http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490603&prodId=prod890007a

£32.50..hmm..pricier than I'd hoped for.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490603&prodId=prod890005a

...hmm... yeah, give that a miss perhaps

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490603&prodId=prod860002a

..they'll come in handy then..

And last but not least..

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1490603&prodId=prod890006a

Sweet.

It's cool that they're releasing that pack of old Chaos Marines, but 33 bucks, sheesh. Bloodcrushers are pricier than I expected too.

Yeah... (sarcasm).. the Traitors of Chaos (on the US site)..

$33 for 4 metal chaos marines? Get real!

Crushers at $54? Nope..

Ninja'd by 15 seconds!

Hahahaha! £20 for four one piece sculpts from 20 years ago. Oh my sides! Those Juggers are really nice, not £11 each nice obviously.

... and I just started a OTS army

That Blood Crusher price...crushed any hope I had of buying them and starting a Daemon Army.

So, I guess, thanks GW!

Not sure why the hate on the BloodCrusher price. If you bought three now it would be $90. So saving almost $40 is still pretty good in my book.

Some Chaos Space Marines really aged well

Those chaos marines are funny.. Buy some of our worst sculpts (compared to now) for more than 10 of the better versions!!

I was hoping the crushers would be 40$ but as said even 53 is better than the current

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1430057&prodId=prod890006a
Hey hes from the dark crystal movie!
And 33$ for 4 marines F#!k that

JHall wrote:Not sure why the hate on the BloodCrusher price. If you bought three now it would be $90. So saving almost $40 is still pretty good in my book.

i think it's because you should compare them to other plastic kits and not the now OOP metal ones. are three bloodcrushers really worth $10 more than three of the recently released killa kans for the orks? they have about the same size, same amount of parts/complexity, etc. there is something to be said about having consistent pricing for like items. unfortunately for consumers, GW is counting on your reaction more than the other.

Some people will complain about anything. Almost 50% off the current price and it's just to much.....

Did anyone actually think the bloodcrushers would be anything but fifty bucks? That's what we've been saying for months.

I must admit, I didn't realize that the metal Blood Crusher price was so high!

So, I guess it is an OK deal, but it still seems a bit dear for 3 models!

$53 for three is a deal compared to $25 a piece for things like sentinels.

it's a high margin item for GW, no doubt.

Hulksmash wrote:Some people will complain about anything. Almost 50% off the current price and it's just to much.....

QFT. Tyranid players pay $44.50 for 3 Raveners. That's only around a 25% discount from the metals and they're much smaller models than Bloodcrushers.

Don't get me wrong -- GW pricing has gone bonkers lately, and I can understand balking at $53 for 3 plastic models. But *relatively speaking* these aren't that bad.

I like how the 40k "Traitors of Chaos" (the 4 marine set) is also listed in the fantasy pre-order section. Does that mean we'll be able to field them in fantasy too? har har har.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1350004&rootCatGameStyle=

As I pointed out yesterday, at a minimum the Bloodcrushers were going to be $44.50 because that's the price for all of the other recent new kits that contain three monsters on one plastic sprue. I was expecting anything from $44.50 to $57.75, another common price point these days, so $53.75, while not cheap, is not unexpected or unreasonable given the price structure of existing and similar sized plastic kits. I'm not sure how anyone could have been expecting anything so significantly lower than $53.75 that this price announcement kills the idea of buying them now as opposed to expecting them to be too expensive for their taste even before the announcement.

yeah,
I think the price is good.

We can't compare them to KillaKans since there are more ork players out there power of economics blah blah bla....

Panic...

I think you all should remember that they are usable for 2 systems, fantasy AND 40K. Players have to be charged for the extra compatibility as well as the model itself. GW is charging you for convenience. That and they know that if a player plays both systems, they will simply magnetize the bottom for easy base swaps. That's what I'd do.

Hulksmash is right: it is almost 50% off-this is a far better deal than GW could have done. They could have made it $75 for a box-$25 each. Right now they're $17 each and cheaper than fiends of slaanesh! Also in favor of a plastic fiends box now for $44.25...

Hmm, the crushers are nice, real nice, I want to buy a box to build one for fun and the rest for kitbashing with but I think I'll have to wait now.

Players have to be charged for the extra compatibility

Juggernauts as s concept have been around for about 20 years. Making the newest ones compatible for two game systems consists simply of including square and round bases in the box. Compatibility for two systems in this case increases the profit on the set significantly, not the cost. I'm still not complaining about the price, just debunking that argument.

Gobstomp420 wrote:I think you all should remember that they are usable for 2 systems, fantasy AND 40K. Players have to be charged for the extra compatibility as well as the model itself. GW is charging you for convenience. That and they know that if a player plays both systems, they will simply magnetize the bottom for easy base swaps. That's what I'd do.

That is a silly rational. No doubt its what GW is doing, but its silly on their part. The "conveniance" is an illusion. It only applies if you play both games. Compared to similarly sized and capable products of similar design effort, this is over priced. Its this sort of price gouging that keeps me from starting new armies.

aka_mythos wrote:Its this sort of price gouging that keeps me from starting new armies.

Aye, same here. I wonder if these unacceptable prices arereally worth it for GW in the end.

Just buy the damn Bloodcrushers off a discount retailer and, voila, same price as the Killa Kans. I like the Fateweaver model (I know that's a mixed opinion) but doubt I'd ever use him.

When the current metal Bloodcrushers were first released they were $22 US each and have been hiked in price since then to near $25 and then $30. Even at the original $22 each the $53.75 per box of 3 is still cheaper per model. The current plastic ones are certainly not cheap, but they represent a far better deal than the current metal ones at either their current price or even the original one from two years ago.

To me the Fateweaver model is the problematic new Daemon release. After 20 years in the hobby I've grown weary of the time and effort it takes to pin these large, expensive metal miniatures and their fragility and the ease with which their paint gets damaged are also annoyances I'd rather avoid at this point. GW has gone mostly plastic in the past few years and so have I. I have no interest in buying another large, fragile and expensive metal model.

WOW !! $33 for 4 old Chaos Space Marines ?!!

I'm sure GW can do a better product-demand analysis than watching random Ebay auctions !!!

You can rationalize it all you want. The prices are still too high.

WTF? Them marines are a complete rip off. 4 of them from seperate legions. heck i can buy the orginal casts on ebay for pennies compared to that. what good is one of each going to do us? It should be 4 per legion or sold seperately. I wish the good old days were here when you could buy parts seperately.Then that set might have a chance. Want my opinion dont waste your time or money.

Skarboy wrote:Just buy the damn Bloodcrushers off a discount retailer and, voila, same price as the Killa Kans. I like the Fateweaver model (I know that's a mixed opinion) but doubt I'd ever use him.

If I'm buying at a discount, the Killa Kans will also be cheaper.

I think the 4 classic Chaos Marines are priced right.

Are you going to use them to bulk out your Chaos Space Marine army? No.

Are you going to buy them because they tickle your nostalgia bone? Most likely.

In other words, they are a super luxury item in a luxury hobby. GW doesn't expect 90% of hobbyists to buy them, but the "old school" players who want them are likely to pay a premium for them.

Good gaming!

Zoned

If thats the case i got several of the berserker one ill sell you.The rest of the stuff is great and reasonibly priced.except the blood crusher which should be 5 per box. Fateweaver awesome! ill buy one and the mounted daemonettes.

Noisy_Marine wrote:You can rationalize it all you want. The prices are still too high.

And you can set the price at whatever you want. Someone will still complain that it is too high.

Noisy_Marine wrote:You can rationalize it all you want. The prices are still too high.

the prices have always been really high, you knew this getting into the hobby

'you spent how much on a plastic airplane?'

col. krazy kenny wrote:WTF? Them marines are a complete rip off. 4 of them from seperate legions. heck i can buy the orginal casts on ebay for pennies compared to that. what good is one of each going to do us? It should be 4 per legion or sold seperately. I wish the good old days were here when you could buy parts seperately.Then that set might have a chance. Want my opinion dont waste your time or money.

This.

A whole squad of those TS wouls sell like hot cakes. I'd certainly be buying them if they split them by god.

All those classic Chaos Marines are still great sculpts to me. Fortunately, I bought three of the four of those sculpts when they were new and made of lead and sold two to a blister. I bought one blister of each of them just to collect them, much as they are being marketed now.

When they put those models back in the pewter bitz range a few years ago I got enough of the Thousand Sons models to make a whole squad. They are beautiful models with intricate detail all over them. Simply add a Sorcerer and you have a current Codex Chaos Marines Thousand Sons squad.

With all these plastics coming out, I wonder if they'll do a battle force box for each of the powers??

Plus it's funny to see that their website has gone haywire!

I don't know why anyone still complains about GW pricing. I like the high prices and the price rises. The price rises mean my models appreciate in value. Those 10 OOP 1k Sons I bought years ago for $20 well now they're double or even triple in value. I can't wait until GW raises prices to the point I'm making a profit when I sell an army at a discount.

I was gonna buy 4 boxes of blood crushers at 45, I just don't see the value at 54. I think I'm going to pass, and I never pass.

Funny story this. I walked into an old, out of touch gaming store the other day and bought some GW figures at half price. The store wasn't having a sale or trying to get rid of the figures or anything. They were at half price because the store owner had been purchased by the store in 2003 and hadn't been repriced in seven years.

That's what those four metal Chaos Marines is like, in reverse. I'd feel nostalgia, but I already have the ones out of that set that I want, with the original backpacks.

I was gonna buy 4 boxes of blood crushers at 45, I just don't see the value at 54.

I guess for some people they should be called "Joycrushers' or "Budgetcrushers". $44.50 would have been a lot more palatable, but I don't think the $53.75 price is a complete deal-breaker. On the other hand, for those who want multiple sets I'm sure they'll be looking for deals from discounters. At that price a 10% to 20% discount will be significant savings.

Gobstomp420 wrote:I think you all should remember that they are usable for 2 systems, fantasy AND 40K. Players have to be charged for the extra compatibility as well as the model itself. GW is charging you for convenience. That and they know that if a player plays both systems, they will simply magnetize the bottom for easy base swaps. That's what I'd do.

Yeah, personally I'd just stick them on the square bases so they rank up for Warhammer, then use them spaced out for 40k. Never had anyone even comment before, and I'd be very angry with a tournament that penalised me for it (not that i go to many).

Then again, I've had daemons since 2nd ed 40k, where they had square bases in the rulebook and codex pictures.

I rebase for no man.

I have always based my Daemons on square bases and then used them for both game systems. Playing only with friends, it has never been a problem in the near 20 years I've been doing that.

Its to cover the costs of cleaning our oil of your beachs.










I'll get my coat.

col. krazy kenny wrote:If thats the case i got several of the berserker one ill sell you.The rest of the stuff is great and reasonibly priced.except the blood crusher which should be 5 per box. Fateweaver awesome! ill buy one and the mounted daemonettes.

How much?


That being said, the Marines would be better if they came with the original cool backpacks.

I suppose it is our own fault, oil is a big component of plastic. Silly us for making them blow up one of their own rigs.

I really don't care about the prices, yes, they're high, but that just means more business to the discount dealers.

I like the new demon prince, but the traitors thing is just laughable.

Anyone who doesn't just ebay the traitor models is being stupid, GW are stretching my goodwill they have managed to get again with that price for such old models.

BrassScorpion wrote:

I was gonna buy 4 boxes of blood crushers at 45, I just don't see the value at 54.

I guess for some people they should be called "Joycrushers' or "Budgetcrushers". $44.50 would have been a lot more palatable, but I don't think the $53.75 price is a complete deal-breaker. On the other hand, for those who want multiple sets I'm sure they'll be looking for deals from discounters. At that price a 10% to 20% discount will be significant savings.

Just remember anytime you get significant savings on a discount your spending a significant amount of money

JHall wrote:Not sure why the hate on the BloodCrusher price. If you bought three now it would be $90. So saving almost $40 is still pretty good in my book.

That's what I'm saying.
At less than $19 US each (excluding discounts from online retailers), I call it one heck of a good price! If I played Daemons, I'd definitely spam Crushers, now!

Eric

The CSM release is no different than the "Armors of the Ages" or whatever that bitz pack is called. I'd be interested if I could buy certain variants, but I'm not buying them packaged as is.

What we really need is some kind of "bitz service" that sells parts individually...

Asherian Command wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1430057&prodId=prod890006a
Hey hes from the dark crystal movie!
And 33$ for 4 marines F#!k that

Friends, Gelflings, yes! Friends!

In all seriousness, talk of relative discounts does have some relevance; a bit of a point. But which one of you have recieved pay increases in the past 5 years to keep up wit hte price increases in GW models? I know I haven't, and some of my pay raises were friggin steep.

Polonius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Just buy the damn Bloodcrushers off a discount retailer and, voila, same price as the Killa Kans. I like the Fateweaver model (I know that's a mixed opinion) but doubt I'd ever use him.

If I'm buying at a discount, the Killa Kans will also be cheaper.

Yes. Quite the vicious circle. Hey, if they're too expensive, they're too expensive. Either give in and buy them, using a discount retailer to get some break, or don't. If these things don't sell, the price will go down, either from GW lowering them or from being able to pick up cheaper through third parties desperate to unload.

Silly British and Americans complaining about their 'high price' Bloodcrushers.

Really? US$53.75 too much for all the American Daemon fans out there? Would you rather pay US$80 like us Aussies?

Or £32.50 seem like too much for the Poms among us? Would you prefer to pay £52 instead, 'cause that's the Aussie price.



Next time y'all feel like bitching about GW prices, remember what country you're from, then STFU.

Skarboy wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Just buy the damn Bloodcrushers off a discount retailer and, voila, same price as the Killa Kans. I like the Fateweaver model (I know that's a mixed opinion) but doubt I'd ever use him.

If I'm buying at a discount, the Killa Kans will also be cheaper.

Yes. Quite the vicious circle. Hey, if they're too expensive, they're too expensive. Either give in and buy them, using a discount retailer to get some break, or don't. If these things don't sell, the price will go down, either from GW lowering them or from being able to pick up cheaper through third parties desperate to unload.

Has GW EVER lowered a price on a plastic kit, especially because it wasn't selling?

Are the Greatswords still ridiculously priced?

GW lowered the price of the old Tyranid and Ogre Kingdoms battleforce / battalion from $135 (if I remember correctly) to $90 a few years ago.

The Greatswords are pricey but they're also really nice. Since they come in the battalion it's not half bad, though, as you can buy the sprues on eBay for cheap or just buy the battalions.

Blood crushers are cool, everything else,

meh

Old models LOL? At least they could have sold them 4 like models together?

..this is an expensive hobby

This is the kind of stuff that makes me bonkers. I think it proves GW isn't an evil empire (intentionally planning to outdate and charge exorbitant rates for new powerful armies) because how long did Bloodcrusher units take to come out as a unit after the codex made them incredibly powerful?

4 years?

How about a Jetbike Seer Council?
Or a Tyrannofex? or Swarmlord?
Nob Bikers?

I really like all of GWs work even if the armies don't interest me, but isn't it amazing that for all the controversy they catch for supposedly being money grubbers, etc. that they always write rules for models they don't sell?

I think that's painfully ironic, for a miniatures sales company.

Almost as bad as not selling bits.

...

rant=on

Even though the new models are cool, the worst part of this is people are now going to build Bloodcrusher Fateweaver spam lists more easily.

Which IMO is a complete atrocity in 40k and shouldn't even exist (its the inexplicably flufless meta game optimal demon army).

Put the demons back in the Chaos list!

Stop putting Tzeentch and Khorne together!

As an old hat player of nearly 20 years, the current game is atrociously out of canon!

/rant

I don't think Fatecrusher is the best Daemon list. Not by a long shot. I ran Daemons, quite successfully even, for a while and while I think Fateweaver is incredibly useful (almost mandatory for the army) I was always underwhelmed by my Bloodcrushers. They're incredibly slow and can be avoided easily.

I'd rather these new models were a little cheaper, and we got plastic Plaguebearers as well, but on the whole I really like all the models and the prices aren't so bad as to make me not buy them.

Stop putting Tzeentch and Khorne together!

As a proud owner of the original Realm Of Chaos books I can tell you that in early Warhammer lore it is Khorne and Slaanesh that hate each other and Nurgle and Tzeentch are acrimonious to each other. Tzeentch and Khorne were never bitter enemies in the original lore in spite of the Khorne eschews magic lore.

CaseyVa wrote:GW lowered the price of the old Tyranid and Ogre Kingdoms battleforce / battalion from $135 (if I remember correctly) to $90 a few years ago.

That wasn't because they were 'too expensive' though. It was simply to put all of the battle force boxes into the same price bracket, as they were already in the rest of the world.

Skarboy wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Just buy the damn Bloodcrushers off a discount retailer and, voila, same price as the Killa Kans. I like the Fateweaver model (I know that's a mixed opinion) but doubt I'd ever use him.

If I'm buying at a discount, the Killa Kans will also be cheaper.

Yes. Quite the vicious circle. Hey, if they're too expensive, they're too expensive. Either give in and buy them, using a discount retailer to get some break, or don't. If these things don't sell, the price will go down, either from GW lowering them or from being able to pick up cheaper through third parties desperate to unload.

Hey, I really don't care. I buy almost completely used stuff, or I build with tournament winnings. I've got far more stuff to paint then I have time, and I don't play demons.

think Fateweaver is incredibly useful (almost mandatory

I'm not sure what I"m going to do about that then because I really don't want to buy, build or paint another $50 metal model. When I paint the few remaining large metal models I have that's it, it is plastic from here on out for me for large models. I own Skulltaker and the other similarly sized Daemon HQ models, so I guess I'll have to make do with those HQ choices.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Stop putting Tzeentch and Khorne together!

As a proud owner of the original Realm Of Chaos books I can tell you that in early Warhammer lore it is Khorne and Slaanesh that hate each other and Nurgle and Tzeentch are acrimonious to each other. Tzeentch and Khorne were never bitter enemies in the original lore in spite of the Khorne eschews magic lore.

I don't think that has changed, other than playing animosity down overall. Daemons of opposing gods would have to test if they came with a certain distance of eachother or change targets.

Alpharius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Just buy the damn Bloodcrushers off a discount retailer and, voila, same price as the Killa Kans. I like the Fateweaver model (I know that's a mixed opinion) but doubt I'd ever use him.

If I'm buying at a discount, the Killa Kans will also be cheaper.

Yes. Quite the vicious circle. Hey, if they're too expensive, they're too expensive. Either give in and buy them, using a discount retailer to get some break, or don't. If these things don't sell, the price will go down, either from GW lowering them or from being able to pick up cheaper through third parties desperate to unload.

Has GW EVER lowered a price on a plastic kit, especially because it wasn't selling?

Are the Greatswords still ridiculously priced?

Yup, the old 8 man plastic CSM box when it first released. They dropped it from £15 to £12 due to public outcry, hell they even refunded the difference to people that bought it as the higher price if they provided a receipt!

You know whats an even bigger fail than the classic marine price? the fact that the backpacks arent even classic.

My first two words when seeing the price on bloodcrushers: "THE FU$@?!" I mean, GW was starting to look pretty good, having some awesome models and expected to be a decent price. But typical GW business screwed it up.

Augustus wrote:Stop putting Tzeentch and Khorne together!

As an old hat player of nearly 20 years, the current game is atrociously out of canon!

Aside from the 'Khorne & Tzeentch aren't enemies - Khorne and Slaanesh are' line about the canon, the biggest problem you've got here Augustus is that the fluff is arbitrary. Notice how all the Legions went away from Chaos, and how the rivalry between the Chaos Gods is non-existent now. Ever wonder why? Well if you can't field Slaanesh and Khorne together, then a person will pick one, and not buy the other. If you can mix, people will buy both. Limiting list choices = less sales opportunities. The fluff will change to meet whatever GW needs to pimp its new models, or lines that aren't selling well. Meanwhile, all the units that people are using that don't have models yet are essentially GW's 'market research'. If something isn't being used and doesn't yet have a model, then it won't get a model and probably won't make the next Codex. But if people are fielding lots of Hellpit Abominations or Tervigons, then guess who'll be getting new models next? People fielded lots of Fateweaver/Changeling armies, not so much Skarbrand or Ku'Gath. And - oh! - look who just got new model kits. What a shock! I look forward to models of the Doom of Malantai.

And Daemons aren't in the Chaos Codex because having them separate allows for a different product line and more potential sales. Gav Thorpe even said that the 'Daemons' that exist in the 'Chaos' Codex were the only compromise that he could get - those that count the beans wanted no Daemons in the new Chaos book because they wanted two different lines.

None of this points to GW being 'evil', it just points to them being a company, a company who cares about short-term profits and nothing for their actual customers beyond seeing them as the source of said short-term profit. And I assume that Australia must be some sort of Cockney Slang for 'Short-Term Profit', as that's the only damned way to explain our fething prices...

Personally, I like the fact that GW has loosened the ability to use the different Chaos themed models together regardless of cult. I collect them all and have been doing so for 20 years and I never really liked being restricted as far as using them together.

The cheap way they did Armour Through the Ages bugged me. They used the modern backpacks and bolters rather than the older versions. Modern arms I can live with (though that is still being cheap) but if I'm going to pay for a history series then I want it to be accurate or what's the point.
They should have included both the bolter that came before the current 'Godwyn' pattern and the one before that from the RT marines (which was also used on the old rhino).
For the backpacks all they had to do was a RT type which is pretty much what the Sisters of Battle use and the standard one before the current ones came out.

Polonius wrote:$53 for three is a deal compared to $25 a piece for things like sentinels.

it's a high margin item for GW, no doubt.

Actually, it's just GW's way of testing Customer price-sensitivity.

GW did it with the SM Termies, and again with the Empire Greatswords.

If they don't sell well, GW will simply hold price for a few years.

OTOH, if people keep buying at these inflated prices, if that's what the market will bear, then don't expect GW to relent on pricing...

BrassScorpion wrote:Personally, I like the fact that GW has loosened the ability to use the different Chaos themed models together regardless of cult. I collect them all and have been doing so for 20 years and I never really liked being restricted as far as using them together.

I guess that part was OK, but splitting the Chaos armies into 3 separate, never to mix armies is what really ticked me off.

I didn't 'give in' and buy 2 new armies either...

BrassScorpion wrote:Personally, I like the fact that GW has loosened the ability to use the different Chaos themed models together regardless of cult. I collect them all and have been doing so for 20 years and I never really liked being restricted as far as using them together.

Whereas some of us liked playing to the fluff, and didn't like it being re-written simply to generate more sales due to having less restrictions.

The Blood crushers models look really cool with the black paintjob, rather than the typical red. While I had expected the box to be between $44.50 and $49.50 US, $53.75 US is still alot cheaper than the metal versions. Additionally, the new models have unique poses and different "horns" from one another, which may not matter to some, but I really think it makes a big difference in the appearance of the models as a unit. Right now, I'm torn because I had put aside the idea of a Khorne daemon army in favor of a World Eaters army, just because I find the lack of wargear/gift options a little boring (not that CSMs really has tons of options, but what is a diehard Chaos player to do these days? ), however the Bloodcrushers are really causing me to debate that decision because they look really freaking cool!.

While I do agree the cost for the set of 3 is still high, I think like most gamers I'm going to be looking for a bargain on such expensive models and there are no shortage of websites offering up to 20% off on GW merchandise. With the 20% off the box comes to $43.00 US, which is reasonable enough, for me at least.


As for the rest of the daemons releases, they look nice enough, but not really my cup of tea. Not that I was expecting it, but I'd have loved to see plastic plaguebearers, but alas, no love for Nurgle this time around.

At least be thankful that Plaguebearers are one-piece models. Of all the metal standard Daemons, they were the least offensive when it came to ease-of-build.

Fair enough, but I'm just not really a fan of the current plaguebearers. I've owned some in the past and just don't really like them. In fact, I'd be happier if FW would just make resin versions, as I like Mark Bedford's Nurgle sculpts better then anything GW has produced. Not that I expect that to happen, but it would be nice. Right now the best option, in my opinion, is converting WFB Ghouls with greenstuff. Combine them with these heads, which I think look much better then the GW plaguebearers and it's a much better alternative(and cheaper) to the current metals. Anyway, I don't want to go to far off topic with plaguebearer discussion. I need to go do some list building and see if World Eaters or Khorne Daemons will be cheaper financially and then make a tough decision. At least I'm set on which Chaos God I'm giving my allegiance to.

Whereas some of us liked playing to the fluff, and didn't like it being re-written simply to generate more sales due to having less restrictions.

People who want to restrict their army lists based on 40K lore are still free to do so, while those of us who never liked it that much are now free of those restrictions. It's win-win.

guess that part was OK, but splitting the Chaos armies into 3 separate,

It's a cyclic thing. When I started all Chaos was mixed together, then they split some of it, then allowed mixing again and now it's split. Hopefully more mixing will be allowed again in the future. I agree with you, I don't like the forced split. It would be better if you could play mixed or split as desired.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Whereas some of us liked playing to the fluff, and didn't like it being re-written simply to generate more sales due to having less restrictions.

People who want to restrict their army lists based on 40K lore are still free to do so, while those of us who never liked it that much are now free of those restrictions. It's win-win.

guess that part was OK, but splitting the Chaos armies into 3 separate,

It's a cyclic thing. When I started all Chaos was mixed together, then they split some of it, then allowed mixing again and now it's split.

No, it's Win-Lose, because certain players no longer get to impose their rules of how the game must be played nor inflict their limitations on how armies must be composed on other players who don't share the exact same vision.

Meh, it's just different kinds of splits, trading splits by Marks for splits by Units.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:Personally, I like the fact that GW has loosened the ability to use the different Chaos themed models together regardless of cult. I collect them all and have been doing so for 20 years and I never really liked being restricted as far as using them together.

Whereas some of us liked playing to the fluff, and didn't like it being re-written simply to generate more sales due to having less restrictions.

Are they penalizing you for playing by the fluff? No! All it does is allow for more gaming options!

BrassScorpion wrote:People who want to restrict their army lists based on 40K lore are still free to do so, while those of us who never liked it that much are now free of those restrictions. It's win-win.

Klawz wrote:Are they penalizing you for playing by the fluff? No! All it does is allow for more gaming options!

The idea that following the fluff is somehow 'restrictive' is, of course, an ass-backwards way of looking at it, as it is a terrible method for writing rules. I don't know how many times I have to restate this, but here goes:

Fluff and Power should be congruous. The more fluffy your army, the powerful your army should be. Want to mix Khorne and Slaanesh? That's fine. But if you take a Khorne-Only army you should gain a tangible in-game benefit for doing so ie. the more you follow the fluff, the more the game should reward you.

Believe it or not, both Jervis and Gav Thrope have stated that people often don't remember the small penalties that come with lists and units (Open Topped Vypers, Mastery Tests on Daemon Weapons), but they do remember the small rules that benefit them (free Aspiring Champions for having Sacred Number units is a good example). For this very reason it makes sense to treat following the fluff with army construction as a benefit, giving actual bonuses and advantages to armies that follow the fluff. And I'm not just talking about Chaos, I'm talking about any army. Want to take Vulkan and Shrike in the same list? Ok, fine, but you should get neither option for Chapter Tactics, where as a proper Raven Guard army should be the only one to benefit from Shrike's rules (and I'll leave the idiotic need for special characters aside for this treatise).

Should you be restricted to only fielding God-specific forces? I don't think so. But you should be rewarded for playing all-Khorne or all-Tzeentch rather than just finding the best bits of each and conjuring up a NetDeck list (Fatecrusher! YAY!).

Cadaver wrote: (not that CSMs really has tons of options, but what is a diehard Chaos player to do these days? )

Wait and hope? Play other games in the meantime?

Us canadians are suffering the most with the bloodcrusher prices. They're 64.75 for 3! WTF!?!?!?! Ah well, it's better than 99$ for 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:People who want to restrict their army lists based on 40K lore are still free to do so, while those of us who never liked it that much are now free of those restrictions. It's win-win.

Klawz wrote:Are they penalizing you for playing by the fluff? No! All it does is allow for more gaming options!

The idea that following the fluff is somehow 'restrictive' is, of course, an ass-backwards way of looking at it, as it is a terrible method for writing rules. I don't know how many times I hate to restate this, but here goes:

Fluff and Power should be congruous. The more fluffy your army, the powerful your army should be. Want to mix Khorne and Slaanesh? That's fine. But if you take a Khorne-Only army you should gain a tangible in-game benefit for doing so ie. the more you follow the fluff, the more the game should reward you.

Believe it or not, both Jervis and Gav Thrope have stated that people often don't remember the small penalties that come with lists and units (Open Topped Vypers, Mastery Tests on Daemon Weapons), but they do remember the small rules that benefit them (free Aspiring Champions for having Sacred Number units is a good example). For this very reason it makes sense to treat following the fluff with army construction as a benefit, giving actual bonuses and advantages to armies that follow the fluff. And I'm not just talking about Chaos, I'm talking about any army. Want to take Vulkan and Shrike in the same list? Ok, fine, but you should get neither option for Chapter Tactics, where as a proper Raven Guard army should be the only one to benefit from Shrike's rules (and I'll leave the idiotic need for special characters aside for this treatise).

Should you be restricted to only fielding God-specific forces? I don't think so. But you should be rewarded for playing all-Khorne or all-Tzeentch rather than just finding the best bits of each and conjuring up a NetDeck list (Fatecrusher! YAY!).

This. This would be terrific!

H.B.M.C. wrote: Fluff and Power should be congruous. The more fluffy your army, the powerful your army should be. Want to mix Khorne and Slaanesh? That's fine. But if you take a Khorne-Only army you should gain a tangible in-game benefit for doing so ie. the more you follow the fluff, the more the game should reward you.

This, this, a thousand times, this. If you want to mix factions, there should be no penalty - there are literally limitless reasons why the aims and motivations of Slaneesh and Khorne might coincide temporarily, fluffwise - but the game would be markedly improved if there were bonuses for "pure" armies. And not just Chaos, either. Rather then remove allies from DH armies, there should be a bonus to a pure Sisters/GK/etc type army.

Or rather than adding more rules ('cos as we know GW is really good at that... ) why not just make it more expensive to mix 'n' match?

For example - in chaos armies if your general has mark of <insert greater power here> then he can have units with the same mark, unmarked or undivided. If your general has mark of chaos undivided, he's one of those rare individuals who has risen to power without being tied to one particular patron deity. Such a general can have they want in an army, but make MoCU a very expensive upgrade for the general concerned...

Munch Munch! wrote:Us canadians are suffering the most with the bloodcrusher prices. They're 64.75 for 3! WTF!?!?!?! Ah well, it's better than 99$ for 3.

Yeah, more of GW's Screw Canada pricing.

http://www.darksphere.co.uk

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk

Something is wrong when an individual can get them shipped to their door for less than a game store pays for them at wholesale.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Silly British and Americans complaining about their 'high price' Bloodcrushers.

Really? US$53.75 too much for all the American Daemon fans out there? Would you rather pay US$80 like us Aussies?

Or £32.50 seem like too much for the Poms among us? Would you prefer to pay £52 instead, 'cause that's the Aussie price.



Next time y'all feel like bitching about GW prices, remember what country you're from, then STFU.

Frozen, you just made me realize that Canadians can get better deals that Americans

Wow, Wayland is actually significantly cheaper to order from than The Warstore....Yay for the British pound being so close to the dollar for a change

Gobstomp420 wrote:Players have to be charged for the extra compatibility as well as the model itself. GW is charging you for convenience.

Only GW's fanbase is rabid enough to try and justify a surcharge for the privilege of using their product.

Ouze wrote:This, this, a thousand times, this. If you want to mix factions, there should be no penalty - there are literally limitless reasons why the aims and motivations of Slaneesh and Khorne might coincide temporarily, fluffwise - but the game would be markedly improved if there were bonuses for "pure" armies. And not just Chaos, either. Rather then remove allies from DH armies, there should be a bonus to a pure Sisters/GK/etc type army.

Good thinking! Glad to see I'm not crazy and there are some people who can see beyond "You just want Iron Warriors back/Daemon Bomb back/[insert other idiotic assumption here] back!" whenever I talk about restoring options, how the Books of Chaos were not restrictive, and how a game with more options and more rewards for playing the fluff would actually be of great benefit to 40K as a whole.

Chimera_Calvin wrote:For example - in chaos armies if your general has mark of <insert greater power here> then he can have units with the same mark, unmarked or undivided. If your general has mark of chaos undivided, he's one of those rare individuals who has risen to power without being tied to one particular patron deity. Such a general can have they want in an army, but make MoCU a very expensive upgrade for the general concerned...

A unit's worth what a unit's worth. Making any unit more expensive (or cheaper for that matter) in certain situations or in certain combinations defeats the purpose of a comparison-based points system. Besides - you're doing exactly what I said not to do - giving a negative for not playing the fluff. No negatives for not playing the fluff - only positives for playing the fluff.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Chimera_Calvin wrote:For example - in chaos armies if your general has mark of <insert greater power here> then he can have units with the same mark, unmarked or undivided. If your general has mark of chaos undivided, he's one of those rare individuals who has risen to power without being tied to one particular patron deity. Such a general can have they want in an army, but make MoCU a very expensive upgrade for the general concerned...

A unit's worth what a unit's worth. Making any unit more expensive (or cheaper for that matter) in certain situations or in certain combinations defeats the purpose of a comparison-based points system. Besides - you're doing exactly what I said not to do - giving a negative for not playing the fluff. No negatives for not playing the fluff - only positives for playing the fluff.

Yes! This!
+1

George Spiggott wrote:Hahahaha! £20 for four one piece sculpts from 20 years ago. Oh my sides!

They don't even supply the correct backpacks for these 'classic' figures. They were nothing special then and they're nothing special now so why they are worth £5 each is a mystery.

It proves that GW can get the old moulds out when it suits them. Now perhaps they would like to start recasting old figures that are actually in short supply and in high demand on eBay?

Like maybe putting up the Necromunda sculpts they no longer sale back up.

Noisy_Marine wrote:

Cadaver wrote: (not that CSMs really has tons of options, but what is a diehard Chaos player to do these days? )

Wait and hope? Play other games in the meantime?

Wait and hope I guess. I don't even have an army currently. I sold my Death Guard last year. I'm not big enough of a tabletop gamer that I need to go to other game systems. I play 40k(or you know, I played) because I like the universe. No other game I've looked at really interests me, and that even includes WFB. I have always played 40k and the 40k Specialist Games, and nothing else. If there's nothing that interests me with 40k, I'd just stick to video games.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:People who want to restrict their army lists based on 40K lore are still free to do so, while those of us who never liked it that much are now free of those restrictions. It's win-win.

Klawz wrote:Are they penalizing you for playing by the fluff? No! All it does is allow for more gaming options!

The idea that following the fluff is somehow 'restrictive' is, of course, an ass-backwards way of looking at it, as it is a terrible method for writing rules. I don't know how many times I have to restate this, but here goes:

Fluff and Power should be congruous. The more fluffy your army, the powerful your army should be. Want to mix Khorne and Slaanesh? That's fine. But if you take a Khorne-Only army you should gain a tangible in-game benefit for doing so ie. the more you follow the fluff, the more the game should reward you.

Believe it or not, both Jervis and Gav Thrope have stated that people often don't remember the small penalties that come with lists and units (Open Topped Vypers, Mastery Tests on Daemon Weapons), but they do remember the small rules that benefit them (free Aspiring Champions for having Sacred Number units is a good example). For this very reason it makes sense to treat following the fluff with army construction as a benefit, giving actual bonuses and advantages to armies that follow the fluff. And I'm not just talking about Chaos, I'm talking about any army. Want to take Vulkan and Shrike in the same list? Ok, fine, but you should get neither option for Chapter Tactics, where as a proper Raven Guard army should be the only one to benefit from Shrike's rules (and I'll leave the idiotic need for special characters aside for this treatise).

Should you be restricted to only fielding God-specific forces? I don't think so. But you should be rewarded for playing all-Khorne or all-Tzeentch rather than just finding the best bits of each and conjuring up a NetDeck list (Fatecrusher! YAY!).

H.B.M.C. a man after my own heart.


I rather like the 4 pack of the older models. I rather enjoy seeing models that have no real use other then to look cool. The familers look neat as well. I have the first set they made and was fun to paint and I imagine these will be as well.

And to add to everyone else the bloodcrushers are very nice. I may get a box just to build and paint as well.

I'm really annoyed. Kairos wasn't a suprise for me, but the Bloodcrushers? WTF!

Buying 3 of the old metel bloodcrushers would be 54£! without icon , champion and instrument , any way i am going to buy them of total wargamer .

The traitors of chaos are nice for a collector, bit on the expensive side, but £5 for a metal model is roughly right. hope they are available for a while, will prob pick some up in time.

I'm reminded of the old cavalry, when it went from $10 per model to a box of 8 for $35.

I guess GW got smart, not to do like this.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm reminded of the old cavalry, when it went from $10 per model to a box of 8 for $35.

I guess GW got smart, not to do like this.

Either that, or we got dumb!

Of course, they're now $15 each (Dragon Prince), so you look at paying $35 for 8 (Silver Helm).

The $30 Bloodcrusher is a Character, then 3 metal Bloodcrushers should be only $75 ($25 each, discounting the character bump).

If $120 metal cav = $35 plastic cav, then a $75 metal BC set should be a $25 plastic box, not $54. Which is how it's designed and sprued, taking the same 3-panel sprue as the Daemonettes and Bloodletters.

But hey, if people are going to pay the $54, the go GW!

So, they go from £18 each with no options, to £11 each with all possible options, made from a material thats 1,000x easier to convert and work with.
They will balance alot better now due to 2 point basing in plastic (2 contact points on them in metal was evil)

All in all, i see people buying them despite the price.
All i can say is, they are better than kanz IMO, they look great, allow for easy converting, and in general the kit is well designed.

Im still going with the origional plan of getting 24 of them, even if they are a few £ more than expected.

@johndwang

Except you got the amount that standard BC's cost. They were 29.50 before they took them off the website. And comparing standard cav w/monstrous cav is also not an even comparison. Basically they went down between 40%-45%. And that doesn't count the fact that you get the command models now.

@hs: $29.50 is $30.

Standard cav is 8 per box (at least 4 sprue panels, often 5 or 6 sprue panels) vs 3 monstrous cav (only 3 sprue panels).

So even at $25 for 3 BCs, you're getting ripped off when the standard cav shows you should get 5 or 6 BCs for $35/$40, paying an equivalent price per sprue panel.


Also, it'd be nice if you simply referred to me as "John" or "JHDD", rather than mangling my name. Thanks!

So you think that GW should give you over a 66% discount because they shifted it to plastic? Your probably never gonna be happy John. It's not a core/special choice. It's a limited number fielded unit. More 40k guys are gonna pick this up than fantasy so compare it to KK's or Terminators which while it is more expensive it isn't by much.

So what your saying is alot of things should be cheaper john.

For a tactical unit of Legion of the damned it costs £48
For a tac squad that has the same, but more options its £22.50.


You cant compare units/models that are nowhere near the same.
To be honest, its good enough they are cheaper, let alone by this much.


Also, sprue panels mean nothing john.
Clanrats come in 20 per box, and have 2 panels.
Plague monks come in 20 per box and have 4 panels. (+ more parts)
Both units cost the same.

I think that GW can charge whatever they like, and that they're charging an excessive amount.

Silver Helms aren't core - they're special, and 8 for $35, and they're not cross-sold to 40k.

I won't be buying them, just like I refused to buy the Terminators at $50, and I refuse to buy Greatswords or other clearly overpriced models.

just like I refused to buy the Terminators at $50

So did I, yet I have massive amounts of them, Imperial and Chaos, metal and plastic.

Certain sets I buy at the local store to support it, but the more expensive sets, especially ones of which I want to have multiples, for those I look for deals as do I believe most "veteran" hobbyists.

porkuslime wrote:Yeah... (sarcasm).. the Traitors of Chaos (on the US site)..

$33 for 4 metal chaos marines? Get real!

Those are 4 OOP collectors range.....It's like $8 each.... I see these on ebay for $10 to $14 each used.....

spartanlegion wrote:

porkuslime wrote:Yeah... (sarcasm).. the Traitors of Chaos (on the US site)..

$33 for 4 metal chaos marines? Get real!

Those are 4 OOP collectors range.....It's like $8 each.... I see these on ebay for $10 to $14 each used.....

The ones you see on eBay for $10 to $14 are the ones that don't actually sell. The prices for the ones that actually sell are significantly cheaper.

Fateweaver in metal? I'll give it a miss...

jamunition wrote:Fateweaver in metal?

You were expecting a Greater Daemon - and a Special Character no less - to be in plastic?

Fateweaver was always going to be in metal, it's the rule with SC's as H.B.M.C. said, however I think this business with the Bloodcrushers is getting silly, they are £18 each now and will be about £10.80 each shortly. quite a saving in my books! Not to mention the cross-system compatability, ease of assembly and more options etc.

Then again, if they put £5 in a box and charged £1 for it, people would still moan.

P4NC4K3 wrote:Fateweaver was always going to be in metal, it's the rule with SC's as H.B.M.C. said, however I think this business with the Bloodcrushers is getting silly, they are £18 each now and will be about £10.80 each shortly. quite a saving in my books! Not to mention the cross-system compatability, ease of assembly and more options etc.

Then again, if they put £5 in a box and charged £1 for it, people would still moan.

The "Dakka Dakka will complain about everything" meme is more moan worthy, at this point.

People (myself included!) may react instinctively at first, but in the end, if it is a ridiculous price, it won't sell.

I'm still wondering how well the Goldswords performed...

JohnHwangDD wrote:I think that GW can charge whatever they like, and that they're charging an excessive amount.

Silver Helms aren't core - they're special, and 8 for $35, and they're not cross-sold to 40k.

I won't be buying them, just like I refused to buy the Terminators at $50, and I refuse to buy Greatswords or other clearly overpriced models.

Price for Silver Helms was set when they were core.

Picked up some paint and basing material at my local store and I saw they got in all the preorders. My heart was so broken when I saw the Daemon Prince and could not buy it, the owner could definitely tell as he said they will be on sale August 7th and he'll reserve me one then. :( I want it now.

Want one plastic Jugger to convert into a Taurus for my Space Marine Commander to ride into battle.

Well surely the whole point of GW prices to offset the discount retailers?

They know the discounters will sell low so they set a retail price that takes that into account.

Big P wrote:Well surely the whole point of GW prices to offset the discount retailers?

They know the discounters will sell low so they set a retail price that takes that into account.

I very much doubt that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Big P wrote:Well surely the whole point of GW prices to offset the discount retailers?

They know the discounters will sell low so they set a retail price that takes that into account.

I very much doubt that.

GW doesn't feel much of a direct impact from discount retailers. The discount retailer gives GW the same margin as any other retailer. The only impact discount retailers have on GW's profit is when a player buys from the discount retailer instead of directly from GW. Whether you buy from a non-GW non-discount store or a discount retailer, GW gets the same amount of money per box.

Alpharius wrote:I'm still wondering how well the Goldswords performed...

I got a box of them from an ebay shop for $20, shipped.

I assume the demand isnt there due to the GW price, so I got a good deal.

I got a box of them from an ebay shop for $20, shipped.

The Bestigor plastic set suffers from the same problem, even more so because the army is not as popular as Empire. I have purchased plastic Bestigors through eBay at significant discounts. One set I got for less than half price including the shipping.

I didn't buy any GREATswords as I got enough with the Battalion and Brigade boxes.