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Post by: Kroothawk
Here it is:
Hi There,
In this Newsflash we are pleased to announce that the hotly anticipated update for the Death Korps of Krieg is available to download now! We also have another sneak peek of our Top Secret Space Marine Project …
Thanks,
Ead Brown
Death Korps of Krieg Update Available Now
Imperial Armour author Warwick Kinrade has recently put the finishing touches to an updated version of the Death Korps army list printed in Imperial Armour Volume 5: The Siege of Vraks Part 1 as a free download that you can find here. The document addresses many of the most common questions that we have received from gamers across the world – thanks for all your feedback!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf
The Death Korps rules in all three parts of the Siege of Vraks Trilogy are fully updated, and we have added several options to army list entries including the Death Rider Command Squad, allowing our show only Commissar to be used. The document also includes the Leman Russ variants available in Codex: Imperial Guard. Note that the Armoured Company list published in Imperial Armour Volume 7 is largely unaffected, but any Infantry squad entries should be replaced by those found in the update.
Remember that you can always contact the Forge World Customer Service Team for any rules queries using the telephone numbers below or by e-mailing Forgeworld@games-workshop.co. uk
Exclusive Sneak Peek
Marine Sneak PeakLast week’s MkV ‘Heresy’ pattern power armour helmet has clearly piqued many peoples’ interest. We have been inundated with e-mails and telephone calls, all seeking more details about this Top Secret project – it’s still under lock and key, but our agents have managed to obtain another exclusive work-in-progress glimpse of some of the many forthcoming Space Marine releases that our talented Studio team are working on. Many boffins died to bring us this information, but despite their sacrifice all we can say for now is that it is well and truly set in the 41st Millenium…
Funny tidbit: Even FW misspells the name in their pdf-file name 
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Post by: Kirasu
Last week’s MkV ‘Heresy’ pattern power armour helmet has clearly piqued many peoples’ interest. We have been inundated with e-mails (None of which we would ever consider responding to) and telephone calls,
Just something about forgeworld and "email" cracks me up. I suppose they never claimed to respond to any such emails.
Great stuff tho! Glad to see death korps having a purpose again
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Post by: Alpharius
Forge World will soon be making tons and tons of money!
A MKV and now a MVIII, to go along with the already released MKIV and, admittedly not all that special MKVI?
Wow!
MKII isn't really all that interesting or too different when compared to MKIII, so we probably won't see that mark.
MKI is a bit... odd, and if this is set in the 41st Millenium (and really, we already know it is, and 'when' it is!), MKI suits are definitely NOT still 'around'...
SO...
Hopefully FW will grace us with a 'true' MKVIII and then we're all set!
That is, IF they also do 'full' kits that include the legs too.
Well, until they finally give us Pre-Heresy Terminators too!
Watch the money flow in then!
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Post by: Xanthos
Ohh yes! I´ve been waiting for this way too long, finally my Krieg boys can get back into the fray with a proper codex!
Of course, one that lacks quite a few of the more interesting bits of IG kit, but that´s okay. After all, an army with WS4 has a lot going for it. 
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Post by: Kirasu
Well the list seems cool to me. Being able to take power fists in combined infantry squads is evil, also their heavy weapon squads are only 95 points for 3 lascannons
Being stubborn in close combat is really good also, makes it so you dont have to always combine your squads
The list answered a very serious question for me... I keep thinking to myself "When will I be able to spend 18 pts a model for a stormtrooper? 16 points is way too cheap for a 4+ save, T3 model".. Now my wish has come true!!
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Post by: Xanthos
Yeah, major ouch there, these guys are more expensive than marines, by 3 points!!
And no special weapons at all for the Engineers, so they´re not even close on a substitute for Veterans.
Still, some very cool stuff too, Pfists in combined squads, finally a chance to use that Commissar on horse, that kind of thing.
Oh,and also: Free armylist from FW, wow!!!
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Post by: Absolutionis
The Hades Breaching Drill basically has the Mawloc rules explained in a clear and understandable manner that doesn't bring up any rules questions. Congratulations Forge World.
EDIT: On further reading, the Cyclops rules don't seem to make any sense with using the flamer template centered on the vehicle.
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Post by: Sarge
May have to give this a try. I wish they had kept the mobile artillery pieces in the codex.
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Post by: Xanthos
@Absolutionitis: Where did you see the flamer template mentioned? I may be skipping something, but as far as I can tell, it´s the template for the demo charge that is used, but with no halving of strength...
OT: I also really like the new SM armor variants they´re bringing us, can´t wait to see more!
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Post by: Alpharius
Xanthos wrote:Ohh yes! I´ve been waiting for this way too long, finally my Krieg boys can get back into the fray with a proper codex!
Of course, one that lacks quite a few of the more interesting bits of IG kit, but that´s okay. After all, an army with WS4 has a lot going for it.
Not as much as one with 2 wounds though!
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Post by: tallshortguy
Damn you FW, those MKV helmets are going to be a must buy.
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Post by: Alpharius
What about these here MKIII ones?
Even more of a must buy!
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Post by: Malika2
And there goes Maxmini and Chapterhouse's helmet market...
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Post by: BrookM
If it's just heads, count me out. But if they plan on releasing armour kits with complete suits count me in. 
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Post by: Alpharius
Oh, I don't know about that!
These will, obviously, NOT be anything resembling 'cheap', and the aforementioned companies allow you to buy only the helmets...
They'll take a bit of a hit, but I think they'll still do a brisk business in the helmet market!
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Post by: Lord_Astaroth
Hmm. I must admit I was extremely excited to check out this list, but I am a bit dissapointed. I never played Kreig, but I was hoping on using this list for my current Guard. So what I've noticed was no Stormtroopers, no Valkyries/Vendettas, no Chimeras, no Veteran squads. I'm not sure if they had that before or not, but I know I won't be using them. I think the army looks great though!
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Post by: Chapterhouse
Malika2 wrote:And there goes Maxmini and Chapterhouse's helmet market...
*is that sarcasm?*
Yeah, because, you know, we all like to spend $2.00 on a resin head, wait 6 weeks for it (as opposed to 2-3 weeks I have to deal with at the moment) just because it is Forge World.
But they are Forge World, so they are worth it, right? 
Oh, we arent sitting on our thumbs waiting for FW to release their over priced heresy armors, they will have competition around the same time period as well.
Now if they were coming out with some other things, I might be worried.
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Post by: Little lord Fauntleroy
From the looks of things, the men of Krieg are back. And they are not in a good mood.
Will...not...buy...more ...Forgeworld. Will...resist...
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Post by: Kanluwen
You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
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Post by: Malika2
Chapterhouse wrote:Malika2 wrote:And there goes Maxmini and Chapterhouse's helmet market...
*is that sarcasm?*
Yeah, because, you know, we all like to spend $2.00 on a resin head, wait 6 weeks for it (as opposed to 2-3 weeks I have to deal with at the moment) just because it is Forge World.
But they are Forge World, so they are worth it, right?
Oh, we arent sitting on our thumbs waiting for FW to release their over priced heresy armors, they will have competition around the same time period as well.
Now if they were coming out with some other things, I might be worried.
Many fans went to outside companies such as yourselves to get the bits, but now FW are slowly taking over the stuff the outsiders are producing. Yes you guys will be able to be cheaper, but FW does offer a product which looks superior and it's official. I guess that is what people will be paying for.
Sorry if I came across as a bit of a douchebag, didn't mean to do that, my bad :(
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Post by: Orinoco
Malika2 wrote:And there goes Maxmini and Chapterhouse's helmet market...
and we all know how questionable FW casting can be sometimes.
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Post by: Alpharius
Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
I hope they will be releasing FULL kits, and NOT 'just' chest, helmet, backpacks and shoulder pads.
I want legs, arms and weapons too!
Do you know something we don't?
Or, more likely, have I missed something?
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Post by: Chapterhouse
Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
Kanluwen,
I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).
so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.
Malika2 wrote:Chapterhouse wrote:Malika2 wrote:And there goes Maxmini and Chapterhouse's helmet market...
*is that sarcasm?*
Yeah, because, you know, we all like to spend $2.00 on a resin head, wait 6 weeks for it (as opposed to 2-3 weeks I have to deal with at the moment) just because it is Forge World.
But they are Forge World, so they are worth it, right?
Oh, we arent sitting on our thumbs waiting for FW to release their over priced heresy armors, they will have competition around the same time period as well.
Now if they were coming out with some other things, I might be worried.
Many fans went to outside companies such as yourselves to get the bits, but now FW are slowly taking over the stuff the outsiders are producing. Yes you guys will be able to be cheaper, but FW does offer a product which looks superior and it's official. I guess that is what people will be paying for.
Sorry if I came across as a bit of a douchebag, didn't mean to do that, my bad :(
Yeah you did, but I had a feeling you just typed it out badly. I gave you an out with the *is that sarcasm* remark
Nick
Chapterhousestudios.com
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Post by: ph34r
Chapterhouse wrote:Kanluwen,
I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).
so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.
$24 seems too much to pay for generic armor like Mk6 with boltguns or whatever.
But Mk8?
People will pay $24 for 5 resin/plastic grey knight style models. And as much as I am sure you are proud of your sculptors, they are still very much so outclassed by forgeworld.
Alpharius wrote:I hope they will be releasing FULL kits, and NOT 'just' chest, helmet, backpacks and shoulder pads.
I want legs, arms and weapons too!
Do you know something we don't?
Or, more likely, have I missed something?
Arms, weapons, and legs would probably double the price. I'd rather just keep the plastic bits so that I can get more of the important bits.
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Post by: Gamble
Helmets and torsoes are visible in the pics so they'll very likely be in. At the moment, anything else is wishlisting, unless ofcourse, you hear it from a red shirt .
Hopefully they'll include matching legs with the above components, but then we're looking at a different price point from their other conversion kits. I'll be happy as long as I can get kits with my choice of armor as opposed to 1 kit with 1 or 2 of each mark.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Chapterhouse wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
Kanluwen,
I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).
so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/RED-SCORPIONS-VETERANS-WITH-VETERAN-SERGEANT-HAAS-UPGRADE-PACK.html
You were saying?
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Post by: brettz123
Alpharius wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
I hope they will be releasing FULL kits, and NOT 'just' chest, helmet, backpacks and shoulder pads.
I want legs, arms and weapons too!
Do you know something we don't?
Or, more likely, have I missed something?
Well we don't know that they will be FULL kits but from the pics so far you can tell they are more than just heads. The first pick had an old mark of back pack as well as chest and this pick also has an old mark chest so it will be more than just helmets. Full kit would be nice though.
And actually it is a lot cheaper than $2.00 a head considering in the Red Scorpion kit you get 11 heads, 12 shoulder pads, 11 chest plates (all mk IV), and a power sword for 16 pounds I believe at current conversions rates that is $24.00 for 35 pieces which makes it about what .69 american cents a piece..... which is actually cheaper than you can get stuff other places. Now granted I always order enough stuff to get free shipping but there you have it.
Still a niche for Chapterhouse and maxmini but a good chunk of that is gone now. This stuff looks a lot better than any of the stuff either one of them makes currently and is reasonably priced (they way I buy it and use it makes it cheaper).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chapterhouse wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
Kanluwen,
I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).
so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.
Your wrong it is 11 marines for $24.00 not 5. In the red scorpion set you get enough bits to convert 11 marines. Automatically Appended Next Post: Gamble wrote:Helmets and torsoes are visible in the pics so they'll very likely be in. At the moment, anything else is wishlisting, unless ofcourse, you hear it from a red shirt .
Hopefully they'll include matching legs with the above components, but then we're looking at a different price point from their other conversion kits. I'll be happy as long as I can get kits with my choice of armor as opposed to 1 kit with 1 or 2 of each mark.
I have to agree here it will be disappointing if you can not choose full kits with the same types of armor. I tend to think you will get legs just because it really would be odd not too considering how different the leg styles are on the earlier marks of armor as compared to what is available in the plastic marine set. But if we do get legs the price point will certainly be significantly higher.
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Post by: poipo32
I was hoping they would update the Renegades and Heretics army list too...
25543
Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Kanluwen wrote:Chapterhouse wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
Kanluwen,
I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).
so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/RED-SCORPIONS-VETERANS-WITH-VETERAN-SERGEANT-HAAS-UPGRADE-PACK.html
You were saying?
$26 + $35 to get them to work unless you know a bits site
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Alpharius wrote:Forge World will soon be making tons and tons of money!
A MKV and now a MVIII, to go along with the already released MKIV and, admittedly not all that special MKVI?
Hopefully FW will grace us with a 'true' MKVIII and then we're all set!
Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!
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Post by: RiTides
FW wrote:Many boffins died to bring us this information, but despite their sacrifice all we can say for now is that it is well and truly set in the 41st Millenium…
Boffins!? Come on, FW! If you're going to quote star wars, you gotta get it right...
21664
Post by: poipo32
Alright, time to start making a list.
There is now no reason not to get Krieg army.
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Post by: Alpharius
Not to beat a dead horse, but I will be slightly disappointed if they do NOT include led variants, as they are quite different as you work your way 'backwards' from MKVI.
MKIV legs really 'should' have been included in the "Scorpions" set.
Sure, the price would go up - but so would the awesomeness!
A suit of MKIII armor with MKVI or MKVII legs - it will look a bit odd!
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Post by: redbristles
Am I right in thinking that the Krieg list means that you can use them in "normal" 40K games, by which I mean I don't need to sort of check with my opponent that it's ok to use forgeworld models etc... Just checking before I blow lots of money on them... 
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Post by: Kanluwen
Alpharius wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but I will be slightly disappointed if they do NOT include led variants, as they are quite different as you work your way 'backwards' from MKVI.
MKIV legs really 'should' have been included in the "Scorpions" set.
Sure, the price would go up - but so would the awesomeness!
A suit of MKIII armor with MKVI or MKVII legs - it will look a bit odd!
It's worth noting here and now, to remember that most of the older marks of armor are incomplete and use parts from newer marks alongside the old ones.
Marine Artificers try to keep things the same, but sometimes it's just not possible.
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Post by: ghosty
Wouldnt it be hilarious if they released true scale pre heresy marines
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
ghosty wrote:Wouldnt it be hilarious if they released true scale pre heresy marines
It'd be easier if GW simply shrank the Cadians and Catachans back to 2E size.
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Post by: poipo32
redbristles wrote:Am I right in thinking that the Krieg list means that you can use them in "normal" 40K games, by which I mean I don't need to sort of check with my opponent that it's ok to use forgeworld models etc... Just checking before I blow lots of money on them...
You still have to ask, but considering your entire army is FW, your opponent accepts or doesn't play with you.
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Post by: ph34r
brettz123 wrote:And actually it is a lot cheaper than $2.00 a head considering in the Red Scorpion kit you get 11 heads, 12 shoulder pads, 11 chest plates (all mk IV), and a power sword for 16 pounds I believe at current conversions rates that is $24.00 for 35 pieces which makes it about what .69 american cents a piece..... which is actually cheaper than you can get stuff other places. Now granted I always order enough stuff to get free shipping but there you have it.
Quoted for truth. When your helmet and shoulder pad bits are 50% more expensive than forgeworld bits, something is wrong.
If the various mark torsos are generic and 10 piece, with just torsos and chest plates and maybe backpacks or shoulder pads, more similar to the Red Scorpions kit than the Raven Guard kit, I am sure that I will be buying a whole lot of mk8 armor.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!
I kinda have to agree with DD here - these are the types of things GW should be producing as Direct Only pieces. Sprues of alternate chest/head/shoulder pads should sell like hotcakes. I mean, what always sells out first at the various bitz sites? Company Champion heads/shoulder pads/torsos, Black Templar crusading helms, the helmets from the new Ven Dread - people want Marines like that, so much so that they pay a fortune for a single bit from an entire kit (I should I know, I have about 25+/- Company Champion heads sitting in my bitz box). This is an untapped gold mine for GW, and instead we're getting Forge World's version, which will be expensive, badly cast and take 4 years to arrive.
13518
Post by: Scott-S6
Lord_Astaroth wrote:no Stormtroopers,
That's what grenadiers are.
Lord_Astaroth wrote: no Valkyries/Vendettas, no Veteran squads.
DKoK have never had any of these.
Lord_Astaroth wrote:no Chimeras
Centaurs are fast and open-topped
What they do have is heavy weapons everywhere.
Quad launchers in elite.
Cyclop's in fast attack
towed artillery in heavy support
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
JohnHwangDD wrote:It'd be easier if GW simply shrank the Cadians and Catachans back to 2E size.
2nd Ed metal Catachans were the same size if not bigger than Marines. The DKoK models are to scale with Marines, and it's one of the reasons why 'True Scale' Marines is such a misnomer. Marines are not out of scale - it's the human models that are too big.
13518
Post by: Scott-S6
poipo32 wrote:redbristles wrote:Am I right in thinking that the Krieg list means that you can use them in "normal" 40K games, by which I mean I don't need to sort of check with my opponent that it's ok to use forgeworld models etc... Just checking before I blow lots of money on them...
You still have to ask, but considering your entire army is FW, your opponent accepts or doesn't play with you.
FW hasn't been opponent's consent for a long time.
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Post by: Alpharius
Kanluwen wrote:Alpharius wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but I will be slightly disappointed if they do NOT include led variants, as they are quite different as you work your way 'backwards' from MKVI.
MKIV legs really 'should' have been included in the "Scorpions" set.
Sure, the price would go up - but so would the awesomeness!
A suit of MKIII armor with MKVI or MKVII legs - it will look a bit odd!
It's worth noting here and now, to remember that most of the older marks of armor are incomplete and use parts from newer marks alongside the old ones.
Marine Artificers try to keep things the same, but sometimes it's just not possible.
While true, doesn't it strike as a bit odd then that 'only' the leg armor is failing and not being maintained in all of these sets?
In reality, it is FW being a bit lazy, or some other strange reason, and not sculpting and casting them up!
ph34r wrote:brettz123 wrote:And actually it is a lot cheaper than $2.00 a head considering in the Red Scorpion kit you get 11 heads, 12 shoulder pads, 11 chest plates (all mk IV), and a power sword for 16 pounds I believe at current conversions rates that is $24.00 for 35 pieces which makes it about what .69 american cents a piece..... which is actually cheaper than you can get stuff other places. Now granted I always order enough stuff to get free shipping but there you have it.
Quoted for truth. When your helmet and shoulder pad bits are 50% more expensive than forgeworld bits, something is wrong.
If the various mark torsos are generic and 10 piece, with just torsos and chest plates and maybe backpacks or shoulder pads, more similar to the Red Scorpions kit than the Raven Guard kit, I am sure that I will be buying a whole lot of mk8 armor.
While I'd LOVE for FW to put out a proper MKVIII kit, there is, as of yet, no word that they'll be doing something for the upcoming IA:********* book.
H.B.M.C. wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!
I kinda have to agree with DD here - these are the types of things GW should be producing as Direct Only pieces. Sprues of alternate chest/head/shoulder pads should sell like hotcakes. I mean, what always sells out first at the various bitz sites? Company Champion heads/shoulder pads/torsos, Black Templar crusading helms, the helmets from the new Ven Dread - people want Marines like that, so much so that they pay a fortune for a single bit from an entire kit (I should I know, I have about 25+/- Company Champion heads sitting in my bitz box). This is an untapped gold mine for GW, and instead we're getting Forge World's version, which will be expensive, badly cast and take 4 years to arrive.
No doubt!
GW is seriously missing out on a lot of sales by not doing this.
A plastic sprue with MKIII, MKIV, MKV, MKVI and MKVIII... ah, to dream!
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Post by: Kanluwen
H.B.M.C. wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Based on GW's ability to do limited run sprues like the Defrolla, it's is disapponting that these aren't plastic sprues of a single Mark. If GW sold individual sprues that made converted 10 marines to a "classic" Mark for $20, they would rake in money hand over fist. $120 to field 60 guys in mk.V Heresy armor? Yes!
I kinda have to agree with DD here - these are the types of things GW should be producing as Direct Only pieces. Sprues of alternate chest/head/shoulder pads should sell like hotcakes. I mean, what always sells out first at the various bitz sites? Company Champion heads/shoulder pads/torsos, Black Templar crusading helms, the helmets from the new Ven Dread - people want Marines like that, so much so that they pay a fortune for a single bit from an entire kit (I should I know, I have about 25+/- Company Champion heads sitting in my bitz box). This is an untapped gold mine for GW, and instead we're getting Forge World's version, which will be expensive, badly cast and take 4 years to arrive.
You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.
Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.
GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be " useful" rather than " gak".
1423
Post by: dienekes96
This isn't rocket science. It's a while since I contaminated a dacha thread, but this one looks fun. This is the most obvious moneymaker for GW that we are shockedit hasn't happened. A sprue loaded with chest pieces and/or helmets would make them a ridiculous amount of money for minimal effort. Even a IF/CF sprue would make bank, much less an unaffiliated armor type sprue.
One of the joys of playing Marines is the model-making aspect, via the many kits. They don't need to align the sprues to any sort or release, either. The Orks could benefit from a "variety" sprue as well.
Maybe the great sales of this eventual FW release will make that obvious.
Again, this is obvious.
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Post by: MajorTom11
Sometimes I think they are holding sprues of heresy armor in reserve for a particularly rough year... it is so obvious how well they would sell that I can't rationally imagine it hasn't been thought of and heavily discussed internally yet.
Thing is, GW is slowly eroding their backup fluff and running out of space in their universe in terms of their own established boundaries... Once pre-heresy armor is readily available, they can put out primarch models but then what?? 2 missing legions? At that point, imperial history and it's hints are pretty mined out. So with Heresy and 40k pretty much tapped at that point, they will start having to move the story along in order to have pre-installed minis with this level of excitement and demand. Either that, or it's 50k or Emperor resurrection time!
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Post by: Kanluwen
H.B.M.C. wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.
Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.
GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be " useful" rather than " gak".
You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?
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Post by: the_trooper
So.... about those renegades, FW.
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Post by: Chapterhouse
Kanluwen wrote:Chapterhouse wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You mean like the apparent entire armor kit that the pictures seem to imply, given that the chestplate is also resin?
Or the apparent intention to sell them as conversion kits of 10 Mk. IV/III/Vs, with the same Storm Bolters as the Raven Guard Sternguard kits for 15 GBP?
Yeah. Obviously you've got nothing to worry about...
Kanluwen,
I know you like GW that much (and it seems filling their wallets), but $16 for 5 not 10 marines worth does not lend well to your thoughts that they will sell 10 kits for a measly 15 GBP (living in fantasy world?!).
so thats $24 US for 5 marines worth, not 10.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/RED-SCORPIONS-VETERANS-WITH-VETERAN-SERGEANT-HAAS-UPGRADE-PACK.html
You were saying?
Yet you ignore the most RECENT offering, 5 Ravenguard marines for the same price, I haev a hard time thinking that 5 bolters makes them worth double the price, yet FW thinks so.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I ignore the most recent offering because I haven't actually seen the actual sprues, have you?
The Cadian upgrade kits come with a crapload of stuff in addition to the "upgrade kits for 10 men".
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Post by: Alpharius
Kanluwen wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.
Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.
GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be " useful" rather than " gak".
You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes, it actually did!
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Post by: Kanluwen
Alpharius wrote:Kanluwen wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:Kanluwen wrote:You do have to remember that GW doesn't want to rely on "market research" from bitz sites, and they tend to use FW as a way to test the waters.
Take off the boxing gloves Kan. There's no need to jump in and defend what doesn't need defending.
GW should do market research and should see what people want to buy. In fact, should have used their old bitz service as market research for what people wanted before shutting it down and starting up the new one, that way the current bitz service would be " useful" rather than " gak".
You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes, it actually did!
The only "single pieces" they offered were metal bits. They didn't have a "bits cut from sprue" service like you find at BWbitz or what have you.
Metal bits, though, are arguably far less useful for the most part.
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Post by: Alpharius
Ah, gotcha now!
And very true!
Still, I do miss the old bitz service.
And, the 'other' sites will continue to fill a need.
GW would be smart to do more pre-heresy stuff.
They sneak a bit or two on each new marine release, so they KNOW the demand is there.
Why the big tease and no full release though is beyond me!
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Post by: Kanluwen
Because the demand could backfire.
Look at Squats. There's thousands of people on forums all over who constantly insist "Oh man I would TOTALLY buy everything to make a Squat army!".
How's the profit for the small places who actually do produce Squat stand-ins? If half those people made good on their promise--they'd go from garage companies to actually being competition for GW+Privateer.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Kanluwen wrote: You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?
You mean like single metal weapon arms and heads and so forth? I dunno, but I've got a 1000-page book that suggests otherwise.
Sure, that's unsustatinable across 3 lines of product that is no longer metal bit-based.
But WTF, GW doesn't even sell individual, in-production sprues anymore?
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Post by: Kanluwen
JohnHwangDD wrote:Kanluwen wrote: You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?
You mean like single metal weapon arms and heads and so forth? I dunno, but I've got a 1000-page book that suggests otherwise.
Sure, that's unsustainable across 3 lines of product that is no longer metal bit-based.
But WTF, GW doesn't even sell individual, in-production sprues anymore?
Yeah, I corrected that part about "single metal parts".
Honestly, I have no clue why they no longer do it. Part of the issue was always that they cast things up for orders, which means they have to run the molds longer, etc.
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Post by: endtransmission
Kanluwen wrote:Honestly, I have no clue why they no longer do it. Part of the issue was always that they cast things up for orders, which means they have to run the molds longer, etc.
Don't forget that each kit would have been one or two molds for all the pieces. If only one of those pieces sells through the bitz service, they will have all the other bits stockpiling. Nowadays it would be easier (but still pricey) to create molds of just the bits that sell regularly; if they still did the metal bitz service of course!.
Heck, it would probably make sense if the current plastic kits were split up into separate mini sprues of things like heads, bodies, legs, accessories and weapons allowing for individual sprues to be made and sold.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Well hell, even when the plastic kits did have that kind of split...they weren't able to do it very well.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
Alpharius wrote:While true, doesn't it strike as a bit odd then that 'only' the leg armor is failing and not being maintained in all of these sets?
In reality, it is FW being a bit lazy, or some other strange reason, and not sculpting and casting them up!
An explanation I heard, and do in part believe, is that GW does not want FW to make complete Marines, because they want to keep demand up for the plastic kits. This was idea first started making the rounds when FW's plague marine kit came out, missing the sculpted resin legs it had originally been previewed with. It does make sense, when you think of it.
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Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, I suppose, but it will always bother me that the leg armor isn't 'right' on these older armor variants!
And really, FW supplies a niche market in what is already a niche market.
I can't imagine GW would even notice a drop at all if FW was selling complete resin marines!
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Alpharius wrote:I can't imagine GW would even notice a drop at all if FW was selling complete resin marines!
I'm pretty sure GW doesn't notice in the slightest that FW is selling 2 ranges of complete resin Guardsmen.
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Post by: wyomingfox
Alpharius wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
You do remember that the old bitz service didn't actually offer single pieces like you suggested, right?
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, yes, it actually did!
Well, you are both right. For metal figures, they offered the metal components for sale separately; you wanted that high elf's lord shield - you could buy it separately. Want a Hive Tyrant Head and just the head - you could buy it.
In regards to plastic sprues, they would sell the sprues but not components from the sprues. Now quite often, box kits contained multiple sprues. Each sprue could be purchased individually, but you couldn't buy say one plastic head.
Now back in the golden age of bits, stores could buy the inidvidual sprues at discount and then cut the individual components out for sale. GW, to our horror, ceased thier sale of indivual sprues, forceing bit companies to buy whole kits and become saddles with unneccessary inventory that greately increased the cost to us the consumer. On top of that GW stopped selling individual components of metal figs. Yeah for GW  .
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Post by: ph34r
JohnHwangDD wrote:Alpharius wrote:I can't imagine GW would even notice a drop at all if FW was selling complete resin marines!
I'm pretty sure GW doesn't notice in the slightest that FW is selling 2 ranges of complete resin Guardsmen.
Not the same in the slightest. You make all the unimportant parts come from the plastic SM kit, people buy tons of plastic SM in addition to FW. You can't do that to DKoK or Elysians, they would look horrible. Notice how the cadian kits are all conversions, not whole resin.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
^ missed the point - the sales of resin DKoK & EDTs are zero relative to plastic Cadians & Catachans.
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Post by: ph34r
JohnHwangDD wrote:^ missed the point - the sales of resin DKoK & EDTs are zero relative to plastic Cadians & Catachans.
A. You don't know that, and B. the point still stands. When given an option to make more money or not make more money, this time GW has chosen to make more money by making you buy plastics in addition to resin.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
^ Given the amount of plastic IG I see relative to resin, yes I do.
I could care less about resin marine bitz. I'm making a point about resin guard.
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Post by: Alpharius
JohnHwangDD wrote:
I could care less about resin marine bitz.
WHAT?!?!?
HERETIC!
OK, OK, I kid!
Can we just get back to being excited about older Armor Marks and an updated DKoK list?
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Post by: Xanthos
I know I am! (Excited about the new free army list that is...) Now if only they would make the rules for Aeronautica free, that would really rock!
One combo that springs to mind with the new list, is a combined squad with commissars, hidden Pfists, and a quartermaster behind the lines to give everyone FNP. I think that could be nasty, to the point of broken...
I think I need to get me a quartermaster...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
@Alpharius: I have already gone through the trouble of collecting enough plastic bitz to field a full-bitz Black Templar army and a full-beakie/ Mk. VI army. I'm not likely to field a third bitz army, although I suppose I could be persuaded to add full-bitz Veteran squads.
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Post by: Scott-S6
JohnHwangDD wrote:But WTF, GW doesn't even sell individual, in-production sprues anymore?
Few sprues are produced singularly - the rhino sprues all come from one mould, for example. If they offer them for sale and one sells better than the other then you have waste. Same with most of the squad sprues.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Ahh, but those aren't the sprues which interest us: Vindicator upgrade spures, Predator upgrade sprues - these are what we're looking for without the attached Rhino sprues
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Post by: the_trooper
So I emailed FW:
Hi,
I noticed your release of an update to the Death Korps of Krieg list. It looks like my friend and I will be having some more interesting battles of reenacting the fight for Vraks.
Are there plans on updating the Rengades and Heretics, Servants of Slaughter and Servants of Decay lists? Those large renegade infantry squads mixed with my left over Lost and the Damned mutants would make for more fun games for sure.
Thanks for your time and thanks for making kick ass models.
Rich
And I received at 5:13 AM this morning:
Hi,
We are just putting the finishing touches to the Renegade lists upgrade and they should be up on our website in the next few weeks.
Thanks,
Simon Kirkham
Motivation to finish my renegades has been found. ;D
Grain of salt and all that but it's pretty encouraging.
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Post by: Nurglitch
More great news. Hopefully it reduces price pressure on Chaos Space Marine helmets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of Forgeworld, when did they release the Ork Meka Dreds?
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Post by: Pyriel-
People will pay $24 for 5 resin/plastic grey knight style models. And as much as I am sure you are proud of your sculptors, they are still very much so outclassed by forgeworld.
Its a question of money. Being able to work with king sized versions of what you are sculpting up (if you can afford the massive costs in shrinking sculpts) makes superior quality a lot easier to obtain.
Then there is 3D cad etc etc.
Who knows, maybe we´ll invest in those things as well somewhere down the line and then prices will be accordingly adjusted upwards...but then I´ll guess you will be the last one to complain, obviously.
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Post by: ph34r
Pyriel- wrote:Who knows, maybe we´ll invest in those things as well somewhere down the line and then prices will be accordingly adjusted upwards...but then I´ll guess you will be the last one to complain, obviously.
Attempting to paint a person with legitimate criticisms about your work as some sort of irrational critic who will always hate your products is a great way to not get their money  .
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Post by: Dave47
Wow, the Kreig Codex really is a mess. It's like a blast from 2nd Edition.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Yeah, all firepower, no Transports!
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Post by: AlexHolker
JohnHwangDD wrote:Yeah, all firepower, no Transports!
They could have at least put in a "Chimera Motor Pool" as a Fast Attack option, if they wanted to make it difficult to mechanise the DKoK.
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Post by: Nurglitch
Wait, no Gorgon?
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Post by: AlexHolker
Nurglitch wrote:Wait, no Gorgon?
Actually it does allow 1-3 Gorgons as a Superheavy detachment, but apart from that all you get are Centaurs, which can only carry 5 men.
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Post by: the_trooper
Are people really complaining about the Krieg codex? It's just an updated version of the old one but possibly stronger and more competitive.
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Post by: Xanthos
I honestly like it. It´s different than the vanilla IG Codex, and allows for some interesting combo´s.
And of course, since it´s entirely free, you can just choose to not use it if you don´t like it. I think that I´ll use it for some of my army setups, but for some, like the sentinel heavy list I sometimes field, I´ll stick with the IG Codex.
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Post by: Pyriel-
Attempting to paint a person with legitimate criticisms about your work as some sort of irrational critic who will always hate your products is a great way to not get their money .
Attempting to put words never said in mouth of others as deflection based on lack of argument is in deed the epitome of internet debate.
But I give you points for a nice attempt though.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kanluwen wrote:Honestly, I have no clue why they no longer do it.
Because keeping an inventory of thousands of product lines is impractical, time consuming, space consuming and expensive. Scaling the bitz service back made perfect sense from a business perspective. Unfortunately, where GW dropped the ball is their replacement bitz service. Rather than looking at their existing bitz service and using sales records as a way of working out what bitz to keep on sale (ie. the ones they sold lots of), they just canned the whole service, replacing it with the useless 'bitz' service we have now.
I'd also like to think that GW is clued in about the after-market 3rd party bitz suppliers out there, and see what sells quickly and what doesn't. Of course, if they were clued in about that they would have started using other sites of their own market research, but it appears GW doesn't do very much market research (how many years to make Bloodcrushers plastic?).
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Post by: Dave47
the_trooper wrote:Are people really complaining about the Krieg codex? It's just an updated version of the old one but possibly stronger and more competitive.
It's a bad list by almost any metric. The rules are unclear, the units are unbalanced, the options are arbitrary, the Trojan rules are missing, and even the language and formatting is not internally consistent. It's a very messy list, although it does serve as a reminded that the GW main studio team really has gotten much better at rules writing since 2nd / 3rd Editions.
That said, it's free, and it's not tournament legal, so it's not a big deal. Provided potential DKoK players are smart enough to make sure all their purchases can "count as" stock IG choices, I can see this list being a lot of fun to mess around with in Apoc, where everything gets a lot more fuzzy and balance is less important.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Dave47 wrote:... and it's not tournament legal...
The legality of a list at a tournament is the prerogative of the tournament organiser, not something inherent to the list.
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Post by: Pyriel-
Because keeping an inventory of thousands of product lines is impractical, time consuming, space consuming and expensive. Scaling the bitz service back made perfect sense from a business perspective. Unfortunately, where GW dropped the ball is their replacement bitz service. Rather than looking at their existing bitz service and using sales records as a way of working out what bitz to keep on sale (ie. the ones they sold lots of), they just canned the whole service, replacing it with the useless 'bitz' service we have now.
Hmm, maybe they simply accepted the detailed bitz service to be taken up by non GW entities (like bitz on ebay, bitzbarn etc etc) meaning the loss was acceptable or even not a loss at all?
I'd also like to think that GW is clued in about the after-market 3rd party bitz suppliers out there, and see what sells quickly and what doesn't. Of course, if they were clued in about that they would have started using other sites of their own market research, but it appears GW doesn't do very much market research (how many years to make Bloodcrushers plastic?).
Sounds logical but I dont see how GW would have access to the sales figures from all 3:rd party bitz companies out there and certainly not from the more experimental bitz companies.
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Post by: Dave47
H.B.M.C. wrote:Dave47 wrote:... and it's not tournament legal...
The legality of a list at a tournament is the prerogative of the tournament organiser, not something inherent to the list.
Good point. I can name at least one tournament in my area that's apparently going to allow Apoc units. But as a general observation, few tournaments are going to approve this list. It's generally going to be used in Apoc / friendly games where it's flaws are less dramatic.
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Post by: Moopy
AlexHolker wrote:
They could have at least put in a "Chimera Motor Pool" as a Fast Attack option, if they wanted to make it difficult to mechanise the DKoK.
You're missing the point. Krieg don't use Chimera becuase they don't hold hold enough. "Go in a Gorgon or go home" is their motto when it comes to moving mass infantry.
Same thing with missile launchers and other what not. They're a specialized force so don't expect to see everything from the Guard codex.
I'm glad they updated the force list. I'll be fun to use.
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Post by: Grimstonefire
Perhaps slightly off topic, but does anyone think that FW would be open to the possibility of people on forums doing extensive testing of existing lists to try and balance them better?
Obviously GW studio wouldn't, but with FW sending out experimental rules, it strikes me that an organised group could iron out all the problems with a list like the Death Korps.
Thoughts?
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Post by: Lord of battles
Email them, you never know.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Pyriel- wrote:Hmm, maybe they simply accepted the detailed bitz service to be taken up by non GW entities (like bitz on ebay, bitzbarn etc etc) meaning the loss was acceptable or even not a loss at all?
Except the bitz service set up by places like Horde'O'Bits, Bits&Kits, etc. isn't anywhere near the same service GW used to offer. And I think most of the problems with GW's bits service would go away if they went back to offering sprues. Don't have to offer every metal bit in the range, but plastic sprues would help quite a bit (not to mention individual models for Specialist Games).
Pyriel- wrote:Sounds logical but I dont see how GW would have access to the sales figures from all 3:rd party bitz companies out there and certainly not from the more experimental bitz companies.
You don't need detailed sales figures to work out the trends in the bits market. Just go to any bits site and look at what's sold out. It is invariably the same thing every time - Marine Crusader Helmets, Razorback turrets, Scout legs, Daemonette Command bits, etc. - a simple look through what's available currently (standard shoulder pads), what's on sale all the time (all the random do-dads from the Dark Angel sprue), and what's constantly out of stock (the aforementioned parts, + more) would give them an idea on what sells and what doesn't.
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Post by: Nurglitch
Then there's also the relative costs. I remember a time when the Warstore was selling the Chaos Space Marine Possessed Winged Backpack for A$12.50.
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Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, that was a bit much...
Still, valid points about GW's bits service, or lack thereof now.
It would be even better if it was in a thread about... that!
I guess there isn't much else to talk about in terms of the Forge World newsletter.
I am glad FW is doing sneak peeks though!
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Post by: warboss
Moopy wrote:AlexHolker wrote:
They could have at least put in a "Chimera Motor Pool" as a Fast Attack option, if they wanted to make it difficult to mechanise the DKoK.
You're missing the point. Krieg don't use Chimera becuase they don't hold hold enough. "Go in a Gorgon or go home" is their motto when it comes to moving mass infantry.
Same thing with missile launchers and other what not. They're a specialized force so don't expect to see everything from the Guard codex.
I'm glad they updated the force list. I'll be fun to use.
another point sublists aren't supposed to get everything their parent list has and then more.. they're supposed to get somethings instead of others. you can play an infantry heavy siege list with both the IG and FW Krieg rules but with slightly different flavors (including FNP for a 50 man IG power blob!!!). i figured this sense of entitlement was only common in marine players (bwahhh! why don't my space wolfs have scout speeders or ironclads?) but i guess it extends to IG players.
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Post by: ph34r
Pyriel- wrote:Attempting to paint a person with legitimate criticisms about your work as some sort of irrational critic who will always hate your products is a great way to not get their money .
Attempting to put words never said in mouth of others as deflection based on lack of argument is in deed the epitome of internet debate.
But I give you points for a nice attempt though.
Hah! What is there to argue about? I don't like your products as they are inferior to Forgeworld? Is that an argument, because I'm pretty sure that is an opinion.
Pyriel- wrote:...but then I´ll guess you will be the last one to complain, obviously.
I guess you're right. This quote totally isn't about you saying that I hate your products and will be the last one to complain about them, even when everyone else is won over to your side.
You know, unless you totally didn't mean any of that, and just somehow are completely terrible at getting your point across and you are just the poor misunderstood victim. Which of course you could claim at any time, to cover up your being a passive aggressive ass to your potential customers.
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Post by: Pyriel-
Except the bitz service set up by places like Horde'O'Bits, Bits&Kits, etc. isn't anywhere near the same service GW used to offer. And I think most of the problems with GW's bits service would go away if they went back to offering sprues. Don't have to offer every metal bit in the range, but plastic sprues would help quite a bit (not to mention individual models for Specialist Games).
Yeah, you are right. Sprues cost a nice buck and can be easily offered.
You don't need detailed sales figures to work out the trends in the bits market. Just go to any bits site and look at what's sold out. It is invariably the same thing every time - Marine Crusader Helmets, Razorback turrets, Scout legs, Daemonette Command bits, etc. - a simple look through what's available currently (standard shoulder pads), what's on sale all the time (all the random do-dads from the Dark Angel sprue), and what's constantly out of stock (the aforementioned parts, + more) would give them an idea on what sells and what doesn't.
True, given a wee bit time this could be fairly deducted as you say.
I guess you're right. This quote totally isn't about you saying that I hate your products and will be the last one to complain about them, even when everyone else is won over to your side.
You know, unless you totally didn't mean any of that, and just somehow are completely terrible at getting your point across and you are just the poor misunderstood victim. Which of course you could claim at any time, to cover up your being a passive aggressive ass to your potential customers.
After putting words in my mouth I never said and then deflecting the issue might I remind you to please point out to me exactly where I claim you are:
1: Irrational!
2: hateful.
If failing to produce said quotes you know what to do.
You know, unless you are somehow terrible at making a point without over dramatizing things like totally blowing things up out of their proportions, which of course you could claim at any time to cover your overly aggressive response in claiming I somehow add qualities to your person of hateful and irrational nature.
To get back to the word "obviously" that so hurt your feelings, no, I made it as a half friendly barb, a humorous evil eye, thats all but what is the point of me telling you, you have "obviously" made up your mind that I hate you, you hate me, I think you are irrational and god knows what else you "feel" that I think, oh yeah, I am also completely terrible at expressing myself (well you are completely terrible at over reacting so what).
Now if we are through with the pissing contest...
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Nurglitch wrote:Then there's also the relative costs. I remember a time when the Warstore was selling the Chaos Space Marine Possessed Winged Backpack for A$12.50.
The problem with that is two-fold:
1. TheWarStore.com inherited the prices from Battle Wagon Bitz, who were notorious for over-costing the 'in demand' bits to absurd levels.
2. They also inherited the problem BWB had with not paying attention to market forces (ie. when Assault Cannons stopped being the 'it' gun for Terminators, and Cyclones replaced them, the cost of Assault Cannons stayed high, yet Cyclones stayed low). The Combat Company (an Australian-based bits site) has this problem as well. Perceived value vs actual demand.
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Post by: Pyriel-
H.B.M.C:
Do you think the whole lack of bitz sales from GW is intentional in the way that it actually increases GW sales. Think about it, on one sprue there might be one bit that everyone wants and buys.
Now if they released that bit alone then people would buy it and nothing else, this way people need to buy the whole sprue to get that one bit.
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Post by: Oldgrue
I'm still curious about their pricing decision of £16. It seems to be inconsistent (GW Consistent?) with the World Eaters and Death Guard - enough to ask other questions:
Does it look to anyone else that the heads seem to be static to the torsos? The top left and bottom right product shots seem to reinforce this. Then again I've never had my hands on the other two - are those heads static too?
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Post by: Kanluwen
Oldgrue wrote:I'm still curious about their pricing decision of £16. It seems to be inconsistent (GW Consistent?) with the World Eaters and Death Guard - enough to ask other questions:
Does it look to anyone else that the heads seem to be static to the torsos? The top left and bottom right product shots seem to reinforce this. Then again I've never had my hands on the other two - are those heads static too?
Different kits have different amounts of bits. Let's compare the Red Scorpions conversion kit to the Raven Guard one again, just to keep a semblance of a decent comparison(as the World Eaters and Death Guard kits you mentioned are 20 GBP and have a ton of spare bits leftover from the "10 model upgrade" if you're aware of what you're doing when building them).
So, the Red Scorpions conversion kit upgrades 9 models with new torsos, new helmets, and new shoulderpads--in addition to the weapon options you get for Veteran Sergeant Haas. That's 16 GBP.
Then we've got their most recent offering, in the form of the Raven Guard squad upgrade--which upgrades 5 models(including a Sergeant) to be wearing Mk. IV armor by swapping in new torsos, new helmets, new shoulderpads--and the key difference here between the Red Scorpion and Raven Guard kit--and new backpacks. Additionally, it also comes with the parts to allow you to field the squad as Sternguard with custom Storm Bolters that have Raven Guard iconography.
Price? Same as the Red Scorpion kit, just with the space halved due to providing the backpacks that match the armor.
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Post by: Oldgrue
's okay, I was looking at the wrong kit when I was asking questions anyway.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kanluwen wrote:...Death Guard kits you mentioned are 20 GBP and have a ton of spare bits leftover from the "10 model upgrade" if you're aware of what you're doing when building them).
10 Torsos and 20 Shoulder Pads. Hardly a 'ton' of spare bits there.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Shoulderpads aren't molded onto the torsos, and can be mixed+matched just like any other kit.
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Post by: LordWynne
I think I will stick to my MK1 Vet Devestators w/ lasgun-shotgun combi-weapons from 1987 2 blister packs of 5 for a wooping $4.99 each all lead.
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Post by: ph34r
Pyriel- wrote:You know, unless you are somehow terrible at making a point without over dramatizing things like totally blowing things up out of their proportions, which of course you could claim at any time to cover your overly aggressive response in claiming I somehow add qualities to your person of hateful and irrational nature.
To get back to the word "obviously" that so hurt your feelings, no, I made it as a half friendly barb, a humorous evil eye, thats all but what is the point of me telling you, you have "obviously" made up your mind that I hate you, you hate me, I think you are irrational and god knows what else you "feel" that I think, oh yeah, I am also completely terrible at expressing myself (well you are completely terrible at over reacting so what).
Now if we are through with the pissing contest...
So you admit that you were making a jab at me, and then reacted in the way you did to me calling you out for acting that way towards potential customers?
You realize that you just confirmed everything that I was talking about this entire time?
My feelings are not hurt, but please continue to imply false implications as much as you want. It does not help you at all. If you have any more random flailing, just keep it up. It's amusing.
And just in case you honestly don't know, Attempting to put words never said in mouth of others as deflection based on lack of argument is in deed the epitome of internet debate.
But I give you points for a nice attempt though.
is not how you respond to someone if you want to then later to claim that they are blowing things way out of proportion. You also don't passive aggressively imply things about people if you want them to not be hostile in return. Automatically Appended Next Post: H.B.M.C. wrote:Kanluwen wrote:...Death Guard kits you mentioned are 20 GBP and have a ton of spare bits leftover from the "10 model upgrade" if you're aware of what you're doing when building them).
10 Torsos and 20 Shoulder Pads. Hardly a 'ton' of spare bits there.
It's 10 torsos 20 pads and 10 heads. For just over $30. Which makes FW, again, cheaper than some bits services such as chapterhouse, and still higher quality.
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Post by: cadbren
Beautiful looking marine helmet there but I wouldn't call it a mk V. It's a mk VII that has been retro-fitted to look like a mk II or III, the Great Crusade era helmets. That wide top vent first appeared on the mk VII helmets. Supposedly the mk VIII (errant armour) suits are distinguished by those high armoured collars yet it seems that everyone wants their crusade and heresy era marines to have them on the earlier marks too.
The mk V helmets are distinguished by the longer nose piece which eventually became the classic "beakie" helmet of the mk VI (corvus) type. There's well established fluff on marine armour, it would be nice if they stuck to it.
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Post by: Pyriel-
So you admit that you were making a jab at me, and then reacted in the way you did to me calling you out for acting that way towards potential customers?
You realize that you just confirmed everything that I was talking about this entire time?
My feelings are not hurt, but please continue to imply false implications as much as you want. It does not help you at all. If you have any more random flailing, just keep it up. It's amusing.
Wow, just wow. You just dont get it do you.
Your delusional thoughts of what exactly may take place inside my own head are not my problem nor my concern.
Besides, man up and produce those quotes I asked you of or stop outright lying about me calling you hateful or irrational but then again, you cant.
I frankly dont care if you believe in your own BS and lies, stop pestering me with your holier-then-thou attitude kid.
Consider yourself reported, I dont take to kind to liars.
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Post by: LordWynne
 My vet Havocs in Mk1 armor...
3
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Post by: plastictrees
I really don't even know what's happening here any more.
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Post by: Alpharius
SO off topic...
And, that pic is blurry - but, it doesn't look like 'Thunder Armor' to me!
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Post by: ph34r
Pyriel- wrote:Wow, just wow. You just dont get it do you.
Your delusional thoughts of what exactly may take place inside my own head are not my problem nor my concern.
Besides, man up and produce those quotes I asked you of or stop outright lying about me calling you hateful or irrational but then again, you cant.
I frankly dont care if you believe in your own BS and lies, stop pestering me with your holier-then-thou attitude kid.
Consider yourself reported, I dont take to kind to liars.
You post a jab at me, don't act so shocked when you get a hostile response, or get called out on it. I've quoted your jab plenty of times, but you still don't seem to get it. Stop calling me a liar, read your own hostile posts and get a clue. Consider yourself counter-reported. Oh, and we should probably stop posting OT in this thread.
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Post by: Soviet Yam
@Pyriel- : There is no reason to get into a flame war with ph34r just because he likes FW better then chaptrerhouse. Your reaction to his opinion just pushed me away from ever wanting to deal with chapterhouse.
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Post by: Kroothawk
To be fair, Nick is Chapterhouse, not Pyriel. Pyriel is just one freelance sculptor for them among others. And Pyriel only speaks for himself, not for Chapterhouse. Don't ask me on what occasion I learned that though
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Post by: Alpharius
OK.
I've already posted this once - STAY ON TOPIC.
AND, STOP the personal attacks.
The two of you have gone at it enough here - NO MORE.
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Post by: ph34r
So how often does FW do newsletters? When do you think we will see another preview of their new marine stuff?
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Post by: eNvY
H.B.M.C. wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:It'd be easier if GW simply shrank the Cadians and Catachans back to 2E size.
2nd Ed metal Catachans were the same size if not bigger than Marines. The DKoK models are to scale with Marines, and it's one of the reasons why 'True Scale' Marines is such a misnomer. Marines are not out of scale - it's the human models that are too big.
True-scaling marines isn't so much about scaling them in comparison with other models, it's about making their physical dimensions look more realistic. As they are now, space marines have very big heads and arms/hands compared to the rest of their bodies.
I'm hoping the next time they release space marine plastic kits they do away with the "heroic" scale and just make them realistic. The True Scale marines I've seen on the P&M section look fantastic.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
eNvY wrote:True-scaling marines isn't so much about scaling them in comparison with other models, it's about making their physical dimensions look more realistic. As they are now, space marines have very big heads and arms/hands compared to the rest of their bodies.
The 40k3 SMs had oversized heads, but the newest SMs have better, smaller heads. Regardless, the Cadians and Catachans are much too big. If they were shrunk down in height, to 28mm at top of helmet, then everything else in the 40k universe automatically becomes more properly heroic in scale. Basing ordinary humans around 6'4" uberhumans was GW's worst mistake in going to plastic. Keep them at 5'6" to 5'8", and everything else starts to look better.
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Post by: Kanluwen
ph34r wrote:So how often does FW do newsletters? When do you think we will see another preview of their new marine stuff?
They don't really have a set schedule. They just...do it.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
eNvY wrote:I'm hoping the next time they release space marine plastic kits they do away with the "heroic" scale and just make them realistic. The True Scale marines I've seen on the P&M section look fantastic.
And replace every single plastic and metal line across 7 separate armies? No. They won't do that.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
cadbren wrote:Beautiful looking marine helmet there but I wouldn't call it a mk V. It's a mk VII that has been retro-fitted to look like a mk II or III, the Great Crusade era helmets. That wide top vent first appeared on the mk VII helmets. Supposedly the mk VIII (errant armour) suits are distinguished by those high armoured collars yet it seems that everyone wants their crusade and heresy era marines to have them on the earlier marks too.
The mk V helmets are distinguished by the longer nose piece which eventually became the classic "beakie" helmet of the mk VI (corvus) type. There's well established fluff on marine armour, it would be nice if they stuck to it.
not true  that IS a MK 5 heresy suit
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Post by: Chapterhouse
It would be much simpler for GW to modify the marine body/scale then all the other ranges out there.
I really think the players would appreciate such a move, I do not see it happening though.
Nick
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Chapterhouse wrote:It would be much simpler for GW to modify the marine body/scale then all the other ranges out there.
Huh? Marines are half of what GW sells, so they stay. Orks can be big, along with Nids.
Eldar can hold at being slightly shorter than a Marine, since Elves are supposed to be a little taller than a basic human.
That leaves Tau and Guard, which are 3 lines (Tau, Cadians, & Catachans), all of which are supposed to be human-scaled. Actually, Tau can even be shrunk down to 5'3" to 5'6", slightly shorter than a human, just to further drive the point home.
Guard (and Tau) are the an easy fix to "true scale", wiith much smaller impact on the range.
Tho, of course, GW does need to make the SM heads even smaller, but fixing the "humans" automatically upscales the SMs.
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Post by: cadbren
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:cadbren wrote:Beautiful looking marine helmet there but I wouldn't call it a mk V. It's a mk VII that has been retro-fitted to look like a mk II or III, the Great Crusade era helmets. That wide top vent first appeared on the mk VII helmets. Supposedly the mk VIII (errant armour) suits are distinguished by those high armoured collars yet it seems that everyone wants their crusade and heresy era marines to have them on the earlier marks too.
The mk V helmets are distinguished by the longer nose piece which eventually became the classic "beakie" helmet of the mk VI (corvus) type. There's well established fluff on marine armour, it would be nice if they stuck to it.
not true that IS a MK 5 heresy suit
Sorry, you're right, but the corvus is still based on the mk IV and the FW helmet is definitely based on the earlier marks. I was looking at that Armour through the Ages set that GW sells and they have the marks around the wrong way.
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