We don't hate rap. We just don't think it's real music.
No, seriously, it's relatively easy to laugh at those pseudo rappers we get today. Can't flow properly and or get on the stage without help due to all the bling.
I don't hate rape, I just don't actively go out and buy rap music, apart from a couple of artists, but I can appreciate the skill taken to actually perform the rapping, and to write the music; if you listen to quite a lot of modern rap songs without the lyrics, the instrumental music is often very good.
Its not a "hate" issue.
Its just not what I enjoy.
I can apprieciate it, though like all music there is some real trash out there. I do think that as a style it has gotten some bad press and a lot of the negatives associated with it are the things that some artists feel they 'need' to be considered 'legit'.
One element I dislike about Rap is the near constant need of some artists to reference themselves. To me, it shows a lack of imagination to repeat your 'name' in your recordings. Doesnt happen in Rock You don't hear Ozzy's name repeated in pretty much any of his songs but you know who is singing.
only kidding of course.
Like everything else it has been hijacked and pummeled into pap to be spoonfed to the mewling masses.
And there is no reason for me to want to listen to it. I don't really want to see or hear some guy doing weird things with his hands festooned in gold chains and bangin' on aba' him bee'in' ap on him bitches an' dem guns an' fing!
And I wish to see some poncy pretty white boyband doing a watered down version of same even less.
And those guys would propably top themselves if people like me was digging their scene man.
I dont hate rap, Just the modern crap, and I am also not restricted to rap alone, hell, my favourite bands are Coheed, Led zeppelin, the doors and probably Thorogood.
Take Inspectah Deck for example, RZA, Method Man, ODB, Sunz Of Man, all great, hell, I got respect for pretty much anybody in WU.
so, I guess im in your 10% that likes old school stuff.
also, lets band together against the common enemy, COUNTRY MUSIC!!!!
I can't stand the constant shoveling of that genre into every facet of life. That, the lack of imagination and the mysoginy of it. It just seems like most of thyese "rappers" are incredibly insecure.
But I hate 90% of every genre.
I'm predominantly into my metal (which I would say is the second most common preference on any warhammer forum, after "eclectic"), but I still dislike the (huge volume of) mediocre/overly repetative/unimaginative metal. Y'know, most of it.
Now, a somewhat TL;DR question, but has anyone brought up the difference between rap and hip-hop? It's actually quite noteable when you listen long enough.
Personally, I don't enjoy FotM bands (if you call them that), or generational music. By generational I mean, what does this current generation listen to? What did my generation listen to? what did you dad's generation grow up to?
The difference between Rap and Hip Hop, from what I understand, is that Hip Hop isn't a genre, its a cultural movement. Rap is the Genre that came with the movement. Look it up sometime, its rather interesting.
Snikkyd wrote:The difference between Rap and Hip Hop, from what I understand, is that Hip Hop isn't a genre, its a cultural movement. Rap is the Genre that came with the movement. Look it up sometime, its rather interesting.
That's pretty much what I heard, but I'd also heard that hip-hop was also a more literal musical enterpretation of the movement, and "rap" in the current vernacular is another divergent sub-genre (being one of the main two). "Rap" being different from "rapping" in this instance.
I could be totally wrong though, I know next to nothing on the subject tbh.
I dislike most "modern" music that I hear, especially over produced stuff, whcih in my mind rap generally falls under
(Also my main problem with rap is the: "Gonna shoot yo right in yo face wif my bling bling boom and bend over yo ho while yo bleed on yo wheels den go do some sweet dope and wear mah munny threads" school of rap, rather than the actual act of rapping.)
That said, despite disliking alot of music, I do respect some of the artists, can't think of any rappers that fall into this category though.
I also like alot of stuff, and my music collection is...esoteric at best (Nothing like Frank Sinatra being followed by Iron Maiden to confuse the brain pan)
I tnink one of the most innovative Rappers out right now is Mizfit Tha Menace, Gothic/horror based rap that is lyricly and rhythmicly better than some of what passes for popular rap that is out now.
Warning if you look him up.... not safe for work..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I consider hip-hop to be the most innovative genre of music at this moment in time; followed closely by electronic funk.
I only hate modern rap, and the image they seem to like so much.
It's on the same level as Hardcore(Don't know if this actually is the same kind of music in america, but it can be replicated by putting bricks in a tumble dryer) as far as music go's.
Fusion is good. I like US 3(US cubed) and there is a newer group called the Flobots that had an interesting album titled "Fight with Tools"(Ignore the pop hit handlebars and instead listen to the whole album).
Slarg232 wrote:I wouldn't go that far, just something thats further than:
"You mess with me yo dead, You mess with me yo dead, I got yer sista in mah bed."
would be nice.
Go back to listening to Justin Beiber, it's clear you can't actually find music.
You have a godlike ego, you know that? I mean, whatever gods exist must be jealous of your ego.
I can find music, BEEEEEYOTCH!
Congratulations on being able to find an 18 year old song by one of the most well known musicians in history (ozzy). And yes, all fear my glorious ego.
One of my current favourite bands is Kora, from here in NZ. The heart of the band is several brothers, all with very different musical tastes.
One's a rocker/metalhead, ones into dub and reggae, the other rap and hip-hop. Thier music is great and they do amazing live shows. Doesn't sound like you'd expect at all (rap/rock generally don't mix) but if you can find any myspace or youtube videos of them that aren't pants quality you'll see what I mean.
I'd look for the songs Shankenstein, Politician, The Delivery Man, Time, Flow and DEFINATELY the song Crazy Things. On My Mind is one of their more rap-like songs.
My favorite album. I can listen it a dozen times and still enjoy it. Not a fan of all of the songs on it, but Del is definitely in my top 5 hip-hop artists.
I will add, I have never been a huge fan of spoken word, and I feel that it works MUCH better when used on it's own. If there is singing and not singing, rap is spoken word.
I like trip-hop, there is some really good stuff out there. A bunch of my old friends really burned it out for me though, I just got sick of hip-hop in general a while ago, but I'll listen to certain stuff occasionally. Being around nothing but hip-hop starts to annoy me after a few days at this point.
I think this is pretty funky fresh. I can't get enough of this kind of stuff. I can pass on a lot of the more popular mainstream artists though, although even some of them have a decent song every now and then.
i hate it becuase of it violence and being demeaning to women. I prefer real songs like manowar's hail and kill and pleasure slave. That is wholesome family music right there.
I get tired of hearing multiple songs in a row on the radio all about the same thing (drugs, women, guns, money) all back to back. I like a lot of rap, but most of the new stuff is just tiring and too simple. There's no complex verses and everything seems to be written just for the chorus as dance music. Crank That by soulja boy is a great example of how poor quality rap music is recently. Is it even about anything? Rap songs about life, growing up, being in high school, working, and even to a small extent the aforementioned drugs, relationships, money, and violence is ok, but stacking a whole song on a single premise is just boring to listen to. I won't deny rap touches on those first four subjects I mentioned but in moderation and told as a part of life or the rapper's life it's fine. When the song turns into a big glorification of drug use or something similar then it loses all it's substance.
All that being said I do like a few party jams, but overall I like substance in the verses and not a minimal verse just to get by until another dance-centric chorus come around. Rappers I listen to are Tech N9ne, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, 50 Cent, D12, Immortal Technique, Xzibit, Tupac, Jay-Z, La Coka Nostra, and Ludacris. Rappers that I don't like are Lil Wayne, Akon, Soulja Boy, Lil John, and a handful of others.
Here's a few links to songs that break-away a bit (don't expect something completely different) from the stigma..
I like a lot of music, and I do like some of the party rap that's upbeat and about hitting up a club and dancing, but when that's all their music is it's value is lost. Can a rapper do that and still have songs with worthwhile content, yes, but not enough rappers do it.
Congratulations on being able to find an 18 year old song by one of the most well known musicians in history (ozzy). And yes, all fear my glorious ego.
Actually, for one who loves to get his facts 100% correct, your wrong, that songs by Lita, not Ozzy. Don't worry, researching is hard for me, too.
Why I hate rap? Because its just filled with donkey caves who only talk about guns, drugs and murder. I do not have the ability to take that kinda lyrics seriously.
If bands such as Limp Bizkit or Rage Against The Machine (had their albums before the recent hype) count as rap then I like rap. I don't like the fact that most of it is about killing any neigh-sayers. Oh and mostly a british thing but I also hate it because chavs like it
It's a class thing. It is no secret that wargames are expensive. In order to participate in these sorts of hobbies, you have to have a certain income level, and you're probably either a working adult, or a kid in a middle-to-upper class family.
Rap, and to a lesser extent, country, is largely based around lower-class/lower-income situations. The reality portrayed in most rap songs is not one I can even remotely associate with. I'm not 'f--k the police' or 'busting caps' in people, I go to work, do a job, collect a paycheck, and actually don't mind the police being around.
(Likewise, I've never lost my woman over a bar-bet or had my pickup repossessed. I don't get county music either, it's just low-rent rural instead of low-rent urban).
I have, however, been somewhat educated. When some random metal band sings about Odin, I know who that guy was. There is some amount of overlap in the themes you see in war-gaming and metal, hence if you took a poll of wargamers, you'd probably find more metalheads than anything else. (Reading concert shirts at wargaming events, this seems to hold true too.)
VikingScott wrote:Oh and mostly a british thing but I also hate it because chavs like it
You must be down south. Up north chavs seem to like happy hardcore and speed garage (or bassline I believe they call it now).
As for Hip Hop, I like it. But it died about seven years ago. US hip hop in particular hasn't done anything new besides implement vocoders into almost every single record released at the moment. Nowadays the most attention it gets is when rap stars 'cameo' in rnb songs, which is too often.
Yeah I've heard of them before. Not a fan.
But tbh I was trying to be positive and say that i like certain variations on rap as presented by Limp Bizkit or RATM.
My favourite band is 36 Crazyfists.
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whatwhat wrote:
VikingScott wrote:Oh and mostly a british thing but I also hate it because chavs like it
You must be down south. Up north chavs seem to like happy hardcore and speed garage (or bassline I believe they call it now).
Yeah I'm from Wiltshire. Chavs are a menace round here. My town could have a lot done of good work done to it, were I given a flamethrower and set lose in certain areas.
I know alot about rap as well, embarrasingly i liked it when i was at school, you know, cos it was "cool"
Maybe you grow out of it?
I remember when i was 14 i thought Snoops first album was great, Ice T used to be pretty awesome, i liked Doctor Dre, Ice Cube, Tupac.. all that gak.
Nas, i remember his as well, only the single was decent though, i recall hearing the album and it sucked.
And now i think rap is absolute garbage.
Does your taste change as you get older or is all this new stuff just generally gak? I have no interest at all in rap music these days. Either im old and boring or rap has gotten alot worse.
I don't hate rap. In fact, I listen to it now and then (although, very selectively). I prefer nerdcore and guys like deltron or atmosphere to mainstream rap though.
Congratulations on being able to find an 18 year old song by one of the most well known musicians in history (ozzy). And yes, all fear my glorious ego.
Actually, for one who loves to get his facts 100% correct, your wrong, that songs by Lita, not Ozzy. Don't worry, researching is hard for me, too.
He sings for half the song and is credited more often in the video you posted. Theres one person singing in that song which makes it popular, and it definitely isn't Lita.
Blurting them out at high speed to a bass beat is hardly pleasing. And I wouldn't call being vulgar for the sake of being vulgar, then trying to market it as music, "Creative".
Congratulations on being able to find an 18 year old song by one of the most well known musicians in history (ozzy). And yes, all fear my glorious ego.
Actually, for one who loves to get his facts 100% correct, your wrong, that songs by Lita, not Ozzy. Don't worry, researching is hard for me, too.
He sings for half the song and is credited more often in the video you posted. Theres one person singing in that song which makes it popular, and it definitely isn't Lita.
That's like saying Chad Kroeger/kroaker (whatever his name is from nickelback) is what makes Into the Night by Santana good. And anyway, Lita Ford is just as much of a Metal God(dess) as Ozzy.
Grambo wrote:Rap used to be good,but now it all about balck guys yelling curse words and saing the n word every 2 seconds,thats why i listen to metal now.
Which is all about white guys yelling and saying the F word every 2 seconds...
metallifan wrote:Blurting them out at high speed to a bass beat is hardly pleasing. And I wouldn't call being vulgar for the sake of being vulgar, then trying to market it as music, "Creative".
So you don't listen to hip-hop and are therefore unqualified to offer a reasonable opinion with respect to it. Thank you for illustrating the manner in which people will use their emotions to attempt to replace actual knowledge.
Seriously, there's more to hip-hop than 50 cent. Just like there's more to rock than Nickleback, and more to Country than Toby Keith.
Grambo wrote:Rap used to be good,but now it all about balck guys yelling curse words and saing the n word every 2 seconds,thats why i listen to metal now.
Which is all about white guys yelling and saying the F word every 2 seconds...
Not much difference really...
Actually you've got Death Metal. And that's -if- you can even hear the lyrics. Most of the time it's just screeching into the mic.
I'll stick with my thrashmetal. Because you can actually hear the lyrics.
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dogma wrote:
metallifan wrote:Blurting them out at high speed to a bass beat is hardly pleasing. And I wouldn't call being vulgar for the sake of being vulgar, then trying to market it as music, "Creative".
So you don't listen to hip-hop and are therefore unqualified to offer a reasonable opinion with respect to it. Thank you for illustrating the manner in which people will use their emotions to attempt to replace actual knowledge.
I never said anything bad about hip-hop. Technically, that's an entirely different Genre. Before you go off trying to insult me, at least try to get -that- right. Can you do that for us?
Slarg232 wrote:
metallifan wrote:Actually, I quite enjoy Blues, Jazz, Cultural, -some- country artists and punk bands, rock, and -dare I say- Classical.
I enjoy Opera. Yeah, feel bad about your classical now.
Fine, I will. But if I cry myself to sleep tonight, know that it was your fault!
Good grief, this thread has turned to crap, I see one guy actually giving valid arguments in defense of a genre while everybody else sees fit to just hide behind the great big wall of ignorance.
Also, anything can sound bad if you overgeneralize it.
metallifan wrote:
I never said anything bad about hip-hop. Technically, that's an entirely different Genre. Before you go off trying to insult me, at least try to get -that- right. Can you do that for us?
Rap isn't a genre, its a technique, and the primary vocal element element of hip-hop. The fact that you believe otherwise is further evidence to me that you have no clue.
In any case, I'm not insulting you, I'm making a factual statement regarding your perception of the hip-hop genre vis a vis rap. If you believe that rap is only about bass and rhyming, then you have no idea what you're talking about, and cannot be regarded as having any knowledge of the subject matter. An analogous statement would be that metal is only about screaming and power chords.
Grambo wrote:Rap used to be good,but now it all about balck guys yelling curse words and saing the n word every 2 seconds,thats why i listen to metal now.
Which is all about white guys yelling and saying the F word every 2 seconds...
Not much difference really...
I have to disagree. It really does depend on which band you listen to. Some of them are truly awful but there are a lot of good ones. 36 Crazyfists for one. The City Ignites is a beautiful song imp.
I like hip hop, not rap....there is a keen difference.....rap is on the radio, hip hop isn't (unless you live in an awesome place like Seattle with underground hip hop stations). Here's a tip for whoever said they have no choice because it's on the radio....turn it off...
I love real hip hop...a large part of real hip hop heavily samples jazz, soul, and funk, from the 70s and 80s....I love the music too, more than anything, so it all kind of fits...
I have to disagree. It really does depend on which band you listen to. IMO
[size48]OPINION![/size48]
Exactly, that was my point.
Overgeneralizing is the sign of a weak argument, and that has been 99.9% of this thread.
I am not a fan of rap/hip hop per se, however I am also not a fan of over-generalizing statements.
Commercial music as a whole is formula driven, contrived, and market focused, and likewise most music fans have a myopic view of music rooted in their own taste biases, limited exposure to music outside their genre of choice and their assumption that what they hear on the radio represents quality examples of any given genre.
"Music fans" are derisive and narrow minded by nature when it comes to music discussion, and this tread has clearly demonstrated that fact.
Fact is, if there is a market for something it will get recorded and sold while quality artists pushing creative limits, blending genres, innovating the use of technology and song writing, etc. for the most part will never get heard on the radio because they don't fit into marketable categories or whatever the flavor of the moment is, and that goes for rap, rock, metal, country and just about any genre...
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:I just hate bad rap. ... 50 Cent ... all have songs I like.
Oh, the irony. IMO, "fiddy" can't rap his way out of a damp paper sack. He just doesn't flow. Half the time he sounds like he's forgetting the "lyrics" and just mumbling.
CT GAMER wrote:
"Music fans" are derisive and narrow minded by nature when it comes to music discussion, and this tread has clearly demonstrated that fact.
CT GAMER wrote:
while quality artists pushing creative limits, blending genres, innovating the use of technology and song writing, etc.
PLEASE listen to the band I linked to on the previous page. Not only will you be helping out my home towns' music industry, but you will freakin' LOVE the stuff, if you're in to competent blending of genres.
I'm not very selective about my music. I can listen to Beethoven one second, then switch to Dido or Nickelback or (some) Eminmen the next. ...I even have a Gaga song on my Ipod.
HOWEVER, listening to Tupac and 50cent is, to me, similar to having just realised that you have stepped in a giant dog turd.
Really? I listen to it on my Ipod when boxing, really gets me going. More so than any Metal bands or whatever.
Buut...I am probably the youngest Powderfinger fan out there. Can't wait till their gig comes up here...normal isn't on my agenda.
If we cannot agree on Nickelback, good sir, might we at least find some common ground and agree that Ke$ha is worse than anything one might care to mention? Yes...even Justin Bieber.
I am slightly surprised that no one has brought up Saul Williams yet as a break in the general lyrical content of the vast majority of rap. His music usually leans more to the political side or pointing out what is wrong with society.
The next three Songs were also produced by Trent Reznor. Some of you metal people just might have heard of him. some of the background music sounds like outtakes from NIN.
I totally love the following lines from the song.
Would Jesus Christ come back American? What if he’s Iraqi and here again? You’d have to finally face your fears, my friend? Who’s gonna hold your hand when that happens?
To find new meaning in your freedom when your freedom kills.
This song just has a smooth flow and grove.
He also remixed a NIN track off of Year Zero by adding vocals to what was just an instrumental which I honestly feel made it a much better starter for the album.
The messiah's an immigrant detained at the border Severed from his trinity, his wife, and his daughter
I don't dislike all hip-hop at all. In fact, I often turn on Rhapsody and listen to Too Short while I'm painting. I particularly find the albums "Chase the Cat" and " You Nasty" to be both lyrically amusing and musically interesting.
I don't necessarily agree that good or bad is entirely subjective, but I don't believe you can say an entire genre is bad arbitrarily. However, if nothing was bad or good, why practice anything at all to be better at it? I think hip-hop is music in every sense of the word. Its rhyming poetry set to a background beat. Whether or not you agree with or even understand the subject material is immaterial.
For instance, I don't particularly care for Saul Williams, as he's a bit too "arty" for my taste, but he's undoubtedly good.
Grignard wrote: I don't dislike all hip-hop at all. In fact, I often turn on Rhapsody and listen to Too Short while I'm painting. I particularly find the albums "Chase the Cat" and " You Nasty" to be both lyrically amusing and musically interesting.
Try some Digital Underground. Same era as Too Short with a lot of Funk sound to them. Their second Album "Sons of the P" is one of my all time favorite albums and something I go to whenever I need to get back into a good mood. It is very heavily influenced by Parliament and Funkadelic
For instance, I don't particularly care for Saul Williams, as he's a bit too "arty" for my taste, but he's undoubtedly good.
\a fair assessment about Saul... he does trend towards artsyness. I like his sound though and the fact that his stuff does radically shift from the standard content of most current rap. I really must thank NIN and Trent for bringing him to my attention. I just regret that I did not get to the venue in time to see him when he was opening for NIN in 2005.
Here's a little exercise for the people who try to claim that lyrics over a beat is not music. does that mean that this is not music?
I just don't care for the genre. It doesn't do anything for me. I wouldn't call it hate. I dislike getting punched in the junk enough to call that hate. But rap hate? nah. You listen to what you want and I'll do the same.
On that note, I'll keep my Johnny Cash turned down so it doesn't disturb you if you do the same with your music.
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mattyrm wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:I'm not very selective about my music. I can listen to Beethoven one second, then switch to Dido or Nickelback
NICKELBACK!?
Agreed. Nickelback replaced Creed for the musical group on the List of All Things Crappy and Redundant List.
I have absolutely no problem with rap. And, IMHO you CAN make a decent rap song about dealing drugs ('Dopeman' by NWA), gang violence ('Bang Bang' by Dr. Dre) or overall criminal attitude ('Inside Job' by Xzibit). Just the other day I noticed that half of the music I listen is rap. The other half is Lynyrd Skynyrd
Grignard wrote: I don't dislike all hip-hop at all. In fact, I often turn on Rhapsody and listen to Too Short while I'm painting. I particularly find the albums "Chase the Cat" and " You Nasty" to be both lyrically amusing and musically interesting.
Try some Digital Underground. Same era as Too Short with a lot of Funk sound to them. Their second Album "Sons of the P" is one of my all time favorite albums and something I go to whenever I need to get back into a good mood. It is very heavily influenced by Parliament and Funkadelic
For instance, I don't particularly care for Saul Williams, as he's a bit too "arty" for my taste, but he's undoubtedly good.
\a fair assessment about Saul... he does trend towards artsyness. I like his sound though and the fact that his stuff does radically shift from the standard content of most current rap. I really must thank NIN and Trent for bringing him to my attention. I just regret that I did not get to the venue in time to see him when he was opening for NIN in 2005.
Here's a little exercise for the people who try to claim that lyrics over a beat is not music. does that mean that this is not music?
I think Jack White would disagree with you.
Yah, they had that one song from Sex Packets that got played endlessly. They're pretty cool. They've definitely got a sound that is different than a lot of the R&B going on at the time.
I agree that lyrics over a beat is definitely music. If you listen to a lot of old blues stuff it has some similarities to a sort of smoother, more melodic hip hop. Then there is that thing they used to do, I think its called Scat, where you make verbal sounds to music that don't have lyrical meaning...You know, shoo-bob-doo-bop, that sort of thing.
I listen to rap but none of the new stuff they're all try hards who grow up in rich neighborhoods complaining about they're life sucking when quite honestly mine is worse.
You gota listen to real rap like Nwa and Tupac (R.I.P).
I'm mostly fed up with rap because it get's stuffed into EVERY bloody song nowadays. Ooh we made a pop song, but halfway through some moron has to go and spout nonsense for about 30 seconds. WHY?!
As a middleclass white man who grew up in the 80's from a nonurban setting...
Why would I enjoy it? It's generally composed of people wishlisting in rude terms what they want out of life. When I want that I go to news and rumours on Dakka.
More seriously like any genre ever... some is better then others and most sucks, and the stuff that really sucks that gets the most airtime.
Captain_Trips01 wrote: Don't confuse actual rap music with the gak everyone listens to today. Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Flobots... good rap music still exists.
I wouldnt call that rap though. Rap is more than just 'chanting to music' its a specific style of chant or monks are rappers.
That would be rather unfair on monks, wouldnt it?
Still there is some decent rap around. Will Smith comes to mind, he is unquestionably talented whether you like his musical style or not. He doesnt have his heasd stuck in his arse either unlike most rappers.
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IG_urban wrote:I like hip hop, not rap....there is a keen difference.....rap is on the radio, hip hop isn't (unless you live in an awesome place like Seattle with underground hip hop stations). Here's a tip for whoever said they have no choice because it's on the radio....turn it off...
Sorry urban but you sound like you have been spoon fed the marketing. Rap and hip hop are synonymous, the difference is purely internal, some 'artists' call themselves part of one 'scene' or the other, or both or whatever, media moguls clap and the fans nod in agreement to cover the otherwose inevitable ommission that they to cannot detect a difference.
Hip hop isnt on the radio its on 'da street'. The record companies must love it when people buy they one, because perhaps they then go out and buy that one. Unless the music is very seriously subvbersive it itsnt underground either, it just means small radius marketing rather tha main radius marketing. You need underground to enforce division in order to establish an illusion of discrenment of quality. The labels will plug wgho they can, but prefer any artist to have a lifespan of two albums, after that they raise their prices so if they arent uncontrollably big by then they get someone else and start anew.
Captain_Trips01 wrote: Don't confuse actual rap music with the gak everyone listens to today. Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Flobots... good rap music still exists.
I wouldnt call that rap though. Rap is more than just 'chanting to music' its a specific style of chant or monks are rappers.
That would be rather unfair on monks, wouldnt it?
Still there is some decent rap around. Will Smith comes to mind, he is unquestionably talented whether you like his musical style or not. He doesnt have his heasd stuck in his arse either unlike most rappers.
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IG_urban wrote:I like hip hop, not rap....there is a keen difference.....rap is on the radio, hip hop isn't (unless you live in an awesome place like Seattle with underground hip hop stations). Here's a tip for whoever said they have no choice because it's on the radio....turn it off...
Sorry urban but you sound like you have been spoon fed the marketing. Rap and hip hop are synonymous, the difference is purely internal, some 'artists' call themselves part of one 'scene' or the other, or both or whatever, media moguls clap and the fans nod in agreement to cover the otherwose inevitable ommission that they to cannot detect a difference.
Hip hop isnt on the radio its on 'da street'. The record companies must love it when people buy they one, because perhaps they then go out and buy that one. Unless the music is very seriously subvbersive it itsnt underground either, it just means small radius marketing rather tha main radius marketing. You need underground to enforce division in order to establish an illusion of discrenment of quality. The labels will plug wgho they can, but prefer any artist to have a lifespan of two albums, after that they raise their prices so if they arent uncontrollably big by then they get someone else and start anew.
My understanding, and I'm not extensively knowledgeable about the genre, but I thought Hip-Hop ( apparently coined by a DJ in the late 70s) was a genre of music, just like rock or jazz, while rap is a means of making the rhymes that make up the music, much like playing a guitar or singing a song. I guess saying rap music is like saying guitar music.
I disagree that hip hop is inherently subversive except for the inherent subversion of coming from an underground subculture. My understanding is that one of the defining aspects of being old school is use of beats and rhymes without a lot of instruments or "artsy" lyrics. Of course, my tastes in that genre are pretty lowbrow. I'll take Luke Skywalker and 2 Live Crew over NWA any day, no matter what the critics say.
In spite of liking a few artists, it isn't my favorite genre, but I think its definitely a form of artistic expression. I think it is an exceptional talent that can rattle off rhymes quickly and coherently like a good rap artist.
Grignard wrote:My understanding, and I'm not extensively knowledgeable about the genre, but I thought Hip-Hop ( apparently coined by a DJ in the late 70s) was a genre of music, just like rock or jazz, while rap is a means of making the rhymes that make up the music, much like playing a guitar or singing a song. I guess saying rap music is like saying guitar music.
Yeah, you're basically correct there, Grignard - with one important qualification: rock, jazz and hip-hop are styles, not genres. It's a broader definition.
For example:
Jazz is the style, and be-bop is a genre within that style.
Rock is the style, grunge is a genre within that style.
Hip-hop is the style, gangsta rap is a genre within that style.
Hope that clarifies the concept a little. You're right about the definition of 'rap' too, and the comparison with 'guitar music' is spot-on.
Personally I like hip-hop, broadly speaking. I like most types of music.
Also, the people here who say they don't like it because everyone else does need to fething grow up. You are NOT beautiful and unique snowflakes. You sound like fething moody teenagers, if anything.
Here's a UK hip-hop artist that I find interesting. The video is fething awesome, and deserves your attention.
JFizzle51 wrote:I've looked at lots of forums and posts and i came to the conclusion that at least 90% of the people here hate rap. And i just want to know... why?
90% of the people here are white as Wonder bread - it's not their music, it's not for them, so why should they like it?
In the same vein, I bet 90% of the rap community would hate GW games, if they knew what it was.
JFizzle51 wrote:I've looked at lots of forums and posts and i came to the conclusion that at least 90% of the people here hate rap. And i just want to know... why?
90% of the people here are white as Wonder bread - it's not their music, it's not for them, so why should they like it?
In the same vein, I bet 90% of the rap community would hate GW games, if they knew what it was.
Offcourse they would, It requires intelligents, har har
JFizzle51 wrote:I've looked at lots of forums and posts and i came to the conclusion that at least 90% of the people here hate rap. And i just want to know... why?
90% of the people here are white as Wonder bread - it's not their music, it's not for them, so why should they like it?
In the same vein, I bet 90% of the rap community would hate GW games, if they knew what it was.
There's good and there's bad. Violent gangsters, female exploitation and gratuitous displays of wealth is generally what I would call bad. No difference if it's a farce, because I presume it is anyway... unless of course it's Yankovich.
The music is sometimes ok. Mostly the older stuff.
how about... because the music itself usually is primitive drum machine loop with dumb funny noise in background and repetative baseline, and most of them are just talking gak about how cool they are with a thin veil of social edumacationism?
Seems a no-brainer to me that a bunch of geeky types with astute minds would not be fond of it. However, why is it that many members of dakka like really bad cheesy metal either? oh yeah... cuz they have demons and warriors with spikes and stuff like that on their album covers and talk about death and destruction all the time... The stuff of adolescent nerdy white male dreams (well... the ones that arent about boobs anyways)
Guitardian wrote:how about... because the music itself usually is primitive drum machine loop with dumb funny noise in background and repetative baseline, and most of them are just talking gak about how cool they are with a thin veil of social edumacationism?
Seems a no-brainer to me that a bunch of geeky types with astute minds would not be fond of it. However, why is it that many members of dakka like really bad cheesy metal either? oh yeah... cuz they have demons and warriors with spikes and stuff like that on their album covers and talk about death and destruction all the time... The stuff of adolescent nerdy white male dreams (well... the ones that arent about boobs anyways)
You're basically discounting anything that isn't an instrumental melody with a harmonic background as non-music. Old school hip-hop always concentrated on rhymes and patterns in lyrics. Sampling is also part of the music. It isn't done randomly, but for a desired sound or effect.
JFizzle51 wrote:I've looked at lots of forums and posts and i came to the conclusion that at least 90% of the people here hate rap. And i just want to know... why?
90% of the people here are white as Wonder bread - it's not their music, it's not for them, so why should they like it?
In the same vein, I bet 90% of the rap community would hate GW games, if they knew what it was.
Dass racis'.
The existence of passive racism doesn't mean I'm wrong about the underlying basis.
Guitardian wrote:how about... because the music itself usually is primitive drum machine loop with dumb funny noise in background and repetative baseline, and most of them are just talking gak about how cool they are with a thin veil of social edumacationism?
Seems a no-brainer to me that a bunch of geeky types with astute minds would not be fond of it. However, why is it that many members of dakka like really bad cheesy metal either? oh yeah... cuz they have demons and warriors with spikes and stuff like that on their album covers and talk about death and destruction all the time... The stuff of adolescent nerdy white male dreams (well... the ones that arent about boobs anyways)
Old school rap hip hop all the way brothers! I just love to get down to some LL cool J or Big L maybe even some of my fave jazzy jeff and the fresh prince 'cos you know that boy ain't gonna beat mike Tyson!
Arctik_Firangi wrote:There's good and there's bad. Violent gangsters, female exploitation and gratuitous displays of wealth is generally what I would call bad. No difference if it's a farce, because I presume it is anyway... unless of course it's Yankovich.
The music is sometimes ok. Mostly the older stuff.
I can dig Ice Cube or Deltron + Automator or Ultramagnetic but they are very few and rare, and often products of a producer ("Dan the Automator" did Prince Pauls album for instance, and the Gorrillaz...) . Producers produce products. That isn't too hard to understand when you look at the products they produce. There's a reason Eminem was such a hit. Hit producer was smart, and had been successful in his early years too because he knew NOT to write the same cliche crap everyone else was spouting and kind of up the ante on lyrics, while leaving the music as just a bump beat.
Why listen to some in-yo-face multi-millionaire fake gang-bang I-got-shot-I'm-cool gangsta stringing together silly rhymes about life in da ghetto when you could be listening to the great works of art of Led Zeppelin, Paul Simon, John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Lynyrd Skynyrd, ... the list goes on.
I don't necessarily hate rap or hip-hop, I just prefer real music I do hate its influence on teenagers, however. When I was 16, I used to have respect for others. These days, many kids will just as well hit you as talk to you, and most of those have adopted the ghetto-style "us-against-them" crap taught to them by their rapper idols. I've yet to see metalheads beating the gak out of people 'because they can' - most I've met were just perfectly normal and polite. Sadly, I can't say that of some pseudo-gangstas I've met...
I just don't like rap. I was a cop was during the height of the cop killer rap phase and every two bit punk thought he was a gangster that wanted to blast a po po. Rap never recovered from those days and now all of it is pure garbage. It is amazing how much people change when the blue lights are behind them and they are being told to get out of the car and walk back to the sound of my voice.
Though I'm very picky, I have a profound love for some underground Hip-Hop.
I listen to Aesop Rock religiously. The Living Human Curiousity Sideshow (A book containing all of his lyrics) is akin to my Bible. His mastery of the English language is unmatched (even amongst authors and poets), especially his understanding of wordplay, metaphorical speech, and his knowledge of colloquialisms and society (of any time period or locale) in general. He speaks of topics that anyone could relate to in such a way that no one could really disagree with him, and best of all, he speaks the message of a layman in the words of a prodigy. His ability to spit is also fairly ridiculous, and before he started producing his own beats, Blockhead layed down some of the best beats in Hip-Hop for Aesop Rock specifically.
I'm not really a big fan of his newer music, because he kind of ran out of message and substituted it for prowess, and the quality of his music sank incredibly low in comparison to his early work, where there was a message and a metaphor contained in every second. He also got pretty hung up on drugs and being better than everyone else, which I respected him for not doing. He used to be one of the few that broke the mold pretty much entirely. Despite doing drugs myself, I really couldn't give less of a feth about hearing about it in a song, as I find that really low-brow and unintelligent.
To anyone who doubts that there is such a thing as 'good rap', or for those of you who haven't yet heard Aesop Rock, definitely do yourself a favor and seek out his albums 'Float' and 'Labor Days'. I'm not sure if he'd be as relevant to folks over seas, as he makes blindingly fast references to American culture and upbringing, but it's definitely worth a shot. There are entirely too many good songs to possibly name any of them in particular. No one song could do him justice. Just know that you should never trust the internet for Aesop Rock lyrics; I have never found a single entry that's completely correct.
Ktulhut wrote: but has anyone brought up the difference between rap and hip-hop? It's actually quite noteable when you listen long enough.
it's all hip hop. you just have to trust me on this. it's all hip hop. your statement is akin to saying 'hey, you ever notice the difference between space marines and 40k?'
hip hop has gone downhill a bit, but there's still some really talented guys out there. i listen to a tonne of hip hop still, but like any genre, if you're judging it based on what you hear on commercial radio, that's like only eating at mcdonalds and saying you don't like beef.
mostly, anyone condemning something out of hand (which is often done with music) at the end of the day typically is just the result of ignorance and close-mindedness, first because it's a question of taste, which there's no accounting for, second, because it betrays a lack of appreciation for talent in the particular genre, and third, it ignores the lessons of history.
producing good beats, writing witty rhymes and lyrics that people can identify with (and they do), and delivering them in a syncopated way such as is done hip hop with timing and flow isn't hard. it's *fething* hard and deserves respect because rapping, the act of telling a story, basically, in its elemental state is an extremely old tradition, dating back in western culture to at least chaucer's time, when lyric poets would entertain the courts with clever, funny, or witty verses. if you want to go back even further, you can look at the oral traditions of many cultures, and how many of their works included rhyme because of its mnemonic qualities. so, rapping possibly goes back thousands of years.
it's pretty hilarious to hear people take cracks at rappers then go on to talk about how great a pop star from the 60s or 70s was. musicians have been in the business of selling for hundreds of years. it's the same thing put in a different box. there's real things in the world to get concerned about, like, i dunno. darfur. rampant starvation and suffering. here, check out K'naan's 'what's hardcore' for an idea of what a real problem might be <3
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JohnHwangDD wrote:
JFizzle51 wrote:I've looked at lots of forums and posts and i came to the conclusion that at least 90% of the people here hate rap. And i just want to know... why?
90% of the people here are white as Wonder bread - it's not their music, it's not for them, so why should they like it?
if you've ever produced art of any sort, especially for money, you would know that the process of creating art as a job has to do, in part, with knowing your audience. but art also is about the artist and their process, without which the work would never occur. so, in both respects, your statement is wrong.
but don't take my word for it. see david bayles and ted orland's 'art and fear', or margaret atwood's 'negotiating with the dead'
rhyming witty with (gakky) is pretty witty innity? yo. My metaphore of saying "LIKE" between two words must be heard for it's so witty I got knowledge yall. Knowledge like college yall, except I didn't go I was too busy bustin the city fo blunts yall, hittin them (witches) yall, rhymin yall with wall that gettin pissed on by my ([see forum posting rules]) yall...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Yeah the power of well intended metaphor is so intellectually staggering.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and I didn't even have to spend a week in jail to come up with that!
