OK well every time I go in to my local games workshop to have a browse I find I am greeted very warmly. If i look in the display cases I will get someone from the staff coming up behind me and saying "are you looking for something?" i always reply very politely no. They then go on to say things like "have you seen the new rule book just out, only 45 pounds" then i say yes but im just browsing. This pushy selling gets very irritating and I dont not wish to offend any one with this article I am just curious as to why they are so pushy. My friend Grob the immortal grot (who does not want his real name spoken) went in to buy some saurus the other day and the shop keepers where like "well do you want a stegadon with that, then youll want some skinks as well because if you are starting a new force you will neeed many different troop types" they kept doing this untill they wotked up to trying to sell him a battle force when he came in for saurus. Th is is really of putting and I no longer go to games workshop for my modelling suplies i use independent stockist like mad for miniatures, newquay gamoiing and wayland games.

A pretty common complaint for GW staff - they are trained and told to aggressively sell, up sell and push new releases.

thank you Scar!
I agree!
GW are trying and pressuring us to buy the next step up, despite the fact that the prices are already extortinate. The worst is the other day i went to get some greenstuff (£5, it actually said on the label) and they charged me £6! Why?
Because they had fired the very same guy who tried to sell me the battleforce but failed last week!

So in effect, i was paying extra for something i shouldn't of had to! because i didn't buy their massively overpriced battleforce filled with PLASTIC!

So vote with your wallet - don't shop there. If you absolutely *have* to buy from GW (ie. you can't find a similar product or proxy elsewhere) then use the online discount stores.

The absolute only way that we as consumers will ever affect change in GW policy and attitude is by hitting them in their profits. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of concerted and cooperative effort to have any real effect.

words of wisdom from grob yet again, ha. But it really does disgust me with way they try and sell you things like that, the lady that tryed to sell us the rulebook was terrible, when we went in to truro shs was giving us leaflets and telling us to come back tomorrow and by the shiny new rulebook.


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thank you filbert

Boss Scar wrote:words of wisdom from grob yet again, ha. But it really does disgust me with way they try and sell you things like that, the lady that tryed to sell us the rulebook was terrible, when we went in to truro shs was giving us leaflets and telling us to come back tomorrow and by the shiny new rulebook.

We asked to look at the rulebook, and she said yes you could, and then surprise. PUSH, PUSH, PUSH!
lady: It's only £45.
Boss scar: thats pretty expensive
lady: no its not really seeing as the old book is (really extortinate as well) is ONLY £35
christ
very annoying

Yeah, I would not advise buying any modelling supplies direct from GW. You can often buy them for significantly less elsewhere. Greenstuff is a common one to get way cheaper elsewhere. The stuff GW sells is an absolute rip off.

As filbert says, shop elsewhere. Online stores generally offer anything from 10-20% off RRP for the models themselves, and will sell model supplies from other companies which are probably 50-70% cheaper than comparable items from GW.

I have no problem with this, I'm friendly with two members of staff there and they aren't pushy when me and a mate go in there. We chat alot and they are the sort of people who are genuine 40K fans, it makes going into the store really enjoyable.
There are certain people that work there that I've just learnt to avoid, the second the words "have you seen the new..." leave their mouth i just walk straight out without saying another word. Solves the problem and they are starting to get the picture and its happening less and less now.

Pushy salespeople are annoying no matter where they work.

I was told by someone that there is no way that GW staff could be bad or pushy sales.
They said if there is any explanation its because im "socially slowed" and cant appreciate it.

I strongly disagree . but what can i do

But thinking about it , it probably explains why the "new" staff gets replaced so often doesnt it?
They get pressured by their managers that they should reach certain weekly target , if they are unable to reach that
performance , its not very good. So they get over board when "persuading" the customers.

Long story short , lack of sales experience.

IMO, they dont get enough time to learn the needed sales skills to retain customers while selling

On Scars behalf do list any examples of this pushyness you have come across

HI all.
I have found the answer to GW pushy sales men.
Simply tell them why you dont want to pay for thier overpriced product.

Pushy GW store person,' Have you seen the new WHFB rule book.'

Me, ' Yes I have, I am not interested thankyou.'

Pushy GW store person,' But its great value ALL full colour pictures and over 500 pages.'

Me , 'Thats why I am not interested, I can buy Armies Of Arcana rules for £20, that is better a better produced RULE set and includes acess to 23 BALANCED army lists for free.if I want to look at pretty pictues of minatures I can visit the GW web site for free in the internet.'

Pushy GW sore person,'Ah , ok would you like to buy some Green Stuff.'

Me 'No thankyou.'

Pushy GW store person, ' why not, have you got enough?'

Me ' Yes , I buy it direct from Kneedatite on the internet , £10 for a meter length, not £5 for 10 cm.'

I could go on , but I think you get the idea...

TTFN

I have a foolproof way of dealing with them... On the very rare occasions I enter one of their stores.

"So what army are you painting at the moment?"

"Von Gracow's Prussian Frei Korps Division from the 1813 War of Liberation..."

Usually does the trick.

I might be a little confused.

Lanrak, Big P....if you aren't buying the 'overpriced' GW products, and are in fact, playing other games, then why go into the GW store? Not trying to be rude, I seriously don't get it.

On a personal note, this is the first I am hearing of this. Now, granted, I have only been to three GW stores, (and only once apiece) but they weren't that pushy with me. No pushier than I would expect any salesperson to be. Certainly they were trying to make a sale, but that's kind of their job. The employees I have dealt with spent more time asking me what I played, what I had, what I felt I needed, and in general sussing what they could conceivably sell me (that I might actually buy) then trying to just ram random product down my throat. I do most of my buying from a local games store that is wholly independent from GW, so I have less experience than most of you.

(And as a side note, 45 pounds for the core rulebook? I wasn't that shocked till I converted that to dollars. DAMN! You are getting hosed. Get a friend to buy it in the US and ship it to you. Don't know what international postage rates are, but I wager it would wind up cheaper.)

When it comes to pushy salespeople, though, in any field, I usually just tell them 'I haven't made up my mind yet. If I have any questions, I will come to you. Thank you for your time.' Be polite, but firm. Haven't really ever had a problem that didn't solve.

I think they have a lot of pressure put on them by GW to sell at all costs. As a lot of people going in are young children (often without their parents), this approach worls quite well.

They are in a very strong position, as although there are other games out their they aren't in the same league in terms of popularity and support as 40k and WHFB so while some mistreated customers may leave the majority will stay, and keep spending.

This has led to GW lacking any interest in keeping and apreciating customers they can be far more pushy than most shops. As many customers are short term and can be abused while those staying usually have little choice. Unfortunately GW plan focuses on quick easy money now rather than long term planning.

As other games continue to rise in popularity GW will be forced to change this or their lack of interest in customers will destroy them.

I would just tell them regardless of what they're trying to sell me that I already have three of it.

"Hey have you seen the new 8th rulebook?!?"
"Yeah dude I already bought three."

filbert wrote:A pretty common complaint for GW staff - they are trained and told to aggressively sell, up sell and push new releases.

Yeah, you can basically close the thread here. They're quite simply forced to interrogate you at every chance

Don't let it get to you though. I'm sure they hate doing it just as much as you hate them for it

Also, they seem to hate walk-ins. Never go into the store without having full confidence you'll be leaving with over a hundred dollars worth of product,or else you'll be harassed. If you look really excited to be there, they might leave you alone.



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avantgarde wrote:I would just tell them regardless of what they're trying to sell me that I already have three of it.

"Hey have you seen the new 8th rulebook?!?"
"Yeah dude I already bought three."

\

good idea. I very well might try this tomorrow when I go!

"Hey, dude. Buying some paints?"<---Store employee
"Yep. I'm painting imperial guard"<---ME
"How's it going so far?"
"Pretty good, I got them all assembled last night"
"Cool, have you thought about getting a spray gun?"
"Yeah, I bought three"
"Oh, awesome. Have you thought about buying a baneblade? We have 12 left in stock!"
"Yeah, I have three"
"Wtf"

Hey, if you don't like the shop, you don't like the staff, simple solution:

SIMPLY WALK OUT THE DOOR

Its a f-ing busieness, they need to make money. At least they don't ignore you and don't listen to anything you have to say. They are doing their job which doesn't bother me. If I'm asked about a new product, I usually get into a conversation about opinions of the new product.

Jimsolo wrote:
(And as a side note, 45 pounds for the core rulebook? I wasn't that shocked till I converted that to dollars. DAMN! You are getting hosed. Get a friend to buy it in the US and ship it to you. Don't know what international postage rates are, but I wager it would wind up cheaper.)

Assuming he's talking about the new WHFB book (which he is), its actually cheaper by 5 USD to purchase it at the UK price of 45 pounds. Shipping would prolly be about another 10-15 USD, so thats not a good idea. In fact, using maelstrom games or another british discounter might very well be a better option for US players than buying domestically.

Mewiththeface wrote:Its a f-ing busieness, they need to make money. At least they don't ignore you and don't listen to anything you have to say. They are doing their job which doesn't bother me. If I'm asked about a new product, I usually get into a conversation about opinions of the new product.

You know, you're right. The problem is that their opinions are usually uninformed drivel, aimed only at getting you to buy whatever product you're discussing, and by "doing their job" they are creating an uninviting environment, effectively harassing you, and preventing you from thinking about your purchase. The one time I have been in a GW store, I walked out after 5 minutes because an employee was following me about giving me unasked for advice for irrelevant subjects, when all I wanted to do was see if I could pick up a Tau Hammerhead or Eldar Wave Serpent. His inability to STFU or leave me alone when politely asked to stop bugging me prevented me from considering which of the two I needed more (I'm an impulse buyer, I can't think these things out in advance)/would be more useful.

The only time I had a pushy suggestive sale was when I entered a GW after christmas to buy some flesh wash during my 6th grade year. I simply wanted the wash, and the salesperson was suggesting that I should "Buy all flesh colors and mix them together to get a good skine tone". Yeah right, he must have thought I was some dumb kid.


In fact, the last time I entered one, the sales clerk really didn't pay me any mind. He asked if I played at first, almost to test my "dedication". Other than that, I was left alone.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:Its a f-ing busieness, they need to make money. At least they don't ignore you and don't listen to anything you have to say. They are doing their job which doesn't bother me. If I'm asked about a new product, I usually get into a conversation about opinions of the new product.

You know, you're right. The problem is that their opinions are usually uninformed drivel, aimed only at getting you to buy whatever product you're discussing, and by "doing their job" they are creating an uninviting environment, effectively harassing you, and preventing you from thinking about your purchase.

That's my big problem with most of the employees in GW. Trying to make a sale is one thing, but when everything in the store is the absolute best at everything, it gets really f'ing annoying.

Or my mates dad, who went in to a store. Knows his son plays "Bloods Angel' thingies.

Mail orders Sanguinary Guard.

The salesperson then states "He needs this and this as well!"

Mate opens Birthday present, to find 1 squad Imp Guardsmen, and 1 set Lizard Riders(WHFB).

I mean, there are hitting targets- but seriously wondering why the Redshirt didn't suggest the new Aragorn(LoTR) fig "As they are REALLY popular and useful!!"

What a Putz.

Heh I remember when the GW opened where we were the first time round in the late 90's (it shut down eventually as they had staff changes later and one idiot drove people away in droves). Sales guy comes up, we were familiar with how annoying they got asked if we needed any help he got a reply of don't try and hard sell us, we will hurt you with straight faces. Funnily enough not only did he never but he turned out to be a great guy since he knew if we were there to buy we would buy and got on well with him.
Where I am now never had any kind of hard sell, the manager is the one usually in and happy just to chat away about the new rules etc as they were gettign closer to release date. He never even took offense when I was asking about the contents of each battalion box these days as I was thinking of getting a couple online for a core of a new army as they are a hell of a lot cheaper
Think it depends where you go but seen enough pushy sales techniques in GW all over the UK to know where people are coming from. End of the day though if they can puch the new rules that leads to people playing which leads to new armies getting bought, more sales, more money in the till. If their store does well it won't be looked at a failure and closed costing them their job, think of it like that. Hell I've experienced the same pushyness in game just browsing pc, ds and wii games from overzealous staff, yesterday some idiot tried for 5 minutes to get me to buy a new release I had no interest in when I just wandered in to browse and kill time.

It's not so bad if you just refuse quickly enough. But sometimes I can't follow their logic...

What's really sad is that my old store had great staff. The manager was friendly and genuinely helpful, and the other man he had with him even gave me some free dwarf warriors he had lying around.

Now? Well, I called up the new guy at GW (Sadly, the other two left), to ask 'em if their new varnish had a matt finish, as I had the older varnish. I was told they were the same product. A quick call to my non-GW store revealed that it wasn't matt and to top it off, it was terrible. I've heard much about this "white mist of doom", but didn't believe it until now.

May as well go ahead and throw my hat in the complaint ring. My FLGS didn't have the models I needed, and I had a day off work and some free time, so I drove to the nearest open GW store. Partly out of curiosity, because I'd never been to an actual GW before. To put this in perspective, I drove to the nearest one... 200 miles away.

Upon arriving, I expressed three ideas:
1) I was very tired, and preemptively apologized for any rudeness I might exhibit (Protip: This is a strong hint that a person does not want to be bothered)
2) Ooh! This store is *shiny*!
3) I am here to spend all of my wallet on specific models with which I am already familiar.

Let me emphasize that. I expressed that I was there to spend all of my money, and I already know what I want.

So what happens? The [supply your own unpleasant adjective-noun combination here] salespeople start trying to upsell me!

I learned a few neat things, though:
1) Unlike 99% of humanity, GW store staff will not leave you alone if you stare directly at something that has your attention and ignore them without replying.
2) There's a printed version of the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer?! (It was news to me at the time)
3) Managers are unimpressed with their employees when you inform them that their salespeople just caused a customer to spend less than half the money they had originally intended through harassment and irrevocably stupid transaction errors.

I am kind of disgusted that that poor guy got fired for failing to sell you a battleforce. AT LEAST HE TRIED!!! The thing GW do not understand is before you make a purchase you have to make a decision. Am i going to start collecting? extending? for me this process takes time, its not something you can do in 5 seconds. I understand if its something little like paints or green stuff. But a Battleforce is ridiculous.

Also, I found out that if you melt all the plastic in a battleforce you get a lump that is about 2 litres. That lump is worth roughly idk, like $9 AUS. i Suppose 30$ for processing and $40 for delivery to nearest GW.
All together that's 79$ and a battleforce is 155$!!! 76$ profit!!! What is this !!!

I read in another thread that the staff get a monthly quota of things to sell and if they don't make said quota for x amount of months they get put on the chopping block =s. Not sure if its true or not but i wouldn't doubt it. The ones at the gw i go to arnt *that* bad but sometimes they get on my nerves. I recently found an awesome hobby store that has weekly warhammer tournaments and a 15~ discount and free shipping so i doubt i'll use gw anymore heh.

Being a salesperson (not GW):

It's our JOB to sell you (the customer) stuff. The company, any company, doesn't pay it's employee's to not do their job. Whatever stuff you came in to find, and more, is what i HAVE to get you to buy. If we DON'T sell you more, the manager gets crap for it, and if the manager gets crap for it, I get crap for it. So what do I do? Up sell.

Now, I agree there's a line of pushiness that shouldn't be crossed, personally I ask for the major items in my store, office supplies, so ink/toner, paper, pens/pencils. Easy things that most people need, but if I'm told "no" I drop it.

However, a very large thing to consider is theft. GW stuff is very easy to steal... ridiculously easy. The best way to deter theft is to be right by the customer and you can only pretend to be doing something else so close to them for so long. What most people here are saying that they do are all indicators of people who want to be ignored; which is a huge red flag for theft.

A better tactic is talk to them, show them you know what you're talking about with the hobby, be polite, and 95% of the redshirts will leave you alone. The other 5% are jackasses.

I rarely go into UK GW stores - If I do then I'll say hi to the staff (no need to be rude), but make firmly clear that I know exactly what I'm looking for and don't need any help. If they keep pushing then I tell them that after 20 plus years in the hobby, I know my armies and know what I'm collecting.

If they continue to push I just tell them I'm collecting paitns for my Flames of War / Perrry / Victrix figures. Either they go 'does not compute' or they go cool and we talk about it.

Bottom line for me - I'll treat staff with respect and will befriendly and polite to them. I expect to be left alone after I've said hello until I ask for help.

While it is obviously their job to sell things, a lot of the time they don't seem to realise the line exists. I'd be happy to get a soft push as you describe Shrike - but if I say "no thanks" or "I just want to browse" or "I'm only after X item", I don't want to be followed round for the next 10 minutes being told I have to buy some LotR rubbish, or 8 units from different armies that I don't play.

And when you eventually shake them off and are either ready to make your purchases (in my case usually a single pot of paint or wash) or want to ask a question about something, there is no one around at the til because they are all off badgering other people. I've had to almost physically drag someone to the til before in order to pay for something. And even then they still tried to sell me a whole bunch of stuff I didn't want or need.

I'm always (I like to think) polite to the staff in there, but I don't go in there regularly enough to be known (though the manager will sometimes recognise me as I usually encounter him the most when I go in), which means that every time I go in I am considered a new mark, which is annoying

"You play Guard? I think you SHOULD play Orks. Go on, go on, go on, your army can't compare to the awesomeness of the Orks."

I support my FLGS now, who aren't as pushy, though they do seem to have developed a fetish for dipping everything, for better or for worse.

Cadichan Support wrote:Also, I found out that if you melt all the plastic in a battleforce you get a lump that is about 2 litres. That lump is worth roughly idk, like $9 AUS. i Suppose 30$ for processing and $40 for delivery to nearest GW.
All together that's 79$ and a battleforce is 155$!!! 76$ profit!!! What is this !!!

Talk about global warming, and the amount of people buying models every day across the globe, and that is one hell of a waste. If anyone knows the average amount of plastic models bought over a certain period, that should be enough to prove my point. Still these prices are an outrage. Look, i want a box full of foam to store my minis in. £60. Yeah, really good in terms on money saving in a just recently shattered economy . Enough money to fill up an Audi R8, or just a small box of foam. get real!

And yes, as shrike and others have said, there are the things that we don't even have to think twice about that we need or want to get in life, bread, eggs, staples, fish etc. But when you move on to the bigger stuff, a whole new minis army or similar as we are discussing, a car, maybe even a home, this stuff always requires more thought. And the thing is, if GW just said welcome to the store do you need any help, understanding this simple matter, and not bug no one about buying 50 tubs of grass the customer wasn't even planning to get, and lower their prices by around 25% permenantly, they could be saving themselves a huge fortune. This could bring thousands of new and bring back previously disgraced customers to their stores, and not have this 'if you don't sell thousands of pounds/dollars/whatever of stock, you're sacked, and buy this stuff you don't even want' attitude. Satisfied customers, satisfied GW. Everybody's happy! or at least they would be...


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G: Games
W: Workshop
A: Are
R: Rubbish (at sales, and customer support)

GWAR, he he!

To be honest overly pushy salespeople are bad at their job if they're so blatantly obvious and in your face. Theres one or two GW's I go to from time to time and have no problem with being made a hard sale as the staff tend to know me and what I have and only recommend what they might think will interest me. Of course looking grumpy all the time helps put the ones that are pushy off! A good salesperson wont be "BUY THIS ITS COOL!". The ones that really do their job well are the ones that make you feel its your decision and before you realize it you've just bought a new army.

I do wish we had FLGS of any description though here :(

Cadichan Support wrote:I am kind of disgusted that that poor guy got fired for failing to sell you a battleforce. AT LEAST HE TRIED!!! The thing GW do not understand is before you make a purchase you have to make a decision. Am i going to start collecting? extending? for me this process takes time, its not something you can do in 5 seconds. I understand if its something little like paints or green stuff. But a Battleforce is ridiculous.

Also, I found out that if you melt all the plastic in a battleforce you get a lump that is about 2 litres. That lump is worth roughly idk, like $9 AUS. i Suppose 30$ for processing and $40 for delivery to nearest GW.
All together that's 79$ and a battleforce is 155$!!! 76$ profit!!! What is this !!!

Yeah, I've heard that the GW staff are all volunteers these days, and malls are letting GW have stores rent-free...

*sigh*

At the end of the day, GW need to make a certain percentage profit from a certain turnover. They are not in it to break even and just about pay their staff. Now, ideally they would not be a publicly listed company, but they are. That means they have to satisfy their investors. If investors don't get the return they are looking for, they take their money elsewhere. Believe me, there are lots of better shares to invest in than GW anyway...

I hate the upselling.
My Mrs won't go there now because of this hassling (and the smell...).
I am not bothered anywhere else like I am in GW, nowhere near.
I, like mentioned above, am after a single paint normally and will have to deflect 5 mins of hard sell.
I am known (a bit) in my local, I have entered (and *cough* won) a few painting compos etc, and they know it doesn't work on me. But still they try.
After this initial spike of bother I can normally chat away happily and even begin to relax and slightly enjoy myself, but it is a mental factor in deciding whether to go there or not.
I'm older and bitter and twisted so I can put up with this crap, but the more socially vunerable must find it very hard to deal with.

Jimsolo wrote:Big P....if you aren't buying the 'overpriced' GW products, and are in fact, playing other games, then why go into the GW store? Not trying to be rude, I seriously don't get it.

.

Where did I say they were overpriced?

So you are not allowed to go in a GW store unless you buy their products? Thats a bit stupid isnt? How would you convert browsers to purchasers?


Just for your record, I do play some GW games, I do occasionally buy stuff (usually from Maelstrom but I still like to buy stuff in a store for the 'instant' hit) and there are few places to buy GW stuff where I live.

I dont even mind the staff, just when I say 'No', it means 'no thanks, now leave me alone' not start spouting at me about things covered in skullz. I resent being talked to by a man who acts like a kid hyped on sugar.

I will never understand why it is so difficult for them to vary their sales pitch dependant on the customer type. I dont want to be talked at like Im a 14 year old 40K Fan Boy, yet they seem unable to operate at anything other than the one mode.

If they did, I may well stay longer, chat and buy more. As it is, a quick dive in, grab what I want, and run out again is my order of the day.

Then again... I doubt I would. My GW gaming is with old games, Mordheim & Necromunda & Rogue Trader, not the travesty that is 40K or the Umpteenth Ed of WFB... So Im probably not their target audience anyways.

Still like looking at their nicely painted models though... Can I do that if Im not buying anything?

The biggest problem with the "pushy salespeople" that GW have is that, for the most part, they're unsocialized teenagers/young adults working for minimum wage being told that the sale is the bottom line--and to top it off, with large amounts of people who seem to be unsocialized heathens unable to deal with any amount of human contact.

meh after spending the last two weeks shopping for a new car... GW employees are tame in comparison...

I don't mind targetted suggestive selling.

"If you play templar, you might want another Black Templar upgrade set."

"Oh, you're painting orcs? Do you have enough devlan mud or Badab Black wash?"

I do mind someone following me around and continuing to try to up-sell me after I have made myself clear on what I am looking for.

Yeah, actually went into a GW for the first time in a while a few days ago. Am traveling in Houston, and brought minis with me to work on. Needed some stuff, and discovered there was a GW just a few blocks from the apartments.

Had a great experience. The dude working there (one man outfit), Charlie, was really cool. Once he found out I have been at this a while, he understood that hardsell was not the way to go. So we just chatted for a bit, I observed some games, bought my crap and left. Needed some more Thrakka Green a few days later and went back. I was suprised, pleasantly. For anyone in Houston, its the store in the 11000's on Westheimer.

Went by Asgard Games as well, had similar experiences. Could recommend that place very easily.

As one person stated, they just like painting their nicely painted miniatures. On my last jaunt to a GW I was accompained by my girlfriend, who has painted a few of these minis simply for fun.

Not to be rude, but my last journey to GW left me disappointed with the quality of their painted minis. Alot of their stuff was left unpainted, which really stood out. The other half were painted to a simple and clean standard. Even my girlfriend, who might as well know nothing about the hobby, was disapointed to the quality of work in the store miniatures.

They did have some nicer models on their back wall, but it still left me wanting more. When the store was located in our actual mall, they had beautiful titans displayed everywhere. Now, just a few marines fighting some bugs.

Bad sales man are really annoying , just like those door to door sales man.

Imagine doors to door sales man without any good Sales Skills , thats what the amateur red shirts are like.

unsocialized heathens unable to deal with any amount of human contact

Makes me laugh. Everything must be our fault because mighty GW must be flawless.

I remember one friend told me a story about a year ago, he went into a GW just to browse and one of the sales dudes asked him what army he played. He replied mostly eldar, and the guy went about trying to sell him some unit or another (I think it was Fire Dragons). My friend replied "No, I already have 40 of those models, more than I can use in a game, I'm actually looking to get rid of some as I don't use more than 20 of them at a time" to which the clerk responds "If you buy some more of them they're great in apocalypse!!!"

chaos0xomega wrote:I remember one friend told me a story about a year ago, he went into a GW just to browse and one of the sales dudes asked him what army he played. He replied mostly eldar, and the guy went about trying to sell him some unit or another (I think it was Fire Dragons). My friend replied "No, I already have 40 of those models, more than I can use in a game, I'm actually looking to get rid of some as I don't use more than 20 of them at a time" to which the clerk responds "If you buy some more of them they're great in apocalypse!!!"

Fail.

Probaly only good for watching them get stomped on by all the big stuff in such a massive game.

It is important to note that I am supposed to suggest items to sell at work, but rarely do. I don't need to sell someone more than what they need, what I have to do is be friendly and try my hardest to get that customer to come back.

Social skills are a must for a job like that. If nobody wants to come back, then your store will lose much more than that expenive item you pushed for and sold by the skin of your teeth.

I have yet to hear any upselling at my local GW. The closest I've ever heard is the generally ask people if they have seen new release 'X,' and they never ask in a way that sounds like they are trying to sell it, but more in a way to inform you about it or to start a conversation about it.

Oh, and if you buy something, they usually ask if you are stocked up on everything you need to build/paint it.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:I have yet to hear any upselling at my local GW. The closest I've ever heard is the generally ask people if they have seen new release 'X,' and they never ask in a way that sounds like they are trying to sell it, but more in a way to inform you about it or to start a conversation about it.

Oh, and if you buy something, they usually ask if you are stocked up on everything you need to build/paint it.

Its usually the ones that replaces their staff like once every 3 months that upsells.
Sounds like the store you visit are stable and experienced.

The manager (possibly former manager) at my normal GW is awful like this. Go in for the apocalypse book for a read, tries to get me to buy first a hellhound, then a valkyrie, then finally a baneblade. I just let him *rant* then bought my book.

His favourite trick right now is. "Have you seen the new release of X, I'm planning on getting them myself as my next army."

So far, he's said that to me about Beastmen, Death Korps (when I bought Vraks), Orks (when the deff dread came out) and at Christmas, when I got the paint set he was "oh I was just planning on getting that but you got the last one."

At my gaming club, my mate had the same complaint, went in to buy the newer Tau codex for his already established Tau army, the guy tried to get him to buy the battleforce.

It's just infuriating.

You must not have ever worked in retailing.

It's called establishing a rapport with the customer. If they know that you use/have an interest in that product, they feel more comfortable buying it.

You wouldn't buy a Porsche from a guy driving a Jeep, would you?

Lexx wrote:The ones that really do their job well are the ones that make you feel its your decision and before you realize it you've just bought a new army.

Are these the ones with hypnotic minds and chloroform?

kronk wrote:I don't mind targetted suggestive selling.

"If you play templar, you might want another Black Templar upgrade set."

"Oh, you're painting orcs? Do you have enough devlan mud or Badab Black wash?"

I do mind someone following me around and continuing to try to up-sell me after I have made myself clear on what I am looking for.

I can agree with this too, but as others have said, I don't want some off-planet, pointless solution from nowhere, like:
If your're starting CSM, why not buy some Skaven Screaming Bells. Also check out this amazing Tau Pirahn... blah blah blah etc.

you get the idea.

I bet some of the GWs around are desperate to save their margin, and ergo force their employees to push their products onto people with abandon just to keep their stores alive.

That happens to me all the time. Last time I went into games workshop to go buy paint and the guy is like you want to but this super special wash brush?!?!?!??! I had to tell the guy like 5 times I didn't want to buy the brush.

FYI GW staff are not told to aggressively push sales, that is the bad training of inexperienced new managers and or staff members that are not confident with a basic conversation, having worked in Gw for 3 years i NEVER pushed a sale, nor "aggressively" pushed a sale. and had highest sales rates out of the staff & manager, infact the manager barely sold a treat but engaged in conversation,


They are trained to engage in conversation and simply ask questions about someones hobby, and experiences and what they like or dislike and suggest ways in which one can enhance problem areas they mention, rule book sales are primarily pushed on launch days by launch parties to whch customers are signed up for and are aware of, the problem is staff mostly new misconceive the oders of the boss about engaging the customer and KPI requirement to mean, push a sale instantly to get marks! which isnt the case,

what you guys need to realise is that the guys in GW are although staff in GW, are also probably as knowledgable as you, and sometimes not used to engaging a customer on any 1000 topics and takes a long time and unique person to get it at the get go.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS GW works off a 10 commandment system, to which if i recall, no.6 or so was, promote the product, the rest were based on courtesy, behaviour, conversation and persona.

I've never actually been pushed to buy something, and by the sounds of it, im quite lucky. The guy in my store will happily let me buy what i came for, and that's it.

He does engage in conversation and has often asked me how my armies are coming along etc but never pushes. He informs me about the latest releases if they apply to me, but it's often what i came in for anyway.

The worst thing he's done was "Ah" he says as i put my purchase on the counter, "good choice, these guys i great, personally though i prefer to have two units though, its a lot better i find"
I tld him that it was my second of it and he said "good" and that was it.

Woo, my Games Workshop!

Haven't been to any GW stores yet, but at most FLGS the staff dont push you to buy, but I found a way to deal with staff members trying to sell you something you dont want, once one staff member was trying to get me to buy a 65$ Land Raider. Instead of buying that I bought some Scouts for only 25$ and then he stopped pushing me to buy and let me browse the store. Im only 13 so i do get pushed alot.

avantgarde wrote:I would just tell them regardless of what they're trying to sell me that I already have three of it.

"Hey have you seen the new 8th rulebook?!?"
"Yeah dude I already bought three."

I will try this next time I go in.

However, in the GW I went to (before it got turned into an independent games seller, but with all the warhammer stuff) it would go like this
Hi welcome to games workshop, (rest of gretting w/e)
>I'm fine thanks
Need help finding anything?
>No thanks, I'm just looking
Alright, ask if you need help

For you guys, just ask about anything and have 'em point it out. Randomly be like, oh wait, yes, I do need help. Where is the...
And they point it out and may leave you alone, if its an expensive thing.

When i go into GW the guys in there are generally friendly and talk to you about your army and what they think you might need then they basically leave you alone to get on what with what youre doing

Can't vouch for GW, but the LGSs are cool. The worst I got was one time walking to the register with a shadowsword and the guy jokingly saying, "Ya know, you'll want at least another one of those in case it gets blown up first round...."

The important thing is, everyone knows it's a joke.

camboyaz wrote:Haven't been to any GW stores yet, but at most FLGS the staff dont push you to buy, but I found a way to deal with staff members trying to sell you something you dont want, once one staff member was trying to get me to buy a 65$ Land Raider. Instead of buying that I bought some Scouts for only 25$ and then he stopped pushing me to buy and let me browse the store. Im only 13 so i do get pushed alot.

Well, you are the main target audience sadly, but in a few years..

I've never had this problem, thankfully. The guys at the local GW seem fine with an oldbie coming in and finding out for themselves what new stuff has come out in their absence.

Kanluwen wrote:You must not have ever worked in retailing.

It's called establishing a rapport with the customer.

WordWeb wrote:Rapport (noun)
A relationship of mutual understanding or trust and agreement between people.

Showing contempt for a customer by lying to their face and expecting them to fall for it is a poor method of establishing a rapport.

AlexHolker wrote:I've never had this problem, thankfully. The guys at the local GW seem fine with an oldbie coming in and finding out for themselves what new stuff has come out in their absence.

Kanluwen wrote:You must not have ever worked in retailing.

It's called establishing a rapport with the customer.

WordWeb wrote:Rapport (noun)
A relationship of mutual understanding or trust and agreement between people.

Showing contempt for a customer by lying to their face and expecting them to fall for it is a poor method of establishing a rapport.

Except the majority of times they're not "lying to your face".

Swing and a miss, cupcake.

Kanluwen wrote:Swing and a miss, cupcake.

What does baseball and food have to do with this

Fifty wrote:

Cadichan Support wrote:I am kind of disgusted that that poor guy got fired for failing to sell you a battleforce. AT LEAST HE TRIED!!! The thing GW do not understand is before you make a purchase you have to make a decision. Am i going to start collecting? extending? for me this process takes time, its not something you can do in 5 seconds. I understand if its something little like paints or green stuff. But a Battleforce is ridiculous.

Also, I found out that if you melt all the plastic in a battleforce you get a lump that is about 2 litres. That lump is worth roughly idk, like $9 AUS. i Suppose 30$ for processing and $40 for delivery to nearest GW.
All together that's 79$ and a battleforce is 155$!!! 76$ profit!!! What is this !!!

Yeah, I've heard that the GW staff are all volunteers these days, and malls are letting GW have stores rent-free...

*sigh*

At the end of the day, GW need to make a certain percentage profit from a certain turnover. They are not in it to break even and just about pay their staff. Now, ideally they would not be a publicly listed company, but they are. That means they have to satisfy their investors. If investors don't get the return they are looking for, they take their money elsewhere. Believe me, there are lots of better shares to invest in than GW anyway...

ing capitalists! They should advertise more, when the ultramarines movie comes out everybody will buy warhamz. I think...

This is why i shop from the interwebs

jamunition wrote:This is why i shop from the interwebs

QfT

Ok, I must be lucky my Local GW isnt that bad, the guy in there can be a lil pushy but its not something I mind too much, he's too busy being confused that I bring my fiance in and she plays as well. May i just say this, if your being given the hard sell by a GW Employee

Your all thinking about this the wrong way.

Their annoying you (This advise goes for annoying street preachers, or survey people or charity people on the street) Play them a their own game, their goal (Seems to be) to waste your time, so waste their, ask them questions about things you dont really care about, be indesicive over sales desicions. And if you EVER need a way to stun a GW employee ask them how you would go about making a race of hamsters in black templar power armour.


In short, waste their time till they get the message (Make sure you have a lot of free time before attempting this, some people REALLY cant take a hint)

thats a great idea danp.
I might just go in and when a guy comes up to me say exactly this " have you ever seen a toaster swallow a bus whole at 2:23am on a tuesday morning??????"
then see what they have to say

The Hamster in power armour ive actually tried on my Local GW Manager, he sort of froze with a bemused look on his face....

From what I've seen the GW staff who seem genuinely friendly and talk to you about the hobby in a manner that engages you as a 'fellow hobbyist', rather than fodder for their sales figures by pushing all the latest stuff, don't last very long. Shame really, because the attitude of the latter I find repellent. I know only a couple that were genuinely nice enthusiastic people and who have been in the shop for repeated visits.

I suppose the worst example I can think of is when as a kid we went into the store just to browse and, while my dad was across the room looking at other stuff, a member of staff engaged me in a conversation which ended in him asking how much cash I had on me to spend (I had none on me chum but very rude of you to ask). Are these the tactics the employ today? How about you just surrender your wallet at the door and give you a credit note?

Howard A Treesong wrote:From what I've seen the GW staff who seem genuinely friendly and talk to you about the hobby in a manner that engages you as a 'fellow hobbyist', rather than fodder for their sales figures by pushing all the latest stuff, don't last very long.

Some people are good salesmen, and some are not. Those who aren't get under your skin, but in either case there is definitely pressure to push sales.

A couple years ago one of the nearby GW stores didn't hit their sales quota over the Christmas period. The manager, who was working mostly at another un-managed store at the time threw his staff under the bus and they all got canned.

I've never had this level of bad experience, even though I'm sure it varies by location and by one's individual tolerance of being sold to. On the few times I do go in a GW ( there isn't one within 4 hours of me) I'm usually, but not always approached by an employee. I don't think it is unreasonable to go up and offer a potential customer the new products and explain why they would want the new product. Occasionally, I've even had to initiate conversation with the GW employee. Perhaps it has to do with the age of the customer. Maybe they think I'm one of the fathers and not one of the guys buying stuff. I'm usually offered glue or paint after a purchase, and while that's technically an upsale, I don't think it is unreasonable.

Come to think about it, employees have followed me around the store, but I have been actively talking about the hobby with them, so I didn't really care.

The one time I've had a high pressure attempt was actually an example of an employee sticking to his training when he should not have. I had brought an adult friend who I wanted to introduce to the game. I fully expected a sales pitch, but I was dismayed that he used the same sort of pitch he was using for the teenagers that came in. It was a little embarassing.

Lanrak wrote:HI all.
I have found the answer to GW pushy sales men.
Simply tell them why you dont want to pay for thier overpriced product.

Pushy GW store person,' Have you seen the new WHFB rule book.'

Me, ' Yes I have, I am not interested thankyou.'

Pushy GW store person,' But its great value ALL full colour pictures and over 500 pages.'

Me , 'Thats why I am not interested, I can buy Armies Of Arcana rules for £20, that is better a better produced RULE set and includes acess to 23 BALANCED army lists for free.if I want to look at pretty pictues of minatures I can visit the GW web site for free in the internet.'

Pushy GW sore person,'Ah , ok would you like to buy some Green Stuff.'

Me 'No thankyou.'

Pushy GW store person, ' why not, have you got enough?'

Me ' Yes , I buy it direct from Kneedatite on the internet , £10 for a meter length, not £5 for 10 cm.'

I could go on , but I think you get the idea...

TTFN

Thats really not needed. Act like and adult.
Treat them with respect and act as a client.
They will do the same. If they don't then don't go there or complain.

Having debates blah blah is not needed. Simply use your Dad voice and note what you came for, or are browsing for the moment and don't need help at this immediate time, thank you.

This thread is just full of complaining nerds complaining about people talking to them. I mean really? You can't handle a simple GW staff member that keeps asking you questions? He is trying to be friendly and sell his product or maybe just get in a conversation with him. If he asks you if you have enough GS,say how I just bought some and it is working wonders for me and go on into detail about what your doing with it. Remember, this isn't blame the redshirts, this is their job, blame GW as a company which I hardly see from these posts. But truly, complaining about when people talk to you too much is just silly. I think we can all get over ourselves and get into a conversation with the guy. It is easy if you have an once of social skills. Say "No, not interested" is just a key for him to keep looking for what you are interested in.

I use this technique whatever they tell me I answer "I just came for [Insert item you want], I don't need anything else" it usually works after a couple of times and when I go back the same salesperson usually won't try to push sales on me again. On another note I have to "teach" new redshirts all the time since there seems an endless number of redshirts working there.

the problem with scar's and my local GW is the staff are in and out very quickly, and the longest i have seen one stay is a few months.

Mewiththeface wrote:This thread is just full of complaining nerds complaining about people talking to them. I mean really? You can't handle a simple GW staff member that keeps asking you questions? He is trying to be friendly and sell his product or maybe just get in a conversation with him. If he asks you if you have enough GS,say how I just bought some and it is working wonders for me and go on into detail about what your doing with it. Remember, this isn't blame the redshirts, this is their job, blame GW as a company which I hardly see from these posts. But truly, complaining about when people talk to you too much is just silly. I think we can all get over ourselves and get into a conversation with the guy. It is easy if you have an once of social skills. Say "No, not interested" is just a key for him to keep looking for what you are interested in.

I see you've never talked to a homeless person trying to convince you the CIA under the direction of the Chinese are running a secret eugenics program using abortion centers as cover.

I've been into a few GW shops and I have to say it's not the pushiness that puts me off (I've been in the military 10 years) it's the feeling of trying to be manipulated. I'll give you an example from one of the LA shops:

"Hi, looking for anything in particular?"
"Yep, where are your codexes?"
"Right there."
2 minutes pass
"Is that all you're looking for?"
"Yep"
"You sure you don't need any glue or green stuff?"
"Yep"
"Wow, just trying to make sure you don't have to get home and make a second trip back for something you forgot."

It's that last line that gets me. All the times prior I got the exact same impression--Manipulation. I hate that much more than the pushiness.

My new plan? The past three or four times I've went in to a store I bring my wife with me (Who's also jush as impervious as I am to pushiness) and send her to engage two or three of the floor people while I snag what I need and buy it. Works perfectly every time--And she always relays awesome stories about what they tried to sell her

Frazzled wrote:Thats really not needed. Act like and adult.
Treat them with respect and act as a client.
They will do the same. If they don't then don't go there or complain.

Having debates blah blah is not needed. Simply use your Dad voice and note what you came for, or are browsing for the moment and don't need help at this immediate time, thank you.

Wow Frazz, that's the most informed, mature, and thoughtful response that I've ever read from you on Dakka. Kudos, and I agree 100%.

Mewiththeface wrote:This thread is just full of complaining nerds complaining about people talking to them. I mean really? You can't handle a simple GW staff member that keeps asking you questions? He is trying to be friendly and sell his product or maybe just get in a conversation with him. If he asks you if you have enough GS,say how I just bought some and it is working wonders for me and go on into detail about what your doing with it. Remember, this isn't blame the redshirts, this is their job, blame GW as a company which I hardly see from these posts. But truly, complaining about when people talk to you too much is just silly. I think we can all get over ourselves and get into a conversation with the guy. It is easy if you have an once of social skills. Say "No, not interested" is just a key for him to keep looking for what you are interested in.

Couldn't agree more, see above.

Mosg wrote:I've been into a few GW shops and I have to say it's not the pushiness that puts me off (I've been in the military 10 years) it's the feeling of trying to be manipulated. I'll give you an example from one of the LA shops:

"Hi, looking for anything in particular?"
"Yep, where are your codexes?"
"Right there."
2 minutes pass
"Is that all you're looking for?"
"Yep"
"You sure you don't need any glue or green stuff?"
"Yep"
"Wow, just trying to make sure you don't have to get home and make a second trip back for something you forgot."

It's that last line that gets me. All the times prior I got the exact same impression--Manipulation. I hate that much more than the pushiness.

My new plan? The past three or four times I've went in to a store I bring my wife with me (Who's also jush as impervious as I am to pushiness) and send her to engage two or three of the floor people while I snag what I need and buy it. Works perfectly every time--And she always relays awesome stories about what they tried to sell her

Asking you if you have everything is hardly "manipulative", it's good business. They are trying to make you, the customer, happy, by being thoughtful and helpful. You did walk into the store yourself, ya know.

I bet as as soon as most staff got onto sales training at their induction a black wind shredded their hearts.

I would expect that any pushiness or overbearingness stems from the fact that these guys are not sales people and did not want a job hard selling a brand. (Most probably think Glengarry Glen Ross is a village in the lower reaches of the Empire).

That they do not know how to overcome common objections or how to approach their customers when upselling is not the staffs fault, blame head office instead.

Cut them some slack and stop being so petty.

A successfull salesperson is the one who learns to read & adapt to people. They ask the right questions, listen to the response and then move the conversation on, with the outcome being that they get a sale. If they don't, then hopefully the customer will come back another time and make a purchase due to the fact they aren't hacked off.

It's not hard, LISTEN to the customer. If you do, they may not buy the new £45 rulebook, but they could end up buying other items up to that value or more. Posters saying"they're sale people that's what they have to do" need to smacked on the nose and told sit this one out, sheesh!

Wolfstan wrote:A successfull salesperson is the one who learns to read & adapt to people. They ask the right questions, listen to the response and then move the conversation on, with the outcome being that they get a sale. If they don't, then hopefully the customer will come back another time and make a purchase due to the fact they aren't hacked off.

It's not hard, LISTEN to the customer. If you do, they may not buy the new £45 rulebook, but they could end up buying other items up to that value or more. Posters saying"they're sale people that's what they have to do" need to smacked on the nose and told sit this one out, sheesh!

sales people will do this. People working for a love of the game, hobby, minis, etc are not the best people to have 'hard selling' your products.

That they want to work in GW and play games all day does not say a lot about their potential to drive sales forwards in a target driven environment. Sure, some might be generally good, overall though most of GW's retail staff aren't going to give a crap about 'closed questions' and 'overcoming objections' and reading buying signals or whatever jazz they are taught out of a handbook.

Mr. Burning wrote:I bet as as soon as most staff got onto sales training at their induction a black wind shredded their hearts.

I would expect that any pushiness or overbearingness stems from the fact that these guys are not sales people and did not want a job hard selling a brand. (Most probably think Glengarry Glen Ross is a village in the lower reaches of the Empire).

That they do not know how to overcome common objections or how to approach their customers when upselling is not the staffs fault, blame head office instead.

Cut them some slack and stop being so petty.

Every business ( yes even GW ) need to display some sort of professionalism.
Its not about lack of sympathy for the red shirts ( or petty you say ) , no. We need to look at it as a whole , starting from the managers , and staff trainers.

Is there enough training done?
Will they be able to display positive results?

If not , what effect will it have on the business establishment?

I would like to see GW shops been useful instead of eating up rent ( which is really heavy )
We already know large amount of people purchase from online discount retailers.
If even the instore experience isnt good , then what else do the stores have left?

Sure we can stop "whining" and be sympathetic , but no tell = no learn.
At the end of the day who is the one really paying the price? not I :')

LunaHound wrote:

Mr. Burning wrote:I bet as as soon as most staff got onto sales training at their induction a black wind shredded their hearts.

I would expect that any pushiness or overbearingness stems from the fact that these guys are not sales people and did not want a job hard selling a brand. (Most probably think Glengarry Glen Ross is a village in the lower reaches of the Empire).

That they do not know how to overcome common objections or how to approach their customers when upselling is not the staffs fault, blame head office instead.

Cut them some slack and stop being so petty.

Every business ( yes even GW ) need to display some sort of professionalism.
Its not about lack of sympathy for the red shirts ( or petty you say ) , no. We need to look at it as a whole , starting from the managers , and staff trainers.

Is there enough training done?
Will they be able to display positive results?

If not , what effect will it have on the business establishment?

I would like to see GW shops been useful instead of eating up rent ( which is really heavy )
We already know large amount of people purchase from online discount retailers.
If even the instore experience isnt good , then what else do the stores have left?

Sure we can stop "whining" and be sympathetic , but no tell = no learn.
At the end of the day who is the one really paying the price? not I :')

I agree,

We should expect a professional service at retail level but there is obviously a gap between retail sales professionals and the fans that want to work , and do, for GW.

You can lead a horse to water....

I want to volunteer at a gw.....Sounds like fun! I probably wouldn't even care about not getting paid. At least it's something fun to do

Oh, sorry. I'm sure most of you wouldn't agree

Too much complaining here. If you guys know about their "tactics", why do you go back? You obviously know what's coming as soon as you walk in the door, so....

Hmm I've never had that problem at the GW stores I've been to. Last week, when I went in to grab a Hellhound, the guy asked me what I was getting, how I was going to build it (Hellhound w/Multimelta), and remarked that he liked that build. Generally, they'll ask if I need any glue when ringing up, but that's it.

Irdiumstern wrote:Generally, they'll ask if I need any glue when ringing up, but that's it.

Yeah, this is about all they push for. You plonk four sets of plastic kits on the counter and they'll ask if you've got enough glue. Nothing wrong with that, you are gonna need a lot of glue, in all fairness.

From reading this thread i see there are mixed feelings about the whole pushy sales thing, some thing we're being stupid and we should just deal with it, others find it infuriating. Being pushed isn't all bad, the guys at GW are trying to get sales and new people to join in the hobby, and from what i gather most of the things they push are actually useful. It starts to get annoying after they repeatedly push you even after you've made it clear you only came in for X.

I recently went in to my local gw wanting only a few paints and looking for a little something to add hoping to spend something like £20. Ended up spending more nearer to £40 but the lads there was giving me sound advice and were genuinly interested in what i was collecting and my paint schemes. Also the other customers there were great to. I even ended up staying and playing my first game of 40k while the missus was walking round other shops!! LOL.

When its good its good. When it's not so good....I don't really keep track.

I talk to the red shirts pushy and non pushy alike. I get my purchases and politely decline modelling sundries or the latest Dwarf Bolt throwing thing a me jig and merrily skip down the street.

Annoying know it all kids in GW. Now, they need a throttling!

You see, FLGS's don't have this problem... Which is why when GW wanted to put one of their stores in Minnesota the FLGS's banded together to keep them out. Gotta love 'em!

whitedragon wrote:

Mosg wrote:I've been into a few GW shops and I have to say it's not the pushiness that puts me off (I've been in the military 10 years) it's the feeling of trying to be manipulated. I'll give you an example from one of the LA shops:

"Hi, looking for anything in particular?"
"Yep, where are your codexes?"
"Right there."
2 minutes pass
"Is that all you're looking for?"
"Yep"
"You sure you don't need any glue or green stuff?"
"Yep"
"Wow, just trying to make sure you don't have to get home and make a second trip back for something you forgot."

It's that last line that gets me. All the times prior I got the exact same impression--Manipulation. I hate that much more than the pushiness.

My new plan? The past three or four times I've went in to a store I bring my wife with me (Who's also jush as impervious as I am to pushiness) and send her to engage two or three of the floor people while I snag what I need and buy it. Works perfectly every time--And she always relays awesome stories about what they tried to sell her

Asking you if you have everything is hardly "manipulative", it's good business. They are trying to make you, the customer, happy, by being thoughtful and helpful. You did walk into the store yourself, ya know.

It wasn't him asking about glue or green stuff it was what he said after I told him that was all I needed. His tone and body posture were pure manipulation--Everything he communicated verbally/nonverbally screamed "You're a bad person for saying 'no' to me". It was some sort of wierd guilt trip.

MasterDRD wrote:You see, FLGS's don't have this problem... Which is why when GW wanted to put one of their stores in Minnesota the FLGS's banded together to keep them out. Gotta love 'em!

Now if only that happened in Australia.

Pushy Salesmanship isn't bad as long as he isn't in your face the whole time. Carsalesman nobody minds, so why do people mind the GW dudes?

Cadichan Support wrote:Pushy Salesmanship isn't bad as long as he isn't in your face the whole time. Carsalesman nobody minds, so why do people mind the GW dudes?

Probably because if you're at a car dealership you're looking to buy a car? It's not like they expect you to buy 2 cars, and if you're there without at least a slight interest in buying then you're a nuisance to them.

Ok, didnt want to start a new thread just to vent this, and this topic seems most suited..

I just officially decided that Im rarely going to buy things first hand anymore.

GW have always been a rip-off but I didnt mind cuz I valued the minatures. Now its just disgusting.

I was drawing up an ork armylist last night, and I worked out that I needed 20 orks, 20 gretchin and a truck. Thats £68!?! WTF.

I need more Dark Eldar raiders and I dont want to buy them new cuz the new minatures are coming out soon so I checked ebay, and there was some for like £7, theyre £20 new!? I dont know what theyre playing at but thats just completely stupid.

Itl nearly be worth buying battleforces just for 1 uinit at this rate.

I want to ring them and tell them!

IMHO, I feel having pushy salesmen is better than having bored, uncaring salesmen like the goons over at Gamestop for example.

I do tend to notice that staff at FLGS don't follow you around as much as GW staff but whenever I talked about buying things to build my first Empire army in WHFB he pointed me to things I'd actually need (Empire Battallions, Hobby Starter Kit, Empire Army Book and relevant paints) rather than trying to get me to buy an Eldar 40k set.

But I don't know, I've only been to a GW a few times because it's farther than my FLGS and it was kind of full during those times so maybe they thought some 13 year old kids were easier marks than a grown man.

But anyway, GW's insane price gouging is issue number one for me. Why do they charge more if they're the official shop? Why do indy resellers get better prices?

Guys ever been car shopping? If not, cut your teeth in the GW stores and let those sale people have it! Welcome to retail.

Remember, something only worth what your willing to spend for it. If I/you don't want "it" and they continue to push, ask if they are going to buy "it" for you, cause your not using your money.

This isn't rude. This is the retail environment and a appropriate counter to the upsale approach.

pushy selling in any corporate setting? pfffft...

A smart and i need to emphasize this " successful " sales man , will never leave you feel like he hass pushed you into buying something you dont want.

This isnt about whining of the staff wanting you to buy MORE MOAR and MORE ( MOAR = profit for company! Im not complaining here! ),
its about their lack of training in their "attempt" at pushing sales.

And which often results in something unpleasant. And im pretty sure that it has NOTHING to do witih the customers been socially challenged. What ever the **** it means.

As someone who sold cell phones (on commission) for several years, I can say that if you feel like you're being pushed, that's sloppy salesmanship, not good salesmanship.

These people are obviously amateurs who have been instructed by their manager to upsell as much as possible, and they become very obnoxious. That's the result of not only poor training and inexperienced salespeople but also poor management.

Luna's point above is very much correct. A good salesperson will never make you feel like you've just made a bad purchase. The worst thing that can happen to your commission is buyer's remorse. Even if you have to settle for a smaller commission to keep the customer comfortable and happy with his or her purchase, it's better than the gamble you take when you start pushing.

I've found that if you actually help the customer and get them what they want versus what will make you a few more dollars, they WILL come back and spend more money with you. I had people come back and see me who I'd sold phones to TWO YEARS ago who were up for another upgrade, and wanted to buy their phone from me because I'd helped them last time.

My cousin and I went in there while we were waiting on a flight in Atlanta, and my cousin ended up sleeping with the GW employee's girlfriend, who was painting in the store (I later found out THAT's why he went out to my truck...). Hence, we are not invited back to that store.

I hate it.

It's kind of funny though. you say that your army is already set up and you're just there to play and they usually leave you alone.

Well, I use a bunker store [GW mt Gravatt for anyone who knows it] and I'm a pretty good customer. I've bought more then one big box that made their eyes light up, but I'm moving off onto the discount products. it's just getting to expensive.

Oh my god.

A combat squad costs £15 now?!

....

I remember it being £5.

The GWS I go to rarely asks if I want anything new. In fact, most of the time, the staff is painting, talking about rules, even playing! I love it where I go. Soon we'll be doing a planetary empire campaign(with a bit of pushy selling. You need to buy a battleforce, but I'm fine with that, since I want to start an IG army anyways).

I remember a TAC squad being $35...

Captain Solon wrote:I remember a TAC squad being $35...

Yeah, I remember that too...and the fact that it was a price hike

Newt-Of-Death wrote:Oh my god.

A combat squad costs £15 now?!

....

I remember it being £5.

Is that the 5 man Marine box set? If it is they were indeed £5 around the end of 2004. Yep just checked, that's the fellas. So GW have increased the price 300% since then? I really can't understand how people can still be so blinded to the rip off. I've got a bridge to sell, anybody interested?

Wolfstan wrote:
I've got a bridge to sell, anybody interested?

Is it over swampland?

filbert wrote:A pretty common complaint for GW staff - they are trained and told to aggressively sell, up sell and push new releases.

this must be a UK thing. every GW shop i go into here in canada, it's super chill and laid back. they say 'hey, how you doing?' and leave me to my browsing. but i don't look or act like a typical tabletopper, maybe i intimidate them =P

in fact, my biggest complaint is that they don't stock witch hunters stuff.

Captain Solon wrote:I remember a TAC squad being $35...

I'm not that old, but when I started, they were $30. Granted, the sprues got redone to give me more options, so I'll not complain about that price hike. But the current price for a tactical squad is just stupid.

I was talking to one of the old heads at a LGS I used to/still frequent when I'm in town, and they were talking about the days when you could purchase 2 land raiders for 20 bucks.

Whats funny to me is that these newer kits aren't as expenive as some of the older kits that GW has released. Just look at the Venerable Dread, yes it's $50 but look at the options it comes with, you can almost make 2 models out of it.

When compared to an older kit like the Tactical Squad, it just doesen't seem right. GW seems to be suffering from the Good Idea Fairy syndrome.

hemingway wrote:

filbert wrote:A pretty common complaint for GW staff - they are trained and told to aggressively sell, up sell and push new releases.

this must be a UK thing. every GW shop i go into here in canada, it's super chill and laid back. they say 'hey, how you doing?' and leave me to my browsing. but i don't look or act like a typical tabletopper, maybe i intimidate them =P

in fact, my biggest complaint is that they don't stock witch hunters stuff.

Not over here in Ontario. It's rediculous. The worst was the Oakville battle bunker. It was a nightmare trying to go in there and buy just one model. The one in Burlington is horrid for it as well with half the staff. The other half are laid back, but the one half, it's rediculous trying to buy what you went in there for. Also, I have heard some of the absolute worst advice I had ever heard in my life coming from those two stores. I actually had a GW employee tell me that the White Dwarf Chaos Mortals list for fantasy that was out a couple of years ago when they got rid of the hordes of Chaos list was the best army book they ever had.

The way I get around pushy GW salesclerks is to point out that I own more GW product than they currently sell, and the fact that most of my army is older then they are usually shuts them up very quickly. Then I spend some money on stuff I don't need, and I'm on my way. -A shout out to my RT Era Brothers!!!

To a person first time going to GW yes it would seem pushy, to me going there were almost everyone knows me (employees and customers) the rule book thing is a joke is you laugh at things like that they will quickly learn you are not an impulse buyer. You have to think about it there are a lot of people who buy battle forces in my store, most don't even have price tags, just think the position of the GW worker, war gaming is more of a community then a business, if GW workers seem to pushy you need to learn to put your foot down

Just say you are collecting khador, sometimes you can just smell them fuming!, it's funny!

You did walk into the store yourself, ya know.

When I walk in to Walmart, I dont get a Pusshy Sales Pitchman trying to get me to Buy String Cheese and Cool Whip.

If you are a Regular, they don't get pushy. When I went into GW Dallas, I got the small sales pitch over the Manticore. THAN he asked me if I even played 40k. I said yes, and said that i wanted to get the rulebook. He tryed to get me to grab the AoBR set. I shut him down quickly by Telling him I played guard, and walked over to a table.

I was in the Chicago Bunker Yesterday, and had a guy ask me about what I played. I told him Guard, and than he asked what army I played. I told him Cadians, but highly based of off the Falklands War. He went on to say how he studyed that war in Collage. He asked me what style of Guard I played. I said Air Calv, and he runned over to the valkyries. I toldhim that I wasn't taking Valks, as they didnt fit my Fluff. I said Im using 1/42 scale Super Lynx Helicopters and OH-6 Little Birds. He culred his lip and Walked off.

All of the GWs I've been to have been much more friendly places, and I have never once been suggested a product for purchase.
I've had, for example recently, a GW staffer say, "Hey, we've got a painting competition coming up for the new Daemons release," but he didn't try to sell me the model or anything.

eledamris wrote:My cousin and I went in there while we were waiting on a flight in Atlanta, and my cousin ended up sleeping with the GW employee's girlfriend, who was painting in the store (I later found out THAT's why he went out to my truck...). Hence, we are not invited back to that store.

I don't know if I should say 'Score!' or 'Epic Fail'

I have never had this roblem at the store I go too even though it is now only a one man store. If anything the guy is too nice, e.g a person came in showing their collectors edition rulebook had a damaged spine so the manager gave him a whole new army, another example is the other week I was sent the wrong thing twice by mail order so he gave me a full box of cavalrry to convert it out of.

Epic score.
There is more GWs in the world, but not female wargamers.

My new manager is nice enough, but if I am thinking about buying something (i,e, shadowsword)
he encourages me to buy it, but he never nags me to buy something I don't want.
GW has a big plan about getting us to trust them by slowly bringing up their prices and then quickly bringing them down again, so they seem like they are being nice.
I have a list of these scams somewhere!

Overall most GW staff are not pushy, but there is always that one bloke you just want to drop kick. If you are a regular, then you are generally left alone.

40K is like crack, GW staff are like pushers. Once you are hooked, they raise the price, and you still keep buying it.

Side note, if she was hot, then Epic Score!!!

Yeah, I've never had this problem at my local GW store in Chatty, they're pretty good. Sometimes they feel a little too enthusiastic though, but I reckon that comes from having to deal with little kids all day, and after they calm down and remember they're talking to an adult...(or at least a bigger kid) then they're cool!

As annoying as the pushy-sales-person or guy-trying-to-be-your-buddy can be I find both to be better than the how-dare-you-interrupt-my-warcraft-time-by-wanting-to-buy-something that is way too common in independents.

I've always found a simple "I know exactly what I want, I'll let you know if I need help" cuts it short. Only the newest and keenest push past that and just making eye contact with the manager usually solves that problem.

Also, do bear in mind that these guys spend most of their time interacting with kids. Sometimes they are desperate to talk to a grown-up and it's that more than wanting to sell.

The worst kind of sales experiences are often found in places where people can't really compete for your business in any way but to badger you. In a world without the option to present discounts, bundles, or other price-focused incentives it can be very frustrating to try to move / balance inventories. You get stuck with too much of anything and the only answer is to lean into your sales staff to lean into your customers. It is a bad experience all around. That's why corporate stores and non-competitive pricing models are such rubbish for customers.

Independent franchises would provide a much better experience, but so long as the main office force-feeds you inventory and you have no recourse but to force-feed it to your customers via salesmen the experience is going to suffer for it. That kind of model is much better for big-box and convenience stores than for niche markets like the hobby gaming industry.

- Marty Lund