I know alot of folks here don't like trudging through the Warseer rumors threads, but I came across some very interesting info the other day in the Fantasy rumors board that, if true, could mean a big change for the direction GW has been going for quite some time.

Here is the various info from several different people in the Warseer thread.

Drifter00 wrote:So I heard from an employee that GW is planning to spend more time now on the actual models they release (it's showing so far imo, great models for both 40k and fantasy recently) and less time on the actual books.

I don't know if this means they will release less codices per year but I hope not. Newayz take this with a grain of salt as usual but the rumour that they are spending more time on the models they release is pretty evident already.

steppingonyou wrote:a little birdy told me that the folks at GW hear your crys. they saw this coming about. oh. 14 months ago. if your gonna start ANY army, i would do so at anytime. HUGE changes coming. in regards to models, books. and (im gonna break one of my rules here) management, pricing and release schedule. i cant give details. that would be tantamount to inside trading. as a hobbyist im very happy right now

In regards to to a member calling steppingonyou's comments vague:

Harry wrote:It is vague ... but no less vague than I have been about this ... and no less interesting. I have been saying for months that folks should expect things to be done a little differently in the future. Don't expect them to continue to plod through the army books one by one anymore.

Although I have no idea what is meant by the inside trading comment?

Anyway, it's certainly interesting info, if true. I'm honestly pretty excited about the possibility of GW changing the current business model that clearly aggravates alot of people. So really a change - any sort of change - would be welcome by me. What do you guys think? Could GW actually have started listening to the fan-base and could that mean a more progressive GW in the coming months?

If they switch to something along all at once codex releases, I would guess the fanbase would support it. However, if the new Codexes looked like the 4E Chaos Codex (Ie. crap, less variety, less interesting things) then I'd say the backlash will be bad.

*Crosses Fingers for frequently updated online codex and new races*

My guess (only an uneducated guess), is that they are going to accelerate the pace of releases (can only be a good thing), and release multiple codecies/books simultaneously.

The alternative, is that the adopt the Privateer Press model and release new units and models via White Dwaf, etc. This is supported by the rules for the Eldar Nightspinner appearing in WD.

All at once releases would definitely be a good move if they could figure out the timing. It would eliminate the codex creep we all know and hate.

My cynicism alarm just went off.

Spend more time focusing on models and not books? Well duh! It's not like they make a lot of money from the books. Lets time (and therefore effort) on books will allow them to have a smaller staff or writers, and just release MOAR!!! models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:My cynicism alarm just went off.

Spend more time focusing on models and not books? Well duh! It's not like they make a lot of money from the books. Lets time (and therefore effort) on books will allow them to have a smaller staff or writers, and just release MOAR!!! models.

Would that be such a bad thing though? Provided they keep up with the FAQs like they've been doing so far with WHFB8...

I say it's fantastic, if that's how it goes.

Kanluwen wrote:I say it's fantastic...

Of course you do...

2nd waves out faster? I'll take that.

Books not coming out quite as fast? UGH.

Books coming out all at once? Time will tell. Gigantically rushed cluster-gak of mistakes? I hope not.

the only change GW will make according to their stock report is that they'll finally begin charging us what the plastics are worth... because up until now according to them they've been cutting us a break with pricing. *HBMC, you may want to turn off your cynicism alarm for this post*

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I say it's fantastic...

Of course you do...

And of course you try with a "GW Apologist" implication.

Jeez Pops, you need to get some better material. But are you really going to sit there and tell me that this "new" method that we've seen so far of the FAQs being revised when an issue arises isn't worth them holding off on books a bit longer?

I feel like a large, single release of all the books would cut down on having basically tiers of armies since the trend seems to indicate newer codices being more powerful than older ones.

tallshortguy wrote:I feel like a large, single release of all the books would cut down on having basically tiers of armies since the trend seems to indicate newer codices being more powerful than older ones.

it won't cut back on power creep but will at least creep armies along at the same pace if they all get updates at the same time. i don't see this happening, though. they did this in 3rd edition (made all the old codicies invalid) and i recall GW saying they wouldn't do that again. can they change their mind? sure. do i think it's likely? no. in the unlikely event it would happen, i'd say it would be in conjunction with a new edition of 40k/fantasy which isn't happening anytime soon (fantasy JUST got replaced and 40k 5e is only 2 years old).

Maybe all the codex updates will occur in 5th edition, and no more intraweb printouts for DE players for their update from the Bush administration...

Power creep is a powerful marketing tool for selling armies of new little plastic toys to people who already have lots of little plastic toys. I really, really can't see GW doing anything to address power creep.

Now, if the managers had good heads on their shoulders, they might begin crowdsourcing the rules. Hell, even just letting volunteers do the proofreading and playtesting would be great savings in development, no doubt. It would require a lot more transparency and resignation to the inevitability of leaks. But a smart manager would already be there.

Looking forward to seeing what this is all about.

Slackermagee wrote:2nd waves out faster? I'll take that.

There's been alot of speculation, and whether it's correct or not who knows, that the 2nd wave system of models releases may be out the window. Instead there would be more creative freedom allowing the sculptors to create one-off units that would be released as they are finished. It seems fairly logical that if a product is ready for mass production, you don't keep in under wraps for an extended period of time just waiting for a 2nd wave for an army.

Look at the new Daemon Prince as a prime example. That sculpt, which is still OK in my opinion, would have been a great single release 2 years ago when it was ready. Instead they held back 2 years to lump it in a daemon 2nd wave and there's lackluster enthusiasm for a model that now shows it's age in terms of the progress GW has made with quality of it's plastic kits. That kit would have flown off the shelves 2 years ago when CSMs where still a rather new army. At this point I'm sure it will still sell in volume, but I doubt as well as it would have a few years back.

From a business standpoint it makes no sense to hold off on offering a product to the customers just to have a larger release to entice more sales. Surely someone at GW has to have made a case for this at some point. Whether or not these rumors indicate that this is in fact the case remains to be seen - but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Savnock wrote: Now, if the managers had good heads on their shoulders, they might begin crowdsourcing the rules. Hell, even just letting volunteers do the proofreading and playtesting would be great savings in development, no doubt.

Check this out if you haven't seen it. I found it to be a really interesting and informative read.

If anything, I think GW's been secretly formulating it's long awaited response to other companies like Privateer and Mantic. Privateer was always a competitor, but Mantic's obvious rise in popularity a couple of months back sent a wake up call to GW. Now I'm not saying they're gonna be better or worse, but I'll bet these changes are in response to the constant whining they get from gamers and as a response to the successes of rival companies.

The idea of "devoting more time to the models" doesn't exactly make sense, but it could be explained by misuse of language. It's not like GW has a fixed staff size, and they have to decide each day if they're going to make models or write books. In reality, they have people who do art, people who do models, people who do the books, etc. etc. They can always hire more... So it's really just a matter of money. If that's what the rumor mill REALLY means, that they'll be focusing their investment on the models, I suppose that's possible...

But consider the situation. GW could easily hire enough people to have a full team dedicated to each army. If they can make one Codex in (say) 4 months, they can hire more people and make them all in 4 months. Not a good business model, but they can do it.

As Savnock points out, it's a GREAT marketing strategy to creep each Codex a little more over the last. You'll even notice that the creep emphasizes new models. Tyranids used to be all about Bugzilla. Now Carnifexes suck, Gaunts are better, and all the big bugs that are good are also new models...

Now, if the managers had good heads on their shoulders, they might begin crowdsourcing the rules. Hell, even just letting volunteers do the proofreading and playtesting would be great savings in development, no doubt.

The rules are a CRITICAL part of the success of the models. If the rules are poor, the models won't sell as well.

So, realistically, what does it cost to make these rules? It's no more than 4-5 designers at the core of it. What does it cost to pay 4-5 people? Not a lot. Half a million dollars a year, maybe? It's simply not enough money to take risks to save, when the company is making $200 million a year. It's 1/400th of the total budget.

Privateer was always a competitor, but Mantic's obvious rise in popularity a couple of months back sent a wake up call to GW.

I don't see this right now. What's Mantic got? Maybe 1/5th of 3 armies done? They're interesting, but I don't see them being the big deal that others do. Their models aren't on the same level as PP/GW, and there aren't enough of them. The only noteworthy bit is their prices, which are much lower than PP/GW.

Something is prolly going to change. Mantic is going to be crawling all over the market in the next few months. From what I've seen in the videos on BoW, they've got their ducks in a row and are set for one hella cool release.

I concur with HBMC. My cynicism is at a rolling boil with this news, and I don't see them spending a moment of time caring a whit about codexes, rules balance or anything not directly involved with selling toy soldiers. The Eldar Night Spinner rules in WD were just a condescending trick to bolster sales of a new kit, just like the Spearhead rules. Don't fall for it!!!

chaos0xomega wrote:My guess (only an uneducated guess), is that they are going to accelerate the pace of releases (can only be a good thing), and release multiple codecies/books simultaneously.

The alternative, is that the adopt the Privateer Press model and release new units and models via White Dwaf, etc. This is supported by the rules for the Eldar Nightspinner appearing in WD.

All at once releases would definitely be a good move if they could figure out the timing. It would eliminate the codex creep we all know and hate.

I hope not while pp does it welll I do not think the gw line would work nearly as well as pp's and we would end up walking around with a bunch of leflets and i for one do not want that. While i do like the idea of fast codex releases i don't want fast " we really did nto change much just jacked up the price and put in some fancy art." Book but i will keep my fingers crossed for a bt book if these changes happen I give it a 35% chance of all this happening not to offend anyone.

Cryonicleech wrote:If anything, I think GW's been secretly formulating it's long awaited response to other companies like Privateer and Mantic. Privateer was always a competitor, but Mantic's obvious rise in popularity a couple of months back sent a wake up call to GW. Now I'm not saying they're gonna be better or worse, but I'll bet these changes are in response to the constant whining they get from gamers and as a response to the successes of rival companies.

I agree I find other companys starting to match gws standards and now that i think about it the recent jump is quality was about when pp went to plastic and matic started also on the side mantic undead ftw.

Because of the huge cost of plastic molds, plastic minis have to be in circulation for a long time to make back their expense. This means that if GW makes a great plastic kit that can interface with lots of other plastic kits and get lots of use, it's a great investment. But if they make a disappointing plastic kit, we're stuck with it for years- possibly decades (old Rhino I'm looking at you). If these rumours mean GW is going to keep working on something until they get it right (as opposed to until it has to be out the door for the big splash) then I'm happy with it.

But I'm skeptical. GW is in a great position to make a change of direction with their new release of Warhammer Fantasy but they also have a long history of squandering opportunities. The real proof won't be to see what's coming in the next 6 months, it will be looking back at what's been done in the last few years. Because the value of wargame minis is not in the quality of a single sculpt, but in the quality of whole lines that open up the possibility of making something better than the individual parts.

JOHIRA wrote:Because of the huge cost of plastic molds, plastic minis have to be in circulation for a long time to make back their expense. This means that if GW makes a great plastic kit that can interface with lots of other plastic kits and get lots of use, it's a great investment. But if they make a disappointing plastic kit, we're stuck with it for years- possibly decades (old Rhino I'm looking at you). If these rumours mean GW is going to keep working on something until they get it right (as opposed to until it has to be out the door for the big splash) then I'm happy with it.

But I'm skeptical. GW is in a great position to make a change of direction with their new release of Warhammer Fantasy but they also have a long history of squandering opportunities. The real proof won't be to see what's coming in the next 6 months, it will be looking back at what's been done in the last few years. Because the value of wargame minis is not in the quality of a single sculpt, but in the quality of whole lines that open up the possibility of making something better than the individual parts.

Quoted for a second happy dose of truth.

ha, and I heard the next 40k army are Protoss.

No really, a friend of a friends, friend told me.

The "big change" has already happened. Most releases this year are not accompanied by a new army book or Codex. We only have 1 army book (Beastmen) and 3 Codices (Tyranids, Blood Angels, Dark Eldar) this year, can't get much less with the 4-year-edition cycle. But the old "one release per army per player generation" policy was plain stupid. Now they do more releases to raise interest in each army two times per player generation One step in the right direction.

I'd be all for an "all in one" book with the codex rules for all the races that was released with each edition and perhaps updated, as long as the price wasn't extraordinary. They could release as much fluff and fiction as they want after that.

So hold on.

Changes are coming, which are only hinted at, in some nebulous form that affects everything that GW is doing and we're going to like it, but they won't tell us what it is.

Why not say something equally valid like "Something is going to happen somewhere, sometime".

I'm not being cynical, I'm being realistic. Give me evidence, proof, and substance, and I'll believe it.

Skarboy wrote:I'd be all for an "all in one" book with the codex rules for all the races that was released with each edition and perhaps updated, as long as the price wasn't extraordinary. They could release as much fluff and fiction as they want after that.

And this is probably closer to the truth, 3 books, 1 main rulebook (Arcana Dominus), 1 codex book (Tomekeeper) and one fluff book (heretical knowledge). with the last 2 having updates in White Dwarf as models are released with a 2-4 yr renewal cycle.

Note: the above is not actual names but merely speculation based on previous rumors

zarathos wrote:

Skarboy wrote:I'd be all for an "all in one" book with the codex rules for all the races that was released with each edition and perhaps updated, as long as the price wasn't extraordinary. They could release as much fluff and fiction as they want after that.

And this is probably closer to the truth, 3 books, 1 main rulebook (Arcana Dominus), 1 codex book (Tomekeeper) and one fluff book (heretical knowledge). with the last 2 having updates in White Dwarf as models are released with a 2-4 yr renewal cycle.

Note: the above is not actual names but merely speculation based on previous rumors

Let's hope not as those are rather... silly.

HUGE changes coming. in regards to models, books. and (im gonna break one of my rules here) management, pricing and release schedule.

Yeah I heard stuff like this over a year ago, too. Heard in fact to forget the "rules" of the past because everything is changing. Also, 2010 was supposed to "blow our minds".

Breaking down the quote above, here are some examples of what we have already seen in the last 1.5 year or so, and speculation about what more may come...

- Models: more plastic, advancing plastic production techniques, plastic for more than just troops (i.e. minotaurs, river trolls). Reboxes to increase $ per model. There is speculation that there are more plastics coming at the end of the year (there were rumors about a huge list of stuff to be released). The discussion about models being released when ready seems plausible.
- Management: US HQ moved to Memphis, Kirby came over to the new US HQ, one man stores with limited hours. Evidently there were huge changes in the layers of middle management, but I don't really care about that. Forgeworld fantasy division in the works.
- Pricing: I think the statement that pricing of plastic will be cranked up to "What its worth" is exactly the direction to expect. More Goldswords, less Dark Elf Cold One Riders ($25 when released, ah, the good old days).
- Release Schedule: This I think is the most interesting. One of the things I find extremely amusing is the insistence that "its a fantasy year" or "40k is next" or "models only come out with the Army Book / Codex". I think those are extrapolations of patterns gleaned from past practices. Those practices have, and will continue to, change.

Some other big changes have occurred... Space Hulk, DH / WH codices online, total Fantasy reboot. Oh and they learned that they can use the rules to push sales of not only more models, but also terrain.

Those were all just the examples off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more...

So the changes will probably be price gouging, a few more model releases and 1 book per year. By the time my Necrons roll around I'll be in a crypt waiting my WBB roll...

My buddy has the inside scoop and what he tells me is models will get better, prices will be higher and the new armies will be much more powerful than the old ones!

And you can take that to the bank!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:My buddy has the inside scoop and what he tells me is models will get better, prices will be higher and the new armies will be much more powerful than the old ones!

And you can take that to the bank!

So says Mr. Stewart.

The thing with Mantic is that not only will they have a ruleset, but the one thing that I think was a serious wake-up call was Alessio agreeing to write the rules. When that happened, I think GW was less than happy with the news. They've lost developers before, but with the combined push to plastic with Privateer and Mantic getting ready for their big release, I think they're trying to ensure that they don't lose out to Mantic's pricing or Privateer's rules.

They could just remove all the different codices and instead produce one very large (and expensive) book that everyone would need to buy to use.

Ravaging Hordes stylee...

It would remove codex/armybook creep, but possibly leave us with one or two surefire op armies in each game that had no chance of being outgunned for 5 years.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:They could just remove all the different codices and instead produce one very large (and expensive) book that everyone would need to buy to use.

Ravaging Hordes stylee...

It would remove codex/armybook creep, but possibly leave us with one or two surefire op armies in each game that had no chance of being outgunned for 5 years.

One question though...

What color is the sky in your world?!?

Seriously - that ain't happenin'!

Kurgash wrote:So the changes will probably be price gouging, a few more model releases and 1 book per year. By the time my Necrons roll around I'll be in a crypt waiting my WBB roll...

Here's a hint: you aren't going to make it!

I support any change in policy that gets models to players more often than once every five years. Every army should be able to get a new toy every 18 months or so. Ideally, in the form of a plastic kit and a blister or two. And that is in the off period. We all like new toys. The reason I play (well, collect) Marines is that they get new toys every year. It is that simple.

That said, we've been promised "this year" forever. I'll believe these things when we start to see them. I have been happier with their more flexible model release schedules of late. A step in the right direction.

Just put my chaos forces back into one armybook/codex per system and ill be a happy bunny....

I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe not even then.

Mithrax wrote:So hold on.

Changes are coming, which are only hinted at, in some nebulous form that affects everything that GW is doing and we're going to like it, but they won't tell us what it is.

Why not say something equally valid like "Something is going to happen somewhere, sometime".

I'm not being cynical, I'm being realistic. Give me evidence, proof, and substance, and I'll believe it.

It's a rumor... by definition they don't NEED any of those things. It's not like you're expected to believe every rumor you hear.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:They could just remove all the different codices and instead produce one very large (and expensive) book that everyone would need to buy to use.

Ravaging Hordes stylee...

It would remove codex/armybook creep, but possibly leave us with one or two surefire op armies in each game that had no chance of being outgunned for 5 years.

Maybe the long-standing joke of a "Codex: Marines" and "Codex: Not Marines" aren't too far from the truth?

No, I'm pretty sure that remains, now and forever, very from from the truth.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:They could just remove all the different codices and instead produce one very large (and expensive) book that everyone would need to buy to use.

Ravaging Hordes stylee...

It would remove codex/armybook creep, but possibly leave us with one or two surefire op armies in each game that had no chance of being outgunned for 5 years.

Maybe the long-standing joke of a "Codex: Marines" and "Codex: Not Marines" aren't too far from the truth?

As a long-time Codex: Not Marines Player, I can tell you that some of those Codex: Marines entries are broken. It's like GW doesn't even care about MY army at all.

Are you a...

...Dark Eldar player?!?

I read this there earlier. I'm hoping 6th edition is a totally combined book, with the army lists and rules put together.

Then, they can release the fluff and painting guides in books like the codexii. I mean painting guides for every model in the range, not three of them

This would make me much happier with the hobby. They could release new options (for the armies) in WD, and the rulebook could have a thing at the back for the WD pages, like a binder, where you could take notes, put your army lists, anything!

Doubt it will happen though, since 8th WHFB is nothing different from the usual. 8th will be around at least another 2 years, maybe longer.

Samus_aran115 wrote:I read this there earlier. I'm hoping 6th edition is a totally combined book, with the army lists and rules put together.

Then, they can release the fluff and painting guides in books like the codexii. I mean painting guides for every model in the range, not three of them

This would make me much happier with the hobby. They could release new options (for the armies) in WD, and the rulebook could have a thing at the back for the WD pages, like a binder, where you could take notes, put your army lists, anything!

Doubt it will happen though, since 8th WHFB is nothing different from the usual. 8th will be around at least another 2 years, maybe longer.

No way at all is this happening with the newxt edition of 40K.

Why people keep wishlisting for it is beyond me, and it is getting a bit weird...

As for 8th edition - it will be around a lot longer than 2 more years - it just came out!

Sheesh!

Alpharius wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I read this there earlier. I'm hoping 6th edition is a totally combined book, with the army lists and rules put together.

Then, they can release the fluff and painting guides in books like the codexii. I mean painting guides for every model in the range, not three of them

This would make me much happier with the hobby. They could release new options (for the armies) in WD, and the rulebook could have a thing at the back for the WD pages, like a binder, where you could take notes, put your army lists, anything!

Doubt it will happen though, since 8th WHFB is nothing different from the usual. 8th will be around at least another 2 years, maybe longer.

No way at all is this happening with the newxt edition of 40K.

Why people keep wishlisting for it is beyond me, and it is getting a bit weird...

As for 8th edition - it will be around a lot longer than 2 more years - it just came out!

Sheesh!

Hence the phrase "at least"

I'm not really wishlisting. This is just how the hobby would be perfect to me. They do this kind of thing for LotR, iirc. I'm sure 8th will last at least 4 years.

Alpharius wrote:...No way at all is this happening with the newxt edition of 40K.

Why people keep wishlisting for it is beyond me, and it is getting a bit weird...

I can't see it either, and even if it was a plausible idea, we'd end up with a £100+ book of rules (Add an extra £100 for the collector editions). Then, we'd have to lug an obess behmouth of a book (I'd estimate 600 - 1000 pages) around. In the end GW would have to make it out of the stuff they make Bibles from - result: A very heavy and fragile book that is packed full of content, shame it'll be in size 6 print with tiny thumbnail pictures.

Ah, good point. But you're forgetting that the rules are less than a hundred pages, and the important facts about every unit in the game could only take up maybe 250 pages. Without the fluff and pictures, a codex is the size of a good school essay

I can't see the model thing being a big change. What I think will be more of a change is the way things are shaping up with WHFB, in that there is a large selection of rules and generic magic items in the book so that the Codex or Army Book doesn't introduce new mechanics but cherry picks from the rule book. That way the armies can get their flavour from heroes and magic rather than special rules specific to their codex. I also think that they may feel they have reached a critical mass with the number of players on the web and that they will now do more web updates. This will help them avoid 'flavour of the month' armies that might be great on release weekend but leave them with a lot of stock lingering after the army launch. The only other thing with models is not leaving so many entries in the army lists without official models.

I will not be pleased if this keeps my dark eldar codex from me any longer.

I`ve mentioned this before, but back when i was a lad and GW were first introducing plastics (3x multi-part Dwarfs or Orcs for 75p or {i think} £5 for ten packs to make a unit of 30, followed by Undead horde =10 cavalry, a chariot and i think 40 infantry for £10, it was stated that the main cost was the mouldings and that due to the negligible cost of plastic the mini`s would get cheaper and cheaper over time which would allow them to produce armies on the basis of HORDES of very cheap rank and file with a sprinkling of the inevitably more expensive metal characters which would always carry more detail.

Now although the price of plastic has risen in recent years it is still almost nothing when you are talking about 28mm figures-anyone who thinks otherwise try weighing a unit of models then compare to the sprue you are expected to put in the bin.

So if GW is planning to charge what they are worth forget price increases and look forward to 100 strong horde units for £10. (snigger).

On one hand I don't play any more but still want to buy the occasional kit to build, so if this means more plastic kits there's more chance that they'll produce the ones I want to buy. On the other, I have my doubts that GW would produce the one plastic kit I've been waiting for for seven years (plastic Sisters of Battle) without a codex release.

jprp wrote:I`ve mentioned this before, but back when i was a lad and GW were first introducing plastics (3x multi-part Dwarfs or Orcs for 75p or {i think} £5 for ten packs to make a unit of 30, followed by Undead horde =10 cavalry, a chariot and i think 40 infantry for £10, it was stated that the main cost was the mouldings and that due to the negligible cost of plastic the mini`s would get cheaper and cheaper over time which would allow them to produce armies on the basis of HORDES of very cheap rank and file with a sprinkling of the inevitably more expensive metal characters which would always carry more detail.

Now although the price of plastic has risen in recent years it is still almost nothing when you are talking about 28mm figures-anyone who thinks otherwise try weighing a unit of models then compare to the sprue you are expected to put in the bin.

So if GW is planning to charge what they are worth forget price increases and look forward to 100 strong horde units for £10. (snigger).

so what like mantic lol but seriously got a unit of 20 scelitons for 15 bucks.

While it's good to see people taking the phrase "big changes" in possitive light... I hate to be the rain cloud. Big changes are happening because the guy that brought us 5th edition 40K, Alessio Cavatore, has left GW to write a competing rules set for Mantic, Kings of War.

Crapping out all the books at once kills the community enthusiasm for up-and-coming releases however you look at it. They will practically have to release a new edition every year to make up for it.

Models have been getting better already... late 7th ed WHFB and everything since the '09 SW first wave have been evidence of that. Rules have been, in recent years, become much more uniform, and despite the atrocity of the SW book (in terms of lack of clarification), this is also a good thing.

Prices have been rising too fast. Much too fast. Forget the most recent rise, I stopped buying GW models at full price since last year's hike and there is nothing in my opinion that can improve public opinion of GW more than an apology and a price reduction. They will get old customers back and be in a better position to attract new customers. If their new 'focus' is exactly what they have been doing presented in a less enticing 'just get the moneymakers on the shelves' fashion, then I wish you all the best of luck, GW. You've been running on it for a good while now.

GW is not an acronym for 'goodwill', but if there is any direction they need to move in now to change their profit outlook, this is it.

All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Change bad.

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Or they have a really good product

If it somehow magically increases the speed of Codex releases without negatively impacting the content, I'm fine with it. Anything that brings Codex Chaos: Non Horrible Edition closer is fine with me.

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises. And they were profitable last year too... in fact, they have been profitable for several years...

I'm throwing my lot in with the cynics here.

'There's big changes coming, but we won't tell you what they are...' It's starting to sound like Monty Python's election night special (there's a big swing here to the silly party, but how big a swing, I'm not going to tell you)!

GW of course has a proven track record of this kind of thing:
GW 'We're doing something special this year that we have never done before' *nudge, wink*
Customer 'Really? I've heard its Space Hulk.'
GW 'NO! Its definately not that'
[releases Space Hulk...]

The only hopeful sign, as others have pointed out, is that GW is finally getting some serious competition. If companies like Mantic, PP and others get enough market penetration, GW will be forced to address why their customers are jumping ship and make major changes. If they're clever, they'll anticipate the current trend and make those changes now, thus nipping in the bud the development of potential competition.

As this is GW, however (and let's face it, they've consistently shown an inability to think strategically over the long term) what they're likely to do is to make the minimum change they think they can get away with to retain customers and short-term profitability. This won't make GW's competitors go away, but it may stave them off for a few years, thus keeping the shareholders happy until the next crisis comes along...

chaos0xomega wrote:

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises. And they were profitable last year too... in fact, they have been profitable for several years...

Another big (almost 10%) price rise did just happen, not that I care anymore. As said, I don't buy their stuff at RRP since last year's hike, let alone this one. 'Profitable' does not mean making a sustainable profit or having a strong stock index. If they were really pricing their products below their value, then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever. What they did last financial year is 'priced their products at less than they would like to be able to sell them for', and regardless, they made an overall profit.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:Models have been getting better already... late 7th ed WHFB and everything since the '09 SW first wave have been evidence of that.

I'm not ready to go that far. What have we seen recently?

The good
The excellent Eldar Fireprism Kit
The Leman Russ Battle tank
The fantastic River trolls
The very nice Skaven first wave

The flawed
The Blood Angels line, which while showing fine sculpting technique is one of the most ridiculously OTT-designed lines GW has ever produced
The Space Wolves line, which ranges from truly inspiring (Njal) to passable but strange (Lukas, SW Pack) to the profoundly silly (Canis Wolfborn)
The great IG Manticore (and the bafflingly designed Deathstrike)
Daemons second wave, of which the only kit that seems to generate consistent approval is the Bloodcrushers set- almost identical to the first-wave metal model
The Beastmen gors and ungors, which despite some silly details are decent chiefly by being extremely close to the old designs

The ugly
The Eldar Support platform kit
The widely-criticised Boar Boyz
The rest of the Beastman line, but especially the Minotaurs and Razor gor, which plumb new depths of terrible sculpting

Now not everyone will agree with me about the quality of each kit, but the fact that there is so much inconsistency in what's been put out lately speaks very poorly of GW overall quality. They are capable of being truly great, but hit that mark I'd say less than half the time. And yet they want to justify calling themselves a luxury product and charging prices fitting their "good" releases, pretending everything they do fits into that category. But what's inexcusable is an inferior model (support platform, plastic daemonettes) replacing and making superior models unavailible. Not only does that take away good models from the customers, it wastes GW's development resources.

Prices have been rising too fast. Much too fast. Forget the most recent rise, I stopped buying GW models at full price since last year's hike and there is nothing in my opinion that can improve public opinion of GW more than an apology and a price reduction.

I could care less about an apology, but a price reduction would be quite welcome. Or alternatively, I would stop complaining about prices if GW just got some quality control to guarantee that every release is at least the quality level of the things I put in the good category above, or better.

Well that's a matter of opinion. The wolf looks like a cat in the Canis kit, true. The boars are different, yes, but they are more detailed and animated than the old ones by an great degree, and even if they are not your preference, in my opinion they fit the image of an Orc horde much better. The minotaurs too... they look wrong, but they are plastic, and they are better and more detailed than the old ones.

It doesn't have to be perfect to be better. I can't say they kick a goal every time, but I mean, look at the Ork plastics since the last codex. An absolute improvement.

I think the new Blood Angels are ridiculous but I have always thought Blood Angels were ridiculous.

JOHIRA wrote:The ugly
The Eldar Support platform kit
The widely-criticised Boar Boyz
The rest of the Beastman line, but especially the Minotaurs and Razor gor, which plumb new depths of terrible sculpting

How about the Basilisk. Same model, no options like the new Leman Russ tanks, big new model price tag. Total disappointment.

Given the thread title, i carn't say i'm suprised.

Firstly we are in the middle of a recession, i dont know how things are over in the states! but in the UK it's hit a lot of people hard, me included.

Now we are pushing out of recession, with rival companies gaining speed, GW are gonna look at what they do well and push that further, and if i'm honest they do some of the best models you can get. So naturally they are gonna push that! look at Space Hulk last year, i remember reading in WD that they really wanted to use the game as a way of showcasing how good they can make their products, high quallity models etc. Looking at the two awards it won as noted in this months WD and the fact that i've got a copy and know how well done the whole thing is, and this can only lend towards the thinking that they are trying to push the quallity of their products up.

I personally fee lthat the models in recent months have been a real step forward, and i hope it continues.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:It doesn't have to be perfect to be better. I can't say they kick a goal every time, but I mean, look at the Ork plastics since the last codex. An absolute improvement.

But we're not paying for "better than the last codex". By Games Workshop's own financial statements, we are paying for the best miniatures on the market, top-quality luxury goods. So if GW says they're the best, and they want to charge prices like they're the best, then I expect them to actually be the best. No corner-cutting allowed.

So the news is more minis for everyone and more price hikes.

Considering at this point I am only waiting on Sisters and considering GW has done their damn best to squat them in the past few years, this entire thread seems like wasted time.

Now, if someone in the know wishes to correct me with something more substantial then 'their coming but are a ways off' then go right ahead. Till then I'm woking on my Malifaux warbands.

JOHIRA wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:It doesn't have to be perfect to be better. I can't say they kick a goal every time, but I mean, look at the Ork plastics since the last codex. An absolute improvement.

But we're not paying for "better than the last codex". By Games Workshop's own financial statements, we are paying for the best miniatures on the market, top-quality luxury goods. So if GW says they're the best, and they want to charge prices like they're the best, then I expect them to actually be the best. No corner-cutting allowed.

My answer to this is in my post prior to the one you quoted. I don't agree with the magnitude of their two most recent price hikes. That said, I'm not going to have a fit about it. I'm happy to pay full price at non-GW stores because I know exactly what the markup is, and how hard it is to keep a hobby establishment kicking. I'm not happy at where 'full price' has gone, but that's what I've been saying.

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

But you are ignoring the fact that GW had it's most profitable year in 2004, during which they also increased prices (and tried to monopolize internet sales). Then, when the LotR bubble burst in 2005, they increased prices. As the housing market boomed, they increased prices. Then, as the economy tanked, they increased prices. Now, as the economy is trying to recover, they increased prices.

There has really been only one constant in the way GW handles business. GW increases prices.

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

I disagree. Like any other business that answers to shareholders, they will increase the price of their models so long as the market will bear it.

I don't make anything from the rumors. Nothing substantial was said. All of that junk can be sumed up with "We're gonna do some stuff, just wait and see."

Sorry if someone's already said this but...

If GW are going to be spending more time on the models (therefore less time on the rules). How is this in any way news or a rumour as opposed to a statement of fact regarding their 'progress' over the last half decade?

Cadaver wrote:
Check this out if you haven't seen it. I found it to be a really interesting and informative read.

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it yet! As for the GW rumors, it would be great if they could address some of the aspects of their buisiness that draw the most anger (the price raises and out of date books being the major ones for me). On the otherhand, they aren't doing too bad right now from my perspective, so I won't be too disappointed if nothing comes of this.

Scottywan82 wrote: As a long-time Codex: Not Marines Player, I can tell you that some of those Codex: Marines entries are broken. It's like GW doesn't even care about MY army at all.

Alpharius wrote:Are you a...

...Dark Eldar player?!?

Maybe he's a Squats player.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises. And they were profitable last year too... in fact, they have been profitable for several years...

Another big (almost 10%) price rise did just happen, not that I care anymore. As said, I don't buy their stuff at RRP since last year's hike, let alone this one. 'Profitable' does not mean making a sustainable profit or having a strong stock index. If they were really pricing their products below their value, then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever. What they did last financial year is 'priced their products at less than they would like to be able to sell them for', and regardless, they made an overall profit.

Value of a product =/= cost of production. The true value of an object is determined by the price the market has set for it, I.E. - how much money people are willing to purchase it for. When GW says that their product is priced below its value, that means that they feel they are charging less than the amount of money people are willing to pay for the product.

Kogwar wrote:

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Or they have a really good product

Riight.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises. And they were profitable last year too... in fact, they have been profitable for several years...

Another big (almost 10%) price rise did just happen, not that I care anymore. As said, I don't buy their stuff at RRP since last year's hike, let alone this one. 'Profitable' does not mean making a sustainable profit or having a strong stock index. If they were really pricing their products below their value, then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever. What they did last financial year is 'priced their products at less than they would like to be able to sell them for', and regardless, they made an overall profit.

Value of a product =/= cost of production. The true value of an object is determined by the price the market has set for it, I.E. - how much money people are willing to purchase it for. When GW says that their product is priced below its value, that means that they feel they are charging less than the amount of money people are willing to pay for the product.

... did I not pretty much say that?

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises

It's true, and I don't fully grasp the thought behind that comment. If they're making a good profit, then they're probably not charging less than their actual value. When one compares them to other injection molded kits, they're also not undercosted.

So I agree, it could mean they intend to jack up prices, but I can't fathom why they'd change their pricing model when they're (as I understand it) quite profitable. It's economics 101. You have to find the best combination of price and sales volume. Generally speaking, if you're making a good profit, you're probably about right with that, especially with a luxury product, which should not be doing well in the current climate.

As this is GW, however (and let's face it, they've consistently shown an inability to think strategically over the long term)

I dunno man, unless I'm failing to undertand their most recent financial report, it sounds to me like their current management is exceedingly good at the business side. So, if you mean strategically in terms of the details of products, maybe... But if you mean in terms of taking on debt, investing in technology, general operational business concerns, then I think they're quite smart strategically.

It might be nice to have more competition, but it can also backfire. As it stands, 40K is very popular, and thus easy to find a game... But now that Fantasy came out, I've had a bit more trouble finding a game, some days people are playing Fantasy instead. Also, as Warmachine gains steam, some people are playing that.

So, if there is more competition, it might get to the point where it's prohibitively difficult to get a game.

Of course, it might also cause a drop in prices, a cross pollenation in ideas, etc. etc.

wizard1 wrote:

In the end GW would have to make it out of the stuff they make Bibles from .

Vellum parchment bound in kids' skin
Hand written in the GW Nottingham scriptorium and lavishly illuminated.
Ultramarines painted using genuine ultramarine.
Blood Angels painted with true vermillion pigments.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

wizard12 wrote:

In the end GW would have to make it out of the stuff they make Bibles from .

Vellum parchment bound in kids' skin

Dude, not cool.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:

wizard12 wrote:

In the end GW would have to make it out of the stuff they make Bibles from .

Vellum parchment bound in kids' skin

Dude, not cool.

hopefully he means a young goat...

At my FLGS, the owner always talks about how GW games are really becoming the game of kings.... and he is right. The prices are really high and according to this thread still rising.

Someone pointed out the price - quantity change and it sounds like GW is really cranking it up a notch in quality and hoping that their intro games are going to keep bringing in new players. Assault on Black Reach and Island of Blood are a tremendous value in terms of what they provide in box, but they also represent a commitment far beyond just another board game. Will younger players be enthralled enough by these intro boxes that they will be willing to shell out $50.00+ for every additional unit that they decide to add to their army? Will these new players paint their armies and remain active gamers? It takes a lot of money and effort to collect and paint a nice GW army, but it is something that I find to be worth it.

It sounds as though GW is also counting on its "followers" to keep buying regardless of the price. As someone who has been playing these games for almost twenty years, I'm feeling pretty tapped out in terms of buying new models and starting new armies. Island of Blood may attract a lot of new players to fantasy, particularly from the 40K scene, but the commitment is daunting. I get exhausted just thinking about buying, painting, and modeling all of those soldiers. My GW purchases have diminished greatly over the last three years. GW makes some fantastic models, but having good rules and making the game better is what keeps me interested in the hobby because I feel that I can leverage all the time and energy that I've invested already.

Disregarding the gameplay is a major problem, because no matter how great the models are, if the game sucks it will sink the ship.

40K has too many crazy armies to work with the "all at once" method of Privateer Press. Not to mention that GW doesn't have that many codex writers (much less good codex writers). Now if GW has decided to finally stop giving out books to random douchebags that result in equally random products (i.e. Ward powerhouse vs. Jervis snorefest), then that's great.

They may not be able to do all the books at once, but a dedicated and permanent design team that works on all the factions would be able to release rules updates and clarifications much more quickly, as well as keep all the various armies on the same design methodology.

just to clarify
Of course I meant a young goat

but now you come to mention it mwhahahaha

Samwise158 wrote:It sounds as though GW is also counting on its "followers" to keep buying regardless of the price.

That's exactly what it says in their financial report.

I find it hard to imagine prices being any higher than they already are. It's seriously getting to the point where I can't keep up the hobby anymore, I haven't bought anything new at full price since January when Tyranids came out (come to think of it I haven't really bought anything used, either). Which I'm thinking about selling on eBay anyway, due to lack of interest since GW fethed over Tyranids with the FAQ, invalidating an army build and nerfing things that weren't broken. And it took them 6 months to come out with that piece of crap, too...it was just a huge step backward and it's really put me off.

The idea of paying $50 for 3 plastic models, or over $60 for a single plastic tank (which doesn't came anywhere near the same level of quality as other $60+ model kits from other companies like Tamiya) infuriates me. And it's just going to keep going up every year, $2 here, $5 there. Before you know it land raiders will be $80. And the quality of those models hasn't been improving, either. The entire Beastmen release and Daemons second wave (and most of the stuff they got in their initial release actually) is proof enough of that. GW is really hit and miss with their quality lately.

Not only that but the constant GW price hikes impinge on the second hand market as well. Ebay used to be a good place to pick stuff up at a good price but all it has lead to now is people going on the GW website and seeing that x unit is worth £x now so that's what my 10 year old blobbily painted piece of crap is too.

Samwise158 wrote:It sounds as though GW is also counting on its "followers" to keep buying regardless of the price.

Isn't that the basis for any business?

Reply by: AlexHolker - click to view full reply 

31545

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 12:09:35

Post by: AlexHolker

Lennysmash wrote:

Samwise158 wrote:It sounds as though GW is also counting on its "followers" to keep buying regardless of the price.

Isn't that the basis for any business?

No. The basis for any business is that people won't keep buying regardless of price, or else you could just charge infinity dollars for your product and get away with it. A business manager has to balance the need to improve the contribution margin (the amount of extra profit from selling an extra unit) by increasing prices with the need to improve the number of units sold by decreasing prices, in order to maximise profit.

Brand loyalty and goodwill help to make your sales numbers less vulnerable to the negative effect of price increases, but not immune.

Reply by: P4NC4K3 - click to view full reply 

5644

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 12:35:31

Post by: P4NC4K3

deejaybainbridge wrote:Given the thread title, i carn't say i'm suprised.

Firstly we are in the middle of a recession, i dont know how things are over in the states! but in the UK it's hit a lot of people hard, me included.

Not sure about this, I remember hearing on the news that the recession in Britain was officially over, even if it isn't we are, as you said, on the way out. This makes me optimistic about seeing a few price drops later on from GW.

In the meantime, though, would it be a good idea if they rejiggled their prices around, charging more perhaps for special characters and other minis that really, you're only gonna buy once. But reducing the price for mainstay units such as Tactical Squads or Imperial Guard Infantry Boxes. Now that the majority of these core units come in boxes of 10, really the maximum price I would be willing to pay is £12.

Reply by: reds8n - click to view full reply 

5394

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 12:55:52

Post by: reds8n

P4NC4K3 wrote:

Not sure about this, I remember hearing on the news that the recession in Britain was officially over, even if it isn't we are, as you said, on the way out. This makes me optimistic about seeing a few

I wouldn't hold your breath. Basically they assume and work off of a 20% price hike on a product every 4-5 years.

We might, perhaps, see less higher priced box sets like the Great/goldswords, but that's about as good as we'll see, aside from more and more units moving to plastic and saving (YMMV of course) us money that way.

Reply by: Sidstyler - click to view full reply 

10093

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 13:14:15

Post by: Sidstyler

The basis for any business is that people won't keep buying regardless of price, or else you could just charge infinity dollars for your product and get away with it.

I always ask myself why GW hasn't tried that yet. Everyone is always quick to point out that GW is a business and making money is all that matters, so why not charge $1000 for a box of Space Marines?

Hey, we'd buy it! We're all loyal "followers" of GW and we'll buy anything at any price, right guys?!

Reply by: karimabuseer - click to view full reply 

20895

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 13:19:39

Post by: karimabuseer

I sense sarcasm in your post, Sidstyler

Reply by: Chibi Bodge-Battle - click to view full reply 

25141

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 13:30:40

Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle

As to the recession
yes in Britain things picked up.
But that doesn't mean that it's boomtown .

If you listen only to the news headlines you will know that government spending cutbacks are causing job losses.

This is looking likely to return an already depressed economy back into recession.

Reply by: oni - click to view full reply 

7680

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 14:30:25

Post by: oni

GW is certainly in need of some big changes. I'm forever reading about how poor the company strategy is and how poorly their employees are treated. Most of all the blatent disregard for customers and quality.

And with Alessio gone they're now faced with the growing presence of competition. Necessity fuels invention... GW's asshatery has forced the hands of enthusiasts to create their own game systems and take on the GW juggernaut in the retail battlefield.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW moved all of their production to China. UK taxes are absurdly high and are only going to get worse. I think a majority of the customer base is at a breaking point for pricing. I know I'm getting dangerously close myself.

Reply by: Chibi Bodge-Battle - click to view full reply 

25141

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 14:56:34

Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle

Not sure taxes will get worse and they aren't that bad. Maybe relative to the USA they are.

However, much production has been shifted out to China, presumabbly to keep labour costs down.

Reply by: gorgon - click to view full reply 

181

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 15:02:49

Post by: gorgon

A few points.

I think a lot of these changes are things we've *already seen,* as Gymnogyps pointed out on page 1. Have they been earthshattering? No, not really. But then again we're talking about GW, a notoriously inflexible company.

I've read rumors that the DE waves for instance will be only a few months apart. That just kinda makes sense to us, but I can imagine GW seeing it as some kind of breakthrough. One change that I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned is all the recent codex entries without minis (Stormravens, half the Tyranid codex, etc.). Again, doesn't completely alter our hobby as we know it, but for GW it's probably breaking some kind of mental barrier.

Another important point here is that steppingonyou seems to be a little mixed in his accuracy. I'd take him with a grain of salt.

I have no inside knowledge, but I really, really expect that we've already seen many of these changes, and that future changes will continue to be more incremental than monumental.

Reply by: zombie - click to view full reply 

9194

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 15:09:37

Post by: zombie

Sidstyler wrote:I find it hard to imagine prices being any higher than they already are. It's seriously getting to the point where I can't keep up the hobby anymore, I haven't bought anything new at full price since January when Tyranids came out (come to think of it I haven't really bought anything used, either). Which I'm thinking about selling on eBay anyway, due to lack of interest since GW fethed over Tyranids with the FAQ, invalidating an army build and nerfing things that weren't broken. And it took them 6 months to come out with that piece of crap, too...it was just a huge step backward and it's really put me off.

The idea of paying $50 for 3 plastic models, or over $60 for a single plastic tank (which doesn't came anywhere near the same level of quality as other $60+ model kits from other companies like Tamiya) infuriates me. And it's just going to keep going up every year, $2 here, $5 there. Before you know it land raiders will be $80. And the quality of those models hasn't been improving, either. The entire Beastmen release and Daemons second wave (and most of the stuff they got in their initial release actually) is proof enough of that. GW is really hit and miss with their quality lately.

Still be thankful that you are not in Oz with our down under bonus tacked onto the price. UK prices for some are about 50% cheaper.

GW is just out of my budget when for the price of box of terminators I can get an entire starter army for Firestorm

I have accepted that I am not going to be playing much of warhammer fantasy/40k so now I am just selecting my fav models before planning on selling the rest. I will scan the articles out of the White Dwarf issues I have before trying to flog them off on ebay cheap. Me and Ebay are going to become good friends selling the GW stash I have.

Reply by: chaos0xomega - click to view full reply 

7075

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 15:34:40

Post by: chaos0xomega

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Arctik_Firangi wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Phryxis wrote:All the cynical "price gouging" talk is ignoring GW's most recent round of financial statements. They were profitable this year, and they just paid off a significant amount of debt. They will not need to increase prices in order to remain profitable, so they probably will not do so.

It's tempting to do the whole "they're just greedy idiots" thing, but the fact is GW is making a profit in a luxury product during a major global economic slowdown. If they were greedy idiots, they would not be having that level of success.

Except in those same financial statements the CEO states that they have priced their products lower than their actual value, suggesting more price rises. And they were profitable last year too... in fact, they have been profitable for several years...

Another big (almost 10%) price rise did just happen, not that I care anymore. As said, I don't buy their stuff at RRP since last year's hike, let alone this one. 'Profitable' does not mean making a sustainable profit or having a strong stock index. If they were really pricing their products below their value, then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever. What they did last financial year is 'priced their products at less than they would like to be able to sell them for', and regardless, they made an overall profit.

Value of a product =/= cost of production. The true value of an object is determined by the price the market has set for it, I.E. - how much money people are willing to purchase it for. When GW says that their product is priced below its value, that means that they feel they are charging less than the amount of money people are willing to pay for the product.

... did I not pretty much say that?

No... errr... maybe.... I dunno, I understood the "if they were really pricing their products below their value then they could not be making any definable profit whatsoever" as an argument that their value was tied to their cost of production

oni wrote:GW is certainly in need of some big changes. I'm forever reading about how poor the company strategy is and how poorly their employees are treated. Most of all the blatent disregard for customers and quality.

And with Alessio gone they're now faced with the growing presence of competition. Necessity fuels invention... GW's asshatery has forced the hands of enthusiasts to create their own game systems and take on the GW juggernaut in the retail battlefield.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW moved all of their production to China. UK taxes are absurdly high and are only going to get worse. I think a majority of the customer base is at a breaking point for pricing. I know I'm getting dangerously close myself.

I know I am. For the first time in 7+ years of playing I'd rather spend money on another game system than GW stuff (Firestorm/Uncharted right now, looking at FoW, as well as historical ACW). I haven't truly bought anything new in over a year, and I actually have a pile of stuff that I'm trying to sell.

Reply by: Howard A Treesong - click to view full reply 

7361

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 15:37:45

Post by: Howard A Treesong

Sidstyler wrote:I find it hard to imagine prices being any higher than they already are. It's seriously getting to the point where I can't keep up the hobby anymore, I haven't bought anything new at full price since January when Tyranids came out (come to think of it I haven't really bought anything used, either). Which I'm thinking about selling on eBay anyway, due to lack of interest since GW fethed over Tyranids with the FAQ, invalidating an army build and nerfing things that weren't broken. And it took them 6 months to come out with that piece of crap, too...it was just a huge step backward and it's really put me off.

The idea of paying $50 for 3 plastic models, or over $60 for a single plastic tank (which doesn't came anywhere near the same level of quality as other $60+ model kits from other companies like Tamiya) infuriates me. And it's just going to keep going up every year, $2 here, $5 there. Before you know it land raiders will be $80. And the quality of those models hasn't been improving, either. The entire Beastmen release and Daemons second wave (and most of the stuff they got in their initial release actually) is proof enough of that. GW is really hit and miss with their quality lately.

I thought £20 for the regiment boxsets were the ceiling, £20 for a box of 10 Marines. At least you only have to dig out a £20 note, but with them going up again I thought there would be a psychological barrier to sales. People hand over £20 note, fair enough, but having to hand over £30 worth of notes and getting pocket money back, well that starts to bring home the cost, even though the price rise isn't a great deal more than what was being paid before. Either way GW have made rises just as they have in the past and rely heavily on the good will and loyalty of customers as well as newcomers who have little appreciation of costs. That can't last forever, no matter how much people want their GW fix there's an absolute limit to everything. I think it's overly optimistic that many people will turn from GW to other manufacturers, undoubtedly some will but many will just quit the hobby.

Reply by: Chibi Bodge-Battle - click to view full reply 

25141

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 15:54:48

Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle

When I start expanding my Dwarves will more than likely be going for Mantic or possibly see if I can pick some GW Dwarves off ebay.

Probably the former because of the boxing strategy they have. No faffing around with stupid in between unit size numbers for a good price.

As I am unlikely to be playing in GW stores or events there won't be any problems.

Reply by: chaos0xomega - click to view full reply 

7075

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 15:58:02

Post by: chaos0xomega

Well... there is a benefit to all this... with every price rise, I feel a little bitbetterabout buying Forgeworld stuff...

Reply by: Chibi Bodge-Battle - click to view full reply 

25141

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 16:03:14

Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle

hang on while I swig half a bottle of scotch for that to seem reasonable.




nope, still makes no sense, better polish the bottle off.


AH shee what you meand now!
I love you you're my besht mate Chaosh.

Reply by: P4NC4K3 - click to view full reply 

5644

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 16:27:14

Post by: P4NC4K3

reds8n wrote:

P4NC4K3 wrote:

Not sure about this, I remember hearing on the news that the recession in Britain was officially over, even if it isn't we are, as you said, on the way out. This makes me optimistic about seeing a few

I wouldn't hold your breath. Basically they assume and work off of a 20% price hike on a product every 4-5 years.

We might, perhaps, see less higher priced box sets like the Great/goldswords, but that's about as good as we'll see, aside from more and more units moving to plastic and saving (YMMV of course) us money that way.

I get the feeling that you're right. I certainly do not want a repeat of the Greatsword situation, those prices are INSANE!

Reply by: Slipstream - click to view full reply 

10143

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 16:32:36

Post by: Slipstream

The consensus seems to be that they are getting ready to try and make us pay more for the hobby.
I no longer buy new GW stuff,discovered the joys of dettol and second hand stuff.So what if the new models are better?If you I can't afford them now I certainly can't afford them when this big change occurs.
On the question of codexes;do we really need them?Why not drop all that meaningless hobby stuff that they pad out the main rulebook with and instead give individual army rules?Any updates and fixes could be done in WDd.

Reply by: chaos0xomega - click to view full reply 

7075

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 16:52:06

Post by: chaos0xomega

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:hang on while I swig half a bottle of scotch for that to seem reasonable.




nope, still makes no sense, better polish the bottle off.


AH shee what you meand now!
I love you you're my besht mate Chaosh.

Makes perfect sense. Every time the price on Citadel plastics goes up, the price gets closer to FWs prices. Eventually it gets to the point that, if I'm going to spend a large sum of money on toy soldiers, I might as well toss an extra 5 bucks in there and get the cooler looking piece from FW.

Reply by: Samus_aran115 - click to view full reply 

27872

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 16:59:43

Post by: Samus_aran115

If GW rises it's prices more, I'm sure I'll just buy from them anyway. It really doesn't bother me at all. Not sure why people get pissed off all the time. Just buy less and stop feeding your addiction :3

Reply by: Ian Sturrock - click to view full reply 

13192

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 17:05:01

Post by: Ian Sturrock

I would very happily buy one big book with all the rules for all the armies in, even if it cost more than the current rulebook + 1-2 codexes. Yes, yes, I know, it probably won't happen. But it would make sense to me:

* Balanced rules, with every army balanced against every other, because they were designed with the same philosophy.

* Easy access to *all* the game rules, for competitive & tourney players.

* Separate books on fluff and painting for those more into that.

* More cash available for me to spend on minis because I'm not hunting for eBay bargains for 2nd-hand codexes so I can get rules for armies I don't even play.

Anyway -- meanwhile -- I had been contemplating picking up Warhammer Fantasy, what with the new edition, and the new starter set, but I can't afford it, partly thanks to the recession & partly thanks to the GW price rises, so Mantic is going to get my cash instead. Oh, and I bought lots of minis just before the VAT rise in January, and a few more just before the latest GW price hike, so I have enough to be painting for at least the rest of the year, anyway.

Reply by: AlexHolker - click to view full reply 

31545

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 17:16:11

Post by: AlexHolker

chaos0xomega wrote:Makes perfect sense. Every time the price on Citadel plastics goes up, the price gets closer to FWs prices. Eventually it gets to the point that, if I'm going to spend a large sum of money on toy soldiers, I might as well toss an extra 5 bucks in there and get the cooler looking piece from FW.

GW Rhino through GWAU: $55

Forgeworld Immolator kit: $43

Not supporting GWAU's insane business strategy: Priceless

Reply by: chaos0xomega - click to view full reply 

7075

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 17:18:26

Post by: chaos0xomega

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW.......

Am I glad I don't live in Aussie/Kiwi land...

Although... it is very beautiful down there...

Reply by: Chibi Bodge-Battle - click to view full reply 

25141

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 17:44:40

Post by: Chibi Bodge-Battle

Only joshing Chaos
knew that you meant it that way

I agree Ian.
The codex/army book for each faction you are collecting is hard enough for me.
No chance for all the others

Reply by: Laughing Man - click to view full reply 

30305

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 18:19:43

Post by: Laughing Man

chaos0xomega wrote:WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW.......

Am I glad I don't live in Aussie/Kiwi land...

Although... it is very beautiful down there...

Yeah, but the wildlife hates you and wants you to die, drop bears are evil, and internet speeds are horrible.

But seriously? FW prices are already cheaper? There is something very wrong about that...

Reply by: Alpharius - click to view full reply 

123

Big changes ahead for Games Workshop? @ 2010/08/03 18:39:37

Post by: Alpharius

OK, seems like we've drifted rather far afield here...

...all done!