2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
Shocked this hasn't been cross posted yet but here you go---posted by StickMonkey and some parts confirmed by Harry;
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269877
So there's been some buzz elsewhere about GK, and it's been a while for me here so here's some bits and pieces.
Heavy rumors of Jan release. I cannot deny this possibility, but I might be personally inclined to say March, only because some items I expect to be released arent far enough to see how they could be done for Jan release.
Release items:
Codex: there is much less focus on Inquisition aspects, and no SoB. No Allies. A GK army.
Boxes:
Storm Raven. obvious choice. Options for BA, GK and ???
TA knights: 5 pack, Paladin upgrades, squad upgrades. Psycannon, NFW, SSTH, banner?
PA knights: 10 pack, justicar upgrades, squad upgrades, extra bits. NFW, psycannon, incinerator, banner?
walker: There have been some rumors of a GK driven walker. I have not personally seen this in any incarnation. However, there is a boxed walker of some type. I suspect this is a dreadnaught box set that will also have bits for BA.
Tank: I have not seen mention of a GK troop transport. Rhino based with psycannon options has been in some PT. I list this as possible, but unlikely, 4 box sets of this size are about par for a release, 5 would be a surprise.
Blisters:
New Stern
New Chaplain?
Justicar upgrade character
Paladin upgrade character
Inquisition character
2 other blisters unknown contents
Other:
Later release of GK themed terrain set? Concepts are out and some "preview" shots are floating around if you hunt. Nothing more I can say on this.
Rule bits, these are very subject to revision, but not for much longer, to hit a Jan/Mar window codex needs to be tied up and sent to printers soon:
NFW lose the changing abilities based on rank of user. standardized to PA NFW is PW with special abilities vs Daemons, TA NFW is FW with same.
Some interesting Psychic abilities. just about all squads have psychic options. Heavy on they disabling side. Enemy psychers beware.
Not a lot of Mech. But quick to deploy.
Psycannon profile PT changes to 24" H3 AP3 S6, special against daemons and psychics. or if unmoving 5" blast 36" range
Army wide. Daemonic Infestation makes summoned demons less instable?
No allies from/to other Codii. new fodder units in codex. not same as guard units.
New options for Dreadnaughts including libby. psycannon arm. Purge weapon...large pie plate, special abilities include forcing instability test for daemons, including DoC armies, pinning in other armies.
All for now.
enjoy
StickMonkey
Just in time for Adepticon next year!
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Harry said that it is a strange mix of correct and incorrect rumours, so I wait until things get sorted out.
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Looks cool. It'd be really cool if we got a stormraven model. I'm almost counting on it.
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
New fodder units? Large pie plate? Count me curious.
29408
Post by: Melissia
By the wya, it's pretty clear all GKs have a 2+ save. PAGKs are in artificer armor.
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Melissia wrote:By the wya, it's pretty clear all GKs have a 2+ save. PAGKs are in artificer armor.
Woah,really? Not with the old models though...Can't wait to see plastics!
29408
Post by: Melissia
Yeah, Harry is extremely insistent on it, as are others.
25443
Post by: JSK-Fox
Now that is scary.
And people think normal marine hordes are bad!
32139
Post by: Bronzi_The_BadlandBelcher
Army wide. Daemonic Infestation makes summoned demons less instable?
What the feth does this mean? is this like the optional rules for possession in the old dex? INstable?! I am bamboozled beyond flabergastation
29408
Post by: Melissia
Anyone who isn't a Guard player with lots of AP3 large blasts anyway.
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Wow. What's the point of even using termies if they all have artsy armour?
More importantly, why would anyone pay for termies if they can get cheaper 2+ saves?
25443
Post by: JSK-Fox
5+ Invulnerable Saves.
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Doesn't artsy give some invul?
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
Nope, plain 2+, although I'm not sure a lousy 5+ invul is worth it really, when you consider how easy it is to get a 4+ cover which is almost as good.
3934
Post by: grizgrin
negative, ghost rider.
10086
Post by: Neconilis
Samus_aran115 wrote:Doesn't artsy give some invul?
No, artificer armor is only a 2+ armor save.
3934
Post by: grizgrin
negative, ghost rider.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I wouldn't be surprised if someone got their wires crossed, a good number of the things Harry seemed skeptical of were in some proposed updates to the Grey Knights, I made a while ago and posted in that section of this forum.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
*Shrug*, completely depends on points and wargear options.
Think of GK Terminators with the option to wield NFWs...and Stormshields....that would certainly motivate me to take them.
Samus_aran115 wrote:Wow. What's the point of even using termies if they all have artsy armour?
More importantly, why would anyone pay for termies if they can get cheaper 2+ saves?
29408
Post by: Melissia
IIRC, it was that GK terminator squads were going to have special psychic powers. Also, they can move and fire heavy weapons without problems (though I don't know if the GKs are going to get any).
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Unless GW decides any of these should be built in weakness, there are a number of easily identified additions that would suit the Grey Knights. The most obvious are the need for fast attack and heavy support choices. The stormraven alleviates that. To compound the lack of heavy support units is a lack of heavy weapons within the terminator and power armored squads. The simple fact is a codex really isn't a codex if it doesn't have at least a couple of units to choose from in each FOC. As a starting point of just "Grey Knights" they pretty much have only one unit per FOC, so there is a need for GW to invent new units or in the very least build in to the GK Inquisitor and inducted units as entries in the new codex.
Needless to say I'm looking forward to seeing how GW chooses to fix the short comings, given their starting point.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
Pretty good point there. One thing I did notice from the rumours....is no talk of AT capability (Other than pretty expensive/fragile StormRavens).
aka_mythos wrote:Unless GW decides any of these should be built in weakness, there are a number of easily identified additions that would suit the Grey Knights. The most obvious are the need for fast attack and heavy support choices. The stormraven alleviates that. To compound the lack of heavy support units is a lack of heavy weapons within the terminator and power armored squads. The simple fact is a codex really isn't a codex if it doesn't have at least a couple of units to choose from in each FOC. As a starting point of just "Grey Knights" they pretty much have only one unit per FOC, so there is a need for GW to invent new units or in the very least build in to the GK Inquisitor and inducted units as entries in the new codex.
Needless to say I'm looking forward to seeing how GW chooses to fix the short comings, given their starting point.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
GK will certainly still have Landraider and Dreadnought that's not a big help but its a start. I don't see them introducing any GK versions of marine tanks, predators etc. Giving them Rhinos maybe Razorbacks is one thing but too much more and you wash out the distinctions the Grey Knights have over other marine armies.
10895
Post by: Ironhide
Of course, what are their points cost going to be? Are they going to stay at 25 for PA, and 61 for TDA? Or are they going to decrease/increase them? Points cost will determine how good they will be.
29408
Post by: Melissia
My guess is anti-tank psychic powers.
3963
Post by: Fishboy
I am still curious about what USR they will get. The army needs the ability to either outflank or DS and still remain a troop choice. FNP for their cost would be great too but now I am just wishlisting hehe.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Ironhide wrote:Of course, what are their points cost going to be? Are they going to stay at 25 for PA, and 61 for TDA? Or are they going to decrease/increase them? Points cost will determine how good they will be.
Considering the way things have been trending with 40k, I'd guess TDA GK to drop to 50 and PA to drop to 20, or stay at 25 if the artificer armor rumor is true.
268
Post by: Mosg
I'm surprised to see that they're planning on keeping anti-demon specials.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Mosg wrote:I'm surprised to see that they're planning on keeping anti-demon specials.
Daemonhunters with special rules to fight daemons!?
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
If we're going to get Grey Knights, and they're going to release the StormRaven, which should be a big seller, why isn't this a December release to catch the Holiday gift money?
29408
Post by: Melissia
Brother SRM wrote:Mosg wrote:I'm surprised to see that they're planning on keeping anti-demon specials.
Daemonhunters with special rules to fight daemons!?
They could have done this without having it be unable to effect other non-daemon armies.
Ignoring invulnerable saves is less useful against other armies, but still has its use, for example.
10347
Post by: Fafnir
JohnHwangDD wrote:If we're going to get Grey Knights, and they're going to release the StormRaven, which should be a big seller, why isn't this a December release to catch the Holiday gift money?
Remember, this is GW we're talking about.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Exactly. Usually, GW is good about doing those things which generate money...
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
why isn't this a December release to catch the Holiday gift money?
Why ask a question to which everyone who's been buying GW stuff for more than one year already knows the answer? For the small number of people reading this who haven't been buying GW stuff long enough to know, December for the past several years is the month that GW releases specialty and limited release items like the Mega-Paint Set, variety color army cases and other items they believe will sell well as gifts at that time of year. Last year's big new thing was the Fortress of Redemption along with old favorites like the Mega-Paint Set and other December splash releases. Unless this year will be different than the past five years, GW does not do large regular stock item releases for their core games during December. They save those for the months just before and after to keep the cash flow going steadily instead of dropping off just before or after December. And Grey Knights in January will catch quite a bit of holiday gift money. Anyone wanting an expensive Grey Knights army who is lucky enough to get a bunch of money as a gift in December can then spend the money on the new Grey Knights in January, assuming that is the January release. Again, this keeps the cash flow steady in the post-holiday shopping frenzy. It worked last year with Tyranids in January, didn't it?
7433
Post by: plastictrees
BrassScorpion wrote:blah
This makes sense. Stormravens will sell like hotcakes at any time. No sense in undermining starter set/paint set holiday purchases.
22761
Post by: Kurgash
Really it will just turn out to be an army that looks scary at first then you find it's flaws and the book turns out to be another cheap means of generating income via bandwagoning *IE Blood Angels* Sure those GK sound scary but why would you charge out and meet them hand to hand when simply fire on them from afar? Another marine book with some flair really, models I'm hoping will look interesting, I've got some ideas for specialized Berzerkers...
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Codex: there is much less focus on Inquisition aspects...
Great. Next they'll be telling us that the Sisters of Battle aren't a Chamber Militant...
29408
Post by: Melissia
H.B.M.C. wrote:Great. Next they'll be telling us that the Sisters of Battle aren't a Chamber Militant...
So basically no real change?
17155
Post by: bhsman
H.B.M.C. wrote:AgeOfEgos wrote:Codex: there is much less focus on Inquisition aspects...
Great. Next they'll be telling us that the Sisters of Battle aren't a Chamber Militant...
To be fair, he reiterated that they'll be in there, but without trying to upstage the Grey Knights. I know you won't like that answer, but it's probably not as bad as we suspect.
Personally, I'm hoping that, in an attempt to keep costs at a reasonable level, they'll remove the +2 Strength bit to NFW and make them regular power weapons with the ability to wound Daemons and Psykers on a 2+. Gives them a fluffy edge against daemons but also some against stuff like Mephiston, Tyranid MCs, and so on. Even the mention of Force Weapons for the Terminators sounds like a good counter to ubiquitous kitted-out Thunderwolf Cav/Nob Biker deathstars, and so on. But most of all I want to burn like $200 on models that look like this:
22637
Post by: DEATH89
If the news about the release comes true I know where my Christmas money is going  Don't really care about the rules so much, awesome though they sound, but if they released plastic GKs & GKTs I would buy loads more without even a new book. Heres hoping they're good but not stilton good 
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Melissia wrote:My guess is anti-tank psychic powers.
I think it makes the most sense, but from the GW corporate perspective... how can you make a model for that? While the basic units my have the anti-tank power to some degree, my guess would be that GW would want some more powerful version with that "power." A purely hypothetical Grey Knight Librarian would be such a unit.
I really think Grey Knight Terminators should be a troop choice. The power armored guys are suppose to be the neophytes and most recently initiated, while the "average" Grey Knight wears terminator armor. The fact they can only take power armored GK as troops its the same as if Ultramarines could only take scouts as troops, fluffwise.
7375
Post by: BrookM
I wonder how they're going to fill up the Fast Attack slot this time round.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Maybe the Storm Raven? I just think the lamest thing is if GW just give a random unit teleport or droppods and count it as a fast attack.
Between psycher powers and teleport, GK are going to have alot intangable capabilities, that aren't physically represented by models... if they still have orbital bombardment as a FOC choice that only makes it worse. I once came to an apocalypse game with 20,000 points of GK orbital bombardment, I didn't lose a single unit, jk.
11834
Post by: Superscope
Sadly the ally rules are pretty much dead from the sounds of things (Which imo needed to go.. way too many imbalances like mistics).
Hopeful they will turn the purgation sqaud from the heavy support choice failure that it is into something more akin to a super devastor sqaud... with the option to use terminator armor
5 psycannons pewpewpew
20867
Post by: Just Dave
I think this all sounds very good to me, it sounds reasonable/believable and awesome so I won't complain!
I think the actual specialisation against Daemons is good, kind of unfair, but suitable. These abilities against psykers also screw over other armies such as Eldar, Mephiston/Blood Angels, Tyranids etc.
Wasn't there RUMOURS of Jump Pack Grey Knights before? Also, it was said earlier in this thread there will be weaker/fodder units which could occupy certain roles within the FOC.
As expected though, I agree with anti-tank being a problem. But lets be honest, Daemons only have on tank so it also suits the fluff, if unfair to Daemons and Nids.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Less focus on the Inquisiton = Less Interest for me.
I hope they're at least still a bit interesting and customizable.
And that there's enough of a guard presence in the Codex to be able to use some/most of my existing force...
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
As said: A good proportion of these rumours are completely off the mark, so I wouldn't recommend to discuss these too seriously.
3330
Post by: Kirasu
Yeah I see a big problem with only grey knights. GW basically has to invent 3x the units to fill the book or its going to be mighty boring.
I dont see the correlation really with Blood angels other than being space marines. BA already had tons of choices and used a lot from the normal SM book because they are generally just space marines
Honestly the inquisition is one of the coolest parts of 40k fluff.. not the grey knights
21487
Post by: ssREV
I think if they redo them, the plastic grey knights box is going to be significantly more expensive than the average troop box just 'cause.
21170
Post by: Klawz
ssREV wrote:I think if they redo them, the plastic grey knights box is going to be significantly more expensive than the average troop box just 'cause.
No. Just no.
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
ssREV wrote:I think if they redo them, the plastic grey knights box is going to be significantly more expensive than the average troop box just 'cause.
I don't think one needs to be Tiresias to make that prediction and there's a good chance that it's correct. Regular tactical marines are now $37.25 for 10 models in the US while Death Company and Sanguinary Guard are $33 for 5. I think you can expect Grey Knights to be premium priced at least as much as Blood Angels crack troops.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Kroothawk wrote:As said: A good proportion of these rumours are completely off the mark, so I wouldn't recommend to discuss these too seriously.
Unfortunately this one:
Alpharius wrote:Less focus on the Inquisiton
...has be one that good sources have stated several time and back by the game designers saying as much in conversation at Gamesday events.
Kirasu wrote:Yeah I see a big problem with only grey knights. GW basically has to invent 3x the units to fill the book or its going to be mighty boring.
The Inquisition should still be in there and the book should really be thought of as Codex: Daemonhunters + Only new Grey Knights units. While I'd guess they might remove redundant units, the point is more to build off the current book so as to shift emphasis away from the Inquisition and on to the Grey Knights. So you might not be able to build pure Inquisition forces, units like the 3 for 1 FOC (lesser) Inquisitor unit might be gone, and the Inquisitorial retinue reduced to something simpler like the IG command squad, while simulatneously adding some new Grey Knight units. It just mean they won't need to invent as many new units, maybe just double the number they currently have.
Right now Grey Knights, have their Grand Master, Terminators, Power Armor Squad, Land Raiders (x2), Dreadnoughts... if they had double that I think it would be enough. I think there should be another HQ choice like a librarian or chaplain and an actual body guard unit. For elites, I think its fine for them to rely on Inquisitorial units for that, though I wouldn't fault GW for something interesting, like a Librarian or Venerable dreadnought of sufficient GK flavor. Troops I think would suffice with reorganizing and sufficient upgrade options. Fast Attack... if GW focuses their creative energy anywhere this is it, the Storm Raven as a fast attack choice might be a simple way of filling this a bit, even still much love needed. The Heavy Support of the Grey Knights really should see something better than power armor GK with special weapons and the other standard unit options.
29408
Post by: Melissia
Kirasu wrote:Yeah I see a big problem with only grey knights. GW basically has to invent 3x the units to fill the book or its going to be mighty boring.
...so how is that a problem exactly? GW has made a business out of making gak up.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Which is an odd way to go, given that we've mostly been told that the GK are very specialist troops mostly for a specific enemy.
The last book 'worked' well in that regard.
"Forcing" it to be a GK army feels... odd.
21170
Post by: Klawz
Personal predictions:
HQ:
Inquisitor + Retinue
Grey Knights Grand Master
Grey knights Librarian
Elites:
GK Terminators
GK Dred
GK venerable Dred
Troops:
Cannon Fodder (of some kind)
Grey Knights
Fast Attack:
Stormraven
GK w/ Jump Packs
Heavy Support:
GK Devastators
GK Predator
^All guesses^
25443
Post by: JSK-Fox
I hope that I can make an at least semi-decent inqusition army with them, since I'll make the groups fluff that they are sent to "learn more about what my chapter is doing", also known as trying to assassinate the chapter master. They always either manage to miss, have something get in the way, or get delayed.
17155
Post by: bhsman
Klawz wrote:Personal predictions:
HQ:
Inquisitor + Retinue
Grey Knights Grand Master
Grey knights Librarian
Elites:
GK Terminators
GK Dred
GK venerable Dred
Troops:
Cannon Fodder (of some kind)
Grey Knights
Fast Attack:
Stormraven
GK w/ Jump Packs
Heavy Support:
GK Devastators
GK Predator
^All guesses^
So just make them like regular Space Marines?   At the very least rethink the idea of a Grey Knight Librarian. If I had to guess, probably more like this: HQ: Inquisitor w/Acolyte options GK Grandmaster (3 Wounds, WS 6-7, I5) GK Brother-Captain (2 Wounds, WS 5-6, I5) GK Chaplain (2 Wounds, WS 5, I4) Elites: Imperial Assassin with all the flavors Grey Knight Terminators Maybe a non- HQ Inquisitor? Elite-ish "Cannon Fodder" Troops: PAGK Inquisitorial Stormtroopers Fast Attack: Storm Raven PAGK with a "Gate of Infinity"-esque power and access to special weapons Valkyrie for the IST? Heavy Support: Purgation Squad Land Raider Venerable Dreadnought "Inducted" Leman Russ?
21170
Post by: Klawz
bhsman wrote:Klawz wrote:Personal predictions:
HQ:
Inquisitor + Retinue
Grey Knights Grand Master
Grey knights Librarian
Elites:
GK Terminators
GK Dred
GK venerable Dred
Troops:
Cannon Fodder (of some kind)
Grey Knights
Fast Attack:
Stormraven
GK w/ Jump Packs
Heavy Support:
GK Devastators
GK Predator
^All guesses^
So just make them like regular Space Marines? At the very least rethink the idea of a Grey Knight Librarian.
If I had to guess, probably more like this:
HQ:
Inquisitor w/Acolyte options
GK Grandmaster (3 Wounds, WS 6-7, I5)
GK Brother-Captain (2 Wounds, WS 5-6, I5)
GK Chaplain (2 Wounds, WS 5, I4)
Elites:
Imperial Assassin with all the flavors
Grey Knight Terminators
Maybe a non- HQ Inquisitor?
Elite-ish "Cannon Fodder"
Troops:
PAGK
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Fast Attack:
Storm Raven
PAGK with a "Gate of Infinity"-esque power and access to special weapons
Valkyrie for the IST?
Heavy Support:
Purgation Squad
Land Raider
Venerable Dreadnought
That makes more sense. I was just guessing from what I know of GKs...
17155
Post by: bhsman
It's all good. Though I sincerely hope anything resembling Grey Knights with jump packs stays the hell away from the codex. :(
10895
Post by: Ironhide
All I want is some multi-part plastic grey knights that I can actually do easy conversions on.
26031
Post by: shealyr
Hopefully they won't get any overpowered psychic powers. Like an AP 1 lance that hits everything in a 4d6 line....
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
So now this topic thread has evolved into fabricating rules that don't exist and then hoping an army book that hasn't been released yet doesn't have them? Yeah, this topic is done till more information is available.
29408
Post by: Melissia
It's called speculation. That's what happens in a rumor thread.
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
Random speculation based on absolutely nothing is what's happening now. This thread is dead. Unsubscribe *click*.
28292
Post by: Catyrpelius
On a postitive not, alteast my Blood Angles will finally be able to get their stormravens!
17155
Post by: bhsman
BrassScorpion wrote:Random speculation based on absolutely nothing is what's happening now. This thread is dead.
No offense man but this isn't exactly going to help. Case in point: Tempus Fugitives have released a campaign guide for a post-Heresy gaming meet sometime in early September. While this would usually not be a big deal, these guys seem to include rules for stuff that appears in upcoming rulebooks, or have rules for characters named in unreleased Black Library books. And this one contains rules for the Grey Knights. Though I'm halfway hoping a lot of it won't make the final cut, if any.
16879
Post by: daedalus-templarius
bhsman wrote:BrassScorpion wrote:Random speculation based on absolutely nothing is what's happening now. This thread is dead.
No offense man but this isn't exactly going to help. Case in point: Tempus Fugitives have released a campaign guide for a post-Heresy gaming meet sometime in early September. While this would usually not be a big deal, these guys seem to include rules for stuff that appears in upcoming rulebooks, or have rules for characters named in unreleased Black Library books. And this one contains rules for the Grey Knights. Though I'm halfway hoping a lot of it won't make the final cut, if any.
Looking through some of the stuff in the TF book right now.
lol, 300pt GK squad, these guys are like the movie marines! Heck I want to try these in a regular game!
Also I like the call outs for heresy characters, Garro, Garviel (thought he was dead), Saul (also thought he was dead)!
20867
Post by: Just Dave
bhsman wrote:Klawz wrote:Personal predictions:
HQ:
Inquisitor + Retinue
Grey Knights Grand Master
Grey knights Librarian
Elites:
GK Terminators
GK Dred
GK venerable Dred
Troops:
Cannon Fodder (of some kind)
Grey Knights
Fast Attack:
Stormraven
GK w/ Jump Packs
Heavy Support:
GK Devastators
GK Predator
^All guesses^
So just make them like regular Space Marines? At the very least rethink the idea of a Grey Knight Librarian.
If I had to guess, probably more like this:
HQ:
Inquisitor w/Acolyte options
GK Grandmaster (3 Wounds, WS 6-7, I5)
GK Brother-Captain (2 Wounds, WS 5-6, I5)
GK Chaplain (2 Wounds, WS 5, I4)
Elites:
Imperial Assassin with all the flavors
Grey Knight Terminators
Maybe a non- HQ Inquisitor?
Elite-ish "Cannon Fodder"
Troops:
PAGK
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Fast Attack:
Storm Raven
PAGK with a "Gate of Infinity"-esque power and access to special weapons
Valkyrie for the IST?
Heavy Support:
Purgation Squad
Land Raider
Venerable Dreadnought
"Inducted" Leman Russ?
So one of you wants Codex: Shiney Marines and the other wants Codex: Shiney Marines and Mortals...
16879
Post by: daedalus-templarius
I'd rather have the angle they are working in the TF book.
Marinezilla.
Garro, a 10 man PAGK squad, a 5 man GKT sqad, and 2 land raiders to put them in rolls up about 1750pts, lol.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Guys, feel free to NOT quote gigantic swathes of text in order to drop a pithy one-liner at the end!
And, as we've already been told - a lot of these rumors are, more or less, confirmed false!
Speculation and wish-listing can go somewhere else to be discussed.
18913
Post by: Ennkay
I would actually be upset if they gave standard GKs artificer armor, that would just drive the price of them up more(provided they dusted down the NFW) speaking of that, ive heard things like they will remove the justicar's power weapon and give the squad rending instead of st6
4042
Post by: Da Boss
Grey Knights as a stand alone codex is really bloody stupid, I think. I've always felt Daemonhunters was one of the worst codex concepts that GW ever released. Combined Inquistion would have solved the problems, made for an interesting book, and freed a release spot from what is, to my mind, a terribly one dimensional army concept.
Meh. If they get lots of uber anti daemon powers, that's just another kick in the teeth to daemon and chaos marine players.
20867
Post by: Just Dave
Ennkay wrote:I would actually be upset if they gave standard GKs artificer armor, that would just drive the price of them up more(provided they dusted down the NFW) speaking of that, ive heard things like they will remove the justicar's power weapon and give the squad rending instead of st6
I think that rending thing was mentioned as part of a thread some guy made as a joke.
Does anyone know what the situation is with assassins? As in, do they even make an appearance?!
18080
Post by: Anpu42
The Artificer Armor does not bother me at all.
1] With all of the Anti-Terminator Builds out there, they will just die twice as fast as Non-Storm Shield Terminators.
2] It would make them unique Army.
3] My Plasma Spam list won’t notice the difference.
4] They will be Expensive [in both $$ and points] so you wont see so many.
5] It will annoy the  out of all of the Marine Haters.
6] The Whining about the Space Wolves and Blood Angels will be diminished some.
18913
Post by: Ennkay
Anpu42 wrote:The Artificer Armor does not bother me at all.
6] The Whining about the Space Wolves and Blood Angels will be diminished some.
this made me Lol
17155
Post by: bhsman
Just Dave wrote:So one of you wants Codex: Shiney Marines and the other wants Codex: Shiney Marines and Mortals...
Yep, all of the extensive details in which I think Grey Knights would be different from regular marines have been laid bare in a speculated FOC you titan of intellect you. 
Anpu42 wrote:The Artificer Armor does not bother me at all.
1] With all of the Anti-Terminator Builds out there, they will just die twice as fast as Non-Storm Shield Terminators.
2] It would make them unique Army.
3] My Plasma Spam list won’t notice the difference.
4] They will be Expensive [in both $$ and points] so you wont see so many.
5] It will annoy the out of all of the Marine Haters.
6] The Whining about the Space Wolves and Blood Angels will be diminished some.
1-True, though most people will see 2+ save on basic troops and start posting about how GK are now GW's baby and no army will ever be better than them (until Necrons roll around and the carnival starts all over again  )
2-Very, or would at least add to making them unique if you have them alongside ISTs and Imperial Assassins.
3-True, though it depends on how they handle Shrouding
4-Also depends. Compared to other lists at 2k, armies like Deathwing or Golden Shower/Sanguinary Guard lists are relatively cheap by comparison.
5-All the more reason to do it 
6-We can only hope.
29408
Post by: Melissia
Personally I'm glad they're minimizing (if not actually eliminating) Inquisitorial presence...
Brings hope they'll do the same thing to Sisters when our turn comes. Besides, I like Grey Knights for Grey Knights, not for inquisitors.
26531
Post by: VikingScott
But it is not called Codex: Grey Knights though, It's called Codex: Daemonhunters.
Ordo Malleus hunt down daemons.
1963
Post by: Aduro
Just wait, they'll take most of the Inq out of this book, and put it all into the Witchhunters book.
214
Post by: ThirdUltra
Melissia wrote:Personally I'm glad they're minimizing (if not actually eliminating) Inquisitorial presence...
Brings hope they'll do the same thing to Sisters when our turn comes. Besides, I like Grey Knights for Grey Knights, not for inquisitors.
Agreed; however, from what Harry has mentioned on that particlualr thread, is that the Sisters were started a little while after the GK's.
However, we just do not know what time-frame that is.
He also mentioned in regards to the artificer debate, that he cannot confirm that PAGK will get the 2+ save due to aritificer armor.....rules stuff was not detailed to him.
This could mean that;
1. PAGK's in "artificer" armor have a totally different power-armor suit (like they don't already I guess) which makes it look more detailed model-wise...meaning nothing really or maybe allowing a 'relentless' ability or something.
OR
2. PAGK's may get a 5+ inv save, thus replacing their current shrouding rule due to aegis-suits in the current DH codex. At least the PAGK's would still have a 3+, but seem to survive some deadly stuff for some staying power, especially if caught in the open. Granted, due to the prolific "cover" out there due to intervening troops and terrain, this doesn't seem like a big deal, but it would be something for HtH though.
Pure speculation on my part, however, but just going off what was mentioned by Harry and what he tried to clarify by what he posted, it's not a definite that artificer armor = 2+ saves for PAGK's in their codex.....it could be different, who knows.
1709
Post by: The Power Cosmic
Melissia wrote:Personally I'm glad they're minimizing (if not actually eliminating) Inquisitorial presence...
Brings hope they'll do the same thing to Sisters when our turn comes. Besides, I like Grey Knights for Grey Knights, not for inquisitors.
I'm very upset that they're eliminating a very interesting aspect of a previously unknown part of the GW mythos in favor of making another Space Marine army.
29408
Post by: Melissia
The Power Cosmic wrote:I'm very upset that they're eliminating a very interesting aspect of a previously unknown part of the GW mythos in favor of making another Space Marine army.
Previously unknown? Hardly. But Inquisitors and the Inquisition in general aren't that appropriate for 40k tabletop.
Also, we've consistently heard rumors that the Inquisition will get its own book, whether a codex or a form of supplement is not certain.
21664
Post by: poipo32
bhsman wrote:It's all good. Though I sincerely hope anything resembling Grey Knights with jump packs stays the hell away from the codex. :(
QFT
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Truthfully the interesting part of a Grey Knight Codex will be what they charge for the boxes. Will we soon have Gold Knights, right 5 of them costing as much if not more than a 10-man Tac Squad. How 'bout a +US$15 increase for GKT's? I can see it. Alpharius wrote:I hope they're at least still a bit interesting and customizable.
Of course they will. You'll be able to choose from a wide selection of pistols, rifles, HTH weapons and maybe even a few different armour types. Just like every IC since the Dark Angels Codex. aka_mythos wrote:Alpharius wrote:Less focus on the Inquisiton
...has be one that good sources have stated several time and back by the game designers saying as much in conversation at Gamesday events.
And? So? But? Therefore? Just because it's been stated several times doesn't make it good.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Ennkay wrote:I would actually be upset if they gave standard GKs artificer armor, that would just drive the price of them up more(provided they dusted down the NFW) speaking of that, ive heard things like they will remove the justicar's power weapon and give the squad rending instead of st6
The thing you have to keep in mind is that abstractly they should have their costs brought down, but if GW decides the overall price is fine they might make it artificer armor just to maintain the point cost at where it is.
29408
Post by: Melissia
H.B.M.C. wrote:Just because it's been stated several times doesn't make it good.
And just because the moon is big doesn't mean it's also heavy, so let's go push it back into the earth because it'd make a great beach ball.
If the "less focus on the Inquisition" rumor is untrustworthy, then every rumor is even more untrustworthy. So anything you have to say in this thread? Toss it out, it's pointless. Hell, let's just rename this entire forum as just "news", removing the "rumors" part entirely.
No rumor has been as consistent, from as high and low a source, as the "two codices, separate, focusing on the Grey Knights and Sisters" rumor, first stated by Jervis Johnson over two years ago and consistently confirmed since then.
13705
Post by: the_ferrett
GKs make me hurt >.> My HQ slots become useless against them - Nightfire hurts the SAG and this talk of anti psycker makes warpheads.... Ouch!
1709
Post by: The Power Cosmic
Melissia wrote:The Power Cosmic wrote:I'm very upset that they're eliminating a very interesting aspect of a previously unknown part of the GW mythos in favor of making another Space Marine army.
Previously unknown? Hardly. But Inquisitors and the Inquisition in general aren't that appropriate for 40k tabletop. Also, we've consistently heard rumors that the Inquisition will get its own book, whether a codex or a form of supplement is not certain.
How much of the Inquisition did we have before the Deamonhunters codex? Not counting 2nd edition's Codex Imperialis, we had an entry in the 3rd edition rulebook and an update in WD. Then the Inquisitor game comes along and GW creates a rich background for a bunch of different Inquisitorial factions. We get them rolled into 40k, and they're a unique thing (having allies, lots of grimdark gribblies), and now they're being eliminated. Just having Grey Knights is boring. It's another Marine army, la- de-frickin'-da. I don't care about you Sisters of Battle and their involvement with the Inquisition, but I think the Inquisition can fit there too. And yes, GW has said there will be an Inquisition codex, but they've said lots of things. I wonder how close those Chaos Powers books are doing...
29408
Post by: Melissia
Actually, the only reason they even made the book Daemonhunters rather than Grey Knights in the first place was to advertise for their Inquisitor specialist game (which failed).
32364
Post by: krusnikk
i know its a step towards standard marines but, gk bikers
bike mounet storm bolter as opposed to tl bolters and NFWs (or optional NFWs for justicars
this would be good in my opinion as it would be easier to fluff than jetpacks light transport for the under teched Gks
also if we go on fluff we know that GK chaplains exist from the GK novel
librarian i wouldnt like as all GKs are meant to be psychic
ooooh and the bikers NFWs should be lances like my Brothe captains
1709
Post by: The Power Cosmic
Melissia wrote:Actually, the only reason they even made the book Daemonhunters rather than Grey Knights in the first place was to advertise for their Inquisitor specialist game (which failed).
Who cares what the motivation was? It was cool and unique and it worked. But, as has clearly been the way of 40k, GW is taking all the "minor" armies and stuff out of the game, leaving us with a poorer product as a result. Kroot, Lost and the Damned, Doctrines, Customizable chapters, Craftworlds, Clans, and now Inquisitors.
And Inquisitor didn't "fail" because it was about the Inquisition, it was the scale change.
17155
Post by: bhsman
krusnikk wrote:i know its a step towards standard marines but, gk bikers
bike mounet storm bolter as opposed to tl bolters and NFWs (or optional NFWs for justicars
this would be good in my opinion as it would be easier to fluff than jetpacks light transport for the under teched Gks
also if we go on fluff we know that GK chaplains exist from the GK novel
librarian i wouldnt like as all GKs are meant to be psychic
ooooh and the bikers NFWs should be lances like my Brothe captains
Why use bikes when Grey Knights have literal mastery over teleportation and Deep Striking. That's like opting for rollerskates when you have access to a BMW.
Melissia wrote:Actually, the only reason they even made the book Daemonhunters rather than Grey Knights in the first place was to advertise for their Inquisitor specialist game (which failed).
Man you are like a broken record.
29408
Post by: Melissia
Yes, much like a history book-- no matter how many times you read it, it still says the same thing (and it's usually right).
That's not to say I think Inquisition should just be removed entirely from the game, rather, I just wouldn't care if they were. The ideal situation would to have them have their own codex/supplement instead, but you know how GW is when it comes to finding solutions.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
I'm just hoping that the GKs integrate "Allied" SMs and IG into the list, similar to ISTs.
More to the point, I'm hoping that ISTs don't get the IG ST rules and costs.
29408
Post by: Melissia
So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?
32364
Post by: krusnikk
bhsman wrote:
Why use bikes when Grey Knights have literal mastery over teleportation and Deep Striking. That's like opting for rollerskates when you have access to a BMW.
in essence gks cant always teleport staight in, read the fluff , including any of the novels,
your argument fails in my eyes as thats the same as saying 'why take rhinos when there are land raiders' or 'why take jetpacks when there are thunderhawks#
its a good way for a force on the ground to scout or cover more ground grey knights often have to hunt for the infestation.
i like the idea of GKs on bikes plus they are KNIGHTS!!! Knights need thier steeds
29408
Post by: Melissia
The Power Cosmic wrote:And Inquisitor didn't "fail" because it was about the Inquisition, it was the scale change.
I never said why it failed. Only that it did.
Personally I prefer the Dark Heresy roleplaying game over Inquisitor at any rate.
1709
Post by: The Power Cosmic
Melissia wrote:The Power Cosmic wrote:And Inquisitor didn't "fail" because it was about the Inquisition, it was the scale change.
I never said why it failed. Only that it did.
Personally I prefer the Dark Heresy roleplaying game over Inquisitor at any rate.
I know, but there is no love lost between you and the Inquisition, you're just biased against them.
Inquisitor was a pretty good game. It's been so long between it and Dark Heresy that the two don't really have anything to do with each other. Inquisitor wasn't trying to be a full role-playing game. But whatever, that's not what we're talking about here.
Basically I lament the loss of the Inquisition and you don't. That makes you wrong.
32364
Post by: krusnikk
but on every army list forum i see all i see is endless 'pure GK' or GK plus an inquisitor' have only seen one inquisiton force and thatdidnt seem strong at all
plus remember no-one is ever wrong they are just nowhere near as right as you are 
1709
Post by: The Power Cosmic
krusnikk wrote:but on every army list forum i see all i see is endless 'pure GK' or GK plus an inquisitor' have only seen one inquisiton force and thatdidnt seem strong at all plus remember no-one is ever wrong they are just nowhere near as right as you are
Well, that's another issue, mainly the reliance on the internets to tell you what kind of army to play. Also, not every armylist has to be tooled up to win. If I want to play an Inquisition force with only couple Grey Knights and maybe lose 90% of my games, so what? We're not all tournament players (thank the Emperor).
17155
Post by: bhsman
Melissia wrote:Yes, much like a history book-- no matter how many times you read it, it still says the same thing (and it's usually right).
Good thing your posts are more akin to an editorial column. 
krusnikk wrote:in essence gks cant always teleport staight in, read the fluff , including any of the novels,
your argument fails in my eyes as thats the same as saying 'why take rhinos when there are land raiders' or 'why take jetpacks when there are thunderhawks#
its a good way for a force on the ground to scout or cover more ground grey knights often have to hunt for the infestation.
i like the idea of GKs on bikes plus they are KNIGHTS!!! Knights need thier steeds
Eh, I just feel like that's they're main thing when it comes to deployment, and they can do it better than anyone. When they fought on Armageddon, or when they showed up on the chapter homeworld of the Scythes of the Emperor to take then-aspirant Stern with them, they're always described as showing up (or leaving) in a storm of light. Rather than have them move across the field on bikes, they could simply give them a Gate-like power for mobility.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Melissia wrote:So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?
In short? Yes.
I think Grey Knights are as "complete" as they should be, and that more Inq stuff should be loaded into the book to make up the balance.
I don't think that expansion of the GK line is warranted when their book should be Inq (Heroes & ISTs) + GK/ DW + Inducted IG/ SMs.
Of course, this is coming from more of a 2E viewpoint...
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
I honestly think allies should be removed completely from both DH and WH codexes. It's too easy to abuse now that every other codex they can work with is far superior to them.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Oh, no doubt Allies will be removed.
But I fully expect:
Troops
Inducted Guardsmen = 50 pts
1 Sergeant + 9 Guardsmen
+ may take 1 Heavy & 1 Special
+ may take Chimera
may not be taken if Inducted Marines are taken
Inducted Marines = 190 pts
1 Sergeant + 9 Marines
+ may take 1 Heavy & 1 Special
+ may take Rhino or Razorback
may not be taken if Inducted Guardsmen are taken
Heavy
Leman Russ
may only be taken if Inducted Guardsmen are taken
Making "Inducted" units integral to the Inquisition list removes any possible abuse, and keeps their rules clean without any dependence upon other Codices.
This also usefully expands the Inquistion Codex with lots of unit entries for very little effort, merely the sort of cut-and-paste-and-tweak that GW is famous for.
Best of all, once this is done, Inquisition won't need another update for the next decade or so.
29408
Post by: Melissia
JohnHwangDD wrote:But I fully expect:
[snip]
And why do you expect it? What have you heard to support this, if anything? The only person who has been saying something like this is you... no official sources, not even "official" sources like managers and etc.
Remember, want != expect.
Making inducted units available in the codex itself takes up space that should be used by units that are actually unique to the codex instead of copy/pasted units from another codex that will eventually become outdated anyway.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
Melissia wrote:So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?
No, I'd rather GW build GKs as a full army with a book that can build full non- GK armies, too. Why does it have to be one or the other, why can't we have a book with 30+ entries that can be built in more than just one way? But then, why would I want anyone's armies to be invalidated?
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
That sounds fine and all, but guardsmen wouldn't be much in units of 10 for a single troops choice
I think that's a fine idea, but being able to take an entire infantry platoon worth of troops would be better.
They don't even need to be called guardsmen either. Or be part of a different codex! Call them "Inquisitorial Troopers" and make them part of the codex, instead of allies.
Even the Space Marines could be called something like "Inquisitorial Astartes" and have a similar posisition.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Melissia wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:But I fully expect:
[snip]
And why do you expect it?
Making inducted units available in the codex itself takes up space that should be used by units that are actually unique to the codex instead of copy/pasted units from another codex that will eventually become outdated anyway.
Because GW has already done this in the Inquisition books. Where did ISTs come from in the first place? Go check. They were a copy-paste from the IG Codex. How about Assassins? Codex: Assassins. And the Transports? Codex: SM. So copy-pasting some version of Guardsmen and Marines seems perfectly obvious, given that this book should be nothing more than HotI + Assassins + Allies warmed over again.
Why do Grey Knights need Assault Grey Knights and Grey Knight Bikers and Grey Knight Scouts? So they can finish flushing the GK Fluff down the toilet? Maybe the Grey Knight Dreadnought can be armed with a "Knight Fist". Oooh... so unique. And a total waste of time and effort. Copy-paste enough IG and SM stuff to complement the ISTs and the Codex will do just fine, because it'll have enough variety to stand for the decade it'll need for the next revision. Automatically Appended Next Post: Samus_aran115 wrote:That sounds fine and all, but guardsmen wouldn't be much in units of 10 for a single troops choice
They don't even need to be called guardsmen either. Or be part of a different codex! Call them "Inquisitorial Troopers" and make them part of the codex, instead of allies.
Even the Space Marines could be called something like "Inquisitorial Astartes" and have a similar posisition.
OK, then maybe GW takes a page from the CSM book and treats Guardsmen like Lesser Daemons - a Troops that doesn't take a FOC slot...
That is exactly what I said: "Inducted Guardsmen" are part of the Codex (just like ISTs), not Allies from C: IG.
Yes, exactly what I suggested. "Inducted Marines" are part of the Inq Codex (like ISTs), not Allies from C: SM.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Why do Grey Knights need Assault Grey Knights and Grey Knight Bikers and Grey Knight Scouts? So they can finish flushing the GK Fluff down the toilet? Maybe the Grey Knight Dreadnought can be armed with a "Knight Fist". Oooh... so unique. And a total waste of time and effort. Copy-paste enough IG and SM stuff to complement the ISTs and the Codex will do just fine, because it'll have enough variety to stand for the decade it'll need for the next revision.
I don't see how Assault Grey Knights is "flushing GK Fluff down the toilet". They were in Rogue Trader.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
@Plat: are you proposing a return the RT-era RoC: StD list and fluff in which most GKs have no psychic ability at all, and look just like regular SMs? I'm OK with that. Of course, that would bring things back full circle, to when my SMs were non-Psyker GKs... 
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
DD vs Melissia - this is an argument that, if left alone, could literally go on until one of them dies from old age. I say we sit back and watch. Anyway, I'm with DD on this one (yeah, I know - who'd thunk that?). Grey Knights are complete as is - their squads work, their fluff works, the limited unit choices makes sense, no Vanila Marine choices are shoe-horned into them to make more model, and if you want to play them as a whole army, you can (not a very good army, but then again a pure Inquisitorial army isn't very good either and I still play them). They don't need Assault Marines and Bikers and everything else DD mentioned. "Knight Fist" - classic! I also agree that adding actual Guard and Marine units as Codex entries could be something that happens... maybe not the Marines, but the Guard. But it is wishful thinking on DD's part to assume that IST's won't be turned into the craptastic Guard Stormies (assuming they're even in the Codex to begin with). bhsman wrote:Man you are like a broken record.
I prefer a CD stuck on repeat.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
I prefer thinking of her arguments like infomercials when you can't find the remote.
Also, I really really really want to see something fantastic done with Grey Knight Terminators. I'm liking this "Paladin" thing that's been rumored though...
6005
Post by: Death By Monkeys
H.B.M.C. wrote:Anyway, I'm with DD on this one (yeah, I know - who'd thunk that?).
Whoah. Is it 2012 already? Has the seventh seal been broken? The world as I know it is ending.
7297
Post by: Kung Fu Jim
I see it as:
Terminators, GK's, GK's with jump packs:
GK's with some sort of mount for fast attack:
Enforcer troops-like a private police force (stormtrooper quality:
Assassins:
Mutants, (beastmen?) Daemonhosts, Inquisitors, Preachers, ect:
Militia frateris:
And some sort of huge vehicle:
Some of this is a wish list, but it would bring back some of the popular pieces from the past. (remember they are bringing back the IA pre-heresy stuff).
686
Post by: aka_mythos
All those would kinda go against the notion of the codex being focused on Grey Knights.
Melissia wrote:Actually, the only reason they even made the book Daemonhunters rather than Grey Knights in the first place was to advertise for their Inquisitor specialist game (which failed).
The reason why it happen wasn't an attempt at a tie-in but the result of Inquisitor being internally popular at GW. GW actually had to keep the Game Designers from making it a true tie-in, by disallowing character cross overs between the two properties.
I think most people are over estimating what would be necessary for filling out the Grey Knight codex. A number of appropriate units already exist and their suitability eliminates the need for explanation... storm raven and dreadnought variants come to mind. Next you can add basic staples such alternate HQ's like Chaplain or Librarians, in some form, even if not by those names or functions. That's 4 or 5 new yet appropriate units. At the same time they don't substantially distort the character of the Grey Knights. All GK really need beyond that is at least one more fast attack choice.
4412
Post by: George Spiggott
I'll be pretty surprised if inducted troops (and Daemonhosts) make it into the Grey Knight codex. Cut and Paste IG Stormtroopers, maybe but don't expect to see them as Troops choices, they'll probably be fast attack with a mandatory transport (Chimera or Valkyrie). I expect them to loose most of their options with the exception of (Str4) Shotguns (from the WH codex). I think that a 'proper' Grey Knight fast attack choice is possible with different models (maybe, maybe not jump packs) but definitely new different models. There's got to be something in the book for old Grey Knight purists to buy. Inquisitors and their retinues are likely to be a shadow of their former selves. I draw a blank as to how they'll handle Assassins.
Variant Dreadnoughts, Characters, Land Raiders and Storm Ravens seem very likely to me.
29408
Post by: Melissia
aka_mythos wrote:All GK really need beyond that is at least one fast attack choice.
Fixed, at least in the opinion of most GK players I know.
18080
Post by: Anpu42
Currently we have without Inquisitors or other.
HQ
-HQ with Command Squad Option
-Special Character with Command Squad Option
Elites
-Terminators
Troops
-Power Armor Grey Knights
Fast Attack
-Power Armor Grey Knights with Teleport
Heavy
-“Devastator” Squad with only 2 types of Weapons available
-Dread
-Land Raiders
If they keep those what fills the gaps
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Kung Fu Jim wrote:Mutants, (beastmen?) Daemonhosts,
Militia frateris:
Mutants & Beastmen & Daemonhosts? Not likely, as GW will focus the Inq / GK book back to loyalists. It's one thing for BA to have Raging / non-Raging, but to have clearly Heretical stuff in a mostly anti-Heretical army? Can't really see it.
Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.
19377
Post by: Grundz
Ugh, I dont want power weapons, I thought the higher WS and 6str close combat weapons were reasonably powerful and unique =(
2700
Post by: dietrich
Weren't there rumors (or maybe just speculation) that GKs would get jetbikes?
10895
Post by: Ironhide
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.
Don't really belong in that book either. As the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed any men under arms. Which is why they have the Sisters.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Yeah, and technically, our government is required to get warrants before wiretapping our phones. Your point?
31545
Post by: AlexHolker
Ironhide wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.
Don't really belong in that book either. As the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed any men under arms. Which is why they have the Sisters.
The Frateris Militia aren't men at arms, they're just random citizens that decided to help out the war effort.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
AlexHolker wrote:Ironhide wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Frateris Militia belong, just not in this book. Wait for C: Sisters of Battle for the expanded forces of the Ecclesiarchy.
Don't really belong in that book either. As the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed any men under arms. Which is why they have the Sisters.
The Frateris Militia aren't men at arms, they're just random citizens that decided to help out the war effort.
Exactly. Think of the Medieval Crusades - that's basically what you have - uneducated peasantry whipped up into a religous war...
22637
Post by: DEATH89
I think if they have to make an Assault Squad for GK's they should make them teleport similar to Warp Spiders, still with SB's but A2 basic. Also with the Inducted Marines, If they do come up I think Psycannon rounds should be an option, surely if they have the resources to make fighting the demons easier why wouldn't they want to help their fellow marines. It would also help to differentiate them a little from Codex Marines Either way I can't wait
123
Post by: Alpharius
JohnHwangDD wrote:Melissia wrote:So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?
In short? Yes.
I think Grey Knights are as "complete" as they should be, and that more Inq stuff should be loaded into the book to make up the balance.
I don't think that expansion of the GK line is warranted when their book should be Inq (Heroes & ISTs) + GK/ DW + Inducted IG/ SMs.
Of course, this is coming from more of a 2E viewpoint...
OK, I'm a bit late to the party, but, yes!
As I mentioned earlier, GK's should be a 'support' element of an army, even their 'own' army.
Still, when one changes the name from Codex: Daemonhunters to Codex: Grey Knights - disappointment is approaching.
Unless, you know, you're a Schadenfreuder of the highest rank, like some appear to be...
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Nomoreso than from when C: Sisters of Battle changed to C: Witchhunters.
Let C: DH become C: Inquisition, and all will be well!
686
Post by: aka_mythos
The word is that all PA can take teleport as an upgrade...
I've modified this to represent what I was saying before: Anpu42 wrote:Currently we have without Inquisitors or other.
HQ
-Grand Master
-Special Characters
-(Chaplain, Librarian)
-(Command Squad)
Elites
-Terminators
-(Librarian Dread or Venerable Dread)
Troops
-Power Armor Grey Knights
Fast Attack
-(Storm Raven)
Heavy
-“Devastator” Squad with only 2 types of Weapons available
-Dread
-Land Raider
-Land Raider Redeemer
If they keep those what fills the gaps
If they keep Inquisitorial elements to a minimum and leave out inducted you have this:
HQ:
-Inquisitor with Retinue (can not fill mandatory HQ and is watered down)
-Special Character
Elite:
-Assassins
-Deathcult
-Daemon Host
Troop
-Stormtrooper
Fast Attack:
-Valkyrie
Between the two things its a complete army. I don't think we'd see inducted units carried over, and I don't think we'd see too much standard marine options, but I do think GW will want to invent some new units.
If they get the standard number of models with their release... that'd be 3-4 plastics and 3-4 blisters. I think after hypothetical new character models, we'd see one or two blisters left... if daemonhost are still in I could see them getting redone, maybe if a new units invented they'd be the other blister. Their could always be a 5 model metal box for something like the command squad or anything GW comes up. Plastics seem straight forward enough with, storm raven, fancy dreadnought, power armor GK, Terminator armor GK.
4412
Post by: George Spiggott
If Codex Witch hunters became Codex Inquisition I actually wouldn't mind at if all the Inquisition (Non Grey Knight) stuff was dropped from Codex Daemon hunters (Codex Grey Knights).
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Alpharius wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Melissia wrote:So you'd rather GW build Grey Knights as an incomplete army that has to rely on other armies in order to function properly?
In short? Yes.
I think Grey Knights are as "complete" as they should be, and that more Inq stuff should be loaded into the book to make up the balance.
I don't think that expansion of the GK line is warranted when their book should be Inq (Heroes & ISTs) + GK/ DW + Inducted IG/ SMs.
Of course, this is coming from more of a 2E viewpoint...
OK, I'm a bit late to the party, but, yes!
As I mentioned earlier, GK's should be a 'support' element of an army, even their 'own' army.
Still, when one changes the name from Codex: Daemonhunters to Codex: Grey Knights - disappointment is approaching.
Unless, you know, you're a Schadenfreuder of the highest rank, like some appear to be...
I think DD is actually pretty right, that GK don't need new units... I think the units they have, have all the zest of the army. Any thing thats added should only accentuate those attribute or be left out.
The idea that GK should be a support element is a skewed perspective of the scope. A GK task force that is a persons army is probably the entire presence of GK on a planet. As an "army" they would support other groups. They themselves would be an autonomous self contained force and just wouldn't need support.They are special operations team that deals in daemonic incursion, they would have their own dedicated support in addition to what happen to be present.
29408
Post by: Melissia
So you think that they shouldn't add in a fast attack troop that teleports around ala warp spiders? I think that'd be fluffy, and it'd certainly be better than the crappy fast attack non-choice they have now.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
George Spiggott wrote:If Codex Witch hunters became Codex Inquisition I actually wouldn't mind at if all the Inquisition (Non Grey Knight) stuff was dropped from Codex Daemon hunters (Codex Grey Knights).
Huh? What you say makes no sense at all. Sisters of Battle had 2E and 3E standalone Codices and represent the Imperial forces of the Ecclesiarchy. Grey Knights were always part of the Heroes of the Imperium, along with Inquisitors and Assassins, thus "Inquisition". Flipping things around so that the Sisters get all of the Inquisitors and Assassins, which they don't heed, while keeping the Grey Knights as "pure" dilutes the Sisters to the point of pointlessness, while the Grey Knights lose the whole point of being a pure Inquisitional Chamber Militant. Competing Sisters against ISTs for Troops can only end in disaster, as they're too similar. OTOH, having AAGKs & GKTs supported by ISTs and IG/ SMs per RT-era RoC:StD Fluff would make a solid army, similar in concept to Ogre Kingoms - huge uber-guys and a swarm of little dudes.
17155
Post by: bhsman
Melissia wrote:So you think that they shouldn't add in a fast attack troop that teleports around ala warp spiders? I think that'd be fluffy, and it'd certainly be better than the crappy fast attack non-choice they have now.
Back when Bolter and Chainsword were working on a Fandex that was one idea I came up with, but now I worry that it would be stepping on Warp Spider's toes; something like a Gate-like ability (maybe with an 18" range + able to assault so it's not a direct copy of C: SM's) as an option would be nice. Actually, I think the best option for a Fast Attack slot would be some sort of hybrid between a Purgation squad and Teleportation squad: Teleport around while toting 4 Psycannons and get the drop on someone... 
4412
Post by: George Spiggott
I'm resigned to a sparse Inquisition bag in the Daemon hunters book (i.e. a book where fielding a Grey Knight free army will be impossible). I'm not happy about this but I've accepted that this could be the reality.
Given this assumed reality (it's all speculation right now) I would prefer what little Inquisition stuff is in the Grey Knight book to be removed and put into an Inquisition book that covered everything else.
The most logical way to do this would be to have no 'Troops' choices in the book except those tied to a particular character type. e.g. Inquisitor Lord makes Storm Troopers a 'Troops' choice.
123
Post by: Alpharius
JohnHwangDD wrote:Nomoreso than from when C: Sisters of Battle changed to C: Witchhunters.
Let C: DH become C: Inquisition, and all will be well!
Agreed!
Then I can finally get a 'proper' and legal Ordo Xenos force on the table!
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Done properly (AAGKs can be armed with uber-Bolters), Ordo Xenos Deathwatch Marines shouldn't be a problem at all.
Me, I'm just wanting my (painted!) Inquisition Stormies to play as such.
10895
Post by: Ironhide
Well if they are going to get a stormraven, you don't need a fast attack slot. Or just give GKs the ability to assault out of a drop pod or rhino/chimera/RB.
18913
Post by: Ennkay
I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.
25746
Post by: wizard12
Ennkay wrote:I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.
As awesome that would be, I seriously doubt it. Both because Ben Counter's writing (as much as I hate to admit) is generally treated as rubish when it comes to fluff (I get this opinion off B&C) and also, if they do go down that route, you have the problem of the whole 'your too tainted to work with the GK's thing' that happened. Possibly he could come back as a form of inquisitorial agent who make some inquisitorial units turn into troops but making it immpossible to field GK's in the process.
As a quick addition to the fast attack debate, when I imagine Grey Knights, I see fast moving, harding hitting shock troops trained to fight upon fields tainted with the warping effects of chaos. Rules wise, difficult ground. May I bring to note, the only units in a GK army at the moment that take dangerous terrain tests when going over difficult terrain are the vehicles, which, by fluff, are rarely used. Bikes and mounted units would also use up precious deployment time. I'm thinking a GK unit who can teleport (via slightly changed warp gate power) and who could assault the turn they arrive, sort of a teleporting vanguard veterans.
dietrich wrote:Weren't there rumors (or maybe just speculation) that GKs would get jetbikes?
That quote makes my DA's cry 
17155
Post by: bhsman
Stickmonkey has stated that the GK Jetbike concept art only got as far as that.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
bhsman wrote:Stickmonkey has stated that the GK Jetbike concept art only got as far as that.
Pity. It's one of the few places where Jetbike Marines would make sense (them and Custodes).
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Well that is a shame. I've been a strong proponent of GK jetbikes. Who knows, maybe it just means its a 2nd wave unit... I know false hope.
8944
Post by: Jackmojo
I'm neutral on Grey Knight jetbikes from a game/fluff perspective but I would have loved to see a plastic imperial Jetbike along the lines of the Master of the Ravenwing's ride.
Jack
20867
Post by: Just Dave
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Blood Angels have Stormravens as Heavy Support? I don't see why it would be any different for Grey Knights.
And personally I really hate the idea of GK devastators, it doesn't really suit the GK fluff IMHO.
24530
Post by: Prophecy07
Yeah, if you read the (excellent) Grey Knight books, they kind of use Terminators for the fire support role that other chapters use Devs for. They use them as a hammer (in a certain marine's case, quite literally) as well. Also, every squad has a psycannoneer in it to provide some heavy fire.
As far as GK fluff goes, I would really like to see holocaust become the usable-in-CC, very short range total-destruction of a spell that it is in the books. While it leaves the guy who uses it drained and in some cases almost dead (multiple ways to represent that), it should be a combat finisher.
Maybe only usable in CC, allows a sort of sweeping advance type test to destroy the unit, but has a chance to wound all the GKs too? that's not balanced, but something like that would be nice to see.
17155
Post by: bhsman
Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Blood Angels have Stormravens as Heavy Support? I don't see why it would be any different for Grey Knights.
Blood Angels also have regular Dreadnoughts as a Heavy Support choice, whereas just about everyone else has them at Elite, so who knows?
And personally I really hate the idea of GK devastators, it doesn't really suit the GK fluff IMHO.
You mean the fluff where they have Purgation squads? 
20867
Post by: Just Dave
I actually meant that there're generally very few Purgation squads and most Grey Knights fight within the stand unit organisation but meh.
29408
Post by: Melissia
bhsman wrote:Blood Angels also have regular Dreadnoughts as a Heavy Support choice, whereas just about everyone else has them at Elite, so who knows?
Err, what? C: SM can have dreads as heavy support.
19636
Post by: Alkasyn
Ennkay wrote:I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.
Agreed, but what's the point cost and stats ?:>
wizard12 wrote:
As awesome that would be, I seriously doubt it. Both because Ben Counter's writing (as much as I hate to admit) is generally treated as rubish when it comes to fluff (I get this opinion off B&C) and also, if they do go down that route, you have the problem of the whole 'your too tainted to work with the GK's thing' that happened. Possibly he could come back as a form of inquisitorial agent who make some inquisitorial units turn into troops but making it immpossible to field GK's in the process.
As a quick addition to the fast attack debate, when I imagine Grey Knights, I see fast moving, harding hitting shock troops trained to fight upon fields tainted with the warping effects of chaos. Rules wise, difficult ground. May I bring to note, the only units in a GK army at the moment that take dangerous terrain tests when going over difficult terrain are the vehicles, which, by fluff, are rarely used. Bikes and mounted units would also use up precious deployment time. I'm thinking a GK unit who can teleport (via slightly changed warp gate power) and who could assault the turn they arrive, sort of a teleporting vanguard veterans.
Or just make the books happen after the codex, fluff wise, similarly to what they did to Uriel Ventris and Codex: Space Marines (Captain Idaeus is the cap of the 4th company there)
32347
Post by: Iron Angel
Melissia wrote:bhsman wrote:Blood Angels also have regular Dreadnoughts as a Heavy Support choice, whereas just about everyone else has them at Elite, so who knows?
Err, what? C: SM can have dreads as heavy support.
Yes sure but i guess he meant by default in elite. They need the HQ to have the HS Dread.
And Codex DA, Codex CSM dont even have that option.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Just Dave wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Blood Angels have Stormravens as Heavy Support? I don't see why it would be any different for Grey Knights.
And personally I really hate the idea of GK devastators, it doesn't really suit the GK fluff IMHO.
There are a number of examples of how different chapters utilize units differently and that altering their presence in the FOC. How the GK, fluffwise, use them and the difference in tactical emphasis could alter where it appears. For me, the stormraven being a heavy support choice puts it in a situation where it is competing against one unit its suppose transport, I realize BA can take those other Dreads but how about basic dreads with Storm Raven transport. If GK get the stormraven we would either have to assume GK will get new dreads or the Stormraven is moved from its HS FOC, or both, or GK codex will have the conflict of FOC slot as a greater flaw. Then there is the basic one, GK lack fast attack choices, they have to have something and this could generally work and if its too much GW could always put stipulations or restrictions on its use.
GK devastators... the purgation teams are sensible, its not like they're burdened with real heavy weapons. Its just a simple and reasonable way of having more options for the army.
29408
Post by: Melissia
Alkasyn: Indeed, Sisters haven't had a single special character who wasn't dead if memory serves.
10895
Post by: Ironhide
If GK need anti-tank, then they should just get a couple psychic powers made for that purpose. The old psychic power Machine Curse springs to mind.
29408
Post by: Melissia
As would a psychic lance attack, or a psychic melta attack.
Actually, there IS a psychic melta attack in Dark Heresy, which Imperial Psykers who specialize in Pyromancy are capable of.
5793
Post by: drunkorc
Grrr... well i got a Sisters (Witch hunters) army, 6000Pts. i hope i dont have to sell em' off. i dont want em' just sitting around.
Any hope they will be making it back?
25746
Post by: wizard12
Alkasyn wrote:Ennkay wrote:I'm calling it now that they are including Justicar Alaric as a special character.
Agreed, but what's the point cost and stats ?:>
wizard12 wrote:Stuff
Or just make the books happen after the codex, fluff wise, similarly to what they did to Uriel Ventris and Codex: Space Marines (Captain Idaeus is the cap of the 4th company there)
True, but there is nothing special about Justicar Alaric before the book. He's just a normal Justicar. Even after the book, it's hard to see what they would do with him if they kept him in the Grey Knights section.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
drunkorc wrote:Grrr... well i got a Sisters (Witch hunters) army, 6000Pts. i hope i dont have to sell em' off. i dont want em' just sitting around.
Any hope they will be making it back?
The work started a bit after Grey Knights, and Grey Knights will be released January or March, so keep up your hopes
32347
Post by: Iron Angel
drunkorc wrote:Grrr... well i got a Sisters (Witch hunters) army, 6000Pts. i hope i dont have to sell em' off. i dont want em' just sitting around.
Any hope they will be making it back?
Why do they sit around?
Last time i checked SoB have been a strong army with nice miniatures.
Just a little on the more expensive side to start... but if you have 6000 points already.
24860
Post by: Whatever1
JohnHwangDD wrote:If we're going to get Grey Knights, and they're going to release the StormRaven, which should be a big seller, why isn't this a December release to catch the Holiday gift money?
Probably because DE are slated for November,and there would be too quick of a turnaround,both from a manufacturing and marketing standpoint.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Let's all try and stay On Topic here.
This is the Grey Knights/Daemonhunters thread.
NOT the Sisters of Battle/Witchhunters Thread.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
They didn't include the characters from the Blood Angel books, so why would they include the ones from the GK books?
17155
Post by: bhsman
Has there ever been an instance where a character from a book series was added? There's Gaunt, but he's since been removed.
31545
Post by: AlexHolker
bhsman wrote:Has there ever been an instance where a character from a book series was added? There's Gaunt, but he's since been removed.
The Hates Orks guy from the Blood Angels codex was apparently added from a single White Dwarf battle report. Adding characters from novels would be a step up from that.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
bhsman wrote:Has there ever been an instance where a character from a book series was added? There's Gaunt, but he's since been removed.
Colonel Schaeffer maybe, but I don't recall which came first.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
AlexHolker wrote:The Hates Orks guy from the Blood Angels codex was apparently added from a single White Dwarf battle report. Adding characters from novels would be a step up from that.
Yes, from White Dwarf 160-something, and the second (I believe) 40K 2nd Ed Battle Report. Hardly a similar situation Automatically Appended Next Post: Brother SRM wrote:Colonel Schaeffer maybe, but I don't recall which came first.
The 2nd Ed Guard Codex came first, unless Schaeffer was in the early RT fluff.
17155
Post by: bhsman
AlexHolker wrote:bhsman wrote:Has there ever been an instance where a character from a book series was added? There's Gaunt, but he's since been removed.
The Hates Orks guy from the Blood Angels codex was apparently added from a single White Dwarf battle report. Adding characters from novels would be a step up from that.
Tycho was never the main character in a series of books before being introduced, though.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Sure about that?
And what series of books?
17072
Post by: crazypsyko666
Samus_aran115 wrote:Doesn't artsy give some invul?
Because unless I've made some terrible mistake, Terminators can fire heavy weapons and move.
EDIT: Just checked. in the DH codex, at least, they can do that. Meaning that they are the best unit to give a psycannon to.
17155
Post by: bhsman
And what exactly is that supposed to prove? Tycho wasn't even the main character in the Blood Angel books. In any case, it looks like it's pretty unlikely for a character from a book without any established fluff to make it into a codex.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Could've sworn your post said "Tycho was the main character..." rather than "wasn't".
Must've misread it.
26
Post by: carmachu
Samus_aran115 wrote:Wow. What's the point of even using termies if they all have artsy armour?
More importantly, why would anyone pay for termies if they can get cheaper 2+ saves?
Because a) termis come with a 5+invulnerable, and further, everyone already owns terminators, so in order to sell kits, the regular guys need something cool.
17155
Post by: bhsman
No worries.
On another note, Fritz has been hinting as to getting some information about an upcoming Grey Knights codex himself, going further than Stickmonkey's info of S6 power weapons and claiming that they'll have Rending on top of this, supposedly to deal with vehicles. I wonder if that is too similar to that entirely made-up batch of rumors from a few months back.
He also backs up the idea of a Psyker Dread, and that the army will have quite a punch.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Brother SRM wrote:bhsman wrote:Has there ever been an instance where a character from a book series was added? There's Gaunt, but he's since been removed.
Colonel Schaeffer maybe, but I don't recall which came first.
GW has since instructed its Game Designers not to mix and commingle intellectual properties. At one point their had been the idea to have character from Inquisitor in the Inquisition codices and the people on top shot it down. That's when they made an active decision to never (in the mean time) go down that path. My guess is there is probably legal paranoia, GW thinking novel authors could complicate things if they didn't like how their character was used on the tabletop rules.
21966
Post by: col. krazy kenny
All this talk makes me wonder when are we going to see plastic storm troopers?
123
Post by: Alpharius
Well, with the release of the GK Codex would make sense, wouldn't it?
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Between storm troopers and stormravens... just makes GK seem like they're getting everyone's left overs.
123
Post by: Alpharius
aka_mythos wrote:Between storm troopers and stormravens... just makes GK seem like they're getting everyone's left overs.
Good point - though I'm sure many will rejoice!
Especially when Stormravens are opened up to all soon thereafter!
(Or, at the latest, 40K 6th!)
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I think GW could always use them to inflate the number of releases rather than counting them as the actual release... if that makes sense.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Alpharius wrote:aka_mythos wrote:Between storm troopers and stormravens... just makes GK seem like they're getting everyone's left overs.
Good point - though I'm sure many will rejoice!
Especially when Stormravens are opened up to all soon thereafter!
(Or, at the latest, 40K 6th!)
Or they'll publish rules for them in White Dwarf like with the new Eldar tanks from a few months ago.
17155
Post by: bhsman
From what Stickmonkey described, there are 4 'first wave' kits: the "PA"GK and TDAGK plastic kits (10 and 5 models, respectively), the Stormraven, and a walker (at this point a Librarian Dread seems highly likely). Stormtroopers in plastic would probably be a second wave release since so many other armies use them.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Stormtroopers were supposed to be out with the friggin' Leman Russes. What the hell is taking so long?
7375
Post by: BrookM
The right moment is not upon us yet.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Yeah, because Stormtroopers still completely suck ruleswise.
123
Post by: Alpharius
It might be a while then!
Unless, of course, they are 'fixed' via new rules in the upcoming Codex: GK?
In which case, the right time will be upon us!
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Alpharius wrote:It might be a while then!
Unless, of course, they are 'fixed' via new rules in the upcoming Codex: GK?
In which case, the right time will be upon us!
Hopefully. Then we'll have to wait another couple years for Guard to get them on par...
123
Post by: Alpharius
Samus_aran115 wrote:Alpharius wrote:It might be a while then!
Unless, of course, they are 'fixed' via new rules in the upcoming Codex: GK?
In which case, the right time will be upon us!
Hopefully. Then we'll have to wait another couple years for Guard to get them on par...
IF that is what's really going on... it will be more than a few years, unfortunately!
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
Alpharius wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:Alpharius wrote:It might be a while then!
Unless, of course, they are 'fixed' via new rules in the upcoming Codex: GK?
In which case, the right time will be upon us!
Hopefully. Then we'll have to wait another couple years for Guard to get them on par...
IF that is what's really going on... it will be more than a few years, unfortunately!
Honestly, the kasrkrins are good models. It makes me want to use storm troopers!
1478
Post by: warboss
Alpharius wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:Alpharius wrote:It might be a while then!
Unless, of course, they are 'fixed' via new rules in the upcoming Codex: GK?
In which case, the right time will be upon us!
Hopefully. Then we'll have to wait another couple years for Guard to get them on par...
IF that is what's really going on... it will be more than a few years, unfortunately!
their rules are fine, varied, and quite fun. the only problem they have is their point cost. that one number can easily be errata'd. of course, i highly doubt that'll happen but it's always a possibility.
27872
Post by: Samus_aran115
15 points? Iirc. Way too much.
I guess you really pay for that AP 3...?
123
Post by: Alpharius
Samus_aran115 wrote:15 points? Iirc. Way too much.
I guess you really pay for that AP 3...?
Actually, aren't they more than that, which also means, more than a marine?
Wasn't it... 17?
Hence all the yelling and such?
Maybe that will be the 'fix' in C: GK.
1478
Post by: warboss
Alpharius wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:15 points? Iirc. Way too much.
Wasn't it... 17?
Hence all the yelling and such?
take the average and you'll be correct.
1726
Post by: Lord_Astaroth
warboss wrote:Alpharius wrote:Samus_aran115 wrote:15 points? Iirc. Way too much.
Wasn't it... 17?
Hence all the yelling and such?
take the average and you'll be correct.
Exactly. They are 16 points. My group is using a house rule that chances the Hot Shot lasguns from rapid fire range 18" to assault 2 range 18 and it keeps the STR 3 AP3 of the gun. It seems to help them alot and makes them more worthwhile. I encourage everybody to try this as a house rule as it is obvious that in EVERY way with the exception of wounds and BS a Stormtrooper is by far inferior.
32511
Post by: Dragonsoule
Death By Monkeys wrote:New fodder units? Large pie plate? Count me curious.
wondering what type of points use there will be with the fodder???
686
Post by: aka_mythos
Fodder unit just means they'd be cheaper than GK basic troop choice, which doesn't take much.
Lord_Astaroth wrote:
Exactly. They are 16 points. My group is using a house rule that chances the Hot Shot lasguns from rapid fire range 18" to assault 2 range 18 and it keeps the STR 3 AP3 of the gun. It seems to help them alot and makes them more worthwhile. I encourage everybody to try this as a house rule as it is obvious that in EVERY way with the exception of wounds and BS a Stormtrooper is by far inferior.
I doubt they will alter what their weapons do in the new codex. If they change ST up it will be by modifying their special rules not their weapon. This isn't really the place but the simple fact that they have a "weakness" doesn't disqualify the other capabilities they have to justify them being cheaper. IF the ST were as you describe it'd only be fair to be that price without special missions; with the way GW has priced them its as if they forgot they already built in disadvantages. So if GW changes any aspect of their special rules that can be used as reasonable justification for why point values would vary.
|
|
