Do us all proud fellas!

Think you guys are heading out soon - the tourney is this weekend right?

I second this!

good luck!

Post results!

Indeed.

We expect lots of pictures.


..not too much luck of course ..

Good luck guys... make us proud.

Otherwise you will be answering to me : )

Yeah, Good Luck.

You're going to need it.

Yeah good luck guys! I hope no wannabees ruin this thread with their whines about your awesome lists.

Good luck indeed! At least we know Ben's been staying in practice.

http://www.wargamescon.com/2010/08/grand-tournament-and-rogue-trader-final.html

At this point - the lists are all set and the boy's should be off....nothing to do but cheer them on!

So....

AMERICA! F'yeah!

What you going to do when we come for you now,
its the dream that we all share; its the hope for tomorrow

I have a mole on the scene I hope he comes through for some coverage on my blog....

Either way good luck! I hope they show those Euros that Lash Lists are so 4th edition.

Good luck to all teams (but especially the US!).

tastytaste wrote:

Either way good luck! I hope they show those Euros that Lash Lists are so 4th edition.

Wait from the lists I saw for USA, they have a lash list of their own. Oh Tastytaste so ill informed.

anyways here is my usual mantra for the US team: May you roll average in your games and I will sacrifice a chicken for you (its going in my tummy tonight).

I will also be watching beerfest in tribute to the US team.

America, feth YEAH!!


Go get em boyz, like WWII all over again!

But seriously, good luck to all the teams....Just not when you are playing the good old red, white and blue!

Any news on the ESC event? I would think the US guys could do well in this, as their lists tend more towards all-comers style lists than some ETC countries.

Reecius wrote:Go get em boyz, like WWII all over again!

... right

I think we can leave that one there

Best of luck to everyone playing, though obviously it would be nice if some English chaps filled the podium.

Hello from the Muenster hotel room, and thank you for the well wishes! The team is assembled and ready to go, tomorrow will be a fun day!

Hi

Best of luck from your neighbours to the north!

Cheers,
Nate

The US drop pod has landed! Much mayhem will ensue with lots of carnage!

Keep us updated!

@SilverMK2
Hey no worries brotha, you can thank us for saving everyone's butts in the big one later!

“Bring the rain” boys

On my signal...Unleash hell....

I submit this as the theme song (and accompanying) video for our brothers taking the fight to the enemy on their home courts! Go get them boys....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9r0haVPDAo

As much as I like that song, there is only one real song to properly represent the USA.....and this is it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI&feature=related

Reecius wrote:As much as I like that song, there is only one real song to properly represent the USA.....and this is it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI&feature=related

QFT...I don't really think any other song represents the true culture of America.

Wait a second...

torgoch wrote:Any news on the ESC event? I would think the US guys could do well in this, as their lists tend more towards all-comers style lists than some ETC countries.

Oh oh oh ! This is a too quick statement, I would not be so sure.


By the way, ESC results have just been added in the european tournament registration and ranking website : T3.


According to the pre-booking page, I found that only two Americans attended to ESC.
In fact 74 players were gathered in this side event, less than accomodation capacity.

Results :
German players are trusting the podium places, quite amazing...
An englishman reached 4th. Scandinavian players fare well. First french is 11th. For USA :
"Darkwynn" : 27th ... not bad for the leafblower boy.
Paul Miglino : 65th


Here is the result page, enjoy :
http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/t3_tournament_results.php?tid=5216
click on optionen/options to change language, if needed.

Good luck to the Yank ETC boys.

The hopes and prayers of a nation go with you (Not to much pressure )

please please....please WIn for us. Dont pull a Usa world cup folly. please. BTW is this gonna be anywhere are on the internetz to have us follow?

1st and 2nd place....Imperial Guard...

So that's the final results or just a side event? When is the big showdown?

Final results shouldn't be in until Sunday morning for us I believe.

Ravajaxe wrote:
According to the pre-booking page, I found that only two Americans attended to ESC.
In fact 74 players were gathered in this side event, less than accomodation capacity.

Results :
German players are trusting the podium places, quite amazing...
An englishman reached 4th. Scandinavian players fare well. First french is 11th. For USA :
"Darkwynn" : 27th ... not bad for the leafblower boy.
Paul Miglino : 65th


Here is the result page, enjoy :
http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/t3_tournament_results.php?tid=5216
click on optionen/options to change language, if needed.

Shaun Kemp played too and placed 38th, he's the anonymous Tyranid player.

Oh, and by the way, double-lash took 5th and 7th place.

27th place for the man who single handidly broke the meta with his revolutionary guard list? Shocking....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
England vs. US in round two!!

I have it for Round 2 that its US v Czech and England v Latvia.

Norn Iron will most likely be propping up the table while Ireland have beaten Hungary (yay!).

The results I have so far:

Denmark - England : 2-0 (101-59)
Italy - Latvia : 2-0 (96-64)
United States - Wales : 2-0 (92-68)
Russia - Scotland : 2-0 (89-71)
Switzerland - Ukraine : 2-0 (87-73)
Finland - Faroe Island : 2-0 (86-74)
Austria - Belarus : 1-1 (82-78)
Spain - Sweden : 1-1 (80-80)
Hungary - Ireland : 0-2 (74-86)
Belgium - Czech : 0-2 (67-93)
France - Germany : 0-2 (57-103)
Northern Ireland - Poland : 0-2 (21-139)

Pairing Round 2:

Germany - Poland
Denmark - Italy
Czech - United States
Russia - Switzerland
Finland - Ireland
Austria - Spain
Belarus - Sweden
Faroe Island - Hungary
Scotland - Ukraine
Belgium - Wales
England - Latvia
France - Northern Ireland

BTW, I'm expecting the Yanks to do what they do in the World Cup - talk a big game and then crash out in style.

My info is incorrect then. Where you getting your info?

Finland eh? Tough!
Good luck to all playing, have a good time!

There are updates here http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=75481&sid=df608b5d655cf9453b9d3ac444e5f36a.

olympia wrote:My info is incorrect then. Where you getting your info?

Your information is the fantasy event, and the other is the 40k event.

I did not know that USA was even sending a fantasy team to Europe, but I guess they can play because they tied the UK 81-79.

The USA 40K team is now 2-0 and on the top of the heap playing against one of the best countries with hard lists: Finland.

Hahaha Awesome! Go USA!

This should be televised on ESPN or something...

I second that.

With narrators and a dice cam, 40k tourneys would be just as fun to watch as WSOP. Maybe 40k radio can branch out in the near future...

Well you'll get your first taste when we live broadcast the Whiskey Challenge matches the night before the NOVA Open this coming Friday.

Curious how it's going. Is ETC two day? Good to see the US on table 1 quickly.


Down goes Finland ... US in sole possession of the lead going into 4 vs. Sweden ... good stuff.

Here are the results after the 3rd round :
(global points / goal average of individual matches)

USA 6 146
Sweden 5 98
Denmark 5 72
Switzerland 5 32
Poland 4 128
France 4 88
Italy 4 74
Ukraine 4 60
Spain 4 46
Finland 4 16
England 3 16
Germany 3 -22
Czech 3 -38
Ireland 3 -50
Hungary 2 -14
Wales 2 -14
Faroe Island 2 -28
Belarus 2 -32
Latvia 2 -48
Belgium 2 -42
Russia 2 -72
Austria 1 -106
Scotland 0 -74
Northern Ireland 0 -246

Tomorrow's mornig programme will be :

Sweden : USA
Denmark : Poland
France : Swizerland
Italy : Ukraine
Finland : spain
England : Germany
Czech : Hungary
Ireland : Wales
Belarus : Faroe Irleand
Begium : Latvia
Autria : Russia
Northern Ireland : Scotland

Sweden : USA

Last year's champs vs. the rookies

Viva La US....

Our boys are rocking....showing the others how it's done!

MVBrandt wrote:Well you'll get your first taste when we live broadcast the Whiskey Challenge matches the night before the NOVA Open this coming Friday.

Curious how it's going. Is ETC two day? Good to see the US on table 1 quickly.


Down goes Finland ... US in sole possession of the lead going into 4 vs. Sweden ... good stuff.

It's a two day event. Some of the group will be playing for four days, because they played in the other tournament

I hope my fellow yanks get the gooch!

Well done to Team USA, doing yourselves proud!
A good few of my friends are on the irish team, glad to see we're not completely disgracing ourselves but sad to see we're not kicking ass either. Hope ye all have a good night tonight and a good day tomorrow, dead sorry I'm not there with ye.

Good luck boys. Sweden has some rough lists. I think the winner of the 4th round wins it all.

Good luck boys. Sweden has some rough lists. I think the winner of the 4th round wins it all

How wrong ETC is based around 6-round swiss pairing for a reason : maximum challenge till the end. Victory = 2 pts, Draw = 1 and Loss = 0 helps too

Tomorrow team USA will meet teams with more experience than those they have met today, we'll see how goes then

But there is no doubt that for the moment they are to be congratulated for making such a strong first-day appearance and having all europe jealous and outraged at the bloody yanks...good job boys keep up the good work

Poor Northern Ireland. Did their guys sleep through their alarm or something?

Well...let's see on team USA's experience levels....

Shaun Kemp - has won overall in one or two GTs

Mike M - a bunch of GT wins

Greg Sparks - think he's won one or two - at least placed highly

Darrkwynn - 'ardboyz overall champion last year

Ben Mohlie <sp?> - just won BOLSCON

Jon Willingham - Best General at Bolscon

Those are just the battle honors I know of that these guys have off the top of MY head - and I don't know the group overly well.

But think they are ok on the experience front.....

This is so awesome after reading about people like Hulksmash taking Team USA to task. I have played all over and I can say for certain that USA has always been very strong.

@TSV

Never took the players to task friend. They all have winning records and seem to be solid players. You need to avoid personal attacks.

I did take their army lists to the woodshed and explained why I thought they weren't that great. However, I also read all the other teams army rosters and decided that they should be fine since most of the other army lists were just as bad. Never said they wouldn't do well. Just that I would have broken the system instead of playing inside of it

You have to understand that these list are not bad at all. Considering one team can choose the match-ups. These list are made to match up against certain army types to win/draw

The way these teams win is to get 5 draws and 1 win to win the contest. Anything else is just extra.

@Liquidice281

i recognize the reasoning behind the way the lists were built. I know you can pick your match-up's 50% of the time. But like I clearly stated I feel there is more than one way to go about it. And I still think the lists could be built better. Playing to tie is stupid. Building lists to tie is stupid. Build 8 lists that are balanced to win and you'll win more since the worst you do with a win army is tie. But it heavily slants the overall in your favor. They are playing it in the style of the current teams instead of thinking outside the box.

And extra matters when it comes down to ties at the top. So your second statement is completely false.

Bear in mind I'm still stoked that they are kickin some ass. USA winning it's first time out would be awesome!

I don't think their lists were designed to draw. Their lists are creative and built upon their personal experience. So far their results speak for themselves. @ HS I was not attacking you just as you were not attacking the US team. Just pointing out some of the inconstant statements you made. It sounds like you still are knocking their lists while they done quite well so far. You can't argue with success... Well you can but that is probably worthy of another thread.

I already knocked their lists BBF...I mean TSV2.7. And I'll continue to knock their lists. Not knocking the players. And as I've said I'd do it a different way. Their lists to me just don't scream competitive. But based on what else was brought I can see them doing extremely well.

Still stoked at their success. Go Team USA Show the UK that America only needs 1 team to win

Well, the favorites are Germany, Poland, and Sweden.

Man, I cannot wait for an update. The suspense is killing me.

Oh, and here's the link to the official ETC site, filtered to show 40K news updates:

http://www.rankingshq.com/etc/articles.aspx?ArticleTypeId=2&EtcId=2&GameSystemId=3

Fourth round results have been published .

Surprise, USA tied against last year's champion, and arguably one of the best european teams.
They have the path open for the podium !

Results after 4th round:
US 7 144
Poland 6 220
Sweden 6 100
Italy 6 98
Spain 6 74
Switzerland 6 26
France 5 94
Germany 5 10
Denmark 5 -20
Hungary 4 46
Ukraine 4 36
Latvia 4 -2
Finland 4 -12
Ireland 4 -42
Russia 4 -60
England 3 -16
Wales 3 -22
Faroe Island 3 -28
Belarus 3 -32
Czech 3 -98
Scotland 2 10
Belgium 2 -78
Austria 1 -118
Northern Ireland 0 -330


Pairings round V
Poland : US
Italy : Sweden
Spain : Swizerland
Germany : Hungary
Denmark : France
Latvia : Ukraine
Finland : Russia
England : Ireland
Faroe Island : Wales
Belarus : Czech
Belgium : Scotland
Northern Ireland : Austria

Austria is below the Faroe Islands.
That's what I thought. Hello Soccer team.

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:This is so awesome after reading about people like Hulksmash taking Team USA to task.

The players were never taken to task, the lists were, which is perfectly acceptable seeing as the consensus still seems to be that the lists are sub-optimal at best. What you're evidently seeing is very good players taking lists that aren't as great as they could be and winning with them, which is the true sign of a good player.

You're a really poor troll, but seeing as you have to spread it across two accounts while the mods sleep on it I guess you eventually begin to run out of material.

1/10 for the trolling attempt, +1 because hulksmash actually responded, -1 because he did so in an intelligent manner.

Overall score from the Canadian judge: 1/10.

Bunker wrote:

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:This is so awesome after reading about people like Hulksmash taking Team USA to task.

The players were never taken to task, the lists were, which is perfectly acceptable seeing as the consensus still seems to be that the lists are sub-optimal at best. What you're evidently seeing is very good players taking lists that aren't as great as they could be and winning with them, which is the true sign of a good player.

You're a really poor troll, but seeing as you have to spread it across two accounts while the mods sleep on it I guess you eventually begin to run out of material.

1/10 for the trolling attempt, +1 because hulksmash actually responded, -1 because he did so in an intelligent manner.

Overall score from the Canadian judge: 1/10.

Hey you are a cool guy!

England - Germany,

What a Game

C'mon the Germans

Arran

Hulksmash wrote:I already knocked their lists BBF...I mean TSV2.7.

I just looked at join date and looked at the posts made....it could very well be!

Fourth place for the u.s. three wins, a loss, and a draw.

Looks like they slipped a bit vs Poland in round 5.
http://yfrog.com/f/5xwneoj/

Link source:
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=75485&start=30


Round 6 match ups
http://yfrog.com/f/6eg1xnj/

Results after 5th round:
Poland 8 248
Sweden 8 150
Spain 8 134
US 7 116
Germany 7 92
Denmark 7 14
Italy 6 48
Latvia 6 28
Russia 6 -20
Switzerland 6 -34
France 5 60
Belarus 5 12
England 5 8
Scotland 4 40
Ukraine 4 6
Wales 4 -24
Faroe Island 4 -26
Hungary 4 -36
Finland 4 -52
Ireland 4 -66
Austria 3 -44
Czech 3 -142
Belgium 2 -108
Northern Ireland 0 -404

Pairings for the last round:
Poland : Sweden
Spain : United States
Denmark : Germany
Italy : Switzerland
Latvia : Russia
Belarus : France
England : Scotland
Ukraine : Wales
Faroe Island : Ireland
Finland : Hungary
Austria : Belgium
Czech : Northern Ireland

Yep, lost in round 5... 6th round needs a win for 3rd overall eh?

Jeezus...poland wiped the flooe with 'em

I have it from a witness that the Poles used the classic "sling-shot" strategy, also known as "closing the door." Few army lists nor players can deal with that when done correctly.

olympia wrote:Jeezus...poland wiped the flooe with 'em

96-66 is a loss, but not a huge loss. Poland was one of this years favorites, and they had a huge lead in points due to crushing N. Ireland.

It looks like the USA will place high, and do a lot better than everyone thought they would.

The will come back with some valuable experience so they will be able to win it next year.

England are having some interesting games, first game today against Germany then a 'border skirmish' against the Scots. Would be quite interesting as they all know each other.

Impressed that the US players have done so well, i think quite a few people wrote them off when looking at the non-specialised lists but goes to show if you're a good enough player you can win against pretty much anything

The German lists were too much min-maxed and the Nids list was just awful.
I know some players, they were my regular oppenents in RTTs.

What the hell is this sling shot?

Hhah England - Scotland !

Scots Wha Hae!

Arran (<- Scottish Island, Patriotism much?)

US could still take #2 assuming no one at the top tables ties. Hell of a good showing actually.

I'm sorry to see England not top-tier.
After all, the heart of GW lies in England.

The battle reports should be great! Anxiously awaiting the final results!

I will second what is a "slingshot" or "closing the door" tactic?

wuestenfux wrote:I'm sorry to see England not top-tier.
After all, the heart of GW lies in England.

Tell me about it. Pretty much every year it would be a spanish or italian winning the GT anyway and now we don't even have that Hopefully they'll improve on last year, don't think any of them thought they'd win, creep in to the top five maybe if they crush scotland....wish if they don't I'm never going to let them forget as our b team beat them at the home nations.

The biggest frustration about the ETC is its so WFB biased, so hard to find any 40k results but WFB are easy to find.

Seems the top three are:

1. Dänemark
2. Italien
3. Deutschland


Can't find more detail yet as to where usa ended up.

Leez wrote:Seems the top three are:

1. Dänemark
2. Italien
3. Deutschland


Can't find more detail yet as to where usa ended up.

That's WFB

Leez wrote:Seems the top three are:

1. Dänemark
2. Italien
3. Deutschland


Can't find more detail yet as to where usa ended up.

That is for fantasy.


In 40k USA tied Spain.

#1) Poland
#2) Germany
#3) USA

Hmmm, yeah. Would be hard to Italy to get so high up after the 5th round. The thread I was reading must have made a hard siwtch from 40k to fantasy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:

In 40k USA tied Spain.

#1) Poland
#2) Germany
#3) USA

Third place is pretty decent. Hope they'll be able to write battle reports, but I doubt it

Third place is very good for their first showing. They did very well, obviously having to face stiffer competition in the two final rounds.

If they tied with Spain in the last game then I would have thought the top three would be Poland, Germany and Spain, with US in fourth as Spain had 8pts before the round and US 7pts? I think they go off the overall round results (WDL) before the individual results (20-0).

Congrats team Germany. It seems that my buddies did very well.

Fallen Angel wrote:If they tied with Spain in the last game then I would have thought the top three would be Poland, Germany and Spain, with US in fourth as Spain had 8pts before the round and US 7pts? I think they go off the overall round results (WDL) before the individual results (20-0).

According to the people twit'ng from the awards spain is 3rd, germany 2nd, and poland 1st and scotland getting most sporting team.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23ETC10

U.s. 5th place i think.

Here are the actual results, wich I typed from a poor quality picture on twitter :
rank - country - points - goal average


01 Poland 10 / 280
02 Germany 9 / 162
03 Spain 9 / 132
04 Sweden 8 / 118
05 USA 8 / 116
06 Switzerland 8 / 16
07 Latvia 7 / 36
08 England 7 32
09 Russia 7 / -30
10 Denmark 7 / -56
11 France 6 / 52
12 Ukraine 6 52
13 Belarus 6 / 20
14 Italy 6 / -2
15 Austria 5 / 10
16 Faroe Islands 5 / -28
17 Finland 5 / -44
18 Hungary 5 / -44
19 Ireland 5 / -64
20 Scotland 4 / 16
21 Wales 4 / -70
22 Czech rep. 4 / -132
22 Belgium 2 / -162
23 North. Ireland 1 / -414

Polska rules !
This is quite good for team USA, congrats for those guys !
Leave your comments.

wuestenfux wrote:I'm sorry to see England not top-tier.
After all, the heart of GW lies in England.

Im sorry GW lies in the UNITED KINGDOM!, it irks me so much that Britain is called England by every one else. Even tough technically it is in England....

Arran

Dude, saying that it's a shame that England (or any of the UK teams, for that matter) doesn't make top tier because it's "the heart of GW" is like saying that England should do better in the World Cup because it's where soccer was invented. There's no logic to that argument. Frankly, I'd be interested to see how those placements correlate to things like the dollar amount spent by that nation as a whole on GW products or the number of official tournaments played in those countries. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that based on the number of tournaments held in the US that Team USA didn't fare better, even if it were the Team's first showing.

5th is still a good showing for USA's first year.

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

2) Americans can't play with LOS blocking terrain.

3) Americans don't know how to play as a "team"

4) Americans play style is not at good as the European style.

Etc.

Congrats for Team Germany for the fight to the last. The heavy loss against sweden was a bit awkward, I think there must have been a few mistakes...
But nevertheless. Great morale and finally a very good result.

And congrats to the US for a solid 5th place. Some guys here expected you worse, in fact I did not. It seems the US team is about european top level. That is nice to see and it will be an interesting tournament next year. Please come again US boys!

Maybe next year I will show up to the single player side event, but that depends on where it takes place (Germany or not...).

I'm curious, what is the "sling-shot" and "close the door" strategy?

Blackmoor wrote:5th is still a good showing for USA's first year.

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

2) Americans can't play with LOS blocking terrain.

3) Americans don't know how to play as a "team"

4) Americans play style is not at good as the European style.

Etc.

I agree a 100%

Ah but Blackmoor they might have done better with better lists

Grats to the US team for coming in in the top 20% in their first go round. Next year, We Win!

Actually - looking at this:

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=75481&sid=df608b5d655cf9453b9d3ac444e5f36a

It's a tie for fouth with Sweden right?

Great job any way - fighting huge jetlag and playing on foreign lands....

Congrats!

Blackmoor wrote:

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

Except they were, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't take first.

This is kind of wasted.

The US team did not take optimal lists, and was not selected by any kind of formalized process.

That said, they were the only guys who were willing to form a team and shell out to go over there and compete, they didn't bring terribad lists or anything, and they're mostly known players at least with some GT's under their belts.

So, seriously, don't knock 'em. Frankly, the fact that a handful of random GT-going Americans with suboptimal lists could go over there and crack top 5 their first time in the format against veteran attendees should tell you a lot more than just "Americans are as good as ..."

You don't have to praise them for going, but knocking them is a little unnecessary. It's not like "Better" alternatives were lined up to go and denied it.

Many of the American lists *were* bad, but many of the competition's list were bad as well.

Bad list for one person is NOT a bad list for someone else

All the internet list building stuff doesn't factor in personal play style, strategy, etc.

The guys went over there had good list for them and did well with them.

Nuff said

+1 at MVB

+1 Wildstyle

@Aldonis

Personal play style matters Aldonis. But I think I'm personally coming from wishing they'd have approached it differently than trying to play Europes game. That's my gripe with the lists

But again Grats to the US for a very nice showing in it's first run. Beating out all 4 UK teams....

I take a suboptimal list, and win basically every game with it. Saying a list is "suboptimal" isn't a knock ... I don't know why people have to think it is.

Veteran players make force multiplying things happen with "suboptimal" choices, as a regular rule.


If you want someone who has never played an instrument to simply make noise, give him a drum. He won't do a damned thing with a violin. But put a violin in the hands of a violinist ...

All the freak out over "suboptimal" and "bad" is annoying, b/c it's so irrelevant at a top level of competitive 40k. As I stated, their lists WERE suboptimal but were NOT bad. So what?



To any Europeans who think a bunch of random Americans showing up and beating most of you means anything (Bad or good) ... shut up.
To any Americans who are pissed it wasn't "them" or that the Americans weren't "optimized list wise" and let us down or whatever ... also shut up.

Bravo for even spending the damned money and time organizing and going over.

Bigger bravo for wearing vibrant American attire.

With as much sweet, sweet irony as I can muster after a long day ... all you negative nancies can fuggin' suck it!

Blackmoor wrote:5th is still a good showing for USA's first year.

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

2) Americans can't play with LOS blocking terrain.

3) Americans don't know how to play as a "team"

4) Americans play style is not at good as the European style. 

Etc.

^ This.
If you have played at Adepticon then you know that for most of us the first year is mostly a learning experience. That is what these guys had to do and to make the top five out of over 20 teams is very impressive.

Something interesting to me about the terrain blocking LOS comment - same terrain at both Adepticon and BoLScon this year. IG was brutal at Adepticon since terrain was played purely as TLOS and not area terrain. Different situation completely in Austin as all terrain was played as area terrain providing the much needed cover versus the IG... IG did not do nearly as well at BoLScon. To me LOS blocking terrain makes the game more even on an army wide level. So it should not be a big deal and two members of the American team did very well in Austin so it's a non issue.

As far as lists go they all started to look pretty much the same after you reviewed the lists for several countries. It's not like you cross a border and suddenly it unlocks some crazy power builds no one else was ever aware of outside of that area. With the advent of the Internet there are very few secrets except when a new codex is released and that new ness quickly wears off.

The American team should be very proud with their performance considering it was their first time there. Looks like they planned very well and were able to deliver. It wasn't until the last two rounds when they had to face-off against some of the other top teams that they slowed down a bit, which is to be expected.

I have an idea, instead of playing all area terrain, or all LoS blocking, why not stick to a mix, as the rulebook instructs us.

Hulksmash wrote:+1 at MVB

+1 Wildstyle

@Aldonis

Personal play style matters Aldonis. But I think I'm personally coming from wishing they'd have approached it differently than trying to play Europes game. That's my gripe with the lists

But again Grats to the US for a very nice showing in it's first run. Beating out all 4 UK teams....

Looks like they played "Europe's Game" (whatever that is) and did pretty well.

Having played against several of the guys that went in the past at tournaments - I'm not at all surprised that they did well....nor do I think they had "weak" lists - just list tailored to them.

So I guess Hulksmash couldnt make it huh. Or maybe the team didnt want to sit on the plane next to a guy saying "+1!!" every time someone agreed with him.

WTF is wrong with you people? Stop making it personal with human beings you don't even know across the internet. Worst memes of forums writ large.

PanamaG wrote:So I guess Hulksmash couldnt make it huh. Or maybe the team didnt want to sit on the plane next to a guy saying "+1!!" every time someone agreed with him.

+1

MVBrandt wrote:

Bigger bravo for wearing vibrant American attire.

Haven't read the thread, but clicked on the last page and saw this.

Details?

The WFB guys had american shirts/ shorts and a few guys had American Flags for bandana's and physical flags with them. Congrats to all the 40K & WFB guys who went. I'm happy there are guys out there willing to go overseas and duke it out with the other countries out there.

The WFB guys:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/wmbb/download/file.php?id=118&mode=view

I do not know the selection process for the event. However, as a fellow GT attendee I knew all the guys from both 40K and WFB and know they are all good sportsman and excellent players. I think every guy on the WFB has won a GT over the last year, or placed top 3. I'd have loved to have gone, but I think its important to sent the top guys available to these style events, as well as send a group that gels well together.

Good job guys, and congrats to those teams who put on a good showing and participated in a international event. Here's to hoping I get to show my face at one of these events in the future!

njpc wrote:
The WFB guys:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/wmbb/download/file.php?id=118&mode=view

That is awesome. Congrats to those guys.

njpc wrote:
The WFB guys:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/wmbb/download/file.php?id=118&mode=view

What country they from?

Seriously, good for the guys dropping the cash to fly over and nice job in the games.

Enough about the lists. 40k is not a game of lists. It's a game of skill and dice, random dice. Lists do not win games, people do.

I challenge MvBrandt and Hulksmash to make 8 lists from 8 different armies that are the 8 'optimal' lists. Do it or shut up. You probably can't because there are not 8 optimal lists. Anything you write up will be critized by people. Enough already.

PanamaG wrote:So I guess Hulksmash couldnt make it huh. Or maybe the team didnt want to sit on the plane next to a guy saying "+1!!" every time someone agreed with him.

Oh look, you're back.

Didn't all the WC drama last year cause you to have a hissy fit and ragequit Dakka?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarthDiggler wrote:

I challenge MvBrandt and Hulksmash to make 8 lists from 8 different armies that are the 8 'optimal' lists. Do it or shut up. You probably can't because there are not 8 optimal lists.

Wait, wut?

Do you even read what you post before you hit the Submit button?

Of course you can build 8 optimal lists for 8 different armies. It isn't really all that difficult. People have already done it on a few other sites.

DarthDiggler wrote:Enough about the lists. 40k is not a game of lists. It's a game of skill and dice, random dice. Lists do not win games, people do.

I challenge MvBrandt and Hulksmash to make 8 lists from 8 different armies that are the 8 'optimal' lists. Do it or shut up. You probably can't because there are not 8 optimal lists. Anything you write up will be critized by people. Enough already.

Why the slowed internet hate? I wrote off the optimal list thing as irrelevant, and gave the team props. You're ruining their props thread with hate. Grow up, think before you type, and practice reading comprehension. I'd rather we get along all fuzzy wuzzy on the internet than fight b/c you don't take the time to actually read what I write.

PanamaG wrote:blah blah blah

Oh! Lookee lookee! I have a 12 year old stalker who's signature is intended to ridicule me. How cute. One day you'll grow up and move on to stalk REAL people too!

Guys....I started this thread to talk about the ETC and the results of it.

Please take any personal things you have between each other some place else so the thread doesn't get locked. Don't need/want/enjoy the drama....

Congo Ratz Team America.... Fukk Yeah.

Yes I agree with Aldonis. Let's give praise to the team for their great job. They did so darn awesome! It's really cool.

Wearing the flag as attire is against the flag code...

@Panama & SV2.7

Cute

@Aldonis

What I meant by playing Europes game is that they went for the match-up style of play. Match-ups are important but if you gear your lists a certain way you negate the match-up portion of the tournament. Putting the ball squarely in your court as you've just taken their primary strategy out of the contest. Still they did a fantastic job even doing it Europes way which is awesome and deserves praise.

@Darth

Your still missing the point. It's not that I think lists are the be all end all. Read what I just wrote to Aldonis and you should get it. I personally don't understand the rage that is coming from certain people because of my viewpoint. I haven't insulted the players in the least. I've only given praise for their performance.

Add in the cash and dedication it takes for 8 guys to travel to Europe to play with little toy soldiers and I'm a little in awe. Especially since most of them didn't know super in advance to find the cheap tickets

Personally I'm looking forward to some of their battle reports and their thoughts on what to improve and their thoughts on the tourney in general.

Well done to Team USA, I think that's a really good showing for a first time out.

Agree that it will be great to read battle reports on this....will be interesting to see how this compares with our tournaments in the States.

Are their lists actually posted somewhere?

Yeah, the lists were commented by Stelek.
Goto YTTH. You'll find all lists there.
But you're going to be disappointed.

Congratulations to team USA!

They are also posted in the previous ETC thread here on Dakka. So is almost every other teams I believe.

I can't help but think of how many bad jokes come from being beaten by the Polish at wargames

Army lists of Poland, Germany, and Spain. Notes by Stelek (sorry, not removed).

POLAND

ARMY DESCRIPTION : Eldars
Krzysztof Radzki "Raca"

HQ1 : Avatar = 155 pts;
HQ2 : Farseer (55) with Runes of Warding (15), Runes of Witnessing (10), Spirit Stones (20), Singing Spear (3), Guide (20), Doom (25), Fortune (30) = 178;

Elite 1 : Harlequins(6 x 18) Kiss(5 x 4), Shadow Seer (52), Death Jester (28) = 208;
Elite 2 : Harlequins(7 x 18) Kiss(6 x 4), Shadow Seer (52), Death Jester (28) = 230;
Elite 3 : Fire Dragons (5 x 16) = 80;

Troops 1 : Guardians (10 x Cool with Bright Lance (30) = 110
Troops 2 : Guardians (10 x Cool with Bright Lance (30) = 110
Troops 3 : Jet bikes (3 x 22) with Shuriken Cannon (10) = 76
Troops 4 : Jet bikes (3 x 22) with Shuriken Cannon (10) = 76

HS1: Falcon (115) with Holo-Field (35), Spirit Stones (10), Bright Lance (30) = 190;
HS2: Wraith lord (100) with Bright Lance (30) ,Missile Launcher (25), 2*Flamer (0) = 155;
HS3: War Walker (3 x 30) with Scatter Lasers (6 x 15) = 180;
Total: 1748

Editor's Notes: Well anyway, it's a Eldratar list. Is this a list that's supposed to draw? Or beat face? Or just get beaten? Avatar is a weak spot. So is the Wraithlord and the War Walkers. When that stuff dies, and your fearless infantry get shot to pieces...or just assaulted and run off the board, I wonder if we are all playing the same game sometime.

ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Space Marines
Mariusz "Marios" Krakowczyk

HQ1 : Deamon Prince(110): Wings(20), Mark of Slaanesh(5), Lash of Submission(20) [Total 155]
HQ2 : Deamon Prince(110): Wings(20), Mark of Slaanesh(5), Lash of Submission(20) [Total 155]

Elite1 : 3 Chaos Terminators(30): Reaper Autocannon(25), 2 Combi-Plasma(2*5) in Transport 1 [Total 125]

Troop 1 : 5 Plague Marines(23): 2 Meltaguns (2*10) in Transport 2 [Total 135]
Troop 2 : 5 Plague Marines(23): 2 Meltaguns (2*10), Personal Icon (5) in Transport 3 [Total 140]
Troop 3 : 5 Chaos Space Marines(15) [Total 75]

HS1: 3 Obliterators(75) [Total 225]
HS2: 3 Obliterators(75) [Total 225]
HS3: 3 Obliterators(75) [Total 225]

Transport1 : Land Raider(220) for Elite 1 [Total 220]
Transport2 : Chaos Rhino(35) for Troop 1 [Total 35]
Transport3 : Chaos Rhino(35) for Troop 2 [Total 35]

[Total Army Cost: 1750]

Editor's Notes: Same gak, different day. So, you suicide your troops to pop open transports. Then lose. Great.

ARMY DESCRIPTION : codex Wich Hunters + IG ally,
Kamil Jasak "Miszczu"

HQ1 :Inquisitor Lord (45) Psychic Hood (20) Excrutiators (5)
Retinue: 3x Worrior with melta (60), transport1 [130]

HQ2: Canonness (45) Mantle of Ophelia (15) Book of St.Lucius(5) Cloak of St. Aspira(20) Jump pack (20) Eviscerator (25) Litanies of Faith (25) [155]

HQ3: Priest (40) Eviscerator (25) [65] - go to troops1!

Troop 1 : 10xBattle sister (110) Flamer (6) H.Flamer (12) Veteran Superrior (14) Eviscerator (25) Brazier (10) Book of St.Lucius(5) [182]

Troop 2 : 10xBattle sister (110) Flamer (6) H.Flamer (12) Veteran Superrior (14) Eviscerator (25) Brazier (10) Book of St.Lucius(5) [182]

Troop 3 : IG Comand squad (30) 4x melta (40), transport2 [70]
+ 10xguardsmen (50) lasscanon (20), transport3 [70]
+ 10xguardsmen (50) lasscanon (20), transport4 [70]

HS1: Exorcist (135) Seearchlihht(1) [136]
HS2: Exorcist (135) Seearchlihht(1) [136]
HS3: Exorcist (135) [135]

Transport1 :Land rider (250) Smoke Launchers (3) Seearchlihht(1) [254]
Transport2 :Chimera (55) H.flamer[0] [55]
Transport3 :Chimera (55) H.flamer[0] [55]
Transport4 :Chimera (55) H.flamer[0] [55]

Editor's Notes: Flying Nun. A battle sister squad equipped for CC, coming out of a Inquisitor's Land Raider? What? Oh, this is a serious competitive list. Right then. And I'm the Queen of Scots.

ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space wolves
Krzysztof "Evil" Białek

HQ2 : Wolf Lord, Runic Armour (20), Thunderwolf Mount (45), Wolftooth Neclkace (10), Wolftail Talisman (5), Saga of the Majesty (15), Power Fist (25), Storm Shield (30) - Total 250

HQ2 : Wolf Lord, Runic Armour (20), Thunderwolf Mount (45), Wolftooth Necklace (10), Wolftail Talisman (5), Saga of the Warrior Born (35), Frost Blade (25), Storm Shield (30) - Total 270

HQ3 : Rune Priest, Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning, Chooser of the Slain (10) - Total 110

HQ3 : Rune Priest, Murderous Huricane, Living Lightning, Chooser of the Slain (10), Bolter - Total 110

Elite1 : 5 Wolf Guard (18), 2 x Power Fist (20), 2 x Combi Melta (5), TDA (15), Cyclon Missile Launcher (30) - Total 185

Troop 1 : 7 Grey Hunters (15), Wolf Standard (10), Melta Gun (5) - Total 120, Transport 1
Troop 2 : 7 Grey Hunters (15), Wolf Standard (10), Melta Gun (5) - Total 120, Transport 2
Troop 3 : 5 Grey Hunters (15), Flamer (0) - Total 75

FA1: 10 Fenrisian Wolves (Cool - Total 80

HS1: 5 Long Fangs (15), 4 x Missile Launcher (10) - Total 115
HS1: 5 Long Fangs (15), 4 x Missile Launcher (10) - Total 115
HS1: 5 Long Fangs (15), 4 x Missile Launcher (10) - Total 115

Transport1 : Rhino (35), Dozer Blade (5) - Total 40, Troops 1
Transport2 : Rhino (35), Dozer Blade (5) - Total 40, Troops 2


Editor's Notes: Holy crap. An actual competitive list. Only 1 mistake. That 2nd Rune Priest. Give it up, and give the Wolf Lords some self-dogs + more dogs for that wolf unit. They aren't hard to torrent away. And what's with all the dozer blades? Who goes into terrain? =/

ARMY DESCRIPTION : Tyranids
Marcin Budzinski

HQ1: Tervigon (160), Catalyst (15), Cluster Spines (0) 175

Elite 1 : 3 Hive Guards 150
Elite 2 : 3 Hive Guards 150
Elite 3 : 3 Hive Guards 150

Troop 1 : Tervigon (160), Catalyst (15), Cluster Spines (0) 175
Troop 2 : 10 Termagants ( 10*5 ) 50
Troop 3 : 20 Genestealers (20*14) 280
Troop 4 : 20 Genestealers (20*14) 280
Troop 5 : 20 Genestealers (20*14), toxin sacs ( 20*3) 340

Editor's Notes: Well, it was fine right to the 60 Genestealers. Please delete those and buy real Tyranids that match this list.

ARMY DESCRIPTION : IG
Jakub Wichrowski "Skark"

HQ1: CCS 4 x melta, fist 105 in Transport1
HQ2: CCS 4 x melta, fist 105 in Transport2
T1: PCS 4 x flamers 50 in Transport3
T2: PCS 4 x flamers 50 in Transport4
T3: Inf Sq lascannon 70
T4: Inf Sq lascannon 70
T5: Inf Sq lascannon 70
T6: Inf Sq autocannon 60
E1: 6 Psykers 80
F1: Vendetta 130
F2: Vendetta 130
H1: 3 hydras 225
H2: 3 hydras 225
H3: manticore 160
Transport1: Chimera 55
Transport1: Chimera HF 55
Transport1: Chimera 55
Transport1: Chimera 55

Editor's Notes: CCS with fist is CCS with fail. Why are there no autocannon HW teams? Do people honestly believe lascannons in infantry squads kill anything reliably that isn't AV10 or 11? Well, they don't. Bring autocannons instead. What the hell is with the single Manticores? Is this more rtard blower crap ideas spreading like a virus? Sigh. Run another squadron of Hydras (so 3x2) and pick up some IST's to get in your Vendettas. Only a few mistakes, but they can be fixed.

ARMY DESCRIPTION : BA
Emanuel Furmańczyk "Eman"

Hq1: Librarian, Pack, Lance, Unleash Rage - 125;
Hq2: Chaplain 100;
H1: Pred Auto/Las - 135;
H2: Pred Auto/Las - 135;
H3: Pred Auto/Las - 135;
E1: 7 DC, 1xFist, 3 Power Weapon 210; Transport 1
E2: Priest Pack Claw 90;
T1: 10 Assault Sq Packs Fist 2xMelta - 235;
T2: 5 Assault Sq Flamer 120 Transport 2
T3: 5 Assault Fist/Melta 150 Transport 3
Transport 1: Land Rider MMelta, EA - 275;
Transport 2: Razor Las/Twin-Plasma 40
Transport 3: Rhino 0

Editor's Notes: Seriously, you bought an assault squad but did not buy a transport for them? I don't even get this list. If you focus on maximum anti-tank firepower, how do you kill masses of infantry? I assure you, hordes WILL find a way to kill marines. Sigh, it just won't work.

ARMY DESCRIPTION : Orks
Jakub Podruczny "Vladdi"

Hq:1 Warboss Fist, Mega-armour, Cybork Body, Bosspole 115
Hq2: Big Mek Kustom Force Field 85
E1: 3 Mega Nobz, Combi scorcha, Combi Rokita 130 in Transport 1
E2: 3 Mega Nobz, Combi scorcha, Combi Rokita 130 in Transport 2
T1: 3 Mega Nobz, Combi scorcha, Combi Rokita 130 in Transport 3
T2: 19 boyz, incl Nob, Fist, Bosspole 154
T3: 19 boyz, incl Nob, Fist, Bosspole 154
F1: 3 Warbuggie Rokita 105
F2: 3 Warbuggie Rokita 105
F3: 3 Warbuggie Rokita 105
H1: Battlewagon BShoota, Red Paint Job, Rolla, Riggers 125
H2: Batllewagon BShoota, Red Paint Job, Rolla, Riggers 125
Transport 1: Battlewagon BShoota, Red Paint Job, Rolla 120
Transport 2: Battlewagon BShoota, Red Paint Job, Rolla, Riggers 125
Transport 3: Trukk Reinforced Ram 40

All: 1748

Editor's Notes: Well, the Megas are cute. Not very effective though they are better choices than most but to be honest I'd rather have non-Meganobz with a painboy. Someone seems to know what to bring for Orks for the most part--but no lootas, at all? Man, that's harsh. Btw I'd ditch the Trukk. It's a crapfest. Even with the idea of hiding a troop in it and zooming forward, the amount of fire it will draw makes it unlikely it will work the way you want it to. I think a big unit of Nobz and 2 units of lootas (or even 3) is a better deal for you. Well, whatever, Orks are Orks.


Final note: Much improved lists, that Eldar one is pathetic. The Tyranid one might work just by confusing the gak out of people, but you guys do playtest against each other, right? How badly does the Space Wolf army smash your face? Like...every game? Or just 99% of them?



GERMANY

PLAYER 1: Fritz Peters, Lews Therin Telamon
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Daemons

HQ1 : Bloodthirster [250]
HQ2 : Bloodthirster [250]

Elite1 : 8 Bloodcrushers of Khorne (8x40), Standard Bearer(25), Musician(5), Fury of Khorne(10) [360]
Elite2 : 7 Bloodcrushers of Khorne (7x40), Standard Bearer(25), Musician(5), Fury of Khorne(10) [320]
Elite 3 : 6 Fiends of Slaanesh (6x30), Daemonic Strength(10) [190]

Troop 1 : 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5x15) [75]
Troop 2 : 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5x15) [75]
Troop 3 : 5 Plaguebearers of Nurgle (5x15) [75]

HS1: Daemonprince (80), Iron Hide(30), Mark of Slaanesh(10), offensive/defensive Grenades(5), Pavane of Slaanesh(30) [155]

TOTAL [(1750)pts]

Editor's Notes: Sigh. Another 'did you bring a foot army?' army.

Player2: Roland Zaglauer, vip-user
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Chaos Space Marines

HQ 1: Daemon Prince (110)+ Wings (20)+ Mark of Slaanesh (5)+ Lash of Submission (20)= 155 pts
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (110)+ Wings (20)+ Mark of Slaanesh (5)+ Lash of Submission (20)= 155 pts

Elite 1: 3 Chaos Terminators (90) + 3x combi-meltagun (3x5) + chainfist (15) = 120 pts
Elite 2: 3 Chaos Terminators (90) + 3x combi-meltagun (3x5) + chainfist (15) = 120 pts

Troop 1: 5 Chaos Space Marines 75 pts
Troop 2: 5 Chaos Space Marines 75 pts

HS 1: 3 Obliterators 225 pts
HS 2: 3 Obliterators 225 pts
HS 3: 2 Obliterators 150 pts

Transport 1: Chaos Land Raider, Dozer Blade [Terminator Squad (Elite 1)] 225 pts
Transport 2: Chaos Land Raider, Dozer Blade [Terminator Squad (Elite 2)] 225 pts

TOTAL 1750 pts

Editor's Notes: Another useless Lash army.

PLAYER 3: Denis Müller, Florida Boy
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Blood Angels

HQ1: Librarian (100) Jump Pack (25) The Sanguine Sword (0) Unleash Rage (0) - - - > 125 P
HQ2 : Reclusiarch (130), Jump Pack (25), Power fist (15) - - - > 170 P

Elite1 : 5 Sanguinary Guard (200), Power Fist (10), 2x Infernus Pistol (20), Chapter Banner (30) - - - > 260 P
Elite2 : 5 Assault Terminators (200), 4xTunder Hammer (20) - - - > 220 P
Elite 3 : Sanguinary Priest (50), Jump Pack (25), Lightning Claw (15), Melta B. (5) - - -> 95 P
Sanguinary Priest (50), Jump Pack (25), Lightning Claw (15), - - - > 90 P

Troop 1 : Assault Squad 10 Space Marines (190), 8 x Boltpistole, 2 x Meltagun (20), Power Fist (25). - - - > 235 P
Troop 2 : Assault Squad 10 Space Marines (190), 8 x Boltpistole, 2 x Meltagun (20), Power Fist (25). - - - > 235 P
Troop 3 : 5 Scout Squad (75), 4 x Sniper Rifle (0), Missile Launcher (10), Camo Cloak (15) - - - > 100 P

FA1: 3 Scout-Bike- Squad (70), Combi-Melta (10), Melta Bombs (5) - - - > 85 P

HS1: 5 Devastator- Squad (90), Multimelta (10), 2 x Missile Launcher (20), Plasma Cannon (15) - - - > 135 P

TOTAL [ 1750pts]

Editor's Notes: Let's see...it's got a dev squad that confuses itself, a scout bike squad to stop...scouts towards an assault army...the lolz can now commence, and it's running Termies, Jump Packs, and some Sanguinary Priests to show everyone how you mix-n-match poorly, ending up with a crapfest of a list.

PLAYER 4: (Kayu, Orellana, FenneQ)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : (Space Wolves)

HQ1 : Wolfpriest (100) Wolftalisman (5) [105p]
Runepriest (100) living lightning (free) Jaws of the WW (free) [100)
HQ2 : Runepriest (100) Wolftalisman (5) Jaws of the WW (free) murderous hurricane (0) [105]
Runepriest (100p) Bolter (free) living lightning (free) murderous hurricane (free) [100p]

Elite1 : 10 Wolfguard-Terminators (10x33) 3 Shield (3x15) 2 Cyclonmissilelauncher (2x30) 4 Powerweapon (free) 4 Wolfclaw (4x5) 1 Powerfist (10) 1 Chainfist (15) [480]
Elite2 : 1 Cybot (105) Stormbolter (free) Twinlinked Autocannon (10) [115]

Troop 1 : 5 Greyhunters (5x15) 1 Flamer (free) [75]
Troop 2 : 5 Greyhunters (5x15) 1 Flamer (free) [75]
Troop 3 : 5 Greyhunters (5x15) 1 Flamer (free) [75]

FA1: 4 Thunderwolve cavalry (4x50) 1 Powerfist (25) 1 Stormshield (30) 1 Meltabombs (5) [260]
FA2: 4 Thunderwolve cavalry (4x50) 1 Powerfist (25) 1 Stormshield (30) 1 Meltabombs (5) [260]

Editor's Notes: So...it's land of the 'I can take 4 HQ's, WEE!', insufficient troops, and some TWC. Oh yeah and a Dread plus a bunch of Wolf Guard Terminators. Probably combat squad'ed. It's like it's trying to do Loganwing without Logan. Silly really.

PLAYER5 : Philipp, Streckmann, PhiSt
Army Description: Orkz

HQ1 : Big Mek (35), Kustom force shield (50), boss pole(5) [90]

Elite1 : 5 Lootaz (5x15) :[75]
Elite2 : 5 Lootaz (5x15) :[75]

Troop 1 : 30 Boyz(30x6) nob(10) power claw(25) boss pole (5): [220]
Troop 2 : 30 Boyz(30x6) nob(10) power claw(25) boss pole (5): [220]
Troop 3 : 29 Boyz(29x6) shootaz (free) nob(10) power claw(25): [209]
Troop 4 : 29 Boyz(29x6) shootaz (free) nob(10) power claw(25) boss pole (5): [214]
Troop 5 : 25 Boyz(25x6) shootaz (free) nob(10) power claw(25) 2 big shootaz (2x5): [195]

FA1: Deffkopta (35) buzzsaw(25) :[60]

HS1: 3 Killa kans (3x35) 3xgrotzooka(3x10) :[135]
HS2: 3 Killa kans (3x35) 3xgrotzooka(3x10) :[135]
HS3: 3 Killa kans (3x35) 3xbig shootaz(3x5) :[120]

Editor's Notes: Well, I guess this is the army Demons want to fight? Needs more guns. What's with the scout unit? Nobody in their right mind is going to scout near you. lol This is where tactics fail at the army building stage.

PLAYER 6: (Mario, Sandhövel, SonOfPhoenix)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : (Tyranids)

HQ1 : Hive Tyrant (170) (psychic scream, Paroxysm)Twin linked devourer with brainleech worms (15) Twin linked devourer with brainleech worms (15) Hive Commander (25) Old Adversary (25) :[250]
HQ1 2 Tyrant Guard (120) 2 Bonesword (30): [150]
HQ2 : Warrior Prime (80) Pair of boneswords (10) Rending claws (free) : [90]

Elite1 : 2 Hive Guard (50x2): 100
Elite2 : 5 Yrmgarl Genestealers (5x23) [115]
Elite3 : 5 Yrmgarl Genestealers (5x23) [115]

Troop 1 : Tervigon (160) Adrenal Glands (10) Catalyst (15)stinger salvo (free) : [185]
Troop 2 : 10 Termagaunts (5x10) fleshborers (free) : [50]
Troop 3 : 14 Genestealers (14x14) Broodlord-Upgrade (46) : [242]
Troop 4 : 14 Genestealers (14x14) Broodlord-Upgrade (46) : [242]

HS1: 1 Trygon (200) Adrenalin glands (10) : [210]

TOTAL [1749pts]

Editor's Notes: Wow, 2 guns, in one unit. And we're done.

PLAYER 7: (Simon Oerding, braindead, Captain)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : (Eldar)

HQ1: Farseer (55), runes of warding (15), runes of witnessing (10), spirit stones (20), doom (25), fortune (30), jetbike (30): [185]
HQ2: Farseer (55), runes of witnessing (10), spirit stones (20), mindwar (20), fortune (30), jetbike (30): [165]
HQ3: 10 Warlocks (10x25), jetbikes (10x20), 2 singing spears (2x3), embolden (10), enhance (15): [476]
HQ4: 9 Warlocks (9x25), jetbikes (9x20), 2 singing spears (2x3), embolden (10), enhance (15): [431]

Troops1: 3 Guardian jetbikes (3x22), shuriken cannon (10): [76]
Troops1: 3 Guardian jetbikes (3x22), shuriken cannon (10): [76]
Troops3: 5 Dire Avengers (5x12): [60]

HS1: Illum Zar [115]
HS2: Falcon (115), holo fields (35), spirit stones (10), shuriken cannon (5): [165]

TOTAL [1749pts]

Editor's Notes: Great it's dual seer council, maxed out, in the points values where it doesn't scale properly. Ah well, here's hoping for craptastic Orks and no cheaters, eh?

PLAYER 8: (Jakob Salzmann,Amasec)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : (Imperial Guard)

HQ 1: Company Command Squad, 4 plasma guns (4x15): [110], in transport 1
HQ 2: Company Command Squad, 4 melta guns (4x10): [90], in transport 2

Elites 1: 8 Sanctioned Psykers (60+3x10), Overseer: [90], in transport 3

Troops1: 10 Veterans (70), 3 Melta guns (3x10) = 100, in transport 4
Troops2: Platoon Command Squad (30), 4 melta guns (4x10): [70], in transport 5
Troops3: Infantry Squad (50), flamer (5), Commissar (35) with power weapon (10): [100]
Troops4: Infantry Squad (50), flamer (5): [55]
Troops5: Heavy Weapon Team (30), 3 autocannons (3x15): [75]
Troops6: Heavy Weapon Team (30), 3 autocannons (3x15): [75]

FA1: Vendetta Gunship [130]
FA2: Vendetta Gunship [130]
FA3: Vendetta Gunship [130]

HS1: Manticore (160), hull heavy flamer: [160]
HS2: Manticore (160), hull heavy flamer: [160]

Transport 1: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 2: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 3: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 4: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]
Transport 5: Chimera (55), Multilaser, Heavy Flamer: [55]

TOTAL [1750pts]

Editor's Notes: So...this is Frodo's Ring, right? One army to rule them all? Ah well, what can you do if the rest of your team sucks. Enjoy winning all of your games while your team loses all around you.

Final notes: So, this is where all the grown-men, playing in 'real' tournaments, come to show us just what they've learned, huh? Team America + Team Germany, the double fail threat for ETC 2010.


SPAIN

PLAYER 1: José Diego Méndez Díaz. (Boldo)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space Wolves

HQ 1: Runic Priest (100), chooser of the slain (10), Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning = [110]
HQ 2: Runic Priest (100) Jaws of the World Wolf, Murderous hurricane = [100]
HQ 3: Wolf lord (100), runic armour (20), thunder wolf (45), power fist (25), storm shield (30), Wolf Tail Talisman (5), saga of majesty(15), fenrisian wolf (10) = [250]

Troop 1: 7 Grey hunters (105), Wolf Standard 10), meltagun (5), Transport 1 = [120]
Troop 2: 7 Grey hunters (105), Wolf Standard 10), meltagun (5), Transport 2 = [120]
Troop 3: 10 Grey hunters (150), 2 meltagun (5) = [155]

ELITE 1: 5 scouts (75), meltagun (10) = [85]
ELITE 2: 3 wolf guards (54), 3 powerfist (60), 3 combimelta (15) = [129]

FA 1: 15 Fenrisian wolves (120) = [120]

HS 1: 1 leader and 5 long fangs (90), 3 missile launchers (30), 2 laser cannon (50) = [170]
HS 2: 1 leader and 5 long fangs (90), 3 missile launchers (30), 2 laser cannon (50) = [170]
HS 3: 1 leader and 5 long fangs (90), 5 missile launchers (50) = [140]

Transport 1: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5), transport troops 1 = [40]
Transport 2: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5), transport troops 2 = [40]

Total : [1749]

Editor's Notes: Well, two minor issues. Two Rune Priests is not necessary. Saga of Majesty instead of Warrior Born? Ugh. Well, I'd also invest in 4 GH squads in Rhinos instead of the current setup, but hey that's just me.

PLAYER 2: Julio Torrado Rodriguez. (dArDlE)
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Blood Angels.

HQ 1: Librarian (100),Unleash Rage & shield of Sanguinius, Bolt Pistol (0), = [100]

Elite 1: 5 Assault terminators (200), 4 Thunder hammers & Storm Shield (20), on Transport 1 = [220]
Elite 2: 5 Assault terminators (200), 4 Thunder hammers & Storm Shield (20), on Transport 2 = [220]
Elite 3: 2 Sanguinary priests (100), 2* Bolt pistols & CCW (0), = [100]

Troops 1: 10 Assault marines (190), 2 Meltaguns (20), Inferno Pistol (15), Power Fist (25) = [250]
Troops 2: 10 Assault marines (190), 2 Meltaguns (20), Power Fist (25) = [235]
Troops 3: 5 Scouts (75), 5 Sniper Rifle (0), Melta Bomb (5), Cammo cloaks (15) = [95]

Transport 1: Land Raider Redeemer (240), Multi-Melta (10), Extra Armour (15) = [265]
Transport 2: Land Raider Redeemer (240), Multi-Melta (10), Extra Armour (15) = [265]

Total: [1750]

Editor's Note: Well that's certainly going to be a big beat stick of an army. While not subtle by any means, people will end up not liking going up against it. I expect balanced Guard will destroy you though.

PLAYER 3: David Alegre Castro. (Harridan)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Imperial Guard

HQ 1: Company Command Squad (50) + 3*meltagun (30) + regimental standard (15) = [95 pts], in Transport 1.
HQ 2: Company Command Squad (50) + 4*meltagun (40) = [90 pts].

Elite 1: Psyker Battle Squad (60) + 4 additional Sanctioned Psykers (40) = [100 pts], in Transport 2.

Troop 1: Infantry Platoon
- Troop 1a- Platoon Command Squad (30) +autocannon (10) + 2*flamer (10) = [50 pts], in Transport 3.
- Troop 1b- Infantry Squad (50) + Autocannon (10) + flamer (5) = [65 pts], in Transport 4.
- Troop 1c- Infantry Squad (50) + Autocannon (10) = [60 pts], in Transport 5.
Troop 2 : Veteran Squad (70) + 3*Meltagun (30) + Autocannon (10) = [110 pts], in Transport 6.
Troop 3 : Veteran Squad (70) + 3*Meltagun (30) = [100pts]

FA 1: Vendetta (130) + 2 Heavy Bolters (10) = [140 pts]
FA 2: Vendetta (130) + 2 Heavy Bolters (10) = [140 pts]
FA 3: Vendetta (130) = [130 pts]

HS 1: Manticore Rocket Launcher, Heavy Flamer = [160 pts]
HS 2: Manticore Rocket Launcher, Heavy Flamer = [160 pts]

Transport 1: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Flamer, Dozer blade (10) = [65 pts]
Transport 2: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 3: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 4: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 5: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Bolter = [55 pts]
Transport 6: Chimera Transport , multi-laser, Heavy Flamer, Dozer blade (10) = [65 pts]

Total: [1750]

Editor's Notes: Well it's certainly better than the usual crap. I'm confused as to all these IG armies. Why no HW teams? Why no IST units for the Vendettas? Number of infantry troops should equal transports, discounting HW teams or blob units--and the number of transports needs to include Vendettas. I wish these basic list concepts were followed--you want scoring units in every transport so you can...score with every vehicle possible.

PLAYER 4: Moisés Ronda Ferrer. (Mohicanoska)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Eldar

HQ 1: Autarch (70), mandiblasters (10), power weapon (10), Fusion gun (10) = [100]
HQ 2: Farseer (55), runes of warding (15), runes of witnessing (10), spirit stones (20), doom (25), fortune( 30) = [155]

Elite 1: 5 fire dragons = [80], in Transport 1
Elite 2: 5 fire dragons = [80], in Transport 2
Elite 3: 5 fire dragons = [80], in Transport 3

Troop 1:9 dire avengers(108), exarch (12) with power weapon and shimmershield (15), defend (15), bladestorm (15) =[165], in Transport 4
Troop 2: 5 dire avengers = [60]
Troop 3: 5 dire avengers = [60]

HS1: Falcon (115), shuriken cannon (5), vectored engines (20), spirit stones (10), holo-fields (35) = [185]
HS2: 3 war walker squadron (90), 6 scatter laser (90) = [180]
HS3: 2 war walker squadron (60), 4 scatter laser (60) = [120]

Transport 1: Wave serpent (90), twin-linked scatter lasers (25), spirit stones (10) = [125]
Transport 2: Wave serpent (90), twin-linked scatter lasers( 25), spirit stones (10) = [125]
Transport 3: Wave serpent (90), twin-linked shuriken cannons (10), spirit stones (10) = [110]
Transport 4: Wave serpent (90), twin-linked scatter lasers (25), spirit stones (10) = [125]

Total: [1750]

Editor's Notes: Well the first Eldar list I can accept. I still don't like War Walkers (which should just have 5 Scatter Lasers each) but with 3 Fire Dragon units zooming forward life should be a pita. Not sure on the viability of foot DA, once the War Walkers are shot down there's nothing else to shoot light weapons at but them.

PLAYER 5: Alejandro Martín Fernández. (Kult)
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Chaos Space Marines

HQ 1: Daemon Prince (110) + Wings (20) + Mark of Slaanesh (5) + Lash of Submission (20) = [155]
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (110) + Wings (20) + Mark of Slaanesh (5) + Lash of Submission (20) = [155]

Elite 1: 3 Chaos Terminators (90) + 3x combi-meltagun (15) = [105], in Transport 1

Troop 1: 5 Plague Marines (115) + meltagun (10) = [125]
Troop 2: 5 Plague Marines(115) + 2X meltagun (20) = [135], in Transport 2
Troop 3: 8 Berzerkers (168) + Personal Icon (5)+ Skull Champion (15) + Power fist (25) = [213]

HS 1: 3 Obliterators [225]
HS 2: 3 Obliterators [225]
HS 3: 2 Obliterators [150]

Transport 1: Chaos Land Raider + Dirge Caster (+5) = [225]
Transport 2: Chaos Rhino = [35]

Total: [1748]

Editor's Notes: Sigh. A LR with a Dirge Caster? Really?

PLAYER 6: Fernando Castañón, (Shadowblade)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Space Marines

HQ1: Librarian (100): Null Zone, Avenger (0), Bolt pistol (0) = [100]
HQ2: Captain (100), bike (35), relic blade (30), artificer Armor (15), combimelta (10) = [190]

Elite1: 5 Assault terminators (200): 5 Hammer & Shield = [200]
Elite2: 5 Assault terminators (200): 5 Hammer & Shield = [200]

Troop1: 10 Space marines (170): Lasscannon (10), meltagun (5), meltabombs (5) = [190] in Transport 1
Troop2: 8 Space marine bikes + 1 Attack bike (255): 2 meltagun (20), power fist (25), Multimelta (10) = [310]

HS1: Land Raider (250): Multimelta (10) = [260]
HS1: Land Raider (250): Multimelta (10) = [260]

Transport1: Rhino (35), dozer blade (5) = [40]

Total: 1750

Editor's Notes: Hey that looks familiar. It's a bit too much unbalanced though.

PLAYER 7: Antonio Garrido Sánchez (Harkonlord) [CAPTAIN]
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Orks

HQ 1: Warboss (60): Power Klaw (25), Warbike (40), Cybork Body (10) = [135]
HQ 2: Big Mek (35): Kustom Force Field (50), Bosspole (5) = [90]

Elite 1: 13 Lootas =[195]
Elite 2: 13 Lootas =[195]

Troop 1: 4 Nobs (80): 4 bikes (100), 2 Power Klaws (50), Waaaaagh Banner (15), Bosspole (5), Painboy (30), Cybork Bodies (20) = [300]
Troop 2: 30 Ork Boyz (180): 2 Big Shootas (10), Shootas (Free), Nob (10) with Bosspole (5) and Power Klaw (25) = [230]
Troop 3: 20 Ork Boyz (120): 1 Big Shoota (5), Shootas (Free), Nob (10) with Bosspole (5) and Power Klaw (25) = [165]
Troop 4: 20 Ork Boyz (120): Slugga and Choppa (Free), Nob (10) with Bosspole (5) and Power Klaw (25) = [160]
Troop 5: 10 Gretchins (30), Runtherd (10) =[40]

HS1: 3 Killa Kans: 3 Big Shoota (15) =[120]
HS2: 3 Killa Kans: 3 Big Shoota (15) =[120]

Total: [1750]

Editor's Notes: Mini-death star, Ork Boyz, Lootas and Kans. Not terrible, but I do think you could manage to include more firepower in the list. Buggies, Kans, Lootas. Maxing those units out helps Orks quite a bit. Minimizing actual Ork units also helps.

PLAYER 8: Eduardo González de Molina Soler. (brujo!)
ARMY DESCRIPTION : Witch Hunters

HQ1 : Cannonnes (45), Eviscerator (25), Bolt Pistol (1), Book of St.Lucius (5), Cloak of st.Aspira (20), Jump Pack (20), Mantle of Ophelia (15) = [131]
HQ2 : Cannonnes (45), Eviscerator (25), Bolt Pistol (1), Book of St.Lucius (5), Cloak of st.Aspira (20), Jump Pack (20) = [116]
Elite 1a : Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor (20), Bolter-Plasma Gun (15) = [35]
Elite 1b : Retinue: 3x Veteran Guardsman (30), 3x Plasma Gun(30), 3x Acolyte(24), 3x Bolter-Flamer(30) = [114], in Transport 3
Elite2 : Callidus Temple Assassin = [120]

Troop 1 : 10 Battle Sister Squad (110), Veteran Sister Superior (14), Brazier of Holy Fire (10), Heavy Flamer (12), Meltagun (10) = [156], in Transport 1
Troop 2 : 10 Battle Sister Squad (110), Veteran Sister Superior (14), Combi-Meltagun (15), 2x Meltagun (20) = [159], in Transport 2
Troop 3 : 10 Battle Sister Squad (110), Veteran Sister Superior (14), Book of st.Lucius (5), Meltagun (10) = [139]

HS1: Exorcist = [135]
HS2: Exorcist = [135]
HS3: Exorcist = [135]

Transport1 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3) = [58]
Transport2 : Rhino (50), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3), Searchlight (1) = [59]
Transport3 : Land Raider (250), Extra Armour (5), Smoke Launchers (3) = [258]

TOTAL [1750]

Editor's Notes: Hey it's a 1500 point Sisters list with a Land Raider attached to it, from 4th edition no less. Sorry, make that 1250. Two flying nuns?! Well at least there aren't any Seraphim...sigh.

Final Notes: Come on now, you are almost up there with Ukraine on having good lists. Pare some crap, have all good lists!

Hey, Stelek is posting on Dakka again!

willydstyle wrote:Hey, Stelek is posting on Dakka again!

Just indirectly. Ignore his comments if you like.

I've got no beef with him. While I think he is wrong a lot of the time and doesn't have the ego to admit it, he still posts better information than 90% of dakka users.

Well, Stelek is a pro and belongs to the 40k celebreties.

willydstyle wrote:I've got no beef with him. While I think he is wrong a lot of the time and doesn't have the ego to admit it, he still posts better information than 90% of dakka users.

Think about what you just said. Some people might feel you yourself are not in the exclusive 10 percent.

Anyways it's like I said, all the lists start to look the same after awhile and there are no secret builds. It's more about what you can do.

willydstyle wrote:I've got no beef with him. While I think he is wrong a lot of the time and doesn't have the ego to admit it, he still posts better information than 90% of dakka users.

And yet, he was completely unqualified to assess ETC 40k lists...

I wonder what his excuses will be.

Yeah, congrats and big respect to the US team!
I have to admit I, just like many if not most of Europeans, had the US marked for the last third of the field. Reasons being their strange and mostly not really hard lists and inexperience with the pairing system.

They seem to have done their homework though and obviously are skilled players, the draws against Sweden and Spain were very impressive indeed and to lose against Poland is no shame (they are still undeafeted in ETC tourneys!).
US had draw luck on the first day and only played lower tier countries but the second day showed they have potential to play for the win next year. I hope they do, the more serious competition the better.

@Hulksmash and others who believe the US played the wrong strategy, I challenge you to come next year and prove it.
I strongly believe you are wrong in your assessment that a team of 8 all-comers is superior to the current strategy of the top-teams, but I'm also very interested in how that would exactly work out if 8 skilled players were using those type of lists.

@Rhyskalor: Perhaps if the US placed all 8 of their guys in the top 10 of the Singles, that might work.

Why do people think 40k is a rock-paper-scissors game? The notion that you can just select a "hardened" list as a good counter to an opponent's list is just absurd.

The US did right, despite taking "not perfect" lists ... if even the same team spent a year practicing with perfectly optimized lists so that they were as comfortable with them as with what they brought (which is why what they brought was better than "perfectly optimized" this year around), they'd be fine.

Congrats to the USA team.

MVBrandt wrote:Why do people think 40k is a rock-paper-scissors game? The notion that you can just select a "hardened" list as a good counter to an opponent's list is just absurd.

The US did right, despite taking "not perfect" lists ... if even the same team spent a year practicing with perfectly optimized lists so that they were as comfortable with them as with what they brought (which is why what they brought was better than "perfectly optimized" this year around), they'd be fine.

QFT

I'd be happy to attend if given the opportunity. If we can come up with a proper way of qualifying for it next year I'll try to make it to the qualifiers no matter where they are. That being said I think the biggest problem with the US is the sheer scale of it. Most of the other 20 teams come from an area not much larger than Texas. Getting together for a series of tournaments to determine a team is much harder.

Maybe we can get a Canada team to. Then some of us can merc out Then at least we'll manage to send 2 north american teams to the UK's 4 teams....

I'll second that 40k isn't rock/paper/scissors. Taking a list good for you is more important than taking one you haven't presonally tweaked. Hopefully the US can get their team for next year set up early and start tweaking lists from day 1. I hope someone steps up and runs a similar tournament in the US with maybe state teams? It would help a)determine who we should be sending (no dig on the people who went, they did great) and b)would give some much needed experience in this format. Just a thought.

@Hulk: Maybe a Mexican team, too?

We can all chant: "Go NAFTA, Go NAFTA!! "

I'm down. A united North America!

I wonder if as big as the US is if they would allow multiple US teams if we had enough people.

US North
US South
US Mid-west
US West

?

@ Hulksmash

If you had come to Adepticon this year you would have had the opportunity to qualify for the team.

MVBrandt wrote:Why do people think 40k is a rock-paper-scissors game? The notion that you can just select a "hardened" list as a good counter to an opponent's list is just absurd.

Because there are aspects of the game that are like rock/paper/scissors. There are also aspects that are not.

I think that, in general, there are two types of list. One is proactive - it says this is what I'm going to do, and you can try to stop me. The other is reactive, and adjusts what it does to what its opponent is doing.

Some codexes make better proactive armies, some make better reactive codexes. Orks are an example of a codex that works better proactively. The ork player pretty much says, "I've got 180 boyz" or "I've got 4 battlewagons", and dares you to stop them. Codex Marines tend to work better reactively. If you're playing against guard, motor towards them and close the distance, if you're playing against orks, sit tight and get as many shooting phases in as possible. (Note, orks can do reactive, and marines can do proactive - I'm not saying they're forced to be this way)

Reactive armies tend to be more balanced - they have to be in order to react to whatever their opponent is playing. Proactive armies, on the other hand, do best when they seek to overload their opponent's ability to handle one sort of threat. This can be too many AV12 vehicles, too many infantry, too many AV14 vehicles, or whatever. They're saying, I've got more of this than you can handle, so I'm going to dictate this battle.

Reactive armies kind of exist outside the Rock-Paper-Scissors aspect of the game. If you made your reactive army well, it's going to have the tools to deal with a horde, a monstrous creature rush, or a mech gunline. But proactive armies can very easily fall to matchup problems, especially when they run into another proactive army that happens to have the tools to beat them. 180 slugga boyz aren't going to do well against 16 bloodcrushers, let alone bloodcrushers backed by fateweaver. Even charging they stand to lose combats, and by a lot.

A Tyranid list with lots of multi-wound T4 models poses a threat to a lot of armies. If your army relies on meltas and autocannons, then those warriors and raveners are either too close, or you're expending a lot of firepower to remove models. But when that same army has to face 15 long fangs with missiles, all of those wounds count for naught.

Some armies don't have easy counters, that's true. Balanced reactive armies don't generally have matchup issues. But others do. If your plan involves having too many land raiders for your opponent to deal with, 9 twin-linked rail guns can sure spoil your day

Anyhow - congrats to the US team, well fought - post some pics

MVBrandt wrote:Why do people think 40k is a rock-paper-scissors game? The notion that you can just select a "hardened" list as a good counter to an opponent's list is just absurd.

Want to play? I'm bringing a Chaos Daemons army...good thing you can't make a list to take advantage of that.

I do not think the idea of more than 1 team per country is a good idea. Then you get into dividing the country and its only fair to offer other teams the same chance. There appears to be an ever growing Indy GT scene that is fueling a lot of events of grand scale. If you goto those, you start meeting guys from across the country. I attend mostly Northeast events, didn't make Adepticon this year. But if you asked me who were some of the top tier Fantasy Players, I'd have named a couple guys on that WFB team

AOE: I mean, I don't list tailor ... I invite list tailoring ... and I bring Strakenguard anytime I play ... with basically no changes. Leafblowers, double jetseers, razorwolves, whatevs ...


I guess that's a yes, sure? This list isn't really about me, and despite an excellent track record I don't feel I'm on "prove how awesome I am" row, b/c it's a toy soldiers game.

Redbeard - true enough; I generally think the best lists are buildable, are true all comers, and can come out of any dex ... able to handle any of the "rock" armies out there, that live and breathe off strong combos and getting favorable match-ups in battle point systems.


NJPC - Too early for me to even ponder multiple teams per country, but without a formal national evaluation system, it should generally be allowed. If a 2nd US team forms and wants to go, which one gets to go? That's an argument I shouldn't have to carry further to prove a point.

For now, the only props due are to the Americans who went ... I didn't see another team of 8 all paid up volunteered and ready to go, so any kind of criticism is really just snipin' from the peanut gallery.

MVBrandt wrote:AOE: I mean, I don't list tailor ... I invite list tailoring ... and I bring Strakenguard anytime I play ... with basically no changes. Leafblowers, double jetseers, razorwolves, whatevs ...


I guess that's a yes, sure? This list isn't really about me, and despite an excellent track record I don't feel I'm on "prove how awesome I am" row, b/c it's a toy soldiers game.

You missed my point or I communicated it poorly . It wasn't a real challenge, I was simply pointing out that you can indeed make a 'hardened' list to counter an opponent's list...and was made tongue in cheek...

We can arm wrestle or something though if you want. I'll warn you though, I use the Over the Top method and train off my semi mirrors.

I sweep the leg when arm wrestling.

Do you have a problem with that?


I "sorta" got your point ... I get that you can "harden" a list to try and counter someone, if list tailoring is enabled; that point taken, I actually don't think it matters. I routinely invite people to custom tailor any list with any proxy vs. me, and routinely win regardless ... a true all comers isn't really "tailorable" against, in a material enough way to bypass its operator's skill (in short, I don't care what you do, I'll beat you whatever you bring, with the lists I use). I / you generically, of course.

Your raptor Jesus entrances me.

MVBrandt wrote:
Your raptor Jesus entrances me.

He went extinct for your sins...


On topic, I would be interested to hear from the guys that played. Mostly, I wondered how difficult the language barrier became...given some of the vague language 40k offers and how important in game communication becomes during complicated hand to hand, etc...

@SV2.7

I didn't know about it in time to play to be honest. I could wish that major TO's from the major gaming areas (WestCoast, Chicago/Midwest, Texas/Southeast, and Northeast) would get together and figure out a way to create a qualifier system for the team. There are some consistant TO's who run multiple or enormous GT's/Cons so it should be possible.

@Njpc

To be honest the UK fields 4 teams. Texas and California were their own nations before becoming part of the United States. To be fair they have pretty much the same control over themselves as Wales/Scotland/North Ireland, possibly more. But also getting 16 guys who want to fly to Europe to play with little toy soldiers probably wouldn't be easy either

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:@ Hulksmash

If you had come to Adepticon this year you would have had the opportunity to qualify for the team.

Wow, one tournament who's FAQ basically makes it Adeptihammer 40k = the only chance to qualify?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Hulk, the invitation to join Team Canada next year is still open. We have real beer and are still a member of Her Majesty's Glorious Monarchy

Hulksmash wrote:@SV2.7

I didn't know about it in time to play to be honest. I could wish that major TO's from the major gaming areas (WestCoast, Chicago/Midwest, Texas/Southeast, and Northeast) would get together and figure out a way to create a qualifier system for the team. There are some consistant TO's who run multiple or enormous GT's/Cons so it should be possible.

@Njpc

To be honest the UK fields 4 teams. Texas and California were their own nations before becoming part of the United States. To be fair they have pretty much the same control over themselves as Wales/Scotland/North Ireland, possibly more. But also getting 16 guys who want to fly to Europe to play with little toy soldiers probably wouldn't be easy either

My understanding of what they use to set the teams was "whatever the UEFA confederation allows in UEFA" when they started allowing none UEFA nations in they stuck with the same idea and opened things up to all members of the 6 confederations as set by FIFA. Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA

There have been numerous requests for multiple teams from the same nation all met with a solid "no". So people tried to enter via loop holes, e.g. Faroe Islands, this year people even wanted to makle a Team Vatican City because the Italian team was full. So, they do have reason(s) for rejecting multiple teams from the same nation, you'll have to counter that, whatever it is, and then somehow secure the number of slots you want for your nation before they over fill on multiples of European teams (not likely).

I was curious if the game is played in inches over there in Europe. They have the metric system, do 40k players in Europe have to learn inches just to play the game? If it is in cm do they roll a D6 and multiply by 2.54 to get the cm of a run or consolidation move?? Were the Americans forced to play with 100 cm range missile launchers? I am just curious on all the codex measurement translations.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I was curious if the game is played in inches over there in Europe. They have the metric system, do 40k players in Europe have to learn inches just to play the game? If it is in cm do they roll a D6 and multiply by 2.54 to get the cm of a run or consolidation move?? Were the Americans forced to play with 100 cm range missile launchers? I am just curious on all the codex measurement translations.

The game is in inches there. I, as a canadian, had to "learn" inches just to play also. But considering the game does not jump from feet to inches to yards there is no real learning required, they even put the IG's Death Strike Launcher as 12-960 inches . Inches is just "that" distance or a multiple there of.

Bunker wrote:
Wow, one tournament who's FAQ basically makes it Adeptihammer 40k = the only chance to qualify?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Hulk, the invitation to join Team Canada next year is still open. We have real beer and are still a member of Her Majesty's Glorious Monarchy

I think the biggest hurdle to assembling a team is *not* holding a tournament to find the best players in the country, but actually finding a 'team' of people actually willing to shell out the several thousand dollar cost to attend. I think lots of people say they would be interested in attending but once they're faced with the expense of the airfare and hotel when it finally comes time to step up to the plate quite a few would be forced to bow out.

I honestly believe that if you were to just hold an independent tournament to decide who would be on the ETC you'd end up with a 'team' in which quite a few of the members would be stoked to go but then one thing or another would come up and half (or more) of the team would have to drop out due to the things that come up in life and get in the way.

Part of the reason I think the USA team was actually able to go this year was because a core group of people essentially committed to going. These were are players who were absolutely on board and were not going to drop out at the last second. However, they didn't have enough players to fill the team out so the last few spots were 'filled in' using the players playing at Adepticon, which should be an acceptable idea since Adepticon is the largest collection of 40K players in the world.

Also, it isn't like this core group of players 'stole' these spots from someone else. The ETC has been around for a bit and no US team has attended before, so the fact that some people stepped up to actually get a US team over there this year is a great thing IMHO. Obviously in following years if a whole other team of players wants to assemble and represent as the US team, then there could be an issue, but until that happens I think if the core US team is willing to keep putting up their time and money to travel then that's who are representatives are going to be even if some may not think they are absolutely the 'best' players the US has to offer.


And finally as to the idea that playing in a tournament like Adepticon that uses the INAT FAQ somehow makes those games 'Adeptihammer' instead of '40K', I'm sorry but that's a fallacy. All the questions in the INAT FAQ are questions asked by players and all the answers are reasonably based on interpretations that some (if not most) players use. If you don't personally agree with some or most of the rulings in the INAT FAQ, that's of course your prerogative, but it doesn't change the fact that there are other people out there who play with those rulings regardless of whether or not they've ever heard of the INAT FAQ or not.

The truth is, yeah you can say playing with the INAT is 'INAThammer', but that isn't any different then playing at the NOVA with their FAQ is 'NOVAhammer'. And really when you play your games at home you're playing 'Bunkerhammer' and I'm playing 'yakhammer'. The 40K rules are diverse and loosely written enough to the point where there are multiple interpretations of many, many rules and the way that you think any one ruling should be played is not necessarily going to match the way your opponent thinks it is or the tournament judge thinks it is.

And most importantly, if a player is going over to play in the ETC, they're going to play 'ETChammer', so if they're not adept enough to handle adjusting to 'INAThammer' then they really shouldn't be going over to Europe to play anyway.

@Bunker

Find 7 other guys and I'm in. The wife said if I can earn the money on painting commissions (which I can) then I can go. Just call me your American Mercenary

I have to agree with Yak that finding the number of people willing to pay that kind of money for 40k is the bigger problem. But I also think that until this first team went most people hadn't even heard of this event (myself included). I'll be interested in how it's put together for next year.

yakface wrote:
All the questions in the INAT FAQ are questions asked by players and all the answers are reasonably based on interpretations that some (if not most) players use.

Except the Tyranid and Blood Angels rulings that the INAT got wrong. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, was most of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hulksmash wrote:Just call me your American Mercenar-eh

Fixed that for you

Hulksmash wrote:Find 7 other guys and I'm in. The wife said if I can earn the money on painting commissions (which I can) then I can go.

She doesn't think you can do it, or she wouldn't have OK'd it. Of course, now that the wife put it right in your face, you NEED to do this, for husbands everywhere!

I would be down, would be very much worth it. I have expressed it before but I would also be down to sponsor the team. I dont know how big a % painting is over there though. Represent AND go over seas for the first time, for Warhammer, yes please.

I just need to get out more often. Adepticon needs to be twice a year. Give my rusty butt the two chances I would need.

And the locals are all about fantasy only :(

@John

She might not think I can do it but she'll keep her word if I do so if Bunker (thanks for fixing that for me buddy ) can get 7 people from our sleepy neighbor to the north I'd be happy to join them

@GMM

You painting an army built for that would be amazing. I think there is a lot of support personally out there now that Team USA could pull in.

I'm telling you. Now that the idea is out there there will be a lot more interest. Finding a way to build a team from the US might not be as easy as picking 7 other people anymore.

Bunker wrote:

Except the Tyranid and Blood Angels rulings that the INAT got wrong. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, was most of them.

What do you mean by 'wrong' here? The goal of the INAT is to try to make rulings the way most people play, so the main criteria our ruling would be wrong is if most people don't play that way. And when that's the case, we try to identify it and get it changed with the next update of the INAT.

Now, if you're talking about 'wrong' being that our rulings didn't match what GW put out with their FAQ release, then yeah I will correct you. In both cases, of the rulings both the INAT and GW FAQs shared, there were more that matched how we ruled then the opposite...besides the fact that GW's FAQ didn't cover many of the questions and rulings we have for both codexes.

But if that's the metric you're going to by for 'right' or 'wrong' then I have to say this is a very, very difficult goal to aim for because GW's rulings veer from RAW based in some cases to completely 100% against the RAW with other rulings. The fact that we put out the INAT FAQ before their update means we put our foot forward and invariably there are going to be differences between the two because nobody knows exactly how GW is going to rule on any given subject. We all have our theories, but I'm sure no one would have predicted that GW wouldn't allow Shadow in the Warp to affect embarked units or Furioso Librarians not be able to take any equipment, etc.


At the end of the day for those who despise the INAT FAQ, there is nothing I can ever say or write that will change your opinion other than to change every ruling in the document to match your personal opinions, but the truth is and always has been that the document comes from a positive place. It was created because so many people (right here on Dakka) kept posting about how they wished someone would take the time to make a comprehensive tournament FAQ and if they did, they'd use it. So I did because I wanted to create something that might help other people if they liked it. We've never lobbied for tournaments to use it...if people find it helpful for their tournament they use it, if they don't, they don't use it...no big deal.

And even at tournaments that use the INAT, like Adepticon, no judge walks around and enforces the INAT on players who aren't willing. The only time the rulings come into play is when two players have a disagreement and call over a judge to make a ruling, and that's the whole point of the INAT...whether you agree with the ruling or not at least you know ahead of time what the ruling is going to be should a judge be called. I know for a fact at the last Adepticon we saw a couple of situations that were consistently being played differently to how we had them ruled in the INAT, but the judges were under specific orders not to intervene in people's games unless asked (which I think is typical for most tournaments). After the event was over and we were doing the next INAT update we immediately said 'hey we need to change that ruling because I think most people are definitely playing it differently then we've ruled it.' And we did! And that's the whole point...we do our best to make something that matches how most people play, but that's a tricky thing to aim for, because in some cases the split of how people play is nearly 50/50 and that means half the players are going to always think you're 'wrong' no matter which way you rule.


But anyway...sorry to get the thread off track. Yeah, I still believe that anyone who is going to play in the ETC should have no problem handling playing with the INAT because you're already going to have to deal with playing with some wacky rules, so you better be able to adapt to whatever is thrown at you.

Yeah, our local group started playing with ETC "clarrifications" for the run up, and it does make for an interesting experience.
It's well worth having a read of their rulings ahead of time, some of them are quite out of left field (from my perspective, anyhow).

I guess I could have read the rules wrong for the ETC but as I understand them. The captain of the ETC team for each country remains the captain until he or she steps down. How the team is decided is in the hands of the captain. So the US captain could decide to have a system in place that allows competition to form a team or just put together the best possible people that he knows has the will and money to travel to Europe. Personally knowing how most gamers are(and referring to an original assessment by Blackmoor in a much earlier post) I would lean toward the later and safe myself the agony of watching wishy washy gamers drop out.

Europe- uses inches for the game. UK has always used inches
Asia - uses inches also although Japan has been known to use their own measurements at time.

sabote wrote:I guess I could have read the rules wrong for the ETC but as I understand them. The captain of the ETC team for each country remains the captain until he or she steps down. How the team is decided is in the hands of the captain. So the US captain could decide to have a system in place that allows competition to form a team or just put together the best possible people that he knows has the will and money to travel to Europe. Personally knowing how most gamers are(and referring to an original assessment by Blackmoor in a much earlier post) I would lean toward the later and safe myself the agony of watching wishy washy gamers drop out.

Yup, Ben makes the call for next years team.

I expect there to be some turnover though with a few people, so we well see how that goes, but the most important thing is to have a dependable core and not have some flakes on the team.

And Hulksmash, you where wondering why the UK gets 4 teams and we get 1, where there is a lot of reasons for it but one of them is that it costs $150 to fly from the UK to Germany, and $1500 from the US.

The regional qualifier will not work because you really need to depend on at least 6 people. A lot of things happen in a year from marriage, to babies, to new relationships to financial hardships etc. If you ever tried to get a team to fly in for the Adepticon team tournament you will see how hard it is to get 4 people to commit to something like that. Most people will not drive across town for an RTT and you think there is a large pool of people who want to spend $2500 to play in Europe?

There something to be said for experience for this type of thing. In the US I relate it to the AdeptiCon team tournament. You ever have attended the team tournament you understand. The first year you go it can be too much for some people. Except for the early years I would be very surprised if a team won it the first time out.

I think Ben has already proved he can pull together a good team for this event.

and a good time was had by all



The English language nations. And the Scots.

Knowing these guys from the past several years of AdeptiCon. I'm glad to see they did well and confirmed what I already knew we got some damn fine players that can play this game with anyone.

The best players are those that are adaptable and can excel under any format. In large format events, you can really only put yourself in a position to win. It appears the US ETC team had victory within reach. Congrats boys, I'm proud of you. Might make a note of this comment as I don't pay them very often Sparky! Those of you involved with AdeptiCon, soke it up. You got 48 hours to enjoy it and then the hard work starts up again. ..

torgoch wrote:

The English language nations. And the Scots.

Wait a sec - is that an actual girl in the picture? I call Shenanigans!!

Awww, a big bunch of happy sweaty nerds.

Da Boss wrote:Awww, a happy bunch of big sweaty nerds.

FYP

JohnHwangDD wrote:

torgoch wrote:

The English language nations. And the Scots.

Wait a sec - is that an actual girl in the picture? I call Shenanigans!!

That might be a girl behind the girl too. And a girl behind that one. Hard to tell....

Thank you for the kind words everyone, our boys did really well. We had a ton of things stacked against us in this our first ever experience at the ETC. A complicated and detailed tournament format, vastly different rules interpretations, jet lag, and no knowledge of how other countries went about their strategy. Despite all these things, we got within one dice roll of the medals.

I'm very proud of my team. This weekend we learned we are just as good as any other players in the world, hopefully, we convinced our European friends of that as well. Or maybe hopefully not, perpetuating the idea that we are clueless worked pretty well for us this year .

There will definitely be an American team next year. Better watch out world, our range finding shot hit pretty damn close, and now that we have a clue what it is like to play in the ETC, we've got our sights set on gold in Switzerland.

I know there are countless US players who want to be on the team. I'll work out how qualifiers for next year will work in a few months.

Lastly, I'm sure we will get lots of battle reports and accounts of the tournament on the internet through one site or another.

I was wondering about jet lag.

Whenever I go the the east coast (Or even BolsCon) I am awake in the middle of the night, and am zombie after a few days of less than 4 hours of sleep. This is one of the reasons why I think that I get bad sportsmanship scores in the east coast GTs and good sportsmanship scores in west coast GTs.

As far as the girl in the picture goes, that is Alicia, Ben's wife. Every team can have one additional member for support/logistics and she was it for team USA.

And in the picture Wyatt is holding a beer...why does that not surprise me?

As a member of team England, I'd just like to thank the Americans and congratulate them again on a superb result for their first ETC.

You guys were awesome and the event as a whole was definately enriched by your presence!

We really wanted to face you guys in the main event, but alas it wasn't to be, however I had an awesome game vs Shaun in the side event nid on nid style-definately my favourite, he was a gent and I'm glad it ended in a draw.

Hope to see you guys again in Switzerland.

I'm really hoping for battle reports from this.

So wonder who's going to be the first site to bring us some in-depth coverage of this?

Dakka?

Blood of Kittens?

BOLS?


YTTH????? (nah!)

Bols will considering I was on the team

Not bad, USA, not bad.

We always play for the Gold, but for our first time out, 5th isn't anything to be ashamed of.

And as for all the big talkers and back seat generals saying this and that: who cares. If they think they can do it better, go and prove it next year.

@Hulk

Team USA part deux, More feth Yeah!

If I can swing it I'll go next year. Why not? I have not been back to Europe since 2004, I'd love to get back over.

Team USA needs some west coast representation to be team America!

By the way, if you want to play for the US of A next year, I would recommend playing at this tournament:

http://daboyzgt.wordpress.com/da-boyz-gt/

Most of the ETC guys will be there, and it will be a good chance for you to rub elbows with them, and to make a name for yourself by doing well at the tournament.

I'd be down to hit up the team. As soon as they figure out how they are picking it for next year. Also got a line into the Canadians who look to be actually building a team as well since 3-4 players can be from a different country. I'll see "Oh Canada"

Unfortunately Blackmoor Nova ate my cross country plane ticket. 2 times in 3 months is a bit to much flying for playing I'd love to see a way that we could get some west coast representers. But with the rules being what they are (1 country, captain is in charge till he steps down) we'll have to wait to see how they put it together for next year.

Congrats to the US, and shame Wales didnt make it higher - I know 4 of the players and theyre all darn good

Impressive amount of commitment to fly across an ocean to play with toy soldiers. I'd get those flights to Switzerland booked soon, and byob unless you like Swiss prices

Blackmoor wrote:Team USA needs some west coast representation to be team America!

By the way, if you want to play for the US of A next year, I would recommend playing at this tournament:

http://daboyzgt.wordpress.com/da-boyz-gt/

Most of the ETC guys will be there, and it will be a good chance for you to rub elbows with them, and to make a name for yourself by doing well at the tournament.

I heard this is a great event

Almost a week and no coverage by the attendee's!

Most of them went traveling afterwards from what i understand

They are trickling back in to Stateside but those that played are not big into writing batreps.

The one exception is Darkwynn so I would keep my eye out over on BoLS if you want to know what went down.

Here is a nice review of the US teams performance by the captain of the German national team (in English ):

http://www.40kings.de/?p=1846

I think it summarises well the impressions many Europeans got of the US team, i.e. good players, more or less strange lists that actually worked better than anticipated but were still a handicap and overall great guys to talk to and hang out with.

Very nice article. Way to make a good impression! Now it won't sting so bad when Team USA steamrolls everyone next year!

I'll write up a summary of the tournament from my perspective with descriptions of my own games sometime this week.

Awesome!