It's hard to tell from here if that's the base that was shown in the previous thread by MadNes, but it doesn't really look like it... no sign of the 'tortured souls' as far as I can make out of the blur.
That is indeed the big base we've seen I'm pretty sure. You can see a rough triangle of red/black with the point ending at a white/blue colored thing where the dead angle was.
The scythe seems a little over long, but otherwise it looks like it would make a cool Nurgle Daemon.
I love the scale comparison shot! Can't say I'm much for the model. To be quite honest, I think the vacuformed base shot released ahead of time may have given me a predisposition for not liking this model. Maybe it just tries to do too much, but I particularly don't like the face either.
I love it!!! It looks like one of those eye-twisting sort of things that you see in a video game and just assume that there's no way an actual model could be made of it. Even seeing the picture of it has me looking around it for elements that I can't quite name that are missing and are conspicuous by their absence even though I don't know exactly what I'm looking for.
Well, it's really all about what it actually is. If this were a model of some sort, I'd be pretty underwhelmed. As a toy that you can pick up at Kay-Bee, sure ok. I can almost feel the vinyl squeezing in my hands, like some kind of dogtoy.
And that is the thing. I actually like some of the design cues on it. But once again, execution has executed this model for me.
It suffers from trying to do too much weird in too many different ways and ends up not doing any of them very well. If this was just a giant monster with a reaper that would be cool. If this was just a giant with a soul prison in its chest I'd think it was awesome. If it was just some weird freaky thing with horns growing out of its eyes I'd think it was something truly nightmarish (though I don't like the way the pink-head's neck just kind of goes down and gets cut off while the real neck goes backwards. It looks kinda like they tried to that pink neck into the top of a mouth, which would look really cool if the bottom of the mouth wasn't just a hole.) I'll give kudos on the hooves and carapace though.
I kind of feel like Ex Illis should be congratulated for doing something different. I mean, everybody and their brother has a miniature for some giant, hulking horned winged demon a la the Bloodthirster. So it's nice to see them come along with a new idea. I don't think their new idea works particularly well... it's just too many unrelated weird things tacked onto a very conventional demon body (boy, isn't that an odd thing to say!) with very little blending of the strange concepts together. For a starting company I could forgive the faults of this model and if it's priced right (and if we don't get 6 pages of various Ex Illis employees and fans trying to tell us we are wrong for not loving this model), but I hope in the next attempt at a big beasty the sculptor spends a bit more time trying to build a coherent sense of weirdness, rather than weird bits and bobs in isolation.
I think the head is really where it falls apart. As conversion fodder I can see this easily working with a dremel and a new head though. Whats the projected price?
It's not the horns growing out of the eyes, or the weird face on random obtrusions that bother me. It actually looks like it could have come out of Bayonetta and follows a similar design philosophy. What's getting me is the ear sitting on it's clavicle. For some reason, that is really bothering the hell out of me.
I wonder if that paint job is representative of the mass-produced "for sale" version?
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a conversion piece, I'd say it definitely has potential. I've bought cheaper and lower quality plastic (if that is indeed representative of quality) for that purpose (ork trucks and tanks, mostly).
Well, seeing it in that red paint job actually made it look quite a bit better. Not digging the angels at all, rfemind me of the plastic toys you can get out of A.C. Moore for a buck.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not diggin the throat-mouth, either. But actually, I LIKE the clavicle ear.
I like the fact that this seems to be a kit you can build (or Modify) and thus you have a choice how he looks. I may not be a Ex Illis player, but that looks like a good Evil Big Meanie for a RPG or .. other game...
I agree that the red one does look better. I think it's how they painted the neck of that face the the same as the deamons skin so it blends in and just leaves the face itself. The neck is what really throws if off in the other ones.
BrookM wrote:It's not really transport friendly now is it?
I also find the head rather unappealing.
They have stated that the scythe is built so you can easily make it to be removable, should decide to do so in order to move him around easily. The game designer told me that the blue one was built so the head is removable (and maybe switchable, he didn't want to say more, maybe built his own ?) so that nothing bad would happen to the small parts. He said that his own (the red one) didn't require much special shipment care either.
Not really a fan of the sculpt, especially the head. If the kit is cheap it may be worth the investment for chaosy bits.
I also think that this new company could do a better job of getting painters to make their models look more appealing. Beyond the god-awful head on this model, the paint job looks very toyish.
Yeah...it's too amorphic. All the anatomical cues that people home in on are wrong. I know they were aiming for a "weird" vibe by doing this, but I think it just came across as muddied. No real purpose or coherency. I can't see myself using it as anything other than a base for conversions (ones that include chopping off the whole head(?) and probably green-stuffing that damn ear-thing. The soul-cage is nice, as is the humongous scythe. I know a buddy with a Deathguard army and I'm sure I could convince him that he wants a daemon prince that's almost the size of a bloody titan.
Actually...I want a titan-sized daemon prince. Question is, how do I make a tech-daemon that large?
If I were a Nurgle player, I would totally buy this thing, GS the tits out of it, and use it as a Great Unclean One or Greater Daemon. out of the box, it's not really anything special. But it's a terrific base for some creative sculpting work.
After seeing the red one, I've realized that the ''face'' with the horns in place of the eyes is actually the nose, and the eyes were practically on the torso, and not to mention the neck and downward a little is a mouth, so it's one 'effed up face overall.. Tzeentch comes to mind.
I think the big demon is interesting, but the detail is really, really flat. As in children's toy flat. It is a shame too, as it really had potential. Like the base; it is a big disappointment.
Though the angels on the other hand look pretty neat. I love the poses they have going and the armour designs are solid.
A Black Ram wrote:Anyone else see the stormtrooper cosplays in the background of the side shot?
Yes they are part of a new line of 1:1 scale miniatures being released by Wizards of the Coast after reacquiring the Star Wars license from Lucas. They are pretty nice but unfortunately they are prepainted and somewhat expensive (even though they are still cheaper than GW miniatures at this point)
terribletrygon wrote:I think the big demon is interesting, but the detail is really, really flat. As in children's toy flat. It is a shame too, as it really had potential. Like the base; it is a big disappointment.
The lack of exaggerated detail isn't so much of a problem... up against the human-sized models, it helps keep him in scale.
The bigger problem is that he looks to have been sculpted in pieces, with no real effort made to match up the detail at the joints.
terribletrygon wrote:I think the big demon is interesting, but the detail is really, really flat. As in children's toy flat. It is a shame too, as it really had potential. Like the base; it is a big disappointment.
The lack of exaggerated detail isn't so much of a problem... up against the human-sized models, it helps keep him in scale.
The bigger problem is that he looks to have been sculpted in pieces, with no real effort made to match up the detail at the joints.
According to the assembly instructions found on their site, most models require green stuff for the joint lines.
I'm not talking about filling in gaps. I'm talking about the detail not matching up. If you look at his shoulders and hip joints, there's a noticeable joint line with completely different detail on either side of it.
Is that the differences in skin texture? I noticed that, and thought it was a bit of a shame. I'm delighted to see big plastic kits from other sources than GW, though. Kudos to them for making a go of it, depending on price it could be worth looking at.
I have an inkling it'll be pretty expensive though...
Looking at all the photos again I've really come around even more. Without any modifications it doesn't look so hot but... DAMN is it going to make an amazing base for conversions. It looks like it's 10-12 inches tall FFS.
As much as I like some parts, the only really good part, in all honesty, is the scythe. I love that scythe. Everything else is overall, meh. It doesn't help that the thread on the base left me with a bad taste in the mouth over Ex Illis.
I think it looks impressive, if the price is right I may pick on up just to build it. I don't think the lighter paint scheme does it any justice, that sort of thing makes most models look bad. E.g. Horrors of Tzeentch, and Minotaurs.
JSK-Fox wrote:As much as I like some parts, the only really good part, in all honesty, is the scythe. I love that scythe. Everything else is overall, meh. It doesn't help that the thread on the base left me with a bad taste in the mouth over Ex Illis.
Ditto. I'm sorta meh on the models, too. This one looks awful with the blue paintjob. The red one version is significantly better. Overall the design is missing something. Whatever I think of the models, that other thread turned me off completely. I don't care for shills.
It looked a lot more awesome when I saw it at a distance and thought it had an ordinary (if demonic) head. Now that I see close-ups, hey another major miss on this front. Kudos to anyone who converts the crap out it though. Wonder how much it's gonna go for.
This thing actually comes as a multi-part model on a hard-plastic sprue. In spite of knowing Ex Illis was usually plastic, I had the assumption that this thing would be resin/metal. It has some great conversion potential as even a Great Unclean One provided the price is right. How much would it cost for a monster whose scythe blade alone is three times the height of a human?
Seeing the normal boxed prices of Ex Illis I'd imagine this kit to be quite pricey... I have mixed feelings about the sculpt itself... it's something that I wouldnt buy but wouldnt throw away...
Hack that scythe apart and I'd put it on a Bloodthirster. I'd throw the majority of the rest of it away. It just looks to stupidly unreal to be appealing, and the hair on the hooves makes me want to kill something.
Admittedly, a gracious price compared to something of comperable size from FW. Literally a fraction. But............man, I just don't see it.
I would have to hack off the entire maw/head and find something to put in place. Prolly end up re-sculpting so much just to get it to be something I could put on the table top and not snigger at.
Too much time and money to go into it to bother. Yeah, even at that price, it seems like too much money. Guess that shows my value of the model from what I have seen to be just that low.
Pity, too. It was really starting to look a lot better in that red paint job. But there is just still way too much that needs to go on to make it worth anything game wise.
As others have already noted, some elements on it are good (I like the scythe's look, and I like the armor) but the "face" is awful and so is the belly.
The "face" is horrible, no focal point to the model, and not "coherent" with itself or the rest of the model.
There's no coiled dynamic tension in the body to match the arms. It's a poor mix of static and active.
And it appears the sculptors have no idea how a scythe / warscythe looks (or works). (GW is guilty here, too!)
The belly sewer gate is just silly. The monster is a hollow shell?
Not impressed, but as others note, possible basis for (heavy) conversion.
While I recognize that all of the complaints here boil down to "I don't like it, because I don't", the bolded one seems a particularly odd complaint. The notion of diabolic beings having the souls of the damned/the whole of the damned be within them is scarcely novel, and it's clearly what they are going for here. It's a long standing, theologically poignant idea, so, yes, it would appear that "The monster is a hollow shell", that would, in fact, be the point.
Seriously, it's very clear that this model is a reference to a tradition that's centuries old (it could have walked straight out of Bosch's The Garden of Earthly Delights, which was painted in the fifteenth century). It's like having someone present a Prius to a crowd, and hearing people complain that it won't win any speed records. Is it a legitimate observation? Sure, but it missed the point of the endeavor.
By the by, lest there be any confusion, I don't like this model all that much, and I don't like it, because I don't like it.
As a less serious note: the lack of a second handle means "the sculptors have no idea how a scythe / warscythe looks (or works)"? If the two models are to anything like scale, then the scythe must be like 30+ feet long. The lack of a second handle seems scarcely the article that would draw ire. The three-fingered, face-nosed deamon the size of a brownstone would, one would suspect, sell the notion that this is operating according to something other then the rules of the medieval 4H club.
JohnHwangDD wrote:And it appears the sculptors have no idea how a scythe / warscythe looks (or works). (GW is guilty here, too!)
The belly sewer gate is just silly. The monster is a hollow shell?
The notion of diabolic beings having the souls of the damned/the whole of the damned be within them is scarcely novel, and it's clearly what they are going for here. It's a long standing, theologically poignant idea, so, yes, it would appear that "The monster is a hollow shell", that would, in fact, be the point.
As a less serious note: the lack of a second handle means "the sculptors have no idea how a scythe / warscythe looks (or works)"?
The three-fingered, face-nosed deamon the size of a brownstone would, one would suspect, sell the notion that this is operating according to something other then the rules of the medieval 4H club.
Having the Daemon be literally as hollow as the plastic it's made from is patently ridiculous, and as amateurishly handled as humanly imaginable. The various GW conversions with faces / hands literally coming out of the skin / body of the Daemon are far more effective at driving the point home, instead of using a sewer grate / door
I've seen Bosch, and this no Bosch. Bringing it up is a cop-out.
Noting it's not real is likewise a cop-out. We *know* it's not real, but clumsily-executed details like the belly and scythe make the model more cartoon and parody than anything else.
Buzzsaw: You make some good points about daemonic monsters having the souls of the damned within them (there is even some of this worked into 40k, albeit reversed in that the daemons are within something else), however those references are not necc. as clear to Joe Wargamer as they may be to you. Not all of us have the background to make such connections. Not all of us would be even remotely interested in obtaining that background. Point being, that if this was indeed the point of the creature, maybe it was a bit oblique to the general background of it's intended audience for said audience to appreciate it? There's missing the point; and then there is missing your intended audience.
mikhaila wrote:Not liking it. Ugly model, and not Ugly in a cool way. The individual elements don't work together well.
This got me thinking...
Is that a bad thing, it being ugly, but "not Ugly in a cool way"? I hadn't really thought about it, but from an artistic point of view, must things always be "cool"?
Like I referenced above, to me, the model has a quality very reminiscent of Hieronymus Bosch; but I don't think I would call any of his works "cool", and most I would call ugly. That's scarcely an indictment of him.
Now, of course, from a commercial standpoint, it may be that coolness is an inherently desired quality for retail sales, but that's secondary to what we're talking about here. But is there a market for a model of something that ought to be ugly by rights, and actually is ugly?
Suppose you collect firearms; if we look at an AK-47, most would agree it's ugly. But is it cool too? And if it isn't, does that impact on whatever artistic value it has?
I apologize, this is wandering off topic. It just got me thinking.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Buzzsaw wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:And it appears the sculptors have no idea how a scythe / warscythe looks (or works). (GW is guilty here, too!)
The belly sewer gate is just silly. The monster is a hollow shell?
The notion of diabolic beings having the souls of the damned/the whole of the damned be within them is scarcely novel, and it's clearly what they are going for here. It's a long standing, theologically poignant idea, so, yes, it would appear that "The monster is a hollow shell", that would, in fact, be the point.
As a less serious note: the lack of a second handle means "the sculptors have no idea how a scythe / warscythe looks (or works)"?
The three-fingered, face-nosed deamon the size of a brownstone would, one would suspect, sell the notion that this is operating according to something other then the rules of the medieval 4H club.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Having the Daemon be literally as hollow as the plastic it's made from is patently ridiculous,
Why?
JohnHwangDD wrote:and as amateurishly handled as humanly imaginable.
How?
JohnHwangDD wrote:The various GW conversions with faces / hands literally coming out of the skin / body of the Daemon are far more effective at driving the point home, instead of using a sewer grate / door
In what way?
JohnHwangDD wrote:I've seen Bosch, and this no Bosch. Bringing it up is a cop-out.
First, I pointed out that this was "a long standing, theologically poignant idea" and pointed to Bosch as an exemplar of that ideal. That said, how is it a "cop-out" to bring up what, at first glance, certainly seems to be the motif they are referencing? Are you denying that that could be what they are going for? Like I said, you seem to be complaining about the Prius' top speed...
This reaction is frankly far more interesting to me then the actual model, almost as if it's imperative that the model be seen as not only ugly, but wrong. "patently ridiculous", "as amateurishly handled as humanly imaginable", "more cartoon and parody "...
Like I said, the objections are all boiling down to "I don't like it because I don't like it", but this is impressive.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Noting it's not real is likewise a cop-out. We *know* it's not real, but clumsily-executed details like the belly and scythe make the model more cartoon and parody than anything else.
grizgrin wrote:Buzzsaw: You make some good points about daemonic monsters having the souls of the damned within them (there is even some of this worked into 40k, albeit reversed in that the daemons are within something else), however those references are not necc. as clear to Joe Wargamer as they may be to you. Not all of us have the background to make such connections. Not all of us would be even remotely interested in obtaining that background. Point being, that if this was indeed the point of the creature, maybe it was a bit oblique to the general background of it's intended audience for said audience to appreciate it? There's missing the point; and then there is missing your intended audience.
lol@"medieval 4H club", good shooting sir!
What's fascinating here, is that griz is failing the model for precisely the opposite of one of the failing noted above: seriously, do a google image search of scythes, and the popular conception is in agreement with the model. If, on the other hand, one is obsessed with medieval farm implements, the lack of a second handle at the end of the main handle drives one to distraction.
Perhaps this model should be called Ceasar, for it seems to be all things to all men?
Nah, I fail the model in greatest part due to that damned (pun intended) head and the feth ton of work I would have to do to be able to fix it to my tastes. The quote you have me on right there is just musings on your observations.
Buzzsaw wrote:Is that a bad thing, it being ugly, but "not Ugly in a cool way"? I hadn't really thought about it, but from an artistic point of view, must things always be "cool"?
Suppose you collect firearms; if we look at an AK-47, most would agree it's ugly. But is it cool too? And if it isn't, does that impact on whatever artistic value it has?
I would not agree. But even if you do, the AK-47 is ugly because it is utilitarian, like the ISO Standard Human Spaceship, which has its own aesthetic appeal. This has been made ugly by making it less utilitarian, which just makes it .
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Its pointless to debate each others tastes, especially with people who have stated they would bash anything ex-illis at every chance they get.
The model seemed to be very well received at the con. So much so, that they began taking pre-orders, even though it was initially not part of the plan. Maybe something gets lost in the photo vs seeing it in person?
Done better with smaller miniatures by GW (Forgeworld demons), Rackham (Flesh Golem, Baal) of Helldorado (Flayed Ones).
And they score over this model for several reasons:
Coherence: the thing is many parts but not a whole, while other minis tell a story this one looks like a toy shop/bits box accident.
Execution: as others mentioned the execution is lackluster with the texture not fitting at the seems or the belly-cage not being a cave in the miniature but the whole hollow monster.
Scaling: It looks like a 3-up but not like a miniature that's actually supposed to be sold in this size. What turns out right on a 3-up when scaled down just looks wrong on this one.
All in all a nice idea, but it really lacks in execution.
MadNes wrote:Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Its pointless to debate each others tastes, especially with people who have stated they would bash anything ex-illis at every chance they get.
The model seemed to be very well received at the con. So much so, that they began taking pre-orders, even though it was initially not part of the plan. Maybe something gets lost in the photo vs seeing it in person?
Pintless to debate tastes? I dont think so. I think that an open-minded consideration of someone elses viewpoints, even in something as subjective as taste, can lead at least to exposure to ideas and thoughts you might not necc. have come up with on your own. That in of itself makes it a worthwhile endeavor. Now ARGUING tastes; yeah there's an exercise in futility.
I think that model would be great a a tzneetch critter - with some greenstuff blending and a wild but coherent color scheme. The only thing that would really give me trouble would be the mouth and ear - I would probably get rid of those to emphasize the small face with horn eyes.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:Coherence: the thing is many parts but not a whole, while other minis tell a story this one looks like a toy shop/bits box accident.
I sincerely laughed my off. That was a good way of saying it, and I wholeheartedly agree.
You know, it kinda looks like the cookie monster went through the warp for 25 years and got out by a warp portal into the Ex Illis range.
Noisy_Marine wrote:I rather like the plastic demon prince. What's wrong with it?
Listen, I'm not crazy about the Ex Illis demon, but I'm not going to agree that the GWS Demon prince exactly trumps it. Going with the version that has an image posted (I rather like the red, 40k themed one) - the face sculpt is terrible, the horns look dumb pointing up like that, it is of very limited posability, it has no sense of menace or dynamism, I don't really like how the wing-arms look, and the chest-carved chaos star? Dubious.
I've considered buying the model because I do so like the red one, though. The alternate builds are terrible, imo.
mikhaila wrote:
Not liking it. Ugly model, and not Ugly in a cool way. The individual elements don't work together well.
This got me thinking...
Is that a bad thing, it being ugly, but "not Ugly in a cool way"? I hadn't really thought about it, but from an artistic point of view, must things always be "cool"?
Like I referenced above, to me, the model has a quality very reminiscent of Hieronymus Bosch; but I don't think I would call any of his works "cool", and most I would call ugly. That's scarcely an indictment of him.
Now, of course, from a commercial standpoint, it may be that coolness is an inherently desired quality for retail sales, but that's secondary to what we're talking about here. But is there a market for a model of something that ought to be ugly by rights, and actually is ugly?
Suppose you collect firearms; if we look at an AK-47, most would agree it's ugly. But is it cool too? And if it isn't, does that impact on whatever artistic value it has?
I apologize, this is wandering off topic. It just got me thinking.
You miss the point, or I made it badly. Some things, especially demons and monsters in wargaming, can be quite ugly, yet appeal in some way that makes the ugliness an inherent part of the model, and taking away the ugliness ruins it. Orks in 40k are that way. A 10 year olds ugly conversion of a rhino is not fun to look at. A ramshackle ork truck with battle damage might be. Both look wrong, and are ugly vehicles, yet one has an appeal to it.
The FW bloodthirster is Ugly. Yet it has a powerful look, good poise, looks dangerous and menacing. It comes across as 'cool'. Something the FW Tzeench demon does not.
This model is just ugly to look at. I don't like it. Don't want to paint it or put it together. If I was given the kit, I'd give it away, or have to cut 1/3 of it off to want to use it. Ugly with no redeeming qualities. The scythe is cool, but I've seen that done on a couple of other big fat demons already.
Despite its crazy sewer gate prison, the Ex Illis miniature also has more realistic muscle structure. People don't walk around with every single muscle in their body flexed 24/7. I think if you stuck a new head on it would be a perfectly good model to use in Warhammer.
Prophecy07 wrote:Eh. The fur comes out of nowhere on that arm. And there's a pretty big join gap there. Nothing a little greenstuff wouldn't fix though.
Not sure which fur / arm pic you are referring to. I don't see any arms with fur on them
The joins need a bit of work. The red and green ones which where at the booth belong to the game designer. He brought them from his personal collection. the Pro-painted blue one was in a glass display case, so I couldn't get good pics on my iphone
Hopefully they didn't gloss over those details for that fig.
JSK-Fox wrote:Apparently demons grow hair where it shouldnt grow, and have souls that form as heads protruding out its skin. Why are they always heads?
because if it were feet, that would just be toooo wierd.
whether you like it or not, bastion nailed it. They made the model match their concept art really well.
for better or worse, whatever your opinion may be.
Actually, I rather like the concept art. Why they made the skull/upper jaw protrude horizontally instead of up like that pic is beyond me. Daemons with massive overbites are not scary.
JSK-Fox wrote:Matching concept art =/= looks awesome.
Agreed
If you don't like either well that's just a matter of preference. My point is bastion imo created exactly what they meant to. That's pretty cool. How many times have you seen the art not match the model and you feel a bit cheated.
Buzzsaw wrote: While I recognize that all of the complaints here boil down to "I don't like it, because I don't",
I've disagreed a fair share of my times with JHDD, but I don't think you're giving him enough credit. He did give valid reasons for disliking that model. You may not agree with those reasons, but they are valid.
Buzzsaw wrote:the bolded one seems a particularly odd complaint. The notion of diabolic beings having the souls of the damned/the whole of the damned be within them is scarcely novel, and it's clearly what they are going for here. It's a long standing, theologically poignant idea, so, yes, it would appear that "The monster is a hollow shell", that would, in fact, be the point.
Seriously, it's very clear that this model is a reference to a tradition that's centuries old (it could have walked straight out of Bosch's The Garden of Earthly Delights, which was painted in the fifteenth century).
I consider myself something of a dilettante when it comes to religion, and while I don't exactly have the best credentials when it comes to Catholic lore, I've never heard of a demon with a prison in its chest. The closest I've ever come is to depictions of the mouth of Hell as a dragon's mouth in artwork. But I've never seen that metaphor carried on down to the stomach. However, that's beside the point. The problem with the soul prison isn't that it doesn't have enough basis in real-world religion, but just that's it's executed very badly. It appears to be just a single potral on the stomach, with no integration with the rest of the model. There's a seed of a really good idea there, but this model doesn't attempt to exploit it nearly enough. Like I said before, a demonic prison should be the entire thematic basis for a single model - by mixing the prison metaphor up with a bunch of other weird stuff on the model, the sculptor takes the energy out of what could be a very powerful image.
And on another point, I find it very odd that this thing keeps getting linked to Bosch. I like Bosch's work. This fails to elicit any of wonderful weirdness of Bosch's world. Personally, I think it looks nothing like any of Bosch's creatures. Bosch's demons dance in the uncanny valley, trying to look just enough like something we recognize while being wrong in a very obvious way. Like a perfectly ordinary-looking man who happens to have a sparrow's head for no discernable reason. Or a pink frog with fangs in a minister's hat and robes reading music off of a tortured soul's butt. These things are weird and potentially frightening because they carry a hint of humanity but are very clearly an aberration against nature. This demon model has none of that. It's too much weird in too many different ways and not enough human to trigger the revulsion of something that just shouldn't be. The head with horns for eyes could possibly approach that feeling if that motif was carried throughout the rest of the model, but it's not. Like I said, it's trying to do too much at once.
Personally, I see much more H.R. Giger influence here than Bosch.
As I said before, I think Ex Illis should be praised for attempting something original in an industry where ripping off each others' motifs is endemic. And this model is very original. So good on them. But that praise should not be taken to mean that all criticism of this model is invalid. There are some very good reasons to dislike this model. Even if you personally like it, that doesn't mean those reasons are invalid. If nothing else, this round of criticism could be a lesson learned by the sculptors, and the next time around they could be better able to give us something that truly wows us.
Lord-Ironfist UNA wrote:Despite its crazy sewer gate prison, the Ex Illis miniature also has more realistic muscle structure. People don't walk around with every single muscle in their body flexed 24/7.
Speak for youself, pal. I type extreme, I walk extreme, and I even sleep extreme.
The closest I've ever come is to depictions of the mouth of Hell as a dragon's mouth in artwork. But I've never seen that metaphor carried on down to the stomach.
Actually there is one being in one of Boschs pictures that has a prison with inmates in his body, but this being is a humanoid cut in half ond his whole torso serving as the shell of the prison.
Concept art Always looks better. Well any good concept art looks better.
Sorry, you are wrong. Rackham alone already managed to go beyond already good concept art and others do it too from time to time.
Prophecy07 wrote:Eh. The fur comes out of nowhere on that arm. And there's a pretty big join gap there. Nothing a little greenstuff wouldn't fix though.
I think it's actually a garter belt we are seeing with some kind of decorative material hanging off it. Now a huge monster with a garter belt fetish IS something to be afraid of.
while i don't really care much for the big demon, i can picture in my mind the start of a nurgle conversion using it, that gut-prison could spill forth a lot of nurglings
yeah, I don't like the face(/lack of), and agree that some of the section joins are off.
But we are mostly looking at it as conversion fodder for 40k, and I think that if the price is right I'll buy it. I really want a huge Nurgly beast that looks like this concept art for 'lord of the pit', MTG card.
I had a pop at this with my GD of nurgle.. but ihe wasn't big enough...
this guy is the right size and with a bit of work should work a treat... ...if the price is right.
Actually, I’m far more interested in how they interpreted the head bad guy himself, aka Lucifer. I don’t see any close up pics of that model. From the blurry image, he seems to have this disgraced, morose pose but I can’t really tell.
voidfiend wrote:
The big demon does look like a bits hack job.
Actually, I’m far more interested in how they interpreted the head bad guy himself, aka Lucifer. I don’t see any close up pics of that model. From the blurry image, he seems to have this disgraced, morose pose but I can’t really tell.
Fyi - according to the fluff Lucifer is not the head bad guy, Satan is. Lucifer and Satan are different people in Ex-illis.
Here is the bio in case anyone is interested.
Edit forgot the link
Please note: the wiki is not completed and still being built. Cut my boys some slack with your grammer, spelling and punctuation commentary.
I think if I were investing a lot of money into a business and wanted to be taken seriously, spelling, grammar, and punctuation on my web site would be something I paid close attention to.
Then again it doesn't look like much attention was paid to this big mess of a demon either.
voidfiend wrote:
The big demon does look like a bits hack job.
Actually, I’m far more interested in how they interpreted the head bad guy himself, aka Lucifer. I don’t see any close up pics of that model. From the blurry image, he seems to have this disgraced, morose pose but I can’t really tell.
Fyi - according to the fluff Lucifer is not the head bad guy, Satan is. Lucifer and Satan are different people in Ex-illis.
Here is the bio in case anyone is interested.
Edit forgot the link
Please note: the wiki is not completed and still being built. Cut my boys some slack with your grammer, spelling and punctuation commentary.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Well... I ordered some of their Priests.
I hope they fit with 40K models...
A few techy bits on them and they should fit in fine. I was looking at an older metal mini recently of an astropath and was surprised at how in proportion it was including realistically sized hands. Smaller and thinner is needed for humans in 40K and these guys should blend right in.
I am still waiting for an explanation why I should play a game that does most of the playing on the computer and keeps me only pushing around minis on the tabletop instead of completely playing on the PC....
Duncan_Idaho wrote:I am still waiting for an explanation why I should play a game that does most of the playing on the computer and keeps me only pushing around minis on the tabletop instead of completely playing on the PC....
Duncan_Idaho wrote:I am still waiting for an explanation why I should play a game that does most of the playing on the computer and keeps me only pushing around minis on the tabletop instead of completely playing on the PC....
For those of you interested, the question is answered in the intro podcast. The podcast features the creative director speaking with various bastion peeps. Its an informative listen.
Enjoy
Automatically Appended Next Post: Cant seem to get the link work'n
Those angel models are great. Hopefully you can build an army of just angels if you want. Does Satan get his own army as well?
I want to like the big demon, but the lack of a face really puts me off the model. The concept art looks much better to me than the actual model itself. I might consider buying it if there were an alternate head with an actual face on it.
Third, I love Lucifer's bio, but I"m not going to playing a game without my trusty tape measure and tub of dice. Especially since I don't own a laptop or a fancy phone.
I say it's more Nurgle than Tzeentch. That it's Plastic doesn't bother me; just makes it simpler to get together, and to work with, should I wish to do a little Conversion. Are the Ex Illis Miniatures shown for Reference the same size as our 28mm Miniatures? I might pick one up for use as a Daemon Prince...
BrookM wrote:Tried the demo and well.. we tossed our little grid map and tokens out straight away after turn one.
Dear devs, build LAN and WWW connection in the software and just sell it as a full blown game instead of "assistance software".
Those are my feelings on the game. Either make it a computer game or a mini's game. Not some weird hybrid that tries to replace dice, tape, and books with a laptop.
Yes, you.can make an all Angel or all Demon army. Currently I'm working on a mercenary army consisting of Angels, Fallen Angels and Demons. This partucular army diesn't really like humans who've persecuted them. fyi - due to the way list building works, fluffy lists are usually the most effective lists in the game.
For those of you who tried the game and didn't like it, AWESOME, at least you gave it a shot. THATS what matters. Every game will not be for everybody.
As for the validity of this game existing in hybrid form... There are plenty of us who like the game as is, that makes the format valid enough. Just not your cup of tea, and that's cool.
MadNes wrote: There are plenty of us who like the game as is, that makes the format valid enough.
I do hope theres plenty of fans because looking from the outside I can see a huge money investment on this game from the developers... artwork, plastic kits, design, game development, software etc... This is by no means pocket change project. I hope they do really well in order to pay all those things.
MadNes wrote: There are plenty of us who like the game as is, that makes the format valid enough.
I do hope theres plenty of fans because looking from the outside I can see a huge money investment on this game from the developers... artwork, plastic kits, design, game development, software etc... This is by no means pocket change project. I hope they do really well in order to pay all those things.
If not, they join a long list of "good idea + flawed execution = Dead Game". And sometimes the failure means they do something different to get it right, if they have the funding. Confrontation is still re-inventing themselves this way and coming back from the dead. In the end, they have the reality of needing enough sales of miniatures to make a profit.
Dunno why, but something about how sharp these guys are has me confident they will succeed. They dkn't say much in internet land, but they are listening. That is evident in how quickly they react to market demands -
Low availabilty - they ink alliance
Ambiguous rules - release the wiki
Inability to proxy / playtest - release trial offer
Complaints of mono pose minis - BAM the Angels
Its that type of response to consumer demand that makes me think they are going to make it. Plus, its a slick game.
But you've also proven yourself to be a huge, overly supportive fan of their product in the past, so that could also be considered a rather biased opinion.
I think that they -could- be successful in the future, but they definately need to improve quality. Their stuff isn't bad, mind you. The ideas and designs are certainly interesting enough. They're just poorly executed is all. The units are very static, angels or no. And there's a big range in consistency of the sculpts. Case in point - the skin textures on this demon that everyone has noticed. That's a big quality gap for a lot of people. Plus, the model just looks so bland to me. No matter how well painted it is. It's a good base for converting, but as a stock mini, it needs work. lots of work
Having the game require a laptop also hurts the 'slickness' of the game. But that's been covered in past threads about the game.
They could succeed, but they've got a ways to go before that's a sure road.
My opinion SUPER biased. I didn't guarantee success, I merely stated my opinion.
Here is some food for thought. I was not BORN an Ex illis fan, or programmed to be such at the release date.
I've evolved into a super fan because the company, the game experience, the modelz (regardless of your tastes or opinion) have been that good for me.
I've been a fan of several game systems in the past and still enjoy several games other than Ex-illis. The difference is, non of those games have been impactfull enough to cause me to "evangelize" the game.
I believe THAT is saying something about the quality of work bastion is producing.
On a side note - I don't know that its possible to be OVERLY supertive of a fledgling endeavor that obviously has the odds stacked against it.
Besides all I'm doing is having a friendly discussion with you fine people. That is a pleasure which takes almost no effort on my part.
MadNes wrote:My opinion SUPER biased. I didn't guarantee success, I merely stated my opinion.
Here is some food for thought. I was not BORN an Ex illis fan, or programmed to be such at the release date.
I've evolved into a super fan because the company, the game experience, the modelz (regardless of your tastes or opinion) have been that good for me.
I've been a fan of several game systems in the past and still enjoy several games other than Ex-illis. The difference is, non of those games have been impactfull enough to cause me to "evangelize" the game.
I believe THAT is saying something about the quality of work bastion is producing.
On a side note - I don't know that its possible to be OVERLY supertive of a fledgling endeavor that obviously has the odds stacked against it.
Besides all I'm doing is having a friendly discussion with you fine people. That is a pleasure which takes almost no effort on my part.
JSK-Fox wrote:How do we know they aren't paying you?
Because I said so. Regardless of the fact that you don't know me from the binary code that lets us communicate, my word counts.
Let me ask you a question, is it so impossible to believe someone could be passionate enough about a game system, that they would defend it tooth and nail against slanderous misrepresentations of the truth?
Is it really that hard to believe someone could want to grow a game system outside of being paid for it?
I'm not saying ex-illis is perfect. If you take the time to poke around the Ex-illis forums, you will find threads where I complain to the game designers about game changes, argue with them about mechanics, plead with them to release mini's I would love to see (like the liche pope). I'm selfish, I promote the game because I enjoy it more than any other miniature wargame i've played, and I'm keen to see the game do well
If thats not good enough for you.....
No guys, Ex-illis is not the perfect war game. but it is the best one I've played.
MadNes wrote:My opinion SUPER biased. I didn't guarantee success, I merely stated my opinion.
Here is some food for thought. I was not BORN an Ex illis fan, or programmed to be such at the release date.
I've evolved into a super fan because the company, the game experience, the modelz (regardless of your tastes or opinion) have been that good for me.
I've been a fan of several game systems in the past and still enjoy several games other than Ex-illis. The difference is, non of those games have been impactfull enough to cause me to "evangelize" the game.
I believe THAT is saying something about the quality of work bastion is producing.
On a side note - I don't know that its possible to be OVERLY supertive of a fledgling endeavor that obviously has the odds stacked against it.
Besides all I'm doing is having a friendly discussion with you fine people. That is a pleasure which takes almost no effort on my part.
MadNes wrote: Let me ask you a question, is it so impossible to believe someone could be passionate enough about a game system, that they would defend it tooth and nail against slanderous misrepresentations of the truth?
This confuses me. How are we slandering the game? Slander implies that we're making offensive false statements about something.
We're all saying that this Demon is a mediocre sculpt. It is. Just looking at it will tell you that. It's better than the eyesores that litter GW's new fantasy edition, mind you (Beastmen, anyone?) but it still needs a lot more work before I'd consider it a quality mini.
We're saying needing a laptop for a game is a bit ridiculous, especially if you don't need one for anything else. If I want to play a game, I shouldn't have to put down an extra $300 for a laptop just to play it. Especially if I don't find it interesting. That's not slanderous, that's a sensible concern.
Photos from the 'tournament', although you only see two guys playing on the one table set up for it at the booth; where was the rest of the tournament held?
Which fanboy are you MadNes? I wasn't at Gen Con so didn't get to check the whole thing out.
"It is hard for me to believe it, but these d-bags have managed to combine every loathsome a-hole d-head practice one can imagine into a single game:
1. licensed minis
2. MMORPG levling
3. Defective By Design DRM-like hooks
4. credit card gaming
5. non-WYSIWYG minis "
Dunno about you, but that looks pretty slanderous to me. It is both insulting and inaccurate in many places. - Point 1
2) Re-read the threads, you'll be hard pressed to find a statement where I've said someone is wrong for not liking the game, or wrong for not liking a sculpt. I've corrected inacurrate statements about the game, offered different viewpoints about the synergies between mechanics and encouraged people not to ASSUME how the game play will work. Especially when trying the game is completely free.
3) I find it curious that the use of a computer is a sticking point for some guy I'm talking to on a forum... I've said it over, if you don't want to use the computer, the game isn't for you. You can't play basketball without a hoop, soccer without a net, Warhammer without rulebooks, Ex-illis without a processing device... thats just the way it is. If its not your cup of tea, cool. BUT - just because its NOT your cup of tea, doesn't mean I won't correct inaccurate or uniformed statements made about the game.
4) you've got a lot of nerve to tell me my game of choice is "the wrong game". I'm going to let that one go, I'm sure you didn't mean to tell me what I can and can't like.
5) Those pictures are of the Championship game. It was held at the booth in the vendor hall on Sunday because we didn't get done with the other rounds until about 1:30 the night before. I'm not in THAT picture because the kid with the glasses (Matt) knocked me out in the semi-finals. (That subject is still a bit painful, let it go)
6) There is a picture of my catapault from the painting contest, I would ask what you guys think, but...
Now if you look at this picture, I'm the guy with the crew cut on the right hand side. I'm hard to see cuz you can only seem me in between those two guys, Will and Jorge, great fellas from Cincy
8) The tournament had about 30 players and was held in the F hall, you know the one where you had to walk past the goblin king on the throne.
MadNes wrote:The tournament had about 30 players and was held in the F hall, you know the one where you had to walk past the goblin king on the throne.
I haven't been to a Gen Con in Indy, I'm still in mourning/protesting since it moved from Milwaukee. Anybody have photos from the rounds in Hall F? I'd like to see how the game sets up in a tournament environment having to have a computer and all; just curious.
MadNes3 wrote: I find it curious that the use of a computer is a sticking point for some guy I'm talking to on a forum... I've said it over, if you don't want to use the computer, the game isn't for you. You can't play basketball without a hoop, soccer without a net, Warhammer without rulebooks, Ex-illis without a processing device... thats just the way it is. If its not your cup of tea, cool. BUT - just because its NOT your cup of tea, doesn't mean I won't correct inaccurate or uniformed statements made about the game.
a more accurate description would be someone inventing a new game that consists of playing basketball minus the ball but with rollerblades or soccer with stilts and no net and wondering why people are resistant. it can be done and some people may like it but it is certainly reasonable and not slanderous for people to say "why the heck would i want to do that?". ex illis is getting rid of staples of wargaming (dice, books), making others optional (minis since you can play without them at all, you just need their number key to virtually activate them), and adding electronic necessities (internet connect, electronic device to run the game).
while i appreciate you correcting the few uninformed statements and assumptions about this game made in the multiple threads about it since you started your webwide ad campaign, you've also confusing opinions and blatantly obvious facts with the former and attempted to correct them with advertising spin. someone calling that giant demon ugly (and not in a good way as mikhalia pointed out) is an opinion and is entirely subjective; it doesn't need correcting although you can disagree with it but that doesn't make it any less valid of an opinion. saying that creature's base is lacking undercut detail and has alot of soft edges while the model itself has details that don't line up from part to part resulting in clearly different looking joints IS accurate; it doesn't need correcting. you've been doing a heck of alot more of the last two than the first yet you're lumping them all into one persecution complex.
your vigorous defense of the game you love has gone beyond correction of inaccuracies and into a wierd web version of the star trek episode where the cardassian officer tries to get picard to admit there are 5 lights instead of the 4 he sees.
.
.
- Size does matter
- The eye reminds me of Final Fantasy Monsters
- pretty gruesome mouth and tongue.
- faces protruding from the skin, nice skin texture and fur
- love the prison stomach 
