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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Where's the batrep?
17349
Post by: SilverMK2
They actually managed to get together in the same room without destroying the earth? 
221
Post by: Frazzled
Can I get batrep without having to go the swaer fest that is that blog?
171
Post by: Lorek
Dash'll probably put one up sometime soon.
17349
Post by: SilverMK2
Can anyone post the final result (use spoiler tags if you want )? I can't access the site above at work and just want to know who won.
5636
Post by: warpcrafter
No pictures, only one list posted, yeah, great batrep. I'm filing this under who cares.
14070
Post by: SagesStone
Table Quarters = Tie
Objectives = Tie
Victory Points (It looks like they mean Kill Points with this one) = Tie
Straight Victory Points = Stelek just barely wins
They shake hand and decide to call it because it's getting late. They tie on on table quarters as the nobs move back to claim their deployment quarter, and the truck boys hunker down and claim theirs, where as the long fang and razorbacks claim their two quarters. So we go to second tie breaker which is objectives, and both have one, and IST is on one objective in their deployment zone, and the truck boys are close enough to claim theirs. So were down to the third tie breaker which is victory points and you have to win by 250 victory points...of which they are also tied (exact points are unknown, but it was very close). So we go to the 4'th tie breaker which is straight victory points and Stelek has it by a hair.
Edit: Screw spoiler tags
26458
Post by: hyv3mynd
Both lists are there, Steleks was in a link.
They drew on Primary and Secondary, Stelek won Teriary. Following the NOVA scoring, this was a win for Stelek as their Primary, Secondary, Tertiary system were used as tie breakers instead of battle points. However, you can see the game was quite close.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Dash also BARELY lost (I mean, lolbarely) the semi-final against Mark Ferek, who went on to lose to Tony Kopach (who beat Stelek in his semi-final game).
Watching Dash play, he makes very few mistakes with his chosen army, and finds ways to stay in it until the end even when he's getting banged on.
Good player, great guy. I can understand maybe why he got banned from NC stores, but if he's with the right other people, he's totally a fantastic person ... haters gon' hate.
963
Post by: Mannahnin
Stelek has clarified that (contrary to early reports) the VP differential was greater than the 200 or 250 which would conventionally be seen as a Draw.
6458
Post by: Bunker
Frazzled wrote:
Can I get batrep without having to go the swaer fest that is that blog?
Yeah, you could have gone to the Open and done one yourself. Beggars can't be choosers, Fraz
Stop being negative just for the sake of being negative, it ceased being cute about a year ago.
8044
Post by: Arctik_Firangi
'Grats Stelek, ya big angry fart!
'Grats DOP, ya big angry fart!
Now that all is said and fair, I think the 'impassable terrain' incident was a pretty poor show. If both players agreed to it being impassable and blocking LOS, then that's exactly what it should have done regardless of what observers had to say once the game had started.
I've seen similar incidents with TOs suddenly declaring rivers as 'impassable' mid-game when the players had agreed on it being Dangerous Terrain and there was no argument between them. Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Frazz, it's written up by a third-party reporter. None of Stelek's usual crap, ya big angry fart. (By the way, people, 'fart' is filtered  )
14070
Post by: SagesStone
Bunker wrote:Frazzled wrote:
Can I get batrep without having to go the swaer fest that is that blog?
Yeah, you could have gone to the Open and done one yourself. Beggars can't be choosers, Fraz
Stop being negative just for the sake of being negative, it stopped being cute about a year ago.
*A faint rumbling sound could be heard in the distance*
On topic: I'm not seeing any swearing in the battle report itself, probably in the comments which I can't be bothered to read
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Ah, the NOVA FAQ clarified that no terrain was impassable at the event, for the sake of fairness across tables.
That said, instead of traveling over top of the impassable terrain, Dash "transposed" his battlewagon into it, which is what caused the confusion ... conventional wisdom was that passable did not turn hills and buildings without interiors into ... you know, holograms. We used the confusion to clarify it for the next day.
Also, Stelek was given shots at it anyway, after the ruling was made .. he didn't just miss them all or have to send them elsewhere. Automatically Appended Next Post: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nova-open-live
For anyone who wants to watch the live matches.
8044
Post by: Arctik_Firangi
I think that the ruling overriding a completely fair agreement between players is bad TOing, only because the game had already started.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
You're missing my point - it did NOT override a completely fair agreement between players.
They hadn't agreed to anything properly, both "assuming" the NOVA FAQ ruling meant something different (and in each of their favor respectively, a natural reaction).
So ... if you would have preferred they just stand at an impasse with no result whatsoever, instead of the TO helping them out in a game that had no bearing on the tournament results ... well, is that really what you think GOOD TO'ing is?
221
Post by: Frazzled
Arctik_Firangi wrote:'Grats Stelek, ya big angry fart!
'Grats DOP, ya big angry fart!
Now that all is said and fair, I think the 'impassable terrain' incident was a pretty poor show. If both players agreed to it being impassable and blocking LOS, then that's exactly what it should have done regardless of what observers had to say once the game had started.
I've seen similar incidents with TOs suddenly declaring rivers as 'impassable' mid-game when the players had agreed on it being Dangerous Terrain and there was no argument between them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and Frazz, it's written up by a third-party reporter. None of Stelek's usual crap, ya big angry fart. (By the way, people, 'fart' is filtered )
Its also blocked at work, ironically for "weapons" ( WTF?) 
17349
Post by: SilverMK2
Frazzled wrote:Its also blocked at work, ironically for "weapons" ( WTF?)
Haha, that is what my work filter says too
221
Post by: Frazzled
MVBrandt wrote:You're missing my point - it did NOT override a completely fair agreement between players.
They hadn't agreed to anything properly, both "assuming" the NOVA FAQ ruling meant something different (and in each of their favor respectively, a natural reaction).
So ... if you would have preferred they just stand at an impasse with no result whatsoever, instead of the TO helping them out in a game that had no bearing on the tournament results ... well, is that really what you think GOOD TO'ing is?
Mellow out.
14070
Post by: SagesStone
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/08/darwinn-here-bringing-you-live-coverage.html wrote:Darwinn here, bringing you live coverage from the Airport Holiday Inn.
Today we will see a matchup between Internet Tough Guy Stelek vs. Internet Drunk Guy DashofPepper. It will be a classic matchup between Stelek's super WAAC cheese fest, pitted against Dashes WAAAGH yelling King of Green. Stelek has come all the way from his moms basement to attend the match, while Dash has managed to stop drinking long enough to make the trip to DC for the main event.
The pre-game smack talk has already begun:
"Orks suck"
"No they don't"
"Does so"
"Does not"
Unfortunately while this reporter was focused intently on the witty exchange of banter the photographer saw her opportunity to escape and decided to take the company credit card and run for the hills, so unfortunately I will be unable to bring you live pictures from the event (read; my wife is spending the weekend in Philly with some of her girlfriends while I'm nerding out this weekend. And she took both my credit card and our camera...ahh such is the price we pay for our hobbies)
So lets see what lists they are playing today:
The Lists
Stelek, being the lazy git that he is, decided to just bring one army to DC and will be using his tournament army for this event. The list is available here. It's a basic all-comers list. Very solid shooting backed up by some decent close combat units and a couple of tricks to throw the enemy off. Nothing really stands out in the list, but that's the point. Lots of small redundant units where each one is a threat, but nothing is such a threat that it really dictates a higher priority than anything else in the list. While not amazing at anything, it's good enough at everything to be able to compete with anything Dash throws down.
Dashes List:
HQ:
Gazgull
KFF Mek
Troops:
7 Nobs, various equipment(2 claw total)
-Battlewagon /w Deffrolla, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota, Grabbin Klaw, Grot Riggers
16 Slugga boys /w Nob, PK
12 Slugga Boys /w Nob, Pk
-Trukk, Boarding Plank, Ram
10 Gretchin, Runtherder
Eliete:
15 Burnaz
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
Fast Attack:
1 Deffkopta /w Buzzsaw
1 Deffkopta /w Buzzsaw
3 Rockkit Buggies
Heavy
Battlewagon /w Deffrolla, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota, Armor Plates, Grot Riggers
Battlewagon /w Deffrolla, Boarding Plank, Big Shoota, Armor Plates, Grot Riggers
Apparently some of Steleks models were damaged in transport, but Dash, ever friendly, was quick to provide some glue to help Stelek piece his models back together.
Deployment
The mission has been decided and we will playing spearhead deployment.
First victory condition is table quarters
Second victory condition is Objectives
Third victory condition is Victory points
Terrain has been discussed so we know what is impassable (nothing is) and what counts as cover.
Dash won the roll to go first.
Both players have really enjoyed talking to each other pregame but as we get closer to the game you can tell the game faces are going on. Lots of consideration about LoS and where things need to be deployed.
Dash picked his table quarter and so started the deep thought. The battle wagons were deployed as far forward as they can go, with his deff koptas, rockit buggies and trucks hiding behind. One unit of lootas was placed next to his objective with the other unit more centered in some terrain with Gretchen right behind, possibly blocking wolf scouts coming in from the rear. 10 mins later....
Stelek deployed his 4 rhinos towards the center along the long table edge, with the two speeders right behind. The razorbacks are deep in his deployment zone with an IST troop hiding behind. Long fangs out in the open back boarding as far as they can go. The other IST is along the deployment zone edege as far forward as he can go in his opposite table quarter. The thunder wolves are right center of his deployment zone ready to rush to the aid of anyone who needs help.
Pregame scout moves saw two deff koptas move up Steleks right flank and the game has begun.
Turn 1
Dash
Dash moves his battle wagons as far forward as they will go and still hiding behind the center piece of terrain. The deff koptas move forward towards the rhinos, while the Truckk boys and rockkit buggies move up behind the battle wagons hiding out of LOS.
Shooting phase sees the far lootas talking aim at a rhino, half of them granting cover, blowing a storm bolter off. The second unit takes aim at a razorback thats in the clear and gets two hits, penning twice and exploding the vehicle...6" explosion killing one missile in range. Grethin run around to surround the lootas a bit more. Truck shoots a big shoota at a speeder and does nothing. Two deff koptas shoot, one hits and blows another storm bolter off a rhino. Deff koptas assault their two targeted rhinos and immobilizes and blows weapons off both of them.
Stelek
The IST in the back hop into a razorback to "get safe". The scouts come out from behind the center building and both speeders move forward bypassing the deff koptas. One rhino moves forward and dumps their space puppies out so the IST can jump in the now empty rhino...giving Stelek a scoring rhino in the center of the board, with space wolves on foot right next to it. The other rhino moves over difficult terrain and dumps the space puppies out in the center of the board. The two immobilized/weapon destroyed rhinos sit pretty with the guys staying inside...while the wolf lords don't move. Razorbacks shuffle forward a little bit. So at the end of the turn we have 3 marine units in the center of the board on foot.
Shooting phase sees the guys in the immobilized rhinos shoot out of the hatch and kill both deff koptas. The guys on foot shoot close range meltas into the closest battle wagon, exploding it. The explosion kills one scout and grey hunters, while 7 nobs take no wounds. Realizing that nothing is impassible, but their is a solid wall in the way, means one melta can't see what it wants to shoot at. So two speeders take aim, and one misses, with the other failing to pen AV14. A meltagun takes a weapon off a battle wagon. Kracks fly at the nobs that just got disembarked killing 4, and three lascanns do nothing. Wolf lords fleet a little to shift around and dash passes his moral test. Wolf scouts miss a battle wagon.
Assault phase sees the wolf scouts charging the battle wagon they shot at, and since everything else disembarked their are no more assaults. The wolf scouts swing at the battle wagon and didn't even hit it due to moving to fast.
So Turn 1, dash does little to Stelek, while Stelek destroyed a battle wagon and killed a couple of deff koptas. But the orks are in the middle, and with lots of troops on the board not in vehicles Stelek can't be feeling like he's in the best position.
Turn 2
The kid gloves are starting to come off and things are starting to get intense.
Dash tank shocks with a battle wagon directly forward hitting the wolf scouts that just assaulted it. Deff rollas kill all the scouts, while the melta gun doesn't destory the battle wagon. It then catches a grey hunter squad which runs and a rhino which explodes and kills 1 IST in the explosion, and then after they disembark the catches one more killing him, which does enough wounds to the IST. Thats one impressive deff rolla, 1 unit of wolf guards, a rhino, breaks a IST squad and grey hunter squad which are running away. The nobs move around in position to assault the grey hunters that shot up their ride. The truck moves towards the flank and the guys get out ready to assist the Nobs just in case they don't have it by themselves. The burnas disembardk from their ride, with gazzy getting out ready to charge the wolf lords. Rockkit buggies move up to get LOS to a rhino while Orks jump out of the middle battle wagon ready to assault anything that happens to disembarks.
Shooting phase sees rockit buggies wreck one speeder, while lootas explode another. The other lootas stunns a razorback twice, and the Orks are done with shooting. A WAAAGH is called and the burnas move up to mob one wolf lord, while Gazzy fleets to go after another, while the boys in the center fleet to surround the immoblized rhino.
Assault phase sees the boys wrap around their immobilized rhino and catch the IST, who fail their rally and go away. The Nobs assault the grey hunters, with the truckk boys allowing the truck boys to wrap around and catch the rhino that they grey hunters were riding in. The burnas move in to assault one wolf lord pinning it in place, while Gazzy assaults the ferisan wolf bodyguards since they are the closest model, meaning the other wolf lord can swing around and hit the burnas. So the scrum is gassy fighting two ferisian wolfs, while the two TWC fight burnas.
The wolf lords kill 8 burnas, while they do nothing back and Gazzy kills the only two wolfs that he was in combat with. 3 more dies to fearless saves and gazzy takes no wounds. The guys in the center glance it to death and wreck and the grey hunters inside pile out. The grey hunters punch the nobs and wounds three. The nobs swing, and predictably kill all but two of the grey hunters and wrecked their transport.
Stelek
Grey hunters move out of the immoblized rhino in the back ready to assist the two grey hunters left alive. The fleeing grey hunters were within 6" of the enemy and continued to run off the table. The last grey hunter squad moved up to the immobilized tansport.
Shooting phase sees kracks fly at rockit buggies immobilizing/killing one. Frags are launched at the lootas and grots, killing 2 grots. Lascannons from the razorbacks miss or get bounces off cover. The grey hunters shoot at the boys they are about to assault, killing a couple.
Gazzy kills one TWC in assault, and the other did nothing back leaving them stuck in combat another round. The middle grey hunters assault the boys that destroyed the rhino, winning combat and killing the entire squad. On the left the grey hunters assaulted the truck boys, killing 5 and the truck boys swing back and 3, making the boys take 2 fearless saves. The grey hunters that were in combat with the nobs die a horable death and the nobs move off ready to cause some havoc.
Turn 3
Dash charges a razorback with a deffrolla and predictably kills it, the other moves up ready to assault down the line next turn. The rockitt buggies move up to take shots at the rhino containing the last unmolested grey hunter squad (and last unmolested troop). The Nobs, now free of the grey hunters, attempt to move through the terrain to get at the grey hunters hoping that the buggies will kill the rhino so they can get to the juicy cream filling....but roll double 1's and are left wondering what to do.
Shotting sees one loota squad miss their target, and the other lootas stuns a razorback...about to eat a deff rolla.
During the assault phase the nobs decide to charge the grey hunters that are beating up on the truck boys. Gazzy squishes the last TWC, but not before it puts two wounds back. The grey hunters do nothing to the Truck boys and the Nobs squish the last couple of grey hunters holding out.
Stelek
Wolf scouts come on this turn and get ready to take on some Gretchen that are protecting the lootas. The IST's get out of their rhino in the back and move up to give some plasma loving to Gazzy....and movement is done.
Shooting sees two cracks into the side of a battle wagon, and one in the front. One pen and the battle wagon explodes after a failed cover save. 4 more Kracks shoot at the side of the last remaining battle wagon holding the KFF mech, destorying it and disembarking the Mek. The las/ plas razorback takes aim at the KFF and dies from a lascannon. The ISTs light up gazzy doing putting him down to 1 wound left. The rhino in the back reparis itself, but has nothing else to do. The last grey hunter squad shoots the Nobs and does nothing. The last long fangs shoot kracks at the nobs, killing 1.
Assault phase sees the grey hunters moving in to assault the Nobs they just shot, but failing 2 dangerous terrain tests and die to the Nobs. The wolf scouts in the back are able to slip through the wide gaps in grot line and get to the lootas, but a poor roll on the difficult terrain test means they are stuck assaulting grots, which supprisingly they kill.
And of course spell check breaks...so you get to read bad spelling and all 
Turn 4
Dash moves Gazzy to assault one of the long fang units. The Rocket buggies move up in range of the razorbacks.
Shooting sees lootas desperatly try to shoot the wolf scouts that are about to charge them, but failing to do anything. Rockket buggies shoot one of the razorbacks and pen it, but the rocket bounces off a piece of terrain doing nothing.
Gazzy assaults into the longfangs with his 1 wound left. The long fangs swing first, doing 4 wounds and gazzy fails his save and dies. The rhino that just repaired itself gets assaulted by some truck boys and explodes, killing a couple of boys.
Things have swung for Stelek. With no mobility left and nothing left to threaten his back field he can easily claim two quarters and assuming his wolf scouts don't fail him can finish off the lootas in the back and swing it for a victory.
Stelek
Stelek turn 4 sees the wolf scouts moving out ready to assault some lootas, and ISTs move up so they might be able to do something later.
Shooting sees a shaken/weapon destoryed Trukk and the last two rocket buggies bite it to a combo of las/ plas and rockets. Some rockets shot at the remaining truck boys killing a couple but they pass their leadership test and stay.
Assault phase sees wolf scouts assaulting one unit of lootas and whiping them out, leaving one unit of lootas left.
Turn 5
Dash
Things are moving much faster now that most things are dead.
The still mobil truckk moves behind the center peice of terrain to get out of LOS of the shooting coming it's way. The Nobs move back in an attempt to reclaim their quarter from the scouts threating the back field...and the last two truck boys are hideing behind a wrecked rhino trying not to be noticed.
Shooting sees the lootas kill one wolf scout, then prepare for the inevedable.
No assaults
Stelek
Now lets see if he can clean it up....
Wolf scouts move up to get into charge range of the last unit of lootas, and one razorback moves into a quarter to claim it.
Shooting sees some stray lascannon and missle fire shooting at the nobs peaking out around the building, killing 2. Wolf scouts shoot the loots they are about to charge, but manage to kill them all before they got to assault.
They shake hand and decide to call it because it's getting late. They tie on on table quarters as the nobs move back to claim their deployment quarter, and the truck boys hunker down and claim theirs, where as the long fang and razorbacks claim their two quarters. So we go to second tie breaker which is objectives, and both have one, and IST is on one objective in their deployment zone, and the truck boys are close enough to claim theirs. So were down to the third tie breaker which is victory points and you have to win by 250 victory points...of which they are also tied (exact points are unknown, but it was very close). So we go to the 4' th tie breaker which is straight victory points and Stelek has it by a hair.
So in a hard fought LONG game Stelek manages to eak it out.
Good games by all. Despite some tough competition and a couple of rules questions, they still manage to shake hands and say "good game" at the end of the day. No opionions were chaged, but I can definatly say that their was some serious respect gained by all.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
I'm always mellow. Ask people who were at the Open
Toneless internet ftl :(
8044
Post by: Arctik_Firangi
MVBrandt wrote:You're missing my point - it did NOT override a completely fair agreement between players.
They hadn't agreed to anything properly, both "assuming" the NOVA FAQ ruling meant something different (and in each of their favor respectively, a natural reaction).
So ... if you would have preferred they just stand at an impasse with no result whatsoever, instead of the TO helping them out in a game that had no bearing on the tournament results ... well, is that really what you think GOOD TO'ing is?
I hear what you're saying.
I was under the impression that the following happened in the following order - correct me if I'm wrong 'cos I read through it quickly... 'working' ATM.
1) Pre-game, both players agreed that the central building would be impassable.
2) The game started - deployment, etc.
3) The ruling on the building was 'changed'.
#3 created the initial confusion, which could have been prevented if it was left as it was. That's all I'm saying, and I'm aware that this was nothing short of a great exhibition match otherwise.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Gotcha, this explains it; let me clarify the actual course of events
1) Pre-Event, NOVA FAQ clarifies that there will be no impassable terrain at the Open Weekend
2) Pre-game, both players confirm that the building is not impassable, and are reminded of it
3) Mid-game, player uses this agreed-upon ruling to transpose his deffrolla wagon INTO a walls-on-all-sides-no-entrances building in center field.
4) Confusion arises, tournament judges who are there for the social / whiskey challenge match coverage clarify that just b/c a piece of terrain is not impassable does not mean you get to transpose INSIDE of it (i.e. you don't go into a hill, you go over it), and so the deffrolla should be over the building / on it, not transposed into it.
5) Game continues, shots are offered on the not-blocked wagon, etc.
8044
Post by: Arctik_Firangi
Rawrsome, thanks!
The writer who writes more than he reads writes mostly crap.
Back to writing...
330
Post by: Mahu
MVBrandt wrote:Gotcha, this explains it; let me clarify the actual course of events
1) Pre-Event, NOVA FAQ clarifies that there will be no impassable terrain at the Open Weekend
2) Pre-game, both players confirm that the building is not impassable, and are reminded of it
3) Mid-game, player uses this agreed-upon ruling to transpose his deffrolla wagon INTO a walls-on-all-sides-no-entrances building in center field.
4) Confusion arises, tournament judges who are there for the social / whiskey challenge match coverage clarify that just b/c a piece of terrain is not impassable does not mean you get to transpose INSIDE of it (i.e. you don't go into a hill, you go over it), and so the deffrolla should be over the building / on it, not transposed into it.
5) Game continues, shots are offered on the not-blocked wagon, etc.
Sounds reasonable, my only problem with the course of events is that there are rules for intact buildings, and those should have been followed. Doing anything more then that constitutes a change in 40k rules by the tournament. Not trying to call anybody out, as I have great respect for the event, and what it accomplished, just my observation.
Regardless, is was a great batrep to read. To me, it was the equivalent to a boxing or MMA fight, you don't have to like the fighters involved to enjoy the tactics and strategies they where employing, and just like any match, one fight doesn't prove anything.
However, I would say that ultimately, Dash proved his point. Because of everything Stelek has said about Orks, how easy they are to take out, going to a 4th tie breaker on Dash's part was, in a sense, a victory. Stelek would have only "proved" his point if he would have gotten an easy win.
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
Is it just me or is that Wolf list kinda dumb? Of course, who am I to question The Great and Terrible Stelek...lool
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Mahu wrote:MVBrandt wrote:Gotcha, this explains it; let me clarify the actual course of events
1) Pre-Event, NOVA FAQ clarifies that there will be no impassable terrain at the Open Weekend
2) Pre-game, both players confirm that the building is not impassable, and are reminded of it
3) Mid-game, player uses this agreed-upon ruling to transpose his deffrolla wagon INTO a walls-on-all-sides-no-entrances building in center field.
4) Confusion arises, tournament judges who are there for the social / whiskey challenge match coverage clarify that just b/c a piece of terrain is not impassable does not mean you get to transpose INSIDE of it (i.e. you don't go into a hill, you go over it), and so the deffrolla should be over the building / on it, not transposed into it.
5) Game continues, shots are offered on the not-blocked wagon, etc.
Sounds reasonable, my only problem with the course of events is that there are rules for intact buildings, and those should have been followed. Doing anything more then that constitutes a change in 40k rules by the tournament. Not trying to call anybody out, as I have great respect for the event, and what it accomplished, just my observation.
Regardless, is was a great batrep to read. To me, it was the equivalent to a boxing or MMA fight, you don't have to like the fighters involved to enjoy the tactics and strategies they where employing, and just like any match, one fight doesn't prove anything.
However, I would say that ultimately, Dash proved his point. Because of everything Stelek has said about Orks, how easy they are to take out, going to a 4th tie breaker on Dash's part was, in a sense, a victory. Stelek would have only "proved" his point if he would have gotten an easy win.
While I agree, fairness and equivalency other than army/skill was what we were shooting for; as such, we had the same format for terrain on every table in terms of where the pieces were ... variety was obtained by necessity with the fact that no table had the same terrain pieces. Just not possible. As such, to use "building" rules for some tables, and not for others, impassable for some tables and not for others, etc., would have constituted too much of a breach of fairness for our comfort level.
As such, buildings weren't used, all were treated as ruins, and impassable terrain was treated as just difficult that you couldn't transpose models into.
I understand it is a rules change, but it's one that increases the integrity of the event ... not decreases it.
6308
Post by: TimmyMWD
Mahu wrote:
However, I would say that ultimately, Dash proved his point. Because of everything Stelek has said about Orks, how easy they are to take out, going to a 4th tie breaker on Dash's part was, in a sense, a victory. Stelek would have only "proved" his point if he would have gotten an easy win.
Playing devil's advocate, I would say that isn't necessarily true. Now, I don't agree with Stelek about Orks, but in his defense his assumption about that terrain piece put him in a real bad spot in that game.
13106
Post by: EzeKK
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Is it just me or is that Wolf list kinda dumb? Of course, who am I to question The Great and Terrible Stelek...lool
Not at ALL. The list has MSU + enough units to threaten the midfield and your opponents backfield all while still having a firebase back home AND having both shooting and CC threat. It also seems really flexible having the ability to infiltrate scouts or flank them, deep strike speeders or hang them back.
All I can say bout the game though is that it was a great one.
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
Hey folks!
I'm on the road from D.C. back to Florida today - I'm in NC right now headed south, pulling off for a few minutes so that we can grab some lunch. I'll get my Whiskey Challenge Battle report written hopefully tonight when we get home, and follow up with the rest of the batreps this week / next week / this weekend etc as time presents itself to do so.
3197
Post by: MagickalMemories
One (rules) question:
Turn 1:
One rhino moves forward and dumps their space puppies out so the IST can jump in the now empty rhino...giving Stelek a scoring rhino in the center of the board,
I thought you couldn't have one unit get out and another get into the same vehicle in the same phase. Am I remembering the rule wrong?
Before anyone jumps on me, if I had my ruebook at work, I *would* look it up myself . : )
Thanks.
Eric
20260
Post by: darwinn69
I was the reporter watching the game.
MVBrant is almost right in the order of things. I didn't include the full details of the entire discussion in the report because well frankly I didn't feel a live battle report was the place for it. The players worked it out amicably amongst themselves and I wanted to pretty much leave it at that. But to be exact, here is how it went down.
1. Their is a big bastion in the center of the board. Both players agreed that it was impassable.
2. Both players deploy their stuff thinking that it was impassable.
3. Someone from the crowd mentions that tourney rules say no terrain is impassable.
-In hindsight they probably shouldn't have said anything as both players agreed to how to play and it's really bad form to comment on other peoples game.
-However, once they determined that it shouldn't be impassable, they agreed to keeping it that way because, after all, thats how the rest of the tournament was going to be played. They didn't discuss the terrain any more and left it at that.
4. Dash moved, and said something to the effect of "I'm moving through this terrain, how do you want me to represent it?" Stelek said something to the effect of "Just put dice around which parts should be outside of the terrain".
-At this point, Stelek assumed that dash was on top of the bastion with parts hanging out over the edge, while Dash assumed his battlewagons were inside the terrain with only it's butt showing.
5. Stelek moved to shoot and get melta gun shots off. When it came to shooting thats when both players realized they had different assumptions about where the battle wagons actually were (on top of the bastion or inside the bastion)
-Although slightly irritated because he was out of position to shoot and felt it was kind of BS, Stelek let it go and proceeded with his shooting phase with the assumption that the battle wagons were inside the terrain out of LOS.
6. Sometime after the shooting phase a judge was summoned just to clarify how it will actually work for the real games tomorrow, and that's when they determined that the battle wagon should have indeed been placed on top of the bastion in LoS of everything.
7. Both players agreed, and the game continued on, and the TO's made sure that it was clear how that worked the next day
Ultimately the rules issue wouldn't have effected anything anyways. The melta-guns that would have shot at the battlewagon shot at other stuff and either missed, failed to penetrate, or Dash made his KFF saves. Although Stelek was a bit irritated, he rolled with the punches and they proceeded to have a great game and earned a lot of respect for each other at the end of the game.
As far as the final victory points, I don't know what they actually were. Stelek may well have had more than a 250 point spread...but it wasn't much more as he had lots of stuff dead. I thought I heard Stelek say that they might be under 250 points, but he had him on straight VP's. But it was very late at that point, and I was tired so my brain registered 4'th tie breaker and ran with it.
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Post by: ghostmaker
Wow people all still annoyed at stelek. I just read this for the lolz but sounds like it went well.
330
Post by: Mahu
I understand it is a rules change, but it's one that increases the integrity of the event ... not decreases it.
If the goal is to make everything equal, that is fine, and I understand how you can make the argument that it increases the integrity of the event.
The rules for terrain exist for a reason, and they should be followed.
I would personally disagree with increasing the integrity of the event by leveling the playing field on terrain, it should be what it is, a player has no control over the terrain he could have, just like he had no control over the type of army he faces. I think it hurts you more to have terrain become more ambiguous because it forces your players to adapt to your particular style of terrain interpretations, which I think is evident in this fight. If it was just treated as an intact building, there wouldn't have even been an argument. The only thing a player should expect is 25% terrain coverage with some blocking terrain.
This is just my opinion and like I said, I have huge respect for what the Nova has done for competitive players. It has proved the you can have your cake and eat it to, that sportsmanship scores are the roaster illusion people like me have been saying for years now, and you proved that there is such a thing as a healthy competitive scene. You have my respect for that.
Playing devil's advocate, I would say that isn't necessarily true. Now, I don't agree with Stelek about Orks, but in his defense his assumption about that terrain piece put him in a real bad spot in that game.
Both Dash and Stelek can argue all day long about where the game could have/ should have gone considering the interpretations and assumptions made, at the end of the day the results stand.
My point is that, as a reader of Stelek's blog (more because there is very few good competitive 40k resources on the net, I disagree with him on a number of issues) is that Stelek has said so many bad things about Orks, that the only way for him to be justified in the things that he has said is to almost totally blow out Dash of Pepper. Here is probably his most scathing post on the subject:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/03/editorial-why-orks-suck.html
Dash says that Orks are a plenty competitive codex in the right hands, and at the end of the day, he went to the 4th tie breaker before loosing. If this was an Aard Boyz or Adepticon style mission, it would have been a straight draw. Considering also Stelek was playing an army from one of the most competitive 40k codexes right now, a list that subsequently took 3 in the whole tournament, you have to give props for pulling that off.
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Post by: Skarboy
Both players made their points, whatever needed to be made. Dash showed orks to be competitive in good hands, Stelek got his win. Bottom line, sounds like a good game, all that could have been hoped.
27693
Post by: jdubb
Mahu wrote:
Dash says that Orks are a plenty competitive codex in the right hands, and at the end of the day, he went to the 4th tie breaker before loosing. If this was an Aard Boyz or Adepticon style mission, it would have been a straight draw. Considering also Stelek was playing an army from one of the most competitive 40k codexes right now, a list that subsequently took 3 in the whole tournament, you have to give props for pulling that off.
Especially, when you consider that Dash had the same record in the actual event the next day (4-0) and made it to the same round in the finals as Stelek (round 6). Stelek and Dash each got beat by the players that would play in the final round. I think it's safe to say that Dash made his point.
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Post by: Kevin Nash
Mahu wrote:
My point is that, as a reader of Stelek's blog (more because there is very few good competitive 40k resources on the net, I disagree with him on a number of issues) is that Stelek has said so many bad things about Orks, that the only way for him to be justified in the things that he has said is to almost totally blow out Dash of Pepper. Here is probably his most scathing post on the subject:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/03/editorial-why-orks-suck.html
Dash says that Orks are a plenty competitive codex in the right hands, and at the end of the day, he went to the 4th tie breaker before loosing. If this was an Aard Boyz or Adepticon style mission, it would have been a straight draw. Considering also Stelek was playing an army from one of the most competitive 40k codexes right now, a list that subsequently took 3 in the whole tournament, you have to give props for pulling that off.
I agree. I think this shows that Orks are certainly competitive. In fact I would say that Dash lost because his list wasn't entirely optimal. If it had been he might be looking at a win instead of a narrow loss.
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Post by: Snikkyd
Kevin Nash wrote:Mahu wrote: My point is that, as a reader of Stelek's blog (more because there is very few good competitive 40k resources on the net, I disagree with him on a number of issues) is that Stelek has said so many bad things about Orks, that the only way for him to be justified in the things that he has said is to almost totally blow out Dash of Pepper. Here is probably his most scathing post on the subject: http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/03/editorial-why-orks-suck.html Dash says that Orks are a plenty competitive codex in the right hands, and at the end of the day, he went to the 4th tie breaker before loosing. If this was an Aard Boyz or Adepticon style mission, it would have been a straight draw. Considering also Stelek was playing an army from one of the most competitive 40k codexes right now, a list that subsequently took 3 in the whole tournament, you have to give props for pulling that off.
I agree. I think this shows that Orks are certainly competitive. In fact I would say that Dash lost because his list wasn't entirely optimal. If it had been he might be looking at a win instead of a narrow loss.
Yeah, I think Stelek actually admitted that Dash could have won if he had a better list.
19754
Post by: puma713
MagickalMemories wrote:One (rules) question:
Turn 1:
One rhino moves forward and dumps their space puppies out so the IST can jump in the now empty rhino...giving Stelek a scoring rhino in the center of the board,
I thought you couldn't have one unit get out and another get into the same vehicle in the same phase. Am I remembering the rule wrong?
Before anyone jumps on me, if I had my ruebook at work, I *would* look it up myself . : )
Thanks.
Eric
The same unit can't get embark and disembark (or vice versa) in the same turn. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Snikkyd wrote:Kevin Nash wrote:Mahu wrote:
My point is that, as a reader of Stelek's blog (more because there is very few good competitive 40k resources on the net, I disagree with him on a number of issues) is that Stelek has said so many bad things about Orks, that the only way for him to be justified in the things that he has said is to almost totally blow out Dash of Pepper. Here is probably his most scathing post on the subject:
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/03/editorial-why-orks-suck.html
Dash says that Orks are a plenty competitive codex in the right hands, and at the end of the day, he went to the 4th tie breaker before loosing. If this was an Aard Boyz or Adepticon style mission, it would have been a straight draw. Considering also Stelek was playing an army from one of the most competitive 40k codexes right now, a list that subsequently took 3 in the whole tournament, you have to give props for pulling that off.
I agree. I think this shows that Orks are certainly competitive. In fact I would say that Dash lost because his list wasn't entirely optimal. If it had been he might be looking at a win instead of a narrow loss.
Yeah, I think Stelek actually admitted that Dash could have won if he had a better list.
Wasn't that the center of the entire debate, though? The weakness of the list? Or was it the Ork codex in general? And I think the discussion is beginning to take away some credibility from Stelek. After all, he did win. Why is everyone so focused on what -would- have happened rather than what did happen? I dunno. Maybe it's because Stelek is frowned upon here and this is Dash's "turf". But "If it had been x tournament" or "if Dash had taken x" or "if he had done this or that or the other" is all well and good, but it wasn't Tournament X, Dash didn't take X and Stelek eeked out a win. Grats to him, imo, rather than trying to figure out how many ways it could be considered that he didn't win.
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Post by: Nurglitch
Anyone find it significant that the event was won by a 16 year old?
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Post by: Inquisitor_Syphonious
Nurglitch wrote:Anyone find it significant that the event was won by a 16 year old?
Think it's just you.
There were some 12-14 year olds, it would be significant if THEY had placed well, but 16 leaves enough room to have enough smarts, and enough time to have played the game for a reasonable amount of time, I mean I know kids that have been playing for over twice the time as alot of adults who pick up this game.
Granted, their armies usually aren't as pretty.
I did honestly think that Stelek or Dashofpepper were going to win though, I was looking forward to another match between them too.
Was it expected? No. Significant? Less so.
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Post by: Sidstyler
...not really. Explain?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Nurglitch wrote:Anyone find it significant that the event was won by a 16 year old?
No, but I find it significant that:
1. ITG Stelek couldn't beat Dash's Orks with his uber Spaz Woofz, had to go to 4th tiebreaker to claim a marginal "win".
2. ITG Stelek couldn't beat a 16-yo kid
The batrep was very helpful. Based on this event, along with his game against Parker, it seems to me that Stelek isn't nearly as good of a player as he (and his fan club) thinks he is. He didn't win out, despite taking a top-tier Codex. I wonder what sort of excuses he'll be making...
Anyhow, major congratulations to Dash for taking Orks to what would otherwise be a dead draw against ITG Stelek fielding a WAAC list. 
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Post by: WarOne
Don't worry Dash, you can still win!
Just have to believe in da hart of da Orks!
WAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!
And it looked like a decided momentum changer when Dash finally lost the last of his BWs and had little mobility with which to contest against Stelek.
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Post by: KingCracker
It sucks that Dash lost, mainly because I think Stelek is an asshat for how he trashes other armies. But I have to say it was a nice read. Man those guys beat the piss out of each other eh? Now those are the games I enjoy most. When its just a slug fest, count me in.
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Post by: pretre
JohnHwangDD wrote:Nurglitch wrote:Anyone find it significant that the event was won by a 16 year old?
No, but I find it significant that:
1. ITG Stelek couldn't beat Dash's Orks with his uber Spaz Woofz, had to go to 4th tiebreaker to claim a marginal "win".
2. ITG Stelek couldn't beat a 16-yo kid
The batrep was very helpful. Based on this event, along with his game against Parker, it seems to me that Stelek isn't nearly as good of a player as he (and his fan club) thinks he is. He didn't win out, despite taking a top-tier Codex. I wonder what sort of excuses he'll be making...
Anyhow, major congratulations to Dash for taking Orks to what would otherwise be a dead draw against ITG Stelek fielding a WAAC list.
If you read what he said about Nova, he didn't make an excuse. He said Dash was a great player and that Tony (the 16 year old) was a great general and he was happy to have had a challenge. And as Mannahnin said earlier, Stelek actually won on 3rd tie breaker >250 VP but it was reported inaccurately at first. Dash will have to confirm that.
He went to Nova and played against some tough folks and came in third out of a field of 90 or so. How did you do?
Don't try to make him out to be a boogie man. He's just a guy. He put his money (for flights) where is mouth is and went. Took a bunch of balls considering the Stelliehate out there. I don't know that a lot of other ITGs would do the same.
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Post by: BladeWalker
I thought Stelek was supposed to bring Tau? Not taking anything away from him but being able to tailor build a list with what is currently the most dominant tournament codex is a distinct advantage. I could have sworn I read somewhere that he was going to beat Orks with Tau to show how much "orks suck"?
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Post by: Smurfy
Regarding ages of individuals that entered -
Tony K's (the winner) brother: Andy K, went 3-1 in Day 1.
He is 14. As expected by now, Andy (the 14 yr old) was using Blood Angels
Just pointing that out as I know them both. Andy I couldn't believe he got that far from how I played him before (like a year ago) - Too rash and headlong into a game no real forethought.
Tony I recall we drew our games as we tried SW out with their Old Codex before this new one was released.
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Post by: pretre
BladeWalker wrote:I thought Stelek was supposed to bring Tau? Not taking anything away from him but being able to tailor build a list with what is currently the most dominant tournament codex is a distinct advantage. I could have sworn I read somewhere that he was going to beat Orks with Tau to show how much "orks suck"?
I believe this changed because he didn't want to bring two armies. Dash might know.
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Post by: puma713
pretre wrote:JohnHwangDD wrote:Nurglitch wrote:Anyone find it significant that the event was won by a 16 year old?
No, but I find it significant that:
1. ITG Stelek couldn't beat Dash's Orks with his uber Spaz Woofz, had to go to 4th tiebreaker to claim a marginal "win".
2. ITG Stelek couldn't beat a 16-yo kid
The batrep was very helpful. Based on this event, along with his game against Parker, it seems to me that Stelek isn't nearly as good of a player as he (and his fan club) thinks he is. He didn't win out, despite taking a top-tier Codex. I wonder what sort of excuses he'll be making...
Anyhow, major congratulations to Dash for taking Orks to what would otherwise be a dead draw against ITG Stelek fielding a WAAC list.
If you read what he said about Nova, he didn't make an excuse. He said Dash was a great player and that Tony (the 16 year old) was a great general and he was happy to have had a challenge. And as Mannahnin said earlier, Stelek actually won on 3rd tie breaker >250 VP but it was reported inaccurately at first. Dash will have to confirm that.
He went to Nova and played against some tough folks and came in third out of a field of 90 or so. How did you do?
Don't try to make him out to be a boogie man. He's just a guy. He put his money (for flights) where is mouth is and went. Took a bunch of balls considering the Stelliehate out there. I don't know that a lot of other ITGs would do the same.
+1
I don't even read his blog or follow him in any form or fashion, but to say he went 5-1 at this event and beat Dash as well, that's saying something for him, I'd say. And I love how everyone keeps saying "top tier codex" as if to say the codex makes the player. I guess it has nothing to do with the person behind the little figurines, eh? You just put your codex's rules down on the table and compare notes, then decides who wins? You can just as easily take a "top tier codex" and lose.
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Post by: MVBrandt
Ah, Tony is really, really good. His schedule was absurdly tough ...
Mafty's jetseer/mech eldar
2 x Loganwing w/ thunderwolves
2 x Razorwolves, including Stelek
Mark Ferek's BA
Mark himself went through
2 optimized mech-heavy marines
Dameon Green's multi-ticket-winning CSM
Danny Internet's Ard Boyz successful IG (Danny won Ren Man)
Justin Hilderbrandt's Orks - aka DashofPepper
So Tony beat all them, and the guy who beat all those ...
and would probably kick just about all yall's butts more often than not.
Taking a potshot at Stelek, whatever ... IDC. But taking a potshot at him by referring to it as a proof of weakness that he lost to a "16 y/o kid" is ignorant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, for anyone who wants to see an absurd slugfest, look for the battle report Dash will invariably post regarding Mark Ferek vs. Him in the semi-finals.
I think there were 700 vp left on the table, total, and it was determined by a single dice at the end of Turn 7.
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Post by: Nurglitch
I agree; the whole "Codex tiers" blather really detracts from the role of the player in Warhammer 40k. Speaking of, it occurred to me that it could be the preponderance of Space Wolf armies at the tournament rather than any essential virtues of the army list itself that resulted in its disproportionate representative in the finalists.
I haven't seen a list of which armies were at the tournament, nor any analysis of their representation by %, but I'm very curious because it would be interesting to see if there were more or less Space Wolf armies than 3/4, and exactly how much.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I have no problems with a 16 y/o kid being good - his win is deserved.
I do hope that future Stelek is less of an ass to people who don't play what he says they have to, given that it's clear he's not as good as he wishes he was.
20774
Post by: pretre
Nurglitch wrote:I agree; the whole "Codex tiers" blather really detracts from the role of the player in Warhammer 40k. Speaking of, it occurred to me that it could be the preponderance of Space Wolf armies at the tournament rather than any essential virtues of the army list itself that resulted in its disproportionate representative in the finalists.
I haven't seen a list of which armies were at the tournament, nor any analysis of their representation by %, but I'm very curious because it would be interesting to see if there were more or less Space Wolf armies than 3/4, and exactly how much.
Check the Nova Open thread. MvB just posted the #'s and I posted the %'s.
4003
Post by: Nurglitch
Thanks pretre!
6308
Post by: TimmyMWD
JohnHwangDD wrote:
No, but I find it significant that:
1. ITG Stelek couldn't beat Dash's Orks with his uber Spaz Woofz, had to go to 4th tiebreaker to claim a marginal "win".
2. ITG Stelek couldn't beat a 16-yo kid
The batrep was very helpful. Based on this event, along with his game against Parker, it seems to me that Stelek isn't nearly as good of a player as he (and his fan club) thinks he is. He didn't win out, despite taking a top-tier Codex. I wonder what sort of excuses he'll be making...
Anyhow, major congratulations to Dash for taking Orks to what would otherwise be a dead draw against ITG Stelek fielding a WAAC list.
So you posted this thread so that way you could see if Stelek lived up to your unrealistic expectations? I'm not sure what the point is, you created an impossible scenario: either Stelek wins, and then it is because he is a WAAC douche, or he loses and he is not a good player. In this case ... he wins, but not by a big enough margin by your standard and therefore he is both a WAAC douche and not good at the game.
If you read the batrep, or anything about the game, or even Stelek's posts you'd see that both him and Dash were great sports and had a good time. Your grudge against Stelek shouldn't take away from that.
Furthermore, your logic in this post is rather ridiculous. Basically you just said:
No, but I find it significant that:
1. Stelek couldn't beat one of four players in round 6 (the top 4%)
2. Stelek couldn't beat the person who won the tournament
Again, I'm all for saying that Stelek's Ork arguments were clearly disproven, but to implicate that he is not a good player because his two losses came against two of the remaining four players on Sunday is a little obtuse.
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Post by: Mahu
Again, I'm all for saying that Stelek's Ork arguments were clearly disproven, but to implicate that he is not a good player because his two losses came against two of the remaining four players on Sunday is a little obtuse.
I agree with that point a little, though not is a drama inducing way.
Stelek proved that he is still a good player and can make the cut. Even he has admitted that he was simply outplayed by Tony, but in a tournament of 90 people, he still made it to the top tables. That is an accomplishment.
Dash and Stelek both proved they are good players this weekend, and Dash did it with a codex that supposedly "fails". He also had a very close game against Stelek. He proved that his codex is still competitive.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
@Timmy: Stelek created the situation, not me. He's the one saying stuff like Orks suck and people suck, not me.
I'm just asking if he's as good as he says he is, and the reality says no, he isn't.
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
JohnHwangDD wrote:
I do hope that future Stelek is less of an ass to people who don't play what he says they have to, given that it's clear he's not as good as he wishes he was.
That's the fun about hope, it doesn't have to be reasonable or probable in the least... Stelek has made his name doing what he does (see above), he's not going to change because someone who plays an army that "sucks" barely lost (drew) to him.
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Post by: Deadshane1
Stelek's not infallible/Human? Whodathunkit? (though he himself was prolly surprised)
He lost a game while remaining on top of the heap. Like MVBrandt essentaially said, another GOOD player beat him.
So what?
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Haters gonna hate.
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Post by: Frazzled
Sidstyler wrote:Haters gonna hate.
Drinkers gonna drink.
Breathers gonna breath.
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Post by: Deadshane1
Bloggers gonna lose!
OOOoooooooooooo!
(just had to...not that it means anything...I lost out worse by not being able to go. Makes me the bigger loser!)
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Post by: Kevin Nash
Snikkyd wrote:
Wasn't that the center of the entire debate, though? The weakness of the list? Or was it the Ork codex in general? And I think the discussion is beginning to take away some credibility from Stelek. After all, he did win. Why is everyone so focused on what -would- have happened rather than what did happen? I dunno. Maybe it's because Stelek is frowned upon here and this is Dash's "turf". But "If it had been x tournament" or "if Dash had taken x" or "if he had done this or that or the other" is all well and good, but it wasn't Tournament X, Dash didn't take X and Stelek eeked out a win. Grats to him, imo, rather than trying to figure out how many ways it could be considered that he didn't win.
It was the Ork codex in general. My disagreement with Stelek is over the quality of the Ork Codex. I think it's at least tier 2 and competitive (I think it's probably behind wolves, blood angels and guard). He thinks it sucks. Maybe he changed his mind since this weekend. The outcome of who outplayed who wasn't relevant to me. I don't even care who won. I just wanted to see orks compete with a top tier list and they did in that matchup.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
I don't know why it matters. Saying "Orks suck" isn't the same as saying "Everyone that plays Orks sucks". A good player can take a sub-par codex and do pretty good with it, which Dash demonstrated at Nova.
Indeed, if you're a good player and do pretty good with Orks then why do you give a gak what "tier" some guy on the internet ranks them at?
25983
Post by: Jackal
Love the way people bash stelek when he cant reply.
dont get me wrong, ive had tons of arguments with him and still dislike him, but you would think people had enough decensy to leave out the snide remarks and comment on the topic.
Speaking of which, seemed like a decent batrep, just a shame it was missing pics.
Also, could have, would have, should have.
No one knows what roll a dice will play at, so no point guessing.
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Post by: RiTides
Frazzled wrote:Breathers gonna breath.
I don't know why this particular line cracked me up, but it did
10086
Post by: Neconilis
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Love the way people bash stelek when he cant reply.
dont get me wrong, ive had tons of arguments with him and still dislike him, but you would think people had enough decensy to leave out the snide remarks and comment on the topic.
Speaking of which, seemed like a decent batrep, just a shame it was missing pics.
Also, could have, would have, should have.
No one knows what roll a dice will play at, so no point guessing.
No offense, but the fact that he's incapable of responding on here is entirely his own fault. Especially when you consider the level of rudeness that's demonstrated and tolerated by many of the posters who do still post here regularly. Some of those users in this very thread.
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Post by: Snikkyd
Sidstyler wrote:I don't know why it matters. Saying "Orks suck" isn't the same as saying "Everyone that plays Orks sucks". A good player can take a sub-par codex and do pretty good with it, which Dash demonstrated at Nova.
Indeed, if you're a good player and do pretty good with Orks then why do you give a gak what "tier" some guy on the internet ranks them at?
I agree, and thats why he should say "Orks aren't competitive" if thats what he thinks, instead of "Orks suck" because thats what he come across as saying, that everything about them is bad. Also Nash, I don't think Stelek changed his opinion on Orks, but he did seem to think they can still do well. Sometimes I don't really understand him, he annoys people by saying that their army sucks, then says that any army can win with a good player. No need to questin his motives I guess, just believe what you want to believe.
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Post by: Jackal
And i am included in those few on this thread.
Ive had many an argument with him in which warnings were handed out and threads locked, but i dont try and get in a childish cheapshot to make myself feel better.
If i want to pick at a post of his, i mail him and do so.
I actually got warned for having a shot at stelek a day after he got perm-banned (didnt know until afterwards), simply for talking about him while he cant respond.
He may not be here, but rule #1 is.
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Post by: Monster Rain
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:He may not be here, but rule #1 is.
True story.
Anyway...
Am I the only one who's ready to get his broom out and declare shenanigans? They didn't even roll for turn 6? Booooooooo! Weak sauce!
It doesn't take CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED! to see where things would have gone, and I don't even really know who the feth Stelek is.
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Post by: Dashofpepper
I still need to write my battle report for this (I'm not home yet - been on the road for 11 hours and change, and still an hour away from getting back to the home front.
Pregame, while discussing terrain, Stelek and I agreed that the middle piece of terrain (a bastion) was impassable and BLOS. Also that the top left and bottom right solid "fuel tank / dumpster" type objects were impassable. Some point during deployment (I don't remember) someone said, "I thought there was no impassable terrain?" Personally, I didn't read the Nova FAQ. :( I called Mike over, who clarified that it was not impassable, just BLOS.
To my understanding, there are two kinds of buildings in 40k: The kind with armor values that you get into and have to wreck in order to get through, and ruins - the kind that you drive through. Since the bastion in the middle was declared to be non-impassable but still BLOS, I presumed it was a solid-walled ruin; I've never seen a non AV building that you couldn't drive through / move through.
I lined up directly behind it; whichever side Stelek was going to put his long fangs on, I was going to move around one way or the other to deny his lascannons / missile launchers good vantage points. When Mike made the call, I decided instead that I was just going to drive straight ahead through it.
His scouts that infiltrated 12-13" away behind the building still got to fire their melta at me (6" range)nd caused a weapon destroyed result on Ghazghkull's wagon. He wanted to shoot them at the KFF wagon (which to my understanding was invisible). I offered him the opportunity to switch the weapon destroyed result to the KFF wagon, but he declined.
It *was* a close game. It was my first Ork game in a while; I'm a Dark Eldar player, and have been for 6 months, only breaking out Orks for 'Ard Boyz because DE don't scale to 2500 points.
It *was* also a friendly game. Some of the stuff on Friday night I wouldn't allow during a tournament game where more than pride is at stake. For example: Turn4, Stelek got his scouts into my rear. Then he forgot about them. He did all his shooting, assaults, we started my turn, I was in the middle of my movement phase and he says, "Oh, forgot my scouts, we need to do those." In a tournament game I say "Uh, its my turn. I'm in the middle of it. Sorry....." In this game, I said, "Alright Stelek, but know that you won't get to rewind turns tomorrow."
Probably cost me the game. =p His scouts would have eaten shooting from gretchin and two Loota units with no armor and no cover saves from the Lootas he was about to assault. Instead, he assaulted the gretchin, killed them, consolidated into cover, and subsequently passed like 7 4+ cover saves without a single failure; it was spectacularly good rolling. 
But that was the point - it was a friendly game. Should I have denied him that kind of stuff? The tournament gamer in me says yes. The sporting guy who likes to drink and laugh during games says no.
My pride will recover.
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Post by: Jackal
and I don't even really know who the feth Stelek
Google-fu helps
google "yes the truth hurts"
quick summary: Stelek makes some pretty nasty lists that work very well, its a shame though that he isnt the most polite of people, and is somewhat stubborn once his mind is made up.
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Post by: Monster Rain
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:and I don't even really know who the feth Stelek
Google-fu helps
google "yes the truth hurts"
quick summary: Stelek makes some pretty nasty lists that work very well, its a shame though that he isnt the most polite of people, and is somewhat stubborn once his mind is made up.
Oh, since I started frequenting Dakka I have a cursory knowledge of YTTH, but I wouldn't call myself a subscriber. Forgive my hyperbole.
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Post by: Jackal
No probs 
I check it now and then to see what stelek has to say.
Quite alot of it is worth reading now and then.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:He may not be here, but rule #1 is.
Thanks, and on that note, I'm out of the thread.
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Post by: Dashofpepper
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Love the way people bash stelek when he cant reply.
dont get me wrong, ive had tons of arguments with him and still dislike him, but you would think people had enough decensy to leave out the snide remarks and comment on the topic.
Speaking of which, seemed like a decent batrep, just a shame it was missing pics.
Also, could have, would have, should have.
No one knows what roll a dice will play at, so no point guessing.
I have ridiculous numbers of pictures. Also part of why our game took a long time.
I just need to get HOME....get DINNER....relax....and get to the batrep. 45 minutes from home after 11.5 hours on the road.
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Post by: loki old fart
1) Dash plays well. I have seen many of you play over the years and I don't say that about just anyone.
2) I setup a defense predicated on the huge middle building being impassable. This was changed AFTER my setup was complete. That effectively ruined my deployment, which is where you win or lose much of 40k.
3) I countered this 'oopsie' as best I could, by assuming I could 'see' the middle battlewagon. I planned to blow up the left and central battlewagons and entice Ghazghull and his Burna boy filled wagon to trundle forward into my revised trap, as did happen. AFTER I moved much of my mobile elements into position (exposing them to attack by Orks) Dash told me something astonishing. His central Battlewagon was inside the complete LOS blocking building not on it as everyone else I know plays. But this is a friendly game. Was starting to remind me of my fun game against Marc Parker. If its a friendly game you should have nothing to prove and you should play fairly. Dash was certainly not cheating or out to get me like Parker was, but Dash has a level of skill most do not. I felt pressure and I normally don't. I certainly never did against Parker, that's for sure. Nobody ever seemed to pick up on my utter disdain. Maybe the gak talkers there remember and that's why they avoided NOVA. Hard to say but three "crowds" were spectacularly absent. Yet the competition was fierce. Funny that. Anyway so back to my second problem--if Dashes central battlewagon is inside a building, as he needed it to be....how could I stop it? Answer is I couldn't. All of my melta was out of position, forced to fire at impossible targets. Which is what Work armies NEED. They got what they needed--but Dash needs more experience against high calibre players. With loss, comes retrospection. Never losing teaches you nothing. With a more balanced list Dash could have won--or with effective tactics learned from losses...if he had retreated after turn three he could have safely sat there and won. He instead attacked, and it cost him. Which brings me to the final point...
4) I have no idea who mentioned the math but I had more than +250 points over Dash. He lost the win on objectives by not knowing other Codices like he should, and he lost the VP battle when he pushed too far with too little.
In the end, this game has no real meaning and if not for the two 'oopsies' which blew not one but TWO of my game plans this game would not have taken the course it did. I might have done better OR worse. No way to know.
What does matter is Dash played well. Orks still need a new Codex. And I recovered from two major fethups of my game and still won.
And while it was incredibly frustrating to have my positions yanked out from under me AFTER I had already committed to them...
Remember this much: I blew that first battlewagon no problem. That second one had triple the amount of meltas aimed at it but survived due to the 'oopsie'. Of course it could have survived anyway, but how can anyone ever know?
So why am I not mad about it? Frustrated yes but mad, no. Because I made an assumption that Dash was as experienced and rules guru-ish as I. He is not. That's not a knock on him, I assumed and that's what I get for doing so.
Btw, Mike announced that rule info on riding on TOP OF TERRAIN at the start of the tournament so no one else would have to deal with it.
Copied and pasted from ytth
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Post by: Jackal
Dash, you dont need food, drink, sleep or R&R.
You need pics mate
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Post by: Twalks
Agreed on the pics.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Dashofpepper wrote:
It *was* also a friendly game. Some of the stuff on Friday night I wouldn't allow during a tournament game where more than pride is at stake. For example: Turn4, Stelek got his scouts into my rear. Then he forgot about them. He did all his shooting, assaults, we started my turn, I was in the middle of my movement phase and he says, "Oh, forgot my scouts, we need to do those." In a tournament game I say "Uh, its my turn. I'm in the middle of it. Sorry....." In this game, I said, "Alright Stelek, but know that you won't get to rewind turns tomorrow."
Probably cost me the game. =p His scouts would have eaten shooting from gretchin and two Loota units with no armor and no cover saves from the Lootas he was about to assault. Instead, he assaulted the gretchin, killed them, consolidated into cover, and subsequently passed like 7 4+ cover saves without a single failure; it was spectacularly good rolling.
But that was the point - it was a friendly game. Should I have denied him that kind of stuff? The tournament gamer in me says yes. The sporting guy who likes to drink and laugh during games says no.
My pride will recover.
Well, that's rather striking. First, from what I had read it very likely did cost you the game. Second, it speaks volumes about your character that you allowed someone to rewind to their turn after you had started moving. I expect that from friends when we play weekends but would never expect anyone to be so generous at a tournament (Especially considering the....unfriendly banter you two had prior to the event).
Good on you dude!
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
AgeOfEgos wrote:Dashofpepper wrote:
It *was* also a friendly game. Some of the stuff on Friday night I wouldn't allow during a tournament game where more than pride is at stake. For example: Turn4, Stelek got his scouts into my rear. Then he forgot about them. He did all his shooting, assaults, we started my turn, I was in the middle of my movement phase and he says, "Oh, forgot my scouts, we need to do those." In a tournament game I say "Uh, its my turn. I'm in the middle of it. Sorry....." In this game, I said, "Alright Stelek, but know that you won't get to rewind turns tomorrow."
Probably cost me the game. =p His scouts would have eaten shooting from gretchin and two Loota units with no armor and no cover saves from the Lootas he was about to assault. Instead, he assaulted the gretchin, killed them, consolidated into cover, and subsequently passed like 7 4+ cover saves without a single failure; it was spectacularly good rolling.
But that was the point - it was a friendly game. Should I have denied him that kind of stuff? The tournament gamer in me says yes. The sporting guy who likes to drink and laugh during games says no.
My pride will recover.
Well, that's rather striking. First, from what I had read it very likely did cost you the game. Second, it speaks volumes about your character that you allowed someone to rewind to their turn after you had started moving. I expect that from friends when we play weekends but would never expect anyone to be so generous at a tournament (Especially considering the....unfriendly banter you two had prior to the event).
Good on you dude!
Shhh....according to the internet, I'm a a mean, WAAC, condescending, rub-it-in-your-face jerkoff.
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Post by: helgrenze
Waiting on Dash's batrep before commenting. I want to see both perspectives.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Not to de-rail the thread: Dash, is he as abrasive in person as on the net, or is that a net front he puts on?
Not trying to start an argument, just wondering in case I ever meet him(highly unlikely as Adepticon is the only national level event I attend and we all know his feelings on that).
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Post by: Dashofpepper
Platuan4th wrote:Not to de-rail the thread: Dash, is he as abrasive in person as on the net, or is that a net front he puts on?
Not trying to start an argument, just wondering in case I ever meet him(highly unlikely as Adepticon is the only national level event I attend and we all know his feelings on that).
I don't think that my personal feelings would contribute to anything, but I will note that in his post game interview he said something along the lines of, "Well, I realize that I was kind of a jackass and here's why....<insert his frustration with terrain judgment>."
When he's not talking about 40k, he's quite pleasant to talk to. I think he posted in his blog that he was anticipating that I was going to be a veteran seasoned gamer like himself, and I'm not (and I'm not). He exhibited some frustration with my lack of knowledge of his codex; I make up for what I don't know with a *lot* of questions - there was a point where he said, "I'm not going to answer that, you should know that" about his codex. I tried keeping him friendly.
I think if he were to have a game that wasn't in spotlights that everyone on the internet was watching and rabbling about for one or the other of us to get beaten on, he'd have been much different.
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Post by: Grimgob
when someone does not know your codex and you keep asking alot of questions it can be really bothersome and distracting to the game. He should have just given you his codex and said "look up what ever you need to, I'm tring to concentrate". This does not lend credibility to your status as one of the best 40k players.
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Post by: Smurfy
I don't want to munch on you Dash, but to help people in general:
Know Your Foe, read up on their tactics, codexes, etc. to get better. It might be annoying to ask so many questions at first, but once you get a hold of the Codexes info for various armies, you can play that much better as you know what to expect.
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Post by: Karon
So it was a tie, yeah?
I don't think winning by 5 or so victory points is really a win, closer to a draw than anything.
I just hope Stelek learned a bit more about Dash, and doesn't play Dash off as a jersey shore type of douche.
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Post by: Pvt. Jet
Good Game!
Regardless of the players, regardless of outside arguments... I gotta give a lot of respect for this match. From what I was able to read there was a lot of very sharp play.
One note: If I was there and I had not been told that terrain thing would put vehicles on tops of buildings, I would imagine driving inside them as well. Makes more sense from a realism perspective. As I wasn't there I can't comment, however.
This thread has been.... decently civil I suppose. Better than I expected. Keep it up Dakka. Make my choice of tactics sites woth it.
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Post by: Eidolon
Deadshane1 wrote:Stelek's not infallible/Human? Whodathunkit? (though he himself was prolly surprised)
He lost a game while remaining on top of the heap. Like MVBrandt essentaially said, another GOOD player beat him.
So what?
Losing to nobody but the guy who went 6-0 at a 90 person event is nothing but bragging rights, good job for Stelek. Im glad he came out of his Mom's basement and proved he knows what he is doing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Snikkyd wrote:Sidstyler wrote:I don't know why it matters. Saying "Orks suck" isn't the same as saying "Everyone that plays Orks sucks". A good player can take a sub-par codex and do pretty good with it, which Dash demonstrated at Nova.
Indeed, if you're a good player and do pretty good with Orks then why do you give a gak what "tier" some guy on the internet ranks them at?
I agree, and thats why he should say "Orks aren't competitive" if thats what he thinks, instead of "Orks suck" because thats what he come across as saying, that everything about them is bad.
Also Nash, I don't think Stelek changed his opinion on Orks, but he did seem to think they can still do well. Sometimes I don't really understand him, he annoys people by saying that their army sucks, then says that any army can win with a good player. No need to questin his motives I guess, just believe what you want to believe.
I disagree with Stelek on the ork ratings, I put them right below ba/wolves and right next to guard. As for your other comments.
'sometimes he annoys people by saying their army sucks'
Hell I have been told by lots of people on here and other forums my nid and eldar army lists suck. I could care less. If some guy on the internet telling you 'your army sucks' is annoying you should man up. Why would you dislike someone because they dislike your army.
'any army can win with a good player'
Oh man, I bet that was a huge revelation for him.
Stelek has been nothing but gracious to his opponents. He said Tony just outplayed him, and I do believe he told Dash if he had been running a better army he (stelek) would have lost. Like I said, I disagree that orks suck, but if big bad Stelek fits your definition of a douche bag you need to rethink some stuff.
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Post by: akira5665
I would loved to have watched that game.
DoP and Stelek would be awesome dudes to chat to...
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Post by: Dashofpepper
Grimgob wrote:when someone does not know your codex and you keep asking alot of questions it can be really bothersome and distracting to the game. He should have just given you his codex and said "look up what ever you need to, I'm tring to concentrate". This does not lend credibility to your status as one of the best 40k players.
The only claim I've ever made is to know Orks very well. And I do. My Dark Eldar tournament record is just as good and better than my Ork record (and at harder events too!) but the only advice I've EVER dispensed about Dark Eldar is to look up Thor665, or Clthomps, who are the true Dark Eldar tacticians.
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Post by: Grimgob
I was commenting on yours and steleks game, about how frustrating it can be sometimes when the person your playing doesnt have a good grasp of at least the popular codexes at a competitive tourny.
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Post by: Nurglitch
I'd like to say I'm pretty pleased with the way the game played out. I am surprised it went so slowly, but as DashofPepper has explained, he was out of practice with his Orks and I'm sure they were measuring all the distances carefully for each model.
Before DashofPepper quit posting battle-reports, it had seemed to me that he was a competent player who was successful against incompetent players, and that when he ran into a series of ties at the last 'Ardboyz event it was because he was finally playing non-clueless players. His game against Stelek proved to me that he can do well against players that don't make elementary mistakes, although I still find it interesting that he had to have so much of Codex: Space Wolf explained to him. I say interesting as it's currently inconclusive what such incomplete knowledge of the rules says about a successful competitor such as him.
I don't think it was unreasonable of Stelek to expect him to know the book cover-to-cover, and I'm certainly surprised by the news that he didn't. Again, this is inconclusive regarding what it means about him as a player and the state of the game, but interesting because of what it might suggest. Watching the videos it was nice to see DashofPepper coming off as a nice guy. From my perspective, and remember this is just a perspective limited to the video, it seemed like he was going out of his way to make Stelek comfortable, and that this did not seem to be reciporicated, which speaks to his character.
With regards to Stelek, I was surprised when I watched the video, having read his blog (including its specific personal attacks on me), his posts on Dakka, and heard his guest-spots on various pod-casts: it's always interesting to put a face to a voice and for a while I was surprised by the dissonance between the person I had grown to loathe and the regular game-store joe I saw in the video. However, I did notice him slip into familiar territory when interviewed about other 'challenge' type games he had played, complete with swearing, and I found it interesting that he seemed to sit and brood for most of the game (at least when the camera was on him!). Maybe he was doing complex calculations in his head, I don't know.
I certainly found it interesting that he considered the quantum entanglement of Battlewagon and Bastion early in the game to be reportedly "bullsh*t". It doesn't speak volumes about his character but there's some minor insight. Likewise the reports from DashofPepper that he got impatient with DashofPepper's incomplete knowledge of Codex: Space Wolf. It seems to me that when he's feeling threatened or put upon we get the Stelek of myth and legend, the internet tough guy, but otherwise we get something that every games store seems to have, the slightly portly guy that's really into the game and who plays the game rather than playing with his opponent.
I believe that Warhammer 40k is a co-operative game, where players are constantly negotiating within the framework of the rules to make sure that they're both playing the same game. I haven't faced a situation like the quantum entanglement mentioned earlier in a long while because I learned to play the game as a constant discussion where players interacted ("If I move into this terrain, do you agree that you'll have line of sight, because if you do, then I don't want to make that move. Where can I move this to keep it out of line of sight?") Mind you, if my experience on Dakka Dakka is any indication, I have a very unique and individual experience of Warhammer 40k that I share with only a few individuals that I have played as part of the Rogue Battalion in Halifax, a couple of Canadian Grand Tournaments, and my gaming group (to dignify it as something more than friends playing together) in Toronto.
Of the two, DashofPepper seems like the guy I would like to game with, because he seems like he knows that a game of Warhammer 40k is something the players create together, playing with each other rather than against each other. Stelek, for all that he managed to sublimate his distateful internet persona, doesn't seem to get that he's playing with someone, and that even competing against someone the point of the game is to co-operate to ensure an even competition and to enrich the experience. It's a subtle difference, but it's interesting to see it come across just from a few minutes of video and interview. I could be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong and Andrew Sutton is just another game-store misanthrope that's a little rough around the edges, but so far these are my conclusions and I'm looking forward to seeing them change and develop.
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Post by: Dashofpepper
Nurglitch wrote:
Before DashofPepper quit posting battle-reports, it had seemed to me that he was a competent player who was successful against incompetent players, and that when he ran into a series of ties at the last 'Ardboyz event
Actually, out of the 6 rounds of 'Ard Boyz I was in, I had 5 full point massacres and a single massacred - on table #1 playing for a 2500 point army. =p
The tournament where I got a series of ties was a random RTT somewhere not local to me that had....about 16 players in it if I remember correctly. Maybe less; its fuzzy now.
Also, kind words coming from you - they're appreciated!
Anyway, my batrep is up; link is in my signature.
23749
Post by: DooDoo
Dash,
You played a great game and did it with class. What more could people want?
32820
Post by: maki0423
Congrats to both Dash and Stelek for a great, albeit, long game on Friday night.
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
maki0423 wrote:Congrats to both Dash and Stelek for a great, albeit, long game on Friday night.
I addressed that in my battle report.
Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.
25220
Post by: WarOne
Dashofpepper wrote:
Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.
And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
WarOne wrote:Dashofpepper wrote:
Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.
And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?
Yes, a pink one with WBB and gigantic pyramid shaped battlewagons.
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Post by: Bunker
Dashofpepper wrote:WarOne wrote:Dashofpepper wrote:
Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.
And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?
Yes, a pink one with WBB and gigantic pyramid shaped battlewagons.
I approve of this paintscheme
25220
Post by: WarOne
In no way do those Necrons represent the views of the other Necrons out there.
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Post by: Kurgash
Was an interesting read, that one very impressive deff-rolla tank shock piqued my interest and was nice to see two gents slugging it out through the use of plastic.
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Post by: tealzooka
Bunker that army is some guy making his little girl very happy or some very twisted freak like Bufflo Bill.
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Post by: Dashofpepper
tealzooka wrote:Bunker that army is some guy making his little girl very happy or some very twisted freak like Bufflo Bill.
That's actually Alex Fennel, multiple GT winner and all around fun Brit. He's "The Everliving" here on Dakka. He also has Pink Chaos marines, and probably enjoys playing pink armies for the same reason I do. This is a picture I took of his Chaos Marines at the SVDM GT.
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Post by: Bunker
Pink armies are a surefire way to throw an opponent off.
I can say with absolute certainty that if I was across the table from a Hello Kitty Marine army or a couple Unyuufexes, I'd be too busy laughing/asking to look at models to care how the match turned out.
Coincidentally, my fiance assures me that a pink army is the only way to even get her to think about the hobby. This is also the same girl that thinks that the zombies in Left 4 Dead are "adorable". Good thing for me she has scrapbooking.
60
Post by: yakface
Quite a few posts have been removed and/or edited in an attempt to keep this thread on-topic...which is to discuss the game played between Dash and Stelek at NOVA.
Anyone who wants to continue to take the discussion somewhere else, please be warned that doing so will result in disciplinary action.
Thank you for your cooperation.
5580
Post by: Eidolon
Bunker wrote:
Dashofpepper wrote:WarOne wrote:Dashofpepper wrote:
Between taking pictures, getting questions answered, interviews, and the fact that I'm rusty at Orks on the table (been playing DE for six months with the exception of 'Ard Boyz)....I was breaking back into stride.
And maybe we will see a different kind of WaaaaghhH! in the future?
Yes, a pink one with WBB and gigantic pyramid shaped battlewagons.
I approve of this paintscheme
I played on a table next to this army at adepticon, its very very cool.
Pink armies are boss, I run purple nids and pink/silver mechdar, its great fun.
hey dash, assuming points are accounted for do you feel long fangs or lootas are the better shooty unit?
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Post by: stormboy97
Good tournament Justin, im glad to see another person consistently do well with ORKS. The green boggie men have gained much with you in the fold.
I look forward to playing your orks in some tournament in the future.
Anyone who says orks are not a top tier army has not bumped into one of the top ork players
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Post by: MVBrandt
Fantasy Results:
Fantasy Competitive: http://novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fantasy-Competitive.pdf
Fantasy Renaissance: http://novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Fantasy-Ren.pdf
Competitive final between Nicholas Walters and Mark Aksel, Mark won (both Dwarves)
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Post by: Primarch
The RTT was down here in Atlanta. But that means you had played your Orks at least once in the past few months....
Clay
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Post by: Tyron
Can someone link me to the pod cast with Stelek? Thanks!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone???
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Post by: T2-Keks
i have to say i like the outcome of this match.
i am happy to see that stelek really seems to be a good player and not just a guy with a big mouth. i frequently have a look at his blog, reading about armylists and tactics, ignoring the ranting and swearing. yes, the way he presents his stuff is a bit special but so what? i have no problem to filter and process the information provided and think about it for myself. just don't look at his blog as "the law" or something. just consider it as ideas and views and its fine.
i agree with him that orks have issues. another good article about this is at kirby's 3++ blog. i play orks myself and well... the army has its issues but is no utter crap.
that brings me to the other half of why i like the outcome:
dash showed that he really is a good ork general that plays his list well although it doesn't seem to look optimal to lots of internet folks.
so glückwunsch to both of you, dash and stelek!
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Post by: MVBrandt
My impression of the game was that both players could have done some things more ideal, but that both players were clearly "good" at what they were doing.
Dash also operates with far and away NOT the best Ork list, but makes good things happen with it due to his familiarity.
There are certain ork builds that I'd take up against any army out there any day of the week; but it wasn't really my place to try and participate in proving a point at my own event.
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