Just curious, I mean I've heard excuses from them being too shiny to trying to be the ultimate good guys.

If they are too shiny? What about the Eldar?

If they are too good? Have you not read the books? Their government is pretty corrupt, and there is a total evil *coughchaoscough* why not have a total good?

I think alot of people dislike Tau because they think that they appeal to the anime fans which dosen't really fit with the 40k setting. They also associate them with communism due to their practices, and in the same light the Imperium could be seen as a ignorant tyranical body. But at the same time there are always people who will always hate a certain army for certain reasons. Maybe they don't see any point in the army existing or they think it is useless and not worth even owning. Or maybe they don't like the way the army looks.

I personally like Tau, not for the anime link but purely for 1 the oppurtunity of having a military organisation comprised of multiple alien races. It's the whole Covenant aspect of it that I like and it gives someone like me alot of conversion opportunities. And 2 the simple asian feel to the army, in the DoW game series when Broadsides use their stabilization systems I thought it was genious that they looked like sumo wrestlers.

In the end I think it comes down to personal taste and opinion. Someone who prefers one thing isn't going to like another.

Note: Nothing I said was ment to be offensive to anyone and if it came across as such I apologise. I am a fan of almost every faction in the 40k universe (except Slaanesh and Dark Eldar, sorry just plain out don't like them ).

Because people think Tau drew inspiration from anime.

And such heresy is polluting the epic grim darkness of what is 40K

There are no good guys in the grimdarkness of the far future.

But I don't hate Tau...I just hate alot of the people that they draw into the Hobby. I mean I like Anime as much as the next guy...but when I see kids with Yugioh t-shirts buying a pack of Broadsides, I die a little inside.

I guess it's the whole anime thing.

Apparently a wargamer to is too cool to associate with anything "Anime-kiddy" related. Because obviously our RAR MEAN KILL toy soldiers are so much more mature and seriouz than the anime good guy toy soldiers.

I actually like the Tau, and am considering starting an army of them in the future.

I think they fit in fine. The anime-inspired look is a bit different, but 40k has always drawn (*cough*stolen*cough*) from many different sci-fi and other sources of inspriration.

I think those who dislike them can't reconcile the stylistic difference. Also I think GW was initially a bit subtle about the oppressive/imperialist dimension to the Tau culture, so fans who didn't read closely and/or were unfamiliar with classic fascist/communist (Stalin, Mao, etc.) propaganda thought they were being put forward as good guys.

Moving thread to 40K Discussions.

eNvY wrote:I guess it's the whole anime thing.

Apparently a wargamer to is too cool to associate with anything "Anime-kiddy" related. Because obviously our RAR MEAN KILL toy soldiers are so much more mature and seriouz than the anime good guy toy soldiers.

I think the Tau fit in the universe, but they seem kind of shoved in rather than having a genuine stake or higher purpose in the 40k universe's grand scheme. Again, I'm a wargamer, but I love Anime. (Gurren Lagann? Cowboy Bebop? Naruto? Ghost in the Shell? Yes please.) I'm just not sure the Tau really have much of an impact in the 40k universe other than being there to appeal to Anime fans.

But conversely, you could say the same thing about Necrons appealing to Terminator fans. Or Tyranids appealing to Alien fans. Though I think the Tau fall into a different category as the two latter races actually appear to be genuinely high-stake powers in the universe. Tau just seem kinda...there.

Because they are Xenos scum and because they can outshoot my guard army everytime!

I know a few tau players, and tau can be pretty decent despite being soft.

Jihadnik wrote:Because they are Xenos scum and because they can outshoot my guard army everytime!

Tau? outshoot guard?

Are you running an assault guard army or something?

They're pretentious, and their units are obnoxious to fight against. That and there is a lot of leftover hate from 4th ed when tau suits could always shoot without getting shot back at due to MSM and the old cover rules, and the only way to counter it was with transports, which were always instantly liquefied by the seemingly endless number of railguns they could bring. Even if they didn't bring lots of suits, they could still bring AV13 SMF, which made them invincible if the vehicles so much as batted an eyelash.

They were kind of cheesy back then. People have long memories...

...that and yeah, the mecha is kind of lame.

I do collect Tau, I started collecting them not beacuse I thought they looked like Anime charicters but because I thought they looked like the Art Work of Roger Dean

Exibit A:


Obliterator 1988

Not that close I hear you say. I present exibit B.


Brataccas 1986

Also a possable view of the Planet Vespid? Albeit as slightly more sedated version.





I also like them as they are (im my mind at least) the 40K equivelent of WFB Dogs of War. A main bulk force with some more colourful specialist units thrown in. 40K(Tau with Kroot, Nicassar, Vespid, Demiurg, humans, Hrenian Light Infantry and Morralian Deathsworn) Warhammer fantasy (Humans with Dwarfs, Halflings, elves, ogers hobgoblins etc, etc).

I suppose that most people tend to dislike shooty armies and Tau are the most shooty army out there.

Darth Bob wrote:...Tau just seem kinda...there.

well even in the fluff the Tau are Literally just starting off in the 40000th millenium, if you compared the "occupied sectors" map thats (iirc) within every codex's fluff section, you'll see Tau holding like a faction of a percent of the galaxy, while all the big leaguer's getting like 10% of the pie

Jihadnik wrote:Because they are Xenos scum and because they can outshoot my guard army everytime!

*MARKERLIGHT ACTIVATED. SEEKER MISSILE LAUNCHED*

Ailaros wrote:...They were kind of cheesy back then....

so how are we now? :p

Nah, I just mean thier basic ranges are a bit longer!

Assault guard...there's a scary thought!

Advance, and die together!!!

roflmao, i would love to field an assault Tau army against assault Iggy.

No, i dont use Kroots or Vespids, all Tau in my Army

Oh man, that sounds even more annoying. I learned to play much better by having to fight an army that could shoot as well as I could!

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:I think alot of people dislike Tau because they think that they appeal to the anime fans which dosen't really fit with the 40k setting. They also associate them with communism due to their practices, and in the same light the Imperium could be seen as a ignorant tyranical body. But at the same time there are always people who will always hate a certain army for certain reasons. Maybe they don't see any point in the army existing or they think it is useless and not worth even owning. Or maybe they don't like the way the army looks.

I personally like Tau, not for the anime link but purely for 1 the oppurtunity of having a military organisation comprised of multiple alien races. It's the whole Covenant aspect of it that I like and it gives someone like me alot of conversion opportunities. And 2 the simple asian feel to the army, in the DoW game series when Broadsides use their stabilization systems I thought it was genious that they looked like sumo wrestlers.

In the end I think it comes down to personal taste and opinion. Someone who prefers one thing isn't going to like another.

Note: Nothing I said was ment to be offensive to anyone and if it came across as such I apologise. I am a fan of almost every faction in the 40k universe (except Slaanesh and Dark Eldar, sorry just plain out don't like them ).

Tau were in DoW?

TheBlackVanguard wrote:

Tau were in DoW?

in one, not two

Anime space communists.

/thread

Because the only group player refuses to learn to play them well, so it turns into an arm sweep everytime... or he put no terrain on the board and says 'what'.

because str 10 rail guns make my monolith sad :(. They basically break the meta since they have so much anti tank that they can really put the hurt on mechanized armies.

Everyone says that they're underpowered... but I just don't see it.

I actually like Tau... just not playing against them.

Personally, I also don't get the berserk rage when anything Tau related is mentioned. Esp. why so many people feel the urge to invent, claim and post obvious bull droppings that can't survive any closer scrutiny. It seems like a reflex that anything people hate is projected on this race ("Damn liberal Hindu anime commie nazis led by a pope, curse those peace loving fish-cow-men doing massacres and genocides all the time"). And this reflex is immune to the presentation of facts and reasoning unfortunately. Seems like "Tau" is a secret trigger word from a global mass hypnotisation that I missed somehow.

The Tau are fine, but they have a reputation as a tough army to play so most new players stick to imperial armies or one of the more straight forward xenos options. I like them well enough. There is some good 40k Black Library fiction about the Tau interacting with various imperial factions. I forget the book....

I like them and having borrowed a (admitadly bad build) Tau army for a battle (we swapped ends as it were) I was shown how hard it was to play them well. Or maybe I just can't use Tau /shrug.

Tau don't have any characters in the fluff that pack anything memorable. O'shava rebelled against the Tau Empire, but he's just kind of there not doing anything. The Space Pope hasn't even been mentioned in official fluff outside the codex. Shadowsun just has guns for hands.

In the 40k verse, in the official fluff, the Tau haven't really done anything noteworthy. Conquered worlds sure, but every other race is doing that...

I dislike the Tau because they seem quite weak in fluff and have no real impact on the galaxy at large. Oh sure, their little empire is growing pretty fast, but even after three "major" expansions, they're still squatting in an incredibly tiny chunk of space. There's scattered references and mention of numerous other tiny alien empires of no consequence throughout the background and I just see the Tau on the same level.

I don't hate them as such, I just don't have any interest in them. I suppose it's their lack of particularly interesting fluff.

The Tau aren't grimdark enough. To rectify this error i propose some changes...

Railguns become SKULLGUNS
Farsight becomes a Tau-Daemon hybrid who is made of SKULLS
The Tau no longer incorporate new races into their culture, they just harvest their SKULLS in huge SKULLSHAPED deathcamps
to show everyone how grimdark they are.

Hrm, any other ideas how to turn the Tau into a "proper" 40k race?

KingDeath wrote:The Tau aren't grimdark enough. To rectify this error i propose some changes...

Railguns become SKULLGUNS
Farsight becomes a Tau-Daemon hybrid who is made of SKULLS
The Tau no longer incorporate new races into their culture, they just harvest their SKULLS in huge SKULLSHAPED deathcamps
to show everyone how grimdark they are.

Hrm, any other ideas how to turn the Tau into a "proper" 40k race?

More personality. They tend to blend together, there's no way to have a good chat with any of them.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

KingDeath wrote:The Tau aren't grimdark enough. To rectify this error i propose some changes...

Railguns become SKULLGUNS
Farsight becomes a Tau-Daemon hybrid who is made of SKULLS
The Tau no longer incorporate new races into their culture, they just harvest their SKULLS in huge SKULLSHAPED deathcamps
to show everyone how grimdark they are.

Hrm, any other ideas how to turn the Tau into a "proper" 40k race?

More personality. They tend to blend together, there's no way to have a good chat with any of them.

You wish to chat with the alien, citizen? Please hand yourself over to the next Arbites patrol for immediate reeducation.

Three main reasons I see (and am hearing in this thread):

1) They're only there to draw anime fans into the game.

This may be true, and I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. I hate anime fans. No, not those of you who just simply enjoy anime, or feel that it's worth watching. You know who I'm talking about. Greasy kids with Dragonball Z t-shirts carrying a pack of Yu-Gi-Oh cards covered in plastic so as not to get their messy hand-grease on them, wearing Pikachu hats. Those idiots. I don't want them in my hobby.

2) They don't contribute to the 40k universe enough to matter.

This may be true currently, but couldn't the same be said in 3rd about Necrons and Tyranids? Couldn't the same be said about Genestealer Cults before Nids actually came into play as they are? They're a young race. Give them a chance to update for 5th edition before you make this claim.

3) They're not grimdark enough.

This is where I have to disagree. I absolutely love it (sincerely) when people are under the impression that since I play Tau, I play the good guys. I let them believe that. But look at the Tau. While they're less likely to kill you outright for being a filthy Xeno than the Imperium, look at how they let you into their club. They come along, decide you could be useful to them, present their terms (absolute unerring servitude or death) and let you decide what to do about it while you're sitting at the wrong end of an orbital bombardment. Then, when they DO let you into their club, they outfit your leaders with mind control helmets (Vespid), use you as bait in battle (Kroot) or happily sterilize you, put you in a concentration camp, then toss you out onto a border world with a blanket, a flashlight, and the clothes on your back and say, "Defend this planet. No, we're not coming back for you. Unless you fail. Then we'll kill you." (humans).

Furthermore, the only reason the concept of the "Greater Good" is so prevalent probably has something to do with the subtle mind-control devices created by the Ethereals. Not to mention that any Tau obeys any Ethereal... not out of loyalty, but due to pheromones that make any Tau purely submissive to any Ethereal. There are whispers that Farsight actually divorced himself from the Tau Empire when he learned about how the benevolent Ethereals were keeping order among their beloved subjects!

So let's take stock. We've got mind control, sterilization, concentration camps, "join us or die" imperialism, and more propaganda than you can shake a stick at.

Sounds pretty grimdark to me.

We hate tau? Since when? I seriously had no idea of this. I don't see anything wrong with tau except their small impact on the galaxy, which Games-Workshop will hopefully rectify in the next codex.

ChrisCP wrote:Because the only group player refuses to learn to play them well, so it turns into an arm sweep everytime... or he put no terrain on the board and says 'what'.

My friend plays Tau and EVERY time it comes to put terrain he puts "A giant cloud" on the middle of the field... I put a massive building right in the middle :p

The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

It would be better if all the Tau could do a little better in CC than just Oshavah... otherwise I might play them.

Apostle Pat wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

It would be better if all the Tau could do a little better in CC than just Oshavah... otherwise I might play them.

Maybe it's playing against the old 9 Rail Cannon lists a few times, but I have a lot of Respect for the army. If you can OMGWTFBBQPWN everything from your table edge the need for CC is abated a bit.

I don't mind the Tau that much but I wouldn't like to play them.
I don't really get all the hate directed toward the Tau in general.

Monster Rain wrote:

Apostle Pat wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

The Tau are fine. Mecha suits are awesome, now and forever.

It would be better if all the Tau could do a little better in CC than just Oshavah... otherwise I might play them.

Maybe it's playing against the old 9 Rail Cannon lists a few times, but I have a lot of Respect for the army. If you can OMGWTFBBQPWN everything from your table edge the need for CC is abated a bit.

Agreed... I think he my Tau friend fielded 9 RC I'd just say good game. he's only ever fielded 4 at the most and he mostly uses Oshavah and 9 crysis suits... ya know the Death Star lol... but LC Termies cut it to pieces.

The only beef I have with them is that to me that really really feel shoe horned into the fluff. Since they came in much later. Necrons came in at the same time but there story fights much much better while the tau doesnt fit as well.

But other then that I like them. I enjoy there look as its diffrent from everything else and unique.

Monster Rain wrote:The elitism... The "that kind of nerd isn't as cool as me, as my chosen time-wasting hobby is clearly superior" elitism is mind boggling.

If that's in response to my comment, then you've obviously never tried to conduct a quiet game of 40k in the same room as a Yu-Gi-Oh tournament consisting of thirty some odd screaming children (and manchildren).

It's not elitism, it's a lack of patience for and tolerance of extremely irritating behavior.

Tau are xeno anime scum. I don't like scum or anime. They should be erased from 40k.

Because GW attempted to make them morally "good".

Melissia wrote:Because GW attempted to make them morally "good".

I like the quotation marks there, M.

Melissia wrote:Because GW attempted to make them morally "good".

Except for the part where, for all intensive purposes, there are no good guys in the 40k universe. The Tau are hardly morally "good." They're about as "good" as an amaglamation of the Nazis and the Persian Empire from 300.


If the Tau are good guys, then so are the Imperium. I don't think GW had any intention of trying to make the Tau seem like "Good guys".

I had a tau army when they first came out....


hated them, then again I have always been a lover of cc. I did not make the change to ranged attack well.

I sold the army to expand my greenskins and been happy eversince.

Darth Bob wrote:Except for the part where, for all intensive purposes, there are no good guys in the 40k universe.

Yes, that IS exactly why Tau don't fit in.

Melissia wrote:

Darth Bob wrote:Except for the part where, for all intensive purposes, there are no good guys in the 40k universe.

Yes, that IS exactly why Tau don't fit in.

Um.

Have you not been paying attention?

Read my first post in this thread, then read the two sentences directly after the one you quoted in Darth Bob's post.

And you'll see that they do fit in for exactly this reason.

Yes, in their current incarnation they do, because there's hints of darker stuff in newer material. When they were originally put in, though, they were imagined to be an unambiguously good race.

I feel that Tau are boring. The don't have alot of fluff, they seem emotionless, no passion.

They have never been fleshed out in fluff, and seem just plain old boring.

Melissia wrote:Yes, in their current incarnation they do, because there's hints of darker stuff in newer material. When they were originally put in, though, they were imagined to be an unambiguously good race.

Fair enough.

So judge them based on what they are, not what they were at their conception.

I do, I was just saying why I think they are disliked. Personally I'm fine with the "hidden grimdark" in them as they are right now... actually I debated starting a Tau army... either them or Eldar after I finish bringing my Guard up to 2k.

Oh, well, fair enough.

KingDeath wrote:The Tau aren't grimdark enough. To rectify this error i propose some changes...
Hrm, any other ideas how to turn the Tau into a "proper" 40k race?

Clearly, until GW adds Chaos Tau with extra spiky bits, it is not possible to take them seriously as a major civilization.

I don't hate the Tau. I like having a lot of variety in my futuristic never-ending wars and I find 40K is best at that. However, if Tau were as popular as say Space Marines and everyone had Tau armies then it certainly wouldn't feel very 40Kish. At a glance it would seem like some sort of anime tabletop game. However, it isn't like that I I think they look good on the tabletop especially if you can get some of their cool alien allies in there.

Anyways, Space Marine haters sometimes call Space Marines the Mary Sues of Warhammer. I disagree with that. I would say The Tau are the Mary Sues because most of the rules that apply to this grim and dark universe simply don't seem to apply to the Tau. The two biggest are:

The Warp. The Immaterium is hell made manifest but also a neccessary evil for the rest of the Galaxy. No race wants anything to do with it but it's just needed for intergalactic travel and communication. Not for Tau though! Their Empire is conveniently "densely packed" and therefore they can just sort of skip along the warp. As for that psychics being dangerous but neccesary for intersteller communication problem? Well, we'll just ignore that.

The conudrum of governance in a very dangerous galaxy. How to balance the rule of law with freedom is the basis of much great fiction and of course real life discussion. In 40K the perceived monsters are under your bed are real but the absolute tyranny required to suppress them ends up creating the strife that creates those monsters. It's a never-ending dystopian cycle. Not for Tau though! They simply sprinkle magical leadership pixie dust on their subjects! The issues of civilization and interpersonal relationships that philosophes have pondered since time immemorable: Fixed! Fabulous!

SaintHazard wrote:3) They're not grimdark enough.

40k Players dont know what grim dark is till they've seen Berserk.

Which ironically is a manga / anime

@ KamikazeCanuck - You're right.

Instead of their oppressive, stark, imperialistic attitude being driven by the constant threat from beyond (the Warp) and the constant threat from within (heresy), it's driven by the fact that they're just plain bastards.

I posit that the Tau are grimdarker even than the Imperium because of this. At least the Imperium has an excuse for their attitude towards aliens - if they don't kill it, it could very well kill them.

The Tau know full well they could crush the entire Kroot civilization in a matter of years, and leave no trace they ever existed. Instead, they decide to use them as bait, so they can crush entire other civilizations.

God I love the Tau!

only tau that is interesting is only thanks to deamon weapon

BloodQuest wrote:Clearly, until GW adds Chaos Tau with extra spiky bits, it is not possible to take them seriously as a major civilization.

It has nothing to do with that. Rather, GW tried to make them, originally, unambiguously "good". And it just didn't fit.

They're better now than they used to be, but there's still some wallbanger stuff-- like being able to push back an entire splinter fleet without losing a single ship? Wait what?

Most of the people in my area hate tau because of the one guy who uses the kroot & suit tactic, and they all refuse to use flamers against it.
When i started (roughly 6 months after 5th ed), I decided that Farsight looked awesome and decided to theme an army around him. Since then, he has killed nearly every single other special character in the game somehow, and has only died once in close combat. However, when a group of 5 boyz shoots their sluggas at him, he dies like a little girl...

That being said, generally people dislike them for one of two reasons:
1) They're too nice/not grimdark/animehook/[insert other canon/niche reel]
2) They're too hard to play with/against because they require more than "put speehs murrenz in razorbacks, drive forward, shoot lots, have th/ss termies w/ vulkan assault out of LRC" or "Nob bikers'' or ''IG meltavets in vendettas"

That being said, the greater good was the beginning. The ethereals brought us together, but then were corrupted by their own arrogance. Now begins the campaigns of the fire caste. Now is the time of the Taun'Vior.

StarHunter25 wrote:
2) They're too hard to play with/against because they require more than "put speehs murrenz in razorbacks, drive forward, shoot lots, have th/ss termies w/ vulkan assault out of LRC"

I'd think that "shoot lots, then fail in CC" would be much easier to play...

I personally think tau is awesome. I haven't had a ton of experience with them but I love the look and the shootyness of the tau. Why does everything have to be grim dark in 40k? Mix it up a bit I say.

BossBig'un wrote:I feel that Tau are boring. The don't have alot of fluff, they seem emotionless, no passion.

They have never been fleshed out in fluff, and seem just plain old boring.

This is exactly how I feel. I see Tau, and I don't even think enough of them one way or the other for it to be evocative of emotion in general. I don't even consider their existence a real part of fluff or try to write battles with them into my army's fluff. If anything, it makes me more depressed than it does anything else, just because it feels like a game with zero interesting outcome. I've had games I'd describe with detail killing off the vile traitor guard, or the heretic space marines, or running off the remainder of the mysterious and vile Eldar from the battlefield, but when it's Tau time, it may as well just be a game of chess.

Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

I disagree that they're soft. Our Club's Static Tau Player is seldom beaten, and hasn't been since I joined the Club.

I don't hate Tau. I rather like them. 'Lack of Interesting Stuff', says the guy on Page 1? Really? Kroot and Vespid Allies, and all the Technology they have access to? And they're 'Lacking Interesting Stuff'? Wrong.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

Well you see it has to do with HEY LOOK OVER THERE IT'S MORGAN FREEMAN

*blackjack*

SaintHazard wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

Well you see it has to do with HEY LOOK OVER THERE IT'S MORGAN FREEMAN

*blackjack*

I don't know what that means but it sounds like "The Chewbacca Defense".

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

I don't know what that means but it sounds like "The Chewbacca Defense".

It would make sense if you looked... we swear.

Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this discussion? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this discussion! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a Tau player defending my favorite army, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're trying to decide if the Tau are grimdark enough, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this forum, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must agree that the Tau are awesome!

SaintHazard wrote:Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this discussion? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this discussion! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a Tau player defending my favorite army, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're trying to decide if the Tau are grimdark enough, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this forum, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must agree that the Tau are awesome!

My God! His arguement is unassailable! Infallible! I give up....

Darth Bob wrote:There are no good guys in the grimdarkness of the far future.

But I don't hate Tau...I just hate alot of the people that they draw into the Hobby. I mean I like Anime as much as the next guy...but when I see kids with Yugioh t-shirts buying a pack of Broadsides, I die a little inside.

I have felt such pain as well :(.

Darth Bob wrote:There are no good guys in the grimdarkness of the far future.

But I don't hate Tau...I just hate alot of the people that they draw into the Hobby. I mean I like Anime as much as the next guy...but when I see kids with Yugioh t-shirts buying a pack of Broadsides, I die a little inside.

But isn't that a good thing? 90% of those kids won't get around to assembling those broadsides, or if they do, will quit after a handful of games to pursue the next thing that catches their fleeting attention. Every broadside they buy provides more funds for GW to spend developing the real armies. I like to think the entire Tau empire is actually a Truman Show-esque TV show in the Imperium, where they laugh at the foolish aliens thinking they actually have a say in their survival. The various races involved gives it an MTV Real World feel to draw in younger audiences. The story arc where Farsight was caught in bed with a Kroot, and was lampooned so much by the Tau media that he fled the empire drew the highest ratings, like, ever! Or the episode where Shadowsun got totally wasted and was being so obnoxious that some random Earth caste guy ended up punching her in the face. Hilarious!

I find their lack of grimdarkness disturbing...

...and I wish GW would hire FW to make their battle suits from now on.

Well everyone so far has made "some" good points. But other than the Imperium, the Tau or the only other army that has a "stable" empire.
I mean, the Orks are fighting each other and everyone else, the Eldar are on there Craftworlds/ Giant ships, Necrons are underground, and Tyrainds are going OMNOMNOM, so Tau are the only stable empire.

and they do it all with cell phones!

Technically speaking there are other stable empires, human and xeno, we just don't know that much about them.

My problems with Tau with a bit of explanation:

1. Too anime.
WAIT. I don't hate anime. As St. Hazard said, I actually hate those crazy anime fanbois (or girls). But Tau (sadly enough) seem to attract them with their vague anime appeal.
2. Lack of Fluff
They have very little. Other books have almost nothing on them. I love fluff so this is a problem... What little fluff they have isn't even that interesting to be honest.
3. Not grimdark?
Yes Tau are starting to come into their grimdarkness now and I give them props for that, but until comparatively recently they were (as melissia said) the good guys.
4. anime fan (apparently this word is censored? really?) space communists in space.
Self-explanatory.
5. Codex
People constantly complain that Tau need an update. Did you forget 'crons? DE? BTs? Poor critters are stuck in the way back when times... And Tau are still strong, believe me or not.
6. Looks
Overall they don't look great to me. I'm sure many people like their stuff, but I personally don't. Just sayin'.

Like I said, my opinions.

We are not in need of a codex update, while some of our equipment and options are out of date there are things i may lose in an update that i wish to cling to

namely, enough STR 10 AP 1 shots and Fast-Melta Skimmers to make mecha armies cry

Tau are not just coming into their grimdarkness...

As I said before, they're beginning to become the most grimdark ever.

I feel that Space Pope will quickly reveal himself to be a true Space Stalin, Space Caligula, and Space Idi Amin all rolled into one.

And I like it!

SaintHazard wrote:Tau are not just coming into their grimdarkness...

As I said before, they're beginning to become the most grimdark ever.

I feel that Space Pope will quickly reveal himself to be a true Space Stalin, Space Caligula, and Space Idi Amin all rolled into one.

And I like it!

I think that the skull structure of the Ethereals look disturbingly Necron-like.

I'm hoping that the Deceiver has pulled a huge fast one.

Dey krump real good, so I like em fine

I don't mind them really, and it's interesting to have a race with a much different aesthetic and outlook than any other races. I'm not crazy about them though. More diverse xeno races is generally a good thing though, and I think the whole "alliance" they've got with alien races could make for a much more interesting army than what we have now.

Maelstrom808 wrote:I find their lack of grimdarkness disturbing...

...and I wish GW would hire FW to make their battle suits from now on.

You do see the irony behind this right xD

Monster Rain wrote:I think that the skull structure of the Ethereals look disturbingly Necron-like.

I'm hoping that the Deceiver has pulled a huge fast one.

I wouldn't be surprised. The Deceiver or one of his buddies seem to be the mastermind behind everything that ever happens ever these days.

I don't mind Tau. Thier tanks are pretty cool and battle suits look ok but they do have a bit of anime insperation in thier design.

So long as I'm playing with people who are serious of playing 40k and not just to getting the figures because they look like anime characters I don't mind Tau.

Most people hate tau due to two different things:

They say it attracts anime fans

They think the tau are communists.


Personally, I choose tau since they were are ranged race and NOT imperial guard.


Also, tau are not communist. If you knew anything about it you would recognize the fact that a caste system exists for them completely negates any connection to communism.

If you must know what the tau are, they are: A Despotic Totalitarian Collectivist Imperialistic Utilitarianist Society ruled by Theocratic Hereditary Oligarchies presiding over Meritocratic Councils.

Yea. Full read on the matter here ---->http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=70577.0

I never understood the anime thing, and this is from someone who absolutely can't stand anime. Anime mech suits are far anthropomorphic and ridiculous, don't gundams and neon-genesis-evangeliwhogivesacare robots use swords and other nonsense? The crisis suits are all blocky and look far more functional. I mean if I had to guess what real world robots would look like down the road I'd pretty much envision tau stuff.

Also how can you have a sci-fi universe that covers almost every archetype except the technologically inclined guys that shoot blue plasma thingies. (Eldar don't count they are far too mystical and psychically inclined to fill this role). It's perhaps the most science fictiony trope of all sci-fi tropes. I mean dreads are not your conventional sci-fi robobt (not that they have to be). Tau are all about functionallity and effectiveness, anime stuff is definitely more about style (though they fail this hard)

I also always got an African vibe rather than Asian from the ethereals and the whole Tau homeworld being a desert, but maybe that's just me.

My friend explained it a good way, take the "I'm twelve years old and what is this" meme kid and strap a railgun on his head.

I always got the impression that tau don't realize how grimdark everyone else is so we have them throwing parties for necrons, thinking they've killed Slaanesh, and trusting that IG will honour their allainces. I can imagine them sending a long polite letter to Kharn asking him if he would like to join the greater good.

I've always seen 40k as a humourous over the top parody of the science fiction genre (and many others) so maybe that's why I think they fit. They make the grimdark more grimdark and thus more comedic.

Also "Why Can't we be Friends" is the best tau theme song fo sho /endrant

The only thing I hate about the Tau is fighting them in the DoW: Soulstorm campaign. AKA Suck My Long Range Bombardment, Peasant.

I like the Tau because to me, they are actually the most 'original' race in Warhammer 40k.

Imperial Guard are basic humans.

Space Marines may have been original 20 years ago, but now the concept of big killers in power armor who 'don't afraid of nobody' is so common in fiction it's not original anymore.

Witch Hunters are just the spanish inquistion in the future.

Chaos Space Marines are evil Marines, so same applies.

Daemons and Orks gain some originality point for putting obviousy fantasy trapping into a Sci-fi setting, but the fact remain that orcs and demons are extremely common in the fantasy world and we've all seen it before.

Elder and Dark Elders are elves (and evil elves, respectively) but in Space. Again, a bit of originality because it's a classic fantasy concept put in a Sci-fi world... but we all know what elves are.

While Necron actually have interesting/unique fluff, at first glance they're really just evil robot who happens to look an awful lot like the T-800 Terminator.

Tyranids are basically H.R. Gigers/James Cameron Aliens converted to the Warhammer world.

Am I missing anybody?

While the Tau are blue fish people space communist. Woah... now that's not exactly something you see in every other settings.

Personally I don't quite get the 'mecha' aspect people are raving about. Most Anime mech suits looks extremely agile and flexible... while the Crisis suit for the most part look like big walking fridge who will tip over at any sudden movement - You're going to tell me this guy look like anything the Tau can field? Please. Not to mention that Anime Mecha tend to be Titan Sized (Gundam), while Crisis suits are quite puny... and again, a Gundam doesn't actually look anything like a Crisis suit. I mean honestly, you really think this looks like this? Seriously?

I just don't see the anime link to be honest... Crisis Suit have a lot more in common with power armor than they do Anime Mecha!

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I dislike the other races, far from it. I don't even play Tau, I have Marines and Orks. I love the twist GW put on their races... but the fact remain, you can explain to a new comer every race in a few words (i.e. 'Imperial Guards are normal dudes', 'Tyranides are like Aliens', 'Orks are orcs in space with guns!' etc), but explaining Tau actually requires to sit down and explains what they are.

Monster Rain wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Tau are not just coming into their grimdarkness...

As I said before, they're beginning to become the most grimdark ever.

I feel that Space Pope will quickly reveal himself to be a true Space Stalin, Space Caligula, and Space Idi Amin all rolled into one.

And I like it!

I think that the skull structure of the Ethereals look disturbingly Necron-like.

I'm hoping that the Deceiver has pulled a huge fast one.

approximately same weapon tech ( Gauss/Railgun)
no warp signature
necrons look like hunched bulky tau

could it be.....

Retrias wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Tau are not just coming into their grimdarkness...

As I said before, they're beginning to become the most grimdark ever.

I feel that Space Pope will quickly reveal himself to be a true Space Stalin, Space Caligula, and Space Idi Amin all rolled into one.

And I like it!

I think that the skull structure of the Ethereals look disturbingly Necron-like.

I'm hoping that the Deceiver has pulled a huge fast one.

approximately same weapon tech ( Gauss/Railgun)
no warp signature
necrons look like hunched bulky tau

could it be.....

Don't Tau have rather short life spans, too?

They are Dogs of war in space!

Acctullay it's odd I've always seen them as being a bit like the British Empire. They have the cast system we have the class system.
There expanding rapidly incorperating other races for what use they are to the empire, spreading their Idea of civilization, taking the the best aspects of subjected people and bringing them round to the Idea of the Greater Good.

Those that disagree to their 'benevolent' nature are strictly disciplined via forced conquest or eradication all for their own good of course.

They have a highly trained professional army, but have little or no qualms about using native contingents to there own ends and to bulk their forces.

Monster Rain wrote:Don't Tau have rather short life spans, too?

Yeap. 40 years is considered elderly, if I remember correctly.

The Dizzler wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Don't Tau have rather short life spans, too?

Yeap. 40 years is considered elderly, if I remember correctly.

Kind of like another race I've heard of.

Tau are Necrontyr. Time to face facts.

Retrias wrote:approximately same weapon tech ( Gauss/Railgun)

Not even close. Necron gauss weaponry uses a teleportation effect to remove matter from the target. Railguns and coilguns use electromagnetic force to propel a round of ammunition from the gun in the direction of the targe.

Monster Rain wrote:Kind of like another race I've heard of.

Tau are Necrontyr. Time to face facts.

On the other hand, the Tau's short lifespan doesn't stem from an unstable sun or whatever caused it in the Necrontyr.

They're just sissies.

AlexHolker wrote:Not even close. Necron gauss weaponry uses a teleportation effect to remove matter from the target. Railguns and coilguns use electromagnetic force to propel a round of ammunition from the gun in the direction of the targe.

Plus the Tau have nothing on the Necron's inertialess drive, no teleportation technology, no phase tech and no nanotech (that I'm aware of, at least), amongst other things.

asimo77 wrote:I never understood the anime thing, and this is from someone who absolutely can't stand anime. Anime mech suits are far anthropomorphic and ridiculous, don't gundams and neon-genesis-evangeliwhogivesacare robots use swords and other nonsense? The crisis suits are all blocky and look far more functional. I mean if I had to guess what real world robots would look like down the road I'd pretty much envision tau stuff.

Sure , if you believe anime mechas are created only after the 90s and that the Tau design are inspired by "American" Mech Warrior , Battle Tech , and FASA


@ the rest , FW Tau design = Original and none anime?
Oh noes better not let the word out they are from Armored Core

If you happen to like how Tau look , great , appreciate the Artistic Diversity of GW design teams.
Dont be all afraid thinking people will think you play Tau for anime -_-

AlexHolker wrote:

Retrias wrote:approximately same weapon tech ( Gauss/Railgun)

Not even close. Necron gauss weaponry uses a teleportation effect to remove matter from the target. Railguns and coilguns use electromagnetic force to propel a round of ammunition from the gun in the direction of the targe.

They both use electromagnetism, one goes toward the gun and then... somewhere. The other makes a big bullet fly away from the gun and owns face.

juraigamer wrote:Also, tau are not communist. If you knew anything about it you would recognize the fact that a caste system exists for them completely negates any connection to communism.

If you must know what the tau are, they are: A Despotic Totalitarian Collectivist Imperialistic Utilitarianist Society ruled by Theocratic Hereditary Oligarchies presiding over Meritocratic Councils.

Yea. Full read on the matter here ---->http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=70577.0

Sounds like something a Communist would say.

And no I won't subscribe to your newsletter.

I just want to say a few things I've seen.

1 Someone said Orks don't have a stable government as they're always fighting eachother. Point in fact that IS an Orks idea of a stable government

2. I do enjoy some anime but it's mostly actual movies like Princess Monanoke (I think I spelled that right), Spirited Away or Afro Samurai (it actually was kind of cool except for the Teddy Bear headed cyborg) but those have alot to do with Japanese mythology and such.

But I don't like the people who wear the Naruto head bands or make space marines look like Hamtaro or yell out the number they want when rolling a die exactly as if it's a pokemon (no offence to anyone who does that) as in my experience they usually don't take the game seriously.

And in the Taus defence you can't choose what kind of people
play a game, those same anime fans might just as well play any other army because they think it fits one of their various anime themes.

3. Just to clarify the Tau do not come from a desert world. Tau itself has many differant biomes and the Tau evolved from PLAINS dwelling creatures. NOT desert

4. Maybe it's just me but I believe calling them fish heads is innapropriate. If they evolved from fish then it would be slightly ok but as they didn't I can only think of it being used do to their asian theme in which case it is a raceist remark that I feel should be left out of comments. Again that may just be me but it's my opinion.

5. Tau do not need a new codex yet. There are plenty of other armies that need to be updated first and by rights should be before any others (others being Space Marines and Tyranids who seem to get a jump a little to regularly). Tau are still competitive as they are if they are used right. And yes it would be nice if alot more fluff was released or they capitalised on the alien auxiliaries a bit more but that can wait.

6. To those people who say they hate Tau because they don't like playing against them or they're to hard to use? I'm sorry but isn't that the point of playing? To be challanged to beat some one or learn how to master an army? If using or fighting every army was easy this game woulden't be half as fun as it is because that is part of the challange of the game.

Tau are fine, I like them alot, the fact that their asian is GAY. (Im not racist, I just hate everybody) But other than that they really appeal to me, I hope they get updated with some stuff sooner or later, because I always imagined them to have some kind of invulnerable save passing power weapon, but they hate melee which kind of sucks ass in the fluff. I wish they had some dudes that would cut them selves from the whole caste thing and become totally devout melee warriors with massive shield generators and huge swords in crysis suits...gundamn anyone?

Anyway their cool, got some innovative stuff like marker lights, and their standard infantry are second only to meq. And it gives me a fuzzy feeling that my guard can actually get a reasonable KDR in melee with them.

Jaon wrote:Tau are fine, I like them alot, the fact that their asian is GAY. (Im not racist, I just hate everybody)

Xenophobe >.>

Their actually nice, if some fluff is to be believed.

How grimdark can blue, hooved, space Asians be?

Asimo hit the nail there. Quit bitching about Tau being 'anime' as one of the major races of 40k is far, far more anime than Tau. That being Eldar, of course. Eldar titans could be pretty much straight from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Heck, one of the designers has even admitted that Eldar are anime influenced.

Lots of people say that Tau have been written in annoying way. It is MEANT to be that way. Lets describe Tau a bit:

-young, upstart race which has progressed enormously over very short timespan

-short-lived, not particularly impressive physically but very ambitious

-technologically advanced and innovative

-keen to preach their naive ideology to everyone whilst being completely ignorant about ancient, dark secrets of the Galaxy

That's right...Tau are humans from Star Trek! Or Babylon 5! Or nearly any other scifi cliche compilation. It's very clever from GW to turn the stereotypes around so that it's the humans who are the old, ancient, slowly declining power being usurped by some talking monkeys who were crawling in the mud whilsts humans were conquering the stars.

When some 12-year old Tau fanboy lectures you about how awesome Greater Good is, you know how the Romulans must feel.

I don't see how Tau look anime actually....

I like anime but greatly hate the most recent anime robot shows (I miss VOTOMs ) but I'm greatly attracted to the Tau.

Jaon wrote:Tau are fine, I like them alot, the fact that their asian is GAY.

Dude, seriously? I don't even know whether you think that being of Asian descent is a homosexual thing to do, or that the Tau have some Asian employee or friend who is a homosexual, or if you're joking, or if you're a insecure teenager who apparently is rather alarmed by gay and asian people.

Frankly, I hope you were joking.

Backfire wrote:Lots of people say that Tau have been written in annoying way. It is MEANT to be that way. Lets describe Tau a bit:

-young, upstart race which has progressed enormously over very short timespan

-short-lived, not particularly impressive physically but very ambitious

-technologically advanced and innovative

-keen to preach their naive ideology to everyone whilst being completely ignorant about ancient, dark secrets of the Galaxy

That's right...Tau are humans from Star Trek! Or Babylon 5! Or nearly any other scifi cliche compilation. It's very clever from GW to turn the stereotypes around so that it's the humans who are the old, ancient, slowly declining power being usurped by some talking monkeys who were crawling in the mud whilsts humans were conquering the stars.

When some 12-year old Tau fanboy lectures you about how awesome Greater Good is, you know how the Romulans must feel.

HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP

As a hardcore Trekkie I should have caught on to this so much sooner... this is brilliant!

Everything I thought I knew was a lie...

...and I like playing Tau even more now!

I thought about getting a Tau army , but when I got the codex and read their stats on close combat, I binned it and went back to painting Red space marines with unbeleiveable Ws... .

And another thing is; have any of you played Fire Warrrior? The only Tau with a good BS there was the Tau you were playin', and sometimes not even then!

Some people hate the Tau because they don't have enough fluff, and some people hate the Tau because they have too much fluff.

I hate Space Marines and Chaos.

Monster Rain wrote:

Retrias wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Tau are not just coming into their grimdarkness...

As I said before, they're beginning to become the most grimdark ever.

I feel that Space Pope will quickly reveal himself to be a true Space Stalin, Space Caligula, and Space Idi Amin all rolled into one.

And I like it!

I think that the skull structure of the Ethereals look disturbingly Necron-like.

I'm hoping that the Deceiver has pulled a huge fast one.

approximately same weapon tech ( Gauss/Railgun)
no warp signature
necrons look like hunched bulky tau

could it be.....

Don't Tau have rather short life spans, too?

different sort i think

Necrontyr had their sun problem
Tau just died early

but i guess genetic coding?

Backfire wrote:Asimo hit the nail there. Quit bitching about Tau being 'anime' as one of the major races of 40k is far, far more anime than Tau. That being Eldar, of course. Eldar titans could be pretty much straight from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Heck, one of the designers has even admitted that Eldar are anime influenced.

Lots of people say that Tau have been written in annoying way. It is MEANT to be that way. Lets describe Tau a bit:

-young, upstart race which has progressed enormously over very short timespan

-short-lived, not particularly impressive physically but very ambitious

-technologically advanced and innovative

-keen to preach their naive ideology to everyone whilst being completely ignorant about ancient, dark secrets of the Galaxy

That's right...Tau are humans from Star Trek! Or Babylon 5! Or nearly any other scifi cliche compilation. It's very clever from GW to turn the stereotypes around so that it's the humans who are the old, ancient, slowly declining power being usurped by some talking monkeys who were crawling in the mud whilsts humans were conquering the stars.

When some 12-year old Tau fanboy lectures you about how awesome Greater Good is, you know how the Romulans must feel.

Except humans usually don't have the super advanced best tech evar (at least compared to other races). Other than that you bring up some nice points and maybe that is what bothers people about it, they are humans in their sci-fi niche but they do not look like humans.

CrazyThang wrote:

Backfire wrote:Asimo hit the nail there. Quit bitching about Tau being 'anime' as one of the major races of 40k is far, far more anime than Tau. That being Eldar, of course. Eldar titans could be pretty much straight from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Heck, one of the designers has even admitted that Eldar are anime influenced.

Lots of people say that Tau have been written in annoying way. It is MEANT to be that way. Lets describe Tau a bit:

-young, upstart race which has progressed enormously over very short timespan

-short-lived, not particularly impressive physically but very ambitious

-technologically advanced and innovative

-keen to preach their naive ideology to everyone whilst being completely ignorant about ancient, dark secrets of the Galaxy

That's right...Tau are humans from Star Trek! Or Babylon 5! Or nearly any other scifi cliche compilation. It's very clever from GW to turn the stereotypes around so that it's the humans who are the old, ancient, slowly declining power being usurped by some talking monkeys who were crawling in the mud whilsts humans were conquering the stars.

When some 12-year old Tau fanboy lectures you about how awesome Greater Good is, you know how the Romulans must feel.

Except humans usually don't have the super advanced best tech evar (at least compared to other races). Other than that you bring up some nice points and maybe that is what bothers people about it, they are humans in their sci-fi niche but they do not look like humans.

You could argue that Eldar and Necron tech is more advanced (at least in some regards).
Frankly I think Backfire has got it. Tau are an upstart race, one that will either be swept away or learn their place in a galaxy of fear. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that they have obviously been influenced by Mecha aspects (Moreso than Eldar), what it does bother me is that people view the Tau idealogy as 'Good' instead of Naive. I'm of the opinion that once they've been around the block a couple of times the Tau will be a lot less cuddly and a whole lot more grimdark.

Except by then they'll all be eaten by Tyranids.

@EF: What I meant by tech was stereotypical Sci-Fi. At least from everything I have seen.

This is basically the same thread I got banned on warseer for Good times.

Anyway, I'll just say this: Dirty Fish Elves.

I personally like Tau, but hate anime (why are the eyes so big? Why? WHY???? Why does a giant line of sweat coming off of your head symbolize dissapointment? WHY?!?) /endrant

I have bought the codex, and while I like the options, the minimal fluff section vs. the fluff of the space marine codex made me when I first bought it. I believe the term for such a stripped down codex is "jervisified". I like the way they play, with lots of firepower and high mobility for your troops, using devilfishes. And I don't see why they're considered "the ultimate good", when if you don't agree to join their empire, they take the fire cast and your society up its . Just sayin', actually having negotiators doesn't make you the good guys. Believe it or not, there are other diplomatic options than "Lets nuke 'em".

micahaphone wrote:I personally like Tau, but hate anime (why are the eyes so big? Why? WHY???? Why does a giant line of sweat coming off of your head symbolize dissapointment? WHY?!?) /endrant

I have bought the codex, and while I like the options, the minimal fluff section vs. the fluff of the space marine codex made me when I first bought it. I believe the term for such a stripped down codex is "jervisified". I like the way they play, with lots of firepower and high mobility for your troops, using devilfishes. And I don't see why they're considered "the ultimate good", when if you don't agree to join their empire, they take the fire cast and your society up its . Just sayin', actually having negotiators doesn't make you the good guys. Believe it or not, there are other diplomatic options than "Lets nuke 'em".

Heresy. Please enjoy the inquisitorial stormtroopers currently in route to your location.

And have a grimdark day.

They're boring in every way, from the background, to the models, to the play style. They put me to sleep

micahaphone wrote:I personally like Tau, but hate anime (why are the eyes so big? Why? WHY???? Why does a giant line of sweat coming off of your head symbolize dissapointment? WHY?!?) /endrant

I have bought the codex, and while I like the options, the minimal fluff section vs. the fluff of the space marine codex made me when I first bought it. I believe the term for such a stripped down codex is "jervisified". I like the way they play, with lots of firepower and high mobility for your troops, using devilfishes. And I don't see why they're considered "the ultimate good", when if you don't agree to join their empire, they take the fire cast and your society up its . Just sayin', actually having negotiators doesn't make you the good guys. Believe it or not, there are other diplomatic options than "Lets nuke 'em".

That's Manga. Anime is actually very serious.

Jihadnik wrote:Because they are Xenos scum and because they can outshoot my guard army everytime!

You are doing something horribly wrong then.

micahaphone wrote:

That's Manga. Anime is actually very serious.

ಠ_ಠ

edit: I think this visual aid will help you understand my disbelief http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-lkSIrwo1A

asimo77 wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

That's Manga. Anime is actually very serious.

ಠ_ಠ

Sorry, but I just copied and pasted this into my Macro List

Emperors Faithful wrote:

CrazyThang wrote:

Backfire wrote:Asimo hit the nail there. Quit bitching about Tau being 'anime' as one of the major races of 40k is far, far more anime than Tau. That being Eldar, of course. Eldar titans could be pretty much straight from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Heck, one of the designers has even admitted that Eldar are anime influenced.

Lots of people say that Tau have been written in annoying way. It is MEANT to be that way. Lets describe Tau a bit:

-young, upstart race which has progressed enormously over very short timespan

-short-lived, not particularly impressive physically but very ambitious

-technologically advanced and innovative

-keen to preach their naive ideology to everyone whilst being completely ignorant about ancient, dark secrets of the Galaxy

That's right...Tau are humans from Star Trek! Or Babylon 5! Or nearly any other scifi cliche compilation. It's very clever from GW to turn the stereotypes around so that it's the humans who are the old, ancient, slowly declining power being usurped by some talking monkeys who were crawling in the mud whilsts humans were conquering the stars.

When some 12-year old Tau fanboy lectures you about how awesome Greater Good is, you know how the Romulans must feel.

Except humans usually don't have the super advanced best tech evar (at least compared to other races). Other than that you bring up some nice points and maybe that is what bothers people about it, they are humans in their sci-fi niche but they do not look like humans.

You could argue that Eldar and Necron tech is more advanced (at least in some regards).
Frankly I think Backfire has got it. Tau are an upstart race, one that will either be swept away or learn their place in a galaxy of fear. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that they have obviously been influenced by Mecha aspects (Moreso than Eldar), what it does bother me is that people view the Tau idealogy as 'Good' instead of Naive. I'm of the opinion that once they've been around the block a couple of times the Tau will be a lot less cuddly and a whole lot more grimdark.

You mean they'll turn into this

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Except by then everyone'll all be eaten by Tyranids.

Fixed.

It would be cool if they just randomly combinded them with the tyranid codex to make the super race of the TAU-NIDS. Look out its a broadfex!

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

You mean they'll turn into this

Oh look! Citizens of the Farsight Enclaves. How nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrazyThang wrote:@EF: What I meant by tech was stereotypical Sci-Fi. At least from everything I have seen.

So...what do you class as 'Stereotypical Sci-Fi Tech'?

Space Travel
Eldar: Have eco-friendly sails in space that soak up the rays of the sun. Enabling them to go pretty much wherever they want, whenever they want. So long as the juice lasts.
Necrons: These guys are just so "WTHFS?!?" in their space tech it's impossible to compare.
Tau: Tau fleets are neato. Lotsa lotsa missile pods, but nothing really approaching definitive warp travel and other cool gizmos similar to the other two. Works well enough for them.

Weapons
Eldar: Basic shuriken weapons shoot crazy ninja...well, shurikens. Nothing too fancy. Wraithguard/Lords/Bone on the other hand, that's way out of the Tau's leauge.
Necrons: Their basic weapons glance Land Raiders.
Tau: Neato shooting, Str 10 Ap 1 single shot lasers. Cool. High-powered, but compared to the Necrons not high tech.

Armour
Eldar: Eh. What can you say?
Necrons: Takes the cake.
Tau: Beats Eldar, not Necrons.

Again to clarify Broadsides aren't lasers, they're weapons that fire solid shot ammunitiion accelerated to incredible speed by linear acceleration .

@ Emperors Faithfull: Yes those are Farsight concept sketches made by Lord Dirk over on ATT. I think if the Tau where to become Grimdark like the rest of the galaxy they would look like that and in essence become more like the Farsight Enclaves

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Again to clarify Broadsides aren't lasers, they're weapons that fire solid shot ammunitiion accelerated to incredible speed by linear acceleration .

You lie! Next you'll be telling me that Lacannons are really just big lasguns!

@ Emperors Faithfull: Yes those are Farsight concept sketches made by Lord Dirk over on ATT. I think if the Tau where to become Grimdark like the rest of the galaxy they would look like that and in essence become more like the Farsight Enclaves

To be honest I doubt that the Farsight Enclaves have devolved that much already, but their very act of splitting up is proof of the Tau starting to lean towards a 'grimdark' mindset.

I'm chiming in waaaaay late to this, but the thing that really bothers me about the Tau is their inclusion in the game.

OK, that sounds weird.

What I mean is that every other army in 40K has some way of being almost anywhere in the galaxy. The Orks are extremely widespread, and they often use Hulks to move through the warp as well. The necrons have some sort of wacko space zombie/robot technology to appear all over the galaxy (plus they have tomb worlds slumbering all over the place). The eldar use the webway. The Tyranids are insanely numerous and entering the galaxy from all sorts of different directions.Almost everybody else travels through (or manifests out of) the Warp.

Tau are limited to one very small (relatively) area of the galaxy, and don't have/don't utilize the warp technology that would allow them to travel broadly all over the galaxy. Why, then, are they in the game? Aren't there TONS of alien empires scattered around the galaxy, similarly limited in their scope and reach?

I don't have any problems with the Tau background, fluff, history, rules, look, or influences. I really, really like the "combined armies" feel with the Vespids and Kroot. I'd like to see more alien troops, and I'd like to see the human auxiliaries make a return.

It just annoys me that there's no real reason that lots of people should ever encounter a tau force (unless you assume that ALL of your opponents are traveling over to your empire to pick a fight). I mean, would it have been sooooo hard to simply write down that the Tau do have reliable far-range space travel, and can be encountered in many areas of the galaxy? There's just no reason to limit their enclaves to one little area of space.

Take Warhammer Fantasy. It seems odd to have the Lizardmen, who are native to Lustria (South America), included in a game that focuses so heavily on the Old World (Europe). However, the writers simply made a point of noting that the Lizardmen were entrusted with enacting the plans of the Old Ones (which include the whole world) and have access to powerful magic that can transport them across ley lines and mystic portals to other places in the world. They even made a point of talking about the sacred plaques of the Old Ones, which, due to being engraved on big gold tablets, were highly prized by LOTS of people, and so often had to be recovered by force.

If you're going to create a new race to insert into the game, don't write fluff that specifically limits their interaction with the rest of the game world. Write fluff that mandates their interaction with the rest of the game world. If most people aren't supposed to encounter them, leave them as a background race, like the Hrud, or the Demiurge.

The Tau Empire is located in a meeting point of sorts. On one side you have the Imperium to their galactic North and North-West. You have the Tyranids coming in from the East, and the area's that Tau has liberated were heavily infested by Orks. Furthermore, you have the occasional Tomb World that they stumble upon.
So far the factions that the Tau have encountered just by existing are:
-IG
-SM
-Tyranids
-Orks
-Necrons
Then you have the Eldar and Dark Eldar, who can pretty much go anywhere they please.

The only really unexplained race that has come into contact with the Tau is Chaos. The odd renegade faction or Warband is understandable, but the original legions are focused around the Eye of Terror which is almost on the othe side of the Galaxy.

If DoW: DC and DoW:SS are considered fluff, then the Tau have been in Contact with Chaos, Eldar, and Dark Eldar as well, just from the Karuva system and Kronus. Since the Tau as of now do not have any long ranged spacecrafts, that would place Kronus and the Karuva system would be extremely close to the Empire. Karuva drew the Alpha Legion because of the Warp Storm(or they came and caused the Warp Storm) I really didn't get why the Word Bearers were at Kronus, other than CSM were in Vanilla DoW. >.>

It must be kept in mind of course that having every single faction/race on the same planet at the same time makes little sense.

40k fanboys see anime battlesuits and their instincts tell them that there are cat-ears just around the corner. But i would totally watch a tau anime on tv, more like bringing GrimDark to anime itself, Huzzah!

their design is more blockish than many of the newer anime anyway

while the new suits ( XV22, XV9, R'Ymr suit) is gundam/AC look alike

eldar on the other hand has a unit that says NINJA all over it
their wraithguards/lords look as if they have come EVA
and their titan.... is well.....

Fluff can be rewritten at any time. If GW want the Tau to be all over the place, they can simply reveal that the currently understood fluff is several hundred years out of date, owing to an Imperial scribe balls-up, and actually the Tau have rapidly built a Federation of 100,000 systems occupying most of the eastern side of the galaxy.

They are blue space commies with hooves and less fingers than I. :3
Also because the Emperor says so

Iur_tae_mont wrote:If DoW: DC and DoW:SS are considered fluff, then the Tau have been in Contact with Chaos, Eldar, and Dark Eldar as well, just from the Karuva system and Kronus.

If DoW.DC is considered fluff, then we would have 7 different futures for this planet all taking place. Guess that answers it.

Kroothawk wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:If DoW: DC and DoW:SS are considered fluff, then the Tau have been in Contact with Chaos, Eldar, and Dark Eldar as well, just from the Karuva system and Kronus.

If DoW.DC is considered fluff, then we would have 7 different futures for this planet all taking place. Guess that answers it.

Did you notice the way a farseer treats his/her takes on the future?
Nothing is for sure, so all of them can happen, just not at once. Doesn't invalidate any of the 7 as possible outcome.
DOW presents a 'future' not the past. Background in publications present the past.

Contact with anyone except DE is already part of the fluff. If there is contact will rely upon the DE codex to come.

IIRC Tau have faced a Slannesh devoted host once, the Kroot ate a bunch of Noise Marines and in the final battle with the Lord, they mutated and ripped a massive hole in the Tau lines, while the Firewarriors were "euphoric and sloppy" due to the "strange airborne toxins". The Tau don't know what Chaos is, only that any Kroot who eat the bodies of Chaos devotees must be incinerated and any humans worshipping it are freakishly hard to stop. The Tau also think that the Prince Of Excess is just some loony human with too much drugs and sex, that they can eventually kill....

As for the issue about communication back on page 2 or 3, the Tau use Messenger Probes that are slightly faster than their ships, emphasis on slightly.

As for Backfire's description: Yes all those traits are reasons why we hate Tau, like how we all hate Wesley Crusher and offer our condolences to Wil Wheaton.

I remember when the Tau came out, they felt so shoe-horned, no two-facedness, no hidden agenda or ulterior motive, no massed genocides/atrocities committed on an hourly basis and considered par for the course by the basic Earth Caste worker or an Aun'O.

At least their grimdark is beginning now, but they still lack that certain Do-Or-Die principle that motivates every other faction to either kill everything or... KILL EVERYTHING! Sure theres some nasty stuff going on in the Tau empire, but we're not getting the digger machine dumping bodies into massed graves and all those other atrocities we love everyone else for doing. By wanting to "Rule Everyone" instead of "Rule Everything Left After We Kill Everyone" they're not staying true to the "KILL! EVERYTHING!" feel that makes 40k standout amongst tabletop sci-fi wargames.

I'll repeat: Dirty Fish Elves

Has no one made this connection?

I look at them all the time BUT I always get someone behind me yelling dont do it its a trap. Supposedly theyre real bad in game.
I think some of the models are good and some are crap look like toys. Forgeworld's new stuff is awesome.Real high tech look and look like they are real. I hate the the Tau because I hate communism. My stomach turns at the merest thought. i do realize it is a game but its me I just cant do it. Communism is just too real and present.

Lord Dirk had an idea that I like and I think it fits with the Grimdark aspect. He was trying to think of a way that the Tau could have Ork auxiliaries since the Orks are well.....Orks . Anyway what he came up with is that the Tau have labotomised (spelling?) Orks and replaced apart of their brains with simple drone controllers. I actually like the idea, I think it's suitably Grimdark for the Tau.

Kroothawk wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:If DoW: DC and DoW:SS are considered fluff, then the Tau have been in Contact with Chaos, Eldar, and Dark Eldar as well, just from the Karuva system and Kronus.

If DoW.DC is considered fluff, then we would have 7 different futures for this planet all taking place. Guess that answers it.

DoW 2 has given hints that Blood Ravens won Kronus. DoW 2 also had a scout that said they lost on Karuva. Other than Space Marines, the two most Positive (for the Imperium) endings would be IG (They win and everything goes back to normal) or Eldar (Same as IG, but everyone stays away from Karuva 3)

Just like the "official" story to Winter Assault was the Eldar one, it being the only one that Farseer Taldeer lived.

Waagh!Balzsmasha! wrote:. I hate the the Tau because I hate communism. My stomach turns at the merest thought. i do realize it is a game but its me I just cant do it. Communism is just too real and present.

I do hope you're joking here, otherwise I'm even sadder at the state of the educational system in this country.

What do you mean?

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Lord Dirk had an idea that I like and I think it fits with the Grimdark aspect. He was trying to think of a way that the Tau could have Ork auxiliaries since the Orks are well.....Orks . Anyway what he came up with is that the Tau have labotomised (spelling?) Orks and replaced apart of their brains with simple drone controllers. I actually like the idea, I think it's suitably Grimdark for the Tau.

Why bother turning Orks into drones when you already have drones?

Kilkrazy wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Lord Dirk had an idea that I like and I think it fits with the Grimdark aspect. He was trying to think of a way that the Tau could have Ork auxiliaries since the Orks are well.....Orks . Anyway what he came up with is that the Tau have labotomised (spelling?) Orks and replaced apart of their brains with simple drone controllers. I actually like the idea, I think it's suitably Grimdark for the Tau.

Why bother turning Orks into drones when you already have drones?

You can put more C-4 into Orks than drones.

Eyclonus wrote:IIRC Tau have faced a Slannesh devoted host once, the Kroot ate a bunch of Noise Marines and in the final battle with the Lord, they mutated and ripped a massive hole in the Tau lines, while the Firewarriors were "euphoric and sloppy" due to the "strange airborne toxins". The Tau don't know what Chaos is, only that any Kroot who eat the bodies of Chaos devotees must be incinerated and any humans worshipping it are freakishly hard to stop. The Tau also think that the Prince Of Excess is just some loony human with too much drugs and sex, that they can eventually kill....

This sounds interesting, where does this piece of fluff come from?

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:Lord Dirk had an idea that I like and I think it fits with the Grimdark aspect. He was trying to think of a way that the Tau could have Ork auxiliaries since the Orks are well.....Orks . Anyway what he came up with is that the Tau have labotomised (spelling?) Orks and replaced apart of their brains with simple drone controllers. I actually like the idea, I think it's suitably Grimdark for the Tau.

Why bother turning Orks into drones when you already have drones?

You can put more C-4 into Orks than drones.

Tau use TDX not C4.

I love the army, but I HATE the way they look...withe a passion.

Tau are cool, they only need one thing - a fast-acting long-lasting injection of Skulls.
Their battlesuits must have atleast 15 skulls, every soldier must have 1, kroot need organs in their mouth and many skulls, and The space-Pope needs a throne of... Skulls! Khorne will be pleased.

For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

Also if you think the Tau are communists because of their practice of join us and do what we say or die you might want to read up on the crusade to unify humanity before the Horus Heresy because it was the same exact thing. A galactic empire bringing planets under their control (often times forcefully) with the purpose of unification for all, and the Imperium didn't have it's anti xenos mindset then either.

And giving a labotomised Ork a drone reciever does not make him a drone. It makes it a large drooling mass of muscle that can be used by the Tau for the Greater Good of course.

What's wrong with communists?

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

And giving a labotomised Ork a drone reciever does not make him a drone. It makes it a large drooling mass of muscle that can be used by the Tau for the Greater Good of course.

A manifesto?
Maybe try the original, and look at it the attempts of it in real life. Come back to me then.

Lets assume it possible to catch an ork without loosing too many Tau.
Lets assume they manage to find its brain. Lets also assume its possible to control it.
Maybe we realize then that an ork isn't a good choice for a army following the tactics of the Tau?
Wasted ressources at best. More Tau lost at the attempt then saved by using the ork at worst.

Kilkrazy wrote:What's wrong with communists?

Why do you need to ask?

Terminus wrote:

Waagh!Balzsmasha! wrote:. I hate the the Tau because I hate communism. My stomach turns at the merest thought. i do realize it is a game but its me I just cant do it. Communism is just too real and present.

I do hope you're joking here, otherwise I'm even sadder at the state of the educational system in this country.

Waagh!Balzsmasha! wrote:What do you mean?

LOL, I guess we can take that for an answer

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

Bah, only communists read books

Kilkrazy wrote:What's wrong with communists?

Didn't you know that Stalin used a special perfume to start the communist revolution? See?

Lucid wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:IIRC Tau have faced a Slannesh devoted host once, the Kroot ate a bunch of Noise Marines and in the final battle with the Lord, they mutated and ripped a massive hole in the Tau lines, while the Firewarriors were "euphoric and sloppy" due to the "strange airborne toxins". The Tau don't know what Chaos is, only that any Kroot who eat the bodies of Chaos devotees must be incinerated and any humans worshipping it are freakishly hard to stop. The Tau also think that the Prince Of Excess is just some loony human with too much drugs and sex, that they can eventually kill....

This sounds interesting, where does this piece of fluff come from?

As I recall it was one of the fluff pieces in old GW website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eyclonus wrote:
I remember when the Tau came out, they felt so shoe-horned, no two-facedness, no hidden agenda or ulterior motive, no massed genocides/atrocities committed on an hourly basis and considered par for the course by the basic Earth Caste worker or an Aun'O.

Actually fluff between 3rd and 4th edition Tau codices is almost unchanged. Arrival of the Ethereals - which hints that some more advanced race was behind it all - is same on both books. So is the suggestion that Ethereals use pheromones to control regular Tau. There were some fluff pieces which were removed and indeed described Tau in rather idealized fashion, but they were probably removed simply because they were boring rather than to change image of the race.

Tau had the 'grimdark behind the polished facade' thing going on right from the start, it just wasn't so obvious in the first book. Probably because they were unhappy how Necrons turned out...

1hadhq wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:For those of you who think that Tau are space Communists I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto and see if they are anything close.

And giving a labotomised Ork a drone reciever does not make him a drone. It makes it a large drooling mass of muscle that can be used by the Tau for the Greater Good of course.

A manifesto?
Maybe try the original, and look at it the attempts of it in real life. Come back to me then.

Lets assume it possible to catch an ork without loosing too many Tau.
Lets assume they manage to find its brain. Lets also assume its possible to control it.
Maybe we realize then that an ork isn't a good choice for a army following the tactics of the Tau?
Wasted ressources at best. More Tau lost at the attempt then saved by using the ork at worst.

Kilkrazy wrote:What's wrong with communists?

Why do you need to ask?

The Tau are not space communists. And even if they where what's wrong with it? China is a communist country and they are one of the leading powers in the world. Communism get's a bad reputation because there are certain leading individuals throughout history who ordered inhuman acts while in command of a Communist regime. Thus people associate the negatives of that person with that type of government.

It also dosen't help that America has been to war with almost every communist country for various reasons and so many Americans will hate it simply for that reason. The same way that acts of hate a racism became more common against American citizens originating from the Middle East simply because of the actions of Osama Bin Laden and his organisation even though these peoples have nothing to do with it.

So in my opinion if someone says that they hate Communism that's fine, it's completly their choice and they are free to it. But they should actually know what Communism is before saying that they hate it. And again as far as hating the Tau because they're "communists" which they aren't then those people hate the Imperium to because the Imperium has done the same thing that the Tau are currently doing. the only differance is that the Imperium partially failed in their version because of the actions of Horus.

And who ever said that the Orks had to be used in combat? The Tau have many allied races that dosen't mean they all fight. And also Orks can pull a trigger just like everyone else, they don't have to go charging into battle choppas swinging (though it is incredibly fun when your mobz do just that )

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

A)
The Tau are not space communists. And even if they where what's wrong with it? China is a communist country and they are one of the leading powers in the world. Communism get's a bad reputation because there are certain leading individuals throughout history who ordered inhuman acts while in command of a Communist regime. Thus people associate the negatives of that person with that type of government.




B)
And who ever said that the Orks had to be used in combat? The Tau have many allied races that dosen't mean they all fight. And also Orks can pull a trigger just like everyone else, they don't have to go charging into battle choppas swinging (though it is incredibly fun when your mobz do just that )

A) Sometimes, a type of government gets the leaders it deserves.

B)
Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Drone-ified orks could be manual labor for civilian needs, and I think the main reason for commie bashing is partially the whole "Senator McCartney sez commie=antiamerican" mentality, the iron curtain, the division of Germany, the cold war, ect. Those involved in the cold war still (for the most part) hate the other side. But having a society with leaders and ranks of power, and a CLASS SYSTEM is very anti-commie. the entire progression of a common fire warrior eventually becoming a shas'o battlefield leader, a common person becoming a member of the government, is about as pro-democratic as you can get. Whereas in the corrupt communist system of the USSR, promotions of this sort were done by the elite class's personal preferences and favorites.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrazyThang wrote:

micahaphone wrote:I personally like Tau, but hate anime (why are the eyes so big? Why? WHY???? Why does a giant line of sweat coming off of your head symbolize dissapointment? WHY?!?) /endrant

I have bought the codex, and while I like the options, the minimal fluff section vs. the fluff of the space marine codex made me when I first bought it. I believe the term for such a stripped down codex is "jervisified". I like the way they play, with lots of firepower and high mobility for your troops, using devilfishes. And I don't see why they're considered "the ultimate good", when if you don't agree to join their empire, they take the fire cast and your society up its . Just sayin', actually having negotiators doesn't make you the good guys. Believe it or not, there are other diplomatic options than "Lets nuke 'em".

Heresy. Please enjoy the inquisitorial stormtroopers currently in route to your location.

And have a grimdark day.

Don't worry, I don't have any models yet. My space marines still firmly believe in stomping the ing out of every who s with the ing imperium. So basically, ing ers ing ers

Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss

"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss

"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

1hadhq wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

A)
The Tau are not space communists. And even if they where what's wrong with it? China is a communist country and they are one of the leading powers in the world. Communism get's a bad reputation because there are certain leading individuals throughout history who ordered inhuman acts while in command of a Communist regime. Thus people associate the negatives of that person with that type of government.

B)
And who ever said that the Orks had to be used in combat? The Tau have many allied races that dosen't mean they all fight. And also Orks can pull a trigger just like everyone else, they don't have to go charging into battle choppas swinging (though it is incredibly fun when your mobz do just that )

A) Sometimes, a type of government gets the leaders it deserves.

B)
Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what
should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Yes sometimes governments get leaders that they deserve but considering that there have been multiple types of governments through out history that have been led by a person or persons whose moral compass dosen't exactly point North (including America) this can hardly be a reflection of the government but instead a confirmation that EVERYONE is capable of doing wrong.

And as was said above manual labor is an option but even at that you may have forgotten that Orks do have fingers which means that they do have the ability to pull a trigger, if a situation arises were the loss of Tau lives would be too large they can simply use the Orks. Or if need be they can perform a rearguard action allowing the Tau to retreat with minimal casualties. It also gives the Tau the ability to wage larger conflicts against their more attrition based enemies. While the Ork Drones engage the hordes (acting as bait and distracting them) the Tau Battlesuits and Fire Warriors engage the main threats such as command staff and such without losing personel.

And you mentioned the Orks rebeling? I said they where labotomised and parts of their brain are replaced with mechanical upgrades allowing Tau to controle them (and to the above comment of "assuming the Tau could find the Orks brain" here is a hint, it's in their heads).

If you remove the part of an Orks brain that gives it free thought and will with a device designed to controle the Ork how can they rebel? Heck there is even an Ork Dok who tried to do this same exact thing in the Conquest of Armageddon book, the only reason it failed was because of a malfunction with the Doks technology. a mistake that would not be made by the Tau. It is the same thing that the Imperium does with servitors. And it allows the Orks to serve the Greater Good (which is all that the Tau care about) even if unwillingly.

@ Asimo77: Exactly my point, I don't think I've veer been able to have an intelliectual discussion (besides talking with my Political Sciences teacher) about Communism without sombody accusing someone else of actually being a Communist because of the general bias towards it. Not that I care as I actually have no political association .

@ Micahphone: I agree, the idea/general goal behind Communism I think is a good one but the way that Communist countries have tried to reach that goal in the past is just

Would it be wrong of me to point out that the Roman Republic (which, famously, conquered and subjugated the vast majority of Europe, even when not under the auspices of an emperor) was, in fact... a republic?

The type of government alone does not make the people who run the country good and just.

There are corrupt democracies.

There are communist countries that can be described as nothing short of well-oiled machines.

A few bad leaders does not a bad form of government make.

SaintHazard wrote:Would it be wrong of me to point out that the Roman Republic (which, famously, conquered and subjugated the vast majority of Europe, even when not under the auspices of an emperor) was, in fact... a republic?

The type of government alone does not make the people who run the country good and just.

There are corrupt democracies.

There are communist countries that can be described as nothing short of well-oiled machines.

A few bad leaders does not a bad form of government make.

Exactly, another well put example

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

You mean they'll turn into this

Oh look! Citizens of the Farsight Enclaves. How nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrazyThang wrote:@EF: What I meant by tech was stereotypical Sci-Fi. At least from everything I have seen.

So...what do you class as 'Stereotypical Sci-Fi Tech'?

Space Travel
Eldar: Have eco-friendly sails in space that soak up the rays of the sun. Enabling them to go pretty much wherever they want, whenever they want. So long as the juice lasts.
Necrons: These guys are just so "WTHFS?!?" in their space tech it's impossible to compare.
Tau: Tau fleets are neato. Lotsa lotsa missile pods, but nothing really approaching definitive warp travel and other cool gizmos similar to the other two. Works well enough for them.

Weapons
Eldar: Basic shuriken weapons shoot crazy ninja...well, shurikens. Nothing too fancy. Wraithguard/Lords/Bone on the other hand, that's way out of the Tau's leauge.
Necrons: Their basic weapons glance Land Raiders.
Tau: Neato shooting, Str 10 Ap 1 single shot lasers. Cool. High-powered, but compared to the Necrons not high tech.

Armour
Eldar: Eh. What can you say?
Necrons: Takes the cake.
Tau: Beats Eldar, not Necrons.

I believe someone has misunderstood someone.

I'm not saying the Tau don't have great tech, quite the opposite. Your comparisons (though unfair to Eldar >:C ) are good, but I was pointing to out that humans in most stuff I have seen tend to have vastly inferior tech to <insert alien race here> so comparing stereotypical sci-fi humans to Tau is kinda unfair to Tau because Tau stuff is so advanced. Sorry if this still isn't clear.

"@ Asimo77: Exactly my point, I don't think I've ever been able to have an intelliectual discussion (besides talking with my Political Sciences teacher) about Communism without sombody accusing someone else of actually being a Communist because of the general bias towards it. Not that I care as I actually have no political association ."

While uncommon I'll accept this as your surrender towards the guiding light of truth, justice, and love known as...DEMOCRACY





P.S. I'm joking, the quotes from Fallout 3, which you should play if you haven't. I just don't think DakkaDakka is the place for any political discussion (that should stay in your classroom probably). So let's get it back to tau.

Jump shoot jump. Run from my Berzerkers...you will only die tired little Tau.

@ asimo77: Ah gotcha, I'll have to try it but right now I'm waiting for Halo Reach and then Fable 3

Personally, I like the wargarble about Tau being communist (and I agree that it isn't communist due to the caste system) when there is nothing about the Imperium being fascist. There is no good in Warhammer, none, there is only propaganda.

And I love the Tau, I love being able to take out an entire squad of fire warriors with a single marine in close combat.

If only I could give my terminators railguns. Or oblits, I'd trade every single gun they possess for them to have railguns.

Vene wrote:Personally, I like the wargarble about Tau being communist (and I agree that it isn't communist due to the caste system) when there is nothing about the Imperium being fascist. There is no good in Warhammer, none, there is only propaganda.

And I love the Tau, I love being able to take out an entire squad of fire warriors with a single marine in close combat.

If only I could give my terminators railguns. Or oblits, I'd trade every single gun they possess for them to have railguns.

Oh come now. Melta Guns are so much more... ballsy.

Okay, I admit, melta does kick ass, but I can give the short range units meltaguns.

micahaphone wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss
"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

Good thing that capitalism works so extremely well in practice ... at least for a handful of bankers that is

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

And as was said above manual labor is an option but even at that you may have forgotten that Orks do have fingers which means that they do have the ability to pull a trigger, if a situation arises were the loss of Tau lives would be too large they can simply use the Orks. Or if need be they can perform a rearguard action allowing the Tau to retreat with minimal casualties. It also gives the Tau the ability to wage larger conflicts against their more attrition based enemies. While the Ork Drones engage the hordes (acting as bait and distracting them) the Tau Battlesuits and Fire Warriors engage the main threats such as command staff and such without losing personel.

And you mentioned the Orks rebeling? I said they where labotomised and parts of their brain are replaced with mechanical upgrades allowing Tau to controle them (and to the above comment of "assuming the Tau could find the Orks brain" here is a hint, it's in their heads).

If you remove the part of an Orks brain that gives it free thought and will with a device designed to controle the Ork how can they rebel? Heck there is even an Ork Dok who tried to do this same exact thing in the Conquest of Armageddon book, the only reason it failed was because of a malfunction with the Doks technology. a mistake that would not be made by the Tau. It is the same thing that the Imperium does with servitors. And it allows the Orks to serve the Greater Good (which is all that the Tau care about) even if unwillingly.

Seems you try to evade the point of 'recrutement cost'.
Can't get orks for free. Maybe try to grow your own small little greenskin and do a bit surgery until its a 'cybork' ?
Sounds nice, but ignores the fact that those creatures are fungi, and a centre of free thought may not exist where you deem to find it.
Orks follow basic instincts, they also get carried away in a waagh.
So youre basically attempting to pacify them ( if there is no need for their violence ) all day and release them like combat servitors?
This you imagine to achieve with a race so opposite to Tau beliefs, whilst Tau seem unable to stay clear from great ideas of
"meet and greet" with necrons? Would say Tau do not understand other races intentions enough to even stand a chance to
control the minds of orks without unwelcome results. Maybe orks need violence to live? The lack of peaceful orks should give you a hint.

This mind control thing may work for Tau ( etherals ) or their insects ( vespids ), but orks?
If such is an option, manipulative races like Eldar would have used orks this way. But they didin't, cause they know better than to taint
every planet 'your' ork is on with more and uncontrolled orks.

OTOH, Tau would be naive enough to awaken with their empire overrun with ork 'slaves'.,......

CrazyThang wrote:

I believe someone has misunderstood someone.

I'm not saying the Tau don't have great tech, quite the opposite. Your comparisons (though unfair to Eldar >:C ) are good, but I was pointing to out that humans in most stuff I have seen tend to have vastly inferior tech to <insert alien race here> so comparing stereotypical sci-fi humans to Tau is kinda unfair to Tau because Tau stuff is so advanced. Sorry if this still isn't clear.

It tends to be a mixture. While encountering highly advanced races, other Sci-Fi humans tend to run into the exact opposite in the form of primitives. In some areas human technology outstrips Tau, but human tech is in decline, Tau tecnology isn't. The same could be said with Sci-Fi humans and their experimental weaponry. However, it's more the naive approach to the galaxy and their place in it that mirrors the humans in other Sci-Fi areas than technological aspects.

Again in a bit more detail.
The Emperor says so :3

Actually that tidbit about Slannesh came from a White Dwarf circa Tau release.

I am aware of the Aun being blatant example of interference but the hints felt like it was a case of the Old Ones having one last failsafe to stop their final creation from going all the way off the rails. I also never felt that Ethereal's mindcontrol ability thingy was really that grimdark. I mean everyone else seems to get possession or multiple-personality social orders.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Wouldn't they fulfill the same role as the Kroot except be better at it?

Sounds like some awfully expensive bait.

Tarkand wrote:

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

Orks are pretty much useless out of combat. They were breed to fight.
You could get cheap 'muscles' with AI, who would not dare to rebel ( except the necrons take over...) and the tech addiction of Tau seems not to fit with brutish workers of simple minds. So what should an ork provide, when not swinging choppas?

Wouldn't they fulfill the same role as the Kroot except be better at
it?

This is miss quoted as I wasen't the one who said it.

In response to what was said earlier about me "avoiding" the recruitment cost of the process I've done no such thing. I didn't think I had to address it simply because the Tau are one of if not the most productive race in the 40k universe so the parts needed for controle would be manufactored just as easily as Drones are. As far as how the Tau would aquire the Orks that are used it's simple, collect the spores from a dead Ork, encourage them to grow in a controled environment and go from there.

As far as the Ork center of free thought not being in their brains due to being part fungal I highly doubt it as there would be no reason for it, why would the Old Ones have put it in any other place then the Orks brain?. And even if they did I've got a real simple solution for it "the Tau scientists examining the Orks body find where the center is" I mean they're able to develop advanced technology I think they are able to perform a simple search of an Orks body to find it's ceneter of free will and thought (which again has no reason to be outside the brain). The fungal aspect of Orks is represented in their ability to absorb incredible amounts of damage and live, their method of reproduction and their resistance to hostile environments.

As far as basic instincts yes the Orks do use them but then so does every other race in the galaxy but free will can over ride instincts in intelligent life forms (it feels weird calling the Orks intelligent but technicly they are they just aren't civilised). And agan basic instincts are controled by the sections of the brain (or nerve clusters/stems in lesser creatures). So I point out AGAIN that the relative parts of the Ork brain are replaced by components which enable the Tau to controle them. These aren't restraint devices where if the Ork acts up they get a shock. They are living creatures with cybernetic brains controlled by seperate source.

The Eldar aren't that kind of race. They don't have a drive to unite all races under a common cause so they would have no need to perform that type of procedure on an Ork. especially when they can just trick the Orks into doing what they want anyway.

^ He said it.

The Tau are extremely efficient and very creative. Of all the races in 40k, they're the only race that actually strives to advance themselves scientifically. Orks can only build what's hardcoded into their DNA, Eldar do everything they want with Wraithbone (stereotypical Space Elves right there, get your technology up to a level then don't make a single scientific advance for thousands (millions even) of years). The Imperium fears technology that they don't have an STC for. Necrons are advancing technologically, but very slowly and only when they really need to (see: Pariahs). Nids don't really have technology, per se, they just evolve extremely quickly. Chaos does everything with Warpstuff.

That's one of the many, many reasons I love the Tau.

Oh, and to actually make a point... that's why they'd have no issue turning an Ork into a dronebody.

I practically live on the Eastern fringe there are a ton of Tau players down here ! Besides a space wolves , blood angels , Chaos, and another guard it's the only army to play when you can find a game or anyone shows.

Kroothawk wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss
"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

Good thing that capitalism works so extremely well in practice ... at least for a handful of bankers that is

Well a moderated compromise between socialism(NOT communism, big difference) and capitalism seems to be a good alternative. Yes, this means high taxes. Yes, this means free healthcare/education. Look at Sweden. Ridiculously high taxes, but good healthcare, free higher education, great vacation times from work(are you a new father? Go ahead, take a extremely long break to spend some time with your baby). It's all a matter of opinions.

micahaphone wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

micahaphone wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Man Liberty Prime needs to step in this thread and teach you commies who's boss
"COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE."

duh. Mildly possible in theory, but EPIC FAIL in practice. communism sucks baals(predators)

Good thing that capitalism works so extremely well in practice ... at least for a handful of bankers that is

Well a moderated compromise between socialism(NOT communism, big difference) and capitalism seems to be a good alternative. Yes, this means high taxes. Yes, this means free healthcare/education. Look at Sweden. Ridiculously high taxes, but good healthcare, free higher education, great vacation times from work(are you a new father? Go ahead, take a extremely long break to spend some time with your baby). It's all a matter of opinions.

I think some of it does depend on what you want from your society, but I don't think this is really the best place to discuss politics.

I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

kronk wrote:I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

Six feet, actually.

72" range.

The almighty railgun can in fact hit literally anything on the board. Unless they're in the corner. Then they can't hit the far corner.

And I love it.

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:

.............snip.......................

In response to what was said earlier about me "avoiding" the recruitment cost of the process I've done no such thing. I didn't think I had to address it simply because the Tau are one of if not the most productive race in the 40k universe so the parts needed for controle would be manufactored just as easily as Drones are. As far as how the Tau would aquire the Orks that are used it's simple, collect the spores from a dead Ork, encourage them to grow in a controled environment and go from there.


The Eldar aren't that kind of race. They don't have a drive to unite all races under a common cause so they would have no need to perform that type of procedure on an Ork. especially when they can just trick the Orks into doing what they want anyway.

Most productive you say? Any proof of that?

Lets see. Tau got drones. Why should 'ork-drones' contribute more than pure drones?
If they wanted CC oriented drones, they could make some. Plus tech allows to fit weapons on, needs no food, has no morale to care for,
etc etc...
Where are the benefits of 'ork-drones' ?

But there are the drawbacks, did mention one major of them, ie spores of orks everywhere and soon orks at every sept world.
From the POV of an human, yes Tau should attempt to do 'ork-drones', lots of fun for us to look at the Greater good replaced by greater
waagh.....

IMHO, Tau were meant to have no real CC unit. Adding CC experts ( orks ) sounds a bit like grabbing the whole cake and trying to run away with it....

Its nice to have you agree that Eldar would get their will with tricks. Now if you just admit that those space elfs aren't willing to
control the uncontrollable with tech.....

Because it should have been codex mercenaries with a heavy focus on kroot.

Kroot are twenty times more awesome then tau.

And just to point out with what SaintHazard said the Eldar are even losing their knowledge of how to maintain and create their technology. Their codex even says this.

SaintHazard wrote:

kronk wrote:I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

Six feet, actually.

72" range.

The almighty railgun can in fact hit literally anything on the board. Unless they're in the corner. Then they can't hit the far corner.

And I love it.

Basilisks.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

kronk wrote:I'm not reading 7 pages to see how tau-hate turned to communism/capitalism debates. Seriously guys, STFU about that crap.

Begin Jealous

Tau suck because they can take out a monolyth and land raider with the almighty rail-gun from the safety of 4 feet away.

End Jealous

Six feet, actually.

72" range.

The almighty railgun can in fact hit literally anything on the board. Unless they're in the corner. Then they can't hit the far corner.

And I love it.

Basilisks.

Deathstrike missiles
(from the other table in the adjacent room, obviously )

Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

SaintHazard wrote:Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

Not even, armor dies once someone decides to deploy it and not hold it in reserve.

only time Armor stands a welk's chance in a supernova is when they are held in reserve.

Case in point: had a "CRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!" moment with my Tau a few days ago, my outflanking pathfinders where outflanked by 3 'russes the turn after they outflanked (was quite the "lolwut" moment). It was truly a tactical genius move, because the squad of XV8s i had in reserve scattered, and was lost to the warp.




Edit: 7 pages of Tau hating? Geeze dakka

Got to page 5, and have to say I never cared much for Tau really. But after reading to page 5 I kinda want to start a Tau army, if not just for the shiny models from FW.

I do think they fit in with 40k but I think the only thing that I have a gripe with is that they appeared from no where and are very high on the tech. How could they go unnoticed??. I havent read any fluff on them, so I don't know if they have had past encounters with any of the others races that introduces them slowly into the world of 40k. If you know what I mean.

Eberious wrote:Got to page 5, and have to say I never cared much for Tau really. But after reading to page 5 I kinda want to start a Tau army, if not just for the shiny models from FW.

I do think they fit in with 40k but I think the only thing that I have a gripe with is that they appeared from no where and are very high on the tech. How could they go unnoticed??. I havent read any fluff on them, so I don't know if they have had past encounters with any of the others races that introduces them slowly into the world of 40k. If you know what I mean.

Actually, this is one of my least favorite parts of their fluff.

They went unnoticed for a couple thousand years due to a warp storm forcing Imperial ships to travel around T'au.

Before this happened, an Ad Mech ship did discover T'au, but the only creatures living there were primitive and not even worth a second glance from the Imperium. Cue warp storm.

Five thousand years later, the Tau have rapidly evolved, developed stunning technology, come under the auspices of the Ethereals, and begun to expand after the warp storm has abated.

It all sounds very contrived, but there it is.

Considering that fluctuations of the warp are frequently the work of Gods, then I'd say that Yes, the Tau only exist because of a classical case of Deus Ex Machina.

That would answer my wondering. cheers SaintHazard.

Am I off base for wondering why people are comparing Tau technology to the Necrons and Eldar? Aren't those two literally leagues ahead of all others? I had kind of gotten the impression that Tau technology was actually really comparable to the Imperium in terms of 'advanced-ness'.

The Tau strengths for technology is that they have their stuff together and are still advancing quickly. They have good, powerful and safe equipment they give to all their troops. The Imperium has powerful and dangerous (to the user) weapons and a fighting force of variable quality gear.

No?

More or less correct, especially since Necrons don't die and the Eldar's idea of manufacturing is to sing until Hell starts spitting out bone, I'd say Eldar and Necrons can be considered leaps and bounds beyond Tau or Human technology.

As for Tau versus Mankind, I disagree. Mankind used to have some pretty spiffy stuff, until the Dark Age, then it lost around 95% of it. Now we're left with the same goddamn technology for the last ten thousand years. The Tau, on the other hand, have gone from sticks and stones to pulse rifles and jetpacks over the course of about five thousand years, and if special issue wargear is any indication, the trend continues. Not to mention Tau technology typically beats the crap out of human technology. When every vehicle is a skimmer and your basic infantry have armor comparable to a Space Marine scout, you're a bit ahead of the guys with cardboard vests and tanks on caterpillar treads. And basic infantry weapons? S5 AP5 30" versus S3 AP- 24"?

Yeah, the Tau got a leg up on Mankind, for sure.

Well at least the IoM can afford to bleed on the tau until they drown. That's how the IG usually win...

Yes Necron and Eldar technology can be considered ahead of that of the Tau but at the same time those 2 factions have been around longer then the Tau and have had more time to develop their technology. But the Tau are one of the most rapidly adapting races in terms of technology, if the Tau have a problem they overcome it with science. They are advancing in terms of technology far faster then any other race.

As far as I know the Necrons aren't developing anything new as they don't need to, they are their technology. The Eldars level of tech is actually declining because the methods of maintaining and creating some of the more advanced examples are being lost. Although their technology is still far ahead of the Imperium I woulden't say it's that far ahead of the Tau, the only things they still have advantages in are psyker based.

As was said before the Imperium once had amazing technology including jetbikes and such. But this was lost and now they are left replicating basic designs without understanding how they work or being able to advance upon what they do have because of superstition. Those advancments that they do have are just variations of the same thing and to my knowledge have mostly been pioneered by the Space Marines (in example the Land Raider Crusader variant created by the Black Templars).

So while some of the other races are still farther along then the Tau the Tau are known for their technology simply because they are making advancments at such a rapid pace.

Because at the end of the day, nobody likes a anime fan. (W33aboo doesn't mean anime fan...)

I would also like to add in that the Nightbringer's shooting attack is S9 AP2 24" inches.

Railgun is a S10 AP1 72" weapon. So yeah tau probably have the advantage when it comes to tech.

"Because at the end of the day, nobody likes a anime fan. "

I still dont get the anime thing, then again I don't watch any so maybe tau are exactly like it

SaintHazard wrote:Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

Turn 1? At a table worth playing on?
Ever heard of opening firing at maximum effective range? Look up the stats again...

Plus, using Tech seems fine, until you realize that tech can be located, whilst artillery can silently wait for you.

asimo77 wrote:Well at least the IoM can afford to bleed on the tau until they drown. That's how the IG usually win...

Well said


IMO, the story of a race isn't a undisturbed line of achievements and victorys. The Tau are maybe too young to have their problems yet,
but time will stop for no one and we shall see their fall.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

CrazyThang wrote:

I believe someone has misunderstood someone.

I'm not saying the Tau don't have great tech, quite the opposite. Your comparisons (though unfair to Eldar >:C ) are good, but I was pointing to out that humans in most stuff I have seen tend to have vastly inferior tech to <insert alien race here> so comparing stereotypical sci-fi humans to Tau is kinda unfair to Tau because Tau stuff is so advanced. Sorry if this still isn't clear.

It tends to be a mixture. While encountering highly advanced races, other Sci-Fi humans tend to run into the exact opposite in the form of primitives. In some areas human technology outstrips Tau, but human tech is in decline, Tau tecnology isn't. The same could be said with Sci-Fi humans and their experimental weaponry. However, it's more the naive approach to the galaxy and their place in it that mirrors the humans in other Sci-Fi areas than technological aspects.

Good point.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

My opinion is that the Ehtereals are latent psychics and don't want anyone to know; that's why each Tau fleet has an overlord/ethereal present.

OR

They use intricate planning, thus the phased expansion plans. Regional headquarters that utilize constant relayed communications between outposts. Each commander is given a specific goal and free reign to complete it, this is how Farsight was able to go rogue so easily; it took a while for word to get back to HQ and by then it was too late. Reading the fluff, the Tau expansions seem like constant OMG! moments; "Hey, there's a planet and look there's these green guys trying to kill us." (met Orks) or "Look there, it's a spherical ship under attack, let's go help them and see if they're likable." (met the Kroot) or "Hey, there's this huge fleet of ships full of bugs trying to munch our brains, I wonder where they came from." (Tau meet nids) or "We ran across some worlds full of aliens that don't mind trading with us but are afraid some some group called spehs meerines" (Tau meet humans).

I don't know about psychics, but they do release a pheromone that makes the Tau susceptible to their influence. That's probably why Farsight's conclave actually have personalities now.

Because they suck.

Terminus wrote:I don't know about psychics, but they do release a pheromone that makes the Tau susceptible to their influence. That's probably why Farsight's conclave actually have personalities now.

That's the idea.

The idea is also that Farsight found out about the Ethereals' penchant for mind control, and thus decided to leave The Collective.

Don't worry. Shadowsun's got it. They'll be re-assimilated before too long.

agnosto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Furthering my previous post: Does anyone know how Tau communicate interstellarly? The don't have psychics and radio waves take a while.

My opinion is that the Ehtereals are latent psychics and don't want anyone to know; that's why each Tau fleet has an overlord/ethereal present.

OR

They use intricate planning, thus the phased expansion plans. Regional headquarters that utilize constant relayed communications between outposts. Each commander is given a specific goal and free reign to complete it, this is how Farsight was able to go rogue so easily; it took a while for word to get back to HQ and by then it was too late. Reading the fluff, the Tau expansions seem like constant OMG! moments; "Hey, there's a planet and look there's these green guys trying to kill us." (met Orks) or "Look there, it's a spherical ship under attack, let's go help them and see if they're likable." (met the Kroot) or "Hey, there's this huge fleet of ships full of bugs trying to munch our brains, I wonder where they came from." (Tau meet nids) or "We ran across some worlds full of aliens that don't mind trading with us but are afraid some some group called spehs meerines" (Tau meet humans).

Its been posted already. The Tau use Warp courier drones, despite all their technology the Imperium has better interstellar communications, Astropaths can transmit instantaneusly, while the drones have to fly through the warp and then transmit to a relay when it reaches Tau space. Its another reason why Farsight was able to go Rogue, the drones reporting the message had to get all the way back to T'au, as his betrayal was initially hushed up.

Astropaths can communicate instantly until the Emperor dies and the Astronomican ceases to be lit.

Next edition, hopefully?

SaintHazard wrote:Astropaths can communicate instantly until the Emperor dies and the Astronomican ceases to be lit.

Next edition, hopefully?

Too bad the Emperor increases the range of the astronomican but it doesn't need him to work.
Plus the immortal God Emperor can't die.

Next edition we'll see GW fall back to M30, as M42 isn't viable anymore after several fluff 'improvements' of their greatest codiciers of 5th ed.

From http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astronomican:

"Although the Emperor does not provide the energy of the beacon, only he has the psychic power to handle such immense energy and direct it across the galaxy."

Technically you're right, but if the Emperor died (and He will) the Imperium would be reduced to, basically, the Sol system.

I'm really hoping he DOES die next edition. A fragmented Imperium would be fun.

SaintHazard wrote:I'm really hoping he DOES die next edition. A fragmented Imperium would be fun.

I doubt the 'fun' of the bazillions of non-combatants suffering from this.

=> "united we stand, divided we fall"

If youre interested in a 6th ed, (with moar skulls and superultragrimdark), consisting of a galaxy burning in the fire of hell unleashed (the warp),
a 'dead' Emperor would be the way to go. But I somehow fail to appreciate the 'deus et machina' GW would use to keep the codices viable.

SaintHazard wrote:Uh huh. Tout your weak-ass pie plates and your missile (singular!) that takes twenty turns to fire all you want, a 72" S10 AP 1 shot will poke a hole in your Basilisk or Deathstrike around, oh... turn 1?

How about, I bring 2 of them and:

A) Stick them behind a building and Indirect Fire (hits side armour, but scatters like hell if unlucky)

or

B) Stay anywhere between 100" to 360" (A couple of tables) away from you and shoot as much as I like.

SaintHazard wrote:
I'm really hoping he DOES die next edition. A fragmented Imperium would be fun.

I am reading your Army lists. I call bias.

I don't really like the Tau cause from a fluff POV the entire race seems kinda pointless. We all know no faction is ever going to WIN 40K but what's the point of having zero chance at all. All other factions have some grand plan / scheme to conquer the galaxy or slay all other beings, the Tau want to hmmm expand the border of their teensy little Empire? In a fictional universe characterized by wanton excess and where everything is done a scale that's absolutely mental, the Tau don't really fit in. I can more imagine them in say Star Trek.

Win = Survival.
However, even in this regard Tau seem to have the slimmest chance. Heck, Eldar will probably outlast them.

Emperors Faithful wrote:How about, I bring 2 of them and:

A) Stick them behind a building and Indirect Fire (hits side armour, but scatters like hell if unlucky)

or

B) Stay anywhere between 100" to 360" (A couple of tables) away from you and shoot as much as I like.

On a standard 72" by 36" board, I invite you to do your best!

Emperors Faithful wrote:I am reading your Army lists. I call bias.

Actually, my Traitor Guard used to be loyalists (in fluff), and my Space Marines are the largest of my armies... and that's not including my totally separate Deathwatch army, so... I have a few Xeno and heretic armies, but I still play Imperium.

Kind of.

Even though my Space Marines are for sale and my Guards are Traitors.

...I guess I don't really play Imperium much at all.

Heh.

I like Tau, hell the FW oh-my-god models are what kickstarted my FW addiction - the AX1-0 being an utter beast of a plane, shas'o r'myr and the sexy broadsides. mmmm.

IT was a good way to shoe horn them in - and their rate of technological progression means they could become dangerous on a galaxy wide scale, if they can just crack necron-style FTL (i.e. non warp) travel.

SaintHazard wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:How about, I bring 2 of them and:

A) Stick them behind a building and Indirect Fire (hits side armour, but scatters like hell if unlucky)

or

B) Stay anywhere between 100" to 360" (A couple of tables) away from you and shoot as much as I like.

On a standard 72" by 36" board, I invite you to do your best!

I'm sorry, is that the sound of NEEDING LOS?
(Seriously though, how much does your average thingo cost?)

Emperors Faithful wrote:I am reading your Army lists. I call bias.

Actually, my Traitor Guard used to be loyalists (in fluff), and my Space Marines are the largest of my armies... and that's not including my totally separate Deathwatch army, so... I have a few Xeno and heretic armies, but I still play Imperium.

Kind of.

Even though my Space Marines are for sale and my Guards are Traitors.

...I guess I don't really play Imperium much at all.

Heh.

Bit by bit the truth comes out. BTW, to become a traitor you have to have been a loyalist to start with. That's the whole point behind the treachery thing. Heretics are different.

That's the point, they were.

As for needing LOS, well... TLOS makes that virtually a non-issue with vehicles. Go ahead, try to hide that enormous Leman Russ behind blocking terrain, I dare you!

SaintHazard wrote:That's the point, they were.

Yes. You said that your traitor guard used to be loyalist. That's equivalent to saying "My Guys-who-used-to-work-for-the-Emperor-but-now-work-for-Chaos once used to work for the Emperor." I was just pointing out the obvious aspect of the statement.

As for needing LOS, well... TLOS makes that virtually a non-issue with vehicles. Go ahead, try to hide that enormous Leman Russ behind blocking terrain, I dare you!

It's been done. I gak you not. But a basilisk is more manageable, Truth be told. And cheaper.

Haven't you heard? I recently got a job at the Department of Redundancy Department.

Yes, it can be done, but it's difficult. Add ASS, and my Broadsides can take a little walk until they can see you, anyway.

Not to mention that hammerheads are skimmer-tanks.... With the right equipment, they can move 12 and shoot their main gun...

agnosto wrote:Not to mention that hammerheads are skimmer-tanks.... With the right equipment, they can move 12 and shoot their main gun...

You mean with the MANDATORY equipment, 'cause any Tau player who doesn't put a Multi-Tracker on his Hammerheads is on crack.

Tau give me the most trouble because of their mobility and high firepower, but really like their concept (yes I'm an anime fan, haters gonna hate)

I don't hate them and I think XV-8s are awesome. Why infact today I watched Tau play SM and enjoyed seeing the Tau commander hold his ground against Shrike and the command squad of cheese (chaplain, champion, shrike, bikes and an apothecary). I also like it that they're the only faction that the imperium has diplomatic relations with besides PURGE AND CLEANSE because frankly grimdark only war chaotic stupid gets stale after a while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:Not to mention that hammerheads are skimmer-tanks.... With the right equipment, they can move 12 and shoot their main gun...

Disruption pods... f*ck disruption pods. They make anything but melta vets (as guard) unusable.

Actually, I was talking about multi-trackers but DPs are the other mandatory piece of wargear. Best 5 points in the game.

agnosto wrote:Actually, I was talking about multi-trackers but DPs are the other mandatory piece of wargear. Best 5 points in the game.

I lost a game because of disruption pods...

But yes, Multi trackers are vital as well

I love Dispods.

I had a CSM player fire a pair of TL Lascannons (LR) at my side armor on my Hammerhead, thinking he had me. There was no intervening terrain. He rolled two hits, rolled two pens, and was shocked as hell when I picked up two dice and rolled two cover saves, and made them both. Yes, he was about 36" away.



God I love Dispods.

I never got why devilfish were so expensive and d-pods so cheap. But man, f-ing disruption pods....

Terminus wrote:

Waagh!Balzsmasha! wrote:. I hate the the Tau because I hate communism. My stomach turns at the merest thought. i do realize it is a game but its me I just cant do it. Communism is just too real and present.

I do hope you're joking here, otherwise I'm even sadder at the state of the educational system in this country.

I know. Can this website produce one page about the Tau without someone erroneously calling them communists? Another thread ruined by Marx! Damn you Marx!

It's not the erroneous labeling of Tau that annoyed me (hell, it aggravates Tau players to no end, so I'm all for it. Ad hominem for life!), but rather the complete and utter lack of understanding about what communism really is. I mean, come on, it's "just too real and present"? How ignorant can you get?

Terminus wrote:It's not the erroneous labeling of Tau that annoyed me (hell, it aggravates Tau players to no end, so I'm all for it. Ad hominem for life!), but rather the complete and utter lack of understanding about what communism really is. I mean, come on, it's "just too real and present"? How ignorant can you get?

It is not exactly a labeling, it is more an emotional response of hatred to something alien. That's why Americans call Tau communists and Europeans call them Nazis, everyone according to his personal stereotypes. Therefore all these ridiculous contradictory "Damn liberal Hindu anime commie nazis led by a pope, curse those peace loving fish-cow-men doing massacres and genocides all the time" posts

SaintHazard wrote:

agnosto wrote:Not to mention that hammerheads are skimmer-tanks.... With the right equipment, they can move 12 and shoot their main gun...

You mean with the MANDATORY equipment, 'cause any Tau player who doesn't put a Multi-Tracker on his Hammerheads is on crack.

Guilty. Apparently that wasn't sugar I was putting in my drink But honestly I haven't seen any situations where my HH's needed to move besides podding marines/dreads.

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

agnosto wrote:Not to mention that hammerheads are skimmer-tanks.... With the right equipment, they can move 12 and shoot their main gun...

You mean with the MANDATORY equipment, 'cause any Tau player who doesn't put a Multi-Tracker on his Hammerheads is on crack.

Guilty. Apparently that wasn't sugar I was putting in my drink But honestly I haven't seen any situations where my HH's needed to move besides podding marines/dreads.

1) Like you said, podding Marines/Dreads
2) Deep-striking Oblits
3) Deep-striking Crisis suits
4) Deep-striking Assault Marines
5) Getting line of sight on trickier targets
6) Getting the extra few inches sometimes required to pop a target in the far corner
7) Repositioning to avoid advancing... anything

I could go on.

SaintHazard wrote:

ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

agnosto wrote:Not to mention that hammerheads are skimmer-tanks.... With the right equipment, they can move 12 and shoot their main gun...

You mean with the MANDATORY equipment, 'cause any Tau player who doesn't put a Multi-Tracker on his Hammerheads is on crack.

Guilty. Apparently that wasn't sugar I was putting in my drink But honestly I haven't seen any situations where my HH's needed to move besides podding marines/dreads.

1) Like you said, podding Marines/Dreads
2) Deep-striking Oblits
3) Deep-striking Crisis suits
4) Deep-striking Assault Marines
5) Getting line of sight on trickier targets
6) Getting the extra few inches sometimes required to pop a target in the far corner
7) Repositioning to avoid advancing... anything

I could go on.

People Ignore Hammerheads when they fail to kill anything. I don't even bother with Disruption Pods on mine anymore. It never gets shot at because it never kills anything.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:People Ignore Hammerheads when they fail to kill anything. I don't even bother with Disruption Pods on mine anymore. It never gets shot at because it never kills anything.

Yours, maybe. My ionheads are very killy, though, and become priority targets in a hurry.

I actually think that the Tau are the most evil army ideaology wise, I mean, the Empire is just a group of xeno-phobic fascists who will kill any alien they see, the Tyranids just want to eat everything, the Orks just want a good fight, the Eldar just want their galaxy back, the Necrons want to destroy all life, and Chaos just want's everyone to worship them. But the Tau? They want to convert you into their empire, wherein you have to do what they say for what they say is their own and your own good, you have no choice in the matter. It's like complete abolition of individual freedoms and such. It just rubs me the wrong way.

As for design, I actually really like the look and playstyle of the Tau, they are kind of what modern western armies want to be.

Ratbarf wrote:I actually think that the Tau are the most evil army ideaology wise, I mean, the Empire is just a group of xeno-phobic fascists who will kill any alien they see, the Tyranids just want to eat everything, the Orks just want a good fight, the Eldar just want their galaxy back, the Necrons want to destroy all life, and Chaos just want's everyone to worship them. But the Tau? They want to convert you into their empire, wherein you have to do what they say for what they say is their own and your own good, you have no choice in the matter. It's like complete abolition of individual freedoms and such. It just rubs me the wrong way.

GW's original designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.(emphasis by me)

Yeah how utterly evil! Take the Kroot: They are so subjugated that they can't even work as mercenaries ... wait!

Sorry to bother people with facts

SaintHazard wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:People Ignore Hammerheads when they fail to kill anything. I don't even bother with Disruption Pods on mine anymore. It never gets shot at because it never kills anything.

Yours, maybe. My ionheads are very killy, though, and become priority targets in a hurry.

I call my Hammerhead the S.S Useless for a reason. Over the past like 2 years I've had it, It has always, without fail, rolled nothing but ones no matter the circumstance.

Kroothawk wrote:

Ratbarf wrote:I actually think that the Tau are the most evil army ideaology wise, I mean, the Empire is just a group of xeno-phobic fascists who will kill any alien they see, the Tyranids just want to eat everything, the Orks just want a good fight, the Eldar just want their galaxy back, the Necrons want to destroy all life, and Chaos just want's everyone to worship them. But the Tau? They want to convert you into their empire, wherein you have to do what they say for what they say is their own and your own good, you have no choice in the matter. It's like complete abolition of individual freedoms and such. It just rubs me the wrong way.

GW's original designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.(emphasis by me)

Yeah how utterly evil! Take the Kroot: They are so subjugated that they can't even work as mercenaries ... wait!

Sorry to bother people with facts

Actually the Kroot aren't allowed to work as mercenaries. Kroot mercenaries go to lengths to avoid contact with the Tau, lest the Tau find out about it and stomp their guts out for it. Page 17, Codex: Tau Empire, the entire fourth paragraph.

In fact, Kroot aren't allowed to do anything at all other than be bait. Page 12, under "Kauyon - Patient Hunter." Fourth sentence.

Only their Shapers are allowed to use Tau equipment, but even that is limited to pulse rifles and pulse carbines.

Vespids are allowed to use Tau gear and act as shock troops and interceptors, but the extent of their Tau gear is their weapons, and the Strain Leader's communion helm, which is actually probably a Tau mind control device... and the key to their conquest of the Vespid homeworld. Page 16, sixth paragraph. They're shown to be wearing Tau armor as well, but since they only get a 5+ armor save, it's reasonable to infer that it's far inferior to that worn by Fire Warriors and even the more scantily armored Pathfinders (which still get a 4+ save).

So yeah, if you're going to claim to "bother people with facts," why don't you... oh, I don't know... bother people with facts? Instead of making stuff up off the top of your head?

In fact, I can't help but ask... have you read the Tau codex? You seem to know very little about them, despite having a Kroot avatar and username "Kroothawk."

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:I think alot of people dislike Tau because they think that they appeal to the anime fans which dosen't really fit with the 40k setting. They also associate them with communism due to their practices, and in the same light the Imperium could be seen as a ignorant tyranical body.

Isn't the Imperium communist?
BTW communism is good.
In before everyone rages

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:People Ignore Hammerheads when they fail to kill anything. I don't even bother with Disruption Pods on mine anymore. It never gets shot at because it never kills anything.

Yours, maybe. My ionheads are very killy, though, and become priority targets in a hurry.

I call my Hammerhead the S.S Useless for a reason. Over the past like 2 years I've had it, It has always, without fail, rolled nothing but ones no matter the circumstance.

Heh. I call my Land Raider the Faildozer...

My space marines hate Ionheads. So much.

I have a friend who once played Tau and he used his railhead twice, the second time was because he lacked a devilfish. Much more useful, got more kills too...

Terminus wrote:It's not the erroneous labeling of Tau that annoyed me (hell, it aggravates Tau players to no end, so I'm all for it. Ad hominem for life!), but rather the complete and utter lack of understanding about what communism really is. I mean, come on, it's "just too real and present"? How ignorant can you get?

How can you say that? What with the Soviet Union's invasion of Afganistan it's obvious the nations of Europe and Asia will fall to communism like dominos!!!

Yeah how utterly evil! Take the Kroot: They are so subjugated that they can't even work as mercenaries ... wait!

The thing is they don't even realize they have been subjugated, thats how complete the conquest was. The extra mercenary units that the shapers send out is for the survival of the kroot race and greater genetic diversity. If the Tau had the Kroots best interests in heart, you would think they would have taken that into consideration and given them their blessing.

SaintHazard wrote:Actually the Kroot aren't allowed to work as mercenaries. Kroot mercenaries go to lengths to avoid contact with the Tau, lest the Tau find out about it and stomp their guts out for it. Page 17, Codex: Tau Empire, the entire fourth paragraph.

In fact, Kroot aren't allowed to do anything at all other than be bait. Page 12, under "Kauyon - Patient Hunter." Fourth sentence.
(...)
So yeah, if you're going to claim to "bother people with facts," why don't you... oh, I don't know... bother people with facts? Instead of making stuff up off the top of your head?

In fact, I can't help but ask... have you read the Tau codex? You seem to know very little about them, despite having a Kroot avatar and username "Kroothawk."

Well, I missed the parts of the Tau Codex that you invented, like the passage about Tau stomping the guts out of the Kroot and Kroot aren't allowed to do anything but serve as bait (actually this honourable role is often taken by blood pact Tau Warriors, as the bait is meant to always survive!).
Yeah, not finding the parts of the Codex that you obviously invented really deserves all the trolling, thanks
Bad luck for you that I always check the sources and actually read what is written there

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Terminus wrote:It's not the erroneous labeling of Tau that annoyed me (hell, it aggravates Tau players to no end, so I'm all for it. Ad hominem for life!), but rather the complete and utter lack of understanding about what communism really is. I mean, come on, it's "just too real and present"? How ignorant can you get?

How can you say that? What with the Soviet Union's invasion of Afganistan it's obvious the nations of Europe and Asia will fall to communism like dominos!!!

Oh, right. The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, therefore Tau are communists, riiight. Totally convincing

Ratbarf wrote:

Yeah how utterly evil! Take the Kroot: They are so subjugated that they can't even work as mercenaries ... wait!

The thing is they don't even realize they have been subjugated, thats how complete the conquest was.

And the Tau are so damned sneaky with their subjugation that even the designers of the race don't know they subjugate, riiight!

Sometimes, exposing the little tricks of Tau haters is no challenge at all.

Well, I missed the parts of the Tau Codex that you invented, like the passage about Tau stomping the guts out of the Kroot and Kroot aren't allowed to do anything but serve as bait (actually this honourable role is often taken by blood pact Tau Warriors, as the bait is meant to always survive!).
Yeah, not finding the parts of the Codex that you obviously invented really deserves all the trolling, thanks
Bad luck for you that I always check the sources and actually read what is written there

Actually the info is correct but the location was wrong, its from the old Kroot Mercenaries codex.

I hate tau because they look like fish.. And CAPTAIN PLANET!
all mixed in with communist beliefs.

I dislike the frequent communist parallels people dredge up.

For one thing they act more like facists with their internal policies, and secondly there's no massive spank about them desiring equality amongst all the proleteriat.

The Caste system pretty much moots all the Space Commies arguments because Commies don't believe in caste system, they just operate on one...

Ratbarf wrote:

Well, I missed the parts of the Tau Codex that you invented, like the passage about Tau stomping the guts out of the Kroot and Kroot aren't allowed to do anything but serve as bait (actually this honourable role is often taken by blood pact Tau Warriors, as the bait is meant to always survive!).
Yeah, not finding the parts of the Codex that you obviously invented really deserves all the trolling, thanks
Bad luck for you that I always check the sources and actually read what is written there

Actually the info is correct but the location was wrong, its from the old Kroot Mercenaries codex.

Bad luck again, as I read that, too. Only reference is the following sentence:

Their integration into the Tau empire requires them to provide troops to the Tau military, and furthermore attempts to prohibit them from fighting alongside the armies of other races.

"Attempts to prohibit" is not the same as "massacre everyone who does". Even the NATO wouldn't like their soldiers to fight for the enemy (Kroot have worked for Orks, Imperium and Chaos). And the very existence of a Kroot Mercenary Codex proves you wrong.

So if you like to discredit armies with made up stuff, better chose armies that I don't play (i.e. not Tau, Kroot, Eldar, Tyranids, and Inquisition).

And to all Tau=commie posters: Do you really think that the working class which is part of the Earth caste, is the ruling class of the Tau?

Kroothawk wrote:


And to all Tau=commie posters: Do you really think that the working class which is part of the Earth caste, is the ruling class of the Tau?

Yes, the IoM will support the earth caste to take over as primary ruling class

Since we hear that all castes are claimed to be equal, the earth caste would be as much partaking in ruling the Tau than any other.
But we know thats not the case, as a 'working class' would never be the ruling class, not in 40k nor reallife.

So, an 'utopia' without a chance of realisation should disprove anything....

Its entertaining
these attempts to plainly ignore the codex, because the implications have changed from 1st to 2nd.

Kroothawk wrote:

Ratbarf wrote:

Well, I missed the parts of the Tau Codex that you invented, like the passage about Tau stomping the guts out of the Kroot and Kroot aren't allowed to do anything but serve as bait (actually this honourable role is often taken by blood pact Tau Warriors, as the bait is meant to always survive!).
Yeah, not finding the parts of the Codex that you obviously invented really deserves all the trolling, thanks
Bad luck for you that I always check the sources and actually read what is written there

Actually the info is correct but the location was wrong, its from the old Kroot Mercenaries codex.

Bad luck again, as I read that, too. Only reference is the following sentence:

Their integration into the Tau empire requires them to provide troops to the Tau military, and furthermore attempts to prohibit them from fighting alongside the armies of other races.

"Attempts to prohibit" is not the same as "massacre everyone who does". Even the NATO wouldn't like their soldiers to fight for the enemy (Kroot have worked for Orks, Imperium and Chaos). And the very existence of a Kroot Mercenary Codex proves you wrong.

Not really. The Tau doen't acknowledge or approve of the Kroot Mercenary, hence it's existence is a sign of Kroot resistance (or at least a nonchalant atitude towards Tau teachings). "Stomp the Guts out of" is a little strong, but it doesn't equal "Massacre everyone who does". The Tau certainly aren't happy about it, so just what exactly do you think they do in their "attempts" to stop Kroot Mercenaries?

So if you like to discredit armies with made up stuff, better chose armies that I don't play (i.e. not Tau, Kroot, Eldar, Tyranids, and Inquisition).

And to all Tau=commie posters: Do you really think that the working class which is part of the Earth caste, is the ruling class of the Tau?

I haven't actually called Tau Communists, and neither has Saint Hazard. You don't have to be Communist to be a domineering regime, and I find the posts of some users here quite entertaining.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Not really. The Tau doen't acknowledge or approve of the Kroot Mercenary, hence it's existence is a sign of Kroot resistance (or at least a nonchalant atitude towards Tau teachings). "Stomp the Guts out of" is a little strong, but it doesn't equal "Massacre everyone who does". The Tau certainly aren't happy about it, so just what exactly do you think they do in their "attempts" to stop Kroot Mercenaries?

1.) Kroot always worked as mercenaries and used the Warspheres for that when available, before and after the pact with the Tau. They just continue this lifestyle, as it is necessary for the survival of the race. Calling it resistance is missing the point, nonchalance fits better, esp. taking the pragmatical mind set of Kroot into account. And this behavior is obviously common, enough to justify a Codex for this.

2.) The designer notes make it clear that Tau don't subjugate the Kroot, so there is no strict rulership over the Kroot. Even if Tau wanted to subjugate other races, they are simply not enough soldiers to enforce such strict rulership. The Tau Empire is a union of independent planets, linked by a military pact and mutual trading relationships. The Tau are the superior miltary force in that pact, and they often have superior technology and administrative skills, so they are leading this Empire as a whole, but are not interested in ruling every planet in the Empire. "The Greater Good" is not an empty dogma, but the belief that working together in peace is more efficient that fighting each other.

3.) What exactly Tau do when they encounter Kroot mercenaries is pure speculation. Official texts suggest that only few Tau are aware of this, fewer still about the biological necessity (but we know some ARE aware). We only know that the eating of the dead is also not approved but Tau turn a blind eye on that (Codex, "For the Emperor"), so it is probable that fighting for the enemy is prohibited by the pact but enforcement also turns a blind eye. There is absolutely no evidence of animosities between Kroot and Tau, not even between Kroot mercenaries and Tau, on the contrary. Actually being pragmatic, Kroot seem not to hate anyone, they even fight for Orks if the payment is right! So "stomping the guts out" is mere wishful thinking by Tau haters not supported in any way by official sources.

Kroothawk wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Actually the Kroot aren't allowed to work as mercenaries. Kroot mercenaries go to lengths to avoid contact with the Tau, lest the Tau find out about it and stomp their guts out for it. Page 17, Codex: Tau Empire, the entire fourth paragraph.

In fact, Kroot aren't allowed to do anything at all other than be bait. Page 12, under "Kauyon - Patient Hunter." Fourth sentence.
(...)
So yeah, if you're going to claim to "bother people with facts," why don't you... oh, I don't know... bother people with facts? Instead of making stuff up off the top of your head?

In fact, I can't help but ask... have you read the Tau codex? You seem to know very little about them, despite having a Kroot avatar and username "Kroothawk."

Well, I missed the parts of the Tau Codex that you invented, like the passage about Tau stomping the guts out of the Kroot and Kroot aren't allowed to do anything but serve as bait (actually this honourable role is often taken by blood pact Tau Warriors, as the bait is meant to always survive!).
Yeah, not finding the parts of the Codex that you obviously invented really deserves all the trolling, thanks
Bad luck for you that I always check the sources and actually read what is written there

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Terminus wrote:It's not the erroneous labeling of Tau that annoyed me (hell, it aggravates Tau players to no end, so I'm all for it. Ad hominem for life!), but rather the complete and utter lack of understanding about what communism really is. I mean, come on, it's "just too real and present"? How ignorant can you get?

How can you say that? What with the Soviet Union's invasion of Afganistan it's obvious the nations of Europe and Asia will fall to communism like dominos!!!

Oh, right. The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, therefore Tau are communists, riiight. Totally convincing

Ratbarf wrote:

Yeah how utterly evil! Take the Kroot: They are so subjugated that they can't even work as mercenaries ... wait!

The thing is they don't even realize they have been subjugated, thats how complete the conquest was.

And the Tau are so damned sneaky with their subjugation that even the designers of the race don't know they subjugate, riiight!

Sometimes, exposing the little tricks of Tau haters is no challenge at all.

I was being sarcastic. Obviously the cold war has been over for a decade. I'm the one that gets annoyed when people call the Tau communists.
Anyways, its ridiculus when people make statements like "Tau are the most evil of them all". They are obviously not very well versed in Imperial fluff. The Tau are not using the Kroot. If anything the Kroot are using the Tau. They are more widespread galactically than the Tau and they don't believe in the greater good. They just hang with the Tau because it gives them more opportunities to eat people.

KamikazeCanuck wrote: They just hang with the Tau because it gives them more opportunities to eat people.

Gotta love that political system. "Who can we ally so we get more noms? Fish people with lasers or green people with rough axes?"
The answer?
Both!
Just don't let the fish people know that you're getting noms from other people. They'd be so jealous.

"The Greater Good" is not an empty dogma, but the belief that working together in peace is more efficient that fighting each other.

In the Kroot squad blurb from the 3rd edition codex (the black one) it says that they provide a "useful contrast to their more technologically dependent masters" and also "the kroot are afforded virtually the same level as respect as a Tau" that does not imply equality, but subserviance to a superior power.

Also from the blurb about expansion "most of these willingly became members of the Tau empire" which again would imply that those races who did not wish to become members were forced into it.

And from the 4th Edition codex on contact with humanity, "Though the more passionate leaders of the Fire Caste called for a war of conquest, the Ethereal issued their instructions for the integration of the human imperium into the Tau empire." Again, they don't exactly sound like friendly do gooding neighbours. That they are always made out to be.

Also as to how the Ethereal caste rules the Tau, "From the Council of the Highest, orders and edicts are sent out across the region, orders that are followed without question, for the Ethereal caste leaders who order them are reveared by countless billions, and their wisdom is without doubt." More and more these people remind of a very Autocratic Agressive people who can only see the use of someone if they control them directly.

Kroothawk wrote:[
1.) Kroot always worked as mercenaries and used the Warspheres for that when available, before and after the pact with the Tau. They just continue this lifestyle, as it is necessary for the survival of the race. Calling it resistance is missing the point, nonchalance fits better, esp. taking the pragmatical mind set of Kroot into account. And this behavior is obviously common, enough to justify a Codex for this.

Yes.

2.) The designer notes make it clear that Tau don't subjugate the Kroot, so there is no strict rulership over the Kroot. Even if Tau wanted to subjugate other races, they are simply not enough soldiers to enforce such strict rulership. The Tau Empire is a union of independent planets, linked by a military pact and mutual trading relationships. The Tau are the superior miltary force in that pact, By far and they often have superior technology and administrative skills, so they are leading this Empire as a whole, but are not interested in ruling every planet in the Empire Hmmm. "The Greater Good" is not an empty dogma, but the belief that working together in peace is more efficient that fighting each other.

3.) What exactly Tau do when they encounter Kroot mercenaries is pure speculation. Official texts suggest that only few Tau are aware of this, fewer still about the biological necessity (but we know some ARE aware). We only know that the eating of the dead is also not approved but Tau turn a blind eye on that (Codex, "For the Emperor") Are these two sources?, so it is probable that fighting for the enemy is prohibited by the pact but enforcement also turns a blind eye. There is absolutely no evidence of animosities between Kroot and Tau, not even between Kroot mercenaries and Tau, on the contrary. Actually being pragmatic, Kroot seem not to hate anyone, they even fight for Orks if the payment is right! So "stomping the guts out" is mere wishful thinking by Tau haters not supported in any way by official sources.

First you claim that what happens between Tau who encounter Kroot mercenaries is pure speculation, then you claim that Tau just turn a blind eye to it. Don't contradict yourself. There is also the interesting point of who Kroot Mercenaries would be willing to fight against. If hired by the Imperium (for a reasonable price) would Kroot be willing to get into grips with Tau? There's no evidence to suggest anything either way, but there isn't any canon stating that Kroot Mercenaries can't fight against a Tau army.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Obviously the cold war has been over for a decade.

Two decades.

Kroothawk wrote:
3.) What exactly Tau do when they encounter Kroot mercenaries is pure speculation. Official texts suggest that only few Tau are aware of this, fewer still about the biological necessity (but we know some ARE aware). We only know that the eating of the dead is also not approved but Tau turn a blind eye on that (Codex, "For the Emperor"), so it is probable that fighting for the enemy is prohibited by the pact but enforcement also turns a blind eye. There is absolutely no evidence of animosities between Kroot and Tau, not even between Kroot mercenaries and Tau, on the contrary. Actually being pragmatic, Kroot seem not to hate anyone, they even fight for Orks if the payment is right! So "stomping the guts out" is mere wishful thinking by Tau haters not supported in any way by official sources.

And really, if you think about it, whole idea that Tau would be ignorant of Kroot mercenaries is pretty daft. I mean, I can just imagine some Water Caste envoy going to meet Kroot Master Shaper and ask some hard questions:

Envoy: "Hey, we have noticed that you are sending awful lot of Warspheres full of your warriors all across the Galaxy. What are you doing with them?"

<long pause>

Master Shaper: "Nothing".

Envoy: "Oh, all right then... Hey wait a minute...why did it take so long from you to come up with that answer??"

<long pause>

Master Shaper: "No reason."

Envoy: "Hmmm...OK, I guess everything's okay then..."

Emperors Faithful wrote:First you claim that what happens between Tau who encounter Kroot mercenaries is pure speculation, then you claim that Tau just turn a blind eye to it. Don't contradict yourself.

First I say that it is pure speculation, then I speculate based on what I think likely. Clear now?

Emperors Faithful wrote:There is also the interesting point of who Kroot Mercenaries would be willing to fight against. If hired by the Imperium (for a reasonable price) would Kroot be willing to get into grips with Tau? There's no evidence to suggest anything either way, but there isn't any canon stating that Kroot Mercenaries can't fight against a Tau army.

Kroot are mercenaries, but they have a home world within the Tau Empire protected by the Tau. Tau died to protect Kroot and Kroot appreciate that. Kroot wouldn't harm their homeworld by risking a war with Tau.

@Ratbarf:
1.) The same 3rd edition squad blurb says that they are honoured and rewarded as deserved by loyal citizens of the Tau Empire. You certainly must have forgotten that bit about citizenship Happens all the time in Tau threads! Besides, one Kroot was general in the Tau Empire army.

2.) So Ethereals avoided a civil war among Tau (old Mont'au times) and oppose a war against the Imperium. Yeah, totally reminds me of aggressive people. That's why these ultra-brutal monsters are called spiritual leaders, space pope and their "wisdom is without doubt". Pressing the Tau to subjugate everyone even without their designers being aware of it! Cruel bastards

@Backfire: Good summary of pages 10-12 of the first Tau Codex

Vene wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Obviously the cold war has been over for a decade.

Two decades.

right, sorry bout that.

Kroothawk wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:First you claim that what happens between Tau who encounter Kroot mercenaries is pure speculation, then you claim that Tau just turn a blind eye to it. Don't contradict yourself.

First I say that it is pure speculation, then I speculate based on what I think likely. Clear now?

You said "Evidence points to", not exactly speculation. But yeah, doesn't really matter.

Emperors Faithful wrote:There is also the interesting point of who Kroot Mercenaries would be willing to fight against. If hired by the Imperium (for a reasonable price) would Kroot be willing to get into grips with Tau? There's no evidence to suggest anything either way, but there isn't any canon stating that Kroot Mercenaries can't fight against a Tau army.

Kroot are mercenaries, but they have a home world within the Tau Empire protected by the Tau. Tau died to protect Kroot and Kroot appreciate that. Kroot wouldn't harm their homeworld by risking a war with Tau.

So...the Mercenaries are held at ransom by the Tau presence on their Home Planet? You're also assuming that a Mercernarie's goals will always ultimately coincide with that of their homeland, I'm sure there are a few Kroot that honestly wouldn't be bothered.

@Ratbarf:
1.) The same 3rd edition squad blurb says that they are honoured and rewarded as deserved by loyal citizens of the Tau Empire. You certainly must have forgotten that bit about citizenship Happens all the time in Tau threads! Besides, one Kroot was general in the Tau Empire army.

Really? I have honestly never heard of this.

2.) So Ethereals avoided a civil war among Tau (old Mont'au times) and oppose a war against the Imperium. Yeah, totally reminds me of aggressive people. That's why these ultra-brutal monsters are called spiritual leaders, space pope and their "wisdom is without doubt". Pressing the Tau to subjugate everyone even without their designers being aware of it! Cruel bastards

Well, they ended a Civil War. And they didn't actually oppose a War against the Imperium, they just didn't agree with the Fire Caste's brilliant idea of CLEANSE BURN KILL! Subversion works.

Emperors Faithful wrote:So...the Mercenaries are held at ransom by the Tau presence on their Home Planet? You're also assuming that a Mercernarie's goals will always ultimately coincide with that of their homeland, I'm sure there are a few Kroot that honestly wouldn't be bothered.

The mercenaries do their job only to secure the survival of their race on Pech, and they return to Pech regularly to enhance the gene pool. Pech lives in peace guaranteed by Tau. Not killing the people who just gave their lives to safe you and keep on protecting you is pragmatic. Wanting to kill our savior and start a war just because you can is more a human thing

Emperors Faithful wrote:

@Ratbarf:
1.) The same 3rd edition squad blurb says that they are honoured and rewarded as deserved by loyal citizens of the Tau Empire. You certainly must have forgotten that bit about citizenship Happens all the time in Tau threads! Besides, one Kroot was general in the Tau Empire army.

Really? I have honestly never heard of this.

Read the first Tau Codex, Kroot unit entry, flavour text, last sentence, just down from the passage Ratbarf referred to.
That all members of the Tau Empire are considered citizens is not surprising, as it repeats the fluff about not subjugating, of respect and mutual benefiting peaceful relationships that characterize the Tau Empire.

Kroothawk wrote:("Damn liberal Hindu anime commie nazis led by a pope, curse those peace loving fish-cow-men doing massacres and genocides all the time")

going in the sig

Just out of curiosity I wonder how many people on this post actually know what a communistic government is or if they think it's bad just because all they got from their history classes was "Communism is bad, we fought communists which means it's bad. Hate communism without knowing anything about it." I mean it's obvious some people don't but still it's surprising how many people are all like "Their space commies that look like fish". Really? I'd love to see how the Tau look like fish in any possible way.

As far as the Kroot go the Tau Empire probably does know about the mercenaries. But since there hasen't been anything stated that the Tau actively hunt down these bands and destroy them I think it can be safe to say that the Tau just choose to ignore it. Considering that not all of the races in the Tau Empire serve a combat role and of those that do it is likely that not every single member of that race fights in Tau armies. Which means that they will be off doing other things throughout the Empire and the Tau probably don't keep tabs on everyone all the time just to make sure they're doing what they want.

The Tau are ignorantly trustfull (necron incident), and while they may not appreciate the full abilities of their auxiliaries and instead focus on what the Tau like that dosen't mean those "unliked" traits are forcefully stopped. The Kroot habit of eating the dead (both their own and the enemies) is disliked and discouraged by the Tau but there is nothing in fluff saying that the Tau forcefully try to stop the Kroot from doing this.

i have no hate for the tau. second favorite army. i just thought that was funny. also, you guys sound like the nfl.com posters....


STEELERS WILL WIN!
NO STEELERS SUCK GIANTS WILL WIN!
NO GIANTS SUCK STEELERS WILL WIN!
etc...

The thing that gets me is that this topic comes up often and always turns into discussions on communism. Haters gonna hate, players gonna play.

Personally, I could care less what someone else thinks of the army I've chosen to play and if they're dumb enough to be so violently opposed to the existance of a fictional bunch of plastic army men....all I can do is pity them.

First to qualify, I don't hate the Tau, I actually used to play them, that's why I have several of the Codex's, I don't think they are communists, at least not along the true sense of the political movement as described by Karl Marx and that other fellow whose name I can never remember. Though I do similiarities in regime style to that of Stalinist Russia.

1.) The same 3rd edition squad blurb says that they are honoured and rewarded as deserved by loyal citizens of the Tau Empire. You certainly must have forgotten that bit about citizenship Happens all the time in Tau threads! Besides, one Kroot was general in the Tau Empire army.

While I did actually read that part I didn't feel like quoting it. What I quote and do not quote is my discretion, but as to the "honoured as loyal citizens" this could be taken in many different ways. For instance I am incredibly sure that the Kazahks who fought for the USSR were "afforded a level of respect virtually the same as a Russian" a government which will sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands of its own people to forward it's expansionists aims will gladly afford another race the honour of dieing for them. A similar parallel can also be drawn from the Chinese who starved during Mao's Cultural revolution, as they were honoured citizens loyal to the Chinese party, it doesn't mean at all that they respected their basic needs as living beings or even that they cared as long as it was assumed to be for the greater good.

The last thing to point out is that if you read the Tau codex as if it was written from a propagandist view by the Tau Empire it's a lot easier to envision the "Everyone loves the Greater Good, and the Space Pope is only out for betterment of all!" Big Brother kind of feel.

I don't hate the Tau. Once I am done with my Eldar army, I will be starting a Tau army (already started on Kroot and Pathfinders ) The Tau are just about perfect for my playstyle, and I hope they work out well for me.

What I find truly amusing is people actually fighting about the fine details of a hastily written, poorly edited, and rather inconsistent backstory meant to sell toy soldiers. The details of my Tau and my Kroot are very different from yours, I am sure. My Kroot Mercenary Vulture Kindreds don't even grow wings, they use jump packs gifted or bought from their employers. It's a game, and it is whatever I, or you, or the next guy choose to make it.

So please, let's agree to disagree on the details of the fluff, and go back to bashing on the rules. After all, the fight's the thing

Kroothawk wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:So...the Mercenaries are held at ransom by the Tau presence on their Home Planet? You're also assuming that a Mercernarie's goals will always ultimately coincide with that of their homeland, I'm sure there are a few Kroot that honestly wouldn't be bothered.

The mercenaries do their job only to secure the survival of their race on Pech, and they return to Pech regularly to enhance the gene pool. Pech lives in peace guaranteed by Tau. Not killing the people who just gave their lives to safe you and keep on protecting you is pragmatic. Wanting to kill our savior and start a war just because you can is more a human thing

Kroot Mercenaries are mercenaries. Their culture, the need for an extended gene pool, inherently drives them to that vocation but they are mercenaries nonetheless and aren't getting paid in enemy corpes. Their employer pays them through other ways; tech, weaponry, even coinage maybe. Everybody has a price, especially Mercenaries. It's not hard to imagine them trying to pull something off if they thought it would be worth it. And hey, who knows what wonders a good bit of Tau will do for the Gene Pool?

Also:

Pech lives in peace guaranteed by Tau

That all members of the Tau Empire are considered citizens is not surprising, as it repeats the fluff about not subjugating, of respect and mutual benefiting peaceful relationships that characterize the Tau Empire.

1) Kroothawk, are you honestly telling me that the Tau have never subjugated anyone?
2) Even so, subjugation doesn't necessarily mean you don't have to treat the conquered as Second Class citizens. There are pleny of instances in history that demonstrate the annexed populace being integrated as equal citizens, and plenty that don't.

Tau Empire is Best Empire!!!





Anyway, do we need a reason to hate the Tau? Can't just hate them because they're Tau?