Ok so me and my friend PURE SKINZzz came to a debate about who would win in a realistic one on one fight to the death, a Wraithlord or a Dreadnaught / Venarable Dreadnaught. as most of the worlds debates we could not agree. so we thought we would ask the people of dakka in order to get some more facts and opinions on this debate.

So please share your thoughts =)

As i said in the first place a dread, due to the fact that if a wraithlord took a swing at the dread all the dread would have to do ans grab the sword in its grapple (left arm) and because its mostly machine, it will be able to hold it there, bring it across its body, pulling the wraithlord with it and into the line of fire of its longer range weapon wihich in this case we will say is a multi-melta which the dread would then shoot into the wraithlords head. No more wraithlord

Well since the wraithlord has no controller shooting it in the head wont kill it for a start, also im pretty sure a bright lance cannon to your dread will be all it takes, and another thing, wraithbone is stronger then machine ( i think )

It might not have a controller but there are few things that work correctly after they have taken a multi-melta to the face/head/thingy. Also dread just look more stompy.

Yes but dreads are mechanical so therefore they have machine strength which could easily crush the wraithlords sword if it squesed hard enough

I guess so, but unless you can actually stop the wraithlord from being able to move or fight then it pretty much carries on, i mean its controlled by a soul after all.

A dread could shoot it in the leg/s and then proceed to punt it in the facish area, then again a wraithlord could possibly do that... although i couldn't imagine one doing so they seem more the type to fight honorably as it were.

Yeah thats true, however should a wraithlord run its blade through the centre of the dread, the fight is over

Yeah true they are honorable. But that senario could happen showing yet another way it could beat the wraithlord


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Well it would have to be a quick lucky strike for the dread to not block it

Unreal Toast wrote:Yeah thats true, however should a wraithlord run its blade through the centre of the dread, the fight is over

You could say the same for the dreadnought and anyway could it get the sword uninterupted through the middle into the sarcophagus? I don't think so

purplefood wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:Yeah thats true, however should a wraithlord run its blade through the centre of the dread, the fight is over

You could say the same for the dreadnought and anyway could it get the sword uninterupted through the middle into the sarcophagus? I don't think so

my point exactly and it wil be harder for the wraithlord to do much damage using its weight because the dread is heavier. So if the dread got a hold of the wraithlord in any way it would be screwed because the dread could use its weight and pull it to the floor and crush it.

This is why i made the poll, their pretty even to be honest anything you say about the dred can be pulled of by the wraith aswell and vise versa.

Wraithbone is stronger then metal, it wont be pulled aorund that easily.

Its not about strength its about wieght, coz the dread would be hard to pull around compared to the wraithlord :p

But the wraith is taller, so he could stab through the top into the controller, or a bright lance straight to the top in CC and if your dread had a multi melta the wraith could obliterate your dread before it got close enough to use the melta in the first place.

Yeah also in close combat i'd say the dread has a unique fighting style any direct blow at the sarcophagus can be deflected by swivling on it's axis.
Also the wraithlord only needs a few hits in the limbs to really decrease it's fighting ability, whilst the dreadnought is just armoured everywhere.

O true,k but this is 1v1 close combat were talking about here. cos either of them could shoot them from far away

purplefood wrote:Yeah also in close combat i'd say the dread has a unique fighting style any direct blow at the sarcophagus can be deflected by swivling on it's axis.
Also the wraithlord only needs a few hits in the limbs to really decrease it's fighting ability, whilst the dreadnought is just armoured everywhere.

Buy you still forget that wraithbone is tougher and stronger then metal, the limbs wont just snap of, maybe you can melt them away, but the wraith could simply push the melta away, or navagate away from it as the wraith is more flexable and more faster.

PURE SKINZzz wrote:O true,k but this is 1v1 close combat were talking about here. cos either of them could shoot them from far away

Yeah that's what i was talking about.

purplefood wrote:Yeah also in close combat i'd say the dread has a unique fighting style any direct blow at the sarcophagus can be deflected by swivling on it's axis.
Also the wraithlord only needs a few hits in the limbs to really decrease it's fighting ability, whilst the dreadnought is just armoured everywhere.

This is all very true because the dread is armoured where as the wraithlord has only got its natural armour

Unreal Toast wrote:

purplefood wrote:Yeah also in close combat i'd say the dread has a unique fighting style any direct blow at the sarcophagus can be deflected by swivling on it's axis.
Also the wraithlord only needs a few hits in the limbs to really decrease it's fighting ability, whilst the dreadnought is just armoured everywhere.

Buy you still forget that wraithbone is tougher and stronger then metal, the limbs wont just snap of, maybe you can melt them away, but the wraith could simply push the melta away, or navagate away from it as the wraith is more flexable and more faster.

Or the dread uses it's power claw to rip it's arm off and beat it to death... but it's already dead so just beat it to death again.

purplefood wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

purplefood wrote:Yeah also in close combat i'd say the dread has a unique fighting style any direct blow at the sarcophagus can be deflected by swivling on it's axis.
Also the wraithlord only needs a few hits in the limbs to really decrease it's fighting ability, whilst the dreadnought is just armoured everywhere.

Buy you still forget that wraithbone is tougher and stronger then metal, the limbs wont just snap of, maybe you can melt them away, but the wraith could simply push the melta away, or navagate away from it as the wraith is more flexable and more faster.

Or the dread uses it's power claw to rip it's arm off and beat it to death... but it's already dead so just beat it to death again.

HAHA i can imagen it now, a dread beating a wraithlord to... erm... 2nd death??? with its own arm haha

A wraithlord would smash a dread to pieces ....

Dread- "HAH 2 wounds
Wraithlord "ouch, destroyed explodes, sucks to be you".

Not trying to be mean, but most of the reasons a dread would win so far sound like something a 6 year old boy would write for his favorite saturday cartoon .....

I'd say the two are pretty evenly matched, fluff-wise. I can see easy justifications for why either one could defeat the other.

As a side note, this is also represented on the table, for once.

kill dem stunties wrote:A wraithlord would smash a dread to pieces ....

Dread- "HAH 2 wounds
Wraithlord "ouch, destroyed explodes, sucks to be you".

Not trying to be mean, but most of the reasons a dread would win so far sound like something a 6 year old boy would write for his favorite saturday cartoon .....

It's background not tabletop

kill dem stunties wrote:A wraithlord would smash a dread to pieces ....

Dread- "HAH 2 wounds
Wraithlord "ouch, destroyed explodes, sucks to be you".

Not trying to be mean, but most of the reasons a dread would win so far sound like something a 6 year old boy would write for his favorite saturday cartoon .....

Realistic in the 40k world...not the board game.

And also, the dred wont even got close enough anyway, it will be blasted in peices before it gets close enough or even in firing range with its melta.

What if it had a lascannon?

Then you cannot has melta and will suffer the CC

It has a gigantic fist for CC not the melta.

kill dem stunties wrote:A wraithlord would smash a dread to pieces ....

Dread- "HAH 2 wounds
Wraithlord "ouch, destroyed explodes, sucks to be you".

Not trying to be mean, but most of the reasons a dread would win so far sound like something a 6 year old boy would write for his favorite saturday cartoon .....

Fail... not tabletop, in the 40k world

Yes but the wraith has a sword with better range and better mobility.

But once again it could grab the sword and move it away from its sarcophagus

I still don't think the sword can get through the dreads armour

Wraithlord would react to slowly for the dread seeing as how there's no warlock in the fight keeping it focused. . . plus those spirit stones offer a nice sparkly target =)


(this may be the silliest thread ever )

I honestly cant see the dread being fast enough to counter the speed of the wraith, the wraith is agile while the dread is lumbering and heavy like you said

Lucid wrote:Wraithlord would react to slowly for the dread seeing as how there's no warlock in the fight keeping it focused. . . plus those spirit stones offer a nice sparkly target =)


(this may be the silliest thread ever )

Very true, without a warlock it is very sluggish and stupid

They might not be quick enough initially but it's armour will last it there while the wraithlord isn't quick enough to kill it before taking hits from the dread.

Oh yeah well what if the dread need an oil change lol

What if the wraithlord needs a... spirit change... or a nap... or he trips over those big lanky legs of his.

Wraithlord. Far more mobile and a wraithbone sword would be ownage.

While fluff is definitely different from tabletop rules, I think there is still a connection that can be used to extrapolate information one might be interested in.

10 quick close combats of Wraithlord with Wraithblade (100pts) vs. Dreadnought (105pts) ended with 8:2 in favour of the Wraithlord. Even with statistical error, that's rather clear.

I don't base my answer on this, I'd only like to use it as bonus evidence: I think, if "average" Wraithlords piloted by "average" Eldar souls fight against your "average" half-dead Marine in a Dreadnought...the Wraithlord will win. While a Dreadnought is heavily armoured and definitely strong, the same holds true for the Wraithlord. It doesn't look like it is tough, but it IS tough, because it's made of Wraithbone and because Eldar technology surpasses Imperial technology in many ways. While the ferocity and close-combat skills of both combatants might equal, I think the not-even-really-living hard-as-nails Wraithlord body can just take more punishment than even a millenia-old Space Marine Dreadnought. And by being able to take more punishment while dishing out equal destruction, this victory goes to the Eldar for me.

Statistically speaking.

purplefood wrote:What if the wraithlord needs a... spirit change... or a nap... or he trips over those big lanky legs of his.

This actually made me lol


But i dont think spirits can sleep....i mean they kinda already are 0.0

Witzkatz wrote:While fluff is definitely different from tabletop rules, I think there is still a connection that can be used to extrapolate information one might be interested in.

10 quick close combats of Wraithlord with Wraithblade (100pts) vs. Dreadnought (105pts) ended with 8:2 in favour of the Wraithlord. Even with statistical error, that's rather clear.

I don't base my answer on this, I'd only like to use it as bonus evidence: I think, if "average" Wraithlords piloted by "average" Eldar souls fight against your "average" half-dead Marine in a Dreadnought...the Wraithlord will win. While a Dreadnought is heavily armoured and definitely strong, the same holds true for the Wraithlord. It doesn't look like it is tough, but it IS tough, because it's made of Wraithbone and because Eldar technology surpasses Imperial technology in many ways. While the ferocity and close-combat skills of both combatants might equal, I think the not-even-really-living hard-as-nails Wraithlord body can just take more punishment than even a millenia-old Space Marine Dreadnought. And by being able to take more punishment while dishing out equal destruction, this victory goes to the Eldar for me.

Statistically speaking.

Luck can change everything.

Witzkatz wrote:While fluff is definitely different from tabletop rules, I think there is still a connection that can be used to extrapolate information one might be interested in.

10 quick close combats of Wraithlord with Wraithblade (100pts) vs. Dreadnought (105pts) ended with 8:2 in favour of the Wraithlord. Even with statistical error, that's rather clear.

I don't base my answer on this, I'd only like to use it as bonus evidence: I think, if "average" Wraithlords piloted by "average" Eldar souls fight against your "average" half-dead Marine in a Dreadnought...the Wraithlord will win. While a Dreadnought is heavily armoured and definitely strong, the same holds true for the Wraithlord. It doesn't look like it is tough, but it IS tough, because it's made of Wraithbone and because Eldar technology surpasses Imperial technology in many ways. While the ferocity and close-combat skills of both combatants might equal, I think the not-even-really-living hard-as-nails Wraithlord body can just take more punishment than even a millenia-old Space Marine Dreadnought. And by being able to take more punishment while dishing out equal destruction, this victory goes to the Eldar for me.

Statistically speaking.

Thats very true. The Eldar tech is better. and the marine is half dead and can barely see out of that slit in the front anyway.

Unreal Toast wrote:

purplefood wrote:What if the wraithlord needs a... spirit change... or a nap... or he trips over those big lanky legs of his.

This actually made me lol


But i dont think spirits can sleep....i mean they kinda already are 0.0

Well if they're already asleep then it''l be easy for the dreadnought.

No it just means it hasnt gotta be awake to kill a dreadnaught

Unreal Toast wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:While fluff is definitely different from tabletop rules, I think there is still a connection that can be used to extrapolate information one might be interested in.

10 quick close combats of Wraithlord with Wraithblade (100pts) vs. Dreadnought (105pts) ended with 8:2 in favour of the Wraithlord. Even with statistical error, that's rather clear.

I don't base my answer on this, I'd only like to use it as bonus evidence: I think, if "average" Wraithlords piloted by "average" Eldar souls fight against your "average" half-dead Marine in a Dreadnought...the Wraithlord will win. While a Dreadnought is heavily armoured and definitely strong, the same holds true for the Wraithlord. It doesn't look like it is tough, but it IS tough, because it's made of Wraithbone and because Eldar technology surpasses Imperial technology in many ways. While the ferocity and close-combat skills of both combatants might equal, I think the not-even-really-living hard-as-nails Wraithlord body can just take more punishment than even a millenia-old Space Marine Dreadnought. And by being able to take more punishment while dishing out equal destruction, this victory goes to the Eldar for me.

Statistically speaking.

Thats very true. The Eldar tech is better. and the marine is half dead and can barely see out of that slit in the front anyway.

Ok there isn't litterally a half-dead marine there he's linked up to a life support system and has opticl scanner thingies and robot ears etc etc sci-fi stuff.

Luck can change everything.

That's the reason I said "statistically speaking".

Of course, there will be battles where a Dreadnought might win. A Marine who fought against Eldar all his life before being imprisoned in a Dreadnought shell might very well have better chances against a Wraithlord piloted by a rather newly-resurrected soul, who is not yet used to this way of combat. There are many ways, fluff- and narrative-wise why each of both combatants could win - I'm just saying that your 08/15 Dread will, on average, lose against your 08/15 Wraithlord.

Witzkatz wrote:

Luck can change everything.

That's the reason I said "statistically speaking".

Of course, there will be battles where a Dreadnought might win. A Marine who fought against Eldar all his life before being imprisoned in a Dreadnought shell might very well have better chances against a Wraithlord piloted by a rather newly-resurrected soul, who is not yet used to this way of combat. There are many ways, fluff- and narrative-wise why each of both combatants could win - I'm just saying that your 08/15 Dread will, on average, lose against your 08/15 Wraithlord.

Fair point. To be honest they are both so equally matched most people would give equal odds on both of them. I have stated my opinions and i'm gonna leave someone else to discuss it now.

At the end of the day a dread would kick the hell out of the wraithlord for one reason only... eldar are ballerinas

Unreal Toast wrote:

kill dem stunties wrote:A wraithlord would smash a dread to pieces ....

Dread- "HAH 2 wounds
Wraithlord "ouch, destroyed explodes, sucks to be you".

Not trying to be mean, but most of the reasons a dread would win so far sound like something a 6 year old boy would write for his favorite saturday cartoon .....

Realistic in the 40k world...not the board game.

And also, the dred wont even got close enough anyway, it will be blasted in peices before it gets close enough or even in firing range with its melta.

You missed my point.

The game is an abstraction of the fluff.

You shoot a dread with a meltagun theres a very good chance he will explode. Machinery is very vulnerable to stuff like this.

You shoot a wraithlord with the same meltagun, he will feel it, but hes not anywhere near dead, and hes still coming to smash your face. A wraithlord is not a machine, he does not have things inside him fulfilling fuctions necessary to his operation, excepting a very small spirit stone. The entire thing is basically just insanely tough psychic plastic, notyhing inside it but a soul, you need to completely destroy a wraithlord, or somhow get its spirit stone broken, which is harder than disabling him in other ways, as its in the most protected, heavily armored spot of the lord.

It really depends on weapon loadouts and whether it is a straight up melee fight or involves ranged combat as well.

At any rate if the Wraithlord has a Brightlance, and we are including ranged; then the Wraithlord may win based on outranging the Dread(unless the Dread has T-L Lascannon and starts at his long range).

If the Wraithlord and the Dread somehow both end up in Melee, unscathed and without ever getting a shot off at eachother; Then it comes down to a tie. Gamewise they swing at the same time; so fluff-wise they are equally fast and agile(yes I just called a washing machine on stumpy legs "agile").

Both are effectively Robots; But only the wraithlord can wreck the Dread on the first swing that lands. The wraithlord with a wraithsword also has a better chance of landing a Blow first so i went ahead and voted Wraithlord.

1. wraithlords are controlled by spirits of great champions.
2. wraithbone is very very very strong.
3. wraithlords are probably be much more nimble, because of the lesser weight and the fact there is very little bulk.
4. a bright lance would penetrate and effectively evapourate the dreads controller.

In my book the wraithlord would always win.

PURE SKINZzz wrote:At the end of the day a dread would kick the hell out of the wraithlord for one reason only... eldar are ballerinas

Ok Sloth that's MY WORD for eldar not yours....
Wraithlord vs Dreadnought? Hmm...Well with my experience of all DOW games and a couple of years on and off the Tabletop I would have to say Dread. This is only really due to the the fact the Marine can still think and process thought better than a Lord because the Lord is being controlled with a spirit stone and warlock.
Tabletop wise Wraithlords have the advantage but that's it.

All im going to say is Furioso Dread from the BA chapter would SMASH everyone's walkers.
Furioso > Ven > Lord=/=Dread
Good Day, The Tsar
(SKINZz and Toast knows who this is)

People are mis interpreting the whole relationship between the warlock and the wraithlord, all the warlock does is keep him focused , to "guide the soul" in combat when responding to orders, objectives and maybe even targeting a particular unit, however there are fail safes for the wraithlord in case a warlock isnt present, such as the sentience that lies withing the wraithblade that controlls itself and helps the wraithlord guide the blade into its victims, the wraithlord can also communicate telepathicaly which means it could request assistence from a warlock at any time in which he could then be his maximum effeciency. and there are other points to consider such as:

The wraithlords armour and tech far exceeds the dreadnaught.

The soul that controlls the wraithlord is a hero of the eldar and is therefore very experianced as most wraithlords also date back milenia like the ven dreads.

The brightlance cannon would kill a dread in one shot.

and the wraithblade is powerfull enough to peirce straight into a dreadnaught sarcougagus.

Im probably missing something, but the dreadnaught is just a machine with pipes and wires that are just waiting to be ripped of (which would also disable the dreadnaught)

Machines are ment to be broken

Actually, if your just going from the fluff, then the Dreadnought would win the majority of the time. In the fluff dreadnoughts are only awoken in the direst of times, mostly when the entire chapter is threatened. In the fluff they are pretty much unstopable killing machines which outmatch everything they are put up against, however in the game, they are balanced to meet a point cost.

I think the Dreadnought would win, and if he thought he was about to be destroyed he would detinate his reactor takeing the wraithlord and a good chunk of the city out with him.

Catyrpelius wrote: In the fluff dreadnoughts are only awoken in the direst of times, mostly when the entire chapter is threatened. In the fluff they are pretty much unstopable killing machines which outmatch everything they are put up against, however in the game, they are balanced to meet a point cost.

I think the Dreadnought would win, and if he thought he was about to be destroyed he would detinate his reactor takeing the wraithlord and a good chunk of the city out with him.

Another of my points that i forgot to mention, the self destruct method. This clearly Shows that they would win
thanks for the input man, you reminded me of another thing the dread can do haha

Catyrpelius wrote:Actually, if your just going from the fluff, then the Dreadnought would win the majority of the time. In the fluff dreadnoughts are only awoken in the direst of times, mostly when the entire chapter is threatened. In the fluff they are pretty much unstopable killing machines which outmatch everything they are put up against, however in the game, they are balanced to meet a point cost.

I think the Dreadnought would win, and if he thought he was about to be destroyed he would detinate his reactor takeing the wraithlord and a good chunk of the city out with him.

Its also in the fluff that a single wraithlord can change the tide of battle, and are one of the eldar's most prized units as they take an extreamely powerfull farseer or warlock to wake.

I think its well known that dreadnaughts arent a easy kill however if it detonates its core, that means it must be loosing and if it detonates againt a wraithlord then the wraithlord must be winning to begin with.

Oh and also its un heard of in the fluff that a dreadnaught has ever gone head to head with a wraithlord (as for as i know) so to assume thats its unstoppable to a wraithlord isnt a very fair and accurate assumption, you would need some facts, which is what the people of both sides have beeen doing since the thread was made.

kill dem stunties wrote:A wraithlord would smash a dread to pieces ....

Dread- "HAH 2 wounds
Wraithlord "ouch, destroyed explodes, sucks to be you".

Not trying to be mean, but most of the reasons a dread would win so far sound like something a 6 year old boy would write for his favorite saturday cartoon .....

Yeah exactly what I was thinking.
I play Eldar (as well as CSMs) and I honestly think that it's fairly even in cc as well as at range.


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Still, I'd prefer my Wraithlord's chances of survival over a Dreadnought.


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PURE SKINZzz wrote:At the end of the day a dread would kick the hell out of the wraithlord for one reason only... eldar are ballerinas

XD Whereas Space Marines worship a guy who died on his toilet after getting beaten up by his rebellious son.

The poll says it all xeno lover

Not really, the poll is just merely a reference, especialy when its known their are allot more of SM fans then Xeno fans :/

In the written conversation me thinks the wraithlord has definately got better reasons and backed up facts why it would win.

TsarNikolai wrote:
All im going to say is Furioso Dread from the BA chapter would SMASH everyone's walkers.
Bjorn the Fell handed>BA Furisio>Venerable dreadnought>Dreadnought
Good Day, The Tsar
(SKINZz and Toast knows who this is)

Fixed that for you.

purplefood wrote:

TsarNikolai wrote:
All im going to say is Furioso Dread from the BA chapter would SMASH everyone's walkers.
Bjorn the Fell handed>BA Furisio>Venerable dreadnought>Dreadnought
Good Day, The Tsar
(SKINZz and Toast knows who this is)

Fixed that for you.

I will have to agree there but at least my old Furioso doesn't sleep for millenia at a time

I remember seeing an old metal eldar wraithlord, resculpted to be crouching ontop of the space marine dreadnought, like a cat, and reaching down with one hand to tear open the front panel of the enormous washing machine on legs, whilst the sm dread flailed it's arms around uselessly. That summed it up for me.

I think a wraithlord would kick the ass of a dred in cc. Fluid movement and reactions, able to do things like leap and kick, superior millions of years old tech from a race who ruled the galaxy like gods... yeah, my money's on the WL.

Perhaps if the dred got a good hold on the WL, might be different, but I doubt it'd get the chance.

Idont understand why everyone assumes that the dread is strong enough to snap the wraithlord's limbs easily. They have extremely strong wraithbone limbs which are thousands of years more advanced than the dreads.

Addicted to Bleach wrote:Idont understand why everyone assumes that the dread is strong enough to snap the wraithlord's limbs easily. They have extremely strong wraithbone limbs which are thousands of years more advanced than the dreads.

Going off the idea that the gameplay is somewhat extrapolated from the fluff it would be because a Dread would rip open a hole in a Monolith without straining himself too much, that and the point that he can open most all tanks like tuna cans.

Luco wrote:

Addicted to Bleach wrote:Idont understand why everyone assumes that the dread is strong enough to snap the wraithlord's limbs easily. They have extremely strong wraithbone limbs which are thousands of years more advanced than the dreads.

Going off the idea that the gameplay is somewhat extrapolated from the fluff it would be because a Dread would rip open a hole in a Monolith without straining himself too much, that and the point that he can open most all tanks like tuna cans.

Monolith - made of metal

Wraithlord - made of wraithbone

Your comment is kinda irrelevant to what he said, it would be next to impossible for the dread to snap wraithbone, his best bet would be to melt it but even then in the time it would take to melt it the wraithlord could have killed the dread :/

Sorry Toasty got point out that monolith are made out of very strong REGENERATING metal. The same metal that all necrons, apart from Pariahs, are made out of. I've seen (ala DOW) and read in the cron codex that Warriors are ridiculously durable. I doubt either Lord or Nought could get to a monolith without sustaining huge amounts of damage
Thus the Monolith example may not be the best one to use
Rather ask the question Adamantium+Ceramite vs Wraithbone

Even so, wraithbone is still much much stronger then the physical strength of a dreadnaught.

I hate crons.....i really do.

Tabletop, I would guess Wraithlord because it just needs one good hit, but really it is up in the air depending on their armament.

Imaginatively, I would go with the wraithlord because they are agile and fluid, where the dread is pretty clunky and unmaneuverable. Both have firepower, both are tough, neither one feels pain or fear, but as far as quickness goes, it would be like matching up Bruce Lee to King Kong Bundy.

In that movie 'Avatar', one of the little blue man group guys was able to defeat a dreadnought, and I'm pretty sure that was based on actually events. So if the blue man group man can do it, then it'd be a breeze for a wraithlord.

Lt. Coldfire This argument is abstract enough with out you trying to use exampkles from other movies.

Damage in getting there isnt apart of the question, purely strength vs material, in which the dreadnought ccw, which is also a power weapon, can put a hole in a monolith, again in the theory that the gameplay is an extrapolation of the fluff. If the dreadnought could hit the wl then it should be enough to at least put it off balance enough that it would get a follow up strike.

Going on a different example, the Dreadnought could also tear apart a Land Raider.

Deff Dred.

Nothing as panzee as a Wraithlord could ever stand up to the sheer stompy rage of a Deff Dred!

Not to get off topic, But i think a talos would take them both..... In fluff and on the table. Yeah its a metal torture chamber made too walk and cause damage, while taking taking punishment too...

I mean after i read some fluff about a talos and how they rip about carnifexes, dreads, and wraithlords, I would have tom put my money on it, then a wraithlord, then a fex, dread, deff dread, with killer kans coming in last
IMO.

Toast, wraithbone is not imoossible to break so you cant use that as a reason for it to win because the armour plated metal the dread uses is very tough and thick. also they are basically chapter savers because, as mentioned before, they are only awoken when a chapter is in danger. Meaning they are basically the un-beatable machine.

Yeah but what im saying is its impossible for a dreadnaught to break wraithbone because it just wouldnt have the strength. and wraithlords take extremely powerfull eldar, and the souls themselves are war heroes.

And also the dread armour might be think but its still just machine metal, the wraithblade would still penetrate it fairly nicely. and as previously stated the wraithlord is far more agile, the dreadnaught speed just wouldnt be able to keep up.

Its a machine, of course it has the strength. Its super human strength. But i knw where your coming from with the wraithbone strength. But a dread can drag it around if it grabs its arm

Ok so according to both sides, the warmachines after fighting hundereds of thousands of foes across the hundreds of years they had been alive(or dead in some cases), would just sit there punching each other because neither can get thrugh the armour of the other.

purplefood wrote:Ok so according to both sides, the warmachines after fighting hundereds of thousands of foes across the hundreds of years they had been alive(or dead in some cases), would just sit there punching each other because neither can get thrugh the armour of the other.

That won't work, as there can be only one!

If Wraithlord and Dreadnought Clashed in a novel/Codex/Any other publication they may use, the one that would win would probably be the one belonging to the Faction that the story is about ( if it was an Eldar story, Wraithlord would prolly win and Vice-versa).

A Similar thing was brought up on Advanced Tau Tactica a while ago, except is was a Banshee vs a Space Marine.

Wraithlord V Dreadnought is kinda the same thing. You got one that is very fast and agile and could hit with alot of attacks vs one that can take alot of punishment and can dish out just as much as it's taking but attacks slow in compared to the opponent.

Now here's the difference: Fluff wise, a Banshee would damn near Explode if the Space Marine hit once but the banshee could in theory dodge all the attacks and have the Marine die to a ton of really light wounds. I don't think the Wraithlord would have that same problem vs the Dreadnought. We've never seen a Wraithlord VS a Dreadnought so we can't really go either way with it. Until we get a novel were a Dread and a Wraithlord meet in combat, the only thing we have to go by is the TT. IF a book is ever written, it'd prolly be with the Space marines as the Protagonist, so the Dread will win ( Or the Eldar one would be written by Goto and the Wraithlord would never see combat, it'd be some sort of Slanneshi Tanksurfing Farseer with an Eldar version of a Multilaser that killed the Dreadnought)

God that would be a good good one can only hope for this book to be written haha.

I would read that book too.

yea the dread would kill it bad.

massive strength AND thick armor = WIN

besides Wraithlords don't even have eyes, so the dread would win a shooting contest as well.

This is a silly thread but I have to point out that all eldar vehicles are made of wraithbone. So sports fans what is the armor of falcons, wave serpents and so on? Twelve. and the armor of dreadnoughts? Twelve. so enough talk about wraithbone being tougher its not.

Also consider the rolls required to wound a T8 model vs a AV12 vehicle:
S7- 5+ to wound/5 to glance
S8- 4+ to wound/4 to glance
S9- 3+ to wound/3 to glance
and so on.
It's true that you can't kill a wraithlord with one hit but you need to roll one higher than above to get a chance of killing a dread in one hit so it ends up being pretty even.

a wraithlord against a dreadnaught? well. They both have their qualities, but I think the thick armor and ungodly strength on a dread will pummel the wraithlord into submission. better yet. a crazed Chaos dreadnought is even more powerful in CC, also able to fire off its guns in higher bursts at deadly accuracy. Its crazed and random movements will put the wraithlord under serious pressure, its bound to make a mistake and take one of those talons to the face/gut and be crushed out-right.


Then again.. a defiler just walks up to either of them and tears them apart like a wish-bone

ah... but the wraithlord gets a re-roll to hit in cc.

But what about at range? Many players use a brightlance + wraithblade combo because most Eldar with access to a Brightlance have BS3 while we realise it makes more sense to put it on the guy who can shoot more accurately.

An equivalently equipped dread would probably have a twim-linked lascannon and dread ccw. A wraithlord can take a couple of lascannon hits and still function the same, while every brightlance hit will likely penetrate, and while it may not destroy it, every hit cripples it in some way on the damage table, losing a weapon, getting immobilised, losing its next shot, etc. An imobilized dreadnought is just asking for a backshot, a stunned or shaken dread is useless, and a weapon destroyedmakes it likewise useless because if it loses its lascans the wraith will just stay at range, if it loses its ccw the wraith will close. Meanwhile, the dread can at best just put a wound on the wraith who will continue to function just fine until it is dead.

wraith I'd bet. Better manouverability.

Fluff wise. A Dreadnought is a machine controlled by a dead space marine. A wraithlord is a thousand year old warrior with wraithbone skin who not only towers over a dread but is far more agile. Whereas a dreadnought is a gun turret/power fist on clunky metal legs.

Fulgrim even had trouble defeating a wraithlord.

My monstrous creature can beat up your monstrous creature.

Wraithlords can do one thing that dreads can't.

Clap.


Their arms are longer, so they have reach, and unlike dreads, CAN'T be stunned or one-shotted (except by a couple of uncommon weapons).

Dread, being dropped out of storm raven, landing on top of wraithlord. Splat!

I'm going to say the wraithlord mainly because it has much more mobility imo. I mean the dread can pivot at the waist but aside from that the range & axis of mobility for the grapple arm are fairly bad compared to a wraithlord.

Wraithlord, simply because durability and agility beat durability alone

This question is like comparing a Scalpel and a Hammer. Both can kill, but a wielding a Scalpel takes Skill and ability, a hammer takes strength and brutality. Bottomline flip a coin, better yet roll a dice!

mwinciboo, I believe you've come the closest to answering this question, they both have distinct advantages and disadvantages, I for one would say the dread would win, they're not as slow as you'd believe I can remember reading a black library novel where I believe it was a Dark angels dread RAN and attacked another dread, please correct me gently if i'm wrong, and yes a dread is metal and a wraithlord is bone and they're both pretty tough, you wouldn't make a walking tank out of paper would you? but the mechanical strength of the dread would be amazing! and having a low centre of gravity would help it as well, nothing says get a laod of this than taking off a wraithlords leg then watching it fall as you casually punch a neat hole through the spirit stone with an assault cannon! sure the dread is heavy but by gosh i am sure it would have the power to back it's bulk up and if it really connected it would seriously rock the tall skinny thing back at least a foot or two!


althogh this may sound strange, but whenever I think of a wrathlord vs a dreadnought I can't help but think of who would win a fight out of Burt or Ernie from sesame st?
same arguments...nearly

I'm still sure that if a primarch (Fulgrim in 'Fulgrim' HH novel) struggles to beat a wraithlord a dreadnought would have no chance.

Wraithlord gets knocked over, it gets back up. Dread gets knocked over, it flails its arms around like a beetle on it's back helplessly. It's not even a fair comparison.

True, true whatwhat, but first you need to knock it over, and there I believe lies the hard part ;-)

I don't know, you say it has a low centre of gravity. Looking at it, I disagree. All it's weight is up top.

Hmmm you may be correct but I would argue (feebly mind you) that the dread would be made with enough hydrolics rams and whatnot to counter any overbalancing issues, good solid feet well spaced 'toes' evenly weighted centre with evenly weighted arms, i'd even gues they'd have superbly oiled balls!....ball bearings i mean?

Khirean Goldhelm

He was one hell of a wraithlord and i agree with 'whatwhat', the wraithlord nearly beat fulgrim and managed to deliver a harsh blow to fulgrims chest. a dreadnaught would not survive a wraithlord.

Also the dreadnaughts gravity would not help it as it is heavy at the top and lighter at the bottom, which essentially forms a pivot which makes nothing more then a wraithlords kick end the fight.

Well if a wraithlord can beat a dread, that will make up for the fact that a bloodclaw can cleave his way through basically an entire eldar force...if he can catch them while they run away that is :-)


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You see, it all evens out in the end!

It all depends on the dread really. there are many kinds of dreads out there, some are built for fire superiority (double gun dreads) while others are built to be a walking wall (ironclad dreads)
and then theres the CC dreads. one in particular.. a BA death company dread with a blood claw and magna grapple. Yank the wraithlord into cc with the grapple and then rip it apart with an onslaught of claw attacks.

Being a Death Company Dreadnought, it is far quicker and perhaps even out-maneuver a wraithlord. Yes its pretty pissed off all the time, but if that wraithlord ever meets the death-dreads eyesight, consider it dead.

I argue again.
Not all dreads are clunky and stupid. these things are manned by used to be spacemarines, they know all their moves and tactics, they know their whole body like it was their own (literally) and most of the time dreads are 10 000 years old. and with it, they know the best ways to kill things even if its an already dead soul machine-thing.

Chaos dreadnoughts are like their loyalist counterparts, but they have been driven so completely mad that not even the most experienced wraithlord can guess the movements of such a beast.
What looks like a maddened beast flailing its arms randomly is actually a wrought out tactical maneuver to onslaught an enemy until an opening is given, in which it will increase its assault and begin attacking with even more deadly blows.

Though being incredibly unstable the machine might as well pull out its multimelta and begin firing like a mad man, unleashing so many shots that not even the wraithlord would survive it. sure the arms of the dread would have melted off from all the shooting.. but that can be repaired.

Dreads are monsters, sadly given an armor value when it comes to stats. but if they were to have a statline i would say.. same weaponskill, ballistic kill, 6 strength (10 with arms), 8 toughness(9 if ironclad), 5 wounds, initiative 4, 4 base attacks (+1 or -1 depending on arm layout), 2+ armor save, 4+ invulnerable
then see how they fight.

bucketwalrus wrote:.........most of the time dreads are Tens of thousands of years old

i call bs on this
great crusade was only 10 000 years ago
so unless these metal kans are older than primarchs....

Devastator calls 'barbed strangler?' :-)

Sorry i meant to say 10 000 years old. Which some are.

only one is that spess wolf one that sleeps about 90% of time

the space wolf one is the only fluff one present, but im pretty sure there is others out there with similar age. Chaos marines are immune to aging due to the warp. Many of them have lived since the heresy (10 000 years), including their dreadnoughts, be it they are a few apples short of a basket-full.

nerdfest09 wrote: and yes a dread is metal and a wraithlord is bone and they're both pretty tough, you wouldn't make a walking tank out of paper would you?

Nerdfest09 Didn't GW do that with the ORK Dread in 40k 2nd edition?

Also to everyone quoting fluff as evidence, remember that Space Marines in the HH series are like gods and never seem to die. On the table top mine go down like ducks at a Carnival Shooting stand, so I think artistic license is used. I mean the books would be really crap if the main protagonist got hit by a stray Frag Missile that killed him (failling his HH +2 invulnerable Black Library Save), and yet no matter how Heroic my character my Scatter dice know no distinction!

Ah yes Bjorn the fell handed, he'd do alright I reckon, and i'm pretty sure the Dark angels have a similar ven dread in there somewhere? obviously we actually need to make a dreadnought and a wraithlord to battle it out, i'm only young so I can wait a few years while we work it out, but in the meantime we can just argue until the cows come home :-)


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Ah how could I forget the famous paper dred from 2nd ed? I believe extra armour was paper mache though! and the emperor's spears worked well against them with water cannons!

bucketwalrus wrote:the space wolf one is the only fluff one present, but im pretty sure there is others out there with similar age.

so why havent we heard of these guys?
are they eating cake at backstake or something

Well Bjorn's been mighty busy just chillin' at fenris, and for the life of me the DA one slips my mind, although Bjorn did manage some damn good work against the thousand sons.... damn good work, they won't be trying to sell Avon on fenris any time soon.


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Not eating cake but probably drinking mead and ale!

I think we should MATH HAMMER this bad boy and find out which would win!

mwnciboo wrote:I think we should MATH HAMMER this bad boy and find out which would win!

this is in background board.......

I still dont see how wraithbone can possibly be snapped by the grip of a dreadnaught....because it cant, it would be like arnold swartsnegger trying to bend a titanium poll. hes massive and powerfull but just not strong enough to bend or break that poll.

And the dreadnaught is in no way a match in speed or mobility. the thing is stumpy and heavy, it might be quick but it will never be as quick as WL.

A wraithlord would crush a Dread in a one on one. The wraithbone construct could take an immense amount of damage before it went down, the Wraithsword is sentient so parrying it with a DCCW is much easier said then done, and if the wraithlord is equiped with a brightlance it's firing that into the drad at the same time it is fight in close combat as the gun is a shoulder mount.

From what your saying though unreal it appears your view of the WL is that it is indestructable! it's not by any means and niether is the dreadnought, I believe your comment about Arnold is slightly wrong, if you perhaps liken the battle to Arnold versus jet li? that may be closer, Arnie is strong as but jet is damn quick and they're both awesome at what they do, and individually they both seem the alpha fighter, but if jet got in quick enough Arnie would go down and if Arnie managed to get a shot in full force it'd break Jets ribs like twigs! this is how i see the WL Dread confrontation, i really don't believe the wraithbone construct would be as unbreakable as you;d like it to be, a good hit and it'd break like everything else.


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I still think of bert and Ernie fighting though!

Im not saying its indestructable im saying the dread isnt strong enough to break it, now if it were something stronger like a chaos defiler then the wraithbone would snap "like a twig" but a dread simply does not have the mobility or the strength, even if it got a grip on the arm or the leg. the WL isnt gonna stand there and take it, hes gonne bring the sword through the front or a brightlance to the its face, and since the dread has only one hand to grip, hes left exposed apart form the autocannon/ melta / las cannon which can be side stepped since their fixed position weapons apart form the up and down axes.

Nope the dread would have the strength easy! if you actually think about the size of the dreadnough in reality! the immense power the hydrolics could produce! look at a car crusher it crushes cars easy like butter, a dread would be bigger more advanced technically and built for combat so bye bye WL


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:-) and hello ongoing argument!

This is a close one. In game terms the Wraithlord would win for definite. In fluff terms it is so close. I have to say Wraithlord again though, even without a Wraithsword it can punch and kick its way through a Dreadnoughts armour and is much more strong and flexible thana Dreadnought. However, like I said, it is a very close one.

Up and down axis only because the models appear that way, i'm sure if they were created that the movement would be more fluid and they would be able to track with the other weapon arm.

nerdfest09 wrote:Nope the dread would have the strength easy! if you actually think about the size of the dreadnough in reality! the immense power the hydrolics could produce! look at a car crusher it crushes cars easy like butter, a dread would be bigger more advanced technically and built for combat so bye bye WL


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:-) and hello ongoing argument!

You just voided your own arguement because the WL is bigger and more advanced in tech then the dread......so i think youl find that dread at most would critically damage the wraithlord, but only in a dream does it have the means to kill one.

Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease

Wraithsword plunges through Dreadnought Sarcophagus just as the Dread's DCCW Shatters the Wraithlord's Spiritstone, killing them both instantly and simultaneously.

/thread

The WL is 'taller' not bigger cut those basketball player legs down a bit and lets play!
and critically damage...sounds good to me, people die from critical injuries, therefore you just said that a dreadnought could critically injure therefore kill a WL!


BOOOYA!

If Wraithbone is that strong surely Eldar Vehicles would have better Armour? Don't the eldar grow everything out of Wraithbone? It's strong, but an Ironclad Dread with Siege Drill would smash it like a freight train hitting a glass wall at 60mph. WL Shrapnel would be raining down on everyone.

Unreal Toast wrote:Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease

Your right to come back to this, as everyone seems to be ignoring it.

Does everyone who thinks the dread would top a wraithlord think a dread could trouble a primarch?

Unreal Toast wrote:

nerdfest09 wrote:Nope the dread would have the strength easy! if you actually think about the size of the dreadnought in reality! the immense power the hydrolics could produce! look at a car crusher it crushes cars easy like butter, a dread would be bigger more advanced technically and built for combat so bye bye WL


Automatically Appended Next Post:
:-) and hello ongoing argument!

You just voided your own arguement because the WL is bigger and more advanced in tech then the dread......so i think youl find that dread at most would critically damage the wraithlord, but only in a dream does it have the means to kill one.

The WL is not bigger, only taller. try taking an old metal WL in one hand and an old metal dread in another and see which is heavier. when doing so keep in mind that dread is partially hollow. Also when it comes to warmachines eldar tech could not be said to be more advanced; simply different.

Unreal Toast wrote:Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease

Based on what? Did you read a story about fulgrim beating up a dreadnought?
Be careful you're starting to sound like an eldar fanboi..

No, as if a Dread could take on a Primarch. Its just another case of silly fluff not holding with the reality of a table top war game and then people saying "Well it must be able to, because it says so in my Book".
Its like the Jewish Claim to Palestine "Well this land must be ours because it says so in this really old dusty book called the Bible/Torah/whatever".

So do we go by the fluff or the game? Since the wraithlord is more powerfull in the game also.

What exactly can you base your argument on if the attitude of: "Well it must be able to, because it says so in my Book" is being silly.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease

Based on what? Did you read a story about fulgrim beating up a dreadnought?
Be careful you're starting to sound like an eldar fanboi..

lexicanum wrote:With Fulgrim throwing an enraged attack on Eldrad with his sword, as the primarch was insulted by the implications of Eldrad concerning his brother Horus, Khiraen sprung into action parrying the blow for Eldrad and dueling Fulgrim himself. The battle was fierce and Khiraen managed to personally kill the entire contingent of the vaunted Phoenix Guard, as well as deliver a fierce blow on the primarch's chest with his power fist. However, the primarch was helped by the demonic properties of his Laeran blade and managed to cripple the wraithlord. Afterwards, still controlled by his blade, Fulgrim broke the golden sarcophagus that contained Khiraen's soulstone and delivered the soul of the ancient warrior to be devoured by the Great Enemy of the Eldar race, Slaanesh.

ah hem...

Artistic license in the Books makes a mockery of the table top game. For example how can a Primarch like Fulgrim struggle to kill a WraithLord. An Avatar of Khaine I could understand but a WraithLord.

By extrapilation of your argument that a WL nearly killed a Primarch, therefore if a Dread could kill a WL then by rights a Dread could kill a Primarch.

This idea is nonsense and comes around because of poorly written fluff, and because people base alot of crazy ideas on fluff which has poor continuity over the decades.

mwnciboo wrote:No, as if a Dread could take on a Primarch. Its just another case of silly fluff not holding with the reality of a table top war game and then people saying "Well it must be able to, because it says so in my Book".
Its like the Jewish Claim to Palestine "Well this land must be ours because it says so in this really old dusty book called the Bible/Torah/whatever".

Kind of a random reference for this thread isn't it?
And just for the record richard dawkins is a highly educated idiot.

mwnciboo wrote:Artistic license in the Books makes a mockery of the table top game. For example how can a Primarch like Fulgrim struggle to kill a WraithLord. An Avatar of Khaine I could understand but a WraithLord.

By extrapilation of your argument that a WL nearly killed a Primarch, therefore if a Dread could kill a WL then by rights a Dread could kill a Primarch.

This idea is nonsense and comes around because of poorly written fluff, and because people base alot of crazy ideas on fluff which has poor continuity over the decades.

In my opinion, if the fluff stuck to the game. The fluff would be terrible. The game is (intended at least) written to stop one force being overly powerfull. That kind of restricts things in terms of background.

+ if it's about continuity then the rules are surely a far worse measure than the fluff. They change explicitly every four or five years.

mwnciboo wrote:Artistic license in the Books makes a mockery of the table top game. For example how can a Primarch like Fulgrim struggle to kill a WraithLord. An Avatar of Khaine I could understand but a WraithLord.

By extrapilation of your argument that a WL nearly killed a Primarch, therefore if a Dread could kill a WL then by rights a Dread could kill a Primarch.

This idea is nonsense and comes around because of poorly written fluff, and because people base alot of crazy ideas on fluff which has poor continuity over the decades.

I don't know, I think Dreadnoughts would be tough for a primarch to kill too.

Yep they fought, hard so it seems but none of us can really say what's what, even all our mma and ufc fighters have tough battles no matter if they're the champ or not! i don't think people are saying that a dreadnought or a WL would so seriously whoop each other so quick they wouldn't get to retaliate? they would fight, blow for blow or whatever they'd do, if WL were that tough why not see more of them in fluff or on the table?

And yeah o.k maybe if we're talking about old metal mini's then we've got an argument....but we're not, we're grown men discussing if in real life a giant soul driven wraithlord would beat the snot out of a giant mechanical behemoth in the far distant future where there is only war! see it's a completely valid argument!

Klawz wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease

Based on what? Did you read a story about fulgrim beating up a dreadnought?
Be careful you're starting to sound like an eldar fanboi..

lexicanum wrote:With Fulgrim throwing an enraged attack on Eldrad with his sword, as the primarch was insulted by the implications of Eldrad concerning his brother Horus, Khiraen sprung into action parrying the blow for Eldrad and dueling Fulgrim himself. The battle was fierce and Khiraen managed to personally kill the entire contingent of the vaunted Phoenix Guard, as well as deliver a fierce blow on the primarch's chest with his power fist. However, the primarch was helped by the demonic properties of his Laeran blade and managed to cripple the wraithlord. Afterwards, still controlled by his blade, Fulgrim broke the golden sarcophagus that contained Khiraen's soulstone and delivered the soul of the ancient warrior to be devoured by the Great Enemy of the Eldar race, Slaanesh.

ah hem...

Were the phoenix guard packing any thing that could hurt a wraithlord? UM honor guard couldn't. And they would try even if they couldn't if they felt fulgrim was danger.

Agreed the fluff would be terrible, that said some on the antics you read about make me laugh when my Space Marine Captain gets flattened by a Battlecannon (no BL +2 inv HH Save).
The Canon really should remain for continuity, rules change I can live with that, but the number of times certain things have changed. But then this is dynamic and evolving hobby.
I would say in that Fulgrim was trying to fight Eldrad and a WL that must count for something

nerdfest09 wrote:

And yeah o.k maybe if we're talking about old metal mini's then we've got an argument....but we're not, we're grown men discussing if in real life a giant soul driven wraithlord would beat the snot out of a giant mechanical behemoth in the far distant future where there is only war! see it's a completely valid argument!

The point of discussing the old metal minis was to point out that dreads are in fact "bigger" just shorter. Pay attention.

You do realise there is a tongue planted firmly in my cheek through all of this? :-)

Sorry I thought you were referring to an earlier post of mine...I feel a bit sheepish now.








*bahh

I was wondering who was going to crack 1st. When all is said and done, if someone could arrange a 40K deathmatch between a Dreadnought and a Wraithlord, I would probably give my left nut to watch it.

Nerdfest09 I love those "Brothers of Sand" beautiful and unusual paint scheme. Really original, i love Home brew SM.

nerdfest09 wrote:The WL is 'taller' not bigger cut those basketball player legs down a bit and lets play!
and critically damage...sounds good to me, people die from critical injuries, therefore you just said that a dreadnought could critically injure therefore kill a WL!


BOOOYA!

No once again you twist the words, critical as in seriously hurt or damage, its a monstrous creature made of one of the hardest materials in 40K and therefore wont die from loss of blood or a serious injury, its not human or technically alive.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

nerdfest09 wrote:Nope the dread would have the strength easy! if you actually think about the size of the dreadnought in reality! the immense power the hydrolics could produce! look at a car crusher it crushes cars easy like butter, a dread would be bigger more advanced technically and built for combat so bye bye WL


Automatically Appended Next Post:
:-) and hello ongoing argument!

You just voided your own arguement because the WL is bigger and more advanced in tech then the dread......so i think youl find that dread at most would critically damage the wraithlord, but only in a dream does it have the means to kill one.

The WL is not bigger, only taller. try taking an old metal WL in one hand and an old metal dread in another and see which is heavier. when doing so keep in mind that dread is partially hollow. Also when it comes to warmachines eldar tech could not be said to be more advanced; simply different.

Unreal Toast wrote:Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease

Based on what? Did you read a story about fulgrim beating up a dreadnought?
Be careful you're starting to sound like an eldar fanboi..

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/


Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

My money is on the Wraithlord. It's so much faster, and also, Wraithbone would tear through the metal like a chainsword through human flesh. Although, the dreadnought, if it got just one swing in, would already have the upper hand, because of the power fist/clamp/hand.

Unreal Toast wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

Is there any novel of a Primarch killing a dreadnought?

Cheesecat wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

Is there any novel of a Primarch killing a dreadnought?

Nope. well atleast ive never read that its happened :/

But you see the point im trying to make, you can kinda gage the outcome anyway, i mean come on its a primarch !

Cheesecat wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

Is there any novel of a Primarch killing a dreadnought?

Well tere is a novel with a marine destroying a Dreadnaught, and a primarch killing a marine. Any good?

whatwhat wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

Is there any novel of a Primarch killing a dreadnought?

Well tere is a novel with a marine destroying a Dreadnaught, and a primarch killing a marine. Any good?

Plus, in the third Blood Angels novel (Red Thirst/Red Fury I think it's called) a Dreadnought from a Blood Angels Successor Chapter gets beaten up by a mutated Blood Angel clone..beast..thingie. If I remember rightly, it actually tears out the corpse from the Dreadnought's sarcophagus and then eats it.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well since Fulgrim beat a wraithlord, never mind that this wraithlord is near acient and is one of the Ulthwe council members, id say he could handle a dreadnaught with ease, especially since he would know more about a dreadnaughts weakness and strengths.

Eldar fanboy ? it doesnt take a fanboy to point out the facts :/

Pointing out that he would know a dreads weaknesses doesn't help your case.

And no, it doesn't take a fanboy to point out the facts but you haven't. all you've presented is conjecture.

Unreal Toast wrote:Oh and another thing, Eldar tech IS far more advanced then Space Marine tech, that much is very commonly known :/

I said eldar warmachines are not more advanced than imperials. Get it right. Take a look at eldar weapons vs Imp weapons; they are either nearly identical or in some ways slightly worse. Take the brightlance Vs the lascannon; brightlances are actually worse at penetrating armor of 12 or less and are only better against armor 14.
there are other examples but I'm sure someone else can point them out if you can't see them.

Eldar technology is far beyond standard imperial tech, i mean, that's basic 40k 101

Retribution wrote:Eldar technology is far beyond standard imperial tech, i mean, that's basic 40k 101

I thought it was Space Marines are never, ever, EVA allowed to lose, even in debates about who's Big Expensive Robot Toy could beat the other one up.

whatwhat wrote:Fluff wise. A Dreadnought is a machine controlled by a dead space marine. A wraithlord is a thousand year old warrior with wraithbone skin who not only towers over a dread but is far more agile. Whereas a dreadnought is a gun turret/power fist on clunky metal legs.

Fulgrim even had trouble defeating a wraithlord.

Don't forget though that not every dead marine gets put into a dreadnought, only those who have been particularly heroic are so if you'd like they are both hero's of their kinds and some dreads are likely a thousand years old themselves. If I have my fluff right some are several millenia old even.

I think there should be a third option Deff Dreadz.

My Dad could beat up your Dad.


Sheesh..... Pathos overwhelming Brain......Trolling...

Unreal Toast wrote:

Ok well first of all, Fulgrim is a primach and Khiraen is a wraithlord, Khiraen nearly killed a primach and that much is a fact, it is directly written in the novel. now as far as im concerned a Primach can kill a dreadnaught without to much trouble. so by this information it is enough to assume that a wraithlord is tougher then a dreadnaught.

That Goldhelm fellow sounds like an unusually skilled wraithlord (seer council member and what not) how do we know Fulgrim wouldn't have beaten down another wraithlord in his sleep? Your assumption is simply that

Second of all, it is a fact that the wraithlord is armed with more weapons then a dreadnaught excluding the iron clad which has around the same therefore the wraithlord wont be outgunned by the dreadnaught.

Really? a lascannon/ missile launcher dread can pretty reliably kill a WL in two turns. a WL has about a 10% chance of killing a dread in one turn at range.

Third of all The wraithlord is far more flexable and faster then a dreadnaught could ever hope to be, yet another fact.

Flexible? probably. faster? says who? I think once again you are confusing fact with your opinion. That certainly isn't supported by the rules (see below)

And lastly the dreadnaughts centre of ballence is flawed due to the larger upper half of the body in proportion to the bottom meaning that if it looses its ballence and falls, it cant get back up, however if a wraithlord falls, it can get back up. again due to the visable designs of both 'machines' this is fact.

Have you ever seen one in RL? Again not a fact but conjecture.

You are also constantly refering to table top game rules which has no relevance to this thread as if you had read my first post you would notic the words realistic meaning of the table top :/

So please save your armour values as they of no importance when were discussing the outcome should they be real.

The reason I use table top rules here is because they are the closest we have to an objective source of information on these fictional armies. BL books are great but unless the narrator comes out and says that one is better than the other it doesn't count for much unless demonstrated repeatedly. Saying this one time in a book this thing happened does not establish it will happen every time because as often as not it was designed to be a "crowning moment of awesome" where the character overcomes a foe he shouldn't have.

Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

Guitardian wrote:Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

There are 2 things to remember here though:
1. when you're that old, your memory isn't what it used to be and sometimes you forget where you are so it's nice to have some psyker fella around to remind you.

2. dreadnoughts are constantly fighting whereas wraithguard and wraithlords are only awakened in times of extreme need since they feel that removing their souls from the infinity circuit is akin to grave robbing. therefore a dreadnought which has existed for only a fraction of the time will have accumulated equal or greater combat experience.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

There are 2 things to remember here though:
1. when you're that old, your memory isn't what it used to be and sometimes you forget where you are so it's nice to have some psyker fella around to remind you.

Of course. Wraithlord loses because Wraithlord is senile.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Have you ever seen one in RL? Again not a fact but conjecture.

Surely this caps the argument off then? Considering everything but stuff we can see in real life is conjecture I don't see the point in debating who would win. ... or why you've been so eminently arguing over the matter in this thread.

whatwhat wrote:
Surely this caps the argument off then? Considering everything but stuff we can see in real life is conjecture I don't see the point in debating who would win. ... or why you've been so eminently arguing over the matter in this thread.

Cuz it's fun

In all seriousness I'm not sure why I've jumped headlong into this thread. I'ts kind of silly. The way I see it we're arguing over ice cream flavors. I guess when I hear statements like "a dreadnought couldn't hurt wraithbone" or "the WL could easily kill a dreadnought with his brightlance" I feel like I need point out the sillyness of it.

Yeah this is getting no where, whatever facts / conjecture that either of us come out with the other will always find an appropriate response that counters it.

Maybe somone should send an e-mail to relic and ask them to animate a fight scene

You gotta admit it would be an interesting fight to watch

Finally we all agree to disagree! and then it's settled, because you feel you're right, well...you're right, and because i feel i'm right,....i'm right! so we're both right and no one got hurt...yay!


next question?

nerdfest09 wrote:next question?

Dreadnaught + Wraithlord vs Ratling + Squig Tag match.

Hmmm tough one whatwhat, are we talking giant squig here? and do they have a herder? and how close is the ratling packing what ammo? also I'll need the lenght of the grass they're fighting on, the current wind speed and relative humidity in the air before i can give my usual accurate answers :-)

Well unfortunately the Squig is only knee high to the ratling, who is only carrying a knife.

But on the upside the Wraithlord has an itch.

Waff loard wheel crush ur puny squidzor lol

No i have no idear what a ratling or a squid is in warhammer.

'squid' lol, now that would be a match, a WL against a giant squid! maybe if someone distracted the Wl with the squig, and threw the ratling at it... just maybe.... very maybe.....absolutely nothing would happen!

Oh i just saw what i did there, i completely miss read.

Well weather its a squid or a squig i still have no idear what it is lol

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Guitardian wrote:Okay math and AV and such aside (which I tested out and got 3/3 for the wraith... sorry wounds vs. AV is a big advantage)), assume they both have superior weapons, armor, and awesomeness. Here's the difference though: Ancient Dread is maybe maybe at most 10,000 years old.... whoop dee doo so is an Eldar exarch. (sheesh, kids these days) Wraithlords can date back to heroes from The Fall when they started using spirit stones, back when mankind was creating fire.

There are 2 things to remember here though:
1. when you're that old, your memory isn't what it used to be and sometimes you forget where you are so it's nice to have some psyker fella around to remind you.

2. dreadnoughts are constantly fighting whereas wraithguard and wraithlords are only awakened in times of extreme need since they feel that removing their souls from the infinity circuit is akin to grave robbing. therefore a dreadnought which has existed for only a fraction of the time will have accumulated equal or greater combat experience.

What? Dreadnaughts are revered machines from the golden age of man, they're preserved until it's absolutely necessary to use them, in the same vain as Terminators or Landraiders. They are not constantly fighting :\

Google squig it's like a red beach ball with heaps of teeth and an attitude, would be funny if you got some and modelled them eating your eldar! :-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or bringing down a wraithlord! oooh now i'm treading dangerous waters!

nerdfest09 wrote:Google squig it's like a red beach ball with heaps of teeth and an attitude, would be funny if you got some and modelled them eating your eldar! :-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or bringing down a wraithlord! oooh now i'm treading dangerous waters!

Or i could have a WL holding it in one head and the other hand scratching his head, and then have a question mark above his head.

yep so do that!

Retribution wrote:
What? Dreadnaughts are revered machines from the golden age of man, they're preserved until it's absolutely necessary to use them, in the same vain as Terminators or Landraiders. They are not constantly fighting :\

That's not supported by the current fluff. And terminators and their rides see just as much action as anyone else.

It would really suck if you were a dreadnaught and you had an itch on your forehead of something.

Something like that would bug the hell out of me.

Haha, dread accidentally punctures it's own sarcophagus trying to scratch an itch, that would definitely be a dread from the Emperor's Pointy Sticks (TSOALR references ftw).

I am suddenly envisioning a theme game where each team has a tank zooming around a track in a demolition derby type contest. In the middle of the track is a wrestling ring for all the MC/walkers to tag in and out of. Ork battlewagon + deff dread, marine land raider + dreadnought, eldar falcon + wraithlord and so on... with the stands full of troops from every faction hooting and rioting like a football match. fun fun fun

I also have a vision of a Wraithlord trying to eat some cake, then realizing it has no mouth but seems to be pushing the cake into its helmet anyway.

How is this even a debate?

Wraithlord > Dreadnought

Brightlance to the Face can kill a Dreadnought in one shot. Even with a Lascannon, thats 3 rounds of shooting for a Dreadnought. at most, you are talking about an autocannon and being able to potentially do it in 2 rounds. Meanwhile, the Wraithlord potentially killed three Dreadnoughts in the same amount of time.


Close Combat. Again! Wraithlord greater. Wounds, blah blah blah, armor...monstorous creature, 2d6 armor pen, blah blah blah. How is that even an arguement?


Fluff Wise,

I would say their tied. Both have great fluff, but are great looking models and both are ancient warriors of their respective races housed in awesome machines of war. Easily a Tie!


But game wise.
all Wraithlord.

Its a debate because it's irrelevant. It's always fun to conjecture about the irrelevant, jettison the superfluous, and be disinclined to acquiesce to another's opinion. It keeps us all having something to do before wurk.

whatwhat wrote:Well unfortunately the Squig is only knee high to the ratling, who is only carrying a knife.

But on the upside the Wraithlord has an itch.

An itch cured by rubbing a squig on it

Back on track I think a Dread would win. Don't know why it just would.

phantommaster wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Well unfortunately the Squig is only knee high to the ratling, who is only carrying a knife.

But on the upside the Wraithlord has an itch.

An itch cured by rubbing a squig on it

Back on track I think a Dread would win. Don't know why it just would.

Well thats hardly a fair arguement lol


And i wasnt aware that wraithlords get itchy, especialy with the lack of skin they have

And the vision of it rubbing a squid on itself made me laugh.

Wraithlord,but the dread would NOT go down without a fight.I mean,the dread would bust up the wraithlord BADLY,but the dreadnought is just to sophisticated,way too many vulnerable parts.Meaning, if the wraithlord were to swing at one of the dreadnoughts legs,not even getting halfway through,it would still be crippled if it broke one o the hydraulics on the legs,crippling a drednought would not be that hard for a wraithlord.if those hydraulics were to brake on one leg,it could come crashing down,insa death.But the wraithlord would be half-dead by then,crushed arms,swiss-=cheesy armor,you get the point.

fun fun fun on the playground

Khiraen Goldhelm vs Davian Thule

That could be an interesting one.