Hey Dakka, I am going to be putting my Daemon Prince in Golden Daemon next month and I would love use to give me some feed back as I really want to come close to wining.

Another thing, I do not know what to put on the base so could you give me some ideas for that please.

Any comments mean or nice would be appreciated and could you please also rate the figure.

Don't even try.

GD is so far out of your league right now that it's not even worth entering. You won't make it past the qualifying rounds.

If you google Golden Daemon OP , you'll find the work of others that have participated.

Unless you are in the Young Blood Category , your chances are not favorable ( even the young painters are really good )

Why do you think so?

No offense, but look up some GD winners.
Thats just a stock model, and its not even dynamic.

Feforfar wrote:Why do you think so?

Just google the Golden Demon winners and see the things they come up with.

The face really needs some work too.

Yeah sorry brother... if you were shooting for Baltimore MD - USA perhaps you might stand a chance but otherwise, especially in Europe the level is so high that it's sickening to us mortals.

Well, if I was to enter that model in, how would you paint it?

Your model is table top quality. It's not poorly painted. It's just not very good either. At 3 feet away, it'll look passable.

But GD models are a completely other level. They're perfectly cut and clean (I can see a few mold lines on your model already, that's pretty much an automatic loss right there). The bases are generally extravagant and dynamic, as are the models themselves (and not just a daemon prince just standing there... doing nothing...).

Additionally, the level of painting required to qualify, let alone win a Golden Daemon is incredible. You seem to have just given a basic base coat and wash. Although a standard for basic table-top level miniatures, it would be an absolute insult to enter into a GD. GD painters make extensive use of blending and freehanding. A GD model must near perfection. As other posters have said, look at GD winners out there and see for yourself. Better yet, look at the runners up, and see just how such amazing models still don't win, and then compare that to your prince.

We're not insulting your painting. Myself and Lunahound wouldn't even qualify either.

Why wouldn't you qualify and I'm only asking.
Plus I think this is going into the young bloods.

If I worked hard at paitning him, do you think I would get close?

We wouldn't qualify because we're not near the expected level of quality. And neither is your DP.

Even in youngbloods, there's some amazing stuff. You wouldn't get far.

And honestly, no, I don't think you would get close. You need to spend a lot of time and get a lot more practice. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm saying that you need a lot more work, and you won't be winning any awards any time soon. If you can keep your enthusiasm, and augment it with plenty patience and a lengthy dose of practice, you may end up on such a level, but it's a long way away. Focus on learning basic painting techniques first, before you start getting starry-eyed over such massive goals.

I dont plan on wining, I never planned on wining, I just want to give it a go!

Just a question, how could I improve it?

As I said, there's so much that could be changed, fixed, and improved upon that you had best just learn basic painting techniques first. When you learn the basics, you'll see much of what needs fixing yourself.

And I'd dare to say that it's not worth entering. The judges would drop something like that at first look without so much as a thought. You won't gain anything other than a feeling of inadequacy. You're better off going to various conventions that many of these (many professional) painters attend, and asking them for tips. Many people are more than happy to talk about their hobbies, and competition class painters should be no exception.

Feforfar wrote:I dont plan on wining, I never planned on wining, I just want to give it a go!

Just a question, how could I improve it?

You know how when you see your model , the light gives it shades ( darker spot ) and high lights?

Golden Daemon produces colorings that gives that kind of depth without the help of real lights.
In other words you can think of it as a 2 D painting on its own as if you are looking at a picture.

How far you can get into GD depends how realistic and smooth you can produce the minimum of that effect.
Not to mention metal gleams , painting the eyes and lenses as if its wet or glassy , or gems , etc etc

( You did google GD winner's works right? )

There model are fantastic but there not Daemons, thats the other thing, and it looks like they've been converted!

Feforfar wrote:There model are fantastic but there not Daemons, thats the other thing, and it looks like they've been converted!

"Golden Daemon" is the name of the painting contest. It doesnt mean the models in question must be a Demon.
Just like Ford Ram doesnt mean you are riding a mountain goat.
Conversion of course helps. Every tiny extra effort you put into helps tip the results.

What? The models arent demons?

You do need some work before getting to GD standard.
There are many things that need to be done or learned in your situation, feathering, we blending, ability to do NMM or even the higher standard metallic painting. Color schemes.

Your colors are good, but no offense man you need to read up on cold and warm colors. You need to figure out which colors contrast. Learn the color wheel, get a good idea on how to mix gradually and find your technique. Find the ability to do all of these things.

I see that in your profile your age is 14. Your still young man you have to work hard and keep working to get to where those artists are.


And converting models is usually better. The more unique a model is the better of a chance it stands in taking a prize.

Conversion is arguably a must since if it just looks like any old thing taken out of its box and assembled... well that's just boring.

Ok, how can I convert my DP, guys I know use aren't trying to be mean, but I really want help, I want it to look good at least, even if I dont get past round 1.

1-How could I convert it?

2-A painting suggestion

Can you at least just answer that please, than I'll shut up!

Fe, you can enter your models if you want. If you only want to enter and don't care about winning, then go for it.

If you want to work towards winning as a Youngblood (which I assume you classify as) then why not start actively trying to learn the techniques you will need?

I am sure a lot of people on Dakka will happily give you advice if you start updating your threads showing you attempting and advancing through techniques like

Highlighting
basic Object source lighting
use of wash shading and inking
basing
and converting.

Why not choose one of the above, research it, and start trying to put it into effect onto a model then show it to Dakka so you can get advice on how to advance further with it? Try for learning one technique at a time, and expect to need a lot of practice and patience, but everyone has had to do it to learn how to paint decently, yet alone to GD standard.

Ok, in his right hand, would it look good if I put the axe (it came with the set) in it, so convert the axe in to his right hand?

And also put some more horns on his head and and his left hand, put a dead nid or SM?

And, I'll go 1 step at a time like you said

Id say enter it and see what happens. I think its a fine piece, and you should be proud of what you've done. As to the base, id say something with rocks might look good.

Feforfar wrote:Ok, how can I convert my DP, guys I know use aren't trying to be mean, but I really want help, I want it to look good at least, even if I dont get past round 1.

1-How could I convert it?

2-A painting suggestion

Can you at least just answer that please, than I'll shut up!

First off, I like your enthusiasm, don't loose that. Ever. Second, it's nice too see that your really open to suggestions, that's crucial to learning to be a better painter. Alright let me have a crack at your questions.

1- The conversion I see for him is holding a Guardsman (or Marine) while torchering him with his left hand. That would help him not look like he's just standing there flipping off the enemy.

2- Now painting is one thing that is a bit more important than conversions. The first thing that I would recommend would be to break up the orange, making the armor a dark green or dark purple would definitively break it up without too much contrast.

so are you saying change it from black to purple or green and with the conversion, DONT put the axe there instead put a dead thing there and with the base im thinking of putting some dead nids!

Golden Daemon?

Come back in a couple more decades of painting

Thats a nice comment!

I mean, it's not terrible. I'm sure it'd look great on the tabletop....

I can also tell how much effort you put into it, which I give you internets for...But lemme break it down:

Colors are...wat? You're going from.dark flesh?> Some kind of red> Orange

The colors aren't correct. It should be less obvious that you're moving from red to orange...Just consider that and invest in a color wheel or something. The theory is excellent. Some of us just have a natural inclination with this thing, but others don't.

THE FACE- not enough effort. Paint the eyes, do facial highlights, make those teeth separate.

Armor is wat? You're doing a lowlight with orange? Wat?

I can see you have a LOT of potential. You have a good brush technique and you know what to do. Try again?

OH, I almost forgot. Get some matte finish. Your models are too shiny, and washes just make it worse.

What do I use instead of washes and how would you paint the skin?

You photos don't help the quality of the model. NEVER USE FLASH. yeah I enter GD my first year and I shortly realized I had no idea what I was doing. Technique, they don't judge the base work and they actually think unconverted, exceptionally painted citadel models are better becuase it exemplifies games workshops on hard work. Yeah sorry bro, you guy isn't ready. Its a great paint job, but not to a GD standard. Try to use a lot more thinner coats to blend to different colors on the flesh.

I dont care if its not GD standard, I just want to see how it goes and do they give you feedback on your models?

I'm a person who gives it a go, dont care if they laugh either.

Now with conversions, is it better or worse?

nononono. Washes are fine Just spray some matte finish over it to reduce glare. Washes are terribly shiney.

I would personally go something like.....

Deep red (possibly blood/chaos 1:2 or something like that)>
Less dark red (maybe a 1:1 blood/chaos)
Blood red>
Blood/macharius (2:1)>
Macharius>
Blazing/macharius (1:1)>
Blazing>
Blazing and skull(1:1) for extreme highlighting and sharp edges

Off the top of my head of course. That would probably be more than I'd actually end up doing, but it helps to visualize every stage of it.

NOW, this is really only for skin. Nothing else really needs this much work. Really, you can create great skin with only three colors. Look at some horses on the GW site.

The thing with conversions and basing is that they're not actually judged, but they have a huge impact. While a sub-par model with an amazing base is not going to win over an amazing model with a sub-par base, when you have two amazing models on the table, an amazing base goes a long way. Additionally, conversions don't directly impact the scoring itself, but a well converted model is more likely to draw a judge's attention then a vanilla model. However, make sure that the conversion is perfect. While a well converted model won't gain any points for it, a poorly converted one will certainly lose points for it.

The thing with Golden Daemon is that, at the higher echelons of the competition, models become so close in extravagancy that they can no longer judge purely on the appearance and techniques employed, and have to look for the tiniest of mistakes to differentiate second from first. A single out of place speck of paint can lose the competition for you.

That said, I don't believe that simply giving you suggestions on what to do for your individual model will help you. You need to work on gaining a basic grasp of painting technique, colour theory, and line theory. We could give you suggestions for your DP all day, but you won't really learn anything. However, study those three points I mentioned, and you'll be more than able to see for yourself what needs changing.

No, it doesn't happen overnight, and yes, expect to spend many months practicing before you even become halfway decent.

Also, spend money on models that are particularly HARD to paint. In other words, NOT marines.

Like this:


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Or these:

Or this guy:

Ah ok, so paint the hard looking models!
What would you suggest for a Daemon model?

Well, not exactly. Try different elements, like skin or metal or hide, scenery..everything really

A bloodthirster can be a challenge....Put modelling those things is hard as hell. Same with that dragon dude in my post. He's like, impossible.

Try your best on ALL models. Don't use the same colors all the time. Work with every color you possibly can, WHITE,YELLOW and REDS are very important. A solid white can often win a prize for you. Same with NMM

Ok, whats NMM and what is that dragon called?

Now, realize i'm no body, but this is how I think it could be improved.

The main beef is its only a few colors, I could see the bone spurs and spikes being bone instead of black. I could see the brass and silver being cleaner more distinctive. There could be some runes tatoos on some of his larger muscles. The teeth being more white and distinctive. As for the base alot of people use Cork for ruined buildings or lava flows...

So, what kind of ruins and what colour?

You clearly need some kind of step-by-step guidance on in-depth painting techniques. The first thing to do is to make sure you know what washing, highlighting, blending, layering, glazing, varnishing and priming all mean. Then to go onto more advanced painting techniques from there.

Not to be mean, but I really thinking you should pick up a How To book or DVD, GW do a "How to Paint Citadel Miniatures" book, and there are some good miniature painting DVDs out there. Once you've read/watched them, practice, practice, practice.

Practice on test models, on bits of sprue, and eventually on your own model. Get angry with it (this almost always happens eventually), strip and retry. Play with techniques, develop brush control. Every model you paint will be slightly better than the next. Browse through tutorials on various techniques for effects such as source lighting, specific materials, freehand. Try them all out, to varying degrees of success. Eventually, if you keep at it and you really "get" it, you'll be a great painter.

As for what is possible in a month, I'd still get those learning materials, then plan out the colour scheme, probably on paper or on the computer. Your problem with this model is that the colours are too similar. There is so little variation that the various parts, instead of being defined, melt into each other.

For the base, come up with a story for it and make a suitable base. Is he 40k or Fantasy? Mid-battle or before/after? What kind of world is he on if its 40k? Is he in a city? Where is he if it's Fantasy. The Empire is mostly forests, the Chaos Wastes are bizarre and Norsca is barren and full of snow. The base is what places him in the world. Imagine it as if he had been teleported from wherever he had been and taken a circular chunk out of the surrounding area with him.

Also, I think you're trying too hard to get this model done by committee here on Dakka. There is no "right" way that we're keeping from you on how to paint them.

Here's some examples of how coming up with a story can help you compose your piece.

Perhaps the Daemon is in Khemri, and the ruins are ancient Tomb King ones, surrounded by ochre sands, scorching sunlight and the stone is cream and sand-strewn, old hieroglyphics barely visible through the decay, while shards of turquoise from gems set into the decoration of the fallen temple glint from their sockets and on the forgotten floors.

On the other hand, perhaps the Daemon is in the ruins of an Adeptus Mechanicus foundry, bits of twisted metal scattered about, while debris from the nearby crater on the concrete floor has scattered across the neat order, upsetting it, parts of solid grey, rainstreaked walls still etched with the symbol of the Omnissiah standing tall, when the Daemon notices it and with a negilent desecration, scratches three long claws along its surface.

The first one leans towards creams, ochres and blues; while the second focuses on metallics, greys and browns. Another possible setting would be for deep woodlands: greens, browns and yellows. And this is just for ruins, never mind any other kind of possible base.

If we go for a purely colour-theory example, I'd go for the woodlands look, because green contrasts with red. However, the desert one could work equally well as then you have the three primaries: yellow, blue and red. The Adeptus Metallicus one would be difficult to pull off as the colours are all fairly neutral.

um, ok, i really dont get that last bit, but what about painting ruins on him?

Ok Fe, please listen. I think there are a few things that you need to understand here.
1. You do not need to enter a daemon model in to the Golden Demon competition.
2. You need to get a miniature painting tutorial, either a DVD, book, or watch some for free on YouTube. Honestly, some of the best ones are available from www.coolminiornot.com in their shop.
3. You do not get feedback in Golden Demon. They take your model, put it in a case in it's category, and then you come and pick it up after they finish with the judging. It's kind of a hassle if you're not looking at winning anything.
4. Go look at past Golden Demon winners. http://demonwinner.free.fr/
5. Continue painting, and don't get down. Your stuff looks good for what I assume has been the fairly short time you've been painting. Understand, I have been painting for 12 years now. I've won 3 Golden Demons. It takes time.

Ok, what about this figure, tell me what you think of him compared to mine!

Sorry its small!

Is you want to see it bigger: http://coolminiornot.com/255451

Use layers.... I'm personally planning on buying one of these guys, and i'm planning to paint his skin as a swirling rainbow. An acid trip. But, it looks like you've tried to imitate the dude on the back of the box..... nooooot good, be different- and don't nick my idea.

i wasn't niking the idea of the box, I'd always planned to do that and I run a khorne army so of course it'll be red!

The Red is boring, it doesn't 'jump out'- you should do harsh extreme highlights, then when the rest of the model is done just pain over the red with a red ink- it really made my wolf lords cloak look great.

When you say extreme highlights, what you mean and what's red ink????

Dakka has a tutorial forum , why not take a few hours reading the tips people posted?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/68.page

Well, red ink is ink that is red..... i dont how to put it more simply. And look at these links for highlighting tips http://www.coolminiornot.com/article/aid/192
http://www.coolminiornot.com/article/aid/227/page/2
http://www.coolminiornot.com/article/aid/23

Ok, thx


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There are some good ones there, you know any for Daemon skin toning?

You want to get at least this http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/131571-Night%20Lords%20Daemon%20Prince.html to enter.

I've seen that before, whats the diffrnece bwtween that and mine?

And what colour should those lines on his body be?

Got any good you-tube videos on how to do a DP's flesh?

He has done loads of highlights, you haven't. If you could get hold of, i think it was last months WD it has a painting tut for a DP- you'll just have to replace the blues with reds.

I have that and thats not a bad idea, so if it say for example, if it says ice blue or ultramarine blue, what do i use to replace it?

Well, you will need to go from black or red gore to fiery orange for the most extreme highlights. I tend to mix paint, more than actually use GW pre-sets. That foundation red would be a good base tho.

ok, im going to compare the blue colour and the red colour and tell me if there near each other:

Ice blue-2:1 of blood red and white
Regel blue: Blood red

I told you, i don't use GW colours- i mix paint. Just chose your darkest colour as the base and work up to your lightest colour.

Ok, thx

I think you are expecting results and solutions way too fast... Painting needs practice just like any other skills.
Take a deep breath , paint a bit more minis , get a hang of things first.
Feeling confident still? Try picking a photo of a paint job you really like and try to replicate the look.
If you manage to produce the same result , grats! If not , you still have improved.

Its a win win situation.

LunaHound be speaking the logics.

Why do you want to enter the Golden Daemon competition?

As someone whose just joined this forum, and not that much of a hobbyist, it's a credit to you all for being so supportive and providing advice. I can't believe not one post has been taking the piss - I guess that's the rest of the internet for you!

OP - looks like a good start, and better painting that I was doing at 14. Loads of good advice here, I agree that looking into what highlights, washes, etc are in turn, and specifically practicing that technique (rather than tryng to immediately use them all) and getting feedback would be a good idea.

Good luck!

borboski wrote:As someone whose just joined this forum, and not that much of a hobbyist, it's a credit to you all for being so supportive and providing advice. I can't believe not one post has been taking the piss - I guess that's the rest of the internet for you!

I thought I was...

Well, I want to, but I'd probably modded, so I pad it out with some constructive criticism.

But now that he's posted this, I think it's about time:

Feforfar wrote:Ok, what about this figure, tell me what you think of him compared to mine!

Sorry its small!

Is you want to see it bigger: http://coolminiornot.com/255451

Okay, here's the difference. His shows hours upon hours of dedication and practice, yours does not. Your's is shoddily cut, assembled, and painted. There is no patience in your work, and no skill. Up until now, I've been very lenient with my criticism. But that last post really strikes at me. You honestly think that your work is comparable to something like that? It's obvious that you havn't put even a quarter of the work that painter did into his Daemon Prince.

Furthermore, your constant whining for a quick fix and outright ignorance to the advice that is constantly given is frustrating at best. No, you are not the gak. Your painting is tabletop quality at best, and although you have the potential to improve, your attitude shows that you are unwilling to. You are setting yourself up for failure. I hope you enjoy it.

I was only asking, now that you've said I haven't put in not even a qaurter of the effort i can go fix that and learn more, there is a method in my madness.

Also, why am I entering Golden Demon?

Because I want to, I just want to say that I've tried and failed.
Does it really matter why I entered?

It's like me asking you, why do you paint figures?

I'm not trying to be mean , its just almost every comment you try and break my heart for painting, I know and you know that im not going to get far (not past the 1st round) but I want to achieve something and say I did it, have you ever tried to enter GD???????????

Nobody is trying to break your heart, they just don't see the point in entering a contest that you know for a fact you'll lose.

Feforfar wrote:Also, why am I entering Golden Demon?

Because I want to, I just want to say that I've tried and failed.
Does it really matter why I entered?

It certainly matters why you want to try. I've never heard of an Olympian saying he just wanted to go ahead and fail. But I imagine there are plenty of young people who want to eventually compete in the Olympics. A few of them work really hard and ultimately make it. Some others don't even make it to the Olympics, but even trying to get there takes a huge amount of effort. Unlike the Oympics, you can go ahead and enter a GD competition now without any practice or much effort. None of us can stop you. But you'll be wasting your time as well as the judges' time. Best to spend that time taking some of the suggestions already posted in this thread. And you'll definitely need a better reason than "to say I've tried and failed" to go back to painting day in and day out.

I want to achieve something and say I did it

Submitting a model to qualify for a Golden Daemon is not an achievement.

Everyone is just telling you the truth about your painting. Your deamon is has colors that dont go well together. my opinion too much red and not enough work on details. It takes a few MONTHS to get the hang of it. I think you should go to your local hobby store and ask for pointers. Also try to get other minis so you can practice is just like the old saying we have to crawl before we can walk but dont ever give up that would be just a waste. with so many comments i cant wait to see your next mini that should be a good one

Okay, I will just jump in here. Have you actually been through the previous Australian winners of each category for GD and the winners of the slayer swords.

For the past three years the swords have all been won by the same guys, and they are the ones who also consistently win the category section.



That is the winning entry from 40k Large Miniature last year. Look at the transitions on the skin on the horse, I mean really look AT them. Turns out you can't look AT them you'd be better looking FOR them and you won't find them.

You need to keep improving with your techniques, you need to learn/master blending and wet blending, as well as NMM and zenthial lighting, plus other techniques.

Lastly as others said, the best way to try and win a GD category is to try and tell a story, your miniature needs to be integrated with it's base but it also needs to tell a narrative.

to OP,

I can agree with the others that you are a tad too overconfident about entering GD let alone winning it. The thing is, sure, everyone likes having their hours of hard work and devotion to one miniature being praised and you being complimented on the work you have produced, but, this takes lots of time and motivation, like how everyone starts, like how i started, like how you will start. Take a good look at that DP, and point out the areas which can be improved. then look at some tuts as mentioned before.

As Neil Armstrong once said, 'Well, I think we tried very hard not to be overconfident, because when you get overconfident, that's when something snaps up and bites you'. See the point?

I'm sorry OP that model would be laughed out of a GD competition in the UK not sure about Australia not seen anything. But why worry so would mine and 95% of every other model painter. GD is for people who can make a lot of money selling their minatures and who are artists rather than hobbyists.

I actually think the armour is pretty good... sort of has a magma feel to it.

But really, all I can recommend is that you spend more time painting. How long have you been doing it for? I'm definitely on the mediocre range after a year but if you go and take a peek at my first Space Marines you'll see how far practice can take you.

You just need to immerse yourself into the hobby, read the Dakka painting section everyday, every tutorial that's out there and talk to people down at your FLGS. Don't be afraid to experiment or fail as there is absolutely NOTHING that can't be salvaged. So many times I have painted/broken/butchered something and thought about throwing the model away, but today there are only a relative handful of models that I am ashamed of (my bikes, for example... lost half the bitz ).

I'm not old or skilled enough to say how long it takes to learn to paint to a GD standard, but once you familiarise yourself with what it takes you'll be on the road for sure.


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And, reading your comments more carefully I think I'm going to add one final piece of criticism.

You have to learn to make these decisions by yourself, yes you can come on Dakka and ask for hints, tips, test the water with a design or whatever... But what you've been doing for this whole thread is effectively trying to get the community to write you a big how-to on painting your Daemon Prince.

What are you going to do when you move onto a new model? You're really not going to learn anything asking Dakka Vets how to paint your minis. Although one could argue that reading 'how-to' guides is a similar process, once you get a nose for painting you'll realise it isn't: I've assimilated the way I paint from various sources: GW guides, Codex Unforgiven, Relic Forums, Dakka, etc. and it's all truly become an amalgamation.

Once you actually sit down, experiment and LEARN you'll realise the experience gained is so much more valuable than anything we can tell you about painting a one-off model. You'll be able to purchase a figure, sit it down and know within a few seconds just exactly what techniques to employ. Conversions obviously take far more thought but when I'm not at home modelling I'll usually be thinking about what I want to do with a figure, get back and then physically try it through trial-and-error.

I suggest you google 'how to paint Chaos Daemons' and start small... This might be a tad patronising (you really do have some great foundation skills), but I first started out viewing the 'Eavy Metal guides, I suggest you try the same?

Links:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440166a&categoryId=1700001§ion=&aId=10500004a

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?pageMode=multi&categoryId=1700001&pIndex=1&aId=11600014&start=2

I am going to say this the right way the Daemon prince you posted would not win golden Daemon why he only worked on it for 4 hours I copied the painters comments from comon

Hiho.

It has been painted on Wednesday afternoon in about 4 hours with some "fresh air" breaks as a gift to the great new chief of the local GW Store, Gregor - a wonderful person - it is a gift to him for a good start and the store version of the model. 4 hours, puh... my back still hurts a bit, haha... whatever keep in mind by judging it that it has been painting rapidly with ultrasuperwetinwetpowerninjaturtlesherotechnique, hope you like him!

This demonprince model really rocks. The sprue is awesome in my eyes - first i was not really impressed, but when i did hold the sprue in ma hands - really wow and a big joy to paint! Base is build up from common earth, old lollipop sticks and thin wire and a stone i think...

4 hours - let me know what you think about it... maybe i will do this once a week to paint a miniature in the local GW store, every Wednesday, 4 hours, a mini, a brush and some good time...

Best Regards and keep on happy painting!
Roman

It is better than table top but not like this it won gold this year in Baltimore



Yours could win young bloods if you listen to people like Les Bursley or other painters like him, and use techniques that you don't know about like wet blending color pallet and the color wheel. You are doing very good for a beginner but there is always room for improvement.

Feforfar wrote:Ok, what about this figure, tell me what you think of him compared to mine!

Sorry its small!

Is you want to see it bigger: http://coolminiornot.com/255451

It's okay, I guess. Not the best I've ever seen. The new DP only has one pose, so it's hard to make him look like he's doing anything besides looking threatening. It's probably a couple years ahead of yours. Notice how flat the paint is. And how matte it is.


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sonofruss wrote:I am going to say this the right way the Daemon prince you posted would not win golden Daemon why he only worked on it for 4 hours I copied the painters comments from comon

Hiho.

It has been painted on Wednesday afternoon in about 4 hours with some "fresh air" breaks as a gift to the great new chief of the local GW Store, Gregor - a wonderful person - it is a gift to him for a good start and the store version of the model. 4 hours, puh... my back still hurts a bit, haha... whatever keep in mind by judging it that it has been painting rapidly with ultrasuperwetinwetpowerninjaturtlesherotechnique, hope you like him!

This demonprince model really rocks. The sprue is awesome in my eyes - first i was not really impressed, but when i did hold the sprue in ma hands - really wow and a big joy to paint! Base is build up from common earth, old lollipop sticks and thin wire and a stone i think...

4 hours - let me know what you think about it... maybe i will do this once a week to paint a miniature in the local GW store, every Wednesday, 4 hours, a mini, a brush and some good time...

Best Regards and keep on happy painting!
Roman

It is better than table top but not like this it won gold this year in Baltimore



Yours could win young bloods if you listen to people like Les Bursley or other painters like him, and use techniques that you don't know about like wet blending color pallet and the color wheel. You are doing very good for a beginner but there is always room for improvement.

Sorry, but what are you talking about? Your post is random and grammatically flawed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:

I want to achieve something and say I did it

Submitting a model to qualify for a Golden Daemon is not an achievement.

I agree. That proves nothing except that you took time out of your day to go to some place and hand over your model to a complete stranger. That's like filling out a job application, turning it in, and never bothering to try again. Or making a sandwich, then dropping it on the floor.

I haven't seen anyone post this yet. It's a look at most of the winners over the years.

http://demonwinner.free.fr/

Like I said before, traditionally Baltimore-USA was sort of a joke compared to the rest of the world, but now even that has changed... the level is extremely high everywhere.

Just my 2 cents. GW has a way they want you to paint models. Look at the winners of past evens and copy the work. Dry brushing is not the way to go because it's the easiest way to paint.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Just my 2 cents. GW has a way they want you to paint models. Look at the winners of past evens and copy the work. Dry brushing is not the way to go because it's the easiest way to paint.

Darn, and I was going to attempt to tell him that he needs to learn how to do that.

Elitest Jerk wrote:Just my 2 cents. GW has a way they want you to paint models. Look at the winners of past evens and copy the work. Dry brushing is not the way to go because it's the easiest way to paint.

Yeah there are definitely styles that come and go, some things are in vogue. The last few years have gone for this very high quality but rather drab look. I prefer some brightness in figures but a lot of winners of late have been very drab in grey and brown. That DKoK on horseback above exemplifies this. The quality is top rate but when all the winners look much like this then it doesn't seem as interesting as in previous years although there seemed more colour last year. A couple of years ago and it was all very drab. But this also seems reflected in the way a lot of the 'eavy metal stuff is being painted, they aren't as bright and colourful as they used to be.

As for the original post, the figure is at best tabletop quality. There's nothing wrong with that, I vastly prefer figures to be painted to table standard than remain unpainted, but it's not competition standard. I don't want to be big headed but I have a higher standard of painting than you but still wouldn't bother to enter anything, the standard is phenomenally high today and it's something I'll never reach.

Just enter your model. Look around at the competition and use the experience to grow.

Byte wrote:Just enter your model. Look around at the competition and use the experience to grow.

I really don't think he's at the point where he can glance at a few models and learn to paint Some people know hot to do that, other's don't.

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Byte wrote:Just enter your model. Look around at the competition and use the experience to grow.

I really don't think he's at the point where he can glance at a few models and learn to paint Some people know hot to do that, other's don't.

Negative much?

Well not really. I don't think most people know how to do that. It's like looking at the sistine chapel and saying "huh, yeah,never thought of doing it like that"

You won't really learn too much due to the extreme amounts of effort GD painters go through to remove all traces of actual painting.

Ok, I'll throw my hat into the ring, look, Freforfar GD is the big competition in the miniature painting world it's like the olympics or wimbledon or F1 (without the money or the babes that is) The guys who paint for it will have undoubtedly put hundreds of man hours into their pieces and years of practice before that. I'm not saying you couldn't win a GD but it's gonna take one hellluva lot of work. Also, throughout this thread, you've been asking for help and that's fine, to a point... But eventually you're just gonna have to work it out yourself, practice practice practice. If GD winners are Raphael Nadal then at the moment, your someone who plays tennis once or twice a week.
Yours Sincerely, Ludd

A year or two ago a friend of mine entered into the GD competition in Maryland. She is an excellent painter, perhaps the best I have ever seen. She paints models as a living (well, part-full time now in this economy) and receives commissions from all over the world. Her models have been featured in a few magazines (I am told) and even a few box covers.

When she entered, she didn't even make it to the "Runners Up," despite entering a model into every category of Fantasy. I think she won an honorable mention or something. Now, this would not have been such a let down, except that (a) she was hoping to win to help with her business (people will pay extra for GD winning painters, and it also attracts more business to boot) and (b) those that won had inferior paint jobs. Her's extensively features free hand detailing, 3D effects, light effects (glowing weapons casting light on the models, viewable from most all angles, and extremely realistic), dynamic effects (if you turned some of the entries, they appeared to be moving!), and just general badassery.

The models that beat her's actually had mold lines still visible! Lacked any real intrigue in posing, free hand, shading, etc... Featured no interesting dynamics or effects, just very run of the mill, excellent, paint jobs. Would look good as box art, but if you paid more than just the going price for a decent paint job, you would be getting had.

The rumored reason she didn't win? Well, for one, being female, two, it was pretty obvious the judges were good friends with the other applicants (greeting each other by first name, conversing about their goings on [kids, family, whatever]), and that the judges just seemed to have already chosen who was going to win the competition.

Over the past many years I have been playing 40k, I have seen an notable increase in corruption streaming through the hobby. I am told this is nothing new. I had always sort of hoped that war gaming would be above such weaknesses as petty favoritism, but obviously it isn't.

So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

For the base, try making it into a volcano type thing. heated rocks, cracks w/ lava, etc.

Skinnattittar wrote:A year or two ago a friend of mine entered into the GD competition in Maryland. She is an excellent painter, perhaps the best I have ever seen. She paints models as a living (well, part-full time now in this economy) and receives commissions from all over the world. Her models have been featured in a few magazines (I am told) and even a few box covers.

When she entered, she didn't even make it to the "Runners Up," despite entering a model into every category of Fantasy. I think she won an honorable mention or something. Now, this would not have been such a let down, except that (a) she was hoping to win to help with her business (people will pay extra for GD winning painters, and it also attracts more business to boot) and (b) those that won had inferior paint jobs. Her's extensively features free hand detailing, 3D effects, light effects (glowing weapons casting light on the models, viewable from most all angles, and extremely realistic), dynamic effects (if you turned some of the entries, they appeared to be moving!), and just general badassery.

The models that beat her's actually had mold lines still visible! Lacked any real intrigue in posing, free hand, shading, etc... Featured no interesting dynamics or effects, just very run of the mill, excellent, paint jobs. Would look good as box art, but if you paid more than just the going price for a decent paint job, you would be getting had.

The rumored reason she didn't win? Well, for one, being female, two, it was pretty obvious the judges were good friends with the other applicants (greeting each other by first name, conversing about their goings on [kids, family, whatever]), and that the judges just seemed to have already chosen who was going to win the competition.

Over the past many years I have been playing 40k, I have seen an notable increase in corruption streaming through the hobby. I am told this is nothing new. I had always sort of hoped that war gaming would be above such weaknesses as petty favoritism, but obviously it isn't.

So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

Well... Baltimore GD has always been a joke. Most 'young blood' entries elsewhere were better than the Baltimore 'adult' winners. The last few years have changed however, and many really good painters are getting involved now.

Here's of an example of a GD youngbloods winner:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=3300001§ion=community&aId=10500056a
This is a great example of:
1. A story, The terrified guardsman and the leering commisssar.
2. Conversion, Look at the detail on the base and all the little extras in the piece.
3. Amazing painting, Blending on the coat, excellent palette choices and highlights.
Sorry, wouldn't work, dunno why.

Just paint it up as good as you can and enter it anyway

Don't bother with converting it as it's already so far along, you'd just end up wrecking what you have right now.
At the very least you'll end up with a great center piece for your army.

You're not good enough for Golden Demon. I'm quite elitist when it comes to painting and don't even bother reading threads if I think the models look like garbage. Yet this has gone on for three pages... why?

Assuming you're not trolling, drop the stubborn ignorance and be realistic. Set yourself a goal for the competition next year, and in the meantime get down to your local store and demand to be taught the basic techniques. Read every WD for their painting guides; they are the only good thing in that rag but they do work. Then, next year, start a new thread showing everyone how far you've come, with a link to this piss poor paintjob, and then you'll feel a real sense of achievement.

Anti-Mag wrote:You're not good enough for Golden Demon. I'm quite elitist when it comes to painting and don't even bother reading threads if I think the models look like garbage. Yet this has gone on for three pages... why?

Assuming you're not trolling, drop the stubborn ignorance and be realistic. Set yourself a goal for the competition next year, and in the meantime get down to your local store and demand to be taught the basic techniques. Read every WD for their painting guides; they are the only good thing in that rag but they do work. Then, next year, start a new thread showing everyone how far you've come, with a link to this piss poor paintjob, and then you'll feel a real sense of achievement.

I wasnt goin to bother commenting on this thread, but by god ur comment just takes the biscuit....

Yes the DP isnt up to a GD standard but its not a piss poor paintjob either.

When it comes to mentioning trolling, we need a "he who smelt it, dealt it" rule...

johnscott10 wrote:

Anti-Mag wrote:You're not good enough for Golden Demon. I'm quite elitist when it comes to painting and don't even bother reading threads if I think the models look like garbage. Yet this has gone on for three pages... why?

Assuming you're not trolling, drop the stubborn ignorance and be realistic. Set yourself a goal for the competition next year, and in the meantime get down to your local store and demand to be taught the basic techniques. Read every WD for their painting guides; they are the only good thing in that rag but they do work. Then, next year, start a new thread showing everyone how far you've come, with a link to this piss poor paintjob, and then you'll feel a real sense of achievement.

I wasnt goin to bother commenting on this thread, but by god ur comment just takes the biscuit....

Yes the DP isnt up to a GD standard but its not a piss poor paintjob either.

Takes the biscuit? I'm offering an opinion, and being honest about it. Get off your high horse bro.

I think you've done a pretty good job so far with your demon prince, and you show promise as a painter. You're model is obviously unfinished. With more work it will probably look quite cool.

As for GD...

There is no point even asking how you might paint that model better. Because the first thing anyone here is going to tell you is that 'out of the box demon prince' isn't going to get anywhere. Even with the best paint job in the world; you would struggle to get placed.

First thing you need is a new model, and a concept... your model really needs to appear like it has a bit of narrative behind it. The pose, the colours, the base, should all tell a story.

Second thing you need; is to spend about 6 months painting it. Because that is what GD winners often do. Being skilled is only a tiny part of it. What really separates GD winners from the rest of us, is the insane amounts of time and effort they pour into every tiny detail. Not to mention money... I frequently see them chop up sickeningly expensive models just to use for base details.

Do all that, and come back to us... then maybe we'll have something to discuss.

Anti-Mag wrote:You're not good enough for Golden Demon. I'm quite elitist when it comes to painting and don't even bother reading threads if I think the models look like garbage. Yet this has gone on for three pages... why?

Assuming you're not trolling, drop the stubborn ignorance and be realistic. Set yourself a goal for the competition next year, and in the meantime get down to your local store and demand to be taught the basic techniques. Read every WD for their painting guides; they are the only good thing in that rag but they do work. Then, next year, start a new thread showing everyone how far you've come, with a link to this piss poor paintjob, and then you'll feel a real sense of achievement.

Whoa, bro. I know you're trying to convey the strength of your criticism (and honestly, the OP needs it) but you've got a lot of hate in that post. What? Did a worse painter than you steal your commission or something? I don't see why you feel the need to attack him or his model. It isn't like the four pages of this thread is everyone telling him that he's gonna win; it's quite to the contrary actually.

Telling him "he isn't good enough" and that his paintjob is "piss-poor" goes over the line of what's constructive and what's downright insulting imho. You said yourself you don't normally post in threads like these; perhaps you should stick to that mantra.

/rant

Samus_aran115 wrote:Or making a sandwich, then dropping it on the floor.

Lol, good example.

Ok how is it demon winner website spelled my last name right but stuff of legends screwed up.. OI!!!

Ok onto you: Here's the deal some of the guys are being a little harsh but better to be harsh and honest because that is the only way you will improve. The only secret to winning a demon is time. Jakob Rune Neilson, and Mathieu Fontaine both told me that. Find a painter you like and then email them. Most of the main stream ones have no problems telling you how they did it and the way they went about it down to a T. Now look into getting quality brushes first and foremost, and how to properly handle and maintain them. Once you have a grasp from that artist look at another and even if it's hey how did you do your skin tone, or how did you do that metal. No one wins a demon in their first ever year of painting, as it takes time. Most of the guys who are rocking it spend 100+ hours on the models trying for that perfect blend. I am working on a Mike Mcvey model right now and have spent 10 hours just on the coat and I still don't think it's anywhere near done. Get the color wheel like people said and start studying art at school. You obviously want to be a better painter and that isawsome, but that will take time and work. If you are still into the idea of it a few more years down the road of learning how to paint then you are really ready to try for demon. It is no big thing to enter demon heck I had two friends throw models in because they thought the same thing and they are in their 30's. I told them that was stupid because all you need to do to enter demon is buy a ticket to games day, walk up and fill out the little two line registration for the model. My 7 year old cousin can do that. People spend tons of hours and don't even make the first cut.

You want the paint to go on smooth. Start by learning basic layering. Get the foundation set and paint a model with it. Do several thinned down(water to thin the paint) layers for the base. Once it is on strong and their aren't brush strokes and the model is smooth then try using a mix of 50/50 with the next highlight. Start Halfway down the surface area you are painting as this is the paint getting lighter. Then do the third highlight except at the edge on the 50/50. Once you can get that down then move on to learn other things inpainting. Learning proper brush stroke will help you start more then learning anything else. Also for the love of god don't use the GW brushes as they suck. For now use the reaper kolinskys as for your level they are solid.

GL and hope to see what you produce.

Skinnattittar wrote:A year or two ago a friend of mine entered into the GD competition in Maryland. She is an excellent painter, perhaps the best I have ever seen. She paints models as a living (well, part-full time now in this economy) and receives commissions from all over the world. Her models have been featured in a few magazines (I am told) and even a few box covers.

When she entered, she didn't even make it to the "Runners Up," despite entering a model into every category of Fantasy. I think she won an honorable mention or something. Now, this would not have been such a let down, except that (a) she was hoping to win to help with her business (people will pay extra for GD winning painters, and it also attracts more business to boot) and (b) those that won had inferior paint jobs. Her's extensively features free hand detailing, 3D effects, light effects (glowing weapons casting light on the models, viewable from most all angles, and extremely realistic), dynamic effects (if you turned some of the entries, they appeared to be moving!), and just general badassery.

The models that beat her's actually had mold lines still visible! Lacked any real intrigue in posing, free hand, shading, etc... Featured no interesting dynamics or effects, just very run of the mill, excellent, paint jobs. Would look good as box art, but if you paid more than just the going price for a decent paint job, you would be getting had.

The rumored reason she didn't win? Well, for one, being female, two, it was pretty obvious the judges were good friends with the other applicants (greeting each other by first name, conversing about their goings on [kids, family, whatever]), and that the judges just seemed to have already chosen who was going to win the competition.

Over the past many years I have been playing 40k, I have seen an notable increase in corruption streaming through the hobby. I am told this is nothing new. I had always sort of hoped that war gaming would be above such weaknesses as petty favoritism, but obviously it isn't.

So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

HAHAHA! The exact same thing happened to me in Chicago 2009. I showed up behind that little sh*t Dylan Gauker and they judges were so busy felating him that I had to wait about 10 minutes to hand in my entries. I made 1st cut in every category I entered, (7) and walked away empty handed. At least I vindicated myself this year at Baltimore... but still, the same old faces kept winning for the same old models.

Look people are going to always hate the demon judging. So many people think that they are the bomb when in the end they may not actually be. I saw some great looking models through the glass, but when I got a little closer look as in actually looking I noticed tons of faults. In the end a Demon is a Demon gold silver bronze whatever. We are not always going to like what the judges choose but in the end they are the judges and all you can do is try harder. USA differs from Europe in what they like remember that.

eledamris wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:A year or two ago a friend of mine entered into the GD competition in Maryland. She is an excellent painter, perhaps the best I have ever seen. She paints models as a living (well, part-full time now in this economy) and receives commissions from all over the world. Her models have been featured in a few magazines (I am told) and even a few box covers.

When she entered, she didn't even make it to the "Runners Up," despite entering a model into every category of Fantasy. I think she won an honorable mention or something. Now, this would not have been such a let down, except that (a) she was hoping to win to help with her business (people will pay extra for GD winning painters, and it also attracts more business to boot) and (b) those that won had inferior paint jobs. Her's extensively features free hand detailing, 3D effects, light effects (glowing weapons casting light on the models, viewable from most all angles, and extremely realistic), dynamic effects (if you turned some of the entries, they appeared to be moving!), and just general badassery.

The models that beat her's actually had mold lines still visible! Lacked any real intrigue in posing, free hand, shading, etc... Featured no interesting dynamics or effects, just very run of the mill, excellent, paint jobs. Would look good as box art, but if you paid more than just the going price for a decent paint job, you would be getting had.

The rumored reason she didn't win? Well, for one, being female, two, it was pretty obvious the judges were good friends with the other applicants (greeting each other by first name, conversing about their goings on [kids, family, whatever]), and that the judges just seemed to have already chosen who was going to win the competition.

Over the past many years I have been playing 40k, I have seen an notable increase in corruption streaming through the hobby. I am told this is nothing new. I had always sort of hoped that war gaming would be above such weaknesses as petty favoritism, but obviously it isn't.

So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

HAHAHA! The exact same thing happened to me in Chicago 2009. I showed up behind that little sh*t Dylan Gauker and they judges were so busy felating him that I had to wait about 10 minutes to hand in my entries. I made 1st cut in every category I entered, (7) and walked away empty handed. At least I vindicated myself this year at Baltimore... but still, the same old faces kept winning for the same old models.

Hahaha you know you love him. He goes to my game store, Tower Games; they keep his Slayer Sword in the basement display case.

TBH: i wouldnt even enter it.
You would achieve nothing except end up broken hearted by it.

My advice: You need to start hammering out advanced painting styles rather than basics.
If you want to go somewhere, you will need to drop the drybrushing.
Both that and cell shading are too basic and show nothing to any extent.

Main things you want to work on: NMM, lighting, wet-blending.
Those 3 alone will get you moving well, but dont expect to get it right on the 1st try.
All 3 take tons of practice to pull off at a good standard, and even more to make them look worth the effort.

Train yourself up in each style, to do that, buy 3 models that offer plenty of practice.


1 - Giants or ogres are great for wet blending, simply for the skin tone changes.
Simply grab one of them and practice, once you have the basics, try adding in more tone changes (bruised areas etc)
That will also help you grasp wet-blending to a higher level.
I would suggest power weps for this, but they dont help too much since they are pretty damn small.
also, the

2 - Buy the sigvald model from the WoC line, or sanguinary guard models.
While only basic, use them to practice NMM painting on everything you can.
Use the wet-blending from the previous to help you with this.

3 - plasma weapons, lightning claws, anything that would generate alot of light will work.
This will again be wet blending in areas, but it needs to be used to show the radial effect and make areas seem as if they were being lit by the source.



While these may help, dont expect it to come overnight.
You will be spending painstaking hours on each for ages before you even get close.

Once you get them to an acceptable standard, do a trial run on a model to show them.
Keep in mind you want a model to show off with, so pick one that will help you compliment it with the chosen scheme.
That daemon prince is a great mini, but lacks any real chance to go all out on techniques due to too many basic surface areas.


all in all: I would aim for next year for now.
Spend the time working on techniques.
Dakka has some great tutorials, as does the GW site.
For now, try a few of those out and see how you get on.

Ok, I know I've been a little to ignored but I'm only 14, what do you expect?
Now just to get something straight, I know I'm not getting get past the 1st round but I've been telling myself for a few years that I'm going to enter and my whole family wanted me to, my dad even bought me the figure (limited edition and free entry thats $25 and my dad doesn't buy things for me)

So sorry but I'm entering, even though its a waste of time!

Ok, whats NMM?

With highlighting, is it when you add a lighter colour onto a darker colour, and than the 2nd highlight on to the 1st highlight but also making it blend in????

Ok, you are right, buying giants or orges to practice on but I dislike fantasy and dont want to buy them but you are right and I should practice skin tone!

And I know you have to be harsh to get things through, even though use might be being mean, I am actually learning from this and thanx for that.

I never intended for use to actually tell me how to painted!

This thread is probably annoying you and its annoying you, soon I'm going to buy a figure (40k) and enter maybe next year or the year after but do use have any suggestions on a figure that would be good and good to convert????

And sorry if i repeated things and my English is bad

Spend some time browsing the threads here and you will find the answers to most of your questions. That can be your first step.

Most any painting technique you'd like to research can be found, in depth, with a 3-second-googling. Don't be afraid to use a search engine to look for information, because it really is all out there. Plus a tutorial or video can't deride or mock you so you may enjoy it more...

I heard from some friends that compete that way that you ahve to compete locally then regionally in Australia, and the winners from those get to go to demon as since Australia is so big and would be hard to deal. Granted this may have been the case... not sure if it still is.

I do not get that!

Ok, I know I've been a little to ignored but I'm only 14, what do you expect?

It has nothing to do with your age or skill , its everything to do with your attitude. You keep asking for advise and pretty much ignored most of the suggestion so far.
Enthusiasm can only go so far till people realize you arnt taking in anything they are telling you.

Now just to get something straight, I know I'm not getting get past the 1st round but I've been telling myself for a few years that I'm going to enter and my whole family wanted me to, my dad even bought me the figure (limited edition and free entry thats $25 and my dad doesn't buy things for me)

Enthusiasm and to have a dream is nice. And even better your father is very supportive.

So sorry but I'm entering, even though its a waste of time!

Nothing is ever a waste of time if you learn from it.

Ok, whats NMM?

Search throughout dakka...

With highlighting, is it when you add a lighter colour onto a darker colour, and than the 2nd highlight on to the 1st highlight but also making it blend in????

More or less yes , the amount of high lights used varies of course

And I know you have to be harsh to get things through, even though use might be being mean, I am actually learning from this and thanx for that.

No ones harsh in here atm.

This thread is probably annoying you and its annoying you, soon I'm going to buy a figure (40k) and enter maybe next year or the year after but do use have any suggestions on a figure that would be good and good to convert????

And sorry if i repeated things and my English is bad

Not really annoying no , anything to help another person improve and realize their dream is nice to have.
There are no "good" figure as everyone has different tastes , but i can make a few suggestions.

1) Every new released model has its fresh enthusiasm to the eyes. So its not " oh yay another xxxx again , that we have seen for the 20th time"
So using new kits keep things fresh ( this is important when kit bashing , not so much if you are planning on scratch build / sculpt )

2) Consider the materials , most of us are dead afraid of metal because we dont have the tools to... Plastic are abit easier for us to cut and glue etc etc.

3) Most modelers seem to enjoy how elaborate something is made. Extra wires , tubes , exposed mechanical parts , anything to help bring the
"realism" to your model will be catchy to the eyes.

So make it look real in a way and yeah?

Feforfar wrote:So make it look real in a way and yeah?

what's a challenging figure that's a challenge for all painters including you?

Feforfar wrote:what's a challenging figure that's a challenge for all painters including you?

Everything is a challenge for me because im not good.

But i guess... models similar to this...
Where its a pain to not assemble it prior to painting , yet if assembled its hard to have the spray reach inside not to mention paint brush.

Everything is a challenge for me because im not good

What is this clad and is it a challenge to paint?

Thats Galrauch the Chaos Dragon ,

I dont think its hard to paint but i bet its hard to assemble.
I would probably cough blood by the time im done....

Why would you cough blood?

And I'm going to get that figure and enter it in a few years!

lol super glue fumes, but id say that it would be as hard as how much detail you want to put into it, i think you shoukld just chill for a little bit and actualy get past the young blood ideal and research how long the young blood contestans have actualy been painting ect, i think you realy need to understand how much of there short lives they have put into painting and modeling, and baisicly compare the time you have been to gauge some depth of there skills ect

How do you research it?

www.google.com

A forum is not your private research team. Sorry to be harsh but rather than asking Dakka you should just type the phrase or topic you want to learn about into google and read the first page or two worth of results, rather than expecting people to take the time out to type up an answer that you could have found in 0.003 seconds flat using a free search engine...

But than what do I type in?

And are use saying that I should just like look how long they've been painting for and etc?

1 - Use google to find out some names
2 - google those names
3 - click on the webpages that many of them will have made for themselves
4 - profit!

esentialy yes, just look ion to what it actualy takes to pain at thoes levels, and use that info the see where your at with painting ect, people that have a miniscule shot at actualy placing have spent years upon years painting and honing there skills, but in sayin that dont throw in the towle, it just takes time to learn

ktulhut: i coudnt have used dot point better lol

You're obviously very excited about the whole thing, and probably feeling rather fiery and defiant with all the criticism you've been getting, but here's my advice:

Stop thinking about indivdual models or contests.

Step away from the computer.

Go outside, maybe for a walk or just sit somewhere nice.

Clear your head, and calm yourself.

Think about exactly what it is you want to learn, and write that down as simply as you can. For example, you might want to learn about Wet Blending, or how long the average GD painter has been painting models before they win anything.

Think about that list. Slowly. What is the easiest question to ask that will get you the information you want.

Think about those questions. If you were Google, would you understand them?

Go back to your computer.

Ask Google those questions.

Read what it gives you. Not just the first result, or even the first page of results. All of it. Read, read read.

Learn from what you've read.

So write a few questions down and than go on google an type them in an read, read and read the answers i get?

i give up

Me too. Have fun at Golden Daemon, kid.

Actually you don't need to look for a model that is hard to paint, you can pick any model and make it hard.

You just make sure that it is a model that you want to paint, and then you just have to train, build up your skills and try until you make it.

And for the record, NMM, stands for Non Metallic Metal, and it the technique used to pain Metals without using metal colors.

//Edge

This is the strangest thread I've read on Dakka in months.

OP - look at what other people do that you like, copy it, steal it, bite it, take it, try it, emulate it as best as you can. Everyone that ever won an award for anything spent a long time doing it badly before they did it well. There's no way you can read about how to do this stuff and these simple questions are nuts: you have to sit down with the brushes and paints and just keep practicing.

And to hell with Golden Demon, paint for yourself, paint to make yourself proud and to your level of satisfaction.

How do you end threads?

PM a mod and ask them to lock it for you, I guess? I've never wanted one of my threads closed before...

Just ignore it and it goes away. The Internet's grand like that. Or ask a mod to do it.

Ok

I actually think it looks pretty good. Is that quick shade or a wash or something? It's not GD standard but still it looks like a pretty effective method of quickly painting a model.

Oh, for sure. Without the strange purple paint on its arm and some better details on the face, it'd be great for gaming. But that's not what the OP wanted it to be...

I posted a bucket load of links for you from cmon, you can go there to find more... take the time to read those links and follow the steps...... feel free to ask me for help, i'm only 16 but i'm not a half bad painter, and a manic kit basher so i do know some stuff.

Skinnattittar wrote:
So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

One of my favorite pieces of advice on Dakka...now how do I get it into conversation with my wife?

This thread is win! I've never known someone on the internet having to be taught how to use Google.

L. Wrex

Hey, there is a series of dvd's that you might be interested in to help you with your painting. They cover all levels of skill and might work out well for you.

Good look at the Golden Daemon, and keep aiming high.

Well, going against everything said, I'd say with a lot of practice, you'd make it somewhere in GD. Youngbloods 2009

http://demonwinner.free.fr/australia/2009/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=12

I think it would be safe to say I could paint at that level.

I'd say with a lot of practice, you'd make it somewhere in GD.

Thanx, I think half the people here should, there work is so amazing!

usually the people that enter minis to GD start almost a year before the contest.

planning,paint scetches,talk about it with others on the internets(or friends).

this is where you should start.

remove all the mould lines and paint the mini before assembling(makes it much easier and if you ruin something you can easily swap it without taking apart the mini)

and here you can see most of the gd minis:

http://demonwinner.free.fr/

Well I normally assemble the whole or half the min so than i can play with it!

You dont need to play something thats being painted for a competition

Also, quick bit of advice here but i believe youngbloods has a base size limit on models.
I think its 20mm-25mm (round or square)

The daemon base is a 60mm.


Anyway, this guide is now your bible.
Found it not too long ago, and since then its been on my screen all the time.
It will help from everything from basics to highly advanced tips and tricks.

Just have a read of it and try some of it out.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/umpg/CMON%20Ultimate%20Miniature%20Painting%20Guide%20Demo.pdf

Ktulhut wrote:1 - Use google to find out some names
2 - google those names
3 - click on the webpages that many of them will have made for themselves
4 - ????
5 - profit!

Fixed it for ya. You need to include the ?'s whenever you make a list.

Ed_Bodger wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:
So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

One of my favorite pieces of advice on Dakka...now how do I get it into conversation with my wife?

That one's easy... get yourself some kneepads and get to practicing on some mango slices....



That being said, here's one for the OP-

You seem to be young, and filled with all kinds of pee and vinegar, and that's all well and good, but you have to channel it. I realize that our generations have been brought up in an age of instant gratification, but this isn't something that people get good at overnight. It takes time, effort, and a keen willingness to do your homework and just start compiling information from as many sources as you possibly can. It almost takes looking at the world through a different set of eyes. Before you even begin your gourney, go out, walk around, and look at things. look at the way shadows play with color on houses, cars, anything, really. Look at the colors and textures of the world around you, and then start researching painting techniques. Practice them until you have a grasp of how they work, what each of them gives you as an end result, how you can get these simple techniques to interact with eachother, and then go out and look at the world around you again. Instead of just observing this time, speculate. Figure out how you would recreate it in your own style, through your own eyes.

Once you've done this, do it again, and again, and again. Experiment and explore the technical aspects of what you want to achieve, and always be your own worst critic. Once you've done this, built this base of knowledge and skill for yourself, then you speculate, you develop, you put all the hundreds of hours you've spent researching, the thousands of hours you've spent with a brush in your hand and paint on your fingers, and you distill it, you concentrate down the labor of love that you've made a major part of your life into a single model, and you spend more time on that model than you had on any piece prior to this culminating work, making sure that every piece of it, every last brushstroke is leading you ever closer to your own vision of what that model should be.

Then, you will be ready. You may not win, but you'll have come a long way from where you are now.

Then again, I don't paint too exceedingly well, but my artistic passion lies with the cullinary arts... nevertheless, the approach is the same, we just use different tools, and I can eat my work when I'm done with it.

Look OP, a lot has been repeated countless times in this thread and you keep asking the same questions. Stop reading and open your ears. No more advice because everything you need to learn has been shown to you on how to learn it. Read through your thread again several times. Jot down notes and go from their. If you have to ask how to use google then go to your local gaming store and ask advice from the best paiunter there. Beyond that gl because I think you will need it.

Accidental troll? Well I guess there is a first for everything....

OP is quite the genius.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:You dont need to play something thats being painted for a competition

I play with the models I won Golden Demon with

eledamris wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:You dont need to play something thats being painted for a competition

I play with the models I won Golden Demon with

Showoff.

A lot of negativity here. If the kid wants to go to GD then I say go for it. Sure, you wont win but part of the fun is giving it a go. Plus, while there you can compare your work with others and ask questions.

For a detailed look into what it takes to WIN a GD, go here.... http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=105449

Remember, some GD entries work on their mini's for MONTHS. Sometimes a whole year.

Read the thread I posted. Or skim through it.

That was one successful troll.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:This thread is win! I've never known someone on the internet having to be taught how to use Google.

L. Wrex

You mean like this?

Dronze wrote:

Ed_Bodger wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:
So, if you want to win a Golden Demon, you'd better buy a good set of knee pads and start practicing with bananas.

One of my favorite pieces of advice on Dakka...now how do I get it into conversation with my wife?

That one's easy... get yourself some kneepads and get to practicing on some mango slices....

Best reply ever.

That one's easy... get yourself some kneepads and get to practicing on some mango slices....

Who doesn't like delicious mango?

What's bothered me this whole time is that you can just mouse over "NMM" and dakka will tell you right there and then what it is. And Skinnatittar, who's this friend of yours? I really want to see that miniature, as I've never seen that level of skill on a mini before (almost looks like it's moving!?).

Well I just made it to round 2!!!!!!

I'm sure

I want the 10 minutes of my life that it took to read all this back!

why did this thread get a necro?

EDIT; Oh....I'm sure. Pics or it didn't happen

Woah! saw your skulltaker! Nice!

There is a painting forum that has some good techniques and tips. Instead of asking us how, do some research.

Like all art forms, the opinion of how a model looks is a matter of taste. I've seen master level painted stuff that I really didn't think looked all that good, and some pro level stuff that I thought looked better. Honestly, I think your model needs alot of work. I'm no expert myself, but like everyone else I don't have to be an expert painter to notice an excellently painted model. It's like that Ross guy on the public access channels...that man could paint! And any amateur could watch and learn techniques...then practice those techniques themselves. Research research research then practice practice practice and THEN spend hours on a model you'll be ready for a contest. Good luck.

Sooooo i just read through all of this, and looked at some of his ther topics. Either he's the single best troll I have ever seen, or completely clueless... Honestly both would be funny.


As for the original question at hand, I'll agree with everyone else. Go ahead and enter, expect to not make it very far, and look into painting more and learning how to. There are a lot of resources out there on the internet, look into them. Even just pictures of stuff on google. Or type in exactly what you want in google. For example: "How to paint demon skin?" /examle

Is the certificate proof?

Well it didn't go into Golden Demon but I did enter my Skulltaker and get to the Grand Final!

Feforfar wrote:Well it didn't go into Golden Demon but I did enter my Skulltaker and get to the Grand Final!

...wat?

What....o.o, pics please....i'm thinking he bought the skulltaker then entered it

Ok I'll bite...

For those wondering, the skulltaker paintjob is very similar to the one GW posted in a WD when they released the model, and the how-to guide is still on the GW website somewhere. Easy to follow and get good results without much effort.

To the OP:
First off, congrats for having a family that's so supportive. I assure you, they'll be a huge help and support for you in the future.

Next, let's go over a couple things that you've been asking for...

NMM: Non-metal metal. Essentially painting areas of the model to look as though they have a metallic sheen without using any metallic paint. An advanced technique that is both applauded and disliked by many, simply because of the tendency for it to look like a cartoon.

Blending: building up layers of paint to give depth and highlights to a figure's areas. Without this your figures will look flat and boring. A basic technique.

Drybrushing: one of the first techniques any painter will learn. It's literally taking only a small bit of paint on a brush and wiping it to the point that there's nearly no paint in the bristles, and then running the brush in quick successive passes to give a very basic highlight. It also leaves a distinctive pattern that isn't smooth, but for table-top quality it's an effective technique.

If you are serious about entering a GD, you need to practice your technique. You also need to know about composition: which involves not only the model's placement on it's base, but the color choice so that it compliments the entire miniature and has a distinctive focal point. Even massive areas of free-hand techniques have actually been a detriment to GD entries rather than a boon, simply because they became too complex.

If you do enter, see if you can find a judge after the competition is over. I did this myself when I entered myself, and got excellent comments to improve for the next time... sadly that never happened because of a lack of Games Days in the west coast.

Search for the terms I gave you here on Dakka or on Google.com. It will lend you results very quickly, as there are a multitude of good and excellent guides. What has been frustrating people here is them giving you an answer and you immediately question what the answer is, with what seems to be little to no time given to research what has been offered. If you're unsure how to use Google or another search engine, ask your father for some assistance.

Lastly, if there is a GW store near you, go there, the employees have at least basic knowledge of painting techniques, and in some cases are quite decent painters themselves (rare, but it happens). They will usually want to help those new to the hobby, and if possible try to join the academy, which will give you further instruction. Good luck to you and I hope you keep your enthusiasm.

OK, thx

*cough* This Topics Going Quiter then the Micheal Jackson Comdey Road Show

I dont get that!

Feforfar wrote:I dont get that!

Lol.

lol

Not reading the whole thread (yet) because it looks like it degenerated into a flame fest at one point.


In order to even think about GD for that model you will need to strip the paint off and start over taking alot more time and care. If you want to pose the fingers around a sword then you will need to remove parts of a model and then construct (at a bare minimum) the fingers around the hilt of said sword.

Hope this helps!


Now I'm gonna go read the whole thread.










Heh, well that was interesting. I'm really not buying that the OP isn't trolling, and I'm really amazed by the level of venom in some of the post by forum vets.

Just my .02...I've considered the whole thing highly amusing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Feforfar wrote:So write a few questions down and than go on google an type them in an read, read and read the answers i get?

There is absolutely no way this is for real. I would like to officially raise the bs flag on this thread. Is that ok or do I need to send a PM to someone to form a committee to take a vote?


There is no way a person that is able to find and register for this forum can be unable to grasp the basic concept of google.

I really dont get you!

This thread is awesome. Feforfar, you are a great troll.

...*golf claps*