The MechaniCon 2010
Putting the GRAND back into Grand Tournament
http://www.themechanicon.com/

November 5–7, 2010

Holiday Inn West Chester
http://www.hiwestchester.com/
West Chester, Pennsylvania, USA
Discount rate info: http://www.themechanicon.com/1/category/hotel-information/

A three-day gaming convention brought to you by

The Gaming Garage, L.L.C.
gaminggarage AT gmail DOT com

· Featuring a two-day, 70-player Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament, an official Games Workshop Independent Tournament Circuit event


Other great events and features include:

· Warmachine/Hordes Steamroller Tournaments
· 40K Veteran Tournament
· Blood Bowl Tournament
· Battlefleet Gothic Tournament
· Zombies!
· Munchkin Tournament
· Open gaming and Registered events
· Iron Ogre Painting Competition
· Bits Trading (info coming soon)
· Charity Auction (info coming soon)
· Great prizes, cool swag and t-shirts
· Concession stand and wet bar in main convention hall
· Vendors area - featuring The WarStore

Limited space is still available for clubs to run events and for retailers in the dealer room. Also welcome are volunteers to help with convention staffing. If you’d like to be a part of one of the premiere events in the Northeast, contact us today!

Other convention details:

* Located in West Chester, PA, about 30 minutes from the Philadelphia Airport and 30 minutes from Wilmington, DE
* Easy access to major roads and highways
* Shuttle service available from the airport



Automatically Appended Next Post:
MechaniCon News - September 5, 2010

There are only two months to go until MechaniCon 2010! We have tons of exciting things in store for this year's convention so come back every week for the latest and hottest news.

This week we have two great features to tell you about.

The WarStore sponsorship and vending

We are pleased to announce that The WarStore will not only be a sponsor — supplying prizes for events and bits bags for registration packs — they will also be the main vendor at MechaniCon!

The WarStore booth will be loaded with tons of gaming goodness, including Battlefront, Games Workshop and Privateer Press miniatures.
http://www.themechanicon.com/1/the-warstore-sponsorship-and-vending-news/2010/08/


Iron Ogre Painting Competition

You can’t have a top-quality convention without a painting competition, so this year we’ve added the Iron Ogre Painting Competition.

All registered attendees may compete in the competition. We even have a late entry time on Saturday if you’re playing in the Grand Tournament and want to enter models from your.

Categories for the competition:
Category 1: Warhammer 40,000 Single Miniature
Category 2: Warhammer 40,000 Squad
Category 3: Warhammer 40,000 Vehicle
Category 4: Single Miniature Open – Any genre and manufacturer
Category 5: Single Large Miniature Open – Any genre and manufacturer
Category 6: Wide Open Competition – Any genre and manufacturer
Categories 7–12: Staff Competitions

You can download the complete rules pack here.
http://www.themechanicon.com/1/iron-ogre-painting-competition/2010/08/

EDIT: my concerns about cost have been well addressed!

Just to hop in on this, this is something that I've also chatted with frgs about and as far as I gather, is our main reservation, along with about 4-5 guys in my gaming group.

It's not that I can't afford $125 dollars, its purely that I don't know exactly why I'm paying that much, when from an outward view, and I'm NOT saying this is fact, this is just what I've felt I've gathered from talking with people in the community, those who went last year, etc:

There aren't a ton of prizes (like nothing of the constant box giveaway style nova sprung on us during the event)
The cost of other indy GT's for instance conflict and nova, was well under 100 dollars (more in the 50 range)

So if the prize pool is indeed smaller (from what I've gathered, not fact), and the cost is 2.5 times as much..?

If the Mechanicon guys wouldn't mind answering (although I know you're busy) it would definitely help make my mind and that of others up if I just knew where the money was going, why it was costing so much, etc. For a games day sort of event I see when my ticket costs a large amount, because theres make-and-take events, seminars, etc., but if I'm going to Mechanicon for the tournament..why is my tournament ticket 125 dollars?

Thanks, Target

MechaniCon has a lot of similarities with the older GW GT's. We are aiming for providing the BEST GT experience out there, not the cheapest. At the same time this is a hobby event, not a money making business and we only aim to break even. The core crew organizing this have been veterans of the GT circuit since the beginning (1997) and we have put our efforts into providing a real Grand Tournament level event. There are tons of events out there that use the GT label, we are trying hard to live up to a proper example of a Grand event.

Here is some information about running an event like this, including individual items for an honest comparison to other events.

Event Coverage-

This is a labor of love and does not really cost us anything. Check out last year's media gallery to get an idea of the tables/terrain/prizes/after event coverage:
http://www.themechanicon.com/afmg/2009/


Club Participation

Everyone in our club participates in making the event happen. There are no local players getting a leg up with insider info or favoritism. We are doing this because this is the kind of event we believe needs to continue. Everyone in the club has donated all they can to help make this happen.


Tables and terrain-

The tables were built for tournament play. Each table top playing surface is 4' x 6' with a 2' sideboard for display boards/casualties. Each table top is uniform throughout the entire event - there isn't a mix of sheets of plywood and/or felt mats. The table tops are built in my shop and we have built 120 tables for another gaming manufacturer to use for their national tournaments.

In addition to the tables being set up well for playing on, there is plenty of proper space between the tables for gamers with army displays to move around safely.

All the terrain was also built specifically for tournament play. All the terrain is mounted on hardboard bases and is built strong. Most areas of each terrain piece have flat areas so you can actually have your model stand where you want it to. Hills have flat tops, ruins have flat areas, things like that were considered when building each piece. All the terrain is also consistent throughout the event - you won't find you got a bad draw, stuck on the table with huge chunks of foam because there wasn't enough scenery.


Venue-

The location is a hotel and conference center, so you can go from your room to the gaming area without leaving the building.

The room rental for three days is the most expensive line item in the budget. Yes, 3 days! We have to pay for Friday to be set up and ready for first thing Saturday morning. In addition to the room rental, there are additional table rentals so that each playing surface is properly supported and has a shelf area for dice/causalities/etc.

The venue is close to my workshop where the tables, scenery and all other supplies are located so there are minimal transportation costs here.

The hotel discount rate is $92 which is much cheaper than similar events. If you take a look at any of the original GW GT's or even most of the current independent ones out there at hotels, the combined hotel room and GT ticket is very close to the same price.

The main ballroom that the GT is in has an inexpensive concession stand with things like $1 pizza slices or hot dogs. The ballroom also has a bar and will be staffed by a bartender.


Trophies and handouts-

We have professionally made, custom trophies and offer more than pretty much any event out there.

We also have custom gaming accessories made as well as special promotional items done.

Each attendee receives a swag bag at registration which includes some of the generous donations from our sponsors. Last year we had tons of generous support and each bag contained about $30 worth of loot and discount coupons on top of that.


Prizes-

Last year we probably had more prizes per attendee than any other event - period. Not sure where anyone heard that the prizes were not that good but they were misled.

Last year, EVERY player in the event walked out with a $20 prize, there were at least 12 battalion-box-sized prizes, and there were huge stacks for the category winners. We did not hold back prizes due to not selling out and again - I doubt any event had more prizes per person last year.

This year we already have many fantastic sponsors confirmed and you can always check the website to see who the latest sponsors are. Prizes, trophies, and giveaways are definitely not areas where we are lacking.


General expenses-

Insurance, website, office expenses.
Supplies for building/repairing tables and scenery.
Storing 40 tables / 300 pieces of terrain.
Fliers, postage, and promotion expenses.
Printing for all the player name badges, tournament packs, missions, registration forms, result sheets, etc..


Other things to do-

Get computers/printers/software lined up for registration and tournament results
Line up photographer
Repairs to tables and scenery
Write tournament packs/event documents
Build and maintain website
Get artwork done
Revise artwork as needed
Establish relationships with sponsors
Collect items from sponsors
Get website listings - tournament pack coverage for sponsors
Get the word out to the gaming community
Respond to player questions
Give up our time to play to work on this again
Set up T-shirt orders
Banking/bills/payments
After event coverage
So much more...



I know that is a lot of information to throw out there, but some folks have asked the same things multiple times going back to last summer. If you are curious about what we offer, we are more than happy to answer your questions.

If you feel that an event like this is not exactly what you want and are not willing to try us out, there are many more out there for you to choose from. If you decide to try us out, then we will see you in just two short months!


Thanks,
Tony

the money thing well... this makes more sense now... I'll buy it It is very expensive I guess to rent space in the area.

Onto the rest of my concerns...

As far as paint scores go, can you post pictures of some sample armies and painting scores? This would make it easier to get a feel for paint jobs and expected scores...

I'd like to do well and win, but Honestly I'm not the best painter... And with how hard you guys make it to massacre... I'm afraid this is going to be a pretty pretty dress up event more than a competitive tourney.

I mean your highest battle points scoring is 74/100 and he didn't win... Is the Highest quality general there a "C+" at best? And the guy who won was a "D+" with the battle points but an amazing painter apparently?

In addition the sports really range from 46-50 for the people that matter... and the quiz looks like it is next to impossible to pass since there are sooo many 0's.... so the Sports look like a non issue... except for the quiz

Unlike other GT's, Machanicon will range between 60-70 players (max.) Wargames Con had a little over 200 players, so they were able charge less ($50.00 over three days), considering the Northeast coast location(very expensive) and the number of players I can relate why it would cost $125.00 per player (still a little high), but I can see why.

For a little perspective guys, I personally have spent over a 100 hours looking for a hotel/convention space in the Philadelphia area that was cheaper than the space Tony has.

Haven't found one yet. The typical conversation goes like this:

"That will be 8000.00 for those two days, and more on Friday, and you have to rent tables from us."

Me:...gasp...uh, ok, I think I can maybe make this work...

"And how would you like that catered?"

Me: catered? Naw, thanks, but we won't need that catered at all, although our hungry gamers will all be eating at your resturant and bar all weekend.

"No catering? I'm sorry, that will be 16,000.00 for the weekend"

Stupidly insane! But they are getting that from weddings and corporate events, and are sold out.

Tony started with certain criteria: 1) Hotel so you can just walk down to your games, 2) Bar and decent food, at decent prices 3) Not a dump. A nice hotel. 4) Good scenery, 8 foot tables.

Those things cost money, and the TO puts out the money up front, then gets a bit back each time someone registers. Profit from an event like this is negligible, and hopefully you don't lose money.

Let's think about that. Raise your hand if you'd like to put in HUNDREDS of hours of work, and then possibly take money out of your ownpocket if the event loses money. Not many takers on that deal. A little easier with GW's support for tournaments this last year, and people like Battlefoam and GF9 and other nice folks throwing out support. But still tough as hell to suceed, break even, and keep going for the next year.

In the event it pays off, and you actually make a few hundred dollars, where does it go? Probably into the next years GT, so you can make it better. Better that way, because dividing a small bit of profit into hundreds of hours of work is depressing when you figure out you would be better off babysitting or mowing lawns for a weekend.)

Sarcasm is really not necessary. -The Mgmt.

No seriously, It sounds like a great event. I have a Q about the Blood Bowl tourney, is it an all day or half-day event on Saturday do you think? (I saw 3 rounds) I have a possible commitment Sunday so I was looking into the Friday night and Saturday day events to see what I could get out of the weekend if I couldn't do the big tourney.

PMed you regarding the BB event.

Theirs a ton of added costs to tournies that people don't quite understand. Just say all of the terrain is covered well then their are tables to be rented, the insurance isn't cheap(nor non refundable). Then the advertising, the down payments to the location for the event itself. Trophies aren't free and often though your sponsors do cover a lot of prizes you still end up buying more. Then just basic costs, more often you end up paying close to $150.00 a person when you factor it all in because you seldom can ever fill all of the positions so more often then not organizers lose money. On the Boston Brawl I lost out around $1200.00 from my own wallet.

I understand why the price is so high now but the $125 just really stands out when other people are charging $50-60 for their events. People really think twice looking that price.

If one area is too expensive you have it else where. I attended Japanese Animation Conventions for their costume and video contests when conventions were fan run before they had the corporate backed Big Apple Anime Fest / NY Comicon. A running question was why is there no event in New York City because many fans don't have cars. The reason was it was just too expensive to run an event in NYC and still make it price competitive with other events. Big Apple Anime Fest/NY Comicon has all these corporate backers that they can afford to do it.

Please posting paint scoring sheets with pictures and scoring comparisons like Frgsinwntr mentioned and missions so people know exactly what they are getting into would be really nice.

If the local hotels are that set on financially raping you, would you consider an alternative city? It might be worth your time to talk to MVBrandt; he got block rates on the hotel, and the tournament was in the convention center next door - which had costs, but likely not nearly on the scale of the hotel issues / hosting / catering.

Seems like you guys have a concentration of events up that way, which is mostly Mike Clark's fault. We need some love further south!

*EDIT* Or Mike just needs to move to Florida?

There's a hundred ways we could cut corners and costs, but note that our mission statement is to deliver the highest quality event we can and do things right.

What Tony wants to deliver is a modernized version of GW's old hotel-based GTs (although obviously with side events for other systems). While the GW hotel GTs had their flaws -- as all events do -- a lot of us old-timers still remember them as some of the better gaming experiences we've had. And we really would like to give today's gamers a similar kind of experience and hopefully raise the bar a little (or a lot).

Honestly, general questions about what people are getting for their money are welcome, because it's not easy to explain how all the little things (and big things) matter if you're never experienced it. IMO we have a whole generation of gamers that have been weaned on "grand" tournaments that we would have called RTTs back in the day (and note that there's not one thing wrong with a good RTT, it's just not a GT). Maybe we should call ours a UGT (Ultra Grand Tournament) or something to drive that distinction home, I dunno.

But ultimately, if we're known as a higher-priced event that delivers a higher quality experience in terms of setting, professionalism, prize support, goodies, table quality, etc...we're okay with that being our niche.

We have a lot more stuff to share about our event, so stay tuned.



Regarding painting, you can reference last year's rules pack for the basic rubric -- with the caveat that I (the head painting judge) have made tweaks for 2010, which you'll see very soon. I've simplified some things for this season, and that should make it easier than ever to get a decent idea of how your army will score. We fully understand that people want clarity.

Generally speaking, with the changes I expect average painting scores to bump up a couple points, with max scores remaining hard to obtain (no one maxed painting last year, and IIRC only one army -- which was beautiful, don't get me wrong -- even came close). Painting counts at our event, but I don't want to hand out a bunch of max or near max scores and create giant disparities. Believe me, we are trying to strike a good balance.

Wish I could come, but with the amount I've traveled this year (including a move), trucking up to Pennsylvania from Florida seems to be a little overboard. If you were hosting it locally, I'd shell out $125 to attend. Given that a lot of what you're anticipating in terms of quality has just been done by the Nova Open, I'll be looking forward to reading about how your event goes, and what differentiates your offerings - seems like the bar has been set for expectations and hyping up a "real GT" or a "Ultra GT" must mean super awesomeness on a scale I can't imagine - I only started gaming with 5th edition, and I don't know about any of the old school stuff. :(

Well the Nova Open was the best GT I been to despite feeling sick that day. It was well run and I had fun. Terrain was pretty awesome especially that Eldar board. I met many people some of them from dakka which was cool. The swag bag was a nice bonus.

With the bar being set that high at the $50 entrance fee I dunno about forking out more then double $125. For $125 it better be more then twice as awesome.

Might give it a try if my friends do but I am seeing them post here and still be on the fence.

Kirika wrote:Well the Nova Open was the best GT I been to despite feeling sick that day. It was well run and I had fun. Terrain was pretty awesome especially that Eldar board. I met many people some of them from dakka which was cool. The swag bag was a nice bonus.

With the bar being set that high at the $50 entrance fee I dunno about forking out more then double $125. For $125 it better be more then twice as awesome.

Might give it a try if my friends do but I am seeing them post here and still be on the fence.

Try going to adepticon.. if you do it right that will be the experience of a lifetime for you and you will spend a TON more then $50.00. As it is Tony puts on a damn good show so the money is well worth it.

Empchild wrote:

Kirika wrote:Well the Nova Open was the best GT I been to despite feeling sick that day. It was well run and I had fun. Terrain was pretty awesome especially that Eldar board. I met many people some of them from dakka which was cool. The swag bag was a nice bonus.

With the bar being set that high at the $50 entrance fee I dunno about forking out more then double $125. For $125 it better be more then twice as awesome.

Might give it a try if my friends do but I am seeing them post here and still be on the fence.

Try going to adepticon.. if you do it right that will be the experience of a lifetime for you and you will spend a TON more then $50.00. As it is Tony puts on a damn good show so the money is well worth it.

I haven't been to Adepticon, but I looked at their prices last year - while I'd agree that if you participate in multiple events / tournaments you'd spend more than $50, that isn't the case here is it? Timing is the real issue; the Mechanicon is coming on the heels of the Nova Open, which was held in a D.C. with open-gaming in the hotel Friday and Sunday, podcasted, televised, organized, catered, etc with a convention center tournament with an on-site bar, all the perks - every participant got back 75% of their entry fee walking in the door with the swag bag prizes, and there was some $5,000 in prize support that got dumped onto people throughout the tournament in raffles, door prizes, a bunch of categories of winners....it was the single best gaming experience I've ever had in every respect, and it cost me $50 up front and travel expenses.

Its hard to *not* compare that experience against every other experience. I bet that people are going to be going to GTs or "large RTTs" for a long time to come and comparing their experience to the Nova Open. I agree with Kirika here - its going to take something miraculous to make ANY event seem worth $125 after the Nova Open did what they did for $50 per head (and a FETH-TON of soliciting sponsors).

So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Phew. I *REALLY* wanted to go to Mechanicon, but then I moved several states south. I remember meeting Tony at the SVDM and talking to him and some other folks about Mechanicon and being excited to go, I hope they have a spectacular tournament. This was my first year attending non-local events, and I suppose you could say that I splurged. Flying to California probably won't happen again; I ended up spending about a thousand dollars more than I thought I was going to. I would have canceled on the Nova Open after moving to Florida because it turned from a 3 hour drive into an 11 hour drive except that the hotel reservations were already made and of the non-refundable kind, and registration was paid. Going to Atlanta was fun the first time when it coincided with family requirements, but I wouldn't want to do it again, that's a *lot* of driving for a circuit.

Worst of all, my wife wants a vacation and doesn't count any of these weekends around the country as vacation. I suspect I'll have a quiet tournament year next year.

Empchild wrote:

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

Eh? The purpose of this post was to get information about the Mechanicon, the reasoning for the cost, etc, and they answered that. If there's one thing I've been enjoying from the Indy GT community in the past few months, starting with NOVA, its the transparency they've been providing in how they do what they do, and the input, questions, and comments they've been listening to. For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down.

I don't think its "harping" on the Mechanicon team, I think it's intended as a discussion, and open discussion regarding big events is a good thing. For way too long its just been "here's what we got. come or don't.". Now the players are getting involved and things are changing to suit their needs more accurately, which will make the scene better for the gaming community as a whole.

Personally I'm still on the fence as to going, but I've gotten the information I need about the cost/etc. after this post, and am now just making my own personal decision based on schedule/availability of funds for wargaming.

targetawg wrote:

Empchild wrote:

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

Eh? The purpose of this post was to get information about the Mechanicon, the reasoning for the cost, etc, and they answered that. If there's one thing I've been enjoying from the Indy GT community in the past few months, starting with NOVA, its the transparency they've been providing in how they do what they do, and the input, questions, and comments they've been listening to. For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down.

I don't think its "harping" on the Mechanicon team, I think it's intended as a discussion, and open discussion regarding big events is a good thing. For way too long its just been "here's what we got. come or don't.". Now the players are getting involved and things are changing to suit their needs more accurately, which will make the scene better for the gaming community as a whole.

Personally I'm still on the fence as to going, but I've gotten the information I need about the cost/etc. after this post, and am now just making my own personal decision based on schedule/availability of funds for wargaming.

http://blog.spikeybits.com/2009/11/aporkalypse-now-mechanicon-09-battle.html
this is the last years winners blog. It has his list and his opponents and also how the games finished... two ties.... two minors... One massacre.... MAJOR points from painting... So yea... painting and appearance seem to play a big role in the final scoring of this event... much more so then the deceptive % that it is advertised as...

So, seeing that there are minor tweaks to the rubric to INCREASE the painting scores overall... I am unsure as to how much appearance will influence the final results... Like I said early... earning a "D" grade in battle points and then winning because of painting hardly makes me think of this as a competitive event... (not saying he's bad! just that the battle points seem OVERLY hard to earn!)

Seeing as my paint jobs are about equal to Nick Nanivati's paint scores and also seeing his paint score from last year on his bugs puts me at a 20pt disadvantage vs some of these other paint jobs... in addition to the Difficulty in which to actually score a massacre after reading and play testing the missions from last year... I Don't know if its worth $125 to come out there...

Note I am not complaining, just pointing out how much of an impact the painting scores influenced the over all. I know it was the intent to have very difficult massacres.. but unless you "club a baby seal" things are going to be tough for guys like me who can't afford to have their army pro painted, or don't have enough time to spend 12 hrs per mini making it look awesome...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Empchild wrote:

mikhaila wrote:So, then you're only going to one tourney a year Dash?)

Totally agree, look obviously you two won't be going hey whatever, but people really loved it last year, and hopefully in the years to come these indy events will get bigger. It's the hope of every organizer to build up an event that will run itself, but as it stands why sit there and harp on the Mechanicon team. People will go if they want and since it sounds like you guys don't like the price then hey don't go and just leave it at that. I personally would love to go this year but I am doing Mikhalias event that later that month(budget) and more importantly I have drill that weekend, and my unit is several months out from deployment so no getting out of it for me.

I'm not sure what you're reading from my text... I don't sugar coat things, but I am certainly not attacking. I am asking questions from my NJ perspective. NJ people have a harsh way with words :p

I'm still on the fence about attending Mechanicon. It sounds like a great event, and last year's pics and wrapups sell it very well.
It competes with DaBoyzGT for a time slot, though. DBGT is the weekend after, and is roughly the same distance from home (Maine). I can't do both, and DBGT is $75 cheaper.

Honestly, the cost of the badge isn't what determines things for me. It's the cost of lodging and travel. Those add up far faster, and can easily trump the badge cost by half.

Well I guess I approach it from this aspect:
I spend 20+ dollars going out to a 2 hour movie.
I spend 30-40 dollars eating an average meal out for an hour.
I might spend 100-200 dollars on eating a real good meal out.
Go to a professional sporting event to be entertained for a few hours Tickets, Food, Parking well over 200.00-300.00 dollars.
Go to the Zoo, Theater production, go see a band in concert, go to a theme park. I’m spending very similar money for only a fraction of the time.

So in my world 125.00 dollars is a pretty good value for 2-3 days of entertainment. Course that might not be the case for everyone and value can be directly linked to overall experience. Additionally, there are a lot of factors outside the control of the event organizer that might have an effect on one’s overall experience.

Here is my beef. What is the objective here? Is the purpose of this thread to ask legitimate questions about the cost of the Mechanicon ? Seems a more effective method would have been to send the organizers of the event a direct email with your questions? Or is it to call into question the “cost/value” of the Mechanicon, not really seriously planning on attending due to the expense, make some public debate, about it and take the opportunity to point out the “value” of another event. If it is the latter, it’s shameful.

@targetawg - “For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down”

Wow. My response is .. Where have you been? Folks have been stepping up and getting involved in events all over the country for years! AdeptiCon has had a standard open offer for folks to get involved since day one, and hundreds of people have answered the call and gotten involved. It has always been an open process driven by gamers.
Now, I’ll grant you in the NovaOpen case, finally after 10-15 years of “competitive” gamers bemoaning other “events” not catering to their “needs”. Someone from that community, saw the opportunity, stepped up and ran a good event. To that .. I say about time! Outstanding and well done! I look forward to working with Mike and anyone that is willing to step up and take on the challenges of running an event.

Tony good luck with the event. I’ve heard good things about it from a number of people. No event is for everyone and fortunately folks have choices.

frgsinwinter, regarding painting scores, what I said was that I expect the middle-of-the-road scores to bump up a little with max scores still being hard to obtain.

Last year was last year. But note that the average painting score of the top 10 overall finishers was 37.5/50. The top 5 overall scored 39.6/50. So while Nick's score (31) impacted him, it didn't put him 20 pts out of contention like you seem to be inferring. One minor becoming a massacre and that gap is pretty much gone. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see players score more BPs this year, just because it's year two and our returnees know what to expect (I expect Nick in particular to come hungry and loaded for bear, LOL). And again, last year was last year and missions could be tweaked a bit for 2010 (that's not my role, so I can't speak to that).

But yes -- and it seems like we're repeating ourselves on this point -- painting is part of our event, like it is with many, many tournaments on the circuit. Ultimately, NOVA did its thing, we're doing ours, DaBoyz are doing theirs, etc. The indy circuit serves 31 flavors, not just rocky road. And even if rocky road is your fave, maybe you'd find we serve up some really rich and tasty mint chocolate chip. Like our moms said, you won't know unless you try it, right?

I think you'll find -- and I feel our willingness to discuss this here demonstrates this -- that we're responsive, transparent, and open to ideas. However, I'd also say that if you *really* want our ear on some of these points, then attend. That way you can come at us from a perspective of "I see what you're going for and I enjoyed A and B, but I think C and D could be better in this way..." Again, still willing to discuss whatever here, but hopefully you can see how that kind of feedback helps us really hone in on things.

muwhe wrote:Well I guess I approach it from this aspect:
Here is my beef. What is the objective here? Is the purpose of this thread to ask legitimate questions about the cost of the Mechanicon ? Seems a more effective method would have been to send the organizers of the event a direct email with your questions? Or is it to call into question the “cost/value” of the Mechanicon, not really seriously planning on attending due to the expense, make some public debate, about it and take the opportunity to point out the “value” of another event. If it is the latter, it’s shameful.

I think you folks have some sort of insane idea about shady alterior internet motives. I put every effort (as you can read in my post) into pointing out what my concerns were, made sure to qualify that what I was saying was not proven fact but what I had heard, and say that it was a concern of mine and others about attending. How you guys keep jumping into this idea of us never intending on going and just trying to troll mechanicon is beyond me. The mechanicon guys have responded to all of our concerns and explained the event better for us and thats helped me at least a great deal. I actually think it may be the "defenders" of Mechanicon where no attack is intended that may end up creating some sort of weird debate when the original intent was just a call for information.

muwhe wrote:
@targetawg - “For the first time in...10-15 years of gaming, I actually feel the GT's are giving the players a bit of a voice in how things go down”

Wow. My response is .. Where have you been? Folks have been stepping up and getting involved in events all over the country for years! AdeptiCon has had a standard open offer for folks to get involved since day one, and hundreds of people have answered the call and gotten involved. It has always been an open process driven by gamers.
Now, I’ll grant you in the NovaOpen case, finally after 10-15 years of “competitive” gamers bemoaning other “events” not catering to their “needs”. Someone from that community, saw the opportunity, stepped up and ran a good event. To that .. I say about time! Outstanding and well done! I look forward to working with Mike and anyone that is willing to step up and take on the challenges of running an event.

Not quite sure if the snipes at "competitive" gamers were "needed" here...I merely stated that more than ever recently I feel like the player base was being listened to when it came to GT design. Adepticon may have had an open call for years, but I'm no where near Chicago, so I've treated it largely as a non-entity. Not because its bad, but just because I don't intend on flying to a GT at this point in my life.

I think posts like the above quote, whether its intended or not, drive a wedge into the gaming community and end up assuming an artificial divide ("someone from that community" for instance) . Lets stop bracketing people into "competitive gamers" and "fluff bunnies" as defacto categories. All of us are "fluff bunnies" to an extent, and all of us are "competitive" to an extent.

Here's the thing Target when your posting on the internet even if you don'tfeel the deen to as much you should be clear concise and even through out " not trying to start something just asking for further explanation", and this goes to everyone. The reason being fellow tourney organizers understand this much better then most, is that we take a TON of flak and as stated often loose out money and time to prepare and set about a event for others, and we get noting in return. Their is no money thrown our way for doing it, you don't get product, or really anything and the problem being people just constantly bash at you. Now I apologize if it seemed to me that some of you were more so on the attack because well some were, and I believe you when you say you weren't but from an organizers point of view it's a harsh world that really makes you not want to run events because people are just pricks instead of being thankfull for what you do. As stated I don't think this was your intention and tony... sorry it took so long to get out your appriciation plaque... found it inthe basement the other day and went woops though I sent this months ago..

muwhe wrote:
Here is my beef. What is the objective here? Is the purpose of this thread to ask legitimate questions about the cost of the Mechanicon ? Seems a more effective method would have been to send the organizers of the event a direct email with your questions? Or is it to call into question the “cost/value” of the Mechanicon, not really seriously planning on attending due to the expense, make some public debate, about it and take the opportunity to point out the “value” of another event. If it is the latter, it’s shameful.

@Gorgon
Thanks for the answers/Responses. I'll be in attendance and will most definatly has some feed back (Both positive and Things that could be better). I'll purchase my ticket soon. In no way take my questions as attacks. I really just wanted more information and assurance that the event isn't OVERLY tilted to hobbyists over the competitive crowd

frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

gorgon wrote:frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

Pint of Guinness and some 40k intellectualism? Absolutely! I'll be in Friday, that's a long weekend for me. You guys need help setting up or running the gothic thing?

Lets stop bracketing people into "competitive gamers" and "fluff bunnies" as defacto categories. All of us are "fluff bunnies" to an extent, and all of us are "competitive" to an extent.

On this point we can certainly agree. I would even settle for someone correctly labeling me as I am far more "competitive" than I am "fluff bunny".

Regardless, seems better ideas involving 40K and beer have been proposed ... and I'll drink to that.

Not attacking just saying that if the cost driver was the venue just change the venue to bring costs down.

Painting scores can be really mixed depending on the area and the judges you need to know what they are looking for. I have scored as high as 98% and as low as 65% on paint scores so I just want to know what the paint judges here are looking for so I can adjust.

Could you please post this years missions? Will the missions be pretty much the same as last years or straight book missions? Nothing like finding out your army does not do well given the mission parameters at a tournament after you paid.

Hi guys,
Just popping in to remind folks that this is for fun and enjoyment.

It is clear that some players are somewhat new to large tournaments and never spent this kind of money for events. Most of the recent GW GTs would run you almost $500 for the ticket and two hotel rooms in Baltimore. Many of these players never attended a real GT. If we tally up individual GT attendances, I think our club's members probably have attended close to 100 GW GT's. Our guys miss that old style event and that is our mission for what we want to provide.

Some folks thoroughly enjoy playing in stores or cheaper venues. Some prefer it over larger events. I love meeting new gamers, so you will see me at all kinds of events.

Some folks like specific rule sets. I don't care much about what type of events I play in, it is more about getting together with other gamers and playing in well run events.

All of the above are great reasons to help you make a decision on where to play, because the diversity of events out there means there will most likely be something for everyone. For those who want to try something new or go with their tried-and-true events, they have choices.


Please feel free to ask questions and we will be happy to help answer you as quick as we can, just remember we may not be able to get to your question immediately.

If you are still on the fence about attending this year, the best advice I can offer is to keep an eye on this thread or drop us an email. We have a ton of new info, rules packs, sponsor announcements, and more lined up.

frgsinwntr wrote:

gorgon wrote:frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

Pint of Guinness and some 40k intellectualism? Absolutely! I'll be in Friday, that's a long weekend for me. You guys need help setting up or running the gothic thing?

Dibs on joining in for beer.

I'm considering just staying at the hotel with it costing 95 a night....

targetawg wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:

gorgon wrote:frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

Pint of Guinness and some 40k intellectualism? Absolutely! I'll be in Friday, that's a long weekend for me. You guys need help setting up or running the gothic thing?

Dibs on joining in for beer.

I'm considering just staying at the hotel with it costing 95 a night....

How about we play some Battle fleet alcoholic?

frgsinwntr wrote:

targetawg wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:

gorgon wrote:frgs, no problem here. I've lived in the Philly area long enough to let NJ/Philly/NY/etc bluntness roll off my back.

Glad to hear you'll make it. You can chat us up at the hotel bar about your ideas. Or over games and beers from the wet bar in the main gaming hall on Saturday night. Or over drinks at any of West Chester's fine establishments (it's a college town).

Here's where I'm supposed to say "not that our club is a bunch of drunks," but...

Pint of Guinness and some 40k intellectualism? Absolutely! I'll be in Friday, that's a long weekend for me. You guys need help setting up or running the gothic thing?

Dibs on joining in for beer.

I'm considering just staying at the hotel with it costing 95 a night....

How about we play some Battle fleet alcoholic?

Hrm....see this I didn't know about. Details?

I'm up for some BFA, although you'll have to teach me how to play. I learn best over frosty beverages.

I'lll probably make it since frgsinwnter is going. Would be nice if frgsinwntr, targetawg and Avariel all go so would make for a good time with friends. Yermom said it was fun so willing to give it a shot if my friends do.

Yeah vinny me and George are going also, I don't think Tom iss going to make it though.

I'm not going to have an army up in time for the GT, but I live only 20 minutes away, so if you could send me a PM about your club and other happenings that you do, I'm in need of a new gaming group. Thanks

Not related to the OP, I know.

A couple of updates...

Kraftmark and The Games Keep join our growing list of sponsors

We are pleased to announce that Kraftmark is another second year sponsor for MechaniCon 2010! Kraftmark offers fantastic epoxy sculpting products — such as ProCreate professional sculpting putty — that are in many hobbyists' toolboxes.

Not only have they sent some of their putty products for event prizes, they will be on site at MechaniCon doing product demos. It’s a great opportunity to pick up some sculpting tips from the pros.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/kraftmark-sponsorship-announcement/2010/09/


The Games Keep also returns as a MechaniCon sponsor, and will be offering board and card game products in our vending area. Their retail store is only a half-mile from the convention site, so plan to stop by when you come out in November.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/the-games-keep-sponsors-mechanicon-2010/2010/09/


The ever-growing MechaniCon 2010 sponsor list also includes The WarStore, FTW Games, Jawaballs, The Adventurer’s Guild, Showcase Comics and Games Workshop.

More updates and announcements to come very soon...

Update for 9/21 -- Philly Fall Brawl and Gale Force 9

Tickets remain for all our events, but they are moving, so please register soon! Two updates for you today:


Philly Fall Brawl

The Philly Fall Brawl returns for its second big year! Brought to you by The Adventurer's Guild BB League, the event is a 5-round, 2-day tournament full of the face smashing, blood spattered action everyone loves! Your $35 entrance fee gets you custom tournament d6s, a patch (for your jean jacket, of course), a bitz pack from The Warstore, and admission to the MechaniCon side events.

This will be an LRB6 tournament with 1.1 million gold to buy your team. Full rules including kick-off table and reference sheets are available at http://www.agbbl.com/phillyfallbrawl/

Please bring your team (preferably painted, but not required), two copies of your roster, block dice, and a d8.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/philly-fall-brawl-2010-updated-info/2010/09/



Gale Force 9 Sponsorship

We are very happy to have support from Gale Force Nine this year. They will be supplying some of their great products for the Privateer Press events, and helping with our custom gaming accessory for the Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/announcing-gale-force-nine-sponsorship/2010/09/


Lots of great stuff going on here that we should be able to share with you soon. Stay tuned!

I just got myself registered for this event yesterday.

It was a great time last year,well organized with lots of prize support.

I am looking forward to seeing everyone in Nov.

Now I just gotta finish painting this army...

Ted.

Littlbitz wrote:

Now I just gotta finish painting this army...

Ted.

Speak the truth, brother.

See ya there

Sadly i can't attend this as planned

My computer is on the fritz... and I can't afford it...

Can't afford it, makes sense.


The computer on the frizt part, though ... I don't get that.

In my head I instantly analogized: "I want to go to the grocery store, but my computer is on the fritz ... fawk."

<3 ... not enough info = ??!??

It's a Dell inspiron.... 5 years old and the screen just died. Basically last night... I can take a picture of the hindge which is broken... But yea. I need the computer more than a gt...

I'm posting via phone currently :p

MechaniCon 2010 is just one month away! A couple updates:

40K Kill Team Tournaments

We're happy to announce that the Berks PA Gaming Club will be holding four Kill Team Tournaments at MechaniCon 2010!

In addition to prizes for each individual tournament, there will be a trophy at the end of the weekend for the overall winner determined by performance in the individual events. There are only 12 slots per round, so grab a ticket now before your time slot fills up!

Time slots:
– Friday 1pm - 4:30pm
– Friday 6:30pm - 10pm
– Saturday 12pm - 3:30pm
– Saturday 6:30pm - 10pm

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/new-events-info-40k-kill-team-tournaments/2010/10/

Tickets: http://www.themechanicon.com/1/ordering/
FAQ: http://www.themechanicon.com/1/wp-content/uploads/BerksKTfaqM10.pdf
Rules pack: http://www.themechanicon.com/1/wp-content/uploads/BerksKTrulesM10.pdf



Chris Bledsoe Memorial Charity Auction

Once again we will host the Chris Bledsoe Memorial Charity Auction on Saturday (November 6). The event is a silent auction in the Brandywine Ballroom from noon until 8pm.

Chris was very involved with the gaming industry and a huge fan of gaming, so the items up for bid are definitely related the gaming hobby. Anyone wanting to bid can get a bidder form at the registration desk. All proceeds will go to The Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.

E-mail Tony Spino, the auction coordinator, at gaminggarage@gmail.com for more information about donating items and services or for any questions.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/chris-bledsoe-memorial-charity-auction-2010/2010/10/

You say you want loot?!?

COME. AND. GET IT.

With three weeks before MechaniCon 2010, our prizes are starting to roll in and pile up.

What's in all those GF9 boxes?



Why, it's one of this year's goodie bag giveaways...a customized MechaniCon multi-template! That's a $12 item that's free for anyone registering for our 40K GT main event.



Check out Battlefoam stepping up to the plate!



Here's just SOME (maybe half) of the GW product from our generous sponsors!



This is some great Warmachine and Hordes support from GF9!



And Kraftmark has given us some of their great hobby putty products!



This is just SOME of our loot. We'll probably top $5000, and a bunch more stuff arrived in just the two days since we took these pics. So make sure to register today if you want a crack at it!

I'm still hoping to be there, but having been out of work for the past five weeks has definitely put funds a bit low.

I am looking for some people to split hotel costs with and/or travel from the airport. Let me know if you're looking for another person anyone!

Painting every night on my army for the Friday Night Fight

Tironum wrote:Hi guys,
Just popping in to remind folks that this is for fun and enjoyment.

It is clear that some players are somewhat new to large tournaments and never spent this kind of money for events. Most of the recent GW GTs would run you almost $500 for the ticket and two hotel rooms in Baltimore. Many of these players never attended a real GT. If we tally up individual GT attendances, I think our club's members probably have attended close to 100 GW GT's. Our guys miss that old style event and that is our mission for what we want to provide.

Some folks thoroughly enjoy playing in stores or cheaper venues. Some prefer it over larger events. I love meeting new gamers, so you will see me at all kinds of events.

Some folks like specific rule sets. I don't care much about what type of events I play in, it is more about getting together with other gamers and playing in well run events.

All of the above are great reasons to help you make a decision on where to play, because the diversity of events out there means there will most likely be something for everyone. For those who want to try something new or go with their tried-and-true events, they have choices.


Please feel free to ask questions and we will be happy to help answer you as quick as we can, just remember we may not be able to get to your question immediately.

If you are still on the fence about attending this year, the best advice I can offer is to keep an eye on this thread or drop us an email. We have a ton of new info, rules packs, sponsor announcements, and more lined up.

I realize the need to maintain an 'image,' and even though I'm going to this tournament - I have to ask why ticket pricing for this tournament being vastly larger than other 'Grand' tournaments is being dismissed as a different playstyle? I saw the post about how much it takes to run this thing, and I totally understand venue costs. I think what people are really asking is, when other large, well-run, well-supported tournaments on the East Coast are so much cheaper to enter when they have similar or more expensive areas of venue, what's the return for them to enter in droves? Before I get lumped in with people who are classed as 'not having been in large events before,' I have competed in UK GT heats/tournaments which are very large, well organized events where people travel from other countries to attend. It has been a few years though, but even GW had reasonable tickets and even fed us.

The largest issue for me deciding on the ticket was the painting. Scoring is nice in a lot of ways as it doesn't preclude, but dissuades people who aren't serious about the hobby to enter... but the subjectivity of a 50 or 100 point painting scale is really starting to tweak me. I have a well-painted army (except the last two squads still in production), but I can't help but think this tournament rewards two types of people right off the bat: People who paint extremely well, or people who can afford level 4 paint jobs for points. I love that the well painted armies get rewarded, but some armies (like a lot of mine) was professionally painted because I lack the time to commit. GW always scored painting in UK GTs with an objective system where you meet all the criteria and you get points. Based, check. Unique squads, check. Minimum Colors, check. Then perhaps a bonus for something insane like hand-painting portraits, logos, massive conversions. How does this stand up? I don't know, but I hope it's not a curve based on whatever the judges saw from the top 10 paint jobs. Painting scores in tournaments are to maintain standards and honor those who take the hobby to the next level. I can only hope this doesn't go too far past that.

All in all, I think this should be an awesome event from what you've all posted. I can't wait to get a crack at a 5th ed tourney for the first time since getting back into the game. I'm sad my army wasn't completed by the time the NOVA open was on. If all the hype about putting the Grand back in Grand tournament are truly advertised, I may not mind the cost, but I may mind the paint scoring if it's subjective as hell.

Zain, we indeed use a checklist painting system. It's pretty clear that clarity is what everyone wants for paint scoring. It's 53 total available points, with a maximum possible score of 50. We have a total of 1-3 subjective points available to the paint judge, because sometimes an army may not score well via a checklist (which by its nature tends to be very technique-oriented) but has a really nice overall effect anyway. But obviously the great majority of points are as objective as we can make them.

The system seemed to work pretty well last year, but we made a few minor tweaks for 2010. Check your PM...I sent you some more details.

Zain60 wrote:

Tironum wrote:Hi guys,
Just popping in to remind folks that this is for fun and enjoyment.

It is clear that some players are somewhat new to large tournaments and never spent this kind of money for events. Most of the recent GW GTs would run you almost $500 for the ticket and two hotel rooms in Baltimore. Many of these players never attended a real GT. If we tally up individual GT attendances, I think our club's members probably have attended close to 100 GW GT's. Our guys miss that old style event and that is our mission for what we want to provide.

Some folks thoroughly enjoy playing in stores or cheaper venues. Some prefer it over larger events. I love meeting new gamers, so you will see me at all kinds of events.

Some folks like specific rule sets. I don't care much about what type of events I play in, it is more about getting together with other gamers and playing in well run events.

All of the above are great reasons to help you make a decision on where to play, because the diversity of events out there means there will most likely be something for everyone. For those who want to try something new or go with their tried-and-true events, they have choices.


Please feel free to ask questions and we will be happy to help answer you as quick as we can, just remember we may not be able to get to your question immediately.

If you are still on the fence about attending this year, the best advice I can offer is to keep an eye on this thread or drop us an email. We have a ton of new info, rules packs, sponsor announcements, and more lined up.

I realize the need to maintain an 'image,' and even though I'm going to this tournament - I have to ask why ticket pricing for this tournament being vastly larger than other 'Grand' tournaments is being dismissed as a different playstyle? I saw the post about how much it takes to run this thing, and I totally understand venue costs. I think what people are really asking is, when other large, well-run, well-supported tournaments on the East Coast are so much cheaper to enter when they have similar or more expensive areas of venue, what's the return for them to enter in droves? Before I get lumped in with people who are classed as 'not having been in large events before,' I have competed in UK GT heats/tournaments which are very large, well organized events where people travel from other countries to attend. It has been a few years though, but even GW had reasonable tickets and even fed us.

The largest issue for me deciding on the ticket was the painting. Scoring is nice in a lot of ways as it doesn't preclude, but dissuades people who aren't serious about the hobby to enter... but the subjectivity of a 50 or 100 point painting scale is really starting to tweak me. I have a well-painted army (except the last two squads still in production), but I can't help but think this tournament rewards two types of people right off the bat: People who paint extremely well, or people who can afford level 4 paint jobs for points. I love that the well painted armies get rewarded, but some armies (like a lot of mine) was professionally painted because I lack the time to commit. GW always scored painting in UK GTs with an objective system where you meet all the criteria and you get points. Based, check. Unique squads, check. Minimum Colors, check. Then perhaps a bonus for something insane like hand-painting portraits, logos, massive conversions. How does this stand up? I don't know, but I hope it's not a curve based on whatever the judges saw from the top 10 paint jobs. Painting scores in tournaments are to maintain standards and honor those who take the hobby to the next level. I can only hope this doesn't go too far past that.

All in all, I think this should be an awesome event from what you've all posted. I can't wait to get a crack at a 5th ed tourney for the first time since getting back into the game. I'm sad my army wasn't completed by the time the NOVA open was on. If all the hype about putting the Grand back in Grand tournament are truly advertised, I may not mind the cost, but I may mind the paint scoring if it's subjective as hell.

Hehe... I feel like I was lumped into that category... and I've done the NOVA, Necronomicon, Baltimore GT, Conflict, St valentines day massacre and others... I think you'll find that they won't change the painting or price, its is far to close to the event.

However... any word on missions yet?

I looked but haven't seen them. To be quite honest I'm on the fence on whether or not I want to see them early. Normally I do, but as long as they aren't overly complicated and stupid.. i wouldn't mind just getting them there at the table 10 minutes beforehand.

It has the benefit (despite its obvious annoyance) of not rewarding people for tweaking lists for the objectives.

Still wishing I could make this. Fingers crossed that you change the weekend next year.

If it wasn't two weeks after the Warstore Weekend I would have definatly attended. But a big convention and a GT is two much for me in two weeks.

Just a quick update for today!

Industry icon Dave Taylor is once again offering his painting services for our Chris Bledsoe memorial charity auction! If you're the winning bidder, Dave will paint a 28mm model of your choice.

Followers of Dave's blog may recognize last year's winning bidder’s Vulkan He’stan model.



Privateer Press also recently donated a signed copy of the Trollbloods book to add to our pile of items and services. The auction is a great way to get your hands on some cool stuff and support a great cause. All proceeds from the auction will go to The Leukemia and Lymphoma Society.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/chris-bledsoe-memorial-charity-auction-2010/2010/10/

To echo frgsinwntr's post, can you please post the missions. Or at least confirm whether you'll be using _all_ of the missions from the book, a three tier approach like Adepticon (in which the tiers are based on the rulebook missions) or whether you'll be using homegrown missions (modified kps, table quarters, killing hqs etc).

This for me is the most important thing to know before committing to a tournament. If I'm going to travel 300 miles and stay in a hotel and pay a lot of money for a tournament I'd like to know in advance the type of missions. If I don't like the mission design then I can make the choice not to attend.

Thats been one of the great things about the indy tournaments recently. TOs have been posting missions in advance which means players can make the educated decision about attending or not based on whether they think they'll have a good time gaming.

Thanks in advance.

The Everliving wrote:To echo frgsinwntr's post, can you please post the missions. Or at least confirm whether you'll be using _all_ of the missions from the book, a three tier approach like Adepticon (in which the tiers are based on the rulebook missions) or whether you'll be using homegrown missions (modified kps, table quarters, killing hqs etc).

This for me is the most important thing to know before committing to a tournament. If I'm going to travel 300 miles and stay in a hotel and pay a lot of money for a tournament I'd like to know in advance the type of missions. If I don't like the mission design then I can make the choice not to attend.

Thats been one of the great things about the indy tournaments recently. TOs have been posting missions in advance which means players can make the educated decision about attending or not based on whether they think they'll have a good time gaming.

Thanks in advance.

QFT

Well said Alex! congrats on the newcc finish!

I am in the same boat as others it seems. I'd like some transparency in the missions as well because it is a 9 hour drive for me to attend (I've already registered) and I'd really like to show up confident that I'm playing in a great and semi balanced tournament. I am not a fan of trying to drunkenly decipher a scenario round by round!

Emailing these scenarios to the attendees has worked brilliantly for folks like Mike from Showcase comics because it gets rid of the inherent tournament day complaints that come with every tournament....at least it gets rid of the complaints about scenarios : ) ! People then have the chance to ask important questions and it saves your butt as you get the chance to make revisions! I'm sure people who play in the TO's area already have a pretty good idea of what the scenarios are which is another reason to become transparent and give out the scenarios as to not grant unfair advantage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally....for $120 + travel + food + hotel + gallons of beer I think we deserve this stuff to be posted!

Per our TO, we're not sharing all the missions in advance. Having said that, you can expect them to look mostly like rulebook missions -- nothing wacky, no deployments on short board edges instead of long ones, no "carry the football" missions, no all-game night fights, no random meteor strikes from the sky, etc.

The main difference is with scoring, as we use a points system. Last year, mission 1 was basically a Dawn of War Seize Ground with 5 objectives. But instead of just counting objectives at game's end, players scored a certain amount of points for each objective they held, and then scored some additional points for secondary stuff. You can expect a very similar approach this year.

Regarding locals knowing the missions...no. We don't run smaller events using our missions and don't share the missions otherwise. And our club policy is that we don't play in our event (beyond having the customary ringer in case of an odd number). We're a small club of vets not bent on world domination. And as I said earlier, everyone should recognize the deployments and basic mission concepts anyway.

@frgsinwntr -- I thought you definitely weren't coming.

Per our TO, we're not sharing all the missions in advance. Having said that, you can expect them to look mostly like rulebook missions -- nothing wacky, no deployments on short board edges instead of long ones, no "carry the football" missions, no all-game night fights, no random meteor strikes from the sky, etc.

I'm afraid that's too vague for me to commit to attend. For instance I don't know if there is a kill point or cap & control mission, dawn of war or spearhead setup and if there is what number of each type. You could have 5 missions based around 'seize ground' completely ignoring kill points and capture and control and you'd have a mission that looks mostly like a rulebook mission...

For the amount of money people are paying I would have hoped the missions would be posted so that players can plan to have the most fun time possible. GW UK make no attempt to hide their missions at the GTs and the fact that we all know in advance that we're playing 2 of each basic type doesn't make the event any less fun.

That said, its your tournament and you can set the rules however you want. If you change your minds and put up some transparency around the missions I'll likely make it down there (note, my request for mission transparency is all about the price: for this much money I like to know what I'm getting into).

You can look at the missions from last year to see how they break down. This year's missions will be very similar. There may have been a small question or two but there was not any major confusion with the missions only being seen at the beginning of each round last year.
http://www.themechanicon.com/1/wp-content/uploads/2009-GT-Pack-with-missions.pdf

There are different deployments, kill points (not modified), victory points, table quarters, protect unit types, destroy unit types, and more. Each mission will be different and you will most likely need a more balanced force to win the majority of your games.

The scenery covers almost everything in the rulebook except roads (gotta have something to add next year!). There is area terrain, impassable terrain, dangerous terrain, rivers, LOS blocking terrain, tons of scenery made for tournament play. Having similar terrain across the entire event can be just as important a factor in leveling the playing field as mission types.

Also, all the terrain is the same on every table. This does not mean every table has two hills, a wood, a bastion - instead this means that you will not be encountering some wacky tables that just don't match or a canyon table that only benefits flying troops.

There is a sideboard on every table for your army display/rulebooks/casualties and there is PLENTY of room between tables so that you are not sitting in your neighbor's lap and you can walk past another player with your army between rounds.

And finally, take a look at our pricing again please. Check out the other events, add the ticket and two hotel rooms and we are actually cheaper than many of them.

Tironum wrote:And finally, take a look at our pricing again please. Check out the other events, add the ticket and two hotel rooms and we are actually cheaper than many of them.

Two nights at group rate = $184 + $125=$309 (+taxes, fees)

The average ticket at most tournaments, even the 'GRAND' ones = $50 + $240 (Two nights somewhere east coast average) = $290 (+taxes, fees)


Hotel cost over two days does, indeed, make a difference in OVERALL cost of a gaming trip. I believe the cost issues people were bringing up were more to do with the ticket itself and their potential return on that investment and not whether or not the hotel is decently priced.

Well, to compare it to the recent Nova Open. The main tourney was a one-day event. $50. Mechanicon, 2-day event, $125. So only $25 more overall, not even counting the hotel rooms. IMO, it's worth it.

To be fair it's $12.50 a game at the Nova vs. $25 per game at Mechanicon. So Mechanicon is twice as expensive on a per game basis not including the people who played friday or sunday. No opinion on it other than this since I wouldn't be flying to the east coast for this one. I only got one-two of those trips in me a year and I used this ones for Nova

Seems pretty comparable to WargamesCon this year which was also $125 for the ticket. JMO though...

Cheers, Gary

Ahhh, but that ticket was for 7 games right? So it's still a better deal respectively. And did that $125 allow you to play in an event on friday night? Just curious.

Hulksmash wrote:Ahhh, but that ticket was for 7 games right? So it's still a better deal respectively. And did that $125 allow you to play in an event on friday night? Just curious.

Yes, it was 7 games. However, for the Friday events you had to purchase separate tickets.

Cheers, Gary

Price per game, guys?
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Need I remind you that there's a bar in the main gaming hall? And a bar upstairs, in a hotel which also happens to be located in a college town?

Not hard to figure out our value proposition.

I'll have a bunch more updates to come very soon...

Have you been to Austin Gorgon? There might not have been a bar in the gaming hall at Wargamescon, i don't know as I wasn't there. But Austin and 6th St. will top almost any college town in the nation.

And yeah, price per game is a nice way of comparing costs for similar venues. Much more accurate than a daily rate really as it's what we're paying for, to play games. I played in a GT right next to Disneyland with a bar downstairs in SoCal for $60. Basically people can afford to hit 2 GT's or just yours which to me is a poor pricing plan. But to each their own. Just don't knock my way of establishing value for an event.

Not to be brought into it, but 1 day of formal games + 2 days of open gaming in a hotel with a nice bar offering specials for attendees at $50.

Next year we'll be at a 5-star resort style hotel with 53,000 square feet of gaming, 3 in-hotel bars, a rooftop restaurant, another restaurant, and metro access to DC, hopefully/probably without a major price hike.

Regardless, Mechanicon's price is undoubtedly built upon is budget, and these guys are using their free time and energy to put it on - would be cool to stop having the harping on price. Similarly, would be cool not to have contrasts with other events that offer similar propositions in similar establishments.

I've been to other events, but this year will be my first attendance at Mechanicon. I have heard good things about it so hopefully it will be worth the trip.

Cheers, Gary

don_mondo wrote:Well, to compare it to the recent Nova Open. The main tourney was a one-day event. $50. Mechanicon, 2-day event, $125. So only $25 more overall, not even counting the hotel rooms. IMO, it's worth it.

I sure flippin hope so! I'm scrambling to paint 2 squads and two HQs before it! Incidentally, I for one am happy with not blasting out scenarios before the tournament. I liked that they did in previous GTs I've been to, but that was the UK at 1500 points. 1850 is much easier to abuse if you know what you're playing for ahead of time. There's a lot more room for tweaking. I'd like to show up to a tournament where everyone has made all around nasty lists, well-painted armies, and are eager to have fun and test themselves against other people of like mind. Not to find out that my army is less -tweakable- than another list at a certain scenario.

I prefer bring list, play list, win or lose. I agree with the sentiment about WHACKY scenarios though and if there are any, I'm sure people will be upset. The scenarios for last year's Mechanicon weren't very 'out there' so I'm reserving quite a bit of judgment and giving the TO the benefit of the doubt. The only weird thing (to me) is the scoring system going up to thousands of points and meting out rewards for 5-6 different objective/accomplishments. I've never had that type of play before so it should be interesting.

@Zain60

Most people I know don't tweak there list based on the scenarios since they already built all comer lists which should be fine in almost any scenario. But getting there and finding out you have to outflank a unit (when this is something you don't like to do) or that all the missions are DoW or that there is an all Night Fight mission would piss some people off. And knowing about it ahead of time could have saved them money as they could have chosen not to attend.

Not saying that the Mechanicon guys are doing that at all. Seems like they'll be middle of the road missions. But you can already see how the non-clarity kept someone from attending (TheEverliving) simply because of the cost he wants to know what he's fully getting into before he pays up which I can understand.

Yea, I was more talking about people who want to make revisions based on scenarios. Obviously there are other more savory positions on why you should have them beforehand. I think if they say the scenarios haven't changed much, and that they gave last years' scenarios out, you can make a pretty decent extrapolation on what you're facing this year. I wish that was enough for everyone, but I understand TheEverliving's position. It's a lot of money and time to invest into an event if you've been burned before at tournaments with wacky missions.

NOW LESS THAN A WEEK AWAY!

Please note that MONDAY (Nov. 1) is the last day for internet ticket sales. After Monday, you'll have to buy them at the door.

We're crazy busy prepping for the con. Tables are coming together...

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/shots-of-tables-and-scenery/2010/10/wr2010_1013-012/

...and stuff has been rolling in. Here's a few recent additions:

All of our 40K GT attendees will receive this great patch!



TerranScapes has donated gift certificates for prizes!
http://www.terranscapes.com/index.php

Secret Weapon Miniatures has donated gift certificates for prizes, and 10% discount and free shipping coupons for the registration packs!
http://www.secretweaponminiatures.com/

Chris Dubuque/Jawaballs has donated some of his great resin bases for prizes!
http://www.jawaballsproductions.com/

And longtime hobbyist Jason Buyaki is donating painting services to our charity auction.
http://fortbuyaki.blogspot.com/

Gotta get back to work!

See you at The MechaniCon 2010!

And putting my money where my mouth is, I'm in. Looking forward to a good time, see you all there!

Mondo, Hope to see you there! I'm in a mad dash to get some type of display done. I've never done a tournament where a display garnered points (and is therefore a scored item). Not that details matter with 7-8 Eldar Gravtanks you can't even see the ground.

Gorgon: Is there open gaming this Friday while the 40k vet tournament is going on?

I'll have to check on that, but I tend to think we'll have open tables you can use.

Awesome. I may not make it in time for the Friday Night Fight but still want to scrounge a game.

Prep work continues and it is all going great!

There are tickets available for all events at the door. Please bring cash as we will not have a point of sale set up. We can take PayPal at the door if you are able to send payment through a smart-phone, but cash is the easiest.

There is a bit of road construction in the area near the hotel on Route 202, but it shouldn't have an effect on your trip.

There will be tables available for open gaming all weekend. Depending on the time and what events are currently running, there will tables in both the main halls.

And finally, the bar opens at noon Friday!

"Grot Battle Tanks - CHARGE!!"

Played last night in the Friday Night Fight, and had a blast. Nice way to turn a 5 game tournament into an 8 game weekend. (Or in my case, sneak in a tournament on a friday since I work 12 hours on Saturdays.) There were a dozen of us playing in the tournament starting at noon, and a few dozen more folks filtered in as the day went on for open gaming.

Tables were very high quality, nicely painted terrain, and very congenial atmosphere. Games were hard fought and the missions made you work very hard to score max points, quite enjoyable.

Having a bar in the room with games was a huge bonus!!

I went 3-0 with my Dreadmob list from IA8 and the stars of the show were a sqwardrun of 6 Grot Battle Tanks. They soaked up a load of fire and never got wiped totaly out. And ranked up an impressive total by the end of the tournament killing two wave serpents and some eldar infantry, a squad of scout bikers, marine captain, and a predator, and then tank shocking 40 imperial guardsmen off the board, then running behind another mob of 40 and flaming into them, causing a moral roll and another run off the table. I suspect that will be their glory days.) They probably die on turn one from now on.

Wishing now I could make it for the next 5 games

Grot Tanks- awesome! I don't even play 40k and I love those models

I'm surprised they did so well- and you're right, probably jinxed for first turn doom from now on

Congrats to Jawa for winning!

How'd the scoring break down?

Jawa won? Awesome.

mikhaila wrote:Jawa won? Awesome.

text message I got said Chris won... so yea? i think

BatReps

I brought a trimmed version of my NOVA list:
2 DP, Wings, Nurgle, Warptime
1 Greater Summoned Daemon
3 7 man PM squads, flamer, melta, PW Champ, Rhino
3 3 man Oblits

Round 1
Eldar - 3 fire prism's, bunch of wave serpants, farseer
nothing too exciting here except that my oblits knocked down all but one flyer.
Minor victory.

Round 2
IG - Paskquisher, wall-o-chimaeras, Vendettas
2 objectives, quarters. Grrrr.
I go first and the game basically consisted of my depositing one squad of PM's on my objective and hurling the army towards him. I wrecked the vendetta on turn 1 (yee-haw!), and made the long hike across. Blew up most of his stuff along the way, except Pask and 2 squads in Chimaeras. It's a draw on 5, draw on 6. Top of turn 7, My last three relevant PM's assault a vet squad near his objective and run them off. I'm contesting. He shoots...back two PM's die. He fires his last multilaser. One wound. One Save. I win.
Not-MVP of the game: Pask. He fired his big gun and lascannon 14 times. He caused a single unsaved wound. I think he hit 3 times total.
Major victory.

Round 3
Jawaballs, Razorspam BA, with assault termies in a LR
We set a Skyshield landing pad in the middle of the board and I hid my rhinos and princes behind it. Two squads of oblits on the left, one on the right. I pretty much shot the piss out of him the entire game. He had a single razorback left at the end of the game.
MVP of the game: Oblits that landed 3 plasma cannon hits in a single firing on his recently mobbed up termies. 17 wounds. 0 terminators left alive.
Jawaballs army was beautiful and he was a fantastic opponent.

Round 4
IG, borrowed army from friend (orks played as IG). 3 hydra, manticore, wall-o-chimaeras
And the road down begins.
This guy borrowed an apparently successful army from a friend of his. Orks were troops and he really know what was what. Dude also played with black dice with black pips.
He clustered in the corner, and I scooted up as close as possible on his side. I seized the initiative and he promptly started bitching about "that's crap, I guess player skill doesn't matter in this game,", etc. He also accused me of manipulating my dice after I made a 3-4 smoke cover saves. So I got him back by blowing off the manticore missile launcher on my first shot. That, however, was my last moment of glory as he shot my rides and then my kids as we approached. Oblits were on target but stopped doing damage for the rest of the game. I got both princes to his lines and did some clever tricks with Warptime (intentionally missing on my assault, then killing the squad on his turn), but volume of fire damn near tabled me. He was also pretty fast and loose with movement distances and tried go back and move models on three different occasions. I docked him as much as the sheet would allow on sportsmanship (don't want to play again, didn't move accurately).
He wound up winning....2nd best general, maybe?

Round 5
Alex Fennell, BA
2 land raider redeemers, 1 stock LR, 1 razor back, 2 assault squads, 2 assault termies, mephiston
Alex, of ETC championship fame, was a nice player during the game. He beat a baby seal the whole time, since my oblits f'ing refused to damage his land raiders, even with twin-linked meltas in magic range, and thumping on the outside of it.
I got tabled on the bottom of 6.
Grr.

General Comments
Venue
it was held at a Holiday Inn, (~92/night), and the gaming was in a ballroom in the same building, which was quite convenient.

Registration
$125. I say again.... $125
Held in another room (why??) on Friday and Saturday. Registration closed fairly early Friday considering most people were traveling to get there.
Swag bag consisted of a Mechanicon patch and an utterly useless multi-template. that's it.
The War Store was supposed to be there and provide more swag but their truck broke down en route.

Pairings
They ran the tournament with an outdated version of Tournament Overlord (newer version required a % the house take). First two rounds they advertised to avoid pairing people that arrived/play together. Fine.
On Saturday, they paired people based on Victory Points (0-4000 per game) rather than Battle Points (6-20 per game). The result was that many people who lost their first or second games (but did okay with VP's) played against people that kicked butt and won their previous games.
The real crap happened on Sunday. For some reason, the TO's decided to change the pairings to Battle Points. No explanation was ever provided. They also continued to avoid friends playing each other. On the FINAL round, they continued to avoid pairing people that played together. Friend and I should have played, and Alex and his friend should have played. This is important because if my friend or I did well, one of us could have come in second and received prizes and a NOVA Invitational invite, since players #1 & #2 drew their match. The four of us did in fact approach the TO's about the pairing issue before the final game and were told to play as we were assigned.
Every single round started late, due to them taking forever to generate pairings. The TO's had over an hour and a half to figure out the final pairings. Even with all that time, they still screwed up the my friend and I's pairings, AND they had to move another THREE times due to faulty pairings. The results took well over an hour to figure out, even though people were feeding them the results as they finished their games.

Terrain
Players rolled off and placed terrain before every game. Terrain was generally 15-20% of the board, with a wide variance in types of terrain. This allowed the player that won the terrain roll to place the SkyShield landing pads to suit their army, which was pretty much crap, as that drastically affected many games. Terrain should be placed by TO's. Period.
Tables did have little side board areas that were nice to have for staging your stuff.

Cost
$125 per person for 40k. Yeah, $125. There were 46 40k players present. The room cost $3600 for 3 days. That leaves $2400. The 8-ish TO's had $65 custom Fez hats on. The other room was huge, a complete waste of money and was barely used. I'm wondering where the other $2400 went.

Overall
I'd be pissed if I paid $10 for the level of organization that we saw at the tourny. Paying $125 for that...no thanks.
Without major changes, I'll never return.

Agree 100% on the terrain. My number one gripe the entire tourney was the weird terrain placing. It wasn't a friendly game. TOs should place the terrain and it should never move unless they do it between games. My other gripe about terrain was that much of the tables contained no terrain that blocked any line of sight. In fifth edition, random sparse trees screw Eldar tanks and made me a little sad. It's ok... Vypers make sweet movable terrain.

However, the terrain that was there was very well done. The tables, which I told them in feedback, were beautiful and well constructed. The 2 foot sideboards (although upon hearing about them I was skeptical) were a huge boon and I was thankful for the care taken to make such awesome tables.

The cost didn't really seem very much worth it. Did I have fun? Yep. I had a ton of fun and met a ton of cool people. My first tourney in a really long time (since 3rd edition) and overall I was underwhelmed by the tournament experience. The tournament seemed plagued by hiccups (mentioned in previous post) that really called some of the results into question as well as dispelling some of the hype of 'GRAND'ness many of us were expecting. The friday night fight tourney had the same problem as I played a guy after I lost to Mike C that had massacred his previous opponent.

The players and the matchups made my weekend. Playing Mike C's Mega-dread IA8 list on Friday night, Matt's blob guard and the awesomely beautiful Storm Warden marines were highlights there. Seeing Yermom's daemons in action was also a highlight. (congrats to him on best general).

The swag. Yea, ditto above, but in a geeky way I enjoyed the themed swag even though it was useless. I hate multi-templates and won't use it, but it's a keepsake I guess. The gift bag giving normal plastic templates and plain white dice was a bit meh... anyone in the tourney would have to show up with that anyway (but I lost my scatter die so at least that helped me there)

The bits bag was really weak, but I'm thankful they at least had those fed-ex'd after the WarStore broke down in New York and couldn't make it. $125 had everyone questioning the value of the bag, etc.

I think themed dice would have been more awesome. Everyone uses dice. I liked the Fez(plural?). I really don't care they were 65 bucks too much as it allowed us to easily find a TO type person for questions. Again though, if it came out of the 125... it's just another questionable cost.

Overall: I'd go again, but not at 125. The Friday Night Fight was 15 bucks for 3 games which for 140 made my weekend an 8 game time. Without that, I think the price per game or price for what you get is pretty low on the scale compared to similar venues I've seen advertised.

The price isn't a hit on the team organizing it. The only hits on them were the things with pairings and terrain placement. The scenarios, players, tables, etc were all great.

the terrain was amazing, the people were even better, and I managed to grab 3rd best general with hoard orks. but not army domination for some reason...
I'd love to do it again, but not for $125

The venue was nice, I actually like the hotel restaurant and the downstairs bartenders were nice enough too. The tables were nice...probably a bit too nice...I'm sure that's factored into the price of the tournament but I am not really in a position to complain because I love beautiful terrain and I love well done tables....this tournament definitely had both. It also had ample room! It's nice to not have to rub butts with some large guy through your whole game.

Both of these were minor gripes really and won't keep me from attending again, just something for them to work on for next year.

The pairings on Friday night were wacky but luckily it was a good chance to fix things so that it wouldn't happen on Saturday so no one was really too bent out of shape about that either. Friday night was more about having beer and rolling dice anyways!

Saturday the pairings by VPs were a bit of a disappointment for many though for me it didn't really affect my pairings too much since I was rolling with pretty high VPs (meaning I was going against winners).

On Sunday game 4 was paired correctly and I think we even started on time. The only negative issue on Sunday was how long results took to tally....for those of us with 6+ hours of travel ahead of us it was pretty demoralizing!

Also the quiz seemed like something that should have been timed and not open book and should not have counted towards the overall score. Separate category sure...but not the overall!

Good stuff:
Venue was nice with reasonable rooms.
Restaurant had great deals on breakfast and a decent brunch buffet.
Tables were above and beyond to say the least in both terrain and the sideboard.
Results were posted each round so we could double check the scores and also so we could play endless scenarios in our heads of who we may get paired against : )
The multi template was a nice touch though I probably won't use mine...next year give us a set of 3 mechanicon templates....would be MUCH cooler!
Trophies were great and there were a ton.
Prizes were inconsistent it seemed (value wise) but there were a lot and they were generally cool stuff.
Checklist painting was rather transparent though there were a few shockers in there (there always will be though).
Did I mention the organizers were all personable and nice guys? That means a lot at a tournament like this.

Overall I'd give the tournament another chance but I'd like to see that price come down (drop the side events and the room upstairs maybe?)

NotMatthew,

I agree on the quiz being yonky. I forgot that part. An open book all-day quiz really means nothing except what connections you have. That's not something I want tested at a tourney (even though I roll with a smart-phone).

I think it should be on overall score however. It's a hobby. This hobby is also about playing a game that has a decisive feel to it. Knowing more about the lore and story makes you a better opponent and more fun to talk to and play against. I hope they score it next year but give the players a sheet after lunch, have them sit down next to their opponents and knock it out in 10 minutes .. closed book. Scored or not, test the player, not the phone/ipod/pdf/books/whatever.

I was the purple tyranid player, Casey Christopher.

I think Mat pretty much summed up my feelings rather well. Really nice folks, plenty of room (possibly my number one issue with many tourneys), and a nice venue were very pleasing to me.

I personally would've liked to see static terrain though. Terrain placement turns the tables into relatively boring designs with people obviously shoving terrain into corners and directly in the middle clumped up. I admit I did it myself, but only to the extent I was really just trying desperately to get cover for my 4 big bugs, which was rather hard to find. The tables I played on had few large pieces, with mine and Mat's game being the exception.

My opponent's were super, and I'd like to give out a special thanks to Mat for being a great opponent. That was my best game, and he earned a good win through a rather difficult battle for both of us.

I too would like to see the quiz be apart from the rest of the scoring.

I'm not sure about what was said earlier about not having to play people you traveled with, as I did in the last round... I even specifically asked and they said go ahead, so we did. Not complaining at all, just a note of interest.

The number of people that received prizes was really cool. I was particularly impressed with that.

Congrats to all who placed. Thanks to the organizers for their time and effort in putting it together. Not the best tourney I've ever been to, but I'd say above average.

I'd attend next year.

@Zain: Good to pair a face with a dakka name! Casey right? I can see your point with the quiz...I just happen to be flufftarded so any quiz will put me out of the running : )

@perrin: And you're Casey too! Agreed, that was a hard fought game and had more twists and turns than any other in that tournament. Had the outcome been reversed you would have found yourself on table 1 in round 4 and then who knows what!

@NotMatthew: Yea, I'm glad I got to pair some faces with some names too. Also, it's OK to be 'flufftarded,' even if you aren't, I doubt you could convert today's date to imperial standard in 10 minutes closed book. The questions would invariably be much easier than that.

As an aside, great word usage! =)

I personally had a great time, and have no real complaints, well, other than to agree that while the terrain was gorgeous, I would like to have seen more of it, especially LOS blocking.

Great games against great opponents (even with a hangover)

Ted.

Thanks go out to all our volunteers who worked hundreds of hours for free. They gave up their gaming for months as well as their entire weekend to provide a great event without compensation and even paid for their own Fezzes.

Without all our volunteers and sponsors we could not do something like this.

The names of the 40K Grand Tournament winners are now up on the site. Full Points breakdowns will be up soon as well as tons of fantastic photos.

http://www.themechanicon.com/1/

Now for some of the recent comments. I will not get into long discussions on the boards now as it is now my time to relax. Comments were taken from the attendees and we will consider all of them when we plan for next year.

A couple quick replies -

shrinedawg, first off - welcome to Dakka. If you had looked at the convention agenda, you would see that every round started within a few minutes of the posted times as well as the results being announced.

You are correct that the pairings were not to the liking of some of the players and all made sure to post their comments on the feedback form. Out of the 8 or so that mentioned pairings, some wanted top winners on top winners, some wanted top winners on low winners and almost everyone else had no problem with it. We will listen to the comments sent in.

Terrain covered 25% of the tables, staff ensured this and when they were questioned, they moved all the terrain to a corner and proved it covered 25%. Having Judges placing terrain is an option. The landing pads got the most negative complaints out of all categories of comments (about 15 comments) so they may not return. To allow the internet audience in on the skyshields, there were 5 of them over 35 tables. I am surprised that out of all the comments on the cards, no one specifically mentioned the rivers, there were 7 rivers out of 35 tables and they were new this year. Also the rules pack mentioned that all terrain must be away from the edge of the table. Many players were trying to put pieces on the edge for more shooty lanes and we caught quite a few and corrected them. There were also over 50 large LOS blocking pieces.

Cost? again? We know about how much an event costs - oh and did you notice it was accessible room for a guest in a wheelchair? How many other events even plan that in when considering space and layouts regardless of who is attending or how many event can accommodate a guest that needs assistance? We could fit a lot more tables in but you would not have good emergency egress or accessibility. I am sorry, but the price will not come down to cheat on those areas. Fezzes were bought by club members who gave up their time so you could game. There were over $3000 in prizes handed out as well- with 30 prizes for the 40K GT and not even including a load of trophies.

The other room was only a partial bust. Our main vendor (which had been agreed upon months ago that they would get exclusive vending) had their truck break down on their way. We lost a great sponsor, the players lost a cool part of the event and I am sure The WarStore is not happy to have missed it as well. The Privateer Press events did not get many players but we helped another club get starting running events and that has nothing to do with the 40K event.

The Blood Bowl Tournament in the second room was a smashing success with the Adventurer's Guild Blood Bowl League running their second tournament with us. Once again we are helping other clubs run events at our venue and we will be the clubs attending Cabin Fever and Berks Spring Assault when the other clubs host their own gaming events.

The Charity Auction for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society raised a bunch of money for cancer research and support.

Our first Painting competition was there Saturday night as well as Steve Jackson Games demos all weekend long. All in all it was not too bad up there.


Notmatthew - we heard your comments about your quiz at the event and we went back and checked. You did not answer the same as Alex on one question and he had gotten it correct.

You are correct, the Friday event was about having a beer and playing with lists (IA) that you usually cannot do outside of a club. It was an opportunity for guys to get more games in while we get set for Saturday and we got a chance to give away lots of great loot to the early birds.

There were only a few folks who did not like the pairings, we will look into what might help but once again we are a hobby event. A couple suggestions were a bingo ball dispenser and go full random - Hail Discordia!

Again, the agenda had results set for 5pm and that is when we did them. This allowed players to pack their armies, get some final army photos, grab a bite or drink, hit the bathroom and be back at the end. I am pretty sure all the awards were handed out by 5:20 because we were back at the workshop at 6pm with the last of the supplies to unload.

We will continue to have a quiz and continue with a hobby themed event.

Army domination went to an IG player who was 4/0/1 with more battle and victory points. When you asked, we were in the end of moving all the tables, terrain, computers, supplies etc. out to the workshop.


Thanks again to all the volunteers, sponsors and attendees for helping us have a great event!

I had a "grand" weekend for sure and the tournament was a lot of fun and I hope that the criticism doesn't take away from that fact!

There are pros and cons to every tournament, thanks for taking the time to address some of my comments!

Tironum wrote:There were only a few folks who did not like the pairings, we will look into what might help but once again we are a hobby event. A couple suggestions were a bingo ball dispenser and go full random - Hail Discordia!

I'm probably in a minority on this particular section, but I think that's a splendid idea . No more "table #1"! Just randomness... imho, a great idea given the style of this event!

Cheers for posting and I hope you guys do a concurrent blood bowl event next year, which I would love to attend (as I'm just starting it at this moment, and am somewhat nearby).

As Notmathew said,

It truly was a Grand Tournament, and minor bumps in the road aside, the atmosphere really did remind me of the old BWI GT days.

Friendly games, with lots of laughs were had by all.

Probably not the enviornment for you if you are just in it for the "Power Game" aspect of the hobby, but if you like to play games and hang out with friends from all over the country, this is the perfect setting.

It perfectly suits my gaming style, and I will definately be attending again next year.

I had fun at the tournament but I think it was well overpriced and unorganized for a grand tournament.

I've only been playing for 6 months or so and the Nova Open was my first tournament. Since that's all I have to compare this to, this tournament really made Nova look extremely good.

I was traveling on Friday so I didn't get there by noon to enjoy the Friday night tournement and the only other 40k even was the kill team which the judges in the front of the room couldn't direct me to who to go to for information. So that left me only playing in the main event. For $125, the swag bag was useless and contained more advertisements then actual items.

The tables like everyone said were very well done and the terrain was nice. Another piece at each table would've helped and if they were static that would've been great.

The players were very nice. A couple players pulled a few things on me since I wasn't as experienced but that was the minority.

The pairings were an issue. The point of a swiss style system is that top players play top players. That didn't happen each round on Saturday. On Sunday, they tried to have that happen but when the last round pairings went up, I was the 8th seed playing the 6th. 5th through 8th talked to the judges about it. Not only did they not care, they didn't even try to figure out what was going on even though that was the round that all the prizes came from. I ended up losing in the last round and the person that beat me won the whole event. I'm not saying the results would've been different but the pairing definately should be.

The judges were nice but didn't know the rules as well as I would've thought. They couldn't give references to why a rule was the way it was when they ruled on a scenario. This happened twice and even though 1 time it was in my favor, it didn't seem fair that they couldn't explain why that was the case.

It was nice to have space at a venue but I definately won't be coming back. $125 + hotel costs was far too much for what was given back to the players. Nova put this tournament to shame by comparison. A smaller fee will get more people to come. As it was, only 46 40k players attended the main event and many tables were not even used.

The players made the event fun still and I'm about that.

Different strokes and all that... if a tournament styled like the Nova Open is your preferred format, I could understand why this wouldn't be to your liking.

Other than anecdotal things, it looks like your main complaints are:

1) The cost
2) The pairings... particularly being the 8th seed and playing the 6th (presumably instead of the 7th) seed in the last round

Seeing as how you knew the cost going in and what was being offered, and the pairing was off by 1 position (possibly to avoid having people who travelled together playing together? as it seems they were clear that they would be doing) I don't see that you have very much to complain about...

Not trying to pick a fight here but I hate seeing the "I wouldn't go back" comments on the interenet after an event that it seems everyone had fun at, when one of the principal reasons being mentioned over and over again is cost for what you get, when it seems that that should've been very clear beforehand.

It apears most of the negative posts regarding this event are from the minority of the player base more concerned with trying to "win" the event, as opposed to the majority of the people who were there to have a fun weekend.

I have been going to "Grand" Tournaments for over 10 years (I have the T-shirts to prove it ) and I can honestly say this was either the best, or 2nd best event I have ever been at (Philly Tourney several years ago was a blast). I came to the event with 4 other vetern GT attendees and they concurred with this assessment. We all left the event saying how much of a great time we had and that we will definitely be attending next year.

With regards to price, neither myself nor the people I came with can ever remember paying less than $100 for a GT Tourney, and this goes back 10 years. I cant, nor do I enjoy, trying to play 6-7 games in a single day. I will gladly pay this price for 3 full days of gaming, in a hotel, with a bar and a resturant.

For anyone who has never been to a tourny and is thinking of giving it a try, I highly recommend this event.

The venue was good, the event was well run and everyone I spoke with expressed how much of a good time they had. People need to keep in mind this is not the fooking Olympics, its a room full of grown men moving make believe army men around a table yelling WAAAGH! and "For the Emperor" for cripes sake. Winning the event or placing in the top three isnt going to help you out on a job interview and is definelty not going to help you get a date, its a game. If winning and or having everything run like a swiss watch is so important to you, take up chess, or scrabble.

I dont mean to flame, but the guys who put this together put in a hell of alot of work and I dont think this thread is giving them their due.
I dont know these guys, never met em before this weekend, and I cant tell you their names, but I made sure I went around at the end of the weekend and thanked then for a great time.

Overall it was an excellent event and I am looking forward to next year.

Keith

lets not forget that the warstore was committed to coming and from my understanding they were contributing to the swag bags. unfortunately they had a transmission blow out on the way from long island down to west chester, something that was unforeseeable.

i had a great time and while i did have a few questions as far as how the pairings went, i still had a great time and played some great games.

Wampum, if you dont mind me asking, who/what army did you play against in the final round? as far as i know, Jawaballs won overall and i know who he played in round 5..

orkimedese wrote:It apears most of the negative posts regarding this event are from the minority of the player base more concerned with trying to "win" the event, as opposed to the majority of the people who were there to have a fun weekend.

FWIW I think you are mistaken. I saw plenty of min-maxed armies there that were completely un-fluffy. Don't get me wrong, I had a really good time, but the number of those armies I saw were far more than a "small minority" IMO. If you want to be a "hobby" event, I'd suggest some form of comp to enforce that desire. I know some people don't like it, but frankly it's the only real way to enforce a fun event over a competitive one IMO. Of the five games I played I must confess at least one of them was entirely unenjoyable due to my opponent's army choices.

The pairings issue is entirely valid IMO. The event was advertised to be using Swiss pairing and that did not happen, at least until Sunday anyway. Tournaments should not advertise one thing and do another.

As for the terrain issue, I too noticed players moving pieces out of the way to insure lots of LoS and little cover. Sorry, the tables may have had "25%" terrain, but what was there was often not very useful for cover or anything else. The little collections of walls, etc. are a prime example. Suffice to say the least enjoyable part of the event was IMO the terrain. Either it wasn't all that useful or it got moved out of the way. In short, if you weren't shooty Guard or some such then the terrain was effectively against you. This is the first tournament I have been to where players were allowed to move it around and I have been attending tournaments around the world since the mid 90's. I would personally never implement this kind of system in an event for all the reasons people have already mentioned. While I liked this event I don't know that I would return as long as you retain this mechanism as it is entirely too abusable. Even fun players are apt to try and place it to their advantage since it's just human nature to do so.

I like the quiz thing, but having it be open book for so long only served to prove who had internet access on their phones and who didn't. It certainly didn't test anyone's "knowledge" of the 40K universe. If you are going to do a quiz, set a time and a time limit, say 10 minutes for completion and make it memory only.

I do think $125 was a bit steep for this event.

I also think holding the scenarios until the actual round was entirely unjustified. Even fun players want to be able to know what they are getting into. I play a very fluffy list and frankly, had I known what they were I would have brought an entirely different army. While I would recommend Mechanicon to others, I don't know if I will attend another event that hides their scenarios until the last minute. Sorry, but I think players should be able to at least see what they are getting into before they attend. This and the terrain issue were the only truly negative elements of the event IMO.

Good things:

1. The quiz. I just wish it had actually been implemented better.

2. The prizes. Very well done and a lot of cool variety.

3. The awards. Very cool, though I've never been keen on the Army Domination ones since if you play one of the unpopular armies you are likely to win an award even if you lose all your games. Just my opinion though.

4. The venue. Lots of room to play was awesome and the extra space for models on the tables was way cool. Very few events have the space to do that and it's one element I really liked.

5. The hotel was nice, though not spectacular. Very good breakfast buffet though.

6. Staff were friendly (even if the fez's were a bit goofy) and helpful. Thanks to everyone who helped putting this on.

7. My opponents were fun and enjoyable to play, particularly my first game which was against Alex Cauldwell (Ultramarines). Outstanding opponent, really good player and a beautiful army. All I could ever ask from a game really. Thanks mate!

Dislikes:

1. the fact that I had a headache all of Saturday :-(. Thankfully four Ibuprofen and two aspirin that night killed it.

2. No place to buy superglue at the event :-).

Cheers, Gary

silashand wrote:

orkimedese wrote:It apears most of the negative posts regarding this event are from the minority of the player base more concerned with trying to "win" the event, as opposed to the majority of the people who were there to have a fun weekend.

FWIW I think you are mistaken. I saw plenty of min-maxed armies there that were completely un-fluffy. Don't get me wrong, I had a really good time, but the number of those armies I saw were far more than a "small minority" IMO.

From what I can tell, silashand, orkimedese was referring to the attitude of most of the players (there to have a good time playing)... not army composition. People commonly bring min/maxxed lists to any tournament regardless...

Obviously, I wasn't there... I just think it's a shame that in one breath many of the posters in this thread could mention "everyone had a great time" and in the next slam the event and say they wouldn't come next year.

It does seem like most people had a great time... and if people really want to give constructive feedback, I'm sure there are better methods than posting them here. Not that people shouldn't share their experiences- it's just that there's a way to do it that I am sure would be more beneficial to those who worked so hard on this event and actually give better results.

Pairings were definitely messed up for the 5th round, not just "not to the likings of some of the players". At least at the 3rd and 4th tables for the 5th through 8th ranked players in the final round. The player standings through four rounds were posted, so I took it to one of the staff and asked what was going on. The answer I received from the guy on the computer that was posting scores, etc, was that the 5th and 6th ranked players were buddies that had travelled together so the pairings were changed so that they wouldn't have to play each other. This also slpit up the 7th/8th pairing, who had also travelled together. Now to split buddies is fine for the first round, even the second round of a longer tourney. But regardless, you do not alter pairings in the final round based on buddies, club affiliations, etc. You rack them and stack them and they play whoever they draw. Basically, what it did is screw one of the 7th/8th players out of a chance for a prize, expecially when you consider that 5th and 6th both won something, but if they had faced each other, one might have lost and been bumped down in the standings. Whereas one of the 7th/8th players might have won and moved up in the standings, garnering a prize. Course, they could have all played to draws (as the top table did) and really changed the course of the standings.

Timeliness. Sorry Tony, but at least one round started a half an hour late. After a 1 1/2 hour lunch break.

I would also prefer set terrain, even tho I'm one of those IG players that will try to build my little castle when given the option. Witht he sideboard areas, there's no excuse for the terrain not to be set and left. Lots of room to display armies for painting, between games, etc.

With that out of the way, all in all, I had a good time. Saw some friends I haven't seen in a while, hopefully made some new ones, got in five good games, even with getting my butt beat down in two games. (I'll get you next time, Nick!!) The tables were very nice, but I also felt unsatisfied with the terrain gamewise. Just one of those things.

Finally, how to say this. I don't know if some players just didn't know the rules that well or were taking advantage of newer players. I goofed on something in my last game and have already sent Tony an email about it. So Bill McFaddon, if you're out there, consider our game a victory for you, which is what I've asked Tony to do as well. To some of the others out there, here's some rules for you to think about (not from my games).
Death or Glory attacks are resolved against Front Armor.
If Straken fails to stop a Tank Shock with a DoG, he is removed from the table. He doesn't just take a wound or pass it to a bodyguard. He's gone.
It is permissable to measure movement, and even if you measure the full 24" that a fast skimmer can move, you can move any portion of it or not move at all.

RiTides wrote:orkimedese was referring to the attitude of most of the players (there to have a good time playing)... not army composition. People commonly bring min/maxxed lists to any tournament regardless...

Hmmm... hadn't thought of it that way. However, the response posted by one of the staff indicated they considered theirs a "fun" tournament which to me would include comp, but no worries.

Obviously, I wasn't there... I just think it's a shame that in one breath many of the posters in this thread could mention "everyone had a great time" and in the next slam the event and say they wouldn't come next year.

I'm not slamming the event at all and I did have a great time. However, there are certain things I require in order to actually return and the two of them I mentioned (static/more useful terrain and pre-posted scenarios) are IMO absolutely necessary if you want good players to attend. This goes regardless whether the event is primarily a "fun" or "competitive" one. JMO though.

Cheers, Gary

Don,

Thanks for owning up to that mistake. I made a few mistakes in games myself. Thankfully it was usually just forgetting to do the Guide psyker test every turn BEFORE moving, which usually my opponents were amiable about the first time at least.

The skimmer movement thing is a bit cheezy if you use it quite obviously to gain advantage outside of movement (ie measuring relative charge ranges, etc) but as long as it's exactly what you describe it's fine. I think someone would just take a hit in sportsmanship if it was an obvious thing.

As to the pairings and the comment that we shouldn't complain and have a great time in the same breath... 1) you can have fun but decide something isn't worth what you paid to have that fun. 2) you can also know that there 'will be a swag bag' or 'prizes' or 'swiss pairing,' paying for all that while betting 'on the coming' as it were and still be disappointed. You never expect anything sub-par or with hiccups when paying.

I, as I said, probably would go back if the price were lowered a bit next year. Again, that's not a hit on the guys running it as they were all personable. I can only go to 1-2 of these things per year, that's why cost is such a big deal. I can pay 50(ish) per tourney for 2 tournaments or put my eggs into the Mechanicon basket for over twice that. I did get a prize for Sportsmanship on Friday Night Fight's tournament and I'm quite proud. I had a great time, but I can't afford how much I spent at that tourney and still get to go to anything else during the year. Since I don't plan on going to anything until Nova Open next year, it's not a huge deal this time... but next year is a different deal. Criticism from what I've seen has all been good-natured and everyone had a great time. I challenge Tony and the TO's to take the criticism in that vein. Lowering the cost to run the tourney might be an option to get more people to attend and fill all the tables. Or, make it more exclusive and ignore people's input on cost as overblown. The tournament prizes were great, but there were some areas that could have been slimmed with very little to no impact on the overall tournament feel. The bitsbags, multi-templates, templates, dice, sponsor bags, advertisements, etc could have been changed to a few custom Mechanicon dice and I would have been ecstatic for example. The cost of running extra events that no one signed up for was a problem as well. (It's a darn shame..) No one really played BFG (like 2 people) and the steamroller events were relatively vacant. Essentially it was a 40k tourney, not a Con. The painting events, auctions, etc could have been done in the main ballroom with little to no impact on the games.

These are all just thoughts obviously. All anyone was saying about the cost is that the return needs to be obvious, and when you charge that much people will instantly question baubles they feel they wouldn't use. It's a product of the economy and how people feel about the expense of the hobby.

Make the swag bags a little more interesting, themed swag more useful, and I think people would have largely not been bothered by cost in the long run except those directly affected by pairing issues late tourney.

Ztryder wrote:lets not forget that the warstore was committed to coming and from my understanding they were contributing to the swag bags. unfortunately they had a transmission blow out on the way from long island down to west chester, something that was unforeseeable.

i had a great time and while i did have a few questions as far as how the pairings went, i still had a great time and played some great games.

Wampum, if you dont mind me asking, who/what army did you play against in the final round? as far as i know, Jawaballs won overall and i know who he played in round 5..

It was actually me who played Jawaballs in round 5 and the awsomeness of my dice rolls handed him a 20 pt victory, and the overall Tourny Victory

Going into round 5, I was 15th place, Jawa was 16th.
Never met Jawa before, was the first time meeting him or seeing his army.
I played shooty guard with an Inquisitor element, he played shoot BA.
Overall I felt we had an excellent game and he was a fun / fair opponent.
The way the armies matched up, if a few things go my way I could have beaten his army, they did not and he tabled me.
1st round of shooting, Jawa went first and didnt do much, on my turn I hit and penetrated all but 2 of his vehicles, I didnt roll higher than a 2 on the damage rolls....
Jawa adjusted, realized he couldnt outshoot me so he stormed across the table and had the BA do what they do best, chop me to pieces....
It didnt go my way, but Jawa was a good opponent and he played well.
FYI, I am the guy mentioned above who's Pask/Vanquisher shot 14 times in game 2 and missed 12 times...
Jawa went to #1, I fell to #31.

Great weekend and I will be back next year.

Ork, my question about who wampum was playing was because i knew beyond a shadow of a doubt he wasnt the one who played Jawa in round five. I was wondering who he played. I assume he played against the demon army that came away with best general otherwise his comment about getting beat in round five by the person that won the whole event was wrong.

shrinedawg wrote:
Registration
Cost
$125 per person for 40k. Yeah, $125. There were 46 40k players present. The room cost $3600 for 3 days. That leaves $2400. The 8-ish TO's had $65 custom Fez hats on. The other room was huge, a complete waste of money and was barely used. I'm wondering where the other $2400 went.

I'd guess that it went into their respective bank accounts to make boat payments and what not. Who said putting on a tournament was a non-profit affair?

I don't think that's a fair assessment. The guys there definitely weren't trying to line pockets. The knocks on cost weren't due to perceived greed at all. The prizes for the events were generous.

As has been posted, they each even paid for their own (rather expensive) hats to stand out so that people could find them. No profiteering conspiracy going on here... and no reason to throw that accusation out there without good reason, either.

olympia wrote:I'd guess that it went into their respective bank accounts to make boat payments and what not. Who said putting on a tournament was a non-profit affair?

And you're wrong.

Hotel costs have skyrocketed in the last 5 years. I personally have looked at the rates at the hotel Mechanicon used, and 30 others around Philadelphia. Huge increases in renting them out, especially if you aren't a wedding ordering 10k in catering. One place I called sounded 'reasonable' at only 5k for the weekend. I figured 100 people, 60.00 each, and I could just do it. "And what catering do you need?" Uh, no catering maam, gaming tournement. But 100 guys will be eating in your resturant 2 times a day, probably. "OH, so Sorry, then it's 10k for the weekend".

Mechanicon lost a lot of money the first year, paying for tables and scenery. I hope that they broke even this year. They are not putting anything in their pockets, and put in 100's of hours of work into the event. I saw the guys looking like zombies the week before, getting 4 hours sleep a night, and running by my shop to pick up flocking, prizes and other things to get ready for the tourney. They were working their asses off.

Any accusation of them running it for a profit is dead wrong. As pretty much is an accusation about anyone trying to run GT's. Hell, you can make a ton more money putting those hours in at a Mcdonalds.

MC is correct. There's no real money in tournament organization; maybe when you get to 1000+ attendees a year you'll make a few grand to put into future years and keep the thing improving, but it's not a major money maker, and frankly ... sacrificing the integrity of your event for $1000-$2000 split 6-7 ways? If that much money matters at all to you, stop running tournaments. You better have at least some PERSONAL financial depth and free spending money to run one of these in the first place, b/c you're going to dig into it instead of that next video game or 40k army.

Negotiation, and working prices down is key - you don't want to charge your attendees more than they can afford, or more than is fair, but to presume no matter WHAT is charged that us organizer types come home with a fat wad of dough is absurd.

Mike - regarding hotels, maybe we can share notes; we've been able to get pretty good rates in comparison to the ones you mention, at pretty "fancy" spots in the middle of DC ... and without catering; maybe a few lessons learned exchanges or something will help all of us TO's.

For ANYONE thinking of running an event - your room block is the biggest leverage point, and knowing the right time of year; hotels make almost no profit off their ballrooms, and they make relatively minor profits off food sales ... in comparison to their margins on guest rooms. That's the real kicker - the more people you can get to stay at the hotel, the better off you are ... get ENOUGH rooms filled, and you get your event space for free, even tens of thousands of square feet of it. Course, the corollary is also true - if you don't meet the room block limits, you pay out the bum.

Mechanicon is designed as a smaller, more unique and "grand" affair, where it doesn't drag in hundreds of attendees ... and focuses on really nice tables / side boards / space for those they do make room for. As such, they aren't likely to fill a huge hotel block, and so probably have to pay out the rear for their event space ... cut 'em some slack, or know the facts next time you want to expound on the boat-payments of a TO and his staff.

+1 Mikhaila and MVB

Which is why it is critical to the event to stay at the venue whenever possible.

Having been through a number of hotel negotiations over the past 9 years it varies a great deal. Time of year, area, etc..can change things dramatically. Most of this space is used by businesses doing training orholding corporate meetings, folks weddings, and large catered events. When the economic times depress the market for corporate activity hotels are hungry and will be flexible.

Main issue is that for our types of events we require a great deal of floor space per person compared to most other shindigs.

Just watch out for the AV charges, or if the hotel requires electrical outlets and whatnot to be turned on at $75.00 a pop : )

Why is it an "accusation" to suggest that a TO might turn a profit (modest perhaps) on an event?

olympia wrote:Why is it an "accusation" to suggest that a TO might turn a profit (modest perhaps) on an event?

I think it was the tone more than anything ("to make boat payments and what not"). It might've come across in a way other than you intended, but I would think that most TOs would take exception to that (as clearly mikhaila and MVBrandt did above). If there is any surplus after all the costs, prizes, etc., it would usually be put back into the next year's event, as MVB said. Anyone doing this to make money would have to be crazy...

olympia wrote:Why is it an "accusation" to suggest that a TO might turn a profit (modest perhaps) on an event?

The way you said it?) Absolutely an accusation. Although knowing your history of snide remarks in general I guess people might cut you some slack.

MVB- d
Definitely don't mind sharing some notes. Partly what Tony is dealing with at Mechanicon, and what I found when I did research in the last few years, is mostly regional. Hotels and event space are booked solid for weddings and other receptions. Not enough space in this region for the load, and they are making a ton of money. Several that used to rent space for comic book, gaming, or hobby conventions now have a set rule of "no catering = no rental". Didn't help that a couple of the large halls in the area that were used for years got torn down. Which is why Philcon is in NJ after being in downtown Philly for 60 years.(

Getting the door slammed in my face did give me incentive to cut a deal with the mall for a permanent space for our bunker though, so something good came out of it. We can only go to 50-80 people though. So if we want to throw a big yearly event, it's going to be back to looking for space, and any advice on room blocks or negotiation is welcome.

I prefer snideness to hypocrisy and feigned moral indignation.

I would think folks in general would consistently try and improve their failings, not embrace them as "superior" to someone else's.

Thief in prison for 20 years proclaiming "LEAST I AIN'T KILLD NO ONE, SHEEEE."

Let's not piss fest this too much, eh? There was a lot of critique of the $125 price tag for a 40-some person GT ... and Tony did his best to explain why it cost what it did. Honest truth of the matter is the more people you have attending, the cheaper it gets; there's a transition point where it becomes finicky, and they're at it ... cut 'em some slack, and avoid comments that are EASILY misinterpreted (although I suspect you rather intended the biting tone) such as suggesting the money was being pocketed and used to pay for their boats.

MVBrandt wrote:Let's not piss fest this too much, eh?

This is a really good point. The discussion here needs to be somewhat more respectful.

End of the day, I think that the vast majority of people had a good time, the guys hosting worked hard, and it will be an even better show next year.

Yea, I hope there are more players next year to fill up all the tables and perhaps close some of the price gap. As I said earlier, leaner and more useful swag could lower some of that cost as well. I know I did like the venue - even the restaurant was decent inside the hotel (and trust me, I tried the local fare outside and it was pretty lame comparatively).

One thing that was said earlier about the tables being a lot of the cost, I'm sure is true. They made a load of beautiful tables that can be used in subsequent events (Tony and crew can be very proud of that as I'm sure they are).

As for the regional thing, It's really sad that's the case as you and I discussed during our Friday game. I mentioned that if NOVA can be in an expensive area, etc for a lower cost per ticket, then they should compare notes to see if there are places where lessons learned can help negotiate. I'm glad MVBrant's offered that.

The problem is that there are lots of venues available in this area (northern virginia / southern maryland) so it's easier to drive a price down.

I'll most likely be attending this event next year (probably for the blood bowl / odd events on the side, rather than the 40k tournament) for what it's worth!

Not wishing to dig up this thread again, but does anyone have the full results yet?

Cheers.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen them pop up yet. Nothing's been posted on the Mechanicon site since the tournament was over except to say that it was over and some kudos and stuff. They say they'll be posting lots of stuff, but nothing yet.