I don't think Canis is that bad, nobody is just using him in a correct way IMHO.

Most of the times when I see Canis used, they put him with some TWC that has a Thunder Hammer and a few Storm Shields and then go Monster/Tank Hunting.

What he is for is Hoards, Orks, Nids and such, much like Flamer armed Bikes. Him a few TWC or Fenrisian Wolves have a good chance of just crush large hordes of infantry.

You can take him his two wolves and a 15 model Fenrisian Wolf Pack and give him a total of 20 wounds. Once you impact you can get close to 80+ Attacks.

So he does not have an Invulnerable Save, 98% of the models out there don’t have a Invulnerable Save.
So he does not have Eternal Warrior, 98% of the models out there don’t have a Eternal Warrior.

If you have Experiences with him let us know.

Let’s try to keep this friendly.

He blows, and the model looks like he is riding a giant freaking cat.... Ugly.

I have bad experiences on the recieving side of him...
I was playing a friends 'nids for a turn or 2 while he was going to the toilet he managed to get into CC and ripped apart a 20-strong unit of Hormagaunts, poor bio-engineered sods, he then went on to get killed by a very upset mummy Hive Tyrant, but still 1 turn of CC and 1 squad/brood/whatever gone and that was him on his own.

His model is very goofy. It's better to spend the extra 15 points and make a Wolf Lord with a belt of Russ, two claws, and a thudnerwolf. Give him saga of the beastslayer and then go monster hunting.

Personally I think the model is hilarious and use it somewhat often with my Wolves.

You mean beside all the rules ha has that does nothing(or at least are "foggy" as to what they do)?

That would be the fact that your proposed unit is now a Troops Choice and Can never Score(supernumery)

And the Wrath of the savage requires that he get into Base-to-base with more than 5 models to be of any use; which can and should be very difficult unless you are running him solo.

Then you get into the whole Fangir issue where you are essentially paying points for a piece of wargear that does not tell you what it does(I hate that; Fangir improves his profile but we have no idea how)

Next you have his "rending' special rule; what the crap does that even mean? Rending is a weapon ability; at least with the TWC they say Rending(close combat only) which can lead us to assume they mean their attacks in CC gain the rending special rule.

Finally there is the lord of the Wolfkin and Saga of the Wolfkin; I5 and Ld7(8 within 12' of Canis) Is not that great when those Wolves are non-scoring troops(and just a +1Ld is not great either)

Kommissar Kel wrote:You mean beside all the rules ha has that does nothing(or at least are "foggy" as to what they do)?

That would be the fact that your proposed unit is now a Troops Choice and Can never Score(supernumery)

So they Don’t Score…So What, they are cheep an effective in close combat and they still can contest. If you need to Score get tom Grey Hunters and Blood Claws.

And the Wrath of the savage requires that he get into Base-to-base with more than 5 models to be of any use; which can and should be very difficult unless you are running him solo.

And when it does happen you Crush Units.

Then you get into the whole Fangir issue where you are essentially paying points for a piece of wargear that does not tell you what it does(I hate that; Fangir improves his profile but we have no idea how)

I believe they are already included.

Next you have his "rending' special rule; what the crap does that even mean? Rending is a weapon ability; at least with the TWC they say Rending(close combat only) which can lead us to assume they mean their attacks in CC gain the rending special rule.

Concidering he has no ranged weapons so it and he has no other weapon I think that answers its own question.

Finally there is the lord of the Wolfkin and Saga of the Wolfkin; I5 and Ld7(8 within 12' of Canis) Is not that great when those Wolves are non-scoring troops(and just a +1Ld is not great either)

See my Above Statement


I am not saying you can’t build a better Wolf Lord, What I am saying is he can still be uesfull.

I am also not judging the Model, I am sure there can be better made.

Hail!

Personally, I think that Canis is a very useful model. Granted, he has his weaknesses, but for what, 180 points (codex isn't in front of me) he is a fine Special character for the Sons of Russ.

I usually take him with a squad of 15 Fenrisian Wolves and keep him in cover to ensure he gets in to close combat.
His Lord of the Wolfkin makes your 8 point wolves very effective MEQ killers at I5, that is if you are careful and keep them safe from, well... any sort of fire X_x''''

I think its an awesome model, and I think he is a VERY much needed breath of fresh air for most Space Wolves armies. He's a very risk/reward type model, and I think that taking that risk is why we are drawn to play Space Wolves!

Praise Russ and the Allfather!

I have never experienced anything close to a hard time shooting him off the board, without EW or an inv save, there is the problem.

In fact, i'm pretty sure a tactical squad with a PFist would have a good chance at taking that squad you mentioned down, given cover and some upgrades.

I hate him for two reasons.

First, the wolf he's riding is an ugly son of a bitch that looks like it's been eating paint chips.

Second, "Canis Wolfborn" is a perfect example of the reviled "Wolf Wolferson" school of naming.

AlexHolker wrote:I hate him for two reasons.

First, the wolf he's riding is an ugly son of a bitch that looks like it's been eating paint chips.

Second, "Canis Wolfborn" is a perfect example of the reviled "Wolf Wolferson" school of naming.

This is why I hate him.

I've never even seen him on the tabletop.

I think the OP is speaking of Canis' rules, not his silly name or model.

Canis is a bargain special that is cheaper than taking a Wolf Lord with the same setup. Additionally, he allows you to have 8pt I5 2A S4 models, which isn't too shabby.

I am not sure running him in a SS TWC unit is ideal- as pointed out fenrisan wolves work just fine as a meat shield. If you need to maximize attacks from his special rule, just just leave during the movement phase and assault.

As to EW, he is T5, so unless you are packing S10, no worries. A S8 PFist won't do it. And a tactical squad will get butchered unless it is in cover. As will most things. On his own, he is throwing out, what, 6 S5 PW attacks hitting on 3s with reroll hit or damage? With a unit of 10 wolves that is 30 more S4 attacks on I5. Not too horrible.

Beastslayer is cool, too. But in my area, I see *alot* more IG and SMs than MCs. So it varies.

@Anpu42:

So they Don’t Score…So What, they are cheep an effective in close combat and they still can contest. If you need to Score get tom Grey Hunters and Blood Claws.

Which is a problem for some people. Why give him a crazy useless ability...that seems like a signature ability of his? Do you really want that many FA slots available? If you are then you are prob. not gonna have enough points to hit a critical mass of Grey Hunters.

And when it does happen you Crush Units.

Which is a problem as his output is dependent on him running solo and solo characters are not hard to kill. Which ends up he's a fire and forget model (which is not everyone's cup of tea).

Concidering he has no ranged weapons so it and he has no other weapon I think that answers its own question.

I think you may have missed the point, he has a Pair of Lightning claws that by RAW overrides having rending....and thus another useless rule attached to him.

All in all, I will third AlexHolker's post.
"Yo, What Up Dawg. I heard you like wolves. So we put a wolf on a wolf so you can wolf while you are wolfing."

Cue inspiring picture from the next poster to match quote

180 points (IIRC) is a very expensive FaF model.

I mean, I worry about my suicide Shas'el at 77 points. I can't imagine paying 180 points for similar.

Actually he is Dirt Cheep [points wise]

Wolf Lord in Power Armor 215 points (Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; Thunderwolf Mount; Wolf Claw x2, Saga of the Wolfkin)

Canis Wolfborn @ 185 pts (Power Armor; Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; 2x Wolf Claws, Lord of the Wolfkin; Rending; Wrath of the Savage; Saga of the Wolfkin)

This is the only way to make a more Killy Unit

Iron Priest @ 170 pts (Runic Armor; Servo Arm; Thunderwolf Mount; Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; Thunder Hammer; Bolt Pistol)
-4x Cyberwolf

As far as the Rending, If you want argue that it says he has the Special Rule: Rending with no further explanation
So do Assault Cannons it just says Heavy 4, Rending, with further explanation.

To me and many others that seem very clear.

To me it looks like the argument If a IC joins a unit it looses its “Special Rule: Infiltration” even if the IC has the Infiltration Rule because he joined the unit.

Lets try this
-In his profile it says he has Rending.
-He has Wolf Claws which he can not choose not to use.
-He has Rending which he can not choose not to use.
Therefore He must rend with his attacks he does not have an option to not use it so to deny him his rending is against RAW.

There is also precedence for Rending Special Power Weapons out there, Shrike’s “The Raven’s Talons” is just one of them, so Rending Power Weapons out there.

How exactly is 185 points for an HQ with Canis's capabilities anything approaching "Cheep[sic]"?

I find Canis is too fragile from a Leadership perspective, especially to tank shocks!! LD 8 is not high enough to reliably hold him even with a big mob of F-Wolves in tow. And once he breaks that rearmoist F-Wolf that is at the back of the pack makes a 3D6" beeline for the board edge.

Er... he just did Saint, 30 points cheaper than an eqivalent wolf lord with his extras, seems like a pretty good discount to me.

SaintHazard wrote:How exactly is 185 points for an HQ with Canis's capabilities anything approaching "Cheep[sic]"?

How many SW HQ units have you Build?

Ther than the Runic Priest and the Wolf Priest you are looking at spending at 120+ points to come up with anthing good, unless you are using Wolf Guard Battle Leaders. A Wolf Lord with just a Power Weapon and a Belt of Russ is 140 and the Saga of the Bear will make it 175. With just a Thunder Wolf Mount only he is going to run you 145 points.

Jesus riding an obese squirrel.

Of course there are

Anpu - sorry, RAW Canis rending does NOTHING as it does not "stack" with the Wolf claws. Have a look at the SW FAQ hich answers what happens with TWC and special weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Anpu - sorry, RAW Canis rending does NOTHING as it does not "stack" with the Wolf claws. Have a look at the SW FAQ hich answers what happens with TWC and special weapons.

Then why is his Rending Rule Written Different than the entry for Thunder Wolf Cavalry?

Canis: Rending [In both the Description and Army List]
Thunder Wolf Cavalry: Rending (Close Combat Only) [In both the Description and Army List]

2 things about the Rending:

Anpu; you said the asscannon rending does nothing that is not true; rending is a weapon quality. It is found as a rule in the Special weapon rules of the brb as it effects attacks made with certain weapons.

and

A character with the Special rule: rending does nothing at all, because a character is not a weapon. Further on this look to both the TWM entry and the MoW entry; TWM says the model "has the rending special rule in close combat with any attack that does not use a special weapon". MoW says: "A model bearing the mark of the wulfen has the rending special rule in close combat." Both of these entries clearly state that the models with said wargear gain rending on close combat attacks.

TWC implies the same thing(and the FAQ ignores the fact that they are not on TWM; arbitrarily applying a restriction for mounts to a unit that does not have them).

Then the FAQ is Silent about Canis; so either the rule does nothing, we take the Logical leap that his Wolf Claws gain the rending rule in close combat(again he is not mounted on a thunderwolf mount, fangir's entry is pure fluff); or we again arbitrarily apply the Mount's restriction like GW did and he now has a special rule that does nothing at all(being negated by special weapons).

Then how does he use his Special Ability: Rending?

Is it a Typo or a Non-existant Rule?

Canis doesn't suck, but he should've been a TWC upgrade character instead of an HQ choice. Leadership 8 with no invulnerable save doesn't help his cause either.

gojira316 wrote:Canis doesn't suck, but he should've been a TWC upgrade character instead of an HQ choice. Leadership 8 with no invulnerable save doesn't help his cause either.

I do agree that he would have made a good Upgrade, I had not thought about that.

So he does not have an Invulnerable Save, 98% of the models out there don’t have a Invulnerable Save. Other than the Obvios reasons, why is that so important?

Anpu42 wrote:

gojira316 wrote:Canis doesn't suck, but he should've been a TWC upgrade character instead of an HQ choice. Leadership 8 with no invulnerable save doesn't help his cause either.

I do agree that he would have made a good Upgrade, I had not thought about that.

So he does not have an Invulnerable Save, 98% of the models out there don’t have a Invulnerable Save. Other than the Obvios reasons, why is that so important?

Most Spess Mehreen HQs have some sort of invuln save or another.

Captains and Chapter Masters have Iron Halos, Chaplains have Rosarii, Librarians can take TDA, etc.

A Spess Mehreen HQ with no invuln save is railgun fodder.

I guess I did not put that the right way

Odds are you are not going to run him by himself.
Either he will have a Bunch of Wolves to Soak up wound or 2-5 other TWC, sone with Storm Shields.

That is were His Invunrable Save Comes from, So with that...
Why does "HE" need an Invunrable Save

How often do you run Captains, Chapter Masters, Librarians, and Chaplains on their own?

It really doesn't matter if you're running the HQ with a unit or solo, a 185 point unit with no invuln save is, again, railgun fodder.

To summarize:

1d4chan wrote:Canis Wolfborn: Yes, his name really is "Wolf Wolfborn". He also dual-wields Wolf claws (a weapon unique to the Space Wolves) while riding a gigantic thunder Wolf , and wearing a Wolf tail talisman, and a Wolftooth necklace. He may also be accompanied by up to 2 Fenrisian Wolves. He is marked with the Saga of the Wolfkin (Notice a pattern yet?) and is responsible for at least 80% of the Space Wolf rage threads on /tg/. He's quite nasty in hand-to-hand combat (for his point cost) and has an interesting special rule: Lord of the Wolfkin - This rule allows all units of Wolves within 12" to use Canis' leadership.

Honestly I don't know Space Wolves but I saw the thread name and I could not resist, sorry.

We call him anus wolfporn. Pretty ugly model, all the TWC's around here are Resin casts from third parties.

How have we gone this far in a Canis-bashing thread (which, don't kid yourselves, this thread is) without posting a picture of the damage itself?



By the beard of Kahless, that's an ugly model.

He's not too bad, if you like fen wolves, and he chews trough orkses...

I like one of the Nicknames

Canis Wolfborn and Snowflake

Actualy he can be realy Deadly, think about all of the Lead bouncing off your opponents head

Anpu42 wrote:Then how does he use his Special Ability: Rending?

Is it a Typo or a Non-existant Rule?

Basically a non-existent rule; I am sure the Author did intend for him to rend in Close combat with his wolf Claws, but unfortunately between not knowing how to convey this, and then the further muddling of the TWC ruling in the FAQ... it leads us to believe that it can never do anything at all.

[I am secretly enjoing this]
{Let me Utter thisi curse Word}
Logicaly If a rule listed he must be RAW, and by that he should have rending.

Now as for RAI, I think he was ment to have them like Shrike, mabye this is why he has no Invunrable Save?

No, the special rule "rending' does not exist by itself. It only exists as a special CCW.

But he already has a special CCW, and absent a RULE stating he gets BOTH wolf claws and rending, he does not.

RAW he only gets wolf claws. That's it.

Ok we have spend half a page going around in circles on the Rending Rule screw up.

I was wondering what works better

Thunder Wolf Cavalry Body Guard

Fenrisin Wolf Body Guard.

As a unit, Canis is good. As you said, he's perfect for hunting hordes and large or elite units, not fighting tanks (although he still could). As a unit, Canis is a killing machine! However, he doesn't have some of the force-multiplier effects that some of the other characters (eg. Logan) have and he is by no means the best.

And as a model, Canis is just too damn ugly!


Rules-wise he's good, but can be out-done. Combine this with an over-priced, ugly model and it should help explain his [lack of] popularity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and Fenris wolf body guard works better and suits his role of hunting infantry, TWC are better independently as they are their own threat and possess much more flexibility.

Canis makes Fenrisian Wolves a unit, he's just an unnecessary add-on to TWC IMHO.

Use him with Fen wolves- that's what his rules imply he does. Also on the rending, I belive the FAQ says he does not get it... Sad...

But my interpretation is this: His rending is a seperate rule, there fore he gets it. Fenrir (TWM) conveys rending ONLY on regular CCW. This is included in the rules for TWMs, so wouldn't it be redundant to put rending twice unless he was to have it all the time?

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:Use him with Fen wolves- that's what his rules imply he does. Also on the rending, I belive the FAQ says he does not get it... Sad...

But my interpretation is this: His rending is a seperate rule, there fore he gets it. Fenrir (TWM) conveys rending ONLY on regular CCW. This is included in the rules for TWMs, so wouldn't it be redundant to put rending twice unless he was to have it all the time?

Fenrir is not a TWM.

Fenrir has 1 line of actual rules(and that line still does not tell you what exactly it does). That is the line telling you that Fenrir increases the profile for Canis(but does not tell you what those profile increases were, just that they have already been applied).

The entirety of listing Fenrir as a piece of wargear was completely pointless; Canis is a Cavalry model with the given statline, no further explanation about how his "profile is increased" was necessary.

Several of Canis's Rules are there to justify his cost, and it seems like the author looked at the stats and the abilities, and then looked at the cost and thought: "maybe i need to give him a reason for the cost and stats, I'll add that his mount gives him a stat boost!", but then never told us what his unmounted stats were.

Dang... thought I was on to something... Curse you Kel, for being right (As always... )!

What's wrong with it?! I would be embarrassed to field a model that stoopid looking.

A Wolf Guard Battle Leader with his equipment is 185 points and Canis has an extra wound, two extra attacks, and a couple of special rules in addition.

He's reasonable value, just an ugly model.

SaintHazard wrote:How have we gone this far in a Canis-bashing thread (which, don't kid yourselves, this thread is) without posting a picture of the damage itself?



By the beard of Kahless, that's an ugly model.

Does anyone else think it would be awesome to paint him red and white, put him in a sleigh and put a sack full of toys over his shoulder?

You mean something like this http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=187940?

Canis is by far one of the cheapest Lawn mowers that Space Wolves put out and offers a lot of possibilities that many people discount without much reason. I run Canis with 2 other Wolf Lords and 15 Fenrisian Wolves in what I like to call the Wolf Lord Horde. Basically, you have 18 Models that are Initiative 5 running across the field and shredding anything they touch. What's really cool? During Dawn of War, dropping Canis and the Fenrisian Wolves out at the halfway point in the middle of the board for deployment...usually throw people for a loop because many know they can just shoot it to death; however, I have just split their army in the perfect way for the rest of my army to only have to fight about half of the army for most of the game.

I5 Troops that don't score...yeah, not the greatest boost in the world...until you realize you can get 15 of those I 5 troops for less than the cost of a Razorback Grey Hunter Squad. I could care less if they don't scare, there's 5 other Troop slots for me to fill so that's no skin off of my teeth.

As per the Rending special rule...it is the same as any other special Close Combat Weapon...you have to choose which attacks you want to use. Why is rending there? So when some Genius puts Canis in Base to Base with a Dreadnought, the overgrown chinchilla has a chance before he dies...yeah, that chance is slim to none; however, it is a chance none the less.

At 180 points, I think he's worth it when actually used right...everyone who separates him from a unit without guaranteeing that he will be in assault for the next couple of rounds deserves to be berated. For everyone who says they can just shoot him off of the board...go for it...just don't forget, there is another xxxx amount of points that have plenty of ways to scalp you...

I don't care what his rules are.

But the entire concept of Space Wolves riding Wolves is just so silly and the model is executed so poorly that I'm not shocked at all at the amount of hate he generates.

I mean for God's sake - look at the wolf's face. Look at Canis' thumb on his raised hand. What made them think that Space Wolves riding wolves would be 'cool'. Well obviously they didn't, because they didn't even risk making a comparatively cheap metal mould to release a box of three. This means that Canis is nothing but a test model - a test to see whether making more of these abominations is viable, be they out of metal, plastic or even soap.

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Canis is by far one of the cheapest Lawn mowers that Space Wolves put out and offers a lot of possibilities that many people discount without much reason. I run Canis with 2 other Wolf Lords and 15 Fenrisian Wolves in what I like to call the Wolf Lord Horde. Basically, you have 18 Models that are Initiative 5 running across the field and shredding anything they touch. What's really cool? During Dawn of War, dropping Canis and the Fenrisian Wolves out at the halfway point in the middle of the board for deployment...usually throw people for a loop because many know they can just shoot it to death; however, I have just split their army in the perfect way for the rest of my army to only have to fight about half of the army for most of the game.

I5 Troops that don't score...yeah, not the greatest boost in the world...until you realize you can get 15 of those I 5 troops for less than the cost of a Razorback Grey Hunter Squad. I could care less if they don't scare, there's 5 other Troop slots for me to fill so that's no skin off of my teeth.

As per the Rending special rule...it is the same as any other special Close Combat Weapon...you have to choose which attacks you want to use. Why is rending there? So when some Genius puts Canis in Base to Base with a Dreadnought, the overgrown chinchilla has a chance before he dies...yeah, that chance is slim to none; however, it is a chance none the less.

At 180 points, I think he's worth it when actually used right...everyone who separates him from a unit without guaranteeing that he will be in assault for the next couple of rounds deserves to be berated. For everyone who says they can just shoot him off of the board...go for it...just don't forget, there is another xxxx amount of points that have plenty of ways to scalp you...

You could by them each thier 2 Woves and make them even larger
Canis +2=3
WL+2=3
WL+2=3
FWP 15=15
=21 models

And that right there Anpu is the reason why people call cheese...It's the points cost of 3 Boyz Squads but is capable of taking down 3 on the charge...

Hail!

To be honest, I don't see what is wrong with Canis' model or the fluff of Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves.

In the fluff, they say that the Thunderwolves resemble bearish/rhino-like wolves. I'd say that Fangir is a bit bulky in the front half of his body, but I think that his model isn't too far of a stretch from the description provied.

Secondly, the test of obtaining a Thunderwolf is similar to the first test of killing a Fenrisian Wolf before you are allowed to even become a Blood Claw. Now, let me further this idea a bit more. If taming a Thunderwolf truly is a brave and dangerous act, so dangerous so that if you succeeded you would have sagas written about you, don't you think this is something logical that a fame crazed Space Wolf might try to do after a long night of drinking at the mead hall?

Space Wolf 1 - "Hey man, I bet you that you can't ride one of those Tunderwolvesh (hic)."
Canis Wolfborn - "Oh really? (hic) I'll bet you that I can, AND that I can have two wolf claws and an unnecesshary rending rule while I do it. (hic) Shomeone hold me ale."

Considering that the Space Wolves are the equivalent of drunken Space Viking frat boys, I don't think that the fact that they ride Thunderwolves is that much of a stretch either.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:
To be honest, I don't see what is wrong with Canis' model or the fluff of Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves.

Some people get it, some don't.

Would it be cool for the Blood Angels to ride giant bats around? What if the Raven Guard had those big birds from Lord of the Rings as mounts?

There's going too far, and then there's the Space Wolves codex. Nevermind that every other word in the thing is "wolf," but they actually took the concept to its painfully logical extreme: you can have a guy named Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf and leading a pack of wolves while shouting about the Wolftime as he attacks people with his Wolf Claws while wearing his Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman, his combat prowess enhanced by Saga of the Wolfkin.

Wuf Wuf Baby

@Seaward

If you're suggesting that I didn't realize that the majority of the SW codex is heavily based/centered around the wolf, trust me, I'm aware.....

Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

Canis is a model to represent the very specific character of the Space Wolves, just as any Blood Angel special character is supposed to represent their chapter. If you don't like it, then don't play Space Wolves, but there's no point in bring up the very obvious point that the Space Wolves have a bunch of fluff around the wolf because there are countless other similar fluff based names/actions/items in 40k.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:@Seaward

If you're suggesting that I didn't realize that the majority of the SW codex is heavily based/centered around the wolf, trust me, I'm aware.....

Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

Canis is a model to represent the very specific character of the Space Wolves, just as any Blood Angel special character is supposed to represent their chapter. If you don't like it, then don't play Space Wolves, but there's no point in bring up the very obvious point that the Space Wolves have a bunch of fluff around the wolf because there are countless other similar fluff based names/actions/items in 40k.

Oh yeah, because other books have ANYTHING similar... When it gets to Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf and leading a pack of wolves while shouting about the Wolftime as he attacks people with his Wolf Claws while wearing his Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman, his combat prowess enhanced by Saga of the Wolfkin, you have a giant walking joke. Really, tell me one character in any other army as nonsensical as him. There's no chaos lord named DeathEvil McKillinger the Deathbringer of Death wielding the Deathfang on his Deathsteed.

TheBloodGod wrote:There's no chaos lord named DeathEvil McKillinger the Deathbringer of Death wielding the Deathfang on his Deathsteed.

There will be now, Thanks

Seaward wrote:

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:
To be honest, I don't see what is wrong with Canis' model or the fluff of Space Wolves riding Thunderwolves.

Some people get it, some don't.

Would it be cool for the Blood Angels to ride giant bats around? What if the Raven Guard had those big birds from Lord of the Rings as mounts?

There's going too far, and then there's the Space Wolves codex. Nevermind that every other word in the thing is "wolf," but they actually took the concept to its painfully logical extreme: you can have a guy named Wolf Wolfborn riding a Thunderwolf and leading a pack of wolves while shouting about the Wolftime as he attacks people with his Wolf Claws while wearing his Wolftooth Necklace and Wolf Tail Talisman, his combat prowess enhanced by Saga of the Wolfkin.

Oh lord, I lol'd at this.

You hit it dead-on, dude. This is why Space Wolf fluff is goddamn slowed.

Whoever wrote that crap is obviously a follower of the "A grim, shadowy figure enters the bar. It is Grimm Shaddo. / Dark Shadows of the Shadowdark" school of thought.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:@Seaward

If you're suggesting that I didn't realize that the majority of the SW codex is heavily based/centered around the wolf, trust me, I'm aware.....

Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

Because they used to be a Space Marine chapter with a Viking werewolf slant, not Viking werewolves with a Space Marine slant. It's simply overdone. It's beyond overdone, really; the dead horse hasn't just been beaten, they went out and bought special wolf-headed bats to beat him with.

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

Blood Angel naming conventions are certainly overdone as well, yeah, though they'll always have the fact that they don't have BAT CAVALRY to give them an edge over Space Wolf idiocy. Plus, there's the fact that half the people reading the codex aren't aware that "sanguine" is a synonym for "bloody." The BA also have a couple different dimensions to them, and despite my dislike for the vampiric/blood-based aspects of their fluff, they've actually really played up the "Angel of Death" angle in the most recent codex - which is a direct tie-in to Space Marine fluff in general, of course, rather than a complete and utter divergence into Crazytown. Blood Angels go overboard; Space Wolves appear to never have been on the ship to begin with.

Canis is a model to represent the very specific character of the Space Wolves, just as any Blood Angel special character is supposed to represent their chapter. If you don't like it, then don't play Space Wolves, but there's no point in bring up the very obvious point that the Space Wolves have a bunch of fluff around the wolf because there are countless other similar fluff based names/actions/items in 40k.

He's representative of a few very stupid ideas, and that's why he's hated. Honestly, Space Wolves would probably be a perfect fit for me if TWC weren't their best assault unit; I get all psyched about a list, and then realize that its main assault component is guys riding giant wolves. When I've picked my eyes up from where they landed after they rolled right out of my head, I flip open a different codex.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:Why wouldn't a race of warriors follow the apex predator of their planet, the wolf, as their icon to represent strength, cunning, fury, speed, and stealth? It seems pretty logical that they would hold some sort of superstitions associated with parts of the wolves they have defeated. Why is it a bad thing because they decided to tie a game mechanic to the Wolf Tooth Necklaces that any Space Wolf might have?

It's because the best things about the Space Wolves weren't the wolves. Things like Logan Grimnar's opposition to the "The Ends Justify The Means" views of the Inquisition and others in the Imperium. The only change I really like from the new codex is the "Lone Wolf" concept, resulting from squads slowly being whittled down to nothing and the Space Wolves' unwillingness to break up understrength squads to bolster others.

As to the Blood Angels riding vampire bats, I think that's a silly point to bring up. That entire book has to do with blood because its part of their fluff. Red Thirst, Blood Talons, Blood Lance, Sanguinor, Sanguinius, the Chalice of Blood. None of that is too literal for you? Should the Sanguinius not have wings because he's a Blood Angel?

The Blood Angels also suck. The ability to focus heavily on assault marines Seaward mentioned is good, as it fits well with Space Marine doctrine, as well as working as a homage to the Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers. But the heavy focus on blood is laughable. They should have kept Corbulo and his Red Grail as a singular, inspiring relic while regular Sanguinary Priests worked like normal Apothecaries, changed the Death Company so that falling to the Red Thirst wasn't seen as a good thing, and left the blood fist, blood talons and blood lance out of it.

SaintHazard wrote:Whoever wrote that crap is obviously a follower of the "A grim, shadowy figure enters the bar. It is Grimm Shaddo. / Dark Shadows of the Shadowdark" school of thought.

And now you hit the nail on the head. It is that level of bad, but then again Tycho was trying to be as intentionally bad as he could. The fact that GW did it simultaneously on purpose and without realising how bad it was speaks volumes about the people writing their fluff (but then again - we now have Blood Fists, Blood Talons, Bloodstrike Missiles and Bloodshard Bolter rounds, so we're stupid to expect otherwise).

The other thing is the inclusion of Thor and Loki (by a different name). Using Norse Mythology is cool when done right, and the whole Space Viking w/Runes and whatnot was fine, but to actually go and just wholesale remove Thor and Loki from the mythology, slap 'em into the Codex, change their names and make some arbitrary fluff is just going too far.

I've decided to take a different stance on the rending rule and take it to mean this: He is rending, period, everysingle one of his attack and shots rend. Why? Ask him. What are your attacks? "Rending" what are your shots "rending" and in fact if he use a grenade that would rend too.

ChrisCP wrote:... and in fact if he use a grenade that would rend too.

Don't be silly. We all know that in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium most grenades are harmless.

Canis is such a goofball, riding around on... THAT! If I ever meet a SW-player with that fugly piece of fur, I'll forfeit and claim that all my orks commited ritual sppuku at the sight of him.

So in that way, yeah, he's a good one, here, I'll even make a quoteable recommendation:

"The orks were everywhere, but as soon as they caught a glimpse of Canis, the commited ritual seppuku... and by that I mean they puked their intestines out their noses while trying to stab themselves through the stomach with their choppas, hilarious!"
- Gnugfur Gjardar Blindeson, sole survivor of the Battle of Wolfy Peaks

Vargtass wrote:Canis is such a goofball, riding around on... THAT! If I ever meet a SW-player with that fugly piece of fur, I'll forfeit and claim that all my orks commited ritual sppuku at the sight of him.

So in that way, yeah, he's a good one, here, I'll even make a quoteable recommendation:

"The orks were everywhere, but as soon as they caught a glimpse of Canis, the commited ritual seppuku... and by that I mean they puked their intestines out their noses while trying to stab themselves through the stomach with their choppas, hilarious!"
- Gnugfur Gjardar Blindeson, sole survivor of the Battle of Wolfy Peaks

Well, to be fair to the guy who sculpted it, there's really no way to make some jackass in power armor sitting on top of a wolf look anything but ridiculous. Even some of the third-party sculpts out there, which are good models in and of themselves, instantly become LOLworthy when a Space Marine gets atop them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Whoever wrote that crap is obviously a follower of the "A grim, shadowy figure enters the bar. It is Grimm Shaddo. / Dark Shadows of the Shadowdark" school of thought.

And now you hit the nail on the head. It is that level of bad, but then again Tycho was trying to be as intentionally bad as he could. The fact that GW did it simultaneously on purpose and without realising how bad it was speaks volumes about the people writing their fluff (but then again - we now have Blood Fists, Blood Talons, Bloodstrike Missiles and Bloodshard Bolter rounds, so we're stupid to expect otherwise).

I shutter to think that this convention will continue into new Dark Angel(Dark Fist, Dark Missile Launcher, Dark Darkness of Darkitude) and Black Templar(Templar Talons, Blessed Knight Bolter rounds) Codecii. I'd rather keep a sub-competitive DA book than face that abortion of my beloved Unforgiven fluff.

AlexHolker wrote:
The Blood Angels also suck. The ability to focus heavily on assault marines Seaward mentioned is good, as it fits well with Space Marine doctrine, as well as working as a homage to the Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers. But the heavy focus on blood is laughable. They should have kept Corbulo and his Red Grail as a singular, inspiring relic while regular Sanguinary Priests worked like normal Apothecaries, changed the Death Company so that falling to the Red Thirst wasn't seen as a good thing, and left the blood fist, blood talons and blood lance out of it.

Space marines have little to do with mobile infantry. Mobile infantry would be more akin to crisis suits with mini nukes going by the book.

Also how is falling to the red thirst a good thing? Are you referring to the fluff/rules for the death company or the army special rule?

Agreed on the names though. Waaay too much use of the word blood as an adjective.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:
Space marines have little to do with mobile infantry. Mobile infantry would be more akin to crisis suits with mini nukes going by the book.

Also how is falling to the red thirst a good thing? Are you referring to the fluff/rules for the death company or the army special rule?

Agreed on the names though. Waaay too much use of the word blood as an adjective.

Falling to the Black Rage is a bad thing. The Red Thirst is something that comes and goes, apparently, and isn't, arguably, even a vampire motif anymore, more just battlerage.

And yeah, I don't really think there's an analogue anywhere for guys jumping out of the sky to land with the sole purpose of hitting you with swords. Even modern-day airborne units aren't comparable, simply due to BA's focus on HtH. I like to think they're more like what would happen if you gave a medieval Forlorn Hope company jump packs.

But this thread is about how much Canis sucks.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:Space marines have little to do with mobile infantry. Mobile infantry would be more akin to crisis suits with mini nukes going by the book.

Space Marines with jump packs that deploy via Deep Strike do. And even if Tau Crisis Suits are a closer fit, that has nothing to do with whether an entirely different army is a homage or not.

Also how is falling to the red thirst a good thing? Are you referring to the fluff/rules for the death company or the army special rule?

You don't remember 3rd edition, when Blood Angels players would take lots of small squads to maximise the number of troops who fell and entered the Death Company?

Seaward wrote:

But this thread is about how much Canis sucks.

It's good to remind me or else I will try take this in some completely random direction. My alter ego is Captain Tangent and his superpower is ADD.

I have a buddy who plays wolves (who I suspect may be mr wolfbrother) and when the new codex came out I told him it was pretty sweet except for the TWC. And I made sure everyone at my FLGS was well aware of low opinion of TWC and Canis specifically. It's been said before but his mount really does look like a cat. as for playing against him, I haven't yet but I suppose I could always be a jerk and hit him with meph in a controversial character showdown.

IMHO I think Canis is MOSTLY ok, I think the wolf could do with a more feral, aggressive wolf-like face but it seems ok to me (though if I were to buy him I would have to at least try to change the face). And if he had a different name I reckon that would've helped....

Hang on just replace his name with... I dunno... Froderick Hengirsson (anything really), and instead of the wolf boy story they gave him, He's the first WGBL to tame the largest Thunderwolf due to his affinity with wolves, ta da, marginally less ridiculous character. Seriously if they didn't call him Wolf Wolfborn I don't think he would get half as much hate as he does.

You listening GW? If you've run out of sensible name ideas for characters, just ask anyone who has a brain...

AlexHolker wrote:[

Also how is falling to the red thirst a good thing? Are you referring to the fluff/rules for the death company or the army special rule?

You don't remember 3rd edition, when Blood Angels players would take lots of small squads to maximise the number of troops who fell and entered the Death Company?

I remember it clearly but that rule has no bearing on the current rules; red thirst and black rage are 2 different things. If you're saying that it should be a bad thing for a unit to roll a 1 for red thirst I would point out that that rule essentially replaces combat tactics.

Anyway, as mentioned above, don't let me pull this thread OT...

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:I remember it clearly but that rule has no bearing on the current rules; red thirst and black rage are 2 different things. If you're saying that it should be a bad thing for a unit to roll a 1 for red thirst I would point out that that rule essentially replaces combat tactics.

...which, for Space Marines, is not a good thing.

When you've got an army of a small number of T4, one-wound models, the ability to choose to fall back from close combat after losing (and then regroup at will) is pretty useful. Fearless will get your Marines killed very quickly. Especially if an IC is attached, since Fearless extends to them.

FC is nice, but that's the only real benefit.

Platuan4th wrote:I shutter to think that this convention will continue into new Dark Angel(Dark Fist, Dark Missile Launcher, Dark Darkness of Darkitude) and Black Templar(Templar Talons, Blessed Knight Bolter rounds) Codecii. I'd rather keep a sub-competitive DA book than face that abortion of my beloved Unforgiven fluff.

Look on the bright side - if GW had continued the trend of Marines riding things with the Blood Angels, and we had got Blood Angels riding giant bats, we would get Black Templars riding horses (obviously), but what would the Dark Angels be riding? Other Dark Angels?

*shudder*

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:I shutter to think that this convention will continue into new Dark Angel(Dark Fist, Dark Missile Launcher, Dark Darkness of Darkitude) and Black Templar(Templar Talons, Blessed Knight Bolter rounds) Codecii. I'd rather keep a sub-competitive DA book than face that abortion of my beloved Unforgiven fluff.

Look on the bright side - if GW had continued the trend of Marines riding things with the Blood Angels, and we had got Blood Angels riding giant bats, we would get Black Templars riding horses (obviously), but what would the Dark Angels be riding? Other Dark Angels?

*shudder*

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

You've just made my morning.

That's filthy, H.B.M.C.

Soap -> your mouth.



For the hilarity factor, I hope they do continue the trend, and we see Dark Angels mounted on the shoulders of Watchers in the Dark.

This was actually supposed to be about How Canis Does Not Suck

Now in a Feeble attempt to get back on track.

The Model: Personally, I like Canis and Snowball, Some Models are Awesome, some are not. He is…ok. He does not fit together well, he is a pain to paint without lots of washes and a Airbrush, and if he falls of your shelf he will crush small dogs. I still like mine even though I will never get him to look as awesome as I would like.

Rending: I personally think he should have it, but my world would not end if they finally came out and said ne does not. Why just because rending is cool. He really does not need it. For Rending to work you need to roll a “6”. That will pop a lot of transports and will still wound anything with a Toughness of 8 or less and I have not seen anything with a toughness of 9 or 10. His attacks still ignore armor all Rending would do is give him that ability to beat up Land Raiders and Monoliths, but that is not his job so that does not mater.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Look on the bright side - if GW had continued the trend of Marines riding things with the Blood Angels, and we had got Blood Angels riding giant bats, we would get Black Templars riding horses (obviously), but what would the Dark Angels be riding? Other Dark Angels? *shudder*

Dark Angel wouldn't ride other Dark Angles, They'd be riding giant green Lions in red battle armor holding massive power swords over their heads and screamin "I HAVE THE POWER!" with really cool lightning effects flying all around them.

The Fox Lord wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Look on the bright side - if GW had continued the trend of Marines riding things with the Blood Angels, and we had got Blood Angels riding giant bats, we would get Black Templars riding horses (obviously), but what would the Dark Angels be riding? Other Dark Angels? *shudder*

Dark Angel wouldn't ride other Dark Angles, They'd be riding giant green Lions in red battle armor holding massive power swords over their heads and screamin "I HAVE THE POWER!" with really cool lightning effects flying all around them.

Well, that sounds manly... THIS manly. Fits the DA

Anpu42 wrote:

The Model: Personally, I like Canis and Snowball, Some Models are Awesome, some are not. He is…ok. He does not fit together well, he is a pain to paint without lots of washes and a Airbrush, and if he falls of your shelf he will crush small dogs. I still like mine even though I will never get him to look as awesome as I would like.

Again, there's a limit to how good you can get an inherently dumb idea to look. That you and others consider the Canis model to look "okay" should be seen as a huge victory for GW.

Seaward wrote:

Vargtass wrote:Canis is such a goofball, riding around on... THAT! If I ever meet a SW-player with that fugly piece of fur, I'll forfeit and claim that all my orks commited ritual sppuku at the sight of him.

So in that way, yeah, he's a good one, here, I'll even make a quoteable recommendation:

"The orks were everywhere, but as soon as they caught a glimpse of Canis, the commited ritual seppuku... and by that I mean they puked their intestines out their noses while trying to stab themselves through the stomach with their choppas, hilarious!"
- Gnugfur Gjardar Blindeson, sole survivor of the Battle of Wolfy Peaks

Well, to be fair to the guy who sculpted it, there's really no way to make some jackass in power armor sitting on top of a wolf look anything but ridiculous. Even some of the third-party sculpts out there, which are good models in and of themselves, instantly become LOLworthy when a Space Marine gets atop them.

I dare you to say it to his face.

Above is a good example of making SM cavalry looking good. This...



...is not.

A chaos marine on a digimon!!!

Now, seriously, the 2 biggest mistakes on Canis are:

- Legs too straight, almost is if he was standing.
- Dual Wolf Claws... how does he stays up there without falling?

Dark wrote:- Dual Wolf Claws... how does he stays up there without falling?

The stirrups. The better question is how he got up there in the first place.

Vargtass wrote:
I dare you to say it to his face.

I'll say it to his face when they come out with Dark Eldar pikemen to counter the increasing prevalence of heavy cavalry as we apparently repeat the Middle Ages all over again.

You guys seem to have forgot how his doggy's face makes it look like it wants to play fetch, it's tail seems feminine and how Canis seems like a poor idea of a Loreal advert.
That and he's £25.

Just Dave wrote:You guys seem to have forgot how his doggy's face makes it look like it wants to play fetch, it's tail seems feminine and how Canis seems like a poor idea of a Loreal advert.
That and he's £25.

Don't forget that the skull in the fur just looks placed there, instead of actually interacting with the animal in any meaningful way that could convey how it's staying on...

AlexHolker wrote:

Dark wrote:- Dual Wolf Claws... how does he stays up there without falling?

The stirrups. The better question is how he got up there in the first place.

Pfffft, the wolf flattened his body against the floor and he jumped on, of course xD

Dark wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Dark wrote:- Dual Wolf Claws... how does he stays up there without falling?

The stirrups. The better question is how he got up there in the first place.

Pfffft, the wolf flattened his body against the floor and he jumped on, of course xD

I've always liked to think it was like fire houses, where they slide down poles when the "It's Time To Kill Stuff Now" alarm sounds.

SaintHazard wrote:

Dark wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Dark wrote:- Dual Wolf Claws... how does he stays up there without falling?

The stirrups. The better question is how he got up there in the first place.

Pfffft, the wolf flattened his body against the floor and he jumped on, of course xD

I've always liked to think it was like fire houses, where they slide down poles when the "It's Time To Kill Stuff Now" alarm sounds.

You evil bastard! I have to draw a lot of stuff for college and now you've making me want to draw badly something really silly!

Dark wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

Dark wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Dark wrote:- Dual Wolf Claws... how does he stays up there without falling?

The stirrups. The better question is how he got up there in the first place.

Pfffft, the wolf flattened his body against the floor and he jumped on, of course xD

I've always liked to think it was like fire houses, where they slide down poles when the "It's Time To Kill Stuff Now" alarm sounds.

You evil bastard! I have to draw a lot of stuff for college and now you've making me want to draw badly something really silly!

Do it... O_O

Dark wrote:

The Fox Lord wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Look on the bright side - if GW had continued the trend of Marines riding things with the Blood Angels, and we had got Blood Angels riding giant bats, we would get Black Templars riding horses (obviously), but what would the Dark Angels be riding? Other Dark Angels? *shudder*

Dark Angel wouldn't ride other Dark Angles, They'd be riding giant green Lions in red battle armor holding massive power swords over their heads and screamin "I HAVE THE POWER!" with really cool lightning effects flying all around them.

Well, that sounds manly... THIS manly. Fits the DA

Yes that manly.
"BY THE POWER OF THE EMPORER!...I HAVE THE POWER!"

So, what was this thread about again? Unless we can get it back on track, the modquisition will be here any moment...

BTW, my girlfriend said liked the Canis figure, I wanted to slap her, but my marbles would have been lodged in my throat...

Vargtass wrote:So, what was this thread about again? Unless we can get it back on track, the modquisition will be here any moment...

BTW, my girlfriend said liked the Canis figure, I wanted to slap her, but my marbles would have been lodged in my throat...

It is suposed to be about why does everyone seem to hate him and how he actualy Does Not Suck, not how ugly the model is.

Except that he does suck, and his model is ugly.

A general concensus on this point has been reached.

SaintHazard wrote:Except that he does suck, and his model is ugly.

A general consensus on this point has been reached.

I do agree that the model has issues and have been trying to avoid that discussion from that start.

As for rules wise I don't Agree.
Yes, you can build a Better "Thunder Wolf Lord"
Yes, you can build a Cheaper "Thunder Wolf Lord"
But you can’t build one cheaper that does what he does.

You have go Back to a basic rule: The Right Tool for the Job
You have tailor you list a little with him, you just cant throw him a list and expert results.

You are taking on a Leaf Blower List: Wrong list for him to be on.
You are taking on a Space Marine Gun Line: Wrong list for him to be on.
You are taking on a multiple Monolith Necron List: Wrong list for him to be on.

You are taking on that all Grot Amy: Right list for him to be on.
You are taking on that Mass Genestealer Horde: Right list for him to be on.
You are taking on the Blob Guard list: Right list for him to be on.

Everything else is hit or miss. You need to build your list around him and you have two basic schools of thought on that.

First: As part of the list. Make sure you have something to counter he weakness: No Range. With this you are trying to make a Tournament Level Competitive Winning List.
-Long Fangs are good for this [is there any thing they can’t do]
-Dreads [Auto-Cannons, Las Cannons, Missile Launcher and/or Plasma Cannons]
Use him as a counter charge unit.

Second: Who gives a lets just go to the wall, I am going to run over you and then suck out your eyeball list. These list while not a Tournament Level Competitive Winning List, are just fun to play. You ar just taking Canis, one or more Wolf Lords on Thunderwolf Mounts and as many Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fenrisian Wolf Packs you have managed to get are trying to table the other guy under a sea of Fangs and Fur.
This is the list he should be on most of the time, a Fun list.

And you have Fun with him he Can’t Suck.

Regardless of how you run him, if you run him in any army with any ranged capability whatsoever (read: all of them) he'll likely be dead turn 2, before he gets anywhere near combat.

He sucks, and his model is ugly.

It's that simple.

SaintHazard wrote:Regardless of how you run him, if you run him in any army with any ranged capability whatsoever (read: all of them) he'll likely be dead turn 2, before he gets anywhere near combat.

He sucks, and his model is ugly.

It's that simple.

Could you contribute something other than that for that few pages.

I've already contributed.

I'm just summing up this thread so far, and the general concensus reached herein.

I don't see that, there has been many who have said thay have used him sucsesfuly and with great effect.

The Fox Lord wrote:"BY THE POWER OF THE EMPORER!...I HAVE THE POWER!"

That's about Matt Ward-ish level writing right there.


And for those trying to call He-Man manly, remember that in the She-Ra movie, Prince Adam wore a pink shirt, and talked about making sweetbread. So not the best example here...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

The Fox Lord wrote:"BY THE POWER OF THE EMPORER!...I HAVE THE POWER!"

That's about Matt Ward-ish level writing right there.


And for those trying to call He-Man manly, remember that in the She-Ra movie, Prince Adam wore a pink shirt, and talked about making sweetbread. So not the best example here...

What is scaring me about that is he has taken all of my “He-Man” Heads from my Space Wolf Battle Forces and now I think he may be looking for good Saber-Tooth Tiger Minis.
His Chaos Maries are currently lead by Hordak

Anpu42 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

The Fox Lord wrote:"BY THE POWER OF THE EMPORER!...I HAVE THE POWER!"

That's about Matt Ward-ish level writing right there.


And for those trying to call He-Man manly, remember that in the She-Ra movie, Prince Adam wore a pink shirt, and talked about making sweetbread. So not the best example here...

What is scaring me about that is he has taken all of my “He-Man” Heads from my Space Wolf Battle Forces and now I think he may be looking for good Saber-Tooth Tiger Minis.
His Chaos Maries are currently lead by Hordak

It'd be cooler is the Chaos Marine leader was Skeletor, but I'm always complaining anyway.

He has him done up to.

Yes, yes I do.
Hordak Rules my Tzeench army & and Skeletor heads my Slanesh army.

I want pics of that.

Anpu42 wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Except that he does suck, and his model is ugly.

A general consensus on this point has been reached.

I do agree that the model has issues and have been trying to avoid that discussion from that start.

As for rules wise I don't Agree.
Yes, you can build a Better "Thunder Wolf Lord"
Yes, you can build a Cheaper "Thunder Wolf Lord"
But you can’t build one cheaper that does what he does.

You have go Back to a basic rule: The Right Tool for the Job
You have tailor you list a little with him, you just cant throw him a list and expert results.

You are taking on a Leaf Blower List: Wrong list for him to be on.
You are taking on a Space Marine Gun Line: Wrong list for him to be on.
You are taking on a multiple Monolith Necron List: Wrong list for him to be on.

You are taking on that all Grot Amy: Right list for him to be on.
You are taking on that Mass Genestealer Horde: Right list for him to be on.
You are taking on the Blob Guard list: Right list for him to be on.

Everything else is hit or miss. You need to build your list around him and you have two basic schools of thought on that.

First: As part of the list. Make sure you have something to counter he weakness: No Range. With this you are trying to make a Tournament Level Competitive Winning List.
-Long Fangs are good for this [is there any thing they can’t do]
-Dreads [Auto-Cannons, Las Cannons, Missile Launcher and/or Plasma Cannons]
Use him as a counter charge unit.

Second: Who gives a lets just go to the wall, I am going to run over you and then suck out your eyeball list. These list while not a Tournament Level Competitive Winning List, are just fun to play. You ar just taking Canis, one or more Wolf Lords on Thunderwolf Mounts and as many Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fenrisian Wolf Packs you have managed to get are trying to table the other guy under a sea of Fangs and Fur.
This is the list he should be on most of the time, a Fun list.

And you have Fun with him he Can’t Suck.

Unless someone can come with a good counter-argument on this I dub this post a winner.

Vargtass wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Except that he does suck, and his model is ugly.

A general consensus on this point has been reached.

(stuff)

Unless someone can come with a good counter-argument on this I dub this post a winner.

I'll Bite.

This Winning post itself is the counter argument as to why and how Canis sucks.

First it shows that against most of the Top-tier Lists Canis is fail.

Then it tells you against several of the (considered) weak lists; he can do quite well.

So it summarizes as: Canis is Top-tier of the bottom-Tier units. Great.

And with Several of the lists Canis is "made to go against"; you are required to nerf Canis's "slaughter the hell out of anything nearby" rule in order to deliver him into combat to begin with. The only Delivery method we have for him is to place him into a large unit of Fenrisian wolves, and send the whole shebang straight towards the largest concentration of enemy models you can find; then when you get the group into combat the rules require you to get as many of those wolves into b2b as possible, while the defender react is flexible enough to allow the enemy to get more models into contact with the wolves instead of Canis. 16 models assaulting what is often going to be a smaller unit(especially with the genestealer hordes), or a not much larger unit(I don't know of anyone that advocates blobbing more than 3 squads max for IG); means you are not going to get the requisite 6+ models in contact with Canis to make use of his rule.

Sure he could be fun to play with; so could the Leman russ Punisher, Swooping hawks, storm troopers, Possessed, helions, or howling banshees.

I'm just sayin' is all.

^
^
^
What he said

So let move them apart in your movement phase and charge the now I5 wolves at something else, and charge Canis for max effect, they aren't glued together and if they are you're doing it wrong

Anpu... you finally nailed it... If you had said that at the beginning... well, I would be a much happier person...
Anus Wolfporn, really... I can't say his name without saying 'Anus Wolfborn'...

Oh, well.

Canis Wolfborn may well be a stupid character, but that's ok, we still have Logan Grimnar, whose name does it right.
Besides, in a game featuring space elves and orks, who cares about the ridiculousness? Some people still think the Squats were a good idea, for god's sake. Admittedly, there are times when it gets a bit much, but I would argue that the SW stuff was not at that infamous level at all.

Canis Wolfborn: Rending
o It states he has Rending it his Profile
o He has Wolf Claws
o Under the Thunderwolf Mount Rule it says that a rider with a Thunderwolf Mount can not use the rending if he is using a “Special Close Combat Weapons”.

Which is Right by RAW?
-By the statement “Specific Overrides General”?
o The General Rule: Thunderwolf Cavalry can not get Rending with “Special Close Combat Weapons”
o The Specific Rule under the Canis Wolfborn's “Special Rules:” it States Rending
To me thar reads very clear “The Specific Rule of Rending overrides the Genral Rule of Thunderwolf Mount”

I had always thought that the rending rule would apply to the extra attacks from Fangir when he and Canis were surrounded in close combat. If I went with my interpretation of the rules, any Wolf Claw attacks wouldn't have rending, where any additional attacks from the mount would offer rending.

Just my input though.

Erik Wolfbrother wrote:I had always thought that the rending rule would apply to the extra attacks from Fangir when he and Canis were surrounded in close combat. If I went with my interpretation of the rules, any Wolf Claw attacks wouldn't have rending, where any additional attacks from the mount would offer rending.

Just my input though.

But were does Fangir's Attacks come in?
His Wrath of the Savage give him his extra attack from his Wolf Claws.

Anpu42 wrote:Canis Wolfborn: Rending
o It states he has Rending it his Profile
o He has Wolf Claws
o Under the Thunderwolf Mount Rule it says that a rider with a Thunderwolf Mount can not use the rending if he is using a “Special Close Combat Weapons”.

Which is Right by RAW?
-By the statement “Specific Overrides General”?
o The General Rule: Thunderwolf Cavalry can not get Rending with “Special Close Combat Weapons”
o The Specific Rule under the Canis Wolfborn's “Special Rules:” it States Rending
To me thar reads very clear “The Specific Rule of Rending overrides the Genral Rule of Thunderwolf Mount”

Only Via GW FAQ(i.e. Studio House Rules) do Thunder Wolf Cabvalry not get rending with their Special Rules. Neither thunderWolf Cavalry nor Canis have a Peice of Wargear called a "ThunderWolf mount"(Canis has Fangir as Wargear and the Fluff description of Fangir states he is a monstrous T-wolf; but a: that is Fluff, and B: still does not call him a Thunderwolf Mount, only a Thunderwolf.)

Erik: there are no Bonus attacks from Fangir, Ever; by any reading of the Rules. Fangir provides a mysterious bonus to Canis's profile(one that we will never know of) and that is all. Wrath of the Savage is definitely Canis's own special rule(the fluff states that he and fangir make up all of the attacks), and there is no "bonus" to his attacks; the number of enemy models replaces his base A Value.

1: The model is made from pure fuglyness.
Needs to be re-posed and altered alot.

2: Until GW re-FAQ's it, rending does nothing for him just yet.

3: No inv. save makes him power weapon food.
Against anything with more than basic attacks he will be brought down quickly. (slaanesh daemons being a prime example)

4: No eternal warrior.
Nearly every single army has something S10 that they can take a few of now.
Not only that, instant death has become pretty common in armies.

5: List wise - Just like meph for BA, you need to taylor the list around him, rather than adding him to the army.
Its mainly for this reason people dont want to commit to using him.


Just my thoughts anyway.