24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Well, this thread is only for people who can handle early rumours without any conformation or proof for quite a while. So lean back, take your salt and enjoy the feeling that maybe you got a first glimpse at a release end of next year. Tau rumours are posted by dante76 over at Warseer:
Through a new source, who with hindsight turned out to be pretty accurate with Blood Angels and Skaven....
Pencilled in release date of Aug 2011
New Alien allies
All metal sets to plastic (Pathfinder, Kroot with hounds and Shaper, Vespids)
Box of Krootox and possible larger
Possible new tank
Changes to Hammerhead Railgun rules. Essentially draws a line across table hitting everything in line. Multiple pen through vehicles, only stopped by a glancing hit.
Changes to markerlights. Point system. 1 Markerlight point = + 1BS, 2 Markerlight points = reroll to wound/hit 3 = Difficult Terrain test (blinded by the lights?). Cannot be stacked. So cant have reroll to wound and reroll to hit at 4 points.
Battle Suits. A plug and play system. Essentially streamlined. Pick two guns and a skill or two skills a gun. New models might have interchangeable arms similar to Killa Kans....
Pathfinders no longer have to take Devilfish (probably infiltration)
No human auxilary in list... (whatever Tau call captured guard who fight for them)
On a side line, yes other armies might deserve attention quicker, but Tau currently are a: majority plastic b: play well currently.
More to come soon....
(Latest changes coloured orange)
For convenience, I add some pics of unreleased Tau/Kroot miniatures that we have seen over the years. Some seem to be test sculpts not meant for release though:
Kroot Shaper, probably Collector's range (pic June 2008):
Ejected Tau Crisis Suit pilot, also probably Collector's range (pics June 2008):
Farsight (test sculpt Matt Holland?, June 2009 and September 2008))
Pathfinders (test sculpts Matt Holland?, September 2008 and June 2009)
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Post by: pretre
Not so sure about Plastic Krootox and Vespid, sounds sketchy. Maybe they will make new rules that will have them being worthwhile. Right now, I don't think I've ever seen a Vespid model in person.
And WOW!. Railgun line of death. That's awesome.
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Post by: Polonius
I should have my tau painted by next august, and be ready to enjoy the new codex!
30108
Post by: Generalstoner
Not sure that the Tau need more alien allies. My fear is that you will start seing Tau armies with little or no Tau represented if some worth taking Aliens pop up in the book.
That Railgun i'll take with a grain of salt of course but could you imagine 2 or 3 railguns in an Apoc game? 
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Post by: Polonius
I like the idea of tons of alien allies. It makes more sense than figuring out more ways to arm firewarriors or more suits.
It really builds the idea that it's a true empire: a collection of nations.
18321
Post by: kharn
Tau-riffic!
22318
Post by: Termagant
YTay
6987
Post by: Chimera_Calvin
I hope they integrate some of the nicer FW stuff into the new 'dex (especially Knarloc riders - the 6 nicest models I own  ) but will be most interested in the aliens.
At present Kroot are fine and are the most 'fleshed out' (pun intended  ) of the allies. Another unit or 2 in the dex and a couple of tweaks and they're sorted.
Vespid need a serious overhaul (personally I'd keep their stats but make them cheaper and give them the scout USR - I like the idea of a swarm of outflanking bugs  )
I'd like to see them use the opportunity to bring in Gue'vesa (human auxiliaries), although knowing GW this is probably the least likely given their current model of keeping everything seperate (Chaos, I'm looking in your direction...)
I just hope they don't drop the ball and miss out the opportunity to bring Nicassar and *gasp* Demiurg ground forces into the 'dex. Both are established through BFG and it would be a great way of building on what they have already.
just my $0.02 - will be keeping an eye on this though as I'm with Polonius, my ill-fated Tau force should be painted by next year too!
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Post by: Uriels_Flame
I'll have to play test the rail-gun rumor and see what kind of effect it has overall. Would also like to see the Krootox be able to flank. I would think this may be a similar plan for gauss/necron weaponry too. Flanking Hammerheads would be cool
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Post by: nerdfest09
Wow, this sounds good hope something comes of this! i've got (read in bits for the past 6 months) a Kroot merc army, and love the option of having someone different to play with or convert!
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Post by: MajorTom11
Man rumors suck sometimes, not because the news isn't fun, but because if you get excited, you almost instantly realize the wait will probably be 2+ years at best.
It has been slim pickings for 40k this year I feel, despite the BA awesomeness...
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Post by: evilsponge
some initial CADs of the new crisis suits. Keep in mind these ARE subject to change
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Post by: spacewolflord
I can see them expanding the Vespid and Kroot's role in the army. Plastic makes it easy to give them one box and have two or so 'units' in them. And why not? The Tau are suppost to have a good size multi-species empire so why not use them more? There is going to be a throw away human unit in the army when it gets redone.
It should be interesting to see what they come out with for them.
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Post by: Dez
Please no Demiurg, I can't start another project! I have too many to finish already, and I never really wanted to play Tau....but if there are Squats I'll have no choice!
(Ha, there! Reset the clock again. Whew!)
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Post by: avantgarde
Vespids will either look amazing but be unplayable or be competitive and look like az. They cannot have both.
Plastic broadsides would be nice, maybe they'll even price them like Kans. Probably not.
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Post by: Avrik_Shasla
Bout time Tau got a change. All their special rules had to deal with Target priority, now that that is gone we can see some new changes. I cannot wait for this.
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Post by: The Watcher in the Dark
Sounds interesting. Lets hope they go back towards the original concept, especially for the Ethereals - skimpy loincloths and ornate spiky bits are best left to DE.
Also, more alien allies could help to make Tau playable as more than just a big gunline and really fits in with the fluff. Plus it would provide a great basis for making a Cabal army... 
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Post by: Kilkrazy
There has been lots of fan suggestions for how to change the Tau codex, especially around making Fire Warriors useful for something.
None of it featured Railguns being an SM Libby Magic Power attack.
If Railguns get the rumoured rule, everyone will use nine Broadsides.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
I like what I hear, but I don't believe it....
25543
Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Kilkrazy wrote:There has been lots of fan suggestions for how to change the Tau codex, especially around making Fire Warriors useful for something.
None of it featured Railguns being an SM Libby Magic Power attack.
If Railguns get the rumoured rule, everyone will use nine Broadsides.
let's just hope GW is smart and includes ALL the turret options for the hammer head this time around (i'm looking at the plasma cannon varrient as well as the fusion cannon one)
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Post by: Cyporiean
Kilkrazy wrote:There has been lots of fan suggestions for how to change the Tau codex, especially around making Fire Warriors useful for something.
None of it featured Railguns being an SM Libby Magic Power attack.
If Railguns get the rumoured rule, everyone will use nine Broadsides.
Rumored rule is for the Hammerhead Railgun, which has always been different from Broadsides.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Generalstoner wrote:Not sure that the Tau need more alien allies. My fear is that you will start seing Tau armies with little or no Tau represented if some worth taking Aliens pop up in the book.
Polonius wrote:I like the idea of tons of alien allies. It makes more sense than figuring out more ways to arm firewarriors or more suits.
It really builds the idea that it's a true empire: a collection of nations.
I agree with both of you. I like alien allies but I don't know if the Tau need any more. They will be dilluted out of their own list at this rate. The aliens are suppose to be auxilliaries so as long as GW through the rules maintain that numerical ballance.
I think Firewarriors are fine as is, I think crisis suits could, in a fluffy way, be rethought. I think FW has done a nice job of that.
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Post by: Kroothawk
I have updated the rumour text.
I also added some pics of old unreleased Tau/Kroot sculpts (before other people post them as new ), most seem to be test sculpts though not meant to be released.
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Post by: 40kbumpup
Love the pic of the gundam VERY FUNNY.
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Post by: ChiliPowderKeg
I can handle waiting for ~2 years. What I can't handle is any possible reference to the nonsense wishlisting I saw on warseer in 2009 (Shas'O power weapons, are you kidding me!?)
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
ChiliPowderKeg wrote:I can handle waiting for ~2 years. What I can't handle is any possible reference to the nonsense wishlisting I saw on warseer in 2009 (Shas'O power weapons, are you kidding me!?)
shas'o power weapons would make since though.... but as an optional weapon for maybe 20 - 25 points
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Post by: agnosto
@kroothawk,
I love those pathfinders; much better than the current models IMHO.
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Post by: Reecius
Thanks for the rumor stew, Kroothawk. Sounds great! Tau are a cool army and I would love to see them get brought up to speed.
The next year sounds awesome: Dark Eldar, Daemon Hunters, Tau. Hell yes, son!
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Post by: Cane
Sounds cool, can't wait. Hopefully the Crisis Suits get some needed updates in their design as well - their shoulders could use some Imperial proportions since they're tiny now and the ankles look pretty weak too.
1985
Post by: Darkness
That railgun rumor was the same one before the original Tau dex came out
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Post by: juraigamer
I love salt so much, on everything, even salad.
But I love my tau more. I can see rays of light in the darkness that is my tau carrying case, behold a new beginning!
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
You sirs have brought me renewed vigor for my Tau army... I want to hear people complain on how my Railgun zooms forward 12" and skewers through 3-4 Chimeras and a Russ (Rhino and Land Raider respectfully).
I want my firewarriors to be able to take special weapons like a space marine can... (Rail Rifles, Plasma Rifle, etc)
I want my Hammerhead to also do more than fire one shot on a 3+, having plasma turrets would be awesome.
I also would like to have power weapons, or at the very least the "veterans" of the army to have BS 4... Every time I roll to shoot, the IG players snicker at me... :(
If more aliens show up in my Tau army, it will be because they are doing a specific job, and they will be doing that job comparatively well. My close combat experts better be experts in close combat, my MEQ hunters better have all the tools to kill squads of MEQs without out spending them.
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Post by: hubcap
avantgarde wrote:Vespids will either look amazing but be unplayable or be competitive and look like az. They cannot have both.
Well, now Vespids are both unplayable and look like az.
So going either/or would be an upgrade.
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Post by: poipo32
I love the ejected pilot model, I really hope it'll be released.
I can't wait to see new Tau rules, I might start 'em.
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Post by: agnosto
Cane wrote:Sounds cool, can't wait. Hopefully the Crisis Suits get some needed updates in their design as well - their shoulders could use some Imperial proportions since they're tiny now and the ankles look pretty weak too.
They are pretty weak. I've had numerous ankle breakages....
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Post by: jp400
Those railgun stats:
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Post by: warboss
cool rumors. grain of salt and all as usual. i do like the idea of a railgun that keeps going until it glances (or rolls a one to wound hopefully!). at least that corresponds to the fluff in the various stories about tau railguns and how they're used. i expect them to at least give tau the other 5th edition standard upgrades like decrease in transport and unit point costs, free grenades for everyone (even IG get frag!), and some force org changes based on unit selection.
on the off chance GW is listening, i'd suggest giving every tau jetpack infantry (i.e. crisis and stealth suits) hit and run. they shouldn't be able to reliably win a close combat (even with a new codex) but they should at least have a chance of escaping it.
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Post by: Defiler
I would imagine the Rail Gun rumor would have some sort of balancing factor like it loses one strength every time it comes into contact with the next vehicle.
I can't imagine a Strength 10 AP 1 RAY would exist in this game.
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Post by: ChiliPowderKeg
Defiler wrote:I would imagine the Rail Gun rumor would have some sort of balancing factor like it loses one strength every time it comes into contact with the next vehicle.
I can't imagine a Strength 10 AP 1 RAY would exist in this game.
I can. GW has a lacking sense of the word balance, as I see it often complained about in the most recent of Codii.
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Post by: agnosto
Defiler wrote: I can't imagine a Strength 10 AP 1 RAY would exist in this game.
*cough* JOWW *cough*
Though not S10 it most decidedly is a ray that can weak havoc....especially vs. Tau.
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Post by: Red_Lives
Tau can't be in the works, we still need 2 more marine codex to come out.
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Post by: Lukez
I will be very excited if they bring out more allies. They definitely do need to fix vespid, I would drop fleet and lower the point cost myself.
Bonus points if they add a special charcter that is kinda like an opposite to O'Shovah, I.E. Rearrange army structure to make it possible to do an allies only army.
Lukez
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Post by: chaos0xomega
QuietOrkmi wrote:You sirs have brought me renewed vigor for my Tau army... I want to hear people complain on how my Railgun zooms forward 12" and skewers through 3-4 Chimeras and a Russ (Rhino and Land Raider respectfully).
I want my firewarriors to be able to take special weapons like a space marine can... (Rail Rifles, Plasma Rifle, etc)
I want my Hammerhead to also do more than fire one shot on a 3+, having plasma turrets would be awesome.
I also would like to have power weapons, or at the very least the "veterans" of the army to have BS 4... Every time I roll to shoot, the IG players snicker at me... :(
If more aliens show up in my Tau army, it will be because they are doing a specific job, and they will be doing that job comparatively well. My close combat experts better be experts in close combat, my MEQ hunters better have all the tools to kill squads of MEQs without out spending them.
And I'd like to win the lotto, that doesn't mean its going to happen.
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Post by: Lorek
All of you with an "in-progress" Tau army need to start playing it now so you can say that you were playing Tau before they got all powerful and stuff.
It's just nice to see that we're actually seeing Tau rumors, false or not.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Hey, I've been playing them since 3rd edition (my first army), although I havent played them in the last 2 years or so.
I did recently come to the realization that I have 15 crisis suits and 9 piranhas though...
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Post by: Acardia
I've not played mine for a few months, but they are mostly painted. So I will paint another box of Kroot, taking my total to 3 painted. And the last two crisis suits that need it, a 3rd devil fish, and maybe an etheral since they could be useful, and all the special dewd I don't have, also for the same reason.
BTW. I would pay handsomly for that kroot shaper.
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Post by: Thanatos_elNyx
Sweet, love the Railgun idea.
New Allies is awesome hopefully some Demiurg and Nicassar!
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Post by: spaceman spiff
All they have to do is expand the FW line into the standard codex and then allow for troops choice Suits and I will be happier than I am now.
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Post by: Lucid
I just started playing Tau. Good to know I beat the bandwagon this time. (I tried with Guard, but I didn't have the resources to start before the new codex).
The Hammerhead thing sounds exciting, but op. I would love to see a Kroot HQ so the can be used as an army within the Tau army. Maybe some human allies so I can use my Guard models. Stealth suits need some upgrades/options. love the idea of them, but they don't fit thier role.
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Post by: Brother SRM
The railgun stats sounds really, really playtesty - like that's definitely an idea from a playtest codex. It actually makes sense to me though. Would hopefully have an appropriate cost though. To be fair, how often do you really have vehicles lined up like that?
These seem more plausible than a lot of the rumors that float around. I don't see plastic Vespid happening though. Pathfinders, sure. Krootox, maybe. A new alien race sounds about right. I like the idea of making the Tau more coalition-like.
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Post by: Darth Bob
Woah...that Kroot Shaper model is fantastic. I want one and I don't even play Tau.
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Post by: warboss
as for allies, i'd like more in the next codex but not too many. personally, one non-tau allied race entry per slot (hq, elite, troop, FA, heavy) feels about right.
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Post by: Grimaldi
The railgun-ray doesn't sound too bad. Shouldn't be too hard to ensure your vehicles aren't all bunched up, and few infantry units would be hurt more by the ray than they would a submunition.
Granted, if the railgun platform can survive long enough and run down a flank for enfilade shots, that's a different story, but seems a fair reward for successfully maneuvering.
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Post by: jp400
Unless it can deepstrike on turn 2 and blast your gunline.....
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Post by: Warboss Imbad Ironskull
I saw this over on ATT.
Personally I'll wait untill the new book is in my hands before getting excited. But some of the rumors do sound cool.
I'm not sure if I should keep it up with my re-haul on my Tau right now or not. I don't want to finish them and it turns out that there is a whole bunch of new goodies I'd rather have.
I do like the idea of more aliens I mean that is what the Tau are all about. And for those who say that the Tau would be phased out of their own armies that's the players choice. If the new dex has a ton load of new aliens and players want to use them they can, if you want to stick with mostly Tau and lesser auxiliaries I'm sure you'll be able to. I highly doubt they are going to put the Tau on the back step in their own codex. And to be honest in all my time playing I've only ever seen 1 army that was mostly Tau, all the others had counts (yeah I know they're counts as) auxiliaries or home grown auxiliaries so I don't see much changing on that end.
Only time will tell
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Post by: Jackal
Does this mean its possible ill get to use my hazard suits?
If not, then keep thier tau.
FW suits have allways looked better, so i rather not have to replace them all with new ones if/when they get released.
Railgun wise: I see it as possible, but maybe a slight catch on it?
Before people scream over-powered, think back to JOWW on release.
People were up in arms about it, now its just part of the game.
and lets face it, atleast the rail cant skewer multiple fex's
Well, guess i better get my daemons and BA finished up so i can start something new
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Post by: Acardia
Brother SRM wrote:The railgun stats sounds really, really playtesty - like that's definitely an idea from a playtest codex. It actually makes sense to me though. Would hopefully have an appropriate cost though. To be fair, how often do you really have vehicles lined up like that?
These seem more plausible than a lot of the rumors that float around. I don't see plastic Vespid happening though. Pathfinders, sure. Krootox, maybe. A new alien race sounds about right. I like the idea of making the Tau more coalition-like.
If they still have the upgrade that allows you to fire as a fast vehicle, that will leave a lot of maneuverability to get the shot off.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Hastings answered this to questions about possible new Crisis Suit sculpts:
I have been all but assured that they are not getting redone, which is a massive shame as the FW ones are fantastic and the GW ones crap!
Even when this points at the other direction than the rumours in the first post.
Good thing that all my Crisis Suits and Broadsides already ARE by FW
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Post by: Commander Endova
@Kroothawk: Who is dante76, and does he have any history of being credible? As this could just be another fake, like the Tomb Stalker debacle, I'm gonna call Evelynn  on this one.
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Post by: ChiliPowderKeg
Kroothawk wrote:Hastings answered this to questions about possible new Crisis Suit sculpts:
I have been all but assured that they are not getting redone, which is a massive shame as the FW ones are fantastic and the GW ones crap!
Even when this points at the other direction than the rumours in the first post.
Good thing that all my Crisis Suits and Broadsides already ARE by FW
 Fine then! Keep your promiscuously curvy suits, I like the boxbot better
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Post by: Kroothawk
Commander Endova wrote:@Kroothawk: Who is dante76, and does he have any history of being credible? As this could just be another fake, like the Tomb Stalker debacle, I'm gonna call Evelynn on this one.
He is a long time Warseer member with a low post count, not a usual rumour poster. But the usual rumour posters won't post rumours on releases that far away anymore. As said, this thread is for people who can deal with uncertain rumours. But I agree that those people posting lies like Mr. Mystery here or Meriwether on Warseer are really annoying and not funny at all.
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Post by: Commander Endova
What does "deal with uncertain rumors" mean, anyway? Every rumor thread is subject to being debunked, unless what you're saying is that people should believe whatever you bring to light wholesale?
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Post by: Alphapod
I can't see the railgun getting that new rule; it seems a bit OP in some scenarios and not all that useful in others. I would rather not see crisis suits simplified either; new options is one thing, but I think that the system for arming them works great as is. As far as 'worthless' FW, I personally find them useful for FoF attacks and long range fire support. I wouldn't mind one new alien race, but more then one would be pushing it. Maybe they could make the Skyray not suck too... probably not. On another note, IG got Valkyries and BA got Stormravens, so maybe Tau will get an aircraft?
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
If they do get an air craft, I hope it is a bomber so it can drop a bomb that puts the deathstrike missile to shame... *very ridiculous but I want to hear the words "Tau are sooo OP" out of my FLGS
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Alphapod wrote:I can't see the railgun getting that new rule; it seems a bit OP in some scenarios and not all that useful in others. I would rather not see crisis suits simplified either; new options is one thing, but I think that the system for arming them works great as is. As far as 'worthless' FW, I personally find them useful for FoF attacks and long range fire support. I wouldn't mind one new alien race, but more then one would be pushing it. Maybe they could make the Skyray not suck too... probably not. On another note, IG got Valkyries and BA got Stormravens, so maybe Tau will get an aircraft?
if they do get aircraft it'll most likely be the orca as it is a transport like the valk... but that is just my opinion
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Post by: Red_Lives
Commander Endova wrote:@Kroothawk: Who is dante76, and does he have any history of being credible? As this could just be another fake, like the Tomb Stalker debacle, I'm gonna call Evelynn
on this one.
That movie sucked.
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Post by: jspyd3rx
Getting that railgun rule alone changes the whole army. I am going to ask a friend to play against me with it. Could be fun.
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Post by: Blitza da warboy
other than the battlesuit HQ (forgot his name >_& gt the rest of the tau models are meh for me. Now the big mek, I WANT THAT!
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Post by: Slackermagee
Someone has been hinting to me in vague ways that Matt Ward would be redoing a codex close to my heart. Seeing as I only play Tau...
Never actually caught a whiff of a rumor personally before, hopefully this isn't just flak. Well, no, the gamer in me hopes it IS true. The fluff maniac inside me really wants Matt Ward to stay the hell away from the Tau Empire. Maybe fiddle with the Grey Knights instead...
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Post by: Red_Lives
Slackermagee wrote:Someone has been hinting to me in vague ways that Matt Ward would be redoing a codex close to my heart. Seeing as I only play Tau...
Never actually caught a whiff of a rumor personally before, hopefully this isn't just flak. Well, no, the gamer in me hopes it IS true. The fluff maniac inside me really wants Matt Ward to stay the hell away from the Tau Empire. Maybe fiddle with the Grey Knights instead...
Honestly in a codex Rules should be the most important thing, with fluff being second. But that's just limited to codex, there is plenty of room for highly detailed fluff outside the codex, (Books, supplementary campaign settings, etc) but the rules should take highest priority in a codex. Since this is a game and the fluff is there to promote the game.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Those rumours sound absurd.
Then again, if I'd told you a year ago that Blood Angels would have a Psychic Dreadnought who could jump out of a mini-Thunderhawk with a psychic Jump Pack whilst firing a grappling hook before hitting you with a weapon called a 'Bloodfist', you've called me mad.
Salt has no place in 40K rumours any more. GW is crazy enough to try anything.
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Post by: JOHIRA
I could imagine the railgun rumour working as a 3rd firing mode. So main at S10, submunitions, or a reduced-strength ray. Though really, I don't see much point in it and wouldn't care much if it never materialized.
If "everything" including kroot oxen and kroothounds is going to be plastic, then my guess is that Krootoxen and kroothounds will be included on the main Kroot sprue. While I'd love more plastic kroot bits to work towards a more easily-converted Kroot Merc army, you can bet that if that were to happen GW would ensure the mix of bits would be whatever was least effective for gamers and required them to buy loads of boxes and leave some kroot unused just to get the optimum combination.
I only want more alien auxiliaries if the models are good. I refuse to give vespid even a chance because the models are so crap.
But in the end unless they come out with something new and secret and amazing I see little point in dusting off my Tau and finishing them. I play armies because I like the models, and crisis suits aged very poorly very quickly. If they aren't getting redone, then I'm just uninterested.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't think it'd represent a 'ray', I think it'd represent the sci-fi trope of rail guns being able to shoot through anything.
I guess they assume that in the 41st Millennium, the Tau have conquered friction.
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Post by: AlexHolker
JOHIRA wrote:I could imagine the railgun rumour working as a 3rd firing mode. So main at S10, submunitions, or a reduced-strength ray.
That would be rather silly. If anything's going to punch holes in things and keep on going (overpenetration), it will be the biggest, baddest kinetic penetrator available, the S10 railgun slug.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Another update on the rumours in the first post. I know colour the last batch of changes in orange.
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Post by: 1hadhq
New Alien allies
All metal sets to plastic (Pathfinder, Kroot with hounds and Shaper, Vespids)
Box of Krootox and possible larger
Possible new tank
Changes to Hammerhead Railgun rules. Essentially draws a line across table hitting everything in line. Multiple pen through vehicles, only stopped by a glancing hit.
Changes to markerlights. Point system. 1 Markerlight point = + 1BS, 2 Markerlight points = reroll to wound/hit 3 = Difficult Terrain test (blinded by the lights?). Cannot be stacked. So cant have reroll to wound and reroll to hit at 4 points.
Battle Suits. A plug and play system. Essentially streamlined. Pick two guns and a skill or two skills a gun. New models might have interchangeable arms similar to Killa Kans....
Pathfinders no longer have to take Devilfish (probably infiltration)
No human auxilary in list... (whatever Tau call captured guard who fight for them)
Good to see more aliens. Maybe some psykers?
And bravo to no humans
Streamlined plastic sets could contain basic models + bitz, but decrease the models per box so you need 2 for a legal build....
 Who's writing this codex?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
1hadhq wrote:Who's writing this codex?
You've got four options: Jervis - Bland Codex with no options. Tons of special characters. Cruddance - Bland Codex with bland options. Tons of bland special characters. Kelly - Powerful Codex with interesting options. Lots of silly broken things that should have been obviously picked up in testing. Tau riding wolves. Ward - An absolute gakstorm.
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Post by: 1hadhq
The railgun rumor sounds somehow Ward-ish....
could be Kelly too, looking at the space puppies. If it is Kelly we would know soon as he may talk about his actual work at a certain GD
(which I am going to stay clear from), and Jervis seems to be Mr expansions/campaign/tourny.
Cruddace is free, right? Maybe anyone give me a hint who's doing DE ?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I thought Kelly was doing DE (which is a good thing).
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Post by: Oshova
Well if the rules are any good, and Kroot are still really cool. Then I may have to rebuild my Tau army (more effectively this time ofcourse) and hope and pray that they put in rules that mean you COULD have an entire Kroot army =D
Now THAT would be cool =p
Oshova
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Post by: 1hadhq
In this case, its Ward or Cruddace.
If Ward does it, we get UM and Tau as bestest freinds....
Cruddace should be next after DE/Kelly.
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Post by: Oshova
H.B.M.C. wrote:Those rumours sound absurd.
Then again, if I'd told you a year ago that Blood Angels would have a Psychic Dreadnought who could jump out of a mini-Thunderhawk with a psychic Jump Pack whilst firing a grappling hook before hitting you with a weapon called a 'Bloodfist', you've called me mad.
Salt has no place in 40K rumours any more. GW is crazy enough to try anything.
HBMC I can't believe I missed this post the first time I read this thread . . . that is a brilliant way of explaining the way GW has turned of late.
So Kroot Giants with wings, a Thunderhammer-esque weapon, and railguns on the shoulders that can fire independly whether the model has moved, run, assaulted, or not . . . could this be real? =D
Oshova
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Post by: Agamemnon2
H.B.M.C. wrote:Those rumours sound absurd.
Considering this forum was just punk'd by some reprobate with access to a pirated version of photoshop and probably a spellchecker, I see no reason to trust anything coming in from the community. There's only ever been one credible source of GW rumors, and since Brimstone has wrung the curtain and joined the choir invisible, what's left are worth a whit of attention.
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Post by: Tim the Biovore
Hmm, Tau friend will enjoy this news.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Agamemnon2 wrote:Considering this forum was just punk'd by some reprobate with access to a pirated version of photoshop and probably a spellchecker, I see no reason to trust anything coming in from the community. There's only ever been one credible source of GW rumors, and since Brimstone has wrung the curtain and joined the choir invisible, what's left are worth a whit of attention.
Come now Eeyore, there's no need for your particular brand of Internet Hyperbole. It's not like the late great Brimstone was the only person capable of getting rumours, and why someone posting spam has any bearing on rumour threads is beyond me. Give it a rest.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
I'm just looking for a reason, any reason at all, to believe this latest absurd crop of rumors.
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Post by: JimBowen38
Hmm some interesting stuff the Tau have lots of potential just please no space dwarfs they had their time let it go!
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Post by: johnscott10
Hmm great thats all i need lol.
Just starting up a Tau army on monday. Least theres at least a year to get used to their play style just for it to possibly go to hell XD
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Post by: ChiliPowderKeg
Slackermagee wrote:Someone has been hinting to me in vague ways that Matt Ward would be redoing a codex close to my heart. Seeing as I only play Tau...
Never actually caught a whiff of a rumor personally before, hopefully this isn't just flak. Well, no, the gamer in me hopes it IS true. The fluff maniac inside me really wants Matt Ward to stay the hell away from the Tau Empire. Maybe fiddle with the Grey Knights instead...
Matt Ward  I was looking forward to SOME cheese and mechanics switches, not vague overdone OP sounding rules that make me think "Durr hurr"... Well at least we were already playing Tau, the expenses won't be be THAT bad.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm just looking for a reason, any reason at all, to believe this latest absurd crop of rumors.
Did you not hear me?
...if I'd told you a year ago that Blood Angels would have a Psychic Dreadnought who could jump out of a mini-Thunderhawk with a psychic Jump Pack whilst firing a grappling hook before hitting you with a weapon called a 'Bloodfist', you've called me mad.
Seems more plausible now, doesn't it?
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Post by: Alpharius
Tau are too far out to really give this much thought.
Aren't they?
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Post by: Kanluwen
My Magic 8-Ball says...
"Ask Again Later".
*shakes again*
What're the odds of getting "Ask Again Later" twice in a row?
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Post by: ChiliPowderKeg
Alpharius wrote:Tau are too far out to really give this much thought.
Aren't they?
Apparently not.
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Post by: Red Corsair
I would like to see them make squadrons for hammerheads or give them the outflank USR but either way Im sorry there is no way that railgun rumor is coming true... against hord armies that would be arguable more affective then pie plates.
Hey 'Nids "Wammma!!" as Earthworm Jim would say as a broadside team takes down multiple Big nasties in one volley.
Then again its GW so it wouldn't be far off base to believe they would do such a thing.
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Post by: agnosto
The rumor has nothing to do with broadsides just hammerhead railguns.
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Post by: Slackermagee
agnosto wrote:The rumor has nothing to do with broadsides just hammerhead railguns.
I imagine they'd make the distinction by calling it a rail cannon as opposed to a rail gun.
Which now makes me wonder if the Broadsides railgun is getting a strength debuff... icky.
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Post by: Alpharius
ChiliPowderKeg wrote:Alpharius wrote:Tau are too far out to really give this much thought.
Aren't they?
Apparently not.
Actually, they are.
That's what I get for being too vague I guess...
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Post by: juraigamer
H.B.M.C. wrote:Agamemnon2 wrote:I'm just looking for a reason, any reason at all, to believe this latest absurd crop of rumors.
Did you not hear me?
...if I'd told you a year ago that Blood Angels would have a Psychic Dreadnought who could jump out of a mini-Thunderhawk with a psychic Jump Pack whilst firing a grappling hook before hitting you with a weapon called a 'Bloodfist', you've called me mad.
Seems more plausible now, doesn't it?
Exactly. Same deal with all that stuff in the new nid codex. If anything, the rumors make the new tau codex sound like all GW wants us to buy is hammerheads, so we aren't hearing the whole story. Expect a flyer.
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Post by: Kroothawk
juraigamer wrote:Exactly. Same deal with all that stuff in the new nid codex.
Actually, all my Tyranid rumour threads on Warseer were closed by Brimstone, because who could believe so many new and monstrous species to be in the Codex without even a model! Must be wishlisting! Phil Kelly confirmed it? Bah! One of them on the cover on the left? Nonsense!
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
juraigamer wrote:Exactly. Same deal with all that stuff in the new nid codex. If anything, the rumors make the new tau codex sound like all GW wants us to buy is hammerheads, so we aren't hearing the whole story. Expect a flyer.
You're right. In fact, you could apply this to just about any recent Codex:
" ... if I'd told you two years ago that Space Wolves would have a Marines riding Giant Wolves, that Thor and Loki would have rules, and that there'd be a psychic power that could kill a several Carnifexes at once in a single hit from across the table, you'd've called me mad."
" ... if I'd told you three years ago ago that Tyranids would have a new Monstrous Creature that could spawn Termagants during the Movement Phase, that Trygons would be a Heavy Support Choice, that Carnifexes would come in Squadrons, and that the Tyranid book would be filled with Special Characters, new flying creatures and more Monstrous Creatures than ever before, you'd've called me mad!"
" ... if I'd told you a few years ago that the new Chaos Codex would suck, you'd've called me mad!"
Easy.
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Post by: Acardia
GW has release so much stuff that I want Daemons, BA, and HE this year that I can gladly wait to 2012 for Tau, save for that shaper.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
" ... if I'd told you a few years ago that there was going to be a whole Daemon 40K army, and that there would be un-bound Defilers, loads of new cavalry and chariots, everything could deep strike, that you could take two HQ's in every slot, that there would be Special Character Greater Daemons and that we'd be getting this because Daemons were being removed from the Chaos Codex, you'd've called me mad!" " ... if I'd told you two or so years that there was going to be a new Guard Codex where there were 6 different types of Leman Russ and that they were bringing back the Griffon, and Hydras would be in there, as well as Manticores, and all tanks could be taken in squads of 3 as a single Heavy Support slot, and Primaris Psykers were coming back, and whole squads of Psykers, and there's gonna be a plastic Valkyrie and you can bring them as transports, and you can have whole squads of 50 Guardsman and give them orders to shoot twice and Ogryn and Storm Troopers will still suck 'cause in 20 years they've never got them right, you'd've called me mad (except for the bit about Ogryn and Stormies)!" This is fun!
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Post by: Quintinus
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"... if I'd told you a few years ago that the new Chaos Codex would suck, you'd've called me mad!"
Easy.
You're fallin apart there sonny boy. That one was pretty easily predicted.
That being said, I hope that Tau will become the 40k Dogs of War. That'd be suh-weeeet.
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Post by: Oshova
Out of all of those the only ones that would have been feasable are the Chaos Codex sucking (Wen can't have CSM being as good as SM =p), and Carnifex squads in Nids . . . it's the best way to sell more models =D
Oshova
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Post by: schadenfreude
Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.
Broadsides>hammerheads. Tau players own tons of broadsides, so expect hammerheads to rule in the next dex. The ray o DOOM probably won't have a 72" range o DOOM, and if it does the cost of a hammerhead will be expensive. My guess is 4D6 starting at the impact of the 1st model hit, kind of like a whfb cannonball. It might also be a special ammo/upgrade like a medusae bastion breacher turning a hammerhead into a dedicated tank hunter. Mech is popular, and tau are not. My personal guess is 5th ed tau will be focused on killing meq and mech, but will be weak against other lists.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
schadenfreude wrote:Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.
You want a simple fix for Vespid? Assault 2. Done.
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Post by: Kommissar Kel
H.B.M.C. wrote:schadenfreude wrote:Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.
You want a simple fix for Vespid?
Assault 2.
Done.
I'd agree with A2; but attacks, not assault.
Better yet would be both; make them like Ork Shoota boyz but worse, fleet, and jump infantry.
It's almost like GW didn't learn anything with the stingwings when they wrote the rules for the new hot-shot lasguns; nobody wants a short range AP3 weapon on a model that cannot also damage a marine in close combat.
I actually wish the rumors on vespid oh so many year ago were correct; that the neutron blasters would be ap3 flamers, instead we are left with short range single shot weapons on models that can hardly hit, easily get hit, and then have trouble wounding. 11 shots that roughly 5(rounded down) hit and 3-4 wound, followed by 22 crummy attacks that pretty much all get saved before the unit gets it's butts handed to it, for 182 points, is just not good. And the range means that this unit will get assaulted if it doesn't assault.
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Post by: warboss
H.B.M.C. wrote:schadenfreude wrote:Nobody uses vespids so expect them to get a big boost. Simple fixes like giving them scout usr will fix vespids as long as the point cost doesn't change.
You want a simple fix for Vespid?
Assault 2.
Done.
no, not done. their "diamon hard claws" hit as hard as a guardsmen with a pointy stick; they either need to excise that bit of fluff or give them rending.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Fine then. Do what GW always does when it can't think of a good rule - give it Rending.
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Post by: agnosto
Yeah, just give them a special rule that their close combat attacks are AP3 but not power attacks. That way they're meq hunters but don't get past GWs favorite rule, FnP.
They'll probably give Kroot FnP because every army has FnP these days. Makes one wonder why they bother with armor anyway...
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Post by: Reprisal
Feel no pain with either no armor save or a 6+? Sounds foolish to me.
Some of these rumors look pretty cool. We tried the railgun idea out, and it's pretty nasty. More guns are the last thing a Tau player needs.
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Post by: Pizzathehutt
Hey, hopefully we will all be able to get those old tau armies out again. Good to see that there may be some new plastic stuff on the way.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Kommissar Kel wrote:
It's almost like GW didn't learn anything with the stingwings when they wrote the rules for the new hot-shot lasguns; nobody wants a short range AP3 weapon on a model that cannot also damage a marine in close combat.
Its called supporting your force. Your vespids shouldn't have to worry about cc, because the rest of your army should have helped neutralized the threat. Its really not that hard a concept. Seriously, I've used vespids plenty (although not recently) and never had a problem with them. If anything, they were probably one of the best units in my army.
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Post by: warboss
H.B.M.C. wrote:Fine then. Do what GW always does when it can't think of a good rule - give it Rending.
except in this case it makes sense. usually i'm right there with you to criticize GW and put a giant pile of salt on a thread but you really do need a big heaping dose of glass half full.
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Post by: avantgarde
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
In a vaccum all Tau units are sub par, the idea is to combine them with everyone's multiplier, the pathfinder.
At BS 3: 11 Vespid kill about 3-4 marines during the shooting phase or deals 1-2 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 4: 11 Vespid kill about 4-5 marines during the shooting phase or deals 2-3 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 5: 11 Vespid kill about 6 marines during the shooting phase or deals 3 wounds to a TMC.
If they fired 2 shots each, 182 points worth of vespid would nearly wipe a marine squad at BS 3 , reduce it to 1 at BS 4 and wipe it at BS 5. TMC would also not be a problem as statically they could kill a carnifex every turn with pathfinders or reduce them down to 1-2 wounds without pathfinders.
:Sigh: I think GW uses statistic as a means of figuring how much a point should cost point wise. Unfortunately the idea of being worth it in a specific situation if all goes according to plan, auto-dooms it. How often do things go to plan.
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Post by: Acardia
Tau already are very strong against Mech inf, missle pods do well against most transports(land raiders/Monoliths need to be taken out with Railguns, Fusions, EMP)
Even the puny Rail Rifle/Carbines can threaten Trucks/Chimeras/Rhinos
MEQ is their weakness.
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Post by: warboss
QuietOrkmi wrote:In a vaccum all Tau units are sub par, the idea is to combine them with everyone's multiplier, the pathfinder.
At BS 3: 11 Vespid kill about 3-4 marines during the shooting phase or deals 1-2 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 4: 11 Vespid kill about 4-5 marines during the shooting phase or deals 2-3 wounds to a TMC.
At BS 5: 11 Vespid kill about 6 marines during the shooting phase or deals 3 wounds to a TMC.
If they fired 2 shots each, 182 points worth of vespid would nearly wipe a marine squad at BS 3 , reduce it to 1 at BS 4 and wipe it at BS 5. TMC would also not be a problem as statically they could kill a carnifex every turn with pathfinders or reduce them down to 1-2 wounds without pathfinders.
:Sigh: I think GW uses statistic as a means of figuring how much a point should cost point wise. Unfortunately the idea of being worth it in a specific situation if all goes according to plan, auto-dooms it. How often do things go to plan.
yeah, and the same amount of points in marines in the most generic nonspecial form (a tactical squad with a heavy bolter and plasma gun) kills more points worth of vespid (7.78) than the buffed two shot vespid do back (7.33). in exchange for the jump infantry rule (with reroll dangerous terrain), the marines get extra ws/ bs/S and a 3+ save. the vespid are simply overpriced for what they do; the pathfinders don't change that any more than devastators make tactical marines better for their points. you pay separately for each and they don't have to be used in conjunction with each other. vespids need either a major point cost decrease, a major buff, or something midway incorporating them both. if they kept the same point cost, i'd expect base 2 rending attacks (to go along with their two CCW diamond claw fluff) and a 4+ save (hell, they've got full body chitin... that should be the same as carapace IG armor) at a minimum.
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Post by: agnosto
Reprisal wrote:Feel no pain with either no armor save or a 6+? Sounds foolish to me.
Some of these rumors look pretty cool. We tried the railgun idea out, and it's pretty nasty. More guns are the last thing a Tau player needs.
should I have put /sarcasm in there?
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Post by: Trevak Dal
Kilkrazy wrote:There has been lots of fan suggestions for how to change the Tau codex, especially around making Fire Warriors useful for something.
None of it featured Railguns being an SM Libby Magic Power attack.
If Railguns get the rumoured rule, everyone will use nine Broadsides.
...There are people who take less than six (other than Farsight players...)?
For the whole thing about the rail 'ray'...my understanding of it was that it fired a slug at near-the speed of light. Said slug should penetrate multiple units and vehicles/buildings in a straight line. I mean, seriously, are space marines so awesome that Brother Leeroy catches one on the chin and the rest of his fellows bellow revenge-or would Brother Jenkins, Brother Wallace and Brother Bob who were all standing directly behind Brother Leeroy also get torn to atoms from the passage of the high velocity weapon, same with the squad behind them, Chaplin Meyo, and Brother Captain Royce?
Seriously though, look at what Space Marines and Imperial forces have at their disposal (in the game). I thought the Imperium of man was on a decline, fighting tooth and nail for everything they have...but they seem to be doing fine enough to have crap tons of tanks, and armies to go with (and based around) said tanks that despite all their great guns still want to run up and hit somebody with a glowing, chained or magical gak-beater stick.
Tau need to be there to say "Don't bring a knife (no matter how chained or powered) to a gun fight," and "Screw your wall o tanks and infantry". Mech armies (especially marines) have it coming.
Your worlds will burn until their surface is but glass. Your destruction is for the Greater Good, and we are instruments of Its most Glorious Path.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
I had to skip about two pages of thread.
Anyway, the railgun idea is bloody terrible.
The one thing Tau don't need is a high power anti-tank weapon. They already have Broadsides.
What they need is more anti-tank weapons spread among the army apart from the heavy slot. And a bunch of other stuff, as widely discussed in the various "how to fix Tau" threads in DakkaDakka.
Adding a magic death beam to the railgun simply reduces its ability to be the only anti-horde pie plate in the army.
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Post by: Kanluwen
They do have anti-tank weapons spread among the army.
It's called "Markerlights" and "Seeker Missiles".
Tau aren't like the Guard. They don't give Joe a Plasma Gun and Billy+Ray a Rocket Launcher/Lascannon/Whatever. They're also not like the Astartes, giving Brother Octavion a Plasma Gun and Brother RayRay a Rocket Launcher.
Seeker Missiles mounted on vehicles(usually their squad's transports) are supposed to fill a stopgap hole for a response against armour if needed, while Crisis/Broadside Suits and Hammerheads or Piranhas with Fusion Blasters are the ones actually actively supposed to be engaging armoured vehicles.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Markerlight + Seeker missile is not a weapon, it is a weapon system.
It is not spread out among the army but concentrated in specific places such as vehicles and pathfinders. It is expensive compared to plasm guns and stuff, though obiously it has a longer range.
Yes, crisis suits have fusion guns, they also have all the other support weapons which in IG and SM armies are on the vehicles and infantry. That is one of the problems with Tau.
I don't advocate it be solved by giving support weapons to FW, but I do think crisis suits should be a bit cheaper and available in larger quantities.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Fire Warrior squad leaders can take Markerlights, can they not?
There's your "spread among the army".
I'm not really sure how they can make Crisis Suits a bit cheaper and be available in larger quantities without really futzing over the other unit choices to be frank.
I can see Stealth Suits maybe becoming Troops though.
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Post by: Acardia
Kanluwen wrote:Fire Warrior squad leaders can take Markerlights, can they not?
There's your "spread among the army".
I'm not really sure how they can make Crisis Suits a bit cheaper and be available in larger quantities without really futzing over the other unit choices to be frank.
I can see Stealth Suits maybe becoming Troops though.
IF take a unit of 12 FW then you can have a unit of Crisis suits as troops, not taking up another slut like IG HW teams do, no special issue gak for them and a little cheaper 5-10 points base. However make the elite ones BS4 at same current cost.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Acardia wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Fire Warrior squad leaders can take Markerlights, can they not?
There's your "spread among the army".
I'm not really sure how they can make Crisis Suits a bit cheaper and be available in larger quantities without really futzing over the other unit choices to be frank.
I can see Stealth Suits maybe becoming Troops though.
IF take a unit of 12 FW then you can have a unit of Crisis suits as troops, not taking up another slut like IG HW teams do, no special issue gak for them and a little cheaper 5-10 points base. However make the elite ones BS4 at same current cost.
IG heavy weapon squads are the same stats, same basic equipment(barring the y'know...heavy weapons), etc and require being taken in a Platoon of Guardsmen. You can't take Heavy Weapon Squads without a Platoon of basic Guardsmen
Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors don't really fit the same mold here.
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
IMHO, Tau should be built as the bridge between IG and Space marines with the following in mind...
Tau need to be there to say "Don't bring a knife (no matter how chained or powered) to a gun fight," and "Screw your wall o tanks and infantry". Mech armies (especially marines) have it coming.
Your worlds will burn until their surface is but glass. Your destruction is for the Greater Good, and we are instruments of Its most Glorious Path.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Kanluwen wrote:Fire Warrior squad leaders can take Markerlights, can they not?
There's your "spread among the army".
I'm not really sure how they can make Crisis Suits a bit cheaper and be available in larger quantities without really futzing over the other unit choices to be frank.
I can see Stealth Suits maybe becoming Troops though.
No, they have to pay to be upgraded to Shas'Ui and pay to have a marketlight too. Since the markerlight is a heavy weapon, using it stops the squad moving. So that's 40 points per marketlight hit, before you add the cost of a missile.
Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not really sure how they can make Crisis Suits a bit cheaper and be available in larger quantities without really futzing over the other unit choices to be frank.
.
Yes I agree this could be a problem, but that is why GW spend so much time and effort designing and testing rules. Ha ha.
TBH there are a lots of variables to play with, one of them being ways to make Fire Warriors not irrelevant. I am sure it is not impossible.
However this thread is not the place to rehearse all those points.
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Post by: Jayden63
I have to disagree with everyone who says that the rail gun is good enough as is. It USED to be good enough, but now its nothing more than par for the course.
When the railgun first came out. It was one of the defining elements in the Tau army. A ranged S10 weapon (ap 1 didn't mean that much back then). Before that S10 was saved for things like the demolisher cannons when it was all still barrage/ordnance or actual guessing of ranges. But a direct fire 72" range gun? It was the icon of showing the Tau's superior technology.
Now who has S10 weapons? Everyone, and in multiple places. Hell, the SW codex has a guy throwing a S10 weapon. Nids have that psychic lance shot, marines can call down S10 orbital bombardments. Its everywhere you look now. And don't even get me started on AP1 Most new weapons are now AP1 because of the lack of forethought going into the vehicle damage tables and the effect it would have on the metagame.
The Railgun needs something to bring it back as the icon of superior fire power. Yeah, I'm a Tau fanboy, don't care. Each new codex for the last few years have chipped away at the Tau's position as top shooty dog and it sucks. We still have 0 HTH, and in any new codex we probably still will have 0 real HTH, so they should be better than most at something.
Fluff is a part of this game too ya know. Sadly very few people fear the hammerhead anymore because it just isn't what it used to be.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
I think I would rather the Railgun become a Melta-lance weapon then be a line of sight weapon.
And as for seeker missiles, anyone else think that they should come standard (for no extra cost) on all Tau vehicles? I suppose that makes the Skyray somewhat redundant, but that could easily be fixed (reduced points cost, transport capacity, enhanced markerlights, anti-skimmer rules ala hydras).
I would also support Crisis Suits becoming a troops choice purchased with Firewarriors. That would help eliminate competition between Crisis and Stealth Suits (meaning more people would take stealth suits since they wouldn't be giving up a precious unit of crisis suits).
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Just to correct a misonception: FNP doesnt care what your armour save is, you only DONT get FNP if it is AP1 or AP2, or always ignores armour saves, or causes ID. Otherwise plaguebearers would only get an armour save against AP-....
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Post by: Fango
How about some dang grenades for the kroot? I mean, their only CC element cant assault anything in cover without getting ripped to shreds before they get to land a single blow. The models COME WITH GRENADES for crying out loud! I REALLY want to love Kroot, I mean outflank is awesome! But using them to assault a unit holding an objective in terrain? Say bye-bye, birdman.
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Post by: Sidstyler
Due to certain men of mystery ( lol) I'm forced to call " bs" on every single rumor until official proof surfaces in the form of codex scans or clear, non-shopped photos.
I really hope it's true though, Tau are very much a one-list army right now...and that one list is really hard to actually win with. They could really use some new life breathed into them, some new interesting models and rules that don't suck. If GW can give me a good 5th edition Tau codex in August with some cool new models to go with it (please nothing sculpted by whoever did Daemons/Beastmen), then all the past Marine-pimpage will be forgiven. 
I don't see what's wrong with the supercannon, either. Sounds about on-par with every other 5th edition codex if you ask me.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
warboss wrote:except in this case it makes sense.
I know it makes sense. In fact, ever since Vespid first entered 40K I've been a big proponent of them being one of the few Tau units that should be able to fight in HTH well and shoot well. Their current lack of damage in both arena makes that impossible. Rending and Assault 2 would go a long way to fixing that. warboss wrote:usually i'm right there with you to criticize GW and put a giant pile of salt on a thread but you really do need a big heaping dose of glass half full.
I'm the one who's telling everyone to not just dismiss these rumours simply because there's no such thing as a 'crazy' rumour any more. Not since 5th.
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Meh. That railgun rumour seems bogus. Makes sense, but fire prisms and lascannons should get it too
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Post by: megatrons2nd
Samus_aran115 wrote:Meh. That railgun rumour seems bogus. Makes sense, but fire prisms and lascannons should get it too
Not really. A laser, though capable of penetrating armor, vaporizes armor and bakes crew, but diffuses exponentially after striking surfaces and will probably not go much past the inital target with any chance of doing any real damage.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
How? Why?
A Fire Prism fires a dispersed (yes even in "focused" mode) bolt of energy, hence the blast. A lascannon fires a short burst of photons, which lose their energy/disperse once they contact another surface.
A railgun is a solid projectile accelerated to several times the speed of sound. When it hits and object it can only bleed off so much of its kinetic energy due to its small size, thus it keeps on going... and going... and going...
Which is kinda why I like the rumor so much (even though I doubt its validity) since that is the way it would actually function IRL.
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Post by: Samus_aran115
Never mind then
I was thinking it was some sort of laser :3
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Post by: focusedfire
Don't like the proposed rail-ray rule. A solid shot being fired in a straight line at nearby target would go into the dirt a short distance later. Go ahead and say it, "(Gasp) " ff" expects real world physics to play a part in the rule design....Heathen. "
I just think that the Tau are going to get more of a rework thant what has been posted as rumour in this thread(Look to a fair amount of re-shuffling in the FOC).
When rumours such as these come out, I take them with the white granular subtance that is bad for my BP. In the end it doesn't make much difference. If the rumors prove to be true, I will play my Tau. If the rumors are wrong, I will still play my Tau.
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Post by: AlexHolker
Samus_aran115 wrote:I was thinking it was some sort of laser :3
That doesn't contradict what Chaos said. A laser works by heating up the target until something bad happens. A kinetic penetrator works by punching a hole in the target.
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Post by: Sidstyler
Can't say the same for myself focusedfire, lol. If the codex sucks I'll just shelve them, since it'll be another 5-6 years before an update and I'm not going to bother.
What I'm afraid of is that the codex will actually be really good, and then 6th edition comes out a year later and turns it into crap again. 
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Post by: chaos0xomega
focusedfire wrote:Don't like the proposed rail-ray rule. A solid shot being fired in a straight line at nearby target would go into the dirt a short distance later. Go ahead and say it, "(Gasp) " ff" expects real world physics to play a part in the rule design....Heathen. "
If by short you mean several miles... Seriously, I don't think people have a solid understanding of just how fast a railgun round travels, we're talking hypersonic velocities here. The real world prototype tested by the US Navy sometime back fired a projectile at 7 times the speed of sound, and that is considered underpowered compared to what they want to use when the weapon goes into production (we're talking 10+ times the speed of sound). Hell the Yugoslavs supposedly hit around 15x the speed of sound in their tests back in the 80s. You could potentially fire clean through a heavily armored vehicle (not that hard) and still have enough speed for the projectile to continue over the horizon (about 13 miles at sea level).
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Post by: AlexHolker
chaos0xomega wrote:If by short you mean several miles... Seriously, I don't think people have a solid understanding of just how fast a railgun round travels, we're talking hypersonic velocities here.
I assume he was talking about the "in a straight line" bit. A turret mounted railgun on a hovervehicle will be aiming downwards at most targets, which means the slug will be burrowing into the ground not that far behind the target.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
It doesn't matter what real railguns can or can't do.
This is a game. What is needed is rules that make the Tau army competitive, different to the other armies, and true to their own design concept.
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Post by: Trasvi
What I'm most excited about there is plastic kroot hounds it's damn difficult making a Kroot Mercenary army when hounds cost $22AU for 12 points.
Railgun rumour sounds plausible; potentially overpowered and definitely not well thought out, just like most other new GW rules. As others have said; Tau don't have an issue with LoS Anti-Tank firepower. They do have an issue with lack of template weapons and lack of access to mid-range S6/7/8 firepower. Amongst other things.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kilkrazy wrote: ...and true to their own design concept.
Isn't their design concept ' a small tiny Empire in the south-east fringes of the galaxy that the Imperium could annihilate very easily if they could ever be bothered'? And, really, they play to that concept quite well. Trasvi wrote:What I'm most excited about there is plastic kroot hounds it's damn difficult making a Kroot Mercenary army when hounds cost $22AU for 12 points.
You're still paying Australian prices for GW models? Why?
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Post by: Kilkrazy
No, the tabletop game is different.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
From their fluff?
Well... that's a bad thing.
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Post by: Red Corsair
I don't understand why people are bringing real world physics up as a valid argument for the rail gun rumor when nothing else in 40k is physically feasable, do I have to use orks and their waaagh fueled technology or should I say lack of tech.
If you want to use physics at least be accurate, a rail gun acts like any other fired projectile except it does not use explosive charges to fire a propellant, it uses magnetism as a slingshot, and if a rail round hits a target, even if it punches through, the odds of it continuing on its original path are laughable, it would still veer off, regardless of how fast its moving.... physics in 40k isn't worth mentioning.
its a cool concept regardless, but it just seems like it would be broken in a large scale game, especially considering how LOS could be broken apart...."oh i will target that bunker just so I can hit the whirlwind behind it I can't see....no really its the bunker im angry with."
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Post by: Kroothawk
Red Corsair wrote:"oh i will target that bunker just so I can hit the whirlwind behind it I can't see....no really its the bunker im angry with."
Difficult to hide a Whirlwind behind a bunker
Anyway, what again was the topic?
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Red Corsair wrote:
If you want to use physics at least be accurate, a rail gun acts like any other fired projectile except it does not use explosive charges to fire a propellant, it uses magnetism as a slingshot, and if a rail round hits a target, even if it punches through, the odds of it continuing on its original path are laughable, it would still veer off, regardless of how fast its moving.... physics in 40k isn't worth mentioning.
Tell that to the US Navy, I'm sure they would value your scientific input which invalidates their actual test results. The measured deflection of the projectiles path was negligible over small distances in most testing done, except against really thick/strong armor. This is largely because the projectile turned most solid matter to plasma as it passed through it, leaving very little to interfere with its flight path. This fits perfectly with the "until glancing hit" part of the rumor, and fits just fine with the Tau's original design philosophy.
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Post by: johnscott10
The rumour for the rail gun travels until getting a glancing hit seems somewhat stupid imo.
Surely a glancing hit would still allow it to travel fairly fast as opposed to hitting armour bang on.
I know that the glancing hit could make it spin off and bury itself into the ground, but it does somewhat sound stupid imo.
EDIT: Although given the Tau is a technoligically advanced race, i suppose that could somewhat justify the rail gun rumour.
Even though I intend to play Tau, this is my thought on the rail gun.
EDIT 2: Fixing spelling errors.
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Post by: Sidstyler
I don't care if it's perfectly "realistic" or not, it sounds like an interesting rule either way. The glancing hit thing is likely just for balance.
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Post by: youbedead
johnscott10 wrote:The rumour for the rail gun travels until getting a glancing hit seems somewhat stupid imo.
Surely a glancing hit would still allow it to travel fairly fast as opposed to hitting armour bang on.
I know that the glancing hit could make it spin off and bury itself into the ground, but it does somewhat sound stupid imo.
EDIT: Although given the Tau is a technoligically advanced race, i suppose that could somewhat justify the rail gun rumour.
Even though I intend to play Tau, this is my thought on the rail gun.
EDIT 2: Fixing spelling errors.
I just had a funny thought, on a glancing hit roll a scatter dice to determine where it goes, and it comes right back at you
like this
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Post by: johnscott10
youbedead wrote:johnscott10 wrote:The rumour for the rail gun travels until getting a glancing hit seems somewhat stupid imo.
Surely a glancing hit would still allow it to travel fairly fast as opposed to hitting armour bang on.
I know that the glancing hit could make it spin off and bury itself into the ground, but it does somewhat sound stupid imo.
EDIT: Although given the Tau is a technoligically advanced race, i suppose that could somewhat justify the rail gun rumour.
Even though I intend to play Tau, this is my thought on the rail gun.
EDIT 2: Fixing spelling errors.
I just had a funny thought, on a glancing hit roll a scatter dice to determine where it goes, and it comes right back at you
like this
Hahaha yea thats an interesting thought, what would happen if you got a direct hit tho?? Would it continue in a straight line or would the small arrow still determine the direction it goes
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Post by: Scottywan82
Oh, that hurts just to look at....
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Post by: Samus_aran115
It doesn't help that it keeps playing over and over
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Post by: agnosto
Ouch. melon upside the....well, melon. ouch.
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Post by: Reecius
I always laugh when people start talking about how unrealistic something is.
Who cares?! So my army of Fish Faced aliens and Space Chickens' super rail guns wouldn't do what the game mechanics say they would!
Yeah, nothing in this game is realistic, it isn't meant to be. It is an abstraction of reality.
And what the Tau really need is a power boost. I think that rule for the Hammerhead is good because it:
1.) Is great anti light armor spam which we see now a days.
2.) Gives Tau a reason to actually use a Hammerhead over the vastly superior broadsides.
So bring it on, I say! That is a cool mechanic that will give Tau the hammer of God ranged weapons that they should have.
I'd also like to see sniper drones integrated into Fire Warrior teams as an upgrade. One guy becomes the spotter and the squad can take up to three sniper drones. His networked marker light also effects the entire squad's shooting.
Don't require Pathfinders to take a devilfish.
More options for the hammer head tank chassis.
Move sky ray's to fast attack and give them the ability to shoot up to 6 missiles a turn with marker light hits, not 6 total.
More weapon options for piranhas.
Hazard suits in the standard codex.
That is all wish listing, but those are changes I would like to see at any rate.
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Post by: HoverBoy
Some, infantry ASS that makes pathfinders relentless would make them awesome, pricing it correctly might be a problem tho.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Reecius wrote:.
I'd also like to see sniper drones integrated into Fire Warrior teams as an upgrade. One guy becomes the spotter and the squad can take up to three sniper drones. His networked marker light also effects the entire squad's shooting.
I'd rather they remain a separate choice, the Tau are still meant to be a highly mobile force, Sniper Drones would curtail that a good bit. Or make them a separate choice purchased with the Firewarriors (I.E. - occupies the same Troop slot but is a separate unit). I could see that as being a very "Tau" method of operating. The highly mobile firewarriors move around doing their thing while the heavy weapons sit back and provide long-range precise fire support. They need to fix the Sniper Drones though, the controller should have a control radius within which the sniper drones can travel, so they don't have to maintain the 2" coherency with the controller. That kills the units practicality.
More options for the hammer head tank chassis.
I would expect it. The trend has been to give more options in every codex thus far, but truthfully, the Forgeworld alternative weapons SUCK. They need a big boost to make them worth taking (with the exception of the Fusion Cannon and I think the Plasma Cannon).
Move sky ray's to fast attack and give them the ability to shoot up to 6 missiles a turn with marker light hits, not 6 total.
I can get behind this. Alternatively give the Skyray a heavier variant of hte Seeker Missile (say a small blast version). Really, seeker missiles are a dime a dozen in the codex, who the hell would waste an FA slot on a vehicle whose sole purpose is to carry them?
More weapon options for piranhas.
Indeed. I want my TX-42s damnit.
Hazard suits in the standard codex.
Would be nice.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Since this is a News and Rumours forum I will direct Tau players to the several long "What to do about Tau" threads in the Proposed Rules forum.
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Post by: Red Corsair
@Reecius
If you read what I said thoroughly I said nothing in the game is realistic.....so people should not use realism as an argument to validate a broken rule....
To me the real issue is still in regards to LOS all anyone would have to do is target a soft unit in order to hit the target they really want to hit, its stupid,. As I said before, a player could park a HH behind a bunker and punch holes through its weak armor 12 in order to hit targets it could not see behind it... its bogus, the idea sounds cool and I will agree that is probably something the tech savvy tau could take advantage of, but it still blows up the rules for LOS with a direct fired weapon.
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Post by: Ratbarf
Are they not skimmers and as such can simply shoot over the bunker anways? Or am I missing something that only happened in 4th, I wouldn't know, I haven't played any skimmers yet in 5th where that kind of thing came up.
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Post by: Leggy
Red Corsair wrote:
To me the real issue is still in regards to LOS all anyone would have to do is target a soft unit in order to hit the target they really want to hit, its stupid,. As I said before, a player could park a HH behind a bunker and punch holes through its weak armor 12 in order to hit targets it could not see behind it... its bogus, the idea sounds cool and I will agree that is probably something the tech savvy tau could take advantage of, but it still blows up the rules for LOS with a direct fired weapon.
I'd say that instead of this tactic making the special rules overpowered, instead it's wasting the potential of such a powerful weapon. You've got a (at a guess) 72" S10 line of death, and you're only using it to hit 2 models? Think bigger Red Corsair, think bigger *insert evil Mwahahaha laugh*
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Post by: micahaphone
1) How's about in a turn that the sky ray doesn't shoot, it can reload D3 or, if we're lucky, D6 missiles.
2) A normal rapid fire gun is 24" range, with double shot at 12", right? So double shot is at 1/2 the range of a normal rapid fire gun. But a tau pulse rifle has a range of 30", so it would make sense for the double shot range to be 15", which I'd like to see. This will, probably never happen, because 12" is also assault range, with 6" movement phase, and 6" assault phase. It'd be nice, though.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
The 15 inch Rapid Fire range is what I have advocated for months as a fix to Fire Warriors.
Plenty of dedicated assault troops have over 12 inch assault range so it does not make the Fire Warrior immune to assault.
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Post by: micahaphone
Kilkrazy wrote:The 15 inch Rapid Fire range is what I have advocated for months as a fix to Fire Warriors.
Plenty of dedicated assault troops have over 12 inch assault range so it does not make the Fire Warrior immune to assault.
Good point, but can you imagine how much some people would complain? "Wat mah spess mehrines can't use the chainssorde to go choppa choppa and make the fish people into sush???? Naoo Fare!!!"
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
Red Corsair wrote:@Reecius
If you read what I said thoroughly I said nothing in the game is realistic.....so people should not use realism as an argument to validate a broken rule....
To me the real issue is still in regards to LOS all anyone would have to do is target a soft unit in order to hit the target they really want to hit, its stupid,. As I said before, a player could park a HH behind a bunker and punch holes through its weak armor 12 in order to hit targets it could not see behind it... its bogus, the idea sounds cool and I will agree that is probably something the tech savvy tau could take advantage of, but it still blows up the rules for LOS with a direct fired weapon.
You do realize that it is possible to take 4 models that do just that in the Sw codex... Jaws: If I hit you with enough of them, eventually you will roll a  ...
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Post by: Reecius
@Chaos0xomega
I like those addendum. Fire Warriors need a boost, and being able to leave a sniper team behind would be ace. Just get them out of heavy, they shouldn't compete with Broadised sand HH's.
@Red Corsair
I wasn't aiming my rant at your particularly. I didn't mean to offend. Just in general, it always cracks me up when people act intellectually superior (not saying this applies to you) when they point out something silly in the game. Such as: Titans would collapse under their own weight, or Nids' anatomy is all wrong, or Termie armor wouldn't fit, etc. etc. etc.
It's one thing to joke about that stuff, but when people get in a huff over the unrealistic nature of the game, I laugh. Like, who cares? Suspend your disbelief and just enjoy the game. No one thinks that someone on the net is Jhonny Smartman because he points out something unrealistic in a Science Fantasy game of toy soldiers.
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Post by: micahaphone
QuietOrkmi wrote:Red Corsair wrote:@Reecius
If you read what I said thoroughly I said nothing in the game is realistic.....so people should not use realism as an argument to validate a broken rule....
To me the real issue is still in regards to LOS all anyone would have to do is target a soft unit in order to hit the target they really want to hit, its stupid,. As I said before, a player could park a HH behind a bunker and punch holes through its weak armor 12 in order to hit targets it could not see behind it... its bogus, the idea sounds cool and I will agree that is probably something the tech savvy tau could take advantage of, but it still blows up the rules for LOS with a direct fired weapon.
You do realize that it is possible to take 4 models that do just that in the Sw codex... Jaws: If I hit you with enough of them, eventually you will roll a ...
Maybe a balance w/ some rule about it not continuing on after hitting infantry, or not being able to shoot through a building?
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Kilkrazy wrote:The 15 inch Rapid Fire range is what I have advocated for months as a fix to Fire Warriors.
What I have been advocating is a dual-profile weapon with Heavy 2/3(subject to balancing) at 30" and Rapid Fire. That way unlike other forces, Tau will maintain a more or less constant rate of fire regardless of range.
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Post by: Sidstyler
I don't see how the line would be overpowered at all. We already have JotWW which does pretty much the same thing (just not against vehicles). The only way I could see it being ridiculously destructive is if the entire opposing army's vehicles are all neatly lined up and just begging for it. And even then, trying to get into a position to hit all of them with one shot would be difficult.
It just sounds like a neat bonus for the hammerhead. Cool if you're ever in a position to take advantage of it, but most of the time it probably won't come into play.
Or maybe I'm wrong, I dunno. I'm not a game designer...and neither are most of you. 
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Well, the way I see it, is that when the Railgun was introduced to the game, it was meant to be THE most post powerful ranged anti-tank weapon in the game. Since it's introduction a few major things have occured: AP1 no longer upgrades a glancing hit to a penetrating hit, and a railgun now rolls at -1 on a vehicle damage chart on a glancing hit. This makes Railguns less likely to destroy a vehicle overall (yes, even on a penetrating hit, while the AP1 gives you a +1 to the damage roll, the fact that you have to roll one higher on the armor penetration roll then you did before to get a penetrating hit kinda negates that).
AND THEN, GW went even further. Not only are Railguns no longer as efficient at doing their job, but then they introduced Zoanthropes with a S10AP1 Melta-Lance weapon. Yes. A weapon that auto-glances most vehicles in the game within what is it 9"? And virtually guaranteed to glance everything else up to 18"away? If Tyranids can have such a weapon, why can't Tau have something better?
Is it overpowered? A little yeah. Do the Tau deserve it? Definitely.
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Post by: Ratbarf
If it was able to hit every unit and not just Vehicles that would be even more over powered but oh so sweet. Draw a 72 inch line and everything on it gets hit by Str 10 AP 1 shot in continual order from the barrel until it gets a glancing hit on a vehicle.... Drool.
I would love to play against SW then, eat that JotWW!
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Post by: Brother SRM
If it got minus one strength for every target it passes through that could balance it a little as it loses momentum. Whatever, still a cool idea.
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Post by: mrblacksunshine_1978
Brother SRM wrote:If it got minus one strength for every target it passes through that could balance it a little as it loses momentum. Whatever, still a cool idea.[/quote\]
i would have to agree, becuase the fact that its a machine and not a Pyshic power, plus you can state that every 12' this strengh of the weapon is minus 1
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Post by: Sidstyler
So the railgun would effectively be useless firing at anything more than 24" away? Yeah, I think I'd rather have GW write the rules.
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Post by: Absolutionis
I know I'm hate to the Tau-hate rumor-salting party, but I'm yet again upset that GW would take some unique gimmick of the Eldar and give it to another race. Imperial Guard got super Falcons, Blood Angels got super Wave Serpents, Tyranids got lances, and not Tau are getting super-Vibrocannons?
I hope this is all just wishlisting. I can't wait until Codex: S3/T3 Skittles Marines comes out and they have nothing special left.
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Post by: Sidstyler
"Waah, Eldar aren't the best at everything!"
Yeah, I suppose Tau shouldn't change at all and should just continue sucking so they don't step on anyone's toes.
Sorry if I sound like an ass, I just get real defensive when people start "hating" on Tau. Seeing as how it was my first army, currently my only army since I lack the cash to build another one, and I've spent the past 3 years collecting and playing them. So it's fair to say I'm pretty well-invested in Tau and don't want another gakky codex.
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Post by: Red Corsair
The only balance i can think of is if the hammerhead had to remain stationary before using the rail gun ray of doom.....that way opponents were forced to think how they moved/placed units on their own turn...
@Reecius
I understand and agree....my initial point sounds similar to your stance... the game falls apart if you over think it.....
I just hate when people try to ignore the game effect and how unbalanced it can all get and try to use real life situations to justify a fiction based game... if it all rounds out in the end.... Im game, GW sucks at this of course...
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Post by: chaos0xomega
Corsair, are you kidding? Remain stationary? How is that going to help the Tau in the slightest? Who is that really going to benefit? That would be like putting a final nail in the Hammerheads coffin.
At the end of the day, you CAN use real life to justify a fiction based game, as long as you remember to use points cost to appropriately balance it out, but in a vaccuum, if that was the only change to the Tau Codex, even if they kept the price of the HH the same, it still wouldn't be enough to fix Tau.
Absolutionis - As a fellow Eldar player: Deal with it.
Besides, IG did not get "superfalcons" they got a skimmer transport, thats it. It is nowhere near as survivable as a Falcon with holofields and not nearly as mobile as a Falcon with Star Engines. Yeah, it might be able to carry a somewhat heavier armament and more troops, but I've never really been impressed by a Valk like I have by a Falc. Besides, Valks have been around through Forgeworld for a very very long time. The only real similarity is that its a skimmer transport. Guess what, Tau and Dark Eldar have those too...
Nor did BA get a "super wave serpent," all what it does is ignore the melta effect, guess what necrons have it too, that rule is hardly new. Besides, the stormraven costs almost as much as a Landraider, and is much easier to take down.
Lances are also hardly anything special... Dark Eldar have had them for over a decade.
And really? You're complaining about someone else having weapons function like Vibrocannons? Do you actually ever USE Vibrocannons? I, being an Eldar player... in an area where 50% of the 40k population also plays Eldar... have NEVER SEEN ANYONE USE A VIBROCANNON. So... don't complain.
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Post by: Eidolon
I think remain stationary would balance a deffrolla that can reach out and touch you from across the table. Sure its like an anti vehicle jaws. But jaws was pretty stupid from GWs part. Sure we have learned to live with it, but it was a bad idea, and one bad idea shouldnt be followed by many more identical ideas. I wouldnt be surprised though if it could do something where it fires the railgun into the first vehicle, and then hits the second one with a krak missile strength shot, and stops there. Losing the ap1 and S10 would balance it out. Automatically Appended Next Post: micahaphone wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:The 15 inch Rapid Fire range is what I have advocated for months as a fix to Fire Warriors.
Plenty of dedicated assault troops have over 12 inch assault range so it does not make the Fire Warrior immune to assault.
Good point, but can you imagine how much some people would complain? "Wat mah spess mehrines can't use the chainssorde to go choppa choppa and make the fish people into sush???? Naoo Fare!!!"
I agree, space marine players are 12 year old silly-billies with no sense of game balance or basic tactics! Automatically Appended Next Post: Sidstyler wrote:"Waah, Eldar aren't the best at everything!"
Yeah, I suppose Tau shouldn't change at all and should just continue sucking so they don't step on anyone's toes.
Sorry if I sound like an ass, I just get real defensive when people start "hating" on Tau. Seeing as how it was my first army, currently my only army since I lack the cash to build another one, and I've spent the past 3 years collecting and playing them. So it's fair to say I'm pretty well-invested in Tau and don't want another gakky codex.
He raises a fairly valid point. A lot of the cool things eldar had have been handed away to other armies. This is largely due to their book essentially being a reprint of the 3rd edition codex in almost all things. As far as tau sucking, def not. They arent the best army out there. But tau can bring some solid tools to the table and really ruin someone elses day. The problem is a lot of tau players havent advanced tactics in the last few years, so are still stuck scratching their heads when fish of fury tactics dont work anymore. And hammerheads, which were never that great, are just a bad choice. What will probably happen, as seems to have been the trend, is gw will make a new or obscure choice boss, and broadsides and hammerheads will start to suck. Look at the introduction of the tyrannofex, tervigon, and trygon in the nid book, and the weakening of hive tyrants and carnifexs. I personally hope they keep the book the same. If I start a new army itll be tau or demons, and I like the current codex.
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Post by: juraigamer
Eidolon wrote: The problem is a lot of tau players havent advanced tactics in the last few years, so are still stuck scratching their heads when fish of fury tactics dont work anymore.
The only other tactic to emerge has been ninja tau, which doesn't even do that well. It's not that the tau players aren't thinking, it's that there isn't anything else that allows them to level the playing field.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Chaos omega - EVER weapon got less powerful at taking down vehicles compared to 4th, even melta are on averae slightly worse off.
The railgun is still THE *at range* Antitank. Melta close range.
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
From a design standpoint, this is how I see Tau:
We are the army that is suppose to be the shooty army... unfortunately we have some glaring weakness:
1.) BS 3:
Hitting half the time with our elite troops, sure we can raise it potentially to 5 with markerlights but then we have to invest points into a overpriced transport (more on that later) and stationary troops (more on that later)
2.) Cover
We have the option of taking a fair amount of S7 AP4 and S6 Ap2 guns with our elite slots and a lot of S10 Ap 1 with our heavy support choices... unfortunately it is easy to get a cover save in this game that would give back a save to those we paid a heavy price to take away.
Luckily we have a way of dealing with cover. We used to be the only army with a way of dealing with cover but with our new IG, they now can deal with cover by shooting more shots, and forcing re-rolls... All without taking having to invest points into a overpriced transport (more on that later) and stationary troops (more on that later)
3.) Speed
With the new BA codex, the new Tyranid codex, we can no longer rely on our 6" move JSJ or our 12" multi-tracker vehicles to stay out of the deadly assault range. With all our speed, we become a gunline army with only a dozen T3 4+ bodies to duke things out with...
In order to deal with point 1 and 2, we have to take pathfinders... I personally love pathfinders but anyone who has a clue on how the Tau army functions will know to take them out first. Without our Pathfinders we quickly become ineffectual IG when fighting things that generate cover saves (Mech Orks, BA, Tyranids)
4.) Cost
When building a larger list, we are often taxed for we have to spend over 360 points on the following:
A high priority infantry unit consisting of about 5 T3 4+ wounds and an overpriced Transport. Imagine if the Chimeria had 1 more side armor or the rhino had 1 more front armor but had to pay 40 more points. Sure we can pay 5 more to make them obscured but getting within 12" is no longer the problem it used to be, and now we are spending 45 points for it. In addition, Transports by themselves are 2 KP. Imagine for a moment that with all the disadvantages mention earlier about dealing with hitting our target, dealing with cover without pathfinders, and being caught easily. Now we are effectively lose annihilation matches because blowing up a devilfish and wiping the 5 man squad inside gives you 3KP.
On the Position Relay... The only thing GW has not given to anyone else, essentially it is a way to keep our glaring weaknesses off the table.
The only advantage I can think that Tau players have over other armies is that if you win with Tau, you did it by being a better player. Personally I am a little tired of playing an army that only has the advantage when a expert is behind it and a dimwit is behind the opposing army.
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Post by: Thortek
Tau are my only fully painted army...I would love for a new 'Dex next year.
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Post by: DEATH89
Eidolon wrote:I think remain stationary would balance a deffrolla that can reach out and touch you from across the table. Sure its like an anti vehicle jaws. But jaws was pretty stupid from GWs part. Sure we have learned to live with it, but it was a bad idea, and one bad idea shouldnt be followed by many more identical ideas. I wouldnt be surprised though if it could do something where it fires the railgun into the first vehicle, and then hits the second one with a krak missile strength shot, and stops there. Losing the ap1 and S10 would balance it out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
micahaphone wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:The 15 inch Rapid Fire range is what I have advocated for months as a fix to Fire Warriors.
Plenty of dedicated assault troops have over 12 inch assault range so it does not make the Fire Warrior immune to assault.
Good point, but can you imagine how much some people would complain? "Wat mah spess mehrines can't use the chainssorde to go choppa choppa and make the fish people into sush???? Naoo Fare!!!"
I agree, space marine players are 12 year old silly-billies with no sense of game balance or basic tactics!
.
I do hope there's some sarcasm in there young man, as an avid marine player (see my Sig) since my 3rd ed beginnings 11 years ago and who just recently used a 19 man GK army to murder an Ork horde plus vehicles, I really don't think 15" rapid fire would be bad at all, frankly I'd rather see every other codex get an update before Codex Space Marines/Wolves/ BA, so that more other races get played, hell if Battlesuits weren't so bleedin' expensive I'd already have a tau army, I've wanted one for years, only army that really interests me barring Marines/Nids. 
Sorry to preach but that stereotype always hits a nerve
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Post by: Superscope
Here here! i would kill for a tau codex myself. I got a nice 3000pts+ of tau waiting in a red and white box in my room.
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Post by: oldone
Personly i would hope for an SAS type unit for elites so if your not wanting to got the whole battle suit way you could do but make it different from being the same unit just with out the armour.
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Post by: chaos0xomega
nosferatu1001 wrote:Chaos omega - EVER weapon got less powerful at taking down vehicles compared to 4th, even melta are on averae slightly worse off.
The railgun is still THE *at range* Antitank. Melta close range.
The railgun and other AP1 weapons were hit proportionally harder, and definitely much harder than melta weapons were.
And while we're stroking our ego's I have about 10k points of Tau that haven't been used in 2 years...
5580
Post by: Eidolon
DEATH89 wrote:
I do hope there's some sarcasm in there young man, as an avid marine player (see my Sig) since my 3rd ed beginnings 11 years ago and who just recently used a 19 man GK army to murder an Ork horde plus vehicles, I really don't think 15" rapid fire would be bad at all, frankly I'd rather see every other codex get an update before Codex Space Marines/Wolves/ BA, so that more other races get played, hell if Battlesuits weren't so bleedin' expensive I'd already have a tau army, I've wanted one for years, only army that really interests me barring Marines/Nids.
Sorry to preach but that stereotype always hits a nerve
Of course it was sarcasm. I also play marines in addition to nids and eldar. I just find that anytime some xenos player complains about his codex he decides to bitch about marines being incredibly broken and how stupid marine players are. Logically that statement could just as easily be
"Wat mah tua can't use the polse rifel to go shoota shoota and make the giant people into slag???? Naoo Fare!!!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
juraigamer wrote:Eidolon wrote: The problem is a lot of tau players havent advanced tactics in the last few years, so are still stuck scratching their heads when fish of fury tactics dont work anymore.
The only other tactic to emerge has been ninja tau, which doesn't even do that well. It's not that the tau players aren't thinking, it's that there isn't anything else that allows them to level the playing field.
Ninja tau is terrible. If I understand it right you have one squad on the table with some beacon, and then you bring in one unit a turn from reserves until its turn 5 and the rest of your army rushes on? How is this remotely effective. Suicide suit squads arent that great, and they generally put out enough firepower at range to justify losing them. Its a crappy gimmick army. So tau went from full mech fish of fury armies and the other tactic discovered was crappier full mech reserve? Ill just hand full board control to my opponent, the last thing the tau need.
I have found that tau are one of the tougher armies in the game to fight, lots of kroot and less worthless upgrades on your guys is the way to go.
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Post by: voidfiend
Changes to Hammerhead Railgun rules. Essentially draws a line across table hitting everything in line. Multiple pen through vehicles, only stopped by a glancing hit.
This would actually make me afraid of Rail Guns, rather than pointing and laughing at them. Which is what I do now.
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Post by: ajefferism
This is a subtle wish, and probably won't be talked about again, but I really wish regular ole Gun Drones were Troop choices (that could take objectives) and were a bit cheaper. Having another viable troop choice besides Firewarriors (nice shooting, but can't keep objectives well and a bit expensive) and Kroot (very cost effective, but paper thin defense unless your guarding a tree). Having a basic troop choice that could jump shoot jump would be great too. Jump away from objective to shoot than jump back to objective to secure it for the win.
Dumping gun drones from your piranhas/devilfishes would be that much better if they could do more than just contest...
Anyone agree?
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
ajefferism wrote:This is a subtle wish, and probably won't be talked about again, but I really wish regular ole Gun Drones were Troop choices (that could take objectives) and were a bit cheaper. Having another viable troop choice besides Firewarriors (nice shooting, but can't keep objectives well and a bit expensive) and Kroot (very cost effective, but paper thin defense unless your guarding a tree). Having a basic troop choice that could jump shoot jump would be great too. Jump away from objective to shoot than jump back to objective to secure it for the win.
Dumping gun drones from your piranhas/devilfishes would be that much better if they could do more than just contest...
Anyone agree?
I don't like the idea of gun drones as scoring. They're mindless robots and all. I do think that gundrones on vehicles shouldn't count for killpoints though. That would balance them better
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
ajefferism wrote:This is a subtle wish, and probably won't be talked about again, but I really wish regular ole Gun Drones were Troop choices (that could take objectives) and were a bit cheaper. Having another viable troop choice besides Firewarriors (nice shooting, but can't keep objectives well and a bit expensive) and Kroot (very cost effective, but paper thin defense unless your guarding a tree). Having a basic troop choice that could jump shoot jump would be great too. Jump away from objective to shoot than jump back to objective to secure it for the win.
Dumping gun drones from your piranhas/devilfishes would be that much better if they could do more than just contest...
Anyone agree?
I don't really see how gun drones would change the Tau troops situation that much. Gun Drones are more expensive, less efficient at shooting, roughly as survivable (when you consider the difficulty they would have claiming cover), in general not all that useful these days.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Eidolon wrote:DEATH89 wrote:
I do hope there's some sarcasm in there young man, as an avid marine player (see my Sig) since my 3rd ed beginnings 11 years ago and who just recently used a 19 man GK army to murder an Ork horde plus vehicles, I really don't think 15" rapid fire would be bad at all, frankly I'd rather see every other codex get an update before Codex Space Marines/Wolves/ BA, so that more other races get played, hell if Battlesuits weren't so bleedin' expensive I'd already have a tau army, I've wanted one for years, only army that really interests me barring Marines/Nids.
Sorry to preach but that stereotype always hits a nerve
Of course it was sarcasm. I also play marines in addition to nids and eldar. I just find that anytime some xenos player complains about his codex he decides to bitch about marines being incredibly broken and how stupid marine players are. Logically that statement could just as easily be
"Wat mah tua can't use the polse rifel to go shoota shoota and make the giant people into slag???? Naoo Fare!!!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
juraigamer wrote:Eidolon wrote: The problem is a lot of tau players havent advanced tactics in the last few years, so are still stuck scratching their heads when fish of fury tactics dont work anymore.
The only other tactic to emerge has been ninja tau, which doesn't even do that well. It's not that the tau players aren't thinking, it's that there isn't anything else that allows them to level the playing field.
Ninja tau is terrible. If I understand it right you have one squad on the table with some beacon, and then you bring in one unit a turn from reserves until its turn 5 and the rest of your army rushes on? How is this remotely effective. Suicide suit squads arent that great, and they generally put out enough firepower at range to justify losing them. Its a crappy gimmick army. So tau went from full mech fish of fury armies and the other tactic discovered was crappier full mech reserve? Ill just hand full board control to my opponent, the last thing the tau need.
I have found that tau are one of the tougher armies in the game to fight, lots of kroot and less worthless upgrades on your guys is the way to go.
How can Tau players be a bit slow, and have only one tactic which doesn't work anyway, but you find the Tau Army one of the harder ones to play against?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:Chaos omega - EVER weapon got less powerful at taking down vehicles compared to 4th, even melta are on averae slightly worse off.
The railgun is still THE *at range* Antitank. Melta close range.
The railgun and other AP1 weapons were hit proportionally harder, and definitely much harder than melta weapons were.
And while we're stroking our ego's I have about 10k points of Tau that haven't been used in 2 years...
What happened is that some armies gained the ability to spam cheap armoured vehicles, and some armies gained the ability to spam cheap anti-tank weapons, but the Tau didn't get either.
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Post by: Red Corsair
The tau need to have larger unit caps for FW, I also think it would be cool if they came up with some sort of support drone for them, sort of like how battle suits can purchase drones.
I agree drones should not give up KP's....thats just stupid.
I think the kroot need a change, maybe to their hunting rifle, I think an assault profile could be a start, either way the ox and hounds need a change.
@chaos omega
Yea I was serious, the rail gun already has a sub munitions round, adding a higher velocity round that would require it to remain stationary would give it balance. opponents would still have to fear it as they would have to place all their armored units on their turn with that round in mind. Sure it would then require thought, but on both sides....
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Post by: micahaphone
DEATH89 wrote:Eidolon wrote:I think remain stationary would balance a deffrolla that can reach out and touch you from across the table. Sure its like an anti vehicle jaws. But jaws was pretty stupid from GWs part. Sure we have learned to live with it, but it was a bad idea, and one bad idea shouldnt be followed by many more identical ideas. I wouldnt be surprised though if it could do something where it fires the railgun into the first vehicle, and then hits the second one with a krak missile strength shot, and stops there. Losing the ap1 and S10 would balance it out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
micahaphone wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:The 15 inch Rapid Fire range is what I have advocated for months as a fix to Fire Warriors.
Plenty of dedicated assault troops have over 12 inch assault range so it does not make the Fire Warrior immune to assault.
Good point, but can you imagine how much some people would complain? "Wat mah spess mehrines can't use the chainssorde to go choppa choppa and make the fish people into sush???? Naoo Fare!!!"
I agree, space marine players are 12 year old silly-billies with no sense of game balance or basic tactics!
.
I do hope there's some sarcasm in there young man, as an avid marine player (see my Sig) since my 3rd ed beginnings 11 years ago and who just recently used a 19 man GK army to murder an Ork horde plus vehicles, I really don't think 15" rapid fire would be bad at all, frankly I'd rather see every other codex get an update before Codex Space Marines/Wolves/ BA, so that more other races get played, hell if Battlesuits weren't so bleedin' expensive I'd already have a tau army, I've wanted one for years, only army that really interests me barring Marines/Nids.
Sorry to preach but that stereotype always hits a nerve
Hey man, look at my sig! I'm a marine player, and love it! The wide variety of units and tactics, the customization, they're awesome! But the truth is that everyone, including the whiny people who hardly know how to play, have them. Sad but true. And, yes, battlesuits are fething expensive, which is why (to me) it makes sense for GW to redo them as EVEN BETTER: because each one costs $30, so a squad of 3 is $120 for 186 points on a fairly well upgraded squad.
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Post by: The Bringer
micahaphone wrote:
Hey man, look at my sig! I'm a marine player, and love it! The wide variety of units and tactics, the customization, they're awesome! But the truth is that everyone, including the whiny people who hardly know how to play, have them. Sad but true. And, yes, battlesuits are fething expensive, which is why (to me) it makes sense for GW to redo them as EVEN BETTER: because each one costs $30, so a squad of 3 is $120 for 186 points on a fairly well upgraded squad.
Well... I buy from a store that sells %20 off... and so can get a squad of three for roughly $55. Anways, they cost $22.50 normally I believe, and even if they did cost $30, 30X3 doesn't equal $120...
But beyond that, they are pretty expensive...
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Post by: Red Corsair
Haha and they say math and science is dead in America.....
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
Red Corsair wrote:
@chaos omega
Yea I was serious, the rail gun already has a sub munitions round, adding a higher velocity round that would require it to remain stationary would give it balance. opponents would still have to fear it as they would have to place all their armored units on their turn with that round in mind. Sure it would then require thought, but on both sides....
I can all but assure you that no opponent would fear a line of sight weapon that requires you to maintain stationary. Its not really all that hard to avoid an immobile line of death, if it does have to remain stationary, then you basically turn the Railgun into a vibrocannon. I.E. - useless.
5580
Post by: Eidolon
Heres a potential problem I see with the tau railgun of death.
Here we have a hammerhead 8, shooting into a trio of rhinos, marked 3, 2, and 1
8-----3 2 1
Blam it nails that first rhino. Only theres a building, or a hill, or smoke in the way and the rhino passes its cover save. Does the shot keep going ot does it stop right there?
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
Most likely GW will make it stop, or even worse ignore cover – balance fail
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Post by: Sarrazon
No no no. They won't specify in the codex, and we'll be forced to wait for an FAQ to answer it.
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
Oh yea, you're absolutely right.
22637
Post by: DEATH89
micahaphone wrote: snip
If they gave rules for a battlesuit (or stealth suits as troops) army and lower them to Killa Kan prices GW would get a lot of money from me, FW and Kroot dont really do much for me, but then I guess that would be a cross between a sort of tau-wing and ogre kingdoms. But I guess I'm just banging my head against the wall hoping for something to get cheaper, still makes me laugh that my GK's we're my cheapest army....
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Eidolon wrote:Ninja tau is terrible. If I understand it right you have one squad on the table with some beacon, and then you bring in one unit a turn from reserves until its turn 5 and the rest of your army rushes on? How is this remotely effective. Suicide suit squads arent that great, and they generally put out enough firepower at range to justify losing them. Its a crappy gimmick army. So tau went from full mech fish of fury armies and the other tactic discovered was crappier full mech reserve? Ill just hand full board control to my opponent, the last thing the tau need.
I was going to say something before, but it looks like you do know what you're talking about.
As far as the talk of battlesuits goes, I have about 12-15 battlesuits already, but if GW makes a nice new kit for them I'll gladly replace every one of them...and then some.
If the price is right anyway...
5580
Post by: Eidolon
The new battlesuit kits will be the best looking models GW has ever put out. With the most options of any kit. But they will be solid pewter and cost 35 bucks each. You heard it here first people.
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Post by: Arschbombe
Eidolon wrote:The new battlesuit kits will be the best looking models GW has ever put out. With the most options of any kit. But they will be solid pewter and cost 35 bucks each. You heard it here first people.
No, they'll be plastic and come three to a box for $58. The box will have all the options (not including drones), but only one of each. One plasma rifle, one missile pod, one fusion blaster, one flamer, one burst cannon and one railgun because they've combined the kit with the broadside.
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Post by: Red Corsair
It will probably be cheaper to buy Valkyries and kit bash them 1 for 1 into battle-suits.... ha ha
@chaosomega
lets hope that if this stupid idea comes true tau players stack and mix their own vehicles with their opponents so they can deal with the same silliness.
@Eidelon
I couldn't agree with your diagram more, terrain cover and elevation alone makes the rumor stupid, they will have to print a FAQ bigger then a Shanghai phone book to clear up the plethora of issues.
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
Or not release a FAQ at all, and watch us squirm from atop their pyle of (our)money.
25703
Post by: juraigamer
Well if there are new suits, and the look close the the FW ones, I'll be ebaying my suits asap after I know. Fully magnetized and painted suits sold will at least help lessen the blow of buying more of them.
Oh, and I use vespid. As in right now. I takes some work, but wow are they my best flank defense against meq units, you can also deep strike them into difficult terrain, one of the few units that can actually do so viably.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
Sadly, I haven't built or painted any of the piles of Tau stuff I bought during the Apocalypse bundle deals, but considering what I got the stuff for and what new stuff will likely cost I don't think I'll be parting with it or replacing it except for some of the metal models. I'll simply add a few of the newer ones to it if they look great without breaking the bank trying to replace all the older stuff. I am waiting to build my Tau till they get a new Codex. With all the other armies I have to work on it just makes sense at this point, especially if it's not all that far away. And with the piles of stuff I got cheapish a few years ago it will be a massive army as soon as I jump on that project.
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Post by: FacelessMage
Honestly I am suprised i haven't seen anything about making select Tau BS4.
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
I did, someone suggested the Shas'ui get it, so thats all them suits and squad leaders.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Well this is a rumor page and not the rule proposal section.
Tau shouldn't be BS4, not as basic stat anyway, maybe an upgrade. They'll likely just be made cheaper and see some upgrade options that will simplify how the synergy between them and their other units work.
If Tau are getting done anytime soon its because GW doesn't see many areas of their book that need "fixing."
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Post by: Raptorkid
aka_mythos wrote:Well this is a rumor page and not the rule proposal section.
Tau shouldn't be BS4, not as basic stat anyway, maybe an upgrade. They'll likely just be made cheaper and see some upgrade options that will simplify how the synergy between them and their other units work.
If Tau are getting done anytime soon its because GW doesn't see many areas of their book that need "fixing."
Surely an army based entirely around shooting should at least be as skilled with ranged weapons as the mighty Spess Muhreens? Especially given that they are useless in close combat.
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
That or be able to field lots of bodies... oh wait that spot is taken.
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Post by: micahaphone
If you want BS 4 FW, then use markerlights. Yes, Marker drones are way overpriced, and yes, for some reason they take up room in a devilfish, despite beint the size of two large frisbees. And so sorry about that math, I was very, very tired at the time.
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Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
personally i'd hope for the BS 4 thing, plus the additional hammerhead turrets, plus heavy gun drones... but i'm only hoping
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
Markerlights are there for BS4. I think they could stand to be assault 1 instead of heavy 1 though, so Tau units can effectively fire on the move.
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Post by: Reecius
Tau suits should be able to combine to form Voltron.
33927
Post by: Bendoyle
We should take a look to the guns prototypes we got like CiB and AFP and all others support systems and wargear, they sure come back in the next codex more powerfull and deadly, like the rail rifles in the first codex was.
The Tau gave Vespid an armor,no? Why not do the same to kroots? And who will like their gun drones going kamikaze in a sm squad to see the last drone explode and kill extra sm (failsafe detonator)? For the vespids everything (and more) have been said.
Just thinking how a burst cannon or 2 in a fw squad can do. In the next codex, they MUST lower the cost of stealth suit, i did touch them since 1998. Tau special characters are no match over every others specials in every others army,no? And what about the ethereal as an anti psychic (psyker)? Just think what they can do with all the special issue.
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Post by: Brother SRM
Reecius wrote:Tau suits should be able to combine to form Voltron.
Or transform into cars. WYSIWYG all over that, Tau players.
5580
Post by: Eidolon
Devilfish that can transform into iron clad type walkers, but with more shooty. So when the troops are not inside you can have an av 13 13 11 walker with two twin linked railguns walking around
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Post by: QuietOrkmi
Eidolon wrote:Devilfish that can transform into iron clad type walkers, but with more shooty. So when the troops are not inside you can have an av 13 13 11 walker with two twin linked railguns walking around
Could not stop laughing... You are forgetting beam swords and teenage angst...
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Post by: Red Corsair
Ha ha....seriously though, i am not opposed to the tau getting a BS buff except that i thought....and correct me if im wrong, that the tau were somewhat vision impaired as a race.
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Post by: JOHIRA
Red Corsair wrote:Ha ha....seriously though, i am not opposed to the tau getting a BS buff except that i thought....and correct me if im wrong, that the tau were somewhat vision impaired as a race.
That's something I've heard used by players to justify Tau BS 3 ever since the codex went to print, but seeing as how Imperial Guardsmen are BS 3 it doesn't exactly sound like they're impaired, does it. I can't recall reading anything in any codex that says Tau have inferior vision to humans.
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Post by: Sidstyler
If I remember right they just have trouble focusing on things up close, it takes longer than it would for a human, but at a distance their vision is just fine. Or at least that's what I've heard from others who read more of the background than I do.
25703
Post by: juraigamer
Sidstyler wrote:If I remember right they just have trouble focusing on things up close, it takes longer than it would for a human, but at a distance their vision is just fine. Or at least that's what I've heard from others who read more of the background than I do.
If I recall correctly the longer they try to see the more distorted it becomes. However, their helmets and battlesuits auto-senses compensate for this.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Sidstyler wrote:If I remember right they just have trouble focusing on things up close, it takes longer than it would for a human, but at a distance their vision is just fine. Or at least that's what I've heard from others who read more of the background than I do.
This tidbit was dropped from the current Codex, as it was an obvious racist joke on Japanese. BTW they should have enough technological gubbins to compensate that, not only markerlights.
32598
Post by: BloodThirSTAR
This is Tau-riffic news!
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
I dunno, only having one lens to look out of their helmets with must really screw up their depth perception.
Tau having BS3 is fine - they're trained soldiers, but not super elite. Don't their honor guard equivalent have BS4? Markerlights are there to balance that out.
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
All we really need is markerlights being able to shoot on the move, maybe have a double profile where the assault version has shorter range, 24" maybe, oh and some sort of stealth granting upgrade for finders.
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Post by: Lorek
We've moved past "potential rumors" and into "rampant wishlisting".
We'll start a new thread when we hear more.
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