I was in GW the other day and i had just come from wargames heavan were i had bought a Warmachine model, as i arrived a friend painting in the shop asked me what i had bought, so i told him and we got into a discussion about other wargames with a few others. Then one of the employees procede to tell us that this was no place for a conversation about non GW products and if we wanted to talk about that we could leave.
Am i over reacting, was this so wrong or am i right to be a little shocked in Gw ps. i left with my faith shaken as that was my favrouite Gw.
That's their global store policy. Obviously they're there to sell GW products and your "heretical lies" could corrupt otherwise devout followers of the Emperor.
Gw basically market themselves as the entire "Wargaming Hobby", any mention of any other manufacturer or wargame makes that more and more incorrect, hence the shut down.
I can see them having concerns with people bringing other models into their shop to paint and play, but telling people they can not converse with friends about certain topics while on the premises is too far.
The only reason I can see for asking someone to leave a shop is if their conversations cause disruption to other customers. Having conversations that turn into shouting or excessive use of profane language would be unacceptable because you have children and families in the shops and some people don't appreciate others loudly f-ing and blinding when they are trying to browse.
Where do they draw the line? Are you allowed to walk into a shop with a Warmachine model in your bag as long as you don't tell anyone? Normal conversations drift between topics, you could start on GW and mention that Tamyia kit you just bought and those Reaper minis you got through the post yesterday. That would be a normal hobby conversation. If you are expected to stay away from other things then it's a GW conversation. Don't call yourself a hobby shop and tell people they can't discuss the hobby.
GW should stop pretending to be a hobby shop because they aren't interested in the hobby. I don't mind them telling people that only their models can come into their shops, but their attempts to maintain a monopoly through this pretence that they are, in fact, the "wargaming hobby" bugs the hell out of me.
Yeah, if you're using their glue and their paint to make someone else's model, then that's like walking into a McDonald's carrying a bucket of KFC, sitting down, and then eating it. Not cool.
But the example given is like walking into a McDonald's, sitting down and then mentioning KFC and having the manager go apeshit on you. That is also not cool, but not cool by the store in question.
Well to be fair you went into GW and starting talking about the competitors.
Its like going to McDonalds with a bag full of burger king and talking about how awesome it is. Its GWs space that they pay for and you talking about other games could "potentially" hurt their sales.
With regard to Ravenous, Muppet Slayer didn't do that. He wasn't telling everyone how great another system is and for goodness sake why are you playing GW games you crazies!
He obviously gives monies to, and plays GWas well.
Dude if that had happened to me I would definately have been super off
I would have basically been put off buying any other GW products and def wouldnt go back to that store
I understand their side but its not like you were trying to convert everyone in the store to not buy GW products
They are trying to monopolise the wargaming hobby and are getting too big for their boots im afraid
I would also have written to them stating what happened and how unacceptable it is (not that it would make too much good)
I don't really see a problem here. It's a store policy, one in which I understand and find reasonable from a business standpoint, but most importantly it doesn't seem as though the employee over reacted. He made his point and left it at that.
A GW hobby center is not, nor can it be compared to other gaming stores so don't try and treat it as such. Would you walk into Yankee Stadium and start telling everyone how great the Red Sox's are?
Its been a policy of theirs for years - I remember being politely asked in the original Bath store back in the mid 90's to not talk about how I was going to use their models for my D&D campaign.
I have no real problem with this - its a GW store, and it only sells GW product. They are there to make money, and they do that by selling their products, not by letting their customers find out that other, cheaper (and often better) minis and games are out there.
I respect this - its like going into a Christian Church and espousing the merits of Taoism - fine on one level, but not cool!
That said, if I'm getting hassled by the sales staff, I tell them what I'm painting - and this list is all non GW at the moment. That usually gets one of two responses - either 'You no play GW that not cool' or 'sweet, I've got an (INSERT ARMY HERE) too'.
Ultimately though, the company took a concious decision back in the late 80s and early 90s to only market its own stuff. That is their policy, it is their property and if they want to do that, then thats entirely their call.
Plus its store policy, back when I worked for the great enemy we werent suppose to talk about video games either. Its strange but it makes sense since the whole point of the store being their is to sell GW stuff, anything that gets in the way of that need not be there.
Its about money, you mess with that in any which way or form then you screw with that money.
Really, I don't see what's wrong with that. If I walked into a Mercedes dealership and struck up a conversation with several people there about how awesome my BMW is, the managers would go apeshit just the same.
The only way I would see a problem with that conversation is if it was directed at someone who was about to buy a GW Models and you were effectively talking them out of it. Attempting to undermine any business's profit line is badjojo. Especially a game store. There is one thing to Ebay your Minatures and say you did. The store can do little about it, but if you are telling another not to buy this model from the store but instead from Ebay cause its cheaper. That is bad manners and anything along those lines I would ask you to leave/stop talking about it.
As for talking about other Wargames...I dont see the problem. I wasnt like the dude was sitting their painting an entirely different product line and then extolling on how this game was better then warmachine yadda yadda yadda. Besides, if you have bought the GW mini, then the store got its blood for the day from you. Wtf should it care then?
oni wrote:Would you walk into Yankee Stadium and start telling everyone how great the Red Sox's are?
If you walked into Yankee Stadium and just mentioned the Red Sox they wouldn't kick you out.
You'll wish you had been kicked out. Unless its some sort of hardcore therapy to help you cure agoraphobia and/or demophobia.
On topic- their store their rules. Respect them while you are on their premises like the good upstanding scholarly citizen that you are. If you didn't know the rules, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
I actually had an identical situation happen to me at a local GW store in NJ. This was about 2 years ago, shop currently has a new manager.
Myself and my roommate at the time recently started warmachine. We were regulars in the shop as lived pretty much around the corner. I was asked to render my opinion on Warmachine product vs GW product by a guy sitting around and painting. His reason for asking was as he was considering buying models for enjoyment of painting.
I rendered my still to this day, opinion on warmachine/ hordes: that both GW/privateer press have their goods and bad. GW has a large range of plastic models, PP was all metal. I feel PP has more dynamic poses, but as a result their modeling ranging doesn't quite go together well. I suggested purchasing a solo and painting it, but also pointed out the painter could do the same thing with GW product and as they were a fantasy player, suggested starting with a 40K special character who have more dynamic poses.
I got boot from the shop that day, along with my roommate, and another shop goer who also was in the habit of painting PP models. The manager said something I still find funny "you are taking money out of my pocket and taking food out of my daughters mouth, leave my shop today, you are welcome to return tomorrow."
I left, didn't make a scene. Realistically what he missed was my suggestion ended with the hobbyiest trying a 40K model in the end. The manager missed I rendered my opinion, but also wanted to make sure the hobbyest made an educated decision. I have no issues in PP vs GW, I understand the manager felt I could hinder sales, I have no problem with the please don't use their models here. But seriously? I've been in GW listening to some down right obscene discussession that range from music, to painting, to tv, to some topics that should not be typed. Boot me because I render my opinion in 2 minutes or less? come on, seriously...
muppet slayer wrote:I supose but i am a loyal, and have been for many years, gw customer. surrley a convosation could not do that much damage.
Would you think it is ok to walk into a bookstore and start talking about how awesome another bookstore is down the street? Would you do that in a restaurant? Now I don't think what you did was wrong or even rude but talking about someone another competing product in a store does seem like a reasonable reason for an employee of the company to discreetly and respectfully ask you to either stop or leave.
oni wrote:Would you walk into Yankee Stadium and start telling everyone how great the Red Sox's are?
If you walked into Yankee Stadium and just mentioned the Red Sox they wouldn't kick you out.
You'll wish you had been kicked out. Unless its some sort of hardcore therapy to help you cure agoraphobia and/or demophobia.
I've seen it, dude. It's ugly. Actually, I think it would be funny if everyone in the GW store starting booing and pointing at you for talking about Warmachine!
Something tells me there's a bit more to this story, though. I've heard enough "innocent conversations" concerning GW vs Warmachine that I think I can see the storekeeper's position rather clearly.
I'm not sure what things are like in England, but here between independent retailers and the internet, nobody goes to GW stores because it's where to buy product. You go because you can get in a game, paint, bs about the hobby, etc. In short, I at least use GW stores as club houses. And like any clubhouse, there are rules.
Add unto that the typical layer of just complete social malfunction many GW employees posses and these threads are in no way surprising.
Polonius wrote:I'm not sure what things are like in England, but here between independent retailers and the internet, nobody goes to GW stores because it's where to buy product. You go because you can get in a game, paint, bs about the hobby, etc. In short, I at least use GW stores as club houses. And like any clubhouse, there are rules.
Add unto that the typical layer of just complete social malfunction many GWcustomers posses and these threads are in no way surprising.
Fixed that for you.
Honestly though, regardless of what people go there for, they are entitled to run their store the way that they want. I'm sure if we heard the story from the GW employee there would be a little more blame on the OP than there seems to be here.
If I went to go eat and started talking about another good place to eat and the chef through me out I would never go back.
Luckly I have never had to go to a GW store and I play at my LGS which has 20% off or better on all GW products. Thus I tend to ignore GW's self serving policies and enjoy their game. I love the company as they produce a great game and great models but sometimes they shoot themselves in the foot.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wouldn't a better policy be to explain why their game is superior to others?
Here's a good one, I was a lowly redshirt at the time. Dawn of War had just come out, and the Manager had rec'd a free copy from GW Coporate and let me have it since he already had one. So the next day we're goobing about the game and then a customer got in on the conversation.
The Area Manager (before Metros) was in the shop and busted into our conversation stating that we should be talking about 40K mininiatures and not the 40K computer game. That guys was, and always will be; a tool.
hyperviper6 wrote:
Wouldn't a better policy be to explain why their game is superior to others?
If they're doing it by direct comparison then that would be a terrible idea. You don't generally win customers by talking negatively about your competitors.
Really, though, it is not a good idea to discuss a competitors products in a GW store, or any other store for that matter. Just step outside to discuss such things if you wish to avoid such customer policies.
Recently, My brother and I went to our local GW to see the new High Elves minis. I was fourtuante enough to put some of them together (which wasn't easy, a Saturday afternoon with a killteam game scheduled turns the place into a preschool) while my brother conversed with a young guy. Somehow, the conversation led them to say "I don't like Obama", which caused the manager to run to the hobby station and tell us that political discussions get heated sometimes, and that they probaly shouldn't talk about that. This I understand, we're in dc and everyone thinks they can fix the country. What saved us (because if my brother gets kicked out, I have to leave too since I'm his ride) was the fact that the kid who said 'I hate obama" was probaly about 13. My brother got a little angry, I just blew it off.
When I go hunting, fishing, or paint my little man dollies, I don't want to hear about that kind of stuff. Thats alway's been my philosophy.
It is important to know that I talked about much more than just the "wargaming hobby". Video Games, music, cars, along with much more and not a single complaint or threat was made by the GW staff.
Hearing some of the stories that the staff told me about all the wierd questions asked, I'm not surrpised that they act the way they do. One guy came in asking for a matress one day, and even better are the people who ask for WoW time cards.
This entire thread is why I haven't been in a GW store in years. I'll stick to the FLGS where they sell a variety of different game systems and freely encourage you to play and/or discuss every one of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hyperviper6 wrote:Wouldn't a better policy be to explain why their game is superior to others?
Yes, that would be a much better policy. Rather than kicking someone out and potentially permanently losing a customer (personally, I'd never go back), the employee could have used this as a chance to sell his own product by pointing out the "obvious superiority" of the GW miniatures and gaming system....
Of course doing that risks being seen as a pushy redshirt trying to cram the GW hobby down people's throats.
There are smoother ways of handling it, but I really have to back GW on this play. I would have said something like "hey guys, we'd appreciate if you didn't discuss competitor's products while gaming/painting/hanging out here."
You also have to draw a distinction at most GW stores between "customers" (people that come in, spend money, leave) and "residents" (those that come in, hang out for hours, spend no or little money, and leave). Obviously there are some that fall into both, but Seeing as GW is providing a place to game, paint, and hang out for no cost, having a few self serving rules makes sense.
Funny, but they are probably being more pro-active than the FLGS that has people coming in with the uber-collection of whatever purchased off of the internet, going out to drink sodas in their car, and whining about how the store is doing poorly.
Maybe this guy was a little less tactful than he should have been...
HI all.
GW Redshirt meant to say....
'Please dont mention other companies products in our stores.It has been GW policy to run isolationist marketing for the last decade by providing isolated marketing outlets.(GW B&M stores.)Because its is so hideously expencive to run these B&M stores we have raised our prices way above inflation for years and can no longer compete in the open market.Therefore even though you may get much better value for money elswhere.We at GW feel we have to support an out dated and inefficient policy as our short sighted and incompetant corperate managment can not be bothered to change anything, sorry.'
burning_phoneix wrote:Really, I don't see what's wrong with that. If I walked into a Mercedes dealership and struck up a conversation with several people there about how awesome my BMW is, the managers would go apeshit just the same.
Again where did the OP claim that the other games were awesome?
Where did he try to convince everyone to buy other stuff?
As with any retail chain there are good and bad amongst their employees, whilst as an employee they are an ambasador for the company it is not always the case that their veiws and opinions are shared by the company.
Only a few weeks back I was in my local GW store discussing non GW sideline projects with a mate, when the manager gave us both a flyer for a wargames show featuring loads of GW's competitors. This certainly hasn't caused me to stop buying GW product, if anything it made me respect GW for not only acknowledging there competitors but crediting their customers with the inteligence to make their own decissions when it comes to chosing which toy soldiers to buy.
GW arent so stupid that they think forbidding gamers to discuss other manufacturers products in their stores will stop them from buying from the likes of Privateer Press.
Sounds like you just ran into an over-zealous red shirt, if it crops up again have a word with the manager or give head office a bell.
oni wrote:I don't really see a problem here. It's a store policy, one in which I understand and find reasonable from a business standpoint, but most importantly it doesn't seem as though the employee over reacted. He made his point and left it at that.
A GW hobby center is not, nor can it be compared to other gaming stores so don't try and treat it as such. Would you walk into Yankee Stadium and start telling everyone how great the Red Sox's are?
Bet your I would shout how great the Red Sox's are in Yankee Stadium!
This thread is one of those that really annoys me.
Poster A says he was threatened by GW employee for the MERE MENTION OF ANOTHER GAME SYSTEM.
Then poster's H,J and P start accusing poster A of proselytizing the other games system, even going so far as to put words into poster A's mouth by saying things like' I wouldn't be happy if you walked into a dunkin donut shop and started talking about how awesome Krispy creme is. Totally missing the point of poster A.
The point being the draconian Fascist state that a GW store must be, to enforce the "hush hush" of any other talk of another game system to go all "brown shirt" on them and threaten to boot them from the store.
If someone did that to me I would certainly make a big scene while I was leaving and never come back.
generalgrog wrote:This thread is one of those that really annoys me.
Poster A says he was threatened by GW employee for the MERE MENTION OF ANOTHER GAME SYSTEM.
Then poster's H,J and P start accusing poster A of proselytizing the other games system, even going so far as to put words into poster A's mouth by saying things like' I wouldn't be happy if you walked into a dunkin donut shop and started talking about how awesome Krispy creme is. Totally missing the point of poster A.
The point being the draconian Fascist state that a GW store must be, to enforce the "hush hush" of any other talk of another game system to go all "brown shirt" on them and threaten to boot them from the store.
If someone did that to me I would certainly make a big scene while I was leaving and never come back.
GG
You do realize that GW fully reserves the right to throw you out on your for absolutely no reason whatsoever right?
You don't like it, don't go back. Simple free enterprise.
The point being the draconian Fascist state that a GW store must be, to enforce the "hush hush" of any other talk of another game system to go all "brown shirt" on them and threaten to boot them from the store.
Yes, or an employee got a little carried away. So either a minimum wage retail worker threw his weight around a bit or GW is a terrifying totalitarian regime. Lets decide which is the most likely.
Wow... I missed the whole "Paint a target on Grogs back and FIRE" LOL
So basically an employee at a GW is allowed to overeact and threaten their customer with impunity, while poor ole grog comes to said customers defense and gets blasted for pointing the hypocrisy of the people taking the OP out of context.
Oh DAKKA how I love thee. :-)
GG
p.s. see njpc's post for another example of boorish behavior from GW people.
The staff would be right to have a quiet word to request discretion imho and if that is all that happened then I don't think there is any cause for complaint.
But General Grog's main point was a fair comment.
There are posts unfairly putting words in to the OP's mouth.
generalgrog wrote:Wow... I missed the whole "Paint a target on Grogs back and FIRE" LOL
So basically an employee at a GW is allowed to overeact and threaten their customer with impunity
I'm sorry, where was attempted assault brought into this? The guy was told, politely or otherwise to ixnay on the warmachinay. Is that is dispute? Who cares?
Leave the store. Don't go back. Don't treat the store like a clubhouse. They are there to make money, and only make money.
muppet slayer wrote:I was in GW the other day and i had just come from wargames heavan were i had bought a Warmachine model, as i arrived a friend painting in the shop asked me what i had bought, so i told him and we got into a discussion about other wargames with a few others.
Then one of the employees procede to tell us that this was no place for a conversation about non GW products and if we wanted to talk about that we could leave.
I'm not sure an employee doing the above was overreaction. I don't know the exact words the employee used were, but this sounds more like he said, "take it outside guys" rather than "if you dare breath another word about non GW products you will be forever banished!"
generalgrog wrote:Wow... I missed the whole "Paint a target on Grogs back and FIRE" LOL
So basically an employee at a GW is allowed to overeact and threaten their customer with impunity, while poor ole grog comes to said customers defense and gets blasted for pointing the hypocrisy of the people taking the OP out of context.
Oh DAKKA how I love thee. :-)
GG
p.s. see njpc's post for another example of boorish behavior from GW people.
What hypocrisy? He called a toy company a fascist state.
I once was in a GW and somebody mentioned Warmachine, of course the GW employee comes over and starts talking about Warmachine with us and has the gall to mention that he has a Khador army. Even worse the other employee working mentioned he had a Cryx army and when I brought up Flames of War the first employee had the indecency to admit that he had a Panzergrenadier company, a Panzer Grenadier Company!
avantgarde wrote:I once was in a GW and somebody mentioned Warmachine, of course the GW employee comes over and starts talking about Warmachine with us and has the gall to mention that he has a Khador army. Even worse the other employee working mentioned he had a Cryx army and when I brought up Flames of War the first employee had the indecency to admit that he had a Panzergrenadier company, a Panzer Grenadier Company!
I'm never going back to store, ever.
Well, at least you survived. That must have been quite a trial for you.
generalgrog wrote:This thread is one of those that really annoys me.
Poster A says he was threatened by GW employee for the MERE MENTION OF ANOTHER GAME SYSTEM.
Then poster's H,J and P start accusing poster A of proselytizing the other games system, even going so far as to put words into poster A's mouth by saying things like' I wouldn't be happy if you walked into a dunkin donut shop and started talking about how awesome Krispy creme is. Totally missing the point of poster A.
The point being the draconian Fascist state that a GW store must be, to enforce the "hush hush" of any other talk of another game system to go all "brown shirt" on them and threaten to boot them from the store.
If someone did that to me I would certainly make a big scene while I was leaving and never come back.
GG
Fascists? Brownshirt? This thread has been Godwin'd!
It's not unreasonable to think that there's more to this story, broseidon.
brettz123 wrote:Would you think it is ok to walk into a bookstore and start talking about how awesome another bookstore is down the street? Would you do that in a restaurant? Now I don't think what you did was wrong or even rude but talking about someone another competing product in a store does seem like a reasonable reason for an employee of the company to discreetly and respectfully ask you to either stop or leave.
Actually I think I should be able to talk openly about a product in a shop. I wouldn't go up to a stranger and tell them to shop elsewhere, or approach a member of staff or the owner and rub their nose in the fact that I can buy the same stuff cheaper elsewhere, but I *do* expect to have private conversations with friends and family that discuss the product. When I go into a bookshop like Waterstones I do talk openly with my wife or friends about the prices of things on the shelves and whether I have seen them cheaper or valid alternatives elsewhere. I don't expect to have to talk in a hush to avoid the watching eyes of staff for fear of being asked to leave.
Kanluwen wrote:And you're perfectly allowed to be a drama queen.
Just like GW's perfectly allowed to toss you out on your drama causing arse in their privately owned and operated Games Workshop stores.
Don't like it? Don't go to an official GW store. Go to a FLGS. Games Workshop can't shut you up there, now can they?
Like clockwork as always Kan.
Just because GW is from the UK doesn't mean they hold the same "Can Do No Wrong" sovereign right that the Queen has.
But thanks for taking the 'reasonable' view again...
Do you think before you post or just immediately start in with the insults?
In the US, stores reserve the right to refuse service to you and remove you for pretty much any reason excepting race.
That means if you're sitting around in the shop, not buying anything and basically doing nothing but word of mouth advertising for a competing company...your arse is out the door faster than you can holler "BROWNSHIRTS! BROWNSHIRTS!".
GW is not alone in this practice, especially not in their own bloody shops. Last time I checked their shops said "Games Workshop" not "Games Workshop and Privateer Press Superhappy Funtime and Sharing Shenanigan Shop!".
Kanluwen wrote:
In the US, stores reserve the right to refuse service to you and remove you for pretty much any reason excepting race.
Indeed.
It is a common law, any shop, as a private property and business, may remove you. However it is the commonly understood practice in civilised nations to do so for unreasonable/antisocial behaviour of one form or another, not talking about another manufacturer's product.
"so there you have it, the new toyota 'hyperion'!"
"I liked it, it's certainly more comfortable to drive than the audi 'omega', but it's not as fuel efficient, I wonder if I could ask you how it compares on luggage capacit.."
"GET OUT OF MY SHOPPE!!"
Drawing comparisons and coming to conclusions would be a fairly reasonable topic of conversation, being kicked out of a shop for that is fething ridiculous. Of course, 'Dissing' GW would of course fall under unreasonable.
An independent FLGS is a completely different story.
GW doesn't run them, and there's no reasonable expectation of GW being able to shut out their competitors or any kind of material relating to them.
Oh, and by the by...
How many of these tales of woe do we get on Dakka?
How many of them relate to people being complete and utter tools, just not y'know...mentioning that in their post?
I've yet to see a GW shop threaten to throw someone out, or use physical violence against someone who's just mentioning Warmachine, Infinity, Flames of War, etc.
I have, however, seen them ask someone to please not bring Warmachine models in and then take up the painting space.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
In the US, stores reserve the right to refuse service to you and remove you for pretty much any reason excepting race.
Indeed.
It is a common law, any shop, as a private property and business, may remove you. However it is the commonly understood practice in civilised nations to do so for unreasonable/antisocial behaviour of one form or another, not talking about another manufacturer's product.
"so there you have it, the new toyota 'hyperion'!"
"I liked it, it's certainly more comfortable to drive than the audi 'omega', but it's not as fuel efficient, I wonder if I could ask you how it compares on luggage capacit.."
"GET OUT OF MY SHOPPE!!"
Drawing comparisons and coming to conclusions would be a fairly reasonable topic of conversation, being kicked out of a shop for that is fething ridiculous. Of course, 'Dissing' GW would of course fall under unreasonable.
And how do we know that there wasn't another reason for someone being asked to leave?
We're getting the story from someone who's clearly butthurt enough to post it on the internet and whine to a bunch of complete strangers.
People are still making claims as if the OP went into a Mosque and try to convert everyone to Zoarastoism or Rastafarianism for lawks sake.
Have you never been in a supermarket and said to someone ,"ooh look, them there Plum Duffs is tuppence a ton cheaper at Apu's Kwik-E-Mart!"
Well, fair do's it is highly unlikely that you will have said that but you get the giste.
Like Howard said, that sort of chit chat is par for the course.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have, however, seen them ask someone to please not bring Warmachine models in and then take up the painting space.
How do you know that is what happened in this case?
You are correct Kanners we don't know what happened so it is not really worth getting riled about.
If the member of staff was polite and or the OP wasn't flashing his warmachine around (oo-er missus) then there is no big deal either way imho.
"Hey look what I just bought, isn't it neat...oh yeah that is a cool model" does not = "Hey buy warmachine..... GW models suck..yeah I totally agree."
The whole "Stores in the US can do whatever they want because it's our Bidness" routine is old. We all know that. That doesn't mean us customers cannot complain when a business goes draconian. The customer is always right...remember?
When I worked at GW there was the rule that you had to be doing something hobby related to be in the shop. So painting, modelling, army building, gaming. That way when someone new comes into the shop they see what the hobby is like, not a bunch of teenagers (Yes I myself am a teenager) sitting round talking about how awesome Gears of War 2 (other games are available) is, and what-not.
Admittedly I myself would have been happy to talk about any range of different wargames, because honestly the more you know about the different games and armies that someone plays the easier it is to find the right new army/model for them to buy, or work on. Or even what kind of colour scheme to paint their new army.
My understanding of the OP is that they were just talking about the new model(s) they'd bought. Personally no problem with that, as long as it's not a lengthy debate about PP and all it's products and rules etc. (you know what I mean)
But then hey I was only a redshirt, and didn't particularily like working their anyway . . . but that's a different story . . . In the end, it's up to the employees discretion, personally I'm too nice, and there are some people that aren't as nice as me. But don't go and call Nazi on all of GW just because some employees aren't as nice as you wish. I'm sure you don't think the entirity of the human race are Nazis, just because a select few (a very small percentage) followed their ways.
So next time you think to pull the Nazi card, just think for a second, "Am I being too generalistic?"
Oshova
PS. That was ever so slightly longer than I first intended . . .
generalgrog wrote:MeanGreenstompa and Chibi have it.
"Hey look what I just bought, isn't it neat...oh yeah that is a cool model" does not = "Hey buy warmachine..... GW models suck..yeah I totally agree."
The whole "Stores in the US can do whatever they want because it's our Bidness" routine is old. We all know that. That doesn't mean us customers cannot complain when a business goes draconian. The customer is always right...remember?
I have, however, seen them ask someone to please not bring Warmachine models in and then take up the painting space.
How do you know that is what happened in this case?
You are correct Kanners we don't know what happened so it is not really worth getting riled about.
If the member of staff was polite and or the OP wasn't flashing his warmachine around (oo-er missus) then there is no big deal either way imho.
Did I say that's what happened in this case?
No.
I replied to GeneralGrog's ridiculous remark about GW.
I've said nothing about the OP, in particular, outside of that there's probably more to the story than it seems.
And hell, even the OP doesn't make it seem like he was "threatened". He said that a GW employee told him and his friends, who were discussing a model that he bought at another shop, to please wait until they left the shop to continue their discussion.
This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.
I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session
(Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).
I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.
I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.
Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".
I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)
I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.
OP claims he did nothing worthy of being kicked out.
Most people realise he probably did, in reality.
Arguments involving people who did realise and those that didn't ensue.
There is echoing laughter of ever-thirsting gods.
In the grim darkness of the future there is only war.
For all the talk about how people are projecting the behavior of the OP to be zealous shilling for PP, it seems that those same posters are also projecting the behavior of the employee in question.
Unless I'm mistaken, the employee simply asked that they take their conversation outside. It's a little odd, but certainly not worthy of adjectives such as "fascist" and "draconian."
To be fair mate no
but there was an inference, which in the context of other posts could perpetuate the impression that is what happened.
I have worked retail, and discussed other shops and products with customers. Even suggested where they could get stuff cheaper!
No implication, whatsoever.
I flatout said that "in these kinds of situations, it's likely there's more to this than what we're getting".
I also said that GW's well within their rights as a privately owned store to ask you to leave, without any real explanation as to why.
Will most GWs do this? Probably not, provided it's a group of veterans who are actually paying customers or who've established a rapport with the employees.
If it's some spanker who shows up every week to use the painting space, store's paints, etc...and yet hasn't ever bought any models from that shop?
Far more likely to get asked to leave.
Jon Touchdown wrote:This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.
I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session
(Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).
I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.
I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.
Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".
I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)
I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.
So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything.
Yeah, that's rough.
Jon Touchdown wrote:This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.
I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session
(Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).
I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.
I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.
Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".
I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)
I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.
LOVE IT! You put some definite effort into that sir, and you deserve a pat on the back. =D
Also I find it funny how D&D was how GW got started, and now just because they went their different ways the manager is annoyed by his employers ex (as it were) =p
Exactly, In these kinds of situations implies the case in question. Again we don't know what passed off so it is as Polonius says a tad unfair to criticise either party
With regard to a general question of customer behaviour I totally agree and I see now it is to what you are refering. It would be bad form to behave that way, and the staff in the right to ask them to leave imho.
plastictrees wrote:
So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything.
Yeah, that's rough.
If the store manager was giving him, a paying costomer, the hairy eyeball every 10 seconds, I think he'd be completely within his right to be less than civil. This manager was obviously being a complete prick, and deserved the reaction he got.
Honestly, I think saying "You can't talk about anything except GW products in a GW store!" is a ridiculous rule. It really is like saying "You will be kicked out of MacDonalds if you so much as mention Burger King."
Think we already had that analogy once. In the case of using in store wash on a D&D figure was it one of the old Citadel ones? If not the analogy ought be:
It is like going into McDonalds with a Burger King and putting McRelish on your whopper.
muppet slayer wrote:I supose but i am a loyal, and have been for many years, gw customer. surrley a convosation could not do that much damage.
Instead of remaining blindly loyal, open a FLGS next door to them and offer all products at 10% normal cost. With the whole store owner discount you get when ordering, you can easily do so. Then have all those over wonderful miniatures for other games then add other stuff like board games and such. Then laugh manically every day as you open the store. Follow by playing solitaire while you watch business soar.
juraigamer wrote:
Instead of remaining blindly loyal, open a FLGS next door to them and offer all products at 10% normal cost. With the whole store owner discount you get when ordering, you can easily do so. Then have all those over wonderful miniatures for other games then add other stuff like board games and such. Then laugh manically every day as you open the store. Follow by playing solitaire while you watch business soar.
plastictrees wrote:
So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything.
Yeah, that's rough.
If the store manager was giving him, a paying costomer, the hairy eyeball every 10 seconds, I think he'd be completely within his right to be less than civil. This manager was obviously being a complete prick, and deserved the reaction he got.
Honestly, I think saying "You can't talk about anything except GW products in a GW store!" is a ridiculous rule. It really is like saying "You will be kicked out of MacDonalds if you so much as mention Burger King."
No, you're totally right. How dare the store manager ask some random kid painting a non-GW model in his store what he's talking about. What a jerk. He's lucky that Jon Touchdown, the people's hero, didn't slash his tires.
These anecdotes are ridiculous. I've never been asked to leave a GW for talking about non-GW subject matter in over twenty years of going to GW stores in three different countries. These are A: isolated incidents that reflect purely on the employee and B: maybe, just maybe we aren't getting a complete picture from the random, anonymous people posting on the web.
I can't wait until some people grow up a bit and maybe are running a store and have some teenage knob-ends acting like animals in their store. I hope they think back to this very conversation.
Polonius wrote:For all the talk about how people are projecting the behavior of the OP to be zealous shilling for PP, it seems that those same posters are also projecting the behavior of the employee in question.
Unless I'm mistaken, the employee simply asked that they take their conversation outside. It's a little odd, but certainly not worthy of adjectives such as "fascist" and "draconian."
To be fair, I think Polonius is right. I did use rather harsh descriptors. I did this intentionally to make a point. I kind of figured people would get that.
plastictrees wrote: No, you're totally right. How dare the store manager ask some random kid painting a non-GW model in his store what he's talking about. What a jerk. He's lucky that Jon Touchdown, the people's hero, didn't slash his tires.
You get what you give. You act hostile towards someone, they're going to return the favor. I'm not saying he's in the right for painting a non-GW product in a GW store, but that's not what the manager brought up, did he? He asked him what he was "talking about"; I.E. repremanding someone for something that is the equivelent of reprimanding someone for talking about Burger King in a MacDonalds. Take the model out of the equation and the manager was still in the wrong, and was not showing good customer service at all. If he had a problem with him painting the model, he shouldn't have brought up what they were "talking about". Instead, he should have (politely, like any good store-owner should) asked him to not paint the model in the store. If the manager had done anything along those lines, he would have been completely in the right. However, he did not, and was flat out rude to a customer.
His "smartass" comment was also derrived from trying to play on the manager's sense of humor, not being malicious. He stated that the previous manager had a good sense of humor, and was simply messing around with the "new guy". It's not his fault the guy's a stick in the mud with the sense of humor of a dead catfish.
I was once in a GW store, and I just happened to have the new Legends of the High Seas book on me. Which, or course, is published by games Workshop's Historical division.
I was casually talking with a friend, who asked to look at it. He was a long time vet player, who had bought tons of stuff, just like me. And the GW store staff knew him, and that he was a whale of a customer. And I had a GW employee give me a hard time, asked me to remove it or hide it, since GW stores didn't sell it. To me, it was dumb on a couple of points:
1. Why even have a historical book line if you refuse to promote it, or sell them in your stores, or even allow them to be ordered direct from your stores?
2. If, for some reason, the other Vet DID decide to buy it, it's not like it was going to stop him from buying GW mainstream products.
3. And, if the Vet did decide to eventually buy one, GW profits anyhow. it's a GW product.
4. They knew me and the other guy well. It's not as if we would go about proselytising to young kids to stop playing Space Marines. Two grizzled vets talking about a GW product privately wasn't going to hurt their bottom line one bit. But it was GW policy to avoid anything related to their historical division, so the manager followed that policy.
The whole thing just struck me as insane. Why have a business, make products, sell them, but never mention them? I liked the GW guy, so I put it away out of courtesy, but the whole thing just struck me as bizarre. Classic GW catch-22 in the the way it deals with its own products and customers.
I always thought, "Why not make a product like that and sell it hard as a splash release?" Instead of keeping LoTR into its death knells, why not have a yearly or semi-yearly "Special Game" that gets a limited fun release? GW could make a single pirate sprue and sell TONS of these to regular customers, who would play it for awhile. Make it clear from the start that this is a limited run. no promises of tons of stuff, just a nice compact game with a few figures. Most regulars will buy it in addition to their other stuff. If they made a single sprue, they would kill in the historical world.
For example, GW makes a GREAT sailing game, which most people don't know. "Trafalgar" is great. They also make a nice pirates game, same engine as LoTR and Legends of the Old West. Find a way to make them compatible. You sell a sailing game, and a pirate game. One more step and they could rock it. People play Mordheim when it makes the rounds, once a year. They buy figs, make a gang, and play it for a month. Then go back to regular stuff. pirates could be like that. Or cowboys. Heck, a TON of people suddenly got interested in WWI when they released their rules, despite all of the other rulesets that have been around.
And if GW did a "Splash" type game, how hard would it be to devote a single sprue, once per year, to the splash game? Even 2 sprues? They say they can do 50 a year. Is anybody really going to feel a loss if that sprue is a splash game, as opposed to one more sprue with f-ing hobbits or ringwraiths on them? Or even a non-core, limited choice in Warhammer Fantasy that can exist in metal? Cowboys will sell far more than Wood Elf rare choices any day of the week. Who doesn't want to play cowboys? Plus it gives an alternative to get the kids involved. Don't like fantasy? Don't like Sci-fi? How about pirates/cowboys, etc.... fill in the blank.
These days I live near an independent store, and frankly, its really refreshing.
BTW- on a related note: I once had a GW guy (upper level) tell me that Warhammer Historical products accounted for 10-15% of the business, worldwide. They appealed to a lot of historical gamers, but flew under the radar because they weren't in the mainstream stores. If that's true, why kick that 10% to the corner, when it clearly does well even when it's treated as the stepchild. Heck, a bit of basic promotion and that could be a bigger revenue generator.
Kanluwen wrote:Do you think before you post or just immediately start in with the insults?
Both. I think about the insults.
Kanluwen wrote:In the US, stores reserve the right to refuse service to you and remove you for pretty much any reason excepting race.
Now who's being a drama queen.
The way I read the Op is that this guy walked into a GW store, sat down and started painting/talking with a friend, was talking about other game systems and got kicked out. That's unreasonable, the same reason a McDonald's manager kicking you for talking about KFC whilst eating McDonald's is unreasonable.
If my interpretation of the event is wrong, and the OP actually walked into the GW and started painting his Warmachine model and/or started telling everyone how much better Warmachine was, then the manager had every right to kick him out, like a person waking into a McDonald's with a 18-piece Bucket'O'Kentucky who starts handing them out to everyone and saying how much McDonald's sucks.
But you, Kan, automatically assumed GW were in the right here without any explanation or thought. That's why I said "thanks for taking the 'reasonable' view" because your dogged defence of GW in everything they do doesn't allow you to ever see that, hey, maybe GW are in the wrong every now and again.
So if the OP did do the latter, then he deserved everything he got. But if he did the former, then you and everyone else criticising him needs to STFU.
Actually HBMC, the Op was asked to take the conversation outside, which doesn't mean kicked out. It was a request, not a demand, and even the KFC/McDonald's analogy fails because in it, the person is a paying customer, while a person painting at a GW is not.
H.B.M.C. wrote:So if the OP did do the latter, then he deserved everything he got. But if he did the former, then you and everyone else criticising him needs to STFU.
Then again, since you know exactly as much about the subject as the rest of us and can't seem to behave civilly, maybe you should follow your own advice.
Clearly there can't be any middle ground here, right? I mean, either the OP attempted arson in the GW store or the employee in question made the poor young lad board a cattle car that was bound for Auschwitz for no good reason at all.
Besides, have you ever seen someone who hasn't bought anything at McDonald's (yet his friends have) been asked to 'take it outside'.
I doubt it.
Unless the OP was activley flaunting (or painting) another company's miniature and/or loudly decrying GW products in favour of other game systems, the manager's request was unreasonable.
Sitting there and painting a model whilst having a private conversation with a friend about anything isn't justification for being told to 'take it out side'. They could have been discussing the whether and it wouldn't have mattered. Unless one or both of those two conditions above occurred, the manager had no resonable course of action to do what he did other than the GW group-think paranoia at the thought of competing game systems.
But, as I said, and I'll say this again so it's nice and clear - if the OP was doing either of those things (or something similar), then the manager was well within his rights.
I guess in my world, providing space and hobby materials gratis grants a proprietor certain latitude in setting behavior.
It's also not semantics. there is a massive difference between actually tossing somebody for a conversation, and asking them to either stop or take it outside. Just ask Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse.
Monster Rain wrote:Then again, since you know exactly as much about the subject as the rest of us and can't seem to behave civilly, maybe you should follow your own advice.
No. I'm not the one jumping on the Op because of something that may or may not have happened.
Monster Rain wrote:Clearly there can't be any middle ground here, right? I mean, either the OP attempted arson in the GW store or the employee in question made the poor young lad board a cattle car that was bound for Auschwitz for no good reason at all.
There really sin't a middle ground here. It's very much a binary choice:
If the Op talked about other war gaming sytems - GW over reacted.
If the Op flaunted another company's model/painted another company's model/attacked GW products in front of everyone - GW 100% justified.
One of these is true, one of them is not. The Fanbois are leaping to GW's defence. I'm giving both the OP and GW the benefit of the doubt - and that's about as close to the 'middle ground' as you'll get in a situation like this.
Polonius wrote:I guess in my world, providing space and hobby materials gratis grants a proprietor certain latitude in setting behavior.
See, that's where you're wrong.
We are all entitled to use their property whenever we want because we bought an army from them. Or more accurately, from a third party website that gives a 20% discount.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:Clearly there can't be any middle ground here, right? I mean, either the OP attempted arson in the GW store or the employee in question made the poor young lad board a cattle car that was bound for Auschwitz for no good reason at all.
There really sin't a middle ground here. It's very much a binary choice:
If the Op talked about other war gaming sytems - GW over reacted.
If the Op flaunted another company's model/painted another company's model/attacked GW products in front of everyone - GW 100% justified.
One of these is true, one of them is not. The Fanbois are leaping to GW's defence. I'm giving both the OP and GW the benefit of the doubt - and that's about as close to the 'middle ground' as you'll get in a situation like this.
That is a fair point.
I suppose that having worked retail for a while I tend to side with the employee over what I assume was someone doing something they ought not to have been doing in the store.
Polonius wrote:I guess in my world, providing space and hobby materials gratis grants a proprietor certain latitude in setting behaviour.
Which makes the core assumption that a type of behaviour was exhibited here that warranted the manager's actions.
We don't know that, so making judgements on that is pointless.
Polonius wrote:It's also not semantics.
Then it's a matter of sequence.
"Being made to leave" is usually preceeded by "I'm going to ask you to leave out if you don't stop _____". Both have the same end result - getting kicked out.
generalgrog wrote:The point being the draconian Fascist state that a GW store must be, to enforce the "hush hush" of any other talk of another game system to go all "brown shirt" on them and threaten to boot them from the store.
I don't often agree with GG but he's hit the nail on the head this time. If I was chatting about WM to another customer and a redshirt asked me politely to talk about something else, I'd politely leave and politely never go back. I don't hate GW. I love them in many, many (heterosexual and platonic) ways. I would continue to support GW by buying their products from a FLGS. That way I could also support the FLGS.
Ravenous D wrote:Well to be fair you went into GW and starting talking about the competitors.
Its like going to McDonalds with a bag full of burger king and talking about how awesome it is. Its GWs space that they pay for and you talking about other games could "potentially" hurt their sales.
there is a difference between walking in and going "hey everyone you should all go out and buy Warmachine, it's better than 40K" and someone saying "hey what did you buy" and you replying " a warmachine model". Not even close to the same thing and I would have gladly told the manager to go feth himself, left and never returned.
I personally have never encountered the 'paranoia' about other game systems in any GW. I've even talked about BattleTech with staff members. The only absurdity I've ever really encountered was about secrecy, and denying new products, but that's a completely different story and not worth entering into here.
plastictrees wrote:This thread is really helping me pad out my ignore list.
Polonius wrote:I guess in my world, providing space and hobby materials gratis grants a proprietor certain latitude in setting behaviour.
Which makes the core assumption that a type of behaviour was exhibited here that warranted the manager's actions.
We don't know that, so making judgements on that is pointless.
Polonius wrote:It's also not semantics.
Then it's a matter of sequence.
"Being made to leave" is usually preceeded by "I'm going to ask you to leave out if you don't stop _____". Both have the same end result - getting kicked out.
Again, it's not. Because the former immediatly results in being kicked out, while the latter allows an option. According to your logic, when a cop says "Stop or i'll shoot" it's just as bad as if the cop actually shoots you.
And my point with the hospitality aspect of the equation is that GW is different from most other retailers in that it doesn't kick out people that never spend money. You can never spend a dime at a GW store and be greeted warmly, play games, use their paints, and BS with the staff for hours.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I personally have never encountered the 'paranoia' about other game systems in any GW. I've even talked about BattleTech with staff members. The only absurdity I've ever really encountered was about secrecy, and denying new products, but that's a completely different story and not worth entering into here.
I once mentioned Dakka. Redshirt totally blanched and stammered "Well . . . well . . ." so I waved it away and changed the subject.
I do remember bringing in a picture of the Fire Prism (the previous metal/plastic hybrid one), the upcoming Sentinel (the metal one from 2nd Ed) and the current Bloodthirster (but with the original head) before they were released and was greeted with "No! They're conversions!!".
Did have a staff member once tell me he played Black Templars, but never took their vows because they were "cheesy". Made me laugh. Another friend had a GW employee tell him that all plastic meant they could pass the savings onto the customer. My friend tried very hard not to laugh in his face.
But no draconian paranoia. Only really get that here.
Jon Touchdown wrote:This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.
I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session (Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).
I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.
I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.
Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".
I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)
I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.
So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything. Yeah, that's rough.
It was a light joke said in a joking tone not in anyway meant to offend, I could have after he invaded my personal space to the point of where I could smell his lunch.
Oshova wrote:
Jon Touchdown wrote:This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.
I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session (Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).
I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.
I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.
Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".
I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)
I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.
LOVE IT! You put some definite effort into that sir, and you deserve a pat on the back. =D
Also I find it funny how D&D was how GW got started, and now just because they went their different ways the manager is annoyed by his employers ex (as it were) =p
Oshova
Darth Bob wrote:
plastictrees wrote: So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything. Yeah, that's rough.
If the store manager was giving him, a paying costomer, the hairy eyeball every 10 seconds, I think he'd be completely within his right to be less than civil. This manager was obviously being a complete prick, and deserved the reaction he got.
Honestly, I think saying "You can't talk about anything except GW products in a GW store!" is a ridiculous rule. It really is like saying "You will be kicked out of MacDonalds if you so much as mention Burger King."
I did not say it in a hostile way and offered to pay for a wash. So I guess he did deserve it
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Think we already had that analogy once. In the case of using in store wash on a D&D figure was it one of the old Citadel ones? If not the analogy ought be:
It is like going into McDonalds with a Burger King and putting McRelish on your whopper.
NO it should read
It is like going into McDonalds with Burger King burger and putting McRelish on your whopper, then having an employee with bad breath ask you not to while invading your space. You then offer to pay for what you would like
plastictrees wrote:
Darth Bob wrote:
plastictrees wrote: So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything. Yeah, that's rough.
If the store manager was giving him, a paying costomer, the hairy eyeball every 10 seconds, I think he'd be completely within his right to be less than civil. This manager was obviously being a complete prick, and deserved the reaction he got.
Honestly, I think saying "You can't talk about anything except GW products in a GW store!" is a ridiculous rule. It really is like saying "You will be kicked out of MacDonalds if you so much as mention Burger King."
No, you're totally right. How dare the store manager ask some random kid painting a non-GW model in his store what he's talking about. What a jerk. He's lucky that Jon Touchdown, the people's hero, didn't slash his tires.
These anecdotes are ridiculous. I've never been asked to leave a GW for talking about non-GW subject matter in over twenty years of going to GW stores in three different countries. These are A: isolated incidents that reflect purely on the employee and B: maybe, just maybe we aren't getting a complete picture from the random, anonymous people posting on the web.
I am not some random person, I am a regular customer of the store, I would not need to slash any tires because my thought level is above retaliation with aggression.
To be fair to him and I:
I: -Offered to pay -Know for a fact he is the ONLY employee of the store, so he doesnt exactly have any boss watching him -Work with pissed off people all day, and conduct myself in a professional manner in my workplace
He: -Runs a store by himself -May of been just having a bad day
This is the internet as you say, and do not have to believe me. I am just sharing on the topic.
I think alot of the discussion here while well articulated misses the essential point - GW can make its policy whatever it wants. It may as a general matter prohibit any and all types of conduct in its store as long as it does so in ways not proscribed by the applicable law in the forum.
In the U.S. legal context, this means that they can't make policy that discriminates on the basis of race, gender, creed, religion national origin, or other narrowly defined classes. State and Local law consumer law may also limit GW's ability to enforce other policies -- though I can't think of a good example off hand.
This is a separate question entirely from what makes good business sense. It strikes me as logical that a endeavor of GW's magnitude has a commercial plan supported by market research to guide its policy on matters relating to other games inside its GW stores. I'm not sure what the research says or if they are necessarily on the right track here but it is not altogether unreasonable that a business strategy could prohibit the promotion of competitors on site.
Another question is the "oughtfullness" of GW's policies --whether it is "right" for them to so prohibit the types of behaviour reported by the OP.
As a strictly legal matter, however private companies acting on private property can set their policy with very little limitation.
BeeLow01 wrote:Ravens look good this year. Not sure the Defense will hold up..talented as they certainly are they are a little old.
Let's not get too off-topic but . . .
They'll be fun to watch, as always. That Jets game was intense.
Anyway, GW isn't so bad. Let's all support GW by buying their products at FLGS. They're gonna close down your local store/bunker anyway, regardless of sales.
Ravenous D wrote:Well to be fair you went into GW and starting talking about the competitors.
Its like going to McDonalds with a bag full of burger king and talking about how awesome it is. Its GWs space that they pay for and you talking about other games could "potentially" hurt their sales.
But actually if you talk to any of the higher ups, they claim that the other miniature games aren't their competition because Warhammer is so much better. They consider their competition to be things like xbox.
I've had the same conversation before with store staff. I play GW exclusively but I'm not new to miniatures games by any stretch. It's not an argument you'll win against me.
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(not that it would make too much good)
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