I'm building some Ork Trukks as we speak.

I can make to about 4 Trukks or 2 Battle Wagons.

But the thing I'm getting at here is how many Trukks are necessary?

Do they belong in a Kan Wall List? or Green Tide, or different?

What's the smart thing to do?

Discuss.

They only should be used in a speed/mech list

Kan Walls and Green tide do what trukks dont want to do, not move +12" and not to be able to have as many trukks in the front as possible

The_Savior wrote:I'm building some Ork Trukks as we speak.

I can make to about 4 Trukks or 2 Battle Wagons.

But the thing I'm getting at here is how many Trukks are necessary?

Do they belong in a Kan Wall List? or Green Tide, or different?

What's the smart thing to do?

Discuss.

Ork truks belong in the cult of speed lists. That being said you are probably better off building battlewagons. Ork truks are the worst transports in the game. They can be destroyed by S4 shooting, and 2/3s of the results result in an explosion, and you can scatter badly off course. Add in the fact the units that can take them either have A: better options (nobs) or B: need more numbers than the capacity of the transport to be effective (boyz)

Some people will claim that they are fast, that is why they are worth taking... I direct you to the DE book, which has a faster transport with better weapons and cargo, and the blood angles codex who has a number of just as fast vehicles that have no open top and are AV 11 and have much better cargo.

I'm sure people will fan boy all over the truks, but they are just bad. They don't reach the target most of the time, and they kill 1/3 of the cargo 2/3 of the time. (and truk boyz need to be full sized to be effective against most things)

The only success I've had with them is putting a 3 mega nob squad in one, shielded by whatever, and ran it as fast I can right into the middle of the enemies army. Transport was of course destroyed, but then they had the choice of killing 3 diverse wound meganobs in the middle of their army, or trying to blow up the 2 rolla battle wagons bearing down one them.

Good thing I haven't made anything yet, I'm just gathering objects that can scratch build them.

Would anyone have an example of a competitive list that runs vehicles.

I have one BW so I guess I should make three?

Or what would you do?

Battlewagon spam is a common list. Take at least 4-5 of them all with planks/deff rollas and have 2 with KFF.

I'll have to test it out.

Unfortunately Trukks suck for reasons mentioned. May got 18" but you cannot assault out, move 12" you can jump out but you can do that with a Battlewagon.

Units inside are too small.

Units able to take them are better in a Battlewagon, which they can take.

Honestly, do I need to go on? Trukks are fail :( Just too weak.

What about using them in a reverse Kan wall list?

Speed the Trukks Mobs forward to engage and tie up the enemy and then bring the Kans in to finish the job?

Or does this suffer too much from splitting your forces into 2 distinct waves?

Yeah, it suffers too much from easy target priority. So first turn I kill the trucks (easy) Second turn I kill the kans (not so easy, but doable)

If you are going full speed, your whole force really needs to go that speed.

The point of a trukk-heavy Kult of Speed list is target saturation.

If you're running 9 trukks (6 squads of Boyz, 3 squads of Nobz/MANZ) plus 60 Stormboyz, or a bunch of bikes, and some kans or BWs, your opponent simply can't kill everything before it hits. Take a pair of KFF/PK Meks for full coverage, and suddenly your trukks are twice as tough; still not hard to kill, of course, but not nearly as fragile as they should be. Trukk squads are cheap, so you can max out your troops
and still have loads of points left over for other killy stuff.

A KoS list guarantees you a Turn 2 Waagh and assault; that's the main draw. You can get probably more than 50 Boyz, with 6 PK nobs, stuck in turn 2 along with a passle of Nobz, Stormboyz, whatever. Many armies (and, more importantly, many players) absolutely can't handle that.

notabot187 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:I'm building some Ork Trukks as we speak.

I can make to about 4 Trukks or 2 Battle Wagons.

But the thing I'm getting at here is how many Trukks are necessary?

Do they belong in a Kan Wall List? or Green Tide, or different?

What's the smart thing to do?

Discuss.

Ork truks belong in the cult of speed lists. That being said you are probably better off building battlewagons. Ork truks are the worst transports in the game. They can be destroyed by S4 shooting, and 2/3s of the results result in an explosion, and you can scatter badly off course. Add in the fact the units that can take them either have A: better options (nobs) or B: need more numbers than the capacity of the transport to be effective (boyz)

Some people will claim that they are fast, that is why they are worth taking... I direct you to the DE book, which has a faster transport with better weapons and cargo, and the blood angles codex who has a number of just as fast vehicles that have no open top and are AV 11 and have much better cargo.

I'm sure people will fan boy all over the truks, but they are just bad. They don't reach the target most of the time, and they kill 1/3 of the cargo 2/3 of the time. (and truk boyz need to be full sized to be effective against most things)

The only success I've had with them is putting a 3 mega nob squad in one, shielded by whatever, and ran it as fast I can right into the middle of the enemies army. Transport was of course destroyed, but then they had the choice of killing 3 diverse wound meganobs in the middle of their army, or trying to blow up the 2 rolla battle wagons bearing down one them.

So true god I wish I handt wasted moneyz on trucks since I only own two of them they are useless except when loaded with burnas boyz and used as Deep striking termie reaction forcce behind my own lines

So should trukks even be used?

If you're gonna use trukks, use a LOT of trukks. 9 is not too many. When you use that many, yes, they should be used.

What you should NOT do is stick one or two trukks into an otherwise non-mech army. That's a total waste of points, they'll die turn 1.

Ok for starters can you can't say an ork trukk is junk because another codex can launch pigs out their asses or whatever example you come up with. It was an Ork question and so we have to look at the Ork codex.

So we have three transports we have access to... going to just eliminate the looted wagon as an option right off the bat because sure there we have no debate it's a junk if used as a transport.

So the trukk and battlewagon are the choices. I use them both just like said above as target saturation. Yes I trukks weak but my opponent NEVER fire at them because they got bigger fish to fry as in my battle wagons. My trukks only need to survive one or two rounds of fire because I am getting out after that and if they are wasting shots at my trukks then they are not shooting at my wagons.

First off nobody is firing bolters at my Trukks on turn one unless I got to move, in which case I am just about where I need to go anyways.

When I get out of my trukks they are not even close to being done. I tank shock every chance I get.

PRO TIP - a broken unit automatically fails any leadership tests. You want to watch someone call BS when you force them to roll another 2d6 for fleeing again in the same turn.

At 2000pt I can do 3 BW w/ boyz and 2 trucks with big units of Noz. HQ = KFF and Warboss. As long as I can get my 4+ cover save my trukks are reasonably survivable. On top of that 9 times outa 10 when they do blow up (which they should cause they are trukks) I have my nobz about were I want them anyway.

A truck with a wrecking ball can dish out a strength 9 hit i run a list with 4 trucks and 3 battlewagons. The simple fact that trucks suck and deffrollas scare people works to my advantage. They target my battlewagons allowing my trukks to drop my boyz off on objectives in enemy territory. Empty trukks often get ignored until they start popping dreadnoughts and the like they can also screen against assaults or provide cover. They are cheap mobile cover that can dish out damage and often get overlooked not only by ork players but by their oponents.

I think 2 Trukks might be the best option. Does anyone else seem to agree.
Also I equip all my vehicles with Red Paint Job.

You pay for trukks to get 1 or 2 turns of movement. Keep options to a ram, maybe a boardin' plank, and realize you are trying to get your boyz 18-36 inches up the board with them and don't care when they blow. You just want to have enough damage left after they blow to utilize that speed, so make sure you travel in mass numbers.

I run my trukks with Rams, boarding planks, and Rokkit Launchers. Those and maybe red paint are the only upgrades I would recommend. I say maybe with redpaint because they are fast enuff to out run your KFF the extra speed isn't necessary in most cases

General_Chaos wrote:I run my trukks with Rams, boarding planks, and Rokkit Launchers. Those and maybe red paint are the only upgrades I would recommend. I say maybe with redpaint because they are fast enuff to out run your KFF the extra speed isn't necessary in most cases

That's why they all got RPJ so that they go in a whole.

The_Savior wrote:I think 2 Trukks might be the best option. Does anyone else seem to agree.
Also I equip all my vehicles with Red Paint Job.

Hmm make sure you either dont have anything expensive in there or have something else to draw fire power from.

Kraks and Autocannons will eat those alive since theres only 2

kenshin620 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:I think 2 Trukks might be the best option. Does anyone else seem to agree.
Also I equip all my vehicles with Red Paint Job.

Hmm make sure you either dont have anything expensive in there or have something else to draw fire power from.

Kraks and Autocannons will eat those alive since theres only 2

Hide behind the Wagons.

General_Chaos wrote:Ok for starters can you can't say an ork trukk is junk because another codex can launch pigs out their asses or whatever example you come up with. It was an Ork question and so we have to look at the Ork codex.

So we have three transports we have access to... going to just eliminate the looted wagon as an option right off the bat because sure there we have no debate it's a junk if used as a transport.

So the trukk and battlewagon are the choices. I use them both just like said above as target saturation. Yes I trukks weak but my opponent NEVER fire at them because they got bigger fish to fry as in my battle wagons. My trukks only need to survive one or two rounds of fire because I am getting out after that and if they are wasting shots at my trukks then they are not shooting at my wagons.

First off nobody is firing bolters at my Trukks on turn one unless I got to move, in which case I am just about where I need to go anyways.

When I get out of my trukks they are not even close to being done. I tank shock every chance I get.

PRO TIP - a broken unit automatically fails any leadership tests. You want to watch someone call BS when you force them to roll another 2d6 for fleeing again in the same turn.

1: you can't compare units in a vacuum. So you compare them to what other armies can get for the same value. Ork truks are not as good as what other books can bring. They aren't a resilient, they can't take good weapons, and their cargo is underwhelming. Whopee, this 135 point squad (9 boyz + PK nob w/bosspole) kills a whopping 4 tactical marines. Probably took that many wounds during that assualt, so manage a draw or worse, a slight win (they run away and combat tactics shooting you forcing LD 7 test)

2: Sure, trukks and battle wagons are the real choices, but truks are even worse than looted wagons in durability and random crap. If it wasn't for the 12 inch only movement and only taken as HS, I would rather have don't touch that than the ramshackle rule.

3: If your opponents doesn't shoot your truks, he has a hole in his firepower types. He should have guns that have reasonable strength, but aren't effective against AV 14 (like S5-8). Its better to shoot at the things you can kill now, than to take low percentage shots at the hard to kill things (even lascannons at AV 14 is crappy). Target priority is important. Don't waste shots shooting at AV 14 with cover when you can pretty much always kill that AV 10 open top vehicle with little effort. When all that little stuff is dead, THEN you can have the breathing room to focus on the rocks units. What I hear when people say they don't shoot at the rest of my army, they shoot at my AV 14 rock unit(s) is this: "I play against people who have no idea about target priority, and have a poor weapon mix"

4: yes, people can fire their bolters turn 1. Its called scouts, storm bolters, and drop pods.

5: tank shocking with a trukk requires an upgrade to do so. So you are spending even more points on the easiest to destroy vehicle in the game to do something that it probably shouldn't be able to do.

The only reason I see trukks usable is when you take a squad of nobs and you want to get them up there FAST. By fast I don't mean 12 and shoot your gun I mean like 19" with re-roll able terrain and after the move, hug cover.

I think a battle wagon for nobs is to many points invested in a already heavy pointed unit. With that being said 12 trukk boys aren't enough to make a big enough diff (unless you have a lot).

Just my thoughts on it.

theblessing8386 wrote:The only reason I see trukks usable is when you take a squad of nobs and you want to get them up there FAST. By fast I don't mean 12 and shoot your gun I mean like 19" with re-roll able terrain and after the move, hug cover.

I think a battle wagon for nobs is to many points invested in a already heavy pointed unit. With that being said 12 trukk boys aren't enough to make a big enough diff (unless you have a lot).

Just my thoughts on it.

Well, the problem with truks with nobs, is they are still fragile, 18-19 inches doesn't matter much when you can't get out of the transport and assault.

A battle wagon isn't that expensive an investment if A: it can hold its own weight (rollas) B: hard to kill (AV 14 on the front) and C: can reliably deliver the goods (and the cargo is worth delivering).

Nobs are going to cost a bunch, and skimping on their delivery means you are going to risk losing that unit before they even get close (losing it meaning they have to walk across the board and end up doing nothing). Its like spending a fortune on something on Ebay, then asking for the cheapest delivery with no insurance.

Now if its a 3 man throw away nob squad, like 3 mega nobs (which are for some reason cheaper than regular PK nobs) then all means, throw them in a trukk and hope you get lucky. That many PK attacks for cheap is worth the risk.

notabot187 wrote:
Nobs are going to cost a bunch, and skimping on their delivery means you are going to risk losing that unit before they even get close (losing it meaning they have to walk across the board and end up doing nothing). Its like spending a fortune on something on Ebay, then asking for the cheapest delivery with no insurance.

IF your walking your Nobs across the board then your not thinking

As said before the transport only has to last thru at the MAX 2 of rounds of shooting. If you run your Mech like i do, my standard formation is two battlewagons in the front and three trukks behind all huddled under the KFF with the Nobs Trukk in the middle. So if for some reason I lose the Nob trukk I would just bail some of the Trukk Boyz out and hop the Nobs in and make the Boyz walk. It's the Orky way the smaller ones make way for the Bigger Ones.

What i do is run a trukk with my 6 nobs and a warboss, shielded by 6 bikes supported by 10 stormboys and backed up by 90 boys covered by a kff all receiving covering fire from 10 lootas. the enemie doesnt shoot my trukk turn one because he is being gently aresraped by 3 deffkopters with twinlinked rokkits and a buzzsaw in the midst of their lines, oh and this is 1500 points.

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:
Nobs are going to cost a bunch, and skimping on their delivery means you are going to risk losing that unit before they even get close (losing it meaning they have to walk across the board and end up doing nothing). Its like spending a fortune on something on Ebay, then asking for the cheapest delivery with no insurance.

IF your walking your Nobs across the board then your not thinking

As said before the transport only has to last thru at the MAX 2 of rounds of shooting. If you run your Mech like i do, my standard formation is two battlewagons in the front and three trukks behind all huddled under the KFF with the Nobs Trukk in the middle. So if for some reason I lose the Nob trukk I would just bail some of the Trukk Boyz out and hop the Nobs in and make the Boyz walk. It's the Orky way the smaller ones make way for the Bigger Ones.

That works if your trukk doesn't scatter away too far.

So far the list I play test online runs 2 Trukks and I'm quite content.

notabot187 wrote:

That works if your trukk doesn't scatter away too far.

it would have to just about head straight back otherwise it stops at your other trukks/battlewagons the chance that it gets wrecked, kereens, and goes out the back kinda slim...

im a fan of trukks myself. everytime ive used them, i find they dont get wrecked untill im on the enemy. if they get shot up. then ramshackle allows me to get even closer (most times) and it prevents boys inside getting smushed. (most times) since they are less expensive and faster then a battlewagon, you can get to grips faster, for less cost. eg: 2x trukks with rpg, riggers, rams and plates = 140 carrys 24 boys. move 19" turn 1, 13" turn 2, +2' disembark, fleet/wagghh roll avg 4, +6" charge. you just covered 44+" on the table in 2 turns, wereas the BW would have trouble even meeting half that. yea they are open topped and armor 10, but its one of few transports that can fix itself, and cheap enough to bring lots of if you want. batlewagons are slow, dont have great side or rear armors, open topped, and youll probally loose more boys if its wrecked. if i loose half my 12 man squad no biggie cause more where that came from, but loosing a good chunk of a 20 man mob is painful. and since the BW is slower, more turns for enemys to shoot it and do just that. for transport dutys i like my trukks.

Trukkz are the best transport in the game. With super fast speed, the ramshackle rule, and an open top, you can go from 0 to krump in one turn! They are essential to a speed freak army, so not so helpful in a green tide (a squad of 12 opposed to a squad of 30). If you're feeling bold, field three or four with a Big Mek in one rocking a Kustom Force Field, it will give all the lightly armored trukks a 4+ cover as long as they're within 6". We got us a convoy!

Tabletoptitan wrote:Trukkz are the best transport in the game. With super fast speed, the ramshackle rule, and an open top, you can go from 0 to krump in one turn! They are essential to a speed freak army, so not so helpful in a green tide (a squad of 12 opposed to a squad of 30). If you're feeling bold, field three or four with a Big Mek in one rocking a Kustom Force Field, it will give all the lightly armored trukks a 4+ cover as long as they're within 6". We got us a convoy!

So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

notabot187 wrote:So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

If your getting raped by Bolters and LOL Tau maybe you should play another race, Ork may not be your thing...

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

If your getting raped by Bolters and LOL Tau maybe you should play another race, Ork may not be your thing...

Yeah, when his point makes sense and yours doesn't, there's always the ad hominem fallacy to fall back on.

Fanboy more.

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:So a vehicle that blows up when bolters are fired at it, scatters in random directions, and costs the same a rhino (and BA ones move at the same speed) is the best transport in the game? Fan boy much? Its one redeeming feature (open top) is also one of its biggest liabilities... +1 on the damage chart sucks when you get glanced by bolters and pend by tau fire warriors. Cover saves don't matter much when you are taking high volume of fire, and only one shot getting through can kill you. also, since it usually explodes when it is destroyed (2/3s of the time) you don't get a nice piece of terrain, you get a crater... You also end up losing around 1/3 of the squad on average since orks have terrible saves. 1/3 of a squad lost in trukk boyz means you are no longer fearless. Then you have to take a pinning test...

If your getting raped by Bolters and LOL Tau maybe you should play another race, Ork may not be your thing...

Yeah, that is why they in my trunk UNDER my other armies. The whole point of the bolter and fire warrior guns comment was to show how pathetic truks are... and it is a realistic situation, especially if you are going all out on mech, what else are those bolters and fire warriors going to shoot at?

Trukks might not be the best transport, but they work extremely well with the ork style. They're fast, they're cheep, you can jump out of it from anywjere then assault afterwords. So it's not as durable as a rhino, that one extra point of armor isn't that useful against most special/heavy weapons, and space marines can't take a permanent mobile +4 cover save.

On their own, I don't find Trukks all that great. However, when combined with multiple Battlewagons and/or Killa Kanz, then they start to come into their own. With target priority, many of my opponents don't waste time on the Trukk. This allows the Boyz to get into the necessary position, whether assisting in an assault, going after a lone stationary vehicle or setting up to control/contest an objective.

There are also times I'll hold a Trukk in Reserve. It's fast enough to get up with the rest of the army and has the benefit of being able to provide some support to areas which need it.

Granted, Trukks suck as a form of protection. However, don't think of them in a vacuum. They are simply another piece of kit in the Ork toolbag that has its uses on occasion.

TheBloodGod wrote:

Yeah, when his point makes sense and yours doesn't, there's always the ad hominem fallacy to fall back on.

Fanboy more.

PRO-TIP - you should read the entire thread before posting in it

My point is all over this thread, Notabot has been regurgitating his point every time someone says they like trukks, he's not gunna be happy until the entire Mass of Ork players here see things his way.

Trukks are great for Orks if you play the right style. I run 2 w/ my Battlewagons. I ether hide them behind the BW, or hide them on a flank behind some terrain. Your opponent has to respect their assault radius!

I always run w/ Ram, Red Paint and a Plank. I can tear through a building (the one I am hiding behind) and plank a tank or a transport, or assault someone my Lootas have just stranded. Great for objective grabbing too. Empty trukks who have delivered the payload can cause problems. BigShoota behind a transport, ram a unit and make them test morale, contest objectives!

Don't spend time wishing you had a Rhino or a DropPod! You don't! You're an Ork! 'Embrace the Suck' and use those Trukks. Get some roads on those 4x6 boards and go even fasta!!

Some of my trukks are the old GorkaMorka style - totally legal and easy to hide - I have even enlarged mine by 1/3 to make them less cheesy.

Don't forget - some of the results on the 'ramshackle' table are helpful. When you get to drop your assault unit 14" CLOSER to the enemy he will be sorry he shot the trukk.

3 Meganobz (with a couple of kombi-scorchas) in a ram/plank truck can cause lots of mischief. I had my 3 MANZ truck have a total field-day in a Planetsrike game recently.

I can see taking A Trukk+Battlewagon+Bikes list being very effective. Have 2-3 Wagons up front with your KFF Coverage, Trukks behind them. Wagons have Shoota boys inside packed to the brim, and the Trukks have the Nobs. This solves the small squad size problem. Your opponent either won't see the Trukks or won't care about them because he has Battlewagons roaring down on him. Have a second HQ choice like a Biker Warboss with Biker Nobs as another huge distraction and those Trukks won't be being shot. Then once they get close they roar forward and unload Nobs to stomp on stuff.

Or, take so many cheap Trukks that your opponent can't shoot them all, and hide Nob Bikers behind them. Trukks can swarm over stuff, Bikers do most of the actual Killing of nasty stuff. Only real threats would be SW missile spam and the like with MSU so you can kill 4-5 trukks a turn with luck.

I run a list with 3 Wagons and 2 Trukks with a KFF to support them.

Yeah I agree with the "trukks have their uses" viewpoint. You can hide a truck rather easily behind battlewagons if you use a combination of trukks and battlewagons.

Remember just because the battlewagon has FA 14 does not mean you should just consider it an AV 14 vehicle. At least with the GW model, the side profile is rather large and easy to get side shots on.

No only that, but even if you scratch build them and get rid of that defect (which I wouldn't like to see across the table) you still have AV 12 on your sides. Most competitive armies feature solid ways of maneuvering heavy weapons, to allow side shots.

Since BWs are more expensive, you'll have less of them. BWs are also slower than trukks and thus your army is more prone to be out-maneuvered. You can expect opponents to be frequently shooting at side armor.

They both have a place, and a balanced list might feature one or the other, or a combination. Dismissing them outright, however, is depriving yourself of a cheap tool in the ork arsenal.

General_Chaos wrote:

TheBloodGod wrote:

Yeah, when his point makes sense and yours doesn't, there's always the ad hominem fallacy to fall back on.

Fanboy more.

PRO-TIP - you should read the entire thread before posting in it

My point is all over this thread, Notabot has been regurgitating his point every time someone says they like trukks, he's not gunna be happy until the entire Mass of Ork players here see things his way.

I like gross generalizations from people who don't know me and pro tips from people playing a game that has no pro league...

If you like truks, it is because you think they look cool, have cool fluff, or you have a cool story about how they one time did that thing to that friend of yours guys. So truks are good in A: modeling, B: story/fluff, and C: battle reports

Last I checked this is the tactics forum.

My point is all over this thread, people, including you, have been fanboying all over how good this on paper and usually on table awful unit is supposedly some sort of amazing transport. Are they good NO. Sometimes you have very little choice in taking them. (points is usually the main factor)

Hell I even take them from time to time. But only on throw away units like 3 meganobs. I just want to run that little beater unit deep as possible, and scare people with it. Because if they know how to handle it, that is all it can do!

However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

The_Savior wrote:However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

You have to pay extra points to tank shock with them sadly, as they are not a tank starting out. I personally don't like spending more points than I have to on such a fragile and single dimension unit.

notabot187 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

You have to pay extra points to tank shock with them sadly, as they are not a tank starting out. I personally don't like spending more points than I have to on such a fragile and single dimension unit.

You mean I can't just put the ram, and run into people?

notabot187 I'm really not sure why you hate trukks so much. You really spend a lot of effort trying to convince people that they suck and have little practical use. The fact is that since they are open topped, fast, and can carry a 4+ cover save around makes them more useful and at least as durable as an average Rhino in almost every reasonable situation. And on top of all that they are cheap, which only adds to their utility.
BTW, on Ghaz's waaaagh, I have 13+2+6+6 = 27" assault range with a trukk. Which means I can be in assault range with 3 turns in most games. That is not something most rhino can do.

The_Savior wrote:

notabot187 wrote:

The_Savior wrote:However I think we can all agree, that after the Trukk has been disembarked from, it's great to tank shock enemy units and or potentially blow up their face.

You have to pay extra points to tank shock with them sadly, as they are not a tank starting out. I personally don't like spending more points than I have to on such a fragile and single dimension unit.

You mean I can't just put the ram, and run into people?

No you can...I think hes just saying you have to pay extra to do it (though it is a pittance) and he doesnt want to pay any extra points on a trukk...I personally never run my trukks without a ram...simply because Ill tank shock w it aftewards...or at least use the reroll through terrain...

The other turkk upgrades? I dont think they are worth it at all!

A Reinforced Ram reminds me of Extra Armor in 3rd edition. It is practically mandatory. Pay the extra points and run right through terrain with very little concern.

Played 2, 2000 point games yesterday with the 3 BW and 1 Trukk setup. Both my opponents spent a lot of time shooting Battlewagons. I was able to use my Trukk w/ Boyz to reinforce any area that need some added bodies. Worked pretty well. With 3 BW full of greenskins, neither opponent wanted to waste their time on the Trukk.

It's not a 'win' unit, but the extra 44 basic attacks and 4 Powerklaw attacks sure did help when needed.

Personally when I play a game, my first target is things I know I can kill easily at range. So I fire at light armor first. Pouring firepower into AV 14 battlewagons with cover saves is similar to shooting at a TMC that has FNP (with your non ap 2 or better) instead of the one that doesn't.

I guess I've just played against people who have similar targeting priorities.

Why does everyone in your play group shoot at the front armor of battlewagons? Most people I know shoot almost exclusively at side armor, or use melta against the front if necessary.

Dracos wrote:Why does everyone in your play group shoot at the front armor of battlewagons? Most people I know shoot almost exclusively at side armor, or use melta against the front if necessary.

The front armor is all that should be exposed to turn 1 shooting. Turn 2, yeah, you can easily get side shots. But turn one it's better shoot at truks, since A: they are easy to kill, and B, they can't hide them completely with normal terrain, even with battlewagons giving them cover.

I usually only run RPJ and the Ram with Trukks, and that's how I get my preferred 160 points of Trukk Boyz.

notabot187 wrote:But turn one it's better shoot at truks

which is why they are awesome!!! as repeated a couple times above it's called target saturation

Do you either go for the trukks?, the battlewagons?, the deff koptas?, the lootas?, the whatever?... there is no correct answer, something is gunna get to you and punch you in the face

General_Chaos wrote:

notabot187 wrote:But turn one it's better shoot at truks

which is why they are awesome!!! as repeated a couple times above it's called target saturation

Do you either go for the trukks?, the battlewagons?, the deff koptas?, the lootas?, the whatever?... there is no correct answer, something is gunna get to you and punch you in the face

What he said...

However, if you're like me you run the Koptas in their faces, have the lootas on a deadly BLOS to rain dakka on them, and have a convoy with a KFF saying what's up?

Choose your shots wisely.

notabot187 wrote:Personally when I play a game, my first target is things I know I can kill easily at range. So I fire at light armor first. Pouring firepower into AV 14 battlewagons with cover saves is similar to shooting at a TMC that has FNP (with your non ap 2 or better) instead of the one that doesn't.

I guess I've just played against people who have similar targeting priorities.

For my army, having my 3 Battlewagons get to the center of the table is what I need to do to control the tempo of the game. If my opponent wanted to shoot at the Trukk (which also got a save, so not quite as easy to kill), that increases the probability for my Battlewagons to do what they are intended. Loosing a single Trukk does very little to diminish the strength of the army. One opponent did get side shots on a Battlewagon, but by that point, I was already in position to multi assault and close down his army.

What if you were to support a big Nob Bike squad (with Wazzdakka for example) with a bunch of truck boys?

That might force people to either leave enough of the trucks alone for them to get stuck in... or let a very potent combat unit into their midst unmolested.

trukks do not suck, they may be fragile and have some naff options but they do not suck.

first off, if you take trukks make sure you have at least a KFF
secondly: dont waste points on them, that 1 str9 hit can be used elseware
thirdly: RPJ is a must, that extra inch can be the decider between in charge range, and not
fourth: take at least 3, with other armour for your oponent to shoot

my list

Warboss:
Cybork body, Power Klaw(suprised?) bosspole
Skorcha(fluffy) Squig, Warbike

Big Mek
KFF, Burna(fluffy) bosspole

3 Kans
rokkits
3 kans
rokkits
def dread
2 rokkits

11 shoota boysz x1, 2x12 shoota boyz
Nob, Klaw, bosspole(in small units essential) rokkit
Trukk x3
RPJ, Boarding plank Rokkit

5 Nob bikers, cybork bodies, painboy, waagh banner, grot orderly(fluffy)

You are putting shoota boyz in truks?

Also, your list has just a single rock unit, and not a particularly hard one to break. A small unit of nob bikers can be handled by most competent lists these days.

Id swear that notabot is stelek in disguise, as Ive had a few debates over how Orks work with him before. Trukks do not suck at all. My main assault is in trukks. You stick a throw away KFF mek in one of them and power them to one of your enemies flanks and watch the "suck" happen. Ive murdered many peoples flanks with trukks.

Trukks work 2 fold if you ask me. Either they A. take all the shots, because they are easy to pop, and leave the battlewagons/rest of the army free to move unmolested. Or 2. they are ignored as "suck" and again move unmolested and then plow into the enemy lines. Ive downed demon princes, sternguard squads and heavy weapon teams with ease with just one trukk mob. So having 4+ ram into one side of your army WILL cause you mass casualties. Not bad for the worst transport "suck" unit in the game.

If Im not going mass shootas, trukks are where its at. I love them. Anytime I play against someone that is tough to beat, I roll trukks.

notabot187 wrote:You are putting shoota boyz in truks?

Also, your list has just a single rock unit, and not a particularly hard one to break. A small unit of nob bikers can be handled by most competent lists these days.

shoota boyz in trukks is simply... awfull, 3/4 shoota boyz trukk mobs.. awsome thats 44 shots at a single unit at 18", plus (my usual loadout) 24 big shoota shots (4 from trukks, 4 from mobs) i kill pretty much everything with this, point is i Make it work for me.

the nobs are actually a bit of a red herring, every man and his dog now knows that Nob bikers are very nasty, so i use this to my advantage by placeing them out front of my kans, with the trukks behind them and the KFF mek in the middle of it all(in trukk) this gives my army a hell of alot of durability, as everything is obscured or has a cover/feel no pain save, also i never leave the trukks till i need to, drive by shootings are my faverite tactic at the moment (wish shootas could get burnas).

I run a combined arms ork list, target saturation is my game, you need to target alot of diferent things to slow me down and if the boyz dont get ya the kans/ Nobz will.

Im 9/0/0 at the moment (as a couple of our fellow dakkdakkerites can attest to) so in finality, the trukk alone is a vunerable easy to kill transport, but its never alone and that is where its strengh lies

"One of my Tigers is worth ten of your Shermans, the problem is you always bring an eleventh"

Question: Where do Ork Trukks belong?

Answer: In my army. BW spam is great except you are capped at 3 HS battlewagons for your boyz (and that steals a HS battlewagon from a possible burna squad). If you are taking two KFF big meks then how are you filling out your scoring units at larger points values in a mech ork/KoS army? As said before the strength of the trukk is it's speed + low cost + it's low target priority value.

BTW asking dakka for ork list ideas yields one of two army builds. The ork kan wall or the ork battlewagon spam

phillosmaster wrote:Question: Where do Ork Trukks belong?

Answer: In my army. BW spam is great except you are capped at 3 HS battlewagons for your boyz (and that steals a HS battlewagon from a possible burna squad). If you are taking two KFF big meks then how are you filling out your scoring units at larger points values in a mech ork/KoS army? As said before the strength of the trukk is it's speed + low cost + it's low target priority value.

BTW asking dakka for ork list ideas yields one of two army builds. The ork kan wall or the ork battlewagon spam

Yeah, I've always been less than impressed with the army list "advice" given by the supposed experts on dakka and other internet sites.
My experience with internet advice is you always get a "one trick pony" army that relies upon spam and restrictive strategies that aren't adaptable.

The true answer to "where do ork trukks belong?" is wherever your play style and experience allows you to make them work effectively. The commonly accepted wisdom is that you should never mix themes with ork armies. It is claimed that trukks should not be taken non mechanized units because they'll outdistance the footsloggers,etc. However, this overlooks the fact that trukks can be used as flankers or quick reaction forces to enhance the effectiveness of other slower units.

I wish more people would think in terms of combined arms tactics instead of spam and bum-rush.

KingCracker wrote:Id swear that notabot is stelek in disguise, as Ive had a few debates over how Orks work with him before. Trukks do not suck at all. My main assault is in trukks. You stick a throw away KFF mek in one of them and power them to one of your enemies flanks and watch the "suck" happen. Ive murdered many peoples flanks with trukks.

Trukks work 2 fold if you ask me. Either they A. take all the shots, because they are easy to pop, and leave the battlewagons/rest of the army free to move unmolested. Or 2. they are ignored as "suck" and again move unmolested and then plow into the enemy lines. Ive downed demon princes, sternguard squads and heavy weapon teams with ease with just one trukk mob. So having 4+ ram into one side of your army WILL cause you mass casualties. Not bad for the worst transport "suck" unit in the game.

If Im not going mass shootas, trukks are where its at. I love them. Anytime I play against someone that is tough to beat, I roll trukks.

So anybody who disagrees with you is automatically the BBEG (big bad evil guy) in disguise? There is so many things wrong with this kind of personal attack I don't even know where to start. If you disagree with me, disagree with ME. Not some divisive blog author who got voted off the island for not playing well with others.

Battle wagons are rarely if ever a good first turn target. Even if your army has lascannons. Firing a lascannon at a KFF battlewagon is a really poor prospect until that wagon has exposed its sides (which shouldn't happen until turn 2 at the earliest) The shots on turn 1 should be going on the truks, who are usually the most immediate and usually easiest threat to kill.

Most lists I've been playing with and against have the ability to demobilize (stunned, immobile, or destroyed) around 2-3 rhinos type hulls a turn, even with smoke and other cover. Truks aren't that durable. They aren't even as durable as a landspeeder.

If you do get lucky, and get that unit of truk boyz across the boad intact and take out that small unit of devs, sternguard, or whatever... congrats. It isn't like your opponent who placed a unit that close to a truks assault range wasn't prepared to take some loses. Hell, it might even have been bait. Also, those truk boyz are like to have been badly mauled before they got to kill, so are in all likely hood stuck in the open with 6+ saves, low on bodies, and it is the opponents turn.

So I guess part of my problem with truks is their normal cargo sucks. For 147 you get 11 boys, 1 nob with PK and boss pole. It takes 3 boyz to kill one marine (assuming sluggas) in cc. So assuming all orks survive to hit (which I never assume) you kill 4 marines with regular attacks, and just under 2 with PKs (4 attacks, 2 hits, 5/6 wounds per hit). So just under 6 dead marines. Which is about the same output of meganobs for nearly the same number of points. The difference being that A: Mega nobs are more likely to have all their attacks due to their 2+ save and multiple wounds, and B: Mega nobs all have PKs, which means they can threaten nearly anything in the game.

Ok Ill take back the Stelek insult. It wasnt really meant as an insult per say, but more like you seem to be so against most Ork tactics Ive seen that you reminded me of his outlook on Orks.


But in saying that calling trukks a suck unit is just beyond crazy. I honestly can understand when people say that about FlashGits, I know Im the humble defender of the Gits but I really do get it. Trukks on the other hand are actually very potent and have proven their usefulness many times over. Also very RARELY have I ever lost that many trukks in one turn, and I dont play against sucky players most the time. Just sticking 1 KFF mek in there makes the trukk go from easy prey to a pain in the ass.

Also comparing them to MANz is silly. Sure they might be similar in points, but you forgot that no MANz mob would ever be marching along the table with no vehicle. So they need a transport. And since they are so costly for a couple of them, you dont wast points on a trukk, you buy a BW. Suddenly the points similarity goes out the window. Im pretty sure in most cases Id take a trukk boyz mob over a MANz mob everytime. Also as a counter and good player facing MANz will try and throw PW attacks at them. They are going last, period. So a couple power weapon hits later, they arnt looking so hot. Where as a trukk mob, sure you killed 3 boyz.....and? Now in a MANz mob, you killed 3 of them....oh crap thats more then half the unit in one turn.....is it hot in here or is it just me?


But I have to say, if you play against someone that uses trukks WRONG, they are terrible. There isnt a tactic or luck on the planet that can un fudge a trukk assault gone wrong, if they are used wrong. As stated earlier you need at least 4 of them, and hitting in the same area is how I do it. Spreading them out just makes them weaker and the damage not so severe. But having them all bash into the same spot in your line hurts....alot. Then they become a serious threat so they become the target, allowing for the rest of your army to come in and play mop up

notabot187 wrote:Battle wagons are rarely if ever a good first turn target. Even if your army has lascannons. Firing a lascannon at a KFF battlewagon is a really poor prospect until that wagon has exposed its sides (which shouldn't happen until turn 2 at the earliest) The shots on turn 1 should be going on the truks, who are usually the most immediate and usually easiest threat to kill.

Most lists I've been playing with and against have the ability to demobilize (stunned, immobile, or destroyed) around 2-3 rhinos type hulls a turn, even with smoke and other cover. Truks aren't that durable. They aren't even as durable as a landspeeder.

If you do get lucky, and get that unit of truk boyz across the boad intact and take out that small unit of devs, sternguard, or whatever... congrats. It isn't like your opponent who placed a unit that close to a truks assault range wasn't prepared to take some loses. Hell, it might even have been bait. Also, those truk boyz are like to have been badly mauled before they got to kill, so are in all likely hood stuck in the open with 6+ saves, low on bodies, and it is the opponents turn.

So there are no Ork fast attacks and infiltrators in this scenario to take care of some of these lascannons? Also those bait units are getting run over by deffrollas so we can continue on to the main assault because that what their heartless general deserves for throwing away units like that

phillosmaster wrote:

notabot187 wrote:Battle wagons are rarely if ever a good first turn target. Even if your army has lascannons. Firing a lascannon at a KFF battlewagon is a really poor prospect until that wagon has exposed its sides (which shouldn't happen until turn 2 at the earliest) The shots on turn 1 should be going on the truks, who are usually the most immediate and usually easiest threat to kill.

Most lists I've been playing with and against have the ability to demobilize (stunned, immobile, or destroyed) around 2-3 rhinos type hulls a turn, even with smoke and other cover. Truks aren't that durable. They aren't even as durable as a landspeeder.

If you do get lucky, and get that unit of truk boyz across the boad intact and take out that small unit of devs, sternguard, or whatever... congrats. It isn't like your opponent who placed a unit that close to a truks assault range wasn't prepared to take some loses. Hell, it might even have been bait. Also, those truk boyz are like to have been badly mauled before they got to kill, so are in all likely hood stuck in the open with 6+ saves, low on bodies, and it is the opponents turn.

So there are no Ork fast attacks and infiltrators in this scenario to take care of some of these lascannons? Also those bait units are getting run over by deffrollas so we can continue on to the main assault because that what their heartless general deserves for throwing away units like that

I use Koptas to take out Dreads and things.

exactly.

Like I said if your shooting at my trukks and not my Battlewagons I win

phillosmaster wrote:exactly.

Yup.

Suicide or Kopta Squads zoom in and take our potential threats, while the Convoy of vehicles rolls across.

notabot187 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Id swear that notabot is stelek in disguise, as Ive had a few debates over how Orks work with him before. Trukks do not suck at all. My main assault is in trukks. You stick a throw away KFF mek in one of them and power them to one of your enemies flanks and watch the "suck" happen. Ive murdered many peoples flanks with trukks.

Trukks work 2 fold if you ask me. Either they A. take all the shots, because they are easy to pop, and leave the battlewagons/rest of the army free to move unmolested. Or 2. they are ignored as "suck" and again move unmolested and then plow into the enemy lines. Ive downed demon princes, sternguard squads and heavy weapon teams with ease with just one trukk mob. So having 4+ ram into one side of your army WILL cause you mass casualties. Not bad for the worst transport "suck" unit in the game.

If Im not going mass shootas, trukks are where its at. I love them. Anytime I play against someone that is tough to beat, I roll trukks.

So anybody who disagrees with you is automatically the BBEG (big bad evil guy) in disguise? There is so many things wrong with this kind of personal attack I don't even know where to start. If you disagree with me, disagree with ME. Not some divisive blog author who got voted off the island for not playing well with others.

Battle wagons are rarely if ever a good first turn target. Even if your army has lascannons. Firing a lascannon at a KFF battlewagon is a really poor prospect until that wagon has exposed its sides (which shouldn't happen until turn 2 at the earliest) The shots on turn 1 should be going on the truks, who are usually the most immediate and usually easiest threat to kill.

Most lists I've been playing with and against have the ability to demobilize (stunned, immobile, or destroyed) around 2-3 rhinos type hulls a turn, even with smoke and other cover. Truks aren't that durable. They aren't even as durable as a landspeeder.

If you do get lucky, and get that unit of truk boyz across the boad intact and take out that small unit of devs, sternguard, or whatever... congrats. It isn't like your opponent who placed a unit that close to a truks assault range wasn't prepared to take some loses. Hell, it might even have been bait. Also, those truk boyz are like to have been badly mauled before they got to kill, so are in all likely hood stuck in the open with 6+ saves, low on bodies, and it is the opponents turn.

So I guess part of my problem with truks is their normal cargo sucks. For 147 you get 11 boys, 1 nob with PK and boss pole. It takes 3 boyz to kill one marine (assuming sluggas) in cc. So assuming all orks survive to hit (which I never assume) you kill 4 marines with regular attacks, and just under 2 with PKs (4 attacks, 2 hits, 5/6 wounds per hit). So just under 6 dead marines. Which is about the same output of meganobs for nearly the same number of points. The difference being that A: Mega nobs are more likely to have all their attacks due to their 2+ save and multiple wounds, and B: Mega nobs all have PKs, which means they can threaten nearly anything in the game.

I don't think folks disagree that 12 Orks on their own suck. I don't think folks disagree that a lone Trukk sucks. They do. What I think folks are discussing is how the Trukks add to the synergy of an overall list. When building a list, you want to saturate your opponent with too many targets for him to stop. If you can get him to make a mistake with target priority (for example, allowing Meganobs to get to your lines unmolested from your example), you stand a good chance for you to start controlling the tempo of the game and now your opponent will be simply reacting to your moves. This is where he loses. Trukks on their own do suck, as do 12 measley Orks. However, think about the army that runs 6 Warbuggies, 3 Battlewagons, 3 Killa Kanz and a couple of Trukks all loaded with Orks. Add in things like 1 or 2 Kustom Force Fields and you realistically need to stop most of this army in two turns or you will be facing large numbers of multi assaults (as stated earlier, if the Ork player reaches the center of the table with the vehicles, he's in range to assault). No matter how you dice it, when somebody gets to roll 100+ dice in one assault phase, things will go away.

Are Trukks the lynchpin of the army; no. Can you forgoe most, if not all vehicles and run a true horde army? Sure and that is where Trukks likely DON'T belong; having a couple of Trukks (which is the only vehicle) to receive the fury of every heavy gun is a recipe for disaster. Running them in conjunction with several other vehicles and generating support for one another is where I think Ork Trukks belong.

I like the Ork trukk for the following reasons:

A. It's cheap.
B. It's a compliment to Battlewagons.

I play mechanized orks, leaning towards 3 Battlewagons with a Trukk of slugga boyz as back-up. The only reason I take a Trukk of boyz is because they can be a good late game objective grabber and add additional weight behind the main assaulting force of boyz and burna boyz jumping out of BWs to go krumpin'.

In short, for a handful of points (150 or so), I get some extra points and versatility that has lower target priority than my Battlewagons and if everything has not already gone south by turn 2-3, a reasonable way to transport my boyz somewhere where I need them.

KingCracker wrote:Trukks on the other hand are actually very potent and have proven their usefulness many times over. Also very RARELY have I ever lost that many trukks in one turn, and I dont play against sucky players most the time. Just sticking 1 KFF mek in there makes the trukk go from easy prey to a pain in the ass.

One variant of competitive Tau list at 1750 would include 3 teams of 6 broadsides in total (can have target lock), 9 Crisis Suits (say with TL Missile Pod to save points), 3 Piranhas (Fusion/Melta), and other small guns.

6 BS4 TL RailGuns, on avg 5 hits (rounded down), all auto pen, all +2 to damage table, all have 5/6 of rendering the trukk useless.

9 BS4 TL Missile Pod, 18 shots, 16 hits, 8 pens (I ll ignore glances for the moment), 8 +1 damage to table, all have 5/6 chance of rendering the trukk useless (only if you roll a 2, it will become 3 and thus weapon destroyed).

Using your KFF to halve the results, 5 trukks in total will be rendered useless in a turn (very much rounded down, and glances not included yet). 3 Fusion Blasters from Piranhas, and other small guns (IF AVAIlLABLE) are not included in my calculation yet.

This is just Tau. IG and Space Wolves PROBABLY have better firepower than this.

Rarely lost that many trukks in a single turn? Now, I conclude you play against sucky players.

Davicus wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Trukks on the other hand are actually very potent and have proven their usefulness many times over. Also very RARELY have I ever lost that many trukks in one turn, and I dont play against sucky players most the time. Just sticking 1 KFF mek in there makes the trukk go from easy prey to a pain in the ass.

One variant of competitive Tau list at 1750 would include 3 teams of 6 broadsides in total (can have target lock), 9 Crisis Suits (say with TL Missile Pod to save points), 3 Piranhas (Fusion/Melta), and other small guns.

6 BS4 TL RailGuns, on avg 5 hits (rounded down), all auto pen, all +2 to damage table, all have 5/6 of rendering the trukk useless.

9 BS4 TL Missile Pod, 18 shots, 16 hits, 8 pens (I ll ignore glances for the moment), 8 +1 damage to table, all have 5/6 chance of rendering the trukk useless (only if you roll a 2, it will become 3 and thus weapon destroyed).

Using your KFF to halve the results, 5 trukks in total will be rendered useless in a turn (very much rounded down, and glances not included yet). 3 Fusion Blasters from Piranhas, and other small guns (IF AVAIlLABLE) are not included in my calculation yet.

This is just Tau. IG and Space Wolves PROBABLY have better firepower than this.

Rarely lost that many trukks in a single turn? Now, I conclude you play against sucky players.

+1

IG and SW both can have more effective firepower than tau. DL spam dark eldar can also put up similar numbers. (20+ DL at 1500 is possible).

I've seen truks weather that kinda of power, I've done it myself. It usually takes some misteps on the opponents side, and some friendly terrain to pull it off.

That's all fine and good. The point is, if that Tau (or Space Wolf, or IG) is shooting at your Trukks, GOOD! They've done what they were intended to do!

And now your BWs, your Stormboyz, your Bikers, your Deff Koptas, your Kommandos, are all right in their face. They used hundreds and hundreds of points-worth of firepower just to dismount your cheap little throw-away Slugga Boy squads. Great!

If you get first turn, trukk spam is devastating. Flat--out 24" up the board, oh look, you're in assault range already. They need to kill your WHOLE army in one turn of shooting. Good luck with that.

Going second, trukks can have trouble; assuming that your opponent is targeting them specifically, and assuming they aren't out of LOS. Worst case scenario, as I said, your opponent has used a great deal of firepower dismounting cheap little units that can now hold your home objectives, or form a back-up wave or troops a turn behind your other vehicles.

Can Trukks be misused? Easily. Are they particularly durable? No. But are they BAD? Absolutely not.

BeRzErKeR wrote:That's all fine and good. The point is, if that Tau (or Space Wolf, or IG) is shooting at your Trukks, GOOD! They've done what they were intended to do!

And now your BWs, your Stormboyz, your Bikers, your Deff Koptas, your Kommandos, are all right in their face. They used hundreds and hundreds of points-worth of firepower just to dismount your cheap little throw-away Slugga Boy squads. Great!

If you get first turn, trukk spam is devastating. Flat--out 24" up the board, oh look, you're in assault range already. They need to kill your WHOLE army in one turn of shooting. Good luck with that.

Going second, trukks can have trouble; assuming that your opponent is targeting them specifically, and assuming they aren't out of LOS. Worst case scenario, as I said, your opponent has used a great deal of firepower dismounting cheap little units that can now hold your home objectives, or form a back-up wave or troops a turn behind your other vehicles.

Can Trukks be misused? Easily. Are they particularly durable? No. But are they BAD? Absolutely not.

I lol-ed at this once again.
I will not be able to ONLY shoot your trukk and leave your wagons alone. I WILL be able to shoot your trukks AS WELL AS your wagons. At 1,750, an ork list with 4 or 5 trukks will have like 1 or at most 2 wagons. Trukks are SOOOO fragile that i ll just have to divert a portion of my firepower to deal with them (notice my calculation above haven't include glancing hits and other arms). If at 1,750 you can have 4 or 5 trukks and STILL have all of the above you have mentioned, I ll definitely take out my calculator and check your list :-).

It's 18 or 19 inch (with rpj) btw, not 24 inches, get the facts right first please.

I don't need to kill your army in one or two turns. I just need to disembark your whole army (which are mostly in those pathetic trukks), and take my time to slowly mow them down.

A trukk within a Wagon spam list - Yes. If you start advocating multiple trukks, I start laughing at you :-)

Davicus wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:That's all fine and good. The point is, if that Tau (or Space Wolf, or IG) is shooting at your Trukks, GOOD! They've done what they were intended to do!

And now your BWs, your Stormboyz, your Bikers, your Deff Koptas, your Kommandos, are all right in their face. They used hundreds and hundreds of points-worth of firepower just to dismount your cheap little throw-away Slugga Boy squads. Great!

If you get first turn, trukk spam is devastating. Flat--out 24" up the board, oh look, you're in assault range already. They need to kill your WHOLE army in one turn of shooting. Good luck with that.

Going second, trukks can have trouble; assuming that your opponent is targeting them specifically, and assuming they aren't out of LOS. Worst case scenario, as I said, your opponent has used a great deal of firepower dismounting cheap little units that can now hold your home objectives, or form a back-up wave or troops a turn behind your other vehicles.

Can Trukks be misused? Easily. Are they particularly durable? No. But are they BAD? Absolutely not.

I lol-ed at this once again.
I will not be able to ONLY shoot your trukk and leave your wagons alone. I WILL be able to shoot your trukks AS WELL AS your wagons. At 1,750, an ork list with 4 or 5 trukks will have like 1 or at most 2 wagons. Trukks are SOOOO fragile that i ll just have to divert a portion of my firepower to deal with them (notice my calculation above haven't include glancing hits and other arms). If at 1,750 you can have 4 or 5 trukks and STILL have all of the above you have mentioned, I ll definitely take out my calculator and check your list :-).

It's 18 or 19 inch (with rpj) btw, not 24 inches, get the facts right first please.

I don't need to kill your army in one or two turns. I just need to disembark your whole army (which are mostly in those pathetic trukks), and take my time to slowly mow them down.

A trukk within a Wagon spam list - Yes. If you start advocating multiple trukks, I start laughing at you :-)

Calm down sir.

No need to be condescending on a forum.

i dont know about all this trukk hating. as a ork speed freak player, i utilise 5 trukks sometimes more, plus biker nobs. i often find that 1 of 2 things happen. either the opposing fire goes into the nob bikers who just laugh at it, or shots at my trukks take out a few. either way, a unit of 12 boys with the standard nob and basic trukk, (rpj, riggers and plates) is only 162. compare that to the tau firepower wich comes close to 400+ (6 broadsides...with drones and upgrades...=270 per unit, assuming 3/team 2 shield drones and BS upgrade for all, and keeping the SMS.= 2 trukks dead, maybe. you still need to hit, and 8 of 10 times i see your static not moving broadsides and keep nice cover between myself and them.) so yea i think the trukks do thier job fine. eitherway, tau have often 1 turn MAYBE 2 of shooting before i hit your lines, and depending on scenario i can come off reserve and hit you the turn i come in. and once those trukks hit, and unload the 46 angry boys, and another 10 nob + warboss, your squishy tau wont last the round. i have played against tau almost primarily latley and ive tried multiple variants of ork mtea. the trukk spam w/boys works 98% of the time. now, battlewagons are a waste if you ask me. coming in at 110 without anytjing other then a rolla, is a waste. it only moves 12, is open topped for any real trasnport use, and has a huge footprint. its just begging to rail cannoned. and honestly, i would rather you rail cannon the trukk wich is only 45 (with plenty more where it came from) then nuking the 160 pt + battlewagon. against a huge gunline, A14 dosent do squat if your open topped, and i would rather have more transports, as seperate targets, smaller footprints and the
better speed.

sorry for the tangent, but im game expirence, i find trukks are more reliable then the battlewagon for trasnport duty. they are faster, smaller (so less of a target, easier to use cover) and can carry a respectable amount of boys. With 5 or more of them target saturation is almost garenteed. and thier speed means a turn 2 charge, turn 3 if your unlucky. if they get popped who cares, its 55 points...(with upgrades)

vrs battlewagons, that even without the deffrolla (which honestly why take the BW without the deffroilla?) or any major guns is still costing close to 150 a pop, just as easy to kill, open topped, and slower? 20 troop cap is nice, but when it gets assploded your loosing 8 of them anyway unless they are nobs or something more durable (in which case your nice expensive unit is now in the open and or foot slogging)

sorry, but ill take my trukks over battlewagons any day of the week. as far as im concerenced they rock. at least untill they allow 20 man nob units. (and fyi: i dont care if the trukks get popped, since really all they are there for is get my boys that 18+ " closer before the charge. after that if they live its gravy, vrs BW getting popped is more of an "ouch" to the whole plan.)

DarthSpader wrote:i dont know about all this trukk hating. as a ork speed freak player, i utilise 5 trukks sometimes more, plus biker nobs. i often find that 1 of 2 things happen. either the opposing fire goes into the nob bikers who just laugh at it, or shots at my trukks take out a few. either way, a unit of 12 boys with the standard nob and basic trukk, (rpj, riggers and plates) is only 162. compare that to the tau firepower wich comes close to 400+ (6 broadsides...with drones and upgrades...=270 per unit, assuming 3/team 2 shield drones and BS upgrade for all, and keeping the SMS.= 2 trukks dead, maybe.

You got your math wrong, so I won't bother to comment on that (being the point efficiency).

You have 5 trukks, and say i assume ALL have cover. Within a turn I disable all your trukks, and use whatever remaining firepower I have on your nob/warboss biker - I ll kill maybe 1 or 2 or them (Fusion Blasters/RailGuns - whatever that is leftover on them).

Now you have 60 boys limping across the board, your bikers hit my line. So what? Go past my 2 layers of kroots while my Suits and Broadsides concentrate fire on your bikers for 2 more turns.

I didnt theoryhammer the above. I ve played as ork and as Tau using the above said lists :-). If you are experienced player, you would have encountered these.

Tau? Seriously Tau? I LOL at Tau when I got my Orks. You destroy all my transports first turn and I'll still roll right over you.

Better luck next year when you might get a new codex

Tau? Really? Of course! Or IG. Or Space Wolves. Or Dark Eldars (and start to fear the new codex). Do you play against any of those? Well, other problem with tau would be if he a foot warrior gunline. Then, I understand the loable win.

I'm with Davicus. 5 trukks and nob bikers? Lets say 3 vendettas, a psyker squad, hydras and a manticore. Wait, even chimeras! Sorry, but first turn you are wrecked. Then, the footslogging rest (the nob bikers had long before rallied, you know, psykers party) get shot. If you arrive... Well, as Davicus said, first eat 2 bubblewrap units... And I'm talking about an average good IG player.

Take 3-4 battlewagons, load em, a KFF, some deffkoptas and lootas, and we talk ok? But if you wanna give me trukks...
Bye!

General_Chaos wrote:Tau? Seriously Tau? I LOL at Tau when I got my Orks. You destroy all my transports first turn and I'll still roll right over you.

Better luck next year when you might get a new codex

Sure kid, I am granting you a chance to prove yourself right on Vassal. Your orks, my Tau.
That is if you dare to reply below :-).

Btw, I m not saying orks sucks (I play orks). But you don't autowin if your list sucks .

No, seriously all of you stfu, and stop stroking your ego/e-peen.

i stand by my statment. ive tried said battlewagon spam, lootas kff etc, and in the end i go back to the trukk. faster, smaller carrys 12, and ramshackle has the chance of not killing boys or moving closer on the eventual wreck. (battlewagons DONT) im not debating those trukks will die. in fact i expect them too. what im stating is that they will die, but not before i crash my boys into your crisis/broadside/firewarrior whatever, or at least get them into a decent waggghhh range. (or at least thats the plan anyway) you've made it clear you dont respect trukks Davicus, thats fine. but dont go around bashing other people because you think you can WTFPWN trukks 100% of the time. and TBH running your/our mouths on the internet about how your X,Y,Z unit is going to bladdeddy blah blah is simply pointless.

I would also pose the question of what, exactly do you bring in a say...1850 pt game? in the intrest of friendly mathhammer and nettheroy, i am curious to your builds, since you might normally be expecting a 2500pt game or something of a larger pt value, when im discussing smaller. fire up a brief summary of your list (even go anti trukk meta if you wish) but seriously, be honest and go with your "general all comers" ill even be a sport and go first. this is my general "all comers" list i break out at the 1850 mark. this is not army list discussion so im not going to detial them furthar. but... lets see what tau do at 1850 yea?

5 trukks
4xboys units
7 nob bikers (diversified w/ painboy etc)
10 nobs on foot (diversified bainboy etc)
2 warboss, 1 on bike

i'd reccomend you just not use them, use wagons instead. The only way I can see trukks being effective is if you have like 8-9 of them.

Well, I'll try my best to explain (I think) Davicus and my point of view: maybe in the other post I wasn't polite, so I apologize for any inconvenience.

First, my 1850 all corners list, whichs is my downgraded 2000 k list, or my upgraded 1500 list, who cares.

CCS 4 meltas & Chimera (ML/HF)
8 Psykers & Chimera (ML/HF)
Veterans (3 meltas) & Chimera (ML/HF)
Veterans (3 meltas) & Chimera (ML/HF)
Veterans (3 meltas & demo) & Chimera (ML/HF)
PCS (4 flamers, kraks)
PIS (autocannon) x2
3x Vendettas (HB sponsons)
1 Leman Russ
2 Hydras in squadron
1 Manticore

Lets supose 2 scenarios (but , of course, every game is different and not so simple to discuss): you go first, I refuse flank. You get closer, but not everythings comes together. I can pop all your trukks and have weapons to make the biker nobs rally. Maybe second turn. So thanks to ramshackle something is in assault range. But in assault range of my bubblewrap PIS. Get my idea?

Lets supoose i go first: you can deploy normally, and get shot and exploded without even moving, or go full reserves, and come piecemeal.

Maybe I was rough saying that trukks suck. And, of course, the two examples are that, examples. Lots of things can happen, but I'm sure, and i did it, that whenever I face them, they simply die. And then, they contents do the same. But thats my case. (And the ork player has indeed real good kan wall lists and battlewagon ones, but when including trukks, they always underperformed).

But YMMV

Bye, and apologizes for any misunderstood from my part.

If you're a real ork player you'll take a truck, even if it is just one of em.

wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

back to OP It's all about the best piece of wargear in the entire game the Kustom Force Field. That's the bottom line you take any vehicle and give it a mobile +4 cover save and it's gunna be a pain in your ass

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

True lol

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

back to OP It's all about the best piece of wargear in the entire game the Kustom Force Field. That's the bottom line you take any vehicle and give it a mobile +4 cover save and it's gunna be a pain in your ass

This is what Ive been saying from the start. I can take 1 throw away KFF mek, and use the KFF to cover 4 trukks, Ive done it many a time. Seriously having to take a 4+ HA THAT SHOT DOESNT WORK save after rolling hits is just simply put, a pain in the ass. You can REALLY see some Tau Fanboi-ism on here. Im not saying Tau are garbage, I personally think all the armies can be pretty badass if used in the right ways. But yea......Your Tau are not AUTO WIN against Orks either. Sure your shooting will do some damage, but your base BS is 3, your missing half your shots anyways. Sure with marker lights your shooting gets better, but not so much Id be talking the trash you guys are.

Also writing up a "perfect" scenario for beating trukks is pretty close to cheating. Yea if you played an Ork player, that DIDNT use cover, and had nothign BUT trukks and boyz inside that list would cream the Orks. Sad part is, you can fit FAR more dangerous Ork units in a 2000+ list. In those points, your not going to be worrying about the trukk boyz. Youll be waiting for koptas to zip in and first turn crunch some vehicles, youll see Snikrot and crew pop up and SMOKE your XV88s, if not first turn, easily by 2, and they are in CC so they wont be AUTO killing anything.

Im not the best Ork player out there by a long shot, infact I mostly play for fun, and dont take uber builds, but Im telling ya, I sure as hell wouldnt be sitting in the open, nerfing my list, just so you can shoot the hell out of my trukks with no KFF meks insight. Trust me, your Tau builds can be countered by Orks fairly easy, SPECIALLY in 5th, where EVERYTHING gets a 4+ cover save, Ork armies as a whole included


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Formosa wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

True lol

Yea dont let this little discussion paint the picture that is DAKKA. It only happens when hot debate happens. Usually this site is decently mannered most the time

here's something that I think is underused.

Take 1-2 Trukks, and put them in reserve. When they come in, have them use their speed to get in and help units that need it. 12 orks on their own aren't very good, but 12 Orks added to an existing combat is huge.


I'm just not a fan of spamming Trukks, Orks are great for spamming tough units, but Trukks just don't fit into this IMO, there's just too much more that outdoes them.

If just talking transports, then trukks win. If looking for a combat tank that dishes some shooting and maybe cart something else around, BW, maybe. Although I contend that for general ranged combat there are better ork options. But JUST talking transport duty ( get up field asap unload and smash) the trukk wins. Here's why.
Trukk pros:
-35 points base.
- 18" move per turn.
- carries 12 men
- ramshackle overrides wrecked and destroyed rolls for 2/3 chance of moving closer or no damage to embarked unit.
CONS:
- armor 10
- open topped.

Battlewagon
Pros: can take lots of guns, and neat upgrades like deffrolla and grabbing klaw
- carries 20 men

Cons:
- 90 points base, has no Inc weapons.
- with weapons and upgrades costs well over 130
- open topped
- side armor 12
- Large model means easier to negate cover with tlos forcing reliance on kff
- slow or avg speed. Takes longer to get in position
- if wrecked good chance of killing or pinning occupants.


Clearly the trukk has less cons, and only marginally better pros. Which are not suited to transport duty. For the cost of 1 battlewagon with only a RPJ and riggers, I can purchase 3 trukks. That's more targets, moving faster, and still bringing decent krumping power.
If I loose a trukk no big deal points wise. It's cheap expendable. Battlewagons are not. And at 120 plus more then 3 become serious investment, that will have a VERY hard time making it's points back.

KingCracker wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

back to OP It's all about the best piece of wargear in the entire game the Kustom Force Field. That's the bottom line you take any vehicle and give it a mobile +4 cover save and it's gunna be a pain in your ass

This is what Ive been saying from the start. I can take 1 throw away KFF mek, and use the KFF to cover 4 trukks, Ive done it many a time. Seriously having to take a 4+ HA THAT SHOT DOESNT WORK save after rolling hits is just simply put, a pain in the ass. You can REALLY see some Tau Fanboi-ism on here. Im not saying Tau are garbage, I personally think all the armies can be pretty badass if used in the right ways. But yea......Your Tau are not AUTO WIN against Orks either. Sure your shooting will do some damage, but your base BS is 3, your missing half your shots anyways. Sure with marker lights your shooting gets better, but not so much Id be talking the trash you guys are.

+4 means that from every glance/pen I score, you have a 50% chance to ignore it. So if I get 2 glance/pen, then (mathhammer, of course) I pass your KFF. You know whats the problem? Tau (and I don't play Tau, I dislike them, I don't like it's fluff, it's minis... but they are good in the game) can simply put enough firepower to pass all your 4 trukks KFF. 10 crisis with Plasma, Missile and MultiTracker( 9 elite and the HQ). 2 XV88, a pair of Kroot units, 2 Hammerheads and the mandatory 6 fire warriors.

Add then something you want, such as some Pirhanas with melta blaster and Flechette Dischargers. The Tau player can use them as another blocking element. And you know that hitting on 6, but before eating up to 5 (5 is the max number of pirhanas in a squadron, isn't it?) wounds on +4 (that depends on the number of pirhanas, and how many dischargers they have), and saving with a +6... You get the idea?

Sorry, but this simply list eats your 4-5 trukks KFF, plus your other add-on units . Even the Tau pulse rifle will wreck one trukk.

Also writing up a "perfect" scenario for beating trukks is pretty close to cheating. Yea if you played an Ork player, that DIDNT use cover, and had nothign BUT trukks and boyz inside that list would cream the Orks. Sad part is, you can fit FAR more dangerous Ork units in a 2000+ list. In those points, your not going to be worrying about the trukk boyz. Youll be waiting for koptas to zip in and first turn crunch some vehicles, youll see Snikrot and crew pop up and SMOKE your XV88s, if not first turn, easily by 2, and they are in CC so they wont be AUTO killing anything.

So now we add Snikrot and friends to the list? Then your aren't using those points on your trukks and their contents, so less target saturation. And, really, this would work if you play a dumb Tau player. Every good player will see Snikrot in your list, and won't simply leave their XV88/Lemans/Artillery... alone. I mean, you are expecting your tactic to work only if your opponent doesnt put some bubblewrap unit behind. Or simply deploys next to the edge, where you won't be able to pass. However, if it happens, hurray! You win a dumb player. If not, your Snikrot happy team will appear (or not, as I said), eat the useless unit, and then get heavy flamed/missiled/kind of dead you prefer to dead.

Oh, and deffkoptas? Ok, these at least starts to seem something with good ork units. Yeah, fisrt turn deffkopta assaults are excellent. However, a good player can, obviously, counter this with good deployment and bubblewrap units. But, of course, you can counter my counterdeploy with a countermove of yourself, and then I'll countermove your own countermove with another counterunit, and we will be discussing till the end of the world

I'm sorry, but I really dislike tactics based on dumb errors.

Im not the best Ork player out there by a long shot, infact I mostly play for fun, and dont take uber builds, but Im telling ya, I sure as hell wouldnt be sitting in the open, nerfing my list, just so you can shoot the hell out of my trukks with no KFF meks insight. Trust me, your Tau builds can be countered by Orks fairly easy, SPECIALLY in 5th, where EVERYTHING gets a 4+ cover save, Ork armies as a whole included

Well, I'm not the best IG guard player too but, as I said, 2 shots negate cover. And a Tau list has enough shots to do that. So your trukks (and we are talking about trukks) will be destroyed. Don't take so easy on Tau, they can mess your day. And if you use trukks, they will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Formosa wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

True lol

Yea dont let this little discussion paint the picture that is DAKKA. It only happens when hot debate happens. Usually this site is decently mannered most the time

hey, let's have a niceee timeee!

Dav_venneto wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

back to OP It's all about the best piece of wargear in the entire game the Kustom Force Field. That's the bottom line you take any vehicle and give it a mobile +4 cover save and it's gunna be a pain in your ass

This is what Ive been saying from the start. I can take 1 throw away KFF mek, and use the KFF to cover 4 trukks, Ive done it many a time. Seriously having to take a 4+ HA THAT SHOT DOESNT WORK save after rolling hits is just simply put, a pain in the ass. You can REALLY see some Tau Fanboi-ism on here. Im not saying Tau are garbage, I personally think all the armies can be pretty badass if used in the right ways. But yea......Your Tau are not AUTO WIN against Orks either. Sure your shooting will do some damage, but your base BS is 3, your missing half your shots anyways. Sure with marker lights your shooting gets better, but not so much Id be talking the trash you guys are.

+4 means that from every glance/pen I score, you have a 50% chance to ignore it. So if I get 2 glance/pen, then (mathhammer, of course) I pass your KFF. You know whats the problem? Tau (and I don't play Tau, I dislike them, I don't like it's fluff, it's minis... but they are good in the game) can simply put enough firepower to pass all your 4 trukks KFF. 10 crisis with Plasma, Missile and MultiTracker( 9 elite and the HQ). 2 XV88, a pair of Kroot units, 2 Hammerheads and the mandatory 6 fire warriors.

Add then something you want, such as some Pirhanas with melta blaster and Flechette Dischargers. The Tau player can use them as another blocking element. And you know that hitting on 6, but before eating up to 5 (5 is the max number of pirhanas in a squadron, isn't it?) wounds on +4 (that depends on the number of pirhanas, and how many dischargers they have), and saving with a +6... You get the idea?

Sorry, but this simply list eats your 4-5 trukks KFF, plus your other add-on units . Even the Tau pulse rifle will wreck one trukk.

Also writing up a "perfect" scenario for beating trukks is pretty close to cheating. Yea if you played an Ork player, that DIDNT use cover, and had nothign BUT trukks and boyz inside that list would cream the Orks. Sad part is, you can fit FAR more dangerous Ork units in a 2000+ list. In those points, your not going to be worrying about the trukk boyz. Youll be waiting for koptas to zip in and first turn crunch some vehicles, youll see Snikrot and crew pop up and SMOKE your XV88s, if not first turn, easily by 2, and they are in CC so they wont be AUTO killing anything.

So now we add Snikrot and friends to the list? Then your aren't using those points on your trukks and their contents, so less target saturation. And, really, this would work if you play a dumb Tau player. Every good player will see Snikrot in your list, and won't simply leave their XV88/Lemans/Artillery... alone. I mean, you are expecting your tactic to work only if your opponent doesnt put some bubblewrap unit behind. Or simply deploys next to the edge, where you won't be able to pass. However, if it happens, hurray! You win a dumb player. If not, your Snikrot happy team will appear (or not, as I said), eat the useless unit, and then get heavy flamed/missiled/kind of dead you prefer to dead.

Oh, and deffkoptas? Ok, these at least starts to seem something with good ork units. Yeah, fisrt turn deffkopta assaults are excellent. However, a good player can, obviously, counter this with good deployment and bubblewrap units. But, of course, you can counter my counterdeploy with a countermove of yourself, and then I'll countermove your own countermove with another counterunit, and we will be discussing till the end of the world

I'm sorry, but I really dislike tactics based on dumb errors.

Im not the best Ork player out there by a long shot, infact I mostly play for fun, and dont take uber builds, but Im telling ya, I sure as hell wouldnt be sitting in the open, nerfing my list, just so you can shoot the hell out of my trukks with no KFF meks insight. Trust me, your Tau builds can be countered by Orks fairly easy, SPECIALLY in 5th, where EVERYTHING gets a 4+ cover save, Ork armies as a whole included

Well, I'm not the best IG guard player too but, as I said, 2 shots negate cover. And a Tau list has enough shots to do that. So your trukks (and we are talking about trukks) will be destroyed. Don't take so easy on Tau, they can mess your day. And if you use trukks, they will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Formosa wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

Formosa wrote:wow.. I came here from warseer because of the ott pompous people that infest it, but looking at some of these posts it looks just as bad.

Internet much?

True lol

Yea dont let this little discussion paint the picture that is DAKKA. It only happens when hot debate happens. Usually this site is decently mannered most the time

hey, let's have a niceee timeee!

You are the poster child, of one of those people that you just CANNOT debate things with, because no matter what someone says, you have a perfect solution for why that wont work. I see people with your mind set often in Tactics forums. They will ask for advice on a list or against whatever, and no matter WHAT people tell them, they always counter with "well I can just do this" and Im tellin ya, in REAL games, just just cant always "do this" and get a V for victory everytime. Like I stated, Im not bashing the Tau, Im not bashing any army, I think they are all good armies in competent hands, but just coming out and saying, nope Orks always lose against X armies because I can "make them do this" is the worst argument someone can pull.

Math hammer it, dont math hammer it, doesnt matter to me, neither do wins/losses as I play for fun, but I have played my fair share of Tau players, and they are far from armies Im nervous playing against. Yes, they have some pretty shooty lists, and their suits pack some pretty nice punch, but they are far from being the baddest army out there against Orks. Im more terrified of Nids/Deldar because they out assault the boyz everytime. Shooting doesnt really scare my play style. So yea, Ill suffer some casualties from Tau shooting, Im an Ork player mate, I can loose MANY boyz before something scary happens. But the problem is against Tau, I can lose half my army to shooting, but as soon as I hit the lines, your Tau are SCREWED. Yes even the suits. As I stated earlier, I have, very successfully, crumped rhinos with no problems with just regular boyz, so a couple suits will be a push over.

Also, I find your comments "dumb players" insulting to the people I play against. And in turn a bit insulting to me. So Im bowing out since in your mind your army lists are un beatable, go ahead and keep thinking that
Ill just go instead, and enjoy the game


(edited for awesome spelling power)

DarthSpader wrote:If just talking transports, then trukks win. If looking for a combat tank that dishes some shooting and maybe cart something else around, BW, maybe. Although I contend that for general ranged combat there are better ork options. But JUST talking transport duty ( get up field asap unload and smash) the trukk wins. Here's why.
Trukk pros:
-35 points base.
- 18" move per turn.
- carries 12 men
- ramshackle overrides wrecked and destroyed rolls for 2/3 chance of moving closer or no damage to embarked unit.
CONS:
- armor 10
- open topped.

Battlewagon
Pros: can take lots of guns, and neat upgrades like deffrolla and grabbing klaw
- carries 20 men

Cons:
- 90 points base, has no Inc weapons.
- with weapons and upgrades costs well over 130
- open topped
- side armor 12
- Large model means easier to negate cover with tlos forcing reliance on kff
- slow or avg speed. Takes longer to get in position
- if wrecked good chance of killing or pinning occupants.


Clearly the trukk has less cons, and only marginally better pros. Which are not suited to transport duty. For the cost of 1 battlewagon with only a RPJ and riggers, I can purchase 3 trukks. That's more targets, moving faster, and still bringing decent krumping power.
If I loose a trukk no big deal points wise. It's cheap expendable. Battlewagons are not. And at 120 plus more then 3 become serious investment, that will have a VERY hard time making it's points back.

You have misread the ramshackle rule, quite badly in fact. The scatter result also causes an explosion. And those explosions can cause pinning. So it is 1/3 chance to do no harm to embarked unit, and 1/3 a chance to have a chance to scatter where ever, which includes towards the opponent, but half the time it scatters A: away, or B: sidways neither farther nor away, C: some combination of the above. You can hem in in with other units to stop scatter, but whatever, once it is wrecked those boyz aren't doing much (since you usually lose 1/3 of them, which is a pin check, and you are no longer fearless).

The 18 inches is nice, except if you actually want to do anything, you only move 12. So for the turn 2 assault, you move 18, then 12. 36 inch 2 turn assault isn't that bad, or even 42 inches if you whaaaargh! A battlewaggon unit goes 12 then 12, then 6 inch assault. That is 30 inches, or 36 inch if you whaaargh!. Either way, that should be enough range to assault most reasonable turn 2 goals. So the truk is exchanging durability for a cheaper cost and 6 inches of movement.

The truk is a huge model. It is about 2/3 the size of battlewagon. It is a pain finding places it actually gets a cover save. So unless it hides behind battlwagons, or KFF, it doesn't get cover too often either (unless you are using the old truks...)

Side armor 12 as a bad thing? What is this? How many base 90 point tanks or transports have a BETTER AV? The armor on a BW is its greatest asset. Even against side shots they can't relly on light anti tank guns like auto cannons or ML to get high percentage shots.

How many other tanks with AV 14 cost the same or less than a proper battle wagon? Oh, right. None.

12 ork capacity isn't a pro, it is a con. 12 orks isn't enough for more than one assault, and often they aren't even up to that. (depending on what you just tried to assault, they can get mauled before attacking)

So most of the pros that you listed for truks: capacity, and ramshackle, are really cons
Most of the cons you listed for the battle wagon are actually pros.

Your "clearly the..." statement is as clear as mud. Other than when battlewagons get destroyed turn 1 (which is usually rare, but does happen) I've rarely not seen them get their points back. 3 of them is NOT a heavy points investment. 360 points is what some people pay for single units (like my TH/SH riding a LRC with MM). 3 different hard to kill tanks with the nastiest ram in the game is a bargain. Also, getting their points back isn't a good benchmark these days, most games aren't VP based, they are kill point and objective based. BW have less chance of giving up Kps, and have a better chance of parking on objectives and lasting.

Where many people go wrong thinking about the battlewagon is 20 boyz isn't much better than 12. Which is true. Boyz are rather underpowered cargo to waste a transport for an assault strategy. So don't put boyz in wagons (or if you do, just take one unit for taking objectives, and your other troops, like grots,to hold your own) Put burna boyz and nobs in battlewagons. Then you can justify spending more points to protect your much more powerful cargo.

I completely agree with Notabot. I see a BW as pure gold IMO. They are base cheap as hell, Ive thrown a base BW in a few time sjust because I had a few points left and hey 90pts is easy to cover. But they are also very durable and flexible. A bw guntrukk can do some damage if used right. And I also agree that you should put burna boyz or nobz in them.

Once I put 20 shoota boyz inside and that was pretty sweet really. Mobile machine gun factory. I wouldnt try that on MEQs at all, but against softer game, that is a scary thing to come at you

Edited, Iphone reply is kind of meh...

There is no need to respond to those if you ask me. The topic is asking where Trukks belong, and most of us say Trukks are not garbage. Again, if you make a perfect scenario on how to take out trukks, they are going down nuff said. Im simply saying, that a competent Ork player will use trukks how they are suppose to be used. Large numbers, and I personally ram them all in the same spot of the enemy lines. So rather then 4+ 12 trukk boy mobs here or there, its 48 or more boyz smashing into one spot of a line.

Yea, if I were a terrible non thinking player, or felt like losing, I guess Id just run them into a LR or the like and laugh at myself for doing that. But no Ork player would do that. Why would I charge them at something that would have a high chance of hulksmashing them? Can you answer me that? Also no Ork player would build a 2000+ build with ALL trukks and nothing else. That was my point earlier. At 2000+ your going to see the badder things in the Ork codex, you will never EVER see an Ork player with just trukks and nothing to cover his ass, or deal with the opponent. Your arguments are just silly, you cannot argue that something is crap, by saying well if they attack this what will you do? Again, why the hell would I send them after something they cant handle?

And Im calling it your Tau, because your defending them to the teeth for some reason. Ya you did mention playing IG once or twice, while going crazy over defending the Tau.


(responded but previous poster deleted post, so yea lol)

i will agree that a battlewagion is cheaper then most comparable other armie tanks. that said, i think its less effective as a trasnport (ive tried, and it either gets killed or ends up chasing stuff around) the faster trukks work better imho. for a battletank role, the ork dont have much. looted wagons and bw basiclly. in that case i think the more versatile BW has the edge. in intrest of keeping on topic, ill just agree to disagree with the BW meta here, since everyone has diffrent expirence and playstyles.

trukks belong i find in 1 of 3 spots. en masse as close to the leading edge of deployment as possible, blitzing the enemy as fast as possible. nob bikers can make for good "wing men" as they can keep pace, and take a decent beating while drawing some fire from the more squishy trukks. they can act as wingmen themselves to screen your battlewagons. (load as many BW as possible, then just run empty naked trukks around to block LOS or give cover to your BW.) or in reserve and entering as a late game second wave. all 3 i find work ok, but my prefrence is to the en masse blitz. hit em hard and fast and dont look back.

I was going to say about simple boyless trukks can be rather good the opponent is going to just be bustin' an empty trukk that has nothing to give but a big shoota when they should be taking the biggies. At 35pts Sure it's worth it mate.

Trukk in part of a list isnt garbage. Multiple trukks are garbage, which is what I see in your list DarthSpader :-). Also, show your list to Hulksmash or DOP or anyone who have some knowledge in orks and they ll tell you what's wrong :-).

KingCracker - I ve already shown you all what a standard (not even optimized) Tau list can do to a mass of trukks (with PROPER MATHHAMMERING), but you chose to ignore it and think your 4+ cover is like 2+ terminator saves. I ve nothing to add to your ignorance :-).

What about a nob mob in a truck? At least once the truck goes boom they have 2 wounds.

cyrax777 wrote:What about a nob mob in a truck? At least once the truck goes boom they have 2 wounds.

Yes but would you want that Mob to be stuck on foot?

Ive done a nobs mob ina trukk before. It totally took the opponent by surprise to see that in a cheap, flimsy trukk. They were expecting boys, and instead got a nasty Nob surprise at their lines. I wouldnt normally suggest it though, but if you play against someone that figures out the way you play, that will definitely get them at least once or twice


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davicus wrote:Trukk in part of a list isnt garbage. Multiple trukks are garbage, which is what I see in your list DarthSpader :-). Also, show your list to Hulksmash or DOP or anyone who have some knowledge in orks and they ll tell you what's wrong :-).

KingCracker - I ve already shown you all what a standard (not even optimized) Tau list can do to a mass of trukks (with PROPER MATHHAMMERING), but you chose to ignore it and think your 4+ cover is like 2+ terminator saves. I ve nothing to add to your ignorance :-).

Call it ignorance all you want. As Ive stated more then a few times, if I played like a complete moron and charged my trukk mobs at units that would pulverize them, then yea your totally correct. But calling me ignorant because you cant come up with something other then "you charge them at this impossible to beat unit" or your Tau are gods on the table top, is fine by me mate. Have at it.

You can have 2 KFFs, 3 min sized nob units in trukks, 6 squads of boys in trukks, 9 rokkit buggies, and 9 kannons in a 2000 point list. Thats the way to use trukks, in mass numbers. 9 trukks with a 4+ will survive long enough, and the sheer amount of firepower you can dish out will keep them at bay.

Now I feel like using that, anyone got 9 trukk to spare? (lol)

Snikkyd wrote:You can have 2 KFFs, 3 min sized nob units in trukks, 6 squads of boys in trukks, 9 rokkit buggies, and 9 kannons in a 2000 point list. Thats the way to use trukks, in mass numbers. 9 trukks with a 4+ will survive long enough, and the sheer amount of firepower you can dish out will keep them at bay.

Now I feel like using that, anyone got 9 trukk to spare? (lol)

Then you get weapons that ignore cover saves.

Flamers are going to wreck trukks? Oh nos!

Snikkyd wrote:Flamers are going to wreck trukks? Oh nos!

Have you ever heard of barrage weapons?

The_Savior wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:Flamers are going to wreck trukks? Oh nos!

Have you ever heard of barrage weapons?

Barrage weapons don't automatically negate a KFF cover save.

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

The_Savior wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:Flamers are going to wreck trukks? Oh nos!

Have you ever heard of barrage weapons?

Barrage weapons don't automatically negate a KFF cover save.

They still mess your KFF up.

The_Savior wrote:

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

The_Savior wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:Flamers are going to wreck trukks? Oh nos!

Have you ever heard of barrage weapons?

Barrage weapons don't automatically negate a KFF cover save.

They still mess your KFF up.

In the 6-9 trukk lists being discussed in this thread, the KFF is going to be embarked on a vehicle. With ramshackle, even an ordinance barrage is going to have a relatively low chance of taking out the big mek.

Yeah, well when you got a bunch tanks that say otherwise... yeah.

The_Savior wrote:Yeah, well when you got a bunch tanks that say otherwise... yeah.

by the same logic, one lascannon doesn't have great odds of taking out a tank, but when you have a bunch of them...yeah.

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

The_Savior wrote:Yeah, well when you got a bunch tanks that say otherwise... yeah.

by the same logic, one lascannon doesn't have great odds of taking out a tank, but when you have a bunch of them...yeah.

I'm only saying in numbers, i.e Mechanized guard.

So yeah we're on the same page.

The blog Blood of Kittens has an interesting post On trukks
http://bloodofkittens.com/2010/10/07/its-like-tactics-interwebz-r-wrong-about-the-ork-trukk/

The battlewagons can hold more, so I'd put the orks in there. Truks? They can hold thenobs hiding behind the battlewagons. Hard boyz work too.

Move 12, pop out 3", wagh d6, assault 6.

Everybody shoots the battlewagons first...

im sticking with my trukk list. it works well for me and ive hardley lost a game with that build. granted sometimes the boys end up on foot, and the trukks get wasted more often then not, but they usualy get to within charge range where i need them. my opinions on the KFF....are mixed. yea itg provides a neat little cover bubble, but TBH i dont enjoy burning a HQ slot that could be a arse smashing warboss or 2, or even a warphead or zogwort on a mek whos much much less then that. and a 4+ cover is not perfect and will in fact fail. (for me anyway i cant make vehicle cover saves for the life of me ergo i think the KFF trick for vehicles is wasted)

General_Chaos wrote:The blog Blood of Kittens has an interesting post On trukks
http://bloodofkittens.com/2010/10/07/its-like-tactics-interwebz-r-wrong-about-the-ork-trukk/

That was a nice read. And really is the same thing we Pro-Trukk guys have been saying from the get go. I well and truly dont get the hate from trukks, they are one of my fav things to take. Trukk mobs do some major damage. And like in that link, and what Ive said before a few times, if you play them how they SHOULD be played they do rather well.


And granted a 4+ cover save isnt a guarantee save, but it makes the trukk mobs WAY more survivable then just driving around

I am a big fan of Nathan Fluger his Ork Defense Force articles are all good reads, even tho I couldn't see myself using his play style.

KingCracker wrote:Call it ignorance all you want. As Ive stated more then a few times, if I played like a complete moron and charged my trukk mobs at units that would pulverize them, then yea your totally correct. But calling me ignorant because you cant come up with something other then "you charge them at this impossible to beat unit" or your Tau are gods on the table top, is fine by me mate. Have at it.

You are ignorant because you don't know what others are talking about, and you don't know what you are talking about.

You trukks mobs will NOT EVEN charge at anything because everything will be on foot within a turn (read my earlier post, I won't repeat myself). As I have shown statiscally, my Tau don't even have to be good/optimized. Mass trukks is just silly.
Your comment "if I played like a complete moron and charged my trukk mobs at units that would pulverize them" is just silly as well because ANYTHING WILL pulverize trukks :-).

I used Tau as an example because in my opinion, IG or Space Wolves will be more devastating. I used the weaker example to prove my point.

You keep bringing up the KFF. If you read my previous post, I have ALREADY taken into account KFF saves. You proved your ignorance once again.

Until you show me the math or explain how a mass of trukks CAN survive a turn of shooting (like the way I did PROPERLY AND COHERENTLY in my previous post), you ll look ignorant to everyone.

DarthSpader wrote:im sticking with my trukk list. it works well for me and ive hardley lost a game with that build. granted sometimes the boys end up on foot, and the trukks get wasted more often then not, but they usualy get to within charge range where i need them.

Hardly lost a game? Ok, I shall not assume your opponents are noob. But I m game to play your "mass trukk" ork list on Vassal, ANYTIME.
"Sometimes" is an understatement. ALL your boys will ALWAYS end up on foot on turn 1, IF your opponent is AT LEAST an average player - I ve shown you the math. Maybe there is something I didnt see. Prove me wrong with YOUR MATH, and elaborate in detail.

The BLood if Kittens post is SILLY. Apart from the rhino costing the same and having an AV value 1 higher than the trukks, there are differences between the Marine army and the Ork army that needs to be pointed out :-

If you are fielding mass trukks, chances are you are mostly assault oriented. You cant afford to lose all your trukks within a turn simply because you NEED to assault. Marines on the other hand, are mainly a shooty army (they CAN assault of course, I m just saying they have greater shooting capability). Go ahead and destroy the rhinos with your lootas. The marine player CAN AFFORD to lose all his rhinos, they DON'T necessarily need to assault. You on the other hand, are bound to lose if ALL your assault element is on foot...

Davicus wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Call it ignorance all you want. As Ive stated more then a few times, if I played like a complete moron and charged my trukk mobs at units that would pulverize them, then yea your totally correct. But calling me ignorant because you cant come up with something other then "you charge them at this impossible to beat unit" or your Tau are gods on the table top, is fine by me mate. Have at it.

You are ignorant because you don't know what others are talking about, and you don't know what you are talking about.

You trukks mobs will NOT EVEN charge at anything because everything will be on foot within a turn (read my earlier post, I won't repeat myself). As I have shown statiscally, my Tau don't even have to be good/optimized. Mass trukks is just silly.
Your comment "if I played like a complete moron and charged my trukk mobs at units that would pulverize them" is just silly as well because ANYTHING WILL pulverize trukks :-).

I used Tau as an example because in my opinion, IG or Space Wolves will be more devastating. I used the weaker example to prove my point.

You keep bringing up the KFF. If you read my previous post, I have ALREADY taken into account KFF saves. You proved your ignorance once again.

Until you show me the math or explain how a mass of trukks CAN survive a turn of shooting (like the way I did PROPERLY AND COHERENTLY in my previous post), you ll look ignorant to everyone.

I'll also add a few points here as well.

Orks who do not get to go first against superior firepower bases that armies like Tau and IG present will invariably die horribly, even if we do take Battlewagons.

Statistically, we are reducing the number of targets to shoot down when we go from say the extreme of 9 Trukks (and 3 more transports if you want to eat up Heavy slots as well) to 3 Battlewagons and maybe 1-2 Trukks. Granted, you are presenting an AV facing of 14 versus 10, but the concentration Ork players have done to pay for quality armor can be eliminated by attacks to Side and Rear armor. And many armies have ways to reduce or eliminate any cover saves we may get for our vehicles (Markerlights from Tau, Orders from IG).

Davicus, the biggest problem I see here is that you are not wrong, but neither is KingCracker. Excessive firepower will smoke a Trukk list, but any mechanzied ork list is going to be prone to elimination and tabling if they have poor LOS issues or the player is a poor tactician and does not hide his armor reasonably.

Assuming orks simply use just Trukks and nothing else for vehicles and targets, a pure Trukk list can be eliminated rather fast. A smart ork player will mix in Deffkoptas and Warbuggies with Twin-linked Rokkits to offer alternate targets for an enemy to shoot.

KingCracker's list for Trukks can be good, as Trukks are a fast transport and are akin to Dark Eldar Raiders in the sense that massive numbers of transports can overwhelm lists not packing long range weaponry that can take down a huge number of targets within 2 turns. However, in the case versus Tau and Dark Eldar and IG, the firepower these lists can bring will eliminate an Ork army if that Ork army cannot go first.

But again, it comes down to the boiled points stated before:

1. Trukk player has to be a moron to make the list absolutely horrible.
2. Firepower based lists will eat Ork trukks (and mech orks in general).
3. Going first is key for the Orks to succeed.

EDIT: Here is Dash's post-battle report regarding a similar circumstance. He faced IG massed firepower, went second, and got torched:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300212.page

DOUBLE EDIT: The mission and conditions versus his army were stacked either way, but the withering load of firepower that IG brought to the table and the huge open spaces between Dash's army and his opponent with clear LOS, it did take about 3 turns to evaoprate the Ork army to a few units and broken vehicles.

WarOne wrote: Orks who do not get to go first against superior firepower bases that armies like Tau and IG present will invariably die horribly, even if we do take Battlewagons.

Wrong. Anything S7 or less cant do a thing to AV14. Reducing the effectiveness of your opponent's range of weaponry is the key.

WarOne wrote:Statistically, we are reducing the number of targets to shoot down when we go from say the extreme of 9 Trukks (and 3 more transports if you want to eat up Heavy slots as well) to 3 Battlewagons and maybe 1-2 Trukks. Granted, you are presenting an AV facing of 14 versus 10, but the concentration Ork players have done to pay for quality armor can be eliminate by attacks to Side and Rear armor. And many armies have ways to reduce or eliminate any cover saves we may get for our vehicles (Markerlights from Tau, Orders from IG).

I don't know how your can shoot my rear armour on turn 1, or even turn 2, which are the key turns, enlighten me. I don't care if my wagon is wrecked on turn 3, for obvious reasons which you should know. Side armour, maybe yes, maybe no, depending on deployment type. But still, anything S5 or less is made obsolete. And tackling your argument on quantity of targets versus quality of targets, 3 trukks is less survivable than 1 Wagon (do your own math, but if you need help, feel free to pm me ).

WarOne wrote:Davicus, the biggest problem I see here is that you are not wrong, but neither is KingCracker. Excessive firepower will smoke a Trukk list, but any mechanzied ork list is going to be prone to elimination and tabling if they have poor LOS issues or the player is a poor tactician and does not hide his armor reasonably.

There is no way you can hide a vehicle's armour that is 10 all around :-).

WarOne wrote:Assuming orks simply use just Trukks and nothing else for vehicles and targets, a pure Trukk list can be eliminated rather fast. A smart ork player will mix in Deffkoptas and Warbuggies with Twin-linked Rokkits to offer alternate targets for an enemy to shoot.

And now I ll teach you something that is smart. Eliminate all the trukks and koptas on turn 1 (I ve shown you how many AV 10 i can make useless in a turn), buggies cant assault you :-). You can afford to eat a few rokkits for a turn, but you cant afford to be assaulted by the orks. Target priority dude.

WarOne wrote:KingCracker's list for Trukks can be good, as Trukks are a fast transport and are akin to Dark Eldar Raiders in the sense that massive numbers of transports can overwhelm lists not packing long range weaponry that can take down a huge number of targets within 2 turns. However, in the case versus Tau and Dark Eldar and IG, the firepower these lists can bring will eliminate an Ork army if that Ork army cannot go first.

List? Where?

Davicus wrote:

WarOne wrote: Orks who do not get to go first against superior firepower bases that armies like Tau and IG present will invariably die horribly, even if we do take Battlewagons.

Wrong. Anything S7 or less cant do a thing to AV14. Reducing the effectiveness of your opponent's range of weaponry is the key.

And what do lists of IG and Tau have?

*drum roll please*

Large armounts of Str 8 or higher weaponry.

We pay to eliminate small arms fire that can hurt us as mech ork players, but we are putting more eggs into our basket by taking 3 Battlewagons as opposed to 9 Trukks. We may be reducing the range of effectiveness, but are we also offering fewer targets to fire at in the first place by taking fewer transports?

WarOne wrote:Statistically, we are reducing the number of targets to shoot down when we go from say the extreme of 9 Trukks (and 3 more transports if you want to eat up Heavy slots as well) to 3 Battlewagons and maybe 1-2 Trukks. Granted, you are presenting an AV facing of 14 versus 10, but the concentration Ork players have done to pay for quality armor can be eliminated by attacks to Side and Rear armor. And many armies have ways to reduce or eliminate any cover saves we may get for our vehicles (Markerlights from Tau, Orders from IG).

Davicus wrote:I don't know how your can shoot my rear armour on turn 1, or even turn 2, which are the key turns, enlighten me. I don't care if my wagon is wrecked on turn 3, for obvious reasons which you should know. Side armour, maybe yes, maybe no, depending on deployment type. But still, anything S5 or less is made obsolete. And tackling your argument on quantity of targets versus quality of targets, 3 trukks is less survivable than 1 Wagon (do your own math, but if you need help, feel free to pm me ).

I'm not shooting your rear armor, you are shooting me in the context of my speech where I am playing the ork player and you are the opponent (Tau, IG, ect.).

Vendettas can turbo-boost a scout move and then move and shoot on their turn. IG can definately hit side armor on turn 1 if they so please, and rear armor if the Ork player moves a full 12"-13" for his move if he goes first. Tau can take Stealth Suits with Infiltrate and set up dangerously close to side and possible rear armor. There are possibilities that rear armor can be targeted. On turn 2, we can talk deep strikers and reserves. Tau Monats with Twin-linked fusion blasters can sneak behind an Ork line of BWs and plink off shots to rear armor. Marbo from IG can pop up behind units and detonate Melta bombs or demo charges. There are ways an opponent can get behind you.

If your opponent has one unit that has the ability to shoot at one unit, 2 of 3 trukks will survive the onslaught versus 1 battlewagon. Now if we are talking differences of weapon strength, then we can statistically mathhammer different scenarios versus different strengths versus the armor we have that is getting hit and find a Battlewagon will survive longer than a Trukk in most instances. And if we add more than one unit versus the three trukks or 1 BW firing at them, we are also now favoring the Battlewagon in terms of survivability more so than the Trukks.

WarOne wrote:Davicus, the biggest problem I see here is that you are not wrong, but neither is KingCracker. Excessive firepower will smoke a Trukk list, but any mechanzied ork list is going to be prone to elimination and tabling if they have poor LOS issues or the player is a poor tactician and does not hide his armor reasonably.

Davicus wrote:There is no way you can hide a vehicle's armour that is 10 all around :-).

Hide=eliminate LOS to a target. So a Trukk can hide by eliminating LOS to the unit attempting to Target it.

WarOne wrote:Assuming orks simply use just Trukks and nothing else for vehicles and targets, a pure Trukk list can be eliminated rather fast. A smart ork player will mix in Deffkoptas and Warbuggies with Twin-linked Rokkits to offer alternate targets for an enemy to shoot.

Davicus wrote:And now I ll teach you something that is smart. Eliminate all the trukks and koptas on turn 1 (I ve shown you how many AV 10 i can make useless in a turn), buggies cant assault you :-). You can afford to eat a few rokkits for a turn, but you cant afford to be assaulted by the orks. Target priority dude.

And that is if you go first. Again, I am preaching if you do go first, then yes this will happen. I did state a conditional that a Trukk army that does not go first will lose and lost horribly.

Did I not mention that Trukks will die horribly if they cannot get to go first?

WarOne wrote:KingCracker's list for Trukks can be good, as Trukks are a fast transport and are akin to Dark Eldar Raiders in the sense that massive numbers of transports can overwhelm lists not packing long range weaponry that can take down a huge number of targets within 2 turns. However, in the case versus Tau and Dark Eldar and IG, the firepower these lists can bring will eliminate an Ork army if that Ork army cannot go first.

Davicus wrote:List? Where?

KingCracker lists as his theoretical minimum as 4 Trukks for an Ork army. Since he seems to advocate taking a large number of Trukks, I am using his post from before as a flimsy outline of a "list" wherein he would place multiple Trukks into a list. He does state however he would not take an abundance of Trukks over 2000 points to a game, so this "list" does not exist above that point total.

I don't understand the hostility you have towards this argument with me. As far as I know, I am attempting to mediate two points of view towards Trukks as there can be a useful list for orks if they take a max Trukk list and we have not had sour relationships before. Theoretical mathhammering proves a Tau and IG and other superior firepower lists can demolish an Ork Trukk list and I agree, so why are you adding into the context of this debate words that appear confrontational and aggressive?

The Internet is serious business guys.

But seriously, this is about how many should belong in a certain list, and why.

Not well my army could do this blah, blah, blah. Vassal match now, blah, blah.

I'm using 2 Trukks on my Wagon Spam. Enough said.

The_Savior wrote:The Internet is serious business guys.

But seriously, this is about how many should belong in a certain list, and why.

Not well my army could do this blah, blah, blah. Vassal match now, blah, blah.

I'm using 2 Trukks on my Wagon Spam. Enough said.

At least the arguments have brought you to this conclusion. Hopefully these discussions help enhance your ability to see through various strategies and lists designed to win and see some validity it what can and cannot work.

WarOne wrote:We pay to eliminate small arms fire that can hurt us as mech ork players, but we are putting more eggs into our basket by taking 3 Battlewagons as opposed to 9 Trukks. We may be reducing the range of effectiveness, but are we also offering fewer targets to fire at in the first place by taking fewer transports?

I don't understand what is it that you are not seeing, but it appears you think greater number will make you feel better. If 3 wagons survive better than 9 trukks (which IS the case), yes I ll take 3 wagons. I m sorry, you are using the analogy of "more eggs into 1 basket" wrongly here. So wrong that I dont know how to enlighten you.

WarOne wrote:I'm not shooting your rear armor, you are shooting me in the context of my speech where I am playing the ork player and you are the opponent (Tau, IG, ect.).

So from whichever aspect you are talking about, you cant normally target the rear armour of a wagon, and therefore your argument on this is a moot one, i.e you have to handle the AV14 or AV12 - suck thumb.

WarOne wrote:Vendettas can turbo-boost a scout move and then move and shoot on their turn. IG can definately hit side armor on turn 1 if they so please, and rear armor if the Ork player moves a full 12"-13" for his move if he goes first. Tau can take Stealth Suits with Infiltrate and set up dangerously close to side and possible rear armor. There are possibilities that rear armor can be targeted. On turn 2, we can talk deep strikers and reserves. Tau Monats with Twin-linked fusion blasters can sneak behind an Ork line of BWs and plink off shots to rear armor. Marbo from IG can pop up behind units and detonate Melta bombs or demo charges. There are ways an opponent can get behind you.

Sorry, I am assuming you are an incompetent ork player if one of the above happens to you. I, for one, know how to refuse flank my opponent, cover footprints, etc. Also, deepstrike, reserves, etc happen on turn 2 OR even later. As oppose to your trukks being expose to say 1,750 points worth of fire on turn 1, my wagons are only taking in about 1,000 points worth of fire (the balance either being in reserve, or weapons that are unable to hurt AV12 or AV14).

WarOne wrote:If your opponent has one unit that has the ability to shoot at one unit, 2 of 3 trukks will survive the onslaught versus 1 battlewagon. Now if we are talking differences of weapon strength, then we can statistically mathhammer different scenarios versus different strengths versus the armor we have that is getting hit and find a Battlewagon will survive longer than a Trukk in most instances. And if we add more than one unit versus the three trukks or 1 BW firing at them, we are also now favoring the Battlewagon in terms of survivability more so than the Trukks.

Your argument here don't make sense to me, nor is it sound. I cant comment much.

WarOne wrote:Hide=eliminate LOS to a target. So a Trukk can hide by eliminating LOS to the unit attempting to Target it.

Hide 5 or 9 trukks? Don't waste my time by making a comment like this, seriously... ...

WarOne wrote:And that is if you go first. Again, I am preaching if you do go first, then yes this will happen. I did state a conditional that a Trukk army that does not go first will lose and lost horribly.

LOL, ok golden point made. My list does not automatically lose if I go 2nd. Really, if you make a list that will only win (or most probably win) if you go first, I wouldnt want to play 40k with you. I like challenge.

WarOne wrote:
KingCracker lists as his theoretical minimum as 4 Trukks for an Ork army. Since he seems to advocate taking a large number of Trukks, I am using his post from before as a flimsy outline of a "list" wherein he would place multiple Trukks into a list. He does state however he would not take an abundance of Trukks over 2000 points to a game, so this "list" does not exist above that point total.

Stop assuming. I didnt see any list, so won't even waste time with you make assumptions.

WarOne wrote:I don't understand the hostility you have towards this argument with me. As far as I know, I am attempting to mediate two points of view towards Trukks as there can be a useful list for orks if they take a max Trukk list and we have not had sour relationships before.

I did the math and I really dont see how any list can take out 9 trukks with a kff in one turn. My math must be off, because once you figure in rolling to hit, and the KFF save, your odds of connecting aren't that great, and even though they are easy to pen and wreck, its not a guarantee. But apparently I'm wrong?

Like I said, 9 Trukks,9 warbuggies,9 kannnons, and 2 KFFs to cover it all, are tau going to roflstomp that as easy as you say?

Snikkyd wrote:I did the math and I really dont see how any list can take out 9 trukks with a kff in one turn. My math must be off, because once you figure in rolling to hit, and the KFF save, your odds of connecting aren't that great, and even though they are easy to pen and wreck, its not a guarantee. But apparently I'm wrong?

Like I said, 9 Trukks,9 warbuggies,9 kannnons, and 2 KFFs to cover it all, are tau going to roflstomp that as easy as you say?

A couple of assumptions on your comment above.

1) I m assuming your list is 1,750, because I referenced my example to a 1,750 point army. I have shown that any decent list can make 5-6 trukks useless in a single turn. If you are taking 9 trukks at 1750, you will have nothing else. Even so, there is difficulty in trying to squeeze in 6 trukks of boys + 3 trukks of nobs into 1750. Even if you manage to do that, you don't need me to tell you that a list like that is crap, do I?
2) Your 2nd sentence made me feel like my assumption above is wrong. You are trying to play something like 2,000 or 2,500 points worth of orks against my 1750 shooty army.
So why not you make the effort and reference properly to my argument and offer your counter? Instead of trying to be lazy and hope you can bring your point across?

Yes its 2000, whats with the rage?

5-6 Trukks per turn? Yeah, with Tau, but heres the math I did correct me if its off and I'll believe you.

I took my SW list, which has 22 Missles.

22 Missles at BS4 is an average of 14 hits per turn.

They have a 2/3 chance of getting a pen. on average they will get 5 pens and 2 glances.

Pens have a 5/6 chance of effecting them.

Glances have a 1/2 chance.


They will get an average of 5 results, but thats before the KFF save, which lowers it to 2.5, which we can round to 3.

I realize this is pretty sloppy mathhammer, but it seems to be correct, and while this army had nothing but missles, it had a lot of tem, and most SW armies i see don't have more than 22 combined ML and LC shots.

Also, they aren't shooting at anything else while this is happening, and I have quite a lot of firepower elsewhere, so I honestly don't see how that list is "crap".

Snikkyd wrote:Yes its 2000, whats with the rage?

When you try to cheat by using 2k list against my 1750, I rage

Snikkyd wrote:I realize this is pretty sloppy mathhammer, but it seems to be correct

Indeed sloppy, and not correct..

Snikkyd wrote:I took my SW list, which has 22 Missles.

22 Missles at BS4 is an average of 14 hits per turn.
They have a 2/3 chance of getting a pen. on average they will get 5 pens and 2 glances.

Wrong. If you want me to insult your intelligence by calculating here for you, I ll do so. I really can.

Snikkyd wrote:Also, they aren't shooting at anything else while this is happening, and I have quite a lot of firepower elsewhere, so I honestly don't see how that list is "crap".

In the first place, you won't have nothing else or nothing much for them to shoot at. Tell me you have 6 trukks of boys + 3 trukks of a few nobs each, and I ll tell you you don't have much room left in 2,000 pt.

I can tell your math is not very good.

I just said I have 9 Warbuggies and 9 Kannons in a 2K list. Thats a lot more than nothing.

After doing the math more precisely I'm getting an average of 4-5 Trukks per turn. Happy? And please don't bother explaining the math to me.

Look, I don't use that list, I just made it up because I thought it would be interesting to play. I never intended to get in a pointless internet argument over my imaginary army, I was simply saying that I believe it has a chance against almost anyone due to pure target saturation. I has much more than the Trukks. Could I do well? Probably not, since I've never used it, but a skilled player who knows the list well could.

Your trying to insult my intelligence? Your the one who started what is turning into an internet flame war, so I'm not sure thats a good position for you.

I really couldn't care less about whether or not your completely awesome army of plastic men can beat up my theoretical one, so I'm done with this thread, seeing as I don't use trukks anyway.

Snikkyd wrote:I just said I have 9 Warbuggies and 9 Kannons in a 2K list. Thats a lot more than nothing.

You are spewing rubbish. 9 naked rokkit buggies = 315. 6 trukks of boys with ram = 912pts. 3 trukks for the nobs = 120 pts. 9 naked kannon = 180pts. Total about 1527 points. A HQ (say KFF mek) + 3 trukks of a few nobs each that cost less than 500 points? Now, stop trolling... Snikkyd, I welcome opposing views, even if they are weak. But not when you don't even bother (or is plain lazy) to even provide a proper platform for your argument. If that's the case, why bother posting anything in the first place?

Snikkyd wrote:After doing the math more precisely I'm getting an average of 4-5 Trukks per turn. Happy? And please don't bother explaining the math to me.

So you drive 4 trukks of boys into the space wolves line? Really? Go ahead and let them have you for breakfast.

Snikkyd wrote:Look, I don't use that list, I just made it up because I thought it would be interesting to play. I never intended to get in a pointless internet argument over my imaginary army, I was simply saying that I believe it has a chance against almost anyone due to pure target saturation. I has much more than the Trukks. Could I do well? Probably not, since I've never used it, but a skilled player who knows the list well could.

Then until you are the skilled player and can find a way to make mass trukks competitive, don't post mediocre stuff here, hoping anyone will be impressed.

Snikkyd wrote:seeing as I don't use trukks anyway.

Which explains the quality of your contribution.

Davicus wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:I just said I have 9 Warbuggies and 9 Kannons in a 2K list. Thats a lot more than nothing.

You are spewing rubbish. 9 naked rokkit buggies = 315. 6 trukks of boys with ram = 912pts. 3 trukks for the nobs = 120 pts. 9 naked kannon = 180pts. Total about 1527 points. A HQ (say KFF mek) + 3 trukks of a few nobs each that cost less than 500 points? Now, stop trolling... Snikkyd, I welcome opposing views, even if they are weak. But not when you don't even bother (or is plain lazy) to even provide a proper platform for your argument. If that's the case, why bother posting anything in the first place?

Snikkyd wrote:After doing the math more precisely I'm getting an average of 4-5 Trukks per turn. Happy? And please don't bother explaining the math to me.

So you drive 4 trukks of boys into the space wolves line? Really? Go ahead and let them have you for breakfast.

Snikkyd wrote:Look, I don't use that list, I just made it up because I thought it would be interesting to play. I never intended to get in a pointless internet argument over my imaginary army, I was simply saying that I believe it has a chance against almost anyone due to pure target saturation. I has much more than the Trukks. Could I do well? Probably not, since I've never used it, but a skilled player who knows the list well could.

Then until you are the skilled player and can find a way to make mass trukks competitive, don't post mediocre stuff here, hoping anyone will be impressed.

Snikkyd wrote:seeing as I don't use trukks anyway.

Which explains the quality of your contribution.

Until he realizes, everyone is a big guy on the other side of a computer screen.

We pretty much covered all we need to know, and your obnoxiousness isn't helping. But thanks for your imaginary Warhammer lists.

Also, you should see me on Vassal, I'll be happy to show you a thing or two. As long as you agree to hush-hush.

With love,
The_Savior
P.S. Waaagh!

WarOne wrote:We pay to eliminate small arms fire that can hurt us as mech ork players, but we are putting more eggs into our basket by taking 3 Battlewagons as opposed to 9 Trukks. We may be reducing the range of effectiveness, but are we also offering fewer targets to fire at in the first place by taking fewer transports?

Davicus wrote:I don't understand what is it that you are not seeing, but it appears you think greater number will make you feel better. If 3 wagons survive better than 9 trukks (which IS the case), yes I ll take 3 wagons. I m sorry, you are using the analogy of "more eggs into 1 basket" wrongly here. So wrong that I dont know how to enlighten you.

No...I am stating that 3 Battlewagons versus 9 Trukks can be potentially fatal as the crux of a list. We lost 6 targets to take better transports, so we lose numbers for better armor value. A Battlewagon list can still be defeated by an opponent.

WarOne wrote:I'm not shooting your rear armor, you are shooting me in the context of my speech where I am playing the ork player and you are the opponent (Tau, IG, ect.).

Davicus wrote:So from whichever aspect you are talking about, you cant normally target the rear armour of a wagon, and therefore your argument on this is a moot one, i.e you have to handle the AV14 or AV12 - suck thumb.

It is possible to shoot the back of a Battlewagon. Often- it is side or front armor, but you can target the back of a Battlewagon.

WarOne wrote:Vendettas can turbo-boost a scout move and then move and shoot on their turn. IG can definately hit side armor on turn 1 if they so please, and rear armor if the Ork player moves a full 12"-13" for his move if he goes first. Tau can take Stealth Suits with Infiltrate and set up dangerously close to side and possible rear armor. There are possibilities that rear armor can be targeted. On turn 2, we can talk deep strikers and reserves. Tau Monats with Twin-linked fusion blasters can sneak behind an Ork line of BWs and plink off shots to rear armor. Marbo from IG can pop up behind units and detonate Melta bombs or demo charges. There are ways an opponent can get behind you.

Davicus wrote:Sorry, I am assuming you are an incompetent ork player if one of the above happens to you. I, for one, know how to refuse flank my opponent, cover footprints, etc. Also, deepstrike, reserves, etc happen on turn 2 OR even later. As oppose to your trukks being expose to say 1,750 points worth of fire on turn 1, my wagons are only taking in about 1,000 points worth of fire (the balance either being in reserve, or weapons that are unable to hurt AV12 or AV14).

I forgive you that you assume I am an incompetent ork player. If you were to run a maximum Trukk list inside a 1750 game versus Tau, IG, ect.- how would you attempt to win?

I am detailing scenarios wherein side and rear armor can be targeted. Yes, I did agree earlier that the range of effectiveness is shortened, so not as much of your list could affect Battlewagons.

A good player can still get to your side and even rear armor, even if you are a good player.

WarOne wrote:If your opponent has one unit that has the ability to shoot at one unit, 2 of 3 trukks will survive the onslaught versus 1 battlewagon. Now if we are talking differences of weapon strength, then we can statistically mathhammer different scenarios versus different strengths versus the armor we have that is getting hit and find a Battlewagon will survive longer than a Trukk in most instances. And if we add more than one unit versus the three trukks or 1 BW firing at them, we are also now favoring the Battlewagon in terms of survivability more so than the Trukks.

Davicus wrote:Your argument here don't make sense to me, nor is it sound. I cant comment much.

I am simply outlining an argument of numbers. 2 of 3 Trukks can survive one unit shooting at them while a Battlewagon can probably survive, but if it doesn't, will not. This is in relation to talking about shooting armies. Tau and IG can field large preponderances of weaponry. Other lists will not be able to shoot down all the Trukks.

WarOne wrote:Hide=eliminate LOS to a target. So a Trukk can hide by eliminating LOS to the unit attempting to Target it.

Daviucs wrote:Hide 5 or 9 trukks? Don't waste my time by making a comment like this, seriously... ...

You can block LOS to opponents and deny them the ability to attack at range. Terrain can be used to your advantage. Trukks can be hidden from view.

WarOne wrote:And that is if you go first. Again, I am preaching if you do go first, then yes this will happen. I did state a conditional that a Trukk army that does not go first will lose and lost horribly.

WarOne wrote:LOL, ok golden point made. My list does not automatically lose if I go 2nd. Really, if you make a list that will only win (or most probably win) if you go first, I wouldnt want to play 40k with you. I like challenge.

Well, I am outlining the situation here. Ork Trukks are vulnerable to large volumes of firepower. If those ork players were to go second, there is a good chance that the trukks will be destroyed or unable to transport their cargo. Against other lists, the Ork Trukks could still compete.

WarOne wrote:
KingCracker lists as his theoretical minimum as 4 Trukks for an Ork army. Since he seems to advocate taking a large number of Trukks, I am using his post from before as a flimsy outline of a "list" wherein he would place multiple Trukks into a list. He does state however he would not take an abundance of Trukks over 2000 points to a game, so this "list" does not exist above that point total.

Davicus wrote: Stop assuming. I didnt see any list, so won't even waste time with you make assumptions.

But you have to assume in order to make an argument here. His theoretical list had multiple trukks. In fact, we are doing alot of assumption here in this debate as we are constructing the situation and the conditions present.

WarOne wrote:I don't understand the hostility you have towards this argument with me. As far as I know, I am attempting to mediate two points of view towards Trukks as there can be a useful list for orks if they take a max Trukk list and we have not had sour relationships before.

The_Savior wrote:Also, you should see me on Vassal, I'll be happy to show you a thing or two. As long as you agree to hush-hush.

Don't empty talk . Post your nick, and date and time of challenge here . I ll be happy if you really are capable of showing me something.

WarOne wrote:No...I am stating that 3 Battlewagons versus 9 Trukks can be potentially fatal as the crux of a list. We lost 6 targets to take better transports, so we lose numbers for better armor value. A Battlewagon list can still be defeated by an opponent.

9 trukks can never be potentially fatal, not when your contents are almost always footslogging. An ork list that cant assault is silly, not fatal.

WarOne wrote:It is possible to shoot the back of a Battlewagon. Often- it is side or front armor, but you can target the back of a Battlewagon.

Go freaking read properly what I said, don't give stupid comments (hint - turns).

WarOne wrote:I forgive you that you assume I am an incompetent ork player. If you were to run a maximum Trukk list inside a 1750 game versus Tau, IG, ect.- how would you attempt to win?.

I wont run such a dumb list, and therefore don't have to ATTEMPT to win. Why would I want to play at a disadvantage?.

Davicus wrote:

The_Savior wrote:Also, you should see me on Vassal, I'll be happy to show you a thing or two. As long as you agree to hush-hush.

Don't empty talk . Post your nick, and date and time of challenge here . I ll be happy if you really are capable of showing me something.

Isn't it obvious... ?

I'm on during 6AM - 2PM (Depending on personal plans.) if not...

10PM - Whenver I want to sleep. (Unless I don't feel like it.)

But answer me this... are you just competitive or a typical nerd? (There is a difference, one means you get exercise.)

Man I just LOVE adding your opinion to a tactic and instead of friendly debates or more input you get insulted for more then 2 pages
Consider this one alerted

The_Savior wrote:

Davicus wrote:

The_Savior wrote:Also, you should see me on Vassal, I'll be happy to show you a thing or two. As long as you agree to hush-hush.

Don't empty talk . Post your nick, and date and time of challenge here . I ll be happy if you really are capable of showing me something.

Isn't it obvious... ?

I'm on during 6AM - 2PM (Depending on personal plans.) if not...

10PM - Whenver I want to sleep. (Unless I don't feel like it.)

But answer me this... are you just competitive or a typical nerd? (There is a difference, one means you get exercise.)

I m competitive enough to trash you. Now, you havent gave your nick.

Also, i ll see you in vassal one hour from now.

Davicus wrote:

The_Savior wrote:

Davicus wrote:

The_Savior wrote:Also, you should see me on Vassal, I'll be happy to show you a thing or two. As long as you agree to hush-hush.

Don't empty talk . Post your nick, and date and time of challenge here . I ll be happy if you really are capable of showing me something.

Isn't it obvious... ?

I'm on during 6AM - 2PM (Depending on personal plans.) if not...

10PM - Whenver I want to sleep. (Unless I don't feel like it.)

But answer me this... are you just competitive or a typical nerd? (There is a difference, one means you get exercise.)

I m competitive enough to trash you. Now, you havent gave your nick.

Also, i ll see you in vassal one hour from now.

My nick is my forum name.

However... I said if I had personal plans. Which I do... it's going to sleep.

I'll pretend to care when I'm not tired... have fun.

With love,

The_Savior

P.S. You sound sexy when you talk big. ;D

lol.

In that case, don't empty talk. Try speaking louder next time after you grow some balls. Till then, you are at best hilarious.
Talk big or not, you are always welcomed to find out .

KingCracker wrote:Man I just LOVE adding your opinion to a tactic and instead of friendly debates or more input you get insulted for more then 2 pages
Consider this one alerted

And I love the fact that instead of contributing anything constructive, you have only given silly comments thus far. Is that the best you caN do, NoobCracker?

Davicus wrote:lol.

In that case, don't empty talk. Try speaking louder next time after you grow some balls. Till then, you are at best hilarious.
Talk big or not, you are always welcomed to find out .

You realize you can't make text go loud right? Unless I CAPS LOCK...

With love,
The_Savior

P.S. Shame on you coming on to me like that, naughty boy.

ITT: Success.

The_Savior wrote:

Davicus wrote:lol.

In that case, don't empty talk. Try speaking louder next time after you grow some balls. Till then, you are at best hilarious.
Talk big or not, you are always welcomed to find out .

You realize you can't make text go loud right? Unless I CAPS LOCK...

ITT: Success.

Try harder using silly comments to hide your ignorance, kid :-)

Davicus wrote:

The_Savior wrote:

Davicus wrote:lol.

In that case, don't empty talk. Try speaking louder next time after you grow some balls. Till then, you are at best hilarious.
Talk big or not, you are always welcomed to find out .

You realize you can't make text go loud right? Unless I CAPS LOCK...

ITT: Success.

Try harder using silly comments to hide your ignorance, kid :-)

Hey man, whatever helps you sleep.

You're down to the same level as me.

Again with the ignorance thing. So far from what I remember youve now insulted 3 people on here, calling all of us ignorant. Whats your deal Davicus? From what Ive read, NONE of us on here said anything to warrant such asshatery

The_Savior wrote:
You're down to the same level as me.

Attempt to associate yourself with KingCracker, that may help :-)

KingCracker wrote:Again with the ignorance thing. So far from what I remember youve now insulted 3 people on here, calling all of us ignorant. Whats your deal Davicus? From what Ive read, NONE of us on here said anything to warrant such asshatery

Instead of providing counter arguments in a coherent manner, you ve shown your foolishness posting silly comments.

Feel free to argue my points one by one. But if you are only capable of trolling, I cant help but associate you with The_Savior - IGNORANT kid.

The only use I've found for them is as a reserve unit of boys for objective claiming or protecting lootas.

Trukks are fairly pointless to me. transports dying to small arms fire coupled with their rubbish carrying capacity and the kareen rule make them a usual none starter in my lists.

You really need to stop, right now, with the snide comments and insults to other posters. If you are incapable of debating politely with the other users then it's best you don't post.

mercer wrote:Unfortunately Trukks suck for reasons mentioned. May got 18" but you cannot assault out, move 12" you can jump out but you can do that with a Battlewagon.

Units inside are too small.

Units able to take them are better in a Battlewagon, which they can take.

Honestly, do I need to go on? Trukks are fail :( Just too weak.

Trukks are also fun, cheap and characterful in speed freak lists.

Then again it depends on your motivations for playing and if you think toy soldiers are "serious business" or not.

I find the best thing is to spam them if you are gonna use them and provide too many targets to stop...

:3

I'm content with my 2 Trukk setup, and I've seen many points on how to compliment them with the wagons.

Remember to play for fun, and not be the guy no one likes because he takes it to seriously.

Thanks everyone.

CT GAMER wrote:Trukks are also fun, cheap and characterful in speed freak lists.

Then again it depends on your motivations for playing and if you think toy soldiers are "serious business" or not.

I find the best thing is to spam them if you are gonna use them and provide too many targets to stop...

So where do trukks belong? - FUn lists, LOL. All of a sudden, people realized this

Davicus wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:Trukks are also fun, cheap and characterful in speed freak lists.

Then again it depends on your motivations for playing and if you think toy soldiers are "serious business" or not.

I find the best thing is to spam them if you are gonna use them and provide too many targets to stop...

So where do trukks belong? - FUn lists, LOL. All of a sudden, people realized this

Tell that to Dash of Pepper

Now enough, Trukks are a transport in a competitive list.

Yes they are fragile, yes they can be taken down with ease, but they get you there... and that's all Orks want is speed.

I don't need to, he can read the thread himself. In any case, I don't recall him using mass trukks. Quote the right source, kid.

This thread makes my head hurt... I hope the people involved in this one up manship realize they are only making themselves look stupid
Including the guy ranting about how everyone but him looks stupid...




There should be a hang head in shame orkicon

This thread seems to have served its purpose.