What do you think is the worst gun in the game considering avaibility and battlefield effectiveness?

Once my termies were shot by about 100+ lasgun shots and only one died. I consider 15 bolters more scary.

The lasgun is certainly a possibility. The grot blasta is not, as gretchin somehow will always kill something big.

In terms of effect, nothing is worse than the grot blaster.

In terms of effeciency (effect over cost), things become more wideopen. Hot shot lasguns pay a criminal premium for AP3 on an S3 gun. The kustom mega blasta for Loota Meks is a terrible downgrade from a dakkagun. IG heavy flamers are not only four times the cost of a standard flamer, but also use up a special weapon slot, not a heavy weapon slot.

illuknisaa wrote:Once my termies were shot by about 100+ lasgun shots and only one died. I consider 15 bolters more scary.

that realy depends, I also hit 6 termies with around 100 shots one time. All of them died.

With imperial guard, it doesn't matter what the power or their rifles is. Numbers do mater.

Yeah, in terms of efficiency, the hot shot lasgun is pretty awful. That or the ripper gun.

I suppose the worst ones would be upgrades on really expensive things that you don't take for the firepower, like the gorgon pintle stubbers or other silly forgeworld things like the land raider ares.

Tau pulse rifle.

Yeah, I said it. Its probably more due to the fact that the firewarrior is the total suck and spends 4 of the 5-6 game turns hiding in a D-fish.

But for the points you pay 10 points for each gun, and they don't do anything all game long.

Stub Gun.

I would say the storm bolter upgrade on IG tanks is pretty useless - since you can take the clearly superior heavy stubber instead, for the same cost (even that isn't always a decent choice)

Perhaps the starcannon? Grossly overpriced compared to the other eldar heavy weapons. I would never, ever even consider taking it on any vehicle. Maybe if I knew I was playing necrons without monoliths . . . even then, no.

Sternguard storm bolters. You pay 5 points a model to get one extra shot when charging and at 12-24", and give up the special ammo, which is the squad's main special ability.

Jayden63 wrote:Tau pulse rifle.

Yeah, I said it. Its probably more due to the fact that the firewarrior is the total suck and spends 4 of the 5-6 game turns hiding in a D-fish.

But for the points you pay 10 points for each gun, and they don't do anything all game long.

i beg to differ, the Carbine is clearly worse as pinning is worthless against most units you would want pinned and Assault1 with a 12" range is simply stupid.

Freebooters gun. 20 pt base HTH nob with no HTH weapons then spend 5 to 20 points for a gun that might be amazing except for the fact you have ork BS of 2.

Oooh 10 freebooters pumping out 20 S6 AP d6-1 shots for a mere 400 points!!!

and your lucky if 5 of them hit

Nope, you're all wrong. The Dark Eldar have the worst gun in the game: the Splinter Rifle. S3 AP5 18" Rapid Fire. You are never in range, it will never inflict damage and you can't assault after it. Atleast the Grot Blaster is Assault.

but then your playing DE.

you can get 23 Bright lances in a 1500 point list


HQ some cheap 105 point HQ

Dark Eldar Warriors x10 2 Dark Lances @10pts each = 100pts

Dark Eldar Warriors x10 2 Dark Lances @10pts each = 100pts

Dark Eldar Warriors x10 2 Dark Lances @10pts each = 100pts

Dark Eldar Warriors x10 2 Dark Lances @10pts each = 100pts

Dark Eldar Warriors x10 2 Dark Lances @10pts each = 100pts

Troops = 600 pts

Heavy Support:

Ravager 3x Dark Lance =105 pts

Ravager 3x Dark Lance =105 pts

Ravager 3x Dark Lance =105 pts

Heavy Support = 315 pts

Elites:

Grotesque x5 Raider Dark Lance = 130pts

Grotesque x5 Raider Dark Lance = 130pts

Grotesque x5 Raider Dark Lance = 130pts

Elites = 390 pts

Urien Rakrath UberGrotesque x3 Raider Darklance = 190pts

1500 points.

DarkHound wrote:Nope, you're all wrong. The Dark Eldar have the worst gun in the game: the Splinter Rifle. S3 AP5 18" Rapid Fire. You are never in range, it will never inflict damage and you can't assault after it. Atleast the Grot Blaster is Assault.

Actually, because it's AP 5, it's better than the lasgun. The only problem is range, which isn't really a problem given that everything gets a raider.

Grey Templar wrote:but then your playing DE, you can get 23 Bright lances in a 1500 point list

And that isn't relevant to this thread.

Ailaros wrote:Actually, because it's AP 5, it's better than the lasgun. The only problem is range, which isn't really a problem given that everything gets a raider.

I'd say an AP over 4 is irrelevant, and while the issue with range can be midigated by a Raider, that only accentuates the lack of Assault. Sure you'll roll up nice and close with your cardboard-box-jet, you'll get out and drop a bunch of S3 shooting, and then sit there and eat return fire. You'll never actually fire the weapon either because you need to assault or you're out of range.

According to my codex Splinter rifles have 24" Range.

Ailaros wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Nope, you're all wrong. The Dark Eldar have the worst gun in the game: the Splinter Rifle. S3 AP5 18" Rapid Fire. You are never in range, it will never inflict damage and you can't assault after it. Atleast the Grot Blaster is Assault.

Actually, because it's AP 5, it's better than the lasgun. The only problem is range, which isn't really a problem given that everything gets a raider.

I have to disagree - the Splinter Rifle is worse than a lasgun. Lasguns can be effected by orders - making them much more dangerous. FRFSRF can be disgusting.

By that reasoning the fact that Splinter rifles are BS4 becomes a factor.

Really, the problem isn't the splinter rifle, but that the rules changed around it. When the book was written rapid fire weapons could shoot once before a charge.

I think stranglewebs are worth honorable mention. . . .
s2 (wounds vs Strength?!) template that triples the cost of the model using it.

Maybe not the worst, but spike rifles are pretty bad, 18" S3 AP- assault 1 and you have to pay to "upgrade" to em.

I'm going with the hellpistol. S3 AP5 weapon available everywhere you can get a S4 AP5 weapon, with the same range, FOR THE SAME PRICE!

I'm no expert at 40k, but why would you want to assault with a DE warrior anyway?

I also think that including the possibility of orders is a little unfair since that's not actually measuring the effectiveness of the gun itself.

I think that the Guardian's shuriken catapult is pretty bad as well. It's better than a single lasgun but still pretty bad.

As an Eldar player the swooping hawks lasblaster is pretty awful considering the points you are spending to get that unit, 21 points for a units with a Str 3 Ap 5 weapon is rough

alspal8me wrote:As an Eldar player the swooping hawks lasblaster is pretty awful considering the points you are spending to get that unit, 21 points for a units with a Str 3 Ap 5 weapon is rough

...that is assault 2 24" range, being fired after the large blast they drop down is.

IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

Tyranid Spinefist

Kurgash wrote:Tyranid Spinefist

Those are pretty funny on rippers though. . . .

DarkHound wrote:I'd say an AP over 4 is irrelevant

Sure, unless you're playing against tyranid, eldar, guard, dark eldar or orks, in which case it's 33% more useful than an Ap - weapon of the same strength.

Polonius wrote:Really, the problem isn't the splinter rifle, but that the rules changed around it. When the book was written rapid fire weapons could shoot once before a charge.

Ah, this makes them make more sense. I really wish I could choose to fire my lasguns as laspistols. Oh well.

daedalus wrote:I'm going with the hellpistol. S3 AP5 weapon available everywhere you can get a S4 AP5 weapon, with the same range, FOR THE SAME PRICE!

Yeah, actually. The new hot-shot laspistols make more sense, being AP3 and all, but if you're stuck with old stormies, this has got to be one of the crappier weapons out there.

DAaddict wrote:Freebooters gun. 20 pt base HTH nob with no HTH weapons then spend 5 to 20 points for a gun that might be amazing except for the fact you have ork BS of 2.

Oooh 10 freebooters pumping out 20 S6 AP d6-1 shots for a mere 400 points!!!

Snazzgun is pretty amazing and when you take small squads they tend to go unnoticed in a objective match and give them a chance kill something.

The vespid gun. One shot from a BS3 model at assault-me-next-turn range, and the AP3 is somehow supposed to make it better?

But I think I remember seeing somebody's stats showing that a spinefist actually makes you worse at shooting...

BearersOfSalvation wrote:Sternguard storm bolters. You pay 5 points a model to get one extra shot when charging and at 12-24", and give up the special ammo, which is the squad's main special ability.

Storm Bolters in general are a decent weapon, but when put on certain units, it's far less effective. I would agree that Storm Bolters are close to useless on Sternguard, but as a weapon in general I think they're great, as far as effective weapons go.

I'll have to agree with Lasgun being the worst gun. But like others have voiced, when playing IG, it's not in the strength of the shot that matters, but the quantity of them.

Kurgash wrote:Tyranid Spinefist

Spinefists are assault, 18" threat range (6" move + 12" shoot), twin-linked (hit 75% of the time instead of 50% of the time for a lasgun shot), and AP5 (meaning they kill 33% more guardsmen too.) They can be shot then charge into assault on same turn.

They're certainly not amazing, but I wouldn't say they're terrible. They fit what tyranid troopers want to do perfectly. (Move up while shooting, shoot then assault.)

I'm gonna toss one out there
Pulse Carbines for Fire Warriors. Replacing the 30" S5 AP5 rapid-fire gun with an 18" S5 AP5 1-shot gun.
Now the stats aren't completely awful, but
10 points for 1 shot at BS3 S5 AP5 only 18" (meaning within the assault range of a jetpack/biker.)

Also, sniper rifle on a guardsman. 10 points for heavy 1, 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound, AP6. It takes 5-6 sniper rifle shots to kill a single regular guardsman. That's an entire game stationary un-killed to only bring down 1 basic trooper.

I don't know about the worst gun, but I know what the best one is! Grot blastas!

I have seen marines, obliterators, terminators, Daemon Princes (yes, plural), you name it dropped by grot blastas. What is more triumphant than a warrior elevated to Daemonhood by the Ruinous Powers being torn apart by the might of a handful of the worst weapons orks have to offer, wielded by the dregs of ork society?!

Grot blastas FTW!!!

Eldar Shuriken catapults are pretty craptastic. 12 inch please assault me range on units that suck in assault.

The lasgun is said to be one of the most reliable guns in the 4th ed codex. Its mag can be recharged and put in fire for emergency recharging if necessary.

Game wise, I believe more of my space marines were killed by lasguns than sluggas...

revackey wrote:The lasgun is said to be one of the most reliable guns in the 4th ed codex. Its mag can be recharged and put in fire for emergency recharging if necessary.

Game wise, I believe more of my space marines were killed by lasguns than sluggas...

But have you been shot by sluggas as often as by lasguns and in the same quantity?

Also, were the lasguns boosted by being on veterans / given special orders (First rank fire! Second rank fire!) ?

Sluggas are a pistol so they don't count in a "worst gun" contest. Pistols are a combat side gear item. S4 AP6 for slugga is better than the Laspistol which is S3 AP- 12" range 1 shot.

18" S4 AP6 Assault 2 basic 'Shoota' is superior to the 12/24" S3 AP- Lasgun.

A group of 20 Conscripts hit more than 20 boys with sluggas... I'm sorry didn't know they didnt count/

I have to give it to the lasgun-class flashlight. Ignoring BS (the thread is worst gun, not worst shooter), the Lasgun is a Range 24" S3 AP- Rapid Fire Weapon up against the shoota which is Range 18" S4 AP6 Assault 2. I think that the shoota is better given the greater strength, AP, and the assault characteristic, so the lasgun is the worst gun.

Were that the case, then the laspistol would actually beat it.

It was just BS + gun, the mekboyz KMB would take the cake. It has about equal chance of killing a marine in cover as it has killing itself. 1/3 hit. 5/6 of hits wound, 1/2 saves. .138 dead marines. 1/6 get hot. 1/6 save. Ends up being .138 dead mek boyz. So freaking stupid its not funny.

Snotzooka, the Mek's devilish weapon.

You're all wrong, the most useless weapon is a Strangleweb. You must pay 10 points for this joke of a weapon, and you lose 1 S3 Ap5 Fleshborer shot in order to use a S2 Ap- template.

S2 Ap-. Need I say more.

People may say "oh but it causes Pinning...", yeah, if it actually manages to wound something, and with a 22% chance of killing a Guardsman, you won't be seeing any Pinned units anytime soon.

Grey Templar wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Tau pulse rifle.

Yeah, I said it. Its probably more due to the fact that the firewarrior is the total suck and spends 4 of the 5-6 game turns hiding in a D-fish.

But for the points you pay 10 points for each gun, and they don't do anything all game long.

i beg to differ, the Carbine is clearly worse as pinning is worthless against most units you would want pinned and Assault1 with a 12" range is simply stupid.

God the carbine is so bad.

I have to interhect now.

firstly, I'm suprised that noones mentioned shotguns [which, IMO are very effective against anything that would hit at the same time or faster then it in combat [SM, 'nids]]

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Seconding the strangleweb

or if that fails not a fan of the EarthShaker gun in normal sized games

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

dont give him plasma pistol simple

Yes, plasma burns, but 3 plasma guns taking down a trygon in a single volley more than attests to its usefulness.

And the earthshaker cannon can fire directly. It's an LRBT cannon with +1S and the ability to fire indirectly. Clearly not the worst weapon in the game.

oh i thougth only melta was only competive special weapon? /sarc
why should you plasma its ranged and can hurt tanks so by your locic its bad is it Ailaros?

Tryannofex's Fleshborer hive range 12 str 4 ap 5 heavy 20.
It is bs3. The base cost for him with this weapon is 260 points.

Pulse Pistol. Maybe 2 models in a list can have it. Need to upgrade the ejector seat on a crisis suit to get it. And I think Etherals can take them, which as bad as they are just ups the worst of this.

Almost Best and worst gun belong to the Tau.

Edit: I think the best is the Maw on the soul grinder due to it's diversity.

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing,

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

Why are you saying this in response to Solon? He didn't put a wound roll in his calculations. The first roll is the hit roll (has to be a 1 to get hot), the second is the armor save (make it on a 3+, so have to get a 1 or 2 to fail).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rurouni Benshin wrote:Storm Bolters in general are a decent weapon, but when put on certain units, it's far less effective. I would agree that Storm Bolters are close to useless on Sternguard, but as a weapon in general I think they're great, as far as effective weapons go.

I'm not saying that they have close to zero use, I'm saying that Sternguard Stormbolters have negative use - you spend points to remove your ability to use the unit's primary special rule. Some of the other guns listed may be weak, but none of them involve paying points to remove something as good as the ability to pick between AP3, 36" range, wound on 2+, and ignore cover shots!

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

what he is saying is that firstly you need to roll a 1 to take a Gets Hot wound and THEN you need to fail you 3+ armor.

a Marine has a 5% chance of death everytime he fires a Gets Hot weapon.

if he has FNP it goes down the 2.5%

Ah..his 1, 2 or 1, 1 read to me like a fumble, then a wound roll.

My reading comprehension fail.

Apologies.

Grey Templar wrote:

porkuslime wrote:

Captain Solon wrote:I have to interhect now.

crazyK wrote:IMO, any gun with "get's hot" isn't worth it unless it's on a vehicle.

As for this comment, I beg to differ.

Firstly, You need to get a 1,2 or a 1,1 to do a wound on a tactical marine, so thats a 1/18 chance of it failing, and even with a guardsman, it's only a 1,1 1,2 1,3 1,4 or a 1/9 chance that you'll die. and, I see it as: I'm risking a 26 points on a single tactical marine with a plasma gun, and that gun has a 67% chance of killing a terminator. or a 18/27 chance.

of course, it's worth naught on against anything where the armour value doesn't justify it's use [Sv5+, for example.]

Gets Hot weapons AUTOWOUND the model (or unit) firing them.. they can take an armor save, but the wound is automatic. GOD, I would love it if there was a wound roll in there.. but.. nope.

I have lost track of how many times a Chaplain has offed himself with his shiney plasma pistol..

what he is saying is that firstly you need to roll a 1 to take a Gets Hot wound and THEN you need to fail you 3+ armor.

a Marine has a 5% chance of death everytime he fires a Gets Hot weapon.

if he has FNP it goes down the 2.5%

If a marine fails to hit it has a 50/50 chance to wound himself that's just crazy!! If you put 1000 marines with plasmas against a grot (armed with the mighty grot blasta) the marines only manage to themselves.

50%!!

If a marine fails to hit it has a 50/50 chance to wound himself that's just crazy!! If you put 1000 marines with plasmas against a grot (armed with the mighty grot blasta) the marines only manage to themselves.

50%!!

Your statistics are not really objective. I mean, you could go on and say "If a marine fails to hit and doesn't roll a 2 then he has a 100% chance of wounding himself!!!"

When you look at the complete act of firing the weapon, including shots that hit, that gives you a much more objective statistic in my opinion. It was already stated above, the total chance of a Marine killing himself with his plasma gun every shot is 5,56%, this already includes his armor save. Comparing this with the potential chance of killing a 40-points-plus Terminator or equally heavy armored target (2+/5++) - 37,04% - I would argue that it is worth the risk to fire a plasma gun.

Shuriken Catapult.

Not because it's terrible, but because of where it is and what it's supposed to accomplish. As a main troop weapon, it's completely ineffective.

It gets to fire exactly zero times. Anything that wants to assault and isn't moving at footspeed (which is everything that wants to assault) goes from being outside its range to in assault in one of their own turns.

Even pretending they do get to shoot it, there's going to be enough left of whatever it shot at to erase those Guardians that shot it from history on the next turn.

Witzkatz wrote:I mean, you could go on and say "If a marine fails to hit and doesn't roll a 2 then he has a 100% chance of wounding himself!!!"

QFT

Witzkatz wrote:

If a marine fails to hit it has a 50/50 chance to wound himself that's just crazy!! If you put 1000 marines with plasmas against a grot (armed with the mighty grot blasta) the marines only manage to themselves.

50%!!

Your statistics are not really objective. I mean, you could go on and say "If a marine fails to hit and doesn't roll a 2 then he has a 100% chance of wounding himself!!!"

When you look at the complete act of firing the weapon, including shots that hit, that gives you a much more objective statistic in my opinion. It was already stated above, the total chance of a Marine killing himself with his plasma gun every shot is 5,56%, this already includes his armor save. Comparing this with the potential chance of killing a 40-points-plus Terminator or equally heavy armored target (2+/5++) - 37,04% - I would argue that it is worth the risk to fire a plasma gun.

I was being sarcastic.

Oh. However, at least two people didn't get that sarcasm, so it must've been very deepyl hidden sarcasm.

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, in terms of efficiency, the hot shot lasgun is pretty awful. That or the ripper gun.

I suppose the worst ones would be upgrades on really expensive things that you don't take for the firepower, like the gorgon pintle stubbers or other silly forgeworld things like the land raider ares.

I have to disagree on the Ares, it has served me very well in my Blood Angels army, Av 14 all around + PotMS to always shoot it is really good, it took down an entire 7 man TAGK squad including Grand Master on turn 1, straight away redeeming its points, and as far as I can remember has only ever been immobilised, never destroyed.

Worst weapon, Laspistol.

I agree with Pulse Pistol. You can only take one in an army, it costs 15 points(because of the ejection seat) and your Commander is now out of his battlesuit with no armor save. It's stats are the same as the Pulse Rifle, except it only has a 12 inch range and has the pistol rule. Worst. Gun. Eva.

Oh, if this can be counted as a weapon, I think I might've found the worst weapon in 40k.

Deathstrike Missile
160 points for one-use-only.
Randomly determined which one time it can fire.

On turn 1, it can only fire on 6+.
It gets 1 easier for every turn later and 1 harder for each weapon destroyed result or if it's been stunned/shaken last turn.

Therefore not unlikely that it's destroyed before it ever fires (for 160 points.)
Even if it fires, it has a good chance of scattering and not earning 160 points back.

What codex is that from?

Imperial guard
It's billed as the most powerful weapon around. Yet since you only fire it once instead of firing another ordinance gun 5 times, it's disregarded completely.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:What codex is that from?

imperial guard


i'd like to see a battery of them in apocalypse though

and worst gun which has already been mentioned the strangle web for termagaunts, it there even a unit with str2 apart from possibly grots?

eg0u80bf wrote:
and worst gun which has already been mentioned the strangle web for termagaunts, it there even a unit with str2 apart from possibly grots?

It's for shooting Orks.

DarknessEternal wrote:

eg0u80bf wrote:
and worst gun which has already been mentioned the strangle web for termagaunts, it there even a unit with str2 apart from possibly grots?

It's for shooting Orks.

Because a s2 template is so much better than three gants when you are in charge range? Because it is so likely to pin orks?

I realize they have some units with T>S, but. . .really?

Hey, if your enemy is in the habit of hiding 10 hobbits in a forest with 3+ cover saves, the 10 extra points to KILL THE HOBBITS could pay off. They're only T2 and no cover saves to template.

TheBloodGod wrote:They're only T2 and no cover saves to template.

If you are refering to the strangleweb, it wounds vs Strength, not Toughness.

TheBloodGod wrote:Hey, if your enemy is in the habit of hiding 10 hobbits in a forest with 3+ cover saves, the 10 extra points to KILL THE HOBBITS could pay off. They're only T2 and no cover saves to template.

isn't that a bit too situational A) facing guard, B) they have hobbits, C) they are placed near you and D) they let you get to them

also rember it's still 4+ to wound

Grey Templar wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:Tau pulse rifle.

Yeah, I said it. Its probably more due to the fact that the firewarrior is the total suck and spends 4 of the 5-6 game turns hiding in a D-fish.

But for the points you pay 10 points for each gun, and they don't do anything all game long.

i beg to differ, the Carbine is clearly worse as pinning is worthless against most units you would want pinned and Assault1 with a 12" range is simply stupid.

range is 18". also, you think a s5 30" rapid fire gun is worse than a s4 24" rapid fire gun where the model is 5pts more?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
boltguns definetely aren't bad, but you definetely think that lasguns and grot blastas are better then pulse rifles? really?

TheBloodGod wrote:Oh, if this can be counted as a weapon, I think I might've found the worst weapon in 40k.

Deathstrike Missile
160 points for one-use-only.
Randomly determined which one time it can fire.

On turn 1, it can only fire on 6+.
It gets 1 easier for every turn later and 1 harder for each weapon destroyed result or if it's been stunned/shaken last turn.

Therefore not unlikely that it's destroyed before it ever fires (for 160 points.)
Even if it fires, it has a good chance of scattering and not earning 160 points back.

You do know how big an area it effects, right? Its a d3+3 RADIUS blast weapon that is S10 AP1. Ordinance barrage. IIRC it is S10 for everything hit. Anything that powerful even if it fires only once, can't be the worst weapon in the game. An 8-12 inch blast zone cares very little about scatter.

You are correct Notabot, it always hits vehicles at S10. It has 2D6 pick the highest penetration and wounds virtually everything on a 2+. It ignores cover and armor, thanks to its rules and AP1. It also pins with a -1Ld modifier. No, that is not the worst weapon in the game. Unreliable, sure, but utterly lethal.

I just found it funny that a gun so powerful it should be an apoc item (plus its quirky rules belong in apoc) found its way into a worst weapons threat.

It is an Apoc item. Deathstrikes have been around long before this incarnation of the codex, or so I'm told.

+1 for Deathstrike Missiles not being the worst weapons. It's great against opponents that tend to keep their stuff in a big blob and, of course, at high points games.

I once played a game with my IG against Dashofpepper's Dark Eldar at...2000 or 2500 points. After the game (I think he won) we talked about what would've happened if I had had a Deathstrike missile and were able to fire it...

I would've probably been able to get the whole army under the blast with some luck. Every vehicle would've been auto-penetrated and, because of AP1 and open-topped would've been destroyed with a 67% chance. Boom, there goes half to three-thirds of the army! (Lotsa passengers would get killed by Explodes! results)

A weapon that can render you enemy's complete army useless with one shot? Hell yeah, if I can spare the points let's do it. Additionally it's a nice fire magnet that keeps fire away from Chimeras and stuff.

For me... It would be the shotgun. It's always been pretty underwhelming. Or maybe the Grot Blasta.

TheBloodGod wrote:Deathstrike Missile
160 points for one-use-only.
Randomly determined which one time it can fire.

... and fires a S10 AP1 Ordnance weapon that doesn't use center hole against vehicles (always full strength) and ignores cover. Oh, did I mention that the blast weapon has up to a 6" RADIUS. That means a pie plate 12" across.

Are they futzy? Yeah, but what other weapon costs 160 points and can kill THOUSANDS of points of your opponent with a single attack?

Strangleweb fo sho, lasguns can at least be fired en masse and there's first rank fire second rank fire.

stangleweb, a sniper rifle of any discription or the "rundown, secound hand, low tech, dust caked piece of junk that might kill something if the owner remembered which way to point it". straight out of the ork codex for grot blaster.

The pulse pistol is clearly the worst, as its been said, you can only take it for one unit, and it really has no use since the only time it will be used is after a battlesuit is destoryed. plus it cost 15 points for the upgrade to a unit that already costs atleast 35, bring the total up to 50 points for a S5 AP5 pistol with a 12" range.

I have never liked my Guardian Shuriken catapults. Range 12" on a model with T3 save 5+? yeah like that will EVER get into range to fire.

Also not a fan of guardian shuripults.
12" range S:4 AP:5 Assault2 (BS3)

It's not a BAD statline, but it sucks because the user is so bloody frail, assault-phobic and is forced to drag around a heavy weapon (extra points sunk into your soon-to-be-dead unit)... Max effective range of 18" and whoever you shoot can charge in response.

The unit is pretty much assault bait. Or camp on your home objective because guardians can give you 20 wounds for 165points (cheapest grav platform).

DarknessEternal wrote:Shuriken Catapult.

Not because it's terrible, but because of where it is and what it's supposed to accomplish. As a main troop weapon, it's completely ineffective.

It gets to fire exactly zero times. Anything that wants to assault and isn't moving at footspeed (which is everything that wants to assault) goes from being outside its range to in assault in one of their own turns.

Even pretending they do get to shoot it, there's going to be enough left of whatever it shot at to erase those Guardians that shot it from history on the next turn.

+1

I agree completely.

Got to give a nod to:

Pulse Carbine
Strangleweb

Those are very hideous as well, but at least they are OPTIONS. Eldar are stuck with their junk, I remember when Shuriken Catapults were BETTER than bolters for AP, way back in the hardback Rogue Trader days they were -2 Armor Save and Bolters I think were -1. I guess they shoot what, Love? now.

Augustus wrote: Eldar are stuck with their junk

Quoted for hilarity.

Not that I really disagree with the Eldar+weapon being bad, as posted the gun itself isn't the problem, really.

If we're talking eldar then i would vote for the Triskele. Sure its Str3 AP2 Assualt3 as well as a power weapon but I've never used it. Don't get me wrong I've tried it out on my banshee exarch plenty of times its just i never find myself close enough to throw it and still charge. 100% I've gone "you know what I'm not going to reach them lets run instead".

It might work if you could take more then one but you can't.

kirsanth wrote:Not that I really disagree with the Eldar+weapon being bad, as posted the gun itself isn't the problem, really.

Exactly. shuricats are nothing more or less than shotguns, which themselves are not the worst weapon in the game. You lose the one shot at 24" (which how much are you really missing anyways?) in order to gain the ability to assault after you shoot. Counting the assaulting, this means that they put down twice as many attacks as a lasgun does at the same range.

Not to say that shuricats are awesomesause, but they're not the worst gun by themselves, and I daresay that they're not even worse than a lasgun.

Wait, aren't shuricats Ap5?

the shoota.

illuknisaa wrote:

DAaddict wrote:Freebooters gun. 20 pt base HTH nob with no HTH weapons then spend 5 to 20 points for a gun that might be amazing except for the fact you have ork BS of 2.

Oooh 10 freebooters pumping out 20 S6 AP d6-1 shots for a mere 400 points!!!

Snazzgun is pretty amazing and when you take small squads they tend to go unnoticed in a objective match and give them a chance kill something.

I too think the snazzgun is actually a pretty good gun. Never take the Blasta upgrade, thats what makes them stupid. Whenever I tested them out in games and took that upgrade, Id kill more gits then enemies. But taking squads of 10 with shootier and more dakka, well that can bring the pain fairly nice. And again, most times people ignore them because of what they are, FlashGits.

STR6 is pretty much 2+ to wound and if you roll a good AP then your just creaming whatever squad your shooting at. I still think they should take away blasta, and make the gitfinder give them BS3 for 5pts each. That and take them out of the heavy section and into the elites. That would make the Flashgits a seriously badass unit.

Augustus wrote:
Those are very hideous as well, but at least they are OPTIONS. Eldar are stuck with their junk, I remember when Shuriken Catapults were BETTER than bolters for AP, way back in the hardback Rogue Trader days they were -2 Armor Save and Bolters I think were -1. I guess they shoot what, Love? now.

Not only that, but in Rogue Trader, a single Shuriken Catapult could wipe out an entire squad (Follow Fire was stupid). In 2nd, it was a Bolter with better range modifiers, more shots, and a better save mod.

How in hell did 3rd edition even happen to the Shuriken Catapult? It's just shameful.

As for the guy who said Shoota. You're just wrong.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Augustus wrote:
Those are very hideous as well, but at least they are OPTIONS. Eldar are stuck with their junk, I remember when Shuriken Catapults were BETTER than bolters for AP, way back in the hardback Rogue Trader days they were -2 Armor Save and Bolters I think were -1. I guess they shoot what, Love? now.

Not only that, but in Rogue Trader, a single Shuriken Catapult could wipe out an entire squad (Follow Fire was stupid). In 2nd, it was a Bolter with better range modifiers, more shots, and a better save mod.

How in hell did 3rd edition even happen to the Shuriken Catapult? It's just shameful.

As for the guy who said Shoota. You're just wrong.

Somethings have got worse ... but thankfully somethings have got better could you imagine these guys in your army?

Tactical dreadnought armour has come along way.

Augustus wrote:
Those are very hideous as well, but at least they are OPTIONS. Eldar are stuck with their junk, I remember when Shuriken Catapults were BETTER than bolters for AP, way back in the hardback Rogue Trader days they were -2 Armor Save and Bolters I think were -1. I guess they shoot what, Love? now.

So true, many things mentioned in this threads are poor weapons, but they are poor in the face of "why the HELL do I want an upgrade that makes my unit worse than it was?"

Guardians suck on a full time basis. The gun is a total mismatch for its user, and that makes it a failure above and beyond the norm... Not to detract from the other shocking guns in 40k, they're horrible too

They are too fragile & shortranged to be a gunline, and they don't have nearly enough punch to be worth carting around in a transport.

Deleted, couldn't find the delete post button.

From personal experience as a Space Marine/Blood Angels player, I have to answer the Lascannon. Sure, with BS4, S9 and AP2 at 48" range, it should be an awesome gun, even with the heavy 1 profile, but it isn't.

You see, while we call it a Lascannon, this is not its True Name. No, the True Name of the Lascannon is The Gun Of Many Ones.

Xeroen wrote:From personal experience as a Space Marine/Blood Angels player, I have to answer the Lascannon. Sure, with BS4, S9 and AP2 at 48" range, it should be an awesome gun, even with the heavy 1 profile, but it isn't.

You see, while we call it a Lascannon, this is not its True Name. No, the True Name of the Lascannon is The Gun Of Many Ones.

Sounds like my SoB melta guns. Even with my list that has more melta and flamers than bolt guns, those meltas roll a bunch of 1s. 1 to hit, or 1 to wound, at least 1 one when trying against vehicles (so I get a glance instead of a pen, or fail altogether) Units that have 2 melta guns means I just miss on one of them, then roll a 1 to wound/pen with the one that hit. Well, that is the reason why I spam them...

You're right. Even the useless deathstrike missile might be better than random guardians on foot with shurikens... 12" range for space-elves that are bad in combat?

8 points for 12" BS3, S3 T3 5+ save.

Even a mediocre termagaunt forms a better gunline. Give them devourers.

18" S4 Assault 3? AND morale check on enemy?

Devourers can actually shoot something with guns while not standing in punch-my-suicidal-elf-face-in range.

Xeroen wrote:From personal experience as a Space Marine/Blood Angels player, I have to answer the Lascannon. Sure, with BS4, S9 and AP2 at 48" range, it should be an awesome gun, even with the heavy 1 profile, but it isn't.

You see, while we call it a Lascannon, this is not its True Name. No, the True Name of the Lascannon is The Gun Of Many Ones.

Yeah, I agree. The sad thing is, there's really nothing you do to make it any better.

Making it more than heavy 1 makes no sense. It's only one shot.

Making it blast makes no sense.

Making it rending is dumb.


It's hopeless,really.

Lascannons don't need changing the slightest. My dice do.

I roll to hit, and usually get a 1. By some fluke I get a 3 or higher and my roll to wound roll will be a 1, or in the case of vehicle penetration, not high enough to even glance, the exception being av 10. In that rare circumstance, the damage result roll will end up Shaken.

Sisters repentia have the worst gun in the game. Their gun is so bad...that it simply doesn't exist.

Imagine:
"The US is driving in with tanks. To compensate, we are sending in our women without armor or guns to stop them."

The result is pretty much reflected in 40k too.

Scrazza wrote:

illuknisaa wrote:Once my termies were shot by about 100+ lasgun shots and only one died. I consider 15 bolters more scary.

that realy depends, I also hit 6 termies with around 100 shots one time. All of them died.

With imperial guard, it doesn't matter what the power or their rifles is. Numbers do mater.

Exactly. This game is about luck. My 3-man devestator got shot at by a Leman Russ Punisher. Nobody died.

Anyway, aren't laspistols even worse then lasguns?

^
they have the same strength and AP, they just have shorter range, like all pistols have.

Tomb Spyder's Particle Projector.

BS 2. Range 12". Reduces CC attacks by 1

Worst gun in practice: Guardian Shuriken Catapult.
Crap range on a model which needs range to survive. I'd take Pulse Rifles or Lasguns any day on my Guardians.

Worst gun option: Strangleweb.
Suffers about the same problems as Guardians. Cost twice as much as their performance merit. It's actual concept and stat line isn't that bad considering the huge number of hits you can get at no BS rolls, but it's as expensive as a melta-weapon.

I have to say it's pretty even with lasgun and shuriken catapult.

I would still say that lasgun is the worst because catapult is str 4 ap 5 assault 2 weapon and if I could I would arm my csm with catapults than with bolters.

Worst gun for space marines I would say is the:

Heavy Bolter.

Not as devastating as an assault cannon. Not as high strength as a plasma gun. Useless against vehicles.
And when you can take a missile launcher for free it's simply defunct.

Only good thing about a heavy bolter is how it looks.

Corennus wrote:Worst gun for space marines I would say is the:

Heavy Bolter.

Not as devastating as an assault cannon. Not as high strength as a plasma gun. Useless against vehicles.
And when you can take a missile launcher for free it's simply defunct.

Only good thing about a heavy bolter is how it looks.

They aren't bad when they are free. Like when they are on land raiders, land speeder typhoons, HB landspeeders (6 shots for 6 points isn't terrible), and bare bones razorbacks.

notabot187 wrote:

Corennus wrote:Worst gun for space marines I would say is the:

Heavy Bolter.

Not as devastating as an assault cannon. Not as high strength as a plasma gun. Useless against vehicles.
And when you can take a missile launcher for free it's simply defunct.

Only good thing about a heavy bolter is how it looks.

They aren't bad when they are free. Like when they are on land raiders, land speeder typhoons, HB landspeeders (6 shots for 6 points isn't terrible), and bare bones razorbacks.

Not to mention it depends on what your playing against. I played my brother once, where he had 4 HB in a heavy support squad, and they just MURDERED my Orks. Seriously that was some serious ouch. But against a MEQ or where the rockets are a free upgrade, yea Id pick the rocket launcher

Worse gun that I've faced or used? Las-pistol. hands down.

It would be more horrible if there weren't so many, and if it costed something!

the kroot gun on the krootox is pretty awful, 48" S7 AP4 - like an autocannon, except that it is rapid fire and is mounted on an assault unit
so either sit in the corner firing one shot a turn and waste the whole reason you took them in the first place
or: charge right up into CC range and fire two shots but waste your assault phase

MinionOfDaCube wrote: the kroot gun on the krootox is pretty awful, 48" S7 AP4 - like an autocannon, except that it is rapid fire and is mounted on an assault unit
so either sit in the corner firing one shot a turn and waste the whole reason you took them in the first place

Kroot are not an assault unit. So that pretty much throws off your whole summation.

Tau don't have cheap, long-ranged, str 7 guns out of the Troops slot otherwise. Those things are pretty vital to any anti-mech strategy.

That they don't fall apart completely when they get assaulted doesn't mean they are an assault unit.

mulkers wrote:Tomb Spyder's Particle Projector.

BS 2. Range 12". Reduces CC attacks by 1

But the PP is a str 5 AP 3 gun, one of very very very few AP 3 guns that aren't ordnance in the entire necron army. Sucks that it's held by a unit with such a horrible BS.

I hafta say that tau pulse carbines aren't really the bestest gun there is either.