Yeah a tactical squad use to cost 35$ now it costs 37.50$

Wow I'm glad i hit my max already.... Anyway has anyone else noticed that the Black Reach which once cost 50$ now it costs 90$ D:

What is going on?

A Valkyrie now costs 62$.

OK seriously is this because of the economy? Because i was planning on doing a purchase sorta like this

2x death company 66$

1x devastator squad 33$

I was wanting to buy a Valkyrie for 57$ so there goes my imperial guard army.

At least the Battle Force is now only 90$. Should I use Amazon from now on? Have you guys also gotten a little mad at GW lately?

Because all my gaming buddies have, ever since the Stores now close at 7:00 PM, i have been collecting scenery so that me and my buddies can play in my basement. Which has air condition and also has enough room to basically make fun of the battle bunker, and I am also working on 3 armies. But ever since GW raised its prices, that ruined my plan completely, so i have given up on my store.

As it seems that i cannot go there as I usually arrive at GW at 6:00.

Seriously my GW guy has a 1 hour and a 30 minute lunch breaks between 3:30 and 5:00. D:. My respect for dave has fallen dramatically.....

I'm sorry but Thats why i stopped coming to GW. Also has anyone else pulled off what I have?

Sorry about the crappy sentence structure, Have to type this in a hurry....

o.O

What's the question?

Have you noticed the price changes?

Yes I have.

What about it?

Do you feel angry about it? Has this made you leave your LGS? Has this done anything to affect your hobby? Has this made you upset? Have you stopped buying GW products? etc.
Explain all of them. O.o Thats basically what i am asking.

Uhh, I can tell you that it's changing what kind of armies I am going to build. Does it make me angry? Not quite. More like disappointed that we'll see 3+% price hikes every year is beyond the economical model. They raise their prices faster than just about any manufacturer I can think of.

Now that squads are almost 40 bucks and a vehicle is around that as well, one marine tac squad in a rhino now costs you close to $90. That means most armies can't even get a legal army for less than $100 - and getting to a decent 1500-1850 list is almost cost prohibitive for many casual or fiscally constrained hobbyists.

I simply cannot afford to build another mech army, nor can I afford tons of IG squads or similar horde armies for the same reason. The point to dollar ratio has drastically changed. My next army is a 30-35 man jump pack pre-heresy World Eaters army using Death Company rules. Why? Because they cost 37 bucks per box of 5 and I can get 1850 with 6 of them and a few heroes.

GW changing prices is not, and should not be held against your LGS. When GW changes retail pricing, they also change the price at which your LGS buys product to sell to you/their customers. I own a game store and I'm furious about it because it actively hurts my customers. They get frustrated and my goal is for them to be happy. They haven't abandoned my store by any stretch, but it isn't fun to watch a player's reaction to finding out that the Land Raider they want is going to set them back $60+

I try to look out for my customers as much as possible to I constantly have GW stuff on sale. In order to not get in trouble I'm always changing exactly what is on sale, but if my customers exercise some patience when they're looking for models, they can eventually get their stuff from me for 20% off of retail. It helps me move more stuff in general and keeps my customers happy. I also tend to give away a ton of product at tournaments (to the point where, if the only thing I take in that day is tournament entries, I break even).

I love to have my customers in my store and buying things, and I strive to make it as easy for them as I can. GW raising prices shouldn't cause you to reflect poorly on your LGS to the point where you leave the shop/community behind. It isn't your LGS's fault that GW product is expensive.

Not having updated codices has caused more anger and frustration over the price change.

Caffran9 wrote:GW changing prices is not, and should not be held against your LGS. When GW changes retail pricing, they also change the price at which your LGS buys product to sell to you/their customers. I own a game store and I'm furious about it because it actively hurts my customers. They get frustrated and my goal is for them to be happy. They haven't abandoned my store by any stretch, but it isn't fun to watch a player's reaction to finding out that the Land Raider they want is going to set them back $60+

I try to look out for my customers as much as possible to I constantly have GW stuff on sale. In order to not get in trouble I'm always changing exactly what is on sale, but if my customers exercise some patience when they're looking for models, they can eventually get their stuff from me for 20% off of retail. It helps me move more stuff in general and keeps my customers happy. I also tend to give away a ton of product at tournaments (to the point where, if the only thing I take in that day is tournament entries, I break even).

I love to have my customers in my store and buying things, and I strive to make it as easy for them as I can. GW raising prices shouldn't cause you to reflect poorly on your LGS to the point where you leave the shop/community behind. It isn't your LGS's fault that GW product is expensive.

Absolutely right. 99%. Except where you said it's expensive. It was expensive 4 years ago. Now it's vastly overpriced and it's debatable, but I'd say cost prohibitive for lots of people.

GW price increases have nothing to do with the economy or inflation. Surges in prices took place during the boom period of the late 90s and onwards.

When I started as a kid Rhinos were 3 to a box for £10.

Caffran9 wrote:GW changing prices is not, and should not be held against your LGS.

Yup, because my FLGS has a $2-$7 (approx, don't know the current currency exchange from SEK to USD) sales-cut on all their GW-stuff.

Add to that that I am a regular and voíla, I have never really been bothered by this. Except that the unit size in every box seem to shrink with every edition...

The rising prices dont make me LEAVE my LGS, I end up there more often lol. Buying directly from the games workshop website is like taking 5-10 dollars, and flushing it down the toilet every single purchase. Ebay is also a good source of reduced price minis. From a reputable seller, a squad of minis without a box will often sell for 10.00 - 20.00 under retail, often much less if you buy multiples or armies.

The thing that DOES drive me a little insane is how with every new version of a squad they slowly reduce the number of models per box but keep the price the same (which is an insanely clever way of raising the prices. People hardly notice if you take out 1-2 marines every couple of years, but consumers immediately lock onto a price hike). I remember back in '95 or so you could get a box of 10 (though at the time really boring looking) tactical marines for around 35 bucks. Now the price is roughly the same for 5 moderately more interesting looking minis. Give it another 15 years and you will be paying the same $37.50 but it will be a picture of a single lonely marine on the cover

What really makes you faceplam is trying to make a 20 strong Ork Loota squad at almost 40.00 a box of 5. I usually pick up a new squad every 6-8 weeks, the days of grabbing 2 battleforces to start an army are gone for me :p Im expecting to pay approx 50-60.00 for my full Kommando and boss Snikrot squad by sale and bid hunting. Still not fun but way better then the $110.00 or so it would take to get 2 boxes of Kommandos, an extra flamer blister and a Snikrot directly from GW

well this is my stores times
12AM-7PM
I get off school at 3:50
I do one hour of school work
4:50.
30 minutes to get there.
5:20 so i have only 1:40 minutes there.
Its not worth going to if it closes at seven for me. As it was once 8:00 but with only one guy at the store It is really annoying.

Asherian Command wrote:well this is my stores times
12AM-7PM
I get off school at 3:50
I do one hour of school work
4:50.
30 minutes to get there.
5:20 so i have only 1:40 minutes there.
Its not worth going to if it closes at seven for me. As it was once 8:00 but with only one guy at the store It is really annoying.

Feel for you, had the same trouble myself when I was younger. Luckily I now live about five mins from the store, so I can spend alot of time there.

Its traffic for me. I live right next to the largest car dealership in Illinois. And not only that but 176 and all the routes in my area are under heavy construction.
But i do have a ton of secereny. My next big purchase is going to be the fortress of redemption.

40k is pretty much dead to me. I had a hankering to build a Guard Army and after pricing it up... twas damn near $1000. Just building and painting the old stock now...

And playing lots of Warmachine. $1000 goes a long way in that game, and I also find that that system lends itself better to spending in installments.

GW for constantly raising their prices. Then when something cheap finally appears, they straight away just raise the price again!
Grrr.

you should probably leave keezus

Here in about a month or two I will embark on a series of articles "Tau on $50 a month" in which I will spend $350 over six months to build a 1500 point Tau army (based on similar article series in White Dwarf.) I plan to pay full retail for everything at my FLGS just to show how it is done. As my army increases in size, I will play a couple of games a month with it and feature battle reports as well.

My Eldar army that I a working on has been built from a combination of old stuff I had leftover, E-bay deals, trades, and two boxes of Dire Avengers bought at full retail from my FLGS.

I accept GW's price hikes as the cost of playing their games. Some things shock me: the cost of a single Swooping Hawk on their website is $15, a box of 6 is just a little more than double that. But overall I realize they are in the business of making money. They are responsible to their stockholders first, and as long as I line up to buy with my battlecry of "Baaa-aa-aa-aa!" it will continue.

I don't buy from GW directly. Inline normally buy from ostores which sell them much cheaper and I live in Australia so we don't have much of a economy issue here.


So at the moment I don't have a problem with GW.

See, what I would do if I were making a wargame, is I would make the main rule book in a binder, and then have all rule changes be in downloadable form, so when I revise one section, I could just put it out on the internet, people could take the old section out, put the new section in, and viola, updated rules!

It would stop people from having to buy new books every edition, as the "editions" would just be rule edits. Save my customers a few bucks, which they would (hopefully) spend on models.

Plenty of game companies did just that.

Notice the tense there?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Plenty of game companies did just that.

Notice the tense there?

Yes, I do. However, just because people no longer do something doesn't mean it isn't profitable, nor does it mean it's a bad Idea. It just means people don't know how to do it the right way.

Yes, it means those people are out of business.

Really, I think GW and their Millions of dollars in product research plus decades in this industry kinda have an advantage over you.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Yes, it means those people are out of business.

Really, I think GW and their Millions of dollars in product research plus decades in this industry kinda have an advantage over you.

So the people who coated Eggs in fermeldahide (?) so they would stay "fresh" longer, even though they were rotten on the inside, also had an advantage over me, hmmm? They had a million dollars in product research and decades in their industry....

Rather than trying to purchase an army here and there....use what you have to earn you more. Play in tournaments at your FLGS. Hone your skills so that you can place and take prizes. Use those prizes to build your next army. If you're not good enough to win with one army, its probably safe to say that you're not ready for your next army yet.

I got the bulk of my first army (Tau) from e-bay, and while I spent a couple hundred bucks at my FLGS, most of the additions came from store credit. I bought two AoBR boxes, traded the marines for two others to found an Ork army - and spent a couple hundred dollars over a year or so building it up, but most of it came from tournament prizes. I have 3,000+ points of Dark Eldar - cost me $100 (tournament entry fees). Then I moved to Necrons (continually moving DOWN the competitive slope, trying to play more and more difficult armies) and have 4000 points of Necrons now - mostly acquired from trading out extra stuff of mine, with some supplemental purchases.

Now I'm collecting Space Marines. Thus far I've got 7 razorbacks, a vindicator, 5 land speeders, a land raider, 2 rhinos, 1x predator, 2x baal predators, 20 assault marines, two dreadnoughts, a Captain, Lemartes, a drop pod......all acquired in the last couple of weeks, and the only money I've spent is for shipping - sending people the stuff I don't use / won / etc in exchange for things I might be interested in.

That's my advice: Hone your skills with what you have. Excel at it. Use Vassal (www.vassal40k.info) to test different army lists. You can play people from around the world. Call me a braggart if you like, but you can look me up if you want a serious challenge. I can direct you to 10 other people on Vassal who can curb-stomp most people on any give day. When you've found the balance that meets your play style and can answer whatever people bring to the table....then shell out some money to enter your local tournaments and dominate. $5 entry fee to get yourself a drop pod. $10 entry fee for a battleforce box. 'Ard Boyz is free - last year I went to two preliminaries rounds, took first in both and got $180 in store credit, and just passed my other ticket down to someone else.

Go go go Vassal!

I think I saw a similar complaint about GW pricing ten years ago.

Battleforces are $150 here.

Yes, the exchange rate is .94AU to 1US and it's that much more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dashofpepper wrote:Rather than trying to purchase an army here and there....use what you have to earn you more. Play in tournaments at your FLGS. Hone your skills so that you can place and take prizes. Use those prizes to build your next army. If you're not good enough to win with one army, its probably safe to say that you're not ready for your next army yet.

I got the bulk of my first army (Tau) from e-bay, and while I spent a couple hundred bucks at my FLGS, most of the additions came from store credit. I bought two AoBR boxes, traded the marines for two others to found an Ork army - and spent a couple hundred dollars over a year or so building it up, but most of it came from tournament prizes. I have 3,000+ points of Dark Eldar - cost me $100 (tournament entry fees). Then I moved to Necrons (continually moving DOWN the competitive slope, trying to play more and more difficult armies) and have 4000 points of Necrons now - mostly acquired from trading out extra stuff of mine, with some supplemental purchases.

Now I'm collecting Space Marines. Thus far I've got 7 razorbacks, a vindicator, 5 land speeders, a land raider, 2 rhinos, 1x predator, 2x baal predators, 20 assault marines, two dreadnoughts, a Captain, Lemartes, a drop pod......all acquired in the last couple of weeks, and the only money I've spent is for shipping - sending people the stuff I don't use / won / etc in exchange for things I might be interested in.

That's my advice: Hone your skills with what you have. Excel at it. Use Vassal (www.vassal40k.info) to test different army lists. You can play people from around the world. Call me a braggart if you like, but you can look me up if you want a serious challenge. I can direct you to 10 other people on Vassal who can curb-stomp most people on any give day. When you've found the balance that meets your play style and can answer whatever people bring to the table....then shell out some money to enter your local tournaments and dominate. $5 entry fee to get yourself a drop pod. $10 entry fee for a battleforce box. 'Ard Boyz is free - last year I went to two preliminaries rounds, took first in both and got $180 in store credit, and just passed my other ticket down to someone else.

Go go go Vassal!

Had you mentioned this on the interview with 11th Company right before the tournament 20mins away i'd have tried this :(

Dashofpepper wrote:Rather than trying to purchase an army here and there....use what you have to earn you more. Play in tournaments at your FLGS. Hone your skills so that you can place and take prizes. Use those prizes to build your next army. If you're not good enough to win with one army, its probably safe to say that you're not ready for your next army yet.

I got the bulk of my first army (Tau) from e-bay, and while I spent a couple hundred bucks at my FLGS, most of the additions came from store credit. I bought two AoBR boxes, traded the marines for two others to found an Ork army - and spent a couple hundred dollars over a year or so building it up, but most of it came from tournament prizes. I have 3,000+ points of Dark Eldar - cost me $100 (tournament entry fees). Then I moved to Necrons (continually moving DOWN the competitive slope, trying to play more and more difficult armies) and have 4000 points of Necrons now - mostly acquired from trading out extra stuff of mine, with some supplemental purchases.

Now I'm collecting Space Marines. Thus far I've got 7 razorbacks, a vindicator, 5 land speeders, a land raider, 2 rhinos, 1x predator, 2x baal predators, 20 assault marines, two dreadnoughts, a Captain, Lemartes, a drop pod......all acquired in the last couple of weeks, and the only money I've spent is for shipping - sending people the stuff I don't use / won / etc in exchange for things I might be interested in.

That's my advice: Hone your skills with what you have. Excel at it. Use Vassal (www.vassal40k.info) to test different army lists. You can play people from around the world. Call me a braggart if you like, but you can look me up if you want a serious challenge. I can direct you to 10 other people on Vassal who can curb-stomp most people on any give day. When you've found the balance that meets your play style and can answer whatever people bring to the table....then shell out some money to enter your local tournaments and dominate. $5 entry fee to get yourself a drop pod. $10 entry fee for a battleforce box. 'Ard Boyz is free - last year I went to two preliminaries rounds, took first in both and got $180 in store credit, and just passed my other ticket down to someone else.

Go go go Vassal!

Dash, um... Not all of us are as good as you >.> We can't claim that we are the #1 pro player.

Also, statistically speaking, only 1 person is going to walk away with a decent amount of money at a tourney.

I just actually posted in another thread how I hate Mech Guard armies because I think they are unbeatable. What relevence does this have? Well a guy at my FLGS has an entire Mech Guard army all bought from either the store or Forge World. (Yes this guy has an incredible amount of disposable income) I personally would LOVE to build a Mech Guard army because they seem unbeatable, but with the prices they seem to only cater to people who have loads of money and I think thats unfair.

I was also appalled at the price of codexes now, I payed $15 for my first space marine codex I now payed $30 dollars for my Blood Angels codex. What would make the price of a codex go up. I understand paper and printing prices may go up but its not like GW can't stand to eat a little of the cost I have to imagine they are still making somewhat of a profit. But NOOOO they have to charge us $30 now.

Yes I believe prices are quite rediculous and my friend uses Ebay liberally. I would but I'm not a fan of online shopping plus I do like supporting GW because if they don't get money they go out of buisness, and if they go out of buisness oops no more Warhammer. (But I still hate their new prices)

Side Note: I do not in any way hate GW but I think their prices are outrageous and they do cater to people with loads of money by making things like Mech guard which you know they made vehicles so good in 5th edition so people would go out and buy more tanks which consequently have the higher margin. Very smart GW! It makes me sick though I would be happy if in the next edition vehicles got NERFED!

What does him having Forge World parts for his Guard have to do with anything?

gazelle wrote:Here in about a month or two I will embark on a series of articles "Tau on $50 a month" in which I will spend $350 over six months to build a 1500 point Tau army (based on similar article series in White Dwarf.) I plan to pay full retail for everything at my FLGS just to show how it is done. As my army increases in size, I will play a couple of games a month with it and feature battle reports as well.

My Eldar army that I a working on has been built from a combination of old stuff I had leftover, E-bay deals, trades, and two boxes of Dire Avengers bought at full retail from my FLGS.

I accept GW's price hikes as the cost of playing their games. Some things shock me: the cost of a single Swooping Hawk on their website is $15, a box of 6 is just a little more than double that. But overall I realize they are in the business of making money. They are responsible to their stockholders first, and as long as I line up to buy with my battlecry of "Baaa-aa-aa-aa!" it will continue.

In Australia it's actually almost impossible to do that as Ordo Dakka mentioned... you can buy a pair of Hounds for $22, a brush for $8, $6 for a pot of paint, $11 for glue... leaving three dollars left over...
From another angle, most Tau units start at $55... so 1x10 Kroot and 1x Fire warriors will leave only $240 codex $33... 211...battle force... 61... modelling supplies easily $30... could have three pathfinders then too. Could someoen who know the rough points work out that list?

1 XV8 (2 drones)
1 Devilfish (2 Drones)
3 XV25's
12 Firewarriors
22 Kroot
3 Pathfinders

Reported some for constantly breaking forum #1 rule ,
though lets see if mods do anything about it.

You were the hall monitor in school, weren't you?

evilsponge wrote:You were the hall monitor in school, weren't you?

You wish i were your hall monitor

........I'm confused and aroused.

The price hikes have been happening nearly as long as the hobby. GW are a company with shareholders these days. What they do isn't surprising really. Even if I don't like it it's going to happen.

LunaHound wrote:Reported some for constantly breaking forum #1 rule ,
though lets see if mods do anything about it.

Who was being impolite Luna?

Yeah I'm a bit confused too, that was Lunas first post in here... maybe they are lost?

So all this thread is then is a rant at GW price hikes?
Lets face it, they happen pretty much every year now, sometimes twice a year, i doubt this will ever change.

Best bet is to buy from a third party and get a nice descount.


Failing that, go with another system.

Greater daemons are what, £35 each? and thats for a reasonable sized model (by thier standards)




Thats from hordes.
It does has a 50mm base, so its clearly a fair bit bigger than the greater daemons.
It is however only £20

I only hate GWAU prices. Ordering from Maelstrom is about half the price of buying at any brick and mortar store or GWAU itself. If GW ever releases a plastic Sisters of Battle kit, I'll be buying about eight boxes worth at 10% off GWUK prices.

Asherian Command wrote:well this is my stores times
12AM-7PM
I get off school at 3:50
I do one hour of school work
4:50.
30 minutes to get there.
5:20 so i have only 1:40 minutes there.
Its not worth going to if it closes at seven for me. As it was once 8:00 but with only one guy at the store It is really annoying.

How about you make an agreement with your parents: do two hours of homework one day (or an extra 10 minutes the rest of the week), none the next? That would give you an extra hour at the store.

I consider you lucky.. in canada a tactical is $42,
the commander box for 1 guy is $30,
lysander is $30
Black reach is 110
a battle force is 120!
I would be happy to pay 90....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I bought 5termies and 1 dread before black reach and it was close to 120..

I have been repainting models, rebuilding, doing more conversions, and really honoring each squad for its worth because i haven't been buying anything for almost 6 months.
The last thing i got was 5 dark angel vets because vets cost 30 and 5 little sterngaurd models are $45! that is just pathetic.. $45 for 5 guys! seriously only 5.. that is just wrong! WRONG. I charge $40 an hour for my time, about $12 of it goes to costs, and its impossible to book a solid day of work. That is not near enough to be spending money on models... at least not much. Maybe when the economy is better... oh wait its only going down

yea price increases suck, i console myself with the knowledge i get 20% off, free shiupping and no sales tax, basically 27.5% off from buying in a gw.

I want to expand my army, but its like argh prices, maybe it will be better soon, argh prices are worse again... and i just keep getting pushed off. Its breaking my heart.

kaidsin wrote:I consider you lucky.. in canada a tactical is $42,
the commander box for 1 guy is $30,
lysander is $30
Black reach is 110
a battle force is 120!
I would be happy to pay 90....

I'll just leave this here, battleforces are $150 in AUS.

120.00 CAD = 122.860 AUD
1 CAD = 1.02384 AUD 1 AUD = 0.976719 CAD

Third party miniatures are the way to go here people: it's a big galaxy out there, who are we to say what can be found within?

That being said, it does seem that we only have cheap third party guardsmen right now. There are other things, though you have to get innovative. Also: no GW tournaments/events for you!

On the up side, you infuse some real variation into the game model-wise.

GW's rampant avarice is nothing new. Remember the paint pots anyone? They will do pretty much anything to squeeze more cash out of people for essentially nothing.

It's pretty much why I swore off buying new GW product about 10 years ago. I only buy used 40K stuff and hobby supplies from other companies. GW can gouge other people as much as they are able, but they won't do it to me anymore.

I save a lot of money trading/buying used stuff on rogue market. Thats how I do my part to say "FU" to GW's prices

Just out of Curiosity (no sarcasm here, seriously) has GW ever lowered their prices?

EDIT: let me rephrase that, if the economy improves does anyone think that GW will lower their prices, and is there a precedent for this?

I got into the hobby roughly two years ago and already my money doesn't go as far as I did when I purchased my first army. I feel the OPs pain, this bugs the hell out of me. I really want to pick up some of the new Dark Eldar when they come out, but not if it means choosing between shiny new models and electricity...or food.

You think that's bad? Try making a Sisters army.

There's no more 10 model box. So you buy three 3-model boxes, two special weapon boxes, and a VSS box if you don't want to just have her wield a bolter and nothing else.

So... that's $87 for a single Battle Sister squad with seven bolters, a heavy flamer, a meltagun, and a veteran sister superior. And after paying all of this, you won't have any extra bitz left over. They're all metal models. And the models aren't even all that great. Emperor help you if you want a full squad of twenty...

(Seraphim are even worse, you have to buy them individually, so a full squad of Seraphim costs $126)

Dashofpepper,

I am fond of your battle reports and recognize you as a top player but... you play at -- and compete at a different level than most, but I didn't think it'd changed your worldview of the 40kverse that much to think it's easy for even 'good' players to win an army.

You travel quite a bit for tournaments, which must cost you way more than most people spend on a simple second GW army. You win yours, and probably have a good income or source of wealth allowing you to travel to these events. Realistically, some people are simply prohibited by life circumstances to invest in travel, or the cost of a tournament (the Mechanicon ticket I'm saving my small amount of expendable income for is $125), or the cost of the models combined with how much free time they have to spend to be competitive enough to 'win' armies.

I have to take issue with the way you dismiss people wanting a secondary army if they can't win it. I hope you're joking when you say that if you can't win an army by going to every tournament in your half the the country and win consistently that you don't need another army. This is a hobby and people deserve what they can afford to collect.

This thread is about affordability at its heart - and in that way, every 10% raise GW does yearly affects the amount of people who can build competitive armies, or afford to collect a second army, or buy expansion units for a core army they've been collecting--it just shrinks and we have fewer people to play games with outside of Vassal (which although I recognize as a good way to 'train' it is NOT a real game and doesn't give me satisfaction in the hobby)

Zain~

@Dashofpepper

In canada there is very little tournament wise. I mean, there is not even a GW in my town.

Dashofpepper,

I am fond of your battle reports and recognize you as a top player but... you play at -- and compete at a different level than most, but I didn't think it'd changed your worldview of the 40kverse that much to think it's easy for even 'good' players to win an army.

You travel quite a bit for tournaments, which must cost you way more than most people spend on a simple second GW army. You win yours, and probably have a good income or source of wealth allowing you to travel to these events. Realistically, some people are simply prohibited by life circumstances to invest in travel, or the cost of a tournament (the Mechanicon ticket I'm saving my small amount of expendable income for is $125), or the cost of the models combined with how much free time they have to spend to be competitive enough to 'win' armies.

I have to take issue with the way you dismiss people wanting a secondary army if they can't win it. I hope you're joking when you say that if you can't win an army by going to every tournament in your half the the country and win consistently that you don't need another army. This is a hobby and people deserve what they can afford to collect.

This thread is about affordability at its heart - and in that way, every 10% raise GW does yearly affects the amount of people who can build competitive armies, or afford to collect a second army, or buy expansion units for a core army they've been collecting--it just shrinks and we have fewer people to play games with outside of Vassal (which although I recognize as a good way to 'train' it is NOT a real game and doesn't give me satisfaction in the hobby)

Zain~

Not to jump out and try to defend someone who doesn't really need anyones help lol, but I think you took Dash's post the wrong way. Its just another way to make a little extra disposable income to help fund the hobby, with the hobby. Sure not everyone is going to have the skill or means to become a "professional" player. It shouldn't however be totally discounted just because everyone wont be able to do it.

I really truely hate to quote a bloody cartoon, but I think it applies well here. Not *every person has potential to succeed this particular way, but *any person could potentially have what it takes to make it work, and might not have considered it an option before (Ratatoullie, oh god my kids have ruined me)

If that suggestion doesn't work for you (It will sure as feth never work for me) then there are several other suggestions that might at worst save you a little money that have already been mentioned .

I have 3000 points of Ogre Kingdoms that I won over various tournaments that I can't get rid of.

It's not all it's cracked up to be.

Tekksama wrote:Not to jump out and try to defend someone who doesn't really need anyones help lol, but I think you took Dash's post the wrong way. Its just another way to make a little extra disposable income to help fund the hobby, with the hobby. Sure not everyone is going to have the skill or means to become a "professional" player. It shouldn't however be totally discounted just because everyone wont be able to do it.

I really truely hate to quote a bloody cartoon, but I think it applies well here. Not *every person has potential to succeed this particular way, but *any person could potentially have what it takes to make it work, and might not have considered it an option before (Ratatoullie, oh god my kids have ruined me)

If that suggestion doesn't work for you (It will sure as feth never work for me) then there are several other suggestions that might at worst save you a little money that have already been mentioned .

Nah, I get what you're saying. However, in my opinion it's ludicrous to imply that if you don't win competitive play you shouldn't/don't need to collect another army. I think Dash is an exceptional player, but that was hard to stomach - as someone who even on a good income I have to really find time and money for this hobby, after finishing one army I don't feel like I should stop collecting unless I start winning free stuff.

Monster Rain wrote:I have 3000 points of Ogre Kingdoms that I won over various tournaments that I can't get rid of.

It's not all it's cracked up to be.

haha, I bet the GW peeps cracked up when they gave you all those Ogres!!

Heh. I like the army, I just don't have time for this many hobbies.

But yeah, it will be all Space Marines from here on out.

Slarg232 wrote:
Also, statistically speaking, only 1 person is going to walk away with a decent amount of money at a tourney.

True - but all of us are from different places with different stores. Dakka has played a large part in making me a good player - reading tactical articles, brainstorming communally, getting list critiques, reading about other army tactics....that's an asset that your local folks don't have. Use it, and every other advantage you have at your disposal to get an edge over your local opponents for tournament play.


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Zain60 wrote:Dashofpepper,



You travel quite a bit for tournaments, which must cost you way more than most people spend on a simple second GW army.

Ah....my apologies; I should have been more specific. The stuff I win when I travel rarely goes home with me trying to fit a stompa or a chimera or a giant chainsword into already packed luggage has proven not likely - the prizes we're talking about are all from FLGS tournaments, which folks DO have access to.

I actually don't have a FLGS anymore, and at my previous address lived in the middle of nowhere, with no FLGS within easy driving distance either, which is why I got into Vassal in the first place; it was the only way to get in 40k games....and the only tournaments were the ones I was willing to travel to - making it a "Travel to play or don't play" situation.

I've been pondering hosting a GT on Vassal for all the folks who want to play from home.

I wish GW wasn't so expensive because I want to expand my Eldar army by getting waveserpents and WW's and stuff but its too expensive. So Instead of buying waveserpents I'm going to try and make some from scratch but nobody wants to help me out. I don't have anything to base thier size off of so I cant start on them. Its quite a perdicament for a college student to continue this hobby when stuff is so expensive.

Why not learn a valuable life lesson by saving up money for things you want?

Totally un-American I realize, but you can buy almost anything doing that. Hell, I'm a saving up for a Reaver Titan.


Yes, I'm insane.

Right now my husband and I are using our credit card rewards points on Amazon gift cards and only buying new models using those. We are still buying paint at our local store because if you only need a couple colors the shipping is more expensive than the paint. Most sellers on Amazon are cheaper than GW.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Why not learn a valuable life lesson by saving up money for things you want?

Totally un-American I realize, but you can buy almost anything doing that. Hell, I'm a saving up for a Reaver Titan.


Yes, I'm insane.

I was going to do that but can't justify the price compared to use for myself.

Price increases have put my GW purchases on full stop. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of disposable income; it's just that they have now priced themselves beyond my perceived value of their product. It's fine if others will continue to buy but as for me, no thanks. What I may do is start a new fantasy army (since they axed my chaos dwarfs) using miniatures from alternative companies (there's no GW in my state so no worries about being denied access to opponents).

When the last hike took effect I decided that I was not buying anymore new stuff, instead I thought I'd try the second hand route. I had an itch to build a Crimson Fists army which I thought had been scuppered by the price rise. I visited this year's Claymore show at Edinburgh and see what I could find. In total I spent £55 and got 50 marines including some metals and five terminators. There were some problems,the previous owners had went bananas with the glue, others had templar's shoulder pads which were impossible to remove so I left them! A soak in dettol and the itch has been eased!
I think we are close to the point where metal models will disappear simply because less people are willing to pay the high prices. Unfortunately it looks like plastic is going the same way. In the UK there is an expected VAT rise due in January, does that mean we will for example, see a marine tactical squad priced at £25?

loranafaeriequeen wrote:Right now my husband and I are using our credit card rewards points on Amazon gift cards and only buying new models using those. We are still buying paint at our local store because if you only need a couple colors the shipping is more expensive than the paint. Most sellers on Amazon are cheaper than GW.

This is a totally legit way to do things, I can vouch for this method. I buy most of my everyday things with an Amazon credit card (and sometimes even on Amazon). I average about two $25 gift cards a month with what I spend. That's $50 of free stuff from Amazon just by buying gas, groceries, toiletries, sundries, and everyday stuff with my Amazon card. And now I realize I sound like a total tool, practically advertising for Amazon for free.

But it's the truth. My Tau army was filled out with free models from Amazon.

I think the thing with GW and miniature gaming in general is that once you have your mini's there's very little you need outside of the books. so they have to charge more for the minis. especially since the game has been around for so long and for the most part you can still use models from almost any generation of the sets. some of the rate hikes I agree is insane I will agree as far as AOBR almost doubling in price shrinking the size of squad sets etc . But i can see why they do have to increase prices.

I have to admit, I am finding that WH40K is becoming too expensive for me to maintain as a hobby, particularly as due to school-work I barely have time for it anyway. It's a pity, but I may have to lay off the hobby for a while due to this, at least until Uni.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Why not learn a valuable life lesson by saving up money for things you want?

Totally un-American I realize, but you can buy almost anything doing that. Hell, I'm a saving up for a Reaver Titan.


Yes, I'm insane.

Or maybe you're just being obnoxious, becuase we DO save up for what we want.

That does not change the fact that it is too expensive.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I have to admit, I am finding that WH40K is becoming too expensive for me to maintain as a hobby, particularly as due to school-work I barely have time for it anyway. It's a pity, but I may have to lay off the hobby for a while due to this, at least until Uni.

I hardly did anything during my undergrad, didn't have the time.

firstly, yes it is an expensive hobby(but look at the cost for 18 holes of golf lately?) If you want to get a second or third army. Go through the stuff that you have now, look at the lists that you play and see what you don't need anymore and trade that what I am currently do. Getting rid of my orks, eldar, SM to get Tau. As for them upping the prices I noticed that a while back. And back in the day when everything used to be pewter and now all plastic and the prices never went down when the switch happened! I do still go to my local GW all the time, even though I, my brother and a close friend all have tables at our houses. Because I like the people there, and like to get random games going.

It's expensive, and yeah so is everything else.

But the point is it needn't be as expensive as it is. Charge what it's worth, not what you can get. We are tabletop gamers, not drug addicts and we deserve to be treated like people with brains.

Price increases have had no effect whatsoever on what I buy, at least for my Marines-- generally, the kits have improved accordingly and you get more bang for your buck, even with the increases. The one exception is that metal characters seem less worth it now, but that may be because of the wider range of plastic bitz available for conversions.

We'll see what happens with Dark Eldar, which I'm considering starting up once the new 'dex comes out.

Codex creep seems to also help with the price. The more effectively we can build lists the more effectively we can spend our money. I think DE will be very cost effective, especially with the wych cults.

Yeah also the fantasy stuff like the blood knights are 90$ for 5? really? I had a long long talk with a guy who use to work plastics and metals. Cost 50 cents to produce and ever since most of the plastics are built in china it costs even less. Though the sculpts cost at least 10$ to make.

Though I highly doubt this is the case.
Though it should cost less amount of money as the black reach and all the new plastics stuff should not be that over priced.

I don't really understand why Battleforces are $90US and $150AU. The exchange rate is like 95c.

Keep in mind that making the molds involves massively expensive sunk costs.

Oh and it's not the cost of the plastics, it's the cost of the moulds and machines. I have a buddy who studies engineering explain the process to me and we aren't as hard done by as it appears. It's overpriced yes, but it's not THAT bad.


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Also keep in mind they have shareholders to please, stores to run that often have very little turnover and staff to pay.

Fetterkey wrote:Keep in mind that making the molds involves massively expensive sunk costs.

Lets see.
http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Injection-Molds/dp/B000EOTKA8
Hmm. 248$ for this piece of crap. Damn. I take it all back. Not really.

Are you joking? That's a DVD. Actual plastic injection molds cost thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Other companies are doing it Fetter, which is the issue at hand.

sorry.
I only typed plastic molds. In google.....
O.o
54 mm 9 mm 1:33.867 Collectible figures, a good match for 1:35 models, but oversize 54 mm figures would fit better with 1:32 models. Plastic dollar-store Army Men are often sold at this scale.
Heres a rough thing from the unreliable wikipedia!
If someone who actually works on or at plastic places. Please give me a rough amount i believe a mold would cost around 552$, and also as it is world wide. I really doubt that GW needs to have the costs for the models that high. DO they think that just because they already make millions of dollars a year that they can make us pay more?
Yes. Yes they do
Also ever since if it is made in china, and I know that all major companies now make chinese people work as it is cheaper than Western people. So these guys in China work for 1$ a day! While this European works for 25$ an hour! Lets see....... Who would save me money?

That's their right as a company, and their responsibility to shareholders. Aint nobody operating at cost price.

Melissia wrote:

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Why not learn a valuable life lesson by saving up money for things you want?

Totally un-American I realize, but you can buy almost anything doing that. Hell, I'm a saving up for a Reaver Titan.


Yes, I'm insane.

Or maybe you're just being obnoxious, because we DO save up for what we want.

That does not change the fact that it is too expensive.

Wasn't talking to you, Girly. I was responding specifically to the poster above mine who said he couldn't afford specific things to expand his existing army. Which is ridiculous if you can save even $1 a day. He'd have enough for either vehicle in less time than it would take to make a cardboard version.

Now I'm being obnoxious...

I must be confused. Are people on here really ranting about GW pricing? I ask those people - why rant and complain. Think of GW as a politician and you don't like what he/she is doing. What would you do to resolve that - you would vote him/her out of office. Do the same thing with GW. Vote with your wallets.

Every time you choose not to spend money with GW and give it to another company or to towards a different hobby or need (ex. power, food, etc.) you are voting against them. Just like in politics, if enough people vote against someone - they are removed. In GW's case, this means they would go out of business.

A rampant decline in purchases would force prices to come down. Its called supply and demand. Plastic dog poop is far cheaper than diamonds. But if a bunch of reality stars started wearing plastic dog poop from their ears and on their wrists - plastic doggie poo will be the new rage and everyone will want some. Demand will increase which will result in the supply decreasing. This will cause the the prices to increase. (This model is not considering a high-end fashion line of plastic doggie poo - perhaps coach doggie poo bags.) So to summarize, if you don't like it - don't pay for it.

Also, if you are buying new stuff from an online dealer remember that you aren't sticking it to GW. GW still makes and sells the product. You are hurting the stores that you are not buying from. If you have a GW store in your area you are kind of hurting GW, but not really. If you are not buying from you FLGS than you're hurting that store. That store that provides room for you to play with air conditioning, power, bathrooms. If you can play in your basement, good for you, but I want to get out of the house.

If you really like GW games but are hurting for money - get a job. If your are underage - try finding some lawns to mow or extra chores around the house. If you're in college a great part-time job is delivering pizzas. Its surprising how much money you can make in a short time. If you have a regular job - maybe take a 2nd. I know several people who work at a FLGS as a 2nd job just for extra cash to spend on their hobbies.

And remember to keep an eye out for the new fashion wave of plastic dog poop. When you see it start, find out what companies make them and buy stock in them. You'll be rich and then can afford whatever GW prices come your way!

This is why I started to build my tanks and such out of cardstock.

I still buy infantry (preferably in battle forces or online), but blockish vehicles can be made to look really cool with card, scrap and like 5$ worth of GW doodads per 20 vehicles. (The impirial eagle thing they have online is golden)

No LGS within 3 hours drive of me, No gaming community except my friends.

Got a 8ft by 10ft board for apocalypse games in the basement unfold-able.

Unlike say the PC gaming industry, which can legitimately die off without support, I'm reassured by that the price for plastic in china is what, 50 cents per box once you get it mass produced?

Then in the store, it sells for 60$?

what?

how?

^ because GW wants to be an exclusive rich man's club

Stick it to the man! Build your own damn tanks!

I'd rather spend the money than waste all that time and effort building vehicles out of card stock.

Honestly, no one who's complaining about the price seems to have any idea what they're talking about when it comes to running a business. The thread shouldn't be about how terrible GW's price point is, it should be titled:

"I can't afford GW products. Boo hoo."

As Vrakk pointed out, if you don't want to pay the prices, don't. Prices will drop if demand does. Behold the most basic of economic principles. It's the same reason that combi-fething-meltas are 9.99 at the Warstore! I love you Neal but really? Why don't you use a gun?

Vrakk wrote:I must be confused. Are people on here really ranting about GW pricing? I ask those people - why rant and complain. Think of GW as a politician and you don't like what he/she is doing. What would you do to resolve that - you would vote him/her out of office. Do the same thing with GW. Vote with your wallets.

Every time you choose not to spend money with GW and give it to another company or to towards a different hobby or need (ex. power, food, etc.) you are voting against them. Just like in politics, if enough people vote against someone - they are removed. In GW's case, this means they would go out of business.

A rampant decline in purchases would force prices to come down. Its called supply and demand. Plastic dog poop is far cheaper than diamonds. But if a bunch of reality stars started wearing plastic dog poop from their ears and on their wrists - plastic doggie poo will be the new rage and everyone will want some. Demand will increase which will result in the supply decreasing. This will cause the the prices to increase. (This model is not considering a high-end fashion line of plastic doggie poo - perhaps coach doggie poo bags.) So to summarize, if you don't like it - don't pay for it.

Also, if you are buying new stuff from an online dealer remember that you aren't sticking it to GW. GW still makes and sells the product. You are hurting the stores that you are not buying from. If you have a GW store in your area you are kind of hurting GW, but not really. If you are not buying from you FLGS than you're hurting that store. That store that provides room for you to play with air conditioning, power, bathrooms. If you can play in your basement, good for you, but I want to get out of the house.

If you really like GW games but are hurting for money - get a job. If your are underage - try finding some lawns to mow or extra chores around the house. If you're in college a great part-time job is delivering pizzas. Its surprising how much money you can make in a short time. If you have a regular job - maybe take a 2nd. I know several people who work at a FLGS as a 2nd job just for extra cash to spend on their hobbies.

And remember to keep an eye out for the new fashion wave of plastic dog poop. When you see it start, find out what companies make them and buy stock in them. You'll be rich and then can afford whatever GW prices come your way!

I'm not saying you are wrong or anything but I just never have seen the whole supply and demand thing work as it should normally in these niche hobbies. I've read about other games companies going belly-up and never really had price decreases. I don't have a source, just the stuff I read on dakka and around the web.

Anyone have an example of prices decreasing in our niche hobby?

I think it's all in real vs. perceived value. I can buy a box of plastic army men or a plastic tank OR I can buy a new tire for my car....a golf club (not an awesome one mind you)....a new video card for my computer (1gb cards run about $60 on tigerdirect).....a new pair of shoes.....a whole week's supply of groceries for two... All of which I, personally, would get more use out of than the tank that sees use maybe a couple of hours per week.

If I played several times per week it'd be a different story but I just don't feel the need to pay that much for something that sits in the closet most of the time...

That's my point. My perceived value of the product is not as high as the current price point, YMMV.

Then it is official we must stop buying GW PRODUCTS! For 1 month!

Pfff.. I'll just paint more commissions and buy with that.

SlaveToDorkness wrote:Which is ridiculous if you can save even $1 a day. He'd have enough for either vehicle in less time than it would take to make a cardboard version.

Really? There's models that cost less than a dollar?

Asherian Command wrote:Then it is official we must stop buying GW PRODUCTS! For 1 month!

Hell no, here is a simple two step guide to buying GW items.

1. Save money

2. Go buy the item you want.

It really is as easy as that. there is no need to go and boycott because of a small price raise.

Monster Rain wrote:As Vrakk pointed out, if you don't want to pay the prices, don't. Prices will drop if demand does. Behold the most basic of economic principles. It's the same reason that combi-fething-meltas are 9.99 at the Warstore! I love you Neal but really? Why don't you use a gun?

Like movie theatres, right? (at least here, and on other several countries from America and Europe as some contacts told me)

Where their train of thought seems to be "Piracy and online movies are hurting us, what can we do to attract more public? RAISE THE PRICES! HURRR!!!" And that's how a $7 ticket now was $10 and now it's $25 (oh, and less and less people goes :\)

Sanguinis wrote:Very smart GW! It makes me sick though I would be happy if in the next edition vehicles got NERFED!

So you would have to buy a whole assload of infantry to keep up with the trend? Seems even more cost prohibitive to me.

Which is perfectly fine for those of us that already use infantry-oriented armies to begin with (like... all three of my armies).

After reading more of this thread, I just want to know.....

Am I the only one who really only get's models on birthdays and Christmas? Mind you, that's probably why I have so few points despite having played this game for so long.

No, that's what I'm reduced to the last couple years, save for a single instance of me purchasing new Exorcists (I sold the GW ones for ten percent off, and then purchased the FW ones at a pretty nice profit). For that matter, next year is looking to be much the same unless they release Sisters as a codex.

Oh, good. It has lead to me not having what I really want, but it does make me not have to worry about spending money on it. That and since I don't really play by WYSIWYG, it's kind of a non-issue.

Dark wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:As Vrakk pointed out, if you don't want to pay the prices, don't. Prices will drop if demand does. Behold the most basic of economic principles. It's the same reason that combi-fething-meltas are 9.99 at the Warstore! I love you Neal but really? Why don't you use a gun?

Like movie theatres, right? (at least here, and on other several countries from America and Europe as some contacts told me)

Where their train of thought seems to be "Piracy and online movies are hurting us, what can we do to attract more public? RAISE THE PRICES! HURRR!!!" And that's how a $7 ticket now was $10 and now it's $25 (oh, and less and less people goes :\)

If people stopped going in large enough numbers, the prices would come down.

I avoid movie theaters like the plague, but that's just because people won't shut the feth up during the movie.

I went to watch Iron Man II, it was enjoyable (besides the price) because we where only 10 on the whole place, and 4 where friends of mine.

They didn't change the prices in the Netherlands DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD