dienekes96 wrote:Decent model...looks like a complex build.
No kidding Chuck. As much as I want that, I have to remember that it's resin, made by Forge World, and has multiple legs. I didn't get the Khornate Daemon Engine thingies because they were big models resting in tiny feet, and I'll be making the same choice here. In plastic? Sure. In resin? Go away...
I felt like a fool when Mr. Mystery said it was a hoax, since I had been convinced it was accurate. Nothing about his posting pattern with that picture indicated it was a hoax, so I was surprised when he claimed it was. I'm sure he (or she) had their reasons.
And even before he made the hoax claim, he was treated rather shabbily.
Nah, it's clearly a hoax. I used PhotoShop once so i can see the joins and stuff. Mr Mystery probably hacked the forgeworld website and the forgeworld stand at Gamesday too, just to ma?e himself feel important. What a troll!
Seriously though, i think a lot of people should reassess their attitudes after this reveal. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean you HAVE to be a prick.
Anyway, the model looks alright, but a bit too centipede-y for my taste. I won't get one, but it doesn't mean it's bad.
Leggy wrote:Seriously though, i think a lot of people should reassess their attitudes after this reveal. Just because it's the internet doesn't mean you HAVE to be a prick.
What was that phrase HBMC used... "This is Dakka."
Sonnuvabitch lol, here's me with doubting thomas on my face! For the record I wasnt one of the hoax callers, just thought it might be something else, I still think it barely looks necron compared to the current line...
But I guess it's going to look pretty darn necron compared to the new one!
Looks great, by the way. The experimental rules leads me to believe that we'll be getting a new necron codex soon. This seems very different from existing necron stuff.
a Lemon Puff can be taken out with 1 hit.
This needs 4 & can't be instant killed 'cause of the toughness 7.
Plus you could probably model it to have a lower profile than the Puff.
H.B.M.C. wrote:So people will now apologise to Mr. Mystery for call him in a troll and saying he had a "lot to make up for" for posting a "hoax".
Oh no wait. Of course they won't. This is Dakka.
Nah, why did he claim it was a hoax if he didn't want a negative reaction? Most people gave him the benefit of the doubt until he wrote a post saying "ha ha, I just hoaxed you suckers" or whatever.
Anyway, the model looks good to me but I don't collect Necrons.
H.B.M.C. wrote:So people will now apologise to Mr. Mystery for call him in a troll and saying he had a "lot to make up for" for posting a "hoax".
Oh no wait. Of course they won't. This is Dakka.
Nah, why did he claim it was a hoax if he didn't want a negative reaction? Most people gave him the benefit of the doubt until he wrote a post saying "ha ha, I just hoaxed you suckers" or whatever.
I think it looks great. I'd love to get one if i didn't have 100 other projects going on. If it gets added to the codex officially I might get one though when the time comes
You know, $59 USD for one of these isn't too bad of a price for a stupidly complex resin model. Perhaps it's just the GW-prices that are making me think this way.
Am I the only one that noticed that both of these are GDUK ONLY!? Way to go FW, make stuff that people are interested in but can't buy because they are exclusive to a con that only a few thousand people can attend.
The Grot Super Tank says that, and it might well be Limited Edition for the moment. If they sell out in the first 10 seconds, then they might make more. If they have several still sitting in their bags by the end, don't expect to see any more.
Oh man, that thing is pure awesome. It screams Necron if you really look at the details. Everyone keeps saying "it looks tyranidy". What? The back plates all look as if they were taken off of Immortals, and then overlapped. The head will look so good if given to a painter who can make it look like the eyes are glowing red a la Matrix robots, and the "maw" should be unholy/unearthly green or blue. That thing exudes robotic win, and I can only hope that the necrons get less skeletony and more evil roboty. They are super easy to paint now, but retardedly short on character. In deficit in fact, as Games Workshop made me mail in some of my own character when I made them one of my armies back in 2003.
And who doesn't love the first picture, with the guy pointing at the base, obviously saying "Hey, that f-ing robot thing just digested Ted out his rear aperture!"
The crab claws around the face are actually one of the best features. It should be able to roll into a ball like a rolly polly, and just roll around the battle field and shoot with land raider toughness. It will be terrible to put together, and you can't transport that thing, and heaven forbid a piece is damaged in its mailing to you. Then you'll have a gimp millipede as FW is the opposite of customer friendly. But, still Win for me, that thing is awesome.
I KNEW IT! Mystery, my apologies for previous remarks but as a Necron player who has been toyed around with my faith has been shaken. Getting at least 1 when it launches.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm sure it's just for their initial release (ie. the first run of casts). Once GDUK is over they'll go up for general sale.
That's my understanding too.
I bloody hope so as I want that Badab IA book!!
This model looks great. A cool direction for Necrons would be more of these robot insects - scarabs are cool and those stupid spider things have the potential to be cool too. If I was a Necron player I would be very excited. Robotic Praying Mantises had better replace those awful Destroyer models in the next Codex. Man, I should get a job in the design department.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm sure it's just for their initial release (ie. the first run of casts). Once GDUK is over they'll go up for general sale.
That's my understanding too.
I bloody hope so as I want that Badab IA book!!
This model looks great. A cool direction for Necrons would be more of these robot insects - scarabs are cool and those stupid spider things have the potential to be cool too. If I was a Necron player I would be very excited. Robotic Praying Mantises had better replace those awful Destroyer models in the next Codex. Man, I should get a job in the design department.
It's certainly good to see them get some moderately sized stuff to go alongside troops. There's only the monolith and that huge whatsit from Forgeworld and little inbetween.
Well hot darn. Something that fills a nitch that the Necrons need badly. If something like this shows up in the new codex Necrons could actually have a decent counter-attack model to keep all their stuff from dying. I mean even TH/SS only hit on 4+ and wound on 3+. I think they're friggin amazing! And I like the model.
I have to think that the Tomb Stalker will make it into the new codex, whenever that is. So in a way, this may kinda be our first look at 5th ed. Necrons. Which is cool.
I also personally like the idea of an expanded insectlike design approach, at least to the Necron robot constructs.
Mr M: your missing the main point mate.
They look a gakload better than liths too
So, GDUK is what, 2 days away?
Anyone in the south of the UK going? I wont be able to make it, but i want one quickly, since it will take me fething ages to put it together.
I really like the expansion. We already have scarabs and a tomb spyder. It makes sense to go this route with their war constructs. And it fills a gap. Personally I'm looking forward to things like this in the necron codex right up there with FnP and Stubborn USR's so that I can stop arguing with people about rules
Well, catachan devil aside, it has too many limbs for it to be linked to the Tyranids (remember there is no proff that the catachan devil is a nid offshoot, only theory).
I have to say (since its rare to hear this) that FW is really throwing out some decent stuff recently.
Seems 99% of thier newer items are things people want, with a half decent price and they even go to the trouble of sorting out rules ready for them.
Chaos: Thats very true, also, nids all keep to the theme of 6 limbs.
Even the more isolated breeds like ymgarl stealer follow it, so the devil doesent really conform to this very well.
Grarg: 1/6 isnt much of a chance to go wrong.
in an average 5 turn game it shouldnt happen, even if it does, it should only happen once. (this is in theory, and comming from someone who can fail a LD test on a LD10 model 4 times a game)
That thing is awesome for sure. If I wasn't getting rid of my 'crons (up for sale btw) I would definately be purchasing one when available. Mr. Mystery why did you yell hoax on your own thread when you obviously had good info?
Wait a minute, gauss flayers?!?!?! wtf those are rapid fire!! Please tell MC's can assault after rapid firing.... Because if not that is just plain dumb lol.
acidchalk wrote:Wait a minute, gauss flayers?!?!?! wtf those are rapid fire!! Please tell MC's can assault after rapid firing.... Because if not that is just plain dumb lol.
They might not be rapid fire anymore when the new codex arrives....
acidchalk wrote:Wait a minute, gauss flayers?!?!?! wtf those are rapid fire!! Please tell MC's can assault after rapid firing.... Because if not that is just plain dumb lol.
MC's are relentless, thus they can fire Rapid fire weapons and still assault.
acidchalk wrote:Wait a minute, gauss flayers?!?!?! wtf those are rapid fire!! Please tell MC's can assault after rapid firing.... Because if not that is just plain dumb lol.
My rulebook is at the club, but I'm pretty sure MC's are relentless anyway.
Without going radically off topic, can you assault from a deep strike if you are Fleet?
BOT: It looks awesome, I will be buying three, and points wise its cheaper and less vunerable than a Daemon Prince (although slighty less fast than a winged one). The 'War Construct' rule is all kinds of awesome.
It also says in the description about other constructs that differ in scale and form. Maybe there will be a repair variant or a heavy weapon carrier, as this one seems focussed on assault and counter assault.
Once again, awesome. so good to have new models!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melchiour wrote:
acidchalk wrote:Wait a minute, gauss flayers?!?!?! wtf those are rapid fire!! Please tell MC's can assault after rapid firing.... Because if not that is just plain dumb lol.
MC's are relentless, thus they can fire Rapid fire weapons and still assault.
I guess it looks ok, I just thing it looks way to short, and whats that random hole in it's ass for, it isnt jet propelled presumeably so what, necrons have exhaust pipes now?? It looks silly imo, and a better, more tapering organic tail would have fitted better. The rules and the rest of the model looks great though.
I really don't like it. The model itself is beautifully sculpted and obviously of a very high quality, but I don't feel it fits with even the most basic parts of the Necron style. (Talking about concept design here, not just GW sculpts).
If this is an indication of where Necrons are heading... I can't say I'm too happy with it. Again, it's not ugly, but I would not be interested in starting a Necron army if the rest of the line goes this way.
Cant see it from work but I remember the earlier blurry pic so it should be cool. The complexity of the blurry picture looked like a nightmare. Probably will require a lot of heating and bending, clipping and shaving. Much like my Casestus Assault Ram...sigh.
In regards to the "hoax", he probably just gave up, after all the dakka nay-sayers and jerks blasted him. Once again they are proven wrong...I love it. Oh and Dark Eldar arent coming out either huh? haha.
Father Gabe wrote:Cant see it from work but I remember the earlier blurry pic so it should be cool. The complexity of the blurry picture looked like a nightmare. Probably will require a lot of heating and bending, clipping and shaving. Much like my Casestus Assault Ram...sigh.
In regards to the "hoax", he probably just gave up, after all the dakka nay-sayers and jerks blasted him. Once again they are proven wrong...I love it. Oh and Dark Eldar arent coming out either huh? haha.
The assualt ram kit is a bit of a mess, I gather? I'm fairly surprised as usually the first casts are fairly good compared to future generations. for fw standards.
Beautiful kit. I'll probably buy one just for how cool it is. I love bugs and I love robots, so this is right up my alley. As a Necron construct though, it's just too campy IMHO. Spoooky robot skeletonsss and their creeepy robot bugsss... They even have a robot haunted house. I think we need a big robot bat next.
It looks super cool, but why did they give it Gauss Flayers? Should have at least been the same gun as the Tomb Spider. As it is it's so much better in close combat that I'd always Run it rather than shoot a pair of Str4 shots.
Aduro wrote:It looks super cool, but why did they give it Gauss Flayers? Should have at least been the same gun as the Tomb Spider. As it is it's so much better in close combat that I'd always Run it rather than shoot a pair of Str4 shots.
My guess is that the Staff of Light as we know it today won't exist in the new codex.
I personally think it's pretty cool. Though I think they could have extended the back-end a little more. I think having it taper off would have been better aesthetically.
Yeah, all the cries of cheese are so dump. Like Joe Bob in his room in his house has the authority to call someone else a liar when in all reality he has no more clue as to what is going on than anyone else on the internet.
It always makes me laugh: "Well, as for me, I'm taking this here rumor with a whole barrel of salt!"
Like really? Who gives a gak if you take the rumor with a salt shower. No one cares! Your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's unless your name is Reds8n or you work for GW's dev team.
Like anyone is going to look back after a rumor is proved to be false and go, gee whiz, that one guy, on that one forum, that one time said he took the rumor with salt, and he was right! Wow, he must be someone special!
If you disbelieve a rumor: OK. Swell. Why go out of your way to try and act superior when we are all just a bunch of nerds salivating over what toy soldiers might come out next. Show a little class and say, well, maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. Time will tell, but in the meantime, thanks for giving us something to speculate on.
But it is the internet, where everyone is an donkey-cave.
*Tomb Stalker emerges from shower wearing a towel*
"Hello Tyranid players. Look at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Now back at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Sadly, your Carnifex isn't me but if Robin Cruddace actually cared about the book he wrote and maybe playtested the crap that lies within it, then your Fex could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on the Forgeworld website weeping quietly to yourself. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the money you will spend on the shiny new Necron codex you want so much. Look again. The rules within are awesome!
Anything is possible when your Codex isn't written by Cruddface.
I think I need to start necrons now . . . that thing looks awesome!
Also: Nids with all their poison, sternguard, and snipers just got a cold shiver up their spine.
Biomass wrote:*Tomb Stalker emerges from shower wearing a towel*
"Hello Tyranid players. Look at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Now back at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Sadly, your Carnifex isn't me but if Robin Cruddace actually cared about the book he wrote and maybe playtested the crap that lies within it, then your Fex could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on the Forgeworld website weeping quietly to yourself. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the money you will spend on the shiny new Necron codex you want so much. Look again. The rules within are awesome!
Anything is possible when your Codex isn't written by Cruddface.
themrsleepy wrote:Mr. Mystery why did you yell hoax on your own thread when you obviously had good info?
Well, why would someone with access to insider information, posting that insider information, want to stop the discussion about that insider information? Make a guess about what has happened in the meantime!
Now let's move on.
Biomass wrote:*Tomb Stalker emerges from shower wearing a towel*
"Hello Tyranid players. Look at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Now back at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Sadly, your Carnifex isn't me but if Robin Cruddace actually cared about the book he wrote and maybe playtested the crap that lies within it, then your Fex could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on the Forgeworld website weeping quietly to yourself. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the money you will spend on the shiny new Necron codex you want so much. Look again. The rules within are awesome!
Anything is possible when your Codex isn't written by Cruddface.
I'm made of resin..."
*whistle whistle whistle whistle*
*jumps into a hole in the ground* Deep strike.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kroothawk wrote:
themrsleepy wrote:Mr. Mystery why did you yell hoax on your own thread when you obviously had good info?
Well, why would someone with access to insider information, posting that insider information, want to stop the discussion about that insider information? Make a guess about what has happened in the meantime!
Now let's move on.
It's why I deleted that Necron thread regarding info I got. The dude talked to me and said he'd be in deep gak if it was traced back to him.
Biomass wrote:*Tomb Stalker emerges from shower wearing a towel*
"Hello Tyranid players. Look at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Now back at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Sadly, your Carnifex isn't me but if Robin Cruddace actually cared about the book he wrote and maybe playtested the crap that lies within it, then your Fex could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on the Forgeworld website weeping quietly to yourself. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the money you will spend on the shiny new Necron codex you want so much. Look again. The rules within are awesome!
Anything is possible when your Codex isn't written by Cruddface.
I'm made of resin..."
*whistle whistle whistle whistle*
+++
Tell me about it! Here's the comparison:
+1 WS +1 BS -3 STR +1 TGH
+2 Init Better leadership
Fleet, Deepstrike, Hita nd Run
Protection from sniping and Poison via War Construct (should help greatly against the new Dark Eldar)
+1 attack on the charge
Nightvision
2 Gauss Flayers
For 25 points less the Fex gets Living Battering Ram, 2 Scything Talons and suffers/benefits from Synapse.
Honestly, I think this thing is clear and away better then the Fex. Higher Toughness for immunity to lasgun fire? Built in protection from poison and sniping? Hit and Run? Fleet? Initiative 4 without having to charge, and an extra attack when it does? Built in guns that fire at a respectable BS? feth yeah!
Not that I'm complaining. Necrons deserve to have something nice. It's just that sometimes I weep for my Fex.
I am definitely getting one and now I wonder, what glue would I use to assemble as I have no experience with resin models. Plastic, metal glue or some special glue?
@Necronlord3
Dude, why in the hell do you even care enough about what battlefoam does to make your avatar a boycott battlefoam picture?
Do you work for a rival foam company? If not, don't you have better things to do? Boycott a foam company. Really? There are some better causes out there, trust me, Brochacho.
Trilobite wrote:I guess it looks ok, I just thing it looks way to short, and whats that random hole in it's ass for, it isnt jet propelled presumeably so what, necrons have exhaust pipes now?? It looks silly imo, and a better, more tapering organic tail would have fitted better. The rules and the rest of the model looks great though.
I noticed the same thing.
I wonder if it's got a super-secret rectal cannon....
Reecius wrote:First of all, never compare FW rules to codex rules.
FW models are ALWAYS horribly over or under costed. The two rules writers are apples and oranges.
Second, everyone already had tons of Carnifexes, so they had to write rules to make you want to buy the much better Trygon!
The Tyranid book is plenty competitive and has multiple builds in it. I think it's great, but I don't want to derail the thread.
That model though, is sweet.
Hahaha, bring a few of those and a Vendetta and you can play Centepde on the table top!
I'm not sure why I can't compare the two. Forgeworld or not, Fex saturation or not, their both similar units in the same FOC for similar costs. The comparison seems fair to me. It's not as if the Tomb Stalker is for another game system. Just because FW units are seen as over or under costed doesn't mean they should be immune to comparison. I mean, that's HOW we know if they're over or under costed.
CT GAMER wrote:I stand beside my solution I proposed in the origianl "hoax" thread:
Mr. Mystey gets to stay because it was legit, and everyone that cried "hoax/photoshop/fake" should be banned.
Carry this policy forward and such threads will have much less drama and trolling in the future...
Or, Mr. Mystery gets banned for lying about the picture being a hoax, and everyone else continues with their lives. People are allowed to call bs on whatever they want, even if in the end they were wrong. At least they are not actively lying/misleading.
Reecius wrote:@Necronlord3
Dude, why in the hell do you even care enough about what battlefoam does to make your avatar a boycott battlefoam picture?
Do you work for a rival foam company? If not, don't you have better things to do? Boycott a foam company. Really? There are some better causes out there, trust me, Brochacho.
He obviously feels strongly enough about Battlefoam's past actions to protest against it. So what does it matter? Also, no argument that there are many more important things to be concerned with, but I see no issue with him voicing his opinion on the matter. Especially when he's doing so silently with his avatar, as he made no active comment about it until encouraged to.
Anyway, back on topic, thanks a lot for the info and the pictures. The rules don't look that bad and it'll certainly add some variety to the necrons. I'm not completely sold on the look, but it does add a bit more originality than simply being space undead.
Jake - So you compare a fast moving assault beast to a slow gun beast?
For the same points nearly a fex can take a S6 large blast, and you can have 3 per unit.
But they are nothing alike.
If you want to compare the tomb stalker, compare it to a trygon, since they both have the same role in an army.
CT GAMER wrote:I stand beside my solution I proposed in the origianl "hoax" thread:
Mr. Mystey gets to stay because it was legit, and everyone that cried "hoax/photoshop/fake" should be banned.
Carry this policy forward and such threads will have much less drama and trolling in the future...
Or, Mr. Mystery gets banned for lying about the picture being a hoax, and everyone else continues with their lives. People are allowed to call bs on whatever they want, even if in the end they were wrong. At least they are not actively lying/misleading.
LOL. Typical Dakka mentality...
The guy posted a legit sneak peek and got roasted for it, So he threw up his hands in sarcasm and said "ok yeah it's a hoax". And somehow he is still the the d-bag?
I really like the model but unfortunately the idea doesn't do it for me. I like the current theme for necrons where they teleport around, and having something used for digging through things or running around doesn't fit very well with this.
The guy posted a legit sneak peek and got roasted for it, So he threw up his hands in sarcasm and said "ok yeah it's a hoax". And somehow he is still the the d-bag?
I think nobody should be banned, but better ban the liar than the doubter. Do you disagree with that sentiment?
4M2A wrote:I really like the model but unfortunately the idea doesn't do it for me. I like the current theme for necrons where they teleport around, and having something used for digging through things or running around doesn't fit very well with this.
Yeah I mean theres no other unit in necrons that move through cover and look like slithery animals... oh wait.
Fair enough, that is a good point. However, you and the other gentleman who was really pissed about the Tyranid dex, were using the new Cron beastie as somehow proving that Carnifexes were invalid.
The thing is you have lots of variables that make direct comparisons pretty much useless.
1.) FW has different rules writers that do what they want. They have a long history for making useless and or utterly overpowered units. And while this model is not for a different game, it is not a codex unit. It is for non-standard games of 4K, although I doubt anyone would have a problem with this unit on the table top.
2.) Different books have different relevant costs for units because of the roll they fill. The same exact unit in two different books can cost a justifiably different amount due to the way they interact with that list.
So, you are free to make a direct comparison, however, it really doesn't objectively prove anything about the Tyranid codex.
@Necronilis
You make a good, reasonable point. However, I was being sarcastic, which is hard to pick up over the internet.
He gave a smart ass answer to a legit question and then I pointed out that it is rather silly to boycott a toy soldier foam company. It's not as if they use child labor or something. The fact that he is upset is self-evident, I was asking the question rhetorically. But again, sarcasm is hard to pick up over the inter-webs.
@CT-Gamer
Haha, too true, huh? Someone brings us a great sneak peak and everyone gaks their drawers about it and acts like a d-bag. The internet brings out the worst in people.
The guy posted a legit sneak peek and got roasted for it, So he threw up his hands in sarcasm and said "ok yeah it's a hoax". And somehow he is still the the d-bag?
I think nobody should be banned, but better ban the liar than the doubter. Do you disagree with that sentiment?
I think if Dakka had a policy that if people make claims of 100% legit sneak peeks/inside info they do so knowing that if they are lying or hoaxing they get banned.
Likewise if the peoplel that join such threads simply to bitch and moan about how fake and photoshopped it is are likewise held to the same requirement to stand by their words that we would have far less trolling, antics and interwebz drama in such threads...
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Jake - So you compare a fast moving assault beast to a slow gun beast?
For the same points nearly a fex can take a S6 large blast, and you can have 3 per unit.
But they are nothing alike.
If you want to compare the tomb stalker, compare it to a trygon, since they both have the same role in an army.
Wait... I'm only allowed to compare it to the Trygon?
I specifically made the Fex and Stalker comparison because it had already been brought up in this thread. I think it's a valid comparison:
- Both are about the same points.
- Both take up a heavy support slot.
- both have a similar stat line.
- Both have similar assault capabilities.
- Both are monstrous creatures.
- Both have deepstrike capability.
The Trygon might be a better choice, but the Fex is still a valid comparison. Especially since my POINT was that for a similar point cost the Stalker seems to be leaps and bounds better then the Fex.
CT GAMER wrote:The guy posted a legit sneak peek and got roasted for it, So he threw up his hands in sarcasm and said "ok yeah it's a hoax".
That's not actually what happened.
Meanwhile, nobody's being banned. Rumours are rumours. Posters have to make up their own minds as to whether or not they will believe any given rumour. Sometimes they're real. Sometimes they're made up. Sometimes they're real at the time at the time of posting, but things change. Sometimes they're real, but shouldn't have been posted and so have to be covered up. Sometimes they're based on something real, but someone only had part of the story and gets it horribly wrong. That's just the nature of the beast.
Wait... I'm only allowed to compare it to the Trygon?
I specifically made the Fex and Stalker comparison because it had already been brought up in this thread. I think it's a valid comparison:
- Both are about the same points.
- Both take up a heavy support slot.
- both have a similar stat line.
- Both have similar assault capabilities.
- Both are monstrous creatures.
- Both have deepstrike capability.
The Trygon might be a better choice, but the Fex is still a valid comparison. Especially since my POINT was that for a similar point cost the Stalker seems to be leaps and bounds better then the Fex.
But whatever.
Compare it to mephiston if you really like, but you wont get anywhere doing so.
How is comparing 2 creatures with different roles worthwhile?
The trygon is 5 points more, as opposed to 25 less, and has the same role in the army.
25 points difference may not seem alot, but for the upgrades it is.
No they dont, one is focused on shooting, with a few high S attacks to compliment it, the other is an all out assault creature with a multitude of medium S attacks (much like the trygon)
No, they fex is used mainly in combat for smashing heavy armour, stalker wounds be for light armour and heavy infantry.
as are most beasts in the nid book.
Except the fex needs a 40 point upgrade for deepstrike. (trygon has it as standard, and with fleet too)
Its never a valid comparison when you compare 2 things that perform 2 very different roles on the field.
Hahaha, dude, don't get upset. You can compare it to whatever you want, compare it to your cat for all I care. That's not the point.
Crons need something good in combat. Bugs don't. They fill different rolls in different armies. Fexes are more about shooting than assaulting in this edition. Bugs need the shooting, not the assaulting. This robo-bug isn't even official GW. This things proves NOTHING about ANYTHING in the Tyranid or any codex other than the Necron Codex.
Like Monster Rain said, compare it to the Monolith, Tomb Spider, and Heavy D. Not to heavy support choices or MC's in other books. It's apples and oranges.
But hey, not to derail the thread. You are free to hold whatever opinion you choose.
Automatically Appended Next Post: haha, Jack beat me to it.
Yeah I mean theres no other unit in necrons that move through cover and look like slithery animals... oh wait.
They have a specific function that goes with the theme. For example Tomb spiders are builders. If this creature had a purpose that fitted in with the theme I wouldn't mind but it seems like something used to get though walls or to catch fast enemies, two jobs teleportation makes uneccessary.
Yeah I mean theres no other unit in necrons that move through cover and look like slithery animals... oh wait.
They have a specific function that goes with the theme. For example Tomb spiders are builders. If this creature had a purpose that fitted in with the theme I wouldn't mind but it seems like something used to get though walls or to catch fast enemies, two jobs teleportation makes uneccessary.
Really. What's this teleportable(is that a word) Close Combat beast that the Necrons already have? Please enlighten me.
The Tomb Stalker's "specific function" is to be fast and run about and shred the living.
I keep thinking all those legs are separate pieces, and then can't fathom how you're supposed to get it to stand on 10 of them with the expediency of drying glue.
DarknessEternal wrote:I keep thinking all those legs are separate pieces, and then can't fathom how you're supposed to get it to stand on 10 of them with the expediency of drying glue.
Cyanoacrylic superglue+ spray on accelerator=profit.
DarknessEternal wrote:I keep thinking all those legs are separate pieces, and then can't fathom how you're supposed to get it to stand on 10 of them with the expediency of drying glue.
Rapid Cure is your friend in instances such as these.
Or pins might work I suppose, if you're feeling ambitious.
DarknessEternal wrote:I keep thinking all those legs are separate pieces, and then can't fathom how you're supposed to get it to stand on 10 of them with the expediency of drying glue.
I will have to see the kit to really come up with a solution but I'm pretty sure you'll be able to pose a certain number of legs to support the structure of the Stalker(probably just half the model) they will take the weight and the others can be glued on second. 3 contact points alone should support the model if you basically build it in two stages.
Depending if the main body is pose able or not , it doesnt have to be a complex kit.
Guess the main body mass can be split into 3 large parts and all we have to do is glue on the limbs.
Biomass wrote:*Tomb Stalker emerges from shower wearing a towel*
"Hello Tyranid players. Look at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Now back at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Sadly, your Carnifex isn't me but if Robin Cruddace actually cared about the book he wrote and maybe playtested the crap that lies within it, then your Fex could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on the Forgeworld website weeping quietly to yourself. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the money you will spend on the shiny new Necron codex you want so much. Look again. The rules within are awesome!
Anything is possible when your Codex isn't written by Cruddface.
So, Ouze...looks like you need to update your "scoreboard".
Anyway, it does look kinda cute (lol), but how the hell is that thing standing on that base? Even with some awesome pinning, I can see that thing breaking very easily.
Biomass wrote:*Tomb Stalker emerges from shower wearing a towel*
"Hello Tyranid players. Look at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Now back at your Carnifex. Now back to me. Sadly, your Carnifex isn't me but if Robin Cruddace actually cared about the book he wrote and maybe playtested the crap that lies within it, then your Fex could be like me.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You're on the Forgeworld website weeping quietly to yourself. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's the money you will spend on the shiny new Necron codex you want so much. Look again. The rules within are awesome!
Anything is possible when your Codex isn't written by Cruddface.
I'm made of resin..."
*whistle whistle whistle whistle*
You, sir, win.
Seconded. Very well played.
Thirded
Not to violate any laws but what do you think the going rate will be for one of these on eBay on Monday morning, or even Sunday evening for the truely evolved Games Day profiteer?
Very nice model, but not really the asthetic direction I wanted for my Necrons. I'd have prefered something more humanoid. I do like the proposed rules for it. It's essentially a more survivable, less killy trygon.
So I've had conversation about this offline, but I thought GW was getting away from Toughness 7 MC's. It seems a bit last edition to have a creature that can't be wounded in cc by most normal troops save Marines and Necrons.
Kevin949 wrote:i hope not, wraightflight is awesome. I'll take hit and run for them though. Fleet is pointless since wraiths don't run.
Hit and run would be nice, as well as what may be the fix for them not having power weapons with the +2 attacks on the charge. 18 attacks on the charge would be pretty sweet.
zeshin wrote:So I've had conversation about this offline, but I thought GW was getting away from Toughness 7 MC's. It seems a bit last edition to have a creature that can't be wounded in cc by most normal troops save Marines and Necrons.
Considering the two Toughness 6 special characters in the various Space Marines codexes, a T7 MC doesn't seem all that far fetched.
Samus_aran115 wrote:Yeah, but those are enormous HQ's that are the only thing 'different' in the whole codex...Not a good example, imo.
There's more than one T6 marine guy? I thought plague bikers were the only ones....
There are two more T6 creatures in the Necron Codex that you're forgetting, not to mention the hardest vehicle to kill, so wrong.
Also, Cassius and Mephiston are the SMs I was referring to.
Ah yes. My fault.
That's a bit silly. Neither of those characters have anything that should really put them that high. Can't marines just be happy with their 3+ saves and 4 toughness?
Monster Rain wrote:C'Tan are T8, so it's not like there isn't precedent for high toughness MCs in the codex.
True but they were written for rules that are two editions old now, they're hardly current.
Monster Rain wrote:
There are two more T6 creatures in the Necron Codex that you're forgetting, not to mention the hardest vehicle to kill, so wrong.
Also, Cassius and Mephiston are the SMs I was referring to.
Wait, two T6 creatures in the necron codex? Only the tomb spyder. The lord, yes, but only if you pay for the upgrade. What is nice though is that like 1/2 the necron army is T5.
I'm talking about 5th edition codices. Look at all the 'nid MC's who are T 6 who used to be able to buff to 7. That was my point in regards to this seeming like a backward step in stats.
Monster Rain wrote:Is there an outline of where GW monster toughness is heading so I can read up on this? Why would Tyranids have any bearing on the Necrons?
Any 5th edition codex have anything t 7? And I thought my point (and attached assumptions) was somewhat clear.
Yeah, tyranids are different, I guess. Most of the army is monstrous creatures, and if they aren't good, why bother using them. In the fluff, carnifexii are almost impossible to kill in CC, so T7 would be a little better.
I would like to point out that with the exception of the wraithlord, all monstrous creatures in the game are currently flesh and blood (more or less). This thing is not... its a robot made of living metal. There is no reason why it couldn't be T7, 8, 9 or even 10. Using one codex to guage the "rules of the game" so to speak, is an exercise in futility. What seems to be the standard for one codex, need not be the standard for another.
chaos0xomega wrote:I would like to point out that with the exception of the wraithlord, all monstrous creatures in the game are currently flesh and blood (more or less). This thing is not... its a robot made of living metal. There is no reason why it couldn't be T7, 8, 9 or even 10. Using one codex to guage the "rules of the game" so to speak, is an exercise in futility. What seems to be the standard for one codex, need not be the standard for another.
And, by precedent, the WL being T8 means the Necron model can be T9 or T10. ____
Samus_aran115 wrote:I think T7 is enough for this thing.
I like T10 better - 1/6 chance to wound, even for a SM with a PF.
With a 4++, so that it saves 1/2 of those wounds (along with the Lascannon and Vindicator shots that people throw at it).
Give it at least 4 attacks so it can just chew through SMs
Reecius wrote:Tough 10? That would be stupid. Strength 6 wouldn't even be able to hurt it.
8 is the most any model should be, IMO, unless it only has 3 or less wounds.
Or, the corollary should be, costs nearly 400 points? The C'Tan occupy a slot that nearly nothing else in all of 40k occupy, and should have stats (and cost) to match. I'd have no problem with T9 or T10 for the avatars of gods (or space vampire god-wannabes, more accurately). I'd also see the Eldar's Avatar get a buff commensurate with that.
Edit for clarity: Tomb Stalkers aren't in that pantheon. T7 is fine.
So in question to the Necron players currently drooling over their keyboards, does this model with it's rules finally start to erase the close combat handicap of the necron army. As i don't play crons I cannot look at the thing and tell if it will work or not.
doubled wrote:So in question to the Necron players currently drooling over their keyboards, does this model with it's rules finally start to erase the close combat handicap of the necron army. As i don't play crons I cannot look at the thing and tell if it will work or not.
It's a fast CC unit. It's not as tough as the C'Tan, but with fleet it will definitely be able to get a hold of the enemy a little easier.
Being able to Deep Strike also negates some of the mobility problems that the other Necron CC units(and I do use the term loosely) like C'Tan and Tomb Spyders and Pariahs have, and the fact that it ignores armor saves makes it preferable to Flayed Ones and Wraiths when it comes to trying to fight Marines.
I like T10 better - 1/6 chance to wound, even for a SM with a PF.
With a 4++, so that it saves 1/2 of those wounds (along with the Lascannon and Vindicator shots that people throw at it).
Give it at least 4 attacks so it can just chew through SMs
Athera wrote:Yeah. That would be great. Especially for all of the people that run out to buy one and then get "No Thanks" when they ask someone "Wanna play 40K?"
It would be awesome!
Waaahhh... ____
Ouze wrote: As a Necron player, that seems a little... un-fun. Especially for 195 points. I'd save T10 for C'Tan.
Yeah, what a horrible idea that the Necron Wraithlord-equivalent might actually be tougher than a Wraithlord, and require players to react in the same way that players have to deal with other all-new game-changers like Tervigons and Valkyries and Lash...
____
Reecius wrote:Tough 10? That would be stupid.
Strength 6 wouldn't even be able to hurt it.
8 is the most any model should be, IMO, unless it only has 3 or less wounds.
The Tyranid titan that is tough 9 is so ludicrously hard to kill. It isn't fun.
Tough 7 is not that big of a deal, strength 4 can still hurt it.
Tough 8 isn't even that rough. It is the equivalent of an AV12 vehicle, which small arms can't hurt.
Fine. Save T10 for the other Necron entry - C'Tan.
Necrons have a Living Metal AV14 Tank which ignores practically everything. S8 basically can't touch it, needing S9 or better to have any real chance of doing anything.
Given that Necron theme of being hard to kill, T9 seems very much more reasonable on a Necron MC than a Nid one.
T7 and T8 trade off against IG and SM having AV13 and AV14 Tanksl, which aren't as obnoxiously hard, but still a tough nut to crack. What sense does it make that Necrons aren't very hard to kill based on the army design to date?
____
Ouze wrote:Or, the corollary should be, costs nearly 400 points? The C'Tan occupy a slot that nearly nothing else in all of 40k occupy, and should have stats (and cost) to match. I'd have no problem with T9 or T10 for the avatars of gods (or space vampire god-wannabes, more accurately). I'd also see the Eldar's Avatar get a buff commensurate with that.
Edit for clarity: Tomb Stalkers aren't in that pantheon. T7 is fine.
And why shouldn't Tomb Stalkers be nearly just as hard to kill as a Monolith? Necron should be able to spam a pile of Heavies that are giant, indestructible rocks.
The idea that they'd be hard to kill really seems like a weak argument.
Really. What's this teleportable(is that a word) Close Combat beast that the Necrons already have? Please enlighten me.
Ok brain failure moment Yes the crons don't have a fast combat beast, because they don't need one.
Really? You don't play Necrons do you? If you don't, allow me to tell you that they most definitely do need one. CC is the Necrons' major problem in 5th Edition. If you do play Necrons... I just don't know what to say to you.
Also, you don't need to be a tool. From where I'm sitting your post more accurately describes your post, not mine. So let's keep it friendly.
4M2A wrote:
The Tomb Stalker's "specific function" is to be fast and run about and shred the living.
Running (or crawling) is pointless when you can teleport.Teleportation is faster, and you can't be attacked while your teleporting.
Yeah. And? You also can't assault after you teleport unless very specific conditions are met. Tomb Spyders can't teleport and they see a lot of playtime, this thing trades the Spyder's WBB buff for a host of other CC related abilities. So what if it can't teleport? None of the other Necron Heavy Support can do so, except for Heavy Destroyers and honestly; A: Who uses them, and B: Why would you teleport them?
This thing is exactly what the 'Crons need. A perfect counter assault unit that can get to where you need it. Move through cover, fleet, DEEP STRIKE! I wouldn't be surprised that IF this got into the new codex you'd see it given the rule like the mawloc given the concept.
I'm not talking about the rules. This thing looks great if you want to play competitively and I think it's good that necrons get something new and shiny. I just don't like it because I feel the idea doesn't fit the fluff of necrons. This is purely based on the way I visualise necrons. The tomb spider may not be worth teleporting in the rules but in the background it makes sense.
4M2A wrote:I'm not talking about the rules. This thing looks great if you want to play competitively and I think it's good that necrons get something new and shiny. I just don't like it because I feel the idea doesn't fit the fluff of necrons. This is purely based on the way I visualise necrons. The tomb spider may not be worth teleporting in the rules but in the background it makes sense.
Given that it's a cross between a Tomb Spyder and a Wraith I don't understand how you would come to that conclusion. Particularly since fluff is whatever GW says it is, and that it can change without a moment's notice. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion.
The painted version at Games Day UK looks much better than the unpainted pictures. Like I said, definitely a beautiful sculpt.
I'm still not liking the antennae/face. I guess I always liked the Necrons for their cold, robotic, skeletal feel (even the Tomb Spyder was very mechanical looking). The very organic face just seems to not fit with the existing style (and isn't a style I particularly like outside of the very obvious flesh/metal hybrid Pariahs).
Painted, the rest of it looks pretty good. Still not sure why it has the jet engine ass though.
Yes GW can change the background but I just prefer one aspect of the fluff. I'm not saying I don't like it because it's unfluffy (I agree that as soon as Gw say it is then it is), as much as that it doesn't fit in with the rest of the cron fluff (very small difference).
When I think of the necrons moving quickly I see them as silently gliding (or in the case of Flayed ones creeping), which fits the undead/ emotionless theme. I guess I find this models looks to alive and clunky for the necrons.
I think this unit will be a worthwhile choice. Your core competative necron army uses only warriors imortals loards maybe some destroyers and a monolith although very few people seem to know how to use a monolith properly. In a 1500 point game I would happily take one of these and hold it back with the rest of my units in cover or behind the lith just as people wouldnt be to keen to go near it.
For the record whats all this about teleporting tomb spyders? they cant you cant use the lords teleport or anything without the necron special rule a rule I fear will be replaced with feel no pain as that seems to be the in thing.
I also noticed that its living construct rule is something I always thought crons should just have maybe seeing early rules for the new dex there?
Truffle wrote:
For the record whats all this about teleporting tomb spyders? they cant you cant use the lords teleport or anything without the necron special rule a rule I fear will be replaced with feel no pain as that seems to be the in thing.
That's what I was saying.
The Tomb Stalker's Deep Strike and Fleet abilities put it head-and-shoulders above the other Necron CC units that can't teleport.
H.B.M.C. wrote:So people will now apologise to Mr. Mystery for call him in a troll and saying he had a "lot to make up for" for posting a "hoax".
Oh no wait. Of course they won't. This is Dakka.
Indeed.
Because apparently due to several PM's I have received from posters who think its their job to uphold the good name of rumors here on dakka, "Roomorz Я Seriuz biznizz!!"
Well, in my trawling of the GDUK pics, I've noticed that it looks like the Tomb Stalker may have more than simply pose-able legs, the whole things looks like you can position it to taste. Evidence:
Initial pic we saw (from the start of this thread):
New pic, painted:
In the resin, in a lower pose (pic is also new):
FW website one, painted "attacking" pose, and unpainted flat to the ground pose, all visible in the same new shot:
Seems very unlikely that they would do a plastic version so soon after the resin. The best I think we could hope for is inclusion in the Necron codex, with only a resin model.
ph34r wrote:Seems very unlikely that they would do a plastic version so soon after the resin.
The best I think we could hope for is inclusion in the Necron codex, with only a resin model.
Yeah, I think the chances for a plastic release are rather slim. I wouldnt mind it in the codex though.
Fine. Save T10 for the other Necron entry - C'Tan.
Necrons have a Living Metal AV14 Tank which ignores practically everything. S8 basically can't touch it, needing S9 or better to have any real chance of doing anything.
Given that Necron theme of being hard to kill, T9 seems very much more reasonable on a Necron MC than a Nid one.
T7 and T8 trade off against IG and SM having AV13 and AV14 Tanksl, which aren't as obnoxiously hard, but still a tough nut to crack. What sense does it make that Necrons aren't very hard to kill based on the army design to date?
A 5 wound t9 MC would be vastly harder to bring down then you seem to think and 5 wounds with T7 is tougher than a trygon for a lower average point value. Necrons are the tough army and this creature would be the toughest MC in the (codex) game to down short of the special character Great Unclean One. This things as tough as a small tyranid titan and very easy to shield from fire in the necron army (the height works in it's favor when taking shelter behind monoliths as counter-assault).
Could it be tougher? Yeah. But T9 takes it out of 40k and puts it into the land of the stupid. At t9 it would take 30 average guard lascanon shots to bring down. 60 if it's sheltered behind something. Some armies would be totally unable to deal with a fleeting T9 MC that has both hit and run and gets extra attacks on the charge. T9 would make it relatively immune to the tyranid army at large (I guess carnifexes would have a use). As a reference point it would take 18 guard lascanons shots on average to kill a land raider. A tank that is 50 points more and larger would take half effort to kill then a T9 bug while being more vulnerable to CC and Melta. Your comparisons are way off there.
Though technically we are talking about FW, and they do have a tendency to be a little extreme...making stuff either way over the top and "broken", or hitting new lows and coming up with some truly useless units. But that's why it's not "official" and usually never sees play outside of friendly games.
Kurgash wrote::O I didn't even notice the little feeder arms set by the mouth! Found another thing to love about the model! When does it go on sale!? MUST HAVE!!!!
Agreed. For only about $60 its a pretty cool model.
"As a reference point it would take 18 guard lascanons shots on average to kill a land raider"
Incorrect. It takes ~3 pens, which with s9 require 18 hits, and with bs 3 equates to 36 shots. 72 with 4+ cover.
Half range melta require 2 pens, which they get ~50 percent of the time on 2 dice so 4 shots hitting, 8 bs3 shots total/16 with cover.
To be fair, MC's in the nid book are pathetic save for the tyrant guard buffed hive tyrant. T6 is a joke. T8 is good, but t9 is no laughing matter.
If t9 were to be the standard for this necron beast, then it would take 4 las cannon shots at bs3 per wound. If you wanted to make the critter on par with a 'raider, take the shots needed to be the average between the melta (8 shots) and the las cannon (36 shots), thus 22 las cannon shots without the save. Since its 5 wounds, this is 20 las cannon shots, almost right on par with a land raider equiv average of 22. Since it cant transport, subtract 50 points and call it a day.
Personally I like the war earwig it's nice to see something new for the Necrons and I like the way the sculptor went with this. It reminds me of the ship Virgil from that movie The Core with the jet engine type thing at the front and back. I'm also trying to think of a way I could convert one into a Necron Destroyer Lord type thing
As far as the paint scheme is does look better painted but I deffinitly think it needs another color then Just silver, i'd be curious to see it with the silver and red. Makes me antsy to see whatever shiney (pun intended) new stuff is in the new codex whenever it comes out.
Fine. Save T10 for the other Necron entry - C'Tan.
Necrons have a Living Metal AV14 Tank which ignores practically everything. S8 basically can't touch it, needing S9 or better to have any real chance of doing anything.
Given that Necron theme of being hard to kill, T9 seems very much more reasonable on a Necron MC than a Nid one.
T7 and T8 trade off against IG and SM having AV13 and AV14 Tanksl, which aren't as obnoxiously hard, but still a tough nut to crack. What sense does it make that Necrons aren't very hard to kill based on the army design to date?
A 5 wound t9 MC would be vastly harder to bring down then you seem to think and 5 wounds with T7 is tougher than a trygon for a lower average point value. Necrons are the tough army and this creature would be the toughest MC in the (codex) game to down short of the special character Great Unclean One. This things as tough as a small tyranid titan and very easy to shield from fire in the necron army (the height works in it's favor when taking shelter behind monoliths as counter-assault).
Could it be tougher? Yeah. But T9 takes it out of 40k and puts it into the land of the stupid. At t9 it would take 30 average guard lascanon shots to bring down. 60 if it's sheltered behind something. Some armies would be totally unable to deal with a fleeting T9 MC that has both hit and run and gets extra attacks on the charge. T9 would make it relatively immune to the tyranid army at large (I guess carnifexes would have a use). As a reference point it would take 18 guard lascanons shots on average to kill a land raider. A tank that is 50 points more and larger would take half effort to kill then a T9 bug while being more vulnerable to CC and Melta. Your comparisons are way off there.
I like the Lower Pose one. The Model isn't fantastic, but the rules seem interesting. I might get one. I like the idea of basing it on the Crashed Piranha.
While making it a walker would be nice, it would complicate it a little too much me thinks.
Main reason would be armour values on the angles.
while the front and back armour would have a very small surface area, the sides would be huge.
These classifications of armoured areas would also change in sizes depending on how it was posed.
While its a great idea, i find it would complicate it a bit too much, and alot of people would spend a great deal of time talking it through pre-game.
Kan - while its sad, some people do however pay the price.
The same guy also advertises new chaos ogres / nurgle frogs etc.
He has alot of stuff up for sale before it comes out, all at a rather heavily inflated cost of course.
Flash - I tried to find a dakka member that was going to GD to grab me a stalker (i would obviously pay for it plus give them a tip for it before they went) however, couldnt find one I guess its human nature to want what we see if it pleases us.
That same guy probably bought out as much of the stock as he could, at normal sales price, and is either going to make a killing(sadly) or is going to get undercut like hell when the actual models get put up for preorder.
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:While making it a walker would be nice, it would complicate it a little too much me thinks.
Main reason would be armour values on the angles.
while the front and back armour would have a very small surface area, the sides would be huge.
These classifications of armoured areas would also change in sizes depending on how it was posed.
You could just give it the same AV all the way around.
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:While making it a walker would be nice, it would complicate it a little too much me thinks.
Main reason would be armour values on the angles.
while the front and back armour would have a very small surface area, the sides would be huge.
These classifications of armoured areas would also change in sizes depending on how it was posed.
You could just give it the same AV all the way around.
What a concept.
I wonder if any other Necron vehicles would be similar with the same AV values on each side...
Ktulhut wrote:You guys seem pretty optimistic that there'll be a new necron codex any time soon...
Oddly enough, Necrons are rumored to be after Grey Knights, whom are after Dark Eldar.
? Thought it was confirmed.
Can I ask where? PPOR guys.
Harry from warseer said so in a PM to me from my necron rumors back in august, thought that had trickled out from there onto here, guess not.
Default Hi For what it is worth I know the info you posted about Necrons is essentially correct .... although the reasons you were given are not completely accurate.
However I did not chime in on your thread as we are already getting ahead of ourselves with the GK release.
So I was interested what else you might have heard from the same source ... as he is clearly a man that knows things?
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Kan - while its sad, some people do however pay the price.
The same guy also advertises new chaos ogres / nurgle frogs etc.
He has alot of stuff up for sale before it comes out, all at a rather heavily inflated cost of course.
Flash - I tried to find a dakka member that was going to GD to grab me a stalker (i would obviously pay for it plus give them a tip for it before they went) however, couldnt find one I guess its human nature to want what we see if it pleases us.
I've got a 'lith to build this week, but after that who knows? Double the price would have been just about acceptable, but triple
Still no clue as to when it is coming out. Do FW update their site on a particular day of the week?
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:While making it a walker would be nice, it would complicate it a little too much me thinks.
Main reason would be armour values on the angles.
while the front and back armour would have a very small surface area, the sides would be huge.
These classifications of armoured areas would also change in sizes depending on how it was posed.
While its a great idea, i find it would complicate it a bit too much, and alot of people would spend a great deal of time talking it through pre-game.
AlexHolker wrote:
۞ Jack ۞ wrote:While making it a walker would be nice, it would complicate it a little too much me thinks.
Main reason would be armour values on the angles.
while the front and back armour would have a very small surface area, the sides would be huge.
These classifications of armoured areas would also change in sizes depending on how it was posed.
You could just give it the same AV all the way around.
Dang you beat me to it. Heh. Was having this discussion with my friend the other day, I said the same thing. AV 11 or 12 all around with living metal.
Kevin949 wrote:Dang you beat me to it. Heh. Was having this discussion with my friend the other day, I said the same thing. AV 11 or 12 all around with living metal.
The living metal idea is still a bit scary, but on AV 12 I guess it doesn't seem that bad.
JohnHwangDD wrote:BS3 IG Lascannon vs AV14? 36 shots = 18 hits = 6 glance/pen = 3 without cover
BS3 IG Lascannon vs T9 W5? 36 shots = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 4.5 without cover
T9 W5 seems pretty fair
That table still puts the MC as being on par with a vehicle thats 50 points more while being vastly less vulnerable to pure anti vehicle weaponry and immune to things like immobilization, loss of weapons, and shaken/stunned results.
Yeah, for some reason I forgot that glance tables existed though T9 is still pretty unfair considering the majority of armies don't bring the kind of lascanon firepower to bring the creature down and standard methods of bringing down MCs (missiles or plasma) would have a very difficult time of it. You can focus down a land raider easy with any old drop melta squad or lance weapon, there is no hard counter to a 5 wound T9 creature except sheer brute force. The kind that 200 points does not warrant. If you want T9 then be prepared for the ~100 point increase that will bring down on the model. Theres fluff, then there is what is balanced in the game at large. Mathammer doesn't take into account average army comp and most armies don't have what it takes to bring something like this down without expending an amount of effort that 200 points is simply too cheap for.
WRT Nids, they're still flesh bags - this is a LIVING METAL BUG that happens to be just as tough as a METAL BAWKS!
It's two thirds the size of a trygon and it's already tougher.
9 pages of talking about this thing and its rules, and I still haven't heard anyone say this yet- Skulltaker could wipe out this "bug" with ease. Hehe, he stomps any kind of bug in a single hit. My daemons will LOVE anyone who brings three of these instead of monoliths. His special rules don't prevent instant death, so it's dead on a 4+ to wound. Skulltaker costs less too. Hehehe...
timetowaste85 wrote:9 pages of talking about this thing and its rules, and I still haven't heard anyone say this yet- Skulltaker could wipe out this "bug" with ease. Hehe, he stomps any kind of bug in a single hit. My daemons will LOVE anyone who brings three of these instead of monoliths. His special rules don't prevent instant death, so it's dead on a 4+ to wound. Skulltaker costs less too. Hehehe...
Strangely I feel the same way every time someone takes skulltaker and they realize that my most expensive HQ choice has a jump pack and hit and run so he will never be in combat with it (and the other one is a weapons platform on a bike). Really, the same could be said for this thing. Skulltaker only moves as fast as his little hooves can take him, and thats not very. Jaws of the world wolf will hurt this thing pretty badly though.
Very true Kevin, but since one of my main 40k opponents uses 'crons and he'll probably rush out to get a few of these...it gives me an excuse to finish my mounted Skulltaker conversion to show him why he needs to put them back on the shelf. However, on topic, this is probably the best looking forgeworld model I've seen yet, with the possible exception of Lugft Huron or the Chaos Dragon. Having seen a bloodthirster in the "flesh"(resin), I can say I wasn't as impressed with that as I thought I'd be. But this tomb stalker is beautiful, and if I ever played 'Crons I'd Carry one of them and 2 monoliths
Oh, I'll be getting at least one for sure as well. But I'll wait until they're out of the "experimental rules" phase for it. Also, it's pretty ambiguous of them to say, and one could argue, "Sniper weapons, attacks with the
Poisoned ability and the like, only wound the Tomb Stalker
on a 6" would lead to other abilities (such as skulltaker) to have to adhere to this rule as well. But I don't know skulltakers rule either so I'm just speculation (don't tar and feather me!).
bubber wrote:a Lemon Puff can be taken out with 1 hit.
This needs 4 & can't be instant killed 'cause of the toughness 7.
Plus you could probably model it to have a lower profile than the Puff.
Skulltaker has rending attacks on a 4+ instead of just a 6 and inflict instant death. He's also only 140 points, 175 on a juggernaught increasing his strength, wound and attack. Toughness too, I think. So he'd be nasty against it. If the Tomb Stalker gets out of experimental rules and they make him immune to rending weapons too, then Skulltaker will be useless against it, but I don't see them doing that. Oh well, could go either way. If they made it ignore rending, it'll mostly just hurt Skulltaker and won't affect other rending models as much (even though the nice thing about anyone's rending is the ability to wound ANY target on a 6 with no armor save, REGARDLESS of strength and toughness.) So maybe they SHOULD make him immune to rending. But they can't make it more powerful than a C'tan, so I don't see that happening.
timetowaste85 wrote:Skulltaker has rending attacks on a 4+ instead of just a 6 and inflict instant death. He's also only 140 points, 175 on a juggernaught increasing his strength, wound and attack. Toughness too, I think. So he'd be nasty against it. If the Tomb Stalker gets out of experimental rules and they make him immune to rending weapons too, then Skulltaker will be useless against it, but I don't see them doing that. Oh well, could go either way. If they made it ignore rending, it'll mostly just hurt Skulltaker and won't affect other rending models as much (even though the nice thing about anyone's rending is the ability to wound ANY target on a 6 with no armor save, REGARDLESS of strength and toughness.) So maybe they SHOULD make him immune to rending. But they can't make it more powerful than a C'tan, so I don't see that happening.
The rule in question is;
War Construct: The Tomb Stalker is a huge mass of shifting pseudo-metal, with little vulnerability except to the massive use of force. Sniper weapons, attacks with the Poisoned ability and the like, only wound the Tomb Stalker on a 6 (as opposed to a 4+, 2+ etc, as would normally be the case).
First, remember that these are experimental rules, but that said, the reading seems that it ought to be expansive (i.e., that the War Construct rule prevents automatic wounds on anything but a 6). Thus, Skulltaker most likely would be able to inflict instant death by means of his "Skulls for the Skull Throne" rule, but only on a roll of a 6.
This creates an amusing situation where, if Skulltaker is charged by a tomb stalker, there tomb stalker is likely to only inflict 2 wounds (6 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds on T5 Skulltaker) which is not enough to kill, whereas Skulltaker has a 55% chance of killing the stalker outright. But failing that, SKulltaker will inflict no wounds, as at S5, he needs 6 to hurt the stalker at all. The best advice for a Necron player facing skull taker remains, sadly, to shoot him down with destroyers from range*. Which is sad mainly because that's the Necron solution to everything...
That said, this model does not "fix" the many problems Necrons have in this edition, but it's an awesome model that I can only hope it's appearance is indicative of a new themes that we will see in future (hopefully plastic) kits for Necrons and a renewed attention to their rules.
Well, hope anyway...
*5 destroyers: 15 shots, 10 hits, 6.7 wounds, 2.3 wounds unsaved. At first glance only very slightly better then the stalker, but this is at great range, and with essentially zero chance of Skulltaker ever catching them.
Jaws of the world wolf gives MC s a 4 + save... Or immunity, not sure which off hand but yea it wouldn't be fun to watch this model drop to a hundred point priest
Buzzsaw, my problem is that currently C'tan can be 4+ killed by Skulltaker-if they can, most assuredly the Tomb Stalker should be able to as well. Plus, they'd be making that rule to only affect one model (Skulltaker) if the rending only allows a six, no special modifications allowed. His ruling is special, while poison and sniper weapons are rules available for MANY models and they typically need 2's or 4's to affect other models-rending itself requires a 6, but Skulltaker is a lone exception to the norm, hence he should still be able to 4+ its head off. So I think the Stalker's rules probably won't affect him, unless a PDF errata or the forgeworld rules include the effects of rending, because it is a bit different in its wounding ability from poison and snipers
timetowaste85 wrote:Buzzsaw, my problem is that currently C'tan can be 4+ killed by Skulltaker-if they can, most assuredly the Tomb Stalker should be able to as well. Plus, they'd be making that rule to only affect one model (Skulltaker) if the rending only allows a six, no special modifications allowed. His ruling is special, while poison and sniper weapons are rules available for MANY models and they typically need 2's or 4's to affect other models-rending itself requires a 6, but Skulltaker is a lone exception to the norm, hence he should still be able to 4+ its head off. So I think the Stalker's rules probably won't affect him, unless a PDF errata or the forgeworld rules include the effects of rending, because it is a bit different in its wounding ability from poison and snipers
-updated for odd wording
Here's the thing. Skulltaker, ohhh scary scary indeed but really this argument is all based on the conclusion he will get into combat with the Stalker. Unless the Necron player does something wrong I'd doubt it, move through cover, fleet and a ton of supporting fire coming from the rest his army I'd doubt you'd throw Skulltaker just to kill 1 model and watch him die afterwords. Not exactly the best idea =/
Well, the post isn't really to talk about how I play my daemons, but I'll just quickly elaborate to say that I have a bunch of models that can force his Stalker to move a bit, giving me some extra range and Skulltaker never hangs out alone. On topic, the argument was more along the lines of whether they will alter the stalker's special rules to allow him to be immune to specialized, single character only rules, such as Skulltaker's. Also, if they do, this will make them more powerful than a C'tan, which while not impossible is pretty foolish. While the necrons haven't gotten an update in a long time and other books have more powerful mortals, a necron unit should not be more powerful than a necron god at half the cost. That's more what this was intended to be about, other than my very first post gloating that skulltaker could go choppy choppy on a stalker and if nothing else, force an opponent to play very carefully and defensively with this guy
Well the way I see it, he's still affected by rending. Sniper, poison, and the lot, are designed to not be the strongest but have a certain ability about them that makes them more powerful then they usually are. Sniper rifles hit weak spots in between armor, while poison have toxins that are designed to infect the bloodstream.
But because of the armor around it's designed to be much more difficult to affect the body itself around all that armor.
Rending is not like that though. It's simply a weapon that can occasionally rip through armor.
Soulx wrote:Well the way I see it, he's still affected by rending. Sniper, poison, and the lot, are designed to not be the strongest but have a certain ability about them that makes them more powerful then they usually are. Sniper rifles hit weak spots in between armor, while poison have toxins that are designed to infect the bloodstream.
Soulx wrote:Well the way I see it, he's still affected by rending. Sniper, poison, and the lot, are designed to not be the strongest but have a certain ability about them that makes them more powerful then they usually are. Sniper rifles hit weak spots in between armor, while poison have toxins that are designed to infect the bloodstream.
False.
Poisons only wound him on a six.
What I was saying is why it doesn't affect him. Perhaps poorly worded on my part, but when I was talking about snipers and poison, I was trying to say how it affect regular enemies, but why the Tomb Stalker is so different.
War Construct: The Tomb Stalker is a huge mass of shifting
pseudo-metal, with little vulnerability except to the
massive use of force. Sniper weapons, attacks with the
Poisoned ability and the like, only wound the Tomb Stalker
on a 6 (as opposed to a 4+, 2+ etc, as would normally be
the case).
Phase Tunnelling: The Tomb Stalker is extraordinarily fast,
and carries inbuilt phase field projectors allowing it to pass
easily through inert matter, boring its way through rock
and stone, and effortlessly passing through debris and
rough terrain as it moves. As a result it has the Fleet, Deep
Strike, Move Through Cover and Hit and Run universal
special rules
By "Meh. I thought that covered it pretty well," do you mean that rending- representing an extremely powerful attack that is accurate enough to smash through armor- isn't covered by the stalkers rules, or that they were including that by the "etc"? It's pretty much ambiguous as is.
Personally with the way it is read/written and how skulltaker works, I would still say the ability only works on a 6 instead of a 4+ (as usually rending is a 6 anyway and it does say that abilities as such only work on a 6 instead of 4+ or 2+) but it would still be an insta-gib from skulltaker if it happened.
But yes, it is a very ambiguous rule and needs much interpretation/clarification.
it says snipers and poison and the like, meaning weapons that usually have a set "to wound" based on their rules in the book-which is normally a 4+ for most poison and snipers. Skulltaker is a single oddity in the game, in his ability (as far as i know), and as such I can't see them adjusting the rule just to hinder him. Anyway, totally ambiguous, and I'm sure they'll fix it later
doubled wrote:Umm i know this is a little off topic, but both C'Tan are immune to instant death doesn't that stop skull taker?
Not true in the slightest. They are immune to ID from Wraithcannons only. All other ID weapons will kill them normally, assuming the proper conditions are met.
I have a question regarding the codex's release date. If GKs are before necrons, why are there so few rumors in comparison to them? As well as necrons getting a new model, it sure makes it seem like the necrons would be released first doesn't it? Also, in one of the first GK release rumor threads back in... March I think, it listed DE and Necrons as "Deep in development" and Grey knights as "work started." Also, I saw a necron rumor that stated that they had completed the development phase or something along those lines.
As for the tomb stalker itself, good model with underwhelming rules.
doubled wrote:Umm i know this is a little off topic, but both C'Tan are immune to instant death doesn't that stop skull taker?
Not true in the slightest. They are immune to ID from Wraithcannons only. All other ID weapons will kill them normally, assuming the proper conditions are met.
Which is based on a quirk of the ID mechanics from back in third, yes?
Farmer wrote:Seems the necrons thought if they can't beat tyranids make their own versions of them.
Not sure they really need to beat them. Fluff has it that the Tyranids hive mind is actually controlled the the 4th C'tan, The Outsider. He is wandering outside the galaxy and using the Tyranids to attack instead of Necrons like the other C'tan. Well the other free ones anyways...the Void Dragon is still entombed underground on Mars. Its rumored that he is the "machine spirit" that the tech priests are worshipping...
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doubled wrote:We'll have to see from what I read the next Cron Dex will be without the C'Tan, Whom are going Apoc and FW only.
Works for me. However, until the new dex comes out Ill probably be adding a Nightbringer as an option for my army...cant ignore CC ability like that just because the fluff behind it is kinda meh.
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