This will be the place for everything non dark eldar from Games Day.

Go for it guys.

got this from warseer drool

Hides precious battlewagons in abject terror...

/sniff

Okay, the extra armor is going on all my future LR.

That's the Techmarine gun, isn't it?

Hey! its the new FW LR someone mentioned 3 weeks back, proved the gw apologist wrong good job!

Hot damn, are those TL Multi-Meltas AND a Thunderfire cannon?

*Waits for the CSM to one day get some LR love*

:(

Upcoming Forge World (SciFi) stuff (pics by Gedara from Warseer, second and fourth one by BolS, third one by PhilBrad):

New Eldar tanks : Lynx in foreground, 2x Hornet in background.



















Ork weapon sprues:

I really, really like the Mk4 dreads. I think I prefer them to any other variant even based on this one blurry pic. Here's hoping the next time GW updates the plastic kit, it will look like that.

Wait, is that an Imperial Jetbike in progress?

I have to admit the chrome paintjob on the Necron centipede thing looks ace.

Eldar tanks.....drool. Damn FW, can't this just be built in plastic, then give us rules in the WD? Bet WD sales will go through the roof with release combinations like that.

Actually not wowed by the Phantom titan. It reminds me a whole lot of the old Armorcast titan.

Sarigar wrote:Wait, is that an Imperial Jetbike in progress?

I could be mistaken, but it looks like a dread arm.

Nice cron centipede to keep their undead tomb dwellers theme.

The Eldar seem to get a design change, should be fine but I not a space elf so what do I know?

The Space marine dreads are ugly. Have already too many but wouldn't swap a single one for these.

Achilles Land Raider....so where is the fatal flaw in his armor...
Like the look, the cogwheeel may indicate its a mechanicum unit,no?

You know, Sarigar, I think you might just be right about the Imp. jetbike. If so, that's awesome.

Also, the Necron insect o' doom looks pretty awesome. Looks like some kind of Titan or something?

First tidbit about the upcoming IA11 on Eldar vs. Imperium, more in the upcoming Seminar to follow:

Fraggle over at Warseer wrote:Hi all. I know it's not de related but whilst I'm waiting for the fw seminar thought I post what I chatted to will Hayes and Warwick about IA11. In addition to the vehicles seen there will be new aspect warriors but this will be addressed in the seminar. Warwick did say that they are looking at doing cadian upgrade kits for winter fighting ( boots, gloves, face protection and googles) and also tank upgrade kits (air intakes, snow ploughs etc) These will be to go with the plastic cadian kits but he did say that vahallens may be looked at in the future in the same way as elysians. One last think is that the space wolves will be a whole great company. He wouldn't say which one but did confirm the lord was going to be modelled and ruled out a couple. It was hinted that it may be a mounted model..... The deathwolf perhaps
(...)
No great coats for cadians as would be essentially a whole model rather than an upgrade. Having said that the guard part of IA11 is not a preconcept stage yet, just ideas. Warwick did say most big ideas like skidoos and snow CAT style vehicles would have to be part of a big vahallen project at a later date. Just to avoid confusion this is not a confirmation of vahallens!

They are also looking at pre-heresy in the form of 30k but this is a long way down the line if ever
(...)
3 versions of the phantom Titan likely with warlock to follow. Will said d cannon, and close combat as seem in the build, as well as tremor cannon, sonic lance and a fist ( I think). He said the warlock would depend on how much extra time it took to do. He is lined up for more eldar stuff after the Titan, which will be Available for Xmas.

Warwick gave me anrin through of the IA 11 story which I can post when I'm back home.

Will couldn't confirm any plans for additional super heavy elder
(...)
IA10 hopefully before Xmas and IA11 around march. More on aspects after the seminar which starts in 20mins. I will report back. Eldar small skimmers may have interchangeable turrets by the look of it.
(...)
Just out of seminar. Little bits a pieces. Best is new aspect warriors call shadow spectres. Have jump packs and mini fire prism like weapons which can combine
(...)
The eldar hornets are £32 when released

PhilBrad2 over at Warseer wrote:IA11 definitely SW/Cadians/Elysians vs Eldar.
New aspect for the Eldar - Shadow spectres, think jumpacks with mini prism cannons which can combine beams for added firepower. Models are stunning.
Nothing on the Wolves it wil be a ice planet set and there will be cold weather IG stuff.

BolS wrote:Release schedule is as follows

* IA 9 - Badab War 1
* IA10 - Badab War 2
* IA1 - Second Edition (Updated Rules inline with Codex Imperial Guard etc..)
* IA Model Masterclass Volume 2
* IA11 - Eldar vs Space Wolves, Cadians and Elysians

IA9 and 10 will have background for over a dozen marine chapters between them, and rules for various characters from them.

The Phantom titan looks very similar to the old one, which is fine by me, at least, since the Armorcast model has aged very well indeed.

If anyone attending GD hear's anything on a Thunderwolves kit? Be sure to let us know. Anything on the Libby/Chaplain kit would also be appreciated.

That picture of the Phantom looks pretty much identical to the wip version from a few months ago which in turn looked exactly like the Armourcast one. Due to the general lack of detail (only the two shoulder attachments have any detail at all, there are no spirit stones or anything anywhere) it wouldn't surprise me if it was the same one. At that stage it was clearly noted that it was just a quick mock up hence the lack of detail.

I quite like the Lynx it looks sleeker and flatter like the new Fire Prism turret (the Prism/Falcon hull really shows its age with the new turret). It looks suspiciously like a turretless Prism cannon actually. The Hornet (and the other one next to it if its not the same tank) looks a bit weird though, too many chunks taken out of it on strange places. Would probably look better if the cockpit was more swept back and lowered actually.

The Dreads are definitely short on detailing even allowing for the heavy armour plated look shared with the new LR. I'm hoping you don't get stuck with Multi meltas though, putting them on a tank with a Thunderfire cannon seems like a strange choice.

Hoping to hear some good 40k expansion/wave release tidbits.

The MkIV Ironclads are great, I believe the thing that could be mistaken as a jetbike is actually the seismic hammer for the Ironclad, great looking weapons! The Achilles looks formidable, I can't wait to hear the fluff on this one!

WOAH WOAH WOAH, MORE Eldar prism weapons? God dammit they have jump packs too... I hate those damn prisms they always get me.

Those eldar vehicles still look a little silly imo. Looks like it took the nonsensical designs of star wars or something

Philbrad2 from Warseer just left the FW seminar and posted the following:

OK just left the FW seminar

IA11 definitely SW/Cadians/Elysians vs Eldar.

New aspect for the Eldar - Shadow spectres, think jumpacks with mini prism cannons which can combine beams for added firepower. Models are stunning.

Nothing on the Wolves it wil be a ice planet set and there will be cold weather IG stuff.

Bell Of lost Souls pic from FW seminar


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also this via Warseer's Lord Xedge with all the new models from Forgeworld.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/g/gdcatsup.pdf


Philbrad2's pic of the new aspect warrior:

the necron tomb stalker looks awesome.. cant wait till it gets released

must have iron hands brass

must have iron hands brass

must have iron hands brass

must have iron hands brass

Hah. Looks like I was spot on hoping for a Thunderfire themed Land Raider.

Anyway, I gotta admit, out of everything shown at this Gamesday, I'm most excited for IA:11, since it'll have my two favorite armies (Elysians and Space Wolves) and, on the whole, unenthusiastic about this whole Badab War business.

Also, what's the point behind these Ironclads? They already have existing kits, and, if memory serves, are a relatively new addition to the Space Marine armory, fluffwise. Maybe they want to retcon in some Venerable Ironclads?

God Bless the Forge thats all i can say!!

Got some stuff on Chaos Dwarves:

Engineers, crew, and some machines are done. You can probably find some pictures floating around somewhere.

There is no current plans to reintroduce Chaos Dwarves as a major army-rather, they will be worked into the other Chaos lists.

There are no plans to produce any Chaos Dwarf 'grunts' so to speak at this moment in time.

Artwork for Hobgoblins, Bull Centaurs, and Tauros are done. And if the art is anything to go by, yes, you will want a Tauros.

Not expecting much, but anything on Grey Knights?

Never bought anything from Forge. Does that mean the new Eldar mini's are gunna be really expensive?

I always hear "ka-ching$" when I hear "Forge World".

Love the Shadow Spectres.

Yay, new Eldar aspect looks awesome! Hope you can buy the LR Achilles armour separately.

More info:

Fraggle wrote:Will try and split up info into smaller posts.

Shadow spectres - have JETpacks rather than jump packs. Similar to Tau use. The wepon is a mini prism which would combine and be anti-vehicle. They are supposed to reflect the spirits of the dead in their appearance, hence the floating.

Was also talk of a JETpack close combat aspect, but think that was the other option which wasn't taken.

Hornet - twin linked. comes with resin pulsars but can use any of the normal heavy weapons. Pulsars will be expensive.

Cosairs - book puts some focus on raids by corsairs and rangers. Upgrade kit likely (helms, weapons etc).

Exodites - none in IA11. Left until a later date as would need large model set. (please not this is not confirmation just that its out there as a concept)

Jetseers - spoke to the guys about possibilty of an upgrade kit at some point. They said they hadn't really considered it but would look at it again as its an obvious hole in the range.
(...)
General story of IA11 is a eldar colony world which 'put into storage' (deep freeze) and forgotten.

Discovered by imperium during Great Crusade.

Small eldar defending force destroyed by SW.

10k years later eldar discover webway portal to planet but then find that the defending force has been killed and replaced with guard/marines.

Series of raids from corsairs/rangers etc before the big craftworld army attacks.

Planet is of significant importance as they need to justify the use of the Phantom.

Cadians + Elysians to be involved (with cold weather upgrades as mentioned in my previous posts)
Space wolves are the marines, concentrating on one Great Company.
Likley to be One SW character and maybe a couple of Eldar.

Eldar also getting fully enclosed war walkers (for the cold)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:Got some stuff on Chaos Dwarves:

Engineers, crew, and some machines are done. You can probably find some pictures floating around somewhere.

There is no current plans to reintroduce Chaos Dwarves as a major army-rather, they will be worked into the other Chaos lists.

There are no plans to produce any Chaos Dwarf 'grunts' so to speak at this moment in time.

Artwork for Hobgoblins, Bull Centaurs, and Tauros are done. And if the art is anything to go by, yes, you will want a Tauros.

I started a Warhammer Forge thread some time ago and will quote you there:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319251.page

OoieGoie wrote:Never bought anything from Forge. Does that mean the new Eldar mini's are gunna be really expensive?

I always hear "ka-ching$" when I hear "Forge World".

most likely 25 to 30 for five

Liking this:

Finally, some non Tau Jet Packs. Its almost like non Eldar Lance Weapons! bit of a waste of Rulebook Space to have army specific stuff in them

I love that Phantom, but IF I'm ever insane and/or wealthy enough to buy one... I'm holding out for the Warlock version!

So...was there any photos of the cold weather gear for Cadians/Elysians?

Any info on the black library????

On the Badab war front (technically not Games Day but I got mine there today, so I guess it counts), we now know what is likely to be the new moniker for the infamous Space Sharks-Carcharodons. They're mentioned as being in part 2 in the campaign rules.

goo in my pants!

There's a pic of the 'enclosed' war-walker canopy, but I think that's it so far on the 'cold weather' stuff...

Those Eldar light tanks are so bitchin. But that little guy is packing a Pulsar? Holy gak. I guess you could just counts as it as a B.Lance. It looks great.

That new aspect is amazing looking, too. I just hope the FW guys don't make the rules for it out of balance like usual.

kenshin620 wrote:Finally, some non Tau Jet Packs. Its almost like non Eldar Lance Weapons! bit of a waste of Rulebook Space to have army specific stuff in them

Anyone have pics of the actual resin titan in that there cabinet?

Looks to have more details.

Kanluwen wrote:So...was there any photos of the cold weather gear for Cadians/Elysians?

No, still 2 Badab books to fill with Imperial stuff, IA 11 is stil a bit in the future. And FW has shown enough new stuff today, hasn't it?

Anyway, here an extended coverage of the FW seminar by Dio´Ra from Warseer:

Hey all just returned from GD UK and my feet are killing me.

For the sake of some order I thought it would be a good thing to keep the FW news seperate from the other 40k news from GD.

Have ended myself the FW seminar and will post some pictures of it in this thread aswell.

Anyway bullet points from the seminar:

Books for 2010/2011!
- IA9 Badab war 1
- IA10 Badab war 2
- IA1 second edition (rules are updated only)
- Model masterclass volume 2
- IA11 Battle for Hoth! (Tony kept using the word Hoth, go blame him )

Okay lets start with some IA10 details:
- Final battle
- Big bad ass showdown between Culn and Huron
- New space marine war machines
- SM siege list
- new rules for BFG

Space sharks are now named as the Carcharodons (the name change is final) and the chapter badge is not the final design yet, see picture below and are described as being kind of tribal now alla space wolves, but different tribal..I guess triba tattoos alla surfers.

The necron model was a one off model so don't expect morenecrons coming for the next two years.

IA11 details:
- Eldar, space wolves, cadians and elysians
- New eldar troop choices and two new aspects
- Cadian will get hoth kind of upgrade kits, so think of the rebel soldiers on hoth or maybe the snowtroopers...Tony didn't mention which side of hoth troopers he ment
- few elysian stuff, only because they didn't finish them on time during IA8 release
- New space wolves, but don't expect thunderwolfs, as Tony said FW ain't here to fill out missing GW models in codexes but that they rather want to do new things, take it with a grain of salt maybe you SW will get a new Wolf lord on a wolf with a personal guard on wolves, who knows
- Eldar, see pictures for new vehicles and one of the new aspect warriors, eldar will also get a char mayhaps, new war walker variants

Shadow spectres are equiped with jetpacks and have fire prism like weaponry.

Also Tony reacted very enthusiastic about pre heresy Dreadnoughts, when the question was asked if they are gonna make them.

Also while talking to Alan I got the following out of him:
- Badab war part 2 this xmas out, as the book was written as one and was just too big to be onebig so they had to cut it in half
- Sons of Medusa...we might get interesting fluff about their origin and also see hints of a future IA with Iron hands in the lead role, he told me he liked the IH because they are gonna be ver different than your standard marines...
(...)
The lynx is indeed armed with a pulsar and was described as being kind of a falcon without transport capacities and armed with a big gun...so not a super heavy, expect it to have stats from a falcon with a single pulsar.

As for the Hornet....ehm we didn't talk much about it...

Note the enclosed warwalker cabin!

Sildani wrote:From other threads, the Hornet has a twin-linked heavy weapon. It can be given pulse lasers (like the Falcon's) for a sizable point cost - which is what it has in the pics.

It'll cost 32 GBP when released.

There's one Badab book to fill with Imperial stuff.

IA9 is done, releases week after next.

I spoke to Warwick and the sculptor about the new eldar models models, and got some info:

The LYNX, is armed with a pulsar, but the model was very rough in appearance, so it likely won't be out for a while.

The HORNET is armed with bright lances, is uberly sexy, and according to the sculptor (whose name I've forgotten) they've completely re-done the cockpit details, so the pilot is wearing guardian armour instead of the, as warwick put it, "Leather Jacket with a ginormous zip down the middle".

The Shadow Spectres are, quite simply, the sex. Warwick says that they're working on a full squad of five, plus an exarch, and a pheonix lord. The model that was on display is the only one that is completed at this time, but there are two more being made at the moment.

Rules wise, the sculptor guy asked warwick about how they were making the rules and he said they would make them underpowered, and then FAQ them, just to be safe.

The guns count as Heavy, Lance weapons which can be combined, and add one power level per participant. They will be able to move and fire.

ALSO:

The dreadnought stuff was about a MarkIV IronClad model, which looks awesome to be honest, the seismic hammer has an eagle head, and they've also got a hurricane bolter and one other weapon on display, which all looked pretty sexy.

I tell you, I am drooling on the computer screen over those Eldar news.

Love the dreads, and very excited for IA9, 10, and 11. 11 especially, for the Wolf stuff. But the Eldar fans have a lot to be excited about. The Shadow Spectres look great. Thanks to the members sharing pictures.

Looks like the Lynx won't be too hard to kitbash out of a new Prism model- and you'd have enough bitz left to have a go at a Hornet. You could buy 3 Prisms and make 2 of each quite easily. I may have a go at that.

I am a bit disappointed that Warwick will have his jammy copypasta fingers anywhere near new Eldar rules, though. That guy cannot write balanced rules for the life of 'im. Oh well, the inevitable issues will be the sort of thing one can houserule probably.

Really, really stoked to see the power_SWORD_ on the Phantom. That right there is a reason to buy it over the Armorcast model. Looks like I'll be spending the rent money on something else next Christmas.

That Mark IV Dreadnaught looks awesome. From the Forge World update, I have to say that I've never wanted a set of models more than the Red Scorpion Libby and Honour Guard. They look sweeeeet.

Might have to start a RS army now...

Sanguine sons http://sanguinesons.blogspot.com/ made these pics of the model, that was displayed only after the seminar:









Only Aspect warrior completed, more in hte works.

Fun facts:
Hornet was already on sale for the first 30 minutes.
And Will Hayes let one resin prototype of the Eldar titan drop during the show.

why cant they make a dreadnought that wouldnt have to waddle like penguin to walk.....

Jeez guys just give it better legs.

Aspect warrior with a small fire prism? 0_o

So are they just inventing new aspects, or have these always existed?

Also, Carcharodons? So the Space Sharks got a name change? I guess it had to happen. X)

Carcharadon Astra, no less.

As for the Aspects...there's always been no "set" number of them. There's just some that are more popular than others. So it very well could be that the Shadow Spectres are going to be explained an Aspect that guards these Eldar "deep storage" colonies, or that infiltrate human held planets and stalk the settlers to try to scare them off the planet.

Carcharadon Astra, no less.
===
Yes, probably for the best. But they will always be the Space Sharks...in my heart.

midget_overlord wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Finally, some non Tau Jet Packs. Its almost like non Eldar Lance Weapons! bit of a waste of Rulebook Space to have army specific stuff in them

Anyone have pics of the actual resin titan in that there cabinet?

Looks to have more details.

Those specters are the business! Please, FW, don't make totally gak rules for them like usual!

Hopefully GW integrates these into the new codex like they have with other FW items lately.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:On the Badab war front (technically not Games Day but I got mine there today, so I guess it counts), we now know what is likely to be the new moniker for the infamous Space Sharks-Carcharodons. They're mentioned as being in part 2 in the campaign rules.

Can you tell me of any mention of the Exorcists? They have been my favorite chapter since I read the Armageddon3 website piece on them, so I'm a little anxious to see what FW does with them.

Any thing on The Black Library????

I'm dieing right NOW!

hmm shadow aspect warriors i wonder if they will be in the next eldar codex.

IIRC extended scenes from the Ultramarines movie were to be shown. Did anyone happen get anything on this?

sonofruss wrote:got this from warseer drool

Nononononononononono.... Just fething no!!!

Kanluwen wrote:
As for the Aspects...there's always been no "set" number of them. There's just some that are more popular than others. So it very well could be that the Shadow Spectres are going to be explained an Aspect that guards these Eldar "deep storage" colonies, or that infiltrate human held planets and stalk the settlers to try to scare them off the planet.

I spent a while talking to Warwick also he explained quite alot about the new aspect worriers some of which has been covered here, he went on to explain that the concept for these guys is they are a lost aspect their shrines are currently lost or left empty on the craft worlds and that the eldar are trying to rediscover the path of this aspect as it were. They are closely related to the wraith guard and lords they are still living eldar them selves though. He also went on to say they are working on a full 5 man squad with exarch how ever the idea of a phoenix lord is there but they will probably wait to see how things go with the squad plus exarch first. To be honest from the fluff that he described about them so far it makes more sense for them not to have one at least not just yet any way based on the lost aspect idea he talked about.

He also said that they are as most have already said they are long range jetpack tank killers utilising a form of prism rifle the other option was a close combat variation of swooping hawks when they looked at the troop types available to the eldar they felt these were two types they would benefit most from. There wasn't a release window for them as yet he just said they still had to develop the full squad and exarch first then phoenix would probably come later if they did one.

Any way i'll add the two pictures i managed to get of them while i was there

Any idea what slot in the FOC the new aspect will take? It's looking like a toss up between heavy and Fast attack.
I would be really disappointed if they tried to stuff another thing into the heavy support slot.

You know I never thought to ask I guess either could work all he did say was they will be a pretty expensive unit never covered the FOC slot they would take up.

inquisitorfaust wrote:

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:On the Badab war front (technically not Games Day but I got mine there today, so I guess it counts), we now know what is likely to be the new moniker for the infamous Space Sharks-Carcharodons. They're mentioned as being in part 2 in the campaign rules.

Can you tell me of any mention of the Exorcists? They have been my favorite chapter since I read the Armageddon3 website piece on them, so I'm a little anxious to see what FW does with them.

They are in the second Badab book, I too am waiting for them to be fleshed out with (hopefully) some sort of character mini

A new Eldar Aspect? Can the Slicing Orbs be not far behind?!?

Dok wrote:Any idea what slot in the FOC the new aspect will take? It's looking like a toss up between heavy and Fast attack.
I would be really disappointed if they tried to stuff another thing into the heavy support slot.

It's Warwick, guys. They will be overpriced, have some rules copied from the Rogue Trader rulebook, and their Force Org slot will not be specified. Once it is FAQ'ed it will become clear that they take _two_ heavy support slots.

If, in some alternate universe, the guy did any playtesting, he would see they'd do best in an FA slot. He would also take notes on the utter failure of the Dark Reapers in 5th and find some way to avoid the same pitfalls. Jetpack mobility goes a long way to ameliorating the Reaper-style suckfest, so perhaps he's already thinking clearer. Not being Heavy would make them quite palatable. Having something to escape/avoid CC would put the unit into "awesome must have" territory. But enough wishlisting...

@JHDD, ya think that might have been where they were going with the Jetpack assault guys? That's actually a darned cool mechanic. Hope these guys succeed so that we get to see the Orbs some day!

Weren't there two other unexplored but mentioned aspects besides the Slicing Orbs of Zandros or whatever they were called? My poor old brain seems to recall some Charging Bulls and maybe Void Panthers or Stalking Panthers or something... but maybe those are half-cooked conversion ideas that just tumbled out of a dusty corner of my prefrontal cortex.

Love those new Eldar aspects. Good job I'm just starting a new Eldar army, eh?

sonofruss wrote:got this from warseer drool

very sick looking... was hoping for the Ares, but this looks sick, too... a Techmarine Land Raider, maybe?

Reecius wrote:Those specters are the business! Please, FW, don't make totally gak rules for them like usual!

Hopefully GW integrates these into the new codex like they have with other FW items lately.

In regards to rules, the mini-fire prism is a heavy lance, which can combine fire, and move and fire due to the jetpack.

Whne I was speaking to Warwick he stated that they would make them underpowered first, just to be on the safe side, and then make them more powerful in the FAQ.

One of the sculptors (the one on the left of Mark Bedford) said that they have no plans to relalease Thunder armour or MarkII Armour, as they were only largely in use in the age of strfe and the unification of earth, so it doesn't fit in.

Goliath wrote:

Whne I was speaking to Warwick he stated that they would make them underpowered first, just to be on the safe side, and then make them more powerful in the FAQ.

Safe side of what? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Why wouldn't you just design a balanced unit from the start?

plastictrees wrote:Safe side of what? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Why wouldn't you just design a balanced unit from the start?

In the grim darkness of the far future there can only be over powered Space Marine units.

plastictrees wrote:

Goliath wrote:

Whne I was speaking to Warwick he stated that they would make them underpowered first, just to be on the safe side, and then make them more powerful in the FAQ.

Safe side of what? I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Why wouldn't you just design a balanced unit from the start?

Balance is always hard to achieve in so many cases maybe by playing safe they hope to avoid any game breaking mechanics or over powerdness as a result. But that said play testing should really help resolve any rule issues before release.

Can we get the title of this thread changed? I've been through three pages and all it is is Forge World news...

There must of been more than just Forge World at Games Day...

Mick

Love that the Shadow Spectres!

The models are brilliant. They can easily replace the lameness of the Swoop Hawks but different function and give them some troops with anti tank capability, other than Fire Dragons (but limited range) and Reapers (light tanks). Withdraw and Tank Hunter would be good exarch powers for them. Hope they make the guns 24-36 inches assault NOT heavy defeats the whole purpose of having jump packs and not shooting when you land because you moved.

If they make a Phoenix Lord Shadow Spectre,....swoon
I would have to smother them to unconsciousness with my breasts. lol.

Anung Un Rama wrote:That's the Techmarine gun, isn't it?

IIRC it is in fact the "Punisher" cannon from the guard codex, the one with 20 shots.

...so TL MM the transport open, shoot them up with the 20 shot cannon and then assault any survivors.

Ouch !

Disclaimer : it does look like the TF cannon to me too, but people who were there said to the contrary.

reds8n wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:That's the Techmarine gun, isn't it?

IIRC it is in fact the "Punisher" cannon from the guard codex, the one with 20 shots.

...so TL MM the transport open, shoot them up with the 20 shot cannon and then assault any survivors.

Ouch !

Punisher

Thunderfire

Dare I say, that sucker has a Thunderfire on it!

Yeah, you kind of ninjaed my edit there a bit.

Well, just looking at it more closely, the armor panels scream Techmarine, as does the AdMech symbol on the front. Hard to imagine it wouldn't be a TFire.

Are you guys sure the Achilles retains its transport capacity? It just strikes me that whatever weapon the front weapon is its seems too big to retain the normal capcity.

As you can see in the pick there is no front ramp so i am guessing little or no transport capability

Most likely no transport, or smaller transport with no front assault ramp: side doors only.

Savnock wrote:

Dok wrote:Any idea what slot in the FOC the new aspect will take? It's looking like a toss up between heavy and Fast attack.
I would be really disappointed if they tried to stuff another thing into the heavy support slot.

It's Warwick, guys. They will be overpriced, have some rules copied from the Rogue Trader rulebook, and their Force Org slot will not be specified. Once it is FAQ'ed it will become clear that they take _two_ heavy support slots.

If, in some alternate universe, the guy did any playtesting, he would see they'd do best in an FA slot. He would also take notes on the utter failure of the Dark Reapers in 5th and find some way to avoid the same pitfalls. Jetpack mobility goes a long way to ameliorating the Reaper-style suckfest, so perhaps he's already thinking clearer. Not being Heavy would make them quite palatable. Having something to escape/avoid CC would put the unit into "awesome must have" territory. But enough wishlisting...
.

Whereas of course, having merely seen the models no more than a few hours ago, you have thoroughly playtested them, without knowing points or abilities etc. Gotcha.

Actually Mystery, he's going on FW's track record with rules.

And that's not a good track record by any means...

Thats what I was thinking, either no transport or its the razorback of landraiders. I'm going more with no transport. That would make this closer to a marine battle tank. No matter what weapon that is, I think it would a be a justifiable evolution of that layout to switch out the gun with a demolisher or battle cannon.

I certainly hope its not a punsiher, a thunderfire makes more sense.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually Mystery, he's going on FW's track record with rules.

And that's not a good track record by any means...

It's more his insistence that they should be Fast Attack, just because he says so.

It also might be because the Eldar HS section is really quite packed.

Meh. We shall see what they are like when they come out.

Me, I'm still perving over the Dark Kin...mmmmm...

aka_mythos wrote:I certainly hope its not a punsiher, a thunderfire makes more sense.

An artillery piece on a fixed mounting with (seemingly) no ability to traverse up or down? Makes about as much sense as the Land Raider Confused (ie. Helios).

I go agree about the "no transport" thing though. Or heavily reduced and no assault ramp at the very least.

I hope it's not the punisher, too, friggin' Marines need to stop attempting to steal everyone else's equipment.

Any hints on next year's stuff? GK/Necs/Sisters/Tau?

@ Mr. HBMC.. you need to be buying the Badad War ASAP anyway.. you'll have a blast.. with all your floorplans... and Space Hulk tiles...

I'm still quite willing to stand behind existing guesses as to the next few releases.

Wow, about the panel, pre-heresy dreads and a possible IA with Iron Hands. I'm kind of glad this is the far future, I might have money then! The Badab War books sound great, war machines eh? I can hardly afford the decals! Time to get my life on track!

I love the looks of the small arms (flamer, melta) under the body instead of being underslung to the arms.. makes it look more BattleMech-style
(Not sure about weapon destroyed results, though...)


Land Raider Achilles: I'm sure no transport capacity at all, Ares had similar weapon loadout and no capacity...


YAY! Finally something for necrons... I hope for Imperial Armour 12: Necrons vs Inquisition...

Goliath wrote:

Reecius wrote:Those specters are the business! Please, FW, don't make totally gak rules for them like usual!

Hopefully GW integrates these into the new codex like they have with other FW items lately.

In regards to rules, the mini-fire prism is a heavy lance, which can combine fire, and move and fire due to the jetpack.

Whne I was speaking to Warwick he stated that they would make them underpowered first, just to be on the safe side, and then make them more powerful in the FAQ.

One of the sculptors (the one on the left of Mark Bedford) said that they have no plans to relalease Thunder armour or MarkII Armour, as they were only largely in use in the age of strfe and the unification of earth, so it doesn't fit in.

how could they not release mark 2 armor when it is already on their site? unless you mean mark 8?

Melissia wrote:Any hints on next year's stuff? GK/Necs/Sisters/Tau?

Based on a few things Jes said at Games Day, I have a theory that Jes is already working on the Sisters of Battle.

Exhibit A:

Hypaspist wrote:Also, whilst talking to Jes, I overhears someone ask him If he was going to do The Eldar next... He said (roughly remembered) that barring the rest of this range he was "All Eldar'd out" and that he had another project on the go.. and then smiled mischeviously.

Exhibits B and C:

Dio´Ra wrote:Funny thing when I mentioned to Jes that GW should produce more female models and then he said that women have no place in fighting battles and war, and suggested that I wanted to see more female models only because of some crazy miniature kink :cries:

Dio´Ra wrote:He had his serious face on (maybe tired face) when he was accusing me of having some weird kink for more female models, but I could hear Phil laughing in the background when he made the remark, so yeah just joshing around....I hope!

Hard to believe from someone who did such beautiful female sculpts, the best female heads in ages!

Seeing as he was at an official event to talk about his work, I think it's safe to say he wouldn't commit such a serious PR blunder as to genuinely insult people in this way, at least without some lackey apologising to Dio on behalf of the company, and his work on the Bretonnians, Eschers, Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar suggests he doesn't hold these opinions anyway.

Therefore, I think he was covering for the nature of the other project, in a way that strongly suggests that women fighting in battles and war is a vital component: Sisters of Battle.

That is a thunderfire in the Achilles, didnt think to ask about transport capacity though

From the look of it, either none or 6 models (like the Helios). Id be more inclined to say none though.#

Also, the resin phantom (in the cabinet) only has the legs finished

Savnock wrote:
He would also take notes on the utter failure of the Dark Reapers in 5th and find some way to avoid the same pitfalls.

This is hilarious to me. If you want to discuss this further, let's head over to the Tactics forum and discuss why this statement is made of fail.

You do realize that Eldar aren't space marines right? They're not supposed to fill every role on the battlefield. That's what makes them a unique and challenging army. I have wonderful success with Dark Reapers - because they fill a role I have taken them to fill. But, I digress.

Back to the topic. . .

Savnock wrote:@JHDD, ya think that might have been where they were going with the Jetpack assault guys? That's actually a darned cool mechanic. Hope these guys succeed so that we get to see the Orbs some day!

Weren't there two other unexplored but mentioned aspects besides the Slicing Orbs of Zandros or whatever they were called? My poor old brain seems to recall some Charging Bulls and maybe Void Panthers or Stalking Panthers or something... but maybe those are half-cooked conversion ideas that just tumbled out of a dusty corner of my prefrontal cortex.

I hope so - we've been waiting for these longer than Dark Eldars...

Yeah, there are others, just that the Slicing Orbs are the best known of the minor Aspects.

I'm still hoping for a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord too!

Alpharius wrote:I'm still hoping for a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord too!

Kinda had a nerdgasm just thinking about it...

Scottywan82 wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I'm still hoping for a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord too!

Kinda had a nerdgasm just thinking about it...

what would his name be? Ifefari - The Watcher in the Void?

Needs more Harlequin exarch.

Those new Eldar... I think I'm in love.

So, I assume the Hornet can be taken in squads and is a Fast Attack.

Looks like Mechdar may be playable without the suicidal Fire Dragons.

Mr Mystery wrote:

Savnock wrote:

Dok wrote:Any idea what slot in the FOC the new aspect will take? It's looking like a toss up between heavy and Fast attack.
I would be really disappointed if they tried to stuff another thing into the heavy support slot.

It's Warwick, guys. They will be overpriced, have some rules copied from the Rogue Trader rulebook, and their Force Org slot will not be specified. Once it is FAQ'ed it will become clear that they take _two_ heavy support slots.

If, in some alternate universe, the guy did any playtesting, he would see they'd do best in an FA slot. He would also take notes on the utter failure of the Dark Reapers in 5th and find some way to avoid the same pitfalls. Jetpack mobility goes a long way to ameliorating the Reaper-style suckfest, so perhaps he's already thinking clearer. Not being Heavy would make them quite palatable. Having something to escape/avoid CC would put the unit into "awesome must have" territory. But enough wishlisting...
.

Whereas of course, having merely seen the models no more than a few hours ago, you have thoroughly playtested them, without knowing points or abilities etc. Gotcha.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually Mystery, he's going on FW's track record with rules.

And that's not a good track record by any means...

It's more his insistence that they should be Fast Attack, just because he says so.

It also might be because the Eldar HS section is really quite packed.

Bingo. Witness the recent "crickets" reaction to the Shadow Spinner or whateveryoucallit. Shoehorned into the already overcompetitive HS slot, and simply not as good as 3/4 of the stuff already in there. Fail!

For the basic codex, it's kind of an understandable issue to have packed slots. It's the same issue that, say, Tyranids have with competition for their elite slots. It's gotta be hard for the initial codex writers to get perspective about some of that stuff, and just to fit all the awesome into a good list- so it's pretty understandable for a codex to have some slots overburdened with goodies. But an aftermarket series like FW should have the benefit of perspective and time to see what the list could use to make it more fun, and how to avoid worsening existing congestion. Further packing overburdened slots is a failure of construction/imagination.

And Mystery, have you ever _read_ a FW book? Perhaps you missed the completely unplayable rules for at least 25% of the units. My favorite is the DKOK Death Rider Company apoc formation. Costs 25 points, makes you clump them up. No special rules or benefit included for the formation, which seemed like another editing oversight. Then Warwick FAQed it... to have no special rules. You pay 25 points for the privilege of calling it a Death Rider Company. Seriously.

That shadow spectre is really freaking cool, make me want to save up for IA: 11!

Has anyone read about the new characters in IA: 9 yet? Curious if there is anything neat/different with them.

puma713 wrote:

Savnock wrote:
He would also take notes on the utter failure of the Dark Reapers in 5th and find some way to avoid the same pitfalls.

This is hilarious to me. If you want to discuss this further, let's head over to the Tactics forum and discuss why this statement is made of fail.

Uh, yeah. I'll take that one. See you over there. In fact, I'll be happy to give a demo in person. You go to tourneys? Show up with a list including Reapers to Adepticon. After the peanut gallery is done laughing, let's have a game. I'd give Blackmoor odds using Reapers, but having read his battle reports I'd give Blackmoor odds using Wraithguard and CSM possessed with blindfolds on. Reapers blow, and even skillful players will have an uphill battle using them.

And if you don't do tourneys, I'd be happy to play a Vassal game against you sometime (friendly invite, all boardsnarkery aside).

You do realize that Eldar aren't space marines right? They're not supposed to fill every role on the battlefield. That's what makes them a unique and challenging army. I have wonderful success with Dark Reapers - because they fill a role I have taken them to fill. But, I digress.

Matching your statement, I will summarize the faults that are obvious for Reapers. Immobile T3 infantry unit that costs 35 points/wound. Far outmatched by Prisms, which compete for the same Force Org slot. Dude, everyone knows this. Attempting to salvage a fail unit will not make you look like a more skillfull player. It makes you look like one who frequently brings knives to a gunfight.

Back on-topic:

What does everyone think the odds of that Achilles extra armor being available separately are?

And yeah, this is definitely a FW rumors thread now. But the sheer preponderance of radness that they showed off makes it that way. Maybe if Black Library had announced a 2'x3' print book of famous starlets posing as partially-nude daemonettes with text by Dan Abnett, they _might_ be worthy of similar attention. Maybe.

Savnock wrote:If, in some alternate universe, the guy did any playtesting, he would see they'd do best in an FA slot.

And you're basing this on what? the fact that it looks like it is moving?

They are armed with HEAVY, VEHICLE KILLING LANCES, they aren't fast, but they can move and shoot.

Warwick himself said that they were jetpacks with heavy guns, he even made a joke about 100 of them blowing up a planet, including explosion sond effect.

That soesn't sound like fast attack does it?

Goliath wrote:

Savnock wrote:If, in some alternate universe, the guy did any playtesting, he would see they'd do best in an FA slot.

And you're basing this on what? the fact that it looks like it is moving?

They are armed with HEAVY, VEHICLE KILLING LANCES, they aren't fast, but they can move and shoot.

Warwick himself said that they were jetpacks with heavy guns, he even made a joke about 100 of them blowing up a planet, including explosion sond effect.

That soesn't sound like fast attack does it?

Aesthetically, you are totally right.

Gameplay, though? There's just too much in HS already. It'd be like giving the Tyranids another elite. And they would make okay FA, as they are jetpack troops. They're about as mobile as Hawks, considering their assault move.

If they want to get used, they need to go in FA. Sure you use them in APoc or house rule a 4-heavy allowance. But such beautiful models would be nice to use in regular 40K without hamstringing yourself.

Savnock wrote:to have no special rules. You pay 25 points for the privilege of calling it a Death Rider Company. Seriously.

Yeah, but this also means that all of those units in that formation count as a single choice for determining the arrival of your reserves does it not ?

reds8n wrote:

Savnock wrote:to have no special rules. You pay 25 points for the privilege of calling it a Death Rider Company. Seriously.

Yeah, but this also means that all of those units in that formation count as a single choice for determining the arrival of your reserves does it not ?

True. Not worth the clumping effect in exchange for no goodies, though. Not with 10" templates all over. But check out the Imperial Roughrider Company sheet. 75 points more- and you get Flank March, Skilled Rider and extra attacks for charging.

But that's a balance issue. My point is that you buy FW books to see cool stuff, and you pay a lot for them. Crappy rules and glaring editing mistakes have no place in such a highly-produced book. It's pretty disappointing. Kinrade is by all accounts a great guy, and his enthusiasm is obvious. Hell, his fluff is great too. But would it KILL them to let an editor fix the obvious errors before publishing? Or to put even a modicum of thought into rules function, other than intentionally underpointing things to "avoid overpowering them"?

FW has three "editors", but they have other jobs to go with the editing.

Savnock wrote:
True. Not worth the clumping effect in exchange for no goodies, though. Not with 10" templates all over...

But that's a balance issue. My point is that you buy FW books to see cool stuff, and you pay a lot for them. Crappy rules and glaring editing mistakes have no place in such a highly-produced book...

I think if you care so much about balance and point worth, Apocalypse wasn't designed for you.

I agree on the bad editing and poor rules. The thing is, it isn't that highly produced. Just because its as pricey as it is doesn't mean it gets any more attention to editing, it doesn't mean it should be regarded as any sort of collectors item. These books cost has as much to do with the lower volume as it is the "quality."

Ok, this is all veeery sexy

AlexHolker wrote:Based on a few things Jes said at Games Day, I have a theory that Jes is already working on the Sisters of Battle.[snip]

Awesome, good to hear.

Goliath wrote:

Reecius wrote:One of the sculptors (the one on the left of Mark Bedford) said that they have no plans to relalease Thunder armour or MarkII Armour, as they were only largely in use in the age of strfe and the unification of earth, so it doesn't fit in.

GRRR! Gorgon is angered!!!


Ah well. Kinda of expected it.

New aspect looks nice. Sounds like no Ad Mech in sight though, which disappoints me a bit. Although now that I think about it, FW is saving me a lot of cash with these announcements.

gorgon wrote:

Goliath wrote:

Reecius wrote:One of the sculptors (the one on the left of Mark Bedford) said that they have no plans to relalease Thunder armour or MarkII Armour, as they were only largely in use in the age of strfe and the unification of earth, so it doesn't fit in.

GRRR! Gorgon is angered!!!


Ah well. Kinda of expected it.

Again, where GW fears to tread you KNOW Maxmini, Chapterhouse, and Scibor will pick up the slack (and the cash). Thunder armor body variants? Yes please! Right after truescale Marine kits, that is.

Alpharius wrote:I'm still hoping for a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord too!

don't forget the shining spears phoenix lord as well

Savnock wrote:

puma713 wrote:

This is hilarious to me. If you want to discuss this further, let's head over to the Tactics forum and discuss why this statement is made of fail.

Uh, yeah. I'll take that one. See you over there. In fact, I'll be happy to give a demo in person. You go to tourneys? Show up with a list including Reapers to Adepticon. After the peanut gallery is done laughing, let's have a game.

My third round opponent took the same stance in 'ard Boyz. He forfeited before we finished the game. He actually did laugh at my list. Verbatim: "You take reapers!?" Then I proceeded to beat his face in with my two static units of reapers. Yes, I go to tournies. Yes, I'd take Reapers in any Eldar list I'm playing, even fast moving ones. Although, I've had even more success with them now-a-days playing Footdar. Again, your myopic point-of-view is similar to that of the BoLS article writers: Eldar are a static army and if you take x, y or z, you're asking to lose. The contrary, I'd say that Eldar are one of the most dynamic armies and you can shift focus from certain units onto other ones quite easily. In the last tournament I played in, I lost 3 reapers - the entire tournament. Why? Because there were other threats people were dealing with. The reapers didn't pose as much of a threat as other things I had. But, the reapers 10 Str. 5, AP3 from 48" away paid for themselves in every game.

Before you're certain that your experiences equate to the experiences of every Eldar player in the world, maybe you should consider others' points of view and perhaps realize that they're different from yours and from those of people that tell you what's good and what isn't.

Savnock wrote:Reapers blow, and even skillful players will have an uphill battle using them.

This is a gross overgeneralization. How many skilled players have you played in the world? 10? 20? 50? 100? Enough, I assume, to get a good general concensus of what every skilled player across all playstyles thinks of Reapers. Your comment is pretentious and rude. I am a skilled player and I do take reapers. Because you don't see their worth, doesn't mean others don't. Stop thinking inside the box that powergamers and netlists tell you you should be thinking in.

Savnock wrote:

You do realize that Eldar aren't space marines right? They're not supposed to fill every role on the battlefield. That's what makes them a unique and challenging army. I have wonderful success with Dark Reapers - because they fill a role I have taken them to fill. But, I digress.

Matching your statement, I will summarize the faults that are obvious for Reapers. Immobile T3 infantry unit that costs 35 points/wound. Far outmatched by Prisms, which compete for the same Force Org slot. Dude, everyone knows this.

Yep, which is why the Reapers work so well for me, I suppose. No one is ready for them. Everyone is ready for Fire Prisms. In the 5th Ed. world of mech, seeing very little mech can be an unsettling thing.

Attempting to salvage a fail unit will not make you look like a more skillfull player. It makes you look like one who frequently brings knives to a gunfight.

These kinds of statements are what keep new players from trying new lists and trying new things. Perhaps also the reason that you see thirty of the same army build at a tournament because some guy on some forum on the internet said that x, y, z unit was the win! I feel like I'm talking to a WoW powergamer Guild. Don't spec ice/arcane! Fire is the win! Ice is the fail! Please. Spec the way you want. Field what you want in 40K. Don't remove reapers because some guy tells you "everyone says they suck!". That's fine. You can tell me they suck. It won't stop them from shredding through the MEQ that's trying to hack its way through my Harlequins/Dragons/Avatar, etc. trying to get to them.

Sorry for the derail, OP.

Edit: Also, the e-peen measuring, "My list could beat up your list" challenging is amusing too. Even if I did "meet" you at a tournament to play and you tabled me - it wouldn't change my opinion on reapers. I've been using them for years with great success. And I've lost before. It's not something that is new or shocking or appalling or makes me question my inner core. I would question the rest of my list before I did the Reapers.

puma713 wrote:

...Your comment is pretentious and rude. I am a skilled player and I do take reapers....

..rawr, rawr rawr, etc. etc. etc.

Wow. Major misunderstand there. Perhaps your snarkometer is miscalibrated. Welcome to Dakka. This is how we discuss. A certain amount of good-natured smacktalk is forum standard. Please down-adjust your sensitivity levels and enjoy the camaraderie of strident disagreement. My statements will not "discourage new players" and should certainly not offend an experienced player. They are discussion, that's all- just like most of the posts on this forum. Agree to disagree, bud.

The "e-peen" challenge was neither rude nor pretentious: it was a sporting challenge. I'd be happy to play you in either tourney or Vassal format. Playing toy soldiers tends to dispel ridiculous interwebs disagreements quickly.

Back on Reapers (and thus kinda relating to the Spectres, and thus vaguely OT): You're right, a good player can use any unit to do okay. Reapers can fit in a certain playstyle, especially in friendlies. That's why I mentioned Blackmoor, who does well with a mixed footdar that most Eldar players find impossible to keep alive. I maintain, and most Eldar players will probably back me, that static high-price infantry are an easy target, and that 5th ed. really favors hordes of mech.

Yes, mech-free can be refreshing. And great, you've used it well. As I have used Prisms to wipe out units of Reapers reap-etedly (pun intended). Anecdotal evidence from one of your games (or mine) does not prove anything. In fact, it's sort of futile to attempt to prove anything in an internet discussion. What is not futile is playing games against each other and seeing how things turn out (aka playtesting). Mathhammer can also come in somewhat handy when discussing this stuff, rather than strident disagreement. Against most of the competitive builds out there, I'm guessing mathhammer favors the Prisms on both survivability and hitting power- especially in a list with 8-10 other identical hulls on the table. Should we really hash this out on the tactics forums, it would be good to corral one of the mathharmmer geeks to help us.

Anyways, what we do NOT need is another Heavy Support choice for Eldar. And most of the FA choices are marginal at best (yes Spiders are okay, but if anyone starts whiteknighting Hawks I give up). Spectres are very mobile jetpack units packing firepower probably not superior to what a Vyper with EML/SC throws out. So putting them in FA would be a good idea.

Can I ask a slightly tangential question:


Does every Aspect need a Phoenix Lord?


In my mind - and I might be wrong here - the Phoenix Lords represent the first of the first Aspect Shrines ('cept Karandras, because Arhra was first), and that there weren't any Warp Spider/Shining Spear/Slicing Orb/Leaping Marshmellow Phoenix Lords because they weren't old enough to have them.

Is this not correct?



Oh, and make War Walkers Fast Attack. That would be a nice change and stop HS from being so clogged up.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Can I ask a slightly tangential question:


Does every Aspect need a Phoenix Lord?


In my mind - and I might be wrong here - the Phoenix Lords represent the first of the first Aspect Shrines ('cept Karandras, because Arhra was first), and that there weren't any Warp Spider/Shining Spear/Slicing Orb/Leaping Marshmellow Phoenix Lords because they weren't old enough to have them.

Is this not correct?

That's basically my take. Most Phoenix Lords are aspect founders, but not all aspect founders are Phoenix Lords. To become a Phoenix Lord you have to be nigh unto a creature of legend. The Slicing Orbs of Zandros may be an old aspect, but they aren't very popular and their exarchs simply haven't accumulated the generations of experience and legends needed to embody their aspect as completely as the Phoenix Lords do.

Oh, and make War Walkers Fast Attack. That would be a nice change and stop HS from being so clogged up.

I could go with that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Can I ask a slightly tangential question:


Does every Aspect need a Phoenix Lord?


In my mind - and I might be wrong here - the Phoenix Lords represent the first of the first Aspect Shrines ('cept Karandras, because Arhra was first), and that there weren't any Warp Spider/Shining Spear/Slicing Orb/Leaping Marshmellow Phoenix Lords because they weren't old enough to have them.

Is this not correct?

That's my understanding of the set up.

Oh, and make War Walkers Fast Attack. That would be a nice change and stop HS from being so clogged up.

Agreed.

Or maybe even make them a support unit for units of Guardians/aspect warriors/whatever. So you can buy a unit of 1-3 of them for each Guardian squad you have or similar.

By my understanding the founder of an Aspect is the Phoenix Lord for that Aspect (notable exception being Arhra/Karandras who took over following that minor hiccup) which means by definition every Aspect has a Phoenix Lord. I always thought the whole 'not old enough to have a PL' argument was more to do with GW not wanting to do a PL for that particular Aspect (for whatever reason). There is no real reason why they can't add PL's for the Aspects currently missing them if they decide to and given the changes that 40k design ethos has undergone since the last Eldar update I almost expect the next Eldar codex to have Phoenix Lords for every Aspect. In the case of Forgeworld there is an added complication. They generally do a leader type character for many of their units, usually at least one per side per book, but a standard Exarch isn't really going to work (due to the trapped in the Path thing among others) which means making new Phoenix Lords if you are doing a Aspect character. Aside from maybe a unique Autarch character pretty much all the other leader options are well are truly covered by GW and Forgeworld already (they have ruled out Jetbike characters for the moment I think).

Somewhat off topic, but I'm hoping for War Walkers move to Fast Attack with enclosed/bigger weapon type options to move them to back to Heavy. Vypers should be upgrade options for Jetbike units (as well as being available as separate units). They could possibly change to being Attack Bike style multi wound heavy weapon platforms but I expect the Venom to show up in the Eldar codex as well so I'm not sure how that would work (having a multi wound model and a transport vehicle both based off the same chassis in the same army would be incredibly confusing).

Powerguy, I think 40k, like most fantasy from Tolkien onwards, obeys the general 'older is better' idea. Part of why the phoenix lords are the Phoenix Lords is that they've been around for successive lifetimes. So presumably if new ones were introduced, the writers would replace the previous background and say that there had been 8-9 or whatever all along.

I agree with both comments, that war walkers should be fast attack and that vypers should be available to jetbike units as upgrades. At any rate they need some sort of points break or rules change, currently they're too fragile to justify their points cost. At BS3, and without any of the most destructive weapons that you usually see taken on SM landspeeders (which are all-around better units, pisses me off) they aren't great now.

I think dark reapers can be very good. Although they get killed more easily than a vehicle, and cost more, there's no denying that especially with a tempest launcher exarch they go through marines like a dose of laxative. No other eldar unit can really equal them in that area. I can see how taking plenty of tank cracking options in troops/elites, and including 2 units of reapers, could be a viable strategy.

Yeah I realise that, among other examples the Eldar have been on the decline since the Fall and the Imperium still looks backwards for new technology rather than forwards. The Phoenix Lords in the codex are obviously the founders of their respective aspects, and as such older and more widespread Aspects are represented. All I'm saying is that by my understanding the founder of each Aspect is a Phoenix Lord and as such there is nothing really stopping GW adding the missing ones in if they decide to. Certainly the Phoenix Lords for these Aspects might not be as powerful as the founding group (Asurmen etc) but that doesn't mean they won't be powerful warriors in their own right. From a fluff perspective you can justify them being missing from the current codex because of this (less of their Aspect so less likely to show up, possibly not as strong as the other main aspect PL's etc) but equally you could also say that GW just didn't put the effort into designing (rules wise and model wise) and fleshing out the background for these aspects in the update from 3rd to 4th.

Back up topic though, I quite like the idea of these Shadow Spectres tbh. There are still quite a few gaps in the Aspect range as far as specialisations go and long ranged anti tank is certainly one of them (and one which is very important in this edition). I don't have any real issue with them being Heavy though actually despite the crowding in that slot. I'm not expecting them to be jump packs, more likely to be jet packs ala Tau, so they won't be particularly mobile. It lets Dark Reapers become the long ranged infantry killers and the Spectres can be the long ranged vehicle killers. Ignoring the fact that the both struggle atm, both Banshees and Scorpions have existed in the Elites slot for a while with a similar kind of specialised focus (which is what Eldar is all about after all).

Assuming you aim to cover everything, from a gameplay perspective that leaves a close range shooting anti infantry aspect (to complement Fire Dragons, Avengers are supposed to be allrounders), a pilot/vehicle based aspect (a bit hard to represent), a psychic aspect (really this is Warlocks but they need fleshing out) and perhaps a slower heavy assault aspect (the opposite of Shining Spears but they overlap a bit with Scorpions). So far we have seen a couple of new units in pretty much every 5th edition codex, so I'm hoping to see at least some of this next time Eldar role around.

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2010/09/27/games-day-2010-report/

Little report there.

..5,000 attendees eh ...? Hmm..

I find it amusing that that article states "Of course, it was the announcements being made about the Ultramarines movie and games that were of the most interest"

I know that the article has a footnote that states that it was written by a wargamer, but really? Surely the DE would have been considered the most important new release.

hehe, nerdragers in the comments section "Beyond this there were the usual displays of concept art and the like, which while interesting were much the same as in previous years."

Yeah... Sure...

@Goliath - geez, not everybody plays Dark Eldars, but surely everybody is interested in Moar Spaz Marinz! HURR!!!

Im still looking for Golden Demon pics besides the ones on the GW site!

And JHDD, not everybody plays DE.... yet

Til the next flavor of the day comes along anyhoos

OoieGoie wrote:

I always hear "ka-ching$" when I hear "Forge World".

I always hear " awe-sum" when I hear FW...

Savnock wrote:

Wow. Major misunderstand there. Perhaps your snarkometer is miscalibrated. Welcome to Dakka. This is how we discuss. A certain amount of good-natured smacktalk is forum standard. Please down-adjust your sensitivity levels and enjoy the camaraderie of strident disagreement. My statements will not "discourage new players" and should certainly not offend an experienced player. They are discussion, that's all- just like most of the posts on this forum. Agree to disagree, bud.

True, but to say, 'You will get laughed at, then I'll show you why your choices are poor.' (not in so many words) is not a measure of the camaraderie of a strident disagreement. It's more of a measure of 'I'm right, you're wrong.' Which is not a discussion for either of us. I suppose I took the same stance, which will got both our points-of-view and the argument nowhere. Most of your statements didn't offend me - it's how you wrote them that was offensive. Hence, I do agree to disagree.

Savnock wrote:
What is not futile is playing games against each other and seeing how things turn out (aka playtesting). Mathhammer can also come in somewhat handy when discussing this stuff, rather than strident disagreement. Against most of the competitive builds out there, I'm guessing mathhammer favors the Prisms on both survivability and hitting power- especially in a list with 8-10 other identical hulls on the table. Should we really hash this out on the tactics forums, it would be good to corral one of the mathharmmer geeks to help us.

Again, I'd agree with you here. Unfortunately, mathhammer doesn't take multitudes of factors into account and is, therefore, hypothetical at best. As you said, playtesting (which apparently we've both done with opposite results) is the best way to glean any information from a discussion such as this. But, I disagree that one game versus you will prove much of anything. If I win, it doesn't prove much about reapers or my history with them. If you win, it doesn't prove much about the opposite. What would prove the mettle between the two, I guess, would be a three-game neutral tournament against varied lists. That would provide the proof in the pudding, I think.

Savnock wrote:Anyways, what we do NOT need is another Heavy Support choice for Eldar. And most of the FA choices are marginal at best (yes Spiders are okay, but if anyone starts whiteknighting Hawks I give up). Spectres are very mobile jetpack units packing firepower probably not superior to what a Vyper with EML/SC throws out. So putting them in FA would be a good idea.

And now, we're going to start agreeing with the topic at hand. I agree - we don't need another Heavy Support choice. A start would be to move the Warwalkers into the FA slot (imo) as well as what you're suggesting. I don't use or like Vypers particularly, so I can't comment on them, but there definitely needs to be some shifting in the Eldar FOC for the next Codex, and I'm sure there will be.

Alpharius wrote:I love that Phantom, but IF I'm ever insane and/or wealthy enough to buy one... I'm holding out for the Warlock version!

Agreed - I've got the (very similar, at least at this stage) Armorcast version, so will definitely be waiting for the Warlock.

My only gripe at the moment with this prototype Phantom is the "hands" incorporated into the weapon - perhaps only a "style" thing to tie in to the current wraithlord, but I really don't belieive it's necessary in a Titan.

Padre^.

What if they get an itch in the wraith cup? Fingers could come in handy...

gorgon wrote:

Goliath wrote:

Reecius wrote:One of the sculptors (the one on the left of Mark Bedford) said that they have no plans to relalease Thunder armour or MarkII Armour, as they were only largely in use in the age of strfe and the unification of earth, so it doesn't fit in.

GRRR! Gorgon is angered!!!


Ah well. Kinda of expected it.

New aspect looks nice. Sounds like no Ad Mech in sight though, which disappoints me a bit. Although now that I think about it, FW is saving me a lot of cash with these announcements.

But look on the bright side Gorgon... When you finally get around to converting your Thunder Armor army, then you'll have an absolutely unique one!

Or at least until I catch up with you!

Valete,

JohnS

H.B.M.C. wrote:Can I ask a slightly tangential question:


Does every Aspect need a Phoenix Lord?


In my mind - and I might be wrong here - the Phoenix Lords represent the first of the first Aspect Shrines ('cept Karandras, because Arhra was first), and that there weren't any Warp Spider/Shining Spear/Slicing Orb/Leaping Marshmellow Phoenix Lords because they weren't old enough to have them.

Is this not correct?



Oh, and make War Walkers Fast Attack. That would be a nice change and stop HS from being so clogged up.

Actually, according to the current Eldar Codex, it implies that there might be more than one Phoenix Lord per aspect. It merely states that they are extremely ancient exarchs, who have been incarnated over and over and are not bound to a particular shrine.

The Asurya are those Phoenix Lords who were the first of the Aspect Warriors and initiated the path of the warrior.

And yeah, Warwalkers = FA fo sho.

Did anyone that attended hear of when those new Brass icons were planned for release?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:I certainly hope its not a punsiher, a thunderfire makes more sense.

An artillery piece on a fixed mounting with (seemingly) no ability to traverse up or down? Makes about as much sense as the Land Raider Confused (ie. Helios).

I think the gun looks as if it could traverse at least about 35 degrees elevation. Its not fixed its just mounted in a recess, with its carriage internal. Its not a turret weapon, but if its more artillery it really doesn't need to be. Much more elevation and it'd be a howitzer and not a cannon; if it were a thunderfire "cannon" than it shouldn't need to elevate more.

If its a punisher, it doesn't make sense, since a weapon like that has to be able to strafe for effectiveness and it would run into bigger problems being hull mounted than any artillery.

Why am I quoted as putting that on there?

Anyways...I've got a sneaking suspicion we'll be seeing the Land Raider Achilles as a creation of the Carcharadons, who in their original "Space Shark" incarnation, are supposed to be pretty damned good at siege warfare and cityfighting.

Makes a certain kind of sense that they came up with the Land Raider Achilles, which looks like it'd do a great job as a siege vehicle breaking through Huron's defenses.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I'm still hoping for a Warp Spider Phoenix Lord too!

don't forget the shining spears phoenix lord as well

I'm sad to admit - I did!

But I'[m glad YOU didn't!

So, yes, that one too!

Come on Slicing Orbs squad plus exarch with Phoenix Lord at a later date

It would definitely make sense to see the shadow aspect as a heavy support choice with a re-organization of the codex. But as it stand and as several people have pointed out, it is the most bloated section of the book besides HQ. (Gogo useless 7/10 HQ choices.) Hopefully FW will recognize that it will be unlikely for people to field them as HS with no CW Eldar codex on the horizon.

Or... If they are really as under-powered as they are suggesting, maybe they will be troops and we could have a choice that is barely competitive with a DE warrior squad

Kanluwen wrote:Carcharadon Astra, no less.

As for the Aspects...there's always been no "set" number of them. There's just some that are more popular than others. So it very well could be that the Shadow Spectres are going to be explained an Aspect that guards these Eldar "deep storage" colonies, or that infiltrate human held planets and stalk the settlers to try to scare them off the planet.

How do you say Sheppard in eldar?

Seeing as I'm about to strip and repaint my old eldar, no harm in a hornet or 2 and some of those aspect warriors

I keep looking at the LR Achilles and in all honesty it does resemble a certain world war 2 tank.



Seeing as how this sturm tiger is designed to blow bunkers up by firing point blank at them with it's massive short barreled artillery piece I can assume that the Achilles when it's released with it's twin linked multi meltas and Thunderfire cannon is pretty much designed to do the same thing. After all the Badab war if I remember is one massive seige battle

Trevak Dal wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Carcharadon Astra, no less.

As for the Aspects...there's always been no "set" number of them. There's just some that are more popular than others. So it very well could be that the Shadow Spectres are going to be explained an Aspect that guards these Eldar "deep storage" colonies, or that infiltrate human held planets and stalk the settlers to try to scare them off the planet.

How do you say Sheppard in eldar?

Crap he's in chest high cover we're doomed there no way we can kill him.