@Cheesecat - Most of The Jimi Hendrix Experience were British. That said, it would be absolutely RIDICULOUS to try and downplay the contribution of the USA to popular music. Really ridiculous.
Albatross wrote:@Cheesecat - Most of The Jimi Hendrix Experience were British. That said, it would be absolutely RIDICULOUS to try and downplay the contribution of the USA to popular music. Really ridiculous.
Like, really.
Yeah when it come to music you don't feth with USA and/or England. Canada just looks like a joke compared to them.
Albatross wrote:@Cheesecat - Most of The Jimi Hendrix Experience were British. That said, it would be absolutely RIDICULOUS to try and downplay the contribution of the USA to popular music. Really ridiculous.
Like, really.
Yeah when it come to music you don't feth with USA and/or England. Canada just looks like a joke compared to them.
WOAH there, little buddy! You guys have Neil fething YOUNG! And Joni Mitchell!!!
Just those two are better than pretty much all of the artists produced by every other country (apart from the UK and USA) put together.
Don't put Canada down, man. As far as I'm concerned, Canadians are awesome and I will fight anyone who says different!
Albatross wrote:@Cheesecat - Most of The Jimi Hendrix Experience were British. That said, it would be absolutely RIDICULOUS to try and downplay the contribution of the USA to popular music. Really ridiculous.
Like, really.
Yeah when it come to music you don't feth with USA and/or England. Canada just looks like a joke compared to them.
WOAH there, little buddy! You guys have Neil fething YOUNG! And Joni Mitchell!!!
Just those two are better than pretty much all of the artists produced by every other country (apart from the UK and USA) put together.
Don't put Canada down, man. As far as I'm concerned, Canadians are awesome and I will fight anyone who says different!
Americans who are going to answer this question should go by their state, not America as a whole, since the states are closer in equivalence to the nations of Europe, while America is more like the European Union. But me, I'm going to limit myself to my hometown.
Long before Grunge, Seattle gave the world the awesomeness that is the Wilson sisters, Ann and Nancy. Better known as Heart:
As one might imagine from the Experience Music Project and the mutliple statutes of him in the city, we're all quite proud of native son Jimi Hendrix:
And I'd be remiss if I didn't post at least one song from the band that provided the soundtrack to high school for me (hint: it was Nirvana):
Oh, and one more that's from a band hardly anyone outside of Seattle will have heard of -- experimental, psychedelic noise-jazz fusion band Critters Buggin.
Gailbraithe wrote:Oh, and one more that's from a band hardly anyone outside of Seattle will have heard of -- experimental, psychedelic noise-jazz fusion band Critters Buggin.
You're from Seattle and you didn't mention Metal Church, I'm ashamed.
If you're going to mention Front Line Assembly, or any of Bill leeb's thousand other projects, you have to mention Skinny Puppy, where he got his start. SP has to be one of the single most influential bands to ever come out of Canada.
Canada's Sarah Mclachlan also deserves a mention, not only because of how good she is, but also because of her huge influence in the music industry. She also worked with Bill Leeb on the first Delerium album, so there's that connection too.
Skinny puppy is also good. Bill leeb was great when I used to do a radio show at college. Because of the CRTC we had to play a number of canadian songs in an hour, so with his many side projects we could really be playing the same guy and call it different music. If I got tired of that I could always play stompin tom. There was a lot of stuff that was good canadian music but it's hard to remember what bands were.
Wow, tenth album. That dude is way too prolific. It was the first album I ever heard of theirs, and their biggest hit.
Skinny puppy is also good. Bill leeb was great when I used to do a radio show at college. Because of the CRTC we had to play a number of canadian songs in an hour, so with his many side projects we could really be playing the same guy and call it different music.
To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it. Frankly, the musical selection here in Kansas is quite awful, so I'll try to pick out the cream of the crop.
Andy McKee is one of the greatest guitarists of all time, and he's a Kansas native.
LiD is an industrial act from my hometown of Overland Park, and they're one of my favorite Industrial Bands (as they take a somewhat comedic approach to the genre). I have no idea why Tom decided to use stock footage of the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers for this video, but it works.
Diskreet is one of the few Grindcore bands I can actually stand, as they're plenty technical and they actually manage to have decent production value. They're from Kansas' capitol, Topeka, though their lead guitarist hails from Tennessee.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
'Best' is definitely subjective. The sheer amount of music produced in The United States is not. You can find music of quite literally any genre in the United States, and while a select few British bands may have sold more records than literally anyone else, they are still dominated by sheer force of numbers and a wider array of music. The United States is also a haven for technical musicianship, refining the art that originated with (mostly) British music to a ridiculous degree.
The U.S. definitely owes it's roots in almost every genre to the U.K., but it has since evolved into a completely different (and much larger) beast. I don't think it can be argued that the United States currently owns more of the music market than the United Kingdom does.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
'Best' is definitely subjective. The sheer amount of music produced in The United States is not. You can find music of quite literally any genre in the United States, and while a select few British bands may have sold more records than literally anyone else, they are still dominated by sheer force of numbers and a wider array of music. The United States is also a haven for technical musicianship, refining the art that originated with (mostly) British music to a ridiculous degree.
The U.S. definitely owes it's roots in almost every genre to the U.K., but it has since evolved into a completely different (and much larger) beast. I don't think it can be argued that the United States currently owns more of the music market than the United Kingdom does.
Ah, so we're talking about sales? Popularity is not a reliable indicator of quality. Do I really need to list the sheer number of influential UK artists at this point? I thought it was just a given.
You should note that I'm not trying to act like the USA hasn't been home to some of the most influential artists of all time - it's just that compared to even just England there's really no comparison.
For the record (pun slightly intended), I am not America-bashing here. I love American music.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
OH YEAH, WELL YOU'D BE SPEAKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW!
Ahem. Sorry. Thought I'd just skip straight to the end of every America v Britain argument and get it out of the way.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
OH YEAH, WELL YOU'D BE SPEAKING GERMAN RIGHT NOW!
Ahem. Sorry. Thought I'd just skip straight to the end of every America v Britain argument and get it out of the way.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
'Best' is definitely subjective. The sheer amount of music produced in The United States is not. You can find music of quite literally any genre in the United States, and while a select few British bands may have sold more records than literally anyone else, they are still dominated by sheer force of numbers and a wider array of music. The United States is also a haven for technical musicianship, refining the art that originated with (mostly) British music to a ridiculous degree.
The U.S. definitely owes it's roots in almost every genre to the U.K., but it has since evolved into a completely different (and much larger) beast. I don't think it can be argued that the United States currently owns more of the music market than the United Kingdom does.
Ah, so we're talking about sales? Popularity is not a reliable indicator of quality. Do I really need to list the sheer number of influential UK artists at this point? I thought it was just a given.
You should note that I'm not trying to act like the USA hasn't been home to some of the most influential artists of all time - it's just that compared to even just England there's really no comparison.
For the record (pun slightly intended), I am not America-bashing here. I love American music.
I really don't think one is better than the other. British and US music is pretty much on par with each other.
Albatross wrote:Ah, so we're talking about sales? Popularity is not a reliable indicator of quality. Do I really need to list the sheer number of influential UK artists at this point? I thought it was just a given.
Popularity is the only non-biased indicator of quality. Everything else boils down to pure, unadulterated, singular opinion. I'm not of the opinion that popularity = quality (in fact, the higher the level of musicianship and technical complexity that a band exhibits, the less popular they tend to be), but it's more democratic, and less biased, than any other approach to the subject. Besides that, all of the most influential British bands have sold incredibly well, so it's a good indicator regardless.
You should note that I'm not trying to act like the USA hasn't been home to some of the most influential artists of all time - it's just that compared to even just England there's really no comparison.
For the record (pun slightly intended), I am not America-bashing here. I love American music.
I'm not arguing that American music is more influential, I'm simply arguing that there's much more of it, and that it has branched out into far more genres than England could ever hope to. It's actually all very self-contained and subliminal influence, and it only trickles down very slowly throughout a genre's many subsets (there's no massive impact with our music as their has been with the most recognizable names in British music). Our cultural base certainly helps us out here as well; we have a lot to pick and choose from.
Though England is responsible for the creation of many genres, the information age (as well as a strain on creativity) has forced music into a much different evolutionary pattern.
Albatross wrote:Ah, so we're talking about sales? Popularity is not a reliable indicator of quality. Do I really need to list the sheer number of influential UK artists at this point? I thought it was just a given.
Popularity is the only non-biased indicator of quality.
Erm, actually no. Popularity is only an indicator of popularity. Hate to invoke Godwin's law, but fascism was pretty popular during the '30s.
Potato chips are popular. VERY popular. They are NOT a quality foodstuff.
I will credit you with this, you DO do a wonderful job of sounding like you know what you're talking about. You're very plausible.
I'm not arguing that American music is more influential, I'm simply arguing that there's much more of it, and that it has branched out into far more genres than England could ever hope to. It's actually all very self-contained and subliminal influence, and it only trickles down very slowly throughout a genre's many subsets (there's no massive impact with our music as their has been with the most recognizable names in British music). Our cultural base certainly helps us out here as well; we have a lot to pick and choose from.
Again, this doesn't actually MEAN anything. It just sounds like it does. I'm arguing that British music is of greater quality, and you appear to be trying to rebut that by stating that American music is of greater quantity. That doesn't make any sense.
Albatross wrote:Ah, so we're talking about sales? Popularity is not a reliable indicator of quality. Do I really need to list the sheer number of influential UK artists at this point? I thought it was just a given.
Popularity is the only non-biased indicator of quality.
Erm, actually no. Popularity is only an indicator of popularity. Hate to invoke Godwin's law, but fascism was pretty popular during the '30s.
Potato chips are popular. VERY popular. They are NOT a quality foodstuff.
I will credit you with this, you DO do a wonderful job of sounding like you know what you're talking about. You're very plausible.
What is popular may not equate to being wholesome, but it's still an indicator of what the vast majority of a population sees as quality. Potato Chips are 'quality' in the sense that they 'taste good', even if they may not be healthy for you. Fascism had not reared it's ugly head towards the majority of it's supporters at the peak of it's popularity, and the reparations had not yet appeared as a result of some rather heinous actions.
Quite literally everything else can be rebutted with 'I don't agree', and then the entire argument is all for naught. The value of 'quality' is fairly intangible for most people (It ends up being as simple as 'This music makes me feel good'). Even though I can explain my view of 'quality music' perfectly well, there is absolutely no point in doing so, because I guarantee that if you see the majority of influential British bands as honest quality music, then we already disagree in every conceivable way on this particular point. There is no way I can convince anyone that pure technical complexity or intricate knowledge of music theory equates to quality; one must be completely open to thinking in such a way.
Using 'influential' as an indicator of quality is bad form, as it contradicts your argument against popularity being equivalent to quality. Something must be popular to be influential, at least to the degree that you speak of.
Again, this doesn't actually MEAN anything. It just sounds like it does. I'm arguing that British music is of greater quality, and you appear to be trying to rebut that by stating that American music is of greater quantity. That doesn't make any sense.
My statement of 'The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on the music industry' was based entirely in the notion that American music controls a vast majority of the music industry. You are the one who is attempting to argue a completely different argument. We can't argue quality, as there is absolutely nothing to base the argument in, and it would disolve into nonsense rather quickly.
Anyway, to get slightly back on topic, I'm very disappointed that I can't find any of my favorite Kansas City area Jazz on youtube.
Chrysaor686 wrote: Something must be popular to be influential.
Untrue, "Venom" a British heavy metal band was the first thrash metal and was highly influential to thrash, death and black metal. In fact there anti-christian themes, stage names, harsh sound and speed proved to be so influential to black metal
that the genre name actually comes from Venom's second album almost every black metal musician has heard of Venom and they're also well known among thrashers and death heads. The main populace probably doesn't know of them and are
Chrysaor686 wrote: Something must be popular to be influential.
Untrue, "Venom" a British heavy metal band was the first thrash metal and was highly influential to thrash, death and black metal. In fact there anti-christian themes, stage names, harsh sound and speed proved to be so influential to black metal
that the genre name actually comes from Venom's second album almost every black metal musician has heard of Venom and they're also well known among thrashers and death heads. The main populace probably doesn't know of them and are
regarded by critics as "a trio of buffoons".
That still directly correlates to the popularity of the music that Venom influenced. Venom did not have to be mainstream to influence Black Metal because Black Metal is not mainstream. As you've said, they're still exceedingly popular (or, at least, respected) amongst people who listen to Black Metal, which serves to prove my point.
Using 'influential' as an indicator of quality is bad form, as it contradicts your argument against popularity being equivalent to quality. Something must be popular to be influential, at least to the degree that you speak of.
And artist being widely influential to other artists is a vastly different thing to commercial success. I'm not arguing that popularity can't be used as a measure of quality to a certain degree, but to claim it's the only unbiased indicator of quality is just not true. There are plenty of very bad things that are popular.
There are artists who are unpopular in their time that go on to influence subsequent artists who become succesful, helping to popularise their hitherto unknown artistic progenitors. Nick Drake is a prime example.
Chrysaor686 wrote: Something must be popular to be influential.
Untrue, "Venom" a British heavy metal band was the first thrash metal and was highly influential to thrash, death and black metal. In fact there anti-christian themes, stage names, harsh sound and speed proved to be so influential to black metal
that the genre name actually comes from Venom's second album almost every black metal musician has heard of Venom and they're also well known among thrashers and death heads. The main populace probably doesn't know of them and are
regarded by critics as "a trio of buffoons".
That still directly correlates to the popularity of the music that Venom influenced. Venom did not have to be mainstream to influence Black Metal because Black Metal is not mainstream. As you've said, they're still exceedingly popular (or, at least, respected) amongst people who listen to Black Metal, which serves to prove my point.
I said they were popular to thrash, death and especially black metal. If you don't think there was any mainstream successes out of the thrash metal genre then I don't know what the big the "Big Four" is.
Ok well Ill just do a few from my state of Michigan
Ted Nugent
The white Stipes
Iggy made some pretty good tunes
Then bands like Sponge, The Verve pipe, Bob Seger, Stevie Wonder, Alice Cooper, Even Madonna, thats right, shes not a Brit, even though she would swear to god she was lol. I Think Michigan could go toe to toe with the Brits on music
Albatross wrote:And artist being widely influential to other artists is a vastly different thing to commercial success. I'm not arguing that popularity can't be used as a measure of quality to a certain degree, but to claim it's the only unbiased indicator of quality is just not true. There are plenty of very bad things that are popular.
To become the forefather of an entire genre requires a certain level of commercial success. Art begets art and all that, but there is a difference between a musician playing a part in creating another musician's music and a band giving birth to an entire genre. Artistic influence is so common that we would hardly have anything without it. Keep in mind that those bad things which are popular are only bad because of your own opinion. Even if someone's opinion conflicts horribly with yours, they still have a right to it, so long as it is not affecting you or anyone else adversely.
Of course, whether or not something is affecting you adversely is also up for debate.
Incidentally, have you read Adorno?
No, I haven't.
Cheesecat wrote:I said they were popular to thrash, death and especially black metal. If you don't think there was any mainstream successes out of the thrash metal genre then I don't know what the big the "Big Four" is.
Thrash metal was mainly influenced by Motorhead, who happen to be just as popular as the genre that they spawned. Death Metal's main influence most certainly wasn't Venom (probably more along the lines of Death and Napalm Death), and Death Metal is still chiefly considered an 'underground' form of music. Venom is most often credited with simply being the forefather of Black Metal, and they are proportionately popular to their respective genre.
Chrysaor686 wrote:
Thrash metal was mainly influenced by Motorhead, who happen to be just as popular as the genre that they spawned.
Thrash metal's influences were from new wave of British metal, speed metal and hardcore punk not one main source. The earliest band of the emerging thrash movement formed in 1979, which was Venom from Great Britain. Welcome to Hell,
had many elements that would be very inspirational to thrash, death, black, and virtually every other form of extreme metal, serving as a primer for thousands of post-New Wave of British Heavy Metal teens to follow.
Hey if this were the 80s......or hell very EARLY 90s Id say sure why not. But uhm.......they havnt made a good cd in...well probably longer then ALOT of dakkites have been alive. IMO That doesnt make a badass band. Sure they made some real epic and awesome songs, but my point still stands
KingCracker wrote:Hey if this were the 80s......or hell very EARLY 90s Id say sure why not. But uhm.......they havnt made a good cd in...well probably longer then ALOT of dakkites have been alive. IMO That doesnt make a badass band. Sure they made some real epic and awesome songs, but my point still stands
But there's a lot of good bands who haven't produced awesome music in a long time Judas Priest, Motorhead, etc, etc...
Willie Nelson (this song always brings tears to my eyes)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albatross wrote:
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
Respectfully, Bull fu ing gak.
Without the Beetles, David Bowie, UT, and the Police, you aint got gak.
Ragtime, invented USA
Jazz invented USA
Rock n Roll invented USA
Hip Hop invented USA
Big Band invented USA
Grunge invented USA
Blues invented USA
Bluegrass invented USA
Western invented USA (ok in defense I'm sure every country has their own country/folk music version)
Rap invented USA
Cajun / Zydeco invented USA
Boy George invented UK
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KingCracker wrote:Ok well Ill just do a few from my state of Michigan
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
Respectfully, Bull fu ing gak.
Without the Beetles, David Bowie, UT, and the Police, you aint got gak.
Aren't you supposed to be a mod?
Well, as long as we're being respectful - you haven't got a fething clue what you are talking about.
Ragtime, invented USA
An acculturation of several european forms, one of which being military march music that had it's roots in Britain, in addition to the aforementioned Music hall style which was direct antecedent to American vaudeville and dancehall music, from which ragtime was birthed.
Jazz invented USA
See above.
Rock n Roll invented USA
Amalgam of the various Country styles (Which have their origins in traditional English, Irish and Scots folk songs and hymns), in addition to Blues, Gospel (same) and forms directly directly birthed from jazz, such as boogie-woogie (see jazz example)
Hip Hop invented USA
Fair enough, you can have that one, Grandmaster Frazzled, if only because I can't be arsed with long and convoluted path back to English music from hip-hop.
Big Band invented USA
See Jazz
Grunge invented USA
Are you serious? Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin? Ringing any bells? Grunge was HEAVILY influenced by British music.
Blues invented USA
The spirituals and 'field hollers' from which Blues is derived have their roots in traditional British folk song and hymns (in addition to the obvious African inflence - on ALL of these styles, to be fair.) Also, there is a version of 'Champagne Charlie', a British Music Hall song, recorded by Blind Blake in 1928.
Bluegrass invented USA
Again, British traditional music.
Western invented USA (ok in defense I'm sure every country has their own country/folk music version)
See above.
Rap invented USA
Wait... You already said Hip-Hop!
Cajun / Zydeco invented USA
Well, that's a mix of French and other forms mentioned earlier, such as Blues and Country.
Boy George invented UK
He's heavily influenced by American music, most notably Motown.
Seriously, Frazzled - I write essays on this stuff more often than you clean your guns.
Chrysaor686 wrote:To keep things fair (or cripple my options severely), I'll limit my videos to musicians from Kansas. The United States holds a pretty broad monopoly on music, even if the United Kingdom is responsible for starting most of it.
Actually, you have it the wrong way round. The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
Respectfully, Bull fu ing gak.
Without the Beetles, David Bowie, UT, and the Police, you aint got gak.
Aren't you supposed to be a mod?
Well, as long as we're being respectful - you haven't got a fething clue what you are talking about.
Ragtime, invented USA
An acculturation of several european forms, one of which being military march music that had it's roots in Britain, in addition to the aforementioned Music hall style which was direct antecedent to American vaudeville and dancehall music, from which ragtime was birthed.
Jazz invented USA
See above.
Rock n Roll invented USA
Amalgam of the various Country styles (Which have their origins in traditional English, Irish and Scots folk songs and hymns), in addition to Blues, Gospel (same) and forms directly directly birthed from jazz, such as boogie-woogie (see jazz example)
Hip Hop invented USA
Fair enough, you can have that one, Grandmaster Frazzled, if only because I can't be arsed with long and convoluted path back to English music from hip-hop.
Big Band invented USA
See Jazz
Grunge invented USA
Are you serious? Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin? Ringing any bells? Grunge was HEAVILY influenced by British music.
Blues invented USA
The spirituals and 'field hollers' from which Blues is derived have their roots in traditional British folk song and hymns (in addition to the obvious African inflence - on ALL of these styles, to be fair.) Also, there is a version of 'Champagne Charlie', a British Music Hall song, recorded by Blind Blake in 1928.
Bluegrass invented USA
Again, British traditional music.
Western invented USA (ok in defense I'm sure every country has their own country/folk music version)
See above.
Rap invented USA
Wait... You already said Hip-Hop!
Cajun / Zydeco invented USA
Well, that's a mix of French and other forms mentioned earlier, such as Blues and Country.
Boy George invented UK
He's heavily influenced by American music, most notably Motown.
Seriously, Frazzled - I write essays on this stuff more often than you clean your guns.
Frazzled was mentioning genres invented by the US not what influenced the genres.
Cheesecat wrote:Frazzled was mentioning genres invented by the US not what influenced the genres
I said that American music has it's roots in British music and he said that was bs. I was merely demonstrating that it is, in fact, true.
Yeah you're right the UK has influences in almost every genre. But as mentioned before the US has invented a fair amount of genres even if they have "British" inspiration.
Cheesecat wrote:Frazzled was mentioning genres invented by the US not what influenced the genres
I said that American music has it's roots in British music and he said that was bs. I was merely demonstrating that it is, in fact, true.
Yeah you're right the UK has influences in almost every genre. But as mentioned before the US has invented a fair amount of genres even if they have "British" inspiration.
Yes. I know that. I'm studying popular music at degree-level. The USA has a rich musical history - that is not in question.
Cheesecat wrote:Frazzled was mentioning genres invented by the US not what influenced the genres
I said that American music has it's roots in British music and he said that was bs. I was merely demonstrating that it is, in fact, true.
Yeah you're right the UK has influences in almost every genre. But as mentioned before the US has invented a fair amount of genres even if they have "British" inspiration.
Yes. I know that. I'm studying popular music at degree-level. The USA has a rich musical history - that is not in question.
Oh I know I'm just stating that I'm in agreement .
Cheesecat wrote:Frazzled was mentioning genres invented by the US not what influenced the genres
I said that American music has it's roots in British music and he said that was bs. I was merely demonstrating that it is, in fact, true.
Blues, jazz, bluegrass, soul music came from the South and has its earliest roots in African music. The closest it came to british were the original slave ships thanks.
I forgot about Motown.
Really Brit, get it together, on the music front you invented well, nothing.
Cheesecat wrote:Frazzled was mentioning genres invented by the US not what influenced the genres
I said that American music has it's roots in British music and he said that was bs. I was merely demonstrating that it is, in fact, true.
Blues, jazz, bluegrass, soul music came from the South and has its earliest roots in African music. The closest it came to british were the original slave ships thanks.
I forgot about Motown.
Really Brit, get it together, on the music front you invented well, nothing.
Seriously Frazzled, you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about - I know way more about this than you do. If you'd like, I could recommend some reading on the subject. You really need to educate yourself on things before you go shooting your mouth off about them, making yourself look foolish.
Hell, even a cursory look at wikipedia will verify what I say. Taking just bluegrass as an example:
wiki wrote:Bluegrass pioneer Bill Monroe characterized the genre: "Scottish bagpipes and ole-time fiddlin'. It's Methodist and Holiness and Baptist. It's blues and jazz, and it has a high lonesome sound."
I mean, that's available for anyone to read - not even considering the vast amount of reading I've done on the subject over the past couple of years. ALL research points towards an overwhelming British influence on American music. It's not the only influence, but it is a major influence. To suggest otherwise is just ignorant. The key term is 'acculturation', the meeting of different cultures and the formation of new culture from disparate elements. British elements are key to the formation of whole swathes of American culture.
You don't like that because your a jingoist, and with that comes a certain amount of insecurity and defensiveness, but it doesn't make the facts not facts.
You started it. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Blues, Soul and Jazz weren't invented in the US. Remember you started this with yours snarky comment about the US. Wait you think hip hop and rap are the same? Really?
You started it. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Blues, Soul and Jazz weren't invented in the US. Remember you started this with yours snarky comment about the US. Wait you think hip hop and rap are the same? Really?
What music did the UK invent again?
The music that directly gave birth to yours. Remember when I said that a few posts ago? I NEVER said that the British invented those genres, I said the roots of American music come from Britain. A fact. Quit crying about it, you can still hug the 'Stars and Bars' when you go to bed at night, no-ones trying to take it away from you.
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
You started it. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Blues, Soul and Jazz weren't invented in the US. Remember you started this with yours snarky comment about the US. Wait you think hip hop and rap are the same? Really?
What music did the UK invent again?
The music that directly gave birth to yours. Remember when I said that a few posts ago? I NEVER said that the British invented those genres, I said the roots of American music come from Britain. A fact. Quit crying about it, you can still hug the 'Stars and Bars' when you go to bed at night, no-ones trying to take it away from you.
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
I think Frazzled just got owned. Also Blues has folk influences guess where Folk comes from.
You started it. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Blues, Soul and Jazz weren't invented in the US. Remember you started this with yours snarky comment about the US. Wait you think hip hop and rap are the same? Really?
What music did the UK invent again?
The music that directly gave birth to yours. Remember when I said that a few posts ago? I NEVER said that the British invented those genres, I said the roots of American music come from Britain. A fact. Quit crying about it, you can still hug the 'Stars and Bars' when you go to bed at night, no-ones trying to take it away from you.
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
So yuou didn't actually invent any genres of music. Gotcha.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
-British drinking song from pre war. Wow that means all of...nothing.
I think Frazzled just got owned. Also Blues has folk influences guess where Folk comes from. -Africa, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, everyfreaking where.
I restate, how many genres of music did Britain invent in the last 200 years? How many did the US invent? Ok. Thats what I thought you said.
Can we move on now and go back to the original topic?
Genres originating in or radically developed by British musicians include blues rock, heavy metal, progressive rock, hard rock, punk rock, electric folk, folk punk, acid jazz, shoegaze, drum and bass, grime, Britpop and dubstep.
You started it. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Blues, Soul and Jazz weren't invented in the US. Remember you started this with yours snarky comment about the US. Wait you think hip hop and rap are the same? Really?
What music did the UK invent again?
The music that directly gave birth to yours. Remember when I said that a few posts ago? I NEVER said that the British invented those genres, I said the roots of American music come from Britain. A fact. Quit crying about it, you can still hug the 'Stars and Bars' when you go to bed at night, no-ones trying to take it away from you.
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
So yuou didn't actually invent any genres of music. Gotcha.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
-British drinking song from pre war. Wow that means all of...nothing.
I think Frazzled just got owned. Also Blues has folk influences guess where Folk comes from. -Africa, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, everyfreaking where.
I restate, how many genres of music did Britain invent in the last 200 years? How many did the US invent? Ok. Thats what I thought you said.
Can we move on now and go back to the original topic?
Ya think so? What's next are you going to try and tell us Elvis is rock and roll?
Rock and roll was absalolute shyte before britain turned it into rock music.
You wouldn't be faceplaming if you realised amount of american rocksatrs I could quote putting britiain invasion bands, yeh one in particular, up as their main influence.
You started it. I'm not going to argue with someone who thinks Blues, Soul and Jazz weren't invented in the US. Remember you started this with yours snarky comment about the US. Wait you think hip hop and rap are the same? Really?
What music did the UK invent again?
The music that directly gave birth to yours. Remember when I said that a few posts ago? I NEVER said that the British invented those genres, I said the roots of American music come from Britain. A fact. Quit crying about it, you can still hug the 'Stars and Bars' when you go to bed at night, no-ones trying to take it away from you.
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
So yuou didn't actually invent any genres of music. Gotcha.
Apart from the earliest forms of popular song, the basis for literally ALL of popular music. Seriously, all of it. Please get a clue before you make yourself look even MORE foolish.
I think we've established that don't know anything about this subject. Fine, you LIKE music. That's great. I like biscuits. Doesn't mean I know anything about how they are made, their historical development or anything at all about them other than that I like them.
Incidentally, 'Star-Spangled Banner'? British tune.
-British drinking song from pre war. Wow that means all of...nothing.
Apart from the fact that the music to your national anthem was composed by an Englishman. I'm betting that bothers you more than you let on.
Mr Mystery wrote:Genres originating in or radically developed by British musicians include blues rock, heavy metal, progressive rock, hard rock, punk rock, electric folk, folk punk, acid jazz, shoegaze, drum and bass, grime, Britpop and dubstep.
Blues-rock invented by Lonnie Mack from Dearborn County, Indiana, United States, Heavy Metal invented by Blue Cheer from San Fransisco, Punk Rock originated from New York.
I'm going to pick you up on that, Cheescat. Those really only apply if your applying the concept of 'proto' to the development of a genre. That's not good musicology. If you were going to do that, then there's literally no limit to how far back you can go - I could claim that Blues is a British invention by that logic, which I AM NOT!
Mr Mystery wrote:Genres originating in or radically developed by British musicians include blues rock, heavy metal, progressive rock, hard rock, punk rock, electric folk, folk punk, acid jazz, shoegaze, drum and bass, grime, Britpop and dubstep.
Blues-rock invented by Lonnie Mack from Dearborn County, Indiana, United States, Heavy Metal invented by Blue Cheer from San Fransisco, Punk Rock originated from New York.
Blues Rock perhaps. But Heavy metal and Punk, you must be kidding me. Blue Cheer? They made a song which in retrospect has been determined as heavy metal, they had nothing to do with creating the genre. That was Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc. And punk rock is heavily influenced by two british genrres of which it's name is made up of.
Frazzled wrote:You're right. The Brits invented everything, because some farmer sang a song back in 1750. Ok, you win.
RAAAAWWWWR!!!
I'M NOT SAYING THAT BRITAIN INVENTED EVERYTHING!
What I said was this:
The UK has a dominant position in terms of the best bands/artists of all time, though blues and jazz are absolutely indispensable to the development of modern popular music. Even so, American music has it's roots in British Music Hall and the folk traditons of England, Ireland and Scotland.
Note the section in bold. I never said we invented everything, just that a lot of it springs from our culture.
I think Frazzled is doing the old sly duck and dive out of what your actually rebutting here and trying to make out he's being argued against about something rather different. I believe the original statement was...
Frazzled wrote:Respectfully, Bull fu ing gak.
Without the Beetles, David Bowie, UT, and the Police, you aint got gak.
Fairly sure a disagreement with the above doesn't imply "The Brits invented everything"
whatwhat wrote:I think Frazzled is doing the old sly duck and dive out of what your actually rebutting here and trying to make out he's being argued against about something rather different. I believe the original statement was...
Frazzled wrote:Respectfully, Bull fu ing gak.
Without the Beetles, David Bowie, UT, and the Police, you aint got gak.
Fairly sure a disagreement with the above doesn't imply "The Brits invented everything"
Y'all started it. After you took one for the team and claimed New Wave I just can't fight with you any more, that was such a self sacrifice.
Frazzled wrote:Y'all started it. After you took one for the team and claimed New Wave I just can't fight with you any more, that was such a self sacrifice.
That might have hurt if you're own dislike of new wave was mutual. It's by the same principle I'm not slinging one back about your claim country and western, I mean to me that's like supporting an argument against capital punishment by calling for law makers deaths.
Frazzled wrote:Y'all started it. After you took one for the team and claimed New Wave I just can't fight with you any more, that was such a self sacrifice.
That might have hurt if you're own dislike of new wave was mutual. It's by the same principle I'm not slinging one back about your claim country and western, I mean to me that's like supporting an argument against capital punishment by calling for law makers deaths.
Wait you like New Wave? Thats like, liking France.
Frazzled wrote:Y'all started it. After you took one for the team and claimed New Wave I just can't fight with you any more, that was such a self sacrifice.
That might have hurt if you're own dislike of new wave was mutual. It's by the same principle I'm not slinging one back about your claim country and western, I mean to me that's like supporting an argument against capital punishment by calling for law makers deaths.
Wait you like New Wave? Thats like, liking France.
You youngins.
Maybe in backwater texas old man. New order and Depeche Mode are welcome on my ipod anytime.
Frazzled wrote:Y'all started it. After you took one for the team and claimed New Wave I just can't fight with you any more, that was such a self sacrifice.
That might have hurt if you're own dislike of new wave was mutual. It's by the same principle I'm not slinging one back about your claim country and western, I mean to me that's like supporting an argument against capital punishment by calling for law makers deaths.
Wait you like New Wave? Thats like, liking France.
You youngins.
Maybe in backwater texas old man. New order and Depeche Mode are welcome on my ipod anytime.
Dear God make it stop! how do fight the urge to slit your wrists everye time you hear it. Please tell me you don't like Petshop Boys too?
Get the man some Los Lobos, U2, or Alicia Keyes stat!
Frazzled wrote:Y'all started it. After you took one for the team and claimed New Wave I just can't fight with you any more, that was such a self sacrifice.
That might have hurt if you're own dislike of new wave was mutual. It's by the same principle I'm not slinging one back about your claim country and western, I mean to me that's like supporting an argument against capital punishment by calling for law makers deaths.
Wait you like New Wave? Thats like, liking France.
You youngins.
Maybe in backwater texas old man. New order and Depeche Mode are welcome on my ipod anytime.
Dear God make it stop! how do fight the urge to slit your wrists everye time you hear it. Please tell me you don't like Petshop Boys too?
Get the man some Los Lobos, U2, or Alicia Keyes stat!
Pet shop boys have maybe one half decent song, the rest is poor. They don't represent the enitre genre.
And you can keep that shyte to yourself. Aswell as the kinda stuff Billy ray Cyrus puts out, including his offspring.
Albatross wrote:'New Wave' is a maddeningly broad definition - it encompasses everything from Blondie to Elvis Costello, Joy Division, Gang of Four, Talking Heads....
They're all good bands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, U2 started life as a new wave band.
Sinner! Blasphemer! Heretic! God shalt smote thee for angering him by besmirching the greatness that is U2.
Sunday bloody Sunday is new wave?
"Why is Dallas stadium open to the sky? So God can watch his team play."
-God
"What did he say? U2 was a new wave band? Boil him in linguini!!!"
-The All knowing All Powerful Speghetti Being
Well, post-punk is part of that whole 'new-wave' bunfight, and early U2 is most assuredly post-punk.
Exhibit A:
Incidentally, I quite like early-to-mid period U2 - around the time of War and The Unforgettable Fire. Obviously The Joshua Tree is also an exceptionally good album.
Many moons ago, I was issued a 48 page pamphlet with Canadurr on every page. Despite my efforts to renounce my citizenship and all ties to Tim Horton's, I am unable to break the abstract bonds which bind me to an arctic wasteland of fat chicks and chicken fingers. So, for you all, unfamiliar with true talent, I give you Sons of Butcher. Canuckistan' answer to popular music...Plug your ears. feth the gak. Feth the fethin gak.
In Canada we only have Rush, Anvil and Annihilator almost the rest is crap. 
) and Paul Rodgers from Free.
And Joni Mitchell!!!
ing gak.
