Do you think they'd succeed? I'm not sure, but if they really wanted to, I think they could easily destroy the imperium...Thoughts?

Why should they?

Necrons gain nothing from this.
If they keep the Imperium around, they get:

- followers ( mechanicum )
- weapons ( pariah )
- food ( endless streams of fast breeding creatures )
- a party with their new bestest friends in red

Huh, I see what you mean....Why wouldn't the crons just kill the mechanicus though? They're still 'alive' so to speak.

When did necron actively attack Humans?
Right, the moment they got disturbed in their slumber so it wasn't directed at them but a general reaction to tresspassers.
The Mechanicum is inspired by a creature which may be a C'tan.
Would the necrons disobey a C'tan?
IMO its beneficial for them to secretly guide the Mechanicum and thus its not likely they attack a possible pawn.

The C'tan don't really seem interested in wiining per se. For example the C'tan could just eat Terra's star if they really wanted to. I think they just want to have fun really.

I think the necron lords themselves probably just want to sleep or kill the C'tan for what they did to them. There might be a few who are still raging at living races for having flesh or whatever, basically old school jealousy like they had with the old ones.

There's even people who say that the necrons haven't even escalated into a war yet and the troops we see are their equivalent of farmers and militia, and the real soldiers have yet to be activated. I guess they see all the crap in the galaxy as a harvest and not a war that actually threatens their security.

Now if that was all true and they did go on the offensive I would imagine they would activate some nasty dudes to roflstomp terra.

No they would not even bypass the entire Terran fleet. They have tried before. And they were wiped out by an entire titan legion.

'Possibly be a c'tan'

hmm...I've read this somewhere before..Oh yeah, the EMPRAH!

If what asimo77 said is true, I really don't think they'd need to destroy terra to make the empire collapse...

Samus_aran115 wrote:'Possibly be a c'tan'

hmm...I've read this somewhere before..Oh yeah, the EMPRAH!

If what asimo77 said is true, I really don't think they'd need to destroy terra to make the empire collapse...

There still would be alot of space marine chapters that could hold the imperium together. Plus how could the necrons bypass the Entire Grey Knight chapter that has 3,000?
And 50 titan legions?
And over 20,000,000 ships?
And the Imperail Fists Chapter!?!?!?

I don't remember any story involving titan legions and such, though I'm not sure why losing to entire titan legion is considred a failure I mean it's an entire titan legion that's a lot of dakka.

I do know 3 small necron scout ships landed on Mars and were promptly greeted cordially by the Imperium of Man.

Excuse my noobatry, but how many titans make up a titan legion? Like 10?

Not if Calgar has anything to say about it

Samus_aran115 wrote:Excuse my noobatry, but how many titans make up a titan legion? Like 10?

.....60......

Retribution wrote:Not if Calgar has anything to say about it

Well given how Calgar is a long, long way away from Terra I don't think he'll have much say in the matter. Rather he'll hear about it then turn up too late to actually do anything useful, just like the first time Terra came under attack from bad people...

Asherian Command wrote:There still would be alot of space marine chapters that could hold the imperium together. Plus how could the necrons bypass the Entire Grey Knight chapter that has 3,000?
And 50 titan legions?
And over 20,000,000 ships?
And the Imperail Fists Chapter!?!?!?

Lets see, the grey knights are made for dealing with Dameons more than anything-and as such are a Chapter of psykers. The Necrons are rather anti-psyker and have Pariahs designed to give Psykers a headache.

Depending on whether the Machine-God actually is a C'tan as per Mechanicum and various other sources imply the titan legions and other mechanicum forces may well help the Necrons or have a civil war of their own as allegiances are put to the test (or Machine Spirits rebel) So this could swing the battle in favour of the Necrons or the Imperium or be totally useless dependant on the true identity of the Omnissiah

20,000,000 ships? I find it hard to beleive there are that many ships in the Solar System. It just seems too many to be true. And don't forget the Necrons have their own fleets which are likely to be quite sizeable given the scale of their pre-sleep wars. The name also escapes me of a really big ship they had, mentioned in C:SM, World Engine(?) that caused massive devestation

The Imperial Fists. They may list Terra as Home planet but how much of the Chapter is actually based their will be minimal. The Fortress Monastry is based on the Phalanx, a mobile space ship which could be anywhere on a crusade-not neccesarily in the Solar System when the Necrons arrive


Thats all I have to say for now, other than if the necrons did decide to attack Terra it probably wouldn't end well for the Imperium of man

Also necron ships are the best in the galaxy, I think I have the BFG book somewhere but it unequivocally states just that.

Also the didn't the Ultramarines not even show up on Terra during the Horus Heresy? Lazy bastards!

I think at there current stage the Necron issue would be fairly minor and easily beaten problem against Terra, though if they fully awaken the legions they will easily crush humanity.
I really dont think the Necrons would think twice about wiping out humanity, its there job to slaughter life forms and provide food for their masters.
The other little details like the Mechanicus, the Pariahs and all those other little schemes are nothing more then that, schemes concocted by the capricous Deciever.

The C'tan dont have followers for the sake of it, they have them to entertain themselves and to mess with them.
Trully they dont need them, they have the Necrons as their eternal slaves, the other "followers" are nothing but toys for the C'tan to break and play with at their leisure.
The Deciever does what hes name suggests and messes with entire civilizations just so he can wipe them out and laugh about it.
The Nightbringer slaughters and terrorizes, that is his purpose and of all the C'tan I think he cares less about the potential shortcomings of wiping out humanity.

If the Necrons were able to slaughter their way through the core imperial worlds and subsectors and even reach terra. It would be game over by that point. The Imperium losing its most established and profitable/productive worlds would be a hammer blow to them.

What armies/fleets would the necrons employ against Terra? Is there any chance they could destroy Terra before an infinity of humans showed up? (Necrons seem like Eldar, super tech, not many of em)

5 Necron light escort ships penetrated the Solar system without being noticed. 1 even managed to land on Mars itself.
A single Necron World Engine destroyed/crippled most of a sector fleet and it took the sacrafice of an entire SM chapter to destroy it.

What if 10 or 15 of those showed up? Backed up by couple hundred ships like the one in Dark Creed. They have self-repairing, hard to detect, hard to kill, and monsterously powerful ships. Not to mention the ability to teleport directly onto ships. Naval armsen dont heavy heavy enough weapons to stop them when they do.

They can also teleport monoliths and troops directly to the surface of Terra itself.

Who knows maybe such an attack could be a cover by the Deciever to free the Void Dragon from prison on Mars.

You know when those escorts got through? During the 2nd war of Armmaggedon. I think the imperial Forces at that time were stretch a little thinly with the war in eye of terror as well. And let us not forget about legion of the damned. Which would come out of nowhere and start slaughtering every little bastard in their path.

Dude also a lot of these theory's are flawed as entire Fleets of alien races have attacked Terra, but were owned by the thousands of Orbital Cannons that Broke through a Battle Barge with one shot.

The C'tan hate each other. The Void Dragon would kill the Deceiver. As they both hate each other.

And the world engine was a entire planet. 10 or 15? Are you freaking insane? they probably only had one or two. As they were counters to destroy the the Black Stone Fortresses.

If you have no proof please find some. And please stop claiming the necrons are the best when they have so many flaws that literally it took a single battlebarge of Templars to Destroy entire fleet of Necrons.

There are over a million worlds in the galaxy plenty of space to hide ships.

Where is it written that Terra was attacked directly since the HH? the The legion of the Damned are a little mysterious. It isn't know when they are going to show up if at all.

It says directly in the Necron codex that the Deceiver knows it needs the other C'tan to cut the warp off from real space.

Its IS STATED in the necron codex that there are followers of the C'tan in the Mechanicus. Is it too hard to believe that they could aid the Necrons?

Please no insults against insanity here.

Was the story of the single battlebarge from a sm codex? We all know the quality of those writings. I mean the Templars want to be ultra's dont they?

Fact: The majority of necron forces are dormant.
Fact: Necron codex states the numbers of Necron ships are on the rise.
Fact:Codex states there are followers amongst the Mechanicus.
Fact:Necron ships are far more powerful and advanced then Imperial ships.

Please dont get everyone started on how many flaws there are in the Imperium too.

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:There are over a million worlds in the galaxy plenty of space to hide ships.

Where is it written that Terra was attacked directly since the The legion of the Damned are a little mysterious. It isn't know when they are going to show up if at all.

It says directly in the Necron codex that the Deceiver knows it needs the other C'tan to cut the warp off from real space.

Its IS STATED in the necron codex that there are followers of the C'tan in the Mechanicus. Is it too hard to believe that they could aid the Necrons?

Please no insults against insanity here.

Was the story of the single battlebarge from a sm codex? We all know the quality of those writings. I mean the Templars want to be ultra's dont they?

Fact: The majority of necron forces are dormant.
Fact: Necron codex states the numbers of Necron ships are on the rise.
Fact:Codex states there are followers amongst the Mechanicus.
Fact:Necron ships are far more powerful and advanced then Imperial ships.

Please dont get everyone started on how many flaws there are in the Imperium too.

Yes but all of them getting active at the same time? And all targeting one system? AT THE SAME TIME?!?!??
Doesn't seem a little too well, lets see impossible!
Even if the Necrons were awoken in full force. They would be spread out alot.
I know the necrons have the best ships! But to say they are the best race is completely and utter stupidity and ignorant!
Dude the Black Templars are badasses. And they are so much better than the ultramarines! Do not ever compare the Black Templars to the Ultras! That is kinda of an insult dude. If you have ever read the books you will see my reasoning.
In the blood raven books an entire fleet of those necrons were pains in the ass to the blood ravens. And they destoried it using a sword. The Sword of the Avatar. Of course those books are not really good and are probably the worst piece of literature I have ever read in the 40k universe.
But just imagine how many chapters would come running to terra? And also the Black templars are pretty close by too. And the Space wolves, and the Blood Angels.
We have had this discussion before.
Also you need to clean up your post as it is bluntly insulting.

C.S. Goto's mad scribblings should be discounted. Unless you believe that razorbacks turn into landraiders into razorbacks and Space Marines surf them.

The tomb worlds are being activated in the background. The Necrons and C'tan were organized enough to fight a galaxy wide war for MILLIONS OF YEARS. I think they would be able to organize one attack fairly well. We don't know where the Necrons are centered/or even if they are centered. At this point we just don't know.

I never said they were the best race. I said they had the best ships. Those are two different things. As for the Black Templars, It says quite explicity in the C:SM that all chapters wish to be like the Ultras. It's just as cannon as the BT's destroying a fleet of Necron ships. If one isn't true than the other isn't as well. If we are pulling out things like a Space Marine using an Eldar Avatar's sword then we can use the Nexus arrangement from the Dark series. Ability for the Necrons to cut the warp off from an entire Solar system. No reinforcements to Terra, no Astronomican, nothing.

C.S. Goto, again, doesn't count. Those are the worst novels I have ever read, for a variety on reasons.

I can understand the imperium fanboyism, but let's face it if it came down to it Necrons could put the hurt on the Sol System. Target Terra directly? I'm not too sure but if they wanted to destroy the astronomicon I'm sure that would be the only reason. That or the Void Dragon wants revenge on the Emperor for his imprisonment. Tactically they probably would just destroy the planets surrounding to choke off vital supply lines and stable warp connections for reinforcements.

Unfortunately, the Eldar would come into play as well because if Mankind falls everyone is doomed. Remember that Eldar prophecy with the 4 C'tan reigning on high? Whole horizons of worlds emerald green with sickly pulse emissions of raw essence to feet hungry gods. Necrons can be stopped if their awakening is culled now but with attention drawn to imminent threats I doubt the Imperium would notice the rise of Necrons fast enough to counter. They have the Nids, Orks, Chaos and other predations to concern with at the ready, a tomb world going active would go under the radar long enough for full operations to take root by then...yeah good luck.

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:C.S. Goto's mad scribblings should be discounted. Unless you believe that razorbacks turn into landraiders into razorbacks and Space Marines surf them.

The tomb worlds are being activated in the background. The Necrons and C'tan were organized enough to fight a galaxy wide war for MILLIONS OF YEARS. I think they would be able to organize one attack fairly well. We don't know where the Necrons are centered/or even if they are centered. At this point we just don't know.

I never said they were the best race. I said they had the best ships. Those are two different things. As for the Black Templars, It says quite explicity in the C:SM that all chapters wish to be like the Ultras. It's just as cannon as the BT's destroying a fleet of Necron ships. If one isn't true than the other isn't as well. If we are pulling out things like a Space Marine using an Eldar Avatar's sword then we can use the Nexus arrangement from the Dark series. Ability for the Necrons to cut the warp off from an entire Solar system. No reinforcements to Terra, no Astronomican, nothing.

C.S. Goto, again, doesn't count. Those are the worst novels I have ever read, for a variety on reasons.

Did you even read my stuff?
You complain about that no one read your stuff! Plus it is stupid to believe the Black templars want to be like the Ultras. THAT IS SO FREAKING WRONG! YOU KNOW NOTHING OF SPACE MARINES!


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Kurgash wrote:I can understand the imperium fanboyism, but let's face it if it came down to it Necrons could put the hurt on the Sol System. Target Terra directly? I'm not too sure but if they wanted to destroy the astronomicon I'm sure that would be the only reason. That or the Void Dragon wants revenge on the Emperor for his imprisonment. Tactically they probably would just destroy the planets surrounding to choke off vital supply lines and stable warp connections for reinforcements.

Unfortunately, the Eldar would come into play as well because if Mankind falls everyone is doomed. Remember that Eldar prophecy with the 4 C'tan reigning on high? Whole horizons of worlds emerald green with sickly pulse emissions of raw essence to feet hungry gods. Necrons can be stopped if their awakening is culled now but with attention drawn to imminent threats I doubt the Imperium would notice the rise of Necrons fast enough to counter. They have the Nids, Orks, Chaos and other predations to concern with at the ready, a tomb world going active would go under the radar long enough for full operations to take root by then...yeah good luck.

Actually I found that wrong.
As every tomb world awakening is immediately greeted by an exterminatus.

I have been reading your posts. I have been responding to the points actually.
I read a lot of the novels and many of the codex. IT STATES THAT ALL SPACE MARINES WANT TO BE ULTRAS! Now, I realize that the BT's are a divergent chapter who believe that they are carrying on the Great Crusade. I know this. However, codex statements are codex statements. . .
Anyways, I know that Space Marines are walking war crimes. Children that are taken to be brainwashed, tortured, and the odds are likely that they will die before they even become full fledged marines. I think I know all I need to.
Could you please site the source that states that a single Battlebarge destroyed an entire fleet of Necrons? I haven't read the BT codex I'm afraid. There are no players of that particular chapter around here.

Damnos for one wasn't. Pavonis wasn't. The world from the short story with the deceiver story takes place wasn't. Caves of Ice was quarantined not exterminauted.

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:
Anyways, I know that Space Marines are walking war crimes. Children that are taken to be brainwashed, tortured, and the odds are likely that they will die before they even become full fledged marines. I think I know all I need to.

Alrighty that is complete BS. That has to be the dumbest thing i have heard in this entire thread. D:. First some are not childern some are actual adults, Chapters vary chapter to chapter.
Some absolutely HATE the ultras. Like my chapter would actually went into blows with ultras after they made us help them in their time of need and then we lost a recruiting world.
Alot of chapters hate the ultras. Like the Black Templars. That hate everything about the codex, same with the Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels.
Also I was a Black Templar player. Black Templar fleets are huge. And a Battle Barge can lay waste to anything.... Plus an entire chapter of Astral Knights basically owned the World Engine.
And how have you not heard about that story? It has to be one of the best 40k lores ever written apart from the Cloudwolf stuff.
I am now a SC. Which is basically a Black Templar army. But less.

Blood Angels and Dark Angels are codex chapters. They only have slight divergences from the codex.

The glands can only be put into someone age 13 or 14? How are they not children considering they have to weed out the weak first. One of the problems with Luther from the DA was that he was too old. From "Tales of the Heresy" a space Wolves company was too old to be given geneseed. They demanded it anyway and practicaly ALL OF THEM DIED!

There is little reason to implant it in adults.
What would you say if some group came, took your kid at age 6, then a few years later told you he died in training? That's a crime. It is WRONG. Okay, so maybe that's a personal opinion but I wouldn't want any child of mine taken like that

To try and pull this thread back on track

It is entirely possible that the Necrons could get together a large enough forces to actually attack Terra itself. The numbers of Necrons currently dormant are not stated. But given the size and scale of the 40k universe and how the Necrons and C'tan masters did at one stage have control of almost its entirety we could put an estimate down as a few million/billion.

There is no requitement for any of the C'tan to be directly involved in the attack, nor would they have to co-operate with each other. Rather the personal army of one (for the sake of argument the Deceiver) would possibly be large enough and strong enough to attack Terra alone and still inflict appauling casualties even if they were unable to take Terra.

As to the argument over Warp travel reinforcments, there are two ways to look at it. As The Unforgiven Saint mentioned the Necrons do have anti warp gizmo's. Most notably the Nexus arrangement-preventing warp travel into the system, and when on full power crippling psykers as well. So not only would reinforcements not be able to enter the system it would also disable the Astronomican for all Imperial ships that have gone into the warp. This alone would cause a massive detah toll.
Or, alternatively, it is important to remember that warp travel is not the most accurate or reliable form of travel. A ship that takes off from Maccrage might well arrive in time to help, or arrive far far to late. As a result there is no way for Imperial commanders to definitely know when and if reinforcement are going to arrive. Which could easily give the necrons an upper hand.

And thats all I'm posting before I see where this argument of Space marines is going...

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:Blood Angels and Dark Angels are codex chapters. They only have slight divergences from the codex.

The glands can only be put into someone age 13 or 14? How are they not children considering they have to weed out the weak first. One of the problems with Luther from the DA was that he was too old. From "Tales of the Heresy" a space Wolves company was too old to be given geneseed. They demanded it anyway and practicaly ALL OF THEM DIED!

There is little reason to implant it in adults.
What would you say if some group came, took your kid at age 6, then a few years later told you he died in training? That's a crime. It is WRONG. Okay, so maybe that's a personal opinion but I wouldn't want any child of mine taken like that

Actually the age space marines recurit varies from chapter to chapter.
Lets get back on topic the guy above i agree with. As he showed evidence and was alot less insulting and more of a caring poster that actually considers other people's point of view. not You saint.
I know the necron stuff i'm not newb when it comes to lore. But considering it is the necrons who are by far one of the most unmentioned and one of the least written races of all time! I do have to say there is barely any amount of info. As the necrons literally only have like 5-6 books written about them

At the very least can we all agree that the necrons (or any race for that matter) could hold their own or inflict serious damage to the IoM? I think if a race couldn't they probably wouldn't really be playable since 40k is about the IoM contending with its many enemies and threats.

inb4 tau are weak and not a threat

The only real reason for there being so few books on them is the difficulty it takes to write about uncaring machines. Which is a shame really.

The big questions we should really be asking and finding an answer for, or at least specultating over, are as follows:

1) Exactly what defenses does Terra have now? How well can it hold up alone too an outside attack of variable sizes?
2) Do the Necrons have the capability to do what Horus did and break down Terra and its allies?

If the Necrons do have superior arms and equiptment as they are rumoured to then the answer to 2) should be yes. But as stated above there is so little actual reference to such that it proves hard to actually deal with

off topic: ps. sorry if that was rushed but have to go eat. With a girl no less!

It was not my intention to be insulting. I didn't directly insult any other's knowledge of 40K. I didnt dismiss the other sides opinion. There seemed to be no consideration on your behalf of the other side of the disagreement. All that was posted was more along the lines of "Space marines are present. They are awesome. Necrons lose". Whether or not is the case idk.

You were not demonstarting a working knowledge of Necron lore so I apologize for assuming it was absent. I work only with what I am given. Would the necrons win? Maybe, if all of them combined their forces I believe the answer would be yes. Less than that. I doubt it. They would rip the defense apart like it hasn't been since the HH though.

I weeped over Hellforged. Such a terrible novel. Necrons using drop pods. . . I mean come on seriously. . .

asimo77 wrote:
inb4 tau are weak and not a threat

The tau couldn't even put down a small fleet of space marines.
So yeah tau are the fail race in the 40k universe.
Tyranids are the biggest threat in my opinion as they have only sent scout fleets.

But yes you are forgiven Saint. I do see both sides. I always look for different sides of an agruement. The only threads i do not get involved in are 40k vs another gaxaly/game. And warhammer fantasy. As I hate fantasy.

But still Necrons are big threat. They are insane in the books. As they somehow are able to teleport into ships... Which no race in the entire 40k universe can do that.
I find the necrons small amount of lore very very insulting as it has aboustely no up to date lore. But lets hope GW finds a way to fix the race. The only race that I truly fear are the Tyranids, and the shapeshifters.

All good then? Ok. Glad to hear it lol. Again, sorry if I came across as an arse. It wasn't intended.

Yeah but the one thing that pisses me off about the necrons is their ability to somehow teleport into Imperail, eldar, orc, tau, and tyranid ships. That makes no sense as no other race can do this. Not even the most advanced species. (Squats)
Can do this.

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:I have been reading your posts. I have been responding to the points actually.
I read a lot of the novels and many of the codex. IT STATES THAT ALL SPACE MARINES WANT TO BE ULTRAS! Now, I realize that the BT's are a divergent chapter who believe that they are carrying on the Great Crusade. I know this. However, codex statements are codex statements. . .

ALRIGHT. FIRST of all, everyone kinda needs to calm down about this. Seriously. Ees a backstory to a game.

Still, monsieur Unforgiven Saint, the Blood Angels do not want to be Ultras. They are scions of Sanguinius, and I doubt whether they would betray that heritage to be more like a chapter of another lineage. Same with the Dark Angels - they were the first legion, and are extremely proud of their traditions. Space Wolves? No. Warriors who 'disdain the fawning superstitions of other men'.

So. No.


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Oh, right. Necrons. (lol)


Um, the imperium seriously has enough manpower and resources to combat the necrons (plus, eldar would help.)

Do I hear you say "well, doesn't the imperium has to combat, like, everything right now?"

Well, monsieur smartypants, what wouldn't the necrons have to face all them, too? Eh? Haha. Death by logic.

prussia59 wrote:

The Unforgiven Saint wrote:I have been reading your posts. I have been responding to the points actually.
I read a lot of the novels and many of the codex. IT STATES THAT ALL SPACE MARINES WANT TO BE ULTRAS! Now, I realize that the BT's are a divergent chapter who believe that they are carrying on the Great Crusade. I know this. However, codex statements are codex statements. . .

ALRIGHT. FIRST of all, everyone kinda needs to calm down about this. Seriously. Ees a backstory to a game.

Still, monsieur Unforgiven Saint, the Blood Angels do not want to be Ultras. They are scions of Sanguinius, and I doubt whether they would betray that heritage to be more like a chapter of another lineage. Same with the Dark Angels - they were the first legion, and are extremely proud of their traditions. Space Wolves? No. Warriors who 'disdain the fawning superstitions of other men'.

So. No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, right. Necrons. (lol)


Um, the imperium seriously has enough manpower and resources to combat the necrons (plus, eldar would help.)

Do I hear you say "well, doesn't the imperium has to combat, like, everything right now?"

Well, monsieur smartypants, what wouldn't the necrons have to face all them, too? Eh? Haha. Death by logic.

I find that correct. Good

The comment about everyone wanting to be Ultra's was a slight jab at Space Marine writings. As to all the other threats.

Orks: Don't provoke them immediately. Some Tomb worlds will invariably be invaded but that would be those planetsble to trouble to deal with.

IG: Occupied fighting everything

Space MArines occupied fighting everything. Don't go attracting attention before you're ready for the fight

Tau:?

Eldar: would obviously try to spoil the plans

Tyranids: Avoid Necrons

Dark Eldar: No slaves to take

Daemons: Anti-warp devises

Chaos troops: There would be no blood for the blood god.

Necrons arent the biggest target in the galaxy. That would be the IoM.

If the necrons ever fully awoke, they would not only put the imperium in great jepardy, but the entire galaxy as a whole. After the defeat of the old ones, the necrons formally scattered to the edges of the galaxy in order to keep the galaxy "surrounded" in essence, so that when the galaxy repopulated itself with sentient life, there would be a reason for them to function again.

One necron factor is being severly overlooked here... simple stamina: they are an unliving race, who are impossible to kill, and whenever seriously damaged, emergency teleport to self repair. Every other race in the galaxy has finite numbers, especially the imperium. In a prolonged war, which the necrons are designed for, they would lose. Granted, the old ones planned for this in advance, having created the orks as the most indomnible race, a race which through life holds the same staying power as long as they are at war, and the eldar to guide the other younger races for the coming war.

The necrons realize that if they were to activate on a large scale, the outcome of a galaxy wide battle would be too risky, as with all of the living races alligned against them, and the chaos gods battling the c'tan at every facet, defeat would be an inevitable outcome. Their main goal is simply to establish a foothold and close the warp for good as soon as possible, this would give them and ENORMOUS advantage.

As with regards to the scout ships making it to Mars, it is true, the C'tan do not favor each other very much. The deciever managed to survive the infighting by outsmarting every other c'tan, and convincing the most powerful c'tan the nightbringer to wipe out the majority of them. The fact that the void dragon survived implies its power, and likely those 5 scout ships were their to either deliver a message or barter with the void dragon.

and even with all of this going on, the necrons realize an even greater threat to their food is coming over the galactic horizon...the tyranids: a race they know nothing about, that is equal in tenacity and seems to hold an unlimited supply of troops. They have nothing to gain from each other, the tyranids and necrons, but they are after the same thing:(everyone in the galaxy) and because of this they pose possibly an even bigger threat than that of the warp.

gameandwatch wrote:If the necrons ever fully awoke, they would not only put the imperium in great jepardy, but the entire galaxy as a whole. After the defeat of the old ones, the necrons formally scattered to the edges of the galaxy in order to keep the galaxy "surrounded" in essence, so that when the galaxy repopulated itself with sentient life, there would be a reason for them to function again.

One necron factor is being severly overlooked here... simple stamina: they are an unliving race, who are impossible to kill, and whenever seriously damaged, emergency teleport to self repair. Every other race in the galaxy has finite numbers, especially the imperium. In a prolonged war, which the necrons are designed for, they would lose. Granted, the old ones planned for this in advance, having created the orks as the most indomnible race, a race which through life holds the same staying power as long as they are at war, and the eldar to guide the other younger races for the coming war.

The necrons realize that if they were to activate on a large scale, the outcome of a galaxy wide battle would be too risky, as with all of the living races alligned against them, and the chaos gods battling the c'tan at every facet, defeat would be an inevitable outcome. Their main goal is simply to establish a foothold and close the warp for good as soon as possible, this would give them and ENORMOUS advantage.

As with regards to the scout ships making it to Mars, it is true, the C'tan do not favor each other very much. The deciever managed to survive the infighting by outsmarting every other c'tan, and convincing the most powerful c'tan the nightbringer to wipe out the majority of them. The fact that the void dragon survived implies its power, and likely those 5 scout ships were their to either deliver a message or barter with the void dragon.

and even with all of this going on, the necrons realize an even greater threat to their food is coming over the galactic horizon...the tyranids: a race they know nothing about, that is equal in tenacity and seems to hold an unlimited supply of troops. They have nothing to gain from each other, the tyranids and necrons, but they are after the same thing:(everyone in the galaxy) and because of this they pose possibly an even bigger threat than that of the warp.

Very true i love how Tyranids fear Necrons above all else. As they went around an entire world of necrons just to get to ultramar.

I wouldnt say they fear them, as they don't really fear, love hate, much of anything. I would say that they would avoid them above all others because fighting them holds not benefit what so-ever. Imagine if all life but Tyranids was gone from the galaxy, necrons are still around of course, tyranids would peace out, no need for them to stick around.

I think one thing needs to be remembered about the Necron Threat, they have done this before and came very close to victory.

The first Necron war of cleansing was the War in Heaven where they fought the Eldar, the Krorks "Orks" and the Old Ones, a race of god like beings with extremely long lives and the ability to create entire races.
They wiped out the Old Ones and many races throughout the universe, they left a universe screaming so badly that the psychic barriers of the warp began to distort and the Enslaver Plague began.

This enormous demonic incursion foiled the entire plans of the Necrons as they had no way of stopping it or really a way of fighting it, daemons trump necrons in being made of warp material and infinate, they cannot be harvested nor controlled.

So the Necrons were on the verge of victory and this muddled up their plans, the Krorks went away and the Eldar escaped somehow, the Daemon incursion went on for years and left the universe barren. Then life started once more and over the next couple of million years we have the 40k universe.
The universe is once more flourishing with life and this is what the Necrons have been waiting for, their C'tan masters are hungry and the crops are full.

But they have learnt from their mistakes, if they carry on the way they did before they will just have another Daemon Incursion and they will need to flee much to their chagrin so how do they fix this problem? They will need to make the warp and the materium ultimately seperate, cut off the two plains of existence from each other.

If they do manage this, they will be victorious, there are just too many positives.

These Necrons today are the exact same warriors who brought down a race of gods to their knees and wiped out countless civilizations but they also have knowledge of their enemies, they know more about the Eldar and the Orks then anybody and they are quickly learning about their new threats.
But their threats now are slightly downgraded.

Imperium: Possibly the biggest threat to the Necron plans, they unwittingly feed their greatest enemy, chaos and they are as numerous as rats, rats armed with billions of tanks, guns and titanic giants. They can destroy a world at the touch of a button and Tomb Worlds are precious. But they do have their many weakness'.
Firstly they are a chaotic society under the guise of order and structure, beuracracy has made such things impossible. Since everything needs to go through beuracracy in can take years for a report of a possible Tomb World to actually get to the ears of someone who cares, in the mean time it will go through a million mindless servitors, a thousand faceless beuracrats who must put their approval stamp on it for it to see anyone. Then it goes from one facility to another until it reaches an Inquisitor or an officer who can do anything about it.
Funnily enough though its more likely that the same Tomb World was recently reported by the media harboring a mass Necron fleet and is wiping out the surrounding planets including the human colonists.
Pencil pushing has become more important to Imperial warfare then actual action and disobeing as such can be deemed heresy.

Secondly they are organic and need constant fuel to survive and wage warfare, if several agri world were wiped out by a necron force that would starve a hundred worlds and put thousands more in famine and possibly a thousand more will have reduced rations. The Imeprium is like an orgianic being much like the Tyranids, if you wipe out the important vessels the rest of the structure will be crippled.
Even their forge worlds are at a weakness, it is stated that most Forge worlds specialise in one particular construction of a vehicle, some planets hold onto the plans of these vehicles like religous artifacts and covet them so that they are the only planet who can make them.
So if these worlds were to be wiped out, the Imperium would not only lose the ability to construct their vehicles but would also lose the ability to make them ever again with the plans long lost.

Eldar: Very small in number compared to their golden years, there is a reason they need to manipulate the larger more populace races, or else they would do it by themselves out of principle. If the Necrons came on in the same force they did all those years ago the Eldar could either flee once more or fight to the death. If the Eldar Death God was born in this slaughter it would not change the fact that the Eldar are extinct.

Dark Eldar: They are more numerous then the Craftworld Eldar but have no benefits to attacking the Necrons, they wont make good slaves because they dont suffer and they are unlikely to obey anybodies orders bar the C'tan. It is more likely if the Necrons did manage to cleanse the universe the Dark Eldar would remain in the webway and fester. They would either wipe each other out or go through the cycle of murder forever.

Orks: Would be difficult to slaughter, possibly even impossible as the Ork breeding system is extremely quick, numerous and highly successfull. I imagine the Necrons would eventually find a way to herd them like cattle and keep them as a useful supply of organic material.

Tyranids: Tyranids is difficult to say, though they are numerous the battles would be very one sided, Necrons would feed very well on the bioorganic material of the Tyranids but the Tyranids would get little to no reward for slughtering an army of Necrons. They would teleport away leaving the Tyranids empty handed and what they do mange to leave behind would be worthless and not nearly enough to restore their losses.
Their war would be more a war of attrition, one which the Necrons would win as long as they can keep their Tomb safe and their life support systems guarded.

Tau: Tau may be dynamic and technolloigcally advanced but they are arrogant, comparably few in number and place far too much faith in the Etherals whose motives and possible mind control schemes are unclear.
Highly unlikely they could stand agains the Necrons.

Chaos: Their mortal followers would fall, their daemonic legions cannot, if the universes are seperated though this isnt an issue.

Space Marines:
Okey doke, now forgetting fanboism and the apparent Ultrasmurf dominace over the other chapters which IS stated in the marine codex. We have to remember that Space marines dont always win simply because they are space marines. They are far less numerous then other races, indeed they do make up for this with super human strength and excellent armour but this is useless when you are facing a race whose main weapon flays your atoms from your armour and then from your flesh.
The many bizzare techologies of the Necrons are an incredibly unpredictable force to be reckoned with, phalanx's of Monoliths can teleport behind a force of Space marines, wipe out all of their vehicles and artillery and then unleash an endles stream of warriors.

The other Space Marine hinderence is their traditions and their actual creation.
Let us say one thousand Necrons are slaughtered in a battle and a thousand Space Marines are slaughtered.

Stage 1:The Necron corpses are already beginning to heal themselves when they are teleported back to their respective Tombs and repaired by their necrodermis and the help of millions of scarabs.

Stage 1:The Space Marines first mourn for the loss of their brothers and give them their respective honours and have them properly buried in the name of the Emperor, removing their genseed for the benfits of future generations.

Stage 2: The Necrons are fully repaired and rearmed, they have learnt the tactics of their enemies and are already formulating a plan to destroy them.

Stage 2: The Space Marines are searching for potential recruits, they will only choose the strongest or most intelligent men they can find. The process takes days and they find fifty worthy recruits.

Stage 3: The Necrons begin the march to the Space Marine Citadel.

Stage 3: The Space Marines are training their recruits in the way of the Scout, unfortunately some of the successfull recruits have rejected the geneseed, though they passed the trials they are gentically unfit to be space marines.

Stage 4: The Necrons attack the Space Marines with the same force they had in their previous battle, the Space Marines are still weakened and have severely less warriors then they had in their previous encounter.

Stage 4: The Space Marines set up for a gallant defence, every marine, scout and serf which can be armed.

Stage 5: The Necrons take heavy casualties from the dying marines but their numbers prove highly effective and the destruction of holy artifacts severely weakens the chapters moral.

Stage 5: The Marines realise they have failed the Emperor, they fight on but are soon wiped out to the last.

The Space Marines lose.

O.o what?
That is a jerk move dude. YOu don't even consider the other facts.

Asherian Command wrote:O.o what?
That is a jerk move dude. YOu don't even consider the other facts.

Oh please go right ahead

May I ask what a jerk move is?

If you mean by my scenario of the Necrons and Space Marines, it was simply a scenario and it is a likely one.

Space marines are less numerous and are rapt in tradition, honour and brotherhood. They would not leave their brothers dead on the fields without proper buriel and ceremony, they are fallen heroes and you dont leave your heroes to rot on the field. They then need to regroup and recruit more space marines, this DOES take time and there ARE complications.
Yoa cant just insert a geneseed into a human and hope for the best, its a complicated procedure which can end up with the host rejecting the seed which could end in ones death, its the equivalent of a organ transplant which dont always go the way you like. Not to mention the other organs which are then inserted into the recruits body which can add to more complications. Sure many will pass with flying colour, many will not, they are the serfs of a chapter. Because by this stage they have learnt enough of the chapter to make them a liability so they will either end as Servitors, death or as serfs so they may serve the Chapter still.

And of course there is the matter of first finding these recruits, you dont just pick a handful and say come with us Space Marines look for certain quialities, feats of strength, intellect etc etc.
And not everybody fits with this standard.
Of course some chapters look for different qualities like faith, agility or stealth but this doesnt change the challenge of finding these individuals.

All this ceremony, tradition, procedure and brotherhood are useless in the eyes of the Necrons who live to harvest, they get hurt, they rebuild themselves and off they go again. Space marines can take days, months or even years to rebuild their forces while Necrons begin immediately and much faster.

Doubtful:

Not without some sort of allies intended or unintended probably Tyranids

Might consider if with mass teleportation.

Luna has a really big gun on it.

GW won't advance the plot.

Asumming they do advance the plot we got The Wolftime, The Lion, Khan all on standby. And with all that noise I'm sure the Emprah would wake up.

ColdFire wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:O.o what?
That is a jerk move dude. YOu don't even consider the other facts.

Oh please go right ahead

May I ask what a jerk move is?

If you mean by my scenario of the Necrons and Space Marines, it was simply a scenario and it is a likely one.

Space marines are less numerous and are rapt in tradition, honour and brotherhood. They would not leave their brothers dead on the fields without proper buriel and ceremony, they are fallen heroes and you dont leave your heroes to rot on the field. They then need to regroup and recruit more space marines, this DOES take time and there ARE complications.
Yoa cant just insert a geneseed into a human and hope for the best, its a complicated procedure which can end up with the host rejecting the seed which could end in ones death, its the equivalent of a organ transplant which dont always go the way you like. Not to mention the other organs which are then inserted into the recruits body which can add to more complications. Sure many will pass with flying colour, many will not, they are the serfs of a chapter. Because by this stage they have learnt enough of the chapter to make them a liability so they will either end as Servitors, death or as serfs so they may serve the Chapter still.

And of course there is the matter of first finding these recruits, you dont just pick a handful and say come with us Space Marines look for certain quialities, feats of strength, intellect etc etc.
And not everybody fits with this standard.
Of course some chapters look for different qualities like faith, agility or stealth but this doesnt change the challenge of finding these individuals.

All this ceremony, tradition, procedure and brotherhood are useless in the eyes of the Necrons who live to harvest, they get hurt, they rebuild themselves and off they go again. Space marines can take days, months or even years to rebuild their forces while Necrons begin immediately and much faster.

You know how bad the Necrons are at maneuvering? They are slow. Not freaking faster than light. The Necrons are a slow race. Their ships are slow. That is their biggest drawback.
The necrons have some of the slowest vehicles EVER.
Thats how the Space marines usually defeat the Necrons, they use fast vechiles to destory the control pylons. And plus heres another kicker.
If you destory all the Control Pylons they phase out.
Their weapons for anti air are good. But once they face ground troops they are screwed.
A single company of marines took out 1,000 necrons. Necrons are not space marines.

IIRC from the BFG rules Necron ships are actually the fastest in game. Strait line of course, as they lose quite a bit in changing direction. Eldar have them beat by quite a bit in rapid course changes whilst maintaing speed. The Necron ships could still change direction faster and with better speed than the IoM ships however.

Anything written from a certain race's perspective I doubt being the absolute truth.

I.E. In Dark Creed the Necron's are an unstoppable force that kill CSMs left and right. Though 20 pages later 100's of warriors apparently refuse to fire their weapons in order to allow the ecscape of the normal SMs. A little lopsided I thought to be honest. Also, in the novel the CSMs are able to teleport through the cut off warp somehow in order to attack the necrons. Balance and abilities shift throughout novels all the time. Yess 100 marines could very well have killed 1000 necrons. In the Necron codex it shows a force of Necrons completely wipe out a group of BTs. It's all for the story. The authors care so little for consistency.

Asherian Command wrote:


You know how bad the Necrons are at maneuvering? They are slow. Not freaking faster than light. The Necrons are a slow race. Their ships are slow. That is their biggest drawback.
The necrons have some of the slowest vehicles EVER.
Thats how the Space marines usually defeat the Necrons, they use fast vechiles to destory the control pylons. And plus heres another kicker.
If you destory all the Control Pylons they phase out.
Their weapons for anti air are good. But once they face ground troops they are screwed.
A single company of marines took out 1,000 necrons. Necrons are not space marines.

Now you see this is where you are wrong, so very wrong.

Firstly, pg 57 of the Necron Codex states that Necron ships move so fast that they are undetectable until they halt to begin an attack, they move possibly faster then light. The enemy must then face an fleet of self repairing ships with such sophisticated cloaks that its like chasing ghosts. Their weapons are nightmarish while they strip the armour of other enemy ships every bit of damage they take begins to repair itself with the always useful necrodermis.

I have no idea where you got the idea of the "control pylons", Necrons dont need them, when they phase out it means they have calculated that they dont have adequate numbers to do the job so they retreat, it has nothing to do with control pylons.

Now onto the rest of the army in terms of slow, I agree. Necrons have given up their organic flesh for incredibly durability and this has made them slower to react. But they have a huge and very useful compensation for this, teleportation and ambush.
Most Necron units can and will do serious damage to any enemy unit they can get in range with so these little benefits make that so much easier without having your army shot to pieces before they get to the enemy. Though even the few units you do lose have a significant chance of simply repairing and standing up once more.

-Monoliths can teleport reinforcements by teleporting behind enemy lines and unleashing more Necron upon the enemy.
-Necron Lords have access to the Veil of Darkness, an ability which allows the Necron Lord and those nearbye to dissapear and reapear right within the enemy.
-Scarabs and Flayed Ones can remain dormant for years under the soil of a planet waiting to rise and when awakened burst forth from the ground and tear their enemies apart.

As for they have good anti air weapons but not ground weapons, are you kidding?
Gauss weaponry strips flesh, metal, whatever of its atomic structure.
It doesnt damage it, it removes it so no matter how tough an enemies armour is it will be broken down to nothing but atoms in the wind.

As for a company of Space Marines took out a thousand Necrons, well duh. They seem to do crap like that every day each time a new Space Marine Codex comes out but it doesnt change the fact that in the grand scheme of things the Necrons heavily outnumber Space Marines, they are more durable, they have ways to compensate for their weakness's, their ships ARE better and their weaponry takes away the biggest advantage Space Marines have, super human strength.

ColdFire wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:


You know how bad the Necrons are at maneuvering? They are slow. Not freaking faster than light. The Necrons are a slow race. Their ships are slow. That is their biggest drawback.
The necrons have some of the slowest vehicles EVER.
Thats how the Space marines usually defeat the Necrons, they use fast vechiles to destory the control pylons. And plus heres another kicker.
If you destory all the Control Pylons they phase out.
Their weapons for anti air are good. But once they face ground troops they are screwed.
A single company of marines took out 1,000 necrons. Necrons are not space marines.

Now you see this is where you are wrong, so very wrong.

Firstly, pg 57 of the Necron Codex states that Necron ships move so fast that they are undetectable until they halt to begin an attack, they move possibly faster then light. The enemy must then face an fleet of self repairing ships with such sophisticated cloaks that its like chasing ghosts. Their weapons are nightmarish wh ile they strip the armour of other enemy ships every bit of damage they take begins to repair itself with the always useful necrodermis.

I have no idea where you got the idea of the "control pylons", Necrons dont need them, when they phase out it means they have calculated that they dont have adequate numbers to do the job so they retreat, it has nothing to do with control pylons.

Now onto the rest of the army in terms of slow, I agree. Necrons have given up their organic flesh for incredibly durability and this has made them slower to react. But they have a huge and very useful compensation for this, teleportation and ambush.
Most Necron units can and will do serious damage to any enemy unit they can get in range with so these little benefits make that so much easier without having your army shot to pieces before they get to the enemy. Though even the few units you do lose have a significant chance of simply repairing and standing up once more.

-Monoliths can teleport reinforcements by teleporting behind enemy lines and unleashing more Necron upon the enemy.
-Necron Lords have access to the Veil of Darkness, an ability which allows the Necron Lord and those nearbye to dissapear and reapear right within the enemy.
-Scarabs and Flayed Ones can remain dormant for years under the soil of a planet waiting to rise and when awakened burst forth from the ground and tear their enemies apart.

As for they have good anti air weapons but not ground weapons, are you kidding?
Gauss weaponry strips flesh, metal, whatever of its atomic structure.
It doesnt damage it, it removes it so no matter how tough an enemies armour is it will be broken down to nothing but atoms in the wind.

As for a company of Space Marines took out a thousand Necrons, well duh. They seem to do crap like that every day each time a new Space Marine Codex comes out but it doesnt change the fact that in the grand scheme of things the Necrons heavily outnumber Space Marines, they are more durable, they have ways to compensate for their weakness's, their ships ARE better and their weaponry takes away the biggest advantage Space Marines have, super human strength.

Maneuverability is everything dude. Necrons can only go in straight lines in vessels as they are moving so fast that they litterally need to turn slowly.
Also You made excellent points about their ships being fast.
I was not talking about their vessels. Their Vessels are freaking uber. And GW needs to work on that. Because it makes no sense that they have the best weapons and everything. There needs to be a nerf on their lore.
Necron ground forces are pretty, well predicatable. And Control Pylons are basically what bring in more necrons, and its how they recieve commands, not only that but if they are destroyed. Necrons are f--ked. As they can no longer communicate, which means they cannot think tactically. And Losing their sentience. sorta like the geth.
Another weakness with them is that when they get into combat with combat oriented squads like vanguard. They Are screwed as their regular squads of warriors basically are fodder.

Actually, I think Chaos would come into this fight: chaos is emotion. Necrons have a resistance to almost every emotion except rage. So, Khorne comes in on the side of the necrons, as he has everything to gain from the death of Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch. Meanwhile, the other three gods would fight [queasiness]on the side of the IoM.[/queasiness]

Wait what?

"There needs to be a nerf on their lore."

I'm not sure why everyone else says this the necrons are made out to be a joke plenty of times. For example the C'tan being idiots on numerous occasions and necrons being used for target practice. Also I don't get why SM, GK, SW and CSM (maybe more?) get to be all Mary Sue and no one complains.

Asherian Command wrote:


Maneuverability is everything dude. Necrons can only go in straight lines in vessels as they are moving so fast that they litterally need to turn slowly.
Also You made excellent points about their ships being fast.
I was not talking about their vessels. Their Vessels are freaking uber. And GW needs to work on that. Because it makes no sense that they have the best weapons and everything. There needs to be a nerf on their lore.
Necron ground forces are pretty, well predicatable. And Control Pylons are basically what bring in more necrons, and its how they recieve commands, not only that but if they are destroyed. Necrons are f--ked. As they can no longer communicate, which means they cannot think tactically. And Losing their sentience. sorta like the geth.
Another weakness with them is that when they get into combat with combat oriented squads like vanguard. They Are screwed as their regular squads of warriors basically are fodder.

I dont neccesarily disagree with you on the importance of manouverability but Necron ships dont neccesarily need it. They are near impossible to actaully spot, they are insanely durable being able to withstand blows which would cripple IoM crafts and their weapons flay apart the protective armour of the enemies vessels. Most of the Necrons enemies are organic and need oxygen so once those life support systems are gone the whole thing goes to hell. Necrons can survive in a vacuum and can continue operating the ship without atmosphere. Races like the Eldar need manouverability because though they are hard hitting they are incredibly fragile, they cant afford to take a hit. The Necrons can.

As for their weapons being super uber, I dont neccesarily think they should have their weaponry dumbed down. They ARE the oldest race in existence and were supremely advanced technologically wise before the Eldar even came into existence, they are masters of the materium. Their weakness is that they are slow to react and awaken, it could take another hundred years or so before the Necrons fully awaken maybe even thousands. There is possibly less of them now due to the few Tomb worlds which have been revealed and destroyed by the Imperium or the Eldar or Chaos etc etc, some Tombs havnt survived the millions years of dormancy and have succumbed to age, their warriors frozen in a entombed state.
The rest of the universes greatest advantage is time, if they dont use it they will be cut down and the Red Harvest will begin.

Could you please also state where you got Control Pylons from, Necrons are not machines, they have a concscious mind which is heavily loyal to the C'tan who gave them eternal life, of course they may be a little mad of the years over becoming unwitting servants to their god like masters but its a small price to pay for the right to eternal life and to act out their hatred on the living.
The process of Necron transformation involved their bitter, hateful souls being place inside Necrodermis bodies to replace their old, feeble and sick organic bodies.

When on the battlefield they act as any other army, they take thier orders and perform them from their general, when the general falls they use their own decisions though more likely at a poorer quality but this isnt different to most races. They arent like Star Wars battledroids who shut down as soon as a control beacon turns off, they are independant in a slave kind of way.

As for combat, yes they are terrible at it. The point of their tactics is to avoid it, they have extremely good ranged weapons so logically they should use them rather then bludgeon the enemy with them. This is sometimes unavoidable, such is war.
Tau shouldnt get into combat but they have to sometimes, Orks are terrible at ranged combat yet they sometimes have entire armies dedicated to it et etc.
It doesnt take away the fact that they are damn good at what their main purpose is, to shoot.

asimo77 wrote:"There needs to be a nerf on their lore."

I'm not sure why everyone else says this the necrons are made out to be a joke plenty of times. For example the C'tan being idiots on numerous occasions and necrons being used for target practice. Also I don't get why SM and CSM get to be all Mary Sue and no one complains.

Well I'm sorry if necrons have WEAPONS THAT CAN DEVASTATE ENTIRE IMPERAIL FLEETS IN ONE SHOT!
At least the dark eldar are fast but have horrible armor. From the lore NEcrons are invincible. Which is plain stupid. And CSM and SM are the first armies dude.

ColdFire wrote:
I

Could you please also state where you got Control Pylons from, Necrons are not machines, they have a concscious mind which is heavily loyal to the C'tan who gave them eternal life, of course they may be a little mad of the years over becoming unwitting servants to their god like masters but its a small price to pay for the right to eternal life and to act out their hatred on the living.
The process of Necron transformation involved their bitter, hateful souls being place inside Necrodermis bodies to replace their old, feeble and sick organic bodies.

When on the battlefield they act as any other army, they take thier orders and perform them from their general, when the general falls they use their own decisions though more likely at a poorer quality but this isnt different to most races. They arent like Star Wars battledroids who shut down as soon as a control beacon turns off, they are independant in a slave kind of way.

As for combat, yes they are terrible at it. The point of their tactics is to avoid it, they have extremely good ranged weapons so logically they should use them rather then bludgeon the enemy with them. This is sometimes unavoidable, such is war.
Tau shouldnt get into combat but they have to sometimes, Orks are terrible at ranged combat yet they sometimes have entire armies dedicated to it et etc.
It doesnt take away the fact that they are damn good at what their main purpose is, to shoot.

Well control Pylons are basically their communication lines. They were mentioned, in the Astral Knights, The battle where the ultramarines 2nd company faced the necrons on a planet but retreated.
Also one thing I ABOUSTELY HATE about the necrons is the C'tan. As every Necron player in my store uses them. And I hate necrons because of it. As No list is complete without that orb thingy that makes all of your units comeback. Which is utter BS. Even when i placed a S-D weapon on them, somehow they comeback! Yeah Necrons can come back from a F--king Void Missile. I also Play Eldar. And I cannot bare to fight necrons. As they are so annoying to play against as they always comeback from my dark reapers slaughter fest.
Anyway when they get into combat they are basically like "Oh f--k. We are so dead." Except when the Night Bringer is around. OMG kill him already! He was blown up on a planet! Destroyed by an extermantius! Destroyed by a Black Stone fortress! yet he survives every time!

Asherian Command wrote:Wait what?

Think about it... the only emotion would be the rage felt by the lords. Since the emotions fuel the gods of chaos, and necrons have, as previously stated, only nerd rage. Khorne benefits, but the other gods, for the most part, die. Not beneficial for them.

abaddon=gargamel wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Wait what?

Think about it... the only emotion would be the rage felt by the lords. Since the emotions fuel the gods of chaos, and necrons have, as previously stated, only nerd rage. Khorne benefits, but the other gods, for the most part, die. Not beneficial for them.

Thats the problem.
Necrons have no feelings. That makes no sense. Necrons are robots. Not Eldar.
They are older than the chaos gods.

"Well I'm sorry if necrons have WEAPONS THAT CAN DEVASTATE ENTIRE IMPERAIL FLEETS IN ONE SHOT!
At least the dark eldar are fast but have horrible armor. From the lore NEcrons are invincible. Which is plain stupid. And CSM and SM are the first armies dude."

But they clearly aren't OMGWTFBBQ pwn sauce, like I said target practice man. If that isnt some sort of equalizier I don't know what is. Also being nigh incinvible is kinda their thing getting rid of it would be like making the tyranids get full. Also I don't see how Sm and CSM being first allows them to be perfect (though in the universe timeline the necrons came first...)

Btw are the command pylons thing supposed to be the command nodes? I'm talking about the command structure in which there is always a set amount of lords of every level (bronze, silver, etc). They basically promote lower tier lords to ensure command hierarchy is left intact.

Or are you referencing something entriely different?

asimo77 wrote:"Well I'm sorry if necrons have WEAPONS THAT CAN DEVASTATE ENTIRE IMPERAIL FLEETS IN ONE SHOT!
At least the dark eldar are fast but have horrible armor. From the lore NEcrons are invincible. Which is plain stupid. And CSM and SM are the first armies dude."

But they clearly aren't OMGWTFBBQ pwn sauce, like I said target practice man. If that isnt some sort of equalizier I don't know what is. Also being nigh incinvible is kinda their thing getting rid of it would be like making the tyranids get full. Also I don't see how Sm and CSM being first allows them to be perfect (though in the universe timeline the necrons came first...)

Btw are the command pylons thing supposed to be the command nodes? I'm talking about the command structure in which there is always a set amount of lords of every level (bronze, silver, etc). They basically promote lower tier lords to ensure command hierarchy is left intact.

Or are you referencing something entriely different?

Mostly Likely the Command Nodes.
I just dislike the Necrons. Call me racist. but They look like funky disco marines.

Asherian Command wrote:
Necrons have no feelings. That makes no sense. Necrons are robots. Not Eldar.
They are older than the chaos gods.

As I mentioned before, Necrons are NOT robots, the process of a Necrons transformation is the removal of the Necrontyr's bitter, hate-filled soul and placing it in a artificial necrodermis body, more like a psuedo-spirit cyborg. Its soul is conscious though it is confined to the body of an automaton, the only true robots in the entire race are the scarabs and Tomb Spyders which all function with AI rather then an actual thinking mind.

Though I would not call their emotion rage, more like hate. Rage is anger, Hate is more of a loathing, the Necron hate all life because they used to have such terribly short and sick lives while others had long and fulfilling lives. Their jealousy turned to hate and when they made their deal with the C'tan they were free to not only mockingly live longer then their enemies but they were given the power to take their enemies lives away from them.
I think abaddon-gargamel means to say that the Necrons are unwittingly feeding the power of Khorne which is possible as hate is an emotion which embodies Khorne.

As for Necrons being older the the Chaos gods, this is unlikely.
If we ignore the fact that in the warp time does not exist and everything has existed forever and simultaneously never existed there is still the fact that the Chaos gods are born of the most primal emotions which even basic organisms can feel. There were races before the Necrons, the Old Ones made many more.
All of these races would know the four basic emotions of nature lust, hope, despair and bloodlust.
The Chaos gods have existed as long as there were organisms, they embody these emotions in a physical way, well as physical as warp material can get I guess.

As long as the universe has existed, the warp has existed. Our universe is one of incredible structure, order and regularity, the warp is one of incredible chaos, spontaneous flux's of energy and a whirlpool of psychic conscious and emotions with no purpose, reason or motive.

ColdFire wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
Necrons have no feelings. That makes no sense. Necrons are robots. Not Eldar.
They are older than the chaos gods.

As I mentioned before, Necrons are NOT robots, the process of a Necrons transformation is the removal of the Necrontyr's bitter, hate-filled soul and placing it in a artificial necrodermis body, more like a psuedo-spirit cyborg. Its soul is conscious though it is confined to the body of an automaton, the only true robots in the entire race are the scarabs and Tomb Spyders which all function with AI rather then an actual thinking mind.

Though I would not call their emotion rage, more like hate. Rage is anger, Hate is more of a loathing, the Necron hate all life because they used to have such terribly short and sick lives while others had long and fulfilling lives. Their jealousy turned to hate and when they made their deal with the C'tan they were free to not only mockingly live longer then their enemies but they were given the power to take their enemies lives away from them.
I think abaddon-gargamel means to say that the Necrons are unwittingly feeding the power of Khorne which is possible as hate is an emotion which embodies Khorne.

As for Necrons being older the the Chaos gods, this is unlikely.
If we ignore the fact that in the warp time does not exist and everything has existed forever and simultaneously never existed there is still the fact that the Chaos gods are born of the most primal emotions which even basic organisms can feel. There were races before the Necrons, the Old Ones made many more.
All of these races would know the four basic emotions of nature lust, hope, despair and bloodlust.
The Chaos gods have existed as long as there were organisms, they embody these emotions in a physical way, well as physical as warp material can get I guess.

As long as the universe has existed, the warp has existed. Our universe is one of incredible structure, order and regularity, the warp is one of incredible chaos, spontaneous flux's of energy and a whirlpool of psychic conscious and emotions with no purpose, reason or motive.

Well i found that wrong. As the chaos God Slaaneesh is a realtively new God.

The codex quite clearly points out this god showed up then this one, then this one, and so on. Within the warp time is crazy I guess, but it was calm before. Also I think much like tau they have no warp presence and such their emotions, if they have any, should not alter the warp at all.

Besides the warp/chaos is the number 1 enemy of the C'tan and necrons would be kinda bizzare for them to have any part in it. Also no necron psykers, cold hard science kinda seems to be their theme.

asimo77 wrote:The codex quite clearly points out this god showed up then this one, then this one, and so on. Within the warp time is crazy I guess, but it was calm before. Also I think much like tau they have no warp presence and such their emotions, if they have any, should not alter the warp at all.

Besides the warp/chaos is the number 1 enemy of the C'tan and necrons would be kinda bizzare for them to have any part in it. Also no necron psykers, cold hard science kinda seems to be their theme.

Yep. Not disagreeing there. Their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness.

Asherian Command wrote:Well i found that wrong. As the chaos God Slaaneesh is a realtively new God.

Well yes, fluff on the chaos realm and the warp is confusing.

Though in the materium Slaanesh came to life because of the decadence and hedonism of the Eldar in the warp Slaanesh has always existed, I wonder if perhaps the term "birthing" in thsi regard is not trully in the sense we know as in giving birth to a being but more the concentration of all that raw emotion specifically up Slaanesh's alley was so strong that it allowed Slaanesh to be momentarily "birthed" into the material universe which subsequently killed most of the Eldar gods, wiped out their civilization and had them marked genetically for life as soul food.

How it is explained in the fluff is...

In the materium there is time and a timeline for all existence, the Eldar know that Slaanesh existed after the fall when she actually burst forth into the materium and wiped most of them out. This happened in a pin point in time because time is structured in ther materium.

In the warp time does not exist, the past, the present and the future are all occuring simultaneously in a whirlwind of conflict, peace time and great moments. It is mind boggling to us because we come from a realm that is structured, ordered and timed. In the warp though they would find us confusing as we break their laws of existence. Structure is abnormal in the warp and so is time. Though Slaanesh was found to exist in the materium at the fall of the Eldar in the warp she, he, it whatever has always existed and is old as the other gods themselves.

But like I said it is confusing, non sensical and absurd at times but that is what the warp is.

ColdFire wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Well i found that wrong. As the chaos God Slaaneesh is a realtively new God.

Well yes, fluff on the chaos realm and the warp is confusing.

Though in the materium Slaanesh came to life because of the decadence and hedonism of the Eldar in the warp Slaanesh has always existed, I wonder if perhaps the term "birthing" in thsi regard is not trully in the sense we know as in giving birth to a being but more the concentration of all that raw emotion specifically up Slaanesh's alley was so strong that it allowed Slaanesh to be momentarily "birthed" into the material universe which subsequently killed most of the Eldar gods, wiped out their civilization and had them marked genetically for life as soul food.

How it is explained in the fluff is...

In the materium there is time and a timeline for all existence, the Eldar know that Slaanesh existed after the fall when she actually burst forth into the materium and wiped most of them out. This happened in a pin point in time because time is structured in ther materium.

In the warp time does not exist, the past, the present and the future are all occuring simultaneously in a whirlwind of conflict, peace time and great moments. It is mind boggling to us because we come from a realm that is structured, ordered and timed. In the warp though they would find us confusing as we break their laws of existence. Structure is abnormal in the warp and so is time. Though Slaanesh was found to exist in the materium at the fall of the Eldar in the warp she, he, it whatever has always existed and is old as the other gods themselves.

But like I said it is confusing, non sensical and absurd at times but that is what the warp is.

I am already confused....

Sorry gotta go, got work but will reply when I get back

Well I just hope the necrons, tau, and to a lesser extent tyranids don't muddle with chaos/warp too much it's nice having guys completely alien from all the other races and removed even from things as hoary and mystical as the warp and psykers.

The best part of this discussion is i have a respect for necrons and i have lost my respect to the tau even more now.

If the Necrons made it to Terra, and I am sure they could if they wanted to, they would easily be able to destroy it. If the planetary defenses could not stop a measly - what, 4 ships? - from landing, how would they fare against an actual invasion force? It's just one fragile planet, upon which life is completely dependent on the presence of the single celestial body that the C'Tan prefer to ingest.

Of course, it makes no sense for them to do so, just as we don't kill every cattle herd on the planet simultaneously: we'd have lots of beef we couldn't eat all of for a little bit, and then all the beef would be gone. Better to just eat enough beef, forever, from a self-replenishing stock.

O.o
Yes a planet surronded by thousands of vessels and some of the largest amount of defence platforms. Plus those were on mars D:

In the back of the Codex:Necrons it says regarding Mars

Penetration of Martian defenses by five xeno starships. Threat neutralised and landing site quarantined

I suspect the reasons they were able to land on Mars was because they went to a forbidden area, somewhere that nobody cared about and were in small craft.

you are kidding yourself if you think the necrons can destroy terra that easily. Its not going to be like when the minbari attacked Earth.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:In the back of the Codex:Necrons it says regarding Mars

Penetration of Martian defenses by five xeno starships. Threat neutralised and landing site quarantined

I suspect the reasons they were able to land on Mars was because they went to a forbidden area, somewhere that nobody cared about and were in small craft.

you are kidding yourself if you think the necrons can destroy terra that easily. Its not going to be like when the minbari attacked Earth.

Isn't that also when the Admech turned up with a ship of unseen design and went Pzzapp! on them as well?
Admech have more toys then they let on in the Terran system, old toys...

Well i was reading off the back of the Codex:necrons. and it doesnt mention mechanicum at all (on that page).

And there is a story about the "necrons" feeding off mechanicum enhancements. but that was a crazy guy telling a story, and he had ripped out all his enhancements, which i imagine would be the worst thing to a Mechanicus Adept

ChaosGalvatron wrote:I suspect the reasons they were able to land on Mars was because they went to a forbidden area, somewhere that nobody cared about and were in small craft.

Yes, I agree - Mars, generally speaking, is not considered important to the Imperium. Someplace no one cares about, indeed.

My point remains - 5 small craft, penetrated far into the solar system, one was able to land. If they can do that with 5 scouts, what can they do with 500 freighters, carriers, cruisers and battleships?

No. i dont mean Mars is somewhat insignificant. i mean that it is a planet, some places are important, some arent. the necrons probably went to where the Dragon is, which is a forbidden area. so it wasnt as well protected as all the factories etc.
I didnt mean to imply that the Terran solar system had easy to defeat defenses.

If a necron fleet showed up it would get met with maximum force. And of all the systems in the Imperium, Terra is the best defended.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:No. i dont mean Mars is somewhat insignificant. i mean that it is a planet, some places are important, some arent. the necrons probably went to where the Dragon is, which is a forbidden area. so it wasnt as well protected as all the factories etc.
I didnt mean to imply that the Terran solar system had easy to defeat defenses.

If a necron fleet showed up it would get met with maximum force. And of all the systems in the Imperium, Terra is the best defended.

I'd have thought the Cadian Gate would be better defended, seeing as it has come under far more sustained attacks over the years.
Besides if Horus could break through the defenses of Terra, utilising the same Technology (plus Chaotic things) that the defenders had, and those involved in defeating Vandire during the age of Apostasy (apologies if that name isn't correct) were also able to march into Terra and inflict serious damage upon it, then imagine what the Necrons who are lightyears ahead of us in Tech could do.

Terra may be the heart of the Imperium, but it hasn't seen the same amount of conflict as other places have in the 'recent' years. In fact the Tyranid codex states that they are having to rebuild/strengthen the defenses of Terra in preperation to the Hive Fleets oncoming arrival. If this is the case, the defenses aren't up to much, and as previously mentioned reinforcements are not always reliable in getting where thay are needed on time

Do necrons even have anything more powerful than there monolith for land battles? If not they would get screwed by a load of titans when they came down.

Storm Lord wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:No. i dont mean Mars is somewhat insignificant. i mean that it is a planet, some places are important, some arent. the necrons probably went to where the Dragon is, which is a forbidden area. so it wasnt as well protected as all the factories etc.
I didnt mean to imply that the Terran solar system had easy to defeat defenses.

If a necron fleet showed up it would get met with maximum force. And of all the systems in the Imperium, Terra is the best defended.

I'd have thought the Cadian Gate would be better defended, seeing as it has come under far more sustained attacks over the years.
Besides if Horus could break through the defenses of Terra, utilising the same Technology (plus Chaotic things) that the defenders had, and those involved in defeating Vandire during the age of Apostasy (apologies if that name isn't correct) were also able to march into Terra and inflict serious damage upon it, then imagine what the Necrons who are lightyears ahead of us in Tech could do.

Terra may be the heart of the Imperium, but it hasn't seen the same amount of conflict as other places have in the 'recent' years. In fact the Tyranid codex states that they are having to rebuild/strengthen the defenses of Terra in preperation to the Hive Fleets oncoming arrival. If this is the case, the defenses aren't up to much, and as previously mentioned reinforcements are not always reliable in getting where thay are needed on time

Dude the Terra has been rebuilding because of the reign of blood.
And not only that but the imperium of man at the time of the hersey was 1/4 vs 3/4.
So you can see the big problem here can't you? And not only that but horus had daemons. Imperium did not. And now terra is the most well defended place in the entire imperium

Ouze wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:I suspect the reasons they were able to land on Mars was because they went to a forbidden area, somewhere that nobody cared about and were in small craft.

Yes, I agree - Mars, generally speaking, is not considered important to the Imperium. Someplace no one cares about, indeed.

My point remains - 5 small craft, penetrated far into the solar system, one was able to land. If they can do that with 5 scouts, what can they do with 500 freighters, carriers, cruisers and battleships?

How is Mars insignificant to the Imperium?, the Mechanicum is possibly their greatest allie and provides them with all of their vehicles, weapons and technology. Mars sends thousands of enginseers and mech priests across the Imperium to repair, build and bring life to the machine spirit. Its most important feature those is its holy relics, while the Imperium's holy relics usually resemble things like the sword of a long lost hero, the armour of a saint etc etc, the Mechanicum's holy relics are far more useful. They are blueprints to the actual building of the many vehicles the Imperium uses, they dont mass produce these prints as they dont want them in the wrong hands or in the hands of heretics so they memorize it.

If Mars went down the Mechanicum would be struck a heavy blow and the Imperium would be on its way to a second Dark Age of Technology.

As for the Necrons managing to set foot on Mars, I imagine this is because the Imperium has found that Necron craft move so fast that they are undetectable until they actually stop, so the Necrons could get a pretty good head start before Mars actually knew anything was going on.

ColdFire wrote:

Ouze wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:I suspect the reasons they were able to land on Mars was because they went to a forbidden area, somewhere that nobody cared about and were in small craft.

Yes, I agree - Mars, generally speaking, is not considered important to the Imperium. Someplace no one cares about, indeed.

My point remains - 5 small craft, penetrated far into the solar system, one was able to land. If they can do that with 5 scouts, what can they do with 500 freighters, carriers, cruisers and battleships?

How is Mars insignificant to the Imperium?, the Mechanicum is possibly their greatest allie and provides them with all of their vehicles, weapons and technology. Mars sends thousands of enginseers and mech priests across the Imperium to repair, build and bring life to the machine spirit. Its most important feature those is its holy relics, while the Imperium's holy relics usually resemble things like the sword of a long lost hero, the armour of a saint etc etc, the Mechanicum's holy relics are far more useful. They are blueprints to the actual building of the many vehicles the Imperium uses, they dont mass produce these prints as they dont want them in the wrong hands or in the hands of heretics so they memorize it.

If Mars went down the Mechanicum would be struck a heavy blow and the Imperium would be on its way to a second Dark Age of Technology.

As for the Necrons managing to set foot on Mars, I imagine this is because the Imperium has found that Necron craft move so fast that they are undetectable until they actually stop, so the Necrons could get a pretty good head start before Mars actually knew anything was going on.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say he is being sarcastic.

purplefood wrote:

ColdFire wrote:

Ouze wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:I suspect the reasons they were able to land on Mars was because they went to a forbidden area, somewhere that nobody cared about and were in small craft.

Yes, I agree - Mars, generally speaking, is not considered important to the Imperium. Someplace no one cares about, indeed.

My point remains - 5 small craft, penetrated far into the solar system, one was able to land. If they can do that with 5 scouts, what can they do with 500 freighters, carriers, cruisers and battleships?

How is Mars insignificant to the Imperium?, the Mechanicum is possibly their greatest allie and provides them with all of their vehicles, weapons and technology. Mars sends thousands of enginseers and mech priests across the Imperium to repair, build and bring life to the machine spirit. Its most important feature those is its holy relics, while the Imperium's holy relics usually resemble things like the sword of a long lost hero, the armour of a saint etc etc, the Mechanicum's holy relics are far more useful. They are blueprints to the actual building of the many vehicles the Imperium uses, they dont mass produce these prints as they dont want them in the wrong hands or in the hands of heretics so they memorize it.

If Mars went down the Mechanicum would be struck a heavy blow and the Imperium would be on its way to a second Dark Age of Technology.

As for the Necrons managing to set foot on Mars, I imagine this is because the Imperium has found that Necron craft move so fast that they are undetectable until they actually stop, so the Necrons could get a pretty good head start before Mars actually knew anything was going on.

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say he is being sarcastic.

I'm gonna agree.
Also, yes, my point was that the necrons are unknowingly feeding Khorne, but none of the other gods. So, they would help kill all of the necrons. Meanwhile, the Blood Forces of Khorne would fight on the necron side, so you have to consider chaos in as well. though, they would not come into play much, because of the astronomican.
maybe, they would, with the astronomican helping the SM chapters to get to Terra.

purplefood wrote:Im gonna go out on a limb here and say he is being sarcastic.

Yes. I'd imagine the 3 top defended planets in imperium held territories are, in order: Cadia, Mars, Terra.

So far as that Khorne thing, where are you getting that? How could they be feeding Khorne? They don't feel bloodlust, or exultation, rage, or triumph, anger or joy. They don't feel anything. I doubt a slaughterhouse employee carving up sides of beef has any personal animosity towards the cattle, and a worship that consists of unfeeling work is pretty poor worship.

The necrons have existed BEFORE the chaos gods. It is clearly pointed out by the eldar! The Necronyt and the C'tan are the oldest living races. (i just read like thousands of articles dealing with the necrons, but still they have alot of problems)

Thanks purplefood for showing DakkaDakka my sarcasm metre wasnt turned on

Asherian Command wrote:The necrons have existed BEFORE the chaos gods. It is clearly pointed out by the eldar! The Necronyt and the C'tan are the oldest living races. (i just read like thousands of articles dealing with the necrons, but still they have alot of problems)

No they havnt, true they are ancient but there were many races which existed before them and the Old Ones are just one of them. Necrontyr were just a race who suffered horribly at the hands of a cancerous star, unwittingly discovered star vampires and were tricked into eternal servitude. But at the time they were not the oldest living things in the universe, noone knows who that is. It is hinted that the C'tan have existed for an immense amount of time before they were encased in necrodermis but whether or not they were around at the beggining of time is yet to be stated.

As I said before the Warp has existed ever since the dawn of the universe, it exists simultaneously with the materium. The Chaos Gods are the emotions of all living things fuelled and nurtured in the psychic womb which is the warp, as long as there has been a living being to feel the Chaos Gods have existed.

It is never clearly pointed out by the Eldar and for someone who apparently read thousands of articles on Necrons "which I highly doubt that many exist" you dont seem to know what you are talking about, Im trying to be as nice as possible but you seem to blatantly disregard all fluff which isnt Space Marines and hold the super humans up on a pedestal as the ultimate force in the universe which none can stop. Its like talking to a brick wall, sorry again if I come off as rude, Ive had a long, bad day.

ColdFire wrote:Thanks purplefood for showing DakkaDakka my sarcasm metre wasnt turned on

Asherian Command wrote:The necrons have existed BEFORE the chaos gods. It is clearly pointed out by the eldar! The Necronyt and the C'tan are the oldest living races. (i just read like thousands of articles dealing with the necrons, but still they have alot of problems)

No they havnt, true they are ancient but there were many races which existed before them and the Old Ones are just one of them. Necrontyr were just a race who suffered horribly at the hands of a cancerous star, unwittingly discovered star vampires and were tricked into eternal servitude. But at the time they were not the oldest living things in the universe, noone knows who that is. It is hinted that the C'tan have existed for an immense amount of time before they were encased in necrodermis but whether or not they were around at the beggining of time is yet to be stated.

As I said before the Warp has existed ever since the dawn of the universe, it exists simultaneously with the materium. The Chaos Gods are the emotions of all living things fuelled and nurtured in the psychic womb which is the warp, as long as there has been a living being to feel the Chaos Gods have existed.

It is never clearly pointed out by the Eldar and for someone who apparently read thousands of articles on Necrons "which I highly doubt that many exist" you dont seem to know what you are talking about, Im trying to be as nice as possible but you seem to blatantly disregard all fluff which isnt Space Marines and hold the super humans up on a pedestal as the ultimate force in the universe which none can stop. Its like talking to a brick wall, sorry again if I come off as rude, Ive had a long, bad day.

oh really?
http://dawnofwar.wikia.com/wiki/Necrons
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/C%27tan
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron

One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

the necronyt and the old ones are the oldest living races before the Chaos Gods were evil.

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

the necronyt and the old ones are the oldest living races before the Chaos Gods were evil.

But dinosaurs...

purplefood wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

the necronyt and the old ones are the oldest living races before the Chaos Gods were evil.

But dinosaurs...

Are still younger.
Old ones= Cold Blooded Gods.

So in 40k dinosaurs are gods... yeah i can live with that

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

Even thought we know the Necrons co-existed with dinosaurs, we don't know if they ever rode them.

But they probably did!

Ouze wrote:

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

Even thought we know the Necrons co-existed with dinosaurs, we don't know if they ever rode them.

But they probably did!

Regenerating robots riding dinosaurs... awesome

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

the necronyt and the old ones are the oldest living races before the Chaos Gods were evil.

You must be kidding?

Your own quote states that the Necrontyr existed 60 000 000 before the 41st Millenium, it even states that Old Ones were around long before them. You know what that means, Old Ones were known for creating life on planets, the Eldar and the Krork were not their only creations, that means that by the time the Necrontyr even came into existence they probably produced hundreds of species across the galaxy.

As for your C'tan quote, "it is said that the C'tan are the oldest beings in existence".

While Im not denying the possibility, this really isnt a fact, its a rumour.

ColdFire wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

purplefood wrote:One of those articles said that the Necrons existed 60,000,000 years before the 41st milenium... weren't dinosaurs around before then?

the necronyt and the old ones are the oldest living races before the Chaos Gods were evil.

You must be kidding?

Your own quote states that the Necrontyr existed 60 000 000 before the 41st Millenium, it even states that Old Ones were around long before them. You know what that means, Old Ones were known for creating life on planets, the Eldar and the Krork were not their only creations, that means that by the time the Necrontyr even came into existence they probably produced hundreds of species across the galaxy.

As for your C'tan quote, "it is said that the C'tan are the oldest beings in existence".

While Im not denying the possibility, this really isnt a fact, its a rumour.

dude chaos gods in 40k are relatively new. The eldar even stated that because so many races have fallen in the past 20,000,000 years that the chaos gods are birthed by this.
The necrons are the oldest LIVING RACE!
OMG WTF ARE YOU NOT GETTING!
THE OLDEST LIVING RACE
highlight the living part. You will see that Are the eldar still the same since the 60,000,000 years ago? no! Are they better no. The necrons are back but their species number has not changed dramatically. They are the oldest living race. The Eldar and all the other races that use pyschic powers were made after the first war with necronyt. So the necrons are older.

The psychic races were made during the second war when the Old Ones began to lose ground.
Also aren't the Old ones older than the Necrontyr? Because from what i have read it was the Necrontyr, th old ones and the C'tan around at that time and no one else... apart from dinosaurs (my little joke)

Asherian Command wrote:
dude chaos gods in 40k are relatively new. The eldar even stated that because so many races have fallen in the past 20,000,000 years that the chaos gods are birthed by this.
The necrons are the oldest LIVING RACE!
OMG WTF ARE YOU NOT GETTING!
THE OLDEST LIVING RACE
highlight the living part. You will see that Are the eldar still the same since the 60,000,000 years ago? no! Are they better no. The necrons are back but their species number has not changed dramatically. They are the oldest living race. The Eldar and all the other races that use pyschic powers were made after the first war with necronyt. So the necrons are older.

Woah there, simmer down a little.

Firstly Eldar and Orks were not created after the war, the Old Ones were wiped out after the War so how would they have made them. If you are attempting to say that Necrons are some of the oldest INDIVIDUALS in the 40k universe I would agree, the Necrons today are the same generation of Necrons who fought all those years ago, Eldar have long lifespands but not that long and Orks tend to die early or have relatively normal lifespans.

But we are not talking about Individuals we are talking about species and how long they have existed, in this case it could be argued that Orks and Eldar have existed just as long because its actually mentioned that though the Eldar and Orks were nurtured towards war and violence against the Necrons they were made long before that.

ColdFire wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
dude chaos gods in 40k are relatively new. The eldar even stated that because so many races have fallen in the past 20,000,000 years that the chaos gods are birthed by this.
The necrons are the oldest LIVING RACE!
OMG WTF ARE YOU NOT GETTING!
THE OLDEST LIVING RACE
highlight the living part. You will see that Are the eldar still the same since the 60,000,000 years ago? no! Are they better no. The necrons are back but their species number has not changed dramatically. They are the oldest living race. The Eldar and all the other races that use pyschic powers were made after the first war with necronyt. So the necrons are older.

Woah there, simmer down a little.

Firstly Eldar and Orks were not created after the war, the Old Ones were wiped out after the War so how would they have made them. If you are attempting to say that Necrons are some of the oldest INDIVIDUALS in the 40k universe I would agree, the Necrons today are the same generation of Necrons who fought all those years ago, Eldar have long lifespands but not that long and Orks tend to die early or have relatively normal lifespans.

But we are not talking about Individuals we are talking about species and how long they have existed, in this case it could be argued that Orks and Eldar have existed just as long because its actually mentioned that though the Eldar and Orks were nurtured towards war and violence against the Necrons they were made long before that.

Dude the Necrons fought the Old ones in a war Before the Eldar even existed!
Also dude it was not orcs. It was ape like creatures. Orcs are descendants of the Kroks. But no Orcs are not the oldest race.
If anything the Slann are.

Asherian Command wrote:Dude the Necrons fought the Old ones in a war Before the Eldar even existed!
Also dude it was not orcs. It was ape like creatures. Orcs are descendants of the Kroks. But no Orcs are not the oldest race.
If anything the Slann are.

I think your getting two universes mixed up now since apparently the Fantasy and 40k universes are seperate, i dont like it but thats how it is.
Slann?
Slann dont currently exist in the 40k universe and even if they did the Slann were nothing but a slave race to the Old Ones, willing slaves but slaves none the less.

As for Orks I think that is debatable, the Ork legend of their origins "as we all know Orks dont actually keep trakc of history" the Orks were created by the Brainboyz, whether this is a hint to the Old Ones or if the Krork were these "Brainboyz" we will probably never know.

But this is getting off topic.
The Necrons did not fight in a war with the Old Ones before the Eldar existed, the Necrons could not do much without their deal with the C'tan, just as the C'tan had the Necrons as minions the Old Ones had Eldar and Krork's as their minions. But it is believed that both Krorks and Eldar existed before hand and were guided by the Old Ones into more warlike civilizations to help in the oncoming war.

Apologies for the long post, but I would just like to add a few things from the necron codex fluff to this discussion.


Age of the C`tan
p24 necron codex:
"It is said that the creation of the star gods took place during the creation of the universe itself... Long before planets had formed and cooled.."

So I would say that the C`tan is the oldest beings in the universe.

Age of Old Ones
p24 necron codex
"the planets eventually gave rise to life which began the long climb to sentience. First to cross the sea of stars was a race of beings called the old ones"

So in my understanding the first sentient space race was the Old Ones.

About the Necrontyr (necrons before servitude)
p24 necron codex
"As the old ones spread across the galaxy, younger fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrontyr was such a race"

The necrontyr expanded their empire and started colonizing other worlds, this is how they met the Old ones and the "war in heaven" started

The old ones pushed the necrontyr close to extinction (pushed them back to their home planet)

And then the Necrontyr met the C`tan...

RE: speed of necron ships:
P24 necron codex
(after joining up with the C`tan)
"Armed with weapons of god-like power and ships that could cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye"

PS. keep in mind that necrons don't use warp travel, so they have to travel multiple times the speed of light to "cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye"

Creation of Eldar:
p24 necron codex
"The C`tan now dominated the galaxy. The last bastions of the old ones were besieged and the races they had nurtured became cattle..."
"... Eventually even the Old ones, legendary for their patience and implacability became desperate. They manipulated life into new forms with an even stronger link to the warp..."
"... these included the earliest Eldar,..."

Birth of chaos gods:
p26 necron codex
"The growing pains of the younger races threw the untapped energies of the warp into disorder.... The maelstroms of spirits unleashed in the carnage coalesced into the previously formless energies of the warp"

Creation of the orks:
p26 necron codex
"The old ones brought forth newer creations to defend their last strongholds, like the hardy green skinned krork..."

Granted, it does not say ork, but it would seem safe to presume that the old krorks in the current orks

Who won the war between the necrons and the old ones:
p26 necron codex
"The necrons has been vindicated in their persuit of cold science, and had the undoubted pleasure of seeing the old ones civilization collapse..."

According to me, if you're in a war and your enemies civilization collapses, that count as a win in my book... might be wrong though

Then the suggestion that the Enslavers beat the necrons:
"They (C`tan) would allow the enslaver to take what was left and let the galaxy become a wasteland, the psyker swarm would die away and in time the galaxy would throw upnew life for the C`tan to consume."

So just to summarise:
First there were the C`tan
Second were the Old ones
Third were the necrontyr
Fourth were the Necrons (if you would like to add them as a race, since the creation of the necrons killed off the necrontyr)
Fith were the Eldar
Sixth were the Chaos gods as we know them now
Seventh were the kroks (orks)

Now you might ask were is the precious space mareens and humans in this picture...

well according to page 9 the human race were still swinging on trees during the war of heaven:
"the Mon-Keigh were nothing , They were comical tree beasts, part of the eco-system of their world"

Just my 2c

asimo77 wrote:The C'tan don't really seem interested in wiining per se. For example the C'tan could just eat Terra's star if they really wanted to. I think they just want to have fun really.

I think the necron lords themselves probably just want to sleep or kill the C'tan for what they did to them. There might be a few who are still raging at living races for having flesh or whatever, basically old school jealousy like they had with the old ones.

.

I thought Necron Lords are just beacons for c'tan to control the necron army?.

Isn't Terra where the machine god lives? why would he eat his own planet lol...i doubt it would be that easy for them to eat planets or else why need a necron army to help them.

Tai-Pan wrote:Apologies for the long post, but I would just like to add a few things from the necron codex fluff to this discussion.


Age of the C`tan
p24 necron codex:
"It is said that the creation of the star gods took place during the creation of the universe itself... Long before planets had formed and cooled.."

So I would say that the C`tan is the oldest beings in the universe.

Age of Old Ones
p24 necron codex
"the planets eventually gave rise to life which began the long climb to sentience. First to cross the sea of stars was a race of beings called the old ones"

So in my understanding the first sentient space race was the Old Ones.

About the Necrontyr (necrons before servitude)
p24 necron codex
"As the old ones spread across the galaxy, younger fiercer races struggled in their wake. The Necrontyr was such a race"

The necrontyr expanded their empire and started colonizing other worlds, this is how they met the Old ones and the "war in heaven" started

The old ones pushed the necrontyr close to extinction (pushed them back to their home planet)

And then the Necrontyr met the C`tan...

RE: speed of necron ships:
P24 necron codex
(after joining up with the C`tan)
"Armed with weapons of god-like power and ships that could cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye"

PS. keep in mind that necrons don't use warp travel, so they have to travel multiple times the speed of light to "cross the galaxy in the blink of an eye"

Creation of Eldar:
p24 necron codex
"The C`tan now dominated the galaxy. The last bastions of the old ones were besieged and the races they had nurtured became cattle..."
"... Eventually even the Old ones, legendary for their patience and implacability became desperate. They manipulated life into new forms with an even stronger link to the warp..."
"... these included the earliest Eldar,..."

Birth of chaos gods:
p26 necron codex
"The growing pains of the younger races threw the untapped energies of the warp into disorder.... The maelstroms of spirits unleashed in the carnage coalesced into the previously formless energies of the warp"

Creation of the orks:
p26 necron codex
"The old ones brought forth newer creations to defend their last strongholds, like the hardy green skinned krork..."

Granted, it does not say ork, but it would seem safe to presume that the old krorks in the current orks

Who won the war between the necrons and the old ones:
p26 necron codex
"The necrons has been vindicated in their persuit of cold science, and had the undoubted pleasure of seeing the old ones civilization collapse..."

According to me, if you're in a war and your enemies civilization collapses, that count as a win in my book... might be wrong though

Then the suggestion that the Enslavers beat the necrons:
"They (C`tan) would allow the enslaver to take what was left and let the galaxy become a wasteland, the psyker swarm would die away and in time the galaxy would throw upnew life for the C`tan to consume."

So just to summarise:
First there were the C`tan
Second were the Old ones
Third were the necrontyr
Fourth were the Necrons (if you would like to add them as a race, since the creation of the necrons killed off the necrontyr)
Fith were the Eldar
Sixth were the Chaos gods as we know them now
Seventh were the kroks (orks)

Now you might ask were is the precious space mareens and humans in this picture...

well according to page 9 the human race were still swinging on trees during the war of heaven:
"the Mon-Keigh were nothing , They were comical tree beasts, part of the eco-system of their world"

Just my 2c

Its an excellent summary

Thanks for clearing that stuff up even if I was wrong in some of it.

ColdFire wrote:

Its an excellent summary

Thanks for clearing that stuff up even if I was wrong in some of it.

Thank you for the compliment. Much appreciated.

Yeah the Slann are hinted in Rouge trader XD