Pretty interesting interview with (In my opinion) GW's best dex writer and (In everyone's opinion) GW's best sculptor. The info states a video a day this week as well....GW should do more of this!
The video didn't tell us anything new. The Fall has already been known for quite some time, and the Dark Eldar being the "lets continue hedonism" Eldar has also been known.
As BOLS noted, it is good to know the GW-official pronunciation of Commorragagagaaaahhh.
Actually the way their capital came into existance was new as far as codex fluff goes. The mini pockets of hidden debauchery in the webway was pretty cool. The obvious enjoyment both of them got out of talking about it also was fun.
I'm enjoying these vids. I think a lot of people used to complain about the lack of DE fluff, but seems like they've gone from one extreme to the other.
I like the fact there's a reason for the torture other than they enjoy doing it. The need to 'top up' their depleting souls is a neat concept.
Flashman wrote:I'm enjoying these vids. I think a lot of people used to complain about the lack of DE fluff, but seems like they've gone from one extreme to the other.
I like the fact there's a reason for the torture other than they enjoy doing it. The need to 'top up' their depleting souls is a neat concept.
They sort of sneakily put that concept in edgewise in DoW: Soulstorm, didn't they?
BrookM wrote:I like how Phil is slowly turning into Andy Chambers.
I was going to say that Phil looked a lot like wolverine, but after a quick search for Andy Chambers (I've only been in the hobby for a year ) I am inclined to agree heavily.
BrookM wrote:I like how Phil is slowly turning into Andy Chambers.
I was going to say that Phil looked a lot like wolverine, but after a quick search for Andy Chambers (I've only been in the hobby for a year ) I am inclined to agree heavily.
That's (literally) a very cut down version of Mr Chambers. Early incarnations were basically a mullet and massive chops. I'll see if I can dig out a pic.
oni wrote:SOoo... Dark Eldar are like a race of crystal meth addicts. Interesting.
A bit like the Space Emporer, really.
One of the amusing things about 40K is that whatever cruelties, debaucheries and such the DE or most other factions may get up to, the IoM parallels them in some way.
The video's are a good intro for noobs I guess. Found it a little dull. Would have liked to hear more about the actual DE rules and units. How it all sort of works, strats that are used etc. Too much fluff talk.
OoieGoie wrote:The video's are a good intro for noobs I guess. Found it a little dull. Would have liked to hear more about the actual DE rules and units. How it all sort of works, strats that are used etc. Too much fluff talk.
Yes, after 12 years having 1 page off fluff, 45 minutes of chat is too much.
A pity they dont talk about the models. The Raider is a true hell to assemble, though surprisingly all parts fits almost perfectly. Once complete looks awsome but its still a bit small for my taste; the gunner barely fits in the tiny space between the sail, the surrounding spears and the weapon. The DJ- driver is quite cool and so are the hangers ( the reavers floating ponytail heads look better in them than the original, improving the feel of speed on the whole model).
There´s lot of razors, weapons and spikes left which you can use to decorate the cool but slightly bland bikes and make each one of them look unique.
The warriors are breath taking. The only thing that disappoints me about them is that they have less positioning possibilities than their eldar counterparts because of the rigid way sprues are meant to be assembled. And I felt relieved when I saw there are enough armoured heads to don´t have to use the bald uninspired heads.
They ´re all truly delightful and exciting to paint. And I still have half of my previous armies unpainted, but I feel the need to start with those first.
I CAN´T wait to put my hands on the rest of the models next week.
I think they'll probably go over rules and models in later installments.
What I'm really enjoying about these videos is that they somehow bring the whole thing to life. It's great to see Phil's enthusiasm and passion, and I love how he talks about the 40k universe. True, Jes is an excellent sculptor, but I can now see that he provides much more than just models to the design process- he's clearly a very intelligent man! I love how he contributes his own vision, and keeps trying to steer Phil back onto the bigger picture.
Can't wait for todays update. I wish I didn't have quite so many orks and tallarns to paint, because I'd definately be pre-ordering some dark eldar about now...
Arclaw wrote:I think they'll probably go over rules and models in later installments.
What I'm really enjoying about these videos is that they somehow bring the whole thing to life. It's great to see Phil's enthusiasm and passion, and I love how he talks about the 40k universe. True, Jes is an excellent sculptor, but I can now see that he provides much more than just models to the design process- he's clearly a very intelligent man! I love how he contributes his own vision, and keeps trying to steer Phil back onto the bigger picture.
Can't wait for todays update. I wish I didn't have quite so many orks and tallarns to paint, because I'd definately be pre-ordering some dark eldar about now...
I think Jes's contribution was bigger this time. IIRC he wrote the fluff along with Phil, while Phil wrote the rules by himself. I agree with you about the videos in general terms. It would be cool if they keep this level of coverage with all the new codexes.
It's been stated in the comments that there will be new videos uploaded all week (so 2-4 more vids?) so if you're upset at the lack of model discussion then check back later. Also I doubt they'll go into actual detailed tactics.
There's a lot of repetition of well established fluff like 'the fall' but it's lovely to see their take, ideas and thought process on the DE, integrating them fully into the world (as opposed to seemingly tagging them on).
At the very least they deserve an hour or so of my attention for doing what some though impossible and appeasing 99% of hardcore nerds, fan boys and anyone poised to jump on the "I hate GW, they mess everything up" bandwagon; tough gig.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I was distinctly under the impression that there will be chat about rules and models
There have only been 2 vids so far with more to come?
I believe the start of the first video they state their intention to discuss background and then lead onto the new model range and rules. There's three videos currently available (reds8n posted the third up)
Jes comes across as rather taciturn; I think he takes all of this very seriously. Phil almost winks at the camera but is clearly into it all; you sense that behind the scenes he probably gets a bit carried away and has to be yanked back into line by Jes.
I thought these 2 chats were engaging; I don't think we need them blabbing on about the rules, because we'll get all that in the codex and accompanying WD article (although they probably intend to get to the models, as they've got them sitting in front of them). Listening to them talk through the fluff, I found myself getting more interested in it than I normally do (the Ork and Marine fluff has been recycled so many times it's become rather stale, and increasingly tends to be over-written). The expanded DE fluff gives them a proper place in the WH40k world, as well as giving them some much-needed depth.
i was intrigued to hear them say that they came up with lots more fluff than they could fit into the codex. I'd very much like to one day see this material in some other format. Maybe a background book like Xenology
The notion that they need to torture in order to replenish their own souls was pretty well established in the previous versions of the codex. Nothing new there.
Its cool listening to them, even if it's heavy re-tread. I wish they would talk more about designing and evolving them from the previous incarnation, their thought process' and why they made the decisions they did. These vids are really just an intro for new peeps more than anything I find.
But like I said, still interesting all the same to hear Jes and Phil actually talking about it.
I don't think GW's done that at all. I don't know if I would call it "emo," either. Modernized vampires I don't know, there are no dillusions or tragedy; the Dark Eldar aren't romanticized, they don't seek the readers pity. I feel in some ways it goes back to the source material on vampires more than the "bandwagon" books. It depicts Dark Eldar as unapologetically evil and self serving in a way that is completely natural to them. If you watch the videos they go into the fact that they drew on alot more than vampires. Vampires are just the first thing people think of anytime their is a parasitic evil that feeds on anothers essence. This goes beyond Vampires justifying why they have to continue to feed to exist. This goes into the nature of their existence and society in the webway.
Sorry to knock the emo kids out there, but I've always felt their to be an insincerity in their emotional responses. Trading one set of societal expected responses for another.
Unlike many modern vampire movies, they aren't self loathing pitty seekers who want to be understood. They maybe partying it up to all excess like its the end of the world; leaving only for the occaisional "beer/soul run."
If they only thing you got from the codex and the videos is "emo vampires" then you really weren't paying attention ignoring the distinctions in favor of sole recognition of the archetype, which they go out of their way to distinguish the DE from.
The tragedy of the Dark Eldar is the same as that of an addict, where everyone sees whats wrong with them, but they don't. Where even if you pointed it out or intervened they wouldn't care. Their "suffering" and the suffering they impose on others is cyclical.The thing is tragedy implies a downfall, the point of the dark eldar is they've always been evil, they've only become more evil; they've always been addicted to suffering now they are more so. So its what others would ascribe to as tragedy, but really isn't.
Ah Good point Mythos. That makes sense.
I still feel that the concept of Darkness with a lack of reflexivity is not as compelling.
But that is just my take which I am imposing on the Grimgakk again. Must try and learn not to do that.
I think the lack of reflexivity could be justified by saying Dark Eldar who do see error with their society either don't live long enough to do anything about it or they simply flee the webway. Maybe join up with some hippies or Exodite.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:To be fair it isn't 12 years.
5-6 years twixt codices with 2-3 years development at tops
It's 12 years since Dark Eldar first hit the shelves, twelve years for the fluff to be updated. Anything less than that is time spent sat on their thumbs once this new fluff had been written.
Is it true that Dark Eldar are terribly mysterious and can cut guns in half with their mind?
I took a few things away from the videos. One, was how heavily vested Jes was in the design/fluff aspect of the new codex. It's obvious he was involved from the start of the project from the way he spoke of the design process and I wouldn't have guessed that. Two; How well read each of them came across. The reference to story archetypes, Roman social structure and their explanation of why/how the DE tick was fairly interesting.
And three, they need to let Kelly write/design all the books...
Erasoketa wrote:I've realized that Jes's head and ears are quite similar to his designs. Does he use himself to design eldar?
Totally off-topic, but...
Wow now I cannot unsee this.
I think my favorite part was how all the evil the haemoniculus labs somehow regenrates the guys in the coffins. Such a dark mental image there: a dimly lit room filled with screams and agony, and a dude cutting people up for sh-ts and giggles, while above him tons of coffin hang from the cieling with frankenstien-esque monsters inside.
I'm also glad they explained how kabals work, usually an evil force/empire that has backstabbing and such as its main philosophy never have a working government, or one that just appears silly and stupid. Kabals actually have some sort of order which is nice. I like my evil to be monolithic and functional, not a bunch of idiots being counter productive by killing each other and letting the good guys win, something that happens far too often to the "evil empires" in fiction.
These are fun to watch. I like seeing how genuinely excited they are about the subject. Also it's nice to get a window into their creative process. The discussions may not be full of new information, but I think it's a very effective commercial for the army (it's getting me excited about building a DE army).
Sorry CT did I miss something? If I have misunderstood something please explain rather than simply using an emoticon. If I have not understood someone's written statement, I am unlikely to be enlightened by a headslap. You ain't no Buddhist teacher, I ain't your novice monk.
I have a DE codex copyrighted in 1998 it is now 2010. That makes it 12 years old. George stated that It took 12 years to come up with the new stuff.
I said that it did not. Which is true unless you seriously think it suddenly all got written the night before publication.
Continuing the refrain about how long it took to get the new codex is out is wearing a tad thin. People were rightly miffed that there had only been one page of fluff in that period. We are quick enough to complain about GW's shortcomings where the hobbyist is concerned. Yes it is partly a PR stunt but other companies do this. The designers have taken the time to discuss their work. Not sure what more they can do, nor do I understand how the moaning about lost time helps.
Erasoketa wrote:I've realized that Jes's head and ears are quite similar to his designs. Does he use himself to design eldar? Totally off-topic, but...
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:My bad.
I forgot that a new codex appears on the shelves with the wave of a magic wand.
It does for Space Marines.
Seriously, don't even try to defend this. Even if you give them a few years development time, it's still been way too fething long. That's the point.
Not sure what more they can do, nor do I understand how the moaning about lost time helps.
I've done almost nothing but praise this release. I pre-ordered the models (first time I've pre-ordered anything ever) directly from GW, with another $300 worth of purchases planned in the next three months (as soon as I get more cash and figure out what army I'm going to build)...not sure what else I can really do to show how much I approve.
But you can't expect everyone to just "forget" about being swept under the rug for a decade, people have a right to be pissed off and you can't say gak about it. How does "moaning about lost time" help? Well, if they actually listen and never do that crap again, that's one way.
...anyway, I just think it's funny how they're treating this almost like a brand new army, making all these background videos and stuff. I guess they are in a way, since DE had no fluff whatsoever and they basically have to write it all new.
I agree and prior to the release am on record as defending those who complained about having to wait too long.
But we don't need the continuation of the lament.
Every DE thread has this "12 years too late" litany imposed on it. It is only 6 years too late. It skipped one update not two.
There is no longer any need for it on this one, or for that matter any future DE thread. It's here now so time to move on.
Just eat your popcorn and enjoy the movies.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I agree and prior to the release am on record as defending those who complained about having to wait too long.
But we don't need the continuation of the lament.
Every DE thread has this "12 years too late" litany imposed on it. It is only 6 years too late. It skipped one update not two.
There is no longer any need for it on this one, or for that matter any future DE thread. It's here now so time to move on.
Just eat your popcorn and enjoy the movies.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I agree and prior to the release am on record as defending those who complained about having to wait too long.
But we don't need the continuation of the lament.
Every DE thread has this "12 years too late" litany imposed on it. It is only 6 years too late. It skipped one update not two.
There is no longer any need for it on this one, or for that matter any future DE thread. It's here now so time to move on.
Just eat your popcorn and enjoy the movies.
Amen. You didn't hear space wolves complaining this much. And to be realistic, they didn't spend 12 years on the codex; they spent at least 6 years trying to decide if it was worth sinking more money into an unpopular army. Obviously they decided to do so, and that to make it sell they would have to redesign the whole line, the fluff, and support it to the nines by doing stuff like releasing the videos you've been watching.
If they only thing you got from the codex and the videos is "emo vampires" then you really weren't paying attention ignoring the distinctions in favor of sole recognition of the archetype, which they go out of their way to distinguish the DE from.
That's not all I got, I was being slightly flippant. However the fluff is actually putting me off. 'Oh woe is us tragic downward depraved spiral of soul stealing and torture and murder' I will read the codex first and if it doesn't 'grip' me as they originally did I might just re-visit spaze marinez. DE might not get updated for another 12 years.... Spaze marinez will always be in vogue...
First of all I love the new Dark Eldar release and I for one applaud them for taking the time to talk background stuff on video. GW is notorious for doing nothing of this type for the fanbase. The company is simply very old fashioned in many ways, but I digress.
I got to say the new Dark Eldar model line is fantastic but that is only to be expected when Jes is behind it all. I'm also very pleased that they crammed in plenty of different units the Dark Eldar Codex -- Even ones they won't ever make models for. This is in line with the previous codex releases and is one of the greatest things about the new army book style. More options is simply great, even if it means having to convert (many consider this a good thing) or buying from Forgeworld.
Spaze marinez will always be in vogue...
That's the thing though. I have a DIY SM army and GW keeps giving my army a new codex every year and sometimes twice a year. It's nice to have so many options to choose from. DIY SM are simply the safe bet as far as GW gaming is concerned.
If I wanted to have two or more 40K armies though and not just one massive one, Dark Eldar would be pretty damn high on the list now.
If they only thing you got from the codex and the videos is "emo vampires" then you really weren't paying attention ignoring the distinctions in favor of sole recognition of the archetype, which they go out of their way to distinguish the DE from.
That's not all I got, I was being slightly flippant. However the fluff is actually putting me off. 'Oh woe is us tragic downward depraved spiral of soul stealing and torture and murder' I will read the codex first and if it doesn't 'grip' me as they originally did I might just re-visit spaze marinez. DE might not get updated for another 12 years.... Spaze marinez will always be in vogue...
If you haven't read the codex yet, why do you have a strong opinion about the fluff you don't know?
The Dark Eldar are having the times of their lives.
I think the emo race you're looking for would be Craftworld Eldar.
If they only thing you got from the codex and the videos is "emo vampires" then you really weren't paying attention ignoring the distinctions in favor of sole recognition of the archetype, which they go out of their way to distinguish the DE from.
That's not all I got, I was being slightly flippant. However the fluff is actually putting me off. 'Oh woe is us tragic downward depraved spiral of soul stealing and torture and murder' I will read the codex first and if it doesn't 'grip' me as they originally did I might just re-visit spaze marinez. DE might not get updated for another 12 years.... Spaze marinez will always be in vogue...
If you haven't read the codex yet, why do you have a strong opinion about the fluff you don't know?
The Dark Eldar are having the times of their lives.
I think the emo race you're looking for would be Craftworld Eldar.
I've only read bits and pieces of the DE codex but it is freaking awesome. It really brings out the arrogance that the Eldar race supposedly had and it makes them kick ass. Now hopefully the Craftworlders will get this kind of update.
Yeah I feel the same way. I wish every one of these videos were twice as long. I hope they plan to do this sort of thing more often with their releases.
Yes CW Eldar are trying to be vulkans. I'm sure they mate once every 7 years as well..I would bet that in the next dex CW eldar will find a way to hae animal sex without getting slaaneshied in the bum afterwards. Some sort of eldar 'safe sex' device will have to be invented i) so they wont die our and ii) So Gw can sell more eldar minis.
I liked it when the DE were simply 'evil space pirates'. Now they are more hedonisitc and I lack motivation to collect them as the whole 'raid to have sensation thing' is reminiscent of things in other games like Vampire or even the Shadar-Kai race from D&D. They are also not as 'elite' as CW eldar (to sell more minis I'm sure) and although the minis are nice what I've seen of the fluff is off-putting. However like I said before I'm going to wait for my dex to arrive rather than make premature conclusions.
Well I must say I'm very pleased with the week's videos. Dissapointed they couldn't last longer, and go even more indepth on the thoughts behind the rules and models. But the 3 fluff videos were brilliant for seeing their own views on how things are. Even though there was fluff we already had, it was expanded, extended, and rejigged to make it better and more in-depth. And they're worth watching if just to see the enthusiasm the two of them have for Dark Eldar, and to see just how much they know . . . but then you expect that after pretty much writing them from scratch. =p
Gosh, could it be GW is finally learning how to use the Internet to generate hype for their products?
While I would love to see this kind of treatment for the armies I'm interested in, if it takes 12 years to put that much together I might prefer the normal releases.
With all the intruiges, conflicts between factions etc that seem to be ongoing in Commarragh there must be a place for a skirmish scale spin off game for see it happen.the DE.
Necromunda is a blast and =I=munda seems popular. Whether there is room for another game I don't know but would like to
Phototoxin wrote:Yes CW Eldar are trying to be vulkans. I'm sure they mate once every 7 years as well..I would bet that in the next dex CW eldar will find a way to hae animal sex without getting slaaneshied in the bum afterwards. Some sort of eldar 'safe sex' device will have to be invented i) so they wont die our and ii) So Gw can sell more eldar minis.
I liked it when the DE were simply 'evil space pirates'. Now they are more hedonisitc and I lack motivation to collect them as the whole 'raid to have sensation thing' is reminiscent of things in other games like Vampire or even the Shadar-Kai race from D&D. They are also not as 'elite' as CW eldar (to sell more minis I'm sure) and although the minis are nice what I've seen of the fluff is off-putting. However like I said before I'm going to wait for my dex to arrive rather than make premature conclusions.
Premature conclusions like all the ones in your post?
I don't think you see how contradictory your posts are coming off. They are most certainly less Hedonistic in this incarnation, the book explains their economy, social hierarchy, their interactions with other races. You want the cartoon boogie man version they used to be? Where they would just fly into town at midnight, and steal your first born for the lulz?
They raid not for sensation, which they do enjoy, but for requisite souls for without them, they fade away to the leeching grasp of Slaanesh. I would place them closer to Vikings in that a lot of natural resources/comforts they enjoyed didn't naturally occur where they lived, so they had to Raid for them.
So you can't just admit saying they are "emo-vampires" was a stupid statement based on surface level stereotypes? Your ego is that fragile?
+1 for high res wallpaper or even poster of the Commoragh picture.
BTW just for the record: Those Haemunculi were just test sculpts by Juan Diaz from before 2001. But then again, Juan Diaz was allowed to sculpt Urien. And I wouldn't mind seeing them cast.
It's been interesting to see how GW have handled the release of the new DE range. Videos like these clearly work, not just because they give us information about the DE which makes us want to know more, but also because Phil and Jes's obvious enthusiasm for their work helps to break down the image some have of GW as 'only interested in money'. There are other opportunities for them to re-launch neglected armies in a similar way; they missed the chance with the Orks, but they have another one with the Necrons. Deeper fluff, better options and some classy new models would give the evil bots a much-needed boost - as would putting up videos like these. I suspect, however, that this is a bit of a one-off, and we're unlikely to see this many resources thrown at a single army.
Separately, can anyone who has the codex suggest what that craft that's flying past the tower in the artwork behind Phil and Jes is? I'm hoping it's something we'll see in model form; Jes hinted in the 4th part that there are more DE vehicle model done.
Did I hear him right? At around 13:50 in the rules video does Jess say the new Lelith model is by Juan? I had assumed all these sculpts were Jess' designs.
I thought the videos (all of them) were absolutely brilliant! They really showcased what exactly goes into the background of the armies, and the massive amount of thought that these guys put into these things! I've been waiting eagerly for each new one to come out!
phillosmaster wrote:Did I hear him right? At around 13:50 in the rules video does Jess say the new Lelith model is by Juan? I had assumed all these sculpts were Jess' designs.
Yes, Lileth is by Juan. Let's hope they keep him on this time.
What the video reminded me of was those "making of" shows that Hollywood puts together for whatever upcoming blockbuster they're trying to promote. And while I do want to see more of these for more releases, I have to point out they only really work when the thing being promoted is something good. I'm sure everyone has seen a "making of" video for some dull by-the-numbers Hollywood release that's banking on a huge opening weekend from hype alone before everyone realizes the movie is rubbish. And if you see enough of those then you can start to spot it in the "making of" shows, and they stop being a cool inside view into the mind of the director and start being a crass money-making deluge that you just want to shut up. I don't want GW to start doing that in miniature form. The video treatment should only come for the miniatures projects they've actually put good design work into.
But for the next project that they really do pull off a fantastic job on, I'd recommend getting some of the 'eavy Metal minis on a slow turntable and filming them from a variety of angles. Putting up the same studio shots of models we've already seen was kind of a downer in an otherwise excellent production.
Banshees and fire dragons were a estilized version of 2nd edition ones anyway, not a big imaginative effort by Jes and neither his best work. New banshee models were sort of fail, the previous were so much better. And Autarchs with the exception of Yriel are just meh.
They look like eldar, but still vulgar. I think we could have expected something better from Jes, more dynamic and ... charming? if he really did sculpt the models.
Sidstyler wrote:I dunno, I think they look alright. Not sure what autarchs etc. are supposed to look like, but they look like Eldar to me.
I'd assume, for the most part, Autarchs would look like...well, whatever they damned well please. They probably retain wargear from their time serving as an Exarch of a specific Aspect, or are awarded something by their particular Craftworld.
I'd guess it would be, but at the same time...so is being an Autarch, and Autarchs are supposed to be "Chosen Warriors, leading the Craftworld's hosts into battle".
You wouldn't exactly pick Billy the Bowling Alley Manager for that, would you?
Kanluwen wrote:hey probably retain wargear from their time serving as an Exarch of a specific Aspect
Isnt being an exarch for life? Cant remember
Exarchs are indeed "damned" to follow their particular path/school for evermore. Autarchs can and have left the path of the Aspect Warrior, and may well have in fact "levelled up" in several of the different paths throughout their lives.
All I wanted from this interview was to know what Phil had to say for himself concerning the pitiful new Mandrake rules.
Still, it was nice to hear from the lead designers.
For all the complaining we do about GW, this isnt one of those things. They've done an excellent job. DE needed a redo from top to bottom and it looks like they got it.
If only they can bring this enthusiasim to other armies that need it in the 40k universe: tau, orks, CSM, necrons, sisters among others.
) I am inclined to agree heavily.
