Rumours of apparent substance from Warseer (i.e. Harry hints that they're accurate). They've been kicking around for a while, but not seen them here.

Book will be written by Jeremy Vetock and is scheduled for a February/March Release (I would think March as February would mean two big Fantasy releases in two months with Skaven Wave 2 in January - Woo Hoo!)

All current SCs will be kept with a few additions... Wurzzag will be back (makes sense as a model exists already) and the suggestion is two new goblin special characters

The big new army list entry is rumoured to be a giant spider known as an Arachnarok. Much like a Stegadon, it can be used either as a mount for a character or some kind of war machine (rare choice)

Not much else apart from a cryptic comment from Harry...

In 8th edition, and starting with Orcs and Goblins we can expect a whole different kind of army book. Obviously many of the same sections will be there but expect something a bit different.

sooooo.... a new format for army books? sounds cool.

Lord of battles wrote:sooooo.... a new format for army books? sounds cool.

Cooler than a big arse spider?

I shall wait and see.

Flashman wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:sooooo.... a new format for army books? sounds cool.

Cooler than a big arse spider?

Touche

would love to see rumors!

Wut? New O&G book? Not Tomb Kings/Wood Elves/Ogre Kingdoms? Quite confusing, I'd say... I mean, the orc book works pretty well with the 8th ed, doesn't it?

Saintspirit wrote:Wut? New O&G book? Not Tomb Kings/Wood Elves/Ogre Kingdoms? Quite confusing, I'd say... I mean, the orc book works pretty well with the 8th ed, doesn't it?

O&G has been mooted as the first 8th Ed army book for a while. GW do occassionally jump the army book cycle, although not very often.

Yes I originally heard TK were due but then they were slotted for after O&G. I hope they can fix boar boyz since they got new models. Give some reasons to choose common goblins too

If they don't do something about animosity, O&G will still be a frustrating army to play, which would be a shame. Any rumours on that?

To be honest, a lot of people complaining about animosity seem to be treating it like a brand new rule, and not a defining characteristic of Orcs and Gobbos for years and years!

Animosity is what makes the O&G just that. One thing that might not make it as much of a pain but give it more character is making it a 2d6 roll with each roll leading to something different.

It might be a defining characteristic, but it does make them frustrating to play against more reliable armies.
I'd like to see it stay in, but SIGNIFICANTLY altered. Make it into a random number of causulties on a 1, and possibly leadership bumps as orcs close with the foe, or something, instead of forced movement/immobility. Warhammer is a game of movement, and an army that can't control it is always going to be sub par.

I'm still shaking my head at the idea that GW is going to let half a year (at the least!) pass without releasing an 8th edition army book. Did they actually want to wait and see how the rules would play out before making design decisions?

Lord of battles wrote:

Flashman wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:sooooo.... a new format for army books? sounds cool.

Cooler than a big arse spider?

Touche

That would be an awesome kit.

Not rumors, but speculation from a five / six year O&G player:

#1: Harsher Miscast table. Come on, Orcs & Goblins get it with each new Edition. BRB gives a nasty Miscast Table, O&G get one worse. BRB one-ups it again (ex: 7th Edition), O&G once more get it worse (7th Edition O&G). BRB is now to the point you drop S10 Large Blasts on your wizard's head, either O&G is about to lose its miscast table or we're looking at something like "3-4: normal miscast table. 2: Normal miscast table, but apply 5-6 result to all O&G Wizards!".

#2: Animosity remains roughly unchanged. It's Animosity, GW isn't going to up and remove it or turn it into something such as Primal Fury. However, they might modify the dice roll schtick again: Perhaps we'll return to the old table, perhaps there might be some clauss for when rolling a 1 for Animosity, something is probably going to be changed.

#3: Panic Tier will probably be cut out from general rules and put in general ones. Goblins will get a "Only cause panic in other Goblins" rule, Black Orcs will get a "ignore panic from non-Black Orc Orcs and Goblins" rule or somesuch.

#4: Choppas will get changed, probably back to old version (bonus only on charge).

#5: Odd unit price hikes with either stats remaining unchanging, slight improvement, or notable decrease. Again, a commonality (such as with the Miscast Table) amongst O&G. I especially expect such to be true with things such as Goblin Characters, with standard Heroes going up to 40's-50's in points and Lords easily into 70's-80's.


Of course, all this is speculation. The only one I'm practically willing to put money down on for certain is the Miscast Table bit. I feel something akin to the others will happen, but not sure enough of myself to say so for certain. If there's absolutely zero change to the miscast table, same results and effects and everything, I'll write an essay next semester in GW's honor.

There are good ways to keep animosity while toning it down a bit. Use 2d6 with 2/3 being animosity and 11/12 being Waaaagh!. In one swoop you've halved the occurance.

1/3 chance of either as it currently stands is a bit dominating -- especially with the numbers they tend to run in.

my $.02.

<EDIT>
Need to add that I've always been a fan of using the bell curve. I've never liked use of 1d6 for results tables.

ZF-

O&G, along with Empire, are the biggest fantasy army, sales wise.

Clue right there - and out of the two, O&G need the update more.

Flashman wrote:

Saintspirit wrote:Wut? New O&G book? Not Tomb Kings/Wood Elves/Ogre Kingdoms? Quite confusing, I'd say... I mean, the orc book works pretty well with the 8th ed, doesn't it?

O&G has been mooted as the first 8th Ed army book for a while. GW do occassionally jump the army book cycle, although not very often.

Orcs and Goblins have been first the last few editions. Why stop now?

They're back for another go!

Kurgash wrote:They're back for another go!

Kurgash is making a obscure reference to Ork dialogue in the Dawn of War games here folks.

EDIT - Just realised who my audience was and that it probably wasn't remotely obscure to 99.9% of you

Flashman wrote:

Kurgash wrote:They're back for another go!

Kurgash is making a obscure reference to Ork dialogue in the Dawn of War games here folks.

EDIT - Just realised who my audience was and that it probably wasn't remotely obscure to 99.9% of you

As someone who has never played Dawn of War, however, I thank you. Hey, I'm in the .1 percent!

Sarrazon wrote:

Flashman wrote:

Kurgash wrote:They're back for another go!

Kurgash is making a obscure reference to Ork dialogue in the Dawn of War games here folks.

EDIT - Just realised who my audience was and that it probably wasn't remotely obscure to 99.9% of you

As someone who has never played Dawn of War, however, I thank you. Hey, I'm in the .1 percent!

Sweet, I'm part of a select few as well!

The Crippler wrote:I'm still shaking my head at the idea that GW is going to let half a year (at the least!) pass without releasing an 8th edition army book. Did they actually want to wait and see how the rules would play out before making design decisions?

Dont forget the 7 month time between 40k books also. This happened with 5th edition 40k with a 8-9 month wait between SM and IG, pretty absurd imo

If it wasn't for the fact both systems (40k and fantasy) have books which desperately need an update (necrons, grey knights, tomb kings, wood elves) then I wouldn't have too much of an issue, but to go over half a year without a new book for either is pretty frustrating. I get it, fantasy got a new rulebook, which was on preorder back in the end of may I think...it's now november, and the next book (fantasy) won't be out till next march? That's just crap.

EDIT: And Orcs and Goblins arguably don't really need a new book before tomb kings and wood elves, I know animosity sucks, it's lost me dozens of games. Wood elves are borderline unplayable, and tomb kings is forced into a single build. Who knows when their books will be released? Could be over a year (from main rulebook release).

Flashman wrote:

Kurgash wrote:They're back for another go!

Kurgash is making a obscure reference to Ork dialogue in the Dawn of War games here folks.

EDIT - Just realised who my audience was and that it probably wasn't remotely obscure to 99.9% of you

Thought I read that same mentality in one of the fantasy army books too. Huh.

greenbay - excpet, again, O&G are one of the 2 big sellers in fantasy. From a business perspective, which GW need to be mindful of, keeping O&G going is a good thing to do.

greenbay924 wrote:EDIT: And Orcs and Goblins arguably don't really need a new book before tomb kings and wood elves, I know animosity sucks, it's lost me dozens of games. Wood elves are borderline unplayable, and tomb kings is forced into a single build. Who knows when their books will be released? Could be over a year (from main rulebook release).

The problem is, wood elves were just fine until very recently (when 8th edition was released) and we all know GW doesn't really plan ahead

O&G had tons of trouble in 7th, and although they're OK at the moment, they deserve an update. Us WE players have just started our waiting game!!

I do hope TK is next after them... more than anything for the models! Please let them replace those silly-looking skeleton horses...

I'm surprised nobody is jumping on that cryptic comment from Harry about a new section in each army book-I'm thinking a "super heavy" addition slot-you know, the dwarf zeppelin, the chaos mammoth (from forgeworld), this giant arachnarok...all going in a new section that exists within the points limit of the game, but you can take one model from this section-kind of like an ultra rare or something. Just my thoughts

Agreed.. Orcs and Empire will always get a new book in every edition. Period.

Same with space marines in 40k

Why not copy the complete current summary of rumours?

Ney wrote:Book seems slated for a Feb/March release, written by Jeremy Vetock and apparently already done! (strongly hinted at by hastings and harry, and also seems in line with the known release schedule).And we're back to not February, seems like its March again, thanks to Harry.

We keep all current SC(that includes Grom in his chariot!) and get Wurzzag and two goblin characters both heroes one of which is a forrest gobling for a totalt of 15 lord choices and 11 hero choices!

We get a new model, the Arachnarok spider. It can be takes as a mount for a common gobling great shaman, or it can be a rare choice. As a rare choice it will have options for some warmachine thingie or other special rule in that regard.

Common goblins will get some sort of a unit upgrade. hastings hinted at something that has two handweapons but is not an assasin. (I am still a bit unclear whether the upgrade is the new Special Char or a seperate upgrade like the DE assasin)

(Common) Goblin characters will be able to ride Giant and Gigantic spiders, so an all spider army should be viable (hastings).

Also we are getting another new unit besides the Arachnarok, though it is unclear what it is at the moment.

We get some new plastics, so far people agree on we get 5 sets:
Besides the spider, the best bets so far are Savage Orcs incl boars, with the remaining two to be named. One which could be the new as of yet missing unit.

Things we do not get:
Orcs do NOT get devestating charge (hastings).
Hobgoblins.
Common forrest goblins (on foot).
Orc Idols and some huge cave beast (though we might hope Warhammer Forge may come up with something nice, eh? But nothing is in the pipelines just yet according to people that talked to them at Games Day UK).
Plastic Sguigs.
Black Orc Boar Boys
Skirmishing giant spider riders

And lastly a little quote (just to be clear, it is about the presentation/composition of the book not the actual rules etc).

Harry wrote:In 8th edition, and starting with Orcs and Goblins we can expect a whole different kind of army book.
Obviously many of the same sections will be there but expect something a bit different.

Cheers Kroothawk, to be honest I just dipped in and took the stuff which seemed interesting.

Kirasu wrote:Agreed.. Orcs and Empire will always get a new book in every edition. Period.

Same with space marines in 40k

I agree. And the O&G is often one of the first few to be released. And i must as always express my symapthy for those armies, that need one, not getting an update. It does seem odd, this long wait, but perhaps GW are actually considering how the new rules go, and designing the army book to balanced, regarding these things.

Animosity isn't so bad imo, yes it's annoying at times but it does fit in the character of the orcs. Perhaps a 2D6 table where one option is the current 1 on the animostiy table and perhaps the nest one up from that is like D3 wounds with no armour saves allowed, or one is try to charge the nearest enemy unit. I also hope they find a way to make regualr goblins and wolf riders viable, and make them play differently to thier respective night and forest gobbo alternatives.

The new models sound cool, a giant spider choice would be very cool! As would some plastic savage orcs, or at least some cheaper ones, and since they've realeased the river trolls, why not a plastic stone troll set? I'm going to have to think about what the new unit may be, as i have absoloutly no idea what it could be....

Well, i'll be looking forward to this update.

WAAAAAAGGGGHHHH!

Mmmmm savage orcs!

I asked this question on a previous thread, but what about new common gobbos? On foot and on wolf, they could certainly do with a remodel to be the correct size.

I mean, a new rule book is all well and good, but tell me about the miniatures.

And it is not very surprising to say "new format" for the rulebook... it seems like every other book is in a new format. Unless they mean it will be A5 sized or something.

My guess is that they will make it more complete for background, with campaign maps and things. More expensive obviously.

I believe Harry said the book will be a fair bit thicker.

Honestly, animosity frustrates me more than anything. Yes, orcs need it as a major component on what makes them unique, but at the same time, they need to be competitive. They shouldn't be limited to only fluff players.

I think the bell curve should work, with something like:

2 - don't move
3-4 - stupidity
5-9 - nothing
10-11 - stubborn
12 - frenzy, or maybe just the must charge part of it.

I know it's already set in stone, but that's my wish listing.

Munch Munch! wrote:

Sarrazon wrote:

Flashman wrote:

Kurgash wrote:They're back for another go!

Kurgash is making a obscure reference to Ork dialogue in the Dawn of War games here folks.

EDIT - Just realised who my audience was and that it probably wasn't remotely obscure to 99.9% of you

As someone who has never played Dawn of War, however, I thank you. Hey, I'm in the .1 percent!

Sweet, I'm part of a select few as well!

That also puts you in the percentage range of people with vestigial tails too. Just sayin'

O&G would be a cool army to see next, and really would play well into the "Hordes of models on the table" theme GW has been pushing for ~2-3 years now with Apocalypse, cheap Orks and IG, Skaven and now 8th edition's big bonuses to huge units. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see cheap orc boyz and piles of gobbo's for only a few points each, but a buck o five at the cash register

I wouldn't be surprised either, but I would be surprised to see them done effectively. Ex: Making Orcs something like 4pts a model... with no upgrades. Choppas are gone, replaced with Orcs getting something like Furious Charge.

Don't get me wrong, points-per they'll still be better than typical undead troops for their cost. But GW doesn't have the best track record with what is actually done and what's predicted (ex: How many people actually see entire armies fielded in horde formation?).

My guess is that perhaps O&G will make a play to be ALL horde. Maybe... I kind of doubt GW will really foresee what would be needed to make that good, but might be able to guess effectively with cheap boys and cheaper gobbos.

If all they do is make units cheaper to field, I'll be really upset. So the big change with a new rulebook, is I go from infantry that's cheap and can't really beat anything in combat, and must rely on a battle of attrition and static combat res to win, to a cheaper army with all of the same above. There is so much character that can be given to an Orc and Goblin army, I really hope they don't take the bland, 'combine everything together' approach like what they did to Vampire Counts...

It would be consistent with GW, though. Especially if they get a minor leg up at edition's start due to being one of the first books (Look at these bonus' Orcs get!)... and then get quickly drowned out by Army Book / Codex Creep (even if such is much more noticeable / potent in 40K than WHFB).

Wurzzag coming back is good. I imagine that the O&G Lores will be akin to the Skaven (replacing the Pestilens & Skyre lores with Big & Little Waaagh!), but can't imagine whether GW would give him access to both lores (ALA 6th Edition) or just give him a full Lore (which would probably be 7 spells, 8 if he's given a unique spell) which fits with most "Special Character Mage = One Lore Loremaster" bit. I doubt he's going to keep a lot of his rules, though (such as "Ignores Miscasts but loses his dice", the storing two dice, etcetera), and instead be just general improvements (ex: additional bonus to casting or dispel, slightly improved steed rules, the aforementioned Loremaster bit, etcetera).

Goblin Characters, a Forest Goblin Hero was mentioned? Who do people think the next would be, a Common or a Night? I can't quite think of any particular non-mentioned O&G heroes at the moment, but if I had to guess this one's going to be a unique Shaman (due to the fact that only two of the current Special Characters have any magic, and only one is technically a Wizard).

I imagine we're going to hear much more rumors as we get closer to the supposed time of release. Confirmation for next Fantasy book will probably come either December or January, and the actual "rumors" tend to come out a month-or-so prior.

Talking of O&G magic lores, i'd like them to be made better. They're ok, but i'd much prefer to be able to take a BRB lore. A forest goblin character option would be cool as well i suppose, i reckon it'll have rules like it moves normally through terrain and poisoned attacks. I also thought it'd be a good idea to give orcs devastating charge, it fits their character well, just like furious charge for orks in 40k, though i faintly remember hearing that they won't be getting it, whether on this thread or elsewhere. I hope this isn't the case

No plastic squigs is a bummer, I love having squigs as decorations for my ork conversions. :(

The lores do need a lot of help, but I'm pretty sure they'll just do what they've done in the past, just update the current spells to match the new rulebook. I wouldn't get too excited about them tbh. As for wurrzhag, him coming back has made me completely excited, next to grimgor, he is my favorite of the orc characters, and was always on the table top for me. I already know we'll get a more generic version of him (kind of like the semi nerfing they gave grimgor). The ignores miscast rule would just be crazy, in Teclis territory. Since he's spent most of his time in the wild, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get access to lore of bests, then again, it doesn't fit as all orc shaman get their magical power from the WAAAGH, so I'm thinking no BRB magic.

If all they do is make him a lvl 4 caster, and keep the cool "make somebody into a squig" spell...I'll be happy, and ready to dust off his model.

Wehrkind wrote:
O&G would be a cool army to see next, and really would play well into the "Hordes of models on the table" theme GW has been pushing for ~2-3 years now with Apocalypse, cheap Orks and IG, Skaven and now 8th edition's big bonuses to huge units. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see cheap orc boyz and piles of gobbo's for only a few points each, but a buck o five at the cash register

Just in time for the Mantic plastics?

Here a news update by Frgt/10 over at Warseer:

- O&Gs are 100% coming in march
- the night gobbo sneaky unit are attachments to regular NG units like fanatics. similar to assassins but more like 'hangers-on' than 'professional killers' (note that this conflicts with Harrys report that it was a common gobbo addition, but i was told NG *shrugs*)
- plastic savage orcs
- new wurrzagg model from what ive heard (might be wrong on this one though)
- the new book is to old army books in a way that the 8th edition RB is to older edition RBs

Regarding animosity i always thought the low LD represented this enough (after all it stems from some skirmishes in LOTR that involved orcs from different armies-mordor vs isengard and morgul vs main mordor) without slowing play with extra rules, combined with Fear of elves it makes goblins very poor.
It has always seemed to be a trend with GW that "evil" troops with special rules always have at least as many down sides as advantages eg a character might hate enemies but also is stupid.This rarely happens with the "good guys". Also the baddies seem to have poorer saves both armour and wards.

So, if NGoblins get more attachments, the choices are:

Unit with lots of specialization ranging from De-Buffs to enemies, mini-Heroes, one of the more feared models / point cost (Name a few more 25 point models that put off a unit of not-Wolf Cavalry like Fanatics), better base gear (Shield vs Light Armor), and Faster at the cost of -1 LD.

Unit with Ld 6, at the cost of all the above benefits, and potential to get a 5+ / 6+ save at a 33% price increase.

... Either Night Goblins are going to be hit hard, or GW just doesn't care about non-Cavalry standard Goblins any more. Really, right now the choice is pretty much always "Night Goblin" unless you're taking an All-Gobbo list without special characters (in which case a Common is often chosen simply for the Ld8, with the rest Night Goblins). With even more advantages to Night Gobbos? Eech.

New Wurrzagg has me mixed. On one hand, I have the 6th Ed. Model and await his return. On the other, it would not surprise me at all if GW completely remade the model so as to say "FU" to old players, and force you to buy a new one / convert a pre-existing Shaman to utilize him. Wouldn't surprise me much at all (He's been in use but also not-changed since about the time of the DEldar, if I'm not mistaken, and a few DEldar units and Characters got that stick).

Plastic Savage Orcs... about bloody time. They could release the things at flippin' Gold Sword prices and they'd still (practically) be cheaper. The models aren't bad at all, but the sheer cost... it's like they think you're actually an Orc and can grow (plus regrow) money for 'em.


The "New is to Old as 8th is to 6th / 7th" has me a bit alarmed, though. Why? Orcs are try #1. Either it's gone to be done average (and thus, while decent at the start, quickly drowned ALA pendulum shifts), or horribly (as they use it to hammer out what does and doesn't work). While I don't mind an average, I don't want the Orcs to be the 5th Ed. Chaos Marine codex of WHFB.

jprp wrote:Regarding animosity i always thought the low LD represented this enough (after all it stems from some skirmishes in LOTR that involved orcs from different armies-mordor vs isengard and morgul vs main mordor) without slowing play with extra rules, combined with Fear of elves it makes goblins very poor.
It has always seemed to be a trend with GW that "evil" troops with special rules always have at least as many down sides as advantages eg a character might hate enemies but also is stupid.This rarely happens with the "good guys". Also the baddies seem to have poorer saves both armour and wards.

WoC discredits this statement.

Minsc - CSM is a 4th ed codex. The first just about 5th ed was Orks.

Would love to see some resized gobbos and plastic forest goblins! Hobgoblins would be a plus but I'm not holding my breath. They really should make plastic squigs though.

First off i would love to see plastic sqiugs as my 40k orks would benefits from it.
next i would love to see this book set the mark for power level for this edition much like space marines did for 40k, for i personly see most of the 5th edition on the same level with the book (not Nids obvs which did get screwed).

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300090a

For years uncounted, before even the Empire existed, and Men were little more than barbarous and primitive cave-dwellers, the Orcs & Goblins have haunted the mountains and deep forests of the world. Extremely aggressive and savage creatures, Orc & Goblin tribes rarely suffer a peaceful moment in their unending lust for battle and inexplicable urge to pillage and despoil.

Once roused to war by a powerful or charismatic leader, a greenskin Waaagh! on the march can rapidly snowball into a seemingly endless tide of rowdy Orc and Goblin warriors, scuttling creatures and lumbering monsters as neighbouring tribes flock to join the gathering masses, or capitulate in defeat. The haphazard nature by which Orc & Goblin armies are mustered results in a huge variety of unruly mobs of squabbling warriors and a wide selection of creatures both great and small. Such huge diversity ensures that greenskin armies are by far the most unpredictable to face in battle.

March 2011 will see the release of Warhammer: Orcs & Goblins, an essential guide to fielding a greenskin host on the tabletop, and a veritable font of knowledge detailing the complete rules, background, artwork and enormous range of miniatures available to a budding Warboss.

To support this exciting release, we will also be unveiling a genuine feast of new miniatures that would sate even the most ravenous Troll. All will be revealed in time, but keep up to speed on developments by checking out White Dwarf and the What's New Today blog on the website. If you haven't already done so, make sure you sign up to the Games Workshop newsletter to learn of any news as soon as it is released.

With this in mind, if you have ever fancied starting your own legion of greenskins, or are looking to ensure that your tribe is the biggest and nastiest around, remember that the Orcs & Goblins are already blessed with a plethora of multi-part plastic kits. The selection of fantastic sets below are the best way to get your army up and running, safe in the knowledge that they will not be replaced in March. So, gather up some Boyz and grab your favourite choppa because now is the time for WAAAGH!

March then

I'm covered spider wise but a new kit its always good.

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Just got this e-mail

In this issue: Waaagh! More greenskins are on the way...

Incoming! Orcs & Goblins

In March the green tide of Orcs & Goblins, the scourge of the Warhammer world, is about to become even bigger. In an unstoppable Waaagh! these angry creatures live to fight; their only goal is to rampage and slaughter. Take a look at the Astronomican today to see the Studio's Incoming! article about Orcs & Goblins, and for advice in building up an army in time for the new arrivals.

Ohh yes, I forgot why I had 3 tabs of this thread open ^_^"

hmm, interesting

Hmmm, I've never been fussed with the spiders. What I would love is for the wolf riders to be re done so that the old wolf model could finally be retired. But thinking about it I can understand if they wanted to focus on the forest goblins - with the Hobbit movie most likely being released before another greenskin codex I guess they'd have to distance themselves from that IP. So long as we still have plenty of Night Gobbos I'll be happy.

I would suggest that Goblin players will be happy with this book indeed.

Thanks to Mr. frgt/10 from Warseer

-the night gobbo sneaky unit are attachments to regular NG units like fanatics. similar to assassins but more like 'hangers-on' than 'professional killers' (note that this conflicts with Harrys report that it was a common gobbo addition, but i was told NG *shrugs*)
-plastic savage orcs
-new wurrzagg model from what ive heard (might be wrong on this one though)
- the new book is to old army books in a way that the 8th edition RB is to older edition RBs

The haphazard nature by which Orc & Goblin armies are mustered results in a huge variety of unruly mobs of squabbling warriors and bla...

Looks like the people hoping they would drop animosity get their hopes dashed.

Animosity is still in their rules indeed.

reds8n wrote:Animosity is still in their rules indeed.

As it should be

I wonder how many SC will be introduced

kenshin620 wrote:I wonder how many SC will be introduced

Ahem... see my original post (although this is by no means concrete information)

I feel bad for people that buy the mounted giant Giant Spider and every game is that thing getting clobbered first turn by artillery and everyone riding it being obliterated. Unless of course they add in a special rule where it catches cannonballs in a web or something.

https://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300090a&_requestid=1738753

Well that confirms the march release but little else it seems

Before everyone tells him or points it out, yes, this is on page 2 as well. Ta.

I was looking at the plastic kits and metal kits that won't be changed, and eyeballed which kits did not appear there.

Goblin Wolf Riders
Fanatics
Savage Orcs
Snotlings
Arrer Boys
Rock Lobba
Wolf Chariot
Squig Hoppers
Boar Chariot
Squigs
Spear Chukka
Doom Diver
Pump Wagon
Stone Trolls

Those are all left off the 'Safe List' of kits to buy. Some can probably be discounted (I doubt they would redo Fanatics already, and we know Savage Orcs). Using process of elimination and what's already been mentioned, any bets on what the new kits will be?

Another big kit (this rumored spider) may be cool to look at, but what I'm really liking is the idea of a sneaky night gobbo attachment. Seems really characterful.

Hopefully they can get the points values of common goblins competitive with night goblins. I'd also like to see them continue the skaven book's use of 1/2 point upgrades for the cheap troops. Makes a ton of sense.

Red_Zeke wrote:Hopefully they can get the points values of common goblins competitive with night goblins. I'd also like to see them continue the skaven book's use of 1/2 point upgrades for the cheap troops. Makes a ton of sense.

Point values for Common Goblins will never make them competitive with Night Goblins. It's the sheer number of upgrades you can give to a Night Goblin unit that mean Common Goblins will never be chosen. Consider:

Common Goblin: Ld6 I2 Gobbo. Can be upgraded to a 5+ save (with a 6+ Parry) at +1pt / model.
Night Goblin: Ld5 I3 Gobbo. Comes with a 6+ save (with a 6+ Parry) for free, cannot get a 5+ save. In turn, for approx. 1pt / model, can buy the unit an 83% chance to drop one unit in base-to-base to -1 Strength (which often times is better than the 5+ Save). In addition, may buy for 25pts a model that can do decent casualties to regiments on foot or cavalry units, and can take this upgrade up to three times. Now, in addition, they are getting some sort of mini-assassin for active combat resolution for the unit.

The only thing that can't be countered "directly" without getting into characters is basically the Ld6, and being a Goblin you already know that your unmodified Ld. is a joke barring exceptional rolling.

It's a shame that common goblins are only worth taking for Heroes / Lords, because their models really aren't that bad (if you can ignore the hands, at least, but then most late 90's / early 00 models had horrible hands).

Dez wrote:I was looking at the plastic kits and metal kits that won't be changed, and eyeballed which kits did not appear there.

Of those on the list, I'm not seeing the War Machines get new models any time soon. Fanatics as well, being a pretty recently done box (relatively).

Arrer Boyz... depend on if they remain their own unit, or get thrown in with other Boyz types. If they become a type of unit replacement, I figure they'll probably be kept as they are (direct order metal models, with a few plastics on eBay). GW's not really going to bother with them particularly unless they can sell them as their own unit.

Savage Orcs were confirmed getting plastics, I think.

Snotlings, while not bad models, are old. As are Stone Trolls. As in, older-than-me old. Their replacement would not suprise me in the least. However, because one is an expensive metal, and the other a swarm, I'm not seeing the stone trolls until a new wave of models is put out, and the Snotlings will probably remain under the principle that they're a swarm and GW really doesn't seem to be putting that much interest in new Swarm models.

Pump Wagon, don't see that in any first wave releases. I just don't, not unless it becomes the Orc Doomwheel.

Wolf Riders... maybe. They are a cavalry core choice, and they haven't touched them for a bit. If first wave, it'll probably just be a re-boxing or size change in the box. Second wave, I can see them being done with modified / new models. As such, I expect them to just be re-boxed in the first wave.

Chariots... Boar would be first-wave, taking into account the new boar models, with Wolf being second (or even third) wave depending on whether Wolf Riders get any new Wolves or not.

Squigs and Squig Hoppers make the best bet for a new plastic kit, of those on the list. Whether they'll get one is easily up for debate, but of the models presented (besides the Savage Orcs, which have practically been confirmed getting one now) Squigs are some of the most likely to get plastic'd.


Mind, this is all opinion / speculation.

I'd love some plastic Stone Trolls, but I see this as "probably not happening"...

TBD wrote:

The haphazard nature by which Orc & Goblin armies are mustered results in a huge variety of unruly mobs of squabbling warriors and bla...

Looks like the people hoping they would drop animosity get their hopes dashed.

Yes, because Animosity was only introduced in the last book, and most certainly hasn't been a defining feature of the army for yonks. Honest.

Alpharius wrote:I'd love some plastic Stone Trolls, but I see this as "probably not happening"...

Why not ? It would follow on from other monstrous infantry where they seem to be up-sizeing the models to a more imposing build eg-minotaurs and river trolls and going further back ogres.

Kroothawk wrote:Here a news update by Frgt/10 over at Warseer:

- O&Gs are 100% coming in march
- the night gobbo sneaky unit are attachments to regular NG units like fanatics. similar to assassins but more like 'hangers-on' than 'professional killers' (note that this conflicts with Harrys report that it was a common gobbo addition, but i was told NG *shrugs*)
- plastic savage orcs
- new wurrzagg model from what ive heard (might be wrong on this one though)
- the new book is to old army books in a way that the 8th edition RB is to older edition RBs

reds8n wrote: I would suggest that Goblin players will be happy with this book indeed.
Thanks to Mr. frgt/10 from Warseer

-the night gobbo sneaky unit are attachments to regular NG units like fanatics. similar to assassins but more like 'hangers-on' than 'professional killers' (note that this conflicts with Harrys report that it was a common gobbo addition, but i was told NG *shrugs*)
-plastic savage orcs
-new wurrzagg model from what ive heard (might be wrong on this one though)
- the new book is to old army books in a way that the 8th edition RB is to older edition RBs

thanks reds8n

jprp wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I'd love some plastic Stone Trolls, but I see this as "probably not happening"...

Why not ? It would follow on from other monstrous infantry where they seem to be up-sizeing the models to a more imposing build eg-minotaurs and river trolls and going further back ogres.

Because of the plastic common troll (which many people already use as a Stone Troll replacement) and that GW plays obvious favorites, probably. Just as Night Goblins are their favorite in regard to Gobbos, River Trolls are GW's favorites in regard to Trolls.

And about animosity: It's probably here to stay, but it's still a shame seeing GW go "Here's buffs for this army, here's buffs for that army... let's give these penalties to miscasts and animosity to Orcs." "What about advantages?" "Market their unpredictability / unreliability as fun, we'll let the market do the rest."

And again...animosity has been part of Orcs and Gobbos for YEARS. Only became a problem when people became tournament obsessed.

Animosity is imho one of the best things in Warhammer
Guess it is a pain if you are competitive tourney players.
For me it is a laugh.

New O&G book?
bah! bought a book this year. Not buying another.

Yeah, its a laugh to have the same unit sqaubble for 3 turns as the enemy turns the flank where they should have been.
Or you have the perfect charge lined up for the Boarboys, who looked like they might have been worth their points for once, and they blow it.
Yeah, that's hilarious....

Its really not. It is just frustrating.
"Fun" is the Doomglider, or Pump Wagon. Stupid crazy stuff.
Not having units fight each other instead of the enemy.

If they leave in Animosity, they better give a points bonus to compensate for at least 1/6 of your army doing feth-all every turn.

Well it makes me laugh
but like I said I ain't playing to be competitive

It's better than po faced High Elves or Empire.

In all the fantasy novels I've read so far involving orcs and goblins, animosity as it currently stands doesn't accurately represent their animosity as written. Never does it say they march all the way across the field, and once they get within inches of their opponent, they turn and start fighting each other. It's actually quite the opposite, once an opponent is in sight, their bloodlust takes over and they charge in with reckless abandon, the only time they "squabble" is when things don't go their way.

So, as much as I like the fluff and think animosity should stay, it needs to be changed a lot to properly fit the orcy theme, currently it's just a rather annoying mechanic.

Sorry to go OT, I am really looking forward to the new book, I hope I can run something close to my old Grimgor's 'Ard Boyz list from 6th/storm of chaos.

It's not about being a competitive tournament player.
It's about having a reasonable shot at winning a friendly game.

Animosity turns it into "if I roll well on the Animosity rolls, I won't auto-lose".

It never helps you, it only hurts. There is no bonus to offset the rule.

Never mind animosity. How about those Empire troops only hitting with 50% of their attacks! EMPIRE NEED MOAR POWERZ!

Actually that sounds a fair point Greenbay
As much as they love a fight, the closer they get to an enemy, the desire to bash someone else would surely override the need to bash each other.

In that vein, wouldn't it make sense to roll on a table to see if units are deployed at the start of the game? Like reserves. Roll a 1, the units squabblin'. They won't deploy until after turn 1. Just something that popped into my head while this thread gets thoroughly derailed about animosity like any proppa OnG thread

I'm gonna bet my top dollar that the orc chariot gets an update - even if only to make the boars that pull it along match with the new boar boys.

Mr Mystery wrote:And again...animosity has been part of Orcs and Gobbos for YEARS. Only became a problem when people became tournament obsessed.

Mr Mystery wrote:Never mind animosity. How about those Empire troops only hitting with 50% of their attacks! EMPIRE NEED MOAR POWERZ!

Here's an idea: If you're going to vehemently defend the continuation of something... perhaps you should give a proper reason? Instead of throwing a tantrum and trying to make it look like the people who want to see changes to it are spoiled elitst hobbyists that live to win?

Orc Special Rules, right now, are as follows:

Animosity. Practically only non-harmful when used alongside-
Waaagh. Which still is a liability (16% chance for D6 casualties to your unit, if playing with a cheesy git potentially D6 casualties then D6 S5 hits for every attached BOrc character).
Ignore little 'un panic.
Miscast Table with a one-in-six chance of killing your casting Wizard (or twice as high as the chance for any other army barring Ogres).

Overall, not too bad, but definitely nothing to write home about. Nothing up there counter-acts the negatives of Animosity, and the Miscast table is icing on the cake. You have two (well, three) ways to mitigate Animosity, and only three:
1) Azhag. Only has a 6" bubble, but technically the "safest" negation bought from characters. Catch is he's never going to be sitting within 6" of your units (at least not for long).
2) Black Orc bosses. You can get your units to actually behave as normal (not buffs, behave as normal)... at the cost of D6 S5 hits on the unit. Which can cost you anywhere from 0 points in casualties, to over 100pts (if put in something like Boar Boyz).
3) Not taking units that suffer Animosity. Unfortunately, all the units that don't suffer from such are Special or Rare, or don't count towards minimum core requirements (Snotlings).

Of the above, none remove the threat of animosity. Furthermore, they all (barring the third) do nothing to address the 6 result on animosity. Why is the 6 bad, not all good? Forcing archers to move, and thus suffer an additional -1 to hit. Forcing a unit into a combat you really don't want them in, thus causing a break in your lines as they're suddenly ran off and you have a nice healthy enemy regiment in the center of your lines.

Animosity adds character to the army... but that's it. About nine times out of ten, the character leads to frustration instead of amusement. Warhammer's a game, as in played for fun. I get maybe one-to-two games a week on average of it. I don't spend the time leaving my house, going to the shop, and putting all the stuff in and out of cases merely so I can call just how badly I will be beaten / where everything will go wrong in a game (seriously: Watch a long-playing O&G player for a few days. They'll start calling when they'll fail their animosity rolls, often with alarming degrees of success, and the battles turn from "Close and fun" into "O&G army comes apart at seams).

To put it into another game's terms, imagine in Monopoly if every one in six turns you counted as landing on someone's hotels, and another one in six turns you "merely" counted as landing on their three-house property. But it starts from Turn 1, before anyone has even had a chance to buy property (the money instead going into free parking, of which the O&G can never claim the hotel money in the space). Furthermore, if either of those two-in-six turns still result in paying another player, you must still pay them.

You're the only person at the table this happens with. No-one else has the House / Hotel paying rule in addition to the regular gameplay. Everyone else is telling you "Stop playing to win, jeeze. Whiney bugger," whenever you bring this fact up.


I would be fine if Animosity were like 6th edition mixed with Storm-of-Chaos units within range of the idol. In that situation, Animosity happened one-in-six turns. You could mitigate it with Black Orcs turning it into a 1-in-36 turns bit, and you didn't suffer casualties. If you were within range of an enemy unit to charge and you failed animosity, you could elect to suffer the normal result or choose to charge the enemy unit in range (that being your price to pay for animosity instead, rushing forward to hit the enemy in an unruly mob). Heck, even cutting out the SoC bit, I'd be happier with animosity as it was instead of animosity as it is.

Something is telling me that that are not going to be comedic anymore..(GRIMDARK)

I think Minsc makes good points. Losing control of your units/character whatever in a game is never fun no matter the game type, unless they 1: get crazy awesome and butcher things when they do, or 2: are so cheap you don't mind because they are not critical due to the redundancy of cheap units. I like the idea of 2d6ing for it, 2 and 12 or 2/3 and 11/12 giving the weird results. Either that or a points drop for all units that have it. I actually would prefer the 2d6 though, just because a points decrease will likely mean you less screwed when animosity doesn't cause issues, and you have a large advantage when it doesn't. Hard to say though depending on the points drop.

You forgot Option 4. Realise that if winning is everything to you, you might not want to play Orcs and Gobbos.

I respect that the Orc Warriors have dated quite well, but this would have been a good opportunity to at least recut the sprue and release them in boxes of ten. Instead, it looks like they're going to stick with that stupid box of 16 standard orcs and 3 command models...

...unless recutting the sprue doesn't count as replacing the models in GW's eyes.

Animosity
because
as the greenskins are likely to squabble amongst themselves at the drop of a hat, so too O&G players are likely to squabble about Animosity!

You know it makes sense

Think that is the thing Wehrkind.
I maybe wrong but there is no equivalent negative "characterful" attribute among the other armies?
So it neads to have some compensation to buffer the O&G.
Or else a similar thing for the other armies (not gonna happen)

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
I maybe wrong but there is no equivalent negative "characterful" attribute among the other armies?

Well technically there the undead crumbling but not too much opposition to that

kenshin620 wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
I maybe wrong but there is no equivalent negative "characterful" attribute among the other armies?

Well technically there the undead crumbling but not too much opposition to that

Because they have all the benefits of being undead as well. Ignoring the majority of the Psychology rules is a very powerful up-side.

There is no up-side to animosity as it stands.

Mr Mystery wrote:You forgot Option 4. Realise that if winning is everything to you, you might not want to play Orcs and Gobbos.

Why should orc players feel they have to play at a handicap to other races? Yes, I play to win, as I do at every game I play from checkers to videogames. Playing to win doesn't mean OMG hardcore tourney player! Warhammer, when boiled down, is a game of strategy and tactics, wanting to win shouldn't be a crime.

There's a difference between WAAC and playing to win, people seem to want to clump those together into a generalized statement these days.

I shouldn't be slammed as being WAAC for wanting a change to what is evidenced as a clear handicap with no upside, no other army rule in all of fantasy is structured as such.

No one (that I have seen) has asked to have the rule removed, just altered to not be such a complete hindrance. My last game of warhammer I played my empire against an orc list, the game was essentially over from the the start as his unit bunkering his lvl 4 spent two turns squabbling before fleeing off the table due to a comet, if that unit was free to move, they could have been the first unit inside the watchtower (the mission we were playing) and took a high advantage as I didn't have much that could have gotten that mob out of there, instead the game was essentially a massacre with him not being able to do anything.

Anyway, rant over.


I'm hoping with the official announcement, more rumors will surface, though I doubt anything substantial will be out till late January at the earliest.

I am especially curious how this new night goblin detachment character will work, obviously he'll be hiding like a fanatic? I wonder how they will make it worth more than just a very poor man's assassin.

yeah but some of us like playing the greenskins because of the crazy fun factor.
Why should we be denied our hilarity.

Having said that, tbh I can understand the frustration.
It will be a difficult one to resolve to keep both parties happy. So here's hoping the new codex pulls the squigg out of the hat. (do Orcs wear hats?)

OnG still have plenty of stuff to make them entertaining, it's why I still play them, there's:

Squig herd explosions
Doom divers
Fanatics
Nets (it's hilarious when other people's S3 troops have to wound your night goblins on 5s, or elite chaos warriors wound you on 4s)
Kamikaze goblin heroes (mounted with the trinket that goes boom and the one hit wunda - had this take out a unit of chaos knights!)

Actually, I find animosity to be one of the least fun things about them, as I stated earlier, it just doesn't make any sense, even from a fluff stand point.

Why are the greenskins getting yet another incoming! ? isnt it time for the tomb kings yet at all maybe ill actually be interested in WHFB then cause I love them but not if everyone else is updated and the kings are left...in the dust

sounds cool. But whats that crazy spider thing going to look like if its going to be that big Better wait and find out i guess

Goblins with bows (not Short bows) would be a positive step-has anyone ever done any damage with shortbows?
I would also like to see wider options of greatweapons-this to me would be the weapon of choice for most orscs (and trolls and giants) rather than the chopper.

Mr Mystery wrote:You forgot Option 4. Realise that if winning is everything to you, you might not want to play Orcs and Gobbos.

See, that's what get's players furious. You seem to make the choice one of "Winning is all that matters!!!" or "I just play to push around pieces of plastic before I lose." Is there no possibility of a middle ground, where a player wants an army that isn't auto-lose, but isn't game breaking? Is it too much to ask that Orcs get to play games where the actual skill of the general matters more than a random special rule? Or is every player who likes the fluff of Orcs and Greenskins required to consign himself to never winning except by dumb luck in order to play?

Winning doesn't have to be everything, but it is nice to be able to do it every once in a while when playing a competitive game. Losing because your army has a very troublesome special rule that is extremely difficult to work around is not fun by any stretch of the imagination. If your actions and your opponent's are not the prime decider in who wins the game, it is a poorly designed game.

Let's see, I think you still failed to see why the animosity is on the army rules in the first place. The animosity is there to compensate the fact that orcs had better stats than humans (mostly because the T4), and they cost the same.
I play with orcs, and I've managed to won tournaments with them. Just mitigate the animosity with black orc bosses, and you'll be fine. In 8th edition this is even more true, because 1d6 S5 hits aren't very troublesome for units of 25+ orcs. And if you're in combat they are no animosity checks.

In 8th I've fount the orcs could be the most fastest army in the game. Start with a march movement of 8". On second turn scream waaagh! with your general, if you have large infantry orc units with a black orc boss in it, you will move 2d6" on a roll of 2+ (on a roll of 1, just take 1d6 S5 and you can move later on movement phase). Then march 8" again. Now in the magic Phase cast Waaagh! (with 6 dice and power scroll), so all your orc units will move 2d6", rerolling misses to hit and having ASF. So you can move 16+4d6" on two turns. From 20" to 40".

Please stop whining and start playing. I play orcs because of the animosity if I wanted an stable and powerfull army, then I choosed Chaos.

What about all goblin lists? Even with black orcs, now you have an army designing itself to taking atleast 1D6 S5 hits every turn if you have more than 6 units? (very likely with orcs).

Also, having to take those black orcs limits the character options. OnG have around 14 character choices, so now we're limited to 2? (black orc warboss/big boss) Sounds like a great idea....

And the strategy you listed can be mitigated with the easiest of strategies, an extra D6" move for a turn, especially if not used fora surprise charge, isn't going to accomplish too much.

That's great you've won a tournament with orcs, I have too, doesn't mean they're adequate. I've heard of necron players and tomb kings players winning tournaments also, does that mean those codexes/armybooks are ok?

It's not whining, it's more of constructive criticism of a poorly designed rule. I play orcs because I love their mentality, what I don't like is an army wide rule that doesn't even make any sense, realistic or fluff wise. I've already stated why, so I'm not going to repeat it.

As far as comparing them to empire troops, even without animosity the comparisons are pretty similar, orcs get +1T, empire get either +1S (halberd) extra attacks (either spears or free company) and all have +1I. And if you give the orcs shields, now compare to swordsmen, same points and get +2I and +1WS. Now tack on animosity, and orcs become very over-costed.

compared with swordsmen orcs also have +1S on first round.
Chances for a orc to wound a swordsmen: 23% (4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, 6+ to save, 6+ to save)
Chances for a swordsmen to wound a orc: 12% (3+ to hit, 5+ to wound, 5+ to save, 6+ to save)

Sure they are even? really? I think not.

Still I won more games than I lost with orcs, and I'm not always use black orc bosses.

I don't want to be the new daemon army. I prefer to struggle to win using my strategy than just win because an OP armybook. If you want orcs without animosity then I suggest to look into 40k.

I also miss the 5th edition rule that force you to take a panic test when your general died, that makes a lot of sense on ocs according with the fluff. But I guess it never going to come back.

novice wrote:

I don't want to be the new daemon army. I prefer to struggle to win using my strategy than just win because an OP armybook. If you want orcs without animosity then I suggest to look into 40k..

Thanks for proving you don't read past posts. NO ONE in this thread has asked to remove it, only make it less game changing, or even actually add a positive to it. Also, no one is saying they want to be overpowered, we just want an even playing field when we hit the table.

and as to your example, put together a real combat scenario:

25 orcs, full command vs 25 swordsmen, full command: (numbers rounded to nearest whole number to make this faster)

First round:
Swordsmen swing first needing 3s with 11 attacks - 8 hits - 3 wounds - 2 past saves
Orcs swing back needing 4s to hit with 11 attacks - 6 hits - 4 wounds - 3 past saves

orcs win first round, as expected

Second round:
Swordsmen swing first needing 3s with 11 attacks - 8 hits - 3 wounds - 2 past saves
Orcs swing back needing 4s to hit with 11 attacks - 6 hits - 3 wounds - 2 past saves


So the advantage is only in the first round, my argument wasn't that they *are* equal, but that they are *close* which is proved about. Does animosity really balance it out? It's like using a nuke to kill a fly, a little overkill as far as balance.

once again, I'll say this as I'm sure you didn't read it...NO ONE wants animosity removed, just changed to not be a pure negative effect.

EDIT: sigh...I can't believe I've been letting a troll get to me.

Orcs + Gobs should get hatred - in the background it has always said they hate everyone.
Also if gobs fear elves why dont humans fear almost everything? in the real world people would be scared stiff of orcs, undead, skaven, beastmen, lizards etc-of all these only undead get the rules why? In the background many imperial citizens believe these creatures to be the stuff of legends so to be confronted with them in the flesh would be poop inducing.

Make black orc units quell squabbling like back in 6th and you will see animosity rants disappear faster than beer in a sorority girl's cup.

Mr Mystery wrote:You forgot Option 4. Realise that if winning is everything to you, you might not want to play Orcs and Gobbos.

So you're OK with just conceding every match right? If your opponent claims it will be more fun? And you don't ever at all even remotely consider if any single model at all in the entire game might ever at any point in time possibly be close to worth it's points?

Because winning is completely irrelevant to you?

Or are you just trolling the thread?

Given his grasp of grammar, I am going to suggest that he is somewhere in the larval troll stage, yea.

One other option for Animosity would be to have a 1 result in Frenzy if an enemy is within charge range, and if not result in the hits. It would still leave some uncontrollable aspects to the rule, but would at least give you a moderate bonus for getting it close to the enemy, as opposed to just sitting around while there are targets a few feet from you.

greenbay924 wrote:So the advantage is only in the first round, my argument wasn't that they *are* equal, but that they are *close* which is proved about. Does animosity really balance it out? It's like using a nuke to kill a fly, a little overkill as far as balance.

You forgot that if the orcs won by 1, the swordsmen had to check with 6 or less to stay or run for their lives, witha decent chance of failing and being cut down by the orcs.

greenbay924 wrote:once again, I'll say this as I'm sure you didn't read it...NO ONE wants animosity removed, just changed to not be a pure negative effect.

Look, let me show you the improvements to the animosity over the two last editions:

in 6th: you roll a die, if you roll a 1, then roll in the animosity table. Roll again a die, if you roll a 1 again, your unit shoots or charge another friendly unit subject to animosity. On a 2-5 the unit do nothing. On a 6 it advances.
So, you have 1/36 posibilities for turn of advancing, 1/36 of make damage to another unit (and made both unable to move) and 4/36 possibilities of your unit sit there and do nothing for 1 turn.

in 7th: much more "soft", with a 1 on the die the unid do nothing, with a 6 on the same die you advance. so 6/36 chances of advance (6 timer better than 6th), 6/36 chances of do nothing (slighty more chances than 6th), buy 0 chance of engaging your own units. I call that a real improvement.

Maybe the animosity changes again, following the "soft" tendence, maybe not, who knows. But after I read some comments it seemed to me that some people here are stating that with current animosity the orc army are crippled, and I just want to say that in my point of view they are not. They are just not so reliable as others but as a player I learned to live with it.

So.... no pics yet?

novice wrote:in 6th: you roll a die, if you roll a 1, then roll in the animosity table. Roll again a die, if you roll a 1 again, your unit shoots or charge another friendly unit subject to animosity. On a 2-5 the unit do nothing. On a 6 it advances.
So, you have 1/36 posibilities for turn of advancing, 1/36 of make damage to another unit (and made both unable to move) and 4/36 possibilities of your unit sit there and do nothing for 1 turn.

You forgot to include that the first 1/36 (the charge / shoot) only applies if such is possible, otherwise it's upgraded to the "Squabble". Furthermore, this was when your potential charge range was 8" (as opposed to 16"), I cannot quite recall if they operated under the same principle of Ruglud's (wherein LoS did not matter), and that technically it was 1/216 for the charge, 1/216 for the advance, and 1/54 for the squabble if you held any Black Orcs within 6". As opposed to now, wherein having a Black Orc in a unit provides a 0% chance for a Squabble, but does nothing for the 1/6 / 16% chance of an advancement, and a Black Orc brick (even if only one could be had / army) does not provide an area effect any more. At that time, a solitary Black Orc Hero (more often picked for Warboss, though, due to stats) and a Black Orc unit would often screen about 2/3 to the entirety of the army, so limitations in their numbers aren't quite as bad (was even better in regard to Goblins, who you would / will never put a BOrc hero in and BOrcs can't help).

novice wrote:in 7th: much more "soft", with a 1 on the die the unid do nothing, with a 6 on the same die you advance. so 6/36 chances of advance (6 timer better than 6th), 6/36 chances of do nothing (slighty more chances than 6th), buy 0 chance of engaging your own units. I call that a real improvement.

You act as though an advancing is good. Most of the time, it's neutral or negative. Do you think I want my screening Spider Riders to charge into the brick of Chaos Warriors, get reduced to one, and suddenly put a brick of Chaos Warriors in front of my General with a nice "Declare Charge" open to them next turn (or an early release of Fanatics that they CAN elect to stop for, thus not forcing them to land and take the extra D6 hits, or any hits in general for that matter?).

The advance is only good insofar as when you "control" it, and that only occurs during a Waaagh!.

novice wrote:Maybe the animosity changes again, following the "soft" tendence, maybe not, who knows. But after I read some comments it seemed to me that some people here are stating that with current animosity the orc army are crippled, and I just want to say that in my point of view they are not. They are just not so reliable as others but as a player I learned to live with it.

I'd go back to Old!Animosity style (Black Orcs in 6" quell, only happens on a 1) readily. The advance is not helpful unless all you're doing is Orc-Brick Orc-Brick Orc-Brick (and aren't bothering for tactics either, barring "ram 'em 'till they give up!") or you're using it in conjecture with a Waaagh! / you banked your unit on a 1-in-6 (meaning you made a Battleplan that specifically had a 16% chance of success in optimum conditions).

Oh yeah, one more change from animosity between editions (one that I actually AM favorable of): It went from US5 to 5 Models. US5 meant three Wolf Riders could bicker, now it needs to be 5. Much better, since that did happen now-and-then (US6 unit of three models bicker).


EDIT: Oh yeah, and do something with snotlings GW. WS2, S2, T2, W3, A3, and their current price? You can only use them as very poor screens now, and since anything short of Goblins on level terrain can be seen over Snotlings, they don't help much that way even.

Flashman wrote:Rumours of apparent substance from Warseer (i.e. Harry hints that they're accurate). They've been kicking around for a while, but not seen them here.

Book will be written by Jeremy Vetock and is scheduled for a February/March Release (I would think March as February would mean two big Fantasy releases in two months with Skaven Wave 2 in January - Woo Hoo!)

All current SCs will be kept with a few additions... Wurzzag will be back (makes sense as a model exists already) and the suggestion is two new goblin special characters

The big new army list entry is rumoured to be a giant spider known as an Arachnarok. Much like a Stegadon, it can be used either as a mount for a character or some kind of war machine (rare choice)

Not much else apart from a cryptic comment from Harry...

In 8th edition, and starting with Orcs and Goblins we can expect a whole different kind of army book. Obviously many of the same sections will be there but expect something a bit different.

The 'new format' for army books is not what people will be expecting, but trust me, it's frigging awesome!

Orcs are da biggest, da best and da 'ardest!

A bit OT but if they're dead-set on animosity it should probably just be ''affected by Stupidity for the turn on a 1'' or something. Keeps the flavor of a character keeping unruly boys in line without being quite as harsh as "on a 1 you do nothing regardless of battlefield conditions"

This soudns awesome. I don't play OnG at this moment, but will take a look at getting that arachnid mini.

MikeMcSomething wrote:A bit OT but if they're dead-set on animosity it should probably just be ''affected by Stupidity for the turn on a 1'' or something. Keeps the flavor of a character keeping unruly boys in line without being quite as harsh as "on a 1 you do nothing regardless of battlefield conditions"

The issue with this is that wizards in the unit are still unable to cast magic if they gain stupidity, I mean animosity is in essence stupidity except you don't shamble forwards, that's pretty much the only difference.

Perhaps you could do something like sacrifice d3/d6 models in the unit to negate animosity after failing. You can either accept animosity or lose some models in order to negate it. However this will have unbalanced effects on both orcs and goblins respectively, both being the antithesis of each other when it comes to unit size.

As for sacrificing, that's what Black orc characters are for.

Small update: From Darnok's summary over at Warseer:

The army book is rumoured to be hardcover, and to be a good bit bigger than the current one.
Preorders up 9th February, release of all 5th March, with 15th March possibly the 1.5 wave of Dark Eldar (Succubus heroine, Beastmaster).

We get 3 new plastic sets and 3 new blisters:
Plastic:

* Savage Orc Boyz
* Savage Orc Boar Boys
* the Aracharok Spider

Blister:

* Wurrzag on foot
* Savage Orc Great shaman on boar - He is repudetedly standing on the boar and the boar is a metal version of the new boars with slightly bigger horns and some savage orc adornements (feather/bone)
* a third blister of (yet) unknown content

According to BramGaunt this orc is featured on the next army book cover. Also this:

The Giant Spider is supposed to be able to topple a Screaming Bell without problems, regarding the size. (...)

Black Boxes should be out much sooner in the future, same goes for preorder. It fits with GW to give us a wider frame for announcements (we had GK announcement in early january). Therefor, Black Boxes for OnG should be out the first week of febuary. About 10 more day of waiting for solid infos =)

I'm torn tween Skaven and O&G. I'm thinking I'll hold out a bit to see what happens.

I'm having a hell of a time finding BFSP Goblins though.

I just hope they dont goof with the spider to much and keep it accurate.

NAVARRO wrote:I just hope they dont goof with the spider to much and keep it accurate.

Yes I agree if it doesn't look like the car sized spiders we have walking around the countryside then GW have messed up.

This O&G info better be true as it is the only way I'll paint a GW model ever again.

Yes I agree if it doesn't look like the car sized spiders we have walking around the countryside then GW have messed up.

And now for some reason I really want to burn the UK with fire.

Anyway, O&G is rumored to be hardcover? I don't know if I like the sound of that, the last thing I want to see is $50 army books. And I don't believe GW would charge any less, either, not when a black and white paperback under 100 pages is $30.

I see the book definitely being in color at least!!

Hardcover army books, I'm not sure I like that trend, if it occurs, unless the book as a metric butt ton of options and fluff.

I don't think hardback army books are a bad idea seeing as most books are going to be around for about ten years.

Sidstyler wrote:

Yes I agree if it doesn't look like the car sized spiders we have walking around the countryside then GW have messed up.

And now for some reason I really want to burn the UK with fire.

.

Really? I want to move there! I mean, if it has big bugs I will feel all cozy and cuddly

Hardback armybooks, as somebody has already suggested, just strikes me as a reason to charge more money. If this flies, expect all the existing paperback army books to be re-released in hardback... which would make GW the only publishing company to release paperback editions before going to hardback

I'm looking forward to seeing the Savage Orcs and whatever this spider rock lobber thing is, but I'm kind of surprised at the lack of new entries given the success of all the new skaven stuff (doom flayer, plague furnace/catapult, abomination).

It's odd that GW don't advance things very much sometimes. On the one hand I guess it would irritating for vet O&G players to have to buy a load of new units, but on the other hand I can't see the O&G release shifting a lot of new models like the skaven book has. Plus it doesn't sound like they're going to need a Wave 2. Still I suppose there could still be some surprises in the release...

If O&G go hardback and at $50 a book (or even just $40), this is probably the last army I'll continue work on maintaining / updating with the editions. I'm not going to put out $115-$125+ for each new editions' rulebook and a single core book: It simply isn't feasible.

Plastic SOrcs, however, is an "About damn time". Hopefully they'll be some good models, sorta like plasticized versions of the current metal ones, and not, well, let's just say "over the top" with design. Also, I'm predicting they'll either go at standard Orc Boyz pricing (19 for 35), or the "Standard" $25 / 10 pricing for many kits now.

Some more rumours:

BramGaunt wrote:For the book: It's supposed to be full color, hardcover, 130+ pages.(...)
My guess would be +50% price, yes. Sadly.

Darnok wrote:Just something a little bird told me:

Animosity is going to get a bit more complex. Units are supposed to infight and/or shoot/attack others. But the potential benefits are bigger as well.

In general, the point costs are supposed to be lower.

The Arachnork spider is going to be huge (just think of a beast being able to spit on the WHF buildings - from above!). The profile is based around the number 7... its biggest problem seems to be the goblin crew.

Choppas give a strenght-bonus in the first round of a charge. Every Ork weapon is a choppa now - spears, magical weapons... a BO would attack with +3S in the first round of combat, as an example.

The number of magic items is going to be drastically reduced.

Feral Orks on boars... think S5... potentially 4A... dangerous on the charge...

Black Orks might get another attack on top of what they have, and seem to be more dangerous than before.

Most interesting: there are a few new units without models. When those will be released... no idea.

Again: thank you little bird.

Believe it when I see it...as usual.

I do have high hopes for this one as the author, Jeremy, was very enthusiastic about it.

Ah, sounds like there might well be new stuff in the book... guess we'll see

So a spider bigger than a house

The spider sounds good, but overall I can't help but to feel disappointed about the small number of new (plastic) items.

And I am fine with the current army books/codex. I don't need a more expensive hardcover.

To be fair, they had a big second wave of plastics last May.

Flashman wrote:Hardback armybooks, as somebody has already suggested, just strikes me as a reason to charge more money. If this flies, expect all the existing paperback army books to be re-released in hardback....

Actually I would suggest it much more likely that this will mean all future army books will be in this format, I really wouldn't hold out for reprints of the "current" books.

I wonder what the motivation is behind suddenly going hardback and full colour. If it is true mind ya'll.

It's keeping the style that the 8th edition Warhammer book and gaming aids set. And personally I like this style and fnd it inspiring.

So if this works we can expect the 6th edition of 40k to go down a similar road as well. Interesting.

Kroothawk wrote:To be fair, they had a big second wave of plastics last May.

True, but perhaps they could have released other stuff back then and have a big release now. This feels like a glorified second wave release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

reds8n wrote:

Flashman wrote:Hardback armybooks, as somebody has already suggested, just strikes me as a reason to charge more money. If this flies, expect all the existing paperback army books to be re-released in hardback....

Actually I would suggest it much more likely that this will mean all future army books will be in this format, I really wouldn't hold out for reprints of the "current" books.

Could it mean the Grey Knights codex is hardcover as well?

Kroothawk wrote:[Snip]

Thanks for the Darnok stuff, going to cover it by quoting him directly:

Darnok wrote:Animosity is going to get a bit more complex. Units are supposed to infight and/or shoot/attack others. But the potential benefits are bigger as well.

I don't mind potential for greater loss... if for Gork's sake, it's not "One in six" still. Rolls of one rolling on a table like the old book (but with six now making you attack yourself instead of charging forward), and Six still making you charge forward (but now with probably something like "Hatred" or "Frenzy" added on that turn) is not an improvement in any way, and in fact a damn sight worse.

Hopefully, by more "Complex", they don't just mean "Combine 6th Ed and 7th Ed with some special rules thrown in." Being GW, however, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if this was the case.

Darnok wrote:In general, the point costs are supposed to be lower.

Depending on how Animosity is changed, either yay or boo (boo because that might be making them a bit too strong, depending on how Animosity works / other changes). A Common Goblin with Shield and Spear is as much as a Clanrat with Shield and Spear. Personally, which one would you take: The WS2 I2 Ld6 one, or the WS3 I4 Ld5-8 one?

Darnok wrote:The Arachnork spider is going to be huge (just think of a beast being able to spit on the WHF buildings - from above!). The profile is based around the number 7... its biggest problem seems to be the goblin crew.

I can't see it being WS7, but interesting concept none the less. I7 I can somewhat readily see (since Giant Spiders are already the fastest models in the current army that aren't Night Goblin Lords), but the only thing I can really see 7's otherwise is Leadership, Attacks, and Wounds. Strength seven is stronger than a Giant, Toughness seven is tougher than a Giant, etcetera. Hopefully this isn't intended as a replacement to the Giant, but...

Wait, can a Giant ride an Arachnork?

Darnok wrote:Choppas give a strenght-bonus in the first round of a charge. Every Ork weapon is a choppa now - spears, magical weapons... a BO would attack with +3S in the first round of combat, as an example.

I can understand this, if a bit lamentable. +1 Strength the first round for a single handed weapon, charge or not, was a bit rough - especially with the new "Strike back" rules - in that a unit of Big 'Uns would carve you up even if you charged them (Oh hai, enjoy my 18 S5 attacks back). Added to Great Weapons and Spears and the like, though? Ehhhh, sorta interesting there. For Great Weapons, we're looking at basic BOrcs being S7 then, which is a bit nasty. Spears I can understand as now people might actually want to use them again (And have a reason to charge with them, too), but Magic Items is an odd one (unless it's tacked on like how a lot of current Orc magic items gave +1S the first round).

Darnok wrote:The number of magic items is going to be drastically reduced.

No surprise there. I already predicted that things going bye-bye this edition will be:
Screamin' Sword
Amulet of Protectyness
Tricksy Trinket
Collar of Zorga

And a few other items. If these avoid the cut, I'll be surprised. Would imagine there to be at least two solid pages of magic items, though (or one full page front-to-back, anyways). I can't see them cutting to less than one full page of magic items a book, unless they really want to make character builds alike.

Darnok wrote:Feral Orks on boars... think S5... potentially 4A... dangerous on the charge...

Will they be different than Savage Orcs, or the same with a separate name (translation to Feral?)? S5 and A4 is about right with them from last edition, if made Big 'Uns. And unless they provide more bonus' than "S5 A3 / A4", they still aren't going to be worth it unless taking a major price drop.

Darnok wrote:Black Orks might get another attack on top of what they have, and seem to be more dangerous than before.

'bout time. Don't get me wrong: They had good statlines. WS4, no Animosity, S4, potential for 4+ / 6+ save, "Armed to da Teef", not bad. However, they aren't a unit that 400+ points a justified makes.

Darnok wrote:Most interesting: there are a few new units without models. When those will be released... no idea.

Good thing I still have a few boxes to build.

Didn't see it, but the Orcs and Goblins black box should be in your local gaming stores sometime around feb 11th

I've heard that us O&G players are getting a monster like the stegadon but its might be a wyvern type monster; and their could be a new plastic orc boyz kit.

I have an idea about the new 'Format' of the books. What if it takes after our rulebooks, where we get a nice hardcover book...and a plastic box set with a watered down copy? Wouldn't it be absolutely killer (I mean common sense, sorry) to have the Battalions contain not only a playable starter army but rules for that army to boot? The Hardcovers would be for the Collectors or the Vets that already have an army.

Personally I love hardcover books, I'm a collector

What prevents GW from printing both soft and hard cover army books?

Privateer does it with their 2 rule books and 10 faction books.

More rumours by Blutkind over at Warseer:

Arachnorak:
Bigger as the Screaming Bell
Can be a mount for a shaman
Can be a mount for a bolt thrower or a net launcher (this one reduces stats).
Rare Choice

Goblin Slittaz:
Upgrade for normal Goblin units, but they are not hiding.
WS 4
A 3, Armourpiercing, ASF
Looking like Ninjas

Wurzzag on foot is coming definitely.
Savage Orcs Boars 5 in one box
Savage Orcs 10 in one box, but so much parts, that you can say you have 11.

... and BramGaunt:

General Orc boys could get a point more expensive, with a possible improvement in stats.

Goblins could get a little cheaper.

Choppa's indeed apply to any weapon.

Trolls move from rare to special, while rivertrolls and stonetrolsl remain rare.

Savage Orcs get a very fun option I will reveal when the pics of the miniatures are shown, though they speak for themselves... =)

Oh, and there apperantly IS a kind of Squig fanatic. I still don't buy this one.

Ninja Goblins?! that sounds awesome and I would have to buy some of them just for fun. Better sounding idea than the Ogre ninja Maneater. I mean an ogre a ninja really, that would be the funniest thing ever a stealthy ogre!!

Can't wait to see the new minis and may dig out the boyz for a new waaaggghh.

blast, now i'm gonna be at work thinking about how to incorporate ninja goblins into my grot guard

Well Ogre Kingdoms need it more, but they better keep the night goblins nice and cheap, or do some extra special and rare choices. New stone trolls would be cool too.

Well I guess I need large spiders for my boar boys and have a spider loving orc and gobbo army.

Seem's GW seen where the RPGs have been going for a while.

They generally sell less than anything else associated in the army (par special characters) so want to gain maximum profit by making them hardback to justify a hike in the cost of the book.

If it is I'm seeing £25-30 same as a typical RPG book. If's it's less than £25 I'd be pretty impressed, at £20 it's not even a worry.

However if it was say upper end near £30, will that wash with the parents buying stuff for their kiddies getting into the hobby, I'd suggest it'll be another negative.

I persoanlly don't mind paying the extra myself if its good quality.
As a collector of a couple of RPG's, there is something marvellous about have a lined up set of Hardbacks on the shelf.

NAVARRO wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:

Yes I agree if it doesn't look like the car sized spiders we have walking around the countryside then GW have messed up.

And now for some reason I really want to burn the UK with fire.

.

Really? I want to move there! I mean, if it has big bugs I will feel all cozy and cuddly

Burn the bug man! Burn him!

skrulnik wrote:What prevents GW from printing both soft and hard cover army books?

Greed. lol

"Make them in hardcover so they'll be more expensive, and don't offer paperback anymore. They'll have to pay more!"

You really think they'd go through all the trouble of giving us an option? I don't. I'd like to be wrong though, because personally I'd love expensive, full-color, hardcover army books/codices, but only if I don't need to buy one.

Not to mention it's just impractical, trying to carry around something like that to every game...

I just hope the new animosity rule is more fun. It does add character to the army, but the current rules for it are just kind of a drag.

Kroothawk wrote:More rumours by Blutkind over at Warseer:

Thanks again, Kroot.

Arachnorak:
Bigger as the Screaming Bell
Can be a mount for a shaman
Can be a mount for a bolt thrower or a net launcher (this one reduces stats).
Rare Choice

Going to be interesting. I imagine it'll be priced between 200 and 250 / 300 points, much closer to the 300 depending on how many of the stats are 7's like the rumors said (Ex: I7 probably wouldn't net too many points, nor M7. A7 and either S7, T7, or W7, however..).

Spider Stegadon, essentially, from what this looks like?

Goblin Slittaz:
Upgrade for normal Goblin units, but they are not hiding.
WS 4
A 3, Armourpiercing, ASF
Looking like Ninjas

Might buy a few for appearance's sake, but they're going to need more than that (Or Night Goblins less than they have) to make Common Gobbos a worthwhile unit (Or, more accurately, worthwhile to consider alongside Night Goblins). Well, unless you can buy multiple per unit instead of one like a DElf Assassin (two-to-three of them in a unit, as an example). A "Hero" for a common Goblin unit is nice, but it's very rare for a solitary Goblin Hero with a biting blade to turn the tide for a Common Goblin unit (Maybe if you're attacking Men-at-Arms or Skellies..). Same stats besides Initiative (In Night Goblin Favor), Leadership (In common goblin favor), armor (can be Common favor, but "vanilla" / naked a Night has better), Nights can use Fanatics and Netters, and Nights Hate Dwarf. Dwarf Hatred, higher initiative, Fanatics, Netters, and starting with shields instead of Light Armor are all notable buffs for Nights over Common, and - while this helps to give a reason for Common - that means Common are usually pushed aside unless you're doing an All-Goblin Army that isn't lead by special characters (Since only a Common Warboss can get Ld8, 9 with the BSB of +1 Leadership).

Wurzzag on foot is coming definitely.

Hopefully we'll still have him on a Boar as well.

Savage Orcs Boars 5 in one box
Savage Orcs 10 in one box, but so much parts, that you can say you have 11.

Savage I imagine will be either $25 or $30, unless GW raises their price simply because they're "better" and thus figure both more likely to be bought and standard "Better stuff costs more".

SOrcs, yeah, I'm seeing $25 to $30 a box readily enough. Still cheaper than back when they were metal, as even then 10 Metal cost more than $25, but a shame in that it'll mean something like three boxes a unit (instead of three boxes for two). Price isn't my concern, just that I'll be buying the unit more piecemeal.

General Orc boys could get a point more expensive, with a possible improvement in stats.

If they get a point more expensive, I don't think many people would whine THAT loudly. At least, depending on what changes to Animosity are made. They're still WS3, 6+ save, S3(4), T4. Not amazing for the price, but not terrible at 6pts / model either. However, I'd hope there was an improvement, as I still recall the drive from 6th to 7th Orcs where many models received point increases that either were backed by no stat changes, or decreases in statlines (For example, the Black Orc Unit Champion that went up in points and lost strength in the bargain).

Goblins could get a little cheaper.

2-2.5 points a model, with half-point wargear, would be pretty decent. Compare with a Skaven Slave:
WS = Same, BS = 1 point in Gobbo Favor. M = 1 Point Skaven Slave favor, initiative equals one-to-two point in Skaven favor, Courage vanilla is 3-4 points Gobbo favor, 0-1 favor when including special rules. Skaven Slaves explode when dead, Night Goblins animosity.

I could see 2.5 points per model, but keeping them at three with each wargear option a full point is silly. A common gobbo is the same cost as a Skaven Clanrat with the same gear (LArmor, Shield, Spear), and there it's one point leadership Gobbo favor over no-rank Skaven, WS in Skaven Favor, Move in Skaven Favor, Initiative in Skaven Favor, Animosity in Skaven's favor (since Gobbos don't really benefit from Animosity at all).

Choppa's indeed apply to any weapon.

Any Orc weapon, I hope. I imagine if GW accidentally forgets this first publish we'll see tons of people applying Choppas to Goblins.

Trolls move from rare to special, while rivertrolls and stonetrolsl remain rare.

Better do something to improve the two Rare versions. No point rises, either, unless the stats / rules are increasing too. Currently, Trolls only really shine when either:
A) Bought in packs of eight or more (Which is 320 for the cheapest variety, 480 for the others)
B) Buffed by Magic
C) Attacking Heavy Cavalry, Skirmishers, or hitting Flanks

And usually, it needs to be a combination of two of the above. River Trolls get that -1 to hit, yeah, but at a 50% price increase that's not too great (at least unless the opponent fails Fear, then it can be useful as they're now only hit on 6's). Without a failed Fear, the 50% price rise isn't made up (8 River Trolls = 12 Common Trolls price, and I'd take two six troll units over one eight River Troll unit). Stone, meanwhile, lose out due to having Last-Edition Magic Resistance, as well as a Scaly Skin save that mostly only applies when hit by Fireballs (same as their Magic Resistance), or S3 non-armor piercing shots (which still doesn't make-up their points on its own there). Some changes are hopefully in store for the Trolls, or they'll probably remain a "Used when you're facing that one Bretonnian Player" unit.

Savage Orcs get a very fun option I will reveal when the pics of the miniatures are shown, though they speak for themselves... =)

Again, just hoping that they're not... well... 40K Metal Possessed, in plastic Orcy form. The current metal models were great, just too expensive to feasibly make into 30+ sized units.

Some tidbits about the hardcover book:

BramGaunt wrote:I dunno about the price, but heraldry and uniforms is not part of the book. (...)
There's more space needed for more units, and some current army entries could get split up (eg big ones and 'normal' boys), and the lore part is supposed to be at least twice as strong, but it's still a lot of space to fill. I havn't read the book so far, and therefor I cannot say for sure, I can only guess.

Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

That's on pg. xiii. Just happened to be rereading the book and decided to look for this. It's definitely just as large as the wyvern in the same picture and there's at least 4 shields of gobbos I can see riding it.

Nice spotting, Ehsteve.

Can't take all the credit, thanks goes to my FLGS staff.

But dear god it looks awesome, I am simply trying to get my head around how they managed to put the thing together, especially considering the size of the legs/thorax and it being a plastic kit.

But then again that was my thoughts about the Hellpit Abomination.

The recent Fantasy releases have been amazing in detail and scale (unlike the unfortunate Stormraven incident for WH40k). I can't imagine this being a custom conversion or anything non-GW, why would they place this if it was a non-GW product or if the rules hadn't yet been produced for the mini?

Ehsteve wrote:Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

can you scan a picture for those of us at home?

Acardia wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

can you scan a picture for those of us at home?

Unfortunately I am unequipped for such a task. Maybe someone else will be able to in the near future

That spider has been brought up before. If it is the new spider I expect O&G players will be very disappointed as it is nothing more than a 3-UP of the ordinary size forest goblin spider with a scratch-built howdah on the back.

Ehsteve wrote:Ummm, if I'm not mistaken (and if it has not already been posted before).

I noticed within the first few pages of the 8th ed Rulebook on one of the O&G army display pictures, in the top right, there was a giant spider, far larger than the current plastic Spider Riders and dwarfing the Gigantic Spider.

Can't give exact page number as of this very moment, but food for thought that maybe this could be the infamous new plastic spider?

Looks broader and about as tall as a stegadon model, resembles a giant Spider from the Spider Riders, picture isn't clear. Looks like this model has been a long time coming (so since back before September).

That is, alas, merely a converted 3 up of the existing spider riders.

..this kit is much better. Allegedly.

I believe they are making plastic savage orcs and trolls (also Stone and Normal)

Gork and Mork! Let it be that we get plastic Trolls of the Stone and Normal Troll varieties! Savage Orcs would be nice too. Any word on wolf riders or normal Goblins?

Kroothawk wrote:We get 3 new plastic sets and 3 new blisters:
Plastic:

* Savage Orc Boyz
* Savage Orc Boar Boys
* the Aracharok Spider

Blister:

* Wurrzag on foot
* Savage Orc Great shaman on boar - He is repudetedly standing on the boar and the boar is a metal version of the new boars with slightly bigger horns and some savage orc adornements (feather/bone)
* a third blister of (yet) unknown content

... and the third blister is the ninja goblins.

NINJA goblins yay! yay! yay! VERY ORIGINAL!... OH wait... Rackham 6 or 7 years ago Uraken Goblins

Huzzah! plastic savage orcs & Epic spider!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perhaps new O&G battle magic?

bloodaxegit wrote:Perhaps new O&G battle magic?

I'd say that's a given. I can't think of an army book re-do that passed up the opportunity to mess with the spells (assuming the army has a race specific lore). Expect the old favourites like Hand of Gork to stay in some form or other though.

Yay, squishing generals with mork wants ya!

I expect Brainbursta, Gazes, Hand, and Bash 'Em to remain. Bash 'Em because it's a stereotypical combat buff, Hand a stereotypical combat buff, Gazes because they work brilliantly as a Signature Spell, and Brainbursta as it fills the role of a typical Magic Missile.

Waaagh!, if kept, is probably either going to lose some bonus', change in its effects, go up in Casting Value, or some combination of the three. "Whole army can move 2D6 forward toward nearest visible enemy, enemies hit by this can only choose to Hold, all units hit by this have ASF & Re-Rolls until the end of your turn" is just too much for this edition (And, indeed, was even complained about last edition) for a 12+ Casting Value spell.

Foot and Warpath are probably going to be combined, with Foot being a lower casting value and Warpath being the "Can bounce onto other units".

'eadbutt, maybe it'll stay. Not too sure. It meets the typical "Sniping" magic requirement, but magical sniping isn't as much a commonality as magic buffs and magic missiles.

Fists seems like it'd be the "Mega" Orc Offensive Spell, if kept, likely upgraded in some manner that either increases the odds of hitting or the strength of the hits. Already it's one of the most powerful offensive spells in the game when hitting any unit 25 or more models big (Since at 25 or more models big, you're statistically breaking the most possible hits on a 2D6 magic missile when rolling average). Probably two forms, which will either have varying strength (S4 to S5?) or hit ratio (4's or 5's to hit to one less than that?).

All I really feel comfortable speculating on at the moment.

A new batch of rumours posted by Darnok over at Warseer:

1. The Araknarok can carry a rock lobber, a shaman or an icon that makes all friendly orc and goblin units and characters within 12 inches Stubborn
2. It's the biggest FB monster kit they've ever made. It's bigger than the Stegadon or the Screaming Bell
3. There's an option with the Savage Orcs to carry a stone axe so big that it takes two models to do so: that's why someone mentioned there are 11 Savage Orcs in the box...sort of. It's another figure that's specifically to help with the big axe.
4. The battalion box wasn't mentioned in the meeting he went to: he said he thinks it might come in a sort of "third wave" of releases, a couple of months after the others.
5. The rulebook's definately hardback. I can't remember if he said 112 pages or 120
6. Boys box sets are going down to 15 models, for roughly the same price.
7. Savage orc boar boys will be the same (money) price as the regular ones.
8. He didn't know how much savage orcs would cost (still talking about money, not points) but he said they'd be priced to sell in large numbers. The example he gave was Greatswords: you don't have to field any in an Empire army, and if you do you tend to field 10 or 20. So GW don't sell many of them, so they're relatively expensive to make because they need to recoup the cost of the mould. Empire State Troops sell by the bucketload, so they cost less for 10. He reckons savage orcs will be the same price as State Troops.
9. By being careful (i.e. using one as a shaman mount), it's possible to field 3 aranarok spiders in one army (??? weird. I guess they must be a lot of points?)
10. The pre-orders will be up next week.

Very disappointed that GW are dropping the number of boys in a box. Plain and simple gouging.

Da Boss wrote:Very disappointed that GW are dropping the number of boys in a box. Plain and simple gouging.

''

And easy to avoid. Just go buy a couple of the current box.

Too bad that the common gobbo boxs are not getting redone. Seems like that would be more critical than a plastic box for savage orcs.

Kroothawk wrote:A new batch of rumours posted by Darnok over at Warseer:

Once more, thanks again Kroothawk.

1. The Araknarok can carry a rock lobber, a shaman or an icon that makes all friendly orc and goblin units and characters within 12 inches Stubborn

Shaman or Rock Lobber will be best, really, unless Orcs & Goblins are suffering major changes. Goblins already should be stubborn versus pretty much anything but Skaven Slaves / Gnoblars, and Orcs tend to be fielded (if desiring stubborn) in large enough bricks to maintain likewise.

Unless the new army books are all going to push for armies to take bricks 30+ big.

2. It's the biggest FB monster kit they've ever made. It's bigger than the Stegadon or the Screaming Bell

Wait to see the final model before I judge, yay or nay. Hoping it'll be under $60 USD, though: Right now one of them is an optional unit, and given the choice between another regiment or an optional monster I usually take the former.

3. There's an option with the Savage Orcs to carry a stone axe so big that it takes two models to do so: that's why someone mentioned there are 11 Savage Orcs in the box...sort of. It's another figure that's specifically to help with the big axe.

Fantasy Tankhammer? Imagine it's something that either gets bonus dice to the roll to wound, or does D3 / D6 wounds per hit.

4. The battalion box wasn't mentioned in the meeting he went to: he said he thinks it might come in a sort of "third wave" of releases, a couple of months after the others.

Ouch. Battalion boxes (unless I'm mistaking them with another category) are usually out with the first wave. Going to guess this means the Battalion will include a lot of new models.

6. Boys box sets are going down to 15 models, for roughly the same price.

Somewhat upset, but the loss is minimized somewhat by being -4 of 19 instead of something like -10 of 20. Still a shame, though, especially if they're keeping the same models (especially since this means re-packaging boxes, to my understanding, possibly dropping two of the regular sprues for two extra command or some-such).

7. Savage orc boar boys will be the same (money) price as the regular ones.

Woo, no Orcish Blood Knights!

8. He didn't know how much savage orcs would cost (still talking about money, not points) but he said they'd be priced to sell in large numbers.

GW's under the idea that Guardsmen are priced to sell in large numbers. At 11 SOrcs, I'm predicting a solid $25. Could be like state troops, as he mentioned, but I'm doubting it somewhat.

9. By being careful (i.e. using one as a shaman mount), it's possible to field 3 aranarok spiders in one army (??? weird. I guess they must be a lot of points?)

Depends on how many points. If they're speaking for a 2K point army, that means the spider's probably about 200-250 points (or around Giant and Hydra point ranges). This would make sense with a bunch of somewhat average (Monster) stats, with most of the high ones being 7's.

You see, quite aside from all other rumours, I'm dead interested in one thing....

A non-college lore Lore Attribute.

Positively salivating at that.

No. Really. I genuinely am!

Da Boss wrote:Very disappointed that GW are dropping the number of boys in a box. Plain and simple gouging.

It would be nice if, like the 40k Orks, they got recut to have more options, but I don't see that happening given the plastic quota is already full for this wave.

2x Spiderocks and 1X Spidershaman only if model is decent... I hope it has the rock lobber and shaman as part of the kit.

I hope the spider will be amazing, if it is good I might pre-order one (They do go on pre-order on Wednesday right?)

Looking at the GW main page, it definitely looks like they're getting ready to put the Orcs & Goblins on preorder

Orcs & Goblins are already taking over the GW website. I'd definitely check the Advance Orders on Wednesday to see what's coming.

Sweet da return of da Black Gobbo! Looks like spider web he's got wrapped around the GW logo. Maybe he will get a book entry, it would make my day.

Haha yes indeed, looks like he is trying to steal the logo..

Has everyone seen the new sneaky grots in the 40K section? The site is popping with gobos, but they don't have anything up yet, besides some new grots.

The Good Green wrote:Has everyone seen the new sneaky grots in the 40K section? The site is popping with gobos, but they don't have anything up yet, besides some new grots.

Those grots aren't new. They've been there since before Christmas.

so.. a hardback book that is 120 pages? for 50$? Seems justified.. not

The SM book is over 140 pages

no way!... wow, I just stand quietly in the corner then.

Flashman wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:sooooo.... a new format for army books? sounds cool.

Cooler than a big arse spider?

Hell no!

If this spider is as big as people claim then true line of sight will be fun. Being able to spit on the roof of a building means you cant use it to block line of sight. I notice with Skaven that huge models are the new black and I think that this is why true line of sight was introduced in eighth edition.

I have been into GW today and been informed that the Orc and Goblin pics will be out tomorrow or Thursday and a black box should hit stores this coming saturday.

stonerain wrote:I have been into GW today and been informed that the Orc and Goblin pics will be out tomorrow or Thursday and a black box should hit stores this coming saturday.

Black Box in some US independents on Wed-Fri, depending on how fast the mail is that week. I so want it tomorrow. I'll take the day off, and crawl into my favorite chair with a 6 pack and some munchies for several hours of orcy goodness.

mikhaila wrote:

stonerain wrote:I have been into GW today and been informed that the Orc and Goblin pics will be out tomorrow or Thursday and a black box should hit stores this coming saturday.

Black Box in some US independents on Wed-Fri, depending on how fast the mail is that week. I so want it tomorrow. I'll take the day off, and crawl into my favorite chair with a 6 pack and some munchies for several hours of orcy goodness.

First you log in on dakka and then upload a picture of the new spider

Failing that you can get me a Extreme Mauler from PP exclusives?... I know I know shameless off topic and leeching But Ill just ask away again ... can you get one of those exclusives?

Any chance black box will have giant freaking spider?

You know, I think this is the first there have actually been no picture leaks whatsoever before the advance order goes up

Nah, thinking about it, I think they managed it with DE and Space Hulk.

Flashman wrote:You know, I think this is the first there have actually been no picture leaks whatsoever before the advance order goes up

Nah, thinking about it, I think they managed it with DE and Space Hulk.

Dark Eldar had things like Incubi leaked shortly beforehand.

What's a black box?

The "black box" is just that, however the contents of the box are the models that are to be released so that GW staff can have a look and feel and then get them built and painted and on display, i am heading to my local store on Thursday to force the guy there to give me more details..........just off to get the torture gear from the atic

I will try for some pics, just hope I don't forget in my excitement

Advance orders are now up!

gee wizz


Automatically Appended Next Post:
im loving the giant spider and shaman models, however i do think theres something a little wierd about the boarboyz... a little scrawny or just unbalanced.. thoughts?







and surely the regiment should contain more than ten boyz

$38 for a full-color hardback...doesn't sound that bad, really. I really thought they would have charged upwards of $50 for something like that.

Of course it'll be $50 in another year or two anyway, when they raise prices across the board about 2-3 more times, but right now it's not as bad as I was expecting.

$38 is still steep for my blood. Much better than $50 or more USD, but I'm still not looking forward to the prospect of $150 USD each new edition just for the Rulebook and two Army Books.

My fears on the SOrcs are removed, mind. But Wurzagg... what did they do to you Wurzagg? :(

$38 is more than the Main Rulebooks for:
Kings of War, Warmachine, Malifaux, Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars, and Uncharted Seas.

The Forces of Warmachine softcovers are RRP of $35.
And are a luxury purchase. You do not need them to play.

You NEED the Orc Army Book to play.
So minimum buy in, just for rules, for an Orc and Goblin player is $113. With tax you are at $125 in my state.

This is what a Redshirt at the local GW has to convince a new player to spend, before they even pick up models.
I do not forsee GW improving their financial outlook, even with the new Hobbit license.

Not liking the savage boyz (assuming that's what they are...) six packs on orcs = do not want.

The giant spider is six kinds of awesome, though!

I was wondering, as I have never seen Squiggoth or Gargantuan Squiggoth in real life. How does the giant spider thing compare in size to them?

skrulnik wrote:
You NEED the Orc Army Book to play.
So minimum buy in, just for rules, for an Orc and Goblin player is $113. With tax you are at $125 in my state.

This is what a Redshirt at the local GW has to convince a new player to spend, before they even pick up models.
I do not forsee GW improving their financial outlook, even with the new Hobbit license.

GW also makes a fair amount of money from people who only buy an army book and share a main rule book with their friends/parents/relatives who play, and also from people who only paint and don't actually play.

I see your point, but let's not forget that not everyone has a full set of books anyway, even if they have been playing for a while.

So, not to be lazy if this has cropped up yet or not, but any rumors on the chances of an all-Boar army in the book?

em_en_oh_pee wrote:So, not to be lazy if this has cropped up yet or not, but any rumors on the chances of an all-Boar army in the book?

Sure, but only if you take Boary McBoarRider as a Special Character first.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

em_en_oh_pee wrote:So, not to be lazy if this has cropped up yet or not, but any rumors on the chances of an all-Boar army in the book?

Sure, but only if you take Boary McBoarRider as a Special Character first.

Man, the Character name quality in this book suddenly seems lacking.

Sorry if this is duplicate information posted elsewhere in the previous 6 pages:




Aranchnarok - 290 points before you add anything.

M7 WS4 BS- S5 T6 W8 I? A8 Ld10 4+ armour
Poisoned Attacks.
Every assault phase nominate one of his attacks and it will deal multiple wounds (d6).

Spider Web Lobba. Small template. S1, S3 under the hole multiple wound (d3). If the unit is hit by this template at all gains the Always Strikes Last rule until the Aranchnarok's next turn.

Or, place a Goblin Shaman on top gains the Loremaster ability (knows all Spells from the Lore known regardless of wizard level). And all channelling attemple are made at +2.



Again, sorry if this is already well known. I don't know much about Fantasy to be honest.

With the size of it, and no ward save, I don't see it lasting long to cannon fire even with 8 wounds. Saving grace is that it's fast I suppose.

Yes, let's see how many warp lightning bolts that thing can take

Looking forward to an HPA vs Arachnarok smackdown too. Is it me, or is Warhammer turning into a episode of Godzilla these days.

Looking at the Savage Orc Boar Boyz, I've realised why they are a misfire for me. The original Boar Boyz are leant foward, clutching onto the mane for balance. These new ones just look like they're going to fall off.

skrulnik wrote:$38 is more than the Main Rulebooks for:
Kings of War, Warmachine, Malifaux, Firestorm Armada, Dystopian Wars, and Uncharted Seas.

The Forces of Warmachine softcovers are RRP of $35.
And are a luxury purchase. You do not need them to play.

You NEED the Orc Army Book to play.
So minimum buy in, just for rules, for an Orc and Goblin player is $113. With tax you are at $125 in my state.

This is what a Redshirt at the local GW has to convince a new player to spend, before they even pick up models.
I do not forsee GW improving their financial outlook, even with the new Hobbit license.

And we all know how smart those red shirt fellas are... the best way to "get in the game" is to find someone who's selling a mini rule book, usually bitz sellers have them for around 20-30 bucks, then get your Army book, and a batallion of the army you want to play. If it's one of the two armies in the blood island set you're in luck; just get that. That's still more than PP et al. but those games are also somewhat different games schematically...

So I wonder if they can actually make Boar Boyz useful under the current system. At I2 they are going to strike last except against a few enemies and being "heavy" cavalry will probably not be affordable enough to make mass units although they will certainly be cheaper then they are currently. With a miserable 3+ save and the preponderance of strength 4 and armor piercing attacks they are not going to survive many attacks before doing a few wounds and breaking. Of course the days of super cavalry busting through units is mostly gone but I just can't see the role for these guys unless their rules have been massively changed or there are spells that really augment them in very specific ways. It just seems odd that they would make lots of new models for them and leave them so worthless so we'll see if that is the case or not.

Also as has been said the spider is worthless in the current environment especially with it's AWESOME HUGE BASE!!!! Sticking a shaman on ton is practically a first turn death sentence. I'm hoping the first thing this book does is increase "guess range" war-machine price by 300% or something in order to significantly discourage their use and continue that trend to newer books.

Info from the GW blog about Night Goblins:

"only cost three points and they come with a spear and a shield"

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15300001a

Slinky wrote:Info from the GW blog about Night Goblins:

"only cost three points and they come with a spear and a shield"

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=15300001a

So, how many Night Goblin users are going to be tearing apart their hand weapon-armed unit conversions if this is the default equipment?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Aranchnarok - 290 points before you add anything.

M7 WS4 BS- S5 T6 W8 I? A8 Ld10 4+ armour
Poisoned Attacks.
Every assault phase nominate one of his attacks and it will deal multiple wounds (d6).

Spider Web Lobba. Small template. S1, S3 under the hole multiple wound (d3). If the unit is hit by this template at all gains the Always Strikes Last rule until the Aranchnarok's next turn.

Or, place a Goblin Shaman on top gains the Loremaster ability (knows all Spells from the Lore known regardless of wizard level). And all channelling attemple are made at +2.

The rules sound good! For 290 points, I think that's quite a good deal... 8 wounds is kind of unprecedented for something like this. Doesn't mean it will be the best choice, as all big monsters are susceptible to shooting now, but it's a great deal compared to many other monsters out there, with the abilities it brings. Lovin' the Always Strike Last effect of the web lobba!

Flashman wrote:Looking at the Savage Orc Boar Boyz, I've realised why they are a misfire for me. The original Boar Boyz are leant foward, clutching onto the mane for balance. These new ones just look like they're going to fall off.

Completely agree... they're holding themselves on by their heels while sitting/standing straight up on top of it. It would only work if the boar was standing still...

It seems to me that whoever has been sculpting the mounted models lately has never ridden, nor seen ridden, any sort of animal. The mounted demonettes were terrible, and now these boar boys. WTH GW? No one does dressage in the UK anymore?

Some info from the new codex:


1) Animosity which is the biggest change works differently and this is how… first you roll a dice for each of your units that are eligible (which hasn’t changed except for units that are 5 or less not less than 5 which is great for units of wolf riders and things) for each unit that rolls a 1 you then roll another dice on the animosity chart which is sort of the same. the first result on the chart is the bad one which isnt that bad as it only affects 1 unit within 12 inches and even then each unit only takes D6 strength 3 hits which effects friends and foes… 2-5 is the same so nothing happens and 6 is the same but if you cant see anyone then you pivot on the spot soooooooooo yeah in my mind they have almost taken animosity out of the game as you have to roll a 1 followed by a 1 to do anything bad and even then only to a unit within 12 inches.

2) The choppa rule now benefits all close combet weapons so a black orc with a great weapon is strength 6 but in the first round of combat is now strength 7, orcs with spears are now strength 4 in the first round etc……

3) Trolls are now special and are dirt cheap (think ogre bull cheap exactly ogre bul cheap wink wink) river trolls and stone trolls are still a rare choice and have their own entries and again are cheaper to the point where im going to buy 6 river trolls now.

4) One of the best changes is that boar boys are now 16 points a model and the big’un upgrade is only 4 points a model which is still cheap so again exspect to see them in peoples armies again, and on that note orc boys big’un upgrade is only 2 pints a model 2 POINTS A MODEL but you still can only have one unit in your army. Thats one unit of big’uns in your army full stop. Black orcs are now immune to psychology and are 12 points a model 13 with a shield so we have esscentially got a shield for free now.

5) For those of you wanting the giant to change you will be dissipointed the giant has not changed in stats but i still love it.

6) And finally because i dont want to give to much away magic items well there are alot… oh yes theres lots to choose from being there are 8 MAGIC ITEMS IN THE BOOK… please take a minute to recover yes there are only 8 MAGIC ITEMS IN THE ENTIRE BOOK (not including special characters who have their own unique items) and the 8 that are there are crap I can tell you that the cheapest is 50 points and its not worth 5 soooooooooooooooooo aprt from in my mind no useful magic items to speak of orcs and goblins players are now stuck to the common items in the book. And the magic items do not include guzzla battle brew, wollopa’s on hit wonda or morks spirit totem which isnt a surprise.

So there you are those a just a small amount of things that have changed in the new book but until the release date on march 5th you’ll just have to wait for more, overall gamesworkshop have made a fantastic book which is still fun to play which is why i started an orcs nad goblins army the only bad thing is the magic items but we still have all the common items in the bokk which is more than my goblin shamen can handle.

Ugh. 2 pt Biggun upgrades? That's freakin grand. Already having a hard enough time stopping Biggun Hordes.... Now that they're cheaper, more effective, and are flanked by more crap? Yeehaw. Poor, sad dwarves.

And I hope you're dead wrong about the near total removal of animosity from the book. Wholly crap.

There better be one hell of a miscast chart/nerfing to the WAAAGH! spell and ability to justify this, 7e orcs are already freakishly strong in 8e.

No more magic items!?!?!?!?!?!

No good!

I've heard these titbits from friends who've read the book. Sorry if they've already been posted.

Black orcs are now a point cheaper.
Boar boyz are now 16pts, with spear and shield upgrades costing 2pts each.
On the magic items side, I know 3 of them.
One magic weapon, costing 100pts makes you roll a dice at the start of each CC step. The wielder gains that much S and A, but loses 1/2 the roll in WS untill the end of the phase.
One magic armour is heavy armour, granting +d3 toughnss each turn.
One magic banner gives +d6 magic resistance, and makes any magic items wielded by anyone in base contact with the carrier stop working.
Grimgor Ironhide and his Immortalz are pretty much the same, only the Immortalz gain +1WS as long as Grimgor is alive.

Also the spell 'WAAAGH' is gone, 'Brainbursta' now has the effect of 'Eadbutt', and 'Eadbutt' does something new. 'Bash 'em ladz' is still in there in one form or another.

A mass reduction in magic items would stop put a stop to broken power combos, but aside from that, it sucks a lot of character out of the individual armies.

Mekboy wrote:Also the spell 'WAAAGH' is gone, 'Brainbursta' now has the effect of 'Eadbutt', and 'Eadbutt' does something new. 'Bash 'em ladz' is still in there in one form or another.

Holy.
Friggin.
Crap.


That's.... huge.

Is the Staff of Sneaky Stealin or the Spirit totem still in?

I am looking forward to running an all spider army. The aracknarok with a Great Shaman stacked for magic is close to 600 points, but very worth it. Add in a BSB on a Spider Mount and a second Shaman on a Spider mount and you have a solid base for characters. You can then stack your core with Spider Calvery and use the small Spiders on the Aracknarok spure for the snotlings. Back it up with a second Aracknarok for a rare and then some Warmachines for support. The only issue you would have is Leadership. But that is always an issue with all goblins.

Nagashek wrote:

Mekboy wrote:Also the spell 'WAAAGH' is gone, 'Brainbursta' now has the effect of 'Eadbutt', and 'Eadbutt' does something new. 'Bash 'em ladz' is still in there in one form or another.

Holy.
Friggin.
Crap.


That's.... huge.

Is the Staff of Sneaky Stealin or the Spirit totem still in?

I'm pretty sure that Mork's Spirit totem now gives the unit +d6 MR and negates the magic items of anyone is base contact with the carrier.

Wow. Omeganerf. Fat roommate's gonna cry.

Yeah after reading the book you may as well skip the magic item section.. Theyre all total garbage for their points..

Long live common magic items!

Kirasu wrote:Yeah after reading the book you may as well skip the magic item section.. Theyre all total garbage for their points..

Long live common magic items!

Actually, the Arcane Warpaint can be worth it, so long as you consider it a "Unit Upgrade" for the Shaman instead of a "Shaman Upgrade". Again, while for the Shaman itself Armor of Destiny (sans the armor part) for a Talisman of Endurance is too expensive, but when you factor in a unit of, say, 30 Savage Orc Boyz that item now becomes a little less than a 1.5pt / model upgrade for +1 to your Ward.

Otherwise though, barring the Anti-Dwarf one when actually fighting Dwarves (in which case 50pts for +2A, +2S, Armor Piercing, and a further +1S when in the first round of a combat), most of the items are overpriced, and the Dwarf one is more appropriate for what it should cost (See: It's not overpriced or underpriced...) but only when fighting Dwarves).

The Terror + Soul Snuff item costs too much for something that, versus anything other than Ogres and Undead, will probably have minimal impact (unless you're taking it purely for the one-in-a-million shot). The D6 item doesn't make up its point value until it reaches a point that it also pretty much cancels out your ability to hit (A Common Orc Warboss with it potentially striking at WS3). The Magic Resistance D6 and neutralizing magic items banner isn't that effective, considering that you can get a MR(3) for a little less than half its cost (Which, for Savage Orcs as an example, would only be one point away from the same effect sans item negation). Spider Banner is 170% what it was last edition, same effect too. Bad Moon Banner's stubborn is a moot point since you're rarely fielding small Gobbo units, so all you really get is the Soft Cover + Dangerous Terrain (which is sorta nice, but the full hero magic point limit on giving Gobbos a shooting durability bonus isn't that great). When you consider that you can buy 16 Night Goblins for the cost of the Magic Banner, and those 16 Night Goblins will probably be more than you will lose without the Soft Cover bonus...