Ok, so it will be out come febuary. I am wracking my head trying to fit this into a list. I just might actually use Seth, a Sang priest and an assault or stern vet squad. Though looking for synergy, I am having a hard time fitting it in. Currently I run 4x razorbacks, 3x Baals, 3x vindis, Seth and two sang priests. Looking at the SR rules, it doesn't seem to mesh well. Guys have any advice or tactica on running these birds?

i think it should be used as a mobile Landraider. you drop off an assault squad with sanguinary priest and a Dreadnought into the middle of the enemy lines. the Stormraven then acts as a gunplatform using it's PotMS to split its gun fire to the appropriate targets.


for my GKs, i plan on delivering a squad of PAGKs on target backed up by a Dreadnought. yes, GKs will be getting the Stormraven with the new Codex in Jan/Feb. they introduced it in codex BA for an official release with codex GKs. both BA and GK players will be buying it so GW can maximize profits.

Yah sure it may be good as a fast Land Raider (like BA need that) but why did it need to look like it belongs to a five year old!!??

But yah it seems very useful, may need to make a custom one though.

I think the problem here is that you are obligated to put all your eggs in one basket.

A Storm Raven with Assault Squad and Priest is about 500 points with a Powerfist and special weapons in the squad.

Armor 12 isn't that hard to get penetration against, and then all your eggs break...

But I like the model. I will probably try 5 man jump pack squads who can help with the vehicle crunching and kill squishy passengers like IG and eldar, instead of having an overwhelming assault unit on board.

The Stormraven Sucks. Its way too many points for AV 12.

It should have at least AV 13 or some kind of Venerable Rule like the Dreadnoughts.

But as it is it just can't hold out.

When a Missile Launcher Penetrates your 200+ point vehicle on a 5+ you know its not worth it...

jspyd3rx wrote:Ok, so it will be out come febuary. I am wracking my head trying to fit this into a list.

well... if you're trying to figure out how to use it.... doesnt that suggest something about the usefulness of the unit? I mean nobody has to wrack their brains to figure out the best use for a vindicator or assault terminators.... right?

Well it...
*is covered with guns,
*is an assault vehicle,
*has PotMS,
*can deep strike,
*negates melta bonus,
*is a fast skimmer=24" move,
*carries 12 passengers

Seems like the best way to use it is to have 3
I think there has got to be some reason to use it, maybe cause you can make a special sound when you move it?

all true... but its also 200+ points for an av 12 vehicle that suffers from land raider syndrome. I just think that if it was a really great unit its use would be kind of.... obvious. OP seemed puzzled why he should include it in his army. maybe he shouldnt. not every unit is worth while.

Most units in the game have similar issues though. Not every list can use a Land Raider, not every Tyranid list needs a Hive Tyrant, not ever Guard List needs Vendettas.

I think to properly use this vehicle you need to understand it's fragility and make sure to have enough of another threat on the board that your opponent is tempted to split fire away from it. Take advantage of that Turboboost save for a turn.

Think about taking Corbulo so you can reroll a failed cover save.

Does it have some official stats already?

mindfield wrote:Does it have some official stats already?

uuuum

it's in Codex: marines AKA Blood Angels

I like it as a shooting platform maybe a shooting platform as a 2 or 3 of

mindfield wrote:Does it have some official stats already?

Hi, welcome back from your vacation under a rock for the last year.

----

The new model is ugly as sin.

Someone pointed out in another thread that moving 6" results in being able to shoot everything...

So here's my 4 blood missiles for your vehicle squadron, and I'll use my TL Las to shoot at a separate target with PotMS.

Two of these is just plain evil if you look at it that way...

If you add some other elements like Devastators with Missile Launchers and discounted assault squad razorbacks w/TL Las you're getting into some pretty vicious first turn shooting. Especially for an army that can bring the assault pain turn two.

I think I got a good list with it. Will post tonight after work.

ARRRRGHHHHH!!!! The Suspense!!

Well here's mine

HQ:
Librarian - Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage (In Raven)

Elites:
Furioso - Heavy Flamer Upgrade (In Raven)
Furioso - Heavy Flamer Upgrade (In Raven)
2 Sanguinary Priests (In Raven)

Troops:
10 Assault Marines - 2 Flamers, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon (In Raven)
10 Assault Marines - 2 Flamers, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon (In Raven)
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist, Has Jump Packs

Fast Attack:
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon
Baal Predator - TL Assault Cannon
Baal Predator - Flamestorm Cannon, Dozer Blade

heavy Support:
Storm Raven - TL Multi Melta, TL Plasma Cannons, Extra Armor
Storm Raven - TL Multi Melta, TL Plasma Cannons, Extra Armor

Plasma Cannons might go out for TL Lascannons. Not sure yet. It's gonna be turboboosting first turn and unloading second turn against shooty armies, so I'd almost prefer it to have some decent anti-infantry.

Also this list is 1925. So I can either add a Scout Sniper Squad to hold objectives or a Jump Priest for the one jumping squad of Assault Marines.

I wonder if Stormravens will be DT for GKs.

would be an interesting counterpart to the Valkierie.

The Stormraven is just junk. Sure it can be 'used' if someone is holding a gun to your head but it's not as competitive as pretty much any of the HS choices available to BA. For 200 points it doesn't shoot as hard as a 140 point Vendetta and doesn't have any more armour. It would need some special rules ala the DE flicker field or the Ravager's shooting rules. It would also need extra armour as standard for that points cost (Even Vendettas have extra armour as default) and a higher armour value.

It simply tries to do too many things and fails in all of them simultaneously. Insult to injury, the BA don't really need the Stormraven for anything. They have better choices for firepower and better choices for delivering their troops into assault. It's worse than a Land Raider, and people don't even use Land Raiders.

Thanks for the codex info, I dont have BA codex with me.

well, it is immune to melta, has PotMS, and it should be able to purchase EA.

an AV12 skimmer that can carry 10 marines and a Dreadnought that are able to assault out of it is pretty nice for the points. as a bonus it comes with a TL-MM and some other weapons.

Grey Templar wrote:well, it is immune to melta, has PotMS, and it should be able to purchase EA.

Since when is it immune to melta? The last time I checked meltas were S8 AP1 and the Stormraven was an AV12 skimmer. Meltas blow it right out of the sky. Purchasing EA just makes an overpriced vehicle even more overpriced.

If people could drop the ceramite plating, power of the machine spirit and all of the 4 bloodstrike missiles and get a 60 point discount and extra armour the Stormraven would be a lot better. It would then be a 140 point transport that doesn't get stunned and comes with an assault ramp and two TL heavy weapons. Like I said, in its current form it tries to do too many things and doesn't do any of them particularly well.

Hmmmmmmm

Storm Raven Tactica.

Not really that hard, give it the Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, stick a Death Company Squad inside it with 3 power weapons, a Chaplain, 2 power fists, and a Death Company Dreadnaught in the back.

Move 24" forward the first turn and fire the Multi-Melta with PotMS.

Next turn drop everything off and rule the world.

Played proxy, fielded it with DC and DC DN... Fast assault vehicle with loads of weapons... Move it up, assault 2 things and keep going until you're dead or they are :-)

grayspark wrote:Hmmmmmmm

Storm Raven Tactica.

Not really that hard, give it the Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, stick a Death Company Squad inside it with 3 power weapons, a Chaplain, 2 power fists, and a Death Company Dreadnaught in the back.

Move 24" forward the first turn and fire the Multi-Melta with PotMS.

Next turn drop everything off and rule the world.

Alternatively, your opponent gets first turn or seizes initiative. Half your army is now dead or stranded too far to do any good. Forfeit game and look for another opponent.

We can think outside the box though!. Remember back then when people are like "lawl BA have flying land raiders" ?
we can use the storm raven as Land Raiders , now they are made to look some what flyable!

I've got half a mind to buy 3 of them.

I've got plenty of Drop Pods, I think they might be just the thing to give an All Deep Strike army that little extra somethin' somethin'.

people scoffed at the Valkierie when it was released as a codex model for the same reasons they don't like the Stormravens.


now Aircav Vets are viewed as quite competitive. the Stormraven is quite similer, but with Marines.

You're off your gourd if you think aircav vets are competitive. They had their brief moment in the sun when you could stack astropaths, and even then it was an army dependent on getting the first turn and a bunch of good rolls during the first shooting phase.

Anyway, I'll need to see more angles of the model to really judge. I think if the engines and wings are moved forward to be over the side-hatch, it will look more self-contained. I don't mind the boxy approach (this is the imperium), it's just the joints between the wings and craft itself seem very precarious.

I've taken the effort to Convert one and the loadout I've been using is: TL MM, TL LC, and Extra Armor.

I usually Stuff a Recclusiarch 9 death Company (1 TH) and a Libby Dread inside. So Far it has been doing pretty decent for me. It delivered in all 3 games I played today. and it survived all 3. I need to get on making a DC Dread to test that combo out though.

Also note its Not Immune to Melta weaponry, its just that those weapons don't get their bonus against it. Its still just Corrugated Cardboard Armor.

Cheers,
~Volkan


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. The GW Flying Garbage Truck makes me glad I converted one. Otherwise I'd be compelled to model up a Sanitation Squad to ride around with it. Possibly a Street Sweeper Dread too.

i think the storm raven is going to be great. being competetive with a razorback spam list is only fun for a while, getting good with a cool air cav list is fun in a different way just like my 15 thunderwolf cav list makes for yet another fun learning curve.
for me 3 ravens packed with dreads and assault troops is awesome. you can fire off 12 missiles and 3 twin las and 3 typhoon missile systems turn one at 6 different targets. thats going to do some damage especially to razorback spam. then you move in fast and assault 3 dreads and 36 men direct into the enemy lines while still firing 3 twin las at another 3 targets or 3 hurricane bolter sponsons into the infantry.
thats a whole lot of fire power. it is all the eggs in 3 baskets but its seriously fun.
lets be honest fun lists remain fun for longer than dull competetive lists.

The stormraven is a big thread carrying lots of firepower and troops = bullet magnet. Bullet magnet with AV12, high visability and no cover saves = destroyed on the turn it enters the game.

how do you justify "no cover saves"
its a skimmer so stays on the ground when finished its movement. so start behind an object, then when its your turn move out of cover and fire everything. or start in reserve and when you come on fire everything. the amount of fire power it punches will do some damage. valks/vendettas are no stronger and they survive well enough. i have played games with vendettas standing in for stormravens and it works well, not always but alot.

Plus, if you're using it purely as a assault delivery system you'll have a turboboost save for a turn, right?

I think it would be worth it to model the thing not on a Valk stand though. I hope they don't force us to stick it way up in the air where you need skyscrapers to give it cover. >.<

if you follow skimmer rules you dont need to worry about scenery size as it finishes its turn on the ground, so any scenary that grants a save to a tank should give cover (ish)
great point about the turbo boost too.
i personally cant wait to get hold of three of them. ill be there on release day.

Don't compare it to a valk/vendetta. It costs quite a bit more and as a gun boat doesn't have the same consistent firepower. It also doesn't have scouts for useful pregame moves or outflanking. Lastly it can't be squadroned meaning you cant use a few and still have FOC slots left in its secion.
TBH It would be better to compare it to the Land Raider IMO. Both are assault transports closer in price and carry the same type of infantry. There are trade offs with each though.
The Raven can be quite a bit faster than the land raider carry jump infantry holds 12 normal models (as opposed to the 10 of the Phobos) can carry a dread and has good alpha strike potential. Also Flat out plus PotMS with a MM is fun.
The Raider has better armor, is a dedicated transport, can pop smoke for a turn to gain cover no matter if it moved or not. The crusader has a better capacity as well. Also it can be dropped from the sky like a brick to land near you opponents lines however useful (or not) that might be.

Lastly the Land Raider model actually looks decent. The Storm Raven looks pretty bad IMO and for someone who agrees then they might have to convert their own.

Cheers
~Volkan

Volkan wrote:Don't compare it to a valk/vendetta. It costs quite a bit more and as a gun boat doesn't have the same consistent firepower.

It's a fast skimmer with POTMS. It can fire two weapons when moving fast, where are valk cannot.

I think you're mistaken.

I think Stormravens will be able to get cover saves.


Valks/Vendettas got shafted by that massive pole they sit on(it does look really cool ), but it had to do with some stability and the Stormraven appears to be slightly more compact. it should definitly come on a shorter base.

from a tactics point of view which this thread is about.
can you move, run then assault from an assault vehicle?
if so thats a potential 26" assault move for a 12 man squad and a dread.
while still firing a twin las and twin multi melta at 2 targets.
tactically thats awesome if im right

No

if the vehicle moves you can't move, shoot(run if you're fleet) and then assault.

the Vehicle moves 12"(any more and you can't get out), you deploy 2" from assault ramps, may shoot, and finally assault 6"

Dreadnoughts scatter D6" when they get out of a Stormraven IIRC in addition to the above.

20" threat range from infantry in the Raven, dreadnought is +-D6.

fox40 wrote:from a tactics point of view which this thread is about.
can you move, run then assault from an assault vehicle?
if so thats a potential 26" assault move for a 12 man squad and a dread.
while still firing a twin las and twin multi melta at 2 targets.
tactically thats awesome if im right

The Death Company Dread can...Mephiston could if he was riding in it. I can't think of anything else in the codex that has fleet though.

@Monster Rain
I'm not saying that the damage output is bad from the Raven but you pay a a premium for the firepower it has and it can certainly put out a significant salvo but afterward it only has 2 weapons left unless you took hurricane bolters.
The Vend doesn't have the mobility while putting out its full firepower that the raven has but it also doesn't need to get its cargo into assault. The Valk can keep rolling with its primary weapon and 2 rocket pods a turn while going fast or is only moving six can potentially add in 2 more heavy bolters. In the end though I don't think the roles for the vehicles are the same and that was why I didn't think they should be compared.

Cheers,
~Volkan


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also @ Fox40
I assume when you say move you mean move the transport not the squad after you disembark.

after disembark i mean move the squad.
it should be move stormraven 12, disembark troops 2 then run d6 and assault 6 so upto 26" to assault.

where does it say dreads scatter d6????

You definitely cannot run and then assault unless you are a death company dreadnought or Mephiston, as was already stated.

So...
12" move in raven
2" disembark
6" assault move
20" max

Dreads and passengers only scatter if you bail out of the Storm Raven while it is moving flat out. If you do this you cannot assault.

I think unloading all the missiles on a deserving target on a short first turn move is a great option, since we are talking about this thing getting blown up early anyway...

Something I would like to add.

It has potms, so it can turbo boost (get the 4++ save) and still fire a weapon.

AllergicToTyranids wrote:Something I would like to add.

It has potms, so it can turbo boost (get the 4++ save) and still fire a weapon.

Indeed.

That's a pretty nice thing to have.

Are there any rumors about fleet Grey Knights? Cause that would make this awesome as well...

i haven't played with the stormraven but I think it can be a very viable unit. Most people here have shown its pros and cons pretty well.

I think you can't think of it as being in relation to much else, it can't really be compared to a land raider or to a valk since the stormraven has to used in a very particular way. I feel like if you can find a way to keep the stormravens in play, and find some sort of tactic they excel at then they can become really good, it does seem to require the army to focus on the stormravens which does limit your options by a lot.

I feel like they seem to have many of the same general issues as DoA armies have. They are expensive, really limits what the army can field, and really requires a good first turn, or a good drop for stormraven or DoA respectfully.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think it may be more viable in GK def if you can have stormtrooper squads in valks or have valks somewhere else in the list, the use of stormravens with valks would be very cool, almost be like using vanguard vets with DoA assault marines, just a thought!

rdlb wrote:Are there any rumors about fleet Grey Knights? Cause that would make this awesome as well...

No

NFWs will be interesting.

they will be CCWs that, if the squad passes a Psychic Test at the beginning of the CC phase, will be Force Weapons(PW, causes ID)

there will be an option to upgrade NFWs to Force Halbards. Same as above except with +2 Str.

So mr. Therion. So it is AV 12. It is a fast skimmer. So it is expensive. Do you have a better transport up your sleeve for delivering a DC dread into assault turn two? Eh? What's that? Drop pod? Maybe. I don't think so - the enemy has a turn to shoot at it outside of it's transport.

Got to say I'm more of a fan of the cheap land raiders (take a 5 man assault squad remove their jump packs and can take a land raider for 35pts less ... works out 25pts cheaper)

So mr. Therion.

A) Your Dread will never make it since first the Stormraven is shot down and then the Dread is destroyed. If the Dread manages to hide behind some humongous piece of scratch-built wreckage, well congratulations, you might get to assault a moving Chimera or Razorback with it before it's popped.

B) You shouldn't be using Dreadnoughts in the first place, especially the worst kind, the DC Dreadnoughts.

C) If you want to find uses for ineffective units, go right ahead but it won't change the fact they're ineffective. You just might've found a use for them. I have a use for them too. They're nice to look at in the glass cabinet.

Sweet suffering Christ do I hate theory hammer.

The Stormraven is a good unit. Let's stop inventing scenarios where it can't possibly be useful. I particularly enjoy the supposition that BA Dreads with fleet aren't any good, particularly in a flying assault vehicle.

Monster Rain wrote:Sweet suffering Christ do I hate theory hammer.

The Stormraven is a good unit. Let's stop inventing scenarios where it can't possibly be useful. I particularly enjoy the supposition that BA Dreads with fleet aren't any good, particularly in a flying assault vehicle.

I particularly enjoy the possibily of facing a 215 point flying Chimera carrying 140 points of turd. It's a cozy and warm feeling when you realise it's not just yourself who wants to win big, but your opponent wants you to win big also.

Therion wrote:



C) If you want to find uses for ineffective units, go right ahead but it won't change the fact they're ineffective. You just might've found a use for them. I have a use for them too. They're nice to look at in the glass cabinet.

Hohoho.

Yeah, you're right. They suck. They don't work in any of one dude on the internet's invented scenarios so they're completely awful. The fact that he doesn't even know their stats has no bearing on his analysis.

They suck, BA players. Don't use 'em.

Tri wrote:Got to say I'm more of a fan of the cheap land raiders (take a 5 man assault squad remove their jump packs and can take a land raider for 35pts less ... works out 25pts cheaper)

That is a waste in my opinion. You are basically using the landraider with a small troop inside to hold an objective and fire it's weapons. Okay that is not terrible but you aren't making the most out of it's true potential.

I think the Stormraven is in a class all by itself. You can compare it to landraiders and Vendettas but there are lots of differences. Only the Stormraven can carry a dreadnought. It's very good when you can hold it in reserve, move onto the table 6" to alphastrike then next turn deliver an uber assault squad and dreadnaught into melee. You should use the rest of your army to eliminate threats that can shoot it down. It doesn't have smoke launchers but if you are really worried about it then just move it 24" each turn - you can still fire a weapon since it's got PotMS. It's a great transport/mobile weapon platform for the points. And yes it has ceramite plating so meltas only roll 1d6 for armor penetration - 50 percent of the time they will fail to glance/penetrate and that is not taking into account the roll to hit. They are cheaper than a landraider... This might be something that could make Grey Knights a competitive army for once.

I think by saying they suck is really disregarding them, I think they can be viable, it just is a lot harder to do, and prob wont win every game, but would be able to be a pretty well-made army. There may be "better" ways to do the same thing within the BA codex, but the stormraves would play this style in its own way making them an interesting choice for an army. I don't think they can be thrown out so quickly from the codex as just being sucky.

I personally like the Stormraven. It's a niche unit that fills in its niche pretty well. Given the right supporting list, the SR could work quite well. I think the negativity towards the unit can be attributed to the fact that it is a rock paper scissors. Like with all rock, paper scissor units, it’s in the players hands to ensure a scissors unit avoids an opponents rock long enough to achieve its purpose or vice versa.

I personally would like back up Monster Rain by saying theory hammer is not the right way to discuss tactics in the tactics forums as it always assumes a restricted scenario where particular events works out perfectly in favour of a particular player (and in such scenarios, any player can win).
At the end of the day, this is a “Stormraven Tactica” thread where players discuss efficient ways in using the Stormraven and not gripe about any shortcomings the models/rules may have.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:That is a waste in my opinion. You are basically using the landraider with a small troop inside to hold an objective and fire it's weapons. Okay that is not terrible but you aren't making the most out of it's true potential.

I think the Stormraven is in a class all by itself. You can compare it to landraiders and Vendettas but there are lots of differences. Only the Stormraven can carry a dreadnought. It's very good when you can hold it in reserve, move onto the table 6" to alphastrike then next turn deliver an uber assault squad and dreadnaught into melee. You should use the rest of your army to eliminate threats that can shoot it down. It doesn't have smoke launchers but if you are really worried about it then just move it 24" each turn - you can still fire a weapon since it's got PotMS. It's a great transport/mobile weapon platform for the points. And yes it has ceramite plating so meltas only roll 1d6 for armor penetration - 50 percent of the time they will fail to glance/penetrate and that is not taking into account the roll to hit. They are cheaper than a landraider... This might be something that could make Grey Knights a competitive army for once.

Since all of you are dabbling about the same thing, just answer one question: My IG army has 51 heavy weapons and 14 special weapons in 2000 points (17 tanks overall), and the heavy weapons haven't actually been maxed out or anything since theres a PBS in there etc. What kind of odds do you give for your Stormraven to survive a single turn of shooting, considering it doesn't have a cover save and has AV12? When you decide not to alpha strike and move fast instead, you'll get the save, but you'll be wrecked on immobilised results as well. Truth be told it's the same as the IG player assuming he can survive another IG army shooting without losing a single Chimera despite everything being out in the open. It simply won't happen. Any and all of your Stormravens will go down the first shooting phase the enemy gets at them.

What you can then get out of them is reserve them and move 24" to the table and use PotMS to fire the TL MM at something. You'll then be destroyed with 100% certainty but atleast you can hide your Dread and the Marines around the wreckage and if the enemy can't surround and shoot you to death or assault the units inside, you might get to assault something. Sad part is that it's a terrible way to spend 200 or 215 points depending on if you like to buy extra armour for your flying points sink. Additionally, if the target army doesn't have any juicy targets and only consists of moving vehicles, you're in deep and will most likely be wiped out in short order.

What you should be doing on the other hand, is either playing a proper JP DoA list because it wrecks shooty armies from hell much more reliably than any Stormraven junk does, or a BA mech army based on Immolators, Baals and Preds/Devs, lead by your very own Daemon Prince, mr. Mephiston. But of course you can also get desperate and try to find uses for ineffective units that try to be too many things at the same time.

Just a tip, for free this time.

I do think that a fast transport for a jump pack army with all fast vehicles is overkill. But for the Grey Knights, who are chronically short on anti-tank and numbers, the ability to get a squad where you want it safely seems huge. It has access to 2 heavy anti-tank and 4 light anti-tank weapons! Any Gk player would kill for that sort of armor stopping power.

It's all about context- the Vanguard Vets sucked out loud in the SM codex, but are excellent in the BA codex both because of their special rules, and because they have the right supporting units available.

I predict the Storm Pelican will be a must for any assault based GK armies.

I don't know for sure but it sounds like Mr. Therion might be trolling this thread with his flamebaiting remarks. I've had a lot of success with the Stormraven and have won a couple RTTs using armies that feature them. They might not make it through to the end of the game but if you have a game plan and they make their mark then they've paid for themselves plus some. They really make dreadnaughts worth taking since they can assault from the moving skimmer. Typically it can be hard to get a dreadnaught into melee. The Bloodstrike missiles are awesome for the alphastrike - S8 AP1 60" - typically they'll avoid cover when shooting since they are mounted on a flight stand above intervening terrain. And so what if it does get shot down? I see landraiders getting blasted apart all the time.

:-) Interesting, I've had my DC Dreads wipe entire squads assaulting out of a Raven pretty regularly... Maybe we play with a LOT of big terrain like buildings that I can hide it behind making it more effective than someone playing in "desert" terrain (none really)

@ Mr. Therion

I don't play every game against IG leafblower lists. Basically what you are saying is that if a unit does not perform well versus one type of counter then it's not viable in a competitive game. Like I said I dont play every game versus IG so for me that is not a sound argument on your part. What I can tell you is that I have played quite a few games versus IG and have won most of them with maybe one loss and one draw. Since you are tailoring your comments around a specific type of army (you sighted all your weapons, etc.) I can just as well design a DoA list that can beat your IG army. I'm not worried about stuff like your Psychic Choir as I can field an army that is 100 percent fearless. Lots of jump infantry units deepstriking with lots of meltas blows big holes into IG tanks. You've got Sanguinary Guard with their artificer armor and a Priest in tow for the FNP - they shrug off hellhounds and LRBTs. So you've got an Executioner all pimped out with plasma - Dante is going to deepstrike right beside it and blow it off the table with his melta pistol - he will be bringing some good friends along for the ride. I've got VV assaulting your tanks or bubble wrap platoons with meltabombs, thunderhammers and stormshields - they'll have a couple of melta pistols as well so they can destroy more of your tanks over the course of the game. I'll strategically bring in the Stormravens from reserve so they can alphastrike your tanks with the Bloodstrike missiles. So you shoot it down - big woop - I've got an uber melee jump troop inside that can still reach out and touch you. Sure if it was one skimmer versus an entire IG army we all know who is going to win but that's not the case... You are facing off versus an entire deepstriking army bristling with red hot melta death. IG doesn't scare me one bit. Not at all, in fact I always look forward to playing against IG. Its fun blowing up all those treads.

Therion wrote:

BloodThirSTAR wrote:That is a waste in my opinion. You are basically using the landraider with a small troop inside to hold an objective and fire it's weapons. Okay that is not terrible but you aren't making the most out of it's true potential.

I think the Stormraven is in a class all by itself. You can compare it to landraiders and Vendettas but there are lots of differences. Only the Stormraven can carry a dreadnought. It's very good when you can hold it in reserve, move onto the table 6" to alphastrike then next turn deliver an uber assault squad and dreadnaught into melee. You should use the rest of your army to eliminate threats that can shoot it down. It doesn't have smoke launchers but if you are really worried about it then just move it 24" each turn - you can still fire a weapon since it's got PotMS. It's a great transport/mobile weapon platform for the points. And yes it has ceramite plating so meltas only roll 1d6 for armor penetration - 50 percent of the time they will fail to glance/penetrate and that is not taking into account the roll to hit. They are cheaper than a landraider... This might be something that could make Grey Knights a competitive army for once.

Since all of you are dabbling about the same thing, just answer one question: My IG army has 51 heavy weapons and 14 special weapons in 2000 points (17 tanks overall), and the heavy weapons haven't actually been maxed out or anything since theres a PBS in there etc. What kind of odds do you give for your Stormraven to survive a single turn of shooting, considering it doesn't have a cover save and has AV12? When you decide not to alpha strike and move fast instead, you'll get the save, but you'll be wrecked on immobilised results as well. Truth be told it's the same as the IG player assuming he can survive another IG army shooting without losing a single Chimera despite everything being out in the open. It simply won't happen. Any and all of your Stormravens will go down the first shooting phase the enemy gets at them.

What you can then get out of them is reserve them and move 24" to the table and use PotMS to fire the TL MM at something. You'll then be destroyed with 100% certainty but atleast you can hide your Dread and the Marines around the wreckage and if the enemy can't surround and shoot you to death or assault the units inside, you might get to assault something. Sad part is that it's a terrible way to spend 200 or 215 points depending on if you like to buy extra armour for your flying points sink. Additionally, if the target army doesn't have any juicy targets and only consists of moving vehicles, you're in deep and will most likely be wiped out in short order.

What you should be doing on the other hand, is either playing a proper JP DoA list because it wrecks shooty armies from hell much more reliably than any Stormraven junk does, or a BA mech army based on Immolators, Baals and Preds/Devs, lead by your very own Daemon Prince, mr. Mephiston. But of course you can also get desperate and try to find uses for ineffective units that try to be too many things at the same time.

Just a tip, for free this time.

I mean you put them up in a situation where even a razorback spam army would have some troubles...

I don't think you can disregard them so quickly by throwing them in situations made to kill them. I would think more of how they would do against Ork armies, or rhino spam due to their fast movement and ability to knock out a bunch of rhinos a turn, then assault the unit with its dropping troops.

I see how the stormraven has a HUGE weakness, I can see why you could argue, and most likely be right, that the stormraven is not the "perfect" choice for torties but I don't think you can say that it is a useless unit, it has its abilities, and if they are utalized well they can wreck havoc, and there are some armies such as the 10million heavy/special weapon anti-tank expert guardsmen armies, and they will wreck havoc on this army, but it doesn't mean it can't face other armies very well and so giving it some viability.

I think it's hard to say something along the lines of "x unit is terrible because it has trouble against my leafblower guard list" (or "your scissors is not good as it has trouble against my rock") and expect to be taken seriously.

Reason being (in case it isn't already obvious) is that a Leafblower list is a particularly specialised min maxed list that usually requires an equally specialised list (or a terrible opponent) to counter act it.

Yeah, but leafblower sucks against my all Shadowsword army in apocalypse on a table with no terrain.

@Monster Rain
LMAO.

I was thinking that maybe I'll click ignore on Therion and continue thinking about the storm raven... Going first in a dawn of war game would make having three storm ravens filled with killing a serious threat!!

There is a big problem that it is an expensive transport that is carrying an expensive load and will be a huge target. Infantry carrying heavy weapons and tanks with long range guns will give it some trouble. But is is still too cool for school so how can we protect it?

The Storm Raven already has great, great, great Anti-Tank capability, but what about pairing it with some podding suicide squads of meltas. Five sternguard with combimeltas would be a great addition to anti-tank, and could also play an anti-infantry role with the special ammo. But the elite slots fill up too fast when we are bringing in Furiosos.

Honor guards in pods with meltaguns?--under 200 points--will kill a vehicle first turn--must be dealt with or will kill more, and don't fill up force org chart, but must fight temptation to make them super expensive and killy...
Devs with 4 missile launchers?--very versatile, only 130 points
Rifleman Dread?---very versatile, only 120 points, but only Str 7 not good against AV13...
5 man assault squad with discounted Razorback? a TL las cannon that can move 12" and fire, scoring, only 155 points, tried and true cheap unit

All we need is to keep the big guns from firing for a turn, which any glancing hit can do. Any other ideas?

A libby with shield might be a small benefit too?

Here's kind of what I'm talking about...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/328119.page#2121669

@ Theorion

51 heavy weapons certaintly would give Stormravens trouble, but they can work around that. Deep Striking BA are actually the Rock to the IG leafblower Scissors. 51 heavy weapons will give many armies trouble, not just BA with Stormravens.

leafblower is actually a one trick pony. it is quite vulnerable to, Not getting the first turn, Outflankers, and Deepstriking armies(although this is fixable by bubblewrapping) Classic Leafblower will be destroyed by a Space Marine player that outflanks a couple of Scout squads with PFs and reserves everything.

Stormravens, conversely, arn't one trick ponys. they can transport 12 marines AND a dreadnought right into the enemy lines(who can assault from the Raven), it can deepstrike, it has PotMS, and some pretty potent weaponry for it to use with PotMS. For a skimmer it has pretty good armor, 2nd only to Hammerheads and Falcons(of which only 1 is a transport)

Thinking on Therion's valid concerns, but also considering the utility of the Raven, I think it can have its day in a competitive list. However, you have to be cautious with its use.

Taking an army with three loaded Ravens in 2000 points will be fun, but is noncompetitive. You will not live to reach your opponent.

Taking two is more competitive, but a heavily shooty army will focus on the Ravens and take out the point of your spear, causing you to have to play for ties instead of going for the jugular with your Alpha strikes.

However, I think one loaded Raven makes a great addition to any list. It has a small enough point footprint that you can throw in plenty of other supporting units to still win if it gets shot down, you make your opponent question whether he really wants to dedicate himself to killing the Raven, and if it does live, then you can use it as a rapier, finding the opponent's weak point and unloading a melee units onto it and busting nearby vehicles whiel the rest of your army advances unmolested.

The unit I'm currently thinking being effective within a Raven is:
Jump Librarian - Shield of Sanguinius (Cover Save) and Sanguine Sword (Tank Busting on the charge)
Honor Guard - Jump Packs, 4 Flamers, 3 LCs, Power Fist (Incredibly nasty infantry killing unit to support Raven's antitank)
Furioso - Heavy Flamer

The Raven and its contents are very killy, but with no troops and only taking up a little more than a quarter of your army, losing it can still leave you in an average position and still potentially win games. What you gain is a unit with the potential, if the assault units get out, to kill 3 vehicles and slaughter any infantry squad.

I'm not Sure Jump infantry is the way to go with the raven though. Bloody Skies is of very limit use IMO. Also at 6 models that makes for a pretty fragile squad. I think i would rather have more bodies in it. The only time the packs are really advantage in the raven is when you want to get out and move before moving the raven or if the raven can't move.
I also think that if you are fielding a death company squad that a DC dread might be the way to go. Even if you can't get the squad inside into combat on a turn the fleet with the DC dread gets you extra range for that charge. That said I do like the Librarian dread I've been running in it.

Cheers,
~Volkan

What about a defensive list with the Storm Raven in reserve. You can bring it in from your table edge and ruin and enemies within range.

I think you need a chapter banner in there 6 extra re-rollable attacks from a small squad like that is awesome!

I played a stormraven loaded with a dread with blood talons and a 5 man squad with standard and reclusiarch against 7 dark angel termies with HQ dude that counts them as troops. they had assault canon, missile launcher etc fully loaded and i wiped them out in one turn with the stormravens side sponsons and then the assaulting dread and squad. the squad and dread then covered the raven from LOS so it got cover saves but the opponent didnt shoot at it he was more annoyed with the blood talons from the dread and the squad that just killed 500+ points of termies and HQ. the squad then got back in the raven and carried on the mayhem.

its horses for courses and if people want to spend there time only on leafblower and razorback spam (which i play occasionly) then let them. but if you wanna be experimental and refine tactics in more difficult circumstances and also have some fun then give ravens or cavalry a go. finding a way to make a hard list work is more rewarding than using an easy list all the time

fox40 wrote:i think the storm raven is going to be great. being competetive with a razorback spam list is only fun for a while, getting good with a cool air cav list is fun in a different way just like my 15 thunderwolf cav list makes for yet another fun learning curve.
for me 3 ravens packed with dreads and assault troops is awesome. you can fire off 12 missiles and 3 twin las and 3 typhoon missile systems turn one at 6 different targets. thats going to do some damage especially to razorback spam. then you move in fast and assault 3 dreads and 36 men direct into the enemy lines while still firing 3 twin las at another 3 targets or 3 hurricane bolter sponsons into the infantry.
thats a whole lot of fire power. it is all the eggs in 3 baskets but its seriously fun.
lets be honest fun lists remain fun for longer than dull competetive lists.

Sorry nothing to do with the thread or your post but if that Avatar is yours congratulations on a beautiful looking Warhound Titan sir!

Ed_Bodger wrote:

fox40 wrote:i think the storm raven is going to be great. being competetive with a razorback spam list is only fun for a while, getting good with a cool air cav list is fun in a different way just like my 15 thunderwolf cav list makes for yet another fun learning curve.
for me 3 ravens packed with dreads and assault troops is awesome. you can fire off 12 missiles and 3 twin las and 3 typhoon missile systems turn one at 6 different targets. thats going to do some damage especially to razorback spam. then you move in fast and assault 3 dreads and 36 men direct into the enemy lines while still firing 3 twin las at another 3 targets or 3 hurricane bolter sponsons into the infantry.
thats a whole lot of fire power. it is all the eggs in 3 baskets but its seriously fun.
lets be honest fun lists remain fun for longer than dull competetive lists.

Sorry nothing to do with the thread or your post but if that Avatar is yours congratulations on a beautiful looking Warhound Titan sir!

lo. thanks it is. there are some pics in my gallery of it, still needs finishing but im actually rather nervous of painting the interior, its so detailed it scary

I didn't bother to paint the interior of mine outside of the cockpit but then I am more of a player than a painter. I'll check out those pictures

I thank everyone for replying to the IG example with 'the BA wouldn't use Stormravens then, I'd use JP DoA because it wrecks mech olololol' because in case you forgot that was what I said in the very same post. Don't use them. IG is far from a one trick pony when played well though because it can outshoot everything and it doesn't have any high priority targets that disable the rest of the army when destroyed. It's one of the most reliable tournament winner candidates every time around, but it can still be beaten. The point isn't to discuss IG at all but the fact that atleast to me they're a common enough tournament opponent and I would never consider a list that cannot reliably win against leafblowers or SW/BA razorspam lists that don't shoot as hard as the IG but have hardcore counter assault units in addition to the firepower (TWC, TWC lords, Mephiston, etc).

Taking an army with three loaded Ravens in 2000 points will be fun, but is noncompetitive. You will not live to reach your opponent. However, I think one loaded Raven makes a great addition to any list.

You remember I suggested that lone Raven to you in your army list thread. I'm not sure it's a great addition, but it doesn't ruin the list in any way yet and it does something anyway. That's not what most of the people in this thread are discussing however. They are talking about stacking up on Stormravens and filling them with DC and DC Dreadnoughts. Essentially, they're putting 1000 points in two baskets that get blown away in any competitive setting. They're totally on and off and unreliable to the max. Seriously the first rule of death star units in any game should be that they're ridiculously hard to kill. Chibi-hawks with their cardboard walls and balsa wings aren't.

You obviously don't get it and you are wrong. Your type of IG relies solely upon going first to win. Stormravens still work against IG and are a good choice. But hey you believe what you want to believe.

Therion is correct that IG is a common tortie army, but so is mob orks, and a great many other things which i think the stormraven can excell at. I don't see how the stormraven is a lose by turn one against a IG Leafblower list or a SW/BA/SM razorback spam army. I am sure there are ways to make the list be able to work in such a way to combat such an army.

I also agree with Therion that you shouldn't be putting DC and DC dreds in stormravens. If you are going to have an expensive unit in the army, or even have an army based around 2 or 3 expensive units (the stormravens are such a unit!) you can't have the rest of the army be full of more units like that!! Instead I would focus on assault marines without JP, or honor guards with limited upgrades. Stormravens can be useful, but not if they don't have support elements just like almost any unit in the game! I think there can be a way to have 2-3 stormravens in an army and have it be a good list, but i don't think it would work when the rest of your points are going towards expensive units liike DC. the list needs more unist, other targets besides just the stormravens, as well as a backup just in case all three ravens go down (there goes 600 or so points) if the rest of your army, the 1400 (about) points are all thrown into huge point-sucking units such as DC you end up with little you can work with. but if you have a few dreds, some assault squads and some other support elements if the three ravens go down at least you have SOMETHING useful to work with.


i was thinking at one point if it would be worthwile to get two or three ravens, assault squads without Jp, then get reduced point tanks to roam around, holding noone while the assault squads roam around in the stormravens. Not sure if that would help at all, i just thought it was a funny idea, could help if you oppenent had no idea which had units inside of them

my current air cav list is:

stormraven 1:
5 man assault no packs, melta, infernus
furioso dread

stormraven 2:
5man assault with packs, melta, infernus
dante
furioso

stormraven 3:
5 man death company
death dread with talons

rhino:
5 man assault no packs
corbolo

razorback 1 twin las
5 man assault no packs

razorback 2 twin las
no squad


thats 3 fast tanks, 3 ravens, 3 dreads and 5 squads for 2000 points

i think its going tobe a fun list. not as competetive as some but fun

Embarked psykers can use powers correct? (I don't have any in any of my armies.) Libby dread with shield could keep the storm raven alive with some luck.

I like to run one Stormraven with a very hard hitting assault unit onboard plus a Furioso with Blood Talons. It's actually easy to support the Stormraven with the rest of the army. Vanguard veterans with Heroic Intervention is an excellent unit to snipe one threat to the Stormraven such as Long Fangs. You've got the assault squads with three meltas (2x meltagun + infernus pistol) dropping in from reserve popping other threats. The Stormraven itself can alphastrike when it comes in from reserve firing four Bloodstrike missiles and the twin linked lascannon - sometimes you can also split fire with the twin linked multi-melta and wreck two units. Typically with a DoA style list the jump infantry will arrive first on turn 2 and shutdown key enemy units. The Stormraven then comes in on turn 3 or 4 with the opponent's army whittled down enough that there is not enough long ranged shooting to reliably take out the Stormraven. It's all about target selection and systematically shutting down your opponent over the course of the game. Like I said I am always happy to see an IG army across the table at a tournament, barring absolutely abysmal dice I feel that I can win. I have playtested my list many games versus IG so my army is tweaked and has all the tools it's needs to get the job done.

Acardia wrote:Embarked psykers can use powers correct? (I don't have any in any of my armies.) Libby dread with shield could keep the storm raven alive with some luck.

ooooo, nice catch.

still won't help much on first turn, but would allow the stormraven to move slower(shoot more guns) with a save.

Grey Templar wrote:

Acardia wrote:Embarked psykers can use powers correct? (I don't have any in any of my armies.) Libby dread with shield could keep the storm raven alive with some luck.

ooooo, nice catch.

still won't help much on first turn, but would allow the stormraven to move slower(shoot more guns) with a save.

Don't you use the Shield in the enemy's shooting phase?

ask a BA player.

i don't do cheeze

Yes Shield of Sanguinius is used in the enemy shooting phase.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Not entirely sure.

Tested a list out on Vassal using a Storm Raven today against my Roommate using Vulkan Marines. I used the list at the bottom of this topic:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/327638.page#2118432

To keep it short and simple... it was a slaughter. The fast moving and long ranged elements obliterated and stunned his armor, and his rush towards my objective with a Bike squad that would have overwhelmed the defenders in their razorbazk was utterly slaughtered by the Storm Raven coming out of reserve and transported Furioso. Then the Furioso got back in, and the unit proceeded to go murder a Land Speeder Squadron. Then they got back in, and flew over to destroy his assault terminators.

The rest of the list played to the objective, the single quick moving Storm Raven provided help wherever the weak point in my army seemed about to break. DEFINITELY made the army what it was.

Sadly not going to write a battle report but... I was very impressed by its effects during this game.

Heavy Support
Storm Raven
TL Lascannon
TL Multi-melta
Extra Armor

Dreadnought
TL Autocannons x2

Dreadnought
TL Autocannons x2

I think this is a great heavy support selection to start with. I was toying with it in a lot of my lists. I love rifleman dreads, they can stun so many vehicles so they can't shoot, and they can take down serious MCs I almost hate taking the third one out of my list for a Raven



Librarian - Jump Pack - Shield of Sanguinius - Sanguine Sword
Honor Guard - Jump Packs, Chapter Banner, 4 Meltaguns, 3 LCs, Power Fist
Furioso Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer Upgrade

Did you use the shield of Sanguinius at all? Or the Meltas on the Honor Guard? I'm so torn between some LC Termies with a Priest/Death Company/Or the Honor Guard.

Obviously the Chapter Banner is a killer option, but I kind of like the DC option because LeMartes is your Chaplain there and he can't be picked out in CC, plus he is a complete lunatic.
Terminators are good old reliable--can't go wrong with how good and cheap they are...

Sanguinary Priest - Jump Pack
10 Assault Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist
5 Assault marines - Meltagun, Razorback w/Las/TL Plas
5 Assault marines - Meltagun, Razorback w/Las/TL Plas

This is a great way to run troops, which I was also planning in some Raven Lists, Seriously, Pvt. Jet, I think we're on the same page. Pvt. Jet... ... I get it.

Ah someone got the pun? I've used this moniker for a year now and people I've been using it around JUST got it.

Definitely was a fan of the Rifleman Dreads. My Vanilla lists typically pod Dreads out of the sky with the hopes they'll DCCW something a turn later, but I have to say I was very impressed by their firepower (7 Wounds on a Terminator squad? Yes please!) Also, love your Dreadnoughts there. You use the Forgeworld arms or convert your own?

The Honor Guard popped out of the Raven twice in my game. One they took out a squadron of Speeders with their meltaguns (wrecking one and stunning another) before charging with the Sanguine Sword Librarian and utterly devastating the remains, before getting back in next turn. Then they got out later and charged a squad of Assault Terminators who'd managed to catch one of my rifleman Dreads, and proceeded to kill three with their LCs.

Very effective unit, especially with FNP built in to keep them alive. I was tempted to try Terminators, but then you need to buy a Priest to give them FNP, and I was tempted to try DC but you either need to go overboard and buy Jump Packs (SOOO expensive) or leave them slow and vulnerable to rage if the Raven gets shot down. Also, if I find I'm not using the Shield of Sanguinius, I could throw Unleash Rage on the Librarian instead to make them reroll hits as well. However I'm already killing anything on the charge so that may not be entirely necessary...

Yep, the Honor Guard is definitely the most flexible and middle of the road, comes with a priest and can fit a librarian or Reclusiarch.

Termies only get to choose one buddy to come along, not Priest and Reclusiarch, and DC include everything but are so expensive...

I added IG heavy weapon team autocannons to Black Reach Dreads. I had to file little grooves to get them to sit together, but I like the offset AA gun look.

I chuckled at your name as soon as I saw it... classic...

ummm, i don't think BAs can take Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support. they don't have a MOTF do they?

Yeah, BA can get dreads in their elite, troop and heavy slots, the heavies are the ones without any if the scary BA specific larger

so, Normal Dreds are HS, Furioso's are Elites, and DC are Troops?

Si, senor.

The only thing I noticed about the list I ran is... if my opponent really dedicated himself to taking out my Troops choices, they can be a bit fragile. Razorbacks go down leaving vulnerable 5-man squads, and a single bad assault or solid AP3 or better attack can end the jump squad. Do you think that this is a serious problem with this and similar lists with a lot of points tied up in non-troops, or does it come down to play style and properly protecting your troops, in effect, using them as bait?

When I use 10 man jump squads I usually have at least 2 full ones. I think the 5 man Razorback squads are very very fragile, but 10 man with a priest is a rock that can make excellent use of cover with their high mobility. Just avoid the battle cannon shots....

This list is 1700 point so far. Basically I'm missing your Baal Preds, and I have two full jump squads.

I'm trying to figure the last 50 points...
HQ
Librarian
Jump Pack

Honor Guard
Jump Packs
Chapter Banner
Lightning Claw x4
Meltagun x4

Elites
Furioso
Heavy Flamer
Magna Grapple
Blood Talons

Sanguinary Priest
Jump Pack

Troops
Assault Squad (10)
Powerfist
Meltagun x2

Assault Squad (10)
Powerfist
Flamers x2

Fast Attack
Land speeder
Heavy Flamer
Multimelta

Land speeder
Heavy Flamer
Multimelta

Heavy Support
Storm Raven
TL Lascannon
TL Multi-melta
Extra Armor

Dreadnought
TL Autocannons x2

Dreadnought
TL Autocannons x2