33022
Post by: Orki
So it appears that some sad muppet felt like robbing some geniune young talent of the respect it deserves. What follows is a post by the artist who painted the Gold YB mini in this years GDUK -
"This morning I recieved this message from somebody on cool mini -
'Just noticed this mini won a Golden Demon in the UK youngbloods catagory: http://demonwinner.free.fr/uk/2010/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=12....'
This is a miniature I painted a couple years back and sold on ebay http://www.coolminiornot.com/182917"
*Gasp!*
This is a c&p from an email that the original artist recieved from GW hq recently. He has posted it publically himself and so I presume he doesn't the news being shared elsewhere here amoung the Dakka community.
"Hi,
David Heathfield in the 'Eavy Metal team forwarded me your contact details so that I could let you know what we're doing about your Tau Ethereal that someone else entered into – and won Gold with – the Young Bloods category at this year's UK Golden Demon competition. We will shortly be removing the images of the model and the name of the winner from the 2010 UK Golden Demon winners page of the Games Workshop website, as it's now apparent that it wasn't Sean Graham who painted it, it was you.
I understand from the rules to the competition that anyone knowingly entering someone else's work as their own is immediately disqualified and forbidden from entering future Golden Demon painting competitions, so if Sean Graham ever had a bright future ahead of him as a miniatures painter we won't hear about it at the Golden Demons.
Thank you for letting us know about your Ethereal; I hope you don't see any more of your models entered into Golden Demon under other people's names in the future!"
Just a friendly reminder for those that choose to tarnish our hobby with this disgusting behaviour. The world is smaller than you think, and you WILL be found out.
The inquisition knows all...
Let the the burning, and cries of "Heretic!" begin!
1969
Post by: Raxor
They give the winners of these things trophies right? They going to take it back from him?
33022
Post by: Orki
Don't know if they can/will actually, but the award and title has (presumably) already been removed by now.
The cheating bugger now has a reminder of his underhand exploits on his shelf though, which hopefully will serve as good character building for him should he choose to accept the consequences of his actions.
Not sure about how/if they will elevate the other entries into bronze either, but I will let you know if I hear anything.
32644
Post by: Mr Mystery
Makes you wonder if the kid was put up to it by someone craving a Golden Daemon...Those things ain't easy to come by, and Youngbloods, entered fraudulentlly arguably offers the easier route to one.
16689
Post by: notprop
Theres a Dakkaite who posts here that states he won the Bronze at said event. Congrats kid, looks like you have just won silver!
29316
Post by: Matt65
The kid should have his name posted to all GW in the area and should be band from all painting events. Even small in store things.
35815
Post by: Wolflord Grimnar
so who will now be bronze winner? all of them were very good
3989
Post by: Padre
Terribly disappointing.
Just hope they can correctly allocate the trophies now. Personally, I think a letter requesting this "Sean Graham" to return the Gold trophy would not be out of order.
Padre^.
14899
Post by: ivangterrace
So OP
How did you feel when you first found out someone entered your model in a GD and called it theirs?
33022
Post by: Orki
Eh? It wasn't my work.
14899
Post by: ivangterrace
Oh, so you were quoting other people. Now I get it. I more or less skimmed the post.
17279
Post by: Irdiumstern
"Voting Guide: Pretend you're a Golden Demon judge. Painting skill, imagination and style are key!"
This is particularly hilarious in retrospect . . .
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
Bang out of order.....
20956
Post by: Empchild
This saddens me when I read or hear about stuff like this. I competed twice before I even took my bronze, and believe me no award felt sweater as when I "EARNED" mine as all of the hard work paid off. Hopefully I will continue to improve as I am always striving at it because it means something to earn titles and awards, not to take credit for somone elses hard work.
11268
Post by: nosferatu1001
Disgusting behaviour.
It will take a lot for people to trust that person now.
8742
Post by: MeanGreenStompa
I want a big picture of that cheating little git in White Dwarf along with a damning article about cheating.
(I might even buy it for that...)
15155
Post by: MunkeyKungFu
Get it on the website as well - Burn the heretic lmfao
17349
Post by: SilverMK2
The only problem with all that is that he is under 18, which presents a possible problem with splashing his face all over the place calling him a filthy cheater.
Although I agree that it would be a good thing to do, just as I believe that all scallywags (young and old) should be put into public stocks so that people can pelt them with rotten fruit.
7375
Post by: BrookM
I wonder what the parents would have to say about this..
Unless of course, they are involved..
26407
Post by: Bloodwin
I can kind of understand this happening in the adult categories, but to cheat against children? That's low.
22547
Post by: ChrisCP
It was children against children, even playing field
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
It wouldn't matter who it was against, the fact that they entered someone elses work in as their own is totally against the rules, as welll as being morally wrong.
I hope he is somehow 'shamed and then he might realise what he has done to make sure that he stops this stupid behaviour before it b ecomes habit.
32545
Post by: Element206
Thats really unfortunate.
22547
Post by: ChrisCP
The Decapitator wrote:It wouldn't matter who it was against,
Yeah cheating is wrong, but I was pointing out, as far as we know, it was his parent entering by proxie.
2548
Post by: jmurph
So he bought a well painted mini on Ebay and entered it. What a dolt.
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Post by: KingCracker
Yup thats an awesome set of morals that kid has. Even worse if it was a parent that just used his name. I still personally think alot of young blood entires are painted by parents. Not saying kids cant paint, because I have seen some amazing work done by youngins, just a personal opinion is all
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Post by: Flachzange
Orki wrote:
Let the the burning, and cries of "Heretic!" begin!
Sure.
BURN THE HERETIC.
GW`s mail is pretty straightforward. No BS-ing around. I like that.
5810
Post by: MIKEtheMERCILESS
...and he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
35637
Post by: Ixias
MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:...and he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids! 
But he was a kid himself :(
15155
Post by: MunkeyKungFu
SilverMK2 wrote:The only problem with all that is that he is under 18, which presents a possible problem with splashing his face all over the place calling him a filthy cheater.
Although I agree that it would be a good thing to do, just as I believe that all scallywags (young and old) should be put into public stocks so that people can pelt them with rotten fruit.
Old enough to cheat, old enough to be beaten!
34634
Post by: cgage00
Wow its sad when people want to cheat.
7161
Post by: Necroagogo
Maybe he should have disguised the ethereal in some way .. a moustache, perhaps, or a hat at a jaunty angle?
21364
Post by: FM Ninja 048
Me and my friend knew we had seen that mini before! we had a feeling something was wrong
2548
Post by: jmurph
Necroagogo wrote:Maybe he should have disguised the ethereal in some way .. a moustache, perhaps, or a hat at a jaunty angle?
That would have been cunning- a pair of glasses would have made it look like someone else entirely!
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
SilverMK2 wrote:The only problem with all that is that he is under 18, which presents a possible problem with splashing his face all over the place calling him a filthy cheater.
Are you implying that minors should get away with such things, cus that sounds well... stupid.
Torches and pitchforks at LOW LOW prices!!!
Call now!
While supplies last.
10345
Post by: LunaHound
Bloodwin wrote:I can kind of understand this happening in the adult categories, but to cheat against children? That's low.
First time for everything so you can even say he is doing a good job turning into an adult?
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Post by: notprop
Theres only one legal way to teach this little bleeder a lesson - posts picture of "his" entry along with his name at his school/town and expose him as a warhammer hobbyist.
The social stigma alone should keep him on the straight and narrow and earn him a few wedgies/kickings from his peer group.
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Post by: Daemon Eater
 so stupid to cheat I wonder if he cheats in other things like LIFE!!!!!
But GW should ask back for the award. And I bet that is one happy silver guy! Way to go you got a Gold now!!
4720
Post by: The Phazer
MunkeyKungFu wrote:Old enough to cheat, old enough to be beaten!
...and stupid enough to think that the internet wouldn't catch you cheating.
Very sad. I really can't imagine the point in having such a statue if you don't have it for something you achieved. Wouldn't it just make you feel so hollow inside to even look at it?
3934
Post by: grizgrin
HoverBoy wrote:SilverMK2 wrote:The only problem with all that is that he is under 18, which presents a possible problem with splashing his face all over the place calling him a filthy cheater.
Are you implying that minors should get away with such things, cus that sounds well... stupid.
Torches and pitchforks at LOW LOW prices!!!
Call now!
While supplies last.
I think he is just trying to say that there may be legal issues with doing such a thing, not that doing it is unwarranted. Sometimes the laws don't follow what we think is right.
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Post by: shrike
dispicable. I think this story (not pics of the kid, though, that's illegal) should be put in white dwarf, and the rightful 2nd and 3rd places notched up, and also the judges should judge a 3rd place.
35125
Post by: Capt_Bowman
HoverBoy wrote:
Are you implying that minors should get away with such things, cus that sounds well... stupid.
No, the issue is using a photo without his permission breaks several laws in the UK concerning minors. We have this issue when kids are convicted of crimes by the courts. They can't be named or pictured.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Quick, someone forward this to the Sun, give it a day or two and his face will be all over the tabloids in the latest UK scandal.
9808
Post by: HoverBoy
BrookM wrote:Quick, someone forward this to the Sun, give it a day or two and his face will be all over the tabloids in the latest UK scandal.
Doubdfull, altho his face making contact with some caffeteria food may be warranted for this.
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
I think they should send someone to the address to attempt to pick the trophy up, and if they can't then let the local papers pick up the story so they are shamed into returning it to the rightful owner (2nd place.)
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Post by: narceron
very sad, is a golden demon trophy really worth it? I mean, really, people will say, neat trophy, whats it from?
Oh that, I made my kid enter an ebay miniature into a national competition so I could cheat a bunch of kids out of it.
LOL
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
What should happen to the guy who cheated at Young Bloods?
1. Spank his bottom until it is red raw.
2. Burn his army.
3. Chop off his hands.
4. Out him at school as a 40K player
5. Exile to the Kuriles
6. Ban him from every shop, tournament and convention evar
7.Leave the sad feth alone, the topic is over.
21364
Post by: FM Ninja 048
8. Take away trophy and give to second place, then 7
16689
Post by: notprop
oh if we are being cruel:
9. Allow him to paint nothing but the soon to be released Stormraven.
Too much?
10127
Post by: Happygrunt
notprop wrote:oh if we are being cruel:
9. Allow him to paint nothing but the soon to be released Stormraven.
Too much?
We have laws about cruel and unusual punishment. That crossed the line.
36277
Post by: The Decapitator
Happygrunt wrote:notprop wrote:oh if we are being cruel:
9. Allow him to paint nothing but the soon to be released Stormraven.
Too much?
We have laws about cruel and unusual punishment. That crossed the line.
Good effort......
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
If you want to really be cruel you'd make him build a Berserker heavy army using the 3.5 Chaos Space Marine codex so he can cry as his army hops out of their rhinos and chases land speeders they can never conceivably catch.
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Post by: physcosamatic
Locate his residency and sell him on the BLACK MARKET for cheating in a golden Demon competition. Its the only way to be sure
blood hungering hobbyists :L
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Post by: mrblacksunshine_1978
MunkeyKungFu wrote:SilverMK2 wrote:The only problem with all that is that he is under 18, which presents a possible problem with splashing his face all over the place calling him a filthy cheater.
Although I agree that it would be a good thing to do, just as I believe that all scallywags (young and old) should be put into public stocks so that people can pelt them with rotten fruit.
Old enough to cheat, old enough to be beaten!
that funny and true
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Post by: UsdiThunder
Capt_Bowman wrote:HoverBoy wrote:
Are you implying that minors should get away with such things, cus that sounds well... stupid.
No, the issue is using a photo without his permission breaks several laws in the UK concerning minors. We have this issue when kids are convicted of crimes by the courts. They can't be named or pictured.
Isn't a part of entering the contest a release for your miniatures' pic and as well as the "painter" in question. If so then GW owns the rights to the cheater's photos and can use it however they want. I don't know since I've not ever signed up for the GD.
Empchild, do you remember signing a release or waiver when you won Bronze?
20956
Post by: Empchild
Empchild, do you remember signing a release or waiver when you won Bronze?
No release signed but if you look through GW IP laws technically all pictures of their products are within their rights to do with as they please. Though the LOTR is completely different as technically they don't own the rights to that product but as to the rights to produce it. That's why if you use LOTR bitz with GW in demon they can't be photographed. I was bored one day and read through their whole legal section... was a slow day at work as I recall.
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Post by: blood reaper
Through him into a pit full of Rabie-infected Rotweilrs and pitbulls with no protection and smothered in sasuage grease...
34605
Post by: spireland
Instead of screaming for blood here, what we should be screaming for is GW coming up with solutions on how to prevent this sort of thing in the future.
22150
Post by: blood reaper
spireland wrote:Instead of screaming for blood here, what we should be screaming for is GW coming up with solutions on how to prevent this sort of thing in the future.
Screem for GW's Blood
19366
Post by: Grimm
While looking around the Internets for the Cheater, I came across this on the GW site.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?pageMode=multi&categoryId=&pIndex=2&aId=13000009a&start=3
That big white space feels good. I hope he knows we know he cheated.
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Post by: His Master's Voice
Oh yeah, I love the smell of righteous hatred in the morning. Almost as good as napalm...
20956
Post by: Empchild
Believe it or not this has happened several times in the U.S in recent years. It's sad but usually what they do is bump up peoples awards, and they generally know who would have been third so on average that person is contacted and given the award at a later date. As stated it really sucks that people go so far to do this, but I guess of consequence... the youngbloods generally have a smaller trophey  .
35808
Post by: Mukkin'About
Now i know how to get a golden demon! lol jk really that's lame
I hope my kid doesn't take too much after me or he'll never win lol!
Lord knows he / she will inevitably be drawn towards warhammer since it's all over the place in my house
Someone put up a poster of this kid outside your GW
"Wanted For Heresy"
21056
Post by: jprp
im thinking that this is a richkid and the parents think it is acceptable to buy a win as long as you can take the credit-people like this govern the country and hold all the top jobs - "why should they have to work hard when they can ride on the backs of others??"
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Post by: OoieGoie
This sort of thing isnt uncommon. People buy whole armies pre-painted these days and enter in whatever they can.
Then you have other issues like GD judges choosing their friends as winners. The issue list with these comps go's on and on.
20956
Post by: Empchild
Haha I am selling the models I won with, and a person asked me today if the trophey comes with it. I politely responded no, and was told that it would hurt the resale value of them. It amazes me how much people will try and do to get a demon. Just do what I did, take a ton of classes from demon winner, spend years practicing, and several thousand dollars traveling to multiple games days. That way when you actually win one it feel super sweet.
24443
Post by: Blitza da warboy
His Master's Voice wrote:Oh yeah, I love the smell of righteous hatred in the morning. Almost as good as napalm...
Isn't that what the internet is for? Getting pissed off?
Damn tho, this thread makes me sorta hugry for a painting contest...maybe the hobby shop one
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
narceron wrote:very sad, is a golden demon trophy really worth it? I mean, really, people will say, neat trophy, whats it from?
Oh that, I made my kid enter an ebay miniature into a national competition so I could cheat a bunch of kids out of it.
LOL
The sad thing is some people might think it's funny to feth with the nerds like that and give them props for it anyway.
So I imagine people will be lol'ing over it either way.
9401
Post by: whatwhat
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?pageMode=multi&categoryId=&pIndex=2&aId=13000009a&start=3
See why don't they, rather than just removing the gold entry, they move the second and third placed entries up. And then exchange the proper trophies with them?
I believe the owner of the third place entry is registered on dakkadakka ( peatread). If I were him I would be on to that and getting the prize I deserved.
Not to mention someone with a finalist badge deserves the bronze. But to be fair that one might be a bit too late to put right.
36580
Post by: HeRozZ x
i am not happy about that as i entered that catergory !!
17130
Post by: rdlb
This happened to a friend here last year. I wonder how many of the entries are actually painted by the people who enter them...
http://senjistudios.com/?p=1730
35815
Post by: Wolflord Grimnar
yep he's down from the gw website just a blank spot for gold
9594
Post by: RiTides
The real question is- how did this young person have enough money to buy a gold Golden-Daemon worthy paint job?
Either he put a lot of savings into it, or his parents bought it for him... makes me also wonder if they are involved or not.
Edit:
OoieGoie wrote:This sort of thing isnt uncommon. People buy whole armies pre-painted these days and enter in whatever they can.
Unfortunately, there's quite a stigma about this... even though I always tell my opponent, the TO, everybody that I didn't paint my army, I get a lot of negative comments about it at tournaments...
Which is why I'm selling it in turn and painting my own army, which I just finished assembling and priming, now that I have more time and space to hobby...
28456
Post by: darthmatty
Bring forth the rock of shame!!!!!!
31886
Post by: dkellyj
This is why I am also against using painting scores at tournaments as part of the overall winner...especially certain events that add 30-50% for painting/conversion. Too many times you see someone go 3-2 and win Best overall with an army you saw on ebay (or someones painting website) just a few months prior.
Mandate a 3 color and based table-top ready on all models to enter the tourny, but then hold a seperate sideshow with separate trophies/prizes based soley on modeling and painting.
9401
Post by: whatwhat
As long as the community shames those who do pull this crap then people will surely shy away from doing this. After all these prizes are really only revered within the war gaming community.
Getting rid of best in show awards etc. Is only letting these muppets win.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
RiTides wrote:The real question is- how did this young person have enough money to buy a gold Golden-Daemon worthy paint job?
Either he put a lot of savings into it, or his parents bought it for him... makes me also wonder if they are involved or not.
You're not suggesting a conspiracy to win a Games Workshop award, right?
I can't really see the parents caring enough about a Golden Daemon to help their son cheat. I just can't see it. If there were a cash prize or something, I could see it happening then.
3197
Post by: MagickalMemories
jprp wrote:im thinking that this is a richkid and the parents think it is acceptable to buy a win as long as you can take the credit-people like this govern the country and hold all the top jobs - "why should they have to work hard when they can ride on the backs of others??"
Well, unless you're the kid in question, I don't think it's appropriate for you to cast aspersions on his parents.
I mean, it's one thing to "wonder" if his parents had something to do with it. To outright SAY they did, though?
Bad form.
Eric
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
I get a lot of negative comments about it at tournaments...
Why? It's obvious you aren't trying to dupe people and win awards for it so why would they have any reason to keep talking crap?
34965
Post by: Big Tim
Sidstyler wrote:Why? It's obvious you aren't trying to dupe people and win awards for it so why would they have any reason to keep talking crap?
Because there is a bit of elitist attitude out there regarding player pained/converted armies. I have commissioned paint jobs before on miniatures I knew I wouldn't have time to paint. I have had multiple players say "Nice model.", I always let them know it's not my work, then they say "Oh.." and look down their nones at me and walk away spouting of about how they ALWAYS paint their own stuff.
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Post by: Samus_aran115
That's kind of lulzy. I wonder how he kept in such good condition for all those years? Anyway, I'm surprised that model even won gold. It's not that good...
3197
Post by: MagickalMemories
For a youngblood, it's freaking fantastic.
I mean, it's no Shrike that might be found at a FLGS or something like that... but it's nice. : )
Eric
7267
Post by: Somnicide
MunkeyKungFu wrote:
Old enough to cheat, old enough to be beaten!
How about "Old enough for cheatin' old enough for beatin!" That is the kind of thing a mob can chant. Preferably with torches and pitchforks.
4588
Post by: Destrado
MagickalMemories wrote:For a youngblood, it's freaking fantastic.
I mean, it's no Shrike that might be found at a FLGS or something like that... but it's nice. : )
Eric
We all saw what you did there.
196
Post by: cuda1179
Didn't this happen a couple years back with a Lucius the Eternal model? All the kid did was re-base an ebay model.
20956
Post by: Empchild
cuda1179 wrote:Didn't this happen a couple years back with a Lucius the Eternal model? All the kid did was re-base an ebay model.
Nope I know which one your talking about. Though the kid who painted it was a twit, he used to play at the natick mall here in Mass. As per the painted armies at tournies, For the ones I run if you own up to your army being painted by somone else I still give a minimum of 6 out of 20 points. I do this as on my checklist the army is painted,and with a 3 coat standard and basing. So that and we do two judges makes 6 points. If I find out that a winner lied our cheated well then I just ban them from any future events, and I contact my friends who run events and say "hey watch out for this person". I have yet to have that happen though on the east coast as I find most people are pretty honest about that, and they tend to own up more to their own work out of pride. Now I own pieces from other demon winners as buy them(at a friend discount) and study them. I also just do it as hey cool model and want it in the cabinet for a display. Would I ever enter them in a comp "HELL NO" I have proven I am good enough on my own. I harbor no ill will against people who buy armies as hey we have to work, or do family stuff and people can't always take the time out away from their duties to paint. I respect them more then the people who sit at their grandparents house and not look for a job, and paint all day.
P.S Open for commissions  _ I couln't resit the plug I'm sorry.
3197
Post by: MagickalMemories
@Destrado
Liked that, did ya? : )
@Emp & everyone else
I don't want to make this a "gaming elitism" thread, but I do have to say -with all due respect- that your post kind of bothered me, Emp.
I mean, first, we have people who judge us harshly if we're the kind of person who just wants to play the game and/or doesn't have (or want to make) the time to paint AND play. Now, if we buy painted miniatures and don't tell you about it, we get banned from tournaments?
That doesn't really strike me as fair.
I mean, okay. If you only want to give "best painted" to someone who painted the army himself, then I get it. I have very few qualms with that. But, to give him minimum points in scoring, as if he only gave them 3 colors? That strikes me as a slap in the face.
Keep in mind, I'm presuming that, like most/many tourneys, you count painting score towards who the overall winner is.
IMO, don't judge the guy harshly for having painted minis. Judge the minis based solely on how nice they look, but eliminate him from the "Best Painted" running. This way, he gets full points towards his score, but doesn't take the award away from someone who bought well painted models and wants to win the tourney.
Otherwise, you're just telling the guy, "If you don't put the same values as I do on all of the aspects of gaming, then you might as well stay home, if you're concerned about winning!"
That's how it strikes me, anyway.
I've been thinking about the kid in question.
He's young. He's stupid.
Young and stupid are practically synonymous, though. They go together like peanut butter & jelly, Fred & Ginger, Duct Tape & Nipple Clamps.
(TMI? LOL)
I don't think he should be banned for life. I think he should be banned for youth.
I think he should no longer be allowed to enter any GW sponsored competition OR EVENT until after he's turned 18. After that, give the kid another shot.
We all make stupid mistakes when we're young.
Some of us steal models.
Some of us steal cars.
Crap. I almost caved in a guy's face with a baseball bat once!
We learn. We change.
Who we become as adults is influenced by our youth.
It's not a good lesson to learn at his age that the world is a vindictive bitch who will never give you a second chance.
Just my opinion, FWIW.
Eric
20956
Post by: Empchild
@Magik: believe it or not I am one of the nicest organizers as most of them give you a flat zero. A person with twoor three painted models would get a higher score then a person who bought their army in most tournies. The problem is in a lot of tournies paint scores DO count towards the final, so how is it really fair to give somone a great paint score when they didn't do the work themselves. Believe it or not I caught flak for even giving any score at all. So my method is extremely generous, and if you or anyone else doesn't like that well.. their are plenty of tournies out there to fit your needs, and you don't have to come to mine  .
As per the child, the Ban for life is a staple in GW policy, and young and stupid may go together but the kid was old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. The rules need to be maintained otherwise that kind of behavoir would become rampant. I say good, he's banned for life from the Golden Demon and other GW run events. Maybe he learned a valuble lesson as he took away from others who were honest and put their hard work into their models.
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
MagickalMemories wrote:
I mean, first, we have people who judge us harshly if we're the kind of person who just wants to play the game and/or doesn't have (or want to make) the time to paint AND play. Now, if we buy painted miniatures and don't tell you about it, we get banned from tournaments?
That doesn't really strike me as fair.
I mean, okay. If you only want to give "best painted" to someone who painted the army himself, then I get it. I have very few qualms with that. But, to give him minimum points in scoring, as if he only gave them 3 colors? That strikes me as a slap in the face.
Keep in mind, I'm presuming that, like most/many tourneys, you count painting score towards who the overall winner is.
If a tournaments scoring system includes the painting and modelling skill of your army, why is it unfair not to allow points to someone who didn't paint it, all they did was stump up the cash. A tournament is a test of skill, if you have no skill why do you deserve points?
Emp's right if you didn't do you don't desevre the credit and taking credit for someone elses work is cheating. if someone won by 2 points cos of the painting standard of the army but had nothing to do with it, wouldn;t you think everyone else in the tournament would be  off and have no belief in the integrity of the organiser and not come back again.
I'm sorry you feel that Emp's integrity and belief in fair play sickens you
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Post by: covenant84
As a winner myself this year I don't see the point, it must feel so shallow to win with something you haven't done. And although plaigarism is rarely pursuded in court, it is illegal and is classed as theft as far as I'm aware (I work at a university).
Poor Effort
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Post by: MagickalMemories
BluntmanDC wrote:I'm sorry you feel that Emp's integrity and belief in fair play sickens you
Wow. A bit harsh there. Huh?
Where did I saiy it sickens me? That's quite an insult, considering just how thoroughly I went over my post to ensure that it was written in a respectful tone and avoided inflammatory language. That's something that not everyone online -or even on Dakka- can say for themselves. Maybe you should take notes on that.
@Emp... I've had quite a number of experiences with you online. I absolutely believe that you're a good organizer. Everything i've seen of you indicates as much.
I think our disagreement re: painted models probably stems from our views of the tournament. It looks to me like you prefer Hobby tournaments, where I prefer Game tournaments.
Which, of course, is not to say either is better than the other. It's just to piont out the difference.
That's why I like the Ard Boys tournament. It is a clear-cut GAME tourney. It's about how hard of a list you build, and how well you play it.
I don't think painting scores SHOULD come into play in a tournament. I'm not there to compare best painted models (not during the tourney, anyway). I'm there to play the game, have fun, and test my mettle as a "general." I think the "skill test" of the tourney should be how well you *play the game,* and should not be reflected in *how well you paint.*
For comparing painted models, I'll enter the painting competition.
-Again, that's just MY opinion. I know not everyone agrees.
Sadly, there are NOT a lot of tourneys out there that operate differently than yours. Not that are easy to get to for everyone, at least.
If yours is the only one around, anyone not painting their own stuff is SOL. You know?
Re: The ban:
I know it's a GW staple. For adults, I support it and think that they might need to throw in a public flogging, for good measure. : )
With kids, though... Eh. Maybe I'm just getting old and soft hearted.
I mean, it's not like he killed someone. He cheated. People are forgiven for cheating at worse things. Especially kids.
To reiterate, though... I'm not actively opposing GW's p.o.v. on it. I'm just lamenting the fact that it's that way.
Eric
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Post by: Empchild
@Magik: this all kinda flows in together actually. This in all stretches is a hobby, and for some of us a profession as well. As such we need to hold true to the rules of the game, and play fair. People work hard to earn those tropheys and for somone to buy it and play it off as their own is just wrong. If a 12 year old kills somone they still must be punished for murder, and will be tried as such. They will be in jail much longer then till they are 18. As such we know the difference between right and wrong and this kid was wrong and as such was not just an afront to himself but to those thousands of others who have legitimately competed. As per the tourney sense, if their is a style you like then go with it. If their is not a tourney near you that does what you like then make your own. At this point in the game their is no real excuse for people to say they can't have their cake and eat it too. I have traveled across international borders for events. I am by no means rich believe me but I saved for those one or two times a year and went.
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Post by: Aduro
I'm curious Emp, if someone brought an army list that they found online, would you ban them? They didn't do the work of coming up with an army themselves, someone else did all the work for them.
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Post by: HoverBoy
It's not exactly the same, since having a list dosen't magically give you the right skills to use it right
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Post by: Empchild
Aduro wrote:I'm curious Emp, if someone brought an army list that they found online, would you ban them? They didn't do the work of coming up with an army themselves, someone else did all the work for them.
HoverBoy wrote:It's not exactly the same, since having a list dosen't magically give you the right skills to use it right 
I agree with Hover.Their are so many duplicate lists out their as once combo that works tends to get used a lot so who cares on those.
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Post by: Mattbranb
I agree - I'd imagine we'll be seeing many more carbon copy leaf-blower lists popping up in the 2500 'Ard Boyz circuits
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