31760
Post by: DeepBeige
I recently read through a Dakka Thread stating that the Tau obtained their technology unreasonably fast and that because of this they are illogical and (fluff wise) cheesy and overpowered. At first it just seemed like some hate at all yall Tau playas so I figured I'd just ignore it, but upon some degree of further thought I realized that it really is pretty true. It doesn't really make sense for the Tau to have advanced so rapidly, and honestly, it doesn't make much sense that they've managed to avoid any level of infighting and still have souls.
It is occasionally hinted at that the Ethereals receive their crazy mind control powers from some outside source. It is also unlikely that the Tau have just gotten too lucky to have developed such a sizeable and peaceful empire with just them and their buddies. I've heard it mentioned before that it's all possibly some elaborate scheme developed by Chaos, but I think that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I personally believe that the Tau have obtained their sudden unreasonable technological advancements and cold, logical, communist utopia with the aid and guiding of the Old Ones.
Their rise to power coincides with the return of the Necrons, the immortal enemies of the Old Ones. They have basically the same attitude towards the whole emotion thing that the Old Ones did, and they were magically protected by a warp storm for thousands of years just in time to avoid an exterminatus. Further note that warp storms rarely protect an area and instead cause some manner of chaotic sillyness.
Thoughts?
27391
Post by: purplefood
Considering that all the Old Ones are dead...
Also Chaos has had more convoluted plans in the past.
And the Etherals are hinted at having some kind of control over the Tau but i'm not sure if there are hints at them being from an outside source.
More likely the Tau did it all through hard work and luck as much as it pains me to admit (I don't like them)
Out of all the other reasons i would choose Chaos gods.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Chaos would generate more chaos worshippers, so rather unlikely as guiding hand behind them.
Who played with genetics and loved order?
Right, the old ones.
They may have deceased, but a last effort thing could happen still. Either the last of them or his/her assitants. You know the little helpers every aspiring ruler of the Galaxy has...
I'd vote for old ones / influenced by old ones.
Simply for the fact of using the warp to shield them, focusing on biology for control instead of psi/tech, creating Tau as uninformed minions still happy to serve,
placing Tau in a good starting position as their home is close to lots of other inhabitable worlds.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
There is no mystery to the Tau. Seriously bad poll.
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
Its believed that the etherals powers are derived from being altered by the eldar. The tau's rapid growth in technology comes from a unified species being guided in a single cause and with no fear of invention, add to this that they actually trade with other species like the demiurg
Tau haters really don't have much ground to stand on.
for the c'tan, if it was part of the c'tan's plan why have necrons attacked the tau before.
for the old ones, they are dead/retired/evolved above physical form
for chaos, why would chaos use a non-psychic race with no history of deamonic possesion
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
BluntmanDC wrote:Its believed that the etherals powers are derived from being altered by the eldar.
No, it is not.
They just evolved naturally. No conspiracies needed. That's the whole point of the Tau: They're new. They're not beholden to any of the history of the 40k universe.
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
''There is strong implication from the similarities between an organ possessed uniquely among Tau by the Ethereals, and an organ which Q'orl use in pheromonal communication that this ability may be due to deliberate engineering in the Ethereals' past.'' paraphased from xenology
I said believe not are, there is actually a difference in their meaning.
27608
Post by: MekanobSamael
Empires rise and fall--the rise of the Tau wasn't especially meteoric. Just shows what you can do when you have science as well as technology.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
I think the Eldar thing is actually in a background book. Although it may be Imperial Propaganda.
I doubt the Tau have anything sinister behind them. They have many alien allies, I think at least one ally would catch on to anything suspect. Aswell as nothing indicating anything remotely sinister in the fluff.
You have to remember the Tau Empire has only existed outwith Tau for 1000 years. They are the young and ambitious answer to the grim and dark.
BFG Tau Fluff wrote:The Tau Empire has only expanded into space
during the last thousand years. Despite this they
have made remarkable progress in developing
both civilian and military starships, and have now
reached a level where their ships can be
compared to Imperial designs.
The development of the Tau fleet (known as the
Kor’vattra in Tau) has been given the highest
priority by the Ethereal Caste. Without the
Kor’vattra the manifest destiny of the Tau could
never be realised and as a species their existence
would be at the mercy of celestial phenomena
such as meteors or supernova.
Once unified by the Ethereal Caste the Tau made
incredible technological progress. By M39 they
had spread through the T’au system and ringed
their homeworld with orbital research and
manufacturing facilities. Further expansion
required a drive system capable of spanning
interstellar distances however and this proved to
be a formidable barrier.
Tau vessels already used a form of gravitic drive.
This projected a sheath of gravitic energy ahead
of and around the vessel which was continually
re-projected further ahead, drawing the ship
behind it rather like an archaic sail. For two
hundred tau’cyr the Water Caste grappled with
the problem only for the breakthrough to be
handed to them.
On the innermost of T’au seven’s moons a
routine geological survey discovered the remains
of an alien vessel. The significance of the find did
not disrupt Tau society as much as might have
been expected. Tau theorists had long reasoned
that other life forms existed and the verification
helped confirm the belief that there was a greater
destiny awaiting them. No Tau commented on
the sheer good fortune of finding the technology
that they so desperately needed on their
doorstep just when they needed it.
27391
Post by: purplefood
It could be the Chaos gods.
They don't always corrupt things they manipulate maybe the Tau were helped so that they would become a force to defeat the Imperium (Or just distract it)
Or maybe it's just dumb luck.
Maybe the Eldar have foreseen that they need the Tau in the future?
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
Your conjuring the eldars involvement out of thin air. Also Xenology, unlike most background books, isn't written by a narrator but an in-universe character. The entire thing is a journal and iirc in the end the writer goes insane.
27391
Post by: purplefood
BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
Or it could be that within a galaxy so large that the Tau simply got lucky.
27391
Post by: purplefood
KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Does your uncle Bob know how to genetically engineer and entire race?
Is your uncle Bob in 40k?
Is your uncle bob an Eldar Farseer?
You don't actually make a point there or argue my point.
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Please can you give me your source as to their origin, oh i'm sorry you can't, they just appeared (luckily at just the right time), you have far less evidence for you theory than the theory that some exterior force altered to ethereals for the task they perform.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
purplefood wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Does your uncle Bob know how to genetically engineer and entire race?
Is your uncle Bob in 40k?
Is your uncle bob an Eldar Farseer?
You don't actually make a point there or argue my point.
BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Please can you give me your source as to their origin, oh i'm sorry you can't, they just appeared (luckily at just the right time), you have far less evidence for you theory than the theory that some exterior force altered to ethereals for the task they perform.
The Eldar don't have the knowlege to engineer a race either.
You were both like "it's possible that yadda, yadda". Fine, its possible but you have as much evidence that the Eldar did it as I have about my Uncle Bob masterminding it. That's my point.
You just poicked a random race and said "they did it".
I also picked a random person.
27391
Post by: purplefood
No i didn't pick a random race.
I picked a race known forinterfern with other races for their own survival (Eldar)
And who have been hinted at having been messing with the Tau as they developed.
And if the IoM can genetically engineer a race i'm damn sure the Eldar can do it though they may have different ethics surrounding it.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
Moving thread to Dakka Polls.
30301
Post by: Laughing God
KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Does your uncle Bob know how to genetically engineer and entire race?
Is your uncle Bob in 40k?
Is your uncle bob an Eldar Farseer?
You don't actually make a point there or argue my point.
BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Please can you give me your source as to their origin, oh i'm sorry you can't, they just appeared (luckily at just the right time), you have far less evidence for you theory than the theory that some exterior force altered to ethereals for the task they perform.
The Eldar don't have the knowlege to engineer a race either.
You were both like "it's possible that yadda, yadda". Fine, its possible but you have as much evidence that the Eldar did it as I have about my Uncle Bob masterminding it. That's my point.
You just poicked a random race and said "they did it".
I also picked a random person.
I VIOLENTLY OPPOSE OPINIONS NOT LIKE MINE!!!! AWWWWW! 
Now to the seriousness. They are implying that the eldar guided the Tau development, speeding it up. Not engineered them completely. But the Eldar could snuff out or capture stars on a whim so its not too far fetched to think they can engineer races. I doubt this is the case though.
Its possible. but its just as possible for say C'tan (souless blue weakings make great snacks), chaos (why? more like why not for chaos), or the old ones (pension for making life). Really impossible to say why if there is a why, but hey with how passionate you all are about the subject please keep flaming one another for our amusment.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Laughing God wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Does your uncle Bob know how to genetically engineer and entire race?
Is your uncle Bob in 40k?
Is your uncle bob an Eldar Farseer?
You don't actually make a point there or argue my point.
BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:purplefood wrote:BluntmanDC wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:I'm afraid that has nothing to do with Eldar.
apart from the fact that the eldar may have used the biology of the Q'orl to alter the ethereals
now just so you understand 'may' does not mean 'they have' it means may.
It is possible the Eldar foresaw the need for the Tau and so engineered them and guided them they could have caused the warp storm that protected the planet for so long.
It is also possible my uncle bob did too.
Please can you give me your source as to their origin, oh i'm sorry you can't, they just appeared (luckily at just the right time), you have far less evidence for you theory than the theory that some exterior force altered to ethereals for the task they perform.
The Eldar don't have the knowlege to engineer a race either.
You were both like "it's possible that yadda, yadda". Fine, its possible but you have as much evidence that the Eldar did it as I have about my Uncle Bob masterminding it. That's my point.
You just poicked a random race and said "they did it".
I also picked a random person.
I VIOLENTLY OPPOSE OPINIONS NOT LIKE MINE!!!! AWWWWW!
Now to the seriousness. They are implying that the eldar guided the Tau development, speeding it up. Not engineered them completely. But the Eldar could snuff out or capture stars on a whim so its not too far fetched to think they can engineer races. I doubt this is the case though.
Its possible. but its just as possible for say C'tan (souless blue weakings make great snacks), chaos (why? more like why not for chaos), or the old ones (pension for making life). Really impossible to say why if there is a why, but hey with how passionate you all are about the subject please keep flaming one another for our amusment.
How are we flaming each other? Settle down there guy. You're the one who's "flaming". Automatically Appended Next Post: purplefood wrote:No i didn't pick a random race.
I picked a race known forinterfern with other races for their own survival (Eldar)
And who have been hinted at having been messing with the Tau as they developed.
And if the IoM can genetically engineer a race i'm damn sure the Eldar can do it though they may have different ethics surrounding it.
hinted at by whom?
And the IoM Genetically engineered what race now?
28292
Post by: Catyrpelius
The Space Marines!
22383
Post by: zadelistol
I remember reading in the Tau codex that after the IoM invaded to see if it was a decent planet to take over, they left to get reinforcements to exterminate all life upon it. Shortly after leaving there was a warp storm surrounding the planet, allowing the inhabitants to grow.
That is why I believe that the Chaos Gods have a plan for the Tau.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Catyrpelius wrote:The Space Marines!
I don't know if I'd call Space Marines a race but even if you want to go down that road they weren't created by the IoM but The Emperor. The Emperor is a pretty powerful figure in 40K IIRC and smarter than any Eldar. Even then some dark arts were required and It didn't turn out very well. Automatically Appended Next Post: zadelistol wrote:I remember reading in the Tau codex that after the IoM invaded to see if it was a decent planet to take over, they left to get reinforcements to exterminate all life upon it. Shortly after leaving there was a warp storm surrounding the planet, allowing the inhabitants to grow.
That is why I believe that the Chaos Gods have a plan for the Tau.
A new civilization is born and Killed every day in 40K. The odds were in favor that one would slip through eventually. Divine intervention is not required.
29919
Post by: REDoctoberXIII
My vote goes to the Old Ones. From reading the Necrons codex fluff; the Old Ones created utpoia-esque civilizations. What says that the tau where not part of this? The C'tan are still around, so that leads to the possibility that some of the Old Ones could still exist as well. Maybe not in corporeal forms like the C'tan, but perhaps in some sort of benevolent form, guiding the Tau.
It definitly is a fun theory to consider
19787
Post by: Newt-Of-Death
What are the Old Ones, and what is C'Tan?
Speaking as an x-Tau player and a non 40k book reader (exept gunheads!)
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Newt-Of-Death wrote:What are the Old Ones, and what is C'Tan?
Speaking as an x-Tau player and a non 40k book reader (exept gunheads!)
oh boy, that's a loaded question. You better use the old Lexicanum methinks.
34826
Post by: ChaosGalvatron
I went for elbow grease. Im not a fan of the Tau because of their anime look, but i do think its possible for a race to achieve a relatively high technology level on their own. Im not really fussed if a bit of fluff says they were caused by the old ones though. C'tan and Chaos seem a bit too nasty to have created the Tau. Are Tau even perceived in the warp?
6454
Post by: Cryonicleech
I still think it makes sense that they've outstripped the Imperium, I mean, the Imperium, even during the Crusade, was out to recover it's lost technology, and honestly the 41st Millennium has seen them lose more technology. The Tau are entirely committed to new technology, and have none of the superstitions mankind does, (I.E. The Omnissah and Emperor accepting new inventions, the Ecclesiarchy and Terra's censorship of new ideas, etc.) They are also noted to live shorter, so they would experience things faster than a human would, not Eldar speed, but since they live shorter lives they'll probably advance in less time, being pressured by earlier death.
35046
Post by: Perkustin
The old ones only guidance was the fact they made the tau, apart from that they are functioning as intended. I think the tau in certain ways are beyond man technologically (even DAoT man)in personal weapons, aeronautics and agriculture for sure. In others they are (comparitively) pitifully unadvanced, personal defence and warp technology spring to mind. Oh and since when were ALL the old ones dead?! All that is ever said is that they have moved on or are in voluntary exile, Not dead! (the enslaver plague and the birth of chaos near destroyed them after the war in heaven but it never says they all died).
33575
Post by: Bossasaurus
Communism(if implemented correctly) moves mountains. Nuff' said.
Also, unlike humanity they united very early, so they didn't have to deal with wars an all.
15128
Post by: CodGod
The reason the Tau were able to gain so much technological ground so fast is that the presence of the Ethereals allowed the race as a whole to focus on the greater good, as opposed to other reaces such as humanity which were distracted through their whole development by infighting between nations and peoples. The influence of the Ethereals brought all of the Tau together to work on the goal of improving the race as a whole.
The mystery comes in when trying to work out where the Ethereals first came from. There's no record suggesting the gradual emergence of one group of Tau who could exert increasing levels of control/influence over others, which would be expected had the Ethereals evolved naturally amonst the Tau. Instead, they appeards fully formed during the darkest period of Tau history, and lead the Tau to peace and Prosperity.
It seems likely that the Ethereals are not entirely natural. Xenology very strongly implys that the Eldar were involved with the creation of the Ethereals, and provides far more evidence for this idea than I have ever seen in any cannon source supporting any other origin for the Ethereals.
Since one of the strongest (the strongest - unless there are some really strong hints in some other source that I've never heard of) cannon suggestions is that the Eldar are responsible, It seems logical to concludes they probably are, at least until we get more evidence. So I'm slightly baffled to see they're not an option on the poll, and there isn't even an option for "other" so I can't actually vote for anything which even vaguely reflects my opinion on the matter.
34826
Post by: ChaosGalvatron
Did it explain why the eldar might have done this? And how long ago was this darkest period in Tau history?
15128
Post by: CodGod
ChaosGalvatron wrote:Did it explain why the eldar might have done this?
Yes.
A race (heavily hinted to be the eldar) aided the Q'Orl in defending a swarmworld beset by a "corrosion" (possibly referring to Chaos). Once the swarmworld was safe, the Q'Orl's allies insited that in return for their help, they be allowed to take the Q'Orl's great queen, and I quote " to build a swarm uncorroded". When the Q'Orl refused, their rescuers stole away the queen in secret and left.
If the "corrosion" mentioned in the Q'Orls histories is indeed chaos, the reference to "a swarm uncorroded" could easily refer to the warp-resistant Tau race.
The Q'Orl have a diamond-shaped crystal gland in their head connected to their brain. It is astonishingly similar to the diamond-shaped organ found in the forehead of the Tau Ethereals.
ChaosGalvatron wrote:And how long ago was this darkest period in Tau history?
I don't know if any source specifies the actual time when this happened. The period was known as the Mont'au, where the waring factions of the Tau race were pushing each other close to extinction. More info:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mont'au
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Early_Tau_History
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Codgod has one me over.
I cannot say that the points he makes are not relitive. Lexicanum also talks about this.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ethereals
It references this from pg62 in Xenology.
33646
Post by: Zuul
It might just be me but 6000 years seems like plenty of time to go from stone age to advanced technology so long as no major setbacks occur and taking into consideration the rather inquisitive nature of the tau.
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Zuul wrote:It might just be me but 6000 years seems like plenty of time to go from stone age to advanced technology so long as no major setbacks occur and taking into consideration the rather inquisitive nature of the tau.
think about it Civilisation in europe in 4000BC was pritty basic.
34826
Post by: ChaosGalvatron
Quite interesting.
Thanks for that CodGod.
6000 years would be alot of time to develop in a utopian society. the greeks of our world were apparently capable of making electricity, and the fall of the roman empire set western civilisation back centuries. Without major conflict a lot could be achieved.
15128
Post by: CodGod
Of course, when judging the time taken for a civilization to reach high technology, we don't really have much to go on. It's perfectly possible that 6000 years is the norm, and humans are exceptionally stupid when it comes to screwing up our own progress with wars and so on - we don't know.
We certainly had many civilizations in our history who got really far (further than we usually give them credit for today - the ancient Greeks had basic elevators, for example), only for that knowledge to be lost to humanity as a whole when the guys from the next civilization over, who'd spent their time making sharper sticks instead of learning things, decided they needed more space/slaves/skulls for the skull throne.
I certainly think it makes sense that the Tau got there much faster than us once they had the Ethereals, since they put a stop to the wars and rivalries which could have gotten in the way of Tau progress. Humanity never had anything like that.
As for the origins of the Ethereals, assuming Xenology's still cannon and hasn't been retconed yet, which could happen, it seems pretty clear that someone took a Q'Orl queen and used it to engeneer the Ethereals. It's implied that it was the Eldar, but it might have been another race. My personal belief is that the Eldar saw the early Tau and noted their warp-resistance, and decided to give them a push along the path to civilization so that they might eventually be useful as an ally/distraction/something else against chaos/IoM/whoever else. It seems like the kind of thing the Eldar might do.
9000
Post by: Vargtass
Elbow grease. Although the Old Ones sound compelling, it's not their style to create a supreme caste that controls people through mind control, as it has been hinted at that the Ethereals do.
And to all of you who say the Old Ones are dead, Snicker please! I am sure there is a couple of them left, fighting desperately to survive and making more freaky experiments to aid them in their struggle.
But now that I think of it... Isn't it said somewhere that Tau doesn't register in the Warp? Like, their soul doesn't reflect to daemons and such.
34826
Post by: ChaosGalvatron
CodGod wrote:Of course, when judging the time taken for a civilization to reach high technology, we don't really have much to go on. It's perfectly possible that 6000 years is the norm, and humans are exceptionally stupid when it comes to screwing up our own progress with wars and so on - we don't know.
We certainly had many civilizations in our history who got really far (further than we usually give them credit for today - the ancient Greeks had basic elevators, for example), only for that knowledge to be lost to humanity as a whole when the guys from the next civilization over, who'd spent their time making sharper sticks instead of learning things, decided they needed more space/slaves/skulls for the skull throne.
I certainly think it makes sense that the Tau got there much faster than us once they had the Ethereals, since they put a stop to the wars and rivalries which could have gotten in the way of Tau progress. Humanity never had anything like that.
As for the origins of the Ethereals, assuming Xenology's still cannon and hasn't been retconed yet, which could happen, it seems pretty clear that someone took a Q'Orl queen and used it to engeneer the Ethereals. It's implied that it was the Eldar, but it might have been another race. My personal belief is that the Eldar saw the early Tau and noted their warp-resistance, and decided to give them a push along the path to civilization so that they might eventually be useful as an ally/distraction/something else against chaos/IoM/whoever else. It seems like the kind of thing the Eldar might do.
I was thinking maybe the Eldar were planning on using them against chaos, since it sounds like they are basically a race of Nulls. But Tau wont be capable of fighting chaos for thousands of years and its not like the Eldar plan ahead or anything. OMG! 
32545
Post by: Element206
old people...i mean ones
31760
Post by: DeepBeige
Sorry I didn't include the Eldar as an option. I honestly had never heard anything about their involvement, but it makes sense.
Therefore, due to popular demand I'll add the Eldar to the list of options.
Also, just in case anyone thinks it may be space slugs or secret Nazi experiments or witchcraft I'll add an "Other" option as well.
5418
Post by: B'en J'amin
Let's look at the facts from the actual Tau codex. The Tau USED to be violent, with all the different castes fighting, constantly. The Tau changed, suddenly. At the same time, all around the world, Ethereals appeared. Out of nowhere. They are the ones that united the Tau with their concept of the Greater Good. This also heralds in the sudden technology increase. In a period of, what, less than a couple thousand years? Maybe less than a thousand? The Tau went from barely having gunpowder weapons to Space Flight, pulse weapons, interplanetary colonization, etc. etc.
The book Xenology, while not specifically canon I suppose, is well written, and highly important to this argument. Sure, the main character went insane at the end, but all of his findings up to then were and are completely valid. (The Necron Lord was using him as a tool, all the information he gained was going to be used by the Necrons, in case you missed the whole point.) Therefore, the revelation that Tau Ethereals have a special... gland? In their brain that seems similar to yada yada yada from another race, is a vital fact. It's used to subtly exert influence over other Tau. That is also why Farsight went rogue. The Tau codex, and I think a couple books, say that he only turned from the Path of the Greater Good when his accompanying Ethereal was killed.
*side note* It's also hinted at that the 'Communion Helm' the leaders of the Vespids wear is similar in function. It enables communication, but they make it sound like it also lets them exert undue... Influence, over the Vespids. It's one of those nice hints that the Tau's utopia is a little more sinister than we seem to think.
The Ethereals were clearly introduced by an outside influence. That's undeniable. They are tampered with Tau, custom designed to exert control and provide drive and focus for their entire race.
The candidates? Let's look.
Chaos Gods: Nope. Why would they create a non-psychic race? The Tau are immune to the lure of Chaos. They have no psykers. All the halmarks of Chaosy evil are nowhere to be found. Ergo, I believe that it's not possible that the Chaos Gods made the Tau.
C'tan: the dark gods of the Necrons. Possible. It's hinted at that Cmdr. Farsight's weapon blade thing is a 'cron artifact. However, as everyone knows, the Necrons are anti-living things. They wouldn't create a race, they wouldn't do anything but wipe out intruders. They are the least likely of candidates, but... I won't rule them out entirely. The C'tan CAN be sneaky. I just don't think it's them.
Elbow Grease: Nope. The Ethereals were introduced. Someone had SOMETHING to do with this.
The Eldar: Eh, possibly. But the Eldar were created by the Old Ones with psychic powers to battle the Necrons, wayyyy back when. Sure, they had the powers of the stars at their command, etc. But it doesn't seem like something they'd do. There isn't much evidence that the Eldar traipsed across the universe messing with other races. They might meddle a little bit, but it seems to me that the Eldar wouldn't go to such extremes for some little race at the edge of the galaxy. They have problems of their own.
The most obvious choice for me is the Old Ones. Ooooooohhhhh, Mysterrriiiiiooouuuuusssss! It bears all the halmarks of traditional Old Ones style meddling, influence, and handiwork. They seem to have been custom designed from the beginning to counter specific threats, I.E. Chaos and the Necrons. The Tau are technologically advanced enough to give battle to the Necrons, and they have no psychic signature or presence, rendering them immune to the taint of Chaos. They were Further meddled with upon the introduction of the Ethereals. The 'perfect race' to battle these specific threats was unified and hurtled forward technologically, just as the Necrons are beginning to re-emerge. I'm not 100% convinced that it's the Old Ones, but by my reasoning, it seems like the best choice out there.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
 fine I'll reread the Tau parts of Xenology. I own it but I didn't think it was very good.
@B'en: I'm not convinced of Old Ones either for the simple reason the Old Ones are long, long, long dead in M34. What about the Q'orl themselves?
5418
Post by: B'en J'amin
@KamikazeCanuck, I have to give you that one. As far as we know, they're long dead. But they fit the bill! haha. I am Convinced that someone tampered with the Tau. As far as the Quorl go, I'd have to re-read Xenology, but I don't see such a minor, unknown sort of race being that powerful or advanced. I didn't rule out All the other choices, but they don't seem all that likely. The Eldar... eh. Not their style, in my honest opinion. Creating an entire race Long after The Fall doesn't seem possible. I've already ruled out Chaos. And I'm Pretty sure it was the Emperor himself, haha. Necrons... eh, again, unlikely. And it Wasn't the 'nids, or orks. I'm just not sure. The Old Ones seem the best candidates, besides the fact that as far as we know they're all dead...
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
RE Eldar: exactly doesn't seem their style. If they had some plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6,000 years they use it on....themselves. They've got enough problems without making new species for fun.
15000
Post by: Stephen Bond
<comment removed. Please don't post things like this on Dakka.>
35957
Post by: Draglide12
Elbow Grease all the way. The Tau aren't dissimiliar from current real humanity. Our own technology progresses at an exponential rate and we can't even claim unity.
9466
Post by: Anadaroo
Its that damned 5th Chaos God.. whatever the hell his name is !!! 
32374
Post by: d.fear
none of the above. It was ME!
35004
Post by: guiltl3ss
I think the Tau prosper because theyreally try to make things better. They get out there, meet and befriend other races, and generally work towards the "great good." Its not surprising to see their tech jump as they are in contact with civilizations with advanced tech and the Tau are VERY good about adapting and bringing in new things to their civilization. The Etherals guide them well, and theyre around by some sort of evolutionary advancement I would wager. I dunno, all theory to me. But the Tau are really cool and seem to be the "good guys" in the 40k universe.
15128
Post by: CodGod
KamikazeCanuck wrote:RE Eldar: exactly doesn't seem their style. If they had some plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6,000 years they use it on....themselves. They've got enough problems without making new species for fun.
While I see where you're coming from, I don't think this necessarily makes sense. It's (potentially) easy for a more advanced civilization to help a less advanced civilization than to advance themselves. They didn't really have "a plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6000 years", they had a means to significantly increase the advancement of a very primitive civilization - bringing the Tau up towards (not to, at least yet, but towards) the level they themselves were already at. Since the Eldar weren't a primitive civilization on the verge of wiping itself out with war, of course their own civilization wouldn't have benefited from the influence of the Ethereals in the way that the Tau did.
As for the Q'Orl themselves, I can't check 'til I get home, but I believe that they, like the Tau, had no access to warp travel, and were located on the other side of the galaxy, making it unlikely the two races would have ever met.
d.fear wrote:none of the above. It was ME!
I'm convinced. The mystery is solved!
Now please use your great and powerful influence over the Tau race to give the Ethereals decent rules. 
26615
Post by: grayspark
I'm thinking that the idea of the Old Ones being involved is a good one.
It is mentioned a few times about the crashing of the ship onto the Tau world, along with the fact that the Ethereal suddenly appeared from nowhere the moment before the Tau race died.
Perhaps some kind of safe guard created by the Old Ones before the liveforms they had created died off? The Ethereals merely being enhanced forms of the Tau life forms. This can also be based off the information put forward before that a few of the organs inside the Ethereals are also encountered in Eldar.
35004
Post by: guiltl3ss
They also live REALLY quick. I think their normal span is like 40 years, so I'm guessing their reproduction rate is quite high...
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
d.fear wrote:none of the above. It was ME!
This.
Seriously though, I don't see the Tau as being engineered. They're just one of the many upstart civilisations, except this one 'got away' (meaning they weren't immediately ground into the dust by a bigger fellow). At most I can see evidence to support rumours that Ethereals may have been tampered with, but no more.
34612
Post by: Ledabot
It WAS YOUR MUM.
13173
Post by: Aretak
The Taucron Empire will rise from the ashes of this world and consume all flesh and bone!
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
Ledabot wrote:It WAS YOUR MUM.
28848
Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Emperors Faithful wrote:d.fear wrote:none of the above. It was ME!
This.
Seriously though, I don't see the Tau as being engineered. They're just one of the many upstart civilisations, except this one 'got away' (meaning they weren't immediately ground into the dust by a bigger fellow). At most I can see evidence to support rumours that Ethereals may have been tampered with, but no more.
Basically yes. IoM performs about a dozen genocides a day. However, some slip through the net. The T'au serve as a cautionary tale to those who ask why does Humans do so much genociding? Because if you don't: one day they're swinging clubs at you the next they're shooting you in the face with a railgun.
35046
Post by: Perkustin
Oh is that what they stole the queen for?... I suppose it was the eldar then. I guess it makes sense because the old ones didnt meddle with existing species, they made their own. My main problem with xenology is it doesn't say if 'vanilla' tau have this gland. Basically if all tau have the gland it's the old ones (the ethereals were merely waiting for the right moment a la EoM) but if only ethereals then it was the eldar (they were created when the tau's benefators deemed it necessary), case closed.
22855
Post by: djdutton
For what I know, Tau dont even register in the warp so a chaos plot seems silly. It could just be that developing in a galaxy filled with so many dangers and enemies they realized that they needed to stick together to survive.
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Emperors Faithful wrote:Ledabot wrote:It WAS YOUR MUM.
My friend wrote that while i was getting food.
Sorry
3564
Post by: Brother Bartius
There is a C'tan obviously pulling the strings in the background of the Tau.
After all how else could they advance so rapidly!
Outside influence all the way - Watch this space the next weapons the Tau develop will be remarkably like gauss weaponry.
35957
Post by: Draglide12
Noob question: Who are the C'tan?
35004
Post by: guiltl3ss
The C'tan are the god-leaders of the Necrons, in a very simple answer.
14908
Post by: Kogwar
While i do think eldar and old ones are good choices I pose the queastion what about Interex? I mean they had some advanced tech if they were dying otu they would want to spread there ideas and they had advanced tech I mean they did have arrows that made horus's amror look like tin foil.
16833
Post by: doubled
I vote C'Tan, simple reason, the one thing that stands out in the fluff was the inabilty of the C'Tan to combat the Old ones and their creations when it came to psychic ability and use of the warp. Now you have a new race seemingly guided with super advanced technology, no psychic abilities, and without enough soul to register in the warp. As for being attacked by other Necrons, the C'tan have fought with each other many times, thats why there is only a handful left.
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
The chaos gods are everwhere mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
28513
Post by: Wolfed
Now, I'm not that well versed in the WH40K lore as some of you (though I certainly enjoy reading the conspiracy theories!), I am however a bit knowledgable in storytelling technique. You say that it's hinted heavily in this tome "Xenology" that the Ethereals are tampered-with Tau? While it's certainly possible that GW writers throw in such suspicions just to throw people off and create controversy, it's unlikely such ideas be thrown around without thought. If you give hints in a written fiction text, it's usually to promote the idea that it is true (the rumour I mean). So if you look at it from a writer's perspective, I think it's safe to assume that the Ethereals WERE tampered with (not a 100% certain, but certainly more than plausible). As to who stuck their dirty paws in the geneological cookie-jar, I don't have a clue. I voted for the Old Ones outta ignorance, but the Eldar seem as likely to me after reading these posts. Or someone else yet un-introduced. Deception attempts by the C'tan have before (I think) been more personal and direct due to their enjoyment of the worshipping of them. I don't think they'd get the saticfaction they crave from manipulating a race second-hand.
9000
Post by: Vargtass
Perkustin wrote:Oh is that what they stole the queen for?... I suppose it was the eldar then. I guess it makes sense because the old ones didnt meddle with existing species, they made their own. My main problem with xenology is it doesn't say if 'vanilla' tau have this gland. Basically if all tau have the gland it's the old ones (the ethereals were merely waiting for the right moment a la EoM) but if only ethereals then it was the eldar (they were created when the tau's benefators deemed it necessary), case closed.
It's a freaky diamond-thingy in the forehead. Although the minis alla have some kind of slit going from the "nose tip" through the bridge and a bit up on the forehead, the only ethereal to actually show any trace on a diamond majig is Aun Shi ( http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440287a&prodId=prod1060273). All other taus have slits too (including a stranger version on Shadowsun, but she's just a freaky mofo overall) but none show any diamonds. Since Aun Shi's seems to move further up on the forehead, it could be argued that his shows because he has sustained an injury or otherwise been cut to show it.
In artwork the diamond is shown more prominently, most so on Aun Va's body guard in the codex. According to Xenology a similar diamond is found in the Quorl, which is a bee-like race which functions on a hive level, where the diamond functions as a sort of hive mind amplifier to control the drones.
Further I would like to add that the "Author" of Xenology was fething mad to begin with. =p
PS: Anyone to poke fun at my numerous uses of the term "slit" and the fact that the diamond is positioned at the top of said "slit" will be punished with Nurgles Rot... but seriously, who on GW came up with that design? Do they want us to call the Ethereals faces or what?
22383
Post by: zadelistol
Quick question...
Who are the Interex?
I have never heard of them.
25774
Post by: Pael
The tech advancments of the Tau are not fast at all. 100 years ago the car didn't exist now we fly and take trips to the moon. 25 years ago a computer filled a room now it fits in our pockets and can do thousands possibly a million more things. Once the ball got rolling for technology breakthroughs it has turned into a lanslide for us. Why is it hard for everyone to believe that a fictional race could develop within 1,000 years to the level that the Tau have? We are close and have only been working on it for 100 or so years, 900 more to go and who know what we will be doing.
9824
Post by: Vet Sgt Ezekiel
Old ones: Dead.
Eldar: WTF? Seriously?
Chaos: Too obvious and why? Again, WTF?
Elbows: Could they gave done it without Ethereals? No.
C'Tan: Yes, blatantly. As we all know from the fluff Necrons and Tau have been allies for a while now. Fellow dead heads hand in hand til the end of time controlled by the same zap heads. Necrau for the intergalactic smorgasbord of win!
31760
Post by: DeepBeige
Pael wrote:The tech advancments of the Tau are not fast at all. 100 years ago the car didn't exist now we fly and take trips to the moon. 25 years ago a computer filled a room now it fits in our pockets and can do thousands possibly a million more things. Once the ball got rolling for technology breakthroughs it has turned into a lanslide for us. Why is it hard for everyone to believe that a fictional race could develop within 1,000 years to the level that the Tau have? We are close and have only been working on it for 100 or so years, 900 more to go and who know what we will be doing.
True, except it's likely we'll have some manner of cataclysmic war that sets us back thousands of years if 40k has anything to say about it.
This is not a question of "is it reasonable for the Tau to have advanced this quickly?" The big question imo is how and why repeated a few times.
Ex: The Tau have advanced at an astonishing rate.
Q. How did they do that?
A. They haven't had an internal war for thousands of years and they were protected at just the ideal moment by a warp storm, a thing that doesn't often "protect" a planet, but rather starts throwing some weird chaos nonsense all over the place.
Q. How has an otherwise warlike race not fought any internal wars for 6000 years (most of that time with nobody else to fight, societies turn on themselves with no outside force to unite against) and why did a warp storm suddenly appear just before an imperial extermination and not cause any "Chaotic" influence?
A. To the first question: The ethereals appeared suddenly and out of nowhere and everybody is phenomenally persuaded by them.
To the second question: 
Q. Where did the ethereals come from and why did they appear so suddenly and with magical peacemaking powers?
A. and
That leaves us with no explanation for anything other than, "In an near perfect environment that ignores friction and gravity and maybe there was a million monkeys typing on a million typewriters writing Shakespeare then this would happen". I acknowledge that in "ideal" circumstances it could work, but there are too many coincidences here to not question it. I personally lean towards the idea of the old ones. The only reason why it wouldn't be them is because they're supposedly all dead, but since when has being extinct stopped anybody?
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
CodGod wrote:KamikazeCanuck wrote:RE Eldar: exactly doesn't seem their style. If they had some plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6,000 years they use it on....themselves. They've got enough problems without making new species for fun.
While I see where you're coming from, I don't think this necessarily makes sense. It's (potentially) easy for a more advanced civilization to help a less advanced civilization than to advance themselves. They didn't really have "a plan to repopulate 100 worlds in 6000 years", they had a means to significantly increase the advancement of a very primitive civilization - bringing the Tau up towards (not to, at least yet, but towards) the level they themselves were already at. Since the Eldar weren't a primitive civilization on the verge of wiping itself out with war, of course their own civilization wouldn't have benefited from the influence of the Ethereals in the way that the Tau did.
Add to the fact that the Eldar hate chaos and actually do like to meddle with worlds/fates/people all over the galaxy, just look at Eldrad Ulthran. For them to alter the path of a warp resistant race from near destruction to small space empire does make sense.
26642
Post by: vorpalhit
They found a working stc, and have no fear of tech so can evolve there own brand technology from the IoM.
Its the Emperors plan all along!
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
Lolz.....
Sorry but that is just funny
10667
Post by: Fifty
Taucron ftw!
14908
Post by: Kogwar
They coould eb a time delayed plant by the old ones swet up not to develop till long after the war in heaven was over.
23223
Post by: Monster Rain
The answer is so obviously the C'Tan that I can scarcely believe we are having this conversation.
11610
Post by: Tzeentchling9
Damned Eldar technology. *Sorry, it's a running joke in the local GW that if something relating to 40k does not make sense, you blame eldar technology* EDIT: I voted Eldar give them technology.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
@Ledabot: It's all good, mate.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Emperors Faithful wrote:d.fear wrote:none of the above. It was ME!
This.
Seriously though, I don't see the Tau as being engineered. They're just one of the many upstart civilisations, except this one 'got away' (meaning they weren't immediately ground into the dust by a bigger fellow). At most I can see evidence to support rumours that Ethereals may have been tampered with, but no more.
Basically yes. IoM performs about a dozen genocides a day. However, some slip through the net. The T'au serve as a cautionary tale to those who ask why does Humans do so much genociding? Because if you don't: one day they're swinging clubs at you the next they're shooting you in the face with a railgun.
"I have always advocated the complete annhilation of all humans, as well as some of the more cunning primates..."
9370
Post by: Accolade
Monster Rain wrote:The answer is so obviously the C'Tan that I can scarcely believe we are having this conversation.
Exactly this. We might as well be arguing about Space Marines being ten feet tall...the answer is so blatantly yes that all we're doing is pandering to absurd viewpoints.
34968
Post by: Calvinus
I find it odd no one is thinking it might be an inquisitor from years gone by! An inquisitor could have gone heretic and joined a genestealer cult, used rituals of genetic modification and created the tau, gave them the technology startup from the imperial technology available at the time which they then successfully improved to where they are today!
It's the inquisition! It's so obvious yet so unexpected!
31760
Post by: DeepBeige
We might as well be arguing about Space Marines being ten feet tall...quote]
Space Marines are nine feet tall.
Unrelatedly
A note to all y'all hataz: I just started this discussion because the Tau Empire's rise to power is a weird thing in the 40k universe and I haven't heard it talked about much. Figured it'd be fun to discuss.
And now for something completely different: Note that this poll currently shows something like a bell curve.
23223
Post by: Monster Rain
DeepBeige wrote:We might as well be arguing about Space Marines being ten feet tall...quote]
Space Marines are nine feet tall.
The short ones are, maybe.
wikipedia wrote:While the bulk of humanity's military power is found in the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines(Adeptus Astartes)– giant, 10 foot tall, genetically-enhanced super-soldiers with world-destroying firepower and unswerving, fanatical loyalty to the Emperor of Mankind – are the most famous.
On average, they are closer to 10. Sorry, man.
9824
Post by: Vet Sgt Ezekiel
Some marines are more than ten feet. Pasanius from the Ultrasmurfs could have been as tall as 10'1". In fact I think it was 10'1.23647" from memory. It's all there in the fluff.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
DeepBeige wrote:We might as well be arguing about Space Marines being ten feet tall...quote]
Space Marines are nine feet tall.
Unrelatedly
A note to all y'all hataz: I just started this discussion because the Tau Empire's rise to power is a weird thing in the 40k universe and I haven't heard it talked about much. Figured it'd be fun to discuss.
And now for something completely different: Note that this poll currently shows something like a bell curve.
This poll can't be plotted on a graph as the preference choice is not numerical data.
31760
Post by: DeepBeige
Glad we were able to argue about that, but given that Wikipedia is the absolute source of all truth I concede. Space Marines are totally 10 ft tall (excepting the special few who reach the gargantuan heights of 10' 1".
10207
Post by: namegoeshere
Laughing God wrote:
Its possible. but its just as possible for say C'tan (souless blue weakings make great snacks), chaos (why? more like why not for chaos), or the old ones ( pension for making life). Really impossible to say why if there is a why, but hey with how passionate you all are about the subject please keep flaming one another for our amusment.
Penchant, not pension Automatically Appended Next Post: Wolfed wrote: While it's certainly possible that GW writers throw in such suspicions just to throw people off and create controversy, it's unlikely such ideas be thrown around without thought. If you give hints in a written fiction text, it's usually to promote the idea that it is true (the rumour I mean). So if you look at it from a writer's perspective, I think it's safe to assume that the Ethereals WERE tampered with (not a 100% certain, but certainly more than plausible).
I'd say rather the opposite, that gw are ready to throw any amount of random 'hints' just as a cheap grimdark, tactic. Also I doubt they really have any consistent plans for the various races beyond 'this race is the uberest!!!!' for whichever is new. Chaos used to be a big deal, now there are more invulnerable to the warp races than actually susceptable. Not to mention that each new race is touted as, even bigger than chaos!!!!
So for that reason the necrons did it. Because they are someones new (lame) pet project, the newest (oldest) kid on the block.
Honestly it's annoying, one day Doomsday is some badass who kills superman, the next he's nobody - getting wasted by the new guy.
9000
Post by: Vargtass
Monster Rain wrote:wikipedia wrote:While the bulk of humanity's military power is found in the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines(Adeptus Astartes)– giant, 10 foot tall, genetically-enhanced super-soldiers with world-destroying firepower and unswerving, fanatical loyalty to the Emperor of Mankind – are the most famous.
On average, they are closer to 10. Sorry, man.
You quote Wikipedia on that? Weak man. Weak. I'll go over here and mourn your loss of dignity.
9824
Post by: Vet Sgt Ezekiel
Wiki-who?
Let's stick to the Black Library for facts shall we?
Or Lexicanum.
Or me.
23223
Post by: Monster Rain
Vargtass wrote:Monster Rain wrote:wikipedia wrote:While the bulk of humanity's military power is found in the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines(Adeptus Astartes)– giant, 10 foot tall, genetically-enhanced super-soldiers with world-destroying firepower and unswerving, fanatical loyalty to the Emperor of Mankind – are the most famous.
On average, they are closer to 10. Sorry, man.
You quote Wikipedia on that? Weak man. Weak. I'll go over here and mourn your loss of dignity.
Oh noes!
Interesting that someone getting mad over being wrong about the height of a space marine is lecturing me on dignity.
30015
Post by: Big-Mek-DAKA!!!
i think it are the old ones cause the old ones were snotlings (yes look in the ork codex) they also made the orks (wich are the coolest race of entire 40K i think) and the necrons so wy not the tau.
take that weird tau you muhahahaha!!!!!!!
so tha orks rule tha  
13173
Post by: Aretak
In Salamander it's referenced that Ba'ken is taller then the average space marine which means he must be closer to 11ft tall.
34612
Post by: Ledabot
I still side with the old ones (despite the fact my vote said diffrent). As Wolfed said, "If you give hints in a written fiction text, it's usually to promote the idea that it is true".
I said something just like this earlyer, though i admit my statements struture was somewhat less sound.
9000
Post by: Vargtass
Monster Rain wrote:Vargtass wrote:Monster Rain wrote:wikipedia wrote:While the bulk of humanity's military power is found in the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines(Adeptus Astartes)– giant, 10 foot tall, genetically-enhanced super-soldiers with world-destroying firepower and unswerving, fanatical loyalty to the Emperor of Mankind – are the most famous.
On average, they are closer to 10. Sorry, man.
You quote Wikipedia on that? Weak man. Weak. I'll go over here and mourn your loss of dignity.
Oh noes!
Interesting that someone getting mad over being wrong about the height of a space marine is lecturing me on dignity.
Hey, I know they are just about over an inch in height. I know not to trust Wikipedia on these kinds of things, because every nerd with an opinion can edit that damned page. Automatically Appended Next Post: Big-Mek-DAKA!!! wrote:i think it are the old ones cause the old ones were snotlings (yes look in the ork codex) they also made the orks (wich are the coolest race of entire 40K i think) and the necrons so wy not the tau.
take that weird tau you muhahahaha!!!!!!!
so tha orks rule tha
I didn't see this one earlier, but...
36786
Post by: Ulver
I'm very new to the 40K fluff, so some of you may be able to explain this, but I have a believability issue with:
DeepBeige wrote:
Ex: The Tau have advanced at an astonishing rate.
Q. How did they do that?
A. They haven't had an internal war for thousands of years and they were protected at just the ideal moment by a warp storm, a thing that doesn't often "protect" a planet, but rather starts throwing some weird chaos nonsense all over the place.
How does a race develop advanced technology, especially weapons technology, if there are no wars? War is the greatest accelerant of technological progress; if there is no need to penetrate thicker armour, there's no need to build a bigger gun.
Pael wrote:
100 years ago the car didn't exist
Yes they did, around 125 years ago I believe 
22327
Post by: Lazarus the Necrotic
maybe humans advanced like that in the "Dark ages of technology" and then when the emperor took over, he wiped everything clean, took away any threat to his power the common people could take advantage of, and eventually they were forgotten..
ever notice how everything the tau has looks the same? STC... juss sayin...
6256
Post by: yorkskargrimironklaw
Ulver wrote:I'm very new to the 40K fluff, so some of you may be able to explain this, but I have a believability issue with:
DeepBeige wrote:
Ex: The Tau have advanced at an astonishing rate.
Q. How did they do that?
A. They haven't had an internal war for thousands of years and they were protected at just the ideal moment by a warp storm, a thing that doesn't often "protect" a planet, but rather starts throwing some weird chaos nonsense all over the place.
How does a race develop advanced technology, especially weapons technology, if there are no wars? War is the greatest accelerant of technological progress; if there is no need to penetrate thicker armour, there's no need to build a bigger gun.
Pael wrote:
100 years ago the car didn't exist
the Swiss have been a neutral country for 500 years and the only thing they have made is the cuckoo clock
if the tau had 6000 years of peace and safety, they would all be hippies
Yes they did, around 125 years ago I believe
6209
Post by: odinsgrandson
Ulver wrote:I'm very new to the 40K fluff, so some of you may be able to explain this, but I have a believability issue with:
DeepBeige wrote:
Ex: The Tau have advanced at an astonishing rate.
Q. How did they do that?
A. They haven't had an internal war for thousands of years and they were protected at just the ideal moment by a warp storm, a thing that doesn't often "protect" a planet, but rather starts throwing some weird chaos nonsense all over the place.
How does a race develop advanced technology, especially weapons technology, if there are no wars? War is the greatest accelerant of technological progress; if there is no need to penetrate thicker armour, there's no need to build a bigger gun.
Yes, that is all true in the real world. I mean, come one, we developed Radars and Nuclear Power during wartime, and the Cold War is responsible for many advancements since then (most especially military technology). Then after the Cold War ended, we stopped going to the moon, and started thinking about dismantling NASA altogether.
In order to believe the 40k fluff you have to first believe at least some of the following premises:
1- Technology doesn't win wars
2- People don't notice that technology helps them out in wars
3- People don't see the need to invest in technology during wartime when it is most important to have.
4- Fascist governments don't invest in technology, especially when they're trying to take over the universe
But remember that Warhammer 40,000 is not the only fantasy setting that has this backwards idea that strife causes a complete degrading of all technology. The Battletech universe featured a group that stayed behind and fought centuries of war, and the peaceful group that did not fight all of those wars came back with superior technology and a very militaristic culture.
Now, the Tau don't fit into any of this fluff-wise. They should have had a need to invest in technology (like Tyranids, Chaos or Orks banging on the door). But still, the technological stagnation of the rest of the universe is just plain hilarious.
I mean, honestly. The way to conquer the universe is to simply take command of some small world that can be ignored by the Imperium for just long enough that you can start using the scientific method. After a while, you'll have better land weapons than the Titan Legions (a tanks is in every way superior to a walker) and a better fleet (sleeker, smaller ships or faster ships for guerilla warfare). Then you can conquer the universe one planet at a time.
34612
Post by: Ledabot
I wish they would hurry up and employ a good engener. some of the ships the tau have really need to be made more practical
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
How bout the old ones are said to be dead to protect them. JUST to have fun with this and combine them all. The c'tan are the only ones who know of the survival of the old ones. The old ones showed the c'tan some old technologie and a place to make these products.
AT THE SAME TIME the chaos army is buying into this idea of no more old ones and trys to devise a scheme with the tau. The tau goes along with it to not blow their covor and to learn how to defeat the chaos once and for all. Meanwhile the old ones are coming up with new armors and weaponss that we dont know of yet. THEY USE ALL OF THIS to try and get people to think its all luck, so when people ask they cant find any trails. The imperium needs tau (TAU SAVED THEM ONCE ALREADY FROM TYRNIDS) so they wont start anything. And any other evil force is already aginst tau. The eldar made a seceret deal with the tau to share their physco w.e in exchange for the taus weapons, but the tau decided to thell the eldar of a massive chaos attack being planned aginst them. ??????????????
Automatically Appended Next Post:
we dont know of chaos attack yet. its not in our age yet. And even though it says theres no way to defeat the chaos....thats what it sys. CHAOS ARE EVIL...THEY CAN LIE. or not ewven know thta its possible for them to die
34842
Post by: Mike Noble
I'm going with nothing. The Tau did it themselves.
Also, what is the Greater Good? Is it like diety? Or just an idea, like the unification of all races or something?
25703
Post by: juraigamer
odinsgrandson wrote: Then you can conquer the universe one planet at a time.
No no no, spread the greater good one planet at a time.
As to what the greater good is:
The Greater Good, or Tau'va (literally the "Good Greater" in the Tau Lexicon language), is the founding religio-philosophical principle of modern Tau society which holds that all sentient beings should strive to ensure the greatest good for the greatest number of beings in the galaxy. The Tau'va is based on the Tau caste system and is designed to allow for the advancement of the entire Tau society towards a more successful, prosperous and peaceful existence in the future without much of the violent conflict that marked earlier Tau history. The Greater Good was first introduced to the Tau during the Mont'au ("Death Age"), the long period of civil war fought between the different Tau cities and clans on their homeworld of T'au before the formation of the unified Tau Empire under the guidance of the Ethereal caste. It was during this time that the first Ethereals came to the other Tau and united the Tau tribes with the philosophy of the Greater Good. This concept involves the pursuit of perfect societal harmony and combines the particular strengths of each Tau caste to counter the many weaknesses and divisions their culture once possessed. Within only a few years after the Ethereals first revealed themselves, Tau culture was dominated by the pursuit of the Greater Good and the Tau Empire began its long march towards the development of advanced, starfaring technology. The philosophy of the Greater Good now guides the Tau in their attempts to conquer the rest of the galaxy and unite all the intellignt races in pursuit of the Greater Good. The philosophy forces the Tau to both desire to expand their empire for the Greater Good, and to absorb other intelligent races and their cultures into their own, which could ultimately have disastrous effects upon their ability to actually keep their newborn interstellar empire united. The ideal of the Greater Good appeals to some of the other intelligent races of the galaxy, and stranded units of the Imperial Guard are said to have surrendered themselves to the Tau and now live in the Tau Empire, where humans are known as the Gue'vesa. Such people are considered traitors and heretics by the Imperium of Man. During any conflict against other intelligent species, Tau Commanders often urge the enemy leaders to stop resisting the Tau Empire since they will be allowed to retain their own individual faiths and philosophical beliefs as long as they are compatible with the Greater Good.
34842
Post by: Mike Noble
So in a nutshell, its the unification of races thing?
34612
Post by: Ledabot
yup. the tau just want everybody to be friends and be happy. sadly, there is a thing called evil.
36786
Post by: Ulver
Ledabot wrote:yup. the tau just want everybody to be friends and be happy.
So yorkskargrimironklaw was spot on
yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:
if the tau had 6000 years of peace and safety, they would all be hippies
29522
Post by: Lord_Inquisitor
Brother Bartius wrote:There is a C'tan obviously pulling the strings in the background of the Tau.
After all how else could they advance so rapidly!
Outside influence all the way - Watch this space the next weapons the Tau develop will be remarkably like gauss weaponry.
Okay, I'm hoping this is a joke...
DeepBeige wrote:
Ex: The Tau have advanced at an astonishing rate.
Q. How did they do that?
A. They haven't had an internal war for thousands of years and they were protected at just the ideal moment by a warp storm, a thing that doesn't often "protect" a planet, but rather starts throwing some weird chaos nonsense all over the place.
Q. How has an otherwise warlike race not fought any internal wars for 6000 years (most of that time with nobody else to fight, societies turn on themselves with no outside force to unite against) and why did a warp storm suddenly appear just before an imperial extermination and not cause any "Chaotic" influence?
)
They weren't affected because they DON'T REGISTER IN THE WARP.
That's a pretty simple concept, methinks. So why did you forget it?
And if that isn't the case, somehow, perhaps Chaos is what made them want to fight and destroy each other for 6000 years.
As for the poll as a whole (ha), I'd vote elbow grease.
In my massive amount of readings in the 40k universe, the Tau seem to be most often depicted as lucky upstarts.
Also, why the hell would the Eldar mess with any part of the Tau?
Since there would pretty much always be a chance that the Tau would just turn around and try to destroy the Eldar (you know, like they tend to do with ANYONE that doesn't agree to join the Greater Good, something I'm thinking the Eldar wouldn't enjoy).
Old Ones? Yeah, they're dead.
C'tan? As has been asked before, why?
Chaos? Same as above.
The Ethereals suddenly arriving certainly is odd, and something that I'm sure will be addressed in future GW fluff.
But I very, very much doubt that literally anything discussed in this topic other than the "Elbow Grease" method is even remotely plausible in the 40k universe.
34348
Post by: Tmonster
I actually like to believe the eldar are using them to crush the imperium, just like in some story the dark eldar used an ork fleet to crush an imperial world. Either that or the found an STC from the imperium
28682
Post by: narceron
wait, the old ones are snotlings?
I'd vote scions of the emperor...yep.
Of course, I'd also vote the 4th C'tan is the hivemind, so what do I know, 
9000
Post by: Vargtass
6000 years ago we weren't really an advanced race either (simple swords of bronze was a new thing). 2000 years ago not much had changed (Swords of Iron, huzzah). 1000 years ago we had made small progress (steel swords). 500 years ago we werein the same spot as the Tau around the time the Greater Good started grinding. Today we have some quite awesome technology. Why not the Tau, who are actually unified, as a difference to us?
Does anyone have any exact time between the unification under GG and today's Tau? Because as far as I know we have no exact date so it could either be yesterday or 6000 years (in Warhammer sense) ago.
28583
Post by: Atre
Wowza this thread has been... vigorously opinionated at points.
I've always thought this was an interesting question. Of the options, Old ones, eldar and Elbow grease seem the most likely
(I discard Chaos because the little blue weirdos barely exist in the warp and there are specific statements on how they have never had a single chaos traitor. Necrons are a bit odd... I suppose they did the pariah stunt but a random nice-guy race is an odd step for them - I can just about twist things enough for the idea to be beneficial to them but I don't believe it).
Eldar are also a distant third because I recall an Eldrad quote saying that he has no idea what the deal with the tau is. But he feels curiously protective of them and thinks they may one day eclipse the achievements of even the Eldar". Kinda suggests the Eldar aren't the prime players behind the tau (assuming any exist) although meddling with the tau for eldar benefit is EXACTLY their style.
But this is all idle speculation and I do like seeing good ideas bandied about (note that this is distinct from aggression and acting like toddlers having a tantrum) so I look forward to seeing where the thread goes.
6256
Post by: yorkskargrimironklaw
ImpGuardPanzies wrote:How bout the old ones are said to be dead to protect them. JUST to have fun with this and combine them all. The c'tan are the only ones who know of the survival of the old ones. The old ones showed the c'tan some old technologie and a place to make these products.
AT THE SAME TIME the chaos army is buying into this idea of no more old ones and trys to devise a scheme with the tau. The tau goes along with it to not blow their covor and to learn how to defeat the chaos once and for all. Meanwhile the old ones are coming up with new armors and weaponss that we dont know of yet. THEY USE ALL OF THIS to try and get people to think its all luck, so when people ask they cant find any trails. The imperium needs tau (TAU SAVED THEM ONCE ALREADY FROM TYRNIDS) so they wont start anything. And any other evil force is already aginst tau. The eldar made a seceret deal with the tau to share their physco w.e in exchange for the taus weapons, but the tau decided to thell the eldar of a massive chaos attack being planned aginst them. ??????????????
Automatically Appended Next Post:
we dont know of chaos attack yet. its not in our age yet. And even though it says theres no way to defeat the chaos....thats what it sys. CHAOS ARE EVIL...THEY CAN LIE. or not ewven know thta its possible for them to die
Your joking about the Tau saving the Imperium!! The Imperium could wipe the Tau out in a day if they wanted too. The Tau only have 40 planets look in the codex and only have about the same numbers as the Eldar( a few billion ). Ghazghkull Mag Urul Thraka Waaagh or what the Imperium called the 3rd war of Armageddon would have wiped the Tau.
The only reason the Tau still live is because the Big Boys are on the other side of the galaxy fighting the Imperium
31760
Post by: DeepBeige
The only reason the Tau still live is because the Big Boys are on the other side of the galaxy fighting the Imperium
Could this be because some other force is protecting them? Why do so many people find this hard to believe.
My main thought is quite simply that unless if somebody has a plan for the Tau... then they're basically pointless. I'd like to think they were included for some reason fluff wise.
The only way I can see the Tau being able to last is if they are backed by something greater than they are, and the Old Ones seem like the most logical (and I think the coolest) choice.
From what I can tell, IF the old ones still exist in any sense (and I think it's generally a bad idea to assume that just because a race is deemed extinct in a science fiction setting that they don't still exist) then they would be the ones most benefitted by the Tau... plus modifying & empowering a race is completely their style.
27277
Post by: starhawks1
the tau are asian. that explains everything
22383
Post by: zadelistol
starhawks1 wrote:the tau are asian. that explains everything
QFT sigged!
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
My friend who plays tau said that it said that the tau saved the impirums home planet when it was under attack from tyrnids.
27829
Post by: obi-wan34
OH!!
I thought that ya meant the H.P. Lovecraft Old Ones, i.e. Culuthlu.
36426
Post by: lycanfist
Chuck Noris- answer in itself
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
They should make a chuck noris model
37127
Post by: poontangler
It is the old ones.
28261
Post by: RutgerMan
I've heard somewhere that the tau psychic powers are way the other directions than chaos. They even have 'pariah' like effects when it's about psychic powers.
yet it still could be possible. and my source could be wrong :p
the old ones, probably... yet considering the human race one of the last species influenced by them. Tau being in the stone age when they were first found by human ships.
so probably a very very late influnce or maybe humankind itself?
they saw the ships and maybe thought, hell yea why not strive for the stars.
so maybe even humans influenced them??
c'tan nah never, they only exstinguish races...
Sweat and hard work probably one of the most preferable.
28189
Post by: Priesmal
The United States as a nation is relatively young compared to others around the globe. Our "culture" is close to that of the Tau as well, assimilating peacefully when we can and forcing with military might when others are in the way of our "manifest destiny". (Note: this is not meant to become a political commentary, just noting similarities.) Technologically speaking it is hard to match the advances we have made. It isn't from some outside sources influencing the Tau, it's the "Tau" Empire itself and its practice of assimilation. America is at its best when we are embracing our internal different cultures. They are doing the same.
I voted for Chaos though because in the end Tzeentch is just crazy and convoluted like that.
Either that or they were bred as just a different flavor of food for the space bugs.
20564
Post by: Owain
Just some food for thought, gentlemen:
If the Tau hardly register a presence in the Warp, to what degree would the Chaos Gods even notice/be drawn to them? I'm gonna say it's by dint of luck, especially with regards to how their culture developed. I wouldn't be too miffed if it turned out that Eldar or Old Ones had done a little nudging, but much of it seems to be fortune.
Also, though my knowledge of Tau fluff is admittedly fuzzy, couldn't being trapped in that Warp storm have fudged the flow of time and/or had something to do with their lack of Warp presence? Also, think of how many monoplanetary empires would have had equal success had they been so fortunate.
28583
Post by: Atre
Priesmal wrote:The United States ....
Woah, be careful throwing that kind of opinion out into the internet... It's really likely to kick up a firestorm in most places. Most of your first paragraph is incredibly inflammatory to one viewpoint or another ("best when embracing different cultures" being the exception).
Sorry to go off topic - I just want to give a friendly heads-up that extremely rose-tinted geopolitical views are are not best used for an internet simile.
29723
Post by: camboyaz
^^
No it's not going ot start a flame storm, it is a excellent comparison.
20564
Post by: Owain
^^^^Agreed. You'd have to be very jingoistic to take offense to that.
A renegade group of humans may also be responsible. There are still plenty of human enclaves outside of the Imperium, and one of them may have decided to toy with a developing xenos civilization. If an Imperium unfettered by techno-superstition engineered Space Marines and invented anti-gravity and plasma technology, a sufficiently advanced splinter group similarly unfettered may have done some meddling on T'au.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
Priesmal wrote:The United States as a nation is relatively young compared to others around the globe. Our "culture" is close to that of the Tau as well, assimilating peacefully when we can and forcing with military might when others are in the way of our "manifest destiny". (Note: this is not meant to become a political commentary, just noting similarities.) Technologically speaking it is hard to match the advances we have made. It isn't from some outside sources influencing the Tau, it's the "Tau" Empire itself and its practice of assimilation. America is at its best when we are embracing our internal different cultures. They are doing the same.
I voted for Chaos though because in the end Tzeentch is just crazy and convoluted like that.
Either that or they were bred as just a different flavor of food for the space bugs.
Russia matched it. Lol, but we sold it to them, and they copied us. All the un nations coppy each other. Weird isnt it?
34612
Post by: Ledabot
ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Priesmal wrote:The United States as a nation is relatively young compared to others around the globe. Our "culture" is close to that of the Tau as well, assimilating peacefully when we can and forcing with military might when others are in the way of our "manifest destiny". (Note: this is not meant to become a political commentary, just noting similarities.) Technologically speaking it is hard to match the advances we have made. It isn't from some outside sources influencing the Tau, it's the "Tau" Empire itself and its practice of assimilation. America is at its best when we are embracing our internal different cultures. They are doing the same.
I voted for Chaos though because in the end Tzeentch is just crazy and convoluted like that.
Either that or they were bred as just a different flavor of food for the space bugs.
Russia matched it. Lol, but we sold it to them, and they copied us. All the un nations coppy each other. Weird isnt it?
If you are somehow trying to compare the tau to communest stuff. look at my sig.
18131
Post by: Papaskittels
I think they are secretly scaven that paint themselves blue like smurfs
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Papaskittels wrote:I think they are secretly scaven that paint themselves blue like smurfs
explain
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
erm i think hes referrin tothe skin colour rather than the armour however its also possibly aspersions cast against tau sanity, and anyhoo tau are fascists
21170
Post by: Klawz
Atre wrote:Priesmal wrote:The United States ....
Woah, be careful throwing that kind of opinion out into the internet... It's really likely to kick up a firestorm in most places. Most of your first paragraph is incredibly inflammatory to one viewpoint or another ("best when embracing different cultures" being the exception).
Sorry to go off topic - I just want to give a friendly heads-up that extremely rose-tinted geopolitical views are are not best used for an internet simile.
Don't worry. We're a mature group of forumers. We can handle it.
Also, isn't there a TV trope for exactly this?
37127
Post by: poontangler
Indeed.
37527
Post by: ChronoCupcake
DeepBeige wrote:I recently read through a Dakka Thread stating that the Tau obtained their technology unreasonably fast and that because of this they are illogical and (fluff wise) cheesy and overpowered. At first it just seemed like some hate at all yall Tau playas so I figured I'd just ignore it, but upon some degree of further thought I realized that it really is pretty true. It doesn't really make sense for the Tau to have advanced so rapidly, and honestly, it doesn't make much sense that they've managed to avoid any level of infighting and still have souls.
It is occasionally hinted at that the Ethereals receive their crazy mind control powers from some outside source. It is also unlikely that the Tau have just gotten too lucky to have developed such a sizeable and peaceful empire with just them and their buddies. I've heard it mentioned before that it's all possibly some elaborate scheme developed by Chaos, but I think that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I personally believe that the Tau have obtained their sudden unreasonable technological advancements and cold, logical, communist utopia with the aid and guiding of the Old Ones.
Their rise to power coincides with the return of the Necrons, the immortal enemies of the Old Ones. They have basically the same attitude towards the whole emotion thing that the Old Ones did, and they were magically protected by a warp storm for thousands of years just in time to avoid an exterminatus. Further note that warp storms rarely protect an area and instead cause some manner of chaotic sillyness.
Ahhh dude have you read the xenology book by black library they do autopsy reports deemed heresy on xeno subjects, and the one on a tau ethereal basically states that there society runs without infighting due to some kind of pheromone gland that the ethereal's possess which makes the lesser casts submit to them without question, it goes on to explain that this renders the ethereal's just as corrupt as the imperium as there isnt really any democracy there effectively subconsciously brainwashing others, and apparently some humans are susceptible to this pheromone as well. This combined with there incredibly quick technological growth / resistance to chaos / there relation to necrons smells of the old ones to me. Its probable that there another race the old ones seeded before they where wiped out to take on the necrons, perhaps even chaos at some point in the future as there pretty much bred to adhere to "the greater good" and are all but immune to warp influence.
Thoughts?
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
That is possibly the most likely post for this topic i have seen yet
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
What if the tau have slowly been evolving and saving their new found items to unleash in a massive suprise? they have been holding back every bit of it until they needed it and wanted to show the universe that they are still alive and a threat...
Mayby theres more, they just make themselfs appear 10 milleniums under what their current seceret technology is. Mayby they have weapons weve never heard of, masses of wmds that make a death strike missle look like a toothpick. Their just saving it until they can get the best use out of it, they want all the other armies to kill e.a other off some more, then theyll take over.
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
That just seems op
34168
Post by: Amaya
If anyone interfered with them it was the Eldar. I think the Eldar simply steered them in a direction and let the Tau do the work that allowed them (the Tau) to reach the tech level that they are at. Unlike the Imperium, the Tau actually research new technology instead of looking for millenia old items.
Had the Imperium bothered to advance their technology they would have easily outstripped everyone (except possibly the Eldar) and curbstomped the galaxy.
34694
Post by: Blood Raven 5th Company
1hadhq wrote:Chaos would generate more chaos worshippers, so rather unlikely as guiding hand behind them.
Who played with genetics and loved order?
Right, the old ones.
They may have deceased, but a last effort thing could happen still. Either the last of them or his/her assitants. You know the little helpers every aspiring ruler of the Galaxy has...
I'd vote for old ones / influenced by old ones.
Simply for the fact of using the warp to shield them, focusing on biology for control instead of psi/tech, creating Tau as uninformed minions still happy to serve,
placing Tau in a good starting position as their home is close to lots of other inhabitable worlds.
maybe the old ones are the ethereals???
also there wouldn'd be any worshippers if thay are being controlled be tzeenntch.
however they did get lucky with their home world with it being in a star cluster.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
maybe the old ones are the ethereals???
I like it. reminds me of the starwars series where the emperor of the republic was also leader of seperatists. Nifty idea! And logical
37882
Post by: 4TheGraeterGood
DeepBeige wrote:I recently read through a Dakka Thread stating that the Tau obtained their technology unreasonably fast and that because of this they are illogical and (fluff wise) cheesy and overpowered. At first it just seemed like some hate at all yall Tau playas so I figured I'd just ignore it, but upon some degree of further thought I realized that it really is pretty true. It doesn't really make sense for the Tau to have advanced so rapidly, and honestly, it doesn't make much sense that they've managed to avoid any level of infighting and still have souls.
It is occasionally hinted at that the Ethereals receive their crazy mind control powers from some outside source. It is also unlikely that the Tau have just gotten too lucky to have developed such a sizeable and peaceful empire with just them and their buddies. I've heard it mentioned before that it's all possibly some elaborate scheme developed by Chaos, but I think that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I personally believe that the Tau have obtained their sudden unreasonable technological advancements and cold, logical, communist utopia with the aid and guiding of the Old Ones.
Their rise to power coincides with the return of the Necrons, the immortal enemies of the Old Ones. They have basically the same attitude towards the whole emotion thing that the Old Ones did, and they were magically protected by a warp storm for thousands of years just in time to avoid an exterminatus. Further note that warp storms rarely protect an area and instead cause some manner of chaotic sillyness.
Thoughts?
I have read the entire Tau codex and it mentioned the whole "they advanced rapidly thing" it says that the tau actually adapted rapidly to where said tribe of tau were...the ones in the mountains adapted and became messengers...and then became the air caste in the future...the hunters of the plains became the fire caste...and stuff like that...and they did have in fighting...but the etherals came outta no where and talked them into peace...after they stopped fighting each other and started working together for "the greater good" they started seeing big leaps in technological advancement...if you find the tau codex online and read all of the fluff...u will understand it better...sorry i am not explaining as well as i could. lol. hope i cleared something up for you...Happy Wargaming
37127
Post by: poontangler
The codex, and other companion books (the Xenos book I believe) states that the Tau have had their biology artificially tampered with.
33151
Post by: Ultrasmurf_no_REALY
It was Tzeench as he tampers with the fates of things for his own goals and is the master of time so he could have helped them get thier tech and summoned the warp storms.
35476
Post by: Iratus Custodis
I belive the Tau's progress is all about silly evolution and silly chance of luck all designed to evolve a race as fast as possible without turning them grimdark. Though by the latest codex, it appears the Grimdark is creeping their way.
30356
Post by: Jaon
It is SO eldar. They are dying, and they were killed by the warp more or less, so they fathered the tau, and made sure they would never feel the touch of the daemonic, they would suceed where the tau failed, and use technology as powerful as the eldar had, only different.
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
"only different" everything there works except for the undying elday arrogance, they would hve given the tau the same tech as they had because of their belief in their own archeotech
37394
Post by: Goreyevisceration
well this was all very interesting to read. Perhaps they will go into the rise of the Tau empire further in the future like they did for the Horus Hersey. Maybe not now but hey who knows maybe a Horus Hersey style series of the Tau Empire and hey while we are at it an eldar which would go into much more detail how a Chaos god was formed the battles etc... Anyway i think all of the ideas on here are plausible except Chaos. Idk it just doesnt seem plausible lol. Old Ones are gone or ascended or just dont give a gak maybe a Star God? How come the Kroot and other races werent wiped out they had small civilisations before joining with the greater good. Anyway Warp taints it changes beings...like fans of fantasy the beastmen and Skaven. Perhaps being in the purview of a warp storm for so long did stuffff...Anyways maybe the eatherals are the people who were changed by chaos. But were not affected as far as i can tell
34612
Post by: Ledabot
the eatherals have feet as aposed to hoofs and they can fudge peoples minds. that is the only diffrence i can see. the warp is called the warp because it warps?
33151
Post by: Ultrasmurf_no_REALY
soo retracting the chaos theory what if the seclusion between the casts helped with the evolution and improving the inteligence of the whole species?????
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Im not quite shore how that would happen.
21148
Post by: KOS
For me Tau's are just mysterious even for Games Workshop. I went for "The Old Ones" just because I liked it, but GW is keeping the truth outside from the print just because... they don't know it either.
38014
Post by: Hartmannistic
As for technological development I think it's important to remember the fact that the Space Marine delegation (sent to investigate the then relatively unknown Tau wolrd discovered a primitive race, not even capable of creating fire) Were reassigned by the inquisition and hastly evacuated the world, leaving behind research facilities as well as a fair ammount of weaponry and vehicles. This I guess is the main reason why the Tau evolved so rapidly, discovering and eventually learning how to use some of the technology was a huge boost. As for developing spychic afinity ''Etherals'' it might simply be possible that the ability to harness psychic powers lay dormant in any sentient race. As such it's no enigma why the Tau Ethereals learned to harness such powers.
Some might argue that the very essense of the warp influences all biological evolution (not nenescessarily through any intentional act of chaos) even from it's earliest stages, and thus The tau could also simply have developed their powers through evolution.
37452
Post by: Horizon9
As much as I want to say its all their hard work, its kinda strange how.....
1) Etherals mysteriously appeared and unified the tau
2) Tau were protected from extiction via Imperium
3) They aren't affected/percieved by the warp
4) They are nigh unstoppable
Maybe some influence from the cabal?
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
Nigh unstoppable?
Tell that to a freind of mine of whom i regularly kick his sorry tau but with my chaos marines
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Tyranic Marta wrote:Nigh unstoppable?
Tell that to a freind of mine of whom i regularly kick his sorry tau but with my chaos marines
You mean Evaelc? the last game I played with you, I won. I have to admit that you have beet me more than I you though. Fluff is from a compleatly diffrent world than gameplay. Fluff can be cheezey. Gameplay is much more balanced.
37452
Post by: Horizon9
I was saying nigh unstoppable fluff-wise. The gameplay and lack of adaptability were the reasons why the tau got sold
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Horizon9 wrote:I was saying nigh unstoppable fluff-wise. The game play and lack of adaptability were the reasons why the tau got sold
Yup. very predictable innless you have you were new to playing against them
28082
Post by: Da dakka boy
I think the eldar have helped the tau because the tau cause a "serious threat to the imperial of men" (quote from the 40K wiki) and the eldar absolutely hate the imperial
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
Ok lets get this right, every single codex (bar perhaps nids) is perfectly centred on lauding the "awsomely powerful" points of each faction, what they dont do is point out the weakness's of each race, in the tau there are quite a few weakness's, the main one is their complete dependability on ethereals, without them theyre screwed, and ethereals have the lovely habit of being where the fighting is rather thick
39961
Post by: te11ah
I think that GW wanted to have a cool technologically advanced race so they thought up the Tau and gave em lots of cool high tech weapons. I went with other, GW.
37886
Post by: Goddard
I also find it curious that just as the Ultramarines were about to stomp their little empire into dust they were recalled to fight elsewhere. COINCIDENCE? Possibly.
21940
Post by: nels1031
I voted Old Ones, with a caveat that a faction of eldar played a part and elbow grease has seen them carry through on the investment placed on them.
Black Library's thoroughly excellent "Xenology" background book heavily implies an intelligent and consistent design to all of the major sentient xenos races in the 40k galaxy (even belief systems are similair, barring da Orkz).
I don't believe its the chaos gods because do they truly create anything? To my understanding, they just warp or destroy. I don't believe it could be the C'tan because:
Plus, in the Tyranid codex, there is a tiny mention of Necrons wiping out a Tau world after destroying the Tyranid attackers. The Necrons seem to have as much disdain for the Tau as they do for all living things.
Also, in the novel Legion:
I personally think all evidence(that I've read) points to Old One and/or Eldar interference. We'll probably never get a solid answer, unfortunately. GW loves to tie up their lore in webs. Easier to retcon I guess, also gets the fans discussing their stuff, which is good.
21696
Post by: sluggaslugga
the Imperium... I'm serious
34779
Post by: shadeyaces
I think the the chaos gods are planning something in the way that Tzeentch would do.
40338
Post by: Sneaky_Chicken_sal
The creators of Tau (GW) are guiding them; in order to take your money for the greater good!
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
(I think the the chaos gods are planning something in the way that Tzeentch would do.) woooo someone whos thinkin like me go shadeyaces
2326
Post by: shasolenzabi
Actually, based on the very outset, I have read over and over the "fluff" and my conclusion is that the Old ones were protecting the Tau until they could defend themselves. 1)The Old ones are manipulators of genetics, and the codex has mentions from a Biologos that his samples show signs of such.
2)The Old Ones could manipulate the warp that was not tainted with chaos at will and make such storms for their defense, and warp space near the Tau was still"pure" at that time. The colony fleet was crewed by skilled spacers and navigators who had ridden out storms and other problems before, there should have been a few vessels intact, but all were wiped out.
3) Starship wreck found by the Tau. May have been left there to let them understand fast travel in space.
4)Pollution of the warp, the Old Ones learned lessons with making psyker races and the oncoming of the Enslavers as well as the pollution of the warp, which limited their abilities with it. Hence Tau and lack of Psykers.
21696
Post by: sluggaslugga
When the Imperium found the tau, they were just a savage tribe. After the humans left, the Tau technology evolved rapidly. I'm guessing that the Tau studied human technology left on their planet and learned to control the "machine spirit"
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
this is a very very good point, me thinks you have found a good theory to run with for a while
29046
Post by: ghargatuloth
GLORY BE TO CHAOS!
37394
Post by: Goreyevisceration
Perhaps the Ethereals are simply the Tau's version of the Primarchs or the Emperor (false) spontaneously powerful beings that are the superheros of their race. Who's vive la revolution Greater Good rhetoric appealed to their race and united the world under the Greater good Banner (communist/socilaist) ideal. Anyone else notice the historical refrences throught history? The Imperial gaurd WWI era armour, Commisars (Russian motivarors) Inquistion?(good times) Crusades, Custodes (waffen SS) Emporer(hitler: wanted death to anyone who was diffrent) to name a few. Surely the Tau are the Communist revolution of the 41st mill ethereals are the Lennins Trotskies who have if you will the so called Russian "super men capabilities"
sorry for the jumbled test but its four thirty in the am. doesnt explain warp storm but maybe it represents the climatic event that pisses of the lower classes to follow the etherals? haa thoughts? or am i just a crazed college student trying to connect his history major to his hobby 
2326
Post by: shasolenzabi
shasolenzabi wrote:Actually, based on the very outset, I have read over and over the "fluff" and my conclusion is that the Old ones were protecting the Tau until they could defend themselves. 1)The Old ones are manipulators of genetics, and the codex has mentions from a Biologos that his samples show signs of such.
2)The Old Ones could manipulate the warp that was not tainted with chaos at will and make such storms for their defense, and warp space near the Tau was still"pure" at that time. The colony fleet was crewed by skilled spacers and navigators who had ridden out storms and other problems before, there should have been a few vessels intact, but all were wiped out.
3) Starship wreck found by the Tau. May have been left there to let them understand fast travel in space.
4)Pollution of the warp, the Old Ones learned lessons with making psyker races and the oncoming of the Enslavers as well as the pollution of the warp, which limited their abilities with it. Hence Tau and lack of Psykers.
This is what happened, based on the fluff I poured over.
37394
Post by: Goreyevisceration
ooo very interesting it seems we have the best theory right here. I like this theory a lot haa. Thankyou
33018
Post by: medabee
Its the Old Ones.
2326
Post by: shasolenzabi
Goreyevisceration wrote:ooo very interesting it seems we have the best theory right here. I like this theory a lot haa. Thankyou
Yes, thank you! Automatically Appended Next Post: Its the Old Ones.
We agree
40698
Post by: An0maly1
purplefood wrote:Considering that all the Old Ones are dead...
Also Chaos has had more convoluted plans in the past.
And the Etherals are hinted at having some kind of control over the Tau but i'm not sure if there are hints at them being from an outside source.
More likely the Tau did it all through hard work and luck as much as it pains me to admit (I don't like them)
Out of all the other reasons i would choose Chaos gods.
But what of the lack of mutations and what not? As well as the other usual indicators of the taint of chaos?
People become corrupted by chaos more often then not through selfish means, they want power and strength, etc...
The whole ideology of the tau empire is to dispell such feelings.
40871
Post by: samusaran253
Elbow Grease (IE no supernatural influence, just hard work and chance)
21696
Post by: sluggaslugga
THE IMPERIUM GOD -Blam!- IT!!!
when the Imperium discovered the tau empire, they left equipment on the planet...
33018
Post by: medabee
sluggaslugga wrote:THE IMPERIUM GOD -Blam!- IT!!!
when the Imperium discovered the tau empire, they left equipment on the planet...
:O It was all part of the plan.
2326
Post by: shasolenzabi
The old ones merely went to hide, even the Necron Codex makes mention of it.
The Old ones that are left would not be supernatural, but a guiding hand of a more advanced species helping a less advanced one.
The only possible thing of the Imperium left to find was the wrecked starship the Tau found on their moon, left there after all the crew were wiped out by the warp-storm the Old ones used to protect the Tau, and why the Tau are striving to use logic instead of emotional overreactions.
The rest is the Tau working on their own now that they have "Grown up" hence why the storm abated and they are now roaming about.
38415
Post by: tantan628
Even if the old ones have died, I like to think that they have helped the tau. It just seems a bit of a coincidence that they expand extremely rapidly from out of nowhere just as the necorns begin to rise again.
My idea is that there may be just one old one left or possibly they have evolved beyond physical form. Either way, if it's one it's too risky for him to show himself and obviously they can't directly help if beyond physical form. However, the eldar know about the old ones and were around at the same time for a bit (I think, correct me if wrong) and the eldar can contact spirits so what if the eldar have been in contact with the last old one through soulstones and stuff while he hides. The eldar realise they are a dieing race and that they cannot defeat the necrons, especially the c'tan, so when the old ones in non-physical form created the perfect conditions for the tau to be non-over-emotional and completely logical, they also contacted the eldar and told them to help foster this new race as they would take the place of the most technolligically advanced race (currently held by the eldar) once the eldar had all passed from this universe. Therefore, the tau would be able to allow the 'good' to join them and live peacefully and could exterminate the others. So, the eldar although they have gone to war with the tau in the past are working for the greater good of the tau overall (they might go to war as they're not just going to give up craftworlds and might need the tau to change direction as they are headed along the wrong path).
The eldar don't announce this need to nurture the tau as the imperium wouldn't understand why the tau were needed to destroy the necrons, they could do it themselves. Also, it would make them one hell of a target, just imagine if the necrons and c'tan knew the old ones were assisting the tau, there would be all out attacks on every front. The imperium would also attack since this is solid proof that the tau will become a very serious, perhaps their worst threat if not cut off and stopped now. Also, I imagine Slaanesh at least would attack, get rid of the eldars last hope at survival, obliterate them morally.
So, it is the old ones guiding the tau while in spirit form or in hiding due to depleted numbers with the help of the eldar where needed, all to make sure that the c'tan can never rise to their full power again as with no, or few old ones left there would be nobody left powerful enough to stop them this time.
21696
Post by: sluggaslugga
tantan628 wrote:Even if the old ones have died, I like to think that they have helped the tau. It just seems a bit of a coincidence that they expand extremely rapidly from out of nowhere just as the necorns begin to rise again.
My idea is that there may be just one old one left or possibly they have evolved beyond physical form. Either way, if it's one it's too risky for him to show himself and obviously they can't directly help if beyond physical form. However, the eldar know about the old ones and were around at the same time for a bit (I think, correct me if wrong) and the eldar can contact spirits so what if the eldar have been in contact with the last old one through soulstones and stuff while he hides. The eldar realise they are a dieing race and that they cannot defeat the necrons, especially the c'tan, so when the old ones in non-physical form created the perfect conditions for the tau to be non-over-emotional and completely logical, they also contacted the eldar and told them to help foster this new race as they would take the place of the most technolligically advanced race (currently held by the eldar) once the eldar had all passed from this universe. Therefore, the tau would be able to allow the 'good' to join them and live peacefully and could exterminate the others. So, the eldar although they have gone to war with the tau in the past are working for the greater good of the tau overall (they might go to war as they're not just going to give up craftworlds and might need the tau to change direction as they are headed along the wrong path).
The eldar don't announce this need to nurture the tau as the imperium wouldn't understand why the tau were needed to destroy the necrons, they could do it themselves. Also, it would make them one hell of a target, just imagine if the necrons and c'tan knew the old ones were assisting the tau, there would be all out attacks on every front. The imperium would also attack since this is solid proof that the tau will become a very serious, perhaps their worst threat if not cut off and stopped now. Also, I imagine Slaanesh at least would attack, get rid of the eldars last hope at survival, obliterate them morally.
So, it is the old ones guiding the tau while in spirit form or in hiding due to depleted numbers with the help of the eldar where needed, all to make sure that the c'tan can never rise to their full power again as with no, or few old ones left there would be nobody left powerful enough to stop them this time.
What if some Techpriests of Mars are on the planet, and the Ethereals are the representatives of these technologically advanced Techpriests. (obviously the Techpriests have better technology than the ones in the Imperiums service, since the Imperium is very strict about these things.)
19406
Post by: ZeroWolf
I actually think the Tau self evolved into what they are today.
The only "Outside" intervention being the warp storms that stranded the planet. Some of you seem to think or at least believe that there was a HUGE storm surrounding the planet. But remember, any warp storm would have been contained in the immaterium, which can only be seen by a ship entering warp space, or a tear ie the eye of terror. The warp storm would (in theory) cut off the planet from warp travel, but not travel from craft traveling at sublight speeds
Granted, this storm may have caused atmospheric turbulence or what have you, but if it started causing odd ball events, superstition would run rampant, which would eventually lead to science which leads to technological booms.
We know imperials found the planet, and its highly plausible they left some things behind, so the Tau, as they evolved, found technology, found ways to incorporate it or improve upon it and there you go.
Its not all unlike human history. After WW2 ended, the US and Russia launched the biggest technological expansion we've seen. Just think, before the invention of the rocket and manned space flight, less than sixty years earlier, people were flying wooden aircraft covered in cloth ten feet off the ground in North Carolina.
its entirely plausible that a race, dedicated to exploration and colonisation, with a drive to succeed, could accomplish all the things that the Tau have in a short span of time. If they incorporated all the alien tech they could find or come across, think of how fast a race could potentially grow. Granted, it causes a lot of issues leaping from one technology to another, but it can be done, especially if EVERYONE is behind it.
42370
Post by: Rampage
At the risk of me sounding extremely stupid. Although the old ones are dead they created many races before they were all killed, the Eldar, the Krork and the Jokaero are among them but many are not mentioned. This could be nothing more than wishful thinking but it seems plausable that they created another race that may have now become involved with the Tau and helped to develop their technology, although the Eldar seems unlikely.
Looking at the Tau technology, you see skimmers, stealth and speed, which is similar to the technology used by the Eldar, which would make sense if they both had a siimilar reason behind the development of their technology, although don't quote me on this because the Krork technology could not be more different.
If this seems a bit too farfetched, elbow grease, the C'tan and Chaos are just too evil.
31819
Post by: ImpGuardPanzies
I love how this is like 7 months old and were still commenting. XD
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I like where ZeroWOlf is taking this. Is it also possible that the warp storm would spit things out, or tear them up and hurl them back at the planet? also for the tau to find...say an eldar ship or something? idk most of the fluff so sorry if im way off on this storm thing.
37394
Post by: Goreyevisceration
Its a great questionn really makes you thinkkk
39995
Post by: Maniac_nmt
DeepBeige wrote:I recently read through a Dakka Thread stating that the Tau obtained their technology unreasonably fast and that because of this they are illogical and (fluff wise) cheesy and overpowered. At first it just seemed like some hate at all yall Tau playas so I figured I'd just ignore it, but upon some degree of further thought I realized that it really is pretty true. It doesn't really make sense for the Tau to have advanced so rapidly, and honestly, it doesn't make much sense that they've managed to avoid any level of infighting and still have souls.
It is occasionally hinted at that the Ethereals receive their crazy mind control powers from some outside source. It is also unlikely that the Tau have just gotten too lucky to have developed such a sizeable and peaceful empire with just them and their buddies. I've heard it mentioned before that it's all possibly some elaborate scheme developed by Chaos, but I think that's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
I personally believe that the Tau have obtained their sudden unreasonable technological advancements and cold, logical, communist utopia with the aid and guiding of the Old Ones.
Their rise to power coincides with the return of the Necrons, the immortal enemies of the Old Ones. They have basically the same attitude towards the whole emotion thing that the Old Ones did, and they were magically protected by a warp storm for thousands of years just in time to avoid an exterminatus. Further note that warp storms rarely protect an area and instead cause some manner of chaotic sillyness.
Thoughts?
Check their timeline again. They aren't horrifically advanced beyond modern technology (railguns are in design now, or already exist today depending on who you listen to, the US military is looking at combat suits which boost strength and mobility, we have various drones now, etc) and in our historical timeline we've only got a roughly similar time on the books between 'primitive' and space flight. There is 0 reason outside of imperial mindset to assume the Tau had outside help (and that only because the Imperium actively stops advancement in a proper manner due to GW fluff reasons).
Second, the Ethereals don't have super crazy mind control. Even the Tau dex talks about times they have been questioned or ignored.
36276
Post by: Zweischneid
Well.
1. Many of the themes running in the Tau are (IMO) a riff of Asimov. The trade-offs between individuality/freedom and, quote, "the greater good" of society are a constant in his book, notably his robot stories but, perhaps more importantly here, his Foundation Series.
2. The Foundation Series starts on the premise of a 12,000-year-old Galactic Empire that gives the appearance of stability, yet beneath this façade it is suffering a slow decay.
3. The namegiving foundation and second foundation are inclusive Empires artificially created to mitigate the collateral damage of the big Galactic Empires inevitable/foretold collapse.
As such, I always read the manipulation behind the Tau Empires evolution (close to the Empire, conveniently hidden by Warp Storms, artificially accelerated technological evolution, sudden appareance of the Etheral out of "a night sky with lights and flashes" seems conveniently close to a 40K "1000-year-plan"; e.g. an artificially created Empire, inclusive of foreign species and races, emphasing "the greater good" over individualism, as an anchor to mitigate/shorten the chaos and "age of darkness" after the Imperium of Man's probably/foretold/inevitable collapse.
Thus, it seems logical that a race/player with the ability of precognition/farsight is behind the manipulation of the Tau into a space-faring civilization. Likely candidates would be either the Eldar or a faction within the Imperium itself. While the Eldar may not like the IoM, it's conceivable that they would think the galaxy-wide chaos of the Imperiums Collapse as not a good thing either.
Given the size of the IoM, there are likely more than one "Tau Empire" (meaning artificially accelerated "back-up" civilizations) around its borders.
Largely my take on it.
18690
Post by: Jimsolo
I personally think the progression of Tau technology is not unreasonable. In point of fact, given the 6000 year timetable from the mastery of simple tools to their current level, it is not unreasonable to assume they developed only a bit faster than humans. And if we had had a group of leaders who were capable of population-wide mind control come around in the Dark Ages, we would probably have advanced much faster in the ensuing 700 or so years.
That being said, I think the Ethereals are the real power behind the Tau ascension. If some kind of targeted attack against them were to be made, removing them and the genetic possibility of more of them, the Tau would be pretty hosed.
Again, just my opinion.
34885
Post by: Tyranic Marta
got to agree with the last poster, +10
2326
Post by: shasolenzabi
The old ones merely went to hide, even the Necron Codex makes mention of it.
The Old ones that are left would not be supernatural, but a guiding hand of a more advanced species helping a less advanced one.
The only possible thing of the Imperium left to find was the wrecked starship the Tau found on their moon, left there after all the crew were wiped out by the warp-storm the Old ones used to protect the Tau, and why the Tau are striving to use logic instead of emotional overreactions.
The rest is the Tau working on their own now that they have "Grown up" hence why the storm abated and they are now roaming about.
Because GW never closes off a possibbility, the Necron 'dex said that the civilization,. not the race of the Old Ones died out, the rest hid from the Enslavers. I actually poured over and researched every bit of info I could regarding the Tau, that was how much I immersed myself into the concept. Eldar were used to get a pheromone emitting gland so thet the Old Ones could make the Ethereals, to help calm the Tau down otherwise the warfare would have killed off the Tau, they also made the long lasting warp storms that protected the Tau for so long. Other than the DNA changes, the Tau tech developed along the lines the Tau figured worked best for them
45291
Post by: Shooms
I never really considered any other possibility other than good old elbow grease on the Tau's part, that and the fact they were secluded by a raging and long lasting warpstorm.
But after reading through this thread I am utterly convinced that the Tau were more of another "Zoo" type project of the Old Ones. Kind of a test to see what would happen If Greater Good directed/pheromone controlled race were left undisturbed for thousands of years.
36940
Post by: Anvildude
Unreasonably fast? Like, going from "If Man were meant to fly, God would have given him Wings" to "Huston, the Eagle has landed" in the space of a century? Like computers getting twice as fast, and half as large, every year for over two decades?
The only 'unreasonably fast' part about the Tau is how they were able to colonize so many planets in different star systems so quickly- and that's only if there isn't some sort of Tau tech for near-or-faster than lightspeed communication, which there probably is.
2326
Post by: shasolenzabi
@Shooms: Oh and the exclusion of psyker ability to avoid losing the warp bending powers of the Old Ones that remain as they do not play with tainted Warp so the Old Ones stay away from the E.o.T.
@Anvildude: Their old fluff was that they used a series of waystations and fast couriers to deliver messages, like a space faring version of "Pony Express" But I do see Tau necessity leading them to develop a hyperwave or subspace comms system that they can use in lieu of the Psykers the Imperium uses.
25235
Post by: xGhost4000x
Elbow Grease all the way. But if GW has to choose a twist for the Tau make it the Old Ones.
43515
Post by: supremeoverlordVECT
Gretchin....believe me...gretchin
40392
Post by: thenoobbomb
No, its Mekboys.
3802
Post by: chromedog
The eldar using the Q'orl to manipulate the tau (from Xenology) is something NOT corroborated from any other source.
Despite the fact they also drew FEET on the Tau corpse, instead of the hooves they are supposed to have.
Xenology is at best, a doubtful hypothesis (unsupported).
47386
Post by: tadhg546
Ledabot wrote:the eatherals have feet as aposed to hoofs and they can fudge peoples minds. that is the only diffrence i can see. the warp is called the warp because it warps?
I wasnt aware they had feet. based on this is it possible that the DNA of Tau is mixed with humans or eldar? thus giving them the psychic edge they would need to control the rest of their race?. But as for the OP question i would probably say old ones or eldar. for one i dont believe chaos would do anything to help a race so able to defeat them , unless it was there intention that the ethereals would be corrupt and keep the tau in the dark ages. i dont think it can be the c`tan, just for the fact that they are so inherently evil. and none of the other races strike me as being able to do the job. as for elbow grease, it would have been feasible if not for the weird arrival of the ethereals.
43795
Post by: danesk
Well, after looking in this thread and then some fluff, I'm more convinced that the old ones did it. There's many good points to eldar being the guilty and even a few to C'tan.
But the old ones, well, several times several people mentioned that it was never mentioned that they were wiped out, and that some (or many) of them ascended.
Imo, this gives us two alternatives (just go with me on this old ones theory for a second):
1. Some of the survivors got their hands on some tau and modified their genes. I mean, we do it today even though it's not that complicated, but give us another couple of thousand years and the tech to that well then... It's not impossible.
2. If they ascended, then they could, very theoretically, take control or change the mind of a tau. I mean, I don't know what is possible once you have ascended, so I wouldn't discard that theory. Until proven wrong, of course!
And then we actually got a third option:
3. The tau-race is older than 6000 years. The peace (as far as I understand) has lastet that long. What says that the didn't create them from scratch, so to speak, all that time ago?
Less plausible, I agree, because then their race would be oooold. But still; they were violent until the etherals came along. How bloody wars? How long lasting? In war you tend to FINISH technology and bring it to use faster. The nuclear and radar research had been going on for some years when WW2 started, but it was then leaders saw the pros. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, most advancements during WW2 was improvements.
But during the Cold War we saw a lot of new techs. My dime is that it's the threat of war that creates new technology, and war that makes it perfect.
And well, as many said, we have developed our technology pretty fast in the last 100 years, but there's still a lot of things we don't know anything about and no mather how high-tech they seem for us now, 100 years after their discovery the first models will be primitive. Just look at cars today and 100 years ago. Then take a guess on how the cars in 100 years will look.
So that's that. There's probably a few holes in my theory, but it's a little late and it's been a heavy day.
And a second-to-late-realisation on the tech: In some books (firewarrior and chiapas cain for example) their weapons is described to be firing plasma rounds. And in a previous post there was a mention of the tau finding a wrecked alien ship. Well, is it that impossible that it was an imperial ship with some plasma weapons on it that the tau reversed-enginered?
NOW I'm done.
38678
Post by: Blackhoof
think about it, look at all the luck and good fortune that have befallen the tau:
-a warpstorm destroys the imperial fleet sent to wipe them out
-a new group of highly influential and potentially mind-controlling/influencing beings appear (ethereals) just as the tau are about to wipe themselves out with war
-they find a crashed warp-capable ship just as they are experimenting with FTL travel.
-the tyranids and other threats draw away the Imperium from finishing the Damocles Crusade and wiping out the tau
all this points to either the eldar or perhaps an old one in hiding influencing and protecting the tau to perhaps use as a weapon. and we all know thta the eldar have a penchant for making complicated plans thousands of years in advance to accomplish some mystery goal
23558
Post by: zedmeister
My view. In the recent era, we had the Eldar empire running the galaxy. As stated in the backstory, the Eldar visited Earth and noted the primates and primitives swinging through the trees and instead of terraforming they left them be.
Through the ages Humans managed to expand and carve out an Empire through use of technology (STCs) and managed to expand rapidly. After some time the Eldar empire fell leading to the Age of Strife.
Now we have the Eldar being a fading power, the Imperium running the galaxy. They visit the Tau worlds. They note the primitives chucking spears at each other and mark the world for possible colonisation and forget about them. Some time later, the Tau set up a little pocket Empire and begin to use advanced tech to carve out a niche.
Seems even in 40k, things run in circles. You can almost imagine the future - the Imperium falls, Humans become a fading power, the Tau the dominant force. They visit a world with primitives and in their belief note to return when they have space flight so they can welcome them to the greater good. They return centuries later to a world. They discover a pocket Empire with advanced tech who see's through the greater good ruse/decide to run things themselves/whatever and the cycle begins again!
38678
Post by: Blackhoof
interesting parallel you draw there....
37821
Post by: Zalmout
The reason why the Tau got so advanced so quick is because the main planet where they came from was sucked into a warp storm, and once it got out of the warp storm a new empire emerged. As we know stuff happens differently in the warp, so go ahead and use your imagination with what happened while they were in the warp.
38678
Post by: Blackhoof
im pretty sure that the Tau would notice being sucked into the warp, even as primitives.
the very ground becoming blood hordes of daemons bursting out of your face is a pretty good hint that you arent in kansas anymore.
43553
Post by: Sharkvictim
So Tau on average are shorter than most other races. There was another short race out there.
Think about it.
Let me spell it out...
s-q-U-A-T.
42979
Post by: Dual Face
I had never given it much thought, I always just went went with the "freak warp storm" idea, which does make sense to me. I remember reading in fluff that time in the warp is different from time in our realm, and the tau have no psychic abilities which means that they cannot be possessed by chaos. From what I said chaos MAY have had a hand in it (warp storm)
I don't know what to say about the C'tan, they already have the necrons so what do they need the Tau for?
I like the idea of the old ones having some sort of hand in this
I'l stick to the "elbow grease" theory
nothing to say about eldar
36940
Post by: Anvildude
Maybe the Tau are the Old Ones. They decide to go somewhere they won't be competing with the other races, and so figure out a way to travel back in time- they then go on to create the rest of the races, for whatever reason.
42551
Post by: gh05tdemon
I thought it said somewhere that eldar took a interstate in the tau from the start due to there lack of conection with the warp seeing them as the saviors that humanity wasn't.(don't have a source but it may be in codex) Automatically Appended Next Post: Anvildude wrote:Maybe the Tau are the Old Ones. They decide to go somewhere they won't be competing with the other races, and so figure out a way to travel back in time- they then go on to create the rest of the races, for whatever reason.
Old ones are more reptilian but with rapid evolution it is possible.
49382
Post by: StringBassKnight
With the new Necron fluff, it could be interpreted as C'tan shards who have not yet been captured getting revenge...
37680
Post by: Captain Destructo
maybe the Tau are Japanese-Robot-Alien-Space-Communists.
16379
Post by: baneofmorgoth
...wow, this thread has gone waaaaay too far. It's a game, people. Get girlfriends
38721
Post by: Chaos Emperor
I think the C'Tan, as they gave the necrontyr the technology needed, and with the recent Fluff change, the C'Tan would want to find a way to get back at the Necrons for destroying them. Maybe the Ethereals have a few C'Tan Shards, such as the C'Tan that gave the Necrontyr their tech.
Or possiblly the old ones are helping them.
Either way the Ethereals have something to hide, suddenly coming out of some mountains and everyone stopping fighting and such..
25554
Post by: redbeast001
From what I know, the Tau was descoved my a Imperial Colony Probe, they found the local inhabitants a canabilistic and tribal. A fleet of colony ships arrived 2,000 years later finding that the aliens have evolved incredibly fast. The Imperial fleet was destroyed within seconds of entering the Tau home sector. Tau expanded, incorperating different species for the Greater Good.
I guess its a good time to mention that Tau are pyskic mute, and during the 2,000 years they had a huge warp storm cover the entire planet. Etherals i don't know much about them only that they control Tau with powerful sent glands.
I voted Old Ones
34612
Post by: Ledabot
Captain Destructo wrote:maybe the Tau are Japanese-Robot-Alien-Space-Communists.
read my sig
baneofmorgoth wrote:...wow, this thread has gone waaaaay too far. It's a game, people. Get girlfriends
I would have one, if i felt I could servive the experince....
52769
Post by: loreweaver
My vote would be the C'Tan or Necrons, due to the similarity in look and function of O'Shava's power weapon and a Warscythe.
47418
Post by: Adrian Fue Fue
All this fluff talk.
Ha ha ha ha, I just go with Chaos...
Blood Gods want more blood, More races and agendas the more they have.... AKA more blood.
Salamanders were made from Chaos too.... More guys with guns for killing and dieing..... Yay
59849
Post by: DaveyJones
if it is a chaos plan though the only chaos god to have such convoluted plans as to create a warp resistant race for their own ideals would be tzeentch.
i would be surprised though looking at the eldar background if they didnt have a hand in helping the tau empire be as successful as it is (note i did not say create the tau). As the imperium of man starts to crumble they are going to need a new "cannon fodder" race to redirect invasions towards.
51715
Post by: YELLOWBLADES
It can't be eldar because if it was the eldar would directly use the tau empire to protect their race from extinction
I can't decide: Chaos, C'Tan or just hard work
44069
Post by: p_gray99
There are so many threads on this... for example, here. I'd say probably the last old one as none of the others would make a race in that way: Chaos would make them psykers so that they were controlable, or at least make them evil in some way. The C'tan had their own race already in old fluff, and in new fluff don't have the power. If the eldar had the power to create a new race they'd use that power saving their own instead.
59849
Post by: DaveyJones
It can't be eldar because if it was the eldar would directly use the tau empire to protect their race from extinction
if you read some of the eldar fluff again, it would make little sense in the long run, and eldar think in the very long run, for them to put a potential 'sheild' in harms way when it is so comparatively weak,(the amount of the galaxy the tau own is positively miniscule) they would want to let it grow a lot more before they started serioiusly redirecting armies there.
i'd also disagree with them using the tau as a direct sheild. if you look at the farseer fluff the way their redirection seems to work is, if you remember the often quoted example for chaos theory (a butterfly flapping its wings in X could potentialy cause hurricanes thousands of miles away ) it seems to me what the eldar would do is change the flight path of the butterfly so the hurricane happens in a different place, not many people fight in front of their direct sheilds.
im not saying the eldar created the tau at all, im merely saying it would make little sense at this stage of there development for them not to do small things to support them.
62361
Post by: JazzGB
Mr Sinister did it
41120
Post by: OmegaStriker
I actually made a post about this very thing a long while back on another site. Let me see if I can find it......
OmegaStriker wrote:
I would like to open by saying that this discussion is very informative, and awesome.
However, to answer a question that seems to crop up every few posts, I have a theory about the warp storm that prevented the splattening of the Tau before they even got of the ground, and some other things that may be explained. However, my fluff knowledge for Chaos and Tau are both lacking, so if I am way off base here, someone point me in the right direction.
My theory actually takes a closer look at Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons and a contender for the "Hates Just About Everything the Most" championship title. Let me see if I have my facts straight...
1. Magnus, due to seriously poor decision making skills by his brothers and father, hates the Imperium with a passion. He hates his father, the Emps, for taking away his favorite toy, i.e. psychic powers. He hates his younger (older?) brother Leman Russ for killing most of his legion and burning his homeworld, Prospero. Since the Imperium of Man is the greatest triumph of the Emperor, and that disgusting snot Russ is involved, too, Magnus wants the Imperium to go away.
2. Magnus, due to some conniving and treacherous moves by his other family, hates Chaos with a passion. He hates his brother Horus because Horus is pretty much directly responsible for his legion being destroyed and Magnus being where he is now. Kurze, Purtabo, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, and Mortarion are all complete jerks to him. Not only did his family kill his children, but he got stuck with the crappy side of the family after the split. As I understand, Magnus got along more with the loyalist primarchs than the complete tools he is stuck with now. Apharius/Omegon seems okay, but with the Alpha Legion's primarch, you can't be sure. Magnus did not want to be stuck on an ugly planet with terrible neighbors and have a demon in his body, but that is where he is. So there is a lot of hate to Chaos.
3. Magnus is an incredibly potent human psyker (second only to the Emperor). He has started warp storms of a minor nature before (he started one when fighting Russ on Purtabo, a side effect of being really really mad). He can see very far into the future, can change small details half a galaxy away, can communicate with anyone with enough psyker power anywhere in the galaxy, can open up tunnels through the warp (like teleporting, but across much greater distances), and is an incredible scientist.
4. Magnus sits at the top of a tower that is an amplifier for psychic power, doing something that takes up/radiates huge psychic signatures, but is so far from the planet of the sorcerers that none of his remaining legion can figure it out. He has very little to do with the day to day running of his legion, and instead concentrates very hard on....something....
Okay, so with those things established, I would like to propose a few theories to fill in the blanks. I think that Magnus is trying to engineer the downfall of everyone he hates (coincidence: they are all human or demons!). Although there are many ways to go about a galactic double-genocide, the method that would be the most complete and effective would be to create something that fills the niches that those animals/plants/demons occupy. Case in point: Invasive species on earth today. Take a look it over at Wikipedia. By introducing a "foreign species", and with enough time, and avoiding the "restoration efforts" of the Imperium, he can destroy (or at least humiliatingly neuter) mankind, killing the Imperium AND the demons (human emotion is their food source, yes?) Thus, double galactic genocide, with the "invasive species" being the Tau.
The thing that seals it for me is the fact that the Tau lack everything Magnus hates. There are no power squabblings, no family dramas, no overgrown sense of self. The Tau are exactly what an extremely cynical humanity-hater would create to take their place. They take the best of humanity, things like honor, community, order, the creative spark, etc. and leave out things like vice, laziness, psyker powers (a horrible talking point with Magnus, after all it's put him through), etc.
The biggest weakness for my theory is that is requires Magnus to stay focused for thousands of years without interruption. He is very angry at this point, and slowly but surely wiping humanity (or at least all vestiges of the Emperor) from the galaxy may not be the thing he has in mind. Not to mention everything that comes after the numbered points is complete speculation.
So, what do you all think?
62361
Post by: JazzGB
OmegaStriker wrote:I actually made a post about this very thing a long while back on another site. Let me see if I can find it......
OmegaStriker wrote:
I would like to open by saying that this discussion is very informative, and awesome.
However, to answer a question that seems to crop up every few posts, I have a theory about the warp storm that prevented the splattening of the Tau before they even got of the ground, and some other things that may be explained. However, my fluff knowledge for Chaos and Tau are both lacking, so if I am way off base here, someone point me in the right direction.
My theory actually takes a closer look at Magnus the Red, Primarch of the Thousand Sons and a contender for the "Hates Just About Everything the Most" championship title. Let me see if I have my facts straight...
1. Magnus, due to seriously poor decision making skills by his brothers and father, hates the Imperium with a passion. He hates his father, the Emps, for taking away his favorite toy, i.e. psychic powers. He hates his younger (older?) brother Leman Russ for killing most of his legion and burning his homeworld, Prospero. Since the Imperium of Man is the greatest triumph of the Emperor, and that disgusting snot Russ is involved, too, Magnus wants the Imperium to go away.
2. Magnus, due to some conniving and treacherous moves by his other family, hates Chaos with a passion. He hates his brother Horus because Horus is pretty much directly responsible for his legion being destroyed and Magnus being where he is now. Kurze, Purtabo, Angron, Fulgrim, Lorgar, and Mortarion are all complete jerks to him. Not only did his family kill his children, but he got stuck with the crappy side of the family after the split. As I understand, Magnus got along more with the loyalist primarchs than the complete tools he is stuck with now. Apharius/Omegon seems okay, but with the Alpha Legion's primarch, you can't be sure. Magnus did not want to be stuck on an ugly planet with terrible neighbors and have a demon in his body, but that is where he is. So there is a lot of hate to Chaos.
3. Magnus is an incredibly potent human psyker (second only to the Emperor). He has started warp storms of a minor nature before (he started one when fighting Russ on Purtabo, a side effect of being really really mad). He can see very far into the future, can change small details half a galaxy away, can communicate with anyone with enough psyker power anywhere in the galaxy, can open up tunnels through the warp (like teleporting, but across much greater distances), and is an incredible scientist.
4. Magnus sits at the top of a tower that is an amplifier for psychic power, doing something that takes up/radiates huge psychic signatures, but is so far from the planet of the sorcerers that none of his remaining legion can figure it out. He has very little to do with the day to day running of his legion, and instead concentrates very hard on....something....
Okay, so with those things established, I would like to propose a few theories to fill in the blanks. I think that Magnus is trying to engineer the downfall of everyone he hates (coincidence: they are all human or demons!). Although there are many ways to go about a galactic double-genocide, the method that would be the most complete and effective would be to create something that fills the niches that those animals/plants/demons occupy. Case in point: Invasive species on earth today. Take a look it over at Wikipedia. By introducing a "foreign species", and with enough time, and avoiding the "restoration efforts" of the Imperium, he can destroy (or at least humiliatingly neuter) mankind, killing the Imperium AND the demons (human emotion is their food source, yes?) Thus, double galactic genocide, with the "invasive species" being the Tau.
The thing that seals it for me is the fact that the Tau lack everything Magnus hates. There are no power squabblings, no family dramas, no overgrown sense of self. The Tau are exactly what an extremely cynical humanity-hater would create to take their place. They take the best of humanity, things like honor, community, order, the creative spark, etc. and leave out things like vice, laziness, psyker powers (a horrible talking point with Magnus, after all it's put him through), etc.
The biggest weakness for my theory is that is requires Magnus to stay focused for thousands of years without interruption. He is very angry at this point, and slowly but surely wiping humanity (or at least all vestiges of the Emperor) from the galaxy may not be the thing he has in mind. Not to mention everything that comes after the numbered points is complete speculation.
So, what do you all think?
It would be awesome, but I think you're grasping at straws there as you rightly point out at the end.
Also it would essentially give Magnus the same level of importance in the fluff as the Old Ones, Emperor and C'Tan. Creating his own race might give the impression that he's tipped the '2 minutes to midnight' balance.
But as I said..I like the idea
53821
Post by: AnUnearthlyChilde
purplefood wrote:Considering that all the Old Ones are dead...
Cite your reference please? As from what I remember, the old ones in both Fantasy and 40K have simply removed themselves from this dimension as a way of protecting themselves from the C'tan.
And to chip my two cents on the subject...
It's all an elaborate scheme by the Chaos gods
Doubtful imo, and tbh too obvious... not everything has to be chaos or even things we know of in this game. The milky way is a massive place, and the fact GW has a handful of playable races is laughable in comparison to the galaxy in which they inhabit.
The C'Tan
Again, a little too obvious for my tastes, as the C'tan have their part in the game with the Necrons and The machine spirit (ok that one isnt solid canon but you see my point)
The Old Ones
For me this may be the most logical, as they vanished from the game after 1st ed, which not only was a shame, but built into it all a vital point in the stories timeline. It'd be nice to see them return, in a diminished capacity.
Elbow Grease
Possible, but for me, not one I tend to favour, rapid developement within society is not something that happens very often within our own. So within another species I find it less likely without an outside influence.
The Eldar
the least likely in my view as the eldar hold pretty much all other races in contempt, only interacting with them when prophecies dictate iirc.
60576
Post by: tyrant of loserville
@omega : thats a good way of looking at things. i read a theory of the emperor being responsible for the warp storm. whatever the reason they advanced so quickly, i believe the luck and elbow grease the least.
60131
Post by: DOOMBREAD
The reason the Tau are advancing so fast is that they are totally obedient to the Ethereals (an efficient, if tyrannical, method of governance), they are relatively intelligent, they will make any sacrifice to further their cause, and, perhaps most important of all, everybody ignores them. There was also that warp storm, but that was pure chance, IMO.
62173
Post by: shivman
In Xenology it is heavily implied the gland the ethereals use to mind control everyone else was taken from an alien hive queen by the Eldar . It also points out the benefits the Eldar would get from the Tau as allies . such as being a non- psychic race so they would be almost invisible in the warp . It also makes sense as in the 6th edition rule book allies section their alliance is described a battle brothers which is weird because the Eldar look down at everyone
|
|
