Quite a nice (albeit brief) look into the upcoming DMO game is located here.

And I'll quote this part:

The Article wrote:It’s not just your character you’ll be customising: mechanised war machines are central to DMO, as they are to the 40K fiction. The game’s first trailer teases viewers, ending on footage of a five-storey walker romping across a blasted landscape. That two- legged monster was a Titan, one of 40K’s largest and most killy war- bastards – and Dave confirms that a player was controlling it.

That's right kids - you can drive a Titan!

Now then.

I'm interested.

Oh, and if we can keep the "It's a Tech-Priest!!!!1" chatter to a minimum this time, that'd be great!

IT'S A TECH PRIEST!

Sounds very cool

Still have my doubts though, played way too many recent MMO betas (champions, lego, DC) and while they are fun I dont see myself tossing in a monthly fee for all of them

Kanluwen wrote:IT'S A TECH PRIEST!

*sigh*

I'm disappointed already.

They say Tech-Priests can't have funny hats. Artorius, Adept of the Mechanicus Hatticus demands a fez!

Demands it!

“You’ll use vehicles in PvE, you’ll use them in the general over-world, and you’ll use them in PvP.” These vehicles can be run with a crew, separate players taking on the roles of gunner, driver, and man who stands on top and yells “DRIVE FASTER!”

I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD.

I'm liking the sound of this more and more.

Two things:

When is the projected release date for the beta? I didn't see it in the article

Also, I'm going to reserve my judgement of this until it comes out, this is mainly because that this game is 'supposed' to be paving its own way, differing from more traditional MMOs. I see a problem on how they are going to scale things in this universe. Also, if it scales well it means that there will be cataclysmic battles every month (good), however the power to run those battles will take a power horse of a computer-it seems. Without those huge battles I can only see PvP being killteam sized with vehicles almost only reserved for PvE or a little dash of PvP.

A little off topic but:

I wonder how the whole, not going through things, thing will work. I can just imagine a space marine on his bike going full throttle right into a titan's leg and bouncing off like a rubber ball.

So what i took away from that was there NOT trying to make WoW with a new coat of paint, isn't that just asking to fail?
Also how do you do a MMO without an actionbar? Do we not get abilities and the only RPG elements are gear and stats cos thats the only way I can think of that working.

DC Universe Online is doing pretty well without having a traditional "actionbar".

You take a few key abilities(the player chooses if they want damage or "tanky" abilities, what have you) and map them to your mouse, or set them up so specific mouse click combinations/keybinds trigger a different ability.

Trick Shot, for example, in DCUO is Hold right mouse button, then hit 'S' to move backwards releasing them both at the same time.

Yea DC had an interesting mechanic

Although half the time all I do is hold down the attack button for full auto dual pistols! (and spend most my power points on my fire)

The mechanic can also backfire though if you arent holding the mouse long/hard enough

Kanluwen wrote:I'm disappointed already.

They say Tech-Priests can't have funny hats. Artorius, Adept of the Mechanicus Hatticus demands a fez!

Demands it!

yeah, fezes are cool. so are bow ties. i'd like my tech marine to have both as well as a comely young adeptus sororitas sidekick. i read the article in the magazine in question (it had a three part special on 40k gaming with the MMO/space marine/DoWII expansion). either dark millenium or the old republic will be my first foray into MMOs as i've managed to resist the temptation to try them and collectible card gaming for 10+ years.

mythological wrote:When is the projected release date for the beta? I didn't see it in the article

Several years away.

Oooh, I like the sounds of this. Still very wary, but I know that I'll be downloading the demo for sure once it comes out - if it plays right and the guys in charge are able to put their money where their mouth is, this may just be the first MMO I actually buy. Here's hoping.

Also...

The Article wrote:Remember that bit in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook where that Space Marine went into a Space Marine village and was cornered by a commoner with a yellow exclamation mark above his head? The one who told him to go out to his garden and kill ten snotlings that were terrorising his space-crops?

Clearly, they don't remember the greatest work put out by the Black Library, The Farmer Marines Omnibus: Seeds of the Greenskins, Infestation, and Harvest of the Dark Gods.

Could someone who has actually played Darksiders tell me if its combat is something to aspire to? I only know of it from Yahtzee Croshaw's review, and he wasn't impressed. Now, something like Prototype...

jonolikespie wrote:So what i took away from that was there NOT trying to make WoW with a new coat of paint, isn't that just asking to fail?

Quite the opposite, aping WoW without considering whether what you're stealing actually makes for a better or more fun game is foolishness. Even if something was "good enough" for WoW, that doesn't mean it's good enough for you, because WoW got there first and now has the inertia of 12 million subscribers on its side and you don't.

Wow, this just keeps sounding better and better, I was afraid it would be another WoW clone, like almost all other MMOs that I have played. This may be the one MMO I would actually pay for!

AlexHolker wrote:Could someone who has actually played Darksiders tell me if its combat is something to aspire to? I only know of it from Yahtzee Croshaw's review, and he wasn't impressed. Now, something like Prototype...

Since when was Yahtzee impressed with anything Yahtzee is great for pointing out every flaw in a game.

Yeah one more thing Space Battles!!! Cmon whats cooler than running through a ship to get to a transport while getting bombarded? Explosive decompression?

They havent said how you get from planet to planet yet some im hopeing for some space warfare

I just hope it is not a WoW clone. Too many new games try and copy it, and it just ends up failing. Doing something new is the only way to keep subscribers.

jonolikespie wrote:So what i took away from that was there NOT trying to make WoW with a new coat of paint, isn't that just asking to fail?

I'd say cloning WoW is a bigger recipe for failure (see WAR and LOTRO), but the funny thing is you're a failure when compared to WoW no matter what, whether you do exactly what they do or do something different, because people are just far too invested into it to give it up.

Sidstyler wrote:

jonolikespie wrote:So what i took away from that was there NOT trying to make WoW with a new coat of paint, isn't that just asking to fail?

I'd say cloning WoW is a bigger recipe for failure (see WAR and LOTRO), but the funny thing is you're a failure when compared to WoW no matter what, whether you do exactly what they do or do something different, because people are just far too invested into it to give it up.

It's actually quite easy to quit WoW. Just have your account hacked, lose your email address for the account and suddenly the desire to get everything back is instantly gone when thinking how long it will take. It's how I quit cold turkey

Call me crazy, but titans are going to be slowed difficult to balance.

See Planetside.

Would be awesome to see battles in this game ( large scale ) be similar to early planetside (pre BFR's).

VermGho5t wrote:Would be awesome to see battles in this game ( large scale ) be similar to early planetside (pre BFR's).

this is why I am incredibly interested in the game, have they released any information on the combat system? i'm picturing a blend of planetside, global agenda, and WoW, which could be a good blend.

Planetstrike was super fun when you got into a good large scale battle. Had soime glitches and balance issues sure, but was still good fun.

They talk a good game. I'll remain skeptical until I see something concrete. There isn't a single good MMO worth playing right now imo. I sincerely hope DMO is the exception. Couldn't pick a better setting at least

I like the cool Dreadnought in this screenshot and the caption from the PC Gamer site article:

Don’t feed Dreadnoughts curry.

Looks amazing, cant wait to see what other forces are playable, and also i back up the not copying WoW idea, that game is just terrible and i love MMO's

I am guessing that chaos marines/traitor guard are a given for one of the playable races

WoW was great the first year. But Blizzard ran out of ideas quick in that game. It got incredibly boring by the middle of WotLK I didn't even finish it. Haven't regretting quitting since.

I just hope this game doesn't have the god awful raiding mechanic WoW had. I was in a top tier raiding guild ranked in the top 50 in the world and I'll never do that again.

As for balancing a titan, it's easy. You make it only do 5 damage to a 100 hp human sized target. You make human sized targets do 1 damage to a million hp titan. And you call it a day. This way the vehicles go for vehicles. Humans go for humans.

I honestly can't wait for this game. Hoping for Eldar Scorpion if Eldar come in. Otherwise I'll be a long range support dps type like a Hunter in WoW.

O.O WorldEaters!? I'm sold.

holy sweet jesus! please dear GOD have an emperor class titan in there that people can use

This game is going to be AMAZING.....

I play/ed WoW (haven't given up, but can't get 'addicted' to it, so don't play it enough, and despite spending probably £100+ on it, still don't have a max level character :( ) but this could really take over, after warhammer online was a bit of a flop, i think this one is being made to perfection and so far sounds perfect...

Nvs wrote:As for balancing a titan, it's easy. You make it only do 5 damage to a 100 hp human sized target. You make human sized targets do 1 damage to a million hp titan. And you call it a day. This way the vehicles go for vehicles. Humans go for humans.

In the article they mention that larger vehicles need multiple players to control all the weapons and drive it. So one person drives and the others shoot. In that regard the balance is between 3 or more players versus any one target. While that doesn't completely balance things, it is a component of balancing a titan. Also, we all know its something from the end game and not something you'll just pick up early on, so the extremes of its capabilities can be that much more extreme.

Who wants to start a titan legion?

I hardly ever say this about a game, but it sure does look very sweet visually.

Im a little iffy about a few things though. An economy always brings those gold farmers. Oh how I hate them. Hope they can work around this.

Leveling up. A reason I don't play MMO's. It can be soooo boring. Especially if you re-roll a new toon and have to go through the whole thing again. Something the future mmo "RIFT" has worked around.

Fighting in MMO's is never all that good IMO. You just press your buttons quickly and hope your gear is better then theirs.

Anyway, Im sure ill give it a go. Hopefully its good enough to stick with for a long time.

When it comes to gold farming, the biggest detriment to a game is that it puts a barrier to entry into the game for new players that perpetuates either a need for gold farmers or a new players reliance on some higher level benefactor. It steepens the learning curve and the raises the effort a new player has to exert to earn a sum of "gold" for whatever gear they want. Its just like in real life, excess money in an economy leads to inflation.

The problem is that alot of games don't do enough to drain money out of the economies of a game. Those that try to drain gold focus on in game items that are high price premium items, the problem with that is they tend to be so high priced it pushes people to resort to gold farming. The trick they've failed to grasp is that to drain gold they need players to spend moderately on a larger quantity of items or whatever else there is to spend gold.

If I had to pick the number one thing I'm excited about, it would have to be... Summer Glau. But if I had to pick the number one and number two things I was excited about, it would be Summer Glau and this game.


Level 5 tech priest, LFG in Snotling Canyon, PST

Ouze wrote:Level 5 tech priest, LFG in Snotling Canyon, PST

Sadly all you'll find is other Tech-Priests.

Anyone have any idea when it will be released?
Next year? or not that soon...

Its like very far away

Last I heard it was around 2012-13

When the time comes, we are going to have to gather up a dakka dakka army in this one.

As long as it isn't anything like that WFB one, it will do ok. It doesn't have to be a WOW clone, this is 40K, anything less then what we are expecting in 40K will cut its own throat. So far there are a lot of big talk about it, if even half of it comes to ground, it will be a cool game to try.

aka_mythos wrote:

Nvs wrote:As for balancing a titan, it's easy. You make it only do 5 damage to a 100 hp human sized target. You make human sized targets do 1 damage to a million hp titan. And you call it a day. This way the vehicles go for vehicles. Humans go for humans.

In the article they mention that larger vehicles need multiple players to control all the weapons and drive it. So one person drives and the others shoot. In that regard the balance is between 3 or more players versus any one target. While that doesn't completely balance things, it is a component of balancing a titan. Also, we all know its something from the end game and not something you'll just pick up early on, so the extremes of its capabilities can be that much more extreme.

I kind of wonder if stuff like Titans and such might be 'special events' or 'set pieces' that are intentionally limited... I.E. part of doing the So & So Quest chain involves a mission where you (and the guys with you) get to drive a titan through a battlefield. It's cool, but not something you can do at any time or in an open PVP context.

Still, they deserve credit for (apparently) not just trying to reskin WoW.

aka_mythos wrote:

Who wants to start a titan legion?

Oh - I do!

That would be fantastic!

Alpharius wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

Who wants to start a titan legion?

Oh - I do!

That would be fantastic!

alpharius do you want to be an imperial guardsmen with me? We will hold hands and shoot lasguns at DAR while dash shoulders him out of the way to hit us in the face with a choppa

Ok, in the near future i will lose my social life...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Ok, in the near future i will lose my social life...

In the grim dark future, there is no pease only.... Raiding!

If they stick to the semi-FPS design philosophy that they're talking about now, I can see how a Titan could be balanced. For all that it is a tremendous war machine, it is also slow and unwieldy. Even seeing your feet, let alone dealing with a daring little Tech Priest thumping away with his Cog-Axe of Smiting may prove impossible. Your weapons can undoubtedly kill thousands, if they can be brought to bear. But tracking speed may be slow enough to make targeting individuals who are not in Titans problematic.

I'm thinking of Mechwarrior 2, back when a light mech really could dance circles around a much heavier opponent. It took skill on the part of the light mech or the assault mech to end that match without a good portion of luck.

That's pure speculation, but if they use dreads and Titans as standard player vehicles or builds, then it would be a handy way to balance their otherwise overwhelming advantage.

Gitzbitah wrote:If they stick to the semi-FPS design philosophy that they're talking about now, I can see how a Titan could be balanced. For all that it is a tremendous war machine, it is also slow and unwieldy. Even seeing your feet, let alone dealing with a daring little Tech Priest thumping away with his Cog-Axe of Smiting may prove impossible. Your weapons can undoubtedly kill thousands, if they can be brought to bear. But tracking speed may be slow enough to make targeting individuals who are not in Titans problematic.

I'm thinking of Mechwarrior 2, back when a light mech really could dance circles around a much heavier opponent. It took skill on the part of the light mech or the assault mech to end that match without a good portion of luck.

That's pure speculation, but if they use dreads and Titans as standard player vehicles or builds, then it would be a handy way to balance their otherwise overwhelming advantage.

Tracking is less of a problem if you have range on your side, depending on how far these can fire range could be a great asset

I absolutely agree- but slow tracking could be a limiting factor when nothing else will equal your range, firepower, or toughness. Dexterity and recharge time are about the only ways left to favor the poor footsoldier.

I'd love big clumsy Titans with guns that could kill swathes of enemies, but needed to be blocked from ground assaults by their loyal retainers.

Kurgash wrote:O.O WorldEaters!? I'm sold.

Nice that they are going for cult troops, and not just "standards". Should be very cool.

What do you reckon the chances are of them including other superheavies? I'm holding out for the baneblade.

Also, dibs on gunner!

Ennkay wrote:alpharius do you want to be an imperial guardsmen with me? We will hold hands and shoot lasguns at DAR while dash shoulders him out of the way to hit us in the face with a choppa

Yeah... Enkay do that, Alpharius and I will need the blood of fodder to lubricate our titan's joints.

Balance wrote:

aka_mythos wrote: In the article they mention that larger vehicles need multiple players to control all the weapons and drive it...

I kind of wonder if stuff like Titans and such might be 'special events' or 'set pieces' that are intentionally limited... I.E. part of doing the So & So Quest chain involves a mission where you (and the guys with you) get to drive a titan through a battlefield. It's cool, but not something you can do at any time or in an open PVP context.

They say that its intended for PVE and PVP battlezones... in the language of MMO's that kinda implies its not restricted to quests or events. I think withint the context of 40k, they may pull something similar to a point balancing mechanic where they restrict each side to some "point" value for a battlezone... or maybe where it spawns things to compensate for overly one sided battles.

When the guild Legio Praetor shows up in titans to fight the cult of Crusty Toe-nails... a single nurgle devotee... what will the game do?

I tend to think titans should be so far out into the endgame, seeing them won't happen that often.

I like the idea of including Titans, but something tell me we will have to put ourselves in the mindset of "movie marines" where the idea of a high level marines soloing a titan is possible... taking multiple plasma shots... even if they really shouldn't be.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh, and if we can keep the "It's a Tech-Priest!!!!1" chatter to a minimum this time, that'd be great!

Seconded.

I hope they have more than 2 factions, that causes one to always steamroll the other and never a good scrap, was it Planetscape that had 3, so 2 would fight over an area then the third would join in and would make the battles flow nicely and fun.

Gitzbitah wrote: Even seeing your feet, let alone dealing with a daring little Tech Priest thumping away with his Cog-Axe of Smiting may prove impossible.

That's a +1 Cog-Axe of Smiting, sir. I didn't spend 2 hours in Loota Gulch farming Ork teef for you to disparage it.

Ouze wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote: Even seeing your feet, let alone dealing with a daring little Tech Priest thumping away with his Cog-Axe of Smiting may prove impossible.

That's a +1 Cog-Axe of Smiting, sir. I didn't spend 2 hours in Loota Gulch farming Ork teef for you to disparage it.

Pfft, the greens from the Newest Darkest Millennium expansion are so much better than the epics from Gulch.

on a side note, I truly hope they eventually allow other races. I'd imagine it must be awesome playing as a Ork Tankbusta - when I used to play UT2004, I like nothing better then crusing around with my AVRiL, cracking vehicles.

Why would you think Orks aren't playable?

They've been saying, since the very beginning, that Orks are playable.

The only two races they've said that likely will not be made playable make perfect sense. Necrons and Tyranids really have no business being playable, and there's no wiggle room for a Death Knight-esque solution with either.

I know it will all be balanced, so every race is better at something, worse at something else, but what do you think will be your favourite race?
I'm thinking Eldar might be quite fun....

The idea of team titan PVP matches is REALLY cool. I would love to have me and 2-3 of my friends running around a titan, shooting various things and fighting that we are going the wrong way and screwing up my volcano cannon shots. That would make a really fantastic dynamic for team pvp. Seriously.

Kanluwen wrote:Why would you think Orks aren't playable?

They've been saying, since the very beginning, that Orks are playable.

The only two races they've said that likely will not be made playable make perfect sense. Necrons and Tyranids really have no business being playable, and there's no wiggle room for a Death Knight-esque solution with either.

Well if the game is sucessful enough Tyranid Invasion? Would only need to be on 1 world plus they can always add planets, and cmon who wouldent want to run around as a Genestealer?

Necrons same kind of thing its a sector, sectors are pretty big

Tyranids and Necrons are perfect npc baddies. They make zero sense as playable races considering 99% of each race is pretty brainless and without personality/individuality.

Gibbsey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why would you think Orks aren't playable?

They've been saying, since the very beginning, that Orks are playable.

The only two races they've said that likely will not be made playable make perfect sense. Necrons and Tyranids really have no business being playable, and there's no wiggle room for a Death Knight-esque solution with either.

Well if the game is sucessful enough Tyranid Invasion? Would only need to be on 1 world plus they can always add planets, and cmon who wouldent want to run around as a Genestealer?

Necrons same kind of thing its a sector, sectors are pretty big

No, that's not the problem.

The problem is that both races really have no room for "independent" characters. You'd be playing and essentially be a bot.

Kanluwen wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why would you think Orks aren't playable?

They've been saying, since the very beginning, that Orks are playable.

The only two races they've said that likely will not be made playable make perfect sense. Necrons and Tyranids really have no business being playable, and there's no wiggle room for a Death Knight-esque solution with either.

Well if the game is sucessful enough Tyranid Invasion? Would only need to be on 1 world plus they can always add planets, and cmon who wouldent want to run around as a Genestealer?

Necrons same kind of thing its a sector, sectors are pretty big

No, that's not the problem.

The problem is that both races really have no room for "independent" characters. You'd be playing and essentially be a bot.

Necrons quite literally

Maybe tyranid synapse creatures? they are capable of independate thought when not being controlled by the hive mind to do something specific.

Anyway i doubt they would add them, just saying it could eventually be a possibility

Yeah, but Synapse Creatures are so droll and boring.

Plus, they've also said Tyranids and Necrons are going to be the "main" NPC faction you'd fight against

I think they could justify necron and tyranid, but it would require some degree of stretching that I don't think everyone would accept.

Tyranid could be simply enough inventing some synapse creature that is highly mutatable allowing it to become somewhat like other Tyranids... broodlord warrior esque... As a synapse creature it could then be justified that you can take over and control broods or larger creatures in a similar fashion to players controling vehicles.

Necrons could simply be a matter of uploading your mind into progressively better and upgraded bodies.

I personally think it shouldn't be done. Some races should be exclusively the NPC enemy and I think the ones that require the greatest stretch of the imagination beyond the establishe setting are most suited.

You could always make some of the mindless stuff playable via the sort of NPC controlling PvP Lord of the Rings (IIRC) had.

Jack

And then there's the faction issue.

Chaos/Heretics, Dark Eldar, and Orks? Completely believable as a faction; after all Abaddon hired entire Ork Klans as mercs during his 13th Black Crusade. They don't care as long as they get a good fight, shiny loots, and things that go boom.
Dark Eldar would be a bit of a stretch, but at the same time...it could just be an alliance of convenience where the Dark Eldar are getting involved simply because it suits their whims at the moment.

Imperium, Eldar, and Tau are again, completely believable as a faction.
The Imperium and Eldar have, in the past, worked together albeit with a large bit of mutual distrust. If things are dire enough...they'll put their bigger difference aside and work together. Probably kill each other afterwards, but hey isn't that what friends do?
The Tau and the Imperium, now...that's a bit of a different one. I think there's only one instance where the Imperium has worked with the Tau and that was Creed letting the Tau evacuate their forces after the two faced off a Splinter Fleet that cropped up while they were fighting each other.

End game raid boss: Fight the Nightbringer, swing away for a little bit then he explodes, flies away and you loot the Necrodermis.

Good Golly I want to play as a Battle suit pilot.

Has anyone seen good fluff for Eldar-Tau cooperation?

Pretty much every piece of fluff, ever, regarding the Eldar and Tau?

There's a quote from Eldrad stating that "the Eldar feel an affinity and protectiveness towards the Tau that they've not felt before towards another race".

It's what partly makes the whole Eldar/Tau connection to the Old Ones so much easier to swallow. Old Ones make the Eldar protect their latest investment, and voila.

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but Synapse Creatures are so droll and boring.

Plus, they've also said Tyranids and Necrons are going to be the "main" NPC faction you'd fight against

Oh man that is really gonna suck for fans of those factions. I mean If the situation was reversed and I had to play as a tyranid farming IG.....unghhhh.

I could kind of see Tyranids being a race that has lots of critter keeper classes. Like every Synapse creature you play has the option of developing broods of little guys, like how WoW has hunters with pets. So you could play a warrior who could go the route of controlling some hormies or whatever, or a genestealer who doesn't have little guys but different melee routes, or a 'thrope mage type with little guys. Could work, but it would be a small faction...

Wehrkind wrote:I could kind of see Tyranids being a race that has lots of critter keeper classes. Like every Synapse creature you play has the option of developing broods of little guys, like how WoW has hunters with pets. So you could play a warrior who could go the route of controlling some hormies or whatever, or a genestealer who doesn't have little guys but different melee routes, or a 'thrope mage type with little guys. Could work, but it would be a small faction...

what about lictors? or Zoans? there are pleanty of tyranid creatures they could use

I can see it now.

"Wait no! Don't drive the Land Raider under the Warlord's foooo..."

"..."

"SORRY!"

This will be drawing a young audience to warhammer.

Now swords will be wooden, and instead of guns they shout.

A Black Ram wrote:This will be drawing a young audience to warhammer.

Now swords will be wooden, and instead of guns they shout.

Often I find that most of the age group under 13 generally lack the patience to play the actual tabletop game. However, that's not to say that there are not exceptions...

Kanluwen wrote:The Tau and the Imperium, now...that's a bit of a different one. I think there's only one instance where the Imperium has worked with the Tau and that was Creed letting the Tau evacuate their forces after the two faced off a Splinter Fleet that cropped up while they were fighting each other.

I, for one, will never fight alongside a blue-skin. And I’ll execute any Guardsmen I see fraternising with them as well.

And you’re right about the ‘Nids and ‘Crons. The only possible way to make them playable would be in a ‘Left 4 Dead’ method, where you can play the ‘Special’ ‘Nids/’Crons (Lictors, Carnifexes, Destroyers, Tomb Spyders) while AI-controlled ‘Hordes’ of Gaunts and Warriors/Flayed Ones run around. But even then you’re just controlling a slightly more specialist bot – you’re more individualistic, but you’re not an individual.

Don't think of it as fighting "alongside" the Tau.

Think of it as blue-tinged ablative tank armor!

Dont know if its been mentioned but the way the game is described sounds ALLOT like Planetfall from 6-7 years ago.
I believe it was the worlds first fps-mmo and it was really cool but repetitive as no new content was added other than through expansions. Sure they tried to balance the things left right and centre but thats not new content.

I really liked the way you did combat in that game and after seeing that FPS mmo that failed not so long ago it gives hope that the shooty combat of DMO will be quite good.

Ouze wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote: Even seeing your feet, let alone dealing with a daring little Tech Priest thumping away with his Cog-Axe of Smiting may prove impossible.

That's a +1 Cog-Axe of Smiting, sir. I didn't spend 2 hours in Loota Gulch farming Ork teef for you to disparage it.

These 2 posts were hilarious, thank you sirs...

Kanluwen wrote:And then there's the faction issue.

Chaos/Heretics, Dark Eldar, and Orks?

Imperium, Eldar, and Tau are again,

Why would there be two factions?!? The 40k universe is far from a manichean / dualistic setting... Any race would have its own agenda, sometimes being in line with potential allies, sometimes forcing them to cross swords with them...

Wehrkind wrote:I could kind of see Tyranids being a race that has lots of critter keeper classes. Like every Synapse creature you play has the option of developing broods of little guys, like how WoW has hunters with pets. So you could play a warrior who could go the route of controlling some hormies or whatever, or a genestealer who doesn't have little guys but different melee routes, or a 'thrope mage type with little guys. Could work, but it would be a small faction...

This is an idea I like!!!! That would be nice to play!! As a Lictor you could infiltrate & "tag" with pheromones the high-priority targets for your comrades' swarms to assault!!! I love that!



Ah, and last point : am I the only one thinking this technaugur with lasgun looks damn cool?!?

Kanluwen wrote:Why would you think Orks aren't playable?
They've been saying, since the very beginning, that Orks are playable.

I read an early interview which said only the Imperium would be playable initially. That may not have been, or may no longer be, true. If so, I'm very stoked. I don't think I want to have playable Necrons or Tyranids, I don't care much about the Imperium, and Orks seem like the most fun.

Not as cool as the Templar with bolter in hand. Does anyone know if there will be a Mac version of the game? I run parallels but it's a bit pants and can't get any of the DOW games to work.

It's sounding like a persistant online 'Battlefield' game, with added 'questing' which seems like great fun to me.

As for titans, the Star Wars Battlefront 2 game managed to have AT-ATs in the hoth map which were player controlled.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I, for one, will never fight alongside a blue-skin. And I’ll execute any Guardsmen I see fraternising with them as well.

"I, for one, will never fight alongside... sniff sniff ... hello my beloved blue skinned ethereal"

I hope they attempt to make every race playable at some point. It would be kind of a dick move to screw over nid and cron fans, or really anyone who sees their fave race delegated to npc duties.

A huge part of what makes 40k fun is the diversity in factions, taking a huge chunk of fans and telling them their race isn't cool enough to be playable kinda sucks.

On that same note I hope we get more than just World Eaters.

asimo77 wrote:I hope they attempt to make every race playable at some point. It would be kind of a dick move to screw over nid and cron fans, or really anyone who sees their fave race delegated to npc duties.

A huge part of what makes 40k fun is the diversity in factions, taking a huge chunk of fans and telling them their race isn't cool enough to be playable kinda sucks.

On that same note I hope we get more than just World Eaters.

Tyranids and Necrons would need a major deus ex machina to be playable. Even the most independent creatures of the Tyranids or constructs of the Necrons are still subservient to a greater will. That's why they'd be better as a pair of NPC "factions" that acts as a buffer between Destruction/Order.

As for diversity...
Astartes(both Chaos and Loyalist) are supposedly a 'class' that you can pick to begin with. Rather than picking a distinctive homeworld/background like you would with Guard or a Sept/Klan/whatever...there's supposed to be different Chapters that you can pick.

Yggdrasil wrote:
Why would there be two factions?!? The 40k universe is far from a manichean / dualistic setting... Any race would have its own agenda, sometimes being in line with potential allies, sometimes forcing them to cross swords with them...

Because 3 factions is a major pain in the ass for even an experienced company to balance in terms of server population, class balance, etc etc.

Ok that bit about CSM's is nice, good to know I can still make a noise marine. Hopefully.

I guess playing as a necron of some sort will have to remain a pipe dream.

Though if the game is a straight up rip off of battlefield/battlefront then I don't think it would be too hard to have nearly every faction.

Of course that leaves little room for loot/gear and leveling up. Though for necrons you could just be boring and say a level up is improved programming.

A titan you say?
I'm in!

thats the only thing i am not looking forward to: factions, I am sorry but although they are believeable at a stretch they dont really fit well in the 40k setting, (the factions in WAR felt cheesy and unrealistic enough) Orks may get hired as mercenaries but lets be honest you'd better keep them in constant contact with the enemy or they will turn on you or eachother, DE dont really fit on a large scale, Chaos are by nature chaotic, fluff-wise any alliances they have held have been bitter affairs of utmost desperation.

The imperium are completely xenophobic, the eldar think they are better than everyone else and would sacrifice an entire human system for the sake of 1 eldar life if they could see no benefit in protecting them, the tau would probably promote the idea of alliance as it fits in with their idea of the greater good somewhat.

Even though i would love to play orks or eldar I would rather have pure imperium v. chaos than a cheesy plot armoured alliance

Ugly Green Trog wrote:thats the only thing i am not looking forward to: factions, I am sorry but although they are believeable at a stretch they dont really fit well in the 40k setting, (the factions in WAR felt cheesy and unrealistic enough) Orks may get hired as mercenaries but lets be honest you'd better keep them in constant contact with the enemy or they will turn on you or eachother, DE dont really fit on a large scale, Chaos are by nature chaotic, fluff-wise any alliances they have held have been bitter affairs of utmost desperation.

The imperium are completely xenophobic, the eldar think they are better than everyone else and would sacrifice an entire human system for the sake of 1 eldar life if they could see no benefit in protecting them, the tau would probably promote the idea of alliance as it fits in with their idea of the greater good somewhat.

Even though i would love to play orks or eldar I would rather have pure imperium v. chaos than a cheesy plot armoured alliance

Im pretty sure they have said they are not going to do that. The only faction at the moment is the "Imperium of man" so i guess they might throw guard and space amrines together, other than that im not sure but they wont stick chaos, eldar, or orks together

if every race was a seperate faction, then all of a sudden we are VERY DIFFERENT FROM WOW

all of a sudden were unique

SweetLou wrote:if every race was a seperate faction, then all of a sudden we are VERY DIFFERENT FROM WOW

all of a sudden were unique

Well Dark Age of Camelot (the precursor to WAR) had 3 factions. Honestly, just annoy bandwagonser by plopping high level NPC's if theres an imbalance

SweetLou wrote:If every race was a separate faction, then all of a sudden we are VERY DIFFERENT FROM WOW

All of a sudden we're unique

And then you have at least quadrupled the work load for the developers and playtesters.
It's also worth noting that "if every race was a separate faction" and being "VERY DIFFERENT FROM WOW" is not necessarily a 100% good thing.
There's a reason why WoW's successful. Part of it is the clearly delineated "Good" and "Evil" factions.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:That's the only thing I am not looking forward to: factions, I am sorry but although they are believable at a stretch they don't really fit well in the 40k setting, (the factions in WAR felt cheesy and unrealistic enough)

How in the hell did the factions in WAR feel "cheesy and unrealistic"? It's not meant to be an everyday event in WHFB. There is a reason that the factions have banded together, and it's because things are that bad. For example: in the case of Order: it takes alot to get the High Elves to leave Ulthuan. That alone is a sign of how big the events portrayed within the "storyline" are, and that's discounting the fact that bloody Tyrion is leading the expeditionary force to the Old World.

All this game needs is a suitably important series of events to be portrayed.
Oh, and while we're at it?

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Orks may get hired as mercenaries but lets be honest you'd better keep them in constant contact with the enemy or they will turn on you or each other, DE don't really fit on a large scale, Chaos are by nature chaotic, fluff-wise any alliances they have held have been bitter affairs of utmost desperation.

Orks don't need to be "hired" as mercenaries. You point them towards an objective, and keep them supplied with weapons and slaves and they're fine.
Dark Eldar will do whatever they want, normally just performing acts of terror and sabotage within the scope of the larger war. How does that not fit within a large scale?
Chaos is not by its nature "chaotic". The fact that we've seen organized armies fielded by them, with no animosity between Cults that should have been cutting each others throats tells us that.

And let's not forget that in a faction, the varying races do not have to get along with each other all the time. They're not trading partners sitting at a table saying howdy doody and making small talk while arranging dinner get togethers. They're at war with a common enemy.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:The Imperium are completely xenophobic, the Eldar think they are better than everyone else and would sacrifice an entire human system for the sake of 1 Eldar life if they could see no benefit in protecting them, the Tau would probably promote the idea of alliance as it fits in with their idea of the greater good somewhat.

See above. Alliance does not necessarily have to be an easy thing. See WW2 Allied Nations and the interaction between the US and UK with Russia.

Also:
The Imperium, while xenophobic, also is not above "allying" with Xenos and using them as a form of ablative armor for their own forces. After all...if the Eldar commit themselves to a battle, it's a big deal. The Eldar can't really afford any losses in a campaign, while the Imperium can. Think in the long run here.
The Eldar will sacrifice an entire human system for the sake of one Eldar life, but they'll also come to the aid of a human system if it's all that stands between an Ork Waagh! and an Exodite world.
The Tau would promote the idea of an alliance, of course. And a clever Imperial commander will accept it, let the Tau soak up the casualties and potentially lose their more valuable hardware during those battles.

Gibbsey wrote:The only faction at the moment is the "Imperium of Man" so I guess they might throw Guard and Space Marines together, other than that I'm not sure but they won't stick Chaos, Eldar, or Orks together.

Actually, the only race that is confirmed at the moment is the Imperium of Man.

And they've already said that Guard and Marines are basically "classes" within that race.
Chaos and Orks have a history of working together, even if it's not directly together. Orks will follow Chaos invasions at times because they know targets will be ripe for the plundering and they can get some damned good fighting in against the Spiky Boyz or the Shiny Boyz.

Kanluwen wrote:There's a reason why WoW's successful. Part of it is the clearly delineated "Good" and "Evil" factions

Do you play WoW?
There is no clearly defined "Good" and "Evil" factions, unless you count NPC factions as the evil faction.

god I hope its a PVP game care bears ruin mmos

I think what he meant by "good" and "evil" was specifically "cool people" and "useless noobs".

Last day I played Allaince:



Like honestly wtf?


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nids and crons are best kept to fps maybe.

WAR never excited me much, I mean it would have been fun to play and everything for the fluff/ lore.

But man.

A 40k MMO.

How cool is that.

Pretty damn cool.

ph34r wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:There's a reason why WoW's successful. Part of it is the clearly delineated "Good" and "Evil" factions

Do you play WoW?
There is no clearly defined "Good" and "Evil" factions, unless you count NPC factions as the evil faction.

Actually...there are.

The Horde is home to the majority of the "evil" races(Undead, Trolls, and Orcs) that have persisted throughout Warcraft's existence.
The only races that haven't tried to commit genocide that are on the Horde are the Goblins, Blood Elves, and Tauren. That's a short list, and I hesitate to put the Goblins on it simply because of the fact that they're slaving little gits

The Alliance features, again, a majority of the "good" races(Draenei, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Night Elves being that majority).
One could argue that humans are "evil" because they put the Orcs in what amounted to a demonic detox facility after two separate extradimensional incursions.
The same thing can be said of their treatment of the Trolls, who had y'know...tried to butcher and enslave them while they were still roving bands of barbarians.

But hey. What's even funnier is...it's like there's varying degrees of how fethed up even the "good" races are.

It's almost like that system could work for 40k!

I rather have a silly allaince/plot than excluding entire sections of fans from playing their favorite race. That's not taken into consideration workload of course.

I mean WH40k is pretty silly itself and shouldn't be taken too seriously, so if some sort of half-assed plot lets my tau buddy and my necron immortal hammerdin /dance till the sun goes down so be it.

Sounds more fun than IoM X infinite

Actually...there are.

Actually.... still no.

The Horde is home to the majority of the "evil" races(Undead, Trolls, and Orcs) that have persisted throughout Warcraft's existence.
The only races that haven't tried to commit genocide that are on the Horde are the Goblins, Blood Elves, and Tauren. That's a short list, and I hesitate to put the Goblins on it simply because of the fact that they're slaving little gits

The Alliance features, again, a majority of the "good" races(Draenei, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Night Elves being that majority).
One could argue that humans are "evil" because they put the Orcs in what amounted to a demonic detox facility after two separate extradimensional incursions.
The same thing can be said of their treatment of the Trolls, who had y'know...tried to butcher and enslave them while they were still roving bands of barbarians.

But hey. What's even funnier is...it's like there's varying degrees of how fethed up even the "good" races are.

It's almost like that system could work for 40k!

Orcs: freed from their demonic curse, they no longer desire to exterminate the humans elves and dwarves.
Trolls: The darkspear tribe, having lived on a tiny island for the entirety of their pre-horde existence, have tried to genocide nobody.
Tauren: Are peace loving
Blood Elves: Are angry but have only ever tried to wipe out the evil Forest Trolls.
Forsaken: Are fairly evil. Sylvannas is probably the evilest main character.
Goblins: Are not evil at all, they just like money.

then again the alliance...

Humans tried to exterminate the Orcs
Night elves royally fethed up the world several times


Honestly everyone in 40k is evil, but the DE are a lot more evil than the tau, than say the forsaken are eviller than the gnomes.

Humans haven't tried to exterminate the Orcs, actually. They put them in internment camps, sure. But that's hardly genocide especially after that enemy has invaded your world twice, cast down entire kingdoms and was only stopped by their homeworld breaking apart.
Night Elves I'll give you. But there was demonic influence there too, so if Orcs are excused from genocide by that excuse so should Night Elves.

You're wrong about the Trolls though. The Darkspear Tribe was originally from the Eastern Kingdoms, like the rest of the Forest Trolls were. They were even part of Zul'jin's army to purge Quel'Thalas.
Tauren and Blood Elves are, out of the entirety of the Horde, the "nice" guys.
Goblins are the perfect example of a moralless businessman. Enslaving your own people to make a quick buck may not be "evil", but it sure as hell isn't "good".

Darkspears? I'm pretty sure they lived in stranglethorn until they left and sailed west. They were part of an army to attack the High Elves on the other extreme of the continent?

Well, there's an easy way that this could have happened.
The attempt to purge Quel'Thalas was during the Second War, right?

The Alliance and High Elves broke the back of the Forest Troll Empire during that, and they spread out all over the place afterwards. Darkspears end up in STV, then left and sailed west after Hakkar took residence in Zul'Gurub.

Works, right?

Last time I checked the Orcs were from Nagrand I guess that makes them a bunch of easy-going farming types.

The Trolls are definately what you could call the most "evil" of the races.

--------

Now what we are calling "purge" Quel'thelas is an intended act of genocide. So if we are talking evil we are presuming they wanted to kill each and every one and we are saying the Trolls are going along with this willingly, no demonic curse etc.

So I guess that is pretty "evil". Now having said that the trolls are a "race" of "tribes" they are used to going to war on each other. If you want to pick points you could say they were ignorant in a sense, and say that maybe it never occured to them that would be "so bad" especially considering, to make a little joke, the elven archers are their own tactical rivals so to speak.

It could then be argued further that the Trolls have grown since then not just the Darkspear tribe but working todeal with Hakkar as well.

-----
Now having said if you don't think of the Trolls as a playable Horde/ Alliance race they also definately serve as "evil" or maybe "greedy/ limitless ambitious" antagonists not just in Kalimdor/ Eastern Kingdoms but in Wrath as well. Now it could be said that the trolls in Wrath give us a chance to see the trolls as yes, you could say having limited hesitation to spill blood, but still not necessarly on the same level as say Sergeras or the other Demons/ Doom-lords. I mean they do not medidate daily on how much they just HATE EVERYONE else SO MUCH.

Now back on topic so to speak I don't know how anyone can consider Thrall or Vol'jin or even Garrosh to be "evil". Sylvannas has an alliance with the Val'kyr and members of the Alliance are, quite frankly, routinely tortured and worse by the Forsaken which she could not have been entirely ignorant of considering it happened right next to her palace.

That torture is what you could call "evil". It could also be hypothesised Sylvannas shares a side of the insanity that may very well affect all? Forsaken.

And there are of course "evil" Humans in the world, not all of which are under the influence or related to Demons.


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I mean the first you could name is Kel'Thuzad or anyone else trained at the Scholomance.

This is also getting off-topic from the 40k MMO but it is always nice to see WoW on dakka.

asimo77 wrote:I hope they attempt to make every race playable at some point. It would be kind of a dick move to screw over nid and cron fans, or really anyone who sees their fave race delegated to npc duties.

I think it would be an even bigger dick move to do them in an insincere way that forces them to fit a framework for a game and that doesn't fit them and would force developer to invent something that strongly deviates from the established nature of the two.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:
The imperium are completely xenophobic, the eldar think they are better than everyone else and would sacrifice an entire human system for the sake of 1 eldar life if they could see no benefit in protecting them, the tau would probably promote the idea of alliance as it fits in with their idea of the greater good somewhat.

Only the Eldar understand why the Eldar do what they do.

In the RT era the Imperium fought alongside allied xenos often enough. First we can say that not all parts of the Imperium are equally xenophobic... this could be one of those very slightly less xenophobic areas. It always comes back to Nazis, but if they were able to overlook some of their racist beliefs for the sake of opportunistic pragmatism I tend to think the Imperium would as well. The Imperium would fight and win the war now, purge the population later.

I'd like to see a faction system similar to Everquest, where there are tons of different factions, all of which treat you differently based on your race\class\god and current standing. For example, killing a chaos cultist would simultaneously increase your faction with The Imperium*, Tau of X, Eldar of X etc, and would lower your faction with Chaos.

If they were able to handle this in 1999, I think they should be able to do it in 2012.

*Note that "The Imperium" is a group of different factions, which would include Dark Angels, Blood Ravens, Ultramarines, Imperial Guard, etc etc, just as when you PK'd an elf in Everquest, you'd get a message indicating your faction standing has decreased with Many Elves (rather then indicate the dozen or so different elves you annoyed).

You forget to mention that there was no organized PvP in EverQuest. You could kill members of your own faction.

And you didn't lose faction when killing PCs. You only lost it killing NPCs.