It sounds official enough. "Create" is how the charges appeared on my credit card after advance ordering the movie package. Hopefully, I'll be seeing that same email message soon.
I paid for the 'recorded shipping' and haven't received any form of tracking number, so I'm a little concerned about that. I'll be rather annoyed if my DVD shows up and paid extra for no reason at all.
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CaptKaruthors wrote:I hope mine has shipped. I ordered it weeks ago.
The shipments are being prioritized, so the earlier the order was placed, the sooner it will ship.
We all pay for theft in everything we buy, it's not a GW conspiracy. About 15% of the price of all retail goods accounts for loss due to theft and the security methods purchased to try and prevent it. For those who don't like that, and who does, you can help by not buying stolen goods and of course, by not stealing them or pirating them yourself.
It would be the height of naivety for them to be surprised when it ends up on a torrent 2-3 days after it arrives at peoples homes. Sad, but it's an unavoidable fact of life for digital content and books/comics these days.
BrassScorpion wrote:We all pay for theft in everything we buy, it's not a GW conspiracy. About 15% of the price of all retail goods accounts for loss due to theft and the security methods purchased to try and prevent it. For those who don't like that, and who does, you can help by not buying stolen goods and of course, by not stealing them or pirating them yourself.
Oh yeah, we are all buying illegally made GW miniatures, so therefore they always have to raise their prices do to theft. Yeah right.
Thats cool, hopefully I will see it on amazon or some other location eventually. Personally, $40 seems a bit steep for a movie with less than stellar CGI
Oh yeah, we are all buying illegally made GW miniatures, so therefore they always have to raise their prices do to theft. Yeah right.
That 15% markup reflects items being stolen from stores probably more than people making illegal copies.
Also, notice how my original post was about ALL retail goods in general, yet the anti-GW conspiracy theory machine immediately kicked into high gear with the usual acrimonious and barely relevant retort. None of us customers like where GW prices have gone the past few years, but spewing nonsense about it won't bring the prices down.
Has anyone seen any tracking info available for their orders? I received the email confirming my order shipped yesterday via priority mail but now there is no way to track it. The email contained no tracking info and going onto the website and there is no order tracking feature I can find. I wanted to plan a viewing party with some friends but I guess I'll have to wait until it shows up.
I just received my tracking information. It's actually due to arrive TODAY!
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Stravo wrote:Has anyone seen any tracking info available for their orders? I received the email confirming my order shipped yesterday via priority mail but now there is no way to track it. The email contained no tracking info and going onto the website and there is no order tracking feature I can find. I wanted to plan a viewing party with some friends but I guess I'll have to wait until it shows up.
Just received my email, according to the Ultramarines movie site the emails are being sent out in batches, not as as soon as it's shipped. So those who haven't had the email yet, your DVD might have already been shipped
I got an email today saying mine has shipped. No idea when it will get here as my part of Scotland was battered senseless by snow. I'd advise that UK buyers check out the Royal Mail website as it says something about types of special delivery being cancelled at the moment due to the build up of post that has not been delivered.
Piracy is irrelevant when you consider that the price of the movie isn't so much for what they've produced as encouragement to produce more and with a bigger production value.
Hopefully this thread means I'll find mine in the mail tomorrow or Monday.
Ennkay wrote:i wonder how GW will react when it is inevitably put on pirate bay
Bitch, moan and raise price to make up for lost revenue.
GW had nothing to do with the film. Except give permission for them to make it. But, like the mob, they will get their pay either way.
Curiously enough this is where I can see GW stepping in. They will be far more prepared to handle this, plus I can not see them just leaving IP protection to a third party. They will come down hard and rightly so.
Has anyone else noticed that Create Distribution, the distribution company, doesn't even have a webpage (and the site says 'this page has *just* been registered). Now, I know much of the US have their things already.
But.... I can't shake the feeling that codex created their own distribution company too..... Probably where our £8 shipping went.
Narrows the list of people to blame for the delay though.
my 2 cent review:
just finished watching it.....gotta say im glad dan abnett wrote the screen play, that was the best part for me at least. animation was a solid "B" grade at best.
Mine might have arrived on Friday, but I was at work so won't know until I check my mail for a "Hi! We missed you, now come to the post office!" notification.
No word as yet, to make things worst I'm in University halls so if it arrives after the 18th of Dec I'll have to wait until January until I can get it from our post room and watch it.
My copy arrived Saturday. I'm pleased with the film. The story felt like 40K; full of grimdark. While the animation was not state of art, it was solid and consistent. If they do another film, I'd certainly buy
Got mine Saturday but my daughter grabbed it out of my hands...." It's your Christmas present Daddy"... I didn't put up much of a fight.
What I didn't tell her was my buddy emailed me that his copy came in too....
"Honey, I'll be back, got to go out for a minute !!!!, I shouldn't be gone more then 70 minutes....
Had to watch it on a little TV with little TV sound but didn't care.... I liked it and can't wait to watch it on our flat screen Christmas day.... at least twice !!!!!
OK, I know I have been very vocal and supportive of Codex Pictures, and I don't want to complain too much as I was very impressed by the movie etc.
However I preordered my copy at the start of October, but didn't receive a single email confirmation regarding my order, or any of the updates that other people had been receiving.
My girlfriend on the other hand placed an order for a copy for her brother and has received regular updates as well as shipping confirmation.
She ordered her copy just over a week ago and received confirmation that it was being shipped today.
My copy arrived today.
I have sent 3 very polite emails to Codex Pictures and Create Distribution asking if they could confirm that my order was being processed and have yet to receive a reply.
When my copy arrived at work today it was packed in a Jiffy Bag, meaning that the nice cardboard sleeve it comes in was damaged, as the packing was nowhere near sufficient for this type of product. And I am now miffed about the £8 postage.
I just am a little surprised by the inconsistency. My girlfriend has received very professional service, although I will wait to see what state her copy arrives in.
However I am not entirely impressed with the level of servive I have recieved.
I do want Codex to succeed, and I loved the movie and I have to admit that the DVD is beautifully presented and I think worth the money, I just think there is massive room for improvement in customer relations.
But at least I got my copy I suppose, just a shame it's not in perfect condition. I will try to get a replacement but if my previous unanswered emails are anything to go by then I don't hold out much hope.
StraightSilver wrote:OK, I know I have been very vocal and supportive of Codex Pictures, and I don't want to complain too much as I was very impressed by the movie etc.
However I preordered my copy at the start of October, but didn't receive a single email confirmation regarding my order, or any of the updates that other people had been receiving.
My girlfriend on the other hand placed an order for a copy for her brother and has received regular updates as well as shipping confirmation.
She ordered her copy just over a week ago and received confirmation that it was being shipped today.
My copy arrived today.
I have sent 3 very polite emails to Codex Pictures and Create Distribution asking if they could confirm that my order was being processed and have yet to receive a reply.
When my copy arrived at work today it was packed in a Jiffy Bag, meaning that the nice cardboard sleeve it comes in was damaged, as the packing was nowhere near sufficient for this type of product. And I am now miffed about the £8 postage.
I just am a little surprised by the inconsistency. My girlfriend has received very professional service, although I will wait to see what state her copy arrives in.
However I am not entirely impressed with the level of servive I have recieved.
I do want Codex to succeed, and I loved the movie and I have to admit that the DVD is beautifully presented and I think worth the money, I just think there is massive room for improvement in customer relations.
But at least I got my copy I suppose, just a shame it's not in perfect condition. I will try to get a replacement but if my previous unanswered emails are anything to go by then I don't hold out much hope.
That certainly sucks, I would definitely make sure you try to contact them at least one more time to let them know about the condition your copy arrived in...perhaps they'll be able to do something for you.
As for the lack of contact...it is very strange, but the fact that so many people *did* get updates does probably mean there was an issue with your email address...either the submission of the address got screwed up somehow or maybe even your account was somehow rejecting their emails. For example, I do know some email services reject Dakka's automated emails (like when people forget their password and need a new one emailed to them), and sometimes these rejections don't seem to even go into a spam folder, people (at least tell me) that they never get them.
So long story short, it could be an answer as simple as that, although it certainly doesn't help your damaged product.
I do indeed accept that it is quite possible that I made a mistake inputting my email address into their system whilst placing my order.
However that thought did occurr to me which is why I have sent 3 emails to both Codex Pictures and Create Distribution asking them to confirm that they had recieved my order. However I never got a response to these either, despite giving several alternate email addresses.
It is possible that my email account rejected their reply. I have checked my junk mail etc and there is nothing there.
It's just very odd, I know quite a few people who have ordered their copies and there has been a bit of a split concerning service.
Some have been in the same position as myself, with absolutely no communication at all, whilst others have recieved very good, professional service.
I think I will give Codex the benefit of the doubt on this one, but really do recommend that in future they package their product in a more suitable manner. Something akin to the boxes Amazon or HMV would have been better. Had this just been a standard DVD then it would have been fine, but as the Metal Case and Graphic Novel come in a nice card slipcase a jiffy bag just wasn't suitable. MY card case is badly dented and ripped in places which is a shame as I will now want to exchange it.
Anyway, at least I have my copy. Sorry if I have come across as a bit negative, I do really support this as a product, and appreciate all the effort that Codex have put into this. I think I was just a bit gutted when I opened my copy to find it damaged. I am still excited about watching it again though!!
Still waiting for mine to be delivered, was supposedly dispatched on Thursday. Hoping it arrives by tomorrow as from Wednesday I'm working through to Christmas, and want to enjoy it on a day off!
Well. Mine turned up today and it was worth the wait. The animation isn't Hollywood standard and there are scan lines when the action moves too fast (at least on a computer, not seen it on a tv yet)... but it's well written and a highly enjoyable watch. I'm very glad I ordered it
Certainly a great first step; I hope they do more in the future. To be honest, I'd also like to see a Warhammer one done; I think a Mathias Thulmann story would work nicely.
Agreed. The atmosphere they brought over was brilliantly done. I liked the fact that it is truly done for the fans as it doesn't explain to those who don't know the universe.
Honestly the price and what I got for the collectors edition was a little on the high side. The story was bland for my tastes but then again it is 40k, and I really got the feeling of it in the movie. Overall I personally give 2 1/2 out of 5 stars, but it was injoyable for what it was. I remember watching inquistor years ago (if you don't know what that is then look it up...live action 40k movie they produced), and all I kept thinking while watching this one was "That sounds like bolter fire, WE MUST GO BACK!!!!".
Yeah, it's not a good movie 40k aside. But, similarly, most BL books would not be worth reading if not for the license. (Even the much-adored Dmebski-Bowden is mostly good because he's good at 40k.) And so you can't look at it just as a movie; that's not its proper context. To me, it's more clearly an experiment about how to approach making 40k movies and I'd say it's a mostly successful one. Do they act like SMs? Yep. Do they sound like SMs (and still manage to be somewhat distinct)? Yep. Do you believe that this is genuinely 40k on the screen? Yep. That's what matters here. The pace-padding and lack of coherent antagonist until late in the plot can be worked out in future projects with bigger budgets or more effective corner-cutting.
Fully agree with you Manchu, and don't percieve that I won't watch it again because well I probably will a thousand times. Heck I used to own a funny spoof movie called "The Gamer" which was horrible but funny because of how it made fun of DND and other such things.
Seeing all these review that are cropping up is really starting to loosen my grip on 40$, Clips on the site look excellent to! Bolter sound, Spot on for my tastes.
It was 4AM. I had spent the last eight hours trying to assemble a Lord of Change and was still nowhere close to done. Although exhausted with rage, I could not sleep. I put on the UM movie for the first time. Not only did I not fall asleep, I was so pleased that I smiled through the whole movies and went on to watch the disc-two extras (and then fell asleep). In my book, it was a success.
Question: Would you view this with a wife/partner who isn't at all into 40k? My wife quite likes Sci-Fi type stuff (she loved Transformers and all that clag) however she has remained immune to my 40K overtures. Is this the sort of film that a 40K novice can sit through and get a feel of the background and mythos or would I be sat there with her squirming with embarrassment?
filbert wrote:Question: Would you view this with a wife/partner who isn't at all into 40k? My wife quite likes Sci-Fi type stuff (she loved Transformers and all that clag) however she has remained immune to my 40K overtures. Is this the sort of film that a 40K novice can sit through and get a feel of the background and mythos or would I be sat there with her squirming with embarrassment?
If she likes Sci-fi, I'd say go for it. The animation is decent, the voice acting is great and the story has some nice twists and turns to it. At 70 minutes, the thing is over pretty quickly so even if she hates it she won't be suffering for that long.
But ultimately I do think it plays out pretty straight-forward as a sci-fi tale of super-human monastic space marines fighting against corruptive evil. She won't know who the 'emperor' is they keep talking about or exactly what 'Chaos' is, but the overtures are there enough for her to connect the dots in a general way (that the Emperor is someone who the Marines respect/worship and that Chaos is freaky, evil and corruptive).
filbert wrote:Question: Would you view this with a wife/partner who isn't at all into 40k? My wife quite likes Sci-Fi type stuff (she loved Transformers and all that clag) however she has remained immune to my 40K overtures. Is this the sort of film that a 40K novice can sit through and get a feel of the background and mythos or would I be sat there with her squirming with embarrassment?
If she likes Sci-fi, I'd say go for it. The animation is decent, the voice acting is great and the story has some nice twists and turns to it. At 70 minutes, the thing is over pretty quickly so even if she hates it she won't be suffering for that long.
But ultimately I do think it plays out pretty straight-forward as a sci-fi tale of super-human monastic space marines fighting against corruptive evil. She won't know who the 'emperor' is they keep talking about or exactly what 'Chaos' is, but the overtures are there enough for her to connect the dots in a general way (that the Emperor is someone who the Marines respect/worship and that Chaos is freaky, evil and corruptive).
Many thanks for the answer. You have convinced me, Mr Face. I shall order my copy forthwith!
Got the mail that is was shipped last week on the 8th and no movie yet hopefully it will arrive within the net 2-3 days, otherwise I'll start to get worried.
@filbert: I've been thinking of watching it with the Missus, who likes scifi just enough to turn on Star Wars once and a while when I'm not around. But my conclusion is, probably better not to. She will see it as a movie instead of a "40k movie" and be totally unimpressed. I once tried to lend a mate the BL anthology "Let the Galaxy Burn." He gave it back in less than a week with no apologies about not trying to get through a story (while berating me for not adoring his beloved George Martin, *barf*) and has never shown the briefest glimmer of interest in 40k since. I think one has to like 40k as a fictional world first to enjoy these sort of things rather than be put off.
Manchu wrote:@filbert: I've been thinking of watching it with the Missus, who likes scifi just enough to turn on Star Wars once and a while when I'm not around. But my conclusion is, probably better not to. She will see it as a movie instead of a "40k movie" and be totally unimpressed. I once tried to lend a mate the BL anthology "Let the Galaxy Burn." He gave it back in less than a week with no apologies about not trying to get through a story (while berating me for not adoring his beloved George Martin, *barf*) and has never shown the briefest glimmer of interest in 40k since. I think one has to like 40k as a fictional world first to enjoy these sort of things rather than be put off.
Oh I agree, but its somewhat of a chicken and egg situation. I mean, how to get someone introduced to and acquainted with the fictional universe in the first place? I figured the film might be a better option since she isn't much of a reader.
Between the missus and your mates, the missus is the more captive audience (not to be all Borat about it). It might do to have her read an especially good short story. As much as I like this movie myself, I can't imagine it being enjoyable to adults who are not already interested in 40k whereas some of the 40k short fiction could turn on mild scifi fans otherwise innocent of the grimdark. My advice is that if she like a short story then show her the film. Of course, this only works if she's willing to read scifi at all.
AAAAAAAAaaaahhhhhhhhh!!! rage!!!! i pre ordered this thing ages ago and sill havent received it! i've just read through this entire topic and loads of people have got it, now i have faith that it will turn up at some point but this stinks- its like rolling for reinforcements and getting nothing but 1's!
Got mine yesterday. Cant say Im happy with the animation, I understand the feel they were going for but they should have talked to the guys at THQ to clean it up. I did not get the impression the Space Marines were these stalwart, superhumans either. They seemed like regular guys with armor and big guns. More could have been done with that movie.
Enough of my limited complaints. The voice acting was good, story was good and it was nice to see a feature length movie with SM fighting it out. I think the potential is there for the company to either step up their game with another movie release (please flesh out the world instead of wasteland...so bland). Hopefully they will add in regular humans to give a feel for not only size but awe of beiing around SM.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Okay, having seen it I can say it has been worth every penny I paid for it. A bit of a slow starter that takes some time speeding up but when you get there:
Still no sign of mine! Got the email on the 9th. £8 postage was definately a rip-off! Good job I won't have time to enjoy it until Christmas Day now anyway, if it arrives by then of course
Mine came today. I was pleasantly surprised by how good the animation quality is, with a few exceptions:
When they are just walking down hallways, it looks off in 2 spots.
Spoiler:
When the daemon appears at the end, he's so ill-proportioned
that both my wife and i cracked up laughing.
But you'd really have to be lookign for flaws to notice them. It was well done and worth the money, I think. The art book on the other hand: well executed, but the art is sort of poor.
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
filbert wrote:Question: Would you view this with a wife/partner who isn't at all into 40k? My wife quite likes Sci-Fi type stuff (she loved Transformers and all that clag) however she has remained immune to my 40K overtures. Is this the sort of film that a 40K novice can sit through and get a feel of the background and mythos or would I be sat there with her squirming with embarrassment?
The latter. My wife thought it was terrible, but she hates nearly everything anyway. They also explain absolutely nothing, which I appreciated but she did not. Kind of a difficult watch if you don't know what the warp is, or who the Emperor is, for example.
Finally arrived about 30 minutes ago. Unfortunately in 20 minutes I have to head off to sell little plastic Ultramarines and with today being Thursday won't be home until late. So might watch it tomorrow after work.
Have to say the packaging is nice though, very impressed with the case.
What might explain the delay is it's been shipped from Guernsey. Not a million miles away, but knowing how bad the post can be in the UK, adding an origin point on an island just adds to the pain!
I just wanted to say that I received a private message from Codex on Warseer apologising for the break down in communications and how to sort out my damaged box etc.
It sounds like they are working very hard to rectify the problems, and I get the impression they might make an announcement as to what's happened once they are nearer to sorting it out.
We're very sorry to hear that some of you are still waiting to receive your DVDs, and that some of you have yet to receive an email confirming shipment. Our fulfilment houses have been working flat out getting your orders out to you: all orders placed up to December 14th 2010 have now been dispatched.
Well first impressions of the film before I forget them
Spoiler:
Not great the animation is fairly poor so far and I certainly do not like the way that the Captain and Apothecary look ancient. Their service studs show they are not that old and I was always under the impression that Space Marines did not age in the same way as humans. The animation of the Thuderhawk is truly terrible. Also why is there only one tactical squad + a captain and they still have a company banner? Furthermore what is all this bollocks about first time combat Marines have seen years of combat before they are ever a full battle brother. This just seems far away from accepted fluff to me but on we go.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well was that worth the money probably not but it was quite enjoyable.
What did the movie show?
Spoiler:
Chaos Power Armour is gak, a battle barge can be used to transport a squad around, a Space Marine doesn't do much combat before becoming a battle brother and then after one mission is suddenly some kind of veteran. Imperial Fists are pussys. The story line was ok but generally I was very disappointed and feel that there could have been a much better job done. it is a shame GW did not support this company because I think that there was the potential for an excellent movie with a bit more funding and a better understanding of 40K. Maybe it is me maybe I am wrong about fluff but I doubt I would buy anything else from codex pictures unless they receive a lot more support from gw.
Well, I got mine a few days ago (arrived on my birthday, woot) and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn't even mind the slow start because the atmosphere was great.
Anyways, to anyone who has received their movie, is there a paper inside the metal DVD case? Inside, mine had the two DVDs on the right and clips on the left (where there is usually a scene guide or something), but nothing was there.
Fiend wrote:Well, I got mine a few days ago (arrived on my birthday, woot) and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn't even mind the slow start because the atmosphere was great.
Anyways, to anyone who has received their movie, is there a paper inside the metal DVD case? Inside, mine had the two DVDs on the right and clips on the left (where there is usually a scene guide or something), but nothing was there.
Nope... no insert. Scene guides were very prevalent in the early days of DVD, but have fallen out of favor. No ads or anything else inside either. I think it is very nice packaging and enjoyed the film! I'll be hoping for another 40K film from Codex in the future.
A tip to people going "EH!?" on the plot / squad setup. / whys this happening
READ THE COMIC.
it explains it, but is still a little bit "off" but meh, its a 40k movie. the first of hopefully many. Im quite glad the "graphics" arn't as good as say, Avatar, we have so much more room to expand now and the bigger companys have been shown "thats the way to do grim-dark, now put more £££ in it".
/Rant off
Sorry about that. And before people think im a fanboy - Never collected a Space marine army in my life and now i only play flames of war
Peace out!
Edit: Sorry to hear you guys havent got it yet, but the wether's got royal mail in a hissy fit, heres hoping they arrive soon!
Ok, so just finished watching it. What can I say...
Ok, I'll start with the animation. It is better than the trailer had led me to believe. That doesn't make it good animation, but it's certainly better than what I thought it was going to be. The main problem with the animation is that it suffers from what a lot of 3D animated shows suffer from - a frictionless environment with no gravity. What I mean by that is everything moves too fast, and nothing feels like it has any weight. It's evident right from the start with the sparring session between Pertwee's character and the Captain. Movements are slightly too quick, don't carry any impact, and it feels like everything is floating. This is further exacerbated during the final fight, with Marines flying everywhere almost as if it was a low-G environment,a nd then sliding or clattering across the floor as though everything was covered in oil.
But my main issues with the animation were technical - the lighting for one thing. It was very dark in a lot of places, and that obscured a lot of things. Only when they were aboard the Thunderhawk was there enough light to see anything. They also used too many overlays of fire or smoke to compensate for the animation's quality. The faces looked fine - certainly nothing Blur level, probably... a bit better than Diablo II, if any'a y'all remember that.
The story was fine (even if you can make a dozen parallels with Aliens and half a dozen other stories). I liked the build up of tension, even in the instances where the foreshadowing was obvious (the Thunder Hammer, especially - they were never not going to come back to that) and the pacing was fine. The movie didn't feel short (as I feared it would) nor did it overstay its welcome and carry on too long. I liked the characterisation as well. The Apothecary was especially good, with the two good lines he got "The Emperor protects, but it doesn't hurt to check twice" and "The Emperor Protects, but a loaded Bolter helps". The Marines were suitably "Marine-like", equal parts heroic glory hounds, high-speak spouting knights and deadly primitive thugs. The rivalries made sense, and at no point did I feel like they weren't real (animation oddities aside).
I liked the twist. I thought it would turn out to be the single remaining Imp Fist Marine (seeing the Chaplain as too obvious a Red Herring). When he screamed I thought "ok, here we go, transformation scene coming!", but no... it was different to that. And that's good. It meant that the foreshadowing from the very start - even the helmet smash - all got a pay-off. And that's good.
The Bolters felt cool. Probably the best example of Bolters since... Chaos Gate. The main difference between the Bolters in Chaos Gate and in Ultramarines is that it took about about 10 shots to even crack the armour on a Chaos Marine in Chaos Gate. Here they were shooting HE uranium depleted slugs... how else were they cutting through the Black Legion Marines? But, again, it's not a huge issue - the Black Legion were a means to an end, a distraction and not a real threat, designed to whittle the squad down to the point where the real threat could leave without being discovered.
The Flamer guy... I guess he just liked lighting fires. The amount of times he shot that thing while walking down dark hallways was annoying. And the Landspeeder was awesome! It didn't do much, but I loved seeing one zip around on screen.
Overall the single greatest downside to this film is the completely lack of interest GW has shown in it. Maybe now GW will put a little grunt work of their own to cross-promote these things in the future. They're a company with their own chain of retail stores across the world for feth's sake and they think that their only role in such an endeavour is to collect the cheque at the end for the license rights they sold. If anyone in their promotions and marketing department had even half a brain their most recent issue of White Dwarf would have "Ultramarines - The Movie" as it's front cover, have interviews with the makers, the cast, a look at the film, a special movie-based scenario for people to play with rules for the main characters and - because they are a miniature company after all - a Ltd. Ed. boxed set with a metal model for each of the main characters (the exact same thing they should have done with the HQ's from Dark Crusade). But no, for GW all this means to them is more $$$ with no effort, when even the slightest bit of effort (White Dwarf) would allow them to further increase the sales.
Overall I'm giving this a solid 7/10. It's a 6/10, 5 being 'Average' and 6 being 'Above Average', and it gets a 7 because it impressed me far more than I thought it would.
Thank you man, A decent contrictive post about the movie in its entirety, i feel the same way you do on most matters, and on the ones i dont feel the same there too trivial to bring up further. Now, im going to go watch it for the 6th time.
I don't see why you had a rant at people that don't like the movie at the end of the day I paid £35 for something that was worth about £5 IMO. I am perfectly entitled to think that it was not up to scratch regardless of the fact that it was a small company doing a good job without support - how sad, so sad - get better. I have no sympathy what so ever if you put a product out on the market at an inflated price then expect criticism that is what happens in a free market. I have read the comic and I still think there are gaping floors in the fluff.
Ed_Bodger wrote:I don't see why you had a rant at people that don't like the movie at the end of the day I paid £35 for something that was worth about £5 IMO.
In a surprise of all surprises, it actually arrived today.
Came in from Guernsey in a Standard Delivery 'jiffy bag' (or packaging envelope to those that don't know the word.
The card sleeve is actually fine although the cardboard box has a bit of a gouge bumped out of it above the 'Special' in 'Special Edition Collectors set.'
The comic seems fine, short of course, but that's no real surprise. And amazingly, I actually have both disks.
I'm just about to go downstairs and put it on now.
As for the physics in the movie, primarily during the big final fight scene, they are basically "comic book" super-hero physics and since 40K is basically comic-book super-hero material at its core I really didn't have a problem with it. The strength and abilities of huge supernatural monsters are whatever the creators want them to be, it's fantasy.
Let's not start nitpicking each other's spelling or otherwise hectoring and being unpleasant with one another.
One of my gaming buddies held a viewing party for it last night; about a dozen of us quite enjoyed it accompanied by beer and snacks and a fair number of MST3K style comments.
Overall I agree with Yakface and HBMC's reviews. A bit better than expected; disappointing mostly in minor ways. Overall not bad considering the budget, and definitely a fun watch with friends over beer.
Manchu wrote:Between the missus and your mates, the missus is the more captive audience (not to be all Borat about it). It might do to have her read an especially good short story. As much as I like this movie myself, I can't imagine it being enjoyable to adults who are not already interested in 40k whereas some of the 40k short fiction could turn on mild scifi fans otherwise innocent of the grimdark. My advice is that if she like a short story then show her the film. Of course, this only works if she's willing to read scifi at all.
I got to watch it at my local gaming hangout- My personal copy is under our tree. I hope my family will watch it with me. I know my youngest daughter is interested (we'll see) and my oldest .... we'll maybe if there was a boy her age watching it too....
I doubt my Mrs. will give it all her attention.
BrassScorpion wrote:As for the physics in the movie, primarily during the big final fight scene, they are basically "comic book" super-hero physics and since 40K is basically comic-book super-hero material at its core I really didn't have a problem with it.
Yeah, but no. That was due to bad animation, not 'comic book style' combat. As I said, you see this in a lot of animated things and especially in amateur or low-budget shows (even Roughnecks and some Clone Wars eps have this this problem). It doesn't take much to give your animated characters some weight and make them feel real rather than 3D models slipping through a frictionless environment. Hell even I've done that in animation and I'm about as amateur as you can get.
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Rhich wrote:I know my youngest daughter is interested (we'll see) and my oldest .... we'll maybe if there was a boy her age watching it too....
I doubt my Mrs. will give it all her attention.
How old is your youngest daughter? I ask because there are Chainsword scalpings and squirting head-wounds in this film.
BrassScorpion wrote:As for the physics in the movie, primarily during the big final fight scene, they are basically "comic book" super-hero physics and since 40K is basically comic-book super-hero material at its core I really didn't have a problem with it.
Yeah, but no. That was due to bad animation, not 'comic book style' combat. As I said, you see this in a lot of animated things and especially in amateur or low-budget shows (even Roughnecks and some Clone Wars eps have this this problem). It doesn't take much to give your animated characters some weight and make them feel real rather than 3D models slipping through a frictionless environment. Hell even I've done that in animation and I'm about as amateur as you can get.
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Rhich wrote:I know my youngest daughter is interested (we'll see) and my oldest .... we'll maybe if there was a boy her age watching it too....
I doubt my Mrs. will give it all her attention.
How old is your youngest daughter? I ask because there are Chainsword scalpings and squirting head-wounds in this film.
My youngest daughter is 12… and believe you me.. she’d watched movies that I would “flinch at”
My oldest is 19 and it’s either “boys” or Facebook or, boys… or …. Facebook.
Ed_Bodger wrote:Furthermore what is all this bollocks about first time combat Marines have seen years of combat before they are ever a full battle brother. This just seems far away from accepted fluff to me but on we go
I am not sure if what side you are on with this. It's more than one option in a sentence. Are yo saying that a recruit does not get to be a Battle Brother or what?
It is a shame GW did not support this company because I think that there was the potential for an excellent movie with a bit more funding and a better understanding of 40K. Maybe it is me maybe I am wrong about fluff but I doubt I would buy anything else from codex pictures unless they receive a lot more support from gw.
I am bothered by this. How do you know GW did not support this?
Considering that Codex Pictures could never be given the go ahead to do a film without GW permission the statement you give is slightly bewildering. Plus they released statements which said
Commenting on the news, Erik Mogensen, Licensing and Acquired Rights Manager for Games Workshop, said, “Over the years, we have been approached again and again by all sorts of producers and film companies wanting to take our intellectual property to the screen. We have always believed that, in the right hands, the stories, themes and characters from the Warhammer 40,000 universe would lend themselves perfectly to the movie genre. We’re working closely with the talented team at Codex Pictures, who have an excellent understanding of the Warhammer 40,000 intellectual property and an inspired vision for the movie. We can’t wait to see our universe come to life on-screen.”
“We’re hugely honoured to be making Ultramarines,” said a spokesman for Codex Pictures. “It’s taken a lot of research and development to get to this stage – and it’s such an exciting challenge to be able to bring the depth and power of the Warhammer 40,000 universe to a brand new medium.”
Ok first point I am saying the film makes it quite clear that the newly created battle brothers are all nervous about going into combat for the first time despite the fact they have been scouts. It is widely accepted that a marine will see years or combat as a scout before they are raised to the status of full battle brother so these nerves are unrealistic.
SecondCodex pictures were permitted to make the film by GW but were given very little support by GW in terms of finance and resources. This was expressed in several interviews with staff members. Unfortunately I can't find the link for these or I would post them.
Ed_Bodger wrote:Ok first point I am saying the film makes it quite clear that the newly created battle brothers are all nervous about going into combat for the first time despite the fact they have been scouts.
Is it unreasonable to think they'd be nervous about going to into combat for the first time as Marines?
I would say so, they now have better armour, better weapons etc and it is not portrayed as a few butterflies but as a group of rookies being in a dangerous situation for the first time.
Ed is correct, they have, according to the fluff, served in hundreds of battles as scouts, then in many engagements on Bikes, THEN they serve as part of a devastator squad! Hardly going to be nervous after all of that are you?
The resources are all out there in the land of Games Workshop in terms of hundreds of books and codices, Dan Abnett was the writer of the script for the film so it is hardly a case of being left with no resources considering he IS the main resource of The Horus Heresey and Gaunts Ghosts. Arguably what he doesn't know about 40K hasn't yet been written.
Don't forget the business aspect, Codex Pictures says "Hi, I want to do a Space Marines movie, give me money". ANY business, no matter how big will say "Poke off, you want to make a movie, risk your own money but here are the legal rights to use our brand."
There is a lot of speculation over how much GW make from this but people need to understand how business works before they jump in and say GW haven't helped.
Why should GW risk money on a venture thay don't particularly need in this economic climate? Plus the profit margins will be tight to say the least on such a first time venture. The disc price is ridiculous considering a big budget brand new film release is half the price of this but that is what they need in order to recoup the costs!
Elmodiddly wrote:Ed is correct, they have, according to the fluff, served in hundreds of battles as scouts, then in many engagements on Bikes, THEN they serve as part of a devastator squad! Hardly going to be nervous after all of that are you?
Except these one's clearly did not serve in a Dev Squad. This is their first mission in Power Armour, and I don't think it is unrealistic to have a group of Marines being nervous about their first combat in power armour, especially one where they've been chosen to act as a retinue for their Captain.
Linkdead wrote:This was one of the worst movies I have ever seen.
Hooray for Internet Hyperbole!
The plot was horrible
The voice acting horrible
The animation horrible
Normally you would only need one of the above three to be considered a decent movie. The animation is just laughably bad for this day and age. As for the plot, I didn't think it was possible to make Space Marines shooting Spikey Space Marines boring and outright tedious. If you enjoyed this movie their is a lot of fine cinema on the Sci-Fi channel that you would love to watch.
I saw it, it was better than I thought it would be, but considering I thought it would be a steaming pile that isn't saying much.
Spoilery review specifics -
Spoiler:
Story: Basic but servicable. However, I really felt a lot of it was out of character, UM's being bratty and pretty much insubordinate does not sit too well with me. Not to mention being nervous when they should have years upon years of experience as scouts. I also felt that they could have been a bit more explicit with some backstory elements, without my pre-existing knowledge, I don't think the movie makes much sense to the uninitiated. My wife sure as hell had no idea what was going on lol.
Graphics: Some spots were actually pretty serviceable if the lighting was right! Others were pretty horrendous. Transformers: Prime CGI was better and more consistent. Major problems included overall texturing, especially on skin and rocks, lighting glitches and low detail on many objects.
Worst part of Graphics: The 2D compositing was horrendous. The fire and smoke effects were overused and visciously cropped and poorly blended into the scenes. 2 or 3 parts had me really wondering how the hell they let it through like that, I know how to do this stuff, fixing it would NOT have been that hard, a few hours work, literally.
Animation: Same as graphics, some descent stuff, some horrendously poor mocap and scene integration. Really a mixed bag.
Voice acting: Overall very well done. Not gonna lie.
Voice Scripting: If they said 'And we shall know no fear' one more time I was about to hurricane kick my screen. Overall, not too bad either, although I had problems with a lot of it not because it was inherently bad, but because it didn't fit my idea of how marines would speak and interact based on my years and years of Fluff and BL fluff. That's just me though.
Niggling things that bugged me - Bolts did not explode. No noises when helmets were put on, 12 man squad with company standard? huh? Black legion were a faceless and wasted enemy for me. Captain possessed, but how? Doesn't seem consistent with Daemon fluff to me. Complete lack of outside characters, would have liked to have seen some more non-marine people running around. Wtf was up with the 'spell' the chaplain cast with his Crozius, am I missing something? Apothecary and Captain looked too damned old. Faces were not particularly muscly or enhanced human looking, as mentioned in most fluff. Power Armor did not seem to make noise or enhance the users much, any hit shown pretty much pierced the armor and gibbed them.
Despite what may seem like an overwhelmingly negative review, I think most 40k fans will probably enjoy the movie (and will pretend to like it a lot more than they did though), with a lesser but not insignificant proportion despising it (and not pretending at all).
Favorite moment:
After the DP cored that UM's brain out of his head, along with the entire back of the skull, and the Apothecary examines him and says 'Head Wound..."
No Gak Sherlock LOL
D at it's worst, C- at it's best for me. To those who enjoyed it, good on ya I'm glad you got your money's worth!
Elmodiddly wrote:Ed is correct, they have, according to the fluff, served in hundreds of battles as scouts, then in many engagements on Bikes, THEN they serve as part of a devastator squad! Hardly going to be nervous after all of that are you?
Except these one's clearly did not serve in a Dev Squad. This is their first mission in Power Armour, and I don't think it is unrealistic to have a group of Marines being nervous about their first combat in power armour, especially one where they've been chosen to act as a retinue for their Captain.
I'd be nervous too about going into combat in a bulky suit of power armor when it can't even stop a bolter round. At least in Scout carapace armor,you present a smaller target profile and can make better use of cover. As ineffective as power armor is in the movie,it's hard to understand why they'd bother with it at all.
Ah good it wasn't just me that thought the marines looked to old, the crozius didn't work as a power weapon, the animations was the equivalent of computer games five years ago and as I mentioned numerous times Battle Brothers looked like a load of naked 18 year old virgin school girls released into an army barracks at the end of WW2. Regardless whether it was their first time in power armour after years of fighting they should not have been that rookie. Finally why did they have the company banner? If Captain whatsisname had left the bulk of the second company on the other planet why wasn't the banner with them? There is no way a rookie squad would be carrying it.
Finally got around to watching the movie myself... While his lack of "spoiler" tags is lamentable, I have to agree with a lot of Majortom11's comments.
I wasn't put off as much by the graphics as he was. Although, to be honest, I wasn't as concerned about that as others going in. A good story and good acting can make up for a lot on the graphics side. Unfortunately, they didn't quite nail the story part.
But I'd agree with the concerns about "niggling" issues...
Spoiler:
As others have pointed out, you'd expect less "nervousness" on the behalf of Ultramarines, even those recently promoted from the scouts. The scars on all the newbies certainly attest to a great deal of fighting as scouts. They were "gun ho" enough, I guess but even if they didn't stand a stint in the Devastators, you'd expect a little more in the way of confidence and steadiness.
An Apothecary talking back to, and openly questioning the orders of, his Captain?!?! Really? I could see that on a private chat circuit between the two if they had come up through the ranks together, but we don't have the backstory to know if they have that sort of relationship. And regardless, I just can't see an Apothecary challenging a Captain like that.
The preliminary battles were, uh, odd. The Land Speeder crew getting capped without any warning? And then, after each engagement, all of the UMs kind of stop and chat. I guess they saw the script and knew that engagement was over and there was no enemy in the area. Perhaps, a la Space Balls, they had a bootleg copy of the movie... But that really contributed to a sense that the Ultras weren't in mortal danger. I know Marines know no fear and all that, but it just didn't feel like they were in (or recognized that they were in) and real danger. Without that sense, the plot rings a bit hollow.
That was complicated by the, basically, ad hoc nature of the engagements the Ultras fought in. There was no real rhyme or reason to how/when the battles started/stopped. A couple of Black Legionnaires ambush the Ultras, but then there's a complete break in action. Until the Daemon ambushes them. Then there's a complete break in action until the Black Legion makes it's en masse charge. There was no real sense, to me, that they were all tied together into a coherent story. Far to much like a bad game of old-school Dungeons and Dragons where the DM just rolled on a chart to see what was in each room the adventures entered without any real sense that they were in a "real" environment.
Then there were the amazingly poor tactics by the Ultras. Like when the two were sent ahead to find a way into the Fists' fortress, they acted as if there was no possibility of enemy action, to the point of taunting each other without keeping an eye out for any enemy. I half expected to see the lead guy (apologies for not remembering his name) to get his head removed when he made the last leap across that ruined bridge and then didn't even stop to check out the road ahead before turning his back on the way ahead. From their depiction in the movie, I just couldn't buy that they were humanity's ultimate warriors.
As others have pointed out, Power Armor looked pretty much useless. I'd've liked to have seen some (say, 2/3rds worth?) "hits" that the armor stopped. Especially in the charge by the Black Legion. That was also complicated by the Marines not really showing the durability you'd expect from Astartes. Just about every hit was a kill it seemed.
Speaking of which, how many BL did the Ultras kill as the BL blindly charged in? Black Legion is not World Eaters. Why would they charge blindly forward. It's not like the Ultras had lots of cover or anything. You'd expect Heresy-era Traitors to die a bit harder than they did. If the Ultras were fighting Orks, that scene would have worked perfectly. But Black Legion? Not so much. Just smacked of Uzi-jitsu. And that's lazy writing.
Then there's the Crozius thing. Perhaps the Chaplain was a Librarian at some point in the script development but Mr. Abnett forgot to tell the animators he changed things up? I have no idea. Silly choice from someone who knows the 40k universe that well. Or did C S Goto ghost-write some of the script?
I'm sure there are others that I'll remember after I wrap this up. None of the niggling details, alone, were that bad I guess, but for a movie whose claim to fame is it's unstinting devotion to the 40k universe, they really add up and really served to distract, at least for me, from the movie.
Not sad that I got it, but it was definitely not as good as I was hoping for. Animation was okay, and certainly for me not worth complaining about. The story was so-so, but fatally undermined by those little points where it just didn't "feel" like it was completely faithful to the 40k universe. The voice acting, considering the limitations of the medium was pretty decent.
There were details that I really did like, but they weren't frequent enough to outweigh the issues...
I'd probably give the movie a C- overall. As I've said, the graphics didn't pose a problem for me, so no knock on points there. The main thing that dragged it down were the details that failed to keep true to what one might expect in a movie that was supposed to be unstinting in its goal of being "true" to the 40k universe.
I hope Codex makes some more movies, and I'll probably buy their next effort (if it happens), but almost certainly not as the LE release. I'll be happy enough to wait.
it arrived. I watched. Film was ok, generally enjoyable and happy to have spent my money on the nice box set. However, £8 for the postage and packaging!!!
Additionally if you had read the comic you would realise these scouts have NOT trained on bikes nor as devestators, but are last minute replacements for Ultima squad. The comic also explains why the Strike Cruiser (not BB, ugh) is only transporting them - it was all tehy could spare from the Forgeworld 2nd company was defending. Yes, this could have been explained in-story, but it didnt need to be...
Link - you think the voice acting was horrible? Really? Thankfully your opinion is in the minority, as it really *wasnt* bad quality - it was actually very good. Not just "good for a low budget film" good, either, just VERY good. If you watch the extras you also see that the actors all got into their parts very well, which explains why the acting was good.
Age - the captain and apothecary are listed as 300 years old. Guess the service studs were wrong
The big problem they would have have with graphics is cost - the plugin by Square for Maya, which would have made the faces really "pop", is too much £££ AND has a steep learning curve. Given the resources they had that would have been too much of a stretch.
O verall this was a very good start - hopefully they will more than recoup costs, and can then look to build on this for the next film. It might make GW loose a little of the purse strings and help them more financially rather than jsut with studio time.
To people waiting: remember this is coming normal post (well, mine did) and the RM has a huuuuuge backlog due to the weather.
nosferatu1001 wrote:Ed - how did you pay £35? I paid £26....
Additionally if you had read the comic you would realise these scouts have NOT trained on bikes nor as devestators, but are last minute replacements for Ultima squad. The comic also explains why the Strike Cruiser (not BB, ugh) is only transporting them - it was all tehy could spare from the Forgeworld 2nd company was defending. Yes, this could have been explained in-story, but it didnt need to be...
I did read the comic and it does explain the strike cruiser point but it does not explain why they were so nervous. If anyone was nervous it should have been the newly promoted Sgt who had just had everyone else in his squad killed but as they keep banging on about 'we shall know no fear' I would assume nerves would have been a private thing they did not broadcast.
Where does it say the Captain and Apothecary are 300 years old?
Having watched it again it was a gak film that was not worth the money. Why it cost you £26 I don't know.
Ed_Bodger wrote:I did read the comic and it does explain the strike cruiser point
Then why raise it as a flaw?
Ed_Bodger wrote:but it does not explain why they were so nervous.
Because it was their first battle as front line Marines. Playing a completely different role to normal. Oh, and knowing they were only *12* marines going in against a foe that has apparently wiped out *100* marines. Knowing you are trying to save a priceless relic dating back to the time of the Emperor, and doing so with your company Captain in tow. Would you be at all nervous about that?
Ed_Bodger wrote:If anyone was nervous it should have been the newly promoted Sgt who had just had everyone else in his squad killed but as they keep banging on about 'we shall know no fear' I would assume nerves would have been a private thing they did not broadcast.
Nervousness is not the same as fear, for a start. They also only said it about 5 times, twice at a ceremony where that is part of litany. Sorry if that's too many
They didnt want clone marines. THat was the exact opposite of waht they wanted. The way they react to oncoming battles, with the bravado and the true nervousness underneath it, helps making them identifiable.
Ed_Bodger wrote:Where does it say the Captain and Apothecary are 300 years old?
In the extras, by the people playing them. It's also why the Apothecary was able to "talk back" - they were part of the same intake, just took different routes. (Note you infer this from their conversation, so if you wont paying attention you will miss it)
Ed_Bodger wrote:Having watched it again it was a gak film that was not worth the money.
Except it was a good quality film, not flawless but certainly better than average, with excellent voice actors who clearly gave a crap about the subject matter.
Ed_Bodger wrote:Why it cost you £26 I don't know.
£17.99 + £8 postage. Why did yours cost £9 more? There werent any different UK postage options....or was this more hyperbole to help inflate your spposed wasted money?
HBMC - damn having to agree with an Aussie, especially right now
Finally got my copy today! "just" 12 days after the confirmed shipping email. I had no isssue with any damages from lack of packeting and it arrived before christmas. So I guess I'm content aslong as the film was worth it(from what I know it should be).
Now I just have to wait for my friend to get here so we can watch it.
First of all I have just emailed the company asking why mine cost more, second I hated the film and thought it was poor quality, you saying you liked it is not going to change my opinion. Haven't watched the extras and have no intention of doing so watching the film twice has confirmed my opinion it is weak and not consistant with fluff - explain the bizare chaplain crozius power.
As an ex army officer I can say from experience that you are nervous going into combat and most of those nerves are based on fear, not just of death and injury but many things, however it is still fear. Therefore if they know no fear why are they nervous.
Finally the incident where they all assume that Proteus fires his bolter out of first battle nerves illustrates the fact that they are highly inexperienced according to all the fluff I have read this just would not happen.
You can say how much you like the film till the cows come home it is not going to change my enjoyment level or the fact that I believe I wasted money.
Regardless of the quality of the current film, it's no worse than what's done to the background on a daily basis on the Internet, and your money isn't wasted because the payment is towards them producing another (and hopefully higher-budgeted) film. Sometimes you have to support journeyman work, and if you're going to let imperfection get in the way of improvement, then why are you in this hobby? Why didn't you quit when you failed to paint your first model to the standard shown in the painting guide?
Nurglitch wrote: Why didn't you quit when you failed to paint your first model to the standard shown in the painting guide?
I don't quite understand your point here my painting improvement is personal development and as I improve I gain satisfaction from bettering myself and having created a better model. Paying money to someone for them to improve does not appeal to me. After all if I pay someone to decorate my house and they do a crap job I don't pay them to get better I get rid of them and get someone better in to do the job.
Ed_Bodger wrote:As an ex army officer I can say from experience that you are nervous going into combat and most of those nerves are based on fear, not just of death and injury but many things, however it is still fear. Therefore if they know no fear why are they nervous.
WTF man did you even watch the same movie that I did.
If you didnt buy it from tehre, at that price, you were doing something wrong.
Ed_Bodger wrote:
second I hated the film and thought it was poor quality, you saying you liked it is not going to change my opinion.
I dont need to change your opinion. I can however point out the flaws in your opinion and correct your inaccuracies, meaning that other people wont be influenced by them.
Ed_Bodger wrote:Haven't watched the extras and have no intention of doing so watching the film twice has confirmed my opinion it is weak and not consistant with fluff - explain the bizare chaplain crozius power.
"not consistent with fluff" - huh? Have you ever read BL stuff? Or compared different editions of the same army? If you're loloking for consistency with GW fluff, you're looking in the wrong place.
Plus, as has been explained, there is only one glaring difference to fluff - the crozius power. And that could be a cooler version of litanies of hate, essentially. Remember that in game /= only possible way to represent something.
Ed_Bodger wrote:As an ex army officer I can say from experience that you are nervous going into combat and most of those nerves are based on fear, not just of death and injury but many things, however it is still fear. Therefore if they know no fear why are they nervous.
Reread what you just wrote, and note how you have gone from "most" to "all". Mild fallacy there. I have given many sensible reasons other than simple "fear" why they would be nervous. Being nervous about living up to 10k years of expectations is NOT fear.
Ed_Bodger wrote:Finally the incident where they all assume that Proteus fires his bolter out of first battle nerves illustrates the fact that they are highly inexperienced according to all the fluff I have read this just would not happen.
Sigh. Does the fluff you have read mirror the events leading up to the scouts ascension to marines? No? Then a unique event (by your admission) produced different results - who would have thought it!
Ed_Bodger wrote:You can say how much you like the film till the cows come home it is not going to change my enjoyment level or the fact that I believe I wasted money.
You, personally have wasted some money as apparently you paid too much for the item (did you ship it somewhere other than UK??), some 35% more, wont watch the extras and apparently discount the comic, which explains some of the new squads behaviour really, really well, as being valid fluff. However the rest will hopefully go into making other, better films.
Sure, but the thing about painting your house is that there's no particularly company that owns the colour blue (or whatever colour scheme you plan to paint your house). House-painting is a competitive market, so you can afford to go somewhere else if the start-up you chose didn't do a good enough job.
House-painting is simply a bad analogy to film-making; there's too many discontinuities to draw any useful kind of comparison.
Take Warhammer 40,000, for example. I don't think people understand the incredible improvement in production values that GW has gone through. Improving production value is the only way they have to expand their audience, and there's a feedback loop involved whereby small improvements are accompanied by increased sales, and each set of improvements in one product line serves as a proof of concept for implementation in another line.
So there's a sweet spot, whereby the film is going to be good enough to pay for itself and serve as proof that there's a market for the 40,000 IP beyond games. Not enough sales and it's going to be evidence that pursuing film projects isn't worth it for any production house, and too many sales and it's going to be evidence that you can sell any old turd with a sufficient 40,000 gloss.
I don't think we have to worry about too many sales, but I do think we have to worry about too few sales.
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer any film to be strictly canonical, but the problem there is that the 40,000 canon itself is notoriously inconsistent, and the fans themselves have a tremendous variety of opinion on what exactly constitutes canon and what would be cool to see on film.
So far the 40,000 property has been very successful in a niche market, with some bits and pieces breaking through to the mass market. The First Heretic, for example, is incredible as Black Library publications go, but pretty run of the mill and small fry as even genre fiction goes.
Personally I find it amusing that such badly written books are lauded and land on bestseller lists (however briefly), but equally badly written films are reviled by dedicated fans.
Nurglitch wrote:
Personally I find it amusing that such badly written books are lauded and land on bestseller lists (however briefly), but equally badly written films are reviled by dedicated fans.
That's completely subjective man... I'm sorry but I think some of the BL books were actually pretty entertaining and on target for fluff, as well as being in general far more consistent with fluff. I wouldn't compare 'dawn of war' with 'Storm of Iron' for example. This movie was gak (to me) even compared to the limited succeses of Black Library. That's just my opinion, and you are every bit as entitled to yours, but the difference is I won't pass of my opinion as some factual scientifically verified law of the universe, which neither side of this debate should do.
No, it's really not subjective. You can enjoy bad writing, or find its content interesting, but that doesn't change the fact that it's bad writing. Bad writing includes things like inconsistent style, use of subject inappropriate colloquialisms, uneven rhythm, etc.
As for "scientifically verified law of the universe"... Do you know how I can tell you don't know either science or writing?
Empirical facts aren't things that can be verified. The rules of good writing are normative, like mathematics, ethics, and so on: they prescribe rather than describe, and it happens to be a fortuitous (and somewhat mysterious) fact of cognitive science as to why they work out so well.
Likewise what makes a good film is pretty well documented, if you've actually studied film and taken time away from your busy day doing important stuff like rendering and animation to consider stuff like composition et al formally rather than just winging it because that how stuff looks in films you've seen. That's leaving aside the story-telling element entirely. Mind you, if this forum was about quality books and film, we wouldn't be discussing 40,000, so I suppose it's a wash.
The deliberate anachronisms in Shakespeare are certainly not marks of inconsistent style and bad writing. Not that I'd compare this silly little comic-book movie to Shakespeare, Citizen Kane, or any other "classic" works of genius, but the point that what is "bad writing" and what is "good writing" is subjective. I enjoyed the film. It's not a work of genius, but for what it was supposed to be and given the budget I thought it was pretty good. People who hate this movie, as with anything 40K that draws fanatical hate from its own fans, is getting an awful lot of really angry "my point of view is the only correct one" posts in here lately. I predict this thread is not long for the chop by one of the MODS given that it has descended into ridiculous "nerd debate" and personal attacks. Unsubscribe (again).
Yeah, there's just something about deliberate anachronism that works. You know why? Because it's a consistency of style! The key-word is "deliberate". And, for reasons that may elude you, consistency of style is not a mark of inconsistency of style...
Nurglitch wrote:No, it's really not subjective. You can enjoy bad writing, or find its content interesting, but that doesn't change the fact that it's bad writing. Bad writing includes things like inconsistent style, use of subject inappropriate colloquialisms, uneven rhythm, etc.
As for "scientifically verified law of the universe"... Do you know how I can tell you don't know either science or writing?
Empirical facts aren't things that can be verified. The rules of good writing are normative, like mathematics, ethics, and so on: they prescribe rather than describe, and it happens to be a fortuitous (and somewhat mysterious) fact of cognitive science as to why they work out so well.
Likewise what makes a good film is pretty well documented, if you've actually studied film and taken time away from your busy day doing important stuff like rendering and animation to consider stuff like composition et al formally rather than just winging it because that how stuff looks in films you've seen. That's leaving aside the story-telling element entirely. Mind you, if this forum was about quality books and film, we wouldn't be discussing 40,000, so I suppose it's a wash.
You know how I can tell you put the ass in assumption? Talking down to people while you have very little idea what their background or experience is, while slinging absolutes around like it's going out of style.
You want an argument, fine. You say it's not subjective. I DISAGREE. Your like or dislike of anything creative the very definition of subjective. There are no absolute rules for creativity, in fact, absolute rules would destroy true creativity in favor of endless iteration. There are guidelines and standards sure, but in general, the sum can indeed be more or less than the sum of it's parts, especially to individual tastes.
Unverifiable empirical facts aside, it makes no matter. We aren't talking about the existence of dark matter, quantum tunneling, string theory or any other form of physics that can be mathematically proven (in varying degrees in varying circumstances) but not physically observed in lab conditions. I am happy you are so impressed with yourself for your memorization of scientific terminology and tenuos grasp of it's relationship with practical philosophy and the arts, but we are talking about people liking or disliking a cg cartoon about space soldiers.
I think under the tightest scrutiny from a panel of experts, this movie would not be looked upon favorably in any way shape or form. But guess what, some fans like it despite that. By the 'rules' though, it is gak from top to bottom. Some BL books fall much more comfortably into the 'guidelines' of literature than this film does into the 'guidelines' of movie making. And your degree of liking or disliking either of them is not a rule the rest of us must follow. Just my opinion, but I think most would agree with me there.
PARAGRAPH REDACTED BY THE MODQUISITION FOR FLAMING.
Mods, I hope you leave this in, the gentleman only received a response in equal tone to his own.
If you have an issue with a poster's tone, hit Alert Moderator. If you feel you must respond, keep your own response as polite as you can make it. Your argument will be more convincing, and you will do a better job of showing that the other person is out of line, if so. Two wrongs do not make a right. Much less escalating it by flaming.
I think under the tightest scrutiny from a panel of experts, this movie would not be looked upon favorably in any way shape or form. But guess what, some fans like it despite that. By the 'rules' though, it is gak from top to bottom. Some BL books fall much more comfortably into the 'guidelines' of literature than this film does into the 'guidelines' of movie making. And your degree of liking or disliking either of them is not a rule the rest of us must follow. Just my opinion, but I think most would agree with me there.
I certainly agree with you MajorTom, I have just run out of bothered to argue with either or them.
Edit. Going to re-open now. Private warnings have been issued. Everyone is now put on notice. Further breaches of Dakka Rule #1 on this thread, either directly or indirectly via sly remark, will be taken as prima facae evidence that the poster wants to be suspended at least through the Christmas vacation. I gak you not.
Nurglitch wrote:Sometimes you have to support journeyman work, and if you're going to let imperfection get in the way of improvement, then why are you in this hobby? Why didn't you quit when you failed to paint your first model to the standard shown in the painting guide?
So, basically, you're saying that anyone can make a really bad film and people buy it because next time it will be better?
Doesn't cut it.
What about that set of Chaos Marines you bought? (for example) But it's OK that they are lumps of lard with the fingers of a jazz player but next time they'll get it right.
Investors put in money expecting a return, they don't put in money saying "Oooh don't wory about this one but next time we loan you money it'll be worth it".
Codex pictures made a film which people watched and commented that the quality was not right, that the lighting and effects made it hard to see, that the animation wasn't quite right and there were plot holes you could sink the Titanic into. People don't buy things expecting the second iteration to be better. They expect it to work first time. That isn't being unrealistic, especially when the price is double what a brand new released film is!
I agree with Nurglitch that it's difficult to see how someone can enjoy BL books--even the better ones--and trash this movie. In terms of writing, I'd say that they are very comparabale (if not strictly equivalent, given that novels and scripts need to work at considerably different paces).
Manchu wrote:I agree with Nurglitch that it's difficult to see how someone can enjoy BL books--even the better ones--and trash this movie. In terms of writing, I'd say that they are very comparabale (if not strictly equivalent, given that novels and scripts need to work at considerably different paces).
I really don't see how one could feel the writing of this film was on par with the best offerings from the Black Library; I certainly don't feel that way, but to each their own of course.
Also, for whatever it may be worth, I support what MajorTom11 had to say. I don't agree with all of his sentiments concerning the movie, but liking or disliking something is entirely subjective. It is fine to debate points to try and convince or understand an opposing viewpoint, but telling someone their likes or dislikes are absolutely incorrect is definitely fallacious.
Plot holes? Inconsistent pacing? Awkward characterisation and dialog? This occurs in all BL books to some degree and I (I won't speak for you) set it aside to enjoy what it's truly worth: some entertainment set in the grimdark.
The fact that there are many opinions doesn't indicate much about the "subjectivity" of taste. To the extent that "subjectivity" means that there can be no standards that effectively generalize between individual experiences, Tom is simply way off--although he may not be saying that. There is a reason why Shakespeare is studied in school rather than Dan Abnett and it's not merely because some stodgy old white men don't like Dan Abnett as much as Shakespeare. There are normative standards in literary criticism and this script rates well in line with BL novels.
There isn't a single BL book in existence you enjoyed? I'm not saying that any of them were exceptional don't get me wrong, not even one. But, I am saying that there is definitely a range of quality in there, as their should be from a multi-author line. All I said was that I personally enjoyed some of them as entertainment, and thought that some were much tighter and on-fluff than others.
I don't understand your point though, if creative writing were only worthy if it stood up to side by side comparisons with masterworks, we'd only end up with copies of masterworks, but no new ones. Of course it is worth it to bear those in mind as benchmarks, and of course most of the time those comparisons would be a reasonably effective way of judging writing. However, there will be exceptions, some books will simply be poorly written in technical terms but absolutely breathtaking to read all the same. (NOT putting BL in there lol!)
My arguement stands though, BL is not great, but I think in general most BL books hit more of the 'well written' criteria than the movie hits 'good filmmaking' criteria. And, as I thought I made so abundantly clear, it's just my opinion.
As for subjectivity, here is the definition:
1.existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought ( opposed to objective).
2.pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
3.placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.
4.Philosophy . relating to or of the nature of an object as it is known in the mind as distinct from a thing in itself.
5.relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience.
6.pertaining to the subject or substance in which attributes inhere; essential.
7.Grammar .
a.pertaining to or constituting the subject of a sentence.
b.(in English and certain other languages) noting a case specialized for that use, as He in He hit the ball.
c.similar to such a case in meaning. Compare nominative.
So, how am I wrong in saying that any opinion a person has as to their likes and dislikes is by definition subjective, and therefore unassailable as a given fact due to their own self affirmation of their feelings. I like some BL books. I didn't like the movie. It's really not up for debate, or hypocritical, or combative. It's just how I feel about them. No more no less.
I agree with MajorTom11 points as well. His review on page 5 of this thread is pretty bang on. The movie is ok as far as the gimmick of a 40k movie is concerned but the flaws hold the film back. HBMC’s point about “those who think it was ok, acknowledge the serious flaws in the film, but enjoyed the rest” fits this film perfectly.
Probably the major flaw that held the movie back, it would have to be the script writing which hilariously enough happens to be the flaw with a lot of films, in particular films adapted from books/comics/other media. Therefore, should we really be surprised that the movie was flawed because to tell you the truth I am not.
In regards to the idea that supporting this movie supports the idea that a bigger and better movie could be released, I’d have to disagree with this. Most likely, a sequel would be less enjoyable as film trends, in particular films adapted from books/comics/other media tend to follow this pattern. This is not to say that a sequel couldn’t buck the trend.
Whoa there, Tom. You've got my point backwards. I have enjoyed many BL books--despite them not being masterworks. I enjoy them precisely because I'm not evaluating them alongside the greats. Same thing goes for this movie. The point that Nurglitch made, the very good point, mind you, is that people are willing to set aside their nitpickiness for a novel but not a script and that seems odd and a bit delusional. The fact that you acknowledgee that there are masterworks, meanwhile, is also a n acknowledgment that critique is not as simply as rote opinion.
So, now that I've got it, allow me to (surprise) chip in lol.
I make a distinction between forming an opinion and offering a true critique.
On the opinion side of things, we all like things we know are bad from time to time, a crappy burger, a cheesy movie, britney spears, whatever lol. But we like it all the same, we may not advertise the fact, advocate for it or even acknowledge it but we all have our secret likes. I think so anyhow.
So forming an opinion isn't predicated on any necessary justification of such, it just happens all on it's own.
Offering a formal critique, one should be knowledgable in the subject matter, experienced enough with contemporary and classical works of similar intent and scope, and be able to make reference to items both objective and subjective to back up their still subjective evaluation. It has a bit more weight, but at the end of the day, it is still a person's opinion. What I think is important is that if you do offer a true critique, and not a blog of your thoughts on a particular subject, then people should find your opinion informative and well thought out even if they don't agree. A critique I suppose is an act of trying to convince or convey your opinion to others, while having an opinion is simply that, just having an opinion.
On to point #2 -
Books vs. Movies.
I think in many ways, it is easier to forgive books for small and medium flaws that it is movies. My reasoning is this -
With books, you have only to rely upon the writers skill with words and ideas, and your own imagination. A bolter will sound precisely as you imagine it. A word is spoken precisely as you interpret it, the shade of blue exactly as you like it. Much of the experience is as much reliant on the reader as the writer.
With a movie however, you must take in and evaluate the acting, the audio, the video, and all the nuances thereof. You are much more vulnerable to inconsistencies as you have no control over the experience. You pretty much just have to take it as is. Therefore, to me, movies are much more vulnerable to snap judgement and harder feelings.
There is just more to criticize with a film, so many more aspects that are blunt instead of the subtleties and interpretations of the written word.
That being said, poop is poop, and god bless anyone who enjoyed rhino surfing in the DOW novel lol.
Yeah, I think we are mostly agreed and I'm glad we could sidestep the semantics. That said, I honestly do endorse this movie for other 40k fans--just as I would a BL book. But as I have tried to make clear, I don't think people who aren't already fans to some extent would enjoy it. One poster mentioned that the people who like this movie are biased. Pretty obvious--people who aren't biased would not like the movie. Now could there be a 40k movie that would reach out to non-fans? I think so. I think there could be a movie that was good as a movie and still be true to 40k. That's certainly not what Ultramarines is, however, and I can't think of one BL book (aside from the works of Ian Watson) that's good, standalone scifi. I tend to agree that this movie is a step in the right direction, however.
Phew, cool. In my mini review, I actually said most fans would probably enjoy it, so looks like we are agreed on pretty much everything! +1 on Ian Watson, Space Marine and the Inquisition War pretty much cinched me 40k and GW in general
Anyways, in an effort to not come across as a nut, I will let this thread resume it's natural course and other people can yell at each other for a while lol
The comment about investors wanting it right first time is not quite right - true investors, as opposed to consumers, DONT always expect it right first time - theyre in it for the long term benefits.
I still dont know how Ed paid £35 for the film - did you buy it direct?
The £35 was probably including postage but it's still a disgusting price even without postage.
I don't understand why you think an investor is not a real one until they're a 'true' investor. Anybody who invest money wants some kind of return either back in monetary costs or other terms such as tourism etc.
No, it was £26.99 including postage, see the link I posted. There werent any choices in "upgrading" postage either. Which is why it seems a little suspect
There is a difference between investing for the immediate, and investing for the longer term. If you buy this film, dont like and dont purchase again - you are a consumer, not an investor. If you're in it for the long haul you will look for some return initially (which I, and many others, got) as well as expecting improvements in the future (which if it does well enough we shoudl get) to gain overall.
I saw the money i spent *now* to be an investment in getting more 40k films in the future, as well as getting an immediate return in the shape of the film, etc.
It took over a week from notification of dispatch to delivery but it finally arrived. I wasn't too impressed with £8 delivery charge for something that was dropped through the letterbox by the postie but it was undamaged. And, I have to say, it looks the business - the slipcover, art and 'metal boxes' packaging all look slick.
As far as the actual movie goes, I really enjoyed it. My expectations weren't too high but even taking that into account I had a fun time watching it. I thought the animation wasn't too bad (opening sword sparring and occasional moonwalking aside) and the hardware looked suitably bulky and impressive (I soooo want a Landspeeder for myself ).
Having said that:
Spoiler:
Why was the sacred relic full of blank pages? Was this part of the demon's cunning plot (was quite late at night when I watched it and may have missed a plot point or two)?
Also, did that heavy bolter leave shell casings all over the place when it fired?
I wasn't too impressed with the comic book. OK, so it added some back story but it seemed a little muddy and badly-paced.
Overall, quite happy with it and I'd certainly shell out for the next one.
It wasnt the real relic - the daemon was going to fill it with the warp portal summoning charm so it woudl get onto Macragge undetected
Yes, they left casings. Bolters are NOT caseless ammunition - check every model you have which has a case ejection port on it, as well as the "bolter casing" water pot in the old master paint brush set.
nosferatu1001 wrote:
I saw the money i spent *now* to be an investment in getting more 40k films in the future, as well as getting an immediate return in the shape of the film, etc.
I think this just illustrates the key difference in our opinions and why they are so different. Much like the Space Marine game coming out in march (?) I bought this film hoping for and thinking I was going to get a high quality product that was going to be very entertaining. I did not think I was investing in the future productions of the company. I mean I thought the main weakness would be the CGI as the top end stuff is difficult to do and expensive but I thought the story line would be pretty water tight. In answer to one of your previous posts I have just counted the BL books in my library and there are: 55 including 6 omnibuses, I also have every audio book. I admit I haven't read to of the books because they are by C.S Goto and that is like going back to a bad one night stand. I would say fluff wise I am pretty well read and I have a reasonably good understanding of the back ground after playing for 18 years. On the basis of that knowledge IMO this movie was not consistent WITH THE MAJORITY of the fluff I have read.
I have received an email back from Codex picture apologising for the overcharge, they have put it down to an error with their website and have already refunded the money so happy days on that front.
Finally I just wanted to say I really wanted to like this movie which is probably why I am so pissed off I didn't.
WEll, they cant please everyone. They have pleased the majority (judging by the responses on here, anyway) and that is *notoriously* tricky to do with rabid fans
The point I was making is that this film is not perfectly in line with fluff. But neither is the first GG novel (has an STC making products rather than being clever blueprints), Thousand Suns (has Nikaea outlawing ALL psychics, not just sorcery) and so on - the whole point of 40k it seems is that they arent consistent.
As for comparing libraries - i never bought CS Goto as i know toilet paper when i see it (friends did actually use it as toilet paper...) but i do have about 70 - 80 BL book,s, 90+% 40k (the time of legends fantasy series is awesome however, love nagash) and as many of the art and additional books as i can. Have a copy of rouge trader somewhere....
So is this film *any more* inconsistent with fluff than the average codex or BL book? No. the only inconsistency that can be found is the Crozius powers. I cant think of anything else that cannot be explained away / hasnt been seen before.
nosferatu1001 wrote: Bolters are NOT caseless ammunition - check every model you have which has a case ejection port on it, as well as the "bolter casing" water pot in the old master paint brush set.
Thanks for the clarifications, Nos. Missed the relic explanation when I watched it! I dunno why I assumed bolters were caseless rounds (always took the ejection ports to be there in case of dud propulsion / jams). I'l bear that in mind in future.
Some fluff used to claim they were before swiftly being kicked into touch I remember being in Games Workshop Peterborough and some of the red shirts were arguing about it.
From Codex, those who actually liked their product will be interested in this:
Embeddable ULTRAMARINES Widget!
We are pleased to announce the launch of the ULTRAMARINES Widget, which gives you access to the latest desktops, exclusive ringtones, a look inside the graphic novel and clips from the movie.
It's a comparatively low budget short film made by a small production company aimed at the 40k audience and them alone. To that end, it's a winner. I enjoyed it.
I imagine the lack of support from GW for this film is mainly due to their unwillingness to associate themselves with it too much when some fans are inevetibly going to do nothing other than slate the crap out of it. And that started after the first trailer.
I don't know if it was the mushrooms i took when i watched it, but man i couldn't stop laughing at the derp faces these marines had. They used every trick in the book to hide that ugly ass, chicken legged demon prince too lol. They moved a lot like the cut scenes on a ps1 game also but I'll have to watch the movie again, because those mushrooms hit me real hard around the time that chaos showed up so the demons were really fething with my brain! At one point the smoke came out of the tv and the demons face was all warped and crazy looking which made is so fething awesome to see them fight it. I'd have to say, the best part of this movie was... the mushrooms =).
Magic Mushrooms are the most overated halucinogen ever and from my experience I can't understand how you could have had such a vivid experience from them. I guess they must have come on a bit since I had anything to do with them.
Now here's something I thought would interest people, especially those who are dead-set against downloading stuff and insistent that it does nothing but hurt companies and make them lose money. Someone apparently uploaded the movie on YouTube, and I was linked to it today, figured it wouldn't be long before it was taken down, and so I gave up an hour to watch it. I didn't really like the look of this movie from the trailers at all, and didn't really plan on buying it, even if they release a regular DVD at a reasonable (lol) price. After watching it on YouTube however I think I might just pick it up later, assuming they do another release without the extras.
If it weren't for that upload to YT I'd have never watched it otherwise, and would never have considered buying it. Even though I saw a lot of fluff inconsistencies, which make no sense considering they knew no one but hardcore 40k fans would be watching this anyway...I thought it was okay for what it was.
Spoiler:
That daemon prince looked like gak though...what's with GW and their love for chicken legs now?
My copy of this movie arrived soon after the email saying it had been shipped. I thought all the anger about the delay was (as usual) kind of out of proportion to what had happened. Clearly, the movie's producers been let down late in the day by one of the suppliers of the additional bits (I'm guessing an aspect of the packaging). In that situation, you tend to cross your fingers and hope if there's any chance of fixing the screw-up without having to say anything; I suspect that's what they did, then they had to email everyone when the problem wasn't resolved in time. It's mildly annoying, but didn't justify the hyperbole - from some of the vitriolic comments, you'd think it was GW itself that had stuffed up...
I just watched it, and I thought it was pretty good. It managed to negotiate its way around most of the sci-fi pitfalls, although once they decided to go with a Chaos-themed story there was always going to be someone who got possessed. But the atmosphere was appropriately dark and ominous, and the characters were reasonably distinctive (quite a feat when you're making a movie about a bunch of blokes encased in armour). In the end, the weakest aspect was the animation, and you have to accept it as the best they could do with the budget, or you won't enjoy it. Some other notable good points:
- it felt 'right'. Barring a couple of moments, it was the WH40k world as I think most of us imagine it, and there were quite a few scenes where it really came to life. It never quite reaches the heights of the Dow intro (still probably the best WH40k battle scene ever) but it gets close. Using a British cast was important, since in the end the Marines are stiff upper lip knightly types and not cigar-chewing grunts, and the voice acting is pretty good. Some of you have questioned some fluff points, like the shell casings. Considering that GW depicts bolters ejecting shell casings, I don't have a problem with it. Perhaps they could have shown them reloading a bit, given their prodigious ammunition consumption, but it's a small point.
- the sound was quite good, and not over-the-top (but see the comment below regarding the power armour.
- the music is good too, and the use of medieval-inspired music works well. One of the advantages of making it in Wales is the ready availability of male choirs!
- they kept it simple, with the focus being on the members of the squad, and didn't try to overload the story with big entrances by flashy toys like Dreadnoughts.
The bits that didn't work so well:
- the faces, which really don't have enough movement in them. I think too many of them were old blokes as well; Marines live a long time, but too many of them were more cadaverous than grizzled.
- the Marines didn't really walk convincingly. There wasn't enough of a sense of their weight (which would be considerable). This was partly an animation issue - they had a slightly odd walk - and partly an issue with the sound; essentially their armour didn't make enough noise. I would have preferred more whining servos and clanking noises to emphasise the fact that they're wearing heavy, powered armour.
Overall, I'd say it was a pretty good first go - superior to a lot of low budget sci-fi films, and very true to the WH40k world, but let down somewhat by animation issues (and, in my opinion, the ultimately predictable nature of Chaos-themed plots). If they can get the animation up a couple of notches, and keep the scriptwriting solid, then they can expand the scope of it and introduce more of the stuff that everyone wants to see. While I love Orks, I think it would be too difficult to keep the tone right, and they'd be better off looking at Necrons or nids as a focus for the next one.
I'm really not impressed. Sub-par animation can be (mostly) forgiven, but wow was the story mediocre.
I was rooting for the demon.
Should they (codex, gw, or any other) ever release something else, I will watch it first and buy it after...if I feel it meets my expectations. I'm not one to support growing pains out of my pocket. I will however, be expecting GW to sanction a great movie to attract consumers to their universe in the future, that will be a movie I support. Each acting in their own self interest.
hopefully it will arrive within the net 2-3 days, otherwise I'll start to get worried.
).
DERP DERP DERP FACE! He's from the Shar-Pei chapter!