Stuff has been pretty odd around here lately too. Anonymous made it on the front page of CNN and has apparently been attacking credit servers all week.
(CNN) -- If you think there's a group of nerdish hackers somewhere hunched over their computers launching cyberattacks 24-7 on companies that have refused service to WikiLeaks, you're wrong.
Helping the hacking forum known as "Anonymous" and "Operation Payback" can be as simple as sending an e-mail to one of the many websites it uses -- and letting the hackers take control of your computer.
Anonymous claimed responsibility for disabling or disrupting the sites of MasterCard, Visa and PayPal this week. The attacks came on the heels of WikiLeaks leader Julian Assange's arrest.
"You don't have to be at your computer. All you've got to do is send Anonymous an e-mail that says, 'I consent to you using my computer, do whatever you like,' " and the people with Anonymous link to your computer, connect it with others who've consented, and use the collective force (among the machines) to launch these attacks," Gregg Housh, a 34-year-old internet activist based in Boston told CNN.
As per usual with any of these demos in the capital - the actual event gets swiftly hijacked by those who are only there for violence and anarchy. Those attacking Nelson's Column, the Churchill statue and the Royals are no more students than I am - they are only there to create mischief.
We see the same thing every year with the stupid May Day demos.
Having said that, and having watched the NUS spokes-lesbian on BBC breakfast this morning utterly fail to condemn the violence, any respect I had for students is long gone.
filbert wrote:As per usual with any of these demos in the capital - the actual event gets swiftly hijacked by those who are only there for violence and anarchy. Those attacking Nelson's Column, the Churchill statue and the Royals are no more students than I am - they are only there to create mischief.
We see the same thing every year with the stupid May Day demos.
Having said that, and having watched the NUS spokes-lesbian on BBC breakfast this morning utterly fail to condemn the violence, any respect I had for students is long gone.
Yep, I've met several anarchists during my time, they tended on the whole, to be overwhelmingly stupid, very fond of soundbites and violent protest but no real ideas. I'm also pondering the notion of 5th columnists attacking landmarks and royals, but then I'm a cynical bastard.
filbert wrote:As per usual with any of these demos in the capital - the actual event gets swiftly hijacked by those who are only there for violence and anarchy. Those attacking Nelson's Column, the Churchill statue and the Royals are no more students than I am - they are only there to create mischief.
We see the same thing every year with the stupid May Day demos.
Having said that, and having watched the NUS spokes-lesbian on BBC breakfast this morning utterly fail to condemn the violence, any respect I had for students is long gone.
Yep, I've met several anarchists during my time, they tended on the whole, to be overwhelmingly stupid, very fond of soundbites and violent protest but no real ideas. I'm also pondering the notion of 5th columnists attacking landmarks and royals, but then I'm a cynical bastard.
I don't suppose that's too far from the truth. I suspect a whole raft of anarchist organisations quickly spotted that the student marches would be a good smokescreen for shenanigans. I think it can be deduced from the ease with which they dodged the police cordons that one can surmise they were 'protest' veterans.
I think one of the most disappointing things is seeing how toothless our police force have become to the point where they can't effectively police what amounts to a riot for fear of the bleeding hearts brigade accusing them of 'heavy-handed tactics'. I think it goes hand in hand with the deterioration of respect that kids these days have for the law - what chance respect when they know full well the police can do bugger all to retaliate? Shocking really.
filbert wrote:I think one of the most disappointing things is seeing how toothless our police force have become to the point where they can't effectively police what amounts to a riot for fear of the bleeding hearts brigade accusing them of 'heavy-handed tactics'. I think it goes hand in hand with the deterioration of respect that kids these days have for the law - what chance respect when they know full well the police can do bugger all to retaliate? Shocking really.
That is because of a few recent incidents where they clearly killed or injured innocent people by heavy handed tactics, and have been rightly criticised.
There are only three ways it can be done.
1. Kill innocents by over-the-top violence.
2. Allow the rioters free reign due to fear of criticism for no.1.
3. Get it right!!
There is a fourth option which is to alternate between 1 and 2 depending on the latest headlines in the Daily Mail.
I concede the point KK but there must be a middle line between hammering somebody with a baton (or the time honoured 'fell down the steps at the station guv') and having to listen to a teen brat spewing bile at them and stranding stock still?
Whatever happened to the old clip around the ear?
Edit: From Football365 which I thought was quite pithy;
"What sort of country have we become when it's not possible for a chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce to safely ride through the middle of an all-day riot?"
As serious as this situation undoubtedly is, I can only hope somebody parodies it in the form of a side-scrolling beat-'em-up in the vein of Streets of Rage.
Or I suppose you could just play Streets of Rage and pretend you're beating up students and anarchists.
The Dreadnote wrote:As serious as this situation undoubtedly is, I can only hope somebody parodies it in the form of a side-scrolling beat-'em-up in the vein of Streets of Rage.
Or I suppose you could just play Streets of Rage and pretend you're beating up students and anarchists.
Camilla and Prince Charles in a sort of Final Fight-esque rumble
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Forgive my Yank ignorance, but what are they protesting?
Tuition fees have been tripled (I think), and one of the parties that were voted for (which promised they wouldn't allow this) went back on their promise.
The Dreadnote wrote:I am right in thinking that it's the maximum fees that have been raised, and that individual universities will be setting their own fees?
Yes, however expect most universities to find the 'exceptional circumstances' that allow them to raise fees up to the maximum.
Maybe there will be a massive cull of universities over the next 10 years as the genuinely good institutions get all the students who are worth taking, and the rest of them run out of money and fail.
That might be a good thing.
Part of the screw-up in the UK's higher education system is illustrated by Thames Valley University. In the 70s and 80s it was a polytechnical college, noted as providing one of the best catering courses in the country.
Then the polys were all made into universities. Ealing Poly became Thames Valley University, which has made itself a byword and a hissing for corruption and bad quality teaching.
I think the key point here is not that Uni's are charging money (that argument was lost years ago when tuition fees were introduced) but more that we are treading dangerously close to moving from a meritocracy where the most intelligent/apt pupils got the Uni spots, to a situation where if you have the money, you get the spot. And that is a worrying thing when you consider many poorer elements of society will be potentially priced out of higher education.
Its great to see that folks across the pond are willing to stand up when they get mad enough. Although rioting never really does much, it does at least make the powers that be pretty nervous.
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filbert wrote:I think the key point here is not that Uni's are charging money (that argument was lost years ago when tuition fees were introduced) but more that we are treading dangerously close to moving from a meritocracy where the most intelligent/apt pupils got the Uni spots, to a situation where if you have the money, you get the spot. And that is a worrying thing when you consider many poorer elements of society will be potentially priced out of higher education.
As someone who lives in this type of a system, you really really really don't want to get to that point.
Stormrider wrote:Where were the Royal Guards? A Halberd would be a nice deterrent.
At the Palace one supposes. The job of protecting the Royals lies with the Met Protection force, not the Guards. But i agree, some of those 'protesters' might have baulked at the sight of a grizzled Guards Sergeant
Ah.. the dirty rioting socilialists/anarchists/ignorant dickheads.
I bet your loving it all MGS eh?
If they attacked Chucks car in my vicinity i would have done my best to kill one of them and then use his corpse to shield our Jug eared Monarch, i mean, i took an oath!
Mounted police against rioters/demonstrators? that would never happen in France...I mean, everybody knows the rioters would eat the horses!(and we give you our latest delight: Horse meat Merguez!)
More seriously, it seems that it's always the same story with youths demonstrating wherever it happens: small groups of anarchist (or just scavengers) destroying and pillaging as much as possible, whatever the demonstration was about...
See In America our police force would let them shout and stuff, at least for a little while. But sooner or later, they would of been gassed, water hosed or beaten with batons. I personally like the water hose. That really lets them rioters know, HEY! SHUT YOUR YAP!
KingCracker wrote:
See In America our police force would let them shout and stuff, at least for a little while. But sooner or later, they would of been gassed, water hosed or beaten with batons. I personally like the water hose. That really lets them rioters know, HEY! SHUT YOUR YAP!
Land of the Free indeed.
Still.. a population PO'ed with the govt., economic unrest, strikes... it like the 80s are here again already. Bit of luck we might get a new Clash album, out of this if things continue.
mattyrm wrote:Ah.. the dirty rioting socilialists/anarchists/ignorant dickheads.
I bet your loving it all MGS eh?
/shrug
I leave the UK for good next Wednesday. I shall be secluded in my new lair with my woman, arming ourselves to the teeth and buying tinned goods.
I applaud the non-dirty, protesting socialists for getting up and demonstrating and damn the idiots who attacked Charlie and his talking horse-creature. They detracted and undermined any notion of a cause earning sympathy. I'd love to pin that on 5th columnists but like I said, I suspect it was anarchist idiots.
Still, it's going to get far far worse before it gets better. Can't wait till you get your letter through the post instructing you on how to behave under Sharia law and how your girlfriend is supposed to dress outdoors. Enjoy the increasing rioting in the streets as Cameron and co continue to make cuts and increase taxes to the detriment of the poor.
Also enjoy the deterioration of the public services under your beloved tories, remember when you are still paying the ever increasing taxes and yet find yourself without healthcare, schooling for your children or support if you ever fall out of work for whatever reason, you wanted all this and now it's yours.
Automatically Appended Next Post: p.s. In Paris in '68 the students found out that you could deal effectively with horse-mounted police by using razor-blades attached to sticks to slash at the legs of horses.
mattyrm wrote:Ah.. the dirty rioting socilialists/anarchists/ignorant dickheads.
I bet your loving it all MGS eh?
/shrug
I leave the UK for good next Wednesday. I shall be secluded in my new lair with my woman, arming ourselves to the teeth and buying tinned goods.
***You need to start saying "canned" goods. You say tinned goods and many people won't know what the you're talking about.
Remember, EEN AMARIGA WE SAY DEES!:
flashlight, not torch
cigarette, not cigarette
stick or log, not cigarette
sausage, not banger (do you still say banger?)
fries, not chips
current, not stream.
Hola! not hello
He's British. If a foreign person doesn't understand you, then one simply repeats what one has just said, just louder and slower. Over and over again. Soon gets the point across.
mattyrm wrote:Ah.. the dirty rioting socilialists/anarchists/ignorant dickheads.
I bet your loving it all MGS eh?
/shrug
I leave the UK for good next Wednesday. I shall be secluded in my new lair with my woman, arming ourselves to the teeth and buying tinned goods.
***You need to start saying "canned" goods. You say tinned goods and many people won't know what the you're talking about.
Remember, EEN AMARIGA WE SAY DEES!:
flashlight, not torch
cigarette, not cigarette
stick or log, not cigarette
sausage, not banger (do you still say banger?)
fries, not chips
current, not stream.
Hola! not hello
If you tried pulling a blade on a mounted cop in the US, you'd get shot. Police animals are protected by the same laws, and blades are deadly weapons. Pull a knife on a horse, the cop shoots you dead, enjoys a few weeks of paid leave while they do the paperwork, and the riot breaks up pretty quick like.
I'd also disagree that the current system in the US isnt a mertiocracy. Money has always been able to buy a good education, but if you're genuinely talented, you can get into a great school. Now, that means top 10% or so, but the real cream rises to the top.
The protesters need to co-operate with the police to be more organised and help root out the anarchists in their midst. If they don't, then they are not acting to the public good and they undermine their point.
Burning and wrecking things is no way to get a political point across.
Da Boss wrote:The protesters need to co-operate with the police to be more organised and help root out the anarchists in their midst. If they don't, then they are not acting to the public good and they undermine their point.
Burning and wrecking things is no way to get a political point across.
KingCracker wrote:
See In America our police force would let them shout and stuff, at least for a little while. But sooner or later, they would of been gassed, water hosed or beaten with batons. I personally like the water hose. That really lets them rioters know, HEY! SHUT YOUR YAP!
Land of the Free indeed.
Still.. a population PO'ed with the govt., economic unrest, strikes... it like the 80s are here again already. Bit of luck we might get a new Clash album, out of this if things continue.
Dang skippy! Youve got to look at it like this. Sure, your free to express how you feel and protest. Do it the way it should be done and all is well. Piss off the local PD, and they will freely (and usually gladly by this point) kick your teeth in
filbert wrote:I think one of the most disappointing things is seeing how toothless our police force have become to the point where they can't effectively police what amounts to a riot for fear of the bleeding hearts brigade accusing them of 'heavy-handed tactics'.
You know, it's interesting that you should say that.
As far as I can tell, the riot started as all riots start - with a trigger. In this case, it seems to have been the cavalry charges that were aimed at the (mostly) peaceful students. Up until that point, there was nothing going on that we hadn't seen at the other protests. Sure, the damn Social Workers probably started early - they always do. But for the most part, it was peaceful up until that point.
On a more serious note, what I saw sickened me. Police seemed to completely lose control - I watched them tear signs out of the protesters' grips, and lay into them with truncheons. One kid on the floor, already out of the fight, took a blow or two to the skull. No matter what those kids did, they are just that; kids. To treat them with what was essentially excessive force is questionable at best, and at worst morally reprehensible.
You say they're afraid of being accused of "heavy-handed tactics?" They should be, as that's exactly what they did.
The police are pretty drastically outnumbered compared to the protestors- when it gets hairy, they have to act hard and fast or they're gonna end up injured or dead. In that sort of situation, you've got to get clear if you're peaceful and if you don't they absolutely can't take chances.
I believe in the right to protest, but I also understand why the police need to bop people on the head sometimes. Really, I think the protestors should co-operate more with them. The police aren't the enemy.
Da Boss wrote:The police are pretty drastically outnumbered compared to the protestors- when it gets hairy, they have to act hard and fast or they're gonna end up injured or dead. In that sort of situation, you've got to get clear if you're peaceful and if you don't they absolutely can't take chances.
I believe in the right to protest, but I also understand why the police need to bop people on the head sometimes. Really, I think the protestors should co-operate more with them. The police aren't the enemy.
Firearms, firearms, firearms. Guarantee you have a pistol fired into the sky, a large chunk of the crowd scatters like roaches
mattyrm wrote:Ah.. the dirty rioting socilialists/anarchists/ignorant dickheads.
I bet your loving it all MGS eh?
If they attacked Chucks car in my vicinity i would have done my best to kill one of them and then use his corpse to shield our Jug eared Monarch, i mean, i took an oath!
Pleases me no end to hear you are still on the boil Matty. Go get 'em tiger.
I don't like Charles, but I would take a bullet for him, no question.
mattyrm wrote:Ah.. the dirty rioting socilialists/anarchists/ignorant dickheads.
I bet your loving it all MGS eh?
If they attacked Chucks car in my vicinity i would have done my best to kill one of them and then use his corpse to shield our Jug eared Monarch, i mean, i took an oath!
Pleases me no end to hear you are still on the boil Matty. Go get 'em tiger.
I don't like Charles, but I would take a bullet for him, no question.
Hm, despite the fact that I generally do not agree with Matty, I think this is an exception. Regardless of whether the protests were right or wrong in their aims, I fail to see how the Royal Family, powerless as they are in British government, had anything to do with the rise in tuition fees. The attack was completely unjustified, and I'd be willing to bet that the ones involved were either anarchists or people who are almost certainly not going to university regardless of fees. In short, precisely the kind of people who have no place in a protest, as they inevitably try to start trouble. In this case, Charles and Camilla just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and suffered the wrath of fools for it.
I love the accusations of heavy-handedness leveled at the police. Seriously, brilliant. /sarcasm
Did any of you actually watch this incident unfold, in real time? I did - I had BBC rolling news on in the background whilst I was typing an essay. The police did not start the violence at all. The students had consulted with the police and had been allocated a space in which to stage their rally. Once they reached parliament sq. they refused to leave, then attempted to break police lines in order to get at parliament. I watched the police being pelted with objects, barrier fences being torn down and used as battering rams, fires being lit - the works.
It was only after all this started to get out of hand that the cavalry charged.
IMO, they should have sent in the army, given them baton guns, ranked them up, then read the crowd The Riot Act. Seriously, they should bring it back - disperse or be fired upon.
Albatross wrote:I love the accusations of heavy-handedness leveled at the police. Seriously, brilliant. /sarcasm
Did any of you actually watch this incident unfold, in real time? I did - I had BBC rolling news on in the background whilst I was typing an essay. The police did not start the violence at all. The students had consulted with the police and had been allocated a space in which to stage their rally. Once they reached parliament sq. they refused to leave, then attempted to break police lines in order to get at parliament. I watched the police being pelted with objects, barrier fences being torn down and used as battering rams, fires being lit - the works.
It was only after all this started to get out of hand that the cavalry charged.
IMO, they should have sent in the army, given them baton guns, ranked them up, then read the crowd The Riot Act. Seriously, they should bring it back - disperse or be fired upon.
See thats exactly what i was saying, the blame lies at the fault of the perps and nobody else. They acted like animals and then blamed the cops for it all.
Oh and in latest news, Pink Floyd guitarists son was seen swinging off the union flag on the cenotaph.
Albatross wrote:IMO, they should have sent in the army, given them baton guns, ranked them up, then read the crowd The Riot Act. Seriously, they should bring it back - disperse or be fired upon.
Call me authoritarian if you must, but I don't mind seeing a bunch of animals like this getting their comeuppance.
The idea of "heavy-handed police tactics" in this case are completely foolish. Would the police have even bothered with these protesters if they had been behaving?
Peter Wiggin wrote:I wish people in America weren't so apathetic.
Its great to see that folks across the pond are willing to stand up when they get mad enough. Although rioting never really does much, it does at least make the powers that be pretty nervous.
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filbert wrote:I think the key point here is not that Uni's are charging money (that argument was lost years ago when tuition fees were introduced) but more that we are treading dangerously close to moving from a meritocracy where the most intelligent/apt pupils got the Uni spots, to a situation where if you have the money, you get the spot. And that is a worrying thing when you consider many poorer elements of society will be potentially priced out of higher education.
As someone who lives in this type of a system, you really really really don't want to get to that point.
Back in the Bush days there was a protest full of anarchists on a pretty much bi-weekly basis and the horse cops saw an awful lot of action up in the northwest. Some places aren't so apathetic as others. If it wasn't against the war it was against police brutality, if it wasn't against police brutality it was about drinking water or the WTO or global warming or something. People up there loved to have something to bitch and yell about. Maybe it died down because it became so overdone nobody really gave a damn any more. Like you say rioting never really does much except 'raise awareness' which is a namby pamby way of saying 'nothing useful but makes me feel better about my interest in it'.
Oh by the way... I just need to say it, my self esteem is at stake: AIDS. BREAST CANCER. CHILD ABUSE. GLOBAL WARMING. TUITION... grrrr.... I'm mad, and now that you are all aware, I can sleep peacefully knowing that I raised awareness... phew! Glad I got that out.
Seriously though I think that was a pretty pathetic display of random temper tantrum attacking Charles and Camilla. It's not like they make any decisions about tuition, it just shows the stupid thug mentality of a culture that doesn't think straight and wants any excuse to lash out against anything. It's as bad as the Rodney King riots in L.A. that turned into a lot of looting, beating up white pedestrians, and lighting random fires because of... um... raising awareness... or something (something like making me aware that a lil thug hood rat wanted a free TV and an excuse to go beat up a stranger?). Are these 'students' any better? WTF did Camilla have to do with their tuition anyway? Brits are pretty confusing when it comes to the royals, it's like a schizophrenic relationship. You love having royals, you ferociously defend their honor to foreigners who talk smack... and then you attack them, talk gak about them in tabloids, and act all put out that they exist at the same time. I just don't get it.
Guitardian wrote:
Seriously though I think that was a pretty pathetic display of random temper tantrum attacking Charles and Camilla. It's not like they make any decisions about tuition, it just shows the stupid thug mentality of a culture that doesn't think straight and wants any excuse to lash out against anything. It's as bad as the Rodney King riots in L.A. that turned into a lot of looting, beating up white pedestrians, and lighting random fires because of... um... raising awareness... or something (something like making me aware that a lil thug hood rat wanted a free TV and an excuse to go beat up a stranger?). Are these 'students' any better? WTF did Camilla have to do with their tuition anyway.
It seems that you're having trouble distinguishing between Anarchists and students. It was them who decided that, as the Royal Family was "uh, part of the capitalist system lol" they should attack them.
I severely doubt even the most braindead of students would attack a car with the royal heir in it, for precisely the reasons you just stated.
Albatross wrote:I love the accusations of heavy-handedness leveled at the police. Seriously, brilliant. /sarcasm
Did any of you actually watch this incident unfold, in real time? I did - I had BBC rolling news on in the background whilst I was typing an essay. The police did not start the violence at all. The students had consulted with the police and had been allocated a space in which to stage their rally. Once they reached parliament sq. they refused to leave, then attempted to break police lines in order to get at parliament. I watched the police being pelted with objects, barrier fences being torn down and used as battering rams, fires being lit - the works.
It was only after all this started to get out of hand that the cavalry charged.
IMO, they should have sent in the army, given them baton guns, ranked them up, then read the crowd The Riot Act. Seriously, they should bring it back - disperse or be fired upon.
See thats exactly what i was saying, the blame lies at the fault of the perps and nobody else. They acted like animals and then blamed the cops for it all.
Oh and in latest news, Pink Floyd guitarists son was seen swinging off the union flag on the cenotaph.
Monster Rain wrote:
Call me authoritarian if you must, but I don't mind seeing a bunch of animals like this getting their comeuppance.
The idea of "heavy-handed police tactics" in this case are completely foolish. Would the police have even bothered with these protesters if they had been behaving?
So what do we do about Tea Party protesters that abuse crippled old men?
Not that you're a Tea Party sympathizer, or that the Tea Party is nominally abusive. I'm simply asking.
If they're harming people or threatening public officials why would I think they should be treated differently? The right to protest is married to the responsibility for doing it properly.
Honestly I feel sorry for anarchists, whenever I explain my politics to someone I'm just thought of as naive or a hipster, but there politics are just waved of as rebellious ramblings. I don't know how they make it through the day.
Kragura wrote:Honestly I feel sorry for anarchists, whenever I explain my politics to someone I'm just thought of as naive or a hipster, but there politics are just waved of as rebellious ramblings. I don't know how they make it through the day.
cigarettes, listening to the Clash, quoting Mao, complaining about their parents, etc.
Someone who actually promotes Anarchy is an idiot with no concept of how human beings actually operate.
Particularly because they complain to authorities when the police are too mean to them. Who are they going to sue when Lord Humongous and his boys show up?
Monster Rain wrote:If they're harming people or threatening public officials why would I think they should be treated differently? The right to protest is married to the responsibility for doing it properly.
That depends on what is being protested. The redshirt protests in Thailand for instance caused a lot of property damage and aren't particularly without merit, same goes for the green protests in Iran. What is merited and what is effective are two different things though, and "student protests" are rarely either as western students usually just want to make up something to bitch about without understanding the system that they hope to tear down or "change".
Hey, at least the UK is doing better then the idiotic greek protests or the car flipping extravaganza of whatever the hell the french were really mad about.
ShumaGorath wrote:That depends on what is being protested. The redshirt protests in Thailand for instance caused a lot of property damage and aren't particularly without merit, same goes for the green protests in Iran.
Monster Rain wrote:Someone who actually promotes Anarchy is an idiot with no concept of how human beings actually operate.
Particularly because they complain to authorities when the police are too mean to them. Who are they going to sue when Lord Humongous and his boys show up?
He's saying that Anarchists live in a political vaccuum. They are the first to demand that the police step in and protect their rights they don't believe in. If you want no government then you should forfeit your rights you have (that are guaranteed by said government).
"Down with the system, maaaaaaannnnn!" I felt like hippee typing that.
Kragura wrote:Well that depends on how you define government and law. remember anarchy is not chaos and lawlessness, it is A system of governance after all.
Ummm, okay.
Definition of ANARCHY:
1a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government 2a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>
Lemme guess, the one in bold is what you're alluding too. Not a possibility on this Earth.
First of all I will say this; come on you guys. Seriously, your police force has absolutely no ability to do something besides charging into a crowd with horses and even then the protesters were throwing things at the mounted police. Its like they ran in there and started thinking "Okay, why aren't they running away? Why are they surrounding us?". Seriously, get mattyrm to go back for a little bit and show them how to take care of the protestors.
Sure your Queen, Princes,Princesses, etc are just figureheads but they're your figureheads. Do I like Obama, no, would I get ticked if somebody took him out, hell yeah. He's my president even though I voted for the old guy and as such its my duty as an american citizen to want to prevent his death.
Those people who attacked Charles and his girl are well, traitors.
You're looking at a maximum of 7,000 pounds which is about 11,000 dollars. Now my question is what does this include; does it include meals, housing, or parking on top of the actual class tuition?
Well, you can hardly expect those students to be acting rationally. They're pissed as hell at the government, with good reason.
I don't condone their actions, but the government have pulled a major dick move here. They should be supporting students to get through university and into employment, not holding them back for the sake of the economy.
It's a shame that money has become more important to the British government than the future of its people.
Cheese Elemental wrote:Well, you can hardly expect those students to be acting rationally. They're pissed as hell at the government, with good reason.
I don't condone their actions, but the government have pulled a major dick move here. They should be supporting students to get through university and into employment, not holding them back for the sake of the economy.
It's a shame that money has become more important to the British government than the future of its people.
So economics are irrelevant then? Debt is heavy burden that everyone in a western nation is feeling right now. It's only going to get worse if the EU has to bail out Portugal or Spain. If the economy collpases, I'm sure those kids will have plenty of money from the government to help them through Uni.
Kragura wrote:Well that depends on how you define government and law. remember anarchy is not chaos and lawlessness, it is A system of governance after all.
Ummm, okay.
Definition of ANARCHY:
1a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government 2a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>
Lemme guess, the one in bold is what you're alluding too. Not a possibility on this Earth.
this is less about a dictionary definition of anarchy and more about how you define government.
Honestly. Really think about this for a second. Think about everything that the government does for you that you take for granted. Clean food and water, rule of law, standardized education, sanitation etc. (you get the point)
Jubear wrote:Hmm rioting looks like great fun theres shields walls and cavalry charges and other rad stuff =)
Ok Ive just secured half a brick and a ticket to the UK LETS DO THIS!!!!!!
Please note that planning regulations cover the type of brick to be used in riots. Central London riots may employ traditional red brick, while some Victorian suburbs mandate the use of yellow brick in conservation areas.
Jubear wrote:Hmm rioting looks like great fun theres shields walls and cavalry charges and other rad stuff =)
Ok Ive just secured half a brick and a ticket to the UK LETS DO THIS!!!!!!
Please note that planning regulations cover the type of brick to be used in riots. Central London riots may employ traditional red brick, while some Victorian suburbs mandate the use of yellow brick in conservation areas.
Oh thanks for the heads up it sure would suck to show up to a riot with the incorrect half brick =)
Cheese Elemental wrote:Well, you can hardly expect those students to be acting rationally. They're pissed as hell at the government, with good reason.
I don't condone their actions, but the government have pulled a major dick move here. They should be supporting students to get through university and into employment, not holding them back for the sake of the economy.
It's a shame that money has become more important to the British government than the future of its people.
It's more to do with the fact that the Lib Dems did a complete 180 degree turn. They got a large quantity of their votes from the student base, who they promised they would ensure tuition fees would not be raised for. They then turned around and did the opposite.
I mean, if you voted for a party who said they stood for everything you wanted, and the second they got in power, the flat out ignored EVERYTHING they said pre-election, wouldn't you be a little pissed? If you voted for conservatives, and their first act was to bring in new laws for efficient unionisation, and nationalised the means of production? Or if you voted Labour, and the first thing they did was decide they were actually facists?
It's not so much the cuts, it's the clear fact they've broken the promises they made to the electorate to get votes in the first place. You always expect that to some degree, but as a reader of Private Eye, its shocking how much they've turned around on. Weapons dealing, nationalisation, corruptions and inefficiencies in Government. Everything they've spent the last four years slagging off Labour for, they seem to be turning around and upholding. They've actually shot themselves in the foot with this one, most students I know identified themselves as Lib Dem. They absolutely despise and distrust the Lib Dems now.
The Lib Dems have basically done to an entire generation of voters what took Labour 15 years to do to their support base: left them in complete disillusionment, and shattered their party loyalty.
If Labour is smart, they might actually be able to profit from this, and get back in next election. Scary a thought as that might be.
So what's this all about anyway? That douchy little wikileaks dude call for it or somesuch?
While I'm all for transparency and whistleblowing-- and I indeed approved of wikileak's leak of the torture happenings-- there's a difference between whistleblowing and "I hate America so let's do everything we can to ruin anything they're trying to do, no matter the cost". The donkey-caves on that site have caused the deaths of many people.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ketara wrote:I mean, if you voted for a party who said they stood for everything you wanted, and the second they got in power, the flat out ignored EVERYTHING they said pre-election, wouldn't you be a little pissed?
Melissia wrote:So what's this all about anyway? That douchy little wikileaks dude call for it or somesuch?
No, just students or hoodies claiming to be students so they can use the fees protest as an excuse to break things.
And anarchists as well. Also, I'd divide it between students, people who will be students and hoodies claiming to be students so they can use the fees protest as an excuse to break things.
Melissia wrote:So what's this all about anyway? That douchy little wikileaks dude call for it or somesuch?
While I'm all for transparency and whistleblowing-- and I indeed approved of wikileak's leak of the torture happenings-- there's a difference between whistleblowing and "I hate America so let's do everything we can to ruin anything they're trying to do, no matter the cost". The donkey-caves on that site have caused the deaths of many people.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ketara wrote:I mean, if you voted for a party who said they stood for everything you wanted, and the second they got in power, the flat out ignored EVERYTHING they said pre-election, wouldn't you be a little pissed?
You mean like Republicans?
WTF! does that have to do with student protests and tuition fees, either read the thread and it's topic, or stop trolling!
Melissia wrote:I couldn't be arsed to read all four pages of British politics. I wouldn't expect a brit to read so many pages of American politics either.
You could have just read the opening post, done a google search and read a news item then.
Or not fething bothered posting your entirely useless opinion on something you don't even want to know about?!?!
*puts fist in mouth*
Sorry, I deal with that sort of thing from kids in school all day every day (asking questions about things they could easily get answered if they read a paragraph's worth), so I understand where they're coming from.
Melissia wrote:Yes, but this isn't homework, or related to a job. I'm not gonna read a forum thread as closely as I would my o.chem textbook
According to you, you didn't even bother reading any of it, let alone as if it was a textbook.
You basically just did the equivalent of me wading into a 4 page thread you started on sisters of battle, and saying, 'So hai gais, what about them necrons? They're pretty l33t. So whatcha talking about?'
No I didn't. I read the first page (And if you had actually paid attention to what I posted instead of overreacting , you'd know that is exactly what I said), and based my assumption off of the series of vids and articles on that page. I didn't read all four pages, I admit, but I did read the articles linked to on the first page.
And yes, there was a link to an article on wikileaks and the reaction to companies not allowing donations to them.
Melissia wrote:No I didn't. I read the first page (And if you had actually paid attention to what I posted instead of overreacting , you'd know that is exactly what I said), and based my assumption off of the series of vids and articles on that page. I didn't read all four pages, I admit, but I did read the articles linked to on the first page.
And yes, there was a link to an article on wikileaks and the reaction to companies not allowing donations to them.
So you read the links, but didn't see that the second link was not related to the OP? It was another poster saying that 'things are pretty weird over here too' and well wasn't related at all to the brits anger over higher tuition.
Seriously though, if you would've read the first page you would've seen that and should've said "Oh, that poster is making an analogy between the british protests and the hacking of mastercard following Julian Assange's arrest" instead of "Oh, that poster has changed the topic of the thread so I'm going to go with the new topic."
As far as being as important as your ochem text, ochem is easy. All you do is draw pictures of molecules and make up nifty sayings to help you remember rules. Ochem lab is also easy, its just time consuming, can't tell you the number of times my lab partner and I took turns going to the chik-fil-e on campus while our lab was running.
Having just looked back, the you actually never said you read the first page. You started rambling about wikileaks, said that was what you assumed the protests were about, followed with how you couldn't be bothered to read 4 pages of British politics.
So to conclude, no, it wasn't 'exactly what you said'.
Amusingly enough, as for the 'series of links and articles', there was one rather random link which people pretty much ignored. Demonstrating just how closely you read the first page as well.
To conclude, if you'd bothered to spend the time you've just wasted demonstrating your ignorance on the topic, actually reading about it, you might have had something constructive to say. Instead, you seem to prefer arguing pointlessly.
I read 4 pages of British Politics, but I am really hear for the neon green knights and the German swat. Its cool that the college I plan on going to is (sudo)FREEEEEEEE! Not being effected by others problems is FUN! So about them necrons...
Stupid spanker swings from the Cenotaph, then grovels out of it. ARSEHOLE!
EDIT: Already posted by Mattyrm on page 3, however I'm going to keep it in as it's so ridiculous.
Also the little gak was seen with the group around the royals car. What the hell...
I agree with the students. Regardless of the random troublemakers and destruction mongers, you have the right to be pissed off when the government flips you the bird.
Really, as violent as it sounds, it's being handled so much better than it would be if the same riot happened in Canada or the USA. As much as I respect the students who are rightfully pissed off, I also have a lot of respect for the officers who have to deal with it. It's a shame they have to be the ones on the front lines when the lying political whores should be the ones eating the rage and hatred.
KingCracker wrote:
See In America our police force would let them shout and stuff, at least for a little while. But sooner or later, they would of been gassed, water hosed or beaten with batons. I personally like the water hose. That really lets them rioters know, HEY! SHUT YOUR YAP!
Man, cops + water hose = bad memories for folks from Birmingham AL. Still heard folks talk about it down there before I moved away....very scary.
Honestly, where I live we had a protest due to the police shooting an unarmed man in the back while he lay on the ground. There were over 300 police from 3 counties, as well as county sherrifs literally bussed. They were deployed in an area of about 8 square blocks mostly in groups of 8-12. On EVERY corner on EVERY block.
KingCracker wrote:
See In America our police force would let them shout and stuff, at least for a little while. But sooner or later, they would of been gassed, water hosed or beaten with batons. I personally like the water hose. That really lets them rioters know, HEY! SHUT YOUR YAP!
Man, cops + water hose = bad memories for folks from Birmingham AL. Still heard folks talk about it down there before I moved away....very scary.
Honestly, where I live we had a protest due to the police shooting an unarmed man in the back while he lay on the ground. There were over 300 police from 3 counties, as well as county sherrifs literally bussed. They were deployed in an area of about 8 square blocks mostly in groups of 8-12. On EVERY corner on EVERY block.
Brits have it easy. I'm very envious.
Thats because you're in Oakland. They were afriad of being killed. No sane person is a cop in Oakland.
Peter Wiggin wrote:Brits have it easy. I'm very envious.
We do. Come on over and live here for a bit. The feeling will soon pass.
The thing is the grass is always greener. Where I sit the US has a large budget for almost everything, cheaper to buy goods and live and you get a billion TV channels to watch as well as a friendly and inviting atmosphere where everyone sounds like a New Yorker or a Texas Cowboy.
I know that isn't the case and the majority of Americans are OK, kinda, but that doesn't stop the feeling that living in America would be great. Although with my Lancashire accent I might have to employ an interpreter.
Peter Wiggin wrote:Brits have it easy. I'm very envious.
We do. Come on over and live here for a bit. The feeling will soon pass.
The thing is the grass is always greener. Where I sit the US has a large budget for almost everything, cheaper to buy goods and live and you get a billion TV channels to watch as well as a friendly and inviting atmosphere where everyone sounds like a New Yorker or a Texas Cowboy.
I know that isn't the case and the majority of Americans are OK, kinda, but that doesn't stop the feeling that living in America would be great. Although with my Lancashire accent I might have to employ an interpreter.
Oh don't get me wrong...its a nice place. Its just that we DO have a million channels of TV and every conceivable entertainment medium in the universe (new ones come out every Xmas), and it does a DAMN good job of keeping the populace distracted/entertained. Its the apathy of the American people that is really depressing. In many way's I see the acceptance of "well thats just the way things are" as part of the will of American culture being broken.
As I've said in a couple of other threads on this subject, the police need better tactics, not more weapons.
They also need to stop trying to get every single person to give their details - peaceful protesters don't have to give their details to police, nor have their pictures taken.
Fine, if the police want to kettle up a few hundred people, so be it, but start processing them straight away, bring in food and water if you are going to be keeping people there for a long time.
Batch people up into groups of X many, shuffle them out of the kettle, weed out any troublemakers and let the rest leave.
You only make the situation worse when you keep large crowds of people bottled up.
The cynic in me wants to think the police only do it so they can get a violent reaction. A kettle is exactly that; somewhere where things come to a boil.
SilverMK2 wrote:As I've said in a couple of other threads on this subject, the police need better tactics, not more weapons.
They also need to stop trying to get every single person to give their details - peaceful protesters don't have to give their details to police, nor have their pictures taken.
Fine, if the police want to kettle up a few hundred people, so be it, but start processing them straight away, bring in food and water if you are going to be keeping people there for a long time.
Batch people up into groups of X many, shuffle them out of the kettle, weed out any troublemakers and let the rest leave.
You only make the situation worse when you keep large crowds of people bottled up.
The cynic in me wants to think the police only do it so they can get a violent reaction. A kettle is exactly that; somewhere where things come to a boil.
Way to much effort and expense. As noted in the title a good cavalry charge with sabres drawn should take care of any problem without delay. For the Czar! er Queen!
Albatross wrote:Actually it almost always has. Depends on your perspective, of course...
Oh, I'm not saying that it has not worked at stopping protests/resistance/etc, just that it has not gone down well with the subjects of such an act (or subjects in general).
you're talking about. 
