Okay I know you guys can be nazi's about this lol, but upon recently speaking to a stand-in for our GW store, I learned that the company have some plans for 2011/12.

He said that GW had just paid off a lot of debt not long ago, and have gathered quite a profit, he continued to explain that GWHQ were being a little more relaxed when design/making/releasing new models, saying that 'instead of only bringing out stuff that will earn the most income, like previously, they plan to release a lot more, i.e. new models for everything,' (and most excitingly) 'plastic versions of various FW products.'

He was almost certain that the Thunderhawk was first on the list (and no, not mistaken for the stormraven), and to follow were Warhound Titans, Tau Mantas and Barracudas...

Now this has me VERY excited, because as much as I like resin, I hate the quality of casts and FW's ridiculous cost.

Please don't rely too heavily on this rumour (I'm sure most of you won't, anyway) but I'd just like to put this out there because, well, it's a rumour (and if true, a very good one too!).

Note: This guy has been very lenient with secrets before, he let us know of the new skaven releases (in detail) before anything was mentioned on GW's site or in WD, I know some of you don't approve of stuff like this, and continue to believe that staff aren't told jack gak, but as everyone says; salt.

I have not heard of GW doing anymore big imperial things. Only thing I have heard about GW and plastics is that they want most of their line to be plastic.

Thunderhawk would be great but it always sounds like wishlisting sadly.

I would love 2 plastic Thunderhawks. One for the Wolves one for the Salamanders! And a Chaos Warhound Titan for my Nurgle Guard army wouldn't be unwelcome either.

Ah, a Thunderhawk in plastic would be nice.

Hmm... Haven't we been hearing that rumor though since 2002?

What do you mean by 'stand-in for our GW store'?

I've noticed that store employees, even managers and such, tend to know about as much about upcoming releases as J. Random Internet Guy.

when it is in my hands I will believe this

While I can believe that they have a desire to make as much in plastic as they can, including converting many FW kits over to plastic, the means and will to do so are often different from one's want to do something.

And I can see a plastic Thunderhawk in the future... but plastic Manta? No...

Balance wrote:What do you mean by 'stand-in for our GW store'?

I've noticed that store employees, even managers and such, tend to know about as much about upcoming releases as J. Random Internet Guy.

Well, our store isn't open on Mondays and Tuesdays, but over Christmas they have to open 7 days a week, and this guy came from another store.

NoBaconz4You wrote:and this guy came from another store.

Aha, the plot thickens.

I just want to see new IG infantry plastics that were promised to me 10 years ago.

There are already titan models out there. I just want to run a Mordian army again without any Cadians filling in.

I would be good with a plastic Void Dragon Phoenix.

Turalon wrote:There are already titan models out there. I just want to run a Mordian army again without any Cadians filling in.

That would be great, then with a few zulu wars heads I could have plastic Praetorians!

Turalon wrote:I just want to see new IG infantry plastics that were promised to me 10 years ago.

There are already titan models out there. I just want to run a Mordian army again without any Cadians filling in.

You can always go the ultra expensive ebay route.

Plastic Hydra, you know you want them

BrookM wrote:

NoBaconz4You wrote:and this guy came from another store.

Aha, the plot thickens.

See what I mean by the nazi thing lol. Honestly I am not lying, i have no reason to lie either, just telling you what I was told...

You give us Red Shirt rumors and deny us baconz, to the Gallows!

I wouldn't be surprised, to be honest. I've heard this here and there, and with the Flyers expansion rumors....

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I would be good with a plastic Void Dragon Phoenix.

You know what else would be nice for it? Some rules that don't suck, and a commensurate points-cost.

Back on-topic, who wants to make a friendly wager that a plastic T-Hawk will see daylight before next January 1?

There have been some rumours about plastic flyers next summer (and later Thunderhawks and Harpys, but certainly not Mantas!) plus possible Titan sized things. The rumour sounds not too far off, if you put the Manta off your list.

From my time working with them, I heard quite a few rumours, including a plakky Warhound.

Yet to see any evidence though.

Savnock wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I would be good with a plastic Void Dragon Phoenix.

You know what else would be nice for it? Some rules that don't suck, and a commensurate points-cost.

Back on-topic, who wants to make a friendly wager that a plastic T-Hawk will see daylight before next January 1?

so true
How about a plastic Eldar Nightwing and firestorm? The Night spinner got the plastic treatment so why shouldnt the Firestorm? Besides being IA only

I'd be afraid of the costs. I could buy an enormously more detailed and far more robust gundam model for a 1/3 what I would likely be asked to pay for plastic titann

I don't see GW doing many kits they won't make a good return on. If that rumor has any truth to it though, that would be pretty sweet.

@NVS
Hav efun playing 40K with that Gundamn model! I know what you mean though.

@OP
Yeah that all sounds plausible to me, although the Manta is a bit of a stretch, I have seen that thing in real life and it is absurdly big. Perhaps an Orca or Baracuda? But I don't know, perhaps a Manta is in the works!

Don't mind the nay sayers. A bunch of dudes on the net with no more insight than anyone else, just bigger egos and opinions. It makes perfect sense for GW to release bigger models, it is the natural progression of the game. Bigger models, more models, bigger games=more sales to new and existing customers. It is perfectly logical.

Thanks for the yummy rumor stew!

NoBaconz4You wrote:Okay I know you guys can be nazi's about this lol, but upon recently speaking to a stand-in for our GW store, I learned that the company have some plans for 2011/12.

He said that GW had just paid off a lot of debt not long ago, and have gathered quite a profit, he continued to explain that GWHQ were being a little more relaxed when design/making/releasing new models, saying that 'instead of only bringing out stuff that will earn the most income, like previously, they plan to release a lot more, i.e. new models for everything,' (and most excitingly) 'plastic versions of various FW products.'

He was almost certain that the Thunderhawk was first on the list (and no, not mistaken for the stormraven), and to follow were Warhound Titans, Tau Mantas and Barracudas...

Now this has me VERY excited, because as much as I like resin, I hate the quality of casts and FW's ridiculous cost.

Please don't rely too heavily on this rumour (I'm sure most of you won't, anyway) but I'd just like to put this out there because, well, it's a rumour (and if true, a very good one too!).

Note: This guy has been very lenient with secrets before, he let us know of the new skaven releases (in detail) before anything was mentioned on GW's site or in WD, I know some of you don't approve of stuff like this, and continue to believe that staff aren't told jack gak, but as everyone says; salt.

I want them to release a plastic fighta-bomba, so I won't have to risk losing fingers to make one myself. And although I have nothing personal against you, nobody and I mean NOBODY tells me that I can't have bacon...

The rumor about 2011 Summer Of Fliers is definitely picking up steam, I am now hearing it from GW staff as well as customers in the community. I've heard as many as 7 fliers might be in such a release. Maybe good to start saving up now in case even a chunk of it is accurate.

I have also heard of the Flyers release this sumer and alos the rumors about plcaky thunderhawks and also titans to be released but the fella i was talking to was not to confident in the titan bit but was confident in the thunderhawk rumor as he had heard this in october/november last year from a GW rep

Sheesh, I sure hope that they make some plastics for different aspect warriors. The metal is expensive, yet the models are great.

This plastic Thunderhawk is going to be a generational thing.




"I remember Jimmy, back in the day, when we had to walk uphill both ways to get our rumors from the telegraph. Plastic Thunderhawk! they would say...coming soon, just wait! Well, all those years wasted...I should have just forked out the 2 dollars back then to buy one. But no, everyone said wait! Best years of my life wasted waiting on the plastic glory that never flew..."

NoBaconz4You wrote:saying that [i]'instead of only bringing out stuff that will earn the most income, like previously, they plan to...

Yeah, this is the part that I think your redshirt conjured from the land of dreams. GW will never, ever release plastics without regard to their profitability (at least in theory. There's nothing to stop them from screwing up a kit that should be brilliant on paper with a bad design, see minotaurs). I suspect it's more likely that GW has realized that large plastic kits are extremely popular and represent a good way to grab some quick cash because most of their armies already have all the low-hanging fruit in the way of plastic infantry covered.

I believe the rumours I've heard about flyers this summer. While it would be nice to see a plastic manta, I think I'd need a mortgage before its feasible to me (both in the sense that I need that much money to pay for it, and in the sense that it makes little sense to own a model that large and (likely) fragile when I'm renting and moving every couple years.) A plastic thunderhawk would probably be a no-brainer. Personally I'd rather have plastic Tallarns, but whadduyagonnado?

A plastic manta? Does your GW friend even know what it is or how BIG it is? Seriously, build one and it can double as your living room coffee table. No, the day GW makes a plastic manta, game tables will be 20'x20'. More likely plastic Orcas if anything large and tau were ever done in plastic.

Actually, a Manta-Like flyer for the Tau would not be too farfetched considering that the rumor mill around the new Tau codex mentions something similar. The Tau rumors did state that it would be something new though, as opposed to a FW resin to plastic conversion.

The Manta has a 34 inch wingspan! Given that the size of a plastic Thunderhawk and the casting resources it would consume is one of the supposed reasons why that kit hasn't materialized, a Manta is unlikely given what it would cost to even package or ship it. And how many people would shell out massive dollars for a model they don't even have room to store? Most private game tables aren't big enough to allow for it and anything else on the table. If people are going to make a wish-list for a Tau flier first mainstream GW kit can we at least try to be a bit realistic? A Barracuda or even a Tiger Shark would be a little more likely one would think. For the moment at least GW is still trying to respect the $100 price mark and not go beyond it for model kits, even the Apocalypse sized ones. Let's hope it stays that way a little while longer.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Thunderhawk would be great but it always sounds like wishlisting sadly.

I don't know about that anymore. The major hurdles for it have been overcome, for the most part, and the TH molds from Forge World are getting old enough that likely they'll be retired soon.

Johira wrote:
I believe the rumours I've heard about flyers this summer. While it would be nice to see a plastic manta, I think I'd need a mortgage before its feasible to me (both in the sense that I need that much money to pay for it, and in the sense that it makes little sense to own a model that large and (likely) fragile when I'm renting and moving every couple years.) A plastic thunderhawk would probably be a no-brainer. Personally I'd rather have plastic Tallarns, but whadduyagonnado?

Likely realize that plastic Tallarns are waaaaaaaaaaay back on the burner compared to revamping Catachan models to be more in line with the Command/Heavy Weapon teams, convert hybrid metal/plastic kits to pure plastic, etc etc.

Plus, they'd likely be(if ever) done in conjunction with an Imperial Guard Codex redo. This "plastic flyer" rumor ties in with whisperings of a set of rules for using dedicated flyers in standard games of 40k.

BrookM wrote:

NoBaconz4You wrote:and this guy came from another store.

Aha, the plot thickens.

Ehhhh. Not so much. GW (according to whisperings I've heard) has started up a policy that they use for the UK's smaller shops to bring in management staff from the more "crowded" stores or mail order/studiomonkeys to help staff for the holiday rush.

If they can do a Stompa, they can do a Titan.

Meh it sounds like wishlisting, but sometimes, it's nice to kick around a few good ideas anyhow.

I wanna see something titan-y, I'm sick of tanks, bring on the flyers and mega-walkers!

The funny thing is a week or two ago my friend showed me a pic from a White Dwarf mag (I'll find out what issue and provide the pic) and it had a Tau Barracuda in one of the battle pictures and it looked plastic, but I'll let you guys be the judge of that when I update again.

-Pat

Barracuda is high up on the possible plastic flyer list.

BrassScorpion wrote:Given that the size of a plastic Thunderhawk and the casting resources it would consume is one of the supposed reasons why that kit hasn't materialized, a Manta is unlikely given what it would cost to even package or ship it.

A while ago I heard a rumour that when Forgeworld was looking at making their Manta, they checked out a combination of plastic and resin in order to gain strength. But that they couldn't follow through because they didn't have the capability to mold the large sheets of plastic needed to make the manta wings without experiencing unacceptable warpage. No idea if it's true or not, but one of my first ever model kits as a kid was a plastic space shuttle with like a 2 ft. long fuel tank made of two halves and I still remember how hard it was to get those both sides to line up.

Kanluwen wrote:Likely realize that plastic Tallarns are waaaaaaaaaaay back on the burner compared to revamping Catachan models to be more in line with the Command/Heavy Weapon teams, convert hybrid metal/plastic kits to pure plastic, etc etc.

Yes, Kan. That was the joke.

I would rather see kits for the all the HQ choices for 40K and Warhammer plastic Autarchs and Ork Warboss and Wierd boy would b top of my list followed by a Chaos Lord for Warhammer, I know its possible to make these from kits already and I do when the whim takes me but a dedicated kit would be a great asset.
As far as Thunder Hawks etc go I really don't have the space to use them in a game or store them in my cabinets.

Apostle Pat wrote:The funny thing is a week or two ago my friend showed me a pic from a White Dwarf mag (I'll find out what issue and provide the pic) and it had a Tau Barracuda in one of the battle pictures and it looked plastic, but I'll let you guys be the judge of that when I update again.

If it was a picture then how on earth can what it was made of?! When painted they'd look identical

Plastic Warhounds I can definitely see in the near future, really it's a surprise the Stompa came first.
Plastic Thunderhawks I think are a possibility, I'd really like to see it happen
Plastic Manta's are just flat out crazy!

I heard it was a plastic orca type craft not mata for the tau.

Reecius wrote:@NVS
Hav efun playing 40K with that Gundamn model! I know what you mean though.

@OP
Yeah that all sounds plausible to me, although the Manta is a bit of a stretch, I have seen that thing in real life and it is absurdly big. Perhaps an Orca or Baracuda? But I don't know, perhaps a Manta is in the works!

Don't mind the nay sayers. A bunch of dudes on the net with no more insight than anyone else, just bigger egos and opinions. It makes perfect sense for GW to release bigger models, it is the natural progression of the game. Bigger models, more models, bigger games=more sales to new and existing customers. It is perfectly logical.

Thanks for the yummy rumor stew!

Generally if you want bigger games you used to be able to play epic/warmaster but now GW dont push it as it wasn't a good enough profit maker

Gorechild wrote:

Apostle Pat wrote:The funny thing is a week or two ago my friend showed me a pic from a White Dwarf mag (I'll find out what issue and provide the pic) and it had a Tau Barracuda in one of the battle pictures and it looked plastic, but I'll let you guys be the judge of that when I update again.

If it was a picture then how on earth can you tell what it was made of?! When painted they'd look identical

That's not entirely true. Some of the lines get lost/altered in the translation from resin to plastic, things get moved around, etc.

Or in the case of the Baneblades, they get entirely reworked

Apostle Pat wrote:The funny thing is a week or two ago my friend showed me a pic from a White Dwarf mag (I'll find out what issue and provide the pic) and it had a Tau Barracuda in one of the battle pictures and it looked plastic, but I'll let you guys be the judge of that when I update again.

-Pat

WD december 2010 page 7 maybe?
Tau vs Ultramarines ( FW written all over it ).
Would be funny to find out the T-hawk and Tau whatshisname are NOT FW as these seem to be the only 2 FW products on that pic ( except the suit maybe ).

If big tau stuff is to ever get to plastics my money's on the orca. It's vaguely thunderhawkish too.

The Orca, would not sell well with it's current rules. The baracuda or tiger shark would better alteratives for Tau. Or perhaps something totally new, such a transport with some sort of main fire power, like a hammerhead with transport capacity. Maybe the Drone Harbinger.... from the DOW games.

Who knows how the rules may change until then.
As for the harbinger it's just a standard tau chassis with a fat and boxy ass, not very fitting with their esthetic at all.

The orca fits in the same role as the thunderhawk, but it's not nearly as fun. The thunderhawk has a battle cannon and heavy bolters all over the place, in addition to its troop transport capabilities. The orca has... ?? It's kinda a suppository-shaped flying school bus. I'd rather a barracuda or an entirely new vehicle with a bit more jazz.

The FW Orca model has a better "toy factor" than the other models. The top is removable so that you can look inside and even place models there and the turret on the bottom is retractable! It's fun to play with, literally, in a way the other models are not. Unfortunately, without hands-on examination those features are not obvious when browsing the catalogue.

JOHIRA wrote:The orca fits in the same role as the thunderhawk, but it's not nearly as fun. The thunderhawk has a battle cannon and heavy bolters all over the place, in addition to its troop transport capabilities. The orca has... ?? It's kinda a suppository-shaped flying school bus. I'd rather a barracuda or an entirely new vehicle with a bit more jazz.

The Orca/Thunderhawk thing is untrue.

The Orca and Thunderhawk don't "fit the same role". Thunderhawks are designed to provide air cover after disgorging their cargo and deal with threats that the Astartes on the ground aren't equipped to handle.
Orcas are just designed to ferry troops into battle, and have very minimal armament(twin-linked burst cannons in a pop-down turret ala the Millenium Falcon, if I remember right) due to that but they do pack some seriously heavy armor plating.

But yes. An Orca is quite unlikely. A larger Devilfish-esque vehicle that's heavily armed is more likely to be the "big" Tau vehicle equivalent to a Valkyrie/Vendetta.

And the Barracuda is pretty likely for the flyer expansion(if it's real), as it's around the same size as a Thunderbolt or Lightning.

Kanluwen wrote:

JOHIRA wrote:The orca fits in the same role as the thunderhawk, but it's not nearly as fun. The thunderhawk has a battle cannon and heavy bolters all over the place, in addition to its troop transport capabilities. The orca has... ?? It's kinda a suppository-shaped flying school bus. I'd rather a barracuda or an entirely new vehicle with a bit more jazz.

The Orca/Thunderhawk thing is untrue.

The Orca and Thunderhawk don't "fit the same role". Thunderhawks are designed to provide air cover after disgorging their cargo and deal with threats that the Astartes on the ground aren't equipped to handle.
Orcas are just designed to ferry troops into battle, and have very minimal armament(twin-linked burst cannons in a pop-down turret ala the Millenium Falcon, if I remember right) due to that but they do pack some seriously heavy armor plating.

But yes. An Orca is quite unlikely. A larger Devilfish-esque vehicle that's heavily armed is more likely to be the "big" Tau vehicle equivalent to a Valkyrie/Vendetta.

And the Barracuda is pretty likely for the flyer expansion(if it's real), as it's around the same size as a Thunderbolt or Lightning.

Pretty sure it's a TL Burst Cannon and a Missle pod, but 14 AV. Book is at home though. Still a Crisis Suit can match that fire power.

Acardia wrote:
Pretty sure it's a TL Burst Cannon and a Missle pod, but 14 AV. Book is at home though. Still a Crisis Suit can match that fire power.

Unless it's been changed from IA3 significantly, it'd be AV11 for front+side, 10 for rear and has twin-linked "long barreled burst cannons" and a missile pod(I knew just the single burst cannon sounded a smidge weird).

But given that it's also a "super-heavy flyer" that has such crummy armament(who wants something that can't fight well for a large point cost?), I wouldn't really expect it to be put into plastic.

I have to agree - it just doesn't pass the 'sexy enough' test.

It would have to be modified and up-gunned or else I can't see it generating many sales, except maybe as a nice scenery piece crashed Xenos vehicle.

But not at the prices GW will charge!

If a plastic warhound ever came out I would probably buy like 5 of them lol.

I would too...

...IF it is the far superior MARS pattern version.

Which, given the awesome, cool rounded shape will... probably not be the case!

NoBaconz4You wrote:

BrookM wrote:

NoBaconz4You wrote:and this guy came from another store.

Aha, the plot thickens.

See what I mean by the nazi thing lol. Honestly I am not lying, i have no reason to lie either, just telling you what I was told...

I dont doubt he said that. It doesn't make it less true or false. I had a red shirt at one of the 1 man stores tell everyone that Jan was going to be GK.

What someone told me a while back re: plastic Thunderhawks is that the issue with the big kits -- especially a TH -- is that they suck up all their available plastics production. So they have to have a good-sized "hole" in their production schedule, because they can't produce much else while a big kit is being run. Obviously that could require quite a bit of juggling on GW's part.

I also had the impression back then -- although I was not specifically told this -- that the TH was already designed. Perhaps only as CAD drawings, etc. but designed nonetheless.

I'm waiting but not holding my breath for a plastic warhound. These big model rumors come up all the time, I'll believe em when I see the models...

Indeed, looking at some pics of the FW manta I can understand why you doubt it! It's absolutely huge (can't understand what it's use is in game?)!

My only guess is that he may have mistaken it for a Barracuda or Orca...

1.) While the Tiger Shark seems the more likely big Tau flyer, if done at all, I personally really like the Orca, more sexy than the Storm Raven
And it has an official (Epic) Rocket Gunship version, the Scorpionfish (2 x Twin Linked Missile Pod, 2 x Smart Missile System, Tracer Missiles, Interceptor Missiles, Seeker Missiles, Multiple Markerlights, no transport capacity, see pic) and the Dragonfish Command Vehicle (floating HQ with Ion Cannon, 2 x Twin Linked Burst Cannons, Seeker Missiles).



2.) There were some vague rumours, that GW will make more terrain for 40k and Warhammer Fantasy. Now that would be something useful!

I really hesitate to say if the Tiger Shark would make it in for the flyer expansion. It just doesn't fit with the rest of what we've heard in regards to this flyer expansion.

Sure, it fits the criteria of being a flyer and all, but it's also pretty much a dedicated ground attack craft/heavy bomber like the Marauder/Marauder Destroyer.

The Barracuda though just seems to fit with the other rumored aircraft(Thunderbolt, Void Dragon, the Dark Eldar fighter/bombers, etc) in being both an air combat capable flyer and a ground support aircraft.

Tiger Shark, Orca and Thunderhawk are long term perspectives, not for this summer. Only Barracuda seems likely for Tau then.

Kanluwen wrote:The Barracuda though just seems to fit with the other rumored aircraft(Thunderbolt, Void Dragon, the Dark Eldar fighter/bombers, etc) in being both an air combat capable flyer and a ground support aircraft.

Well at least it was featured in Soulstorm, maybe GW will try to capitalise on the only non-marine flyer in that game that didn't compleetly suck.

HoverBoy wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The Barracuda though just seems to fit with the other rumored aircraft(Thunderbolt, Void Dragon, the Dark Eldar fighter/bombers, etc) in being both an air combat capable flyer and a ground support aircraft.

Well at least it was featured in Soulstorm, maybe GW will try to capitalise on the only non-marine flyer in that game that didn't compleetly suck.

I loved the Fighta-Bomber, thought it was pretty fun to watch everyone get tossed around all the time.

Fighta-bomma and Thunderbolt are two of the models that come up every time the "Summer of Fliers" thing gets mentioned. I hope if the whole thing is for real that Chaos Marines will get something too.

Maybe a hell blade?

The recent pics in WD of an Ultramarine TH on the landing pad look odd to me.

The fact that the canopy/windows have been painted in seems odd considering the cockpit detail on offer in the current FW kit. It just doesn't look right.

To be fair though i haven't sat down and tried to compare the details to look for any differences. I don't own a marine army and not really that bothered.

A plastic Eldar Scorpion with gun barrels that don't go soft and droop at above room temperature, now thats more like it!

johnstewartjohn wrote:Maybe a hell blade?

More likely that they'd get a Thunderhawk, along with the Loyalist Marines.

There just isn't many aircraft for either of those two that are actually operated by the Astartes.

Thought most of the other rumours so far are pointing to a fighter/ bomber WD supplement? With the storm raven being the marine release?

Plastic Tiger Sharks & Barracuda's maybe?
Be nice to see.
Manta I doubt but Tetra and Remora's would be a nice addition.

johnstewartjohn wrote:Thought most of the other rumours so far are pointing to a fighter/ bomber WD supplement? With the storm raven being the marine release?

Stormraven comes out next month, along with the Blood Angels Dreadnought kit.

So I highly doubt it's a WD supplement, unless they just gloss over Marines for a unit release.

Kanluwen wrote:

johnstewartjohn wrote:Thought most of the other rumours so far are pointing to a fighter/ bomber WD supplement? With the storm raven being the marine release?

Stormraven comes out next month, along with the Blood Angels Dreadnought kit.

So I highly doubt it's a WD supplement, unless they just gloss over Marines for a unit release.

If that’s so then I can’t see them not doing a marine release. So that only leaves the thunder hawk.

It might be a WD/online supplement, ala Spearhead.

I can see that happening...

Alpharius wrote:It might be a WD/online supplement, ala Spearhead.

I can see that happening...

Clarification:
You mean the actual rules in White Dwarf, and a supplemental supplement available online?

Also: Spearhead didn't really introduce entirely "new" rules like flyers would. Existing units were just allowed in different quantities and given some special rules.

Good point - I still can't see a new rulebook/flyer supplement making a lot of sense, or selling enough to justify its existence...

Alpharius wrote:Good point - I still can't see a new rulebook/flyer supplement making a lot of sense, or selling enough to justify its existence...

I think it depends on what price point we see it at or how it's set-up.

If it's "Codex: Flyer Battles" and just includes supplemental rules to use flyers(and ONLY flyers) then I can't see it working too well.

If it's "Hostile Skies" and marketed like Planetstrike or Cities of Death and features flyers, anti-aircraft defenses, rules for full out aerial assaults, etc...I could see it working well with the same crowd that enjoyed COD+Planetstrike(aka: the folks who like doing big, lengthy campaigns tying into a big overarching storyline).

Lets not discount the possibility that GW would release a Space Marine fighter plane type vehicle- vis. the enclosed cockpit single seat landspeeder air support vehicle. I know this hasn't appeared anywhere else- its just conjecture/ speculation from my sick little mind.

Lionshammer wrote:Lets not discount the possibility that GW would release a Space Marine fighter plane type vehicle- vis. the enclosed cockpit single seat landspeeder air support vehicle. I know this hasn't appeared anywhere else- its just conjecture/ speculation from my sick little mind.

The Tempest is basically obsolete at this point. Its armament is available to standard Land Speeders.

Plus, Space Marines seem to trend towards "multi-role" vehicles for the most part.

Lets remember though, Planet Strike was a flop. (At least in my area and from what I read). Maybe it will be a smaller book this time with more of a new model focus?

Planetstrike was a flop because GW forgot about it the month after it was released. A month later they gave coverage to Planetary Empires and then a month later Space Hulk. By that stage Planetstrike was hardly ever mentioned. It’s another in a long line of examples of GW epic-failing when it comes to promoting their own products, taking their audience as granted, and misusing their monthly publication.

Anyway, A Tigershark in plastic is unlikely IMO. It is a big super-heavy, like Kan said, and wouldn’t fit as a release. I think each race will get a basic combat flier (Thunderhawk, Barracuda, Fighta-Bomba, Nightwing, etc.) and that will be it.

Kanluwen wrote:If it's "Hostile Skies" and marketed like Planetstrike or Cities of Death and features flyers, anti-aircraft defenses, rules for full out aerial assaults, etc...I could see it working well with the same crowd that enjoyed COD+Planetstrike(aka: the folks who like doing big, lengthy campaigns tying into a big overarching storyline).

Planetstrike was the aerial assault expansion – whole armies Deep Striking to bypass carefully constructed defensive lines. I think we’re looking more at a WD expansion.

Hostile Skies is a cool name though.

Is the Thunderhawk a super-heavy? It's a fairly large model compared to the other fliers mentioned...

It is. But it's iconic, and the only thing the Marines have.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If it's "Hostile Skies" and marketed like Planetstrike or Cities of Death and features flyers, anti-aircraft defenses, rules for full out aerial assaults, etc...I could see it working well with the same crowd that enjoyed COD+Planetstrike(aka: the folks who like doing big, lengthy campaigns tying into a big overarching storyline).

Planetstrike was the aerial assault expansion – whole armies Deep Striking to bypass carefully constructed defensive lines. I think we’re looking more at a WD expansion.

Hostile Skies is a cool name though.

STOP THE PRESSES! HBMC and KAN just AGREED! A CELEBRATION IS IN ORDER!

Marine might just get the stormraven. It would require less work and would make some sense. A T-Hawk would dwarf the other fliers. Although I think that they (GW) are going to keep putting fliers into codex updates, as they have for the last 4 and they were all a relative hit.

Yeah but the Storm Raven isn't a 'flyer', much like a Valk isn't a 'flyer'.

And Kan and I agree all the time. It's just that sometimes he's wrong. Nobody's perfect I guess...

But, as we all know, Fast Skimmer= Flyer. There isnt a counter example to this. Has anything been confirmed by GW?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Planetstrike was a flop because GW forgot about it the month after it was released. A month later they gave coverage to Planetary Empires and then a month later Space Hulk. By that stage Planetstrike was hardly ever mentioned. It’s another in a long line of examples of GW epic-failing when it comes to promoting their own products, taking their audience as granted, and misusing their monthly publication.

Anyway, A Tigershark in plastic is unlikely IMO. It is a big super-heavy, like Kan said, and wouldn’t fit as a release. I think each race will get a basic combat flier (Thunderhawk, Barracuda, Fighta-Bomba, Nightwing, etc.) and that will be it.

The only one that really has me stumped is the Necrons. Whatever they get, it'll be brand new in all likelihood.

Fingers crossed for some kind of gigantic biomechanical gargoyle powered by the tears of Pariahs?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If it's "Hostile Skies" and marketed like Planetstrike or Cities of Death and features flyers, anti-aircraft defenses, rules for full out aerial assaults, etc...I could see it working well with the same crowd that enjoyed COD+Planetstrike(aka: the folks who like doing big, lengthy campaigns tying into a big overarching storyline).

Planetstrike was the aerial assault expansion – whole armies Deep Striking to bypass carefully constructed defensive lines. I think we’re looking more at a WD expansion.

Hostile Skies is a cool name though.

I hesitate to call Planetstrike the "aerial assault" expansion. I liken it more to a massed airborne assault, rather than an aerial assault.

That probably comes off as kind of weird, but think of the US 101st Airborne during Market Garden/Overlord for the "massed airborne assault" and the "aerial assault" being more akin to Operation Varsity.


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Happygrunt wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:If it's "Hostile Skies" and marketed like Planetstrike or Cities of Death and features flyers, anti-aircraft defenses, rules for full out aerial assaults, etc...I could see it working well with the same crowd that enjoyed COD+Planetstrike(aka: the folks who like doing big, lengthy campaigns tying into a big overarching storyline).

Planetstrike was the aerial assault expansion – whole armies Deep Striking to bypass carefully constructed defensive lines. I think we’re looking more at a WD expansion.

Hostile Skies is a cool name though.

STOP THE PRESSES! HBMC and KAN just AGREED! A CELEBRATION IS IN ORDER!

Marine might just get the stormraven. It would require less work and would make some sense. A T-Hawk would dwarf the other fliers. Although I think that they (GW) are going to keep putting fliers into codex updates, as they have for the last 4 and they were all a relative hit.

Thunderhawks aren't as big as you might think, compared to the Barracuda or Thunderbolt/Lightning.

I mean, they're not tiny but they're not that absurdly large.

I liken it more to a massed airborne assault, rather than an aerial assault.

Absolutely. Planetstrike is all about what happens after stuff descends to the ground, and though I enjoy it there's no new aerial or "flier" element to it. Hopefully, that is coming as rumoured.

BrassScorpion wrote:Absolutely. Planetstrike is all about what happens after stuff descends to the ground...

Except it’s not, because the game isn’t centred around ground forces attacking a stronghold. It’s centred around groundforces bypassing the stronghold altogether before they even hit the ground via aerial insertion (ie. Deep Striking).

That's news to me, when I play Planetstrike I attack the "stronghold". After all, the Bastions and such are also not coincidentally the game objectives. Plus, it's fun trying to take them down.

Imagine Warhammer Siege, but you can ignore their castle and just have your troops appear inside it. That's what Planetstrike is like.

Planetstrike would be a lot more fun if there were indeed areas of denial. Like 12" around each bastion at least, to make movement more critical. Then it's be more than deepstrike, survive, lose/win, there goes 2 hours.

Back on-topic, I really wonder what the flyer rules could consist of. They've gotta be more detailed than the current flyer rules, that's for sure.

George Spiggott had some decent dogfighting rules up some time ago, and my group wanted to develop them but then ran into real life and dropped the project. The rules he had were sort of comparable to 40K's close combat (possible combat vs. other flyers each round including opponent's, but ground attack only on your own turn). They certainly made air combat fast and furious. Let's hope GW can do the same.

A plastic Titan would be a great move forward.

I hope it comes as two seperate kits,one for Chaos and another for Loyalists. Both with plenty of options so that no two are the same.

My friend would get one the minute it comes out,he loves Titans.

I would really like to see plastic titans. However I have the warhound and the reaver and there’s a lot of large rounded parts. Can’t see them converted into plastic without a lot of changes. Like to be wrong.

That's my problem too, as noted earlier.

All that means is that my favorite pattern of Warhound (Mars) is OUT for plastic, maybe, and we'll be stuck with the box-o-rific Lucius pattern one...

As for the Reaver... who knows?

But I think that class of Titan is far away from being available in plastic!

Really don’t like the Lucius pattern one, does anyone buy it? Think the thunder hawk is more likely but even that’s a bit of a stretch.

I'd love the return of epic in some form with plastic titans at current quality.

I also want a pony, and a BB gun and world peace.

I think I'll get those before Epic...

Alpharius wrote:That's my problem too, as noted earlier.

All that means is that my favorite pattern of Warhound (Mars) is OUT for plastic, maybe, and we'll be stuck with the box-o-rific Lucius pattern one...

As for the Reaver... who knows?

But I think that class of Titan is far away from being available in plastic!

Can we get a comparison shot between the Mars pattern and the Lucius pattern? For reference.

Happygrunt wrote:Can we get a comparison shot between the Mars pattern and the Lucius pattern? For reference.

Lucius Pattern

Mars Pattern

Actually i like the Boxlucius better.

I like the Lucius better myself as well.

There's one (or two) in every crowd...

I'll take the Jackal over the Wolf any time. At least that one has teeth and eyes.

Lucius for me as well. Either of those kits would be awesome though. Plastic is much easier to paint than metal, my arm got sore last night, just trying to paint some fiends.

Interesting - the math nerd in me would like to see a plot of the people who like the Lucius vs. the Mars by the year they started playing Warhammer. I'd postulate that folks that prefer the Lucius Pattern are generally newer players compared to those that prefer the Mars Pattern (which is more akin to old skool Epic styling). Again, I say generally - but I'd bet that'd be the trend we'd see.

You're probably right - good catch!

Yes my newness might have to do with why i relate boxy to IG.

I would like a plastic Tau Orca if it had rules like a Vendetta.

I would like a plastic Tau Orca whatever the rules or even without rules

Kroothawk wrote:I would like a plastic Tau Orca whatever the rules or even without rules

i'm surprised there is all this love for the orca which is basically a school bus in spaaaccee! unless they come out with a gunboat version, the standard "not meant to be a combat vehicle" would be a poor choice for the next big kit.

Kroothawk wrote:I would like a plastic Tau Orca whatever the rules or even without rules

Only if it comes with the parts to make "crashed" Orca piece too!

warboss wrote:i'm surprised there is all this love for the orca which is basically a school bus in spaaaccee! unless they come out with a gunboat version, the standard "not meant to be a combat vehicle" would be a poor choice for the next big kit.

They are kind of cool in Dawn of War, when they bring in new units. And as said, there is a command and a gunship variant of it, although both have not very impressive rules.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAj7sNnLVo4&feature=related

I'd like one for future Dark Heresy purposes, just like with Scourge the Heretic.

The Forge World Orca kit costs nearly £300. How much would a good polystyrene kit cost from GW?

Same as a Baneblade no doubt.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Interesting - the math nerd in me would like to see a plot of the people who like the Lucius vs. the Mars by the year they started playing Warhammer. I'd postulate that folks that prefer the Lucius Pattern are generally newer players compared to those that prefer the Mars Pattern (which is more akin to old skool Epic styling). Again, I say generally - but I'd bet that'd be the trend we'd see.

I prefer the Lucius, and I started back in 2nd edition. But one of the main things that got me into 40K was I was given a deck of cards with pictures of old Epic war machines for some card game. And I loved most of the designs, but I always thought the old round warhound with a literal dog head looked silly. The first time I saw a Lucius pattern I thought, "finally, the warhound design makes sense!"

Kanluwen wrote:Only if it comes with the parts to make "crashed" Orca piece too!

I'm not interested in an actual Orca model, but I would love a low-price Orca wreck piece.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Same as a Baneblade no doubt.

That sounds realistic.

The Orca is probably about the same size.

Kilkrazy wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Same as a Baneblade no doubt.

That sounds realistic.

The Orca is probably about the same size.

But with a lot less pieces, unless they include options for at least the gunship version.
And they can make the mobile HQ as an upgrade kit, eventually.

The Gunship version should be included in the kit.

They could include interior detail -- the crew and passengers -- though that is irrelevant in game terms.

Gunship variant of the Orca? Extra guns go where?

BrookM wrote:Gunship variant of the Orca? Extra guns go where?

is this gunship and command variant a dawn of war thing? i don't recall seeing it in any apoc or forgeworld books.

Oh, right. Dawn of War mods can be ignored for the most part.

How much do people think a plastic titan would cost? I think £60 Baneblades are pretty good value, so I'd guess a Titan would be about £60-£100?

Would be more expensive than a Stompa or Baneblade, unless they cut corners and leave stuff out.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Forge World Orca kit costs nearly £300. How much would a good polystyrene kit cost from GW?

To be fair, it does come with 6 crisis suits and a bunch of drones.... Take those out and it's still darn expensive but not jaw droppingly so.

Take out the Fire Warrior passengers and maybe go as far as removing the command centre interior and you've got a kit that can be sold at or below Baneblade price. Though I would like me a lazy Ethereal in a chair, would make for a great centre piece in Rogue Trader negotiations.

Are the things he's holding supposed to be weird ceiling-mounted restraints or something?

No. They're ritual blades, used as a sign of office and similar to the Bonding Knives carried by groups of Fire Warriors who've gone through a ritual.

Balance wrote:Are the things he's holding supposed to be weird ceiling-mounted restraints or something?

Sonic knitting needles for those long journeys.

Kanluwen wrote:No. They're ritual blades, used as a sign of office and similar to the Bonding Knives carried by groups of Fire Warriors who've gone through a ritual.

That, or they are backscratchers.

Kanluwen wrote:No. They're ritual blades, used as a sign of office and similar to the Bonding Knives carried by groups of Fire Warriors who've gone through a ritual.

Yep.

Somewhat bizarrely, the preferred conflict resolution procedure for arguments between the philosopher priest-kings of the ultimate no melee faction is a throwdown using space naginatas.

Huh. Ok. Then the pose just doesn't work for me, personally.

BrookM wrote:Gunship variant of the Orca? Extra guns go where?

Kroothawk wrote:And it has an official (Epic) Rocket Gunship version, the Scorpionfish (2 x Twin Linked Missile Pod, 2 x Smart Missile System, Tracer Missiles, Interceptor Missiles, Seeker Missiles, Multiple Markerlights, no transport capacity, see pic) and the Dragonfish Command Vehicle (floating HQ with Ion Cannon, 2 x Twin Linked Burst Cannons, Seeker Missiles).

As said, these are official Epic rules.

vaatbak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No. They're ritual blades, used as a sign of office and similar to the Bonding Knives carried by groups of Fire Warriors who've gone through a ritual.

That, or they are backscratchers.

uggh... you're all wrong. look at all the TV monitors around him... he's obviously dual wielding wii-motes.


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Kroothawk wrote:As said, these are official Epic rules.

cool, i change my mind. put me in with the other captain ahabs in clamoring for more whale!

warboss wrote:

vaatbak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No. They're ritual blades, used as a sign of office and similar to the Bonding Knives carried by groups of Fire Warriors who've gone through a ritual.

That, or they are backscratchers.

uggh... you're all wrong. look at all the TV monitors around him... he's obviously dual wielding wii-motes.


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Ah I see, he's playing super mario galaxy

Balance wrote:Huh. Ok. Then the pose just doesn't work for me, personally.

Think of it like this. He's got the blades crossed where all his men can see him, and is in a very calm pose...while they're dropping from orbit to a fiery battle.

Does wonders for morale, right?

He is about to lead off the traditional pre-battle fierce warrior dance.

"I put my right hand in,
"I put my right hand out,
"In out, in out.
"Shake it all about."

etc...

Kanluwen wrote:

Balance wrote:Huh. Ok. Then the pose just doesn't work for me, personally.

Think of it like this. He's got the blades crossed where all his men can see him, and is in a very calm pose...while they're dropping from orbit to a fiery battle.

Does wonders for morale, right?

He just looks annoyed and tense to me. Perhaps a bit constipated, even.

It's not a bad quality mini (that would ruin an expensive kit, after all) just not the greatest pose, perhaps.

If he was to indicate calmness, I guess I'd prefer a pose that doesn't have a death-grip on the blades. Not that FW should really consider me a customer segment to satisfy, as I don'tt hink I could justify that kind of purchase any time soon.

Kilkrazy wrote:He is about to lead off the traditional pre-battle fierce warrior dance.

"I put my right hand in,
"I put my right hand out,
"In out, in out.
"Shake it all about."

etc...

i agree that it's a traditional prebattle dance but i believe the words go more along the lines of "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive".

in the grim dark future, there is only... disco! (which would really make it grimdark for me...)




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Balance wrote:He just looks annoyed and tense to me. Perhaps a bit constipated, even.

lol, well, technically is on something that looks like a throne potty. i think he'd look nice in a negotiation diorama with the space hulk lazy/dead marine conversion i did. (see my gallery under my armies).

they bought the trygon out in to plastic why not any other big forge world thing but that would mean less cool detailed models but ahwell

Kilkrazy wrote:He is about to lead off the traditional pre-battle fierce warrior dance.

Like ... Space Marines would never do such thing:

A Moderator wrote:No FU posters, please.

Kroothawk wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:He is about to lead off the traditional pre-battle fierce warrior dance.

Like ... Space Marines would never do such thing:

A Moderator wrote:No FU posters, please.

0_0 Well honestly if you saw a few hundred space marines slaughtering your forces while singing love is a battlefield, then that would be pretty scary.

I like to think that Ethereal is disappoint. Really disappoint. Just look at that face. He is disappoint at his men.

He is very happy. Tau smiles upside down compared to human.

So he turns his back on them and "smiles" ?

Too bad he got the "dead pharaoh" pose...

They just took the limited edition 3rd edition ethereal sculpt and seated it:

Yeah, not crazy about that guy, either, really.

Kroothawk wrote:They just took the limited edition 3rd edition ethereal sculpt and seated it:

He really needs a pipe and a monocle.

I would like to see a plastic titan or titans. I love the current superheavies and the Stompa.

I am older than most Dakkites and I like the Lucius better...in case anyone was keeping score.

JB wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:They just took the limited edition 3rd edition ethereal sculpt and seated it:

He really needs a pipe and a monocle.

I would like to see a plastic titan or titans. I love the current superheavies and the Stompa.

I am older than most Dakkites and I like the Lucius better...in case anyone was keeping score.

which Lucius though? the wolf or the jackal?

I wouldnt mind a plastic warhound. I like the Lucius more, but a combined set would be cool

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:which Lucius though? the wolf or the jackal?

What's the difference? The only thing I noticed is the placement of the Aquila.

vaatbak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:No. They're ritual blades, used as a sign of office and similar to the Bonding Knives carried by groups of Fire Warriors who've gone through a ritual.

That, or they are backscratchers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tlT2RF0v2g


Oh, and I started in Rogue Trader.......and I prefer the Lucius pattern.

AlexHolker wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:which Lucius though? the wolf or the jackal?

What's the difference? The only thing I noticed is the placement of the Aquila.

Jackal: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/LPWHJack2.jpg

Wolf: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/Wolfalt10.jpg

Seems I’m in the minority then. The Lucius would be an easier Pattern to convert to plastic I guess.

How do you figure?

It looks like "Boxy" is in the lead, much to my dismay!

But yes, ultimately IF we get a plastic Warhound it WILL be a boxy version because that is far easier to get into plastic...

Looks like I'm stuck with an overpriced resin version!!!

Alpharius wrote:Looks like I'm stuck with an overpriced resin version!!!

Oh. Poor you.


For me, I much prefer the Mars variant.

Yeah, so do I!

And by 'stuck with the resin version' I mean MAYBE someday I'll break down and buy the FW Mars variant - but I doubt I'll have that much available in the hobby fund.

Ever!

Alpharius wrote:Yeah, so do I!

And by 'stuck with the resin version' I mean MAYBE someday I'll break down and buy the FW Mars variant - but I doubt I'll have that much available in the hobby fund.

Ever!

Not worth it?




It is worth the money every penny my bro payed

They are both cool, but the Mars looks... older. I like the Lucius Wolf more. The boxy look is appealing. And you could airdrop units on top.

Pfft. Mars pattern is best pattern.

* Chaos Titans win.....

The Dreadnote wrote:Pfft. Mars pattern is best pattern.

I knew I like The Dreadnote for some reason.

(Some other reason than Summer Glau, of course!)

The mars pattern warhound is well worth the money. Once you see the get the kit and see how many heavy resin parts it uses.

Alpharius wrote:

The Dreadnote wrote:Pfft. Mars pattern is best pattern.

I knew I like The Dreadnote for some reason.

(Some other reason than Summer Glau, of course!)

Hey...

I much prefer the Mars pattern too! And I don't know who Summer Glau is, but I liker her name...

The girl in my avatar, star of Firefly, Serenity, and Terminator: the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Don't get me wrong, lucius hounds are pretty cool. But then it's basically made from boxes - you can build one from folded paper and it looks much the same as the original. The Mars, however, just says to me "Check it out. I am the ultimate badass. State of the badass art. You do not want to feth with me." I think I'd prefer to see the lucius in plastic, though. That way the Mars would retain it's exclusive, more-badass-than-thou position as a top quality resin kit.

If i remember my classics right:

"Check it out. I am the ultimate badass. State of the badass art. You do not want to feth with me."

was said by the really skittish, overly macho-wannabe insecure guy who had to get smacked around by Ripley in the movie to even be effective... I do like the rounded look far more than the brick though

The Hive Tyrant (um i mean Alien Queen..) was much more badass

Wow this thread has gone a long time considering there's no real news in it.

Just Dave wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Looks like I'm stuck with an overpriced resin version!!!

Oh. Poor you.


For me, I much prefer the Mars variant.

I too prefer the smooth sexiness of Mars Pattern Warhounds. I don't play Guard, and I'd still buy one. Or two.

Alpharius wrote:

Looks like I'm stuck with an overpriced resin version!!!

you could sell a spare organ.....or a neighbors spare organ

or plasma, like those crazy college kids

One of the customers at my local store said he recently took the tour of the GW studio and the person walked him past an area by mistake that is not normally included in the tour. The new fliers were on display, new SoB model and more. He said there's a flier for virtually every 40K army out there, which is the second time I've heard that now from two different sources. And I've heard the "summer of fliers" bit from yet another very reliable person too. Let's hope some of this cool new stuff is released sooner rather than later.

I wish that they would start thinking about plastic Plague Marines.

Mattlov wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Looks like I'm stuck with an overpriced resin version!!!

Oh. Poor you.


For me, I much prefer the Mars variant.

I too prefer the smooth sexiness of Mars Pattern Warhounds. I don't play Guard, and I'd still buy one. Or two.

WTF guys?

I ALREADY STATED THAT THE MARS PATTERN WAS MY FAVORITE!

Sheesh!

I know that! Doesn't give you an excuse to complain about owning a Titan!

Hmm a long time ago I remember a thread about thunderhawks, and the staff said it will be in the works and that they are trying to find a suitable amount for the plastic kit.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/275135.page

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I wish that they would start thinking about plastic Plague Marines.

agreed, but add plastic thousand sons and emperor's children to the list as well. here's hoping for the fllyers this summer instead of next

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:I wish that they would start thinking about plastic Plague Marines.

I know I'd buy more stuff from the Summer of Long Overdue Plastic Infantry than from the Summer of Fliers.

AlexHolker wrote:
I know I'd buy more stuff from the Summer of Long Overdue Plastic Imperial Guard Regiments than from the Summer of Fliers.

Fixed that for you

I would like to see some of the other IG armoured units rather than something big...

You know like the Hydra or the Artillery kits...

Oh how I long for the Griffon! Alas!

I believe theese rumors to be true,I have heard before that GW was waiting on the machines to be paid off.If any body remember GW releasead a metal thunderhawk before, if they still have the mold it would be very easy for them to manufacture.On some of the other kits might be questionible but i could see a150 to 200 dollar price range.

The metal Thunderhawk would be of absolutely no use for any mass market kit they'd produce now. It consisted of hundreds of loose pewter pieces that didn't fit very well together. Originally it was never meant to be for sale at all, it was something they did for nice diorama photos for use in White Dwarf and other marketing materials, but fan response was so great they decided to sell a limited number of them. It was incredibly difficult to build, much tougher than a Forge World model and was not suitable for mass release at all and those molds would certainly not be suitable for a plastic sprue.

And it was so heavy it bent the landing gear.

But at least it came in a bitching sweet wooden box with logo on it.

And it was an old-style Thunderhawk anyway. It wouldn't fit with the current aesthetic.

What about the chibi-hawk?

That doesn't fit with any aesthetic.

Hrm, with the mention of almost every race getting something, could this be what we're looking at for the Summer:

Imperial Guard (Navy): Thunderbolt
Space Marines: ??? Or maybe the Thunderhawk, iffy I know but still..
Eldar: Nightwing
Dark Eldar: Raven
Orks: Fighta
Chaos: Hell Talon
Tau Empire: Barracuda
Necrons: ???
Tyranids: Harridan?

Good call. But how about a combined Eldar Phoenix/Void Dragon kit?

As for necrons Can’t see a new release before a new codex.

I would be a good window to release a thunder hawk.

I know it's probably less likely but I could see GW doing the Tigershark for tau as it has two variants (or maby that's just me wishing because I hate the barracuda)

But I could also see each race getting some sort of anti-air weapon as well, maby why the hydra has been delayed...

I really wouldn't expect Super-Heavies for a first release. The Thunderhawk is the only exception, as it's iconic. The rest (other than perhaps the Fighta Bomba) aren't.

Yeah, I can see some sort of ground based anti-aircraft weapons being included in the rules.

Pylon for necrons?

I don't think i've ever heard of necron aircraft anywhere

I wouldn't exactly call the Fighta-bomma a super-heavy, don't know why GW did, seeing as it's basically a fighta kit with wing extensions, a larger tail and a ball turret behind the cockpit.

As for the other choices, I went with the most obvious using the Thunderbolt as the primary example. None, except for the T-Hawk, are super-heavies and all are fighter aircraft, which fit in more with the general idea of what has been hinted at. My only iffy inclusion is the Harridan, which had bio-points if not mistaken?

No, you're right. I can see how what I wrote above might have implied that. I didn't meant to imply the Fighta Bomba was a super-heavy flier.

What I meant is that there are no iconic aircraft in 40K outside of the Thunderhawk and Fighta Bomba. Even the Thunderbolt isn't iconic, even if it is well known.


And I'd expect the Harpy before we ever get a plastic Harridan.

I thought that the T-Bolt was the iconic fighter of the Imperium? Old fluff and epic make it out that way.

yeah it is, but it's not really mentioned in the newer fluff (IIRC)

as long as they don't bring out the lightning instead i'll be fine, I love the T-bolt but my FW funds are dry ATM :`(

It's going to be a T-Bolt for sure, seeing as it is in the Apocalypse book.

Perhaps a bit lacking in logic, but it works for me.

BrookM wrote:Space Marines: ??? Or maybe the Thunderhawk, iffy I know but still..

Imagine the internet nerd rage if all Space Marines were getting was the chibi-hawk we already knew about.

JOHIRA wrote:

BrookM wrote:Space Marines: ??? Or maybe the Thunderhawk, iffy I know but still..

Imagine the internet nerd rage if all Space Marines were getting was the chibi-hawk we already knew about.

I would laugh, then watch the rage on the fourums, them buy a two T-bolts

AgeOfEgos wrote:This plastic Thunderhawk is going to be a generational thing.




"I remember Jimmy, back in the day, when we had to walk uphill both ways to get our rumors from the telegraph. Plastic Thunderhawk! they would say...coming soon, just wait! Well, all those years wasted...I should have just forked out the 2 dollars back then to buy one. But no, everyone said wait! Best years of my life wasted waiting on the plastic glory that never flew..."

LOL. You sir, win one (1) Internet.

And despite the Manta rumor being more far fetched than the rest (a plastic Manta kit box would be as big or bigger than most army boxes. That's alot of store real estate on an undoubtedly $200+ model...) I would buy two Orcas. Let me clarify: I would get back into 40k and buy 2 for my Tau army. A Barricuda... maybe. I'll think about it. But Orcas? Done, done, and done.

FM Ninja 048 wrote:yeah it is, but it's not really mentioned in the newer fluff (IIRC)

Are you sure?

A rumor is merely an idea. Don't have high hopes.

If the thunderbolt does come out ( seems very likely). I hope there will be an apocalypse formation data sheet so I can field a squadron.

BrassScorpion wrote:those molds would certainly not be suitable for a plastic sprue.

Bingo. Molds cant be interchanged between materials. Just having a mold for XXXXX model doesnt mean you can now produce it in any material desired.

Plastic is injected into a mold under high pressure, not poured like resin or metal. Plastic molds are made of either iron, steel, or aluminum, and dont work unless installed into an injection molding machine. The process is as different from metal and resin molding as could possibly be.

I wouldnt mind seeing a plastic titan of some sort. Id prefer a Knight myself. Im not a huge fan of the warhound...however if they made one that wasnt too crazy price wise I would add it to my mecha & armor collection.

Is it not more likely that the GW definition of these 'flyers' will be 'anything that goes on the large plastic flying base first created for the Valkyrie'.

On that basis IG already have the Valkyrie/Vendetta, BA and GK are getting the Stormraven (which will doubtless soon be extended to have all chapters take it), DE are expecting the Razorwing/Voidraven.

I would assume that a similar line of thinking will be applied to other 40k races. I can see Tau getting a Barracuda, Eldar a Nightwing, Orks a Fighta/Fighta-Bomber which in each case will be treated as a fast or super-fast skimmer.

We will probably also see each race getting some kind of AA which will have comparable rules to the Hydra (ie negating the effects of skimmers moving fast).


This will allow the new stuff to be seemlessly inegrated into the existing Codices and will not need any new 'flyer rules' to be added to the core set.The next stage may be some flyer rules in an expansion or WD supplement as a test bed for a possible 6th edition ruleset.

Just my $0.02

So they won't really be fliers, just large skimmers.

I that will work much better within the rules as they stand.

The proliferation of AA units will weaken Tau and Eldar disproportionately, of course.

Kilkrazy wrote:So they won't really be fliers, just large skimmers.

I that will work much better within the rules as they stand.

The proliferation of AA units will weaken Tau and Eldar disproportionately, of course.

On the other hand, they're the sides with the best flyers, so those AA would be at their worst against them. Realistically speaking.

Also, I remember someone THEORISING/SUGGESTING that it could potentially be alongside a rules expansion (ala. Spearhead/Apoc) so flier rules could be in order?

This isn't even a rumour with any foundation of course, but it's still a thought...

Just Dave wrote:Also, I remember someone THEORISING/SUGGESTING that it could potentially be alongside a rules expansion (ala. Spearhead/Apoc) so flier rules could be in order?

This isn't even a rumour with any foundation of course, but it's still a thought...

The rumor for a fliers expansion has been going on for quite some time now, and is pretty much the reason we're having this conversation in the first place.

Probably too much to hope for, but a Hydra alongside those flyers would be shiny.

Though if need be, under FW ruling Manticores can fire AA missiles as well.

Unless I am seriously mistaken GW just released their quarterly report, and profits were down correct? It strikes me as unlikely for alot of the big things, or things that are unlikely to make a large profit to be released.

The Summer flyers rumors seem to pretty pervasive, and I suspect several smaller flyers will be released with (I hope) flyer rules, but really big things like thunderhawks seems like a stretch. Can they really make enough money on back on developement and manufacturing for a model that will retail for $300-$400? Most of the people willing to pay that are willing to pay forge world prices, and have already bought a $600 model.

I suspect most of the flyer models upcoming will be in the size range of Valks and the Stormraven, and will probably sell for $60-$100

I don't think a plastic Thunderhawk, if it is ever released, will retail for anywhere near $300, never mind $400...

a plastic... thunderhawk or titan... that would be something I'd waste my money on... also on a Thunderbolt.

KOS wrote:a plastic... thunderhawk or titan... that would be something I'd waste my money on... also on a Thunderbolt.

Wouldn't most of us! A Thunderbolt seems a good likely candidate for this coming summer.

Alpharius wrote:I don't think a plastic Thunderhawk, if it is ever released, will retail for anywhere near $300, never mind $400...

Agreed. I'd expect the Thunderhawk to be ~$200, and $60 for most other fliers. Something big like a Marauder or =I= Gun-cutter might be $100.

GW has been quite careful till now to respect the $100 mark when it comes to their main product line plastic kits. I shudder to think what prices will be like once they decide to break that barrier. :(

I think it would be best for them if they do a thunderhawk to try and keep it down around baneblade & stompa prices. and smaller flyers like a land raider or valkyrie. They'd sell bazillions.

I could see GW do the T-Hawk for around the same price as the Baneblade or Stompa. Chances are they won't, but they could.

A Thunderhawk is so much larger than a baneblade, in its current FW incarnation. If we see a Thunderhawk for $100, it will be smaller than the FW one. It would be more similar in size to the 2nd edition metal kit... roughly 1/3rd to 2/5th smaller.

If GW chooses to stick closely to this size of Thunderhawk, $100 wouldn't leave them with much profit margin. In the not too distant past, there were army boxes in the $140 range. I think GW would struggle to justify internally such a large kit at $100 and would probably be forced by the bookeepers to set the price at a higher range.

aka_mythos wrote:A Thunderhawk is so much larger than a baneblade, in its current FW incarnation. If we see a Thunderhawk for $100, it will be smaller than the FW one. It would be more similar in size to the 2nd edition metal kit... roughly 1/3rd to 2/5th smaller.

If GW chooses to stick closely to this size of Thunderhawk, $100 wouldn't leave them with much profit margin. In the not too distant past, there were army boxes in the $140 range. I think GW would struggle to justify internally such a large kit at $100 and would probably be forced by the bookeepers to set the price at a higher range.

Exactly. How many Spues are in a baneblade kit? The FW thunderhawk is 3xbigger (or so) than a baneblade. How could they even begin to justify the profit margin of selling a model for $100 that has 3x more parts than any of their other $100 kits. Thats why I find it highly unlikely that they'll release a thunderhawk. Not to mention that the thing is so damned big you can really only use it in an apoc game anyway. The market's to small for such a big model, and that's why they have FW.

The market isn't really "too small" for a straight import from resin-to-plastic Thunderhawk.

Think of all the Marine players, of all stripes, out there right now.

They could seriously make a killing even if each Marine player only bought one at the $100 price point.

Kanluwen wrote:The market isn't really "too small" for a straight import from resin-to-plastic Thunderhawk.

Think of all the Marine players, of all stripes, out there right now.

They could seriously make a killing even if each Marine player only bought one at the $100 price point.

$150 would be the turning point for me. At that point, thats about 3 months + of my modelling/recreation budget.

But I'd still covet one tremendously up to about $200. After that, forget about it.

Warhound: $100ish.. = pretty much instabuy.

wolfshadow wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The market isn't really "too small" for a straight import from resin-to-plastic Thunderhawk.

Think of all the Marine players, of all stripes, out there right now.

They could seriously make a killing even if each Marine player only bought one at the $100 price point.

$150 would be the turning point for me. At that point, thats about 3 months + of my modelling/recreation budget.

But I'd still covet one tremendously up to about $200. After that, forget about it.

Warhound: $100ish.. = pretty much instabuy.

i'd suspect that the warhound, if sized the same as the FW version, would run about $150 due to the size and compared with the baneblade. If they redid it in the size of that ugly little armorcast version, it could come in at $100. I won't even venture a guess at the thunderhawk since i haven't seen either version (metal or resin) in person in many years.

edit: as a side note... does anyone have any pics of a stompa next to a FW warhound? i'd be curious to see the scale between those too and it might give us a more accurate basis for the wild conjecture in this thread (that i'm currently contributing to!).

I think the mythical plastic Warhound and/or Thunderhawk will come in at the $149 to $199 price range.

Higher than that, and sticker shock will prevent sales...

I think that range is reasonable. The Warhound in terms of size is baneblade with legs. The thunderhawk is really double a baneblade. GW could easily play certain tricks to drive down costs such as making individual sprues that get used twice... like on a T-hawk's wings and weapons, or a Warhound's weapons and weapon mounts and leg joints... and that could always bring down the price but even then you're still looking at something in the $140~$150 range.

I think with the thunderhawk, it'd be easy enough to shrink its size down a little; 19" x 17" is a bit ridiculous to fit on a table. Even at say 15"x13.5" it'd still be impressive and look like it could carry a bunch.

I think GW is more inclined to pluck at lower hanging fruit. Things that are "fighter" sized aircraft and vehicles in the Baneblade size first. This isn't to say GW won't do large kits, just that they'll likely work up to them.

I think the Thunderhawk is really likely, in the long run, and stands a good chance of being GW's largest plastic kit ever, one day. The simple fact is all the Space Marines arries collectively constitute something like half of all the sales revenue GW brings in... effectively more than Warhammer Fantasy. That means something like 1:2 players has marines of some sort. If GW could justify a $100 kit for orks and that catered to a fan base smaller than 5% of sales... in an instance of direct proportionality of supply/demand GW could get away with $1000 Marine kits... now we know that few would really go buy that and that its a more parabolic curve. Point is the higher volume of potential purchasers supports a higher price resulting from the size and lower per potential buyer sales.... this is the sales model FW works by. The "sticker shock" could be absorbed simply because of the volume of potential buyers. Think of it this way to justify a Stompa sized marine kit, only requires 1:10 marine players to buy it. To justify a $150 dollar kit only need 1:7 marine players. Even still that rational assumes that every ork player bought a Stompa to justify its sale, thats not the case meaning an even smaller group of buyers is needed to justify it.

I just think, for me anyway, $100 is really my limit for a model, anything more than that and I feel like it's just too much money for 1 toy. I get the idea lots of folks are like that, so thats why I think they should try to keep it in the baneblade price level. Like was mentioned they could double up on sprues like for the wings, weapons, etc. If they can't make it $100, I'd rather see them release something different that could be $100 or less and let FW handle the rest.

easy just make it a 50pt upgrade for all other marine chapters besides BA to deepstrike your land raider (but make it so all deepstriking landraiders need a thunderhawk)

what could go wrong with that?

warboss wrote:edit: as a side note... does anyone have any pics of a stompa next to a FW warhound? i'd be curious to see the scale between those too and it might give us a more accurate basis for the wild conjecture in this thread (that i'm currently contributing to!).

Here's one off google:

Really makes that $150-$199 price seem about right.

cool, thanks for the pic find. yeah, it has enough bulk to warrant a $150 price. for me personally, that'd be the most i'd be willing to pay for one though as its a self imposed limit on what i'm willing to pay for a plastic toy soldier.

It's enough bulk, but would GW have the fully detailed interior that the FW one has?

though I hope they only make the lucius pattern in plastic (if they ever make a plastic one) 'cause that means when I get my Mars it would still be exclusive

FM Ninja 048 wrote:It's enough bulk, but would GW have the fully detailed interior that the FW one has?

though I hope they only make the lucius pattern in plastic (if they ever make a plastic one) 'cause that means when I get my Mars it would still be exclusive

I would want the one that looks the most like metal gear rex... no apparent reason

FM Ninja 048 wrote:It's enough bulk, but would GW have the fully detailed interior that the FW one has?

though I hope they only make the lucius pattern in plastic (if they ever make a plastic one) 'cause that means when I get my Mars it would still be exclusive

I think it woul likely have detail on the inside. For each piece that composes the main hull of the Warhoud, there is an inside surface and it makes little or no difference if that inside surface is blank or has detail.

If it makes you feel better, it would be very difficult for GW to manufacture the large curved surfaces of a Mars pattern, without making it as one big piece. Given that it exceeds GW mold sizes they need new equipment and on top of that it curves around, it would never come out of a plastic mold. Given the changes that would need to be made for that basic style to work, it would look different enough you couldn't really call it Mars pattern any more. The Lucius pattern, its really easy imagine it going together and I imagine GW would go with it for that reason alone. I could then see FW do a conversion kit to turn a plastic Lucius pattern into a Mars pattern.

I think a lot of SM players would buy a Thunderhawk kit even though it sounds too large to be playable on table in a normal game.

GW should look at the boost in sales of sideline models too. For instance, a $100-$150 Warlord would make those not quite so rare on the battle field.
To counter the sudden influx of Titans GW would sell alot more TH/SH Termies as guys build up Hammer-units to deal with the problem. Or Las-Las Preds, Land Raider varients, etc.

The cost of developing and selling a new kit from drawing board to actual packaged model must be off-set by projected sales. Sales must be projected to be high enough to cover all development and marketing costs plus produce a profit of a minimum percent set by their business model and at a price where the kits will actually be purchased in sufficient quantity. Kits that can't meet that all those criteria will never be produced.

Those sideline sales are no different than the sales they saw when Baneblades and Stompas came out. Anyone who would buy those to supplement their force has them and wouldn't necessarily need more. So it wouldn't be that drastic.

I think GW understands that and thats why their current efforts are aircraft units. The sideline units to fight those are different than the ones that fight in Apocolyspe against superheavy tanks and walkers. So there will be a higher volume of sideline sales with this.

I expect parallel to the aircraft models release we'll see GW release rules that add a number of anti-aircraft options to ground units. Such as a Skyrays, Manticores, and Whirlwinds getting some upgrade option. If the aircraft play is tied to Apocalypse style rules, GW would likely make these options tied to formations, requiring groups of multiples of those to get the anti-aircraft benefits and thus boosting their sales.


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BrassScorpion wrote:The cost of developing and selling a new kit from drawing board to actual packaged model must be off-set by projected sales. Sales must be projected to be high enough to cover all development and marketing costs plus produce a profit of a minimum percent set by their business model and at a price where the kits will actually be purchased in sufficient quantity. Kits that can't meet that all those criteria will never be produced.

You have put more succinctly what I was trying to get at. The fact is so many players play marines that even at a higher price the likelyhood of enough players buying a thunderhawk to justify the larger price tag is better than it was for Ork players buying Stompas. So it really just comes down to GW having enough resources to allocate to it.

maby deathstrikes as well on a sucessful hit, remove ALL fliers from play

Well their marketing budget for new stuff can't be that big.. I mean, isn't it like..

Step 1: Get the newest intern to make new Dakka & Warseer accounts and post totally made up rumors that are 99% false 3 years ahead of time to build a buzz.
Step 2: 1 year before release, rinse and repeat with another new intern, and new fake rumors followed by a blurry, tiny, bad quality pic.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

There needs to be a plastic Hydra.

GalacticDefender wrote:There needs to be a plastic Hydra.

i agree with you, they also need the other artillery tanks guard can take but hey two years later and we still have just the basilisk

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

GalacticDefender wrote:There needs to be a plastic Hydra.

i agree with you, they also need the other artillery tanks guard can take but hey two years later and we still have just the basilisk

and the manticore/deathstrike

And just about every other tank available in the Imperial Guard codex...

Hydra, Griffon, Medusa, and Colossus are the only vehicles IG need kits for. The vendetta is technically in that, but GW's said just to use the FW or convert.