5321
Post by: Aldonis
Just a heads up to the Dakka Community on an upcoming event for the North American clubs....
From Shane Grubb - owner of Dicehead Games in Chattanooga (an awesome game store owner who truly loves the game and knows how to run a good tournament):
The ATC (similar to the ETC) Club challenge is going to happen in May in Chattanooga. Shane will be advertising it at Adepticon this year.
They went with May since they already had a venue and location set for the Siege convention that Dicehead sponsors each year. So for year one - the ATC will be a part of the Siege. Assuming that it's successful - I think Shane is looking at Nashville or Atlanta in the future - but want's to see interest in it first.
Here's linky to website: http://www.diceheadsiege.com/
A lot of the well known clubs have expressed interest in attending - Wrecking Crew, Team Toledo, 'Da Boyz, BOLS, Battle for Salvation, etc....
As the Team Captain for the Nashville Blade and Bolter Boyz - consider your clubs challenged! Here's a chance to throw down.....
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Updated:
This summer the Siege (annual convention hosted by Dicehead Games in Cleveland, TN) will be hosting a Club Challenge tournament. It's an ETC style event designed to pit the best players from different clubs across the US against each other.
Here are the details at present:
The American Team Championship is where the best of the best will come together to decide who is the #1 Club/Team in North America!
There are many details to be posted and worked out and we will be continually updating this page with all the info as decisions are made.
Here's what we have to date - More Details to Follow Soon!
5 Member Teams.
Every Member on the Team Must use a different Codex Army.
2000 Points per player.
Maximum 1 Special Character per Army List.
6 Games (4 Saturday, 2 Sunday)
No Painting or Composition Scores.
ALL models MUST be WYSIWYG!
Sportsmanship will be taken into account - more details to follow
Trophies will be given for Best Painted, Best Sportsmanship, Best General, Best Team (each member will be rewarded a trophy) and Best Theme.
Mission(s) are currently being play-tested but will basically be a combination of the Rulebook Missions.
Link to site: http://www.diceheadsiege.com/2673.html
Their are already several well known clubs that are planning to attend. Will be a great gathering of some of the best known 40K players in the US. A great event to get a group of your best buddies together and compete for a two day 6 game slug fest.
C'mon down!
Al Gleason - Team Captain - Blade and Bolter Boyz
782
Post by: DarthDiggler
Contrary to some, I felt the exclusion of SC's from the ETC promoted a more diverse army list design across the board. I also feel 5 players per team is not enough to dip into the non-power books. It might be a cookie cutter fest in May.
Logan Wolves
Mephiston BA
Vulkan Marines
Ghaz Orks
IG
Rinse repeat. At theleast those will be the 5 armies most represented by far. The ETC forced 8 players per team and people had to play other things.
It should be fun though. I'd like to see painting required, but YMMV.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Cool man - I think the thoughts on SC went back and forth for ETC - at this one you get 1 per list. Will see what it does. I can tell you at least for our team it's different from what you posted. I think they went with 5 players per team due to logistics as well as challenges getting more people than that together and to Chattanooga in a relatively short timeframe.
I think the requirement for painted armies will be there - it's just not part of the scoring.
Grab some buddies and head down. Shane and Mel run a great tourney.
963
Post by: Mannahnin
Aldonis wrote:Cool man - I think the thoughts on SC went back and forth for ETC - at this one you get 1 per list. Will see what it does. I can tell you at least for our team it's different from what you posted. I think they went with 5 players per team due to logistics as well as challenges getting more people than that together and to Chattanooga in a relatively short timeframe.
Sounds good. The should probably make it "named" characters, though, as I don't think they're all labeled "special" anymore.
Aldonis wrote:I think the requirement for painted armies will be there - it's just not part of the scoring.
That's good. No way I'd travel that far for an event which didn't require painting. As it is, this is extremely tempting. Might be a little too short notice for me to get five Cold Steel Mercs together, sadly. :( Our US members are all in the Northeast or Midwest (and one CO).
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Would love to see you guys there - good point on "special" characters. Working to get the Battle for Salvation guys there from your neck of the woods also.
It's in Chattanooga - so not too bad to get too. The hotel is reasonable priced. Lots to do in the area.
782
Post by: DarthDiggler
Aldonis wrote:
It's in Chattanooga - so not too bad to get too. The hotel is reasonable priced. Lots to do in the area.
I'm not sure when in the summer this is, but Chattanooga is not far from Cherokee National Forest and they have the Atlanta Olympics White Water River Rafting course there. It's not to difficult of a course and a ton of fun for the family. You can rent a log cabin in the mountains for a reasonable price and raft the river. It wouldn't be to hard to turn 2 days of 40k into a 4 day mini vacation for the family.
14076
Post by: MVBrandt
Would be interested in more details on missions, and such, and in making sure the local team isn't assisting with planning / organizing / playtesting.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I believe that the mission is pretty straight forward - the basic missions from the rule book all combined into 1 - you have three conditions - Seize Ground (3 objectives), Capture and control, and Annihilation for each mission. Whoever can get the most wins. That's what they are talking now - but not sure it's finalized.
Using VP's for tie breakers.
Not sure if Dicehead has a local club playing or not....my team is from Nashville. Just trying to help get it off the ground by getting the word out to get some of the top teams there. No need to worry about "home field advantage".
A team Nova would be awesome to see there.
16600
Post by: Spacecurves
I just want to say I support the idea of this tournament 100%, I'm really glad this is being created. The more events like this there are, the more experienced our player base will be for future American Teams. I doubt I'll have the time to go this year, but I encourage everyone to make the trip down and support this event.
26733
Post by: Wi1ikers
I'll have a talk with some of the people in our group. Might have to make it out to this.
6308
Post by: TimmyMWD
Any chance at a fantasy division?
2776
Post by: Reecius
This look like fun! I have never been to TN, either. Italiaplaya and I might get a team together from the Bay.
It is one week before the SoCal Slaughter though, that might be the only thing holding me back. Traveling two weekends back to back is a bit rough, although the SoCal slaughter is only an hour flight, so it's not too bad.
@Darthdiggler
I think anymore than 5 teams and you start having logistical problems of actually finding enough people that can make it.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
While I'd normally be down I don't think it would happen for me this year. Though I could probably find a team that would take me  my personal travelling budget is getting more limited as I'll be travelling for Nova, Wargames and minimally for Bugeater and Adepticon. Add in the possibility of a west coast event and I'm out this year
Good luck to those attending!
465
Post by: Redbeard
I dunno, Darth, you're forgetting fateweaver daemons and eldrad eldar.
As a side note, whoever designed the website for this event should be shot. Don't make websites that play noises at your visitors, it's not cool.
9974
Post by: sabote
Reecius wrote:This look like fun! I have never been to TN, either. Italiaplaya and I might get a team together from the Bay.
It is one week before the SoCal Slaughter though, that might be the only thing holding me back. Traveling two weekends back to back is a bit rough, although the SoCal slaughter is only an hour flight, so it's not too bad.
@Darthdiggler
I think anymore than 5 teams and you start having logistical problems of actually finding enough people that can make it.
ah its only a little trip for you!!
I am going from Geneve Switzerland to the independent UK GT for a 2 day tournament and than one day later hop a plane and fly to chicago for Adepticon and back to Geneve. But I am still looking at doing this event and flying back to the states a few weeks later.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
You doggone better get you arse back across the pond for this one Sabote! You're homeboys need you on their team brother!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Starting to get teams signing up - not sure how many spots will be available - but if you are interested I think there's a good chance it will fill up quickly......
26733
Post by: Wi1ikers
So is it just 25 dollars, or is there a addition price for the tournament?
So far me reece and white925 are interested in coming. Just need 2 more players to commit.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Aldonis wrote:Starting to get teams signing up - not sure how many spots will be available - but if you are interested I think there's a good chance it will fill up quickly......
There is nothing on the site that allows for registering, or what the cost is per team (other than the $25 per person entry fee), etc., etc. Just some bare bones information and a cryptic message that more details are to come, and an e-mail address.
26733
Post by: Wi1ikers
Eldanar wrote:Aldonis wrote:Starting to get teams signing up - not sure how many spots will be available - but if you are interested I think there's a good chance it will fill up quickly......
There is nothing on the site that allows for registering, or what the cost is per team (other than the $25 per person entry fee), etc., etc. Just some bare bones information and a cryptic message that more details are to come, and an e-mail address.
Ya i thought the same thing... From what i got out of though, is you have to email them or call them up to register your team. And it would seem like its 25 dollars per person.
2776
Post by: Reecius
Yeah, we're interested for sure. We have Hulk as a maybe, and we would need one more player. I will ask at the Sprue Posse GT to see who's up for it.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I'll get with Shane and kick him in the ding-ding to get the site updated and more details out.....
So far I know of 6 or 7 teams that are looking at attending already - with some real good players on those teams.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW - awesome that you guys would come from the west coast - know that there are some top shelf players from that area - but don't know them as well as the Eastern US players.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Ok Guys, Shane from Dicehead Games & The SIEGE here:
The website will be updated hopefully within the next 24 hours (and the noise will be turned off!)
But to clear up a couple of things:
The General Admission to SIEGE is $25. This gets you access to TONS of games and events, but for Larger Events (or drafts where product is involved - Magic, Clix, etc - there is an additional charge)
There is an additional $20 fee for The ATC event if you do not pre-register/pre-pay.
If you Pre-Register/Prepay (Money Order or Paypal) it is an additional $15 instead of $20 (so $40 per person, $200 per team)
The Prize Support will be Really, Really Nice along with the Trophies and we do a lot of Random Prizes throughout as well.
Also, there are GW tournaments on Friday Night Plus All-Night RPGS and Board Games all weekend that you can play in for no additional charge!
Long Story Short - Your Money Gets you ALOT of stuff!!!
The Mission will be posted as well as some additional rules on painting and sportsmanship.
Registration is as follows (and will be up on the site ASAP for future reference)
HOW TO REGISTER for the ATC:
A brief note on Pre-Registration vs Showing up the day of:
Pre-Registration is HIGHLY recommended and is also cheaper!
We will be prepared for the amount of teams that have Pre-Registered plus 4 "Last Minute" teams for the last week/day of, UNLESS we sell out before!
Don't take your chances with being one of those 4 teams!
Pre-registration cut off is Saturday May 14th 2011
Pre-registration/Registration for The ATC Event is done through Dicehead Games & Comics.
INFORMATION NEEDED:
1 - The Full Name of EACH Team Member
2 - At least 1 email contact for the team (email contacts for EACH member is recommended if possible)
3 - The Name of the Team
4 - The State(s) that the Team is coming from
To Register :
You can call : (423) 473-7125
or email : shane@dicehead.com with " ATC Registratration" in the Subject Line
You can Prepay ($40 per person, $200 per team - this includes the base $25 Event Fee) by Money Order (call for address) or Paypal shane@dicehead.com
IMPORTANT : If you email and do not receive a response within 48 hours, please call the number above!
I NEED YOUR INPUT!!! So Please give it and I will do ALL that I can to accommodate everyone!
Thanks,
21
Post by: blood angel
I am so there.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Two points:
1. The sound is off on the main page, but not on the ATC information page. (Not a biggie, as I just hit the mute button, but just a fair warning to some folks.)
2. You listed placing objectives for both Capture and Control, and Seize Ground. Are these meant to be two seperate and distinct sets of objectives/victory conditions, or are you intending to lump all 5 objectives together into one pool of 5 objectives?
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Shane will need to confirm for sure - but I believe the idea is that you have all three basic mission objectives in play.
Two objectives for Capture and control
Three objectives for Seize Ground (seperate from C&C)
Then Kill Points
Achieving more of these than your opponent wins the game.
For ties or Draws - VP would be the tie breaker - so you always have a winner for each game.
So with 5 players per team - you will not have any ties for the Team vs. Team matchup.
Don't know if that's finalized - but that was what he was thinking last time I talked with him.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
So the Seize and Control objectives are a different set of victory conditions from the Seize Ground objectives.
How is he planning on doing tournament or team points? Will there be margins of victory similar to the current minor/major/masacre/draw breakdown in single player tournaments; or will it be solely win/loss/(draw?) points collectively added together? I know it is extremely rare, but there is a remote possibility of a tie on victory points as well.
Also, what is the schedule and time limit for Saturday? I would imagine an early start with 4 games? 2.5+/- hour time limits?
(I apologize in advance for not being very familiar with the ETC format this is based off of.)
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
I just want to kick in here and say that Shane runs an EXCELLENT event. I make a point to get to Chattanooga/Cleveland when I can.
I may have to at least attend the Siege this year. It'd be good to see Brother Sabote! 
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Aldonis is correct.
3 Mission Objectives:
1 - Two objectives for Capture and control
2 - Three objectives for Seize Ground (seperate from C&C)
3 - Kill Points
Achieving more of these than your opponent wins the game.
For ties or Draws - VP would be the tie breaker - so you always have a winner for each game.
So with 5 players per team - you will not have any ties for the Team vs. Team matchup.
IF VP is a draw then both players will receive a "Draw" result. VERY unlikely that this will happen though, but since It has been spoken/typed aloud, we will probably have 10 Draws first round! hehe.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it will be very clearly Win or Loss (or Draw if it comes down to it).
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Also I think the format is something like this:
Two teams are paired up.
The team Captains meet and dice off.
Losing Captain submits the first list from his team. Winning Captain counters with one of his lists - and then submits a list from his team for matchup two. Losing Captain Counters and submits - back and forth until all 5 pair ups are established.
I think there is also a mechanic around the winning captain being able to swap two lists around at the end - but not sure on that.
I personally am intrigued by this format - it brings an element of strategy in the matchups - as well as the player vs. player games.
Lists really need to be all comer lists to handle this....
Also will be some interesting strategy in the known matchups. Do you throw your strongest player against a Marc Parker - or do you sacrifice your weakest list/player to hope for a win elsewhere...
Regardless - I think that the opportunity to see some dandy matchups of highly talented players/teams exists if enough interest is generated.
33838
Post by: Shaletron
The SEIGE has been a blast the past two years. Shane and Mel have put on nothing but great events as long as I've known them so I am stoked for this year. .
2776
Post by: Reecius
Is there any comp or any soft scores?
The format sounds sweet! We have a team from NorCal with 3 definites, and 2 maybes with some backups. I will say we will most likely be there in force to represent the Bay!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NM, it says no soft scores no comp in the rules.
Awesome! This sounds like the kind of event we like around here. No comp, great, simple missions, and the pairing up mechanic between teams sounds like a fun game unto itself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and the sound is pretty awful. That is the number one thing people complain about on a web-page.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Shane! Kill the sound man....Kill the sound!!!!
18933
Post by: wileythenord
I'm getting super stoked about this one, I hope we have a lot of teams there. They are talking about making this an annual event, that would rock!
Since I'll be on one of the hometown teams I have to represent!
8830
Post by: Sergeant Horse
like Viking raiders, we hope to have some Teams from the ATL & Giga-Bites in particular going up. Have one team almost set and working on a second
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
Sgt, why is your flag showing Ireland? lol
18933
Post by: wileythenord
He is representing his home country instead of his residence country on dakka! Usurper!
I demand a sandwich with eggs on it now!
On a serious note, Sergeant Horse if you guys need any help to get a team, just tell your guys that it's a chance to beat on Wiley, I'm sure that will get them to come to this event!
8933
Post by: gardeth
wileythenord wrote:Sergeant Horse if you guys need any help to get a team, just tell your guys that it's a chance to beat on Wiley, I'm sure that will get them to come to this event!
Wiley beating is a long held, if not somewhat simple, tradition we hold dear here in Tennesse.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
I am truly sorry about the sound...there is a little music note hidden on the castle wall to the right. Click it to turn off the sound.
The site is one of those "cookie cutter" deals and to get the sound off, we have to re-do the entire thing...which we will do ASAP.
Also - LIKE US on FACEBOOK! "DiceheadSiege" to keep up with updates!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dicehead-Games-and-Comics/206884715186#!/pages/DiceheadSiege/140277052650858
26733
Post by: Wi1ikers
So whats the deadline to sign up? also wondering how many teams have signed up? We're in the process of forming a team from Nor Cal
19754
Post by: puma713
SlaveToDorkness wrote:I just want to kick in here and say that Shane runs an EXCELLENT event. I make a point to get to Chattanooga/Cleveland when I can.
This. My brother and I make the drive any time we can. And we hope to be attending the ATC - gotta touch base with some folks up in TN.
10377
Post by: Bikeninja
Any event that Dicehead touches is a good one. They do more than any other store I can think of to promote the hobby. Grand Adventures is the only other one that I can think of. They are great people who understand tourneys. You will not be disappointed.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
NEW WEBSITE - NO SOUND!
Same Address www.diceheadsiege.com
Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the answers to all your questions (deadlines, etc) goto www.diceheadsiege.com and find us on Facebook (DiceheadSSiege)
-Shane
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Any list of the teams that are pre-registered yet?
655
Post by: Kesher
SlaveToDorkness wrote:I just want to kick in here and say that Shane runs an EXCELLENT event. I make a point to get to Chattanooga/Cleveland when I can.
I may have to at least attend the Siege this year. It'd be good to see Brother Sabote!
I too agree Shane is a stand up guy. I played at the event last year, and it was very well run and had a nice venue to boot.
My coverage of the event is here. http://blog.spikeybits.com/search/label/The%20Seige
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I pinged Shane to let him know about the question of registered teams. Think he had a doubles tourney this weekend - which probably kept him hopping. Hopefully he can get on and do the full rundown. I'm just helping him to get the word out and not really part of the tournament other than bringing a team.
As far as I know there are the following people going/or expressing interest:
Blade and Bolter (two teams)
WileyTheNord (will most likely pull together a team of baby seals for us to club)
Wrecking Crew (1-2 teams)
Da boyz (maybe a team)
Team Toledo (or whatever they call themselves - Greg Sparks and company - sounded pretty interested and should be a top team)
Adeptus Windy City (maybe)
Atlanta area (has several clubs - so 1-4 teams are possible there)
Don't know if SpikeyBits will do a team or not
You guys on the West Coast from here (which would be cool)
Have sent invites our to a few other clubs (Battle for Salvation, BOLS, Nova guys, YTTH) but no response there.
Did I miss anyone?
17364
Post by: Afrikan Blonde
Warmongers, Cold Steel Mercs, BoLS, Da Boyz...
5435
Post by: extrenm(54)
What size limit for this tournament? If i do not register quickly, is there any danger of the event filling up?
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Aldonis wrote:Did I miss anyone?
We have a group from Birmingham pre-registered.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Afrikan Blonde wrote:Warmongers, Cold Steel Mercs, BoLS, Da Boyz...
Do these guys have teams and are they pre-registered? I had contacted 'Da Boyz and BOLS - but didn't know anyone in Warmongers and Cold Steel.....
Awesome if they are coming!
Automatically Appended Next Post: extrenm(54) wrote:What size limit for this tournament? If i do not register quickly, is there any danger of the event filling up?
5 man to a club team. Each team member has a 2K list. No duplicate codex's allowed on each team. So 1 Space marine, 1 space wolf, 1 BA, etc....
Not sure of the exact number of pre-regs. Sounds like Eldanar has and I know I have....Wrecking Crew is talking two teams. My local club is working to get a second as well.
5435
Post by: extrenm(54)
I know my group ha another team, possibly two on the way.
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
Need more n00bs.
3963
Post by: Fishboy
Okay I am not sure if I can make the DaBoyz thing happen. I have 3 maybe at best and me as definative. I need EVERYONE to get on the Daboyz site and "encourage" them to come!!
2776
Post by: Reecius
We are looking like a 90% yes for a NorCal California team.
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
Gotta make it happen. This is for all the really heavy hitters.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Awesome Reecius - gotta make sure the West Coast is represented.
2776
Post by: Reecius
What time does this event end on Sunday? Just asking for flight purposes.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Talked to Shane this afternoon. Progress for the tournament is good.
Currently 10 teams registered as definates.
I know of 4 others that are pretty much definates but haven't formally reserved yet.
Believe the cap for teams has been raised to a max of 40 - which is 200 players total. Pretty sweet if it gets there.
Twenty teams looks to be very attainable for sure.
Good turn out!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not sure on ending time - would assume late afternoon/early evening.
Chattanooga is about 2 hours from Nashville and 2 hours from Atlanta (maybe a little longer to ATL airport) on a Sunday based on my experience.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Ok, some updates:
I have re-worked the scoring system to be a little more forgiving than just Win/Loss but I believe that it will make the event even more competitive and fun!
The Mission and Scoring (So Far):
There will be 3 Primary Mission Goals in Every Mission:
Goal #1 - Two objectives for Capture and control
Goal #2 - Three objectives for Seize Ground (separate from C&C)
Goal #3 - Kill Points
Achieving more of these goals than your opponent wins the game.
There will be 6 games so each deployment (Spearhead, Dawn of War and Pitched Battle) will be used twice each throughout the tournament.
Seize The Initiative and Random Game Length will be used in every round.
SCORING:
Each Mission Goal will be Worth 10 Game Points if Achieved, 5 Game Points if Drawn, 0 Game Points if not achieved.
So, Possible Game Points EACH Round is 30 Maximum, 0 Minimum.
Example Possible Results :
A.) Player 1 Wins Kill Points, Player 2 Wins C&C, Both Players Draw Seize Ground - Total Game Points Player 1 (15), Player 2 (15)
B.) Player 1 Wins Kill Points and C&C, Both Players Draw Seize Ground - Total Game Points Player 1 (25), Player 2 (5)
C.) Player 1 Wins Kill Points, Neither Player Wins C&C or Seize Ground - Total Game Points Player 1 (10), Player 2 (0)
If Necessary at the end of the ATC Event, Overall Victory Points will be used as a tie-breaker.
OTHER STUFF
1 - I had stated that there would be no additional charge for the Friday Night Team Tournament in an earlier post. This is incorrect. It will be an Additional $20 per 2-man team for the Friday Night Doubles Event.
2 - The Special $200 Team Price for ATC pre-reg will end on March 20th. After that, the Price is $225 per team. There is a maximum number of 40 Teams. As of now, 12 teams have confirmed and with all the chatter on the forums 20 Teams is very realistic within the next few weeks.
3 - There are other events taking place at SIEGE including 40k doubles, and Rogue Trader and 'Ard Boyz Style Events for Both 40k and Fantasy, plus Warmachine, Flames of War, Malifaux and Dystopian Wars and TONS of other things like RPGS and Board Games and Console X-BOX 360 tournaments. The 40k and Fantasy Events should be updated on the site by this weekend so anyone not in the ATC event will have plenty of other chances to play in some great events!
4 - The Venue (The Chattanooga Choo Choo) IS a Hotel. $89 a night and you can basically roll out of bed and into the gaming hall (although clean gamers are preferred)
More Questions, concerns about the changes, etc? Post Away!
-Shane
5442
Post by: Eldanar
This may be a little obtuse, buts lets say a player tables their opponent, but fails to achieve any of the 3 victory conditions? Obviously VP's would kick in, assuming their opponent did not somehow win KP's. So under your scenario, would it be possible to table your opponent and still lose the game based on a deficit in kill points?
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
My initial response would be - Play the Mission - making the answer to your question, Yes. We had issues with some of our tournaments for awhile where players just played to kill everything to get full points for tableing their opponents and it became a not so fun event pretty quickly (might as well of just said "Most VP Wins")
I guess what I'm trying to say is if it becomes a "wipe out your opponents army for full points" scenario then it very quickly turns into a situation where there is no need for any other mission objectives.
But these are the kind of questions and what ifs that we need, so let me think on it.
Thanks for the input.
-Shane
5442
Post by: Eldanar
That is why I was asking, as some people might design an army solely with that intent.
It does raise some interesting scenarios playing with or against high KP armies, particularly if you have a low KP army. Concentrate on killing your opponents troops, and enough KP's to exceed your total, and you win, whether they wipe you out or not.
There is a pro and a con either way. And too, with group team play, some groups could try to show up with a ringer type of army specifically designed for this purpose.
The other argument is if tabling is allowed, then the high KP armies have at least a kernel of hope if all of their scoring units are destroyed and they have given up more KP's than their opponent has in their army.
I'm fairly neutral; but I would like to know ahead of time.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I'd be ok with whatever on this one.
Most times though - if you table or get tabled - you win full points and the other guy gets nothing. If you get totalled wiped - one side of me says you kinda deserve zero points....but what if you are tabled and the other guy has little to nothing left as well.....sigh....
At the high end play level I hope we have at this thing - you'll have people that are very capable of tabling others. So it's a good thing to consider.
21
Post by: blood angel
Not all missions have to have the 'Wipeout' Rule. For variety maybe include it in a couple of rounds.
I 'prefer' wipeout to be in effect but it does not effect my enjoyment of the event if it isn't.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
In most instances, if you table someone, you will more than likely win VP's. However, VP's are only a tie breaker if the first three mission objectives are not obtained. The only problem is KP's, because you can theoretically win KP's but still get wiped out.
5580
Post by: Eidolon
Ive never liked the full points for tabling your opponent thing. I played a game about a year ago with my nids against orks. I was tabled, ork player had 1 deff kopta with a wound on it left, def a very close and bloody game. Should he get full points for that?
9974
Post by: sabote
Eidolon wrote:Ive never liked the full points for tabling your opponent thing. I played a game about a year ago with my nids against orks. I was tabled, ork player had 1 deff kopta with a wound on it left, def a very close and bloody game. Should he get full points for that?
I dont mind it. At the end of the day is does not happen that often. I am not saying I have not seen players pull it off multiple times but it is still rare.
It is a high risk, high reward. In order to pull it off you have to commit fully to the attack. Usually if your opponent recognizes your attempt to do this option and it was going going to be a Scissors meets paper game. Many times there are things to do that mitigate the guy from getting the complete wipe out and thus denying the objective he was trying to achieve.
Another thing to think about is the team captains may be able to use this as an option in their tactical plan for setting up their initial match ups which adds an interesting equation to that process.
I recently played in a Team championship in France that allowed the wipe out rule. I did not see to many wipe outs occur.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
How about this? ...
lf you table your opponent, the minimum points you can receive is 15 points. So even if you table your opponent but manage to still lose Kill points, you still get more points than your opponent. Making the round : you (15) Opponent (10).
-Shane
5442
Post by: Eldanar
I thought you were just going straight win/loss?
How are you determining what is a minor win? What is a major win? And what is a massacre?
If we are using the minor/major/massacre breakdown, then that is an entirely different animal, and I would suggest tabling someone should garner massacre points. As sabote said, it is a high risk, high reward proposition
2776
Post by: Reecius
W/L/D or W/L is the best format for a tournament, IMO. That way you don't have to wipe your opponent out to get max points and it opens the field to lots of different types of armies, not just those capable of crushing victories.
19754
Post by: puma713
THE SIEGE wrote:How about this? ...
lf you table your opponent, the minimum points you can receive is 15 points. So even if you table your opponent but manage to still lose Kill points, you still get more points than your opponent. Making the round : you (15) Opponent (10).
-Shane
Shane, I think maybe you should shoot a pm to some of the tournament organizers here on Dakka and get some advice that way. By posting a "what do you think?" in a public thread, you're going to get every tournament-goers opinion on how it should be run, how it should be scored and what they like best.
Rule #1 - You can't please everyone.
17977
Post by: Jay_Daboyz
puma713 wrote:THE SIEGE wrote:How about this? ...
lf you table your opponent, the minimum points you can receive is 15 points. So even if you table your opponent but manage to still lose Kill points, you still get more points than your opponent. Making the round : you (15) Opponent (10).
-Shane
Shane, I think maybe you should shoot a pm to some of the tournament organizers here on Dakka and get some advice that way. By posting a "what do you think?" in a public thread, you're going to get every tournament-goers opinion on how it should be run, how it should be scored and what they like best.
Rule #1 - You can't please everyone.
Since you are not going to please everyone with a decision you make you can always put it to a captain’s vote. This is how the ETC does it. The captains of each team vote on how many points, missions etc. at each year’s events. This is so each team will have somewhat of a say in how they would like to play certain rules/conflicts.
Of course I would only allow paid team (captains) doing the voting.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
I doubt most people really care how he scores the tournament. However, there is a certain amount of gamesmanship that goes into selecting army compositions depending on how the games will be scored.
If it is a straight win/loss, then you take an army that you think can eke out a win, and you play for a minimal win, because that is all you need. If it is a tiered victory system, with minor/major/massacre, then you take an army that you think can maximize points.
Similarly, if tabling your opponent is/is not going to garner maximum points, then players need to know ahead of time in order to optimize their army designs, and alter their gameplay.
This is even more important in a team environment, where you basically have a game within a game concerning the match ups.
Me thinks that certain individuals have been making "suggestions" outside of the public forum arena. This is not a problem; however, I would like a firm set of rules in place so that I can start to concentrate on my army design. With three months away, that is not really an issue yet...
With three seperate mission objectives, at first glance, it seems pretty obvious how to break out a tiered victory approach. However, winning 1-0, 1-0 then +1 seems a little too easy to achieve for a massacre.
I am playing in a tournament in two weeks based off of the ATC style missions, and we broke out the tiered scoring system as follows:
Draw - win only 1-0, or actually tie 0-0 or 1-1
Minor Win - win at least 2 of the 3 points in the scoring system (could be 2-1 or 2-0)
Major Win - win each of the 3 ways to score, regardless of margin of victory (here you could win 1-0, 1-0 and +1), but you have to go 3-0 in the scoring system
Massacre - hold all 5 objectives and win KP's
Makes it difficult to get a massacre, but that is the way it should be. Nor am I suggesting this is the best way to do it. This was just a quick and easy approach for a 3 round local tournament.
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
You should give any points to a player that is tabled. Not looking good.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
So - this seems to be the crux of the questions:
Overall Team vs. Team scoring:
option #1 - straight won - loss at the end
Pro's - considered more "competitive"
Con's - no method to seed teams - which unbalances the competitiveness.
Option #2 - Score points for each of the three victory conditions for each game played in each team. So 10 points for capture/control, 10 points for Seize ground, 10 points for Kill Points - in the case of draws - give 5 points to each team. At the end of the team vs. Team - the team captains total up the points total for all 5 games.
Pro's - makes every condition of every game important. Smooths and balances the results of a close, hard fought game. Increase's the competitive aspect - as you can lose/draw a game and not be knocked out.
Con's - more record keeping.
Other questions:
Tabling - does a tabling automatically result in a win (max points) or do you still look at the victory conditions even if a tabling occurs. See pro's/con's here both ways - personally don't care either way - just need to know in advance. If somebody wipes their opponent off the table with minimal losses - its' a no brainer. If you wipe them out but have little to nothing left yourself - that's where the questions come in. Just decide one way or the other - whichever Shane thinks best.
Tie Breaker - with either way to score the head to head matches - need to have clearly defined tie breakers at the end of the tourney as well as how to handle ties in the individual games
Overall - up to Shane - just trying to help consolidate the questions (hopefully).
3963
Post by: Fishboy
One thing to remember. This is the first year for this so there will be some learning room. My recomendation is to let Shane run his event and lets see how it shakes out. He does have some experience at this and is a very capable TO. Maybe ETC will refer back to his event and say "this is how they do it" hehe. Shane is great about listening to feedback after events and my hope is to see this event grow to a massive number.
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
I hate it when the TO polls the audience.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
I don't know if it is polling the audience so much as people suggesting that there are scoring discrepancies with almost any way you choose to run a tournament.
Some times the best thing to do is to come at this from the reverse angle. Determine the desirable outcome(s), and then force eveything else to adhere to those end results, and discard ideas that don't.
2776
Post by: Reecius
Straight W/L makes the game much simpler, which means it will run smoother. The more variables you introduce the more room there is for complications.
5 players. The team that wins more games wins the round. To win a game, you score more objectives. In the case of a tie on objectives, you go to VPs for tie breakers.
Simple, easy and straightforward. That definitely gets my vote (if my vote means anything! haha)
5580
Post by: Eidolon
I prefer w/l to battle points, gives armies like tau that can win but rarely massacre a chance. And I agree with everything reecius has said.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
W/L is a different play style, and IMO, is somehwat more boring. You end up with more conservative play, more slowhammer, and a higher likelihood of teams having tied scores at the end.
Tiered scoring means more competitive play. People cannot be content to barely eke out a minor win, as it is barely more than a draw or a minor loss. It forces people to actually play aggressively in seeking points, rather than having one or two good turns and then playing "not to lose."
If you do go with a tiered points system, this mission is almost tailor made for a 4 tiered system (13/15/17/20 or however the points break out), rather than the normal 3 tiered system (13/17/20).
After mulling it over for a while I would probably rather see some sort of a tiered system in place.
Although to be fair, I am actually more concerned about the amount of time we are given to play each of the games more so than what the ultimate scoring system will be. If we do not have at least 2 1/2 hours per round, I would almost rather not play.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Looks like they did update the scoring system:
SCORING:
Each Mission Goal will be Worth 10 Game Points if Achieved, 5 Game Points if Drawn, 0 Game Points if not achieved.
So, Possible Game Points EACH Round is 30 Maximum, 0 Minimum.
Example Possible Results :
A.) Player 1 Wins Kill Points, Player 2 Wins C&C, Both Players Draw Seize Ground - Total Game Points Player 1 (15), Player 2 (15)
B.) Player 1 Wins Kill Points and C&C, Both Players Draw Seize Ground - Total Game Points Player 1 (25), Player 2 (5)
C.) Player 1 Wins Kill Points, Neither Player Wins C&C or Seize Ground - Total Game Points Player 1 (10), Player 2 (0)
I like it. Very simple and easy to follow. Allows for high risk/high reward game play.
I would still like to know the time allotment for the rounds though...
5321
Post by: Aldonis
And since the number of teams is going to max at 40 - you could go through all the rounds and have undefeated teams with a pure won/loss.
I agree that a point based system based on each of the mission objectives per game - and w/l/d will bring a wider range of points - while still maintaining the competitive aspect of the game as well.
Will still have to figure out some kind of tie breaker system just in case though - because if he doesn't have it - it's sure to happen!
Think he's got a schedule out there someplace - with four games sat and 2 on Sunday - but not the detail schedule for games - they would have to be 2.5 hours at minimum I would think - plus the time between games is going to be more than a regular tourney - with the team captains doing the matchups and all.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Ok.
I think Ive got the input I need here on the points system.
Will make a final decision soon.
Game time limit is 2.5 hours with an additional 30 mins for captains to pair off players. (3 hours total)
Also - I am getting A TON of questions about the event that are plainly stated on the website. If someone posts a question here that I dont have on the site, I get it answered and on the site within 24 hours.
In the Meantime, the Website has been updated with all of the other Games Workshop Events at:
http://www.diceheadsiege.com/15801.html
There are 2-man team event Friday Night and WHFB and 40k singles Events on Fri Sat and Sunday.
All events should be over by 5:00 and everyone should be ready to leave by 6:00, 7:00 at the VERY latest.
-Shane
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
Straight W/L is great, no need to have alot of things to record. People should be playing for the win not the draw, yet you shouldn't be forced to massacre to do well. That is why using Straight W/L is so great.
Someone might say well we might need a tiebreaker at the end. There is a simple one. It's called strength of schedule. You just look at the scores of the teams they played.
Ex: At the end of 5 rounds..
Team A is 4-1, played 5 teams who scored 2,1,2,4,1
Team B is 4-1, played 5 teams who scored 2,1,2,4,2
Team B wins the event since it's SoS is 11 and Team A's SoS is 10. Though it is a narrow margin that is when a tiebreaker is needed.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Any updates on the confirmed pre-registered teams?
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
Im really glad they aren't using strength of schedule. I think pure W/L would be a lot more competitive. There are always some people who will agree to a draw if they don't think they can win.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Windy City Kamakazi Piolets from Chicago
WRECKING CREW EAST
Borderlands Gaming
Fixed Dice
Team Ragnarok
Blade N Bolters
Team Taledo
Paul Murphy and a Yet Unnamed Team
Jeff O'Neal and a Yet Unnamed Team (Alabama)
+2 other local teams Yet unnamed
I have 5 other teams that have yet to confirm but are all 90% definite. Puttiing us at around 16 teams right now.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I take everyone's input seriously and I do realize that I can't please everyone but I do find it extremely important to know what the majority wants in an event - especially a first year event like this.
The Decision on Scoring has been made. Thanks for all your input!
I will post it up within the week.
8950
Post by: SilentBob367
THE SIEGE wrote:Team Taledo
I would assume this would be a mistype on Team Toledo. After all we can't make that mistake, they are the home to the "Turn 2 Table."
21
Post by: blood angel
Paul's team is subtitled: The Wrecking BOLS
4395
Post by: Deadshane1
The Wrecking Crew East's attorneys, in true GW fashion, will be contacting you due to infringement on our IP.
17364
Post by: Afrikan Blonde
I don't get if. More WC shenanigans?
5321
Post by: Aldonis
LOL - yeah those darned WC guys...always being such rounders and pulling their shenanigans....
Those Scallywags!
5442
Post by: Eldanar
A quick question. On the ATC page it lists the mission rules as follows:
Mission Set-Up:
Players roll off to place Seize Ground Objectives (3 Objectives will be used)
Players roll off to pick deployment zone (and thus determining who gets first turn)
Players roll off to place Capture and Control Objectives
Deployment
Seize The Initiative Roll
Play!
This may be a little counter intuitive, but is there a requirement that the Capture and Control objectives be placed at least 12" away from the Seize Ground objectives? Or is it possible to have one objective from each set sitting right next to each other?
5580
Post by: Eidolon
Are you allowed to drink while playing, I know it largely depends on the venue so figured I would ask.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Ok - SOME ANSWERS:
DRINKING:
Drinking is not allowed inside the hall due to increased insurance expenses and other hotel/staff logistics.
There are several bars and restaurants within walking distance and you can go there before, after or in-between rounds if you desire.
----------------------------------------------
The ATC page will be updated over the weekdend with this info, but here are some quick answers:
ELDANAR - All objectives will be at least 12" away from each other. (Exact wording will posted on the site)
Tabled/Wiped Out Opponents:
------------------------------------------------
If the game ends with one player completely "wiped off" the table (one player losing their entire army) - The following rules will apply:
The winning player will automatically receive an additional 5 Game Points. This additional 5 Game Points Cannot take their total Game Points above 30.
Example Scoring in the case of a "wipe"
A.) Player 1 Completely wipes out their opponent Winning both Seize Ground and C&C but Player 2 still manages to win Kill Points - Total Game Points : Player 1 (25) Player 2 (10)
B.) Player 1 Completely wipes out their opponent Winning Kill Points and neither player wins Seize Ground or C&C - Total Game Points : Player 1 (15) Player 2 (0)
C.) Player 1 Completely wipes out their opponent Winning All 3 Game Objectives - Total Game Points : Player 1 (30) Player 2 (0)
*D.) Because someone is going to do the math/what if? scenario and ask! - IF Player 1 has 1 model left at the end of the game, not controlling any objectives and Player 2 won Kill Points - In this case, the following exception will be made and the scoring will be as follows (again, in this case ONLY) - Total Game Points : Player 1 (15) Player 2 (10)
IF this case occurs it overrules the "Achieving more of these goals than your opponent wins the game." stated above.
We believe that this system still encourages players to play the mission and helps to maintain a form of Minor Victory/Major Victory game result that reflects a very close game between 2 deserving players.
Automatically Appended Next Post: ALSO:
Pre-registration cut off is Saturday May 14th 2011
Pre-Pay for your ATC registration BEFORE MARCH 14th and receive $5 off each team members registration cost! (saving you $25 a team!)
email shane@dicehead.com with " ATC Pre-Registration" in the subject line for details.
ARMY LISTS ARE DUE ON or BEFORE Saturday May 14th!
5580
Post by: Eidolon
Loving that massacre system.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
So just to clarify:
1. No alcohol in the gaming hall. (As an aside for people not from Chattanooga, there are some pretty good local brewhouses located there.)
2. All objectives must be placed 12" from each other, regardless of whether they are from the Capture and Control or Seize Ground sets.
3. Tabling your opponent will garner 5 bonus points, not to exceed the maximum game cap of 30 points.
4. Additionally, there is a potential 10 point penalty for the tabled player: if a game ends with one player tabling their opponent, AND only having one model left, AND not holding any objectives, AND their opponent won KP's, the player with one model gets 15 points, and the player that was tabled gets 10 (rather than the 20 they would otherwise get for winning KP's and tying on the 2 objective missions).
I like it.
My only question is, what if under the potential penalty, the player who tabled their opponent but lost KP's has more than 1 model left, but nothing to claim objectives with or too far away from any? Does this penalty only apply in situations where the "tabler" has an actual single model, or were you using the single model example merely as a metaphorical analogy?
Thanks for the update Shane.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
"My only question is, what if under the potential penalty, the player who tabled their opponent but lost KP's has more than 1 model left, but nothing to claim objectives with or too far away from any? Does this penalty only apply in situations where the "tabler" has an actual single model, or were you using the single model example merely as a metaphorical analogy? "
The 1 model example is just for examples sake.
The situation could be more than 1 model left.
-Shane
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
I wear long sleeve tee shirts and soak the sleeves in vodka overnite for non drinking venues.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I think the ETC has all teams post their army lists ahead of time for review.
Are you planning to do that? If so - what do you do to handle last minute teams?
Thanks!
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
Hello!
My wife linked me to the Con information - I did a bit of reading and see that there are two separate 40k events on Saturday and Sunday for individuals.
Is there a plan ni the future to host a GT, or is intended to remain a primarily team/club based event?
18933
Post by: wileythenord
There used to be a 2 day GT in this area, Exterminatus. I would say that Shane would be up for hosting a GT in the future, but assuming the ATC takes off as a big event (and it looks like it already is shaping up to be big) I doubt he would cancel the ATC to make it a GT unless folks lost interest in the ATC format.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Dash - there is actually a crap ton to do at this - it's full blown convention.
Believe this is right but there is a 40K doubles tourney on Fri night, 40K RTT on Saturday, then the ATC on Sat/Sun.
Along with that you got some Fantasy stuff, clicks, role playing, warmachine, FOW, etc, etc.
Plus hopefully a lot of cute goth girls playing dress up!
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
wileythenord wrote:There used to be a 2 day GT in this area, Exterminatus. I would say that Shane would be up for hosting a GT in the future, but assuming the ATC takes off as a big event (and it looks like it already is shaping up to be big) I doubt he would cancel the ATC to make it a GT unless folks lost interest in the ATC format.
I was definitely meaning in conjunction with, not in replacement of.
IE, perhaps a concurrent ATC and GT.
Aldonis, I looked at the events taking place at the same time - I saw that there was a 3 round RTT on Saturday, and a 3 round Gladiator on Sunday.
Its a 9 hour drive, and I'm not comfortable traveling that far for an RTT. Either it would have only a few people (since the main event is something else) and I'd feel dumb for having traveled that far to get to meet and compete against so few people, or it would have a lot of people, and I'd feel dumb for playing in an event without enough rounds and criteria to do any kind of fair assessment of who the winner should be.
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Well my suggestion is to get a team together and come play in the ATC. Its gonna be great times. And you will get to see how a real Dark Eldar army plays 
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
wileythenord wrote:And you will get to see how a real Dark Eldar army plays
*laughing* And how is that good sir?
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Actually you copied my army pretty closely with the new codex, so I can't talk trash about your list. But I'd love to see you come compete.
Did you move? I thought you lived in NC, its not 9 hrs from NC to Chattanooga is it?
11151
Post by: Dashofpepper
wileythenord wrote:Actually you copied my army pretty closely with the new codex, so I can't talk trash about your list. But I'd love to see you come compete.
Did you move? I thought you lived in NC, its not 9 hrs from NC to Chattanooga is it?
Its nine hours from nowhere Louisiana to Chattanooga though.
And....my list was created pretty much immediately after the codex came out - after I started using it, I started advocating similar type lists on the internet. If someone's list is like mine, either they were influenced towards it, or arrived at the same conclusions I have.
1986
Post by: thehod
Dashofpepper wrote:wileythenord wrote:Actually you copied my army pretty closely with the new codex, so I can't talk trash about your list. But I'd love to see you come compete.
Did you move? I thought you lived in NC, its not 9 hrs from NC to Chattanooga is it?
Its nine hours from nowhere Louisiana to Chattanooga though.
And....my list was created pretty much immediately after the codex came out - after I started using it, I started advocating similar type lists on the internet. If someone's list is like mine, either they were influenced towards it, or arrived at the same conclusions I have.
Great minds think alike. I am still planning to build 5K of DE to have all sorts of options and the possibility of edition changes. That and I am also waiting on the official Venom release. But most of the lists I have seen that are successful have similar elements but there are changes mostly due to personal preferences and whatnot.
3963
Post by: Fishboy
Dash I think you should form a team, show up, and table him just for claiming you stole his list heheh.
As for the Exterminatus GT it is dead and gone. Shane has most of my terrain outside of what was...kept for lack of a more slanderous term....so if anyone had the potential to do a GT it would be him. Although I doubt he will pull people from the ATC for a GT so it would doubtfully be at this same venue.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Yeah Dash - I'll buy you a beer for tabling Wiley- sure you can get a bunch of others.
You should get you a team - The Hod-Father who posted above is one cool cat - he has Charlie Sheen Tiger DNA.
All he knows is...."Winning".....
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
The Maul in the Mall will be on the Circuit this year.
July
37114
Post by: Black Fiend
thehod wrote:Dashofpepper wrote:wileythenord wrote:Great minds think alike.
Same can be said of lesser minds.
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Nope Dash, I saw you sneak into my window one night and steal my sacred list that was inscribed into golden tablets! Done act like it didn't happen!
Aldonis is jealous because last time he faced my Dark Eldar, the Dark Kin ate his flower eating pansy eldar for lunch!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I seem to remember a close game that you won - but I guess to some that's "eating their lunch".....
And my eldar don't eat their flowers...they grow them and string them together in an artistic fashion....
Overall we are tied in tournament play - although I still owe you for stealing my Dark Angel easy win from Adepticon and replacing it with a hard core leafblower opponent. That was definately hard core low balling there Wiley!
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Ha! Well maybe we can get a make up game at the ATC, just make sure you match whatever pathetic army you bring up against the awesome Dark Eldar army in my team!
Maybe Necronian and Sabote can have a classic knockdown drag out too!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I'll bring either my Necron's or Tau.....either should be adequate to deal with your S&M loving chicks.....
21
Post by: blood angel
Shane,
Will the venue be open after the tournament rounds are done for the day on Saturday?
There is some trash talking going down on another forum and we are thinking of arranging a couple of grudge matches.
Thanks!
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
The venue is open until 4:00 a.m. or possibly all night if the demand is great enough once everyone is there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I started a Thread for Maul In the Mall 2011 Circuit Event.
21
Post by: blood angel
Awesome.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Sounds like the wrecking crew is going to have quite the party!
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
16 Teams Now - Looks like 20 will be an easy goal!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, here's another food for thought that I am thinking about doing at the ATC part of SIEGE.
Each player will receive a GW dice brick as part of their entry fee that MUST be used in every ATC game. Additional bricks will be available for purchase if desired.
In my opinion, this takes any chances of "cooked" dice problems completely out of the equation. Something I have had to deal with in the past and most certainly do not want to deal with again, especially at this level of play.
thoughts?
9974
Post by: sabote
THE SIEGE wrote:16 Teams Now - Looks like 20 will be an easy goal!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, here's another food for thought that I am thinking about doing at the ATC part of SIEGE.
Each player will receive a GW dice brick as part of their entry fee that MUST be used in every ATC game. Additional bricks will be available for purchase if desired.
In my opinion, this takes any chances of "cooked" dice problems completely out of the equation. Something I have had to deal with in the past and most certainly do not want to deal with again, especially at this level of play.
thoughts?
I am less worried in a team event of people having "cooked" dice than in an individual event. Not that it is ever a concern of mine. Even though I played that guy with "cooked" dice and beat the snot out of him even with those dice. But that was the first person in probably 60 plus tournaments I have ever run across that did something like that. But in a team event with everyone playing next to each other it would more than likely mean that most of the team is involved in some kind of cheating which I would find even more unlikely to happen.
But if you want to give us dice at your cost to play that is your choice. But having to buy a second set just so you can roll different dice for other skills ie BS, saves..... which many people like to do would seem a bit annoying at least to me. If every tournament decided to do this than I would start getting tired of all the dice I was accumulating.
1986
Post by: thehod
Beware of Al. He has Aldonis DNA in him.
19754
Post by: puma713
THE SIEGE wrote:
thoughts?
Any of the dice you've ever given me have never rolled well. I'm doomed at this tournament.
17364
Post by: Afrikan Blonde
I think handing out the dice could be okay. It's been suggested enough in the past.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
THE SIEGE wrote:16 Teams Now - Looks like 20 will be an easy goal!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, here's another food for thought that I am thinking about doing at the ATC part of SIEGE.
Each player will receive a GW dice brick as part of their entry fee that MUST be used in every ATC game. Additional bricks will be available for purchase if desired.
In my opinion, this takes any chances of "cooked" dice problems completely out of the equation. Something I have had to deal with in the past and most certainly do not want to deal with again, especially at this level of play.
thoughts?
I'll miss my collection of tried and true mismatched dice, but I completely understand. While I have never knowingly been on the receiving end of dice shenanigans, I have heard stories of such from people I trust, about players being busted for it...
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Whatever dice you need me to roll is fine with me.....
My Aldonis Tiger Warlock DNA means only one thing....
Winning!
To quote the Sheen Dream:
“I don’t know, winning, anyone? Rhymes with winning? Anyone? Yeah, that would be us.”
Automatically Appended Next Post:
This tournament will be lessened without the presence of the Hod-father of Soul as inspiration!
He too has the Tiger Warlock DNA gene.....
21
Post by: blood angel
THE SIEGE wrote:16 Teams Now - Looks like 20 will be an easy goal!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, here's another food for thought that I am thinking about doing at the ATC part of SIEGE.
Each player will receive a GW dice brick as part of their entry fee that MUST be used in every ATC game. Additional bricks will be available for purchase if desired.
In my opinion, this takes any chances of "cooked" dice problems completely out of the equation. Something I have had to deal with in the past and most certainly do not want to deal with again, especially at this level of play.
thoughts?
I don't think it's nessecary. I believe that one dude with the funny dice was an extreme exception to the rule. 99% of the people you're going to get at this thing are there to really try and compete at the top of the food chain - not cheat.
Plus.. a lot of people have tournament mojo.. how am I supposed to sacrifice the holy cheeseburger to jobu over my pile of kaplow dice the night before?!
18933
Post by: wileythenord
I am against this, all it does is add cost. I'd rather be able to use my purple dice for my purple headed yogurt slinging dark eldar anyway.
19754
Post by: puma713
wileythenord wrote:I am against this, all it does is add cost. I'd rather be able to use my purple dice for my purple headed yogurt slinging dark eldar anyway.
I think you're the one he's worried about Wiley.
18933
Post by: wileythenord
I only use Fixed Dice vs you
9974
Post by: sabote
wileythenord wrote:I am against this, all it does is add cost. I'd rather be able to use my purple dice for my purple headed yogurt slinging dark eldar anyway.
I was actually guessing the home crowd was pushing for this because of that one guy. So was surprised to see post this. I agree with you on cost. Why have the extra cost even if you do get a discount on the dice and can probably write off the ones used and resell them you sill lose out on cost overall. Plus I agree with Blood Angel statements.
If you worried about internet drama and trying to curtail it than that is probably futile because people will have their opinions, right or wrong. Things than can help though.
1. Quality missions.
2. Rule Judges that are readily available and know their stuff. Because it looks like there will be a fair amount of Vetern players, so having rule judges that are weak will reflect on the tournament.
a. try to answer/ some of the standard rule arguments prior to the start of the tournament
3. Review the army lists, make sure teams have accurate lists. Having them turned in ahead of time and looked at would help with any point costs that are added wrong. But this may be asking alot for some.
4. Staff easy to identify and helping run the tourney on time.
If you can accomplish at least these four you are probably going to come out looking pretty good without needing dice for each player.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
How much does a block of dice cost? He is only charging $40-50 for the tournament, so I don't see cost as being a prohibition. That is way less than what I have paid to go to for some GW-run events. After travel, a hotel for 2 nights, etc., the added cost of a block of dice is next to nothing.
I kind of actually like it, as it "levels the playing field somewhat" (if of course you buy into the whole "certain types of dice roll better than others" argument enough to think it makes a discernable difference on every roll conspiracy theory...).
9974
Post by: sabote
Eldanar wrote:How much does a block of dice cost? He is only charging $40-50 for the tournament, so I don't see cost as being a prohibition. That is way less than what I have paid to go to for some GW-run events. After travel, a hotel for 2 nights, etc., the added cost of a block of dice is next to nothing.
I kind of actually like it, as it "levels the playing field somewhat" (if of course you buy into the whole "certain types of dice roll better than others" argument enough to think it makes a discernable difference on every roll conspiracy theory...).
It adds to the cost of the tournament for the TO because the first set is provided. Think we all know the cost of dice so he eats the first set and you would buy the second if you want one. I dont know to many stores that are swimming in money so unless he planned this from the beginning in the registration fee( which since we are seeing this now after the fee has been posted...) he eats the cost. But hey thats his business decision.
Dont see it leveling the playing field any because I have never bought into the size matters. I have beat people with just about every size dice you play in this game.
But hey whatever I just find this leaning towards the paranoia you see on the internet. If I have play with their dice. It would be annoying but not a show stopper and if I end up with more dice I will probably just toss it because I have enough already.
19754
Post by: puma713
You could also implement a policy allowing the gamer across from you to use your dice.
Some tournaments I have been to have had a very strict policy of: If your opponent asks to use your dice, let them. If they want to use a specific one, let them.
If it's your lucky Terminator die that never rolls below a 4, then you won't mind that I use that die for my reserves, right?
9974
Post by: sabote
puma713 wrote:You could also implement a policy allowing the gamer across from you to use your dice.
Some tournaments I have been to have had a very strict policy of: If your opponent asks to use your dice, let them. If they want to use a specific one, let them.
If it's your lucky Terminator die that never rolls below a 4, then you won't mind that I use that die for my reserves, right?
Actually I would dislike this more. I feel like my dice are betraying me lol. I would rather be handed a cube.
I once played in a tournament where a guy forgot his dice. He had to use mine and they always rolled well for him and horrible for me. I lost the game and that was the last I saw of those dice!!
Though special dice made for the tournament would at least be nice if we go that way. I could at least sort of have a memento, instead of another plain set of dice.
19754
Post by: puma713
sabote wrote:puma713 wrote:You could also implement a policy allowing the gamer across from you to use your dice.
Some tournaments I have been to have had a very strict policy of: If your opponent asks to use your dice, let them. If they want to use a specific one, let them.
If it's your lucky Terminator die that never rolls below a 4, then you won't mind that I use that die for my reserves, right?
Actually I would dislike this more. I feel like my dice are betraying me lol. I would rather be handed a cube.
Oh, I'm with you. I'm very supersititious. But, it might save Shane a buck or two and it helps to eliminate any shady business.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I really think that at a tournament like this - which looks like it's going to have a lot of the truly good players in the game attending - we should all be of high character and sportsmanship. Cheating with dice would be bringing disrespect to the event and to the hobby.
At least for my team - and I hope other team captains can pledge this as well - nothing but top shelf game play.
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Sabote wrote:I was actually guessing the home crowd was pushing for this because of that one guy.
That guy is dead to this area, we all pretty much quit talking to him after that incident.
Not that it matters, he has never won a game in his life that I know of. And unless there is some super secret local team I don't know about, he won't be playing anyway.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
If it was just one incident, and everyone knew the player involved, then the soultion is simple. But I have a feeling there might be more to it than that.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Again, the dice thing is just a suggestion for discussion not a solid decision yet. Unfortunately, it happens and I have heard more and more occurrences of TO's having players challenge other players dice in many areas. This is not just because of a localized situation. Just looking for some reactions from you guys. Thanks for the input.
On a Completely different topic, a Team Captain meeting for ATC at Adepticon has been suggested. I spoke with Greg earlier today and he suggested possibly for a Sunday night time after everything is done. We will be set up at Adepticon and I'm thinking that maybe we can just have a general handout/come by the booth during the weekend and discuss type thing as an alternative.
TEAM CAPTAINS: What would work best for you?
21
Post by: blood angel
I would be down for that.. Not sure about Sunday night though as some people will already be heading home.
Thursday or Friday night would work best for me.
18244
Post by: Omega_Warlord
As for my team, I can't make as I'm not going to adepticon, :sad: but I'll see if some of my team is and have one act in my behalf.
18933
Post by: wileythenord
I'm not going to Adepticon, but since i talk to you on a weekly basis, should be easy to communicate.
1006
Post by: stormboy97
WC EAST will have a rep at adepticon that can link up if he isnt in a fetal position crying about coming in the bottom 16 in the championship.
I like the idea of being abile to challenge and use your opponents dice.
Are we going to have all the army lists posted up ahead of time or do we do it in the thirty minutes between matchs?
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Just a suggestion, how about simply requiring everyone to use either smaller "GW-style" dice, or "squared-off-corner" casino-style dice (if they prefer larger dice)?
The problem that I have seen with "cooked" dice is that larger dice with rounded corners, or more gamer-oriented dice (usually with skulls or some other sort of motif on the facing), are the ones that typically have more "issues." And they may not be loaded per se, but with typically rounded edges as well extra carving grooves on the "6" facing, the 6 weighs less thereby allowing it to face up slightly more often. It also seems to be more prevalent when the players are only rolling 1-2 dice rather than a handful (with averages and an inability to fully roll retarding the weight advantages allowed by the extra grooving cut into the "6" facings).
Really, the gamer-dice with the carved motifs are the main culprit, as opposed to just larger dice with rounded corners...but there is a reason that gaming commissions make casinos use squared corner dice...
9974
Post by: sabote
Eldanar wrote:Just a suggestion, how about simply requiring everyone to use either smaller "GW-style" dice, or "squared-off-corner" casino-style dice (if they prefer larger dice)?
The problem that I have seen with "cooked" dice is that larger dice with rounded corners, or more gamer-oriented dice (usually with skulls or some other sort of motif on the facing), are the ones that typically have more "issues." And they may not be loaded per se, but with typically rounded edges as well extra carving grooves on the "6" facing, the 6 weighs less thereby allowing it to face up slightly more often. It also seems to be more prevalent when the players are only rolling 1-2 dice rather than a handful (with averages and an inability to fully roll retarding the weight advantages allowed by the extra grooving cut into the "6" facings).
Really, the gamer-dice with the carved motifs are the main culprit, as opposed to just larger dice with rounded corners...but there is a reason that gaming commissions make casinos use squared corner dice...
Well you got half the reason right why casinos require the square dice. The other half however is you must be able to throw it the table length and actually hit the far wall. The reason is you could still manipulate the dice unless they hit the wall and anything else is not a legal toss. Though I did see a guy that could stack the dice and toss them and pretty much call his roll. I actually made 6k on the guy throwing up to that point and previously had been losing so I should not complain . But that is rare.
What is GW style dice? Is that the same as the chessex cube or the ones that come with the scatter dice?
Though I was hoping if it went this way we could at least get some kind of special ATC dice out of this.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
My interpretation of GW-style dice are the little dice that typically come with the starter box sets; or something equivalent that does not have any carved motifs, etc., that might cause a discrepancy in their weight.
I think some specific ATC-designed dice would also be a good idea; assuming Shane could get an order in with a design in time for the tournament. It never hurts to have everyone on a level playing field...
Its kind of sad...I've been in this hobby for almost 20 years, and it has only been in the last 2-3 years that "dice" have become somewhat of an issue. But again, I attribute it to the carved motif design gamer dice. Yes, they look good, etc., and most people probably don't even stop to consider the effects of their weight, rounded corners, and extra carvings in place of the 6's (although it used to be the "1's" that had the carvings on them...but no one seems to use that style any more... ); but intended or not, they can have an unhealthy impact on a game.
1006
Post by: stormboy97
but dosnt the one with the 6 holes have more removed already?
What's to stop someone from having loaded dice made up to resemble the cubes that you can buy?
If you think someone is rolling hot use there dice, please use mine, they roll the crucial 1's to wound and 11 and 12's for break checks. Hell all i ask for is average every now and then.
38816
Post by: JBW
I'd have to agree with stormboy. I like my skull dice, and I'd be more than glad to let you use my dice. The issue I would have is if someone had separate piles of dice that rolled specifically. If that's the case I'd expect that person to let me roll their <4 rolling dice for my reserves.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Almost the dead giveaway is when people use different types of dice for different types of rolls; although I think almost anyone would spot that particular chestnut.
I like my dice too. However, the whole point of Shane's potential decision to go with dice provided by the tournament is that there are some discrepancies between different types of dice, which have been observed over time by different TOs.
On a "normal" die, a 6 should be rolled an ever so slightly higher percentage of times than a 1, simply because of the difference in weight and where they respectively appear on opposite sides of a die, with the 1 side being the heaviest and the 6 side the lightest. This is expected and how dice are designed to operate.
The problem comes in when you round off the sides and corners, thereby allowing the dice to roll easier, which then allows the weight differential to be ever so slightly more pronounced again because the die should roll to the heaviest side face down more easily. Then you add extra carvings, etc., onto the facing where the 6 pips should be, taking off even more weight. The overall size and weight of the dice and the depth of any pips or carvings also affects this as well. The less the 6 side weighs in relation to the 1 side, the more likely the die will roll a 6, as the die will stop with its heaviest side face down; and these particular styles of dice will roll 6's slightly more often than a "normal" die, which is more evenly distributed and weighted.
This is countered somewhat when a large handful of dice are rolled, because they impede other die's ability to fully roll to the heavy side down, etc.
This exhausts my limited understanding of statistics and "dice science." If a player rolls 1,000 die rolls in a game and the extra carvings alter the dice favorably 10 times, then this is probably not worth getting too bothered about. But if it alters 50 or 100 rolls favorably, then this is a problem.
As I stated in my previous post, several years ago, skull faced dice were popular where the skull face replaced the 1. I haven't seen those types of dice in several years. There is probably a reason for that...because the 1 side would be the lightest side of the die, and it would inevitably roll face up more often; people anecdotally observed and understood this, and so stopped using them.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I pity the fool who wants to use my dice! (cuz they roll really bad). Far as I am concerned either is fine.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Are we having a Captains Meeting at Adepticon?
21
Post by: blood angel
You and I can hang out and the others will come to us
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Good luck fellas!
If anything important is discussed, be sure to fill everyone in! Except me, Al would never share info with me...
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Here's some important information for you Wiley....
You don't want to play the BNB......
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
There will Not be a Captains meeting at Adepticon due to no more than 2 peoples schedule syncing at once.
We will be there representing The SIEGE and Dicehead Games and I will be available all weekend long to discuss in person anything that you want to discuss.
I will be taking notes from the conversations and will return from Adepticon ready to address anything that needs to be added/changed.
So come by our booth and see us!
-Shane
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I will be coming by your booth and discussing things, shooting the breeze, checking out your wares, and maybe sharing a brew!
Looking forward to seeing you guys (and Gals = Mel).
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Also. as far as dice are concerned, dice will be subject to the judges inspection/discretion. For absolute sure. no Hero Clix Dice will be allowed at any event.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
We are at Adepticon NOW!! And will be all weekend so come by and see us and we are running an Adepticon $200 ATC Pre-Reg special (Cash or Paypal)
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Sounds like 22+ teams signed up for this so far....
Shaping up to be a BIG tourney! Lot's of hard teams....
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
OK guys, just touching base with some updates:
1 - Pre Registration is now a MUST. The Deadline is Saturday May 14th. If you are coming, you MUST have army lists, Payment and 5 Players Registered with us. We understand that things happen and if you need to substitute a player at the last minute, this is acceptable, but you have to have your TEAM registered, Paid, and Army Lists on or before Saturday May 14th. We want to make sure that we do this thing right and we have to watch our costs so we have to ask that this be done.
2 - An addition to the Mission Rules : No marker may be placed higher than the first floor (NOT the ground floor) of any building or structure. Pretty simple.
3 - We added a BUNCH of sponsors and awesome prize support at Adepticon (and another team) - this event is getting better by the day!
Thanks - Shane
963
Post by: Mannahnin
No objectives on the 3rd floor? Minimizing the disadvantage of bikes and thunderwolves, 'eh?
Seriously, this event looks awesome. I wish it wasn't the month immediately following Adepticon. With my club mostly flying distance away, it's just too soon for us. :(
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
More Updates:
HOW PAIRING WILL WORK:
EACH Round, After teams have been paired against each other by the Tournament Judges, the 2 Team Captains will then pair their players against each other. This will be done as follows:
Team players pairing system :
Captains will have 30 minutes before each match to decide who will play with which opponent. They can consult with and use the help of the rest of the team as they wish. All army lists will be available at this time for both Teams review and consideration.
Players during match will be matched by Captains in the following way:
"Secret challenge" - At the start of the pairing captains chose secretly one player - a champion. Champions can be different from round to round. Both names of champions are written down at the start of the pairing on a separate piece of paper and revealed and the end of it. Champions play on the last available table.
After that:
1. Both captains roll a dice.
2. Captain A who rolled lowest puts forward player A.
3. Captain B puts a player to fight player A.
4. Captain A chooses a table for that game.
5. Captain B who rolled highest puts forward player B.
6. Captain A puts a player to fight player B.
7. Captain B chooses a table for that game.
8. Captain A .....
963
Post by: Mannahnin
Pairings sounds cool. I SO wish we could be there.
Edit: Other question redacted, as it appears it was relevant to an error/confusion. Thanks for the quick correction/clarification!
23345
Post by: ryan3740
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Post removed due to confusion. I hope the event goes well, it looks awsome!
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Please forget/disregard anything previously mentioned about Dawn of War Deployment. I was temporarily touched by Chaos...all is fine here now...thanks!
There are no changes/clarifications for Dawn of War Deployment.
Ryan - Can you please remove your last post to help reduce the chances of any confusion?
Thanks!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Less than one month and counting!
woot!
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
First off, despite the tornados and storms, we are still on schedule for SIEGE 2011, so no worries there! (Thanks to all of those who have checked up on us!)
Second, the schedule has been adjusted on Sunday morning to begin games by 8:30, giving everyone a little more time to get to the airport or on the road back home a little sooner Sunday evening. If all goes to plan, the last round will end no later than 4:00 and we will have awards done and everyone on their way by 5:00 at the very latest!
Remember, if you are heading back to the Nashville airport you will gain an hour due to time zones!
And once again, remember that we need army lists and payment by Saturday May 14th - IF you have a problem with either of these, please notify me asap and we can work with your situation!
Also, remember that there are single 40k Fantasy Warmachine Flames of War Malifaux Battlefleet Gothic and many other CCG and RPG events in addition to the ATC - So bring your whole club and all your friends - because the more people we have come, the better the event gets in years to come!
16 Days Away!!!!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Believe there is a 40K Team Tournament at 6pm'sh on Friday night as well!
21
Post by: blood angel
Yeah, should be a real good weekend of gaming.
I'm looking forward to it.
Been laboring over my list for a couple of days now
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Crunch times captains! I have changed my list 3 times in the past 2 weeks, I have to get my teams lists finalized and sent in too. I can't wait!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
LOL - I think part of the strategy about a team tournament this big is getting the team together and keeping it together until show time.
We've had one guy drop, had to find another, restructure lists and armies that each player runs, etc.....
At the end though - got a great bunch - just gotta finalize lists this week and send it in.....I'm up to version 15 of mine so far in army builder!
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Some important reminders and stuff!
1- IF you are having trouble making the deadline, DO NOT JUST GIVE UP! Contact me at shane@dicehead.com and we will work with you to get you here!!! There are a handful of teams looking for players and we can work to get them together and if someone drops, we can work with you up to the morning of to get replacements so Don't Give Up without talking to me first!
2 - THE ATC EVENT REGISTRATION DEADLINE IS THIS SATURDAY MAY 14TH! Army Lists and Payment should be made on or before this Saturday Please!
3 - Please remember that there are MANY other events at SIEGE besides the ATC and encourage as many of your club to come for those events! - Singles, Doubles for 40k, Fantasy, Flames of War, Warmachine and MORE!
4 - Teams need to be present at 8:45 a.m. on Saturday Morning for debriefing and pairing examples.
5 - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE REVIEW THE ATC WEBSITE ASAP as many things have changed over the past weeks, including times, rules, mission and registration. PLEASE make sure that everone on your team does this as well! We have tried to cover every base so there is as little confusion as possible at the ATC.
6 - The Prize Support for this Event is growing Every Day, the Trophies are going to be Awesome - Be Excited!
7 - If you know of any team that are dragging their feet, they need to be encouraged Today! If you know other Teams that have been planning on coming, PLEASE ask them if they received this particular email as in all of the events I have ran in my long gaming career, there is always that one guy or group that just completely missed all of the info and show up the day of!
8 - Please make sure to share this information with your team!
THANKS!
-Shane
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Hope everyone is signed up!
Less than a week away!
21
Post by: blood angel
How many of you guys are competing in the doubles tournament tomorrow?
It will be nice to see what sorts of trash talk starts then.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
Blade and Bolter will be there with a couple teams...
About 24 hours to go until doubles! Woot!
18933
Post by: wileythenord
SIEGE!! I'm not playing in the doubles, but I'll probably be down there, and I'll start the trash talk immediately!
9988
Post by: Budzerker
This thing started already right? How about some coverage? Who's winning America so far? ;-p
1985
Post by: Darkness
Its a photo finish it seems. All I know is team Wrecking BOLS is one of the ones in contention
37508
Post by: chrispryor
I'm chris pryor shane grubbs partner in ATC. We wanted to thank everyone again for attending this weekend. We will be making some improvements for next years event and look forward to seeing you all there. Shane will post the full results as soon as everything settles.
It was nice meeting many of you and I wish I could have met you all.
Chris Pryor
Grand Adventures Comics
Murfreesboro, TN
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
That was awesome! It was by far the coolest team tournament format I have ever played in and it was also simply my favorite tournament ever. I never liked team tournaments but playing your own game while your 4 buddies are doing the same is just so good. Even if you are getting stomped you are just trying to score that 5 or 10 points(out of 30) to help out your bros.
WC/BoLS won beating WC East in round 6. It was really close between X-Men and WC/BoLS, I think WC/BoLS won by 5-15 points and we are talking about scores around the 600 mark. WC East got 3rd and Best Sports because we are so nice as we pick up all of those models of ours that you kill.
The event was well run and went off without a hitch. Props to Shane and his whole crew for doing everything they could to make us comfortable. The only problem was it was super hot and we sweated quite a bit. They made sure to have ice cold water and set up industrial fans and that did help a bit. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that we are looking forward to coming back next year to a facility with good A/C. Alot of people said they would really like it if it was in the fall or winter but I'll just take A/C. This is my new flagship tournament. If I can only go to one it will be the ATC.
963
Post by: Mannahnin
Sounds really awesome. I got a last-minute invite to come down and be a filler, but couldn't make it. Ben (the captain of the US ETC team) also got a last-minute invite to fill a spot and I know he flew down from Boston to attend; we played a practice game Thursday night. I really hope to be able to bring the team down next year.
I can't wait for more details, and hopefully some full batreps and tourney reports!
21
Post by: blood angel
I want to echo Shinkaze's statements above.
The tournament ran very smoothly and Shane and crew are fantastic.
1986
Post by: thehod
Sounds awesome. I cant wait till next year to give it a go.
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Team Chatta-Winning! here reporting. Our team started off with really bad games, playing Da Boyz in the first round and generally getting shellacked, but we all had fun games. In fact I think our entire team talked about Da Boyz being some of our favorite games, despite getting creamed!
Loved the layout, naming champions added an entirely new level of strategy to the tournament and made things interesting at times, one game we named our BW ork army the champ and the other team named their foot ork army the champ! What a bloodbath!
Overall great experience, AC sucked, but since I'm the local it wasn't that big of a deal to me to go home, chillax and take a cold shower after the tournament, but it probably royally sucked for the travelers out there. I mean, Goatboy probably always smells like goat-ass, but the rest of us aren't used to that kind of smelly post game BO...
5321
Post by: Aldonis
I'll post more later when I have more time - but what a great tournament. As a 15 year'sh GT attendee - it was great to see so many players that I've either gotten to know or at least know of over the years at one event - often playing head to head.
The tournament was stellar. A few nit's that got worked out around rounds starting - but well managed and organized. Hat's off to Shane, Mel, Chris and their staff. So blessed to have stores and owners like Dicehead and Grand Adventures in the great state of Tennessee.
The AC dying sucked royally - hope they get some money back from the venue.
35235
Post by: Next Level
It was a fantastic event! I got to bring my new Grey Knights out
18933
Post by: wileythenord
@Next Level: I never got a chance to mention it to you during the ATC, but dude that storm raven is amazing in person! I've looked at your blog and seen your stuff, but in real life...holy smokes! I played on the table directly across from your game during round 4 using Deathwing. I saw that Raven and then had to go change my pants...
5435
Post by: extrenm(54)
This event was excellent, and was the most fun I have ever had playing 40k. I loved the format, and got 6 games against 6 top-notch players. I look forward to the next one!
3963
Post by: Fishboy
It was a great event!! Shane and Chris did an excellent job. The only down side was the venue itself and the Choo Choo should be ashamed of themselves for putting anyone through that cluster.
As a correction to an above post, DaBoyz won 3rd place. There was a tie for 3rd and 4th and we won it on victory points.
It was great to see a lot of old freinds and make a bunch of new ones. Shane will probably do this next year and I would recommend everyone start planning their teams now. This went off so well I expect it to sell out next year early on!!
19754
Post by: puma713
+1
Our team had a blast. We got worked the first round by WreckingBoLS, but then we climbed back to the middle of the pack before Day 2, where we started getting worked again! We all had good games, save maybe 2, and we met a lot of great players, painters and hobbyists. 70 people (14 teams) showed and it made for a very interesting mash up. Our opponents were WreckingBoLS, Red Shirt Ensigns, East Coast Assassins, Blade 'n Bolter 1 and Blade 'n Bolter 2. All great guys and great games.
@ Next Level Painting - I owe you one after that first game against your Grey Knights with my Blood Angels. I won't be caught off guard by that speed again! Great showing man, you really had me back on my heels from Turn 1.
Army pics to come. . .
While there were a lot of folks that didn't display their armies, a lot did and here are a handful of shots that I was able to grab on Day 1:
I wanted to show this army last because it was so nice. The warboss pictured afterwards was made entirely of Green Stuff, plus a few bits. Pretty amazing.
37508
Post by: chrispryor
We will definitely be doing it again next year. We will be making the apporpriate changes and looking into a new venue as well. We may possibly run it in Nashville as well. As long as it is financially feasible
6065
Post by: Darkwynn
Chris,
Check out Sheraton music city, I stayed there over the weekend and the place was decent. 89.00 a night and I am sure they have to have the room.
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
That warboss is sick.
Guy's slaanesh army with the wildly converted Rhinos is one of my favorites.
35235
Post by: Next Level
wileythenord wrote:@Next Level: I never got a chance to mention it to you during the ATC, but dude that storm raven is amazing in person! I've looked at your blog and seen your stuff, but in real life...holy smokes! I played on the table directly across from your game during round 4 using Deathwing. I saw that Raven and then had to go change my pants...
Thanks man! i appreciate it, did we talk?
puma713 wrote:+1
Our team had a blast. We got worked the first round by WreckingBoLS, but then we climbed back to the middle of the pack before Day 2, where we started getting worked again! We all had good games, save maybe 2, and we met a lot of great players, painters and hobbyists. 70 people (14 teams) showed and it made for a very interesting mash up. Our opponents were WreckingBoLS, Red Shirt Ensigns, East Coast Assassins, Blade 'n Bolter 1 and Blade 'n Bolter 2. All great guys and great games.
@ Next Level Painting - I owe you one after that first game against your Grey Knights with my Blood Angels. I won't be caught off guard by that speed again! Great showing man, you really had me back on my heels from Turn 1.
Tommy?
met me at wargames con for a rematch
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
I see Skittlemanders!
3963
Post by: Fishboy
SlaveToDorkness wrote:I see Skittlemanders!
Thats Salmonanders to you bub 
@Chris-Nashville might be a good option. It is a cheaper and easier airport to fly into if memory serves correctly. Plus it is a little more centrally located so you might pull more from out west. I would honestly be shocked if the ATC did not sell out next year. Make sure you give teams that came this year first shot hehehe.
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
Looking forward to seeing them at the Maul, FB!
Nashville would practically guarantee a showing of the Slave!
I had a previous engagement this year so missed out. Luckily Nashcon is this weekend! (not that it compares of course)
18933
Post by: wileythenord
@Next Level: No I was busy watching my opponent (ok guy, but he seemed to be fighting some of his own daemons in his head during the game...) so I couldn't take a break to step back there and talk.
16600
Post by: Spacecurves
The first ATC was a great success despite all of us nearly dying of heat stroke. The fact that we had a great time despite streaming sweat for 12 hours each day shows how fun it was. I want to thank the organizers, Shane, Chris, Mel and everyone else for creating this tournament. I think this event is going to explode in popularity. Everyone I talked to loved the format, and with some tweaks, a nicer venue, and the testimony of everyone who came this year, next year is sure to have a large turnout. Start building terrain now guys, you are going to need it!
I was a mercenary this year, selling my services to "Team Toledo" to cover for a last minute drop-out. The team was re-christened "The Original X-Men". We had a blast, and came in second overall, with the "Wrecking Bols" edging us out by like 10 pts. Really close! I had some incredible games, and there was a really impressive number of top players in attendance. I am proud to say I've got the Dark Eldar pretty well figured out now, I won 5 games drew 1, while being "point man" twice and champion once. I think I came in 3rd for highest individual points total. Chris Courtney beat me and Kenny (Next Level) by like 15 points, that punk!
Also, as the Captain of Team America, I'm excited this event is going to take off. Having lots of the best players in the country get experience with this format is going to really help our future ETC teams. So I am particularly grateful to Shane and crew for getting this off the ground. You have done your country a great service!
-Ben
21
Post by: blood angel
The 'match ups' is for sure where we struggled with the most. I feel like we have that pretty well nailed down for the next one.
It was comical on how wrong we were about our champion pick in 5 out of the 6 rounds, heh.
The whole process takes a little getting used to but it was increibly fun. We had to 'brute force' our way through most of the rounds. Thankfully we brought some brutes
18933
Post by: wileythenord
I think on the weekend I had 2 correct champions pegged. It really made you have to think and consider matchups from both captain's perspectives.
16600
Post by: Spacecurves
Mannahnin wrote:Sounds really awesome. I got a last-minute invite to come down and be a filler, but couldn't make it. Ben (the captain of the US ETC team) also got a last-minute invite to fill a spot and I know he flew down from Boston to attend; we played a practice game Thursday night. I really hope to be able to bring the team down next year.
I can't wait for more details, and hopefully some full batreps and tourney reports!
Ragnar, that practice game helped a lot, I played two lash chaos armies at the tournament! One of them had 3 dreadnoughts 3 defilers and 2 lash princes. Boy oh boy was it interesting to take that on with Dark Eldar!
5321
Post by: Aldonis
The part I missed was how important it was to get the right army on the right board - almost more important than the list matchup part. Know that we had two games go bad more due to terrain than anything.
Some lists need the right cover to work.....
3963
Post by: Fishboy
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Looking forward to seeing them at the Maul, FB!
Nashville would practically guarantee a showing of the Slave!
I had a previous engagement this year so missed out. Luckily Nashcon is this weekend! (not that it compares of course)
Not sure if I will make it to the Maul this year. It is tough with money and schedules so it is still up in the air. This means you may actually have a chance to win best painted
19754
Post by: puma713
Spacecurves wrote:
I think I came in 3rd for highest individual points total. Chris Courtney beat me and Kenny (Next Level) by like 15 points, that punk!
Also, my brother was tied with Kenny. He had four 30's, a 25 and a 10. I had four 30's and two 0's. One of which Kenny handed to me!  Automatically Appended Next Post: blood angel wrote:The 'match ups' is for sure where we struggled with the most. I feel like we have that pretty well nailed down for the next one.
It was comical on how wrong we were about our champion pick in 5 out of the 6 rounds, heh.
And I completely agree with this. I'm still in the air about the Champion mechanic. I talked to a lot of people over the course of the weekend and found some that liked it, but the majority that I talked to weren't crazy about it. With 8 players ( ETC), I could see something like this, or the swapping of one opponent, but with only 5 players, it really made it more difficult to try to match good pairings.
37508
Post by: chrispryor
All good points we will address. Definitely the champion thing. We really want the future events to run easier and still have the same unique feel.
35235
Post by: Next Level
I can see that! it wasreal interesting fo sho
@ben
we gonna play at wargames con?
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
2011 40k American Team Champions – Wrecking BOLS
Best General (Individual, Best Overall Score) – Chris Courtney – 170 Pts out of a Possible 180!
Best Sportsmanship (Team) – Wrecking Crew East
Best Army (Paint & Theme) – Joe Johnson, Salamanders
New Dice Award (Individual, Lowest Overall Score) – Mike Wooten
Final 40k ATC Team Standings
Wrecking BOLS – 605 points
Original X-Men – 590 points
Da Boyz – 515 points (3rd place by 849 VP’s)
Wrecking Crew East – 515 points
C.A.G.E. - 485 points
Borderlands Gaming - 480 points
Chicago Kamikazes - 465 points
Blade N Bolters - 445 points
East Coast Assassins - 440 points
Chatta Winning! - 405 points
The Flash Gitz - 380 points
Team Voltron - 355 points
Red Shirt Ensigns - 335 points
The Cursed Founding - 275 points
5435
Post by: extrenm(54)
Spacecurves wrote:Mannahnin wrote:Sounds really awesome. I got a last-minute invite to come down and be a filler, but couldn't make it. Ben (the captain of the US ETC team) also got a last-minute invite to fill a spot and I know he flew down from Boston to attend; we played a practice game Thursday night. I really hope to be able to bring the team down next year.
I can't wait for more details, and hopefully some full batreps and tourney reports!
Ragnar, that practice game helped a lot, I played two lash chaos armies at the tournament! One of them had 3 dreadnoughts 3 defilers and 2 lash princes. Boy oh boy was it interesting to take that on with Dark Eldar!
I will try and be less forgetful next time, that was not a fun way to lose. It was a great game though, and you were a great opponent, I hope to play you again soon!
16600
Post by: Spacecurves
Next Level wrote:I can see that! it wasreal interesting fo sho
@ben
we gonna play at wargames con?
Damn right we will! I have to defend my title after all.
39140
Post by: EndlessGamingNC
Ken. Pretty sure I'm doing Bols/Wargames Con w/e. They still have a 2v2 Team event?
Sad I missed the ATC. Next year I'll be @ both Adepticon and ATC to work w/ my WC Teams!!!
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
It was a great time but it wasn't the same without you Mike, as well as Hod, Shane and Steve. I'd mention Dave but I don't think I'll ever see him again. Maybe in another life.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd prefer there be no Champions in the future.
One thing I noticed is that the objectives could easily get cluttered up and I ended up playing a few games on effectively 4x4 or even 3x4 boards. Maybe no Seize Ground objective within 18 of each other? Just an idea for thought.
1985
Post by: Darkness
Don't count me out just yet Brian 
Next year will probably be out (saving for a wedding) but I plan to return to the national scene.
9974
Post by: sabote
Shinkaze wrote:
It was a great time but it wasn't the same without you Mike, as well as Hod, Shane and Steve. I'd mention Dave but I don't think I'll ever see him again. Maybe in another life.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd prefer there be no Champions in the future.
One thing I noticed is that the objectives could easily get cluttered up and I ended up playing a few games on effectively 4x4 or even 3x4 boards. Maybe no Seize Ground objective within 18 of each other? Just an idea for thought.
Yeah not a fan of the champion mechanic but great tourney overall. Need work on terrain but I mentioned that while I was there. More LOS blocking would be good. The 18 inch may help but I felt it was more because you could claim multiple objectives with one unit. This caused people to clump them together so you could have 2 seize and a capture objective in a pretty small area of the board. I think maybe not allowing people to take more than 1 objective or contest more than 1 with a single unit would actually help solve that issue.
35235
Post by: Next Level
i had no problems with the scenarios....just terrain as you said
19754
Post by: puma713
Next Level wrote:
Tommy?
met me at wargames con for a rematch
I'll have to see if I can make that! I think I let you shoot me with 4 Bloodstrike Missiles from a GK Stormraven.  Not that it would've changed the outcome since, by then, you had it in the bag.
9974
Post by: sabote
Next Level wrote:i had no problems with the scenarios....just terrain as you said
yes scenarios were fine I just was addressing the marks being so close I felt was because one unit could hold more or contest more than one object which caused people to bring them in and shorten the boards at times.
611
Post by: Inquisitor_Malice
Congrats to Wrecking BOLS on the win.
The event was a blast. It was awesome to see and play in a lot of competitive games. The team aspect of this event is definitely makes for a very enjoyable weekend. All of my games were challenging and fun to play.
Overall, a big thumbs up to Shane and Mel.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
We really do want and need your input so we can make a better event year after year and it is much appreciated, so let us know what we can do better.
3963
Post by: Fishboy
I like the champion component but I think it should be hidden. Basically you run it the way you ran it but the champions get revealed after all the sets. Then they pair up and whoever they are paired up with before being revealed play each other. Adds to the mystery and it means the team that does not win the roll off has a chance to shake things up. I love the terrain heehh.
1986
Post by: thehod
Spacecurves wrote:Next Level wrote:I can see that! it wasreal interesting fo sho
@ben
we gonna play at wargames con?
Damn right we will! I have to defend my title after all.
Ah your Ben, its good to put a name to a handle on the forums. I am probably one of the few guys around here who uses part of their name on their handles.
Dude, lots of people will be gunning to de-throne last year's champ. Happy hunting.
611
Post by: Inquisitor_Malice
Fishboy wrote:I like the champion component but I think it should be hidden. Basically you run it the way you ran it but the champions get revealed after all the sets. Then they pair up and whoever they are paired up with before being revealed play each other. Adds to the mystery and it means the team that does not win the roll off has a chance to shake things up.
The champion was hidden until the fourth pairing was finalized.
23573
Post by: imalave
I would like to begin by thanking Shane and his wonderful staff for putting together a great event. Our team from Chicago had a blast! All of our games were competitive. I won't forget the game I had against Joe Johnson, I laughed that entire game! I didn't care if I lost (I won on the tie breaker.), he was awsome! All of the teams we played were great! Overall meeting great players from around the country is what made this a great experience, and we can't wait unitl next year. Yes, of course the venue needs to be upgraded, but other than that I would recommend everyone interested in playing in this type of format would make plans for next year!
I hope to see some of you up here for Adepticon, if not maybe at Wargames Con. I love Austin! Until then, I hope everyone made it safe back home and I wish you all the very best!
5182
Post by: SlaveToDorkness
Fishboy wrote:SlaveToDorkness wrote:Looking forward to seeing them at the Maul, FB!
Nashville would practically guarantee a showing of the Slave!
I had a previous engagement this year so missed out. Luckily Nashcon is this weekend! (not that it compares of course)
Not sure if I will make it to the Maul this year. It is tough with money and schedules so it is still up in the air. This means you may actually have a chance to win best painted
See, that's why I want you there, to see that face you make when you lose.
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
I've been thinking that losing the roll for pairing is even more of a disadvantage than you would think.
Loser pushes forward a list for winner to match.
The winner pushes forward a list for loser to match. So far pretty even but the loser has a slight disadvantage.
Loser pushes second list. Now the winner gets to pair against that and he can easily see that of the 2 lists remaining one is probably much more likely to be champion. At the very least the winner can make sure the match up can't be bad for him by choosing his list that performs best against the remaining two lists that he hasn't seen paired yet. While people may not have realized this at the time I'm sure they will figure it out by next year.
So it seems to me that the loser gets to choose about 1 out of 4 of the pairings. If there was no champions it would be 2 out of 5. That would be 25% to 40%. Still bad to lose roll for pairing but not nearly as bad.
What if the loser got some benefit in game like +5 points for the round. Just an idea. Automatically Appended Next Post: Darkness wrote:Don't count me out just yet Brian
Next year will probably be out (saving for a wedding) but I plan to return to the national scene.
Just one event Dave is all we ask and this is the one. Lets see if WC can win without the help of those BoLS masterminds.
7462
Post by: The_Rogue_Engineer
THE SIEGE wrote:We really do want and need your input so we can make a better event year after year and it is much appreciated, so let us know what we can do better.
I really liked the event and had a blast. However, here are the things that I would like to see improved:
1. A better venue. The AC didn't work and even if it had I doubt the room would have been comfortable. Also, the consession stand was closed on Sunday.
2. Allow time on Saturday for dinner. When we were let out on Saturday, we couldn't find an open restuarant. Maybe there were places open, but we couldn't find any. Perhaps handing out regional food and bar information could help.
3. I really liked how early we were finished on Sunday. That was great.
4. More terrain was needed.
Food for thought.
Also, Congratulations Wrecking Bols.
-Mike Mutscheller
Team X-men
35235
Post by: Next Level
puma713 wrote:Next Level wrote:
Tommy?
met me at wargames con for a rematch
I'll have to see if I can make that! I think I let you shoot me with 4 Bloodstrike Missiles from a GK Stormraven. Not that it would've changed the outcome since, by then, you had it in the bag.
ur right i totally fotgot haha
i actually laughed cuz if i remember correctly its the only time the storm raven didnt blow soething up.It wasagainst the back armor of a smoked rhino and urrolled cover saves like a boss.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
The positive:
I thought the tournament was run really well, and the format was fun. I can tell a lot of thought went into streamliing the gaming process as much as possible. The ability to walk 20 yards over to the food vendor and get drinks or snacks or even a meal, within the gaming hall, was great. I went and got a drink several times mid-game and do not think I was away from a table for more than 1-2 minutes.
The negatives:
I did not like the champion part of the picks. I would suggest either a straight match up system with no champion, or go completely blind, with the captains randomly pairing teams. But this is just a personal preference, and some people may have liked it.
Terrain was an issue. 3/4 of the tables had what I consider light terrain, and the other 1/4 only slightly more. There was almost no meaningful LOS blocking terrain anywhere; and the few tables that did have some (with a few exceptions) typically had it packed into the backs of the table corners. If you had a shooting army, or a fast army that could move on from the table edge, you had a distinct advantage. I know that owning enough terrain to sufficiently cover 30-40 tables is costly, both in terms of buying the terrain and in storing it. My suggestion here would be to have a contest within a contest, and let teams that choose to, to bring enough terrain to cover one (or more) 5-tables section. And then let participants vote on their favorite set of tables. There are enough gaming groups within a two hour drive in every direction that this would probably be feasible for a lot of teams (although the flyers probably wouldn't be able to do it).
Overall though, aside from my intermittent poor game play, and the heat, I had a good time.
22120
Post by: culsandar
I too had a blast, playing 6 strong opponents.
As far as improvements for the next one:
1) for the love of God A/C, but I knew this couldn't be fixed. An above poster was right that even if it was working that room is oddly shaped (like a gymnasium) and probably wouldn't have been that cool anyway. Maybe a location change?
2) I loved the scoring, but the missions kind of got repetitive after 6 rounds. Maybe throw in some additional objectives like headhunter, etc.
3) I think the number of players plus a champion is a bad idea. Let me break this down:
If you won the roll, you got first pick, put up a list, got a second pick, and the other two are decided. If you lost the roll, you put up a list, got a pick, put up a list, and the other two or decided.
Winning this roll was tantamount to having all the right match ups, and giving you all the power. The losing team only got to pick one match up out of 5. That's huge. If you want to do the champion addition the teams need to be an even number, 4 or 6.
Now, another fix that I brought up to my group is what if you bring an extra list, but keep the 5 players. Drop the champion mechanic, and bring 6 armies to your 5 man team event. This provides a deeper strategy level, because now your opponent is trying to guess which army you will leave out over which player you will leave out. Team 1 will get first choice, then team 2, then team 1, then team 2, then team 1 gets the last, but it's not a guarantee. There is only one player left, but he could conceivably bring either army to the table. This would require that your team be familiar with a 6th army, enough to play it, and have a few players who are really good at it when their normal army doesn't match up well to the opponent's. But it adds a level of strategy that is much higher than the champion system.
Thanks for the event Shane!
3963
Post by: Fishboy
@Tony-That was a great game and a lot of fun. It was a well deserved tie and I was just glad I got to kill off all those Thunderwolves hehe.
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Fishboy wrote:SlaveToDorkness wrote:Looking forward to seeing them at the Maul, FB!
Nashville would practically guarantee a showing of the Slave!
I had a previous engagement this year so missed out. Luckily Nashcon is this weekend! (not that it compares of course)
Not sure if I will make it to the Maul this year. It is tough with money and schedules so it is still up in the air. This means you may actually have a chance to win best painted
See, that's why I want you there, to see that face you make when you lose.
Ahhh.....thats what the bridesmaids always say.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor_Malice wrote:Fishboy wrote:I like the champion component but I think it should be hidden. Basically you run it the way you ran it but the champions get revealed after all the sets. Then they pair up and whoever they are paired up with before being revealed play each other. Adds to the mystery and it means the team that does not win the roll off has a chance to shake things up.
The champion was hidden until the fourth pairing was finalized.
Yeah but what I am saying is you can commit the champion to a pairing but then he has to go to the other champion after all the other pairings are set. Basicially as it sits whoever wins the rolloff gets to pick 3 out of 4 matchups. They get the 1st and 3rd and the 4th is whoever is left. If you lose the rolloff you only get to pick one match up. Having the champion as a fake can really change the matchups around.
To simplify: Both teams choose their champs secretly then roll to see who gets first match up. Then the second team goes. This is all similar to what we did. However the champion can be put into a match up at any point but once the champs are exposed they go play each other and the matchups they had play each other.
5442
Post by: Eldanar
Here is a suggestion I thought of but haven't really parsed it that much.
Both captains lay down their 5 armies lists, and they are numerically ordered 1-5. Teams roll to see who gets to pick first. The loser of the roll chooses one of their team's armies. They then roll a d6, and get to fight the corresponding army with whatever they roll from their opponents 5 armies. If they roll a 1, then they fight the first list, a 2, the second, etc. If they roll higher than the remaining number of opponent armies, then they can choose which of the remaing armies their army fights.
This is repeated sequentially for all five match ups, with it obviouosly getting easier to beat the roll with each successive match up. (A 6, then a 5+, then a 4+, etc.). Like I said, I haven't really thought this out that much, and do not know if it would be a good idea or not.
19754
Post by: puma713
Fishboy wrote:
To simplify: Both teams choose their champs secretly then roll to see who gets first match up. Then the second team goes. This is all similar to what we did. However the champion can be put into a match up at any point but once the champs are exposed they go play each other and the matchups they had play each other.
Or maybe, the Champion can be revealed at any time at the beginning of one of the pairings, and that forces the other team to present their Champion at that point in the pairing. Of course, the winner would probably always present their Champion first to force the loser to reveal his, so I'm not sure that that helps at all.
24800
Post by: B-rad
I had a great time at the event it was a lot of fun and a whole new experience for me. This was my second tournament that I have left the Chicago Land area for. The first was Ard Boy Semi finals in Ann Arbor Michigan, which I ended up taking first place and my fellow team mate Mitch Tucker came in third we had a awesome time since we both qualified for finals.
This ATC event was nothing like I had ever done before and I can truly say that I was not prepared for the format at all. I was under the assumption that we could ensure great match ups around the board and I honestly did not know what the meta-game was going to be. I never expected lash price lists they are not that big any more around Chicago, so I really never got in a good practice game against it with my foot orks. (Not that it would really matter). The truth is that the Chicago Kamikazies all just wrote up our lists independently base on what we had painted at the time. I think next year we will have to meet as a group and go through all the elements we will see and make sure we have them covered. When a opponents list comes up and not one of the 5 players on our team want to play it there is something wrong.
I learned a lot and I will be ready to help my my teammates get into the right mind set and get prepared before the event.
Here is some of my feed back-
1) The venue was not appropriate I know everyone said it but it was not just the heat...I felt like there was no real good places to go eat and the fact that we could not bring outside beverages was rough. A tournament is not a tournament when DA Boys don't have bottles of liquor on the table.
2) I think the first day needs to start earlier so that places are not closed after and we have somewhere to go to dinner and get some rest for the second day. I know I would have like things to kick off at 8:30 sharp and keep the schedule moving along at a correct pace. Also the 30min parings should be a max timeline if you get done just start it up this moves things along a lot faster.
3) I think something needs to change with the pairings. The Chicago Kamikazes only won one of the 6 captains rolls. I think we need to replace the captain! But I felt that we were at a serious disadvantage with losing this roll when in reality I think the roll should just provide the team that wins with a smaller edge. Choosing only one match as opposed to 3 is a rough deal. The champs are already chosen but when that final list gets nominated and you look at the two remaining lists its usually easy to know which is the champ so the last pick gets to pick both game 3 and game 4....and he also choose game 1. thats a big advantage. I like the post on here that suggests you have a extra list and you don't know which army will be left out.
4) I would like to see this event go from the 5 man team to maybe 6 or more even more depending on how many people you think teams can commit too, it is so much fun that I don't think many teams would have a huge issue with it. I would just like to see more players from some of the other codex's you don't see at tourneys usually.
5) Ultimately, I think the future of this event could be a deciding factor in what gaming group represents Team USA in the European team tournament. Just a thought that is.
Thank you for running a great event and looking forward to it next year at a new location.
Alan Bajramovic
http://chicagokamikazes.blogspot.com/
18933
Post by: wileythenord
Actually there are tons of places nearby, but all of them are sit downs and we never had time between rounds to go there. I do suggest next year that someone (which if it is in Chattanooga, will be me!) puts together a list of nearby places with directions to get there. That would help tremendously!
I talked with Chris and Shane about maybe linking up a laptop to a LCD tv on the judge's table to let everyone know new round pairings and to display time remaining. I think that would help speed things along nicely.
I would like to see a format closer to the Nova standard with rotating deployment and main objectives.
5321
Post by: Aldonis
All good points...
I personally liked the standardized mission and weighting each component of the basic missions equally in each mission.
To me it takes away the randomness of "the mission was bad for me" and puts it squarely on the players to know how to win the mission.
Plus it really wrings out your army building skills to build a force that can out Kill Point, out Command and Control, and out Seize Ground any comers - all at the same time.
I agree on the champion mechanic. With 5 players it did provide an advantage to the winner. It was kind of fun to do - and the guess the opponents champ was interesting (we were hardly EVER right in our team). But at the end if you lose it you are rolling bad matchups in 3 to 5 of your games.
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
I really liked the consistency of using the same mission everytime. There was enough to think about during match ups. I'm of the camp that the table, the player and the army is enough variables especially with a fairly complex mission.
I would really prefer if Capture and Control was taken out of the mix but I can't think of anything to replace it that would just be another objective. It's true you have to make an army for this kind of mission but I think because 3-4 of the 5 objectives are so easily bunched together the strongest lists end up being assault armies and it takes some of the maneuvering out of the game.
21
Post by: blood angel
If you make one of the objectives Table Quarters it might reduce objective clumping.
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
I think that might just be worse. You would be fighting for the quarters and the loot counters at the same time.
The only thing I could think of is Hold the Center and loot counters can't be within 18 inches(or maybe more) of the center. You might have to remove the clause that they can't be within 12 inches of the board edge.
It's possible that you could do 4 objectives in each corner 12 inches from each table edge, Hold the Center and KPs. That sounds pretty good actually.
I like the loot counters in the corners for a few reasons.
1) it's more fair for shooting armies. When they are all bunched up it's really an assault armies world.
2) gives people a chance to do something with units that came out of reserves late or outflanked poorly.
3) rewards movement more than capture and control. creates a balance between shooting and assault.
I'd like to try it out but I have to help Parker test for Wargamescon. Hopefully the Blade and Bolter guys and ATC promoters will try it out to see if they like it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Might need to be 15, don't want it to be too close to the center but also not too far.
Capture and Control is the worst, lets find a way to get rid of it.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
Thanks again to everyone for their input!
We are already working on building a bigger, better ATC for 2012- Dates and other info to follow soon!
-Shane
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have made an " ATC Warhammer American Team Championship " Facebook Page. Please find it and like it and follow it for updates!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a quick response to a few things:
1 - The Champion Element will be fixed (or removed if need be).
2 - The terrain will be worked on. The way we had the sections set up were 2 light tables, 2 heavy tables and 1 mid table. This was designed that way to be a part of the paring strategy. Honestly I thought there would be complaints about too much terrain, guess I was WAY wrong.
3 - The Venue - That particular room houses over 300 people all weekend on several occasions throughout the year and the A/C has always kept it cool. We have other events there and have never had issues like that weekend. please believe me when I say that if I had never used that room before that I would definitely not put us all there! The problem started at 1:00 Saturday when we had to open the doors to let the fumes from the backed up sewage system out from where some MORON put 3 ft of Paper Towels down a toilet and ruined everyones weekend! Once those doors were opened and the air let out, there just was no catching up and all of the units froze up on us.
Outside beverages will be one of our priorities to address next year any venue big enough to house something like this will always have strict food/beverage constraints but we will fight harder for your ability to bring things in.
Honestly I was ashamed of the venue all weekend and I can't apologize enough from maintenance to concessions and beyond. We did get half of our money back!
4 - We will start earlier on Saturday and be sure to better inform everyone of food options. One of the reasons we had such a short lunch break and times between rounds was so that people could get somewhere ASAP that evening. We had fliers and information out on the front tables for food options, but I never thought to announce that - apologies.
All great and awesome points guys and the only comment I feel the need to "defend" ourselves against would be the schedule because I feel that we started on time and had the parings and rounds done and everyone playing on schedule. We wanted everyone there at 8:30 Sat morning and wanted everything wrapped up by 10:00 that night and I was the last one out of there and sitting at a restaurant by 10:45 Sat night. It was 12 hours worth of games, 1.5 of lunch breaks and then the time in-between to figure parings (a min of 15 mins between each round) so it should have been a least a 14.5 hour day that we managed to turn into a 13 hour day. Besides the awesome players and turnout, it was honestly one of the few things I was actually proud of over the weekend - LOL!
Ive rambled enough! Thanks!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Most likely that the ATC will not be a part of SIEGE next year so that we can concentrate solely on the ATC event.
Date Location and Details will follow Soon!
24717
Post by: Shinkaze
You guys did a great job, there is no doubt about that!
I wouldn't mind starting at 7 though so there would be more time to get some dinner and hang out.
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
We will most likely start at 7 next year.
23573
Post by: imalave
A 7a.m. start would be great! It would give us out-of-town guys an opportunity to enjoy the area, as well as, have time to hang out with the rest of the guys that Saturday night.
Tony Malave
http://chicagokamikazes.blogspot.com//
38664
Post by: THE SIEGE
ATC 2012 Date Set!
June 16 & 17 2012
Details can be found at : https://www.facebook.com/ATC40k
|
|
