Yes, yes, I know it's from the Daily Fail, but even so...

Daily Mail wrote:Barack Obama has declared that France is America’s greatest ally, undermining Britain’s Special Relationship with the U.S.

The President risked offending British troops in Afghanistan by saying that French president Nicolas Sarkozy is a ‘stronger friend’ than David Cameron.

The remarks, during a White House appearance with Mr Sarkozy, will reinforce the widely-held view in British diplomatic circles that Mr Obama has less interest in the Special Relationship than any other recent American leader.


Mr Obama said: 'We don’t have a stronger friend and stronger ally than Nicolas Sarkozy, and the French people.'

The comments follow a pattern of coldness towards the UK. When Gordon Brown was prime minister, Mr Obama snubbed his requests for meetings in the U.S.

He also denounced Britain during his inauguration speech.

The UK has lost nearly 350 troops in the war against the Taliban – seven times as many as France.

And there are more than 10,000 British soldiers serving in Helmand province, compared with just 3,850 Frenchmen.

Mr Obama's stance was swiftly condemned in Westminster.

Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former commander of the Sherwood Foresters regiment, said: 'I’m getting a bit fed up with the American President using terms like "best ally" so loosely.

'It’s Britain that has had more than 300 servicemen killed in Afghanistan, not France.

'That to my mind is a lot more powerful than any political gesture making.'

The remarks also angered conservatives in Washington.

Nile Gardiner, director of the Margaret Thatcher Centre For Freedom at the Heritage Foundation think-tank, said: 'Quite what the French have done to merit this kind of high praise from the U.S. President is difficult to fathom, and if the White House means what it says this represents an extraordinary sea change in foreign policy.'



Dr Gardiner, a former aide to Lady Thatcher, added: 'To suggest that Paris and not London is Washington’s strongest partner is simply ludicrous.

'Such a remark is not only factually wrong but insulting to Britain, not least coming just a few years after the French knifed Washington in the back over the war in Iraq.'

What's this guy's deal? I mean, I'm not bothered about the whole question of the 'Special Relationship', or even the back-handed insults - that's his prerogative, and totally his call to make in terms of his personal opinion.

But FRANCE?!? SERIOUSLY?

I wouldn't have thought most Americans feel closer to France than Britain. I can only conclude that Mr. Obama is a little out of touch with public opinion on this matter. I mean, I can see the point of flattering the French so cravenly, but at the potential expense of further alienating the USA's principle ally? It just seems... odd. If it was China or India it might make more sense politically, but to substitute one powerful European (and therefore intermediate-to-high in terms of world powers) nation for another doesn't seem to be a particularly shrewd move on his part.

It seems that he has a personal problem with the UK. I think this is borne out by some of his past comments.

Which is fine - I think our two countries are drifting apart anyway, certainly seeking new alliances. I think this is healthy. However, I wonder if Mr. Obama is seeking the right one in France.

Obama may be partial to snails. You never know.

The thing with these reports is that half is cocked up with witterings and murmurs being made into rumour then fact by politicians and to be honest it doesn't matter who he is bestest friends with.

He also said he has a better friend in Sarkozy than Cameron. I get that. Cameron is a tosser, but he is the only decent tosser we have had for years. Sarkozy has a better pron colection and a better looking wife.

It is childish to think that people are in Government saying "Noooo, we are better friends" "I wanted to be his best friend, not france" which, when you look at it is all it boils down to. Simple petty jealousy about who is Obama's bestest friend ever.

Well, the French do make the best flags; though they're typically white.

I don't see what Obama finds so great about Ol' Nicky; even the French people don't like him much; how can a leader that is thought so lowly of by his own people possibly be a great ally?

I know our government isn't amazing either, but we've supported America in its campaigns to a far larger degree than France, and what do we get? "Yo Britain, i'm really happy for you and imma let you finish, but France is our biggest ally of all time."

They both like to surrender?

Obama is probably doing the showbiz equivalent of "We absolutely love (generic city/town), nobody rocks harder than (generic city/town)."

He is a silly man.


Meanwhile in Downing Street...

Has it really come to this? Are we really skipping around the playground holding hands with France while Britain pouts under the jungle gym?

Holy crap, politics has taken a new low.....

It could have been worse. He could have picked Berlusconi.

Frazzled wrote:They both like to surrender?

Who do?

Albatross wrote:

Frazzled wrote:They both like to surrender?

Who do?

Obama & France, presumably

Berlusconi has all the best parties though...

Well, let's take a look at what Britiain has to offer vs. France.

Britain:

MONOCLES



France:

French "eye wear"



Favorite Boogieman

Britain:

Jack the Ripper



France:

Napoleon

Britain...



France...



....No contest.

Personally, I've had more Brits as close friends then Frenchies, and more Frenchies get on my nerves than Brits. I'll have to respectfully disagree with the commander in chief here.

I'd urge our friends across the pond not to lump us all together with Mr. Obama. Many many citizens respect the UK as our closest ally.

Also:

Britain:


Fance:
Sorry! Couldn't find anything with a sense of humor in France!

Favorite Dakka Poster:

Britain:

kilkrazy

France:

Do the French even post on this forum????

I think so, has a gnoll for his avatar. Only one I can remember though.

Tyyr wrote:I think so, has a gnoll for his avatar. Only one I can remember though.

So is his name Gnollman?

Commander Endova wrote:Personally, I've had more Brits as close friends then Frenchies, and more Frenchies get on my nerves than Brits. I'll have to respectfully disagree with the commander in chief here.

I'd urge our friends across the pond not to lump us all together with Mr. Obama. Many many citizens respect the UK as our closest ally.

Also:

Britain:


Fance:
Sorry! Couldn't find anything with a sense of humor in France!

Apparently neither can the French...

FITZZ wrote:


Apparently neither can the French...

Is that Napoleon Bonaparte in his formative years?

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:


Apparently neither can the French...

Is that Napoleon Bonaparte in his formative years?

Nope...Jerry Lewis...

FITZZ wrote:

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:


Apparently neither can the French...

Is that Napoleon Bonaparte in his formative years?

Nope...Jerry Lewis...

Never heard of him.

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:


Apparently neither can the French...

Is that Napoleon Bonaparte in his formative years?

Nope...Jerry Lewis...

Never heard of him.

Really?...He was Dean Martins sidekick in numerous films,heads the Muscular Dystrophy telethon..."Jerry's kids"...


...Anyway,he was quite popular with French audiences for some time.




.....Wow...have I gone WAY off topic.

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:


Apparently neither can the French...

Is that Napoleon Bonaparte in his formative years?

Nope...Jerry Lewis...

Never heard of him.

aaaannnnnddddd it's offical....I'm old.

.. Apt as some of them were, I think that's enough of the picture jokes for the moment please. ta.

I'm one of those things the French call us.

*snaps finger* *snaps finger*

Oh yeah,

Ignorant American.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:


Apparently neither can the French...

Is that Napoleon Bonaparte in his formative years?

Nope...Jerry Lewis...

Never heard of him.

aaaannnnnddddd it's offical....I'm old.

You and me both Maelstrom...you and me both...Checkers?

Wow. I thought I knew what a pointless, macro-infested conversation was before I read this thread. How wrong I was.


Regardless, France is a long time ally of the USA, though I would argue Britain is closer.

I would much rather have Britains army on my side over France's, because lets face it, the French don't really have an army.

Slarg232 wrote:I would much rather have Britains army on my side over France's, because lets face it, the French don't really have an army.

They have nukes...Don't forget the nukes.

And they have the Maginot Line! And the Atlantic Wall!

'Cause those were all defensive bastions that saved the French nation and thus forever saved the world!

Albatross wrote:

Frazzled wrote:They both like to surrender?

Who do?

British sailors when approached by Iranians in speed boats

I firmly believe he did it on purpose. He could have said "France is one of our greatest allies" or something, but he didn't.

The man clearly dislikes the British, we have known this since he took office, and he has made no secret of it. its childish. There are 60 million people here, how CAN it be personal?

Wars are won with blood, and seven times as many British soldiers have died in Afghanistan than French. And don't even start me on Iraq!

I'm aware its clearly beneficial to him to distance the US from the UK for political reasons, but I care not at all.

We fought and died in two American led wars, the man's an insensitive gakker.

I shall inform the missus to vote republican next election and will suspend all future trips to visit the family!

Slarg232 wrote:I would much rather have Britains army on my side over France's, because lets face it, the French don't really have an army.

Actually their army is very good of late and has a decent track record in peace keeping operations in Africa and elsewhere.

WarOne wrote:
They have nukes...Don't forget the nukes.

True, third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, plus a less deserved UN security council veto. You cant ignore therm, I will give them that.

WarOne wrote:
And they have the Maginot Line! And the Atlantic Wall!
'Cause those were all defensive bastions that saved the French nation and thus forever saved the world!

The Atlantic Wall was made by the Germans and almost worked. The Maginot line did work, its just the French didn't know how to exploit that. Yes the Germans went around, but the answer to that would have been to mas the French reserves behind the low countries and Ardennes. Had they did that and done it properly France would not have fallen.



Anyway enough backing up our French neighbours for one day.

Q. Why do the French not use "The Wave" in sports stadiums?

A.

mattyrm wrote:I'm aware its clearly beneficial to him to distance the US from the UK for political reasons

Not to get in the way of your Republican party style Obama bashing and blaming (which I use as a source of cheap comedy), but I'm fairly certain that this is wrong.

Oh dear...........yet another reason for me not to like Obama. Id apologize for the pres but, Im sure he will be out sooner then later, and since itll take a Republican to take his place, you Brits will be #1 again But yea, Obama obviously doesnt know his countrymens opinion very well

mattyrm wrote:I'm aware its clearly beneficial to him to distance the US from the UK for political reasons, but I care not at all.

How? You talk to the average American and ask thier opinion of the two and you get, "France? You mean those cheese eating surrendur monkeys?" and the UK, "Yeah they talk funny but they've got that Queen and they're pretty cool over all. Not like those damn Europeans."

Snuggling up to the French is a political mistake.

You could certainly make a case for France historically being the U.S.'s strongest ally. We've never been at war with France once, let alone twice, and our nation wouldn't exist as it does today without France's assistance.

Beyond that most this is just comprehension fail. It's just diplomat talk.

Other than the Franco-Prussian War and that hiccup in May 1940, the military record of France is exemplary.

Albatross wrote:Yes, yes, I know it's from the Daily Fail, but even so...

Even so what? C'mon man, that's like saying 'well I know it's Glenn Beck but just listen to this!', Daily Mail is a wellspring of hardline rightwing drivel, it's the Telegraph's thuggish henchman.

This article is slanted rubbish, let me show you how the words are bent out of shape.

Daily Mail wrote:Barack Obama has declared that France is America’s greatest ally, undermining Britain’s Special Relationship with the U.S.

Does not equal.

Daily Mail wrote:Mr Obama said: 'We don’t have a stronger friend and stronger ally than Nicolas Sarkozy, and the French people.'

And can be argued that Obama is saying 'we have several friends who are all strong friends and allies.

Daily Mail wrote:
The remarks, during a White House appearance with Mr Sarkozy, will reinforce the widely-held view in British diplomatic circles that Mr Obama has less interest in the Special Relationship than any other recent American leader.

So he gave high praise to the French leader during the French leader's visit... and this is news why?? Is the Daily Mail owned by Murdoch or one of his chums?

What 'special relationship'? That old chestnut is only brought up when a US president wants a UK backed military endeavour so that it can be labelled a US led international effort. The 'special relationship' only exists in the British media, it's not evident here in the US and certainly not evident in trade or financial relations over the last 50 years.
You realise during the 'special relationship' Thatcher was droning on about, banks in the US had collection boxes for the IRA 'freedom fighters', where the hell do you think the finances for the terrorists came from?!? Gerry Adams was dining in the White House every St Patrick's Day dinner for YEARS including the last Bush administration.

Daily Mail wrote:
The President risked offending British troops in Afghanistan by saying that French president Nicolas Sarkozy is a ‘stronger friend’ than David Cameron.

Where did he say that? I can't see those words quoted anywhere? This is an insinuation.

Daily Mail wrote:
The comments follow a pattern of coldness towards the UK. When Gordon Brown was prime minister, Mr Obama snubbed his requests for meetings in the U.S.

Brown, lumbering halfwit that he is, started that in his efforts to distance himself from the US and Blair's reputation as America's pet poodle. Brown then released the Lockerbie bomber and tried to blame that on the Scottish government which infuriated Obama. Then Cameron arrives and instead of denouncing BP, throws his support behind the company and snubs Obama. Just wtf would Obama's experience with those two clowns do to his relationship with either of them?

Daily Mail wrote:
He also denounced Britain during his inauguration speech.

WHERE? I just read that speech end to end, someone find that for me please?

Daily Mail wrote:
The UK has lost nearly 350 troops in the war against the Taliban – seven times as many as France.
And there are more than 10,000 British soldiers serving in Helmand province, compared with just 3,850 Frenchmen.
Mr Obama's stance was swiftly condemned in Westminster.
Tory MP Patrick Mercer, a former commander of the Sherwood Foresters regiment, said: 'I’m getting a bit fed up with the American President using terms like "best ally" so loosely.
'It’s Britain that has had more than 300 servicemen killed in Afghanistan, not France.
'That to my mind is a lot more powerful than any political gesture making.'

So the French President visits the White House, Obama says 'we have no stronger ally' to him and some right wing british hacks do a head count and says 'more of our guys are dead than theirs, so we are your strongest ally! You must mean to insult us when you praise him!!'
As for condemnation from Westminster?
Patrick fething Mercer?!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
The guy who said this:

wikipedia wrote:He was appointed to a newly created post of Shadow Minister for Homeland Security, a position which he was given in June 2003 by the then Leader of the Conservative Party, Iain Duncan Smith. He held this position until March 2007 when he was forced to resign over perceived racist comments.[1] He had used the term 'black bastards' to describe black soldiers.

Spoke in condemnation about a black president of a foreign nation, really what a bloody surprise... Also, he's a backbencher, not a minister, hardly Westminster condemnation is it...

Daily Mail wrote:
The remarks also angered conservatives in Washington.

You're just fething kidding me right? The conservatives criticised Obama... It's so unlikely to happen...daily...relentlessly...over every and anything he does...


That 'article' was seriously a most colossal pile of worthless half baked drivel and I cannot fathom why such a skewed piece of fiction was allowed into any newspaper, even the Daily (hate)Mail.

WarOne wrote:

Tyyr wrote:I think so, has a gnoll for his avatar. Only one I can remember though.

So is his name Gnollman?

I guess you're talking about me?

It's so funny to see people's reactions here! I mean really! We don't even have to do or say anything to irritate our British neighbors anymore, the US President does it for us That's brilliant

Seriously, I don't know a single person in France who cares about this kind of declaration. France being the US biggest ally? WTF? The whole world knows its UK, even us!
We don't give a feth at this pathetic kind of flattery. Or more precisely, we sadly know that the only French who's pleased about that is our president ( for obvious egotic reasons and because he feels supported for the G20-G8 presidency ).

Now, I'm not particularly eager to raise the banner of blood to defend France, but It's been too far, so:

Britain:


France:


Britain:


France:


Britain:

(ok! restecp for this one )

France:

Pierre Desproges...(unfortunately France's humor died with him twenty years ago)

I've got used to the French-surrending jokes since I regularly read the off-topic section, so I won't ask for explainations, but there is a thing which remains puzzling to me...
WHO THE FETH IS THIS MAN???AND WHO IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR US??? (not Jack Lang, former catastrophic minister of culture, the other one)

gorgon wrote:You could certainly make a case for France historically being the U.S.'s strongest ally. We've never been at war with France once, let alone twice, and our nation wouldn't exist as it does today without France's assistance.

Beyond that most this is just comprehension fail. It's just diplomat talk.

You're forgetting 1) the Quasi War which we, of course, won; and 2) our clandestine support of Mexico when it freed itself from French imperialism.

The French never burned down the white house. =)

Eh, it needed to be renovated. British interior decorators are just a bit more outspoken in their opinions.

I think MeanGreenStompa has won this thread. So much overreaction here.

Melissia wrote: So much overreaction here.

It's Internet ma chère...it's Internet...

@MGS - Erm... I thought I made it clear that my response to this story was less one of hurt feelings, and more questioning the wisdom of cosying up to France whilst potentially alienating a key ally? If it wasn't clear then apologies. I was more interested in the quote than the story. The quote is pretty explicit.

I mean, I'm happy that Obama and Sarkozy are best buds and everything, but you're talking about a French administration that is rounding up gypsies and banning the burkah. Again, is this a wise move?

I care not a fig for talk of 'The Special Relationship'. I've been arguing for some time now that we should be getting closer to India instead - it's clear that the relationship would have greater balance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'm not here to bash the French. They're alright by me.

KingCracker wrote:...you Brits will be #1 again

Behind China, Israel and Ireland, yeah number one.

Albatross wrote:I care not a fig for talk of 'The Special Relationship'. I've been arguing for some time now that we should be getting closer to India instead - it's clear that the relationship would have greater balance.

The four 'Cs' Cricket, chutney, curry and customer services..

I jest, I actually think it's a good idea.

Also I thought choo choo trains and char would be pushing it.

Hyenajoe wrote:

Melissia wrote: So much overreaction here.

It's Internet ma chère...it's Internet...

Hey, it's Gnollman!

*waves*

So...I do have to ask...how strong is wargaming culture in France?

George Spiggott wrote:

KingCracker wrote:...you Brits will be #1 again

Behind China, Israel and Ireland, yeah number one.

Right number 1, thats what Im saying
Can we even count China? I mean they kindda own America right now, wouldnt that be cheating?

KingCracker wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

KingCracker wrote:...you Brits will be #1 again

Behind China, Israel and Ireland, yeah number one.

Right number 1, thats what Im saying
Can we even count China? I mean they kindda own America right now, wouldnt that be cheating?

They only own America because America wants its iPads and iPods.

Albatross wrote:@MGS - Erm... I thought I made it clear that my response to this story was less one of hurt feelings, and more questioning the wisdom of cosying up to France whilst potentially alienating a key ally? If it wasn't clear then apologies. I was more interested in the quote than the story. The quote is pretty explicit.

I mean, I'm happy that Obama and Sarkozy are best buds and everything, but you're talking about a French administration that is rounding up gypsies and banning the burkah. Again, is this a wise move?

I care not a fig for talk of 'The Special Relationship'. I've been arguing for some time now that we should be getting closer to India instead - it's clear that the relationship would have greater balance.

And I didn't touch your response, just rubbished the article.

To add something here, I have 3 best friends. If I say to one 'I have no better friend than you' then I have not told him he's better than the other two, just that all of them are equal.

WarOne wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

KingCracker wrote:...you Brits will be #1 again

Behind China, Israel and Ireland, yeah number one.

Right number 1, thats what Im saying
Can we even count China? I mean they kindda own America right now, wouldnt that be cheating?

They only own America because America wants its iPads and iPods.

Well that much is true though, I want an iPad.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

To add something here, I have 3 best friends. If I say to one 'I have no better friend than you' then I have not told him he's better than the other two, just that all of them are equal.

What about all those people you list as friends on your userpage?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/user/profile/8742.page

Don't they count?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KingCracker wrote:

WarOne wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

KingCracker wrote:...you Brits will be #1 again

Behind China, Israel and Ireland, yeah number one.

Right number 1, thats what Im saying
Can we even count China? I mean they kindda own America right now, wouldnt that be cheating?

They only own America because America wants its iPads and iPods.

Well that much is true though, I want an iPad.

Now if they can only make an iPoop...

Hyenajoe wrote:

I've got used to the French-surrending jokes since I regularly read the off-topic section, so I won't ask for explainations, but there is a thing which remains puzzling to me...
WHO THE FETH IS THIS MAN???AND WHO IS HE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR US??? (not Jack Lang, former catastrophic minister of culture, the other one)

The man you inquire about is Jerry Lewis,there has been a long running joke about the French allegedly finding him fascinating...
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1349/do-the-french-really-love-jerry-lewis

...Incidentally,I should point out that I've nothing against the French...after all I am a native son of New Orleans.

Pashaw! The French are animals, just look at his avatar

FITZZ wrote:The man you inquire about is Jerry Lewis,there has been a long running joke about the French allegedly finding him fascinating...

Is that Jerry Lewis, the U.S. Representative for California's 41st Congressional District?

Okay, let's keep it on-topic . . . and polite. We have francophiles on staff here. (I'm speaking about moi, at least.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:Which is fine - I think our two countries are drifting apart anyway, certainly seeking new alliances. I think this is healthy.

I can't comment about it being healthy, but I would be very sad to see a more distant relationship between the US and the UK.

WarOne wrote:

FITZZ wrote:The man you inquire about is Jerry Lewis,there has been a long running joke about the French allegedly finding him fascinating...

Is that Jerry Lewis, the U.S. Representative for California's 41st Congressional District?

No...It's Jerry Lewis,the Actor/Comedian...Who's been raising money for children with MS for over 35 years...

http://www.answers.com/topic/jerry-lewis


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:Okay, let's keep it on-topic . . . and polite. We have francophiles on staff here. (I'm speaking about moi, at least.)


.

No offence intended Manchu...I'll stay on topic.

Je m'en fou.

Let me know how that works out when you need france to help you in a real war

It could be worse, he could start saying nice things about
the Quebec'ers. I give the English transplant in our gaming group a hard time, I remind him that as a student of history I know that I'm supposed to hate the English and love the French.

I'll take a "Menage et trois" over a "Prince Albert" any day.

R3con wrote:It could be worse, he could start saying nice things about
the Quebec'ers. I give the English transplant in our gaming group a hard time, I remind him that as a student of history I know that I'm supposed to hate the English and love the French.

You mean bail the french out.XD

mattyrm wrote:I firmly believe he did it on purpose. He could have said "France is one of our greatest allies" or something, but he didn't.

The man clearly dislikes the British, we have known this since he took office, and he has made no secret of it. its childish. There are 60 million people here, how CAN it be personal?

Wars are won with blood, and seven times as many British soldiers have died in Afghanistan than French. And don't even start me on Iraq!

I'm aware its clearly beneficial to him to distance the US from the UK for political reasons, but I care not at all.

We fought and died in two American led wars, the man's an insensitive gakker.

I shall inform the missus to vote republican next election and will suspend all future trips to visit the family!

I think the big part of his "dislike" of Britain has to do with his Grandfather. He was imprisoned for a short time (6 months) by the British, but apparently he came out quite the worse for wear.

But I think stuff like this just shows why I think he was such a bad choice for president. His political naivety and general inexperience. As time has gone on, it just looks more and more like he's in way over his head and really doesn't look like he knows what he's doing. But I guess that's what happen when you spent half of your meager time in politics campaigning and not actually doing your job.

I think the recent tax cut extension was a good example of his ability to govern (brokering compromise) even in a situation where if possible outcomes none seem good. The president is doing a fine job, IMO. I'm not so sure that he hates the UK.

Lint wrote:I'll take a "Menage et trois" over a "Prince Albert" any day.

Albert was German...

@MGS: insert Black Adder reference(s)

gorgon wrote:You could certainly make a case for France historically being the U.S.'s strongest ally. We've never been at war with France once, let alone twice, and our nation wouldn't exist as it does today without France's assistance.

Beyond that most this is just comprehension fail. It's just diplomat talk.

This.

Also, what Stompa said.

The quote in the title of this thread is a lie. Obama didn't say that. As Stompa said, if you have multiple strong, close friendships, then saying that you have "no stronger" friend than one of them is keeping them EQUAL, not putting one above another. The entire premise of the article is a false equivalency.

I'm just surprised no Americans on here has mentioned that they 'saved our asses in the war'. I guess I've been arguing with immature American teenagers on youtube for too long....

Wow, this is quite the over-reaction.

If the British are going to cry this much over so little a thing, maybe we should just pack up our toys and go over to France's house.

And, France is a way bigger ally than the UK. France has 260,558 square miles. The UK is only 94,060 square miles. They're almost 3 times your size!!!



Seriously, though, WTF? You expect Obama to give a speech to the French and say "You guys are pretty cool, but Britain is way more awesome. Sorry, but I'z gotz to keep it realz!"?

wouldn't Canada be the US's biggest ally? Its like really big eh!

I think it's just all round stupid to even openly mention that one ally is more important then the other.

Frazzled wrote:wouldn't Canada be the US's biggest ally? Its like really big eh!

Yeah, good point.



Can you even see the UK on that map?

Soladrin wrote:I think it's just all round stupid to even openly mention that one ally is more important then the other.

Yea but Canada's way bigger. Its like bigger than Western Europe eh!

What he said is that there's no ally stronger than France, but you know, what if, LE GASP! that means that instead of valuing France more or less than the UK, he values them both equally?

Sorry, I don't know what got into me.

Frazzled wrote:

Soladrin wrote:I think it's just all round stupid to even openly mention that one ally is more important then the other.

Yea but Canada's way bigger. Its like bigger than Western Europe eh!

But, wait, nothing is bigger than Texas. So, isn't Texas America's biggest ally?

Surely Russia is America's biggest ally?

I think I'm doing it wrong.

Grakmar wrote:

Frazzled wrote:wouldn't Canada be the US's biggest ally? Its like really big eh!

Yeah, good point.



Can you even see the UK on that map?

I'd explain how Mercator projections distort the size/shape of things as you get closer to the poles, and how Canada really isn't that large, but thats not the point of the thread.

I think Nobama is just venting because he and michelle didn't get an invite to the royal wedding.

Frazzled wrote:

Soladrin wrote:I think it's just all round stupid to even openly mention that one ally is more important then the other.

Yea but Canada's way bigger. Its like bigger than Western Europe eh!

Yeah, but there's no-one in Canada! No point being allies with a country where the population density is something like 1 person in every fifteen square miles. I have more spots on my back than that!

Grakmar wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Soladrin wrote:I think it's just all round stupid to even openly mention that one ally is more important then the other.

Yea but Canada's way bigger. Its like bigger than Western Europe eh!

But, wait, nothing is bigger than Texas. So, isn't Texas America's biggest ally?

Incorrect. America is Texas's biggest ally.

Slarg232 wrote:I would much rather have Britains army on my side over France's, because lets face it, the French don't really have an army.

Your forgetting France's best, most skilled fighting force!

The foreign legion!

Wait... their not French are they?

Edit: sorry if they've come up before, just posted from page one

He should'v named NK as their biggest ally, for poops and giggles.

You're all being silly.

In May last year Obama said this after Cameron's win in the election, "As I told the Prime Minister, the United States has no closer friend and ally than the United Kingdom , and I reiterated my deep and personal commitment to the special relationship between our two countries – a bond that has endured for generations and across party lines, and that is essential to the security and prosperity of our two countries, and the world."

It's a standard diplomatic phrase. Note that having 'no closer ally' doesn't mean someone else can't be equally close.

Slarg232 wrote:I would much rather have Britains army on my side over France's, because lets face it, the French don't really have an army.

People say stuff like this, without ever actually looking in to the military preparedness of the nation. France's military is spending is, almost to the dollar, on par with the UK.


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djones520 wrote:I think the big part of his "dislike" of Britain has to do with his Grandfather. He was imprisoned for a short time (6 months) by the British, but apparently he came out quite the worse for wear.

But I think stuff like this just shows why I think he was such a bad choice for president. His political naivety and general inexperience. As time has gone on, it just looks more and more like he's in way over his head and really doesn't look like he knows what he's doing. But I guess that's what happen when you spent half of your meager time in politics campaigning and not actually doing your job.

Oh for feth's sake.

'We don’t have a stronger friend and stronger ally than Nicolas Sarkozy, and the French people.

This reminds me of the dodge language you see in a lot of commercials.

"If this pill doesn't give you the ability of flight as quickly and completely as these overpriced competitors, we'll refund your money!"

Yeah, and 0 is equal to 0.

Honestly, I'd think Obama would consider France one of his worst enemies. I mean, who is more thoroughly proving the unsustainability of nationalized full coverage healthcare than France?

Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

WarOne wrote:

Hyenajoe wrote:It's Internet ma chère...it's Internet...

Hey, it's Gnollman!

*waves*

So...I do have to ask...how strong is wargaming culture in France?

Have you SEEN pictures from their Golden Daemon competitions?

Frazzled wrote:wouldn't Canada be the US's biggest ally? Its like really big eh!

Hat =/= ally

Phryxis wrote:Honestly, I'd think Obama would consider France one of his worst enemies. I mean, who is more thoroughly proving the unsustainability of nationalized full coverage healthcare than France?

France's healthcare isn't totally nationalised; it's not like the NHS which funds all of your treatment, it's more like a refund system.

You pay it yourself then go through a long, bureaucratic struggle to get it back. Most of the time, not even all of it.

So it's more of a subsidisation system than a proper NHS.

To be fair Sebster, most people have their tongue firmly in their cheek when they are saying silly things about the French. Pretty much 90% of the time.

I mean, it is extremely common knowledge in the UK that the French spend as much as the UK militarily, because the right wing press never stop going on about it! Its all "France has a bigger navy and WE are an island" and "France has more tanks for the first time in a century" and well.. it goes on and on and on ad infintum.

I think thats why so many people have me unfairly pegged here, you cant tell when someone is taking the piss via a forum.

No, i dont really think Obama hates us all, yes the right wing tabloids in the UK talk gak, and yes of course i am not telling my missus to vote Republican and refusing to go back to California, its merely part of the craic see!

But seriously, the French are a bunch of garlic munching surrender monkeys who would give up on any war as soon as their troops passed a brothel.

And the Italians would change sides, again.

lol Matt, nice.

To be fair, our miitary isn't all that impressive anymore and will continue to become less so with all the spending cuts.

We have impressive (?!?!) figures of troops dying in foreign wars simply because we're the only country stupid enough to keep sending our guys out there.

WarOne wrote:

Hyenajoe wrote:

Melissia wrote: So much overreaction here.

It's Internet ma chère...it's Internet...

Hey, it's Gnollman!

*waves*

So...I do have to ask...how strong is wargaming culture in France?

@WarOne: Quite strong, but we lack of gaming events (there's not many, apart from the Games Day).

On topic:
Some years ago, the kind of declaration Obama made would have been highly reported and commented in French medias, with harsh debates about being pro-american or not, etc...
Now, there's been very few reports about this declaration and almost no reaction. There are more subjects of preoccupations with Africa, Al Qaeda, and things such as the growth of extreme right party in our political landscape.
2011 might not be a good year in France, and 2012 could be even worse.

Who helped the US gain independence? France.
Who sold the US a huge chunk of land? France.
Who made rolling over half of Europe under the command of a power hungry nutjob until he got stomped in Russia cool? France.
And most importantly, who takes in the people too crazy for Hollywood? France.

Hyenajoe wrote:Some years ago, the kind of declaration Obama made would have been highly reported and commented in French medias, with harsh debates about being pro-american or not, etc...
Now, there's been very few reports about this declaration and almost no reaction. There are more subjects of preoccupations with Africa, Al Qaeda, and things such as the growth of extreme right party in our political landscape.
2011 might not be a good year in France, and 2012 could be even worse.

Sure it is not just because all your news people are on strike?

And regards the UK/US buddy system - I would be quite happy for the UK to take a few steps back and get its house in order rather than keep following the US around and always leaving messages on its answer phone asking why it never calls unless it wants something.

Ditto.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Hyenajoe wrote:Some years ago, the kind of declaration Obama made would have been highly reported and commented in French medias, with harsh debates about being pro-american or not, etc...
Now, there's been very few reports about this declaration and almost no reaction. There are more subjects of preoccupations with Africa, Al Qaeda, and things such as the growth of extreme right party in our political landscape.
2011 might not be a good year in France, and 2012 could be even worse.

Sure it is not just because all your news people are on strike?

Sure! This strike is not planned until Friday!

Well, the French do make the best flags; though they're typically white.

Mon Dieu! can no one get over the 'cheese eating surrender monkies thing' from the Simpsons?

Olympia is right:
Other than the Franco-Prussian War and that hiccup in May 1940, the military record of France is exemplary.

"...and a certain unconscious brutality of hurry and gesture in the men is related to their inexhaustible and extraordinary military courage. (…) Let a fool hate France." - G.K. Chesterton

"The French soldiers are grand. They are grand. There is no other word to express it." - Arthur Conan Doyle, A visit to three fronts (1916)

"Their business is war, and they do their business." - R. Kipling, France at war (1915)

KingCracker wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:

KingCracker wrote:...you Brits will be #1 again

Behind China, Israel and Ireland, yeah number one.

Right number 1, thats what Im saying
Can we even count China? I mean they kindda own America right now, wouldnt that be cheating?

Ireland? - What with our massive armies (mostly middle eastern conscripts as the natives are too lazy?) , multi-million euro stealth boat and most over paid politicians? The only thing Ireland has going for it is its lack of road signs and transport infrastructure. An invaiding army wouldn't be able to mobilise or find its way anywhere, meanwhile we'd strike from the trees in the hours of darkness like banshees and hordes of rabid leprechauns. Even in WW2 if the Germans had invaided I believe the plan was to let them in, preserving infrastructure and then wage guerilla war on them.

I'm just surprised no Americans on here has mentioned that they 'saved our asses in the war'. I guess I've been arguing with immature American teenagers on youtube for too long....

You mean going in right at the end despite Britian holding out for 3 years on her own?

Phototoxin wrote:

I'm just surprised no Americans on here has mentioned that they 'saved our asses in the war'. I guess I've been arguing with immature American teenagers on youtube for too long....

You mean going in right at the end despite Britian holding out for 3 years on her own?

I've actually been told that by a couple of yanks in ventrillo playing EQ2, I calmly told them I was very thankful to Uncle Joe Stalin, because it really was Russia who broke the Nazi's backs in WW2 and 20million dead is a fairly terrifying number.

However, us bringing that tired old conversation and the British irritation at the lend-lease system and the old jokes about America's late joining of the conflict ignores a very pertinent fact, they did join the conflict and they lost many soldiers in it.

It is disrespectful to those, living and dead, of the United States armed forces, and the loved ones they left behind, to insinuate that their contribution as human beings was any less in those terrible times.

Now lets leave that bit well alone and get back to the terrible journalism of the Daily Mail misquoting a president over a standard diplomatic phrase...

The did well and were instrumental, but as you mention at the expense of glossing over the Russians, brits, poles czechs and other peoples who fought resisted and died long before any US involvement.

Phototoxin wrote:The did well and were instrumental, but as you mention at the expense of glossing over the Russians, brits, poles czechs and other peoples who fought resisted and died long before any US involvement.

That a nation would espouse it's own losses and contribution in it's remembrance of a conflict it was involved with is a very natural thing and entirely understandable. I don't think it's a glossing over but instead a concentration of attention that leads those who did not participate due to age etc and are not educated in the events of that time to make flippant comment.

And again, as I just posted, to insinuate the US loses were minor and that those individuals contributions were any the less is highly disrespectful in my opinion. I hear that 'dunno wot them yanks is paradin for, they just showed up at the end' touted on occasion in the UK and it's as puerile and insulting as 'we saved your azz in dubyadubya2!'.

Again, could we just drop this part of the conversation, it seems a deviation from the thread to me and isn't likely to end up in anything other than hostile reactions from Americans and Brits getting defensive about their part in the war.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:

I'm just surprised no Americans on here has mentioned that they 'saved our asses in the war'. I guess I've been arguing with immature American teenagers on youtube for too long....

You mean going in right at the end despite Britian holding out for 3 years on her own?

I've actually been told that by a couple of yanks in ventrillo playing EQ2, I calmly told them I was very thankful to Uncle Joe Stalin, because it really was Russia who broke the Nazi's backs in WW2 and 20million dead is a fairly terrifying number.

However, us bringing that tired old conversation and the British irritation at the lend-lease system and the old jokes about America's late joining of the conflict ignores a very pertinent fact, they did join the conflict and they lost many soldiers in it.

It is disrespectful to those, living and dead, of the United States armed forces, and the loved ones they left behind, to insinuate that their contribution as human beings was any less in those terrible times.

Now lets leave that bit well alone and get back to the terrible journalism of the Daily Mail misquoting a president over a standard diplomatic phrase...

The difficulty with that argument of course is that without US merchant and convy ships Britain would have starved.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It is disrespectful to those, living and dead, of the United States armed forces, and the loved ones they left behind, to insinuate that their contribution as human beings was any less in those terrible times.

Hear, hear!

Oh the Daily Mail, how I try my hardest not to laugh at the regular customers who buy it.

"This is my kind of paper lad, no Sun or Star for me."

Hey maybe he's into wife swapping.



vs.



who can blame him.

I'm still shocked that he keeps shoving the Israelis away. They need all the help they can get. I think that little Jewish country has shown for the past half-century that they are the last people on this planet you want to piss off!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:However, us bringing that tired old conversation and the British irritation at the lend-lease system and the old jokes about America's late joining of the conflict ignores a very pertinent fact, they did join the conflict and they lost many soldiers in it.

It's also important to remember US involvement saved Europe from being steamrolled by the Soviets. And that Fascism was only properly defeated when the US gave the world the Marshall Plan, and gave people productive lives.

It is disrespectful to those, living and dead, of the United States armed forces, and the loved ones they left behind, to insinuate that their contribution as human beings was any less in those terrible times.

Absolutely, but it's very important to realise that the men who served under any country are not diminished by pointing out the efforts of those of other countries. And at the end of the day, no-one is served by choosing reverence over honesty, and so it really needs to said, the Soviets, with their horrifically brutal but absolute dedication to complete and total war, inflicted the more than 80% of the total German casualties during the war.


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mattyrm wrote: To be fair Sebster, most people have their tongue firmly in their cheek when they are saying silly things about the French. Pretty much 90% of the time.

True, I didn't mean to call all the folk who've been joking about this silly. Well, they were being silly as well, but in a deliberate and pretty funny way. I was talking about the folk that were getting outraged over Obama's use of very typical diplomatic language, and there were more than a couple who did it.

I mean, it is extremely common knowledge in the UK that the French spend as much as the UK militarily, because the right wing press never stop going on about it! Its all "France has a bigger navy and WE are an island" and "France has more tanks for the first time in a century" and well.. it goes on and on and on ad infintum.

Yeah, although as you've pointed out before and I've agreed, there is a difference between having capability, and I'd argue France actually has greater force projection capability than the UK, and the will to actually use it in a constructive manner. As Afghanistan shows, the UK is far more willing to risk its soldiers to get something done.

I think thats why so many people have me unfairly pegged here, you cant tell when someone is taking the piss via a forum.

I figure you're likely joking unless you're talking about Arabs

Grakmar wrote:Wow, this is quite the over-reaction.

If the British are going to cry this much over so little a thing, maybe we should just pack up our toys and go over to France's house.

And, France is a way bigger ally than the UK. France has 260,558 square miles. The UK is only 94,060 square miles. They're almost 3 times your size!!!



Seriously, though, WTF? You expect Obama to give a speech to the French and say "You guys are pretty cool, but Britain is way more awesome. Sorry, but I'z gotz to keep it realz!"?

yeah, but landmass doesn't really matter, unless Mr Obama is wanting to find out how many missile defence systems he can put in a country without it's population getting a bit suspicious...


when he said a 'bigger ally' he probabely meant how close they are and how much they own both defence-wise and production-wise.

The land mass thing was a joke...

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

Maybe you should do some research before you say silly things? Ireland has a dual public/private system somewhat similar to the US, and it's collapse financially really has nothing to do with the health system at all- the entire health budget is a tiny drop in the bucket of debt that came about through government incompetence and light touch regulation.
I haven't looked into Iceland or Greece's health systems, but I can tell you that the health system hasn't been mentioned in a single report I've read on their respective crashes. Meanwhile, the UK with nationalised health chugs along, with debt issues yes, but it mostly functions (and is also involved in a couple of stupidly expensive wars).

Statements like that are dumb, and they make you look dumb. Don't make yourself look dumb, do some research before you spout off rubbish to support your domestic political stances on an international forum.
(And hey, don't feel too bad, you should take this positively- I've been educated thoroughly on a diverse range of topics by saying dumb things about america over the years.)

at first read it didn't look like he was joking much, but oh well...


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Da Boss wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

Meanwhile, the UK with nationalised health chugs along, with debt issues yes, but it mostly functions (and is also involved in a couple of stupidly expensive wars).

you forgot to mention the incredibly long waiting line in A&E . i had to wait for 6 hours in cardiff university hospital's waiting room because all i did was twist my arm a bit.

i heard private hospitals are pretty good when it comes to appointments or emergencies, of course though if you are accident prone you might lose quite a bit of money.

Meh, it's worse in Ireland and we're not even fully public. You guys don't know how good ye have it with the NHS, it's the awesome.

dark6spectre wrote:at first read it didn't look like he was joking much, but oh well...


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Da Boss wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

Meanwhile, the UK with nationalised health chugs along, with debt issues yes, but it mostly functions (and is also involved in a couple of stupidly expensive wars).

you forgot to mention the incredibly long waiting line in A&E . i had to wait for 6 hours in cardiff university hospital's waiting room because all i did was twist my arm a bit.

i heard private hospitals are pretty good when it comes to appointments or emergencies, of course though if you are accident prone you might lose quite a bit of money.

Private hospitals in the UK are crap at emergencies. They just aren't set up for it.

dark6spectre wrote:at first read it didn't look like he was joking much, but oh well...

This is exactly why France is a much better ally than Britain.

Americans love sarcasm and irony. British people don't understand something isn't serious unless it's said by a man wearing a dress. It leads to all sorts of confusion and hurt feelings.

(Oh, and picture me wearing a dress while I say this)

dark6spectre wrote:

Da Boss wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

Meanwhile, the UK with nationalised health chugs along, with debt issues yes, but it mostly functions (and is also involved in a couple of stupidly expensive wars).

you forgot to mention the incredibly long waiting line in A&E . i had to wait for 6 hours in cardiff university hospital's waiting room because all i did was twist my arm a bit.

i heard private hospitals are pretty good when it comes to appointments or emergencies, of course though if you are accident prone you might lose quite a bit of money.

And my grandmother, suffering with heart and blood pressure issues, is treated very quickly and with expert care. If you twisted your arm and attended any hospital, state or private, that did not contain the same number of medical personal as it contained patients at any given time, then you'd have to wait.

Isn't that fairly bloody obvious?

Grakmar wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:at first read it didn't look like he was joking much, but oh well...

This is exactly why France is a much better ally than Britain.

Americans love sarcasm and irony. British people don't understand something isn't serious unless it's said by a man wearing a dress. It leads to all sorts of confusion and hurt feelings.

(Oh, and picture me wearing a dress while I say this)

or its just as said previously you can't hint any sarcy through text, unless it hints it afterwards, or its so extreme they can't be seriously.

'Americans love sarcasm and irony'- "This suite is black.... NAAART!"

Grakmar wrote:
Americans love sarcasm and irony.

Oh, he's right I'm afraid, the Americans are world famous for their understated and subtle humour, we brits are only known for our crass and bland slapstick.

Like this buffoon:


If only we had more like this brave young chappie!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:

Da Boss wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

Meanwhile, the UK with nationalised health chugs along, with debt issues yes, but it mostly functions (and is also involved in a couple of stupidly expensive wars).

you forgot to mention the incredibly long waiting line in A&E . i had to wait for 6 hours in cardiff university hospital's waiting room because all i did was twist my arm a bit.

i heard private hospitals are pretty good when it comes to appointments or emergencies, of course though if you are accident prone you might lose quite a bit of money.

And my grandmother, suffering with heart and blood pressure issues, is treated very quickly and with expert care. If you twisted your arm and attended any hospital, state or private, that did not contain the same number of medical personal as it contained patients at any given time, then you'd have to wait.

Isn't that fairly bloody obvious?

I'm just hoping that somewhere in the world there is a hospital where if you come in with a broken thumb, they see you, and immediately drag you to a room where its a 2 minute job then out the door 5 minutes after arriving.

(ofcourse i would not like this if it was during school time. i hope the waiting list goes on for weeks and the advice given is to stay home until then... )

dark6spectre wrote:
or its just as said previously you can't hint any sarcy through text, unless it hints it afterwards, or its so extreme they can't be seriously.

This is not a sentence.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:
or its just as said previously you can't hint any sarcy through text, unless it hints it afterwards, or its so extreme they can't be seriously.

This is not a sentence.

apologies
Or its just, as said sometime previously, that you can't hint any sarcasm through forums, unless it hints it afterwards, or its so extreme they can't be seriously.

actually forget it i think i'm making it worse for myself

Grakmar wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:at first read it didn't look like he was joking much, but oh well...

This is exactly why France is a much better ally than Britain.

Americans love sarcasm and irony. British people don't understand something isn't serious unless it's said by a man wearing a dress. It leads to all sorts of confusion and hurt feelings.

(Oh, and picture me wearing a dress while I say this)

Hmmmmm!!

really? i was picturing him more like this:




scarred for life...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It is disrespectful to those, living and dead, of the United States armed forces, and the loved ones they left behind, to insinuate that their contribution as human beings was any less in those terrible times.

I wholeheartedly agree - and from your own statement, can you see why the UK may get upset when their contribution to a current, on-going conflict is seemingly washed over, and those dead soldiers are barely even cold? And let's face it, Afghanistan was America's war in the first place.

But yeah let's face it, this is the Daily Mail and every Brit should be accustomed to their sensationalist crap.

Although, the other anti-Anglo stuff going on, someone tell that bint Clinton to keep her fething mouth out of The Falklands

Something we have that the French don't: Menwith Hill.

Wow, four pages and nobody gets the real reason?

Obabma is just pissed that his Dark Angels aren't next up for a makover...

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

Da Boss wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Ireland, Iceland and/or Greece?

Meanwhile, the UK with nationalised health chugs along, with debt issues yes, but it mostly functions (and is also involved in a couple of stupidly expensive wars).

you forgot to mention the incredibly long waiting line in A&E . i had to wait for 6 hours in cardiff university hospital's waiting room because all i did was twist my arm a bit.

i heard private hospitals are pretty good when it comes to appointments or emergencies, of course though if you are accident prone you might lose quite a bit of money.

You would wait longer than this in some hospitals in the US. Again, depending on the staffing available at that moment and what other people were in the ER. I've waited this long.

Just wanted to chime in that my earlier listing of the 3 countries was in no way researched, or was meant to be a hyper-partisan thing. It was meant as a joke.

And I'm in favor of national healthcare.

vitki wrote:Wow, four pages and nobody gets the real reason?

Obabma is just pissed that his Dark Angels aren't next up for a makover...

What are you talking about? We all know Big P fields a Tzeentch Army!

In all seriousness though, it's a statement that one figure head of a large and complex government said. Maybe he was trying to score some brownie points with the French.

Ulver wrote:I wholeheartedly agree - and from your own statement, can you see why the UK may get upset when their contribution to a current, on-going conflict is seemingly washed over, and those dead soldiers are barely even cold? And let's face it, Afghanistan was America's war in the first place.

But it wasn't washed over. Are the British so precious that they need to be mentioned in every possible meeting between the US and any other country... lest the troops be offended?

WarOne wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:I would much rather have Britains army on my side over France's, because lets face it, the French don't really have an army.

They have nukes...Don't forget the nukes.

And they have the Maginot Line! And the Atlantic Wall!

'Cause those were all defensive bastions that saved the French nation and thus forever saved the world!

Only thing i like about the french is what they did to the cooking industry

A little too much against the French without good reason, as the only thing they did was getting a nod from Obama.

A nod? Rather a stock-standard diplomatic phrase.

Yes, that. Which was a bit blown out of proportion. Didn't Patton make a similar mistake?

Most likely a political tactic, I mean with the French Prime Minister there it seems like a good way to get on his good side. The other thing to is that he might not have been implying it in the sense of war time as an ally, perhaps in another sense of politics or what not, because I don't think he's that dumb to suggest that the French have contributed more to the wars than the Brits. Perhaps it was just a spur of the moment thing.

This all said though, I don't agree with the President here (whether it was a political ploy or him speaking his mind) and I'm definitely one to say the Brits have always been our best allies.

I see no value in France as a "best bud". We have so little in common with their people or culture. The young folks are very unhappy about us visiting their country, but the older folks are at least tolerant of our silly American ways.

Britain, on the other had, is basically USA's older brother. the only difference, and this is a big one, are blood sausages.

Seriously my Brit friends, what the hell is a blood sausage and why would you eat it?

It would be hard for me to imagine a world where our two countries are not friendly. Besides that, you guys have GW in your yard. I kinda have to like you

Cheers

The Kilted Samurai wrote:Most likely a political tactic,

No, it's not a tactic of any sort. It's just standard diplomatic piffle.

The other thing to is that he might not have been implying it in the sense of war time as an ally, perhaps in another sense of politics or what not, because I don't think he's that dumb to suggest that the French have contributed more to the wars than the Brits.

He didn't say the French have contributed more. He said no-one is closer... which means that any number of countries can be just as close. In fact, it absolutely means that when, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, he used the exact same phrasing in his speech about the British in the first half of 2010.

Perhaps it was just a spur of the moment thing.

Speeches given to the media while both leaders are present are not spur of the moment things.

This all said though, I don't agree with the President here (whether it was a political ploy or him speaking his mind) and I'm definitely one to say the Brits have always been our best allies.

Except when you were at war with each other, possibly.


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paulguise wrote:I see no value in France as a "best bud". We have so little in common with their people or culture.

I'm guessing you don't travel much? Seriously, if you think there's anything particularly alien about French culture then I'd hate to see you exposed to, say, the Chinese.

sebster wrote:

paulguise wrote:I see no value in France as a "best bud". We have so little in common with their people or culture.

I'm guessing you don't travel much? Seriously, if you think there's anything particularly alien about French culture then I'd hate to see you exposed to, say, the Chinese.

I think there are many subtle differences between the two, which add up to a gap. The few french people I have had business dealings with were not pleasant experiences. And no, I have not travelled very much overseas, much as I would like to. I have only popped around my little continent (Canada some and Mexico down to the southern gulf). If I ever have cause or opportunity to go to France, I am sure I will meet some very nice folks and change my opinon of them. For now, though, I have only the few French folks I have met to base my opinion on.

sebster wrote:

This all said though, I don't agree with the President here (whether it was a political ploy or him speaking his mind) and I'm definitely one to say the Brits have always been our best allies.

Except when you were at war with each other, possibly.
.

Gee wiz, really? We were at war with them at some point? Never knew that! Golly!

paulguise wrote:I think there are many subtle differences between the two, which add up to a gap. The few french people I have had business dealings with were not pleasant experiences.

Thing is, the people most complained about here for being unpleasant to deal with are Americans. I don't share that opinion, and would argue the opposite, but it's certainly the most commonly complained about group.

But despite that, there's no doubting Australian and US culture is very similar, and based on the same set assumptions and goals. We're both liberal democracies with an economic system built around an aspirational, capitalist model. And so is France.

Compare this to the economic and political systems in countries such as Saudi Arabia or China...

And no, I have not travelled very much overseas, much as I would like to. I have only popped around my little continent (Canada some and Mexico down to the southern gulf). If I ever have cause or opportunity to go to France, I am sure I will meet some very nice folks and change my opinon of them. For now, though, I have only the few French folks I have met to base my opinion on.

Honestly, a significant proportion of the French really are jerks, at least they are to tourists. It's just that liking individuals really doesn't have much to do with whether two nations overall goals are broadly aligned or not.

Still, I recommend going to France. Versailles is lovely.


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The Kilted Samurai wrote:Gee wiz, really? We were at war with them at some point? Never knew that! Golly!

sebster wrote:

The Kilted Samurai wrote:Gee wiz, really? We were at war with them at some point? Never knew that! Golly!

Cheers bro lol

sebster wrote:Honestly, a significant proportion of the French really are jerks, at least they are to tourists.

I'd say that this would be a problem everywhere, not only France.

Still, that is beyond what's happening in this thread. Some stereotypes are rather harmless (a french girl once asked me if it was true we eat codfish from breakfast 'till dinner), but some of the stuff here is downright mean, ridiculous and/or prejudiced. Like what happened when Russia and Quatar won the bid for holding the World Cup. I wonder how the same posters would react at the misinformed opinions people around the world have over their country. And while some may say they don't care, it's still a rude thing to say.

No-one's talking about what I wanted them to, which was 'is sucking up to France (and Sarkozy in particular) a wise move on Obama's part'?

I think a lot of Americans are still kind of butthurt that France would not assist with Iraq War 2: Electric Bugaloo.

Me, I feel differently. I feel like, you know, you're in a bar with your buds, and maybe you had a few. You're gonna go hit on some chick, and you ask one of your friend to be your wingman. He's all like oh man, don't do it. You'll regret it. You're like man, shut up, that chick is hot. Next thing you know, it's 8 years later it's a terrible relationship - all you do is fight and she opened some joint credit cards in your name and is cleaning you out. You're kinda pissed still that your friend wouldn't be your wingman. But, you know... get over it. Cause your friend was right.

And your friend has always been there for you. Remember back in college, when you dropped out? Who was there for you, holding your head out of the toilet as you vomited? Your friend. Who let you crash on their couch? Who got you that job? Your friend. Who bought you that giant "you're awesome!" statue you keep in the front yard that everyone loves? Your friend.

So, you know, let it go already.

I for one welcome our new Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkey, Rifle Dropping Poodle Walker Overlords.

Albatross wrote:No-one's talking about what I wanted them to, which was 'is sucking up to France (and Sarkozy in particular) a wise move on Obama's part'?

Let me make it short for you my good friend and much-loved cousin across the sea Alby, as apparently the longer posts didn't sink in:

He didn't suck up to France.

He wasn't sucking up to Britain when he said the exact same thing about you guys less than a year ago.

Now stop reading the Daily Mail before it damages your brain any further.

Ouze wrote:I think a lot of Americans are still kind of butthurt that France would not assist with Iraq War 2: Electric Bugaloo.

Me, I feel differently. I feel like, you know, you're in a bar with your buds, and maybe you had a few. You're gonna go hit on some chick, and you ask one of your friend to be your wingman. He's all like oh man, don't do it. You'll regret it. You're like man, shut up, that chick is hot. Next thing you know, it's 8 years later it's a terrible relationship - all you do is fight and she opened some joint credit cards in your name and is cleaning you out. You're kinda pissed still that your friend wouldn't be your wingman. But, you know... get over it. Cause your friend was right.

And your friend has always been there for you. Remember back in college, when you dropped out? Who was there for you, holding your head out of the toilet as you vomited? Your friend. Who let you crash on their couch? Who got you that job? Your friend. Who bought you that giant "you're awesome!" statue you keep in the front yard that everyone loves? Your friend.

So, you know, let it go already.

Ouze wrote:I think a lot of Americans are still kind of butthurt that France would not assist with Iraq War 2: Electric Bugaloo.

Me, I feel differently. I feel like, you know, you're in a bar with your buds, and maybe you had a few. You're gonna go hit on some chick, and you ask one of your friend to be your wingman. He's all like oh man, don't do it. You'll regret it. You're like man, shut up, that chick is hot. Next thing you know, it's 8 years later it's a terrible relationship - all you do is fight and she opened some joint credit cards in your name and is cleaning you out. You're kinda pissed still that your friend wouldn't be your wingman. But, you know... get over it. Cause your friend was right.

And your friend has always been there for you. Remember back in college, when you dropped out? Who was there for you, holding your head out of the toilet as you vomited? Your friend. Who let you crash on their couch? Who got you that job? Your friend. Who bought you that giant "you're awesome!" statue you keep in the front yard that everyone loves? Your friend.

So, you know, let it go already.

Agreed, I think there is a lot of necessary hate towards the French and unwarranted more than anything. Most people I know who say they hate French usually can't give me a clear reason why they hate them whenever I ask so I don't get it. I've met a few French exchange student at my University and so far all of them have been pleasant people who seem to like America so what's the big deal?

Destrado wrote:I'd say that this would be a problem everywhere, not only France.

Not in my experience. I haven't been everywhere, but normally people are happy to help out a tourist. Not so much in France, from my experience. Still, that doesn't make them bad people, and it certainly doesn't mean they have a huge cultural difference.

Still, that is beyond what's happening in this thread. Some stereotypes are rather harmless (a french girl once asked me if it was true we eat codfish from breakfast 'till dinner), but some of the stuff here is downright mean, ridiculous and/or prejudiced. Like what happened when Russia and Quatar won the bid for holding the World Cup. I wonder how the same posters would react at the misinformed opinions people around the world have over their country. And while some may say they don't care, it's still a rude thing to say.

I'm kind of hoping most of it was jokes. Hoping.


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Albatross wrote:No-one's talking about what I wanted them to, which was 'is sucking up to France (and Sarkozy in particular) a wise move on Obama's part'?

No-one is talking about that because it's a made up thing. He isn't sucking up the French, he used a typical diplomatic line, the same phrase he used when he was in the UK early last year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:I think a lot of Americans are still kind of butthurt that France would not assist with Iraq War 2: Electric Bugaloo.

Me, I feel differently. I feel like, you know, you're in a bar with your buds, and maybe you had a few. You're gonna go hit on some chick, and you ask one of your friend to be your wingman. He's all like oh man, don't do it. You'll regret it. You're like man, shut up, that chick is hot. Next thing you know, it's 8 years later it's a terrible relationship - all you do is fight and she opened some joint credit cards in your name and is cleaning you out. You're kinda pissed still that your friend wouldn't be your wingman. But, you know... get over it. Cause your friend was right.

And your friend has always been there for you. Remember back in college, when you dropped out? Who was there for you, holding your head out of the toilet as you vomited? Your friend. Who let you crash on their couch? Who got you that job? Your friend. Who bought you that giant "you're awesome!" statue you keep in the front yard that everyone loves? Your friend.

So, you know, let it go already.

This is just a beautiful, beautiful thing.

sebster wrote:

Ulver wrote:I wholeheartedly agree - and from your own statement, can you see why the UK may get upset when their contribution to a current, on-going conflict is seemingly washed over, and those dead soldiers are barely even cold? And let's face it, Afghanistan was America's war in the first place.

But it wasn't washed over. Are the British so precious that they need to be mentioned in every possible meeting between the US and any other country... lest the troops be offended?

Yes!

We demand it!

Okay, okay! Just stop making that angry face! I can see your teeth!

JOKE!

paulguise wrote:Britain, on the other had, is basically USA's older brother. the only difference, and this is a big one, are blood sausages.

It's called Black Pudding, my friend, and it is FTW.

I've had some really good friends who were french, but then I went to france a hoo-boy, there are a few issues, alright. In Ireland, we try and be pretty nice to tourists, for a lot of reasons. In france, that was not my experience. Older folk in the countryside were nice, but the younger people? Uh no. Got chased by a group of teenagers with a machete.
Parisians are thought of as rude by the french themselves, but holy god are they rude to foreigners. That said, these threads always go OTT with french bashing, not cool.

It would be a fairly understandable reaction if you'd been chased by machete-wielding gyppos, to be fair! After all, there ARE plenty of other countries to go where the people are friendly to tourists.

Want to meet nice people? Go to Germany, Germans are nice, oh yes they are, not sarcasm. When we were in Paris and asked for directions, we got sent the wrong direction every single time, as if it is some sort of secret sport.

BrookM wrote:Want to meet nice people? Go to Germany, Germans are nice, oh yes they are, not sarcasm.

All of the Germans I've ever met have been an absolute delight. Actually the same is largely true of the Dutch I've met, though I found them slightly more acerbic, and a LOT less reserved!

That comes with living below the sea level and in bogs I'm afraid.

I went on a business trip to Amsterdam and made a Warhammer man-date online for a side activity during the trip. Got a 1k pt WH game in using my Wood Elves, hung out and grabbed a doner kebab. Was a good time!

Mannahnin wrote:I went on a business trip to Amsterdam and made a Warhammer man-date online for a side activity during the trip. Got a 1k pt WH game in using my Wood Elves, hung out and grabbed a doner kebab. Was a good time!

You were in Amsterdam and the first thing you thought to do was to play Warhammer?

You, sir, win the biggest nerd of the month award!

Congrats!

Admittedly, that was my second trip there, having been there previously as part of my honeymoon. The honeymoon activities were significantly more debauched and there was no Warhammer on that trip.

When I went for work I knew I couldn't really get up to much funny business, so I made a Warhammer date on warhammer.org.uk and brought a case of figures.

When i went to Amsterdam i got leathered off Heineken and ate a half pound of space cake before somehow snaping the pipe off the gakker and then was awoken by burly men hammering on our door several hours later.

My first step towards the door left me with a damp foot, the second a wet shin and the third made me realise that the room was under about 4 feet of water.

Your weekend sounds far better than mine was.

That is an awesome story, though, Matty!

The Heineken in the 'dam is much better than the crap they export to my country. I've had more than a couple of those as well.

Your adventure sounds more dramatic than my chemical adventures in the city. Mine were mostly embarassing/funny.

Frankly the UK will always be the best regarded country by most of the US, if only because we are all unwilling to learn any other language, and you lot (sorta) speak the same as us. That said, during all my travels and travails throughout Europe, it was really only in Paris where i felt actively disliked. Marseilles and Nice were both pretty ... nice ; although Bavarians and the folk of Barcelona still get highest marks. And on a side note, damn you Australia, damn you. How dare you keep all the Aussie girls that far away? We need to relocate yer country to somewhere much more convenient. Just drop it like 10 miles off the coast of California. Much better flight times.

BrookM wrote:Want to meet nice people? Go to Germany, Germans are nice, oh yes they are, not sarcasm. When we were in Paris and asked for directions, we got sent the wrong direction every single time, as if it is some sort of secret sport.

Paris is a city in which there are no wrong places to go to.

This is one of the secrets of happy traveling. Try to make a plan which doesn't require you to be certain places; at least not at certain times. One of the best times my wife and I ever had in a beautiful city was just wandering around Vienna at random in the Summer.

Mannahnin wrote:

Albatross wrote:No-one's talking about what I wanted them to, which was 'is sucking up to France (and Sarkozy in particular) a wise move on Obama's part'?

Let me make it short for you my good friend and much-loved cousin across the sea Alby, as apparently the longer posts didn't sink in:

He didn't suck up to France.

He wasn't sucking up to Britain when he said the exact same thing about you guys less than a year ago.

Now stop reading the Daily Mail before it damages your brain any further.

I don't read the Daily Mail, I found the article online after hearing about this 'incident'. I mostly read Mojo and The Economist.

Couldn't one make the argument that saying 'we have no greater friend and ally than France' unfairly elevates them in terms of military alliance, as their contribution to ISAF is pretty meagre compared to Britain's, and they are just as much at risk from terrorism as us? I mean, that's not exactly a great leap. Granted, the rest of the extrapolations in the article are speculative to say the least, but he said what he said and was quoted. France's military alliance with the US is not equal to ours, to imply that is is a little insulting. But as I said before, it's no biggie and I'm not upset about it. It's more interesting to me that it looks like he's trying to ingratiate himself with Sarkozy, which is odd thing to do, because he's rounding up gypsies and banning items of clothing. Not to mention the fact that he's wildly unpopular. It almost seems like they're trying to prop each other up. They're both in a bit of a bind domestically, after all.

And, since I'm your 'good friend and much-loved cousin across the sea', do you think you could oblige me by not talking to me like I'm a fething imbecile? Thanks ever so.

Albatross wrote:
Couldn't one make the argument that saying 'we have no greater friend and ally than France' unfairly elevates them in terms of military alliance, as their contribution to ISAF is pretty meagre compared to Britain's, and they are just as much at risk from terrorism as us?

But that's what the Mail was caterwauling about and we just spent several pages dismissing that as the commonly reached conclusion was there was no elevation or 1st place awarded to our continental cousins.

As to allying with Sarkozy? He is currently the elected representative of France, it is unlikely to just be a personal thing. I doubt even the president gets to ally closely with a country based just on personal likings.

I think the article is a dead horse and we should abandon beating it or trying to divine any portents from it's entrails now...

Albatross wrote: It's more interesting to me that it looks like he's trying to ingratiate himself with Sarkozy, which is odd thing to do, because he's rounding up gypsies and banning items of clothing.

Considering the degree to which Mubarak and the Sauds (live from the Levant?) are supported by the US, I don't think that pleasant political characteristics are central to the decision to align with one country or another.

That being said, my supposition is that rhetoric like this is designed to garner more French military support, rather than accurately describe its current state.

We may give the Saudis money, but we give the Israelis Nukes.

Bromsy wrote:And on a side note, damn you Australia, damn you. How dare you keep all the Aussie girls that far away? We need to relocate yer country to somewhere much more convenient. Just drop it like 10 miles off the coast of California. Much better flight times.

If you moved it then you'd probably lose all the beaches, and it's the beaches that keeps the girls so pretty, with all the swimming. This is why Queensland girls have been getting even prettier in the last week.


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Bromsy wrote:We may give the Saudis money, but we give the Israelis Nukes.

Nah, that was the French and to a lesser extent the UK. For all its funny dealings with US has always been pretty serious about non-proliferation.

Funnily enough, the Israelis then aided apartheid South Africa with their own program.

Kilkrazy wrote:

BrookM wrote:Want to meet nice people? Go to Germany, Germans are nice, oh yes they are, not sarcasm. When we were in Paris and asked for directions, we got sent the wrong direction every single time, as if it is some sort of secret sport.

Paris is a city in which there are no wrong places to go to.

I can assure you there are!!!

About Parisians misleading tourists, I have another explaination: I've discovered that most of them are completely unable to find their way without a metro lines map! Once in the surface they are lost, and they are far too proud to admit it when asked by a tourist! They'd rather send the tourist in the wrong direction than let a non-parisian doubt of their knwoledge of their own city. It's not specifically against tourists, they do it with us too .

Now, When I worked in Paris in a bureau de change I prided myself to help the tourists as much as possible. It's true that a significant portion of French population are jerks, just as everywhere else I guess, but they just don't care to hide it to the face of the world. On the other hand, we also have decent people among us ( they're just harder to find in Paris ).

Now back on topic, France is currently facing menace of a branch of Al Quaeda in North Africa. Perhaps Obama's declaration was a green light for our military operations in Sahel.

I don't gives no crap about the girls being pretty; it's a nice but unnecessary side benefit of the truly important case. Aussie girls can drink with me. The point being I can drink enough to make them pretty either way, but Aussie girls are awesome because they are still on their feet with me when that happens. It is purely circumstantial that they are usually also pretty for reals. And as a side benefit, if we did move it, we might lose the Cali beaches, and raise the national IQ

Plenty of Aussie girls in London, mate, and Polish, French, Japanese -- any nation under the sun, we've got 'em all as far as I can tell.

And guys too!

Hey, is this becoming a thread about what country has the prettiest women? It sure sounds like it to me*!

It's difficult to pick between Australian ladies, British ladies, and Irish ladies but I have to talk to an awful lot of Australian ladies at work, and they seen the most fun. Irish women have the best accents, though.

*sometimes I hear what I want to hear.

Bromsy wrote:I don't gives no crap about the girls being pretty; it's a nice but unnecessary side benefit of the truly important case. Aussie girls can drink with me. The point being I can drink enough to make them pretty either way, but Aussie girls are awesome because they are still on their feet with me when that happens.

This may well be the single best, and most profound thing I have ever heard anyone write about women. Seriously.