Lets get a discussion going, Do you allow non painted models on your tables?

Generally when we play we dont, all models MUST have 3 colors on them, how about you? Im talking friendly at your place, and even your LGS. I dont mind bases not being done, but models should be painted

I dont care. Its just a game.

I don't field anything unless its painted but I don't try to tell my opponents what to do. Bring 'em on.

Good points, i like to see the models painted when they come out to play, my LGS when i lived in NY wouldnt allow you to play unless models had 2+ colors and your bases were flocked

Oh no...not this discussion again. Didn't we just do this a few months ago. This is going to end up in a flame war soon. Everyone seems to have a strong opinion on this and it never ends well.

But I have an unpainted model on the table in front of me RIGHT NOW!

Yeah, but I'd rather see it painted!

In turnaments no, but friendly games bring what you got....

wasnt on here a few months ago :( not trying to start flame wars, so if it gets to that or the mods believe itll be that, please close thread, just curious as to others thoughts

I like the look of two painted armies going at it but if the person is new or trying out a new unit I don't mind

You're going to have people in two camps. Those who believe that not painting models is heresy and is disrespectful to other players, and those who think it's just a game and doesn't matter that much.

Personally I tend to respect people more if they participate in the hobby fully (i.e. paint their models) but I'm not going to turn down a game because someone doesn't have painted minis. Everyone's army tends to be a work in progress, and if you're adding new units and want to try them out while you're still working on them that's perfectly fine.

I don't field unpainted models, but I also don't tell my opponents how they're allowed to play the game.

i have no problem playing against unpainted models. i use unpainted models often simply because i dont have a lot of free time on my hands, and i would rather build or play than paint.

I don't "allow" anything. They're not my models.

Happygrunt wrote:I dont care. Its just a game.

+1, and a lot more.

It is really interesting to me.

Between 6-8 years ago, when I first got into the hobby.. The local GW would not allow you to play with unpainted miniatures. Minimum standard was 3 colors, with sand or flocked base. (3 colors could consist of Metal guns, painted main color, eyes diff color)

I'm sorta indifferent, but would PREFER to play against a painted army.

This did open a can of trouble last time, but it's a fair question provided it stays civil.

I wouldn't turn down an opponent because he doesn't have some painted miniatures/a squad/an army.

I can also understand those who don't want to. It's how they chose/like to play the game.

Honestly, a good half of my models aren't painted and the ones that are would only hit 3 colors if mithril silver drybrushed over boltgun metal counts. I, personally prefer playing to painting and, as I just started playing 6 months ago, I am still collecting my army; therefore when forced to choose between buying paint and buying models, models win.

Also, my artistic skills are......lacking. I have issues spray painting model cars, so I am trying to find time for one of the guys in my group to give me a tutorial, as I don't understand mixing, washes, etc.

Painted is good, but not required. Ive played against the 'Eldar 'BlueTac Craftworld' because the guy hadnt even glued them at that stage. Still fun!

Battlesong wrote:Honestly, a good half of my models aren't painted and the ones that are would only hit 3 colors if mithril silver drybrushed over boltgun metal counts. I, personally prefer playing to painting and, as I just started playing 6 months ago, I am still collecting my army; therefore when forced to choose between buying paint and buying models, models win.

Also, my artistic skills are......lacking. I have issues spray painting model cars, so I am trying to find time for one of the guys in my group to give me a tutorial, as I don't understand mixing, washes, etc.

Dude, you'll get better information from the tutorial section here than most modelling groups.

Sometimes you just have to watch someone paint before it all clicks.

I love both the hobby aspect and the gaming aspect of 40K, and I don't let either one get in the way of the other.

Ideally painted, but realistically you'd never play any games. There just aren't enough people out there with the patience to paint an entire army. I know a GW store manager who says he doesn't own a painted army (although that's because he enjoys painting and spends too much time on each mini).

Sometimes we introduce a house rule saying that continually unpainted models are subject to penalities (such as stupidity), but needless to say, not everyone is up for that.

Flashman wrote:Ideally painted, but realistically you'd never play any games. There just aren't enough people out there with the patience to paint an entire army. I know a GW store manager who says he doesn't own a painted army (although that's because he enjoys painting and spends too much time on each mini).

Sometimes we introduce a house rule saying that continually unpainted models are subject to penalities (such as stupidity), but needless to say, not everyone is up for that.

I really disagree with that statement. There was no problem finding people to play with when the local store had the 3 color policy. Even 12 year old kids could meet the minimum standard fairly easily.

Base coat, eyes, weapon...

Get it to that standard before you put it on the table, and I'm not even going to think about not playing you.

I can base coat an entire box of marines in about 15 minutes. Heck, you dont even have to take them off the sprue.

Then hit the weapons with a coat of chainmail or boltgun.

Then hit the eyes or backpack with a different color.
Boom, 3 color standard.

Doesnt have to be 'finished' just meet the min standard.

snurl wrote:I don't field anything unless its painted but I don't try to tell my opponents what to do. Bring 'em on.

This is exactly how I feel. I'd be lying if I said I didn't prefer playing against painted armies, but I am not going to dictate how someone else enjoys the game. Painted, unpainted, it doesn't really matter as long as my opponent and I had fun playing the game (and I won ).

There are fully painted armies in the world? Oh my. I've only ever played against 1 and seen maybe 3 ever at the store.

Given the choice I´d allways choose the painted army (unless I´d have to choose between a nice, well known guy and a total prick or completely unknown player), but I don´t mind unpainted armies.

After all, I had a long way to go to have some playable and painted armies myself.

2112 wrote:Oh no...not this discussion again. Didn't we just do this a few months ago. This is going to end up in a flame war soon. Everyone seems to have a strong opinion on this and it never ends well.

Haha, don't we have the same discussions on every topic over and again?

I don't mind either way. Painted is best, but non-painted is OK, too.

One of my favorite parts of the hobby is experimenting with new lists and combinations of models. Seeing as I can brainstorm, buy and assemble models a hell of a lot faster than I can paint them, I often have a few units on the table with no paint on them.

Non-painted doesn't bother me though. I'd rather an unpainted model than a proxy, personally.

We usually don't care much about it in the club, painted or not I'll still play against you.

I don't allow myself to field unpainted models on MY table (or any table). I have little control over anyone else.

I'd prefer their stuff painted, but I'd take having it more or less WYSIWYG before it is painted.

I do much prefer painted armies (i'm sure we all do).

I wouldn't tell an opponent what she/he should do, not really my place. Equally an oppentent telling me what was and wasn't allowed would get a flea in their ear if they told me what was what.

I have only actually played one game where an opponent has had bare metal mini and he was new to the game which is fair enough.

Personally I find it a but embarassing fielding an unpainted army when confronted with one that is. My first foray into 5ed 40k [since 2nd ed btw] was the Dakka Silver Sorcerer event last year and despite may best efforts I went with an unfinished IG army - all undercoated but only 50% with basecoats/detailing, non finished.

For me allot of this hobby is the spectacle so when confronted by awesome armies like Panic Kan Wall, ArbitorIan's Demons (Booooo!) or TitanPrincept's UMs over the tables at Warhammer World, you just think 'I'm not really showing myself in the best light here'. Suffice to say allot more work went into my force for the next event!

Luco wrote:There are fully painted armies in the world? Oh my. I've only ever played against 1 and seen maybe 3 ever at the store.

It seems you're mistaken Luco, those 3 armies were clearly just a small section of a much larger army that was simply too large to field at that points level. As such the unpainted ones were culled from the match.

I'm with a few other on this, I'd prefer to see a painted army, but I don't really mind.

I don't field unpainted models. I' prefer my opponents not to but I don't insist on it. (I'll play against un-painted over an army with proxies any day)

I personally only add something to my army when i have painted it,its just a quirk in the way i set about assembling and painting the minis.Against me,i am not bothered.They may be kids who want to play the game more than paint or some are ( older gamers ) hating the whole idea of painting a mini and just assemble them to play.In the end its a personal thing,i am just happy to get a game or 3.

wolfshadow wrote:

Flashman wrote:Ideally painted, but realistically you'd never play any games. There just aren't enough people out there with the patience to paint an entire army. I know a GW store manager who says he doesn't own a painted army (although that's because he enjoys painting and spends too much time on each mini).

Sometimes we introduce a house rule saying that continually unpainted models are subject to penalities (such as stupidity), but needless to say, not everyone is up for that.

I really disagree with that statement. There was no problem finding people to play with when the local store had the 3 color policy. Even 12 year old kids could meet the minimum standard fairly easily.

Your disagreement is noted.

I detest painting, so only a handful of models in my army even have paint (apart from spray undercoat) on them.

I've had 2 total games since about April last year, one 1.5k 40k game and one 1k WHFB game; I have also neither bought nor assembled any further models in that space of time; that is how much spare time I have on my hands. Since I prefer to play far more than I prefer to colour in a model, my free time for Warhammer goes into building and subsequently playing.

I'll allow anything as long as it has the right base and similar stature to what it's meant to represent; life's too short and busy to be picky.

wolfshadow wrote:Dude, you'll get better information from the tutorial section here than most modelling groups.

Normally I would agree with you, but 2 members of my group are professional artists, so I think I am in good hands...

I can't stand to field unpainted models... but hey, who am i to judge if the other guy is just too busy to have time to paint? I am painfully aware of how long it can take to paint - my OCD ass has been painting a Skaven army for three editions now. And I'm still not done...

Wow, I see a few places actually require basing? All of my minis are painted (though there have been times when I have fielded a WIP model) but not a single one is based and I have no plans to do such. I know tournaments tend to require painting but what about basing at tournaments? My FLGS really doesn't care about paint jobs (a small prize is given for best painted but there is no requirement).

As to the subject of the Thread, I prefer to play w/ painted minis but I enjoy the game far too much to snub someone because they didn't paint. Heck, I even played a game last week against some eldar who most of his tanks were paper cut outs.

I dont like feilding my models unpainted, and i dont minde if my opponent has not painted theris, but next time i play them they need to have about 40% more of their models painted or i give em a word.

I try to have my models painted before i play with them, and i really like those games when both armies are fully painted and on a fully painted and flocked table, but i would never hold my opponent to the same standard because frankly its his army, his time and his money.

Although I think a lot of people think painting to a tabletop standard is way harder than it really is, i see a lot of the guys in my shop with partially painted armies who do try to take the time to paint but end up taking 8-10 hours just to paint one guardsmen. of course youll never get done at that rate and the whole prospect seems really intimidating. It doesnt have to be a masterpiece just slap a basecoat a couple of secondary colors and then a wash and your army will look great in no time. will it win best painted awards, probably not but youll have a great looking army on the table rather quickly.

Do i hate playing against unpainted models? Yes
Do i try and field a fully painted force? Yes
Will i refuse to play against someone with unpainted minis? NO.

I love seeing fully painted miniatures in battle, and in my mind i will be annoyed if my opponent hasn't put in the effort. I keep it too myself however just in case one day i desperately want to try out a unit i have hastily assembled. I do however dislike consistently unpainted/unassembled miniatures, i will drop hints if they havent painted them for several games, 'Oh still haven't done those terminiators?' etc. If they give an excuse such as 'unsure what weapon combination' i will not be pleased (why should i be a guinea pig?). Plus i really HATE indecision (probably because i am abnormally impulsive).

As for proxies i would prefer to fight a fully painted force of them as long as they weren't too ragtag. For example if the opponent was playing guard using ww2 tanks, those greatcoat knockoff guys and some napeolonic stuff all to roughly the right scale i would have no problem. If he was using numerous miniatures of many races to represent a completely different one i would take issue and prefer they used unpainted stuff for the correct army.

I think a subcategory could be:
How do you feel playing on 'pile of books' terrain?
I can never inspire myself to make terrain.

Personally, I try to have fully painted figures, but the trade off for a lot of people is "hold out for painted figures but not get any games in" vs. "actually get to play WH40K, even if it means unpainted figures"

To be completely honest back in the states when I could play, I was mostly playing with a lot of military, so people were never around long or were forced into a time crunch, like myself and could not always field a fully painted army. We all play the game for fun, so in the end I guess it really revolves around who you play with, because I really have no personal opinion in this situation.

a small waagh wrote:I dont like feilding my models unpainted, and i dont minde if my opponent has not painted theris, but next time i play them they need to have about 40% more of their models painted or i give em a word.

The point where someone 'has a word' with me for not painting my models is when i'll usually tell them to sod off and i'll find another opponent. Of course, i'll always ask if you want to paint my models for me since you want it done so badly, but there's no way i'm paying; after all, only you'd gain any benefit.

If people don't want to play against my unpainted army, they're more than welcome; what they're not welcome to do is call me out on what I choose to do with the army I paid for and assembled. Either choose not to play me or keep your gob shut, because the second i'm told what I can and cannot do with my army based on their own desires is the second they get put on my 'A**hole' list.

Like others said, I'd rather see it painted. But if its between someone just throwing paint on them to say they are. . .just leave them bare until you want to spend time on them.

Fully Painted Armies on Apocalypse = Win.

It does not really bother me considering it is just a game, and games should be played for fun.

At the same token I encourage my friends and opponents to field everything they have. I will say "Dude you army will look awesome once it is painted."

Like most on here, I like seeing painted armies, and I take pride in my own painted (not beautiful or anything) figs. That being said, yes I occasionally field unpainted because, hey, life gets in the way of playtime. I play with a great game group and everyone seems to do things to the best of their ability. When I recently hosted a (very) small tourney, we had prizes for 1,2,3, and the princess award (so called because my daughter picked the winner) that was an award to the best looking army to reward the time and effort spent to field a good looking army.
I would rather play against an unpainted army fielded by a skilled, fun opponent than a beautiful painted one fielded by a tool. Its great to reward the effort but the opponent and their attitude is what makes it for me.

Painted is better but I would rather play unpainted than not at all. With the turnover in the hobby it just limits my gaming opportunities if I don't play unpainted armies.

I like seeing painted armies, and as all of my 40K armies are painted I do like seeing them face off against other painted armies. However, I understand that it's my opponent's models and time, and I'm not going to refuse to play him/drop hints/etc. If he doesn't want to paint them, or whatever, that's his prerogative.

I remember when GW didn't allow unpainted armies. There were a lot of angry 8 year olds, complaining that their base-sprayed SM chapters aught to be allowed...

Personally, I don't care. I don't field my own army unless it is painted, because I am a 'known painter' in my local area, and I wouldn't want to embarrass myself by having unpainted models on my side. But for other people? It doesn't matter, so long as we are all having fun.

(I will admit, though, that I would rather play an unpainted army than be up against one that looks like it has been attacked by half a paint set in a super soaker. I just find it very distracting. :( )

KRUDD wrote:Lets get a discussion going, Do you allow non painted models on your tables?

Generally when we play we dont, all models MUST have 3 colors on them, how about you? Im talking friendly at your place, and even your LGS. I dont mind bases not being done, but models should be painted

You don't sound very fun to play with.

Honestly, I can't imagine how you can tell me I need 3+ colors on my 100 Gors, and then all my other monsters and such.

I prime them black, wash them with deep purple, and then apply a light purple wash...that's it.

I really would like to game against a fully painted army, instead of a half painted army that they refuse to paint. But, oh well.

malfred wrote:I don't "allow" anything. They're not my models.

Well said Malfred.

I think if someone wont play another simply because the guy doesnt paint or hasnt finished his army, is a total douche and doesnt deserve to be played. Personal view there though.

KingCracker wrote:I think if someone wont play another simply because the guy doesnt paint or hasnt finished his army, is a total douche and doesnt deserve to be played. Personal view there though.

So now we're telling people how they should enjoy the game?

This basically goes in circles, KC. If people don't mind playing against unpainted models/proxied armies/whatever, it's one thing, but saying what you did is basically doing the same discrimination they're being accused of doing. What we allow or not to be used in a miniatures' game doesn't make us douches, it just means different people have different ways of enjoying the various parts of our beloved hobby.

Painting is just one part of the game.

Destrado wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I think if someone wont play another simply because the guy doesnt paint or hasnt finished his army, is a total douche and doesnt deserve to be played. Personal view there though.

So now we're telling people how they should enjoy the game?

This basically goes in circles, KC. If people don't mind playing against unpainted models/proxied armies/whatever, it's one thing, but saying what you did is basically doing the same discrimination they're being accused of doing. What we allow or not to be used in a miniatures' game doesn't make us douches, it just means different people have different ways of enjoying the various parts of our beloved hobby.

I think you missed where he said it was his personal view. Fair enough if he said it was true, but he didn't, so I don't see why you're getting up in arms over someone else's personal opinion.

If I put personal opinion in mine, would it be any different? I'm not getting "up in arms", I'm just, y'know, talking about it.

Didn't intend it to come out as snarky, if it appeared so, then I apologize.

KRUDD wrote:Lets get a discussion going,

No, let's not. We've had it a dozen times before already.

I might do a bit of good natured ribbing if I've played someone a number of times and there's been no attempt at painting done,but honestly it's not that big a deal.
I prefer to completely paint an army before I put it one the table,and it's nice to square off against a painted army as well...but hey,I didn't buy your minis for you and it's really none of my business if you paint them or not.

augustus5 wrote:

malfred wrote:I don't "allow" anything. They're not my models.

Well said Malfred.

Thanks. It only took me ten+ years to come up with that one.

I prefer playing against painted armies, however most of my armies are WiP to a certain degree so in the end i really don't care too much. The thing that really gets me is when a character isn't painted and just is stuck in with other models that are all primed the same color.

Tournament wise i could once again care less, I only play at the local tournaments and they have a comp/painting scoring section so it doesn't bother me.

I recognize that people like to take their time painting their models so as to make them look good and therefore they do not want to rush them just for the sake of having them painted to play with. I'm totally willing to let people use unpainted models, especially since I do it quite often myself.

Heh, I just got 3000 points of Tau in the mail today (mostly unpainted). I am NOT going to wait until I have them all painted to play them. My space marines however are all painted up and ready to go.

I used to be strict on not allowing myself to play unpainted models. However a wife and kid later, and a slowly growing skill at better and more daring projects, has found me occasionally fielding unpainted, mid-construction models in order to play test them.

I honestly don't care for painted or otherwise as long as there is a competent general on the other side of the table to make a game of it.

My old gaming group used to be very for painting everything before you put it on the table. On average for the group, the painting standard was tabletop and better. But things have slipped, and now they are just "what ever" with 3+ colors more of an average.

My standard for myself is to have everything painted before it hits the table. Only exception is when practicing a list for a tournament and the unit/model is waiting to get finished.

Painting used to be a chore to get done so I could get a game in. Now that I have multiple armies, I don't feel it is a chore anymore. Now I enjoy the time I paint and look foward to it.

I'd rather everything was painted, but I'm both a slow and terrible painter, so I don't mind allowing unpainted/partially painted models in a game as long as they're clearly progressing from game to game (That primered Kroot squad being base coated next time for example)

Personally, I dont mind if my opponent has unpainted or badly painted models.

However, when i started this hobby, i decided that if it was within my power, i would not field an unpainted model or a partially assembled model.

To me, when I see unpainted/unfinished models, I automatically think "that person doesnt care about thier models"

I do not want people saying/thinking that about me

Obsidian Raven wrote:Personally, I dont mind if my opponent has unpainted or badly painted models.

However, when i started this hobby, i decided that if it was within my power, i would not field an unpainted model or a partially assembled model.

To me, when I see unpainted/unfinished models, I automatically think "that person doesnt care about thier models"

I do not want people saying/thinking that about me

Also, due to the way I paint/assemble my models... If its assembled, its painted, to at least 3 color min standerd, if not further.

I don't care. I have many demands on my time and I know most other people do too so I understand anyone not having a fully painted force. Basically, it's a game and my escape. If pressure is interjected into it, then it becomes a job and I already have one of those. Plus, I like to take my time and wouldn't be happy with basic, low quality, rushed work (uncolored plastic is better than a bad paintjob). With that said I can understand limiting tournament play to painted models only, friendly games no.

I'm sorry but unpainted plastic is NEVER better than a bad paintjob. That's possibly the worst attitude to take, Is this thread about 'well painted miniatures'? No, it's about painted miniatures (and by painted i infer from the context that it means beyond primer). I know it's verging on patronising but the least you can do is appreciate (and encourage) the time and effort someone has put into painting their miniatures. On a side note it seems at the rate i am painting my current force i will have unpainted units for a while to come! :-(

Perkustin wrote:I'm sorry but unpainted plastic is NEVER better than a bad paintjob. That's possibly the worst attitude to take, Is this thread about 'well painted miniatures'? No, it's about painted miniatures (and by painted i infer from the context that it means beyond primer). I know it's verging on patronising but the least you can do is appreciate (and encourage) the time and effort someone has put into painting their miniatures. On a side note it seems at the rate i am painting my current force i will have unpainted units for a while to come! :-(

I was talking about the standards I set for myself. I PERSONALLY don't want to field minis that I'm not satisfied with. I don't care what you are anyone else fields which is what I thought I related it my post, but I guess not. At any rate don't rush to the assumption that I'm a@@holish enough to insult someone's paintjobs.

I think a better question might have been "do you ever field unpainted models". I think the vast majority of people will not disallow an opponent from fielding unpainted minis just to be friendly regardless of their preferences or personal policy.

I won't field anything not painted to my standard. My friends models are permanently primed black. Why should I "punish" my friend for not caring very much about this game? I'm not going to convince him to paint his marines any more then he'll paint his monopoly tokens. But, it's still fun playing with him... seems like a dumb reason to drum a friend out of playing with me. All loss and no gain.

I actually like the look of black models, not as much as painted but it's my second favourite! THE SHADOW WARRIORS ATTACK!!!

I do, but only because my army isn't fully painted. If I had a bunch painted up, I might be a little more strict.

I like to take my time painting each model. I would rather do my models to a better standard in my own time than rush to get 3 colours minimum.

Also, every so often I do a bit of converting of an already completed model so suddenly there is unpainted/undercoated blobs on the model until I get around to painting it properly.

I think I will never be finished. To me this is part of the hobby. Moreover, I have 4 WIP armies.

Therefore who am I to demand painted armies only?

If I was playing a tournament, I would only field a finished army and expect the same from opposition, if not a tourno prerequiste already. Friendly game? No fuss.

If your going to spend the money on the figs why not at least try to paint the basic three colors. I don't care if people play with unpainted it is 1/2 assembled that drives me CRAZY!

Mike

Yeah, I gotta admit that partially assembled models really bug the crap outa me too.

At least put together enough of it so I can tell what it is, please!

What I find interesting in these types of threads and discussions is that many of the people that demand painted models often play said painted armies on some ugly ass tables.

They have an issue with someone's unpainted army "dispelling the illusion" or whatever but yet the table they are playing on has a brown board with two mis-matched hills (one painted in a snow scheme), some crumbling foam "buildings" some random fish tank plants and a plastic tower from a discount toy castle...



If your gonna demand painted armies you better have a lavish table with themed and matched terrain properly and fully painted and based, etc.


I also love stores that demand painted forces for events, yet their tables look like complete garbage.

Otherwise the complaints ring a little hollow and reek of paint snobbery...

I personally don't care if my opponent has an unpainted model(s) in their list. Not everyone appreciates every aspect of the game, and I don't see that as a reason why I should judge them or discourage others from playing with them. I personally like to field only models I've painted, but that's more of a personal pride I have with my painting skills. Not to say that I'm an amazing painter, but I think my stuff is more than tabletop worthy. And yes, I do base and flock my models as well. I don't consider the model to be 100% complete unless it is.

Most of those I play against have their armys in various states on completion! So I dont mind if there are un-painted minis on the table... as long as I can tell what it is!

CT GAMER wrote:If your gonna demand painted armies you better have a lavish table with themed and matched terrain properly and fully painted and based, etc.

Like this?

Scott-S6 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:If your gonna demand painted armies you better have a lavish table with themed and matched terrain properly and fully painted and based, etc.

Like this?

Anyone can pull a pic or two off the interwebz, but that proves nothing as the vast majrity of people do not have tables like that and do not put anywhere nere as much attention into terrain/tables as they demand for models, and i see people all the time playing painted armies on tables that are awful.

Go browse through even the tourney coverage threads on just this site alone and you will see plenty of painted armies (Many of the events depicted require them) playing on god-awful tables.


Yes that tablle you pictured is nice, and certainly above average, but if one wanted to take the attitude of the paint snobs it could be said that it is rather monotone and undetailed and certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Paint natzis demand based figs but unbased terrain is ok? Kind of proves my point...

I personally have no objection to unpainted forces and will play with and against them, but I find the common hypocricy that I mentioned entertaining and telling...

KRUDD wrote:Good points, i like to see the models painted when they come out to play, my LGS when i lived in NY wouldnt allow you to play unless models had 2+ colors and your bases were flocked

Which LGS is that? Because I want to make sure I never frequent that or you at my table in my travels, living in NY.

I don't mind whether they're painted or not.

Most of my models are painted and or primed anyways. So it shouldn't be a problem, and I've yet to run into "That F'n Guy" TFG.

For our regular gamer group nights? We always allow it.

CT GAMER wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:If your gonna demand painted armies you better have a lavish table with themed and matched terrain properly and fully painted and based, etc.

Like this?

Anyone can pull a pic or two off the interwebz, but that proves nothing as the vast majrity of people do not have tables like that and do not put anywhere nere as much attention into terrain/tables as they demand for models, and i see people all the time playing painted armies on tables that are awful.

Go browse through even the tourney coverage threads on just this site alone and you will see plenty of painted armies (Many of the events depicted require them) playing on god-awful tables.


Yes that tablle you pictured is nice, and certainly above average, but if one wanted to take the attitude of the paint snobs it could be said that it is rather monotone and undetailed and certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Scott-S6 can probably help you get some of that terrain if you need it.. The roads come in normal condition, but you can dirty thm up and destroy them however you like.

I appreciate it when people have their army painted. I myself can't actually field a painted army. I love to paint, but am extremely slow at it, and batch painting scares me Thus I only have 7.5% of my army painted and rarely get around to it.

Let's face it: a primer grey army looks better than someone who can't paint slapping on 3 colors over an unprimed model. Which is cleaner to look at across the table? I try to field only painted models, and get lots of compliments on them, but I won't judge someone on whether they've painted their entire army.

Really though, this is a game, and it's hard enough to find enough people to play that aren't douches. Who cares?

Tourney's? Fine, they should be painted if the rules stipulate it. Friendly games though? What happens when someone want's to proxy something to test it out before investing in the models? Is that against the rules in friendly games? You won't let a friend try out something new?

Balance wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:If your gonna demand painted armies you better have a lavish table with themed and matched terrain properly and fully painted and based, etc.

Like this?

Anyone can pull a pic or two off the interwebz, but that proves nothing as the vast majrity of people do not have tables like that and do not put anywhere nere as much attention into terrain/tables as they demand for models, and i see people all the time playing painted armies on tables that are awful.

Go browse through even the tourney coverage threads on just this site alone and you will see plenty of painted armies (Many of the events depicted require them) playing on god-awful tables.


Yes that tablle you pictured is nice, and certainly above average, but if one wanted to take the attitude of the paint snobs it could be said that it is rather monotone and undetailed and certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Scott-S6 can probably help you get some of that terrain if you need it.. The roads come in normal condition, but you can dirty thm up and destroy them however you like.

I'm fully aware he was pimping the product in his sig...

I don't need terrain. In fact I have a rather large collection, multiple themed sets and six gaming tables in my game room. That wasn't the point.

I personally like to field painted forces when I can, and I enjoy qulity terrain that is themed and a matched set, etc..

That being said I don't force my desire on others, and certainly no in a TFG way.

The point I was making is I have seen many people that are hard core paint snobs in threads like this and in person that then put there painted armie on crap tables with mismatched and worn out terrain which seems rather odd to me given that they make such a fuss about the visual aspects of the hobby...

I also see lots of events that require painted forces but the tables and terrain they provide look like absolute crap.

It always strikes me as rather ironic and amusing...

Perkustin wrote:I'm sorry but unpainted plastic is NEVER better than a bad paintjob. That's possibly the worst attitude to take, Is this thread about 'well painted miniatures'? No, it's about painted miniatures (and by painted i infer from the context that it means beyond primer). I know it's verging on patronising but the least you can do is appreciate (and encourage) the time and effort someone has put into painting their miniatures. On a side note it seems at the rate i am painting my current force i will have unpainted units for a while to come! :-(

You obviously havent seem some of the absolute hideous paint jobs out there then,

Allow? Who am I to allow anything?

They payed for the models, and the store owner payed for the tables.

well if i did'nt id be screwed

CT GAMER wrote:I'm fully aware he was pimping the product in his sig...

I don't need terrain. In fact I have a rather large collection, multiple themed sets and six gaming tables in my game room. That wasn't the point.

The point I was making is I have seen many people that are hard core paint snobs in threads like this and in person that then put there painted armie on crap tables with mismatched and worn out terrain which seems rather odd to me given that they make such a fuss about the visual aspects of the hobby...

I also see lots of events that require painted forces but the tables and terrain they provide look like absolute crap.

It always strikes me as rather ironic and amusing...

I was more making the point that there are people with nice terrain, that's some of the terrain I'm using at the moment. (mixture of my own stuff and GW's) I've always placed a reasonably high priority on terrain which should be, at minimum, neat and functional. I do agree with you that it is something that too many people neglect. Between the scenery that you can easily make yourself and the scenery you can go out and buy there's excuse for some of the tables I see.

CT GAMER wrote:certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Rubble is pretty but terrain is all about interaction with the mini's - you need clear space where they can be placed without falling over.

We always do, the newer store in Buffalo I believe is forcing 3 color in tournaments (RUMOR, I HAVE NOT CHECKED). My personal view is that not everyone has time to paint their army. I'm a college student who also works as a hockey ref. I have a lot of work to do & my free time is usually eaten up by lab work & what little sleep I can afford. I try to paint when I have time but if all my models had to be 3 color to use them I'd never get around to actually playing.

tl;dr people get busy & painting takes a lot of time. I would prefer painted but I understand if they aren't.

wolfshadow wrote:
I can base coat an entire box of marines in about 15 minutes. Heck, you dont even have to take them off the sprue.
Then hit the weapons with a coat of chainmail or boltgun.
Then hit the eyes or backpack with a different color.
Boom, 3 color standard.
Doesnt have to be 'finished' just meet the min standard.

And that my friends is the problem with painting requirements.
Would you rather face unpainted/partially painted armies?
Would you rather face poorly painted, 3 color minimum armies?
Would you rather face nothing but space marines, because they are easier to paint than 200 IG infantry (can sub in 60 chaos warriors vs 300 goblins).

IMO, painting should be encouraged. Positive reinforcement is typically more effective to completing a lengthy task like painting a whole army.

I played in a build up league, that any new unpainted unit started with 2 "green troop" tokens. Each token causes the first successful roll to be re-rolled. When partially painted, they play with no tokens. When finished and based, they get 2 "veteran" tokens. Each veteran token allows one failed rolled to be re-rolled.
So, with an in-game bonus for painting, along with paint-days (brushes, paint and beer supplied), I finished my first fantasy army.
(The green to veteran part was neat, but I'm all about free beer).



-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

wolfshadow wrote:
I can base coat an entire box of marines in about 15 minutes. Heck, you dont even have to take them off the sprue.
Then hit the weapons with a coat of chainmail or boltgun.
Then hit the eyes or backpack with a different color.
Boom, 3 color standard.
Doesnt have to be 'finished' just meet the min standard.

And that my friends is the problem with painting requirements.
Would you rather face unpainted/partially painted armies?
Would you rather face poorly painted, 3 color minimum armies?
Would you rather face nothing but space marines, because they are easier to paint than 200 IG infantry (can sub in 60 chaos warriors vs 300 goblins).

And I'll argue again that an unpainted primer grey army looks better than most army's painted to a "minimum standard". Yay you just spent $500 buying and painting an army that now looks like crap! Also, if you ever wish to sell your army I personally will not buy painted miniatures off ebay, because you can expect to have to paint over someone's "minimum standard" army that has paint gooped into all the detail.

Scott-S6 wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I'm fully aware he was pimping the product in his sig...

I don't need terrain. In fact I have a rather large collection, multiple themed sets and six gaming tables in my game room. That wasn't the point.

The point I was making is I have seen many people that are hard core paint snobs in threads like this and in person that then put there painted armie on crap tables with mismatched and worn out terrain which seems rather odd to me given that they make such a fuss about the visual aspects of the hobby...

I also see lots of events that require painted forces but the tables and terrain they provide look like absolute crap.

It always strikes me as rather ironic and amusing...

I was more making the point that there are people with nice terrain, that's some of the terrain I'm using at the moment. (mixture of my own stuff and GW's) I've always placed a reasonably high priority on terrain which should be, at minimum, neat and functional. I do agree with you that it is something that too many people neglect. Between the scenery that you can easily make yourself and the scenery you can go out and buy there's excuse for some of the tables I see.

CT GAMER wrote:certainly rather unrealistic considering that it depicts ruined urban structures yet the ground is completely clean and depicts no rubble.

Rubble is pretty but terrain is all about interaction with the mini's - you need clear space where they can be placed without falling over.

Yes some people Do have nice terrain.

Again nice and ultra-detailed terrain ISN'T a must, and I'll play on whatever is available, but I was ratehr making the point that I have seen MANY people fielding fully painted armies on subpar terrain, and more importantly I have seen people that DEMAND painted armies (be they individuals, store or event organizers) yet their tables/terrain look like absolutely horrible, mismatched, run down and generally unappealing. These are the people that claim painted armies make the game "better" yet their tables are just as much an eyesore as any unpainted force.

As for the rubble, or lack thereof, I think your terrain looks fine, but was pointing out that a similar argument could be made regarding it then is being made about primed armies, etc.: a ruin with no rubble at all is the terrain equivilant of a primed figure. Rubble and the extra detailing that can go into terrain basing serve the same effect as basing on models and can be done in a way that increases aesthetics (which is what this whole argument is about) and STILL be a playable piece...

Many people neglect terrain, which is fine, but not IF they are then also being paint snobs/paint natzis when it comes to model they are gonna use or play against. If you are arguing that aesthetics must be addressed, then this MUST apply to terrain as well or you are being a hypocit an frankly sort of TFG to boot...

i dont alow unpainted armies on my table...... at a minium all units must be undre coated and 60% of the army must be painted

As long as the models are GW or a realistic proxy, the paint is irrelevant to me. 80% of my army is unpainted, and I am an unapologetic perfectionist. It takes me quite a while to paint one model.

I dont care one way or another, its the game that matters.

At tournaments and other predetermined "serious" games: Yes, definitely. Entire army painted to some standard and WYSIWYG or no entry.

For friendly games, I say play with what you got. Hell, even using paper cutouts of units you want to try out, or marking "carnifex" on that Dr Pepper bottle to fill out your ranks is fine with me as long as the player is friendly. I've played plenty of games with entirely subbed armies, paper monoliths, coke can monstrous creatures, and had lots of fun.

Selecting a game by player is much more important than selecting by army.

Everyone would rather play against fully painted armies, nobody is arguing this. The only exception is a very badly painted army, like those with garish unshaded colors. Nobody likes playing with people who obviously don't care about their models' appearance, and I agree it's disrespectful to the players who spent the time with theirs.

The simple fact is a lot of people don't have painted armies because 40k for them is a hobby, not some unpaid second job. Do you really want to scare new players out of this very hard-to-get-started hobby by saying not only do you have to spend $500+++ on an army, but you're not even allowed to play your game until you do the following chores.

For most people I'd say assembling the models is fun, and painting is not, so most people stop there.

112lom wrote:i dont alow unpainted armies on my table...... at a minium all units must be undre coated and 60% of the army must be painted

Don't be so picky, it's just a game, and it's not even your table. If someone at my gaming place sported this attitude I wouldn't play with them even if I had a master painted army, because they'll probably be as uptight about everything for the next 2 hours of the game.

Personally I dont play with anything that isnt at least painted up to my expectations as far as table top quality goes. For my opponent however, I take any player I can get. It does bother me, because I feel it definately detracts from the mystique of the game and the experience, but I cant go around dictating to people what they need to do....im not an donkey-cave. The person I currently play with has vitamin water bottles for drop pods, his sternguard is a mixture of terminators and orks, and his rhinos are pieces of paper in the shape of rhinos (2D)....some think that might be taking it too far, but I just enjoy playing.

I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Hey i play with anyone my fav opponent dosent bring al of his models as he is a perfectionist and hasn't painted all of them yet and refuses to play with them unless they are all painted so im usualy up against a force of bases with writing on them

Personally i would prefer fielding my own army fully painted but alas one crucial thing is still glaring at me in chaos black primer and thats my character models for my dark elf army. Reason being that it is only after 2,5 years of painting i feel confident enough to give them a go.
so slowly geting there now but would never refuse a game because of another player not having painted his models.
the group i play in we have one guy who after 2,5 years still has units in chaos black and we rib him a bit but would never consider saying he could not play. of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and i can understand some people prefering to play against fully painted armies as would i.

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Your joking right?

Mike

I am fine with it. As long as the army isn't painted in neon colors that hurts my eyes and has a giant flare attached to one of his tanks. I am fine.

I don't know if I would have ever played a game of 40k if I required my opponent's armies to be completely painted (much less wysiwyg).

I don't let my opponent's lack of desire to do painting get in the way of me playing the game.

I again will voice that I always try to field 100% painted, but don't mind if my opponet doesn't.

Though it is nice when in the local shop you and you're opponet both have painted armies, and people are watching because you're the only 2 with fully painted armies

Well, In dont really care if its unpainted, Im gonna play anyway, but I have to admit that it looks a lot nicer when the minis are painted.

Misguidance wrote:I remember when GW didn't allow unpainted armies. There were a lot of angry 8 year olds, complaining that their base-sprayed SM chapters aught to be allowed...

That would be why they changed the policy. It's all part of the way they target kids as a major source of profit. If you tell kids they can't use their toys until they've gone away and spent some time on them they probably won't bother or will buy stuff at an incredibly slow rate because of small attention spans and a need for instant gratification, especially in the age of computer games, many kids won't even pick up a damn book. GW staff want to say "Get this, this and THIS and you can use them all RIGHT NOW!!" because that's how you sell stuff.



Personally I only want painted miniatures on the table. I don't believe it's a big ask, especially for skirmish games and small armies. Hoard armies are more work but that's the decision of the person collecting them. If you are clearly in the middle of painting up an army the I'll cut you some slack but the reality is that many people in the habit of fielding unpainted armies and have very little intention of making progress between games. I'm not keen on playing a game that looks rubbish. I've heard all the excuses but we all have lives, jobs and families. Actually painting your army has always been part of the hobby for as long as the hobby has existed and I don't see a reason to change that now. If my stance on this has hardened in years it's because I see the fielding of unpainted models becoming more widespread.

Fielding unpainted miniatures is poor etiquette. It might sound harsh but I don't hold anyone to standards that I don't maintain myself.

I usually follow the three colour rule. I don't mind empty bases but merely assembled or basecoated minis are a disgrace

I don't mind playing against unpainted, but I would like you to eventually paint the models.

madmartykmf wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Your joking right?

Mike

I'll leave that up to you to decide.
I'll say this much, though... That statement is no more ridiculous than those that say they won't play against someone whose army is unpainted.

Eric

I personally dont care if a players army is painted, its more of an issue in tournaments but even then it doesnt bother me much.

I've always been more interested in the game itself then the hobby aspect.
I like modeling converting, but I paint like a two year old.


The other player would have to do more then just leave their models unpainted for me to avoid playing them.

Personally I don't field un painted troops. When I play people for fun, I won't play them if their army isn't painted or isn't close to WYSIWYG.

I took the time to paint my toy soldiers, I would hope the people I play against did the same.

Maybe I'm just lucky as the majority of the people in Orlando paint their toys. Pretty much all of the local gaming shops from Sci Fi City, Amorous Armadillo, and Paladin will sit down and help you learn how to paint. Also, I know that the Amorous Armadillo has a weekly workshop to help you paint your stuff. If you're not up for painting your toys, they they will ask if they can use your stuff in their weekly workshop and after a month or two you'll end up with a table top force (usually they just ask that you buy the paint and stock the painting cabinet/store bits box).

That and there are several stores in Central Florida that stock Warcast Studios bases so you're not having to worry about ordering resin bases online or anything like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MagickalMemories wrote:

madmartykmf wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I don't care if your model is fully painted. I don't even care if it's fully assembled.
I refuse to play anyone, however, who doesn't have all of their bases flocked and fully painted in a 100% matching scheme.

Eric

Your joking right?

Mike

I'll leave that up to you to decide.
I'll say this much, though... That statement is no more ridiculous than those that say they won't play against someone whose army is unpainted.

Eric

I'm not kidding - I have only played one unpainted army in the last year and that was because he was brand new to Warhammer Fantasy. After two months he has a fully painted Demon army. It was still in progress. Then again, I'm not the kind of person that plays every weekend. I usually get 2-3 games in a month and in the months of Jan - Apr I get possibly 1-2 games in as I'm in work mode through this time (busy season sucks). So for me its not a ridiculous statement.

I won't play with an unpainted model. My buddies do, otherwise we couldn't have very large games. But they are good about WYSIWYG and don't play stuff for something it isn't. And they are painting their armies, it's just taking a while.

burad wrote:I won't play with an unpainted model. My buddies do, otherwise we couldn't have very large games. But they are good about WYSIWYG and don't play stuff for something it isn't. And they are painting their armies, it's just taking a while.

that would work for me - I just hate going to the Shop and seeing someone who has been playing for more than a year and still doesn't have a single squad that is painted or primed. Not a fan of that and won't play them.

yeah i've been wondering but what is the three colour rule as i use way more than three colours

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:yeah i've been wondering but what is the three colour rule as i use way more than three colours

A guideline some events have used is that each model must have three distinct paint colors on it. This would knock out the guy who primes his army, but even basic detailing can get it up to three colors for just about any model:

Prime in a base color.
Paint eyes another color.
Add a basic black wash to bring out details.

That's extremely easy, and sets the bar very low. Literally, a player with physical challenges can do this and be able to compete in events without any complaints and this looks perfectly fine, especially at 20 feet, even if the models aren't the showpieces a lot of dedicated hobbyists can produce.

(Hopefully it's clear that I meant "physical challenges" in a very real way, not as an insult. And, to be honest, a lot of my painting is probably closer to that end of the scale than it is the dedicated hobbyist. :( )

I think my old Tyranids exceeded this, despite being partially an excuse to try 'quick painting' and being pretty poorly done by modern standards:

Primed in Bleached Bone (or primed white and base color of Bleached Bone)
Dark Blue on the Carapacey bits
Red eyes
Greenish wash on everything.
White detailing on teeth.
'Mud' brown base.

I really do think my painting has improved since then.

I've rethought my stance.

I will no longer play with anyone whose mandollies aren't painted to a competition standard (Golden Demon, etc.).

It just ruins the aesthetics of the game and makes it no fun.

Eric

I have no issues with unpainted models. I do have an issue with flying bases or plastic cups used as proxies.

If I said "no", there is no way I'd play anything over 300 pt. games >.<

I don't have issues with unpainted models, and I hope nobody would mind my completely unpainted armies.


For the three color rule, could you just paint three different colored lines on your base?

The Bringer wrote:For the three color rule, could you just paint three different colored lines on your base?

Genius .

The Bringer wrote:If I said "no", there is no way I'd play anything over 300 pt. games >.<

I don't have issues with unpainted models, and I hope nobody would mind my completely unpainted armies.


For the three color rule, could you just paint three different colored lines on your base?

Not sure... I think it had to be 'completely covered' so you could prime'em and add a few colored lines, though. Some said no primer, but if you're painting black anyway, who cares?

I figure with enough rules it's easier to at least try to paint if you gain even the slightest satisfaction from doing so.

A minor pet peeve of mine is people who won't paint because "they can't do it well enough." Painting is a skill you learn by doing. You won't improve by looking at other paint jobs! Sure, my old paint jobs look like crap, but my new ones: they look like less crap! I've improved!

Not, mind you, that I have anything against people who jsut don't enjoy painting, but it is part of the hobby, and it does make the game mroe fun for me if the opponent has a painted force.

Painted models are fine. It's the same with my FLGS, i once participated in a 5000pt tyranid vs imperium battle (nothing organised, and yes there were many nid players there that day) and my 1250pts worth of tyranids were the only nids painted!

I prefer painted models and generally field them exclusively. Some leeway is given to my WIP projects, but even so it is rare.
Given two opponents that I know nothing about other than one has an entirely painted army and the other does not, I would choose to play the one with the painted army 100% of the time.

Caveat: I hate painting and am not good at it.

I do what I can to make certain models painted before they are included in lists. I recently played a game with some unpainted gargoyles and hormagaunts because I ran out of biomorphs. It annoyed me, but I played them, because I had discussed this list with my opponent a number of times prior to our match. 2 people commented on my unpainted models. It made me sad. heh

In an ideal world every one can paint to the level of the Heavy'Metal team.

I wont field any thing that isn't painted, all of my IG are painted and thats close to 3000pts. Granted they arn't the best painted models where I am but I have invested the time and love to do so (some of the bases have to be finished in the same colours ).

It does erk me some what when I'm faced by a wall of bare plastic, but, its not my army so "meh". As for badly painted...I can see that at lest they have tried and spent some time on their force, given them a soul.

And as every one knows, the Dice gods favour the better painted army

In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to have painted armies for tournaments.

Here is my opinion on the painting issue and it is just that, my opinion. Everyone seems to enjoy playing with and against painted armies, that being said there is no other reason that I can see to enforce a painting rule.
A painting rule has many negative repercussions.
1) The models come unassembled. It takes many hours to assemble even 1000 points worth of models. Now you're forcing those players to spend even more time painting them before they can even try out their investment.
2) Why would someone buy stuff for retail price plus sales tax from a store that they're not allowed to play at when they can buy it for 20% off online.
3) Some people can't paint or just don't like to. Those people will buy a painted army on ebay and the store loses that business. That person might also put three dots on the model that follows the letter of the rule but certainly not the spirit.
4) As previously mentioned, some people don't enjoy painting. You may say: But it's part of the hobby! So are the Black Library novels and fluff but it isn't mandatory to read all of the novels and stories written about your army before you play them. This is one point that is often glossed over and it shouldn't be. Painting is only one aspect of the hobby.
5) Even people that like to paint may not have a lot of time. I have a large painted Salamanders army. My Space Wolves on the other hand are only about 15% painted after over a year. What that doesn't take into account is that all of my Space Wolves are very individualistic and the army contains a lot of conversions. Each model is designed to look as different from his pack mates as possible. Also, I've converted and built 12 Thunderwolf Cavalry models along with assembling and painting a Space Wolves Thunderhawk. That's a lot of work for 18 months right? Sure is. But I still can't play the army at a store that has a painting requirement. I've put a lot of time into these models and don't want to just slap 3 colors on them either. I work full time, have a family, and am pursuing a Master's Degree in addition to my Warhammer time.

eeeerm well Magikalmemories that is waaaaaay harsh because not everyone can paint to Golden Demon standards i found it hard to paint to my rubbish standards. so saying that you'd never play anything cause it would take forever to paint and you would be scared to play with them. ????

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:eeeerm well Magikalmemories that is waaaaaay harsh because not everyone can paint to Golden Demon standards i found it hard to paint to my rubbish standards. so saying that you'd never play anything cause it would take forever to paint and you would be scared to play with them. ????

Sarcasm is an odorless, tasteless gas...

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:eeeerm well Magikalmemories that is waaaaaay harsh because not everyone can paint to Golden Demon standards i found it hard to paint to my rubbish standards. so saying that you'd never play anything cause it would take forever to paint and you would be scared to play with them. ????

>: )

And, thus, we reach the point of my comment.

Why is it okay to insist that your opponent have painted models, but not okay to insist on a certain quality level?
Why is is "waaaaaay harsh" to say one, but not the other?

Those who've used the 'You'll become a better painter with practice" statement as a defense/offense of their opinion can easily ascribe that same statement to "Golden Demon" quality. With enough practice, you'll get there.

It's no less a big load of crap to insist that your opponent paint his models - to dictate what he does with his own property- than it is to insist that he paint them all to display standards. They're toys, for God's sake.
If the guy doesn't want to paint them, regardless of reason, then people need to get off of their high horses and accept it. Not everyone wants to paint their mandollies.
Don't want to play him? Don't. But, to sit around acting like your better than him -like he doesn't deserve to play on the same game board as you (collectively - Not you specifically)- is ridiculous.


Eric


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CT GAMER wrote:Sarcasm is an odorless, tasteless gas...

Reading that, and considering my avatar, I couldn't help but *actually* LOL. : )


Eric

Hey i didn't say that i dont allow unpainted models im totaly against that as most of mine is unpainted


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

That's why I stressed that the "you" was collective, meaning anyone who had that personal rule, rather than you specifically.

Eric

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:Hey i didn't say that i dont allow unpainted models im totaly against that as most of mine is unpainted


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

Alright, invoking Godwin's Law in 3...2...1...

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

Bild des Menschen!

Perhaps instead of "Papers please!" it should be "Painjobs please!"

I like MagickalMemories' idea. The paintjob needs to be so lifelike, I'm actually afraid the tyranids might be real and will attack me from their little plastic bases. I take it one step further though. Typically I find the game appalling unless they provide me at least a 5000 word story about their army fluff along with a well conceived explanation as to why they'd be fighting me. It just completely destroys my immersion otherwise.

I don't mind playing against unpainted models. Naturally, I prefer to face off against a fully painted one. I do, however, hate to field my own unpainted models. Sadly, I'm such a slow painter that if I ever rigidly held myself to a "only painted models" rule, I'd never actually get to play.

When we plat Apoc. games,We use unpainted marine Vehicles for chaos.

To combat the risk of being taken serious above: I am not.

My friends helped me build my table; I'm not about to tell them they can't play on it. To paraphrase something another user said along time ago; is your imagination really so small you need the other person's little plastic army men painted up all nice?

Regardless of the kool-aid GW hands out, at the end of the day, this is game. You don't see football teams prohibiting others from playing on their fields due to not having enough colors on their uniforms, after all.

I love and appreciate the hobby but do not have the skills and patience to paint models. Hence my main painted army is Golden Necrons. I know all rules and my codexes off by heart, so should I be allowed?

BTW, all models are at least sprayed.

Personally I don't care if models are unpainted. As long as I can play the game then I'm not fussed. For myself however, I paint before I put the models together so all my playable models are painted regardless.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Misguidance wrote:I remember when GW didn't allow unpainted armies. There were a lot of angry 8 year olds, complaining that their base-sprayed SM chapters aught to be allowed...

That would be why they changed the policy. It's all part of the way they target kids as a major source of profit. If you tell kids they can't use their toys until they've gone away and spent some time on them they probably won't bother or will buy stuff at an incredibly slow rate because of small attention spans and a need for instant gratification, especially in the age of computer games, many kids won't even pick up a damn book. GW staff want to say "Get this, this and THIS and you can use them all RIGHT NOW!!" because that's how you sell stuff.



Personally I only want painted miniatures on the table. I don't believe it's a big ask, especially for skirmish games and small armies. Hoard armies are more work but that's the decision of the person collecting them. If you are clearly in the middle of painting up an army the I'll cut you some slack but the reality is that many people in the habit of fielding unpainted armies and have very little intention of making progress between games. I'm not keen on playing a game that looks rubbish. I've heard all the excuses but we all have lives, jobs and families. Actually painting your army has always been part of the hobby for as long as the hobby has existed and I don't see a reason to change that now. If my stance on this has hardened in years it's because I see the fielding of unpainted models becoming more widespread.

Fielding unpainted miniatures is poor etiquette. It might sound harsh but I don't hold anyone to standards that I don't maintain myself.

So why should your standards become mine? It doesn't sound harsh it sounds ignorant. For me, having all my minis painted is asking alot considering all the things i do outside of gaming, like paying the mortgage, fitness, friends outside the hobby etc etc. I try to put in a couple hours each week painting but sometimes it doesn't happen. Painting is part of the hobby yes but the rate at which someone paints shouldn't be an issue. Personally i don't care if both armies are painted, considering i used to play at a store where 12 year kids were using calculators as rhinos i can deal with unpainted minis. Would i love to field a fully painted army, sure and in my younger years i could, now i have 2 40k armies and both are WIPs so it will be a long time before that happens.

Poor etiquette eh?

Howabout all the money, loads of money, we put into the hobby?

Howabout the great amount of time it takes to actually assemble everything you have?

Asking one more thing out of a person is ridiculous at that rate. I would let people proxy so that they could play a game. Demanding a painted army is not something I would consider fair given the circumstances.

daedalus wrote:

Ultrasmurf_no_REALY wrote:
Im just against a "standard" because that reminds me of Hitler

Bild des Menschen!

Perhaps instead of "Papers please!" it should be "Painjobs please!"

I like MagickalMemories' idea. The paintjob needs to be so lifelike, I'm actually afraid the tyranids might be real and will attack me from their little plastic bases. I take it one step further though. Typically I find the game appalling unless they provide me at least a 5000 word story about their army fluff along with a well conceived explanation as to why they'd be fighting me. It just completely destroys my immersion otherwise.

Don't forget the detailed history, life and times of their general and command staff

Forgotmytea wrote:
Don't forget the detailed history, life and times of their general and command staff

This is true. In fact, if they're an IG player, they need to have the wartime propaganda newspaper already printed up and ready to be distributed showing that they won the battle regardless of real outcome. They should also be in uniform themselves.

daedalus wrote:

Forgotmytea wrote:
Don't forget the detailed history, life and times of their general and command staff

This is true. In fact, if they're an IG player, they need to have the wartime propaganda newspaper already printed up and ready to be distributed showing that they won the battle regardless of real outcome. They should also be in uniform themselves.

+1, looks like i have to start typing

I once played against an Eldar Avatar that was still in the blister pack. Funny as hell watching it charging a unit.

I don't mind as long as people are working on the army. If you have a new unit, vehicle or character painted or built next time, we're all good. Be lazy, I won't be overly impressed.

I recall a guy I saw playing years ago who screeched in horror when his opponent picked up a mass of dice to roll and yelled 'What are you doing? They're my Brettonian bowmen!'

Dude, get some models!

This type of attitude hurts the wargaming side of the hobby really with no real benefit to you (the player who refuses to play with unpainted models). Sure your games might look a lot better but how many more games could you play if you allowed non-painted models?

stalkerzero wrote:This type of attitude hurts the wargaming side of the hobby really with no real benefit to you (the player who refuses to play with unpainted models). Sure your games might look a lot better but how many more games could you play if you allowed non-painted models?

But then again, if you're trying to play with unpainted models in a situation where there's rules in place saying "You must have your army painted with X amount of colors and fully flocked" then you have noone to blame but yourself for not obeying those rules.

Escalation leagues(as an example, especially since the whole point of an Escalation league is that everyone comes up together from having a small force to a full army) commonly have a caveat to the effect of you can't get the full amount of points if you've made no progress in painting your army over the course of the Escalation league.

stalkerzero wrote:Sure your games might look a lot better but how many more games could you play if you allowed non-painted models?

How many games do you think I want to play? I play very occasionally and it'll be prearranged so can afford to be picky. I', happy to make my small quantity the best quality. If I needed to play very frequently then I'd have to take games whenever I could find them.

I prefer not to field unpainted minis, and I am very disappointed when I see people who haven't even tried to paint them or paint them ridiculously poorly. I can't remember where I saw the battle report, but a guy, in order to get by the GW 3 paints rule, had minis that looked like a horde of 5-year-olds painted them.

But as to allowing my opponent to play them? I don't really see how I can say no. Especially in a tournament setting, I can't really tell someone they have to show up with painted minis or leave. That's the tournament organizer's problem.

I'd prefer to have their models all painted as i really don't like looking at an army of grey, black or white. It's hard to tell the difference between one unit and another. But i'd still play them since i did come looking for a game

Yes, I allow un painted models on my table. You know why? Because the people at my LGS have things called jobs and families, and sometimes they want to play a big game, but no have the massive amount of time required to paint a 3000 point army to a good standard.

Do I prefer to play with painted models? Yes, of course, but I wouldn't not play with someone because they had an unpainted army.

I have half my army unpainted at the moment and if someone told me, "nope you can't play because those are unpainted," I'd consider doing something rude to him and take game and go play somewhere else, somewhere where the players have class and a realization of the real world.

Thankfully that has never happened. And as for quality of paint, that doesn't urk me at all, after all thats what orks are for, right isn't the tutorial book called "Learning to paint 40K With Space Orks." If someone is trying I see no reason to discourage such a person.

Now if someone comes week after week with the same army and never even base coats them, I'll make a kind remark about at least scrapping off the mold lines and slapping some decals on them at least.

I don't see the problem as long as they are working on it.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:But as to allowing my opponent to play them? I don't really see how I can say no. Especially in a tournament setting, I can't really tell someone they have to show up with painted minis or leave. That's the tournament organizer's problem.

Which is why I maximize my limited playing time with events that require painted models because that is what I want to play against. So the Event organizer tells people "you have to show up with painted minis or leave."

Pretty much the rule of the house is what goes. If the 'house' allows non-painted, suck it up or leave. If the 'house' requires painting, then suck it up or leave. It is pretty simple.

KRUDD wrote:Good points, i like to see the models painted when they come out to play, my LGS when i lived in NY wouldnt allow you to play unless models had 2+ colors and your bases were flocked

Thats a good way to lose bussiness.

nieto666 wrote:

KRUDD wrote:Good points, i like to see the models painted when they come out to play, my LGS when i lived in NY wouldnt allow you to play unless models had 2+ colors and your bases were flocked

Thats a good way to lose bussiness.

Actually, Many store owners say painted armies on the tabletop generate more sales and bring in more new customers because it goes from "300$ for my 12 year old to play with plastic toys?" to "300$ for a mature, hobby which will take hours of dedicated and skill and keep my kids off drugs?"

Painted models sells product. And from reading these forums, it sounds like a lot of the gamers who monopolize gaming space are the same who don't purchase models at full MSRP from the local store anyways. So I would be warey how much business is actually 'lost' by denying gaming space to people who don't shop there anyways. Not to mention, painted models (or at least PRIMED) helps curb theft. It is a lot harder to open a blister, glue it together and add it to an army of 300 models when the store requires no bare metal/plastic in the store. It is very hard to keep track of who is assembling a box of purchased models and who is just stealing stuff.

There is a balance and the store owners usually know what thier store can support. This is why lots of places have painted 'events' on high traffic times like weekends but no requirements during off hours like weeknight gaming. Everyone wins. I fully understand why Owners like to require standards which is why I never use an unpainted mini ever as I am a guest in his store and I want to support and respect him while I am there.

Wow, this topic comes up monthly, but this may be the longest it's ever gotten! Still it's a usefull discussion, so I'll play...

I try to never put an unpainted model on the table. Sometimes I'll play a unit that's only basecoated, but it's a matter of pride that I put a painted army on the table everytime.

As to my opponents. I can't dictate there standards, but I prefer to play those with painted armies. If you show up with an unpainted army, we'll have a game, but if you're not at least making painting progress, I probably won't play you again. My favorite part of the hobby is the spectacle of painted armies, which puts me at the other end of the spectrum from someone who's interest in the game is primarily the game itself and not the painting/modeling aspect. It's fine that there are people on the other end, but it's not for me.

I've recently switched over to a club that plays various skirmish games. We've been playing bi-weekly or more for about 4 months and have yet to put an unpainted model on the table! We also enjoy quietly sniggering at the walls of grey fielded by other folks playing GW and PP games at our FLGS.

What about models that are painted so poorly you wish they just left them as bare plastic?

Honestly? I haven't gotten around to painting my army yet because none of the models are, well, modeled to my standards. Sure, I could basecoat them, slap some colors on, but then I'd have to scrape the paint off every time I want to swap a limb, or add some greenstuff, or change the head of their choppa. I'm finiky that way, and what of it?

It's especially difficult for people (like me) that are doing a themed army, yet are unable to get ready-made models that fit that theme properly. Why waste the paint and time when you're just going to take it off again in a week?

MikeMcSomething wrote:What about models that are painted so poorly you wish they just left them as bare plastic?

I've seen some real crap paint jobs, and played against folks whose armies mix paintjobs and even that is preferrable to unpainted in my experience.

I really feel that putting unpainted miniatures on the table is often a by-product of the vibe that I get from alot of people that playing a game of less than 1200 points isn't worth it, and the general comp-oriented nature of certain game.

I'd be interested to hear from others with longer and wider experience, but it's been my experience while wargamers of all stripes seem to have unpainted figures it seems to be mostly GW and PP players who put them on the table.

I spend the time to paint my minis to the best of my ablitiy, i still let others play unpainted, but i whisper to the models '' don't worry you might get painted soon!!''

i then get told to paint them! we have fun.