Well first, the basic stats.

God-Emperor- 300 pts
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
10 5 6 6 5 6 5 11 2+ (Invun of 3+)

Rules:
Eternal Warrior, Fearless, Furious Charge
Ultimate Psyker: The Emperor can use 4 psychic abilities per turn and may use any power in the Space Marine codex. He does not have to roll a psychic test.
Icon of Humanity: All units within 18" of the Emperor automatically pass all morale tests.
True power: The Emperor may re-roll failed rolls to hit and wound, and ignores all saves, EVEN Invun. saves.
Leader of mankind: The Emperor may be used as a HQ in any imperium army.


Extremely overpowered, I know. I'm sure this has been done before, but it's my turn now!

He needs to be more points.

lol- How many??

double it.

I think.. 500 pts??

550

His stats should be all 10s

cgage00 wrote:His stats should be all 10s

No.

I think he should take up all hq slots in the force organization chart too

Ld 11?

I think that if you're playing the emperor, the FOC is probably being thown out the window.

If he's leading the army all other HQ's become Elites.

Fattimus_maximus wrote:If he's leading the army all other HQ's become Elites.

Or troops.

I think he needs a 2+ invuln that acts as a DE Shadow field. However, once it drops it becomes a 3+ invuln.

The Emperor of mankind has to be tougher than a storm shield.

Or maybe he has Armor 14 on all sides like a LR. =)

He should be.....

OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol,My friend and I where thinking of the same thing.

Don't forget His flaming sword and is awesome lightning claw.

I like the Shadow field style, but T6 with 2+ inv. save I'd say over 1000 pts. thats not all, WS10 S6 FC with re-rolls WTF? all unit within 18" automatic pass to ld tests? Ignore all saves? 4 psychic powers per turn and no psychic tests? No wait.... 9000 pts Apoc. only!

My foot guard would love the emperor attached to a big ol' blob. Who needs commissars when you pass EVERY morale check?

Yeah...Apoc only...and at least 600pts, probably more towards 750 if not higher.

remember ALL units within 18 pass LD test aka even enemy units

Yeah I do agree with the Apoc. only thing

I think for emperors/primarchs their stats should be similar to a chapter master (+1 w/b skill, +1 I and +1 attack) but they get to reroll everything hits, wounds, enemy/own saves and never need worse than a 4+ to hit or wound. I like the 'shadowfield' idea but maybe knock it down to 4+ to represent his defences being breached.

Who would win in a fight between the Emporer and a Hierophant Biotitan?

I think the emperor would avoid such an encounter as the psychic feedback from summoning the power necessary would probably wipe out all his own troops.

Inferno sword, and mega-elctro-claw-O-Death = Win

Here's a revised version I would suggest (apoc. games only):

God-Emperor- 600 pts
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 5 4 6 5 6 5 10 3+/2++*

Rules:
Eternal Warrior, Fearless, Furious Charge, Independent Character

Ultimate Psyker: The Emperor can use 4 psychic abilities per turn and may use any power in the Space Marine codex. He does not have to roll a psychic test.

Icon of Humanity: All friendly space marine, imperial guard, witchhunter, or demonhunter units within 12" of the Emperor are considered fearless.

For the Emperor!: The Emperor and any unit he is attached to gains furious charge, counter-attack, and may re-roll failed rolls to hit on the turn they assault.

Leader of mankind: The Emperor may be used as a HQ in any imperium army.

A Thousand Souls: At the beginning of each of your turns, before moving but after rolling for reserves and deep striking, roll a die. On a 4+, an infantry unit of your choosing must be removed from the game so that the God-Emporer may live. This unit does not count as a victory point for any player. If you do not have an infantry unit in play then the God-Emperor is removed from play and counts as a victory point for your opponent. You may not choose to not sacrifice an infantry unit if you have one in play when you roll a 4+.


Wargear:
Emblazoned Sword.
Emblazoned Sword counts as a str 6 power weapon. When assaulting units with an armor value, add 2d6 to the roll to penetrate.

Empowered Lightning Claw.
Empowered Lightning Claw counts as a str 6 power weapon and may re-roll failed rolls to wound.

Divine Halo.
Divine Halo gives the God-Emperor a 2+ invulnerable save until he fails an invulnverable save. After a failed roll for an invulnerable save, the divine halo counts as an iron halo.


---

There, that should balance things a little bit, especially the "A Thousand Souls" rule.

Maybe have him outside the foc, if you are running 2 detachments, just have him be it's own entity

You forgot his rule that when you roll a D6 on a roll under a 7 he stays on the throne and does nothing that turn

I think that the next step to this idea would be to convert a model that does the Emperor justice.

I mean, he is an all-knowing, almost divine being - practically a God amongst men. It'd be damned tough to capture all of this in a single miniature......

Oh, its been done.

Anyway, I don't think these stats do the Emperor justice. I don't even think its possible to.

Magnus went toe to toe with a Titan and won, and he wasn't as powerful as the Big E.

Additional rule for him:

Last, best hope for humanity: The God-Emperor is humanity's only hope for survival. If he is killed or removed from play, the controlling player immediately looses this game. Additionally, any other players playing an army from the IoM that are within earshot of this game immediately loose their games. In the event that both players in a game loose, then that game's win is credited to the nearest Xenos player.

Really 6 wounds he's still just human. And he was so powerful because of phycic ability no physical.

emperor was closer to being warp god than being human

I would think his stats would be something along the lines of an Eldar Avatar, then add the psychic fluff.
And don't forget the Astronimicon, he gets reinforcements whenever he wants.

Weapons? Big Swords, Spears, Axes or Pistols?

Plus he should take powers from the BA, new GK or WH codexes.

he's still just human

WHAT????
He's only the guy that fight against the 4 chaos gods and win....

Anyway I'd make him:

WS9 BS8 S6 T5 W5 I7 A5 LD10 SV 2+

Eternal warrior

Feel No Pain

Living God: he may reroll every to hit and to wound roll

Ultimate psyker: the emperor can use up to 4 psichic power each turn. He knows all the psichic powers available to any model choosen from the codexes: Space marines, space wolves, blood angels, imperial guard, daemonhunters, witchhunters. In addition he automatically pass every psychic test.
If an enemy nullify in any way an Emperor's psichic power (for example using a psichic hood) the power will still have effect on a roll of 4+

Universal knowledge: If the emperor is present you may reroll every reserve roll(even failed ones).

Our destiny made flesh: Every unit within 12" from the emperor can choose to automatically pass or fail any morale or pinning roll

The Last hope of mankind: If the emperor is removed from the tabletop for any reason, all units in the army will have to take a morale check or fall back. This check can't be rerolled for any reason.

The Cohort of the emperor : The Emperor is followed by the greatest heroes of mankind. He can have a retinue of 3-10 models choosen from the hq choices of Codex:space marine, Codex: Space Wolves, Codex: Blood angels, Codex:imperial guard, Codex: Daemonhunters, Codex: witch hunters. Any model with the rule "independent charachter loses this rule. Such is the faith of these heroes in the emperor that any model of the retinue have the : "sir! aaargh" rule of bodyguards from codex:imperial guard.

Equipment:

The emperor's sword and the emperor's fist : These weapons are a Force sword and a power fist
the Emperor can distribute his attacks between the 2 weapons (a la logan grimnar)

Tactical dreadnought armour MK66 : The emperor wears the most advanced armour ever forged by the imperium. It grants him a 2+ armour save and a 4+ invulnerable save (when the conversion field cease to function) and he can still make sweeping advance.

Psionic conversion field: The field grant the emperor a 2+ invulnerable save, but since the emperor have to maintain concentration to use it, if the emperor suffer a wound for any reason, the field cease to function.

Psychic hood: as in codex:space marines

Link to the astronomican: every successful reserve roll made by the enemy must be rerolled.


POINT COST : 750. APOCALYPSE GAMES ONLY

emperor of mankind 9001

living god: player with emperor may roll one live frag granade to opponents army once per turn

ExarchCain wrote:I think that the next step to this idea would be to convert a model that does the Emperor justice.

I mean, he is an all-knowing, almost divine being - practically a God amongst men. It'd be damned tough to capture all of this in a single miniature......

Not only has it been done, but they did one of Horus too. Although, I must say, I rather liked the Chuck Norris action figure too...

Calvinus wrote:

ExarchCain wrote:I think that the next step to this idea would be to convert a model that does the Emperor justice.

I mean, he is an all-knowing, almost divine being - practically a God amongst men. It'd be damned tough to capture all of this in a single miniature......

Not only has it been done, but they did one of Horus too. Although, I must say, I rather liked the Chuck Norris action figure too...

Nice.

Calvinus wrote:

ExarchCain wrote:I think that the next step to this idea would be to convert a model that does the Emperor justice.

I mean, he is an all-knowing, almost divine being - practically a God amongst men. It'd be damned tough to capture all of this in a single miniature......

Not only has it been done, but they did one of Horus too. Although, I must say, I rather liked the Chuck Norris action figure too...

Look out! He's behind you!!!

Calvinus wrote:Here's a revised version I would suggest (apoc. games only):

God-Emperor- 600 pts
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 5 4 6 5 6 5 10 3+/2++*

This is by far the most reasonable and accurate account of the Emperor ever put forth by fans. It should stand as a testament that while 99% of everything produced by the internet is crap, sometimes that 1% is pretty good.

Except this rule. It's clunky and doesn't make sense. Just remove it.

Calvinus wrote:
A Thousand Souls: At the beginning of each of your turns, before moving but after rolling for reserves and deep striking, roll a die. On a 4+, an infantry unit of your choosing must be removed from the game so that the God-Emporer may live. This unit does not count as a victory point for any player. If you do not have an infantry unit in play then the God-Emperor is removed from play and counts as a victory point for your opponent. You may not choose to not sacrifice an infantry unit if you have one in play when you roll a 4+.

Also, add that thing that eldar guy said about losing automatically if he dies.

New Rule:

Firing Meh Lazor:

If the Emperor would be killed, choose one ememy model and remove it from the game (this ability cannot be stopped for any reason and that model may not be used again this game).

I got my clone Hurus model, but its not as fancy as that one.....were my clone Hurus stats? : (

Yeah, I agree about removing "A Thousand Souls." It is pretty unwieldy but it was meant to help balance the cost of including him at only 600 pts. It was based on the fluff for how 1,000 people are sacrificied in the EoM every day to keep him alive on the Golden Throne. Just having the imperium player(s) lose the game when the Emperor dies would be easier.

Yeah, especially cause, well.,....I can see a loophole.

Unit of Conscripts with 'Send in the Next Wave' Each turn I remove them from play to satisfy A Thousand Souls, and the next turn they come back on!

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Calvinus wrote:Yeah, I agree about removing "A Thousand Souls." It is pretty unwieldy but it was meant to help balance the cost of including him at only 600 pts. It was based on the fluff for how 1,000 people are sacrificied in the EoM every day to keep him alive on the Golden Throne. Just having the imperium player(s) lose the game when the Emperor dies would be easier.

Well, that and he didn't actually eat 1000 people a day when he was more alive.

Oh, and that sword should be a force weapon. Go ahead and master-craft his two weapons and put him in Artificer Armor as well. No reason he isn't in the best gear.

He's also not worth 600, but points hardly matter.

ExarchCain wrote:He should be.....

OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!

So full of win it glows with awesomeness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, another idea among my playing group was similar, but post-heresy...
I mean, The Emperor is confined in the Golden Throne (dunno if correctly translated) more a rotting corpse than a human being anymore,
that brought us to mind the concept of a dreadnought, but a medium sized bipod did not fit the profile and since there already exist EMPEROR titans, the subsequent project was very close to obvious:

THE EMPEROR (OF MANKIND) GOLDEN THRONE TITAN.
I'm not good at tuning stats to godly heights, but some monolith-like AV 14 all around, plenty of structure points and/or special void shields, multiple (D-strength, large blasts) psychic shooting powers per turn rather than "ordinary" weapons and some sort of limitless range (neither minimum nor maximum) and, of course, that popular imperial troops-boosting set of rules so widely popular in this very thread...

Just a humble new approach to the idea...

Grakmar wrote:Additional rule for him:

Last, best hope for humanity: The God-Emperor is humanity's only hope for survival. If he is killed or removed from play, the controlling player immediately looses this game. Additionally, any other players playing an army from the IoM that are within earshot of this game immediately loose their games. In the event that both players in a game loose, then that game's win is credited to the nearest Xenos player.

I concur, he should be free with this rule replacing his points value.

The reasoning behind this is that if the Emperor takes to the field it wont be in lieu of a larger army, but with a larger army. there is no higher authority, no excuse for assets to be best elsewhere and he should have a retinue second to none, several units with the rank and file equating to guard and marine heroes, and that isn't touching the custodians yet.

Add in The Emperor may take a detachment of 5- 10 Custodes Ares Guard with the following stats:

Custodes Ares Guard (60 pts each)
ws bs s t w i a l d sv
5 5 4 4 1 5 2 10 2+/4++

Fearless

Ares armor: Finely crafted artificer armour with inbuilt displacer field.

Guardian Spear: Strikes at Str 6 in Close combat power weapons and has a shooting attack with a profile of a storm bolter.

Defenders of the Emperor: Any wounds allocated on the Emperor maybe taken by the Custodes instead.

bluedestiny wrote:Add in The Emperor may take a detachment of 5- 10 Custodes Ares Guard with the following stats:

Custodes Ares Guard (60 pts each)
ws bs s t w i a l d sv
5 5 4 4 1 5 2 10 2+/4++

Fearless

Ares armor: Finely crafted artificer armour with inbuilt displacer field.

Guardian Spear: Strikes at Str 6 in Close combat power weapons and has a shooting attack with a profile of a storm bolter.

Defenders of the Emperor: Any wounds allocated on the Emperor maybe taken by the Custodes instead.

Yes!! (SM honor guard that dont suck)

Perkustin wrote:I think the emperor would avoid such an encounter as the psychic feedback from summoning the power necessary would probably wipe out all his own troops.

Consider that Alpha++ Psykers can wipe out titans dwarfing the Hierophant relatively easily. Then consider how much more powerful the Emperor is than an Alpha++ psyker. He'd hardly break a sweat against a bio-titan, even with the Hierophant's mind combatting him.

I saw a good idea for a speical rule for the Emeror in somebodies signature once:

Might of the God Emperor - At the beginning of the game roll a die. On a 4, 5, or 6, you win the game. On a 1, 2, or 3, your opponent loses.

I'd say that the EMperor in addition to His base rules should have some exta bonus psychic attacks beyond the standard Librarian Marines. I mean, psychically, He is a living God. So, I propose that He gets His standard Psychic abilities, but in addition to using 4 Space Marine powers, He may also use ONE of the 'Living God' psychic abilities. In addition, let's bring Him up to 750 points to balance out these added things. (Yes, the Emperor costs the same as a Warhound Titan now) Also, can we give him some kind of nullifying enemy psyker abilities too? He is a Huge presence in the Warp...

Light of Mankind

The Emperor focuses His psychic energy into a massive blast of energy that blazes from His mind and purges enemies of the Imperium from His most Holy Sight.

S: D Range: Unlimited AP: 1 Assault 2, Blast

Fissure in the Materium

The Emperor gathers His power and tears open a hole in the fabric of space an time. This counts as a Vortex Grenade with a 24" range, except the Vortex will dissapear immediately after the shooting phase it is used, and will never reappear.

Y'Know, the emperor never lost a battle he was present in fluff-wise, and he would crush a warhound like so much tinfoil.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Devastator wrote:emperor of mankind 9001

living god: player with emperor may roll one live frag granade to opponents army once per turn

This one is good

ChrisWWII wrote:
Fissure in the Materium

The Emperor gathers His power and tears open a hole in the fabric of space an time. This counts as a Vortex Grenade with a 24" range, except the Vortex will never reappear.

Maybe a one time use or instead of the 4 other powers (or both) otherwise each turn a vortex grenades that never dissapears

I think I worded it wrong, I meant to say that the vortext fades and just doesn't ever come back. Allow me to fix that.

600-750 pts is decently fair for the Emperor. Daemon Angron is 500 pts with the following profile

WS10 BS6 S7 T6 W5 I6 A6 LD10 Sv 3+/4++

The Emperor is definitely on par and much more powerful than Daemon Angron. If Magnus could destroy Ork and Eldar titans like its cool, the Emperor could do way better. Fulgrim gets into a slugfest with a Wraithlord and wins. We're talking about a being that is thousands and thousands of years old. Magnus, the most powerful psyker after him, was shaking and his boots and knelt under the Emperor's gaze. He made 100,000 Space Marines and their Primarch kneel with his voice. Normal humans go mad just looking at him. Kharn describes him as defeating a xenos army that even Perturabo, a Primarch, could not defeat, and is desribed as doing it relatively easily. He defeats the most powerful villian Chaos could throw at him(though Horus did mess him up bad, but I remember reading the Emperor was holding back because he wanted to save his son). To put him(or a Primarch for that matter) with the stats of a chapter master is absurd.

ExarchCain wrote:He should be.....

OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw this coming from a mile away lol

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Consider that Alpha++ Psykers can wipe out titans dwarfing the Hierophant relatively easily. Then consider how much more powerful the Emperor is than an Alpha++ psyker. He'd hardly break a sweat against a bio-titan, even with the Hierophant's mind combatting him.

Hahahaha, no, no chance, not ever.

Is there even one occurrence of him doing such in the background? 23 real years of background and he's never done such a thing.

There were legions of titans attacking his palace during the siege of Terra. Wouldn't squashing one or two of those with his mind-bullets been useful? So why didn't he? Because he couldn't.

That was far out of scope with what his psychic powers actually were capable.

His one great psychic attack was to kill Horus, and it permanently damaged him to do it. The Emperor was many things, but cosmic blaster isn't one of them.

Honestly, how the idea that the Emperor was some kind of walking nuclear device got started is beyond anyone's idea. GW certainly has never hinted at that. It's just like the internet's infatuation with Chuck Norris.

Hahahaha, no, no chance, not ever.

Is there even one occurrence of him doing such in the background? 23 real years of background and he's never done such a thing.

There were legions of titans attacking his palace during the siege of Terra. Wouldn't squashing one or two of those with his mind-bullets been useful? So why didn't he? Because he couldn't.

Magnus destroys titans. Why wouldn't the Emperor be able to? And during the Battle fo Terra, he was busy in the Golden Throne room battling daemons attacking through the hole Magnus made.

That was far out of scope with what his psychic powers actually were capable.

His one great psychic attack was to kill Horus, and it permanently damaged him to do it. The Emperor was many things, but cosmic blaster isn't one of them.

The man made 100,000 SPACE MARINES along with their Primarch kneel with his voice, and made the most powerful psyker after himself (who destroys Titans with his powers) cower away like a dog with his tail between his legs with his gaze. Regarding Horus, the Emperor did not cripple himself with his attack. He was holding back because he wanted to save his son, while Horus ripped his arm off and broke his back. When a space marine(or maybe a custodes) walks in and Horus blasts him apart with his mind, the Emperor sees that Horus is beyond saving and THEN launches his psychic attack, scaring off ALL FOUR CHAOS GODS, and obliterates Horus's soul from existence.

I haven't seen one set of rules here that I've liked. The Emperor did not get his power from physical prowess - though he was undoubtedly exceptionally strong in human terms, because after several dozen thousand years, you'd have built some abs. But some genetic modification wouldn't have gone amiss either.

His real strength comes from his immense Psychic Power. This should be reflected in the rules. Also, his weapons are just simply a Runesword and Lightning Claw - not any of the craptastic weapons some of you have been coming out with. Admittedly, I was there too once , and while it's tempting to do 10 across the line, it just doesn't make any sense.

To realistically reflect him on the tabletop, you'd have to actually create a very extensive list of Psychic Powers and rules. He'd be at least several thousand points I should think, because of all the Psychic power he'd have. For example, he'd be able to kill anything with a psychic test - just like he did with Horus, except much more easily and perhaps not as extensively.

A few pointers to help you all:

Statline:
WS - 8
BS - 6
S - 4
T - 4
W - 5
I - 5
A - 4
LD - 10
Sv - 2+/3++

Runesword: This is a Force Weapon that adds +2 to the Emperor's strength.
Lightning Claw: This allows the player to re-roll failed rolls to wound.
The effect of these two weapons is to give him +1 attack in close-combat. The affects and rules of both weapons are cumulative - he can use them both, so the abilities are used simultaniously. They are also Master-Crafted, allowing the controlling player to re-roll one failed roll to-hit in close-combat per turn.

Naturally, he's immune to Instant Death - EW.

While many of you will say this is extremely underpowered, he'd have probably about thirty Psychic Powers that would all be far in excess of any that are currently in the game. For example, upping his 3++ to a 2++, giving him FnP, firing SD large blast shots, shooting a S8 AP2 assault 6 Smite and such. He'd be able to use any number of ranged psychic powers as he liked, up to a maximum of six Psychic Powers per turn, including his Force Weapon's ability.

Additional rules for the Emperor:

Isn't he in charge?: Any IoM unit that designates a unit including The Emperor must make a leadership check with a -2 modifier. If they fail, they fall under his sway and immediately come under the control of the Emperor player. The player gaining control of this unit can designate a new target for shooting and retains control of them for the remainder of the game. If KP or VP are being used in this scenario, full credit for destroying the unit goes to the Emperor's player.

HERESY!: A unit from the IoM that designates a unit including The Emperor and succeeds in it's leadership check may fire at The Emperor. However, before resolving it's shooting attacks, all friendly units within 24" of the firing unit must make a leadership check. Any unit that fails must fire all it's weapons at the unit attempting to shoot The Emperor. Weapon choices are made by The Emperor's player and all units count as having not moved for this attack. This is a special shooting attack that can be performed by units that have already fired this turn and does not effect their opportunity to later fire or assault.

For the Glory of Chaos: Any model from a Chaos Space Marine army or a Chaos Daemons army that succeeds in killing The Emperor is elevated to the highest ranks of Chaos. It counts as having a Mark from each Chaos God, can be given any upgrade available to any HQ choice, counts as a Daemon with a 4+ invulnerable save, and becomes an IC, all for no additional points. You must field this model as a HQ choice (for the cost you paid for the base model in the game where The Emperor was killed) the next time you play a Chaos army. As long as it survives the next game, you must continue to use it in this way until it is killed during a game.

I'm sorry, but I really think those are unnecessary and would be very annoying. You could have the first two for any IoM army Vs any other IoM army with a bit of modification.

Just unnecessary, I'm afraid.

I have to agree, those could be funny rules, but they aren't very good rules...they just screw things up even more and make things way more difficult. I do agree that he should haev a lot of psychic powers, but not so much an extensive list, but just able to use a lot, even saying that he can use multiple psychic shooting attacks a turn....Here is what I propose for rules at least.

Off the Charts
The Emperor is a God among Men, and His psychic talents are beyond anything that has ever been seen in a mortal being. He may use 6 psychic powers a turn, and may use multiple psychic shooting attacks each of which can be targeted independently. Additionally, He may reroll any psychic test that He has to take, and any and all attempts at blocking the Emperor's power automatically fails.


Psychic Powers
The Emperor has access to all psychic powers as described in the Space Marines, Daemonhunters and Imperial Guard codexes. In addition to these psychic powers, he has the following powers classified as Living God powers.

Soothing the Warp
The Emperor's psychic presence is enough to force even the Gods of Chaos back from the field of battle. If this power is sucesfully cast, then all friendly psykers automatically pass their psychic tests this turn, and all enemy psykers must roll 3d6 (picking the highest 2) and suffer Perils of the Warp on any doubles instead of just double sixes or double ones as the Emperor turns the Warp on Humanities enemies.

Smite
The Emperor focuses His psychic talents into a blast of immense power. This is a psychic shooting attack with the following profile.
S: D Range: Unlimited AP: 1 Heavy 1, Large Blast

Divine Fury
The Emperor gathers his strength and unleashes a lance of near unspeakable power, one that can not only slay a foe but drive their very essence from existence forever. This is a psychic shooting attack that is resolved as follows. Draw a line from the Emperor to any point on the bored. All models that this line intersects are 'hit' by the blast. All infantry, jump infantry, bikes, calvary/beasts, monstrous creatures and gargantuan creatures take d3 wounds, with no saves allowed. All vehicles take d3 penetrating hits (no saves allowed and void, holo and energy are ignored). No model killed by this attack can return, e.g. no WBB rolls for Necrons regardless of any other condition, Commisar Yarrick can not stand back up, etc. etc.

However, this type of power drains even the Emperor's mind. If this power is used, no other Living God powers may be used for either the current turn, or the next player turn.

Transcendence
The Emperor uses his powers to tear open the fabric of reality, opening a portal to the Warp. Treat this as a vortex grenade that can be used multiple times, however the vortex will fade at the end of the current shooting phase and will never reappear.


How does this sound, and how many points would we have to raise him up to to make this a not 100% broken unit?

Once again, except for that Divine Fury thing, he never used any kinds of abilities like that.

And he only did that once, ever, while he was dying.

The Emperor never displayed any kind of all-consuming psychic force powers. His psychic abilities were considered only on par with the weakest Farseers.

He was certainly hard to kill. And he was a super-genius and leader of men, but his regular psychic powers did not include destructive force.

The Emperor? Equal to a weak Farseer? The Emperor is probably the strongest psyker EVER born in the material universe. He can single handedly hold off all four of the Chaos Gods, and when he was fighting Horus he was able to completely obliterate Horus's soul. No farseer could do that.

The Emperor is far far stronger than even Eldrad, and could wipe the floor with even the greatest Farseer. The Eldar may be powerful, but none are living Gods like the Emperor is.

Not to mention, we have scant little information about the Emperor's actual battlefield performance except for his fight against Horus, and we know that against Horus he was holding back.....but we do know that he was probably stronger psychically than the Primarchs, and we have some information about how awesome they were. We also know that mere daemons of Chaos like Cherubael were able to destroy even Warlord Titans without breaking a sweat. The Emperor is more powerful than all four Chaos Gods COMBINED....if a simple pawn like Cherubael was able to do such damage, who knows what the Empero could have done?

Once again, except for that Divine Fury thing, he never used any kinds of abilities like that.

And he only did that once, ever, while he was dying.

The Emperor never displayed any kind of all-consuming psychic force powers. His psychic abilities were considered only on par with the weakest Farseers.

He was certainly hard to kill. And he was a super-genius and leader of men, but his regular psychic powers did not include destructive force.

.....Are you serious? Forcing the equivalent of one hundred Space marine chapters and THEIR PRIMARCH to their knees with his voice. No Farseer, including Eldrad(BTW, if he was that powerful, why did Fulgrim survive an encounter with him?). Forcing the most powerful psyker besides himself, who BTW broke into the ELDAR WEBWAY, and destroys titans, to stay locked in his seat, helpless, unable to move and then sent him running with his tail between his legs.

The Emporer needs an Achilles heel, a subtle weakness that occasionally trips him up on the tabletop as he was tripped “in real life”.

“Infamy, infamy, They’ve all got it in for me!”

Whenever wounded, the Emporer must roll a leadership check. On a result of 12, he realises that half his empire has turned against him, and falls into an existential crisis that takes his next player turn to recover from. During this time he cannot take any actions, while he considers the depth of his blindness.

We need to stop focussing on large-scale and/or handicapping rules for The Big E. One or two Area of effect rules, maybe, and perhaps any IoM units in the battle become Fearless or something.

The Emperor was born a Great Psyker. He has since had many millenia to improve his Psychic power.

The onus of proof is on you. Everything I've said has been backed up by actual background material.

Where's the background material that says the greatest psyker ever born ot the human race was "equal to the weakest Eldar farseer"? I do not believe such a thing existed. Otherwise, if the Emperor was so weak, why didn't Eldrad (the greatest Eldar psyker EVER, and who was alive at the time of the Horus Heresy) step in himself? Surely he'd realize that killing the Emperor and letting all of humanity fall to Chaos would be destructive to the Eldar, and it'd be better for him to NOT almost die.

Not to mention, I have shown how logically, the Emperor simply must (at least) have the power to destroy Titans psychically, and probably has a lot more power than that.

DarknessEternal wrote:The onus of proof is on you. Everything I've said has been backed up by actual background material.

Actually I can't think of a single point that you've made that is supported by the background or novels.

Until you come up with something that contradicts the fact that the Big E is more powerful psychically than Magnus the Red, who can whoop up on a titan by himself (A Thousand Sons, MacNeil, 2010), you're not making a whole lot of sense.

The onus of proof is on you. Everything I've said has been backed up by actual background material.

.....Show me something that says any Farseer is equal to the Emperor. Have you even read any fluff? The Horus Heresy novels? If Farseers were that good then why did ELDRAD HIMSELF, THE MOST POWERFUL FARSEER not obliterate Fulgrim, a Primarch. Magnus, who we see DESTROYING ELDAR AND ORK TITANS, is helpless against the Emperor's power. One hundred thousand Space Marines of the Word Bearers are helpless against his voice. If farseers were more powerful than that, then why did the Space Marines conquer the galaxy? Why are there any Space Marines alive today? If Farseers could make 100 Chapters of Space Marines helpless, surely a craftworld could lay waste to dozens of chapters with ease. As to his physical prowess, he defeated a few of the Primarchs who wouldn't bow right away, such as Leman Russ and Ferrus Manus.

CajunMan wrote:

The onus of proof is on you. Everything I've said has been backed up by actual background material.

.....Show me something that says any Farseer is equal to the Emperor. Have you even read any fluff? The Horus Heresy novels? If Farseers were that good then why did ELDRAD HIMSELF, THE MOST POWERFUL FARSEER not obliterate Fulgrim, a Primarch. Magnus, who we see DESTROYING ELDAR AND ORK TITANS, is helpless against the Emperor's power. One hundred thousand Space Marines of the Word Bearers are helpless against his voice. If farseers were more powerful than that, then why did the Space Marines conquer the galaxy? Why are there any Space Marines alive today? If Farseers could make 100 Chapters of Space Marines helpless, surely a craftworld could lay waste to dozens of chapters with ease. As to his physical prowess, he defeated a few of the Primarchs who wouldn't bow right away, such as Leman Russ and Ferrus Manus.

Space Marines didn't conquer the galaxy.

>>If Farseers were that good then why did ELDRAD HIMSELF, THE MOST POWERFUL FARSEER not obliterate Fulgrim, a Primarch

It's all part of some plan.

Explain to me how the Space Marines didn't conquer the galaxy? The Great Crusade brought 2 million worlds into the Imperium. That was done by the Space Marines.

Eldrad wanted to warn Fulgrim about chaos. It was not until Eldrad actually saw Fulgrim face to face that he saw he was corrupt.

CajunMan wrote:Explain to me how the Space Marines didn't conquer the galaxy? The Great Crusade brought 2 million worlds into the Imperium. That was done by the Space Marines.

Eldrad wanted to warn Fulgrim about chaos. It was not until Eldrad actually saw Fulgrim face to face that he saw he was corrupt.

Well if space marines did counquer the galaxy, then why are there still zenos races, they would all be non-existant if the Space Marines did conquer the galaxy... well except the tyranids since they are an outer source

There is a difference between 'conquering' and 'genocide'. Hitler conquered France, Belgium, Poland, but there are still French, Belgian and Polish people in the world. Similarly, especially with 40k, the fact is that saying you've 'conquered the galaxy' like the Imperium has, does not mean every single planet everywhere is controlled by you. No, it just means that you have a LOT of planets under your control. And remember, under the Emperor the Imperium was not so much 'DIE XENOS!!!' as 'All humans must be under our control'. So even if Marines conquered the galaxy, it's perfectly reasonable for xenos races to still exist.

I don't think that the IoM actually existed until after the Big E's death.

The IoM was founded by the Emperor. When he conquered the galaxy he was making the Imperium.

Perhaps. But I believe it's in M31 that the 'Age of the Imperium' begins, which would be after the Emperor's 'death'.

That is true, the Age of the Imperium began in M31, but the Imperium itself existed before that. Think of it this way, they call the 20th Century 'the American Century' but the United States existed before that, it's just that it finally gained enough power to start people naming a time period after it.

Ah, right.

By the way, does anybody know if Imperium is actually a word? According to all the spell checkers I've ever used, it isn't.

It is a word, except not in English. As I can tell it's Latin for 'Empire', and obviously the root of the word 'Imperial'

CajunMan wrote:Explain to me how the Space Marines didn't conquer the galaxy? The Great Crusade brought 2 million worlds into the Imperium. That was done by the Space Marines.

... .

That was a liberation movement, and it wasn't done just by Space Marines. The original conquest was not by Space Marines.

That...doesn't make sense. The Emperor would not have conquered the galaxy so fast without the Space Marines, if he could have at all without them. Before Old Night, humanity enjoyed great technology, better than what's around later, but they were also not unified. The Great Crusade brought these worlds together, whether they wanted to or not, and conquered countless more from xenos. The Imperial Army could not have done this. That's why the Emperor created the Space Marines, to conquer everything.

I don't write the fluff. I'm just saying what happened.

The Galaxy was conquered before the Space Marines were invented. What they did was to annex or liberate huge numbers of previously conquered human worlds and bring them under the rule of the Emporer.

If Space Marines could conquer the galaxy, why haven't they done it? They've had 10,000 years to try.

Except that the galaxy wasn't conquered by a unified force. It took thousands of years with different factions conquering. The Space Marines did it and a whole lot more in just 200 years.

As to why they haven't done it since the HH, the Legions were split up. Instead of having 20 Space Marine Legions under 20 Primarchs you now have 2 of those legions destroyed, half of the remaining legions are traitor, and now you have 1,000 chapters under the leadership of 1,000 chapter masters each with their own agenda. There is no more unity. The Emperor and the Primarchs are gone.

Gaming itself demands some balance, looks like perhaps nobody thought about confronting The Emperor Vs. something of His stature, or else the battle would reduce to Emperor's "controller" (other than Rick Priestley would be off context, BTW) I know this thread's name is not "emperor and similar god-like entities' profiles", but I read many posts of people getting close to wood simply by putting out what their fantasy or ideal of that character is in their minds with little to no intention of facing anything similar, just for the fun of amassing in a model an awesome profile with features capable of single-handedly dealing with any size of any army, and likely prevail...
Deploying The Emperor would imply not a battle, but a full crusade/campaign of ultra-apocalyptic dimensions, against some serious chaos/eldar/c'tan/ork gods avatar/s, tyranid hive mind impersonation... you know, something worth taking Him out of his throne into battle, not just turning Him into a weapon to fling towards conventional FOC's, whatever their size...

The Emperor could also work like a mega strategic asset, just picture Him aboard a great ship, orbiting and monitoring the planet where the battle is taking place, bringing in His outstanding tactic/strategic/psychic might to play for the benefit of His armies with no need for Him to descend (whether pre or post-heresy).
If The Emperor is positively stepping forth into battle, gather a collection of alike entities for each army to have their chance, then pit them for the battlefield to be shaken and epic to develop, rather than having Him trample over a far worse quality army.

If not, this thread is fun, but perhaps becoming sterile by the minute.

And that, you see, is why rules for entities like the Emperor are never goign to work. He is simply so ridiculouslly powerful that he becomes an 'I win' button for whatever side controls him. It's not really possible to create a 'fair' living god character.

Neat. I'd say give him some armour and guns All he's got is special rules. He's got a 2+ save..But why? Is he like an obliterator?

Here's my ruleset:

Profile: N/A

Rules:
Emprah: Everything on the table dies.

Points cost: 1 More than the game threshold.

Henners91 wrote:Here's my ruleset:

Profile: N/A

Rules:
Emprah: Everything on the table dies.

Points cost: 1 More than the game threshold.

Can we just sticky that?

It seems to sum up all of the attempts to make stats for "Teh Emprah!!!!!11!!one!1".

@Henners91:
Ok, Andy, work your magic and make it happen

ChrisWWII wrote:He is simply so ridiculouslly powerful that he becomes an 'I win' button for whatever side controls him. It's not really possible to create a 'fair' living god character.

Except nothing in the background material suggests he had that level of power while he was up and about. Whether or not he has that power now is not what we're talking about, since he's either become a Chaos God or a corpse (depending on which side of that argument you're on).

He simply never did anything in the background material to suggest he's got army destroying powers. The only time he actually shows up in a direct conflict against anything except his gene-encoded slaves, he's nearly killed by an Ork.

Except in the background, we KNOW he has the power to control the Astronomicon, maintain the human built sections of the Webway, etc. etc. and your proposal that he has somehow gained power during his internment in the Golden Throne also has no fluff precedent, nor does your previous claim that the Emperor was weaker than most Farseers.

He's called the God-Emperor for a reason.

DarknessEternal wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:He is simply so ridiculouslly powerful that he becomes an 'I win' button for whatever side controls him. It's not really possible to create a 'fair' living god character.

Except nothing in the background material suggests he had that level of power while he was up and about.

Except for the examples that have been pointed out to you in this thread you mean?

ChrisWWII wrote:Except in the background, we KNOW he has the power to control the Astronomicon, maintain the human built sections of the Webway, etc. etc. and your proposal that he has somehow gained power during his internment in the Golden Throne also has no fluff precedent, nor does your previous claim that the Emperor was weaker than most Farseers.

He built a device to run the Astronomicon. He built a device to create and access a Webway. Devices that run even without his involvement. His scientific knowledge is well precedented. None of it implies anything about army-destroying psychic powers.

By your logic, a tech-priest is more powerful than every Space Marine if he can build a plasma gun.

Monster Rain wrote:
Except for the examples that have been pointed out to you in this thread you mean?

There haven't been any yet.

I think one major mistake all of you are making is making his fluff rules necessarily represented on the tabletop. If you look at the fluff for any ultimate leaders of any army they look practically invincible. However they can have models representing their power in a scaled fashion.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:
Except for the examples that have been pointed out to you in this thread you mean?

There haven't been any yet.

Bwahaha.

CajunMan wrote:

Hahahaha, no, no chance, not ever.

Is there even one occurrence of him doing such in the background? 23 real years of background and he's never done such a thing.

There were legions of titans attacking his palace during the siege of Terra. Wouldn't squashing one or two of those with his mind-bullets been useful? So why didn't he? Because he couldn't.

Magnus destroys titans. Why wouldn't the Emperor be able to? And during the Battle fo Terra, he was busy in the Golden Throne room battling daemons attacking through the hole Magnus made.

That was far out of scope with what his psychic powers actually were capable.

His one great psychic attack was to kill Horus, and it permanently damaged him to do it. The Emperor was many things, but cosmic blaster isn't one of them.

The man made 100,000 SPACE MARINES along with their Primarch kneel with his voice, and made the most powerful psyker after himself (who destroys Titans with his powers) cower away like a dog with his tail between his legs with his gaze. Regarding Horus, the Emperor did not cripple himself with his attack. He was holding back because he wanted to save his son, while Horus ripped his arm off and broke his back. When a space marine(or maybe a custodes) walks in and Horus blasts him apart with his mind, the Emperor sees that Horus is beyond saving and THEN launches his psychic attack, scaring off ALL FOUR CHAOS GODS, and obliterates Horus's soul from existence.

ChrisWWII wrote:The Emperor? Equal to a weak Farseer? The Emperor is probably the strongest psyker EVER born in the material universe. He can single handedly hold off all four of the Chaos Gods, and when he was fighting Horus he was able to completely obliterate Horus's soul. No farseer could do that.

The Emperor is far far stronger than even Eldrad, and could wipe the floor with even the greatest Farseer. The Eldar may be powerful, but none are living Gods like the Emperor is.

Not to mention, we have scant little information about the Emperor's actual battlefield performance except for his fight against Horus, and we know that against Horus he was holding back.....but we do know that he was probably stronger psychically than the Primarchs, and we have some information about how awesome they were. We also know that mere daemons of Chaos like Cherubael were able to destroy even Warlord Titans without breaking a sweat. The Emperor is more powerful than all four Chaos Gods COMBINED....if a simple pawn like Cherubael was able to do such damage, who knows what the Empero could have done?

ChrisWWII wrote:Where's the background material that says the greatest psyker ever born ot the human race was "equal to the weakest Eldar farseer"? I do not believe such a thing existed. Otherwise, if the Emperor was so weak, why didn't Eldrad (the greatest Eldar psyker EVER, and who was alive at the time of the Horus Heresy) step in himself? Surely he'd realize that killing the Emperor and letting all of humanity fall to Chaos would be destructive to the Eldar, and it'd be better for him to NOT almost die.

Not to mention, I have shown how logically, the Emperor simply must (at least) have the power to destroy Titans psychically, and probably has a lot more power than that.

CajunMan wrote:

The onus of proof is on you. Everything I've said has been backed up by actual background material.

.....Show me something that says any Farseer is equal to the Emperor. Have you even read any fluff? The Horus Heresy novels? If Farseers were that good then why did ELDRAD HIMSELF, THE MOST POWERFUL FARSEER not obliterate Fulgrim, a Primarch. Magnus, who we see DESTROYING ELDAR AND ORK TITANS, is helpless against the Emperor's power. One hundred thousand Space Marines of the Word Bearers are helpless against his voice. If farseers were more powerful than that, then why did the Space Marines conquer the galaxy? Why are there any Space Marines alive today? If Farseers could make 100 Chapters of Space Marines helpless, surely a craftworld could lay waste to dozens of chapters with ease. As to his physical prowess, he defeated a few of the Primarchs who wouldn't bow right away, such as Leman Russ and Ferrus Manus.

Science be praised!

DarknessEternal wrote:
He built a device to run the Astronomicon. He built a device to create and access a Webway. Devices that run even without his involvement. His scientific knowledge is well precedented. None of it implies anything about army-destroying psychic powers.

By your logic, a tech-priest is more powerful than every Space Marine if he can build a plasma gun.

Uh...no. He built a device that ALLOWED him to control the Astronomicon, and built a device that allowed him to access the webway. If you notice, the reason the Emperor wasn't on the front lines of the battle for terra, was because (thanks to Magnus's psychic warning attempt) he had to stay seated on the GOlden Throne, using his psychic powers to keep it from opening and letiting a daemonic host loose inside the Imperial Palace itself. When he went to go confront Horus, he had to put Malcador the Sigillite, one of the greatest human psykers at the time on the throne, just to TRY and keep the door closed. By the time the EMperor returned, Malcador had been so weakened by the eeffor needed to JUST KEEP THE GATEWAY CLOSED that he was practically dead.

ANd it depending on what you mean by 'power' a Techpriest definitely has more power than any individual Space Marine technologically because he can build a plasma gun, but he also can not match a Space Marine in different areas of power. However, givent hat I've shown that even the devices the Emperor built needed a psyker of ridiculous strength to operate continuouslly, your point here is moot.

This thread is starting to become similar to a middle-school classroom argument...So the last truly useful post would be the last update to the emperor's statline on pg 2 from punkow.

The punctuation in that last post certainly reminds me of middle-school.

You happy now Monster Rain?

Are we cross?

Surely we wouldn't enter a thread with a comment like yours and be so thin-skinned that a little feedback would get us all upset.

The discussion at the time was relevant to the topic.

Horizon9 wrote:This thread is starting to become similar to a middle-school classroom argument...So the last truly useful post would be the last update to the emperor's statline on pg 2 from punkow.

I would say that this discussion is important, as establishing the Emperor's fluff capabilities is important to establishing his ingame capabilities. It's just like how a Leman Russ is supposed to be a nigh unstoppable battle tank, and thus has AV14, instead of AV10.

Magnus destroyed a titan, not the Emperor.

The Emperor was only a necessary part of the Golden Throne after Magnus broke it (incidently, but punching right through the Emperor's psychic defenses. Magnus also had prescient knowledge of Horus' betrayal and the Emperor was blind to it (along with Eldrad and his crew). There's a case that the Emperor wasn't even as good a psyker as Magnus in those two things).

The Emperor was able to make people he genetically tailored for, and ritualistically indoctrinated, for unswerving loyalty to himself kneel in a non-confrontational situation. In direct combat, he was nearly strangled to death by an ork. He couldn't even make one ork kneel, let alone blow that ork's army into smithereens.

There is simply one single event in which the Emperor was able to use his psychic powers offensively at the level you're describing, and that last act cost him his life.

DarknessEternal wrote:Magnus destroyed a titan, not the Emperor.

And if you read A Thousand Sons, you'd know that the Emperor is a more powerful psyker than Magnus.

Monster Rain wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Magnus destroyed a titan, not the Emperor.

And if you read A Thousand Sons, you'd know that the Emperor is a more powerful psyker than Magnus.

No, I'd know that people said he was a more powerful psyker. What I, nor anyone else, didn't see was any evidence it was true.

So you don't trust the source of the fluff that we are discussing?

The "people" you are referring to are the Emperor himself, and Magnus (who talks about knowing that the Emperor could kill him from the other side of the galaxy). Have you read the book?

Monster Rain wrote:
The "people" you are referring to are the Emperor himself, and Magnus (who talks about knowing that the Emperor could kill him from the other side of the galaxy). Have you read the book?

Right, captain arrogance himself and his loyal slave. No, I trust what neither of them "say". I'd trust absolutely anything that either "did".

If the Emperor could kill someone from the other side of the galaxy, how come he never once did so?

Ah, so you are trolling.

Just for those who are watching at home, I'm going to point out that Magnus was a traitor Primarch and at that time that he talks about the Emperor's psychic prowess he had already made the switch.

His not being killed by the Emperor from across the galaxy after he became a traitor is exactly the evidence to which I refer.

If you can find even one case of the Emperor using his psychic powers on an army-wide destructive level, feel free to PM me. Otherwise I'm checking out of the thread as it's devolved to the point of propaganda.

You have to say it is a strange thing.

If the Emporer was able to use his space magic to destroy one of his most powerful enemies, why didn't he?

The same reason he held back against Horus, I guess.

Whatever that was.

ChrisWWII wrote:He's called the God-Emperor for a reason.

Yeah, blind fanatism.

I'd believe that the Emperor probably didn't want to believe what was happening, and couldn't believe that his own sons had turned against him. That, and Magnus was probably unaware of the Webway project, which is why he sent the message in the first place...I'm guessing alot of the Emperor's strength had to go into closing and sealing the portal, which could explain why he never used his powers over long distances during the Heresy.

Thena gain, almost every psychic power we've seen both in-game and in fluff requires LoS...so maybe Mangus was just being over panicky.

Magnus destroyed a titan, not the Emperor.

Yea...and the Emperor's [i]gaze[i] made Magnus, a titan killer, locked to his seat unable to do anything.

The Emperor was only a necessary part of the Golden Throne after Magnus broke it (incidently, but punching right through the Emperor's psychic defenses. Magnus also had prescient knowledge of Horus' betrayal and the Emperor was blind to it (along with Eldrad and his crew). There's a case that the Emperor wasn't even as good a psyker as Magnus in those two things).

Magnus had knowledge because the Daemon told him, IIRC. To show Magnus that the best of them had fallen. Daemons hate the Emperor, why would they tell him? As to Magnus punching through the Emperor's defense, it took all his own power, all his Legion's psykers, AND thousands of sacrifices to try to get to the Emperor.

The Emperor was able to make people he genetically tailored for, and ritualistically indoctrinated, for unswerving loyalty to himself kneel in a non-confrontational situation. In direct combat, he was nearly strangled to death by an ork. He couldn't even make one ork kneel, let alone blow that ork's army into smithereens.

Just those he genetically tailored? How about normal human beings going insane by just looking at him. Or going blind. Or the xenos mentioned by Kharn in the World Eaters short story being completely annihilated by the Emperor's power when Perturabo could not beat them. As to the Ork, the the Ork was described as a very large and powerful Warboss, and also Horus says that they saved each other numerous times in the early Crusade. And myself or ChrisWWII said anything about the Emperor destroying armies. Our argument stems from you saying he is no more powerful than an Eldar Farseer, which is, quite frankly, ignorant.

There is simply one single event in which the Emperor was able to use his psychic powers offensively at the level you're describing, and that last act cost him his life.

.....After he took it easy on Horus to try and save him. After Horus obliterated the Marine that stepped into the chamber, the Emperor used his power....to chase off ALL OF THE CHAOS GODS AND OBLITERATE HORUS'S SOUL FROM EXISTENCE.

His not being killed by the Emperor from across the galaxy after he became a traitor is exactly the evidence to which I refer.

The Emperor didn't want to kill him from across the galaxy. He wanted Russ to bring him back in chains. Horus manipulated Russ into burning Prospero.

He also didn't want to destroy Horus because he thought he could save him. That's why the Emperor told the Assassin temples to stop trying to assassinate Horus.

If you can find even one case of the Emperor using his psychic powers on an army-wide destructive level, feel free to PM me. Otherwise I'm checking out of the thread as it's devolved to the point of propaganda.

Myself or ChrisWWII have made a claim of him destroying armies. Only that he is vastly more powerful than Magnus or Eldrad. Eldrad didn't know Fulgrim was corrupt until he saw him face to face and saw Fulgrim's daemon sword.

Go ahead and leave the thread. That's typical of people on the internet who have nothing to back up their claims. Next time you want to debate something, bring some evidence. Or a decent argument.

Monster Rain wrote:Are we cross?

Surely we wouldn't enter a thread with a comment like yours and be so thin-skinned that a little feedback would get us all upset.

The discussion at the time was relevant to the topic.

We're fine. I just felt that the topic was relevant, as we do need to establish what the emperor is capabl of. I just felt like this thread wasnt making any progress on that because we started to move towards the emperor being a powerful psyker, and then someone jutted in and said that Magnus was better.... At least we can say we've moved past ws10 bs10 train of thought. I still think a ws 6 bs5 s4 t4 w4 i5 a4 sv2/3++ at 600pts is reasonable. Give him a rule similar to sw saga of the warrior born, and maybe not all psychic powers, just sword of sanguines, living lightning, null zone, vortex of doom and something to make opposing models strike at i1. Sorry for the confusion

I do wonder why so few people frequent the Proposed Rules forum?

The reasoning contained within this thread is reason alone me suspects...

List for good emperor rules.

4 powers a turn? Check. Any power from Space marines, blood angels, space wolves, witch hunters, grey knights or imperial guard books? Check. Leadership increasing AoE? Check. 2+/4+ shadowfield? Check. Boatload of rerolls as i mentioned? Check.Toughness/strength above 4? No! (As i mentoned on PAGE 1!) Anything Strength D? No! (unless one shot).

New rule. 'Surrounded by tragedy'
Mortal action will not kill the emperor but those around him perish in their droves or are consumed by infighting. Each time the emperor takes his last unsaved wound do not remove him from play, instead roll a dice on a 2+ you must immediately remove an allied, non superheavy, unit from the board. On the roll of a 1 the, non superheavy, unit to be removed is chosen by the opponent.

You've just made the Emperor immortal. No thanks, buddy.

0 pts

Vortex Grenade

oh wait wrong thead

When discussing proposed rules it is quite likely that you will encounter people whose views don't mesh well or possibly even at all with your own ideas. Some degree of discussion which may ( or may not) lead to changes or compromises is, of course, an ideal outcome and very much the purpose of this board. If however you find yourself at loggerheads, completely unable to agree with the direction that, for example, a proposed set of stats for a fictional character is heading in.... then walk away. It's not going to cost you anything, you've haven't lost anything and it's not like you're going to be forced to play with those rules in your own home.

... yet anyway, but that's one or two forum upgrades away yet, so we can't really talk about that....

i think that because this guy has being in life support for the past however long you want to call it, he would be in no state to fight toe to toe.


which is exactly why he should be in a titan sized dreadnought that works like a transformer and can instantly turn into giant space ship with 2 billion massive gun things that fire 2000000000000 shots a turn at strength 20 that targets every unit on the battle field at once also it can unleash enough shots to end mankind in a huge ball of killy death shaped win! also it has a huge loud speaker to shout at the enemy you have lost the game. also it has a chuck noris gun that fires chuck norises

I assumed this is crusade emperor though reading through the thread i am not so sure.

BTW i kinda forgot the important part of my rule for the emperor here's an edit:

New rule. 'Surrounded by tragedy'
Mortal action will not kill the emperor but those around him perish in their droves or are consumed by infighting. Each time the emperor takes his last unsaved wound do not remove him from play, Instead take a leadership check (with no form of modification or re roll allowed) if passed immediately stand the emperor back up with a single wound remaining then roll a dice, on a 2+ you must immediately remove an allied, non superheavy, unit from the board. On the roll of a 1 the, non superheavy, unit to be removed is chosen by the opponent.

Perkustin wrote:I assumed this is crusade emperor though reading through the thread i am not so sure.

Most people assume that it's the "Up-an-walking-around" Emperor. You were right.

The stats for the current Big E would be

0-0-1-1-1-1-0-10

On a roll of a 1, the Emperor poops his pants.

Monster Rain wrote:

Perkustin wrote:I assumed this is crusade emperor though reading through the thread i am not so sure.

Most people assume that it's the "Up-an-walking-around" Emperor. You were right.

The stats for the current Big E would be

0-0-1-1-1-1-0-10

On a roll of a 1, the Emperor poops his pants.

Such a great example of leadership for the imperium

And we wonder why it's so screwed up.....

umm I may be wrong but wasnt the emperor more powerful physically than the primarchs?

and didn't sanguinious pick up a bloodthirster and break him across his knee.

so wouldent the emperor need really high str and toughness...

Apoc only, 500 pts, can only be used with a force of 7k pts+ (He would only be with the largest of forces)

Humbaba wrote:umm I may be wrong but wasnt the emperor more powerful physically than the primarchs?

He was not.

Though he could have easily used his Psychic power to increase his physical strength..

Nonetheless, he just defeated the Primarchs with skill and not brute strength. After all, he's got over 30,000 years of experience behind him.. which would probably actually make him about WS 9 or 10 if you think about it; considering there's a ~10,000 year-old Deldar character who has WS9. Even if the only reason she's alive is to kill, the Emperor's got a lot more years on her so I'm pretty sure he'll know how to handle himself in a fistfight, with a sword, pistol or trusty old beatstick.

Makes sense.

Melee actually does rely on comparing skill levels.

So, either we just slap on WS10, or perhaps WS8 and always re-roll to hit, or perhaps WS10 and always re-rolling to hit.

Combined with Psychic powers and whatnot.. you definitely don't want to be on the receiving end.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:considering there's a ~10,000 year-old Deldar character who has WS9.

There's also an Eldar pskyer as old as the Emperor (at least) and he's only WS 5.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:considering there's a ~10,000 year-old Deldar character who has WS9.

There's also an Eldar pskyer as old as the Emperor (at least) and he's only WS 5.

That psyker didn't go man-to-man with primarchs and hold his own.

Didn't Eldrad get chased off by Fulgrim?

DarknessEternal wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:considering there's a ~10,000 year-old Deldar character who has WS9.

There's also an Eldar pskyer as old as the Emperor (at least) and he's only WS 5.

Eldrad is 10,000 Years old or so, meaning he was born in M30 or around there.

The Emperor was born in 8000 B.C.

You do the math. I don't think it's silly at all to give the Emperor WS10, especially since WS is how skilled you are with your weapons.

ChrisWWII wrote:Eldrad is 10,000 Years old or so, meaning he was born in M30 or around there.

The Emperor was born in 8000 B.C.

You do the math. I don't think it's silly at all to give the Emperor WS10, especially since WS is how skilled you are with your weapons.

And the Emperor has been sitting on his can for the last 10k, right?
Still, it wouldn't be unreasonable to give the best, prime example of a species WS8 or better. Given Lilith H's "A League above" or whatever it is, the Big E ought to be WS8+.

I though we were assuming this was pre-Heresy, otherwise what would the point be? We're making rules for when he was walking around and all that nice stuff.

I'm assuming it's M.30. Middle of the Great Crusade.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Humbaba wrote:umm I may be wrong but wasnt the emperor more powerful physically than the primarchs?

He was not.

And again you provide no proof to back up your statements.

CajunMan wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Humbaba wrote:umm I may be wrong but wasnt the emperor more powerful physically than the primarchs?

He was not.

And again you provide no proof to back up your statements.

The Emperor wins every test of strength against the Primarchs so yeah he's more physically poweful

Remember guys, we have to do this proportionally. For example, a S5 model is described as strong enough to break a Space Marines' back with its bare hands.

Sanguinius broke a Bloodthirster's back.. so, S7 for Primarch's then? Perhaps to a greater or lesser degree for some of them, of course, depending on Psychic powers, weapons and wargear.

Therefore, the Big E would either be, depending on your argument, less than S7, equal to S7 or just above S7.

So, to expand on that, if you believe the Emperor should not have a higher strength than the Primarchs, then S4, 5 or 6 for you. Those who reckon he's either just marginally stronger or weaker, S7. Those who say he was a lot stronger: S8.

S7 seems to be a fair thing for me. As for the rest of his stats....

WS10 BS5 T4 S7 W4 A5 2+/3++

We can add a few psychic rules too to represent how hard it'd be to actually land a shot on him, or shots just being reflected, but let's see if we can agree on things one line at a time.

In terms of use in a game it doesnt matter what profile you give him as long as he is more powerfull than any other character in the army and the enemy has Horus, Horus should be more physically powerfull and Emperor more powerfull in the psychic department but they should be as close to equal in overall ability as possible.
no points cost as Emperor and Horus cancell each other out.


In terms of background im not up to date with the fiction or even the newer rule books but i think the defining Emperor descriptions are in the original realm of chaos books.


Chaos gods are infinately more powerfull than the Emperor.
Despite stats to the contrary Necron star gods are probably next in line along with Gork and Mork and Eldar gods (no not the Avatar).
Independent demons/nacent powers/Emperor (see realm of chaos).
Then we get Demon primarchs.
Then greater demons and Primarchs.
Demon princes.




Oh and basically the Emperor "now" is essentially a light house so can do nothing in a battle.

<thread terminated; rest well, and sleep long - we will not allow another to disturb you again>