My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
What's more likely to happen is that some super duper special smart Ad mech guy is going to show up with his magic wrench say a long forgotten prayer thing and wave it and the Golden Throne will be as good as new.
Or to make it more grimdark he manages to repair it a little to keep it going but no one knows how long it will last.
n0t_u wrote:
Or to make it more grimdark he manages to repair it a little to keep it going but no one knows how long it will last.
In 10,000 years they can't work out how to fix up an IV line to keep Guilliman going until his injury can be repaired, I don't think something as sophisticated as the Golden Throne is going to be fixed by any of the morons of the admech anytime soon.
Actually i thought the death of the Emperor would unleash the power/energy inside the warp destroying chaos gods... Am i completely lost? Throw me some links to check it out if possible or go through the prophecy please if its cool
fluffywyvern wrote:My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
Advancing the storyline?!?!? HERESY!!!!!
We've been in the 41st millenium for a while, not just for 5th edition. Don't think it's really that likely that they'll kill off the Emperor, it's right up there with the Void Dragon waking up...it'll take extreme amounts of excellent storytelling to pull it off without it seeming ridiculous...far easier just to leave it how it is.
However, certainly an interesting idea. I'd like to see the Space Marine/Chaos boxset regardless of anything else Limiting the big boxes you can buy to play straight away by only having two available races (Three if you include Battle for Macragge) has always seemed a poor choice to me, but you need a decent setting to build it I suppose. Battle for Terra, with older marks of power armor....I'd buy that.
Imo the primarch's would be to overpowered for anything less then a game of apocalypse, itd be interesting for them to return though or at least to have some more info on how theyve progressed. If the emperor dies wouldnt the astronomicon die out ? making warp travel impossible ?. Unless they just turn the golden throne into some sacrifice machine that they keep tossing psykers into to power like coal into a furnace . Personally Id be interested in seeing the emperor become a complete warp entity, and maybe some mixed up reports of people similar to him in appearance appearing at dire battles and saving the human forces and disappearing just as quickly. Oh and I really want to know what the Sanguinor actually is its killing me , and maybe some confirmation if Leman Russ / Jaktai Khan / Vulkan are alive and kicking, I mean its hinted there still alive and will return for the end of days but maybe a sighting or a casefile or some interaction between them and there chapters to fill them with hope would be kinda reassuring I guess.
ringthorn1 wrote:Wait? Who is the starchild everybody is talking about. can i find him in the rulebook
The Starchild theory is detailed in the 3rd edition rulebook, the Eye of Terror novel, as well as a series called the Inquistion War Trilogy from Black Library. It may be detailed elsewhere, but that's where I've seen it.
In effect, it's the belief of some that when the Emperor dies and sheds his mortal remains on the Golden Throne, he'll be reborn. His soul is already partially in the warp, in the manner of the shaman who joined to become him, perhaps being begun by the compassion he cast off to strike down Horus, and needs the remainder to complete the 'birth'. This however, cannot happen while he's still tied to the Golden Throne. This may or may not be in the form of a warp entity, or another being much as he was before being placed within the Throne, it depends on how you read it (Most read it to be as a warp entity capable of neutralising the Chaos powers as it states in Eye of Terror).
The Emperor will never truely die. The Emperor Protects after all.
The Starchild theory is detailed in the 3rd edition rulebook, the Eye of Terror novel, as well as a series called the Inquistion War Trilogy from Black Library. It may be detailed elsewhere, but that's where I've seen it.
Yeah, its in the Inquisition War; I'm reading that currently.
ringthorn1 wrote:Wait? Who is the starchild everybody is talking about. can i find him in the rulebook
The Starchild theory is detailed in the 3rd edition rulebook, the Eye of Terror novel, as well as a series called the Inquistion War Trilogy from Black Library. It may be detailed elsewhere, but that's where I've seen it.
Its also in a really old WFRP book called "Realms of Chaos - The lost and the Damned". Some pretty cool fluff.
The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Oh please let this happen. I'd pay good money for that.
While it would seriously be a good move for GW to do something new and exciting like advance the storyline... I can't help but think that no matter what they do none of you will be satisfied with it.
Just look at all the hate that follows every codex release / new models and you'll see that It's probably safer for GW not to rock the boat.
Props to them if they actually do move the storyline forward though.
I think people don't realize what would happen if the storyline moved forward and the Star Child cycle was complete - no more 40K . I don't see why people can't move pass the embarassing chapter of 40K history known as the Squats.
If they moved it past the emprah's death I think thet it would become all marines all the time as they would likely go on a crusade to try and claim worlds for the IoM. While this doesn't seem to make sense, take a quick look at the codex line up.
Storm Lord wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Oh please let this happen. I'd pay good money for that.
Granted, but the missile does a Crimson Fists and takes the Squats along with the marines.
I dont think GW would have the balls, as if you look at it how many of there customers play sapce mareins? LOADS! how many of them are blue panzys( )? LOADS! By doing this they could bite the hand that feeds them...
fluffywyvern wrote:My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
1) => all Gates broken.
2) => most human worlds overrun with demons
3) => exile Mankind, leave this Galaxy and start anew, lead by the Primarchs.
4) => yes, multiple chaos codices.
5) => smaller species extinct, Eldar leave too, Tau squatted because Nids/orks/chaos/necrons are still there, IoM discontinued.
6) => orks, evil elfs, bugs and robots isn't so interesting. GW finally collapsed.
7) => new company just wants to loot the carcass of 40k : reboot game as WH 30k. New kits? NO, new repacked old kits...
or
1) => Emperor just lost his anchor in the material realm
2) => chaos offensive.
3) => campaign to contact the "lost" Emperor.
4) => C'tan takes over Mars and most of the IoM.
5) => rise of the C'Tan levels the threats again, chaos shut off because the "great plan" is in place and running.
6) => last stand of smaller species and newbies like Tau. Eldar leave.
7) => Necrons destroy every single Hive fleet. Infected planets are moved into the next black hole.
8) => Necron use a fungizid to remove orks.
9) => finally the campaign has success and contact with the Emperor is re-established.
10) => obviously the glourious leader of Mankind didn't twiddle his thumbs where he made unwillingly "holidays", a virus is spread through Necron systems.
11) => Necrons can't stop dancing, the few C'Tan cannot withstand the wrath of the enslaved.
12) => Galaxy is a burning wreck. Eldar ask if its over, so they could return. Emperor orders them to be chained to the still dancing necrons for all eternity.
@Fluffwyvern: I think it would throw to much dissaray into the universe for GW to do it just like the Orks will never entirely unite, the Eldar will never be wiped out etc. They have to keep balance in the universe to keep the wars going especially for the major factions.
@cadbren: Guillimen is dead, it isn't like he was about to die when they put him in stasis and they where just waiting to find a way to heal him. It would be sticking a I.V in a corpse that's just perfectly preserved.
@ChronoCupcake: Who is Jaktai Khan? don't you mean Jaghatai Khan?
Personally I woulden't care from a fluff standpoint if the Emperor died. But as has been said if the Emperor dies then the Imperium goes with him as the Astronomican is gone and Imperial forces would be isolated and destroyed one by one by the predators of the galaxy. That would take out 8 of GWs armies (BT, BA, SM, SW, DA, IG, DH, WH did I miss any?) most of which are fairly popular even if a few are somewhat old. Sure there would be pockets of the Imperium still fighting and such and they could travel outside of the Warp but that would take ages so there would be no reason to have those armies anymore.
As if they would kill off the Emperor now. He's too much an integral part of fluff. If they did bump him off they'd need a major fluff shakeup of how things are going. And that would be something the lines of either:
a) the Emperor dies. End of. Imperium goes mental, more worlds fall to xenos/heretics/rebellions. High Lords and =][= among other factions row for suprememcy while foes close in faster than before.
b) Emperor dies and the starchild theory is put into effect. Still instability throughout imperium, more worlds lost anyway, but it's not as severe.
Whatever theory GW create they will inevitably make it look like the Imperium is losing bigtime. As in theres deamons, nids, crons, eldar, DE, and orks just ganging up on them and taking worlds by the dozen.
GW only have to come out with some bollocks like the Emporer is dead and the Astronomican is going out in 100 years if Space Mariens don't fight hard to discover the new Emporer. Blah blah blah.
hum...this story has been held in place for 20+ years at this point, I dont think its going any where, besides there is so much time to cover and fill as it is when characters can live for hundreds of years there are tons of stories to tell before the God-Emperor finally takes his long cat nap
Let me elaborate on why, theoretically, I don't think it would be that much of a stretch for GW to bump off the Emperor.
Like it or not, the Imperium isnt really run by the Emperor anymore, he is more a figurehead and a source of great power. But the day to day stuff is managed by the Senatorum Imperialis or Council of Terra and all the other subdivisions off that.
If the Emperor dies/ascends into godhood, there would be great mourning, wailing, gnashing of teeth, etc but the council would hold things together. That is, if the council decides to reveal he has died.
Of course, the psychic boom unleashed by his death in the warp would garner the attentions of the Nids, Eldar and most importantly Chaos and all would react in their various ways depending on circumstance. IMHO though, instead of weakening these armies, the event would make them stronger as they begin to sense a weakness in mankind to be exploited. The renewed activity with some of these armies would quite rightly cause previously owned Imperial worlds to be captured by xenos forces and, in response, the council will allow the formation of new crusades in order to rid the galaxy once again of heretics and unite mankind.
While I agree this story would be a bold move, it really does work as a catalyst to some epic confrontations.
The problem for GW is the "day after" aspect of this. While a Emperor dying/Terra invaded campaign would be exciting and see a boost for 40k, it would eventually die out and fans would feel compelled to go back to the status quo. The constant deaths and rebirths of superheroes in American comics is pretty much a reflection of the same dilemma.
He can't die, the psychic feedback would kill half of the loyal astartes and the imperium would fall. Just because the star child is born, he's not going to waltz up to the lords of terra and present himself. If anything, Lion el'Jonson will wake up from inside the rock and succeed the emperor. Either that or just kill a ton of traitors/warp spawns/xenos. Russ may pop out of the warp as well.
And yet, when other primarchs died, their legions didn't necessarily suffer for it aside from lack of effective leadership.
While the Imperium would definitely falter, dunno if it would collapse. Depends on if the Emperor's soul just plain vanishes, or if he becomes a godlike entity in Empyrean. If it's the latter, Chaos would still have a hard time fighting the Imperium, because of the Emperor's interference. If the Emperor simply vanished outright, Chaos would suddenly not be held in check quite so easily, and attack humanity full force-- not necessarily through overt attacks but through corruption.
The problem is the astronomicon. If it doesn't stay lit, humanity's only strength, its incomprehensible vastness, becomes irrelevant, as it can no longer shuffle its forces about to swat anything that looks at it askew. Which means the Cadian gate stops getting resupplied and reinforced and the Tyranids no longer face even the minor forces required to slaughter the mindless beasts by the millions.
Cypher, finally makes it to earth (as his pattern of travel seems to be taking him there). With that sword he carries on his back he kneels before the Emperor to ask forgiveness on behalf of the Lion who was fence sitting during the Heresy. Knowing what must be done he kills the Emperor to release the Star child.
The great psychic backlash that was expected never materielises (see Y2k and other doomsday prophecies for references) as the star child becomes the new beacon.
The current High Lords of Terra and the Eclesiarchy are insensed. their grip on power undone they seek to minimise the effects by denying that anything has happened and declaring anyone who states otherwise as heretics. But the jig is up and the Imperium is plunged into a civil war unseen since the Heresy. both sides claim to be fighting for the Emperor.
Legions begin to reform. specifically the Blood Angels who combine with their successors (more so for survival). the Lion is reawakened by these events and begins his path of redemption, fighting for the star child. The Alpha Legion, seeing the reality of what has happened and their reason for fighting the Imperium to begin with realised, declare for the star child and reject chaos. The Space wolves become insensed at the lies that are truly revealed and attack Titan with the goal of destroying the Inquisition. The Grey Knights and Spacewolves fight a bitter battle and are mutually decimated, leaving only scattered remnants of their former selves. Magnus begins a quest to confront the Star Child, secretly hoping that he is the key to his chapter's slavation.
Other renegade chapters take the opportunity to launch a new black crusade. Xenos close in.
The Realm of Ultramar isolates itself from the Imperium taking with it scores of successor chapters and declare that they are the true keepers of Humanity's legacy and fortify themselves against all takers. Refugees stream towards that area of space.
The stage is set. Three factions of humanity fighting for survival. The old remnants of the Imperium. The Star Child's supporters. The isolationist realm of Ultramar.
The possibility of redemption for the Thousand Sons, the Alpha Legion and the Dark Angel. And everyone surrounded by xenos, daemons and squats (ok ok, not squats.).
While some of the more corrupt individuals in the Ecclesiarchy might fight against the Emperor, I think the more devout ones (especially the Sisters) would support the starchild. Sisters are touched by His Divine Majesty after all.
Mind you, I favor a Thorian perspective to the Emperor's activities since his internment upon the Golden Throne.
If the Astronomican disappeared it would impede the IoM's ability to make long range jumps. This wouldn't make a lot of difference strategically since most forces are already stationed in the areas where trouble is expected.
Think of a draughts board (checkers to the Americans). The Astronican allows you to move a piece right across the board in one jump. Without it, though you can move a piece one square, and another piece one square, and so on, so you end up with an empty square in one corner and a full square in the diagonal opposite.
Long range message transmission might suffer. I'm not clear how that ties into the Astronomican.
On the plus side, the Tyranids use the Astronomican for homing, so their advance would be slowed and this might compensate for other ill effects.
Regarding the situation with Chaos. There is an image of Chais being the water behind a tall dam. When the dam breaks, the water spills free in a devastating flood. However, perhaps Chaos is like a gang of men pushing at a castlle door. If the door is suddenly flung open, they all fall down and have to pick up and re-organise themselves before they can advance.
I'm just suggesting lines of potential fluff which could be used to explain how the death of the Emporer would not lead to an immediate collapse of the IoM.
Astropaths don't need the astronomican to communicate, so it wouldn't really harm communication. Warp instability might though, and with Chaos jumping at the bit after the Emperor's death, that might cause more instability than normal.
of chourse it would hurt comunication, it is hard for astropaths to communicate over planeteary distances (even magnus had trouble), the astronimica is needed to navigate ships through the warp, even though if the tyranids reach the astronomica I doubt they would be able to withstand the intesity of it.
There is no intensity of the Astronomican. You need to be psychically attuned to sense it, and it has practically the same strength throughout the galaxy.
Simply mathematics shows that the Astronomican must not obey an inverse square or even an inverse law of signal strength, otherwise ships could not go within hundreds of light years of Earth.
My opinion, no I find it unlikely the emperor will die because I believe the realm of 40k to be designed for sort of "In Fiction Stasis". However I've only started 40k stuff 1.5 years ago so I could be totally perceiving the passage of time wrong.
The way I see it the stories of the Starchild, the Eldar god of the dead, all are created to be a sort of fictional beacon of hope so as to create a more compelling universe narrative. Something that is dangled in front of us but in all practicality not there.
For the more fluffy and fun theorizing. The Imperium would be totally ruined by the Astronomicon, and thus if the emperor died and the status quo didn't just revert (like there had been no change at all) the Imperium as we know it would contract violently, or vanish.
Without the Great Beacon travel would become slower and definitely more dangerous. The Imperium, which spans around a trillion worlds (Codex Space Marine notes there being 1 Marine to a million worlds, same sentence describes there being around 1 million Marines) could not stay cohesive. Even now the Imperium is described as barely cohesive with years being required to traverse it imagine if that got worse.
The Beacon is THE most important thing to holding the Imperium together as is. It's what makes the relatively centralized galactic-spanning pseudo-feudal empire possible. It'd be like taking your modern country (mine being the US) and cutting all transportation down to say 20 miles an hour and communication down to a maybe 200 mile range (as it is to my understanding that Astropaths, aka the psychic telephone, are soul-bound to the Emperor-Astronomican)
Automatically Appended Next Post: And because I'm long winded.
Let's not forget that the emperor was attempting to give Humanity access to the webway to make his empire cohesive (more so than it is at the moment). I'd say the Imperium is at the growth limit for it's current level of transportation/communication technology judging by the description of the way things are today.
@moonshine maybe the tyranids couldn't withstand the Glow of the Astronomican (perhaps scouring their bestial minds from the direction of the Hive Mind), but they don't need to invade Earth to stop it. Simply disrupt the Psyker Harvest, and the Flame will dwindle leaving humanity to Void and its Maw, NOM NOM.
Honestly as I think about it more, a more collapsed Imperium would still keep a pretty compelling universe, and could keep the game pretty much the same (without making it seem overly unfluffy). As a business though, I'd be scared to introduce that sort of change... Unless I saw it as an opportunity. (would you rather shoot with a twin linked on BS 5 or just auto-hit)
Kilkrazy: I was refering to the effect it would have on the shadow in the warp, I imagine it would be like pointing a torch at a shadow, and if the shadow of the warp died I think the nid would die with it
What could really boost sales I think if the emporer did die is this:
His death does create a wave of instability within the Warp, thereby handicapping Nids and Chaos, instead of making them stronger. Maybe even Warp travel could be severely handicapped, making it difficult for Orks as well.
While there is a sort of pause in battles between Xenos and man, men begin to vie one another for control. The Imperial Guard and different chapters of Space Marines fight one another. The Star Child Never appears, or it needs a human host, so the various leaders of the sects vie with one another to gain control, so that their leader can be the new leader Emporer...each sect feels it is the best choice to lead, as once the Warp stabilizes the Xenos will be striking stronger than ever.
Would be amusing if the Emperor used the body of what was going to be a future Living Saint (which are apparently almost exclusively female, according to the latest Dark Heresy info on the subject) to reborn, and focused on using the Sororitas afterwards instead of the Astartes because of the former's loyalty to him even after his apparent death.
Effectively making it the Emperor / Sisters / Frateris Militia a fourth faction, along with the split between administratum, mechanicus, and astartes.
moonshine wrote:Kilkrazy: I was refering to the effect it would have on the shadow in the warp, I imagine it would be like pointing a torch at a shadow, and if the shadow of the warp died I think the nid would die with it
Well, if it worked that way. I don't think it works that way, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:Would be amusing if the Emperor used the body of what was going to be a future Living Saint (which are apparently almost exclusively female, according to the latest Dark Heresy info on the subject) to reborn, and focused on using the Sororitas afterwards instead of the Astartes because of the former's loyalty to him even after his apparent death.
Effectively making it the Emperor / Sisters / Frateris Militia a fourth faction, along with the split between administratum, mechanicus, and astartes.
That would be fun.
It wouldn't go down well with the target market, though.
Melissia wrote:Would be amusing if the Emperor used the body of what was going to be a future Living Saint (which are apparently almost exclusively female, according to the latest Dark Heresy info on the subject) to reborn, and focused on using the Sororitas afterwards instead of the Astartes because of the former's loyalty to him even after his apparent death.
Effectively making it the Emperor / Sisters / Frateris Militia a fourth faction, along with the split between administratum, mechanicus, and astartes.
That would be fun.
It wouldn't go down well with the target market, though.
Starting to smell like a version of Female Space Marines!
Seriously though, they really, REALLY should advance the time line for 6th edition.
By a bit too, not a little burp!
And really, sales (or lack thereof) would indicate that SOMETHING drastic might help!
moonshine wrote:No the emprorer will live because if he died there would be no more impirium and gw would not be able to sell space marines or guard
okay okay... REALLY PEOPLE??!!
I mean... I know that GW gets a lot of well deserved grief for just about... everything... But they are also the people who have led how many thousands of us to take for canon that a guy sitting on a golden toilet for 10k years still has enough power to maintain the astronomicon, appoint saints, eat psykers, etc. Is there any doubt that they could make us swallow something equally implausible if it meant that they could still sell us SM and IG and all that other imperial goodness?
I think GW could find someway to keep the IoM together by having some Badbutt psyker dedicating his life/existence to the astronomicon *cough* Tigurius*Cough*, though I could see it being hush hush as far as the emperors death goes(wouldn't it be funny if hes actually been dead for a couple thousand years, and the High council is spoon feeding the masses to keep loyalty), so I think it's possible, do I think gw would need to kick some writers in the head to get it to happen YES!!
99999999999999.M41 And one more screw falls out of the Golden Throne and the Adeptus Mechanicus says they really really really really don't know how to fix it now its definately going to stop working really soon like you have no idea its right on the brink of just falling apart completely.
Wardragoon wrote:Well theyve had 10000 years to get plasma where it doesn't cook the user, thus far they've failed.
well they don't make new techs... they just preserve the ones they already have. It's normal then that plasmas have not been improved from the Great Crusade.
For what regards the storyline, that would be...awesome. But it's too radical. People would yell like mad that the Emperor died and the fluff in it would NEVER... EVER be right for everyone. There would be complaints rather than "Hey that's cool we have new things to play with the background of our armies! Dammit the Emperor's dead... what should we do now ?"
I'm just thinking about possible campaigns too... that would be. COOL.
GW should do what White Wolf did to the old World of Darkness setting. They ended the universe over a series of campaigns and gave you multiple options as to how everything ended. After that they rereleased the franchise with a clean slate to move forward.
Hey guys, let's get back to what this thread was created for. Is the emperor going to die, not what will happen if he does. What would make gw do it, ( ex. Sell more xenos models and push away from marines.) or make them hesitant towards doing it( they wouldn't have such an easy time selling IoM models)
Can't see any reason for GW to advance the story more than they have - its a risky thing to do and for the Compnay I can't see any major gain?
depending on how much you consider BL fluff to be "canon" then several books are written in the next millenium looking back on theevents of the lat 41st millenium and commenting on events like "the later wars against the Tryanids".
so like everything else its highly unlikely (till it happens)
I'm honestly not a fan of this decision and I can see why GW wouldn't to do this. If you think about it, it could be really cool for veterans of warhammer 40k. But for new comers it wouldn't be nearly as intersting as the current situation. I think the emperors situation is cool and unique and just killing him off would be kinda... lame.
sorry to dig up a thread thats been dormant longer than the necrons but with 6th ed just around the corner this is something that needs to be considered again.
makes me sad how much lore is not being taken into consideration here.
has anyone considered what part arik taranis would play?
has anyone considered what would happen to the golden throne?
for those of you who dont know him, arik terranis was the commander of the thunder warriors. they were supposedly killed to the last man at the end of the war of unification but they were actually killed by the emperor due to the threat they posed. arik and a handfull escaped. arik took the gene seed genetic coding from some traitor marines and made himself a fully fledged space marine during the horus heresy. current whereabouts are unknown.
again, for those of you who dont know its true purpose, the golden throne IS NOT a life support machine. when the emperor used a huge psychic attack to obliterate horus's very soul (which is why he cannot be ressurected by chaos) the emperors crippled body was found by dorn. the emperor asked him to jury rig the golden throne into a makeshift life support. the golden throne is actually the biggest webway gate ever made, allowing a warhound class scout titan to walk through upright. due to the imperium being unable to create wraithbone, the webway had to be pretty much rebuilt, also due to it having fallen apart during the battles between the necrons and the old ones, but thats another story. the emperor had to use his psychic power to protect the workers inside the webway from chaos, hence why he left the great crusade. if they had suceeded then entire legions would have been able to go anywhere they want instantly, considerably faster and safer then warp travel.
so, back on topic. will the emperor die and if so, what are the consequences?
firstly, how he would die. most of you seem to know that the golden throne is failing. due to its state of repair and due to it not being designed to sustain a god.
the first question is. does he even need sustaining?
the emperor through worship has become a being of true god-like power in the warp. he can protect those who worship him, he supposedly created the warp storm known as the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath that appeared in the Ultima Segmentum during the Age of Apostasy to attack the tyrant High Lord Goge Vandire. it is also rumoured that the extent of his power at the golden throne is so great that he can speed or slow the passage of time within the imperial palace. surely if his mortal form was to die then the emperor would have so much power that he could become a god that no longer requires an anchor. basically, the star child theory. something to consider however is that the c'tan are also star children, and there power is unrivalled by anything in the matterium. so perhaps if the emperor did die he would become a spirit form in a simmilar way to the c'tan. the mechanicum could then create a shell for him to exist in, perhaps a modified form of his old power armour?
the second theory is his rebirth. i assume (and hope) that you are aware of the neolithic shaman, humanities first psychers that gave there lives to become one form due to there there souls being consumed by the chaos gods, preventing there reincarnation. after growing up the emperor adopted the guise of several famous figures of legends, helping people and trying to promote peace and harmony to limit the growth in power of the chaos gods. during this time, he fathered many children, who inhereted his genome and became immortal psychic nulls. these demigods are sought by the illuminati. if they gave there lives along with the emporer then it would supposedly have the same affect that the shaman had, causing the emperor to be reborn. he would eventually regain all his memories including those of the neolithic shaman, much as he did during the 8th millenium. yes, the emperor is considerably old.
now, the effects of if the emperor died and did not return, which has been discussed alot in this topic.
the most debated thing is the astronomican. THIS IS NOT POWERED BY THE EMPEROR ALONE. It is simply a microphone for his mind, projecting it across not just the galaxy, but a large part of the universe. the psychic power of the emporer backed up a a choir of thousands of psychers is a considerable thing. this is what kills roughly a thousand psychers every day. the psychers unwilling to give there lives are instead, forcibly fed to the emperor, who consumes there psychic power. this means that the imperium could simply find the most powerfull psycher in the imperium to take the emperors place upon the golden throne, he could not reach as far but this would most defiantly be a good thing. the astronomican is what is drawing the tyranids to the milky way. its not just a beacon in the warp for humanity... if its range was limited to our galaxy alone then other hive fleets would most likely be unable to locate our galaxy, getting lost in the space between. as you can probably more than imagine, the ultramarines would like this very much, but then again who cares what they think? something else to be considered is that if the golden throne became empty then it could be restored back to its original function by reversing the plans that the emperor gave rogal dorn and the throne could once again be used as a webway gate causing travel and communication throughout the imperium to become instant. the benefit of this would be unimaginable. the stagnation effect would be cancelled out, granting the golden age the emperor desired so greatly. and before you ask, yes a human can take the emperors place powering the golden throne. Malcador the Sigillite did it to keep the webway protected while the emperor battled horus.
another thing to be debated is who would take the emperors place as leader of mankind? everyone knows what a awfull job the imperium has done of it so far, but what if the most legendary warrior the imperium has was and one of its greatest strategic leaders was to step forward? thats right, arik taranis. almost everyone in the imperium knows of the greatest of the thunder warriors, champion of the unification wars. suposedly dead, surely a great champion such as arek supposedly "returning from the dead" in the imperiums time of need would be as good a sign as any that he was to be the next emporer.
something important to remember that the emperor is just at the end of the day, a superhuman and that is seems like everything he does can be done by someone else and that if he were to kick the bucket that his death would be almost, dare i say it? beneficial.
hhmm, there was something else that i wanted to talk about but ive forgotten over the course of wirtting this wall of text, if theres anything ive missed out or gotten wrong then please say
Mustela wrote: I don't see why people can't move pass the embarassing chapter of 40K history known as the Squats.
The Squats were cooler than the Tau and the Space Rapists.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:@cadbren: Guillimen is dead, it isn't like he was about to die when they put him in stasis and they where just waiting to find a way to heal him. It would be sticking a I.V in a corpse that's just perfectly preserved.
He's a Primarch. They can do pretty magical things. Hence the near twenty year old (real world wise) story of his wounds slowly healing. I mean, the likelihood of him suddenly recovering is about the same of the Emperor dying or waking up, but where Primarchs are concerned, it's a fairly safe bet that anything is possible. Especially given that his body is intact and preserved.
I don't think Guilliman is dead. Maybe The Emperor, if he ever returns, would be able to heal him? Would make sense that the Primarch's return would rely on the Emperor also returning. Cruel fate.
When do the HH novels end and how many will there be?
Ashryu wrote:99999999999999.M41 And one more screw falls out of the Golden Throne and the Adeptus Mechanicus says they really really really really don't know how to fix it now its definately going to stop working really soon like you have no idea its right on the brink of just falling apart completely.
The IoM needs to man up and quit being xenophobic, technology-stagnant mooks otherwise they will fall apart. Wait...
Seriously, though, anything that moves the plot forward is a huge risk for GW. Some plot advancements more than others, but still, GW hasn't advanced the plot for a reason. I personally would love to see the galaxy shaken up a bit.
McNinja wrote:The IoM needs to man up and quit being xenophobic
Being xenophobic is about as manly as you get. The strive for the dominance of your own species over others. Perfectly natural. Sensible too in 40K, considering how few non-hostile xenos there seem to be in 40K.
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Simply most of the Ultra marine hate comes from the over saturation of them in the GW media, and they had a pretty hooah treatment in the Space Marines codex, exclaiming how great they are ( not that every codex does not do that )
I myself dont care one way or the other about the Ultras, I guess somebody has to set the example so the weirdo chapters can seem more weird
But they are the boys in blue, who are tried and true, and turn their enemies to goo.
People generally dislike things they are told are to be liked and admired, at least some people.
Ok lets say due to whayever fluff reasons the Emperor dies, would anyone else think it would be cool if the Ultramarines kinda did a major lockdown with a struggle against other chapters about the running of the Imperium. Since granted I am sure there are plenty of Imperial Officers, High Lords, etc, who would love to be the next rulers of the galaxy. I imagine that the Ultramarines or some other big chapter that had major gripes with the way they expect the Ultramarines to run things would coutner against them and court Officers, High Lords, etc. I think it would be cool to see the struggle. This way the Space Marine chapters can still be themselves without going into Chaos nuttiness and the Imperial Guard again would keep everything just certain regiments might have picked a side or whatnot. I am not an Ultramarine fanboy, but I personally believe based upon their Romanistic style and the history from the Horus Heresy it would not be below them to take compete control of the Imperium. Creating a divide in the Imperium without being Chaos. I realized this happened in the Horus Heresy a bit but I think it would be cool if they did this. Struggle always makes everything grimdarl.
fluffywyvern wrote:My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
1) => all Gates broken.
2) => most human worlds overrun with demons
3) => exile Mankind, leave this Galaxy and start anew, lead by the Primarchs.
4) => yes, multiple chaos codices.
5) => smaller species extinct, Eldar leave too, Tau squatted because Nids/orks/chaos/necrons are still there, IoM discontinued.
6) => orks, evil elfs, bugs and robots isn't so interesting. GW finally collapsed.
7) => new company just wants to loot the carcass of 40k : reboot game as WH 30k. New kits? NO, new repacked old kits...
or
1) => Emperor just lost his anchor in the material realm
2) => chaos offensive.
3) => campaign to contact the "lost" Emperor.
4) => C'tan takes over Mars and most of the IoM.
5) => rise of the C'Tan levels the threats again, chaos shut off because the "great plan" is in place and running.
6) => last stand of smaller species and newbies like Tau. Eldar leave.
7) => Necrons destroy every single Hive fleet. Infected planets are moved into the next black hole.
8) => Necron use a fungizid to remove orks.
9) => finally the campaign has success and contact with the Emperor is re-established.
10) => obviously the glourious leader of Mankind didn't twiddle his thumbs where he made unwillingly "holidays", a virus is spread through Necron systems.
11) => Necrons can't stop dancing, the few C'Tan cannot withstand the wrath of the enslaved.
12) => Galaxy is a burning wreck. Eldar ask if its over, so they could return. Emperor orders them to be chained to the still dancing necrons for all eternity.
Its kind of funny. If chaos prevails, destroying the imperium, 40k in itself is over. If Humanity beats the offensive and the emperor is reborn the story can continue thus 40k continues. Hmm. And I'm fighting for slaanesh but at the same time I don't want the imperium to be destoryed, then i wouldn't have anyone to fight. hmmm
Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Simply most of the Ultra marine hate comes from the over saturation of them in the GW media, and they had a pretty hooah treatment in the Space Marines codex, exclaiming how great they are ( not that every codex does not do that )
I myself dont care one way or the other about the Ultras, I guess somebody has to set the example so the weirdo chapters can seem more weird
But they are the boys in blue, who are tried and true, and turn their enemies to goo.
People generally dislike things they are told are to be liked and admired, at least some people.
The Ultramarines are awesome. I like them. Even if GW is forcing them down our throats.
Codex: Space Marines should be called Codex: Ultramarines though for sure. lol
Anyone ever think that maybe it's the throne thats keeping him from becoming fully aware. If he did the high lords would lose most of the power base. Good reason to keep him asleep. Maybe the pykers that it drains are ment to keep him down.
Steel Angel wrote:Anyone ever think that maybe it's the throne thats keeping him from becoming fully aware. If he did the high lords would lose most of the power base. Good reason to keep him asleep. Maybe the pykers that it drains are ment to keep him down.
I don't think GW would think that far into it. Do you?
TBH I think I summed this thread up pretty nicely in January...
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Just tossing this out there....what if it's already happened and the Adapteus Custodes just aren't saying? The astronomica is still working because of the sacrifice of a 1000 psykers everyday is enough to power it, and that would be way it is so unpredicatable in how well it goes, and it is not just the nature of the immaterium to be blamed.
Some of the fluff that was in the Slaves to Darkenss book released in the 90s gave this background.
The emperor is trapped in the golden throne. If his spirit were released, he would be reborn again, but the imperium are keeping his soul trapped in a shattered body.
To make matters worse, he is aware that souls are sacrificed daily to keep his husk of a body alive. The people he is sworn to protect are being sacrificed in his name to keep the status quo.
All this is done to ensure that astropaths have a beacon to allow for safe travel between the vast distance between the stars.
If the emperor were to die, humanity would be screwed for 20 to 100 years. Then the emperor would reappear, summon his marines to him, and bring some serious ass-whopping on the people who enslaved him for millennia!.
Yeah I don't get why so many people think it would be difficult for GW to keep the story going if the Emperor were to die. I mean if anything it gives them MORE story possibilities. Like others have said, and using the Necron Codex as an example, GW has no problem retconning it's own fluff to fit with the current dynamic of the story. They could hypothetically start 6th edition at the dawn of the 42nd millennium and say something like "with the Emperor dead the light of the Astronomican will be completely diminished by the dawn of the 43rd millenium" or something like that. How long have we been in the 41st for?! Gives them lots of time.
Also, again like others have mentioned it opens up the door to in faction IoM conflicts due to different camps being set up. Right now there are 6 codexes (8 if you factor in BT and DA) that you kind of have to stretch the fluff to have them meet in combat on the table. With the Emperor dead it's a lot easier to say "oh yeah these two groups are just in opposing factions!" and let those players go at it. Again like others have said it opens up the door for the possibility of the recreation of the Legions, Primarchs returning (we have Abaddon on the table right now, Demon Princes, Avatars of Khain . . . no reason why they couldn't release Primarchs for standard 40k play), possible alliances between IoM factions and Chaos Legions seeking redemption.
There's nothing but opportunity here if we all keep in mind GW is more than willing to change the fluff if they see the opportunity as well.
ringthorn1 wrote:Wait? Who is the starchild everybody is talking about. can i find him in the rulebook
The Starchild theory is detailed in the 3rd edition rulebook, the Eye of Terror novel, as well as a series called the Inquistion War Trilogy from Black Library. It may be detailed elsewhere, but that's where I've seen it.
In effect, it's the belief of some that when the Emperor dies and sheds his mortal remains on the Golden Throne, he'll be reborn. His soul is already partially in the warp, in the manner of the shaman who joined to become him, perhaps being begun by the compassion he cast off to strike down Horus, and needs the remainder to complete the 'birth'. This however, cannot happen while he's still tied to the Golden Throne. This may or may not be in the form of a warp entity, or another being much as he was before being placed within the Throne, it depends on how you read it (Most read it to be as a warp entity capable of neutralising the Chaos powers as it states in Eye of Terror).
I 'believe' this, the supporting evidence is that apparently the Emperor, while immortal, has died a number of times since his first birth in 8000BC. Each time he came back.
The Emperor is on the Golden Throne not by choice, but he does his duty while on it. I think it most likely that the Emperor would welcome death and rebirth, but is also aware of how his death would fragment the Imperium.
Still I think it would be a good thing. The death of the Emperor will result in the loss of control of the Astonomicon, which will make the weakness of the Imperium plain to all to see. Chaos and orc factions will immediately invade, but conversely it will remove the focus for the hive fleets who also use the Astronomicon as a beacon. The biggest problems will be internal political upheavals, bolstered by the dogma that the existance of the Emperor protects the soukls of the citizens of the Imperium. While a common creed there is nothing to indicate it is actually true. Mankind lived without a guiding Emperor before and the Eldar know that human souls dissaipate in the warp those not doing so are not sucked in by Slaanesh anyway.
ASll in all the death and rebirth of the Emperor will be a good think long term, so long as the Imperium holds together while the hunt for his reincarnation occurs. Good news is that there is at least one Primarch who can be roused for this purpose, and hope that a few more are recoverable.
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
ringthorn1 wrote:Wait? Who is the starchild everybody is talking about. can i find him in the rulebook
The Starchild theory is detailed in the 3rd edition rulebook, the Eye of Terror novel, as well as a series called the Inquistion War Trilogy from Black Library. It may be detailed elsewhere, but that's where I've seen it.
In effect, it's the belief of some that when the Emperor dies and sheds his mortal remains on the Golden Throne, he'll be reborn. His soul is already partially in the warp, in the manner of the shaman who joined to become him, perhaps being begun by the compassion he cast off to strike down Horus, and needs the remainder to complete the 'birth'. This however, cannot happen while he's still tied to the Golden Throne. This may or may not be in the form of a warp entity, or another being much as he was before being placed within the Throne, it depends on how you read it (Most read it to be as a warp entity capable of neutralising the Chaos powers as it states in Eye of Terror).
I 'believe' this, the supporting evidence is that apparently the Emperor, while immortal, has died a number of times since his first birth in 8000BC. Each time he came back.
The Emperor is on the Golden Throne not by choice, but he does his duty while on it. I think it most likely that the Emperor would welcome death and rebirth, but is also aware of how his death would fragment the Imperium.
Still I think it would be a good thing. The death of the Emperor will result in the loss of control of the Astonomicon, which will make the weakness of the Imperium plain to all to see. Chaos and orc factions will immediately invade, but conversely it will remove the focus for the hive fleets who also use the Astronomicon as a beacon. The biggest problems will be internal political upheavals, bolstered by the dogma that the existance of the Emperor protects the soukls of the citizens of the Imperium. While a common creed there is nothing to indicate it is actually true. Mankind lived without a guiding Emperor before and the Eldar know that human souls dissaipate in the warp those not doing so are not sucked in by Slaanesh anyway.
ASll in all the death and rebirth of the Emperor will be a good think long term, so long as the Imperium holds together while the hunt for his reincarnation occurs. Good news is that there is at least one Primarch who can be roused for this purpose, and hope that a few more are recoverable.
I'm not too steeped in lore, but with the loss of the FTL Travel, how would anyone be able to do anything in the Imperium anymore? And Wouldn't Terra be consumed by Daemons, since the Emp is holding them back ever since Magnus looked into the future? How would they hunt for his reincarnation, if they can't travel anywhere?
Please feel free to correct me on all of this, but it seems if the Emperor died, it would immediately spell the end for Imperium, as with no more communication, FTL travel, and the destruction of Terra, each planet would have to fend for itself, and we know how effective the PDFs are...
Sasori wrote:
I'm not too steeped in lore, but with the loss of the FTL Travel, how would anyone be able to do anything in the Imperium anymore? And Wouldn't Terra be consumed by Daemons, since the Emp is holding them back ever since Magnus looked into the future? How would they hunt for his reincarnation, if they can't travel anywhere?
Please feel free to correct me on all of this, but it seems if the Emperor died, it would immediately spell the end for Imperium, as with no more communication, FTL travel, and the destruction of Terra, each planet would have to fend for itself, and we know how effective the PDFs are...
Well it could create problems that is for sure.
And as for your thought on the PDF? Depending on what you read sometimes they are good sometimes not so much. And if you're like Commisar Cain, it really doesn't matter if they are good or not, they will be looked down upon.
AlmightyWalrus wrote:TBH I think I summed this thread up pretty nicely in January...
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Self quotation.... fancy. Last time I saw someone do that, they got an arrow in the knee.
I'm not too steeped in lore, but with the loss of the FTL Travel, how would anyone be able to do anything in the Imperium anymore? And Wouldn't Terra be consumed by Daemons, since the Emp is holding them back ever since Magnus looked into the future? How would they hunt for his reincarnation, if they can't travel anywhere?
Warp travel would not be lost. Very long range warp travel will be. You dont nedd the astronomicon for warp travel, you nedd a warp drive. You dont even need a navigator, you can make small calculated warp dives, this is what the Tau do. The navigator gene allows navigated warp dives, something the Tau cannot do. This ability would remain. The astronomicon is a very important beacon but there are other local ones. So as a result the central control over the imperium was dissipate, this is bad news for the high lords of terra, but noone else need worry about that of itself. The Imperium largely runs itself and would be in a better shape by lacking the interference of the Adeptus Terra.
The main problems will be mass hysterical panic, the collapse of the Imperial cult and an immediate Dark Crusade from the Eye of Terror.
Sasori wrote:
Please feel free to correct me on all of this, but it seems if the Emperor died, it would immediately spell the end for Imperium, as with no more communication, FTL travel, and the destruction of Terra, each planet would have to fend for itself, and we know how effective the PDFs are...
Not at all. Though the Imperium would need to move quickly to contain the large scale chaos incursions. Fortunately this is done with what are effectively static defences (on a galactic scale) whole armies are already in permenant position or reserve position in all likelihood with minor local beacons for travel and marked space lanes. Some departments of the Imperium may also have contingencies for just such an event as the 'loss' of the astronomicon though not for the loss of the emperor as a religious event. After all something similar happened before.
I've actually heard rumors to the effect that the big E will kick off in 6th before. Not sure how reliable they are...
Warp travel won't be lost in the least. The astronomicon is not the only warp beacon, to start with, and secondly, there are DAoT items called a Void Abacus that allow warp travel without even using a navigator.
AS far as an Immediate Dark Crusade... it's more likely that the CSMs will totally fall apart. Remember that the only thing they have in common anymore is their hatred for the Emperor. Without him to give them a foe, they have nothing left to define themselves by, and worse, their defeating him becomes impossible.
After some discussion with others, this is how we believe (if the Emperor did infact die) it will/should/could happen (warning, possible spoilers):
Spoiler:
1. Roboute Guilliman heals from stasis
2. Leman Russ returns from the Eye of Terror and declares the Wolftime
3. Jaghatai Khan returns from the Webway
4. Vulkan is released from Tarzyn's collection, Book of Fire prophecy complete
5. Corax returns from the Eye of Terror
6. Cypher returns the Sword to Terra to redeem the Dark Angel Chapter
7. Tau Empire further expands, become a greater menace in the Eastern fringe
8. Ahriman discovers the Black Library and the means to restore the thousand sons still loyal to him, return to Terra and beg forgiveness from the Emperor
9. Tzeentch finally recovers the last spell, regaining the last shard of power, using Ahriman, discovers the Black Library and recovers his staff
9.1. With the rise of Tzeentch (just as planned), the Chaos Gods war against one another to stop either becomming more powerful
9.2. The Alpha Legion turn against Abaddon and execute raids/sabotage on their main offensives (either going renegade or returning to Terra for forgiveness)
9.3. hence the 13th Black Crusade is foiled as the ruinous powers leave their champions or they are whisked away to do unholy battle
10. Emperor dies as the 13th Black Crusade is repelled from Cadia and forced back to the Eye of Terror
11. Tyranid fleet goes into disarray as the psychic beacon is extinguished, splinter fleet break off and begin random assaults on nearby planets, becomming more like the Ork menace
12. Necrons seize Imperial worlds with the IoM reeling from the death of the Emperor
13. With the expansion of the Necrons, the Eldar begin a major offensive against their ancient foes
14. Surviving Primarchs form a council to control the IoM, overseeing the Lords of Terra
15. Imperial Guard regiments cut off from other forces with the fall of the Astronomicon, are either wiped out or resist incursions from chaos/necrons/tyranids/tau
16. Thorian Inquisitors discover new Emperor, Imperium rejoices
17. AdMech discover and repair fault with the Golden throne now that the Emperor is no longer attached
17. IoM in shambles, new Imperial expansion begins with the Primarchs advising the new Emperor
18. Nearby Imperial Guard regiments conquer and liberate other cut off regiments with the reestablishment of the astronomicon
19. Abaddon rallies the forces of chaos, legions now divided by the warring chaos gods
20. It is the 42st Millennium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war
Ehsteve wrote:After some discussion with others, this is how we believe (if the Emperor did infact die) it will/should/could happen (warning, possible spoilers):
Spoiler:
1. Roboute Guilliman heals from stasis 2. Leman Russ returns from the Eye of Terror and declares the Wolftime 3. Jaghatai Khan returns from the Webway 4. Vulkan is released from Tarzyn's collection, Book of Fire prophecy complete 5. Corax returns from the Eye of Terror 6. Cypher returns the Sword to Terra to redeem the Dark Angel Chapter 7. Tau Empire further expands, become a greater menace in the Eastern fringe 8. Ahriman discovers the Black Library and the means to restore the thousand sons still loyal to him, return to Terra and beg forgiveness from the Emperor 9. Tzeentch finally recovers the last spell, regaining the last shard of power, using Ahriman, discovers the Black Library and recovers his staff 9.1. With the rise of Tzeentch (just as planned), the Chaos Gods war against one another to stop either becomming more powerful 9.2. The Alpha Legion turn against Abaddon and execute raids/sabotage on their main offensives (either going renegade or returning to Terra for forgiveness) 9.3. hence the 13th Black Crusade is foiled as the ruinous powers leave their champions or they are whisked away to do unholy battle 10. Emperor dies as the 13th Black Crusade is repelled from Cadia and forced back to the Eye of Terror 11. Tyranid fleet goes into disarray as the psychic beacon is extinguished, splinter fleet break off and begin random assaults on nearby planets, becomming more like the Ork menace 12. Necrons seize Imperial worlds with the IoM reeling from the death of the Emperor 13. With the expansion of the Necrons, the Eldar begin a major offensive against their ancient foes 14. Surviving Primarchs form a council to control the IoM, overseeing the Lords of Terra 15. Imperial Guard regiments cut off from other forces with the fall of the Astronomicon, are either wiped out or resist incursions from chaos/necrons/tyranids/tau 16. Thorian Inquisitors discover new Emperor, Imperium rejoices 17. AdMech discover and repair fault with the Golden throne now that the Emperor is no longer attached 17. IoM in shambles, new Imperial expansion begins with the Primarchs advising the new Emperor 18. Nearby Imperial Guard regiments conquer and liberate other cut off regiments with the reestablishment of the astronomicon 19. Abaddon rallies the forces of chaos, legions now divided by the warring chaos gods 20. It is the 42nd Millennium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war
I really don't see most of that happening, I could see this (assuming emperor isnt long dead and his death is an obscenely well hidden secret), with the return of so many forces to the IoM would abandon the general hopeless atmosphere pervading the setting, I'll give my stab at this list.
Spoiler:
1.Word get's out that the emperor is trully dying(not dead yet mind you), rebellion and secession are rampant (making for IoM vs. IoM matches more plausible) 2.Using the instability to their advantage Chaos forces manage to take and hold the Cadia Gate, albeit with massive losses 3. Cypher discovers an entrance into the webway, and manages to do something to the Golden Throne before being slain by custodes(fixing it in all actuality, allowing for more editions to be made) 4. Black Templars launch in full strength to destroy hive fleet Leviathan 5. Tau expansion continues, they find a way to counter psykers 6. Tyranids continue devouring IoM space in other sectors 7. After the losses from the Chaos attacks on their home system Ultramarines focus on rebuilding their own domain 8. Dark Angels with several other chapters launch a counter crusade to retake cadia (iirc rumors state Dark Angels are supposed to be the poster boys for the next edition) 9. Eldar continue to be Fey and Enigmatic, continuing to wield the 'I told you so' card against the Imperium 10. Sisters of Battle recruit in far larger numbers to take on the mass rebellion (hence their own non web codex) 11. Necrons continue to awaken, making the situation for IoM that much worse 12.It is the 42st Millennium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war
Now for my funny/gripey addons to this list 13.Admech just said the wrong prayers, nothing wrong with the throne 14.Marneus Calgar goes to cadia and kills Abaddon in single combat, since thats what ultramarines do 15. Tau reflect what happens in gameplay and get wiped out 16.IoM gets wise to Space wolf and Ultramarine fluff armor, chapter size for those two are allowed to grow to the point that one marine from those two chapters can be on every planet 17.The above results in Tyranids unable to take another planet, also leaves chaos pretty screwed too 18.Imperial guard gets even more armor 19. Kaldor Draigo magically appears and chuck norris' every Custodes and kills the emperor in what is later told as 'glorious single combat', replacing the emperor on the golden toilet 20.This is the 42nd millenium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Matt Ward codex's
New theory: Draigo leaves the warp next to the Emperor and revives him using his awesome. Emp awakes and comforts him as he dies by telling him no one else is allowed the Emperors True name, he whispers: "matt...ward"
Now for my actual theory for 6th edition, rather than the Emp dying, instead the Atronomicon grows steadily fainter as the Golden throne loses the Emperors life sign little by little, rather than the fluctuations in the past. this does a few things
1) makes communication and travel vastly more difficult
2) higher up officers know that each day brings less hope, sending moral into a steady decline
3) enemies of the Imperium press the advantage on all sides, run into each other and continue fighting
4) only "good" news, tyranids stop advancing coreworld as much/fast, BUT start focusing on ALL other worlds in their reach(mopping up any missed scraps of food)
5) being suppressed less now that the Emperors power is fading, the Eye of Terror expands by hundreds of light years, enveloping Cadia and thousands of "secure" systems, psykers and daemons show up more frequently
6) chaos forces start skirting the edge of segmentum sol
its the 40k everybody loves, but now even MORE GRIMDARK!
AlmightyWalrus wrote:TBH I think I summed this thread up pretty nicely in January...
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Self quotation.... fancy. Last time I saw someone do that, they got an arrow in the knee.
I used to take arrows to the knee, then I took a mace to the face.
Seriously, that meme is already old and tired, and not very funny to start with. At least my self-quotation had a point.
Ehsteve wrote:After some discussion with others, this is how we believe (if the Emperor did infact die) it will/should/could happen (warning, possible spoilers):
Spoiler:
1. Roboute Guilliman heals from stasis
2. Leman Russ returns from the Eye of Terror and declares the Wolftime
3. Jaghatai Khan returns from the Webway
4. Vulkan is released from Tarzyn's collection, Book of Fire prophecy complete
5. Corax returns from the Eye of Terror
6. Cypher returns the Sword to Terra to redeem the Dark Angel Chapter
7. Tau Empire further expands, become a greater menace in the Eastern fringe
8. Ahriman discovers the Black Library and the means to restore the thousand sons still loyal to him, return to Terra and beg forgiveness from the Emperor
9. Tzeentch finally recovers the last spell, regaining the last shard of power, using Ahriman, discovers the Black Library and recovers his staff
9.1. With the rise of Tzeentch (just as planned), the Chaos Gods war against one another to stop either becomming more powerful
9.2. The Alpha Legion turn against Abaddon and execute raids/sabotage on their main offensives (either going renegade or returning to Terra for forgiveness)
9.3. hence the 13th Black Crusade is foiled as the ruinous powers leave their champions or they are whisked away to do unholy battle
10. Emperor dies as the 13th Black Crusade is repelled from Cadia and forced back to the Eye of Terror
11. Tyranid fleet goes into disarray as the psychic beacon is extinguished, splinter fleet break off and begin random assaults on nearby planets, becomming more like the Ork menace
12. Necrons seize Imperial worlds with the IoM reeling from the death of the Emperor
13. With the expansion of the Necrons, the Eldar begin a major offensive against their ancient foes
14. Surviving Primarchs form a council to control the IoM, overseeing the Lords of Terra
15. Imperial Guard regiments cut off from other forces with the fall of the Astronomicon, are either wiped out or resist incursions from chaos/necrons/tyranids/tau
16. Thorian Inquisitors discover new Emperor, Imperium rejoices
17. AdMech discover and repair fault with the Golden throne now that the Emperor is no longer attached
17. IoM in shambles, new Imperial expansion begins with the Primarchs advising the new Emperor
18. Nearby Imperial Guard regiments conquer and liberate other cut off regiments with the reestablishment of the astronomicon
19. Abaddon rallies the forces of chaos, legions now divided by the warring chaos gods
20. It is the 42nd Millennium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war
I really don't see most of that happening, I could see this (assuming emperor isnt long dead and his death is an obscenely well hidden secret), with the return of so many forces to the IoM would abandon the general hopeless atmosphere pervading the setting, I'll give my stab at this list.
Spoiler:
1.Word get's out that the emperor is trully dying(not dead yet mind you), rebellion and secession are rampant (making for IoM vs. IoM matches more plausible)
2.Using the instability to their advantage Chaos forces manage to take and hold the Cadia Gate, albeit with massive losses
3. Cypher discovers an entrance into the webway, and manages to do something to the Golden Throne before being slain by custodes(fixing it in all actuality, allowing for more editions to be made)
4. Black Templars launch in full strength to destroy hive fleet Leviathan
5. Tau expansion continues, they find a way to counter psykers
6. Tyranids continue devouring IoM space in other sectors
7. After the losses from the Chaos attacks on their home system Ultramarines focus on rebuilding their own domain
8. Dark Angels with several other chapters launch a counter crusade to retake cadia (iirc rumors state Dark Angels are supposed to be the poster boys for the next edition)
9. Eldar continue to be Fey and Enigmatic, continuing to wield the 'I told you so' card against the Imperium
10. Sisters of Battle recruit in far larger numbers to take on the mass rebellion (hence their own non web codex)
11. Necrons continue to awaken, making the situation for IoM that much worse
12.It is the 42st Millennium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war
Now for my funny/gripey addons to this list
13.Admech just said the wrong prayers, nothing wrong with the throne
14.Marneus Calgar goes to cadia and kills Abaddon in single combat, since thats what ultramarines do
15. Tau reflect what happens in gameplay and get wiped out
16.IoM gets wise to Space wolf and Ultramarine fluff armor, chapter size for those two are allowed to grow to the point that one marine from those two chapters can be on every planet
17.The above results in Tyranids unable to take another planet, also leaves chaos pretty screwed too
18.Imperial guard gets even more armor
19. Kaldor Draigo magically appears and chuck norris' every Custodes and kills the emperor in what is later told as 'glorious single combat', replacing the emperor on the golden toilet
20.This is the 42nd millenium and in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Matt Ward codex's
For someone who hates Matt Ward so much, why have you named yourself after him, Ward Ragoon?
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Oh please let this happen. I'd pay good money for that.
They are slowly advancing it. VERY slowly.. in the decade i've been observing 40k they've reached the 41,900's.. when I first started out they were still in the late 40k/early 41st mark or so. It's the fact they're not doing too many major changes... 13th Crusade, new tyranid fluff and Tau have to have been the biggest fluff moves in that period.
I think killing the emperor would be bold but could be amazingly brilliant. With fiction, especially fiction like this they could do well with it. I mean hell they killed off Solar and Eldrad.. why not old emps? YEAH there would be a void and yeah all those fans roaring 'FOR THE EMPEROR' would become a little dumb struck but that's the point of it! A shock a huge shift like that is meant to change things... you've seen it before when Vader tells luke of his heritage, when Ned Stark got the sword in a game of thrones and when we found out Dumbledore was actually a homo. It's how they moved on that would effect it.
If I were them i'd do it. Have a huge campaign in the summer to represent the mess and then have salvation come in the form of Lemon Russ wandering out of the warp with some old eldar tech that did what the emperor did, healing Roboute and waking Lion. The new dynamics would be endless. All of a sudden the GRIM DARKNESS OF the 41st millennium will be re-realised as mankind's true saviour is gone and that brief lapse in power opened alot of holes. Then.. if it proves too un-commercially substantial they can bang out the star child or name Roboute emps (and have someone to roar 'for the emperor!' for once again).
Think of the games that could come from it too? The internal politics from this shift would open a big doorway.
Semper wrote:
If I were them i'd do it. Have a huge campaign in the summer to represent the mess and then have salvation come in the form of Lemon Russ wandering out of the warp with some old eldar tech that did what the emperor did, healing Roboute and waking Lion. The new dynamics would be endless. All of a sudden the GRIM DARKNESS OF the 41st millennium will be re-realised as mankind's true saviour is gone and that brief lapse in power opened alot of holes. Then.. if it proves too un-commercially substantial they can bang out the star child or name Roboute emps (and have someone to roar 'for the emperor!' for once again).
Think of the games that could come from it too? The internal politics from this shift would open a big doorway.
That would be rather interesting to see happen. We'd see primarchs as playable special characters in games like that. I'd prefer it if they all stayed as Apoc only models though. It would be interesting if there was a civil war because of the Emperor's death and the different Marine chapters and organizations within the Imperium takes sides.
Me, I'd like to see a massive internal war as various Imperial factions slugged it out to be the new top dog (Welcome, Brawl Fans, to Inquisition War II!)
I think the best thing that could happen in 6th edition is finding out what the hell is going on with all the primarchs!
Revive the Lion, revive Gulliman, find out where Russ has gone. As well as telling us about the epic wars going on in regards to traitor and loyalist legions. Some more primarch vs primarch would go down pretty well. Perhaps wipe out a traitor primarch? since there's so few loyal ones left
I hate sitting here for years not knowing what's going on!
daBIGboss wrote:I think the best thing that could happen in 6th edition is finding out what the hell is going on with all the primarchs!
we know where most of em are,
the ones that turned to chaos are in the EoT in the form of daemon princes.
the good primarchs that are missing are apparently in the EoT hunting said daemon princes
horus's soul was obliterated from the warp, hence why he cant be resurrected.
some good primarchs are simply beaten up or sleeping, im looking at you rowboat girlyman
the only primarchs that are truly missing are second and sixth, we know there dead but thats about it
As I see it there are 12 Primarchs still alive (possibly 14 but unconfirmed)
Of the 12 that are known to be alive (if in a bad way) 6 are Traitorous Deamon Princes, and 6 Are loyal.
GW could easily revive/find the loyal Primarchs and Resurrect the EoM in just 1 edition using several of the ideas previously mentioned here and brush it all away by jumping on a couple of hundred years.
These 7 (6 Primarchs and EoM) would then easily be a match for the Chaos Enhanced Traitorous Primarchs and opens the doors for some Epic Battles.
According to the fluff the Primarchs were only a stones throw away from a GD in power (more so). It's their command/abilities that take them apart.. but in a game of apoch what difference would it make?
Hell.. you can ALREADY use Angron.. and he's not exactly game breaking even in normal tabletop 40k. He's just a Bloodthirster on krak. Same as any other character or monster.. just throw enough at them and eventually something will stick. Really the only ones that'd be overpowered in a tabletop environment would be the psykers but like only three of them were psykers. Horus, Mortarion(?) and Magnus as far as I know and i'm not sure about Mort.
Medium of Death wrote:If the Emperor dies won't Terra be swarmed by all kinds of Daemons?
GW should just focus on expanding the already established fluff.
I think that's the crux of the issue in this thread though, that once we're past 999.M41 we're going to start seeing the failure of the Golden Throne in a more catastrophic manner.
daBIGboss wrote:I think the best thing that could happen in 6th edition is finding out what the hell is going on with all the primarchs!
we know where most of em are,
the ones that turned to chaos are in the EoT in the form of daemon princes.
the good primarchs that are missing are apparently in the EoT hunting said daemon princes
horus's soul was obliterated from the warp, hence why he cant be resurrected.
some good primarchs are simply beaten up or sleeping, im looking at you rowboat girlyman
the only primarchs that are truly missing are second and sixth, we know there dead but thats about it
Yeah I'm aware where they are roughly, such as in the warp and all. But I want specifics. Details of brawls, looted demon planets.
Gulliman can stay asleep, he sucks anyway. I think it would be cool as having the Lion or Russ back
n0t_u wrote:What's more likely to happen is that some super duper special smart Ad mech guy is going to show up with his magic wrench say a long forgotten prayer thing and wave it and the Golden Throne will be as good as new.
Or to make it more grimdark he manages to repair it a little to keep it going but no one knows how long it will last.
Medium of Death wrote:If the Emperor dies won't Terra be swarmed by all kinds of Daemons?
No, thats the hype preached by the Ministorium to keep the faithful praying and giving thanks. "Worship the Emperor because he keeps the government together and runs the biggest lighthouse", doesnt have quite the same ring to it as "Worship the Emperor lest your soul be consumed by the Warp."
The life of death of the Emperor has no bearing on the fate of human souls, nor does the Emperor keep daemons in the warp. They are kept there by their inability to remain in realspace unless summoned of the planet is close to/part of a chaos vortex.
whrextheimpaler wrote:Cypher will kill the Emperor plain and simple, then all Hell will break lose.
Disagree, Cypher is a Fallen Angel and seeks redemtion as Luther did when he struk down the Lion. Cypher is on his way to free the Emperor from the Gloden Tomb, ops sorry Throne.
The Russ is nursing the infant starchild in the eye of terror, and he will return - but if he does, that means it's Ragnarok (AKA The Wolftime), so no more space puppies. That probably means no more Imperium by association.
daBIGboss wrote:I think the best thing that could happen in 6th edition is finding out what the hell is going on with all the primarchs!
we know where most of em are,
the ones that turned to chaos are in the EoT in the form of daemon princes.
the good primarchs that are missing are apparently in the EoT hunting said daemon princes
horus's soul was obliterated from the warp, hence why he cant be resurrected.
some good primarchs are simply beaten up or sleeping, im looking at you rowboat girlyman
the only primarchs that are truly missing are second and sixth, we know there dead but thats about it
Yeah I'm aware where they are roughly, such as in the warp and all. But I want specifics. Details of brawls, looted demon planets.
Gulliman can stay asleep, he sucks anyway. I think it would be cool as having the Lion or Russ back
I vote for both and a giant brawling between them!!! That'd be fun!!!
whrextheimpaler wrote:Cypher will kill the Emperor plain and simple, then all Hell will break lose.
Disagree, Cypher is a Fallen Angel and seeks redemtion as Luther did when he struk down the Lion. Cypher is on his way to free the Emperor from the Gloden Tomb, ops sorry Throne.
LOL and by freeing him your saying killing, but yes you are right.
Toast36 wrote:The wolftime is the end of the universe as we know it. This does not necessarily mean the end of the universe just a really big shake up.
The way I see the Wolftime's is, it is like Norse (which space wolves are deffinately based off of) Ragnarok, which in and of itself is not a true end of the world iirc but a complete game changer-no pun intended-where god's die and the world goes up in flames, with a bunch of nasty beasties joining in for the fun too. Now if this does hold true, The All Father(who is Odin/The Emperor) dies, wherein Thor and many others live.
English Assassin wrote:No, he isn't. Stop asking this every time a new edition is announced.
We all keep hoping that GW will one day take a hint and advance the time line. It's not likely, but one can always hope. Though, personally, I'm hoping for enough cash to just BUY GW and change it to suit my whim.
Medium of Death wrote:If the Emperor dies won't Terra be swarmed by all kinds of Daemons?
No, thats the hype preached by the Ministorium to keep the faithful praying and giving thanks. "Worship the Emperor because he keeps the government together and runs the biggest lighthouse", doesnt have quite the same ring to it as "Worship the Emperor lest your soul be consumed by the Warp."
The life of death of the Emperor has no bearing on the fate of human souls, nor does the Emperor keep daemons in the warp. They are kept there by their inability to remain in realspace unless summoned of the planet is close to/part of a chaos vortex.
Except that the rulebook states that the Emperor is keeping Daemons at bay. This isn't told from an in-universe view either, but from our, the all-knowing reader's, perspective. Then there's the issue of the hole in reality caused by Magnus that the Emperor is currently plugging up as well. If he dies, the Daemons have access to a massive warp rift in the heart of the Imperial Palace. I'm sure we can agree that that'd feth the Imperium over beyond pretty much anything else.
isnt the emperor keeping demons at bay via the webway?. they were rebuilding it and the emperor had to sit on the golden throne creating a psychic barrier in the webway to prevent demons flooding into it and from there the imperial palace. thats why maladite or whatever he is called had to give his life while the emperor was fighting horus.
Medium of Death wrote:If the Emperor dies won't Terra be swarmed by all kinds of Daemons?
No, thats the hype preached by the Ministorium to keep the faithful praying and giving thanks. "Worship the Emperor because he keeps the government together and runs the biggest lighthouse", doesnt have quite the same ring to it as "Worship the Emperor lest your soul be consumed by the Warp."
The life of death of the Emperor has no bearing on the fate of human souls, nor does the Emperor keep daemons in the warp. They are kept there by their inability to remain in realspace unless summoned of the planet is close to/part of a chaos vortex.
Except that the rulebook states that the Emperor is keeping Daemons at bay. This isn't told from an in-universe view either, but from our, the all-knowing reader's, perspective. Then there's the issue of the hole in reality caused by Magnus that the Emperor is currently plugging up as well. If he dies, the Daemons have access to a massive warp rift in the heart of the Imperial Palace. I'm sure we can agree that that'd feth the Imperium over beyond pretty much anything else.
I can't stand it when people go against the grain of what GW has laid down in stone. The Emperor is a God. The Emperor is still alive in death. The Emperor is keeping demons at bay. Facts. Not debatable. This information as you said is laid out in the rule book and in countless other sources.
kill him... or better yet, a DE raiding force attacks, captures him, and uses him as a practice target in the arenas during then day, and then rents him out for "emprah rides" in the evening. much pain and fun to be had by all.
Highly unlikely
Games Workshop treats 40K as a setting, not a evolving storyline. They'll probably continue fleshing out the universe before moving it forward...and there's a lot to flesh out
Mukkin'About wrote:While it would seriously be a good move for GW to do something new and exciting like advance the storyline.
Well, you gotta remember it's a setting not a storyline. I'd hate it if they advanced it. I like things the way they are.
You can't advance a setting.
As it is, it's like playing Mass Effect 2, except instead of actually going after the Collectors you continually fight more and more battles against them. It'd get stale and old really quick, even if you were given history upon hsitory and dozens more characters. The story has been the same since what, 3rd edition? They need to move something forward. For a galaxy consumed in war, the status quo has been maintained for a surprisingly long time.
As it is, it's like playing Mass Effect 2, except instead of actually going after the Collectors you continually fight more and more battles against them. It'd get stale and old really quick, even if you were given history upon hsitory and dozens more characters. The story has been the same since what, 3rd edition? They need to move something forward. For a galaxy consumed in war, the status quo has been maintained for a surprisingly long time.
Mass Effect is a role playing game, where the main attraction is uncovering and experiencing the story, which isn't really analogous to 40K.
40Kneeds a precipice like setting, on the verge of a massive shift of power, but never quite happeing, in a galaxy large enough that you can fight your own battles. I'd hate for it to advance.
No he won't die but maybe this will happen instead:
AdMech manages to fix the Golden Throne similar to fixing a fusion reactor with duct tape and spit.
However here comes the problem: They will now need roughly ten times as much psykers each day to power it also the AdMech discovered that you can also use geneseed to power the throne for a bit longer.
The IoM now has to start a few new crusades to find more psykers and will even start to feed captured xenos to the Golden Throne.
Also some Chapters don't take kindly to seeing their geneseed shiped of as fuel.
Further the massive effort raised to repair the Golden Throne is noticed by the general populance. Rumours start that the Golden Throne is failing. While Inquisition, Ministorium and those police dudes crack down hard on everyone voicing doubts about the future, there will be even more heretic cults and people wanting to join the Tau.
GW can use this to justify quite a few new big Apocalypse battles.
Mukkin'About wrote:While it would seriously be a good move for GW to do something new and exciting like advance the storyline... I can't help but think that no matter what they do none of you will be satisfied with it.
Just look at all the hate that follows every codex release / new models and you'll see that It's probably safer for GW not to rock the boat.
Props to them if they actually do move the storyline forward though.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT!!!!
Any who If they did go through with the Emperor Dieing and being reborn ect... they would have to make a counter event because as we all know all is never well in the 40K vurse. If they did go through with this (which would explain why we keep getting new Imperial Dexes all the time) then they have to do something to counter it say....... The Chaos Gods Revive Horus?
DarkWind wrote:If they did go through with this (which would explain why we keep getting new Imperial Dexes all the time) then they have to do something to counter it say....... The Chaos Gods Revive Horus?
Horus can't be brought back. His soul was destroyed.
Besides which, the Emperor reborn wouldn't still have his compassion for Horus. As such, Horus wouldn't be as much as a threat (since the Emperor would go all out immediately rather than holding back).
I once read/was told something that said Cypher of the Dark Angles wanted to kill the emporer and birth the star child. And the image on the spines of the WD shows a dark angel, but only for a small part of the height of the spine. My thoughts are preahps, as the image develops, we will see that it is indeed cypher killing the emporer. This would move the story on and out of the age of man.
I have no idea if this has been mentioned before, and this is only my opinion, but what do you think?
fluffywyvern wrote:My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
1) => all Gates broken.
2) => most human worlds overrun with demons
3) => exile Mankind, leave this Galaxy and start anew, lead by the Primarchs.
4) => yes, multiple chaos codices.
5) => smaller species extinct, Eldar leave too, Tau squatted because Nids/orks/chaos/necrons are still there, IoM discontinued.
6) => orks, evil elfs, bugs and robots isn't so interesting. GW finally collapsed.
7) => new company just wants to loot the carcass of 40k : reboot game as WH 30k. New kits? NO, new repacked old kits...
or
1) => Emperor just lost his anchor in the material realm
2) => chaos offensive.
3) => campaign to contact the "lost" Emperor.
4) => C'tan takes over Mars and most of the IoM.
5) => rise of the C'Tan levels the threats again, chaos shut off because the "great plan" is in place and running.
6) => last stand of smaller species and newbies like Tau. Eldar leave.
7) => Necrons destroy every single Hive fleet. Infected planets are moved into the next black hole.
8) => Necron use a fungizid to remove orks.
9) => finally the campaign has success and contact with the Emperor is re-established.
10) => obviously the glourious leader of Mankind didn't twiddle his thumbs where he made unwillingly "holidays", a virus is spread through Necron systems.
11) => Necrons can't stop dancing, the few C'Tan cannot withstand the wrath of the enslaved.
12) => Galaxy is a burning wreck. Eldar ask if its over, so they could return. Emperor orders them to be chained to the still dancing necrons for all eternity.
doubt it daemons, necrons and nids being the largest threat I do not belive the hive fleets would be wiped out completely. actually I think they would thrive in it. First catachan would be re attacked and the nid will have learnt a lesson, then hive fleet behemoth ploughs through terra and other imperail worlds
kshaw2000 wrote:doubt it daemons, necrons and nids being the largest threat I do not belive the hive fleets would be wiped out completely. actually I think they would thrive in it. First catachan would be re attacked and the nid will have learnt a lesson, then hive fleet behemoth ploughs through terra and other imperail worlds
It'd have a hard time doing that, given that Behemoth pretty much no longer exists as a Hive Fleet any more.
RaptorsTallon wrote:I once read/was told something that said Cypher of the Dark Angles wanted to kill the emporer and birth the star child. And the image on the spines of the WD shows a dark angel, but only for a small part of the height of the spine. My thoughts are preahps, as the image develops, we will see that it is indeed cypher killing the emporer. This would move the story on and out of the age of man.
I have no idea if this has been mentioned before, and this is only my opinion, but what do you think?
Cypher is an unknown quantity, all that's really known about him is that his sword is broken and it's thought to be the Lion's sword. The Fallen claim that he's going to redeem them all somehow, but they tend not be believed for some reason.
Emperor is not going to die you guys... He is going to resurrect and kick Chaos a** big time. Primarchs will return to lead their Legions, and all will be fine at last.
It's gotten to the point where I don't really care WHAT happens, just so long as something does. For a game with such a devoted fan base of people who love the fluff, we don't really get a whole lot of fuel in regards to new story. I don't see why GW can't continue to be profitable while progressing the storyline....
I agree with whoever said that there would have to be a counter event to the Emperor being reborn. I'd vote Fabius Bile makes a new black pariah who becomes a scourge of the galaxy and helps Chaos bust through Cadia.
Draigo wrote:I heard gw confirmed movin out of the age of man.
That would be moving out of the age of business
Why? Emprah dies he just goes into the warp as a god, reborn in a new child or any number of things. That wouldnt be awful... Then in the new sm codex they could make custodes an hq choice or something since theyre not guarding the throne. Change doesnt mean game suicide. It could also allow the crusade through the eye and make the setting like another heresy as in a massive war through out the galaxy waiting for the emprah or whatever.
The Emporer die?GOOD now all of us Tyranids will find the exact location of the astronomicon and go non nom noming on terra like we did on Ultramar (remember that Ultramarine players?) besides we already have Genestealers there waiting. We just do what we did in the Black Nebula (see fall of Jormungandr)
P.s. how do you pronounce that? I always thought it was Jorga-mun-der?
King Pariah wrote:IF the emperor dies, the astronomicon vanishes and nids won't be making headway towards terra anymore...
He focuses it, he doesn't run it.
So no, it won't vanish. Just less attracting. But the nids are here and hungry, so to move on they still choose to consume all biomass.
I'd hope the emperor has a long life, if I'd be a non-human as the moment the nids aren't heading towards terra.....
Does the emperor have a conscience thought? Or is his mind simply going on "auto-pilot" and doing everything it is doing on its own?
If he can think, then I would think that he knows that the thing keeping him anchored in the materium is failing, and I'm assuming he would know best what would happen if he weren't on the throne any longer. That being said, I would think he would be creating some sort of exit strategy for when he finally kicks it.
Like say, focusing his energies to do a myriad of things. Perhaps it's a direct blow to chaos, to cripple them for long enough for the Imperium a moments respite. Or it could be for the astronomican to resonate for a period of time, maybe long enough for him to be found again and re light the light as it was.
Just a theory
Anyway, I would be in favor of the Emperor dying. Even though I am one of those 'For the Emperor" Guard players.
It took the Eye of Terror worldwide campaign to kill eldrad. It's going to take GW a lot more than 6th edition to bump off the guy on the golden throne.
fluffywyvern wrote:My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
No, I need the great bastard to live so that the army of nuns with gunz has something to worship.
Its not going to happen. Not even going to entertain the idea, him on the cusp of death was just to add tension for 5th. Theres as much chance he'll step off the throne and go Kratos against the Chaos Gods in the Eye of Terror and destroy them for all eternity.
Totalwar1402 wrote:
No, I need the great bastard to live so that the army of nuns with gunz has something to worship.
Hm, that's a problem.
They could worship me
As these things are, having a definite climax of a showdown does too much to end the story. The story must be kept open forever or there'll be less opportunity.
Omegus wrote:Emperor dead = no more Astronomicon = no more Imperium = this ain't ever gonna happen
Let me help you with that:
Emperor Dead = little to nothing to do with astronomicon in fluff anymore = Imperium doesn't only use Astronomicon as it's only means of warp travel anymore (there are dozens of ways to warp travel in fluff used by IoM, the navigator/astronomicon one is simply the most common, for two reasons: it's the safest way to travel long distances, and the navigator houses have been making a point to kill anyone caught using another method, particularly technological ones from the DAoT such as a Void Abacus, for example) = they've already laid the groundwork for this.
Langston128 wrote: If the emperor were to die i think it would be in the last 40,000 edition ever due to his influence in the game
Huh? He's been a mcguffin, you mean. The Emperor hasn't influenced how the Imperium works since the HH. He could be dead as a doornail as far as anyone knows.
If the Astronomicon were to go out, the Tyranids would no longer be as drawn to this galaxy as they were. I mean, they'd still be attacking this galaxy in hopes of consuming it all, but that part of the fluff would be gone.
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
Oh please let this happen. I'd pay good money for that.
Me too so we wouldn't have to listen to people try so hard to be cool for not liking them endlessly...
Im with the people mentioning the star child. In the GK codex it mentions something called the Terminus Decree, and references the Golden Throne.
I'd imagine that the Terminus Decree shuts down the golden throne, kills the emperor, and therefore rebirths his psychic presence in a new psyker. If you do some research into the dawnings of 40k, you'll find that the emperor is not technically one man, but the minds of many binded into a single consciousness, born into a single entity. If anything, killing the emperor would make things a lot better for the Imperium.
But, once again the little excerpt about the Terminus Decree states "It could save the Imperium in its darkest hour, or bring it to its knees"
The EoM can never die. He is a true immortal and as such will be reborn with all of his memories and abilities.
Once reborn he can continue to run the astrinomican and keep the chaos hoards at bay. The only reason that he is still on the throne is because the IoM is too frightened to pull the plug and allow the Star Child to Reign.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:It's pretty unlikely, but eh. You never know.
Perhaps we'll get another global campaign to decide a chunk of new fluff instead. That'd be pretty neat.
That would be really cool, but if 6th edition is as close as some have said it would be a little late for that kind of thing. Something like that would take a good while to accomplish. My buddy Dean and a few of us worked to set up the regional championships for Star Wars Miniatures for a couple of years and that was a lot of work and we were only looking at 2 Dozen games stores across the US and that took us 6 months to set up and make happen. 40k is soo much bigger than SWM ever was. You have to coordinate with who knows how many vendors and game stores and hobby groups that play out of a basement or a garage, and then get reports in from all of them, correlate all that data, write a fancy narrative to go with all the reports (thankfully BL has a bunch of staff writers on hand for this part), and then drop it into the codex/rulebook.
It's likely something like that would be found inside WD and then that would contain all the info to set up the event locally and report and register and all that good stuff so the GW really wouldn't be doing any of the foot work just collecting data at the end.
However I do think that would be a fun idea. I know Mechwarrior the Dark Age had a system set up to do just that for all of it's Friday night FLGS events and such.
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Brother Coa wrote:Emperor is not going to die you guys...
He is going to resurrect and kick Chaos a** big time.
Primarchs will return to lead their Legions, and all will be fine at last.
What about the legions where the Primarch has been a confirmed kill at this point?
Personally, I really don't see how it matters (other than Terra becoming a daemon world, that is.) If you dig a bit, you find that, other than as a symbol, the Emperor and Terra has very little value or impact on the Imperium at large. If not for the astronomicon, Terra could be already gone and the Emperor dead, and the vast majority of the Imperium would never notice.
AlmightyWalrus wrote:The Emperor dying in 6th edition is about as likely as the Ultramarines getting wiped out by a surprise Squat attack utilizing Unobtainium Missiles to shatter the entire Ultramar System...
He will be resurrected as Matt Ward leading a ultramarine charge and kill off everything that is not a ultramarine. Also I know for a fact nothing will happen. Reason? If the big E comes back GW will have to recont fluff, make more models, kill a few armys, and make more models.
Oh and they would most likley make a Emprah model at like 50 bucks and make him be able to kill entire armys.
Besides that means Macha would end up with the big E and we cant have that now can we?
Also Nurgle likes him for letting his body being taken over with decay.
orkoidSTD wrote:would it really change the universe that much if he died?
Yes, actually. The Astronominomnomnomicon would go out, which would then make ship travel through the warp impossible (the navigating part, at least. You can still do it, but there'd be no way to tell where you're coming out). And isn't there that Webway portal - the one Magnus busted through and released a good amount of daemons - that the Emperor is keeping closed? He dies, and Terra's going to be overrun.
And since the Focux of 40k is humanity, you basically have the entire IoM coming apart, where the only viable form of collective community is at the star system level.
BaronIveagh wrote:Personally, I really don't see how it matters (other than Terra becoming a daemon world, that is.) If you dig a bit, you find that, other than as a symbol, the Emperor and Terra has very little value or impact on the Imperium at large. If not for the astronomicon, Terra could be already gone and the Emperor dead, and the vast majority of the Imperium would never notice.
Apart from chaos spilling into the entire galaxy and all that, but who cares right?
Nothing changes if the emperor dies. All the marine players wont just go out and sell their armies because some guy in a book who they never met just died.
People will still play marines because they can paint them what colour they like and get a T4 3+ SV to start...
Why would anyone give that up because a body tied to a chair died?
I say 6E is in desperate need of a new Chaos uprising, Ork Waagh on a system and a hive fleet to head for Terra... Its abou tthe only way to make it interesting.... If the fluff dosent change I think people will tire of the same old same old and go play something else.....
orkoidSTD wrote:would it really change the universe that much if he died?
Yes, actually. The Astronominomnomnomicon would go out, which would then make ship travel through the warp impossible (the navigating part, at least. You can still do it, but there'd be no way to tell where you're coming out). And isn't there that Webway portal - the one Magnus busted through and released a good amount of daemons - that the Emperor is keeping closed? He dies, and Terra's going to be overrun.
And since the Focux of 40k is humanity, you basically have the entire IoM coming apart, where the only viable form of collective community is at the star system level.
AGAIN! Humanity does not 'need' the Astronomicon, they have other ways of making navigated warp jumps, it's just that the Navigator houses make a point to squash you if you have one, due to it being a threat to their power.
Astronomnomicon is nice, but apparently not essential. A number of recent novels have had navigators lead ships away from the light of the Astronomicon. It's a useful beacon, but an experienced/talented navigator doesn't really need it. It's more to make the journey safer, rather than making the journey possible.
And anyway, the Astronomicon is generated by the Astropath Choir, since they already have it in place by the time the Heresy strikes (i.e. before the Emperor's enterment).
Toast36 wrote:Fenris would be fine I say screw terra.
Your ALLfather may be dissappoint.
Milisim wrote:Nothing changes if the emperor dies. All the marine players wont just go out and sell their armies because some guy in a book who they never met just died.
People will still play marines because they can paint them what colour they like and get a T4 3+ SV to start...
Why would anyone give that up because a body tied to a chair died?
I say 6E is in desperate need of a new Chaos uprising, Ork Waagh on a system and a hive fleet to head for Terra... Its abou tthe only way to make it interesting.... If the fluff dosent change I think people will tire of the same old same old and go play something else.....
Get over your obsession with marine players. The blow to the IoM wouldn't take just marines out, it'll delete the whole and 1 species with it.
I'd suggest 3rd ed "the full circle" to be found in a nice tome you are meant to buy with an edition of 40k...
BaronIveagh wrote:
Soladrin wrote:
Apart from chaos spilling into the entire galaxy and all that, but who cares right?
Let me ask you this: If the entire eldar empire imploding into the Eye of Terror didn't do that, why would Terra, as a single planet, do that?
The space elfs were reduced to nomads and we don't even know if it started on 1 planet.
Who guarantees there is no chain reaction?
BaronIveagh wrote:Personally, I really don't see how it matters (other than Terra becoming a daemon world, that is.) If you dig a bit, you find that, other than as a symbol, the Emperor and Terra has very little value or impact on the Imperium at large. If not for the astronomicon, Terra could be already gone and the Emperor dead, and the vast majority of the Imperium would never notice.
Apart from chaos spilling into the entire galaxy and all that, but who cares right?
All that would happen if the Emperor died would be that the Astronomicon would be a little dimmer, and Terra would be overrun with daemons if they didn't get someone onto the throne quickly, and they're already sacrificing thousands to the Emperor daily, so that wouldn't really change much apart from how they die. Well... the Imperium would probably fracture into civil war actually, but that'd just give a good reason for the Space Marines to fight each other.
Actually, I think a whole new era of fluff could be made if humans are forced to evac Terra. I mean, think about it: humans would become refugees, SM chapters would gain more power, and if the Emperor is killed for reallys then the Star Child could come in and unit the now extremely fractured IoM. Over an edition or two, of course.
Soladrin wrote:
Apart from chaos spilling into the entire galaxy and all that, but who cares right?
Let me ask you this: If the entire eldar empire imploding into the Eye of Terror didn't do that, why would Terra, as a single planet, do that?
To use an argument you apparently hate.
Because that's how it is written.
No it's not. It's written that the Emperor's death would leave the Golden Throne unoccupied, which would allow daemons into the unshielded part of the Webway connected to it, giving them direct access to Terra.
Milisim wrote:Nothing changes if the emperor dies.
No, galaxy will be overrun by Chaos Legions but that is a minor thing since Tau are on the other side of the galaxy right
Why would anyone give that up because a body tied to a chair died?
Because that body tied to a chair is the only thing that prevents Chaos Gods from opening portals and summoning Daemon legions on every planet in the galaxy. He also safeguard Human souls meaning that Humans feed Chaos Gods only with emotions. Emperor is as important to Humans as Etherials are to the Tau, but if what you are saying is true then why would Tau change if all of their Etherial get killed?
I say 6E is in desperate need of a new Chaos uprising, Ork Waagh on a system and a hive fleet to head for Terra... Its abou tthe only way to make it interesting.... If the fluff dosent change I think people will tire of the same old same old and go play something else.....
I agree, let us put a large Tyranid fleet Leviathan level invading the Tau Empire. It will be good world campaign to decide the fate of the Tau, and it will be a good show seeing how Tau put everything they have to stop Tyranids. What we also need in 6 edition is more battles involving non-Humans, like Ilayden Craftworld battle. Or another big Ork-Tyranid war...
Durza wrote: No it's not. It's written that the Emperor's death would leave the Golden Throne unoccupied, which would allow daemons into the unshielded part of the Webway connected to it, giving them direct access to Terra.
But who else in the Imperium has that kind of psychic power to replace him? Without him everything fails for sure, and without barriers that Emperor made Terra will be vulnerable.
If the emperor dies and this star child mentioned comes into the picture and the SM decide to go on a crusade to claim more worlds and what not couldn't that open up 40k to maybe new different alien armies possibly avoiding the wars and blah blah fluff fluff and advancement on other armies given the more intense offensive of the powerful SM/imperial guard? As in New tau allies and mechs, new chaos daemon spawn and CSM troops of newer fallen chapters not believing in the star child or just excused by some fluff to give CSM newer weapons or more unique weapons. Stuff like that?
It could all pretty much end with the star child just as crippled as the emperor giving a slight boost leading full circle.. Sort of playing threw a 2nd Horus Hersey, but not. I ask since alot of conversations iv sat in on and some people here seem to think if this happen it will be a sort of 'end' and I just figured I'd ask.
Brother Coa wrote:
No, galaxy will be overrun by Chaos Legions but that is a minor thing since Tau are on the other side of the galaxy right
Yes, becasue we all know that all the heavily fortified worlds surrounding the Eye of Terror will immediately surrender without a fight and all the assorted Space Marine chapters instantly become fanged and tenticaled if the Emperor dies.
Brother Coa wrote:
Because that body tied to a chair is the only thing that prevents Chaos Gods from opening portals and summoning Daemon legions on every planet in the galaxy.
Source? Because I don't recall that being the fluff at all...
Brother Coa wrote:
But who else in the Imperium has that kind of psychic power to replace him?
Without him everything fails for sure, and without barriers that Emperor made Terra will be vulnerable.
What exactly does he do with that power? Because he doesn't power the astronomicon, that's been retconned. All he seems to do with all his power is plug a hole in the warp on Terra. And, BTW: they have already shown that other psykers can do it too, they just die after a short time.
Milisim wrote:Nothing changes if the emperor dies.
No, galaxy will be overrun by Chaos Legions but that is a minor thing since Tau are on the other side of the galaxy right
Again, no, the only thing that would be overrun would be Terra, and only then if no one thinks of putting one of those psykers they were planning to sacrifice anyway onto the throne.
Why would anyone give that up because a body tied to a chair died?
Because that body tied to a chair is the only thing that prevents Chaos Gods from opening portals and summoning Daemon legions on every planet in the galaxy. He also safeguard Human souls meaning that Humans feed Chaos Gods only with emotions. Emperor is as important to Humans as Etherials are to the Tau, but if what you are saying is true then why would Tau change if all of their Etherial get killed?
The Etherals were created to prevent the Tau tribes killing each other. Humanity did pretty well before the Emperor came along, all he did was unify them under a xenophobic regime. Also, to summon daemons, the gods require belief. That's it. The Emperor doesn't even factor into the equation except maybe on planets so close to Terra that there wouldn't be any chance to summon daemons anyway.
I say 6E is in desperate need of a new Chaos uprising, Ork Waagh on a system and a hive fleet to head for Terra... Its abou tthe only way to make it interesting.... If the fluff doesn't change I think people will tire of the same old same old and go play something else.....
I agree, let us put a large Tyranid fleet Leviathan level invading the Tau Empire. It will be good world campaign to decide the fate of the Tau, and it will be a good show seeing how Tau put everything they have to stop Tyranids. What we also need in 6 edition is more battles involving non-Humans, like Ilayden Craftworld battle. Or another big Ork-Tyranid war...
Or they could decide the fate of a few of those extra Space Marine chapters.
Durza wrote:
No it's not. It's written that the Emperor's death would leave the Golden Throne unoccupied, which would allow daemons into the unshielded part of the Webway connected to it, giving them direct access to Terra.
But who else in the Imperium has that kind of psychic power to replace him?
Without him everything fails for sure, and without barriers that Emperor made Terra will be vulnerable.
They don't need someone with the same power. Thousands are sacrificed to him every day, they could just cut out the middle man and put the psykers on the Throne. All they need is a minimum of 20 minutes from them if it's 2000 a day.
Zakiriel wrote:Average sacrificial psycher is not anywhere near the raw power level to last more than a moment on the golden throne.
That's unknown. The problem is that relative psyker power levels are vague at best. It's also unknown if the Emperor survives because he's powerful, or survives because he's immortal. In fluff, others who have plopped thier asses down on the golden throne have lasted hours to weeks. So, the answer is 'whatever the plot requires'.
He lasted long enough for the Emperor to storm the Chaos flagship, get cut to pieces and mind melt Horus, then get brought back. That's at least two hours.
So 2 hours if the regent of terra, the mighiest human psyker that was ( not counting the superhumans ) tries it.
You know how fast you would burn the regulars out?
Its still unimportant as the throne room would be overrun and then terra, mars etc etc..
You can't get anyone able to hold the gate shut on that toilet seat before the flood gates are irreparably broken.
Because, those who want through would make sure they can without anyone closing it again.
They could anticipate the Emperor's death if they watched him closely enough. There was enough time to switch out Malcador for the Emperor, so there should be enough time to switch normal humans. And since they sacrifice thousands to the Emperor every day, they only need about a minute from each one.
Durza wrote:There was enough time to switch out Malcador for the Emperor, so there should be enough time to switch normal humans. And since they sacrifice thousands to the Emperor every day, they only need about a minute from each one.
Would these Psykers have the willpower to be able to hold shut the gate for any length of time, though? Would they be willing to suffer the agony for even that brief time to keep it shut? Is it really as simple as you plug someone in and they're drained or do they have to want to do it and actively hold the tear in the Webway shut?
He has lived for thousands of years fighting the chaos gods, he can survive for another 10,000; then Humanity will die (the Cabal said as much)
Also as GW hate ageing the plot of 40K those 10,000 years seem so much longer...
Durza wrote:There was enough time to switch out Malcador for the Emperor, so there should be enough time to switch normal humans. And since they sacrifice thousands to the Emperor every day, they only need about a minute from each one.
Would these Psykers have the willpower to be able to hold shut the gate for any length of time, though? Would they be willing to suffer the agony for even that brief time to keep it shut? Is it really as simple as you plug someone in and they're drained or do they have to want to do it and actively hold the tear in the Webway shut?
If they can train Grey Knights so well that they never fall to Chaos despite facing what they do, they can train psykers to hold a rift shut for a minute.
orkoidSTD wrote:would it really change the universe that much if he died?
Yes, actually. The Astronominomnomnomicon would go out, which would then make ship travel through the warp impossible (the navigating part, at least. You can still do it, but there'd be no way to tell where you're coming out). And isn't there that Webway portal - the one Magnus busted through and released a good amount of daemons - that the Emperor is keeping closed? He dies, and Terra's going to be overrun.
And since the Focux of 40k is humanity, you basically have the entire IoM coming apart, where the only viable form of collective community is at the star system level.
how does the emperor, a corpse, keep that thing working? does his anus have magical properties of demon banishing or something? and i thought the astronomicon was powered by the souls of a million sacrificed psykers?
orkoidSTD wrote:would it really change the universe that much if he died?
Yes, actually. The Astronominomnomnomicon would go out, which would then make ship travel through the warp impossible (the navigating part, at least. You can still do it, but there'd be no way to tell where you're coming out). And isn't there that Webway portal - the one Magnus busted through and released a good amount of daemons - that the Emperor is keeping closed? He dies, and Terra's going to be overrun.
And since the Focux of 40k is humanity, you basically have the entire IoM coming apart, where the only viable form of collective community is at the star system level.
how does the emperor, a corpse, keep that thing working? does his anus have magical properties of demon banishing or something? and i thought the astronomicon was powered by the souls of a million sacrificed psykers?
The Emperor isn't properly dead. His spirit is still in his body, held there by the thousands sacrificed to him daily. And the Astronomican is. It wouldn't go out without the Emperor.
The Astronomicon is believed to be the manifestation of the Emperor's Will, but whatever physical thing it is made of exists in a different part of the Imperial Palace on Terra than the Golden Throne. It also predates the Emperor's Ascension, if memory serves. He might have been keeping it running in the back of his mind while he was tooling around, kicking ass, but the fluff on that is open to interpretation.
The 1000 psykers a day who are sacrificed to the Emperor are too weak to be of any use. The weakest of all sanctioned psykers, Astropaths, serve as IRC clients for the Imperium. Any weaker than this and your soul is consumed in the blinding light of the Emperor's psychic presence.
While the various grades of psyker ability are somewhat nebulous, even the most powerful of the "alpha-plus" psykers are impotent in comparison to the Emperor. This is a dude who was, in effect, a god incarnate.
It also bears noting that no one is sure what the Golden Throne really is. The Emperor didn't build it, that much is known, it was found on Terra and dug up out of the dirt in, iirc, what is now modern-day Turkey. I kinda get the impression that it's based on the "Space Jockey" from Ridley Scott's "Alien".
The Emperor isn't properly dead. His spirit is still in his body, held there by the thousands sacrificed to him daily. And the Astronomican is. It wouldn't go out without the Emperor.
you didnt answer my question about how he works it. also, how on earth does sacrificing physcics to someone keep them alive? does that work for everyone or just immortal god-beings? and what do you mean by "go out"? couldnt we just bulk up the number of pyskers being chopped?
No. I don't think Games Workshop will kill of something that big. It doesn't sounds like them. Also, it would make more sense to kill off existing Chapter Masters and make new ones to make more money. If the Emperor did die, there would be a huge Eye of Terror.
With enough creativity, it's definitely possible to advance the plot. It could even present a new opportunity to reboot the franchise (as if it's needed).
Here's one for instance.
The Emperor dies, and his soul is released to the warp, with all the consequences that dying incurs (astronomicon goes out etc).
There is a titanic battle as a result - the 'Last Battle' of the Eldar. Ynnead is born and takes out Slannesh.
The Orks unite under this huge conflict and Gorkamorka is unleashed upon the galaxy
The Emperor reasserts himself - being a being of the warp, he has evolved into a true 'God'.
The Tau make huge gains in territory, resources and understanding of the warp. Their 'greater good' takes on a life of its own as a warp entity, empowered by their belief in it.
These 4 entities are the 4 deities of order, a direct parallel to the 4 gods of chaos. They wrestle control of the galaxy and the warp swings towards order. Chaos is vanquished and fades into obscurity.
10000 years later, these 4 deities have imposed a tyrannical regime of order on the universe, and it is up to the brave forces of anarchy and freedom to liberate the galaxy!
Foolworm wrote:With enough creativity, it's definitely possible to advance the plot. It could even present a new opportunity to reboot the franchise (as if it's needed).
Here's one for instance.
The Emperor dies, and his soul is released to the warp, with all the consequences that dying incurs (astronomicon goes out etc).
There is a titanic battle as a result - the 'Last Battle' of the Eldar. Ynnead is born and takes out Slannesh.
The Orks unite under this huge conflict and Gorkamorka is unleashed upon the galaxy
The Emperor reasserts himself - being a being of the warp, he has evolved into a true 'God'.
The Tau make huge gains in territory, resources and understanding of the warp. Their 'greater good' takes on a life of its own as a warp entity, empowered by their belief in it.
These 4 entities are the 4 deities of order, a direct parallel to the 4 gods of chaos. They wrestle control of the galaxy and the warp swings towards order. Chaos is vanquished and fades into obscurity.
10000 years later, these 4 deities have imposed a tyrannical regime of order on the universe, and it is up to the brave forces of anarchy and freedom to liberate the galaxy!
Durza wrote:Humanity did pretty well before the Emperor came along, all he did was unify them under a xenophobic regime.
Humanity had been devastated by Old Night. All across the galaxy, small pockets of humanity were vulnerable to being wiped out by a random Waagh, some other alien monsters, or undone from within by rampant psyker mutations.
Terra itself had been torn apart in the psy-wars, leaving a blasted wasteland filled with roaming bands of genetically-altered techno barbarians that spent most days slaughtering each other. Extinction was a very real possibility. Of course, even then we'd still probably be better off, but that's neither here nor there.
And did someone just suggest an Ork deity as a paragon of order?
BaronIveagh wrote:
And Cue Massive Lawsuit from Micheal Moorcock.
This is GAMES WORKSHOP you are talking about, remember.
It is the 21st century. For more than twenty five years Games Workshop has produced tabletop games from its headquarters in the UK. It is the Master of GrimDark by the will of the courts, and master of a million tabletops by the might of its inexhaustible fans. It is a monolithic enterprise writhing invisibly with power from the Laws of the State. It is the Absolute Owner of Warhammer for which thousands of pounds are sacrificed every day so that it may never go bankrupt.
Yet even in its unassailable state, Games Workshop continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty legal teams wade through the morasses of the Law, the only dictate of justice, their way lit by the trademarks of IP, the intangible manifestation of Game Workshop's will. Vast armies give battle with their products on uncounted tabletops. Greatest among their employees are the Lawyers, crack legal teams, suing all to ruin. Their comrades in arms are legion: the sculptors and countless producers of figurines, the ever-vigilant fanbase and the rriters of fluff to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from fanfics, parodies and knockoffs - and worse.
To be a fan in such times is to be one amongst untold millions. It is to live in the cruelest and most oppresive regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the promise of open domain and free use, for so much has been trademarked, never to be expired. Forget the concept of parody and fan-made, for in the grim dark present there is only lawsuits. There is no peace amongst the fanbase, only an eternity of litigation and ruination, and the jingling sound of cash tills.
fluffywyvern wrote:My friends and I were thinking about what GW might do for the next edition of 40k. One of the things we discussed is that in the 5th edition Rulebook fluff, it mentions that the Adeptus on Terra are no longer able to fix the throne that keeps the Emperor alive. If this was followed through to it's logical conclusion I think that this will happen:
1) The Emperor will die in 6th edition plunging mankind into disarray
2) Chaos will take the opportunity to make a massive offensive on Terra. GW will therefore make the 6th edition boxset Marines versus Chaos. Probably some massive gaming event to go with it also.
3) To balance things out, the Emperor may use his power before he dies to bring back some Primarchs who have been lost/fallen.
4) The first codex after this would probably be Chaos.
You mention bringing the Primarchs back. I could see this happening. All the books I read sound like they are gearing up to bring them back. Russ talking about returning for the Final Battle. Gulliman in stasis with his wounds possibly healing. All I know is I will miss the CSM battlecry: "Death to the false emperor" if you are correct.
Ya I have to say no way the emperor is going to die its just never going to happen they say the 6th Ed is going to be space marines VS chaos so at the most probably a new crusade or some other chaos invasion I believe
I only have played 40K under 5th edition rules, so I'm not sure how the story has advanced or changed until now. I am pretty disappointed by what I am learning....it sounds as if the game is caught in a cycle of non-evolution.
If I were GW and thinking about my product - my main focus would be on advancing the story line to drive sales, and I'd be thinking an edition or two ahead to keep this going. Right now we seem to be in a cycle of one-upsmanship with regard to new codices - which results in a lot of ill will for those whose armies don't evolve at the same pace.
If I were GW, each edition would start with a major change in the human storyline. 6th edition would initiate with the death of the emperor. Humanity is in a state of chaos. Warp travel is dangerous and of very limited use. Psycher ability weakens tremendously. The imperium wars against itself and against the xenos trying to take advantage of the situation. This wouldn't destroy any of the current chapters - but it would throw their mission and roles into question. Sounds pretty grim and dark, and a nice way to shake things up a bit.
GW would then drive sales in 6th by introducing new models that build on this. Pockets of humanity evolve diffferently, likely trying to advance through technology. GW would introduce new models and codex errata that allow their use. We'd have things like jetbikes for Dark Angels, flying gunships for Marines, etc.. Same would go for Xenos trying to take advantage of the situation. You might have other races trying to fill the psychic gap - leading to unanticipated consequences....corrupted Tau, Nids that think beyond their stomach, etc.
The 7th edition would start with humans isolated, dwindling, but with pockets of high evolution. Areas would be protected by the Imperial Guard or Marine Chapters. Some huge event would kick the new edition off...maybe the return of a few primarchs to try to band humanity together, or the return of the Star Child...although not as powerful as originally hinted at. This would then lead to new models and sales.
Ideally, GW would have an evolving story line, with each army changing with every edition...maybe only slightly, but in a way that would require new models. There would be less focus on a new codex driving sales...ideally they could just publish a new codex every edition for each army - updating with the specific changes in that chapter, the new rule effects, and the new models.
Foolworm wrote:
This is GAMES WORKSHOP you are talking about, remember.
It is the 21st century. For more than twenty five years Games Workshop has produced tabletop games from its headquarters in the UK. It is the Master of GrimDark by the will of the courts, and master of a million tabletops by the might of its inexhaustible fans. It is a monolithic enterprise writhing invisibly with power from the Laws of the State. It is the Absolute Owner of Warhammer for which thousands of pounds are sacrificed every day so that it may never go bankrupt.
Yet even in its unassailable state, Games Workshop continues its eternal vigilance. Mighty legal teams wade through the morasses of the Law, the only dictate of justice, their way lit by the trademarks of IP, the intangible manifestation of Game Workshop's will. Vast armies give battle with their products on uncounted tabletops. Greatest among their employees are the Lawyers, crack legal teams, suing all to ruin. Their comrades in arms are legion: the sculptors and countless producers of figurines, the ever-vigilant fanbase and the rriters of fluff to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from fanfics, parodies and knockoffs - and worse.
To be a fan in such times is to be one amongst untold millions. It is to live in the cruelest and most oppresive regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the promise of open domain and free use, for so much has been trademarked, never to be expired. Forget the concept of parody and fan-made, for in the grim dark present there is only lawsuits. There is no peace amongst the fanbase, only an eternity of litigation and ruination, and the jingling sound of cash tills.
That's all very nice, but England signed Berne and GW would get extra double screwed if they came to legal blows with Moorcock, since they can't even claim that he's ignored it before now as a defense, since Berne tosses that right out the Window.
BaronIveagh wrote:That's all very nice, but England signed Berne and GW would get extra double screwed if they came to legal blows with Moorcock, since they can't even claim that he's ignored it before now as a defense, since Berne tosses that right out the Window.
Michael Moorcock is well-known for being sanguine about other authors borrowing from his work, which is fortuitous for GW, given that some of us have been playing for sufficient years to remember when there were 'Gods of Law' in the Warhammer world.
English Assassin wrote:
Michael Moorcock is well-known for being sanguine about other authors borrowing from his work, which is fortuitous for GW, given that some of us have been playing for sufficient years to remember when there were 'Gods of Law' in the Warhammer world.
English Assassin wrote:
Michael Moorcock is well-known for being sanguine about other authors borrowing from his work, which is fortuitous for GW, given that some of us have been playing for sufficient years to remember when there were 'Gods of Law' in the Warhammer world.
Here's to Malal!
Malal (like his replacements Zuvassin and Nechoco) was always a God of Chaos, though his champion, Kaleb Daark, very strongly resembled Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, albeit with a soul-sucking axe and silly new-wave hair. The Gods of Law (as described in Warhammer 3rd ed. and Warhammer Roleplay 1st) were Alluminas, God of Eternity(?), Arianka, Godess of Compassion(?) and Solkan, God of Justice (I don't have the books to hand, so these may be slightly off.). Citadel even made "Daemon of Law" miniatures which looked much like angels (and to which it's possible to infer the Sanguinor might be a sly reference).
I seem to recall that Solkan has been mentioned (albeit only in passing) in later editions as the patron of witch-hunters; the others, however, though never officially retconned, have vanished, like Zoats, Fimir and points cost-balancing, into obscurity.
The emperor is already dead dude. The whole thing about keeping him alive on the golden throne is B/S. Its just the left over psychic residue he had because of how silly powerful he was and sacrificing all the psykers to him is just adding their power to his which has already gone away by now. So its the residue of the psychic energy of the thousand psykers that get killed every day that lingers there making people "think" he is alive.
With the fact he is a skeleton in a shell with no flesh left, the fact that Yarrik has been brought back from the dead already....TWICE! and had his spine regrown and all the super medicine.
They could had easily brought the emperor back to life if it was just a death wound that made him near or at death.
Some say its also the primarch under him from the Blood Angels who is regenerating himself very slowly over all this time.
English Assassin wrote:
Malal (like his replacements Zuvassin and Nechoco) was always a God of Chaos, though his champion, Kaleb Daark, very strongly resembled Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone, albeit with a soul-sucking axe and silly new-wave hair. The Gods of Law (as described in Warhammer 3rd ed. and Warhammer Roleplay 1st) were Alluminas, God of Eternity(?), Arianka, Godess of Compassion(?) and Solkan, God of Justice (I don't have the books to hand, so these may be slightly off.). Citadel even made "Daemon of Law" miniatures which looked much like angels (and to which it's possible to infer the Sanguinor might be a sly reference).
I seem to recall that Solkan has been mentioned (albeit only in passing) in later editions as the patron of witch-hunters; the others, however, though never officially retconned, have vanished, like Zoats, Fimir and points cost-balancing, into obscurity.
I'm aware of that, I was making an 'old school gamer' reference that those among us who are noobs with only ten or so years of background under their belts might understand.
. Personally 
. I don't see why people can't move pass the embarassing chapter of 
kick some writers in the head to get it to happen YES!!
I know I should have left that in my signature, comes from an old ps1 game long before I actually even heard of 
If the emperor were to die i think it would be in the last 40,000 edition ever due to his influence in the game 
