I was wondering what the worst thing a person has done to you in a tournament. I will go first

I had a player come out of the bathroom at a tournament and pick up one of my best painted models and said as he brought it up to look at the model and said, "Ah, man...this hand still smells like crap." I then when remove that model from the table and wrap it up with a tissue and replace it with a Count's as, before going to my next match.

When the necron codex was new, and the only way you had a copy was if you did the preorder army, I had a guy say I was cheating cos of "we'll be back", my destroyers moving 12" and firing, and wraiths moving through cover without rolling.

I had fully explained all this and shown the guy the rulebook before the game.

He also thought the guass rules were other than what they said.

Even when shown again, he insisted I was cheating, and would tell everyone I was a cheat.

Too bad that about 40% of the tournament knew who I was and that I knew the rules, and was actually playing WBB as weaker than what it was as I was removing any model that died to AP3 weapons.

Loaded. Dice.

Went to a tournament, heard some people complaining about how they were beat by someone with very confusing dice (you know, symbols for sixes, that sort of thing) and how they seemed to be rolling really well. I put it down to sore losing, until I was drawn against him a couple of rounds later.

That man rolled a LOT of fives and sixes. A LOT.

darkslife wrote:When the necron codex was new, and the only way you had a copy was if you did the preorder army,

Most tourneys don't allow a new codex to be used in a tourney until a full month after release and will specify what codexes will be legal for that event.

I would be super pissed if you were using a pre-release codex for an army not released yet and the tourney didn't clearly say 'new necron codex is legal'. How fair or fun is it for people to play against an army where you have never seen the codex ever and have no ability to except mid-game? This is why people often get a solid month or two before a new codex becomes part of any tourney.

I would have probably complained to the TO if you were using a pre-release codex in army in a tourney, especially if the Tourney didn't say 'expect to see new codex is legal' which they often do if it is a question. There is a reason it is 'pre' release and not released. Pre-release shouldn't be allowed at a competitive event until everyone has access to it. I wouldn't call you a cheater but I would have let you know I had a serious problem with it.

I remember playing in a tourney around the time of the 5th ed Space marine codex and the tourney explicitly said 'no new codex' because it had literally came out like a day before the event. That was a good call IMHO as it would have been a giant joke to show up and play against 50% new armies which no one had seen the codex and no one knew how to play with or against. The day would have gone from a tourney to 'lern2play space marines' day.

I've only been to one tournament - the friendly Platinum Devil in Canterbury. I was very offended by people's decision to beat me fair and square.

Probably the Last Waaagh indy GT. First off I ordered a shirt and they weren't there at the event. I thought this wouldn't be a problem but it turns out it was (read the end).
I'm having a great tourney until round 5. I walk up and my opponent is playing with his dice and acting really funny. I explain that since we're so low on the totem pole we might as well play for fun and he agrees. What follows was the oddest game of my life.
The entire game he's constantly shuffling through his dice, instead of talking having a good time or looking up at the field he's playing with his dice. I'm also noticing that EVERY time he needs to roll one die for something he passes it. 1 cover save, 1 penetrating hit, 1 lascannon, it doesn't matter if it only rolls 1 die he gets it. He rolls the die really fast and even after a couple of requests to slow down a bit he doesn't.
So the game is wrapping up and I look down and say "Hey wait I thought those symbols on your dice were 6's, why does that die also have a 6?" He responds with "Oh yeah, I meant to find that one before the game started but I didn't have time."
I go to the TO and he says that since it was only 1 die it really didn't matter.
Now 2 years later I still don't have my shirt or a refund.

The worst thing someone has ever done to me in a tournament was yesterday - I was happily rolling dice when some anonymous donor decided that my immediate vicinity should smell like cooking septic system and released their sphincter muscle enough to poison the air with a cloud of toxic methane. My eyes started watering, the TO had to go open the door, and every Dark Eldar model in my army immediately gained Feel No Pain as they were reinvigorated by my suffering. Stupid fart-lovers.

I mean, gamers have BO sometimes, and anonymous air polluters are a fact of 40k - but this literally made my eyes water. I'm not sure how much damage it caused amongst the other gamers, but the experience has mentally scarred me.

Fifty wrote:I've only been to one tournament - the friendly Platinum Devil in Canterbury. I was very offended by people's decision to beat me fair and square.

Haha, yeah. That was going to be my reply.

"The worst thing a player has done in a tournament to me? Shown up."

Tabled my army second turn....worse things have happened.

I had a certain well-known person in the community start a new round within 5 minutes of the tourney round ending even though we were told not to unless there would be enough time for both players to get through it. He argued with me and kept going. It didn't affect the top half of the tourney results or anything terribly significant, but it was just kind of irritating.

Quitting on turn 2.

This being like round 3, both of us where not in contention of winning the tournament. He said he wanted to play it out just for fun. He quit on turn two not because it was one sided but because "he changed his mind and the game didn't really matter."

Great, thank you for wasting an hour of my life.

I showed up to a team tournament without a partner and wound up getting partnered with a Guard player.

We won the tournament, but every round he would complain incessantly about how broken it was that a glance or roll of 1 couple make his vehicles unable to shoot.

At one point, we were winning the final match by about 7 KP's, and he complained non-stop that his basilisk was unable to shoot for 3 rounds in a row.

In another round, he protested the rules for shooting out of cover as being slowed, and accused our opponents of being meta-gamey and unreasonable TFG's for using the rules as written.

I enjoyed my store credit, but I won't partner up with the dude again.

3 Land raiders all anti tank and his troops were all anti troops
I lost every single man.

nkelsch wrote:How fair or fun is it for people to play against an army where you have never seen the codex ever and have no ability to except mid-game?

Honestly, just let me have a quick look through your codex(while you are deploying, for example) and show where it says so in your codex if I believe a claim is too extravagant. The more time you let me have for a look in the codex, the less time we'll spend discussing your rules in game.

The worst I've had a tournie opponent do to me was to rather nastily mock my list building skills. Of course, I ground his list into the dust with superior tactics shortly thereafter....

I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Told me before the game he was an uber competitive player.... Then started saying how everything in his list was rubbish???

This was Ard'Boyz 2010.

I was playing first round at a store nearly and hour away from me since there arent any indy stores close to me in Houston, and the one that was was filled already.

So got into first round was playing an Orc player, asked to look at his list. (nearly everyone there did army builder).
And looked it over said it came out to 2495 points so i was like ok.

Guy had a very complete list filled nearly every FoC slot up cept one or two.

Turns out after i had barely lost to him in the last turn. That i had gone through his list after the tournament was done, and he was 300 points over with 2800 instead of 2500.

Yea that sucked, and he went on to first, and i massacred the next two guys fully.

I took 4th.. by only 10 points from my place to 2nd and 15 from me to 1st.

Had i wont a major victory which it was before the next to last turn, i would of had 1st.

Not showered. Almost every single tournament.

I heard about this the other day, a guy at our local store has an all bike army, his opponent reserves everything, first turn turbo boost, second turn spreading every bike out in his opponents deployment zone preventing him from coming on the board thus winning the game.

2nd day of the Tourny. In the middle of the pack, with no real chance to win.
The opponent I was matched with decides not to show up. I end up playing a gimme game with the TOs wife. Essentially an "auto-win" setup, so while you get a W in your column, you know its unearned, making the game itself less fun...more of just going through the motions.

We all know that life happens and sometimes people need to drop. But to just give up and not show for day 2?
Why did you even bother signing up?

Fists of the emperor wrote:I heard about this the other day, a guy at our local store has an all bike army, his opponent reserves everything, first turn turbo boost, second turn spreading every bike out in his opponents deployment zone preventing him from coming on the board thus winning the game.

Well, then there's this:

http://pokeminiatures.blogspot.com/2009/10/greatest-battle-report-evar.html

Taken from this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/257451.page

Paper list, meet scissors.

I don't think it's bad at all. If people want to trick out a list like that they should expect to
get hosed by other tricks.

3 years ago I went to a 40K tournament with a chaos list (I am not a tournament guy so my list was not really optimal). My second game I went against a dark eldar player. After we were assigned tables he "needed to go to the bathroom".
While I waited 20-40 minutes the guy 2 tables over told me that my opponent was a d#@$ and not to expect a good game.
My opponent comes back, informs me that he did not have an army list for me. I tell him that's ok, let's just play. He said "No, the tournament rules are that I must give you a list, I will write you a list now".
So 10-15 minutes later he hands me a list in poor handwriting that I didn't really understand because I don't really know the dark eldar list.
He takes forever to deploy, and all of his army is in raiders/whatevers all primered black with no way of me knowing which ship had which guns.
So now an hour and half into our 3 hour time limit he tells me he has an army rule where he automatically goes first.
So he is shooting the crap out of me, but slowly. not firing from side to side, oh no. He points at one black ship and fires, then goes to the end of his deployment and fires, etc. to the point where in hindsight I think his heavy ships fired more than once.
We have a rule disagreement that he insists the moderater come over for even though I said whatever. (I was correct by the way).
On my first turn, I take less than 10 minutes.
On his second turn, he moves his vehicles around slowly, fires slowly and then TO says "you have 5 minutes to finish".
And then this clown reaches accross the table to shake my hand and says "we might as well call the game here".

I forced him to give me a 2nd turn, just because I want to remove more of his models off the table. He was such a hole, started playing more WFB after that.

Alastergrimm wrote:I was wondering what the worst thing a person has done to you in a tournament. I will go first

I had a player come out of the bathroom at a tournament and pick up one of my best painted models and said as he brought it up to look at the model and said, "Ah, man...this hand still smells like crap." I then when remove that model from the table and wrap it up with a tissue and replace it with a Count's as, before going to my next match.

You win. I gonna keep reading the rest of the posts, but... damn.

I haven't had a particularly bad tournament game, but the worst experience I've ever had with a fellow gamer was this one time at my local GW back home in California. I was in on a Saturday, slightly odd for me given that I usually come in on weekdays, and finally managed to get a game. While I'm setting up, a guy sitting painting comes up and looks at my models and basicallly starts laughing, picks one up and looks around and says, "Dude, did you paint these? They look like a 5 year old painted them!". Now, I suck at painting so I didn't do anything but just ignore him, but damn..that has got to be the worst experience i've ever had.

A close second would be this one guy who insisted I draw little sticky note labels for everything that wasn't WYSIWYG in a game.

I mean, gamers have BO sometimes, and anonymous air polluters are a fact of 40k

That is so true! Why?!

Wow. Some of you guys have quite a lot of patience.

Was at DaBoyz last November and it was my 3rd game of the day. I had brought my Chaos with a heaping of Khorne Zerkers so my list was very melee happy. My opponent brought in Blood Angels. Sure, this will be bloody and interesting.

Mission was to keep our objective secure and take our opponents before it detonates *Havocs, sit, stay and for the love of god don't do anything stupid!* I place mine in a forest, he puts his off in the corner of the map. I elect my 9 man zerks as the attack force able to outflank, I don't think he chose anything for his.

Game goes on and normally I play with lax cover rules being as my store does it on a more 'does it make sense?' format so I wasn't prepared for such strict measures of 'ok his tire is behind the building corner so i'm getting cover from your shots' As I'm not use to such things I'm a bit skeptical but let them go as I want to get to the fun assault phase. His assault squad catches my plague marines and lash sorcerer and battle ensues. He says that his power fist in the second row is going to clock my HQ in the mouth. Later I realize that since his PF was unengaged he could since it was within 2" of a guy base to base but I argued otherwise. My fault there. After a brief back and forth I submit and let it go just wanted to get to my turn. Sorc dies, Plagues hold. With my turns I advance my berserkers into the thick of his lines and assault stragglers and my deepstruck oblits tear through anything near my objective.

Now on his turn, his HQ, Sanguinary Guard and Sanguinary Priest all drop in close by. That's it. Doesn't run them, doesn't shoot, meh. My turn rolls in and I move a squad of Berzerkers into charge range. My oblits plasma cannon and he says they will go to ground since I'm going to charge anyways. I kill a good handful, pistols claim another and a lucky auto cannon wounds the HQ. I end my turn. No charge. He is livid at this point, very tense looking. Shoots a few more of my zerkers and my turn, my strike force outflanks right where I need them. At that point he calls the game and says he just wanted to leave and that I wasn't fun to play, that he wasn't getting anything from me. *No idea what the hell that even means*

Turn 4 he gave up. Now, I'm a very civil person and try my best to make my games enjoyable and being told I was unfun to play against really doesn't sit well with me.

Edit: I found out that it was Darkwynn. LOL who knew.

Dashofpepper wrote:The worst thing someone has ever done to me in a tournament was yesterday - I was happily rolling dice when some anonymous donor decided that my immediate vicinity should smell like cooking septic system and released their sphincter muscle enough to poison the air with a cloud of toxic methane. My eyes started watering, the TO had to go open the door, and every Dark Eldar model in my army immediately gained Feel No Pain as they were reinvigorated by my suffering. Stupid fart-lovers.

I mean, gamers have BO sometimes, and anonymous air polluters are a fact of 40k - but this literally made my eyes water. I'm not sure how much damage it caused amongst the other gamers, but the experience has mentally scarred me.

Omg! Hahahaha!
- Not that i've got anything to add, but that one cracked me up, big time. If we ever meet in a turney, those DE's of yours got a free FnP from my stomachache right now!

Dashofpepper wrote:The worst thing someone has ever done to me in a tournament was yesterday - I was happily rolling dice when some anonymous donor decided that my immediate vicinity should smell like cooking septic system and released their sphincter muscle enough to poison the air with a cloud of toxic methane. My eyes started watering, the TO had to go open the door, and every Dark Eldar model in my army immediately gained Feel No Pain as they were reinvigorated by my suffering. Stupid fart-lovers.

I mean, gamers have BO sometimes, and anonymous air polluters are a fact of 40k - but this literally made my eyes water. I'm not sure how much damage it caused amongst the other gamers, but the experience has mentally scarred me.

LOL someone crop dusted you!

I went in to my local gaming group and there was the biggest douchbag i ever met. He took up the entire army section table people normally had armies on to move to their gaming tables, crying about which list would be best to use. I ask him if he could move some of his stuff so i could set up my army. He just blurts out no and keeps ticking. Im not looking for any trouble so i just shrug and set up on the D n Dragons table. Then, guess what, Im stuck playing this punk. He cries about my noise marines getting 3 shots with sonic blasters a piece when he is p[laying a tau fire warrior spam with vespids in 1250. He wipes my army turn 5 and still cries about my dual lash army being unbalanced, WHEN I DID GET 1 MARINE INTO ASSAULT THAT HE KILLED. He also argued about the rules my army had and so a game that shouldve taken 1.5 hours literally went for 4 hours. I didnt even shake his hand I just packed up ignored his statements and walked straight out the door without saying a word to anyone still around while the store was closing.

We actually require showering and wearing deodorant in the NOVA Open rules; seriously. Smelling awful mandates that you have a Nurgle Army or be disqualified for not being WYSIWYG, OR WYSIWYG.

Dashofpepper wrote:The worst thing someone has ever done to me in a tournament was yesterday - I was happily rolling dice when some anonymous donor decided that my immediate vicinity should smell like cooking septic system and released their sphincter muscle enough to poison the air with a cloud of toxic methane. My eyes started watering, the TO had to go open the door, and every Dark Eldar model in my army immediately gained Feel No Pain as they were reinvigorated by my suffering. Stupid fart-lovers.

I mean, gamers have BO sometimes, and anonymous air polluters are a fact of 40k - but this literally made my eyes water. I'm not sure how much damage it caused amongst the other gamers, but the experience has mentally scarred me.

hahaha

I have only been to a single tournament, and I ended up getting $25 Credit because I was a finalist - only because no one else showed up. Har har!

Back in 3rd I had a player thumb his wraithlord back a few inches when I wasn't looking.

Over the years, and especially in 3rd when you had Guess ranges, I was the master of eye-balling 6" and 12". I have my Grey Hunters ready to pounce this Wraithlord. He wasn't at 6" he was a little under 5" away. To anyone who plays this game awhile, you know when a distance is clearly under 6".
I turn my head for a second to respond to a friend and turn back and now the Wraithlord is a bit over 7" away. I didn't have to pull out a tape measure, I knew. under 5" to then being over 7" away is huge, and very evident.
I called him out on it, to which he denied it. I didn't walk off or quit, I simply told him to put it back or forfeit. In the end he was disqualified as his "minion" buddy ratted him out when the TO approached due to the commotion.

I have actually had other instances of opponents moving models to far to avoid assault. One year at Adepticon in the TT, our opponents attempted it. My team mate and I just moved our models the same distance to compensate. There was no argument.

Really started getting into tournaments over the last couple of years and have never been to a bad one, given the TO's have become mates of mine but that is by the by. There is always one team in the doubles tournament we attend that is a Father and son alleged Dark Angels army, they basically use which ever is the newest marine codex and convince everyone that their dark green painted and 'transferred' up D/A's are infact a new successor chapter from the latest S/W, B/A's CSM etc.
It isn't a huge issue but it has become a running joke within the tourny scene. But it doesn't end there......this team nearly comes to blows at least once a match...not with the opposition but with themselves. More than once I have seen opponents of theirs having to dive accross the table to protect their newly painted units from the flailing arms of Team 'We are not Dark Angels' as they try to bitch slap each other.

Happy Days lol

I was watching a game my buddy was I and the guy he was playing against straight up cheated. I called him out on his 20 inch move then 9 inch charge. He then yelled at me to mind my own business. So I walked away. But was kinda annoyed this guy had to grossly cheat to win.

My first tournament, I'm playing Kult of Speed orks, under 4th edition, and it's an escalation game, meaning all vehicles start in reserve.

I win the roll for first turn, and opt to go second, knowing my opponent will lose a turn shooting at air, while my guys will roll on turn 1 (KoS special rule).

So, that happens, and we play about 4 turns. It's pretty close, but at the end of my 3rd turn, I've got units of orks in position to launch three separate, solid charges the following turn. My opponent takes his turn and does little to change the field.

And then, he says, 'well, i don't think we have time to get both of our turns in, so this is it'. Being my first tournament, and not thinking more, I agree, and we total up the points for a draw...

Driving home, I realized, we didn't need enough time for both of our turns, I went second and should have had my last turn, with those charges I'd set up.

I don't think it was intentional on his part, because his first turn didn't actually amount to anything, what with no models on the table, and I rolled reserves first, due to my army rule. But it happened.

Say this: "I dont want to play as an evil army any more, I'm too loyal."
Me:"Use your IG as traitor guard"
"They're too loyal to the emperor"

It wasn't a tournament but my opponent has once spilled coke on my models. Worse thing was he didn't apologise, just saying 'accidents happen'.

At the Broadisde Bash last year I was playing versus a sad old man with an IG army versus my Spacewolves.

We were playing on a a table of nothing but building wrecks, we agreed beforehand to play them as rubble not buildings. During the game my opponent puts some models on part of a ruin on the second floor. I measure an assault to them and he says, no, you have to measure 'up' the wall as well. I tell him that's not how area terrain ruins work, and he disagrees, so I suggest we get a judge, he agrees and I step away to find someone.

While I'm gone he moved my models further away. The player at the table next to me passed me a note when I got back that said, "while you were gone he moved your models".

The judge ruled I had to measure 'up' and was out of range and didn't get a charge, so I didn't challenge the issue further and kept the note to myself.

Then I got a ZERO sportsmanship that round, (after I won it legitimately, despite the cheat) because I had called a judge.

Used an army based on 3 maxed out bloodcrusher squads that weren't even made out of games workshop models. he guy just glued 3 plastic Nexu (the cat-like creature from Star Wars Episode II, colosseum scene.) toys to bases and put bloodletters on top. He also arued about every move i made and tried to tell me that khorne demons prevented me from using psychic power.

from what i have read here and the people i have seen play in my area....this is why i have played 10 games in 1 year and refuse to enter tournaments

to me its more about the building and painting

LakotaWolf wrote:from what i have read here and the people i have seen play in my area....this is why i have played 10 games in 1 year and refuse to enter tournaments

to me its more about the building and painting

Don't let these stories fool you; most tournament games are not like this. We're only hearing this stuff because it's more interesting than, "It was a great game, fun time, and no arguments". Standard caveats apply (there's a store that I don't like to play at because of the group there), so your mileage may vary.

I've also found that the more relaxed you are about a game, the more relaxed your opponent tends to be.

Taoofss wrote:Quitting on turn 2.

This being like round 3, both of us where not in contention of winning the tournament. He said he wanted to play it out just for fun. He quit on turn two not because it was one sided but because "he changed his mind and the game didn't really matter."

Great, thank you for wasting an hour of my life.

Had a guy quit top of turn 1 on the first round of a tournament against me once. Back in maybe 4th ed, he deployed a Tau gunline all the way forward on his 12" deployment zone line, directly opposite my Hormagaunts who were deployed the full 12" up on their line. Rolled a 6 for Fleet and got a first turn charge on his Fire Warriors. He promptly forfeit. Didn't roll out the combat or anything.

I've only had one bag tournament game. I actually yelled at the dude, which is way out of character for me.

He just didn't know the rules and kept telling me I was playing wrong and every time when we had to drag out the rule book, I'd show him I how the rules actually worked.

He just had a really, really bad, confrontational attitude that pissed me off. The vast majority of my games in tournaments have been excellent.

I recently had a rather trying game that involved constant rules arguing (he was always wrong), LOS issues (again, he was always wrong) and for some inexplicable reason (TO Discretion) his entire army was proxied. All the while he was behaving in a confrontational and unpleasant manner.

I almost decided that I was done and was going to not finish the game but decided it would be more satisfying to mop the floor with him. Which I did. And it was highly satisfying.

It warms my heart to defeat the annoying and nasally.

Can't say I've had a bad game in a tournament. The worst was having to play the guy that beat the dirt out of me the week before (we tied, he took 2nd, I took 4th), but still it was a rather pleasant game in terms of sportsmanship.

I think the worst tournament experience was seeing someone cheat. He was playing Blood Angels when they came out, fudging numbers and fudging rules. This alone was upsetting to me, but the fact that he was doing it in order to win against a new player who was borrowing a Ravenwing army really got on my nerves. The game was basically over and I mentioned it to the TO but the tfg still took 1st. Sadly, I never saw the RW guy again.

Well, I've never been a serious tourny that went badly but I did once get a bit pissed off with a guy in a campaign I went to.

It was a weekend event, and we were told specifically to bring fluffy, non-optimized lists. The emphasis was on doing silly things (like a whole army of grots, or combat necrons). Nearly everyone who turned up ran crazy lists (the player who came first has a biker khorne chaos space marine list!) . However this one guy turned up with a seriously tournament pimped-out Gazh and battlewagon spam list and proceeded to face-roll everyone he played against.

Luckily the TOs (for want of a better word) didn't let him come first and he completely missed the spirit of it! (So he came second)

The worst thing I've every done in a tournement is give max points to player that didn't earn them. It was a few years back, at the top tables at a VERY large tournement... I regret it in hindsight

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Would this be at the finals? Would it have to do with your opponent lining the board edge so your models could not arrive? If so then the guy you played lives around here. The local group all thought it was hilarious. Although most of us did point out the douchebaggery inherent in the move. However you said "illegal", and I am pretty sure that while lame as hell, it was within the rules.

As for my worst tournament experience. It would have to be the semi finals of Ard'Boyz last year. My first two opponents had to be the two people there that knew the least about the rules, or rather, the ACTUAL rules and not "how they played it at my store". Both games only got to round 4 due to having to get TO rules clarification repeatedly basically crippling my chances to advance. If you have to get verification that vehicles in area terrain need to have 50% coverage to get a save, or that you need half or more of your unit in said terrain to gain the benefit of cover, then you should not be playing in a tournament that size with time limits that tight. At the very least you should trust in Me or the 4 people to our left and right saying it works how I am telling you.

Kaotik wrote:

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Would this be at the finals? Would it have to do with your opponent lining the board edge so your models could not arrive? If so then the guy you played lives around here. The local group all thought it was hilarious. Although most of us did point out the douchebaggery inherent in the move. However you said "illegal", and I am pretty sure that while lame as hell, it was within the rules.

Yeah...I never know how to deal with this one. This past weekend at a tournament, my first round opponent (Mechanized Orks) lost the roll to go first in a pitched battle game against my DE, and reserved everything. While lining the table edge to prevent enemies moving on is a valid tactic (and has been settled by the GW FAQ 1.1), I'd prefer not to do it. I said, "I think you should deploy - I can line your table edge and prevent you from getting onto the table." He said, "I don't want to get shot at." I said, "Getting shot at is better than auto-losing your vehicles because they can't come on." He said, "Still reserving, we'll have an early lunch then."

I didn't line his table edge because I was looking for a good challenge and I'd been told he was the best there. We had a fun game and booze....but I think in any of the GTs I attend this year, if someone reserves on me like that...I'm not giving them a break.

If I remember Yermom's story correctly, he lined the board edges of Yermom's side with Kommandos ... in a Dawn of War mission.

Although you can infiltrate in Dawn of War, you cannot infiltrate units that aren't from the two troop and 1 hq restrictions, so ... if that's the proper remembrance ... and he infiltrated 3 kommando units to line Yermom's board edge, while lining his own with shoota boyz ... then yes, he was totally illegal in what he did / cheated.


From the DOW Mission - "Troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."

WHy didn't Yermom punch him out?

Stupid question: couldn't vehicles tank shock through infantry in that sort of scenario?

or fly over them, if they were skimmers?


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LakotaWolf wrote:from what i have read here and the people i have seen play in my area....this is why i have played 10 games in 1 year and refuse to enter tournaments

to me its more about the building and painting

I think that is a very legitimate position sir! I consider that myself sometimes, sufficed to say, I'm not going back to the BSB this year, and possibly, never.

Also the hardboy, and other tourneys where they dont judge, or even require painting, well they just don't interest me. YMMV.

I had a tyranid player bring a 'tyrannofex' to a tourney game, apparently a TO had given him the go ahead.

The 'Tyrannofex' was basically a slightly converted biovore, so the relatively small model could crouch in cover an pelt my army from safety. I was not amused :(

Dashofpepper wrote:WHy didn't Yermom punch him out?

Not sure if serious...?

Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

I would hope a TO would take a little more time to think about a question that had a chance to end a game before it started. Pretty lame.

At my next 'AB, I'm just going to ask a ridiculously favorable rules question of the TO for each game. Can't hurt, right?

Alastergrimm wrote:I was wondering what the worst thing a person has done to you in a tournament. I will go first

I had a player come out of the bathroom at a tournament and pick up one of my best painted models and said as he brought it up to look at the model and said, "Ah, man...this hand still smells like crap." I then when remove that model from the table and wrap it up with a tissue and replace it with a Count's as, before going to my next match.

I believe you got trolled. (in a friendly game I could see saying that as a bad joke, but I would never do it)

It wasn't a tourney but we were playing a game and my necron destro lord had killed his land raider ( or as he said a guy with a pointy stick *cough warsythe) and he then proceded to knock over the majority of the models on the field and said "and chuck norris came the end". He acctualy could have won but he licked his landraider too much. lol

The problem was....it smell like crap from a distance afterwords.... I had to strip down the model and repaint it to get rid of the smell.

Also in regards to the Tyrannofex, It sucks, but it is legal to have a model be any shape as long as it has the right gear as long as there is no offical model for it.

Polonius wrote:Stupid question: couldn't vehicles tank shock through infantry in that sort of scenario?

I'm pretty sure they could, actually.

Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: Can a vehicle that is moving on from reserves perform
a tank shock? (p68)
A: Yes it can, declare the distance it is going to move
along with its direction and move the tank onto the board
that many inches, measuring from the board edge as for a
normal from reserve. The tank shock is performed as
usual. However, if the tank is forced to stop for any reason
before the entire vehicle is on the board then the vehicle,
and any embarked units, count as destroyed and are
removed from play.

Monster Rain wrote:

Polonius wrote:Stupid question: couldn't vehicles tank shock through infantry in that sort of scenario?

I'm pretty sure they could, actually.

Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q: Can a vehicle that is moving on from reserves perform
a tank shock? (p68)
A: Yes it can, declare the distance it is going to move
along with its direction and move the tank onto the board
that many inches, measuring from the board edge as for a
normal from reserve. The tank shock is performed as
usual. However, if the tank is forced to stop for any reason
before the entire vehicle is on the board then the vehicle,
and any embarked units, count as destroyed and are
removed from play.

If you can tank shock completely onto the board before making contact with the enemy unit / vehicle, then you may indeed tank shock off the table.

However, when you perform a ramming attack, you stop 1" away from the enemy vehicle to resolve it. In effect, you're stopping 1" from the board edge, off the board - at which point the part about "being forced to stop for ANY REASON" before the ENTIRE VEHICLE is on the board comes into play.

So if you're in a 6" rhino, and an enemy vehicle or unit is 7" away from the board edge, you can tank shock into it, because you'll be completely on the table before having to stop for any reason.

Dashofpepper wrote:However, when you perform a ramming attack, you stop 1" away from the enemy vehicle to resolve it.

The picture in the diagram has the Rhino touching the Trukk when demonstrating a ram, so I'm not sure that this is correct.

Dashofpepper wrote:In effect, you're stopping 1" from the board edge, off the board - at which point the part about "being forced to stop for ANY REASON" before the ENTIRE VEHICLE is on the board comes into play.

Yes, you could be stopped for a lot of reasons when ramming. The most common I would think would be not exploding the rammed vehicle with the ram. The fact remains that if someone tries to block your deployment zone with infantry you can drive through them with your vehicles.

Also, if someone has their raiders 7 inches off the table edge you can just drive in sideways.

MVBrandt wrote:If I remember Yermom's story correctly, he lined the board edges of Yermom's side with Kommandos ... in a Dawn of War mission.

Although you can infiltrate in Dawn of War, you cannot infiltrate units that aren't from the two troop and 1 hq restrictions, so ... if that's the proper remembrance ... and he infiltrated 3 kommando units to line Yermom's board edge, while lining his own with shoota boyz ... then yes, he was totally illegal in what he did / cheated.


From the DOW Mission - "Troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of deployment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."

He only ever takes the one unit of Kommandos that I have seen, and never shoota boyz so this might not be the same instance. Although I do not see how this same thing happened at two different Ard Boyz finals. I will call him later today to check and see if this is the same game. Did the finals game happen at Mikhails store?

Kaotik,

I don't know all the details. What I do know is that somehow his opponent was able to line Yermom's deployment zone with models, causing an insta-loss.

This isn't legal in any way at all ... you'd require enough infiltrating troops in just 2 units to completely line the long board edge, and that doesn't exist ... certainly not in an Ork army.

I get where you're going with the comedy part when you first brought it up, too - when I FIRST heard about it in passing, I thought "wow that really sucks but ... tee hee." Then, I thought about it and was like "Wait, wait, wait, how was that legal?" The response was "3 x 15 Kommandoz" ... and then I pondered it a sec after initially going "ohhhhhh" ... and then realized, THAT'S still illegal.

Not to say your buddy cheated him, of course ... he simply may not know the game rules all that well, or didn't at the time, and misread the allowance of infiltration to include any units that can infiltrate.

I think mine was at the NOVA this past year, which had the best games I've ever played, and also one which was the worst. Note: I believe this was the only occurrence at the NOVA of issues, so it no way reflects the overall feeling of the event.

I set up to play against a Tyranid player round 2, who began semi normal, if a bit overally cocky/sarcastic, even for my taste. As the game went on and he was beginning to lose, he began to argue every rule and LOS check that we came to. When my dice rolled well, he'd throw a fit and cuss and stomp around. When asked a question I'd just get a snide remark.

Conversations like: Alright, my russ is firing at the hive guard
"you don't have LOS"
(i check it, I can see two of the models) I can see two models, come over and look from my side
"FINE WHATEVER I DONT CARE, IM NOT CHECKING, JUST TAKE IT"

As the game wore on the statements got nastier and nastier with inclusions of "whatever I dont give a shXX, you've done this all game".

It got bad enough that a friend that had attended with me who stopped by went and got a judge to come watch the game after seeing how frustrated I was getting. I tried to let it roll off and just responded to the previous statements with "okay. lets move on." but it nearly came to a head at the end..my Vendetta moved to tank shock a gaunt unit. At this point, the guy began flipping out and yelling about how I couldn't. I asked him to calm down and just let me look it up. At this point the judge stepped in, and decided to handle it and look it up for us, immediately the guy got even more frustrated and snapped at the judge, at which point the Judge informed him "You need to calm down and let me look this up".

It was deemed I couldn't do it (my mistake, the vendetta isn't a tank) so I just moved close (12 inches) and disembarked. I was close enough to contest the objective, and win the game.

Upon tallying objectives the guy flipped and claimed I'd cheated and moved the unit closer, and that there was no way I could of contested. I informed him I hadnt, and that if I wanted to I still had the run move I didnt even use. He then went on a tirade about how I was no fun to play, Id been pulling crap all game, etc etc. During his final tirade, I started to say "You know what, you've...(and then caught myself) and said "nevermind..it's not worth it, lets just tally this up and be done with it." He refused to score the game and just kept saying "whatever, take max points, I dont give an f'ing shXX".

The judge stepped in, the guy ragequit the event, and that was that. I requested not to get max points, because I didn't deserve them (it had been a close game), and tallied up my real score with the judge.

However, I missed ren. man (got 4th) by .07 points, and I hate to think it, but my sportsmanship score (max for my other games I believe, my opponents told me they had a good time and showed me what they filled out) could have bumped me all the way to 1st. Apparently this guy, from what the people in the area after the guy left told me, has a reputation of acting like this if he isn't winning.

C'est la vie, TFG's are everywhere, and I still had a good time despite it. But I've never been more flabberghasted.

@MVB

There is always the possibility of mistakes being made by TO's/Players, but Alex (kartofelkopf on here) is spot on with the rules the vast majority of the time. I cannot see him trying to deploy over what was allowed in DoW, but stranger things have happened. I remember it being described to us after he got back, but like you, I do not remember many details. However I do not remember any of our group calling him on it being illegal at the time, and most of us are pretty good on the rules ourselves. You are 100% correct though that if it went down as you stated it was not legal.

Since the guy in question is a friend of mine, and the main person from our group that travels around to tourneys with me, I will ask him about it when we talk next. Not out of any need to prove either party wrong, it's just got my curiousity piqued. Actually surprised he has not read this thread and commented himself as he checks dakka pretty regular.

At astro last year, despite it being a great event, I had a bad experience with a guy I know outside the game. We don't generally get along for various reasons, although because we are sometimes in the same social group we are at least civil. So playing a game together in a tourny shouldn't have been bad.

Last round of astro, I'm 4-1 after losing my first game to the guy who often wins, who is 4-0-1 (he had given up a draw) going into the last round. I know that I still have a chance to win this thing, if the last game doesn't go well for the guy who beat me in round 5.

I'm up against a pretty bad ork list, so I'm happy about my chance. Straight up Victory point game starts off, I get first turn, even better. I shoot down a bunch of stuff, move my LR up a bit figuring he has nothing that can really threaten it first turn. On his turn, he shoots his tankbustas at it, claiming they have tankhunters. I knew something was wrong about this, and asked him if he was sure they had it. He looked annoyed at me and said they did. I didn't want to cause a problem and figured I was wrong about it. Huge mistake.

He unloads 10 shots, and gets like 8 hits. Then he proceeds to get 4 sixes and 2 fives on the penetration roll. Since he was playing his tankbusatas as tank hunters, he is shooting S9 at me and gets 4 pens and 2 glances. LR blows up. Now my terminators have to walk across the battlefield. Over the course of the game the tankbustas destroy a vehicle a turn, and he gets very lucky on KFF saves.

The end result is that I had to play extremely offensively since he had such a huge VP lead by destroying the LR. Thing is, the Tankbustas are not tank hunters, so the LR should have been immobilized and thats it. The rest of the turns of shooting wouldn't have been as bad either, since S8 doesn't have the same penetrating power as S9.

My fault for not making an issue out of his "incorrect" usage of the tankbustas, but I felt really cheated. I could have afforded a shooting attrition war if he wasn't playing the tankbustas like that. I had a good chance for best general that this guy basically cheated me out of.

Needless to say we don't get along at all now, since I called him on it after the event when I was going over the games with an ork player friend.

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Okay.
*This* is something I'll beg to see the details of. : )

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Okay.
*This* is something I'll beg to see the details of. : )

Eric

Check MVB's posts above. To paraphrase, this was (POTENTIALLY, (as his report is 2nd or 3rd hand) a misunderstanding) involving how Dawn of War and Infiltrators work to block off a table edge and prevent someone from coming on the board.

pretre wrote:I would hope a TO would take a little more time to think about a question that had a chance to end a game before it started. Pretty lame.

At my next 'AB, I'm just going to ask a ridiculously favorable rules question of the TO for each game. Can't hurt, right?

That's an effective strategy for a lot of games. Off topic, but if it's half-way believable, you should start off every Scrabble game that you go first by dropping a fake 7 letter word. If they challenge and you lose, you go second instead of first (which is often more advantageous). If they challenge and lose or don't challenge, you get 50 bonus bonus points and a double word score

MVBrandt wrote:Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

Hey, that Ork player was me.

He won the roll for first turn, and deferred to me.

I set up my boyz (60 of them) along one half of board edge, with rest ready to move up.

Snikrot and kommandos started in reserve (as they have to-- DOW or no).

Snikrot came in second turn, and I was able to line the far edge of table, and boys on my side had moved and run twice to get to meet the kommandos up his edge.

He had less than 3" to come in on the left side, and was only able to put a partial genestealer unit, and only one of his units came in on other side.

The reason we had to call the TO over was because the table had slightly rounded corners and he was arguing that he should be able to come in on those corners because I hadn't lined them as if they extended out another 1".
---------------

After he conceded, I offered to redeploy and play a real game, but he (rudely) declined, and I was stuck in Philadelphia for 2 hours with nothing to do.

While I know that can be a rough go, no reason to go online and disparage others. And MVBrandt-- very disappointed in you for passing along faulty accounts secondhand. Not the sort of e-drama I'd expect from you.

Why did Snikrot come on before the 'nids got to walk on on turn one in the Dawn of War deployment?

Did he keep everything in actual "reserves?"

kartofelkopf wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

Hey, that Ork player was me.

He won the roll for first turn, and deferred to me.

I set up my boyz (60 of them) along one half of board edge, with rest ready to move up.

Snikrot and kommandos started in reserve (as they have to-- DOW or no).

Snikrot came in second turn, and I was able to line the far edge of table, and boys on my side had moved and run twice to get to meet the kommandos up his edge.

He had less than 3" to come in on the left side, and was only able to put a partial genestealer unit, and only one of his units came in on other side.

The reason we had to call the TO over was because the table had slightly rounded corners and he was arguing that he should be able to come in on those corners because I hadn't lined them as if they extended out another 1".
---------------

After he conceded, I offered to redeploy and play a real game, but he (rudely) declined, and I was stuck in Philadelphia for 2 hours with nothing to do.

While I know that can be a rough go, no reason to go online and disparage others. And MVBrandt-- very disappointed in you for passing along faulty accounts secondhand. Not the sort of e-drama I'd expect from you.

No need to make more if it than it is, I think everyone was being pretty respectful and thinking it was a misplay of the rules, not a slight against you at all.

That being said, just a mechanics question (no implications!!!). Your boys units would move 6 inches, run, move 6 inches, run by the time he potentially came in (if he used reserves, instead of just walking on on turn 1). In order to block him, you'd ahve to have 11/12 inches possible with all of the boys, and this is if there wasnt any terrain to cause terrain checks. Any less than that and you'd be 2 inches from his edge, making him able to come in in his 1 inch section. Was this the case? If so it seems you two were just in an unlikely quandry here.

pretre wrote:Check MVB's posts above. To paraphrase, this was (POTENTIALLY, (as his report is 2nd or 3rd hand) a misunderstanding) involving how Dawn of War and Infiltrators work to block off a table edge and prevent someone from coming on the board.

All I see is a bunch of people saying what it could've been.
I'd like to see his description of events.
Also, that was back on page 1 when I responded. I hadn't read through to page 5.


That said...

Worst thing that ever happened to me was playing my CSM against DE in a tourney a couple years ago.
With one exception, which I did and still do write off as a rules interpretation issue, there were no problems with cheating or anything.
In the end, I eeked out a tie, which was all about how well I played and not about the lists. He had a very tough list.

The problem was the guy. He was your typical TFG the whole game. It's obvious he wanted to win and, when he wasn't, he turned into a d*ck.
Despite the tie and the 0 he gave me on sportsmanship (I'd decided to stop taking his attitude and called him on it, even giving it right back to him when it still didn't stop), when all my other games had maxed sportsmanship, I won the tourney.

I couldn't make the next tourney at the store, but two of my buddies did. He ended up playing both of them and, when he found out we played in the same group, he tried to dog my reputation the whole game (both games). Said I tried to cheat on my moves, lied about die rolls, etc.

Fortunately, I've never seen him at the shop again.

Eric

Monster Rain wrote:Why did Snikrot come on before the 'nids got to walk on on turn one in the Dawn of War deployment?

Did he keep everything in actual "reserves?"

Yeah, this.

The explanation seems less likely than the second hand account. I seems crazy that Yermom would put everything in real reserves on DoW. Especially after he sees you line up at the 24" line. Add to that the math below for run rolls (5 and 6) and no difficult terrain between you and the board edge and that's just a crazy set of circumstances coming together.

Fantasy references below, but still bad!

I was playing in a tournament and my shades did 3 wounds to a nurgling base. He said they had 4 wounds and thus 1 left.

I asked him if he wouldn't mind looking it up, because I was pretty sure they have 3.

He looked it up, stared directly at the profile without showing me and confirmed they had 4. (For those of you wondering, they actually have 3)...

It wasn't a huge deal in the game, but I was pretty surprised that he blatantly cheated me right to my face.

Later that game he also tried to tell me that mindrazor doesn't affect armor saves (which it does).

The funny part of this whole thing is I gave him max sports, because I don't ding people, but he gave me a zero, despite HIM cheating.



I play a lot of tournaments and, in general, I'd say the best approach to people doing shady gak is to not let them get away with it. If you are on the ball, call them on their over-measuring, get judges if they are slow playing and are very proactive, it generally helps mitigate the total level of cheating. At the end of the day, an angry nerd will be an angry nerd.

kartofelkopf wrote:

MVBrandt wrote:Yermom is a really cool guy, and the TO was called over and said the guy could do it (incorrectly reading the rule and not really getting the question from what I understand).

Yermom was also playing a Tyranid army, all foot, so could not tank shock a damned thing ... or fly over.

He'd also declared everything was coming on Turn 1.

He just autolost as soon as the game started.


Caveat - I wasn't there; maybe some weird rule allowed the guy to put 2 troops units on Yermom's board side, but, I doubt it.

Hey, that Ork player was me.

He won the roll for first turn, and deferred to me.

I set up my boyz (60 of them) along one half of board edge, with rest ready to move up.

Snikrot and kommandos started in reserve (as they have to-- DOW or no).

Snikrot came in second turn, and I was able to line the far edge of table, and boys on my side had moved and run twice to get to meet the kommandos up his edge.

He had less than 3" to come in on the left side, and was only able to put a partial genestealer unit, and only one of his units came in on other side.

The reason we had to call the TO over was because the table had slightly rounded corners and he was arguing that he should be able to come in on those corners because I hadn't lined them as if they extended out another 1".
---------------

After he conceded, I offered to redeploy and play a real game, but he (rudely) declined, and I was stuck in Philadelphia for 2 hours with nothing to do.

While I know that can be a rough go, no reason to go online and disparage others. And MVBrandt-- very disappointed in you for passing along faulty accounts secondhand. Not the sort of e-drama I'd expect from you.

Hey, I didn't think I was starting e-drama ... totally my bad. Like I said, it could have easily been a misunderstanding; also, like I repeatedly said, I wasn't there, just what I'd heard. I'm glad you've come on to clear it up! It seems weird that he would reserve his whole Tyranid army in Dawn of War ... if that's what happened, you got him good 'n proppa!

The net's toneless; I didn't know who was involved, and tried to make a point of that ... sucks that it was misinterpreted - apologies.

No need to make more if it than it is, I think everyone was being pretty respectful and thinking it was a misplay of the rules, not a slight against you at all.

That being said, just a mechanics question (no implications!!!). Your boys units would move 6 inches, run, move 6 inches, run by the time he potentially came in (if he used reserves, instead of just walking on on turn 1). In order to block him, you'd ahve to have 11/12 inches possible with all of the boys, and this is if there wasnt any terrain to cause terrain checks. Any less than that and you'd be 2 inches from his edge, making him able to come in in his 1 inch section. Was this the case? If so it seems you two were just in an unlikely quandry here.

The whole schtick of his list was the outflank-- I believe it was 6x genestealers coming in, and 3 of them came on blocked side. Orks start at 24", get 2 turns of movement/run, and then kommandos come in also.

It wasn't that it was an auto-lose, it was that he ragequit over losing those units.

His account regarding "3x kommandos" -absolutely inaccurate. I was running 2x lootas, and I don't even have sufficient kommandos to run 3 units of 'em.
-------

I think saying you were cheated in a tourney is a bit more than calling it a "misplay."

kartofelkopf wrote:
The whole schtick of his list was the outflank-- I believe it was 6x genestealers coming in, and 3 of them came on blocked side. Orks start at 24", get 2 turns of movement/run, and then kommandos come in also.

Now that makes a lot more sense. Outflank blocking is significantly easier to pull off. I can see you doing that. Consider my curiosity appeased.

Speaking of Genestealers:

I was running a Necron force, heavy on the infantry, deployed waaay back near my edge.

My opponent took 6 units of stealers as his troops (120 of them) and infiltrated them all 18 inches from my gunline (pretty clear terrain- planet billiard ball ) then proceeded to roll 6's for all there run moves, one after another. 6 6's in a row !

Needless to say i lost the game on turn 1 (crons suck in assault and phased out) but he was utterly shocked, as was I. No loaded dice involved. I play the guy often, and his luck is generally average at best.

We ended up spending more time on setup than the game, then put our armies in the trays and wathced the other games for the hour and 45 left on the 2 hour match.

To be fair i would probably have got reamed on turn 2 if he hadn't made all his 6's, but i would at least have got to gun some of them down first

Ya it is also a known TACTIC, and something outflank armies have to watch out for. A pretty far stretch from "Got cheated in the Ard'Boyz finals" if you ask me. I play Kart quite often, losing more than winning and trust me he knows the rules. He is the one guy in the store I will ask for rules questions and not double check even if it sounds off from what I remember. Is why I found it VERY unlikely he would make a mistake like over deploying units in DoW.

@Kart- I immediately remembered the outflank part once you said the thing about the 1" at the corners. One word, HUGE difference. Me personally, I would have taken a crap in your car at some point if you did that to me at a tourney. But that is a friend thing.

@MVP- you pretty much maintained a neutral stance throughout. Probably a little misplaced anger there about someone claiming he cheated them out of the last round of a major tourney.

Ascalam wrote:Speaking of Genestealers:

I was running a Necron force, heavy on the infantry, deployed waaay back near my edge.

My opponent took 6 units of stealers as his troops (120 of them) and infiltrated them all 18 inches from my gunline (pretty clear terrain- planet billiard ball ) then proceeded to roll 6's for all there run moves, one after another. 6 6's in a row !

Needless to say i lost the game on turn 1 (crons suck in assault and phased out) but he was utterly shocked, as was I. No loaded dice involved. I play the guy often, and his luck is generally average at best.

We ended up spending more time on setup than the game, then put our armies in the trays and wathced the other games for the hour and 45 left on the 2 hour match.

To be fair i would probably have got reamed on turn 2 if he hadn't made all his 6's, but i would at least have got to gun some of them down first

Doesn't work, Infiltrate says you must be deployed MORE than 18" away.

pg 75 of the BRB says they can be deployed 12" away from an enemy unit as long as they are out of LOS, but can be deployed 18" away even if they are in full LOS.

Ascalam is completely correct. He can easily deployed 18.0000001 inches away from the nearest enemy model.

Ascalam is incorrect. The Infiltrate rules clearly state MORE than 12" and MORE than 18". If you hide your unit out of LOS you can certainly get a turn 1 charge with Fleet, but if they're in LOS Stealers can't do it.

More than 18" away doesn't mean he has to be 19" away. If we were to draw a line on a board that represents me being 18" away, and I stand right behind that line, I am still 'more than' 18" away. I'm just 18.01 inches away, and in a standard game of 40k, that .01 inch is easily part of the margine of error.

ChrisWWII wrote:More than 18" away doesn't mean he has to be 19" away. If we were to draw a line on a board that represents me being 18" away, and I stand right behind that line, I am still 'more than' 18" away. I'm just 18.01 inches away, and in a standard game of 40k, that .01 inch is easily part of the margine of error.

Except in a first turn situation, I, as your opponent, know there is no way you can charge me.

6"move + 6"fleet + 6"charge = 18 not 18.00001

Big difference.

Over the course of a game, .0001 isn't as big a deal and probably is lost, but first turn is super important. Just like your bolters will not be shooting at me in pitched battle turn one, don't even bother measuring.

In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

ChrisWWII wrote:In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

If you do that, then you have mis-measured at some point and charging turn one is in violation of the rules hence not insignificant.

Would you allow me to fire 48.5 inches with my lascannons at you? I'm sure that 0.5 is insignificant as far as the game goes.
When does it become significant? Can I move 6.1 or only 6.01?

Yeah - it would seem to require willful deception or stretching of the rules to do this ... measurements are not intended to be guesstimations ... while mismeasuring almost by definition occurs, when you KNOW Something can't happen by the rules, you should not do it or get away with it "by accident."

Said another way, if I measure 48.01" with a lascannon and we both go "oh in range" erroneously and are never the wiser, that "happens."

If I get off a charge when I by requirement MUST have been too far away for it to be legal, and I know this b/c I know the rules, missing my measurement by .01" is incorrect, b/c I know mathematically I cannot do it before even the first move occurs.

Agreed. When you know, mathematically, that it can't happen, you simply don't allow it. During the game the occasional mis-measure will happen, but when you're mathematically certain, there's no reason to allow a game-changing inaccuracy.

It's never negligable, especially when it comes to stealers gaining a 1st turn assault. If you know it to be a mathematical impossibility I don't care if you end up in b2b because human error said you can, it is impossible such that:
my $Distance = 18.00000 (ad infinitum) 01
while($Distance > 18){
print "Out of range";
$Distance =$Distance -.00(ad infinitum)01;
}
print "In range";


I know not everyone can understand code but trust me that code MUST print "Out of range" at least once before it prints "In range".
Also this is one argument I see for pre measuring. You can simply agree with your opponent "These models are 18.5 inches away from each other right?" Seeing the tape he will probably agree. If he tries to assault you next turn all you have to do is reinforce that "We both agreed you were over 18" away, it is mathematically impossible for you to charge."

Back on topic I had someone say my codex was wrong. He thought he could kill choosers of the slain but they aren't models they are just markers. Even after I showed him he said "Well they either FaQ'd it or your codex is a misprint".
Funny thing is I let him shoot them with his LR & when asked for their T & Sv I told him they didn't have any. He flipped and called over the TO, who not surprisingly ruled in my favor.

Heh.

I had someone try that with my ammo grotz for my SAG Mek once too.. He was out of range for the mek, and kept claiming the grots were attached to him as a unit, even after i showed him the bit in the codex that says they are nothing but markers:

Thanks for the clarification on the stealer rush, guys

We did check it with the rather busy TO and he ruled in the Nids favor, right or not, so its more something to bear in mind for next time.

I've never been treated badly by others in a tourney. I have brought illegal lists due to my lack of understanding of the unorganized mess that we all like to call Codex: Tau Empire, but thankfully I have been called out on that before anything important in Round 1 happens. However that still mars my conscience, along with the lack of knowledge that crisis suits can't jump after deepstriking (thank you for not making that obvious GW).

Ascalam wrote:Thanks for the clarification on the stealer rush, guys

We did check it with the rather busy TO and he ruled in the Nids favor, right or not, so its more something to bear in mind for next time.

Funny; but it does remind us that TOs are human too. He might have misunderstood the question- maybe thinking that the stealers had started out of LOS, or that the Necrons had gone first any for some inexplicable reason moved forward a little. Or he might have been thinking of an earlier edition; the 3rd and 4th edition rules weren't as clear about it being more than 18".

Kaotik wrote:

yermom wrote:I was cheated at an ard boy'z tournament a year ago. The guy effectively auto tabled me, it was illegal but the judges ruled in his favor.

Would this be at the finals? Would it have to do with your opponent lining the board edge so your models could not arrive? If so then the guy you played lives around here. The local group all thought it was hilarious. Although most of us did point out the douchebaggery inherent in the move. However you said "illegal", and I am pretty sure that while lame as hell, it was within the rules.

.

I believe that some of the problem here is that we have two different games being discussed here. I think Yermom/Nick said 'ardboyz and not necessarily the finals.

The incident Kaotik is referencing, I believe happend at the east coast finals, and didn't involve Yermom. (Disclaimer: Going from memory, it was a long day, with many rules calls. Only remember this one better from re-reading a recent email where we talked about it.)The problem arose because of some of the tables we were using, provide by GW, with the rounded corners. Familiar to anyone that's been at a GW GT or games day. The ork player lined the true edge of the board, going around the rounded area. The nid player thought the edge would start at the corner where the board would be if it was a true rectangle. By the time the Nid player got on his stealers, the orks had advanced far enough to turn the corner and seal off the edge. Without the stealers, it was pretty much game over.

His opponent did ask him about playing again, but the Nid player elected not to stay, and get an early start home. Something I think we can all respect, since many of the people coming for the finals drove a long ways to get there.

It sounded like what Yermom was describing was an error by his opponent and the TO in letting the Kommandos set up on the board in dawn of war, illegal since they are not troops.

Thanks for the details about the similar situation in the Finals, Mikhaila!

Kartelkopf gave us more details about his game, if you read the rest of the thread.

Wow... didn't mean to stir up so much drama. I honestly dont think the game kartelkopf is thinking of is the game we played. I'm completely 100% certain that it was the ard boyz semi finals. NOT the finals. It was also in New Jersey, not Phili. Also I did not "rudely" decline a real game afterwards. In fact what actually happened is that I was contemplating (to myself in my head) asking my opponent for a real game, but decided against it, as I wanted to go home early, and just wasn't up for it after somethign so demoralizing. I was never OFFERED a real game. In fact, while he was lining my board edge, my opponent made a snarky comment of "I didn't feel like playing anyway", which really pissed me off.

I have nothing against kartelkopf. I just think he is getting confused between games here.

Yermom, you say that your opponent lined "your" board edge?

That does sound like a totally different game than the one Kartelkopf's talking about- in his, he lined the short table edge/s to block Outflanking Genestealers.

He lined my long 72" edge. Also I only had 2 units of 5 stealers, so even if had used his kommandos out flanking to cover the side edges, the effects would be relatively small in comparison.

yea... having seen and played against yermoms list, I don't think that was the game... AND after talking to the judge for that event at a later event...

You just happened to have a similar game... unless your opponent was a little skinny indian kid :p

Lol. These are all so funny!

Worst thing was this guy i was playing at a local tourney (which i won) when he lost he started to thrw his stuff on the ground and literally, cried like a two year old with a tantrum. Then when he got up., he kicked the table, and when he reached to grab his foot he smacked his dumb ass face on the table...lol

Double elimination fantasy tourney, 4 players left and winners played eachother for 1st and 2nd place with the losers playing for 3rd and 4th. The guy I played haden't lost once untill we played and we haden't had any tension or anything it was a nice friendly game, when I beat him he was so mad that he'd lost (mind you he wasen't out of the tournament) that he actually picked up my converted Saurus Lord on a Carnosaur which was probably the best model I've ever painted. Threw it on the ground and stomped on it, he only stopped when I socked him in the face. The only thing that stopped me from kicking his was the other players.

He was emmediatly disqualified from the tourney, kicked out of the gaming club and refused service at the store (the next closest store was 3 hours away). I played the already eliminated runner up (who should have gotten 5th) and he beat me so I came in 4th and didn't get a prize but the store did allow me to get anything I wanted up to the same value as my carnosaur lord for free.

Interesting that table edge lining is so common now. I blame the infamous game. Wasn't the MGS?

ChrisWWII wrote:In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

Ehhh I have used it in 1000 point games with cc scouts, infiltrate 18 away followed by a scout move than, all dependent on going first of course, move fleet assault. I do run Shrike though this is still technically impossible with non-fleeting scouts as you should be 18.01 inches away at least thats how I interpret it.

LegendJRG wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

Ehhh I have used it in 1000 point games with cc scouts, infiltrate 18 away followed by a scout move than, all dependent on going first of course, move fleet assault. I do run Shrike though this is still technically impossible with non-fleeting scouts as you should be 18.01 inches away at least thats how I interpret it.

There is a reason for the spesification of over 18" away, it is to disallow these easy first turn assaults.

that he actually picked up my converted Saurus Lord on a Carnosaur which was probably the best model I've ever painted. Threw it on the ground and stomped on it

I find these kind of posts so hard to believe, do people like this actually exist? Have they not been weeded out by evolution by now? Also, the sanctions these alleged people have gotten afterwards are usually very light. Nobody thought about making him pay for damages (including paint-time) and just keep his army as hostage if he didn't comply? Why did people stop you when you beat him? I just can't see this kind of behavior getting off that easy in any tournament I've attended.

pretre wrote:Interesting that table edge lining is so common now. I blame the infamous game. Wasn't the MGS?

I for one am amazed it happened at two different locations with the same armies. I am also sorry about the confusion since I mistook the two games. My apologies to all involved. Same tournament, same situation, same armies....two cities. Lottery level odds there.

It's rather cool, though, Kaotik - means we were all in the right, haha.

LegendJRG wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

Ehhh I have used it in 1000 point games with cc scouts, infiltrate 18 away followed by a scout move than, all dependent on going first of course, move fleet assault. I do run Shrike though this is still technically impossible with non-fleeting scouts as you should be 18.01 inches away at least thats how I interpret it.

Infiltrate, scout (no closer than 12.01), move, fleet, assault is legal. You're right that Infiltrate (18.01 or 12.01), move, assault is illegal and not even likely for scouts.

pretre wrote:

LegendJRG wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

Ehhh I have used it in 1000 point games with cc scouts, infiltrate 18 away followed by a scout move than, all dependent on going first of course, move fleet assault. I do run Shrike though this is still technically impossible with non-fleeting scouts as you should be 18.01 inches away at least thats how I interpret it.

Infiltrate, scout (no closer than 12.01), move, fleet, assault is legal. You're right that Infiltrate (18.01 or 12.01), move, assault is illegal and not even likely for scouts.

Unless they are scout bikers : )

This didn't happen at a tournament, but felt like it's worth mentioning...

I game at the local GW store in NY occasionally, but haven't been back in sometime due to family obligations (Yay for parenthood!). Anyways, I've noticed this one person there, who while watching a game, would come out and blurt some comment on something that happened, usually if it's something that he feels contradicts the rules. In this case, (since it was my game that he commented on), he said that units in a vehicle don't need to take a Pinning check if the vehicle is destroyed. I tell him that he's incorrect, and that it's in the rulebook. Guy walks off, scratches his head, and thumbs through a rulebook. Don't hear from him for the rest of the day.

So days go by, and I'm playing another person, and he butts in again, showing me and my opponent something out of the codex. However this time, he was correct. So I thought "Okay, maybe this guy isn't all hot air afterall". So later on, during the same game, I ask him a question on something (which I thought was general knowledge, since the question was out of the BRB). He shrugs, without so much as a comment, and walks away...

Now, maybe this story better qualifies as a "TFG Story", but something about people who watch and constantly comment on other people's games really gets to me. It would be one thing if he knew what he was talking about, and if he managed to articulate himself without sounding like a total nimrod, but this one person's attitude and demeanor just totally screams out "TFG-type" characteristics.

Oh well... /rant.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:This didn't happen at a tournament, but felt like it's worth mentioning...

Got really hopeful here for a second that something wacky was about to happen, like he comes back a week later to prove you wrong and hasn't slept since that original game researching how he was right. Just run of the mill backseat driver though.

I have nothing to compare with these...but I will add my own little annoying stories...

Went to one tournament...a guy walked in and asked what everyone was running...then after hearing what was being run he then decided which army he was going to run...

At another tournament, waited an hour and a half for a guy to show up...and this same guy complained during another tournament about having to wait for a game of my own to conclude...

One guy told me in the middle of a tournie that his unit was in area terrain and got a cover save, although we had never discussed it he got his way...and the terrain in question was a wall and a barren floor and I had an unobscured view of all of his models...

Worst one was a tournie where my friend and I showed up to play...my friend was asked to be judge, so he agreed...then when it was found we had an odd number of players, he was asked to play and be judge. He was not eligible for the prize, just a filler.

So we end up playing one another the second round. I wind up disagreeing with him on like 4 different rulez, ask the storeowner to call it, and win 3 of the 4 decisions.

I wind up 2nd or 3rd, and my friend was accused of throwing his game with me so I could move up in the rankings...excuse me, but didn't you notice half of our game was arguing over the rules? Obviously he wasn't throwing anything!

Hi

Perhaps the most unfortunate misunderstanding that I have ever had in a tournament occurred not too long ago. I still don't know what to think of what occurred in terms of "blame."

It was day two of an event and my opponent and I were in decent contention. I was tired, and hungover, and my lower back troubles were acting up something fierce. If you have every had your entire midsection in pain for multiple reasons, you can sympathize.

At the start of the game, we discussed terrain features, and we agreed that one piece in particular (right in the middle of the board) would be impassible for "vehicles". When I hear that term, I assume that refers to the section of the rulebook that talks about units with armour values. My opponent assumes that the unit type "bike" is included with the term vehicle.

EDIT: I should add that terrain piece was a slightly evelated piece of solid, flat landing pad. When my opponent entered it, I asked if he should be rolling for DT to "climb up" it and he said "No" it wasn't difficult to enter. This was his turn immediately prior to my bikes entering.

At the critical turning moment of the game, my bikes intend to enter this terrain piece and he tells me that we had agreed that vehicles could not enter. I told him that bikes aren't "vehicles" as defined in the rules. I offered to either 4+ for how it would work or to call over a judge to get a ruling on what is meant by "vehicle" in 40K. We went with the former, and I rolled a 6, had my way, and won the game handily.

Things didn't get ugly between us at the game table or afterward, but it was the topic of discussion at our various lunch tables. My compatriots felt I was in the right... but I am sure my opponent's buddies felt the same. I guess what bugs me is that we "did the right thing" by discussing terrain right off the bat, but we still experienced a serious communication failure, that resulted in what can't help but be a experience-spoiling result for my opponent. Of course, had the d6 roll gone the other way, I would have been the one left scrambling.

Cheers,
Nate

FLGS tournament, I'm running an Epi/close combat/Tally list. Make it to the last round, other guy is a SUPER nice guy with a Nid/big bug horde. Rushes his terms, I get tally...then watch as my Nurglings proceed to eat every big bug he has in his army. I try to not demolish his list but you simply 'cannot' charge when something moves in front of you and is in obvious charge range. Given the look on his face and how nice the dude was, probably the worst thing I've ever done in a tournament. Felt bad man.

AgeOfEgos wrote:FLGS tournament, I'm running an Epi/close combat/Tally list. Make it to the last round, other guy is a SUPER nice guy with a Nid/big bug horde. Rushes his terms, I get tally...then watch as my Nurglings proceed to eat every big bug he has in his army. I try to not demolish his list but you simply 'cannot' charge when something moves in front of you and is in obvious charge range. Given the look on his face and how nice the dude was, probably the worst thing I've ever done in a tournament. Felt bad man.

Along those lines... I tabled a necron player back in 3rd ed before he even got a turn...

It was escalation... and I ran speed freaks.

He bunched his necron warriors up...

Turn 1, my looted leman russ rolls on, hits all of them one shot... they almost all die, he fails his check falls of the table.... phases out then and there....

We played the rest of the game out after that for fun...

that he actually picked up my converted Saurus Lord on a Carnosaur which was probably the best model I've ever painted. Threw it on the ground and stomped on it

I find these kind of posts so hard to believe, do people like this actually exist? Have they not been weeded out by evolution by now? Also, the sanctions these alleged people have gotten afterwards are usually very light. Nobody thought about making him pay for damages (including paint-time) and just keep his army as hostage if he didn't comply? Why did people stop you when you beat him? I just can't see this kind of behavior getting off that easy in any tournament I've attended.

No offence but wether you find it hard to believe or not it still happened, despite evolution (which has nothing to do with the immaturity or mind set of some players). Considering that there is no legal way you can "hold someones army hostage" and I didn't want to involve the cops over a single broken miniature which was the only way he could have been forced to pay for damages. Plus I'm not sure why you're asking why they woulden't just sit back and let me beat the crap out of some guy who most likely would have called the cops and then I would have been the bad guy. Just because it woulden't happen or be handeled the same way at any tourney you have been to dosen't mean it woulden't happen at all or that every tourney would handle it the same way.

Such behaviour will get you in trouble with the police, they see it as "assault" regardless if the other person "broke your toy", which is probably how they will see it. Other people holding you back from physically hurting someone are doing you a favour.

I know of one event where some guy wasn't happy that he didn't win one of the painting classes. He loudly voiced his dissatisfaction quite a bit and when the winner went up to get his award it turned into actual booing. You really don't expect these things at model shows, they're usually very quiet events. Unfortunately the winner's son was standing behind this git and belted him. End result was that *he* was then in trouble with the police, doubt anything really came of it though.

One of my mum's friends was involved in some gaming group or local meeting (not a proper tournament) where a kid lost a game, flew into a rage and kicked the table over with both his and his opponent's models. I guess your case proves that some people just don't grow up.

I played a two day tournament the other weekend.
Day One goes pretty well, we all win some lose some. have a pretty good time.
Day two, two more players show up, friends of the TO, and get shuffled right in because they didn't "know that the first two rounds happened the day before".
So I grumble but go along with it anyway, I was informed later that one of them couldn't make it the day before because he shattered his wrist, but then the TO steps in and starts playing games.
None of us are experienced players and generally had basic fun lists.
The TO on the other hand is playing a WAAC Mechdar melta spam list. He ends up taking first and best painted. I told the store owner the following week and she was appaled.

sorry for the rant. Had to get that off my chest.

I'm too nice during tournament events. I'm always the guy that's like "You forgot to shoot with that? No problem go ahead and do it now".

Deathwolf wrote:I'm too nice during tournament events. I'm always the guy that's like "You forgot to shoot with that? No problem go ahead and do it now".

That's me too... Now this didn't happen to me, but a friend of mine:

He was playing a game while a magic thing was going on at the same time, and one of the magic players broke his fantasy dragon that he did beautifully...

Later on that day the magic player was bragging about this extremely rare powerful card he got and my friend asked to see it and shredded it...

he he he shreddy!
worst for me is forgeting my INQ lord on my first ever tourney 600 points couldnt play

also my friend played a newbie who thought falling back was scatter dice....... he just let him do it because he was very new looked last min invite to it

fun school leagues..

I find some gamers to be really arrogant, maybe that's just me.

The worst thing that happened to me (though not strictly at a tournament, but rather a day of gaming) was having the whole shop laugh in my face for playing dark eldar with the old codex. I felt humiliated and like my intelligence was insulted. I reaped my vengeance when I tabled three of the five armies before the 5th turns. Drew with one and lost only one game.

never under estimate the guy with the Deldar. You can win with anything... If you know how.

Well maybe not the worst but certainly one of the most memorable....

Dice down the pants

muwhe wrote:

Well maybe not the worst but certainly one of the most memorable....

Dice down the pants

Like, he put his dice down your pants? Is that gamer euphemism....? I'm disconcerted yet strangely drawn in.

More like he took my cube of dice, and dumped them down his pants.

It was after some outstanding rolling on my part, and some less favorable dice rolls on his end that he mistakenly believed soiling my dice would turn the tide of the game to his favor by throwing me off my game, cooling off my dice, etc..

The day was still mine.

A friend of mine witnessed a player lift up his t-shirt and blow his nose into the middle of it during a GT. I was there but didn't see it myself.

I've heard many stories of models thrown across the room and temper tantrums, but never experienced anything like that...at all actually.
Worst I've dealt with is awkwardly playing against that guy who's really competitive but is also trying a little too hard to make sure he gets a good sportsmanship score.

This one I think everyone has had issues with this in one time or another.

The Non Bather. One -who- has never placed a tooth brush in his mouth. One -who- delves in the game to the point of a being an over bearing rules freak. His whole life revolves around 40K and Cheetoes (as well as other assorted types of junk food). Aerobic bacteria thrives around him. The type of guy that can make Nurgle proud.


I met a man like that in play. I was able to -taste- that lingering Funk that was on his person when he was four feet away.

People like that should not be allowed to play in a congested area.

More a gah, how dumb am i..

I had an unpainted Vindicare assassin in with my painted inquisition force at a tourney, and put him in a great sniping position via infiltrate, where he could see just about everything on the board..

so what do i do? I forget that he's there, for the whole battle.. Not only thst but the next guys to get the table bring him over to me to ask if he's mine and i almost say no..

In my defense he was only bought that morning to add into my tourney list.

Next battle i do the same thing. I post him at the corner of the field, next to the graveyard off table, then due to the angle i keep thinking he's just another casualty..

I remember just in time to shoot the last member of a fire warrior squad, scraping me victory barely with seconds to go...

Third battle i put him somewhere prominent that i can't miss (in a steeple thats almost at eye level when you bend to measure. I'm thinking over and over to REMEMBER THE SNIPER!. I get one shot off, missing, then he gets pulverised by a Leman Russ ;0) Ah well....

Death Walker 2015 wrote:

Deathwolf wrote:I'm too nice during tournament events. I'm always the guy that's like "You forgot to shoot with that? No problem go ahead and do it now".

That's me too... Now this didn't happen to me, but a friend of mine:

He was playing a game while a magic thing was going on at the same time, and one of the magic players broke his fantasy dragon that he did beautifully...

Later on that day the magic player was bragging about this extremely rare powerful card he got and my friend asked to see it and shredded it...

And then laughed, and offered to pay for it if he paid for the dragon, proving that everyone there was a real adult? Because otherwise, you've just described the actions of my 4 and 2 year old daughters. 'She broke my toy so I'm breaking hers!' Worse, with a little skill you can fix most Games Workshop models. I've yet to find one I can't, assuming I can get the pieces together. A shredded card, some of which go for more than a Land Raider, is worthless even if you could tape it together since the cards marked.

And, of course, breaking something by accident clearly means that you are now completely justified in destroying someones else possesions. The next time some steps on my toes and scuffs my boot, I'm heading round there house to put out a few windows and paint hatred on there door. Because I am clearly justified! Even if the guy was a prick about breaking the model, which I've seen before, refusing to appologise let alone pay for damages and such, destroying his card wasn't going to magically repair the dragon, and was therefore pointless. It was just a petty, childish thing to do.



As for the worst thing I've run into, it was a very wierd tournament organized by a GW worker where each game allowed you a special power. You agreed points with your opponent, then played. Winner got a point and the one with the most points over the weekend got a Battle Force. And dear lord, was that battle force made of solid gold. I had three games. Game two was great, awesome opponent, we had a huge laugh as my commander with a meltabomb tried to gank his armless dread and both kept bounching off each other. Good fun.

Game 1 was a kid playing Tyranids. At 300 points, which I barely managed with Marines. He had Without Number on all his units, which he inisisted meant the Warrior Brood he'd split up (illegally) to lead each squad came back too, and that none of them counted as having died for kill points. Oi. I won fairly easily after several of the stores older players explained that no, it didn't work like that. Afterwards he wandered arround the store, yodelling that he had really won and that it wasn't fair until I told him to go tell the store guy it was a win, if he really needed it that badly.

Game 3 was against a slightly mad Ultramarines player. He had a Deathstar of ten terminators, a Captain, Marneus Calgar and a Chaplain. Yes, three HQ choices. When I pointed this out he started looking shifty, but I shrugged and let him go for it. I wasn't that fussed. Now, we both got a special ability. We could take over a single unit for a single turn. If that unit charged another unit it reamained there until combat ended, then reverted. On his first turn, in his shooting phase, he decides to take over my vindicator, turn it around and blow up a unit. Fine and dandy. He forgot to move in the movement phase, but what the hell. Then I get my turn. My plan was simple...take control of Calgar, have him attack his own unit, bog it down while my own Assault Terminators and Dreadnaught reached it. Oh no, I can't take control of Calgar. He's a special character who is immune! Oh no, that's not working? Fine, you missed your chance to use that power because it's your movement phase. What, I did it in the shooting phase, along with moving then? But now I remember the rules and we must follow them EXACTLY!

I held up my hands and packed up, despite the constant yelling that I should keep going. From him. Apparently he twigged too late that he was being a tool, and since half the shop was watching he wasn't likely to get many a game in after that. The only reason I was even at the tournament was that it gave me a chance to get a ton of games in. If two thirds were gonna be against people so desperate for a battleforce, they could fight among themselves. I'm not a tournament player in the slightest, I simply don't have the dedication and drive it requires, so I didn't care much about winning. It's always nice, but certainly not enough to start winding my opponent up.

Foda_Bett wrote:Probably the Last Waaagh indy GT. First off I ordered a shirt and they weren't there at the event. I thought this wouldn't be a problem but it turns out it was (read the end).
I'm having a great tourney until round 5. I walk up and my opponent is playing with his dice and acting really funny. I explain that since we're so low on the totem pole we might as well play for fun and he agrees. What follows was the oddest game of my life.
The entire game he's constantly shuffling through his dice, instead of talking having a good time or looking up at the field he's playing with his dice. I'm also noticing that EVERY time he needs to roll one die for something he passes it. 1 cover save, 1 penetrating hit, 1 lascannon, it doesn't matter if it only rolls 1 die he gets it. He rolls the die really fast and even after a couple of requests to slow down a bit he doesn't.
So the game is wrapping up and I look down and say "Hey wait I thought those symbols on your dice were 6's, why does that die also have a 6?" He responds with "Oh yeah, I meant to find that one before the game started but I didn't have time."
I go to the TO and he says that since it was only 1 die it really didn't matter.
Now 2 years later I still don't have my shirt or a refund.

I know the player you speak of and I am happy I did not order a shirt! I wonder why it was the last waaagh.... :p

I've had one or two grumpy players, bitchy players or people whom tried to bend the rules... Most time (90%) if you call them out on it they'll quickly correct the issue. No huge foul tournament experiences.

Adam LongWalker wrote:The Non Bather.

This was my second worst experience... The worst I will not dredge from my memory where I hid it never to be looked back upon again!

I was at a major tournament, against a player I never had to face before. As the game started, I noticed, shall we say, a unpleasent odor wafting across the table. Wrinkling my nose, i continued on. Oh, but it got worse! As the game continued, It got bad.. I mean it began to REEK! My eyes started to litteraly water, and I had to repress a gag. I have never before smelled anything so bad, and i have two kids who at times I was changing the diapers! I had to stumble back from the table, and stand a decent way back. I am sure my opponent assumed I was stepping back for a more tactical look at the models, terrain or something, but in fact it was a desperate attempt to suck in some untainted air and to get my eyes to quit watering.

I decided at turn 2 that none of my models were going to his side of the table, as the thought of leaning CLOSER to the putrid stench was laughable.
Funnily enough, the guy was pleasent and polite, but for the love of god, dogs would have run yelping away from this guy...

Upon tallying objectives the guy flipped and claimed I'd cheated and moved the unit closer, and that there was no way I could of contested. I informed him I hadnt, and that if I wanted to I still had the run move I didnt even use. He then went on a tirade about how I was no fun to play, Id been pulling crap all game, etc etc. During his final tirade, I started to say "You know what, you've...(and then caught myself) and said "nevermind..it's not worth it, lets just tally this up and be done with it." He refused to score the game and just kept saying "whatever, take max points, I dont give an f'ing shXX".

Some people have a level of patience that I could not hope to match...

Fists of the emperor wrote:I heard about this the other day, a guy at our local store has an all bike army, his opponent reserves everything, first turn turbo boost, second turn spreading every bike out in his opponents deployment zone preventing him from coming on the board thus winning the game.

LMAO

Dude got pissed at his own rolls and chucked his hammerhead acrossss the room. We no joke now make him draw true Los from the railgun barrel, which is bent pointing @ the ceiling.

I remember once this dude threw his plastic dread against the cinder block wall - caught it on the bounce and threw it again!

MVBrandt wrote:Dude got pissed at his own rolls and chucked his hammerhead acrossss the room. We no joke now make him draw true Los from the railgun barrel, which is bent pointing @ the ceiling.

That's great

Was playing Ard Boyz in round 1 and was crushing the guy and me and him are suppose to be cool known him for a while. I let him fix small mistakes and rules we didn't relise like he found out he couldn't target a certian unit with JOTWW I told him he could repick honest mistake and in the rules you can do that. Well turn 6 comes around and I"m 6 models from tabling him 1 is a rune priest on the other side of the board. I roll up with my Redeemer to finish off the Long fangs on the building I shoot them with a cannon to finish it and he tells me i can't shoot there too high on building (which is true) so I'm like kay well ill shoot something else or target the single guy with my assault cannon but he REFUSES and gets all pissy like i'd killed his children to think I could do this this gives him another turn of shooting and kills my troops off my point so the game ends in a tie with him the turn after only having 1 model left. I'll see if im ever nice in a tourney again to anyone.

bloodaxegit wrote:Say this: "I dont want to play as an evil army any more, my CSM won't be ready in time ."
Me:"Use your IG as traitor guard"
" OK, I will "

Corrected that for you. As for the worst thing someone's ever done to me, there was one guy who said his Swooping Hawks were T4 and that's all I can remember at the moment.

1000pt Doubles Tourney at my FLGS, you could do a 1000pt army between the pair or 2 500pt ones. Won Game 1 hands down, only casualties being 4 Ratlings and a lone Guardsmen. Anywho, Game 2 is a draw, Game 3 rolls around and we're facing a Nid 2-0-0 team. Me and friend are 1-1-0 so if we win this, we win tournament (and get a free box of models ). Standard Nid tactics with the players rushing towards us. Anyway, we decide to knock out the ONE unit of Warriors they brought, the crux of their Synapse bubble (their only bubble)

Two Basilisks and one Russ later, all 3 Warriors (can't remember, may have been more) lie dead, me and friend grinning at prospect of facing an army without Synapse, except for the Carnifex on the flank who blah blah blah

Their turn starts, they move their models really quickly. Following conversation:

Friend-"What about the Ld tests?"
Opponent-"What tests?"
F-"Y'know, Synapse tests?"
Almost comedically they look at each other then back to us
O-"We thought that was optional"

For the next ten minutes we explained how the Synapse rules work, how, where, even why. They refuse to listen to us after we finish and say we should keep playing. Friend asks to see codex, they refuse, so we get one from a shelf, and show them. They get angry, involve the manager and an argument ensues (Me and Friend were being yelled at a bit, but could have been worse). The manager raises his voice and they both shut up and pack up their models before leaving the store. Nice waste of my time. Game counted as invalid or something so we came 2nd

pretre wrote:

LegendJRG wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:In a purely academic sense then yes, you are correct. It is impossible for a charge to occur with in the open infiltration on turn 1. However, on the table top, I still hold that I fulfillthe more than 18" away requirement by standing right behind the line, and if I measure out a 6" move, with a 6" fleet, followed by a 6" charge, I can get into b2b contact, given that the .01 inches will almost certainly be lost, or be tossed aside as insignifcant as far as the game goes.

Ehhh I have used it in 1000 point games with cc scouts, infiltrate 18 away followed by a scout move than, all dependent on going first of course, move fleet assault. I do run Shrike though this is still technically impossible with non-fleeting scouts as you should be 18.01 inches away at least thats how I interpret it.

Infiltrate, scout (no closer than 12.01), move, fleet, assault is legal. You're right that Infiltrate (18.01 or 12.01), move, assault is illegal and not even likely for scouts.

I run shrike with Korvydae and vanguard veterans. Infiltrate to 18", jump to 6", fleet to 5" (min.), assault to the rest. That's 5 hit & running, furious charging, jump-pack-armed, multiple-attacking, thunder-hammer-wielding marines, backed up by a hit & running, furious charging, jump-pack-armed, multiple-attacking, thunder-hammer-wielding special character, and a hit & running, furious charging, jump-pack-armed, multiple-attacking, re-roll hitting & wounding, rending, lightning-claw-wielding captain. Overkill.
I've never been in a tourney, but at GD '09 I had a kid his shadowsword could transport 40 men...a little confusion there...and relentlessly insist that it could, even when multiple staff, gamers and rulebooks told him otherwise. He went off in a huff to play another game.

WhiteBishop wrote:Game counted as invalid or something so we come 2nd.

OMG, this would've pissed me off so much....

Death Walker 2015 wrote:He was playing a game while a magic thing was going on at the same time, and one of the magic players broke his fantasy dragon that he did beautifully...

Later on that day the magic player was bragging about this extremely rare powerful card he got and my friend asked to see it and shredded it...

Dude, it was an accident...

InventionThirteen wrote:I find some gamers to be really arrogant, maybe that's just me.

The worst thing that happened to me (though not strictly at a tournament, but rather a day of gaming) was having the whole shop laugh in my face for playing dark eldar with the old codex. I felt humiliated and like my intelligence was insulted. I reaped my vengeance when I tabled three of the five armies before the 5th turns. Drew with one and lost only one game.

never under estimate the guy with the Deldar. You can win with anything... If you know how.

was it like "HAH let's all laugh at that dumb little idiot!", or like "HAH he's using the old codex...you know the new one came out a couple days ago, right? *chuckle*, continue.

Adam LongWalker wrote:This one I think everyone has had issues with this in one time or another.

The Non Bather. One -who- has never placed a tooth brush in his mouth. One -who- delves in the game to the point of a being an over bearing rules freak. His whole life revolves around 40K and Cheetoes (as well as other assorted types of junk food). Aerobic bacteria thrives around him. The type of guy that can make Nurgle proud.

^ there's a TFG at my store like that. He is immune to the prospect of personal hygiene, cheesy armies, and the fact that most of us just nod at his constant babble about how unit X is better than unit Y.

First game of my first tourny after learning how to play 40k back in '06. I was cheated by TFG.

Only consolation was that nearly everyone in the store knew him as a cheat, and although his Nids got through to the final, he was tabled by a pure GK list.

Avatar 720 wrote:First game of my first tourny after learning how to play 40k back in '06. I was cheated by TFG.

Only consolation was that nearly everyone in the store knew him as a cheat, and although his Nids got through to the final, he was tabled by a pure GK list.

how did he cheat you?

Aduro wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Quitting on turn 2.

This being like round 3, both of us where not in contention of winning the tournament. He said he wanted to play it out just for fun. He quit on turn two not because it was one sided but because "he changed his mind and the game didn't really matter."

Great, thank you for wasting an hour of my life.

Had a guy quit top of turn 1 on the first round of a tournament against me once. Back in maybe 4th ed, he deployed a Tau gunline all the way forward on his 12" deployment zone line, directly opposite my Hormagaunts who were deployed the full 12" up on their line. Rolled a 6 for Fleet and got a first turn charge on his Fire Warriors. He promptly forfeit. Didn't roll out the combat or anything.

It was Tau. Sounds like a valid time to throw in the towell. However, his bad for EVER deploying forward with Tau.

Unfortunately, I can very often be TFG. I get huffy when my plans fail (through dice rolling, not because i'm an idiot. When i'm the idiot, I usually just roll with it. though, I have been known to get frustrated with my opponant fails to see the gaping holes that i've left that would win them the game) and rant about the short comings of my strategy or dice rolling. I don't throw my figs, but i do heap them. I don't throw my dice (inside the store) but after one spectacularly bad run of luck (Rapid Firing plasma, I hit on twos. Snake eyes. Twin linked? Snake eyes. Next model: snake eyes. Twin linked? Snake eyes. Third model...) I looked my opponant in the eyes, forced a smile, and said "Excuse me." I walked out of the store, threw those dice across the parkinglot, then returned. "So," I began with a grin. "Would you like to continue raping me with the help of my dice?"

When i catch myself I TRY to make it funny. At one point watching my whole army rout I got really frustrated, then looked at my opponant and used my best Skeletor voice, "I'll get you next time, He-Man!"

On the other side of things, I enjoy having debriefings after games. I usually point out where my plans worked and what was just plain luck. It changes my attitude alot I've noticed in recent games to simply imagine warriors slipping on bloodsplattered ground or getting a bug in their mouth to explain away a series of botches. Describing such things helps the narrative of the game, as well.

So in summation, to the opponants to whom I've been overly coarse or brash: Sorry. I'm loud.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Such behaviour will get you in trouble with the police, they see it as "assault" regardless if the other person "broke your toy", which is probably how they will see it. Other people holding you back from physically hurting someone are doing you a favour.

I know of one event where some guy wasn't happy that he didn't win one of the painting classes. He loudly voiced his dissatisfaction quite a bit and when the winner went up to get his award it turned into actual booing. You really don't expect these things at model shows, they're usually very quiet events. Unfortunately the winner's son was standing behind this git and belted him. End result was that *he* was then in trouble with the police, doubt anything really came of it though.

One of my mum's friends was involved in some gaming group or local meeting (not a proper tournament) where a kid lost a game, flew into a rage and kicked the table over with both his and his opponent's models. I guess your case proves that some people just don't grow up.

The use of force is generally acceptable when protecting property.

shrike wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:First game of my first tourny after learning how to play 40k back in '06. I was cheated by TFG.

Only consolation was that nearly everyone in the store knew him as a cheat, and although his Nids got through to the final, he was tabled by a pure GK list.

how did he cheat you?

By killing off my terminators + terminator lord through tactically telling me to go and fetch things needed to measure the distance from his Carnifex whilst he tactically shifted the models closer. First was a tape measure and he found out that he hadn't moved the models close enough (I could tell he'd moved them because the heavy flamer i'd placed facing the genestealers next to the fex was now pointing at the fex instead), the second time was fetching the TO (or GW employee in this case) which gave him enough time to move 3/5 termies and the lord close enough to have mishapped and died. The remaining termies (heavy flamer and combi-flamer killed 3 genestealers and then died to the fex i'd planned to powerfist down).

He was a veteran though, and I, being about 5 years younger than him and just another newb to most of the other vets, decided it was best to back down and not look stupid by pointing the finger and having it laughed away using the "i'm-a-veteran-and-you've-barely-started-playing-lol-noob" card.

Worst time I ever had at a tournament, would definitely be when not my opponent gave me a hard time but when TFG decided to lean over towards my opponent and say "this is the last turn you should move your razorbacks up and contest those objectives." As my opponent had almost begun his shooting phase and said "thanks for reminding me."

This angered me to no end as i was playing tyranids as my army was cc based and all my units were trying to deal with a dread and several wolfguard terminators. I ended up losing that game by the objectives he contested.

Avatar 720 wrote:
By killing off my terminators + terminator lord through tactically telling me to go and fetch things needed to measure the distance from his Carnifex whilst he tactically shifted the models closer.

I do not think that word thinks what you think it means.

pretre wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:
By killing off my terminators + terminator lord through tactically telling me to go and fetch things needed to measure the distance from his Carnifex whilst he tactically shifted the models closer.

I do not think that word thinks what you think it means.

That doesn't really make sense...

And yes I know what 'tactically' means, I was being sarcastic.

Avatar 720 wrote:

pretre wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:
By killing off my terminators + terminator lord through tactically telling me to go and fetch things needed to measure the distance from his Carnifex whilst he tactically shifted the models closer.

I do not think that word thinks what you think it means.

That doesn't really make sense...

And yes I know what 'tactically' means, I was being sarcastic.

Lol Served myself. " I do not think that word means what you think it means" is what I meant to say. Which makes it much more funny.

Princess Bride FTW.

There was a player at one of the stores I used to go to, before i moved stateside, that would do this. He was a master of the accidental nudge and the 'oh wait, i think i'll move them over here instead' distance adding technique.

What was ironic was that everyone in the store could beat hi anyway, down to the store cat and the guy who just bought his first starterbox and wound up with this guy as his first opponent.

We all knew he cheated, and we called him on it from time to time, but frankly he needed the help

We made sure to point out to any newbies that what he was doing was wrong, to make sure they didn't go the same way, but I don't think he ever took the hint. His win/loss record was something like 0/42 when i left the area

'It's cruel to mock the afflicted'

Nagashek wrote:[I get huffy when my plans fail (through dice rolling, not because i'm an idiot. When i'm the idiot, I usually just roll with it.
I tend to laugh when that happens. It hleps laughing at that stuff.

On the other side of things, I enjoy having debriefings after games. I usually point out where my plans worked and what was just plain luck.
I do that, as well as point out where the loser (me or them) went wrong, as well as our "man/xenos of the battle."
It changes my attitude alot I've noticed in recent games to simply imagine warriors slipping on bloodsplattered ground or getting a bug in their mouth to explain away a series of botches. Describing such things helps the narrative of the game, as well.
like that. I laugh, then say, for example, if lysander fails dangerous terrain and dies, that the emperor has a sick sense of humour, and that he mystically changed his thunder hammer for a squeaky plastic one, so he went home and cried about it, or he saw a butterfly and chased after it. I had one game where the long-running joke was the IG were tring to kill marines with torches, and they had eppileptic fits, because the IG player fails at everything. He lost his CCS in combat with fire warriors.

Taoofss wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Such behaviour will get you in trouble with the police, they see it as "assault" regardless if the other person "broke your toy", which is probably how they will see it. Other people holding you back from physically hurting someone are doing you a favour.

I know of one event where some guy wasn't happy that he didn't win one of the painting classes. He loudly voiced his dissatisfaction quite a bit and when the winner went up to get his award it turned into actual booing. You really don't expect these things at model shows, they're usually very quiet events. Unfortunately the winner's son was standing behind this git and belted him. End result was that *he* was then in trouble with the police, doubt anything really came of it though.

One of my mum's friends was involved in some gaming group or local meeting (not a proper tournament) where a kid lost a game, flew into a rage and kicked the table over with both his and his opponent's models. I guess your case proves that some people just don't grow up.

The use of force is generally acceptable when protecting property.

After the fact would only work against theft. In the case of destruction it would have to be during the act, at least in Texas. After the fact, you are not justified.

12thRonin wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:Such behaviour will get you in trouble with the police, they see it as "assault" regardless if the other person "broke your toy", which is probably how they will see it. Other people holding you back from physically hurting someone are doing you a favour.

I know of one event where some guy wasn't happy that he didn't win one of the painting classes. He loudly voiced his dissatisfaction quite a bit and when the winner went up to get his award it turned into actual booing. You really don't expect these things at model shows, they're usually very quiet events. Unfortunately the winner's son was standing behind this git and belted him. End result was that *he* was then in trouble with the police, doubt anything really came of it though.

One of my mum's friends was involved in some gaming group or local meeting (not a proper tournament) where a kid lost a game, flew into a rage and kicked the table over with both his and his opponent's models. I guess your case proves that some people just don't grow up.

The use of force is generally acceptable when protecting property.

After the fact would only work against theft. In the case of destruction it would have to be during the act, at least in Texas. After the fact, you are not justified.

In this case (somewhere around page 3 or 4) it was during the act. Guy said he decked his opponent while he was still jumping on his model.

Avatar 720 wrote:

shrike wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:First game of my first tourny after learning how to play 40k back in '06. I was cheated by TFG.

Only consolation was that nearly everyone in the store knew him as a cheat, and although his Nids got through to the final, he was tabled by a pure GK list.

how did he cheat you?

By killing off my terminators + terminator lord through tactically telling me to go and fetch things needed to measure the distance from his Carnifex whilst he tactically shifted the models closer. First was a tape measure and he found out that he hadn't moved the models close enough (I could tell he'd moved them because the heavy flamer i'd placed facing the genestealers next to the fex was now pointing at the fex instead), the second time was fetching the TO (or GW employee in this case) which gave him enough time to move 3/5 termies and the lord close enough to have mishapped and died. The remaining termies (heavy flamer and combi-flamer killed 3 genestealers and then died to the fex i'd planned to powerfist down).

He was a veteran though, and I, being about 5 years younger than him and just another newb to most of the other vets, decided it was best to back down and not look stupid by pointing the finger and having it laughed away using the "i'm-a-veteran-and-you've-barely-started-playing-lol-noob" card.

and how does this make you feel?
that's low, a pro needing to resort to cheating against a newbie...

Worst thing that happened to me was during a casual game in a FLGS and it was NOT my opponent who did it to me.

In the middle of the game one of the other guys in the store approached our table and picked up my defiler (fully painted) without asking, and before any of us could intervene he breaks off one of its claws with the comment "Oh thats a nice model, are those ball joints movable?"...

Needless to say I was pretty angry - the guy was then thrown out by the store owner and we interrupted our game to repair that defiler (luckily it could be glued back together cleanly).

Taoofss wrote:

12thRonin wrote:

Taoofss wrote:
The use of force is generally acceptable when protecting property.

After the fact would only work against theft. In the case of destruction it would have to be during the act, at least in Texas. After the fact, you are not justified.

In this case (somewhere around page 3 or 4) it was during the act. Guy said he decked his opponent while he was still jumping on his model.

Too many people believe that force and deadly force can be used in all instances and cases to protect property when that is not true and the odds are likely that you will still be arrested and charged. Plus regardless of if you are in the right or not, are the costs of the ride and the rap of misdemeanor or felony assault or attempted murder worth more or less than that model?

12thRonin wrote:
Too many people believe that force and deadly force can be used in all instances and cases to protect property when that is not true and the odds are likely that you will still be arrested and charged. Plus regardless of if you are in the right or not, are the costs of the ride and the rap of misdemeanor or felony assault or attempted murder worth more or less than that model?

The trick is for it to be restrained force directly proportional to what the other guy does. As long as you're reactionary and you have witnesses to back you up, its not likely you'll be charged. Even if they do charge you, it only because they'll just want to scare you or convince you to plead down to something so small its not worth your time to fight... like disorderly conduct.

aka_mythos wrote:

12thRonin wrote:
Too many people believe that force and deadly force can be used in all instances and cases to protect property when that is not true and the odds are likely that you will still be arrested and charged. Plus regardless of if you are in the right or not, are the costs of the ride and the rap of misdemeanor or felony assault or attempted murder worth more or less than that model?

The trick is for it to be restrained force directly proportional to what the other guy does. As long as you're reactionary and you have witnesses to back you up, its not likely you'll be charged. Even if they do charge you, it only because they'll just want to scare you or convince you to plead down to something so small its not worth your time to fight... like disorderly conduct.

Criminal charges are going to follow you around for years - every employer who interviews you is going to turn those up in a quick internet search, and you don't want to be explaining that you punched some guy for breaking your toy soldiers.

You're jumping to the most extreme of situations as prosecuted by an overzealous prosecuter.

Like I said, if you're playing at place where you have friends hopefully they'll back you up when talking to the police. If none are willing to back you up with the police your friends are probably not friendly enough to want to play with. If you seriously think you're going to get convicted when several witnesses and likely the owner say the other guy was at fault, you're living in a terrible place. Unless everyone in your store is a duche-bag you're not going to get a successful prosectution for a misdemeanor when multiple people with presumably clean slates back you up and inform the police the other guys instigated the incident and was at fault. Using moderate proportional force, and by that I mean nothing that requires a hosptial visit... by that I mean taking back your model... by that I mean blocking his departure if he's trying to walk off with your property or siezing his hand when he tries to break something... no punching, no kicking, etc... if he acts violently than you have witnesses... the most that might happen to you would be disorderly conduct. In most states disordely conduct is only a "Violation" and is not actionable by employers... treated the same as a speeding ticket.

If you seriously believe what you say, you live in a self induced state of persecution or should seriously question why you're living in any town that would be so authoritarian.

aka_mythos wrote:You're jumping to the most extreme of situations as prosecuted by an overzealous prosecuted.

aka_mythos wrote: Even if they do charge you, it only because they'll just want to scare you or convince you to plead down to something so small its not worth your time to fight... like disorderly conduct.

I'm jumping to the most extreme of situations?

Understand, too, that we all have somewhat different perspectives on such situations. I'm a lawyer, and I know that if I were attacked, I would press charges to the greatest extent I could push forward; I assume others would do the same.

Reality check time, though - toy soldiers aren't worth getting into physical altercations over. There is no "proportional" physical response to someone breaking one.

In a lot of cities, getting the prosecuter to go after a misdemeanor is easier than a small time felony. In ohio big boy felonies are handled at the county level, while misdemeanors can be prosecuted by the city.

If that doesn't work, you can always file in small claims court.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Janthkin wrote:
Reality check time, though - toy soldiers aren't worth getting into physical altercations over. There is no "proportional" physical response to someone breaking one.

Yeah, few (if any) states still allow Defense of Property as an affirmative defense.

As I don't live in the US I don't know what is considered a socially acceptable reaction to that situation.

But I do know that there exists varying degrees of physical response to such a situation.
A firm arm/shirt grab or a light shove (taking care of surroundings) might also have stopped the offending action.

Punching is IMO a serious over-reaction and I assume (not being a lawyer, and living under a different legal system) must contain a higher probability of legal ramifications.

PS. For the curious I live in Denmark where we don't allow guns in the hands of civilians (beyond hunting/sports) and civil lawsuits are basically unheard of.

Honestly situations like that are generally resolved with the person in question being banned from the store, or the victim never returning to a place that condones that sort of behavior.

It also wouldn't be uncommon for a store owner to ease the situation by providing a new model, or hobby supplies, or somehow helping out the victim.

I live in Texas where there are very liberal laws as to what you can and cannot do in terms of self defense and defense of property. Even if you are in the clear from a legal standpoint, you still can be charged if the DA wants to push it. Assault over a $50 model would be one that would likely get attention due to the absurdity of it. It would stand out that if this person is emotionally immature enough to resort to violence in this case, what else would they do in cases of stress? It doesn't matter what you think or believe, it matters what the prosecutor says and your defense attorney says and if the 12 people on the jury believe it. You're likely to not get much sympathy.

There is no such thing either as modest or proportional. It's either justified use of force or it is not, regardless of if it is deadly force. Use of force can intentionally or unintentionally become deadly force very quickly.

So here's a very real scenario: This guy breaks your model and jumps up and down on it. You punch him in the head while doing so, knocking him off balance. He falls and hits his head on the edge of a table splitting his skull open or bounces off the concrete which causes him to fracture his skull and hemorrhage. You have just killed a person over a $50 model. You may or may not be charged with murder or manslaughter. Plus you live the rest of your life with the fact you killed someone. Is it worth it?

And before you say this is an extreme example, situations where punches to the head being killing blows are very, very common.

Janthkin wrote:Understand, too, that we all have somewhat different perspectives on such situations. I'm a lawyer, and I know that if I were attacked, I would press charges to the greatest extent I could push forward; I assume others would do the same.

Thats what I mean by an "extreme of situations"... you can use force without harming a person. I was even explicit in it being mostly passive force upto the point where he commits the first violent action. I never said to attack the offending person, I was explicit about not attacking them. There is some reasonable amount of force that is acceptable to preventing the commission of a crime, the damage to ones property. Any opinion outside of that are merely the legal dilusion of the realities of right and wrong.

Janthkin wrote:Reality check time, though - toy soldiers aren't worth getting into physical altercations over. There is no "proportional" physical response to someone breaking one.

You say that but I've seen someone trash $3000+ worth of models that required many more hours to assemble and prepare... because someone else had a tantrum. There are cars that aren't worth that much that people have defended more vigourously than you prescribe. Just because you do not attribute the same worth as other doesn't mean you should sit back. Quantifiably months of someones time lost, no difference in damage than if the individual who owned them had been wrongfully kept a prisoner by the same individual for that same time. Law is but a bandaid for the circumstances that have transpired because they are inherently passive. Any person with a moral compass would rather be right but "guilty" than unjust and wrong. I know many lawyers and I know most would have enough solidarity and empathy to act to prevent an injustice when possible.


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12thRonin wrote:
There is no such thing either as modest or proportional. It's either justified use of force or it is not, regardless of if it is deadly force. Use of force can intentionally or unintentionally become deadly force very quickly.

So here's a very real scenario: This guy breaks your model and jumps up and down on it. You punch him in the head while doing so, knocking him off balance. He falls and hits his head on the edge of a table splitting his skull open or bounces off the concrete which causes him to fracture his skull and hemorrhage. You have just killed a person over a $50 model. You may or may not be charged with murder or manslaughter. Plus you live the rest of your life with the fact you killed someone. Is it worth it?

In my example no one was able to act to prevent the damage and no punches were thrown but they barred the person from leaving till the police arrived. They forced the criminal to stay, against his will. That is what I would call reasonable. Its only the absolutist who say do nothing, that I have a problem with.

So here's a very real scenario: This guy breaks your model and jumps up and down on it. You punch him in the head while doing so, knocking him off balance. He falls and hits his head on the edge of a table splitting his skull open or bounces off the concrete which causes him to fracture his skull and hemorrhage. You have just killed a person over a $50 model. You may or may not be charged with murder or manslaughter. Plus you live the rest of your life with the fact you killed someone. Is it worth it?

And before you say this is an extreme example, situations where punches to the head being killing blows are very, very common.

And, in the same vein...
Someone's jumping up and down on your model, but you don't move to stop him. He slips on a bit, he falls and hits his head on the edge of a table splitting his skull open or bounces off the concrete which causes him to fracture his skull and hemorrhage.
Suddenly, the guys' dead and you're getting sued by his family because you did nothing, and it was your model he slipped on.

And before you say this is an extreme example, situations where families sue innocent people over things like this are very, very common.

One of my good friends is a personal injury attorney, and he could regale you for hours with stories of what you and I probably would see as stupid people doing stupid things and getting paid because they got hurt doing it and sued (or their family did).

I'm not saying it's LIKELY, but my point is that it happens.

On the subject of physical violence; I think I would probably have a reputation of being one of the more level headed people on here, and I rarely ever get riled up. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do in this situation, though.
If the guy's obviously an adult, my inclination WILL be to wade in swinging. I can only hope my better sense would take over, though. Ten years ago, however, I'd have had nothing stopping me. I know it's what I'd have done.

Not saying it's right. Not saying it's defensible. Just saying that's what I'd have done.

For those of you preaching to others about what they should and should not do, remember that not everyone thinks like you and not everyone was raised like you. At least they're being honest about what their reaction would be. Right or wrong, at least they deserve credit for honesty and introspection.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:
And, in the same vein...
Someone's jumping up and down on your model, but you don't move to stop him. He slips on a bit, he falls and hits his head on the edge of a table splitting his skull open or bounces off the concrete which causes him to fracture his skull and hemorrhage.
Suddenly, the guys' dead and you're getting sued by his family because you did nothing, and it was your model he slipped on.

And before you say this is an extreme example, situations where families sue innocent people over things like this are very, very common.

One of my good friends is a personal injury attorney, and he could regale you for hours with stories of what you and I probably would see as stupid people doing stupid things and getting paid because they got hurt doing it and sued (or their family did).

I'm not saying it's LIKELY, but my point is that it happens.

Showing negligence on their part is easy since their problem is caused by their actions and this isn't a woman being burned because McDonalds had the coffee stored at 185 degrees.. I have no responsibility to prevent someone from hurting themselves. It's not a fair comparison and he didn't slip on it. Good luck proving I'm negligent because you're an idiot. It's also a bad analogy because you go from causing the death of the person to seeing it happen. Huge difference.

Civil tort != criminal by a long shot. I'll take a trip to civil court anytime.

On the subject of physical violence; I think I would probably have a reputation of being one of the more level headed people on here, and I rarely ever get riled up. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do in this situation, though.
If the guy's obviously an adult, my inclination WILL be to wade in swinging. I can only hope my better sense would take over, though. Ten years ago, however, I'd have had nothing stopping me. I know it's what I'd have done.

Not saying it's right. Not saying it's defensible. Just saying that's what I'd have done.

For those of you preaching to others about what they should and should not do, remember that not everyone thinks like you and not everyone was raised like you. At least they're being honest about what their reaction would be. Right or wrong, at least they deserve credit for honesty and introspection.

Eric

No, they don't deserve credit since if they were performing introspection they would realize the same thing you did and go "This is the incorrect response" and change it. Internet tough-guying is just a different form of trying to be a bully. The reaction to immediately go from zero to game time with no attempt to defuse or walk away from the situation is a sign that the person has a maturity problem. Defense of property is not something that should not immediately illicit a violent response. Stuff is stuff and the vast majority of stuff can be replaced. Your life and livelihood is an entirely different case.

That's the other side of this coin. Suppose this guy has the "I'm not going to back down" mentality and beats you to an inch of your life or pulls a knife and gun and sends you on your way to your ultimate reward. Who looks out for your family then?

All over a broken model. Really?

More funny tournament stories?

Yeah, quit arguing so I can read more stories about terrible and stupid people. This is boring. And you are digressing from the point of the topic.

Janthkin wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:You're jumping to the most extreme of situations as prosecuted by an overzealous prosecuted.

aka_mythos wrote: Even if they do charge you, it only because they'll just want to scare you or convince you to plead down to something so small its not worth your time to fight... like disorderly conduct.

I'm jumping to the most extreme of situations?

Understand, too, that we all have somewhat different perspectives on such situations. I'm a lawyer, and I know that if I were attacked, I would press charges to the greatest extent I could push forward; I assume others would do the same.

Reality check time, though - toy soldiers aren't worth getting into physical altercations over. There is no "proportional" physical response to someone breaking one.

Janthkin, your first mistake was attempting to inject a reasonable, well thought out and mature perspective on an internet forum peopled primarily by table-top wargamers.

Your second mistake was in believing that those same wargamers would recognize your perspective as being reasonable, well thought out and mature.

Nerd rage uber alles.

Trust me, he's a lawyer, he's used to it.

For some people, it may be just toys. For others, its hundreds of hours of work, with details so fine, you could argue its art.

I just gotta hate those overpowered lists... Tyranids: nothing to shoot at on turn 1; 1 gun drone not in close combat left when I was allowed to play again. great, loads of fun...
And someone telling me his space wolf scouts could Infiltrate 18 inch from me then scout move, ending up 6 inch with his melta bombs.

But the most irritating ever was one tournament, I didn't know the rules that good yet. First player told me:
'you have to take away those models UNDER the blast marker - in his favor.
second told me absolutely not to - in his favor
third told me to do so again - in his favor -.-

And the worst thing I ever did was tank shock trough a wall, arguing my skimmers flied over it then tank shocked downwards (there was no space for the vehicle between the wall and the models). The vehicle can drop downwards and crush those eldar basterds can't it? Not really cheating, but when he falled back over 9 inches, being JUST out of range of the objective... that's where I felt really bad :p

Taoofss wrote:For some people, it may be just toys. For others, its hundreds of hours of work, with details so fine, you could argue its art.

looking at some of the 'eavy metal team's stuff, like marneus calgar's land raider, or the fortress of arrogance. I think they're art. If someone painted that on paper, it would be.

.Kern. wrote:I just gotta hate those overpowered lists... Tyranids: nothing to shoot at on turn 1; 1 gun drone not in close combat left when I was allowed to play again. great, loads of fun...
And someone telling me his space wolf scouts could Infiltrate 18 inch from me then scout move, ending up 6 inch with his melta bombs.

But the most irritating ever was one tournament, I didn't know the rules that good yet. First player told me:
'you have to take away those models UNDER the blast marker - in his favor.
second told me absolutely not to - in his favor
third told me to do so again - in his favor -.-

And the worst thing I ever did was tank shock trough a wall, arguing my skimmers flied over it then tank shocked downwards (there was no space for the vehicle between the wall and the models). The vehicle can drop downwards and crush those eldar basterds can't it? Not really cheating, but when he falled back over 9 inches, being JUST out of range of the objective... that's where I felt really bad :p

Isn't that move with skimmers legit? I thought one of the main reasons Eldar still did well was their ability to selectively tank shock in a straight line up to 24", skipping over intervening terrain along the way.

It is. His post is a bit challenging to understand.

Not sure how Tyranids arrive on the board and wipe you out on Turn 1... Maybe Turn 2 with outflankers if you park close to the edge.

The SW Scouts thing is pretty legal, although they have to stop at 12.01 no matter what (Infiltrate and Scout move).

As soon as the "GAME" becomes a "Fight" or "argument" - the fun stops at least for me....

Aldonis wrote:As soon as the "GAME" becomes a "Fight" or "argument" - the fun stops at least for me....

Agreed, I can't stand playing a game that consists of an argument phase.

Worst thing done to me: Can't really remember, most of our guys play pretty fair. The only one I can remember was when I let a guy that forgot to shoot his melta gun at my vidicator, so I let him thinking that he would do the same for me if something came up. So he weapon destroys my vindicator and his terminators that had just deepstruck into a lovely pile get to run amok all over my army. Then I overheard him not allowing a newer player the same courtesy in nearly the reverse of the situation. I had no qualms about telling him that it was the last time I would be willing to give him wiggle room.

Worst thing I've done: Wasn't so much illegal as me getting pissy. I was playing a new kid (probably 11-12) and his dice were on fire, example: He was playing orks and put 8 of my 9 raiders and ravagers in the dirt with big shootas and lootas. He got a little cocky and was proclaiming how awesome orks were in that horrible accent that ork players tend to emulate. I then slammed my archon, dracon, and my entire reaver squadron into his nob biker squad, when the smoke cleared they were gone and I was in his flank. I tabled him the next round

LucasLAD wrote:Worst thing I've done: Wasn't so much illegal as me getting pissy. I was playing a new kid (probably 11-12) and his dice were on fire, example: He was playing orks and put 8 of my 9 raiders and ravagers in the dirt with big shootas and lootas. He got a little cocky and was proclaiming how awesome orks were in that horrible accent that ork players tend to emulate. I then slammed my archon, dracon, and my entire reaver squadron into his nob biker squad, when the smoke cleared they were gone and I was in his flank. I tabled him the next round

I don't blame you. I had a kid kill my captain with massed gaunts, bragged about how his army is best, and my TH/SS termies came in and wiped half his army- all his synapse creatures and his genestealers. Nearly all his army fled, leaving 1,000pts of raven guard facing up to a carnifex and 20 gaunts.

Aldonis wrote:As soon as the "GAME" becomes a "Fight" or "argument" - the fun stops at least for me....

This was one of the reasons why I didn't like War of the Ring was the argument phase of it.

LucasLAD wrote:Agreed, I can't stand playing a game that consists of an argument phase

Argument phase? That's brilliant! I've never heard that term before and I love it.

I've had a game or two like that. Absolutely miserable.

yep. One kid tried to convince me that because he had Bjorn, every vehicle in the army got venerable. okay then...show me the codex entry. Guess what? He said no.
He challenged every rule I used.
"Your guys can't move 12"!"
"Jump infrantry."
"Show me!"
*shows codex*
"...shut up. You won't listen to MEEEE!"
"You keep challenging everything I say."
"No I don't!"

Why would you play against someone like that?

I've packed up my models on more than one occasion when someone was just being too much of a douche. I play this game for fun, not to suffer angry and socially awkward neckbeards.

Monster Rain wrote:Why would you play against someone like that?

I've packed up my models on more than one occasion when someone was just being too much of a douche. I play this game for fun, not to suffer angry and socially awkward neckbeards.

Well, here's an account of what happened:
-he claims all termies are 2+/3++, including SB-armed ones.
-I put it down to a mistake.
-he claims rhinos can self-repair wrecked results on a 5+.
-I put it down to general noobyness.
-he claims all psykers on a 3+ die because he has this SC.
-I ask to see the codex entry that states it.
-he refuses.
-I say that I won't let him do it until I see the entry.
-He drops it, I put it down to extreme noobyness.
-He DS'es his 5 termies 1cm away from my squad, and rolls a direct hit.
-I didn't notice (dropped some dice), and say he has to roll a mishap, or re-do the roll.
-He claims that he can move them back in the movement phase and ignore the mishap roll.
-I say the rules don't work like that.
-He insists it is so, and upon several other backing me up, he claims he could have easily beaten me if I didn't "cheat", and that his 5 SB's would have killed my 12-man unit of a captain, chapter master and 10 vanguards.
-I point out that even if he hit and wounded every roll, and I failed armour every time, there would still be 2 guys remaining, he claims his 10 wolfscouts would have killed my devastator squad, inquisitor & retinue and vanguards.
-I point out that they would have been floored by my 700-point vanguard squad.
-He proclaims "YOU JUST WON'T LISTEN" and ragequits, mumbling about how I cheat and how he'd destroy me next time. Every time I see him, he asks "Will you give me a game so I can destroy you?" Upon which point I say "1- you got tabled by me turn 3, 2- I doubt that you could "destroy" me as much as I destroyed you last game, and 3- I won't, because you cry about every rule I use and generally make it a waste of time and unenjoyable."

aka_mythos wrote:Reality check time, though - toy soldiers aren't worth getting into physical altercations over. There is no "proportional" physical response to someone breaking one.

The point is the value of the item being destroyed, not the actual item. What if he got mad and tore your coat? Threw your cheap digital camera on the ground? Is jumping up and down on your glasses?

12thRonin wrote:Assault over a $50 model would be one that would likely get attention due to the absurdity of it. It would stand out that if this person is emotionally immature enough to resort to violence in this case, what else would they do in cases of stress?

Same point. the fact that is a game/toy/model is 100% irrelevant. You are protecting $50 worth of property, not a toy. If somebody stole a $50 bill and is in the process of tearing it in front of you and you punched them in the face to stop them, would it still be absurd? Would people talk about how you are emotionally immature because you took action to protect your property and kept somebody from destroying a $50 bill?

I could care less if somebody destroys my toys, I care very much that somebody is destroying my property.

d-usa wrote:

12thRonin wrote:Assault over a $50 model would be one that would likely get attention due to the absurdity of it. It would stand out that if this person is emotionally immature enough to resort to violence in this case, what else would they do in cases of stress?

Same point. the fact that is a game/toy/model is 100% irrelevant. You are protecting $50 worth of property, not a toy. If somebody stole a $50 bill and is in the process of tearing it in front of you and you punched them in the face to stop them, would it still be absurd? Would people talk about how you are emotionally immature because you took action to protect your property and kept somebody from destroying a $50 bill?

I could care less if somebody destroys my toys, I care very much that somebody is destroying my property.

Yup, still absurd. There are legal recourses to someone destroying your property, whatever it is. None of them involve punching someone in the face.

d-usa wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Reality check time, though - toy soldiers aren't worth getting into physical altercations over. There is no "proportional" physical response to someone breaking one.

The point is the value of the item being destroyed, not the actual item. What if he got mad and tore your coat? Threw your cheap digital camera on the ground? Is jumping up and down on your glasses?

12thRonin wrote:Assault over a $50 model would be one that would likely get attention due to the absurdity of it. It would stand out that if this person is emotionally immature enough to resort to violence in this case, what else would they do in cases of stress?

Same point. the fact that is a game/toy/model is 100% irrelevant. You are protecting $50 worth of property, not a toy. If somebody stole a $50 bill and is in the process of tearing it in front of you and you punched them in the face to stop them, would it still be absurd? Would people talk about how you are emotionally immature because you took action to protect your property and kept somebody from destroying a $50 bill?

I could care less if somebody destroys my toys, I care very much that somebody is destroying my property.

I think the immaturity comes into play when people refuse to aknowledge that the paining side of this hobby if in FACT art, it may not be main stream art, or of great tallent in most cases, but the point is that you are expressing yourself in an ARTISTIC way.

So stealing your logic, if i smashed the Mona-Lisa, I would be in an apropriate ammount of trouble.
If you smashed my Better than Eavy-metal standard mini's that have taken me LITERALLY months to do.. you would be in an apropriate ammount of trouble.
its all relative, what is not relative, is that they are both art.

to be more clear, there was an art piece at the Tate in London, it was a bed... that had been slept in... with cans around it... This is not art in my opinion, but my opinion does not sutract from the fact that it is art. because it was an expresion of the person making it.

shrike wrote:
-He proclaims "YOU JUST WON'T LISTEN" and ragequits, mumbling about how I cheat and how he'd destroy me next time. Every time I see him, he asks "Will you give me a game so I can destroy you?" Upon which point I say "1- you got tabled by me turn 3, 2- I doubt that you could "destroy" me as much as I destroyed you last game, and 3- I won't, because you cry about every rule I use and generally make it a waste of time and unenjoyable."

you good sir are my new hero

Formosa wrote:I think the immaturity comes into play when people refuse to aknowledge that the paining side of this hobby if in FACT art, it may not be main stream art, or of great tallent in most cases, but the point is that you are expressing yourself in an ARTISTIC way.

So stealing your logic, if i smashed the Mona-Lisa, I would be in an apropriate ammount of trouble.
If you smashed my Better than Eavy-metal standard mini's that have taken me LITERALLY months to do.. you would be in an apropriate ammount of trouble.
its all relative, what is not relative, is that they are both art.

to be more clear, there was an art piece at the Tate in London, it was a bed... that had been slept in... with cans around it... This is not art in my opinion, but my opinion does not sutract from the fact that it is art. because it was an expresion of the person making it.

I left the art aspect out of my argument, because it can be subject to such wild ranges of opinion.

But a $50 model is worth, at the very least, $50. If you want to count the art aspect, in addition to time and labor, the value of the model comes up. But the comparison of a $50 model to a $50 bill is using the minimum value. If I would be forced to go to court because I protected my property I would make a heavy argument that my $50 model is worth more than that. Maybe by taking into comparison what the fair market value of painted models vs. unpainted models is. Or if I had a model that I paid to have painted I certainly would add that to the value.

But my point stands. If somebody takes a $50 bill from you and starts to tear it in front of your face, according to some folks on here I am supposed to watch him destroy it while getting his contact information so that I can later press charges. Meanwhile the store owner is supposed to give me a new $50 bill because of a crime that everybody witnesses and nobody stopped.

If somebody destroys $50 worth of property I will protect it. My reaction would depend on the value of the property being destroyed. Having some idiot jump on a rank & file Space Marine would make me angry, but having the same guy jump on a Forgeworld Dreadnought that I paid over $100 for is going to cause me to protect my investment.

I agree with you D-Usa, but I think that the Art aspect moves these models more into the "priceless" area for me, no matter how hard you try, no 2 models will ever be the same, there will always be slight diferences, this in my mind makes them unique and thus priceless.

I have a Model, its a Screamer Killer, this is the first model i ever got, It was given to me by my Brother, he has since "passed away" this model will never be repainted and will never be sold or replaced, I still use it to Game with it mainly due to its Value to me... now can any of you tell me that is not priceless?
and you would not be more than a little miffed if it was Stollen or destroyed on purpose? (acidents are just that, acidents)
These "Toys" are not just toys to some people, my crappy painted ugly screamer killer is a direct link to my brother, it has real emotional meaning for me. It is worth as much if not more than the Mona Lisa

Do you guys see what im getting at?

Janthkin wrote:Yup, still absurd. There are legal recourses to someone destroying your property, whatever it is.

Since you seem to be knowledgeable about such legal matters, once you pay your fees and whatnot how much of that 50$ will you actually recoup by going to small-claims court? I'm genuinely curious.

Janthkin wrote:None of them involve punching someone in the face.

It seems like this whole line of argument is predicated on someone calling the cops. Please tell me that someone getting a little rap on the mouth for being an property-destroying donkey-cave isn't something that would have to immediately involve the police? We had some crazy gak go down in our LGS back in NH. I mean crazy. I mean there was WWE style metal chair swinging. The police were never involved.

Monster Rain wrote:

Janthkin wrote:Yup, still absurd. There are legal recourses to someone destroying your property, whatever it is.

Since you seem to be knowledgeable about such legal matters, once you pay your fees and whatnot how much of that 50$ will you actually recoup by going to small-claims court? I'm genuinely curious.

There is no simple answer to that question. Small claims fees vary by state (and, at least in California, by the amount you are seeking). The amount you are likely to recover is also going to vary, depending on the cost of the model itself, plus whatever you can convince a judge the paint job is worth (quotes from paint-by-commission services might be useful here, to establish a baseline value).

Janthkin wrote:None of them involve punching someone in the face.

It seems like this whole line of argument is predicated on someone calling the cops. Please tell me that someone getting a little rap on the mouth for being an property-destroying donkey-cave isn't something that would have to immediately involve the police? We had some crazy gak go down in our LGS back in NH. I mean crazy. I mean there was WWE style metal chair swinging. The police were never involved.

As I mentioned a few pages back, this is an area where we're all going to have our own spin on things. As a lawyer, I assume that anyone who gets physically assaulted is going to call the cops, press charges, and probably file a civil suit for battery; my own opinions and actions will generally reflect that bias.

Seriously, can we drop the legal crud and talk about horrible tournament stories?


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Monster Rain wrote: We had some crazy gak go down in our LGS back in NH. I mean crazy. I mean there was WWE style metal chair swinging. The police were never involved.

Now this is on topic. Please tell me more.

Monster Rain wrote:

Janthkin wrote:Yup, still absurd. There are legal recourses to someone destroying your property, whatever it is.

Since you seem to be knowledgeable about such legal matters, once you pay your fees and whatnot how much of that 50$ will you actually recoup by going to small-claims court? I'm genuinely curious.

Janthkin wrote:None of them involve punching someone in the face.

It seems like this whole line of argument is predicated on someone calling the cops. Please tell me that someone getting a little rap on the mouth for being an property-destroying donkey-cave isn't something that would have to immediately involve the police? We had some crazy gak go down in our LGS back in NH. I mean crazy. I mean there was WWE style metal chair swinging. The police were never involved.

Oh, really? One person attacked another person with a metal chair, and no police were called? Really?

It's as simple as this. You are allowed to use a reasonable amount of force to protect your property. There is no allowance in the law for you to use any amount of force to take revenge for someone damaging your property.

I'll be completely blunt. If anyone were to physically assault me for any reason, the cops would be called, after the altercation were complete. The only way he could keep me from calling the cops would be to kill me.

Haha...I have to say, I find it hilarious all the wargamer geeks that act like they're somehow physically intimidating or something.

whatever happen to the days in which you got into a brawl and then took each other out for a beer, Just so there were no hard feelings...

Saldiven wrote:Oh, really? One person attacked another person with a metal chair, and no police were called? Really?

The funny thing is, I don't care if you believe me. The people that were there (some of whom post on this very forum) know that it's true.

Saldiven wrote:I'll be completely blunt. If anyone were to physically assault me for any reason, the cops would be called, after the altercation were complete. The only way he could keep me from calling the cops would be to kill me.

Are you the kind of guy that picks fights or destroys anyone else's models? You probably don't need to worry about it.

Saldiven wrote:Haha...I have to say, I find it hilarious all the wargamer geeks that act like they're somehow physically intimidating or something.

Who's saying that? You sound insecure.

Alastergrimm wrote:whatever happen to the days in which you got into a brawl and then took each other out for a beer, Just so there were no hard feelings...

I don't know man. People are soft anymore.

I agree with ya Monster Rain, people are getting too soft.

I'm not acting like I'm some kind of bad ass or whatever, but I've been in a couple of scraps and it has never occurred to me (or any of the people that I was confronting) to call the police.

I punched my best friend in the face after he shot me in the leg with a blow dart (where's that drunken orkmoticon?) and the next day we carried on like nothing had happened.

nsdocholiday wrote:

shrike wrote:
-He proclaims "YOU JUST WON'T LISTEN" and ragequits, mumbling about how I cheat and how he'd destroy me next time. Every time I see him, he asks "Will you give me a game so I can destroy you?" Upon which point I say "1- you got tabled by me turn 3, 2- I doubt that you could "destroy" me as much as I destroyed you last game, and 3- I won't, because you cry about every rule I use and generally make it a waste of time and unenjoyable."

you good sir are my new hero

^^ consider me flattered.

Monster Rain wrote:I'm not acting like I'm some kind of bad ass or whatever, but I've been in a couple of scraps and it has never occurred to me (or any of the people that I was confronting) to call the police.

I punched my best friend in the face after he shot me in the leg with a blow dart (where's that drunken orkmoticon?) and the next day we carried on like nothing had happened.

that sounds like a truly mental night.
Oi! Oi! Yakface! pwease make a drunk and high-five orkmoticon! Pwease!

Sorry Pretre. No one seemed to listen.

Locking off-topic thread (and seriously people, err on the side of caution when it comes to punching someone; not only could you get in a heap of legal trouble, you never know how good a fighter the other guy is).