Hello again fellow Dakkites!!!
I have returned once again to pester you all, MWAAAAA HA HA!!!!!
As almost everyone should know Dark Millennium Online the Warhammer 40,000 mmorpg is being released some time this year. PC Gamer announed late 2011 and game.co.uk have said the 4th of March 2011.
I personally am bobbing around my house in anticipation to such a game. Please post your comments on DMO, what class/race you want to be, who you want featured, when it's released, rumours, etc.

I'll pay a million pounds for the opportunity to drive a Titan.

Source for these dates? Cause most places say 2012 or even 2013

Soladrin wrote:Source for these dates? Cause most places say 2012 or even 2013

Last time I heard about the game I was interested in being a tech priest, so unless something more interesting comes along I guess that.

That's funny because what game.co.uk actually says about the release date is nothing at all.

Troll harder.

Who are you even talking to?

The OP, duh.

Doh.. >_>

I have to say, that GAME does put up random release dates. That's why they suck.

Hell, I went in there to get one game, and they told me it wasn't released (after about 10 minutes of looking on the computer). I promptly went and bought it in the HMV next door.

Funny, Gamestop did that too, but everyone knows Gamestop are a bunch of lying bastards anyway so I guess we just expect it from them.

Definitely not going to be March 2011 as I have been told I am in with a good chance of being in the early preview group. Most likely late 2011 from my understanding so far but I dont have concrete info yet.

So late 2011 or early/mid 2012. I can deal with that.

Yea, I guess its a good thing Im getting a new PC this tax season


Im pretty stoked, so much so I never use that word. Obviously, Ill be an Ork first off. And seeing that footage of flying a deffkopta around makes my heart pound. How badass would that be?

Is there any new news on it yet though? I stopped looking about a month or so ago, because it was the same recycled crap

Nothing at the moment.

Sadly all the shows where info will probably come out are a way off yet.

So unless they surprise us with a direct release of info via their own site, or a in depth magazine special, it's going to be a quiet few months I reckon.

Of course once a Beta kicks off, news will trickle through much more often.

Is that like, late 2011 normal people time, or late 2011 mmo-developer time, "meaning add 2 years to any date listed"?

When I move down to Austin and totally get a job at Vigil I'll tell you guys what's up.

But, I'm betting no release till 2012+, its an MMO after all...

This site says it's somewhere between April 1 2012 and March 31 2013.
I'm not sure how reliable it is though.

They apparently have verification, but I can't listen to it right now.

Yeah, thats the word that's been given by official channels, been news for a while.

I keep seeing shorter dates thrown around, but nothing from Vigil/THQ.

Warp Watchers has been on top of the news for the past year and a bit. We had other DMO sites getting there info from us, so we know we where quick.

Well, all I know is I want to be an ork, and tech priest.

this game looks great i want it to be out now but i can wait a lil bit longer

The way I see it, StarWars online is coming out this year. That can hold me over until 40k comes out. then StarWars will most likely not ever see me again

They're proably waiting until RIFTs dilutes WoW a bit and then they might be able to steal a share of the market.

Phototoxin wrote:They're proably waiting until RIFTs dilutes WoW a bit and then they might be able to steal a share of the market.

I'm going to say I doubt this, and the reason they haven't released, and aren't releasing soon, is because it simply isn't ready.

Over the next few months is probably the most optimal time for any MMO to be released. Players have been crying out for a viable alternative to World of Warcraft/EVE Online for some time, and taking full advantage of that is to the developers best interest. Especially as several of the highly anticipated MMOs are expected to be released later this year/early next year (The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 to name the bigger ones) that will cause competition and people not wanting to leave their established community.

RIFT plays decently, and is certainly a half-decent or better game, but it's too similar to WoW to really draw large portions of the market away from WoW. Quite a few players will think 'I have friends in this game. Do I want to try a new game that may not succeed, and is pretty much a more polished version of this game, or just stay here and save myself the trouble, and enjoy my time with the friends I've made.'

Of course, that would be my reasoning seeing it from the players perspective, and you could be correct. But I personally doubt it.

----

I am rather interested in seeing more about DMO, but everything I've seen has been the same stuff over and over.

Therefore, my interest is on the backburner until more consistant information begins being released.

I know for a fact WoW players are getting sick/bored with it. My brother inlaw has played horde since the game came out, hes one of those guys that has like 6 maxed out toons. He completely HATED the alliance. But no more then a month ago he swapped every one of his toons to alliance for a change of pace, and apparently ALOT of people have done the same. WoW was certainly a great MMO, but everything must come to an end at some point in time. I think WoW has just hit that point, kind of the beginning of the end thing

WoW is getting stale the more you play anyway, it's like a repeat job, the end game content, is where you and your team manage to bully couple of characters that is might as well be unbeatable in the real warcraft universe

Another complaint: It makes blizzard delay their games... ALOT

I want an RPG to the taste of WH40K or Starcraft
please no more medieval fantasy, sword and magic RPG

Retrias wrote:please no more medieval fantasy, sword and magic RPG

This.

I think the issue with future RPG's is the fact that they have to have a lot more features than a sword and bow RPG. Namely they have to worry about players wanting to ride around in vehicles and then there are the guns. Everybody likes guns, but everyone likes their gun to be different. People are going to want gun-specific upgrades and customizations because its the future so they should be able to customize their gun.

Then back to the vehicles, we're talking the ability to pilot tanks and crew titans. People are going to want that because its there and that leads to issues. Then there's the shooting aspect of the game, deciding whether or not a person hits or misses is one issue. Then they have to decide how they do the shooting, auto-aim, FPS style, etc. I've seen MAG work out well with the FPS view and that runs 256 players, now they need to see if something like that is possible for potentially over a million people.

Out of all of this, it looks a lot better graphics wise than WoW. I can only hope that I can get a good computer before it comes out and of course hope that it will have an optional subscription fee.

No they will go with a subscription for sure. Ive heard they are going to have some options as far as not pull a WAR and making the game to hardcore PC stats. That was one of the problems with that game. Sure it wont be nearly as lax as WoW but Im sure if you have a modern PC youll handle it fine. Seriously, cant wait to be a PK weilding nob, or possibly a Mek of some kind. Now THAt would be the tits.Not really sure what they have as far as that goes, but we will all see soon enough I guess

Duplicate.

Nevermind.

I haven't been following this one, I hope its not a Warhammer Esque world like WAR was.

.....

Seriously, One God ravaging the Empire, and Male DE sorcerers? Not to mention Orcs taking orders from Goblins...

It cant be, I was reading a review in PC Games and it said that Vigil have prepared themselves for a mikstake like that, because if they mess up they will be tracked down by angry fans everywhere. I agree Kingcracker, I also have something to stay me over until DMO is out, i have the wonderfully free Allods Online and DoW2 Retribution out in March.

Also Champions just went free to play if you fancy some superhero action.

As to WoW, I feel the same Kingcracker. I got to 85 in a few days, earned enough gear to do heroics, but its not got the same pull anymore.

Unlike Wrath that managed to feel really fresh, Cataclysm hasn't got that same feeling. It feels like I'm re-running Wrath again in a lesser impressive skin.

Mass Effect grabbed my attention and I've barely played WoW for three weeks, getting to the point I'm not sure I'll resub in March.

Plus with 40K and hopefully WoD due next year, I'd say my WoW days are numbered, even if I stick it out this year and that will mainly be due to my Guild.


As to the WaR comps, fair comment on the one God, Mythic wimped out there for sure, but Dark Elf Sorcerors exist (okay not in thenumbers a player base would allow, but they are there) and Goblins have been known to talk Orks into doing stuff. Just takes a really damned sneaky one.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Also Champions just went free to play if you fancy some superhero action.

Yay! I loved champions, was a great follow-up to City of Heroes/Villains..

Retrias wrote:WoW is getting stale the more you play anyway, it's like a repeat job, the end game content, is where you and your team manage to bully couple of characters that is might as well be unbeatable in the real warcraft universe

Another complaint: It makes blizzard delay their games... ALOT

I want an RPG to the taste of WH40K or Starcraft
please no more medieval fantasy, sword and magic RPG

People have been saying that WoW was going to collapse since before they released BC. The fact is, they still have more customers than any other MMO and they have not lost population, they are still well over 10million. People only talk about WoW being a grind fest and how it is stale because it is the largest MMO, the most successful MMO, so everyone has to try and knock it down from the pedestal it has built.

Also, every MMO you play is going to be the same. You work to reach level cap, then you raid end game content with your buddies, when that gets old, you do a ton of PVP, then back to raiding. That is just how MMOs work. I mean, how else would the game pan out? They cant have an actual ending like a single player RPG because people wouldnt pay a monthly fee for that, and it wouldnt have the replay factor.

I would love to play a warhammer MMO, but I tried to play the fantasy one and it was terrible, and I had extremely high hopes for it.

WoW is not successful for no reason, it is more complete, more streamline, and more user friendly than any other, and that keeps people playing.

http://massively.joystiq.com/category/warhammer-40k

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/02/03/thq-says-40k-mmo-due-by-march-31-2013/

I dunno where you guys are getting 2011 from, its always been late 2012/early 2013.

Let the speculation hounds roam with idiotic statements such as:

"Oh, if Space Marines are like how they are in fluff, the game will suck!"

"Everyone's going to be a space marine"

"This game will suck because of XXX"

"Space Marines are going to be OP"

"This game will end up like WAR"

Also, a gem I found on the DMO Heresy-Online thread, pretty funny if you've ever played WoW

I'm sure space marines will have:

*Kill 10 rats
*Bring Rat Skins to Company Master
*Choose quest reward: Land Raider or Whirlwind.

next quest:

*Kill 20 rats
*Bring Rat Skins to Company Master
*Quest reward: Congrats you have recieved Terminator Honours.

Morathi's Darkest Sin, is champions really free?

Basically yep, you can go to all zones, get to max level for free with a starting total of two characters.

What they've done is making a few character custom options that you'd need to buy to get all options, but there is plenty enough options there so you don't need to.

Some character packs, made it so freeform is only available to subs/lifetime folks. So you pick a Mind or Fire hero for example and all your powers are of that type.

Some of the travel powers require a payment to unlock, but five are still free including Acrobatics and Flight, which where two of my faves anyways.

It's very much a xbox live situation, the game is totally viable without spending a penny, but there are plenty of little upgrades you could do.

For example of costs, a 1000 Atari points cost just under £8, to buy an extra Character slot costs 200pts, to unlock one of the two Archetype heroes that start locked would be 980pts and to unlock one of the locked Travel powers was 420pts.

So not to bad in my opinion.

I hope DMO isn't like that, I'd be forced to buy everything available, lol.

I don't know how they're going to be doing the shooting, that is going to be a big thing.

I

KingKodo wrote:Also, every MMO you play is going to be the same. You work to reach level cap, then you raid end game content with your buddies, when that gets old, you do a ton of PVP, then back to raiding. That is just how MMOs work. I mean, how else would the game pan out? They cant have an actual ending like a single player RPG because people wouldnt pay a monthly fee for that, and it wouldnt have the replay factor.

This man has never played Guild Wars!

Slarg232 wrote:

KingKodo wrote:Also, every MMO you play is going to be the same. You work to reach level cap, then you raid end game content with your buddies, when that gets old, you do a ton of PVP, then back to raiding. That is just how MMOs work. I mean, how else would the game pan out? They cant have an actual ending like a single player RPG because people wouldnt pay a monthly fee for that, and it wouldnt have the replay factor.

This man has never played Guild Wars!

I quit guild wars after the first or second expansion. It was fun, but my friends just did not want to keep playing. WoW is in a whole different world of polish compared to guild wars. And, I do not really get what you do when you are higher levels. I raided some stuff but nothing really came of it. Then I did their weird PVP against bots thing, that was terrible. The game just is not user friendly at all. It seemed as though if you did not have a guiding hand constantly, the game would turn out boring and bland. I would like to see a new version where they smoothed out the whole system.

KingKodo wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

KingKodo wrote:Also, every MMO you play is going to be the same. You work to reach level cap, then you raid end game content with your buddies, when that gets old, you do a ton of PVP, then back to raiding. That is just how MMOs work. I mean, how else would the game pan out? They cant have an actual ending like a single player RPG because people wouldnt pay a monthly fee for that, and it wouldnt have the replay factor.

This man has never played Guild Wars!

I quit guild wars after the first or second expansion. It was fun, but my friends just did not want to keep playing. WoW is in a whole different world of polish compared to guild wars. And, I do not really get what you do when you are higher levels. I raided some stuff but nothing really came of it. Then I did their weird PVP against bots thing, that was terrible. The game just is not user friendly at all. It seemed as though if you did not have a guiding hand constantly, the game would turn out boring and bland. I would like to see a new version where they smoothed out the whole system.

You do know some people see the fact that games just point you at everything you have to do as a bad thing right? It takes away most of the challenges. You just mindlessly follow the marks, thats it. I hate games that constantly have a guiding hand saying what you should and shouldn't do.

That said, Guild Wars is a pile of gunk which I returned to the store on the day I bought it (dumb ass didn't know how cd-keys work so I got a refund xD).

I agree with you soladrin, but there is an extreme opposite of that which makes games even worse. Games that present no path for your character are terrible. Sure, you want some freedom in developing and the choices you make, but a game with no purpose is nothing.

If someone asks you to do something, without giving you any kind of specifics, how are you supposed to do it?

KingKodo wrote:I agree with you soladrin, but there is an extreme opposite of that which makes games even worse. Games that present no path for your character are terrible. Sure, you want some freedom in developing and the choices you make, but a game with no purpose is nothing.

If someone asks you to do something, without giving you any kind of specifics, how are you supposed to do it?

By discovering those specifics yourself.

Also, you seem to confuse keeping a hand over you at all times with giving you a purpose now, those are two completely different things.

I will definetly play Guard!!! My friend wants to be a Dark Eldar...Like that will ever happen

I really have my hopes up for this game!

As i recall, there hasn't been a most popular Sci-fi MMO (well, besides EVE Online). With my fingers crossed, i'm looking much forward to this game!

As for character/class... Something with pointy ears... And boobs!

Eve Online is a genre of its own, I've played it before. Its indescribable to people who haven't played it.

I honestly can't wait for this game. I know that I will be one of the first to sign up on their forums once they open them up, and one of the first to pre-order.

That game will be mine.

Soladrin wrote:

KingKodo wrote:I agree with you soladrin, but there is an extreme opposite of that which makes games even worse. Games that present no path for your character are terrible. Sure, you want some freedom in developing and the choices you make, but a game with no purpose is nothing.

If someone asks you to do something, without giving you any kind of specifics, how are you supposed to do it?

By discovering those specifics yourself.

Also, you seem to confuse keeping a hand over you at all times with giving you a purpose now, those are two completely different things.

So a guy gives you a quest to kill some goblins, but doesnt tell you how many, what kind, or where they are. People wouldnt even play a game like that. It may seem like an interesting way to go about things, but that will slow down gameplay in a time where people want fast paced games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karon wrote:Eve Online is a genre of its own, I've played it before. Its indescribable to people who haven't played it.

I honestly can't wait for this game. I know that I will be one of the first to sign up on their forums once they open them up, and one of the first to pre-order.

That game will be mine.

I really enjoyed Eve online for a while. The only complaint I have is that there is very little to do in combat. You basically tell your ship how far away you want to stay from the target, and then select which weapon you want to start shooting at said target. It would be much more exciting if you could dogfight with people, and have to aim your guns. Guess I will have to wait for jumpgate for that.

private jones!
Sir?
Here take this sheet of cardboard, flashlight and blunt knife, you have just joined the squad.
Thankyou sir!
Our mission is to hold the line, while the marines charge foward, are slaughtered in the glory they deserve, and we win the battle

^
Shame the game game wont ever be like that lol

I think I saw somewhere that you can be guard squad leader, and levelling up gets you more guardsmen to command, just think I saw it though, not confirmation

The amount of Guild Wars hate in this topic makes me sad

:(

Anyone know how Chaos is going to be represented? I've only seen Khornate stuff, but what about the other gods? Any Lost and the Damned? Or is it like the WH fantasy MMO where there was one god (Tzeentch)?

Could we be a daemon :O

Well from screenshots we've seen Khorne Bezerkers and a Nurgle Daemon so far, so potentially they are all there. I hope so, although its likely those where mobs.

Also WaR had all four powers, its just you could only play one. Which made the reasoning even more bizarre when you think about it.

KingKodo wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

KingKodo wrote:I agree with you soladrin, but there is an extreme opposite of that which makes games even worse. Games that present no path for your character are terrible. Sure, you want some freedom in developing and the choices you make, but a game with no purpose is nothing.

If someone asks you to do something, without giving you any kind of specifics, how are you supposed to do it?

By discovering those specifics yourself.

Also, you seem to confuse keeping a hand over you at all times with giving you a purpose now, those are two completely different things.

So a guy gives you a quest to kill some goblins, but doesnt tell you how many, what kind, or where they are. People wouldnt even play a game like that. It may seem like an interesting way to go about things, but that will slow down gameplay in a time where people want fast paced games.

I'd enjoy the road to finding those nasty green things.

Billinator wrote:I really have my hopes up for this game!

As i recall, there hasn't been a most popular Sci-fi MMO (well, besides EVE Online). With my fingers crossed, i'm looking much forward to this game!

As for character/class... Something with pointy ears... And boobs!

So eldar?

Slarg232 wrote:Seriously, One God ravaging the Empire, and Male DE sorcerers? Not to mention Orcs taking orders from Goblins...

Orcs don't take orders from goblins (unless you are complaining that there are goblin quest givers?) and the main Chaos baddie was a Champion of Tzeentch, but had the blessings of all the gods. If you went to the main city there were daemons and cults for all four. You just played as members of a Tzeench following tribe of marauders, but the were others in the game.

WAR had potential, I always thought they should let me be a Beastman Chosen, though D:

And, just to clarify for everyone. We know almost nothing race wise. The only thing that has been announced race-wise is the Imperium, all else is speculation

Yeh Karon you're right, only the Imperium of Man has been announced as an actual playable race, everything else, despite pictures is still just speculation

I'm not thrilled that it seems that we're only having 2 factions... again.

I don't want to be a guardmen allied with Eldar and whatever race they stretch and rape the lore to make fit. Im all for coalitions, like an Imperium Faction being Guardsmen/Commissars etc with Space Marines, and maybe possibly an alliance between Eldar and Tau (somehow) but I just want the game to have more than 2 factions. It makes for funner fights.

Kasrkin Jack wrote: stretch and rape the lore to make fit.

You do know they have allied in the past right? This isn't some video game company making stuff up.

Yeah, I understand that the Eldar and Imperium sometimes join together to face a greater evil (Usually chaos), but I guess if they ever add more races, they're going to add to the existing factions. Judging by how xenophobic the Imperium is, I really think it would be better for them to be standalone race. Besides, it wouldn't really be fluffy to have a Farseer walking around an Imperial town, buying food from the local shops and that, would it?

Karon wrote:Eve Online is a genre of its own, I've played it before. Its indescribable to people who haven't played it.

I honestly can't wait for this game. I know that I will be one of the first to sign up on their forums once they open them up, and one of the first to pre-order.

That game will be mine.

I like the word "BIG" when describing Eve online... the word "daunting" is another.

Seriously, nobody can rival EVE in its size. It is, literally, epic.

Look up the definition for Epic, kiddies. The only things that are epic are Books/Tales of great heroes, oceans, and the cosmos. You going to Mcdonalds isn't epic.

Guys, Vigil has NEVER announced that there is only two factions.

I mean, there is reason to believe the Imperium is a faction of its own...why was it announced alone when Orks seemed to be in the same stage of development judging by the video?

crimsonfist832 wrote:It cant be, I was reading a review in PC Games and it said that Vigil have prepared themselves for a mikstake like that, because if they mess up they will be tracked down by angry fans everywhere. I agree Kingcracker, I also have something to stay me over until DMO is out, i have the wonderfully free Allods Online and DoW2 Retribution out in March.

Yea I want to try that game out BADLY! but my current PC just commits suicide in the bath tub when I try it. But Im getting a nice tax return this year, so my new PC will be here sometime in the next monthish.

Is Allods really as good as it looks?! Because it looks awesome

For a free mmorpg, Allods Online in my eyes owns the free genre, its really good and its set out quite well. Theres an in-game boutique that lets you buy things using gpoints, which are points bought using real money, players say because its free why not get a little something for yourself, but, yeh Kingcracker, Allods is good

It's just a generic fantasy MMORPG to me, so let's talk about DMO instead.

Karon wrote:Guys, Vigil has NEVER announced that there is only two factions.

Over here it says,

You mentioned in another interview that there will only be two overall factions in the game. Can you explain how this will work and what armies will be working together?

We are working very closely with Games Workshop to ensure that the experience that we will deliver in Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium Online will remain true and faithful to the IP. We know that this particular issue has been a subject of much debate. However, once we have finished revealing all of the races, classes and key storylines for the game and how they all interrelate to one another, we know that the fans are going to love it. How could they not when Games Workshop is closely working with us on making sure that the game stays true to the lore and the IP.

I'm not sure where the interview they are referring to is though.

Also, the game's website says:

Side with the forces of Order, or the vile hosts of Destruction,

Good=Man, Eldar, Tau?
Bad=Chaos, Deldar, Orks

Good luck explaining Orks allying with anything. They either get used by a smarter faction, or they stomp on everyone.


I'm not expecting Tau or Deldar in the first release. Necrons won't be PC for the same reasons as Nids, probably the main enemy for an expansion.

Doubt Inquisition will be playable since 5000 Inquisitors on one planet... no go. Will probably have a purely quest based function.

Daemons same as nids and necron's, with the added bonus of maybe being intricate with CSM's powers and quests. Chaos guard probably won't show their face in this.

/Speculation.

Just because Inquisition is playable doesn't mean everyone's an Inquisitor. "Inquisition" also includes inquisitorial servants under the Inquisitor's command, which theoretically is almost everyone in the Imperium, but in practice is a select cadre of varying size depending on the nature of the Inquisitor (some control huge masses of servants, others are more loner do it yourself type inquisitors).

Melissia wrote:Just because Inquisition is playable doesn't mean everyone's an Inquisitor. "Inquisition" also includes inquisitorial servants under the Inquisitor's command, which theoretically is almost everyone in the Imperium, but in practice is a select cadre of varying size depending on the nature of the Inquisitor (some control huge masses of servants, others are more loner do it yourself type inquisitors).

Yeah, I know the lore, and most of the inquisitorial "classes" can be found in other cases too, and since it's a combat oriented game, that kind of limits it to gunmen/assasins/psykers since they can hardly make you every possible human thing you can think of. And if you can be an Inquisitor you will still be seeing to many of them. I think the Inquisition will have the role of end game Imperial NPC's.

Probably. I'm just saying its not the only way to happen.

Also, I hope I can play a psyker. An Imperial one, not some douchey little Marine psyker.

Just speculating here, I'm not saying it's impossible, just.. highly unlikely since the other factions/races etc are so much easier to work with.

Only imperial Class I'm interested in is Tech Priest, and when I get bored with Orks and TP I might try guard.

Didn't they (THQ) say that Space Marines/CSM's wouldn't be available right off and would have to be unlocked? I recall reading that somewhere.

I don't believe so.

Karon wrote:I don't believe so.

Did some looking around and found the interview with one of the developers:

It has a lot of the same qualities of WOW in terms of ease of use and how the interface is. I want to say that if you play WOW, you'll be able to jump into Dark Millennium Online really easy.

But you won't be able to be a Space Marine right away, because that's a very unique class, if you know the universe. The road there is a great road, and they are in the game.

Very interesting. This suggests that you will start off as a scout, and branch off as you go, possibly.

I can't imagine this game coming out anytime soon. They barely have anything up on the website - I wanna know more about the classes.

Noisy_Marine wrote:I can't imagine this game coming out anytime soon. They barely have anything up on the website - I wanna know more about the classes.

Its last reported date was March of 2013.

This game is going to fail where every other mmorpg fails and the rp part will consist of you being called a noob for not knowing how to cast Gaymanzius Mechanicus with your level 2 psyker class wizard with the cloak of light + 9.

Also there is no way they are going to string together a plot in an mmorpg without taking extreme liberties with the fluff. Which would annoy the part of me which enjoys reading black library novels.

Not for me. Maybe we could have like a single player rpg based around Dark heresy rules in the same way Baldurs gate/Neverwinter were based on AD&D rules. That would be cool.

whatwhat wrote:This game is going to fail where every other mmorpg fails and the rp part will consist of you being called a noob for not knowing how to cast Gaymanzius Mechanicus with your level 2 psyker class wizard with the cloak of light + 9.

Also there is no way they are going to string together a plot in an mmorpg without taking extreme liberties with the fluff. Which would annoy the part of me which enjoys reading black library novels.

Not for me. Maybe we could have like a single player rpg based around Dark heresy rules in the same way Baldurs gate/Neverwinter were based on AD&D rules. That would be cool.

Your claims are baseless, as we have almost no information on DMO yet.

Having a single player RPG based on DH rules would be phenomenal. Have BioWare do it, and it'll be gravy

A game using the DH rules would be great and would last abpout 60 seconds before TPK and you have to start over.

Two factions, a colorful bright world. I think it's gona suck. The factions thing, i mean honestly? Servants of Khorne side with dark eldar and orks because? Its not because he need friends to find a higher level chainsword is it? Or does it concern the book we have to get for the Archon?

It will be a whole new level of silly.

I hope i'm wrong, cos if I am then I will play the lego rpg which i beta tested.

Bossasaurus wrote:a colorful bright world.

Considering it is still about two years away I think it is nice that you have gotten a look at the final world. Care to enlighten us? Considering Dark Eldar haven't really been mentioned at all I am glad to here that not only are they in the game, you understand how they work and who they are fighting with.

Oh, dark eldar are just a shot in the dark- but i assume you've seen the trailers, and all those screen shots showing imp classes, like the duel bolt pistol templar and what not.

Karon wrote:

whatwhat wrote:This game is going to fail where every other mmorpg fails and the rp part will consist of you being called a noob for not knowing how to cast Gaymanzius Mechanicus with your level 2 psyker class wizard with the cloak of light + 9.

Also there is no way they are going to string together a plot in an mmorpg without taking extreme liberties with the fluff. Which would annoy the part of me which enjoys reading black library novels.

Not for me. Maybe we could have like a single player rpg based around Dark heresy rules in the same way Baldurs gate/Neverwinter were based on AD&D rules. That would be cool.

Your claims are baseless, as we have almost no information on DMO yet.

Which claim are you referring to?

whatwhat wrote:This game is going to fail where every other mmorpg fails and the rp part will consist of you being called a noob for not knowing how to cast Gaymanzius Mechanicus with your level 2 psyker class wizard with the cloak of light + 9.

Give me one example of an mmorpg where any actual role play happens? It doesn't. It's full of people going: "I'm level 10 in debauchery" "I'm level 2" "lolz! What a noob." mmorpg's seem to have taken rpgs, made them multiplayer and sidelined or got rid of the reason I enjoy playing rpgs.

whatwhat wrote:Also there is no way they are going to string together a plot in an mmorpg without taking extreme liberties with the fluff. Which would annoy the part of me which enjoys reading black library novels.

For example: How is any storyline going to explain why there are so many inquisitors on one planet? Why are so many races in one place? The eye of terror campaign had enough trouble explaining that one and that's the most war torn area of the galaxy (An honorary Ultramarine company? Very funny GW). It will end up like Dark Crusade with strained explanations as to why this place has so much going on.

We don't know how they are going to handle anything. So you straight up saying 'Oh, this game will fail because it will!" is ridiculous.

Giving "every mmo fails" as a reason, isn't a reason.

Karon wrote:We don't know how they are going to handle anything. So you straight up saying 'Oh, this game will fail because it will!" is ridiculous.

Giving "every mmo fails" as a reason, isn't a reason.

I didn't say any of that. What I said was: this game is going to fail where every other MMORPG fails and sideline the roleplay aspect. I didn't say the game would straight up fail, but in that particular aspect it will. There may be many other aspects of the game which work very well. But it's a dealbreaker for me personally.

And I didn't I say "every mmo fails" or give it as a reason for anything. I'm base my own opinions on the fact it has been this way with every game in the genre before it and I have seen nothing so far to see how this game will be any different. That's right, I am expressing my own opinions here, not stating objective fact.

whatwhat wrote:

Karon wrote:We don't know how they are going to handle anything. So you straight up saying 'Oh, this game will fail because it will!" is ridiculous.

Giving "every mmo fails" as a reason, isn't a reason.

I didn't say any of that. What I said was: this game is going to fail where every other MMORPG fails and sideline the roleplay aspect. I didn't say the game would straight up fail, but in that particular aspect it will. There may be many other aspects of the game which work very well. But it's a dealbreaker for me personally.

And I didn't I say "every mmo fails" or give it as a reason for anything. I'm base my own opinions on the fact it has been this way with every game in the genre before it and I have seen nothing so far to see how this game will be any different. That's right, I am expressing my own opinions here, not stating objective fact.

They don't all hard up fail though, you just need to know where to look.

WoW has a very active roleplaying community spread across the RP servers. However, it's only really on the RP servers that WoW manages to actually have a successful role-play aspect, where it's actually a reportable offense to grief role-players. But, if there is dedicated servers to it, and dedicated servers to PvP etc., then that's kinda to be expected.

whatwhat wrote:

Karon wrote:We don't know how they are going to handle anything. So you straight up saying 'Oh, this game will fail because it will!" is ridiculous.

Giving "every mmo fails" as a reason, isn't a reason.

I didn't say any of that. What I said was: this game is going to fail where every other MMORPG fails and sideline the roleplay aspect. I didn't say the game would straight up fail, but in that particular aspect it will. There may be many other aspects of the game which work very well. But it's a dealbreaker for me personally.

And I didn't I say "every mmo fails" or give it as a reason for anything. I'm base my own opinions on the fact it has been this way with every game in the genre before it and I have seen nothing so far to see how this game will be any different. That's right, I am expressing my own opinions here, not stating objective fact.

I apologize, I clearly misread. Damn you internet!

Though, I would like to say (I think the guy above me already said it) that there are RP servers for this reason. I used to be part of the RPPVP Twisting Nether server, and I was a part of a griefing RP guild. As in, we went around and griefed other Rp'ers in an RP fashion, by killing them because we were a mercenary lord. People payed us to kill other people.

I would guess that there will be RP or RPPVP servers that can fill your RP needs.

Karon wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

Karon wrote:We don't know how they are going to handle anything. So you straight up saying 'Oh, this game will fail because it will!" is ridiculous.

Giving "every mmo fails" as a reason, isn't a reason.

I didn't say any of that. What I said was: this game is going to fail where every other MMORPG fails and sideline the roleplay aspect. I didn't say the game would straight up fail, but in that particular aspect it will. There may be many other aspects of the game which work very well. But it's a dealbreaker for me personally.

And I didn't I say "every mmo fails" or give it as a reason for anything. I'm base my own opinions on the fact it has been this way with every game in the genre before it and I have seen nothing so far to see how this game will be any different. That's right, I am expressing my own opinions here, not stating objective fact.

I apologize, I clearly misread. Damn you internet!

Though, I would like to say (I think the guy above me already said it) that there are RP servers for this reason. I used to be part of the RPPVP Twisting Nether server, and I was a part of a griefing RP guild. As in, we went around and griefed other Rp'ers in an RP fashion, by killing them because we were a mercenary lord. People payed us to kill other people.

I would guess that there will be RP or RPPVP servers that can fill your RP needs.

Dude, you weren't a member of 'The Grim' were you?

<--- Former TN player myself, and still proud, if barely active, member of the Twisting Nether Gazette.

I've said this before, many times.

This could've been squad-based, as well as based on the existing points system for the tabletop game (your allotted points = your level), and every single race (as well as every single unit) would've been viable. Fill out the low pop races with NPCs, and every single race could've also been it's own faction.

Instead, they had to use WoW as a template. This game is going to fail so hard it isn't even funny. All you hopefulls make me chuckle.

I don't think the devs are saying what you all think, there have been records of Tau and Eldar siding with SM, but even if they did in the end they fought each other to find a predominant race/army. Same goes with CSM and Orks, they have allied but would then crush one another after their enemy is dead. I don't think the Forces of Order and Destruction are going to be as closely knit as the WAR versions, but rather alliances on the balance of destruction, so, even though you may find Eldar in Order you can probably count on having to fight them in pvp or rvr, something like that. And, please, whoever keeps saying deldar, don't say it, its annoying.

Chrysaor686 wrote:I've said this before, many times.

This could've been squad-based, as well as based on the existing points system for the tabletop game (your allotted points = your level), and every single race (as well as every single unit) would've been viable. Fill out the low pop races with NPCs, and every single race could've also been it's own faction.

Instead, they had to use WoW as a template. This game is going to fail so hard it isn't even funny. All you hopefulls make me chuckle.

Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

What the feth are you whining about? When have they ever said that any of this bs? That it wasn't going to be squad-based?

Stop pulling gak out of your ass. Nobody gives a flying feth if all you're going to say is "Oh, this game will fail because of XXX"

There has been an interview or two saying that there will be several planets, IIRC, btw.

Karon wrote:What the feth are you whining about? When have they ever said that any of this bs? That it wasn't going to be squad-based?

Stop pulling gak out of your ass. Nobody gives a flying feth if all you're going to say is "Oh, this game will fail because of XXX"

There has been an interview or two saying that there will be several planets, IIRC, btw.

Obviously, you give a flying feth, or you wouldn't be over-reacting so readily.

The main reason that I wish that the game was squad-based is to make every aspect of 40k viable, instead of limiting players to a select few classes and races. If you could play as a squad, you could use literally any unit in the game, no problem (aside from maybe Titans and the like). Limiting people to a single character just doesn't make any sense in terms of balance, especially considering just how powerful some single units can be. Where do you draw the line? Players obviously won't be able to attain the most powerful of units, and the weakest units certainly aren't going to be playable. They could've been, though.

How do I know it isn't squad-based? It's fairly easy to tell from the trailer and various interviews that in it's current form, it's not. Besides, limiting the number of races kind of destroys the purpose behind that anyway. It simply becomes a fething Space Marine simulator, like so many other 40k-based games.

Where are my Tyranids? My Witch Hunters? Necrons? Limiting my options like that simply isn't an accurate or satisfying representation of 40k. Just because you're happy with your options doesn't mean that I have to be.

"There’s two layers to an MMO. There’s the upper layer, which is progression, merchants, getting abilities and all that kind of stuff, and we have some twists and turns in there but for the most part it’ll be quite similar to the other MMOs out there."

You know what that says to me? "WoW clone". Even if the combat ends up being drastically different from most MMOs, that still doesn't really matter. To be 'like most other MMOs', in any sense, you must use WoW as a template. I have a severe problem with that.

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

Confirmed at being over quite a few planets.

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Karon wrote:What the feth are you whining about? When have they ever said that any of this bs? That it wasn't going to be squad-based?

Stop pulling gak out of your ass. Nobody gives a flying feth if all you're going to say is "Oh, this game will fail because of XXX"

There has been an interview or two saying that there will be several planets, IIRC, btw.

Obviously, you give a flying feth, or you wouldn't be over-reacting so readily.

The main reason that I wish that the game was squad-based is to make every aspect of 40k viable, instead of limiting players to a select few classes and races. If you could play as a squad, you could use literally any unit in the game, no problem (aside from maybe Titans and the like). Limiting people to a single character just doesn't make any sense in terms of balance, especially considering just how powerful some single units can be. Where do you draw the line? Players obviously won't be able to attain the most powerful of units, and the weakest units certainly aren't going to be playable. They could've been, though.

How do I know it isn't squad-based? It's fairly easy to tell from the trailer and various interviews that in it's current form, it's not. Besides, limiting the number of races kind of destroys the purpose behind that anyway. It simply becomes a fething Space Marine simulator, like so many other 40k-based games.

Where are my Tyranids? My Witch Hunters? Necrons? Limiting my options like that simply isn't an accurate or satisfying representation of 40k. Just because you're happy with your options doesn't mean that I have to be.

"There’s two layers to an MMO. There’s the upper layer, which is progression, merchants, getting abilities and all that kind of stuff, and we have some twists and turns in there but for the most part it’ll be quite similar to the other MMOs out there."

You know what that says to me? "WoW clone". Even if the combat ends up being drastically different from most MMOs, that still doesn't really matter. To be 'like most other MMOs', in any sense, you must use WoW as a template. I have a severe problem with that.

You are funny.

You're saying all these outrageous assumptions from two TRAILERS. Not gameplay trailers, just a trailer.

"Yeah, fairly easy to tell from the trailer"

What about the 4 guardsmen? What about the space marines standing next to eachother?

You don't know gak about the game just like none of us do.

None of your "tyranids, necrons, and witch hunters" have been shown yet, because the game is roughly two years away.

Where do you draw the line? Players obviously won't be able to attain the most powerful of units, and the weakest units certainly aren't going to be playable. They could've been, though.

Yeah, it could've been. Even though the game isn't going to be released for another TWO fething YEARS

winnertakesall wrote:

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

Confirmed at being over quite a few planets.

My bad then I thought I read/heard somewhere that it was just one planet with orbital hubs.

Soldarin you've obviously read something different or wrong then, no offence . For a 40k mmorpg you would expect a sector of some sort, and, hopefully a large one at that. Also, if space combat and space travel aboard battle barges, strike cruisers and such was possible this game is going to own.

Yeah, I wonder how they will travel? I am thinking space combat........

Boarding actions would be amazing, if you could use Caestus Assault-Rams to blow a hole in the side of an Ork Kill Krooza, assuming they are in DMO, my head will explode

crimsonfist832 wrote:Boarding actions would be amazing, if you could use Caestus Assault-Rams to blow a hole in the side of an Ork Kill Krooza, assuming they are in DMO, my head will explode

MIND EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope there are actually battles, my only worry is that it will try to be like wow, although the fact it appears to be a sort of shooter may add something different

Yeh, the shooter element will keep this apart from other mmorpg's and you'd think that with a game like 40k online there would be pvp in space

Although the problem you would have there is just loads of high level players blockading certain routes, making it impossible to travel

winnertakesall wrote:Although the problem you would have there is just loads of high level players blockading certain routes, making it impossible to travel

you're making the assumption there will be levels

Grundz wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:Although the problem you would have there is just loads of high level players blockading certain routes, making it impossible to travel

you're making the assumption there will be levels

+1

I wanna be a commissar. I hope you can be one

DMO should be made like a combination of Planet Entropia, Star Wars Galaxies and Planetside.

PE had a really nice shooting system where headshots were crits, arm shots were disarms and leg shots slowed your enemy. it was pretty nice having benefits for hitting specific locations rather than spam rounds and hope you hit something.

SWG had loads of stuff to do, like exploring, faction missions, crafting and even totally weird stuff like cooking or dancing... but it gave all types of gamers something to do. i think a tech-marine should be able to make weapons or atleast improve basic ones, apocatharies should be able to heal in battle or make heal kits. etc. stuff like this gives you a purpose in battle and when you are interacting with the other players.

Planetside took many 40k related things and put them in a FPS MMO. Terminator armor, check; drop pods, check; titans, check. they did create a really nice way for players to level up and experience everything in the game. instead of stats you got skill points that you could spend on training your character. they were used for armor, weapons, special equipment and vehicles.

so i think you would start as a neophyte and then get a few skill points to buy scout armor and a shot gun and then a sniper rifle, eventually you could get tactical armor and choose for a jump pack and weapons kit or a bolter kit or a heavy weapon kit. and eventually down the road you would get terminator armor.

you would also be able to spend points on piloting a rhino or a speeder or a bike.

just some of my thoughts of things that worked and were cool in other games that would really work and make a 40k mmo fun.

The above would be a fun way to go at it. I really just hope that your class makes sense. Meaning, if your an apothecary, then your main focus is on healing your group and maybe doing some supporting fire. Where as in WoW, healers can strait kick your ASS in a PvP. Wait, Im a super badass Ork warrior with incredibly expensive magical armor, and I literally look like a tank on 2 feet. Your wearing a see through gown..............yet here I am, picking my teeth up off the ground.


Again, really hope the classes make sense.

KingCracker wrote:The above would be a fun way to go at it. I really just hope that your class makes sense. Meaning, if your an apothecary, then your main focus is on healing your group and maybe doing some supporting fire. Where as in WoW, healers can strait kick your ASS in a PvP. Wait, Im a super badass Ork warrior with incredibly expensive magical armor, and I literally look like a tank on 2 feet. Your wearing a see through gown..............yet here I am, picking my teeth up off the ground.


Again, really hope the classes make sense.

See, I think that makes sense. In WoW, a healer wins through attrition. You may be a walking tank, but they can deflect or simply heal any damage you happen to do to them while keeping a constant stream of damage from damage over time effects on you. It's really the only way a healer can be competitive in 1v1, and make sense. In a group PvP setting, they're doing exactly what you want the Apothecary to do, healing and giving some supporting effects and damage.

Besides, mages wear the 'see-through gown' as well, and their fireballs would literally roast you alive inside the armor.

That said, I hope the classes make sense as well.

The problem with that though, is at best a healer should be doing support damage, not pounding the hell out of a class that is designed to be out front getting his head kicked in. Now a MAGE beating the piss out of a tank makes sense, not a healer. That was one thing that annoyed the hell out of me in WoW. Youd get PVP healers and the like in an instance and instead of you know, doing their JOB, they would go out and try to do the damage instead and totaly feth up the group. Thats why I hope the classes make sense. Allowing a healing class to do that, messes up the flow in group matches. And that really goes for any class, when you allow them (I mainly think WoW just did it because they were scrambling to keep people paying) to do things that is not natural for said class, it just kills the flow of the game.

KingCracker wrote:The problem with that though, is at best a healer should be doing support damage, not pounding the hell out of a class that is designed to be out front getting his head kicked in. Now a MAGE beating the piss out of a tank makes sense, not a healer. That was one thing that annoyed the hell out of me in WoW. Youd get PVP healers and the like in an instance and instead of you know, doing their JOB, they would go out and try to do the damage instead and totaly feth up the group. Thats why I hope the classes make sense. Allowing a healing class to do that, messes up the flow in group matches. And that really goes for any class, when you allow them (I mainly think WoW just did it because they were scrambling to keep people paying) to do things that is not natural for said class, it just kills the flow of the game.

Someone who's a specced healer can only do support damage at best.

Smite priests and all other forms of DPS specs (Shadow, Elemental, Boomkin etc.) are specced to do damage, with the ability to throw a heal if needed, and most healing from those specs is horrific at best, and horribly mana inefficient. People going in and attempting to deal damage while supposed to be healing, well, I never ran into that as I queued heals, but I can imagine if they can't actually do it it would be quite bad. I believe many saw players like myself who ridiculously outgeared the content and thus would queue heals as a caster DPS spec, then drop a heal as needed....but it only works when both the healer and the tank are vastly overgeared for the instance.

Believe me, as someone who played an Elemental/Resto shaman, the difference is so noticeable. Same gear and Lightning Bolts that would be doing 10k+ would hit for 4k, which was piss all back in WotLK, but especially is so now. Used to cry geek tears watching Lava Burst hit for 7k.

---

Is the problem that you see that people that are specced heals can do damage you think isn't proportional, or that classes you believe are healing classes (Priests, shaman etc.) can spec into competitive damage with the ability to throw a piss-poor heal if needed?

Maybe Im just close minded when it comes to things like this. To me, a healer should be a healer. When I used to play WoW, it seemed like everytime we would get a "healer" it was some assclown that was a shadow priest that chose healing as well. And instead of half ass healing, would just ignore the role he chose and try to impress with his shadow magic.

Make a class that does what it should do, it doesnt muddy up things like instances like I mentioned.

I liked models that allowed a class to fill more than one role, primarily because it allows two things:

- Taking people, rather than class. If your group has 3 healers, but can only use one, 2 can go DPS and all is fixed.

- Not having to reroll simply because you got bored of healing. It happens to all after long enough unless you do something else, and then you get bored of the game and leave.

I don't think having a class be 'heals' and nothing else is a great approach, obviously. I do think that people should actually fill the role they're taken for though. If you're a healer in a group, you heal, and use supporting abilities.

With your model, in the interest of fairness, should you not be able to do anything but tank if you're a tanking class? If so, isn't the variety of the game going down going to make the game feel...less exciting I suppose. I like finding out what I'm against, and having to build strategies on the fly.

KingCracker wrote:Maybe Im just close minded when it comes to things like this. To me, a healer should be a healer. When I used to play WoW, it seemed like everytime we would get a "healer" it was some assclown that was a shadow priest that chose healing as well. And instead of half ass healing, would just ignore the role he chose and try to impress with his shadow magic.

What would you say about games which don't actually have proper healers, like City of Heroes/Villains?

No, defenders aren't healers. Corrupters sure as hell aren't either.

In fact, though the game's community is second to none, most people will probably mock you for asking for a healer or assume you're a noob coming over from some lesser game like WoW. "Empathy", the "healing" power set, is one of the weakest in the game. Personally I'd rather have a bubble or a radiation defender. FEAR THE BUBBLER OF DOOM.

Ive never played city of heros/villains, so I cant comment on that at all sadly.



I do see your point VBP, I guess I just get completely annoyed by people that dont understand the concept of their roles. I can honestly count on 1 hand, the times, in any MMO mind you, that I have had a group of people that just rocked together and everyone did what they should. In any other situation, we would have someone come in as a "healer" and instead of healing, they just wanted to score as much damage as possible, and totally ignore the group. Im sure if any of you have played an MMO, you know how incredibly frustrating that gak gets.

Eh, that's part of why I liked CoH/CoV so much back in the years I played it. Every class save blasters had adequate self-heal powers, and even blasters had easy to obtain healing inspirations and enough DPS that a team of blasters could still, when planning a mission out right, accomplish hard missions without losses.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33425/THQ_Dark_Millennium_Costs_In_50M_Range_uDraw_Projections_Up_To_17M.php

THQ executive vice president and CFO Paul Pucino said the company is projecting costs in the $50 million range to get its first MMO, the Warhammer-licensed Dark Millennium, to market in 2012, putting the title's development budget at "the high end of a core game," he said.

Thats about all the info in the article, but at least we know what they are putting into the project.

Any news is good news. Even though we already knew it was going to be 2012

Fiscal Year 2012, I'm sure he means as they have stated before. This could very well be in Q1 2013.

I have opinions galore on this game.

Part 1: factions

A WoW alliance vs horde style system would only work if they limited the playable races to the imperium vs chaos. In my opinion this is the only way to keep us fans happy cause as soon as you have an ork allied with anything you have us nerds getting all sweaty and shouting and lets keep that confined to tournament weekends okay? Down side of this mode lis not everyone gets to play their favorite race and as soon as you shoehorn another race in with "Order" and "destruction" you have Sweaty nerd syndrome

One race per faction would be more lore correct as it would seal off each race in their own little Xenophobic worlds where the only communication between factions is through the sights of your bolter. Major problem with this model is the fact that you would need, something like 9 seperate factions which would be almost impossible to balance and control.

I like the idea of having everyone in one group. That way you can let the playerbase make their own factions. Hardline Imperium players over here and they don't like the devout eldar players over there but then you might have the inbetweeners factions of the eldar/imperium/tau that tolerate each other to the point of alienating their own races hardliners.

One big problem is the fanatical hatred that is everywhere in 40K. Having that hatred translate to an mmorpg is a torrent of forum complaints of this marine player overplaying the hatred of that eldar player waiting to happen.

more musings to come...

=I=

Karon wrote:Fiscal Year 2012, I'm sure he means as they have stated before. This could very well be in Q1 2013.

Well that sucks, we will all be dead by then, polar shifts and all.

Zenarius wrote:I have opinions galore on this game.

Part 1: factions

cause as soon as you have an ork allied with anything you have us nerds getting all sweaty and shouting and lets keep that confined to tournament weekends okay?

I dont get this. Are you saying its unfluffy for Orks to ally with anything? They have many times. Infact Ive heard of stories of certain Imperials "using" the Orks for war as well. Orks will fight for anything and with anything as long as they are fighting and killing.

If thats not what you meant, then please explain more?

I'm in no way saying that it is unfluffy for Orks to ally with any other race. What i am saying is that it is VERY unfluffy for Orks to be in a permanent alliance with several other races.

So lets lcompaire to the warcraft universe for a second. For the past 5-10 years the orcs, trolls, tauren, blood elves and now the goblins are in a happy little family. Does anyone really see the orks, dark eldar and Forces of Chaos in the same long term situation?

"In the 41st millenium there is only war" I would really llike to see the folks at vigil to keep that statement in the front of their minds. This is why i really like the free for all one faction model it allows the warmongers to attack anyone they see fit to and it lets the diplomats create alliances where they see fit. I see a game universe that is constantly in motion with players determining what side they are on due to their actions not a choice made on the character selection screen.

^
I'm definitely liking this idea.

And what was annoyng about wow was being unable to speak to the enemy, so annoying.

I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

Wait a minute...

Hands up who else can spot the guy that just basically said his idea for one faction where everyone can fight and communicate with everyone else isn't going to work, cause i sure can.

Well it definitely didn't come out on March 4...

For an example of the many faction system at work, you could take a look at EVE Online. There are 3 factions in the game, true, but the players are not strictly affiliated with them. You would start in the "safe" computer controlled area and then as you gain weapons, ships, etc. move out into the uncontrolled area and ally yourself with a "company," which works similarly to a guild, but you can create space stations and the like to solidify your territory.

Its a system that really impresses me and seems to work quite well. However, it would need a lot of tweaking to fit into the 40k universe.

honestly it should work more like Shadowbane where everyone is hostile to everyone and then you can make your own alliances in game.

frankly the idea of mixed races in a party really doesnt fit in the 40K universe, it really didn't make much sence in WAR either. if they were to allow mixed race groups i would hope they would give a bonus to groups that are all the same race. that would only work if each race had access to the same basic classes.

samusaran253 wrote:Well it definitely didn't come out on March 4...

Of course not. It wasn't going to; it's going to come out in late 2012/early 2013.

As to the "mixed races" bit...

In Warhammer Fantasy it works perfectly fine in terms of fluff.
Orcs go where the fight is. Dark Elves manipulate everyone. Tzeentch doesn't really care, so long as his schemes are set in fruition.

The High Elves, Empire, and Dwarfs have had ancient compacts to come to each other's defense, so it's no real problem there.

What we're likely to see in DMO is something akin to the 13th Black Crusade.

Certain factions, like the Eldar and Imperium, will ignore their differences in the face of a larger threat--Chaos and the Orks. Who, again, do fight alongside Chaos forces--provided the promise of a Big Fight and Shiny Things.

I love the idea of guilds and factions being player driven. It leaves the system open to wonderful little situations like a Puritan guild being infiltrated by chaos aligned spies and creating a schisim and all kinds of hoo haa. I hate that artificial wall that is put up between factions in so many games it makes what could be a wonderfully grey area that is open to interesting situations between different charcters into a boring black and whiite world. 40K should should be a really xenophobic world but that Xenophobia means nothing if it is enforced in a way that says "these are your friends here and those are your enemy over there" player need to make that decision for themselves.

Offcourse, if a guardsmen were to even mention siding with something else the pc would be insta-gibbed.

All i want is to be able to rule a craft world as a sort of quild leader, have my own fleet, and space battles would be very nice if they decide to put them in there. I would want my craft world to be sort of home for all of the members of my "Guild" and i would think that that would be perfect.

P.S. Riding in Jet bike would be awsome!!!

Zenarius wrote:I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

it is to prevent grief and also prevent "tea parties" between factions

your only options are to fight or run away, you cant socialize with them.

Grundz wrote:

Zenarius wrote:I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

it is to prevent grief and also prevent "tea parties" between factions

your only options are to fight or run away, you cant socialize with them.

You can dance with them. I've gotten a few cross faction dance parties going.

More information on "Tea Parties?" I figure it is different factions letting each other steamroll events and achievments but clarification would be awesome.

I see griefing as a potentially massive problem in DMO. I will be a marine, I will be a staunch member of the Adeptus Astartes that will bring the Holy light of the emperor to the dark reccesses of the Sargos sector and burn with holy Fury those that try to undermine or oppose the Holy emperors name. (I'm also hoping they have RP servers for fluff Zellots like myself in case you hadn't guessed)

Now If I'm asked to fight allongside eldar forces that the imperium has decided they need to "temporarily work with" for a "greater good" then this little geneticlly enhanced superhuman that has forgone his own humanity to protect the rest of humanity and protect it from (say it with me folks) The alien, the mutant and the heretic, is not going to be terribly happy with the situation.

These "Tea Parties" you are talking about went on in the guild I was in on Twisting Nether, which was RPPVP in WoW.

We had a Alliance and Horde parts, and would coordinate strikes on the enemies on the guild on both factions. We would smuggle goods over, and generally just break the rules of the game in an RP fashion. We have many, many GM's telling us to stop, but they really couldn't do anything. Since we were using Ventrillo to communicate cross-faction, it wasn't technically against the rules.

It can happen if you are dedicated enough.

Zenarius wrote:I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

Wait a minute...

Hands up who else can spot the guy that just basically said his idea for one faction where everyone can fight and communicate with everyone else isn't going to work, cause i sure can.

Did I say that?

I was refering to myself with that remark a few posts ago. No criticisms aimed at anyone but myself.

I think Race/faction/class is going to be a very hot topic in the lead up to DMO. The success/failiure of Star Wars: The Old Republic and it's attemps at class balance will be very interesting to look at. Both universes have certain classes (Jedi/Marines) that are fluff wise much more powerful than others (troopers/guardsmen) If Bioware can stop everyone from rolling jedi/sith DMO has a chance (and obviously so does SWTOR)

What they need to do really is have marines as one person, then someone playing as IG is a squad sergeant, and every few levels gets a new squad member. Helps balance things out I think, 5 guardsmen in carboard armour equal to a space marine at the same same level? Fair i think.

Who cares about fluff? As long as they come out with a great title in terms of gameplay and not some rehashed WoW clone I am all for it! What people fail to realize is that this all needs GW approval, you know... the guys who write the fluff? And as the guys who write the fluff are their words not what makes the warhammer universe run? So if they decide that Eldar convert to nurgle and Necrons have a change of heart and hand out flowers instead of bullets then why would people complain? Either way, the forums will always be crammed with angst filled neckbeards who have nothing better to do than point out flaws in a game that they lack the intellect or drive to create but at the end of the day will still play the game anyway. Not a personal attack on anyone here, just my two cents. I'm sure 98% of WoW players couldn't care less about the story background anyway and the numbers rose just fine.

happydude wrote:Who cares about fluff? As long as they come out with a great title in terms of gameplay and not some rehashed WoW clone I am all for it! What people fail to realize is that this all needs GW approval, you know... the guys who write the fluff? And as the guys who write the fluff are their words not what makes the warhammer universe run? So if they decide that Eldar convert to nurgle and Necrons have a change of heart and hand out flowers instead of bullets then why would people complain? Either way, the forums will always be crammed with angst filled neckbeards who have nothing better to do than point out flaws in a game that they lack the intellect or drive to create but at the end of the day will still play the game anyway. Not a personal attack on anyone here, just my two cents. I'm sure 98% of WoW players couldn't care less about the story background anyway and the numbers rose just fine.

Yeah, I don't want that. At all. I want a fluffy MMO that has great gameplay. I don't care about the WoW players.

Many, many people care about the fluff, including myself. GW does need to approve it, and they won't approve anything that is fething stupid. They made the guys who were doing Space Marine re-do it because they originally had bolters just stunning guys and not doing any damage.

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:Who cares about fluff? As long as they come out with a great title in terms of gameplay and not some rehashed WoW clone I am all for it! What people fail to realize is that this all needs GW approval, you know... the guys who write the fluff? And as the guys who write the fluff are their words not what makes the warhammer universe run? So if they decide that Eldar convert to nurgle and Necrons have a change of heart and hand out flowers instead of bullets then why would people complain? Either way, the forums will always be crammed with angst filled neckbeards who have nothing better to do than point out flaws in a game that they lack the intellect or drive to create but at the end of the day will still play the game anyway. Not a personal attack on anyone here, just my two cents. I'm sure 98% of WoW players couldn't care less about the story background anyway and the numbers rose just fine.

Yeah, I don't want that. At all. I want a fluffy MMO that has great gameplay. I don't care about the WoW players.

Many, many people care about the fluff, including myself. GW does need to approve it, and they won't approve anything that is fething stupid. They made the guys who were doing Space Marine re-do it because they originally had bolters just stunning guys and not doing any damage.

That's not entirely true.

They didn't "make the guys who were doing Space Marine" re-do anything. The game passed hands from the people originally doing it, over to THQ/Relic.

Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

The issue with player run factions is that Ultrasmurf X can shoot and murder Ultrasmurf Y since X's player's a tool and a greifer. In character the smurfs wouldn't turn on each other unless subverted by chaos or somrthing.

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Yeah, they won't let anything fly now--but still, that specific instance had nothing to do with GW and everything to do with the original developers getting acquired by THQ/Relic.

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

happydude the point of a 40k mmo is to have a 40k mmo. The hardcore and even noob 40k fans out there will agree, who gives a s**t about the gameplay if its exactly like 40k from every aspect. Yeh gameplay is a major contributing fact but fluff is what sets it apart. Really I don't care about gameplay if the fluff is correct.

crimsonfist832 wrote:happydude the point of a 40k mmo is to have a 40k mmo. The hardcore and even noob 40k fans out there will agree, who gives a s**t about the gameplay if its exactly like 40k from every aspect. Yeh gameplay is a major contributing fact but fluff is what sets it apart. Really I don't care about gameplay if the fluff is correct.

Wow really? You don't care about the gameplay... as long as the fluff is correct?

Can't believe I'm hearing anyone say "don't care about gameplay".

Game will totally flop if the gameplay is bad, even if all the fluff is correct, just fyi. People usually play games for the gameplay, and while correct fluff is good, it isn't as important, imo, and I'm sure many other people who play games.

But seriously, this is silly. Vigil will surely do their best to adhere to fluff, but some concessions will likely need to be made for balance/gameplay.

I'm not exactly saying I don't care about gameplay AT ALL, ofc not, I do want a good playing game but I'd rather it be fluffy than better gameplay if you can understand what I mean.

crimsonfist832 wrote:I'm not exactly saying I don't care about gameplay AT ALL, ofc not, I do want a good playing game but I'd rather it be fluffy than better gameplay if you can understand what I mean.

I completely understand where you are coming from but I feel that a 40k RPG series would be PERFECT for that and I would love to play it. As far as an MMO well I have friends of mine who find the tabetop game to be the biggest waste of time yet when they looked at the game videos fell in love almost immediately! Gears of war style mmo featuring the cream of the crop from the 40k universe? COUNT ME IN! But hell yes I want to run my farseer whilst my friends guardsman cover me and the tau firewarrior flanks with the marine. Who cares about fluff as long as it is FUN!!! FUN> fluff anyday. And who knows? This may very well be what gets your non gamer friends into the tabletop and I can bet it wont be the corpse on the golden toilet's super soldiers battle creed and history that lures them in.

happydude wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

Wait, so, you're saying you don't care about the fluff?

You do realize that without the 40K fluff, this might as well be another WoW clone, right? The fluff matters very much so, and this game, as Vigil has said before, doesn't need a million subscribers to be a huge success. They don't have to make up a new engine or anything for the game, as they are using the Darksiders engine.

MMORPG is a RPG on a massive scale. Its not an FPS.

I do realize that Gameplay is priority, but without the fluff and background that gives the game its shape, it is gak. They go hand in hand.

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

Wait, so, you're saying you don't care about the fluff?

You do realize that without the 40K fluff, this might as well be another WoW clone, right? The fluff matters very much so, and this game, as Vigil has said before, doesn't need a million subscribers to be a huge success. They don't have to make up a new engine or anything for the game, as they are using the Darksiders engine.

MMORPG is a RPG on a massive scale. Its not an FPS.

I do realize that Gameplay is priority, but without the fluff and background that gives the game its shape, it is gak. They go hand in hand.

Many games have pathetic fluff and yet become great titles. God of War is a HUGE example of a game with a lackluster story and yet the gameplay was what kept people coming back for more. How often in mmo's do you sit there and read every piece text and lit? And to tell you the truth the 40k fluff isn't exactly the best piece of fluff/sci-fi material out there. See you seem to be missing one very small point, that people like you are too few in number for any developers to even care about and I am glad for that. Go read the books if you want fluff. The mmo will be geared towards the masses whether you like it or not and no amount of complaining will alter that fact because money talks my friend. And as far as the engine... well the game engine is not what is debated right now. I speak of the options to toss tau fighting alongside marine and Dark Eldar fighting alongside the forces of Khorne. Want to know why that would be great? because it would be fun! Make new kinds of bolters! new weaponry all across the board! And as big of a fan as you seem to be I doubt changes like that would keep you from playing anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

Wait, so, you're saying you don't care about the fluff?

You do realize that without the 40K fluff, this might as well be another WoW clone, right? The fluff matters very much so, and this game, as Vigil has said before, doesn't need a million subscribers to be a huge success. They don't have to make up a new engine or anything for the game, as they are using the Darksiders engine.

MMORPG is a RPG on a massive scale. Its not an FPS.

I do realize that Gameplay is priority, but without the fluff and background that gives the game its shape, it is gak. They go hand in hand.

And fyi, mmo's since Ultima have about as much to do with true rpg's as most fps games these days anyway, take that from a programmer/developers point of view, but something tells me I'm wasting my breath anyway.
As long as no innovations or great ideas get pushed aside due to fluff then by all means include it up the wazoo with a library in every major city full of it.

Indeed, Gameplay is the priority. And yes, I will be playing this game regardless of what it is, I'll play it because its Warhammer.

Yes, I am in the minority, I just want the fluff to be correct. I don't want bolters to just stun for example, lol.

I do hope the game has a story though, a game needs a background for it to differentiate it from other generic MMO's that follow the Sci-Fi genre.

"Gameplay" isn't really the priority.

Accessibility is.

They want it to be able to run on the same kind of machines that can run WoW--namely: almost every PC out there, made within the past decade

I think that we can all agree that DMO Needs a balance between fluff and gameplay. If the gameplay is perfectly executed then you have the masses on side and a good player base to start with. Over the top of that gameplay there needs to be a nice layer of fluff for the lore nerds like myself to read all the quest text and talk to the npc's to get the backstory on why we are doing what we are doing in this sector/planet.

I even don't mind if the game is divided into a two sided universe with order and destruction as the opposing forces. as long as there is still guld/corporation support then all will be well as it still allows myself and likeminded players to start up communities that can be as fluffily xenophobic as we want them to be. That is unless we get screwed over on the race/class/spec combinations (ie marines not having access to a healing class)

If a marine can spec as an apotheacary but then heal an Eldar player with their narethcium/reductor then the lore nerd in me will be unhappy but at the same we need to be making a working game first and foremost

Heh...

Eldar tank: Heal me!!!

Marine Apothecary: Are you sure dude? This may not go well organ/reductor interface wise...

Eldar tank: Shut up and heal me lore nerd!!!

Marine Apothecary: allrighty then... so... maybe this prong to this part of your abdomen?... ummm

(slice, squish, crunch)

Marine Apothecary: ooh, now this can't be right

Eldar tank: aaaaaggghhhh!!!

(your group has wiped)

Karon you aren't in the minority, there will be loads of fans who want it fluffy and yeh you play it because it's Warhammer 40k and yes Zenarius DMO will need one hell of a balance between gameplay and fluff. I tried the WoW trial recently and it was alright up until the point you get fed up with questing and questing and questing and now that WAR is utterly dead I have no Warhammer mmo. Hopefully there can be some devs sent from god himself this time around and they'll make a game that is perfect in balance and fluff about one of the greatest universe's ever imagined.

Zenarius wrote:

Heh...

Eldar tank: Heal me!!!

Marine Apothecary: Are you sure dude? This may not go well organ/reductor interface wise...

Eldar tank: Shut up and heal me lore nerd!!!

Marine Apothecary: allrighty then... so... maybe this prong to this part of your abdomen?... ummm

(slice, squish, crunch)

Marine Apothecary: ooh, now this can't be right

Eldar tank: aaaaaggghhhh!!!

(your group has wiped)

Just be glad the medic wasnt a Painboy. THEN things would be getting interesting

Oy?! Stop yer whinin umie......Ya dun need dat part anywayz.......er.....wuz it dat part ya dun need? *scratches head*

winnertakesall wrote:What they need to do really is have marines as one person, then someone playing as IG is a squad sergeant, and every few levels gets a new squad member. Helps balance things out I think, 5 guardsmen in carboard armour equal to a space marine at the same same level? Fair i think.

The only place that DMO is going to struggle in race balance is open world pvp. Race balance for instanced pvp and pve can be dealt with by simply copying 40K and using point values for wargear depending on race.

(please note i'm using the following numbers completley off the top of my head so don't take the numbers as set in stone

Example:

Space marine (base cost no gear): 15 pts

power armour: 10 pts

Artificier armour: 20 pts

Bolter: 10 pts

Chainsword: 5 pts

Etc

Guardsman (base cost no gear): 3 pts

Flak armour: 2 pts

carapace armour: 5 pts

lasgun: 5 pts

bolter: 7 pts

etc

So every piece of wargear and equipment has a points cost (you will notice that the bolter for a marine is more expensive than for a guardsman to factor in better base accuracy, speed of reloading, whatever)


So now we have points costs on every race and all the wargear weapons accessories they can equip. The pvp and pve encounters then just need appropriate points values attached to them. Lets say 200 points for a standard pve dungeon or small pvp skirmish perhaps 1000 points for a large scale battle/siege/raid. So each member of the group can use a portion of the points to gear themselves from their personal armoury. The points allowances can be a defult amount or the leader of the group could set each players points pool. This way the leader can decide if the grop is going to be 20 guardsmen tricked out or 30 guardsmen with nothing but flak armour and lasguns or 3 of the beardeyest marines ever seen or one geared marine with 10 geared guardsmen.

The point is that each of these forces will cost the same amount of points so will be on a level playing field

So to Play devils advocate there are to problems with this idea:

1: The whole thing falls apart in open world encounters since the one beardy marine will be hanging out in lower goldspire (see what i did there?...) and thinking he is awesome for beating up a single guardsman.

2: 30 players doing anything successfully is a logistical nightmare. 30 players doing something that 3 of them could be doing on their own? even to me it seem unlikeley (that being said "level 1 hogger raid pst for invite")

squads of guardsmen controlled by one player seems un-elegant to me but it might be the solution in th end.

I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Really? I disntinctly remember a Daemon Sword wielding Grey Knight in the new codecs...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AwesomeFex wrote:I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

As far as I remember, Tyranids will be the main AI mobs.

Soladrin wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Really? I distinctly remember a Daemon Sword wielding Grey Knight in the new codex..

And he's not actually using the Daemon within. He's effectively just using it as a beatstick

AwesomeFex wrote:I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

As far as I remember, Tyranids will be the main AI mobs.

One of them yes. Daemons are supposed to be another.

Kanluwen wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Really? I distinctly remember a Daemon Sword wielding Grey Knight in the new codex..

And he's not actually using the Daemon within. He's effectively just using it as a beatstick

AwesomeFex wrote:I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

As far as I remember, Tyranids will be the main AI mobs.

One of them yes. Daemons are supposed to be another.

I was aware of the Grey Knight. Kanluwen is correct.

Fluff fanboys are too much lol

The GK wielding the daemon sword is Castellan Crowe of the Purifiers and he wields it for the daemon within called out for a strong enough warrior. And btw happydude fluff fanboys are supposed to be the way they are, you couldn't have a God of War game on the ps3 immediately set during the stone age, fluff has to be correct.

crimsonfist832 wrote:The GK wielding the daemon sword is Castellan Crowe of the Purifiers and he wields it for the daemon within called out for a strong enough warrior. And btw happydude fluff fanboys are supposed to be the way they are, you couldn't have a God of War game on the ps3 immediately set during the stone age, fluff has to be correct.

Yeah, the fluff is important.

I've stopped paying too much attention to happydude, he's one of those guys who just doesn't give two gaks about the background, and plays it to "kick ass" in an MMO, which is hilarious.

Karon wrote:

crimsonfist832 wrote:The GK wielding the daemon sword is Castellan Crowe of the Purifiers and he wields it for the daemon within called out for a strong enough warrior. And btw happydude fluff fanboys are supposed to be the way they are, you couldn't have a God of War game on the ps3 immediately set during the stone age, fluff has to be correct.

Yeah, the fluff is important.

I've stopped paying too much attention to happydude, he's one of those guys who just doesn't give two gaks about the background, and plays it to "kick ass" in an MMO, which is hilarious.

Never said I don't care, simply put gameplay take precedence. Was Super Mario's story great? Did it stop you from playing any further mario games when princess toadstool became princess peach? When "Super Mario Brothers" became a useless title since only Mario was selectable for a short while in any of the games? Did it stop you then? And as for "Fluff being correct" about God of War... my friend a mythology class is in order... If the gameplay will not suffer then feel free to slap in all the fluff you wish and make the experience that much better. Also fyi I don't play mmo's because I avoid "fanboys" like yourself, and do yourself a favor and remind yourself that all this fluff you enjoy is really about little plastic soldiers you build to kill some time, not a nerdrage topic lol. And people wonder why I refuse to game at GW's and dropped 40k for Fantasy.

That's not really a good example. Mario doesn't have 30 or so years of background information to respect when a new title comes out. Mario hardly gets more complex than "save the princess" and it doesn't need to. Unlike 40k Mario's success is not built upon it's background as well as it's gameplay.

I would imagine fluff and game mechanics are the main reasons for 40k's success. Otherwise you might as well play with lego blocks but keep the rules.

Also unlike Mario there's a little more a developer or author needs to be aware of when using the 40k liscence. In enjoying 40k a large part of the experience is the background. Sure people want to shoot each other, but seeing your favorite faction come to life is part of the fun.

The gameplay takes precedence in a video game.

That's not to say the lore shouldn't try to be well written, but a gakky game is a gakky game is a gakky game, good lore or not. It's different for tabletop games in a sense, where you have to paint your own miniatures and create your own background.

I am actually driving a Titan right now. Wait, I'm not.

I think people are misunderstanding one another. Fluff advocates are not saying the gameplay needs to be castrated for the sake of fluff (though, some of the other side of the fence seems to be OK with it the other-way around). They want the game to be immersive and fun. We all know that gameplay is the top priority. That doesn't stop people from wanting good fluff in the game, though. You don't treat the fans like gak just for the sake of it. Staying true to fluff becomes an indicator of how much the developers care about "us". The harder they work to make the original fluff work the more fans will reciprocate that hard work into love and, most importantly, money and loyalty.

I'm sure the developers will tread the line the best they can, but we're all going to have to accept that fact that fluff goes out the door when game balance/play comes (i.e. bolter shells that can stun, paralyze, cripple, snare, poison, etc., choppas that have a chance on hit to explode ..) in.

Also, some people -do- read every little scrap of text in a MMO, especially if its their first one. Not everyone is an unrefined brute of a gamer that just runs around spamming accept and 1,2,2,3,4.

I don't plan on buying DMO. I'll try the trial and if it I have to have it I will buy it. Until then I'm not going to keep up with it much more, namely because after getting burned by WAR I don't want to get burned again by the hype-machine.

I agree gameplay is more important than lore, but in a 40k game ignoring the latter doesn't seem like a wise descion. Look how incensed people get over codex innacuracies, I'd imagine people would be quite annoyed if the same happened in an MMO. Though if the gameplay is good enough maybe they could get over it...

But nobody's really arguing that we should ignore the lore entirely... only that a game with crap gameplay is still a game with crap gameplay.

Melissia wrote:But nobody's really arguing that we should ignore the lore entirely... only that a game with crap gameplay is still a game with crap gameplay.

That's probably true. I think I got side-tracked somewhere in this topic and started rambling about something irrelevant.

asimo77 wrote:I agree gameplay is more important than lore, but in a 40k game ignoring the latter doesn't seem like a wise descion. Look how incensed people get over codex innacuracies, I'd imagine people would be quite annoyed if the same happened in an MMO. Though if the gameplay is good enough maybe they could get over it...

Never said to ignore, just keep it as a close second to gameplay. Also Warhammer's current success is really not due to fluff. It USED to be, but now not so much, because I am very sure that those space marine weilding 14 years olds could really care less about it and they seem to be deep in daddy's pockets so they accumulate plastic quite quickly. And as for your example, alter a few key aspects in mario games and watch the crap fly. Canon is canon regardless of the universe it is set in, the point is GAMEPLAY sells games and NEVER the other way around. Thing is people really need to see that it is just a game. Watching your fave faction come to life? Yeah that was cool when I was 8 and my G.I. Joes shot plastic missiles. Warhammer is a game, plain and simple and if you remove the fun factor in favor of fluff watch your game plummet into a downward spiral. As far as MMO's I played WoW ( yeah I know ) and casually would read some text but the game was an excuse to kill time with friends and thats all. I really never cared for who killed who in what battle nor did I care about tier armor because it is just a game. Not a mystical land of wondrous story, not a grindfest where I have to "zomgpwnNoObsgrabgearninjalootroflcopter" my way through it, just a silly game to distract from the ratrace and socialize with a few chums.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

asimo77 wrote:I agree gameplay is more important than lore, but in a 40k game ignoring the latter doesn't seem like a wise descion. Look how incensed people get over codex innacuracies, I'd imagine people would be quite annoyed if the same happened in an MMO. Though if the gameplay is good enough maybe they could get over it...

Agreed, but does that stop them from purchasing said books? My main issue is that after playing WARonline and getting hosed I want something that will bring in flocks of people from different walks and KEEP them there. Not another MMO where it fails horribly...

You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

asimo77 wrote:You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

In Final Fantasy, I agree. In Mass Effect, I'd agree. In a Universe full of war? Not so much. Keep all the lore and history intact just as long as gameplay takes no hits at all. I think I should make a 40k force based on faction likes and dislikes again and stay away from what works on the table because it seems I'm sidetracked with that. I'm just saying I would LOVE to see eldar/marines/sisters/tau and Guardsman all working in unison for a greater good because it is the canon that has me hating everything imperium (pompus jerks) aside from poor guardsman lol. Heck I would love seeing Orks aside Dark eldar slaughtering in unison and laughter while Chaos laughs the night away. Finer details such as certain medics not being able to heal other races properly would kill the gameplay and unity and result in millions of marines vs millions of berserkers and the game goes south like WAR has. I agree to keep MAJOR storylines and major past events intact but who is to say that a certain chaos legion arises with the tech to create Chaos speeders ? Why not have an open world pvp mode alongside the regular and have dream matchups across factions take place, such as Chaos and eldar players fighting orks and guardsman? sure they would never ally but hey it would be fun as heck to play though for an experience that has never been felt outside of tabletop. Maybe many misunderstood me. Keep the bigger issues fine, but try not to sweat the little things if they can be changed to allow for zany fun! Randomness is what warhammer is all about and many of the customizations, fan codex/army books, conversions, paint schemes and campaigns show how stretching the canon here and there is far from a bad thing. Allow the truth to be stretched a little and you may find yourselves embarrassed at how much fun you will have.

happydude wrote:

asimo77 wrote:You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

In Final Fantasy, I agree. In Mass Effect, I'd agree. In a Universe full of war? Not so much. Keep all the lore and history intact just as long as gameplay takes no hits at all. I think I should make a 40k force based on faction likes and dislikes again and stay away from what works on the table because it seems I'm sidetracked with that. I'm just saying I would LOVE to see eldar/marines/sisters/tau and Guardsman all working in unison for a greater good because it is the canon that has me hating everything imperium (pompus jerks) aside from poor guardsman lol. Heck I would love seeing Orks aside Dark eldar slaughtering in unison and laughter while Chaos laughs the night away. Finer details such as certain medics not being able to heal other races properly would kill the gameplay and unity and result in millions of marines vs millions of berserkers and the game goes south like WAR has. I agree to keep MAJOR storylines and major past events intact but who is to say that a certain chaos legion arises with the tech to create Chaos speeders ? Why not have an open world pvp mode alongside the regular and have dream matchups across factions take place, such as Chaos and eldar players fighting orks and guardsman? sure they would never ally but hey it would be fun as heck to play though for an experience that has never been felt outside of tabletop. Maybe many misunderstood me. Keep the bigger issues fine, but try not to sweat the little things if they can be changed to allow for zany fun! Randomness is what warhammer is all about and many of the customizations, fan codex/army books, conversions, paint schemes and campaigns show how stretching the canon here and there is far from a bad thing. Allow the truth to be stretched a little and you may find yourselves embarrassed at how much fun you will have.

Yeah, so your point of view is you don't care about the lore or fluff in the slightest, just gameplay.

Yeah, I hope they don't listen to you.

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:

asimo77 wrote:You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

In Final Fantasy, I agree. In Mass Effect, I'd agree. In a Universe full of war? Not so much. Keep all the lore and history intact just as long as gameplay takes no hits at all. I think I should make a 40k force based on faction likes and dislikes again and stay away from what works on the table because it seems I'm sidetracked with that. I'm just saying I would LOVE to see eldar/marines/sisters/tau and Guardsman all working in unison for a greater good because it is the canon that has me hating everything imperium (pompus jerks) aside from poor guardsman lol. Heck I would love seeing Orks aside Dark eldar slaughtering in unison and laughter while Chaos laughs the night away. Finer details such as certain medics not being able to heal other races properly would kill the gameplay and unity and result in millions of marines vs millions of berserkers and the game goes south like WAR has. I agree to keep MAJOR storylines and major past events intact but who is to say that a certain chaos legion arises with the tech to create Chaos speeders ? Why not have an open world pvp mode alongside the regular and have dream matchups across factions take place, such as Chaos and eldar players fighting orks and guardsman? sure they would never ally but hey it would be fun as heck to play though for an experience that has never been felt outside of tabletop. Maybe many misunderstood me. Keep the bigger issues fine, but try not to sweat the little things if they can be changed to allow for zany fun! Randomness is what warhammer is all about and many of the customizations, fan codex/army books, conversions, paint schemes and campaigns show how stretching the canon here and there is far from a bad thing. Allow the truth to be stretched a little and you may find yourselves embarrassed at how much fun you will have.

Yeah, so your point of view is you don't care about the lore or fluff in the slightest, just gameplay.

Yeah, I hope they don't listen to you.

Try reading the full document. Also, troll harder elsewhere and try to have a decent debate.

Oh look. It's another usage of "troll" as "I don't like you disagreeing with me!".

There's no real issue with having medics that will only be able to heal one particular race. Not when there's at least two other races within that faction who can heal everyone else.
Having Marine Apothecaries being a kind of "combat medic", dishing damage out left and right while only being able to heal his fellow Astartes(who would be in the same vicinity as him in terms of the combat) doesn't really pose a problem. Simply put: all Marines could have a weak self-healing ability based upon the damage they deal that the Apothecary can boost, merely by being present on the field with them.

Then you could have the Eldar/Imperial(likely Tech-Priest Adeptis Biologis) 'healer' type being able to do something similar for nearby non-Astartes.

For the "Disorder" Faction, something very similar could be done using Dark Eldar Haemonculi fighting with Orks, pumping the Orks full of combat drugs to keep them up and fighting.

Chaos Space Marines could have something similar to the standard Space Marines, but with a Sorcerer being able to potentially 'kickstart' that ability into overdrive as necessary.

What's that? Lore actually helping gameplay?

Trolllllllllll!

Kanluwen wrote:Oh look. It's another usage of "troll" as "I don't like you disagreeing with me!".

There's no real issue with having medics that will only be able to heal one particular race. Not when there's at least two other races within that faction who can heal everyone else.
Having Marine Apothecaries being a kind of "combat medic", dishing damage out left and right while only being able to heal his fellow Astartes(who would be in the same vicinity as him in terms of the combat) doesn't really pose a problem. Simply put: all Marines could have a weak self-healing ability based upon the damage they deal that the Apothecary can boost, merely by being present on the field with them.

Then you could have the Eldar/Imperial(likely Tech-Priest Adeptis Biologis) 'healer' type being able to do something similar for nearby non-Astartes.

For the "Disorder" Faction, something very similar could be done using Dark Eldar Haemonculi fighting with Orks, pumping the Orks full of combat drugs to keep them up and fighting.

Chaos Space Marines could have something similar to the standard Space Marines, but with a Sorcerer being able to potentially 'kickstart' that ability into overdrive as necessary.

What's that? Lore actually helping gameplay?

Trolllllllllll!

1. I pray you have no hand in anything related to game design in your lifetime.
2. You should really see the definition of trolling

Medics should heal. Not heal one race, not heal only 2, but heal entirely. medics should differ in usage and skills ( Apothecaries should heal less but pound out more damage because they are combat medics and not simply medics as you mentioned. ) however having apothecaries heal only marines would result in over saturation of marine players the likes of which the table top has today ( Hey you should work at GW they would love you there lol ). They already know that marines will be overplayed now to balance that out steps outside canon may need to be taken or it will be Dark millennium online: space marines ahoy and no one wants that. No one would stick around that game long enough to care about any fluff it may produce and a great project will bite the dust because "fluff" and canon had to be observed 100%. PLEASE never design anything in terms of video games. You sound like you would make a kick-ass dark heresy DM/GM but stay away from the tech world. The less of your kind the farther we can advance.

happydude wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Oh look. It's another usage of "troll" as "I don't like you disagreeing with me!".

There's no real issue with having medics that will only be able to heal one particular race. Not when there's at least two other races within that faction who can heal everyone else.
Having Marine Apothecaries being a kind of "combat medic", dishing damage out left and right while only being able to heal his fellow Astartes(who would be in the same vicinity as him in terms of the combat) doesn't really pose a problem. Simply put: all Marines could have a weak self-healing ability based upon the damage they deal that the Apothecary can boost, merely by being present on the field with them.

Then you could have the Eldar/Imperial(likely Tech-Priest Adeptis Biologis) 'healer' type being able to do something similar for nearby non-Astartes.

For the "Disorder" Faction, something very similar could be done using Dark Eldar Haemonculi fighting with Orks, pumping the Orks full of combat drugs to keep them up and fighting.

Chaos Space Marines could have something similar to the standard Space Marines, but with a Sorcerer being able to potentially 'kickstart' that ability into overdrive as necessary.

What's that? Lore actually helping gameplay?

Trolllllllllll!

1. I pray you have no hand in anything related to game design in your lifetime.

And I'd pray that you be disallowed from even playing Dark Millenium with your heathen ideals of "ignoring the lore to make gameplay streamlined".

2. You should really see the definition of trolling

The "definition of trolling" is making a post that is designed to encourage a negative reaction, allowing the "troll" to begin an argument to relieve their boredom or make them feel better about their belief in something.

So, pretty much what you've been doing actually.

Medics should heal. Not heal one race, not heal only 2, but heal entirely. medics should differ in usage and skills ( Apothecaries should heal less but pound out more damage because they are combat medics and not simply medics as you mentioned. ) however having apothecaries heal only marines would result in over saturation of marine players the likes of which the table top has today ( Hey you should work at GW they would love you there lol ).

You know what's funny? That you somehow think that having a specific class of healer that only enhances the inherent self-healing ability of one specific career path(because we've already been told that Space Marines will essentially be a "class" with three distinct career paths, not a "race" of their own) will result in some mythical "oversaturation".

They already know that marines will be overplayed now to balance that out steps outside canon may need to be taken or it will be Dark millennium online: space marines ahoy and no one wants that.

Yeahhh...they're actually projecting more people will be playing Eldar or Orks. Not Space Marines, since Space Marines are going to be a class, not a race.

No one would stick around that game long enough to care about any fluff it may produce and a great project will bite the dust because "fluff" and canon had to be observed 100%. PLEASE never design anything in terms of video games. You sound like you would make a kick-ass dark heresy DM/GM but stay away from the tech world.

Says you. People have been wanting a non-high fantasy/crummy MMO with a tech setting for awhile. This is looking to be the 'best fit' for many of them.

And people tend to "not stick around" games not because of "gameplay taking a backseat to lore" issues.
They do it because of balance issues or a lack of engaging content.

The less of your kind the farther we can advance.

And yet, using your criteria of "the canon has to take a backseat to ensure gameplay", I've made a perfectly acceptable scenario.

And that took me under five minutes to do. I've got far more of a career in game design than you do, I think.

Kanluwen wrote:And I'd pray that you be disallowed from even playing Dark Millenium with your heathen ideals of "ignoring the lore to make gameplay streamlined".

Woah, calm down now.

A small, minor, nitpicky change like this isn't "ignoring the lore".

Heathen! Heathen!

But seriously. There's nothing wrong with one specialty career advancement only synergizing with that class.

Kanluwen wrote:

happydude wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Oh look. It's another usage of "troll" as "I don't like you disagreeing with me!".

There's no real issue with having medics that will only be able to heal one particular race. Not when there's at least two other races within that faction who can heal everyone else.
Having Marine Apothecaries being a kind of "combat medic", dishing damage out left and right while only being able to heal his fellow Astartes(who would be in the same vicinity as him in terms of the combat) doesn't really pose a problem. Simply put: all Marines could have a weak self-healing ability based upon the damage they deal that the Apothecary can boost, merely by being present on the field with them.

Then you could have the Eldar/Imperial(likely Tech-Priest Adeptis Biologis) 'healer' type being able to do something similar for nearby non-Astartes.

For the "Disorder" Faction, something very similar could be done using Dark Eldar Haemonculi fighting with Orks, pumping the Orks full of combat drugs to keep them up and fighting.

Chaos Space Marines could have something similar to the standard Space Marines, but with a Sorcerer being able to potentially 'kickstart' that ability into overdrive as necessary.

What's that? Lore actually helping gameplay?

Trolllllllllll!

1. I pray you have no hand in anything related to game design in your lifetime.

And I'd pray that you be disallowed from even playing Dark Millenium with your heathen ideals of "ignoring the lore to make gameplay streamlined".

2. You should really see the definition of trolling

The "definition of trolling" is making a post that is designed to encourage a negative reaction, allowing the "troll" to begin an argument to relieve their boredom or make them feel better about their belief in something.

So, pretty much what you've been doing actually.

Medics should heal. Not heal one race, not heal only 2, but heal entirely. medics should differ in usage and skills ( Apothecaries should heal less but pound out more damage because they are combat medics and not simply medics as you mentioned. ) however having apothecaries heal only marines would result in over saturation of marine players the likes of which the table top has today ( Hey you should work at GW they would love you there lol ).

You know what's funny? That you somehow think that having a specific class of healer that only enhances the inherent self-healing ability of one specific career path(because we've already been told that Space Marines will essentially be a "class" with three distinct career paths, not a "race" of their own) will result in some mythical "oversaturation".

They already know that marines will be overplayed now to balance that out steps outside canon may need to be taken or it will be Dark millennium online: space marines ahoy and no one wants that.

Yeahhh...they're actually projecting more people will be playing Eldar or Orks. Not Space Marines, since Space Marines are going to be a class, not a race.

No one would stick around that game long enough to care about any fluff it may produce and a great project will bite the dust because "fluff" and canon had to be observed 100%. PLEASE never design anything in terms of video games. You sound like you would make a kick-ass dark heresy DM/GM but stay away from the tech world.

Says you. People have been wanting a non-high fantasy/crummy MMO with a tech setting for awhile. This is looking to be the 'best fit' for many of them.

And people tend to "not stick around" games not because of "gameplay taking a backseat to lore" issues.
They do it because of balance issues or a lack of engaging content.

The less of your kind the farther we can advance.

And yet, using your criteria of "the canon has to take a backseat to ensure gameplay", I've made a perfectly acceptable scenario.

And that took me under five minutes to do. I've got far more of a career in game design than you do, I think.

Newgrounds game design is not game design.

1. Gameplay IS the engaging content. WoW players could care less if a purple penguin was the last raid boss as long as the fight and dungeon were fun as hell
2. Space Marines were also never intended to be the dominating class of 40k and they figured balance would overtake, you think of ideals while I state fact and the future of this game ( which you cannot stand and go into neckbeard rage which is elOHel to the three of us reading this )
3. Your scenario is acceptable in your eyes and not in the eyes of the many which is why I say to avoid game design ( You and matt ward should be chums though lol )
4. If people played MMO's for the engaging content itself and lore then why is Ragnarok ( One of the most simple games out there right now ) Played the world over? And why would WAR fail when it had fluff down to a T? Your ideas are great on the tabletop yet would yield very little profit in the real world. Please realize that the Warhammer universe is VERY niche and the tabletop game much more so, and when making a MMO you need to create a title that would appeal to a BROAD area of gamers because in the end they will outnumber the enthusiasts while bringing their wallets. You seem to hear " blah blah blah youre all wrong gameplay iz bestest no fluffy booktalking" when what I have been trying to say is that fluff will appease the few fans while losing out on the bigger market. Money talks and no matter how far into your nerd rage you may fly ( or twirl as we assume ), you cannot deny that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

happydude wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Oh look. It's another usage of "troll" as "I don't like you disagreeing with me!".

There's no real issue with having medics that will only be able to heal one particular race. Not when there's at least two other races within that faction who can heal everyone else.
Having Marine Apothecaries being a kind of "combat medic", dishing damage out left and right while only being able to heal his fellow Astartes(who would be in the same vicinity as him in terms of the combat) doesn't really pose a problem. Simply put: all Marines could have a weak self-healing ability based upon the damage they deal that the Apothecary can boost, merely by being present on the field with them.

Then you could have the Eldar/Imperial(likely Tech-Priest Adeptis Biologis) 'healer' type being able to do something similar for nearby non-Astartes.

For the "Disorder" Faction, something very similar could be done using Dark Eldar Haemonculi fighting with Orks, pumping the Orks full of combat drugs to keep them up and fighting.

Chaos Space Marines could have something similar to the standard Space Marines, but with a Sorcerer being able to potentially 'kickstart' that ability into overdrive as necessary.

What's that? Lore actually helping gameplay?

Trolllllllllll!

1. I pray you have no hand in anything related to game design in your lifetime.

And I'd pray that you be disallowed from even playing Dark Millenium with your heathen ideals of "ignoring the lore to make gameplay streamlined".

2. You should really see the definition of trolling

The "definition of trolling" is making a post that is designed to encourage a negative reaction, allowing the "troll" to begin an argument to relieve their boredom or make them feel better about their belief in something.

So, pretty much what you've been doing actually.

Medics should heal. Not heal one race, not heal only 2, but heal entirely. medics should differ in usage and skills ( Apothecaries should heal less but pound out more damage because they are combat medics and not simply medics as you mentioned. ) however having apothecaries heal only marines would result in over saturation of marine players the likes of which the table top has today ( Hey you should work at GW they would love you there lol ).

You know what's funny? That you somehow think that having a specific class of healer that only enhances the inherent self-healing ability of one specific career path(because we've already been told that Space Marines will essentially be a "class" with three distinct career paths, not a "race" of their own) will result in some mythical "oversaturation".

They already know that marines will be overplayed now to balance that out steps outside canon may need to be taken or it will be Dark millennium online: space marines ahoy and no one wants that.

Yeahhh...they're actually projecting more people will be playing Eldar or Orks. Not Space Marines, since Space Marines are going to be a class, not a race.

No one would stick around that game long enough to care about any fluff it may produce and a great project will bite the dust because "fluff" and canon had to be observed 100%. PLEASE never design anything in terms of video games. You sound like you would make a kick-ass dark heresy DM/GM but stay away from the tech world.

Says you. People have been wanting a non-high fantasy/crummy MMO with a tech setting for awhile. This is looking to be the 'best fit' for many of them.

And people tend to "not stick around" games not because of "gameplay taking a backseat to lore" issues.
They do it because of balance issues or a lack of engaging content.

The less of your kind the farther we can advance.

And yet, using your criteria of "the canon has to take a backseat to ensure gameplay", I've made a perfectly acceptable scenario.

And that took me under five minutes to do. I've got far more of a career in game design than you do, I think.

And disallowing me from playing because of my ideals? Is that not right up there with your claim of "Stop it because you don't agree with me"? Ahh to be young and naive again...

1. Gameplay IS the engaging content. WoW players could care less if a purple penguin was the last raid boss as long as the fight and dungeon were fun as hell

So explain why PvP is the dominant balancing factor of WoW.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, right. Because that's the dominant content to players now.

2. Space Marines were also never intended to be the dominating class of 40k and they figured balance would overtake

Uh, what? Space Marines have pretty much always been the dominating race of 40k, simply by dint of they've had the most attention paid to them--which leads people to assume they're always "better".

you think of ideals while I state fact and the future of this game

So what's the winning lottery number for this week?
You can't be "stating fact" for a game that hasn't even entered an alpha build. The "future of this game" is that it's still in development.

( which you cannot stand and go into neckbeard rage which is elOHel to the three of us reading this )

"neckbeard rage" implies I care about your ideas. I don't. You want gameplay and you keep citing Warhammer Online as being an example of "lore makes games fail!". I'll get to that when I get to your 4th point though.

3. Your scenario is acceptable in your eyes and not in the eyes of the many which is why I say to avoid game design ( You and matt ward should be chums though lol )

My scenario is acceptable in far more eyes than you think.
As for Matt Ward...he does do good game design.
It's the fluff he has to work on.

4. If people played MMO's for the engaging content itself and lore then why is Ragnarok ( One of the most simple games out there right now ) Played the world over?

I had to look up what Ragnarok is. I guess it's just played the world over so much that it has no fame whatsoever!

And why would WAR fail when it had fluff down to a T?

Because there was far more damaging things to Warhammer Online than simply the fluff "overtaking gameplay".
-The system requirements for War were hefty to have people running at 'maximum capacity', which requires people to spend money.
-War has competition in the form of...oh, every other Fantasy MMORPG out there. There was nothing to really set War aside than the setting and it being PvP oriented.

Your ideas are great on the tabletop yet would yield very little profit in the real world. Please realize that the Warhammer universe is VERY niche and the tabletop game much more so, and when making a MMO you need to create a title that would appeal to a BROAD area of gamers because in the end they will outnumber the enthusiasts while bringing their wallets.

And when making a MMO you need to do more than "create a title that would appeal to a BROAD area of gamers". You need to, in this business, deal with "the big dog" of Warcraft.
You have to top the minimalistic system requirements they've put forward, you have to top the service they offer, etc.
Warhammer Online could not do that, not with a major expansion pack being announced shortly after War launched.

You seem to hear " blah blah blah youre all wrong gameplay iz bestest no fluffy booktalking" when what I have been trying to say is that fluff will appease the few fans while losing out on the bigger market.

No what I'm hearing is you think you have a clue as to what made Warhammer the "failure" it was, in the eyes of many Warcraft enthusiasts.

Money talks and no matter how far into your nerd rage you may fly ( or twirl as we assume ), you cannot deny that.

Oh look. You really did attempt to make a gay joke in there. How adorably predictable.


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P.S.--I love the "young and naive" comment when you're barely 4 years older than I am.

What weight the world has lain upon your shoulders!

Kanluwen wrote:Heathen! Heathen!

But seriously. There's nothing wrong with one specialty career advancement only synergizing with that class.

Unless Space Marines are a faction by themselves which cannot group with any other faction, there's plenty wrong with it.

Why should I want to be on an Apothecary's team if I'm playing, say, a techpriestess? I won't benefit from it, his skills won't effect me and won't have any benefit towards me personally, and if we have no Marines in our team he' just worthless trash that's taking up space for someone more useful. So feth him, he's not joining my team and I'm not joining his. Teams have limited numbers of slots, and I Don't want anyone who's completely and utterly useless to the team, which is mostly non-Marines.

So you've just created a class that is useless to most of the game. Also known as an underpowered class. Congratulations.

Kanluwen wrote:

1. Gameplay IS the engaging content. WoW players could care less if a purple penguin was the last raid boss as long as the fight and dungeon were fun as hell

So explain why PvP is the dominant balancing factor of WoW.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, right. Because that's the dominant content to players now.

2. Space Marines were also never intended to be the dominating class of 40k and they figured balance would overtake

Uh, what? Space Marines have pretty much always been the dominating race of 40k, simply by dint of they've had the most attention paid to them--which leads people to assume they're always "better".

you think of ideals while I state fact and the future of this game

So what's the winning lottery number for this week?
You can't be "stating fact" for a game that hasn't even entered an alpha build. The "future of this game" is that it's still in development.

( which you cannot stand and go into neckbeard rage which is elOHel to the three of us reading this )

"neckbeard rage" implies I care about your ideas. I don't. You want gameplay and you keep citing Warhammer Online as being an example of "lore makes games fail!". I'll get to that when I get to your 4th point though.

3. Your scenario is acceptable in your eyes and not in the eyes of the many which is why I say to avoid game design ( You and matt ward should be chums though lol )

My scenario is acceptable in far more eyes than you think.
As for Matt Ward...he does do good game design.
It's the fluff he has to work on.

4. If people played MMO's for the engaging content itself and lore then why is Ragnarok ( One of the most simple games out there right now ) Played the world over?

I had to look up what Ragnarok is. I guess it's just played the world over so much that it has no fame whatsoever!

And why would WAR fail when it had fluff down to a T?

Because there was far more damaging things to Warhammer Online than simply the fluff "overtaking gameplay".
-The system requirements for War were hefty to have people running at 'maximum capacity', which requires people to spend money.
-War has competition in the form of...oh, every other Fantasy MMORPG out there. There was nothing to really set War aside than the setting and it being PvP oriented.

Your ideas are great on the tabletop yet would yield very little profit in the real world. Please realize that the Warhammer universe is VERY niche and the tabletop game much more so, and when making a MMO you need to create a title that would appeal to a BROAD area of gamers because in the end they will outnumber the enthusiasts while bringing their wallets.

And when making a MMO you need to do more than "create a title that would appeal to a BROAD area of gamers". You need to, in this business, deal with "the big dog" of Warcraft.
You have to top the minimalistic system requirements they've put forward, you have to top the service they offer, etc.
Warhammer Online could not do that, not with a major expansion pack being announced shortly after War launched.

You seem to hear " blah blah blah youre all wrong gameplay iz bestest no fluffy booktalking" when what I have been trying to say is that fluff will appease the few fans while losing out on the bigger market.

No what I'm hearing is you think you have a clue as to what made Warhammer the "failure" it was, in the eyes of many Warcraft enthusiasts.

Money talks and no matter how far into your nerd rage you may fly ( or twirl as we assume ), you cannot deny that.

Oh look. You really did attempt to make a gay joke in there. How adorably predictable.


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P.S.--I love the "young and naive" comment when you're barely 4 years older than I am.

What weight the world has lain upon your shoulders!

PVP= gameplay, not fluff. Thank you for aiding my point
If fluff was the main point, space marines would not be the majority of players. Thank you for aiding my point
I state facts based upon MMO sales and successes while you can only fire back with poor jokes
DMO will require a nice upgrade for most players in the form of pc parts
If WAR would attempt to cut out and alter the canon slightly they could have created something original that people of all walks could have enjoyed ( as you said nothing set it apart aside from setting and pvp )
That was not a gay joke but a poke at how you dance around and attempt to create reality out of your own opinions, although it shows where your mindset is mainly at lol
Again by young and naive, I meant your attitude,but please keep this coming, your name is becoming an office joke lol

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Heathen! Heathen!

But seriously. There's nothing wrong with one specialty career advancement only synergizing with that class.

Unless Space Marines are a faction by themselves which cannot group with any other faction, there's plenty wrong with it.

Why should I want to be on an Apothecary's team if I'm playing, say, a techpriestess? I won't benefit from it, his skills won't effect me and won't have any benefit towards me personally, and if we have no Marines in our team he' just worthless trash that's taking up space for someone more useful. So feth him, he's not joining my team and I'm not joining his. Teams have limited numbers of slots, and I Don't want anyone who's completely and utterly useless to the team, which is mostly non-Marines.

So you've just created a class that is useless to most of the game. Also known as an underpowered class. Congratulations.

No, I've created a specialty of a class that is "useless" with one particular skill to most of the classes around him. Even if his self-healing boost won't affect your class or specialty, he very well could have something similar in the form of combat stimms affecting everyone.

This isn't the first time this has happened, nor will it every be the last.

And yet, he still has supposed team-support abilities which do not have any effect on most of the team. Whereas we can instead get someone who DOES have an effect on most of the team with their support abilities.

Therefor he is useless to the team. There's no point of having a team that's made up of differing factions because that would just make the team weaker. And for what? Some twiddly, inconsequential, piece of fluff which doesn't really even matter in the lung run? This is no defining trait of the Astartes, it's just a minor detail that should be altered for the sake of better gameplay and encouraging better teamwork.

Melissia wrote:And yet, he still has supposed team-support abilities which do not have any effect on most of the team. Whereas we can instead get someone who DOES have an effect on most of the team with their support abilities.

You'll have an easier time taking down an M1 Abrams with a spoon then getting this guy to admit his mistakes or listen to reason, just a heads up.

Melissia wrote:And yet, he still has supposed team-support abilities which do not have any effect on most of the team. Whereas we can instead get someone who DOES have an effect on most of the team with their support abilities.

He would have one ability which "do not have any effect on most of the team".
I don't see complaints being put forward about Hunters in Warcraft taking pets that boost Physical damage, but not Magical damage. The role does not necessarily mean that any effect he would have would affect the entire team at once anyways. If the Apothecary specialty was made to just stand in the back and throw needles at the other Space Marines, then yes. It would be a crummy specialty.

If he were, however, to be a specialty that was standing toe to toe with the other melee classes and granting them poisoned attacks while giving the tanking Marine spec a healing boost--where's the problem there?

Therefor he is useless to the team. There's no point of having a team that's made up of differing factions because that would just make the team weaker. And for what? Some twiddly, inconsequential, piece of fluff which doesn't really even matter in the lung run? This is no defining trait of the Astartes, it's just a minor detail that should be altered for the sake of better gameplay and encouraging better teamwork.

What twiddly, inconsequential piece of fluff? You mean that whole "stimms that Astartes take could kill lesser individuals" bit?

I'm sure they could get around that with "This does X for Astartes, and Y for non-Astartes" without completely breaking balance or fluff.

And it'd still be completely pointless to do so.

Just say in the little fluff tidbits for the power that he uses various stimms designed for the physical features of his various allies. There, done. No need to have separate powers.

Melissia wrote:And it'd still be completely pointless to do so.

Just say in the little fluff tidbits for the power that he uses various stimms designed for the physical features of his various allies. There, done. No need to have separate powers.

Who says it'd be completely pointless to do so?

Astartes gaining a health boost, while everyone else gains a 'combat high' resulting in faster ability usage/regeneration doesn't seem too pointless, now does it?

Kanluwen wrote:Who says it'd be completely pointless to do so?

*looks up*

Me.

Let me re-iterate in case I was confusing on my previous statements:

Your idea is to me nothing more than pointless drivel which will have no benefit to the game and can be hand-waved in the fluff to make it irrelevant (just like I noted above). It is completely and wholly without merit and completely unnecessary.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree, because I think most of the class only abilities that have been implemented in Warcraft which have very similar effects to what I put forward are just as useful.

It depends on the size of the group, I would say.

Yes, we will.

Besides, you know full well by now that I don't see WoW as anything more than, at BEST, a horribly mediocre game.

There's no doubt about that "horrible mediocrity". The sad part is though that most companies, gamers, and reviewers will be using it as the measuring stick for years to come.

Yes, to the detriment of the genre as a whole.

At least it's Vigil doing Dark Millenium.
"Darksiders" was definitely a nice, refreshing take on a dying genre.

Kanluwen wrote:At least it's Vigil doing Dark Millenium.
"Darksiders" was definitely a nice, refreshing take on a dying genre.

I'll agree to that, Darksiders was fun. Did you have a chance to see the new Space Marine trailer?

Yes. And it's definitely shaping up well.

Kanluwen wrote:Yes. And it's definitely shaping up well.

I cannot wait to go all out and slaughter some greenskins DMC style with a chainsword!
Also added you to friends. I prefer to associate with those whose opinions differ from my own as it keeps me sharper and on my toes ;p

Happydude, for future reference, please learn to be quiet when it is needed. Your attitude in your last post was quite calmer than your ... extremely annoying, attitude earlier on. And, not being mean, but if you act as that anymore I will have to ask you to stop posting on my thread. Thank you.

We all know everything is a tech priest anyways....lawl

Can't wait for more info to be released, and I hope the Sisters Of Battle will be a playable class in the IoM race.

Not to fire up your previous argument or anything, but your both wrong XD

A good game designer is marked by being able to balance the issues you were talking about to create a whole. Not by focussing on one or the other and building the rest around it.

And as with everything ever released, haters gonna hate.

As for vigil making it, I'm not so sure. They don't have any experience with MMO's on this scale, nor was their last game all that succesfull (or good). It had a horrible combat system for instance.

Anyway, I'm wondering about something.... Since this is the grimdark mmo game. You think they'll be giving it a splosh of the old grit filter? Or will we be seeing vibrant colours and shaders none the less?

That probably depends on the area we're talking about.

Chaos areas definitely would have vibrant colors for example. Eldar areas would be clean, and not gritty. Ork areas would be dirty, but they'd still have vibrant colors (bright reds, bright blues, yellows, and shiny metallics). The Imperium would at least have untarnished shiny metallics on important structures, such as religious structures (gilding and all that), as well as careful attention and care to iconography and any statues of the Emperor.

Soladrin wrote:Anyway, I'm wondering about something.... Since this is the grimdark mmo game. You think they'll be giving it a splosh of the old grit filter? Or will we be seeing vibrant colours and shaders none the less?

Vibrant colours and shaders. For same reason TV retail stores crank the brightness and contrast ( Even though it makes the picture worse )

Getting grimdark across via artistic design... Unless they have some very talented staff ....
I think they'll do it via story like.... "oh the Space Marines exterminatus 50 planets to kill 1 daemon " or something like that :'D

I desire weapon/armor modifcations in place of weapons/armor crafting.

You have a boltgun - well, you can customize the bits and pieces. Reinforce the outer plating to increase durability, add a scope that increases the accuracy/range, swap out standard magazines for drums, new pistol grip for better handling, new barrel for more impactful hits, and maybe different kinds of ammo, and whatever blessings, seals, and runes that can be engraved on the weapon itself.

Standard crafting has no place in a game.

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happydude wrote:

crimsonfist832 wrote:Happydude, for future reference, please learn to be quiet when it is needed. Your attitude in your last post was quite calmer than your ... extremely annoying, attitude earlier on. And, not being mean, but if you act as that anymore I will have to ask you to stop posting on my thread. Thank you.

Good luck my friend Neither online nor in reality would I listen to you so your text/breath are wasted on the effort. But hey it's a forum so type whatever you like if it pleases you bud ;p

gak, I agree with Kanluwen entirely.

happydude, you said you wanted factions that are sworn enemies to be allied together. You don't give two gaks about background or fluff.

Your argument is wrong, you want WoW: but 40K!

Having a debate with someone like you is like fighting a crackhead. You'll just keep stuttering and getting back up no matter how many times I knock you down.

Karon wrote:gak, I agree with Kanluwen entirely.

happydude, you said you wanted factions that are sworn enemies to be allied together. You don't give two gaks about background or fluff.

Your argument is wrong, you want WoW: but 40K!

Having a debate with someone like you is like fighting a crackhead. You'll just keep stuttering and getting back up no matter how many times I knock you down.

I'll slow it down because you seem to have a difficult time understand sentences past the fourth word.

Main game: All fluff without damaging game playability and
PvP: As per usual pvp ( make it creative with modes and such )
FFA PvP: Any faction vs any faction

I meant it should be there as a separate mode, not in the main story entire my child. Refusing a mode where anyone can team with anyone for the sake of sole fun without affecting the main storyline at all would be the same as refusing to team with a guard player for a friendly 2 vs 2 pickup game at your FLGS simply because your Necrons would "never do so" in the fluff. Very poor attitude my friend. You're the exact type of person that keeps newer players and those curious into tabletop games far away from ever picking up a box. Realize that Fluff zealots like yourself are the exact same as happy-go-lucky raiders and grinders in WoW, simply opposite ends of the spectrum. Knock me down... lmfao... That would make my day lol... 99.9% of people on this site are happy fun loving nerds who enjoy our hobby, you and your ilk fill the other .1%. You my friend,and all those like you, are "That Guy".


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Karon wrote:gak, I agree with Kanluwen entirely.

happydude, you said you wanted factions that are sworn enemies to be allied together. You don't give two gaks about background or fluff.

Your argument is wrong, you want WoW: but 40K!

Having a debate with someone like you is like fighting a crackhead. You'll just keep stuttering and getting back up no matter how many times I knock you down.

FYI: I don't want you to like me, you will not like me, however I will always say what I have to say, and you will not like me for it.

Can we please stop the personal attacks? I mean all of you.

It's kinda uncomfortable to post in here right now.

Melissia wrote:Can we please stop the personal attacks? I mean all of you.

It's kinda uncomfortable to post in here right now.

Agreed. Karon and Kanluwen, you are as entitled to your opinions as I am and regardless of what our opinions may be they will not alter the final product of the game so this debate is pointless and shallow. *extends hand*

happydude wrote:

Melissia wrote:Can we please stop the personal attacks? I mean all of you.

It's kinda uncomfortable to post in here right now.

Agreed. Karon and Kanluwen, you are as entitled to your opinions as I am and regardless of what our opinions may be they will not alter the final product of the game so this debate is pointless and shallow. *extends hand*

Some unneeded content removed by the MOD team


I trust the game developers don't want to make the game you envision - WoW: Warhammer 40,000.

happydude wrote:

Agreed. Karon and Kanluwen, you are as entitled to your opinions as I am and regardless of what our opinions may be they will not alter the final product of the game so this debate is pointless and shallow. *extends hand*

A fine sentiment and words to live post by.. especially in this thread from here on in.

So....5 pages with nothing new? Just insults eh? *sigh* ok this thread is finally dead

Of course there's nothing new, KC.

They're still in development on the game. We're not going to see anything till next year, this Winter might see us getting some more info though.

The only info we have to go on is stuff that was from E3 2010 and Gamescom 2010. There's still very little info on the game atm and hopefully with the upcoming con's this year hopefully they will release some more info on the game.

I believe they will do a good job with it

E3 2011 seems to be the next thing.