If you were the person responsible for making the Warhammer 40000 starter set, what would you put in it?

Ghazgkull and Yarrick might be a bit high profile to put into a Starter set. I would switch them out for a generic IG Commissar (or Platoon) and Ork Warboss in Mega Armour. Vehicles, likewise, shouldnt be much bigger than bikes or small walkers (Killa Kanz). The amount of plastic that goes into a Battle Wagon and three Chimeras would drive the set's cost through the roof, as well as being very boring to have 3 of the exact same Chimera with no other options. Personally for Armageddon (I like the idea, just not quite the list) I would put in:

Steel Legion:
- Command Squad
- 2 Infantry Platoons
- 1 Armored Sentinel

Orks:
- Ork Warboss in Mega Armour
- 5 Nobz with normal weapons (but arms are interchangable with current Nobz kit)
- 30 Boyz with Sluggas and CHoppas, with 3 Big Shootas per 10 boyz.

This would be a good starting point for their respective armies.

Two hordeish armies is a bad idea.

I think it's best do 1 horde one elite. (granted genestealers didn't help.)

I was going to put down my idea for a War for Armageddon starter set, but I don't feasibly see how they could put in two Chimeras in one kit. Figure something closer to one platoon (two infantry, one command squad, possibly heavy weapons squad), a Commissar lord, and an armored sentinel or two. Orks would largely have what they have in Black Reach, but maybe a mega armored warboss instead.

Some historical battle between Imperial Guard and Tyranids. I'd try and give either side a vehicle and a MC.

*Sweeps SMs under the rug*

DKK VS Necrons like the Dead Men Walking book. It must happen!

or something out of the Damocles Crusade for a change of pace. Tau VS Orks or a SM chapter would also be good.

What about eldar vs IG? I don't know much about eldar, but they are an elite army, and certainly are cool looking. A good contrast to Imperial Guard.

Plastic Wraithguards would definately make me buy an Eldar VS anything starter set.

Well, Since it is a starter set, I would try to pack in as many elements of the game as possible. I would also try to use different forces to the current set, so vanilla SM and Orks are out. I would then try to choose armies that are fairly Iconic, yet do not require huge arrays of special rules to play. This eliminates Tyranids, Inquisition, Necrons and Demons.

So I am left with:
Imperial Guard
Eldar
Varient Marine Dex's
Dark Eldar
Chaos Marines
Tau

Eldar and Dark Eldar are rather unforgiving, so they are out. This leaves only Chaos Marines as the Villain Race, and because I do not want to have two power-armoured forces, I may eliminate marine varients. This leaves Tau and Guard as the potential protagonists. I choose Guard, because they are "army-men", which adds some sympathetic apeal.

Now I have to decide what units to include, keeping in mind the goal of maximizing variety and exposure. Large Vehicles are unfeasable, as they take up to much space, reducing the number of other units drastically. After a bit of consideration, I settle on the following list:

Chaos Marines:
Demon Prince of Tzeentch: adds both a monster and a Psyker to the box.
Chaos Marine Squad (10): for basic infantry
Raptor Squad (5): add in jump Infantry+deepstrike
Biker Squad (3): Add in bikes

Imperial Guard:
Lord Commissar
Infantry Platoon: adding an array of Heavy weapons and Infantry
-Platoon Command Squad(5)
-Infantry Squad(10)x2
-Heavy Weapons Squad (3)
Sentinal with Multilaser: Adds in a vehicle to the set, and allows for scout/outflank
Rough Riders (5): Add in some cavalry

So, the only unit types that have been missed are Jetbikes, transports, and other vehicles. Both armies are quite radically different in style, and both are fairly good starting forces.

Tyranids are still pretty straightforward to play, as well as being the iconic "Zerg of 40k" (yes I know the Zergs came from them. Still, that's how the general public sees it anyways). DE and Eldar might be a bit too much. The former has alot more special rules than Tyranids while the latter has a few unit combinations that might make it hard for beginners. Marines in general should be outed imo, give the other factions a chance.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Plastic Wraithguards would definately make me buy an Eldar VS anything starter set.

And this is one of the major issues with wishlisting and starter sets.

Their goal isn't to make current players buy the starter boxes to get one specific unit and then sell off everything else.

Their goal is to have a..y'know, starter set. They want you to be introduced to the various oddities of the rules

There's a big reason why Marines are always involved(and always will be. Sorry, but it's pretty much a fact that you're going to see Marines of some flavor involved. Likely, you'll never see Chaos Marines vs whatever in a box but you might at some point). That reason simply is that they've got an example of pretty much every unit type out there.

As much as I dislike that fact, I would have to agree. However Fantasy had limited success with their starter sets, which routinely change with each edition.

Because Fantasy really doesn't have any one iconic race like the Astartes.

The closest they've got is the Empire or High Elves.

I think that the Chaos Space Marines .vs. Imperial Guard would be a good starter type set.

Chaos:
Terminator lord
Demon Prince
1 squad of regular marines
1 group of Khorne berzerkers
1 group of Plague marines (in plastic!)

IG:
Lord Commisar
30 regular guardsmen
2 Heavy weapons team
1 Leman Russ, or basilisk

Gives a bit of all the basic situations to learn for new players

Guard are pretty much never going to happen, especially any build with any form of tank.

A Sentinel and some Stormtroopers? Maybe.
Ogryns? More likely.

But tanks are definitely out.

Too bad they got rid of promotions. I remember back when I started that if you got certain items (like a battle force, a few blisters and the core hardback rulebook) you got a discount on the items as a "starter force". While the current Set is better value than what you paid for, the older Battle for Macragg might have been a better format. In giving the player one or two troop choices, but not really any semblance of an army, it really helps to encourage them to go explore other possibilites. Giving them a full Ork and SM army pretty much commits them to these two forces, since who'd want to spend another 100 or so on more models when you've already gotten a good army in your hands?

Kanluen wrote:Guard are pretty much never going to happen, especially any build with any form of tank.

A Sentinel and some Stormtroopers? Maybe.
Ogryns? More likely.

But tanks are definitely out.

Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

Personaly I'd like to see an IG vs Nidz set.

Three Chimeras and a Battlewagon in the starter set?

No, I don't see that happening.

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Guard are pretty much never going to happen, especially any build with any form of tank.

A Sentinel and some Stormtroopers? Maybe.
Ogryns? More likely.

But tanks are definitely out.

Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

Personally I'd like to see an IG vs Nidz set.

I like to function as a sort of ceiling fan to the balloons carrying the hopes and dreams of everyone in these wishlisting threads.

Plus, it gives me something to do while I put the finishing touches on my own idea for starter sets.

Kanluwen wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluen wrote:Guard are pretty much never going to happen, especially any build with any form of tank.

A Sentinel and some Stormtroopers? Maybe.
Ogryns? More likely.

But tanks are definitely out.

Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

Personally I'd like to see an IG vs Nidz set.

I like to function as a sort of ceiling fan to the balloons carrying the hopes and dreams of everyone in these wishlisting threads.

Plus, it gives me something to do while I put the finishing touches on my own idea for starter sets.

So I've noticed.
Conversely,what are your own ideas for a starter set?

Battle for .............. (Whatever the name would be)

Space Marines (Sorry, but they're easy to learn):
1x Chaplain (100 Points)
10x Tactical Marines w/ ML and Flamer (170 Points)
5x Scouts w/ CCW (75 Points)
1x Rhino w/ Storm Bolter (40 Points)
5x Assault Marines (100 Points)
Total for Space Marines = 485 Points

Tau Empire
1x Crisis Suit Shas'el w/ PR and MP, Targeting Array (92 Points)
12x Fire Warriors (120 Points)
10x Kroot Carnivores (80 Points)
1x Piranha Skimmer (60 Points)
3x Stealth Suits (90 Points)
Total for Tau Empire = 442 Points

All of the models would be unique to the set and come like the AOBR models that are easier to put together.

FITZZ wrote:
Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

He's doing what I'm doing and figuring it out to be realistic - some of the ideas here would work, while some (like the post a few above mine which is basically two battleforces) probably would not. Oh, in a perfect world I would get half an armored company for $90 but I don't want to wishlist too hard here!

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluen wrote:Guard are pretty much never going to happen, especially any build with any form of tank.

A Sentinel and some Stormtroopers? Maybe.
Ogryns? More likely.

But tanks are definitely out.

Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

Personally I'd like to see an IG vs Nidz set.

I like to function as a sort of ceiling fan to the balloons carrying the hopes and dreams of everyone in these wishlisting threads.

Plus, it gives me something to do while I put the finishing touches on my own idea for starter sets.

So I've noticed.
Conversely,what are your own ideas for a starter set?

Well, it would require a major reshuffling of GW ideas/behavior.
But...
Think of the old D&D "Adventure Modules".
Each starter set would be a self-contained "campaign"(namely: the preliminary stages before an actual pivotal moment in 40k/Fantasy lore. Like "The Nimbosan Infiltration" details the Raven Guard's preliminary efforts to sabotage and disrupt the Tau Empire's acquisition of Nimbosa).

But it doesn't just end there. Oh no. The starter sets each detail a series of 'historical' battles, and use the forces that are included within the box.
Going back to "The Nimbosan Infiltration" as an example, we'd see something like:

Raven Guard: 1x Shadow-Captain Matthias(Scout armor equipped Captain armed with a sniper rifle).
10x 'Shadowstalkers'(Scouts with Sniper Rifles).
1x Shadow-Captain Korvydae and 10x 'Shadow Talons'(Tactical Marines equipped with a Heavy Bolter and Meltagun).

Brightsword's Cadre: 1x Commander 'Brightsword' (XV-8 Crisis Suit equipped commander, plasma rifle and missile pod)
2x XV-8 Crisis Suits equipped like Brightsword, and given as a bodyguard.
1x Shas'ui 'Dawnstrike'(Pathfinder equipped with an experimental rail rifle) and 7x Pathfinders armed with Pulse Carbines.

Now, it's a relatively low model count yes.
But that's a good thing, since it's meant to be the size of(at best) a vehicle like the Leman Russ or Devilfish box.
Add in some terrain like a wrecked Stealth Suit that the Tau and Raven Guard are trying to recover due to information contained within, a few Tau styled walls, etc and you get a neat little thing.

And what's more? If done properly, it introduces you to a specific faction in such a way that it doesn't just cram that faction down your throat. Since neither force is really a 'legal' force, it comes down to what grabs your attention and your interest--not simply "the cheapest way to play".

Sisters of Battle vs. Biel Tan Eldar.

Canoness
5 Celestians
2*10 Battle Sisters
10 Seraphim
Repressor

Autarch
10 Howling Banshees
2*10 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent

~650 points per side.

Squats vs. Slann

/ducks

Brother SRM wrote:

FITZZ wrote:
Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

He's doing what I'm doing and figuring it out to be realistic - some of the ideas here would work, while some (like the post a few above mine which is basically two battleforces) probably would not. Oh, in a perfect world I would get half an armored company for $90 but I don't want to wishlist too hard here!

This. A lot of people in this thread seem to be less into designing a starter set, and more into designing an expansion pack for two. I just have to laugh whenever someone suggusts putting in a tank. Although a starter definately needs 1-2 vehicles, taks would just be too big to put in one. Looking at Black Reach/Island of Blood, A starter will contain maybe 3 sprues of models. A tank will probably take up one by itself, and even then, quality will suffer.

Viable Vehicles:
Warbuggy
Vyper
Piranha
Landspeeder
Sentinal
Dreadnaught
etc.

All these vehicles would have 2 or 3 main pieces, plus a couple small ones for feet, thrusters, and crew.

For Example, the Sentinel

Cabin Front
Cabin Rear
2x Legs
Multilaser
2x Feet
Driver

Or the Warbuggy

Body
Undercarriage
4x Tires
Driver
Gun
Gunner

Both these involve only slightly more parts than the Black Reach Dreadnaught, and these pieces are small.

I should also add that, if it were me, I would do one of each of the units contained within as something nice and uniquely available to that box.

Like the Shadowstalkers and Shadow-Captain Matthias would, rather than the standard Scout-Snipers which have the NVGs pulled down over their eyes and the cloaks just hung about them, have the hoods of their cloaks pulled up fully about their heads and have Raven Guard insignia on their aimed sniper rifles(which would be set up just like the standard Scout-Sniper kit) or Dawnstrike and his Pathfinders would have camo cloaks hung about their frames and look as though they're securing the interior of a building rather than the generic 'action!' pose of the standard ones.

Tau vs Chaos Space Marines

Good vs Evil. Horde(ish) vs Elite. Shooting vs Assault. And you've got some Power Armour in there so the 12 year olds will be happy.

decrease the price to 50 dollars again and I will be happy. Damn it GW!
Nonultramarines vs an Alien Race.

Flashman wrote:Tau vs Chaos Space Marines

Good vs Evil. Horde(ish) vs Elite. Shooting vs Assault. And you've got some Power Armour in there so the 12 year olds will be happy.

I love how "Power Armour"="12 year olds".

I see more kids playing Tyranids and Dark Eldar than I do Marines locally. Marines(Chaos, Space Wolf, etc) tend towards being 'veterans'.

Chaos vs Eldar
Undivided Chaos Forces
Chaos Lord with Terminator armour. Weapons can be swaped with those in the Terminator Lord box set
10 Chaos Marines with 2 assault Weapons
10 Chaos Marines with 2 assault Weapons
4 Chaos marines with Heavy weapons and a Champion
Eldar Forces
Farseer
20 Guardians inculding Support Platforms
3 Jet-bikes
5 Striking Scorpions

Kanluwen wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluen wrote:Guard are pretty much never going to happen, especially any build with any form of tank.

A Sentinel and some Stormtroopers? Maybe.
Ogryns? More likely.

But tanks are definitely out.

Psst...Kan,note the tittle on the thread mate...it's "If you made the starter set"..not "What would probably go in a new starter set",I agree with your observations mind you...there will never be a starter set that doesn't include SM...ever,but what the heck...let's just "bluesky" here.

Personally I'd like to see an IG vs Nidz set.

I like to function as a sort of ceiling fan to the balloons carrying the hopes and dreams of everyone in these wishlisting threads.

Plus, it gives me something to do while I put the finishing touches on my own idea for starter sets.

So I've noticed.
Conversely,what are your own ideas for a starter set?

Well, it would require a major reshuffling of GW ideas/behavior.
But...
Think of the old D&D "Adventure Modules".
Each starter set would be a self-contained "campaign"(namely: the preliminary stages before an actual pivotal moment in 40k/Fantasy lore. Like "The Nimbosan Infiltration" details the Ravenguard's preliminary efforts to sabotage and disrupt the Tau Empire's acquisition of Nimbosa).

But it doesn't just end there. Oh no. The starter sets each detail a series of 'historical' battles, and use the forces that are included within the box.
Going back to "The Nimbosan Infiltration" as an example, we'd see something like:

Raven Guard: 1x Shadow-Captain Matthias(Scout armor equipped Captain armed with a sniper rifle).
10x 'Shadowstalkers'(Scouts with Sniper Rifles).
1x Shadow-Captain Korvydae and 10x 'Shadow Talons'(Tactical Marines equipped with a Heavy Bolter and Meltagun).

Brightsword's Cadre: 1x Commander 'Brightsword' (XV-8 Crisis Suit equipped commander, plasma rifle and missile pod)
2x XV-8 Crisis Suits equipped like Brightsword, and given as a bodyguard.
1x Shas'ui 'Dawnstrike'(Pathfinder equipped with an experimental rail rifle) and 7x Pathfinders armed with Pulse Carbines.

Now, it's a relatively low model count yes.
But that's a good thing, since it's meant to be the size of(at best) a vehicle like the Leman Russ or Devilfish box.
Add in some terrain like a wrecked Stealth Suit that the Tau and Raven Guard are trying to recover due to information contained within, a few Tau styled walls, etc and you get a neat little thing.

And what's more? If done properly, it introduces you to a specific faction in such a way that it doesn't just cram that faction down your throat. Since neither force is really a 'legal' force, it comes down to what grabs your attention and your interest--not simply "the cheapest way to play".

That's actually a pretty cool idea Kan.
Incidentally I hope you know I wasn't taking a jab at you with my comment before.

I know, hence why you weren't smitten by the jabs of my rapier ire!

Oh, and of course the best part about doing it like that?

Every few months, GW shops and FLGSes could rotate which 'campaign module' they play through with the playerbase!

So, let's say January is Nimbosa and then in March they rotate to 'The Cleansing of Kathur' with the men of the Cadian Imperial Guard beginning to purge a Plague Zombie(led by a few Death Guard/Plague Bearers) infested shrineworld.

It benefits the community, as a whole, not just starting out players.

Grey Knights vs Daemons of Chaos!

Slarg232 wrote:Grey Knights vs Daemons of Chaos!

Grey Knights
Inquistitor Lord
10 Grey Knights
10 Stormtroopers
1 Grey Knight Drednought
Daemons
Hearld of Khorne
Hearld of Tzeentch
10 Horrors
8 Blood Letters
5 Seekers

Kanluwen wrote:I know, hence why you weren't smitten by the jabs of my rapier ire!

Oh, and of course the best part about doing it like that?

Every few months, GW shops and FLGSes could rotate which 'campaign module' they play through with the playerbase!

So, let's say January is Nimbosa and then in March they rotate to 'The Cleansing of Kathur' with the men of the Cadian Imperial Guard beginning to purge a Plague Zombie(led by a few Death Guard/Plague Bearers) infested shrineworld.

It benefits the community, as a whole, not just starting out players.

I really like this concept a lot.

Then maybe we should spam it to Games Workshop

Kanluwen wrote:Then maybe we should spam it to Games Workshop

If only they listened.

FITZZ wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Then maybe we should spam it to Games Workshop

If only they listened.

You just have to know who to talk to, I think

Who's that?
I have some choice words for them.

I say we go outside Warhammer World and protest until they let us talk to someone senior enough to use your idea, Kanluwen. However, I still think we'll need one larger starter set in addition to your smaller supplements. Maybe find a way to tie them together somehow.....hmmm...

I still think a Starter set with only 1 or 2 squads worth of models would be a better set than full on armies. That way the players are in now way committed to any one force. However it has a low incentive for veterans to buy it.

ChrisWWII wrote:I say we go outside Warhammer World and protest until they let us talk to someone senior enough to use your idea, Kanluwen. However, I still think we'll need one larger starter set in addition to your smaller supplements. Maybe find a way to tie them together somehow.....hmmm...

See, that was something that I tried to think on at first.

And then I realized it would just be easier for each of the 'campaign packs' to have a book available separately that details one specific force during the "big" part of that campaign.

Have an associated 'bundle' that one can buy online or order through a GW shop, and they've got a damned effective set-up there.

Space marines vs dark eldar
Librarian
Dreadnought
10 dudes
5 assault dudes
5 devastators(?)

Archon with... Whatever
Talos
10 warriors with a dark lance
Beastmaster with something
Hellions

I would absolutely, 100% refrain from putting the Dark Eldar in a starter set at this point.

Especially against Marines of all things.

Samus_aran 115 wrote:Space marines vs dark eldar
Librarian
Dreadnought
10 dudes
5 assault dudes
5 devastators(?)

Archon with... Whatever
Talos
10 warriors with a dark lance
Beastmaster with something
Hellions

So 3rd edition starter set redone with better minis basically.

FITZZ wrote:

Samus_aran 115 wrote:Space marines vs dark eldar
Librarian
Dreadnought
10 dudes
5 assault dudes
5 devastators(?)

Archon with... Whatever
Talos
10 warriors with a dark lance
Beastmaster with something
Hellions

So 3rd edition starter set redone with better minis basically.

I haven't seen what's exactly in that set, but sure I thought a librarian
Would be cool, instead of a captain. Captains are dull.
To be honest, the dark eldar would always lose this battle, especially without transports. Maybe throw a voidraveb in there

Samus_aran 115 wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Samus_aran 115 wrote:Space marines vs dark eldar
Librarian
Dreadnought
10 dudes
5 assault dudes
5 devastators(?)

Archon with... Whatever
Talos
10 warriors with a dark lance
Beastmaster with something
Hellions

So 3rd edition starter set redone with better minis basically.

I haven't seen what's exactly in that set, but sure I thought a librarian
Would be cool, instead of a captain. Captains are dull.
To be honest, the dark eldar would always lose this battle, especially without transports. Maybe throw a voidraven in there

3rd Ed box contained a SM tactical squad, a Land Speeder (IIRC),20 DE ,plastic ruins,those goofy trees and the BBB + dice and whippy sticks.

Why not pick a certain campaign and put two armies up against each other like Tau and Eldar. Maybe even have some who are facing a little bit of everything (probably be rather expensive considering how many different armies would be in it) but still would give the players a taste of how each army plays firsthand rather than finding out as you play them how your army does against it.

Orkymike wrote:Why not pick a certain campaign and put two armies up against each other like Tau and Eldar. Maybe even have some who are facing a little bit of everything (probably be rather expensive considering how many different armies would be in it) but still would give the players a taste of how each army plays firsthand rather than finding out as you play them how your army does against it.

Because, historically, those two armies have never come into conflict with each other.

The Eldar have, in fact, gone out of their way to aid and protect the Tau.

Kanluwen wrote:

Orkymike wrote:Why not pick a certain campaign and put two armies up against each other like Tau and Eldar. Maybe even have some who are facing a little bit of everything (probably be rather expensive considering how many different armies would be in it) but still would give the players a taste of how each army plays firsthand rather than finding out as you play them how your army does against it.

Because, historically, those two armies have never come into conflict with each other.

The Eldar have, in fact, gone out of their way to aid and protect the Tau.

hmmm i was unaware of this. It would stand to reason why almost all the starter sets have humans in it. its true humans are like a virus spreading out and taking over everything they can. and that would cause alot of other races to be angry with them. thus understandable why they would be the center of the universe for the stories.

It doesn't make sense to have two "alien" armies in the box. Most new players like having something human to relate to. I know that's what attracted me to Marines in the first place, and the human element helped me decide on starting Guard.

Alright. why not have a starter set with imperial guard and orks then? why should space marines get all the attention?

Orkymike wrote:Alright. why not have a starter set with imperial guard and orks then? why should space marines get all the attention?

I'm pretty sure Kanluwen and I suggested the same thing - an Armageddon starter set would be the coolest damn thing. Steel Legion Imperial Guard and Orks would be badass.

My starter set would just be a box with $500 bucks inside, with a note saying, "We felt bad."

Brother SRM wrote:

Orkymike wrote:Alright. why not have a starter set with imperial guard and orks then? why should space marines get all the attention?

I'm pretty sure Kanluwen and I suggested the same thing - an Armageddon starter set would be the coolest damn thing. Steel Legion Imperial Guard and Orks would be badass.

I think they'd want to stick with Cadians, simply because they're well-known and have some major plasticage to work from.

There's fluff that would be easy to work from for that too!
In fact one of the Black Library novels details a Cadian Regiment recovering The Fortress of Arrogance for Yarrick following his capture and torture at the hands of the Orks.

Brother SRM wrote:

Orkymike wrote:Alright. why not have a starter set with imperial guard and or then? why should space marines get all the attention?

I'm pretty sure Kanluen and I suggested the same thing - an Armageddon starter set would be the coolest damn thing. Steel Legion Imperial Guard and Orks would be badass.

It would be nice to see this,SM may be GWs "flagship army",but I honestly believe that an Armageddon starter set like this would do well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do however see a problem in including IG as you would need a Battle Force worth of minis to balance the sides out.

I'd avoid Armageddon.

Why?

Two words: Steel Legion.

The artwork they've had always represents them very close to some of the iconic Wehrmacht imagery. That's...not going to be a good sell.

Cadians and their campaigns(which, let's face it--are damned near innumerable. Cadians get everywhere in the Imperium, just because they're that good and in demand by commanders for troopers with a high standard of training) make a better option.

Or they could do some Gaunt's Ghosts themed campaign packs. The events of "Traitor General" taking place on Gereon would make for a hell of a campaign pack.

I think that IG vs Nids would give new players the best exposure to 40k that you could have in such a small package. Yes they're both horde armies, but they also represent the two forces that are constantly in conflict with one another in 40k that, I think, makes the game so interesting.

The imperial guard epitomize humanity. Not just because they're human (duh), but because these are people who are a long long way from home, and who have practically consigned themselves to death on the battlefield, and yet still fight on. Some are threatened by shouting commissars, but many fight, and die (in droves... have you ever seen an apocalypse game with guardsmen involved?) even without such provocation.

Then there is the pure, unrelenting malice of the Tyranids. They are THE aliens. There is nothing human about them, only a desire to kill.. Us.. as it turns out. Because we are delicious.

I don't know what these boxes would/shoud include. Obviously the nids couldn't get MCs, as the guard couldn't get tanks.

I really like the campaignesque idea that kanluwen has. But if one box were to come out, I think nids vs Guard would be the best idea.

And as a disclaimer, I play Space Marines. I just think that A) people are right, give the other armies a chance, and B) that space marines don't really represent 40k as well as a guard Vs Tyranid conflict would.

^^^ You mean IG vs Nids? You wrote IG vs Guard

To be fair, Cadians are also part of Armageddon. In the "regiments involved" bit in the back of Codex: Armageddon it mentions them.

Brother SRM wrote:^^^ You mean IG vs Nids? You wrote IG vs Guard

To be fair, Cadians are also part of Armageddon. In the "regiments involved" bit in the back of Codex: Armageddon it mentions them.

Yeah, but Cadians aren't really iconic of Armageddon.

If you had "Recon the Ash Wastes" with Cadians wearing respirators and Cadian sentinels--people who never actually read the Armageddon book would cry that "they're shoehorning Cadians in everywhere, just like they do with Ultramarines!".

Hence: it'd just be better, overall, to use a Cadian campaign.

Or, hell, you could do the Brimlock Dragoons during the Damocles Gulf Crusade. They use the same general equipment as the Cadians, and actually are descendants of a Cadian regiment that won settlement rights to that world.

Guard v. Tau could definitely be unique.

Lord PoPo wrote:I think that IG vs Guard would give new players the best exposure to 40k that you could have in such a small package. Yes they're both horde armies, but they also represent the two forces that are constantly in conflict with one another in 40k that, I think, makes the game so interesting.

The imperial guard epitomize humanity. Not just because they're human (duh), but because these are people who are a long long way from home, and who have practically consigned themselves to death on the battlefield, and yet still fight on. Some are threatened by shouting commissars, but many fight, and die (in droves... have you ever seen an apocalypse game with guardsmen involved?) even without such provocation.

Then there is the pure, unrelenting malice of the Tyranids. They are THE aliens. There is nothing human about them, only a desire to kill.. Us.. as it turns out. Because we are delicious.

I don't know what these boxes would/shoud include. Obviously the nids couldn't get MCs, as the guard couldn't get tanks.

I really like the campaignesque idea that kanluwen has. But if one box were to come out, I think nids vs Guard would be the best idea.

And as a disclaimer, I play Space Marines. I just think that A) people are right, give the other armies a chance, and B) that space marines don't really represent 40k as well as a guard Vs Tyranid conflict would.

I agree. 'nids vs IG would be a good match up. and a good start for anyone wanting to start an army just to see the eternal struggle of it all.

Orkymike wrote:

Lord PoPo wrote:I think that IG vs Guard would give new players the best exposure to 40k that you could have in such a small package. Yes they're both horde armies, but they also represent the two forces that are constantly in conflict with one another in 40k that, I think, makes the game so interesting.

The imperial guard epitomize humanity. Not just because they're human (duh), but because these are people who are a long long way from home, and who have practically consigned themselves to death on the battlefield, and yet still fight on. Some are threatened by shouting commissars, but many fight, and die (in droves... have you ever seen an apocalypse game with guardsmen involved?) even without such provocation.

Then there is the pure, unrelenting malice of the Tyranids. They are THE aliens. There is nothing human about them, only a desire to kill.. Us.. as it turns out. Because we are delicious.

I don't know what these boxes would/shoud include. Obviously the nids couldn't get MCs, as the guard couldn't get tanks.

I really like the campaignesque idea that kanluwen has. But if one box were to come out, I think nids vs Guard would be the best idea.

And as a disclaimer, I play Space Marines. I just think that A) people are right, give the other armies a chance, and B) that space marines don't really represent 40k as well as a guard Vs Tyranid conflict would.

I agree. 'nids vs IG would be a good match up. and a good start for anyone wanting to start an army just to see the eternal struggle of it all.

I'm not quite sure why everyone and their brother thinks Nids v. IG "would be a good match-up".

Fluffwise, it never ends well for the Guard. They're almost always on the backfoot, and it almost always ends up with them being nommed upon.
Gamewise, you're not getting exposed to anything unique or interesting. You're not even really getting models that are unique or interesting. You're just getting a box crammed full of models, which will inevitably be seized upon by cheapskate gamers as "the perfect start to my army, provided I trade off the parts I'm not going to use!"--which brings about Battle for Macragge/Black Reach all over again.

I would put in Imperial Guard vs... Dark Eldar or Orks.

Just no more Space Marines. No more.

Well, quite obviously SM against SM.

On a serious note if i was given free riegn i would put in a shooty army (IG) and a CC army (Nids) so players could experience the two sides of the coin and make sure i included as many unit types as possible:

IG

1 Commissar
1 Command Squad
30 guardsmen
1 heavy weapon platform
1 Sentinel
A tank of some sorts (Chimera maybe)

Nids

Tyranid Prime (an uber cool box set exclusive model of course)
3 warriors
8 stealers
20 hormagaunts
10 Gargoyles
1 Carnifex

*Note im not sure how the points would balance out here, and all the models would probably make it very expensive

So in here i've crammed Infantry, Artillery, Infiltrators, Tanks, MCs, Jump Infantry and Walkers. This means that after learning the rules given with the models in the box people will have less to learn. Also the armies are of polar opposites so you can play with each and see which suits you best.

Also this lineup represents what 40K is all about, the human race and it's constant fight to survive despite all the alien races out to get them. Here you have the proper humans of the 41st millenium against the most alien of races, perfect.

Of course if i did actually work for GW i would have to put SM in

CSM vs. Dark Eldar

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:CSM vs. Dark Eldar

Evil vs. Evil?

That won't happen...

Probably the following:

tyranids:
10 hormagaunts
10 hormaguants
3 warriors
1 warrior prime
3 raveners

eldar:
10 dire avengers
5 striking scorpians
1 war walker
5 warp spiders
1 farseer

how about necrons vs eldar then?

Xenos v. Xenos will never happen.

There's no real overlap between the players of the various Xenos races, but pretty much everyone has a Guard or Space Marine army of some flavor. So bear that in mind when you wishlist.

NOt to mention the standard 'new players idenitfy better with the human factions'.

Hmm...has anyone considered Grey Knights as one of the possible options? GK vs. Daemons? Use a special rulebook that doesn't introduce ALL the complicated rules at once?

ChrisWWII wrote:Hmm...has anyone considered Grey Knights as one of the possible options? GK vs. Daemons?

Someone mentioned the idea upthread, but I still think Daemons are unsuitable for a starter set. Within that army, you've got four different factions with almost zero overlap. Even the IG could get generic support if they put an IST-heavy =][= force in the box.

I'd go for IG vs Chaos Space Marines, they could do something along the lines of:

Daemon Prince
10 CSM's
5 Plague Marines
3 Bikes/5 Raptors

Vs

CCS
2 Inf Platoons/vet's
Heavy weapon team/sentinal squad

Give it a black crusade theme. You still keep the noob friendly 3+ T4 MEQ's but give a new part of the imperium the limelight for a change.

Starter box sets have gone like so:

2nd Edition - Space Marines vs Orks (Canonically: Blood Angels vs Goffs)
Contained:
20 Snap-Together Orks (Bolt Pistols, Axe)
40 Snap-Together Gretchin (Autoguns)
1 Cardboard Ork Dread

2 Snap-Together Marine Sergeants (Chainswords, Bolt Pistols)
2 Snap-Together Marines w/ Flamers
2 Snap-Together Marines w/ Missile Launchers
14 Snap-Together Marines w/ Bolters

3rd Edition - Space Marines vs Dark Eldar (Canonically Ultramarines vs Cabal of the Black Heart)
Contained:
1 Complete 3rd Edition Space Marine Tactical box-set (i.e 10 marines inc. Sergeant, Flamer, Missile Launcher)
1 Complete 3rd Edition Space Marine Land Speeder Set (i.e. w/ Heavy Bolter, Multimelta)

1 Complete 3rd Edition Dark Eldar Warrior Set (i.e. 16 Warriors w/ 2 Splinter Cannons)

4th Edition - Battle for Macragge - Space Marines vs Tyranids (Canonically Ultramarines vs Hive Fleet Behemoth)
Contained:
10 Snap-Together Marines (inc Sergeant, Flamer, Missile Launcher)
1 Snap-Together Imperial Pilot

8 Snap-Together Termagaunts
8 Snap-Together Genestealers
8 Snap-Together Spore Mines

5th Edition - Assault on Black Reach - Space Marines vs Orks (Canonically Ultramarines vs Goffs)
Contained:
1 Snap-Together Space Marine Captain
10 Snap-Together Tactical Marines (inc Sergeant, Flamer, Missile Launcher)
5 Snap Together Terminators (inc Sergeant)
1 Snap Together Dreadnought

1 Snap Together Ork Warboss
20 Snap Together Ork Boyz (inc 2 Big Shootas)
5 Snap Together Ork Nobz
3 Snap Together Deff Koptas

The rules have always been: Space Marines vs a Xenos race of some sort, with no Xenos race repeated consecutively. Seeing as we're more or less assured Vanilla Marines will be included (and probably Ultramarines at that), all that lies in question is the xenos race.

Orks we can rule out having been included in the 5th ed set.
Chaos Space Marines and Necrons can probably be ruled out as being too similar to the Marines
Tau and Eldar can probably be ruled out as being too 'good' and not obviously evil.
Dark Eldar can probably be ruled out as not being amenable to snap-together (too spindly) - the 3rd ed box models were just standard models, and by all accounts was too much of a difficulty step for new players to get into.
Daemons can probably be rules out as having rules too radical compared to most armies.

Which leaves... Tyranids. Boring? Well yes, but as a means of selling box sets to new players, it probably works out well. They're a popular race, obvious as being evil, different enough from marines to provide contrast and as shown by the 4th ed set, work well in snap together. So I present what I would guess is most likely to be in the 6th edition set, assuming GW's ability to produce models on sprues remains similar to the current Black Reach set:

6th Edition - Defence of Tarsis Ultra - Space Marines vs Tyranids (Canonically Ultramarines vs Hive Fleet Leviathan)
Contains:

1 A5 6th Edition Rule Book
1 Quick Start Guide
1 Mission Booklet
2 Measuring Sticks
Blast Templates
8 White Dice, 2 Red Dice, 1 Scatter Dice

1 Snap-Together Space Marine Terminator Chaplain (Cool, doesn't introduce complex rules a lá the Librarian)
10 Snap Together Tactical Marines (inc Flamer, Missile Launcher, Sergeant) (Standard marines, included in every starter set to date)
5 Snap Together Assault Terminators (Elite choice, cool, different to tactical terminators, offers marines some CC ability)
1 Snap Together Dreadnought (Needs a large 'wow' unit. Tanks would take up too much space on sprues, and dreadnoughts are cooler anyway).

1 Snap-Together Tyranid Prime (Reasonable-sized HQ unit. Opportunity to fill hole in model line)
5 Snap-Together Tyranid Warriors (Equipped for CC, elite unit)
20 Snap Together Termagaunts (Standard horde unit)
5 Snap-Together Spore Mines (tiny sprue footprint, makes things a little more interesting)
1 Snap-Together Carnifex. (big 'wow' unit, and counterpart to the Dreadnought)


Any thoughts?

It would be nice to have a set with no space marines, but I just can't imagine the poster boys not being present.

And even a watered down chaos are to risque to be introduced to a 12yr old as a christmas present.

Pacific wrote:It would be nice to have a set with no space marines, but I just can't imagine the poster boys not being present.

And even a watered down chaos are to risque to be introduced to a 12yr old as a christmas present.

Again:
It's not even that they're "poster boys".

It's just an easier sell than Guard.

I always thought that there should be a set small lot for each army and when 2 people want too start they can mix and match them together?

As much as I dislike the spotlight being on SM, it does make sense for them to be included in a starter set.

They're easy for a new player to see as "the good guys", and they are rather iconic. There's something about them that screams "I'm really cool".

Since a starter set is intended to draw in new players (and, don't we all want 40k to be as popular as possible?), SM has to be one of the armies.

GCMandrake has a really well thought-out post and I'm almost 100% in agreement with him. But, perhaps Ultramarines could be allowed to sit this one out. Perhaps time the starter set to be released at the same time as a SM release. Perhaps a 6th edition BT release? Or, maybe an entirely new chapter, Salamanders, for example.

That would add a bit of variety to the starter set and maybe get some older players excited about it.

I would go for tau vs nids

-tau-
-battlesuit
-fire warriors
-kroot
-hammerhead

-tyranids-
-tyrant
-genstealers
-gargoyles
-carnifex

and with a free code for Dow game series for pc and i am talking about the better oens not the new

Traitor guard (Nurgle) versus Death Korps of Krieg.

Let the lasguns fly!

DorianGray wrote:I would put in Imperial Guard vs... Dark Eldar or Orks.

Just no more Space Marines. No more.

Sorry. Never going to happen. Remember, we want GW to make boatloads of money so that the game stays healthy. Space Marines sell.

kronk wrote:Traitor guard (Nurgle) versus Death Korps of Krieg.

Let the lasguns fly!

DorianGray wrote:I would put in Imperial Guard vs... Dark Eldar or Orks.

Just no more Space Marines. No more.

Sorry. Never going to happen. Remember, we want GW to make boatloads of money so that the game stays healthy. Space Marines sell.

I like how you say "Never gonna happen" in a post where you have both traitor Guard and Death Korps in plastic

If anything, I'm ironic. Or chaotic. I'm not sure.

kronk wrote:Traitor guard (Nurgle) versus Death Korps of Krieg.

Let the lasguns fly!

Yay, gas masks.

What I would put in the starter set? Hmmm, one word says it all "squats".

I think GW made a wonderful job of creating the Assault on Black Reach boxed set. Space Marines vs. Orks is great and the models are perfect.

My only gripe is that I bought it for $60 a year ago. Now it's $90. completely ridiculous pricing.

LOUIE.ROCKETFINGERS wrote:I think GW made a wonderful job of creating the Assault on Black Reach boxed set. Space Marines vs. Orks is great and the models are perfect.

My only gripe is that I bought it for $60 a year ago. Now it's $90. completely ridiculous pricing.

They sold it at a loss to attract new customers. Now that it's selling much more slowly, they're putting the price back up to dissuade veterans from just buying them for cheap marines/orks.

Yeah I understand why they did that. (That's how i got my orks started. sister bought the Black Reach set and gave me the ork portion.) I don't mind thought they have been fun to learn to play and even if I don't win a lot its still fun to see others strategies towards my orks charging.

Grey Knights versus Cultists

Grey Knights versus daemons a bit more serious.


Or maybe space marines versus space marines? Thatd be something new .

Horus Heresy all the way!

Istvaan dropsite massacre FTW! Iron Hands Vs Emperors Children definitely.

Loyalist
Plastic Primarch (!) Ferrus Mannus
10-man tactical squad with Flamer, Missile Launcher and Sergeant with Power Fist
5-man tactical squad all with bolters
1 heresy-era Dreadnought with Multi Melta and Dreadnought CC weapon

Rebels
Plastic Primarch (!) Fulgrim
10-man tactical squad with Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter and Sergeant with Chainsword
5-man tactical squad all with bolters
1 heresy-era Land Speeder with Multi Melta

Primarchs would have simplified stats to not befuddle newbies. Maybe the same profile as Chapter Masters?

The Terrain should be wrecked pieces of a drop pod, a couple of barricades, and maybe a small earthen bunker.

Brother SRM wrote:^^^ You mean IG vs Nids? You wrote IG vs Guard

That would actually be pretty cool. Basically the set is designed to have to futuristic armies slugging it out. The set is designed for the two armies to be opposing forces. You and a friend can buy the set and paint the armies in two different colour schemes. Or the people with keen eyes, would buy the set and combine the two armies into one!

20x Imperial Guard Cadian Shock Troops
1x Imperial Guard Leman Russ Battle Tank
1x Imperial Guard Lord Commissar

20x Imperial Guard Cadian Shock Troops
2x Imperial Guard Sentinel
1x Imperial Guard Lord Commissar (different sculpt)

In addition you would have two sprues of bitz to use as icons to differentiate the armies.

Of course you would probably need a better set up than the one I listed above, but you get the idea.

Grey Knights and Demons. Bring the Demons back around with an updated Codex and it's still Space Marines without being too vanilla.

Imperial Guard versus CSM.

Standard horde vs elite kit, but inverted.

Demiurge Vs Hrud

Either SM V Tau
Or SM V Nids.

SM v Tau
1 Captain
2 Tactical Squads
1 Rhino
1 Dreadnought

Tau
1 Ethereal
2 Fire Warrior Squads
Hammer Head
1 Kroot Squad

SM V Nids
Same for SM as before

Nids
1 Hive Tyrant
2 Squads of Gaunts
1 Squad of Gene Stealers
1 Squad of Biovores or Pyrovores.

Eldar vs Space Marines (The battle of the sepulchre)
Eldar:
Avatar (exclusive to this set): 155 points
10 guardians with shuriken cannon: 85
5 Howling banshees: 80
5 fire dragons: 80
Wave serpent: 90
total: 490

Space marines:
Marneus Calgar (exclusive): 250
10 tactical marines and captain with powerfist: 115
Techmarine with power weapon and sevitor: 75
Rhino with storm bolter: 45
total: 485

Designed so that new players can expand to it, Should inculde a brief outline of the battle, a scenario to go with it, and simplified models (like the black reach ones). Should also include all the special rules for each faction.

no tanks. Equalled out pointswise with common troops and a punk HQ, a small 'other' troop/cav/bike/specialty squad and a walker/mc-ish thing. Tanks would just not fit in the box unless assembled. The sprue frames are huge.

Doesn't matter which faction, but supposing SM vs Eldar:

SM: captain, 2 different tactical squads, 3 bikers (or 5 termies or 5 scouts, whatever), 1 dread

Eldar: farseer, 2 guardians squads, 1 dire avengers squad, 3 jetbikes (or 3 wraithguard?), wraithlord or warwalker

or chaos vs guard
CSM: lord, 2-3 CSM squads, obliterators or flesh hounds or raptors or something, dread or demon

IG: officer, basic guardsmen, stormtroopers or heavy weapon teams, sentinels

Then add in a ruleboox, dice, stick, as usual plus:
a sprue of terrain bits (or even cardboard walls a-la 2nd. ed.), and a scenario book (disappointly lacking in AoBR)

Maybe scrap the rhino, but a falcon, that would be cool, maybe only a four piece model (like the dreadnaught). But noobs to the game (it is a starter kit) would love a tank, of any kind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
plus the HQ should be kept the same to match the story in the space marine codex

From the way it sounds its likely the next will be vanilla marines vs vanilla marines.... It would sell well but would hardly make the game better. (more marine oversaturation)

Personally; I'd like something from this list:

Elysian Drop Troops vs Tau
Dark Angels vs Eldar
Death Korps of Krieg vs Traitor Guard
Grey Knights vs Chaos Daemons
Sisters of Battle vs Traitor Guard

New, gets people into the game AND gets people to actually play different/more unique armies.

I'd keep the dice, templates, and book, but drop those weird red things and put in a decent tape measure. Cardboard terrain as they use to would also go into the box. As for armies I would stick Tau and Guard in there, though if marines must be had it would be marines versus tau.

I'm on a tau binge lately, forgive me.