It seems to be unreliably hinted that the Kroot are not really the "noble savage", but actually more advanced than the Tau think. But how much is the big question.
They have the industry to produce weapons and space-faring craft, they have been collecting DNA from across the entire galaxy, they have a well developed left brain hemisphere.
Mayby they are more dangerous than they are given credit for... Post your conspiracy theories here.
an ork warship crashed onto their homeworld and the survivors were consumed by the kroot. This led them to, subconsciously quite possibly, absorbing or mimicing the ork capability to construct such vessels and perhaps even expalins the rest of their technological advances.
anyway, that means that, if they're not so advanced as other races, they learn in an astonishing rate! understanding the warp makes them more "all-around people" than their "masters" the Tau, not to mention the knowledge of warp travel is a step forward, in the next millenia maybe they can outclass even Tau tech... if they maintain their learning rate
Kroot strike me as having a "need to know" meantality; they only advanced their technology and knowledge to fulfill a goal. They built ships because they needed to, they understand the warp for their own safety,but are pretty comfortable with their own combat abilities, so don't invent alot of war technology.
I don't think that racial dominance is much of an issue for the Tau. That's a much more "human" trait. Instead, the focus seems to be on caste dominance -- specifically, that of the Ethereals. Whether Kroot can accept this is the key to guaging whether they are ultimately dangerous to the Tau. As Kilkrazy notes, they do not seem overly ambitious, at least in contrast to the hyperdynamic expansion of the Tau race. I think the word "unambitious" as a descriptor for the Kroot race, however, is misleading (being Tau-centric). "Mercenary" is probably better. The Kroot discovered in the Tau a race with which they could work. No other species in 40k is really open to managing a multi-racial empire.
In older fluff the Kroot had an empire in their own right, though this doesn't really represent their technological level. They also used to live in cities rather than being forest dwelling nomads, but the Shapers dicated that they had lost their way and thus they went back to the old way of life, leaving their cities to decay and be taken over be the jungles once more. =/
I always thought the Kroot were happy with their deal with the Tau. Fight for them and you get whatever choice of bodies you want, just make sure the civies don't see you.
Supposedly the Tau are trying to get the Kroot to stop eating enemies, although this is actually impossible, given their biology.
The Kroot have sneaked out groups to fight as mercenaries for other aliens in order to get access to a wider range of prey. This is against their treaty with the Tau.
I don't really know why people in 40K think eating enemy bodies is bad. It seems like a fairly GrimDark(tm) thing to do.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I bet it's just a Tau taboo and one as simple as the human taboo against cannibalism. The Tau have just extended it to other sapient races.
Manchu wrote:Space Marines (can) do it, after all.
Do what exactly ?
Act like the mutants chaos creates in its despicable attempt to use the warp to breed reinforcements?
Manchu wrote:
I bet it's just a Tau taboo and one as simple as the human taboo against cannibalism. The Tau have just extended it to other sapient races.
Want to lose that bet?
T'au put a blind eye to it, thus accept it.
( if it isn't expanded on T'au themselves... )
Humans generally deem eating a balanced meal superior to consume things that were living beeings before you have killed them in a most violent way.
Lots of flamers used, but never heard of roasted xenos for dinner.... Orks may keep grotz as a snack, but fungi shouldn't be a example of taste.
Eldar...what do they eat at all? Diet to stay thin?
Necrons, solved that issue. Just a new battery a some oil...
Nids. The real all consuming species. But you expect it from them.
Grey Templar wrote:I have noticed the line that says they are gathering DNA.
Kroot coup anyone?
Kroot declare war on the T'au empire. millions of Bloodthirsty savages descend on the Sept worlds.
all T'au, with the exception of the Farsight enclaves, are eaten and the Kroot gain the ability to wield T'au tech to the fullest.
Codex: T'au Empire is split into Codex: Kroot and Codex: T'au colonies.
Tau technology unlike Ork technology is not genetically encoded.
A Kroot coup would fail unless the Kroot have the intelligence to learn to use new technology.
the Kroot are capable of using T'au tech(Shapers can be given Pulse Rifles)
it's likely more of a traditional thing for Kroot to use their ancesteral weapons.
FWIW: the Kroot took T'au weapons tech and improved their traditional weapons to have a deadlier projectile, but kept the basic design.
if they did take over the T'au empire, they would likely use whatever Tech they needed to run it. their Space Ships are superior in the method of transportation as Kroot have Psykers capable of piloting their Warp spheres.
Manchu wrote:Space Marines (can) do it, after all.
Do what exactly ?
Act like the mutants chaos creates in its despicable attempt to use the warp to breed reinforcements?
Manchu wrote:
I bet it's just a Tau taboo and one as simple as the human taboo against cannibalism. The Tau have just extended it to other sapient races.
Want to lose that bet?
T'au put a blind eye to it, thus accept it.
( if it isn't expanded on T'au themselves... )
Humans generally deem eating a balanced meal superior to consume things that were living beeings before you have killed them in a most violent way.
Lots of flamers used, but never heard of roasted xenos for dinner.... Orks may keep grotz as a snack, but fungi shouldn't be a example of taste.
Eldar...what do they eat at all? Diet to stay thin?
Necrons, solved that issue. Just a new battery a some oil...
Nids. The real all consuming species. But you expect it from them.
Lots of fluff show that space marines eat enemies/predators as initiation/trial rites
Cannibalism is a taboo for a reason as eating humans leads to an increased chance on mental disorders, but i think that most humans are fine consuming living beings, what with the massive industry in livestock farming.
On the whole kroot are only cannibals in private, when on the battle field they eat aliens they have killed, this is called eating not cannibalism.
Manchu wrote:Space Marines (can) do it, after all.
Do what exactly ?
Act like the mutants chaos creates in its despicable attempt to use the warp to breed reinforcements?
Manchu wrote:
I bet it's just a Tau taboo and one as simple as the human taboo against cannibalism. The Tau have just extended it to other sapient races.
Want to lose that bet?
T'au put a blind eye to it, thus accept it.
( if it isn't expanded on T'au themselves... )
Humans generally deem eating a balanced meal superior to consume things that were living beeings before you have killed them in a most violent way.
Lots of flamers used, but never heard of roasted xenos for dinner.... Orks may keep grotz as a snack, but fungi shouldn't be a example of taste.
Eldar...what do they eat at all? Diet to stay thin?
Necrons, solved that issue. Just a new battery a some oil...
Nids. The real all consuming species. But you expect it from them.
Lots of fluff show that space marines eat enemies/predators as initiation/trial rites
Enemies?
No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh?
Predators? Haven't seen anything on it, but so what? We eat predators now. There is no taboo there.
Likely Manchu was making a hamfisted Kroot comparison to the fact that some Chapters of the Astartes retain a genetic ability that they can eat brain tissue and 'learn' how to operate the equipment associated with it.
Supposedly the Scythes of the Emperor retained that ability and are why Lictors have it, actually.
Cannibalism is a taboo for a reason as eating humans leads to an increased chance on mental disorders, but i think that most humans are fine consuming living beings, what with the massive industry in livestock farming.
On the whole kroot are only cannibals in private, when on the battle field they eat aliens they have killed, this is called eating not cannibalism.
With Kroot, it's not even really "cannibalism". It's reclaiming what was lost. They have to preserve their genetic variants or they'll lose them.
Grey Templar wrote:FWIW: the Kroot took T'au weapons tech and improved their traditional weapons to have a deadlier projectile, but kept the basic design.
You've got that backwards. The T'au improved the Kroot's traditional weapons.
Their reasoning was that the Kroot Rifle is far more deadly and effective in the role that the Kroot are used for, than the pulse rifle in Kroot hands for that same role.
Manchu wrote:I bet it's just a Tau taboo and one as simple as the human taboo against cannibalism. The Tau have just extended it to other sapient races.
Kanluwen wrote:No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh
In "Courage and Honour" Ultramarines, when pressed, kill some Tau and eat their brains so they can quickly learn how to pilot some of their skimmers ( Piranhas or Tetras, I forget which).
Telion also uses the ability to help determine the location of an enemy base in the "Assault on Black Reach" novella as well.
Ian Watson's Imperial Fist book features them feasting and consuming all manner of odd creatures, fluff in those days even had the Astartes at some of those feasts deliberately feasting upon the otherwise inedible -- such as.."waste matter".. if you follow me -- as part of their devotions.
Kanluwen wrote:Likely Manchu was making a hamfisted Kroot comparison to the fact that some Chapters of the Astartes retain a genetic ability that they can eat brain tissue and 'learn' how to operate the equipment associated with it.
Hey, I didn't write it. Take it up with GW and it's affiliates.
Kanluwen wrote:No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh
In "Courage and Honour" Ultramarines, when pressed, kill some Tau and eat their brains so they can quickly learn how to pilot some of their skimmers ( Piranhas or Tetras, I forget which).
Telion also uses the ability to help determine the location of an enemy base in the "Assault on Black Reach" novella as well.
Ian Watson's Imperial Fist book features them feasting and consuming all manner of odd creatures, fluff in those days even had the Astartes at some of those feasts deliberately feasting upon the otherwise inedible -- such as.."waste matter".. if you follow me -- as part of their devotions.
"Imperial Fist" is old. So I discount that, just like I do "Space Marine".
The brain part I made mention to though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Likely Manchu was making a hamfisted Kroot comparison to the fact that some Chapters of the Astartes retain a genetic ability that they can eat brain tissue and 'learn' how to operate the equipment associated with it.
Hey, I didn't write it. Take it up with GW and it's affiliates.
I called it "hamfisted" because it's nowhere near the same reason Kroot consume the dead.
Kroot have to consume genetic material from outside sources or they'll stagnate and be stuck in one form. It's where Krootoxs/Kroothounds came from after all.
Well, it's a bit more than just that one, isolated example. We're talking about the omophagea, one of the implants that makes you a Space Marine. I don't think it's really a matter of "a few Chapters retaining" it
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote:I called it "hamfisted" because it's nowhere near the same reason Kroot consume the dead.
I only mentioned it in relation to KK's point. Obviously, it's grimdark if a Space Marines does it.
Manchu wrote:Well, it's a bit more than just that one, isolated example. We're talking about the omophagea, one of the implants that makes you a Space Marine. I don't think it's really a matter of "a few Chapters retaining" it
Yeah, but at the same time every Chapter has those implants--but some of them don't have them functioning.
Black Templars, for example, have the sus-an membrane but it's nonfunctional.
Kanluwen wrote:I called it "hamfisted" because it's nowhere near the same reason Kroot consume the dead.
I only mentioned it in relation to KK's point. Obviously, it's grimdark if a Space Marines does it.
Of course. If it's Space Marine tested, it's grimdark approved!
Kanluwen wrote:No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh
In "Courage and Honour" Ultramarines, when pressed, kill some Tau and eat their brains so they can quickly learn how to pilot some of their skimmers ( Piranhas or Tetras, I forget which).
Telion also uses the ability to help determine the location of an enemy base in the "Assault on Black Reach" novella as well.
Ian Watson's Imperial Fist book features them feasting and consuming all manner of odd creatures, fluff in those days even had the Astartes at some of those feasts deliberately feasting upon the otherwise inedible -- such as.."waste matter".. if you follow me -- as part of their devotions.
"Imperial Fist" is old. So I discount that, just like I do "Space Marine".
It doesn't matter what you think, the fluff hasn't been altered or changed so it is still cannon, you can't pick and choose.
Kanluwen wrote:Lots of fluff show that space marines eat enemies/predators as initiation/trial rites
Enemies?
No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh?
Predators? Haven't seen anything on it, but so what? We eat predators now. There is no taboo there.
Likely Manchu was making a hamfisted Kroot comparison to the fact that some Chapters of the Astartes retain a genetic ability that they can eat brain tissue and 'learn' how to operate the equipment associated with it.
A. faining ignorance of something, then a few posts down you know exactly what you are talking about, i see
B. eating predatory animals is a taboo in many cultures, look how we perseve east asian cultures for eating dogs or tigers.
Kanluwen wrote:With Kroot, it's not even really "cannibalism".
cannablism = eating your own species, so yes kroot are cannibals, but the cannibilism only takes place under the strict guidance of the shapers.
Kanluwen wrote:No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh
In "Courage and Honour" Ultramarines, when pressed, kill some Tau and eat their brains so they can quickly learn how to pilot some of their skimmers ( Piranhas or Tetras, I forget which).
Telion also uses the ability to help determine the location of an enemy base in the "Assault on Black Reach" novella as well.
Ian Watson's Imperial Fist book features them feasting and consuming all manner of odd creatures, fluff in those days even had the Astartes at some of those feasts deliberately feasting upon the otherwise inedible -- such as.."waste matter".. if you follow me -- as part of their devotions.
"Imperial Fist" is old. So I discount that, just like I do "Space Marine".
It doesn't matter what you think, the fluff hasn't been altered or changed so it is still canon, you can't pick and choose.
Actually, I can. Ian Watson's "Space Marine" has this stamping quite large on its page:
There's also this statement:
Black Library wrote:Believe us when we tell you that Space Marine is quite unlike any other Warhammer 40,000 novel you’ve ever read.
First published in 1993 – though completed some years earlier – at a time when the background to the Warhammer 40,000 universe was still in a state of flux and not yet fully coalesced, the book follows three young Imperial Fist recruits from their formative years in the underhive gangs of Necromunda through to fighting as part of the First Company within the bowels (literally!) of a Tyranid bioship.
Not only will you find squats in this novel –Tzeentch-worshiping squats at that – but also Space Marines controlling Titans, Space Marines with lasguns, the Pain Glove and more than a small amount of toilet humour. Oh, and a Zoat. How could we forget the Zoat?
Although the temptation was great to rewrite significant portions of this book to make it conform to current background, as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable. It also serves as a shining example of what can happen when a respected genre author at the height of his powers is let loose on an established shared universe.
Grey Templar wrote:I have noticed the line that says they are gathering DNA.
Kroot coup anyone?
Kroot declare war on the T'au empire. millions of Bloodthirsty savages descend on the Sept worlds.
all T'au, with the exception of the Farsight enclaves, are eaten and the Kroot gain the ability to wield T'au tech to the fullest.
Codex: T'au Empire is split into Codex: Kroot and Codex: T'au colonies.
I don't think Tau biology has anything to do with the Tau's abilities to utilize weaponry, so I hate to say it... actually, not really I love to say it, this is highly unlikely. They can already use Tau weaponry just fine anyway.
T'au put a blind eye to it, thus accept it.
There is a major difference between turning a blind eye and accepting something. Turning a blind eye implies that it is NOT accepted, its just ignored. They pretend it doesn't happen, and try to keep it quiet so very few actually know about it. Accepting it means its out in the open (which it is not).
Enemies?
No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh?
Likely Manchu was making a hamfisted Kroot comparison to the fact that some Chapters of the Astartes retain a genetic ability that they can eat brain tissue and 'learn' how to operate the equipment associated with it.
Supposedly the Scythes of the Emperor retained that ability and are why Lictors have it, actually.
Would you like me to point out whats wrong with these two quotes from you Kanluwen, or can you figure it out?
"Imperial Fist" is old. So I discount that, just like I do "Space Marine".
Everything published since 2nd Ed. is new. So I discount that, just like I do many of your arguments. See what I did there? You can't just pick and choose to accept what you like and throw away the rest. It doesn't work that way. Thats almost like someone going through the rulebook and picking and choosing which rules they want to use and which they don't. Yeah, you can do it, but its not going to be accepted by the general public.
Again its very interesting you know all this after saying
Kanluwen wrote:nothing I've read has had that
What?
I've not actually read "Imperial Fist".
But I have, however, read the freaking webpage.
chaos0xomega wrote:
Would you like me to point out whats wrong with these two quotes from you Kanluwen, or can you figure it out?
Would you like me to point out that we're talking about two very different contexts here?
If you're going to play the quoting game, please. Get some skill at it.
BluntmanDC wrote:Lots of fluff show that space marines eat enemies/predators as initiation/trial rites
Cannibalism is a taboo for a reason as eating humans leads to an increased chance on mental disorders, but i think that most humans are fine consuming living beings, what with the massive industry in livestock farming.
On the whole kroot are only cannibals in private, when on the battle field they eat aliens they have killed, this is called eating not cannibalism.
Kanluwen wrote:Enemies?
No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh?
This was in reply to the first part of his statement. The "Lots of fluff show that space marines eat enemies as initiation/trial rites".
Which isn't true since the only example is "Imperial Fist", which is by GW's own standard...
Predators? Haven't seen anything on it, but so what? We eat predators now. There is no taboo there.
If you can't figure out what part of the above quote that was replying to, I weep for you.
Likely Manchu was making a hamfisted Kroot comparison to the fact that some Chapters of the Astartes retain a genetic ability that they can eat brain tissue and 'learn' how to operate the equipment associated with it.
Of which the only examples we have are:
1) "Imperial Fist", which is.... And in that case, they devoured the brain of a fallen Imperial Titan crewmember to operate the Titan. Nothing "enemy" about it
2) "Courage and Honour", which is a Graham McNeill book...which is about one step up from C.S. Goto fanwank when it comes to the "canon" value you can take from it.
3) Telion eating a brain to learn the location of a fortress. Which...actually has nothing to do with operating equipment, now does it?
chaos0xomega wrote:Everything published since 2nd Ed. is new. So I discount that, just like I do many of your arguments. See what I did there? You can't just pick and choose to accept what you like and throw away the rest. It doesn't work that way. Thats almost like someone going through the rulebook and picking and choosing which rules they want to use and which they don't. Yeah, you can do it, but its not going to be accepted by the general public.
Sorry, but no. It does work that way.
When a book is no longer published or is considered by the owning company:
Black Library wrote:Believe us when we tell you that Space Marine is quite unlike any other Warhammer 40,000 novel you’ve ever read.
First published in 1993 – though completed some years earlier – at a time when the background to the Warhammer 40,000 universe was still in a state of flux and not yet fully coalesced, the book follows three young Imperial Fist recruits from their formative years in the underhive gangs of Necromunda through to fighting as part of the First Company within the bowels (literally!) of a Tyranid bioship.
Not only will you find squats in this novel –Tzeentch-worshiping squats at that – but also Space Marines controlling Titans, Space Marines with lasguns, the Pain Glove and more than a small amount of toilet humour. Oh, and a Zoat. How could we forget the Zoat?
Although the temptation was great to rewrite significant portions of this book to make it conform to current background, as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable. It also serves as a shining example of what can happen when a respected genre author at the height of his powers is let loose on an established shared universe.
I'm going to simplify this further for you.
Black Library wrote:as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable.
So yeah.
"Imperial Fist"?
Not canon. Hasn't been since 2nd edition either.
The Kroot are definately more than they appear - if you think they appear as savages. They just don't have a centralized goverment and are clannish in nature. They simply have no interest in running an empire or anything like that.
chaos0xomega wrote:Everything published since 2nd Ed. is new. So I discount that, just like I do many of your arguments. See what I did there? You can't just pick and choose to accept what you like and throw away the rest. It doesn't work that way. Thats almost like someone going through the rulebook and picking and choosing which rules they want to use and which they don't. Yeah, you can do it, but its not going to be accepted by the general public.
Sorry, but no. It does work that way.
When a book is no longer published or is considered by the owning company:
Black Library wrote:Believe us when we tell you that Space Marine is quite unlike any other Warhammer 40,000 novel you’ve ever read.
First published in 1993 – though completed some years earlier – at a time when the background to the Warhammer 40,000 universe was still in a state of flux and not yet fully coalesced, the book follows three young Imperial Fist recruits from their formative years in the underhive gangs of Necromunda through to fighting as part of the First Company within the bowels (literally!) of a Tyranid bioship.
Not only will you find squats in this novel –Tzeentch-worshiping squats at that – but also Space Marines controlling Titans, Space Marines with lasguns, the Pain Glove and more than a small amount of toilet humour. Oh, and a Zoat. How could we forget the Zoat?
Although the temptation was great to rewrite significant portions of this book to make it conform to current background, as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable. It also serves as a shining example of what can happen when a respected genre author at the height of his powers is let loose on an established shared universe.
I'm going to simplify this further for you.
Black Library wrote:as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable.
So yeah.
"Imperial Fist"?
Not canon. Hasn't been since 2nd edition either.
Yeah, no it doesn't work that way. The pen is mightier than the sword, you can't unwrite what is already written. That would be like Marx telling people that Das Kapital was written when he was young and naive, and he really really likes capitalism now, and that everyone should ignore it and the Communist Parties all over the globe are following an outdated Manifesto, and that they should all buy Das Kapital Volume 5: The Search for More Money instead for updated ideals.
Or like Hitler telling everyone that Mein Kampf was written when he was in his dark emo-goth pseudo-teen phase and that he didn't mean what he wrote, and that he really does like the Jews and that German's aren't really a superior race, etc.
It was printed, and it entered the canon. GW can stick their fingers in their ears all they want and scream bloody murder all day long and pretend it never happened, but it did. Short of a retcon, there really is no way to undo that, as much as you/they would like to.
You mean other than flatout saying that it is not to be considered canon and "is to be considered a curiousity piece, a historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s"?
Sorry. But it's not canon, and you're wrong to even suggest that it is.
BluntmanDC wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Predators? Haven't seen anything on it, but so what? We eat predators now. There is no taboo there.
If you can't figure out what part of the above quote that was replying to, I weep for you.
You said 'so what?' and made a factually inaccurate statement, so i replied. 'i weep for you' please get a grip
I'm still waiting to see canonical evidence that Space Marines eat predators as "part of an initiation rite".
And you to realize that I wasn't bloody talking to you, but the git who tried to play the "Misquote out of Context!" game.
First, everyone make with the chillpills. This one is a pass, the next is suspension.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Second, GW considers "canon" something very permeable rather than hard "fact." That said, the Heretic Tomes label is the closest thing to saying "this is not canon" GW has ever done short of rewriting fluff. I would point out, however, that Inquisition War does not bear that mark and the protagonist from Space Marine definitely appears there. It could that the whole story was a dream in a crazy man's head. But that could also be said of Fifth Edition.
Kanluwen wrote:You mean other than flatout saying that it is not to be considered canon and "is to be considered a curiousity piece, a historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s"?
Sorry. But it's not canon, and you're wrong to even suggest that it is.
Did you miss the entire purpose of my post? GW can say its not canon all they want. The fact is that it was originally written as cannon, and it entered the cannon. They can retcon it, but to flat out deny it as being cannon and pretend it never happened is not possible. If they wanted to do that, they should have done the intelligent thing and added a "What If:" in front of the title when they first printed it, like if it were a Marvel Comic.
Canon can be undone. The "facts" of a fictional world can be rewritten. Yes, GW cannot change the fact that they commissioned Ian Watson to write Space Marine and then published it. But GW can certainly say "we no longer consider the events recounted in this book to reflect the Warhammer 40,000 backstory" -- which is pretty much what they have said or as close to it as they have ever come.
Manchu wrote:
Second, GW considers "canon" something very permeable rather than hard "fact." That said, the Heretic Tomes label is the closest thing to saying "this is not canon" GW has ever done short of rewriting fluff. I would point out, however, that Inquisition War does not bear that mark and the protagonist from Space Marine definitely appears there. It could that the whole story was a dream in a crazy man's head. But that could also be said of Fifth Edition.
"Inquisition War" is also no longer being published.
So, there's that going on now.
I should also add that they did a "2009 edition" which, supposedly, had all the non-canon bits brought up to snuff.
I bought that edition. I don't think it's "in compliance" by a long shot. Plus, you yourself have noted that Inquisition War is never out of print for long. None of this really undermines your point about the "heretical tomes" stamp, however. Space Marine by Ian Watson is no longer a reliable source of background story for the Warhammer 40k world. That is pretty clear. It's something like this: Lexandro D'Arquebus is certainly an Imperial Fist Space Marine of some note but the stories one may have heard about him are a trifle exaggerated.
Manchu wrote:I bought that edition. I don't think it's "in compliance" by a long shot. Plus, you yourself have noted that Inquisition War is never out of print for long. None of this really undermines your point about the "heretical tomes" stamp, however. Space Marine by Ian Watson is no longer a reliable source of background story for the Warhammer 40k world. That is pretty clear. It's something like this: Lexandro D'Arquebus is certainly an Imperial Fist Space Marine of some note but the stories one may have heard about him are a trifle exaggerated.
I'm not sure about it "being out of print for long", frankly.
I think they just haven't gotten around to updating it with a "Heretic's Tome" stamp--or just aren't gonna bother since they have no plans to republish it.
Kanluwen wrote:2) "Courage and Honour", which is a Graham McNeill book...which is about one step up from C.S. Goto fanwank when it comes to the "canon" value you can take from it.
hmm... I can't agree here. He's written some of the foundation "stones" of the current 40K setting, so much so that parts of his work are included in the codices themselves.
The fact that he is capable of remembering to actually use the full range of the Astartes abilties means he should be lauded rather than mocked just because it doesn't fit into your, very specific and far too narrow, view of what the setting is.
Now, I agree that canon can, is and even should be rewritten where appropriate. I think the Ultramarines work much better now than in their first incarnation and background. But there's no harm at all in bringing back, even if only in a tip of the hat type way, older fluff, where appropriate.
This ability of the marines is canon, has been and doesn't appear to be going anywhere soon. It's a well established part of the Deathwatch game for example, and it also, for example, entirely relevant to chapters who are still canon -- like the Blood Drinkers http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Drinkers
Kanluwen wrote:No, nothing I've read has had that. If the Astartes don't stoop themselves to operate enemy equipment--why the hell would they soil themselves with their flesh
In "Courage and Honour" Ultramarines, when pressed, kill some Tau and eat their brains so they can quickly learn how to pilot some of their skimmers ( Piranhas or Tetras, I forget which).
Telion also uses the ability to help determine the location of an enemy base in the "Assault on Black Reach" novella as well.
Ian Watson's Imperial Fist book features them feasting and consuming all manner of odd creatures, fluff in those days even had the Astartes at some of those feasts deliberately feasting upon the otherwise inedible -- such as.."waste matter".. if you follow me -- as part of their devotions.
"Imperial Fist" is old. So I discount that, just like I do "Space Marine".
It doesn't matter what you think, the fluff hasn't been altered or changed so it is still cannon, you can't pick and choose.
Well, you can, that's why we keep getting into these sorts of arguments.
GW themselves have said the "canon" fluff should be regarded as a mixture of truth, lies, misunderstandings, propaganda, history, legend and myth.
I am more surprised that SMs would fit into a Tau Tetra than that they would kill prisoners and eat their brains in order to learn how to fly them.
But perhaps SMs are not nine feet tall. Perhaps they are actually only six feet tall and could squeeze in okay.
I find this mutability of the "canon fluff" the most enjoyable aspect of it.
Kanluwen wrote:2) "Courage and Honour", which is a Graham McNeill book...which is about one step up from C.S. Goto fanwank when it comes to the "canon" value you can take from it.
hmm... I can't agree here. He's written some of the foundation "stones" of the current 40K setting, so much so that parts of his work are included in the codices themselves.
No doubt he has, but he is very hit or miss with the content of his works and a lot of his earlier books are what I take issue with.
If he'd go back and rework them with the writing skill and canonical knowledge he has now?
I'd be a lot happier and find it easier to regard it as canon.
The fact that he is capable of remembering to actually use the full range of the Astartes abilties means he should be lauded rather than mocked just because it doesn't fit into your, very specific and far too narrow, view of what the setting is.
Again: him using it isn't the issue. I have no problems with the usage of this specific ability.
The issue was that he didn't seem to know what the hell he was doing with it when he actually used it.
Now, I agree that canon can, is and even should be rewritten where appropriate. I think the Ultramarines work much better now than in their first incarnation and background. But there's no harm at all in bringing back, even if only in a tip of the hat type way, older fluff, where appropriate.
Provided they make it clear that it's a tip of the hat, with no wiggle room for people to somehow interpret that tip of the hat being some kind of hint at the return/introduction of something.
This ability of the marines is canon, has been and doesn't appear to be going anywhere soon. It's a well established part of the Deathwatch game for example, and it also, for example, entirely relevant to chapters who are still canon -- like the Blood Drinkers http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Drinkers
Again:
no issues with the usage of it. I know it's there, and it's very rarely used except as a deus ex machina.
I'm not sure if this has been cover yet (these posts are rather chaotic to skim through), but the recent Deathwatch book covers the space marine eating things issue. Let me go fetch the book real quick....The Omophagae allows the space marine to learn by eating. They can absorb memories, which quote can be very useful in an alien environment.
As for the actual topic, I don't think the kroot are really up to anything big. Though I can definitely see something happening between the kroot and tau if their mercenaries are discovered.
ZeFelix42 wrote:I'm not sure if this has been cover yet (these posts are rather chaotic to skim through), but the recent Deathwatch book covers the space marine eating things issue. Let me go fetch the book real quick....The Omophagae allows the space marine to learn by eating. They can absorb memories, which quote can be very useful in an alien environment.
As for the actual topic, I don't think the kroot are really up to anything big. Though I can definitely see something happening between the kroot and tau if their mercenaries are discovered.
Yeah, they'll get in a big fight one night then they'll get a divorce. Now the vespid live with the Tau, but they get to see the Kroot every other weekend.
ZeFelix42 wrote:I'm not sure if this has been cover yet (these posts are rather chaotic to skim through), but the recent Deathwatch book covers the space marine eating things issue. Let me go fetch the book real quick....The Omophagae allows the space marine to learn by eating. They can absorb memories, which quote can be very useful in an alien environment.
As for the actual topic, I don't think the kroot are really up to anything big. Though I can definitely see something happening between the kroot and tau if their mercenaries are discovered.
Yeah, they'll get in a big fight one night then they'll get a divorce. Now the vespid live with the Tau, but they get to see the Kroot every other weekend.
So much hate for you right now.
Reading should not make coffee go through my nose! It is not cool!
Manchu wrote:Canon can be undone. The "facts" of a fictional world can be rewritten. Yes, GW cannot change the fact that they commissioned Ian Watson to write Space Marine and then published it. But GW can certainly say "we no longer consider the events recounted in this book to reflect the Warhammer 40,000 backstory" -- which is pretty much what they have said or as close to it as they have ever come.
That's true, however the nature of the 40K canon is such that a book printed with HERESY TOME stamped on it merely becomes part of the black library of literature proscribed by the IoMbecause the facts recounted within are the truth, and must be suppressed to promote belief in the current version of history.
Manchu wrote:Canon can be undone. The "facts" of a fictional world can be rewritten. Yes, GW cannot change the fact that they commissioned Ian Watson to write Space Marine and then published it. But GW can certainly say "we no longer consider the events recounted in this book to reflect the Warhammer 40,000 backstory" -- which is pretty much what they have said or as close to it as they have ever come.
That's true, however the nature of the 40K canon is such that a book printed with HERESY TOME stamped on it merely becomes part of the black library of literature proscribed by the IoMbecause the facts recounted within are the truth, and must be suppressed to promote belief in the current version of history.
If there were dozens upon dozens of books with that stamp, you'd be right.
But there's just the one example, which they describe as "Although the temptation was great to rewrite significant portions of this book to make it conform to current background, as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable."--it's safe to say ignore this book for canonical purposes.
If someone gets a chance, please enquire with BL employees as to why Space Marine got this label and Inquisition Wars did not. As to the latter being OOP, that's a bit misleading. Sure it's not rolling off the presses currently but you can walk into major chain bookstores and buy a brand new copy today.
Manchu wrote:Canon can be undone. The "facts" of a fictional world can be rewritten. Yes, GW cannot change the fact that they commissioned Ian Watson to write Space Marine and then published it. But GW can certainly say "we no longer consider the events recounted in this book to reflect the Warhammer 40,000 backstory" -- which is pretty much what they have said or as close to it as they have ever come.
That's true, however the nature of the 40K canon is such that a book printed with HERESY TOME stamped on it merely becomes part of the black library of literature proscribed by the IoMbecause the facts recounted within are the truth, and must be suppressed to promote belief in the current version of history.
If there were dozens upon dozens of books with that stamp, you'd be right.
But there's just the one example, which they describe as "Although the temptation was great to rewrite significant portions of this book to make it conform to current background, as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable."--it's safe to say ignore this book for canonical purposes.
If only one such book has been discovered thus far, it shows the terrifying power of the Inquisition in managing to suppress the others.
Kilkrazy wrote:If only one such book has been discovered thus far, it shows the terrifying power of the Inquisition in managing to suppress the others.
I submit that this is a preemptive counter conspiracy to discredit the Space Marine novel, thereby asserting that it is true, while it is actually false and at the same time not discrediting the Inquisition War novels, which is to imply that they are false, when of course they chronicle real events. No better hiding place than out in the open.
I brought this up to Dan and his wife on Twitter, and got a reply that indicates that he's as stumped by it as we are
(Not really quoting Dan! Just citing source! )Dan Abnett wrote:@ntrisley That's a tricky one. Not actually sure that BL considers it canonical anymore, but don't quote me on that. Still great, though.
I feel bad that I did have to make it appear I'm quoting him there...
But still. It's good to know we're not the only ones stumped by "Is it canon or not?"
And Black Library came through today with an answer!
Black Library wrote:@ntrisley You may want to take a look at our Print on Demand FAQ - http://bit.ly/e1JrQz - your answer about heretic tomes is there
The answer?
Black Library FAQ wrote:Why do some Print on Demand titles have a Heretic Tomes logo on them?
Some of the titles in our back catalogue no longer accurately reflect the fictional universes of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 and would require extensive rewriting to bring them up to date. Rather than keep these titles on the shelf, we’ve decided to reprint them but make it quite clear that these books are not to be considered an accurate portrayal of the Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000 universe.
("Marc Gascoigne - The Black Library and Black Flame Publisher")
Spoiler:
Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...
Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.
Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.
I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.
Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".
But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.
It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.
Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.
To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you.
Added the spoilers so wasn't a great big wall of text.
Space Marine/Imperial Fist is about as far away as you can get from fluff/cannon due to the Heretic Tome label. But that doesn't change the other instances of where the Omophagea have been used or explained, Courage and Honour, Chapter Approved, WD issues (issue 98 for one, old I know) the Index Astartes: Rites of Initiation and they used to have the article on the old, but better in my opinion, website.
Got these snippets from Echoes of Mont'au regarding the Kroot and there eating habits
As I ventured outside I was confronted with the sight of some Kroot carnivores devouring the bodies of those we had killed in battle. Though distasteful, I was not surprised by this and paid no more mind to their feasting than I had on previous occasions. Later events would show how costly an oversight this was to be.
As Slaanesh’s army approached our allies, horrifying changes began rippling through the Kroot and they began convulsing, screeching horribly as their flesh erupted in mutation. At this point I realised that these were the Kroot who had feasted on the flesh of the enemy dead at Fio’kai. Slaanesh’s main thrust suddenly altered direction and, instead of charging the Kroot, began heading towards my position.
Sorry, thought this was a thread on Kroot, must have been mislead by the topic title and the OP
And yes, the most recent definition on what Space Marines are (Deathwatch rulebook) explicitely includes this "forget the manual, jut eat the instructor's brain" thing. Most authors don't use this stupid fluff, but some recent ones like McNeill in "Courage and Honour" do (and it was a Tetra vehicle), a really bad novel for sure.
Thousands of years ago, when an Ork asteroid fortress, known as a Rok, crash landed on Pech, the survivors found themselves in the unenviable position of being outnumbered by a warrior race with a taste for flesh. The Orks were quickly destroyed and their bodies consumed by the Kroot. The Kroot laired in the Rok and, several generations later, they manifested the ability to mimic certain aspects of technology learned from the DNA of the dead Ork Meks. Around the remains of the shattered Ork Rok, the first Kroot city began to take shape as the inherited knowledge of technology became more commonplace.
Within the space of a few thousand years, Pech's prime continent was home to five Kroot hives, and factory farming and mining were commonplace. This became known as the Kroot expansionist phase and saw the Kroot construct warp-capable warspheres to take them to the stars.
Here, the Kroot met the Orks once more, but this lime the balance of power had changed. Untested leaders and untried ways of war failed the Kroot in the face of Ork brutality and they were pushed back on every front by the more aggressive Greenskins. However, each world the Orks took remained a thorn in their side as Kroot guerrillas continued to fight the invaders. Eventually, the Kroot were forced to take service as mercenaries with various alien races in order to survive. After twenty years of war, the Kroot (with Tau assistance) were able to reclaim their worlds with minimal resistance as the Orks had simply engaged in looting and destruction on a massive scale before moving on.
The Kroot now looked to rebuild their worlds as they had been before the Ork incursion, but those Kroot who had remained behind to fight the Orks had other ideas. They were not about to rebuild a society that had led them into war and then failed to defend them. Led by a visionary leader named Anghkor Prok, they advocated a return to the old ways, to the time before the coming of the Ork Rok. There would be no rebuilding and the Kroot would revert to the traditional ways that had served them perfectly well for thousands of years. A compromise was reached where each kindred would spend time as mercenaries and fight for other races, returning to their home world periodically to pass on any useful genetic material they had acquired following their victories. A number of warspheres remained on Pech to guard against further invasions and the mercenary Kroot departed to ply their trade amongst the stars.
On the topic of cannibalism:
The Kroot place great respect on those that have gone before them, their genetic forefathers, and ancestor worship is extremely common on the Kroot home worlds. Older Kroot are respected for their accumulated wisdom and the genetic material they have gathered throughout their lives. When a Kroot dies, his immediate family consumes the body and thus precious genetic material is preserved within the kindred.
I reckon the kroot are sending mercinarys out to other empires so they can eat the wounded after the battle and gain the info they know. then they give this info to the tau to help further the greater good!
haloreach4ever wrote:I reckon the kroot are sending mercinarys out to other empires so they can eat the wounded after the battle and gain the info they know. then they give this info to the tau to help further the greater good!
Indeed they are, but not for the benefit of the Tau
KROOT MERCENARIES
White Dwarf #265
Unfortunately, the Tau insistence that the Kroot fight exclusively for them would lead to a disastrous stagnation, as they have absorbed the traits of most of the creatures from within the Tau region. To collect as wide a range of characteristics as possible, they secretly despatch entire armies of mercenaries to fight alongside other races in order to expose themselves to creatures and environments not found in Tau space.
Heh, so if the Kroot end up devouring a hive fleet, somethig that does what they're trying to do a million times better, I guess we'd end up with a second hive mind.
Kroothawk wrote:
And yes, the most recent definition on what Space Marines are (Deathwatch rulebook) explicitely includes this "forget the manual, jut eat the instructor's brain" thing. Most authors don't use this stupid fluff, but some recent ones like McNeill in "Courage and Honour" do (and it was a Tetra vehicle), a really bad novel for sure.
Actually it's a great novel, very cool, if only for the rage in induces amongst idiotic fanboys.
The problem is that most authors don't quite think through what Astartes can and indeed would do in situations and still keep trying to write/use them as if they're nothing more than superstrong humans and fail to use the full variety of of their abilities and skills.
-Loki- wrote:Heh, so if the Kroot end up devouring a hive fleet, somethig that does what they're trying to do a million times better, I guess we'd end up with a second hive mind.
The Shapers have stopped the Kroot from eating Tyranids.
It's surprising that they didn't stop them from eating Chaotics, but then the plot would have been different.
Kanluwen wrote:2) "Courage and Honour", which is a Graham McNeill book...which is about one step up from C.S. Goto fanwank when it comes to the "canon" value you can take from it.
hmm... I can't agree here. He's written some of the foundation "stones" of the current 40K setting, so much so that parts of his work are included in the codices themselves.
The fact that he is capable of remembering to actually use the full range of the Astartes abilties means he should be lauded rather than mocked just because it doesn't fit into your, very specific and far too narrow, view of what the setting is.
Now, I agree that canon can, is and even should be rewritten where appropriate. I think the Ultramarines work much better now than in their first incarnation and background. But there's no harm at all in bringing back, even if only in a tip of the hat type way, older fluff, where appropriate.
This ability of the marines is canon, has been and doesn't appear to be going anywhere soon. It's a well established part of the Deathwatch game for example, and it also, for example, entirely relevant to chapters who are still canon -- like the Blood Drinkers http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Drinkers
There is also the Soul Drinkers to consider. After all their chapter is based around using this ability.
Kroothawk wrote:
And yes, the most recent definition on what Space Marines are (Deathwatch rulebook) explicitely includes this "forget the manual, jut eat the instructor's brain" thing. Most authors don't use this stupid fluff, but some recent ones like McNeill in "Courage and Honour" do (and it was a Tetra vehicle), a really bad novel for sure.
Actually it's a great novel, very cool, if only for the rage in induces amongst idiotic fanboys.
The problem is that most authors don't quite think through what Astartes can and indeed would do in situations and still keep trying to write/use them as if they're nothing more than superstrong humans and fail to use the full variety of of their abilities and skills.
Agreed. They got 19 mutagenic organs that do wacky things. They don't take advantage of that and just focus on the superman aspect.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote:
-Loki- wrote:Heh, so if the Kroot end up devouring a hive fleet, somethig that does what they're trying to do a million times better, I guess we'd end up with a second hive mind.
The Shapers have stopped the Kroot from eating Tyranids.
It's surprising that they didn't stop them from eating Chaotics, but then the plot would have been different.
They did once. Then they turned all pink and crazy. Lesson learned.
Kroothawk wrote:
And yes, the most recent definition on what Space Marines are (Deathwatch rulebook) explicitely includes this "forget the manual, jut eat the instructor's brain" thing. Most authors don't use this stupid fluff, but some recent ones like McNeill in "Courage and Honour" do (and it was a Tetra vehicle), a really bad novel for sure.
Actually it's a great novel, very cool, if only for the rage in induces amongst idiotic fanboys.
Actually, the novel has not a single original idea, just the usual mindless run-of-the-mill Space Marine fanwank. You have to be an idiotic Space Marine fanboy to enjoy such a badly written novel (I had to read it as people started to misquote the novel in Tau/Kroot hater threads, so now I can prove they lied).
Kroothawk wrote:
And yes, the most recent definition on what Space Marines are (Deathwatch rulebook) explicitely includes this "forget the manual, jut eat the instructor's brain" thing. Most authors don't use this stupid fluff, but some recent ones like McNeill in "Courage and Honour" do (and it was a Tetra vehicle), a really bad novel for sure.
Actually it's a great novel, very cool, if only for the rage in induces amongst idiotic fanboys.
Actually, the novel has not a single original idea, just the usual mindless run-of-the-mill Space Marine fanwank. You have to be an idiotic Space Marine fanboy to enjoy such a badly written novel (I had to read it as people started to misquote the novel in Tau/Kroot hater threads, so now I can prove they lied).
Well Tau are fighting White Scars in "Savage Scars". Wonder how that'll be.
Kroothawk wrote:Actually, the novel has not a single original idea, just the usual mindless run-of-the-mill Space Marine fanwank.
[/quote
Rubbish. It follows on exceedingly well from what's been pre established in the earlier books in the series.
You have to be an idiotic Space Marine fanboy to enjoy such a badly written novel (I had to read it as people started to misquote the novel in Tau/Kroot hater threads, so now I can prove they lied).
Such as it not including any original ideas presumably ? Perhaps you should try reading it again, perhaps that way your comments won't come across as quite so ridiculously hyperbolic and uniformed.
reds8n wrote:Rubbish. It follows on exceedingly well from what's been pre established in the earlier books in the series.
I didn't claim that the earlier books were better, seems they aren't.
reds8n wrote:Perhaps you should try reading it again, perhaps that way your comments won't come across as quite so ridiculously hyperbolic and uniformed.
Reading again, how an army of Mantas, Orcas and anti-grav tanks desperately fights over a bridge to cross a river? No thanks!
Within the space of a few thousand years, Pech's prime continent was home to five Kroot hives, and factory farming and mining were commonplace.
~"Within the same amount of time than between the end of Roman Empire, and the creation of the United States, the Kroot managed to build five big cities." I love GW's messed perception of time In 40k, it takes around several millenia to build cities, several centuries to build machines, and you probably spend 20 years of your life each time you go to the bathroom.
As for the original subject (what do each Tau related thread end up like this?), what about if Space Marines eat Kroot? And do the CSM still have this eat-to-learn function? Do they use it?
yes, a space marine that ate a Kroot/T'au/whatever's brain would, temporarly, be able to use the Tech that that creature was familiar with.
Marines don't like doing this because it makes them feel all icky and nasty with all those Xeno memories running around inside. after they do this they usually undergo some sort of cleansing process to remove the memories. they also fade with time, but marines don't like doing that.
Ok, that gives interesting development opportunities, like a Chapter eating Xenos, to fight them better, but also understand them better. Who knows, maybe eating other people's brains make you like them
(Too much roleplay GMing, can't help but search how the plot could evolve not a good thing with 40K's stasis)
The biological idea behind this is that memories are stored in proteins in the brain. GW makes Space Marines eat these proteins and retransforming them into memories. This is a different mechanism than Kroot and Genestealers use who eat Genes and somehow manage to selectively build these genes into their own genome (Kroot using the advice of their shapers and a second brain around their stomach). As some Ork tech knowledge is encrypted into genes (like their warp drive tech), Kroot were able to copy Ork Tech after eating a Big Mac ... erm ... Big Mec
Within the space of a few thousand years, Pech's prime continent was home to five Kroot hives, and factory farming and mining were commonplace.
~"Within the same amount of time than between the end of Roman Empire, and the creation of the United States, the Kroot managed to build five big cities." I love GW's messed perception of time In 40k, it takes around several millenia to build cities, several centuries to build machines, and you probably spend 20 years of your life each time you go to the bathroom.
As for the original subject (what do each Tau related thread end up like this?), what about if Space Marines eat Kroot? And do the CSM still have this eat-to-learn function? Do they use it?
Didn't they go from "hunter-gatherers" to "space-faring hiveworld"? The Tau likewise went from nomadic hunter-gatherers to an advanced empire controlling dozens or hundreds of systems, in about a third of the time it took humans to go from "able to grow simple crops" to "can fly". That all seems like pretty fast advancement to me. (Unfortunately for them, we had a fifty thousand year head start, and control millions of systems, many of which have worlds with populations in the tens of trillions.)
Gridge wrote:There is also the Soul Drinkers to consider. After all their chapter is based around using this ability.
I'm almost certain it isn't.
I think Gridge meant the Flesh Tearers. I also distinctly remember one "-drinkers" SM chapter doing the same. Dont remember exactly which one, and really not interested in looking it up atm.
On a tangent, what would happen of the Kroot ate Nids?
Gridge wrote:There is also the Soul Drinkers to consider. After all their chapter is based around using this ability.
I'm almost certain it isn't.
I think Gridge meant the Flesh Tearers. I also distinctly remember one "-drinkers" SM chapter doing the same. Dont remember exactly which one, and really not interested in looking it up atm.
On a tangent, what would happen of the Kroot ate Nids?
Flesh Tearers and Blood Drinkes areinfamous for their less than kosher rituals... they don't really hide it very well...
Gridge wrote:There is also the Soul Drinkers to consider. After all their chapter is based around using this ability.
I'm almost certain it isn't.
I think Gridge meant the Flesh Tearers. I also distinctly remember one "-drinkers" SM chapter doing the same. Dont remember exactly which one, and really not interested in looking it up atm.
On a tangent, what would happen of the Kroot ate Nids?
Flesh Tearers and Blood Drinkes areinfamous for their less than kosher rituals... they don't really hide it very well...
