Recently my local GW store had a change in managerial staff. I wasn't going to hold any grudges against this new guy, it wasn't like it was his fault our old manager got fired. The old manager was let go for various GW reasons; having events, giving customers "real" hobbying advice (like how to build tables and terrain from non-overpriced-GW-product) and where to get such materials... y'know a real ass .

So the new manager shows up and the first thing he does is cover one of our three gaming tables with a "hobby intro table", the kind of table where the three starter sets are built and painted for a 4+ rolling adventure for the new, interested hobbyist (or that random schmuck who wandered in from Taco Bell). After getting to know about him I found out he had been in the hobby for a staggering 6 months and doesn't own a single army (although I guess he started Skaven just for the occasion). Another cute and very corporate thing of him to say to a younger hobbyist, who at the time was sitting in one of the chairs there, "This is Games Workshop. If you aren't gaming, working or shopping, then get out."

Now all of these complaints so far seem pretty petty but it gets a wee bit better.

A few months back I bought a box of Bloodletters for a friend of mine. He is starting an all 'Zerkers army and I figured I'd get him a cheap scoring unit for not that much money out of my wallet. Months go by and he never really builds them and I start getting interested in Black Templars. Since he plays Grey Knight he got all excited about it and wanted me to build my army up nice and fast. So when we were trying to come up with way for some easy scratch he suggested we exchange the Bloodletters for a box of Neophytes or something. So I go to the store to make an exchange. The new manager told me I'd need a receipt or the record of my purchase in the system. So he can't find it and tells me I'm outta luck. I thought this was strange, becauce normally you don't need either to make an exchange. A day later I called customer service, wondering if they chaged the exchange policy. I was told they hadn't and they'd call the new manager to straighten things out.

Okay cool.

So I go in a couple days later, bringing the box up to him asking if I can exchange it now. He gives me a weird look and starts talking to me with this frustrated tone of voice, talling me he can't do it, we've already been through this... blah blah blah. I tell him I called customer service and they said they'd straighten it all out and give him a call. He shakes his head. "Nope, never got a call."
At this point I'm getting noticeably peeved. I turn and leave telling him I guess I'l just exchange it somewhere else and give customer service another call.

Just last night I get a call from a friend of mine (a manager in the same region) and he tells me he got an email that was sent out from the new manager to all the other GW mangers in the region telling them to be on the look out for a "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters". Apparently, he thingk I got them from some illicit means and now I'm trying to get something free out of it.

Now I just want to punch the in the face. I'm never going back to that store and at this point refuse to buy anything directly from GW. All because I wanted a box of Neophytes.
/rant

Anyone else have any problems like this?

No, GW Southampton guy is cool.

Manager in stoke is the same , absolutely , he's a great gamer and can beat everyone in the store, but he's an pain when it come to everything else just like with yours

Yes the Southampton guy (aka 'wolverene' due to the awesome hair) is pretty cool

All that sounds like what I would expect to hear about a GW store. Ive never been to one, and probably never will since the closest one is around 400 miles away.

I would go to one if given the chance, not to buy anything, but to complete my GW experience. Ive paid thier terrible retail prices, received poorly cast product from Forgeworld, now all i need is poor treatmetn at a GW store.

Its a shame they make such good minis, because in every other way they deserve to go under.

Hmm. Probably should call customer service and let them know about this guy. I'm sure this isn't a thing with all GW stores, the guy here in Sterling is awesome.

Stories like this make me glad I have a hobby store (not a GW) run by an awesome manager who runs weekly events, monthly tournaments for every major system, and carries nearly everything you'd ever need from every major producer.

GW Guildford, all staff are great and I've personally never had a problem with anyone, same with several others I've been into though Guildford's my main one

Seems you just got it rough by getting a useless idiotic witch in charge of your GW store

I was in a GW for about 2 years, and the staff was amazing. 4 tables, at least 1 guy at the ready to help newbie, 1 guy painting, and one guy just helping people with whatever they needed. The manager was a 4-time GD winner, and had some of his amazing pieces on display. He was very humble about it, and was the nicest guy ever.

We were allowed to take covered drinks into the store, which was awesome, as there was a Baskin Robbins (A frappe shop) right next to the place.

Sucks that GW canned the place. It was always packed.

Pen≥Sword wrote:Recently my local GW store had a change in managerial staff. I wasn't going to hold any grudges against this new guy, it wasn't like it was his fault our old manager got fired. The old manager was let go for various GW reasons; having events, giving customers "real" hobbying advice (like how to build tables and terrain from non-overpriced-GW-product) and where to get such materials... y'know a real ass .

So the new manager shows up and the first thing he does is cover one of our three gaming tables with a "hobby intro table", the kind of table where the three starter sets are built and painted for a 4+ rolling adventure for the new, interested hobbyist (or that random schmuck who wandered in from Taco Bell). After getting to know about him I found out he had been in the hobby for a staggering 6 months and doesn't own a single army (although I guess he started Skaven just for the occasion). Another cute and very corporate thing of him to say to a younger hobbyist, who at the time was sitting in one of the chairs there, "This is Games Workshop. If you aren't gaming, working or shopping, then get out."

How big is the shop?

Pretty small mall-styled location, right?
This kind of behavior isn't exclusive to GW. Independent bookstores have the same attitude, as does a chain called "CD Warehouse". It's pretty simple business:
It doesn't attract customers if people are just sitting around inside. It just makes it look like a place to hang out, not a place of business.

Now all of these complaints so far seem pretty petty but it gets a wee bit better.

A few months back I bought a box of Bloodletters for a friend of mine. He is starting an all 'Zerkers army and I figured I'd get him a cheap scoring unit for not that much money out of my wallet. Months go by and he never really builds them and I start getting interested in Black Templars. Since he plays Grey Knight he got all excited about it and wanted me to build my army up nice and fast. So when we were trying to come up with way for some easy scratch he suggested we exchange the Bloodletters for a box of Neophytes or something. So I go to the store to make an exchange. The new manager told me I'd need a receipt or the record of my purchase in the system. So he can't find it and tells me I'm outta luck. I thought this was strange, because normally you don't need either to make an exchange. A day later I called customer service, wondering if they changed the exchange policy. I was told they hadn't and they'd call the new manager to straighten things out.

You know that there's no boxed set for "Neophytes", right? That's probably part of why he was giving you problems.

And that GW policy, as it stands right now, is that if you've got an item you're trying to return/exchange past a certain window(30 days---same as any other retail chain really)--you need a receipt and the item can't be opened.

Okay cool.

So I go in a couple days later, bringing the box up to him asking if I can exchange it now. He gives me a weird look and starts talking to me with this frustrated tone of voice, talling me he can't do it, we've already been through this... blah blah blah. I tell him I called customer service and they said they'd straighten it all out and give him a call. He shakes his head. "Nope, never got a call."
At this point I'm getting noticeably peeved. I turn and leave telling him I guess I'l just exchange it somewhere else and give customer service another call.

And at this point, if I was him and I had a customer coming in telling me "No, it's okay customer service said they'd straighten it all out and give you a call." when I had received no call...I would find your story slightly hard to believe too.

While in all likelihood you're 100% on the up and up, not everyone who tries to do things like that are. They ruin it for the rest of us.

Just last night I get a call from a friend of mine (a manager in the same region) and he tells me he got an email that was sent out from the new manager to all the other GW mangers in the region telling them to be on the look out for a "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters". Apparently, he thinks I got them from some illicit means and now I'm trying to get something free out of it.

Now I just want to punch the in the face. I'm never going back to that store and at this point refuse to buy anything directly from GW. All because I wanted a box of Neophytes.
/rant

Anyone else have any problems like this?

You mean wanting products that don't exist?

Yeah, it's killing my Elysian Stormtrooper army

Kanluwen wrote:

How big is the shop?

Pretty small mall-styled location, right?
This kind of behavior isn't exclusive to GW. Independent bookstores have the same attitude, as does a chain called "CD Warehouse". It's pretty simple business:
It doesn't attract customers if people are just sitting around inside. It just makes it look like a place to hang out, not a place of business.

Nope, not a mall based store. Part of a 'strip mall'. Before the store was relocated was actually in a mall and I never had any problems before, even when I'd just sit around all day maybe hoping for a game or something.

Now all of these complaints so far seem pretty petty but it gets a wee bit better.

You know that there's no boxed set for "Neophytes", right? That's probably part of why he was giving you problems.

And that GW policy, as it stands right now, is that if you've got an item you're trying to return/exchange past a certain window(30 days---same as any other retail chain really)--you need a receipt and the item can't be opened.

No, I didn't ask for anything in particular. Just for an exchange. I'm aware that there are only 'Scout' boxes.
Both times I've talked to customer service there had never been mention of a "30 day window". The box is still sealed and it came down to corporate sending me a box to mail it back to them for store credit. So rather than being just like, a day. I had to jump through hoops to make a simple exchange.

And at this point, if I was him and I had a customer coming in telling me "No, it's okay customer service said they'd straighten it all out and give you a call." when I had received no call...I would find your story slightly hard to believe too.

While in all likelihood you're 100% on the up and up, not everyone who tries to do things like that are. They ruin it for the rest of us.

I didn't say, "Nah brah! It's cool! Customer service said it'll be alright!" I thought that maybe customer service gave him a call and he talked to him. I wanted a reason as to why he still gave me the metaphorical finger. He told me he never got a call (though I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at that point). So I told him I'd call them again.

You mean wanting products that don't exist?

Yeah, it's killing my Elysian Stormtrooper army

Nope, didn't ask for Neophytes. Just an exchange. I technically wanted a box of Scouts.

All of the behavior he exhibited up until the return was pretty typical of a GW crony. It was his attitude about the exchange, not to mention the email he sent out. That's about when I decided I wanted to ruin his face... with a fist.

The manager at GW norwich was heading that way, he seemed really highly strung and to be honest a bit f a douche, then we all got to know him, yes he is buisness orientated.. but i respect that (buisness before pleasure and all that) the more i spoke to him the more i realised we were quite alike.. so he was a douche lol lol

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

How big is the shop?

Pretty small mall-styled location, right?
This kind of behavior isn't exclusive to GW. Independent bookstores have the same attitude, as does a chain called "CD Warehouse". It's pretty simple business:
It doesn't attract customers if people are just sitting around inside. It just makes it look like a place to hang out, not a place of business.

Nope, not a mall based store. Part of a 'strip mall'. Before the store was relocated was actually in a mall and I never had any problems before, even when I'd just sit around all day maybe hoping for a game or something.

Yeah, well sadly Games Workshop stores have two different kinds of thought processes to them.
They're run like businesses, not like the guy who owns his own hobby shop. They've got limited space, and people loitering doesn't really attract "good" attention like seeing people actively playing or a revolving door of people going in, buying things, and leaving with their purchases.

Now all of these complaints so far seem pretty petty but it gets a wee bit better.

You know that there's no boxed set for "Neophytes", right? That's probably part of why he was giving you problems.

And that GW policy, as it stands right now, is that if you've got an item you're trying to return/exchange past a certain window(30 days---same as any other retail chain really)--you need a receipt and the item can't be opened.

No, I didn't ask for anything, just for an exchange. I'm aware that there are only 'Scout' boxes.
Okay cool.

But does he know that? The guy likely, as the trend is now they don't want "hobbyists first, businesspeople second" running their shops, has very little knowledge about the game systems.

Seeing where I'm coming from here?

And at this point, if I was him and I had a customer coming in telling me "No, it's okay customer service said they'd straighten it all out and give you a call." when I had received no call...I would find your story slightly hard to believe too.

While in all likelihood you're 100% on the up and up, not everyone who tries to do things like that are. They ruin it for the rest of us.

I didn't say, "Nah brah! It's cool! Customer service said it'll be alright!" I thought that maybe they gave him a call and he talked to him. I wanted a reason as to why he still gave me the metaphorical finger. He told me he never got a call (though I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at that point). So I told him I'd call them again.

I didn't say that you did the "Nah brah!" bit. But again: people do try stuff like that.
To use an anecdotal experience...
The FLGS I used to work at had one customer who continually bought things online from discounters/ebay, and anytime he had something wrong with the contents he'd call us up and make his complaint to us rather than GW direct(which is what you're supposed to do in that case really, but we'd still take care of it).

But in his specific case after he tried to scam a Land Raider from us, we'd require the product be returned to the shop so we'd send it on to GW rather than the normal "honors" policy that you see GW implementing(where they let you keep the product and would send a replacement).

You mean wanting products that don't exist?

Yeah, it's killing my Elysian Stormtrooper army

Nope, didn't ask for Neophytes. Just an exchange. I technically wanted a box of Scouts.

All of the behavior he exhibited up untill the return was pretty typical of a GW crony. It was his attitude about the exchange, not to mention the email he sent out. That's about when I decided I wanted to ruin his face... with a fist.

You said you asked for Neophytes "or something".

But seriously. If you tried this at any shop, you'd likely get the same attitude. It's a hassle for the employee when there's no receipt or record of the transaction with the storefront.

Kanluwen wrote:
Yeah, well sadly Games Workshop stores have two different kinds of thought processes to them.
They're run like businesses, not like the guy who owns his own hobby shop. They've got limited space, and people loitering doesn't really attract "good" attention like seeing people actively playing or a revolving door of people going in, buying things, and leaving with their purchases.

I understand that's GW's model for their "hobby distribution centers", but out of the three managers I've been through not one of them has had a problem with it. It's a really big downgrade in my opinion. On top of that hearing him say it to a kid just irks me.

But does he know that? The guy likely, as the trend is now they don't want "hobbyists first, businesspeople second" running their shops, has very little knowledge about the game systems.

Seeing where I'm coming from here?

Right, I see where you're coming from. But him not knowing that puts him down as a crappy manager in my book.

I didn't say that you did the "Nah brah!" bit. But again: people do try stuff like that.
To use an anecdotal experience...
The FLGS I used to work at had one customer who continually bought things online from discounters/ebay, and anytime he had something wrong with the contents he'd call us up and make his complaint to us rather than GW direct(which is what you're supposed to do in that case really, but we'd still take care of it).


But in his specific case after he tried to scam a Land Raider from us, we'd require the product be returned to the shop so we'd send it on to GW rather than the normal "honors" policy that you see GW implementing(where they let you keep the product and would send a replacement).

Well I was trying to make an exaggerated example maybe throw in some comedy.
I understand that might happen where you go, but this is my first time trying to make an exchange and I've spent well over a $1000 over the years at this shop alone. And for him to spit in my face like that is really gunna get me steamed.

You said you asked for Neophytes "or something".

But seriously. If you tried this at any shop, you'd likely get the same attitude. It's a hassle for the employee when there's no receipt or record of the transaction with the storefront.

That's right. I would dream trying this at my FLGS and any other store would laugh me out the door. But he's working for a company that makes these transactions all the time and even agreed to let me mail it to them. It's not like I'm pioneering this whole new exchange policy with GW it's been in effect for quite some time.

All this stuff isn't even what got me to post all this, it's the email he sent out to the other GW stores. Claiming that I got the product through illicit means and to "watch out for a disgruntled customer". I got it sent to me from a another manager that I know because he thought it was hilarious (and is to a certain extent). But this whole situation got me liking him less and and less.

And when you say I asked "for a box of Neophytes 'or something'." That was what me and my friend had talked about getting, not me speaking with the manager.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Yeah, well sadly Games Workshop stores have two different kinds of thought processes to them.
They're run like businesses, not like the guy who owns his own hobby shop. They've got limited space, and people loitering doesn't really attract "good" attention like seeing people actively playing or a revolving door of people going in, buying things, and leaving with their purchases.

I understand that's GW's model for their "hobby distribution centers", but out of the three managers I've been through not one of them has had a problem with it. It's a really big downgrade in my opinion. On top of that hearing him say it to a kid just irks me.

Yeah, but again: GW's not a babysitting service like a lot of parents these days try to treat it.

But does he know that? The guy likely, as the trend is now they don't want "hobbyists first, businesspeople second" running their shops, has very little knowledge about the game systems.

Seeing where I'm coming from here?

Right, I see where you're coming from. But him not knowing that puts him down as a crappy manager in my book.

Oh definitely, but again:
They don't want hobbyists first. Hobbyists, they've found for the most part, tended to run the shop like their own private playground.
It's silly, I know. But they can learn the hobby as they go--they can't really learn good business skills that same way.

I didn't say that you did the "Nah brah!" bit. But again: people do try stuff like that.
To use an anecdotal experience...
The FLGS I used to work at had one customer who continually bought things online from discounters/ebay, and anytime he had something wrong with the contents he'd call us up and make his complaint to us rather than GW direct(which is what you're supposed to do in that case really, but we'd still take care of it).


But in his specific case after he tried to scam a Land Raider from us, we'd require the product be returned to the shop so we'd send it on to GW rather than the normal "honors" policy that you see GW implementing(where they let you keep the product and would send a replacement).

Well I was trying to make an exaggerated example maybe throw in some comedy.
I understand that might happen where you go, but this is my first time trying to make an exchange and I've spent well over a $1000 over the years at this shop alone. And for him to spit in my face like that is really gunna get me steamed.

One day Tom Kirby will award Kanluwen that golden ticket and whisk him off to Nottingham to meet the umpalumpas and go on that really weird steamboat trip before giving him Priestly's old desk to work at and a cloak of purest goldswords to wear...

Keep fighting the good fight Kanluwen, you will be rewarded for your unswerving and unquestioned loyalty to the corporation.

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

This is probably true but does not match my experience. I once traded a pack of special weapon kasrkin about 1-2 years after I bought them. They had a backpack missing and I left them in a draw for a while.

Kanluwen wrote:You said he's relatively new to the shop. How is he to actually know that you didn't acquire the product through illicit means?

He doesn't, obviously. But that doesn't alter the fact that it's poor customer service to assume it.

You can't just go around accusing random customers of being thieves without some sort of actual evidence. And for the record 'trying to exchange something without a receipt' is not actual evidence.

Fair enough then, but I tend to err on the sides of the retailer whenever I see complaints like this--if only because I know that customers by and large can be extremely obnoxious when it comes to them believing they're "in the right" on matters like this.

My experience (with nearly 20 years of working in customer service) is actually the opposite. While some customers certainly do like to parade their sense of entitlement around for all to see, the vast majority tend to be far less obnoxious until the guy in the supposed service position starts giving them attitude. Most customers lack the confidence and/or the knowledge of their rights required to actually stand up to the person telling them to just go away.

Any good hobby shop that I've been to offers to swap retail value for equal if it's a gift or something like that.

Can they sell the product as brand new? If so then it is simply a matter of changing 2 inventory numbers, the new item, and the exchanged item.

The store manager at my local GameStop did this when it came up. Someone would get a game as a gift, have no receipt but he'd let them exchange it for something else so long as the game was still sealed and sellable as new.

And as for customer service, there is a saying:
"If we don't help the customer, someone else will".

GW perhaps doesn't realize this, but in a world of online retailers with a CONSTANT 20%+ discount, they should be making every effort to keep people in their stores.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:One day Tom Kirby will award Kanluwen that golden ticket and whisk him off to Nottingham to meet the umpalumpas and go on that really weird steamboat trip before giving him Priestly's old desk to work at and a cloak of purest goldswords to wear...

Keep fighting the good fight Kanluwen, you will be rewarded for your unswerving and unquestioned loyalty to the corporation.

You could do worse than me getting a job at GW taking over Priestly's old job. I mean, did you see my idea for "campaign packs"?

Mark my words! Things would be quite glorious for the playerbase.

Plus: a cloak made out of goldswords would be pretty flippin' sweet.

However, I'm committed to the goal of working in law enforcement. Oh well

Insaniak wrote:He doesn't, obviously. But that doesn't alter the fact that it's poor customer service to assume it.

Oh definitely. It's terrible customer service to assume it, but still. The guy really has no way of telling if your story's true or not.

You can't just go around accusing random customers of being thieves without some sort of actual evidence. And for the record 'trying to exchange something without a receipt' is not actual evidence.

Again: not saying it's the right thing to do or not. The manager probably thinks he was doing the right thing by warning the other managers that someone's trying what, to him at least, appeared to be sketchy means to make an exchange.

My experience (with nearly 20 years of working in customer service) is actually the opposite. While some customers certainly do like to parade their sense of entitlement around for all to see, the vast majority tend to be far less obnoxious until the guy in the supposed service position starts giving them attitude. Most customers lack the confidence and/or the knowledge of their rights required to actually stand up to the person telling them to just go away.

Yeah, it definitely swings both ways. No real doubt about that, but I do know when I worked retail a few years back even being the most polite I could be(which really is polite! Honest! ), a large amount of people continually talked down to me when I pointed them towards the product they were looking for--which was in plain sight several feet away.

Trickstick wrote:This is probably true but does not match my experience. I once traded a pack of special weapon kasrkin about 1-2 years after I bought them. They had a backpack missing and I left them in a draw for a while.

I think it depends on the situation, really. In your case--they were still in the blisterpack, and it was clear they hadn't been tampered with.
But with how Kasrkin are packaged now, in the clear plastic tray and a white box with "Kasrkin" labeled on it--there's a smidge of leeway, and someone could easily scam them if they tried.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

aerethan wrote:Any good hobby shop that I've been to offers to swap retail value for equal if it's a gift or something like that.

Can they sell the product as brand new? If so then it is simply a matter of changing 2 inventory numbers, the new item, and the exchanged item.

The store manager at my local GameStop did this when it came up. Someone would get a game as a gift, have no receipt but he'd let them exchange it for something else so long as the game was still sealed and sellable as new.

And as for customer service, there is a saying:
"If we don't help the customer, someone else will".

With GameStop, they'll take anything you bring to them. It doesn't matter to them, because they'll resell it for(in most cases) double what they give you for it.

GW perhaps doesn't realize this, but in a world of online retailers with a CONSTANT 20%+ discount, they should be making every effort to keep people in their stores.

But there's the flipside to that too.

Why should GW's shop staff help the customer who comes to their storefronts with an issue with the product that they bought from an online retailer?

Hell, why should a FLGS do it?
Especially if the customer comes in with an attitude, or some BS story about "buying it and forgetting their receipt".

Kanluwen wrote:... but I do know when I worked retail a few years back even being the most polite I could be(which really is polite! Honest! ), a large amount of people continually talked down to me when I pointed them towards the product they were looking for--which was in plain sight several feet away.

There's a trick to that one... it's all down to presentation, and not making the customer feel embarrassed for being a numpty. An embarrassed customer can be the worst kind


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Why should GW's shop staff help the customer who comes to their storefronts with an issue with the product that they bought from an online retailer?

Because being willing to help a potential customer can very often make them an actual customer.

At the sort of local GW near me the manager and employees sit around and only talk to you if you look confused, seem to have a wallet, or are a little 10 year old... I rarely go there, and that is why I barely have had any games in.

insaniak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:... but I do know when I worked retail a few years back even being the most polite I could be(which really is polite! Honest! ), a large amount of people continually talked down to me when I pointed them towards the product they were looking for--which was in plain sight several feet away.

There's a trick to that one... it's all down to presentation, and not making the customer feel embarrassed for being a numpty. An embarrassed customer can be the worst kind

No doubt. Even when I would have to go and look for the item myself, they'd get a slight bit jerky.

insaniak wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why should GW's shop staff help the customer who comes to their storefronts with an issue with the product that they bought from an online retailer?

Because being willing to help a potential customer can very often make them an actual customer.

Sure it can, but then some people just want to get the absolute "best deals" and not have to go to a storefront.

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that feeling in some cases--I loathe going to Best Buy or GameStop for that reason. Amazon gets all my video game/dvd business.

But at the same time, it irks me to see people treat GW/FLGSes as their own personal whipping boy in a lot of these cases.
Remember that whole "paying for table use" debacle, where the tables were Games Day quality builds and asking for maybe $10 a month and having unfettered access to playing on the tables?

That's what I think people don't realize they're missing out on when they buy from an online retailer.

But uhh...I think that's another tangent.

I'm not talking about trades, I'm talking about exchanging 100% new merchandise for equal value as the store makes the same margin on them.

And GW should support their products in EVERY facet, regardless of if it was sold by them or one of their resellers. It is still their product and their reputation at the end of the day. They STILL made money on it even if it was bought online at a discount.

aerethan wrote:I'm not talking about trades, I'm talking about exchanging 100% new merchandise for equal value as the store makes the same margin on them.

And GW should support their products in EVERY facet, regardless of if it was sold by them or one of their resellers. It is still their product and their reputation at the end of the day. They STILL made money on it even if it was bought online at a discount.

Not every online discounter is one of their resellers.

In fact, a large majority of the online sales are through eBay...which pretty clearly isn't a GW reseller.

Kanluwen wrote:
I understand that's GW's model for their "hobby distribution centers", but out of the three managers I've been through not one of them has had a problem with it. It's a really big downgrade in my opinion. On top of that hearing him say it to a kid just irks me.

Yeah, but again: GW's not a babysitting service like a lot of parents these days try to treat it.

You guys think too much really, he sounds like the sort of person who would deliberately try to get around the swear filter to me

Don't do that. Ta. - The mod team

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
I understand that's GW's model for their "hobby distribution centers", but out of the three managers I've been through not one of them has had a problem with it. It's a really big downgrade in my opinion. On top of that hearing him say it to a kid just irks me.

Yeah, but again: GW's not a babysitting service like a lot of parents these days try to treat it.

Right. I don't think it is either. But it doesn't mean he can talk to kids like that. But maybe I'm just bias since I'm a childcare worker.

It's fine that we don't agree on that. Like I said, I don't know exactly how he said it, the age of the kid, whatever.
But it really does boil down to the issue I put up earlier:
Having people just sitting around inside the store doing nothing doesn't really make the place look "interesting" to an outside observer.

Oh definitely, but again:
They don't want hobbyists first. Hobbyists, they've found for the most part, tended to run the shop like their own private playground.
It's silly, I know. But they can learn the hobby as they go--they can't really learn good business skills that same way.

Right. I get that. I've seen plenty of redshirts work their way up. Just doesn't settle well with me coming from a blackshirt.

Redshirts and blackshirts really are the same man.
At the end of the day, they're working pretty much for minimum wage at a potentially crummy and aggravating job.

But you said yourself that the guy is relatively new. How's he going to know that you're a big buyer, and not some schmuck walking in trying to sucker him into an exchange that favors you extremely heavily?

Right, which is why I called customer support the first time. I figured they might have changed their exchange policy (or what I perceived it to be). But I suppose that wasn't the case.
And I can give him the benefit of of being new. It was just the second time I went it it really started getting to me.

Honestly, I would have called customer support before going to make the exchange and asked if they'd gotten in touch with the manager yet.
Because for all you know--he may never have gotten the call.

I had called to get 2x replacement Grenade Launcher equipped Kasrkin for some boxes I had bought ages ago but never got around to working on until recently. The CSR flatout said that "We do have a timeframe within which we like you to report issues with products, if only because it helps us track down whatever the issue may have been within that batch."

In your case that's not necessarily what would happen--but, it does still apply in that there is an exchange timeframe.

Okay, I suppose if I had opened it that would be the case. So there is some kind of time frame.

Not much of one really, but it all comes down to the discretion of the employee at the storefront.

If they feel something's sketchy, there's not really much they can do to help you y'know?

Again:
You said he's relatively new to the shop. How is he to actually know that you didn't acquire the product through illicit means?

But that's my gripe. Rather than give a loyal customer the benefit of the doubt he assumes I'm trying to cheat him out of... an exchange.

Again: he doesn't know you're a "loyal customer". You keep saying he's new to the shop, so how will he know you're a loyal customer? They don't put up pictures saying "Trust this guy--he's loyal!".
GW's biggest failing in how they operate their storefronts, especially in accordance with their new 'revolving employee door' policy, is not having a "loyalty" card that is given to you as you make your first purchase.

Fair enough then, but I tend to err on the sides of the retailer whenever I see complaints like this--if only because I know that customers by and large can be extremely obnoxious when it comes to them believing they're "in the right" on matters like this.

Plus it's not like he can tell his side of the story here, so someone has to act as the devil's advocate.

Normally I would stand on the side of the retailer, and I respect that. But once again, the thing that really bugged me is his email he decided to send out to the other GWs like I'm some kind of criminal. Once I get a look at it I'll definitely be making a couple of phone calls.

Personally the guy's just being a douche in my books. The two managers I knew in Toronto (the one in Scarborough town center and Neil from Fairview mall, now closed) both gave you at least store credit.

Generally, if the higher ups at Customer Service gave you the green light, there's nothing the store Manager can say. If he "didnt" recieve this email, then you should call Customer Service again, as well as mention the behaviour of this particular manager. Business management or not, he's going against company policy now. His mass email should also be flagged as a sort of harassment.

However let the situation play out a bit. New GW employees tend to have this view, as it seems to be a policy unique to GW. I've had a similar problem once. I bought a box of Bloodletters and they didnt come with the round bases, so I called up the store and the new clerk answered. He flat out told me he and GW would not give me free items, no matter what, and I should just suck it up. One phone call to GW later I never saw that clerk again, as well as getting a pack of the bases I missed ( as well as two GW Nametags/dogtags. Dont know what they're called, but it's an oval shaped piece of plastic with the Aquilla molded on one side, and a paper card that slips into the clear plastic casing on the other side), all of it free.

If you want to trade the stuff, try Bartertown?

Kanluwen wrote:

aerethan wrote:I'm not talking about trades, I'm talking about exchanging 100% new merchandise for equal value as the store makes the same margin on them.

And GW should support their products in EVERY facet, regardless of if it was sold by them or one of their resellers. It is still their product and their reputation at the end of the day. They STILL made money on it even if it was bought online at a discount.

Not every online discounter is one of their resellers.

In fact, a large majority of the online sales are through eBay...which pretty clearly isn't a GW reseller.

you mean to tell me that if GW product exists outside of it's own distribution centers that GW didn't at least make their wholesale profit on it? EVERY piece of non stolen GW product that is out there at some point was bought FROM GW itself, either at the wholesale or retail price. Either way, GW at least got it's $18 per $35 box out there, so swapping 1 box for another wouldn't cause a loss to GW in any way, as the profit per item sold is the same for ALL wholesale and ALL retail.

If the product can be resold after exchanged for full retail, it won't cause a loss in any way.

aerethan wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

aerethan wrote:I'm not talking about trades, I'm talking about exchanging 100% new merchandise for equal value as the store makes the same margin on them.

And GW should support their products in EVERY facet, regardless of if it was sold by them or one of their resellers. It is still their product and their reputation at the end of the day. They STILL made money on it even if it was bought online at a discount.

Not every online discounter is one of their resellers.

In fact, a large majority of the online sales are through eBay...which pretty clearly isn't a GW reseller.

you mean to tell me that if GW product exists outside of it's own distribution centers that GW didn't at least make their wholesale profit on it? EVERY piece of non stolen GW product that is out there at some point was bought FROM GW itself, either at the wholesale or retail price. Either way, GW at least got it's $18 per $35 box out there, so swapping 1 box for another wouldn't cause a loss to GW in any way, as the profit per item sold is the same for ALL wholesale and ALL retail.

If the product can be resold after exchanged for full retail, it won't cause a loss in any way.

"Loss" isn't necessarily the product itself though.
It also includes the time the employee spends restocking the item, making sure nothing's lost or damaged, etc.

And they can't immediately repost the product, especially if there's no receipt and it's been opened.

So really all it boils down to is that he's new and doesn't follow the policy that GW has lain out.

I can see why he wont give an exchange so easily, but knowing I haven't done anything wrong really gnaws at the back of my head.

Well, we don't know that he didn't follow the policy exactly.

You may feel that he treated you badly, but I'm trying to be objective here.

I can't get the information from him about how it all went down.

Well the way I see it is if the company is willing to give me an exchange and he isn't, he isn't exactly following orders.

I'm not talking about OPENED items. I'm talking still shrink wrapped. And don't try to say how long it takes to "restock" something at a GW retail store. It's not the same as a store like AutoZone that has thousands of products to handle.

It takes under 3 minutes to locate and stock anything in a GW store. It would take me under 3 minutes as a customer in a new layout to find what I want in there.

Yeah, but it all comes down in the end to:

Did he really get the phone call from customer service saying to let you get an exchange?

Because if he didn't get the phone call, then he treated you as best as he felt that he could with his own limited experience in the matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

aerethan wrote:I'm not talking about OPENED items. I'm talking still shrink wrapped. And don't try to say how long it takes to "restock" something at a GW retail store. It's not the same as a store like AutoZone that has thousands of products to handle.

It takes under 3 minutes to locate and stock anything in a GW store. It would take me under 3 minutes as a customer in a new layout to find what I want in there.

Clearly, you're just looking for reasons to whine about GW.

It doesn't matter that the product is "still shrink wrapped". They still have to send it back to GW proper, in most cases, where it's inspected and then repackaged.

It's wasteful, and it's a very GW practice.

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, but it all comes down in the end to:

Did he really get the phone call from customer service saying to let you get an exchange?

Because if he didn't get the phone call, then he treated you as best as he felt that he could with his own limited experience in the matter.

So then he just sucks at customer satisfaction issues.

EVERY retail store I've come across has a little code in their POS system that says "customer sat" and generally is a discount % at the store managers discretion. Heaven forbid a manager smooth over a trifle of a situation and just make the exchange, knowing that the brand new product(provided still wrapped) can be sold as new.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know for a fact that GW sends all returns and exchanges back to a DC? No store in their right mind would send back new merch to a dc. Then again, GW may very well not be in their right mind.

I do appreciate the argument though. Helps me blow off some steam and at least get a look from another set of eyes.

Pen≥Sword wrote:I do appreciate the argument though. Helps me blow off some steam and at least get a look from another set of eyes.

That's all I intend to make happen!

That and get my cloak of golden swords and chocolate desk.

Although the Email was still a dick move on his part. If he really was suspicious about a customer he should have called up Customer Service himself before sending out the email, in which case they should have told him he was in the wrong (going by what I can see here). He may be the manager of this store but I dont think he has the authority to start telling other stores to deny you a particular service (in this case, Customer Satisfaction Services).

Pen≥Sword wrote:"This is Games Workshop. If you aren't gaming, working or shopping, then get out."

Had a similar experience, but this was on a veterans night. Now i've been going to GW, the same store, for 14 years and spent god knows how much money in that store. So one gaming night i turn up to watch some friends play a game as i'm feeling a little stuffy and didn't want a game myself. So i walk in, wait for my friends and start watching before the manager asks me if i have my case and if i don't i can leave... so everyone except 2 guys left, went to the pub, and played inquisitor.

Heres a list of other things thats p***ing me off a little...

---No specialist games - This is not limited to just playing... we're not even aloud to write out a necro gang on a scrap of paper in the corner. Hell, even the pub lets us play BFG and Inq (with terrain, as long as we buy drinks!)
---Not painting? No sitting! - Unless your a girl or a friend of the manager.
---Got a nice conversion? - It has to be inspected beforehand by the manager to ensure its a high enough % of GW parts (And remember, conversions arn't opponents conscent, its the managers!)
---Want an apocplypse game? - Have to book it... even if 6 of you want to play, and your the only 6 in the store on a veterans night, and you've been the only 6 for several weeks (everyone else has gone to an IS that has a large back room for tables, but you have to pay... so meh...)
---Like being talked down to? - This is the place for you! I know GW staff work with alot of kids but it'd be nice if adults could talk to other adults in an mature fashion (yes, i know were playing with toy soldiers)

This is not to mention the high staff turnover, most of which i get on with and end up knowing outside of gw... and its usually down to the manager.

Subject 1 - Would most likely punch the manager if he ever saw him
Subject 2 - Quit
Subject 3 - Considered moving back home, the managers treatment sealed the deal
Subject 4 - Transferred to another store
Subject 5 - Transferred to another store
Subject 6 - Transferred to another store
Subject 7 - Transferred to another store
Subject 8 - Diagnosed with anxiety caused by the managers treatmnet, transferred to another store

Thats just the ones i know about, some staff members simply leave never to be seen again.

And don't get me started on pushy selling, selling is good i understand that, and pushing the sale can be good for business. But theres only so much pushing you can do before you start to push people into the IS at the other end of town.

As for the tables... urg... theres less tables than there used to be, and are supposed to be ready for vets night from 3pm and are usually brought out and set up at 5pm if were lucky.

/rant

Every time I read these, I get the impression that GW Helsinki must be the best-staffed GW store in the whole world, pretty much. Even our numpties are above the baseline, if the anecdotes are representative.

That's because Finns are awesome.

It's not poor customer service at all. The manager is setting up a demo board to attract new business from customers, that's what he's paid to do and how G.W make money by selling products to the customer and showing them what they get for their money. I see no problem in that.

I'm not surprised the manager wouldn't exchange the item, after all you've got no proof you brought it from there. Without receipt you've got no backup to say you brought it from that store and no proof of purchase so he's doing right of else you could be ripping off the store (not saying you are) by getting stuff you want at their cost.

I think at the end of the day you're just getting upset and throwing your toys out your pram because you're not getting your own way. The manager isn't being a "douche" at all and is behaving in a perfect manner.

What I do not like is the message sent out supposedly by the manager to warn against the customer. I'd understand more if the person threw a hissy fit in front of the manager...

As a retail worker/salesman/store manager for years, I know that you can't make everybody happy. Even good staff have bad days.

That said, even if everybody knows that some customers are lying, or rude, or have unrealistic expectations, you cannnot use that as an excuse. Customer service is about making customers happy, and sometimes that involves taking it on the chin (either by being polite, making a refund, or even admitting that you are wrong).

In addition, having reasons for actions or policies doesn't change the fact that when those actions are in opposition to industry or corporate practice, people are going to be upset. Yeah, it's not the job of a GW store to babysit. But they often do, so when one doesn't, it's noteworthy.

The bottom line is that most people when they get their first taste of real authority tend to try it out, and often go a bit too far. It's not shocking or surprising, but it doesn't make it right.

If nothing else, the manager in question could have done a better job of explaining himself. But doing things that actually make sense but being oddly cryptic and heavy handed about them will rocket him up the managment ranks at GW...

Well .. on a simple note, it sounds like the issue has become personal with the manager (at least thats how it sounds).

One of the main rules of working in retail is that you should never let that happen.

The customer is always right (well.. 99% of the time), and for a small fry issue like this (in terms of how much money the store would be set to lose) the smart issue would have just been to make the swap, rather than risk potentially negative feedback.

To be honest I'm a little surprised that this was posted from the US (I expected perhaps UK), normally customer services in the U.S. stands pretty tall compared to other places.

Pacific wrote:The customer is always right (well.. 99% of the time), and for a small fry issue like this (in terms of how much money the store would be set to lose) the smart issue would have just been to make the swap, rather than risk potentially negative feedback.

To be honest I'm a little surprised that this was posted from the US (I expected perhaps UK), normally customer services in the U.S. stands pretty tall compared to other places.

It's the nature of US Gw stores. Most have a single full time employee, called the manager but who really is just running the shop. Given the pay (low) and the expectations (high), few experienced retail managers would take the job, as even with the Employee discount you could do better managing elsewhere.

So you end up with relatively unqualified people trying to run a very service intensive operation. Inexperience + lack of direct supervision = trouble. Seriously, in what other shop would you be unable to talk to an employee with more than a few months experience with the company?

mercer wrote:It's not poor customer service at all. The manager is setting up a demo board to attract new business from customers, that's what he's paid to do and how G.W make money by selling products to the customer and showing them what they get for their money. I see no problem in that.

I'm not surprised the manager wouldn't exchange the item, after all you've got no proof you brought it from there. Without receipt you've got no backup to say you brought it from that store and no proof of purchase so he's doing right of else you could be ripping off the store (not saying you are) by getting stuff you want at their cost.

I think at the end of the day you're just getting upset and throwing your toys out your pram because you're not getting your own way. The manager isn't being a "douche" at all and is behaving in a perfect manner.

Poor customer service is exactly what it is. At any other retail store they would never let me make an exchange. However, it's GW's product and it's their policy to make such an exchange. It seems especially strange over a matter of $24.

Now to mention the temp manager was more than happy to make the exchange

But really it isn't the exchange that bothers me so much as it is the email he sent out.

eh? our guy was great back in perth city area

He is the kind of guy who informs another player that the grey hunters are like "good" CSM in terms of equipment

they got bolter, bolt pistol and CCW, He naturally have an SW army , a case of em. He also teaches me how to pin, magnet(yes he told me to magnet my termies) and how to use marine in a really small point game

Pen≥Sword wrote:Poor customer service is exactly what it is. At any other retail store they would never let me make an exchange. However, it's GW's product and it's their policy to make such an exchange. It seems especially strange over a matter of $24.

That's really the heart of the matter: the guy didn't follow his own corporate policy.

There's a general rule that it's cool to be more generous than policy, but bad to be stricter.

Depends if it's a current box or not. No point taking in duff stock you can't flog.

Also depends what he's been taught.

But yeah, let's all wail on someone not in a position to defend himself.

Mr Mystery wrote:Depends if it's a current box or not. No point taking in duff stock you can't flog.

Also depends what he's been taught.

But yeah, let's all wail on someone not in a position to defend himself.

What on earth are you talking about? Isn't that what you and Kanluwen are here to do?

Ketara wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Depends if it's a current box or not. No point taking in duff stock you can't flog.

Also depends what he's been taught.

But yeah, let's all wail on someone not in a position to defend himself.

What on earth are you talking about? Isn't that what you and Kanluwen are here to do?

It sadly seems like it on most days.

Mr Mystery wrote:Depends if it's a current box or not. No point taking in duff stock you can't flog.

Also depends what he's been taught.

But yeah, let's all wail on someone not in a position to defend himself.

It's been my experience that GW stores will take back anything NIB, as long as it's currently on the shelf. So it can't be an old box, or old specialist games stuff.*

That said, the OP's story was that he had bought bloodletters and wanted to trade them for scouts. I'm doubting that bloodletters have gotten a new package in the three years since they were released, but I could be wrong.

It's possible that the manager in question was poorly trained, in which case he's just doing what he was told. Sending out the email about a "problem customer", especially when another store manager in the area finds it unusual, probably wasn't part of his training.

I don't think anybody is "wailing" on anybody. I think the OP raised some concerns that ranged from mildly concerning (the email) to simply odd (refusing an exchange when customer service agreed to not only take it back but pay the shipping) to matters of taste (use of tables and how exactly to deal with loiterers).

But I think that documenting a negative customer experience at a company store is totally appropriate for this forum. I'm interested to hear why you think it isn't.


* I was told they implemented this policy after warmaster went belly up, and people were buying blisters for pennies on the dollar and then exchanging them at GW shops for full priced product.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ketara wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Depends if it's a current box or not. No point taking in duff stock you can't flog.

Also depends what he's been taught.

But yeah, let's all wail on someone not in a position to defend himself.

What on earth are you talking about? Isn't that what you and Kanluwen are here to do?

What's interesting in this thread is that the whole point that the OP was making is that GW managers are usually quite good! Which makes this not a case of GW-bashing, but a discussion of an anomoly.

Now, if I wanted to discuss the merits of GW to an audience that I percieved to be overly hostile to them, I'd use this as an opportunity to point that out.

Now, if I wanted to simply argue and engage in drama...

I thought GW had a no quibble exchange policy, and that as long as it could be resold they'd exchange it

Has to be sealed, and although you don't need the receipt, you can ask for it.

Mr Mystery wrote:Has to be sealed, and although you don't need the receipt, you can ask for it.

So you admit that the manager is in the wrong?

I also agree that the manager should have looked at the potential loss on 1 box versus the potential loss on 1 or 2 customers.

Another customer service saying: "If a customer has a good experience, he'll maybe tell 1 person about it. If that same customer has a negative experience, they will often tell 5 or more people about it."

Bad news travels fast, and any manager should know this. Put out the spark so a full fire doesn't break out.

Edit: Never mind!

aerethan wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Has to be sealed, and although you don't need the receipt, you can ask for it.

So you admit that the manager is in the wrong?

I think he's trying to say that the manager didn't do anything illegal or against strict company written policy.

It's just against practice, that's all.

The fun thing is, the bloodletters are worth almost 3 bucks more than the scouts-its a trade down for the OP to exchange them down for the scouts. But a simple solution would have been for the manager to call corporate with the OP there and just double check. As manager, he should have realized that was an acceptable (and decent) decision to be made The email sent out was BEYOND wrong, and I would second the suggestion to call corporate. It really does sound like he just had it in for you, and GW never even asks where you got the product from-it's their product, they made their initial price, so they have no issue with correcting mistakes, no matter the source.

@Kanluwen, I just had to call GW about a box of Genestealers that I just opened from 94 (yes, wicked old, and bought second-hand but still in shrinkwrap) and the sprues were malformed-the guy said even though they didn't make them any more, he had no problem sending out a replacement, and if it is a model in plastic it isn't too much trouble to fix, but they won't replace OOP metal models that have been remade-this happened Thursday, so it's a pretty accurate timeframe of their replacement policy.

The current Amsterdam manager is okay, if suffering a bit from "stick up my butt". I do miss Swan, he ran the Amsterdam store for a long time and did a great job of keeping people happy.

Definatly call Corporate about the email without naming the store that told you about the email, also mention about not recommending visting that GW store to freinds.

timetowaste85 wrote:The fun thing is, the bloodletters are worth almost 3 bucks more than the scouts-its a trade down for the OP to exchange them down for the scouts. But a simple solution would have been for the manager to call corporate with the OP there and just double check. As manager, he should have realized that was an acceptable (and decent) decision to be made The email sent out was BEYOND wrong, and I would second the suggestion to call corporate. It really does sound like he just had it in for you, and GW never even asks where you got the product from-it's their product, they made their initial price, so they have no issue with correcting mistakes, no matter the source.

@Kanluwen, I just had to call GW about a box of Genestealers that I just opened from 94 (yes, wicked old, and bought second-hand but still in shrinkwrap) and the sprues were malformed-the guy said even though they didn't make them any more, he had no problem sending out a replacement, and if it is a model in plastic it isn't too much trouble to fix, but they won't replace OOP metal models that have been remade-this happened Thursday, so it's a pretty accurate timeframe of their replacement policy.

That's actually kind of amusing about the Genestealers I have to wonder if he only did it because there's an existing product that correlates with what you had issues with?

What were the metal models that you had problems with?

Kanluwen wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:The fun thing is, the bloodletters are worth almost 3 bucks more than the scouts-its a trade down for the OP to exchange them down for the scouts. But a simple solution would have been for the manager to call corporate with the OP there and just double check. As manager, he should have realized that was an acceptable (and decent) decision to be made The email sent out was BEYOND wrong, and I would second the suggestion to call corporate. It really does sound like he just had it in for you, and GW never even asks where you got the product from-it's their product, they made their initial price, so they have no issue with correcting mistakes, no matter the source.

@Kanluwen, I just had to call GW about a box of Genestealers that I just opened from 94 (yes, wicked old, and bought second-hand but still in shrinkwrap) and the sprues were malformed-the guy said even though they didn't make them any more, he had no problem sending out a replacement, and if it is a model in plastic it isn't too much trouble to fix, but they won't replace OOP metal models that have been remade-this happened Thursday, so it's a pretty accurate timeframe of their replacement policy.

That's actually kind of amusing about the Genestealers I have to wonder if he only did it because there's an existing product that correlates with what you had issues with?

What were the metal models that you had problems with?

No problems with metal models: he just gave me a rundown about what they couldn't take back, in case I ever had a problem in the future with metal models-he wanted me to know way ahead of time. Awesome customer service. Should have new genestealer parts in the mail in the next few days-the arms had been missing the entire elbow area-split into two small arm sections and there were no fingers/claws-just didn't form in the mold. He just said he was going to send out stuff from the new genestealers to fix what was wrong-first he said a new box, then said sprue bitz of arms, so I have no idea what's coming-as long as it fixes the messed up models, I'm happy.

I would call customer services, asking if they called him. If they did, say he lied flat about it, and if they didn't ask hem to. Say he won't let you trade in stuff, and that he's told all LGSes to do the same.

Why didn't you just call customer service in front of him and then had the representitive talk to the manager?

Taoofss wrote:Why didn't you just call customer service in front of him and then had the representitive talk to the manager?

I guess I didn't want to be that big a dick.... or maybe it's because I didn't want to stand there on hold glaring awkwardly at him.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Why didn't you just call customer service in front of him and then had the representitive talk to the manager?

I guess I didn't want to be that big a dick.... or maybe it's because I didn't want to stand there on hold glaring awkwardly at him.

So flamming him anonymously on a forum where he can't defend himself and where we would only get one side of the story is being less of a dick?

All you had to do was take out your cell phone, call customer service, you didn't have to "glare" at him, give him the cell phone when you had the issue resolved. Like you previously stated, he is new, so he may not be familiar with all of the policies.

Taoofss wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Why didn't you just call customer service in front of him and then had the representitive talk to the manager?

I guess I didn't want to be that big a dick.... or maybe it's because I didn't want to stand there on hold glaring awkwardly at him.

So flamming him anonymously on a forum where he can't defend himself and where we would only get one side of the story is being less of a dick?

All you had to do was take out your cell phone, call customer service, you didn't have to "glare" at him, give him the cell phone when you had the issue resolved. Like you previously stated, he is new, so he may not be familiar with all of the policies.

Rather than making a public scene of it? Yes, I would say a thread on an internet forum is much more appropriate.

And like I've said. I didn't get really angry until he flammed me without letting me give my side of the story to other GW managers.

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Why didn't you just call customer service in front of him and then had the representitive talk to the manager?

I guess I didn't want to be that big a dick.... or maybe it's because I didn't want to stand there on hold glaring awkwardly at him.

So flamming him anonymously on a forum where he can't defend himself and where we would only get one side of the story is being less of a dick?

All you had to do was take out your cell phone, call customer service, you didn't have to "glare" at him, give him the cell phone when you had the issue resolved. Like you previously stated, he is new, so he may not be familiar with all of the policies.

Rather than making a public scene of it? Yes, I would say a thread on an internet forum is much more appropriate.

And like I've said. I didn't get really angry until he flammed me without letting me give my side of the story to other GW managers.

A public scene? How much of a public scene would it have been to say, "hold on a sec," walk outside or to the side of the store, call customer service and after asking about the policy, hand your phone to the GW guy? No scene at all.

He didn't flame you. He wrote an email telling the other GW stores in the area about what happened. He didn't say "shady customer," he said "disgruntled" which was in response to your attitude. Also, you do have an opportunity to defend yourself because if you go into another GW and they asked you about what happened, you can explain what happened. You ARE flaming him by calling him "worst manager of all time." Why you choose to belittle him for having limited gaming experience is beyond me.

Your friend who told you about the contents of the email is the one who deserves to lose his job. The in-company emails are private. He crossed a line when he share its contents with you. Not only was that incredibly unprofessional, he also broke company policy.

Taoofss wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Why didn't you just call customer service in front of him and then had the representitive talk to the manager?

I guess I didn't want to be that big a dick.... or maybe it's because I didn't want to stand there on hold glaring awkwardly at him.

So flamming him anonymously on a forum where he can't defend himself and where we would only get one side of the story is being less of a dick?

All you had to do was take out your cell phone, call customer service, you didn't have to "glare" at him, give him the cell phone when you had the issue resolved. Like you previously stated, he is new, so he may not be familiar with all of the policies.

Rather than making a public scene of it? Yes, I would say a thread on an internet forum is much more appropriate.

And like I've said. I didn't get really angry until he flammed me without letting me give my side of the story to other GW managers.

A public scene? How much of a public scene would it have been to say, "hold on a sec," walk outside or to the side of the store, call customer service and after asking about the policy, hand your phone to the GW guy? No scene at all.

He didn't flame you. He wrote an email telling the other GW stores in the area about what happened. He didn't say "shady customer," he said "disgruntled" which was in response to your attitude. Also, you do have an opportunity to defend yourself because if you go into another GW and they asked you about what happened, you can explain what happened. You ARE flaming him by calling him "worst manager of all time." Why you choose to belittle him for having limited gaming experience is beyond me.

Your friend who told you about the contents of the email is the one who deserves to lose his job. The in-company emails are private. He crossed a line when he share its contents with you. Not only was that incredibly unprofessional, he also broke company policy.

Claiming I acquired it through illicit means without any proof (and also untrue) isn't flaming?
Maybe that's how it would have went down with you, but after going through it with him twice and getting the snarky 'screw you' attitude I just didn't want to be in that store anymore.
I'm not belittling him for lacking gaming experience, I'm belittling him for refusing to practice standard GW procedure. BNesides that point not having gaming experience with any of the GW when you're managing the store doesn't seem like it scores him any points regardless. Hire a coach that's never played or coached baseball in his life, the fans will definitely love you for it.
I don't think he crossed the line at all. You just said yourself I could defend myself if it came up, yet if he tells me about it he crosses the line?

The only direct quote from the email you gave us was: "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters." I was not aware he said anything other then that. That being said, he sent the email out in private and not with the intention of belittling. He was protecting the interest of the store he works in. If he had posted a description of you on the outside of his store windows, then I could understand why you would be up in arms.

For you to get upset about an email you should have never seen and then openly flaming this person on a public forum is very petty.

As for your friend, he crossed a huge line. If GW knew who he was, I can assure you at the very least, he would be firmly reprimanded and possibly even fired depending on his standing with GW.

Taoofss wrote:[So flamming him anonymously on a forum where he can't defend himself and where we would only get one side of the story

while I agree that you should call customer services and give him the phone, technically, in that email the manager sent, the manager was only giving one side of the story where the guy couldn't defend himself.

Taoofss wrote:The only direct quote from the email you gave us was: "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters." I was not aware he said anything other then that. That being said, he sent the email out in private and not with the intention of belittling. He was protecting the interest of the store he works in. If he had posted a description of you on the outside of his store windows, then I could understand why you would be up in arms.

For you to get upset about an email you should have never seen and then openly flaming this person on a public forum is very petty.

As for your friend, he crossed a huge line. If GW knew who he was, I can assure you at the very least, he would be firmly reprimanded and possibly even fired depending on his standing with GW.

Well, going a little through the thread I give a little bit more about it. And quite honestly I don't think he was doing it to "protect the interest of the store". For him to tell othe GW to watch out for me and treating a regular customer like some kind of heeby jeeby boogeyman isn't exactly a professional quality.

Mhm, it is petty. But you can honestly say I shouldn't be upset in the least? It should just roll over me and I should just act like nothing happened? I'd rather vent my frustration and get a good debate out of someone and cool off that way rather than escalate things more.

Thread at Dakka about bad GW stores? Check.

Customer who feels wronged by GW? Check.

The Kan breathlessly fighting to defend GW's honour regardless of reason or logic? Check.

MeanGreenStompa ridiculing the Kan for his antics? Check.

Said ridicule passing right over the Kan's head? Check.

The Kan's inevitable reply where he attempts to mimic this post in a horrifically failed attempt at biting wit? Soon to be check.



It's just another day at Dakka!

*cue Dakka Dakka High theme music*

Oh HBMC, why aren't you Prime Minister or something????

Taoofss wrote:The only direct quote from the email you gave us was: "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters." I was not aware he said anything other then that. That being said, he sent the email out in private and not with the intention of belittling. He was protecting the interest of the store he works in.

Do you know this? Or are you simply trying to pass supposition off as fact?

And reading intent is hard, especially when there are multiple reasons for any given act. A manager can deny a refund based on a violation of policy that's rarely enforced, and claim it's due to the policy, when it's really for a personal or petty reason.

For you to get upset about an email you should have never seen and then openly flaming this person on a public forum is very petty.

This reminds me of the classic story of the woman who read her husbands email and found proof that he had been cheating on her. When she confronted him, his response was "why were you going through my email?"

As for your friend, he crossed a huge line. If GW knew who he was, I can assure you at the very least, he would be firmly reprimanded and possibly even fired depending on his standing with GW.

Well, except for the fact that the reason he'd be fired would be less due to sharing priviliegef information, but sharing information that makes GW look bad. It doesn't change the fact that the email in question probably shouldn't have been sent.

Taoofss wrote:Not only was that incredibly unprofessional, he also broke company policy.

Aren't you supposed to be arguing here that breaking company policy is a good thing? Because the first manager did it.

Pen≥Sword wrote:Recently my local GW store had a change in managerial staff. I wasn't going to hold any grudges against this new guy, it wasn't like it was his fault our old manager got fired. The old manager was let go for various GW reasons; having events, giving customers "real" hobbying advice (like how to build tables and terrain from non-overpriced-GW-product) and where to get such materials... y'know a real ass .

So the new manager shows up and the first thing he does is cover one of our three gaming tables with a "hobby intro table", the kind of table where the three starter sets are built and painted for a 4+ rolling adventure for the new, interested hobbyist (or that random schmuck who wandered in from Taco Bell). After getting to know about him I found out he had been in the hobby for a staggering 6 months and doesn't own a single army (although I guess he started Skaven just for the occasion). Another cute and very corporate thing of him to say to a younger hobbyist, who at the time was sitting in one of the chairs there, "This is Games Workshop. If you aren't gaming, working or shopping, then get out."

Now all of these complaints so far seem pretty petty but it gets a wee bit better.

A few months back I bought a box of Bloodletters for a friend of mine. He is starting an all 'Zerkers army and I figured I'd get him a cheap scoring unit for not that much money out of my wallet. Months go by and he never really builds them and I start getting interested in Black Templars. Since he plays Grey Knight he got all excited about it and wanted me to build my army up nice and fast. So when we were trying to come up with way for some easy scratch he suggested we exchange the Bloodletters for a box of Neophytes or something. So I go to the store to make an exchange. The new manager told me I'd need a receipt or the record of my purchase in the system. So he can't find it and tells me I'm outta luck. I thought this was strange, becauce normally you don't need either to make an exchange. A day later I called customer service, wondering if they chaged the exchange policy. I was told they hadn't and they'd call the new manager to straighten things out.

Okay cool.

So I go in a couple days later, bringing the box up to him asking if I can exchange it now. He gives me a weird look and starts talking to me with this frustrated tone of voice, talling me he can't do it, we've already been through this... blah blah blah. I tell him I called customer service and they said they'd straighten it all out and give him a call. He shakes his head. "Nope, never got a call."
At this point I'm getting noticeably peeved. I turn and leave telling him I guess I'l just exchange it somewhere else and give customer service another call.

Just last night I get a call from a friend of mine (a manager in the same region) and he tells me he got an email that was sent out from the new manager to all the other GW mangers in the region telling them to be on the look out for a "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters". Apparently, he thingk I got them from some illicit means and now I'm trying to get something free out of it.

Now I just want to punch the in the face. I'm never going back to that store and at this point refuse to buy anything directly from GW. All because I wanted a box of Neophytes.
/rant

Anyone else have any problems like this?

You have to use thier own powers against them, and turn to the tools of the infernal corperation.
IE the consumer service line- 1- 800- 394- 4263, who will then direct you to the correct department, or help you themselves.

Your issue is that you've generally just got yourself a NEWB manager with a overinflated sense of self.

A number of your issues can be chalked up to genuine misunderstandings, and the others can be solved by just going up and talking to the guy. Seriously, this is an ingroqwn issue with new guy managerial types, who want to put on a tough guy front, but hoinestly are in the position for a whopping three to five minutes. In laymens terms, we call that the napoleon complex. It comes about with guys fron fast food joints, stores, newly aquired positions of authority.
He's probibly not really a jackass, he's more then likely more then a little overwhelmed with his position, and is trying to fill someone else who was better at it's shoes. It isn't personal, and to deal with it, you can't make it personal.

"So the new manager shows up and the first thing he does is cover one of our three gaming tables with a "hobby intro table", the kind of table where the three starter sets are built and painted for a 4+ rolling adventure for the new, interested hobbyist (or that random schmuck who wandered in from Taco Bell). After getting to know about him I found out he had been in the hobby for a staggering 6 months and doesn't own a single army (although I guess he started Skaven just for the occasion). Another cute and very corporate thing of him to say to a younger hobbyist, who at the time was sitting in one of the chairs there, "This is Games Workshop. If you aren't gaming, working or shopping, then get out."
This sort of an issue is petty. Sure, it might look serious, but when you pull out your wallet, and then just without a word start counting your money right there in front of him, or you call him out on it, you won't have too much more of an issue the next time you come in.
Don't be confrontational, don't say anything to provoke him, or give him a reason to continue the pogue count. Just count your money and ignore him. He will very well likely want to push the issue, and then thats where you will have him.
If he goes on any more then a minute or so, I'd be very ssuprised. Then you are going to go over look him in the face, and then ask who is in charge of the store, you want to talk to the management.
( Don't add anything in there, just say what I told you to, because YOU will be expasperating the issue, instead of being a consumer, trying to deal with an unplesent situation in a company store.)

After the rigum in roll, write up the incident, and then contact GW, USA. who deals with the US stores. They should be contacted, given a rundown of the situation, and then you explain your dissatisfaction for being treated in such a disrespectful manner, don't add anything in there, or lie. Just tell them the situation, tell them that they have a guy in there that needs to have someone calm him the heck down, or that you won't go back there. The genuine issue that you have is that the so called manager disrespected customers. ( A defiante No No by the big red book) and that you were made to feel insulted by the staff of the GW store in question. When you convey that to the main office, they're going to take notice, and make a little mark in the naughty book. After a few calls and reports of this type, they will send in the secret shoppers, and see the acivity for themselves.

"So I go in a couple days later, bringing the box up to him asking if I can exchange it now. He gives me a weird look and starts talking to me with this frustrated tone of voice, talling me he can't do it, we've already been through this... blah blah blah. I tell him I called customer service and they said they'd straighten it all out and give him a call. He shakes his head. "Nope, never got a call."
At this point I'm getting noticeably peeved. I turn and leave telling him I guess I'l just exchange it somewhere else and give customer service another call.

Just last night I get a call from a friend of mine (a manager in the same region) and he tells me he got an email that was sent out from the new manager to all the other GW mangers in the region telling them to be on the look out for a "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters". Apparently, he thingk I got them from some illicit means and now I'm trying to get something free out of it. "

This one is a little more , how should we say, delicate.

This guy is a typical TFG, pure and simple. You obviously arn't going to get your guys back, but on the same token, he went out there and shot that TFG E-mail out about the issue. You can easily go one of two ways, one- You can ignore it and let it ride, seeing as it happened a minute or two ago, and you can probibly get over it and bouce back, but keep it as a chalk up, when he does something like this again.

The second thing to do is to confront him about it and outright ask him WTF? If you get a copy of the E mail, that is an added bonus, especially when you start calling him on it, and threaten to sue his ass for calling you a shill and a thief, and that he's got no backbone for spreading your issue out to the world, and that you will be expecting a written apology, or you call up the head office, a second or third time on the guy and explain THIS issue to them. Demand a written policy letter on refunds, and then keep it along with the E mail copy for later use. ( Muh ha ha ha)

This cat arbitrarily called you a thief, and a liar. Obviouslty he thinks he's in a position of authority, so the best way to handle it is to go over his head to his boss and call him on his attitude, and his actions, when all you were trying to do was to refund and exchange a boxed set for something of similer or equal value. Iceing on the cake would be to get a copy of the E mail, but the phone call should do, especially if it is because of the same store.

You draw a line in the sand at that point and outright call him on it, tell him the next time he calls you a thief, he'd better have some proof, all you wanted to do was exchange something, and he wanted to take it to DEFCON 4.
You throw the BS flag at that point, and direct this issue to his bosses in the regeonal level.

. Any other issues of this sort, I would be going to your local Chamber of Commerce, and filing a complaint, or calling your Better Buisness Beureu and filing one there, as well. It'snot even a question of telling all of your pals to avoide the place like the plague, and to continue to call in with legitimate complaints when they continue to arise. ( With a tool like that, you won't even need to make them up, seriously.)

The cat obviously want's attention, so give him what he wants.

Do you know this? Or are you simply trying to pass supposition off as fact?

As opposed to the alternative? Which would be what? The GW manager is a complete prick and just did it to screw with the OP?

And reading intent is hard, especially when there are multiple reasons for any given act. A manager can deny a refund based on a violation of policy that's rarely enforced, and claim it's due to the policy, when it's really for a personal or petty reason.

Like the OP said, the manager was new, he was just following store procedures. How would you know it as due to petty reasons? The OP never said as much.

This reminds me of the classic story of the woman who read her husbands email and found proof that he had been cheating on her. When she confronted him, his response was "why were you going through my email?"

This statement is moronic. Take a step back and look at what you just compared. Are you serious? A classic story? I literally loled for 5 minutes after reading that.

Well, except for the fact that the reason he'd be fired would be less due to sharing priviliegef information, but sharing information that makes GW look bad. It doesn't change the fact that the email in question probably shouldn't have been sent.

It was your opinion base off of only one side of the fact that the email shouldn't have been sent. Also, it's your assumption on why his friend would be fired. Prior to working for any company, you have to sign a policy that outlines what could and could not be shared. If you break said policy, you have grounds for dismissal. It doesn't matter what kind of information is shared.

How does sharing that email make GW look bad? Ask anyone whose worked at a chain-retail store. Those emails are pretty common practice. When I worked at radioshack in college, we were instructed to file a report of any minor incidences and sent them to the DM. The DM would then post those in the store to store email system. I would receive about five or six such reports every week.

Where is the quote from the OP that the manager of GW said anything about him being a liar or a thief? The only quote anyone got was the bit about "disgruntled." All we got was third hand information about that email.

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

Ketara wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

And once again:
New manager who had never dealt with the customer before, outside of the customer coming in with no receipt and wanting an exchange for a product they'd had for months.

Not saying it's 100% the most sensible thing, but the guy was likely doing what he felt was best.

Taoofss wrote:

Do you know this? Or are you simply trying to pass supposition off as fact?

As opposed to the alternative? Which would be what? The GW manager is a complete prick and just did it to screw with the OP?

Well, you could not speak authoritativley. You can offer all the supposition you'd like, and not make it sound like fact. And yeah, one good alternative is that the super serious professional that GW hired out of nowhere may have made a business decision based on personal vendetta. It happens all the time, to the extent that few if any retail managers don't do it from time to time.

And reading intent is hard, especially when there are multiple reasons for any given act. A manager can deny a refund based on a violation of policy that's rarely enforced, and claim it's due to the policy, when it's really for a personal or petty reason.

Like the OP said, the manager was new, he was just following store procedures. How would you know it as due to petty reasons? The OP never said as much.

I don't know it's for any reason. I do know that people can follow procedure for petty reasons. If you've never done anything correct for terrible reasons, you're missing out on a good time.

This reminds me of the classic story of the woman who read her husbands email and found proof that he had been cheating on her. When she confronted him, his response was "why were you going through my email?"

This statement is moronic. Take a step back and look at what you just compared. Are you serious? A classic story? I literally loled for 5 minutes after reading that.

Well, if you laughed, than it accomplished more than you did in your statement.

Well, except for the fact that the reason he'd be fired would be less due to sharing priviliegef information, but sharing information that makes GW look bad. It doesn't change the fact that the email in question probably shouldn't have been sent.

It was your opinion base off of only one side of the fact that the email shouldn't have been sent. Also, it's your assumption on why his friend would be fired. Prior to working for any company, you have to sign a policy that outlines what could and could not be shared. If you break said policy, you have grounds for dismissal. It doesn't matter what kind of information is shared.

Fair enough. Not all companies have such policies. Hell, I work with medical records all day and I've never signed one. Of course, I'm more worried about losing my license than my job. I guess that's a good point, but I think it's still worht noting that neither of us know if anybody really violated policy.

How does sharing that email make GW look bad? Ask anyone whose worked at a chain-retail store. Those emails are pretty common practice. When I worked at radioshack in college, we were instructed to file a report of any minor incidences and sent them to the DM. The DM would then post those in the store to store email system. I would receive about five or six such reports every week.

Laying off employess is also common, but it makes companies look bad. I think you're viewing this with the knowledge that customers really do cheat and lie all the time, and holding that job is thankless and crappy. But most people don't, and instead of seeing relatively common practice, see somebody spreading rumors. I think enough people here think less of the guy that my point holds.

Where is the quote from the OP that the manager of GW said anything about him being a liar or a thief? The only quote anyone got was the bit about "disgruntled." All we got was third hand information about that email.

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Depends what you mean by wrong, I suppose. And that's assuming you take him at face value that he never got a call from customer service to accept the exchange.

I think his reactions were less than optimal.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

And once again:
New manager who had never dealt with the customer before, outside of the customer coming in with no receipt and wanting an exchange for a product they'd had for months.

Not saying it's 100% the most sensible thing, but the guy was likely doing what he felt was best.

So what you're saying is he's a bad manager? And therefore really shouldn't have the job?

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

And once again:
New manager who had never dealt with the customer before, outside of the customer coming in with no receipt and wanting an exchange for a product they'd had for months.

Not saying it's 100% the most sensible thing, but the guy was likely doing what he felt was best.

So what you're saying is he's a bad manager? And therefore really shouldn't have the job?

No, I'm saying that you need to go back and reread the thread, because you got a pretty key fact wrong.

Saying "leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled" assumes that the manager actually knows the OP is a repeat customer.

He doesn't know that, what with him being a new manager.

Quite frankly here's the series of things a normal manager should have done in this situation:

Politely tell the customer that they cannot have an exchange unless they had a record or a receipt.

Customer rebuttles, saying they were told by GW Customer Service and a phone call should have been made.

Manager tells him that he did not receive the phone call, but will check with his superiors about it as soon as he can, and while he doesnt need to apologise, he can always say he's sorry for the inconvenience, ask the customer to call again, and if the customer has proof or the phone call comes in, the manager will be glad to comply. Alternatively, he could have himself called up customer service on the spot (either asking the customer first and doing it discreetly if he was nice, or just doing it and making a scene if he was a douche) and gotten the word.

What the Manager shouldnt do is sent out a red flag email to everyone in the district.

Personally this guy had much more ways of handling it without provoking someone. Business management or not Company Policy comes first.

I don't understand why everyone is taking such offense at the email.

It was an internal company email sent to notify other stores about an unhappy customer. It's not even clear that the manager in question was trying to convince other managers not to exchange it for him. He was just saying "Hey, there's this upset customer, here's why."

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

And once again:
New manager who had never dealt with the customer before, outside of the customer coming in with no receipt and wanting an exchange for a product they'd had for months.

Not saying it's 100% the most sensible thing, but the guy was likely doing what he felt was best.

So what you're saying is he's a bad manager? And therefore really shouldn't have the job?

No, I'm saying that you need to go back and reread the thread, because you got a pretty key fact wrong.

Saying "leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled" assumes that the manager actually knows the OP is a repeat customer.

He doesn't know that, what with him being a new manager.

What's him not knowing its a repeat customer got to do with the price of cheese?

He went against company policy on exchanges, which means he either didn't know it or didn't want to follow it(making him a bad manager). And he left a customer feeling disgruntled. Which, as pointed out, is so clearly the objective of a good manager, right?

See, most stores have these hi-tech apparatus these days called telly-phones. And what a good manager would do, upon hearing this chap had spoken to customer service, is if he's feeling doubtful, put through something called a telephone conversation to Customer Service, to clarify exactly what the policy entails, and whether it should be applicable in this case. Instead of leaving the customer feeling disgruntled.

Ergo, he is a bad manager.

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

And once again:
New manager who had never dealt with the customer before, outside of the customer coming in with no receipt and wanting an exchange for a product they'd had for months.

Not saying it's 100% the most sensible thing, but the guy was likely doing what he felt was best.

So what you're saying is he's a bad manager? And therefore really shouldn't have the job?

No, I'm saying that you need to go back and reread the thread, because you got a pretty key fact wrong.

Saying "leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled" assumes that the manager actually knows the OP is a repeat customer.

He doesn't know that, what with him being a new manager.

What's him not knowing its a repeat customer got to do with the price of cheese?

He went against company policy on exchanges, which means he either didn't know it or didn't want to follow it(making him a bad manager). And he left a customer feeling disgruntled. Which, as pointed out, is so clearly the objective of a good manager, right?

See, most stores have these hi-tech apparatus these days called telly-phones. And what a good manager would do, upon hearing this chap had spoken to customer service, is if he's feeling doubtful, put through something called a telephone conversation to Customer Service, to clarify exactly what the policy entails, and whether it should be applicable in this case. Instead of leaving the customer feeling disgruntled.

Ergo, he is a bad manager.

I'm sorry, you were there to know that he didn't call Customer Service after the guy left? Or that maybe he felt the guy was being slightly jerky to him?

Seriously. I figured you would have realized by now that taking these kinds of stories at face value is more gullible than believing there were WMDs in Iraq.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

All far as a retail perspective, that manager did nothing wrong.

Because leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled is clearly the right way to approach business. No doubt for his amazing examples, he'll shortly be heading up the US division of GW.

And once again:
New manager who had never dealt with the customer before, outside of the customer coming in with no receipt and wanting an exchange for a product they'd had for months.

Not saying it's 100% the most sensible thing, but the guy was likely doing what he felt was best.

So what you're saying is he's a bad manager? And therefore really shouldn't have the job?

No, I'm saying that you need to go back and reread the thread, because you got a pretty key fact wrong.

Saying "leaving a repeat customer feeling disgruntled" assumes that the manager actually knows the OP is a repeat customer.

He doesn't know that, what with him being a new manager.

What's him not knowing its a repeat customer got to do with the price of cheese?

He went against company policy on exchanges, which means he either didn't know it or didn't want to follow it(making him a bad manager). And he left a customer feeling disgruntled. Which, as pointed out, is so clearly the objective of a good manager, right?

See, most stores have these hi-tech apparatus these days called telly-phones. And what a good manager would do, upon hearing this chap had spoken to customer service, is if he's feeling doubtful, put through something called a telephone conversation to Customer Service, to clarify exactly what the policy entails, and whether it should be applicable in this case. Instead of leaving the customer feeling disgruntled.

Ergo, he is a bad manager.

I'm sorry, you were there to know that he didn't call Customer Service after the guy left? Or that maybe he felt the guy was being slightly jerky to him?

Seriously. I figured you would have realized by now that taking these kinds of stories at face value is more gullible than believing there were WMDs in Iraq.

See, a good manager would have done the call on the spot in front of them. Y'know, assures the customer you're doing something? Not only that, why would he call afterwards if he's already decided he's not going to do the exchange? If there was any doubt in his mind on this one, why would he call them afterwards? The customer wouldn't be in the shop to swap the goods with!

That's a pitiful defence Kan. Saying that I should mistrust what did and didn't occur is irrelevant, because neither you or me were there. You have to assume at face value here that you've heard is true. Otherwise, there'd be no point in posting anything on this message board at all. Every time someone posted a picture of their army, you'd have people wailing, 'How do we know you painted it! You probably mugged a golden demon winner and stole that model!'

Ketara wrote:
See, a good manager would have done the call on the spot in front of them. Y'know, assures the customer you're doing something? Not only that, why would he call afterwards if he's already decided he's not going to do the exchange? If there was any doubt in his mind on this one, why would he call them afterwards? The customer wouldn't be in the shop to swap the goods with!

Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

That's a pitiful defence Kan. Saying that I should mistrust what did and didn't occur is irrelevant, because neither you or me were there. You have to assume at face value here that you've heard is true. Otherwise, there'd be no point in posting anything on this message board at all. Every time someone posted a picture of their army, you'd have people wailing, 'How do we know you painted it! You probably mugged a golden demon winner and stole that model!'

No, I'm saying that you should take it with a grain of salt. Just like anything you hear on the Internet, really.

How many of these threads do we have come up where someone complains about their local store, and then gets called out by another local for skewing the facts? Or where they keep changing facts as time goes on?

Kanluwen wrote:Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Isnt that basically the definition of a Bad Manager?

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Isnt that basically the definition of a Bad Manager?

No. It's the definition of an "unexperienced manager".

They're not necessarily bad managers, but they can become them.

Or they can become that fabled beast, the "fantastic manager who everyone loves".

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:
See, a good manager would have done the call on the spot in front of them. Y'know, assures the customer you're doing something? Not only that, why would he call afterwards if he's already decided he's not going to do the exchange? If there was any doubt in his mind on this one, why would he call them afterwards? The customer wouldn't be in the shop to swap the goods with!

Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Therefore making him....a bad manager?

Kanluwen wrote:

That's a pitiful defence Kan. Saying that I should mistrust what did and didn't occur is irrelevant, because neither you or me were there. You have to assume at face value here that you've heard is true. Otherwise, there'd be no point in posting anything on this message board at all. Every time someone posted a picture of their army, you'd have people wailing, 'How do we know you painted it! You probably mugged a golden demon winner and stole that model!'

No, I'm saying that you should take it with a grain of salt. Just like anything you hear on the Internet, really.

How many of these threads do we have come up where someone complains about their local store, and then gets called out by another local for skewing the facts? Or where they keep changing facts as time goes on?

Take what with a grain of salt? Presuming the manager acted in the aforementioned way, in my judgment, he is a bad manager. If the situation never occurred, than my judgement would hypothetical, but not wrong. It would still apply to the given scenario.
The pinch of salt is unnecessary, because I'm not currently in a position where it is required. Whether right or wrong, accurate or inaccurate, the story has no bearing on my life beyond the initial post. There's no incentive on my part to doubt him with no prior evidence. So why should I bother? I have better things to do with my time than go around mistrusting and questioning every anecdotal story I read on the internet. As long as the scenario is plausible, and the poster has no bad track record, I'm perfectly happy to take their described situation at face value, because there is no benefit for me not doing so. As I said, you have to assume people are generally telling the truth, or I'd have to start wildly hypothesizing about you being Tom Kirby or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Isnt that basically the definition of a Bad Manager?

No. It's the definition of an "unexperienced manager".

They're not necessarily bad managers, but they can become them.

Or they can become that fabled beast, the "fantastic manager who everyone loves".

An unexperienced manager is poorly trained manager, and thus a bad manager.

He cannot do his job well. He does it badly.

Therefore he is a bad manager.

Kanluwen wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Isnt that basically the definition of a Bad Manager?

No. It's the definition of an "unexperienced manager".

They're not necessarily bad managers, but they can become them.

Or they can become that fabled beast, the "fantastic manager who everyone loves".

Managers have to, yano, manage people and general store stuff. If they're inexperienced they really shouldn't have been picked for the job. Having a clue about the job tends to be a priority when you're MANAGING people and merchandise, because if anything does go wrong, who do you think is the first to blame and who's head is on the chopping block first?

In the same vein you wouldnt send a Football coach to a soccer team. God forbid he tells them to toss the ball with his hands if he doesnt have any idea what he's doing.

so this a 6-month gamer turned manager, who refuses to trade a product- breaking the trading rules- and telling all nearby stores to do the same...and he isn't a bad manager?

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:
See, a good manager would have done the call on the spot in front of them. Y'know, assures the customer you're doing something? Not only that, why would he call afterwards if he's already decided he's not going to do the exchange? If there was any doubt in his mind on this one, why would he call them afterwards? The customer wouldn't be in the shop to swap the goods with!

Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Therefore making him....a bad manager?

Because I'm sure you were an expert, amazing employee with your first job even after training.

Kanluwen wrote:

That's a pitiful defence Kan. Saying that I should mistrust what did and didn't occur is irrelevant, because neither you or me were there. You have to assume at face value here that you've heard is true. Otherwise, there'd be no point in posting anything on this message board at all. Every time someone posted a picture of their army, you'd have people wailing, 'How do we know you painted it! You probably mugged a golden demon winner and stole that model!'

No, I'm saying that you should take it with a grain of salt. Just like anything you hear on the Internet, really.

How many of these threads do we have come up where someone complains about their local store, and then gets called out by another local for skewing the facts? Or where they keep changing facts as time goes on?

Take what with a grain of salt? Presuming the manager acted in the aforementioned way, in my judgment, he is a bad manager. If the situation never occurred, than my judgement would hypothetical, but not wrong. It would still apply to the given scenario.
The pinch of salt is unnecessary, because I'm not currently in a position where it is required. Whether right or wrong, accurate or inaccurate, the story has no bearing on my life beyond the initial post. There's no incentive on my part to doubt him with no prior evidence. So why should I bother? I have better things to do with my time than go around mistrusting and questioning every anecdotal story I read on the internet. As long as the scenario is plausible, and the poster has no bad track record, I'm perfectly happy to take their described situation at face value, because there is no benefit for me not doing so. As I said, you have to assume people are generally telling the truth, or I'd have to start wildly hypothesizing about you being Tom Kirby or something.

Pft, if I were Tom Kirby I wouldn't be on Dakka. I'd be on Warseer, basking in the loving glow of the people.

Kanluwen wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Isnt that basically the definition of a Bad Manager?

No. It's the definition of an "unexperienced manager".

They're not necessarily bad managers, but they can become them.

Or they can become that fabled beast, the "fantastic manager who everyone loves".

An unexperienced manager is poorly trained manager, and thus a bad manager.

He cannot do his job well. He does it badly.

Therefore he is a bad manager.

Again:
Training means nothing. You can be trained in all kinds of different ways, but they're poor substitutes for actual experience and customer feedback.

And despite what you might be thinking...
Customer feedback? It's not given on Internet Forums that have absolutely nothing to do with the shop in question.

From everything that's been said here, the manager apparently did one of two things:

1.) he honestly didnt know about company policy and didnt bother to check, meaning he's rather neglegent and undertrained, or the sudden rush of "power" got to his head.

2.) He got really worked up on this one customer and forgot policy (anger does cloud the mind), however it makes it really ridiculous that he got worked up over one box of bloodletters.

Kanluwen wrote:No, I'm saying that you should take it with a grain of salt. Just like anything you hear on the Internet, really.

How many of these threads do we have come up where someone complains about their local store, and then gets called out by another local for skewing the facts? Or where they keep changing facts as time goes on?

Some Cars are lemons.
My vehicle is a care.
Therefore my vehicle is a lemon.

Wait.

There's no real reason to doubt the OP's credibilty. I mean, I'm not saying we boycott the store in question, but I see no reason not to be aware that the manager of that store might be more prickly about things than most.

Aside from the thread title, the OP never really engaged in any hyperbolic depictions. Nothing seems unbelievable. And nobody is really calling for the guys head, but for some reason you seem to think that there is some sort of problem with this thread.

Kanluwen wrote:Internet Forums...have absolutely nothing to do with the shop in question.

and thus we aren't biased towards either party.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Isnt that basically the definition of a Bad Manager?

No. It's the definition of an "unexperienced manager".

They're not necessarily bad managers, but they can become them.

Or they can become that fabled beast, the "fantastic manager who everyone loves".

Managers have to, yano, manage people and general store stuff. If they're inexperienced they really shouldn't have been picked for the job. Having a clue about the job tends to be a priority when you're MANAGING people and merchandise, because if anything does go wrong, who do you think is the first to blame and who's head is on the chopping block first?

You do realize the majority of GW operations here in the US(and from what I understand--parts of the UK/Europe) are one employee, right?
They're de facto managers, but are essentially registerjockeys.

shrike wrote:so this a 6-month gamer turned manager, who refuses to trade a product- breaking the trading rules- and telling all nearby stores to do the same...and he isn't a bad manager?

One of the things the OP made a point of mentioning is that the guy had no experience with GW games prior to being hired. It's not a case of "he was a gamer turned manager". He's a 6 month manager.

And again:
"bad manager" is subjective. He's unexperienced. I'm sure if we took a look at your employment history, your early employers thought you were a "bad employee" at some point.

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:
See, a good manager would have done the call on the spot in front of them. Y'know, assures the customer you're doing something? Not only that, why would he call afterwards if he's already decided he's not going to do the exchange? If there was any doubt in his mind on this one, why would he call them afterwards? The customer wouldn't be in the shop to swap the goods with!

Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Therefore making him....a bad manager?

Because I'm sure you were an expert, amazing employee with your first job even after training.

Believe it or not, I have a part time job with a massive emphasis on customer relations. The company is terrible, and I was put out with virtually no training. But ya know what?

As long as you're polite and reasonable, and do everything you can to help the customer, its quite easy to be an 'expert amazing employee' in customer relations.

Pft, if I were Tom Kirby I wouldn't be on Dakka. I'd be on Warseer, basking in the loving glow of the people.

Ah! But that could be a trick! You're really Jervis Johnson, aren't you?

See, that's what happens when you doubt everything people say online.

Again:
Training means nothing. You can be trained in all kinds of different ways, but they're poor substitutes for actual experience and customer feedback.

And despite what you might be thinking...
Customer feedback? It's not given on Internet Forums that have absolutely nothing to do with the shop in question.

Actual experience? He had to pick up a phone. And be polite.

If he can't think of these two things on his own, he's terrible at managing a store, and is thus a bad manager.

Kan is always arguing about stuff like this with a string of nonsensical fallicies. I really should stop giving a damn.

In anycase, bar one or two people, it seems that the majority thinks this manager did something wrong. While the customer might have been in the wrong for asking for an exchange on an item a good few months old, getting a green light from upper management at Customer service was the right thing to do. The manager had equal opportunity to do the same in a polite manner, but evidently didnt (as Ketara pointed out, calling CS after the customer has left would have been pointless).

EDIT:

Ketara wrote:
Ah! But that could be a trick! You're really Jervis Johnson, aren't you?

See, that's what happens when you doubt everything people say online.

Now that has me paranoid XD

I think the term "bad manager" is being misused. I think I would say that the manager in question handled a few situations in a ham fisted manner that are not what an experience retail manger would do.

If nothing else, an experienced manager would know how to tell people that decisions that go against the customer are mandated from above him, and attempt to build rapport. Even if you say something like "I'm sorry, according ot the district manager I'm not allowed to do returns without a reciept or computer record. this is a new policy, and if you want to give me your name and number I'll try to get it waived. I'm pretty new so I need to keep my nose clean, but I might be able to get an approval from above. I'll give you a call when I find out."

In my experience, simply acknowledging the problem and making some attempt to resolve it keeps a customer happy most of the time.

Kanluwen wrote:

shrike wrote:so this a 6-month gamer turned manager, who refuses to trade a product- breaking the trading rules- and telling all nearby stores to do the same...and he isn't a bad manager?

One of the things the OP made a point of mentioning is that the guy had no experience with GW games prior to being hired. It's not a case of "he was a gamer turned manager". He's a 6 month manager.

And again:
"bad manager" is subjective. He's unexperienced. I'm sure if we took a look at your employment history, your early employers thought you were a "bad employee" at some point.

So...he's a bad manager. It's rare for a guy to work in GW in thier first year of gaming, let alone becoming a MANAGER in your first few DAYS.
He knows barely anything about it and thus is a bad manager. If 90% of 11-year-olds has more knowledge in tactics and the rules than the store manager, that means he's a bad manager, doesn't it?

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Ketara wrote:
See, a good manager would have done the call on the spot in front of them. Y'know, assures the customer you're doing something? Not only that, why would he call afterwards if he's already decided he's not going to do the exchange? If there was any doubt in his mind on this one, why would he call them afterwards? The customer wouldn't be in the shop to swap the goods with!

Sure, a good manager who'd been working in customer service for years beforehand and isn't the only employee at that shop would have done that.

But the guy likely is working for his first bloody time in retail and has no clue what the hell he's doing.

Therefore making him....a bad manager?

Because I'm sure you were an expert, amazing employee with your first job even after training.

Believe it or not, I have a part time job with a massive emphasis on customer relations. The company is terrible, and I was put out with virtually no training. But ya know what?

As long as you're polite and reasonable, and do everything you can to help the customer, its quite easy to be an 'expert amazing employee' in customer relations.

And who says he wasn't "polite and reasonable" in his first encounter with this customer?

It's the second encounter that forms the crux of this whole issue for me. The guy either felt too uncomfortable calling GW CS and asking if yes, they had indeed told this customer to bring his item in for a refund/exchange(in which case, yeah. He might just be a bad employee and should be relegated to stocking shelves for the rest of his life.) or he felt the OP was trying to scam him.

Pft, if I were Tom Kirby I wouldn't be on Dakka. I'd be on Warseer, basking in the loving glow of the people.

Ah! But that could be a trick! You're really Jervis Johnson, aren't you?

See, that's what happens when you doubt everything people say online.

Haha! Wrong again! I'm truly Andy Chambers in disguise!

Again:
Training means nothing. You can be trained in all kinds of different ways, but they're poor substitutes for actual experience and customer feedback.

And despite what you might be thinking...
Customer feedback? It's not given on Internet Forums that have absolutely nothing to do with the shop in question.

Actual experience? He had to pick up a phone. And be polite.

If he can't think of these two things on his own, he's terrible at managing a store, and is thus a bad manager.

shrike wrote:So...he's a bad manager. It's rare for a guy to work in GW in thier first year of gaming, let alone becoming a MANAGER in your first few DAYS.
He knows barely anything about it and thus is a bad manager. If 90% of 11-year-olds has more knowledge in tactics and the rules than the store manager, that means he's a bad manager, doesn't it?

That doesn't make him a bad manager. Hell, even if everything the OP says is true, that doesn't make him bad at his job. There's a reason most workers only have annual reviews: nobody wants to be judged based on their worst week.

If I were a betting man, it's just a young man that has a little taste of authority and is taking the job overly seriously and hasn't learned the fine art of handling people. He very well might end up bad, and get flushed out. Or he might learn and improve.

Or just not a people person or felt his newfound power was being impinged upon or any number of things.

You don't need to automatically jump to "bad manager" to explain these things.

See, I would class someone who allowed either of those two things to stop him from effectively managing a store as a bad manager.

Seriously, what would he have to do to not be one in your eyes? Chase the customer out with a shotgun?

Kanluwen wrote:
One of the things the OP made a point of mentioning is that the guy had no experience with GW games prior to being hired. It's not a case of "he was a gamer turned manager". He's a 6 month manager.

And again:
"bad manager" is subjective. He's unexperienced. I'm sure if we took a look at your employment history, your early employers thought you were a "bad employee" at some point.

Contradictory post here again. If he did indeed have 6 months worth of management experience he's hardly "unexperienced" (btw the proper word is "inexperienced"). Even a newbie manager would know to pick up the phone and actually call customer service. Hell I've actually had a manager do that for me when I was bitz-ordering (back when you could still order bitz off the GW website). 5 minutes worth, not that much. And if they are Register Jockeys, then they really shouldn't be questioning Customer Service. Again, one phone call, not that hard. The OP could have done it, but even if he took it outside and came back with phone in hand, no matter how discreet, he's going to be labeled as the guy who "called the boss on him".

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Kan is always arguing about stuff like this with a string of nonsensical fallicies. I really should stop giving a damn.

In anycase, bar one or two people, it seems that the majority thinks this manager did something wrong. While the customer might have been in the wrong for asking for an exchange on an item a good few months old, getting a green light from upper management at Customer service was the right thing to do. The manager had equal opportunity to do the same in a polite manner, but evidently didnt (as Ketara pointed out, calling CS after the customer has left would have been pointless).

Sorry, but of course the majority of people on a site that's well-known for whining about the employees in GW shops feel the manager did something wrong.

If you asked this same question to a group that has no previous experience with GW shops but had worked in retail, we'd likely be seeing different results.

Nothing about what I'm saying is nonsensical or a fallacy. I'm not using strawmen arguments. I'm just saying that "hurr bad manager!" and "YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE FEELS DIFFERENTLY!" isn't an answer. It's an assumption that's quite easily predictable from the atmosphere of "hiss! GW baaad!" that we have here on Dakka.

Ketara wrote:
Ah! But that could be a trick! You're really Jervis Johnson, aren't you?

See, that's what happens when you doubt everything people say online.

Now that has me paranoid XD

If only you knew the truth...

Kanluwen wrote:Or just not a people person or felt his newfound power was being impinged upon or any number of things.

You don't need to automatically jump to "bad manager" to explain these things.

Yeah, i'm not saying he's a bad manger, but if you've got somebody with weak social skills and a power trip running a store, things can end up going poorly. You can quibble over the semantics, but this guy didn't act like a good mananger.

Okay, I feel I need to throw my 2 cents in.

I know the manager that the OP talking about, I go to that store from time to time. In fact, I knew the manager he was talking about within the first 2 paragraphs his first post, without the OP even giving any identifying info. I knew it was the same guy, because everything he's said is absolutely true about him.

On that note, I get along really well with him, and he's given me great service there. My only real complaint is that he does not know what he's talking about sometimes when giving advice.

BUT - what the OP said about his attitude/demeanor is absolutely true.

Also, to finally put to rest all the questions on whether he's a bad manager...he has told me himself he has a dozen or so years of managing experience. That's why he was hired in the first place, given that he does not know much, if anything, about the hobby itself. His selling point to GW when they hired him was that he in fact HAS years of experience as a manager. So given all that, is it alright to dismiss this as inexperience and a learning process in the realm of customer service?

I think even Kan would agree that chasing them out with a shotgun might possibly be a teeny bit on the harsh side...maybe...
he is bad at managing the store, thus he is a BAD MANAGER.
Are we agreed that he didn't handle things well?
Are we agreed that because of him, the OP will no longer be going to that store?

Erudog wrote:Okay, I feel I need to throw my 2 cents in.

I know the manager that the OP talking about, I go to that store from time to time. In fact, I knew the manager he was talking about within the first 2 paragraphs his first post, without the OP even giving any identifying info. I knew it was the same guy, because everything he's said is absolutely true about him.

On that note, I get along really well with him, and he's given me great service there. My only real complaint is that he does not know what he's talking about sometimes when giving advice.

BUT - what the OP said about his attitude/demeanor is absolutely true.

Also, to finally put to rest all the questions on whether he's a bad manager...he has told me himself he has a dozen or so years of managing experience. That's why he was hired in the first place, given that he does not know much, if anything, about the hobby itself. His selling point to GW when they hired him was that he in fact HAS years of experience as a manager. So given all that, is it alright to dismiss this as inexperience and a learning process in the realm of customer service?

See, now with this right here?

This puts him into the category of "meh" manager. He's business oriented, and has bad people skills.

If he had experience then it doesnt put him in a good light imo. It just means that he did know about policy but didnt give a damn about it.

Kanluwen wrote:Sorry, but of course the majority of people on a site that's well-known for whining about the employees in GW shops feel the manager did something wrong.

If you asked this same question to a group that has no previous experience with GW shops but had worked in retail, we'd likely be seeing different results.

That's a poorly chosen second sample. People that have worked in retail would know that actions like that happen all the time. They might also not know the expectancy most people have of making exchanges at the GW stores, or how they are generally run.

And your first point is actually pretty silly, given that people aren't comparing these actions to an FLGS or some hypothetical ideal: they are comparing them to the GW staff they interact with all the time!

I posted earlier that this discussion is grounded in the understanding most of us have that GW has excellent customer service (if a little overzealous to sell). Framing this discussion as the result of inherent anti-GW bias seems inappropriate.

shrike wrote:I think even Kan would agree that chasing them out with a shotgun might possibly be a teeny bit on the harsh side...maybe...
he is bad at managing the store, thus he is a BAD MANAGER.
Are we agreed that he didn't handle things well?
Are we agreed that because of him, the OP will no longer be going to that store?

Yeah, no.

He's bad at handling customers. That doesn't make him a bad manager. What with the fact that he's managing a business like...y'know, a business.

He's got a crummy attitude, if what Erudog says is true and someone needs to bring that up to him so he can work on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sorry, but of course the majority of people on a site that's well-known for whining about the employees in GW shops feel the manager did something wrong.

If you asked this same question to a group that has no previous experience with GW shops but had worked in retail, we'd likely be seeing different results.

That's a poorly chosen second sample. People that have worked in retail would know that actions like that happen all the time. They might also not know the expectancy most people have of making exchanges at the GW stores, or how they are generally run.

And your first point is actually pretty silly, given that people aren't comparing these actions to an FLGS or some hypothetical ideal: they are comparing them to the GW staff they interact with all the time!

Considering most of the people here complain that GW staff are pushy and jerky...yeah, I find it a good example.

I posted earlier that this discussion is grounded in the understanding most of us have that GW has excellent customer service (if a little overzealous to sell). Framing this discussion as the result of inherent anti-GW bias seems inappropriate.

That's not true. Most people feel that GW has excellent customer service--when they're replacing products. Not in actually dealing with the customers.

Erudog wrote:Also, to finally put to rest all the questions on whether he's a bad manager...he has told me himself he has a dozen or so years of managing experience. That's why he was hired in the first place, given that he does not know much, if anything, about the hobby itself. His selling point to GW when they hired him was that he in fact HAS years of experience as a manager. So given all that, is it alright to dismiss this as inexperience and a learning process in the realm of customer service?

Well, if you have a dozen years experience and your managing a GW... you're career is not on an upward arc. No offense, as I dont' know what they make, but probably less than most good managers do after a few years.

Now, he is learning a new industry, and selling the GW hobby is different from other goods. There is a learning curve involved there.

He's a Manager of a shop. Handling customers is *kinda* important. If he's bad at that, there's not much going for him, especially if such positions are basically "register jockeys".

GW customer service has been one of the best I've seen. Personally if not for their high prices the company is actually pretty good. Large bit of the flames come from the fact that GW use to be a hobby-centric company back around the era of 4th edition, which compensated somewhat for their prices, but now largely seems to wanna move products, just that their products are more expensive than everyone else.

Kanluwen wrote:He's bad at handling customers. That doesn't make him a bad manager. What with the fact that he's managing a business like...y'know, a business.

He's got a crummy attitude, if what Erudog says is true and someone needs to bring that up to him so he can work on it.

It certianly means he's lacking a pretty crucial skill, especially at a GW shop where the "managers" are also sales reps. I wouldn't hire a great financier that's bad with numbers to do my taxes. You need customer service skills to run a good GW.

Considering most of the people here complain that GW staff are pushy and jerky...yeah, I find it a good example.

Well, but do people say they are bad at their jobs? it's a big difference

That's not true. Most people feel that GW has excellent customer service--when they're replacing products. Not in actually dealing with the customers.

But... isn't this a quesiton about replacing product? Yeah, it can be annoying to game at a GW store when you're badgered to buy what's new, but the fact that they try to hard to, you know, produce customers is actually in line with good customer service.

You've got to seperate the compalints that GW stores are terrible places for vets to treat as a clubhouse, and that GW staff provide poor customer service.

Erudog wrote:Okay, I feel I need to throw my 2 cents in.

I know the manager that the OP talking about, I go to that store from time to time. In fact, I knew the manager he was talking about within the first 2 paragraphs his first post, without the OP even giving any identifying info. I knew it was the same guy, because everything he's said is absolutely true about him.

On that note, I get along really well with him, and he's given me great service there. My only real complaint is that he does not know what he's talking about sometimes when giving advice.

BUT - what the OP said about his attitude/demeanor is absolutely true.

Also, to finally put to rest all the questions on whether he's a bad manager...he has told me himself he has a dozen or so years of managing experience. That's why he was hired in the first place, given that he does not know much, if anything, about the hobby itself. His selling point to GW when they hired him was that he in fact HAS years of experience as a manager. So given all that, is it alright to dismiss this as inexperience and a learning process in the realm of customer service?

this tones it down somewhat, but TBH, he shouldn't be a manager if he doesn't know much.

Kanluwen wrote:

shrike wrote:I think even Kan would agree that chasing them out with a shotgun might possibly be a teeny bit on the harsh side...maybe...
he is bad at managing the store, thus he is a BAD MANAGER.
Are we agreed that he didn't handle things well?
Are we agreed that because of him, the OP will no longer be going to that store?

Yeah, no.

He's bad at handling customers. That doesn't make him a bad manager. What with the fact that he's managing a business like...y'know, a business.

that's half the job- managers need to be:
-friendly
-be able to answer lots of questions (AKA have knowledge of the game).
-be good at running a business.
as far as I can tell, he has little in the way of knowledge and has poor people skills.

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:He's bad at handling customers. That doesn't make him a bad manager. What with the fact that he's managing a business like...y'know, a business.

He's got a crummy attitude, if what Erudog says is true and someone needs to bring that up to him so he can work on it.

It certianly means he's lacking a pretty crucial skill, especially at a GW shop where the "managers" are also sales reps. I wouldn't hire a great financier that's bad with numbers to do my taxes. You need customer service skills to run a good GW.

Maybe they got good references from his previous employers? Who knows.

Considering most of the people here complain that GW staff are pushy and jerky...yeah, I find it a good example.

Well, but do people say they are bad at their jobs? it's a big difference

Some do, yeah

That's not true. Most people feel that GW has excellent customer service--when they're replacing products. Not in actually dealing with the customers.

But... isn't this a question about replacing product? Yeah, it can be annoying to game at a GW store when you're badgered to buy what's new, but the fact that they try to hard to, you know, produce customers is actually in line with good customer service.

This is a mixed bag I think. I don't think most people here who need to replace their products, do it in store or lack the receipts/register info or whatever.

You've got to separate the complaints that GW stores are terrible places for vets to treat as a clubhouse, and that GW staff provide poor customer service.

I do, but a lot of people here don't when they make their complaints about the GW staff.
GW "providing poor customer service" doesn't mean 'they asked me to leave because I was just hanging around the shop sitting down with my army case in the car'. You're not a 'customer' in any sense there, at least not to me. You're loitering.

Kanluwen wrote:I do, but a lot of people here don't when they make their complaints about the GW staff.
GW "providing poor customer service" doesn't mean 'they asked me to leave because I was just hanging around the shop sitting down with my army case in the car'. You're not a 'customer' in any sense there, at least not to me. You're loitering.

That's not a complaint I heara lot, or if I do it's usually in a context of waiting for a game or talking about the hobby. Maybe there are threads were people complain about that stuff, but I've not experienced it. I wouldn't dare accuse you of making a straw man argument to try to keep an argument going, so I'll just assume that there are threads full of that behavior that I don't read.

It's hard for you to argue that a genuine response to this, from people that think that GW has bad customer service, would be "yeah, that happens all the time." Or "that's why I don't game at a GW store."

When people keep pointing out how GW is almost always better than that, it's really hard to tag the complaint as anti-GW bias.

Polonius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I do, but a lot of people here don't when they make their complaints about the GW staff.
GW "providing poor customer service" doesn't mean 'they asked me to leave because I was just hanging around the shop sitting down with my army case in the car'. You're not a 'customer' in any sense there, at least not to me. You're loitering.

That's not a complaint I heara lot, or if I do it's usually in a context of waiting for a game or talking about the hobby. Maybe there are threads were people complain about that stuff, but I've not experienced it. I wouldn't dare accuse you of making a straw man argument to try to keep an argument going, so I'll just assume that there are threads full of that behavior that I don't read.

It's not that they usually start the threads, if that makes sense. It's people every so often who bring it up whenever someone else says they've had a bad experience at GW owned shops.

It's hard for you to argue that a genuine response to this, from people that think that GW has bad customer service, would be "yeah, that happens all the time." Or "that's why I don't game at a GW store."

When people keep pointing out how GW is almost always better than that, it's really hard to tag the complaint as anti-GW bias.

I rarely see people actually say "GW is better than that"--or at least if I do, it's the same people over and over who say it.

Most just say "This is why I play with my group of friends at home!" or "This is why I only go to my FLGS!".

Again, I must reiterate that my experience with this guy has been fine, for the most part.

I was pretty annoyed when I was getting into the game that I could not refer to him for questions or anything helpful like that, but he has given me good service with some stuff I've purchased there and replaced stuff, etc. We are on a pretty friendly/casual basis though. One thing he told me that really irked me though, "bring your money/wallet here." or something like "if you got money, bring it here."

Not very customer service like to tell someone to bring their money here.

One thing that you must consider though in a job like this: sometimes you end up being a babysitter. Many parents drop their kids off hours at a time here, and it essentially becomes a babysitting job where you're telling kids not to leave drinks/food around, not to cuss, etc, and just plain babysitting really. That can get annoying, and in the case of this store, this is commonplace. So I kind of feel for him in a way, but at the same time, you shouldn't be treating paying customers like that.

Again, he hasn't done wrong by me yet. I have warmed up to him and like going somewhere where I feel welcome everytime (probably because I take my cash there ). But there are a lot of stuff he can improve, including his customer service and especially his knowledge of the hobby. I know he's working on it though. (I think)

Kanluwen wrote:It's not that they usually start the threads, if that makes sense. It's people every so often who bring it up whenever someone else says they've had a bad experience at GW owned shops.

So... "people", every so often, bring this up, which shows the rampant anti-GW shop bias lurking behind this thread.

It's hard for you to argue that a genuine response to this, from people that think that GW has bad customer service, would be "yeah, that happens all the time." Or "that's why I don't game at a GW store."

When people keep pointing out how GW is almost always better than that, it's really hard to tag the complaint as anti-GW bias.

I rarely see people actually say "GW is better than that"--or at least if I do, it's the same people over and over who say it.
Most just say "This is why I play with my group of friends at home!" or "This is why I only go to my FLGS!".

To be fair, I did have to go all the way to the first page of this thread to find the following, so I understand if you haven't read them:

Flashman wrote:No, GW Southampton guy is cool.

Phototoxin wrote:Yes the Southampton guy (aka 'wolverene' due to the awesome hair) is pretty cool

DarkCorsair wrote:Hmm. Probably should call customer service and let them know about this guy. I'm sure this isn't a thing with all GW stores, the guy here in Sterling is awesome.

Murdock129 wrote:GW Guildford, all staff are great and I've personally never had a problem with anyone, same with several others I've been into though Guildford's my main one

Seems you just got it rough by getting a useless idiotic witch in charge of your GW store

chowderhead13 wrote:I was in a GW for about 2 years, and the staff was amazing. 4 tables, at least 1 guy at the ready to help newbie, 1 guy painting, and one guy just helping people with whatever they needed. The manager was a 4-time GD winner, and had some of his amazing pieces on display. He was very humble about it, and was the nicest guy ever.

We were allowed to take covered drinks into the store, which was awesome, as there was a Baskin Robbins (A frappe shop) right next to the place.

Sucks that GW canned the place. It was always packed.

Trickstick wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

This is probably true but does not match my experience. I once traded a pack of special weapon kasrkin about 1-2 years after I bought them. They had a backpack missing and I left them in a draw for a while.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Personally the guy's just being a douche in my books. The two managers I knew in Toronto (the one in Scarborough town center and Neil from Fairview mall, now closed) both gave you at least store credit.
Generally, if the higher ups at Customer Service gave you the green light, there's nothing the store Manager can say. If he "didnt" recieve this email, then you should call Customer Service again, as well as mention the behaviour of this particular manager. Business management or not, he's going against company policy now. His mass email should also be flagged as a sort of harassment.

However let the situation play out a bit. New GW employees tend to have this view, as it seems to be a policy unique to GW. I've had a similar problem once. I bought a box of Bloodletters and they didnt come with the round bases, so I called up the store and the new clerk answered. He flat out told me he and GW would not give me free items, no matter what, and I should just suck it up. One phone call to GW later I never saw that clerk again, as well as getting a pack of the bases I missed ( as well as two GW Nametags/dogtags. Dont know what they're called, but it's an oval shaped piece of plastic with the Aquilla molded on one side, and a paper card that slips into the clear plastic casing on the other side), all of it free.

*stares at thread in disbelief*

[movie trailer voice]

For three pages he defended them.
For three pages he supported them.
Against all odds.
Against all logic.
Against all common sense.
This summer.
A man.
A Kan.
A forum.

Dakka Dakka - The Movie.

He'll rise to their defence, and never ever, ever back down...

[/movie trailer voice]


It must be pathological. It's the only explanation.

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

Quote and/or link please - their T&Cs do not have a time limit for return of faulty goods.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

Quote and/or link please - their T&Cs do not have a time limit for return of faulty goods.

It's not my job to find you facts to try to prove me wrong.

Do your own research.

Please try and show one another a little more respect. Keep in mind that the people you're arguing with love the same things you love, for example. Also keep in mind that being polite is our Rule Number One and violating that rule will lead to suspensions.

H.B.M.C. wrote:*stares at thread in disbelief*

[movie trailer voice]

For three pages he defended them.
For three pages he supported them.
Against all odds.
Against all logic.
Against all common sense.
This summer.
A man.
A Kan.
A forum.

Dakka Dakka - The Movie.

He'll rise to their defence, and never ever, ever back down...

[/movie trailer voice]


It must be pathological. It's the only explanation.

+1000 internets for you, H.M.B.C. I give you my 3rd dakka high-five.

Kanluwen wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

Quote and/or link please - their T&Cs do not have a time limit for return of faulty goods.

It's not my job to find you facts to try to prove me wrong.

Do your own research.

I have done. Neither their return policy or terms and conditions state any limit for return of faulty goods.

So you are wrong. I was giving you an opportunity to back up your point but I guess you don't have anything to back it up with?

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

Quote and/or link please - their T&Cs do not have a time limit for return of faulty goods.

It's not my job to find you facts to try to prove me wrong.

Do your own research.

I have done. Neither their return policy or terms and conditions state any limit for return of faulty goods.

So you are wrong. I was giving you an opportunity to back up your point but I guess you don't have anything to back it up with?

Other than my own experience that I put forward in this thread and having dealt with GW Nottingham's customer service?

Nope, nothing at all to back it up with.

Kanluwen wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Except the GW policy does have a time limit within it for an exchange. Replacement parts even have a relative timeframe.

Quote and/or link please - their T&Cs do not have a time limit for return of faulty goods.

It's not my job to find you facts to try to prove me wrong.

Do your own research.

I have done. Neither their return policy or terms and conditions state any limit for return of faulty goods.

So you are wrong. I was giving you an opportunity to back up your point but I guess you don't have anything to back it up with?

Other than my own experience that I put forward in this thread and having dealt with GW Nottingham's customer service?

Nope, nothing at all to back it up with.

but you did say that anyone can say anything on the internet...
prove it.

shrike wrote:but you did say that anyone can say anything on the internet...
prove it.

Let's stay on-topic, please.

LOL, on the forum index it had 'worst manager of all time? Manchu'. The manager described in the OP just seems like a guy thats bad his job...

Perkustin wrote:LOL, on the forum index it had 'worst manager of all time? Manchu'.

I second this. One of the more reasonable aspects in this thread.

I'm only an assistant manager.

H.B.M.C. wrote:*stares at thread in disbelief*

[movie trailer voice]

For three pages he defended them.
For three pages he supported them.
Against all odds.
Against all logic.
Against all common sense.
This summer.
A man.
A Kan.
A forum.

Dakka Dakka - The Movie.

He'll rise to their defence, and never ever, ever back down...

[/movie trailer voice]


It must be pathological. It's the only explanation.

+40k!

Also, I must point out that in an argument, if you assert something that can only be proven right, you MUST provide the proof yourself. if you submit something that can only be proven wrong, then the responsibility of finding said proof falls upon your opponents. In this case, Kan, you must submit the actual location of where it says the limited time frame, otherwise we're just going on your word, which is not reliable to say the least.

Back on topic: The title of "worst manager" might be a bit harshly applied to this guy, despite his shortcomings. He's no more bullheaded then any TFG (some members of DakkaDakka have proved to be even more bullheaded, and no I'm not refering to Kan. Take a look on any YMDC topic with more than one page). I've certainly seen worse, both in person and from other online tales (while not a manager, one stockboy once threw my stuff on the ground because "only GW items are allowed on the table!". A few middle fingers his way and everything else was fine again, and he brought out the glue to fix my models. No joke, he actually got into a flying rage because of it).

Worst manager for me is a FLGS owner. Nice guy awesome customer service when I am in the store.

The thing that bugs me is the fact that I have shopped there for three years now and he never remembers me. I have dropped thousands of dollars in his store and he always greats me like it’s my first time there. Other than that he is really polite and knows his stuff but after having answered the question of “What do you play?” of newcomers about a thousand times I have chosen to go to a different store more often.

Sorry, but that makes him "worst manager"?

You said yourself he's a nice guy with awesome customer service. He's forgetful to the extreme, yes. But worst manager?

Hey I said worst manager for me not for the whole world. Sorry if thats not what the thread asks. Also I still shop at his store but not as often.

Sorry, I wasn't being snide or anything, I was simply genuinely surprised you'd consider him eligible for "worst manager"...

Sorry I'll just add my 2 cent to this matter.

Both parties are correct in most cases.

OP is correct that the manager in question should need further training in terms of customer service skills and handling situations like exchange of products.

BUT.

Remember that GW at the end of the day is a business, and what businesses does not protect themselves and make profit. I agree with how the manager asked for proof of purchase before exchange take place, like seriously even i would raise a eye brow to someone who comes in and wants to exchange goods without any proof of purchase. It's not personal but it's just business usually.
Here are few reasons why they may not exchange:
1- Could be obtained by illicit means
2- Could be an older product which they no longer stock
3- Obtained via ebay or any other discounted means, hence they lose money if ie. you buy a box of marine for $35 and take it into store to exchange for "equal" value item which the box of marine costs $50 in store normally, so you "gain" $15
4- New Store policy could be they will replace any damaged or mismoulded product bought in store, but not exchanges.
5- Exchanged products is usually a lose for the store because you have to "write off" a product to give it and when stock take comes it will show negatives in certain products and exceed the amount of other product kept for other products.

Thats my 2 cent on the matter, correct me if i'm wrong thanks.

bluedestiny wrote:Remember that GW at the end of the day is a business, and what businesses does not protect themselves and make profit. I agree with how the manager asked for proof of purchase before exchange take place, like seriously even i would raise a eye brow to someone who comes in and wants to exchange goods without any proof of purchase. It's not personal but it's just business usually.

It's really not. It's extremely common for stores, particularly ones run by larger companies, to offer exchanges without proof of purchase. It's good for keeping customers happy, and is a negligible cost to the company.

1- Could be obtained by illicit means

Which makes practically no difference to the store if the item is exchanged for something of equal or lesser value. In fact, the only way this makes any difference to the store is if the item is a slow seller and is being echanged for something that is more popular, as it removes a popular item from the shelf and replaces it with something else. In the case of chain stores where slow-moving stock is just sent back to head office and redistributed as necessary, that's not even an issue.

2- Could be an older product which they no longer stock

That one is potentially an issue... but for a company like GW where even the old stuff will generally still sell or can be used for demo material, not a huge one.

3- Obtained via ebay or any other discounted means, hence they lose money if ie. you buy a box of marine for $35 and take it into store to exchange for "equal" value item which the box of marine costs $50 in store normally, so you "gain" $15

You technically made $15, yes... assuming you couldn't have bought the box you exhanged for at the same place and for the same discount as you bought the original marines... in which case you have just given yourself some legwork for no actual gain.

The store, however, lost nothing, because they just exchanged what is, to them, a $50 item for another $50 item.
GW as a whole likewise lose nothing, as the product was still sold by them at wholesale rates in the first place anyway.

4- New Store policy could be they will replace any damaged or mismoulded product bought in store, but not exchanges.

It could be... but we've had several people so far point out that this isn't the case.

5- Exchanged products is usually a lose for the store because you have to "write off" a product to give it and when stock take comes it will show negatives in certain products and exceed the amount of other product kept for other products.

If the product is written off, it doesn't produce a negative at stocktake... that's the whole point of writing it off. And dollar wise, the product you replace it with balances out the loss on the written off item.

That's assuming they don't put it through as a refund on the returned item and a sale of the new item, which would be the far more common way of doing it as the returned item has to be added to inventory.

At the end of the day I see how a lot of people have pointed out the he is new and probably doesn't know all of GW's policies (the exchange and return policies do seem a bit out there for any other retailer).
I figure I'll go in and maybe talk to him about it just so this whole thing doesn't leave any bad impressions either way.

Pen≥Sword wrote:At the end of the day I see how a lot of people have pointed out the he is new and probably doesn't know all of GW's policies (the exchange and return policies do seem a bit out there for any other retailer).
I figure I'll go in and maybe talk to him about it just so this whole thing doesn't leave any bad impressions either way.

That, my friend, is the biggest and most responsible way to handle situations like these.

While it's great and all to vent anonymously online, people can't learn from their mistakes if noone informs them they made a mistake

Kanluwen wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:At the end of the day I see how a lot of people have pointed out the he is new and probably doesn't know all of GW's policies (the exchange and return policies do seem a bit out there for any other retailer).
I figure I'll go in and maybe talk to him about it just so this whole thing doesn't leave any bad impressions either way.

That, my friend, is the biggest and most responsible way to handle situations like these.

While it's great and all to vent anonymously online, people can't learn from their mistakes if noone informs them they made a mistake

You mean apart from the part where the manger has accused him of stealing?

The manager didn't accuse him of stealing. If you're going to get into an argument, it's a good idea to be careful about your facts.

The manager clearly gave poor customer service, violated company policy on returns, and overstepped himself in a bad way with the email. But we have no reason to believe that the manager accused him of stealing.

Pen≥Sword wrote:At the end of the day I see how a lot of people have pointed out the he is new and probably doesn't know all of GW's policies (the exchange and return policies do seem a bit out there for any other retailer).
I figure I'll go in and maybe talk to him about it just so this whole thing doesn't leave any bad impressions either way.

Indeed GW's own customer service policies are really generous to the customer, possibly to compensate for the rather large premium we pay (or at least they think we pay) for their product. The only other one that comes close is Lego, who offers free replacement pieces for any missing or mis-molded piece, usually with no questions asked, but never does actual exchanges without extensive proof of purchase. Anyone else tend to ask for a receipt and the item in question mailed back to the parent company.

Just Dave wrote:Sorry, but that makes him "worst manager"?

You said yourself he's a nice guy with awesome customer service. He's forgetful to the extreme, yes. But worst manager?

Well.. he does say that is it is for him personally.. so I suspect that the manager Pael is talking about also probably qualifies as the tallest manager, AND the Shortest Manager.. as well as the "manager most likely to play fullback for the Giants" etc...

I figure that he's new, inexperienced, and though might be a really nice guy, but he's just not up to being manager yet. Part-timer? yes. normal employee? yes.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So you are wrong. I was giving you an opportunity to back up your point but I guess you don't have anything to back it up with?

Other than my own experience that I put forward in this thread and having dealt with GW Nottingham's customer service?
Nope, nothing at all to back it up with.

You didn't say "my experience is" you said "GW policy is". And yet their policy does not include these things.

Also, do you really think "I say this is so" constitutes evidence?

GW don't need one as, of course, they're covered by the laws of the land with this regard.


Which in the case of the Uk is 6 months.

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/returning-damaged-or-faulty-goods/?gclid=CIrOq4-2_aYCFcse4QodkQ8rZg

Exactly. GW policy has nothing to say on the subject at all.

porkuslime wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Sorry, but that makes him "worst manager"?

You said yourself he's a nice guy with awesome customer service. He's forgetful to the extreme, yes. But worst manager?

Well.. he does say that is it is for him personally.. so I suspect that the manager Pael is talking about also probably qualifies as the tallest manager, AND the Shortest Manager.. as well as the "manager most likely to play fullback for the Giants" etc...

Exactly, the thread wasn't very specific on the credentials of worst manager so I just named the one I had the most trouble with.

???

Aside from the guys experience, the manager isn't the worst. Not that I'm not enjoying the crazy back and fourth, but the point is being lost that all it was was a bonehead play on the managers part.

Bottom line on it is that the OP just needs to grow up and get used to the idea that people are human, and that in the real world, people do stupid s!@#

He can cowboy up about it, go on about his business, and go on back in to the store, because the manager probibly will not remember him anyway, five minutes later.

Seriously, Kan, the way your going on about it, you'd think that YOU were the manager in question.

DarkCorsair wrote:Hmm. Probably should call customer service and let them know about this guy. I'm sure this isn't a thing with all GW stores, the guy here in Sterling is awesome.

Yup. It also seemed like all the staff in there are pretty cool too (assuming your talking about sterling Virginia)

Wait, there's another shrike?!
NOOOOO!!!!
BTW- It's shadow-captain shrike.

Over the years I've come to know a lot of GW staff in the DC metro area, and from Baltimore down to Richmond. Stores have come and gone, staff and managers have come and gone. For the most part, they have all been fantastic individuals. Only drawback has been that the stores themswelves are way too small for our group, as we need a minimum of 8 tables on club night.
But yes, there's always that one, isn't there. In my case, it was the store manager who told me it didn't matter if I won every game, how well painted my army was, or if all my opponents gave me perfect sportmanship scores, cause I would never ever win a prize in any tournament he ran.

don_mondo wrote:the store manager who told me it didn't matter if I won every game, how well painted my army was, or if all my opponents gave me perfect sportmanship scores, cause I would never ever win a prize in any tournament he ran.

why?!
That guy sounds like a real .

don_mondo wrote:
But yes, there's always that one, isn't there. In my case, it was the store manager who told me it didn't matter if I won every game, how well painted my army was, or if all my opponents gave me perfect sportmanship scores, cause I would never ever win a prize in any tournament he ran.

Did you run away with his girlfriend or something?

With a reply like that one, maybe you should.

Formosa wrote:The manager at GW norwich was heading that way, he seemed really highly strung and to be honest a bit f a douche, then we all got to know him, yes he is buisness orientated.. but i respect that (buisness before pleasure and all that) the more i spoke to him the more i realised we were quite alike.. so he was a douche lol lol

agreed Formosa, all though he's actually a pretty cool guy. It does depend really.

Pacific wrote:Did you run away with his girlfriend or something?

- or to be politically correct- Did you run away with his girlfriend/boyfriend or something?

shrike wrote: Wait, there's another shrike?!
NOOOOO!!!!
BTW- It's shadow-captain shrike.

I feel hurt...Not really , I dont even play ravens, just liked the character .

Wow, that just really sucks. I'll throw in another assurance that the vast majority of GWs don't suck by saying that management at the GW in Ottawa are awesome.

Captain Shrike wrote:

shrike wrote: Wait, there's another shrike?!
NOOOOO!!!!
BTW- It's shadow-captain shrike.

I feel hurt...Not really , I dont even play ravens, just liked the character .

the fluff for him is pretty darn awesome...just a shame the model's like "catch me as I land, I'm shrike the ballerina", as opposed to "I am leaping out of the shadows towards you to cut off your head and then disappear into the darkness".

ok. Picture going to see the movie "Shrike The Ballerina"

Captain Shrike wrote:ok. Picture going to see the movie "Shrike The Ballerina"

If I had the time, I'd make a photoshopped version of him wearing a tutu.

Stockport manager is good; been in the hobby for a lengthy amount of time and has amassed quite an impressive collection of Imperial Fists amongst other armies from the core games to specialist games.

Unfortunately, his hands are tied by GW HQ when it comes to some decisions; we're in need of a larger store or at least the go-ahead to convert upstairs and more gaming boards (currently using two 4x4 foot boards), but last time I checked GW HQ still said no.

I was very surprised to have a close experience to this (not nearly to the extent of the OP). I brought in an unopened blister of a warhawk rider to a GW, that I'd won as a prize at the 'Ard Boyz qualifier at an independent store. I'd had to make an on-the-spot decision on what I wanted, and had changed my mind... and since it was unopened, I figured it'd be no problem to swap it for store credit at the GW.

They gave me a pretty hard time about it at the register... if I remember right I was picking up a $35 box and just wanted to trade the blister in for credit towards it (i.e. I was giving them business on top of it).

I didn't make a conscience decision to stop going there after this, but as it turns out it was my last purchase at that GW. I'm fortunate enough to have a bunch of them in my area, and the one nearest to me has an awesome manager... not sure where the power-trip comes from for others, but it was real surprising, and a major bummer from a customer's perspective who is spending a Lot of money on these products, and giving them a lot of business.

The fact that it occurs multiple places makes me wonder if they're on the lookout for people trading things in they buy at a discount, for full price... however, that doesn't make sense as you can only get store credit, and if you were ordering from a discounter, you could just get what you wanted there and not get in a GW store paying full retail price, anyway.

I think with blisters it's not entirely unreasonable though. Supposedly most of what they have to replace as stolen stock is blisters.

Just last night I get a call from a friend of mine (a manager in the same region) and he tells me he got an email that was sent out from the new manager to all the other GW mangers in the region telling them to be on the look out for a "disgruntled customer trying to exchange bloodletters". Apparently, he thingk I got them from some illicit means and now I'm trying to get something free out of it.

OP - If you know this other manger so well that a) he knows you're trying to exchange some bloodletters, and b) he has your phone number, why don't you just go to his store and do your exchange there?

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:At the end of the day I see how a lot of people have pointed out the he is new and probably doesn't know all of GW's policies (the exchange and return policies do seem a bit out there for any other retailer).
I figure I'll go in and maybe talk to him about it just so this whole thing doesn't leave any bad impressions either way.

Indeed GW's own customer service policies are really generous to the customer, possibly to compensate for the rather large premium we pay (or at least they think we pay) for their product. The only other one that comes close is Lego, who offers free replacement pieces for any missing or mis-molded piece, usually with no questions asked, but never does actual exchanges without extensive proof of purchase. Anyone else tend to ask for a receipt and the item in question mailed back to the parent company.

Replacing defective parts is a requirement of law. Anything sold to someone has to be 'fit for purpose'. If an item is damaged/defective it has to be replaced or you are offered your money back. You shouldn't ever have to send anything back to a parent company, the store that sold it to you is responsible. If you buy a defective GW model from an independent shop then that shop should deal with the problem, you shouldn't need to go to GW direct. Some shops like GW offer to swap goods of equal value or offer store credit on unwanted items that are not defective, no one is required to do this by law, but GW usually do and a lot of clothing shops and the like do as well. But when it comes to replacing defective models GW are obliged to do so, the number of people on this forum who think we pay a premium for GW for offering services that are actually required under consumer law surprises me.

Kanluwen wrote:I think with blisters it's not entirely unreasonable though. Supposedly most of what they have to replace as stolen stock is blisters.

Except that the staff knows me, and are usually on friendly terms, and I spend a fair amount at GW stores in the area. Admittedly, that is not one I frequent as often... but as the staff gets moved around in the area, I knew the person checking me out, which made it even more surprising... and makes me wonder if there's some kind of policy on them challenging customers on this kind of thing (since it seemed rather out of character).

RiTides wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I think with blisters it's not entirely unreasonable though. Supposedly most of what they have to replace as stolen stock is blisters.

Except that the staff knows me, and are usually on friendly terms, and I spend a fair amount at GW stores in the area. Admittedly, that is not one I frequent as often... but as the staff gets moved around in the area, I knew the person checking me out, which made it even more surprising... and makes me wonder if there's some kind of policy on them challenging customers on this kind of thing (since it seemed rather out of character).

*shrug* Maybe.

Maybe they have a new, effective security chip installed in their drones' heads?

Or hell. Maybe they were expecting an evaluation that day.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Pen≥Sword wrote:At the end of the day I see how a lot of people have pointed out the he is new and probably doesn't know all of GW's policies (the exchange and return policies do seem a bit out there for any other retailer).
I figure I'll go in and maybe talk to him about it just so this whole thing doesn't leave any bad impressions either way.

Indeed GW's own customer service policies are really generous to the customer, possibly to compensate for the rather large premium we pay (or at least they think we pay) for their product. The only other one that comes close is Lego, who offers free replacement pieces for any missing or mis-molded piece, usually with no questions asked, but never does actual exchanges without extensive proof of purchase. Anyone else tend to ask for a receipt and the item in question mailed back to the parent company.

Replacing defective parts is a requirement of law. Anything sold to someone has to be 'fit for purpose'. If an item is damaged/defective it has to be replaced or you are offered your money back. You shouldn't ever have to send anything back to a parent company, the store that sold it to you is responsible. If you buy a defective GW model from an independent shop then that shop should deal with the problem, you shouldn't need to go to GW direct. Some shops like GW offer to swap goods of equal value or offer store credit on unwanted items that are not defective, no one is required to do this by law, but GW usually do and a lot of clothing shops and the like do as well. But when it comes to replacing defective models GW are obliged to do so, the number of people on this forum who think we pay a premium for GW for offering services that are actually required under consumer law surprises me.

It's required by law yes, but most places give you quite a hassel for it (or maybe it's just the dealers here). Other companies tend to send only the parts missing. On two out of the 4 occasions something came to me bad, they sent me a whole new set (even though the piece in question was separate from the sprue).

I'm fortunate for the fact that my local gaming store has a great selection of GW products to choose from, plus they make sure that they are always stocked up. And I have never had a hard time trying to exchange anything.

A GW manger at Brent Cross UK about 8 years ago, used to terrify the noob gamers back in the day...... not exactly you want from someone whose meant to be encouraging new hobbyists

My old manager (now at the MK store) was really awesome.The current one is okay, but a tad too rigid at times, like- "You want to use a drop of glue to fix your broken model? Official GW manager guidelines state that...blah....you want it, buy it."

Glasgow manager is a great guy when you get him talking. Otherwise he just sits on "DA MANAGA'S SITTA" (We've named it) painting minis.