I've seen this topic touched on in a few threads, whether the Tau Empire or the Imperium of Man has the better Technology. I would think that both groups have about fairly equal technology. From what I've seen in the discussions both factions have the same technology fluff-wise, although it would seem that the Tau have a better understanding of Rail and Plasma weapons. I would say that this is likely to change though. The Tau don't have the phobias/dogmas attached to altering their tech that the Imperium dose. If the Tau were allowed to continue developing they would likely be able to overtake the Imperium.

What do ya'll think?

I'd say that Tau technology is better when it comes to quality, but when it comes to quantity, or just tech on a large scale, the imperium seem to be better. The imperium seems to have alot of large scale munitions and weaponry, but Tau will refine a certain technology so that is protable and easily used.

The Imperium may have the rare piece of dark age technology which surpasses that of any other races, its just that most of its is either lost, or next to othing is known about it so as it cannont be reproguced or even properally maintained. The Tau have high tech equiptment on a large scale wheras the Imperium of the 41st Millenium has to rely on lower grade mass produced tech because they are laregly unable to produce the better stuff (which they inevitably end up losing altogether). Circa Great Crusade definately the Imperium, at least on a small scale (though is a pulse rifle more advanced than a bolter?), before that man had tech on par with the Eldar, if not even more advanced, nowadays their mostly using clunky pieces of junk, but they may have the juicier stuff stashed away here and there (that'll never be used due to Mechanicus sanctions).

The Imperium has some very high-tech expensive weaponry that arguably surpasses Tau technology (such as digital weapons ect), but these are remnants of the Dark Age of Technology. The time where humanity actually comprehended the workings of most of these weapons has long passed, with their existance becoming rarer and rarer as tech is lost (such as the Leman Russ Executioner).

The Tau understand their technology, and that leaves enormous potentional for them to expand their understanding of tech further and surpass the Imperium easily.

Digital weapons aren't Imperial, they were made by Orangetans.=P

I reject your digital orangetans.

Vy ne panimaju...

the Imperium certaintly has a vaster knowledge of Technology.


the T'au, however, have a greater degree of applied Technology.

the Imperium has Railguns too, but they are massive and only mounted on space ships. the T'au have managed to make the Tech more efficient to where it can be put on land units.

the Imperium's Plasma weaponry is at the same level as the T'au, but the T'au don't use the Tech to it's full potential and keep the weapons to a safe level. the Imperium has no such safety concerns and makes more powerful weapons.

the Imperium has an edge in Space Travel too. the T'au, being a Psykerless race, can't harness the full potential of the Warp Drive and can only make short jumps.


T'au are also limited by their lifespans. they only live about 40 standard terran years while humans like at least twice as long, up to 10 times as long with Juvnat treatments. a T'au firewarrior simply won't ever get to an experiance level a Human can because he won't ever see as many battlefields.

The Imperium has better tech, but the Tau utilize more material per warrior.

The Imperium has manpower on its side and thus they field armies with lots of men and relatively little in the way of material. If they really wanted they could equip every soldier with power armor, jump packs, storm bolters, meltaguns, and powerswords. They could all ride in Valkiers or Vendettas.

They choose not to because it costs less to field a more manpower heavy army with lasguns and flak armor that rides in chimeras (seriously cheap, like made in china cheap).

The Tau on the other hand do not have endless manpower and are surrounded. In order to survive they have to equip their soldiers to face a tough task. Orks, Nids, and Imperials on all sides they have to devote more of their economy to defense, more of their manufactured goods to war.

The Tau have a much smaller force to arm and a much much smaller distance to move their weapons to their military. The Imperium has trillions of more men with a much greater distance to move their munitions. Not to mention warp hazards, you don't want to move a bunch of advanced weapons to often when they could be lost in the warp. The Tau however don't deal with the warp and have almost zero internal threats.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Tau have a much smaller force to arm and a much much smaller distance to move their weapons to their military. The Imperium has trillions of more men with a much greater distance to move their munitions. Not to mention warp hazards, you don't want to move a bunch of advanced weapons to often when they could be lost in the warp. The Tau however don't deal with the warp and have almost zero internal threats.

think that through again.
Farsight anyone?

Asherian Command wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Tau have a much smaller force to arm and a much much smaller distance to move their weapons to their military. The Imperium has trillions of more men with a much greater distance to move their munitions. Not to mention warp hazards, you don't want to move a bunch of advanced weapons to often when they could be lost in the warp. The Tau however don't deal with the warp and have almost zero internal threats.

think that through again.
Farsight anyone?

Farsight being exposed to chaos is only a conspiracy theory, and he's not so much a threat to the Tau empire, but just don't talk to each other any more.

Imperium weaponry always struck as being brutal, using titans and giant tanks and cannons. The Tau seem to pick small, fast and very tactical.

Mr Nobody wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Tau have a much smaller force to arm and a much much smaller distance to move their weapons to their military. The Imperium has trillions of more men with a much greater distance to move their munitions. Not to mention warp hazards, you don't want to move a bunch of advanced weapons to often when they could be lost in the warp. The Tau however don't deal with the warp and have almost zero internal threats.

think that through again.
Farsight anyone?

Farsight being exposed to chaos is only a conspiracy theory, and he's not so much a threat to the Tau empire, but just don't talk to each other any more.

Imperium weaponry always struck as being brutal, using titans and giant tanks and cannons. The Tau seem to pick small, fast and very tactical.

No not that. Just saying he rebeled. He has not been touched by chaos. Has he? And they stink in political agruements.

The Ethereals with him died, he realized that they'd been controlling him, and essentially fled from their influence to establish his own self sufficient colonies in proscribed space, where they wouldn't bother to follow to him. If they sent anyone after him, he'd end up under their mind control again.

that highlights how reliant the T'au are on the Etherials maintaining their control.

if the Etherials are wiped out for what ever reason, the T'au would likely splinter apart and become a weak empire waiting for Nids to nom them.

Okay, has been stated the Imperium has Warp capability where the Tau do not. They also have teleporters(Space Marines) the Tau do not.

Tau have more Gravity vehicles(skimmers), and mass produce them.

Smaller and varied Railguns tech vs munitions and ordnance.

Pulse rifles vs lasguns.

Tau plasma is safer yet weaker, BUT is mass producible.

Firewarriors and Pathfinders all have carapace, IG get flak.

Leman Russ is a crawler, but has thicker armor, but Railguns can make a mockery of that.

Battlesuits are superior in some ways to other things the Imperium has, but they lack power weapons, making Tau on the lower footing in hand to hand.

Markerlights help get more hits and lower protection of terrain and leadership due to their psychological impact.

Space Marines have the best tech and the IG get the cheap stuff. The IG have to worry about the Tau the most.

Both have Melta type weapons.

both have flamers as that is a relatively simple weapon system, but the Imperium seems to have made more potent version like Heavy Flamers and the Flamestorm cannons.

Robotics, the Tau robots are independent where the Imperium is afraid of it!

Then there is numbers, the Tau Empire is not big enough for the Imperium to truly worry about, however, if the Tau suddenly grew numbers of soldiers and materiel to challenge the Imperium militarily, then they would likely exert more military power in the area. Meanwhile, they have the Chaos Black Crusade, Nids, 'Crons, and Dark Eldar to deal with as well as the Ork empires to deal with, the Tau are small fry in comparison.

on the issue of AI:

while the T'au are currently enjoying the benifits of AI, History must be remembered.

Humanity also had AI once. they were called the Iron Men, fully autonomous hominoids capable of thinking and perfoming independent action.

then these AI's realized they didn't need Humans anymore and so the War of the Iron Men began, triggering the end of the Dark age of Technology and the fall of the Old Night.

Humanity eventually eradicated the Iron Men, but they weren't forgotten. Humans realized that AI that is capable of human level thought processes was dangerous.


true AI was replaced with what is called the Machine Spirit. a computer made up of both Biological and mechanical componts. as a result, the AI can't function or replicate without Human intervention at some point in time and is prevented from rebelling.



the T'au will eventually suffer the same issues. they will realize that their own pathetic bodies are poorly suited to warfare in this Galaxy. they will create warrior machines who will eventually rebel against the T'au.

the T'au will be ill suited to stopping their AI rebellion because of the small empire size and realitivly low T'au to AI ratio they will have.

The T'au technology is much more advanced. Mass produced Skimmers? S5 30" standard rifles? Railguns capable of being mounted on Battlesuits? Battlesuits?

The Imperium has tons of powerful tech, don't get me wrong, but not only do they no longer fully understand it, but some of it is just unused as it's viewed as a relic.

Fire Warrior. only basic troop unit to have a standard issue weapon with a Str more then 1 point above the models.

compensating perhaps

chaos tech pwns all we have that no other race has

put really the imperium is in technological decay & the tau are rapidly advancing in the end tau tech is gonna get better & better

Cryonicleech wrote:The T'au technology is much more advanced. Mass produced Skimmers? S5 30" standard rifles? Railguns capable of being mounted on Battlesuits? Battlesuits?

The Imperium has tons of powerful tech, don't get me wrong, but not only do they no longer fully understand it, but some of it is just unused as it's viewed as a relic.

I see your battlesuit and raise with Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Warp Drives, Land Speeders and Nova Cannons. Oh, and Vortex weaponry.


As some posters in the thread has said, the Imperium is more technologically advanced. The Tau Empire, however, manages to give the average grunt more of theirs, thus creating the illusion of technological equivalency. The AdMech certainly aren't fools, and they haven't forgotten EVERYTHING, there's still plenty of nastiness to outclass the Tau.

I think it's worth mentioning that the tau are probably more open to reverse engineering IoM tech to help even the scales.

I'm sure the IoM considers such actions hersey, though maybe Ordos Xenos is more open to the idea.

The level of technology on both sides is about the same.

However, the IoM largely does not understand its technology, having acquired most of it by finding STCs rather than building it from scratch. They are also very unproductive, making a lot of items by hand which would be better produced by mass production. Presumably this is because they can't maintain the factories forever. In other words, IoM technology is more likely to decline than improve.

Tau built all their own technology, except for warp drives which you will notice is the area they are weakest in. Their technology is rapidly advancing, so in the long term it will surpass IoM technology levels.

Building big weapons is merely a matter of wanting to build big weapons once the technical issues are solved. The Tau aren't interested in busting planets, so they don't build planet busting weapons.

Naval technology is limited on both sides. The IoM can no longer produce the grav plates for their ships, and are forced to rely on recycling the plates from old ships. This means they can only build certain sizes of ships, for which suitable grav plates are available.

The Tau are limited by their difficulties with warp drive. They probably couldn't build super size ships if they wanted to.

Asherian Command wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:The Tau have a much smaller force to arm and a much much smaller distance to move their weapons to their military. The Imperium has trillions of more men with a much greater distance to move their munitions. Not to mention warp hazards, you don't want to move a bunch of advanced weapons to often when they could be lost in the warp. The Tau however don't deal with the warp and have almost zero internal threats.

think that through again.
Farsight anyone?

Farsight being exposed to chaos is only a conspiracy theory, and he's not so much a threat to the Tau empire, but just don't talk to each other any more.

Imperium weaponry always struck as being brutal, using titans and giant tanks and cannons. The Tau seem to pick small, fast and very tactical.

No not that. Just saying he rebeled. He has not been touched by chaos. Has he? And they stink in political agruements.

I wasn't saying that chaos always get a hold of them just that they don't want to lose them..... I wouldn't want to. Ther'es not really much to think through, one side has a much larger force to supply and the Tau don't have nearly as many troops..... Imperium has traitors and pirates and the Tau seem to be as obedient as lap-dogs with the Etherals around. However it is very true that the Imperium is losing understanding of its tech and the Tau is advancing constantly. I say they are equal, for now. This will end soon though.

Kilkrazy wrote:
Building big weapons is merely a matter of wanting to build big weapons once the technical issues are solved. The Tau aren't interested in busting planets, so they don't build planet busting weapons.

I think that's QFT. The IoM and the Tau simply use land war tech differently. The IoM relies heavily on sheer firepower and often neglects accuracy and range in their land weapons. On the other hand, the tau seem to be doing the exact contrary: accurate and reliable weapons, but with slightly less power.

It has been mentionned that the ioM fields titans, unlike the Tau. I think the Tau simply do not feel the need to build titans. Titans are religious items for the AdMech, effigies of their god (a bit like gargants and the orks actually ) as much as war machines. The tau would simply never build weapons as effigies of the Greater Good, right? In addition, Tau have proved time after time that their powerful air power was fully capable of taking down imp titans (mantas, titan-killer barracudas and the like).

Kilkrazy wrote:
Naval technology is limited on both sides. The IoM can no longer produce the grav plates for their ships, and are forced to rely on recycling the plates from old ships. This means they can only build certain sizes of ships, for which suitable grav plates are available.

Where do you quote this fact on grav-plates? It is the second time I'm reading it on this forum, and I've never heard about it before. Are you sure it is still cannon? I've checked all my rulebooks for battlefleet gothic a couple of times after reading this post, and I cannot find any info at all on grav-plates. If it is true, it sounds completely unrealistic. How would the IoM be able to maintain its fleet after loosing such an essential tech about space travel? In addition, the IoM has recently released completely new designs of ships for its navy (Falchion escort, Voss-Pattern light cruisers and others) which contradicts your point that the IoM can only copy older designs for its Navy.

Kilkrazy wrote:
The Tau are limited by their difficulties with warp drive. They probably couldn't build super size ships if they wanted to.

Nonono! Again, the tau have recently started building "second generation" ships for their navy. And their brand new battleships (Custodian-Class battleships) equal the size of the biggest imperial vessels, though they still cannot match the speed and firepower something as basic as an imperial cruiser.

Imagine it like this:
In the Tau Empire, everyone has a car.
In the Imperium, 99% of the population has a horse and carriage, and 1% have hovercraft.

I think the Tau are more likely going to employ public transport systems of various types.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grav Plates.

I don't know where it comes from. However the Imperium has lost many essential technologies, so it doesn't seem unrealistic to lose one more.

Kilkrazy wrote:I think the Tau are more likely going to employ public transport systems of various types.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grav Plates.

I don't know where it comes from. However the Imperium has lost many essential technologies, so it doesn't seem unrealistic to lose one more.

It comes from 1st edition.

On the thread.

The Tau are roughly par on the Imperium in the terms of technology.By the way Tau don't have phase technology(IoM uses it to bypass defenses).

Isn't phase technology the Necron trick?

Imperium tech is vastly more advanced than Tau.

What we usually see in their armies is not their best technology. Since they outnumber Tau billions to 1(in soldiers alone), they can't outfit every man with the very best gear, just like in real life.

The Imperium has personal teleportation devices, vortex weaponry, medical procedures to make folks immortal, etc. This doesn't even count their psychic technologies Tau can never have like warp engines, force weapons, psychic hoods, mnemo quills, etc.

But when you have billions of soldiers for every one your enemy has, you give your men light armor and weapons with no moving parts and infinite ammo.

The Tau empire would be exhausted in years if it fought even one war on the scale the Imperium operates. They just don't have the resources for something like that.

We (IG) got bigger robots: we win.

That said, previous posts led me to consider dreadnought stolen/improved/re-used by the taus... Sound cool

Kilkrazy wrote:Isn't phase technology the Necron trick?

Imperium and Necrons have it.Read Planetstrike,cursed IA 5-7 and Rouge Trader(not the RPG).

Tau are better in some areas, Imperium in others.
But in case of technology the Imperium is more advanced that Tau - for now at least.
When it comes to infantry, Tau has better equipped infantry. And their standard tactics are fast strikes on enemy flanks.
But, on the other hand Imperial Guard has thousands of years of combat experience and strategy, and with their numbers - they can make a stable front and thus preventing the Tau to attack them from side. And I am pretty sure that every more diciplined regiment (from Cadia, Vostroya, Krieg, Catachan...) can be more than match for any Tau strike force.
As for vehicles, Tau are on the losing side. They may have slightly stronger guns. But no tank in the galaxy is match for the Leman Russ battle tank. To mention Baneblade is to set overkill, and on 1 Tau tank comes countless Imperial...
In space battle, Tau fleet can't match only the biggest Imperial ships - like Emperor class and Battle Barges. But they have few tricks in space ( like that one time they disabled entire Necron fleet and destroyed it).
In everything else Imperium is technologicly very advanced. Space Marines are the top of Imperium technological advancement, and we have Titans, teleportation, warp travel...

Imperium has a way better tech than Tau.

If the Imperium turn their full attention to the Tau it's curtains. The fleet and WMDs alone would be enough to leave the Tau a smoldering ruin.

The Tau better pray for another warp storm; maybe they can catch up in tech to compensate. Or they can pray to the star gods to lengthen their lifespans and then become necrons...

IvanTih wrote:
It comes from 1st edition.

On the thread.

The Tau are roughly par on the Imperium in the terms of technology.By the way Tau don't have phase technology(IoM uses it to bypass defenses).

1st edition? You mean W40K first ed??? Damn, I was not even born at the time!

Spam the forum.
KK posts a hot japanese girl telling us to not spam the forum.

Herein lies the problem...


Those who fight for the Greater Good are surely greater.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I see your battlesuit and raise with Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Warp Drives, Land Speeders and Nova Cannons. Oh, and Vortex weaponry.

I see your TDA and raise you a Broadside battlesuit. Same save, higher strength and is capable of a 4+ invulnerable and comes standard with t/l railguns.
You got 'em with the warp drive.
Land Speeder, say hello to the piranha.
Nova Cannon...dunno what that is.
Vortex weapons, the same things that can randomly go back and kill the guy that shot it? Yeah, we'll pass.

Yeah, the assassin phase swords were always called C'tan Phase swords and are lost iof they fight a C;'tan as the blade melds with the C'tan,,,,Damn you Deceiver!!(shakes fist at Deceiver model on desk)

That and the Tau cannot even conceive of just how many humans there are in the galaxy! On hiveworld is as many people as their entire Empire!

Tech wise, what the Tau are getting better at the IoM has long ago lost!

I knew this thread was going to be hijacked by Imperium fanboys and tards.

The Imperium is decrepit and corrupt. They are bigger enemies than the Tau who are relatively one of FEW the "good guys" in 40k (along with Eldar).

They can be reasoned with, have diplomatic relations with. Why the HELL WOULD THE IMPERIUM dedicate huge amounts of resources to crush the Tau when the Tyranids are overrunning half the galaxy?

I bet these tards would even argue the Imperium has better technology than the Eldar - THEY DON'T. The Tau is scientific, open-minded, and advancing.

Just because the Imperium is bigger and "badder" but that wasn't the question.

[Mod Edit - Attempting to get around the swear filter will result in problems.]

Doriangray, telling to other users of this forum that they are retards and a@@holes will not do much good to the credibility of your point. It won't help the conversation either.

agnosto wrote:
Nova Cannon...dunno what that is.

A nova cannon is one of the biggest weapons in the arsenals of the IoM. It is a massive artillery piece mounted on the prow of some imperial ships. Its recoil and the power needed to operate it are so important that it can only be mounted on cruiser-or-above ships.
Basically it works like a gauss cannon. A massive projectile is launched into space via magnetic or gravitic accelerators at a velocity close to light speed. It is remotely detonated by its ship of origin once it is close enough to its target. Its explosive power is said to be even greater than a dozen plasma bombs packed together. The resulting detonation is usually big enough to engulf the entire ennemy vessel in an orb of plasma fire.

In brief, it is some really badass stuff.

agnosto wrote:
Vortex weapons, the same things that can randomly go back and kill the guy that shot it? Yeah, we'll pass.

No, like the Vortex Staves carried by Fabricator Generals that cause the damage of a Vortex device (that is, complete annihilation) in only the things they hit with it.

Laodamia wrote:Doriangray, telling to other users of this forum that they are retards and a@@holes will not do much good to the credibility of your point. It won't help the conversation either.

agnosto wrote:
Nova Cannon...dunno what that is.

A nova cannon is one of the biggest weapons in the arsenals of the IoM. It is a massiva artillery piece mounted on the prow of some imperial ships. Its recoil and the power needed to operate it are so important that it can only be mounted on cruiser-or-above ships.
Basically it works like a gauss cannon. A massive projectile is launched into space via magnetic or gravitic accelerators at a velocity close to light speed. It is remotely detonated by its ship of origin once it is close enough to its target. Its explosive power is said to be even greater than a dozen plasma bombs packed together. The resulting detonation is usually big enough to engulf the entire ennemy vessel in an orb of plasma fire.

In brief, it is some really badass stuff.

Nova Cannons are rather a system of weapons(standard is the implosion warhead which produces black hole upon implosion as per Cadian Blood),then we have energy Nova Cannon from Dark Apostole and plasma Nova Cannon on an Ordinatus.

Look no further than the Novel: Courage and Honor to find canon examples of Tau as**olery and Imperial Guard WTF PWNING them with Baneblades. The novel is basically a dissection of how the Tau can't deal with a straight stand up fight with heavy IOM armor and attritional mass warfare.

A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

LOL! all of my armies are at Apoc level points!
Tau/IG/SM/Orks. No less then 7k and all capping about 15k at the highest.

My Tau Broadsides have killed a Baneblade in i turn as my best killtime.

Just hurts when My Ig are on the receiving end of Tau Tech!

shasolenzabi wrote:LOL! all of my armies are at Apoc level points!
Tau/IG/SM/Orks. No less then 7k and all capping about 15k at the highest.

My Tau Broadsides have killed a Baneblade in i turn as my best killtime.

Just hurts when My Ig are on the receiving end of Tau Tech!

You're trolling and game mechanics don't represent the fluff accurately.

DorianGray wrote:I knew this thread was going to be hijacked by Imperium fanboys and tards.

The Imperium is decrepit and corrupt. They are bigger enemies than the Tau who are relatively one of FEW the "good guys" in 40k (along with Eldar).

They can be reasoned with, have diplomatic relations with. Why the HELL WOULD THE IMPERIUM dedicate huge amounts of resources to crush the Tau when the Tyranids are overrunning half the galaxy?

I bet these tards would even argue the Imperium has better technology than the Eldar - THEY DON'T. The Tau is scientific, open-minded, and advancing.

Just because the Imperium is bigger and "badder" but that wasn't the question.

A@@holes.

Imperium are also "good guys", just look at their struggle with Chaos, Necrons and Tyranids.
And if you didn't notice, the Imperium is in PEACE with the Tau since the end of Damocles Crusade.
Eldar have one of the best technologies in the galaxy, only Necrons have better. And Tau are not far behind.
Imperium is indeed BIGGER, and have some technologies that are better than the Tau.

And speaking about Eldar - they are race of retards and idiots. They are on the edge of destruction, yet instead of finding some planet and repopularize race - they are losing way to many warriors in battles they are barely winning. And instead of working with the Imperials, who represents their best hope in defeating the Necrons (irony), they seek to destroy them all - even if that is impossible to them. The greatest fail for Eldar, to me, was in DoW II:
Farseer: Wed will destroy this three Human worlds and stop Hive Fleet from devouring the Eldar. We shall use Orks to slow them down and we will blow up Meridian to deny them biomass to reproduce.
Warlock: But Farseer, Humans have large concentration of troops on this worlds. And Space Marines are also seen there, maybe we can provide them assistance in battle against Tyranids? Or maybe even warn them to better prepare against incoming Tyranids.
Farseer: No, we will go according to plan. This Humans are already dead, they are to primitive to stand against them.

Result: Orks dead, Tyranids dead, Eldar dead - Space Marines kick ass.

IvanTih wrote:
Look no further than the Novel: Courage and Honor to find canon examples of Tau as**olery and Imperial Guard WTF PWNING them with Baneblades. The novel is basically a dissection of how the Tau can't deal with a straight stand up fight with heavy IOM armor and attritional mass warfare.

A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

Yeah, one would never expect a book written from the perspective of the imperium to show the Tau as awesome,,,,,

Mikalichou wrote:We (IG) got bigger robots: we win.

That said, previous posts led me to consider dreadnought stolen/improved/re-used by the taus... Sound cool

I think it's been said already that Titans don't fit the Tau. Titans can have a lot of firepower, but they are not very fast from what I understand. The Tau would rather fit the same scale of weaponry on something that moves faster. As a matter of fact I think that is what they did, aren't there some Air Cast "fighter-planes" loaded with Rail Guns?

I do agree though that if the IoM and the Tau started an all out war, Tau would lose. The Tau know this, thats why they use the Water Caste to spread pro Tau propaganda carefully through rogue traders etc.

Also I thought the Tau's stealth tech was greater than the Imperium, correct me if I'm wrong.

Also I thought the Tau's stealth tech was greater than the Imperium, correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, we have camo cloaks, and I *think* they can turn invisible or something?

the T'au actually started a Titan equivilent project upon encountering Titans for the first time, but scrapped it after deciding that they wouldn't be able to stand toe to toe with the IoM's titans and that Railguns were more effective.


the basic design was an oversized battlesuit the size of a warhound, complete with Jump Jets.

agnosto wrote:

IvanTih wrote:
Look no further than the Novel: Courage and Honor to find canon examples of Tau as**olery and Imperial Guard WTF PWNING them with Baneblades. The novel is basically a dissection of how the Tau can't deal with a straight stand up fight with heavy IOM armor and attritional mass warfare.

A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

Yeah, one would never expect a book written from the perspective of the imperium to show the Tau as awesome,,,,,

Facts are facts,don't use that Imperial Propaganda thing to handwave facts.

Facts are facts,don't use that Imperial Propaganda thing to handwave facts.

I think that if you read a Tau novel, you will find that can probably destroy a baneblade with only a railgun... He was not talking about propaganda, but about "I win because I'm the hero of the book"

If you go that way, in Fire Warrior, one basic Tau kills an impressive number of Chaos Marines, all alone, and we know that one space marine equals 1,000 IG soldiers ^^

IvanTih wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IvanTih wrote:
Look no further than the Novel: Courage and Honor to find canon examples of Tau as**olery and Imperial Guard WTF PWNING them with Baneblades. The novel is basically a dissection of how the Tau can't deal with a straight stand up fight with heavy IOM armor and attritional mass warfare.

A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

Yeah, one would never expect a book written from the perspective of the imperium to show the Tau as awesome,,,,,

Facts are facts,don't use that Imperial Propaganda thing to handwave facts.

"Star of Damocles" was from the imperium perspective, and the Tau wipe the floor with them in space combat. Imperium bring reinforcements, finally conquer the planet after exhausting their resources and then realize every single planet is just as powerful.

Overall, the Imperium has greater heights, but the Tau technology base is spread over more of it's entirety rather than isolated pockets.

But the Imperium is so big, could there be sections of it with overall better technology larger than the entire Tau Empire?

Mikalichou wrote:

If you go that way, in Fire Warrior, one basic Tau kills an impressive number of Chaos Marines, all alone, and we know that one space marine equals 1,000 IG soldiers ^^

That game is unrealistic, even for 40k standards. To compare, that means that I with very limited knowledge of combat and weapons can take down impressive number of US Special Forces (green berets). And one Space Marine is equal to 300 Imperial Guardsman.
Thank you very much ^^

agnosto wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I see your battlesuit and raise with Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Warp Drives, Land Speeders and Nova Cannons. Oh, and Vortex weaponry.

I see your TDA and raise you a Broadside battlesuit.

REALLY? You do realize that TDA is, bar none, THE most powerful form of personal armour in the Galaxy that you don't have to be permanently wired to, yes? This is fluff, not table-top, and even if it were table-top a 3++ is better than a 4++.

Nova Cannons are the railguns that Armageddon Class Battleships are built around. They fire plasma blobs at near the speed of light at enemy ships and gives them a bad hair day.

Brother Coa wrote:
And speaking about Eldar - they are race of retards and idiots. They are on the edge of destruction, yet instead of finding some planet and repopularize race - they are losing way to many warriors in battles they are barely winning. And instead of working with the Imperials, who represents their best hope in defeating the Necrons (irony), they seek to destroy them all - even if that is impossible to them. The greatest fail for Eldar, to me, was in DoW II:
Farseer: Wed will destroy this three Human worlds and stop Hive Fleet from devouring the Eldar. We shall use Orks to slow them down and we will blow up Meridian to deny them biomass to reproduce.
Warlock: But Farseer, Humans have large concentration of troops on this worlds. And Space Marines are also seen there, maybe we can provide them assistance in battle against Tyranids? Or maybe even warn them to better prepare against incoming Tyranids.
Farseer: No, we will go according to plan. This Humans are already dead, they are to primitive to stand against them.

Result: Orks dead, Tyranids dead, Eldar dead - Space Marines kick ass.

Oh god, don't bring DoW into this... Remember when the Blood Ravens eliminated the IMPERIAL GUARD in 2 separate campaigns (dark crusade and soul storm) ? oh yea, I do! The entire plot of DoW is built around fudging things to give everybody an excuse to fight each other- because its a real time strategy game- with space marines as the main characters in the campaigns.

The reason why the Eldar fought against the Blood Ravens in the first campaign, is because Gabriel Angelos (bless his heart, I do love him) actually released the demon that he was trying to destroy, despite explicit warnings from the Farseer about what would happen- way to go Gabe. Had the Eldar eliminated the Blood Ravens, and then there was a chance they'd beat the chaos forces and stop the release, if Blood Ravens won... 100% chance of Demon being released... as we saw happen.

I haven't played the DoW II campaign, but I fully recognize its obviously going to bend how things would go to give the space marines more missions against varied opponents.


The Eldar would probably be more willing to ally with the Imperium if both races weren't insanely elitist and xenophobic. also the Eldar do help the Imperium... when its in the Eldar's best interest Ulthwe did intervene on the side of the Imperium in the black crusade, did it not?

anyway back on topic, I have to agree that Imperium, for the time being has vastly superior tech on the whole, but the T'au, due to thier lower numbers, arm their individual soldiers better, giving them a tech advantage in localized battles against the IG, and at a slight tech disadvantage to Space Marines. This makes it seem like T'au is on the whole more technologically advanced than it is.

But this is now! T'au has potential and develpment, and knowledge of how their tech works. If nothing terrible happens, will surpass the modern Imperium in terms of tech- but they will never be able to match Eldar tech without psychers, and the C'Tan allow Necron tech to bend the rules of physics, so the T'au will never be able to reach the levels of those two.

akaean wrote:

The Eldar would probably be more willing to ally with the Imperium if both races weren't insanely elitist and xenophobic. also the Eldar do help the Imperium... when its in the Eldar's best interest Ulthwe did intervene on the side of the Imperium in the black crusade, did it not?

Yes they did, preventing Abaddon from getting hold of a Blackstone Fortress, although it did cost them Eldrad. Serves him right for sending Ghazzy to Armageddon!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

agnosto wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I see your battlesuit and raise with Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Warp Drives, Land Speeders and Nova Cannons. Oh, and Vortex weaponry.

I see your TDA and raise you a Broadside battlesuit.

REALLY? You do realize that TDA is, bar none, THE most powerful form of personal armour in the Galaxy that you don't have to be permanently wired to, yes? This is fluff, not table-top, and even if it were table-top a 3++ is better than a 4++.

Nova Cannons are the railguns that Armageddon Class Battleships are built around. They fire plasma blobs at near the speed of light at enemy ships and gives them a bad hair day.

+1

Totally agree for the TDA. it is the single most badass piece of equipment created since the birth of the star gods.

By the way, the Armageddon class batllecruiser (not battleship) is equipped with prow-mounted torpedo tubes, not a nova cannon. But I'm just being neat.
I think you were referring to the Apocalypse class Battleship, which does field a nova cannon and looks a lot like the armageddon cruiser.

But the Apocalypse is not the only ship using a nova cannon. There is also the Mars-class battlecruiser, the Dominator-class cruiser and other specially modified ships.

agnosto wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I see your battlesuit and raise with Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Warp Drives, Land Speeders and Nova Cannons. Oh, and Vortex weaponry.

I see your TDA and raise you a Broadside battlesuit. Same save, higher strength and is capable of a 4+ invulnerable and comes standard with t/l railguns.
You got 'em with the warp drive.
Land Speeder, say hello to the piranha.
Nova Cannon...dunno what that is.
Vortex weapons, the same things that can randomly go back and kill the guy that shot it? Yeah, we'll pass.

Its hard to compare as the Imperium is so vast that their technology is highly variable from world to world.
In absolute terms the Imperium has the TAU beat at every level. In terms of what the Imperium are fielding against a particular target, its a different story.
Are we comparing the Tau land forces against IG head hunters with the latest in pointy sticks, Massed armor IG with superheavies and superior plasma/melta weaponry backed by Deathstrike missiles hitting you with vortex holes from a continent away, space dropping storm troopers with massed vultures and valkyries; advanced tech skitarrii backed by superheavy ordinance launchers and titan legions; or Marines?


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IvanTih wrote:

shasolenzabi wrote:LOL! all of my armies are at Apoc level points!
Tau/IG/SM/Orks. No less then 7k and all capping about 15k at the highest.

My Tau Broadsides have killed a Baneblade in i turn as my best killtime.

Just hurts when My Ig are on the receiving end of Tau Tech!

You're trolling and game mechanics don't represent the fluff accurately.

They do moreso in Epic...of course Tau broadsides would get smeared across the road by a baneblade in Epic...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Modquisition on. This is a public warning to all on this thread. Further statements of "tard" "slow" or any derivation will lead to the IMMEDIATE suspension of whichever poster makes that post. We highly frown on that word usage here, and you don't want to test this.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
REALLY? You do realize that TDA is, bar none, THE most powerful form of personal armour in the Galaxy that you don't have to be permanently wired to, yes? This is fluff, not table-top, and even if it were table-top a 3++ is better than a 4++.

Broadsides are similar but more expensive (points-wise); besides they just look cooler; who doesn't want giant railguns on your shoulders? Heck of a lot better than storm bolters.

Terminator Cycline missile launcher rules, Tau rail gun drools.

There's been something that has been mentioned only a couple of times so far that I'd like to reiterate.

"Better" is a vague term, as lots of things can be better in different ways. One of the things that's missing is that imperial equipment has a marked advantage in production and maintenance.

It's like the classic US v. USSR model. Yes, the Tau weapons may be lighter, more powerful, and more accurate, but imperial weapons are manufactured with like 1/10th the number of parts, which means they are WAY more mass-produceable and are so rugged and easy to maintain that they don't really even need to train their soldiers how to maintain their weapons.

One of the ways one can see better is through the lens of which is more popular. Compare the thousands of M16's sold to the millions of ak-47's sold and then up that same idea to millions of pulse rifles to hundreds of trillions of lasguns, and you get my point.

The same is true for most technology of the imperium. Immobilize a skimmer, and it's wrecked in pieces. Immobilize a rhino and IT FIXES ITSELF.

Yes, that's true.

Of course the IoM doesn't mass produce weapons in the way we would understand the term. They are either hand built, or manufactured by STCs to which the IoM has lost most of the secrets.

Plus the innate conservatism of the whole society prevents any real advances in technology.

That is why it took the IoM 3,000 years to develop the Razorback from the Rhino, while it took the Tau 6,000 years to develop from the early stone age to space travel.

It is the fast rate of advance of Tau technology which is the challenge for the IoM. Given a couple of hundred more years, who knows what the clever little buggers will come up with?

Fortunately, the IoM is protected by impenetrable plot armour, as there are never any advances in the timeline.

Ailaros wrote:Immobilize a skimmer, and it's wrecked in pieces. Immobilize a rhino and IT FIXES ITSELF.

Kilkrazy wrote: Fortunately, the IoM is protected by impenetrable plot armour, as there are never any advances in the timeline.

And sometimes, I whish there was an "approve this post" button.

akaean wrote:

Oh god, don't bring DoW into this... Remember when the Blood Ravens eliminated the IMPERIAL GUARD in 2 separate campaigns (dark crusade and soul storm) ? oh yea, I do! The entire plot of DoW is built around fudging things to give everybody an excuse to fight each other- because its a real time strategy game- with space marines as the main characters in the campaigns.

The reason why the Eldar fought against the Blood Ravens in the first campaign, is because Gabriel Angelos (bless his heart, I do love him) actually released the demon that he was trying to destroy, despite explicit warnings from the Farseer about what would happen- way to go Gabe. Had the Eldar eliminated the Blood Ravens, and then there was a chance they'd beat the chaos forces and stop the release, if Blood Ravens won... 100% chance of Demon being released... as we saw happen.

I haven't played the DoW II campaign, but I fully recognize its obviously going to bend how things would go to give the space marines more missions against varied opponents.

The Eldar would probably be more willing to ally with the Imperium if both races weren't insanely elitist and xenophobic. also the Eldar do help the Imperium... when its in the Eldar's best interest Ulthwe did intervene on the side of the Imperium in the black crusade, did it not?

Why not? DoW game play is not canonical - but the story is. And for reference Space Marines lost in Soulstorm (the Imperial Guard butcher them), and SM are not always main characters in the game.
And play DoW II, you will like it

I call the Tau as superior because they have a more stable knowledge base.

you have to count only sustainable technology, when their Imperium brings its Wunderwaffe to battle it dare not lose any. Tau have no such problems.

However the most telling advantage is that with the exception of psychic based technologies the Tau will simply reverse engineer any Imperial technology they encounter and can then mimic it or build a match for it.

[Open sequence of a wartorn landscape replete with smoking craters and the hulks of demolished vehicles, two Tau Firewarriors stand on a blasted hillside surveying the aftermath of a bloody skirmish between Tau and Imperium troops]

Firewarrior 1: Wow, these humans sure put up a fight.

Firewarrior 2: [looking at the body of a fallen space marine warrior] But this one wasn't killed with any of our technology.

Firewarrior 1: [Squating next to the space marine and examining a large hole burned through the soldier's armor and body] You're right, it looks like the weapon he was holding self-destructed.

[An eath caste scientist walks up and looks down on the space marine as well]

Scientist: [Shaking his head] Silly humans, when will they learn to stop killing themselves with their own weapons?

[The scientist reaches down and picks up the remains of a plasma pistol from the ground next to the dead space marine and begins shaking his head]

Firewarrior 1: What is it?

Scientist: There's even a dial to turn the intensity down and they never thought to use it.

[Camera pans back and up to the sounds of the firewarriors and scientist laughing]

Mr Nobody wrote:*snip*
"Star of Damocles" was from the imperium perspective, and the Tau wipe the floor with them in space combat. Imperium bring reinforcements, finally conquer the planet after exhausting their resources and then realize every single planet is just as powerful.

Andy Hoare novels also contradict every source on range of space combat(he also ignores other pieces of fluff which out Imperial ships above Tau).

Thing is when Tau get too cocky they'll get exterminated.Even Tau say that.

agnosto wrote:Scientist: There's even a dial to turn the intensity down and they never thought to use it.

Lol.

I like the idea that there's a dial on the side of it. Something like...



And the tech-priest has permanently broken the dial so it can't be set lower than 7.

To be fair, though, imperial plasma guns can take down hammerheads, while tau plasma weapons never could.

Actually they could, since the armour on a Hammerhead is 13/12/10.

However Tau weapons have safety interlocks to prevent accidental discharge towards an identified friendly unit.

Tau foiled once again!

In any case, plasma guns from the imperium are definitely killier against vehicles, especially when your opponent isn't so generous as to show you rear armor.

LOL, I love that graphic.

Guys, you made my day

Klawz wrote:Imagine it like this:
In the Tau Empire, everyone has a car.
In the Imperium, 99% of the population has a horse and carriage, and 1% have hovercraft.

This. Also that hovercraft has laserguns!

agnosto wrote:[Open sequence of a wartorn landscape replete with smoking craters and the hulks of demolished vehicles, two Tau Firewarriors stand on a blasted hillside surveying the aftermath of a bloody skirmish between Tau and Imperium troops]

Firewarrior 1: Wow, these humans sure put up a fight.

Firewarrior 2: [looking at the body of a fallen space marine warrior] But this one wasn't killed with any of our technology.

Firewarrior 1: [Squating next to the space marine and examining a large hole burned through the soldier's armor and body] You're right, it looks like the weapon he was holding self-destructed.

[An eath caste scientist walks up and looks down on the space marine as well]

Scientist: [Shaking his head] Silly humans, when will they learn to stop killing themselves with their own weapons?

[The scientist reaches down and picks up the remains of a plasma pistol from the ground next to the dead space marine and begins shaking his head]

Firewarrior 1: What is it?

Scientist: There's even a dial to turn the intensity down and they never thought to use it.

[Camera pans back and up to the sounds of the firewarriors and scientist laughing]

Continuation:

[As they laughing, they hear radio noise from behind them. They slowly turn around]

Firewarrior 1: What is that?

Firewarrior 2: Looks like a single Gue'la trooper on the hill.

Scientist: Why do you have a laser taged to your armor?

[Firewarriors aim at the trooper, and just moment before they take their shot they hear a very loud noise. In the next moment the mist surrounding the trooper is lifted and Imperial Titan, Emperor class, is standing behind him. The Titan charged it's plasma cannons and aiming at Firewarror with laser tag on his armor]

Firewarror 1: [shaking in fear] Ethereal...

Firewarrior 2: [shaking in fear] ...preserve...

Scientist: [enrolled in the pants] ...us.

[Camera pans back and up to the screaming of the firewarriors and scientist as they are in the middle of big blue plasma discharge. In Titan, the Princeps is smiling... ]

Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

Mikalichou wrote:Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

Or what happens to titans after a broadside unit finishes with them? catastrophic failure and huge asplosion?

agnosto wrote:Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

For the reference Emperor class Titans have Void shields, so good luck in penetrating that. + it has guns on all sides including AA plasma cannons (as seen in DoW Winter Assault).


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Mikalichou wrote:Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

And Titans are build in such perfection that their weapon cannot overheat and explode. And SM plasma gun is also safe. It's the Guardsman plasmas that are violate, for all other Imperial forces plasma guns and pistols are made to be safer to use.

A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

Brother Coa wrote:

agnosto wrote:Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

For the reference Emperor class Titans have Void shields, so good luck in penetrating that. + it has guns on all sides including AA plasma cannons (as seen in DoW Winter Assault).


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Mikalichou wrote:Or the titan shoots its plasma and explodes

And Titans are build in such perfection that their weapon cannot overheat and explode. And SM plasma gun is also safe. It's the Guardsman plasmas that are violate, for all other Imperial forces plasma guns and pistols are made to be safer to use.

+1

A single manta would NEVER be able to take down an emperor class titan. It could do the trick against a warhound or a reaver though.

Brother Coa wrote:

agnosto wrote:Then the manta flies down and aces the titan. heavy railguns ftw. lol

For the reference Emperor class Titans have Void shields, so good luck in penetrating that. + it has guns on all sides including AA plasma cannons (as seen in DoW Winter Assault).

You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

An Warhound, smallest and weakest of all the Titans. We are talking about Imperator Titan with Void Shields Heavy Plasma Batteries. The one that destroyed Tyranid Bio-Titan with ine shot.


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agnosto wrote:
You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

Even million Railguns won't help against even one of him. Imperials can hold entire SOLAR SYSTEM with one Imperator.

And they do not fear spaceships? IoM has one bomb that can destroy entire planet and 1 bomb that can eradicate all life on planet.

And Tau are not afraid of Space Marines? They should be after the Black Templar's butcher them at Nimbosa.

Brother Coa wrote: And SM plasma gun is also safe. It's the Guardsman plasmas that are violate, for all other Imperial forces plasma guns and pistols are made to be safer to use.

Oh?

*Opens his SM codex, look p99*

Plasma Cannon - Gets Hot!

Plasma Gun - Gets Hot!

Plasma Pistol - Gets Hot!

Seems exactly like the IG plasma stuff... Or do you mean SM armies are not using SM plasma guns, but are borrowing ours?

These threads are always fun.

Yes, we know the imperium has the best of everything, including the previously mentioned plot armor. I know, GW should just axe all the other armies and just have the imperium forces fight each other.....since there's no way that any other race could ever hope to prevail against their pristine gloriousness.

Mikalichou wrote:
Seems exactly like the IG plasma stuff... Or do you mean SM armies are not using SM plasma guns, but are borrowing ours?

They are not the same type. Guard use MK 35 'Magnacore' - Cadian Issue, while SM use MK XII "Ragefire" witch is more stable and does not explode like Cadian issue.
One more thing that Tau do not have in their arsenal: Exterminatus bomb.

Marine plasma guns being better is represented by the fact that Gets Hot allows armor saves.

the armor save represents the guns chance of catastrophic failure if the weapon malfunctions.


a Marine, on table, has a 66% chance of not having his gun blow up and hurt him.

a guardsmen only has a 33% chance of the same.


all plasma guns have the same chance of failure, but marines, arguably, have better training with their weapons and are better skilled to stop an overload.


a fail save doesn't mean the bearer is dead, just incapacitated in someway. a multi-wound character can survive his PP malfunctioning and keep fighting. a single wound marine might have had his armor systems fried or his arm plates fused by the heat and he has to retire to the rear to get treatment as he no longer can fight.

guardsmen might simply be suffering some 2nd degree burns.


the victim of a Gets Hot roll isn't always dead. more likely he is getting some serious medical treatment, but not dead. the Gets Hot rule simply represents many different, but related, circumstances that remove the Gets Hopt weapon and it's bearer from the battlefield for the duration of the Battle.

Or maybe SM just have better armors..?

Brother Coa wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

An Warhound, smallest and weakest of all the Titans. We are talking about Imperator Titan with Void Shields Heavy Plasma Batteries. The one that destroyed Tyranid Bio-Titan with ine shot.


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agnosto wrote:
You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

Even million Railguns won't help against even one of him. Imperials can hold entire SOLAR SYSTEM with one Imperator.

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.

I don't understand th question. Humanity has been losing tech for approx. 10,000 years. They can't make anything new and most of their tech that is around is worshiped as supposed to maintained AND several thousand years old AND irreplaceable.

If we are talking 30-35-ish K imperium wins/is moving towards a tie. but as of now, in short, no.

in long : NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Kilkrazy wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
Even million Railguns won't help against even one of him. Imperials can hold entire SOLAR SYSTEM with one Imperator.

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.

...Touché.

Johnnyboy955 wrote:I don't understand th question. Humanity has been losing tech for approx. 10,000 years. They can't make anything new and most of their tech that is around is worshiped as supposed to maintained AND several thousand years old AND irreplaceable.

If we are talking 30-35-ish K imperium wins/is moving towards a tie. but as of now, in short, no.

in long : NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I am afraid you are wrong.


The Imperium has lost very little technology since the Horus Heresy.

Humanity, on the other hand, has lost quite abit since the Dark Age.



the Imperium actually has greater scientific knowledge then when the Emperor began the Great Crusade.

Power armor continues to improve. new marks come out every so often and each provides better protection and equipment then the previous.

many, MANY, STCs were rediscovered during the Great Crusade and many continue to be rediscovered even to the present.


most of the Lost tech was lost during the Old Night. when humanity was sundered from itself for several thousand years. most of this Tech is either still lost on Planets that haven't been rediscovered yet. some of it is lost for good.


Mars contains much lost tech too. buried in the catacombs and tunnels. thats where Land Raiders and Land Speeders were rediscovered(and named for the Arch Magos who found them)

the Ad Mech just has to sort through the piles of Information to patch things up. schematics are often scrambled and unusable, they have to use their previous knowledge to reinvent some of the technology.


the Ad Mech also has finite resources to do this with. they have to sort through an effectivly infinite amount of Information, much of it encrypted, to rebuild stuff. they are literally on information overload.


the Imperiums common tech level hasn't improved much because they have found designs that work and are extreamly effective at the job asked to do. the basic lasgun, and all the thousands of variants there are on it, is the weapon that makes the most sense for the Imperium to use. it's dirt cheap to make, easy to use and maintain, ammo is in a practically limitless supply(charge it in a fire FTW!!!) and the weapon is effective against pretty much any foe whether it be an Ork boy, Eldar guardian, or Termagant.

Lemun Russ battle tanks. they run on practically any combustable fluid, are heavily armored, cheap and easy to produce, and have powerful weapons for different tasks.


ask yourself this question. Why is the AK-47 still in use today, practically unchanged from the original design, while the M-16 is constantly being revamped, upgraded, and altered. the M-16 will likely be replaced soon, with a weapon based on the AK-47. because the AK-47 is a simple design that works in practically any conditions with almost no drop in usability. M-14s and M-16s would jam quite often in Vietnam, so much so that American soldiers would pick up AK-47s because their guns weren't operating due to the conditions.

most of the Imperiums tech works like the AK-47. it always works, never jams, and is easy to produce.

i will bet that the AK-47 will be used for the next century, if not several centuries, because it's a winning design. the Imperium has found winning designs of Technology. why fix that which isn't broken?

I've always said that the greatest weapon in 40k isn't the plasma destructor, or the nova cannon or even the bolter, but the lasgun.

The imperium can give every one of their trillions of guardsmen a lasgun which must eman they're incredibly cheap to produce and ammo is probably cheaper. In emergencies they can be recharged making the ammo supply almost limitless. Combined with a massive logistical support structure a guard regiment takes 3 years of heavy fighting to eat up the same supplies that a armoured regiment uses in about a month.

These men with lasguns regularly hold off and defeat super humans, horrible aliens and yes, even the tau. Compared to that you can ahve the greatest tech in the world and it still doesn't matter. The IoM can mobilize, train and equip more men for cheaper than anyone else.

The imeprium also posses the ability to create space marines, this is a massive feat of medical science to create some of the finest warriors ever. (Fluff wise anyway) I don't think anyone has managed to achieve something like that.

Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

Grey Templar wrote:
Mars contains much lost tech too. buried in the catacombs and tunnels. thats where Land Raiders and Land Speeders were rediscovered(and named for the Arch Magos who found them)

Ah, good ol' Arch Magos Land, and his faithful colleagues Raider and Speeder. They could make an Imperator titan from a pack of chewing gum and a roll of duct tape. Sadly, such things were long since lost by their day, so they had to settle for thousands of tons of adamantium, which is tragically a great deal more expensive.

the Imperiums common tech level hasn't improved much because they have found designs that work and are extreamly effective at the job asked to do. the basic lasgun, and all the thousands of variants there are on it, is the weapon that makes the most sense for the Imperium to use. it's dirt cheap to make, easy to use and maintain, ammo is in a practically limitless supply(charge it in a fire FTW!!!) and the weapon is effective against pretty much any foe whether it be an Ork boy, Eldar guardian, or Termagant.

Lemun Russ battle tanks. they run on practically any combustable fluid, are heavily armored, cheap and easy to produce, and have powerful weapons for different tasks.


ask yourself this question. Why is the AK-47 still in use today, practically unchanged from the original design, while the M-16 is constantly being revamped, upgraded, and altered. the M-16 will likely be replaced soon, with a weapon based on the AK-47. because the AK-47 is a simple design that works in practically any conditions with almost no drop in usability. M-14s and M-16s would jam quite often in Vietnam, so much so that American soldiers would pick up AK-47s because their guns weren't operating due to the conditions.

most of the Imperiums tech works like the AK-47. it always works, never jams, and is easy to produce.

i will bet that the AK-47 will be used for the next century, if not several centuries, because it's a winning design. the Imperium has found winning designs of Technology. why fix that which isn't broken?

Yep. Though note, modern variants of the M-16 are far more reliable than the originals, if still absurdly complex. Similarly, more advanced versions of the AK-47 are slightly less reliable, due to their increase in complexity and reliance on precision parts. Of course, the Lasgun is basically an AK-47 that's perfectly accurate, hits like a high-powered sniper rifle, and can be reloaded by setting its ammo on fire. Presumably, it's manufactured from half a dozen machine stamped pieces snapped together like legos by a low ranking techpriest, with a little superglue to hold them all together.

Kilkrazy wrote:

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.

Titans have been toned down from the earlier fluff.In Execution Hour it is said that Titan weaponry will barely scratch the surface of a warship.

The battery of a lasgun is an astonishingly advanced and complex piece of technology.

I was part of a thread much like this a while ago. The person I was debating with continually said that there was no proof that lasgun's were easier to produce than Tau weapons.....
arguing this I said it was common sense there didn't need to be proof. To arm trillions upon trillions of men you needed a cheap easily produced weapon.


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The thread ended up being locked so there's really no point to giving a link unless anyone wants one. I believe Killkrazy is the one who locked it. Do you remember the argument im talking about?

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I was part of a thread much like this a while ago. The person I was debating with continually said that there was no proof that lasgun's were easier to produce than Tau weapons.....
arguing this I said it was common sense there didn't need to be proof. To arm trillions upon trillions of men you needed a cheap easily produced weapon.

No, you just need a massive production capacity. Suppose a pulse rifle is 10 times easier to make than a lasgun, but the lasgun factory has 100 times the capacity. How many lasguns will get made for each pulse rifle?

Yes I didn't think of that. However I have always read about the lasguns maintainability. Complicated weapons tend to be harder to maintain. (Although I agree with you that the battery is an incredible device) Though the batteries could even be easy to produce in this time. That's what I think of the lasgun.

The lasgun and battery are probably a solid state device with about four moving parts -- the battery, the bayonet catch, and the sling swivels. Once the parts are available it can be glued together fairly easily.

However, growing laser crystal substrate to the required purity isn't easy. You need a very pure vacuum, pure raw materials and ideally a microgravity environment.

These things are all quite high tech. If your technology is advanced, it will be possible to build these things and automate them to produce the laser crystals in large quantities.

However you could never make such crystals by hand, in the way that an AK47 can be made by hand.

What probably happens in the IoM is that the laser crystals and the batteries are made by an STC, the other parts are made by hand, and then everything is assembled by hand.

IvanTih wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.

Titans have been toned down from the earlier fluff.In Execution Hour it is said that Titan weaponry will barely scratch the surface of a warship.

The imperial fleet FTW!!!

Actually, the smallest warship in the Navy's arsenals is the Cobra-class Destroyer (battleships are 10 or 20 times that size...). And it is 800 m long! On the other hand, an Imperator Titan is "only" 150m high (or 300 m, depending on the source). Not surpising that the Imperator will not do much against a warship.
And guess what? Cobra destroyers are so cheap, so mass produced, that there are hundreds of thousands of them spread all around the IoM. There are so many of these ships, that they are not even given a proper name, but a serial number like KV14267P...
Do you really think Tau war industry can do the same?

IIRC, Cobra destroyers are built in 1 day and Ship yards can do dozens at a time.

Laodamia wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.

Titans have been toned down from the earlier fluff.In Execution Hour it is said that Titan weaponry will barely scratch the surface of a warship.

The imperial fleet FTW!!!

Actually, the smallest warship in the Navy's arsenals is the Cobra-class Destroyer (battleships are 10 or 20 times that size...). And it is 800 m long! On the other hand, an Imperator Titan is "only" 150m high (or 300 m, depending on the source). Not surpising that the Imperator will not do much against a warship.
And guess what? Cobra destroyers are so cheap, so mass produced, that there are hundreds of thousands of them spread all around the IoM. There are so many of these ships, that they are not even given a proper name, but a serial number like KV14267P...
Do you really think Tau war industry can do the same?

I should imagine they could build the seed for a fleet of aggressively hegemonizing Von Neumann machines if they wanted to. They have got AI after all.

I'd say that the Imperium on Man has a better tech... now the thing changes when it comes to technicians.

Tau are willing to expand their horizons, while in my opinion, most Ad-Mech know what they do as well as -I- do. They just happend to have simple and very utilitarian designs (Standard Templace Constructs) and good instruction manuals (rituals).

Kilkrazy wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:A Manta killed a Titan on Taros.

An Warhound, smallest and weakest of all the Titans. We are talking about Imperator Titan with Void Shields Heavy Plasma Batteries. The one that destroyed Tyranid Bio-Titan with ine shot.


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agnosto wrote:
You obviously don't know how many railguns a like force of Tau would field when facing titans. At 2000 points, I field 5+ I've actually aced a warhound in the first turn of shooting before.

Tau are not afraid of giant robots or spaceships, they ARE afraid of the limitless numbers of IG that can just keep throwing themselves willy-nilly at them ala Siege of Saint Petersburg...

Even million Railguns won't help against even one of him. Imperials can hold entire SOLAR SYSTEM with one Imperator.

What a pity they did not put one on Cadia.

They did. Cadia held - again.

I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


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crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy would have been destroyed..
They are just kept around as moving targets and as seen in the HH, you don't want SM thinking too much so keep them busy...

Fixed.

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

The IoM is constantly in a state of war against Chaos worshippers, renegades, xenos empires, tyranids, pirate raiders, etc.

It has held in this very precarious situation for 10 000 years. Over the years, the IoM crushed uncountable xenos and chaos empires. I doubt any other race could have achieved a fraction of the IoM's military history.
How did the IoM survive? Thanks to its tech.

Laodamia wrote:The IoM is constantly in a state of war against Chaos worshippers, renegades, xenos empires, tyranids, pirate raiders, etc.

It has held in this very precarious situation for 10 000 years. Over the years, the IoM crushed uncountable xenos and chaos empires. I doubt any other race could have achieved a fraction of the IoM's military history.
How did the IoM survive? Thanks to its tech.

So your point is that there is no point in these other factions existing at all since they'll inevitably be wiped out by the IoM.

agnosto wrote:
So your point is that there is no point in these other factions existing at all since they'll inevitably be wiped out by the IoM.

How did you come up with a conclusion like that? I never said anything like your post.
I said that the IoM survived thanks to its tech, and that no other race in the W40K universe could have done the same in the IoM's situation.

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Well can you even imagine the size of the galaxy? And found a way to kill a daemon? Imperium is stretched across Milky Way from one side to other, while Tau empire is empire with several solar systems. Like comparing San Marino with the rest of the world. And Tau is fighting against several Ork raids, what's left of Hive Fleet Behemot, Eldar pirate raids and they have several Necron incursions (on Imperial planets). IoM is fighting all that + 100 times more. Tau didn't have some major opponent since the founding of the empire, and they get lucky last when the Imperium attacked them because of Hive Fleet Kraken. Tau are way to much lucky race

My conclusion at the end: Tau have advanced technology - Imperium has more practical.

Grey Templar wrote:
I am afraid you are wrong.

The Imperium has lost very little technology since the Horus Heresy.

Humanity, on the other hand, has lost quite abit since the Dark Age.

the Imperium actually has greater scientific knowledge then when the Emperor began the Great Crusade.

Probably true if you only consider how many different weapons systems and other technological devices are in existence, but if you look at production capacity, Imperium is far worse off today than pre-Heresy. Much of the high-end stuff either can be produced in dwindling numbers, or not at all, since there is little understanding of technology used and individual Forge Worlds jealously guard their secrets. Take something like Leman Russ Executioner. If the last Forge World producing the tank is eaten by Tyranids, or some lab assistent spills coffee on a crucial STC printout, no more Executioners. By contrast, Tau can simply put their scientists to work to produce some new variant of Hammerhead and then Earth Caste can build a factory and crank them out as many as are needed.

Laodamia wrote:

agnosto wrote:
So your point is that there is no point in these other factions existing at all since they'll inevitably be wiped out by the IoM.

How did you come up with a conclusion like that? I never said anything like your post.
I said that the IoM survived thanks to its tech, and that no other race in the W40K universe could have done the same in the IoM's situation.

Yeah, humor doesn't always translate well over the interwebs. I was just being a butt.

Laodamia wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

The IoM is constantly in a state of war against Chaos worshippers, renegades, xenos empires, tyranids, pirate raiders, etc.

It has held in this very precarious situation for 10 000 years. Over the years, the IoM crushed uncountable xenos and chaos empires. I doubt any other race could have achieved a fraction of the IoM's military history.
How did the IoM survive? Thanks to its tech.

And it's faith

Praise the Emperor for he is the salvation of Mankind

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IvanTih wrote:
A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

And in other fluff, a Baneblade was destroyed by Krootox Riders...

Backfire wrote:

IvanTih wrote:
A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

And in other fluff, a Baneblade was destroyed by Krootox Riders...

How did they ever manage to do that??? o.0 By eating the baneblade?
In what novel did it take place?

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Laodamia wrote:

Backfire wrote:

IvanTih wrote:
A bog standard Baneblade Superheavy Tank called Father Time tanked being fired upon by an entire formation of Tau Hammerheads armed with railguns with nothing to show for it other than a few inch deep craters, a wrecked sponsoon gun, and a banged up paint job.

And in other fluff, a Baneblade was destroyed by Krootox Riders...

How did they ever manage to do that??? o.0 By eating the baneblade?
In what novel did it take place?

It's on Battle Missions, "Linebreaker" mission fluff. Baneblade immobilized by Hammerhead, then destroyed by Krootox Riders. See, they're not so tough.

Kilkrazy wrote:If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Shhhh. Get out of here with that crazy thing called logic; we'll have none of that here. Geez, Raid (bug killer) has been around for 40k years by the time this game takes place and yet planet after planet is eaten by Tyranids.

Kilkrazy wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

"Invade the Eye of Terror"? You don't "invade" the Eye of Terror any more than you "invade" the warp. It's not as though the fleets inside can break through the Cadian Gate with more than the rare blockade runner. The naval forces picketing Cadia alone outnumber the whole of the traitor fleets inside it.

I honestly don't believe that only ten baneblades can be produced in a year, unless there's a very low loss rate and demand for them, in which case it makes sense that the production facilities would be used for equipment that's in higher demand. Terminator suits I'm more inclined to believe, though. Not because they're just that hard to make, but because they're hideously impractical, expensive toys for the Space Marines, who make up a smaller percent of the Imperial Military machine than the Titan legions stationed on Mars alone. Space Marines are outnumbered by the Guard's main battle tanks, by the Guard's superheavy tanks, presumably by the battleships of the Imperial Navy... How big a priority can giving them some shiny new toys that cost more than it takes to arm several regiments be?

Kilkrazy wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Because they also lose 1 battlecruiser everyday, sometimes 2.
Also they make 0 Terminator suits every year.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Because they also lose 1 battlecruiser everyday, sometimes 2.
Also they make 0 Terminator suits every year.

No.
They make everything neccessary to be part of the storys of GW and BL.

The perfect cycle.
Nobody will ever run out of units.

And I'd prefer sources for these wierd numbers some are pulling here.

1hadhq wrote:
And I'd prefer sources for these wierd numbers some are pulling here.

This.

1hadhq wrote:No.
They make everything neccessary to be part of the storys of GW and BL.

The perfect cycle.
Nobody will ever run out of units.

+1

Why can they make so much battleships? So that we can play BFG.
Why can they make so few Baneblades? Because it costs 450pts.

Kilkrazy wrote:
Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

IIRC Stbss build Baneblades like Chinese munition for the AK
The same logical question would be that USA can build Abrams MBT in hundreds and only 1 Raptor per year.
And none ship, even Necron and Eldar ones, can't navigate in Warp space. And EoT is swarming with Chaos Daemons.

If IoM didn't have to much enemies, than IG would be replaced by billions of SM.
Tau tech is awesome, but even they fail when it comes to fight against the forces of the Warp.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Because they also lose 1 battlecruiser everyday, sometimes 2.
Also they make 0 Terminator suits every year.

Actually, Terminator armor is quite replicable. the main reason they don't make completely new suits is that it is far easier to repair a pre-existing suit then build a new one from scratch.

chapters only maintain Terminator armor for the First Company and as such don't need a massive number of suits. they simply maintain the current suits.


if a new chapter is founded you can bet that some new suits are made. and there was quite abit of wargear left over after the heresy. 2nd founding chapters and original Legion members tend to be rolling in equipment and Cashes of Equipment are constantly being found.

Retribution wrote:I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


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crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

That's not biological. That's prosthetic. I'm talking about gene enhancement, like the space marine project. Entirely organic substances manufactured or grown in-body. You're talking about computerized prosthetics attaching to bodies using basically the same amount of biology as we do today (possibly more advanced neurology, however.)

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


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crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

That's not biological. That's prosthetic. I'm talking about gene enhancement, like the space marine project. Entirely organic substances manufactured or grown in-body. You're talking about computerized prosthetics attaching to bodies using basically the same amount of biology as we do today (possibly more advanced neurology, however.)

Also, because Tau have alien allies with more physical prowess, they might not feel as strong a need for bio egineering. Why make super Tau when you can send in your xeno friends who're fine with combat.

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


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crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

That's not biological. That's prosthetic. I'm talking about gene enhancement, like the space marine project. Entirely organic substances manufactured or grown in-body. You're talking about computerized prosthetics attaching to bodies using basically the same amount of biology as we do today (possibly more advanced neurology, however.)

Also Tau biology differs from cast to caste. The fire caste has bred nothing but warriors for the last several thousand generations. Its not as exact as actually manipulating the genes like SM do, but it dose have an effect.

Also Keep in mind traditional Tau war doctrine disregards me-lee combat, so they would likely have little reason to even do genetic manipulation in that regard.

Psychosaur wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


Automatically Appended Next Post:

crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

That's not biological. That's prosthetic. I'm talking about gene enhancement, like the space marine project. Entirely organic substances manufactured or grown in-body. You're talking about computerized prosthetics attaching to bodies using basically the same amount of biology as we do today (possibly more advanced neurology, however.)

Also Tau biology differs from cast to caste. The fire caste has bred nothing but warriors for the last several thousand generations. Its not as exact as actually manipulating the genes like SM do, but it dose have an effect.

Also Keep in mind traditional Tau war doctrine disregards me-lee combat, so they would likely have little reason to even do genetic manipulation in that regard.

That's breeding. Science-hating priests have been doing it for over a thousand years. Breeding perfection is nothing new, just look at our dogs.


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Mr Nobody wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


Automatically Appended Next Post:

crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

That's not biological. That's prosthetic. I'm talking about gene enhancement, like the space marine project. Entirely organic substances manufactured or grown in-body. You're talking about computerized prosthetics attaching to bodies using basically the same amount of biology as we do today (possibly more advanced neurology, however.)

Also, because Tau have alien allies with more physical prowess, they might not feel as strong a need for bio egineering. Why make super Tau when you can send in your xeno friends who're fine with combat.

And that's an excuse for having less knowledge about biology?

You don't know the Tau have less knowledge about biology. There is so little fluff about the Tau that we know almost nothing of their society, politics and technology, or anything except current front line military.

The key point to all IoM knowledge is that it is guarded, restricted, proscribed and altogether available only to a tiny elite who do not understand it and treat it as a special religion.

It's like the rats on a cruise ship. They get to go all over the world in air conditioned luxury, eating the best foods, and experiencing many different climates and countries (if they get odd the ship).

But they haven't got the faintest idea what is happening.

Most of the IoM is like that.

Kilkrazy wrote:It's like the rats on a cruise ship. They get to go all over the world in air conditioned luxury, eating the best foods, and experiencing many different climates and countries (if they get odd the ship).

But they haven't got the faintest idea what is happening.

Most of the IoM is like that.

I like this analogy. I'd argue that much of the Adeptus Mechancus do have some sort of basic understanding of the more banal tech pieces, but in the large you're right.

Would this be similar to say, the Convenant in Halo? They don't truly understand the technology behind most of their weaponry, much of it is reverse engineered. Whereas the principles of human tech is understood completely.

The adeptus mechanicus are like the crew.

They understand enough of how the technology works in order to operate it and do some basic repairs if it goes wrong. There is no-one on board who actually knows how to design and build everything, though.

I have to say, this is just the impression I get from the fluff. For all I know, the IoM has worlds of research scientists and engineers, and is furiously designing new stuff all the time. Maybe none of it ever gets released.

Kilkrazy wrote:
I have to say, this is just the impression I get from the fluff. For all I know, the IoM has worlds of research scientists and engineers, and is furiously designing new stuff all the time. Maybe none of it ever gets released.

The Tyranid Codex mentions the Imperium abandoning a Experimental Weapons World (essentially a Forge World for...experimental stuff?). The Orks get hold of it, using the stuff to blow themselves and much of the invading nids during their 'tests'.

Kilkrazy wrote:
For all I know, the IoM has worlds of research scientists and engineers, and is furiously designing new stuff all the time. Maybe none of it ever gets released.

That's actually what it appears to be. There is research done to produce new and better weapons, or new variants of existing ones. This doesn't really enter production, because what has been produced is cheaper, simpler, more reliable, in higher demand (being the existing standard and all), or any combination of the above. Someone like an Inquisitor might get a piece of experimental or otherwise unfit for mass deployment technology, if they have a reason and happen to know about it, but the Munitorum for instance would consider it heresy to adopt new weapons on any but the smallest of scales, centuries from the present.

Kilkrazy wrote:The adeptus mechanicus are like the crew.

They understand enough of how the technology works in order to operate it and do some basic repairs if it goes wrong. There is no-one on board who actually knows how to design and build everything, though.

That's not specifically true. it's more accurate to say that there's noone creative enough. those at the top certainly know enough to design new weapons, but they're more machine now, than man, and thus have lost their creativity for the most part. Those at the bottom might be creative enough still, but they have problems with the understanding part.

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'd just like to point out that the AK-47 has been redesigned, numerous times...hence the 74, 101, 103, and 107


Automatically Appended Next Post:

crazypsyko666 wrote:Let me put it this way: Tau technology is more progressive, but the Imperium's tech is enough to mass produce supermen with weapons that tear down planets. While all is degrading in the Imperium, what's left is arguably some of the most powerful stuff in the galaxy. Tau technology is also significantly more narrow. They work mostly on machines and computers, while the Imperium has a much broader focus. They work on not only warmachines, but vast pieces of industry, biological enhancements and genetics. Tau have what? Better first aid kits?

The Tau do have biological enhancements, hence the stories of veteran battlesuit pilots with cybernetic replacement limbs, and battlesuit neural interfaces

That's not biological. That's prosthetic. I'm talking about gene enhancement, like the space marine project. Entirely organic substances manufactured or grown in-body. You're talking about computerized prosthetics attaching to bodies using basically the same amount of biology as we do today (possibly more advanced neurology, however.)

I wouldn't say cybernetic prosthetics are common today, then again i don't see many giant robotic-suits running around in Iraq either...just maybe they're more advanced...by a little bit

Imperial society discourages technological advances because such advances may result to societal upheaval. Dark Age of Technology was just that and IoM does not want it to happen again. Like all major structures, IoM is interested mostly on its survival and preservation, and wants to keep things stable. Treating technology in religious manner is a great way to control potentially instabilising technological advances.

This does not mean that no innovations or technological advances are ever made. But it must be a daunting task for innovator to convince everyone that this new technology is safe and its profileration does not lead to unwanted consequences. It probably requires horrible amount of bureaucracy and theological debating.

From Imperial point of view, Tau are on their way to ruin with their rapid, uncontrolled technological advances. Tau of course disagree, saying that they are doing it smarter & better than the Imperium. Just like humans have always balked at Eldar warnings...what can those old losers who themselves screwed things up can possibly teach us??

From a practical viewpoint, an active, large scale research and development programme like the IoM’s, which never produces anything useful, is just a huge waste of resources.

Kilkrazy wrote:From a practical viewpoint, an active, large scale research and development programme like the IoM’s, which never produces anything useful, is just a huge waste of resources.

Probably quite a lot of that programme is actually dedicated for investigating and scrutinizing new designs..."Look! I figured a way to reconfigure those condensators so that the power output of this Plasma gun improves by 12%!" "Hmmm...after consulting the Holy Synod of Divine Plasma, they point out that your reconfiguration violates what the Apocrypha of Amalthea, Book II Chapter 4, has stated about the proper order of Type XII plasma condensators." "Err...hmm...yes but I think that the Council's interpretation from M37 actually misinterpreted the wording and..."

Basically, it's probably like a huge variant of YMDC.

Kilkrazy wrote:From a practical viewpoint, an active, large scale research and development programme like the IoM’s, which never produces anything useful, is just a huge waste of resources.

Actually, they are finding new things, that will probably be produced... tomorrow. And we now that in space (at least in 40k), tomorrow never happens

Notable technology advances by the IoM in the past 15,000 years.

M27.877.908
Put bobbles on the left pauldron of power armour.

M33.865.776
Removed bobbles from the left pauldron of power armour.
Changed the helmet design from being pointy to deflect projectiles, to being flat to act as a bullet trap.

M36.667.846
Attached a gun turret on top of the Rhino. Removed the mobility self-repair mechanism.

M39.867.127
Recovered Tau plasma technology. Decided it was too dangerous to use.

Kilkrazy wrote:
I, Killkrazy, admit I don't know anything about the Imperium of Man

Suggested correction.

Kilkrazy wrote:Notable technology advances by the IoM in the past 15,000 years.

M27.877.908
Put bobbles on the left pauldron of power armour.

M33.865.776
Removed bobbles from the left pauldron of power armour.
Changed the helmet design from being pointy to deflect projectiles, to being flat to act as a bullet trap.

M36.667.846
Attached a gun turret on top of the Rhino. Removed the mobility self-repair mechanism.

M39.867.127
Recovered Tau plasma technology. Decided it was too dangerous to use.

hahaha

Nice point. + 1

There has been more than just that

There is a movie called the battle for terra, I saw some of it with my siblings and it is aimed more at a younger audience. However in the story humans ran out of resources on earth (go figure) so they terraformed and colonized mars and Venus. The two other planets wanted independence so war broke out and the planets were blown to hell, including Earth. Therefore the survivors of the war went to the nearest habitable planet (the setting) and began gathering the natives and blowin' stuff up. In the beginning of the movie the natives look primitive and peaceful, however later you find out that they have advanced weaponry none of the regular natives know about. The secrecy keeps the tech from being used for wrong and to hurt each other. The leaders of the civilization blind them with religion and other cultural things to keep the world at peace. It reminded me very much of the IoM.

It's a clever idea. I think the Kroot are like that, actually.

The thing about the IoM, though, is that it has been in the worst crisis in its history for the past 10,000 years, so if they haven't cracked out the hidden real technology yet, it's because there isn't any.

Kilkrazy wrote:The thing about the IoM, though, is that it has been in the worst crisis in its history for the past 10,000 years, so if they haven't cracked out the hidden real technology yet, it's because there isn't any.

You mean they don't have any super-galaxy-auto-win weapons that can solve all their problems in one go? No, not really. But no other race does either.

Upon encountering Necrons, the Adeptus started experiments regarding Guass Weaponry. They succesfully replicated a gauss cannon, but the engergy used was mind-boggingly enormous. So they do understand how Gauss Tech works, they just have no idea where the Necrons are getting the energy to fire them at such a rate from.

Regarding the Machine Spirit, these are basically AI's right? Would these be more advanced than the Tau equivalent, or less so?

Emperors Faithful wrote:
Regarding the Machine Spirit, these are basically AI's right? Would these be more advanced than the Tau equivalent, or less so?

That's a good question. I would say that current Tau AI tech is superior to IoM's simply through choice. IoM was burned by AI in the past (the metal men war, etc) but Tau haven't had this problem so utilize the technology more extensively. In game, there are several types of drones that are completely autonomous of direct control; however, it is possible for a unit to possess a drone controller if the drone is in a unit or attached to a ship. One thing is for certain, there is no evidence that the Tau view drones or related AI mechanisms as divine spirits worthy of worship as IoM does.

That could perhaps be bad thing.

And there certainly isn't any evidence (that I'm aware of) that indicates that AI's are prevalent throughout the larger Tau Vehichles and Ships.

Emperors Faithful wrote:That could perhaps be bad thing.

And there certainly isn't any evidence (that I'm aware of) that indicates that AI's are prevalent throughout the larger Tau Vehichles and Ships.

It's entirely possible that it could be a bad thing; however, the Tau have shown a knack for taking something potentially dangerous and producing sufficient control over it to make it harmless (i.e, plasma weapons).

In a drone form there is. Most mid to large Tau vessels have entire racks of drones as well as drone controlled turrets (Manta is a good example of this). As for the spacecraft, I simply don't know; maybe someone that's played BFG could enlighten us as to if anything is mentioned there.


edited for spelling.

agnosto wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:That could perhaps be bad thing.

And there certainly isn't any evidence (that I'm aware of) that indicates that AI's are prevalent throughout the larger Tau Vehichles and Ships.

It's entirely possible that it could be a bad thing; however, the Tau have shown a knack for taking something potentially dangerous and producing sufficient control over it to make it harmless (i.e, plasma weapons).

In a drone form there is. Most mid to large Tau vessels have entire racks of drones as well as drone controlled turrets (Manta is a good example of this). As for the spacecraft, I simply don't know; maybe someone that's played BFG could enlighten us as to if anything is mentioned there.

BFG? That's me!

Not much is said in BFG about tau drone tech. So far, I heard about tau missile and torpedoes that are controlled by advanced AI which means they can effectively track their target through the battlefield.

Tau attack crafts (like mantas, barracudas, etc) also use drone AI to help the pilot in manoeuvering its aircraft (with tactical displays, targeting feeds, etc).

Drone AIs also equip the defensive turrets and naval batteries of all Tau warships. These AIs don't only improve the accuracy of Tau naval weapons, but they can also coordinate the salvoes of all the weapons of one ship, or even of an entire squadron of vessels.

In terms of game, means that the Tau player can re-roll its dice for touching an ennemy ship (in certain occasions) and that tau missiles and torpedoes can change directions (unlike imperial torpedoes).

xXSir MontyXx wrote:There is a movie called the battle for terra, I saw some of it with my siblings and it is aimed more at a younger audience. However in the story humans ran out of resources on earth (go figure) so they terraformed and colonized mars and Venus. The two other planets wanted independence so war broke out and the planets were blown to hell, including Earth. Therefore the survivors of the war went to the nearest habitable planet (the setting) and began gathering the natives and blowin' stuff up. In the beginning of the movie the natives look primitive and peaceful, however later you find out that they have advanced weaponry none of the regular natives know about. The secrecy keeps the tech from being used for wrong and to hurt each other. The leaders of the civilization blind them with religion and other cultural things to keep the world at peace. It reminded me very much of the IoM.

Because when i think of the IoM...i think "peaceful" xD

Probably so , However if I had some aces up my sleeve I would only set them loose at the most critical of situation's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didnt mean the natives of that planet were EXACTLY like the IoM. However im sure there are technologies that are being tested that might even be considered heretical ideas.

of course, the authorities testing those Technologies are the same ones who decide whats Heresy and whats not.


the Ad Mech slaps Tech Heresy on certain technologies to keep the unexpierienced from handeling dangerous things or because they don't want bad things to happen.

Artificially creating completely organic creatures is forbidden for the same reason autonomous AI is banned. they might rebel and start another Iron Man war.

Xeno tech is banned in most cases because people might get hurt, like holding the wrong end of a strange weapon or setting the power level to something wrong. Xeno contact is also forbidden because of Disease. who knows what nasty cold those T'au might give you? (This is why, if we ever do encounter aliens, we can't allow for friendly contact. nasty space germs. of course it likely would work both ways, like in War of the Worlds )

The Leman Russ Punisher Gatling Gun is a newly introduced weapon.

Well the tau can replicate hover tech, and the imperium doesn't have any way to create more. If that doesn't state tau tech is greater, then I'm not sure what does.

juraigamer wrote:Well the tau can replicate hover tech, and the imperium doesn't have any way to create more.

You mean that there's a finite number of Land Speeders?

the Imperium hasn't lost Hover tech(although Land Speeders don't use hover tech, but rather skim on Grav plates)


they don't use it on vehicles much anymore because of the inherent dange of Skimmers. a fast moving vehicle can be shot out of the sky, killing the occupants.

for battle tanks it makes much more sense to have them in touch with good ol' terra firma.


about the only place you see Hover tech in the imperium is in Civilian vehicles for wealthy individuals.

Grey Templar wrote:the Imperium hasn't lost Hover tech(although Land Speeders don't use hover tech, but rather skim on Grav plates)


they don't use it on vehicles much anymore because of the inherent dange of Skimmers. a fast moving vehicle can be shot out of the sky, killing the occupants.

for battle tanks it makes much more sense to have them in touch with good ol' terra firma.


about the only place you see Hover tech in the imperium is in Civilian vehicles for wealthy individuals.

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

As far as space germs; how come rogue traders aren't dropping like flies? It's 40k years in the future, you'd think they'd have access to such things as air scrubbers and haz-mat suits that are readily available now...

I think the xenophobia of the IoM is more self-preservation of the status-quo than any real fear of disease. The real disease is outside ideas, kind of like North Korea or to some extent China of a decade ago. The Tau codex includes a report by an Inquisitor about a planet that was trading with Tau for advanced manufacturing and agricultural tech and how it's heresy, blah blah blah. You can't have your peasants using automated factories and farms when you want to come along and conscript them later. You need them lean and angry so you can blame their problems on xeno scum.

juraigamer wrote:Well the tau can replicate hover tech, and the imperium doesn't have any way to create more. If that doesn't state tau tech is greater, then I'm not sure what does.

Imperium can replicate warp field generator to travel much faster trough space (warp travel). I think that this does it.

agnosto wrote:

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

Well, yes o_ô Seriously, would you prefer to roam the battlefield, between the bullets, the flamers, the missiles, in a sturdy iron-covered earth-stuck big truck, or in a flying thing, without really any armor (since it would be too heavy), and that can fall anytime?

I choose the Rhino :p worse that can happen is getting stuck in mud or something :p

agnosto wrote:
I think the xenophobia of the IoM is more self-preservation of the status-quo than any real fear of disease. The real disease is outside ideas, kind of like North Korea or to some extent China of a decade ago. The Tau codex includes a report by an Inquisitor about a planet that was trading with Tau for advanced manufacturing and agricultural tech and how it's heresy, blah blah blah. You can't have your peasants using automated factories and farms when you want to come along and conscript them later. You need them lean and angry so you can blame their problems on xeno scum.

+1

Totally agree. The IoM's xenophobia is not rationnal. It is not justified either. It is simply a way to unite the human masses against a common ennemy by creating fear of the xenos. Sounds like a dictatorship actually.It reminds me of Hitler and his anti-jewish opinions.

Mikalichou wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

Well, yes o_ô Seriously, would you prefer to roam the battlefield, between the bullets, the flamers, the missiles, in a sturdy iron-covered earth-stuck big truck, or in a flying thing, without really any armor (since it would be too heavy), and that can fall anytime?

I choose the Rhino :p worse that can happen is getting stuck in mud or something :p

A devilfish is just as durable as a rhino and, with wargear, not nearly as weak to anti-transport fire (disruption pods). Plus, a skimmer is able to move quickly and hide behind terrain. Seriously, the only reason that Marines don't use flying transport (other than the new stormchicken) is for game balance not anything that makes sense.

This is a great thread. Tau are clearly the more advanced. The Imperium is barely hanging on technology-wise. Just look at those poor gaks the Marines Malevolent--running around with mixed match armor and what not. The Imperium are like Romans in the 4th century who were looking at the Colosseum and Aqueducts saying, "How in the F@#% did our ancestors build that?"

Mikalichou wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Because it's much safer to trundle along in a rhino? Naw, not buying it.

Well, yes o_ô Seriously, would you prefer to roam the battlefield, between the bullets, the flamers, the missiles, in a sturdy iron-covered earth-stuck big truck, or in a flying thing, without really any armor (since it would be too heavy), and that can fall anytime?

I choose the Rhino :p worse that can happen is getting stuck in mud or something :p

A devilfish is just as durable as a Rhino or Chimera, and can land via atmospheric entry by themselves

1hadhq wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

agnosto wrote:I get it, I get it; Imperium technology is so great that all the races in the galaxy have been destroyed....oh wait, they haven't so obviously it's not all powerful like some of you are trying to convince everyone of.

Yeah, kinda.

If the IoM can build an 800m long battlecruiser every day, why have they invaded the Eye of Terror with their 3.5 million ships they have built in the past 10,000 years?

How come they can build a battlecruiser every day, but only about 10 heavy tanks and terminator armour suits a year?

Because they also lose 1 battlecruiser everyday, sometimes 2.
Also they make 0 Terminator suits every year.

No.
They make everything neccessary to be part of the storys of GW and BL.

The perfect cycle.
Nobody will ever run out of units.

And I'd prefer sources for these wierd numbers some are pulling here.

Agreed.
Terminator ARMOR IS IN PRODUCTION!
It is so much more advanced than the hersey variant of terminator Armor.

Lots of stuff in the imperium has changed. The bolters don't jam as much as they use too. And the Guardsmen are actually better trained than the hersey era ones.

The Imperium has improved greatly. Their Ships are better than before, and hence why Chaos keeps getting its arse kicked.

The Tau don't have the massive ships that can tear apart an entire solar system in 1 minute.

Imperium has made their own tech.
The tau have stolen it from the Squats... erm. I mean Space Dwarves.The tau have a crippling government.

The Imperium has millions of planets. The Tau 90 or so.

Imperium has warp capabilities, the Tau do not.

The Imperium have plasma weaponry. The Tau do but it kinda sucks.

The Imperium has rail guns the size of a freaking tau ship. The Tau have them but unit sized +1 for tau.

The Imperium has hover craft used in civilian vechiles and artibutes vechiles. Don't believe me? Well they do. its just hover technology can easily be made, its just that they are so easy to hit and they crash alot.

The Imperium builds millions of armor, weapons, and vehicles of war. From a Single forge world factory. Enough said.

The Imperium has a vast amount of small empires, and the Imperium is spread thinly. the Tau are centered around their homeplanet.

The Imperium just wins with basically overwhelming numbers, armor, weapons, and higher tech. The Tau just have tech that looks better and makes cooler noises.

Retribution wrote:
A devilfish is just as durable as a Rhino or Chimera, and can land via atmospheric entry by themselves

Skimmers can crash by passing above bushes. Tracks are safer

Asherian Command wrote:The Imperium have plasma weaponry. The Tau do but it kinda sucks.

Imperium plasma explodes, their plasma don't.



I think that rather than trying to find who has the biggest... "cannon", why don't we just ally with them, and use their technology? Yeah, no xenos rule, and all that, but... well, we can just consider they are humans who look a little sick no?

Mikalichou wrote:



I think that rather than trying to find who has the biggest... "cannon", why don't we just ally with them, and use their technology? Yeah, no xenos rule, and all that, but... well, we can just consider they are humans who look a little sick no?

You can't ally with them.
Their "friend / foe " identifier systems suck that hard, its likely youre getting overrun by any threat because one of their priest-caste got it wrong again.
Look up nids, DE, necrons.....

Plus, the IoM has its own bound xenos to be inspired..... on Mars.
Why learn from trainees if you have a Master at hand?

Kilkrazy wrote:Notable technology advances by the IoM in the past 15,000 years.

M27.877.908
Put bobbles on the left pauldron of power armour.

M33.865.776
Removed bobbles from the left pauldron of power armour.
Changed the helmet design from being pointy to deflect projectiles, to being flat to act as a bullet trap.

M36.667.846
Attached a gun turret on top of the Rhino. Removed the mobility self-repair mechanism.

M39.867.127
Recovered Tau plasma technology. Decided it was too dangerous to use.

Yes, from the perspective of Marines, this is true. But marines are not scientists anyway so they're irrelevant to the discussion

Melissia wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Notable technology advances by the IoM in the past 15,000 years.

M27.877.908
Put bobbles on the left pauldron of power armour.

M33.865.776
Removed bobbles from the left pauldron of power armour.
Changed the helmet design from being pointy to deflect projectiles, to being flat to act as a bullet trap.

M36.667.846
Attached a gun turret on top of the Rhino. Removed the mobility self-repair mechanism.

M39.867.127
Recovered Tau plasma technology. Decided it was too dangerous to use.

Yes, from the perspective of Marines, this is true. But marines are not scientists anyway so they're irrelevant to the discussion

+1 Melissia

I have always seen the IOM's tech base as a mix of highs and lows, from a high of plasma reactors, and teleporters, vortex weapons, and multi-gigawatt man portable weapons, down to post earth era WW1 designed MBTs ( the leman russ for example) and the massive use of people power over automation ( I seem to remember an illustration in a BFG book showing hundreds of crewmen towing a torpedo into a launch tube using ropes! )

So in some areas yes the IOM is currently higher tech than the Tau empire...but the Tau are rapidly closing the gap and have exceeded the imperium in many areas, the main places I see a lag in the Tau's tech base is space travel speeds and range and teleportation systems, since the Tau have not exhibited any sort of advance in that arena of tech.

But as to anti-grav, plasma, charged particle, AI , social sciences, and a whole host of non combat based technologies I would say the Tau are leading the IOM in advances and continuing to widen the gap.

but thats just my opinion.

Maybe if Space marines were like Spartans from Halo who have doctoral degrees in....... everything.

Laodamia wrote:
Totally agree. The IoM's xenophobia is not rationnal. It is not justified either. It is simply a way to unite the human masses against a common ennemy by creating fear of the xenos. Sounds like a dictatorship actually.It reminds me of Hitler and his anti-jewish opinions.

If Tau have suffered like Humanity, for thousands of years hunted, killed and tourchered by aliens, mutants and heretics - they would be xenophobic to. Tau are technologically advanced - but they are not wise at all.

Definitely not, Tau are like the nerd at school that was sheltered by his parents for a LONG time and gets perfect grade's. The Imperium is like the kid that was getting perfect grade's but got overwhelmed by the work load and fell behind and then is always being bullied around for thinking he was better than everyone else while at his peak.

Once again a thread has been dragged completely off the topic.

Sigh.