Exactly how many bullets can Space Marine carry?

I know for a fact that IG do not need secundary pack because their Lasgun can recharge on sunlight, but what about Space Marines?
I know that standard bolter can hold 20-30 rounds, they can expand that up to 60 rounds. But how many rounds they can carry with them.
I have never seen (expect in Fire Warrior and upcoming Space Marine) that Marines EVER reload their bolter - not even in the "Ultramarines".
I thought that they reload in their spare time - when we are not looking. But when reading about the Battle for Macragge, the defense of the polar fortress, I read that remaining 6 Ultramarines Terminators hold entire Tyranid invasion force for 6 HOURS. They formed a circle and slowly dying one by one. How the hell did they manage to reload their Storm Bolters? Knowing the Tyranids and how they attack, they just wouldn't have time to reload because of their speed. So how do they do it?

Presumably they didn't reload their storm bolters, but instead fired until their magazines were empty and then fought with their power weapons and power fists.
As to other stuff, well, dramatic license probably takes precedence here.

Also, remember that marines are SUPPOSED to fight in quick, decisive shock battles. Gruelling battles of attrition may require two laspacks, one to fire while the other recharges, swapping the two endlessly, but fast shock battles are going to be over before you expend your ammunition, and the extra bullets just weigh you down.

My guess is as the above. Those rare instances where marines fight for more than like an hour at a time, they probably whip out the power weapons and start the beatdown hand-to-hand.

Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour. This would normally mean that SM only carry one mag when they go to battle, which means only 20-60 rounds for the entire battle. I know that SM are especially skilled marksmen and that they often stick to the motto "one shot, one kill", but it sounds quite unrealistic, to say the least.

I know we need to think about the "rule of cool", but I have to disagree here, because I think seeing a superhuman reload his massive gun super-fast (a bit like in CoD ) would be bloody awesome.

I would definitely like to see some SM minis reloading their bolters or see a SM reload his gun at least once in the entire film Ultramarines.

I have a few minis modeled to be reloading. It DOES look cool, I have to admit.
However, the effort it took was surprising, and I'm glad it was only one or two of them I converted.

Laodamia wrote:Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour.

They come in the srpues in sets of 2. You got large ones for Boltgun's chargers and smaller ones for Bolt Pistol's chargers.

It just happends that most people won't put them on their minis.

Dark wrote:

Laodamia wrote:Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour.

They come in the srpues in sets of 2. You got large ones for Boltgun's chargers and smaller ones for Bolt Pistol's chargers.

It just happends that most people won't put them on their minis.

Ok for that, but what about "Ultramarines"? They didn't change mag even once and movie is so what realistic than video games.


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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Presumably they didn't reload their storm bolters, but instead fired until their magazines were empty and then fought with their power weapons and power fists.
As to other stuff, well, dramatic license probably takes precedence here.

You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?
I don't buy it. Single Genesteller can rip apart Terminator armor, and they where ordinary Terminators - so just power fist and sergeant was probably had power sword with him. I understand that they shoot them for hours, and when Tyranids get near them they rip them to shreds.

Brother Coa wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Presumably they didn't reload their storm bolters, but instead fired until their magazines were empty and then fought with their power weapons and power fists.
As to other stuff, well, dramatic license probably takes precedence here.

You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?
I don't buy it. Single Genesteller can rip apart Terminator armor, and they where ordinary Terminators - so just power fist and sergeant was probably had power sword with him. I understand that they shoot them for hours, and when Tyranids get near them they rip them to shreds.

Yep, that's precisely what I'm telling you. I think you underestimate a Terminator's chances in combat. Genestealers may be able to tear Terminator Armour, but that takes effort and time. In a one-on-one fight, Terminators have the edge - they are better protected, harder hitting and more capable of doing damage. All they would have to do was occupy chokepoints in the fortress and they could in theory hold out for a very long time.

Brother Coa wrote:

Dark wrote:

Laodamia wrote:Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour.

They come in the srpues in sets of 2. You got large ones for Boltgun's chargers and smaller ones for Bolt Pistol's chargers.

It just happends that most people won't put them on their minis.

Ok for that, but what about "Ultramarines"? They didn't change mag even once and movie is so what realistic than video games.

Now that you mention it, they have them hanging on their right side.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I have a few minis modeled to be reloading. It DOES look cool, I have to admit.
However, the effort it took was surprising, and I'm glad it was only one or two of them I converted.

I would like to see pics of those models

The number of movies where I ever see anybody reloading anything is really pretty fething low..

Well, in my "Visual language" class I was told that one must assume that the viewers are smart enough to assume that the characters reload their guns, and it's only shown when it's usefull to the narrative.

Brother Coa wrote:You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?

Actually, them being able to endlessly stave off a tyranid horde for hours with just shooting is equally ridiculous. When you've got 100 critters moving at you at the speed of a Buick, you're going to tell me that a space marine is going to one-kill-per-shot and entire horde for an hour while on full auto?

Against tyranid, you don't get that long to shoot them before they make it into close combat. The only way to stop them with bolt fire is to kill them literally faster than they can run, which isn't happening, needing to reload or not.

Ailaros wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?

Actually, them being able to endlessly stave off a tyranid horde for hours with just shooting is equally ridiculous. When you've got 100 critters moving at you at the speed of a Buick, you're going to tell me that a space marine is going to one-kill-per-shot and entire horde for an hour while on full auto?

Against tyranid, you don't get that long to shoot them before they make it into close combat. The only way to stop them with bolt fire is to kill them literally faster than they can run, which isn't happening, needing to reload or not.

I imagine them, in such scenario, to be just buying time for the civilians to be evacuated.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Yep, that's precisely what I'm telling you. I think you underestimate a Terminator's chances in combat. Genestealers may be able to tear Terminator Armour, but that takes effort and time. In a one-on-one fight, Terminators have the edge - they are better protected, harder hitting and more capable of doing damage. All they would have to do was occupy chokepoints in the fortress and they could in theory hold out for a very long time.

And you underestimate the situation here.
1- Fight was not one on one but 1000 to one at the same time.
2- They did not ocupy any checkpoints, it says in the book that all 6 of them where standing in the middle of the room like one in the "Ultramarines" movie where they fought daemon in the end.
3- Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.

In the end only sergeant was alive, and he was still able to kill Carnifex before he died. And I do not underestimate Terminator armor, but Genestealer are a Genestealer and Tyranids are Tyranids. And if you don't know - Genestealer can break trough TA instantly and kill the Marine wearing it. Just see the space hulk situation.

On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?

It could be worse, they could be Russians. One guy gets a gun and the other gets the magazine.

Dark wrote:Well, in my "Visual language" class I was told that one must assume that the viewers are smart enough to assume that the characters reload their guns, and it's only shown when it's usefull to the narrative.

IMHO, this is only a poor appreciation of the audience's expectations. I agree that there is no need of showing all the scenes where a character reloads his weapon. But not showing any of these scenes at all will only destroy the film's realism and credibility. Especially in a film like Ultramarines, where the audience will probably have a very large knowledge of the story's background and will be expecting high levels of realism (especially during the action scenes ).

Laodamia wrote:

Dark wrote:Well, in my "Visual language" class I was told that one must assume that the viewers are smart enough to assume that the characters reload their guns, and it's only shown when it's usefull to the narrative.

IMHO, this is only a poor appreciation of the audience's expectations. I agree that there is no need of showing all the scenes where a character reloads his weapon. But not showing any of these scenes at all will only destroy the film's realism and credibility. Especially in a film like Ultramarines, where the audience will probably have a very large knowledge of the story's background and will be expecting high levels of realism (especially during the action scenes ).

Losing precious minutes on that normally isn't a good thing. And while we're at the "IMHO"s, the Ultras movie isn't the best example at anything but on how to not make an official movie.

What book are you referencing exactly?

As far as I knew, the only established fluff involving the First Company of the Ultramarines during the Battle for Macragge was that they defended the polar fortresses of the world, retreating step by step, and making the Tyranids pay with blood for every step they took back.

They all ended up dead in the end of it, but the Tyranids were as well.

---

As for the ammo question, in 'False Gods', the Astartes of the Sons of Horus seem to carry a couple of hundred rounds each for the standard Bolter.

As said earlier on, the Astartes are a rapid-strike 'speartip' force, moving in quickly and ripping out the throat of the enemy by destroying key targets with speed and precision. If they were in a longer engagement where they couldn't retrieve more ammo, they go to blades.

If they're fighting a planned defensive action they'd have access to more ammunition....if they could get time to restock.

Brother Coa wrote:Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:What book are you referencing exactly?

Yeah, what you're talking about sounds like you were reading some bad fan fiction, or sanctioned bad fan fiction (aka black library), or bad fan fiction in the by-pages of a rulebook (like much of what makes it into codecies).

Ailaros wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:What book are you referencing exactly?

Yeah, what you're talking about sounds like you were reading some bad fan fiction, or sanctioned bad fan fiction (aka black library), or bad fan fiction in the by-pages of a rulebook (like much of what makes it into codecies).

Actually, I believe it's the Tyranid codex. Maybe the SM codex?

So yeah, bad fan-faction.

When you are fighting Tyranids, you don't need to aim and one bolt round could penetrate a gaunt and then hit another.


a Space marine typically carries 4-5 Magazines. each mag holds between 20-30 rounds if it's the standard sickle mag.


the Models we have are not proper scale. the hands and weapons are too large for the body.

the Ammo bags that all the models come with would be capable of holding several extra mags.



Stormbolter Drum mags hold 40-60 rounds. terminators can carry spare mags. Grey Knight models actually have spare mags clipped to their belts.


in a drawn out battle, Chapter serfs would be tasked with resupplying marines with more ammo. this actually happens in Brothers of the Snake by Abnett. the Marines are fighting Orks with Bolters and Sea Pikes. the marines use their bolters until they are out of ammo and pick up their Pikes until they get more ammo from the serfs.

Thankyou, chapter serfs is the answer. I'm unsure how marines in TDA armed with a power fist could reload anyway as the fist would make it difficult to handle the magazine. I assume they could also have some sort of auto-loader built into the armour so they eject the spent magazine, the auto-loader preps the fresh one and the marine jams the stormbolter over it to click it into place. Prolonged battles would require someone like a serf or servitor with access to a large supply of ammo to pass the fresh ammo to the marines.
They have the skill to make the whole scene look like some juggling act as magazines are thrown at the marines and they catch them mid-air using the stormbolters, clicking them into place at the same time


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Stories from mediaeval times might suggest that a lone knight went out to fight the evil count but then you realise that the knight is the only one thought to be worth mentioning and he actually has several others with him such as servants and armed retainers.

Power Fists are still capable of manipulating delicate things.


Marneus Calgar is drinks some Wine out of a Crystal Glass in the Ultramarine omnibus while wearing his pimp fists.

On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?

To answer that topic, we need to attempt to apply a few real world concepts to this peice of fluff.

Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.

Secondly, a squad learns how to fight as a cohesive unit, including how to stagger shooting and reloads so that at no point is the whole squad out of ammo. This is achieved by simple communication. One warrior shouting "Reloading!" is ample enough wordage to communicate to his comrades that they should increase their volumes of fire to compensate for the momentary loss in firepower while he changes his magazine. The more a unit fights together, the better at this they become. They learn their shooting habits of their fellows, and thus are able to stagger their reloads much more precisely. Terminators are extremely professional and experienced warriors who spend vast amounts of time training or fighting alongside their battle brothers. There is no reason to doubt the fact that they are as cohesive as is possible.

Thirdly, like the vast majority of ballistic small arms, we can assume that Storm Bolters need to have their firing mechanisms manually charged in some form or another to initiate firing. And like the vast majority of box magazine fed small arms, if the magazine is reloaded while the final bullet from the previous magazine is still in the chamber, the weapon will not have to be manually charged again after reloading. It can simply keep firing. This can save precious seconds in a firefight. In order to facilitate this, one needs to know how many rounds are left in his weapon. Thus, one needs to be familiar enough with his weapon to accurately "count bullets" or have some alternative method of knowing his ammunition supply, (like an ammo counter on a HUD). Terminators assuredly have both.

Finally, muscle memory is a huge contributing factor in weapon reload speed. In order to reload smoothly, with no fumbling or failing, one needs to practice reloading the same weapon system many, many times. In the 6-ish years I've operated the M4 carbine and dimensionally equivalent replicas, I've gained the ability to do just that. Surely an individual that has had decades, if not centuries, to practice that, can reload flawlessly.

A wordy answer to a simple question, bu there it is nonetheless.

Totally agree.


if a human can learn to reload a gun in a second or less over a few years, imagine how fast a Super Human, who has had centuries of getting to know his weapon and it's innermost secrets, can reload.

Didn't they put the "Terminators carry no extra ammo!" thing to rest awhile ago, stating that the magazines have magnetic clips to attach them to the armor?

Power Armor, and assumedly TDA, has Magnetic sections along the Thighs where marines can clamp metal objects. normally they stick their bolters there when they need both hands, but Mags would work too.

Terminators have other weapons than stormbolters - a heavy flamer, assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher can surely empty a whole section of the room? That should buy time to reload too.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:What book are you referencing exactly?

As far as I knew, the only established fluff involving the First Company of the Ultramarines during the Battle for Macragge was that they defended the polar fortresses of the world, retreating step by step, and making the Tyranids pay with blood for every step they took back.

They all ended up dead in the end of it, but the Tyranids were as well.

Index Astartes III, Defenders of Ultramar, page 53 - "The Lament of the First"


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Commander Endova wrote:

On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?

To answer that topic, we need to attempt to apply a few real world concepts to this peice of fluff.

Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.

Secondly, a squad learns how to fight as a cohesive unit, including how to stagger shooting and reloads so that at no point is the whole squad out of ammo. This is achieved by simple communication. One warrior shouting "Reloading!" is ample enough wordage to communicate to his comrades that they should increase their volumes of fire to compensate for the momentary loss in firepower while he changes his magazine. The more a unit fights together, the better at this they become. They learn their shooting habits of their fellows, and thus are able to stagger their reloads much more precisely. Terminators are extremely professional and experienced warriors who spend vast amounts of time training or fighting alongside their battle brothers. There is no reason to doubt the fact that they are as cohesive as is possible.

Thirdly, like the vast majority of ballistic small arms, we can assume that Storm Bolters need to have their firing mechanisms manually charged in some form or another to initiate firing. And like the vast majority of box magazine fed small arms, if the magazine is reloaded while the final bullet from the previous magazine is still in the chamber, the weapon will not have to be manually charged again after reloading. It can simply keep firing. This can save precious seconds in a firefight. In order to facilitate this, one needs to know how many rounds are left in his weapon. Thus, one needs to be familiar enough with his weapon to accurately "count bullets" or have some alternative method of knowing his ammunition supply, (like an ammo counter on a HUD). Terminators assuredly have both.

Finally, muscle memory is a huge contributing factor in weapon reload speed. In order to reload smoothly, with no fumbling or failing, one needs to practice reloading the same weapon system many, many times. In the 6-ish years I've operated the M4 carbine and dimensionally equivalent replicas, I've gained the ability to do just that. Surely an individual that has had decades, if not centuries, to practice that, can reload flawlessly.

A wordy answer to a simple question, bu there it is nonetheless.

I agree. Thank you for answering this.

This only leaves one question: how many bullets they carry? If they where able to shoot for 6 hours in never ending horde of aliens how many bullets have they spent?

read the ultramarines omnibus or the spacewolf omnibus all will be reavelled

In Dow II the Space Marines reload their bolters, quite frequently infact. Admittedly they do just pull a mag out of thin air/out of their stomach, but in DoW they do reload

Brother Coa wrote:
This only leaves one question: how many bullets they carry? If they where able to shoot for 6 hours in never ending horde of aliens how many bullets have they spent?

Terminators can probably only carry 3-4 extra mags plus the loaded Stormbolter. so 160-250 rounds.



the Ultramarine terminators would doubtless have had Serfs with them bringing more ammo during the battle.

Grey Templar wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
This only leaves one question: how many bullets they carry? If they where able to shoot for 6 hours in never ending horde of aliens how many bullets have they spent?

Terminators can probably only carry 3-4 extra mags plus the loaded Stormbolter. so 160-250 rounds.



the Ultramarine terminators would doubtless have had Serfs with them bringing more ammo during the battle.

Gotta remember this was on macragge, ammo would have been pretty plentiful in the Ultra's own base. They'd probably run out of people to bring it to them before running out of ammo itself.

VikingScott wrote:Gotta remember this was on macragge, ammo would have been pretty plentiful in the Ultra's own base. They'd probably run out of people to bring it to them before running out of ammo itself.

Which is probably what was happening now that you mention it. The story in the SM codex says the defenders on the walls had guns overheating despite the arctic cold, and ammo running low despite fighting amidst stockpiles for monts of siege. Tyranids reportedly got in once there was enough dead bodies to reach the battlements walking... Then fighting in the fortress, and the remaining forces making a last stand in a supply dump. Serfs keep reloading empty magazines as many times as they can while the terminators keep firing into an endless horde of creatures. That's how you manage to fill the room with enemy dead six deep before being overrun.

Yes, six deep - the Codex didn't say anything about time though.

Grey Templar wrote:Power Fists are still capable of manipulating delicate things.


Marneus Calgar is drinks some Wine out of a Crystal Glass in the Ultramarine omnibus while wearing his pimp fists.

But it is also said that the gauntlets of Ultramar are extraordinary pieces of craftsmanship. I doubt many other power fists would be capable of such precision. I suppose the power fist of a sergeant or a marine will simply be utilitarian. It would be strong, it would kick asses, it would be reliable, but it would not be made to pick up flowers each spring. On the other hand, SM captains and other officers would probably want a fancy, shiny power fist that allow them to hold small, tiny objects.

Back on topic, I guess a termy suit could carry a good amount of drum mags for the storm bolter. Maybe 4-5 mags? Maybe even 6? That would make 240-360 bolter rounds.

None, because Space Marines don't carry bullets, they carry bolter shells.

Regardless, I don't imagine they're going to carry more than three magazines (not clips, there are no known Boltgun patterns which use clips) at any given time except on the longest of campaigns. Probably should check with the Deathwatch rulebook on that.

Melissia wrote:None, because Space Marines don't carry bullets, they carry bolter shells.

picky picky



marines certaintly wouldn't carry more then 5, but 3 is too few methinks.

That's eighty to one twenty shots (including the magazine in the gun), more than enough for a brief engagement. Those stories about a single Marine taking down hundreds of enemies while waiting for backup are the exception rather than the norm, they want to end the battles ASAP as that is their greatest strength.

Brother Coa wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Yep, that's precisely what I'm telling you. I think you underestimate a Terminator's chances in combat. Genestealers may be able to tear Terminator Armour, but that takes effort and time. In a one-on-one fight, Terminators have the edge - they are better protected, harder hitting and more capable of doing damage. All they would have to do was occupy chokepoints in the fortress and they could in theory hold out for a very long time.

And you underestimate the situation here.
1- Fight was not one on one but 1000 to one at the same time.
2- They did not ocupy any checkpoints, it says in the book that all 6 of them where standing in the middle of the room like one in the "Ultramarines" movie where they fought daemon in the end.
3- Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.

In the end only sergeant was alive, and he was still able to kill Carnifex before he died. And I do not underestimate Terminator armor, but Genestealer are a Genestealer and Tyranids are Tyranids. And if you don't know - Genestealer can break trough TA instantly and kill the Marine wearing it. Just see the space hulk situation.

On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?

This book being the Codex, presumably?
If they were SHOOTING the whole time then it's poor fluff. As someone above us pointed out, that kind of fight is just not possible with Tyranids - sooner or later they're going to get into combat. Furthermore, i am using 40K for my comparison of a Terminator vs. a Genestealer, not Space Hulk, and in 40K the Terminator has the edge. Remember, the Stealer has only a 1/6 chance to ignore the Termies' armour save, and a 1/6 chance that it's attack will succeed in bringing the big lad down if they manage to hit and wound without rending. I fail to see how that's me being ignorant of unit abilities, though if you have good examples, then that's cool, I'll listen to them.

They carry 200-300 rounds, but yeah, they should carry more considering they often end up in non-stop 7 day battles.

Maybe they keep spare mags somewhere in they drop pods? That way, once the first encounter with the ennemy is over, they get back to their pod, get some fresh mags, and prepare for the next round.

Commander Endova wrote:

On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?

To answer that topic, we need to attempt to apply a few real world concepts to this peice of fluff.

Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.

Secondly, a squad learns how to fight as a cohesive unit, including how to stagger shooting and reloads so that at no point is the whole squad out of ammo. This is achieved by simple communication. One warrior shouting "Reloading!" is ample enough wordage to communicate to his comrades that they should increase their volumes of fire to compensate for the momentary loss in firepower while he changes his magazine. The more a unit fights together, the better at this they become. They learn their shooting habits of their fellows, and thus are able to stagger their reloads much more precisely. Terminators are extremely professional and experienced warriors who spend vast amounts of time training or fighting alongside their battle brothers. There is no reason to doubt the fact that they are as cohesive as is possible.

Thirdly, like the vast majority of ballistic small arms, we can assume that Storm Bolters need to have their firing mechanisms manually charged in some form or another to initiate firing. And like the vast majority of box magazine fed small arms, if the magazine is reloaded while the final bullet from the previous magazine is still in the chamber, the weapon will not have to be manually charged again after reloading. It can simply keep firing. This can save precious seconds in a firefight. In order to facilitate this, one needs to know how many rounds are left in his weapon. Thus, one needs to be familiar enough with his weapon to accurately "count bullets" or have some alternative method of knowing his ammunition supply, (like an ammo counter on a HUD). Terminators assuredly have both.

Finally, muscle memory is a huge contributing factor in weapon reload speed. In order to reload smoothly, with no fumbling or failing, one needs to practice reloading the same weapon system many, many times. In the 6-ish years I've operated the M4 carbine and dimensionally equivalent replicas, I've gained the ability to do just that. Surely an individual that has had decades, if not centuries, to practice that, can reload flawlessly.

A wordy answer to a simple question, bu there it is nonetheless.

This in effect is my post without me having to say it!
muscle memory is pretty much what you go back to when your busy thinking about other things!
to throw a real spanner in the works here we mustn't forget that a bolter is effectively an 18mm weapon, its been stated time and again they're around .72 calibre which is for want of a mm or two almost a 20mm round in fact. you cannot carry many of them at all on your person i'll guarentee that.
however, we then have to take into account how big a marine is 3m? so a magazine a marine carries could easily hold 30-40 20mm rounds
standard load for most armed forces is 6 magazines so we'll assume to begin with that they're carrying somwhere between 180 to 240 rounds.
add another 60-80 for the ones already combat loaded into the weapon.
after that they're pretty much stripping them from dead comrades.
after that they're throwing empty brass.
Pete

Laodamia wrote:Maybe they keep spare mags somewhere in they drop pods? That way, once the first encounter with the ennemy is over, they get back to their pod, get some fresh mags, and prepare for the next round.

sure, why not.

the Terminators on Maccragge were sitting on a chapter stockpile that has been sitting there for 10k years.

they practically had an unlimited supply of ammo and were only limited by the speed of reloading and how fast Chapter serfs chould bring them more.



we also have to realize that real 40k and game 40k arn't exactly the same thing. in fluff, a genestealer doesn't have a 1/6 chance of rending and killing a terminator. it's probably closer to 1/36 chance of a rend and the Terminator still has a 1/3 chance of surviving even that.


it wasn't just Genestealers hitting the terminators, in fact there might not have been any because Genestealers are a vanguard bioform. not an assault bioform.

it was Termi and Hormagants backed up by Carnifexs that would have assaulted the 1st. Gaunts wouldn't stand a chance againmst ranks and ranks of Bolter fire and only Carnifex's would get through and be a real threat. and then you have Assault terminators for these guys.



the regular terminators would pour fire into the advancing nids. when the nids reached the lines, the Assault terminators would step forward to engage while the Tac termies retreated to the next firing line.

An average Marine is about nine to ten feet including the power armor, IIRC. Could be wrong here.

Keep in mind that the weapons on the models are exaggerated for heroic scale.


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Grey Templar wrote:the regular terminators would pour fire into the advancing nids. when the nids reached the lines, the Assault terminators would step forward to engage while the Tac termies retreated to the next firing line.

I agree with this. If Marines had unlimited ammo, this would be the ideal tactics for a group of terminators, especially if they were guarding a hill, multiple levels of a fortress, or a mountain and retreating upwards towards the center allowing the tactical terminators to fire over the heads of their assault brethren into the encoming horde.

it's more like 8-9 feet.

terminator armor adds a couple feet, in both directions


a marine out of power armor is more like 7-8 feet(depending on the individual marine)

Merely seven to eight? The average catachan is that tall, so I hardly think eight feet is the upper limit of the average Marine.

Grey Templar wrote:the Terminators on Maccragge were sitting on a chapter stockpile that has been sitting there for 10k years.

they practically had an unlimited supply of ammo and were only limited by the speed of reloading and how fast Chapter serfs chould bring them more.



we also have to realize that real 40k and game 40k arn't exactly the same thing. in fluff, a genestealer doesn't have a 1/6 chance of rending and killing a terminator. it's probably closer to 1/36 chance of a rend and the Terminator still has a 1/3 chance of surviving even that.


it wasn't just Genestealers hitting the terminators, in fact there might not have been any because Genestealers are a vanguard bioform. not an assault bioform.

it was Termi and Hormagants backed up by Carnifexs that would have assaulted the 1st. Gaunts wouldn't stand a chance againmst ranks and ranks of Bolter fire and only Carnifex's would get through and be a real threat. and then you have Assault terminators for these guys.



the regular terminators would pour fire into the advancing nids. when the nids reached the lines, the Assault terminators would step forward to engage while the Tac termies retreated to the next firing line.

This, essentially.
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to convey my thoughts quite as concisely. Oh well.

Melissia wrote:Merely seven to eight? The average catachan is that tall, so I hardly think eight feet is the upper limit of the average Marine.

Actually, the average Catachan is shorter than the average Imperial. They're known for stockyness. Before you ask: Death World. I would say the average Catachan is below 6 feet.

Melissia wrote:Merely seven to eight? The average catachan is that tall, so I hardly think eight feet is the upper limit of the average Marine.

Not so, I'm sure the average Catachan is no taller than 6ft 6in. Could be wrong there, but I'm sure they aren't much taller than that, I'm sure. Marines are about 8-9ft in their armour, as I recall.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Melissia wrote:Merely seven to eight? The average catachan is that tall, so I hardly think eight feet is the upper limit of the average Marine.

Not so, I'm sure the average Catachan is no taller than 6ft 6in. Could be wrong there, but I'm sure they aren't much taller than that, I'm sure. Marines are about 8-9ft in their armour, as I recall.

I very much recall in the Cain books that Cain, who was taller than the average Imperial (described as physically standing out in a crowd of the common Imperial citizen), was himself dwarfed by the average Catachan soldier he ran across in the third book.

Melissia wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

Melissia wrote:Merely seven to eight? The average catachan is that tall, so I hardly think eight feet is the upper limit of the average Marine.

Not so, I'm sure the average Catachan is no taller than 6ft 6in. Could be wrong there, but I'm sure they aren't much taller than that, I'm sure. Marines are about 8-9ft in their armour, as I recall.

I very much recall in the Cain books that Cain, who was taller than the average Imperial (described as physically standing out in a crowd of the common Imperial citizen), was himself dwarfed by the average Catachan soldier he ran across in the third book.

I don't doubt there's a blantant contradiction and I don't doubt that book is better (Death World is bad do not read) but I'm still gonna go with Death World. It's about Catachans and I think Cain books are purposefully unreliable.

Cain's about 2 metres tall, isn't he?
In that case, two conclusions/theories:
The catachans are bigger than 6ft 6in, (about 2 metres)
or that was a particularly large catachan.
Are you sure that was an average catachan?

I know that bringing logic to 40K is -almost- Heresy, but with the gravity issue from Catachan, it'd be logical if they where 150 to 160cm tall as average, depending on genetics, feeding and enviromental factors, a normal citizen would go from 170 to 190cm tall (of course, that doesn't leaves taller or shorter out).

I always imagined Space Marines to be around 240cm tall, that'd be from 1.5 to 2 heads taller than your average citizen, add sheer altered muscle mass, then the power armour and you have the great soldiers that are described in books and images.

for the record, there are Imperial Worlds where the Humans approach the Height of an Astartes.

the Carolingens(a Warrior Materiarchel society that comes up in the Ravenor and Eisenhorn omnibuses) are known to be the height of Space Marines. and thats just the women.



it isn't the height of a Space marine thats notable, it's more about the bulk combined with the height. you see a 6 and a half foot man and he looks really tall. if you add muscles to match the height he looks even taller.

In Inquisitor, Artemis only carries two reloads for his boltgun. In Deathwatch backpack ammo is said to hold up to two hundred and fifty rounds for a bolt weapon and two magazines for a Godwyn pattern bolter would mean fifty-six rounds. It seems feasible to imagine that a Space Marine could carry up to half a dozen spare magazines.

Commander Endova wrote:Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.

When you're fighting off a WAVE of attackers, firing in a continuous stream probably wasn't a bad idea. In WWI this tactic was pretty efficient at taking down the enemy.

A few enemies and limited ammunition, fire in bursts to maximize carnage.

Waves of enemies and essentially unlimited ammunition (Macragge), you don't let your finger off the trigger until the barrel warps.

edit: Given that SM backpacks are almost unlimited power, why wouldn't the SM use a souped-up lasgun? Power seems to be virtually unlimited in the 40k-verse, so this would seem to make the most sense.

Gogsnik wrote:

In Inquisitor, Artemis only carries two reloads for his boltgun. In Deathwatch backpack ammo is said to hold up to two hundred and fifty rounds for a bolt weapon and two magazines for a Godwyn pattern bolter would mean fifty-six rounds. It seems feasible to imagine that a Space Marine could carry up to half a dozen spare magazines.

So they're around 7.8 feet tall? That's 238cm rounding up, my guesses wheren't wrong then.

biccat wrote:

Commander Endova wrote:Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.

When you're fighting off a WAVE of attackers, firing in a continuous stream probably wasn't a bad idea. In WWI this tactic was pretty efficient at taking down the enemy.

A few enemies and limited ammunition, fire in bursts to maximize carnage.

Waves of enemies and essentially unlimited ammunition (Macragge), you don't let your finger off the trigger until the barrel warps.

If we're talking about overall ammunition available, then yes. Of course you are correct. However, in the post you quoted, I go on to talk about a squad being able to maintain fire as a unit. If every member of the squad pulled the their trigger at the same time, and shot until they were empty, then they'd all be reloading at the same time, which wouldn't be good in that situation. Unlimited ammunition on hand =/= unlimited ammunition in magazine.

Furthermore, remember that Space Marines have reflexes greatly superior to our own, and that Storm Bolters have a blistering rate of fire. I'd imagine the process of acquiring a target, aiming, shooting and acquiring the next target is performed in the blink of an eye by a Terminator. This process takes considerably longer for a human.

And you bring up another point. Barrel warpage. In a protracted firefight against a numerically superior enemy, you can't risk it. I'm sure Terminators are far more familiar with the cooling system of a Storm Bolter than any of us are. I'm sure they fired at a sustainable rate to prevent their weapons from failing.

Dark wrote:So they're around 7.8 feet tall? That's 238cm rounding up, my guesses wheren't wrong then.

You'll note however that the scale starts at 1 foot. Space Marines are reckoned to stand between seven and eight feet on average and Space Marine Power Armour doesn't really add much to their overall height, several inches and even with terminator armour, the height increase is superficial as much of that is obviously the cowling above the Marine's head but between seven and eight feet is the average.

Well, yeah.

the Terminator armor's bulk in the shoulder area makes them alot taller.

Commander Endova wrote:
Furthermore, remember that Space Marines have reflexes greatly superior to our own, and that Storm Bolters have a blistering rate of fire. I'd imagine the process of acquiring a target, aiming, shooting and acquiring the next target is performed in the blink of an eye by a Terminator. This process takes considerably longer for a human.

So the point is that they reload in a eye blink? And we never see it because of this speed?

Damn you GW and your universal rules.

No. I think an individual Space Marine reloading could take a couple seconds. The process I described is more concerned with shooting. He can choose a target, terminate it, and choose another target in fractions of a second.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Cain's about 2 metres tall, isn't he?
In that case, two conclusions/theories:
The catachans are bigger than 6ft 6in, (about 2 metres)
or that was a particularly large catachan.
Are you sure that was an average catachan?

IIRC yes, he got sucked out an airlock though and was the only one directly mentioned in the book (he had mentioned that he spent time sparring catachans though I think? I'd have to open the book again and I don't have time this morning).

Grey Templar wrote:Power Fists are still capable of manipulating delicate things.


Marneus Calgar is drinks some Wine out of a Crystal Glass in the Ultramarine omnibus while wearing his pimp fists.

A big difference between holding something and manipulating a small object that probably has clips on it. I can hold the smallest model bit quite easily but tweezers are sometimes needed when trying to place the same item in a specific place as my fingertips are too big for the workspace at times.

Now if you'd said he'd shuffled a pack of cards I'd have thought wow, they can do pretty much anything with those on, as it stands I wouldn't want to pick my nose with a PF finger.

On eof the scouts on the land speeder storm is reloading his bolter

cadbren wrote:
Now if you'd said he'd shuffled a pack of cards I'd have thought wow, they can do pretty much anything with those on, as it stands I wouldn't want to pick my nose with a PF finger.

haha!

Now I have the image of Calgar trying to pick his nose with his PF in my head!

You made my day.

Also lol, no. Marine power armor reduces the Marine's manual dexterity when ti comes to fine manipulation (source: Deathwatch RPG). Power Fists are even more clumsy.

Here is one more question, now for the IG. How many shots can one Guardsman fire from his Lasgun?
I reckon if they are in sunlight, and Lasgun is recharging on sunlight, he don't even have to reload it.

Well the lasgun has different power settings; weaker settings using less energy wich means more shots, stronger settings using more. Im not sure a clip can recharge in the gun however due to it being partly inside the weapon and probably being set to fire, not recharge. Although im not sure what a lasguun looks like specifically and if the part that recharges it is outside of the weapon when loaded in.

I've not read a lot of 40k books i the line "he slapped a fresh magazine into his bolter" (or equivilant) does ring a couple of bells.

It's power armour, surely with all their amazing tech, they can have a couple of pockets?

at a lasgun's reccomended power settings(the one Guardsmen are supposed to fire them at) the weapon can put out about 500 rounds per power pack.

at full power about 20.



most standard issue lasguns arn't even able to fire at full power(the switches are removed to put it up that high)




Guardsmen are required to be able to have the capacity to fire 2000 rounds at all times. they have 5 power packs to do it with(1 in the gun, 4 on the belt)

That's about right. Guardsmen are expected to fire a lot, because filling the air with a lot of little bits of hot death (be it bullets or lasers) is an effective strategy if you have a proper supply line. The Guard does.

In Inquisitor a Mars Pattern lasgun has sixty shots and in Dark Heresy a lasgun also has sixty shots per power pack. The [i]Munitorum Manual[/] states that a typical power pack should provide up to one hundred and fifty shots.

Right. But keep in mind that in Inquisitor and Dark Heresy, the weapon has to be balanced against autoguns to keep the latter useful. A couple hundred shots is about what it is in most fluff sources.

Dark Heresy also has lasguns unable to go into full auto mode.

There are many, many marks of Lasguns but I would say the average is about 45 shots.

Additionally the Third Edition Rulebook states a capacity of forty shots per power pack and the slightly more powerful Krieg lasgun has only twenty-five shots per power pack as stated in Imperial Armour V

That's very much out of date though. I haven't read any recent fluff that puts it below sixty except on special high-powered patterns of lasgun.

Melissia wrote:That's very much out of date though.

Can we make our comments somewhat more useful and less like this please when debating. ta.

Like he said IA isn't very old and it states Kriegers only have 25 shots per clip. And 40 shots isn't out of date its just a different pattern. There's literally got to be about 10,000 patterns of Lasguns. There's even at least 5 different types of standard power packs.

I'm surprised no one has mention the space marines that come in Assault on black reach. They have a average of 2-3 ammo packs on them. I could also assume that they don't just constantly fire like a lot of media depicts. I figured they would treat a weapon like that how we use the automatic grenade launchers in real life and that's short 3-4 round burst.

Bolt Guns don't fire bullets, they fire bolts.

Pedantry aside, I like to imagine that Bolters have an internal ammunition reserve so that they can be fired while the external magazine is being swapped out. Essentially the magazines just top-up the internal ammunition storage. Hence the bolter-drill that enabled 2nd edition Marines to fire twice if they didn't move, and that lets them add another die if Lysander is available is essentially a drill that Space Marines can do to swap out an empty external magazine. Why Space Marines? Because as Astartes they're physically able to hold a bolter steady enough to fire as they reload.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Like he said IA isn't very old and it states Kriegers only have 25 shots per clip.

Yes, which is a Krieg thing. Kriegers use what basically amount to Karabiner 98ks in lasgun form anyway.

My point, possibly poorly worded, was that it wasn't the norm . The norm would be stated in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer.

Off Topic, but Elysian pattern is good for 50 shots but does not have a rapid fire option due to being expected to be cut off from supply lines.

in the Fluff, the DKoK uses a more powerful lasgun. hence lowering the number of rounds each pack holds.


the standard issue lasgun(meaning 90% of the different marks) fires around 500 rounds per pack.

Keep in mind that, on full-auto, they can empty it in less then a minute. usually on full-auto they reduce the power to get more rounds.



I belive the Elysians also carry more equipment then the standard guardsmen. probably 8-10 power packs to compensate for the lower ammo per pack.

Grey Templar wrote:in the Fluff, the DKoK uses a more powerful lasgun. hence lowering the number of rounds each pack holds.


the standard issue lasgun(meaning 90% of the different marks) fires around 500 rounds per pack.

Keep in mind that, on full-auto, they can empty it in less then a minute. usually on full-auto they reduce the power to get more rounds.



I belive the Elysians also carry more equipment then the standard guardsmen. probably 8-10 power packs to compensate for the lower ammo per pack.

I don't know where you're getting this 500 round number from. A Hellgun Backpack powerpack has only 200 rounds. Elysians have one of the longest lived packs and its only 50. There's no way you can get 500 rounds from a standard clip.

Guardsmen are required to have 2000 rounds avaliable at all times.

The Uplifting primer says that Guardsmen get 4 power packs.

2000/4 = 500

Grey Templar wrote:Guardsmen are required to have 2000 rounds avaliable at all times.

The Uplifting primer says that Guardsmen get 4 power packs.

2000/4 = 500

Well I haven't read that but I've read a lot of other stuff and I think 70 rounds is the absolute max. Unless a lasgun has a setting you can trim your beard with. That one you might be able to use 500 times but probably not even then.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Guardsmen are required to have 2000 rounds avaliable at all times.

The Uplifting primer says that Guardsmen get 4 power packs.

2000/4 = 500

Well I haven't read that but I've read a lot of other stuff and I think 70 rounds is the absolute max.

Why? The Primer says otherwise.

You really should go read the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, it's a great book and has lots of stealthy humor.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Guardsmen are required to have 2000 rounds avaliable at all times.

The Uplifting primer says that Guardsmen get 4 power packs.

2000/4 = 500

Well I haven't read that but I've read a lot of other stuff and I think 70 rounds is the absolute max.

Why? The Primer says otherwise.

You really should go read the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, it's a great book and has lots of stealthy humor.

It also says Tau use clubs and wear animal firs. Maybe that number is also part of the humour. You're supposed to have 2000 rounds on you at all times but the munitorium only supply you with 200.

Grey Templar wrote:Guardsmen are required to have 2000 rounds avaliable at all times.

What is the source of this?

Irregardless, the Munitorum Manual clearly states that a power pack typically should hold up to one hundred and fifty shots if used conservatively. The M-G pattern lasgun (the pattern shown in the Uplifting Primer) carries only forty shots.

Gogsnik wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Guardsmen are required to have 2000 rounds avaliable at all times.

What is the source of this?

Irregardless, the Munitorum Manual clearly states that a power pack typically should hold up to one hundred and fifty shots if used conservatively. The M-G pattern lasgun (the pattern shown in the Uplifting Primer) carries only forty shots.

Munitoium Manual? There's an actual one?

I guess I'm getting the Uplifting Primer confused with The Munitorium Manual. What's the difference? Is the Munitorium one just very weapon focused?

It's very much the same thing but with focus on a Guardsman's responsibilities from an administrative angle but it's just a reworked Uplifting Primer to all intents and purposes.

I'm sure that's how the Guardsmen feel too.

Praxiss wrote:I've not read a lot of 40k books i the line "he slapped a fresh magazine into his bolter" (or equivilant) does ring a couple of bells.

It's power armour, surely with all their amazing tech, they can have a couple of pockets?

And fine motor skills even with a power fist, turned off... I recall reading a short piece of fiction in a WD ages back, a terminator squad waiting to teleport into battle and the chaplain giving them final words meantime. Everyone does their usual rituals - saluting the standards, mumbling a prayer and so on. One of the brothers does his usual move of pointing his empty and unloaded stormbolter at a chapter symbol on a wall and pulling the trigger, then loading a magazine and readying the weapon. The chaplain, as always, considers this slightly suspect but can't deny it seems to bring luck in battle and so lets it pass.

I've not read the referenced story so I need to pose a question. Does it actually state that they were engaged in direct action for 6 hours straight? Keep in mind that they were defending a fortress and would probably have had automated defenses, heavy doors that could be sealed off etc. This would give them plenty of time to reload their magazines, and set up a new defensive position.

In terms of how much ammunition a typical marine carries it seems logical to assume four to five magazines for an average mission, like others have said. The marines also likely store extra ammunition in whatever mode of conveyance they took to the fight in the first place. A Thunderhawk or Rhino could probably hold a large stockpile of extra ammunition, barrels, etc. just in case the mission went longer than expected.

It's worth mentioning that the Uplifting Primer is a satyrical work...

Yes, but the weapon info is accurate.


the Imperium doesn't overplay it's tech. it downplays Xeno tech by calling it inferior.

Guardsmen arn't lied to about the abilities of their weapons. only in the abilities of the enemy.

Brother Coa wrote:I know for a fact that IG do not need secundary pack because their Lasgun can recharge on sunlight

Actually, in the fluff, they carry extra ammunition, and run out pretty consistently. While the cell can charge on sunlight, I assume this process takes a while and is not useful in a firefight.

I'd have to agree on the serf theory, who bring them ammo. If you look at any pitched battle scene with Space Marines, you'll see all kinds of servo-skulls and hooded indivuduals. The Space Marine Codex has a great example.

Gavo wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I know for a fact that IG do not need secundary pack because their Lasgun can recharge on sunlight

Actually, in the fluff, they carry extra ammunition, and run out pretty consistently. While the cell can charge on sunlight, I assume this process takes a while and is not useful in a firefight.

I also downloaded the book and read that they even have cell battery to replenish las shots.
That means that in a heat of battle, go to Leman Russ, attach your magazine to the Tank battery and after few minutes you have fully charged magazines for Lasgun


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Goddard wrote:I'd have to agree on the serf theory, who bring them ammo. If you look at any pitched battle scene with Space Marines, you'll see all kinds of servo-skulls and hooded indivuduals. The Space Marine Codex has a great example.

But in story clearly states that they where shotting the whole time, in a middle of the great ceremonial room, surrounded by dead and alive Tyranids, with no fresh ammo and no help. Just handful of them for 6 hours. This must be quite unrealistic, even for the veterans of the 1'st company.

We must also separate heroic stories from what actually happened.

I think we all know what happened in the end. Poor souls.. :(
They had stand heroic for 6 hours, but there is no way that they have shoot for that long.

I'm sure they have some on their belts.

Brother Coa wrote:

Gavo wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I know for a fact that IG do not need secundary pack because their Lasgun can recharge on sunlight

Actually, in the fluff, they carry extra ammunition, and run out pretty consistently. While the cell can charge on sunlight, I assume this process takes a while and is not useful in a firefight.

I also downloaded the book and read that they even have cell battery to replenish las shots.
That means that in a heat of battle, go to Leman Russ, attach your magazine to the Tank battery and after few minutes you have fully charged magazines for Lasgun

Not in the heat of battle. It's done afterwards, it takes a while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Coa wrote:

But in story clearly states that they where shotting the whole time, in a middle of the great ceremonial room, surrounded by dead and alive Tyranids, with no fresh ammo and no help. Just handful of them for 6 hours. This must be quite unrealistic, even for the veterans of the 1'st company.

If you're talking about the Battle of Maccrage Imperial Guardsmen were also present in that battle.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
If you're talking about the Battle of Maccrage Imperial Guardsmen were also present in that battle.

Not in the last stand of the 1'st company's surviving Terminators in the grand hall of the northern fortress. The story said only 6 Terminators reach the hall before they started their last stand.

What's this story in?

The IG were only bombing macragge with their basilisk batteries, they didn't participate with the actual battles.

There weren't any IG on Maccragge,


there was the Maccragge PDF which is better then most of the IG.

@Tmonster: Basilisks are ground based artillery. when the Nids attack a planet, there is no such area as a non-combat zone.

the PDF was certaintly engagged.


@Kamikaze: the story is in the Space marine codex.

There was Maggrage PDF at the polar ice cap battle is what I'm saying.
Not sure what the big mystery is here. "Where did they get ammo?" How about the giant Military base they were defending.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There was Maggrage PDF at the polar ice cap battle is what I'm saying.
Not sure what the big mystery is here. "Where did they get ammo?" How about the giant Military base they were defending.

As I said, only 6 of them where left, in giant hall full with Tyranids and they where fighting for 6 HOURS. And the story said that they where shooting the whole time and they fall only when they left without bullets. And if the story is true, there is no way that they could get enough ammunition to kill all of them + they where surrounded in a giant room with no secondary ammunition - so no ammo crates all around them.
That's the mystery.

Brother Coa wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:There was Maggrage PDF at the polar ice cap battle is what I'm saying.
Not sure what the big mystery is here. "Where did they get ammo?" How about the giant Military base they were defending.

As I said, only 6 of them where left, in giant hall full with Tyranids and they where fighting for 6 HOURS. And the story said that they where shooting the whole time and they fall only when they left without bullets. And if the story is true, there is no way that they could get enough ammunition to kill all of them + they where surrounded in a giant room with no secondary ammunition - so no ammo crates all around them.
That's the mystery.

I'm not familiar with the story of the last six but nonethless its pretty common to say and "they fought for six hours straight" rather than the more detailed "they fought for six hours straight and much retrieving of ammo and reloading happened as well" even in real life history books.

There was a basilisk battery unengaged in that specific planetfall..

I belive the 6 hours bit was the time from when last contact was had to when the rescue party came.

the actual battle lasted for a couple of days.

100 marines(in terminator armor) were defending the base against the swarm.



it wasn't that those 6 terminators held that last room for 6 hours. no one survived to say how long it was before they died.

Well, a suit of terminator armor is an integrated combat suit, id assume the reloads are inside the armor itself, and automatically reload as needed.

Theres about 40 cubic feet of open space inside those walking tanks lol, plenty of room to put a drum with a few thousand bolts.