So I've been doing these off and on for a while now and somehow I've never gotten around to doing the big one, the one that started it all, Rogue Trader.
Let's fix that now.
The year was 1987, when D&D still ruled the card tables in basements across this great land of ours, when these ads started popping up in Dragon Magazine (RIP).







The ads were filled with these hunch-backed beetle-armored warriors fighting Space Elfs and Space Orks and it seemed fun and full of action. The only problem, the rule book cost $50.
So I passed on it.

It wouldn't be till '93 when a friend showed me the Realms of Chaos books and another showed up with his collection of all 6 Epic armies that I started getting into GW. I finally picked up Rogue Trader at a discount just as 2nd edition was coming out and I've treasured my copy ever since.

I should point out this is not REALLY the beginning for 40k, apprently there were Citadel Journal and WD articles before 40k appeared, and it drew on some earlier games like GW's Judge Dredd RPG and Laserburn, unfortunatly I don't have access to any of those so if a friendly Dakkite could contribute a Retro Review of some of those materials I think we'd all be grateful.

Anyway on with the show.

Let's start with the cover, and what a cover it is.



Covered in action and details and with the apparent heroes (those hunch-backed beetle-armored fellows from the Dragon Magazine ads) being cut down by enemy fire. It was a daring departure from the look and feel of any other science fiction game out there. Not only was it set far beyond any 'future' I'd ever seen before but it combined elements of medieval fantasy, 'dirty futures' like in Aliens and Lovecraftian horror. Best of all there was not a single bit of spandex to be seen.

And that's just the cover!

Wait till you see page 1!



From the first page 40k sets a tone of despair and darkness no other science fiction game had. This introduction is still used in most books but with an added paragraph about how cool Space Marines are omitting those final words 'But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed…" I miss them. I was annoyed when, towards the end of 1st Edition and then from 2nd Edition on GW added the idea of 'special characters' who survive every battle and bestride the galaxy like giants. Yeah sure I understand the idea of reoccurring heroes and villains from a marketing perspective but it makes 40k a lot like other games, we've lost that feeling of 'you will not be missed' and I think it hurts the game.

The design also deserves some praise. At a time when the market leader TSR did not put any color inside the books and art was something separate from the text, GW really set a new standard with Rogue Trader. There's color pages throughout with art and minis. Even the charts are done in universe fashion with nihalistic thoughts for the day like "Death is the only answer' and the art is integrated with the text rather than peppered in randomly. The 1-2 paragraph fluff pieces are also there to set the tone even when the book is covering dry topics like turning radiuses for tanks. This is just a handsome book.



The next few pages establish the basic rules. The initial vision of 40k is muddled to say the least. It's meant to be played with a Game Master or Referee who sets up a scenario and then 2 or more players who bring forces to fight it. Point values are almost an afterthought, instead things are balanced D&D style by random charts (lots of random charts). Rather than try to create balanced forces GW instead gave everyone an even chance figuring things would equal out over time.

But even with that vastly different idea on how to play, even almost 25 years later some mechanics are remarkably the same as now.



Sure some things have been simplified, all models now have the same move, the psychological stats Intelligence, Cool and Will Power have all been combined into Leadership and, as 40k became more of a war game Saves were added as a stat but all in all a player today can recognize the stat line.



Turns have been simplified, we've lost things like the psychic phase (no great loss) but the basic "I go you go' mechanics are still there for better or for worse.



The rules are a lot more complicated than anything that has come before or since, a holdover from the days of realistic wargames (because nothing says realism like Space Marines fighting Orks in the Methane Swamps of Rynn's World) and chart-heavy games of the 70s and 80s.



Of course it's even funnier since many of the complex rules are not realistic, they ignore things like the fact a tank can wheel in place by moving its treads in different directions.



The vehicle damage chart is more complex than the one we have now but better than the 2nd edition (and late 1st edition) days when every vehicle had its own chart.



There's also not much restraint here. In one section they want to cover everything from tanks to bikes, to aircraft to robots.



Psychic powers are the next section. In keeping with 40k RPG roots they come in 4 levels and required spending (and tracking) each model's psi points. But again, GW's superior graphic design shines through with Munch-esque images next to each one.



Another 40k staple is mutants, even though GW cut them from 40k after3rd edition they're still very much a part of the game. As usual the art is both evocative and funny. Making this book must have been a hoot.





In this version (again keeping with the RPG-influenced design) mutations are determined by a random table, some are good, some are bad, others don't do much. Later this table would become a d1000 table in the Realms of Chaos books.



And just to clear something up, black skin was named as a mutation but as the text makes clear they mean ink-black skin, not African.



Finally the rules end with a point system. While points are central to modern 40k they were almost an after-thought in Rogue Trader. And the formula is just bizarre. You modify the stats and come up with a cost, then multiply it by a different number depending on how high it is.



Then add points for weapons and equipment.



That's about it for the rules. Although we can see the basics of the game engine here the simple fact is these rules really didn't work and didn't last too long. By the time the first supplement book (Chapter Approved) came out GW was already throwing out these point rules and moving to army lists. Within a few years they would replace the close assault and vehicle rules as well. And Space Marines would get a few extra rules because, y'know, Space Marines.



But hey, who plays 40k for the well-written rules anyway?
Join us again for Part II when we look at the early fluff of the 40k universe!

Great work! Thanks!!

wow you just made me all misty-eyed...I loved the RT days and still have those old orks to prove it

It just had STYLE! and a bit of a exotic, almost forbidden flavor to it compared with D & D and all of the others of the day.

Also those Marines were bad boys, with slogans like Kill Kill Kill on powerfists, and these were ultras

The thing about the TRR was that it reflected how fast you're going - a tank barrelling along at full speed can't turn on the spot, surely?

Nice Job! I've never used the RT Rules, but I still bring out my copy of RT and the Compendium and Compilation for a good read now and then. The advert that you show is particularly interesting.

"You won't need hundreds of models... just a dozen will do.."

Can't imagine those words coming out of GW now!

When folks talk about the clunkyness of the rules, I think they forget that it's really more of a Skirmish game with RPG roots/elements than a large scale wargame. The Random unit generation, Game master, and other RPG elements had really taken a back seat by the time the various suplements were released and it had taken on more of a wargame charachter with more organized army lists, point values and less need for a GM. It's a very interesting transitional product for GW.

One other issue, I believe that RT was the begining of 40k From GW as we know it. There are alot of similiarites and a shared designer for Laserburn, but it was by a different company. Judge Dredd and other GW games explored sci-fi, but as derritvative as 40k is, RT really put the elements together into something new.

This book is what brought me to the game, ironically after 2nd edition was out for a while.

It still has my favourite representation of Space Marines there.

They reworked the vehicle damage into something ludicrously complicated, where you had a picture of the vehicle and a grid to overlay, then you rolled dice and worked out which area you hit. There could be well over a dozen locations each with individual damage tables.

The current system is far too crude though, they should have found a middle ground.

Glad to see people like this, part II is coming but will have to wait a day or two till I have time.

Eilif wrote:

One other issue, I believe that RT was the begining of 40k From GW as we know it. There are alot of similiarites and a shared designer for Laserburn, but it was by a different company. Judge Dredd and other GW games explored sci-fi, but as derritvative as 40k is, RT really put the elements together into something new.

I've heard a lot about some of 40k's antecents like Laserburn, the Judge Dredd RPG (some of the supplements were also branded for 40k) and apparently there were some Citadel Journal or WD articles but I don't have any of them.

So if any kind souls would like to write up a review I'd be very happy.

A great review and I enjoyed reading it, so thanks!

Personally I loved the perception of marines back then (think 'Sardakur' for anyone who has read Dune), and more so than the current 'knights in space'. Like you say, even though 40k is still grimdark, it isn't anything like what it once was. The pictures of marines being blown to pieces, melted, electrocuted (practically every other picture!) I think were wonderful and characterful, a move away from the iconic and heroic individuals of many other rpg's both before and since.

Interesting about the 'you will only need a handful of models', an example of a company trying to find its way and establish a foothold in the market with this franchise. It's something you still read with a variety of other systems, it will be interesting to see if GW ever moves back in that direction if customers continue to get cold feet!

Pacific wrote:A great review and I enjoyed reading it, so thanks!

Personally I loved the perception of marines back then (think 'Sardakur' for anyone who has read Dune), and more so than the current 'knights in space'. Like you say, even though 40k is still grimdark, it isn't anything like what it once was. The pictures of marines being blown to pieces, melted, electrocuted (practically every other picture!) I think were wonderful and characterful, a move away from the iconic and heroic individuals of many other rpg's both before and since.

Agree so much. I loved the representation of Marines there; they actually seem much more heroic in that incarnation than they do now.

Interesting about the 'you will only need a handful of models', an example of a company trying to find its way and establish a foothold in the market with this franchise. It's something you still read with a variety of other systems, it will be interesting to see if GW ever moves back in that direction if customers continue to get cold feet!

The sooner the better

I remember not catching a rather unfortunate missprint in the Land Raider stats for the first few months that we played RT (around '89, I think?). During all that time, we believed that LRs had a toughness of 14 (yes, vehicles had a toughness value back then), and considering anybody could field them, everybody did.

Oh, and KIL RATIO!

I don't think GW can afford to move back towards a small model count game.

They are like a man running up the down escalator. It takes nearly all their effort just to stay in place.

The danger of releasing a real skirmish game is that people might abandon 40K.

5th edition clearly signalled the intention to expand model sals further. Troops were made more important, new codexes have cheaper points per unit, and game sizes have been pushed upwards.

Kilkrazy wrote:

The danger of releasing a real skirmish game is that people might abandon 40K.

IF they can do it in a way to keep players and create more players, then this is a move they more or less cannot afford not to do.

If they don't, someone else will make one and slowly but surely eat up the player base.

Cannibalising their own is better for them than a competitor eating it for them. They need to co-opt the disruption (which always starts small, so 'big' business often miss it); they will be eaten by 'crappy products for crappy customers'.

Classic. I remember when I first bought this book, I couldn't make sense of it at all. Didn't stop me devouring every word though.

In many ways, Rogue Trader is a brain storming session that managed to get published. It is far too incoherent to form an actual game. It wasn't until 2nd edition that there was a semblance of sanity (until then army lists were scattered throughout supplements and back issues of White Dwarf).

KK, can you scan the double page spread of the Space Marine chapters? Be interesting to see which ones survived (Rainbow Warrors RIP).

I love the confrontation between Orks and Humans:

" .. when Ork and Man first met upon some airless world over twenty-thousand years ago, each took a long hard look at the creature it had discovered, drew pistols, and simultaneously shot the other dead."

Awesome. I look forward to more. I didn't get exposed to 40K until prior to the release of Tau, iirc. The old bone-yard of games always intrigues me; its interesting to see how far they've fallen or how far they've come.

You know... looking over this thing, all I can say is, "No way."
It'll never catch on and, beyond a few small localized groups, people just aren't going to play it. It is too weird and too difficult to bother with.
Also, what the heck is a Jokaero? Try sticking with some kind of recognizable reality here, people.
Pfft. Please!


Eric

I still play RT with a group of friends, and its ability to be mixed with Necromunda plus the varius compendiums and such make for great GM'd and regular play games. It does rely on co-operative play rather than competative styles though.

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:wow you just made me all misty-eyed...I loved the RT days and still have those old orks to prove it

It just had STYLE! and a bit of a exotic, almost forbidden flavor to it compared with D & D and all of the others of the day.

Also those Marines were bad boys, with slogans like Kill Kill Kill on powerfists, and these were ultras

I had a bunch of old GW books and remember minis with things like kill kill painted on them. As a 13 year old i used to mimic this all the time. I remember the older symbol used for the chainfist on terminators i just need to find a pic of the symbols to paint on mine.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I've heard a lot about some of 40k's antecents like Laserburn, the Judge Dredd RPG (some of the supplements were also branded for 40k) and apparently there were some Citadel Journal or WD articles but I don't have any of them.

So if any kind souls would like to write up a review I'd be very happy.

There were several Judge Dredd RPG articles in White Dwarf, and they did a basic set of 40K stats for Judge Dredd figures in one of the early Citadel Journals, would you be interested in these?

I would be interested in seeing that article Howard, missed that completely back in the day. I do have the JD Bloodbowl team rules though!

If I remember correctly the only actual release that included both RT and JDRPG was the Citi-block floor plans which had a set of rules for JD block creation and a seperate section for RT Hive gang creation, basically a set of random tables ala the main book.

misfit wrote:

I had a bunch of old GW books and remember minis with things like kill kill painted on them. As a 13 year old i used to mimic this all the time. I remember the older symbol used for the chainfist on terminators i just need to find a pic of the symbols to paint on mine.

Misfit, I think you will find that was actually 'kil' 'kil'

See also, 'deth'

In the days when marines didn't get schooling beyond that experienced by an elementary school pupil, contrast with the marines in the Ultramarines movie who all sound like they received extra elocution lessons after class at Eton (except for Sean Pertwee of course!)

Pacific wrote:

misfit wrote:

I had a bunch of old GW books and remember minis with things like kill kill painted on them. As a 13 year old i used to mimic this all the time. I remember the older symbol used for the chainfist on terminators i just need to find a pic of the symbols to paint on mine.

Misfit, I think you will find that was actually 'kil' 'kil'

See also, 'deth'

In the days when marines didn't get schooling beyond that experienced by an elementary school pupil, contrast with the marines in the Ultramarines movie who all sound like they received extra elocution lessons after class at Eton (except for Sean Pertwee of course!)

You're right about that actually now i remember. I need to get my hands on some of those pics. I was checking out some old RT images last night on google and saw the shot with the chaplains led by a commisar and the one chaplain had a banner that said "be just and fear not" i used to paint that on my first marines back in the day. Think i'm gonna back to that with my current chapter.

Absolutely loved this... man it brings back memories...

Yay, a KK retro review and of RT no less!

I'll try to stay patient as I wait for part II...

Dang, wish I hadn't sold mine now, I'd be half tempted to break it out and have a go.

Still got a Compedium sitting in a box somewhere though.

I love the part where it says you only need "a dozen or so" models to play

Pacific wrote:

misfit wrote:

I had a bunch of old GW books and remember minis with things like kill kill painted on them. As a 13 year old i used to mimic this all the time. I remember the older symbol used for the chainfist on terminators i just need to find a pic of the symbols to paint on mine.

Misfit, I think you will find that was actually 'kil' 'kil'

See also, 'deth'

You're not the only one who remembers. We also have a certain Moderator named after one of these slogans...

I got hooked in through these old ads in Dragon magazine too. That, and seeing a few games in progress at gaming conventions when I was a kid. I was pretty awestruck, though my attention was more on Warhammer than on RT.

Flashman wrote:Classic. I remember when I first bought this book, I couldn't make sense of it at all. Didn't stop me devouring every word though.

In many ways, Rogue Trader is a brain storming session that managed to get published. It is far too incoherent to form an actual game. It wasn't until 2nd edition that there was a semblance of sanity (until then army lists were scattered throughout supplements and back issues of White Dwarf).

KK, can you scan the double page spread of the Space Marine chapters? Be interesting to see which ones survived (Rainbow Warrors RIP).

QFT
yeah, the rules for blast weapons were well weird - the bigger the blast the bigger the scatter that was very complicated and counter intuitive. playing a game was an argument fest (especially of you were only 12!)

as for the chapters that were in RT - I have a rainbow warriors army the other chapters were blood angels, space wolves, ultramarines (natch) blood drinkers, flesh eaters, flesh tearers, crimson fists, dark angels, iron hands, white scars and silver skulls (who?). I'll scan in the pics when i've got a mo.

love the retro review I'd love to see the rogue traders army list - mentioned in the WH40k compendium but i've ever seen it

This is some good gak dude.

"Kil! Kil! Kil!"

"Highest kil count: warzonz 9 and 21"

And of course the squat with the skyboard that has the crazy alien with "Slam Sector"

40k had such flavor. Now it's a muddy, gothic, grimdark, kiddy mess as opposed to a confusing, black-humor laden grimdark mess.

Looking forward to your take on the RT fluff, which will always be the best.

I still hang my head in shame for ever getting rid of my copy.

notprop wrote:I would be interested in seeing that article Howard, missed that completely back in the day. I do have the JD Bloodbowl team rules though!

I can't find it... I moved house recently and some stuff has just been packed in places I can't find. I'll put it up when I find it, but not sure when that will be...

Great review! I started playing in 4th... but what got me into the hobby was the old codexs/white dwarfs that were passed on to me. I remeber looking at the 2nd/3rd ed rulebook in wonder at all the corny/goofy orks and rules. Fun read

Howard A Treesong wrote:

notprop wrote:I would be interested in seeing that article Howard, missed that completely back in the day. I do have the JD Bloodbowl team rules though!

I can't find it... I moved house recently and some stuff has just been packed in places I can't find. I'll put it up when I find it, but not sure when that will be...

Damn, you tease!

Nice review. This book is one of my favorite RPG books of all time. It's very immersive, with tons of little details on each and every page, and the artwork is some pretty crazy stuff. It clearly set the pacing for future warhammer 40k art direction and world setting. I still love to look at this book, worth it for the artwork alone.

Part 2
And we're back with part 2 of the award-seeking retro review series.
With the rules (such as they are) covered we can now jump into the action with the first-EVER! 40k scenario – Battle for the Farm!

Some of you may not recall it since Battle for the Farm was later renamed Battle for the BLOOD Farm of SKULLS!

It starts innocently enough, the Crimson Fists (yes, once upon a time not EVERYTHING was about the Ultramarines) are chilling in their Fortress Monestary when all of the sudden! Out of nowhere! A whole Ork fleet attacks!

So the quickly launch an ICBM at it.

But they roll a 'hit' and a 'misfire' and the ICBM explodes over the Fortress Monestary killing most of the Fists and leveling the joint. Now Pedro Kantor (yes the same one around today and the same on the cover using an Ork head as an improvised weapon) must march to New Rynn City to meet up with the few Fists who were not caught in explosion. They bed down in an abandoned farm not knowing that a group of Orks led by Thrugg Bullneck have stashed some jewels there and are headed back to claim them. A fight ensues.



This is an incredible amount of background for what boils down to Marines meet Orks, they fight. But it's the first real taste of 40k fluff (other than the grimdark opening) and it works. It's got some black humor (marines blowing up their own fortress), despair (marine chapter reduced to a handful of men) and cruelty (the Orks had already slaughtered the humans in the farm and burned it to the ground). And surprisingly GW has kept all of this the official 40k fluff even after many RT elements like Squats, the Ultramarines being a 3rd founding chapter and Custodus being normal humans were dropped.



The book even came with counters so you could play this scenario right away.



Last year GW scaled it up to a 500 page novel which, to be frank, was pants. It didn't even include the Battle for the Farm (though it did have a battle for a farm)! It kept the basic backdrop but the marine were just as wooden and cookie cutter as in other novels, their tactics made no sense and the book ends with Pedro and the Ork Warboss (Snagrod the Arch-Arsonist) in a fist fight. Because that's how all interstellar wars should be settled, with a fist fight.


But hey, it's still a 500 page novel, not bad for a 4 page into scenario huh?



Now there's always one part of an RPG book that I find will make or break it, that will determine whether or not the game will last and whether or not it's worth playing. I refer of course to the weapons and equipment.

Cause let's face it, unless I'm doing something illegal, immoral and impossible, why am I bothering to play this game?

And here Rogue Trader delivers the goods!

We get 28 pages of the finest deathware the 41st millennium has – from flintlocks to plasma cannons - all lavishly illustrated with fluff for each one.



Each picture has a little 'thought for the day' on the bottom like 'Death is its own reward', 'No reward, no remorse, just kill' and of course 'Fear is the mind killer'. Heh, 'fear is the mind killer', that's awesome, where do they get their ideas?



And those are just snuck in! Other quotes get more of a spot light.



Exist for the Emperor! Highest Kil ratio: Warzonz 6 & 12! Defile the Mutant! Death!
Why can't modern armory pages look like this?



Oh did I mention how half the art in the book is Space Marines dying painfully? Well it is! Even then the real measure of any weapon was how well it killed Marines.



Here's a marine being gutshot by an ork!



But here is a marine making all of his 4+ (yes 4+) saves against 3 orks.



Despite the 'mere' 4+ save (which you could raise to 3+ by wearing flak armor over it) power armor was still the best in the game since it not only offered the best save (terminator armor wouldn't appear for a while longer) it also included life support for all the nasty gas and virus weapons in the game. There's toxic, radiation, virus and vortex grenades, all of which can be scaled up to off-board artillery.


The 40k battle ground is a nasty, nasty place with many, many ways to die.



And it's a place of dark despair and madness!



The whole book has full page illustrations scattered throughout just showing off the style and look of 40k. Even at this early date they have a lot of the retro future elements we still see, note all the hoses, the dial on the chair, even the spacesuit is torn at the left arm, if he loses pressure this guy is in real trouble even with his oversized collar and helmet.



Get ahead with the Imperial Guard! Ahead… a head… well darn it it's funny to me!



And right here the Space Marines won my heart! Gawd I love this picture!



So cool! I hope the make like, A MILLION books just about Space Marines!



And here we meet the legendary Scotti the Enginseer which, besides setting the tone for how technology works in the 41st Millennium, also manages to include two of the worst puns in GW history.

Enginseer! How did that get past the editors? I bet they won't be using that pun 25 years later!



Weapons are followed by vehicles and as you can see from well what the heck that is, the 40k look was already being established. WWI, WWII designs, rivets and comically oversized guns.



It would be a little while before the first vehicle kits appeared (Rhino, Land Raider and Ork Battlewagon) so there are a few scratch builds thrown in like this SM ornithopter.





There's also an early Land Raider scratch build.



And an early Imperial Guard Land Speeder. I've heard the Land Speeder is actually from GW's old Judge Dredd RPG, can anyone confirm?

That about wraps up this section, again the rules look gastlly but the art and design is a cut above anything that was out at the time and even holds up today.

Next time we'll finally hit the fluff sections beginning with the Age of the Imperium. Be there! Whenever I get around to it...

I don't think the land speeder was ever released under Judge Dredd, not in any catalogue I've seen. But the time it was first released Rogue Trader was established, it first came out with either Marine or IG crews.

I much prefer the depiction of Marines dying in the older material. They are too superhuman now, I prefer them being a bit more human, they are too devolved of that now.

Oh the fluff is good. They had a different approach to naming characters in the fluff then, there's a certain ludicrously named Inquisitor... well I won't spoil the review for others or your reading it. You'll surely know it when you see it.

I must admit, I burst out laughing at the Land Raider. I mean...wow...I'm sorry, but it just looks...silly.

Still, as a player who came in 5th edition, it's nice to get this look back at the old days I hear all the veterans talking about. Thanks for this!

More awesome stuff. Some of those quotes are still so iconic and evocative of the 40k feel.

The one about the sane and insane I remembered.

The ones about man being a spark in the darkness, and "Do not waste your tears..." are just awesome. Those are the attitude of the 41st millenium, and of a Space Marine.

Rogue Trader wrote:Do not waste your tears. I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Wow! I remember this; it was so poetic.

Is it a literary reference, or was this an indication of the quality of writing they had then compared to now?

Yeah its a pretty awesome - going back ten years or so it was one of the most common of sigged quotes on many forums, although you don't see so much of it now.

Thanks again for the review, it's great to see some of the little bits picked out in detail!

RE: The landraider pics.

I also remember the how-to's to make those buildings. Bucket of sand and some balls of varying sizes. Mix plaster and pour in.

@ChrisWWII: You call the venerable Land Raider "silly" and yet your avatar is some chibi heresy? Perhaps your definition of "silly" needs better codifying.

Hey, I never said silly = bad! I can quite like silly on occasion. Doesn't mean I won't laugh at it. Besides, Caramelldance Marine makes no claims that she isn't silly, or heretical

The old Land Raider really is a goofy looking design... It's like someone tried to combine a list of mistakes in armored vehicle design!

Balance wrote:The old Land Raider really is a goofy looking design... It's like someone tried to combine a list of mistakes in armored vehicle design!

It was a converted WW1 tank.

Looks entirely scratchbuilt to me.

True that.

I seem to remember a guide to making one of these appearing in WD - though I could be mis-remembering (or making it up as we used to say in the olden days).

Ah, the SM Ornithopter. Strangely that's the pic I always remember when I think of Rogue Trader.

Courtesy of Stuff of Legends, from the 1991 catalogs:





So the scratch builds aren't bad compared to the mass production versions that came out later.

Daba wrote:

Balance wrote:The old Land Raider really is a goofy looking design... It's like someone tried to combine a list of mistakes in armored vehicle design!

It was a converted WW1 tank.

It's inspired by a WWI tank but I don't think it's converted from one. All the real MkI tanks I've seen had treads that went back much farther.



As for it being a bad design, like I said a lot of that was on purpose, GW went for (and still goes for) a WWI, erly WWII look which at the time was a sharp contrast with other high tech games.

Anyway I hope to have the next section done this week, I'm glad people like it.

KK,

One more vote for awesome. I spent so much time reading through this thing and day dreaming about the games we would actually never play because the game was so damn complicated.

Ridiculous weapons like cluster missiles scattering vortex mines were discussed, but never actually put into play...

Thanks for this review,

RZ

I can't wait for the next part!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:It's inspired by a WWI tank but I don't think it's converted from one. All the real MkI tanks I've seen had treads that went back much farther.

And there were few WW1 tanks as plastic kits back then. The 1/35th models of various British tanks were released by Emhar well into the 90s.

There is an old issue of White Dwarf where someone with a Dark Angel army converted a Mk1 tank for use as a Land Raider but that would likely be because the RT kit was no longer available by then.

What was the reason for the Land Raider kit being out of production for so long? Like the Ork Battlewagon it ceased manufacture in the early 90s and hardly appeared in games throughout the bulk of 2nd edition and didn't get a new kit until the last few years. Did they break the mould or did it just wear out quickly? Either way you couldn't get a Land Raider or Ork Battlewagon or the better part of a decade leaving a huge hole in the codex. People complain that all the codex options don't have models for them, well the only vehicles Orks could have for years and years were Bikes.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:It's inspired by a WWI tank but I don't think it's converted from one. All the real MkI tanks I've seen had treads that went back much farther.

And there were few WW1 tanks as plastic kits back then. The 1/35th models of various British tanks were released by Emhar well into the 90s.

There is an old issue of White Dwarf where someone with a Dark Angel army converted a Mk1 tank for use as a Land Raider but that would likely be because the RT kit was no longer available by then.

What was the reason for the Land Raider kit being out of production for so long? Like the Ork Battlewagon it ceased manufacture in the early 90s and hardly appeared in games throughout the bulk of 2nd edition and didn't get a new kit until the last few years. Did they break the mould or did it just wear out quickly? Either way you couldn't get a Land Raider or Ork Battlewagon or the better part of a decade leaving a huge hole in the codex. People complain that all the codex options don't have models for them, well the only vehicles Orks could have for years and years were Bikes.

That's a good question.
I was able to snag a plastic Battlewagon and an Armorcast one back in 2nd ed.
But I have not seen many others with them, and the Land Raider is a rare beast as well.

Dos anyone know GW's reasons? Were they produced out of house?

This thread gives me the warm fuzzies, it was RT that got me into 40k,

"A Space RPG/TTG for people with a random assortment of figures!"

as apposed too:

"OUR rules to use with OUR figures, and OUR glue's and OUR paints!"

Oh Workshop, how you've changed

skrulnik wrote:
Dos anyone know GW's reasons? Were they produced out of house?

They were.

The company that produced the plastic inserts for Lesney's "Matchbox" (tm) cars did the initial plastics work for them (RTB001 and Rhino/land raiders) - they might also have done the imperial guard and space ork plastics.
GW didn't have its own plastics manufacturing capability back then and went to a nearby local who could.

AFAIK, the dies for the land raider were destroyed, same for the battlewagon. I don't know the reasons why.
It's quite hard to 'break' a steel-trap injection die. You pretty much have to scrap them.

Fantastic read! Thanks for posting this, KK

chromedog wrote:

skrulnik wrote:
Dos anyone know GW's reasons? Were they produced out of house?

They were.

The company that produced the plastic inserts for Lesney's "Matchbox" (tm) cars did the initial plastics work for them (RTB001 and Rhino/land raiders) - they might also have done the imperial guard and space ork plastics.
GW didn't have its own plastics manufacturing capability back then and went to a nearby local who could.

AFAIK, the dies for the land raider were destroyed, same for the battlewagon. I don't know the reasons why.
It's quite hard to 'break' a steel-trap injection die. You pretty much have to scrap them.

The RT rhinos came out the same time and stayed in production which is another oddity to the puzzle. And of course during 2nd edition GW produced tons of new IG and Eldar plastic vehicles so they certainly could have made new land raiders and battlewagons if they wanted to.

Maybe they wanted to support non-marine armies?

Nah, never happen.

Enjoying this!

I am impressed. Its come a long way.

Is this an ornithopter thingy Flashman mentioned of please?
It is a cool design imho but possibly awkward on the table
But the best Imperium flyer I have seen to date.

many thanks KK
Is mostly all news to me

Yep.
That's the ornithopter.
It's a Flier.


Yes, EVEN RT 40k had flier rules in it.
How 40k has fallen in complexity and flavour in all these years.

Don't mean to brag but a friend's coworker has been clearing out all his old 40k and RPG stuff and came across a pretty much like new copy of RT and the WD RT Compendium which I just purchased! I AM THE UBER-NERD!

Ozymandias wrote:Don't mean to brag but a friend's coworker has been clearing out all his old 40k and RPG stuff and came across a pretty much like new copy of RT and the WD RT Compendium which I just purchased! I AM THE UBER-NERD!

You lucky git!

notprop wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:

notprop wrote:I would be interested in seeing that article Howard, missed that completely back in the day. I do have the JD Bloodbowl team rules though!

I can't find it... I moved house recently and some stuff has just been packed in places I can't find. I'll put it up when I find it, but not sure when that will be...

Damn, you tease!

Well look what I found!

I think the rules are pre-Rogue Trader, but they are fun all the same.







And the rules..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd009.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/howardtreesong/dredd010.jpg

Howard, you've made my day!

I got hold of the RT book from a friend when i first began 40k 4 years or so ago, It's falling apart (like that when I got it btw) but I still flick through now and again, you could still use some of the scenarios from near the back with a little bit of work.

@Howard: Yep, those were the old JD minis in 28mm that GW/citadel did for the JD rpg back in the 80s.

Had a set of Dredd, Anderson, Giant, Cal, the four dark judges and a couple of brit-cit judges (brit-cit had the lion-head instead of the eagle on their shoulder and bike fairing).

I have loads of the figures but not the Judge Cal and his two lackeys (the one in the dress and the other in underpants) and never found a Judge Fire. Got a few Dredds, couple on bikes, the Angel Gang, lots of perps and citizens. The fatties were fun.

Also have a set of larger figures, I think about 45mm, made by Citadel but not for not GW.
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Titan_2000_A.D._Judge_Dredd

Getting a bit OT now, so looking forward to the next part of the review.

Hey, thanks for that.

There's my large dredd figure. T1 second release.

They also did some Stronty dog figures in that scale (we didn't have GW stores back in the late 80s, but some of the larger comics stores stocked them.)

Not to steal Kyoto's thunder, but I wanted to share a few of my favorite things about Rogue Trader.

First off is the picture that got me hook line and sinker. Opening the book to this page (almost the middle of the book), my eyes were assaulted with what Grim Dark really is, not the pansy bull crap force fed to the plebes nowadays.

The Gigeresque portrayal of the God Emperor of Mankind.



The power of his description has yet to be exceeded.

Then there are these two pleasant gents. The portrayal is another fave due to the quality of the art for its time. It was akin to some good quality animated movies of that period and caused me to beleive that this company was so cool, that they had had the foresight to make an animated feature to portray and promote this sort of product. I guess I was wrong...



And lastly, my favorite bit of equipment. Everything about this item screams "bad ass".
(Don't forget to use suspensors with your equipment on these bad boys. You could even carry heavy bolters on these suckers with three suspensors, and still wield them if you were crazy enough...)



Rogue Trader is the likes of which we shall never see again. Its portrayal of such background was almosr innocent in its purity even while being the most offensive to date.

Rogue Trader can best be described in a single word. And that word is "Metal".

Man. Why did they ever get rid of that? I can see why Space Marines and the IOM are so popular now, if that was their fluff then.

Makes the Emperor into someone truly worthy of worship.

chromedog wrote:They also did some Stronty dog figures in that scale (we didn't have GW stores back in the late 80s, but some of the larger comics stores stocked them.)

What the 28mm, yep I have Johnny Alpha, Wulf Sternhammer and the Gronk. They did crossover in the comic strip so are the same universe, just about.

hey that one thing at the begging mentioned the enslavers. who are/were they?
and aside from them and the squats how many other races were there?

IIRC, the Enslavers were a race of warp creatures--not daemons, there IS a difference--who could take control of the minds of both psykers and non psykers, and spread virus like...using psykers to bring more of their kind into the galaxy. It is believed that the Enslaver Plague millions of years ago was what finally drove the C'tan into hiding.

They also had unofficial rules published by GW during 3rd/4th edition, which were BAHroken as heck. The old Adepticon Gladiator back in the day allowed you to use any unit GW had published for 40k, and a friend of mine got bent over by Enslavers one year. Good times.

I got hold of the RT book from a friend when i first began 40k 4 years or so ago, It's falling apart (like that when I got it btw) but I still flick through now and again, you could still use some of the scenarios from near the back with a little bit of work.

Yeah it's pretty common GW had the worst bindings ever, they used to sell three ring binders so that you could put your mangled pieces of gak in there. The worst was paying $40 for a hardcover version of lost and the damned, never bought another GW hardback after that.

My hardcover of RT fell apart about a year after I got it.

My softcover printing is still intact, though.

Don't know if other countries got these though, or whether it was a thing limited to us, and a local print/distribution job.

jaggedjaw wrote:hey that one thing at the begging mentioned the enslavers. who are/were they?
and aside from them and the squats how many other races were there?

Loads of minor races had stat lines, Space Zoat, Jokaero, Grinx, Slann, the Ambull and loads of little creatures and carnivorous plants.

chromedog wrote:My hardcover of RT fell apart about a year after I got it.

My softcover printing is still intact, though.

Don't know if other countries got these though, or whether it was a thing limited to us, and a local print/distribution job.

Yeah that was the worst bit. The expensive hard covers always went faster, isn't longevity why you buy the hard cover.

I love my copy. I missed rogue trader, not starting until 2nd ed, but it was so worth picking up. Fantastic book.

And we're back! Sorry for the long delay but real life has been busy lately and these posts take a lot more time and energy than the normal internet snark. So this time we're going to enter the AGE OF THE IMPERIUM!

A time of Grim Darkness™ where there is only war.

And skull codpeices of course. But that only comes naturally from war. So anyway…



Wow that is a lot of Space Marines. It looks like… there's like a THOUSAND of them! And look at that cool fortress/tower/skull thing. I'd love for someone to make that as a diorama.

This chapter starts off with background, lots of background. Far, far more than this game could possibly need. After all we have Space Marines, Space Orks, Space Elfs and other concepts that really need no introduction. But GW really works to create a coherent universe with its own physics, history and politics.

3 pages are spent explaining what the warp is, how interstellar travel works and the role of Navigators. This has nothing to do with the game being published. Nothing. It sort of, kind of, came up in Space Fleet a few years later, Battlefleet Gothic 11 years later or the Rogue Trader RPG TWENTY YEARS LATER!

And that's awesome.

I remember reading that at one point 40k was going to be a space combat game but evolved in the course of the writing into a sci-fi version of Warhammer Fantasy, so they might have had this fluff lying around already. And yeah, it's largely stolen from Frank Herbert's monumental Dune series (seriously if you've not read it at least read the first book, it's like playing Fantasy without having read Lord of the Rings). But hey it's this attention to detail and imagination ( imaginative swiping at least) that creates an engaging universe that keeps us coming back.

No matter how bad the rules may be.

GW lavishes attention on the Imperium early on establishing the immortal Emperor and the bureaucracy under him.



Bureaucracy? They seriously give us a couple of pages on the bureaucracy?
Yep. Cause it's the MOST AWESOME BUREAUCRACY EVAH!



Seriously if I could wear that to the office I'd… Well do I really want to see my coworkers with no shirt and tight leather pants? But it would be kind of cool, I dunno, for a week or so.

And hey, I'd get this guy as a boss!



Rogue Trader was the first and perhaps last time we had rules for Adeptus Administratum clerks. They have a 50% chance of having a gun!

We also get a breakdown of what the two-headed eagle represents and what color everyone's robes should be.



Again, all this background for a game where Space Marines shoot at Space Dwarfs in Space.

Damn.

As you might expect the combat-relevant guys like the Adeptus Custodes (then just normal humans whose pike as actually CONCEALED LASGUNS! FEAR THE LASGUN!), Mechanicus, Arbites, Astropaths all get attention. But it goes even farther and stops to talk about the Administratum, planetary governors, the High Lords and all the other bits and pieces needed to make a coherent fictional empire.

One group that gets a lot of focus in this book (and throughout later editions and even 2 games of their own) is of course the Inquisition!



In fact the big =I= gets one of the first named characters – the mighty Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, a tireless exposer of psychic misdeeds and genetic deviance. While Pedro went on to a long career with his own rules and model and a novel poor Obiwan has languished in obscurity since 1987. Almost makes you want to write some fanfic for him.

Almost.



If anyone cares to make a model for him here's his stats and fluff, and the first appearance of the iconic big =I=.

There's another fun bit of art that in one little illustration shows how Grimdark the Imperium is with a guardsman lead by a chain on his neck begging before some sort of guy in impractical power armor.



There's a story there, a good one, much more interesting than a bunch of angry bald men shooting stuff.

The Adeptus Mech gets one of my favorite bits of art from this book, one that GW still uses on the cover of the Big Black Book!



And another one that just sums up the insanity of how technology works in 40k, a bunch of guys in lab coats swinging censors of incense around.



It also talks about a great concept, technomats. Rather than waste years teaching someone how to drive a rhino, or operate a Space VCR, the Adeptus Mechanicus just burns the information into your brain. It drives you mad over time, but hey, there's more where you came from.

Astropaths get some attention, in case you're wondering there's a 90% chance they carry d6 doses of web solvent.



Again, great art. Not as polished as we get now but lots of atmosphere.
I mean look at this puppy!



It's a Grimdark Janitor for the Adeptus Terra and the Grimdark forklift with the guy wired into it is loading a coffin with a screaming psyker in it!

Awesome!

GW please, please, please, next time you commission art for a book, ask the artist to come up with another Grimdark janitor, or bus, or market. We know what angry bald men shooting stuff looks like, stretch that imagination a bit!

Speaking of Angry Bald Man, join us next time when we look at the Marines of Space and some other minor races that really never went anywhere significant.

Encore - Encore!

Back to the stompin grounds to where it all begun - to quote some runrig.

Thank ya for those nice and oldskool thread!

Powerboard mounted Squats with heavy bolters. Those were the days.

A great review! Thanks again mate, keep up the nice little observations

You're totally right about how important the background is - Even though the game's peak/niche element seems to have moved towards tournament and competitive play, at least in this area of the internet community, I still think imagination is a part of the experience. Even the most hard-nosed math hammer exponent has a feeling for it I feel. I think it's a big edge that GW has with their 40k universe, and keeps players coming back.

Excellent point. Clearly, the depth of imagination invested in this setting has been a major part of the game's longevity and popularity.

Thanks all, I'll try not to take another month for the next installment!

Just so you know, the "And whatever happens, you will not be missed" was in my 5th ed. rulebook.

That "Inquisitor in impractical armour" was even a model.

I have him (somewhat modified since) as my Radical Xenos Inquisitor (now with added monkeys).

chromedog wrote:That "Inquisitor in impractical armour" was even a model.

I have him (somewhat modified since) as my Radical Xenos Inquisitor (now with added monkeys).

And here he is!




It's amazing how much of the fluff was laid down in these early books, yes they looted a lot of stuff from other sources but the finished idea was great. Between Rogue Trader and the Realm of Chaos books there was a huge amount established which GW have relied upon very heavily since, though some stuff was modified and added with 2nd edition. It seems to me that it shows just how little is really new or creative put out by GW today. Rogue Trader and associated books created this universe. Now their creative content is limited to nonsense about trying to make space marines look ever more impossibly tough and slaughtering huge daemons and surfing the warp and covering themselves in blood of innocents etc, and it's all done just to sell their latest special character and goofy vehicle. In the Rogue Trader book, well a sizeable volume of the fluff had no impact on the model range.

I should scan my copy. You could blow some peoples minds if you scan the Space Marines stats from Rogue Trader. That's right toughness 3 marines!

Indeed, and I remember the complaints from non-Marine players when they were raised to T4

They cottoned on quickly that the marine model range was the jewel in the crown, I think.

Wow, the fluff back then was awesome! Makes me like the game much more. Also, the link describing the Emperor, provided by Hellfury (this one!) is amazing, and finally explains the "human flesh- and human blood" part of the intro paragraph to each rulebook. Man, he eats psyker souls... that's just metal. You'd never see that in one of today's books, or that picture of the emperor as rotting flesh, either.