39927
Post by: Cobourn
[[Image:AOI]]
History has a habit of repeating itself; The Age of Old Earth is known as the time from the dawn of mankind to the founding of the Imperium. Cities such as Atlantys and Nova Yourk are cited as being the most legendary and ancient cities of Old Earth. Nations known as Jermani, Merica, Britania, and Bania are said to have prospered and wilted during this time.
Throughout history, all famous civilisations are destroyed.
The Imperium was founded ten thousand years ago and it is currently ruled by the heavy hand, of the High Lords of Terra and though the voice of the ‘immortal’ god-emperor. Can this Empire/civilisation stand for even another Millennia? - Especially when our world’s ancient nuclear powers, glorious warrior Primarchs all succumbed to their deadly fate amongst the galactic battlefield?
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Post by: KamikazeCanuck
Don't think so.
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Post by: wizard12
Well, I think that when the throne finally fails everything is going to fall into chaos. With no astronomicon there'll be no 'safe' warp travel. There is a good chance Terra will fall to daemons inside the webway. Hundreds of thousands of planets will be lost to enemies of the IoM and thousands more will leave the IoM. The entire governing system of the IoM will be shaken by the loss of Terra and the emperor. In all likely hood there'll be a power struggle between the remaining factions of IoM (mecanicus, departmento munititorium, esseclarchy, inquisition) for power over what is left of the IoM and for power within their factions.
But will the IoM survive? IMO, Yeah, probably. The emperor will either be reborn into the universe or become a seriously powerful chaos god, one which makes the top four look a little weak. He'll help. The fact that the IoM is so huge will mean that some areas will survive. For example, IoM planets in the veiled region will probably survive because they're so damn hard to find.
But then again, the odds ain't in our favor...
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
GW seems to have built up the 'End Times' into a sort of Make or Break for the Imperium of Man. I'll put my trust in cold steel and human resolve.
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Post by: purplefood
The IoM's fortunes seem to go up and down and right now they are pretty down... i have a feeling that if it went on they'd eventually recover... though billions and billions would die.
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Post by: HiddenPower
The IoM will probably just fracture into smaller sub empires. They will be centered around some of the more powerful areas such as Ultramar and the fleet bases. The big E will not become a warp god it just doesnt make sense IMHO.
The chaos gods are made up of emotions and just because the E is a uber powerful psycher doesnt mean he will become a god upon death.
I can Imagine that the IoM will become like a bunch of little Tau empires all over the place with the Astartes just protecting the routes between them.
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Post by: jonolikespie
There doing the same thing that they have for the past 10,000 years. I think that they could keep doing it for at least another couple.
While it does look rather bleak atm it also probably looked pretty bleak during the heresy or the age of apostasy.
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Post by: Lord Graveline
The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!). When he dies, the astronomican will collapse causing the failure of psychic communication and stable warp travel. Humanity will likely fracture and the Imperium will collapse into a massive and very destructive civil war. There will become a new dark age throughout the Imperium and it's likely that billions, if not trillions of lives will be lost.
From there, there are 3 possible outcomes.
1. There species of Homo Erectus will be destroyed and Humanity will be extinct. Haha, not bloody likely! Just like 'Emperors Faithful' I put my trust in cold steel, human resolve and good old perseverance (with a bayonet in hand, of course!)
2. We become a broken species on the brink of extinction like those pansy Eldar. The difference between them and us though is that as Humans, we dont have the patience (or the lifespan) to train our warriors for centuries and we're much more headstrong and impatient. This can be a good thing when you need to make up lost ground! See, we rarely have this "I'll just do a little bit at a time to help my species" mindset. Humans are much more "OMG, I need to be remembered forever so I need to do ALL OF THIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSS in, what!? 50 years!? I'd better get started RIGHT NOW!" So we'll do what Humans do best! Breed like bunnies, put our faith in the Emperor returning to save us and charge in against anything that stood in our way! . . . Unfortunately as Humans, this also means that we may attack each other, but fingers crossed we could use our common hate of everyone else to help unite us lol.
3. Definitely the most likely. In these darkest of days, and maybe even after number 2 comes to some form of fruition, the Emperor will be reborn. Just like in the days of old, before the official founding of the Imperium when the Emperor was born from the souls of the Shamans, the Emperors soul will one day find its way through the warp and be born in the material realm to once again lead Humanity to a new Golden Age.
The Emperor Protects. Now. Forever. Always.
Humanity shall never be defeated.
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Post by: DA's Forever
purplefood wrote:The IoM's fortunes seem to go up and down and right now they are pretty down... i have a feeling that if it went on they'd eventually recover... though billions and billions would die.
Arguably that's never mattered much before now. This time it'd hurt em' though
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Lord Graveline wrote:The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!).
It doesn't actually say that the Golden Throne is failing. Just that Tech Priests have discovered failings in the Golden Throne that they can't repair. No info is given on how severe or extensive these failings are or how crucial these are to the workings of the throne. It's unreasonable to simply assume out of hand that the Emperors Death is imminent.
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Post by: Brother Coa
Imperium will survive, simply because we are Humans and we are hard to exterminate. Also, I imagine that in time they will upgrade their tech, maybe use something new under the pressure of war effort. Also, in time there will be more SM chapters, more IG regiments to replace those that where lost in the wars for retribution. And if GT fails - the Emperor will simply resurect and then god help the aliens, mutants and heretics. Automatically Appended Next Post: Lord Graveline wrote:
We become a broken species on the brink of extinction like those pansy Eldar. The difference between them and us though is that as Humans, we dont have the patience (or the lifespan) to train our warriors for centuries and we're much more headstrong and impatient. This can be a good thing when you need to make up lost ground! See, we rarely have this "I'll just do a little bit at a time to help my species" mindset. Humans are much more "OMG, I need to be remembered forever so I need to do ALL OF THIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSS in, what!? 50 years!? I'd better get started RIGHT NOW!" So we'll do what Humans do best! Breed like bunnies, put our faith in the Emperor returning to save us and charge in against anything that stood in our way! . . . Unfortunately as Humans, this also means that we may attack each other, but fingers crossed we could use our common hate of everyone else to help unite us lol.
And btw there is a secret organization of both Humans and Eldar that is working to prevent just that. They have many allies, some of witch are planetary governors.
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Post by: nathaniel_garro
in reference to the possibility of the GT failing, i'd be inclined to agree with those that think that the emperor would be reborn, rather than becoming some kind of god whether chaos or otherwise. What i think would be a really interesting twist would be for the IoM to have to scour the galaxy or whatever, looking for the emperor, reborn into his new 'vessel', in whatever form that may be. It would be like when the emperor had to search for his sons the primarchs, now the children of the emperor, would be in turn searching for their father. GW have always wirtten and come up with immense back story etc for their games, and i dont doubt that they already have some ideas for how the fortunes of the IoM are going to change when they release the 6th edition rules.
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Post by: Steu
The Imperium has endured for 10,000 years it shall endure for 10,000 more 
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
All depends what happens to the Emperor in this time. If he dies there will definitely be problems. Especially the time it will take him to return the power. (the way he is reborn). When he dies and humanities back is broken things will definitely happen.
- Eldar will scoot around like normal.
- Tau will definitely benefit, gain ALOT of human cultists for the greater good.
- Cadia will eventualy fall to Chaos and the Eye of terror will break quarantine.
- Tyranids may actually leave humanity alone, now that the giant "free buffet" neon sign that is the Emperor has gone out.
- Hopefully mars will throw out something useful to help out humanity for a while. (and the Dragon wont burst ouit and do some raping.)
- Ork's will love the easy fights of less defended planets.
Thats how I think of it anyways.
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Post by: Laodamia
xXSir MontyXx wrote:
- Tyranids may actually leave humanity alone, now that the giant "free buffet" neon sign that is the Emperor has gone out.
That's a good point actually. I wonder what would happen with the nids if the astronomican fades. We all now they want to nom us because we're basically on their path towards terra and the big psychic flashlight which attracts them like moths. So, I wonder if they would leave the galaxy if the emperor stops fueling the astronomican.
On the point of the AdMech, I think that if the Imperium collapses, a lot of planets would stop to be under the AdMech's technological censure, which would eventually bring about a new era of technological innovations (in the few star systems that maintained a strong political organisation). Because remember that if the IoM collapses, the AdMech collapses too. These two entities are too reliant on each other to survive alone. And without the AdMech's stupid religious beliefs, humanity would start inventing new ways to kill people every day like the Tau!
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Post by: SilverMK2
Well, it has been stuck in 999.M41 for about 20,000 years already...
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Post by: FourCartridge
Toward the OP, I doubt it. With it's current way of thinking, general pessimism and downright brutality, no. there's a chance for it, but they need to change their methods if that can ever be realized.
My bet is if the Imperium collapses, Humanity will likely fracture up into several independent organizations(rendering the Emperors whole effort in his life null, void, and moot), regress even further than it already is, and basically fight just to survive(of course, that's not a big change). If Games Workshop ever decides to advance the fluff, this would be probaly the course it would go.
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Post by: Cobourn
Some good reactions/comments from all of you. I will post something myself later 
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Post by: Hlaine Larkin mk2
I personally thin that the eintire Galaxy will turn into one free for all. With the big E reborn trying to unite the IoM there will be some small fractures. Abaddon will try to fight pass Cadia and most Primarchs will return. The Necrons may discover more C'Tan to lead them in their war of extermination. The dark eldar have been increasingly violent and this will continue. Eldar and tau may ally and forge a larger empire in the southeast and the nids will pause as the astronomican goes out but will restart when the emporer hits the main stage again and the orks will keep fighting as they always have.
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Post by: WARORK93
Brother Coa wrote:Imperium will survive, simply because we are Humans and we are hard to exterminate. Also, I imagine that in time they will upgrade their tech, maybe use something new under the pressure of war effort. Also, in time there will be more SM chapters, more IG regiments to replace those that where lost in the wars for retribution. And if GT fails - the Emperor will simply resurect and then god help the aliens, mutants and heretics.
^This. Back humanity into a corner and start praying that it doesn't come back to obliterate you.
Whats more tenacious and brutal than an ork, more cunning than an eldar, more stubborn than a squat and more resourceful than a tau firewarrior?
nothing in existence is more dangrous than a man fighting for his right to exist and his right to be free.
so the answer to your question? yes, the IoM will be around for the unforseeable future. 
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Post by: Uhlan
WARORK93 wrote:Brother Coa wrote:Imperium will survive, simply because we are Humans and we are hard to exterminate. Also, I imagine that in time they will upgrade their tech, maybe use something new under the pressure of war effort. Also, in time there will be more SM chapters, more IG regiments to replace those that where lost in the wars for retribution. And if GT fails - the Emperor will simply resurect and then god help the aliens, mutants and heretics.
^This. Back humanity into a corner and start praying that it doesn't come back to obliterate you.
Whats more tenacious and brutal than an ork, more cunning than an eldar, more stubborn than a squat and more resourceful than a tau firewarrior?
nothing in existence is more dangrous than a man fighting for his right to exist and his right to be free.
so the answer to your question? yes, the IoM will be around for the unforseeable future.
As much as I loathe to compare the human race to Cockroaches, I'd like to think we are at least as tenacious as the orks and Eldar.
Though it has been said in the fluff that mankind has a "special relationship" with Chaos. It was foreseen by certain Xenos and explained to Alpharius that should Horus defeat the Emperor mankind and chaos would "cancel each other out" thus saving the galaxy. Ok, I'm really paraphrasing here...
With that in mind, I wonder what mankind would do if EVERYONE was trying to exterminate us in order to foster every other races salvation? That might be tough even for us Cockroaches.
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Post by: purplefood
Even if every race wored together it would take some doing... the Imperium is a big place and it would take a while... there are always survivors
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Post by: Uhlan
Deleted extra post...
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Laodamia wrote:xXSir MontyXx wrote:
- Tyranids may actually leave humanity alone, now that the giant "free buffet" neon sign that is the Emperor has gone out.
That's a good point actually. I wonder what would happen with the nids if the astronomican fades. We all now they want to nom us because we're basically on their path towards terra and the big psychic flashlight which attracts them like moths. So, I wonder if they would leave the galaxy if the emperor stops fueling the astronomican.
On the point of the AdMech, I think that if the Imperium collapses, a lot of planets would stop to be under the AdMech's technological censure, which would eventually bring about a new era of technological innovations (in the few star systems that maintained a strong political organisation). Because remember that if the IoM collapses, the AdMech collapses too. These two entities are too reliant on each other to survive alone. And without the AdMech's stupid religious beliefs, humanity would start inventing new ways to kill people every day like the Tau!
No, they wont leave because they found quite a bit' of tasty biomass here. However they will probably stop charging humanity as much. 
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Post by: CoI
I'm in the 'Emperor dies and is reborn boat'. but when he comes back... does he learn from his mistakes? or do things continue as they did, dooming us to the eternal repetition of other peoples failures?
I think humanity will survive. Maybe ally with one of the less evil races (eldar/tau) to do so, but it will the IOM? nope. its stagnated. it will collapse on itself eventually and something new will be born.
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Post by: Lord Graveline
Emperors Faithful wrote:Lord Graveline wrote:The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!).
It doesn't actually say that the Golden Throne is failing. Just that Tech Priests have discovered failings in the Golden Throne that they can't repair. No info is given on how severe or extensive these failings are or how crucial these are to the workings of the throne. It's unreasonable to simply assume out of hand that the Emperors Death is imminent.
I didnt mean that right now it's failing and gonna collapse tomorrow. The Golden Throne itself is a massive machine! I just meant that if these failings continue to pile up, just like the motor of a car or the cogs of a factory, those small little breaks in the machine are gonna cause it to break down eventually (and sadly).
WARORK93 is right. Humanity is far too tenacious to just roll over and die when it looks like all hope is lost. We're not cockroaches, because we're better than everyone else -- but we'll certainly seem like it to them! We'll definitely come back and win at life, the universe and everything. Doubt is for the dying -- cept the Human Race!
To CoI -- I was thinking the same thing! Im wondering if He'll have learned from his past mistakes or if He's going to continue the cycle of "Great Crusade --> Horus Heresy --> Undeath (vegetative state) via Life Support + Perceived Godhood --> Death --> Rebirth" or if instead it'll be more like "Great Crusade --> Humanity totally kicking everyone's butt (even in the event of an attempted coup by a Horus-like figure)"
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Post by: Cobourn
We have looked at the issues surrounding the Sanctum Imperialis, the fears behind losing the Emperor and the strength & perseverance of the human race over the various adversaries faced in the galaxy.
But what about the effectiveness and sheer numbers of IoM's actual manpower?
Looking at the spacemarines first (roughly 1 million strong on paper) which roughly equates to a dismal one space marine warrior per planet in the empire - We have that many worlds... This of course is not workable, so we need countless billions of men and women - hundreds of thousands of different regiments - to use as landfill & provide cannon fodder. They are our formidable Imperial Guard which we all know.
But heres the thing - the administrative and logistical demands currently posed on the Administratum would in reality have to limit the number of combat troops put in the field. The billions-strong manpower "pipeline" would be an "invisible horde of people going here and there but seemingly never arriving". So this means your probably looking at less than a quarter of the total imperial army force (and much much less for Astartes legions) engaged at any one time against the enemy. Because of this; our forces that are engaged in the fighting against your Orks, Chaos and other horrible bests, are suffering probably 80 percent casualties. A prime example of this damaging concept is the the Ultramarines fighting against the Hive fleet Behemoth and losing an entire company.
I realise the empire cant be everywhere at once - but that is the problem isnt it? The empire, even with the immortal emperor still alive or dead is likely to see a future split into two or maybe three empires maybe? The start is, its even lost contact with old conquered imperial worlds for generations...
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Post by: FourCartridge
That's the Adminastratum for you. If the Imperium can just get the obsessive compulsive bureaucrats out of the way, it's manpower pipeline is defiantly going to be more streamlined.
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Post by: DeadGaurd
Emperors Faithful wrote:It doesn't actually say that the Golden Throne is failing. Just that Tech Priests have discovered failings in the Golden Throne that they can't repair. No info is given on how severe or extensive these failings are or how crucial these are to the workings of the throne. It's unreasonable to simply assume out of hand that the Emperors Death is imminent.
Tech Priest "I'm sorry my lord, but I dont know how to fix the vibraty part"
But in all seriosness, I do think the Imperium will eventually fail, but I don't think it will be the end of humanity. Another Empire or other human nations will arise, hopefully without a fear of advancing technology.
edit: this way im less repeditive
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Post by: FourCartridge
As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined.
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Post by: Cobourn
Imposter? Maybe a plant by Chaos to mislead us? Or saviour of our Galaxy?
Well if you are thinking along the lines of assassination, you will have your work cut out for you. Of all the Galactic leaders, the God-Emperor is perhaps the most protected.
His body is kept inhumanly alive in the throne room surrounded by no less than at three hundred Adeptus Custodes, the heart of the Imperial Palace, on the Imperial hive world of Holy Terra [Earth].
The Palace itself is divided into Inner and Outer Palace. It is described as "an endless, black hive of forbidden technology and subterranean passages delving deep within the bowels of the planet."
There is a fear of Space Marines among the people who live on Terra, so any assassins would need to adopt a lesser profile. Perhaps disguising under the pretence of a Pilgrim would allow the assassin(s) the edge they needed to inflitrate properly and to remain unseen and pass through the Eternity Gate.
The fear of removing the Emperor from power, is that such an event might supposedly create a fifth God of Chaos and create another Eye of Terror; one which would span the entire Imperium. Then the IoM would definitely be retreating on all fronts.
But is this Imperial truth? A deception, a construct created by the High Lords of Terra? Who knows....in the meantime thousands of psykers are sacrificed every year to sustain the Emperor's psychic presence in the Warp, and countless thousands more must constantly be drained to power the Astronomican. We are losing any chance of a saviour appearing to rescue man. It would make a good story at least 
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Post by: FourCartridge
I meant before the Heresy, when the Emperor was still alive. I still think he's just a glorified murderer.
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Post by: Inquisitor Cyotle
They will conqure all within the next millenia
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Post by: Eldrad
They are spread a little to thin thier for i think they will die.
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
In crunch-time the Imperium could always bring its forces back in on itself. They would lose ALOT of territory but its better than extinction.
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Post by: Laodamia
Yeah, humanity is far too resilient to simply vanish like that. The IoM might get destroyed or at least be seriously weakened during the course of the next millenia, but humanity will prevail.
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Post by: ChronoCupcake
My take on the whole end of days is, the emperor wont die straight away but rather ... wilt, the astronomicom dulling permanently and no more emperors tarot, random miracles or him talking to mankind But instead we see a new individual born the 40k equivalent of fantasies Valten exalted of Sigmar, An individual with all the powers and memories of the Emperor perhaps even a birthmark of the imperial Aquila on his chest. But the Iom would be torn about if they should accept this individual as the Emperor reincarnated or just a powerful heretic, perfectly fits the Grimdark nature of 40k, eventually after failing to seize power from the high lords of terra who are still adamant on worshiping the now soulless husk of the emperor which using some residual energy left in it still powers the astronomicon. This new dude then sets about with a few uber zealous chapters of marines (black termplars / blood angels ?) on finding his surviving loyal sons, and curing things such as the geneflaws of the blood angels / space wolves and salamanders / the giant gash in Guillmans throat, whilst silently guiding humanity and protecting it from external threats like he did in the days before the great crusade. This is all assuming the astronomicon doesnt just die all together in that case the reborn emperor would likely still be able to warp travel on his own, and would likely set about contacting space marine chapters and making there recruiting worlds / homeworlds as safe bastions where humanity can live independently and reestablish society and order, guarded by space marines. Eventually after collecting enough refugees these bastions can turn into training grounds for more imperial guard troops, and more space marines as there would no longer be any need for the 1000 marine limit per chapter. Humanity would essentially survive but be spread out some loyal to the old regime where the ecclesiary / high lords of terra / machnarium band together to survive. And on the other hand there'd be the pro post human group led by the emperor and his space marines, but with rising tensions between both groups, incredibly powerful armies on both and unique soldiers and weapons both sides could become armies in a hypothetical "warhammer 41k". Kind of like fantasies empire and bretonia, the oldschool imperium would have the funky tech of the machinarium and all of the old research / stc's discovered and developed before the emperors death, whilst the posthuman imperium would have the space marines and whatever new creations the emperor can come up with. Meanwhilst chaos takes gak loads of territory, Eldar / Tau manage to make a semi stable alliance with the posthuman imperium whilst both necron and tyranids attack with much more force then ever before, striking whilst the imperium is in disarray and weak. Orks would largely be the same albeit more widespread, Grey knights would likely consort with the emperor in secret and after he somehow confirms the genelink between him and there chapter would likely join the post human imperium. Dark eldar would increase there raids on now defenseless planets, and even gain a measure of respite from she who thirsts considering all the war and excess happening in the universe at large. Id really like to say something nice could happen to the eldar like maybe they manage to save Isha but lets face it nothing nice ever happens to the Eldar . Phew wall of text over
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Post by: MECID
There is one MAJOR thing I feel people are overlooking. Even with the astronomicon the infra structure of the Imperium of Man, is a mockery.
They have no way of survailing every planet and warp travel is already dangerous as it is. As far as I am aware only 2 / 3 or 3 / 4
(I am enclined to believe the first of them) of the ships make it through warp and the only reason the Imperium can fight all those wars is because
of the shear size of ressource, both manpower andrations, weapons, etc., the administratum sends that they can wage these wars.
Without the astronomicon the Emperor is emitting into the entire galaxy of man, warp travels would be even more dangerous, perhaps only 1 in a
100 ships will make it through the warp.
With so many ressource lost and the opening of the giant warp portal beneath the golden throne, which will almost double the size of the Eye of Terror.
I would say humanity stands little chance of regaining their former glory, now that the unrelenting orcs go unchecked, the tyranids still going rampant and
the Tau empire speeding up their expansions. Of course we shouldn't forget the new giant hole in reality which will spec out even more corruption than
the current Eye of Terror.
Also, with no form of warp travel. The black ships of the inquisition will not be able to gather the psykers of the many worlds of the imperium and therefor
I am enclined to be believe that the threat of planets becoming Daemon Worlds to rise significantly.
So in the end, with no central government (since the high lords are dead, as they are on terra.) the Imperium of Man would collapse together. By the
unrelenting forces attacking them along with ambitious nobels who seek to claim their own empires.
Also, even if the Emperor is reborn, before all of the above would happen) he would have to stay in the golden throne, as he is the only keeping the portal
closed and he is also the only reason there is any infrastructure in the Imperium of Man.
I hope you could manage the wall of text :b
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Post by: Psienesis
There are stable warp-routes that can be Navigated without the aid of the Astronomican. The entire Eastern Fringe of the Segmentum Ultima depends on this phenomenon, as they lie beyond the light of the Astronomican, as does the Koronus Expanse and the Jericho Reach (formerly the Jericho Sector).
Entire xeno species ply the Warp without the Astronomican (the Tau and the Eldar, for example) and do not seem to have any more trouble than Humanity does (and possibly fewer problems, in the case of the Tau).
Will the loss of the Astronomican spell the end of the Imperium? Probably not, though it does make long-distance warp travel much more difficult, as the Navigator does not have a third point to triangulate the jump with. Still, local clusters will be able to maintain shipping, trade and transport, and the known stable warp routes between distant sections of space will still be available.
If the Mechanicus and the Ecclesiarchy lose their hold on the lives and thoughts of the common Imperial citizen, it's inevitable that certain Rogue Traders will learn to make use of Eldar web-ways and Tau "warp-skimming" technologies to ply the gulfs between stars. Extrapolating from this, these technologies will, eventually, filter down to the Munitorum, the Astartes, and, finally, common Chartist captains, restoring the Imperium's ability to travel vast distances in space.
Sure, some (many) worlds will be lost, some will secede and found their own mini-Imperiums, possibly allying with Eldar or Tau xenos. Some will be devoured by the Tyranid (who prevent warp travel anyway, and yet have been defeated several times), and some will fall to the Ruinous Powers... but this does not spell the end of the Imperium.
Still, the Imperium is a feudal system. The Lord Sectors maintain an iron grip on the regions of space they are responsible for. The Space Marines maintain thousands of Fortress Worlds throughout the Imperium. The Deathwatch, just to use one as an example, often populates a Fortress World with a single Marine, for decades at a time, who holds the world against both xeno and moral threats.
The loss of the Emperor will, of course, be a crippling blow to the Imperium, but it will not likely be a fatal one. After all, the vast majority of people in the Imperium will never leave the planet of their birth, and only Navigators can see the Astronomican anyway. The disinformation fed the populace from the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy will, supported by the Arbites and the IG/PDF, in many regions, keep things under control, at least within the immediate locale.
The New Imperium that will rise from such an event will probably be a bit more technologically-based, a bit less superstitious, and perhaps, in certain areas, find allies amongst the xenos, but will not be terribly different from that which preceded it... at least not for several millennia yet to come.
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Post by: Asherian Command
ChronoCupcake wrote:My take on the whole end of days is, the emperor wont die straight away but rather ... wilt, the astronomicom dulling permanently and no more emperors tarot, random miracles or him talking to mankind
But instead we see a new individual born the 40k equivalent of fantasies Valten exalted of Sigmar, An individual with all the powers and memories of the Emperor perhaps even a birthmark of the imperial Aquila on his chest.
But the Iom would be torn about if they should accept this individual as the Emperor reincarnated or just a powerful heretic, perfectly fits the Grimdark nature of 40k, eventually after failing to seize power from the high lords of terra who are still adamant on worshiping the now soulless husk of the emperor which using some residual energy left in it still powers the astronomicon.
This new dude then sets about with a few uber zealous chapters of marines (black termplars / blood angels ?) on finding his surviving loyal sons, and curing things such as the geneflaws of the blood angels / space wolves and salamanders / the giant gash in Guillmans throat, whilst silently guiding humanity and protecting it from external threats like he did in the days before the great crusade.
This is all assuming the astronomicon doesnt just die all together in that case the reborn emperor would likely still be able to warp travel on his own, and would likely set about contacting space marine chapters and making there recruiting worlds / homeworlds as safe bastions where humanity can live independently and reestablish society and order, guarded by space marines. Eventually after collecting enough refugees these bastions can turn into training grounds for more imperial guard troops, and more space marines as there would no longer be any need for the 1000 marine limit per chapter.
Humanity would essentially survive but be spread out some loyal to the old regime where the ecclesiary / high lords of terra / machnarium band together to survive. And on the other hand there'd be the pro post human group led by the emperor and his space marines, but with rising tensions between both groups, incredibly powerful armies on both and unique soldiers and weapons both sides could become armies in a hypothetical "warhammer 41k". Kind of like fantasies empire and bretonia, the oldschool imperium would have the funky tech of the machinarium and all of the old research / stc's discovered and developed before the emperors death, whilst the posthuman imperium would have the space marines and whatever new creations the emperor can come up with.
Meanwhilst chaos takes gak loads of territory, Eldar / Tau manage to make a semi stable alliance with the posthuman imperium whilst both necron and tyranids attack with much more force then ever before, striking whilst the imperium is in disarray and weak. Orks would largely be the same albeit more widespread, Grey knights would likely consort with the emperor in secret and after he somehow confirms the genelink between him and there chapter would likely join the post human imperium. Dark eldar would increase there raids on now defenseless planets, and even gain a measure of respite from she who thirsts considering all the war and excess happening in the universe at large. Id really like to say something nice could happen to the eldar like maybe they manage to save Isha but lets face it nothing nice ever happens to the Eldar .
Phew wall of text over
agreed.
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Post by: ZacktheChaosChild
Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.
They're dying. They can't hold forever.
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.
They're dying. They can't hold forever.
Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.
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Post by: FourCartridge
But Humanity cannot survive with blind baseless devotion to a way of life that focuses on death, destruction, and apathy. Sure the Emperor may be helpful to humanity, I think that humankind could live on. As the last poster said, nothing lasts forever.
Also, since this wasn't replied to, I'll restate my opinion the Emperor is just a glorified murderer. As one famous person said, "Never think that war, no matter how justified or necessary, is not a crime." He practically killed more people than all of history's dictators and tyrants combined. I'm starting to think he, in his quest to better humanity, broke everything.
39916
Post by: Micromegas
So what happens when the Will of the Emperor fades? Is there a huge boom and shock-wave of built up psychic energy that blows half the galaxy up or is there just a wet fart?
I don't believe the Emperor "broke everything" by trying to fix everything. I mean, things surely are a hell of a mess. But, I don't think he broke everything. If he hadn't re-conquered and re-united Man then where would they be currently? Segmented away from one another in clusters, segregated and devoid of any real power. At least now they have enough soul and meat to soak up the advances of their enemies -- for now. Either way, Humanity is boned. I think the Imperium has a good chance of survival, nonetheless.
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Post by: Brother Coa
FourCartridge wrote:But Humanity cannot survive with blind baseless devotion to a way of life that focuses on death, destruction, and apathy. Sure the Emperor may be helpful to humanity, I think that humankind could live on. As the last poster said, nothing lasts forever.
Also, since this wasn't replied to, I'll restate my opinion the Emperor is just a glorified murderer. As one famous person said, "Never think that war, no matter how justified or necessary, is not a crime." He practically killed more people than all of history's dictators and tyrants combined. I'm starting to think he, in his quest to better humanity, broke everything.
You are mistaken, even if the Emperor dies by some miracle you think that the High Lords will ever inform Imperium's populace on this? Even if they tell that the religion will only strengthen as a whole. Just look at Christianity, after Christ's death the religion only strengthen.
And if you think that the Emperor is murderor what about Goge Vandir? Chaos Gods? Orks? Eldar? Necrons? Dark Eldar? Tyranids? various planetary Governors?
And you can take your "famous person" words and tell them to an Ork or a Tyranids and we shall se if they will listen, you can't use Human philosophy for alien races. Because they all see us as prey or animal - not equals. And if I rob a bank and shot several people in your name are you responsible? The Emperor didn't kill anyone in my knowledge, he even thought that people can be saved no matter what. Just look at Horus, he didn't kill him until the last moment. He did a wonderful and god-like job: unifying the Humanity as a whole, it's not his fault that we have allow ourself to be in this position once again. Only this time there won't be an Emperor to save us once again.
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Post by: Conservationist
I suppose it could last for a few thousands years more, it is hard to wipe out a race that has spread like a plague and inhabit most parts of the galaxy. It is just like trying to kill every cockroach in the world, impossible. We can run, we can hide and we breed like rats.
39927
Post by: Cobourn
While I posed the question of whether the IoM can hold on and survive another millennia, it was quite interesting that some of us believe that man’s very existence is at stake, should the Emperor and indeed his empire fall. However, are we not conceding to a one-dimensional level of thinking?
I mean does the fate of the Emperor run deeply parallel with deciding the future of mankind itself?
Man existed before the empire was created and in the 40K universe has colonised vast areas of the MW galaxy; so much so that the Administration can’t keep up. In the 21st century, just one earth-threatening disaster could have written off mankind – but now with the spread of humans into the vast cosmos of space makes such a task virtually impossible does it not? We are adaptable, we are natural survivors, we pose ample intelligence to withstand this futuristic world and our own ‘animal’ instinct has made us worthy adversaries against our enemies – some of which want to actually corrupt us for their own power battles.
The Eldar whilst a more ancient race than ourselves are likely (as has been seen before) side with us should anything threaten the balance of the galaxy.
The Orks and Chaos may field large armies and go around terrorising and taking over sectors, but these surges are not organised and over time exhaust their resources and so the advantage of surprise, numbers and speed is lost. Meanwhile, the defenders (humans in particular) have the strategy and know-how to regroup, re-organise and then take the fight back.
It is becoming quite clear that we might have to give up territory like Sir Monty advised - we could Fall back and consolidate the star systems which IoM can defend easily. The paradox is, by using an orderly retreat and fall back upon ammo dumps etc – we could come back in sufficient strength and quite possibly take over the old contested ground once more and then succeed in taking over more of the galaxy than mankind ever did before.
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Post by: SilverMK2
Psienesis wrote:Entire xeno species ply the Warp without the Astronomican (the Tau and the Eldar, for example) and do not seem to have any more trouble than Humanity does (and possibly fewer problems, in the case of the Tau).
Just to mention that the Eldar do not use the warp due to the threat they are under because of slaanesh - they use the webway. Ships transporting Eldar come under increased attack from warp creatures as their souls are especially desired.
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Post by: Swiftblade
Eh, I think it will die, but not by Chaos's hand. I think Tyranids will be the eventual downfall of not just the IoM,but the enire Galaxy. Shadow in the Warp not only hurts the IoM and Eldar, it hurts Chao's abilities too. They need the warp just as bad as everyone else. The Tyranids are, I believe, the only species who does not need the warp to travel or communicate (Correct me if I'm wrong). Plus, since the Hive mind is a metaphysical entity, you can't kill it, only sever its connections to certain parts of the Galaxy.
Since scientists in the IoM think that the worst of Tyranids is yet to come, and Levithan is kicking the ass of every species out there... I think Tyranids have pretty well screwed the entire Galaxy, maybe even the Chaos God's themselves (Although I am still unsure if the Tyranids could even actually attack the plane that the Chaos God's live upon).
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Post by: Matt070
Tyranids will end it.. but im biased , or possibly chaos or orks at a push, but my best guess would be Tyranids in ending the Imperium of Man, but humanity? it depends as was said if they can attack the Chaos gods, and if you count cultists and traitor guards as still being part of humanity.
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Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Tyranids ending life in the galaxy will depend on how they play the cards they have at the moment. If they continue fighting fringe worlds and small civilizations and the Orks for biomass then that will be good. They cant take on any species home area (except the Eldar because they don't have one anymore and are scattered.) They need to isolate the most fortified areas and cut them off and starve them out. If they were to attack terra now..... Leviathan would be spanked..... hard.
SO if these events were to unfold in this way, no the Imperium will die in the next 1000 years.
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Post by: ZacktheChaosChild
Asherian Command wrote:ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.
They're dying. They can't hold forever.
Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.
Why not Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons? Are they not also "life"? I think Eldar would survive and Necrons would just go back to sleep. Chaos will never "die" because they are not life in the corporeal sense. As long as there are humans (or other human-like people) there will be Chaos, as it is just a representation and embodiment of human emotion. A black hole will not simply suck that away.
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Post by: demonicjapsel
IoM will get eaten sooner or later. The only question is when will that happen
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Post by: Swiftblade
Hm, just looked at the 40k wikia today at the Nids article, apparently IoM Psykers are predicting a much, much larger wave of Tyranids after Levithan (Which is a pretty huge Hive Fleet by itself)
According to the page, it will require the IoM to moblize 500% of its normal military strength to fight it off. Its a strange number if you ask me, but if that stat is true, that means pretty much every man, woman, and child will have to fight to successfully fend off the Tyranids when the next wave comes.
And if the next wave is that huge and there is still more hive fleets out there... well, then IoM is pretty screwed.
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Post by: Asherian Command
You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable. Automatically Appended Next Post: ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Asherian Command wrote:ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.
They're dying. They can't hold forever.
Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.
Why not Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons? Are they not also "life"? I think Eldar would survive and Necrons would just go back to sleep. Chaos will never "die" because they are not life in the corporeal sense. As long as there are humans (or other human-like people) there will be Chaos, as it is just a representation and embodiment of human emotion. A black hole will not simply suck that away.
Actually chaos is representation of all life. Not just humans.But chaos will end. Not by humans, not by other life, but by something else.
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Post by: Swiftblade
Asherian Command wrote:You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable.
I know, I was stating it as a hypothetical. Just throwing it out there as some brain food for everyone to chew on.
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Post by: Matt070
Asherian Command wrote:You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable.
True, but i think it would take all the races working together, or at least a large portion of them to completely stop the Tyranids, but that is doubtful as they will always fight each other, an alliance, of say, IoM, Eldar and Tau might be able to hold off the next wave if it comes in the next 1000 years, but even then they will still have to fight against Chaos, Necrons, Orks and Dark Eldar and cant see them stopping just because an even bigger fleet of hungry-super-space-reptile-bugs has shown up
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Post by: Exopheric
"When the Golden Throne fails and the last flicker of life in the Emperor's body gutters out, the rule of Mankind will falter and His realm will splinter into desolate isles, soon to founder in an ocean of darkness. The dawn of the 41st millennium is the last stand of the Imperium of Man. Shall a new day come, after the return of the Old Night? There are many who look for hope, but none can say that they have found it and yet speak the truth."
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Post by: Asherian Command
yeah but once the astronomicon is gone the tyranids will not want to hunt down the humans seeing them useless, and goes towards their next targets. Eye of terror. Yummy.
Apparently I have a split personality O.o
Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
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Post by: Matt070
Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
They went completely around a Necron system thats called fear.
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Post by: Matt070
Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
They went completely around a Necron system thats called fear.
Or the sat nav broke?
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
They went completely around a Necron system thats called fear.
Or the sat nav broke?
*sighs*
Yes instead of going straight they made a left turn. then another left turn. Then made a left turn after going through 12 systems. Yes the giant gaping hole in the middle of tyranid invasion is nothing but a wrong turn.
40271
Post by: Matt070
So glad you see sense now
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
They went completely around a Necron system thats called fear.
Or the sat nav broke?
*sighs*
Yes instead of going straight they made a left turn. then another left turn. Then made a left turn after going through 12 systems. Yes the giant gaping hole in the middle of tyranid invasion is nothing but a wrong turn.
The Tyranid dont understand fear as we know it while in control of the hivemind. They do not fight necrons because it is a waste of rescources. Although corny space robots are pretty scary .
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Post by: AlexTheTitan
Lord Graveline wrote:The Emperor will eventually succumb to his wounds. It's inevitable -- it's fairly common knowledge (amongst players -- not Imperial citizens) that the Golden Throne is failing due to a lack of proper maintenance (and not that they dont care, they just dont know how!). When he dies, the astronomican will collapse causing the failure of psychic communication and stable warp travel. Humanity will likely fracture and the Imperium will collapse into a massive and very destructive civil war. There will become a new dark age throughout the Imperium and it's likely that billions, if not trillions of lives will be lost.
From there, there are 3 possible outcomes.
1. There species of Homo Erectus will be destroyed and Humanity will be extinct. Haha, not bloody likely! Just like 'Emperors Faithful' I put my trust in cold steel, human resolve and good old perseverance (with a bayonet in hand, of course!)
2. We become a broken species on the brink of extinction like those pansy Eldar. The difference between them and us though is that as Humans, we dont have the patience (or the lifespan) to train our warriors for centuries and we're much more headstrong and impatient. This can be a good thing when you need to make up lost ground! See, we rarely have this "I'll just do a little bit at a time to help my species" mindset. Humans are much more "OMG, I need to be remembered forever so I need to do ALL OF THIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSS in, what!? 50 years!? I'd better get started RIGHT NOW!" So we'll do what Humans do best! Breed like bunnies, put our faith in the Emperor returning to save us and charge in against anything that stood in our way! . . . Unfortunately as Humans, this also means that we may attack each other, but fingers crossed we could use our common hate of everyone else to help unite us lol.
3. Definitely the most likely. In these darkest of days, and maybe even after number 2 comes to some form of fruition, the Emperor will be reborn. Just like in the days of old, before the official founding of the Imperium when the Emperor was born from the souls of the Shamans, the Emperors soul will one day find its way through the warp and be born in the material realm to once again lead Humanity to a new Golden Age.
The Emperor Protects. Now. Forever. Always.
Humanity shall never be defeated.
I may just not understand you correctly but don't you mean homo sapiens? Homo erectus is extinct IRL. We are Homo sapiens.
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Post by: hehe FAIL!
Im in the 'Man will ally' boat. Im pretty sure Tau and Eldar will unite and IoM will try 2 fite back but will eventually die or surennder and beg to be part of this 2-way ownage.
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
hehe FAIL! wrote:Im in the 'Man will ally' boat. Im pretty sure Tau and Eldar will unite and IoM will try 2 fite back but will eventually die or surennder and beg to be part of this 2-way ownage.
Doubtfull, they may ally but it wont be because they lost to the alliance it will be because they want to erase the other xenos first and save them for later.
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Post by: Brother Coa
hehe FAIL! wrote:Im in the 'Man will ally' boat. Im pretty sure Tau and Eldar will unite and IoM will try 2 fite back but will eventually die or surennder and beg to be part of this 2-way ownage.
Are you insane? Eldar are nearly died out and Tau only have 20 planets under their control. Imperium could defeat them using only numbers on their side. Their best chance for survival is uniting with Mankind, with will happened in the end giving where the plot is going...
21946
Post by: ZacktheChaosChild
Asherian Command wrote:You forget all races will also fight the Tyranid swarm as well, it will not just be the imperium.
Plus Wikia's aren't always reliable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Asherian Command wrote:ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Chaos will destroy the Imperium and what's left of its pathetic corpse god.
They're dying. They can't hold forever.
Neither can Chaos dude. All things come to an end. Even Chaos has an ending. Like to see what happens when a black hole comes out of nowhere and devours the chaos gods. Sorry but all matter is sucked in. everything has matter in it, even chaos has matter. So say goodbye to Tzeench, Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Of course the imperium of man ignores black holes somehow!
Anyway it is also said by Tzeench that all things change even he will die.
And humanity will survive. All life can endure. Except Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons.
I am asking you why. Why and how will it end if it exists as long as there is life with emotions?
Why not Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons? Are they not also "life"? I think Eldar would survive and Necrons would just go back to sleep. Chaos will never "die" because they are not life in the corporeal sense. As long as there are humans (or other human-like people) there will be Chaos, as it is just a representation and embodiment of human emotion. A black hole will not simply suck that away.
Actually chaos is representation of all life. Not just humans.But chaos will end. Not by humans, not by other life, but by something else.
25543
Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
Brother Coa wrote:hehe FAIL! wrote:Im in the 'Man will ally' boat. Im pretty sure Tau and Eldar will unite and IoM will try 2 fite back but will eventually die or surennder and beg to be part of this 2-way ownage.
Are you insane? Eldar are nearly died out and Tau only have 20 planets under their control. Imperium could defeat them using only numbers on their side. Their best chance for survival is uniting with Mankind, with will happened in the end giving where the plot is going...
tau have 26 worlds under their control
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:Brother Coa wrote:hehe FAIL! wrote:Im in the 'Man will ally' boat. Im pretty sure Tau and Eldar will unite and IoM will try 2 fite back but will eventually die or surennder and beg to be part of this 2-way ownage.
Are you insane? Eldar are nearly died out and Tau only have 20 planets under their control. Imperium could defeat them using only numbers on their side. Their best chance for survival is uniting with Mankind, with will happened in the end giving where the plot is going...
tau have 26 worlds under their control
And? the "man will ally boat" is still sinking....
You know, IoM got millions of worlds.
The offer of a "team effort" of 11+x craftworlds plus some Tau septs isn't convincing in that light.
Maybe a local alliance, but even then Tau aren't mobile enough.
20564
Post by: Owain
Emperors Faithful wrote:GW seems to have built up the 'End Times' into a sort of Make or Break for the Imperium of Man. I'll put my trust in cold steel and human resolve.
This. At some point the Emperor will have to abandon his corporeal form and when that happens he'll be a powerful Warp entity. If the Chaos Gods are sustained by their worshippers, one can onlyimagine how much more powerful the Emperor will be as a similar entity.
39927
Post by: Cobourn
The biggest threat to the IoM is Man himself, not your Chaos, Orcs, Eldar, tyranids, or even your TAU.
Should the Emperor 'abandon' his savaged human body and become a powerful Warp entity- this would radically change the grand scheme of things i.e. it would suprise most of us i.e. the fate of the Imperium may suffer a twisted outcome.
Should the Emperor become a Warp Entity - this is a dangerous thought - we are talking about a human summoning such unimaginable power of epic proportions...
A man with too much power can turn insane, if not suffer severe tests of corruption. Their very existance and purpose could be changed just to suit their own cravings.
Such total power could challenge and oust even the Chaos Gods out of their own thrones of power. Protect the galaxy - huh - he could end up destroying it and the IoM along with it.
40749
Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy
The Emperor was already ridiculously powerful while he was walking around. He apparently simultaneously powered the Astronomicon while being capable of amazing feats such as humbling an entire Legion of Space Marines at once, or, indeed, destroying Horus mind and soul. I doubt the sort of power he'd be imbued with would radically change his goal of protecting humanity, especially considering he's already endured millenia of agony for mankind.
21853
Post by: mattyrm
Humans breed like rats, we will always conquer!
Just put a hive world on the dole and within twenty years we would have enough people to wipe the tyranids out with sticks.
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Post by: Harriticus
xXSir MontyXx wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
They went completely around a Necron system thats called fear.
Or the sat nav broke?
*sighs*
Yes instead of going straight they made a left turn. then another left turn. Then made a left turn after going through 12 systems. Yes the giant gaping hole in the middle of tyranid invasion is nothing but a wrong turn.
The Tyranid dont understand fear as we know it while in control of the hivemind. They do not fight necrons because it is a waste of rescources. Although corny space robots are pretty scary .
This.
The Tyranids aren't afraid of them, the Hivemind thinks logically. There would be no point in confronting the Necrons then as it didn't serve their purpose of consuming biomatter. If the Necrons were to force a confrontation or prove too much of an obstacle then the Tyranids would engage.
If the Necrons wipe out the majority of life in the galaxy before the Tyranid main fleet arrives however I can see the Hivemind just skipping the Milky Way and moving onto the next.
Anyway, the military power of the Imperium can not be understated. They're fighting something like a 10,000 front war right now, but if a serious threat emerged to the core worlds they would like undergo a strategic retreat. To break the Imperium you must break Terra, and good luck to any force in the Galaxy in managing to do that.
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Post by: PrometheusZero
Even if the Imperium of Man is broken, there will still be pockets of Humanity left struggling for survival in a cold dark Universe.
War....
War never changes....
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
PrometheusZero wrote:Even if the Imperium of Man is broken, there will still be pockets of Humanity left struggling for survival in a cold dark Universe.
War....
War never changes....
Stop! Your fallout reference has violated the law! Pay the court a fine or serve your sentence peacefully.
Anyways this is very true, the Imperium is just a government. Bring the fall of the Imperium and you are just going to have a lot of pissed off humans.
39927
Post by: Cobourn
OF ALL THE HIVE FLEETS IN OUR GALAXY THAT THE IMPERIUM KNOWS ABOUT.....
THERE IS ALWAYS ONE... THAT THEY DONT...
I think the Imperium will need all the friends it has got in the late 40th millenium. No fewer than 13 Hive Fleets were spotted on the Eastern fringes of the galaxy.
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Cobourn wrote:OF ALL THE HIVE FLEETS IN OUR GALAXY THAT THE IMPERIUM KNOWS ABOUT.....
THERE IS ALWAYS ONE... THAT THEY DONT...
I think the Imperium will need all the friends it has got in the late 40th millenium. No fewer than 13 Hive Fleets were spotted on the Eastern fringes of the galaxy.
Leave your caps lock on???
HIve fleets that have been spotted other than leviathan are not on the same scale as the 3 main the imperium have dealt with (leviathan, kraken, behemoth)
These that you speak of are splinter fleets left over from battles where the tyranid were scattered. However these fleets do become quite a handful if left unchecked.
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Post by: An0maly1
Cobourn wrote:[[Image:AOI]]
History has a habit of repeating itself; The Age of Old Earth is known as the time from the dawn of mankind to the founding of the Imperium. Cities such as Atlantys and Nova Yourk are cited as being the most legendary and ancient cities of Old Earth. Nations known as Jermani, Merica, Britania, and Bania are said to have prospered and wilted during this time.
Throughout history, all famous civilisations are destroyed.
The Imperium was founded ten thousand years ago and it is currently ruled by the heavy hand, of the High Lords of Terra and though the voice of the ‘immortal’ god-emperor. Can this Empire/civilisation stand for even another Millennia? - Especially when our world’s ancient nuclear powers, glorious warrior Primarchs all succumbed to their deadly fate amongst the galactic battlefield?
Yes but taking it from history, out of the ashes of destruction, something better arrived. And if you read the fluff, there is the implication of that being destined to happen again. Theres even a secret society that has plans for how to resurrect the emperor when he dies in all his glory.
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Post by: Cobourn
msg for xXSir MontyXx
Caps lock was left on, for effect like the movie dante's peak - but dont worry about it -it obviously didnt work.
As for unchecked Hive fleets - I am saying they 'are a handful' period. And thats the problem here. Hive fleets have the capacity to grow to immense sizes and maybe create the 'big one' that the everyone is expecting. For that reason alone, 'Splinter groups' can not be ignored; to do so would be folly.
Msg for An0maly1 - You say out of the ashes of destruction something better arrives - how can you be so sure? Such an event has yet to be written.
I am not saying you are wrong, but I would like you to consider that the re-birth of the Emperor (if it is possible) does not necessarily mean the continuality of the Imperium. One all powerful man may survive, but 'his' Empire surviving another millennia is another thing. For that reason, I do not believe that the God emperor being re-born will necessarily decide the fate of the Imperium.
My original post, however, leaves the debate open. So I can not discount what either you (Sir Monty) and An0maly1 said - both are worthy arguments.
40698
Post by: An0maly1
Asherian Command wrote:Matt070 wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Anyway the tyranids would get owned by the Necrons. They literally Fear the Necrons above everything else.
I dont think its fear, just difficult to digest..
They went completely around a Necron system thats called fear.
The tyranids don't speak english, something tells me they didn't give a damn what it was called, they probably don't even know the names of the planets they take.
The tyranids have no interest in the necrons. And why would they? They only conquer to eat, to them the necrons have no food, so why waste time and energy on a prizeless venture. Automatically Appended Next Post: xXSir MontyXx wrote:hehe FAIL! wrote:Im in the 'Man will ally' boat. Im pretty sure Tau and Eldar will unite and IoM will try 2 fite back but will eventually die or surennder and beg to be part of this 2-way ownage.
Doubtfull, they may ally but it wont be because they lost to the alliance it will be because they want to erase the other xenos first and save them for later.
When you think about it, the tau and eldar allying would make sense. The eldar would never allow themselves to be assimilated. And they have zero reason whatsoever to reallly despise each other.
22413
Post by: mwnciboo
Yeah, easily. Humans love fighting, thats why Humankind has never know peace. Its part of our psyche and we are quite good at it, good at fighting leads to winning, winning leads to dominance, dominance leads to survival.
Orks are over grown fungus, Necrons are metal skeletons but don't have any emotion, Tyranids are insects, the Tau are just plain weak, DE are into S&M. The Eldar are just a bit whimsical. Chaos is quite a foe and a threat.
The Imperium kicks ass, it literally is a Xenophobic Gun toting Bully that doesn't take gak from anyone.
40698
Post by: An0maly1
mwnciboo wrote:Yeah, easily. Humans love fighting, thats why Humankind has never know peace. Its part of our psyche and we are quite good at it, good at fighting leads to winning, winning leads to dominance, dominance leads to survival.
Orks are over grown fungus, Necrons are metal skeletons but don't have any emotion, Tyranids are insects, the Tau are just plain weak, DE are into S&M. The Eldar are just a bit whimsical. Chaos is quite a foe and a threat.
The Imperium kicks ass, it literally is a Xenophobic Gun toting Bully that doesn't take gak from anyone.
Yah really, because for the same price as a land raider you can get a full squad of three broadsides. I'd take the broadsides any day.
39927
Post by: Cobourn
Ignoring for a second, strength in numbers, vehicles and Titans etc, is it the Eldar whom possess the most powerful weapons & technology against their common foe, the Imperium and the Orks?
The Eldar also seem to possess a mastery in the art of close melee combat which often surpasses what the enemy often put in the field. Deadly examples such as the close combat melee weapon - the 'Harlequin's Kiss' and also 'Mandiblasters' used by Striking Scorpions are equally unqiue and fearful weapons. Even Eldar armour is tough.
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
Cobourn wrote:msg for xXSir MontyXx
Caps lock was left on, for effect like the movie dante's peak - but dont worry about it -it obviously didnt work.
As for unchecked Hive fleets - I am saying they 'are a handful' period. And thats the problem here. Hive fleets have the capacity to grow to immense sizes and maybe create the 'big one' that the everyone is expecting. For that reason alone, 'Splinter groups' can not be ignored; to do so would be folly.
Msg for An0maly1 - You say out of the ashes of destruction something better arrives - how can you be so sure? Such an event has yet to be written.
I am not saying you are wrong, but I would like you to consider that the re-birth of the Emperor (if it is possible) does not necessarily mean the continuality of the Imperium. One all powerful man may survive, but 'his' Empire surviving another millennia is another thing. For that reason, I do not believe that the God emperor being re-born will necessarily decide the fate of the Imperium.
My original post, however, leaves the debate open. So I can not discount what either you (Sir Monty) and An0maly1 said - both are worthy arguments.
Luckily Tyranid's leave no ashes  .
The Imperium knows better than to leave these fleets unchecked. As for them going into other territory that's up to that race. The Tau were definitely trying but were going to get erased from the milky way until the Necrons saved their sorry hides (yet another reason for me to dislike the space robots).
20564
Post by: Owain
I think the Imperium's a pretty cool guy. Eh kills xenos and doesn't afraid of anything.
32783
Post by: bloodjunkey
Seriously the Imperium has a 99% chance of being  by the nids, 50% with Chaos, and about 20% with everyone else
37068
Post by: Conservationist
Even if the Emperor survives for another thousand years, by then i expect plenty of necs and nids to be in the milky way and the borders of the IoM to be pushed back drastically due to the sheer numbers of these 2 races. I think the Necrons would get in the way of the Nids, with the nids being all sentient and fleshy and good for target practice and the necs wanting to scour all life. The Necs would slow the nids down and annihilate most of the IoM before the nids have their turn.
Only race that would not try to destroy the IoM outright are the Tau, i'm sure they accept any stragglers or soldiers that are willing to embrace the greater good. They need all the extra manpower they can get if they are going to fend of necs, nids, orks and a variety of other enemies afterall.
Whether the Emprah dies or lives or another related miracle happens, the IoM, IMO is on a downward spiral that would result in its fragmentation.
40749
Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy
What's with the idea that the Tyranids are such a great threat to the Imperium? The further they push into the Imperium the more likely they are to run into other xenos, and more importantly, Orks and Necrons which seem especially capable of defeating (or in the case of the Orks, at least stalemating them). Sure, they're a threat, but the big one? I don't buy it, not least because if they exhaust their forces then they've lost. The other factions can recover losses (men and material) whereas the Tyranids can't unless they take the planet.
By the way, the Necrons don't want to exterminate all life (well, some might, but not all). They exist to further the goals of the C'tan (i.e. feeding on the living races), which involves farming the living rather than exterminating them.
Personally, I think it's likely that the Imperium will endure. The more ground it loses, the smaller the border it has to defend, the shorter its supply lines, the closer to the Astronomicon the outlying parts are and the more likely it is that its enemies will run into and fight each other. Tyranids will get bogged down, the Necrons don't seem to truly want to destroy the Imperium (at least not yet) and the Orks will likely hit into non-Imperial factions. In my opinion the greatest threat comes from the Chaos factions. If a Black Crusade breaks out of the Cadian system, Abaddon could possibly rally even more forces to his banner to tear the Imperium apart (alternatively, his forces could fracture rather than stay focussed).
20564
Post by: Owain
All it would take to put the Imperium back on top is a reorganization of the Mechanicum's command structure.
39927
Post by: Cobourn
Hey SomeRandomEvilGuy - Thanks for your input regarding the Necrons.
You mentioned something about giving up ground to help tighten up supply lines and strengthen defences. While I agree with this stance, I believe the High Lords of Terra would believe such a suggestion as...unforgivable. Even if such a plan was conceived - Where in the galaxy would you start withdrawing your forces?
Well I will tell you - Under the intuitive guidance of the Imperial navigators, most ships are able to traverse distances of tens of thousands of light years in a single jump. Perceived journey time is 1-4 days per thousand light years, equivalent to 1-6 months of real time. Even so, a journey from one edge of the galaxy to the other would take between 85 and 510 months of real time. For these reasons, many of the 1 million-or-so worlds, in the Imperium remain are self-governing. The total Range of the Astronomican (without warp storm interference) is around 50 thousand light years, with Earth around approximately 30 thousand light years from the centre of the Galactic west, which means that the Astronomican does not cover the eastern fringe of the galaxy at all. The Empire has even lost contact with old conquered imperial worlds for generations...
As mentioned in an earlier post of mine, by trying to control such a vast empire, the administrative and logistical demands currently posed on the Administratum would in reality have to limit the number of combat troops put in the field. The billions-strong manpower "pipeline" would be an "invisible horde of people going here and there but seemingly never arriving" because of the vast distances etc.
So this means your probably looking at less than a quarter of the total imperial army force (and much much less for Astartes legions) engaged at any one time against the enemy. Because of this; our forces that are engaged in the fighting against your Orks, Chaos and other horrible bests, are suffering probably 80 percent casualties. A prime example of this damaging concept is the Ultramarines fighting against the Hive fleet Behemoth and losing an entire company.
With the math explained, it might be logical to abandon some of the sectors of the Eastern fringe.
Over a closer defendable area, the IoM could make more effective manpower and hold in check, any number of assaults (even combined) by Chaos, along with Necs, nids and Orks
I realise the empire cant be everywhere at once - but that is the problem isn’t it? The empire, even with the immortal emperor still alive or dead is likely to see the Empire fragemented like Conservationist suggested earlier.
40749
Post by: SomeRandomEvilGuy
Cobourn wrote:
You mentioned something about giving up ground to help tighten up supply lines and strengthen defences. While I agree with this stance, I believe the High Lords of Terra would believe such a suggestion as...unforgivable. Even if such a plan was conceived - Where in the galaxy would you start withdrawing your forces?
I'm not saying that they would willingly do so. But if, say, more Hive Fleets come (much though I dislike the Tyranids in many ways. Seriously, as the 'ultimate' threat that many take them to be they're remarkably boring and unorignal. Chaos, at least, has personality and class.) and devour a few worlds, and the Orks go on a few 'Waaaghs!', myriad minor races such as the Tau expand, Chaos gains ground and so on and so forth, then the borders of the Imperium could be significantly pushed back. In such circumstances, exponentially more men could be used to defend the shrinking borders due to less strain on the supply chains. Willingly chosen or not, there would be benefit from such a tactic (especially if the number of Space Marine Chapters stays the same and are allocating new homeworlds or rebuilt (or new ones Founded), since somehow they seem to be a major power in the Imperium).
With the math explained, it might be logical to abandon some of the sectors of the Eastern fringe.
I can see that (although Ultramar, for instance, is supposed to be prosperous - such sectors may give more to the Imperium than they are a drain on its logistics).
Over a closer defendable area, the IoM could make more effective manpower and hold in check, any number of assaults (even combined) by Chaos, along with Necs, nids and Orks
Not combined, but I see your point.
I realise the empire cant be everywhere at once - but that is the problem isn’t it? The empire, even with the immortal emperor still alive or dead is likely to see the Empire fragemented like Conservationist suggested earlier.
If I recall correctly, wasn't the size of the Imperium at the zenith of the Great Crusade greater than it is now? Since during and after the Horus Heresy the Imperium was greatly weakened and under attack from myriad factions. If the Emperor is reborn and can somehow seal or stabilise the Webway Gate on Terra, then I suspect his influence could turn the tide.
Hey to you too.
31733
Post by: Brother Coa
bloodjunkey wrote:Seriously the Imperium has a 99% chance of being by the nids, 50% with Chaos, and about 20% with everyone else
I would say that Imperium has 100% of chance to purge the galaxy of all the traitors, xenos and mutant scum.
All you need is a little faith and a loaded gun 
40271
Post by: Matt070
Brother Coa wrote:bloodjunkey wrote:Seriously the Imperium has a 99% chance of being by the nids, 50% with Chaos, and about 20% with everyone else
I would say that Imperium has 100% of chance to purge the galaxy of all the traitors, xenos and mutant scum.
All you need is a little faith and a loaded gun
A veeery big gun
41010
Post by: taylor048
Its only a matter of time before ork's Waaagh! their way to victory over the whole galaxy!!!
37068
Post by: Conservationist
The orks will not be victorious! NEVERRR!
40131
Post by: Luna Dragon
The Imperium can survive for several more Millennias. (Is that a proper word  ) It will be defeat one day, it's just going to take a very very very very very long time. As long as Space Marines defending it.
41517
Post by: jelisi
FourCartridge wrote:As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined.
Without the emporor (emperor preserve us) allmost all humans would turn into chaos portals and everything would be lost....
I think, if they manage to keep the emperor alive they will, otherwise not.
40131
Post by: Luna Dragon
jelisi wrote:FourCartridge wrote:As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined.
Without the emporor (emperor preserve us) allmost all humans would turn into chaos portals and everything would be lost....
I think, if they manage to keep the emperor alive they will, otherwise not.
Space Marines don't count as human human. Do they?
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.
40131
Post by: Luna Dragon
Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.
But they are super human human not human human.
41517
Post by: jelisi
Luna Dragon wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.
But they are super human human not human human.
You are making it complicated...
17923
Post by: Asherian Command
jelisi wrote:Luna Dragon wrote:Asherian Command wrote:Space marines are still human.
Even with that pyschological training they are still human,
Grey Knights are true super humans.
Custodes are super super humans.
Primarchs super super super humans.
But they are super human human not human human.
You are making it complicated...
Ahhh that makes no sense.
40131
Post by: Luna Dragon
36011
Post by: xXSir MontyXx
As much as I hate to be called a heretic, I'm starting to think Humanity was worse off under the Emperors guidance. Creating super-soldiers was pretty much a bad idea in itself, especially with corruptibility to Chaos. The warp storms only appeared after the Heresy IIRC, and in his quest to "unite" humanity, he killed more people than all of history's dictators combined
Only killed that many people because there are more people available to be killed. Say if the Emperor began his crusades on current planet earth. and 5% of the current population was against him and were killed. That is 300,000,000 people if my math is correct and the current population is around 6 billion. However the population of the IoM is not 6 billion........ it is a heck of a lot more. SO 5% of that........... is also a heck of a lot more.
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