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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2014
Embrace Chaos
Announcing Black Crusade, a Warhammer 40,000 Roleplaying Game
Black Crusade | Published 25 February 2011 Rating 0 votes
In its hubris, Mankind claims dominion over the galaxy. However, their realm is naught but a few flickering candles in a vast and hungry darkness.
– A Treatise on the End of the Imperium, denounced and burned in 800.M41
It is the 41st millennium, a future in which the vast Imperium of Man stretches light-years across the galaxy. The wildly popular Warhammer 40,000 universe is one of constant strife; for untold billions, merely to be born is to be condemned to a lifetime of cruel suffering under an unforgiving and draconian regime. Only a select few in positions of power possess limited freedom: the Inquisitors who hunt heretics, the Rogue Traders who gather wealth, and the Deathwatch Space Marines who combat the alien threat. Science and technology offer little promise of relief; too much has been lost since the Dark Age of Technology, and all that is left goes to fuel the Imperium’s mighty war machine. It is a universe of grim darkness.
Fantasy Flight Games is proud to announce Black Crusade, the fourth standalone RPG in our popular Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay line! This remarkable experience offers players a new perspective on the conflict between the Imperium of Man and the forces of Chaos by delivering the unprecedented opportunity to play as a Disciple of the Dark Gods, whether as a Chaos Space Marine or a human Servant of Chaos.
Submit to your new masters
The intoxicating lure of Chaos leads untold millions down the path of corruption, and the noblest of intentions offers little protection against its dark influence. A soldier’s bloodlust, a politician's ambition, a lover’s desire, and even a mother’s whispered prayer over her feverish child – they are all the playthings of the Dark Gods. Why resist? Wealth, power, and happiness await those who serve the Ruinous Powers, and the only price is your humanity.
Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch each portray loyalty to the Imperium from multiple perspectives. Throughout them all, however, one common factor is Chaos: the ubiquitous antagonist responsible for much of what defines this immersive setting. But with Black Crusade, players can examine this exciting universe through an entirely new lens. Who are the characters, and what set them on the path of corruption? Are they willingly in league with the enemies of humanity, or are they merely the deluded slaves of forces far beyond their comprehension?
With countless creative and engaging opportunities, Black Crusade delivers an exciting new roleplaying experience. The days of the Imperium of Man are coming to an end, and the corpse-god will soon fall. Head to the Black Crusade website to learn more, and this summer, prepare to embrace Chaos!
Black Crusade is a roleplaying game set in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, a setting in the grim darkness of the far future. Players take on the roles of Disciples of the Dark Gods, working against the rule of the galaxy-spanning Imperium of Man and in pursuit of personal glory.
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Post by: Ozymandias
Holy crap, Raef was right!
How did we not hear about this sooner?
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Post by: Grot 6
Now if thats not one of the coolest things I've seen an quite some time.
I thought that Deathwatch was cool. THAT chaos stuff has me stoked to go down to the store and see whats what.
Great find!!!
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Post by: Platuan4th
So excited.
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Post by: Earthbeard
I did a sex wee.
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Post by: Da Boss
Earthbeard: Hahaha!
Wow! I read the title, and Iwas all "Wait wait waaaaiiiit, 40K RPG Chaos expansion? The irrepressible Kid Kyoto is having me on."
Now I'm all "It's for REALZ?"
Totally stoked.
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Post by: warboss
hrmmm... i think i would have preferred to have this as a supplement to existing games rather than a standalone one as i think the current player base is already fragmented enough. Either way, lots of cool new color chaos art!
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Post by: BladeWalker
NOW I have a reason to get into this game... 
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Post by: Savnock
HELL YES.
This will probably birth more awesome fluff and new perspectives than we've seen since 3rd ed. or so. And with the way that FFG and Black Library fluff seems to be informing the codex writing these days, I can't wait to see how this adds depth to a future Chaos Codex. No more cartoon bad guys, maybe we'll even see semi-legitimate/sympathetic anti-Imperium rebels in there.
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Post by: carmachu
Ok thats offically cool.
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Post by: Mattlov
I'm surprised it is a standalone game as well.
But it is always nice to let the evil side out on occasion.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Da Boss wrote:
Wow! I read the title, and Iwas all "Wait wait waaaaiiiit, 40K RPG Chaos expansion? The irrepressible Kid Kyoto is having me on."
Photoshopping the book was a bit of a challenge but the real work was hacking the FFG server to post the fake notice. 
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG BONER
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Post by: Absolutionis
I'm not too much of a fan of Chaos, but this image alone has me excited:
1
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Post by: Bloodwin
This looks quite interesting along with Deathwatch. What would be even cooler would be a Horus Heresy RPG. The way that the HH books are seen through the eyes of normal people along side the Astartes would be great for an RPG. Imagine being on on Prospero or trying to get off it as the Space Wolves attacked.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Ozymandias wrote:Holy crap, Raef was right!
My first thoughts as well. Does this make us total D6G fanboys?
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Post by: Pyriel-
Me want!
The possibilities to pitch two different rpg groups against each others will make for some fun play.
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Post by: VikingScott
Sounds good from that snippet!
I can imagine that eventually someone will have the bright idea of a cult of players going against a cell of aclyote players. Interesting.
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Post by: Ozymandias
lord_blackfang wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Holy crap, Raef was right!
My first thoughts as well. Does this make us total D6G fanboys?
Sadly yes. And I remember thinking during that podcast: "That would be awesome, but it would never happen..."
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Post by: Platuan4th
Ozymandias wrote:lord_blackfang wrote:Ozymandias wrote:Holy crap, Raef was right!
My first thoughts as well. Does this make us total D6G fanboys?
Sadly yes. And I remember thinking during that podcast: "That would be awesome, but it would never happen..."
Oh ye of little faith.
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Post by: skrulnik
I can't imagine it would have been much cheaper as a supplement book. This way, its easier to create an all chaos group, I think.
I will be getting it, most likely.
Slowly picking up the existing books since I got DeathWatch
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Post by: BrookM
Chances are this one will also go for the same price as the other core books. Personally I'm not that interested in this, but good for FFG to cater to the heretics.
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Post by: PrimarchX
All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system. I have no problem with this standing alone as integration with the others pretty straight forward.
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Post by: lasgunpacker
This is an interesting direction to go in, since they could have sold "Chaos" books for all three systems seperately.
Then again, this book might simply be that with bridging material.
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Post by: Darth Bob
So I assume playing a Berzerker will require you to shout and froth at the mouth the entire roleplaying session?
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Post by: Foda_Bett
Damn... I'm torn.
On the one hand I am a devout Imperium only player (RPG and table top) on the other hand I have all but the Dark Heresy Collectors Editions.
Grr...
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm with you there, Foda!
But, if nothing else, if will give you good ideas for adversaries and such...
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Post by: whitedragon
Blood for the Blood God!
We shall rend the galaxy asunder!
Let the Galaxy Burn!
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Post by: Rymafyr
PrimarchX wrote:All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system. I have no problem with this standing alone as integration with the others pretty straight forward.
So do all these FFG systems work together or completely seperate? These have piqued my interest for some time. Way more than anything GW has done in the past 4 years.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Still waiting for the fifth standalone RPG in our popular Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay line: Playing Orks, Eldar and Tau!
But this one also sounds interesting.
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Post by: devilution
Yumm ! Will they do a special edition?
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Post by: notprop
Where the heckerdy-heck did this come from?
I'm not sure howthis couldn't have been an extension/supplement for any/all of the preceeding ones but there we go.
S'pose i'll end up getting though..........Just not the collectors edition notprop[starts sweating!]
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Post by: DagobahDave
notprop wrote:I'm not sure howthis couldn't have been an extension/supplement for any/all of the preceeding ones but there we go.
All of the 40KRP games work together pretty easily, so they do act like extensions/supplements for each other. But there's not a lot of need for it. When are you ever going to have a group that mixes Chaos followers in with Deathwatch Marines or an Inquisitor's agents? You all meet in a bar, and suddenly a fight breaks out between the Chaos and non-Chaos party members whose ingrained hatred for one another defines their purpose for being.
At the very best, it's going to be one hell of a dysfunctional party. I'm sure that if you really want to do that, you'll find it easy enough to adapt the rules for it. Adapting the setting to it would be the hard part.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Not easy to add a single Chaos Space Marine to a Deathwatch squad
So you need enough background material and gaming options for a separate Chaos squad.
BTW first stand-alone RPG outside the original Black Industry plan.
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Post by: Archonate
This probably has amazing potential, but I'm wondering why they keep making games about good SMs vs. bad SMs. 40k has an abundance of untapped awesomeness which has nothing to do with the Imperium and Chaos. As cool as this game probably will be, it's subject matter feels more than a little redundant to me.
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Post by: the_dunner
Very glad to see FFG make the public announcement about this one.
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Post by: Savnock
Archonate wrote:This probably has amazing potential, but I'm wondering why they keep making games about good SMs vs. bad SMs. 40k has an abundance of untapped awesomeness which has nothing to do with the Imperium and Chaos. As cool as this game probably will be, it's subject matter feels more than a little redundant to me.
Writing aliens takes a seriously different mindset. See Path of the Warrior for the successes and failures that can entail. In other words, it's a lot harder to do right.
An adventure for Rogue Trader that has all-Ork PCs would be AWESOME, though.
Back on-topic, I can't wait to read this. Seems like playing Marines heavily aligned with one of the Powers would be kinda tricky/one-dimensional. Less out-and-out-Chaosy renegades sounds more interesting.
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Post by: Absolutionis
Kroothawk wrote:Still waiting for the fifth standalone RPG in our popular Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay line: Playing Orks, Eldar and Tau!
But this one also sounds interesting.
Archonate wrote:An adventure for Rogue Trader that has all-Ork PCs would be AWESOME, though.
Back on-topic, I can't wait to read this. Seems like playing Marines heavily aligned with one of the Powers would be kinda tricky/one-dimensional. Less out-and-out-Chaosy renegades sounds more interesting.
In case you're both not aware, the Rogue Trader supplement "Into the Storm" has rules for playing as an Ork Freeboota and a Kroot Mercenary.
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Post by: DagobahDave
Archonate wrote: I'm wondering why they keep making games about good SMs vs. bad SMs.
What about Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader? These have been available for quite a while, and they don't feature Space Marines in any significant capacity. Those games both deal with lots more than Chaos.
Of course, until Deathwatch came along there were lots of players asking, "When do we get to play Space Marines?" I'm not much of a fan of Space Marines, but they're clearly a popular choice and it'd be a poor decision not to have released something like Deathwatch.
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Post by: Commander Endova
Kroothawk wrote:Not easy to add a single Chaos Space Marine to a Deathwatch squad
So you need enough background material and gaming options for a separate Chaos squad.
On the contrary, I think a Chaos Marine would make an excellent Black Shield deathwatch marine, especially if the book lets you roll something like a repentant Fallen.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Rymafyr wrote:PrimarchX wrote:All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system. I have no problem with this standing alone as integration with the others pretty straight forward.
So do all these FFG systems work together or completely seperate? These have piqued my interest for some time. Way more than anything GW has done in the past 4 years.
They use more or less the same system but the power levels climbed with each one.
Dark Heresy was essentially normal skilled humans
Rogue Trader is humans but several levels up the latter with incredible skills and mile long star ships with crew in the 10s of thousands. There's no money in RT because your RT clan is so rich it's more a question of how many squads of fighters can I buy, how many thousand more crew, and not 'do I have 5 thrones for a new flak vest'.
Death Watch is about marines who can squish any human, no matter how skilled, with their pinkies.
Black Crusade says it offers CSMs and mortal followers so I wonder how they'll do it, will they offer ideas for different power levels or will the human followers start off at such a high level they're on par with marines?
It's interesting that FFG made it a stand alone game. So they get to charge $60 for the book and 1/3 of it will be cutting and pasting the same rules. But on the other hand they could have made 3 different $30 books for the other games... Oh well. I'll buy it anyway. I'll never play but I'll buy it.
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Post by: Valhallan42nd
Pro-tip for all the FFG RPG fans: these books are sold at Borders, and those guys often offer 30-40% off coupons on single items via their free rewards program.*
*Of course, given their current reorganization, this may have changed.
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Post by: BrookM
Changed my mind, I'm getting it, courtesy of Throne of Lies.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
PrimarchX wrote:All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system.
Yeah. Sure they are...
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Post by: Kroothawk
Absolutionis wrote:In case you're both not aware, the Rogue Trader supplement "Into the Storm" has rules for playing as an Ork Freeboota and a Kroot Mercenary.
I am aware, I play one Kroot. But it's not the same as e.g. a complete Eldar/Tau/Ork group doing adventures in an Eldar/Tau/Ork setting/adventure.
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Post by: KOS
OMG.... CHAOS!? Playing as CHAOS?!
That's awesome!
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Post by: Rymafyr
While the Black Crusade, conceivably could bring an amazing amount of content, I just do not understand the appeal of SM's in an RPG setting at all. At least loyalist SM. They have no individual life. Their lives are spent like monks and they only get to come out and play when a battle needs to be fought and then everything is regimented by the chapter. Obviously FFG did something to get around this when they produced DeathWatch. I'll have to look at that.
With Chaos I can see lots of potential opportunity for someone playing a CSM but I'd think the same pitfalls exist depending on how closely you align to specific chaos gods or depending on what renegade chapter they're affiliated with.
Rouge Trader looks to have the possibility of having the most diverse elements but I suppose that all depends on particular game mechanics like Kid_Kyoto pointed out.
Thanks Kid_Kyoto for summarizing things for me.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Rymafyr wrote:While the Black Crusade, conceivably could bring an amazing amount of content, I just do not understand the appeal of SM's in an RPG setting at all. At least loyalist SM. They have no individual life. Their lives are spent like monks and they only get to come out and play when a battle needs to be fought and then everything is regimented by the chapter. Obviously FFG did something to get around this when they produced DeathWatch. I'll have to look at that.
The fact that you believe this is what makes the various Astartes so difficult to actually explain the differences between the various Chapters to people.
Loyalist SMs, while 'spending their lives(outside of being in combat, maintaining their equipment, constantly training, or in the cases of some Chapters--producing poetry, works of art, etc) like monks' still have plenty of character--especially when it comes to their interactions with the other Chapters and the Imperium at large.
When it comes down to it: Astartes are still individuals. Just because they have a pretty solid foundation that they've based their faith in the Imperium upon doesn't make them mindless automatons.
With Chaos I can see lots of potential opportunity for someone playing a CSM but I'd think the same pitfalls exist depending on how closely you align to specific chaos gods or depending on what renegade chapter they're affiliated with.
Again; more misnomers about Astartes. The Traitor Astartes, quite frankly, are going to be the most interesting thing to RP--if the individual RPing the character doesn't just go overboard and make their character Evil McEvilevilest.
The only thing you might be right about is RPing a Khornate Berzerker who's been devoted to Khorne for a long time. They tend to be 'two skulls short of a full skull throne'.
Rouge Trader looks to have the possibility of having the most diverse elements but I suppose that all depends on particular game mechanics like Kid_Kyoto pointed out.
You mean Rogue Trader, right? I'm pretty sure the RPG based upon the Imperium's make-up industry was canceled.
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Post by: CadianXV
What a fantastic release! I'm not so much stoked for the game, but the info that will be revealed with it. I'm personally holding out for Alpha Legion spoilers.
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Post by: lords2001
I believe this book isn't a chaos bolt on to the existing systems - I would say with certainty that they are actually redoing a lot of the fundamentals in this books (not all, not most, but a lot) with the idea of making it more stable, equalising ranged and close combat, humans and marines (to a point) and making sure it can scale up and down without the scaling issues seen sometimes in Dark Heresy (too little scaling) or Deathwatch (far, far too much scaling).
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Post by: Rymafyr
Personal attacks violate DakkaDakka rules. ~Manchu
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Post by: DagobahDave
Kid_Kyoto wrote:It's interesting that FFG made it a stand alone game. So they get to charge $60 for the book and 1/3 of it will be cutting and pasting the same rules. But on the other hand they could have made 3 different $30 books for the other games...
It's not a third. It's more like a tenth.
The core rules for the other 40K RPGs fit on about 40 pages, and the books run about 400 pages.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Kanluwen wrote:I'm pretty sure the RPG based upon the Imperium's make-up industry was canceled.
Damn, I was anxiously awaiting the day that I could bust out my Liz Claiborne chapter Marine.
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Post by: temprus
Kid_Kyoto wrote:It's interesting that FFG made it a stand alone game. So they get to charge $60 for the book and 1/3 of it will be cutting and pasting the same rules. But on the other hand they could have made 3 different $30 books for the other games... Oh well. I'll buy it anyway. I'll never play but I'll buy it.
I agree except they normally make the rules supplements $50 bucks, not $30. RoB is 256 pages for $50, DW is $60 for 400 pages.
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Post by: Da Boss
On Xenos, I think one of the issues with a Xenos book is the fact that GW have given their aliens some proper alien outlooks. It's not like D'n'D where you've got pretty human-analogue other races. It could be an interesting roleplaying challenge, but I doubt it would be massively popular.
I wrote a couple of once offs based around a squad of Ork Kommandos, and they were perfect for that sort of structure (high octane adventure with a lot of humour.) Their personalities are so monomaniacal that it's really easy for once off players to get into character (I didn't even give them names past their roles- Boss, Dakka, Fingers, Sneak, Wierdo and Grot). I don't see it as being something you could run a whole campaign around.
Kroot or Tau could be more interesting.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Rymafyr wrote:While the Black Crusade, conceivably could bring an amazing amount of content, I just do not understand the appeal of SM's in an RPG setting at all. At least loyalist SM. They have no individual life. Their lives are spent like monks and they only get to come out and play when a battle needs to be fought and then everything is regimented by the chapter. Obviously FFG did something to get around this when they produced DeathWatch. I'll have to look at that.
With Chaos I can see lots of potential opportunity for someone playing a CSM but I'd think the same pitfalls exist depending on how closely you align to specific chaos gods or depending on what renegade chapter they're affiliated with.
Rouge Trader looks to have the possibility of having the most diverse elements but I suppose that all depends on particular game mechanics like Kid_Kyoto pointed out.
Thanks Kid_Kyoto for summarizing things for me.
Of the 3 I would say Dark Heresy is the closest to a classic RPG like D&D. YOu have a small band, limited resources and a set of combat and non-combat skills.
Death Watch is more like a high-level game focused on combat. It interests me the least though so I might just be making assumptions.
Rogue Trader I'm still trying to get a vision of. The intro adventure seemed a bit contrived - salvage a chaos-tainted ship but tradition requires the RT himself be the first to set foot on it and not your 50,000 faceless minions. I imagine it will have to focus on a combination of intrique and ship to ship combat over face to face action. I worry that PCs will just stay where it's safe and send in faceless minions. But like I said, I've not actually played any of them nor am I likely to any time soon.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Da Boss wrote: I don't see it as being something you could run a whole campaign around.
I think it depends on the group. If you're a group who focuses on roleplaying and character development, then no. But if you're in a group where Roleplaying is that thing your GM forces you to do between fighting and (more importantly, of course) looting corpses, then Orks are perfect
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
If you're looking for Xenos this is coming up for RT:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1589948017/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
Across the Koronus Expanse, a multitude of beings both terrifying and mysterious await discovery. Some will offer aid, others destruction... but make no mistake, each has its own agenda! Xenos Compendium is a comprehensive collection of countless horrifying denizens of the Koronus Expanse. From the Rak'Gol to the Yu'vath, Orks, Eldar, Daemons, and monsters from countless worlds, Xenos Compendium provides the details necessary to for players of the Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader Roleplay Game to defend themselves and their ships!
Although it sounds like a Monster Manual many of the suppliments have included info on role played aliens.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Yes, it is just a Monster Manual. Having stats of an NPC is no substitute for a balanced PC career path.
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Post by: Grot 6
Rymafyr wrote:PrimarchX wrote:All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system. I have no problem with this standing alone as integration with the others pretty straight forward.
So do all these FFG systems work together or completely seperate? These have piqued my interest for some time. Way more than anything GW has done in the past 4 years.
Yes they do.
Great game and it has more then enough material to keep you occupied.
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Post by: Alkasyn
I ran 2 sessions of Deathwatch, and so far they were entertaining both for my and my Kill Team.It was difficult to picture how an RPG with SPace Marines would look like apart from combat, but I guess we managed to work it out. I cant picture a way to play a ravening lunatic of a World Eater, but I guess FFG will also work it out somehow.
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Post by: PrimarchX
H.B.M.C. wrote:PrimarchX wrote:All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system.
Yeah. Sure they are...
Well, except for anal-retentives like you, HBMC, who need a provable unified field theory of role playing to be satisfied. 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Wow. Completely uncalled for.
Stay classy PrimarchX.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
PrimarchX wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:PrimarchX wrote:All the 40k RPGs are more or less supplements of the same system.
Yeah. Sure they are...
Well, except for anal-retentives like you, HBMC, who need a provable unified field theory of role playing to be satisfied.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Wow. Completely uncalled for.
Stay classy PrimarchX.
Guys chill.
The fact is they use the same basic mechanics but each game is a unique snowflake and they don't mesh 100%.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Da Boss wrote:
Wow! I read the title, and Iwas all "Wait wait waaaaiiiit, 40K RPG Chaos expansion? The irrepressible Kid Kyoto is having me on."
Photoshopping the book was a bit of a challenge but the real work was hacking the FFG server to post the fake notice.
I knew you had skills KK, but damn...
I am pretty excited for this sounds like just the RPG I'm looking for.
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Post by: Nagashek
Bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodBLOODFORTHEBLOODGOD!!!
Edit: I have already been informed by my gaming group that I am NOT infact allowed to play a devotee of Khorne.
Edit 2: I have just been pre-emptively denied my well endowed devotee of slaanesh as well. /crai
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Interesting. Will get this to read at the very least. Although still need to buy Deathwatch at some point. It is possible this will be purchased first.
Nice touch by FFG though, I also agree with any suggestions for a Ork, Eldar etc themed book/books for the future.
Eldar and/or Ork would likely see more play than Imperial.
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Post by: evilsponge
Another epic win by FFG Automatically Appended Next Post: Nagashek wrote:Bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodblood
bloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodbloodBLOODFORTHEBLOODGOD!!!
Edit: I have already been informed by my gaming group that I am NOT infact allowed to play a devotee of Khorne.
Edit 2: I have just been pre-emptively denied my well endowed devotee of slaanesh as well. /crai
Its obvious they want you to become a devotee of Nurgle and not shower again
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Post by: endtransmission
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Black Crusade says it offers CSMs and mortal followers so I wonder how they'll do it, will they offer ideas for different power levels or will the human followers start off at such a high level they're on par with marines?
I was wondering that too. The description on the microsite seems to suggest some very varied potentials for a wide range of power levels. For example taking out opposing cult cells is well below someone who goes on to build an army and start a crusade of their own (both examples are given in the description).
It will also be interesting to see if they do any form of crossover book like Ascension that allows your DH or RT players to fall to Chaos and carry on in Black Crusade.
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Post by: Cerebrium
Welp, plague marine. Forgone conclusion.
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Post by: Brother Heinrich
interesting stuff
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Post by: aka_mythos
I'm curious what fluff will be used to justify the opposed flavors of chaos working together. Is the players group some unit that vaguely mirrors the imperiums chamber militant as chaos' special forces?
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Post by: Melissia
Neato. Should provide a good amount of fluff on the beliefs of the servants of chaos.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
endtransmission wrote:Kid_Kyoto wrote:Black Crusade says it offers CSMs and mortal followers so I wonder how they'll do it, will they offer ideas for different power levels or will the human followers start off at such a high level they're on par with marines?
I was wondering that too. The description on the microsite seems to suggest some very varied potentials for a wide range of power levels. For example taking out opposing cult cells is well below someone who goes on to build an army and start a crusade of their own (both examples are given in the description).
It will also be interesting to see if they do any form of crossover book like Ascension that allows your DH or RT players to fall to Chaos and carry on in Black Crusade.
There's already a radical's handbook so I would say they'll do something. I've not yet seen a real cross over book though, RT just has a quick section on how to upgrade your characters and of course either you're a marine by the time you're 12 or you ain't so it's a moot point in DW.
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Post by: Kanluwen
aka_mythos wrote:I'm curious what fluff will be used to justify the opposed flavors of chaos working together. Is the players group some unit that vaguely mirrors the imperiums chamber militant as chaos' special forces?
I'm thinking that, likely, with the first book we won't see the various 'flavors' of Chaos.
We'll likely see the most generic, Undivided centric units at the beginning.
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Post by: Element206
awesome!
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Post by: ProtoClone
This might be enough to get me in...although the price for the books makes me reconsider.
Regardless, awesome! Already I am wanting to try out an Alpha Marine or Thousand Sons.
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Post by: Mordoskul
Excuse me, I need to go change my pants.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Y'know didn't Andy Chambers have a role in writing Death Watch? I wonder if he worked on this as well.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Supposedly he did, but I think it was they just credited him because they used some of his Index Astartes fluff pieces.
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Post by: Holycrusader27
Nice know of there was a for stand alone expac for either forces of imperium( SM, IG, SoB) or xeno verison maybe Orks eldar/D eldar/tau. Would be nice too see in the future.
Also gives some of are fellow Hygeitically challenged gamers a excuse to RPing devotee of nugrle/plague marine.... 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kanluwen wrote:Supposedly he did, but I think it was they just credited him because they used some of his Index Astartes fluff pieces.
I seem to remember that when Ross Watson was interview by 40K Radio he mentioned that they worked with Andy Chambers, rather than just crediting him for ideas. Besides, he’s listed as a writer in Rites of Battle, not ‘ with additional material by... ’ or ‘ original concepts by...’.
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Post by: Kanluwen
H.B.M.C. wrote:Kanluwen wrote:Supposedly he did, but I think it was they just credited him because they used some of his Index Astartes fluff pieces.
I seem to remember that when Ross Watson was interview by 40K Radio he mentioned that they worked with Andy Chambers, rather than just crediting him for ideas. Besides, he’s listed as a writer in Rites of Battle, not ‘ with additional material by... ’ or ‘ original concepts by...’.
Well there you go then! He did work on it, not just had some of his material rehashed.
Surprised he has time for us 'nerds' now that he works for Blizzard 
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Post by: Valhallan42nd
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Rogue Trader I'm still trying to get a vision of. The intro adventure seemed a bit contrived - salvage a chaos-tainted ship but tradition requires the RT himself be the first to set foot on it and not your 50,000 faceless minions. I imagine it will have to focus on a combination of intrique and ship to ship combat over face to face action. I worry that PCs will just stay where it's safe and send in faceless minions. But like I said, I've not actually played any of them nor am I likely to any time soon.
It's Star Trek roleplay, but you're the guys with the beards from the nega-universe.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Valhallan42nd wrote:Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Rogue Trader I'm still trying to get a vision of. The intro adventure seemed a bit contrived - salvage a chaos-tainted ship but tradition requires the RT himself be the first to set foot on it and not your 50,000 faceless minions. I imagine it will have to focus on a combination of intrique and ship to ship combat over face to face action. I worry that PCs will just stay where it's safe and send in faceless minions. But like I said, I've not actually played any of them nor am I likely to any time soon.
It's Star Trek roleplay, but you're the guys with the beards from the nega-universe.
I see that but in Star Trek you have writers how can say the captain must beam down to every hostile world instead of just dropping 100 red shirts.
Gamers arent always that cooperative.
But I guess we can always go with the 'play the game' solution and tell players either they do all the cliches or no experience.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Kanluwen wrote:I'm thinking that, likely, with the first book we won't see the various 'flavors' of Chaos.
We'll likely see the most generic, Undivided centric units at the beginning.
I'm more inclined to think that we'll see Chaos gods in the book, just not the "elite": Bezerkers, Thousand Sons, etc. I'm reluctant to even call them "units", as you have... since there are certain things that are almost necessary to roundout the roles that don't currently exist. No medic or techs really exist.
Either way regardless of chaos god affiliation... there isn't the same open plot device for chaos, that Deathwatch afford to the Imperium... no currently existing mix matched unit with chaos marines of different backgrounds and archetypal skill sets. Something could very easily be invented, but nothing really exists. Its about what the single unifying aspect of a players group will be.
If however the book focuses solely on Chaos Undivided it almost necessitates the accentuate and represent the various interpretation of chaos undivded that different warbands and legions believe.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
It'd be silly to have a game about Chaos that didn't have stuff for the 4 Chaos Gods.
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Post by: Mordoskul
A party of Rubric Marines- the best roleplay my group has ever had.
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Post by: Kanluwen
H.B.M.C. wrote:It'd be silly to have a game about Chaos that didn't have stuff for the 4 Chaos Gods.
Yeah, it would...but starting off with the Undivided material gives a good springboard, like how Deathwatch focused on the 'Big Name' Chapters.
With Undivided, you've got the Red Corsairs, Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers and their various Cultist associations.
First expansion book could introduce a series of the most iconic archetypes: Sorcerers, Berzerkers, Blood Pact-styled Cultists, etc.
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Post by: Wolfpack of One
Awesome. Period.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Kanluwen wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:It'd be silly to have a game about Chaos that didn't have stuff for the 4 Chaos Gods.
Yeah, it would...but starting off with the Undivided material gives a good springboard, like how Deathwatch focused on the 'Big Name' Chapters.
With Undivided, you've got the Red Corsairs, Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers and their various Cultist associations.
I think the problem with this is that there is so much redundancy and too little established variation that the distinctions are too far and few to build the core game around. I think the distinctions will be cut differently than how you're proposing. What you're saying is the equivalent of if only chapters from Codex: Space Marine had been in Deathwatch. Clearly FFG is driven by a sense of having as much distinction as possible in the core book; hence why with Deathwatch they chose Ultras, DA, BA, BT, and SW as opposed to Ravenguard, Iron hands, Imperial Fists, Salamanders for the first book. A book that leaves out the "big 4," is one that leaves out the most immediately recognizable parts of chaos for the sake of emphasizing the part that most would care least about.
I think the distinctions for Black Crusade should be based first on Chaos allegence, then class, then "origin". Thats because for chaos marines allegance more greatly emphasizes the roll than "origin" since Chaos Marines break away and form their own warbands all the time with little regard for the legion/chapter/warband they come from. What I mean by that is being a Wordbearer for example has a smaller impact on your class choices than being a Khorne worshiper who shuns magic and heavy weapons. It can't be an after thought.
I would like to see more distinctions to the beliefs of Chaos cults... you obviously have the big 4, but the Undivded cults vary more greatly. From those who worship it as a single collective entity, to those of the obliterator cult, to those who worship an archane and lesser god not as a deity but as a symbolic figure representating some nature of chaos (I'm not saying he should be in here) but like Malal who represented chaos' nature of self destruction.
A book focusing on "Red Corsairs, Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers and their various Cultist associations" would be the most superficial approach, that while thorough in representing legions does little to represent the far greate rpercentage of chaos.
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Post by: Kanluwen
aka_mythos wrote:Kanluwen wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:It'd be silly to have a game about Chaos that didn't have stuff for the 4 Chaos Gods.
Yeah, it would...but starting off with the Undivided material gives a good springboard, like how Deathwatch focused on the 'Big Name' Chapters.
With Undivided, you've got the Red Corsairs, Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers and their various Cultist associations.
I think the problem with this is that there is so much redundancy and too little established variation that the distinctions are too far and few to build the core game around. I think the distinctions will be cut differently than how you're proposing. What you're saying is the equivalent of if only chapters from Codex: Space Marine had been in Deathwatch. Clearly FFG is driven by a sense of having as much distinction as possible in the core book; hence why with Deathwatch they chose Ultras, DA, BA, BT, and SW as opposed to Ravenguard, Iron hands, Imperial Fists, Salamanders for the first book. A book that leaves out the "big 4," is one that leaves out the most immediately recognizable parts of chaos for the sake of emphasizing the part that most would care least about.
I think you're misunderstanding me.
I'm not saying that you just "leave out" the individual Ruinous Powers in the book.
I'm saying that the first book would work better as an 'introductory' of sorts to the Chaos forces.
In those 5 names I listed you've got the most common archetypes of all Chaos forces.
You've got the recently turned renegade Astartes, many of whom are still equipped very similar to their Loyalist counterparts, in the Red Corsairs.
You've got the 'warband leaders', the ones who most commonly strike out on their own, subject a pirate raider band or take over a warband of Traitor Astartes who've already struck out on their own, in the Black Legion.
You've got the 'manipulative character'/'stealth expertise' in the form of the Alpha Legion, with them also likely being the ones most suited to make contact with a local populace and start inquiring as to the warband's objectives.
You've got the 'raider'/'tactical specialist' in the form of the Night Lords, with the character being one of the best suited to actually organizing a plan for conducting a campaign rather than just providing the troops for it like the Alpha/Black Legionnaire would be.
And then finally you've got the 'mysticism' archetype filled in with using the Word Bearers.
I think the distinctions for Black Crusade should be based first on Chaos allegiance, then class, then "origin". That's because for chaos marines allegiance more greatly emphasizes the role than "origin" since Chaos Marines break away and form their own warbands all the time with little regard for the legion/chapter/warband they come from. What I mean by that is being a Word Bearer for example has a smaller impact on your class choices than being a Khorne worshiper who shuns magic and heavy weapons. It can't be an after thought.
That's not necessarily true. Origin and Legion play a larger part than their deities, at least from what I've seen.
Word Bearers, for example, tend towards being Sorcerers or focused more on establishing Cults/Summoning Rituals than combat.
I would like to see more distinctions to the beliefs of Chaos cults... you obviously have the big 4, but the Undivided cults vary more greatly. From those who worship it as a single collective entity, to those of the obliterator cult, to those who worship an archane and lesser god not as a deity but as a symbolic figure representating some nature of chaos (I'm not saying he should be in here) but like Malal who represented chaos' nature of self destruction.
And that's where the actual cultists themselves come into play. You've got the Dark Mechanicus, you've got the Word Bearers' cultists, you've got the Alpha Legion's cultists/militias, you've got the Black Legion's large amount of renegade Guardsmen that they've armed up and have broken to their will, etc.
A book focusing on "Red Corsairs, Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Word Bearers and their various Cultist associations" would be the most superficial approach, that while thorough in representing legions does little to represent the far greater percentage of chaos.
Yeah, if you just focus on the overall aspect of these associations, rather than using them as 'archetypes' to establish a framework and just kind of 'touch base' on the Ruinous Powers in the book.
You could have a Black Legion Marine who's devoted to Tzeentch/Nurgle, a Night Lord who's devoted to Khorne, etc--things like that.
The Death Guard, Thousand Sons, World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children--along with the specialist Cultist formations organized like the Blood Pact would make for a great'expansion' book, don't you think?
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Post by: skrulnik
Yeah, I would think becoming part of one of the Cult Legions would be like a Prestige class. You wouldn't start as one, but aspire to be.
I hope the FFG books explore the idea that you can be of the Big Four Legions and not be a Cult follower.
I'd like to see a World Eater that is a leader and makes the party better, like a Paladin in Diablo2, or an Emperor's Child who isn't a Noise Marine, for example.
Also the fleshing out of the "normal" stuff. Like a Blood Pact type of military, or those who have followed Fabius Bile's path, human and superhuman.
Sorry for wishlisting, but I really don't want Codex Chaos Marines in RPG form. I want CHAOS.
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Post by: reds8n
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/19517.html
puts the release in August.
..but they also say that it's GW releasing the book, so...
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Post by: KOS
What does that mean reds8n ?
EDIT
I do understand now, they got wrong who's going to publish the game. FFG is not GW.
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Post by: aka_mythos
Kanluwen wrote:
I think the distinctions for Black Crusade should be based first on Chaos allegiance, then class, then "origin". That's because for chaos marines allegiance more greatly emphasizes the role than "origin" since Chaos Marines break away and form their own warbands all the time with little regard for the legion/chapter/warband they come from. What I mean by that is being a Word Bearer for example has a smaller impact on your class choices than being a Khorne worshiper who shuns magic and heavy weapons. It can't be an after thought.
That's not necessarily true. Origin and Legion play a larger part than their deities, at least from what I've seen.
Word Bearers, for example, tend towards being Sorcerers or focused more on establishing Cults/Summoning Rituals than combat.
My point was more that if allegance to a chaos god excludes or prohibits a particular class, it has to happen before the character chooses their class. That based on the patterns of exclusion presented in the codex, it has a more prominent impact on classes, abilities, and skill choices than their past affiliation.
Unlike deathwatch, you aren't a marine from "X"-chapter, you're a chaos marine whose struck out from "Y"-chapter/legion to do your own thing. With that there is an inherently greater disconnect from your origins.
The Death Guard, Thousand Sons, World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children--along with the specialist Cultist formations organized like the Blood Pact would make for a great'expansion' book, don't you think?
The point is, you're leaving out too much of the most richly characteristic aspects of Chaos. Its the equivalent to Deathwatch being released without the main space marine chapters and only the secondary ones. FFG will have plenty to release for Chaos without doing something that keeps the "big 4" out.
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Post by: Kanluwen
aka_mythos wrote:Kanluwen wrote:
I think the distinctions for Black Crusade should be based first on Chaos allegiance, then class, then "origin". That's because for chaos marines allegiance more greatly emphasizes the role than "origin" since Chaos Marines break away and form their own warbands all the time with little regard for the legion/chapter/warband they come from. What I mean by that is being a Word Bearer for example has a smaller impact on your class choices than being a Khorne worshiper who shuns magic and heavy weapons. It can't be an after thought.
That's not necessarily true. Origin and Legion play a larger part than their deities, at least from what I've seen.
Word Bearers, for example, tend towards being Sorcerers or focused more on establishing Cults/Summoning Rituals than combat.
My point was more that if allegiance to a chaos god excludes or prohibits a particular class, it has to happen before the character chooses their class. That based on the patterns of exclusion presented in the codex, it has a more prominent impact on classes, abilities, and skill choices than their past affiliation.
Not necessarily. The problem with trying to establish exclusions based on the Codex is that the Codex is overly simplified. You're not getting even a quarter of the background necessary to really establish a 'themed' force, there's no restrictions overall for a force, etc.
Ex: a Death Guard themed force should never have Thousand Sons within their ranks. They're Legions that have butted heads since the Council of Nikea, and it just makes no sense.
Unlike deathwatch, you aren't a marine from "X"-chapter, you're a chaos marine whose struck out from "Y"-chapter/legion to do your own thing. With that there is an inherently greater disconnect from your origins.
This is a big leap of assumption. Just because mortals are involved doesn't mean that it necessarily has to be 'Chaos Marine who struck out from Y Chapter to do your own thing'. Black Legion, for example, puts their newer recruits in charge of mortal forces before ever letting them be really integrated with the rest of the Legion's Traitor Astartes
The Death Guard, Thousand Sons, World Eaters, and the Emperor's Children--along with the specialist Cultist formations organized like the Blood Pact would make for a great'expansion' book, don't you think?
The point is, you're leaving out too much of the most richly characteristic aspects of Chaos. Its the equivalent to Deathwatch being released without the main space marine chapters and only the secondary ones. FFG will have plenty to release for Chaos without doing something that keeps the "big 4" out.
Again: this is either a big leap of assumption on your part or I'm not conveying my point well enough.
You don't need the Legions that I pointed out to be present from the beginning. You can introduce Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and Khorne easily enough without needing to introduce the Legions that singularly worship those deities.
They are, for lack of a better term, 'too specialized'. They're better used as examples of 'Prestige' or even 'Hero Specialties'.
To use a kind of simplistic example: All Death Guard are Plague Marines, but not all Plague Marines are Death Guard. A Plague Marine from the Death Guard should be a bit tougher than even a Plague Marine would be, a bit more knowledgeable in exploiting the gifts that Nurgle bestowed upon them, and likely still remembers their training from when they fought within the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy, etc.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I see that but in Star Trek you have writers how can say the captain must beam down to every hostile world instead of just dropping 100 red shirts.
I can't watch Star Trek with my father anymore because he constantly complains about how the captain isn't supposed to be leaving the ship or something like that.
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Post by: Daba
Nice, something from a non-Imperial perspective.
I'll probably roll a cultist clone or something though, to capture it for kay-oss...
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Post by: Logan
The idea sounds nice. But what will be next?
A Space Orc RPG? Eldar? Tau?
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Post by: aka_mythos
Kanluwen wrote:Not necessarily. The problem with trying to establish exclusions based on the Codex is that the Codex is overly simplified. You're not getting even a quarter of the background necessary to really establish a 'themed' force, there's no restrictions overall for a force, etc.
I'm not trying to do anything. I'm just saying that based on how Loyalist marines were represented in Deathwatch relative to the source material that preceeded that game, there were restriction on certain units that translated to a restriction on choosable class. With Chaos those same type of restrictions exist fluffwise but are more a product of deity affilitation.
You can make an arguement for different things impacting class selection, but I just think the way a chaos marines beliefs manifest is a stronger indicator to the character than past affilitation. That past affiliation is still part of it, its just the next step.
Kanluwen wrote:This is a big leap of assumption. Just because mortals are involved doesn't mean that it necessarily has to be 'Chaos Marine who struck out from Y Chapter to do your own thing'. Black Legion, for example, puts their newer recruits in charge of mortal forces before ever letting them be really integrated with the rest of the Legion's Traitor Astartes
I'm all for a game that allows you to play as a Chaos cultist, but just as Dark Heresy excluded marines for balancing purpose I think its fair to believe that they'd retain that same rationale here. We could always have a progression, with Chaos Marines as ascended classes, but it puts a stronger strain on the setting to justify a ragtag group.
If they are going to bother to have different Legions and rengade groups represent, it has to make sense for how they can be working together. This either means the chaos marines are individals who've struck out on their own or some sort of a chaos marine share program like the Deathwatch. Otherwise you are talking about every player playing characters all affiliated with the same legion or renegade group.
I would almost go so far as to say, all player will effectively play Chaos marines who from other legions or groups have joined the Red Corsairs, or a similar group. Otherwise you have a very confined scope for the game.
Kanluwen wrote:Again: this is either a big leap of assumption on your part or I'm not conveying my point well enough.
You don't need the Legions that I pointed out to be present from the beginning. You can introduce Nurgle, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and Khorne easily enough without needing to introduce the Legions that singularly worship those deities.
They are, for lack of a better term, 'too specialized'. They're better used as examples of 'Prestige' or even 'Hero Specialties'.
...
I think we're kinda agreeing on this just slicing it differently. My thoughts been that these gods should be in there... and that in a very basic way these legions should be in there. I just think Plague Marines, Berzerkers, Thousand Sons, and Noise Marines should be "prestige classes" brought in later on. That until you get to a point where you can be that prestige class, you're still effectively a new recruit within that cult or legion. Just that with in the first book, by the time you reach the extent of its scope you have a character that can start to look alot like those classes... i.e. bezerker-light.
Then again this depends on the scope the game takes. Deathwatch for example, you start off as a veteran, and with Black Crusade that could well be the case. If it is than having those four in the main book is almost a necessity, though I think it makes the narrative harder to justify.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
I can't watch Star Trek with my father anymore because he constantly complains about how the captain isn't supposed to be leaving the ship or something like that.
Hilarious, thanks for sharing that. They actually tried that more realistic approach in the early days on ST: TNG, but realized pretty quickly that realistic doesn't always make for good drama. The star of the show needs something exciting to do in front of the audience and they quickly had the character of Picard overrule his first officer on that idea and start going on "away team" missions. As for the original Trek, it's well known these days that Shatner tried to get in every scene possible and get as many lines as possible in every episode, so no way was Kirk sitting on the ship during most of the excitement. And it definitely made for better TV on both series. Unfortunately, I don't have time for RPGs any longer with all my painting projects and occasional games for Warhammer, but I did buy the first couple Dark Heresy books just to check them out and they are quite well done. Being a fan of all things Chaos I am seriously considering a purchase of this latest Black Crusade RPG book.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Fantasy Flight Games wrote:This remarkable experience offers players a new perspective on the conflict between the Imperium of Man and the forces of Chaos by delivering the unprecedented opportunity to play as a Disciple of the Dark Gods, whether as a Chaos Space Marine or a human Servant of Chaos.
Emphasis mine.
Apparently the book will have both Marines and Cultists.
But I do think we're just approaching it from different angles. I don't consider Plague Marines, Berzerkers, or Noise Marines to be 'Legion exclusive' though. I think they're just kind of the 'genericized' version of the Legion exclusive variant.
Kind of like Xerox and Copier Machines, y'know?
The Thousand Sons definitely are 'Legion exclusive' though. They're the remnants of the original Thousand Sons, and they only have come about from the Rubric of Ahriman. The Sorcerers within the Legion though...I'm not really sure how they'd fit in overall. Other than being Sorcerers with a vast pool of knowledge, maybe?
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Post by: Alpharius
Kanluwen wrote:Fantasy Flight Games wrote:This remarkable experience offers players a new perspective on the conflict between the Imperium of Man and the forces of Chaos by delivering the unprecedented opportunity to play as a Disciple of the Dark Gods, whether as a Chaos Space Marine or a human Servant of Chaos.
Emphasis mine.
Apparently the book will have both Marines and Cultists.
Sign me up for RPGing faceless, drooling, expendable lunatic #667!
Ha!
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Post by: Kanluwen
I think you'd do it well, Alpharius
I'm wondering if they'll have mortals, however, represented by like 'Traitor Guardsmen' and 'Psykers' as the Cultists.
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Post by: Alpharius
The Bad Guys in the 40K Universe are, for the most part, really not that interesting to me as RPG subjects...
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Post by: PrimarchX
Alpharius wrote:The Bad Guys in the 40K Universe are, for the most part, really not that interesting to me as RPG subjects...
I agree. More of an enhanced Monster Manual for my Deathwatch game, personally. I can understand the appeal of playing bad guys but in 40k the good guys are already so morally ambiguous that the bad ones are practically caricatures of evil and where's the fun in playing Snidely Whiplash, Naughty Boy of Slaanesh?
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
I wonder if Black Crusade will use the psychic power system form DH or RT? I much prefer the one from RT just because you can automatically succeed at a power as long as you don't push it (and I don't think there is a chance for perils of the warp). I've yet to find a good conversion for DH though.
And shouldn't chaos psykers have something other than Perils of the Warp? Happy Thoughts of the Warp? Free Cake from the Warp? Mmm ... Warp Cake.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Alpharius wrote:The Bad Guys in the 40K Universe are, for the most part, really not that interesting to me as RPG subjects...
Don't speak bad of the Alpha Legion, Alpharius
After desparately trying to create a non-bland Deathwatch character, creating a Death Guard character would be easy and fun 
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Post by: Mister Feral
Do want!
I'm not even into roleplaying, but the wealth of chaotic background and inspirational material - must have! 
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Post by: Alpharius
Kroothawk wrote:Alpharius wrote:The Bad Guys in the 40K Universe are, for the most part, really not that interesting to me as RPG subjects...
Don't speak bad of the Alpha Legion, Alpharius
Since they clearly aren't the Bad Guys, what makes you think I was?
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Alpharius wrote:The Bad Guys in the 40K Universe are, for the most part, really not that interesting to me as RPG subjects...
I don't find my Night Lords to be boring, even the actual villainous ones and not just ADB's Night Lords even though I enjoy them immensely as well. In fact I find the fact that the legion contains both rather enjoyable.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Noisy_Marine wrote:I wonder if Black Crusade will use the psychic power system form DH or RT?
It's been pretty clear to me for a long time that there are elements of Black Industry's work on DH that FFG have never liked. Branching career paths is one of them (no FFG 40K RPG product has ever contained one) and the second is the psychic power system ( RT, DW and even Ascension all have their Fettered/Unfettered/Push system).
So it's a safe bet that that trend will continue in Black Crusade.
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Post by: nosferatu1001
Damn. what a way to get me back into RT etc RP....
It also explains exactly what my friend had to finish to a big deadline was (he does contract writing for FFG and has featured in all the books and MM so far. It helps that his knowledge of fluff, especially Eldar, is HUGE) - this
He also runs our local RT group, so maybe we can get a set of DW vs BC groups going...set them up, have them meet a la the short stories with NL and Sallies meeting up (ADB ftw there, awesome stories) on a space hulk....and watch them fight.
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