I didn't see any discussion of them yet. Here are the rules, the scenarios, and the locations.

These are...interesting missions. Round 1 is going to be rough.

Typo (I assume) in Round 3:

Random – After turn 4 roll a d6, on a 3+ the game ends.
On turn 5 and 6, the game will end on a 4+. The game
will automatically end after turn 7.

Unless, of course, it's meant to be easier to end the game on turn 4 than on 5 & 6?

Round 1 - don't take shooting.
Round 2 is pretty standard.

Round 3 is a cluster. That scenario rewards luck more than skill - AND it is a shooty army's worst nightmare. The mini storm banner option obviously hurts the army. On the other hand, if you get the lightning option (is this GW's secret ploy to sell Shaggoth models?) that will nuke most war machines before you can even blink. Not that it hurts me - as a Daemons player I'm loving these scenarios.

TimmyMWD wrote:Round 1 - don't take shooting.
Round 2 is pretty standard.

Round 3 is a cluster. That scenario rewards luck more than skill - AND it is a shooty army's worst nightmare. The mini storm banner option obviously hurts the army. On the other hand, if you get the lightning option (is this GW's secret ploy to sell Shaggoth models?) that will nuke most war machines before you can even blink. Not that it hurts me - as a Daemons player I'm loving these scenarios.

Round 1 isn't just shooting - remember that in Fantasy, you need LoS to charge. Random charge distance + random vision distance = lots of chances to stand around, doing nothing.

I may leave the Skaven home, and bring out my Daemons as well.

Wow. Other than round 3 I am super excited. My DAemon list will do well. Flamers have enough volume of fire to do their job, also they can still charge warmachines as well. Even with ws2 they will still be viable.

Thank lord Tzeentch for Fateweaver's Reroll.

mission 1: Good luck bringing a gun line. Congrats WoC, Daemons, and Orcs we favor you all today.

Mission 2: Yay for S5 chariots for Tomb kings

Mission 3: This is just ****ing slowed. Again any gunline is screwed when your damn warmachine takes d6 automatic wounds. That is a 3 and you lose a warmachine. If you roll the d6 wounds more then one turn then entire units in some cases can be knocked out. Can you imagine all the panic checks for armies like skaven, or empire?

At first I was like, "WTF is an artillery die?"

Then I was like, "Oh wait....Fantasy...."

Then I was like, "Who even plays that?"

Then I posted on Dakka.

+1 for Dash

Acardia wrote:Wow. Other than round 3 I am super excited. My DAemon list will do well. Flamers have enough volume of fire to do their job, also they can still charge warmachines as well. Even with ws2 they will still be viable.

Thank lord Tzeentch for Fateweaver's Reroll.

That's a good point on Fateweaver. That might save the game for you on round 3.

I think this will be an 'Ard Boyz i skip. I've played in the last 2 or 3 and had fun, but these scenarios don't sound fun at all unless you're a close combat army. I don't play to win, in fact i usually get last (even won a prize because of that) but i do want a satisfying game and not a frustrating one.

Yeah, this seems to be a 'close combat only club'. I'm ok with it, but I am afraid it will be 60 demon players, with WOC and Orcs to season. I will miss the unexpected variety of armies.

Gobstomp420 wrote:Yeah, this seems to be a 'close combat only club'. I'm ok with it, but I am afraid it will be 60 demon players, with WOC and Orcs to season. I will miss the unexpected variety of armies.

agreed

I'm a bit confused about Round 2. You get a bonus points if you have more banners at the end (captured banners included), but I thought you didn't capture banners anymore in this edition? You just flat out get the points.

For things that don't require line of sight like certain spells or warmachines, do you think the random sight distance will affect those? I'm thinking no, since you don't require line of sight in the first place. What say ye?

If they are copying the scenario from QCR, which it looks like they are, then it will similarly hamper those distances. Thats just a terrible scenario, anyhow, as it really cripples ranged armies. I played it as a khorne DoC army two years ago at QCR and I drew Dwarves that round and felt like a total jackwad because it let me get my entire army into combat without a single shot being fired.

Dashofpepper wrote:At first I was like, "WTF is an artillery die?"

Then I was like, "Oh wait....Fantasy...."

[points and laughs] Oh wait, should I laugh, or censure you for trolling? I'm just going to take it as an awkward joke, from a person who's missing out on the fun of O.G. Warhammer.

Phazel wrote:If they are copying the scenario from QCR, which it looks like they are, then it will similarly hamper those distances. Thats just a terrible scenario, anyhow, as it really cripples ranged armies. I played it as a khorne DoC army two years ago at QCR and I drew Dwarves that round and felt like a total jackwad because it let me get my entire army into combat without a single shot being fired.

That's not a good sign. Looks like Trade Sales is refusing to put proper thought and effort into the scenarios again. They need to get guys who actually play the game in tournaments to write/edit the darn missions.

You mean put effort into it? Naaahhh.

Maybe I should swap out my PCC and WLC for a second Abomb or, gods forbid, a unit of ROgres...

Scenario 3 is jut plain dumb.

Everyone else: "My shooting doesn't work!"

Me: "...excellent."

As a fairly noobish fantasy player, I absolutely hate getting volleys of crippling shots in the face before I can do much with my WoC. Honestly, which is more broken?

Edit: Not that I'm saying the mission's aren't a little fethed entirely...

Tomb King wrote:mission 1: Good luck bringing a gun line. Congrats WoC, Daemons, and Orcs we favor you all today.

Mission 2: Yay for S5 chariots for Tomb kings

Mission 3: This is just ****ing slowed. Again any gunline is screwed when your damn warmachine takes d6 automatic wounds. That is a 3 and you lose a warmachine. If you roll the d6 wounds more then one turn then entire units in some cases can be knocked out. Can you imagine all the panic checks for armies like skaven, or empire?

1. You missed the memo. We don't say slowed here. Thats rude, so push off.
2. Your taking this a little serious. You might consider toning it down, else we'll make this an official warning and you will risk temporary or permanent suspension.

To all please note the above. Dakka Rule #1 means: Be polite. That means you too Dash.

Im really hoping the scenarios are a omen of things to come...

Basically, gunlines are lame and new books will start moving away from them...

I know very very few people that enjoy playing gunlines... I know even fewer who enjoy playing against them...

Im liking the scenarios tho.

I was hoping that gunlines would start fading with more suprise in your back line tactics(beastmen from the rear, miners, scouts) then missions limiting the ranged play.

Why is anyone worried about gunlines in 8th edition? Yes, they were a problem in previous editions. But they suck out loud in 8th. You don't get half VPs for shooting a unit to half strength. You don't get any VPs for a unit that's fleeing at the end as long as it's still on the table. Armies that sit back and shoot are basically pointless in this edition, so why on earth would you need/want a scenario to make shooting even worse?

Mannahnin wrote:Why is anyone worried about gunlines in 8th edition? Yes, they were a problem in previous editions. But they suck out loud in 8th. You don't get half VPs for shooting a unit to half strength. You don't get any VPs for a unit that's fleeing at the end as long as it's still on the table. Armies that sit back and shoot are basically pointless in this edition, so why on earth would you need/want a scenario to make shooting even worse?

Cause your not getting any points either. Your forced to march accross the field for 2-3 turns, getting shot to gak, then pray your units arent so weak that you can actually do something when you hit their combat units.

Despite that fact, Gun lines are neither fun to play against, and Most people I know that play gunlines say they dont enjoy it, but just do it to stay competitive.

I completely sympathize with disliking gunlines, and totally agree that they're lame and un-fun. Trust me, I've been playing since 1998 and my primary army for a while was Wood Elves. I used to start off games with it against new opponents by reassuring them that I planned to start getting into combat by turn 2.

A) If the enemy has combat units, they're not actually a pure gunline.
B) In 8th, I maintain that gunlines cannot reliably win anyway. You get cover from the more-copious terrain, and you get hard cover from your own intervening units. Any of your units which have been trimmed down to the point where they're no longer viable for HtH by the time they get there, simply don't charge anything other than warmachines! The gunline players gets ZERO points for them. If he sends a unit after them, you can Flee safely. You've got the entire width of the table for those units to Rally; or even if they fail, they have to get all the way off the table to give up any VPs at all. If the person's a gunline, hiding in their own DZ, we're talking about you needing to run off 2.5' to 3' of table to lose that unit. There's not enough turns in the game.

Those restricted LOS ranges in scenario#1 do not stop things like doomwheels, abombs, anything that has compulsory movement from charging correct? It won't stop indirect fire from mortars, rocket batteries, etc. Spells that do not require LOS are not affected. Just BS-based missile fire and WMs that cannot fire indirectly.

I think the Lightning Storm in scenario#3 is too harsh. Maybe dropping it to D3 wounds all around sounds more feasible.

Remember, last year, GW altered the scenarios the week before the tourney...so things aren't necessarily written in stone right now.

Frazzled wrote:

Tomb King wrote:mission 1: Good luck bringing a gun line. Congrats WoC, Daemons, and Orcs we favor you all today.

Mission 2: Yay for S5 chariots for Tomb kings

Mission 3: This is just ****ing slowed. Again any gunline is screwed when your damn warmachine takes d6 automatic wounds. That is a 3 and you lose a warmachine. If you roll the d6 wounds more then one turn then entire units in some cases can be knocked out. Can you imagine all the panic checks for armies like skaven, or empire?

1. You missed the memo. We don't say slowed here. Thats rude, so push off.
2. Your taking this a little serious. You might consider toning it down, else we'll make this an official warning and you will risk temporary or permanent suspension.

To all please note the above. Dakka Rule #1 means: Be polite. That means you too Dash.

lol it was all in good fun. I obviously aint heart broken about the missions. I think you misread the intent of the entire post. I censored my other word. But point proven, I am sorry! I should have just said "stupid" or used a different word. Unless of course the person who came up with the missions was actually " ". Then my apologies again and I should of known. haha

As for gunlines: Tomb Kings arent really too competitive without magic and shooting. I will still use them as I love my tomb kings but I wont be taking any championship home this year.

Gunlines can still do decent in scenario #1. Remember that this scenario starts both sides much closer to each other. But reserves coming in on the back table edge will have a tough time with LOS.

Odominus wrote:Gunlines can still do decent in scenario #1. Remember that this scenario starts both sides much closer to each other. But reserves coming in on the back table edge will have a tough time with LOS.

Yes, but gunlines don't WANT to start closer to an assault army. The typical deployment for cannons & such in a Meeting Engagement is as far back in the corner as possible, terrain allowing.

Janthkin wrote:Yes, but gunlines don't WANT to start closer to an assault army. The typical deployment for cannons & such in a Meeting Engagement is as far back in the corner as possible, terrain allowing.

Under normal circumstances yes. But this scenario limits your LOS. Sticking your WMs far back is a sure fire recipe to take them out of the game.

I'm pretty excited about the scenarios! Although, they likely favor my army, so...

Edit: Oof, that lightning storm in scenario 3 could hurt, though! Can I attach a character on a daemonic mount (disc) to a unit? I thought not, and if so, they could be in for a world of hurt... and I've really got nowhere to put them unless I do some major revisions. I may just hope not to roll a 2... ugh.

Mannahnin wrote:Why is anyone worried about gunlines in 8th edition? Yes, they were a problem in previous editions. But they suck out loud in 8th. You don't get half VPs for shooting a unit to half strength. You don't get any VPs for a unit that's fleeing at the end as long as it's still on the table. Armies that sit back and shoot are basically pointless in this edition, so why on earth would you need/want a scenario to make shooting even worse?

Not sure where you have been playing, but they've been nothing but devestating from what I've seen. I have made it to one GT so far this year, and of 40+ players, the top 5 placed were Dwarf and Empire gunlines.

djones520 wrote:I have made it to one GT so far this year, and of 40+ players, the top 5 placed were Dwarf and Empire gunlines.

What GT was this? Empire and Dwarves? Not Skaven, DE, or Teclis?

Gunlines do not do so well with the current scenarios. In fact, 2 of them auto-lose (blood and glory, watchtower).

Odominus wrote:

djones520 wrote:I have made it to one GT so far this year, and of 40+ players, the top 5 placed were Dwarf and Empire gunlines.

What GT was this? Empire and Dwarves? Not Skaven, DE, or Teclis?

Gunlines do not do so well with the current scenarios. In fact, 2 of them auto-lose (blood and glory, watchtower).

Yeah, they'll be rough in this one, but gun lines are anything but weak in standard games.

But Skaven didn't come close to placing, DE's were upper middle, and there were no Special Characters so Teclis was out. Of the 4 HE's the best placed was a pure melee army with a Star Dragon and Prince.

It was like the tournament saw what the Internetz had to say, and told it to go feth off.

djones520 wrote:
But Skaven didn't come close to placing

Was this a comped GT? What was the name/url of it?

The real problem with scenario 3 is that the results of that game will be totally and utterly random. The chance of some event in that scenario not favoring one side over the other seem real slim to me.

Yah I hate Janky scenarios that reward random dice rolling due to a mission..

I can see scenario 3 screwing so many people. Glad I just run fantasy 'ard boyz.. 40k one is more enjoyable to play in generally

Scenario 3:

4 – TSUNAMI: The oceans wash away vast chunks of
the world, and have made it hard to see and reach the
enemy. All models movement is halved and when
charging only roll 1 d6 to see how far they charge.


How would this effect units with swift stride special rule? I would assume it would move down to 2d6 and still discard one as you still only get one D6 to charge but swift stride just ups the possibility of rolling well.

Also after reviewing scenario 1 again I think I am gonna still run my tomb king gun line. In addition, I will still deploy in the back corner. Odds of rolling a 2,4,6 kind of suck but a 8, 10, or misfire (aka no limits) are just as good. The dice gods will have me at their mercy. I have decided I wont let the scenario's dictate the list I would like to run. Khalida here I come! (Its just so hard to turn down poison arrows and a 2d6 S4 magic attack that wont let you move if you take a wound! )

I would assume the scenario overrides the swift stride rule. D6 is how far you can charge no matter what.

Also, bringing a gun line might work, but I would definitely think about setting them much closer to your enemy. 3-4 turns with no LOS is not good.

Odominus wrote:I would assume the scenario overrides the swift stride rule. D6 is how far you can charge no matter what.

Also, bringing a gun line might work, but I would definitely think about setting them much closer to your enemy. 3-4 turns with no LOS is not good.

3-4 turns with no line of site gets equaled out because if I place them closer they get killed off in less then that many turns.

Is it just me, or are there A LOT more stores hosting Fantasy 'Ard Boyz than their were 40k?

Finals Scenarios:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=400002a§ion=community&pIndex=3&aId=3900019a&start=4&multiPageMode=true

My gut feeling after the initial readthrough of the final scenarios: not good. They feel like they were written by the 40K staff.

I am surprised tho they released everything for all 3 months.. I like the final semi final mission since thats *Exactly* how I "errata'd" their mission from last year which forced some armies to auto-lose on the first turn

First round of missions no fun! Semi's and the finals missions look normal and more playable. Why so much randomness in the first round?

Well imo, prelims are generally filled with shennigans anyhow.. Might as well make the missions wacky. You have like 500 stores each with between 3-30 people (most with like 9).. With that kind of turn out, the missions rarely matter

Hell last year we even got 4 people from 1 store!

Yea, the semi finals are where it's at. Less gimmicks. 3000pt army up for grabs.

Odominus wrote:Yea, the semi finals are where it's at. Less gimmicks. 3000pt army up for grabs.

Did you all read the same missions I did? 8 KPs for a Rare choice? That's NOT gimicky?

well not sure if i will goto the semis even if i make it as i'm still 4+ hour drive away

well i can say that scenario 3 rolling a 2 on the first turn could really suck.

and semis i wont take this list having 60+ kp army isnt going to happen.

holy crap round 2 secnarios look to be not very fun. Does teclis immune to his first "1" on the chart each turn or does he have to bend over and take it?

Janthkin wrote:

Odominus wrote:Yea, the semi finals are where it's at. Less gimmicks. 3000pt army up for grabs.

Did you all read the same missions I did? 8 KPs for a Rare choice? That's NOT gimicky?

When I say "gimmicky," I am referring to the lists not the scenarios. We can't influence the scenarios. In round 1 of 'Ardz you tend to see more one trick pony lists that have much higher risk/reward "tricks" like teleporting/flying a character on a flank and powerscrolling Purple Sun. If your gamble works, great! If not well you just invested a bunch of points into your gimmick and now your odds of winning just dropped. Too bad this gimmick doesn't work so well against high Init armies. Cross your fingers and hope you play Lizardmen 3 times in a row. Another gimmick I saw last year in particular is the "Turtling Up" in a corner strategy. Pay for lots of defense. Well the scenarios made that gimmick a loser as your deployment is sometimes randomized. And so forth..

The semi's usually have less gimmicky armies in favor of more well-rounded lists. Lists able to accommodate all-comers.

This is based soley on my personal experience.


@Arcadia I wondered this too. I can only assume the scenario takes precedence.

I'm starting to think that using fateweaver cautiously in a few of these senarios are really the best bet.

Also I am going to assume that Horrors use their own miscast(remove D6) as normal as well.

However 8kp for a single fiend is not looking very fun.

Acardia wrote:holy crap round 2 secnarios look to be not very fun. Does teclis immune to his first "1" on the chart each turn or does he have to bend over and take it?

I would imagine that Teclis is not immune to the "1"s, just his first miscast that is rolled by double "6"s.

I will have to change my list completely if for some strange reason I would even make it to the semi's. 3 Eagles are great for messing with your opponent when you only loose 150 VP's, but not when you are going to loose 24 KP's.....

He is immune to any miscast HE causes; if he suffers a miscast for any other reason he is not immune, e.g. cupped hands

8KP for rare? sigh. I might have to change up my list, I only have 2 rares but 90pt models giving 8kp is reeeeediculous. The scenarios will be fun, I think, if I win I win, if not then oh well.

nosferatu1001 wrote:He is immune to any miscast HE causes; if he suffers a miscast for any other reason he is not immune, e.g. cupped hands

Quick question on that. I was hit with some chaos item the other day that causes a miscast on a roll of a doulble or something. Would that be ignored by Teclis or woudl he suffer a miscast? Also, what about the DE item that causes miscast if you cast a spell within 12" or an effect happens with in 12"?

I would say any miscast caused in game for whatever reason, if it is his first for the turn, can be ignored. Miscasts due to the scenario are not ignored. These miscasts are baked into the scenario for game flow and that over rides everything.

interesting rule didnt read that part before

"Teclis MAY ignore the effects fo the first miscast he makes each turn".

so the scenario miscast he cant ignore.

Well, that sounds right. I'll just have to deal with it when it happens.

EDIT: I played a practice game of round 1 for the prelims and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I even rolled a 2 on the artillery dice several turns and I didn't get 2 of the spells I wanted. But it was a pretty good game. I played WoC against my HE. It was basically a CC/Magic fest on both sides. He ended up conceding in round 5.

If anyone is worried about the sight restrictions, I recommend playing a game or two to get used to it. Then you'll be more prepared for game day.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:Well, that sounds right. I'll just have to deal with it when it happens.

EDIT: I played a practice game of round 1 for the prelims and it wasn't as bad as I thought. I even rolled a 2 on the artillery dice several turns and I didn't get 2 of the spells I wanted. But it was a pretty good game. I played WoC against my HE. It was basically a CC/Magic fest on both sides. He ended up conceding in round 5.

If anyone is worried about the sight restrictions, I recommend playing a game or two to get used to it. Then you'll be more prepared for game day.

Do you need line of sight for charges?

example your roll a 2.

That is 6" of sight.

Enemy is 8" away from your unit. Can you still charge?

Yes, you have to have line of sight. So, if you can't see them to begin with, you can't declare a charge. However, with meeting engagment, we started really close to each other. So, while the first turn we couldn't charge. The second turn we were on top of each other.

You need LOS to charge

Teclis ignores miscasts HE makes. So, if you have something that makes him miscast on any double then HE miscasts, and HE ignores the first one.

If something else causes a miscast, and he suffers it, he suffers the effects. Cupped hands, for example.

DarkAngelHopeful wrote:
If anyone is worried about the sight restrictions, I recommend playing a game or two to get used to it. Then you'll be more prepared for game day.

Excellent advice!

I'd be very interested to see a couple of battle reports of people playing the third mission a couple of times.

I'm honestly just insanely curious to see what would happen if the D6 wounds was rolled 2-3 turns in a row.

vonjankmon 2-3 turns of lightning would clear the battlefield of all but big blocks. Each unit taking 3d6 wounds with no saves is toast.

I've played and seen several games using these scenarios. In game#3, when the Lightning Storm is rolled, Ive seen Ethereal Slann die. 6 out of 7 warmachines die. Small skirmishing units of all types obliterated. All characters not embedded in units gone. Even if they were using monster mounts.

Besides not rolling that result, our only hope that it is rolled in a later round. That would at least give us 2-3 turns of using those units.



Cool, I'm on my 6th version of my Ard list. Only 4 more to go!

Seems like TK and VC will have a solid possible advantage being able to heal back from a couple of those turns would be huge.

Yea but things like Vargulfs, Black Coach, Corpe Carts, bat swarms, flying Vamps, etc are all toast. Once they're dead, there is no coming back.

Seems to favor bringing large units, which people tend to do at 'Ard Boyz, anyway...

Since I pretty much need to take two disc-riding characters for my WoC due to what I have built, based on the following YMDC thread I'm thinking to hide them in a unit of hounds for deployment and hopefully Turn 1, then fly them to join my large blocks on Turn 2 and stay there for the rest of the game.

Link if anyone is interested is here.

Still need to check with the TO to make sure they agree with this ruling, though... seems fair enough since any unit they're joined to will be stuck moving 1" a turn, or marching 2" since the disc is walking instead of flying.

>> seems fair enough since any unit they're joined to will be stuck moving 1" a turn, or marching 2" since the disc is walking instead of flying.

The higher of 2d6+1. Just declare charges each turn and fail them.

After discussing this in the WHFB section I've realized I can join both to a single unit of hounds, so that I can move the other unit of hounds up and then fly them over to join it. Sounds good in theory, will find out soon enough whether I can pull this off or not (will have to be against a fairly combat-heavy opponent without a lot of long-range shooting to work).

The more and more I look at the potential for miscasts, I can't help thinking fateweaver with his rerolls and second head and +2 to casting will be dead nasty in round two.

Im sure others have played the Scenario 3 for the prelim's. Anyone of you who's played have issues with it? Its rules destroyed my army before contact or damage with my opponents units. First 2 turns of the game were lightning strikes. Lost 2 units of jezzails, 2 warplightning cannons, and my screaming bell. From the Scenario special rules! Sigh. I realize WFB/40k are not tourney style games but come on, a little scenario balance would be appreciated. The other two scenarios...no problems, we liked both, even having the random sighting on the first scenario didnt make or break either of us.

Father Gabe wrote:Im sure others have played the Scenario 3 for the prelim's. Anyone of you who's played have issues with it? Its rules destroyed my army before contact or damage with my opponents units. First 2 turns of the game were lightning strikes. Lost 2 units of jezzails, 2 warplightning cannons, and my screaming bell. From the Scenario special rules! Sigh. I realize WFB/40k are not tourney style games but come on, a little scenario balance would be appreciated. The other two scenarios...no problems, we liked both, even having the random sighting on the first scenario didnt make or break either of us.

And this is why I'm not bringing Skaven. Some armies are far more vulnerable to lightning strikes.

Though I do have hopes of lightning clearing away some fanatics for me.

I recommend carefully reading the 3rd scenario also.. Its one of the worst missions GW has ever produced (Possibly even worse than 40k ard boyz year 1 semifinals missions 2)

All you gotta do is move an unbreakable unit that has a movement of 7 on the first turn and you basically auto win the game. If no one has control then its an automatic draw and the character has to be in BASE contact

Is it a marker with no size? It says OR building, okay so it can either be intangible OR a building? Two totally different things

What about characters in 2nd ranks? What if you challenge and get moved out of base contact? Its such a stupid mission words can hardly describe the # of instances which boggle the mind

Lets say you control the objective.. BUT youre also getting totally wiped out. On the last turn your opponent has a massacre but then you just move your character off the objective.. Instant draw! woo good game guys

The only decent mission this year is #2 since it has no "roll a d6.. whoever rolls higher wins" crap. This is why I *always* run instead of play in the fantasy 'ard boys since im convinced no one at GW even knows how to play fantasy.

I have test played all 3. 1st mission was ok DOC VS WOC my flamers lost one turn of shooting, and Fateweaver could only be defensive for first two turns. Solid game.

Secnario two. DOC vs Skaven. Giving the BSC to my 40 count horror unit with changing, skulltaker and herald, made it eat 60 clanrats, 30 Storm vermin and bell in 4 turns. (dwellers from the herald and other magic thined herd.)

Secnario 3. DOC vs Dwarves STupid lighting on turn 3 killed all my fiends(they were all wounded from shooting) killed all his warmachines. Otherwise wasn't too bad.

Kirasu wrote:I recommend carefully reading the 3rd scenario also.. Its one of the worst missions GW has ever produced (Possibly even worse than 40k ard boyz year 1 semifinals missions 2)

All you gotta do is move an unbreakable unit that has a movement of 7 on the first turn and you basically auto win the game. If no one has control then its an automatic draw and the character has to be in BASE contact

Is it a marker with no size? It says OR building, okay so it can either be intangible OR a building? Two totally different things

What about characters in 2nd ranks? What if you challenge and get moved out of base contact? Its such a stupid mission words can hardly describe the # of instances which boggle the mind

Lets say you control the objective.. BUT youre also getting totally wiped out. On the last turn your opponent has a massacre but then you just move your character off the objective.. Instant draw! woo good game guys

The only decent mission this year is #2 since it has no "roll a d6.. whoever rolls higher wins" crap. This is why I *always* run instead of play in the fantasy 'ard boys since im convinced no one at GW even knows how to play fantasy.

I have a shooting army. I shoot all of your characters units and kill them all off. The best you can do is draw me now!

Yeah but generally speaking a draw is as good as a loss unless a bunch of people at your location have the same thing happen.

Exactly, glad someone realizes that :p And good armies dont get all their best units shot off the board esp if theyre at the top of the swiss pairings

Good luck shooting units of 30 plague bearers off the board or life slann temple guard.. Also that would pretty much suck for you to shoot all their units and then *draw* cause thats all you did was shoot

Also 1/3 chance to get screwed by the random D6 roll if youre a warmachine army. The best armies will be those who can march up with uber units and slaughter anyone close

Kirasu wrote:Also 1/3 chance to get screwed by the random D6 roll if youre a warmachine army. The best armies will be those who can march up with uber units and slaughter anyone close

Which is why my Daemons are going to Ard Boyz, and not my Skaven.

Siren Song is a lovely tool to remove enemy characters from the objective.

Janthkin wrote:Which is why my Daemons are going to Ard Boyz, and not my Skaven.

I still think Skaven will be a force to be reckoned with. Do not write them off, the scenarios favor the Skaven. Unless you run a bunch of weapon teams then lightning in game #3 can drill ya.

Odominus wrote:I still think Skaven will be a force to be reckoned with. Do not write them off, the scenarios favor the Skaven. Unless you run a bunch of weapon teams then lightning in game #3 can drill ya.

The lightning is bad. The limited visibility in mission #1 is also bad. And Daemons can make much better use of the Choppa than Skaven can.

Yea the choppa will be nasty on the Demons hehe. But on a unit of stormvermin pushing a bell it will be nasty too. Get a deathy frenzy off on them and watch out.

Skyre lists may struggle in scenario#3 if you have lots of little units. DoC has a lot of small units too (ei flamers, hounds, fiends, fateweaver, etc) that will get hammered by lightning where as skaven kept to 6-7 big blocks to absorb. DWs/HPAs have 6 wounds each and should survive one lightning storm.

Odominus wrote:Yea the choppa will be nasty on the Demons hehe. But on a unit of stormvermin pushing a bell it will be nasty too. Get a deathy frenzy off on them and watch out.

Skyre lists may struggle in scenario#3 if you have lots of little units. DoC has a lot of small units too (ei flamers, hounds, fiends, fateweaver, etc) that will get hammered by lightning where as skaven kept to 6-7 big blocks to absorb. DWs/HPAs have 6 wounds each and should survive one lightning storm.

In a test game vs skaven, I put choppa on my horrors, and they were a might fine combat unit. I think for Fateweaver, I'm taking 2 life spells, wind blast and comet of cassandora for healing, area denial and being able to move a unit on the last turn of the game in sec 3. My TZ herald is a life mage as well so, I think that my build suits these secnarios.

I agree with Windblast on scenario #3. Could be a nice little surprise for your opponent!

How did your test game finish? How did that unit fare overall?

For sec two test game it ended up total 24 points for me 0 for opponent. Turn 1 I dropped dwellers on his stormvermin and bell unit. He lost the seer. The horrors with skulltaker marched across the table taking 2 units of 30 rats and the remainder of stormvermin and bell and were rock solid.

Acardia wrote:
I think for Fateweaver, I'm taking 2 life spells, wind blast and comet of cassandora for healing, area denial and being able to move a unit on the last turn of the game in sec 3.

YOINK! Idea stolen.....

gardeth wrote:

Acardia wrote:
I think for Fateweaver, I'm taking 2 life spells, wind blast and comet of cassandora for healing, area denial and being able to move a unit on the last turn of the game in sec 3.

YOINK! Idea stolen.....

Ouchie. Well hopefully you won't play anyone who has seen this thread

At my FLGS there is going to be only 3 players attending :( Atleast I am guaranteed top 3 haha.

Tomb King wrote:At my FLGS there is going to be only 3 players attending :( Atleast I am guaranteed top 3 haha.

That happened for me the first year the Fantasy 'Ard Boyz ran. Makes for a relaxing day, though we went with a random prize draw, and I came out on the bottom of that.

I was just hoping they'd fix the random game length on Mission #3, sometime in the past month. As-is, the game ends on a 3+ on turn 4. Plan accordingly!

Janthkin wrote:
I was just hoping they'd fix the random game length on Mission #3, sometime in the past month. As-is, the game ends on a 3+ on turn 4. Plan accordingly!

CHARGE!!...the objective

Just got back from 'Ard Boyz, qualified with Dark Elves.

Mission Three was worse than I thought it would be. In five turns lightning rolled four times, meaning both Hydras and all my cold one knights were gone on turn two.

How did everyone else do?

Hi

I finished first... in a two man event... played a nice guy who has played half as many games (6) as I have been playing in years (13)...

Cheers,
Nate

I took first at my flgs. Tomb kings prevailed

Me and my opponent auto drawed the last round though. Niether of us wanted to waste are time on it and he was dwarfs and wasnt gonna be able to get to it probably in that time with my shooting army and I just didnt feel up to it.

round 1: massacre against vampire counts (site was an issue some of the time but I still managed to get my shots in)

Round 2: massacre (Faced and empire gun line he had 4 great cannons and 2 morters) Naturally 3 catapults outshot them. P.S. A unit of chariots with the blood soaked choppa is broken. A unit champion defeated an arch lector in a challenge.

Round 3: As stated above drawed the game.

Spoils: picking up two sphinx and the new tk rule book!

I took first with daemons.

My WoC opponent got hit much harder by the one Lightning result, as his Disc Lord got fragged by the d3 wounds, a Warshrine died, Hellcannon handlers died, Knights died, etc.

I won round two via the "+1 for charging downhill bonus," when 40 Horrors, 12 Bloodletters, and 6 Fiends slammed into 1200 VPs worth of Orc Big 'Uns and many attached characters.

Masque + Icon of Despair remains brutal.

@Tomb King - I'm assuming we'll see you up in Omaha for semifinals then?

Round 3 was insane. We rolled lightning on the first two turns. My opponent lost all 3 warp lightning cannons, both aboms, all giant rat and gutter runner squads, and all his weapons teams. I lost a herald, my bloodthirster, all my fiends, and my flamers. That's just from the lightning. We were down to our big ass blocks. He got off four IF 13th spells in four turns, but I kept him off the objective for the draw. I'm moving onto semis, but I'm not taking daemons again. That scenario one kill points mission makes my fiend (8 points) worth more kill points than my daemonettes, bloodletters, and horrors put together.

TimmyMWD wrote:@Tomb King - I'm assuming we'll see you up in Omaha for semifinals then?

Round 3 was insane. We rolled lightning on the first two turns. My opponent lost all 3 warp lightning cannons, both aboms, all giant rat and gutter runner squads, and all his weapons teams. I lost a herald, my bloodthirster, all my fiends, and my flamers. That's just from the lightning. We were down to our big ass blocks. He got off four IF 13th spells in four turns, but I kept him off the objective for the draw. I'm moving onto semis, but I'm not taking daemons again. That scenario one kill points mission makes my fiend (8 points) worth more kill points than my daemonettes, bloodletters, and horrors put together.

Ill be there and hopefully dont have the same thing happen last year where I chose to withdraw from the tournament because of an opponent's blatant abuse of the system/rules. Not to be reflected on Omaha which is a nice store and actually enjoyed my other 2 games there. I am interested on what builds I can bring with the new army book coming in.

I WISH I had gotten a Lightning roll. My VC opponent had his Helm of Commandment vampire running around outside a unit for 2-3 turns. He also had a Black Coach. My army was built to practically ignore the lightning (four big units, one of which was Dragon Ogres). And we didn't roll it once. :(

Unfortunately, I missed my alarm and didn't wake in time.

However, I made $50 cleaning my own house when the 2 college kids my wife hired to do it didn't show up.

Sounds like a win to me.

The prize support was reduced this year, so I think that actually equals first place, when you figure in a 20% online discount.

The first mission of the second round will suck for undead armies! :(

SCENARIO SPECIAL RULES
Tzeentch watches eagerly at the battle to come, and has
intervened for his own personal pleasure. Even the
strongest of wizards can not combat the Changer of
Ways. Every time a wizard casts a spell or uses a
bound item, roll a D6. On a 1 the model must roll on the
miscast table and apply the affects. This may cause the
wizard to roll twice on the miscast table if he actually
miscasts while casting the spell.
Note: This affect will work against any model that has a
magic level and can cast spells or use bound items.
Models with no magic level are unaffected.

P.S. What happens with Teclis and Some of the Slann?

Yes, I have the same question. If Teclis rolls a 1 on the special rules for scenario 1 of the semis can he negate it with his crown? Also, how is throne of vines going to interact with that special rule?

Worth emailing GW about ASAP.

I suspect that, given the clear intent of the scenario, even units which are normally immune to miscasts will have to eat this one.

I would say that Teclis only ignores the 1st miscast each round that he actually causes by casting. All others are fair game.

I think the line, "Even the strongest of wizards can not combat the Changer of Ways." Kind of sums it up...

Im just confused how they make 3 decent missions for round 2 and totally screw them up in round 1.

I liked round 1's missions, with the exception of the last one. It was too easy for someone to push the draw, and my list nails characters much much harder than most peoples.

The other 2 were okay.. The problem is 1 bad mission is a huge failure for any 3 round tournament. 33% failure rate isnt a good thing.. for anyone

Fearspect wrote:I think the line, "Even the strongest of wizards can not combat the Changer of Ways." Kind of sums it up...

I agree with this ruling

TimmyMWD wrote:@
Round 3 was insane. We rolled lightning on the first two turns. My opponent lost all 3 warp lightning cannons, both aboms, all giant rat and gutter runner squads, and all his weapons teams. I lost a herald, my bloodthirster, all my fiends, and my flamers. That's just from the lightning..

I had the same thing happen in round 3. Except whereas I lost 12 hounds, 4 fiends, Kairos, 6 flamers, 12 plaguebearers and 11 bloodletters, he only lost a shaman, a salamander and a few saurus and temple guard. Meaning I had nothing left to really fight against him, despite having broken through his center on the end of turn 1!

Worst scenario I have seen.

Tomb King wrote:

Fearspect wrote:I think the line, "Even the strongest of wizards can not combat the Changer of Ways." Kind of sums it up...

I agree with this ruling

Fateweaver will be saving his reroll.

Also Horrors use their own miscast chart I'd assume.

3rd round was brutal. I lost all of my fiends on the first lightning. he lost a HPA, all jezzails right away.

I don't really see how Fateweaver can change the ways of the Changer of Ways.

Well it says any D6 in the rules, once per player turn.

I just got an email back from GW customer service. The email told me to call them to chat about it. So, I don't have any written record of the conversation, but here's what he said. T

he TO of the semi finals event that you attend needs to give the ruling on whether or not Teclis can negate the miscast, Throne of Vines, and Fateweaver, etc. for round one of the semis.

I asked for his personal opinion and he said if he were the TO he'd say no as the scenario rules trump everything.


DAH

Well less than a week away. I guess most lists are done at this point and everyone has at least practiced one scenario from round 2 of Ardz.

Is everyone feeling fairly confident with their choices at this point? Is your list ready for 4 hydras? 2 Abombs? 2 Stanks? Teclis/Fateweaver? -2 LD DoC banner?

Odominus wrote:Well less than a week away. I guess most lists are done at this point and everyone has at least practiced one scenario from round 2 of Ardz.

Is everyone feeling fairly confident with their choices at this point? Is your list ready for 4 hydras? 2 Abombs? 2 Stanks? Teclis/Fateweaver? -2 LD DoC banner?

IMHO mission one is affecting the meta game more than any of them. Not being able to take rare's hurts some armies more then others. A daemon player and a chaos player can both get by without even taking a rare and still have a very competitive list. KP refusal will be key. The challenge is to build a low kp army that can still fight competitively in the other missions.

Even as a DoC player I'm leaning towards a list with 2 full squads of Flamers. To advance we'll need 3 victories- at least 2 major/massacre. As such the simple victories offered by a triple-horde daemons list seem insufficient. I figure I either need to table my first opponent, or keep the li'l buggers alive via either LD bomb/fear interaction and/or resurrection from lore of life (35 point, 2 wound "infantry" models yah!)

On the note of needing to table an opponent, my current list lacks furies. Yes... Furies. Those terrible winged things we all laugh at. You know who doesn't laugh at furies though? -7 LD units that are fleeing but won't hit the table edge before the game ends. Do you know how badly it makes me want to tear my hair out to trade a horde-rank of Bloodletters from my BSBs unit to put in FURIES? I'd cut the aforementioned KP juicy Flamers, but paired (or tripled) units of Flamers seem to be effected by Lancasters Square Law Of Tank Warfare.

As for the first scenarios magic gimping, I've decided to focus Fateweavers magic on nukes rather than chain casting efficient spells that round. Playing conservatively might win games... But to get that trip to Sacramento i know it's "Go big or go home." Here's hoping for a gunline...

Tomb King wrote:
IMHO mission one is affecting the meta game more than any of them. Not being able to take rare's hurts some armies more then others. A daemon player and a chaos player can both get by without even taking a rare and still have a very competitive list. KP refusal will be key. The challenge is to build a low kp army that can still fight competitively in the other missions.

Yea game one is a doosey. Agreed, KP denial is huge!

Indiges wrote:As for the first scenarios magic gimping, I've decided to focus Fateweavers magic on nukes rather than chain casting efficient spells that round. Playing conservatively might win games... But to get that trip to Sacramento i know it's "Go big or go home."

You got it. Cast big to avoid excessive amounts of scenario rolls. As I mentioned earlier, Warrior Priests and Arch Lectors have a huge advantage as their bound spell prayers are not effected by the scenario. Now get some furies in your list!