It’s a question that has been bugging me for years.
To me it seems just as bad in principle as racism and discrimination based upon skin colour or nationality. Is there any reason for the abuse that is targeted at those with red coloured hair? Is it simply a case of targeting a minority? It seems to be more accepted than skin colour/nationality based racism from all that I have witnessed, even on this forum I have seen people refer to less desirable codices/units/etc as ‘red headed step children’ to denote them.
And yes, I am ginger and have suffered insults and bullying because of this, but this isn’t a thread for whining about my own personal woes, I have just never understood why it is so acceptable in modern society (or at least appears to be). The only historical origin I can think of is the conflict with red headed ‘barbarians’ from Scotland/Ireland. So Dakka, what are your thoughts? And do you have any insight on why this prejudice even exists?
Samus_aran115 wrote:
Red head guys are weirdos. Freaks, IMO.
Care to elaborate why? The reason for people thinking this has perplexed me since when I, as well as others I know, started getting similar abuse in my first year of secondary school.
I have a feeling this has a strong British element to it, I can remember this kind of thing all the way back to my early school days.
It maybe the same in the states, but it's long been a running joke in this country.
On saying that I truly dislike it, I have enough things to worry about in my life, than to start belittling people because of minor differences like hair colour.
Sadly it's not taken very seriously as a negative either, many comedians still use 'red head' jokes in their acts with little fear of reprisal, yet have long since dropped ethnic jokes about other colours or creeds. I've also seen plenty of stories of red heads suffering a lot of abuse due to something that was utterly beyond their control.
To be more serious I've never come across it outside of children's playgrounds and light hearted jokes.
Bullies can and will take the piss about any feature you might have whether it is ginger hair, big eyebrows or unusual stature which neatly explains the former.
If you are really so flustered by insults to your hair colour in a light hearted fashion then dye it or grow thicker skin.
I think it's just because of the South Park episode, I've never really heard anyone make fun of gingers before it. I love women with red hair, in fact I think they are some of the hottest women in the world. Yes, I do make fun of my ginger friends, but t's all in jest, All my friends know I make fun of everyone and everything, but if it ever offended one of them I'd stop.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I have a feeling this has a strong British element to it, I can remember this kind of thing all the way back to my early school days.
It maybe the same in the states, but it's long been a running joke in this country.
On saying that I truly dislike it, I have enough things to worry about in my life, than to start belittling people because of minor differences like hair colour.
Sadly it's not taken very seriously as a negative either, many comedians still use 'red head' jokes in their acts with little fear of reprisal, yet have long since dropped ethnic jokes about other colours or creeds. I've also seen plenty of stories of red heads suffering a lot of abuse due to something that was utterly beyond their control.
Like that MIA video of the government rounding up the redheads?
Like that MIA video of the government rounding up the redheads?
When that video caused the momentay news flutter due to the nature of it, which I believe was to highlight genocide. Some news Stations in the UK picked up it and actually ran some comentaries about how redheads do seem to suffer abuse just due to their hair colour and ran some stories about what some folks had been forced to put up with in their youth, or even as adults.
I think ginger is a wonderful spice. Sure, it's only thought of in the form of gingerbread, but it works well in limited amounts with fish or in candy making.
sillyboy wrote:It comes from christianity, It was believed that ginger kids had the devils blood in them. And therefor couldn't be trusted.
Tada
Wait what? SO is that why the Brits hated the Irish for so long? Because one side said they were descended from the Devil himself? Why do i have a feeling the Irish used this to their advantage?
corpsesarefun wrote:Yeah, one of my mates is indian and we regularly make jokey comments about his skin tone.
Why don't you go up to a man of Indian decent who is not part of your in group and make the same jokes and see how that works out. Funny story, there was this chick that called a friend of mine a, well, it isn't a nice word for black person, but thought it was ok becuase she had dated some black men. Yeah, it wasn't and she still had to go. Just becuase you have a personal relationship with someone of a certain ethnicity doesn't give insight to all people of that background or a free pass to say stupid things. What one can get away with with their friends doesn't apply to the outside world.
corpsesarefun wrote:
If you are really so flustered by insults to your hair colour in a light hearted fashion then dye it or grow thicker skin.
I'm not, I don't mind light hearted jokes, but would you say the same about people who are belittled for their skin colour?
Yeah, one of my mates is indian and we regularly make jokey comments about his skin tone.
The point is gakkers who are serious are going to be gakkers whether you are ginger or not and there is nothing wrong with your friends jibing you.
Work with an Indian company. Dont make jokes about skin tone but we regularly pick on the freshies As the 'token' member of staff insults get hurled back at me.
I don't think that comments about hair colour are as common today as they were, maybe, a decade or two ago. About the best that gets thrown at one of my drinking buddies is 'alright Ginge'.
Oh @Samus - Audrey Hollander may be a tiny bit cute (if you like that sort of thing) but you have to ask yourself
2008 AVN Award for Most Outrageous Sex Scene - Ass Blasting Felching Anal Whores
corpsesarefun wrote: Yeah, one of my mates is indian and we regularly make jokey comments about his skin tone.
Fair enough, for the record my friends and I joke about my hair colour often with no malice intended. What annoys me is when people who don't know me openly insult me because of my hair colour, it just doesn't make sense. Within a group and with consent I'm not all that bothered about it, it's when it happens between people who don't necessarily know each other/aren't friends/etc.
Edit: Ahtman said it well.
corpsesarefun wrote: The point is gakkers who are serious are going to be gakkers whether you are ginger or not and there is nothing wrong with your friends jibing you.
Like that MIA video of the government rounding up the redheads?
When that video caused the momentay news flutter due to the nature of it, which I believe was to highlight genocide. Some news Stations in the UK picked up it and actually ran some comentaries about how redheads do seem to suffer abuse just due to their hair colour and ran some stories about what some folks had been forced to put up with in their youth, or even as adults.
I think it was painfully obvious that the gingers in the video were used as imagery to something bigger, like genocide. Though, and while I am not from the UK, it is my understanding that gingers do get picked on. Though to me it seems like school yard bully antics, and not what an actual adult would do. Kids are mean every where in the world I would assume.
corpsesarefun wrote:Yeah, one of my mates is indian and we regularly make jokey comments about his skin tone.
Why don't you go up to a man of Indian decent who is not part of your in group and make the same jokes and see how that works out. Funny story, there was this chick that called a friend of mine a, well, it isn't a nice word for black person, but thought it was ok becuase she had dated some black men. Yeah, it wasn't and she still had to go. Just becuase you have a personal relationship with someone of a certain ethnicity doesn't give insight to all people of that background or a free pass to say stupid things. What one can get away with with their friends doesn't apply to the outside world.
Well duh, I meant that within your group of friends jibes shouldn't really be a problem.
Banter between mates-absolutely ok. If my friend insults me due to my size, colour, the car that i drive or whatever-its a joke.
I have the joy of having ginger facial hair, and proceded to dye my hair black, thus in the pub was refered to as duracell for a while.
Are there really ginger people who get offended by being called ginge, etc? now skin, sexuality, etc i can understand being offended about, but the colour of your hair-seriously? i think there are bigger things to worry about than that.
Crom wrote:
I think it was painfully obvious that the gingers in the video were used as imagery to something bigger, like genocide. Though, and while I am not from the UK, it is my understanding that gingers do get picked on. Though to me it seems like school yard bully antics, and not what an actual adult would do. Kids are mean every where in the world I would assume.
Sadly I have seen plenty of news reports to suggest folks can be picked on regardless of age, things shouted across the street etc. If you are a young lad, it might roll off your back, but how about a lady in her thirtys with a couple of kids in tow. That was one of the examples I saw on the news channel focus.
It's not common, but it happens, although I do think there is a sad truth to corpses note about some gakkers are going to be gakkers, no matter the actual situation they are laying into at that moment.
Yes I find red headed women attractive, but then again I find most women attractive.
Also there is this guy who goes to the same university as I do and he has this huge mop of really thick red/orange hair (natural, you can tell) and damn does it look fine... no homo.
Are there people offended by being called ginge
Probably, because of the context and meaning that goes along with it.
Abusing people because of the colour of their hair is not justified by the defense that the target should toughen up.
Rather the butt that makes the remark should wise up.
No I am not ginger but I have family that are and it is offensive. Don't see why the thickness of my skin needs to be on a par with the thickness of an abusive pillocks head.
...because people are way too sensitive, and that's a bad thing. Really, the world is not a soft place - and we are not slaves to everyone's feelings and sense of self-esteem. You have an obligation to yourself to toughen up. That, or you can wander around perpetually unhappy and feeling put-upon.
Damn, we have a lot of wusses around here these days.
Not everyone is a big macho hard as nails tough guy as you, and even if they were the constant unoriginal sniping and carping on about the colour of someone's hair is purile and tedious.
How dare you patronise me by telling me life is hard.
You have no idea what another member of Dakka has had to deal with personally and for all I know you are a pampered teenager swathed in mommies bubblewrap.
If life is tough there is even more reason not to give someone a hard time over the colour of their hair. Chirssakes grow up and go give the gits that are making life tough a hard time.
Haha...I wasn't trying to start a fight. I don't care who you are, and who I am doesn't matter - I give everyone to same advice on this issue.
There's no down-side to toughening up. And I do give bullies a hard time, every chance I get. But part of that is taking away their ammunition. There is NO upside to showing people that something bothers you. It makes no sense; because most of them will note it for later use against you. This can be teasing and humorous, to malicious and hurtful - to outright injurious. So...why play into their hands?
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Not everyone is a big macho hard as nails tough guy as you, and even if they were the constant unoriginal sniping and carping on about the colour of someone's hair is purile and tedious.
How dare you patronise me by telling me life is hard.
You have no idea what another member of Dakka has had to deal with personally and for all I know you are a pampered teenager swathed in mommies bubblewrap.
If life is tough there is even more reason not to give someone a hard time over the colour of their hair. Chirssakes grow up and go give the gits that are making life tough a hard time.
Except that would require real balls.
Here Here!
With the exception of Bubble Wrap. That is always appropriate, no matter the situation.
Everyone carries the genes to produce redheaded children. It is recessive, and every so often a generation spawns one. Though genetics increase/decrease the chances of spawning one. Some countries/races/ethnic groups are more or less common with this trait. I don't really see why this is even an issue. Sounds really like a pop culture thing really more than anything.
I did have a redhead gf, then swapped her for a blonde a bit closer to home and more my age, yup i was dating somebody 10 years older than me, just by luck i was 17 at the time.
Its always been romoured that redheds have more fun in the bedroom, sadly i wouldnt know tho.
Exactly. This is a non-issue. They don't burn them at birth anymore. Honestly. If you got beat up "for being a red-head" there was probably more at work in that instance than just the color of your hair. Bullies will use any excuse. Hair color works as well as anything else.
Southpark episodes and comments by Top Gear hosts are HUMOR. It is pop culture. There's no Ginger Jihad in the offing. Plenty of better things to be concerned about out there without fabricating injustices.
Non-issue? It is only humou? Really? The fragility and transparency of these excuses are pitiful. Pop culture ? I didn't realise that Ginger was the new Black. Okay let's with the Thicko Paddy jokes and Chalkie Sambo fun all over again. Do you seriously expect me to believe that a victim of bullying will be reassured by that it was just the colour of their hair? That's alright then, carry on as you were...
If you are ginger and constantly having to put up with the gakk then it might be seen as something more than a "non-issue".
Because people rightly can no longer get away with popular stereotyping and insulting people on the grounds of ethnicity. does not mean shifting such reprehensible attitudes to someone just because they have a given hair colour and complexion is justifiable.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Okay let's with the Thicko Paddy jokes and Chalkie Sambo fun all over again. Do you seriously expect me to believe that a victim of bullying will be reassured by that it was just the colour of their hair? That's alright then, carry on as you were...
Huh?
It appears that this is a more widespread problem in the UK than it is on this side of the pond.
Yes. It's a non-issue. Show me the stats on "ginger-hazing". Where's this 'epidemic'. Where's the huge social injustice undertaken by the evil Brunettes and Blonds of the world. Give me a break.
Imagine a world where no one gave a @#$% if you used the n-word, or told a Polish joke. It is demonstrably true when such things don't get a response, they stop.
Understand the bully. His goal is to get a rise out of you. That's what lets things escalate into a fight. Disarm him at the start and, guess what? No fight. Huh. How about that? Got any other incredible wisdom for us?
(Psst, by the way - we're on the same side.)
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biccat wrote:
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Okay let's with the Thicko Paddy jokes and Chalkie Sambo fun all over again. Do you seriously expect me to believe that a victim of bullying will be reassured by that it was just the colour of their hair? That's alright then, carry on as you were...
Huh?
It appears that this is a more widespread problem in the UK than it is on this side of the pond.
Not really. Their TV hosts can make comments on national television that with our over-sensitive American wuss population, would have legions of political correctness Nazis screaming to have them sacked.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Non-issue?
It is only humou? Really?
The fragility and transparency of these excuses are pitiful.
Pop culture ?
I didn't realise that Ginger was the new Black.
Okay let's with the Thicko Paddy jokes and Chalkie Sambo fun all over again. Do you seriously expect me to believe that a victim of bullying will be reassured by that it was just the colour of their hair? That's alright then, carry on as you were...
If you are ginger and constantly having to put up with the gakk then it might be seen as something more than a "non-issue".
Because people rightly can no longer get away with popular stereotyping and insulting people on the grounds of ethnicity. does not mean shifting such reprehensible attitudes to someone just because they have a given hair colour and complexion is justifiable.
Yeah it is pop culture...as in it is being exploited on TV, comedy, music videos, etc. This is not a real world issue, this is not even a huge issue. This is a first world problem created by pop culture. Any adult who is mildly mature will know that a person is a person. Some people use their situation to their advantage, or cry wolf. help, help I am being oppressed I am a ginger! When in reality, they aren't being oppressed. It is just like anyone who is not attractive, over weight, socially awkward, or whatever else people judge you on.
Otherwise I agree with you. People get judged by their character and their actions, not the color of their hair. Sometimes people just like to use certain things as an excuse to abuse people, just like some people use that same excuse to always be a victim.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If it is a non issue why are you justifying ridiculing people because of their hair colour?
Doesn't matter if it is just one red haired person being upset by morons, it is not acceptable.
Sorry, I am not saying it is justifiable. I am saying it is a non issue because if someone never thought up the concept of using someone's hair color to bully someone, and they wanted to bully someone, they would just use another excuse. Growing up in the states it wasn't ever your hair color. it was the clothes you wore, the people you hung out with, the music you listened to, the way you looked (over or under weight), and your social skills. People who got picked on and bullied were typically not because they were a ginger or a redhead, at least not where I grew up.
They will always find an excuse, and the whole prejudice thing against redheads is a non issue. I don't see hate groups of 10s of thousands (or more) of people pushing an anti redhead movement like I do other hate groups.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If it is a non issue why are you justifying ridiculing people because of their hair colour?
Doesn't matter if it is just one red haired person being upset by morons, it is not acceptable.
No one is justifying it. In case you had not noticed, we were problem-solving (for a non problem, yet).
The fallacy you seem to be operating under is that declaring it "unacceptable" actually has any effect. Politicians declare terrorist acts "unacceptable" about 3 times a week, yet still it goes on.
If the response to any sort of hazing for something stupid like hair color, or body weight, or...whatever, was "whatever" - THAT would be FAR more effective than whining about the attempt to tease in the first place. The former short-circuits the attempted attack, the latter *specifically* encourages and escalates it.
VoidAngel wrote:" Sometimes people just like to use certain things as an excuse to abuse people, just like some people use that same excuse to always be a victim."
Well said. Less victimhood, please.
I've been beaten up, and I have been picked on but I never once let it get to me. I was never a victim. Ended up winning a few of those fights too growing up. I know some people who just love being a victim.
VoidAngel wrote:" Sometimes people just like to use certain things as an excuse to abuse people, just like some people use that same excuse to always be a victim."
Well said. Less victimhood, please.
I've been beaten up, and I have been picked on but I never once let it get to me. I was never a victim. Ended up winning a few of those fights too growing up. I know some people who just love being a victim.
Me too. To the point where I realized that complaining about it and feeling hurt were useless, and this became the impetus to DO something about it. And then I decided to teach other people how to do something about it. An avocation at which I have been very successful.
I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, but I'm just popping in to say that I have no issue with ginger ladies. It's all I can do stop myself from posting another gratuitous pic of Amy Adams to prove my point.
As for ginger men, well I don't cross the road to avoid them, but they have no Amy Adams equivalent.
In a long and fruitful relationship with a redhead wife
Own a Jaguar (preferably the car, although I could do with a nice big... cat to go with my wife... (The joke doesn't work as much when you can't infer the meaning well >.< Own a reasonable-sized house
Have enough money for necessities and a bit of luxury
Have 2/3/4 kids
Finally become a good enough writer to pen my own fiction novel (unfortunately by preferred topic has been exhausted - dragons/dragon riders + elves + dwarves...)
At least 3 of these will not be possible without a loving redhead wife (1st one is obvious, as are kids, and there'll probably be a character based on her in some way somewhere in the novel).
Everytime you insult a redhead, you insult my dreams.
Flashman wrote:I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, but I'm just popping in to say that I have no issue with ginger ladies. It's all I can do stop myself from posting another gratuitous pic of Amy Adams to prove my point.
As for ginger men, well I don't cross the road to avoid them, but they have no Amy Adams equivalent.
Oh by all means post tons of pics of Amy Adams, I am a fan myself.
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Avatar 720 wrote:'My life' as hoped for by Avatar 720:
In a long and fruitful relationship with a redhead wife
Own a Jaguar (preferably the car, although I could do with a nice big... cat to go with my wife... (The joke doesn't work as much when you can't infer the meaning well >.< Own a reasonable-sized house
Have enough money for necessities and a bit of luxury
Have 2/3/4 kids
Finally become a good enough writer to pen my own fiction novel (unfortunately by preferred topic has been exhausted - dragons/dragon riders + elves + dwarves...)
At least 3 of these will not be possible without a loving redhead wife (1st one is obvious, as are kids, and there'll probably be a character based on her in some way somewhere in the novel).
Everytime you insult a redhead, you insult my dreams.
I haven't written anything substantial yet (got something going in the Fiction part of Dakka, but it's not exactly novel-quality), but if I were to write something then my preffered genre would be fantasy, containing dragons, elves, dwarves, magic etc. etc. Something that has been done to absolute death.
I said absolute death, there are only so many ways you can say "Dragon rider" without someone seeing it and going "Oh, so it's a rip-off of ______... imaginative..." no matter how well it reads.
Crom wrote:I love to write I just never finish anything. One of these days I will and send it out to get published or just release it for free.
I'm similar, whenever I write something it's often just a spur of the moment thing that last a few days and then subsides, at which point I just leave it, as my other examples of forced writing have been terrible.
Avatar 720 wrote:I said absolute death, there are only so many ways you can say "Dragon rider" without someone seeing it and going "Oh, so it's a rip-off of ______... imaginative..." no matter how well it reads.
What about small dragons that ride people?
And just to keep this topic on track:
And one more (slightly NSFW)
Spoiler:
EDIT: @dirkthe1: Sorry, no idea. And if I did, I wouldn't just give away such valuable info.
Can we stop comparing gingers with groups that actually suffer real, institutional bias, like black people? Because someone saying something mean in the playground is really not the same thing as institutional racism.
And yes, somethings some kids say in the playground are meanspirited towards redheads. Those comments aren't cool, but they're no different to picking on a kid because he's unusually tall, or has a big ears or whatever else. They're not nice, but it's just playground bullying, and totally different to actual racial oppression.
This is getting confused with a lot of humour people throw around about gingers. These are light hearted jokes, where the point is to make fun of the silliness of prejudice by using a target no-one actually holds any antipathy towards.
We used to make the same jokes with the French as the 'target', where we were really mocking nationalism, but then French had the gall to refuse to support a stupid war, and a lot of Americans started taking the jokes very seriously, thereby ruining all those jokes.
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I think ginger is a wonderful spice. Sure, it's only thought of in the form of gingerbread, but it works well in limited amounts with fish or in candy making.
Actualy ginger can be used in a great marinade, especialy in teryaki beef. Never tried it one fish yet so you my good sir have given me my nest fish dish idea
The french deserve everything any has ever been directed toward them. Gingers....not so much. You are comparing apples and anvils.
And there are no stupid wars, only stupid hippies. ;-P
Seriously, the french refused to support an ally that had fought and died FOR THEM, over an oil deal they'd cut with a genocidal madman. Don't gloss over that part. The war isn't about oil, but the french and Germans not doing their part when asked...was.
VoidAngel wrote:The french deserve everything any has ever been directed toward them. Gingers....not so much. You are comparing apples and anvils.
And there are no stupid wars, only stupid hippies. ;-P
Seriously, the french refused to support an ally that had fought and died FOR THEM, over an oil deal they'd cut with a genocidal madman. Don't gloss over that part. The war isn't about oil, but the french and Germans not doing their part when asked...was.
Really, dude? Still?
It was a stupid war*. They said 'this is a stupid war'. The claims about secret deals were greatly exagerated, the country making the most profit from food for oil wroughts was the US, Russia was second.
They supported and sent troops into Afghanistan. They just didn't follow into Iraq. Because it was a stupid war.
Seriously, let it go. There was a lot of crazy going around at the time. We all want to move past it. If you can just accept this, then the real antipathy to the French can disappear faster, and we can go back to telling French jokes sooner.
*The line about stupid hippies was funny. Points for that.
Avatar 720 wrote:I said absolute death, there are only so many ways you can say "Dragon rider" without someone seeing it and going "Oh, so it's a rip-off of ______... imaginative..." no matter how well it reads.
A blond, a brunette, and a redhead went to get a job.
All of them had great references, and excellent work history, and passed the drug test and background check and so on.
The manager asked each several questions, one was "what makes you stand out from the other applicants?"
The blond replied: "well, like, yknow, i'm like totally a people person, and I am really friendly I'll be like great with customers!"
The brunette replied: "I can do things for myself, and I can be self directed. I am determined to be the best at what I do and if I'm good at something I want to be the best at it!"
The redhead replied: "I have a firey personality. I don't give up easily I can fight for my goals if I have to and I am passionate about my work!"
Q: so who got the job?
A: the one with the biggest boobs.
moral of the story: who cares? what's the real stigma going on here? I have never met anyone who was prejudiced against a haircolor except people who make a big deal about their haircolor. People might have a prejudice against people who like to find ways of making themselves out as victims though but that's bringing it on themselves.
Second theory: it's not the red hair, it's the accompanying pale skin and freckles.
Guitardian wrote:A blond, a brunette, and a redhead went to get a job.
All of them had great references, and excellent work history, and passed the drug test and background check and so on.
The manager asked each several questions, one was "what makes you stand out from the other applicants?"
The blond replied: "well, like, yknow, i'm like totally a people person, and I am really friendly I'll be like great with customers!"
The brunette replied: "I can do things for myself, and I can be self directed. I am determined to be the best at what I do and if I'm good at something I want to be the best at it!"
The redhead replied: "I have a firey personality. I don't give up easily I can fight for my goals if I have to and I am passionate about my work!"
VoidAngel wrote:The french deserve everything any has ever been directed toward them. Gingers....not so much. You are comparing apples and anvils.
And there are no stupid wars, only stupid hippies. ;-P
Seriously, the french refused to support an ally that had fought and died FOR THEM, over an oil deal they'd cut with a genocidal madman. Don't gloss over that part. The war isn't about oil, but the french and Germans not doing their part when asked...was.
Really, dude? Still?
It was a stupid war*. They said 'this is a stupid war'. The claims about secret deals were greatly exagerated, the country making the most profit from food for oil wroughts was the US, Russia was second.
They supported and sent troops into Afghanistan. They just didn't follow into Iraq. Because it was a stupid war.
Seriously, let it go. There was a lot of crazy going around at the time. We all want to move past it. If you can just accept this, then the real antipathy to the French can disappear faster, and we can go back to telling French jokes sooner.
*The line about stupid hippies was funny. Points for that.
Truth is eternal. But hey, why cover this ground together again? I fully support your desire to get back to french jokes with all speed.
On the (original) subject of redheads, I can say I've never felt any prejudice towards them, of either gender. My mom had red hair so I could very well have ended up one myself.
On the (not original but much more fun) subject of redheads:
Samus_aran115 wrote:Red head chicks are freaking hot. Oh my god, especiallly when their hair is down their back, and it's all big *drools*
Red head guys are weirdos. Freaks, IMO.
For those of you that don't know.... Audrey Hollander. The most attractive adult film star ever(NSFW)
I see Audrey Hollander and raise you Ariel A (who coincidentally is in the pic above me), who is nude model (obviously NSFW but some people here are morons)
But yeah, red headed women are hot as feth cuz.
Gingers are hilarious, and I feel no thread on these carrot tops is complete without
VoidAngel wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,...my eyyyyyyyyyez! If anyone needs me, I'll be thinking about sandpaper, in an effort to erase that image from my brain.
ye godz, may a thousand angry mokeys fling poo at you Vlad...!
If are trying to infer that I have any racist tendencies then you are way out of line.
I suggest you re read my post.
I only feel bad about the amount of derisive drivel some people have to put up with because of a genetic trait; whetrher that be the colour of their skin, the colour of their hair, or their gender.
I suggest if you lack the wit to grasp the content of the comment you should refrain from passing judgement.
Aside from the odd light hearted joke I've never seen any sort of prejudice against red-heads. And in my experience blonds seem to cop more flak in the joke area anyway.
Emperors Faithful wrote:Aside from the odd light hearted joke I've never seen any sort of prejudice against red-heads. And in my experience blonds seem to cop more flak in the joke area anyway.
Really?
"Fanta Pants" made it into the Macqarie Dictionary...
Being a proud Ginger, I've been bullied, for that is what it is outside of your friendship circle, nearly my entire life.
It's interesting to note, it's not merely a recent thing, as the southpark crwod would like you to believe.
If you look to a lot of folklore - red headed people are often of supernatural, evil and godscursed firgures, from werewolves, vampires, ghouls and other myths, it's quite surprising how many in fact - So it's got it's basis in ancient believes.
Now I've got the archetypal passion and short temper and I used to get into a lot of scraps as nipper due to it - was called Mossop the riddler (UK kids tv program) while at school - as an adult, I take it in my stride, but as a fiery teenager, I confronted it daily.
/shrug - I always used to joke that if you called a blonde a bimbo in the work place etc, you'd get slapped hard by HR, but ginger's a re fair game, the last acceptable bigotted viewpoint
Emperors Faithful wrote:Aside from the odd light hearted joke I've never seen any sort of prejudice against red-heads. And in my experience blonds seem to cop more flak in the joke area anyway.
Really?
"Fanta Pants" made it into the Macqarie Dictionary...
Really. We only had one guy with red hair in my final year of school. It was never an issue.
Earthbeard wrote:/shrug - I always used to joke that if you called a blonde a bimbo in the work place etc, you'd get slapped hard by HR, but ginger's a re fair game, the last acceptable bigotted viewpoint
Bimbo isn't restricted to blonds. It's more of a gender issue than an issue of discriminating via hair colour.
I think we've come down a few steps from burning them a birth.
People need to stop crying about dumb @#$% like this (like you did Earthbeard - take a bully down and the rest pay attention).
"Ginger!" Ohhhhh...my widdle feewwings....
This is like going to HR because someone said you were short. Are you short? OK then. Pointing out the obvious is neither a particularly good insult, nor particularly good reason to take offense.
"Ginger! Get him!" That's a bit different...but outside of a schoolyard or a Southpark episode...I don't see it being a global epidemic.
There are better causes to take up defense of. Besides, everyone knows that redheads have insane tempers and will fly into a berzerk rage and kill you if you tease them too much. Or look at them funny. Or if it's a full moon on a Tuesday. Or if the Dow-Jones drops 3.17 points. Or... >;-P
VoidAngel wrote:This is like going to HR because someone said you were short. Are you short? OK then. Pointing out the obvious is neither a particularly good insult, nor particularly good reason to take offense.
By that logic, if someone used the N-word because your black, it would be just as ridiculous; Are you black? Ok then.
If you are mentally slow, and get called "Special"? Too bad, buck up and get over it.
The fact of the matter is is that your making fun of something someone can't change, naturally.
Ah...no. Calling a short person short is stating the obvious. Calling them a midget or dwarf or half-pint is manifestly more in the vein of attempting to insult.
Calling a black person black (by the way, you've no idea my stature or color) is not an insult. Using the n-word, is. Obviously.
VoidAngel wrote:This is like going to HR because someone said you were short. Are you short? OK then. Pointing out the obvious is neither a particularly good insult, nor particularly good reason to take offense.
By that logic, if someone used the N-word because your black, it would be just as ridiculous; Are you black? Ok then.
If you are mentally slow, and get called "Special"? Too bad, buck up and get over it.
The fact of the matter is is that your making fun of something someone can't change, naturally.
VoidAngel wrote:Ah...no. Calling a short person short is stating the obvious. Calling them a midget or dwarf or half-pint is manifestly more in the vein of attempting to insult.
Calling a black person black (by the way, you've no idea my stature or color) is not an insult. Using the n-word, is. Obviously.
What is your argument, exactly?
I do not know your stature or color. But your arguement is terrible.
The N-word isn't offensive. If it was, why would about 50% or more of blacks use it if they were offended by it? Fact is, the N word would have basically died out of the language (Barring the inevitable racists) if it wasn't for Gangsta Blacks saying "Yo N, what's up N, how about we go pop a cap in dat N's ass?"
It's all about how that person takes it, not what you mean it as. Ginger by itself isn't an insult, no, but being called it often enough with whoever having a sneer in their voice certainly is.
Ah...yes, the N-paradox, also known as the "our word" problem. It's not just about how you mean it, it's about the color of the person saying it. This is also known as...discrimination. Neat!
I agree with you that offense most often lies with the offended. In fact, that has been my point this whole thread: don't be offended, and people will stop trying to offend you! Or, at least, don't let on that you are bothered - and they will stop trying to bother you. The net effect is the same. Some donkey hat doesn't get his kicks off of you.
So, my follow up question is - why are we disagreeing? We actually seem to have the same goal.
VoidAngel wrote:Ah...yes, the N-paradox, also known as the "our word" problem. It's not just about how you mean it, it's about the color of the person saying it. This is also known as...discrimination. Neat!
I agree with you that offense most often lies with the offended. In fact, that has been my point this whole thread: don't be offended, and people will stop trying to offend you! Or, at least, don't let on that you are bothered - and they will stop trying to bother you. The net effect is the same. Some donkey hat doesn't get his kicks off of you.
So, my follow up question is - why are we disagreeing? We actually seem to have the same goal.
VoidAngel wrote:I think we've come down a few steps from burning them a birth.
People need to stop crying about dumb @#$% like this (like you did Earthbeard - take a bully down and the rest pay attention).
There are better causes to take up defense of. Besides, everyone knows that redheads have insane tempers and will fly into a berzerk rage and kill you if you tease them too much. Or look at them funny. Or if it's a full moon on a Tuesday. Or if the Dow-Jones drops 3.17 points. Or... >;-P
You seem to get some sort of pleasure from mocking others and finding the most facile excuse to defend it.
For the individual that is being victimised it is a cause worth defending. You seem only to wish to defend your pathetic self justification at mocking and belittling others.
Am sorry for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making others appear ridiculous to your mind.
This constant sniping at people that find such behaviour offensive is getting very tedious.
Use of retaliatory violence is not available to all and sundry. You may find Earthbound herioc, but how is my autistic nephew "to pay attention and take a bully down."
This machismo swaggering is idiotic and short sighted.
Chibi - what is your first language? It does not seem to be English, because you do not seem able to read it.
I may excuse some of your vitriol as an inability to tell when someone is joking in a text format. Here's a hint: the ' >;-P ' at the end of my post means, "said entirely in humor and without malice". I was mocking the stereotype *itself*
OK, now back to your other 'point'.
I AM NOT defending people's right to mock each other (though, in a free society...it IS a right. It may not BE right, but it's protected. Much like Neo-Nazi rallies. You want your Gay Pride parade? Gotta put up with the skinhead circus, sorry.). What I am advocating is a lack of caring about being mocked. Yes, it's best to be able to back that up with a physical defense if pushed to that. Yes I categorically reject your assertion that "retaliatory violence is not available to all and sundry". Twenty years of teaching self-defense to all and sundry qualifies me to tell you in no uncertain terms that, yes, any willing person can be taught to use what resources they have to defend themselves. Now, if you are catatonic or completely out of touch with reality, or disabled to a point where you can not be communicated with...then I can't help you. In that case alone, you'd be right. This has *nothing* to do with swagger or machismo; it has to do with experience and a loathing of self-inflicted helplessness. Sometimes, such a thing is willful, sometimes it is simple ignorance ("I had no idea I could learn to protect myself!"). The latter is sad, the former is unacceptable. Each of us has a basic responsibility to be able to fend for ourselves. You may reject the notion - but that does not change the fact that sometimes there is no help available, and it's better to have *some* ability to resist what an evil person may want to do to you.
There. Do you understand a little better now? I like good people not being hurt by bad people. To me, that has at least two parts: avoid the fight entirely by making the other person powerless to bother you; failing that, remove the other person's *ability* to bother you by means of an effective defense. I am in no way the advocate for malice that you somehow seem to have mistaken me for.
You have consistently harped on about how terrible it is to complain about the harrassment of red headed people.
My nephew is unable to defend himself. Other people are not so forthright and opinionated as you and would find it difficult to stand up to bullying.
You are still inferring that anyone not cut from the same herioc cloth as yourself is weak. Well they maybe weak, that is the way of the world. Harrying them for not being able to defend themselves makes you sound like one of the bullies.
I have taught self-defense, at times for little to no payment, precisely *because* some people are weak. Contributing to a female college freshmen's ability to defend herself the first time away from home is more important to me than money. Ditto poor kids going into integrated schools far from their own neighborhoods; suburbanite workers commuting to urban jobs; shelter residents, rookie police officers going into beats in rough neighborhoods.... I'm not 'harrying' them. The very hardest thing to teach a person IS aggression. The one student I can't help (who is physically capable) is the person who can't bring themselves to harm another human being. I don't understand them, and I don't know why they come to class. I have no magic wand to give such folk.
There are gentle souls; but I contend you can be a gentle soul and still throw a good punch when you have to. I am for people being (or appearing) thick-skinned, and dangerous when cornered. Yep. No apologies there.
As for redheads... My harping is perhaps because...it's not a real problem. In 20 years I never, ever had someone walk into one of my classes and say, "I'm here because of THIS" and point to their red hair.
Oh, and much as I don't like to reveal personal details on the intarnetz - I was happily married to a redhead. I've got nothing against them.
VoidAngel wrote:I think we've come down a few steps from burning them a birth.
People need to stop crying about dumb @#$% like this (like you did Earthbeard - take a bully down and the rest pay attention).
There are better causes to take up defense of. Besides, everyone knows that redheads have insane tempers and will fly into a berzerk rage and kill you if you tease them too much. Or look at them funny. Or if it's a full moon on a Tuesday. Or if the Dow-Jones drops 3.17 points. Or... >;-P
You seem to get some sort of pleasure from mocking others and finding the most facile excuse to defend it.
For the individual that is being victimised it is a cause worth defending. You seem only to wish to defend your pathetic self justification at mocking and belittling others.
Am sorry for you that the only way you can feel good about yourself is by making others appear ridiculous to your mind.
This constant sniping at people that find such behaviour offensive is getting very tedious.
Use of retaliatory violence is not available to all and sundry. You may find Earthbound herioc, but how is my autistic nephew "to pay attention and take a bully down."
This machismo swaggering is idiotic and short sighted.
Hey I got beat just as much as I beat - I'm just a stubborn bull and got a short temper
Violence doesn't solve a damned thing - all it did was scare off a few bullies, but they just came back in bigger packs, or shouted it from across the road instead!
Again, not everyone has a black belt in origami like Void.
Again how is an autistic 10 year old supposed to deal with idiots calling him ginge and upsetting him.
That is fact
Not everyone is like you Void, and for that I am eternally grateful.
The title of the thread is
"Why the prejudice against gingers/red-heads?"
Not "Void is a tough case, cos it's a hard knock life"
go sing it with little orphan Annie pal.
had enough of your self obsessed wranglings
To save everyone else from the tedium I am off out of this.
Anything more to say on the matter keep it to PMs over and out.
(Edited 'cause I missed the request for PMs. PM sent.)
Someone tell me how an effective self-defense = genocidal maniac? I do believe there's some law about internet forums that says you just lost any argument you may have had, Stella.
She didn't actually mention hitler or the nazis, just made a clever allusion. I would say the game is still in play.
Anyway, I do think its sad that "
The N-word isn't offensive. If it was, why would about 50% or more of blacks use it if they were offended by it? Fact is, the N word would have basically died out of the language (Barring the inevitable racists) if it wasn't for Gangsta Blacks saying "Yo N, what's up N, how about we go pop a cap in dat N's ass?"
If I call a back guy N-gg-r/kneegrow whatever it is (all from the Latin for black anyway innit?) it's bad, coz I'm white? Yet gansta rap has more N's and 'be-atches' than most small countries!
Maybe when the gansta rappers refer to G they mean Ginger, not Gansta?
Anyway abusing someone verbally, physically or emotionally because of their hair colour is essentially genetic-ism. Which I guess is what raceism is (because its ok for white Irish to abuse white english and vice versa?)
Additionally I think the red hair = evil is pretty old, like it occurs in the mythology surrounding lilith (or potentially was added on later?). Her copper hair = sexual beast. Oh wait sexy wimmenz = BAD!
So in conclusion red heads = hawt.
The reason that you can't say "this word is offensive" with any certainty proves my point: offense lies with the offended.
I *could* take offense at the word "the". Or "you". Would take make it an "offensive word"? I guess it depends on how mind-controlled by PC you are. "OMG! We can't OFFEND anyone! Doooommz!" Nonsense. We'll all be having our mouths sewn shut in a preemptive attempt to prevent offense if we go down that road much further.
No. You can tell when someone is TRYING to offend. Confucius said it best, "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool. He who takes offense when offense is intended, is a bigger fool."
VoidAngel wrote:The reason that you can't say "this word is offensive" with any certainty proves my point: offense lies with the offended.
I *could* take offense at the word "the". Or "you". Would take make it an "offensive word"? I guess it depends on how mind-controlled by PC you are. "OMG! We can't OFFEND anyone! Doooommz!" Nonsense. We'll all be having our mouths sewn shut in a preemptive attempt to prevent offense if we go down that road much further.
No. You can tell when someone is TRYING to offend. Confucius said it best, "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool. He who takes offense when offense is intended, is a bigger fool."
VoidAngel why don't youthe-ing the you you-ing you-er, the your -ing lorum ipsum you, and a bucket of spoons, you spoon-you-er. While you're at it spoon the the-ing you spoon! You heard me, the jigger in Soviet Russia the the's YOU!
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote: You are quoting out of context.
How so? Your line was drawing a parallel between gingers and the discrimination against blacks by arguing that both have suffered injusitce and been told not to worry based on flimsy reasons.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote: If are trying to infer that I have any racist tendencies then you are way out of line.
How could I possibly have been calling you a racist? Are you trying to be offended?
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote: I suggest you re read my post.
I only feel bad about the amount of derisive drivel some people have to put up with because of a genetic trait; whetrher that be the colour of their skin, the colour of their hair, or their gender.
How are gingers and blacks even close to comparable? Do you have even a single example of gingers suffering the same crap as blacks? Slavery? Institutionalized discrimination by both companies and nations? All you've brought up as examples of the discrimination against gingers are anecdotes about people being teased. People get teased about everything.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote: I suggest if you lack the wit to grasp the content of the comment you should refrain from passing judgement.
Ouch. You sound angry. Those damn gingers and their fiery temperaments. (yeah, I know that I don't know that you're ginger).
Does anyone have any proof that gingers get it any worse than anyone?
Effective use of violence solves quite a few problems.
Seems to cause equally as many as well.
VoidAngel wrote:We'll all be having our mouths sewn shut in a preemptive attempt to prevent offense if we go down that road much further.
Actually we're moving towards digit removal and the burning of keyboards.
Tune in next time folks, when we find some other equally hyperbolic and IQ reducing thread to piss all over. Will it be the situations in the Middle East ? The impending economic collapse of western civilisation ? The fact that it seems weird that Bees are so keen on jam, and yet they spend their time making honey.. what's that all about eh ? Or perhpas even the illicit control of Dakka by a cabal of Jewish bankers for neferious ends.
Either way, there's a good chance you may well wish to gnaw your own arm off and then bleach your eyes.
Not much competition there 
-ing lorum ipsum you, and a bucket of spoons, 