GW has pulled off some good APril Fools gags in the past but I have to say this year's take the cake. I'm in NY for the weekend and stopped at my old FLGS (COmpleat Strategist on 33rd and 5th Ave).
There they had a brand new Codex. Now I suppose I should have checked the calendar but I didn't so I paid my $29 and dug into it.
They really had me going for a minute there, Daemon Hosts and Grey Knights on the same side? C'tan Phase sword is just a power weapon? Monkeys? Filthy dirty poo throwing monkeys with las cannons and multimeltas?
I was ready to toss it against the wall when I remembered it's April 1! I guess the real one comes out tomorrow no?
I'm still flipping through the fluff section, it's like the cut and pasted out of the warseer fanfic forum. Teleporiting moons, daemon primarchs as cannon fodder, the GKs using xenos tech...
Really I think they went too far, if I'd read that first I would have known it was a joke from the start.
Wait, somebody doesn't like the Grey Knights codex? Stop the presses!
The GK/Mat Ward stuff has gotten to be a bit much in my opinion. Yeah, he's a hack. Yeah, the codex has some wackiness to it. Doesn't mean you have to play that army, and if you want to you can skip over the wackier stuff. Whatevs.
Brother SRM wrote:Wait, somebody doesn't like the Grey Knights codex? Stop the presses!
The GK/Mat Ward stuff has gotten to be a bit much in my opinion. Yeah, he's a hack. Yeah, the codex has some wackiness to it. Doesn't mean you have to play that army, and if you want to you can skip over the wackier stuff. Whatevs.
Have you read the grey knights stuff?
With Grey knights smearing the blood of the sisters of battle on their armor?
Brother SRM wrote:Wait, somebody doesn't like the Grey Knights codex? Stop the presses!
The GK/Mat Ward stuff has gotten to be a bit much in my opinion. Yeah, he's a hack. Yeah, the codex has some wackiness to it. Doesn't mean you have to play that army, and if you want to you can skip over the wackier stuff. Whatevs.
Have you read the grey knights stuff?
With Grey knights smearing the blood of the sisters of battle on their armor?
Oh, trust me, I think it's awful too. I just don't have a dozen threads individually devoted to hating on it.
Brother SRM wrote:Wait, somebody doesn't like the Grey Knights codex? Stop the presses!
The GK/Mat Ward stuff has gotten to be a bit much in my opinion. Yeah, he's a hack. Yeah, the codex has some wackiness to it. Doesn't mean you have to play that army, and if you want to you can skip over the wackier stuff. Whatevs.
Have you read the grey knights stuff?
With Grey knights smearing the blood of the sisters of battle on their armor?
Oh, trust me, I think it's awful too. I just don't have a dozen threads individually devoted to hating on it.
Asherian, I'd say this isn't the thread to be debating such a thing, nor would mass-emailing likely work.
Personally, I'd like some more of Kyoto's intelligent(?) humour rather than mindless GK hating.
WAAAAA! GW released a new codex and *pants* it *pants* is *pants* not *pants* cooooooo-oooool!
I think its your own damn fault. You had plenty of opportunity to read and sample the Grey Knight 'dex in a GW store prior to it being released to the masses. You then went and bought it anyway, and then come onto a forum to express your displeasure, despite the fact that there are plenty of pdfs out there that have just the rules and army list sections up.
Who's the real sucker here, Matt Ward or you *gestures towards the internets* for buying his work DESPITE that fact that you knew damn well what it was going to be like.
If mortarion keeps letting crappy mortal 'heroes' carve names into his chest, then what will we have? Uriel Ventris bringing guilliman back to life? C'tan who kill asdrubael vect?
I think Mortarion LET him carve his heart. It solidifies his standing as Chief Goth. He can show it off to all his other Goth friends and they can marvel about its statement about how profound death is and stuff.
I think Mortarion LET him carve his heart. It solidifies his standing as Chief Goth. He can show it off to all his other Goth friends and they can marvel about its statement about how profound death is and stuff.
What?
That doesn't make any sense!
Anyway. IT is stupid that Grey knights cover themselves with the blood of not self sararificing Sisters of Battle but slaughtering them and then covering themselves with the blood of hundreds of Sisters that didn't sararifice themselves for it. They did this to ward off daemons. Even though their armor already does that!
Not only that but Drago carving his name onto a primarch seems impossible. as there is no heart left in a nurgle daemon prince!
BaronIveagh wrote:
I think logic went out the window! We'll Hide Titan in the Warp, From the Powers of the Warp. Malcador is MORE POWERFUL THEN TZEENCH????? WTF?
Yeah, because Tzeentch is omniscient... oh hang on a minute!
BaronIveagh wrote:
I think logic went out the window! We'll Hide Titan in the Warp, From the Powers of the Warp. Malcador is MORE POWERFUL THEN TZEENCH????? WTF?
Yeah, because Tzeentch is omniscient... oh hang on a minute!
lol I'll be right back I need to kill some guardsmen.
Samus_aran115 wrote:The only thing that keeps me playing is the promise of a new CSM codex
i hear they are going to get along with Necrons fairly well once Matt is done with the new Cron codex. Heard rumors that hey might be even MORE buddy-buddy than the BAs
Some of the highlights so far from my reading. For added value I shall write them in "Wardspeak".
"We'll hide the moon Titan in the warp from the gods of the warp because Malcador is a more powerful psyker than Tzeentch so he won't find it and then the GKs have an invisible psy-moon because they are awesome".
"Nobody can know of the GK's at all, even other marines, so everybody ever gets their memories wiped after meeting them (and Marine chapters totally agree to this because they love the GKs even though they don't know about them)"
"To help make ourselves immune to daemonic power (even though we already are anyway according to this very same book) we will murder many sisters of battle and bathe in their blood because that is really pure and then Khorne daemons can't touch us because they hate the blood"
"Grand Master Drago is so hard he wrestles Mortarion (yes, the daemon PRIMARCH) to the floor and carves his name into him to mark him as his bitch, and then Mortarion has to run away"
"GK's are so hard Thawn gets eaten by a Great Unclean One then kills his way out from the inside, and Thawn actually can't die like ever because FATE"
"Drago now lies in the warp and has killed thousands of daemons and greater daemons on his own and is totally invulnerable to the chaos gods who can't stop him and he has even destroyed Tzeentchs whole castle once and Slaaneshs realm lolz"
"Brotherhood champions are so psychic when they die their armour brings them back to life just long enough to kill their killer, and because they are dead it's unstoppable so they can kill like any bad guy at all!"
"Paladins are so awesome that to be one you have to kill 4 daemon heralds and their other daemons unarmed and armoured, then kill one of the biggest greater daemons ever alone, which they can do because only pussies need armour"
"All GKS are totally 100% pure because of the emperor, but Purifiers are more pure, and Crowe is MORE more pure. So he's like, 200% pure, which is awesome"
There's a lot more, that's just the immediate things....
F*CKING RAAAAAGE.
Some of the highlights so far from my reading. For added value I shall write them in "Wardspeak".
"We'll hide the moon Titan in the warp from the gods of the warp because Malcador is a more powerful psyker than Tzeentch so he won't find it and then the GKs have an invisible psy-moon because they are awesome".
"Nobody can know of the GK's at all, even other marines, so everybody ever gets their memories wiped after meeting them (and Marine chapters totally agree to this because they love the GKs even though they don't know about them)"
"To help make ourselves immune to daemonic power (even though we already are anyway according to this very same book) we will murder many sisters of battle and bathe in their blood because that is really pure and then Khorne daemons can't touch us because they hate the blood"
"Grand Master Drago is so hard he wrestles Mortarion (yes, the daemon PRIMARCH) to the floor and carves his name into him to mark him as his bitch, and then Mortarion has to run away"
"GK's are so hard Thawn gets eaten by a Great Unclean One then kills his way out from the inside, and Thawn actually can't die like ever because FATE"
"Drago now lies in the warp and has killed thousands of daemons and greater daemons on his own and is totally invulnerable to the chaos gods who can't stop him and he has even destroyed Tzeentchs whole castle once and Slaaneshs realm lolz"
"Brotherhood champions are so psychic when they die their armour brings them back to life just long enough to kill their killer, and because they are dead it's unstoppable so they can kill like any bad guy at all!"
"Paladins are so awesome that to be one you have to kill 4 daemon heralds and their other daemons unarmed and armoured, then kill one of the biggest greater daemons ever alone, which they can do because only pussies need armour"
"All GKS are totally 100% pure because of the emperor, but Purifiers are more pure, and Crowe is MORE more pure. So he's like, 200% pure, which is awesome"
There's a lot more, that's just the immediate things....
F*CKING RAAAAAGE.
90% of this is exaggeration. Re-read the codex without your nerd-rage glasses on and it comes across exactly as most fluff should: fantastical, slightly over the top, but *cool*.
The purifier part is actually correct.... They are somehow more pure.... Than pure?
Drago yeah thats correct.
Thawn just is a justicar which i am fine with.
That lore sounds exaggerated.
Some of the highlights so far from my reading. For added value I shall write them in "Wardspeak".
"We'll hide the moon Titan in the warp from the gods of the warp because Malcador is a more powerful psyker than Tzeentch so he won't find it and then the GKs have an invisible psy-moon because they are awesome".
"Nobody can know of the GK's at all, even other marines, so everybody ever gets their memories wiped after meeting them (and Marine chapters totally agree to this because they love the GKs even though they don't know about them)"
"To help make ourselves immune to daemonic power (even though we already are anyway according to this very same book) we will murder many sisters of battle and bathe in their blood because that is really pure and then Khorne daemons can't touch us because they hate the blood"
"Grand Master Drago is so hard he wrestles Mortarion (yes, the daemon PRIMARCH) to the floor and carves his name into him to mark him as his bitch, and then Mortarion has to run away"
"GK's are so hard Thawn gets eaten by a Great Unclean One then kills his way out from the inside, and Thawn actually can't die like ever because FATE"
"Drago now lies in the warp and has killed thousands of daemons and greater daemons on his own and is totally invulnerable to the chaos gods who can't stop him and he has even destroyed Tzeentchs whole castle once and Slaaneshs realm lolz"
"Brotherhood champions are so psychic when they die their armour brings them back to life just long enough to kill their killer, and because they are dead it's unstoppable so they can kill like any bad guy at all!"
"Paladins are so awesome that to be one you have to kill 4 daemon heralds and their other daemons unarmed and armoured, then kill one of the biggest greater daemons ever alone, which they can do because only pussies need armour"
"All GKS are totally 100% pure because of the emperor, but Purifiers are more pure, and Crowe is MORE more pure. So he's like, 200% pure, which is awesome"
There's a lot more, that's just the immediate things....
F*CKING RAAAAAGE.
You left out how Drago has been lost in the warp since he was much, much lower in rank, and has been lost so long that none of the other Grey Knights recognize him, but while he was gone he's been promoted to Grand Master, without them even knowing he was still alive, and had more or less presumed him dead. How the feth does THAT work?
While I grant Tzeench is not omniscient, one would HOPE that he would look to see what was going on in an area the size of a star system he was having the majority of his forces invade and notice an oddity like, say, An entire moon appearing out of no where in the warp. Frankly, if Malcador could cloak a planetary object from the ruinous powers, why didn't he do that to Terra instead? I think that it would have gone a long way toward helping out when the Traitor Legions showed up.
Oh, and, what exactly is the point of keeping the Grey Knights so secret that you conduct Exterminatus on planets to conceal their existence? And if it's policy to mind wipe and/or kill anyone who's met or even seen a Grey Knight, why do the Ultramarines still exist? It's not liek the Ruinous Powers are not aware of their existence when they do things like Blow up Tzeench's place or burn the Gardens of Nurgle to the Ground.
Alot of chapters have met the grey knights and have conducted research with them and killed with them. Hell there is a ton of fluff surrounding Grey Knights teaming up with Astrates to kill a Daemon Incrusion because sometimes their are chaos space marines there in huge numbers and the grey knights need some astrates to help.
They come and fight together.
The Grey Knights aren't really secretive as they helped out the Space Wolves in the first War of Armaggeddon. Then the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Storm Crusaders, Wanderers, and etc. Yeah every old space marine chapter have met the grey knights. And know of them but only say that they are a brother chapter.
Before this matt ward incidient I considered the Grey Knights, just chivalry knights. They may have mind wipes, but they don't always use them. Example Space Wolves and a ton of other chapters. Blood Ravens even know they exist...
I can say though, Matt Ward is worse than C.S. Goto.
Goto is better than this guy....
...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...
....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.
FITZZ wrote: ...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...
....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.
FITZZ wrote: ...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...
....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.
FITZZ wrote: ...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...
....It's really simple guys....GW is not the same company it was 10 or 15 years ago...for the most part they don't care about "fluff inconsistancy" ...what they care about is getting people to open their wallets and pony up for the latest shiny new toys....that's it...period.
...Not really trying to debate how GW does business...(though I think it's found wanting),just saying that ,by and large.people can rant and rave until their heads explode...and sign petitions from now until doomsday...but at the GW home offices...the phone is off the hook.
Platuan4th wrote:I think people are forgetting what the word fluff means in this context:
No, that is not what "fluff" means in this context.
Without the fluff 40k is nothing.
agreed.
Agreed.
You know what I hope? Short of him being fired, Matt Ward writing the Chaos Space Marine Codex. His job is to make the army sound badass enough so they can sell lots of them..... What is he going to do for Chaos now that Mortarion has had a named carved into his CHEST!
I kinda like that the GK used alien tech Cause it seems reasonable.
Really didn't like the whole carving his name on mortarions heart thing.
As for the rest I thought it was not the worst and like all the rest of the dexs simply made out that the subject of this dex is the best ever and can pwn anyone.(exept maybe guard who admit that guardsmen suck)
And also I really don't get the whole Draigo being in the warp thing(I really like his name tho =])
You know, after reading Draigo's fluff he seems like a super badass....
But last night two squads of Helio's XV8's + a Aurora'El commander shot at him and his paladins.... killed 4... leadership... and then escorted him off the table.
So like... if Draigo can carve his name into Morties chest... and my little Shas'El can make Draigo run away...
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.
Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.
Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.
So's Risk, what's your point? Games don't require story to be played, interesting, or popular.
Hell, the reason a lot of players outside the internet don't get the Blood Angels/Necrons jokes is because fewer people than you think actually read the books past the rules.
Humbaba wrote:The one other thing I really hate is the part where the grey knights mind wipe/kill everyone who sees them
That's nothing new, actually. That was mentioned in the last book and the Index Astartes article prior to that.
Hell, there's a whole Apoc Formation about it, too.
Even in 2nd ed, the Ordo Malleus killed all IG and civilians who have contact with Daemons and try to mindwipe all Marines that contact them, too. They not only don't want the infection spreading, they don't even want WORD of Daemons existing spreading.
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.
Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.
So's Risk, what's your point? Games don't require story to be played, interesting, or popular.
Hell, the reason a lot of players outside the internet don't get the Blood Angels/Necrons jokes is because fewer people than you think actually read the books past the rules.
Actually risk does have a story line. It is based on the Revoultion.
Asherian Command wrote: Actually risk does have a story line. It is based on the Revoultion.
How is a game about world domination based on the Revolution? Also where is this supposed story? It's not on the box or in the book or on the official website(I own 3 different versions of the basic version, BTW, none of which mention this).
The game was originally named La Conquete du Monde(Conquest of the World), BTW. No mention of the Revolution there.
From the official site:
"About 50 years ago, an award winning French film maker Albert Lamorisse created a revolutionary game he called: La Conquete du Monde - loosely translated. "Conquest of the World." Two years later, in 1959, Parker Brothers published the game we all came to know and love as RISK.
RISK was absolutely unique because it introduced groundbreaking game concepts. It was the first board game to offer non-linear movement - that was crazy thinking back then. Although the rules were simple enough, the strategies required to win the game were not. RISK pushed the envelope and remained unmatched by any other game on the shelf; quickly becoming a phenomenon with millions of copies sold throughout the world. "
Ya IK but I still don't like it. Knowledge is power right, so people should be told about the threat of daemons.
That way, if they know what daemons to to their "followers" they might not try to create chaos cults
and therefor wont summon daemons who end up killing them anyway.
also I think it would be ridiculously hard to keep the knowledge of a galaxy spanning organization
from leaking. and really what diff would it make. I am pretty sure daemons already know about GKs.
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
The reason that GW hates it when you refer to it as fluff is because they want you to believe that it isn't anything other than fluff to make their game seem deeper or more interesting, but that's really all the story is. Yes, the story is interesting, but it isn't required for the GAME.
Actually Melissia has it right alot of people would quit 40k. Because without the fluff 40k isn't 40k its just a stupid wargame with no plot and just two forces killing each other.
Most people who start 40K quit anyway. GW's business model is to churn teen boys.
Out of veterans, some of them love the fluff, some of them ignore the fluff, and some of them find the fluff mildly amusing.
Humbaba wrote:Ya IK but I still don't like it. Knowledge is power right, so people should be told about the threat of daemons.
That way, if they know what daemons to to their "followers" they might not try to create chaos cults
and therefor wont summon daemons who end up killing them anyway.
also I think it would be ridiculously hard to keep the knowledge of a galaxy spanning organization
from leaking. and really what diff would it make. I am pretty sure daemons already know about GKs.
I must say I had imagined that the whole IoM from pre-school to pensioners' home was on constant lookout for incursions of Chaos, it being their no.1 enemy, the most important event in history, etc. I'm quite surprised that the GK have managed to suppress all knowledge of it. They must have worked very hard because each one of them has to cover 1,000 planets.
The lore is the only thing that makes 40k worth paying attention to.
You will never convince me otherwise-- I am a roleplayer at heart, and have always been. In fact, Dark Heresy is probably the main reason that I'm still interested in 40k right now.
Without the lore, 40k is nothing but a half-assed ruleset with half-assed unbalanced armies and half-assed overpriced and frequently unattractive miniatures. With the lore, it is an extremely memorable setting with powerful themes, epic battles, and infinite potential for interesting stories. You can toss the lore aside all you want, it is your loss-- but without it, 40k is less than snake gak.
Slarg232 wrote:
You know what I hope? Short of him being fired, Matt Ward writing the Chaos Space Marine Codex. His job is to make the army sound badass enough so they can sell lots of them..... What is he going to do for Chaos now that Mortarion has had a named carved into his CHEST!
I'd be happy with Matt Ward writing the CSM codex and turning our dreadnoughts into invincible killing machines with lascannon shooting blissgivers protruding from all 8 sides of the Bagua, berzerkers into powerweaponed, powerarmoured genestealers with I7, fleet and reroll fails to hit, plague marines into 23 point dreadnoughts, thousand sons into lords of change with 4 AP1 doombolts a turn, each, and no psychic tests, defilers with 14AP all around and twin linked battlecannons, 'SupaReapa' Chaos Autocannons (St9 Heavy 4 AP 2, of course), bloodthirsters with fleet, furious charge, FNP, flying, and a 2++, Demonic flying land raiders with BS 5, dual twin linked multimelta non scattering obliterators, chaos chimeras and razorbacks made of the stuff of pure chaos and has 4++ save to all penetrating hits, fluff where abaddon comes to terra on a flying carpet, bats the custodes with the broken, limp, corpse of Rouboute Guilliman while Kharn and Fabius Bile play outfield, proceeds to the Golden Throne, drops trou, and lays a Cleveland Steamer on the Emperor's lap before tap dancing back to the warp whilst singing 'Hello! Ma Baby' with an a capella accompaniment of five bloodletters beatboxing a drum and bass groove while a choir of demonettes sing a catchy hook.
Yeah, I could live with Matt Ward writing one more codex.
The lore is the only thing that makes 40k worth paying attention to.
You will never convince me otherwise-- I am a roleplayer at heart, and have always been. In fact, Dark Heresy is probably the main reason that I'm still interested in 40k right now.
Without the lore, 40k is nothing but a half-assed ruleset with half-assed unbalanced armies and half-assed overpriced and frequently unattractive miniatures. With the lore, it is an extremely memorable setting with powerful themes, epic battles, and infinite potential for interesting stories. You can toss the lore aside all you want, it is your loss-- but without it, 40k is less than snake gak.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the fluff and will discuss fluff all day with those people I play with(and people on the internet) that also love the fluff. I too am a role-player at heart and most of my armies(not my BA, they got built purely because I love the Dreadnought model) are built around the fluff I write for the army.
However, for most people the game itself works just fine without any story. The fluff is just that: fluff that makes the game about more than just rules.
And it appears this discussion is being held in 2 threads, as well.
Didn't you guys hear? Matt ward used the tardis to travel back in time through the warp to invent the tardis and the warp and generally mess with stuff... AM I DOIN ET RITE MATT!!!11!!1
Slarg232 wrote:
You know what I hope? Short of him being fired, Matt Ward writing the Chaos Space Marine Codex. His job is to make the army sound badass enough so they can sell lots of them..... What is he going to do for Chaos now that Mortarion has had a named carved into his CHEST!
I'd be happy with Matt Ward writing the CSM codex and turning our dreadnoughts into invincible killing machines with lascannon shooting blissgivers protruding from all 8 sides of the Bagua, berzerkers into powerweaponed, powerarmoured genestealers with I7, fleet and reroll fails to hit, plague marines into 23 point dreadnoughts, thousand sons into lords of change with 4 AP1 doombolts a turn, each, and no psychic tests, defilers with 14AP all around and twin linked battlecannons, 'SupaReapa' Chaos Autocannons (St9 Heavy 4 AP 2, of course), bloodthirsters with fleet, furious charge, FNP, flying, and a 2++, Demonic flying land raiders with BS 5, dual twin linked multimelta non scattering obliterators, chaos chimeras and razorbacks made of the stuff of pure chaos and has 4++ save to all penetrating hits, fluff where abaddon comes to terra on a flying carpet, bats the custodes with the broken, limp, corpse of Rouboute Guilliman while Kharn and Fabius Bile play outfield, proceeds to the Golden Throne, drops trou, and lays a Cleveland Steamer on the Emperor's lap before tap dancing back to the warp whilst singing 'Hello! Ma Baby' with an a capella accompaniment of five bloodletters beatboxing a drum and bass groove while a choir of demonettes sing a catchy hook.
Yeah, I could live with Matt Ward writing one more codex.
Some of those things don't sound horribly outrageous
It wouldn't be that crazy to think that we might see a couple things similar to what he's done with GK. Some sort of HQ that unlocks Traitors as Troops choices (that doesn't use up FOC), and some sort of guy who allows you to summon daemons from him (like a WWP) would be cool additions to an otherwise 'spiky' marine codex :3
The lore is the only thing that makes 40k worth paying attention to.
You will never convince me otherwise-- I am a roleplayer at heart, and have always been. In fact, Dark Heresy is probably the main reason that I'm still interested in 40k right now.
Without the lore, 40k is nothing but a half-assed ruleset with half-assed unbalanced armies and half-assed overpriced and frequently unattractive miniatures. With the lore, it is an extremely memorable setting with powerful themes, epic battles, and infinite potential for interesting stories. You can toss the lore aside all you want, it is your loss-- but without it, 40k is less than snake gak.
Pretty much have to agree with Melissia here...with out the fluff 40k basicly devolves into nothing more than an assembly line of optimized,waac,plastic pieces.
Although the fluff is not strictly necessary I feel that without it
this game would suck. The fluff is what got me into this game and the fluff is why I love it.
I quit 40K for about 8 months because the game ceased to hold my attention. This wasn't helped by the fact I play Necrons, and in my 2 years of gaming have only won 2 games, but I just found the system boring.
I came back for the fluff. The games are a means to an end for me now, I'm mainly interested in the story. I don't like my Necrons teaming up with Tyranids in a 2v2 because it defies fluff, I don't like watching IG fight SM. The fluff for 40K used to be epic, and I loved it. Matt Ward is single-handedly sucking away the only reason I play this game.
Humbaba wrote:Although the fluff is not strictly necessary I feel that without it
this game would suck. The fluff is what got me into this game and the fluff is why I love it.
Agreed. The fluff is the main reason I play 40k and not war machine.
Melissia wrote:Without the lore, 40k is nothing but a half-assed ruleset with half-assed unbalanced armies and half-assed overpriced and frequently unattractive miniatures. With the lore, it is an extremely memorable setting with powerful themes, epic battles, and infinite potential for interesting stories. You can toss the lore aside all you want, it is your loss-- but without it, 40k is less than snake gak.
This doesn't happen often, but yeah, Melissia's bang on the money here.
40K as a game is considerably sub-par, where selling more models has become more important than making as good a game as they can make. Without its lore it would be worthless.
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
Brother SRM wrote:The GK/Mat Ward stuff has gotten to be a bit much in my opinion.
Yeah, I know exactly how you felt. Just another typical nerdrage train with everyone piling on, I thought when I first saw the Mattrage popping up like worms after a rain.
Then I actually read some of the GK fluff. That guy is terrible. I don't understand how this is getting approved by whatever committee or editor they have.
Brother SRM wrote:Doesn't mean you have to play that army, and if you want to you can skip over the wackier stuff. Whatevs.
The damage he has done to some of the more recent codexes is hardly going to be limited to the people who have to play them. Sure, you can ignore the fluff, but you can't ignore the fact you're now going to be playing against deep striking land raiders and other sundry nonsense.
Yeah I'm with Melissia on this as well, been playing 40K for nigh on 23yrs. Seriously, without the background and the rich story to keep me interested I'd be long gone.
It's why I thought MageKnight was utter rubbish, but totally adored Marvel based Heroclix. Both play very similar, same style of game, but one has the deep rich backstory of you playing with the characters of the Marvel universe. The other is a random world with little to no actually unique or interesting ideas.
If GW turned around tomorrow and said, background means nothing, its 99% about the game now, I'd be gone.
Hell I've done it before. With the WoD, I thought Werewolf the Apocalypse, Vampire the Masquerade etc had some of the most interesting Horror Vamp/Were ideas in recent times.
Then they shift to nwod, focus more on a stronger ruleset, drop the metaplot to a bare minimum, and I was out of a setting I'd collected for nearly 11yrs spending thousands on, in less than a year.
This stuff about the GK fluff shocked me enough that today I went out and read the Codex. Here are the major holes I found (Don't unspoiler if you don't want to be crying yourself to sleep tonight):
Spoiler:
1. Malcador transported an entire moon into the Warp and anchored it there, bcos hes majik. 2. Grey Knights use alien allies regularly, and alien technology. They don't get blueprints and recreate it, they just ask nicely. 3. The Grey Knights yanked a moon of Mars out of its orbit and put it in orbit around Titan. Just 'cos. 4. Grey Knights are such a secret that they are prepared to kill more people to preserve their secrecy than the Daemons that they slew could have possibly done themselves. If Guardsmen ask the Imperium for help against Daemons, and Grey Knights arrive, the Grey Knights will execute each and every Guardsmen from that planet. This could extend to an Exterminatus. 5. In a battle for Armageddon, they mindwiped hundreds of Space Wolves, if not every Space Wolf, killed everyone on 3 entire planets and blew 12 IG troopships out of the sky to ensure that they're still a secret. And killed 20 Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Navy listening stations on the offchance they got wind that something was up. 6. In an attempt to kill Tzeentch's Changeling, they evacuated the planet and banished all the Daemons. However, they realised that the Changeling must have gotten away on a refugee ship, so they destroyed all the refugees, thus making their saving of the planet utterly futile. 7. It is mentioned that Sisters of Battle turned to Chaos, even though it has been stated on more than one occassion in the past that in the entire history of the Sisters only one ever turned to Chaos, and that was only after a long time anyway. This is probably the easiest to swallow as it is simple retcon, but still. 8. Some SoB tried to fight off Daemon forces and couldn't manage it. Some turned to Chaos, most remained loyal. The Grey Knights arrived and the first thing they did was slaughter every single remaining Sister and smeared their blood on their armour in an attempt to keep Daemons away. 9. Draigo carved the name of his predecessor on a Daemon Primarch's heart. 10. Commander Dante agreed to let the Grey Knights mindwipe the entire Blood Angels after they had to ally against Chaos. 11. The Grey Knights couldn't win a 3-way battle between themselves, Tyranids and Daemons, so they ordered the temple they were fighting in to be bombarded from orbit, but survived the barrage bombs because their armour is so good.
Not happy right now. To avoid intellectual property claims, please, all credit to the outstanding writing that I paraphrased in this post goes to Matt Ward. I wouldn't wish to deny him any of the glory of his magnificent codex.
Brother SRM wrote:Doesn't mean you have to play that army, and if you want to you can skip over the wackier stuff. Whatevs.
The damage he has done to some of the more recent codexes is hardly going to be limited to the people who have to play them. Sure, you can ignore the fluff, but you can't ignore the fact you're now going to be playing against deep striking land raiders and other sundry nonsense.
This is the problem, it's not like you can just ignore it. You can avoid reading the codex that you don't want to but eventually you are going to have to play someone who is using new avoided shiny codex of death and you're going to be like .. is that even in there, how can that be allowed ?!?!?!
The fluff that Ward has written doesn't just effect the respective armies that he has written the codex for ... I mean Necron Lords high fiving Blood Angels for an excellent double teaming on the Tyranids, First founding Chapters leg Humping Guilliman other than the Ultramarines because he's the absolute bestest. None of this is good, some of what made the races that race is being taken away from them and changing them into something that they should never ever be.
I know things have to change, but a little consistency and adherence to some of the already well established fluff would be appreciated.
But yeah I went into GW on the 1st April and saw the Grey Knights codex and was like read it and was like then remembering the date. I asked my buddy at the store if someone had swapped the inside with some fanfic and he was all and then I
Not a true story but in the Warp Matt Ward laughed
Scarey Nerd wrote:This stuff about the GK fluff shocked me enough that today I went out and read the Codex. Here are the major holes I found (Don't unspoiler if you don't want to be crying yourself to sleep tonight):
Spoiler:
1. Malcador transported an entire moon into the Warp and anchored it there, bcos hes majik.
2. Grey Knights use alien allies regularly, and alien technology. They don't get blueprints and recreate it, they just ask nicely.
3. The Grey Knights yanked a moon of Mars out of its orbit and put it in orbit around Titan. Just 'cos.
4. Grey Knights are such a secret that they are prepared to kill more people to preserve their secrecy than the Daemons that they slew could have possibly done themselves. If Guardsmen ask the Imperium for help against Daemons, and Grey Knights arrive, the Grey Knights will execute each and every Guardsmen from that planet. This could extend to an Exterminatus.
5. In a battle for Armageddon, they mindwiped hundreds of Space Wolves, if not every Space Wolf, killed everyone on 3 entire planets and blew 12 IG troopships out of the sky to ensure that they're still a secret. And killed 20 Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Navy listening stations on the offchance they got wind that something was up.
6. In an attempt to kill Tzeentch's Changeling, they evacuated the planet and banished all the Daemons. However, they realised that the Changeling must have gotten away on a refugee ship, so they destroyed all the refugees, thus making their saving of the planet utterly futile.
7. It is mentioned that Sisters of Battle turned to Chaos, even though it has been stated on more than one occassion in the past that in the entire history of the Sisters only one ever turned to Chaos, and that was only after a long time anyway. This is probably the easiest to swallow as it is simple retcon, but still.
8. Some SoB tried to fight off Daemon forces and couldn't manage it. Some turned to Chaos, most remained loyal. The Grey Knights arrived and the first thing they did was slaughter every single remaining Sister and smeared their blood on their armour in an attempt to keep Daemons away.
9. Draigo carved the name of his predecessor on a Daemon Primarch's heart.
10. Commander Dante agreed to let the Grey Knights mindwipe the entire Blood Angels after they had to ally against Chaos.
11. The Grey Knights couldn't win a 3-way battle between themselves, Tyranids and Daemons, so they ordered the temple they were fighting in to be bombarded from orbit, but survived the barrage bombs because their armour is so good.
Not happy right now. To avoid intellectual property claims, please, all credit to the outstanding writing that I paraphrased in this post goes to Matt Ward. I wouldn't wish to deny him any of the glory of his magnificent codex.
In a wonderful twist of irony i'm personally denying even the existence of GK's and this codex....
Grimtuff wrote:In a wonderful twist of irony i'm personally denying even the existence of GK's and this codex....
Then you might be spared the wrath of Draigo. Or he'll exterminatus Terra because he's realised the Emperor knows about the Grey Knights. 'Bout 50/50 really.
I am honestly not going to believe what has been written here until I see this codex for myself because this sounds Way to outrageous. I knew about the heart carving on Mortarion..., but some of this other stuff? No
Scarey Nerd wrote:This stuff about the GK fluff shocked me enough that today I went out and read the Codex. Here are the major holes I found (Don't unspoiler if you don't want to be crying yourself to sleep tonight):
Spoiler:
1. Malcador transported an entire moon into the Warp and anchored it there, bcos hes majik.
2. Grey Knights use alien allies regularly, and alien technology. They don't get blueprints and recreate it, they just ask nicely.
3. The Grey Knights yanked a moon of Mars out of its orbit and put it in orbit around Titan. Just 'cos.
4. Grey Knights are such a secret that they are prepared to kill more people to preserve their secrecy than the Daemons that they slew could have possibly done themselves. If Guardsmen ask the Imperium for help against Daemons, and Grey Knights arrive, the Grey Knights will execute each and every Guardsmen from that planet. This could extend to an Exterminatus.
5. In a battle for Armageddon, they mindwiped hundreds of Space Wolves, if not every Space Wolf, killed everyone on 3 entire planets and blew 12 IG troopships out of the sky to ensure that they're still a secret. And killed 20 Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Navy listening stations on the offchance they got wind that something was up.
6. In an attempt to kill Tzeentch's Changeling, they evacuated the planet and banished all the Daemons. However, they realised that the Changeling must have gotten away on a refugee ship, so they destroyed all the refugees, thus making their saving of the planet utterly futile.
7. It is mentioned that Sisters of Battle turned to Chaos, even though it has been stated on more than one occassion in the past that in the entire history of the Sisters only one ever turned to Chaos, and that was only after a long time anyway. This is probably the easiest to swallow as it is simple retcon, but still.
8. Some SoB tried to fight off Daemon forces and couldn't manage it. Some turned to Chaos, most remained loyal. The Grey Knights arrived and the first thing they did was slaughter every single remaining Sister and smeared their blood on their armour in an attempt to keep Daemons away.
9. Draigo carved the name of his predecessor on a Daemon Primarch's heart.
10. Commander Dante agreed to let the Grey Knights mindwipe the entire Blood Angels after they had to ally against Chaos.
11. The Grey Knights couldn't win a 3-way battle between themselves, Tyranids and Daemons, so they ordered the temple they were fighting in to be bombarded from orbit, but survived the barrage bombs because their armour is so good.
Not happy right now. To avoid intellectual property claims, please, all credit to the outstanding writing that I paraphrased in this post goes to Matt Ward. I wouldn't wish to deny him any of the glory of his magnificent codex.
Wow! These guys sound pure Baaad Aaaaassss Grimdark(tm).
Wiping out several star systems to ensure you remain totally unnoticed by everyone is Hot Diggetty!
It's amazing they could do all this with only 1,000 staff members. They must practically breathe methedrine.
Azure wrote:I am honestly not going to believe what has been written here until I see this codex for myself because this sounds Way to outrageous. I knew about the heart carving on Mortarion..., but some of this other stuff? No
Absolutely no exaggeration, no lies, no misleading out-of-context quotes. This is what has been written by M. Night Ward.
Scary Nerd... it is with horror in my heart, and tears in my eyes, that I confirm what you say. In fact, I think you may have left out some of the more ridiculous stuff in that codex. When first he mentioned the Necrons I was terrified, but they've been left well enough alone, for now. As for those who liked the GK's of the past, you have my sympathies.
Azure wrote:Scary Nerd... it is with horror in my heart, and tears in my eyes, that I confirm what you say. In fact, I think you may have left out some of the more ridiculous stuff in that codex. When first he mentioned the Necrons I was terrified, but they've been left well enough alone, for now. As for those who liked the GK's of the past, you have my sympathies.
I was the same as you, when I saw the word Necron my heart leapt into my mouth and I couldn't bring myself to read the passage, I left it till near the end to spare myself. It was basically just "You know the World Engine? Well, there was another one, and GK might have blowed it up, but we don't know." Hopefully if he's written this then that means Robin or Phil are writing Necrons, despite the prevalent rumours to the contrary.
Wait a second the space wolves have that in their records talking about their service with grey knights THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
The entire thing about them killing so many is so stupid.
Now I will deny the existance of this fluff. And not only this but this is contradicting all of the current lore in the space wolf and the first war of Armageddon which was made a few months ago...
Azure wrote:I am honestly not going to believe what has been written here until I see this codex for myself because this sounds Way to outrageous. I knew about the heart carving on Mortarion..., but some of this other stuff? No
This is what I thought, until I read it! Since then, I've had a loop in my mind going from Dogma when I think of it.
He begged me to take it back, as if I could. He begged me to make it all not true. And I'll let you in on something, Bethany, this is something I've never told anyone before... If I had the power, I would have.
I've seen the horror of the internet, the depravity of people who are fueled by nothing but hate, the creations of things that barely remain humans as their minds are so lost in a constant tumult of destruction, the list of things that cannot be unseen goes on for ages, but I can say, in all honesty, that nothing compares to what I have found within the depths of that codex. The most far out-reaching fan fictions have nothing on it. I say this not out of rage or loathing of Mr. Ward, but I do wish upon his editors a fate that would make Khorne cringe.
You Know I laugh at the fact that everyone that has read the codex now regrets doing that, and everyone who has not bought the codex is in doubts.... So Does this show anything? like the codex failed?
You know what I hope? Short of him being fired, Matt Ward writing the Chaos Space Marine Codex. His job is to make the army sound badass enough so they can sell lots of them..... What is he going to do for Chaos now that Mortarion has had a named carved into his CHEST!
It's simple. Tzeentch is the emporer, and carved his secret powah symbol into the armour of every astartes legion.
Bullockist wrote:
What is he going to do for Chaos now that Mortarion has had a named carved into his CHEST!
You know what the worst part of this that truly bugs me. Morty is well established as being all emo and just sitting on the Plague Planet having modelled it to look like Barabus from the days of yore.
So....
Either Morty is now making war in realspace like Angry Ron etc. thus making Typhus' existence pointless. His whole schtick is he's spreading Nurgles pestilence as Morty won't do it due to being emo and all and just moping around in the EOT.
OR
Draigo (and his predecessor) both have found their way into the EOT and laid the smackdown on the Plague Planet.
This is just more of GW ruining for me their hobby universes. First, they change and separate my Chaos fantasy army forcing me to either buy more models or start a new faction altogether. Second, they change my Chaos Space Marine codex into a bland shadow of it's former self, claiming that the things it had weren't balanced or fair to other armies. They then put most of what they took from Chaos and put it in the new Space Marines codex (does that make them unbalanced and not fair to other armies?). And with this last stroke of malice, they take away my hope for a revived Ordo Hereticus codex. I was hoping my interest in 40K would increase after they refresh my Sisters of Battle, but if the last few books are any indication, they'll just anger me further. I tried playing Orks as i could play them without caring, just run around shooting and hitting things until my or my opponant's armies were dead, but even that couldn't get me to enjoy the game like i used to. I won't write any letters or create forum threads about how much i hate anyone, i'll just sell off my armies and fund my warmachine forces. Thier fluff is at least coherant and enjoyable.
I'm rather distressed that Jokaero have been reduced to enslaved poo-flinging monkeys despite the fact...err...previous fiction that they could not be enslaved, bartered with or even communicated with...
But the whole using Daemon Swords, nun-killing, Titan hiding...I just want to throw up. I haven't read the entire fluff section and now I'm not going to. I will INSIST to my gaming group that it simply does not exist. It didn't happen. All I need are the stats and the army list and only because I want to be able to play 40k with my friends after 10 years of not having a 'legal' fieldable army.
Maxim C. Gatling wrote:I'm rather distressed that Jokaero have been reduced to enslaved poo-flinging monkeys despite the fact...err...previous fiction that they could not be enslaved, bartered with or even communicated with...
But the whole using Daemon Swords, nun-killing, Titan hiding...I just want to throw up. I haven't read the entire fluff section and now I'm not going to. I will INSIST to my gaming group that it simply does not exist. It didn't happen. All I need are the stats and the army list and only because I want to be able to play 40k with my friends after 10 years of not having a 'legal' fieldable army.
Indeed. And welcome to Dakka, Mr Gatling. You will find things... very different here.... when compared to the FFG forums.
Maxim C. Gatling wrote:I'm rather distressed that Jokaero have been reduced to enslaved poo-flinging monkeys despite the fact...err...previous fiction that they could not be enslaved, bartered with or even communicated with...
But the whole using Daemon Swords, nun-killing, Titan hiding...I just want to throw up. I haven't read the entire fluff section and now I'm not going to. I will INSIST to my gaming group that it simply does not exist. It didn't happen. All I need are the stats and the army list and only because I want to be able to play 40k with my friends after 10 years of not having a 'legal' fieldable army.
Indeed. And welcome to Dakka, Mr Gatling. You will find things... very different here.... when compared to the FFG forums.
Thanks for the welcome. Indeed I do. I find the FFG forums being for WH40kRPG's are a bit more ...shall we say, open-minded on fluff issues, which isn't always a good thing. Let's not bring up the "Women in 40k" topic though, shall we?
Maxim C. Gatling wrote:Thanks for the welcome. Indeed I do. I find the FFG forums being for WH40kRPG's are a bit more ...shall we say, open-minded on fluff issues, which isn't always a good thing. Let's not bring up the "Women in 40k" topic though, shall we?
There already is one somewhere on this page, let's avoid it like the plague
Maxim C. Gatling wrote:Thanks for the welcome. Indeed I do. I find the FFG forums being for WH40kRPG's are a bit more ...shall we say, open-minded on fluff issues, which isn't always a good thing. Let's not bring up the "Women in 40k" topic though, shall we?
There already is one somewhere on this page, let's avoid it like the plague
Surprisingly, it's been a civilized discussion. Though it's been observed that femmarines are actually less offensive to established fluff then this most recent codex.
Asherian Command wrote:You Know I laugh at the fact that everyone that has read the codex now regrets doing that, and everyone who has not bought the codex is in doubts.... So Does this show anything? like the codex failed?
It shows that millions of people like the codex so much they are reading and re-reading it and haven't got time to go on DakkaDakka.
Asherian Command wrote:You Know I laugh at the fact that everyone that has read the codex now regrets doing that, and everyone who has not bought the codex is in doubts.... So Does this show anything? like the codex failed?
It shows that millions of people like the codex so much they are reading and re-reading it and haven't got time to go on DakkaDakka.
Millions of sales does not a good author make. Case in point: Dan Brown.
Bull. The rules don't require ANY back story to be playable, and as I pointed out, there ARE people who ignore it entirely and could care less about it existing that DO play.
Asherian Command wrote:You Know I laugh at the fact that everyone that has read the codex now regrets doing that, and everyone who has not bought the codex is in doubts.... So Does this show anything? like the codex failed?
It shows that millions of people like the codex so much they are reading and re-reading it and haven't got time to go on DakkaDakka.
Millions of sales does not a good author make. Case in point: Dan Brown.
Or the person that wrote twilight. Not good books.
Asherian Command wrote:You Know I laugh at the fact that everyone that has read the codex now regrets doing that, and everyone who has not bought the codex is in doubts.... So Does this show anything? like the codex failed?
It shows that millions of people like the codex so much they are reading and re-reading it and haven't got time to go on DakkaDakka.
Millions of sales does not a good author make. Case in point: Dan Brown.
Or the person that wrote twilight. Not good books.
Her name's Stephanie Meyer and you got massively Ninja'd by Murdock.
Asherian Command wrote:You Know I laugh at the fact that everyone that has read the codex now regrets doing that, and everyone who has not bought the codex is in doubts.... So Does this show anything? like the codex failed?
It shows that millions of people like the codex so much they are reading and re-reading it and haven't got time to go on DakkaDakka.
Millions of sales does not a good author make. Case in point: Dan Brown.
Or the person that wrote twilight. Not good books.
Her name's Stephanie Meyer and you got massively Ninja'd by Murdock.
I did nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Well I can think of one more.... Kafka! His stories are so depressing....
am I the only gu who finds it too much of a coincidence that Jervis made an article this month about "Murdering your Darlings" which he surmised as: if you write something and think it's the best thing you've ever written, combining a lovely turn of phrase with profound insight, you should take your red pen and strike it out, as it is almost certainly self-indulgent nonsense that fails to drive the story along. In other words, you've written it to make yourself feel clever, rather than because the story really needs it.
I find that the Grey Knights Codex fails in that regard constantly.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:GW has pulled off some good APril Fools gags in the past but I have to say this year's take the cake. I'm in NY for the weekend and stopped at my old FLGS (COmpleat Strategist on 33rd and 5th Ave).
There they had a brand new Codex. Now I suppose I should have checked the calendar but I didn't so I paid my $29 and dug into it.
They really had me going for a minute there, Daemon Hosts and Grey Knights on the same side? C'tan Phase sword is just a power weapon? Monkeys? Filthy dirty poo throwing monkeys with las cannons and multimeltas?
I was ready to toss it against the wall when I remembered it's April 1! I guess the real one comes out tomorrow no?
Hats off GW! You got me this time!
Wow...the legendary New York store does exist! I thought it was some mafia front keeping the King of Prussia (PA) store open....
ing CHEST!!!
...I really wish Dakka had an "orkmoticon" of an Ork beating it's head against a wall...
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Unlike most of the whiners on DakkaDakka, I like 
then 
and then I 
